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Feb. 24, 1997 - Art Bell

02:46:27

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Diana Fairechild - Flying Sickness. Mel Waters - Mel's Hole Update

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01:02:42

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 24th, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, as the case may be, across all these many, many time zones from the Hawaiian and Tahitian Island chains, all the way eastward across flyover country to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north to the Pole, and worldwide on the internet.
		This is Post AM.
		I'm Martin Bell.
		Good morning.
		Cloning.
		Cloning, cloning, cloning, cloning.
		We're going to be cloning.
		I've been listening to the news reports now since the news broke about cloning.
		And one thing is absolutely obvious to me of all the interviews of all the scientists I've seen in Scotland and elsewhere.
		All of them say, yes, humans could be cloned.
		Yes, this is the technology.
		Yes, it's real.
		But they all say, but why would we want to do it?
		Am I. So, we will get to cloning tonight.
		As a matter of fact, here is a quick facts on the subject part.
		Here's a question to ask the listeners, if the mood strikes.
		If cloning of humans was a foregone conclusion, and a national vote was taken to determine who would be cloned, who would you most like to see cloned?
		See, now we're getting down to business, and who would you least want to see cloned?
		I'm interested in hearing answers.
		For the record, here's my list and why.
		Art Bell first, that way we could have an all-art network with a new art bell taking over every five hours.
		When one art got sick from airplane air, a substitute art could fill in for him.
		Ramona Bell, all those extra arts would have to have some companionship.
		Ronald Reagan, obvious reasons here.
		Thomas Jefferson, we could use the wisdom to fix the mess the country is in.
		Kathy Ireland, this one also self-explanatory.
		From Chris listening to the mighty WWTN in Nashville.
		Chris is on the right track.
		I suppose everybody's going to run around wringing their hands and asking, should we do it?
unidentified		Should we do it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it right?
		Is it wrong?
		Well, too late.
		Cat's out of the bag.
		You know, they can try and pass laws.
		Anyway, we'll get into all of this, and I am not going to take the track everybody else is going to take.
		I'm going to go in a different direction with it because I think it's a foregone conclusion.
		Hey, hey, hey, welcome to WTVNAM in Columbus, Ohio.
		610 on the dial, 5,000 regional lots all around Columbus.
		Great to have you along.
		And welcome to the network as we continue to grow, grow, grow, grow.
		Now, happy birthday.
		The diamond anniversary for WOAI, 1200 a.m. in San Antonio, Texas.
		The diamond anniversary.
		OAI, you know, is one of the nation's oldest, most venerable, and certainly most powerful radio stations, along with another many, many of the same sort that we're fortunate to have on the network, but the diamond anniversary, so happy birthday.
		WOAI I got this facts, and I don't know what to make of it.
		Today on the island of Hawaii in the Hilo area, freakish 80-mile-an-hour winds blew tops off about 200 homes.
		Say, what?
		Meteorologists have never seen this kind of wind activity in Hawaii in absence of a hurricane.
		Repeat, absence of a hurricane.
		The island of Oahu is set to receive some of the wind in about two hours.
		Could all this be a harbinger of Ed Dame's remote viewing regarding the jet stream lowering?
		I don't know.
		What would cause 80 mile per hour winds in Hawaii?
		Short of a hurricane, I have no idea what sort of dynamics could be at play there to cause this.
		All right, I'm still sick.
		You know, I'm still sick.
		And I really got sick.
		I mean, I really got sick beginning last Monday.
		Went down and tried to relax a little bit, Mazatlan, took a 757 airline unnamed because of what I'm about to do.
		And a 757 coming back, too.
		And then a 757 to Las Vegas from Los Angeles.
		And precisely seven days later, I got really, really sick.
		Now I went to China.
		I got sick.
		I went to Paris.
		I got sick.
		I went to Scandinavia.
		I got sick.
		I am sick of getting sick on airplanes.
		And I'm really sick of it.
		I was so out of it Friday night that having a good time here, you'll recall.
		By the way, we're going to have an update on the Mel Waters Infinite Hole.
		Mel's going to be back on the air around 1 o'clock or so Pacific time because there have been developments.
		Let me put it that way.
		Anyway, I was so out of it Friday night that I tried to super glue something over here and I got super glue all over my hands and it just flowed like water and like an idiot.
		You know how you go to chew it off, right?
		You know, it's a normal reaction is to pick it off with your teeth.
		So I put it up there too soon To start picking, figuring it was already dry.
		Well, it wasn't, it was still watered, the water conditioner, and I glued my lip shut.
		Well, I glued my lip shut.
		Well, not fully, it was like about like that, so I could talk about it like that, you know.
		And I went into a break and I ripped my lip apart, and a little chunk of lip was in my ashtray, and that's how sick I was.
		So out of it that I completely screwed up there, lost part of my lip.
		I don't know how long it takes for a lip to heal, but I guess I hope mine will.
		Now, I have contacted somebody who knows about airplanes because I want to know about airplanes.
		I want the real scoop on airplanes.
		Her name is Diana Fairchild, and she is in Hawaii, and she ought to know, because she's had 20 years plus, as an airline stew, for Pan Am and United Airlines.
		And so we're going to ask about that here in a few moments.
		Ask about why it is that you get sick on an airplane and how you can prevent it.
		My latest scheme, I was thinking I was going to wear an ABC mask.
		You know, one of those things like the Gulf War vets wore next time I'm on an airplane.
		Did that cause a riot?
		Because they'd, well, everybody knows what they'd probably figure you had vials of something with you.
	But I mean, it's almost to that point.
	Hacking, coughing, sneezing.
	I've never been so sick.
	And you might be able to tell, I'm a little bit angry about it.
	So, anyway, we'll talk to Diana Fairchild in Hawaii here in a couple of moments.
unidentified		It...
unidentified		It Now we take you back to the night of February 24th, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music Diana Fairchild has been an airline stewardess for a very long time.
		She is now retired.
		You know, I'm sure she couldn't even talk to us if she wasn't retired.
		Otherwise, she'd be fearing for her job.
		She has a website, and that website is on our website as a link right now.
		So if you want to know more about what you're about to hear about, go on up there and link over to Diana's website.
		It's Healthy Flying.
		Well, actually, it's not Healthy Flying.
		Let's see, what is the actual name of her website?
		Well, we'll get to that.
		Anyway, look, get up there.
		The Washington Post wrote an article about the whole Courtney Brown affair.
		It was in Sunday's Washington Post.
		You can link over to that and read the article in the Washington Post.
		It is Healthy Flying.
		I was right about that.
		So be sure you check out the Washington Post article on Courtney Brown.
		That's on the webpage right now.
		Emily Alau, who's coming on tomorrow night from Hong Kong.
		Her website, All The Way From Hong Kong, is available.
		And John Shepard, be sure you look at the Strat photos.
		He's coming up Wednesday night, Thursday morning.
		Now, to Hawaii and Diana Fairchild.
		Hi, Diana.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Thank you for calling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you for coming on the program.
		I'm still sick, Diana.
		I have been...
		I don't get colds.
		I don't get the flu.
		I go a year at a time without getting sick, but then I fly.
		And when I fly, I absolutely, without fail, every single time get sick.
		Now, you work for Pan Am?
unidentified		Yeah, Pan Am and United, 21 years total.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		21 years is a long time in an airplane.
unidentified		10 million miles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		10 million miles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What routes did you generally fly out, as a matter of curiosity?
unidentified		I started flying South America.
unidentified		Actually, my very first trip was to Rio at Carnival, and I thought, this is a great life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		And then I ended up doing a lot of polar flights to London from California.
unidentified		And then round-the-world flights, round-the-world east or around the world west, with stops in Europe, India, and Asia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty exotic stuff.
unidentified		Yeah, every eight days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Every eight days.
		A few idle questions of curiosity before we get to the meat of the matter here.
		One of them is, how long did it take?
		I mean, I've flown to a lot of those capitals myself, but when I do it, it's very exotic for a passenger who, you know, rarely gets to Europe or Asia.
		It's very exotic, but you did it all the time.
		How long does it take for the thrill to wear off?
unidentified		Oh, never, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Never?
unidentified		That's kind of good to hear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you never get to, oh, no, another trip to London.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You never get to that point.
unidentified		The last two years I was flying, I was sick most of the time.
		So from that point of view, I just didn't have a lot of energy and I didn't feel well.
		So I could say the last two years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that brings us to the meat of the matter.
		Diana, number one, why are we getting so damn sick on airliners these days?
		What's going on?
unidentified		It's a very complex situation, and it involves a number of biological and environmental factors.
		To start with, of course, is the traditional issue of time zone changes.
		When we shift time zones, our inner clock is out of sync with the outer clock.
		So all our hormonal and chemical rhythms have to change.
		And that takes a couple of days to a couple of weeks.
		And even in my research, I found that even though hormones may start secreting, they don't even reach their amplitude for six months.
		So it takes a while just for that.
		But the main thing That I started focusing on and pointing attention to.
		It's the environmental stress in the plane itself, which is a place low in air pressure, humidity, and oxygen, and high in radiation, pesticides, and germs.
		It's low in air pressure.
		In other words, it actually has the air pressure of a mountain resort.
		It's 8,000 feet in the plane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, yes, indeed.
		Everybody knows your ears pop as you rise to cruise altitude, whatever it is.
		It takes a while for you to adjust.
		So there is a different pressure, and you're saying it's like being at 8,000 feet.
unidentified		Well, people suffer from mountain sickness when they go quickly to 8,000 feet.
unidentified		We're dealing with that as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, why can they not keep the cabin pressure at, you know, ground-level norm?
unidentified		The best they can do, the way the planes are designed, is a plane at 25 to, say, 40,000 feet, the best they can do is to pressurize it to 8,000, 7,000 or 8,000 feet.
		Actually, it's illegal to pressurize it over 8,000 feet.
		But they can't fly at sea level.
		For one reason, the air is heavier at sea level, so they want it lighter, as light as possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		So they always fly at the highest interior ambient altitude that they can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they take us to 8,000 feet.
unidentified		Right.
		And so I said that the air inside is low in air pressure, humidity, and oxygen.
		So humidity, the only humidity in an airplane, there's none introduced by the cabin air conditioning.
		The only humidity is from the takeoff location and the sweat and breath of everybody on the plane.
		So on a long-range flight, like you were mentioning, I guess, to Hong Kong, and those flights, the humidity actually goes down to zero after a couple of hours.
		And that's way drier than even the Sahara Desert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, and listen, I live here in the desert, and when I have relatives who come and visit, they complain of their nose being very dry.
		You know, we have generally double-digit or even single-digit during the summer humidity, and we're used to it being very dry.
		But you're right.
		When I fly on a long-distance flight, I get totally dried out, and I live in the desert.
unidentified		It's drier than the desert, and like you, you are acclimated, but your friends and relatives come and they're not acclimated, so it's very shocking, even more shocking to them.
		So that's another environmental factor that passengers need to consider.
		And then it's low in oxygen.
		For example, I believe this statistic came out that there's twice as much oxygen mandated in U.S. prisons than they found on U.S. airplanes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
		What about the pilots?
		Are they breathing the same air the passengers are?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are they breathing?
unidentified		They get, I think, ten times more air than an economy passenger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, now, wait a minute.
		Economy.
		What about first class?
		You mean there's a difference in the air between first class and an economy?
unidentified		First class gets three times more air than economy.
		Oh, they do?
		But the reason is because there's fewer people breathing the same cubic square feet.
		That's why.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it part of the same circulation system?
unidentified		As economy, yes.
		And for the most part, it's pumped in toward the front of the plane, and the outflow valves are toward the back.
		So I always find the air is fresher the closer I get to the front, and it's fresher when there's less people around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah.
		Unfortunately, most of the flights, overseas flights, are generally booked.
		I guess they like to run them that way.
		So there is a good tip.
		Number one, you're saying the air is better toward the front of the plane.
unidentified		I find it better.
		I notice that I feel like I can breathe better.
		And, of course, if you're lucky enough to get the upper deck on a 747, it's even better there.
		Well, I've never had that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've snuck up a couple of times to see what it's like, and it's very nice, but I've never been able to fly that way myself.
unidentified		I've got a page on my website, how to sneak into first class.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you really?
		How do you...
		Let's hear it.
unidentified		Well, I'm not recommending it, but...
unidentified		don't try this at home folks but felt I mean, if you board late, and then you know which seats are available.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, if you're one of the last persons on.
		But the airplane seems to fill from the front toward the rear.
		So you're gambling.
		If you can't sneak into first class, then you lost out and you're probably going to sit back.
		Where is the worst place to sit on an airplane?
		The absolute rear?
unidentified		Worst from what point of view?
		From a crash, from air quality, from noise, from smell of lavators, each area.
		I mean, in a crash, you just never know.
		They used to say the best place is over the wing, but it's not so.
		in that United Decompression out of Honolulu, where the fuselage peeled up over the cargo area, it was the people over the wing that died.
		So it's really not...
		We can't necessarily figure it out that there's only one best place.
		Some people like the aisles because they say there's more leg room, but the aisles are so narrow that they're constantly getting bumped by carts and people walking by.
		Again, people like to sit in the front row, but on a lot of aircraft they Park carts there during the flight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's not altogether bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Usually there's little tiny bottles of booze that you can lift when people like you aren't looking.
unidentified		Well, anyway, so back to that original statement: low in air pressure, humidity, and oxygen, and high in radiation, pesticides, and germs.
unidentified		So the radiation actually crew members, pilots and flight attendants, are now classified as radiation-sensitive workers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		And they get more radiation than nuclear power plant workers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And radiation because of the constant high altitude?
unidentified		Yes, it's from the sun.
		Radiation doubles, I think, every 3,000 feet.
		The exact statistic is in my book and on my website.
		But at high altitudes, radiation is very significant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has the air on airliners always been bad, or is it been worse recently?
unidentified		It's worse recently.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
unidentified		Well, the news purports that it's because the newer planes, like the 757 that you flew, have less fresh air capacity than the older 747s, for example.
unidentified		And that's only part of the truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We'll get to the rest of the truth in a moment.
		Diana Fairchild is my guest, and we're talking about air travel, I guess, generally, and why you get sick so frequently on an airplane, and we're going to find out how to avoid it, too.
		That's what I'm really interested in.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 24, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from February
		24, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from February 24, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from February 24, 1997.
		You're listening to our Bell, Summer in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 24th, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've got to know that anybody who'll tell you how you can speak into first class is going to give you the straight stuff.
		That's Diana Farichild, and she's in Kauai, on Kauai, the island of in Hawaii.
		Was an airlines due for 20-plus years for Pan Am and United.
		We'll get back to her in a moment.
unidentified		Sk Sk I look like her Dongla.
		30.
		Now we take you back to the night of February 24th, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Outro Music All right, back now to Diana Fairchild.
		Diana, just before we return to where we were, I was thinking about sneaking into first class.
		Now, if you're back in the economy section and the airplane gets underway and actually gets into the air, can you casually sort of just wander forward into, you know, they draw a curtain in the first class.
		It's what I remember as a curtain is drawn.
		Can you go through that curtain and sort of just sort of casually look around, find an empty seat, and plop down?
unidentified		It's possible on some of those very, very long flights where the crew gets breaks.
		Oh.
		But, you know, and then a lot of people are sleeping too, depends on the time of departure.
		Like if you're on that, for example, LA City flight that leaves at midnight, everybody pretty much goes to sleep right away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		The thing is, though, the flight attendants have a passenger manifest list of names of all the first-class passengers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Diane, I'm kind of losing your audio here for some reason.
unidentified		Is this better?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
		The flight attendants have a list of names of first-class passengers, which they usually try to use when taking orders for breakfast and things, you know, for the meals.
		So that's a time when you could get caught.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if you got busted, what could they do other than send you back with the masses?
unidentified		Well, it's best not to argue, you know, because there's that FAA rule about interfering with the duties of a flight attendant.
unidentified		I think the best thing is to cop an insanity plea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, I didn't know where I was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's the lack of oxygen.
unidentified		That would be perfect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, somebody just sent me a fax, and it says the air recirculation is a fuel-saving measure.
		The air conditioning system bleeds energy from the engines, turn it down, and the company makes more dollars.
		It's that simple.
		Is it?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean to say, you mean to say this is done to save fuel money?
unidentified		It saves about $80 an hour on a jumbo jet.
		eighty dollars an hour so i guess that in fifty that they probably they Yes.
		And the total load of a 747 is about 500.
		So whatever the math would be, $30 or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's outrageous.
		If How much are they turning off generally, typically?
		In other words, how much of the filtration system or the air conditioning system is off?
unidentified		Each plane has a different type of system.
		It's not uniform in all the fleets.
		Even the Boeings, for example, have different systems than the other types of aircraft.
		But on the Boeing 747, there's three air packs.
		And so these are connected to three of the engines.
		So the way it works is the engines have two functions.
		One is to fly the plane, and the other is to take outside unbreathable air, which is too thin, and pack it.
		That's why it's called air pack.
		Pack it, compress it, and pump it into the cabin as fresh air.
		So basically what they do is they turn off one right after takeoff.
		I think they need all three for takeoff because it's part of the engine, and then they turn off one when they get to a certain altitude.
		But I was talking to a flight attendant friend this evening, and a lot of times I remember too, they're just not working.
		They're not required for takeoff.
		Clearance, you know, certain things you can't take off unless they're working, and this is not something that is required to work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		How can we force them or can we force them?
		I mean, things have certainly changed with the airlines.
		I remember when we flew back in the days of your early job, why we got decent meals, we got all kinds of extras, all the peanuts you wanted, blah, blah, blah.
		And now you're lucky to get an indigestible slab of turkey, which I hate anyway, or something else.
		In other words, cost-cutting measures have really come into play in the last few years.
		And so how do we force them to do something about the air?
		And I really mean that.
		I'm angry about this.
unidentified		Well, I have two things that I'm suggesting to people in my book, Dead Smart.
		And the first one is because all of the airplanes have different ways of providing air, like I just described the 747 to you, it's totally different than the 757.
		They have recirculation fans that are on that need to be turned off.
		So you can't say turn it on or turn it off.
		What you can ask for is full utilization of air.
		That's what we used to ask for.
		That is the airline term that means that whatever fresh air capacity that plane has, they're going to use that capacity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Suppose I'm on an airplane and I buzz you and you come over and smile at me and ask how you can help and I say I would like full utilization of this aircraft's air system.
		What do you do then?
		Do you go and call the pilot?
unidentified		Well the first thing is not to ring the call button for that because the flight attendants are totally overworked and exhausted themselves because they're breathing that same air.
		So the best would be if she happens to be passing your seat or if you get up and go back where she's setting up or doing something and say, could you ask the pilot for full utilization of air, please?
		Have understanding when you ask and realize the flight attendants are suffering even more than the passengers because they're working so aerobically.
		So then the flight attendant will probably call the pilot or tell the purser, the chief flight attendant, the purser may be wanting to be the only one to talk to the pilot.
		But in any case, most probably the pilots will know pretty quickly that somebody asked for full utilization of air.
		And then you can notice if the air conditioning gets louder and you start feeling better, one of the symptoms of hypoxia, which is lack of oxygen to the brain, is that you can't think clearly.
		Like you mentioned the other night with the glue, you know.
		And you really can't think clearly when you don't have enough oxygen in your brain.
		So you'll notice that you're hypoxic if you're reading that same paragraph, you know, for 20 minutes or something, but you just don't get beyond it in that magazine or can't figure out something in your crosser puzzle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're probably in that condition if you're even really enjoying the airline magazine that's there at all.
		No, anyway, I don't really, I'm just angry.
		I'm very angry.
unidentified		I understand.
		I am too.
		I got sick.
		I got very, very sick, and it changed my whole life.
		You know, I've never been the same.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll certainly get to that in a moment.
		I was so angry that I swore for a while I was going to wear, you remember Desert Storm, you remember the ABC masks they had?
		Those chemical masks?
		I'm serious.
		I'm serious.
		I was going to get one.
		I was going to go on my next long trip in one of those.
		Now, if I got on an aircraft in a mask like that, what would happen?
unidentified		Nothing.
		You could actually ask for an oxygen bottle, and that's my second strategy.
		If you notice that the air conditioning hasn't changed, that you don't start feeling better and that the air conditioning isn't louder, then the next time you see the flight attendant, you just say, you know, I'm feeling very sick and I would like some oxygen.
		And they have portable bottles.
		For example, on a 747, they've got 17 bottles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		And on a 757, let me see, I got that figure for you yesterday and wrote it down.
unidentified		Oh, they've got four on a 757.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've never seen anybody ask or get one.
unidentified		Right.
		Well, I hope that people will start asking because they'll feel better.
		I used to sip pure oxygen when I was flying, especially those last two years when I didn't feel well most of the time.
		And it makes a tremendous difference in your health on board and after landing.
		And it's a little expensive for the airlines, so at some point a lot of people start asking that they'll turn on the air in the first place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do they have to provide that to you without extra charge?
unidentified		Yes.
		If you don't feel well in the plane, it's free.
		If you ask for it before takeoff in anticipation of not feeling well, then you need a note from your doctor and you're paid between $50 and $80 a bottle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, but if you do it once you're airborne, too late, and they've got to just do it.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Aha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so if a lot of people begin doing that, oh, I've got you.
unidentified		That's our little revolution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A little revolution.
		That's a good revolution.
		Boy, these are some good, good, good ideas.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If the airline were to hear, if you were still employed, saying the things you're saying now, would you be suddenly out of work?
unidentified		I don't know.
unidentified		Seems like it, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seems like it.
		I can imagine you would be, yes.
		Do you know that you are retired, do you still fly?
unidentified		Yes, a little bit.
		And one of the tips I'm giving, you know, regards the contagious disease issue in the plane, it's a big problem, tuberculosis and flu and things that you're suffering from.
		It's always frightening, I think, when somebody right behind you is coughing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's just where I was going.
		Inevitably, I'm on a plane and either behind me, usually behind me, or even in front of me, somebody is coughing, sneezing, snotting, absolutely, totally sick.
		It's obvious.
		Why is it, Diana, that airlines don't station somebody at some point screening passengers who are obviously sick?
unidentified		Because they're not thinking about healthy flying.
unidentified		They're thinking about getting us, you know, getting a takeoff slot and all that stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Profitable flying.
unidentified		Yeah, right.
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, I mean, doesn't it make some sense that if somebody is obviously sick, that the airline could say, sir or ma'am, we're going to require that you see a physician or something before boarding or, you know, something like that.
unidentified		Even the Centers for Disease Control requested that people with tuberculosis TB not take long flights, but nobody's monitoring it and nobody even said what a long flight is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was even thinking of the flu.
unidentified		The flu is even worse.
		So what I'm suggesting, I found out from a doctor that covering your nose and mouth cuts down the transmission of viruses and germs over 90%.
		So what I like to do when I travel is wear a handkerchief over my nose and mouth.
		You can wear a Western outfit and wear a scarf and just pull it up during the flight.
		Or you can get that charcoal mask and just put it on in flight.
		And then the other thing I'm suggesting, a daring optional suggestion, is that you have in your bag a couple of little painter's masks.
		And if someone is coughing, you present it to them, possibly saying, gee, I'm sure you would like to not, you know, get everybody else on the plane sick.
		Why don't you wear this?
		If you've ever been to Tokyo, you know you've seen how people are so considerate that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely true.
		I don't know how much of it is consideration and how much of it is fear.
		A lot of Japanese, I think, who are not sick wear those masks, and you see them all over Tokyo in order not to get sick.
unidentified		Oh, I never thought of that.
unidentified		That's probably true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it is.
		And you see them all over Japan.
		The Japanese are very, very aware of that, and we are not.
unidentified		So basically, my whole philosophy in Get Smart, which has 200 tips of this kind, is that the airlines are thinking a different way, and we need to take care of ourselves.
		We need to take charge.
		So what I like to do is present all the environmental stressors to the reader, and they can see all the different things that are going on.
		The pesticides, the ozone, the diesel fumes, the viruses, electromagnetic pulses, radiation, toxic chemicals.
		Tobacco smoke is still.
		I went to Hong Kong recently, all the way to Tokyo and all the way to Hong Kong with smoking flights.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Yeah.
		Now, see, I'm a smoker, and I've been looking for smoking flights, and I can't find any more of them.
		They still exist then.
		Is that true?
unidentified		Just call United.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		United has smoking flights?
unidentified		Yeah, that was on United to Tokyo and to Hong Kong.
unidentified		I believe a lot of the South American sectors are still smoking, and some places in Europe, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, here's a funny thing I heard.
		Now, maybe you can confirm or deny this, but that on smoking flights, strangely, you have less of a chance of getting sick than on non-smoking flights.
		And the reason given by the person who told me this was that they've got to turn on so much extra filtration because of the smoking.
unidentified		Yeah, that's a nice idea.
		I mean, the National Academy of Science published a report that said they've got to turn on full utilization of air when there's a full load.
		And they don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they don't.
unidentified		As you know, most of the flights are all full everywhere now because they have these really great last-minute deals and things like that.
		So I understand there's quite a few of them available on the Internet.
		I don't know which pages.
		I think American Airlines started it.
		And you could just sort of log on the last, you know, 48 hours and pick up really cheap tickets.
		And so the planes are all full, really.
		And yet the air isn't necessarily full utilization.
		And people think, you know, the it's the pilots that are turning down the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is a pilot's pre prerogative, isn't it?
unidentified		Kind of.
unidentified		I mean, it's a management dictum, and the pilots follow it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are the pilots rated on how much fuel they save and use?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, is there motivation from the company for the pilots to save every bit of fuel they can?
unidentified		You're so smart, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just asking.
unidentified		Even some of the airlines pay bonuses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bonuses?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bonuses?
unidentified		financial bonuses to save fuel.
		Only the captain.
		Only the captain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why don't we...
		Why don't we have an advocate?
		I mean, you're obviously that, but a high-level advocate who represents passengers rights.
		We ought to have rights when we fly.
		Some rights to healthy air for beginners.
unidentified		Right.
		Well, that's what I'm trying to do because no one else is doing it.
		And it's a very, very complex situation.
		And I don't think anyone who has not been an insider for the length of time that I was, and also I just happen to be personally very curious.
		I'm kind of a health nut, you know, since a long time, vegetarian since the 60s and interested in spirituality and subtle energy and all of these kinds of things.
		So I was just somehow wanting to learn all about this while I was flying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mentioned that you got sick.
		And it sounds like you said you were, during the last couple of years, very sick.
		Yes.
		With flu or something worse?
unidentified		Or what?
unidentified		Well, I understand you're going into depth a lot about Gulf War syndrome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And in my opinion, what happened to me is the same disease as Gulf War syndrome.
		It's called multiple chemical sensitivity.
		And my doctor says it's the very, very similar symptoms of Gulf War syndrome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Environmentally induced.
unidentified		Environmental illness.
		And the direct cause of it was pesticide in New Zealand and Australia.
		I don't know if you know this, but in a number of countries in the world, they actually spray pesticide on passengers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
		No, I didn't know that.
		When do they do that?
unidentified		They have it all different ways.
		Like, sometimes the flight attendant has to spray it about 30 minutes before touchdown atop a descent, and sometimes...
		No.
		They walk down the aisle with these canisters of pesticide.
		Uh-oh.
		And they spray between the overhead bin and the passenger's head, so it just rains down on you like a pesticide shower.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wonderful.
		Diana, hold tight.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		We'll be back to you.
		We're going to open up the lines, let the audience ask questions, all right?
unidentified		Okay, great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Diana, hold tight.
		Diana Fairchild, Jet Smart is her book.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 24th, 1997.
		Tonight, tonight we're going to make it happen.
		Tonight, we'll put all of the things around.
		Give in this time and show me some better.
		We're going for those pleasures in the night.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired February 24th, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the island of Kauai, my guest is Diana Fairchild.
		She was a stew for stewardess for United Airlines and Pan Am for over 20 years.
		We're talking about flying and getting sick on airplanes and airplanes in general.
		And I've got a captain here who has written an angry little fact about Diana, and we'll get to that in a moment and bring her back on and get to your questions about flying and sickness and why the airlines are saving money at the expense of our health and what we should do about it, says a still recovering Art Bell.
unidentified		Pewds Screams
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of February 24th, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back to the island of Kauai and Diana Fairchild.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Diana, I'm going to read you a fax here, and let's see how you respond to it, all right?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, it says, Art, this lady is full of, well, CRAP crap.
		A pack is pressurized air conditioning kit.
		The fans reference take outside air from the right pack and does not save money.
		Air is required to completely change in an airline cabin every seven minutes.
		The reason the air is thinner, at jet altitudes of 33,000 feet, the cabin is at 8,000 feet, just like a sea-level drive to Denver.
		The filter is air going out the outflow valve.
		Pilots have no way to filter air.
		Diana has problems with reality.
		Sign Jim, and he gives the last name, Captain, 26 years.
		What do you say to that?
unidentified		Well, people should look on the Internet at my page called Full Utilization of Air because a number of captains have written in and said there's no such swish, there's no such thing.
		And I've answered them, you know, from the Boeing Manual and the National Academy of Science Press.
		And this kind of thing is going on all the time.
		And even what I found on the Internet was a report from an aeromedical physician in England who works for a number of airlines.
		And it was a report, and I link it on my site, on this page, where it was about hearing loss among pilots.
		And it just said in an offhand way that the pilots find the air conditioning so noisy that just for that reason they're turning it off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One more little thing, Diana.
		I have a friend who works for United, who, because he is not yet retired, has to remain nameless.
		But he's a good friend of mine.
		I talked to him a few minutes ago.
		He said, ask her about humidity.
		Now, you already said the passengers suffer at some point on long flights, zero humidity levels.
		He said, ask her what the pilots have, humidity-wise.
unidentified		They have the same.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They have the same?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He indicated he thought they had a humidifier up there.
unidentified		Well, actually, you know, on some aircraft, they may have certain humidifiers, particularly the newer ones, when it finally came out where the airlines were admitting that the pilots had different air than the passengers.
unidentified		Because when I discovered that, actually, when the no-smoking went into effect on U.S. flights, and a little aside in a report, it said pilots who smoke are still allowed to smoke, but passengers shouldn't worry because they have separate air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, wait a minute.
		Wait just a moment.
		Did you just say that pilots who smoke on non-smoking flights are allowed to smoke?
		Is that what I heard you say?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's an outrage.
unidentified		Anyway, that's how I found out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's an outrage.
unidentified		That they had separate air.
		I always suspected it because it felt so different in the cockpit.
		When I was really sick those last two years, I was so sensitive that if I did find myself in the cockpit, it was so much easier to breathe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you mean anyway.
		Wait a minute.
		You mean to tell me that while I'm sitting back there in economy with my hand twitching, going through nicotine withdrawal on a seven-hour flight to Europe, that the pilot up there is smoking away?
unidentified		If he's a smoker, he's a small.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unbelievable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unbelievable.
unidentified		But anyway, when finally the airlines admitted that the pilots had separate air, because they were really denying it at first, and even pilots would come up to me and say, no, no, it's not true.
		And I say, I know it's true.
		But anyway, when they finally admitted it, they said, oh, the pilot air is different because of the instruments in the cockpit, not because of the pilots.
		Because of the delicate instruments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The delicate instruments.
unidentified		So there may be some of the newer aircraft may be having some humidity in there for the instruments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		All right.
		A lot of people want to talk to you, so let's get some of them on the air.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Diana Fairchild on the island of Kauai.
unidentified		Hello.
		Good evening, Art.
		My name is Chris from Carmichael, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there, Chris.
unidentified		I have a question in regards to you were talking about cabin pressure altitude.
		Yes.
		I was wondering if there's any federal regulations for MAC flights, military flights, for passengers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, a different pressure allowed?
unidentified		Right.
		Are there different pressures allowed?
		Do you know, Diana?
		No, I think you'd need to ask a military pilot.
		Hmm.
		Because you said that it was 8,000 feet?
		Yeah, commercial aircraft are regulated that the cabin interior pressure cannot go over 8,000 feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I would presume, caller, that when there were, for example, I flew military, but it was a chartered commercial aircraft.
		So I would imagine commercial standards would prevail on MAC aircraft.
		As she points out, you'd have to ask a MAC pilot.
unidentified		Right.
		Yeah, I did a lot of MAC flying, actually.
		At the end of the Vietnam War, we used to take the R ⁇ R trips.
		Well, I'm an Army brat, and we spent some time in Europe.
		And my mother, my brother, and I came back on a C-5.
		And my brother, when we got back, had serious ear problems.
		Oh, I see.
		That's why.
		That's why I question it.
		Oh, I see.
		Well, ear problems, you know, pilots tell me that when you're flying and you have a history of ear problems or you have a cold, that it would be good to notify them that they maybe can pressurize more delicately than, you know, manually instead of automatically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the other thing I said earlier that I want to stress again is it seems to me that the airlines, you know, I hate to be the enforcer of regulation because there's so much regulation already, but somebody ought to screen passengers who are sick and keep them off flights.
		Offer them a later flight.
		Offer them some other alternative.
		But if they're sneezing, coughing, hacking, if they've got the flu or something more serious, for God's sakes, keep them off airplanes and save the rest of us.
		Or is that a violation of somebody's civil rights?
unidentified		You know, I have a little story about this.
		I was on a New Zealand flight one night, which I think is about eight hours from Honolulu, where I was based.
		And about four or five hours into the flight, I had a severe sore throat just come on me.
		And I know you mentioned earlier that you had a seven days before, did you say seven days before you came down with that?
		And that's a normal incubation time, what they say, from being in a toxic, you know, a germ-filled environment.
		But this was just right in flight.
		I had a very severe sore throat, and I happened to be working the upper deck, so it's sort of like a little area where you get to know everybody.
		And within minutes that I felt this sore throat, three passengers said to me, out of a total of 16, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's scary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Scary.
unidentified		Yeah, I ran up to the cockpit and I said, there's something wrong.
		Four of us, you know, out of this small area are sick.
		And I don't know about the rest of the plane.
		And the captain said to me, actually, we have a very sick child on board.
		And we normally don't carry people who are so sick, but we were personally petitioned, and they asked the captain for permission, and he said, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
		I guess maybe there's too much prerogative for a captain in that category.
		After all, captains are good at flying airplanes, but they're not physicians.
		That's right.
unidentified		Ultimately, it's up to us to know that all of these things exist and then what we can do to take care of ourselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I like the oxygen bottle idea.
		We'll get back to that.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Diana Fairchild on Kawaii.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, actually, my comment is about the oxygen bottle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Florida.
unidentified		Okay.
		Well, this is kind of a freak thing that happened to me.
		I was flying from New Orleans to Miami, and I don't even know what happened.
		I couldn't breathe, and my mind sort of went blank.
		And something told me to do something immediately about what was happening.
		Sure.
		Got up.
		I saw Stewart and started to walk towards her.
		And that's the last thing I remember.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man.
unidentified		I came to, it was a passenger next to me.
		I had an oxygen mask on me with a bottle.
		And the passenger next to me rummaging through a first aid kit.
		He gets a needle out and says, this is going to hurt.
		Oh, my God.
		I found out that I was having a severe reaction to something on the plane.
		My lungs had shut down and my heart was in the process of shutting down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
unidentified		And he gave me an adrenaline shot to get my heart working.
		There was no one else.
		It just happened to be a doctor on the plane.
		There were stewardesses, did not know how to deal with this situation.
		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, what an incredible story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I take it you recovered.
unidentified		I was fine as soon as I had oxygen and adrenaline.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oxygen and adrenaline.
unidentified		Yeah, I was bouncing off the wall after an adrenaline shot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were there any other passengers with similar?
unidentified		No, I was the only one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were the only one?
unidentified		Only one.
		But here's the thing.
		First of all, the guy told me after the flight that they were radioing to get the plane turned around to land it.
		And he told me that they never would have landed the plane before I was dead.
		He hadn't been on that flight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yikes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In your years of flying, Diana, did you ever have heart attacks, people in acute distress other than the situation you just described?
unidentified		It's actually quite common, you know, that people get very, very ill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite common?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I mean, you know, every month you'll get a couple of things, serious things happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how well are stewardesses trained if there is not a doctor on board?
unidentified		I think they're pretty well trained, but the thing is, you know, with all the cutbacks in the airline industry, you're just so busy.
		Did you read that one?
		He cut his throat in the first class bathroom with a little penknife.
		And I guess the first suicide like that in a plane.
		And it said that the flight attendant, you know, a stewardess found him because he was in for a long time.
		And I thought to myself, well, she's really aware that she would have the time to remember who went in and when because you've seen, everybody's seen how much the flight attendants are running around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're very, very busy and even more so on relatively short flights.
		For example, when you fly from Los Angeles to Las Vegas, it's about a one-hour flight, and they barely have time to get the cart up and down and throw a sack peanuts at you and whatever.
		And then you're on the way down again.
		So they are really flying on those flights.
		I notice on the long-haul flights, they do have some periods where they can sit, and you see the students sit down and rest occasionally.
unidentified		Those are, you know, mandated rests on duty days of over 14 hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah.
unidentified		You know, when you're but you report to the airport two hours before takeoff, of course, and you Don't get off immediately.
		You've got customs and everything.
		And so when you're on duty, you know, double digits, you know, 12, 13, 14, 16, 18 hours, you're on duty.
		You have to have a break.
		No one could stand up that long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are the statistics regarding stewardesses?
		I won't ask about pilots because they have the rare air, apparently.
		But stewardesses getting sick.
		There must be, somebody must keep statistics.
unidentified		No, nobody's really taking care of this right now.
		OSHA doesn't watch out.
		The FAA seems to neglect flight attendants.
		And in my opinion, the union seems to be focusing on other things.
		So nobody's really watching out.
		I mean, I get contacted all the time by one stewardess recently contacted me.
		She got TB.
		And she knows she got it on the plane, but she can't prove it, can't get any compensation.
		And there's a report recently out of Finland of breast and bone marrow cancer among flight attendants, which is, I think, double or triple the normal population.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Attributed to what, do you think?
unidentified		Radiation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Radiation.
unidentified		And all the other things that are going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remember, folks, airplanes are at a very high altitude, particularly on the long flights, and they're subject to a great deal more radiation, background radiation, than we are on the ground with all this wonderful protection of the atmosphere.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Diana Farichild.
		Hi.
unidentified		Well, good morning.
		This is Steve.
		I'm calling from Knoxville, Tennessee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, I just wanted to ask Diana, do you happen to know if there's ever been an instance where a person has successfully sued an airline because perhaps they have had some sort of a medical problem brought on by the poor air quality in the plane?
		The reason I ask is obviously because of the recent death of Art Bail.
		Thank you.
		I tried to get workers' comp benefits, and the Hawaii Court seems to prefer the Aloha spirit to human rights.
		And I've been nine years trying to get my work comp benefits and just had the latest action from the Hawaii Supreme Court where they totally dismissed me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On what basis?
unidentified		They didn't give a basis.
		They just wrote a memorandum decision.
		So they first accepted to hear it, and then they kept it over two years, and then they denied a hearing.
		They wouldn't give me a hearing, and they wouldn't give me a decision.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible.
unidentified		It is incredible.
		And I'm about to post all this information on my website about the legal things because my attorney wants to take it to the U.S. Supreme Court.
		But you can't really get heard by them unless you have a national interest.
		And that's why I'm really appreciative for the opportunity to tell your listeners that I'm trying to get heard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, you're being heard, believe me.
		Now, she wrote a book, Diana authored a book called Jet Smart.
		In it, there are all kinds of tips, like the ones you heard in the first hour.
		Practical things like how to sneak into first class, practical things like how not to get sick on an airliner, and I guess all kinds of tips on airliners.
		Where can they get your book?
unidentified		They can call 1-800-524-8477, and if they mention Art Bell, they can have a significant discount.
		It's normally $15 with postage.
		It would be $10 for anybody that says Art Bell in the next 48 hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		kidding and boy they could tell them fast about one eight hundred five two four eight four seven seven if you mention my name uh...
unidentified		a recent survivor of a near-air disaster and then you get five dollars off they can go into their local bookstore, Borders, and Barnes and Noble, and a lot of bookstores stocking it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they'll pay full price.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		But they won't have to pay shipping, but then if they get it with the 800 number, they'll get an autograph copy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they will?
		Well, that makes it a kind of a hard choice.
		Not at all, really.
		All right, Diana, hold on.
		We'll be back to you in 30 more minutes, all right?
unidentified		Okay, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stay right there.
		Diana Fairchild is my guest.
		She was a stew for over 20 years.
		Now she's telling all.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Heartbell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 24, 1997.
		That's where we started from.
		You remember that day, surely when you first came my way.
		I said no one could take your face.
		And if you get hurt, if you get hurt By the little things I say, I can put that smile back on your face.
		When it's alright and it's coming on, we gotta get right back to where we started wrong.
		Love is good, love can be strong, we gotta get right back to where we started wrong.
		Love is good.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 24th, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait till you hear about the call I just got.
		Now, I wouldn't go on the air, but I'm going to paraphrase what he said as best I can.
		another captain and uh...
unidentified		i'll tell you all about it in a moment You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
unidentified		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 24, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music All right, an airline stew for over 20 years for Pan Am and United.
		Here once again is Diana Fairchild.
		Diana, I just had a call from a pilot, another pilot, but he wouldn't come on the air.
		I'll tell you what he said.
		He said, boy, is she a dingbat.
		She's a complainer.
		I've dealt with stews like her for years and years and years and years.
		They're all the same, he said.
		I said, well, come on on the air.
		You would say that right to her face.
		Oh, no, I don't want to go in the air.
		And I said, come on, you're going to say it.
		Say it to her.
		He wouldn't, but he said, almost every stew he knows is just like you.
		What do you say to that?
unidentified		Well, it's interesting because I've met a lot of really nice people on the Internet, and one of them is the pilot that helps me figure things out sometimes when I don't know cockpit things, but he wants to remain anonymous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Naturally.
unidentified		And so I got a letter from one pilot, kind of like that.
		What did he call me?
		I forget.
		Anyway, I posted it on the Internet.
		I can read you what I wrote.
		In spite of the angry tone of your letter to me, I've decided to answer you.
		I took the liberty of forwarding your letter to another commercial airline pilot.
		Here's his reply.
		Mind you, some of my best friends are Delta guys.
		Still, there are some.
		Every company has them.
		Who should have stayed in the military?
		If he isn't simply having a bad day, Tom might be one of these.
		A kindler, gentler soul would have pointed out, and then he goes into how everything I'm saying is true, that the air circulation and blah, blah, blah, and where the switches are.
		and you know he He just said, he backs me up.
		So I don't know what to say.
		I'm sorry that the man feels, the captain feels that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what does he carry?
		He's sitting up there with good air, smoking a cigarette when he wants to.
		I can't get over that part.
		Here's somebody who wrote, I have flown to Lagos, Nigeria, twice in the last two years.
		Both times, without notification, I was sprayed upon arrival.
		You were talking about pesticide spraying?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They do that, huh?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Diana Fairchild.
unidentified		Good evening.
		How are you doing?
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm all right.
unidentified		Hi, Diana.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I have a question.
unidentified		It seems like every time I get on a plane, my main problem is the methane problem.
		And it seems like every time I get off a plane, I have severe brain damage.
		It would seem if I could get proof of this, I could see a living bowel puke out of those airlines.
		Do you agree with that?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		And I got another quick question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Methane?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Methane has a problem, Diana?
unidentified		I don't know about methane.
		I know that there's a lot of toxic chemicals.
		In particular, there's chemicals from fuel exhaust and off-gassing of cabin furnishings and things like that.
		I don't know.
		I have a report in my files that it's on the Internet and somebody showed me where it was and I downloaded it.
		I don't have it in front of me, but it names all the gases and chemicals and things that were found in the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I was on recently going to Mexico, 757.
		I got really lucky or unlucky, I guess, Diana.
		And I was just looking into the back of the engine.
		That's where I was sitting, right?
		A window seat.
		Literally looking into the back of the engine.
		And I almost choked to death before we took off on the smell of kerosene.
		I mean, it was really strong.
		Really, really strong.
unidentified		Jet fuel smell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jet fuel smell, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kerosene, I presume they use kerosene for jet, whatever it is.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A very, very strong smell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, it began to go away a little bit as we got to cruising altitude, but oh man, it was truly strong.
unidentified		Well, it comes from two reasons.
		You were sitting behind the engine.
		That's one of the reasons I don't like to sit in back of the plane.
		But also, the diesel trucks on the runway and the plane in front of you in the takeoff queue and all of those things are funneled right back into the cabin air supply.
		All those toxic chemicals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, because you're literally in the wash of the last plane that took off, aren't you?
unidentified		Yes, you're in a queue, usually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I never thought about that.
unidentified		But also the diesel trucks as they go by.
unidentified		You know, the baggage trucks and the commissary trucks and things like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but this was clearly the smell of jet fuel.
unidentified		Of your own engine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		And a lot of them now, a lot of the airlines, you see, before they used to have really prepare the cabin, you know, have the auxiliary power unit, the ground air conditioning on for hours before passengers would load.
		And now that's another cutback where they just kind of put it on at the last minute.
		So the plane really isn't all that fresh when you get on.
		And then they don't use all the air conditioning because they're using all the engine power for takeoff.
		So during that time, from the time that the plane disengages the umbilical of the air conditioning, the auxiliary power unit, which is usually either a private truck or inside the terminal itself in the newer airport, from once it disengages from that until you're up in the air, there's really not much fresh air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Diana Fairchild on Kawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, this is Charlotte.
unidentified		And she answered most of the question that was on my mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, where are you?
unidentified		And also, I have one other question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, where are you located?
unidentified		In California, in Northern California, around San Francisco.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Now, I have a question about the pilots and their ability to put the air traffic control on the headset when you are in a 2-7, 3-7, or 5-7.
		And is it really their choice to put it on?
		And I requested from a flight attendant, I would want to hear on-air traffic between San Fran and Chicago and between Chicago and San Fran.
		And I understand with United, because the cabin attendants are not part of the union, that there can be a little bit of animosity between the cabin attendants and the pilot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, I'm sure hearing a lot of it tonight, believe me.
unidentified		Well, there is, you know, there is animosity from day one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would think you'd all be part of a team.
		I mean, I always heard that you folks ended up on the lapse of pilots and stuff.
		Not true, huh?
unidentified		Once the 747 came in in the early 70s, that was the end of that.
unidentified		But before that, when we had the smaller plane, we were a little bit closer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So when the bigger planes came along, there was sort of a separation.
unidentified		Separation economically, separation altitude-wise, separation benefits, everything.
		They started staying in different hotels.
		They started flying different kinds of routes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you guys didn't even date anymore?
unidentified		Not anymore, not much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Diana Fairchild.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I have a question.
		I take frequent trips to Spain now and then, and I play guitar.
		I have a problem getting the guitar on in with me, you know, as carry-on.
		And I've had guitars destroyed in the baggage department.
		Do you have any suggestions on how I could get it on with me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		Minneapolis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Minneapolis.
		All right.
		So, yeah, a good question.
unidentified		I think every kind of special handling, whether you're carrying a guitar or you need a vegetarian meal or you're exceptionally tall or you're a wide body, every type of special handling needs just to take a little extra time and try and have a rapport with somebody at the airline,
		whether you try and make friends with the person you're making a reservation with or when you finally get to the airport and you try and really connect with the person who's checking you in.
		I mean, they're so busy looking at the computer, often they hardly even have time to look up, but if there's some way to connect with these people, and I personally feel that just a small little gift, I'm always giving my book out, and it's just such a little thing, but people appreciate it so much.
		And it's just a little thing you could give somebody for a favor, not a bribe kind of thing, but just a little thing, a scarf or, I don't know, just travel with a few little things and just say, I have this special need, and I don't know where the best seat for me is on board, but my guitar has been broken.
		I'm a professional player.
		I have to have it there.
		Can you please help Me and figure out how to do this, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The human touch, in other words.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		One more.
		West of the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Diana Fairchild.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Hi, this is Daryl in San Clemente.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Daryl.
unidentified		How are you doing?
		Hi, Diana.
		Hi, Daryl.
		Thanks for being here.
		It's about time I feel like I got on this thing.
		I'm calling about, actually, it's something that happened to my girlfriend.
		She flew back east over the winter to see her family.
		And on the flight back from Chicago, they had sprayed the plane with a de-icing agent.
		And they said, you'll notice a little bit of smell for a while, but it'll go away.
		And it never did.
		It was overpowering.
		Not only when they boarded, but for well, well, well into the flight.
		And not only her, but her and her son both were really, they were bedridden for three days.
		Yes.
		They could hardly breathe.
		Yeah, I heard that recently, actually.
		I was reading about that de-icing and that it's a very toxic chemical in the cabin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah, and it was bad for a long time.
unidentified		It might go back to that caller who had allergic reaction, maybe that's what happened to him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what I think?
		I think that your idea, now listen to me, everybody.
		Every aircraft has at least a minimum of four oxygen bottles on board, and after you're airborne, if you don't like the air, Diana says you can request one of these oxygen bottles, and after you're airborne, they can't charge you extra for it.
		They've got to give it to you.
		And as a protest, if you don't like the air, if they don't fix the air and turn on everything they've got to provide clean air, ask for an oxygen bottle as a protest.
unidentified		You have to be sick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can look sick.
unidentified		You can say that you're sick.
unidentified		You don't feel well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't like the air.
unidentified		Right?
		It's more like you just, I'm feeling so sick.
		May I have some oxygen, please?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they've got to provide it.
unidentified		They should, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if enough people do that, maybe they'll do something about the damn air.
unidentified		It's got to change the tide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something does, because I really, I'm more upset about this than you can know.
unidentified		I have a consumer activist coalition called Fair Air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fair Air?
unidentified		Yeah.
		Really?
		And I'm fighting for this, and, you know, anybody that wants to get in and help, that would be great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do they help?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do they get to be part of this?
unidentified		Well, we can have $25, which would include, you know, newsletter and information and also opportunities to travel with me.
		I sometimes travel with people who are on their fear of flying graduation trips.
		And then anybody who's joined Fair Air can join us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Diana, did you ever crash in an aircraft?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Never crashed.
		So it's not worth spending a lot of time worrying about, really, is it?
		Or is it?
unidentified		No, I don't think so.
unidentified		I think, you know, we just really need to inform ourselves and then decide that we're going to take care of ourselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here comes a totally off-the-wall question.
		But again, I know people on the inside of some big aircraft companies.
		And so this is really off-the-wall, Diana.
		Have you ever heard of ghosts on aircraft?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Never?
		There are a couple of famous cases of spirits of a crash crew, a crew that have died in crashes, that have visited aircraft.
		I just thought I would ask.
unidentified		That's interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Houston, the Rockies, you're on the air with Diana Fairchild.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, please?
unidentified		I'm at Houston, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I don't want to give you my name.
unidentified		I'm an airline captain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, here we go.
unidentified		I've sent you a number of faxes today about various things with airlines.
		The reason that we have different air in the cockpit is because if there's a problem in the passenger cabin, they want us to be able to fly the airplane even if everyone else is incapacitated.
		It's a federal air regulation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but what about the complaint that, as a normal course of events, people in the back are nearly incapacitated?
unidentified		Well, I think that you want your pilots not to be incapacitated first and foremost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't argue that.
unidentified		You've got to get the airplane down if there's a problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's fair.
		That's fair.
		But, I mean, when you talk about the quality of cabin air for passengers, I've been doing a lot of flying, Captain, lately.
		And what's your attitude about what Diana is saying?
unidentified		I think that she's pretty close to target on a lot of what she's saying.
		There are minor technical inaccuracies, but not of a substantive nature.
		The recycling of the air is really not a good thing.
		In actuality, the cabin air is supposed to be different from the cockpit air, but on the newer generation airplanes, the aircraft probably don't meet the letter of the law in that the pilots do get the same air, or a portion of the same air, that's been recycled, as the passengers.
		At the particular airline that I work for, we've had a no-smoking policy in the cockpit now for about 10 years, and our pilots don't smoke, and in some cases, the passengers are smoking in the back, and the pilots don't smoke.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Captain, do you get a bonus if you save fuel?
unidentified		We used to years ago, but that went away when our management changed about five or six years ago.
		No, not at all.
		And that's, you know, it's because it's such a closed-in area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that all airlines or just yours?
unidentified		It's just ours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		I mean, it's up to each individual airline.
		The unions get together, the guys in the union, and have a vote, and they talk to their management and arrange it.
		That's what we did at ours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then more airlines than not do allow the pilot to smoke if he's a smoker?
unidentified		Most pilots don't smoke anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, Diana.
unidentified		Oh, I remember that at some point, if one of the pilots, the first officer or the captain, goes to the lavatory, the other one has to automatically go on oxygen.
		Is that at 14,000 or 10,000?
		It's at 25,000 feet or above.
		25,000, I see, outside altitude.
		Outside altitude, that's correct.
		It doesn't matter about the interior altitude.
		Right.
		Now, another thing that you were talking about, Art, was Getting sick.
		I've written the FAA about the radiation problem that Diana has mentioned.
		The radiation starts at about 10,000 feet.
		You're getting high-energy neutrons down to about 10,000 feet.
		I carried a Geiger counter for years to show people on my airplane, the crew members, what was happening.
		And at about 18,000 feet, the Geiger counter comes off real low level, just clicking every now and then.
		And by the time you're up to 28,000 feet, it's really popping along.
		And by the time you're 35,000 feet, it's pegged.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, if you spend years and years in the air, millions of miles, as Diana has, or as I'm sure you have, you really have been irradiated with a serious amount of radiation.
unidentified		Well, the FAA, or actually the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, changed the terms that are used.
		It used to be millirems is what they used as a standard for radiation measurements.
		I think they changed it to millisieverts as a unit of measuring.
		But what happened is it confused everybody as to what the levels of radiation that they were getting.
		And it used to be when you received above 500 millirems a year, then you were categorized as an occupational radiation hazard worker.
		Interestingly enough, the FAA has admitted that the average airline pilot and passenger gets about six-tenths of a millirem an hour.
		So if you fly 1,000 hours, the math is pretty simple.
		You're getting 600 millirems a year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is anybody doing any studying on statistics of various cancers for people who professionally fly?
unidentified		I don't know.
		I kind of doubt it.
		The airlines really don't want the information to get out because they're afraid they're going to scare the passengers away.
		The FAA has had the dual mission of promoting airline travel and enforcing the regulations, so they really haven't wanted to do anything about it.
		There was a study that was out about eight or ten years ago where they were a notice of proposed rulemaking at the FAA.
		I was one of the four people in the country that responded to it because of my studies with the Geiger counter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Captain, we are woefully short of time, so I'm going to have to end it there.
		Diana, you have been a great pleasure to have on the air.
		I thank you, and I hope everybody out there will buy your book, number one, which is what?
		Jet Smart.
unidentified		Jet Smart, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jet Smart.
		And hundreds of tips in there on where to sit, how to avoid getting sick, and all the rest of it.
		Diana, do me a favor, send me a copy of your book.
unidentified		Oh, absolutely, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And for everybody else, if you want it, it's 1-800-524-8477.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you call that number, you'll get an autograph copy.
unidentified		That's right.
unidentified		Autograph discounted copy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Discount.
		That's right.
		$10 instead of $15.
		1-800-524-8477.
		And her website is available through mine right now at www.artbell.com.
		So go take a look at her website.
		Get her book, Diana.
		Thank you.
unidentified		It's a pleasure, Art.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And take care in beautiful Kauai.
unidentified		Thank you, Greg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nice place to retire.
		That's Diana Fairchild, 20-plus years with the Airlines.
		And now you know why you get sick when you fly.
		I'm still not over the captain there.
		Smoke a cigarette.
		I can't believe it.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 24, 1997.
		Let's go more time.
		You have to stand, baby, don't you worry.
		We're still playing around But that's just fine Let's get excited We just can't hide it Oh, no, no I'm about to boost control And I think I like it I'm so excited And I just can't hide it Oh, no I know, I know, I know, I know I want you, I want you
		Oh,
		no, no I just can't get enough And if you move real slow I'll let it go I'm so excited I just can't hide it I'm
		about to lose control And I think I like it I'm so excited And I just can't hide it Oh, no, no, no I know, I know, I know, I know I want you You're listening to Ark Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 24th, 1997.
		Hey, hey, hey, you're about to get an update on Mel's Hole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll tell you all about that in a moment.
unidentified		We'll tell you all about that in a moment.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of February 24th, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music I received the following facts last week.
		Dear Art Bell, I'm writing to you to see if I can get some help from you or your vast listening Audience.
		I live in rural eastern Washington near the Monastosh Ridge.
		I think I'm pronouncing that correctly now.
		On our property, there is a hole.
		Like the previous owners and the owners before them, we've been throwing our trash into the hole.
		Apparently, the hole has been there as long as anyone can remember.
		At first, I thought it was an ancient well.
		Anyway, the hole is 9 feet, 9 inches in diameter.
		There is a stone retaining wall around it, and we put a steel door on top to keep anyone from falling into it.
		As I said earlier, people have been throwing their trash into the well, that's in quotes here, for decades.
		Furniture, household trash, dead cows, building debris, you name it.
		The thing is, I noticed the hole never filled up.
		So I got curious, actually obsessed, began trying to measure the depth of the hole.
		I emptied three fishing reels of about 1,500 yards of monofilament trying to determine the depth.
		Soon I was buying fishing line in bulk.
		So far, I've sunk about 80,000 feet of line into the hole without reaching bottom.
		My wife works at a local university with a geology department.
		We hope to get some professional scholarly help in determining the depth of the hole as far as I can tell.
		There's nothing else particularly strange about it except for two other things.
		Dogs refuse to get within 100 feet of the hole.
		Birds won't sit on the retaining wall or metal door.
		Another strange thing is there's no echo when you yell into the hole.
		Indeed, I've never heard anything hit bottom when tossed in.
		We once tossed in an old refrigerator, and we never heard it hit bottom, no crash, splash, or crunch.
		I hope your listeners can help with possible explanations.
		I'm wondering if this, based on my measurements thus far, might be the deepest hole on earth.
		Signed, Mel Waters.
		Well, you know me.
		I get a fact like this, and I jump right on it.
		So I called Mel in the middle of the night.
		We put him on the air.
		Last hour of the show, last week, and we got the story of Mel's hole.
		But now, Mel's Hole Part 2, I get the following facts.
		Earlier today, Art, you're receiving this fact simultaneously with the facts I attempted to send you earlier today.
		Much has developed since the first facts.
		I'll try to explain as rationally as possible what has transpired since my earlier facts.
		Around 1 p.m., I drove to Yakima to shop at the Costco there.
		On my way back, I decided to stop at the property.
		When I got there, my access road was blocked by military personnel that were armed.
		I noticed that several pieces of yellow gear had entered and exited my property based on the direction of their thread.
		I asked one of the guards, what's going on?
		He said, there was a plane crash on the property.
		I said, well, that's strange.
		I told him there's no smoke.
		I don't see any in the distance.
		He asked who I was, and I let him know I own the property.
		I then asked to talk to the officer in charge.
		A non-uniformed man came up to my suburban and let me know that I won't have access to my property until the crash has been completely investigated.
		I mentioned the yellow gear and the lack of smoke and that they were on my property.
		I was told by this man that it's not necessarily my property and that it would be very easy to find a drug lab on my property.
		Well, I got the drift.
		I asked if I could leave.
		He said, sure, don't come back until we contact you.
		I asked if he wanted a way to contact me.
		He said, they know how to contact me.
		I said, I suppose you don't want me to talk to anybody about this.
		He said, nobody would believe it anyway.
		That's about it for now.
		Oh, I talked to one of my neighbors earlier today, and he told me something very interesting.
		He said that some time ago, he was driving up to the hole at night and thought he saw the most bizarre thing.
		He said he saw a beam of solid black coming out of the then uncovered hole.
		I said, what do you mean?
		He said he saw something blacker than black coming out of the hole, like a searchlight reaching into the sky as far as he could see.
	So there you have it.
	There actually is more.
	Here is from the state of Washington.
	Here is Mel.
	Mel.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Art, Bell, and listeners.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When I got this second facts from you, I called you up, and you were totally, totally freaked out.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God, I was.
		I'll tell you.
		I feel a lot better now, let me tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you were just a pile of nerves when I talked to you.
		Now, explain again.
		You went up to your property.
		You were going to examine the hole because we were talking about it.
		I'm sure you had interest.
		And they stopped you there, huh?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, originally, after the show on Friday night, I went out there in the evening and noticed there was some helicopter activity around the property.
		There was further helicopter activity the next day.
		And so I figured that clearly somebody out there listens to your program.
		Yes.
		And I think...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This certainly wasn't intentional.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, when we talked yesterday, you felt that probably the best thing to do is to be public in this matter.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your best protection is to be public, Mel.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, anyway, so there was a lot of activity around there.
		And, you know, I've had some thoughts about this.
		And if they knew where the hole was, I would imagine that they could take some readings of the depth of the hole from, Like satellites?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know about that.
		I'm sure they have a way to measure it from ground.
		I'm not sure about satellites.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, we did have a lot of hovering up there in the air, I'll tell you that.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		So we did have that situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they stopped you, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, there was a barrier there?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was on, I'll tell you, I'm getting a little confused about days.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I guess it's now Tuesday morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		But since what they had originally there was a barrier.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Not a barrier, but just armed soldiers, basically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Armed soldiers.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Armed soldiers.
		Since then, they have erected some further down the road.
		I mean, basically, there's the road, there's the access road, and then finally you kind of meander into the property.
		They now have jersey barriers at the road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are those?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Jersey barriers.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Those are kind of like big chunks of concrete.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, like the bomb barriers they have at the White House.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		More or less.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		So you could squeeze maybe one vehicle through there, but it's definitely being controlled over there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, this is your property, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got the deed to this property.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		This is, well, mine and the bank's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you and the bank, you know, we're all in the same situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they won't let you own your own property, and they're claiming there was a plane that crashed.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		That was the thing.
		And I said, well, where's the smoke?
		I've seen plane crashes before.
		There's got to be smoke.
		And, you know, again, I asked to talk to the officer in charge there.
		And I figure, you know, one of these military types that come up, and I don't know, maybe he was just dressed in civilian clothes because, you know, the nature of what happened there.
		But, you know, he told me that I won't be able to go out there until the accident's been investigated.
		And I was insistent about my property rights.
		And he seemed to indicate that this might not necessarily be my property in regards to the drug lab.
		But the problem is I do have a sort of a lab on the property.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, no, wait a minute.
		You have a sort of lab?
		What kind of lab?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, I work or working in the alternative health field here on the property.
		That's one of the reasons this can all come out now.
		I imported some plant life from northern Nevada.
		There were Native American plants that the Indians used there for treatment of various illnesses, mostly cold and flu.
		Anyway, so we, because of the nature of the climate and it's very similar to northern Nevada, we thought we would cultivate these plants and then use it as a cure.
		It's a very effective cure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not a narcotic, is it?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		No, it's not narcotics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then what the hell are they talking about drug lab?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is a lab there, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, and you are, but there's no, there's no, you're not cranking out crank or methamphetamine or anything.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but if they had, for instance, if they found like it was a drug lab, they could seize my property.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it was their way of telling you, listen, brother, stay away, let us do what we're doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or, you know, we might find a drug lab here, and then it wouldn't be your property anymore, and you might even be in jail?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so they were clearly letting me know, and my feeling was that they were in control.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what have we got?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We got some kind of national security hole now, or is it what?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, I assume by now they've made a lot of determinations about it, and it sounds like it's something they want.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Today on my answering machine, I had a message from my real estate agent.
unidentified		Oh?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		And he says that he had someone who is very interested rather in purchasing my property and would make me a very generous offer.
		Now, I haven't gotten back to him, but I think we can put two and two together here.
		Somebody wants to get their hands on my property.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what are you going to do, Mel?
		Are you going to accept the, quote, generous offer and get out of this with your skin intact in a few bucks?
		Or are you going to fight?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a good question.
		That's one of the reasons why I didn't get back to my agent today, you know, is that I wanted to sit down and think about it before I did anything.
		I don't know what their so-called very generous offer is.
		But on one side, you have a possible drug lab, and on the other side, you have a very generous offer.
		And so I would kind of be curious to know what their generous offer was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the carrot stick approach, no question about it.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're working me both ends here, I think.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		And I'm, you know, like I say, I feel a lot calmer about this now than I did before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you were almost panicked, weren't you?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		It was just a little bit too much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you did some measurements.
		People were asking about the weight of the line that you were putting into the hole.
		And so what have you determined?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I did some real, real quick and dirty work here with this here.
		First of all, when I was out there on the weekend, I was able to actually measure or weigh the line that's in the hole.
		And basically, I tied it onto one of these little fishermen's scales, okay?
		And, you know, it's a little spring-operated thing there.
		But I had a weight on that, including the one-pound sinker on there.
		It looks like it weighs about 17, 18 pounds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What does?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		The line that's in the hole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In totality?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the entire weight of the line.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Basically, the line weighs 10 ounces for every thousand yards.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so 17 or 18 pounds.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a 20-pound test line, right?
		And you have got one pound down at the end of it tied on the end of it, right?
		That's right.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		So one of the things is it's, and this has become a moot point at this point, but if I drop much more line down there, and based on what your caller said, this line will break probably at the top of the line because that's where all of the pressure will be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you believe you're down 80,000 feet?
unidentified		Yeah.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, without a doubt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		80,000 feet?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		With, what is that, four zeros on there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's about miles, 5,280 feet.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I believe I haven't done the math on there.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I always forget how long a mile is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long have you owned this property with a hole?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		We've had the property for about four years now.
		And, you know, the guy that had it there had been there for a long time.
		I believe he'd been there for over 40 years.
		It's very rustic.
		I think I might have indicated to you.
		We do not have electricity there.
		We do not have phone service.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's just raw property, right?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have some buildings and the housing structures.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		All of those were basically damaged with the heavy snowfall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Mel.
		That's right.
		Recent snowfall.
		Mel, hold on.
		We'll be back to you after the bottom of the hour, all right?
		Stay right there.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 24, 1997.
		The devil went down to Georgia, he was looking for a soul to steal.
		He was in a bind because he was way behind and he was willing to make a deal.
		When he came across this young man sewing on a fiddle and playing it hot, and the devil jumped up on a hickory stump and said, Boy, let me tell you what.
		I guess you didn't know it, but I'm a fiddle player too.
		And if you care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you.
		Now, you play pretty good fiddle, boy, but give the devil his due.
		I bet a fiddle of gold against your soul because I think I'm better than you.
		The boy said, my name's Johnny, and it might be a sin.
		But I'll take your bet, you're going to regret, cause I'm the best it's ever been.
		Johnny, Rossett, you're a fool and play your fiddle heart.
		I'll tell you the George, the devil's human heart.
		And if you win, you get the daddy fiddle, bet of gold.
		But if you lose, the devil gets your soul.
		But if you lose, the devil gets your soul.
		The devil opened up his case and he said, I'll start this show.
		And fire flew from his fingertips as he rolled up his bow.
		And he pulled the bow across the strings and it made an evil hit.
		And the band of demons.
		She's got better days.
		She turned a music fun.
		You won't have to thank her twice.
		She's pure as New York snow.
		She's got better days besides.
		It should be, she needs you.
		Hover back to just to please you.
		Just because you know.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired February 24th, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, everybody.
		Good morning, actually.
		Morning, I believe, just about everywhere but Hawaii, perhaps, and out in the Pacific, as the darkness races across.
unidentified		Shhhhhh!
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of February 24th, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have got to get up to my website.
		You have got to get there.
		They wrote a big article that appeared in Sunday's Washington Post about the entire Courtney Brown affair.
		If you go to my website, you can read that article in the Washington Post.
		That's right.
		Sunday's Washington Post, big article about this program and about the Courtney Brown affair.
		In addition, the harp listening frequencies are up there.
		In addition, my guest tomorrow night coming, Emily Lau, we're going to be calling Hong Kong and interviewing Emily Lau, who is a legislator in Hong Kong.
		The information up there on that is available.
		John Shepard's strat photographs are up there.
		Wait till you see those.
		Whatever you do, don't miss John Shepard's strat photographs, the equipment he's put together to try and entice visitors from elsewhere.
		And he's been transmitting for years and years and years.
		And wait till you see what this guy has put together.
		It's unbelievable.
		All that and more up on the website right now, www.artbell.com.
		www.artbell.com.
		Now back to Mel.
		And Mel a lot of this audience would not have heard, but there was another little bit of the legend of the hole.
		Apparently, at some point, somebody threw a dead dog into the hole, right?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, I was telling you about that before the other night.
		And, yeah, people throw everything in there.
		There's dead cows going down the hole.
		There's, you know, sheep, whatever.
		You name it's gone down there.
		One guy threw his old hunting dog down into the hole, I guess, as a form of burial.
		And the story that I heard was that the guy, the hunter, was out there hunting one day and he saw his old departed dog.
		It looked exactly the same.
		In fact, it was wearing the same collar and the same tags on it.
		So he was absolutely, the story is, they were like, absolutely believe the dog came back somehow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you believed it to the degree that you changed your will so that when you die, they were going to throw your body into the hole, right?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		When I'm gone, I'm going to the hole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, but maybe not now, huh?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a matter for conjecture.
		Today, I didn't have a chance to mention this.
		After finding out the story about the black beam, the other day I thought I'd go out there and do some more research amongst my neighbors who may have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That makes sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can't go on the property, you might as well talk to the neighbors.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		So I'll buy him a cup of coffee and find out a few things here.
		Anyway, I had talked to one gentleman who's really quite elderly and has lived in the area for a long time.
		But he said that originally, and this is going way back, so this must go back about 40, 50, maybe longer, that there was a series of, around the hole, there was a series of stone columns.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said stone columns and stone columns?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		And so I asked him, you know, could he like, you know, you know, I sketched out a little how the property looks there and see if he could place the stone columns on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		So, you know, he drew it on the napkin there, and I said, that's very interesting.
		Well, I had my PowerBook with me, and I pulled up a picture of Stonehenge.
		He says, that's exactly what the thing looked like.
		You're kidding.
		He said that they had these pillars lined up, you know, just like that.
		He says it wasn't, you know, it didn't have that thing on the top.
		They had some things on top of the tiller, Stonehenge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's really odd.
		Listen.
		You can't get photographs, Mel.
		I'm sorry to interrupt, but I asked you about photographs.
		I didn't let you close enough to take any photographs.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I was afraid to take pictures of the guards, to be honest with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I understand.
		How about a drawing, Mel?
		Can you get us a drawing?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I could do that.
		I had a question for you.
		The night that I talked to you, you said you've got another facts about another anomalous hole in the Colville area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's exactly right.
		I've got that fact.
		And I'll try and get to it.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		On Sunday, I listened to your show a bit, and you had Linda on talking about HARP.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Project HARP.
		No, HAARP is supposed to look for underground bunkers and tunnels and such.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, maybe it's looking at your hole.
		Who knows?
		Here's a fact for you.
		The following is a theory regarding Mel's property.
		One, imagine two naturally occurring iron vanes just happening to reach toward the Earth's surface around Manastas.
		Help me pronounce it.
		Manastash?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Manastash.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Washington.
		There is a tremendous amount of naturally generated high-voltage electricity deep in the Earth.
		What if the bottom of the hole on Mel's property is a naturally occurring focal point, a lot like the device that Mr. Markham built?
		The Earth could have its own, in effect, time machine.
		Over the centuries, through various quakes and so forth, all of the soil above the portal would have fallen into the bottom and been launched into some other time.
		This explains the lack of echoes in the apparent depth of the hole.
		Tell Mel to lower a clock down there.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you, I was over at the university library today, and I wanted to find out a little bit more about Earth geology.
		And one of the things I found out is the crust, on average, on the Earth, is about 20 miles deep.
		Now, underneath the crust, and this is something that a lot of people don't know about, there's something known as the Moho discontinuity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The what?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		The Moho.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		M-O-H-O discontinuity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is that?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		It's named for a guy named Mohorovic.
		He was a Croatian seismologist.
		But I don't know much about seismology, but I'll tell you what I know about this discontinuity.
		P waves, and I guess those are seismic waves, through this discontinuity move faster than they do through the rest of the Earth.
		They like speed up.
		Normally they go like 7 kilometers per second.
		These are going like 8 kilometers per second when they go through there.
		And it's believed that it has to do with a chemical difference in the type in that area of the Earth.
		So you've got the crust, you have the MOLO discontinuity, then you have the mantle.
		And so that region is very little known, as you can well imagine, because you really can't get to it, at least not yet.
		And the scientists really don't understand that.
		But we have this thing that goes on underneath the crust that is very, very peculiar.
		And I just thought I might mention that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I don't know anything about that.
		That's very interesting.
		All I know is we had all kinds of cool plans.
		I mean, we were going to, I had, Mel, I'm telling you, I've got volunteers who are willing to go down in your hole.
		But now that's obviously not going to occur because they have your hole.
		I mean, this is outrageous.
		This is your property.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is my property.
		That's the credible thing.
		I could not step one inch onto my property.
		My deepest incursion only got me onto the access road.
		I was kept way away from that thing there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How far is it from the access road where you were stopped to the hole?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Oh, gosh.
		You'd have to travel.
		Oh, gosh.
		I would say it's from the access road kind of is very hilly ground over there, so you kind of have to go around all the low spots there.
		You might go about a mile and a half or more.
		You can't even see the little valley that I'm in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Before you began dropping this monofilament line into the hole with the weight, you threw an entire refrigerator down this hole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then listened and listened and listened and never heard a thing?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Nothing.
		Nothing.
		I mean, again, you know, the refrigerator, I didn't hear anything.
		I mean, I expected, you know, something that massive, you know, and that, you know, I expected something.
		But, you know, I've thrown things there that I knew would make interesting sounds, like television tubes, picture tubes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they explode.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, those are my favorite.
		And no, I couldn't get an implosion, explosion, or anything out of them.
		So I have not heard anything actually touch bottom in that thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's almost impossible, it seems.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if the hole right now, I don't know, is 15, 16, 17 miles, you know, how long would it take for the sound to travel back, you know, if it is hitting bottom?
		Let's say it's hitting bottom at, say, 15 miles.
		You know, how long would it take?
		Or would I hear it at all?
		You know, those are things, you know, I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
		I mean, you don't hear things that occur.
		Well, on the other hand, though, it's a channeled...
		I don't know the physics involved in such a deep hole.
		Have you ever heard of any other holes?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		No.
		That's why I was curious about the Colville hole.
		I did find out that actually the deepest mine is like 2.3 miles into the earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So this is way, way beyond anything that anybody's ever heard of.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that's a mine.
		That's a mine structure.
		Another thing I was curious about was that channel that they built underneath the English Channel in France.
		Not how deep it is, but how long is it?
		Is it several miles?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I almost rode on it.
		It's funny you should mention.
		I almost rode on it last time I was in London, but I didn't.
		So I don't exactly know.
		I saw the entrance to it.
		I rode right by the entrance to it.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I would be leery of going into that thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you certainly wouldn't want to go in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you go in this hole, your hole, if you could?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I anticipate what will be going down into hole in the future will be federal prisoners, I imagine.
		We'll be going down there on a non-voluntary basis, I assume, because I mean, you know, if we're talking to government here, which it is obviously the government that's interested in this, they have every piece of technology they could ever want.
		They could send down cameras, they could send down whatever they wanted.
		So I assume at some point if they determined that it was safe for a human being to go down, they'll send a person down.
		And they take air readings, if it's got good air, bad air, find out what's going on.
		I'd say that they would do that.
		Again, I'm just like poor ordinary little guy here who doesn't have a lot of technology as bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how would you like to get a whole bunch of citizens together, Mel, and go marching on that property and challenge their authority to take your property like that?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, we talked about that over coffee with the guy that told me about the stones out there, you know, saying, you know, I mean, you know, we're pretty, we're big on property rights here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is your hole, not theirs.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, we're, I mean, you know, very, very militant about that.
		And they say, you know, how can they do that here?
		But, you know, the truth is, you know, if they say a plane crashed onto property, and I didn't have any evidence of that.
		But I mean, you know, I expect to see some smoke.
		But, you know, if they're telling people this is an accident scene, we've got to investigate, you know, FAA and all that business there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did they tell you what kind of airplane, civilian military or what?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, are there any reports?
		I mean, after all, you can check on plane crashes, right?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, over here, if a kid throws a snowball at your car, in their time, it makes a newspaper.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I mean, so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there should have been big news if the plane went down.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you bet.
		I mean, we've had planes go down here before.
		I mean, we've had planes go down, you know, on the other side of the mountains and makes newspaper here.
		I mean, you know, that's a big deal here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, look, look, then instead of a crowd of civilians, maybe that was a bad idea.
		How about a crowd of media?
		I mean, I could get Seattle media by your side and go marching right up to that group.
		Right up to the barrier.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		and i have and then i end up being a convicted drug cooker i am you know that that's that's you know i Those were the exact, those were almost verbatim, the exact words they said.
		You know, you know, you know, we could find a drug lab on this property if you get my drift.
		You know, just very easily.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Mel, let's take a few calls, see if anybody has any ideas.
		This one has me stumped.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel.
unidentified		Hello.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		This is Robert in Milwaukee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Robert.
unidentified		Hello.
		All right.
		I just had a thought connecting Stephen Greer at CCETI with what he said concerning interplanetary travel and drew a connection to the cloning.
		I find it very interesting that the scientists say they're not going to consider cloning humans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, baloney.
		That's a bunch of crap.
		You know, don't listen to that.
		Excuse me for a second, Mel, on the subject of cloning.
		You know, all day I've been listening to this drivel from the scientists about the cloning thing, that we're not going to do it.
		Oh, well, yes, this technology will allow cloning, but we're not going to do it.
		That is utter garbage.
		And when we get around to talking about cloning, which we will, we're going to talk about it in an entirely different vein because unless you are naive beyond belief, spending your time talking about whether we should or shouldn't, will or won't is baloney because we will.
		I guess you can say, should we?
		But we will, I guarantee we're going to clone.
		Anyway, that is not tonight's subject or the moment's subject.
		Mel's hole is, first time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hey, Mel?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, hi there.
unidentified		Hi there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Oregon.
unidentified		My name's Pete.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Pete.
unidentified		Okay.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Where in Oregon are you?
unidentified		In Corvallis?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Corvallis.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I know what that is, sure.
unidentified		Okay, yeah, I was listening to the show, and I guess it's a delayed broadcast out here.
unidentified		I was listening to earlier stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, this is about Mel's hole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, sir.
unidentified		And yeah, I would just say to Mel that you need to get in contact with just about every media person that you can think of out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's done that with me, and I agree with you.
		I just said to Mel that he should take, you know, like an army of cameras out there.
		But he's afraid that he's going to end up in jail.
		Now, he's got a point.
		Suppose the army of cameras with Mel and Toe arrive, and there's feds there saying, sorry, this is a crime scene.
		Oh, are you, is this Mel Waters?
		Well, you're under arrest, Mel.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have to tell you that as far as what I believe is now that the surface of the hole there has been, you know, there's a lot of snow on the property.
		It's been covered up with snow.
		I think that's what the yellow gear was there for, just to groom it all so you can't see it from there.
unidentified		Well, I think there's a lot of questions that need to be answered.
		And too, if the military's out there, if there was a plane crash, I think the media would want to know what kind of plane it was, who was flying it.
		I will.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, you see, The thing is, I'm the one that's saying that there was a plane crash.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Mel, I'll tell you something.
		And for what it's worth, if it was a civilian airplane that crashed, that would be in the news.
		If it was a regular military airplane that crashed, that would be in the news.
		But there are some type of aircraft that crash, Mel, that it, believe me, it does not make the news.
		We have them out here.
		They crash, and you see the military cordon off miles of area, and there's no news about it at all.
		You know, there's secret aircraft that fly and crash.
		But I don't think that's what happened there, and neither do you.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't believe that anything crashed there because I didn't have the smell of the smoke.
		I didn't see any smoke.
		It was a beautiful, beautiful, clear day.
		I mean, if there was any, and it wasn't particularly windy, if there was a crash, there'd be evidence of it.
		There'd be smoke popped.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you one thing.
		I would be very cautious, Mel, about accepting a generous offer for the property with the hole, because you know what?
		No matter what else, Mel, your hole is worth millions of dollars if it's what you say it is.
		If it's as deep as you say it is, man, you could fence a property and sell tickets.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think I also mentioned that they actually moved onto the property several mobile, those like temporary buildings.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Oh, moved that onto the property.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, one of the neighbors says he saw almost like a parade of these things going out there, like three, four of them, plus some generator equipment there, too.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Good, all that stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long after the broadcast did this parade begin?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was Saturday night I was out there pretty late.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we did the broadcast between, I think, 3 and 4 o'clock Pacific time Saturday morning.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so I got some sleep, you know, and I went out there in the evening and did my weighing of the line in the hole.
unidentified		And that's when I saw the first helicopter out there.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		And that was a very strange experience.
		You know, I actually looked up at this thing here for about 20 minutes.
		There were more helicopters out there Saturday morning, early, several of them coming in and out.
		That was Sunday morning.
		And then by today, the chronology is getting real confusing for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, yesterday, I guess, really.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, I lost a day in here.
		But yeah, what they saw is actually some mobile buildings being moved onto the property.
		Apparently some generators.
		There, again, I have no power or phone on the property.
		We use cell phone if we need to make a call, and we used to use solar out there to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I feel in a way guilty, Mel, but your original facts got me going.
		And there was no way not to follow up on that, and I guess once we aired that, it was too late.
		It was a done deal.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, when I originally approached this thing here, you know, what I wanted to do was to get some good ideas about the nature of this thing here.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I guess I was pretty naive about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Mel, one thing I've got to ask you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't think me rude, but I've got to ask, Mel, that's not a drug lab you've got out there, is it?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		We are working with Native American plants.
		They're plants that Native Americans used in making what they would.
		This was a Northern Nevada doctor back in World War I time who found a cure for the flu.
		He gave this stuff to his, he was a military doctor, gave it to the people under his command.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Mel, hold on.
		We're going to do a break here at the top of the arrow.
		We'll be back to you.
		Mel Waters, the guy with the endless hole, is my guest.
		We will start taking some calls.
		Anybody have any advice for Mel or thoughts on all of this?
		Yikes.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 24, 1997.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 24th, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just went, and those of you who listened last week toward the end of the show, a horrible incident occurred with super glue, which I really don't even want to go into right now, but a bunch of carts, you know, carts that we play, like this one you're listening to right now with bumper music and stuff, were in a cart rack, and my cart rack came out of the wall.
		And it's in there with some mollies.
		So I went and got some super glue and tried to glue it back in, and that's when the disaster began.
		I just tried to pull my Pink Floyd cart out of the cart rack, and I noticed that I had glued my carts into the cart rack along with wherever else the glue went, which I don't want to discuss.
		The glue obviously got on these carts and glued them to the plastic cart rack.
		So now the cart rack is off again, and a portion of the cart rack is in my Pink Floyd cart with peas on it, so I can't even get the cart in the machine anymore.
		I'm telling you, folks, I'm telling you, you get sick, you get stupid.
		That's all there is to it.
		We're going to get back to Mel.
		We're going to get back to Mel in a moment with his sad story of the hole, deepest hole maybe in the whole world, as a matter of fact.
		We don't know.
		We'll probably never know now.
		Now that's the sad part of it.
unidentified		The End.
		End.
		you you you you You're listening to Art Bells Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 24, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music Music Music Music Back now to Mel and the dilemma of the endless hole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mel, are you there?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I am here, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, there are some people with questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have anything else you want to say?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Just that, you know, just after beginning to explore this thing here, you know, with the help of your audience and, you know, further questioning on, you know, people, you know, that live around in my area here, asking them, you know, really, do you remember anything strange about the hole in particular?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would say a resurrected dog would be pretty good.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		It just becomes more and more mysterious.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I have no way of understanding any of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would say a darker-than-dark beam that seems to go straight up into the sky would be pretty strange.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		That to me was utterly fascinating.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		The hole itself is dark, but for it to send out darkness into the sky to me was just a matter of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't begin to explain it.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it was, you know, the way he described it, it was just.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		Look, let's bring some people on.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel.
		Hello, where are you?
unidentified		Yeah, this is Philip in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Philip.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you doing?
unidentified		Great.
unidentified		Love your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Mel, what type of work do you do for a living?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm a retired person.
unidentified		I get no criminal record of any kind?
		Pardon me?
		No criminal record or anything?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		No, no criminal record.
unidentified		I'd find a lawyer and get a local group of citizens and press and militia.
		And that's a good reason why we need the militias in this country is to prevent this type of situation from happening.
		The government coming in, taking over your property, threatening your life.
		You know, I would call their bluff.
		I don't see how they can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's easy to say, you know, from a distance.
		I'm not sure I'd call their bluff.
		I've got to be honest.
		Look, if you had a property, sir, and you're trying to get on it, and they had it all roped off, and they said, go away, I would come back with a gun.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well.
unidentified		And they haul in a bunch of people.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Then you know what you'd be?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd be a dead martyr.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You take a gun up to a military.
unidentified		I'd rather have the press with me, and I mean, I would not go at this alone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
unidentified		You know, but they're not going to drag in a bunch of military trailers to examine a drug lab.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I agree.
		That's just not logical.
		I agree with you.
		I agree with you.
		So they're obviously after the secret of the hole.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Sam from San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Sam.
unidentified		I just got a question there for Mel.
unidentified		If there was any way that you could charter a plane so you can do a flyover of your property?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I suppose I could do that.
		I mean, there is a small airport here in Ellensburg, and I'm sure that that can be arranged for.
		Well, what I'd be interested to know is if actually planes can fly over that area, and I suppose I can sort of find that out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To get some photographs.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but again, I do believe that the hole itself has been covered over with the surrounding snow.
		They probably did a really nice job with what they brought in there of keeping it invisible from the air.
		That was my speculation of why they brought the yellow gear out as to kind of dress it up a little bit there so that anyone casually going over, they wouldn't notice anything.
		That's just my opinion.
unidentified		Okay, and another thing is I got a little assumption of why none of the animals want to go by there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
unidentified		Maybe they see the apparition of the dead dog, and it's warning them not to go there.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
		I mean, that's pure conjecture.
		Who knows?
		But no animals will go near it?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		You know, the observations I made was my dogs and other people's dogs that come visit.
		They won't go wood, but go there.
		If I put them on a leash and try to drag them there, they'll dig their feet in there, and it just will not budge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what, Mel?
		I once was on a trip with my family.
		We used to go to Florida, drive to Florida in the winter, and we once got near a slaughterhouse on one of our stops.
		And man, I had a golden retriever, and that golden wouldn't get anywhere.
		He did the same thing.
		He dug his feet in, and I don't care how you'd pull, he could smell the death.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, when I was in college, I had a, brought from school a human skull, and I brought it home, put on the coffee table.
		My cat walked into the room, and he saw that thing, and the cat literally jumped backwards about eight feet when he saw that.
		Now, how did a cat know?
		Sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They sense these things.
		There's something about it.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Mel.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
unidentified		This is Scott from Kirkland, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Oh, hi.
		Not only from Kirkland.
		I've only been over on my side of the mountains for a little while, but born and bred in Yakima and a graduate of Central Washington University.
		Spent a lot of time in Ellsburg.
		In fact, I sat around with one of my old professors, who is one of these guys who has been living in the area for, oh, God, forever.
		And he actually had told me rumors one morning over coffee, sitting down in one of the little restaurants about a great big hole that nobody knew the bottom of.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		We'd actually heard of this.
		This was back, oh, 1990, 1989.
		Sometime about in there, and we even heard that.
		And the one thing that really surprises me, this guy that was saying, well, I'd take a gun in the media up there.
		What a lot of people don't realize, Art, and I think that most people don't realize, is he lives about, oh, depending on where the hole is, between five and ten miles away from one of the largest military reservations in the Pacific Northwest, possibly the western United States.
		The Akima Firing Center is where they did all of the training for Desert Storm.
		They have a bunch of satellite dishes up there that theoretically don't exist, that they use for talking to satellites that aren't there.
		And all sorts of things, very interesting things go on up there.
		And so something like this, a hole appearing within spitting distance of this military reservation, it doesn't really surprise me a whole lot that they had trucks and stuff out there in a lightning bulb.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		email do we know how long that whole is actually been there i mean Before that, I don't know if anyone owned the property.
		I suppose I could check on that to see, you know, from the records there if there's been any ownership of it or whatever.
		But I can trace it back for a good solid 40 years, at least, you know, from the verbatim accounts from the previous owner.
		Again, I don't really know.
		I would venture to say that given the nature of it, that it's been there for a very, very long time I'm talking, you know, not just decades there.
		I mean, how can this thing just be there?
		You know, it has to be ancient.
unidentified		Well, I wish you the best in figuring out what it is.
		And we're just going to, we're all of us local here.
		We're going to keep tuned in to see if there's anything worth driving back across the mountains to hang out and see.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've just been out here for just a couple of years.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I decided to retire out here and pursue my interest in alternative health.
unidentified		And this is what I get.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, it's turned into a nightmare.
		An absolute nightmare.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel.
unidentified		Hello?
unidentified		Yeah, about that hole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		There was a Rod Sterling thing I saw in TNT, I think, about four years ago.
		He was hosting it.
		It was like, it must have been early 80s, late 70s.
		And there were reenactments of these true occurrences.
		And there was a hole story about a boy.
		It looked like it took place when they still rode horses or something.
		And a boy woke up with his dog missing or something.
		And he went looking for his dog and fell into a hole, except he didn't fall in.
		He hung onto the edge and crawled out and went and told his dad.
		And his dad went out there and they heard noises coming out of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God.
unidentified		And so they didn't think it was the dog making the noises because it sounded real spooky and stuff.
		So he went to town and got a bunch of guys to go out there with him.
		And I guess a bunch of guys went out there and they thought, well, let's lower a rope in and somebody's going to have to go down on it.
		Sure.
		And so the dad said, well, I'll do it since you're looking for your dog and stuff.
		And they lowered him down and he made this scream, deadly scream.
		And so they brought him up and I guess after that, after they brought him up, he went clinically insane for the rest of his life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hope you're not in any danger of going clinically insane, Mel.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I hope not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you sounded close to being discombobulated when I spoke with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When was that?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Sunday afternoon, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was that Sunday afternoon?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Sunday evening?
		Something like that.
		Yeah, I was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you called me up and you were just a wreck.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was any negative, fearful emotion I had it there.
		I mean, I was shaking.
		I was sweating.
		My body was doing things that I couldn't explain.
		I was a wreck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think about the idea of your not even going out, but sending the media out?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I could do that in terms of saying, I think there's something interesting going on over there, and send them out there.
		And what I assume that'll happen is if they did go, if they thought it was a valid story, they'll say, look, we're conducting military exercises on this land here, and there's nothing for you to see.
		And I think that'll be it.
		Again, this guy was real clear to me.
		He said, look, I asked him, I said, look, I suppose you don't want me to talk to anybody about this.
		And he said, hey, no one's going to believe anyway.
		You could tell them anything you want.
		Why are they going to believe you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, first time call online, you're on the air with Mel.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello there.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Maxine in Southern California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Maxine.
unidentified		I am very interested in the conversation that's been going on with Mel.
unidentified		I heard the program the other night, and, you know, he's really in a big dilemma.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he is now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I feel somewhat responsible.
unidentified		Yeah, I understand that.
		You know, the first thing he needs to do is get a good lawyer, somebody that's prominent like that.
		I can't recall his name, Spence from Wyoming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jerry Spence.
unidentified		Jerry Spence, somebody like that.
		And maybe your listeners could do a writing to Janet Reno, the President or the Vice President, on his behalf.
		Keep him in the background because with the power they've got, you know, they can just wrap him up and we might never hear from him again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess I'm going to have to stay in touch with you, Mel, to be sure that you don't meet some.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, they're working me from both sides here, as far as I can tell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What it sounds like, yeah.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, it looks like I guess it's like the godfather.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		They want to make me an offer I can't refuse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, there's a lot of armchair soldiers out there, Mel, and they're going to say, what's the matter with you?
		You've got to get in there and fight.
		Tell them to go to hell.
		But the fact of the matter is, if I were in your situation, I might be very disinclined to fight.
		I might be much more inclined to take a, quote, generous offer and get out from under while I can.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		If I actually get to talk to somebody in a position of authority who wants to sit down and talk Turkey, and I'm not talking about my real estate agent, honestly, I'm going to ask for a relocation to another country is what I'm going to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to be sent out of the country?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'd like to be sent to Australia, for instance, what Standeo is, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Be an expatriate.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		So someplace that's geologically sound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel, who's still an American at this moment.
unidentified		Hi, my name's Brad.
unidentified		I'm calling from Lexington, Kentucky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Brad.
unidentified		Hi.
		When I heard about this hole, it kind of reminded me of the story with the hole they dug.
		I think it was in Europe or Scandinavia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Scandinavia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Scandinavia.
unidentified		They lowered a microphone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'll tell you what.
		That was an Associated Press story, and they lowered a microphone in, and they heard the screaming, agonized sounds of thousands of people in agony, they said.
		That was an actual AP story.
		Now, it may have turned out to have been not true, but AP ran that story.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		So, I don't know.
unidentified		I mean, maybe it's the entrance to hell.
unidentified		I don't know.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		There isn't even an echo that comes out of this.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you don't even hear anything.
unidentified		And as far as the animals not wanting to go near it, you know.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But he says there's not a sound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's totally dead, right, Mel?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, unless you hit the side of the thing there, when you drop something in and it's like close to the surface, you know, you hear it there.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		But after a certain point, you wouldn't hear anything anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, when you dropped a refrigerator in, I'm curious how you can drop a refrigerator.
		Now, 9 feet, 9 inches, pretty good size, Diane.
		But how do you get the fridge in the middle to drop it so that you don't slam it into the sides?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, you get like one of your buddies over there, and you get it over there on its, you know, so it's like leaning over on its back, and you slide it over on the stone wall, and you just kind of give it a shove, and it just sort of goes straight down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that makes sense.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's not too difficult.
		I mean, we've been throwing stuff in that, you know, that hole of all sorts of descriptions here.
		And believe me, you know, we've done it.
		I mean, you know, it's, you know, a cow is a pretty big thing, but people have gotten cows down in there.
		You can just about throw anything down there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's actually almost disgusting.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, the bottom of the hole, if there is a bottom to the damn thing, must be truly disgusting, a mixture of horrible things of earth that should not have been thrown in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mel, can you hold on?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, I'll be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, we'll do one more half hour, and we'll be right back.
		It is a strange and wonderful world out there, is it not?
		Stay right there.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 24th, 1997.
		And I think to myself, what a wonderful world I see skies of blue, the clouds of white, the bright, blessed day, the dark say goodnight, and I think to myself,
		What a wonderful world The color of the world The color of
		the world The color of the world listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 24th, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		Mel is my guest.
		He's got a hole.
		Mel's hole, we call it.
		And now let's go back and give him a little challenge, all right?
		Mel, are you there?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I've got a couple of faxes here that are not kind, Mel.
		They say this man is lying.
		His voice is shaking so much.
		He's stuttering.
		He's searching for words.
		He's in a bind because you're paying attention to his fable.
		You know, it's a made-up story, they're saying.
		And you have to come up with something that would keep you from finding out about his lie.
		So here's another one.
		It says, Mel's hoax.
		Aren't you falling for another one?
		Well, I am a little naive, and I like stories like yours, Mel, and so I do tend to go for them.
		Is it, I mean, do you swear that this is absolutely the truth?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, I would rather not have talked Or called or faxed or anything in regards to this subject at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the people need to understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You faxed me, but I'm the one who called you.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I would have preferred, to be honest with you, to be there tomorrow morning letting a little more line down into the hall and just going along my merry way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then getting you on the air stopped all that and plus put the idiots there that are there taking hold of your...
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		A couple of days ago, we had this guy shoot a bunch of people on the Empire State Building.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		The Empire State Building's been there for like 60 years or whatever.
		And today I heard that they put metal detectors in the Empire State Building.
		Now, for 60 years, people believed that the Empire State Building was a safe place to be.
		That was belief.
		And in one day, people no longer believe.
		So beliefs change.
		And that's how I view beliefs.
		Should they have had a metal detector on it for 60 years?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, look, let me ask you this.
		You have neighbors.
		They know about the hole.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		They've been there.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		They put their trash in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They put their trash in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would any of your neighbors talk, or do you think they're scared now, too?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I'd be happy to talk to them and see if they want to talk to you.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, if they want to talk, I'll tax you a phone number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's great, Mel.
		Work on that one.
		That's at least one other angle to approach this with.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		I'm in Cameron, Texas.
		All right.
		Gentlemen, how wide is that hole?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		It's nine and three-quarters feet.
unidentified		Nine and three-quarters feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nine feet in diameter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nine feet, nine inches in diameter, he said.
unidentified		Okay, Mel, through the library, why don't you go tomorrow and they can network books all over the United States.
		And there's one called The Phantom of the Poles by William Reed.
		And there's one called The Hollow Earth by Dr. Raymond Bernard.
		And I'll guarantee you that'll open your eyes because the earth is hollow.
		They've never proved the earth is solid.
		And if it pole is totally a hole and it's about 1,400 miles wide.
		And people can't see across it.
		And they don't realize they're going into the earth.
		But Admiral Byrd flew 1,700 miles inside the earth, and they shut it up.
		So the government's up to something here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, as a matter of fact, here's the facts, Mel, saying, regarding the hole, it sounds to me like the government's going to take the hole and give Mel the shaft.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		That is what it sounds like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well?
unidentified		Another fantastic story art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
unidentified		I appreciate you taking my call.
		Sure.
		I have a friend of mine who also believes in the Hollow Earth story.
		And I've read two scriptures in the Bible, which I won't quote because I know you don't like to talk about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		But there's one that talks about making graven images of things.
		and that would be even things that are under the earth and then there's a Well, there are scriptures in the Bible that also allude to a hollow earth.
		Oh, oh, oh.
		And so there's one in Revelation that talks about they were looking all around to try and find somebody who was worthy to open the scrolls or the seals or something.
		And even under the earth, no one was found.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mel, are you a religious person?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't categorize myself as a religious person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then you don't necessarily feel there's any religious significance to the whole?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I'm starting to believe that there's some supernatural significance to the whole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, the dog part and the other thing about the beam of the blackness, that certainly would lead in that direction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But on the other hand, things that we don't understand may seem as magic.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, they do.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		And that's so, you know, those are things that I cannot understand, you know, and so I have to say I don't understand it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, look here.
		Do you want any help from your representative?
		In other words, it may be that your state senator or your local representative, congressional representative, would help you out.
		And we could help you out with that, too.
		In other words, fight power with power.
		That's an idea from John in Reading, California, and it's not a bad one necessarily.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, my local congressperson is Doc Hastings out here.
		And he is one of those guys that believes in property rights and so forth.
		And so that would be an avenue.
		Again, this is an opportunity for me to gain as much information as I'm also disseminating.
		And I'm going to have to make a decision.
		When I go in one direction or go in another direction, that will be it.
		There's not going to be a point where I could take it back.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's another one for you to consider.
		I've got connections at Strange Universe, Hard Copy, all those kinds of shows.
		I could have those people in contact with you in two seconds flat, Mel.
		Once you decide which way you want to go, believe me, I can have either media power or a government power, representation to help you out here.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, again, I'm going to have to, the main thing I have to do is decide, is this tantalizing enough for me to move forward and say, well, I want to claim this as my own.
		I want to deal with it on my own basis.
		Do I want to get out of it?
		Do I want to get into trouble?
		I mean, these are the considerations that I have here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here's somebody saying, what about your local sheriff?
		Now, that is an idea.
		They're usually pretty friendly guys.
		Do you have a good local sheriff?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		We have a local police department here, and we have the sheriff's department.
		And they're all great.
		They're all wonderful people.
		Every last one of them is a great guy.
		But I don't even know how I would approach this here.
		My property is being illegally used by the project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's no question about it.
		No question about it.
		And you have the deed, right?
		You can prove this?
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I can prove it's my property.
		What I don't know is how can the government use your property?
		At what point do they develop an authority to use your property?
		Let's say a plane crashed there, which is what I was told.
		Well, then they'd have a right to salvage the plane, do whatever they're going to do.
		They would establish a right to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Here's Daryl in Rancho Mirage who says, kidding aside, Mel's hole, if in fact he is sitting on top of an access point to an extraordinary depth, he's also right on top of a whole bunch of trouble.
		The potential military scientific significance can go as deep as one's imagination allows.
		One thing is for sure.
		The government doesn't have this kind of response to retrieve an old refrigerator.
		I think Mel better get an attorney, Presto, if he doesn't have one already.
		Remember, if they accuse him of a drug-related violation, they can reco that property in a flash.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		That is exactly what I believe.
		And again, I have something on the property.
		I have an old prowler trailer out there that's been gutted.
		And it's where I do a lot of the work I do with the plants they have.
		And, you know, I have solvents there.
		I have alcohol there.
		I have drying equipment out there.
		And, you know, it would take them 30 seconds to make it look like a methamphetamine lab or whatever it is.
		I mean, it just, you know, it's already my lab.
		I mean, that's where I do my work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you.
		All right.
		First time caller line.
		You're on the air with Mel.
		Hello.
		Where are you?
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		I'm calling from Reno, Nevada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reno.
		Okay.
		Speak up good and loud for us.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
unidentified		I'm sorry, but I just feel like you've got somebody there that's got quite an imagination.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're talking to them.
		So, I mean, I've just said the same thing to them.
		Some of the facts that I've been receiving are saying that, obviously, people don't believe.
unidentified		I just hope that you don't get all wound up in this like you did the Courtney Brown thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, I get wound up in all kinds of things, dear.
		I'm not going to stop.
		That's what I do.
		Don't worry about me.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
unidentified		Well, I was just...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's here.
unidentified		Mel, I think that you're looking for some kind of notoriety for some reason, and I think that you think everybody is pretty gullible that is listening to Art Bell's program, and that you're taking unfair advantage of him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you've got to remember, dear, I called him.
unidentified		But didn't he originally call me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Faxed me?
		Yes, he did.
		Well, he faxed me with information.
		As a matter of fact, I read the facts at the beginning of the program with Mel tonight, and I read it over there.
		So he didn't anticipate that I would call him, didn't ask me to call him.
		And I had to look up at the top of the facts to get the fax ID to call him.
		So that's the truth of the matter.
		I have no way of knowing, of course, whether Mel's weaving us a story or not, except his word.
		And I can't imagine why he'd lie.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		To be honest with you, and since you're from Reno, and if I wanted to be on the air talking about something, I'd much rather talk about my work with Indian herbal remedies.
		That would be the thing that I would prefer to be talking about.
		It just so happens that the materials I'm working from are from northern Nevada, from your local Indians out there, and they're the ones that have provided me with the line of research that I'm doing.
		I have, you know, this whole thing is secondary, you know, but if I had a topic I really wanted to speak about, that would be it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, I understand.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of February 24th, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Yes, right.
unidentified		This is a skip in Sacramento, KSTE.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Couple things for you, sir.
unidentified		The hole that he is talking about, his 80,000 feet, comes up to 15.15 miles deep.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Sounds right.
unidentified		The Mohorobostic discontinuity talking about came in the International Geophysical Year.
		I believe that was back in the early 80s, maybe even the 50s.
		I'm getting so old.
		I don't remember now.
		It's called IGGI, the International Geophysical Year, where all the world populations took part.
		Checking the depth of the shelf underneath the oceans and the molten mass down to the core and so on, how deep it was.
		There was a discontinuity.
		It wasn't even.
		And that's why it's called a discontinuity.
		It was made after this fellow Moharovistic.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
unidentified		Your glue stuff, you know, was developed for surgery for smashed spleens and kidneys.
unidentified		It made to glue skin better than anything else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, trust me, it works real well, sir.
		Thank you very much.
		It even glues carts into rocks.
		I don't want to talk about it.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Mel.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I think we just missed him.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Mel.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, Art and Mel.
unidentified		Hi, Aaron calling from Reno.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		I have a couple of questions in a comment.
unidentified		Mel, just, I don't know if anybody's asked you yet, but have you ever seen a UFO out around in that area on your property?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, good question.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		You know, out here, you're liable to see all sorts of things, and I myself have not seen anything personally.
		I mean, this is one of those areas that can get pretty remote in a hurry.
		You know, Ellensburg is like 30 miles away on either side from the nearest town.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Matter of fact, Mel, I've got a lot of confirmation of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Faxes and phone calls, people saying it is a very weird area.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they've heard stories there about holes.
		So, you know, this is not that far out.
		A lot of people are saying, yes, there's a lot of weird stuff going on in that area.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel.
unidentified		That's Fred from Sitka.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sitka.
unidentified		Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alaska, alright?
unidentified		Yeah, and just like to say that, geez, I thought the days of you'll just disappear with the Reagan administration.
		And Art, I'm very disappointed that you will not be coming to Sitka on your Alaska cruise.
		Well, you're going to be missing out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're hitting quite a few cities, sir, but Sitka is not one of them.
		Sorry about that.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel.
unidentified		This is Paul in Kansas City, and I want to tell Mel that I believe him entirely.
unidentified		And I think the Jerry Spence idea is a great idea, and it's probably a good story for Linda Moulton Howell to go check out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've already given it to Linda, as a matter of fact.
unidentified		Oh, that's great.
		And I think if he's told over 10 million people on the air that he's been threatened, that they're going to falsely accuse him of having a drug farm out there or something, and he got a really good lawyer like Jerry Spence, they would never be able to follow through on that.
		Especially if he had a bunch of media attention like Strange Universe and stuff out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was another idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a whole bunch of ideas here on the table.
unidentified		Yeah, I think that I really think he should go for it.
unidentified		And I totally disagree with that lady who thinks he just wants attention.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I appreciate the call.
		Thank you.
		I did call Mel, folks.
		That's the truth.
		Yeah, he faxed me.
		But I'm the guy who dug out the number and called him.
		He didn't really want to go on the air, for the record.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Finally, I got through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Art.
unidentified		Hello, Mel.
		How are you?
		Okay.
		Mel, now with this hole and these people who are on your land, you have to understand they are listening to this radio program right now.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I'm absolutely certain of it.
unidentified		And you also have to understand these are military spooks.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		They are doing whatever they're doing right now.
unidentified		And anything that you do through the standard channels, like getting a lawyer or anything along those lines, is going to serve only as a delay tactic.
		I would suggest to you that you do some research.
		If it was a plane crash, there is radar coverage of that area, I'm certain.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
unidentified		there would be a record of it somewhere well in less if there is a if it's on their Well, sir, wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, hold on.
		Look, I live out here in Nevada, and I can tell you because there's been some experimental planes that have crashed out here, and A, it does not get into the media, B, the military cordons off the entire area, and trust me, you don't get anywhere near it.
		I know personally that's true.
unidentified		All you need to do is contact one of the air traffic controllers for the area and find out if there's any record of anything in that area at that time.
		You can also find out, I mean, if it's an air crash, where's the NTSB?
		If it has anything to do with drugs, where's the DEA or the drug task force for that area, whatever it might be called?
		If there is anything to do with anything else as far as the geological properties of the area, you can find all this information out from USGS.
		You can get satellite photos and infrared.
		You can get anything you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, these are all good ideas.
		Although, I think the plane crash story is an obvious falsehood.
		It's a lie.
		Mel, again, they told you, look, they could find a drug lab there.
		So the plane crash story was obviously a cover, and the story about the lab was obviously a threat.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Plain and simple.
		So, my friend, I don't know what you're going to do now.
		And I guess you don't know.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to think about it.
		I'm going to think about it.
		I'm going to call the realtor tomorrow for one and ask him I would prefer not to talk to him, but talk to someone, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would ask him, too, who is making the offer?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They have to tell you who's making the offer.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		Well, you see, this property is not for sale.
		I mean, I don't have a listing out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but you can make an offer on anything, though.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I suppose you could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you can get a realtor and make an offer, and they will come and give you that offer.
		So, look, I don't know what else to say or do, Mel.
		If there's any way I can help you, if there's any media contacts or political contacts I can supply you with that will help when you decide what you're going to do, come to me.
		If there are any significant further developments that you want, or you get some neighbors who want to come on the air, I'll put them on.
		If you get any drawings, I'll put them up on the website.
		I'll do whatever I can do to help you.
		And I feel a little guilty about having solicited you on the air in the first place and causing all this.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, I'm pretty rattled about this, I have to say.
		And I'm usually a bit more articulate than I have been.
		And I apologize for that.
		This is a really stressful situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People are just nasty, Mel.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		No, that's fine.
		And I generally find that usually the people that are most well-spoken are generally the ones that you really have to watch out for.
		I know.
		I think that's always a good thing to bear in mind.
		And so, you know, I've got some thinking to do about this art.
		And I appreciate everything that everyone has said.
		I think overall, I think I've moved forward in this in terms of actually being able to resolve this within my mind.
		And I think for that, it was good.
		Quite honestly, your involvement with this may not, you know, it may be happening now because of your involvement, but it may be happening, could be happening a year from now without your involvement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and everybody out there ought to consider.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, something like this could happen to anybody.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		10 million people or how many are out there.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		They know about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mel, we're out of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stay in touch, my friend.
mel waters ▲ ● ▼		I'll keep in touch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, take care.
		That's Mel and the story Of Mel's Hole, and that's the latest.
		When there's more, you'll hear about it right here.

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