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Feb. 24, 1997 - Art Bell

02:46:27

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Diana Fairechild - Flying Sickness. Mel Waters - Mel's Hole Update

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	Welcome to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 24th, 1997.
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, as the case may be across all these Many, many time zones from the Hawaiian and Tahitian island chains, all the way eastward across flyover country to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, south into South America, north to the Poland.
	Worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Cloning.
	Cloning, cloning, cloning, cloning.
	We're gonna be cloning.
	I've been listening to the news reports now since the news broke about cloning.
	And one thing is absolutely obvious to me of all the interviews of all the scientists I've seen in Scotland and elsewhere.
	All of them say, yes, humans could be cloned.
	Yes, this is the technology.
	Yes, it's real.
	But they all say, but why would we want to do it?
	Oh, my.
	So, we will get to cloning tonight.
	As a matter of fact, here is Quick facts on the subject, Art.
	Here's a question to ask the listeners if the mood strikes.
	If cloning of humans was a foregone conclusion, and a national vote was taken to determine who would be cloned, who would you most like to see cloned?
	See, now we're getting down to business.
	And who would you least want to see cloned?
	I'm interested in hearing answers.
	For the record, here's my list and why.
	Art Bell first.
	That way we could have an all-art network with a new Art Bell taking over every five hours.
	When one art got sick from airplane air, a substitute art could fill in for him.
	Ramona Bell.
	All those extra arts would have to have some companionship.
	Ronald Reagan.
	Obvious reasons here.
	Thomas Jefferson.
	We could use the wisdom to fix the mess the country is in.
	Kathy Ireland.
	This one also self-explanatory.
	From Chris, listening to the mighty WWTN in Nashville.
	Chris is on the right track.
	I suppose everybody's going to run around wringing their hands and asking, Should we do it?
	Should we do it?
	Is it right?
	Is it wrong?
	Well, too late.
	Cat's out of the bag.
	You know, they can try and pass laws.
	Anyway, we'll get into all of this, and I am not going to take the track everybody else is going to take.
	I'm going to go in a different direction with it because I think it's a foregone conclusion.
	Hey, hey, hey, welcome to WTVN AM in Columbus, Ohio.
	610 on the dial, 5,000 regional watts.
	All around Columbus, great to have you along.
	And welcome to the network as we continue to grow, grow, grow, grow.
	Now, happy birthday.
	The diamond anniversary for WOAI 1200 AM in San Antonio, Texas.
	The Diamond Anniversary.
	OAI, you know, is one of the nation's oldest, most venerable, and certainly most powerful radio stations, along with another many, many of the same sort that we're fortunate to have on the network, but the Diamond Anniversary, so happy birthday, W-O-A-I.
	I got this fax, and I don't know what to make of it.
	Art, today on the island of Hawaii, in the Hilo area, freakish 80 mile an hour winds blew tops off about 200 homes.
	Say what?
	Meteorologists have never seen this kind of wind activity in Hawaii in absence of a hurricane.
	Repeat, absence of a hurricane.
	The island of Oahu is set to receive some of the wind in about two hours.
	Could all this be a harbinger of Ed Dame's remote viewing regarding the jet stream lowering?
	I don't know.
	What would cause 80 mph winds in Hawaii?
	Short of a hurricane, I have no idea what sort of dynamics could be at play there to cause this.
	Alright, I'm still sick.
	You know, I'm still sick.
	And I really got sick.
	I mean, I really got sick beginning last Monday.
	Went down and tried to relax a little bit.
	Mazatlan.
	Took a 757, airline unnamed because of what I'm about to do.
	And a 757 coming back, too.
	And then a 757 to Las Vegas from Los Angeles.
	And precisely seven days later, I got really, really sick.
	Now I went to China.
	I got sick.
	I went to Paris.
	I got sick.
	I went to Scandinavia.
	I got sick.
	I am sick of getting sick on airplanes.
	And I'm really sick of it.
	I was so out of it Friday night, I'm having a good time here.
	You'll recall, by the way, we're going to have an update on the Mel Waters Infinite Hole.
	Mel's going to be back on the air around 1 o'clock or so, Pacific Time, because there have been developments.
	Let me put it that way.
	Anyway, I was so out of it Friday night that I tried to superglue something over here, and I got superglue all over my hands.
	And I, it just flowed like water, and like an idiot.
	Um, you know how you go to chew it off, right?
	You know, the normal reaction is to, you know, pick it off with your teeth.
	So I put it up there too soon to start picking, figuring it was already dry.
	Well, it wasn't.
	It was still watered.
	The water condition, and I glued my lip shut.
	Well, I glued my lip shut.
	Well, not fully.
	It was about like that, so I could talk about it like that, you know?
	And I went into a break, and I ripped my lip apart, and a little chunk of lip was in my ashtray, and that's how sick I was.
	So out of it that I completely screwed up there.
	Lost part of my lip.
	I don't know how long it takes for a lip to heal, but I guess I hope mine will.
	Now, I have contacted somebody who knows about airplanes, because I want to know about airplanes.
	I want the real scoop on airplanes.
	Her name is Diana Fairchild, and she is in Hawaii.
	And she ought to know, because she's had 20 years plus as an airline stew for Pan Am and United Airlines.
	And so we're going to ask about that here in a few moments.
	Ask about why it is that you get sick on an airplane and how you can prevent it.
	My latest scheme, I was thinking I was going to wear an ABC mask.
	You know, one of those things like the Gulf War vets wore.
	Next time I'm on an airplane.
	Did that cause a riot?
	Because they'd, well, everybody knows what they'd be.
	They'd probably figure you had vials of something with you.
	But I mean, it's almost to that point.
	Hacking, coughing, sneezing.
	I've never been so sick.
	And you might be able to tell, I'm a little bit angry about it.
	So, um, anyway, we'll talk to Diana Fairchild in Hawaii here in a couple of moments.
	Now we take you back to the night of February 24th, 1997 on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Thanks for watching!
	Diana Fairchild has been an airline stewardess for a very long time.
	She is now retired.
	You know, I'm sure she couldn't even talk to us if she wasn't retired.
	Otherwise, she'd be fearing for her job.
	She has a website, and that website is on our website as a link right now.
	So if you want to know more about what you're about to hear about, go on up there and link over to Diana's website.
	It's healthy flying.
	Well, actually, it's not Healthy Flying.
	Let's see, what is the actual name of her website?
	Well, we'll get to that.
	Anyway, look, get up there.
	The Washington Post wrote an article about the whole Courtney Brown affair.
	It was in Sunday's Washington Post.
	You can link over to that and read the article in the Washington Post.
	It is Healthy Flying.
	I was right about that.
	So, be sure you check out the Washington Post article on Courtney Brown.
	That's on the webpage right now.
	Emily Lau, who's coming on tomorrow night from Hong Kong.
	Her website, all the way from Hong Kong, is available.
	And John Shepard, be sure you look at the Strat photos.
	He's coming up Wednesday night, Thursday morning.
	Now, to Hawaii, and Diana Fairchild.
	Hi, Diana!
	Hi, Art.
	Thank you for calling.
	Oh, thank you for coming on the program.
	I'm still sick, Diana.
	I have been... I'm a healthy person, Diana.
	I don't get colds.
	I don't get the flu.
	I go a year at a time without getting sick, but then I fly.
	And when I fly, I absolutely, without fail, every single time get sick.
	Now, you work for Pan Am?
	Yeah, Pan Am and United, 21 years total.
	21 years.
	That's a long time in an airplane.
	10 million miles.
	10 million miles.
	What routes did you generally fly out of, as a matter of curiosity?
	I started flying South America.
	Actually, my very first trip was to Rio at Carnival, and I thought, this is a great life.
	Oh, yes.
	And then I ended up doing a lot of polar flights to London from California.
	And then round-the-world flights.
	Around the world east, around the world west.
	Stockton, Europe, India, and Asia.
	Wow!
	That's pretty exotic stuff!
	Yeah, every eight days.
	Every eight days.
	A few idle questions of curiosity before we get to the meat of the matter here.
	One of them is, how long did it take?
	I mean, I've flown to a lot of those capitals myself, but when I do it, it's very exotic for a passenger who, you know, rarely gets to Europe or Asia.
	It's very exotic, but you did it all the time.
	How long does it take for the thrill to wear off?
	Oh, never, I think.
	Never?
	That sounds kind of good to hear.
	In other words, you never get, oh no, another trip to London.
	You never get to that point.
	The last two years I was flying, I was sick most of the time.
	So from that point of view, I just didn't have a lot of energy and I didn't feel well.
	So I could say the last two years.
	Well, that brings us to the meat of the matter, Diana.
	Number one, why are we getting so damn sick on airliners these days?
	What's going on?
	It's a very complex situation, and it involves a number of biological and environmental factors.
	To start with, of course, is the traditional issue of time zone changes.
	When we shift time zones, our inner clock is out of sync with the outer clock, so all our hormonal and and chemical rhythms have to change and that that takes a couple of days to a couple of weeks and even in my research I found that even though hormones may start secreting that they don't even reach their amplitude for six months so it takes a while just for that but the main thing that I started focusing on and pointing attention to it's the environmental stress in the plane itself which is
	A place low in air pressure, humidity, and oxygen, and high in radiation, pesticides, and germs.
	It's low in air pressure.
	In other words, it actually has the air pressure of a mountain resort.
	It's 8,000 feet in the plain.
	Ah, yes, indeed.
	Everybody knows your ears pop as you rise to cruise altitude, whatever it is.
	It takes a while for you to adjust.
	So there is a different pressure.
	And you're saying it's like being at 8,000 feet?
	Well, people suffer from mountain sickness when they go quickly to 8,000 feet, so we're dealing with that as well.
	Well, why can they not keep the cabin pressure at, you know, ground-level norm?
	The best they can do, the way the planes are designed, is a plane at 25 to, say, 40,000 feet.
	The best they can do is to pressurize it to 8,000, 7 or 8,000 feet.
	Actually, it's illegal to pressurize it over 8,000 feet.
	They can't fly at sea level for one reason.
	The air is heavier at sea level, so they want it lighter, as light as possible.
	I see.
	So they always fly at the highest interior ambient altitude that they can.
	So they take us to 8,000 feet.
	Right.
	And so I said the air inside is low in air pressure, humidity and oxygen.
	So humidity, the only humidity in an airplane, there's none introduced by the cabin air conditioning.
	The only humidity is from the takeoff location and the sweat and breath of everybody on the plane.
	So on a long range flight, like you were mentioning, I guess, to Hong Kong and those flights, the humidity actually goes down to zero after a couple of hours.
	And that's Way drier than even the Sahara Desert.
	Oh, listen, I live here in the desert, and when I have relatives who come and visit, they complain of their nose being very dry.
	You know, we have generally a double-digit or even single-digit during the summer humidity, and we're used to being very dry, but you're right.
	When I fly on a long-distance flight, I get totally dried out, and I live in the desert.
	It's drier than the desert.
	And like you, you are acclimated, but your friends and relatives come and they're not acclimated.
	So it's very shocking, even more shocking to them.
	So that's another environmental factor that passengers need to consider.
	And then it's low in oxygen.
	For example, I believe this statistic came out that there's twice as much oxygen Mandated in U.S.
	prisons than they found on U.S.
	airplanes.
	You're kidding.
	What about the pilots?
	Are they breathing the same air the passengers are?
	No.
	They're not?
	Mm-mm.
	What are they breathing?
	They get, I think, ten times more air than an economy passenger.
	Oh, now wait a minute.
	A economy?
	What about first class?
	You mean there's a difference in the air between first class and an economy?
	First class gets three times more air than economy.
	Oh, they do?
	But the reason is because there's fewer people breathing the same cubic square feet.
	That's why.
	Is it part of the same circulation system?
	As economy, yes.
	And for the most part, It's pumped in toward the front of the plane, and the outflow valves are toward the back.
	So I always find the air is fresher the closer I get to the front, and it's fresher when there's less people around.
	Well, yeah.
	Unfortunately, most of the flights, overseas flights, are generally booked.
	I guess they like to run them that way.
	Um, so there is a good tip.
	Number one, you're saying the air is better toward the front of the plane.
	I find it better.
	I notice that I feel like I can breathe better.
	And of course, if you're lucky enough to get the upper deck on a 747, it's even better there.
	Well, I've never had that.
	I've snuck up a couple of times to see what it's like, and it's very nice, but I've never been able to fly that way myself.
	I've got a page on my website how to sneak into first class.
	Really?
	Let's hear it.
	Well, I'm not recommending it, but... Of course not.
	Don't try this at home, folks.
	It just depends on certain flights.
	I mean, if you board late, then you know which seats are available.
	There may not be any empty seats.
	From what point of view?
	From a crash?
	From air quality?
	from the front toward the rear so you're gambling if you can't sneak into first
	class then you you've you lost out you're probably gonna sit back where is
	the worst place to sit on an airplane the absolute rear worst from what point of view from a crash from air quality
	from you know noise from smell of lavatories you know each area
	I mean, in a crash, you just never know.
	You know, they used to say the best place is over the wing, but it's not so.
	You know, in that United decompression out of Honolulu, where the fuselage peeled up over the cargo area, it was the people over the wing that died.
	So, you just, it's really not...
	I know that Bottom Line has an article, the very best place to sit, but it's not true.
	We can't necessarily figure it out that there's only one best place.
	Some people like the aisles because they say there's more leg room, but the aisles are so narrow that they're constantly getting bumped by carts and people walking by.
	Again, people like to sit in the front row, but on a lot of aircraft they park carts there during the flight.
	Well, that's not altogether bad.
	Usually there's little tiny bottles of booze that you can lift when people like you aren't looking.
	Well, anyway, so back to that original statement, low in air pressure, humidity, and oxygen, and high in radiation, pesticides, and germs.
	So the radiation, actually, crew members, pilots and flight attendants, are now classified as radiation-sensitive workers.
	And they get more radiation than nuclear power plant workers.
	And radiation because of the constant high altitude?
	Yes, it's from the sun.
	Radiation doubles, I think, every 3,000 feet.
	The exact statistic is in my book and on my website.
	But at high altitudes, radiation is very significant.
	Has the air on airliners always been bad, or has it been worse recently?
	It's worse recently.
	Why?
	Well, the news purports that it's because the newer planes, like the 757 that you flew, have less fresh air capacity than the older 747s, for example.
	And that's only part of the truth.
	All right, we'll get to the rest of the truth in a moment.
	Diana Fairchild is my guest, and we're talking about air travel, I guess, generally, and why you get sick so frequently on an airplane, and we're going to find out how to avoid it, too.
	That one I'm really interested in.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 24th, 1997.
	This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast concert.
	Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM, from February 24th, 1997.
	Well, you've got to know that anybody will tell you how you can sneak into first class is going to give you the straight stuff.
	That's Diana Fairchild, and she's in Kaua'i, on Kaua'i, the island of, in Kaua'i, was an airline stew for 20 plus years, for Pan Am and United.
	We'll get back to her in a moment.
	Now we take you back to the night of February 24th, 1997 on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	It's a story of a young man who is trying to find his way back to the past.
	Alright, back now to Diana Fairchild.
	Diana, just before we return to where we were, I was thinking about sneaking into first class.
	Now, if you're back in the economy section and the airplane gets underway and actually gets into the air, can you casually sort of just wander forward into, you know, they draw a curtain in the first class.
	It's what I remember is a curtain is drawn.
	Can you go through that curtain and sort of just sort of casually look around, find an empty seat and plop down?
	It's possible on some of those very, very long flights where the crew gets breaks.
	Oh.
	But, you know, and then a lot of people are sleeping too, depends on the time of departure.
	Like if you're on that, for example, LA City flight that leaves at midnight, everybody pretty much goes to sleep right away.
	Right.
	The thing is, though, the flight attendants have a Passenger manifest list of names of all the first class passengers.
	Diane, I'm kind of losing your audio here for some reason.
	Is this better?
	Oh, that's better.
	Yes, thank you.
	Thank you.
	The flight attendants have a list of names of first class passengers, which they usually try to use when taking orders for breakfast and things, you know, for the meals.
	So that's a time when you could get caught.
	And if you got busted?
	What could they do other than send you back with the masses?
	Well, it's best not to argue, you know, because there's that FAA rule about interfering with the duties of a flight attendant.
	I think the best thing is to cop an insanity plea.
	I'm sorry, I didn't know where I was.
	It's the lack of oxygen.
	That would be perfect.
	Alright, somebody just sent me a fax and it says the air recirculation is a fuel-saving measure The air conditioning system bleeds energy from the engines, turn it down, and the company makes more dollars.
	It's that simple.
	Is it?
	Yes.
	It is.
	You mean to say... You mean to say this is done to save fuel?
	Money?
	It saves about $80 an hour on a jumbo jet.
	$80 an hour?
	on a jumbo jet. $80 an hour. So on your 757 they probably saved, well I think the
	the total load of a 757 is the hundred Yes.
	And the total load of a 747 is about 500.
	Right.
	So whatever the math would be, $30 or something.
	Oh, that's outrageous.
	How much are they turning off, generally, typically?
	In other words, How much of the filtration system, or the air conditioning system, is off?
	Each plane has a different type of system.
	It's not uniform in all the fleets.
	Even the Boeings, for example, have different systems than the other types of aircraft.
	But on the Boeing 747, there's three air packs.
	And so these are Connected to three of the engines.
	So the way it works is the engines have two functions.
	One is to fly the plane and the other is to take outside unbreathable air, which is too thin, and pack it.
	That's why it's called air pack.
	Pack it, compress it, and pump it into the cabin as fresh air.
	So basically what they do is they turn off one right after takeoff.
	I think they need all three for takeoff because it's part of the engine and then they turn off one when they get to a
	certain altitude but but I was talking to a flight attendant friend this evening and a
	lot of times there I remember too they're just not working they're not required
	for takeoff clearance you know certain things you can't take off it
	unless they're working and this is not something that is required to work all
	right um how can we force them
	Or can we force them?
	I mean, things have certainly changed with the airlines.
	I remember when we flew back in the days of your early job, why we got decent meals, we got all kinds of extras, all the peanuts you wanted, blah blah blah, and now you're lucky to get an indigestible slab of turkey, which I hate anyway, or or something else in other words the cost-cutting
	measures uh... have really come into play in the last few years
	uh... and i think so how do we force them to do something about the air and i really mean that i'm i'm
	angry about this
	well i have two things that i'm suggesting to people in my book get
	smart and the first one is
	because all of the airplanes have different way of providing air like i just described the 747 to you
	totally different than the 757 They have recirculation fans that are on that need to be turned off.
	So it's, you know, you can't say turn it on or turn it off.
	What you can ask for is full utilization of air.
	That's what we used to ask for.
	That is the airline term that means that whatever fresh air capacity that plane has, they're going to use that capacity.
	Alright, suppose I'm on an airplane and I buzz you and you come over and smile at me and ask how you can help and I say I would like full utilization of this aircraft's air system.
	Right.
	What do you do then?
	Do you go and call the pilot?
	Well, the first thing is not to ring the call button for that because the flight attendants are totally overworked and exhausted themselves because they're breathing that same air.
	So the best would be If she happens to be passing your seat or if you get up and, you know, go back where she's setting up or doing something and say, could you ask the pilot for full utilization of air, please?
	You know, have understanding when you ask and realize the flight attendants are suffering even more than the passengers because they're working, you know, so aerobically.
	But then the flight attendant will probably call the pilot Or tell the purser, the chief flight attendant.
	The purser may be wanting to be the only one to talk to the pilot.
	But in any case, most probably, the pilots will know pretty quickly that somebody asked for full utilization of air.
	And then you can notice if the air conditioning gets louder and you start feeling better.
	One of the symptoms of hypoxia, which is lack of oxygen to the brain, Is that you can't think clearly, like you mentioned the other night with the glue, you know?
	And you really can't think clearly when you don't have enough oxygen in your brain.
	So, you'll notice that you're hypoxic if you're reading that same paragraph, you know, for 20 minutes or something, but you just don't get beyond it in that magazine or can't figure out something, you're crossing a puzzle.
	Well, you're probably in that condition if you're even really enjoying the airline magazine that's there at all.
	No, anyway, I don't really... I'm just angry.
	I'm very angry.
	I understand.
	I am too.
	I got sick.
	I got very, very sick and it changed my whole life.
	You know, I've never been the same.
	We'll certainly get to that in a moment.
	I was so angry that I swore for a while I was going to wear... You remember Desert Storm?
	You remember the ABC masks they had?
	Those chemical masks?
	I'm serious.
	I'm serious.
	I was going to get one.
	I was going to go on my next long trip in one of those.
	Now, if I got on an aircraft in a mask like that, what would happen?
	Nothing.
	You could actually ask for an oxygen bottle and that's my second strategy.
	If you notice that the air conditioning hasn't changed, that you don't start feeling better and that the air conditioning isn't louder, Then the next time you see the flight attendant, you just say, you know, I'm feeling very sick and I would like some oxygen.
	And they have portable bottles.
	For example, on a 747, they've got 17 bottles.
	Really?
	And on a 757, let me see, I got that figure for you yesterday and wrote it down.
	Oh, they've got four on a 757.
	No kidding!
	I've never seen anybody ask or get one.
	Right.
	Well, I hope that people will start asking because they'll feel better.
	I used to sip pure oxygen when I was flying, especially those last two years when I didn't feel well most of the time.
	And it makes a tremendous difference in your health on board and after landing.
	And it's a little expensive for the airlines, so at some point, if a lot of people start asking, they'll turn on the air in the first place.
	That's right.
	Do they have to provide that to you without extra charge?
	Yes.
	If you don't feel well in the plane, it's free.
	If you ask for it before takeoff in anticipation of not feeling well, Then you need a note from your doctor, and you pay between $50 and $80 a bottle.
	Ah, but if you do it once you're airborne, too late, and they've got to just do it.
	Right.
	Aha!
	And so if a lot of people begin doing that, ask, oh, I've got you.
	That's our little revolution.
	A little revolution.
	That's a good revolution.
	Boy, these are some good, good, good ideas.
	Thank you.
	If you were still employed, saying the things you're saying now, would you be suddenly out of work?
	I don't know.
	Seems like it, huh?
	Seems like it.
	I can imagine you would be, yes.
	Do you know that you are retired?
	Do you still fly?
	Yes, a little bit.
	And one of the tips I'm giving, you know, regards the contagious disease issue in the plane.
	It's a big problem, tuberculosis and flu and things that you're suffering from.
	It's always frightening, I think, when somebody right behind you is coughing.
	Well, that's just where I was going.
	Inevitably, I'm on a plane and either behind me, usually behind me, or even in front of me, somebody is coughing, sneezing, snotting, absolutely, totally sick.
	It's obvious.
	Why is it, Diana, that airlines Don't station somebody at some point screening passengers who are obviously sick.
	Because they're not thinking about healthy flying.
	They're thinking about getting us, you know, getting a take-off slot and all the other... Profitable, profitable flying.
	Yeah, right.
	Exactly.
	But, I mean, doesn't it make some sense That if somebody is obviously sick, that the airline could say, sir or ma'am, we're going to require that you see a physician or something before boarding or, you know, something like that.
	Even the Centers for Disease Control requested that people with tuberculosis, TB, not take long flights.
	But nobody's monitoring it and nobody even said what a long flight is.
	Well, I was even thinking of the flu.
	Blue is even worse.
	So what I'm suggesting, I found out from a doctor that covering your nose and mouth cuts down the transmission of viruses and germs over 90%.
	So what I like to do when I travel is wear a handkerchief over my nose and mouth.
	You can wear A western outfit, Art, and wear a scarf and just pull it up during the flight.
	Or you can get that charcoal mask and just put it on in flight.
	And then the other thing I'm suggesting, a daring optional suggestion, is that you have in your bag a couple of little painter's masks.
	And if someone is coughing, you present it to them, possibly saying, gee, I'm sure you would like to not, you know, get everybody else on the plane sick.
	Why don't you wear this?
	If you've ever been to Tokyo, you know, you've seen how people are so considerate that way.
	Absolutely true.
	I don't know how much of it is consideration and how much of it is fear.
	A lot of Japanese, I think, who are not sick wear those masks, and you see them all over Tokyo, in order not to get sick.
	Oh, I never thought of that.
	That's probably true.
	Oh, it is, and you see them all over Japan.
	The Japanese are very, very aware of that, and we are not.
	So, basically, my whole philosophy in Get Smart, which has 200 tips of this kind, is that the airlines are thinking a different way, and we need to take care of ourselves.
	We need to take charge.
	So, what I like to do is Present all the environmental stressors to the reader and they can see all the different things that are going on.
	The pesticides, the ozone, the diesel fumes, the viruses, electromagnetic pulses, radiation, toxic chemicals, tobacco smokers.
	Still, I went to Hong Kong recently.
	All the way to Tokyo and all the way to Hong Kong with smoking flights.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Now see, I'm a smoker, and I've been looking for smoking flights, and I can't find any more of them.
	They still exist then.
	Is that true?
	Just call United.
	United has smoking flights?
	Yeah, that was on United to Tokyo and to Hong Kong.
	I believe a lot of the South American sectors are still smoking, and some places in Europe, I think.
	Well now, here's a funny thing I heard.
	Now maybe you can confirm or deny this, but that on smoking flights, strangely, you have less of a chance of getting sick than on non-smoking flights.
	And the reason, given by the person who told me this, was that they've got to turn on so much extra filtration because of the smoking.
	Yeah, that's a nice idea.
	I mean, the National Academy of Science published a report that said they've got to turn on full utilization of air when there's a full load.
	And they don't.
	And they don't.
	As you know, most of the flights are all full everywhere now because they have these really great last minute deals and things like that.
	So, I understand there's quite a few of them available on the internet.
	I don't know which I think American Airlines started it.
	And you could just sort of log on the last, you know, 48 hours and pick up really cheap
	tickets.
	And so the planes are all full, really.
	And yet the air isn't necessarily full utilization.
	And people think, you know, it's the pilots that are turning down the air.
	Well, it is a pilot's prerogative, isn't it?
	Bye.
	Kind of.
	I mean, it's a management dictum, and the pilots follow it.
	Are the pilots rated on how much fuel they save and use?
	In other words, is there motivation from the company for the pilots to save every bit of fuel they can?
	You're so smart, Art.
	No, I'm not.
	I'm just asking.
	Even some of the airlines pay bonuses.
	Bonuses?
	Mm-hmm.
	Bonuses?
	Financial bonuses to save fuel.
	Only the captain.
	Only the captain, huh?
	Why don't we have an advocate?
	I mean, you're obviously that, but a high-level advocate who represents passengers' rights.
	We ought to have rights when we fly.
	Some rights to healthy air for beginners.
	Right.
	Well, that's what I'm trying to do because no one else is doing it.
	It's a very, very complex situation and I don't think anyone who has not been an insider for the length of time that I was, and also I just happened to be personally very curious.
	I'm kind of a health nut, you know, since a long time.
	Vegetarian since the 60's and interested in spirituality and subtle energy and All of these kinds of things, so I was just somehow wanting to learn all about this while I was flying.
	You mentioned that you got sick, and it sounds like you said you were, during the last couple of years, very sick.
	Yes.
	With flu or something worse, or what?
	Well, I understand you're going into depth a lot about Gulf War Syndrome.
	Yes.
	And in my opinion, what happened to me is the same disease as Gulf War Syndrome.
	It's called Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.
	And my doctor says it's the very, very similar symptoms of Gulf War Syndrome.
	Environmentally induced?
	Right, environmental illness.
	And the direct cause of it was pesticides in New Zealand and Australia.
	I don't know if you know this, but in a number of countries in the world, they actually spray pesticide on passengers.
	What?
	No, I didn't know that.
	When do they do that?
	They have it all different ways, like sometimes the flight attendant has to spray it About 30 minutes before touchdown at Top of Descent.
	You mean it comes through the air?
	No, they walk down the aisle with these canisters of pesticide.
	And they spray between the overhead bin and the passenger's head.
	So it just rains down on you like a pesticide shower.
	Oh, wonderful!
	Um, Diana, hold tight, we're at the top of the hour, we'll be back to you, and we're going to open up the lines, let the audience ask questions, alright?
	Okay, great!
	Alright, Diana, hold tight, Diana Fairchild, Jet Smart is her book, I'm Art Bell.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM, from February 24th, 1997.
	4th 1997.
	I'm going to be doing a video on the new
	version of the song.
	I'm going to be doing a video on the new version of the song.
	I'm going to be doing a video on the Tonight's program originally aired February 24th, 1997.
	From the island of Kauai, my guest is Diana Fairchild.
	She was a stewardess for United Airlines and Pan Am for over 20 years.
	We're talking about flying and getting sick on airplanes and airplanes in general.
	I've got a captain here who has written an angry little fax about Diana and we'll get to that in a moment and bring her
	back on and get your questions about flying and sickness and why the airlines are saving money at the expense of our
	health and what we should do about it, says a still recovering Art Bell.
	Now we take you back to the night of February 24th, 1997 on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	.
	Back to the island of Kauai, and Diana Fairchild.
	Diana, I'm going to read you a fax here, and let's see how you respond to it, alright?
	Okay.
	Alright, it says, Art, this lady is full of, well, CRAP, crap.
	A pack is pressurized air conditioning kit.
	The fans, reference, take outside air from the right pack and does not save money.
	Air is required to completely change in an airline cabin every seven minutes.
	The reason the air is thinner, at jet altitudes of 33,000 feet, the cabin, is at 8,000 feet just like AC level drive to Denver.
	The filter is air going out the outflow valve.
	Pilots have no way to filter air. Diana has problems with reality.
	Signed Jim, and he gives the last name Captain, 26 years.
	What do you say to that? Well, people should look on the internet at my page called
	Full Utilization of Air because the number of captains have written in and said there's no such thing.
	And I've answered them, you know, from the Boeing manual and the National Academy of Science press.
	And this kind of thing is going on all the time.
	and even what I found on the internet was a report from a aeromedical physician in England
	who works for a number of airlines and it was a report and I link it on my site on this page
	where it was about hearing loss among pilots and it just said in an offhand way
	that the pilots find the air conditioning so noisy that just for that reason they're turning it off.
	One more little thing, Diana.
	I have a friend who works for United who because he is not yet retired has to remain nameless,
	but he's a good friend of mine.
	I talked to him a few minutes ago.
	He said, ask her about hearing loss.
	Humidity.
	Now, you already said the passengers suffer, at some point on long flights, zero humidity levels.
	He said, ask her what the pilots have, humidity-wise.
	They have the same.
	They have the same?
	Yeah.
	He indicated he thought they had a humidifier up there.
	Well, actually, you know, on some aircraft, They may have certain humidifiers, particularly the newer ones, when it finally came out where the airlines were admitting that the pilots had different air than the passengers.
	I discovered that actually when the no smoking went into effect on U.S.
	flights, and a little aside in a report, it said Uh, pilots who smoke are still allowed to smoke, but passengers shouldn't worry because they have separate air.
	Wait a minute.
	Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait a minute.
	Wait just a moment.
	Did you just say that pilots who smoke on non-smoking flights are allowed to smoke?
	Is that what I heard you say?
	Yes.
	That's an outrage.
	Anyway, that's how I found out.
	That's an outrage.
	That they had separate air.
	I always suspected it because it felt so different in the cockpit.
	When I was really sick those last two years, I was so sensitive that if I did find myself in the cockpit, it was so much easier to breathe.
	So, but anyway... Wait a minute, you mean to tell me that while I'm sitting back there in economy, with my hand twitching, going through nicotine withdrawal on a seven-hour flight to Europe, That the pilot up there is smoking away?
	If he's a smoker, yes.
	Unbelievable.
	Unbelievable.
	But anyway, when finally the airlines admitted that the pilots had separate air, because they were really denying it at first, and even pilots would come up to me and say, no, no, it's not true.
	And I'd say, I know it's true.
	But anyway, when they finally admitted it, they said, oh, the pilots Air is different because of the instruments in the cockpit, not because of the pilot.
	Because of the delicate instruments.
	The delicate instruments.
	So there may be some of the newer aircraft may be having some humidity in there for the instruments.
	I see.
	All right.
	A lot of people want to talk to you, so let's get some of them on the air.
	First time on our line, you're on the air with Diana Fairchild on the island of Kauai.
	Hello.
	Good evening, Art.
	My name is Chris from Carmichael, California.
	Hi there, Chris.
	I have a question in regards to you were talking about cabin pressure altitude.
	Yes.
	I was wondering if there's any federal regulations for MAC flights, military flights for passengers.
	In other words, different pressure allowed?
	Right.
	Are there different pressures allowed?
	Do you know, Diana?
	No, I think you'd need to ask a military pilot.
	Because you said that it was 8,000 feet?
	Yeah, commercial aircraft are regulated that the cabin interior pressure cannot go over 8,000 feet.
	And I would presume, caller, that when there were, for example, I flew military, but it was a chartered commercial aircraft, so I would imagine commercial standards would prevail.
	On Mac aircraft, as she points out, you'd have to ask a Mac pilot.
	Right.
	Yeah, I did a lot of Mac flying, actually.
	At the end of the Vietnam War, we used to take the R&R trip.
	Exactly.
	Oh, well, I'm an Army brat, and we spent some time in Europe.
	And my mother, my brother, and I came back on a C-5.
	And my brother, when we got back, had serious ear problems.
	Oh, I see.
	And that's why I question it.
	Oh, I see.
	Well, ear problems, you know, pilots tell me that when you're flying and you have a history of ear problems or you have a cold, that it would be good to notify them that they may be compressurized more delicately than, you know, manually instead of automatically.
	Well, the other thing I said earlier that I want to stress again is, it seems to me that the airlines, you know, I hate to be the enforcer of regulation because there's so much regulation already, but somebody ought to screen passengers who are sick and keep them off flights.
	Offer them a later flight, offer them some other alternative, but if they're sneezing, coughing, hacking, if they've got the flu or something more serious, for God's sakes, keep them off airplanes and save the rest of us!
	Or is that a violation of somebody's civil rights?
	You know, I have a little story, Art, about this.
	I was on a New Zealand flight one night, which I think is about eight hours from Honolulu, where I was based.
	And about four or five hours into the flight, I had a severe sore throat.
	Just come on me.
	And I know you mentioned earlier that you had a seven days before.
	Did you say seven days before you came down?
	Seven days, yes.
	And that's, you know, a normal incubation time, what they say, from being in a toxic, you know, germ-filled environment.
	But this was just right in flight.
	I had a very severe sore throat, and I happened to be working the upper deck, so it was sort of like a little area where you get to know everybody and within minutes that I felt this sore throat three passengers said to me out of a total of sixteen I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat, I have a sore throat
	We normally don't carry people who are so sick, but we were personally petitioned, and they asked the captain for permission, and he said, OK.
	Oh, my.
	I guess maybe there's too much prerogative for a captain in that category.
	After all, captains are good at flying airplanes, but they're not physicians.
	That's right.
	Ultimately, it's up to us to know that all of these things exist and that what we can do to take care of ourselves.
	Well, I like the oxygen bottle idea.
	We'll get back to that.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Diana Fairchild on Kauai.
	Hello.
	Yeah.
	Actually, my comment is about the oxygen bottle.
	All right.
	Where are you, sir?
	I'm in Florida.
	Florida.
	Okay.
	Well, this is kind of a freak thing that happened to me.
	I was flying from New Orleans to Miami.
	Um, I don't even know what happened.
	I, I couldn't breathe and my mind sort of went blank and something told me to, to do something like immediately about what was happening.
	Sure.
	Got up.
	I thought through it and started to walk towards her.
	And that's the last thing I remember.
	Oh man.
	I came to, it was a passenger next to me.
	I had an oxygen mask on me with a bottle and the passenger next to me rummaging through a first aid kit.
	He gets a needle out and says this is going to hurt.
	Oh my God!
	I found out that I was having a severe reaction to something on the plane.
	My lungs had shut down and my heart was in the process of shutting down.
	Oh my!
	And he gave me an adrenaline shot to get my heart working.
	There was no one else.
	There just happened to be a doctor on the plane.
	There were stewardesses who did not know how to deal with this situation.
	Right.
	Oh, what an incredible story.
	So I take it you recovered?
	I was fine as soon as I had oxygen and adrenaline.
	Oxygen and adrenaline?
	Yeah, I was bouncing off the wall after an adrenaline shot.
	Were there any other passengers who were similar?
	No, I was the only one.
	You were the only one?
	The only one.
	But here's the thing.
	First of all, the guy told me after the flight that they had They were radioing to get the plane turned around, to land it.
	And he told me that they never would have landed the plane before I was dead, if he hadn't been on that flight.
	Yikes!
	In your years of flying, Diana, did you ever have heart attacks, people in acute distress, other than the situation you just described?
	It's actually quite common, you know, that people get very, very ill.
	Quite common?
	Yes, I mean, you know, every month you'll get a couple of things, serious things happening.
	Well, how well are stewardesses trained if there is not a doctor on board?
	I think they're pretty well trained, but the thing is, you know, with all the cutbacks in the airline industry, you're just so busy.
	I mean, I was reading, I was reading just yesterday a story about A man who tried to commit suicide.
	Did you read that one?
	No.
	He cut his throat in the first class bathroom with a little pen knife.
	And I guess the first suicide like that in a plane.
	And it said that the flight attendant found him because he was in for a long time.
	And I thought to myself, whoa, she's really aware that she would have the time to remember who went in and when, because you've seen, everybody's seen how much the flight attendants are running around.
	Yeah, they're very, very busy, and even more so on relatively short flights.
	For example, when you fly from Los Angeles to Las Vegas, it's about a one-hour flight, and they barely have time to get the cart up and down and throw a sack of peanuts at you and whatever.
	And then you're on the way down again.
	So they're really flying on those flights.
	I notice on the long-haul flights, they do have some periods where they can sit, and you see the stews sit down and rest occasionally.
	Those are, you know, mandated rests on duty days of over 14 hours.
	Ah.
	You know, when you're, you report to the airport two hours before takeoff, of course, and you don't get off immediately.
	You've got customs and everything.
	And so when you're on duty, you know, double digits, You know, 12, 13, 14, 16, 18 hours.
	You're on duty.
	You have to have a break.
	No one can stand up that long.
	What are the statistics regarding stewardesses?
	I won't ask about pilots because they have the rare air, apparently.
	But stewardesses getting sick.
	There must be, somebody must keep statistics.
	No, nobody's really taking care of this right now.
	OSHA doesn't watch out.
	The FAA seems to neglect flight attendants.
	And in my opinion, the union seems to be focusing on other things, so nobody's really watching out.
	I mean, I get contacted all the time by... One stewardess recently contacted me.
	She got TB.
	She knows she got it on the plane, but she can't prove it, can't get any compensation.
	And there's a report recently out of Finland Of breast and bone marrow cancer among flight attendants, which is, I think, double or triple the normal population.
	Attributed to what, do you think?
	Radiation.
	Radiation.
	And all the other things that are going on.
	Remember, folks, airplanes are at a very high altitude, particularly on the long flights, and they're subject to a great deal more radiation, background radiation.
	Then, uh, we are on the ground with all this wonderful protection of the atmosphere.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Diana Fairchild.
	Hi.
	Well, good morning.
	Uh, this is Steve.
	I'm calling from Knoxville, Tennessee.
	Yes, sir.
	Yeah, I just want to ask Diana, um, do you happen to know if there's ever been an instance where, uh, a person has successfully sued, uh, an airline because perhaps they have, uh, had some sort of a medical problem brought on by the poor air quality in the plane?
	And the reason I ask is obviously because of the recent, uh, Death of Art Bale.
	Thank you.
	Well, I tried to get workers' comp benefits and the Hawaii court seems to prefer, you know, the aloha spirit to human rights.
	And I've been nine years trying to get my work comp benefits and just had the latest action from the Hawaii Supreme Court where they totally dismissed me.
	On what basis?
	They didn't give a basis.
	They just wrote a memorandum decision, so they first accepted to hear it, and then they kept it over two years, and then they denied a hearing.
	They wouldn't give me a hearing, and they wouldn't give me a decision.
	That's incredible!
	It is incredible, and I'm about to post all this information on my website about the legal things, because my attorney wants to take it to the U.S.
	Supreme Court, but you can't really get heard by them unless you have a national interest and that's why I'm really appreciative Art for the opportunity to tell your listeners that I'm trying to get heard, you know?
	Alright, well you're being heard, believe me.
	Now she wrote a book, Diana's authored a book called JetSmart.
	In it, there are all kinds of tips, like the ones you heard in the first hour.
	Practical things, like how to sneak into first class.
	Practical things, like how not to get sick on an airliner.
	And I guess all kinds of tips on airliners.
	Where can they get your book?
	They can call 1-800-524-8477 and they'll have, if they mention Art Bell, they can have a significant discount.
	$15 is supposed to be $10 for anybody that says Art Bell in the next 48 hours.
	You're kidding.
	Boy, they cook that one up fast.
	1-800-524-8477.
	If you mention my name, ha ha ha, a recent survivor of a near-air disaster, then you get $5 off, huh?
	Or they can go into their local bookstore, Borders and Barnes and Noble.
	to pay full price. And they'll pay full price. Yes. But they won't have to pay shipping,
	but then if they get it with the 800 number, they'll get an autograph copy. Oh, they will?
	Well, that makes it a kind of a hard choice. Not at all, really.
	All right, Diana, hold on.
	We'll be back to you in 30 more minutes, all right?
	Okay, thank you.
	Stay right there.
	Diana Fairchild is my guest.
	She was a stew for over 20 years.
	Now she's telling all.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 24th, 1997.
	We're starting from the heart.
	Do you remember that day?
	That surely day.
	When you first came my way.
	I said no one could take your place.
	And if you get hurt, if you get hurt, By the little things I say.
	I can put that smile back on your face.
	When it's alright and it's coming on.
	We gotta get right back to where we started from.
	Love is good, love can be strong.
	We gotta get right back to where we started from.
	Coast to Coast AM from February 24th, 1997.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 24th, 1997.
	Wait till you hear about the call I just got.
	I wouldn't go on the air, but I'm gonna paraphrase what he said as best I can.
	another captain and uh i'll tell you all about it in a moment
	you're listening to art bell somewhere in time on premier radio networks
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 24th, 1997.
	Music All right, and airlines too for over 20 years for Pan Am
	and United.
	Here once again is Diana Fairchild.
	Diana, I just had a call from a pilot, another pilot, but he wouldn't come on the air.
	I'll tell you what he said.
	He said, boy, is she a dingbat.
	She's a complainer.
	I've dealt with stews like her for years and years and years and years.
	They're all the same, he said.
	I said, well, come on on the air.
	You would say that right to her face.
	Oh, no, I don't want to go in the air.
	And I said, come on.
	You're going to say it.
	Say it to her.
	He wouldn't, but he said almost every stew he knows is just like you.
	What do you say to that?
	Well, it's interesting because I've met a lot of really nice people on the Internet, and one of them is the pilot that helps me figure things out sometimes when I don't know cockpit things, but he wants to remain anonymous.
	Naturally.
	And so I got a letter from one pilot, kind of like that.
	What did he call me?
	I forget.
	Anyway, I posted it on the internet.
	I can read you what I wrote.
	In spite of the angry tone of your letter to me, I've decided to answer you.
	I took the liberty of forwarding your letter to another commercial airline pilot.
	Here's his reply.
	Mind you, some of my best friends are Delta guys.
	Still, there are some, every company has them, who should have stayed in the military.
	If he isn't simply having a bad day, Tom might be one of these.
	A kinder, gentler soul would have pointed out, and then he goes into how everything I'm saying is true, that the air circulation and blah, blah, blah, and where the switches are and, you know, he just backs me up.
	I don't know what to say.
	I'm sorry that the captain feels that way.
	Well, what does he carry?
	Sitting up there with good air, smoking a cigarette when he wants to.
	I'm sorry, I can't get over that part.
	Here's somebody who wrote, I have flown to Lagos, Nigeria twice in the last two years.
	Both times, without notification, I was sprayed upon arrival.
	You were talking about pesticide spraying?
	Yes.
	They do that, huh?
	Yes.
	All right, first time caller line, you're on the air with Diana Fairchild.
	Good evening.
	How are you doing?
	All right.
	Well, I'm all right.
	Hi, Diana.
	I have a question.
	It seems like every time I get on a plane, my main problem is the methane problem.
	It seems like every time I get off a plane, I have severe brain damage.
	It would seem, if I could get proof of this, I could see the living ball puke out of those airlines.
	Do you agree with that?
	And I got another quick question.
	Methane?
	Methane has a problem, Diana?
	I don't know about methane.
	I know that there's a lot of talk for chemicals.
	In particular, there's chemicals from fuel exhaust and off-gassing of cabin furnishings and things like that.
	What now, methane?
	I don't know.
	I have a report in my file that somebody, it's on the internet, somebody showed me where it was and I downloaded it.
	I don't have it in front of me, but it names all the gases and chemicals and things that were found in the air.
	Alright, I was on, recently, going to Mexico, 757, I got really lucky or unlucky, I guess, Diana, and I was just, you know, looking into the back of the engine, that's where I was sitting, right, a window seat, literally looking into the back of the engine, and I almost choked to death before we took off on the smell of kerosene.
	I mean, it was really strong.
	Really, really strong.
	Jet fuel smell.
	Jet fuel smell, yeah.
	Well, it comes from two reasons.
	You were sitting behind the engine.
	whatever it is yeah a very very strong smell now it began to go away a little
	bit as we got cruising altitude but oh man it was truly strong well it comes
	from two reasons you were sitting you know behind the engine that's one of the
	reasons I don't like to sit in back of the plane but also the diesel trucks on
	the runway and the plane in front of you in the takeoff queue and
	And all of those things are funneled right back into the cabin air supply.
	Oh, that's right.
	All those toxic chemicals.
	That's right, because you're literally in the wash of the last plane that took off, aren't you?
	Yes, you're in a queue, usually.
	Oh, I never thought about that.
	But also the diesel trucks as they go by.
	You know, the baggage trucks and the commissary trucks and things like that.
	Sure.
	No, but this was clearly the smell of jet fuel.
	Of your own engine.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	And a lot of them now, a lot of the airlines, you see, before they used to have, really prepare the cabin, you know, have the auxiliary power unit, the ground air conditioning on for hours before passengers would load.
	And now that's another cutback where they just kind of Put it on at the last minute, so the plane really isn't all that fresh when you get on.
	And then, they don't use all the air conditioning because they're using all the engine power for takeoff.
	So during that time, from the time that the plane disengages the umbilical of the air conditioning, the auxiliary power unit, which is usually either a private truck or inside the terminal itself in the Newark Airport, Once it disengages from that, until you're up in the air, there's really not much fresh air.
	Mm-hmm.
	Wow, Cardline, you're on the air with Diana Fairchild on Kauai.
	Hello.
	Yes, this is Charlotte, and she answered most of the question that was on my mind.
	All right, where are you?
	But also, I have another question.
	All right, where are you located?
	In California.
	California, okay.
	Northern California, around San Francisco.
	Okay.
	Now, I have a question about the pilots and their ability to put the air traffic control on the headset when you are in a 2-7, 3-7, or 5-7.
	And is it really their choice to put it on?
	And I requested from a flight attendant I would want to hear on-air traffic between San Francisco and Chicago.
	And between Chicago and San Fran.
	And I understand with United, because the cabinet attendants are not part of the union, that there can be a little bit of animosity between the cabinet attendants and the pilots.
	Boy, I'm sure hearing a lot of it tonight, believe me.
	Well, there is.
	You know, there is animosity from day one.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	I would think you'd all be part of a team.
	I mean, I always heard that you folks ended up on the laps of pilots and stuff.
	Not true, huh?
	Once the 747 came in, in the early 70s, that was the end of that.
	But before that, when we had the smaller plane, we were a little bit closer.
	So when the bigger planes came along, there was sort of a separation?
	I have a question.
	separation, economically separation, altitude wise separation, benefits, everything.
	They started staying in different hotels, they started flying different kinds of routes.
	And you guys didn't even date anymore?
	Not anymore, not much now.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Diana Fairchild.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I have a question. I take frequent trips to Spain now and then and I play guitar and I have a problem getting the
	guitar on in the bag.
	In with me, you know, as carry on.
	And I've had guitars destroyed in the baggage department.
	Do you have any suggestions on how I could get it on with me?
	Where are you, sir?
	Minneapolis.
	Minneapolis, alright. So, good question.
	I think every kind of special handling, whether you're carrying a guitar or you need a vegetarian meal or you're
	exceptionally tall or you're a wide body, body every type of special handling
	Need just to take a little extra time and try and have a rapport with somebody at the airline whether you try and make friends with the person you're making a reservation with or or when you finally get to the airport and you try and you know really connect with the person who's checking you in.
	I mean they're so busy looking at the computer often they hardly even have time to look up but if there's some way to connect with these people And I personally feel that just this small little gift, and I'm always giving my book out, and it's just such a little thing, but people appreciate it so much, and it's just a little thing, you know, you could give somebody for a favor, you know, not a bribe kind of thing, but just a little thing, a scarf, or I don't know, just travel with a few little things, and just say, you know, I have this special need, and I don't know where the best seat for me is on board, but
	You know, my guitar has been broken.
	I'm a professional player.
	I have to have it there.
	Can you please help me and figure out how to do this, you know?
	The human touch, in other words.
	Yes.
	All right.
	One more.
	West of the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Diana Fairchild.
	Where are you, please?
	Hi, this is Daryl in San Clemente.
	Hi, Daryl.
	How you doing?
	Hi, Diana.
	Hi, Daryl.
	Thanks for being here.
	Thank you.
	It's about time somebody got on this thing.
	I'm calling about, actually, something that happened to my girlfriend.
	She flew back east over the winter to see her family.
	And on the flight back from Chicago, they had sprayed the plane with a de-icing agent.
	And they said, you'll notice a little bit of smell for a while, but it'll go away.
	And it never did.
	It was overpowering.
	Not only when they boarded, but for well, well, well into the flight.
	And not only her, but her and her son both were really, they were bedridden for three days.
	Yes.
	They're, you know, throat's swelled up, they could hardly breathe.
	Yeah, I heard that recently, actually.
	I was reading about that de-icing, and that it's a very toxic chemical in the cabin.
	Really?
	Yeah, and it was bad for a long time.
	And I might go back to that caller who had an allergic reaction, but that's what happened to him.
	Well, you know what I think?
	I think that your idea... Now listen to me, everybody.
	Every aircraft has at least a minimum of four oxygen bottles on board, and after you're airborne, if you don't like the air, Diana says you can request one of these oxygen bottles, and after you're airborne, they can't charge you extra for it.
	They've got to give it to you.
	And as a protest, if you don't like the air, if they don't fix the air and turn on everything they've got to provide clean air, ask for an oxygen bottle as a protest.
	You have to be sick.
	Well, you can look sick.
	You have to say that you're sick.
	You don't feel well.
	I don't like the air.
	It's more like you just... I'm feeling so sick.
	May I have some oxygen, please?
	And they've got to provide it.
	They should, yes.
	And if enough people do that, maybe they'll do something about the damn air.
	It's got to change the tide.
	Something does, because I really... I'm more upset about this than you can know.
	I have a consumer activist coalition called Fair Air.
	Fair Air?
	Yeah.
	Really?
	And I'm fighting for this and, you know, anybody that wants to...
	Get in and help.
	That would be great.
	Uh, how do they help?
	How do they get to be part of it?
	Well, we can have $25, which would include, you know, newsletter and information, and also opportunities to travel with me.
	I sometimes travel with people who are on their fear of flying graduation trips.
	Ah!
	And then anybody who's joined Fair Air can join us.
	Hey, Diana, did you ever crash in an aircraft?
	No.
	Never crashed?
	Mm-mm.
	So it's not worth spending a lot of time worrying about, really, is it?
	Or is it?
	No, I don't think so.
	I think, you know, we just really need to inform ourselves and then decide that we're going to take care of ourselves.
	All right.
	Here comes a totally off-the-wall question.
	But again, I know people on the inside of some big aircraft companies.
	And so this is really off-the-wall, Diana.
	Have you ever heard of ghosts on aircraft?
	No.
	Never?
	There are a couple of famous cases of spirits of a crash crew, a crew that have died in crashes, that have visited aircraft.
	I just thought I would ask.
	That's interesting.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Diana Fairchild.
	Where are you, please?
	I'm at Houston, Art.
	Hi.
	I don't want to give you my name.
	I'm an airline captain.
	Oh, here we go.
	I've sent you a number of faxes today about various things with airlines.
	The reason that we have different air in the cockpit is because if there's a problem in the passenger cabin, they want us to be able to fly the airplane, even if everyone else is incapacitated.
	It's a federal air regulation.
	Yeah, but what about the complaint that as a normal course of events, people in the back are nearly incapacitated?
	Well, you know, I think that you want your pilots not to be incapacitated first and foremost.
	Well, I don't argue that.
	They've got to get the airplane down if there's a problem.
	Yeah, that's fair.
	That's fair.
	But I mean, when you talk about the quality of cabin air for passengers, I've been doing a lot of flying, Captain, lately.
	And what's your attitude about what Diana is saying?
	I think that she's pretty close to target on a lot of what she's saying.
	There are minor technical inaccuracies, but not of a substantive nature.
	The recycling of the air is really not a good thing.
	In actuality, the cabin air is supposed to be different from the cockpit air, but on the newer generation airplanes, the aircraft probably don't meet the letter of the law in that the pilots do get the same air, or a portion of the same air that's been recycled, as the passengers.
	At the particular airline that I work for we've had a no smoking policy on the in the cockpit now for about 10 years And our pilots don't smoke and in some cases of the passengers are smoking in the back of the pilots don't smoke Captain do you get a bonus if you say fuel?
	We used to years ago, but that went away when when our management changed about What five or six years ago?
	hmm, but you know now You can't smoke up there in the cockpit?
	No.
	No, not at all.
	And that's, you know, it's because it's such a closed-in area.
	Is that all airlines or just yours?
	It's just ours.
	I see.
	I mean, it's up to each individual airline.
	The unions get together, the guys in the union, and have a vote.
	They talk to their management and arrange it.
	That's what we did at ours.
	So then more airlines than not do allow the pilot to smoke if he's a smoker?
	Most pilots don't smoke anymore.
	Can I ask a question, Captain?
	Go ahead, Diana.
	I remember that at some point, if one of the pilots, the First Officer or the Captain, goes to the laboratory, the other one has to automatically go on oxygen.
	Is that at 14,000 or 10,000?
	It's at 25,000 feet or above.
	25,000 I see outside altitude.
	Outside altitude, that's correct.
	It doesn't matter about the interior altitude.
	Right.
	Now, another thing that you were talking about, Art, was getting sick.
	I've written the FAA about the radiation problem that Diana has mentioned.
	The radiation starts at about 10,000 feet.
	You're getting high energy neutrons down to about 10,000 feet.
	I've carried a Geiger counter for years to show people on my airplane, the crew members, what was happening.
	At about 18,000 feet, the Geiger counter comes off real low level, just clicking every now and then.
	By the time you're up to 28,000 feet, it's really popping along.
	By the time you're at 35,000 feet, it's pegged.
	Really?
	Yes, sir.
	So, in other words, if you spend years and years in the air, millions of miles, as Diana has, or as I'm sure you have, you really have been irradiated with a serious amount of radiation.
	Well, the FAA, or actually the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, changed the terms that are used.
	It used to be millirems is what they used as a standard for radiation measurements.
	I think they changed it to millisieverts.
	As a unit of measuring.
	But what happened is it confused everybody as to what the levels of radiation that they were getting.
	And it used to be when you received above 500 millirems a year, then you were categorized as an occupational radiation hazard worker.
	Interestingly enough, the FAA has admitted that the average airline pilot and passenger gets about six-tenths of a millirem an hour.
	So if you fly a thousand hours, The math is pretty simple.
	You're getting 600 millirems a year.
	Is anybody doing any studying on statistics of various cancers for people who professionally fly?
	I don't know.
	I kind of doubt it.
	The airlines really don't want the information to get out because they're afraid they're going to scare the passengers away.
	The FAA has had the dual mission of promoting airline travel and enforcing the regulations, so they really haven't wanted to do anything about it.
	There was a study that was out about 8 or 10 years ago where there was a notice of proposed rulemaking at the FAA.
	I was one of the four people in the country that responded to it because of my studies with the Geiger counter.
	All right, Captain.
	We are woefully short of time, so I'm going to have to end it there.
	Diana, you have been a great pleasure to have on the air.
	I thank you, and I hope everybody out there will buy your book.
	Number one, which is what?
	JetSmart?
	JetSmart, yeah.
	JetSmart.
	And hundreds of tips in there on where to sit, how to avoid getting sick, and all the rest of it.
	Diana, do me a favor.
	Send me a copy of your book.
	Oh, absolutely, Art.
	And for everybody else, if you want, it's 1-800-524-8477.
	If you call that number, you'll get an autographed copy?
	That's right.
	Autographed, discounted copy.
	Discount.
	That's right.
	$10 instead of $15.
	1-800-524-8477.
	And her website is available through mine right now at www.artbell.com.
	So go take a look at her website.
	Get her book.
	Diana, thank you.
	It's a pleasure, Art.
	Thank you very much.
	And take care in beautiful Kauai.
	Thank you very much.
	Nice place to retire.
	That's Diana Fairchild, 20 plus years with the airlines.
	And now you know why you get sick when you fly.
	I'm still not over the captain of their smokeless cigarette.
	I can't believe it.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 24th, 1997.
	This is a compilation of the songs from the first season of the show.
	boy, that's just fine Let's get excited We just can't hide it, oh, oh, oh
	I'm about to lose control and I think I like it I'm so excited And I just can't hide it, oh, oh, oh
	I know, I know, I know, I know, I know I want you, I want you
	This is a compilation of the songs from the first season of Baby, don't you worry And if we're still playing around,
	Oh, boy, I want to love you, feel you Wrap myself around you
	I want to squeeze you, please you No, I just can't get enough
	And if you move real slow, I'll let it go I'm so excited And I just can't hide it, oh, oh, oh
	I'm about to lose control and I think I like it I'm so excited And I just can't hide it, oh, oh, oh
	I know, I know, I know, I know, I know I want you You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM, from February 24th, 1997.
	Hey, hey, hey, you're about to get an update on Mel's Hole.
	We'll tell you all about that in a moment.
	Sound of thunder.
	Now we take you back to the night of February 24th, 1997, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Music.
	I received the following facts last week.
	Dear Art, I'm writing to you to see if I can get some help from you or your vast listening audience.
	I live in rural eastern Washington near the Monastash Ridge.
	I think I'm pronouncing that correctly now.
	On our property, there is a hole.
	Like the previous owners and the owners before them, we've been throwing our trash into the hole.
	Apparently, the hole has been there as long as anyone can remember.
	At first, I thought it was an ancient well.
	Anyway, the hole is nine feet, nine inches in diameter.
	There is a stone retaining wall around it, and we've put a steel door on top to keep anyone from falling into it.
	As I said earlier, people have been throwing their trash into the well, That's in quotes here.
	For decades, furniture, household trash, dead cows, building debris, you name it.
	The thing is, I noticed the hole never filled up.
	So I got curious, actually obsessed, began trying to measure the depth of the hole.
	I emptied three fishing reels of about 1,500 yards of monofilament trying to determine the depth.
	Soon I was buying fishing line in bulk.
	So far, I've sunk about 80,000 feet of line into the hole without reaching bottom.
	My wife works at a local university with a geology department.
	We hope to get some professional scholarly help in determining the depth of the hole, as far as I can tell.
	There's nothing else particularly strange about it, except for two other things.
	Dogs refuse to get within 100 feet of the hole.
	Birds won't sit on the retaining wall or metal door.
	Another strange thing is there's no echo when you yell into the hole.
	Indeed, I've never heard anything hit bottom when tossed in.
	We once tossed in an old refrigerator, and we never heard it hit bottom.
	No crash, splash, or crunch.
	I hope your listeners can help with possible explanations.
	I'm wondering if this, based on my measurements thus far, might be the deepest hole on Earth.
	Signed, Mel Waters.
	Well, you know me.
	I get a fact like this and I jump right on it.
	So I called Mel in the middle of the night.
	We put him on the air.
	Last hour of the show, last week.
	And we got the story of Mel's Hole.
	But now, Mel's Hole Part 2.
	I get the following facts.
	Earlier today, Art, You're receiving this fax simultaneously with a fax I attempted to send you earlier today.
	Much has developed since the first fax.
	I'll try to explain as rationally as possible what has transpired since my earlier fax.
	Around 1pm, I drove to Yakima to shop at the Costco there.
	On my way back, I decided to stop at the property.
	When I got there, my access road was blocked by military personnel that were armed!
	I noticed that several pieces of yellow gear had entered and exited my property based on the direction of their thread.
	I asked one of the guards, what's going on?
	He said there was a plane crash on the property.
	I said, well that's strange.
	I told him there's no smoke, I don't see any in the distance.
	He asked who I was and I let him know I own the property.
	I then asked to talk to the officer in charge.
	A non-uniformed man came up to my suburban and let me know that I won't have access to my property until the crash has been completely investigated.
	I mentioned the yellow gear and the lack of smoke and that they were on my property.
	I was told by this man that it's not necessarily my property and that it would be very easy to find a drug lab on my property while I got the drift.
	I asked if I could leave.
	He said, sure, don't come back until we contact you.
	I asked if he wanted a way to contact me.
	He said, they know how to contact me.
	I said, I suppose you don't want me to talk to anybody about this.
	He said, nobody would believe it anyway.
	That's about it for now.
	Oh, I talked to one of my neighbors earlier today and he told me something very interesting.
	He said that some time ago he was driving up to the hole at night And thought he saw the most bizarre thing.
	He said he saw a beam of solid black coming out of the then uncovered hole.
	I said, what do you mean?
	He said he saw something blacker than black coming out of the hole, like a searchlight reaching into the sky as far as he could see.
	So there you have it.
	There actually is more.
	Here is, from the state of Washington, here's Mel.
	Mel.
	Hello Art, Mel, and listeners.
	Hi.
	When I got this second fax from you, I called you up and you were totally, totally freaked out.
	Oh my God, I was, I'll tell you.
	I feel a lot better now, let me tell you.
	Yeah, you were just a pile of nerves when I talked to you.
	Explain again.
	You went up to your property.
	You were going to examine the hole, because we were talking about it.
	I'm sure you had interest.
	And they stopped you there, huh?
	Yeah.
	Well, originally, after the show on Friday night, I went out there in the evening and noticed there was some helicopter activity around the property.
	Uh, there was further helicopter activity the next day.
	Uh, and so I figured that, uh, clearly, uh, somebody out there listens to your program.
	Oh, yes.
	And, uh, I think, uh... John, I'm really sorry I brought this on for you.
	I didn't, it certainly wasn't intentional.
	I, uh... Well, uh, you know, uh, when we talked yesterday, uh, you felt that, uh, Probably the best thing to do is to be public in this matter.
	That's right.
	Your best protection is to be public, Mel.
	Well, anyway, there was a lot of activity around there.
	I've had some thoughts about this.
	If they knew where the hole was, I would imagine that they could take some readings of the depth of the hole from satellites.
	I don't know about that.
	I'm sure they have a way to measure it from ground.
	I'm not sure about satellite.
	Well, we did have a lot of hovering up there in the air.
	I'll tell you that.
	We did have that situation.
	And they stopped you, right?
	In other words, there was a barrier there?
	Well, there was.
	I'll tell you, I'm getting a little confused about the days.
	I guess it's now Tuesday morning.
	Yeah, that's right.
	What they had originally there was a barrier, not a barrier, but just armed soldiers, basically.
	Armed soldiers?
	Armed soldiers.
	Since then, they've erected some further down the road.
	I mean, you can't even... I mean, basically, there's the road, there's the access road, and then finally kind of meander into the property.
	They now have Jersey barriers at the road.
	What are those?
	A jersey barrier.
	Those are kind of like big chunks of concrete.
	Oh, like the bomb barriers they have at the White House.
	More or less.
	You could squeeze maybe one vehicle through there, but it's definitely being controlled over there.
	Now, this is your property, right?
	You've got the deed to this property.
	This is, well, mine and the bank's.
	Well, you're in the bank.
	We're all in the same situation.
	So they won't let you on your own property, and they're claiming there was a plane that crashed?
	Yeah, but that was the thing, and I said, well, where's the smoke?
	I've seen plane crashes before.
	There's got to be smoke.
	And, you know, again, I had talked to the officer in charge there, and I figure, you know, one of these military types would come up and, I don't know, maybe he was just dressed in civilian clothes because of, you know, the nature of what happened there, but, you know.
	You know, he told me that I won't be able to go out there until the accident's been investigated, and I was insistent about my property rights, and he seemed to indicate that this might not necessarily be my property in regards to the drug lab, so... But the problem is, I do have... Drug lab?
	I do have a sort of a lab on the property, but... Oh, no, no, wait a minute.
	You have a sort of lab?
	What kind of lab?
	Well, I...
	I work in the alternative health field here on the property.
	That's one of the reasons this can all come out now.
	I imported some plant life from northern Nevada.
	There were Native American plants that the Indians used there for treatment of various
	illnesses, mostly cold and flu.
	Anyway, so we, because of the nature of the climate, and it's very similar to northern
	We thought we would cultivate these plants and then use it as cure.
	It's a very effective cure.
	It's not a narcotic, is it?
	No, it's not narcotic.
	Then what the hell are they talking about drug lab?
	Well, there is a lab there, though.
	I mean, and... Well, yeah, but there's no, there's no, you're not cranking out crank or methamphetamine or anything?
	Yeah, but if they had, for instance, if they found like it was a drug lab, they could seize my property.
	So, it was their way of telling you, listen brother, stay away, let us do what we're doing, or you know, we might find a drug lab here, then it wouldn't be your property anymore, and you might even be in jail?
	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
	Yeah, so they were clearly letting me know, and my feeling was that they were in control.
	So what, we got some kind of national security hole now, or is it what?
	Well, um, excuse me, I assume by now they've made a lot of determinations about it, and it sounds like it's something they want.
	Today, on my answering machine, I had a message from my real estate agent.
	Oh?
	And he says that he had someone who was very interested in purchasing my property and would make me a very generous offer.
	Now, I haven't gotten back to him, but I think we can put two and two together here.
	Somebody wants to get their hands on my property.
	So what are you going to do, Mel?
	Are you going to accept the, quote, generous offer?
	And get out of this with your skin intact and a few bucks, or are you going to fight?
	Well, that's a good question.
	That's one of the reasons why I didn't get back to my agent today.
	I wanted to sit down and think about it before I did anything.
	I don't know what their so-called very generous offer is, but on one side you have a possible drug lab, and on the other side you have a very generous offer.
	And so I would kind of be curious to know what their generous offer was. Well that's
	a carrot stick approach, no question about it.
	Yeah, they're working me both ends here I think.
	You know, like I say, I feel a lot calmer about this now than I did before.
	Now you were almost panicked, weren't you?
	Yeah, yeah, I...
	It was just a little bit too much.
	You did some measurements.
	People were asking about the weight of the line that you were putting into the hole.
	So what have you determined?
	I did some real, real quick and dirty work here with this.
	First of all, when I was out there on the weekend, I was able to actually measure or weigh the line that's in the hole.
	And basically, I tied it onto one of these little fisherman's scales, okay?
	Alright.
	And, you know, it's a little spring-operated thing there.
	But I had to weight on that, including the one-pound sinker on there.
	It looks like it weighs about 17, 18 pounds.
	What does?
	The line that's in the hole.
	In totality?
	Yeah.
	The entire weight of the line.
	Basically, the line weighs 10 ounces for every thousand yards.
	Okay, so 17 or 18 pounds.
	Yeah.
	It's 20 pound test line, right?
	And you've got one pound down at the end of it, tied on the end of it, right?
	That's right.
	So one of the things is, and this has become a moot point at this point, but if I drop much more line down there, and based on what your caller said, this line will break.
	Probably at the top of the line, because that's where all of the pressure will be.
	But you believe you're down 80,000 feet?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, without a doubt.
	80,000 feet?
	Eight with, what is that, four zeroes on there?
	Well, those are miles, 5,280 feet.
	I believe I haven't done the map on there.
	I always forget how long a mile is.
	How long have you owned this property with a hole?
	We've had the property for about four years now.
	The guy that had it there had been there for a long time.
	I believe he'd been there for over 40 years.
	It's very rustic.
	I think I might have indicated to you, we do not have electricity there.
	We do not have phone service.
	It's just raw property, right?
	Well, we have some buildings and housing structures.
	All those were basically damaged with the heavy snowfall.
	Alright, that's right.
	Recent snowfall.
	Mel, hold on.
	We'll be back after the bottom of the hour, alright?
	Stay right there.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from February 24th, 1997.
	He was looking for a soul to steal. He was in a bind, cause he was way behind, and he was willing to make a deal.
	When he came across this young man, stowin' on a fiddle and playin' it hot.
	And the devil jumped up on a hickory stump and said, boy, let me tell you what.
	I guess you didn't know it, but I'm a fiddle player too.
	And if you care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you.
	Now you play a pretty good fiddle, boy, but give the devil his due.
	I bet a fiddle of gold against your soul, cause I think I'm better than you.
	The boy said, my name's Johnny and it might be a sin But I'll take your bet you're gonna regret
	Cause I'm the best there's ever been Johnny, rise up your bow and play your fiddle hard
	Cause hell's broke loose in Georgia and the devil deals the cards
	And if you win you get this shiny fiddle made of gold But if you lose the devil gets your soul
	The devil opened up his case and he said I'll start this show
	And fire flew from his fingertips as he roused up his bow.
	And he pulled the bow across the strings and it made an evil hiss.
	Then a band of demons... She's got better days to start.
	She'll turn her music on.
	You won't have to think twice.
	She's pure as New York snow.
	She's got barely day besides If she sees you, she'll unease you
	Or better just to please you Just be cautious and she knows
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired February 24th, 1997.
	Good evening everybody.
	Good morning, actually.
	Morning, I believe just about everywhere but Hawaii perhaps and out in the Pacific as
	as the darkness races across Now we take you back to the night of February 24th 1997 on
	art Bell somewhere in time I
	I I
	I you
	you You have got to get up to my website.
	You have got to get there.
	They wrote a big article that appeared in Sunday's Washington Post about the entire Courtney Brown affair.
	If you go to my website, you can read that article in the Washington Post.
	That's right.
	Sunday's Washington Post.
	Big article about this program and about the Courtney Brown affair.
	In addition, the harp listening frequencies are up there.
	In addition, my guest tomorrow night coming, Emily Lau.
	We're going to be calling Hong Kong and interviewing Emily Lau, who is a legislator in Hong Kong.
	The information up there on that is available.
	John Shepard's Strat photographs are up there.
	Wait till you see those.
	Whatever you do, don't miss John Shepard's Strat photographs.
	The equipment he's put together to try and entice visitors from elsewhere.
	And he's been transmitting for years and years and years.
	And wait till you see what this guy has put together!
	It's unbelievable!
	All that and more up on the website right now www.artbell.com www.artbell.com Now back to Mel, and Mel, a lot of this audience would not have heard, but there was another little bit of a legend of the hole.
	Apparently, at some point, somebody threw a dead dog into the hole, right?
	Oh yeah, I was telling you about that before, the other night, and yeah, people throw everything in there.
	There's dead cows going down the hole, there's sheep, whatever, you name it, it's gone down there.
	uh... through his old hunting dog down to the hole i guess is a form of burial
	and uh...
	that story i heard was that the guy the hunter was out there hunting one day and he saw
	his old departed dog it looked exactly the same in fact it was wearing the same
	collar the same uh... tags on it
	so he was absolutely the story is they were like absolutely believe the dog came back somehow
	And you believed it to the degree that you changed your will so that when you die, they were going to throw your body into the hole, right?
	When I'm gone, I'm going to the hole.
	Oh well, but maybe not now, huh?
	Well, that's a matter for conjecture.
	Today, I didn't have a chance to mention this.
	After finding out the story about the black beam, the other day I thought I'd go out there and do some more research amongst my neighbors.
	That makes sense.
	You can't go on the property, you might as well talk to the neighbors.
	I'll buy them a cup of coffee and find out a few things here.
	I had talked to one gentleman who is really quite elderly and has lived in the area for
	a long time.
	He said that originally, and this is going way back, so this must go back about 40 or
	50 years, that there was a series of stone columns around the hall.
	I said stone columns?
	Yes, and so I asked him, could he sketch out a little how the property looks there and
	see if he could place the stone columns on it.
	So he drew it on the napkin there and I said that's very interesting.
	I had my power book with me and I pulled up a picture of Stonehenge.
	That's exactly what the thing looked like.
	You're kidding.
	He said that they had these, like, pillars lined up, you know, just like that.
	He said it didn't have that thing on the top, you know, they had some, like, things on top of the pillars at Stonehenge.
	Oh, that's really odd.
	You can't get photographs, Mel.
	I'm sorry to interrupt, but I asked you about photographs.
	They won't let you close enough to take any photographs.
	I was afraid to take pictures of the guards, to be honest with you.
	No, I understand.
	How about a drawing, Mel?
	Can you get us a drawing?
	Yeah, I could do that.
	I had a question for you.
	The night that I talked to you, you said you got another fax about another anomalous hole.
	That's right. Colville area? Oh, that's right. That's exactly right. I've got that fact.
	And I'll try and get to it. Okay. On Sunday I listened to your show a bit and you had Linda.
	Linda, I'm talking about HAARP. That's right. Project HAARP.
	Now, HAARP is supposed to look for underground bunkers and tunnels and such. That's right.
	Now, maybe it's looking at your hole.
	Who knows?
	Here's a fax for you.
	The following is a theory regarding Mel's property.
	One, imagine two naturally occurring iron veins just happening to reach toward the Earth's surface around Manastash, Washington.
	There is a tremendous amount of naturally generated high voltage electricity deep in the Earth.
	What if The bottom of the hole on Mel's property is a naturally occurring focal point, a lot like the device that Mr. Markham built.
	The Earth could have its own, in effect, time machine.
	Over the centuries, through various quakes and so forth, all of the soil above the portal would have fallen into the bottom and been launched into some other time.
	This explains a lack of echoes in the apparent depth of the hole.
	Tell Mel to lower a clock down there!
	Let me tell you, I was over at the University Library today and I wanted to find out a little bit more about Earth geology.
	And one of the things I found out is the crust on average on the Earth is about 20 miles deep.
	Okay.
	Now, underneath the crust, and this is something that a lot of people don't know about, there's something known as the Moho discontinuity.
	The what?
	The Moho.
	M-O-H-O discontinuity.
	What is that?
	It's named for a guy named Mohorovic.
	He was a Croatian seismologist.
	But I don't know much about seismology, but I'll tell you what I know about this discontinuity.
	P waves, and I guess those are seismic waves.
	Yeah.
	Through this discontinuity move faster than they do through the rest of the earth.
	They like speed up.
	Okay.
	Normally they go like seven kilometers per second.
	These are going like eight kilometers per second when they go through there.
	And it's believed that it has to do with a chemical difference in the type in that area of the earth.
	So you've got the crust, you have the moho discontinuity, then you have the mantle.
	And so that region is very Very little known, as you can well imagine, because you really can't get to it, at least not yet.
	And the scientists really don't understand that.
	But we have this thing that goes on underneath the crust that is very, very peculiar.
	And I just thought I might mention that.
	All right.
	Well, I don't know anything about that.
	That's very interesting.
	All I know is we had all kinds of cool plans.
	I mean, we were going to... I had... Mel, I'm telling you, I've got volunteers who are willing to go down in your hole, but now that's obviously not going to occur because they have your hole.
	I mean, this is outrageous.
	This is your property.
	Yeah, it is my property.
	That's the incredible thing.
	I could not step one inch onto my property.
	My deepest incursions only got me onto the access road.
	I mean, I was kept way away from that thing there.
	How far is it from the access road where you were stopped to the hole?
	Oh gosh, you'd have to travel, oh gosh, I would say it's from the access road, it's very hilly ground over there, so you kind of have to go around all the low spots there.
	You might go about a mile and a half or more.
	You can't even see the little light valley that I'm in.
	Before you began dropping this monofilament line into the hole with the weight, you threw an entire refrigerator down this hole and then listened and listened and listened and never heard a thing?
	Nothing.
	Nothing.
	I mean, again, I didn't hear anything.
	I mean, I expected something that massive.
	You know, and I expected something, but I've thrown things there that I knew would make interesting sounds, like television tubes, picture tubes.
	Yeah, they explode.
	Yeah, those are my favorite, and no, I couldn't get an explosion or anything out of them, so I have not heard anything actually touch bottom in that thing.
	I mean, it's almost impossible, it seems.
	You know, I mean, if the hole right now, I don't know, is 15, 16, 17 miles, you know, how long would it take for the sound to travel back, you know, if it is hitting bottom?
	Let's say it's hitting bottom at, say, 15 miles.
	You know, how long would it take?
	Or would I hear it at all?
	You know, those are things, you know, I don't know.
	I don't think so.
	I mean, you don't hear things that occur... Well, on the other hand, though, it's a channeled... It sure is.
	I don't know the physics involved in such a deep hole.
	Have you ever heard of any other holes?
	No.
	That's why I was curious about the Colville Hole.
	I did find out that actually the deepest mine is like 2.3 miles into the earth.
	So this is way, way beyond anything that anybody's ever heard of.
	Yeah, but that's a mine.
	That's a mine structure.
	Another thing I was curious about was that channel that they built underneath the English Channel between England and France.
	Not how deep it is, but how long is it?
	Is it several miles?
	I almost rode on it.
	It's funny you should mention it.
	I almost rode on it last time I was in London.
	But I didn't, so I don't exactly know.
	I saw the entrance to it, so I rode right by the entrance to it.
	I would be leery of going into that thing.
	Well, then you certainly wouldn't want to go in.
	Would you go in this hole?
	Your hole, if you could?
	I anticipate what will be going down in the hole in the future will be federal prisoners, I imagine.
	We'll be going down there on a non-voluntary basis, I assume, because I mean, you know, if we're talking the government here, which it is obviously the government that's been interested in this, they have every piece of technology they could ever want.
	They could send out cameras, they could send out whatever they want it
	you know that so it i assume at some point they determined
	that was safe for uh... human being to go down both of the a person down you know they take your readings of it's got
	good air bad air you'll find out what's going on
	uh...
	yeah i i i i'd say that that you know they they would do that you know i i i
	Again, I'm just like a poor, ordinary little guy here who doesn't have a lot of technology.
	Well, how would you like to get a whole bunch of citizens together, Mel, and go marching on that property and challenge their authority to take your property like that?
	Well, we talked about that over coffee with the guy that told me.
	About the stones out there, you know, saying, you know, I mean, you know, we're, we're pretty, what's, uh, we're big on property rights here.
	Yeah, this is your hole, not theirs.
	And, and, uh, you know, we're, I mean, you know, very, very militant about that.
	And they say, you know, how, how can they do that here?
	Uh, you know, the truth is, you know, if they say a plane crashed on property, you know, and I, you know, I don't have any evidence of that, but I mean, you know, I expect to see some smoke.
	But, you know, if they're telling people this is an accident scene, we have to do an investigation, you know, FAA and all that business there.
	All right, do they tell you what kind of airplanes, civilian, military, or what?
	No.
	No, no.
	All right.
	Well, are there any reports?
	I mean, after all, you can check on plane crashes, right?
	Well, first of all, over here, if a kid throws a snowball at your car, you know what time they make the newspaper.
	I mean, so... So there should have been big news if a plane went down there.
	Oh, you bet.
	I mean, we've had planes go down here before.
	I mean, we've had planes go down, you know, on the other side of the mountain and make a newspaper here.
	I mean, you know, that's a big deal.
	Alright, well, then look.
	Then instead of a crowd of civilians, maybe that was a bad idea.
	How about a crowd of media?
	I mean, I could get Seattle media by your side and go marching right up to that group.
	Right up to the barrier.
	Yeah, and then I end up being a convicted drug cooker.
	They actually said that to you?
	Those were almost verbatim the exact words they said.
	You know, we could find a drug lab on this property if you get my drift.
	Yes, very easily.
	All right.
	Mel, let's take a few calls, see if anybody has any ideas.
	This one has me stumped.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel.
	Hello.
	Hello there.
	Yes, this is Robert in Milwaukee.
	Hi, Robert.
	I just had a thought connecting Stephen Greer at SeaCity with what he said concerning interplanetary travel.
	And, uh, drew a connection to the cloning.
	I find it very interesting that the scientists say they're not going to consider cloning humans.
	Oh, baloney!
	That's a bunch of crap!
	You know, don't listen to that.
	Excuse me for a second, Mel.
	On the subject of cloning, you know, all day I've been listening to this drivel.
	Uh, from the scientists of, uh, about the cloning thing, that we're not gonna do it.
	Oh, well, yes, uh, this technology will allow cloning, but we're not gonna do it.
	That is utter garbage, and when we get around to talking about cloning, which we will, We're going to talk about it in an entirely different vein, because unless you are naive beyond belief, spending your time talking about whether we should or shouldn't, will or won't, is baloney, because we will.
	I guess you can say, should we?
	But we will.
	I guarantee you we're going to clone.
	Anyway, that is not tonight's subject or the moment's subject.
	Mel's hole is, first time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hey, Mel.
	Yeah, hi there.
	Hi there.
	Where are you, sir?
	I'm in Oregon.
	My name's Pete.
	All right, Pete.
	Okay.
	Where in Oregon are you?
	Corvallis.
	Corvallis.
	Okay, I know where that is, sure.
	Okay, yeah, I was listening to the show, and I guess it's a delayed broadcast out here.
	I was listening to earlier stuff.
	No, no, this is about Mel's Hole.
	Mm-hmm.
	Go ahead, sir.
	And yeah, I would just say to Mel that you need to get in contact with Just about every media person that you can think of.
	He's done that with me, and I agree with you.
	I just said to Mel that he should take, you know, like an army of cameras out there.
	But he's afraid that he's going to end up in jail.
	Now, he's got a point.
	I mean, suppose the army of cameras with Mel and Toe arrive, and there's feds there saying, sorry, this is a crime scene.
	Oh, is this Mel Waters?
	Well, you're under arrest, Mel.
	Well, I have to tell you that as far as I, you know, what I believe is now that the surface of the hole there has been, you know, there's a lot of snow on the property has been covered up with snow.
	I think that's what the yellow gear was there for, is to, you know, groom it all.
	so you can't see it from there.
	Well, I think there's a lot of questions that need to be answered.
	And it's who?
	If the military is out there, if there was a plane crash, I think the media would want to know what kind of plane it
	was, who was flying it.
	I will... Well, you see, the thing is, I'm the one that's saying that there was a plane crash.
	Yeah, Mel, I'll tell you something.
	And for what it's worth, if it was a civilian airplane that crashed, that would be in the news.
	If it was a regular military airplane that crashed, that would be in the news.
	But there are some type of aircraft that crash, Mel, that, believe me, it does not make the news.
	We have them out here.
	They crash and you see the military cordon off.
	Miles of area, and there's no news about it at all.
	You know, there's secret aircraft that fly and crash, but I don't think that's what happened there, and neither do you, do you?
	No, I don't believe that anything crashed there, because I didn't have, I mean, I didn't have the smell of smoke.
	I didn't see any smoke.
	It was a beautiful, beautiful clear day.
	I mean, if there was any, and it wasn't particularly windy, if there was a crash, there'd be evidence that there'd be smoke.
	Well, I'll tell you one thing.
	I would be very cautious, Mel, about accepting a generous offer for the property with a hole.
	Because, you know what?
	No matter what else, Mel, your hole is worth millions of dollars.
	If it's what you say it is, if it's as deep as you say it is, man, you could fence a property and sell tickets.
	Well, I think I also mentioned that they actually moved on to the property several mobile, those like temporary buildings.
	Oh!
	They actually moved that on to the property.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah, one of the neighbors said he saw like almost like a parade of these things going out there, like three, four of them, plus some generator equipment there, too.
	My God.
	All that stuff.
	How long after the broadcast did this parade begin?
	It was Saturday night, I was out there pretty late.
	And we did the broadcast between, I think, 3 and 4 o'clock Pacific time, Saturday morning.
	Yeah, so I got some sleep and went out there in the evening and did my weighing of the line in the hole.
	And that's when I saw the first helicopter out there.
	And that was a very strange experience.
	You know, I actually looked up at this thing here for about 20 minutes, you know.
	There were more helicopters out there Saturday morning, early.
	Several of them coming in and out.
	That was Sunday morning.
	And then by today, you know, the chronology is getting real confusing for me.
	No, yesterday I guess, really.
	Yeah, I lost a day in New York.
	What they saw was actually some mobile buildings being moved onto property.
	Apparently some generators, they're going to have no power or phone on the property.
	We use cell phone if we need to make a call.
	Well, I feel in a way guilty, Mel, but your original facts got me going, and there was no way not to follow up on that, and I guess once we aired that, it was too late, it was a done deal.
	When I originally approached this thing here, what I wanted to do was get some good ideas about the nature of this thing.
	I guess I was pretty naive about it.
	Alright, Mel, one thing I've got to ask you.
	Don't think me rude, but I've got to ask.
	That's not a drug lab you've got out there, is it?
	No, no, no.
	We are working with Native American plants.
	They're plants that Native Americans used in making what they This was a Northern Nevada doctor, back in World War I time, who found a cure for the flu.
	He gave this stuff to his... He was a military doctor.
	He gave it to the people under his command.
	All right, Mel.
	Hold on.
	We're going to do a break here at the top of the hour.
	We'll be back to you.
	Mel Waters, the guy with the endless hole, is my guest.
	We will start taking some calls.
	Anybody have any advice for Mel or thoughts on all of this?
	Yikes!
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 24th, 1997.
	Welcome to a new episode of Coast to Coast.
	networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast A.M.
	from February 24th, 1997.
	I just went, uh, and those of you who listened last week toward the end of the show, a horrible incident occurred with Superglue.
	Which I really don't even want to go into right now, but a bunch of carts, you know, the carts that we play, like this one you're listening to right now with bumper music and stuff, were in a cart rack, and my cart rack came out of the wall.
	And it's in there with some mollies, so I went and got some super glue and tried to glue it back in, and that's when the disaster began.
	I just tried to pull my Pink Floyd cart out of the cart rack, and I noticed That I had glued my carts into the cart rack, along with wherever else the glue went, which I don't want to discuss.
	The glue obviously got on these carts and glued them to the plastic cart rack.
	So now, the cart rack is off again, and a portion of the cart rack is in my Pink Floyd cart with piece on it, so I can't even get the cart in the machine anymore.
	I'm telling you folks, I'm telling you, You get sick, you get stupid.
	That's all there is to it.
	We're going to get back to Mel.
	We're going to get back to Mel in a moment with his sad story of the hole, deepest hole maybe in the whole world, as a matter of fact.
	We don't know.
	We'll probably never know now.
	Now that's the sad part of it.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from February 24th, 1997.
	Back now to Mel and the dilemma of the endless hole.
	Mel, are you there?
	I am here, Art.
	Alright.
	There are some people with questions.
	Do you have anything else you want to say?
	Just that after beginning to explore this thing here with the help of your audience and further uh... questioning uh... you know people you know that
	live around in my area here asking them you know really do you remember anything
	strange about the whole in particular well i would say a resurrected dog
	would be pretty good i would it uh... it
	you know it it just
	becomes more and more mysterious i have no way of understanding it i would say a
	darker than dark being that seems to go straight up into the sky would be pretty
	straight out that was that that to me was utterly utterly utterly fascinating
	you know dislike you know the whole itself is dark
	but for it to send out darkness you know if you go into the sky to to be was just just i
	can i can i can i can I couldn't begin to explain it.
	I mean, it was, you know, the way he described it, it was just... All right, all right, look, let's bring some people on in.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel.
	Hello, where are you?
	This is Phillip in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
	Hello, Phillip, how are you doing?
	Great, love your show.
	Thank you.
	Mel, what type of work do you do for a living?
	Well, I'm a retired person.
	I have no criminal record of any kind.
	Pardon me?
	No criminal record or anything?
	Uh, no.
	No criminal record.
	I'd find a lawyer and get a local group of citizens and press and militia.
	And that's a good reason why we need the militias in this country is to prevent this type of situation from happening.
	The government coming in, taking over your property, threatening your life.
	You know, I would, I would call their bluff.
	I don't, I don't see how they can, Well, that's easy to say, you know, from a distance.
	I'm not sure I'd call their bluff.
	I've got to be honest.
	Look, if you had a property, sir, and you were trying to get on it, and they had it all roped off, and they said, go away, you know, we could... I would come back with a gun.
	And they'd haul in a bunch of trailers.
	Then you know what you'd be?
	You'd be a dead martyr.
	You'd take a gun up to a military... No, I'd have the press with me, and I mean, I would not go at this alone.
	Oh, I see.
	You know, but they're not going to drag in a bunch of military trailers Well, I agree.
	I agree with you.
	I agree with you.
	So they're obviously after the secret of the hole.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Stan from San Diego.
	Hi, Stan.
	I've got a question there for Mel.
	If there is, like, any way that you could charter a plane that can do a flyover of your property?
	I suppose I could do that.
	There is a small airport here in Ellensburg, and I'm sure that can be arranged for.
	What I'd be interested to know is if actually planes can fly over that area, and I suppose I could try to find that out.
	To get some photographs?
	Yeah!
	But again, I do believe that the hole itself has been Covered over with the surrounding snow.
	They probably did a really nice job with what they brought in there of keeping it invisible from the air.
	That was my speculation.
	They brought the yellow gear out to kind of dress it up a little bit there so that anyone casually going over there wouldn't notice anything.
	That's just my opinion.
	Okay, and um, another thing is, um, I got a little obsumption on why none of the animals want to go by there.
	Why?
	Um, maybe they see the apparition of the dead dog and it's warning them not to go there.
	Maybe.
	Maybe.
	I mean, that's pure conjecture.
	Who knows?
	But no animals will go near it?
	Uh, you know, the observations I made was my dogs and other people's dogs, you know, that come visit, you know, they won't go there.
	If I put them on a leash and try to drag them there, they'll dig their feet in there, and it just will not budge.
	You know what, Mel?
	I once was on a trip with my family.
	We used to go to Florida, drive to Florida in the winter, and we once got near a slaughterhouse on one of our stops.
	And man, I had a golden retriever, and that golden wouldn't get anywhere.
	He did the same thing.
	He dug his feet in, and I don't care how you'd pull, he could smell the death.
	well i when i was in college i had a uh...
	brought proper school a human skull on the but i won't put on the coffee table
	but catwalk into the room they saw that thing and the cat literally jump
	backwards about eight feet i bet when he saw that now uh... how did a cat go
	since they sense these things uh... there's something about it uh... first
	time caller line you're on the air with mel hello artist dot kurt washington yes sir all right dot washington
	Not only from Kirkland, I've only been over on my side of the mountain for a little while, but I was born in Brittany-Acoma, a graduate of Central Washington University.
	Cool!
	I spent a lot of time in Ellsberg.
	In fact, I sat around with one of my old professors, who is one of these guys who has been living in the area for, oh God, forever.
	And he actually had told me rumors one morning over coffee, sitting in a I don't think so.
	in one of the little restaurants about a great big hole that nobody knew the bottom of.
	We had actually heard of this.
	This was back in 1990, 1989, sometime about there and we even heard that.
	The one thing that really surprises me, this guy that was saying, ìIíll take a gun and
	the media up there.î What a lot of people donít realize, Art, and I think that most
	people donít realize is he lives about, depending on where the hole is, between five and ten
	miles away from one of the largest military reservations in the Pacific Northwest, possibly
	the western United States.
	It is humongous out there.
	The Yakima Firing Center is where they did all of the training for Desert Storm.
	They have a bunch of satellite dishes up there that theoretically don't exist, that they use for talking to satellites that aren't there.
	And all sorts of things, very interesting things go on up there.
	Something like this, a hole appearing within spitting distance of this military reservation, it doesn't really surprise me a whole lot that they had trucks and stuff out there in a lightning bolt.
	Hey, Mel, do we know how long that hole has actually been there?
	I mean, I can probably trace this hole back, you know, from, you know, actual recollections, you know, to for a solid 40 years before.
	I got there and the previous owner said it was their next owner back.
	Before that, I don't know if anyone owned the property.
	I suppose I could check on that to see from the records there if there's been any ownership of it or whatever.
	But I can trace it back for a good solid 40 years, at least from the verbatim accounts from the previous owner.
	I don't really know.
	I would venture to say, given the nature of it, that it's been there for a very, very long time.
	Not just decades.
	How can this thing just be there?
	It has to be ancient.
	Well, I wish you the best in figuring out what it is.
	We're all of us local here.
	We're going to keep tuned in to see if there's anything.
	We're driving back across the mountains to hang out and see.
	Well, I've just been out here for just a couple of years.
	I've decided to retire out here and pursue my interest in alternative health.
	This is what I get.
	Alright, well it's turned into a nightmare.
	Yes.
	An absolute nightmare.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel.
	Yeah, about that hole.
	Yes, sir.
	There was a Rod Sterling thing I saw on TNT, I think, about four years ago.
	He was hosting it.
	It must have been early 80s, late 70s.
	And there were reenactments of these true occurrences.
	Yeah.
	And there was a hole story about a boy.
	It looked like it took place when they still rode horses or something.
	A boy woke up with his dog missing or something and he went looking for his dog and fell into a hole except, you know, he didn't fall in.
	He hung on to the edge and crawled out and went and told his dad and his dad went out there and they heard noises coming out of it.
	Oh, God.
	And so they didn't think it was the dog making the noises because it sounded real spooky and stuff.
	He went to town and got a bunch of guys to go out there with him.
	I guess a bunch of guys went out there and they thought, well, let's lower a rope and
	somebody is going to have to go down on it.
	And so the dad said, well, I'll do it since you're looking for your dog and stuff.
	And they lowered him down and he made this scream, deadly scream.
	So they brought him up and I guess after that, after they brought him up, he went clinically
	insane for the rest of his life.
	All right.
	Well, I hope you're not in any danger of going clinically insane, Mel.
	I hope not.
	But you sounded close to being discombobulated when I spoke with you.
	When was that?
	Sunday afternoon, I think.
	Was that Sunday afternoon?
	Sunday evening, something like that.
	I mean, you called me up and you were just a wreck.
	Yeah, I was.
	Any negative, fearful emotion, I had it there.
	I mean, I was shaking.
	I was sweating.
	My body was doing things that I couldn't explain.
	I was a wreck.
	What do you think about the idea of your not even going out, but sending the media out?
	I could do that in terms of saying, I think there's something interesting going on over there, and send them out there, and what I assume that'll happen is that they did go.
	If they thought it was a valid story, they'll say, uh... conducting military exercises on on this land here and uh... there's nothing for you to see you know and and uh... i think that'll be it again this guy was real clear to me he said look i asked him i said look i suppose you don't want me to talk to anybody about this and he said hey no one's going to believe you anyway you can tell them anything you want you know why are they going to believe you alright well uh... you know
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Mel.
	Hello.
	Hello there.
	Hi.
	Maxine in Southern California.
	Hi, Maxine.
	I am very interested in the conversation that's been going on with Mel.
	I heard the program the other night, and you know, he's really in a big dilemma.
	Well, he is now.
	And I feel somewhat responsible.
	Yeah, I understand that.
	You know, the first thing he needs to do is get a good lawyer, somebody that's prominent like that.
	I can't recall his name.
	Spence from Wyoming?
	Jerry Spence.
	Jerry Spence.
	Somebody like that.
	Maybe your listeners could do a writing to Janet Reno, the President or the Vice President, on his behalf.
	Keep him in the background because with the power they've got, they can just wrap him up and we might never hear from him again.
	Yeah, that's right.
	I guess I'm going to have to stay in touch with you, Mel, to be sure that you don't meet some... Well, you know, they're working me from both sides here, as far as I can tell.
	What it sounds like, yeah.
	Yeah, I mean, it looks like... I guess it's like the Godfather.
	They want to make me an offer I can't refuse.
	There's a lot of armchair soldiers out there, Mel, and they're going to say, what's the matter with you?
	You've got to get in there and fight.
	Tell them to go to hell.
	But the fact of the matter is, if I were in your situation, I might be very disinclined to fight.
	I might be much more inclined to take a, quote, generous offer and get out from under while I can.
	If I actually get to talk to somebody in a position of authority who wants to sit down I'm not talking about my real estate agent.
	Honestly, I'm going to ask for a relocation to another country is what I'm going to do.
	You want to be sent out of the country?
	Yeah, I'd like to be sent to Australia, for instance, where Stan Dale is.
	Be an expatriate.
	Some place that's geologically sound.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel, who's still an American at this moment.
	Hi, my name's Brad.
	I'm calling from Lexington, Kentucky.
	Hi, Brad.
	Hi.
	When I heard about this hole, it kind of reminded me of the story with the hole they dug.
	I think it was in Europe.
	Scandinavia, Scandinavia.
	They lowered a microphone?
	Yeah, I'll tell you what, that was an Associated Press story, and they lowered a microphone in and they heard the screaming, agonized sounds of thousands of people in agony, they said.
	That was an actual AP story.
	Now, it may have turned out to have been not true, but AP ran that story.
	So, I don't know, I mean...
	Yeah, maybe it's the entrance to hell.
	I don't know.
	There isn't even an echo that comes out of this.
	I mean, you don't even hear it.
	I mean, as far as the animal, it's not wanting to go near it, you know?
	Yeah, yeah.
	There is that, but he says there's not a sound.
	I mean, it's totally dead, right, Mel?
	Yeah, I mean, unless you hit the side of the thing there, when you drop something in and it's like close to the surface, you know, you hear it there.
	After a certain point, you wouldn't hear anything anyway.
	Now, when you dropped a refrigerator in, I'm curious how you can drop a refrigerator.
	Now, 9 feet 9 inches, pretty good size diameter, but how do you get the fridge in the middle to drop it so that you don't slam it into the sides?
	Well, you get like one of your buddies over there, and you get it over there on its, you know, so it's like leaning over on its back, and you slide it over on the stone wall, and you just kind of give it a shove, and it just sort of goes straight down.
	Yeah, that makes sense.
	It's not too difficult.
	We've been throwing stuff in that hole of all sorts of descriptions here, and believe me, we've done it.
	A cow is a pretty big thing, but people have gotten cows down in there.
	That's just about throwing anything down there.
	Actually, almost disgusting.
	Yes.
	In fact, the bottom of the hole, if there is a bottom to the damn thing, must be truly disgusting, a mixture of horrible Things of Earth that should not have been thrown in there.
	Mel, can you hold on?
	Oh yeah, I'll be right.
	Well, we'll do one more half hour and we'll be right back.
	It is a strange and wonderful world out there, is it not?
	Stay right there.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 24th, 1997.
	24th 1997.
	What a wonderful world.
	I see skies of blue and clouds of white.
	I see skies of blue and clouds of white, the bright blessed day, the dark sacred night.
	The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night.
	And I think to myself, what a wonderful world.
	And I think to myself, what a wonderful world.
	The calm.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 24th, 1997.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Mel is my guest.
	He's got a hole.
	Mel's hole, we call it.
	Now let's go back and give him a little challenge, all right?
	Mel, are you there?
	I'm here.
	All right.
	I've got a couple of facts here that are not kind, Mel.
	They say this man is lying, his voice is shaking so much.
	He's stuttering.
	He's searching for words.
	He's in a bind because you're paying attention to his fable.
	You know, it's a made-up story, they're saying.
	And you have to come up with something that would keep you from finding out about his lie.
	So here's another one.
	It says, Mel's hoax.
	Aren't you falling for another one?
	Well, I am a little naive, and I like stories like yours, Mel, and so I do tend to go for them.
	I mean, do you swear that this is absolutely the truth?
	Look, I would rather not have talked or called or faxed or anything in regards to this subject at all.
	Yeah, the people need to understand.
	You faxed me, but I'm the one who called you.
	I would have preferred, to be honest with you, to be there tomorrow morning letting a little more line down into the hall and just going along my merry way.
	And then getting you on the air stopped all that and plus put the idiots there that are there Taking hold of your... You know, when you have a situation about belief, what do you believe in and what you don't believe in, a couple of days ago we had this guy shoot a bunch of people on the Empire State Building.
	That's right.
	The Empire State Building's been there for like 60 years or whatever.
	And today I heard that they put metal detectors in the Empire State Building.
	Figures.
	For sixty years, people believed that the Empire State Building was a safe place to be.
	That was belief.
	And in one day, people no longer believe.
	So beliefs change.
	Yeah.
	And that's how I view beliefs.
	Should they've had a metal detector on it for 60 years?
	Alright, look.
	Let me ask you this.
	You have neighbors.
	They know about the hole.
	They've been there.
	They put their trash in it.
	Would any of your neighbors talk?
	Or do you think they're scared now, too?
	I'd be happy to talk to them and see if they want to talk to you.
	Alright.
	You know, I'd be happy.
	If they want to talk, I'll fax you a phone number.
	That's great, Mel.
	Work on that one.
	That's at least one other angle to approach this with.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel.
	Where are you, please?
	I'm in Cameron, Texas.
	All right.
	Gentlemen, how wide is that hill?
	It's nine and three quarters feet.
	Nine and three quarters feet?
	Nine feet in diameter.
	Nine feet, nine inches in diameter, sir.
	Okay, Mel.
	Uh, through the library, why don't you go tomorrow, and they can network books all over the United States.
	And there's one called, The Phantom of the Poles, by William Reed.
	And there's one called, The Hollow Earth, by Dr. Raymond Bernard.
	Okay.
	And I'll guarantee you, that'll open your eyes, because the Earth is hollow.
	They've never proved the Earth is solid.
	And at the poles, it's totally a hole, and it's about 1,400 miles wide.
	And people can't see across it, and they don't realize they're going into the Earth.
	Admiral Byrd flew 1,700 miles inside the Earth, and they shut it up.
	So the government's up to something here.
	All right, as a matter of fact, here's a fax, Mel, saying, regarding the hole, it sounds to me like the government's going to take the hole and give Mel the shaft.
	That is what it sounds like.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel.
	Hello.
	Hi, how you doing?
	Well?
	Another fantastic story, Art.
	Yeah, I know.
	I appreciate you taking my call.
	Sure.
	I have a friend of mine who also believes in the Hollow Earth story, and I've read two scriptures in the Bible, which I won't quote, because I know you don't like to talk about that.
	That's right.
	But there's one that talks about making graven images of things, and that would be even things that are under the Earth, and then there's a... Well, what are you driving at, though?
	Well, there are scriptures in the Bible that also allude to a Hollow Earth Oh, oh, oh.
	And so there's one in Revelation that talks about there's, um, they were looking all around to try and find somebody who was worthy to open the scrolls or the seals or something.
	And even under the earth, no one was found.
	All right.
	Mel, are you a religious person?
	Uh, I wouldn't, I wouldn't categorize myself as a religious person.
	Uh, you know.
	So then you don't necessarily feel there's any religious significance to the whole?
	I'm starting to believe that there's some supernatural significance at all.
	Well, yeah, the dog part and the other thing about the beam of the blackness, that certainly would lead in that direction.
	But on the other hand, things that we don't understand, Mel, seem as magic.
	Yeah, yeah, they do.
	So, you know, those are things that I...
	cannot understand you know and so i have to say i don't understand it all right look here do
	you want any help from your representative in other words
	it may be that your state senator or or your local uh...
	representative congressional representative
	would help you out and we could help you out with that too in other words fight power with power
	uh... that's an idea from john in redding california and it's not a bad
	one necessarily Well, my local congressperson is Doc Hastings out here, and he is one of those guys that believes in property rights and so forth, and so that would be an avenue.
	Again, this is an opportunity for me to gain as much information as I'm also disseminating, and I'm going to have to make a decision.
	I go in one direction or go in another direction, that will be it.
	There's not going to be a point where I can take it back.
	Alright, well here's another one for you to consider.
	I've got connections at Strange Universe, Hard Copy, all those kinds of shows.
	I could have those people in contact with you in two seconds flat, Mel, once you decide which way you want to go.
	Believe me, I can have either media power or government power, representation, to help you out here.
	I'm going to have to, the main thing I have to do is decide, is this tantalizing enough
	for me to move forward and say, well I want to claim this as my own.
	I want to deal with it on my own basis.
	Do I want to get out of it?
	Do I want to get in trouble?
	These are the considerations that I have here.
	All right, here's somebody saying, what about your local sheriff?
	Now, that is an idea.
	They're usually pretty friendly guys.
	Do you have a good local sheriff?
	We have a local police department here, and we have a sheriff's department.
	And they're all great.
	They're all wonderful people.
	Every last one of them is a great guy.
	Uh, but I don't know.
	I don't even know how I would approach this here.
	You know, my property is being illegally used.
	You know, I, uh, I don't know about it.
	No question about it.
	And you have the deed, right?
	You can prove this.
	Oh, I can, I can prove it's my property.
	I, what, what I, what I don't know is, you know, how can the government use your property?
	At what point did they develop an authority to use your property?
	Yeah.
	Let's say a plane crashed there, which is what I was told.
	Well, then they'd have a right to, uh, you know, salvage the plane, do whatever they're going to do.
	Alright.
	And they would establish a right to it.
	Alright.
	Here's Daryl in Rancho Mirage who says, kidding aside, Mel's whole, if in fact he is sitting on top of an access point to an extraordinary depth, he's also right on top of a whole bunch of trouble.
	The potential military scientific significance can go as deep as one's imagination allows.
	One thing is for sure, the government doesn't have this kind of response, uh, Uh, to retrieve an old refrigerator.
	I think Mel better get an attorney, presto, if he doesn't have one already.
	Remember, if they accuse him of a drug-related violation, they can re-go that property in a flash.
	That, that is, that is exactly what I believe.
	And again, I have something on the property.
	I have an old Prowler trailer out there that's been gutted.
	And it's where I do a lot of the work I do with the, uh, the plants I have.
	And, you know, I have solvents there.
	I have alcohol there.
	I have, uh, drying, uh, equipment out there.
	And, um, You know, it would take them 30 seconds to make it look like a methamphetamine lab or whatever it is.
	It's already my lab.
	That's where I do my work.
	I hear you.
	Alright.
	First time caller on the line.
	You're on the air with Mel.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Where are you?
	Hello.
	I'm calling from Reno, Nevada.
	Reno.
	Okay.
	Speak up good and loud for us.
	Okay.
	I'm sorry, but I just feel like you've got somebody there that's I've got quite an imagination.
	Well, you're talking to him.
	So, I mean, I've just said the same thing to him.
	Some of the faxes that I've been receiving are saying that, obviously.
	People don't believe.
	I just hope that you don't get all wound up in this like you did the Courtney Brown thing.
	Well, look, I get wound up in all kinds of things, dear.
	I'm not going to stop.
	That's what I do.
	Don't worry about me.
	Oh, okay, well, uh, I was just, uh... But, I mean, if you, if you doubt some part of Mel's story, go ahead and say so to Mel.
	He's here.
	Mel, I, uh, I think that you're looking for some kind of notoriety for some reason, and, uh, I think that you think everybody is pretty gullible that, uh, is listening to Art Bell's program, and that you're, uh, taking unfair advantage of him.
	All right, you've got to remember, dear, I called him Uh, but didn't he originally, uh, fax me for help?
	Yes, he did.
	Uh, well, uh, he faxed me with information.
	I read, as a matter of fact, I read the fax at the beginning of the program, uh, with Mel tonight.
	And, uh, I read it over the air.
	So, uh, he didn't anticipate that I would call him, didn't ask me to call him.
	And I had to look up at the top of the fax to get the, uh, fax ID to call him.
	Um, that's the truth of the matter.
	Um, I have no way of knowing, of course, whether Mel's weaving us a story or not, uh, except his word.
	And, uh, I can't imagine why, why he'd lie.
	I, I, to be honest with you and, um, you know, since you're from Reno and, uh, the main, if I wanted to be on the air talking about something, I'd much rather talk about my work with, uh, uh... indian herbal remedies uh...
	that would be a thing that would be preferred to be talking about
	uh... it just so happens that the uh...
	material of working from are from northern nevada from uh... your local indians out there and they're the
	ones that uh...
	have provided me with a line of research that i'm doing i have you know
	the whole thing is secondary you know but if i if i had a topic i really want to speak
	about it would be that uh... alright i understand
	now we take you back to the night of february twenty fourth nineteen ninety seven
	on our bills somewhere in time and
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel.
	Hello.
	Yes, Art.
	This is the Skip and Sacramento KSTE.
	Yes.
	A couple things for you, sir.
	The hole that he is talking about, his 80,000 feet, comes out to 15.15 miles deep.
	Sounds right.
	The Mohorovic Discontinuity he's talking about came in the International Geophysical Year, I believe that was back in the early 80s, maybe even the 50s, I'm getting so old I don't remember.
	It was called IGGI, the International Geophysical Year, where all the world's populations took part.
	Checking the depth of the shelf, Underneath the oceans and the molten mass down to the core and so on.
	How deep it was.
	There was a discontinuity.
	It wasn't even.
	And that's why it's called a discontinuity.
	It was named after this fellow, Mover Robeson.
	Exactly.
	Your glue stuff, you know, was developed for surgery for smashed spleens and kidneys.
	It made to glue skin better than anything else.
	Yeah, well, trust me, it works real well, sir.
	Thank you very much.
	It even glues carts into rocks.
	I don't want to talk about it.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Mel.
	Hello.
	Oh, I think we just missed him.
	Wildcard line, you're on the air with Mel.
	Good morning.
	Hi, Art and Mel.
	Hi.
	Aaron calling from Reno.
	Yes, sir.
	Good.
	I have a couple of questions and a comment.
	Mel, just, I don't know if anybody's asked you yet, but have you ever seen a UFO out around in that area on your property?
	No.
	Good question.
	You know, out here, You're liable to see all sorts of things, and I myself have not seen anything personally.
	I mean, this is one of those areas that can get pretty remote in a hurry.
	You know, Ellensburg is like 30 miles away on either side from the nearest town.
	Matter of fact, Mel, I've got a lot of confirmation about faxes and phone calls, people saying it is a very weird area.
	And, uh, they've heard stories there about holes.
	So, you know, this is not that far out.
	A lot of people are saying yes, there's a lot of weird stuff going on in that area.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel.
	Uh, Fred from Sitka.
	Sitka, Alaska.
	Alaska, alright.
	Yeah, and, uh, just, like, say that, uh, geez, I thought that the days of, uh, you'll just disappear into the Reagan administration and, uh, part, um, I'm very disappointed that you will not be coming to Sitka on your Alaska cruise.
	You're going to be missing out there.
	We're hitting quite a few cities, sir, but Sitka is not one of them.
	Sorry about that.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mel.
	This is Paula in Kansas City, and I want to tell Mel that I believe him entirely, and I think that Jerry Spence's idea is a great idea, and it's probably a good story for Linda Moulton Howell to go check out.
	I've already given it to Linda, as a matter of fact.
	Oh, that's great.
	And I think if he's told over 10 million people on the air that he's been threatened that they're going to falsely accuse him of having a drug farm out there or something, and he got a really good lawyer like Jerry Spence, they would never be able to follow through on that.
	Especially if he had a bunch of media attention like Strange Universe and stuff out there.
	Well, that was another idea.
	There's a whole bunch of ideas here on the table.
	Yeah, I think that I really think you should go for it, and I totally disagree with that lady who thinks he just wants attention.
	All right.
	Well, I appreciate the call.
	Thank you.
	I did call Mel, folks.
	That's the truth.
	Yeah, he faxed me, but I'm the guy who dug out the number and called him.
	He didn't really want to go on the air.
	For the record, Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Finally, I got through.
	Hello, Mel.
	How are you?
	Okay.
	Mel?
	Now, with this hole and these people who are on your land, you have to understand they
	are listening to this radio program right now.
	I'm absolutely certain of it.
	And you also have to understand these are military spooks.
	Bye.
	They are doing whatever they're doing right now, and anything that you do through the standard channels like getting a lawyer or anything along those lines is going to serve only as a delay You do some research.
	If it was a plane crash, there is radar coverage of that area.
	I'm certain.
	Oh yeah, yeah.
	There would be a record of it somewhere.
	Well, unless... If it's an airplane crash, where's the NTSB?
	Well, sir, wait a minute.
	Hold on, hold on.
	Look, I live out here in Nevada, and I can tell you because there's been some experimental planes that have crashed out here, and A, it does not get into the media, B, the military cordons off the entire area, and trust me, you don't get anywhere near it.
	I know personally, that's true.
	All you need to do is contact one of the air traffic controllers for the area and find out if there's any record of anything in that area at that time.
	You can also find out, I mean, if it's an air crash, where's the NTSB?
	If it has anything to do with drugs, where's the DEA or the Drug Task Force for that area, whatever it might be called.
	If there is anything to do with Anything else as far as the geological properties of the area?
	You can find all this information out from USGS.
	You can get satellite photos and infrared.
	You can get anything you want.
	Yeah, these are all good ideas.
	Although, I think the plane crash story is an obvious falsehood.
	It's a lie.
	You know, Mel, again, they told you, look, they could find a drug lab there.
	The plane crash story was obviously a cover, and the story about the lab was obviously a threat.
	Yeah.
	Plain and simple.
	So, my friend, I don't know what you're going to do now.
	And I guess you don't know.
	I'm going to think about it.
	I'm going to, you know, I'm going to think about it.
	I'm going to call the realtor tomorrow for one and ask him.
	I would prefer not to talk to him, but talk to someone, you know.
	I would ask him, too.
	Who is making the offer?
	They have to tell you who's making the offer.
	Well, you see, this property's not for sale.
	I mean, I don't have a listing out there.
	Well, yeah, but you can make an offer on anything, Mel.
	I suppose you could.
	Yeah, you can get a realtor and make an offer, and they will come and give you that offer.
	So, look, I don't know what else to say or do, Mel.
	If there's any way I can help you, if there's any media contacts or political contacts I can supply you with that will help when you decide what you're going to do, come to me.
	If there are any significant further developments that you want, or you get some neighbors who want to come on the air, I'll put them on.
	If you get any drawings, I'll put them up on the website.
	I'll do whatever I can do to help you, and I feel a little guilty about having solicited you on the air in the first place and causing all this.
	Well, look, I'm pretty rattled about this, I have to say, and I'm usually a bit more articulate than I have been.
	I apologize for that.
	It's a really stressful situation.
	No, I understand.
	People are just nasty, Mel.
	That's all.
	No, that's fine.
	I generally find that usually the people that are most well-spoken are generally the ones that you really have to watch out for.
	I know.
	I think that's always a good thing to bear in mind.
	I've got some thinking to do about this, Art.
	I appreciate everything that everyone has said.
	I think overall I've moved forward in this in terms of actually being able to resolve this within my mind.
	I think for that it was good.
	Quite honestly, your involvement with this may not uh... you know it may be happening now because of your
	involvement but it may be happening could be happening a year from now
	without your involvement. Yeah and everybody out there ought to consider
	something like this could happen to anybody. Ten million people or how many
	are out there they know about this. Mel we're out of time.
	Stay in touch, my friend.
	I'll keep in touch.
	Alright, take care.
	That's Mel and the story of Mel's Hole, and that's the latest.
	When there's more, you'll hear about it right here.

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