Art Bell welcomes new affiliates and announces a European vacation while discussing the Centennial Park bombing, Flight 800 theories, and a mysterious goat attack. The broadcast features extensive interviews with telephone hacker John Draper, known as Captain Crunch, detailing his blue box exploits, collaboration with Steve Wozniak, and arrest in 1972. Draper addresses modern encryption fears, government surveillance, and the K-Rat movement amidst reports on Timothy McVeigh's motives and Clinton's budget. Ultimately, the episode blends conspiracy theories about supercomputers and phone tapping with technical insights into early hacking culture and privacy struggles. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert and the great American Southwest desert country right out here in the middle desert country actually from the Tahitian Hawaiian Island chains all the way east over flyover country to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Isles south into South America north to the Pole and worldwide on the internet this is Coast to Coast AM.
Number one is welcome KSMB San Diego as we switch affiliates to the big 50,000 watt clear channel KFMB.
Welcome to Live Overnight Talk Radio.
Good to be here.
The second, also a big announcement, WMZQ AM in Washington, D.C. The nation's capital.
Glad to have you on board too.
So we lighted off Torch It Off in Washington, D.C. this morning.
And so it is going to seem a little strange, I'm sure, to the people in Washington, D.C., although you're in for a real treat, but I'm about to go on vacation.
I've actually been doing this show for about a dozen years, and it's been about a year and a half or so.
So I'm about to take off on a vacation, but you will never notice the difference.
As a matter of fact, it will be a wonderful opportunity for the people of Washington, D.C. to see what the show is all about, because we are going to be replaying some of the very best programs and best interviews recently.
Now, as you know, Friday night, Saturday morning, we had Richard Hoagland here.
The bombing in Centennial Park occurred, and we had to begin dealing with that, so we put off the interview, and a lot of you will not have known it because no doubt your stations broke away to talk endlessly about the bombing.
And so you missed it.
Richard Hoagland is coming back this Wednesday night, Thursday morning.
Then Thursday night, Friday morning, I will be here to do the program for as long as I can.
I think until about 3 a.m. Pacific time.
And then I will grab my packed bags and take off for the airport and turn the reins of power of this home over to my sister, who will be here during the time I am gone.
I do the program from home, incidentally.
And I'm on my way to Europe.
Somebody asked me what the schedule is going to be.
And actually, I've got schedule here someplace or another.
Let me look at it.
To give you a very brief idea, let me see.
I arrive in Copenhagen.
I'm going to be going to St. Petersburg in Russia.
We'll be there a couple of days.
During that time, we're going over to Moscow.
We're going to be going to Helsinki, Finland, Stockholm, Sweden, Visby, Sweden, Guatemala, and Berlin in Germany.
Denmark, Oslo, Norway, Dover, England.
So, as you can see, I'm going to be all over the place.
And that'll be at the end of the week this week.
And then we will begin a series of replays that a lot of you have been waiting for.
Frequently interesting interviews done at the end of the week.
Lately, as you may have noticed, we have precluded and not run them on Sunday night, Monday morning.
Well, there was a reason for that.
We were saving them up.
And so our new listeners in Washington are going to get to hear a couple of weeks of the most incredible radio I think there ever has been.
Tonight, I don't know what the hell we're going to do.
I'm going to catch you up on...
By the way, this is Open Line, unscreened talk radio.
I guess I ought to tell the people in Washington, D.C. that.
I don't know what you tell new people about this program.
We lean toward the unusual, sometimes even bizarre.
You'll notice, for example, there is a full moon up there tonight.
Well, it's full as of midnight or something.
So, expect the unexpected.
Also, one other little thing.
A very old acquaintance of mine, I guess I better be careful here, a man some of you who are old enough will remember the world's first real hacker, Captain Crunch.
Do any of you know of Captain Crunch?
I mentioned him on the air the other night.
We were talking about interesting people.
And his name came up, and lo and behold, Captain Crunch is still out kicking around.
He's still out there.
So, at some point, any point really, Captain Crunch may call in.
And if he does, we will interview him.
He is a very remarkable man, the real inventor of what was called the telephone blue box, which, that's a long story.
He'll tell you.
Anyway, the FBI got interested in the captain.
And I can't recall exactly.
It seems like the captain might have done a little time.
And he sort of built a time machine, and there are updates.
Madman has secured himself a large generator.
Very big generator, as a matter of fact.
And he is now independent of the phone company and doing heaven knows what.
So we may interview Madman.
Now, to the serious news.
Serious voice here.
The FBI has released the transcript of a brief warning phone call made before Saturday's bombing in Olympic Stadium.
Actually, not stadium, park.
It simply said, quote, there's a bomb in Centennial Park.
You have 30 minutes.
FBI, apparently, of some suspects in mind.
They say it is a short list.
Sounds like they're trying to pick a vice president.
They've got videotapes.
They've been collecting them.
And they apparently are fairly close to arresting this person.
Now, obviously, if this person turns out to be domestic, which they probably will, pipe bomb, and connected with some underground movement, possible, then we've got a whole new thing on our hands.
Flight 800, they are leaning toward the bomb theory.
Looks like the front of the 747 got blown away.
The back portion continuing in sort of flight for two or three minutes.
Hopefully the passengers were not alive during that time.
They may well have been.
God, that would have been horrible, horrible.
And then exploding and crashing into the sea, so it scattered out over as much as 40 miles.
Eight more bodies collected today.
And there was a terror conference, sort of, at the White House.
Both parties rushing in.
A bipartisan talk about terror.
I don't know what good it's going to do.
I just don't.
If it is a bomb, they're leaning toward the bomb theory, and I'm hoping for the bomb theory.
As you know, I'm leaving on TWA Flight 866 from Kennedy.
A 747 traversing the same exact territory toward Copenhagen.
And so naturally, I'm thinking, better a bomb.
Because the odds of that happening twice are A, slim, and B, security has been beefed way up.
But, you know, I wonder what they were saying to each other at the terror conference.
You could have increased security in dog-sniffing this and that at the airport and big million-dollar machines until the cows come home, and they're not going to sniff out somebody down line with a stinger or a Russian missile or whatever.
And by the way, while we're on that topic, I got a very interesting message on the...
Yeah, check this out.
Check this out for comfort level.
A San Francisco examiner, as two undercover federal agents met with a wealthy businessman in San Francisco to consummate an illicit deal for 2,000 automatic rifles, they were offered a far deadlier prize, missiles.
Besides offering to sell the agents heavy machine guns and silenced machine guns, great.
The arms dealer said he could also secure red parakeet surface-to-air missiles that he promised could take out a 747 airliner, according to a federal affidavit.
As with the downing of Flight 800, no one yet has come forward to take credit for the bomb blast in Atlanta.
As much as we all hope that foreign terrorists are responsible, there really is a strong possibility our own citizens might have done it.
Are they members of some domestic right or left-wing political group?
I doubt it.
Odds are, the perps of these crimes, that's perpetrators, are just a few of the thousands of nutball cases running around our fruited plane.
My greatest fear is that just as with the black church fires, the publicity and massive media coverage of these tragedies is going to spur even more senseless acts.
The criminals behind these crimes have succeeded in disrupting the Olympics, but not ending them.
On their face, the Olympics seem to be about physical skill and strength, but in reality, they're more about dedication, determination, and character.
The same can be said about America.
And that is why terrorism will never defeat us.
More comforting or quickening news for you.
Federal prosecutors in Seattle have charged eight people with this conspiracy after the FBI seized height bombs and machine guns in weekend raids.
I guess, you know, at the end of the year when they do the retrospective, this will be called the year terrorism came to America.
This is kind of an interesting, by the way, my webpage is down.
I'm sure Keith will notify me if it comes back up again.
But some server somewhere went and that was it.
So the web page at the moment is down.
Art, I've just come back from visiting a massive crop formation in the field next to Stonehenge in Wiltshire, United Kingdom.
So here is somebody who stood there.
The symbol is known as a Juliuset and is named after the mathematician who invented it and paved the way for many of the theories mathematicians now have about fractals.
It is so incredibly intricate and mathematically perfect that the idea of hoax is completely out of question.
As I visited there, military helicopters flew overhead several times, coming in close to study the form.
But how can anybody not see that something strange is happening?
Or at least acknowledge there is something that our present science cannot even come close to explaining.
This is probably the most stunning formation yet.
It was formed on the 8th of July at between 5.30 and 5.45.
A field situated next to a major truck road which would have been extremely dizzy at the time.
A pilot making a routine commercial flight said that no formation was there when he flew at 5.30.
He always looks down at Stonehenge.
It's a matter of habit.
The farmer discovered it at 5.45 p.m., stating he was in the adjacent field at 5.30, didn't see or hear a thing.
You know how long I've been looking for this record?
Long time.
unidentified
We've got to get right back to the start of all.
Be right back.
National Willkip Solutions00:03:44
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When the Soviets beat the U.S. basketball team in the 72 Olympics, America was outraged.
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But when our kids scored 14th in an international mathematics competition, we didn't even notice.
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Toll-Free Treasures00:05:48
unidentified
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Well, I volunteer at the school, you know, and I'd see her sometimes with a rough crowd, but she was thinking of them.
Most people are afraid of me.
They don't even talk to me.
It's not right, a kid like that, hanging around with nothing to do.
She just walks right up to me and said, I like your work.
Nobody's ever said that to me before.
I want to see you paint something, I told her.
And that's all it said.
She got me to do it.
I liked it, because painting makes me look at things.
I will not give you his real name unless he says we can do it, but this man is a legend in his own time, literally.
Not of our mind, his own time.
He's actually become a legend.
I interviewed, we'll have to talk about how long ago it was, Captain Crunch.
Now many of you, many of you who hate the phone company, stick around.
You're about to have a good time.
This man's story is legendary to those old enough to remember it.
For the rest of you, you're ready for a treat.
Captain Crunch is coming up.
The VTech digital cordless telephone is $129.95 for a little while longer.
If Newt Gingrich had had one, nobody would have been listening.
Most people, I'm really surprised.
That is the primary reason they seem to be buying this phone.
It wouldn't be mine because I don't say things on the phone that I would mind people hearing.
But it does offer that.
Absolute privacy.
I mean, people with scanners and other portable phones and TVs can't hear this.
It is totally digital.
For me, the advantage is the clarity.
I don't like terrible-sounding phones.
Hum, click, disconnect, you know, the normal kind of thing we get when we get people with portable phones here on the air.
For me, that's why I buy it.
Then there's distance, though I don't, you know, every day I take a walk, and so I know it works a mile from my home.
But of course, I've got a good straight shot here in the deserts.
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The number is 1-800-522-8863.
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Now our Senate, the U.S. Senate, which has a bill requiring Treasury to replace our money, the greenback, with a new style of multicolored money.
Ostensibly to prevent counterfeiting.
Call up the black market money, I don't know, whatever.
But somewhere downline, it could also be used to devalue the domestic currency because there'll be two versions, one to use inside the country, one out.
A lot of people, many, don't believe this Senate bill actually exists.
Well, seeing is believing, and we will send it to you free of charge.
I'm still, there's more kid in me than I would want to admit.
It's just thinking about that many years ago we did the interview.
Anyway, we need to begin at the beginning, and I know you've told the story a gazillion times to a gazillion people, but there are a gazillion people here now.
And so why are you called, this is a good way to begin.
Why are you called Captain Crunch?
unidentified
Well, Captain Crunch, of course, came from the Captain Cruz cereal.
And back in those days, there was a toy whistle that came in the Captain Crunt's cereal box.
Yeah, and apparently if you glue one of the holes up and the whistle, blow the whistle, it's it the pitch is 2,600 hertz, and that's the signal used by the phone company to disconnect a long-distance call.
Well, soon after I discovered the whistle, or other people told her to turn me on the whistle, the phone company was slowly switching their equipment to accept what are called multi-frequency tones.
A whistle, when I used it to pulse a long-distance call, that's called the single-frequency tone.
It was just a single 2,600 hertz.
Later on, the phone company decided to use multi-frequency tones.
Initially, when I first discovered it, when the idea occurred to me, I just completely went off the wall.
I was bouncing off the wall and real happy that I was able to do it.
After about the first few calls, where I called a few of my buddies back in the Air Force that I knew, you know, it started getting old, and they just stopped making long-distance calls.
There's nobody to call.
I mean, I didn't have that many people that I knew.
Yeah, the fun was going out of it because once you call anybody you know who's long distance, they get tired of hearing from you and you get tired of calling.
So after I've talked just about everything I needed to say to all my long distance friends, which really wasn't that much, I focused a lot of my efforts on understanding the internal codes used by the operators.
Well, if you left out the 121 and dialed just 209044, you would get a wink back and you'd get dropped on the Fresno trunk.
And then from Fresno, if you dialed 2 if you dialed 044042, or the other way around, you'd get another wink back and you'd loop back to Fresno and back to Modesto again, one loop, and you'd do it again, and do it again and keep looping back and keep looping back until all the trunks were moving.
There existed a phone line in Vancouver, Canada called the 2111 Conference.
To get into it, you could either use a Captain Crunch whistle and dial 604551212 and then whistle it off and then dial with the whistle and then one and you would drop into that conference.
That was the favorite conference to the blind phone kids who can whistle that with their mouths because they have perfect tits.
Well I kept getting on the conference for quite a while and started talking to these kids and I put it up on a speakerphone while I was doing my homework or other studies.
And I'd be listening to them talking all about this phone jargon and I started picking up on it and understanding what was going on.
And then they said, well, we got this other guy from San Jose, John Draper.
So I sort of became known as Captain Crunch in the 2111 conference, which was the f my first exposure to a large group of people all over the country that were accessing this big giant party line called the 2111 conference.
I have voicemail and I have an inexpensive long-distance service that provides me with exceptionally good rates and six-second billing you're committed to no surcharge with an 800 access number.
And I was very careful not to make any free phone calls from home.
But that didn't preclude me from using a blue box and experimenting around with the O codes.
I felt that if I were to dial into the internal network and not actually make free calls, actually just study and learn how the system went wouldn't would there's this thing with intent here, but my intention was not to be fraught with the phone company.
Yeah, in my investigation, the hacker found out that I was talking about him to my attorney and got very mad.
And he started to monitor my mail more.
And he discovered through listening and reading my mail that I was in the process of interviewing Ferris, found out about it, and contacted these potential employers that did not hire me.
If you've missed any part of tonight's interview with telephone hacker Captain Crunch and you'd like to have a copy on tape, dial toll-free 1-800-917-4278 and ask for tape number 970206-C.
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Police are now ticketing low lights to some who don't wear safety belts, so buckle up.
Surely you can give us a break.
No, and don't call me Shirley.
A message from the Department of Transportation and the Ad Council.
USA Radio Network News, this is Ron Jenkins.
The president presented his blueprint for the budget for the next fiscal year on Wednesday, and he said he was ready to work on a compromise with congressional Republicans on spending matters.
Cooperative Mood Needed00:09:19
unidentified
Senator Frank Lautenberg, a Democrat from New Jersey, says it's really a rare day and sees the president's budget arrive alive and well on Capitol Hill, and he says he hopes the GOP leadership stays in a cooperative mood.
I think the problem is going to be with the more extreme Republican members.
You've heard the commentary.
Will the Republican leadership, with all its good intenses, be able to round up the wild horses and get them in the corral?
unidentified
Most Republicans are reserving comment until they've had a more thorough look at the president's budget.
With a national strike deadline moving just a week away, representatives of the nation's number two airline, American, and its unionized pilots, sat down in Fort Worth Wednesday for the first time in three weeks, but the two signs are far apart.
We have the finest group of pilots in the world, and they'll do it.
I think everybody knows that.
They'll keep working professionally.
They'll keep doing their job 150% as they always do, up until midnight next Friday.
That's James Sovich, president of the Airline Pilots Association, who says neither side is budging on the issues.
The president is asking Congress to expand health care to about half to 10 million U.S. children now without insurance and provide short-term coverage to millions of people between jobs.
This is USA Radio News.
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Ecuador has a new interim president following the impeachment of sitting President Abuda Bukaram Thursday night.
Bukaram started out as a popular president but began turning the people against him when he started increasing costs of utilities by vast amounts and doing other unpopular things.
The Congress voted him out by a 44-34 vote Thursday night after near riots in the street.
They elected the leader of the Congress as interim president until elections can be held.
USA's Ken McCard is in the capital city of Quito.
The strike was very successful.
It began as a one-day strike on Wednesday and then it became an indefinite strike until he was thrown out.
Two million people marched and closed roads around the country.
There's been no gasoline delivery from Sunday until Thursday evening.
And McCard says the people are dancing in the streets in celebration.
An Army friend of Timothy McVay reportedly has told authorities that McVeigh told him the Oklahoma City bombing was intended to foment a general uprising.
This is USA Radio News.
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Federal Marshals are searching for former White House personnel security chief Craig Livingstone to serve him with a lawsuit.
U.S. District Judge Royce Lambert sent the Marshals to find both Livingstone and its former employee, Anthony Marcesa, after lawyers for a conservative group alleged the two men had evaded service of the lawsuit since it was filed last September.
The group's invasion of privacy lawsuit seeks $90 million in damages for the mishandling of FBI background files of five former White House employees that Livingstone and Marcesa obtained from the Bureau.
The suit seeks damages under the Privacy Act.
John Decker, USA Radio News, Washington.
A jury in Cincinnati, Ohio, has decided that nickels and dimes are more important than human kindness.
They've convicted Sylvia Staten, the grandmother who deposited coins in strangers' parking meters as a random act of kindness and said she was obstructing official business when she refused to stop at a policeman's order.
Ron Jenkins on the USA Radio Network.
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Just all five hours of tonight's interview with hacker Captain Crunch, all without commercial interruptions.
Dial 1-800-917-4278 and ask for tape number 970206C.
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All right, back now to the captain, Captain Crunch, who found out a way years ago, many years ago now, to defeat the telephone company's internal system.
And he did things like locking up trunk systems, having meetings with his friends in these big party chat trunk basements.
He was so far into the phone company, it wasn't even funny.
Now it is worth asking you, Crunchman, Captain Crunch, how a person who is now without a home, and that's a long story we began to tell, has a website.
Well, soon after we were playing around with the blue boxes, somebody who was also playing around with blue boxes was using blue boxes as well, totally independent from us.
And the article came out in Esquire magazine, and when it did, it means it hit the phone companies like a bomb.
I mean, their secret was literally out.
It didn't take long before Steve Wozniak, co-founder of Apple Computer, was pawing through the technical Bell journals at his local college and discovered a certain Bell technical journal that gave the frequencies of the little blue box.
He discovered that the frequencies of the little blue box were quite different than the frequencies that were published in Esquire Magazine, which were deliberately given to prevent people from doing it.
So Woz somehow convinced me or talked me into going down to the or going up to UC Berkeley campus at which time I gave him a demonstration on how to use the thing.
It took a while for the impact, uh for the uh impact of the Esquire article to hit home.
Uh about a month or so later, um the 2111 conference was getting switched over to the multi-frequencies because I was the 2111 conference was on one of the very few remaining single frequency trunks in Vancouver.
We're switching over now to the multi-frequency trunking.
And all of the phone hackers decided to have one big glass bash at the 2111 conference and have a huge party line to commemorate the staff of the 2111 conference.
And then the phone company was making the cutover to the new switching office.
They were fully aware at this point of all these calls coming to this very strange trunking mechanism.
So you had a set of tones that, in other words, you would just dial the number that's busy and then hit some special sequence of tones and boom, you're in the middle of the conversation?
We'd use a loop around and through the loop around we'd call the operator and we'd simply say, operator, would you please put us up on a node test trunk?
If you use the right telephone company, DART, it could just simply get the regular old ohm operator to do things for you and put you up on certain lines.
And then I'll post his number, and I got right up on Fred's line.
I said, I fed him up.
He said, great.
And then that way I was still able to participate in the conference because my particular incoming line to the 2111 conference had already been knocked down.
As far as I could tell, what happened next, the phone company basically contacted the Justice Department and the FBI to set up grand jury investigations in about ten different cities all over the country.
The purpose of the grand jury investigation were to subpoena these young kids who they were able to trace back to quite a few people's phone lines that were on the 2111 conference.
And then, and so then they probably, they sat you down and sweated you a little, didn't they?
unidentified
No, they took me down to the Santa Clara County polling tank and when the magistrate saw me, you know, or he rather basically released me on my own reconnaissance.
Once you respond wrongly to events and people of past and present operate through you.
unidentified
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For 6 million Americans losing their vision to eye diseases like retinitis pigmentosa and macular degeneration, sight isn't just a wish.
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Remember, if you don't lose the weight, you get the money back and you keep the cream.
Now, Vice President Al Gore has said, rightfully, that telecommunications is by all odds the most important lucrative marketplace of the 21st century.
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When you think back on those days, and I I did a few things, Captain, uh myself, that the statute of limitations fortunately has long since passed on, uh that um that uh that when I look back on them I know it shouldn't be true but they were fun.
Is that the way you look back on that?
Well you probably don't huh because you ended up in jail.
Well yeah but that is what a lot of companies like that do.
I mean these days the best of the computer hackers, the subject yet to be covered really, are frequently hired by companies to protect them from their brother.
Yeah they made a bad decision not to hire me because if they would have hired me I would have I certainly would have signed a non-disclosure agreement.
And instead they throw me in jail and while I was in jail I was exposed to the crane of people that shouldn't have that kind of technology and I had classes in jail.
And of course at this point the nation's you know publicity was all over the place so I guess everybody in jail knew who you were and naturally wanted to know how to do what you do.
No, because I wouldn't focus on busting my friend.
unidentified
You'd go after the I would agree to work for them under certain conditions, and the conditions are that maybe I fix their system or help them fix their system.
Well, the phone company, of course, was using a flawed system to begin with.
And their whole system was using this in-band signaling technique.
Back in the 50s, when they were bragging about how they were using the same wire pair for talking as signaling, they thought it was quite clever and economic.
But it turned out to be a very, very major security flaw.
So slowly in the mid-70s, early, I'd say mid-to-late 70s, the phone companies started to replace their old in-band signaling system to an out-of-band CCIS signaling system.
Used a separate data path to actually send this information back.
What I was going on to say was, technology has changed, and even though I was trying to help you there, John, even though you've never done anything since, have you kept up on phone company changing technology?
Now, you know, the guy who called 911, of course, 911 with the bomb threat, they knew exactly what phone that came from instantly, but you're telling us that any local call can be instantly identified.
Another thing I want to talk to you about, Captain, is they have the National Security Agency in Washington monitors calls.
As a matter of fact, President Clinton right now, because of the terrorism and the horrible stuff going on, is lobbying to be able to do even more of it.
But I understand that back in Washington and at MSA there is this big computer that monitors randomly zillions of calls going on all at the same time for keywords, what are called keywords.
And for example, a word like kilo, kilo, or I'm sure bomb, or, you know, words like that.
And when the computer catches those words, it flags somebody who then records the call, or the call is recorded automatically and then monitored.
The second time, 1976 it was, I got visited by a very, very persistent individual down in the Los Angeles area who just begged to come up and have me help him with his blue box.
To get this guy off my back, I consented to having him come and visit me, provided that he would never bring the blue box in my presence or take it into my house for any reason.
unidentified
I agreed to meet him at a place in a place far away from where I was.
Tune in Friday night, Saturday morning, when Chancellor Broadcasting Company presents The Best of Art Bell, featuring Art's most recent interview with Major Ed Daines on remote viewing.
That's tomorrow night on the best of Coast to Coast AM with our crowd.
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That's ensuring the future.
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Amazing VR Settlement00:04:56
unidentified
Just like Dad.
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We know that there will be some differences as we move forward, but the important message that we took from the Republican leader statements today is that they want to move forward with the president, deal with these differences, and balance the budget.
That's good news.
Possible strike against American Airlines by the pilots just a week away.
First meeting between the two sides in Fort Worth Wednesday.
No progress, though, toward a settlement.
James Sovich, president of the Airline Pilots Association, says actually nobody budged off dead center.
He did not convince them.
They did not convince us.
Quite honestly, I don't believe they expected to convince us, nor did we expect to convince them.
Sovitz says the air crews will provide the best service they know how until next Friday, and then it will stop cold if no settlement is reached.
Vice President Al Gore and top U.S. officials began meetings Thursday with Soviet Prime Minister Viktor Chernomirden, latest in a series of key meetings aimed at dismantling Cold War barriers.
We cannot, indeed, we dare not, forego this historic moment.
The meetings will continue today.
This is USA Radio News.
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The people of Ecuador are celebrating in the streets this hour the impeachment of President Abdullah Bukaram.
Bukaram was tossed out by a congressional vote 44-34 Thursday night after a general strike for the past several days by the Ecuadoran citizenry.
USA's Ken McCarg in Quito says Bukharam began as a popular president but then became his and the people's worst enemy.
Bukaram ran on a platform of supporting the poor.
Demonstrations Since Christmas00:02:59
unidentified
He ran as the poor man's candidate.
Then in December he instituted a number of economic reforms which saw utility rates go up around 300%.
Demonstrations have occurred since just after Christmas almost every day.
Leader of the Congress has been elected into him president, but there are three people claiming they are running the country.
Nobody knows for sure who actually is in charge.
Playtimes in O.J. Simpson civil trial Thursday urged jurors to punish Simpson by imposing heavy monetary damages against him.
Ron Jenkins on the USA Radio Network.
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unidentified
In a bid to defuse the fight with Congress, the FDA in Washington is proposing that home drug tests be regulated for accurate results.
We get details from USA's John Becker.
At issue where kids are like consumers collect and mail to drug testing laboratories samples of urinar hair.
They're meant to allow parents to determine privately whether children are using illegal drugs.
Congressional critics say the agency's decision to make numerous home urine test kits available is a step in the right direction.
Under the proposal, most home kits could sell without FDA permission as long as samples are mailed to laboratories where tests are done by a method the FDA has certified.
John Becker, USA Radio News, Washington.
An Army friend at Timothy McVeigh reported they have sold authorities that McVeigh told him the Oklahoma City bombing was intended to foment a general uprising.
And the facts are Secretary William Cohen says it may be time to review the Army's practice of training male and female recruits together.
Don Jenkins with news on the USA Radio Network.
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Many of you have no idea that there is a bill in our Senate, second time around, by the way, they are being very persistent, that would require our Treasury Department to replace our existing greenback with a brand new style of multicolored money that's already been printed up.
Not serious, long as they spend, most people would say.
But there's the rub.
You see, there would be one bill used inside the country and one out.
The coming crisis monetarily in this nation is going to require our government to do something radical.
That radical thing may be a devaluation of the current money.
This would allow that to occur.
This is not a joke.
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Probably the world's most famous hacker, Captain Crunch, otherwise known as John Draper.
And he's in the Bay Area at an undisclosed location.
On a payphone, I might add.
And he is somebody who many years ago hacked into the phone company's trunking systems, learned how to make free calls, had lots of conferences with buddies and other hackers until the FBI closed in on the captain.
Captain did a little time, paid his debt to society, had his record expunged, and is telling his story now.
And we've got Captain, I think, still there, right?
And let me see if I can get the captain back on the line.
Obviously, we've run into some difficulty here, so stand by.
Captain Crunch has been disconnected.
No big surprise there, I'm afraid.
We're going to see if we can get him back on the line.
So, Captain, if you're out there, get the line back open or something.
And I've got a couple of good relevant facts, too.
So let's see if we can get the captain back.
Maybe not.
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Well, you seem to have sort of a Nixon-esque amnesia right now, and I'm wondering if you would also respond to a couple of other issues of why the government was so paranoid about what you were up to.
There was a publication put up by the Yippies through the late 60s through 1980 called Yipple and Tap.
Yeah.
And it publicized on how to do not only all of these things of phone taps and blue boxes and all the other good stuff, but how to take over public utilities and break into payphones and how to just about do anything else to undermine structured society.
The gold box had planned so that anything that was attached to that phone line or if somebody's called into and you're talking to somebody, it would make every phone around there ring.
And it's happened where it makes the entire neighborhood light.
Will it be true, do you think, Captain, with PGP and the advances, all the advances, are the hackers always going to manage to keep up or either be a step of or one step behind those people trying to keep people like you used to be, used to be, out?
There's always going to be one group going to go out and figure something else out and then they're going to come back and counter it with something else.
Well, one of the reasons I asked you whether you kept up with telephone company technology was because you're now jobless.
I mean, if the phone company still, to this day, would come to you and offer you some kind of work, because it's still going on, would you be receptive?
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My first question, Captain, I was wondering if you had any sort of relationship, whether it was positive or negative, with Nitnick or Roxburgh during the break in a Cosmos back in the early 80s.
Because I've just been reading a whole bunch of books on a lot of the hackers back in the early 80s and stuff, and it seems like there was a tight-knit group of people back then, but for some reason or another, there was a lot of backstabbing, Oscar, and you had a...
Well, okay.
From what I understand, I believe this happened in 83, 84.
I mean I have mentioned to most people that write about you know I say that you know they don't work like they used to work and but at the same time I don't go out there and advocate its use.
unidentified
I try to be really careful when you're talking about.
Oh, I don't exactly know for word for word what he said, but I did I do hear in Channel 4 mention the mention of some of his services that he performs.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Captain Crunch.
unidentified
Hi.
Hello.
Hello.
This is Dr. Don from Oregon.
Yes, sir.
And my question is, I listened earlier when, Captain Crunch, you were talking about the technology that's been here for quite some time to tap phone lines instantly, like six years, you said, or something.
And my question is, well, I just saw something on the news the other night on CNN where President Clinton was dating this new supercomputer that I was commissioned to build.
And they said that it's amazing speed.
Now, don't quote me because I can't remember exactly what he said, but he said the calculation time in one second would be equivalent to someone with a hand calculator to do the same task would take like over 30,000 years.
Yeah, I heard this, that they were about to come out with a computer 100,000 times faster or something.
unidentified
Most of them go online in 97 or 98.
Yeah.
Well, okay, well, this is something I was talking to my dad last night, and he listens to you hard a lot.
And, you know, just it popped in my head, I thought, well, whoa, what are we going to use that for?
And what is its capabilities?
There were saying that it would model weather and predict hurricanes and stuff.
But, you know, my question for Captain Crunch is, are you aware of technology that not only would tap a call, but could it not be possible to log in every phone call and record it?
Crunch it, store it.
Well, associate it with your phone number and then go back a year later and say, okay, I want to listen to all the things that we're going to do.
I suppose it would, but we are getting to the age where a lot of mass storage, truly gigantic amounts of storage, I mean, even in the private home computer market, it's getting pretty incredible.
Listen, Captain, I actually would like to ask you about this myself.
We are really in a terrible age.
Bombings here, bombings, there, airplanes, this ladder, the whole business.
It's, you know, the militia groups and all the rest of it.
And the government is now, obviously, with its new terrorism bill, the press is on again, and the president wants this and that.
How do you feel about that?
Is it going to be a horrible intrusion on our privacy, or is this awful stuff going on, in your opinion, does it justify what they're getting ready to do?
And are they, you know, I mean, is any self-respecting terrorist going to go out there and use the telephone to brag about something that he's going to blow up?
I don't know what they call them, blue, red, or purple, but a friend of mine told me there's actually boxes out that can turn the phones into a home into microphones without having to bug the home.
In other words, somebody would have to, in effect, almost break into your apartment and replace the handset with another handset that would maybe have a live microphone in it.
That's comforting because nobody wants to think that somebody on the other end is just listening to a phone that is hung up.
That's awful.
All right, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Captain Crunch.
My guess is that plenty of offices are listening to us right this moment.
I'm sure the people John John, Captain, do you think that people in the phone company, this is really a hard question, but those with idle time on their hands, do you think that, for example, this program right now, they know we're connected on the line, right?
Do you think that they occasionally listen to this or that?
Um, my guest is Captain Crunch, uh, John Draper, a legend circling in his own time.
I'm Marcelle.
This is C-B-C.
unidentified
Call me right back.
Don't touch that dial.
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They may sound friendly, but many telemarketers are not your friends.
A new law from the Federal Trade Commission regulates telemarketing calls.
Telemarketers may call only between 8 a.m. and 9 p.m.
They must tell you that they're selling something and who's doing the selling.
If it's a sweet cakes or prize promotion, they must tell you the odds of winning and that you don't have to buy anything or make a payment to win.
And they're not allowed to call you back if you ask them not to.
I'm sorry, I never buy anything on the phone unless I know the company.
And I don't know you.
Goodbye now.
Hello, John.
Sorry.
FolksInDangerousSituation00:15:39
unidentified
I'm so glad there's that new law about telemarketing calls.
The FTC reminds consumers that anyone with a phone can be a victim of a scamming telemarketer.
If you have doubts about an offer, don't give your credit card or bank account number until you check it out and get it in writing.
A message from the FTC.
USA Radio Network News, this is Ron Jenkins.
The question in Quito, Ecuador, this hour?
Who's in charge here, anyway?
President of the country was impeached.
Several people seem to think they're in control now.
Here's USA's Ken McCartney in Quito.
Three people are claiming to be president of the country.
Althama Bucharam was removed from office Thursday night by the Congress, which elected this leader Fabian Arcone as president.
Later, Vice President Rosalia Artiega signed a decree proclaiming herself as president.
And Bukaram is holed up in the presidential palace, refusing to recognize the congressional action.
Thousands took to the streets to celebrate the impeachment vote following two days of a general strike which brought the country to a standstill.
Ken McCart, USA Radio News, Cato Ecuador.
President Clinton unveiled his federal spending budget for fiscal 1998 Wednesday.
It's a $1.69 trillion package he says will achieve balance by the year 2002.
GOP budget experts says there are acceptable aspects in the budget.
White House spokesman Mike McCurry comments.
So we expected that there would be criticism.
But the important thing for the President is that there's been no dismissal of Shares' budget proposal as it actually made that on arrival.
Bonnie Long will have more on the budget later in this cast.
Vice President Al Dore, several high U.S. officials will hold a second day of meetings with Russian Prime Minister Viktor Shenomirden in Washington today.
This is USA Radio News.
We have a dangerous situation going on in our nation's energy markets as winter sweeps across America, leaving its deadly path to destruction.
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Officials in Tulsa, Oklahoma have arrested a 15-year-old boy, charging him with carrying out three attacks at an abortion clinic in the city.
Reproductive Services Clinic was attacked with firebombs twice in January, and somebody broke into the place this past Sunday and shot up medical equipment inside.
U.S. Attorney Steve Lewis said they haven't decided yet whether to try the boy as an adult.
A complaint has been filed against the three offenses of damaging a subject building by use of an explosive device, use of a firearm connection with a violent crime, and presenting a firearm by jeans.
Federal Aviation Administration officials say there was a close call in the skies above New Jersey Wednesday.
They say a New York-bound Pan Am flight operated by Nation's Air nearly collided with two Air Force F-16s about 70 miles east of Atlantic City.
Officials say the Boeing 727 was forced to dive inclined suddenly to avoid a mid-air crash.
All three planes landed safely without injuries.
This is USA Radio News.
If you're overweight, the Catabolic Diet is the most effective, unbelievable program ever created based on over 100 foods that remove calories from your body.
Did you know that every food that enters your body requires various body organs such as liver, spleen, stomach, digestive juices to complete digestion?
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To finally lose those unwanted towns, call 1-800-557-3588.
unidentified
USA's Connie Long joins us now with a complete rap on President Clinton's budget proposals for the next fiscal year.
It is a far cry from last year when budget differences were so great the government was shut down.
Now President Clinton vows he can compromise with the Republicans on key budget issues.
There are still differences between the parties about how we should do this, but I am convinced those differences can be bridged.
Republicans say they may propose their own budget, one with deeper cuts, lower taxes, and a constitutional amendment mandating a balanced budget.
Tommy Lawn, USA Radio News, the White House.
Former President Ronald Reagan spent his 86th birthday, much like any other Wednesday, at the office.
The gipper was serenaded by a children's choir and received a gift of cookies from the Girl Scouts.
He also had a quiet celebration later with his family at home.
Ron Jenkins on the USA Radio Network.
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This is an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
You're listening to Art's July 29th interview with telephone hacker Captain Crunch.
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Micro Tech, they are developing SMR, specialized mobile radio.
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There is some risk, and that's why it's called an investment.
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I was just wondering, you know, when he first started talking about the blue box that began in 1972, did it, no, a lot of people were talking about the red box.
It does, you know, and it's all on overseas, you know, a bunch of overseas calls.
And also, we get, I don't know how they do it.
This is kind of really strange to me, but they access somehow into hotels or main storage operators, and then they go, and they get a free line, and then we can play calls for them anywhere, and we think that we're billing it to them, but we have no way of knowing really where they're calling from.
Well um I was doing that and we heard rumor that he was actually moved a satellite and we tried to duplicate that and we were never able to do it and we didn't know if it was true or not.
So I had somebody else call back the number and social engineer tell this party that that we called that we were the White Planes Tandem Switching Office and we were having some translation problems into that number.
Hey, I'd be interested in knowing if the captain can help us understand what these services like America Online and CompuServe can read back off of your computer, for example.
Can they read any information off your hard drive?
In fact, I've been getting a lot of email on that last couple days.
I'm not exactly sure how all this stuff works.
I haven't really investigated it myself, but I know that other people have claimed, well, this cookie thing is this thing where, I don't know exactly the details, but when you have a website and somebody accesses your website, you have your website usually is your files on your website are stored on a server.
unidentified
And when the server, when you make a connection with the server, you run this program called the CGI program.
Coming up this week, Robert G. Keats, author of West Virginia UFOs.
You ever wonder what's going on in the mountain states East?
We'll find out Close Encounters in the Mountain State, coming up this week right here on Dreamland.
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Hi, this is Edward James Olmos, and as an actor, I've had many important roles, but none as important as the role the Shriners play in the lives of young children.
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Now, the browser, like Netscape or Microsoft's version of it, has code that certainly knows how to go out there and read a hard disk and get directory on the hard disk.
Well, I'm a frequent, I search the net a lot and check out Argon's website.
And I was going to ask you about PTP encryption.
Yeah, go ahead.
You're familiar with the U.S., have they made regulations that have made encryption more or less unsafe than you should use the international version of PDP?
And a lot of companies that get licenses to export cryptography software for handling credit card transactions and things like that actually have to become a weapons dealer legally in order for them to be able to have the ability to or the permission to sell this kind of technology overseas.
Now, PTP was originally written and developed overseas.
unidentified
And in that case, a lot of the tight encryption now these are earlier versions of PTP, 2.3 I think is one of them, or 2.1 or 2.2.
Yeah, the earlier versions of PTP I would trust more because I would tend to believe they would probably be using the IDEA cipher method which was developed in Europe.
What you're really saying, when you read between these lines, you're saying that the later versions of TGP, in your opinion, might have been designed to seem safe.
The television show was produced by Anthony Moore to basically try and give a fair shake to the hacker hysteria that's been covering the press the past couple of years.
Right.
And he basically wanted to talk to a bunch of people that are on the inside track of the underground, people that have been around a while and some things, to see if that perception by the public is actually reality or if it's a bad deal, a bad shake.
want to know exactly what the underground was like, and you viewed a little over half of the other people in the San Francisco Bay Area, you being one of them, and tried to spell some of the myths by showing them the reality of hacking.
Okay, well...
We aren't all bad people that we don't have out there, but read people's email, destroy people's files, steal proprietary information, and...
Seven, tell me, describe the difference between a good hacker and a bad hacker.
The bad hacker obviously destroys email, blah, blah, blah.
What is a good hacker?
unidentified
A good hacker is someone who understands the technology they have before them, the foundation of the Internet, the different tools that are available to them, the programming languages, has a fair understanding of it, has the ability to explore the limits of the technology.
In other words, not doing what they're told to do, but for the boundary of maybe finding some new uses for the Internet.
Actually being a productive member of the Internet community and designing new uses for the Internet and let the legends stay where it is now and hoping that someone else comes along and develop something.
For example, then it has created the World Wide Web.
That was created by hackers because of their exploration and knowledge of the Internet.
We were able to put two and two together and go over the new use for it.
In the same way that I'm a ham operator, and ham operators, early in electronics, developed a lot of things that contributed to national security and the advancement of electronics generally.
Yes.
So the amateurs dump it in the laps of the pros.
unidentified
Amateurs dump it in the laps of the pros.
Some of them will have different motivations.
It all comes down to the intended individual hacker.
Yeah, but we do have a lot of these little bastards running around, as he said, thinking that it's cool to blow things up and kill people.
And, you know, this is going to bring everybody on the net and everybody, I'm sure, in circles you run in, Captain, is scared to death of the government coming in and slamming down the big hammer of oppression.
But, you know, if things continue the way they are...
And so I guess to me, the difference between a good hacker and a bad hacker is a good hacker who heard of somebody who was planning to do something really awful like that, they'd turn them in.
I had a couple questions, but the first one was something that I had heard, and I'm just wondering if you guys had heard anything about it.
You were talking about the supercomputer the government might have or is developing.
The tap lines, and I had heard that they are preparing some kind of a computer that will or maybe it's even in existence now that will key in on certain words over all the phones, all the almost all the phones in the well, I don't know, maybe in the country, and that they'll begin to tape at certain words.
So he says i'm disconnected from the power company and what I do is up to me and he's he's right, but i'm sure he's gonna, he's gonna step through it, huh.
It's independent of the captain very appropriate, or the captain sir, and and see uh, what is i'm on?
Uh Oahu sir, i'm in okay.
Uh, very briefly, I work at a?
Uh small hotel here and we had a?
Uh three weeks ago I had a meeting with the general manager and uh he, He was ranting in Rady.
It's a small hotel, so there's only one person that staffs the front desk and does everything.
Answers phone, checks people in, check out, compares, right?
You get real busy.
So the gentleman is walking around and he's waving this phone bill in his hand.
And he's just pissed.
I mean, he's really mad.
And so what he says is that there's a scam going on, and people are calling in and getting to a room in the hotel and getting talking to the person in the room to taking the phone off the hook and leaving it off the hook.
And he says what happens is at that point they can then call around the world and he shows us the phone bill and it was three separate calls on the same day to Vietnam totaling $870.
Yeah, I got a call from the person who runs my webpage earlier, and he said there's a widespread problem going on right now, and it may still be going on.
Tune in Friday night, Saturday morning, when Chancellor Broadcasting Company presents The Best of Art Bell, featuring Art's most recent interview with Major Ed Daines on remote viewing.
That's tomorrow night on the best of Coast to Coast AM of ArtFound.
Hi, this is Kevin from the Box for R.A.B., recording artist against drunk driving.
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I want you to listen carefully because you may be paying hundreds or even thousands of dollars too much for your life insurance.
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Abdullah Bukharam was impeached by the country's Congress late last evening by a vote of 44 to 34.
USA's Ken McCogg in Quito, the capital city, said the mood in the streets is a festive one.
The people are celebrating to see Bukharam go, and the military has been called out.
The military has told the warring parties within the government that it will not intervene, but it has asked them to settle the dispute as soon as possible, and it has offered its services to mediate in the dispute.
The big question, who's in charge, the Congress named Fabian Abacon, the president of the Congress, as interim president until elections can be held.
Later, however, Vice President Rosalia Otiega signed a decree proclaiming herself as the president, and Bukharam is holed up in the presidential palace, refusing to recognize the impeachment as legal.
He claims he's still in charge.
President Clinton presenting his budget proposal for the fiscal year 1998 to the Congress, a move which prompted unusual responses from the Republican majority, including that the proposal is not dead on arrival.
In turn, White House spokesman Mike McCurry said the best thing to do would be to take the president's budget proposal, work on it, work on it together in a bipartisan fashion, balance the budget, and then move to those more difficult long-term issues that surely we should address.
Clinton claims his budget proposal will result in a balanced budget by the year 2002.
This is USA Radio News.
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The Food and Drug Administration has finally bowed to congressional pressure it will soon allow parents to get drug testing kits without a doctor's prescription for devices they can use to test drug use by their children.
William Schultz, FDA Deputy Commissioner for Policy, says his agency's proposal comes with an easy-to-meet requirement.
The product must use a lab test that has been approved by the FDA or is otherwise recognized by the agency as reliable.
It's critical that the test be accurate in order that parents and others get the right answer.
According to a study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, children in the United States compared to youngsters in other industrialized countries are much more likely to die violently.
The CDC says its study of 26 countries found that the U.S. has the highest rates of childhood homicide, suicide, and firearms-related deaths.
This is USA Radio News.
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Questions About Deductions00:05:15
unidentified
Top Russian and U.S. officials insist there will be a summit at the end of March between President Clinton and Russian President Boris Yeltsin.
Despite the ill health of Russian President Boris Yeltsin, the White House insists there will be an American-Russian summit at the end of March.
The announcement was made by the visiting Prime Minister of Russia, Viktor Chernimyrdin.
The Russian official is in Washington for two days of meeting for the Vice President Al Gore.
American officials say it is important to indicate that Yeltsin is strong enough to govern.
If not, the Russian government could fall to others who oppose democratic reform.
County Long USA Radio News, Washington.
The Senate has confirmed the President's second-term choice for heading the Transportation Department.
The chamber to yesterday voting 98-0 to approve Rodley Slater to replace Federico Pena, who has been nominated to become the nation's new energy chief.
Ron Jenkins on the USA Radio Network.
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That that's why we're here just all five hours of tonight's interview with hacker captain Crunch, all without commercial interruptions.
Dial 1-800-917-4278 and ask for tape number 970206C.
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I've got a fact here from, it says, good morning, Art.
I work as a telephone operator doing the graveyard shift at the grand hotel in San Francisco.
I'm not going to give the name.
I can always tell, she says, when a PBX hacker is calling in to access a hotel line, most common way is.
They pose as a PACBEL or AT ⁇ T employee and they say they're having a problem calling his or her office and will call our hotel and ask to be connected to an operator with a telephone company.
And it turns out that a lot of hackers would go to a hotel somewhere and do 10XXX and then dial out on the hotel phone and it wouldn't know how to handle it, so he'd just put the call through.
One, a few years back they had a crack on the master logs and master lock I mean it's a common thing everybody has one you know the combination one yeah yeah they rebuilt they had to rebuild all their master logs because somebody figured out how to crack that I learned how to how to manipulate those locks in jail
yeah I also I also was wondering about the DSS satellite chips that they're hacking with now so what's the DSS video no I don't I don't want to get into that that'll get us in trouble I I know about that but I don't want to talk about it it's um it's satellite service and the various encryption modes no no call us toll free at 1-800-618-8255.
Well, here's something I'd like to say about that.
unidentified
And all those manufacturers of ISDN equipment out there or any other kind of network connection out there, we've got to come up with a standard connection and it's got to have to be everywhere in order for it to really work right.
So you've got to keep buying all this different peripheral crap that they sell.
I'm convinced of it.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Captain Crunch.
Hello.
Hey, good morning.
unidentified
My name is Jerry, and I'm in Colorado here.
And I had a couple of weird questions.
There was a point in time when there used to be a bunch of rumors going around that you could transmit, like, colds and viruses and stuff to other people by talking on the phone.
Now, I follow a rumor.
Oh, I know it's not true.
Right.
But my curiosity is, how do rumors like that get national?
You know, I went to the gas station the other day and uh from the time it took me to pay for my gas to get to the register the register went down.
Well actually it's not a register, it's a computer screen and the lady said she couldn't take my money because she couldn't punch the her finger on the computer screen there to I hear you.
I mean uh well that's why I went to the rainbow gathering.
Well you know if the power grid shuts down and nobody can operate their computer equipment or wherever, are they going to look like my 12-year-old when I take his Nintendo away for a week kind of dazed and it's going to be a hell of a lot worse than that.
If there ever was a nuclear detonation of sufficient size above our country, two or three of them, the EMP would wipe out just about every computer system within computers.
Anything transitional would all go down and stay down.
And people have no idea that the precarious edge we are perched on with technology.
As far as the hacker community is concerned, encryption does not exist because the encryption methods that are in the United States today have been hacked.
Well, in all probability, yeah, we talked about that, really.
In other words, the newer encryption methods, for all we know, there are little doors specifically that were designed with the help of intelligent people, that kind of thing, right?
unidentified
Well, actually, when Phil Zerman released PGP, he released it in source code.
It's meant that anybody could go into PGP and verify that it was written correctly and not have any back doors.
The later versions of PCP, the commercial versions of PTP, I would tend to not trust this much because usually commercial versions of software do not provide you with source code.
Friday night, Saturday morning, when Chancellor Broadcasting Company presents The Best of Art Bell, featuring Art's most recent interview with Major Ed Daines on remote viewing.
That's tomorrow night on the best of Coast to Coast A&M with Ardwell.
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Results-Driven Investing00:15:53
unidentified
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When the Soviets beat the U.S. basketball team in the 72 Olympics, America was outraged.
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Well, I volunteer at the school, you know, and I'd see her sometimes with a rough crowd, but she easy to fit in.
Most people are afraid of me.
They don't even talk to me.
It's not right, a kid like that, hanging around with nothing to do.
She just walks right up to me and said, I like your work.
Nobody's ever said that to me before.
I want to see you paint something, I told her.
And that's all it took.
She got me to do it.
I liked it, because she makes me look at things different.
The number is 1-800, and they'll be delivered just at Valentine's.
Okay, how about that?
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unidentified
Now you don't even need a computer to get the information and pictures that you've been missing.
And I used to whistle the 2600 cycle tone and I used to listen to the other tone and then go home and build oscillators that would duplicate them.
And unfortunately, or fortunately, whichever way you want to look at it, I never got tied up with a group of people that knew what they were doing with all this stuff.
And I accidentally got into a few places and made a couple of phone calls and also had worked a little bit with the boxes that would trip the ringer before the billing cycle knew that that happened, you know, that kind of thing.
But the main question that I had today is do you know enough to talk a little bit about how they work the billing cycles these days and the time increments that they bill you for in phone companies?
Pac-Bell also, I believe, charges a smaller surcharge fee, but they're also charged by the minute.
Do you pay for the first minute whether you use it or not?
Now that's a very good tactic on the part of the phone companies because they're going to make a lot of money doing that because a lot of times calls are very short.
Sometimes they're most of the calls I make, for instance, are always less than 30 seconds.
I go up on my voicemail, check to see if I have any messages.
Well now, there is one good thing though about the phone companies breaking up.
In other words, there is all this advertising now and they're all trashing each other saying so-and-so bills you for a minute whether you use it or not.
And I basically want to give you a quick analogy and then I'll ask you a question.
And this can okay, I'm basically a chess player, and sometimes I'll look over the board and analyze a game I played, and I look at the position, and a lot of times I discover that there were opportunities for my opponent that I didn't realize neither today.
Computers Are Complicated00:12:21
unidentified
That's how I ended up winning the game.
So my basic point is that everything has its weaknesses, and whatever man creates can be deciphered.
So my question is, when are we going to learn this?
There are many, many, many ways of writing a program.
And a program can be written one way and can be written a totally different way and have a totally different and have yet the same behavior, but maybe inside have it be totally different.
I'm curious, Captain, if hackers can use the phone company's billing system to bill things onto my phone and even change the numbers where the call originated, where it went to.
Yeah, but what about this new form of that's really insidious of people out there with scanners and decoders grabbing people's cellular phone numbers and going crazy without them?
My neighbor told me that he had heard that you can actually view someone sitting there watching TV if your TV set is on, that that technology is possible.
Well, when you make a correct call now on some phones, especially some of the phones that are in the prisons that only allow you to make correct calls, it's possible to fool those machines and to get them to accept your call.
Yeah, because when you it will come on with a recorded announcement saying we have a correct call from and then the name of the person gets announced because it records the name of the person.
Right.
Do you accept the call?
Okay, and the person at the other end can sometimes persuade the machine at this end, you know, the called end, to say yes.