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Jan. 8, 1997 - Art Bell
02:47:49
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Joyce Riley - Gulf War Syndrome
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Welcome to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from January 8th, 1997.
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, as the case may be across this great land and beyond, really.
From the Hawaiian and Tahitian island chains, eastward to the U.S.
Virgin Islands and the Caribbean, south into South America, north all the way to the pole, This is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Art Bell.
Great to be here, and again, this morning, we're gonna take a look, along with a couple of other things, at what's going on with Adult War Syndrome.
One day, there's justification for all the complaints.
The next day, the government says it's all in their head.
Stress.
So, Joyce Riley is back with new information.
She'll tell you all about it.
All of that coming up.
I want to remind you that Friday night, Dr. Barry Tapp, the principal investigator on the case that became The Entity, is going to be here.
He does a very powerful presentation on that and other cases, and we've got photographs from that case, the real one, on the website.
I suggest you take a look between now and then.
That would be, of course, www.artbell.com.
www.artbell.com.
So in a moment, Joyce Riley.
Now we take you back to the night of January 8th, 1997 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Oh, All right.
From Houston, Texas, here comes Joyce Riley.
Joyce Riley treated Gulf War veterans.
She disagrees mightily with the federal government, which just Tuesday said there is no such specific cause of whatever it is that is being called the Gulf War illness, but stress Was a major factor, they think.
Stress.
Stress that then came home and infected family members.
At any rate, from Houston, here is Joyce Riley, a nurse, a captain, and now in civilian life and probably in a lot of trouble.
How you doing, Joyce?
I'm doing fine, thank you, sir.
Before we get off into the Gulf War illness, which is going to be the focus, I want to ask you about something else.
You were a nurse.
You are a nurse, I guess.
Correct.
Big brouhaha in the Supreme Court, and we talked about it some yesterday, regarding doctor-assisted suicide.
And from a nurse's point of view, how do you feel about that?
Oh my!
You know, it's interesting because I was thinking very strongly about that tonight.
There was a point in my life when I was sick with the Gulf War illness that the pain was so intense that I literally put a gun to my head and I said, Dear God, if it happens again, I can't take it.
And I remember thinking that to myself that that was my only relief was knowing that I could get out of the pain.
I have very mixed feelings about this because I believe that I believe in the commandment that says thou shalt not kill.
So I believe that I could not personally do it.
I believe that every person has to make that decision themselves, but putting that on another person is where I have a problem with it.
It is so complex.
I understand because I've taken care of terminally ill people for so long that wanted to die and that needed to die.
Could I bring myself to do it?
I don't think so.
But we know what's going on right now.
We know there are people that are having their lives terminated.
And there are physicians that are doing it in a so-called empathetic way.
Just a very quiet way.
In other words, a little too much morphine or whatever.
Sure.
And there are nurses that are doing it also.
It's happening all over the country.
It is a very personal decision.
It's one that I personally, I think I would want to know that I could have my life ended.
I have to believe that it is wrong for me now, and I've been almost at that point.
So I have to say, at this time in my life, I don't believe in it.
I could not personally do it myself.
Okay, but separating... You see, I agree with you.
I have come to believe suicide is wrong.
That it is wrong to end your life, and that you are meant to live out whatever you're going to live out, including the end.
But that's my personal view.
Now, I also have the view that, um, my life is not the business of the state of Nevada, where I live, nor sure as hell isn't the business of Washington, D.C.
And so I have mixed feelings, too, and I'm not sure that, uh, what you contemplated was a Smith and Wesson-assisted suicide.
Uh, not doctor assisted.
You know, where you could take a pill or whatever it is.
So, it seems to me that the government has no business telling us what to do.
Um, and uh, there's a lot of messy ways to do it.
You named one of them.
And then there are easier ways.
Doctors know easier ways.
Nurses know easier ways.
There are things you can take, I guess, and just go to sleep.
Well, certainly there are, and I agree with you that it is not the state's responsibility to decide that.
I believe very strongly in that.
I do think, though, that having been so close to the edge and realized at one point what real pain is like, and I have even known of people that are in so much pain that have made an agreement with someone else that if I tell you I'm at that point, please come and eliminate me from my pain.
And you know, we have to recognize that there is pain that's severe.
Now, I have to say that personally, when I got to that point, you know, my prayer was, Dear God, don't let this happen.
I don't want to do it.
I don't believe in it.
And for whatever reason, that was answered.
So I believe that was my answer.
And I can't say I can ever participate in that or promote it.
But I can't make that decision for anyone else.
Right.
Right.
My exact feelings.
Alright, the government Tuesday said stress.
Gulf War vets have stress.
What do you say?
I say that it is time that we recognize the fact that this is a facade that we're involved in right now.
That we recognize that this is an intentional denial of treatment for our military.
That at this point I believe Only the most significant reconstruction of what is in Washington right now should take place.
And I mean that very seriously.
Because we have people's lives that are in the balance.
They said they're going to continue this for another nine months.
We've got men and women that can't wait nine months.
Joyce, I'm very confused.
One day we hear it is stress, but three or four days ago, I heard that that disease that you've talked about, and what is the name again, please?
Mycoplasma incognita.
Thank you very much, has been recognized, and in fact is going to be treated.
Another official pronouncement.
So, damn it all, which is it?
Is there something real?
Or is it stress in their mind?
And why are we hearing one thing one day and something else the next?
And as a matter of fact, you'll like this, Joyce, or maybe you won't.
Not only Tuesday did they say that, but there is a counter-study saying the mysterious Gulf War Syndrome may have been caused by exposure to low-level chemical war gas, pesticides, and other agents.
The study of the Navy CB Combat Construction Units apparently shows they came home and they were sicker than others.
So, within one paragraph, I've got two different views.
What is it?
Well, that is what is called disinformation by the government.
That is the way in military operations that one discredits information.
Is that you come out with a story and then you purposely deny that story.
And I think what we're seeing is incredible evidence of military and government propaganda.
What we're seeing here is an intentional denial of the fact that these individuals are sick.
I want to read just one statement here from Senator Regal's hearing in 1993, because this is so incredible.
The hearing was held May of 1994, I'm sorry, and I cannot tell you how surprised I was this evening when I went over this.
Over the last eight months, our office has been contacted by over a thousand Gulf War veterans directly.
In addition to veterans from the United States, we've also been contacted by sick veterans of Canada, British, and Australian armed forces who serve in the Persian Gulf.
They suffer the same disabling syndrome.
Now, this is Senator Regal speaking to the committee hearing.
This is not a mental problem with the veterans.
It may be a mental problem over at the Defense Department, but it's not a mental problem with the veterans.
He also went on to say, the spouses and the children are sick.
We believe that there needs to be an epidemiological study done because this disease is being transferred to their families.
This is May 25th of 1994.
He goes on to say, I do not want any half-truths in this conference.
I do not want anyone lying.
He said, we will hold you to the highest standard.
At that time, the Assistant Secretary of Defense, Mr. Dorn, continues to get up or begins testifying and lies, literally lies, about all the information that has come out now and stating that it wasn't true then.
And this was 1994.
This has been going on so long.
In fact, let me tell you a little bit about what all these so-called studies mean, I think.
First of all, you had the Presidential Advisory Commission meeting saying, we can't really arrive at any conclusion, so we need some more time, more money.
Well, nobody was really shocked by this.
And the issue of stress.
That is hogwash, absolute hogwash.
I talked to a Green Beret today, a major in the Green Beret, This man is incredibly confident.
He called me and he said, I've done two tours in Vietnam, served in the Gulf War, and he said, if they think I have a mental problem, the fact that I've got a rash and swollen lymph glands, then they've got another thing to think about.
You know, we are putting our military on the edge.
This is the problem right now, is that these men and women are physically sick.
Their spouses are sick.
You didn't hear one mention about a communicable disease in anything that you heard today.
Not one.
They don't want you to hear that, because that's the most serious problem that we face right now.
Then the Southwestern Medical School comes out with their so-called chicken study that Perot financed with the pyrethrin-D and the pyridostigmine bromide.
And they're all excited about their effects of their studies showing that there were low-level doses of organophosphates.
Now, think about this.
You never hear about high-level doses of organophosphates.
When they set off 7,500 tons of sarin gas at Camasea, there had to have at least been one incident of high-level sarin gas.
But you never hear about that.
It's always low-level.
Now, they're excited about their study, and I'm pleased.
They said, yes, there are some effects.
Yes, we are seeing some problems.
Yes, there are neurological problems.
That's good.
But that still doesn't explain how somebody's son is getting the disease back in the United States.
It does not, but I do want to ask you about something.
There have been some incredible studies, Joyce, and I bet you know about them, in which people with various problems, medical problems, symptoms, are given placebos.
And a remarkable percentage of them either claim to feel better or claim to be cured.
They take a pill.
A placebo.
Nothing.
It does absolutely nothing, medically.
And yet they are cured, which has to suggest some of it is psychological.
And with all the publicity about the Gulf War disease, some of it would be psychological.
Well, that may very well be.
I've not talked to those individuals because the people I am talking to don't want to be sick.
They have gone from $40,000 a year jobs down to where if they are sick and if they are able to get compensation, they may qualify for $200 a week.
Now, you and I both know that's not smart to think that somebody is going to sacrifice everything they've got Just to get $800 a month when they could be working and getting $40,000.
Nobody wants to be sick.
I agree with that, certainly.
I'm simply wondering, and I'm sure that you've wondered too, and as you talk to various vets, they will come up with symptoms, you know, chronic fatigue, that sort of thing.
It's not always got a solid medical basis, does it?
There's some percentage.
How do you separate, Joyce?
Well, when you see a rash over their entire body with welts, with open sores, it's real hard to say this person's bought himself into this situation.
Yes.
You know, we're talking about, and let's be honest, I'm talking about a confidential not-for-release study from the Veterans Administration that shows there's been a 600% increase in the tumor rates in the active duty military from 91 to 94.
Now, those people didn't think up those brain tumors.
We're talking about brain cancer now that is found at such a high percentage in the military population.
In fact, the figures show that about 4 to 6 per 100,000 would be the norm.
4 to 6 cases per 100,000 of brain cancer.
would be the norm, 4 to 6 cases per 100,000 of brain cancer.
In the active duty military, men from ages 24 to 30, we're finding 30 to 40 cases of
brain cancer.
Now, we're talking about real problems, but you see, this information, which was presented
to the Congress, you didn't hear about in that survey.
You're not hearing the information.
This is nothing but an absolute whitewash.
Well, that's very solid statistical medical information.
Why is it not being dealt with?
I can't answer that, because it went to Congress.
I've talked to some of the people that have testified regarding the effects of low-level Organophosphates or organophosphate poisoning.
Their information wasn't included in the report either.
I can't answer that question.
Alright, what about... Here's another area that you can document.
Birth defects of Gulf vets and their families having children versus the regular population.
Well, Nation Magazine printed a statistic Stating that 67% of the affected Gulf War veterans, being the sick Gulf War veterans, are now reporting a birth defect or deformity in their children.
Now, 67% is way off the scale.
That's not even debatable as to whether that would be a possibility or plausible.
What would the percentage figure be in the general population?
Oh, I couldn't answer, but it would certainly be under 10%.
Alright.
So, we're talking about something that is horrendously high.
Now, this didn't make it into the survey either.
You didn't hear anybody talking about birth defects.
Now, the pyrethrin and the DEET and the pretostigmine bromide, that may be a problem, and I don't doubt it.
But you see, what we have now are conflicting studies, which is exactly what the Pentagon wants.
This is part of their whole entire plan in the presentation of this, because you have Southwestern medical schools saying, yes, we've got this problem.
We found out low-level organophosphate poisoning.
Then you have the University of Iowa coming forth with their study, which was in conjunction with the CDC, which I knew about at the time because the Gulf War veterans brought me their questionnaires, and I could see immediately what was going on there, and they find no problem.
So now we have all these conflicting studies, and meanwhile, who's suffering?
The veterans.
I must tell you that my phone rang off the hook last night from disgusted, disgruntled, absolutely disillusioned veterans who said, I was willing to die for this country.
And they wanted me to make life and death decisions over there.
And when I come back here and tell them my lymph nodes are swollen and I have this horrible pain in my back or my whatever, they don't believe me on that.
Why would they ask me to do things that required levels of national security?
But they won't even believe me when I tell them I can't walk.
And they give them some weak excuse.
This is what I've actually heard.
Is that this one young man was told, we did a psych eval on you and we found out you're really a latent homosexual.
And if you would just admit it, you could walk.
Well, the wife of that man went for the doctor's jugular.
She was so mad and she said, how dare do you say that to my husband who was willing to die for this country?
Now, this is where we get into the kind of most demoralizing treatment that we could ever give our military.
I've heard from SEAL teams, Navy SEAL teams.
And we're talking about some guys that are upset.
First of all, they weren't told the risks and where they were going.
Secondly, they weren't told afterwards what they'd been exposed to.
Thirdly, they bring them back here, tell them their problem is really they need Prozac, and you've got some of the finest of the finest here who are being labeled mental cases.
How we can do this in this country, and how they can get away with it, is the real problem.
Let me tell you, alright, Joyce, We're going to pause here at the bottom of the hour and we'll be right back.
I was a medic in the Air Force.
I worked with Air Force doctors.
They're a weird bunch.
But it brings up a pretty good question.
In other words, I can understand the possibility of cover-up at the top.
And I mean the top of the military, the top of our political system.
All of that might make sense.
Not hard to believe in.
But military doctors?
How could they be part of it?
And wouldn't they have to be?
we'll be right back you're listening to our bill somewhere in time tonight
featuring a replay of poster coast am from January 8th 1997 so
so so
so premier radio networks presents art bell somewhere in time
Tonight's program originally aired January 8th, 1997.
All right, Joyce Riley is my guest and we have new information for you and we're going to get to that shortly
rather than just rehashing what we have already done, important as that may be.
8th 1997 on Art Bell, somewhere in...
more in time uh... choice
i was a medic in the air force i worked uh... in hospitals and i worked with air force doctors
And I can imagine the hierarchy of the military, which is kind of political, and the political hierarchy denying any kind of real problem.
But for those who are active duty and going to military doctors, captains, majors, or even colonels, I don't buy that they would not recognize and treat For example, swollen glands, those kind of obvious symptoms.
What about that?
Well, I at one time thought that the military in general was covering up from the physician's standpoint, the nurse's standpoint, until I talked to a lot of them.
When they called me, they told me they had no information.
They had literally been told there was no Gulf War illness, and there was essentially a gag order.
And I've had too many people tell me there is a gag order, essentially, not an official one, obviously.
But an unofficial military gag order on what can be said regarding the communicableness of this disease.
I have had this phone call from too many military physicians.
Even their spouses have called me because their physicians were afraid to call.
Many nurses have called me and told me the same thing, is that they believe so strongly for the first three or four years that there was no Gulf War illness, that they were all malingers, and that yeah, they've got some swollen glands, but gee, it's no big deal.
Well, it is a big deal when it's considered with regard to all the other symptoms.
But now I do believe that at this point in time, from what I'm hearing, is the physicians do know.
They know there's something wrong.
They will, under the table, tell the Gulf War veterans where to go to get doxycycline, but they're unfortunately not able to give it to them or not able to talk about it.
Well, yeah, but there's a lot of military doctors, Joyce.
They're about the most un-military group in the whole world.
Half of them refuse to even acknowledge rank, and in the hospital everybody goes on pretty much a first-name basis.
There's very little military protocol about a hospital.
And a lot of them would just soon tell the government to jam it as to be part of a cover-up.
At least some percentage of them, Joyce, should be speaking out.
Are they?
Some of them are.
Some of the VA doctors also are.
Now, here's where I think the real issue is more the VA doctors now than the military doctors.
I understand.
Because about 80% are now out.
Correct.
In fact, I think it's up around 600,000 out of the 700,000 are out now.
So what we need to look at are the VA doctors.
Now, I got a phone call from one of those today.
And Dr. Leisure said that I could use her name.
And she said that she cannot believe the incorrect information that came out in the studies today.
She is appalled by that.
She has gone on record to say that this is a communicable illness.
I received several letters from her on VA letterhead and in fact I just received one from her and she said that you may tell people that there is one doctor in Hershey, Pennsylvania who is attempting to get the word out but she has been threatened with firing.
Just as Dr. Baumschweiger was fired or told he can no longer treat Gulf War veterans at the Los Angeles VA.
So any physician so far that has talked about this within the military or within the VA system has been reprimanded.
We don't have any system of redress right now where they can be heard and that's the sad part.
So what you're hearing is really government study information, government information And those people that are coming out are being chastised.
Speaking of that, are you in trouble?
I don't know.
I really don't know right now.
I don't think that, obviously, I'm going to be allowed to continue to do this unscathed, because what I am saying is probably the most significant information in America today.
That the Pentagon has lied, the CIA has lied, and I feel Very bound to doing what is right by my patients or right by the people that I see that are ill and that's telling the truth.
So I don't know what is going to happen.
I really don't at this point.
Alright.
Do you have hints?
Are you being told they're going to come after you?
Yes.
Yes, I have.
I don't spend a lot of time on it because a lot of rumors fly and a lot of things are said.
But I do think that I have been one voice in the wilderness, and a lot of people don't even want to attack City Hall, and this is one person attacking the Pentagon.
But I cannot be quiet.
My patients, my people, mean so much to me.
When I see them, and I see their illnesses, and I spend time with them, my heart goes out to them.
And there's no way, Art, that I could ever turn aside from this and ever step back and withdraw.
I can't.
Their children are sick.
They are sick.
I see it all the time.
It's not a question of whether or not they're sick.
It's a question of whether they're going to live or not.
That's the real question at this point.
How many have died?
I wish I had a better figure.
We can't get good information from the Veterans Administration or from the STLI, the life insurance for the government.
We can't get good figures.
Dr. Nicholson and some of the VA doctors have told me that they still believe that at least 15,000 of our military have died.
I'm hearing stories all the time of 25, 26, 27 year old men that are dying.
There are a lot of them are dropping dead at age 22, 23 or were with heart attacks, which is very, very, very rare unless the one has used cocaine and in these cases they aren't using cocaine.
Because we're talking about the fittest of the fit.
They're dying of what's called the exploding heart syndrome.
Their hearts literally explode.
I got a call from Fort Sam telling me about one over there.
I mean, these are not normal kinds of deaths, especially in this kind of young men.
What would be the cause of that?
An exploding heart?
Well, as we have understood it, if the mycoplasma incognitus infects the heart muscle, It causes a type of cardiomyopathy or enlarged heart.
They call it idiopathic cardiomyopathy meaning we don't know what made it like that but it's enlarged and it destroys the heart muscle.
The way it's been explained to me by some autopsy reports is that literally the heart got so large it was the size of a chest cavity and it was just too large and that is the late term exploding heart syndrome and that's the way some of the nurses have even told me about it.
So, you know, these things that I'm telling you, I've got a list of 400 deaths from the VA that are suspicious deaths, and this list obviously was not supposed to circulate.
I mean, it's not a question of whether or not this is true.
I wish it wasn't.
I wish that I could get up tomorrow morning and all of this would be gone.
I could go back to my regular life, be a heart transplant nurse again, or a nurse consultant that I'm doing for medical legal cases now.
I wish I could go back to that, but as long as these people are suffering and there are
idiots on TV that get up and talk about the stress level.
You know, like I just got a letter from a lady and she said, you know, I just want to
These letters really tear me up.
She said, Please understand I love my country.
I encouraged my husband to go to the Persian Gulf, but a different man came home to me.
His temper was volatile.
He was in pain all the time.
He was such a proud man who had served in the top 1% of his physical training group.
He was career material.
Since the war, I have not won.
But we have had two deformed children born with no history in our family.
I'm so sick myself I can hardly go on.
My husband can no longer work.
He had a medical discharge because he had headaches and nausea all the time.
We've sold everything and now we're in bankruptcy.
Please don't think I'm asking for anything.
Please just give me the truth.
We are all so sick.
Please help us.
You know, this is the kind of letter art and the kind of people that I deal with.
Not one of them asks for compensation.
That's not the issue.
They want their health back.
They want their lives back.
One other little letter said, I returned from Desert Storm, May 1st, 1991.
This letter was written.
I did not know that the war would start again three years later.
This time, it is not with a foreign nation, but with my own government.
I do not want compensation.
I only want my health back.
Please help the Gulf War veterans.
That was a letter written to Senator Regal.
These are the kind of people we're talking about.
They were taught to deny pain.
Rangers, airborne, SEALs, they deny pain.
To them it's a weakness to have pain.
Alright, let me learn a little bit about microplasma incognitus.
What is it?
According to Dr. Nicholson, microplasma incognitus was identified by the Department of Defense.
Now, was it made there?
Was it Was it developed there?
Was it found there?
Was it... I don't know.
I don't know how it came about.
I can't speak to that issue, but that's where they first heard about mycoplasma incognitus.
Mycoplasma is a microorganism that goes freely throughout the population and will give you maybe a pneumonia or a urinary tract infection, but it can be treated.
But according to Dr. Nicholson, they have added 40% of the HIV envelope gene Deep into the nucleus of the mycoplasma.
Now the reason that he identified this mycoplasma at MD Anderson Cancer Center was because his daughter had served doing deep insertions into a rack in the 101st Airborne.
She came home, gave the disease to the family, and everyone got ill.
Because they were cell biology researchers, because that was their job, both Dr. Nicholson and his wife, who is a Dr. Nicholson, they went to the lab to find out what was causing it.
And they have told me, and we have discussed this many times, that there was such an alteration in the DNA sequences when they did the polymerase chain reaction and the gene tracking that they found a very bizarre finding.
Now, this does not mean that people get AIDS.
Alright, I've got to slow you down here.
Mike, let's go back to microplasma incognitus.
Is that something that was originally, in your view, engineered somewhere for biological war?
Did it show up naturally?
Forget the connection to the AIDS part of it for a second.
I've got to understand this first one.
I believe that it was experimented with by the Department of Defense.
I don't know if it was developed by the DOD.
I can't say that.
But I can say that we know it was experimented upon.
You don't think it occurred naturally?
I personally don't, but that's only my personal opinion.
By itself, microplasma incognitus, what does it do?
What does it produce?
And I guess it is treatable with antibiotics, but what does it do?
Well, it is a good transfer mechanism.
And by that I mean you can add other things to it.
Now, what it does to you or I, if we get it, is primarily, you may have heard of microplasma pneumonia.
That's probably the thing that we hear most about, and that's treated with erythromycin or doxycycline.
So the pneumonia is, and I had that when I came back from the Gulf War.
Many of the Gulf War veterans have had mycoplasma pneumonia.
It's not that common, but a lot of people do get it.
We're seeing, of course, huge numbers in the Gulf War veterans.
Alright, now, you said then that they found 40% of the AIDS The virus or the genetic structure of the AIDS virus?
Well, it is the HIV envelope gene.
The envelope gene surrounding the AIDS virus.
So it does not give you AIDS, obviously.
It is not the complete AIDS virus.
And to be any more specific than that, I'd have to refer you to them because it's really not my area of expertise.
Alright, if you took that though, that much of the envelope gene of AIDS, and combined it with microplasma incognitus, What then do you have?
Well, what you do is you combine it with mycoplasma.
And when you combine it with mycoplasma, then, that's my understanding, you get mycoplasma incognitus.
And what you get then is a disease that mimics the AIDS virus.
It mimics it in many, many different ways.
For instance, you first get the night sweats, the lymph node swelling, the rash, headache,
inability to eat, nausea, and then it goes on to different other problems.
But you see, this is where the person usually goes to the doctor and says, I've got this
horrible chronic fatigue, this horrible rash, I can't function, I don't feel well, and the
doctor says, well, I need to test you for AIDS.
It happens universally when I'm hearing from the truth.
So they're tested for Western blot or the ELISA test, they're tested for AIDS, and sure
enough it comes back negative.
So the doctor says, well, I've tried everything.
I can't find anything wrong.
Well, the majority of the lab findings are going to be normal at this point.
So they can't find anything.
Now, if they were to do a test for the microplasma incognitus, there's only... And there is a test.
That's correct.
There's only a couple of places that that can be done.
One of them is at a lab called the Immunosciences Lab in Los Angeles.
The other place is by Dr. Garth Nicholson.
It's a very specific test and it is not done, obviously, because mycoplasma is essentially an agent that is not used in this country, is not seen in this country, at least it wasn't until the Gulf War, pretty much.
So, now, Dr. Vajani at the Immunosciences Lab has agreed to do this test and is doing it for Gulf War veterans.
So, this, by the way, though, is what the Associated Press recently came out with the announcement Via Dr. Nicholson and via Representative Norm Dix of Washington State in which Representative Dix wanted to know why haven't I heard about this information on the Mycoplasma?
Why are we this far after the war and we don't know about this?
And Representative Dix did call me personally and ask me why he hadn't heard about what we were talking about.
I told him the information's been out there.
We have been trying to get it out.
It's been provided to Congress.
Dr. Nicholson has provided it to the Pentagon, but it was going nowhere.
So he called a news conference on the 23rd of December, and it hit the newspapers.
The reason I think that it did was because Norm Dix called in the Pentagon and said, let's look at this thing.
Now, Norm Dix sits on the Appropriations Committee over the Pentagon, and I think that is probably why the Pentagon listened to him.
Be that as it may, we want it looked at.
Now, right now we're doing independent testing on Gulf War veterans.
Dr. Nicholson has been doing it for three years on his own dime.
And he was recently told by the MD Anderson Cancer Center, stop doing research on Gulf War veterans.
He refused to do it.
They terminated him and he went to California.
I shouldn't say terminated.
For whatever reason, he left at that point.
He was a tenured professor.
He went to California where he is now.
Setting up his own laboratory there to do the test and the research on Gulf War veterans.
Alright, another question for you.
AIDS patients have been known to generate for the rest of the population all kinds of bronchial conditions and so forth that cannot be treated with traditional antibiotics.
Is it possible that because of the AIDS connection to the AIDS envelope gene That what we have here is something from the Gulf War that some AIDS patients caught and then began infecting other people with.
I don't think that's plausible.
I don't think it's probable.
I mean, anything is possible, but I think that there were too many people that got mycoplasma pneumonia very shortly during the war or after the war.
For instance, I myself was sick within six months after the war.
So we're talking about a pretty fast evolution of the disease.
I can't answer that question.
I don't know about all the possibilities that could exist, but we're seeing about 50% of the Gulf War veterans now positive for Mycoplasma incognitus.
50%?
That's correct.
So, this is where we have to say, wait a minute.
We've got a very strong case here.
Alright, but the AIDS envelope gene doesn't get mixed up in this.
Well, there's only two ways, right?
One, AIDS patients did it, or It was scientifically... Is there a way to scientifically determine exactly how the AIDS envelope gene got mixed in?
Because that has rather dark connotations.
Oh, it does.
And let's give everyone the benefit of the doubt that it was a contaminant.
Let's say that the mycoplasma incognitus could have been a contaminant of the anthrax vaccinations, which I believe is a possibility.
It doesn't make any difference if it was a contaminant Or if it was purposely put there.
They got it.
That's exactly right.
We've got 50% of the people that are being tested that are now positive for it.
Now here's the other interesting thing is that the VA is not testing for it, will not test you for it, and will not give you the doxycycline.
And I can't tell you the number of people that called me today saying no doctor will give it to me.
Every doctor has told me they don't want to get involved because they're afraid the government will come after them.
Well, I want to give a plea out for any doctor to please contact us who will be willing to treat Gulf War veterans.
I've even had doctors saying, look, I don't want to get the disease.
It is communicable and I don't want to get it.
I don't want it in my waiting room.
And here we have a new problem, which is turning our Gulf War veterans into lepers, which, my God, is the last thing we want to do to them.
They have had a bad enough time all along, but we do have a communicable illness.
You know, I'm not imagining this.
Neither are the families.
It is communicable.
It's in the bloodstream.
Or in the blood system.
It's being transmitted.
It's what are we going to do with the disease.
I don't care where it came from.
I don't care if it came down from an airplane.
I don't care where it came from.
We need to treat the people.
Well, I certainly agree with that.
And so that plea seems reasonable to me.
Doctors willing to I treat Gulf War veterans, and apparently a lot of them are not, or will not, with the appropriate antibiotics.
Alright, we're going to break here, and when we come back, there is new information about the direction some Gulf War vets are going to take, since the direction of the Pentagon has not been working so well for them.
Not when we come back.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 8, 1997.
Music.
Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired January 8th, 1997.
My guest is Joyce Riley, and there is new information about what some vets are going to do about the Gulf War disease, since they're not having a lot of luck with the Pentagon.
We're going to get to that in a moment.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 8th, 1997.
Back now to Joyce Riley in Houston.
Uh, you are in Houston, aren't you?
That's correct.
Okay.
Um, Joyce, um, you called me Earlier in the week, and you said there's something really heavy going on.
That some Gulf War vets are going to the U.N.?
That's correct.
Because it was a U.N.
action, which I wasn't even aware of at the time because I didn't even really know what it was all about.
I was so naive.
But because it was a U.N.
action, the only place now that the veterans can go for redress is to the Human Rights Commission of the United Nations.
Yikes!
So they have made the decision to go to this level of activity and the individuals that I'm talking about, the group that I'm talking about, is a group called the Operation Desert Shield, Desert Storm Association with Vic Sylvester in Odessa, Texas, who has been a leader in this area for a long time.
And what they did was file a complaint with the United Nations On December 3rd or 4th of 1996.
I'm just going to read you.
They've made some incredible allegations here.
All right.
Sir, it is with great distress that I have to inform you that in our concerted opinion, the United States Department of Defense and its personnel, the Department of Veterans Affairs and its personnel, now stand in violation of that charter, in violation of the Nuremberg Code.
the Declaration of Helsinki and in the detriment and in detriment to the common
interest and concerns of the United Nations Veterans Community.
Now pursuant to this United States own staff report dated December 8, 1994 prepared for the Committee of Veterans
Affairs, the United States Department of Defense
was found to have done the following. Now this is in a government report. A. They have intentionally exposed
military personnel to potentially dangerous
substances, often in secret.
B. Repeatedly failed to comply with required ethical standards when using human subjects in military research during war or threat of war.
C. The United States Department of Defense, the DOD, Department of Affairs, have repeatedly failed to provide information and medical follow-up of those who participated in military research or who were ordered to take investigational drugs.
D, the United States Department of Defense has demonstrated a pattern of misrepresenting the danger of various military exposures that continue today.
Now with that, they have stated that the United States Veterans Community believes or the United Nations Veterans Community believes that this evidence indicates a pattern of crimes against humanity and potential war crime activity by members of the administration of the DoD And the Veterans Affairs and the CIA.
So what they're essentially saying is that they want and they filed this with the UN to ask for a investigation into all personnel within the CIA, the Department of Defense and the Department of Veterans Affairs.
And literally they want every person looked at.
In fact, those go for veterans who had physicians that would not treat Uh, who continue to make them believe they were a psychiatric patient, etc.
They want every person evaluated.
Well, I've got all kinds of reactions to that.
One, my first one, I guess, is how sick is it when our own citizens have to go to the U.N., which the U.S.
doesn't much like anyway, officially, and won't pay its dues to, Uh, and in effect act as witness against their own government.
Item two is, for the UN to achieve this for them means they need virtual police powers within this country.
Isn't all of that more or less true?
Oh, absolutely.
I couldn't agree with you more.
I do not like this action.
I do not personally agree with it.
It's not one that I would have promoted.
But those that were in this position felt that was the only avenue they had.
Now, you said something very, very true in how thick this is, that our military must go to a foreign power to get help.
Now, in talking with Daniel New the other night, we were discussing this, as to what a tragedy it is, because it almost establishes the U.N.
as a foreign power, as an entity.
And I think that it is beyond reproach that the United States government has not taken care of its own military and they have forced them into this kind of action.
You know, for me to come on your show, for me to talk on the airwaves and say there is an illness, there is an illness, for the Pentagon to get up there and say there isn't one, there isn't one, meanwhile men and women are dying.
The issue is not is there an illness or not, the issue is can it be treated and how?
But to admit that, they have to admit certain unethical, illegal activities that occurred.
And that is what they're not wanting to do.
Why can't they blame it on... Here's what I don't understand.
If it is treatable, and most of it is, Then, to get rid of all this, why not blame it on the Iraqis?
I mean, even if they developed this at Fort Meade or someplace like that, and it got out of hand, or it got sold to them, or whatever, blame it politically on the Iraqis and treat it.
Why not?
Because a lot of it cannot be treated.
A lot of it has passed the point of no return.
This is the sad part, and this is the part I don't like to talk about, but we know individuals that cannot be treated now.
Where are we going to go now with the military that has been devastated?
They got about 600,000 of the individuals out of the military as fast as they could so that the military would not be faced with this problem.
So that we would not have a sick military.
But now we've got a sick military on the outside.
Yes, the antibiotic is effective in many of the cases, in about 60% of the cases.
But that's all.
The organophosphate poisoning from the chemical weapon, can it be treated?
They couldn't answer that question today at the news conference.
Because organophosphate poisoning is very serious.
Where are we going to go, America?
Now I hope you realize the severity of this.
Well then there can only be one word, liability.
That's it.
I mean, they've got to be afraid.
Of the level of liability.
If there's a lot that cannot be treated, that's a lot of liability.
Well, we're talking now in the realm of war crimes.
We are talking about intentional neglect and criminal intent here.
And one of the things that we're interested in pursuing right now is getting evidence and information regarding those that were ordered to destruct the medical records, to destroy the medical records.
Those that were ordered to do so or that participated in it.
We need that information.
We know it's gone on.
We know attorneys were arrested for it.
But this is footage of records gets into a whole criminal violation in and of itself.
Whether you consider failure to treat or not, that's one issue.
But destroying medical records, and we know that about 60% of the medical records have either been, are either missing or they have been sanitized.
So now you've destroyed people's health, you've denied them treatment, you've destroyed their medical records.
There is a lot of criminal involvement in this, I'm sorry.
In the theater of war, on the battlefield, how would microplasma incognitus be dispersed?
Well, it's questionable as to whether it can be transferred in scud missiles.
There are some Some conditional problems that would have to be met with that and I'm not an expert on that to speak on that.
It can be a contaminant of the drugs that were given and other than that I really cannot speak to the issue of mycoplasma transfer.
We know that the other biological agents could be transferred in the Scud missiles.
In fact I received some documents that were messages from the Joint Chiefs of Staff discussing the chemical warheads that were found And discussing whether or not there were actually biologicals in those chemical warheads.
Now, here's something that I think needs to be mentioned, is that what we are hearing is literally their side of the story, which does not have anything to do with what the first-hand accounts of those that are on the battlefield.
I have been told, and by very reputable individuals who have no reason to lie, they're sick, they need help, but I've been told that we use chemical weapons.
I've had first-hand accounts that they saw chemical weapons used on us.
Now, we are not the good guys in this, unfortunately.
This was just a mess.
But denying treatment to our troops is only making it worse.
We know that those Scud missiles from most of the films that have been evaluated only had a one-stage explosion on them.
Right.
This is important.
If you don't have a two-stage, you don't have the subsequent booster hitting the explosive, What is it?
It's obviously a chemical or biological warhead.
So if you have a patriot hitting a scud and there's only one explosion, there's only one explanation for what that was.
Now there were too many areas that had too many dead animals that had dead flies on them.
Now those animals, many of them were tested, and we know that they know what that was all about.
Chemical weapons, 14,000 alarms went off, we know what that was all about.
The alarms that went off, the troops were told, retest until you get a negative.
Yeah, 14,000 alarms.
That's a lot of alarms.
Uh, what about the company that made these alarms?
Do they admit why, uh, we understand now why we had false alarms or do they stand by their product or what?
I've never read anything with regard to that, but we use different types of alarms.
We had MA8 ones and M256 alarms.
There were not just one type of alarm over there, and our alarms are supposed to have been very effective.
They did not malfunction or misfire to the tune of 14,000.
In fact, that was addressed by Senator Regal in his committee hearings.
He said that is absolutely ridiculous to think that anyone would even consider that that would happen.
I did notice, Joyce, the other day, CNN ran a story about a new mobile biological field testing unit.
That within a minute or two can determine if biologicals have been used.
You know, it's this vehicle.
And I'm wondering, why would they be designing this so quickly if they did not suspect that was the case in the Gulf?
Well, I think that's pretty obvious.
We do suspect the problem, we know what happened, and we know what happened during the Gulf War.
You cannot have a disease passing through so many people without a contagious disease.
You're not going to have a contagious disease without a biological weapon.
So wherever it came from, I don't care if it was in the food or it was in the immunizations or in the scuds, we have it.
So they obviously know.
Now, here's the problem is that we provided all of this to Saddam Hussein.
You haven't heard this discussed in any of the reports either.
Senator Regal said that he thought it was absolutely astonishing to find out that we had provided Saddam Hussein with all of these agents.
To provide for nuclear, biological and chemical capability.
Right.
Now, explain to me why we would provide all of these agents up through 1990 to Saddam Hussein, then we go over there and George Bush decides we need to bomb them all now.
Think about this.
Through all this time we're providing it to them and now we decide this could be a threat, we need to destroy it.
Well, we were providing to Iraq and Iran at the same time.
It had to be a financial issue.
Tremendous amount of money was spent on these agents.
Well, I think at one point, we wanted to support Saddam against the Iranians.
And that's probably the reason they would give for why we did it.
But why would we sell it to Iran at the same time that we sold it to Iraq?
Well, because we're schizoid.
Well, that could be a good reason.
And there again, we have the mental illness in the Defense Department.
But, you know, let me just tell you also, here's what was found after the war.
Now, this is another Interesting comparison as to how the Department of Defense, well, how they think that we are so stupid we're going to accept everything they say.
Here are some of the agents that were found after the war.
They found scuds loaded.
13,000 155mm shells loaded with mustard gas.
I know.
6,200 rockets loaded with nerve agent.
millimeter shells loaded with mustard gas. I know. 6,200 rockets loaded with
nerve agent on and on. Sarin. Yes and we thought these weren't used and we
thought he just left them on the battlefield for the fun of it.
Yeah, I know.
Actually, there was a story about some UN guys who drilled a hole, I think we talked about this last time, into the warhead of a Scud, and sarin came pouring out.
Sarin gas.
Well, it sounds like a government employee to me that would do that.
All right, we've got calls.
Oh, there is one more thing.
After you were on, I think the last time, you told us about a U.S.
Code, Chapter 50, I think it was?
Correct.
And I found it very hard to believe.
So, by God, we went over to the Cornell University Library website, and there it was.
30 days notification to local authorities, and people can... Actually, the government can experiment on the American civilian population.
It's true.
It's there.
Everybody was astounded.
And that is part of U.S.
Code, isn't it?
That's correct.
So what does that mean?
They can put an airplane over San Francisco and spray the city with something?
Well, they've already done it.
And I have been told about some experiments that are going on in some other parts of the country.
I don't want to talk about it, but that are actually going on now, where the animals are all dead in those particular areas, and they know that there is some type of experiment.
You see, but, Art, you know, after you aired that on your show, it was the talk of talk shows all over the country.
I know.
It was the topic.
Well, it was true.
That's right.
And people were astounded.
And you were the first one.
Now, why is it that some nurse from Missouri City, Texas, That's right.
spend her life savings trying to tell the world what is going on.
Now I don't mind doing it, but surely there are people a lot smarter than I am out there
that should have discovered this, should have voted against it, and should have told USA
Today or CNN what was going on.
There is an agenda out there to keep information from us.
Now one of the things that I hope that you understand that I have been doing is I am
providing you documentation.
I don't bring you anything I can't support.
I think it is critical to understand that there are those people out there that do this
kind of work, that study this, and they need to be listened to.
But when I first realized that our military was dying, not being treated, and I went forward to find one other person that would believe me, it was real hard.
And especially the media.
Now they're calling.
AP called and wanted to do a big interview the other day, but I went to them three years ago.
I have gone to the local TV station here in Houston, I have gone to all the radio stations here in Houston, and no one would listen to me.
They labeled me a wacko.
You know, now people that are doing this kind of thing are labeled right-wing, wackos, patriots, whatever you want to call them.
Well, I think we need to take a new look at what this kind of person is that's trying to save this country.
But I don't see this as a right-left issue.
I see it as a medical issue.
Oh, absolutely not.
But one gets labeled that you are too eccentric because you're trying to save this country.
And I do want to say one thing in defense of myself right now is that I love this country.
And I was raised by a father that was in the Air Force.
My mom was in the Navy.
And every night, my father, before he went to bed, he would play Off We Go into the Wild Blue Yonder.
I was raised with that.
I mean, I am the type of person that if I'm home alone, I'll salute the flag as it goes by.
I mean, I believe in this country.
I believe so much I'm willing to put my life on the line, everything I own on the line, because I want America to be safe.
I don't want there to be tyranny here.
I don't want there to be those that can conspire to create a disease or maintain a disease in our population and we don't even know about it.
I mean, this is all coupled with the chronic fatigue, the fibromyalgia we've been seeing since 1991.
And now, the Vietnam veterans are getting together, the chronic fatigue sufferers, the Gulf War veterans, and we're saying, not no, but hell no, it's over.
You've crossed the line in the sand.
And I want to make one other statement, and that is, there is more military, or there are more military, than the Pentagon could ever, ever hope that there wasn't.
In other words, more military now have found out about what is going on, and they're not happy.
And these are people that are individuals that are out of the service, in the service, and they understand what is transpiring.
And what's going to happen, I don't know, but this is what really concerns me, is what is the Pentagon going to do now?
How big are your files now?
How many Gulf War vets claiming illness have you talked to?
Oh, in the thousands, I don't know.
I've talked to so many.
I mean, I couldn't tell you.
Uh, I get over a hundred phone calls a day.
Alright, uh, Joyce, hold on, we're at the bottom of the hour.
We will, uh, be back with Joyce Riley in a moment, and I have just one other question, then we'll go to the phones.
Uh, I do wonder, what exactly might the government experiment on us, civilians, with?
We'll be right back.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 8th, 1997.
Go, go, go!
I'm going to be a good boy.
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you You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 8th, 1997.
Back now to Joyce Riley in Houston, Texas.
Joyce, just a little bit of speculation.
What in the world might our own government experiment on us with?
Any ideas?
Just speculate.
Well, we already know that they have experimented with different types of viruses and bacteria.
That's pretty well documented.
That information has been put into some actual government documents that we've been able to obtain.
And the concern is, is why are they doing this?
Yeah.
If they want to see how a disease affects a certain population, you know, one of them was done at an airport to see how far it would transfer.
I mean, you know, within the people within the airport.
These kinds of experiments, I think, are a violation of our human rights.
I should say.
Absolutely.
It's been going on for so long.
I cannot tell you the number.
Well, I wish I could.
I've got an example here of the CIA experiments that have gone on in this country.
And it would just depress you totally.
It lists, of course we know about MKUltra and MKNaomi, the biological warfare testing, Operation White Coat, which was the Seventh Day Adventist testing, and all of these things have been done without our knowledge.
In fact, I've even got some information on MKUltra that said that they protected the researchers because they didn't want to divulge their confidentiality or release their, you know, it was against their rights to divulge their confidentiality.
Nothing was mentioned about, of course, The 55 schools and the, you know, on and on that were experimented upon.
There are some testing areas where they're saying they're testing biological type agents for forest, for deforestation, for water, and really we don't know.
We don't know, but there's large epidemics of things like in Pine Village, Nevada, where they had huge outbreaks of chronic fatigue.
Why?
And is that mycoplasma based?
We're going to find out.
Um, so those are the ones that I can think of offhand.
I don't know what to say to that.
Anyway, we'll be right back.
now we take you back to the night of january eighth nineteen ninety seven on
art bill somewhere in time i've got a fact here it says at the end of the gulf war
saddam hussein boasted to his own people that he had won the war
Considering the sickness in our military, now here, could he, in effect, have been right?
Interesting point.
I have a picture, also, of Iraqis holding a sign that says, Bush, your troops are dead.
And it's very chilling when I think about that.
Was he right?
I don't know.
He said it would be the mother of all battle.
I don't know.
All right, here's one more for you.
The open-air bombing of Iraq of chemical and biological munitions while still sealed in their storage containers or artillery shells is in stark contrast to the way the U.S.
Chemical and Biological Weapons Disposal Program operates, in which the active agents are carefully Removed from their containers or delivery systems, then burned in high-tech incinerators under tightly controlled and monitored conditions inside sealed facilities.
Given the safety concerns and controversy that are still voiced over the operation of this specifically designed facility, it is unbelievable that the government could claim that open-air bombing of sealed munitions Could possibly be safe.
There is no way to guarantee complete and effective incineration by this crude, open-air method.
The government's handling of the matter represents the height of hypocrisy.
It's an interesting point.
A condescending insult to the intelligence of Americans.
A pathetic attempt.
to cover up a massive failure in the military's handling of proper disposal
of these Iraqi weapons. May the truth become widely known so we can take care of those who need treatment and learn
not to make this kind of terrible mistake in the future. Good point?
Excellent point. I think we need to look at the fact that first of all we sold
them the stuff then we went over and decided to bomb it out of there.
And, yes, it absolutely is dangerous.
Salmon Pack was one of the areas, biological areas, that were bombed.
You haven't heard about Salmon Pack yet.
You know, they're going to sneak out chemosea, sneak out all of these biological and chemical dumps that were bombed.
You know, even, let me tell you, another insult to our intelligence is that They keep telling us nobody got sick over there, so therefore we didn't think there was a problem.
Well, I just got a message from the Joint Chiefs of Staff that said during the war, 40% of all our U.S.
troops were sick.
They had some type of problems.
Chest pain, a problem probably related to a chemical or biological agent.
So, you know, it's just one lie after the other.
You could tell a million lies.
There's only one truth.
And we're seeing the numbers of lies that have been told.
One of the lies is that we had adequate chemical detection systems.
They misfired a lot, but, you know, they were okay.
Well, what we find out now is that it took 1,000 times too much sarin gas to detonate our alarms, or to make our alarms sound.
In other words, the threshold was 1,000 less than that.
But we didn't, you know, we're just now learning all these things, and yet they're still saying, gee, I don't know if they're sick or not.
Organophosphate poisoning is deadly, and exposure to that kind of sarin gas is deadly.
Well, if 14,000 alarms went off, and they were false alarms, then what damn good were the units they had?
Well, absolutely.
And we had no biological monitoring systems, and so when Assistant Secretary of Defense Dorn went before the committee hearing and said there was no evidence, classified or unclassified, of biological or chemical agents, Well, then they said to him, by the way, were there any biological monitoring systems?
Well, uh, no.
So how do you know there weren't any biologicals?
Well, nobody died.
Well, there are a lot of people sick and maybe it was a disease that was just to incapacitate.
Uh, not to kill them on the field.
Well, it just does not surprise me because we all know that Saddam was working hard on biological agents.
Very hard.
And he was really backed into a corner.
Did he use them?
My guess would have been sure he used them.
Now, I can't be positive about that, but since we had no way to monitor, how do we know?
And Art, wouldn't you err on the side of safety?
Of course.
You wouldn't you take for granted Let's take worst case.
Saddam was a bad boy.
Let's take worst case.
Treat these Gulf War veterans for both biological and chemical agent poisoning.
Or look at it for that.
Suspect that.
But no.
What happened after the war?
Within two years after the war, you were seeing these big headlines.
There is no Gulf War illness.
Right.
Don't ask again.
I mean, that's incredible.
No thought of, gee, we knew we had it.
Because we knew Camarilla blew up.
Uh, even though they want you to believe that the paper was found in the back of the Pentagon somewhere, misfiled, behind a box.
I mean, Dr. Leisure, Dr. Marie Leisure said, I knew about cannabis in 1991.
The troops told me they were exposed to chemicals.
But you know what?
They've got Dr. Schwartz, and they've got all these doctors up there doing all these studies, but are they asking Gulf War veterans if they actually saw chemical agents with yellow bands around it, or biological agents with green bands around it?
No, they're not.
They don't want to know that answer.
Well, the way things are going right now, maybe with this Chapter 50 thing, to find out whether it's really true, they will blow up some U.S.
munitions depot somewhere near some city, see what happens.
That makes too much sense.
You know that, don't you?
Well, in trying to figure out what happened to Flight 800, they're going to blow up a 747.
Well, let me mention one thing.
I'm not an expert on Flight 800, but the French were the ones that reported the so-called flare.
Interesting, during the Gulf War, the French were the ones that would not take those vaccines.
And that also made their troops take docks of cycling on a daily basis.
And the ones who didn't get sick?
Absolutely.
It's kind of interesting.
All right.
We've got some calls.
Let us take them.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Joyce Riley.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
Yes, sir.
Yeah, I was just wanting to bring up there, I was in the Marine Corps back in the Gulf War there, and when we deployed to Saudi, then when we went up in the ground offensive into Kuwait there, We would wear our, uh, chemical suits, whatever you want to call them, mop suits.
And, uh, we would wrap tape, like a strip of tape, on your arm and your leg.
And, uh, when we were going into Kuwait there, uh, we got a, you know, the, uh, signal for gas attacks, so we were suitin' up there.
And I happened to glance down at my chem tape, and it was turnin' pink.
And, uh, I looked over at my buddies there, and I was like, hey, look at this, you know, and everybody's like, oh, man, you know, I guess they're doin' it.
And then, um, We kept going on in farther and we stopped on the outskirts of Kuwait City there.
When we were stopped there after about a couple weeks or so, that's when we set up in a big perimeter there.
All down the line, guys would start getting sick real bad and all.
At the time, I didn't pay much attention to it.
I thought it was just because of the conditions we were living in, I guess.
But then when we got back to the United States I started talking with guys from an infantry unit farther down from us and they were talking about some of their experiences and they were talking about coming up on Iraqi bunkers and out of the artillery shells they were leaking out like paint gel or whatever it was and they were telling me about an Iraqi captain that came up to him with his hands up in the air and he was screaming And they asked the guy, what's wrong with you?
And he said that they had tried to fire off some of their chemical rounds, and I guess they misjudged the wind or the wind changed on them, and it blew it right back into them.
And then, by coincidence, I read in an article a few months back here that in the combat operations log for 2nd Marine Division, that they had actually had it logged in where they had taken casualties from chemical weapons, I believe, though.
It just amazes me, you know, all that evidence right there.
All they'd have to do is interview some of those people and they're gonna try to deny it still, you know.
Sounds to me like Joyce should be interviewing you.
I'd sure like to talk to you, please.
Yeah, well, I'm here in Houston, by coincidence.
Oh, wonderful, wonderful.
If you got a number, if you could put it out at the end of the show or something.
Sure, let me give it right now.
We'll do it now.
Let's do it right now.
Thank you, sir.
Joyce, there is a deal.
You have a tape.
And I know that you will give it free to Gulf War veterans and charge others who want it.
That tape has all the information about this disease.
And the documentation to support it.
And the documentation to support it.
And the cover-up.
Are you beginning to get more press inquiries?
Yes, yes.
In fact, I just came back from Odessa, Texas where I met with the German 60 Minutes people who are doing a full-blown story on this in Germany.
You know, the Germans did not provide any troops during the war.
And by the way, they had vehicles like you cannot imagine that were in... They did provide vehicles, though.
And they did not take one of their vehicles back.
They left them all in the sand over there.
I thought that was kind of interesting.
It is.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Joyce Riley.
Hi.
Hello?
Oh, hello.
Yes, hi.
Uh, hi.
I was wondering if, uh, Ms.
Riley had heard of, um, it's, uh, called MCS, which is Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, or Chemical Aid?
Uh, yes.
In other words, people who are, uh, sensitive to or reactive to almost every artificial chemical out there.
Joyce?
Yes.
What we're finding is that the ones that are most affected by MCS, or Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, are the Gulf War veterans That were really deep in the area of the chemical explosions.
Those that were affected by the organophosphates tend to be most severely affected.
There is one I know, one guy that I know that is, I believe he's 30 years old now, and he has to live in a room that the room is tapered with aluminum foil.
He is too sensitive to everything.
And we're not talking about an imaginary type thing.
We're talking about an anaphylaxis or Going into respiratory arrest when they're affected with these chemicals, it's destroyed their immune systems.
So yes, we're seeing it.
We're not seeing it among the spouses.
We're seeing it, or the people that maybe have been affected by the mycoplasma, until the latter stages.
But it's primarily those that were involved in the chemical arena.
Joyce, war is never going to be the same, is it?
Oh, I think war has changed forever.
I think that's why they're decreasing the amount of ammunition that they're using in the military and artillery and armaments.
Because it is going to be a war of viruses and bacteria from now on.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Joyce Riley.
Hi.
Hi.
I'm an nurse in an emergency room, and I've seen a couple people.
I work in a civilian hospital.
Where are you?
What part of the country?
Missouri.
All right.
But it strikes me that these people have virtually nowhere to turn.
I have a couple thoughts.
I'm not a cellular biologist either, but maybe Joyce can answer this.
I heard somewhere where Saddam Hussein had hired scientists from a western country to help develop some biological warfare that would come in a way that had long-term and large population effects later on.
And perhaps mycoplasma is really a fairly common and easily transmissible bacteria and to have mixed it with this mutant hybrid Yes, and I think she's very right in what she's saying.
I agree with that.
perhaps that was his way of sending this back to us.
And maybe that's why the government is so hesitant to admit what's going on,
because they're afraid of the widespread panic and, quite frankly, don't know how to handle it.
There certainly would be widespread panic, wouldn't there?
Yes, and I think she's very right in what she's saying.
I agree with that.
I believe that is probably what happened.
I would say that, yes, we did train the mycoplasma scientists,
the majority of them around the world.
There are about 11 major mycoplasma scientists.
And there was one in Baghdad who was killed for whatever reason, we don't know.
But we do know that these scientists were trained here, a lot of them at Fort Detrick, Maryland.
We also trained the Iraqi troops in chemical munitions from 1977 to 1979.
Great.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Joyce Riley.
Hello.
Hi.
Hi, where are you?
I'm calling from Los Angeles.
Yes, sir.
And I was wondering, do you, Miss Riley, I was wondering if you think that soldiers are kind of pre-planned as guinea pigs?
Yeah, that's a fair question.
If they're willing to experiment on the civilian population, Then surely, there's not even a regulation covering experimentation on the military.
That's right.
And to quote a government document, over the past 50 years, hundreds of thousands of our military have been experimented upon without their knowledge.
I'm sure of it.
I'm sure of it.
Look, Joyce, we're at the end of the time here.
What can people do?
They can get your tape, The general public or the Gulf War vets, and I'll give out that info in a second again.
Beyond that, watch.
It's time for action.
It's time for real action.
What we need to do is, we're having people that are taking out ads in the newspapers.
There's a gentleman in Minnesota, Don Cacciotti, who's organized a group up there.
Some World War II vets have gotten behind this, showing the video, talking to people about it, coming to the aid of the Gulf War veterans, doing some fundraising for them.
What happened yesterday with all of this information coming out was I had two instances in which a wife and a father in different situations said, look, there is no go for illness.
I don't care if you think you're sick.
Either get out there and make a living or go to a shelter.
I'm finished with you.
Now, this is what has happened.
They're on the street now and they need help.
We have got to rally around them.
Certainly we need funding to help take care of them.
But the bottom line is we've got to tell the rest of America what's really going on.
All right.
Thank you, Joyce.
We will do it again as the occasion arises.
Thank you.
Take care.
That's Joyce Riley.
So, there you've got it.
I'll just kind of let it sink in.
I tried to shoot a few holes in the whole thing this time and act a little bit as devil's advocate so we could better understand what this disease is And what it is not, why it is spreading, whether it is real, how it could be covered up, and now our own troops, our own U.S.
citizen troops, are having to go to the United Nations to get some action.
In effect, testifying against their own government.
A sad day, indeed.
We'll be right back.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 8th, 1997.
I've seen him bloom, for me and you.
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world I see skies so blue, and clouds so white
The brightness of day, the darkness of night And I think to myself
Now we take you back to the night of January 8th, 1997 On Art Bell, Somewhere in Time
Art Bell, Somewhere in Time Now, the big talk of the day has been the Supreme Court's consideration of, and apparent preparation to reject, the right to have a physician assist you to commit suicide if you want to.
Most of the justices made comments indicating they don't think it's such a good idea.
Uh, here is a fax.
Dear Art, the Supreme Court started hearing arguments today about physician-assisted suicide.
Having watched my mom die recently, I can have some sympathy for assisted suicide, but not for physician-assisted suicide.
I would not want my doctor to be concerned in any form or fashion with intentionally causing death.
Instead, if the powers that be insist, I would rather there be a death corps formed from specially trained and licensed hospice workers and or from MDs unlicensed for any other kind of medical practice who have first publicly rejected their Hippocratic Oath.
A death squad.
Of course, we all know this is opening the door to eventual dictated euthanasia.
We're getting older, Art.
Think about it.
Well, I have.
Many times, actually.
And I think most people, adults, have.
And for a long time I thought, well, if I really got sick and it really got bad, I might pull the plug myself.
I have changed my view of that, and I would not do that.
However, I have not changed my view that your life And what you decide to do, spiritually, yourself, is your own damn business and none of the government's.
It's not the state's business.
It's not the police business.
It's not the business of the federal government in any way.
And I'm not going to be talked out of that.
I am absolutely that much of a libertarian.
It's your life.
And if you decide to end it, it's your business, and it's certainly none of their damn business.
That really, really, really makes me angry.
But looks like they're not going to go for it.
Boris Yeltsin looks as though he's back in the hospital and has pneumonia.
And we'll have to wait and see how that works out.
There have been, around the world, suddenly, I'm becoming aware because of all of the messages that I'm getting.
There's been an explosion, not just of UFO sightings, but of apparitions, locutions, heavenly signs, weeping statues.
They're all over the place suddenly.
Why?
Why are we suddenly being flooded with these extraordinary signs and graces?
Why is Mary appearing all over the world?
What's going on?
Do you see any connection between the rash of supposed UFO sightings, abductions and all the rest of it, and the religious sightings?
Is it Millennium Madness, as some would say?
Or is something real going on?
What do you conclude?
I've done a very great deal of thinking about this, and I'm going to do more than just think about it.
By the way, here's an interesting newspaper headline.
Study Finds Fish Sex Mutation.
Egg protein levels high in Mississippi's male carp.
The carp in the Mississippi are beginning to mutate.
Now, that's kind of interesting, because Lake Mead has a very similar problem.
What in the world, or with the world, is going on out there?
Alright folks, open lines, anything you want to talk about, fair game.
Here we go.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi there, Lark.
Hello.
Hey.
Enjoying the show as usual?
Good.
Where are you?
This is Skip out in Calinga in California.
Yes, sir.
Shaking big land.
Very amusing on what's going on with all the oddball stuff in the world.
I think it's not so much to do with millennia, but the fact that there's a damn many of us.
And we're getting crowded.
Like Heinlein said, when you put too many rats in a too small a cage, they start eating each other.
And man is the only animal that voluntarily does that to himself.
I don't know.
I think it would be interesting if some of these things came to pass.
It would probably make the world a lot more interesting.
But my own take on it is that I figure that we'll Probably just continue to see promises of things happening and nothing happening.
Well, that would be all right, too, in view of some of the promises.
And by the way, while we're on that subject, somebody called and said, well, where is Ed Dames?
We haven't heard from Ed Dames.
Let me tell you and catch you up on what's going on there.
I got a telephone answering machine message from Ed Dames yesterday.
He was calling from some point, undisclosed, outside the US.
Working on some, he said, big project.
He gave some warnings about dams breaking.
Rather non-specific.
He said he would be back in about two weeks.
So my guess is, About a week and a half or two weeks from now, we will hear from Ed Dames.
Or, if from wherever Ed Dames is now, he would like to contact us, we would put him on the air.
But he indicated about two weeks.
And that he was not in the country.
So, there you go.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
Yeah, hi, Eric.
Hello.
This is Dave from St.
Louis, Missouri here.
Yes, sir.
And I was listening to the nurse before.
Gas Tower?
Yes.
And, uh, I was sitting here thinking, you know when the, uh, U.S.
Army blew up those big, uh, warehouses full of chemicals?
Can I see it?
Yes.
Well, um, instead of blowing those things up and, you know, spreading that stuff out like the biggest, uh, biological weapon in history... Yup.
Um, shouldn't they have just disassembled the buildings and... Yes.
Yes, without question.
And I thought the person who sent the fax was right on.
When we destroy munitions here, we do it incredibly gently.
We remove it, we put it in an environment, we monitor everything, we be sure it is destroyed properly.
There they just blew the hell out of it!
Well, it seems to me like they wanted to see what it would do.
So what's the better time?
You know?
The other facts have bothered me.
As one said, Saddam said he won the war.
He might have.
But what kind of toll is it going to take over there, too?
I don't know.
And, you know, he probably doesn't care.
It might be the mouse that got the cat, but the mouse died, too.
Say, did you get my fax I sent about the about-and-text?
About what?
About the about-and-text.
It's about the Hail Mary thing that's coming?
I don't think I did.
Oh, okay.
Say, listen, if I send two faxes and a cover, would that get through?
Um, it might, but I don't recommend sending cover sheets.
They are useless wastes of paper.
Yeah.
I mean, there's really no reason to send a cover sheet.
Okay, well, that's just what they... In other words, you've got a fax ID at the top, or you put your name at the bottom.
Yeah.
So, why... Whoever started cover sheets should be shot.
I think the guy down at Kinko's.
Yeah, somebody at Kinko's.
Yeah, that's right.
Okay, all right.
Thanks a lot.
Thank you.
Take care.
Uh, yeah, if you can avoid a cover sheet, avoid it.
It's a totally useless piece of paper.
Just send the message.
First-time cover, oh, first-time cover.
First-time caller online, you're on the air.
Hi.
Uh, yes, uh, this is Barbara, uh, from Hawaii.
Hi there.
And, uh, I was listening to you talk about, um, the Gulf War and everything.
My impression is that Clinton is a Nazi fascist and this thing really got me.
If you want to destroy somebody's country, what better way than to get rid of the patriotic people and the families that support them?
Well, you said Clinton is a Nazi fascist.
That's the way I feel about it.
The war occurred before Bill Clinton.
It occurred during the administration of George Bush.
If these things that Joyce Riley is talking about occurred, they occurred when George Bush was president.
When George Bush had all the CIA reports.
Now, I'm not going to sit here and defend Clinton because he's not my favorite guy.
But the fact of the matter is, it would take more than Bill Clinton to cover this up.
Right.
Right.
You have your whole circle and influential creeping in, infiltrating.
And another thing, all of the way they make it easy for the people to come in, and they have more privileges, the immigrants have more privileges than the Americans.
And they eat up the American taxes and money and everything.
Well, yes.
Alright, thank you.
That, too, has been going on through many administrations.
I do not think Bill Clinton is a Nazi fascist.
Nor do I think was George Bush.
However, we well know that our government Does all kinds of things and has done all kinds of things that most Americans would have thought to be totally, completely, utterly unthinkable.
My God, to experiment on children, pregnant women, that sort of thing.
People don't talk about it a lot because it's almost beyond the pale.
Not almost, is beyond the pale.
And they don't want to believe that of their own government.
I have come to see very little difference between administrations at the top.
How much real difference is there between George Bush and Bill Clinton?
There's barely any that I can delineate, and I mean barely any.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Oh, hi.
Hi.
You, you haven't talked about the, uh, this is, uh, Gary from Panana.
Uh, yes, Gary.
Yeah, I was listening to the radio.
Um, you haven't talked about the, uh, uh, nuclear shells used, uh, during the Iraqi War.
Nuclear shells?
Yeah.
According to the L.A.
Times, um, you know the, the story that, uh, first broke about the, uh, uh, Persian Gulf Syndrome being contagious?
Uh, yes.
That was October 21st.
I'm glad you said that.
okay front page and i quote
uh... but they were exposed to a variety of potentially talk toxic chemicals
but just fumes and smoke from oil well fires diesel fumes toxic paint pesticide
and depleted uranium used in munitions and armor uh... i'm glad you said that uh... depleted uh... you uh...
depleted uranium uh... indeed
a mist form or a dust form might be dangerous.
But those are not... You said nuclear shells.
Well, not... That would imply a nuclear tip, or a nuclear detonation.
Tip of weight.
Uh, exactly correct.
Yes, that may be a factor.
There is no question about it.
But, it's a far cry from a nuclear tipped shell.
A field nuke, in other words.
Uh, depleted uranium.
I guess is used for penetration.
You're trying to penetrate armor.
And there is something of a danger to that.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Yeah, Hayhart?
Yes, sir.
I'd like to say first, I really enjoy your program.
Thank you.
I think it's the greatest thing there is, really.
It is different.
Yeah, and it covers so many things.
What I'd like to talk about right now is I was watching the show on CNN, and Janet Reno and all her lackeys was there, and they were talking real bad about the government breakdown on California and Arizona.
Oh, yes.
Because they voted.
Yes.
And brought up a bunch of stuff about it.
And I mean, they were saying that it's just wrong.
And it's not just wrong.
People voted it in.
I mean, your most fundamental right in this country is to vote.
And if they just come in, and they say, well, we're the government, and we can pretty much do whatever we want, and we can just, you know, come in and say, well, it's a law, it's a federal law, and you can't do it.
These people in California... What they said was, sir, that the people in California and Arizona, when they voted for this medicinal marijuana use, were asleep at the switch.
It is arrogant, it's hypocritical, and it is a shame that the government did not sit back for a little while, think about this, and perhaps use that As a way to begin to consider a change, nationally, in, uh, the way we treat marijuana with respect to other illicit drugs.
No, no, they're not going to do that.
They're going to, uh, take the McCaffrey hardline military, uh, position that we gotta get them.
Uh, not only do they have to say no, but if they don't, they're going to jail.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, how are you?
Okay.
I wanted to make some comments.
Is this Art Bell?
Yes.
Okay, Art.
And first of all, there is a very big difference between Bush and Clinton.
First of all, I want to take everybody back to about 1989, 1990.
First of all, we realized metaphysically and spiritually, now I need everyone to get up on a little bit higher level.
That there was this unequilibrium balance in the life universe, we realized.
The line no longer ran through the earth through the 12th and the 6th.
It had backslid.
Then, because of man's pollution, and I just felt like, personally, my self-defense mechanisms went off as an international spiritual visionary.
Alright, fine.
Sir, hold it.
What?
What are the differences between George Bush and Bill Clinton?
Well, we were going too fast.
We were overlooking one of the most important things of all existence of life, that there is this crack in the earth, this unequilibrium balance.
Alright, alright.
What is the difference, sir?
What is the difference between the way George Bush reacted to your crack in the earth and Bill Clinton has?
Okay, well, not so much a crack in the earth, but an unequilibrium balance.
I'm using your words.
Okay, an unequilibrium balance, a line that is no longer through the 12 and the 6, but backsliding like a clock, okay?
I don't know what the hell you're talking about.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
When we got Clinton, we got to slow down.
We got to take things a little slower.
Bush and all the Republicans and everybody would have just gone so fast and so forward that we would have overlooked that.
Then Saddam Hussein came along and let the fires burn in Kuwait for 48 days and nights, which made the unequilibrium balance even get worse.
So now Mother Nature is vomiting during five days of a full moon and everybody's wondering why all these disruptions are in the live universe.
This was a crime against humanity.
If we would have continued to go Republican, we probably would be in worse shape than we are now.
Because if we were able to go Democratic and take things slower, catch our breath and look around a little bit, would you still see unequilibrium balances again being overseen?
Sir?
Yes?
No offense, but... I'm sorry.
Well, we can talk about whether there is a difference between George Bush and Bill Clinton, but cracks in the earth, numbers, equilibrium balance, and all the rest of it, give me a break.
At the top, with regard to policy, the differences between George Bush and Bill Clinton Could barely be seen as you would look through the eye of a needle.
We'll be right back.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 8th, 1997.
This is a remastered version of the original song. Please enjoy.
Coast to Coast is a remastered version of the original song.
Please enjoy.
Coast to Coast is a remastered version of the original song.
Please enjoy.
Tonight, tonight we're toast.
I feel like we're...
Well alright, the night is yours.
Anything you guys want to talk about, fair game.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Hi.
Tonight's program originally aired January 8, 1997.
Well, alright, the night is yours.
Anything you guys want to talk about, fair game.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air. Hi.
Oh, how nice to hear Pete.
This is Ann in Chicago.
Hi, Ann.
I just spurt that call, and I'm thrilled you're on the air out here now.
I've been desperately hearing you for a year and a half from Portland, Oregon, when I had to move.
Back for family. In any case, I wanted to ask you, you were mentioning all week that you had a dog with your eyes.
And that she had information on the First Lady.
That's right.
And I reviewed that with Joyce earlier in the day.
This is information being developed by an attorney, not by Joyce.
And I am in the process of... I made some calls today.
Instead of having Joyce present the material, I think the attorney filing the case would be the appropriate A presentation, so that's what I am proceeding with.
Okay, well, thanks a lot.
Well, stay on the air.
We need you.
Okay.
Thank you, Chicago.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
It's PJ from Canyon Country.
Yes, sir.
Turn your radio off, please.
Sorry, I pushed the button by mistake.
One thing I'd like to bring up, I've been noticing about the quickening.
It seems like every generation, I'd say ten years or so, Every generation of youth or people tend to be soft.
They can't take things as much, even in aspects of the NFL or any aspect of life.
You can't tackle the quarterback as hard.
Different rules for different people.
It's just not the same.
I wonder if every generation, going back to biblical times, Has gotten softer from the previous generation.
Uh, we have become progressively softer, sir, since World War II.
We are now to the point where if we had a full national need to defend our country, more people than not would turn away.
We're at the point where, uh, if there was a depression at the level of the Great Depression, uh, the suicides now would make the suicides then Look like nothing.
Uh, we are soft.
There's no question.
What do you think, oh, we are getting softer and what do you think, uh, generations are getting softer?
Is it just because things are easier for us?
Yes.
Yes, and if things ever get really hard, believe me, uh, people will not handle it well.
I agree.
I appreciate the call, sir.
Bye.
Uh, he's exactly correct.
We have softened, of course.
Do you honestly think that the Gimme Generation today, and I include not just Generation X, but to a large degree, my own generation, if it really, really came down to sacrifice, do you think they would sacrifice well?
I don't think so.
Sound of explosion.
It's 1997 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Music.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Yes, sir.
Hi.
Very glad to... My radio got me messed up as usual.
Where are you?
Des Moines, Iowa.
My name's Tom.
Hi, Tom.
This is the only program you'll ever hear me say dittos on.
I salute your free thinking and your open mind.
Thank you.
I'd like to just comment that if you look around the military, the only people you see there are the poor.
These are black, white, Hispanic.
The only thing they have in common is they're poor.
It's the only option that they have.
In Vietnam, at one time, in excess of 50% was black until this was discovered by the press.
It's just been a history that they've used us for guinea pigs and denied us everything that we've ever thought we fought for when we came home.
I think it's very frustrating.
It's not the America that I was raised to see and participate in.
The one thing I have noticed through the years is that veterans tend to take care of veterans.
in power in Washington and everywhere else and if they keep stepping on the veterans like they are,
who do they expect to protect them if there is armed conflict within this country?
I'm not sure. That's the scary thing. The same people that they're stepping on are the people
that they're going to expect to, you know, cover them when the shooting starts.
If it does start, I'd hate to see an armed revolution in this country.
I would hate to see that myself, and I don't rule out that possibility.
It unfortunately does not take that many.
Revolutions don't take many.
Very, very small percentage of the people.
So it could happen.
It would be an awful thing.
Truly, it would be an awful thing.
And the militia problems have, for a time now, been relatively quiet, and I hope it stays that way.
Because that is the one thing sure to rip us apart very quickly.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Yes, this is Stu in Phoenix.
Yes, sir.
Yes, the other night you were talking about Sue the Dinosaur.
Oh yes, Sue.
And you were wondering why possibly the FBI might have confiscated the fossil.
Yes.
And I have a hunch that just maybe that fossil was so well preserved that it contained information which would blow great big holes in all the theories we have about dinosaurs.
Possible.
Uh, such as the theory that they all got wiped out 65 million years ago.
I've disagreed with that for a number of years.
I think, uh, small remnants actually survived until the Middle Ages when they were killed off for sport.
The story's about knights slaying dragons.
These legends are usually based in fact.
Well, Michael Crichton thinks they might still be around down in Central America, off the coast of Central America, or South America, some place.
Yes, and the lower Congo region also is rumored to have remnants of a population.
I sure would like to see one.
Yeah, but of course the scientific community would fight to the nail against any such facts being presented.
Because I've maintained for years that science is a religion.
And the high priests of that religion frankly don't want to have egg on their face.
Or dinosaur poop.
Exactly.
No, you're exactly right.
Thank you very much for the call.
Wouldn't it be kind of cool to be able to create a dinosaur?
Now maybe Sue had enough, you know, fresh material to extract enough DNA To, uh, well, you know, create some dinos.
Wouldn't that be something?
And they think that pandas are rare.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hello.
Yeah, this is, uh, Dale and Redding.
Hi, Dale.
I was listening to your program tonight, and I got to thinking about Wayne Green's May of 96 article on the bioelectrifier.
Yes.
We're going to have Wayne Green on again soon.
Wonderful.
I'm working on number 11.
I sit here at night and build them for people.
Oh, you do?
Oh, yeah.
What kind of results have been reported back to you?
I can't give you a definitive answer.
One lady got an abscess in a mouth of poison, and another gentleman was feeling poorly.
Well, it's not the same.
You can also make your silver collate with us.
He said he had a definite improvement the next day.
He had been down for four days in a row.
So I think that is an alternative that vets might look at because I don't think the government
is going to give us any relief on this.
I really don't.
And I don't feel it is our government anymore.
It went away.
Well, it's not the same.
No, it's not, unfortunately.
So anyway, this is Dale, also known as Rocco.
All right, my friend.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And he is building something that Wayne Green has talked about, an electrical device that passes a small current.
I think they do it down near the ankles, through the bloodstream, and they claim that it will purify the blood, even from the AIDS virus.
A definitive, um, testing has not been done, and I keep asking people like that man, uh, what kind of results they've had.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
I'm on.
Yup, you're on.
Huh, I'm on.
You're on.
Alright, turn that radio off.
It's off.
That's good.
Where are you?
Spokane, Washington.
Okay.
Are you there?
No.
Oh!
Art?
Yes.
Okay.
When you were talking to Joyce Riley earlier, I desperately tried to get through to tell her that I've been on the doxycycline for two weeks, and there's a huge difference.
Really?
Huge difference.
How did you get it?
Did you go to your doctor?
Yes, and her physician's assistant questioned me and was going against me, and I said, I want to talk to her.
Right.
She did not question me.
She put the prescription through instantly.
She never said a word.
She just said, OK.
She put it through.
And it worked!
I mean, my rashes are leaving.
Really?
My headaches are gone.
I shoveled 15,000 pounds of snow up here, and I did not get sick for the first time in years.
Doxycycline.
Doxycycline.
It did work.
Well, that's wonderful.
Yes, and I need to get your mailing address.
You do?
Yes, sir.
All right.
Are you ready?
I'm ready.
Art Bell P.O.
Box 4755.
Okay.
In Pahrump.
P-A-H-R-U-M-P.
Pahrump, Nevada.
Zip code 89041-4755.
That's spelled really different.
P-A-H-R-U-M-P.
Pahrump.
Okay.
Oh, that's awesome.
Alright.
But yeah, I was really, really excited about telling her about that, and I'm really an advocate for her cause up here.
I'm spreading it to everybody.
Alright, I thank you for the call, and I want to say something.
Please do not send me cursed things.
Somebody earlier today sent me a long letter and a doll.
That person knows who that person is.
This was a little child's doll.
This doll was cursed.
This doll caused a house to burn down.
And some kind listener out there decided to send me the entire story as well as this old doll.
Well, I'm telling you right now, we took this doll out to the trash can where it presently resides, and poured salt all over it.
That was my wife's idea.
Something about keeping the bad something or another in there, or absorbed by the salt, I don't really understand that sort of thing.
But do not send me things that are supposedly cursed.
Not that I necessarily believe in curses, mind you, But, um, why take a chance?
And more than that, why send it to me?
Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hello.
My name is Sandy.
I'm calling from Wisconsin.
Well, hi there.
Hi.
I would like to know if anyone has called in with any recent information on the goat sucker in the states.
Um, you know, I saw something about the goat sucker.
The chupacabra.
Um, something about Wisconsin, too.
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know what it was.
A guy, I know what it was.
A guy in Wisconsin sent me a fax saying that he hit one with his car.
Wow.
Yeah.
That it was flying, that it had about a 15-foot wingspan, and that the body was gigantic.
And it was right up there near you.
Good, good.
I've already got the squirrels coming around for fig bars, so we'll see what happens.
I've been following up on it quite closely.
I actually am serious about the facts I got.
Are you?
Yeah, doesn't mean it's true, but I did get it.
Okay.
All right?
Yeah, I've been following quite closely on the news in Puerto Rico to some contacts there.
And the last attack that they have had was, let's see, it was on Sunday night.
On three camels that were brought in from the United States for their Three Kings Festival in San Juan.
You're kidding!
And I don't know what happened to the policeman that was supposed to be watching those camels, but apparently he turned his back or whatever, but it drained all three camels.
Wow!
Yeah.
Wow, that's a new one.
That sure is a new one.
Alright, thank you.
Thank you.
The latest chupacabra.
Camels!
Three camels!
My, I had not heard about that one.
First time caller line, whoop, would have been on the air.
West of the Rockies.
Uh-oh.
Here we go again.
Hold on a second, we'll put you over here.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi Art, Jim, from Fresno, California.
Hey Jim.
Hey Art.
You know, you guys were talking earlier about the fascist government.
All you have to do is look at the big curtains in the wall behind the speaker's podium on Congress, and you'll see the two big that's together bundled
fixed with the act handle on it using that
called a fascia and that symbol for world fascism
about twelve feet tall there's one on the side of the congress
platform you guys were talking to the other night to about uh...
the idea that it may be the experience
the enlightened experience of marijuana that
actually that government is trying to make illegal
all the euphoria And I was just simply asking, and I will again right now, if somebody came up with some substance that produced absolute euphoria in human beings, with no after effects, no brain damage, no side effects that could be documented in any way, all it did was produce euphoria, you can bet your bottom dollar it would be illegal.
Yeah, well that's for sure.
What they want to make legal, they want to make legal alcohol which deadens the mind, reduces inhibitions.
It is legal.
Right, I know.
It is legal.
That's what they want.
They want you or us or I or whoever to have stuff that makes you stupid, but they don't want you to have stuff that makes you think.
That's really the bottom line.
They don't want you to have something that... Well, now, let's not get too far out on a limb.
Marijuana alters your... puts you in an altered state.
There is no question about that.
Right, well... But whether or not you are thinking creatively is another question.
It may make you dumb in another way.
That is not the argument.
The argument is it's relative danger compared to alcohol Uh, the argument is, uh, the government including it with the really hard and dangerous drugs, which then turns the whole thing into a lie, causing our children to say, hey, they lie their butts off about this, and so it makes it easier to go to the white powder.
And that's a very good point.
And that's, that's a point that really deserves a lot of attention, because they should never lump together All of the drugs that they have lumped together, they lump crack cocaine together with marijuana.
It's surreal.
You've got a guy out there that's smoking a joint, that's sitting back going, wow this TV program is really interesting, or wow this music sounds really good, or wow look at the pretty flowers or the pretty trees.
Then you have a guy out there that He's sitting in the back alley, shoving a needle in his arm full of heroin, and those guys could both go to jail for the same amount of time.
It's absolutely ludicrous.
And the fact that they're trying to say that California and Arizona cannot pass laws just shows that they are a fascist government, and they're blatant about it by the fascists that are on the sides of the back of Congress.
Sorry.
thank you very much uh...
i wonder how this is going to unfold forward.
That is, what's occurred in Arizona and California.
What do you think is going to happen?
Do you think that California and Arizona, in fear of losing every federal government return of taxpayer money, will shy away or somehow pass laws in opposition to what the people have voted for by initiative?
Do you think the Feds are going to move in?
Do their own enforcement?
What do you think is going to happen?
It's a very interesting question.
The one thing that sticks in my craw is that the Feds are saying, the voters, you folks, were asleep at the switch when you voted for this.
Now that's really, really arrogant.
Because, as I keep saying, they should bear in mind, the very same voters may feel asleep at the switch the next time they're asked to vote for the people who make this accusation.
So, it's going to be interesting.
Very interesting battle indeed.
Alright, we're near the top of the hour.
In some markets, we have a couple of hours yet to go.
And we will continue to do nothing but open lines, straight on through.
In other words, anything you want to talk about, no matter how strange, no matter how weird, no matter how bizarre, is fair game.
Somebody out there might tell me if pouring salt, all this salt, on this cursed doll will really make a difference.
We have this big trash container out there and any moment I expect to hear it banging up and down with this cursed doll trying to get out.
The stuff that people send to you.
And you wonder why I'm hesitant to give out my address.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 8th, 1997.
Got a black magic woman, got a black magic woman, I got a black magic woman, got me so drunk.
Got a black magic woman, got a black magic woman, I got a black magic woman, got me so drunk.
you you
Her hair's a pile of gold, her lips a sweet surprise Her hands are never cold, she's got better days
Besides she'll turn the music on, you won't have to think twice
She's pure as New York snow, she's got better days aside And she'll give you, she'll unheal you, cause a bad card
job can't please you She's a cold-blood, and she knows just what it takes
Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired January 8, 1997.
Once again, here I am.
It's another song I'm hooked on.
I don't know why.
I always have been hooked on this.
Alright, back to it we go.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Oh, wait a minute, let me try it over here.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
Turn your radio off, sir.
There you go.
All right.
Okay, uh, I just wanted to know, I was, uh, heard about the CIA, uh, selling cocaine in Los Angeles.
Yeah.
I heard it on CNN.
A couple of months ago, but you never really hear anything about it on the news anymore.
Well, maybe because it didn't pan out.
You mean like it didn't happen?
Well, no, like it didn't happen.
I'm not saying it didn't.
I'm just saying, since you've not heard much more about it, there must not be much evidence out there, I would guess.
Well, did you hear anything about it?
Oh, yes.
I heard the reports, but as you, I have not heard any follow-up.
So, there you go.
Alright, thanks a lot.
You're welcome.
What can I tell you?
Heard no more about it.
A wild card line, you're on the air.
Oh, boy.
How you doing, Art?
Oh, boy.
I'm fine.
Oh, it's Brian in Auburn.
Yes, sir.
Hey.
I'll tell you what.
What?
The Art of Talk, it's fantastic.
Oh, the book?
Yes.
I'm glad you enjoy it.
And the Bajan.
The Bajan radio, yes.
I just got it.
I'll tell you what, they say seven days ground.
I had it three days.
Three days?
I want to thank C. Crane for that.
Pretty powerful stuff you got on the radio tonight.
Disturbing, I mean just, you know, I mean it's earth-shaking.
Yes.
You know, in your soul.
To think that the United States government would turn their back on a G.I.
on a squid, you know, it's just, it's earth-shaking to me.
I mean, there's a lot going on around us, but I'll tell you what, I mean, it's just,
it's beyond me that Colin Powell would get on national, the national media and say,
well, the Pentagon wouldn't lie to the American people. It's just not true.
There was a day, sir, when I thought, too, it could not be true.
That the people that worked in our military, particularly with regard to those who were in the military service, they would be, if anything, extremely protective of them.
Oh, by the way, this just in from Steve.
Art, guess what?
There is a new Hale-Bopp photo now on the Vatican Observatory's image server.
And he gives the address here.
He says, it does not show Hail Mary, but it is a nice picture of Hail Bop.
Of course, the Vatican has absolutely no interest in this comet, do they?
Really?
This is from the, uh, the Arizona Observatory.
No kidding, Steve.
I'll have to go take a look.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Oh, hello.
I'm calling Joe from Kodiak, Alaska.
Yes, we do get calls from Kodiak.
There's a little bit of a time lag when we get calls from Kodiak.
at classic yes we do get calls from kodiak uh... there's a little bit of a
time lag when we get calls from kodiak i'm not sure why but yes we get calls
or carolina one right this is the estate here
I'm in a... Way outside of the Times.
Yeah, I'm 42 miles.
And our telephones, uh, they use like a beam into the town.
I'm across this bay.
Right.
Okay, so that might be why a lot of the delays are... Uh, I'm sure that's true.
You've got to remember now, there are well over, uh, 315 radio stations, uh, all on at once.
So the odds of hearing from Kodiak at any given moment might be a little slim.
Well, I'm glad I got through.
I just want to compliment you.
I like your open-mindedness, and we need to talk radio more and more to get more of the... I think it really brings out the true American way.
I do, too.
Our freedoms.
I do, too, sir.
Thank you very much for the call and the compliment.
Just open lines.
Whatever anybody wants to bring up is fair game.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hello there.
I wanted to... Let me turn off the radio.
Okay.
Find out what you have heard as far as the freemen were concerned.
You know, I haven't heard anything about them.
It seems like they got swept under the carpet.
Let's see, what have I heard?
No, that thing has been said on TV.
Yup, yup, yup, yup.
Isn't that weird?
And that's the way they always do.
They sweep it right under the carpet so the public forgets about it.
And then they put something else in front of them to keep them entertained.
Yup.
I don't know.
something that's coming. It'll be a hundred and twenty three million, million miles. Right,
the closest object that size? Yep. Right.
That's really cool.
Well, you do.
I love your show.
You're a great guy and keep up the good work.
Thank you.
See you later.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi.
Mr. Bell?
Yes.
How you doing?
Fine.
Good.
I love the show.
Thank you.
I think the show's great.
I just have a quick question for you.
My name's Rob.
I'm calling from Council Bluffs, Iowa.
Yes.
And you don't have a lot of talk about ghosts on your show.
I don't?
Not that I've heard.
I'm sorry.
Um, I just have a quick, uh... We're doing a show on Ghosts Friday night.
Oh, really?
Yes.
Dr. Taff is going to be here.
Oh, wow.
And he is the, uh, was the principal investigator on the case that came to be known as, um... Well, actually, it was a movie called, uh, The Entity.
Wow.
Oh, that'll be great.
I'll be listening to that.
And if you've got a computer, do you?
Yeah, I was on your website last night, as a matter of fact.
Did you see the photographs?
Yeah, I did.
I downloaded the Jesus at the Vatican and... No, no, no.
I'm talking about the entity photographs.
Oh, yeah.
I did see those.
Yes, I did.
I didn't download those, but yeah, I did see them.
They're phenomenal.
Yes, they are.
Great.
I had a quick theory.
You know how your body produces an aura?
Yes.
They say most ghosts haunt when like a tragic death or some sort of major tragedy happens.
Right.
What I was thinking was is the body, your aura expands when some sort of tragedy or traumatic event happens and it has like an imprint on a dimension.
Yeah.
And then what like a ripple effect in water.
Right.
right up and right about the proper but a dimensional watered-down back
everyone i'm not sure what it goes to use and we could talk a little
bit about that thank you on the show of anybody would like to
you.
I've been giving that a lot of thought lately.
Whether... First of all, it seems absolutely obvious there is something real.
Something.
I don't know what.
Is it an echo of what was life?
Is it an echo, a repetitive, just constantly repeating echo of some traumatic event that occurred?
Is it actually the soul of a person still on Earth?
What is a ghost?
Is it a projection of a overly energized teenage girl's mind?
I don't know.
I don't know, but there's something.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Oh, thank you.
You're welcome.
I'm on.
You're on.
Yes, thank you.
Actually, I would like to give you my philosophy.
Your entire philosophy of life?
No, no.
Just a small one about how I feel, why, what's happening today.
Okay.
Well, I feel that if If there was more love in this world, actually you can tell how much love is in any society, any government, even the home place, the workplace, because if there's love there, there's a respecter of persons and you don't need so many laws and rules.
And when love is absent, then the rules have to take over.
And when you look at the workplace and the government, they just pass laws every day, just hundreds of them.
Okay, but sometimes unconditional love actually creates the need for rules.
And look at the family unit.
When you have a spoiled child, for example, you love that child.
You give that child everything that child wants.
And sometimes that child does not turn out so well because it got too much too easy.
Well, you can spoil a child by giving them too many material things, but I don't think you can spoil anything or anybody with too much love.
That I agree with.
But sometimes love has got to be tempered with inculcating responsibility and those kinds of ideas as well, and that's part of love.
Isn't it?
Well, I think if you... Parents are models for their children.
And if they really have unconditional love, and they have trust, and they have respect, this will be modeled for the children.
And they will learn this growing up.
But now, if they're false, like for instance, somebody calls up and the child says, hey mom, so and so is on the phone, and she says, tell them I'm not here.
We teach our children to lie.
We teach them not to respect.
That really is true.
Unfortunately, we do teach our children how to lie.
We serve as an example.
Yes.
You're right.
Thank you very much for the call, and take care.
East of the Rockies, she is right.
You're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, good evening.
Good morning, I'm sorry.
That's all right.
Whatever it is.
Yes.
You know, I find it quite fascinating.
On this Gulf War Syndrome, the first person to bring it out in the media was Some talk show guy, I can't think of his name right now.
However, on the national screen, when it came out during the primaries, this is the same time that Colin Powell went into hiding, if you think back.
Basically, that's about right.
Yes.
And the man that I truly honored, I mean, practically worshipped, was Bush.
And now I have to kind of think about...
You know, don't do it, read my lips.
It's just been a phenomenon.
And I really don't want to say much more than that, but with all the research that I've done on this here, there's more in pointing the finger than you can far imagine.
It's unbelievable.
Yeah.
Thanks for taking my call.
Thank you for making it.
Have a good morning.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello.
Hello, Art.
Yes?
Yes, this is Rob in Renton.
Hi, Rob.
Hi.
This is great because I just shut my radio off and you were talking about something else.
Anyways, yeah, I was interested in what happened to your arts parts and what the results were on that.
Do you listen to Dreamland?
Yes, I do.
Okay.
Did you hear the report last Sunday on that?
Well, I missed part of last week's show.
I see.
Well, right now, they're doing experiments, uh, to try and determine, um, if there is a weight or mass reduction, uh, with regard to the parts, uh, when subjected to high voltage, and they believe they have measured a weight reduction or a mass reduction.
Right.
And, um, so we are awaiting those results.
It's a very difficult test.
That is so amazing.
You know, I've, uh, believed in, uh, Pretty much UFOs most of my life.
There was a flat back in 1968 when I was a kid and I remember me and my brothers and my sisters, my mom was in the den and I heard something about it on the news and there was activity in the sky but you know I was too young to understand but I just barely remember that and I wondered you know there was a big setting in that area at that time.
So, it's pretty interesting.
Keep up the good work, and I hope, you know, you get some results and all that stuff on the park.
All right, my friend.
Thank you.
They remain anomalous through an incredible amount of testing.
So, even though you're not hearing anything right now, some of the tests they're doing are very difficult.
Very difficult.
And you have to be very careful with the results that you announce because of the implications.
So they are being very careful.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, good morning.
This is David from Chicago.
Hi, David.
Couldn't help but remember something I've been told.
A very wise person a few years ago with regard to Bush, and that is that Bush would be found in the near future to be the most evil person who ever ran the country.
And I have to believe after having heard all this material about the Gulf War illness that his head of the CIA, and I believe he was still acting head of it even as president, that he knew damn well that we were Giving the troops a pill approved wrongly by the FDA.
Alright, look.
Let's assume, for the sake of our discussion, that you're correct.
Alright?
That Bush knew this.
That we were, in effect, poisoning our own troops.
For whatever crazy reason we'd want to do that.
Not necessarily poisoning our own troops, but that it was an extremely risky thing.
Net effect.
Alright, even risky.
Uh, terribly risky.
Um, George Bush may be a lot of things, but I don't think he, uh, would take unnecessary chances with our own people, but let's say he did.
Uh, we have now had President Clinton for how long?
Long time, huh?
Yep.
Second term.
About to be inaugurated again, right?
Uh-huh.
Uh, he's privy to the same kind of secret information that George Bush was.
So he would have to be part of the cover-up?
I don't believe that he would be privy anywhere to the same degree that Bush's head of the CIA was.
And I have to believe that there's a major difference in character, in spite of the flaws.
I don't think there's... there may be a difference in character.
Yeah, they're not the same men.
Not at all.
But you know, the policies are about the same.
I also happen to believe that, uh, Bush must have known, as head of the CIA, about the secret testing on the public that's been going on since the end of World War II.
And it's really all started with the... And you don't think that Bill Clinton knows about that?
Again, not in the same way, and I don't think he had anywhere near the same influence.
What about Ronald Reagan?
To stop it.
Think Ronald Reagan knew?
I think he was more privy to knowing it than Clinton.
Really?
How about Jimmy Carter?
Carter, I'm not sure of.
I think he was the most intelligent person we had in Washington, and I think that's one of the reasons he was never re-elected.
People were so scared of him with his not needing to go looking for the answers to other people like the ordinary presidents do.
I'm sorry, but thank you very much for the call.
I see a very small amount of difference in the way recent presidents have run the country.
There are large differences in the way they campaign.
Big differences.
And when they don't have big, real differences, they find small, insignificant, dumb differences to argue about.
But when any of them get into the White House, they all do roughly the same thing.
I'm sorry, but I have come to believe that.
And in this last election, I saw less difference than in any prior election, and I believe in the next one, there will be even less difference.
That's me.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
Alright, it's open lines tonight.
Anything you guys want to talk about is fair game, and I mean anything under the sun or the moon.
Which is not out right now.
I went out last night and I looked and I looked and I couldn't even find Mars.
very disappointed well I think it's time to get ready
to realize just what I have found I have been only half of what I am
music playing...
music playing...
Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired January 8th, 1997.
Here again I am, top of the morning to everybody.
Great to be here.
Really is great to be here.
Very enjoyable.
I kind of like it when we're going anywhere, and that's what we're doing this morning.
Anywhere you want to go is fine by me.
It's 1997 on Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Alright, east of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Yes, Art, this is Pan in Nashville.
Yes, sir.
And I'm as fond of the mystical explanation of changes in society as anyone.
But I noticed that people seem to be missing a very tangible, obvious cause for the changes in our society.
Which is that for the 10,000 years preceding the 1900s, we were an agricultural-based society.
And in the subsequent 100 years, less than 100 years, we have completely transformed ourselves into an information-based society.
And the consequences are tremendous.
With respect to changes in social patterns, in religions, in government, I find people with their traditional family values are trying to go back to an agricultural base.
But what we need to be doing is looking forward and figuring out what this new economic base is going to produce in terms of social forms.
Well, what do you think?
Well, I don't have a lot of tangible answers.
I think what we need to do is consciously derive our social forms.
Our social forms prior to this have been sort of accrued through traditional practices and it may be that we've reached the point where we can actually consciously decide what our forms are going to be.
I think the 60s were an example With the communes and some of the alternative lifestyles of a tentative experiment and thrust in that direction, which didn't really work very well.
Why do you think it did not work?
Well, certainly partially because it was embedded in a larger society, which had all the traditional restraints with it.
It's very hard to grow a new flower in the midst of an old weed patch.
Let me tell you, thank you, let's talk about that a little bit.
I think I know why communes did not work.
And I believe it is because it is an unnatural unit.
And that when you get many people together, as in a commune, eventually cliques form, a little political groups within form, differences manifest, And as we can have differences between a man and a wife, multiply that by many times.
Just as if... and this goes back to what I was talking about with regard to the Internet.
I'm still thinking about that.
If you have a committee of three people who are set on a task to accomplish something, they're likely going to get it done.
If you have a committee of thirty They're not going to get very much done.
If you have a committee of 3,000, forget it.
They're going to be utterly paralyzed.
And I think that's why the idea of communes never worked.
Too many cooks in the kitchen.
Put simply.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
Hello?
Hello.
Hi.
Art, I'd like to make a couple of quick points.
Sure.
One is I think I can explain ghosts.
All right.
I believe, as you do, that there is no time.
It's the human construct.
We're all trapped in the eternal here and now.
Right.
But there is a multitude of dimensions coexisting, and what a ghost is, is a bleed-through from what we would call the past, but it's actually a coexisting experience.
In other words, at certain places, the past can bleed through into the present.
What do you think?
I think that may be so, and I think at times even the future may leak through to the present.
That time is, you know, as I've said it a million times, I think it's our invention, and that time is something we don't really quite understand, and that there could be feed-through, in effect, from both directions.
Yes, I believe that could be true.
And I'd also like to address your theory on the quickening.
Mm-hmm.
I believe what that is is a form of... it's a media-induced perception.
For example, if you walked out of your house and had never read a newspaper, watched a TV show, heard a radio show, seen a movie, would you think the world was going to hell in a handbasket?
No, you wouldn't, because you'd walk outside, it'd be a beautiful day, it's not even... I don't know.
I don't know about that, sir.
If you had not been exposed to the media, and you took a day trip through L.A., what kind of impressions do you think you'd have by the end of the day?
Oh, that it was a horribly overcrowded city.
But how often do you actually see a crime in progress?
Not frequently.
But as you approach your fellow loving, caring citizens for help, say, let's say you were helpless, then you would be.
Because you wouldn't know anything about the city.
And you would approach people and try to get them to help you, right?
How much help do you think you'd get?
That's due to a lack of spirituality, and I'm not talking religion.
I'm talking the oneness that we've lost in seeing ourselves in our fellow man.
Well, then I'm afraid your theory is destroyed.
Sorry about that.
Thank you very much for the call, though.
The quickening is real.
The social deterioration, the economic deterioration.
Do you know how many people today have no regard for money whatsoever, and they go out and get every credit card they can lay their hands on, run them all up to the limit, and then declare bankruptcy?
Do you know how many people are doing that today?
Where do you think they learned that kind of behavior?
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello, uh, let me turn the radio down.
Hello, Art.
Hi.
Um, I got a couple things.
Um, you know how you talk about, uh, to legalize marijuana?
Decriminalize, yes.
Okay, decri- oh, that's the best word, yeah.
Decriminalize.
I was gonna say that, like, alcohol.
It's not legal, you know, for a little kid to go buy it.
There's, there's restrictions and stuff of that nature on alcohol.
Right.
And I was going to talk about the marijuana like that, you know, put your restrictions on it, and put your rules and regulations on it, and your taxes, but that's the only way that the government can make their money.
Right now, they can't make their money if they legalize it, alright?
Because then you got the tobacco company, so if they switch from tobacco, you know, over to dope, they can make their money.
A lot of people grow it in their backyards.
Yeah, well that's true too.
And there's more stuff like, you don't hear about people going out and buying a joint and killing somebody over a joint.
You hear them going out and killing somebody for a $5 rock, you know, a piece of cocaine.
So you got population control.
The government says, you know, hey, they're out killing people.
It's one less person.
You know, most people that smoke cocaine and do that hard drug, they're on the low toll and poll anyway.
So, in a way, you've got population control there, too.
In a way, thank you.
There are a lot of people who believe the conspiratorial view that the government, to control the people, has been doing two things.
One, introducing drugs to the population, particularly so with regard to the black population, and then fostering a false war against it.
I don't necessarily believe in all of that.
Because the government is not tipping the hands, the government is not snorting the coke, nor shooting the heroin.
It is the people that are doing that.
East of the Rockies, no marketplace, and they couldn't possibly do it, could they?
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
I've got a couple of points for you.
Alright.
Calling from Indiana.
Yes, sir.
First of all, on the communes, I think that a big part of it, why things didn't work out too well, is that there's too many takers and not enough givers.
Now at Communion you suspect you're going to have a lot more givers than takers because they're self-selected that way, but over the long run it just seems like there's too many takers and not enough givers and the level of commitment is too low so that you don't have the stick-to-it-iveness and the continuity that you need.
That's part of it, sir, but any group you get together for a cause, the very best of causes, I mean even church groups, they begin to form little cliques and political advocacy groups and then there begins to be a war within.
It's natural.
I've seen that happen to some extent.
My own experience is that the two things I mentioned are the bigger cause, but it's not necessarily that way universally.
The other thing I wanted to bring up is when we're talking about whether or not we should have the right to commit suicide and that sort of thing, the one thing I don't hear anybody bring up is that when a person gets sufficiently disabled that they're causing a great load on society.
And with our technology, we can make that an enormous load very, very quickly, just to maintain a person.
If I was in that situation, I would feel like if I'm not doing anybody any good, and people are just committing resources to me, what good is that?
Perhaps not at all, but that ought to be your judgment.
And look, I am enough of a libertarian That no matter how I personally feel about the issue of suicide, doctor-assisted or otherwise, I know one thing for absolute sure, and that is, it is not the government's business.
It's not their business.
It's yours.
And if you want to go to a physician, or several, and have them assist you in some way to avoid the final painful, agonized days of a fatal illness, then dammit, it's your choice.
And that of the doctor.
Not all doctors should do it, nor would they.
But it sure isn't the government's business.
You know, I listen to a lot of so-called Republicans with libertarian tendencies.
And they're all the time for smaller government and less regulation.
See, I'm going to start sounding just like Harry Brown.
But when it really comes down to the moral issues that they cherish or claim to, then they're all set to make all the laws in the world to get in your face.
And this is one area where it's a very good example.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Yeah, good morning.
Good morning.
Yeah, I'm calling about your thing on the webpage for the biological warfare.
Yes.
Yeah, I took a copy of that down to my congressman a couple weeks ago.
Was your congressman surprised?
Actually, he wrote back and said he didn't know anything about it.
But he would check into it.
And today I got a letter from him.
Yes.
For an envelope.
Yes.
And it was Dan Quayle who put that in there.
Dan Quayle?
Yeah.
Great.
Because I guess they were doing tests in Fort Wayne, Indiana for like three years.
Good.
When they didn't tell anybody, so you had to put in.
But he sent me a whole bunch of other stuff.
I guess they did, like, I want to say here, oh, 239 open air biological warfare tests.
Great.
Yeah, between 1949 and 69.
Well, maybe, well, you say Indiana, huh?
Dan Quayle had a lot of trouble with spelling, you know.
Yeah, well, Indiana wasn't the only place.
There's like Alaska, Florida, San Francisco, Washington, D.C.
And they also said they did it on the subways of the bigger cities, too.
Wouldn't surprise me.
My cat's here at Clamlow, where are we?
He also sent me something here from the Congressional Library.
It's called Clause of Secrecy.
The Army's Germ Warfare Test for Populated Areas by Leonard A. Cole.
And he had a lot of stuff in there about the same thing, about the hearings they had in 77.
I hear somebody else's cat.
And he said one of the questions they asked the military was, after they did all these tests,
what did they actually find out the long-term effects was?
They said, well nobody ever bothered to check it out.
They weren't interested in that part.
Well, I would think they would be, thank you.
Any spraying they would do, any sort of test on the civilian population, you would think they would track all the local medical records very carefully.
Trying to determine what the long-term effects of whatever it is they're testing on us, uh, would be.
I can almost see them now.
Well, Harry, what do you want to do today?
Well, how about New Orleans?
We'll try some of this purple stuff.
You know, we haven't tried the purple stuff yet.
We'll spray a little bit of that and track it for a while, huh?
There's some good federal dollars going to work.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, Eric.
Yes, sir.
Gee, I've listened to you since probably the mid-eighties.
Long time.
Long time.
I started in the state of Washington and now I live in the Englewood, Colorado area.
I see.
First time I've ever gotten through.
Well, there you go.
Now I can buy a real puck.
But I just wanted to thank you for your years of enjoyment.
I'm kind of like you.
Some of the things that you do.
We have a talk show host up here that really thinks you're nuts.
But he doesn't listen.
I'm surprised they don't have real talks.
Well, there's a good reason for that.
A lot of them think I'm nuts or say I'm nuts, and it's because they don't understand what I'm doing, they don't understand why it's popular, and therefore it is, to them, threatening.
So, you know, I've given up a long time ago on the people taking pot shots at me.
Let them take pot shots.
Who cares?
I remember a fellow from Colorado that called you with a strange name of Zoo Hair.
Vaguely.
Vaguely.
Yes.
Well, why don't we wish him a happy marriage?
He just got married.
He's a fairly young guy.
He's about 23.
Happy marriage to you!
He's a friend of mine.
All right, my friend.
Thank you very much.
And again, you know, nothing bothers me less than all these shots that are being taken at me.
As a matter of fact, I kind of consider it a badge of honor.
I love open line talk radio.
Sure, it's strange.
Sure, you hear from the fringe element, the strange folks out there.
Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.
But it's live, It's unscreened, and it's as real as it gets.
And when some of the other talk show hosts out there figure out that they don't have to have a little TV screen in front of them with a bunch of little soldiers lined up who are either going to agree with them or disagree with them, but have been carefully screened to be talking about what they want to talk about, and generally to agree with them, When they figure out they can do a talk show without having all of that, they'll do a better talk show.
Until then, they're going to feel threatened.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
Here's a magazine that's the latest issue of Extra.
And the latest issue of Covert Action Quarterly.
I guess the only place you can get them is like a bookstore.
Excuse me, Covert Action Quarterly?
Yes, and Extra.
And Extra is a media watchdog group that really documents how the corporate establishment media has been really suppressing any kind of evidence that would embarrass the CIA, the military-industrial complex, that really interlocks and runs that very same media.
Some of the stuff you've been talking about Over the years, the chemical and biological experiments by the CIA and the Pentagon on people, and the latest here is this CIA crack cocaine, ContraLink, where the San Jose Mercury News abrupt... Yeah, but whatever happened to that story?
What has happened to it is, and they documented it in this Extra magazine, is the leading media, many of them with connections to the CIA themselves, And this is documented by people like Carl Bernstein and others who wrote back in Rolling Stone in the 70s that the New York Times, the Washington Post, had very close ties over the last 50 years with the CIA.
They have provided cover to the CIA.
They've spiked stories for the CIA, covered up other stories, tried to discredit other stories.
And it points out that in this latest case, they really made a fierce counterattack to try to Discredit this story of the CIA-Contra cocaine connection, which has been very well documented, going all the way back to the Kerry Commission, which documented this.
Even the investigation by the Costa Rican government and their commission, in which they found that Oliver North, the U.S.
Ambassador of Point Dexter C. Cord, and the CIA Station Chief were all implicated in this Uh, drug-running ring to finance the Contra attack against Nicaragua.
Well, this was, uh, even back then.
Okay, see, sir, sir, sir, sir.
Um, see, I don't buy all of that.
I'm glad you're welcome to air it if you so desire.
But I don't buy all of that.
Ollie North knowingly importing cocaine?
Uh-uh.
Pilots who flew down there bringing back cocaine on their own?
Sure.
I buy that.
Uh, Poindexter, uh, involved in bringing in cocaine?
No.
I don't buy that.
So at the highest levels, I don't buy that it was a policy.
Did it happen?
Yes, it may have.
Were pilots involved bringing, uh, otherwise empty planes back with drugs?
Sure!
I bet they were!
But was it a policy of the U.S.
government to do it?
No.
I do not believe that.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Uh, yeah, R. Phil?
Yes, sir!
Hey!
I've been trying for days to get through.
Well, you've got me, but the program is ending.
Oh, I'd just like to say that I like your show.
It's very interesting.
Where are you?
I'm calling from Cle Elum, Washington.
Cle Elum, Washington.
All right, so say goodnight, America.
Okay, goodnight, America.
That's it, folks.
Goodnight, Canada.
Goodnight, Cosmo.
See you tomorrow night.
Open lines, I think.
Tomorrow night.
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