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Dec. 6, 1996 - Art Bell

01:19:24

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Hale-Bopp - Whitley Strieber - Chuck Shramek

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18:20

whitley strieber

32:12

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		877-9799.
		Well, all right.
		Now, once again, here is Whitley Striber.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Whitley?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Hi, how are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
		What a surprise.
		I would like to introduce to you the man who I guess began all of this in Houston, Texas.
		He is Chuck Schramick.
		Chuck, are you there?
unidentified		I'm here, all right.
unidentified		Hi, Whitley.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Hi, how are you, Chuck?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I'm very pleased to meet you.
unidentified		Oh, I'm very pleased to talk to you, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A couple of Texans, actually.
		Actually, yeah.
		Chuck, I guess it's been a long, tough odyssey for you.
unidentified		Well, it has.
		You know, it was at first.
		I went through a week there of nobody believing me, and I was kind of dangling out there alone.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I know the feeling, Chuck.
		I was in that position about 10 years ago, very unexpectedly, and I did not know it took courage.
		I didn't know that would be needed.
		It was very surprising to me at the time.
unidentified		Yeah, and like you, Whitley, I have a son, 18 years old now.
		And I realized, well, geez, if the whole truth comes out, it's going to be strange.
		Because I knew at first that I was looking at something very, very odd here.
		And if the whole truth did come out, I'd have to say, well, it's really odd.
		It's something I've never seen before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chuck, how many photographs did you take?
unidentified		161.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Have you heard the early part of the show, Chuck?
unidentified		No, I'm sorry.
		I fell asleep.
		I tasted it.
		I'll hear it later.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me, just for you and for the listeners who have not heard, let me reiterate a proposal I have.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		We were talking to another amateur astronomer, Ivan Dyer, in L.A., who has been doing this for 45 years and is a real, very much of an expert in terms of the equipment he possesses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Invented the lisarium.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		He's a good one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		A real open-minded type of person.
		He's not going to be blinded by paradigms that he doesn't want to see broken.
		And what we're interested in is the possibility of assembling a committee of, say, about five people like that.
		I know another one in New York who is more of an amateur astrophysicist than astronomer, Dr. John Gleidman, who has the same kind of open mindset.
		He's going to tell it like he sees it pretty much.
		To look at your photographs and come to independent opinions about what they show.
		And then to come together, maybe, on the program and submit reports about what they feel these photographs represent.
		And then we would have, along with you, a substantial group of amateur experts who would not be threatened by the danger of losing their livelihoods if they made statements about this and would not be blinded by a paradigm that they're afraid to break.
		What do you say to doing something like that?
unidentified		I'd be open to doing something like that.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, great, because I can certainly arrange to have the, I know with that many pictures, there'd be some costs involved in reproducing pictures and so on and so forth and getting them moved around and phone calls, and I can certainly make sure that all of those costs are taken care of.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Chuck, let's clear something up for the audience, too, because all of the publicity surrounding Hailbop, since your images, every story that has come out literally in newspapers from Albuquerque to Phoenix to San Jose to you name it, an Associated Press story, MSNBC did a front page story on it and so forth and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They all try to take it on by referring only to your photograph.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		The one picture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One's the key.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The one picture.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they try to debunk it with that, and, you know, the obvious quick answer, it was a star.
		Chuck was mistaken.
		And there was indeed a software error.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah, there is a star there.
		But a couple of things.
		I went back and reimaged the area, and I saw the star, and it's very dim there.
		Another thing is the pictures I took, the 161 pictures, some of the, they vary in exposure anywhere from one to five seconds.
		I was snapping all sorts of different times on there.
		In every case, that thing, the companion, is the same size.
		And a star would have grown in size.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Why would a star have grown in size?
unidentified		The exposure would have made the image grow larger and larger as the pixel sort of spread out there.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see, yes.
unidentified		With the length of exposure.
unidentified		And another thing I noticed, this is really something to see NASA and JPL actually go out of their way to debunk an amateur astronomer in Houston, Texas.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		To me, that was incidentally, when NASA and JPL got in on it, that was the tip-off that I saw the old cover-up, we must not let the public know there's anything unusual in the universe coming into play.
		Because as soon as I thought to myself, my Lord, how must he feel?
		Here's an amateur astronomer with a very legitimate and straightforward discovery who finds instead that the whole that they're all throwing dynamite at him for no apparent reason.
		It must be a very weird experience.
unidentified		It is.
		I'm to the point now where I'm just kind of sitting back and enjoying it.
		At first, I was trying to answer every email, and I was answering maybe up to 20 or 30 an hour.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I know from experience that no matter how good your answer, it will never be accepted.
unidentified		Well, that's why I finally came to that conclusion.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't really matter.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		You don't need to answer it.
unidentified		and one thing, the JPL says that CCDs are more sensitive to orange and the lower light waves, which is very true because this supposedly was an orange or red star there.
		But what they never asked me, and what has never come out, is I shot that through two filters, a CCD filter and a green filter.
		So that star should have been very, very thin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And indeed, on reimaging it was, right?
unidentified		I could hardly find it.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Chuck, let me ask you this.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Is there enough cometary motion in these pictures for the perspective against the star field to have changed at all?
unidentified		I've thought of that and just done some rough figures in my head.
unidentified		It probably only moved up with pixels, and I don't think it would be anything definitive, but it might show up.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Have you tried to image it again?
unidentified		The comet?
		Yeah.
		Oddly, that's another odd aspect of my story, Whitley.
		And I was so driven to get out there night after night after night.
		I mean, for months I was out there.
		And it's almost as if my job's over.
		And I have not gone back out and imaged the comet.
		Another factor is that where I live here, the comet window of opportunity was getting shorter and shorter and shorter.
		And it was really about 20 minutes or so when that picture was taken.
		Just because of my trees and the position of my house going at.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, it's getting pretty low on the horizon.
unidentified		Yeah, well, I can't even see it from where I live.
unidentified		Now I'd have to go outside of town and get a good clear western horizon view.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		Well, I think even your photograph is not that easily debunked.
		But when you're talking to a newspaper, it is easily debunked.
		They just say, oh, it was a star.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they're not there to deliver the facts.
		They're there to debunk.
		So if you come up with a good explanation for whatever debunking method they've chosen, then they're simply going to choose another.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		then one other thing, Chuck, there is new information that you didn't hear because you didn't hear the first part of the program, but Whitley, earlier in the week, contacted the British...
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		The Royal Astronomical Observatory in Greenwich.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And early in the week, you'll be interested to know, Chuck, they admitted to Whitley on the phone, yes, there is an object there.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Quite cheerfully.
		Oh, yes, we're aware of that, and we're looking into it, was the phrase.
		I guess you could say at a pinch that the man was simply saying they were aware of the story, but I don't think so.
		The way the conversation ran, it was clear that they were aware of the object, no matter what they may say in retrospect.
		At the time I first talked to them, they were aware of the object, in my opinion.
		That's what I was being told.
unidentified		It's interesting to see the backtracking done.
		Of course, I wouldn't have read your comments, Whitley, on the Japanese observatory.
		And that odd shuffle.
		So there's something going on.
		And, you know, I followed the web.
		I sensed back in May that there's something going on here because the good pictures started disappearing.
		The observatories were posting pictures from smaller and smaller telescopes.
		In fact, the night that a lot of this broke, the night of your famous Thanksgiving broadcast, I noticed that the JPL Weber Comet homepage, they threw up a picture, a new picture, and they hadn't had one on there since August.
		They threw up a new picture, but it was from the observatory in Slovenia using a not comparable to mine.
		I thought, I ought to donate my telescope to Slovenia.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible.
		That I did not know, Chuck.
		I mean, in other words, what you're saying is the community has been trying to blind us to the actual appearance of this comet.
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Now, I have to tell you that to any astronomer who's participating in this and who's listening to this program, and I know from my email that a lot of you are listening to it, you need really to look at the morality of that.
		That is not a moral act at all.
		Not in any way.
		It is, in fact, a form of lie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, and then there's even more evidence.
		Again, the so-called Hailbop Eyes that are on the Hailbop site itself, to the best of my knowledge, have not been explained, Chuck.
		What about you?
unidentified		No, I've not heard it.
		And, you know, that was one of the first thoughts that went through my mind when I saw that thing there.
		Because I was aware of that Hailbop Eyes picture for several months.
		In fact, I had a link from my page to the site page.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it shows an object every bit as bright.
		Maybe you're a better judge of this than I am.
		I'm just a layman.
		But I look at it, and to me, it looks like two objects of equal size and brightness.
unidentified		It's pretty unmistakable.
		And I have enough experience.
		And of course, if you even see the star, if you can see the star background there, and it's literally within 10 minutes, the thing was there, and 10 minutes later, it wasn't there.
		And the separation on the nucleus to that eye, you're talking about a distance there that is probably comparable from the Earth to the Moon, or maybe at least half that distance.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		So that's a big on distance scales like that over a period of 10 minutes?
unidentified		Yeah, it's amazing.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Word.
unidentified		It's amazing.
unidentified		And the scale on my picture is similar, about the same type of distance there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's hard for the casual observer or the layman to know because some of them are closer, zoomed in, some are farther away.
		Now, we can talk about, though we can't yet post the photograph from the top 10 university astronomer.
		But it shows the anomalous object almost damn near meshed with Halebop.
		It actually overlaps a little bit.
		It's quite remarkable.
		And Whitley, you've got that.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right.
		It's right behind Haleboph inside the corona of the comet.
		It couldn't be very far away At all, even probably within 100,000 miles of the coma.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's getting to the point where we've got photographs from at least half a dozen sources, all showing this anomalous object.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To me, that adds up to evidence that demands some kind of verdict.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Some kind of sane response from the astronomical community rather than what we've gotten so far, which has not been adequate.
unidentified		And I think combined, you know, in my mind, the other major factor, I smelled a cover-up before any of this started and was wondering and wondering aloud, where are the good pictures?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		For example, the Hubble has imaged this a number of times, or supposed to have imaged it in 1996, but practically nothing has been released.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I think nothing since, what, October, Chuck?
unidentified		Well, they have put up some new ones, but they've obviously jacked down the resolution, zoomed out on them.
unidentified		They hurriedly put up some later ones.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And it's a very good thing.
		And the September 6th one was put up, and I was sent a very condescending piece of email that I should take a look at it immediately, which I did.
		And I was struck by the fact that it was so poor compared to the usual Hubble imagery.
unidentified		Right.
		They must have blown it down considerably.
		Or that was my initial impression when I saw it.
		I hate to make assumptions about their work like they have about mine.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, from a layman's point of view, it doesn't look like a Hubble image at all.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It looks like something taken from a terrestrial telescope.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you holding up, Chuck?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people don't know it, but even your career was in some jeopardy.
unidentified		Well, that was the rumors, but the truth when I got back and talked to all the parties involved face-to-face is I'm fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's okay.
unidentified		I'll be back on here Tuesday morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, we are glad to hear it, and we will be in contact with you regarding those photographs.
		Keep them safe.
unidentified		They're safe in many spots.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
		Smart guy.
		Thank you very much, Chuck.
unidentified		Thank you, Art and Whitley.
unidentified		Pleasure to talk to both of you.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Pleasure to meet you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, there's the man who started it all, Chuck Schramack.
		And it sounds as though he's doing okay and back to work and so forth and so on.
		But I thought a lot of what he just said was rather quite revealing.
		And I think the people who say it was just a star really have got to examine his photographs of the same area taken under the same conditions, reimaged where there is just a star and nothing even remotely like what he originally imaged.
		And then if they can answer that, then they've got to answer at least five more photographs from various locations that seem to show the same thing.
		At any rate, there we are.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, he has a very ample supply of photographic evidence, and I'm quite sure that a lot can be derived from the photographs that he can offer.
		All right, so we'll proceed with this committee.
		You bet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Whitley Streeber and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I appreciate you waiting for me.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in St. Louis, Missouri.
		My name is Justin.
		Okay.
		Well, first of all, I want to apologize for the oh wows.
		I haven't had the opportunity to talk to you on the earlier year, actually.
		This is the second time I've called you.
		Unfortunately, Chuck's not here.
		I can't talk to him now.
		But Whitley, I have a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Now, there are a lot of people out there who say, who knows what the hell this thing is, but do you have anything?
unidentified		What do you think this thing is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's a straight-out question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whitley, what do you think it is?
unidentified		Hunches.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		That's what I can give you at this point.
		I cannot tell you what it is.
		I cannot make any thoughts, David.
		I have a hunch that this does have something to do with the whole gamut of strange things that we have been observing over the past 50 years, from UFOs to close encounters to crop circles and any number of other different anomalous things that appear to be an attempt on the part of an intelligence that is very,
		very different from ours in many respects to communicate with us and to make us aware of its presence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Whitley, hold it right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
unidentified		This is CBC.
		Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		That's 702-727-1295.
		First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am.
		A few of the year's best Christmas presents still available.
		They are the Beijing Radio.
unidentified		It's simple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is 8.30 Monday morning.
		The number is 1-800-522-8863.
		That's 1-800-522-8863.
		Do it before they are gone.
		The price, by the way, is going to go up.
		It's $109.95, and that includes shipping, getting it to you, an outrageous price.
		They're selling for $150 elsewhere if you can find them.
		1-800-522-8863.
		Are you tired?
		Need more energy?
		In Phoenix, the stonewalling and obfuscation by astronomers and scientists about Hellbop is to be expected.
		The anomalies that they find challenge Their beliefs.
		The problem arises from their belief that they know how the universe works and that it is impossible for other beings to traverse the vast distances of space.
		I submit for your consideration, remember basic algebra, remember how many exceptions, special cases, fudge factors there were.
		Well, if you extrapolate those fudge factors, by the time you get to quantum mechanics and astrophysics, I think the scientific explanations may be just a bit off.
		And when you begin to challenge a set of beliefs that people have built their identity on, you are basically challenging their religious dogma.
		Ask Galileo.
		What do you think about that, Whitley?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, they nearly lit Galileo up, and I think you and I and people like us are very fortunate that burning at the stake is gone out of fashion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we'd already be toast.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		We'd already be, absolutely, we'd be toast.
		I'd like to get back to this question.
		Is this the familiar visitors or not?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		This is a real interesting one, and I think it, here's why I think it may be.
		Back in the, arguably, they showed up, at least they emerged into our more ordinary world back in the 40s and late 40s and early 50s.
		There's a certain amount of evidence at that time, judging from what happened in July of 1952 over Washington, that there was some kind of an attempt going on to communicate with the government.
		Maybe succeeded, maybe failed.
		In either case, after that, they went underground and they made a direct appeal to individuals.
		They began to approach the individual in his most secret, most intimate places, in his home, in his bed, in the middle of the night, penetrating the sexual body of mankind and appealing to the psyche of mankind, as we've discussed earlier, in two totally different ways.
		Now, here this object comes, and it's a totally different kind of communication, but one that fits that whole pattern, because here it is suddenly appealing for the first time to another kind of social institution, the scientific community, and doing it publicly.
		And if they are trying to develop some means of communicating with us and of not simply staring across space at each other like we do with the dolphins and not really know what's going on in the other's mind, but really participating in our lives and us in theirs, it's a logical next step to attempt.
		Can they break through the paradigm that locks this community into its belief system?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think clearly, Whitley, we are more approachable than our government is.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, sure.
		The ordinary individual, actually, has, I've said it many times from reading all the letters I've gotten.
		The ordinary person who has this experience, whether they have a good experience or a bad experience, they're much more capable of dealing with it than the authorities.
		The authorities are the ones who are scared.
		We're not, actually.
		We're much less scared than the...
		I think that the average man is far less frightened than the average general.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you can fold into that the astronomical community based on what we've told the audience tonight, what we know to be true.
		They're just frightened out of their wits.
		All right.
		Everybody wants to talk to you.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Whitley, Streeber, and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello.
		My name is Meadowsuite.
		Thank you for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Meadowsuite, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What a name.
unidentified		Thank you.
		I wanted to ask you, Whitley, and also Art.
		First of all, I wanted to tell you briefly, this is the first time I've ever been public about this, but I've been contacting and have been visited on a regular basis for consciously for a little over a year now, October 9th and 10th of 1995, while I was camping on Mount Shasta with a friend.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		You're not alone in that, in two ways.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people on Mount Shasta, and in the past year, many more people having conscious encounters than before.
unidentified		It's amazing how difficult it has been for me to find people to speak with about this that have had personal experiences themselves.
		So it's been a real personal growth.
		And I'm writing a book because I channel with them currently also.
		And I've seen them physically and felt them physically.
		And I will be explaining everything in my book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Well, we'll look forward to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess a lot of people who have these kinds of experiences, as you did, Whitley, feel compelled to relate them.
		I mean, you did it.
		You wrote a book?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		I did it because I just thought it was, you know, it was really a scary experience, but goodness, it was such a fun adventure, too.
		I mean, I thought the book would be popular.
		That's why I wrote it.
		I mean, I didn't know how popular, certainly, but I had no idea that there would be all the condemnation and sort of posturing that went on, actually.
		It was amazing.
		And so I'm not surprised to see what's happening with the astronomical community.
		And it's interesting that there's never, in that community, there's been very little suggestion that this is connected with aliens in any way, at least not overtly.
		The response is the same because the object is unexpected.
		And that is the real problem.
		It's not that they're afraid of aliens.
		It's that they can't handle what they don't expect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, we're being very hard on them, but with what goes on in the astronomical community, I do understand.
		In other words, Whitley Streeber can be public about this.
		You're not going to lose your career.
		You taught your career's built on this sort of thing.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is now, but I lost the career I had in all the friends and all the social contacts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there you are.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I lost.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I ended up, I mean, even economically, we suffered terribly from this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		But now you're in a position where you can speak out without great fear.
		No.
		Professor Brown, same deal.
		He's tenured.
		They might try to get him, but he's tenured.
		You know, he's fairly safe.
		And then there's Art Bell.
		I'm too crazy to care.
		I'm getting to the point where I just don't care, so I can do this kind of thing.
		And maybe to a lesser degree, prudence, because of her situation.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		But she's more fragile.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And I think that that's a whole different situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I do too.
		But the three of us, we can speak out without great fear.
		Now, if you're inside, if you're an astronomer and you speak out, you're risking everything.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		You're risking your career.
		And a man who has been trained in astronomy, what is he going to do with his life if he can't do astronomy?
		The answer is he's going to flip hamburgers.
		I mean, it's really, it's a tough call because those guys have a long way to fall if they're pushed out of the net.
		Really do.
		They really do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they're careful.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		They have to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I don't blame them.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Whitley, Streeber, and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yes, Art and Whitley.
		It's been an absolutely incredible program.
		I'm calling from just outside of Boston in Massachusetts.
		My name is Ben.
		And I've got a few quick things I want to say.
		I'll make them really fast.
		You were talking about Galileo a little while back and how he was castigated and all.
		I think we're forgetting, we lose sight often that what we're dealing with in big time religion, big time astronomy, you might say, is a form of religion in itself.
		And in a sense, we're taking on something somewhat similar to, let's say, the Catholic Church or something.
		There are a lot of really deep-set orthodox precepts that are going to have to be just very gently and gradually dislodged, and it's not going to be something that happens precipitously.
		Another thing I wanted to say was just that I think we're all tending to focus too much on trying to get approval from these very same sources with this belief that somehow this will give us, the people that perceive this thing in a different sort of way, more credence.
		We don't need their approval.
		We need to go ahead.
		And they're the caboose in this whole thing.
		We can march ahead.
		And it really doesn't matter whether they approve or agree or not.
		You know, I'm tired of holding back to wait for these cabooses to catch up to us.
		Let them take their own feet because they get left behind in the dust.
		So be it.
		So what?
		Third thing I just want to mention really quickly is back maybe half an hour ago as I was listening to you folks, my mind all of a sudden flashed on something that I've heard in the past.
		An author, Zachariah Sitchin, has written a number of books.
		I've never read any of them, much to my regret, but I've heard him interviewed a number of times, and he seems to talk about some kind of a planet-like object that returns to this region of space, you know, this region around Earth, about once every 3,000 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		We'll hold it there.
		Go ahead.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Everybody who has not read Zechariah Sitchin's book, The Twelfth Planet, ought to go out and pick up a copy, go to the library and get a copy and read it.
		I've been reading it all week.
		And I have to tell you, if he's right about this, he is absolutely one of the geniuses of the age.
		But in any case, it's an absolutely fascinating read that enables you to open your mind to the possibility that this object may be something returning rather than something coming for the first time.
		A fascinating possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Whitley, Strieber, and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Art.
		Hello, Whitney.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		This is Mark from Illinois on SETCOM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I have two quick things.
		With the fear of stirring the story up, I'll bet the astronomical debunkers won't put Doug and Davis in the media.
		There's a lot of hungry telescopes and binoculars out there.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, exactly.
		They've got an interesting problem this time.
		The scientific community.
		This is, again, why I think it's our old familiar visitors, because they are very good at creating situations like this.
		The scientific community has really got to address this.
		My guess is next spring.
		Maybe the object will be gone when the comet comes around the sun.
		I hope not.
		Because then there'll be a situation where the average individual can get a telescope or a pair of binoculars and look at it.
		So they have to address it.
		What is it?
		They can't ignore it.
unidentified		It's a tangible thing.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
unidentified		They can't hide it.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Anybody can see.
		It can't be hidden.
		And if they end up hiding their head in the sand, then that's what they do.
		But they're going to be on the line and they're not going to be able to get off the line.
		The interesting thing about this whole contact experience is it revolves around questions.
		It creates these impossible questions that you can't get away from.
		And it's interesting because questions are a form of stress.
		Evolution is a stress response.
		And even if we don't answer a lot of these incredible questions that the experience brings up, we do grow because we have to live with it.
		And the scientific community is about to have that experience, I think.
unidentified		Okay, Willie, you were discussing biblical references to comets that certainly section thing.
unidentified		It's been claimed that Hilboth is on a 3,000 to 4,000-year elliptical retrograde orbit.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Right.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		The same orbit that the same timeline that Zacharias' 12th Planet is on.
unidentified		Nibiru.
		Okay, now let's average that down to 35,000 years for the summit, and that would put its last appearance in the time frame of 1,500 B.C. I think you mean 3,500 years.
		Well, I believe, okay.
		Well, that's about the time of the X. That's the time frame of the Exodus.
		And there's an author out there called Emmanuel Velikovsky that an older author who wrote some extraordinary books also.
		Yeah, well, the last best one was 1950, Worlds in Collision.
		Yes.
		And he discusses, he researched this time frame of 1500 B.C. where there was worldwide catastrophes.
		That's when Moses led the Hebrews out of Egypt.
		And an unknown story, I mean, the thing that's really been kept quiet is like eight out of ten Hebrews died.
		And the rabbis sort of kept that quiet.
		You know, the sword of God destroyed eight out of ten Hebrews.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It's also the time when the Minoan civilization was destroyed by a catastrophe.
unidentified		But anyway, and Mr. Section discusses the book of Job, which states the arrival of Nibiru from Sagittarius, which Hail Bach came from Sagittarius.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, we'll leave it there, but the caller's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you average it out, look at about 3,500 years, the timeline is just right.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It is just right.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on there with Whitley Streetburn Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Good morning, Art and Whitley.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Hi, how are you?
unidentified		I'd like to...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that makes three of us.
		Now, let me give you what I've got.
		And I'm...
		I've got an audio signal submitted by a ham, and I'm not sure what to do with it.
		I'm not sure what it is.
		And it was received in the K-band area.
		So I'll just let that sit.
		And I don't know what you may have, but what I've heard is K-band.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, if it's in the K-band area and other hams begin to pick up the same signal, then we've got some.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would like to make an appeal to my fellow hams.
		If you guys run into a signal you don't understand, whether it's in the microwave region or lower, I would like to speak with you.
		I would like to get email from you.
		And we can only appeal to those out there who have ears to begin to listen.
		Hams are very, very, very good at that.
		And I'm going to be doing what I can, but I am but one ear.
		We need many to cooperate out there.
		There's pretty good evidence there is a signal.
		And Whitley, you back me up here.
		This astronomer has said there is an unambiguous signal.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
		Two frequencies.
		He was very clear to Prue about that.
		And I questioned her carefully.
		And I specifically asked her to ask him for the frequency.
		And it was interesting.
		She said he was very tight-lipped when he talked about the signal, almost as if he was concerned that he shouldn't speak about it at all, which was an interesting response.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whitley, can you do one more hour, or are you tired?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I'm not in the best shape, but I can keep going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can keep going.
		All right, sure.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Whitley Striber and Art Bell.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		It's great to talk to you and Whitley.
		My question is, this is Craig from Hickory, Kentucky, by the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		My question is, do either of you know whether Dr. Courtney Brown has used his scientific remote viewing technique to determine whether the astronomer will come forward?
		And if not, you might suggest it to him.
		And if he's not going to, perhaps you should release the information anyway without giving his name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, go ahead, Bert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, they don't need to use scientific remote viewing.
		They're in telephone contact with the astronomer.
		Secondly, the astronomer continues to say he is coming forward.
		He just needs time to correlate the latest data and get his act and his ducks in a row before he releases the information.
		Whitley and I are both in possession of a photograph and knowledge about the university.
		Are we going to release this now?
		No.
		The answer is we've decided not to on the pleadings of an awful lot of people.
		But eventually, we definitely will.
		And at least I definitely will.
		And I will assume you too, Whitley.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		If it appears that the system has failed the public completely and that the man has been compelled or has decided that he must remain forever silent, then of course we will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm not sure when that is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the tendency is to want to pin a date on it and say, all right, if it isn't done by next Friday, we're going to release this data.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I think that if we present the amateur data in a credible manner to the professional community and it still remains silent and the debunking becomes obviously irrational, then that's when it's time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would have to agree.
		All right, Whitley, stand by and we'll get back to you.
		You've got a good break now, so get yourself a cup of tea, relax a little bit, and we will do one more hour.
		Now, to get a copy of this program or any program that we do with a guest, you can call 1-800-917-4278.
		That's 1-800-917-4278.
		For those who are trying to understand this whole hail-bop business, these particular programs are certainly very useful.
		And so there you've got it.
		1-800-917-4278.
		We're going to take a break here.
		Come right back and do one more hour with Whitley Streeber.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is the American CBC Radio Network.
unidentified		The American CBC Radio Network
		The American CBC Radio Network Call Art Bell, toll free.
		West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are we really so sure of what's out there?
		I don't think so.
		Are we so sure that the paradigms are as we imagine them to be?
		As we demand they must be?
		I don't think so.
		You don't have to put up with it.
		I know many of you do, but you don't have to.
		What am I talking about?
		Do you know Americans have no guarantee?
		It's getting pretty late in San Antonio, probably a little after 4 o'clock.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Not late.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's early.
		It's early.
		All right.
		Somebody just sent me a facts, Whitley.
		Kind of intriguing.
		Whitley, what would Hailbop's companion have looked like in the night sky about 2,000 years ago?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It's not a question I can answer, but it's very intriguing.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you mean if Halebop passed 3,500 years ago?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the interesting thing about that is this.
		There are two things that are probably true.
		Probably Halebop did pass at that time, and there was an upheaval on this planet at that time that was profound, that changed civilization very, very deeply, that brought an end to the Archaic age.
		The Minoan Empire collapsed.
		The pre-classical, I've forgotten the name of the Empire in Greece collapsed.
		There were upheavals all over the Middle East.
		There were upheavals in Egypt.
		All over the world, there were weather anomalies and dramatic changes.
		There was the volcano at Santorini in the central eastern Mediterranean blew off at that time.
		It was, in other words, an interesting period like ours, with the difference that it was characterized by a great deal of natural upheaval, which has not been true of our period so far.
		Although there's been a fair amount of it, it hasn't been as dramatically aggressive affecting civilization as it was then.
		We don't really know what the significance of this is now.
		There's no evidence that the presence of the comet will have any effect on Earth at all.
		It's going to be, as Ivan spoke about earlier tonight, quite far away, 122 million miles, even farther away than the sun, at its closest approach.
		So what could it possibly do?
		Maybe we'll escape this time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whitley, somebody just sent me another photograph.
		This is a very, very good apparent Hubble photograph.
		Whitley, it shows the comet very clearly, and it shows something very, very much like Chuck Schramck's picture.
		Now, I have no reference on when this was taken, but it's awfully good.
		I'll get it up on the web.
		Oh, my.
		Whitley, do you have the ability to receive a photograph by computer?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		It can be sent to my AOL address, which is all of my addresses are publicly known, so it's simply wstriver at AOL.com.
		I might add to listeners that I get about 200 or 300 pieces of email a day, and I respond to as much as I can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do the same thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's getting a little difficult.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It is hard, but I also respond to questions placed on the questions for Whitley Bulletin Board in my website, which is www.strever.com.
		Don't get upset if you don't get a response.
		Just bear in mind that I'm there, and I'm trying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'm going to forward this to you as we speak.
		I don't know if you're capable of getting on a computer while you're on the air.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I can't do both at the same time from this telephone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's see.
		Let's go here.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Whitley Streeber and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm Doug.
unidentified		I'm calling from Coquitlam, British Columbia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hello, Mr. Streeber.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Hi, how are you?
unidentified		Truly an honor to speak with you, sir.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
unidentified		Okay, Mr. Streeber, with your experiences of abduction and knowledge of ETs, if this comes to first contact, in your opinion, how do you think that we will be approached?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It's going to be a very stressful experience, and it will be devised that way.
		Because as I've said earlier, this experience is in its overall structure, it's evolutionary.
		I think we should be very cautious about the experience, just in general.
		I always advise that.
		This is how it appears to me.
		But evolution, remember, to the creatures that are experiencing it, is a difficulty.
		It's difficult.
		It's only afterwards, when you look at the results, that you think, oh, what a wonderful thing has happened.
		But while it's happening, it isn't easy.
		When I saw Independence Day come out last summer, I thought to myself, it's quite possible that the visitors are getting closer and that this has something to do with it.
		The reason Being that when they come into the individual's life, they come on a tide of fear.
		The first thing that happens to you when they, usually they're in your life when you're a child, and it's wonderful.
		Then they go away and they come back again when you're an adult, and it's terrible.
		And you are then in a position of you have to overcome your fear.
		And you do that not by convincing yourself that they're not dangerous, because they won't let you do that.
		The more you try to convince yourself of that, as it happened to me and many other people, the more dangerous they seem.
		You have to just surrender to the situation completely.
		I think it's going to be tough, but I can guarantee you one thing.
		We'll get through it.
		The individual always gets through this thing.
		You just don't find people who are destroyed by the contact experience.
		A few probably.
		But the great majority of people who have it get through it.
		It seems impossible, but they do.
		And they grow from it.
		Most of them.
		I think as a species and as a society, we certainly will.
unidentified		Do you feel positive about this situation?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, a tough, difficult situation to handle, but one that in the end is going to have positive benefits for mankind.
		That's my feeling.
		I don't there's certain things I don't buy into anymore.
		I used to, I used to really fear the idea that they were going to sort of take us over in some way, but there's no, The problem is, if this is an invasion, they're not using the most valuable tool that they could possess, which would be surprise.
		If it was an invasion, it would already be over.
		If it is an invasion, we have nothing to worry about because they're no good at it at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I think it's an invasion of consciousness.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		There, I couldn't agree with you more, and that is why I always say caution, caution, caution, but keep taking positive steps forward because an invasion of consciousness can be turned to our benefit if we're strong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Whitley, Striber and Art Bell.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Michael from Columbia, South Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Michael.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Michael.
unidentified		What a pleasure to be talking to both of you gentlemen.
		Thanks.
		I'd like to make a comment and ask Whitley a question, kind of a little bit off the subject.
		But first of all, I think that we as a culture suffer from a little bit of instant gratification.
		And, you know, we want instant food.
		We want instant entertainment.
		And I think we want instant answers and solutions to incredibly complex problems.
		And I really think that instead of talking about a timeframe of a week or so, if this astrophysicist does come forth, I think we could think in terms of maybe a month or two, even more, whatever it takes.
		And I also agree with an earlier caller who said that we really don't need the verification of any of these astrophysicists to know what seems to be taking place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I meant to comment on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree with that.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I think that I've been interested in this, as Hoagland says, the anomalous phenomenology now since junior high school.
		I'm 40 years old.
		And I think a few more weeks or even months won't hurt.
		A comet's got, what, five months before we'll see it?
		I think we have a little while to wait.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, we'll begin to be able to see the comet with the naked eye rather easily in February.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It'll be visible in the morning twilight in January low on the eastern horizon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But sadly, we've got this period of blackout when it's going to be very frustrating.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right.
		Until about January the 5th from when?
		Do you know when it goes away?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't know the precise dates.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know it's about to go away now.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's going to be very frustrating.
		So here we are, stuck with all this.
		Caller, I appreciate that.
		I do agree with the premise that we don't necessarily need these people that don't want to have anything to do with speaking out publicly.
		It can be done elsewhere, and I think you commented on that as well, Whitley.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		But what we mustn't let the scientific community do is hide its head in the sand and abandon this.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		They would like to just pretend it isn't there, and that's what they do a lot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly what they're doing right now.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		They're trying to, but the public's got to keep the pressure up.
		I mean, that's why I went on in the first place.
		I thought to myself, I'm going to be accused by my friends in the scientific community of taking this out in the wrong way and causing it, causing being counterproductive.
		And those accusations have come.
		But I keep saying back to these people, there's data in the public record now.
		It's there.
		It's there.
		Art has brought it out, and it's there.
		You can't get away from it now.
		It's there.
		And that is what we're doing here.
		And we have to keep that pressure up.
		When the committee is finished, we come back on, we talk about the results, we make sure that the astronomical community, the scientific community know that the public is out there, that we are aware of this, and that we have substantial, effective reasons to believe that there is something going on.
		In other words, we're looking at sensible data.
		We're not just dreaming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Whitley Streeber and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Yes, I've got a question for Whitley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Whitley, first of all, my first question is, are you familiar with Arthur C. Clarke's novel, like the series about Rama?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think I may have read one of the books.
unidentified		Okay, well, first of all, Arthur's first book was, I think, in the late 60s, and then he collaborated with Chentry Lee, and I think they're on their fourth book right now.
		And the whole significance of it was like a visitor, kind of like an emissary, like a huge cylindrical object that came through in a cometary path that came around the Earth.
		It was set in the future.
		And it kept visiting over and over again like a comet.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Maybe this is the future it was set in.
unidentified		Okay, I was just wondering if you have any contact.
unidentified		Are you able, like in the same kind of realm of being a writer and science fiction writer in certain different aspects, do you have contact with Arthur C. Clarke?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a very good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Arthur C. Clarke is in Sri Lanka, of course.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not very accessible, but not beyond accessible either.
		It's a good question, Whitley.
		Is there a chance you could contact him?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
		I've never been in contact with Arthur C. Clarke in my life.
		I sat beside Arthur C. Clarke during the opening of one of his movies back in the 60s, and that's about the close I've ever been to him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		All right.
		What I have sent you on the net, and let me know if it doesn't come through right, but I think it will, Whitley, is something entitled Leaked Photo, HBST19.jpg.
		That's sitting in your mailbox for later.
		It's an astonishing photograph.
		Astonishing.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Whitley Streeber and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi, Arch.
		I apologize.
		I'm on a cell phone, and there's a slight chance I'm in a mountainous area.
		If I disappear, you'll know what happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Okay.
		I have a quotation I'd like to open with first, and then I have a question for Whitley.
		The quotation, it's actually more of a paraphrase.
		I can't remember the exact words, but it goes like this.
		All that we have of knowledge compared to what we don't know about the universe is like a candle in the dark.
		Yet it is infinitely precious, for it is all that we know and all that we have.
		That was a direct quotation, paraphrased slightly, from Albert Einstein.
		And Whitley Striever said a little over an hour ago that scientists don't get recognition for things they discover that are unexpected, but rather they get recognition for things that are expected.
		He also said that when they discover things that are unexpected, instead of getting recognition, they are in danger.
		They lose jobs and such as that.
		That's exactly the opposite of the way science does work.
		I can give you three examples.
		No one expected Albert Einstein to discover things such as special and general relativity.
		Yet when he did, scientists all over the world rushed to verify it.
		Within 11 years of the publication of his theory of special relativity, it was verified in 1917.
		And two years later, in 1919, he received the Physics Nobel Prize.
		And yet, Albert Einstein was completely unknown at the time he published his theory.
		In fact, he was working for the Swiss Patent Examiner's Office.
		He did not have a tenured position.
		If you'd like a more recent example, I can't remember the man's name, but he is at the University of California of Irvine.
		And he was doing research on halogen chemistry.
		And as a byproduct of that, he just accidentally discovered that certain chemicals, and I'm sure you know about this, can affect the ozone layer.
		And four years ago, or perhaps it was five years ago, 1991, he received the Nobel Prize for something that was, again, completely unexpected.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he is still being ridiculed.
unidentified		Yes, but he received the Nobel Prize.
		He is still a tenured professor at the University of California, Irvine.
		And he is also receiving support from very, very many scientists, for example, Carl Sagan.
		Now, I would also like to give you a couple of names.
		I would like you to try to get, as guests on your show, to discuss this, since you seem to be so intent upon attacking the scientific community.
		I guess I'm challenging you to get some representatives on there, and I actually have three names for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		All right.
		The one is obvious, and he can be reached in Ithaca, New York at Cornell University, where he is a tenured professor of astronomy.
		Dr. Carl Sagan.
		He's in the phone book.
		The second name is less well known, but he's a world-famous science fiction writer and also a Ph.D. in physics and astronomy.
		His name is Dr. Robert L. Forward.
		He can be reached at the Hughes Research Laboratories in Malibu, California.
		He's also in the Los Angeles Phone Directory.
		And the third name would be another world-famous science fiction writer and professor of physics, again, at the University of California at Irvine, Dr. Gregory Benford.
		He lives in Laguna Beach and is in the phone book.
		And actually, I can also obtain the numbers of all of these people if you would like me to get them for you.
		I have a phone book at home with their numbers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And I can also put you in contact with Arthur C. Clarke through telex.
		I have his telex address and probably could find his phone number.
		Without going into too much detail, I have a lot of contacts in both the scientific world and the science fiction world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Believe me, we're happy to pursue any or all of those contacts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Now, I am as open-minded as anyone.
		However, there's a famous saying, and I don't mean this pejoratively to anyone in particular, but it is possible to have a mind that's so open that the brains fall out.
		I try to maintain a certain amount of skepticism, and I keep coming back to the fact that there may well be something there, but we seem to be jumping to tremendous conclusions on very little evidence.
		There's nothing wrong with that as long as you keep firmly in mind that we have very little evidence.
		All we have is evidence that there is something that is reflecting or emitting light, possibly apparently in the same region of the sky as this comet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		So to, I mean, actually postulate that it's coexistent in the same region of space as a comet and not just apparently, much less that it's anything other than a natural object.
unidentified		You know, you have to go for the simple explanation before you go for the more complex.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But Malcolm's razor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is the simple explanation?
unidentified		The simple explanation is that it is something natural.
		We don't know what it is.
		Science can't explain things overnight.
		As a caller a moment ago said, we do have a culture and a society that is always eager for instant gratification and easy answers.
		And science, unfortunately, is a system that relies on checks and balances, replication of data.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, listen.
		All right.
		I think you've got most of it out.
		We're going to have to go.
		We're at.
unidentified		I'd like to hear some responses.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You certainly will.
		Thank you very much.
		Whitley, sit tight.
		We'll be back for a final half hour.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Stay right there, everybody.
		You're listening to the American CBC Radio Network.
unidentified		American CBC Radio Network
		Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		That's 702-727-1295.
		First time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am.
		I think the last caller was entirely reasonable with his suggestions regarding Dr. Sagan, Dr. Forward, and Dr. Benford.
		And we'll pursue those.
		I think that I do want to say, though, that so far from people of that caliber, we have been unable to get a responsive reply.
		And in the cases that we have had a responsive reply, it has quickly been taken back.
		So we are a little suspicious of what information we're able to get from the traditional scientific community, and I think reasonably so.
		I'm unable to say, as a talk show host, that this object is some great ship coming to take us all home.
		I have no idea.
		I simply have said and maintain now, there is enough evidence that I would say an examination by the mainstream community is demanded.
		Absolutely demanded.
		Not enough evidence to say that here we have some great alien ship headed our way, but certainly enough evidence to suggest there is something utterly anomalous up there that certain people are very much afraid to talk about.
		The VTech 900NDL special white sale.
		Zero.
		And in conclusion, in response to the last caller, I would say if we don't come forward and we don't ask these questions, then who will?
		Whidley, how would you respond to that last caller?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think you made a couple of quite good points.
		The first and most important one is not to forget that we don't know what this is.
		It's like all of the stories that go around where everybody's got all the visitors all figured out and where their planet they're from, etc.
		We don't even know what they are yet.
		We mustn't forget that.
		Nature has proved to be full of quite a number of strange things, and it might be that this object is a natural object of some very strange kind.
		That remains to be seen.
		The second point that he made in making reference to some of the more notable successes in the history of science with regard to opening itself to new discoveries were important too.
		And I think that it should be remembered that the jury is still out.
		Initially, the administrations that run these telescopes have backed off of this, probably because they have no support internally and don't know the faintest idea of what to say about it.
		Most likely, it's because some of the astronomers involved have not been studying the matter.
		On the other hand, Charles Schramack suggests that there has been an effort to conceal the actual condition of the area around the corona, the Halebau comet.
		And you can see that in the September the 6th, 1996 Hubble picture that has just been posted of the comet.
		It does not look like a normal Hubble photograph.
		It is much less clear.
		He's right about that.
		So I feel that while it's true that science has at times successfully integrated new material, in this particular case, it's important that the pressure be kept up because this is the kind of datum that is easy to just let slide by if you can because it's too hard to deal with otherwise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Whitley, Streeber, and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yes.
		Hi, this is Marilyn calling from North Dakota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Marilyn.
unidentified		This is a little bit off the track for Whitley, but what if we turned our worm off for a week occasionally to get rid of this greenhouse effect that we're having, the ozone problem so bad?
		Is that in your line at all, Whitley?
		Just think about it.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		We are going to, and just to reply very briefly, oddly enough, this relates to the book I have coming out, which I really ought to mention when I'm on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, please do.
unidentified		Go ahead.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I have a book coming out on January the 7th called A Secret School, which is about recapturing the innocence of childhood and returning to it armed with the wisdom that we've gained as adults.
		And it's called Preparation for Contact.
		It's a whole new way of looking at this experience.
		And all of those of us who have had childhood experiences, it's a chance to integrate those experiences into the whole structure of our lives.
		So I mean childhood encounter experience.
		With regard to what's going to happen, actually happen in nature, I think that the important thing is that we're going to have to face that the human population has already grown so substantially that we are going to have an incredibly profound effect on nature over the next few years.
		Nature is going to either have to become a managed system or it's going to go out of control.
		That is flat.
		Period.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are many things that are threatened by such a statement, as you well know.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		As I will, absolutely.
		But I do think that the human species over the past 25 years, As much as we run ourselves down, in terms of the environmental response that we've made so far, we've done quite a bit.
		And the institutions are evolving.
		We'll do more.
		I think we'll win this, but I think it's going to be a near thing.
		We will learn how many people this planet can hold.
		We're going to find that out, because I think we're going to get to the limit of human population within the next 50 years.
		We'll find what that limit is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I absolutely agree with you.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Whitley Streamer and Art Bell.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		It's Whitley.
		It's a pleasure to speak to you both.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in L.A., T.C. All right.
unidentified		And, well, I'd like to first before I continue, I'd like to say, Art, thanks for introducing me to Shortwave Radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
unidentified		That was great.
		I think The Caller Before the Break had a lot of very good points.
		Yeah, I do too.
		But, you know, we're living in very different times right now, so I don't think a lot of scientists would get the same respect as back in those days what he was talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And history is replete with scientific jumps, with discoveries that have been made indeed, but it's also replete with crucifixions.
unidentified		Yes, you're right.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		It's a very mixed bag.
		And it appears that the community is right now, a lot of different areas of the scientific community are up against data that fundamentally challenge their paradigms.
		As Einstein's data, to a degree, did challenge some very fundamental paradigms at that time, but not as completely as some of the natural observations that appear to be being made now.
		So it's a slightly different picture right now than it was then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Caller?
		I also, I think, like, this information is very important for just the regular people out there to at least be exposed to.
		Pretty much, I mean, we should know what's going on.
		I really hate to hear all these things about Zionists kind of keeping it down low and it's not ready to be released to the public.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, I don't think that they're doing this in some great conspiratorial way.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		No, I would agree with you there.
		I think it's all very explainable.
		You don't have to get into conspiracy theories to explain it.
		It's more sociological than it is conspiratorial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Precisely.
		Precisely.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Whitley Streeber and Art Bell.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Frank from St. Louis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Frank.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I'm a 36-year-old African American, so I want to let you know that you have everybody out here listening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great.
unidentified		I've been taping and listening to people from Richard Oakland on down.
		And Mr. Streeber made a comment that kind of went by earlier, saying that this may be a collective of individuals with one mind and one moral ethic different from our own.
		Well, it sounds to me like you just described the Borg.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's interesting.
		I was actually talking about that with somebody today.
		And so the result was that for the first time in my life, the concept of the Borg came into my mind.
		And for the listeners who don't know what that is, it's something in Star Trek.
		The Borg is essentially a creature with many different bodies.
		And it seeks to assimilate other species into its system and to make them all part of it so that everybody loses their individuality and it all becomes part of the Borg.
		However, in this particular case, what I think we're dealing with is something that is not aggressive in that particular way.
		Again, if it was aggressive in that way, we would be part of the Borg now.
		The way in which it's been aggressive has been apparently going after the physical and genetic material that we possess.
		That's where it's been much more aggressive than going after us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of our mainstream media is rather borg-like now.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, maybe they've been borg, but they're getting a little borging.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy, I'm going to get shot for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Whitley's tree Bernard Bell.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		Hi.
		Hi.
		My name's Jessica, and I'm from Pierce, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jessica.
unidentified		Hi.
		I was wondering for Whitley more about visitation.
		So we're actually off the common.
		I've had them ever since I was a little kid, ever since I can remember.
		Fortunately, I don't remember anything bad about them.
		But I was wondering more with you, do these things, do these visitations come more on your doing or their doing?
		Because I don't seem to have any control over it.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, it has always been absolutely out of my control until the past about two years, or three years.
		And it's become much more in my control now.
		And now they show up in the context of responding to specific needs and questions that are articulated in one way or another by me.
		And they don't show up at other times in my life, at least very rarely.
		Like, for example, in 1994, I probably had 50 or 60 encounters.
		In 1996 so far, I've had four.
		And each one of them has been extremely conscious and has started when I was awake.
		It's been very, very different from the way it was in the past.
		It's much less automatic and arbitrary.
		It's gradually focusing into a relationship, slowly but surely, and it's beginning to be functional as a relationship.
unidentified		The last one that I had, it seemed to come, it was strange.
		There were these beings, like the leader or something, I was kind of confused at the time, but seemed to be the leader.
		And they had me sort of levitated, and they took this metal, like pyramid-type shaped thing, and they took it from like the third eye and went down my body.
		And then I don't really remember anything after that.
		But I know that like a week and a half after that, I was like totally high.
		I mean, and I had so much energy, I couldn't believe it.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		You know, there's a very specific practice involving opening the third eye that is a matter of connecting that particular part of your body to the solar plexus down in the center of your body.
		And it sounds to me like something happened to you along the lines of they did that, but really, really well.
		And you got into touch with some powerful energy from that.
		I've been thinking about it, and I'm getting ready to actually finally, after three or four years of struggling with it, to create a videotape about this whole meditation process that I've learned from it.
		And what you described is very familiar to me.
		And it's important because the opening of the third eye, which is quite real, it's very much of an organic part of the body, is incredibly valuable tool.
		When you open your third eye, you also open your mind.
		And you begin to become a completely new kind of person then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Whitley Streeber and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		Whitley, I feel like I know you.
		I've read all your books.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thanks.
unidentified		And there's two things I want to say.
		First of all, I read a couple of Taylor Caldwell books where she read 1,500 books to write them.
		And it was about St. Luke and St. Paul.
		And after the crucifixion, the sun disappeared from the sky.
		And this was recorded also in Mayan history.
		And the other night, I don't know who it was, but they said this thing will block out the sun.
		And I thought, wow, maybe that's what it was.
		You know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're jumping to conclusions here.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		since it's 122 million miles away at its closest approach based on the trajectory it's on now it's not likely that anything like that will happen however if this object leaves the immediate uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		we If it leaves the orbit of Hale Bob, then we'll have a whole new ballgame.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		That's going to create a stir.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		If it comes out from behind the sun and it's left the orbit of Hale Bob is still located in the sky, that will definitely cause a stir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That'll get attention.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Whitley, Streeber, and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, Whitley.
		How's it going?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm calling from Canada.
unidentified		Yes.
		I'd just like to touch on a point.
		The astronomer you guys are talking about that is releasing this information.
		If something were to happen that his career would be discredited, or you understand what I'm saying?
		Yeah, sure.
		Don't you think come April, when this thing is passing, that it's going to be so huge everyone's just going to look up the night sky and there it is?
		Well, sure, you'd be able to see it with the naked eye.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It's not clear that the hailbaugh comet is going to be that big.
		Remember, it's going to be very far away.
		We'll know by about January the 15th.
		If you can see the comet with the tail, with the naked eye, on the eastern horizon, about 12 degrees above the eastern horizon, about an hour before dawn, by January the 15th, then you will be able to see it with the naked eye through April.
unidentified		Yeah, because we're not sure how far behind or away this.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, we know how far away it is.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		We just don't know how reflective the gases are going to be that are coming off of it.
unidentified		Okay, I have another point and a little funny note for you.
unidentified		In case of an alien attack, the ban on prayer in the classroom will temporarily be lifted.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		That's an interesting concept.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's hope so.
		Well, all right.
		So that's where we are, and I'm glad you came on the air tonight, Whitley, because I wanted to update everybody on where we are, where the astronomer is, why there was no news conference, the fact that it's probably coming up very shortly, and that we are going to, I guess, be patient.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and the next step, as far as I'm concerned, is to get some other competent amateurs looking at Chuck's data.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Where would be a good collection point for these amateurs who would like to volunteer to be on this committee?
		Because I agree with you.
		It's the only way we can get any action here.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I think it probably would be more efficient to send copies of the pictures to them and let them do it in their own context, especially if some of them will have equipment that they may want to use.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but I mean, for them to contact us to say, I would like to be part of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a facility for that on your webpage?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Not really.
		I mean, I think they should contact by email, but I actually had in mind that I could find them.
		I mean, I know a number of amateur astronomers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And I have four or five in mind already.
		But if there's anyone who wants to join this and has got a top drawer four-star amateur credentials, which to me means the possession and a Knowledge of the use of top-level amateur equipment and a long history in the amateur astronomy community, then please do write.
		That would be wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		In addition, if there's any hams out there, I'd be glad to handle that end of it.
		The ways to contact me are well known, and if anybody out there is receiving a signal, there are a lot of ears, then I certainly want to know about it, and you can believe that we will make it public.
		So if the hams would contact me and the astronomers would contact Whitley, we will go from here.
		Sounds good?
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Whitley, you're a real trooper to be up this late.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it about five o'clock?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It's about five o'clock here.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to go take a nap that's going to last until noon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whitley Streeper, thank you.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Thanks a lot, Art.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It's been a pleasure to be on, and thanks, everyone, for listening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, my friend.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		That's Whitley, and the rest, I guess, is up to you to sort of chew on and decide for yourself what path you're going to pursue with regard to this continuing information.
		I'm Art Bell, and you're listening to the CBC Radio Network.
		To get a copy of the program you just heard, you can call beginning now, 1-800-917-4278.
		Let me give that again.

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