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Nov. 22, 1996 - Art Bell

03:09:04

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dr. Leonard Horowitz - Emerging Viruses. Rodney the Captured Spirit

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01:00:30

dr leonard horowitz

01:12:52

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unidentified		Talk Radio 790K ABC presents Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you good evening or good morning as the case may be, a Friday night, Saturday morning, or a Monday night, Tuesday morning as the case may be in all these great time zones.
		These many, many time zones, from the Tahitian and Hawaiian island chains in the west all the way east to the Caribbean, U.S. Virgin Islands, soon Puerto Rico, south into South America and north all the way to the Pole worldwide on the internet.
		This is Coast Coast AM.
		I'm Arthur.
		With all the dangers our world faces, really big dangers, the biggest may be the smallest.
		Viruses.
		And that's what we're going to talk about this morning with Dr. Len Horowitz.
		And he wrote a monstrous book on emerging viruses, AIDS and Ebola.
		Nature, accident, or intentional.
		We'll talk about their nature, perhaps the Gulf War.
		Well, I want to say virus.
		I don't know it's a virus.
		It might be a virus.
		We're going to find out.
		We're going to talk generally about viruses and why there seem to be more of them, like everything else these days.
		And so we will get to that shortly.
		There was a line in a famous movie that I saw recently in which a female agent, intelligence agent, said, I never let the little things bother me.
		Some little things should bother you, and they are the small ones, the viruses.
		Dr. Len Horowitz, welcome to the program.
		Thank you, Your Lord.
		You are presently on the road, I take it, book signing or something?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm speaking tomorrow, actually a Monday night at the, let's see, where am I tomorrow?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Monday night at the Deep River Bookstore in West Hollywood, Santa Monica, Hollywood, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		Well, at least it has dried up for you.
		It's been very wet through California in my area.
		It's finally beginning to dry up a little.
		Doctor, what in the world got you interested in viruses, the tough one, tough ones, AIDS, Ebola, level 4, I think they call them?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, you remember the case of the Florida dentist who infected his patients with the AIDS virus?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, I became the chief investigator of the murder theory in that case.
		At the time, that was July 27, 1990, when the case broke, I was operating as the chief professional advisor for the largest dental and medical catalog supply company in the world.
		And the CEO asked me because of my background, I have a master's in public health from Harvard in behavioral science.
		I was a dentist for 16 years.
		I got a degree from Tufts.
		I had another master's degree in health education.
		And my background was in media, health education, health promotion, and fear, anxiety.
		And so I was asked to develop patient educational literature to help allay people's fear of going into dental and medical offices.
		You remember how afraid everyone was?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I still am.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		You've joined millions of Americans who feel the same way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And not just because of the possibility of viruses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm afraid of a dentist period.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can help you in both ways.
		But at any rate, at the time, I started to investigate the Florida dental AIDS tragedy because of this assignment.
		And I began by researching the Centers for Disease Control's official investigation reports.
		I found them initially to be scientifically questionable.
		I later found that they were scientifically bogus.
		Then I found about a year later that they were fraudulent.
		They had literally deleted much of the evidence, the incriminating evidence against Dr. David Acker, who the bottom line showed had intentionally injected his patients with HIV-tainted anesthetics because he believed he needed to express a vendetta against the government.
		He believed that he was dying from a virus that the government had purposely created as well as intentionally deployed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Have we proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that Dr. Acker did this?
		In other words, have they looked at what is it that you look at in the AIDS virus that makes it a specific virus traceable from one person to another?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		A DNA sequence, which was done by the world's leading DNA sequencing analyst for Los Alamos, for the government's laboratory, it was Los Alamos Laboratories, Gerald Myers.
		And that was not the only thing that was relied upon.
		There were numerous other investigations ongoing as to what the alternative explanations were, whether it was patient-to-patient transmission, whether it was an accidental injury, whether it was the use of unsterilized equipment or instruments, or whether it was a superinfectious strain of the virus.
		And none of those theories held water except for the murder theory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, if I may, let me ask you.
		2020, some years ago, did quite a piece on dentists.
		And if the drilling equipment was not sterilized, they in fact proved that blood was held up inside.
		And then when drilling, another patient would be transferred.
		So that was ruled out.
		That was ruled out.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		What they showed is that it's true that sterilization of handpieces is important, but in that particular case, it was not because the patients had not received the use of the same handpieces or the same dirty instruments.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		So that had been ruled out about a year and a half before, in fact, it was the 2020 segment and the Street Story segment.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do we know that Dr. Acker had the attitude you described, that he felt that the government had done this and he was going to get back at them by killing others?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do we know he had that attitude?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Because I did something that you didn't hear about, nor did any of the American people.
		I cross-matched Dr. Acker's personality profile with those of 36 serial killers studied by the FBI.
		I used the FBI's Methods and materials to evaluate and investigate the case.
		And Dr. Acker maintained a classic organized serial killer personality profile, crime scene profile, and developmental history.
		That's how come I can say with a great deal of confidence.
		And I published this in the December 94 issue of the British Dental Journal, initially in an article called Murder and Cover-Up Could Explain the Florida Dental AIDS Mystery.
		And then that subsequently led to the publication of my last book called Deadly Innocence, The Kimberly Bergalis Case.
		Now, the American news media blacked it out.
		I was interviewed on the BBC.
		British dentists and the British people know more about this issue than the American people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's frequently true of BBC reporting.
unidentified		It's very thorough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, how many people did he infect?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Acker is now known to have infected somehow.
		They say, according to the government, it's a mystery still.
		It's no mystery.
		If you read my material, you read Deadly Innocence, and they say six, and there's definitely six.
		There may be as many as a dozen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can understand that you could do a study of Dr. Acker from the perspective of the modus operandi of a serial killer and come to the conclusion that he had done this in a serial manner.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you determine that he had an attitude that he, in effect, had been killed by the government?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		That was what launched me into the Emerging Viruses AIDS and Ebola investigation.
		See, because Dr. Acker's motives were screaming loud and clear in the legal testimonies.
		In essence, he did what all organized serial killers love to do.
		You know how they play games with creating catch-22s for the authorities like the mail bomber.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		This is the type of fellow that Dr. Acker was.
		He believed he was infected with the virus because he had gotten a hold of, or in essence, what he did was he created a crime that couldn't be solved without implicating the government.
		If they told the truth, then everybody would want to know motive.
		And as I said, the motive was loud and clear, screaming in the legal testimonies, and it was that Dr. Acker had gotten a hold of Dr. Robert Strecker's material.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		You remember the Strecker memorandum?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I interviewed him, yes.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		So do you remember his brother Ted Strecker had obtained through the Freedom of Information Act an extraordinary document, a 1970 Department of Defense appropriations request for $10 million for a five-year study to develop immune system ravaging viruses in germ warfare?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct, yes.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that was the document that drove Dr. Agger crazy, and when I found that document, I lived in denial for about eight months.
		I could not believe that this was a legitimate document.
		And then after I was done, the deadly innocence investigation, I finally, curiosity got the better of me.
		I went back into Harvard's Countway Library where I did most of my postdoctoral research, and I began to dig.
		And what I did in my latest book, Emerging Viruses Agent Ebola, is I tracked that money.
		I tracked that document.
		That document is legitimate.
		I show you exactly where, out of the congressional record, it was pulled and made classified.
		I then show you where the money went.
		The money went to Litton Bionetics Research Laboratories, a subsidiary of the mega-military weapons contracting firm, Lytton Industries.
		And I show you exactly what they did to take this money and create numerous AIDS-like and Ebola-like viruses.
		I show you who did this, when they did it, how they did it virtually every step of the way.
		And because most people can't imagine it, I literally reprinted the government contracts under which these types of viruses were developed, including how much the bioengineers were paid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, backtracking for just one second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've never heard, how did Dr. Acker get infected?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		He got infected, I believe, 1985.
		He had a sex partner who was HIV positive, and that sex partner, after the affair, called Dr. Acker, told him that he was HIV positive, and that Dr. Acker should get tested.
		And Dr. Acker lived, that's one of his traits, in denial.
		And so he never did get tested until it was December 18th, October 8th, 1987, was when he first really realized he waited two years at least.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		Fascinating.
		Let's backtrack.
		Before we begin talking about the origin a little bit, I've got a piece of material on you here, and it says, sure, AIDS came from African monkeys, but what they don't tell you is what they did to the monkeys.
		And I was curious what that meant.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, what that means is that's exactly what I learned.
		What they did to the monkeys is they, and when I say they, I'm talking about now the famed or infamous Dr. Robert Gallo, the alleged discoverer of the AIDS virus in 1984, and co-investigators Robert King and Herrera Adamson, Stringer Yang, as well as John Landon at Lytton Bionetics Research Laboratories.
		They took monkeys, various types of monkeys, rhesius monkeys, woolly monkeys, and they took monkey viruses like SB40, simian virus 40, which was the 40th monkey virus ever discovered, and other monkey viruses, which were humanly benign, or at least considered at that time to be humanly benign, although we now know, and we have evidence to suggest that people who said that they caused cancer were defunded and demoted and demoralized.
		But at any rate, they took these monkeys, viruses, and they recombined them with virtually every animal cancer virus under the sun.
		They recombined them, for example, with feline leukemia virus RNA, chicken leukemia, sarcoma virus RNA.
		That caused immune suppression, wasting, and death.
		The cat leukemia caused a laundry list Of symptoms virtually identical to what AIDS patients suffer from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What were they ostensibly trying to do?
		I mean, surely they were not trying to create something horrible, even if it ended up that way.
		The purpose of their research, stated at least, must have been something positive.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
		I would say that 98% of the people, in fact, even Dr. Robert Gale, an interesting story about him, but what gets him off the hook is that he published.
		He left a paper trail.
		And it is wild as nightmares or imagination.
		He probably wouldn't have published had he at all thought that it would have gotten out accidentally or by intent.
		But what they were doing, they were under four different types of contracts.
		The first, as I mentioned, was Department of Defense Biological Weapons Development.
		They believed that the Russians were going to get ahead of us, and for national security reasons, they developed these types of viruses for germ warfare.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can't have an AIDS gap, huh?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
		And when I tell you who ordered these viruses, you're going to be like appalled.
		You know, it'll be unbelievable.
		We'll go into the social-political background.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope we'll have time for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		But then they were also developing these viruses because for the National Cancer Institute, number one, they were still interested in evaluating the cancer virus cancer theory.
		It still was not determined definitively that cancer viruses cause cancer in humans.
		They knew this to be true for animals.
		And so during the 1960s, during what was called the Special Virus Cancer Program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, they were looking, if I've got this straight, for a viral cause for cancer.
		That's correct.
		All right.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		And then not only that, they were looking for vaccines to cure cancer and early diagnostic screening methods to find cancer viruses in tissues in a hopeful effort that once you found it, you could eliminate it and then prevent cancer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got it.
		All right.
		So that's what they were looking for.
		However, they ended up creating, you believe, the AIDS virus?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		There's no doubt in my mind.
		As a matter of fact, I was privileged to be the first investigator in the history of the esteemed International AIDS Conference on July 10th of this year to present the first scientific paper saying that these are undoubtedly laboratory creations.
		And as I said, I go into who made them, when they made them, how they made them, and show you the contracts under which they were made.
		So they've created numerous AIDS-like and Ebola-like viruses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did it get loose?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Most plausibly during the 1974 experimental hepatitis B vaccine that was administered simultaneously to 200,000 human subjects in New York City and Central Africa.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		In New York City, subjects were Willowbrook State School mentally retarded children, gay men in New York City, and blacks in Central Africa, eastern Zaire, Northwest Uganda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying it really it did get out by accident.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		No, I can't conclude that.
		I conclude that it's highly plausible.
		First of all, this is what I conclude.
		I conclude that they're definitely not natural.
		These are undoubtedly laboratory creations, and I cite all the evidence.
		And the evidence is overpowering and overwhelming.
		It's obvious to anybody who gives it a fair shake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, we'll give it a good fair shake tonight, Doctor.
		Stand by, and we'll be right back to you.
		My guest is Dr. Len Horowitz.
		His latest book of 10 is Emerging Viruses, and they certainly are doing that.
		So you might want to take a couple of hours here and worry about the little things.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is the CBC Radio Network.
		Dr. Len Horowitz.
		Doctor, a few questions about the nature of AIDS.
		One is, for example, if you get it, how long does it take you to die?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		It varies from as little as two years to indefinitely.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		You could live with HIV indefinitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You could.
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a new conclusion.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's not really that new.
		It's just the fact that most people aren't aware of that scientific fact because the media and many, many of the principal investigators have been hyping that once infected, you're going to die.
		That's certainly, that's just not the case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as a matter of fact, so much so that insurance companies were paying death benefits before people died based on calculations of when they'd be dead.
		That's correct.
		So you're saying people could live indefinitely?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		I mean, right now there's about 13% of the gay community in San Francisco that have lived for more than 16, 17 years with the virus, with the infection, without having any symptoms.
		Likewise, there's about 8% of the hemophili population that get pumped full of the ton of viruses and the contaminated blood and blood clotting factors and they still have been maintaining their health.
		See, it really depends on cofactors like lifestyle risks, like nutrition, like exercise, like emotional stability, like relationships, like your spirituality.
		If you believe in God and you have faith that the Lord is with you and that you will be healthy and you have a purpose in life and you have meaning in your life and you're involved in helping others, those are the major factors that boost the immune system, which is countered by the AIDS virus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many people in America, for example, do you think now carry the AIDS virus and have no idea?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, estimates range from between 500,000 to 1 million.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot of people to be walking around without knowledge of something that will be infecting others.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and they say of those, probably about 60 to 80% may not know they're infected.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		There have been a number of things I want to ask you about.
		Recent supposed Breakthroughs with medicines, soups, various sorts of medicines put together that they say now will arrest or at least stop the AIDS virus from attacking.
		What can you tell us about that?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Most of what most people have heard is propaganda.
		It's garbage.
		It was just the same type of hype that was given to us about AZT.
		The fact that they're still giving us hype, our wonderful AZT is now for pregnant mothers to prevent babies getting this virus from their mothers.
		I mean, all of this is literally hocus-pocus.
		It's garbage.
		It's smoke and mirrors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I interviewed Dr. Duisberg.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, see, Dr. Duisberg, I could tell you some fascinating things about Dr. Duisberg's early research because he developed numerous AIDS-like viruses with Dr. Robert Gallo and under NCI contract.
		In fact, Dr. Duisberg was, and I show you his contract in emerging viruses, AIDS and Ebola.
		I show you his specific contract.
		He was taking type C animal cancer viruses and doing the same types of studies with these viruses that Dr. Gallo was working with monkeys with written bionics researchers.
		Duisberg was doing it in chickens.
		And even at one point, you know, Duisberg is claiming to this day, he's the doctor, for most of your listeners who may not know Duisberg, he's the doctor that's been claiming that HIV does not cause AIDS.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you agree with him?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree with that.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, I agree that HIV is a cofactor.
		I'm less strong about it than he is.
		See, when I see Dr. Duisberg, now you have to understand I'm an expert in media.
		I'm not an expert in virology.
		I'm an expert in media.
		I know how the media is used to twist people's minds and for what purposes.
		And I can tell you that what Dr. Dunsberg is not saying is more important than the 80% of what he's saying.
		The 80% of what he's saying is that HIV does not cause AIDS, that it's the drugs, lifestyle risks, poppers, and the AZT, DDI, 3TC, protease inhibitors, all that stuff is killing people.
		I agree.
		It is.
		There's probably more people dying from those drugs than the people dying from the actual virus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me tell you, that's what he said about AZT, that it's killing people.
		And he said, look, the immune system does, when you take AZT, show a brief spike.
		It shows a spike, and you get a better count for a little while, but then it quickly goes downhill from there.
		And he claims that AZT is actually what's killing the people.
		I agree with that.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		See, but what he's not telling you, and it's just that the typical government disinformation program goes like this.
		You may be aware of it.
		80% truth peppered with about 20% lies.
		See, it was British poet Tennyson that said, lies peppered with half-truths are the hardest matters to fight.
		And indeed, what Dr. Duisberg is saying is 80% correct.
		And then the other 20% is what he's not telling you is that he was intimately involved in the development of these types of viruses under the highly funded, largely secret special virus cancer program, which ran between 1962 and 1976.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		AIDS is particularly devastating in Central Africa, of course.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Zaire, for example.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And here we are, possibly about to send a whole bunch of American troops into Zaire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I wonder if you feel there is any particular danger for them from either AIDS or Ebola.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, my take is, on regard to the Ebola, that they have been re-releasing Ebola.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		There's a tremendous amount of both circumstantial and scientific evidence to show that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Re-releasing?
		I wasn't even aware that they originally released Ebola.
		I've heard all kinds of things.
		It comes from the inside of caves, maybe crystals.
		Nobody really knows for sure where Ebola comes from.
		Do you?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
		It comes from, most plausibly, based on the science.
		John Landon's written bionetics research study that began in 1965, where he took 18 monkeys, he inoculated them with the mother of Ebola, which was Marburg.
		Actually, the mother of Ebola was Marburg.
		The mother of Marburg was what John Landon used.
		So like every grandmother of Ebola, John Landon took that, he inoculated that virus into 18 monkeys.
		Nine of them, he reported, died.
		The other nine were shipped to vaccine production facilities.
		Now, you remember the movie Outbreak?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		You remember that to save the United States, the researchers had to find that monkey that lived?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Before they dropped a fuel air bomb on a community, yes.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Right, indeed.
		And so they found this monkey.
		The monkey lived because it had developed antibodies, and that was the monkey that was required to develop the vaccine.
		And though that movie was basically mostly true, it's all based on fact, except for the Hollywood ending where they find this monkey and in 48 hours develop a vaccine to save the United States, that shows you what they do with the monkeys that lived these experiments.
		They send them to the vaccine production facilities.
		And that's exactly where the first Ebola-wright virus broke out.
		Marburg, it was entitled Marburg.
		It broke out simultaneously in three vaccine production facilities in 1967 in Belgrade, Yugoslavia, Frankfurt, Germany, and Marburg, Germany, where it got its name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Let me ask you about that movie before we leave that.
		The contention was that if something like Ebola got loose, and I've often wondered about that, if it did in a community about that size, somewhere in the United States, and it was getting loose just about the way it was in that movie, in real life,
		I suspect that that last-minute cure would not have been found, and that they would have been facing the choice that I thought they were facing, and that is to destroy that community and those American citizens.
		What would happen, do you suppose, Doctor, in modern America if a community began to come down with Ebola?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		they would do probably what they did in that movie.
		They would coordinate off militarily and they would seriously consider bombing the place, firebombing the place.
		They would burn the bodies.
		They wouldn't touch the bodies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would that be effective?
unidentified		Um y yes it would for Ebola.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Now you know something worse than that, Art?
unidentified		What?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		I predict, unless the American public wakes up, that that's exactly what's going to happen.
		And I'm not the only one.
		I don't know if you've read Tom Clancy's new book, Executive Orders.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not yet.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, you probably are aware that Tom Clancy is very akin, very close to the CIA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm a big Clancy fan.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know that the CIA invites him to their seminars?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wouldn't surprise me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They probably read them.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, in Clancy's new book, he's got the scenario that there are these Muslims, noratens terrorists that get a hold of Ebola and they release it in America, in urban America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought of that when I thought, last time there was an Ebola outbreak, I thought, boy, you know, if somebody were to make it down there and get a sample of that, they would have a weapon that would be almost like a nuclear device.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Okay, right.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		See, you're not alone in your thinking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		In fact, that's what they did.
unidentified		Remember I said to you that they re-released Ebola?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you said that.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		I said that.
		Now, here's the evidence for it.
		And I told at least 2,000, maybe 3,000 health professionals during seminars between January, a year ago, April was when Ebola kicklet broke out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I recall.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Now, starting in January, I was already predicting to health care professionals throughout the United States during OSHA compliance and infection control seminars that they could expect another Ebola outbreak sometime soon.
		How was I able to predict that, given it had not broken out for 20 years?
unidentified		Here's how.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		As a media expert, all you have to do is read between the lines and read the writing on the wall.
		First of all, I'm going to call on your memory here.
		You remember the movie Outbreak was trouncing its competitions in the box office?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		You had the book, The Hot Zone, number one on the New York Times bestseller list.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		You had Newsweek and Time cover stories, emerging viruses, the emerging viruses are coming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Then you had the made-for-television movie called Virus, based on Robin Cook's book, Outbreak.
		This is Monday night.
		And then the very next Wednesday, and of course you had a reruns of the Dramata strain on TV as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No doubt about it.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Okay, then the very next Wednesday, after that made-for-television movie was largely promoted, you had the real thing happen, Abola Kikwit broke out.
		Now, when the researchers two days, three days later, investigated that DNA sequence of that viral strain, Lawrence Attman, MD for the New York Times, in a tiny little sentence in one article that appeared in the middle of the New York Times, said that, quote, scientists were surprised to learn that the DNA sequence of Ebola tikwit was virtually identical to Ebola Zaire.
		Now, how could that happen?
		What do you need to have happen for a virus that mutates very, very rapidly, that would go over a 20, would travel over 20 years over 1,000 kilometers away?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying they absolutely should have found a different DNA sequence, that it was the same is too coincidental.
unidentified		Absolutely.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		The only thing, the answer to the question, what do you need is you need a refrigerator.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yeah, that's the trouble with viruses.
		They're too easily kept and too easily, I guess, reproduced.
		So it's pretty frightening.
		There's no question about it.
		And you're convinced there is somebody.
		Let's talk about Ebola for a second.
		It seems to burn very hot, very fast.
		And I've used this analogy.
		Tell me if it's correct.
		I live out here in the desert, and we have a little bit of brush here and a little bit of brush there and not very dense brush.
		So if there's an outbreak, if something catches on fire, it burns very brightly, very fast, because it's very dry here in the desert, but it's not close enough to any other brush generally to catch it on fire.
		So fires don't spread over a wide area in the desert.
		You've got a little fire and it's out.
		Now, in the forest, if it's dry, we've got a different situation, one match, and it goes up like crazy and consumes a very wide area.
		Is that kind of like Ebola?
		In other words, it'll take out a little village and just about everything dies.
		But if it were to ever get loose in a population center outside Washington, D.C., Reston, Virginia would be a good place to talk about.
		If it were to get loose there, what would have happened?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, Ebola is fairly rapidly brought under control through the use of universal precautions for infection control.
		Gloves and masks and goggles and sterilization and disinfection methods.
		You can treat the Ebola patients very well using those techniques so long as you don't get a blood-to-blood transmission.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about airborne?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the issue.
		I'll show you in emerging viruses, AIDS and Ebola, or I show you the viruses even that they cause to be airborne.
		How would you like to have an airborne leukemia virus?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not that outrageous because the Reston Virginia case, though it was not infectious to humans, damn well was airborne.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		See, I show you that Landon and Bionetics Research Laboratory researchers, including Dr. Robert Garrell, created a combination of influenza and para-influenza viruses with acute human leukemia viruses.
		They recombined everything.
unidentified		You know, a couple weeks ago that movie Pandora's Clock?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		It was the story of a virus getting into an airplane, and then they wouldn't allow the airplane to land anywhere.
		They ended up trying to shoot it out of the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, correct.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, a reporter from the Miami Herald called me and they said to me, Dr. Harvard, you're just written this book, Emerging Viruses, Azerbaijan.
		You're an expert.
		He said, what do you think?
		Is this possible that you could create a virus, a respiratory virus, Airborne virus that could cause heart failure.
		I said to him, That's absolutely correct.
		There's no doubt in my mind that you could do that.
		So he types that in.
		I said, Now, can I talk to you off the record for a minute?
		He says, Yes.
		I said, I can even tell you who made those viruses.
		He says, What?
		I said, Yeah.
		Those types of viruses were made by Mark Chittigny and Alfred Hellman from the Atomic Energy Commission.
		He says, What?
		How do you know that?
unidentified		I said, I have their contracts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Made with what intent?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, these were made for, again, the different reasons that we talked about earlier.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Biological weapons, research, cancer research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would people create a weapon, a virus, a killer virus, for which they had no cure?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		You know something?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		I suspect they have cures for AIDS that they're not releasing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
		There's a lot of evidence that would suggest that.
		A mass amount of circumstantial evidence and some scientific evidence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No matter how dark your motivations with regard to creation of a biological weapon, it seems to me that unless you were completely suicidal, you'd create some defense for yourself and your friends and whoever.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		And unless you had financial motives, you would want everybody to have this defense free.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean everybody you wanted to have it?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		So, you know, going back to why did Ebola Kikwit break out?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Because based on the evidence that I write about this in Emerging Viruses AIDS in Ebola, at that specific time, Dingrich et al.
		was threatening to take away $150 million out of the CDC's coffers, and they wanted their own airplanes.
		And at the same time, the World Health Organization wanted to implement the Rockefeller University plans for an additional $500 million to establish 14 disease surveillance outposts on the fringes of the tropical rainforests.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying that this was done in order to get funding?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Great publicity.
		Great publicity.
		And that's what you use.
		You read the media.
		See, as a media expert, behavioral science expert, you can always look for the motives in the press releases.
		You know that 95% of the news that you read is based on a press release.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a terribly serious allegation.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Unfortunately, based on all of the scientific facts, as well as the circumstantial evidence, any fool would have to speculate that that is a seriously plausible theory and explanation for the events.
		Again, remember, it was the same strain, virtually identical, to Ebola Zaire.
		How could a same virus that mutates extremely rapidly with no known host species go 20 years over a thousand miles and come out the same exact virus or virtually identical?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, what you're saying is so close to outbreak that it's not even funny.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		None of it's funny, but I mean, it really is very close to the investigative side of outbreak, isn't it?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, Robin Cook is a physician.
		He did exactly what I did.
		He went into the research literature and he started to dig.
		And what I found in the government documents and the scientific reports would make anyone's hair stand on end.
		I mean, if you're basically normal human being with basic loving motives and ethics and morals, you can't conceive of what these people have done.
		You just cannot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If Ebola were to become airborne and get loose in this country, what would happen?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, Ebola would probably break out in the areas that it was released and it would quickly burn itself out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it might take a city with it?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		There's no doubt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doctor, hold tight.
		We'll be back to you after the top of the hour.
		Dr. Len Horowitz is my guest.
		More on the way.
unidentified		More on the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Leonard Horowitz is a Harvard graduate.
		He's here talking to us about viruses.
		And I asked about Ebola prior to the hour, top of the hour.
		He said, well, if Ebola became airborne and got loose in one of our cities, it would quickly burn out after taking one of our cities.
		And I suppose then there'd be even more funding, wouldn't there, Doctor?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Indeed.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		You know, before we begin, you know, I neglected to ask you if we might give your listeners information on where they might get the book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
unidentified		Great.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		The information is so important, and I think we'd like to get the documents into the people's hands.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, of course.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		There is a toll-free number that people can call to get the book.
		It's 1-800-336-9266.
		That's 1-800-336-9266.
		The book is $29.95, and for people who can't afford that, they can go to their local libraries and ask the libraries to bring it in.
		Also, the bookstores have it on their bookstore computers right now, so it could be ordered.
		There's going to be a little backorder.
		The book has been really selling hot, like hotcakes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know it has.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a big book, too, 563 pages hardback.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And, you know, we produce it.
		It's a beautiful kind of library quality book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It absolutely is, yes.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		And then for lots of free information, I noticed that you talked about your website, and I'm going to have to link to your website, and I hope you'll link to ours.
		We have a fabulous website that exists.
		It's called tetrahedron.org.
		And we link to all the people who are making a difference in this field, taking political action, looking at issues like AIDS, chronic fatigue, immune dysfunction syndromes.
		And there's lots of free downloadable information, including how to boost your immune system naturally, information given to us by Joan Priestley, who's been a physician who's been treating very successfully over 67 AIDS chronic fatigue patients.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, doctor, we've got, as you mentioned, we do have a very large website up with just millions of hits.
		And so we'd be glad to do it.
		It's www.forward slash forward slash www.tetrahedron.org.
		Is that correct?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my webmaster is out there, and I'm sure he'll take care of that, and we'll get it up here in minutes.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Appreciate it, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
		Now, I asked you what would happen if Ebola became airborne and got loose in a city, and you told me.
		I guess AIDS is a it's constantly changing on its own, isn't it?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		It mutates about 5%, a little bit more than 5%, when it jumps from one person to another.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Every time it jumps?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		Now, that's interesting, see, because most people don't know that that alone is an indication that this is a new virus.
		Because older viruses, they stabilize.
		They don't mutate so rapidly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If AIDS ever became airborne, what would the result be?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, it's hard to predict that.
		There are, you know, there's the incubation periods, and then AIDS itself is, I mean, it's a blood-borne pathogen, so it's a difficult virus to go through the air.
		But like I said to you, if you cross the AIDS virus with an influenza virus, or like they did, and we have the documentation to prove, they crossed the leukemia, the human leukemia virus, with the influenza respiratory virus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you vector it.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		You mutate it.
		That's what they did.
		That's exactly what they did.
		And here's the disinformation.
		They tell you that we did not have the, quote, molecular genetic technologies available to us to do this.
		We couldn't have made it, said Dr. Gallo to me recently on a telephone interview.
		He says, we couldn't have done it because we didn't have the technology to do this until 1975.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1975?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then we do now.
unidentified		Well, see, oh, yes, we certainly do, Gallo, but he's lying.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		The bottom line is all of his mentors had published, and he himself published doing it.
		They published it was possible.
		They did it even in biological weapons, the laboratories.
		In fact, the definitive text on biological weapons, Oxford University Press, contributed by David Baltimore, who's the grandfather to the National Academy of Sciences, National Research Council, which if you read the Stricker material, that document literally says that it was the National Academy of Sciences, National Research Council, informed the Department of Defense that they could do this work for $2 million a year for five years.
		They could develop immune system ravaging viruses for germ warfare.
		And that document not only shows that they were doing it before 75, but also the textbook published by Oxford University Press says the same thing.
		They were doing it between 1965 and 1975, very crudely.
		And it's like, you know, they're saying that Alexander Graham Bell did not need fiber optics to make his first telephone call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		See, they didn't need molecular genetic engineering capabilities to produce AIDS-like viruses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there might be a skeptic about what you're saying, but I'm not one of them because our government just got finished admitting how it gave children and people who were ill plutonium to see what it would do.
		Any government that would do that certainly would not stop at producing a virus capable of depressing or even killing the immune system.
		No question about it.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		And look what on your news report about how they've been covering up the flight crashes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No question about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They would do, and I'm sure they, whatever can be done, you know, in some lab somewhere, they're doing it.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's as simple as that.
		They're doing it.
		Whatever we acquire the technical ability to do, we seem to do.
		So I had not long ago Dr. Joyce Riley.
		I bet you know who she is.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		A good friend of mine.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		She's a wonderful lady.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I had her on the program, and she talked about the Gulf War so-called syndrome.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Cover up there, too.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Major leak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, she, as a matter of fact, it winds into what you're talking about because she said the symptoms are so damn nonspecific as to lead one to believe that it is some sort of biological immune suppressor.
		Maybe not AIDS, but something very much like AIDS.
		And she said that not only are the Gulf War vets catching it, but their families, even their friends are beginning to get this, whatever it is.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		That's very true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you read Dr. Nicholson's work, and I believe Nicholson is the most advanced researcher in the field of Gulf War syndrome, and he's been now removed, politically removed from MD Anderson Cancer Research Center.
		We've just placed on our website his new address in our FTP downloadable public access files, his new address in Southern California.
		But he had come out in the American Journal of Occupational Medicine and Toxicology published finding in some 55% of Gulf War Syndrome veterans a mycoplasma, which is a typical, it's a respiratory virus.
		A lot of people get it, causes pneumonia, but it's not such a hard to treat problem typically.
		But he found a unique strain of it that has the capacity to bury itself deep in the cells.
		And he found this in 55% of the Gulf War Syndrome deaths.
		And he found in addition to that, 30% of those mycoplasmas had a unique gene attached to it, spliced to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		It was the HIV-1 envelope gene, the AIDS virus envelope gene, allowed it to go deep into the cells.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Splice to it.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, that's exactly what he and his wife, Nancy, are talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, is there any way that could have occurred naturally?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		No, that's their point.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Their point is the only place this could have happened was in a lab.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you contend this, too, then, is engineered?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And again, it could have happened through contaminated vaccines.
		Now, this is fascinating because the week after, it was on a Friday.
		You ever notice how the media, when the government has to release a story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Always comes out at the end of the day on Friday.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		You got it.
		Sure.
		Have you noticed that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		It's incredible.
		At any rate, that's when they released Nicholson and my co-author, the fellow who wrote the forward to my book, Emerging Viruses, AIDS in a Bowl, is W. John Martin.
		He's one of the world's leading vaccine contamination analysts who worked as the FDA's Bureau of Biologics Director between 1976 and 1980 in charge of testing human vaccines for viral contaminations.
		And those two folks had spent weeks going to traveling at their own expense to Washington to testify in front of the Gulf War investigators.
		And they finally released that information on a Friday afternoon saying that most plausibly what gave rise to Gulf War syndrome was contaminated vaccines, a new 17-component vaccine that a company in South Texas had produced and was given to virtually all of the military personnel.
		And that that was the only thing that could explain why some people who went over there did not get it, even though they were exposed to the chemical waste dumps.
		And some of the people who didn't go over there got Gulf War syndrome.
		Because what this vaccine contamination did in some of the vaccine lots, which were contaminated, it caused immune suppression in the individuals that got the contaminations, which then, when these people took multiple drugs, it interacted badly with their system, or they then got exposed to the chemical waste explosion, fallout, and they developed the chemical sensitivities, the multiple chemical sensitivities.
		So they came out with this information.
		It came out on Friday.
		Now, what happened the following Monday was horrifying.
		All of a sudden, the Pentagon announces a reversal of tradition and what they had already decided.
		They were going to now administer to 1.5 million military personnel a new anthrax vaccine to protect all military personnel against anthrax attacks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I recall that, yes.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Now, I found that extremely horrifying based on the mass amount of evidence.
		I mean, we haven't even gotten into the social political background yet.
		And I talk about this.
		I mean, we haven't even launched into the most horrifying aspects of my book, Emerging Viruses, AIDS and Ebola.
		We haven't even talked yet about the fact that today's vaccines that we're giving our children by law, we're required to give our children, are littered with monkey virus contaminants as well as other animal viruses.
		We haven't even begun to talk about the population control agenda.
		We haven't begun to talk about the fact that the same people who have been promoting population control are the same people who have been behind the development of AIDS-like Ebola-like viruses, as well as the contaminated blood, as well as the contaminated vaccines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let's talk a little bit about the vaccines.
		That's horrible.
		You're saying that our children's vaccines are contaminated with monkey viruses?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And, you know, praise the Lord.
		This past week, if your listeners simply go out, if they don't believe me, that's fine.
		Just go out to your newsstand right now and get Money Magazine December 96 issue if they're not already sold out.
		Because that has the first good article exposing the scam.
		To this very day, the FDA has to turn a blind eye to as many as 100 simian monkey viruses per dose of the oral polio vaccine that we are by law required to give our children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How does it get in there?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Because the manufactured, the vaccine is manufactured as it was in the 50s in monkey kidney tissues that are fully contaminated with simian virus 40, simian cytomegalum viruses, herpes viruses, Epstein-Barr viruses, all in the monkeys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good Lord.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we're injecting this into our children.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
		And what's worse than that is that the FDA and the authorities have known this.
		And they've known since the 60s that this was a potential cancer risk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then, what do you do with your children?
		What do you tell the authorities?
		I mean, you're supposed to have your children vaccinated by law, aren't you?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Now, as a public health professional, I can no longer, in good conscience, recommend people get vaccinated with any live viral vaccine until there is a thorough, independent congressional investigation into all of the documented published facts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, those are the children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you about when you become an adult and you get older or they're very young, both of those are generally recommended every year to get flu shots.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To avoid this latest strain or that latest strain of the flu.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about those shots?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		My mother died of the swine flu vaccine.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		She was one of tens of thousands of people who developed what was called Gillian-Beret syndrome, which is a common vaccine problem.
unidentified		Again, Money Magazine covers that fact also.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		It's a progressive neurological, immunological and neurological thing.
		What happens is that your own white blood cells can no longer distinguish the difference between your own nerve sheath, the myelin nerve sheath, and something foreign.
		So your own white blood cells start to eat away at your own nerves.
		And that's what my mother developed.
		She developed some paralysis.
		She could barely walk, lots of fatigue.
		And then what happened is shortly thereafter, she developed cancer and died.
		Now, last night in my seminar here in California, I had a woman who said, that's exactly what happened to my mother.
		So the swine flu vaccines or the flu vaccines.
		Now, I mean, I don't want to jump ahead.
		I mean, we probably, before we answer this question, look into the deeper, I think we need to prepare your listeners with going into an in-depth, more in-depth view as to who these people are that are doing this and what their driving motives are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		Why don't we do exactly that then?
		Who are these people and why are they doing it?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, you remember the Strutker document again, going back to that 1970 Department of Defense appropriations request for $10 million.
		Yes.
		That was Henry Kissinger's order to Melvin Laird.
		How do you like that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't like it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so I presume, and I'm going to probably jump ahead when I do this, but I presume you're going to say the reason this is basically being done is population control.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now let's go into it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		When Kissinger took over as NSC advisor under Richard Nixon in 1968, he almost immediately ordered Laird to do a reassessment of America's biological weapons capabilities.
		The reassessment came in, and he selected the option for developing these things.
		If you look at the history, how Kissinger got to that position to become the world's nuclear weapons guru, and of course these viruses he was looking for as alternatives to nuclear weapons.
		How did he get to that position?
		Well, I trace that in the books.
		The bottom line is that it was during his stint at the Council of Foreign Relations that Nelson Rockefeller made Kissinger the director of the Council of Foreign Relations Nuclear Weapons Study Group.
		And Kissinger's intelligence association goes back to World War II.
		His family left Germany three months before Kristallnacht.
		He goes back six years later as General Boeing's chief German translator.
		General Boeing was Joint Intelligence Commission director and director or godfather to what was called Project Paperclip, the exfiltration of approximately 2,000 Nazis out of pre-post-war and post-war Nazi Germany under the CIA.
		First it was the OSS, then it became a cover organization for what was called the German Intelligence Gamer Order.
		The CIA was founded.
		And many of these Nazis were brought into the United States under Project Papercliffe, paid $65,000 a year plus benefits in 1948 to serve American military and industrial interests rather than go to the Soviets.
		Now, it was Kissinger who was the intelligencer's chief Nazi hunting director.
		He was the trainer of the American intelligence assets at the European Command School over Abergao.
		And he trained the Nazi hunters to seek out and find Nazis, not for war crime trials, but for service to American intelligence and American industry.
		Among the people that they brought over was Eric Traub, Hitler's top biological weapons developer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just our kind of guy, I guess, huh?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		And we'll take it from there when we get back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, fine.
		Stay right there.
		Dr. Len Horowitz, Emerging Viruses, AIDS Andy Bulla, his latest book.
		And again, we will instruct you on how to get it.
		I do want to notify you already.
		We have a link to his site.
		So if you want to go up to our worldwide website, there is a link there to Dr. Horowitz's site.
		If you can handle the information, it's available through www.artbell.com.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's try an interesting approach.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, how important is population control?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, population control is actually being debated as whether that is a major issue.
		It depends on who you speak with.
		If you speak to Henry Kissinger, George Bush, Nelson Rockefeller, all the presidents since virtually George Bush was in 1968 in front of Congress heralding the need for drastic reductions in their third world populations, you find all the, you know, there's a tremendous amount of belief that we need to reduce the populations.
		Let me go back, with your permission, and talk about Kissinger's connection then to Eric Traub and bringing the Nazis over.
		Where we left it off was that Kissinger brought in Hitler's, well, you know, Project Paperclip brought in Eric Traub and his assistant.
		Now, this is the world's leading virologist.
		He is Hitler's top biological weapons developer.
		He is brought in by the CIA, given clearance, and goes to work for the Navy Biological Research Laboratory, which becomes affiliated with the University of California, Berkeley, where Dr. Peter Duisberg currently has been hailing from.
		Now, they initially set up one of the first major departments for biological weapons development programs in the United States.
		And additional people that Americans know very little about, very little facts are really promoted.
		But the fact is, Klaus Barbie, other people that were brought in under this project and harbored by the CIA and American intelligence were people like Klaus Barbie, the butcher of Leon, Joseph Mengele, the angel of death, and virtually all of the top Nazis and all the money that they held were brought out of the rat line, which was an underground railroad that went from Germany to Rome, Italy.
		And the money was laundered.
		Half of the Nazi war chest was laundered through the Chase Manhattan Bank, Paris branch, Rockefeller's Bank, Paris branch, which remained open throughout the German occupation of France.
		And the other half was laundered through the Vatican.
		And with the help of two popes, many of the Nazis were given clearance and the money was laundered.
		Now, Kissinger's Rockefeller CR Connection to Population Control goes even back further than that.
		You might be horrified to learn about what I'm about to tell you.
		Remember the racial hygiene laws that were very prominent in the 1920s in the United States and the South?
		Sure.
		In other words, your listeners probably can't remember this, but in the 20s and early 30s, in some states in the South, you couldn't intermarry.
		It was against the law, you'd be arrested.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		And it was based upon, what these laws were based upon, was Rockefeller-funded studies, scientific, allegedly Scientific studies that showed definitively that black people were genetically inferior to whites.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, be that as it may, I believe in surveys of black people in America, they fairly, by a fairly solid majority, believe that AIDS and other diseases were specifically and are being specifically targeted at them.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I have no doubt that that's a clear possibility, if not a high probability.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And those laws you're suggesting were in place to ensure that it didn't get us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that right?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, no.
		Here's where I'm going with this.
		You see, what I'm saying is that there was a population control agenda begun early in the 1920s.
		And here's where it went.
		It started virtually with the research funding with the Rockefellers.
		Hitler, when Hitler published Mein Kampf in 1932 and then started his rise to power in Germany, he cites in Mein Kampf, he says, I'm not suggesting anything extraordinary.
		The fact we know that the Jews are genetically inferior to other white people, blacks are obviously genetically inferior because of the research that is ongoing now in the United States showing that this is the case.
		So he was looking for international support for his, quote, racial hygiene agenda, and he got it.
		He was supported virtually by every country throughout the world, and he was even funded by even some Jewish bankers, the Warburgs, other people.
		I mean, it wasn't simply the Jews that supported him, but he was supported by virtually everyone in the world because he embraced the Rockefeller's research.
		Now, that led to all of the studies being done in the concentration camps, the horrible studies, where they jabbed people's eyes with needles to extract eye color samples and then genetically determined what genes were related to these things.
		They did incredibly horrible studies there.
		And that these, interestingly enough, Rockefeller's partner, where much of this research was being funded also, Rockefeller's partner was, of course, Rockefeller owned Standard Oil.
		And their partner was IG Farben, which was the company that used the slaves, slave labor, took the Holocaust victims and used them as slave labor, and they held the patent on the gas to kill them.
		That's Rockefeller's partner.
		At any rate, they then continued that research in genetics, and it was just completed in what was called the Human Genome Project at Cold Springs Harbor.
		And you've been reading about it in the newspapers now.
		They have literally determined every gene sequence in a human being.
		They've mapped it all out.
		They know every amino acid sequence, every DNA sequence, and every disease predisposition in every race of people.
		This is what started in the 20s, advanced in Hitler's regime, continued by Rockefeller funding and other funding at Cold Springs Harbor under the eugenics program and the Human Genome Project, just completed.
		Now what you're reading in your newspapers every day is gene for Parkinson's disease discovered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Gene for women's breast cancer in Jewish women discovered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Gene for black predisposition for Ebola infection discovered.
		Gene for sickle cell anemia in black men discovered.
		Gene for sarcoma in Jewish men of European descent discovered.
		This is what we are now reading every single day in our newspapers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's true.
		How much research is being done into not just discovery of these genes and the unraveling of the human genome, but into manipulation of them?
		I guess with regards to AIDS research, they have begun and other research.
		They have begun actual experimentation now, open experimentation, have they not, into trying to cure diseases with that information?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly where I was going.
		Thank you, Art.
		As a matter of fact, yesterday, the day before yesterday, you saw in the newspaper, they actually came out in the newspapers and said AIDS virus is currently being used for gene therapy.
		In other words, they're now going to be using the AIDS virus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, to vector in other things.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Now, so that's what Dr. Gallo says.
		He says, since 1975, they've had the ability to produce designer viruses that can trigger those specific disease predispositions.
		Now, let's go one more step.
		The fact is that last year, a year ago, July, we talked about Kissinger's association with Rockefeller with the Council of Foreign Relations.
		And it's incredible.
		The vast majority of Americans are so blind.
		They have no clue that the Council of Foreign Relations is not a government agency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it isn't.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		It is a group of the most wealthy industrialists that determine international policy, economic policy, and other policies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but you are arguing a very dark motivation here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying that they are literally designing diseases, and I know where you're going, to limit population or even more horrifically, to conduct genocide on certain ethnic or racial groups.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		That is the alarm that I found in emerging viruses AIDS and Ebola.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		And I lay out all of this mass amount of historic evidence that would suggest that this is a highly plausible theory that should be considered immediately or else we may just end up dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much possibility is there that one of these things that either develops, emerges, or is let loose, any of the above, will get us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when I say get us, I mean go racing around and kill millions, even billions of people.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Art, it is getting us.
		We are dying.
		As I go around the country and do my seminars, I ask for a raise of hands of how many people Know people who have died of leukemia, specific types of leukemia that weren't even present, you know, that didn't even exist until the 1970s and 80s.
		I show you graphs of how the specific cancers and what cancers have been going off the roof: prostate cancer, breast cancer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, may I ask you about that?
		I heard a statistic that still blows my mind to this day.
		It was released, I don't know, as much as a year ago.
		In a recent study, they said that men, that cancer for men not related to smoking, very important line, since World War II has increased by 300%.
		How can that be?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, most of that increase has been since 1970s.
		In 1970s, it started to rise.
		In the 1980s, it started to go way up.
		And then in the 90s, it's skyrocketing.
		Do you know why that's happening most plausibly?
		No, I don't.
		Because we've not just had AIDS outbreaks, Eubola outbreaks.
		We've had virtually every cancer virus outbreak from these lunatics laboratories.
		They were working specifically with prostate cancer viruses, with breast cancer viruses, with leukemia, lymphoma cancer viruses.
		These were the specific viruses that they worked with.
		And in fact, most of their, see, these are some of their smoking guns.
		Do you know that the specific cancer complex that they researched, they spent most of their money and time researching during the 1960s under this highly funded, largely secret special virus cancer program, was specifically the leukemia, lymphoma, sarcoma, immune dysfunction cancer complex that never existed in human beings before 1978 with the onset of the first AIDS cases.
		That is precisely what the viruses that they were developing to produce.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, I could imagine that some of these things they were working on got out in various ways that were not intentional.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you imagine that?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		I say that that is extremely plausible, and most scientists, including Dr. Robert Gallo himself, has said that that is extremely plausible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then were spread through various means, bloodborne means and otherwise, just the way everything else spreads.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		And now we have one out of every three people dying of cancer, where it used to be one out of 20.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		President Clinton recently announced that all children shall be vaccinated by the year 2000.
		And that's a little worrisome in view of what you're saying.
		And you agree that it is worrisome?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		I'm horrified.
		I'm absolutely horrified.
		You have to be a fool not to open your eyes.
		You know, I'm offering people, your show here tonight, I acknowledge you for hosting it, is providing people with a flashlight to go through a very, very dark night.
		As a listener, you can take this information and throw it out and not think anything of it.
		And you're welcome to walk in the darkness alone.
		Or you can open your eyes to the facts.
		See, the whole population control agenda has been furthered by the Rockefeller military medical industrial complex and that the vaccines, see, that 1974 experimental vaccine that I told you about earlier most plausibly brought AIDS to the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		That was produced by Merck-Sharp and Dome Laboratories in cooperation with the Food and Drug Administration, the Centers for Disease Control, and the National Institute for Allergies and Infectious Diseases.
		These are the same people that are promoting massive inoculation programs.
		They have known, we have documented facts obtained through some of it, through the Freedom of Information Act, that they knew that these vaccines were contaminated, and they still know that these vaccines are contaminated.
		So you have to begin to wonder, what is the agenda?
		It's either money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the inclination of the skeptics would be to say, oh, come on.
		Conspiracy, conspiracy everywhere here.
		They knew they were contaminated.
		I just can't buy into that.
		But the fact of the matter is, we now know that a lot of blood was contaminated.
		And in various parts of the world, they were very well aware that blood was contaminated with AIDS, and they continued to produce the anti-clotting agents with massive amounts of blood they knew was contaminated and spread AIDS like crazy.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Now, who was associated with the decision to spread that blood?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You tell me.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		How about Lawrence Rockefeller?
		You see, Lawrence Rockefeller was the director of the New York City Blood Council.
		That was the council of doctors that put together the New York City Blood Bank.
		That were the international blood bankers.
		Those were the people that decided to send out to 10,000 hemophiliacs and countless others throughout the world that contaminated blood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What you've got to do is prove at what level that knowledge reached and where the decision was made to continue to distribute.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what you should do?
unidentified		Go out.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		If you're in New York, you can go out to your newsstands right now and you can get the New York magazine, the title of which, the cover is Bad Blood, and goes into how still to this very day, New Yorkers are being contaminated massively from the New York City blood bank,
		as well as they're shipping it overseas as well, and that the vice president is still associated with that, or the vice president of Chase Manhattan Bank is still virtually running that organization.
		That's in this week's New York magazine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What can you tell me about hepatitis C?
		I have an acquaintance who just found out that she has hepatitis C and has apparently quite a bit of damage to her liver.
		And she believes that she acquired it around 1970 before they, I guess, really had a good test for it.
		And it's spreading like crazy, too, isn't it?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Yeah, all the hepatitis viruses are coming about again.
		Here's the story.
		History on Hepatitis in the United States, hepatitis virus research.
		And this relates to the AIDS issue tremendously.
		And I'll now tell you how the vaccine that most plausibly brought AIDS to the world got contaminated.
		Saul Krugman from New York University Medical Center, another documented biological weapons contracting firm in 1965, started to study what was called the Australian antigen.
		That was the hepatitis B virus.
		He used as his study population Willowbrook State School Mentally Retarded Children.
		He inoculated hundreds of children.
		Many of them died with what he thought was a cancer virus, hepatitis B. And so many of them developed hepatitis, died.
		And then by 1970, he was advanced in his research.
		He felt he was close to developing a vaccine.
		He then handed the research over to Merck Sharpe and Dome, a fellow by the name of Maurice Hilleman, who is a world-leading vaccine developer for the military as well as the largest pharmaceutical company in the world, Merck.
		Now they worked, as I said, with the FDA, the Centers for Disease Control, and National Institute for Allergies and Infectious Diseases to develop four subtypes of an experimental hepatitis B vaccine that was used in different parts of the world.
		And what they did is they pulled the viruses out of the children.
		They tried to grow it in the children.
		They couldn't grow enough in the children, they reported.
		They then tried to grow the viruses on cultures.
		They couldn't grow it in the cultures.
		They ended up saying that they had to grow it and pull it because they needed massive amounts of virus.
		They ended up growing it in contaminated monkeys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Chimpanzees supplied by Lytton Bionetics Research Laboratories whose labs maintained numerous AIDS-like and Ebola-like viruses and a laundry list of viruses I reprint in emerging viruses, AIDS and Ebola.
		You are horrified.
		You see everything like airborne leukemia viruses and all sorts of other mixes.
		So they then grow these viruses in the chimps, and of course any AIDS researcher will tell you the closest thing going to the human AIDS virus, HIV-1, the simian immunodeficiency virus from the chimpanzee.
		They then extract these live hepatitis B viruses grown in contaminated monkeys.
		And of course, then when they extract it, they extract all of the live viruses that that monkey contains, such as the herpes viruses, the Epstein-Barr viruses, the cytomegalo viruses, the herpes B viruses.
		Of course, all of these are associated with chronic fatigue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		And then they inoculate these viruses into the Willow Brook Children again, the gay men in New York City, the blacks in Central Africa, and then they use those people's serum to make the vaccines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		Have we lost our minds?
		Has it gone too far?
		I know you're out there like a stranger fighting in the wilderness.
		Has it gone too far?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		It's a done deal.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		I mean, this thing is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a done deal.
		All right, Doctor, I'm going to hold you over for one more hour.
		I want to take some calls from listeners.
		Are you up for that?
unidentified		Yeah, for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
unidentified		Give people the 800 number again on the website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We will do that when we come back.
unidentified		All right, great.
unidentified		Thanks, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stay right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A done deal, huh, folks?
unidentified		I see trees, some green.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Red roses too.
		I see them blue for me and you.
		And I think to myself, what a wonderful world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my guest again, Dr. Len Horowitz, and we will in a moment, in fact, let us do that now before I read this facts.
		I've got a fax for the good doctor.
		But first, Doctor, your new book, Emerging Viruses, AIDS, and Ebola, it is a big book.
		How do they get it?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, people can get it through a toll-free number by calling 1-800-336-9266.
		That's 1-800-336-9266.
		Or they can go to the library if they can't afford the $29.95 plus shipping and ask the library to get one.
		The librarians will get it for you.
		Or you can go to any bookstore in the United States and you have to order it.
		You know, because the book is not a very politically correct book, you know, Art.
		The buyers have not been buying it for the chains.
		The independent stores are buying it, but the chains are not.
		So, you know, I could use your listeners' help and support by just going into the chains and saying, hey, could you bring in this book?
		It's a really important work book.
		And that will help a lot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right, go ahead.
		I'm sorry.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		And then also for your folks on the web, they'll get a 20% discount if they connect from your website to ours and order the book over the website via email.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		That's www.artbell.com.
		Let me read you a facts from a former research immunologist.
		It says, Doctor, the main reason I left laboratory and clinical research is the possibility of contracting a disease, not just AIDS or hepatitis, but an odd autoimmune disease.
		After 15 years in the lab, it was alarming how many of my associates were contracting autoimmune diseases, diseases that attack their nerves or the lining of their blood vessels, etc.
		Many researchers contracted, I believe it's microplasmic diseases from cell culturing.
		These diseases were being routinely explained as genetically linked, but it is quite clear to me that they are an occupational hazard.
		Too many viruses, varrokines, microplasmic infections floating around in the air and environment in a laboratory and in the clinical setting.
		I walked away and became a medical writer.
		I don't believe these diseases are genetically linked at all, but rather manufactured.
		And by the way, I agree, don't get a flu shot.
		They're processed too quickly with too many risk factors.
		Signed, Denise.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, you just heard it from an expert, and that's exactly what we said.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's exactly what I said.
unidentified		I know.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		You know, you heard it.
		I mean, I can't tell you the number of researchers that I find that have left labs like Denise.
		They are appalled.
		I had another one in my seminar last night, a brilliant doctor, who said she just got fed up.
		She was working under Fort Dietrich biological weapons programs.
		Carth Nicholson had worked at Fort Dietrich also.
		I mean, these people are not fools.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, doctor, we've got a lot of people who want to speak with you, so let's try and take a few calls.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Dr. Len Horowitz.
		Hello.
unidentified		About two years ago, there was a book that said that blacks and Latinos and Indians were inferior to whites and Asians.
		And I had the feeling that that kind of research in a new society could be used to turn people of color into serfs.
		What's your idea of that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sir, are you referring to the study?
		I think the bell curve.
		Yeah, that's that.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what he's talking about.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I see that.
		I conclude that that's part of a mass propaganda campaign that is very clear if you look at it.
		It started very, I mean, it was starting already before the bell curve.
		You remember the Rodney King beatings?
		Those people in L.A. would never have rided had they not seen that thousands and thousands of times over and over again in the television.
		You have it today with the O.J. Simpson case.
		It says never in the history has American racial relations been so bad.
		You have all of this is being drummed up by the media.
		The bell curve is another fraudulent type of document.
unidentified		Can I ask you who funded that research for that study?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		That's a good question.
		I mean, all right, we're going to talk about the hot zone, and we're going to talk about that.
		And it's probably, I haven't researched the bell curve, but that's a good point.
		I should.
		Because when you come back down to who funded the hot zone, it's the population controlling people.
		It's the Rockefellers.
		It's the Sloan Foundation.
		Let's talk about this for a second.
		Is that okay, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to get as many calls as I can in.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Okay, real quick then.
		The hot zone.
		Richard Presta's book that alleged that these viruses are coming out of Bat Guano at the bottom of Kittim Cave and we're infringing in the tropical rainforest and these bugs are just jumping up in us.
		Well, it's garbage.
		It was funded by the Sloan Foundation, which funded MIT studies for $200,000 a year during the 1960s under the, quote, neurosciences umbrella for, quote, public management, mass persuasion, technologies, research, brainwashing.
		That's who funded that book, The Hot Zone.
		And their purpose was to let people know that these viruses are going to be coming.
		Now, Kidd and Cave is a metaphor for written bionetics research laboratories in northwest Uganda.
		The Sloan Foundation worked intimately with the Rockefeller Foundation to fund population control studies.
		Now, the other night, another example of how subtle this disinformation is and the black-white racial violent agenda is, that not only are the Muslims being blamed for bringing in Ebola viruses and releasing them in the United States, but in that movie we talked about, Pandora's Clock, you had a white pirate and a black co-pirate, and if the two had guns or knives, they would have killed each other.
		Again, all these themes are very, very subtle.
		What did you have last week?
		Texaco, not letting black people into bathrooms.
		Why do you think these are constantly coming out?
		It's because there is an agenda.
		The media is largely controlled.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it controlled or is it just a sort of a herd instinct type thing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, I think a lot of the media has become lazy and they just rip and read these days and they are reading what is being given to them.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly right.
		See, the government, I wrote an article about this a couple of years ago.
		The government has 10,500 and some odd people every day inundating the mass media with press releases.
		Taxpayer-funded press releases that literally tell the herd, the sheep, which way to go.
		Now, it's incredible the level of denial and indifference you can create by mass public persuasion programs, mass media.
		It's true.
		And, you know, it's like the Jews walked into those Nazi concentration camps, literally after years of being tortured, believing that they were going to take delousing showers.
		I mean, I believe that today's, I mean, based on the evidence, today's public health departments, physicians' offices are the gas chambers.
		And the vaccines are very plausibly the gas delivering the deadly toxins.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on here with Dr. Len Horowitz.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, this is Frank in New Orleans listening on WSMB.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Chris.
unidentified		Dr. Horis said that is it in his book about the blood diseases and hepatitis C?
unidentified		My sister had to have two liver transplants because of the disease.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hepatitis C?
unidentified		Of hepatitis C, and they traced it back to blood that she was given.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, yep, yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, doctor, do you cover that in emerging viruses?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I go over all of the different viruses that were being developed and tested in all the labs in the special virus cancer program.
		And they were focusing the hepatitis research, as I mentioned.
		And I go over that in Northwest Uganda and New York City.
		That's where this was done.
		And, of course, New York City is the hotbed of all this research because it's the home of the Rockefellers.
		It's the home of the New York City Blood Council.
		I mean, it's interesting that the fellow, the French fellow who allowed 1,800 HMA tainted blood samples to go out for $20 million in France, he's doing time.
		But yet Lawrence Rockefeller and his boys at the New York City Blood Bank, you know, they don't even get an honorable mention on the 60 Minutes episode the other day.
		It was the government, the undefinable bureaucracy, the government, that knew that the blood was tainted, that allowed 10,000 hemophiliacs to get this virus.
		I mean, I cannot believe that people are not out in front of Chase Manhattan Bank in New York burning Rockefeller in effigy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're really absolutely convinced that he is actively involved in doing this?
		Are you convinced of that?
		I mean, is there absolutely certain absolute evidence of it?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, it's like it's documented facts.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, why aren't you in front of Congress?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe with your help, I'll get there.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		That's my goal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Len Horowitz.
		Hello.
unidentified		Mr. Bale?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay.
		I'm out of Jackson, Tennessee.
		Yes, sir.
		What I'm talking about here is some of these hair samples that they take from people when they have to get a job or something.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		These are sent off to a lab, and I'm sure they're genetic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Genetically tested, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ostensibly for drugs, but of course, once they get genetic information, they've got it all.
unidentified		What I thought was maybe they were trying to limit their liabilities, identifying certain genes that later, in their later years, employees, they could get rid of before they become a liability.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a good question.
		Doctor, how far has it come?
		In other words, if you give somebody a hair sample, ostensibly for a drug test, as you pointed out, they've pretty much unraveled the human genome.
		Do you think they're using this information now, as so many people feared they would, to look carefully at somebody who might contract cancer at age 40 or have heart attack at age 38 or whatever?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		It's probably close to that, if not there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Close to that, if not there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if somebody were to ask you, if you were going to get a job, doctor, and they wanted a hair sample, would you provide it?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, a blood sample, and this is why many of the military personnel are very concerned about giving blood.
		I'm not certain that the hair, it's possible that they could probably test chemicals in the hair, and it's probably you get more information on chemical toxicity or substance abuse from hair samples.
		But I think if you really want information about the human genome, you want to get some blood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want blood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I had heard that hair roots are a rich reservoir of DNA.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's very plausible.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		And I don't doubt that what you're saying could be very, very possible.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Len Horowitz.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Welcome.
unidentified		Oh, hi, Arrow.
unidentified		Bill from Youngstown, Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I have two questions.
		Oh, by the way, the Rockefellers own plantations in South America that had place.
		Nobody wants to believe that.
		My two questions are, number one, Dr. Horowitz, is Dr. Duisberg right when he says that somebody who's HIV positive and lives holistically can live forever and ever and ever?
		And secondly, is there enough information available that some attorneys could start some class action lawsuits for HIV-infected people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a good question.
		If the information is really solid, you would think that it would hold up in court.
		What about it, Doctor?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yep, well, that's right.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		I was in New York meeting with attorneys last week, and that's what's being currently considered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Yep.
		Now, with respect to his first question, you really already answered that.
		You believe that somebody infected with HIV can essentially, if they live correctly, live a normal lifespan?
unidentified		Yes.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		And again, go on the website, and you can see Joyce Riley.
		He's under, in the Research News and Views, there's a public access FTP file.
		It's called RX, Prescription for Immune Dysfunction, Immune Suppression.
		You can download three pages for free of information to boost your immune system and maintain a healthy life, even though you're HIV positive.
		Very, very plausible.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Lynn Hurowitz.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, where are you, please?
unidentified		I'm in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'm going to first ask you to turn your radio off.
unidentified		Yes, I just did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Oklahoma listening to a Kansas station.
		All right.
		What I'm wondering about, I've called before.
		I have lupus, and I'm very interested in what the doctor's been saying.
		I started having symptoms after I had a baby at 40.
		I had taken, they came in and asked me if I'd had three-day measles, and they gave me a shot of rubella, I can't remember the name, I'm nervous too.
		Anyway, but since then, I came down this horrible disease, one of the worst kinds.
		And it's very interesting to me that the things that he's saying are so true because I have literature here that I can quote about lupus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let's ask the doctor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, what is lupus?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the listener is definitely on the right track.
		I think that the situation is she may have been contaminated during a vaccine.
		And like John Martin says that all of the live viral vaccines are suspect.
		The condition that she's specifically suffering with, I'm not tremendously familiar with lupus.
		I know that neurological diseases, I know it to be a neurological disease, but I don't know a lot about it.
		I know that Martin talks about a host of neurological diseases being associated with vaccine contamination.
		I know that, for example, he talks about even attention deficit disorders and hyperactivity disorders in our children.
		And he talks about, he published last year finding, this was published in the Journal of Virology, finding semi-African green monkey gene sequences in a patient suffering from encephalopathy, in a child suffering from encephalopathy.
		And we also look back at the polio vaccines and compare what used to be called polio in many cases now is called meningitis.
		And when I do my seminar, it's extraordinary how many people have had meningitis.
		People knew others of people that have had meningitis.
		And this was relatively new, only since they're like the 60s after the polio vaccines were administered.
		So again, I think your color, I think the cholera is extremely on the right track.
		I mean, it's a horrifying reality.
		As I said, my mother died of this.
		I had a sister-in-law who was a beautiful, and still is a beautiful woman, but she developed chronic rheumatoid arthritis following a hepatitis B inoculation just some four years ago.
		And she can barely hold a baby right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me quickly ask you: you've written a book about emerging diseases.
		What do you expect in the next several years to be emerging?
		What should we look forward to?
		What's coming?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		I think what's coming right now is Ebola because they're telling us that this is coming, and we're hearing that time and time again, Ebola-like viruses and perhaps other plagues, biological weapons that are going to be released.
		They have a tremendous auditarium of viruses that they could release.
		And so I don't, you know, it's hard for me to say what specifically, but, you know, it could be Ebola.
		It could be anthrax.
		It could be bubotic plague.
		It could be cholera.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, there's a good wide choice of things out there.
		All right, doctor, hold on.
		We'll get back to you in a moment.
		Bottom of the hour.
		Dr. Lynn Horowitz is my guest.
		It's all about emerging viruses, AIDS, Ebola.
		Take your choice.
		Here's more.
unidentified		Here's more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Joyce Riley, Dr. Leonard Horowitz, who I've got on the air right now, emerging viruses, AIDS and Ebola, and much more.
		They both sort of sing a similar thread, don't they?
		And I've got a fact from Karen in Sedona, Arizona.
		It says, tonight shows bringing out the same feelings in me that I felt during the interview with Joyce Rowley.
		Tears, sorrow, disgust, anger, betrayal of and by humanity.
		And I must say that I joined Karen in Sedona in that feeling.
		And there was a day when I would not have believed any of this.
		I must tell you, Doctor, there was a day when the FBI was believable, when they would come forward and say something.
		It was like gold.
		You could take it to the bank.
		That day is long gone, and our government has done so many things to us, not for us, but to us, that all of what you say is believable.
		And it's sad.
		It's really sad.
		It's crying sad.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		You know, I appreciate that.
		You know, Art.
		That is the most mature.
		Now, I am a behavioral science expert.
		I'm not a virology expert, or I don't even consider myself an AIDS expert.
		I can tell you that what you're experiencing, what your listener is experiencing, that sadness is the most mature, adult, normal human response, appropriate response for this information.
		The next step is you've got to get beyond that to political action.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Len Horowitz.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you?
unidentified		I am from KARV in Russellville, Arkansas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Russellville, Arkansas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And I agree 100% with everything the doctor's saying because I am a victim.
		I took the same shot his sister-in-law took, and I now suffer from rheumatoid arthritis.
		And it just kind of amazes you when you take an inoculation trying to prevent a disease, and then you end up with a disease much worse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you took a shot.
unidentified		Hepatitis B. Hepatitis B shot for work.
		Yes.
		And ended up with rheumatoid arthritis.
		And so, like I say, you take something because you think you're going to prevent getting something and end up with something much worse in some ways.
		You know what I'm saying?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		And you wonder if your risk weren't just to go on and take it.
unidentified		May I ask you one question?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Go ahead.
unidentified		I know that I was told to sign a disclosure, or not a disclosure, but to sign an affidavit when I took this shot.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Releasing them from all responsibility.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Does that include like what happened to me having come down with another disease?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Very likely.
unidentified		Very likely.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		See, that's their game.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Their business is at.
unidentified		That's what I thought.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		That's what their business is.
		Now, how long ago did you have that taken?
		When did the shot happen?
unidentified		The shot happened three years ago, but I have been suffering and been being treated for rheumatoid arthritis for two and a half years.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right.
unidentified		Because that was about six months, you know, six to nine months after I had the shot that I come down with it.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in my sister-in-law's case, I think the liability exposure period ended in three years.
		I think you have to file suit within three years.
		But that's part of their game.
		I mean, it's just a horrifying reality.
		Now, get this.
		This is worse.
		Let me tell you.
unidentified		Let me ask you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let me interrupt you.
		Before we leave this, because it relates, Dr. This is by facts.
		Please ask the doctor about the big push to have all emergency care providers inoculated for hepatitis B beginning about four years ago.
		I was one who fell for it.
		Ask if he's ever heard of unspecific symptoms like muscle aches, degeneration, and so forth.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		As a matter of fact, Dr. Martin and Dr. Nicholson are specifically working in labs to develop diagnostic techniques for these complex infectious diseases where you have bizarre, a whole bizarre series of problems, both immunological and neurological.
		Again, like lupus.
		It's a weird disease, neurological components, immunological components.
		And this is the same thing as Gulf Warshin.
		They're telling it's in people's heads.
		It's stress-related.
		Yes.
		You know, and then the physicians, when you go back, it's horrifying how brainwashed physicians are by the pharmaceutical companies.
		If you go back and you say, well, I'm suffering from a disease, it looks to me like it's associated with a vaccine, they say, you know, it's in your genes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
		That seems the ready explanation.
		You were about to say even worse.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, now here, I have to share this with you because it's a horrifying reality.
		Now, our children, the Clinton administration just this year has mandated hepatitis B vaccines for our infants.
		Now, this is insane.
		First of all, hepatitis B vaccine is, hepatitis B is principally a blood-borne pathogen, a sexually transmitted disease, number one.
		Healthcare workers get it, and teachers get it because they're worried about blood-to-blood exposures when they're caring for people.
		But Now, the manufacturer tells you that every seven years, you have to get your blood rechecked.
		Also, 30% of the people who get vaccinated never develop any protection.
		So, does this mean now at age seven, we have to, again, check for $175 our children's blood, they're still not sexually active.
		Seven years later, check them again, try to get a teenager at age 14 to do anything.
		Now, that's not the worst.
		Here's the problem.
		You read the insert, package insert, and hepatitis B says that some 15% develop, 15% every time you take the vaccines, 15% develop a little redness and swelling in the injection site.
		No big deal.
		About 12%, 13, 14% develop cold flu symptoms, lymph adenopathy, swelling the lymph nodes.
		No big deal.
		I suppose we could live to that.
		10, 12% develop worse symptoms.
		8 to 10, more worse symptoms.
		5, 6, more severe symptoms.
		3, 4, very severe, potentially chronic illnesses, more symptoms.
		They say less than 1%.
		And I'm telling you, I can't trust these people at all knowing what they have done.
		I have to assume, as a healthcare professional and as a public health authority, that you have to assume, when they say less than 1%, suffer from drastic, life-threatening, chronic illnesses such as chronic rheumatoid arthritis, brain damage, mental retardation, and perhaps even death.
		I have to assume 1%.
		Now, how many children do we have in the United States?
		Well, I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're about 260 million total.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of that number, I don't know how many are children.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's figure conservatively 20 to 30.
		I know there's about 50, but let's give these people the benefit of the doubt.
		Let's say there's 20 to 30 million children that are now going to get vaccinated with hepatitis B. Now, that means that between 200 and 300,000 of our children over the next seven years are going to be developing severe chronic rheumatoid arthritis, debilitating chronic diseases, or deaths.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and that's from their own figures.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		That's from their own figures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, how in the world do they justify that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It must be a risk assessment, but it's hard to imagine they could justify 200,000 or 300,000 choices.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		See, this is the problem.
		You just hit the nail right on the head.
		They have never done definitive risk-benefit-cost-benefit analyses for any of these vaccines.
		And as a public health professional, as a student in every public health school in the world, you learn before you make health care policy legislation and you mandate things in healthcare.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
		How does it get past the scientists, the FDA people, those kinds of people?
		How does it get past that before this is approved for use within the population?
		How does it get through that without that kind of study?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Lots of money on the inside.
		This is where I'm telling you.
		The military, medical, industrial complex, Rockefeller slum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Len Horowitz.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, I'm Colleen from St. Lewis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're going to have to speak up good and loud.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're a little hard to hear.
unidentified		I am only 23 years old, and I had been diagnosed as having the Epstein-Barr virus.
		Right.
		The only thing I can think in relation to that of how I could possibly have gotten it by listening to this show, I realized I had been vaccinated against having hepatitis about three years ago when I had been working for the floods here in St. Louis.
		Now, within the past month and a half of diagnosed with this virus, the main factor being my lymph node swollen and having been tested for other things and coming up negative, within a month and a half, they have found the Epstein-Barvirus is now completely just vanished, gone out of my system.
		I don't know basically how to explain it.
		Now they found that my red blood cells are larger than they're supposed to be, which is a sign of anemia.
		But I am not anemic.
		I have no idea what's going on.
		Neither does the doctor.
		He is completely confused by all this.
		Are you suffering from fatigue?
		Yes, I have been.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Sounds like part of a crying fatigue picture, which is associated with Epstein-Barr virus.
		And yes, indeed.
		Again, I would think vaccine contamination, and I would think, and I know, and I show you in the book Emerging Viruses, Aiden Ebola, that it was the Epstein-Barr virus and Burkitz lymphoma and non-Hodgkin's lymphoma that they were studying specifically in Central Africa.
		That was one of the earliest things that they were studying, and I'm clear that those things continue to break out of their laps.
unidentified		Right.
		I knew I did some research on that as far as that goes.
		Do they have any information on whether Epstein-Barr virus is present, the actual virus present before someone is diagnosed with plymouth?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's what their theory was as early as the late 50s already.
		And I think that that has been the association.
		That's written up in all the medical textbooks.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		Have a good morning.
		West of the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Dr. Lynn Horowitz.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Hi, Dr. Horowitz.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I have a couple of things to say.
unidentified		First of all, I'd like to find out how the little people of the country can do anything about this, if there's anything they can do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It should be done.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot you can do.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		I'll be happy to tell you what you can do.
unidentified		Okay.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, first of all, you can connect to the website.
		It's right through ARTS website, to our website, and then go to our resource links, and you will then be connected to all the people and all the organizations who are making a difference in this field.
		And the fields being chronic fatigue, AIDS, immunizations, immune dysfunction, everyone from people who are doing political action to people who are doing clinical research and wrong patient care.
unidentified		Okay.
		I've been a nurse for 30 years, and I've just been diagnosed with fibromyalgia in the last five years.
		And I've been diabetic since I was 15.
		I have hypothyroidism, herpes.
		And I think that's about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That'll do it.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		How is it enough?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How in the world did you contract all of this?
unidentified		I don't know.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, I highly suspect it was a vaccine contamination.
unidentified		Possibly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, Doctor, I've been talking to a lot of people.
		In fact, this acquaintance of mine who's got hepatitis C, absolutely no idea how they contracted it.
		Absolutely no idea.
		Some blood transfusions many years ago.
		Other than that, and that blood was supposedly safe.
		No idea.
		I mean, people are contracting these strange diseases these days who have no idea how they got them.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm certain that you can thank the Rockefeller Foundation and Rockefeller University and the New York City Blood Bank and their affiliated pharmaceutical industry for all of these current and coming breaks.
		I mean, the evidence is just so overwhelming.
		You have to be a fool not to open your eyes to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would think this is also overwhelming that other than political action, the only thing a person can do is to take individual action to protect themselves and their families.
unidentified		Right.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's talk about that for a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, let's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because that's what people want to know about.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		First of all, you do not have to have your children in most states vaccinated.
		You can say for spiritual or religious reasons exempt out of it.
		Get your physician to write your note.
		They have specific notes.
		Now, this goes into my situation in New York.
		We'll get into that maybe later.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Doctor, how do you get a physician who is going to say, look, are you out of your mind?
		You need these inoculations.
		I'm not going to write something that's going to get you out of this.
		How do you find a doctor?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, most of the schools even have those forms that people have to sign.
		And most areas, there are physicians that you can find that will do that for you.
		My family physician did that for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Will most physicians do it or just some?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Most will give you an argument, like you're saying.
		But I would say that these people need to read emerging viruses, AIDS, and the bone.
		And that's one of the most urgent reasons why people should read my book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Because they've got to, the physicians should read the book, the self-scientists should read the book, and the informed consumers should read this book just so that they know who they're dealing with and how they have been disinformed and what the current and coming risks are with regards to these vaccines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, we are running out of time for this session.
		We'll have you back on the air again.
		The number to order your book is 1-800-336-9266, correct?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Leonard Horowitz.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Good morning, Alex.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Dr. Horowitz.
		Good morning.
		I started to say I've enjoyed this show, but that's kind of the wrong phrase.
		I mean, it's been very enlightening, but some of the most horrifying, I guess, news that I've heard as long as I can remember.
		I was diagnosed in 1986 with Epstein-Barr virus.
		I suffered for probably about six years with so many kinds of symptoms.
		I mean, it is too long to go into.
		I was retested in 1994.
		Still showed symptoms of chronic mononucleosis, Epstein-Var.
		And back in 86 when I was first diagnosed, I guess they didn't really know as much as they do now, back before it was called chronic fatigue.
		To my knowledge, I mean, when I asked the doctor how I contracted this, he was like, you know, well, this germ is, there's viruses present in water.
		It's everywhere.
		You know, your immune system must have just been at a low and it hit you.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's garbage.
unidentified		Yeah, well, I didn't take any kind of hepatitis vaccinations.
		I really have no idea how I can track this.
		All I can say is, you know, in the last 10 years, I mean, it is wrecked havoc.
		I've lost two marriages basically because of the debilitating effects of the virus.
		I was unable to work for probably a seven or eight year period.
		Did you take oral polio vaccine when you were young?
		Yes, I did, as a matter of fact.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		So did I, actually.
		Well, most of us did.
		Most of us are walking around with monkey virus genes in our bodies right now because of it.
		Read the Money Magazine article this month, December 96th issue of Money Magazine.
		You must get that.
unidentified		Okay.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		See, Bernice Eddie, she was the Bureau of Biologics director in charge of testing vaccines, the Salk and Sabin vaccines.
		And she inoculated a dozen monkeys with the SALC vaccine.
		They all killed over, paralyzed, or dead.
		Then what happened was she took this information.
		She took pictures in the photographs.
		She took those to the director of the NIH.
		He confiscated the photographs, demoted, and defunded her.
		Ten years later, 1972, she went to Congress, and in front of Congress, she says, if you continue to allow these vaccines to go out, in the next 20 years, you will have epidemics unlike the world has ever seen.
		Epidemics of cancer, of all sorts of epidemics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's exactly what we have.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is epidemic, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're not about to cure cancer, are they?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		The other day when the American Cancer Society announced that they have turned the tide, now winning the war on cancer, that was such garbage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I've heard that since I've been alive, old enough to watch TV and watch the fundraisers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They've always said that.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Well, read Emerging Viruses.
		Read my book, Emerging Viruses, AIDS in Ebola.
		You'll see that the American Cancer Society, again, this is kind of like a follow-up arm of the Sloan Foundation, the Sloan Foundation, which paid for disinformation and population control.
		They brought up chemotherapy.
		You know what their first chemotherapy was?
		Doctor?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was the nerve gas that they used in World War I. Well, that came sometime after they used to bleed people.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doctor, we're at the end of the session here, but we will have you back again.
		And I know that you're around the cutter.
		You're going to be where signing books?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		On Friday, November, let's see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very quickly.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Monday, Deep River Bookstore in Santa Monica, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right, Doctor, it has been a distinct pleasure.
		Thank you.
		Pleasure, I don't know if that's the right word.
		It's been very informative, doctor.
unidentified		Well, thanks a lot.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate your airing all this information.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		It's so urgent that we let people know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, my friend, Dr. Lynn Horowitz.
		We will be back.
		This is CBC.
		I'm Arcella.
		you want to hear something a little bit different.
unidentified		Call Art Bell.
		Toll-free.
		West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure is.
		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		For those of you who would like a copy of the program with Dr. Leonard Purwitz, who wrote Emerging Viruses AIDS in a Moment.
		It is a three-hour program, and I'm already getting a zillion questions about it.
		The way to order 24 hours a day, including now, is to call 1-800-917-4278.
		That's 1-800-917-4278.
		And that's the way to get a copy of the program.
		In a moment, we're going to completely change gears here.
		Yesterday morning, I got a call from a fellow named Rodney somewhere in Arkansas.
		Rodney has, or claims to have, trapped a spirit.
		He's got it trapped, just like in Ghostbusters, or kind of like in Ghostbusters, I guess.
		We'll ask about that.
		And he has trapped it, I think I recall him telling me, with modified bug zappers.
		Have you ever seen a bug zapper?
		Remember sometime you'd have those electrical bug zappers?
		And a bug would come by and it's gone, right?
		Somehow he's modified those, has caught a spirit and trapped it in a room.
		And I talked to him about an hour ago, as of an hour ago, he still had it trapped.
		So we're going to talk to him, and I'll read the facts he sent that got us into this here in a moment.
		In a moment, it's off to Arkansas.
		But first, I want to remind everybody out there, yesterday, Whitley Streeber called me just before the program and said, Art, you're not going to believe what I have.
		I'm going to send it to you.
		It's copyrighted, but you can put it up, share it with everybody.
		And he doesn't want you to transfer it anywhere else, but you're welcome to download it, look at it, and see for yourself.
		Whitley Streeber, who wrote Communion, has received, and I'm going to let him tell you about the source of the photograph when he is ready, has received a photograph of an alleged alien that he claims is exactly what he saw.
		So real that that described in Communion was not quite the full story.
		He intentionally did not describe exactly what he saw, so he would know, and you would know through him what the real thing was when somebody finally got a photograph.
unidentified		He says, this is it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you can download it.
		It's up there now.
		The MJ12 badge I used with a photograph, so you'll know me when you see me on Dark Skies if you get an opportunity to see that December 12th.
		That's up there.
		A link to the Strange Universe television program.
		Now, I'm going to be on Strange Universe Tuesday to find out if there is a television station near you, and about 90% of the country is covered.
		You can go to the link to Strange Universe, their website, and it'll give a listing of all their affiliates.
		That's all on my webpage, as well as a link to Dr. Leonard Horowitz.
		All of it at www.artbell.com.
		www.artbell.com right now.
		I got this yesterday from art.
		I have finally done it.
		After months of communicating with spirits from another realm, I've channeled a spirit, or some say a ghost, into a room which I have prepared for it.
		The spirit calls itself Everett.
		And Everett communicates both in our English language and telepathically.
		The room that I have Everett trapped in is sealed off by a series of electromagnetic devices which he cannot stand to be within three inches of.
		Or I suppose he'd be, I'm adding this, zapped like a bug.
		I don't know.
		I've worked on this since around July of 96, and tonight at 7.06 Central Time, I captured it.
		The spirit is a non-violent one and does seem to be somewhat scared.
		I have asked him a few questions that you may find of interest.
		Everett says we're being prepared for the great visit of our cousins from beyond.
		So I could not resist, and I asked Rodney, that's his name, to please send me a phone number.
		He did.
		I've got Rodney on the line.
		From where in Arkansas, Rodney?
unidentified		I'm calling from Fort Smith, Arkansas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fort Smith, Arkansas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, is this essentially correct what you wrote?
unidentified		Yes, it is.
unidentified		I'm not Making a bit of it up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not even a little bit.
unidentified		Not even a little bit.
unidentified		Rodney, how did you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't even know where to begin here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First of all, how did you decide to even begin trying to raise a spirit?
unidentified		Okay, let me start by correcting what I told you last night later in the program.
unidentified		When I said bug zapper, I'm not talking about one of them blue things that sit out in your yard and zap bugs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're not.
unidentified		No, and a lot of people aren't familiar with them.
		What it is, it's a little device you use in your home.
		You plug it in, and it gets rid of pests such as insects and rodents, small mice and things like that by an ultrasonic high-frequency sound wave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
		Oh, all right.
		I was featuring in my mind, and I couldn't figure it out, how a bug zapper would keep anything.
unidentified		Right, I just chose the wrong words.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I see, I see, in other words, it produces a sound that does what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can it kill mice?
unidentified		Right, it would.
		No, it don't kill them.
		It just keeps them away.
		It's an unpleasant sound, and we can't hear it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Exactly right.
		And so you found, how did you discover that this was something that would control or keep in a certain space a spirit?
unidentified		Last December, me and a buddy of mine was sitting around watching Razorbacks play basketball.
		And my wife and his wife was off in another room and doing what I call channeling.
		They go into a trance, and I thought they was putting me on a little bit, talking other things.
		and we'd sit around and make fun of them.
		But on this particular night during a break in the game...
		Well, I'd make fun of what they was doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		I figured it was some strange form of entertainment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I, frankly, have never thought a lot about channelers myself, and I've got a sister who channels.
unidentified		On this particular night, during a break of the game, I'd picked up that little pest controller and pointed it right at them.
unidentified		And what had happened, they both jumped up and screamed at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		And after they screamed, they sat back down and relaxed.
unidentified		But, I mean, I found it odd that they screamed at the same time and jumped up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		They said that the spirit that they was channeling also done the same thing and left.
		And it left.
		When it left, it looked like it was being pushed out of the room by a wave, like a wave of water, is how they described it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Aha, so it was insulted, angry, and probably its ears hurt.
unidentified		It probably did, if it does have ears.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, or the equivalent in the spirit world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, it did not like that sound.
unidentified		It must not have.
unidentified		What we've done, I got to thinking about this much later because it took me until July to finally come up with the idea and put it in place, is we bought about five more of these units.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bought five more of them?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have to modify them, by the way, for your use, or do you leave them stock?
unidentified		Well, at first we left them just like they come from the manufacturer.
		And what we done was we set it up in a room.
		We made a platform in the room.
		And that's where my wife would get up there and do her channeling.
		But we had a device pointed at each wall, one at the ceiling, and one from underneath the platform pointing at the floor.
		Trying to block off any exit.
		Well, that didn't work.
		She said that he exited through an upper corner of the room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you didn't have it all covered.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		We flipped the switch, and she said he exited in the same manner, but up in the upper left-hand corner of the room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so this is like a, before we get to how you sealed it off, this is like something that you leave off, you lure the spirit in.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It gets in there, and you flip the switch and turn it on, and that's it.
unidentified		That's absolutely right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man.
		All right, so you didn't have the whole thing covered.
		How did you end up finally covering it all?
unidentified		Well, my friend, he's an electrical engineer, and he suggested taking the unit out of its housing and putting it in a housing that would broadcast the sound waves in a larger pattern.
		So we could cover the whole thing.
		Either that or buying more units.
		So what we come up with was a casing to a drop light, like what you would use to work on your automobile.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Okay, and we took the device out of its manufacturer's housing, put it in this, and just takes one of them to cover the one wall of the room.
		The room's 12 by 14.
		The platform we have built is 5 foot by 4 foot, and that's where everything's trapped right there, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's a relatively small area where you trap it?
unidentified		Right.
		Wow.
		There's a small sofa on the top.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Didn't you worry a little bit that there would be, I don't want to say hell to pay, but hell to pay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, if you trap this thing, it would get very angry and very upset and do who knows what?
unidentified		I didn't give it much thought.
unidentified		I don't actually do the channeling myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't have any relations in the Kansas City area, do you?
unidentified		Not at all.
unidentified		Not that I'm aware of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know a phone named Mike Markham?
unidentified		No, I don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't know Mike Markham?
		All right.
		Just checking.
		So anyway, you got all this done.
		And then how did you summon, or how did your wife, I guess, who you had been making fun of, summon this spirit?
unidentified		Well, she got up on the platform that I've talked about, sit on the sofa, and she goes into like a trance, I would say, for about five minutes.
		And then she'll start talking and mumbling.
		And that's what I used to laugh at because I didn't think there was anything there that she was really talking to.
		But now I'm convinced that there are.
		I haven't actually seen it with my own eyes.
		I can tell we have a thermometer outside the area on the inside of the area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And it's like eight degrees colder in the center there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		It sure is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's not directly below an air conditioning duct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's some reason why we're not.
unidentified		No.
unidentified		Matter of fact, I've got the heat duct turned off right now and covered up, just in case that could be a route of escape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		that's right.
		That's right.
		I hadn't even thought about that.
		It might get away that way through the ducting.
		So it's colder there, and you can document that.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		I've got a thermometer right now, one reading 72 and one reading about 65 right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Wow.
		And it's been that way since you trapped this entity, and that's been over now, 24 hours.
unidentified		It's been a little over 30 hours now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		30 hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Aren't you concerned, having an entity like this trapped, that something terrible might happen?
unidentified		Well, it's hard to sleep.
		It's hard to sleep in the same house with it.
		What I'm working on now is a way to transport it, and I have to go from AC to DC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean like a portable unit?
unidentified		Right.
		And by the way, I've never seen Ghostbusters.
		I've rented in Penn State at night and didn't think about it until after I'd rented it that I should have got Ghostbusters.
		But I've never seen that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, they kept entities in a magnetically controlled field.
		And you're keeping the entity controlled with ultrasonic, I think it's ultrasonic, right?
		Right, right.
		And it just doesn't like them, or do you think it has more of an ability than even that?
		In other words, even though it wouldn't like these sounds, you would think to get free, it would just burst through if it had to.
		So there must be some greater factor controlling it.
unidentified		Well, I'll tell you what, in the email that I sent you, I told you three things that it has communicated to my wife.
		But it's done two more things since that.
		One of the things is that it said that it's not trapped, that it can leave on its own free will, that we could turn off the units.
		And I don't want to believe that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, has one ever stuck around like that before?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Before you put in your units?
unidentified		No, not after she was done communicating with me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it could be lying to you.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		She's not even in the house now, and it's still reading the same.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, she's not?
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		She's in Tulsa at some voodoo or something convention.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A voodoo convention.
unidentified		Pocus pocus or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did the two of you get along?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You get along okay?
unidentified		Oh, great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sounds like you've tortured her a bit about all of this.
unidentified		Oh, it's just good humor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you apologized, basically, for some of that torture based on the fact that you've now got an entity?
unidentified		She knows that I believe her, and I don't ever do anything.
unidentified		I don't ever tease her to where she would be upset.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know the spirit's name is Everett?
unidentified		Now, that was in the original communication, I'd say about 8 o'clock yesterday evening.
		And that's where she went into a trance.
		And she actually done the talking to it and repeated what was being said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		And I took the notes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you heard anything?
		You said Everett communicates in English as well as telepathically.
		Does that mean in English through your wife or in English aloud so it can be heard?
unidentified		Through her, and also she can know exactly what it's thinking, and she says it knows exactly what she's thinking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any other physical documentation of the presence of Everett other than the lower temperature, which is very interesting?
unidentified		Well, I'll tell you what, this morning, about 6.30, I put my cat in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You did?
unidentified		I put my cat in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You put your cat in there?
unidentified		And it hunched all up and hissed for about five minutes straight.
		It wouldn't move.
		I finally went out and got my fishing net out of the garage, and it's got a handle on it, and I stuck it in there and pulled it out.
		And I haven't seen the cat since.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You had to capture your cat with a net?
		Right, I'm not capturing it.
		How long did you leave your cat in there?
unidentified		About five minutes.
unidentified		And it did not move.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Didn't, it just, what, sat there sort of all hunkered down?
unidentified		No, no, no.
unidentified		It was on all four feet with its back hunked way up in the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I imagine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like that, huh?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		But I haven't seen her since.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, you haven't seen her since.
		So I don't blame her.
		I'd have run away, too.
		So she's probably run away.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Tortured by the spirits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are you going to do with Everett?
unidentified		Well, I don't want to leave it in the house.
		I've got kids, and I don't like fooling around with that sort of thing in the first place as far as being in the same house.
		I'd like to find a way to transport it and to get some pictures of things like a cat going in there, get some pictures of the thermometers or video.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what are you going to do?
		Yeah, pictures is good.
		I would like to have photographs.
		What are you going to do with Everett?
		Assuming that you can get Everett to transport, where are you going to take them?
unidentified		No idea, really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hadn't thought that one through.
unidentified		Oh, I haven't.
unidentified		And all we're relying on now is the power company is not going to have a bump.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God, I hadn't thought of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you don't have portable power?
unidentified		No, I don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's very serious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just an instant of loss of power, and Everett's gone.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you don't believe Everett with regard to, hey, no problem, turn it off, I'm going to stay?
		Not a bit.
		Well, then, if Everett's lying about that, then Everett could be lying about other information given to you.
unidentified		That's right, that's right.
unidentified		But I do find it odd that we did have that plane crash tonight, the C-130.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And that was one of the things that he did say originally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He predicted that?
unidentified		Right.
		It says our planes will be confused and air controllers will be stunned.
		Catastrophe will fall upon the world's aviation due to unheard signals from our cousins that are presently trying to contact us.
		And that one's got me a little confused, but I know it has to do with our airplanes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, Rodney, I too watched ID4 earlier in the day.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And are you sure that that doesn't come from your having watched that movie?
unidentified		No, I watched that tonight.
unidentified		This is in the email I sent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
		All right.
		Yeah, it is, as a matter of fact.
		That's right.
		That's right.
		Here it is.
		Our planes will be confused, and air controllers will be stunned.
		Catastrophe will fall upon the world's aviation due to the unheard signals from our cousins that are presently trying to contact us.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's right here.
		It's right here.
		And you sent that to me before the facts.
unidentified		I sent that yesterday at 8.36 p.m.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's when you sent it, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rodney, do you want to give your last name or are you not?
unidentified		I'd rather not.
unidentified		I'm sure there'll be a lot of skepticism and ridicule.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're probably right, Rodney.
		And what I'm going to do is open the lines during the next half hour, and we'll see if we get skepticism, ridicule, interest, advice, questions.
		Can you ask questions?
		I guess without your wife, you can't, can you?
unidentified		Right.
		No, there's no way.
		I'm not going to step in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't blame you a bit.
		Stay right there, Rodney.
		This is CBZ.
unidentified		This is CBZ.
		This is the CBT Radio Network.
		Rodney, are you still there?
		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		All right, we've got a bunch of people who want to talk to you.
		I thought I could unnerve you a little bit.
		Apparently not.
		Man of Steel.
		I would not have trapped Everett in the first place.
		I mean, it took guts to do that.
		Right.
unidentified		Didn't you worry before you did it?
		I don't guess I worried at all.
		I'm still not fearful of it unless, like tonight, I wouldn't be able to sleep at all with my wife not home and being home alone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Home alone with Everett.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have children?
unidentified		Yes, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do they have to say about this?
		Aren't they worried?
		Daddy's got a ghost?
unidentified		They don't really know what's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're sparing them.
		You're really not telling them.
		I don't blame you.
		And you've really got a constant...
unidentified		Right, seven to eight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seven to eight degrees colder constantly?
unidentified		Yes, either seven or eight.
		It hasn't been off seven or eight degrees difference since we first put it in.
		It hasn't been six and it hasn't been nine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Rodney in Arkansas.
		Hello.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		This is Fritz, the other Fritz.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Petaluma.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Petaluma, Fritz.
unidentified		All right.
		Great program, by the way, tonight, Art.
		I really appreciate the way you do innovative things like this.
		Get Rodney on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, why not?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		And nobody else is doing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's for sure.
unidentified		Rodney.
		Yes, sir.
		Have you checked to see if your cat was not responding to the ultrasonic waves as opposed to the entity?
		No, I haven't.
		Check that out.
		Okay.
		I might have to go get another cat.
		Set up another room, too.
		Right.
		And with the waves coming at this entity from all sides, wouldn't they be penetrating right through to the center of where the entity was stationed?
		No, they're facing away.
		Facing away?
		Right.
		It's like a drop light cover, like a dome shape.
		And it's facing the walls.
		He really has no place to go unless he does go through that.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, thank you very much for the call.
		So, it, I guess we ought to really call it.
		Do you know what it was before?
unidentified		We haven't asked that at all.
		She can see it.
		She said it's not clothes, no hair.
		It don't have what we would call genitals.
		Really?
		But it's just not glowing.
		I mean, not like what I would picture a ghost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder, has anybody suggested any experiments to you that you might do while you have this entity trapped?
unidentified		Not at all.
unidentified		We know nobody that has any type of information on this, period.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe we'll find somebody out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Rodney in Arkansas.
unidentified		Hey, it's a pleasure, Art.
unidentified		This is Tony from Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, how's it going?
		Hi, Rodney.
		Hi, Tony.
		Hey, I'm a little skeptical, but, you know, hey, I've seen a lot of ghosts.
		So, you know, I just want to know what shape is the consortium of the instrumentation you got set up?
		And is it covered like that?
		Does it cover the floor?
		And you say it's dome-shaped?
		Right.
		The housing is.
		The housing for each one.
		There's six of them in the room.
		One facing the ceiling, one's facing the floor, and one on each wall.
		Okay, does the ghost have an electrical field of any kind that's detected, or are you not into that yet?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or magnetics.
		Magnetics, also.
		Yeah.
unidentified		I've got no way of checking that.
		Okay.
		Hey, keep up, you know, let's get something on video.
		Get some live correspondence out to your house and look into this.
		Get MUFON out there.
		Okay.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Yes.
		Had you thought of that, Rodney?
		That is calling some sort of professional Ghostbuster.
		I mean, what you've got is fairly remarkable and may not last.
unidentified		Right.
		I have no idea where to look.
		Maybe the Internet or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to say, shouldn't you get somebody out there?
		Yeah, maybe the Internet or maybe somebody will have a suggestion.
		What are you going to do with regard to videotape?
unidentified		Well, there's not really much to videotape other than the temperature change, or if I throw some animal in there, I guess.
unidentified		Unless it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure you should keep throwing animals in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Besides, you don't have any more to throw in there, right?
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Describe exactly.
		When you threw your cat in, throw is probably a poor word phrase.
		Placed your cat in there.
unidentified		But my hands didn't ever enter the.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, you sort of got your cat up to the barrier point.
unidentified		What did you throw?
unidentified		I really threw it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And just when your cat landed, what did he do?
unidentified		All he done was let out a slight, not quite like what I heard you play there, but something similar to that, not quite as long or as loud, and then hissed.
		I mean, it was a constant hiss, by the way, for about five minutes, and he stayed hunkered down.
		And I thought, well, he's going to die if I don't get him out.
		I don't know if it was actually the entity or, like the caller said, the noise or whatever that is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So did you try calling him out or, you know, you're talking about him?
unidentified		Yeah, I tried calling him out, and it worried me.
unidentified		And I run to the garage and got my fishing net.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you fished him out.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when he got out, he thought you have an open door or something?
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so he just kept on going.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can't say I blame him.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rodney.
		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, hello there.
unidentified		This is really neat being on your show, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you.
unidentified		I've been listening to you for a while.
		And well, there's a couple things I wanted to ask you.
		I guess I have to hold them for another time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please, yes, we have a guest here.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I do want to say that I appreciate those Malachi Martin interviews, though.
		That was really good.
		He might be able to help in this matter.
		But I wonder, okay, Mr. Rodney.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's a good question.
		I wonder what he would say about this.
		He would probably say, Rodney, you have no idea what you're into here.
		And, you know, you're going to wake up in the middle of the night with a bedspring through your chest.
unidentified		Well, I could ask if I could sleep at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ask your question.
unidentified		Rodney, my name is Dan, incidentally, and I'm in St. Louis, Missouri.
		I wanted to ask you, first of all, I want to make sure that I understand where you're coming from.
		And just under penalty of perjury, so to speak, are you or are you not pulling our leg?
		No, sir.
		Okay, then I'll take your word for it.
		And I have something to say that I'm no expert on this or anything, but I'm just going by my conscience.
		And if this thing, was it harassing anybody when you trapped it?
		Was it like, you know, like in Ghostbusters, they trapped a demon or something that was...
		Okay, so if it wasn't harassing anybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, he lured it in.
		More appropriately, his wife did.
		More accurately.
unidentified		It seems to me, like just going by my conscience, you know, is that if you lured it in and if it wasn't bothering anybody and you lured it in, and if you're holding it against its will, then you're not authorized to do that.
		There can be repercussions.
		And I'll give thought to that, but then what's the consequences when I let it go?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got a point there.
unidentified		Well, you see, it's like it said that it itself claimed that it can leave any time.
		Right.
		But that may have been just something it said in desperation to get you to let it go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, I'd say something like that, wouldn't you, if you were trapped?
		Go ahead, turn it off.
		I'll stay.
unidentified		If he's trapped against its will, then it's sort of like putting somebody in prison and you're not authorized to do it.
		And there's what you might call cosmic laws.
		Sure, I've thought of that, and I wouldn't want that to happen to me, I mean, in the future life.
		And I've thought seriously about turning it off, but surely not before the show here.
		And one more thing I wanted to ask you.
		I might have missed something you said, but can you see it or not?
		No, I cannot.
		Your wife can see it, though?
		Not unless she gets up onto the platform and instantly, this is how I really believe that it's there, because usually it'll take her some time to start communicating, but instantly she'll get up on this platform, sit on the sofa, and go into a trance and start communicating.
		I mean, just that fast.
		And she can see it and hear it and everything?
		Right.
		She's in my bed.
		Now, she may be pulling my leg, but I mean, we have a temperature difference here, and that's one of the main things I'm going on, and knowing my wife and trusting her.
		Well, have you or anybody other than your wife sensed it in any other way personally?
		There's a cold presence in the house.
		I mean, not chilly cold, just eerie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then there's this cat.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's all very interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would like you to get a magnetometer in there.
unidentified		Magnetometer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A magnetometer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It'll tell you if there's a magnetic field emanating from that area.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there may well be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Call her thanks.
unidentified		Is there any chance of getting your wife on the air?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His wife has taken off for where?
unidentified		Tulsa.
unidentified		Tulsa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, why would she go to Tulsa and leave you alone with this thing?
unidentified		Well, she had this planned for a couple of months now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would there be a future time when we might be able to get Mrs. Rodney on?
unidentified		I'm sure she would love to do that.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, there you go, caller.
unidentified		Well, thank you, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Take care.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rodney.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
		Bob Bocatello.
		Hi, Bob.
		What's up?
		Well, you know, I was laying there sleeping.
		I just heard part of this, and I said, hey, that's something interesting.
		But just some cautions there, Rodney, and a question.
		You know, when Art has interviewed Malachi Martin, especially in this last time, I think it was five times Malachi said that we have to remember that Lucifer can appear as an angel of light.
		And Courtney made a comment about subspace, which he makes reference to what's probably commonly known as a spirit world.
		Well, this spirit world hasn't really been emphasized too much, but it is inhabited by both good and evil spirits.
		And perhaps Art could get the discussion from Brother Malachi in this.
		But in any case, you're playing with Nitro there, and I can't help but feel that a lot of people who might be into spirit transfer or remote viewing or anything else, when they start inviting spiritual experiences, if they're not really aware of what they might be getting into, it would turn into something like Art's Ouija board experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, it could certainly turn into something negative.
		Are you at all connected?
		I mean, during this whole period, Rodney, surely, especially in the beginning, it must have had you totally freaked out.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you knew you had it, didn't you worry that you might have summoned up something, as this caller said?
unidentified		Not like I have since I've been talking to your callers.
		But that does raise a little concern to me now.
		I mean, in all the excitement, I haven't given much thought to the worry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, I wonder if you managed to get this spirit Everett out and into a portable holder, so then where do you take Everett?
unidentified		Well, I'm leaning toward not doing that now after talking to that last caller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
		Yep, yep, yep, yep.
		All right.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Rodney in Arkansas.
unidentified		Oh, get to a better phone.
		This is a great show tonight, Art.
		This is Dan in the U District.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Dan.
unidentified		How you doing?
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		Man, this is fascinating.
		Rodney, I commend you for your adventurous Spirit.
		And if I was doing this, I would try to get my wife to, you know, this could be a fabulous learning experience, posing questions to the entity about what things are like in the spirit realm.
		If it's being honest with you, it could be a great chance to learn some things and, you know, ask questions about the hereafter.
		And also, there are inroads you could make, actions you could take to maybe get this story on one of the TV shows.
		And there is a way to contact that Ghostbuster that sightings used.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you want publicity beyond this program, Rodney?
unidentified		I'm not sure about that right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, obviously, if we gave your last name, I guarantee.
unidentified		I know that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guarantee.
		You would be inundated with hard copy, Strange Universe.
		They'd be past your door, as would many others.
unidentified		Let's pass on that for right now, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		That's your answer.
		He doesn't want more.
unidentified		Well, I hope Art can interview your wife before too long.
unidentified		It would be very interesting to hear what she has to say, too, when she comes back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good question.
		You know your wife.
		I don't.
		If we had her now on the phone from Tulsa, what would she say?
unidentified		She would tell you it's real.
		I mean, she's absolutely convinced.
		There's not even a slight doubt in her mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And she's not at all worried about trucking off to Tulsa and leaving you holding the ghost.
unidentified		Not a bit.
		She told me just not to get in there unless I wanted to go into whatever she does.
		But I'm not sure that a person not wanting to could actually do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you tell us what model?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people will want to know what model ultrasonic thingamahicker you're using.
unidentified		It was a 3200.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Made by?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know?
unidentified		I think it's called Ridpest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Redpest?
unidentified		RID.
unidentified		R-I-D.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, R-I-D.
		RIDPEST.
		RIDPEST.
		And a model what?
unidentified		3200.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Modified, though.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First time caller line.
		You're on the air with Rodney.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Oh, is this the R Bell shop?
unidentified		Oh, I...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got a very bad phone line.
unidentified		Yeah, I do.
		I really do.
		Does that make anything better?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Can you hear me very well at all?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can hear you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead and ask your question.
unidentified		Okay, well, I had a question for you, and I had a statement for Rodney.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, got to make it quick, so go ahead.
unidentified		Okay, what I wanted to say was to Rodney, if this entity has shared good information with him and his wife, and everything has been positive until this point, Rodney, you should trust this.
unidentified		Make good with yourself and let him go if it's all been good information up to that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, you think Everett should be freed?
unidentified		Well, I do for if Everett has never done nothing but send good information for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, that's a, thank you.
		That's a horrible phone line, sir.
		I'm sorry.
		That's an open question, though, because I don't, and I can't believe that Everett would stay where he is without the RIDPest Model 3200 keeping him right there.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you believe that, too, don't you?
unidentified		I also do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then that means that Everett fibbed because he said he would stay even if you turned it off.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		And even a good person would do that, trapped.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is kind of a spiritual equivalent to kidnapping.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		However, I think you're safe as far as any law would go.
		Certainly you really couldn't be convicted of doing something for which there is no law.
		I mean, there's a law covering kidnapping people, but not spirits.
		So I think you're safe, except perhaps cosmically.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rodney.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, guys.
		This is Chuck from West Virginia.
		Hi, Chuck.
		I just wanted to talk to you about the Everett thing.
		Yeah.
		Funny thing happened to me.
		I was sitting here thinking, it sounds to me like it might not really be a ghost.
		It might just be some old guy who's been sitting out trying to astrally project, and he was just running around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I never thought of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, somebody who went through sleep paralysis, left his body.
unidentified		It could be Ed Dames.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And got trapped in Rodney's little trap.
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so there's somewhere, there's a body sitting there waiting for it to be snapped back and nothing snapping back.
unidentified		I can imagine that.
unidentified		Poor soul.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they'd be lucky if they don't bury the guy.
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is a thought, Rodney.
		Thank you, sir.
		It is a thought, Rodney.
		We don't know the nature of the spirit, do we?
unidentified		We sure don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You really are dealing with some unknown stuff here.
unidentified		Right.
		Coming on your show, I've learned a lot.
		And I may consider when my wife comes back in the morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, she'll be back in the morning.
unidentified		Right.
		Flipping the switch.
		But I wouldn't dare do it without her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what I would do?
		I would do a test.
		I would have her contact Everett and again ask, you're really going to say if we turn this thing off and then turn it off?
		And if Everett goes sliding, slipping, and sliding back to wherever, then you will know that you were definitely lied to, and that would put into question all the information, other information.
		Or, if Everett stays, then I think that would underscore the other information.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wouldn't it?
unidentified		It sure would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, look, there are many, many more people who want to talk to you.
		Do you want to hold on for a bit?
unidentified		Sure will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Rodney.
		This is Rodney, and I guess, Everett, actually.
		And we're going to get a chance to talk to his wife and confirm all of this.
		Rodney has a spirit trap in Arkansas.
		What do you think?
		Free Rodney or keep him bottled up?
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Stay tuned for more of the best of Art Bell.
		You're listening to an encore performance of Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell.
		This program is aired live Monday through Friday from 11 p.m. to 4 a.m. in the Pacific time zone and 2 a.m. to 7 a.m. in the Eastern.
		Please contact your local radio listings to confirm the exact times Art Bell airs live in your area.
		And now, Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you what you can do, Rodney.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got one idea.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a camera?
unidentified		Yeah, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why don't you, at the very least, take a photograph of the whole lash-up that you've got there right now while it's running, while Everett is still trapped, and send me that photograph.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you do that?
unidentified		I sure can.
unidentified		Do we have people that can detect it from a photograph?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You never know about this audience, Rodney.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But at the very least, we would get an opportunity to see your lash-up.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your laboratory.
unidentified		Right, I'll do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The RIDPest modified 3200s, right?
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		And you'll give me the address after the show?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll give you the address right now if you've got a piece of paper.
unidentified		I'm ready to rest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is priceless.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't miss it.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's Art Bell.
		That's my name.
		P-O-Box 4755.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perump.
		I know it's a strange name.
		That's P-A-H-R-U-M-B, Nevada.
unidentified		N-V.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		N-V.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Zip code 89041-4755.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I will then take that photograph and scan it and put it on the web and in our newsletter and stuff like that so people can see it.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seeing as sort of believing.
		Now, I've got a fax here from Fairbanks, Alaska, and I don't want you to take it wrong.
		It's from TJ and Nicole up there, all right?
		They say, please let Rodney know that we believe his wife may have gone to Tulsa to a voodoo conference, in quotes, as a cover-up to visit a lover.
		She has cleverly left poor Rodney staring into empty space, surrounded by jerry-rigged bug zappers, and even his cat has now left him.
unidentified		Well, if she is, I hope she's listening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First-time caller line, you are on the air with Rodney in Arkansas.
unidentified		This is Penny from Burbank.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Penny.
unidentified		And I want to know if this would be true that he could capture or stop any entity with this RIDPAS 3200.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not just one RIDPESS 3200.
unidentified		But I meant focusing them, would they all be affected by this same ultrasonic?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, you've got to bear in mind that even Everett claims, ha-ha, that he's not trapped by this thing.
unidentified		Well, I don't believe him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't either.
unidentified		But I do think that this would be wonderful news for Father Malachi because he might be able to use it when he's trying to get rid of an individual's demons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's a very good point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know whether...
unidentified		Yes, I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The exorcist?
		Okay, there you go.
		So you're right, ma'am.
		It would be a wonderful tool if we can prove that it is working.
unidentified		Is this the same entity that jumped when he first shot it at his wife?
		I'm not sure on that.
		No, I'm not sure.
		Oh, well, that would tell us whether more than one would be affected by it.
		Yeah, because that was back in December of 95.
		So it could be a different one.
		It sure could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that Everett should be set free or that he should hold Everett until his wife gets back?
unidentified		No, he should set Everett free because his wife can bring in any of them, any number of times, anytime she wishes.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, for heaven's sakes, do not do that until you take a photograph for me.
unidentified		Well, I won't, and there's no chance I'll do it without her here.
		Yeah, I agree with that.
		Because he can protect you if he wants to attack you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, ma'am.
unidentified		Bye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		So far, it seems to be the vote is going towards setting Everett free.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Rodney in Arkansas.
unidentified		Good evening, Er.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
unidentified		Should I say good morning?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Morning, I guess.
unidentified		I'm Randy from Fort Smith.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're in Fort Smith?
unidentified		Right.
		And first of all, it seems like the quakening is quakening.
		But I don't know if you realize it or not, but Fort Smith is a gathering place for spirits because of the gallows down here.
		Rodney probably knows about that.
		Yeah, I've heard about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gallows?
unidentified		Yeah, Judge Parker's gallows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Judge Parker's gallows?
		The hanging judge.
		One of you want to fill me in?
unidentified		Well, there's about no building downtown that's not haunted by some kind of spirit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Right.
		And they got all upset when we had this storm come through.
		And they're just moving all over the place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I certainly remember when the storm came through, it tore that place apart.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Anyway, I'm not a religious fanatic by any means, but I have witnessed, my wife has been, and I have witnessed several clergy exercise demons from people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Fort Smith.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Some Pentecostal preachers, Evangel Temper, for example, or some of the people over at Spirit 106 Radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Spirit 106 Radio.
unidentified		Right.
		Gospel station.
		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I should laugh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And they can go through a house and, you know, several of the elders and pray in each room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe Rodney should bring one of these people in since you've got them locally.
unidentified		Right.
		And also, don't set it free without them.
		Right.
		And another thing you don't want to do is...
		Right.
		Especially with children.
		It may burn the house.
		And the other thing, then take your wife to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And have her exercise too, huh?
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Anyway, that's the best advice I can do, but I have actually seen petite women talking men's voices in some of these Pentecostal churches.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No offense, but living right there in Fort Smith, with all you've told me about the hanging judge and all the rest of it, you believe Rodney?
unidentified		Oh, I believe Rodney.
		I'm at work right now, and I work about 200 yards from the graveyard.
		They buried most of them the people that were hanging.
		And it's just cold as everything in there, and the heater's on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, thank you very much for the call.
		There's somebody right in your own hometown, Rodney.
		Certainly believes you.
		Easy to the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Rodney.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Tim in Minneapolis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Tim.
unidentified		Hi.
		This is one of the rare times when I have to disagree with art.
		I grew up in a household where my dad did exorcisms for, I don't know, 25, 30 years or so.
		Sure.
		And I believe this spirit can probably leave when it wants, and it's playing games with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're not disagreeing with me.
		You're disagreeing with Rodney.
		Well, yes, you are, because I agreed with Rodney.
unidentified		I mean, I don't know if this is for real or not, but if it is, this is what I'm saying, is that I think it can probably leave when it wants.
unidentified		And the reason I say that is when he threw the cat in there, he could have entered the cat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when he pulled the cat out, yeah, you could suggest that that happened, but how would you account for the fact there remains, what, a seven-degree temperature difference?
unidentified		That's my point.
		I believe he's still there and he's playing games with them.
		I think he could have done that, but I think he wants...
		They love to that's what they do.
		That's why witches can do what they want.
		A potion can't do anything.
		So if he wanted out, he could have got out through the cat.
		Yeah, that's what I didn't think of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's probably true.
		I mean, a spirit could enter a cat, I think.
		But I'm no expert in these matters, so I don't know.
unidentified		Spirits like to pretend like you are in control and use that as leverage against you to do what they want in the spirit world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you, knowing that Everett's there, either voluntarily or not, would you sleep wild, caller?
unidentified		No, I wouldn't allow him to be there, number one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So why would you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd serve up some sort of eviction notice.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, thank you.
		Had you.
		You really should think about that, Rodney.
		In other words, Everett really could have jumped into your cat instead of causing your cat to jump.
		And just...
		Maybe your Model 3200 rid pests are keep.
		In other words, the spirit could not leave with those rid pests still operative.
		Even in the cat.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		But there's a chance he could have also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, except your temperature is still low.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So obviously he didn't leave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He might be there voluntarily.
unidentified		Well, I'm not sure he's there voluntarily.
unidentified		I'm just saying he could have if that's what he wished to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or maybe you're going to try and get him to go.
		And he isn't going to go.
		I don't talk about that one.
		In other words, you could turn off the red pests and all the rest of it, and Everett would still be there forever.
unidentified		I think what we'll do is probably try to throw the switch on it sometime Sunday, and I'll let you know what happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that'll be after your wife gets back.
unidentified		Yeah, she'll be home this Saturday morning.
unidentified		She'll be home Sunday morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		West of the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Broadney in Arkansas.
unidentified		Hello, this is Glenn in Bakersfield.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, I got a couple of comments on a really bad joke.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Do you want the bad joke first?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because that might get you blown off the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It'd be better if that happened at the end.
unidentified		Okay.
		I don't necessarily believe in ghosts, but I do believe in demons and angels and things like that.
		And from what he said so far, I would have to believe that since Rodney said that he would stay even after he turns it off, I'd have to guess that the ghost is probably, or the demon or whatever it is, is probably lying to him.
		And if he's lying to him, then it's not necessarily a good spirit.
		And if it's a bad spirit, then he's going to be in trouble when he turns it off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's an awfully good point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's an awfully good point.
unidentified		And he's also mentioned that he has some other cousins somewhere else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you imagine how much bottled-up anger this thing must have?
unidentified		Yes, I wouldn't necessarily turn that off unless I had the father that was there with me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a very good point, Rodney.
		I really think it's a good point.
		This thing, I know if I was Everett, I'd be really ticked off at you.
		I might not say it because I'd keep hoping to charm you into letting me go.
		But I would have a lot of pent-up anger.
		Lots of that.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rodney.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
unidentified		Hey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to turn your radio off, sir.
unidentified		Okay, it's off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, go ahead.
unidentified		Okay, this is Joe from Nashville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Joe.
unidentified		I've got a few comments here about as far as those sound waves.
		Is that what's supposedly holding him in there?
		Yeah.
		What knows the bouncing off the walls and just going all through the room itself, you know, so the whole room would be saturated with those?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I think they're directional.
		Those kind of waves clearly can be made to be directional.
		I think that's what he's done.
unidentified		And also on the thermometers, I don't know how accurate they are, but has he tried switching them, you know, switching them out and seeing if the readings are the same or if they change, you know, back to where they are now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's a very good point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, for example, Rodney, have you tried putting another thermometer in there just to test the accuracy of that one, or have you tried taking that one out?
unidentified		No, I haven't.
		That's a good point.
		And something else you could do is switch them around.
		The one reading warmer put on the inside and see if it goes cooler.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Right.
		So do that.
		And again, it's very important that you get a photograph of all this.
unidentified		I sure will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Rodney in Arkansas.
unidentified		How are you doing, Rodney?
		I've got a couple quick things for you, Rodney.
		One is, don't be too offended.
		Some of these people are trying to scare you.
		Don't be too mad.
		If he's angry at you, just turn your rib pest back on him again.
		He'll run.
		I mean, you got the weapon right there.
		I sure do.
		If he gets nasty, just turn it on him again.
		And if he said he's not trapped, well, don't feel bad.
		He said he's not trapped.
		But you may even want to consider pulling out the old Leech Board red button now and using that as a kind of telephone.
		Or you might want to just put a four sales sign out in front of the house, and while your wife's gone, pack up and let her know by phone, leave her until she works.
		Get back out of there.
		Don't take your sister or something, Rodney.
		You didn't mean him any harm.
		Right.
		And I think he can sense that.
		Yeah, and I could use that as a weapon.
		I didn't think of that.
		Oh, yeah, you've got the protection right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somehow I can see you, though, just wheeling around the room with one of the rib pests in your hand, trying to protect yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I don't know about that.
unidentified		Yeah, I couldn't see what I was fighting against.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you know, I don't like that idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rodney.
unidentified		Yes, this is John Pacifica, California.
		Hi, John.
		Yes, I have some information for you.
		I'm a metaphysical consultant for the last 30 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here's the kind of guy you need, Rodney.
unidentified		All right.
		Yes, what you have trapped there is known by a number of different names.
		It's Luciferian, Gremlin.
		That's why they're causing all the plane crashes.
		What they are are astral beings that inhabit the etheric plane close to the physical plane.
		And they cause plane crashes, they cause car crashes, and a lot of house fires are happening lately, too, because they live off the life force that's given off of people that are killed suddenly.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sir, does this sound like...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it sound logical that he could have done this?
unidentified		Well, the reason that he's able to do it now, he wouldn't have been able to do it a year ago, is because the astral plane and the physical plane are now coming into alignment.
		They're merging.
		And a lot of the astral entities are being made more dense.
		They're densifying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but I've got to ask again, the specific question, does it sound logical to you that he could have trapped one of these things the way he has done it?
unidentified		Absolutely.
		He couldn't have done it.
		As I said, he couldn't have done it a couple of years ago because the astral plane and the physical plane were too far apart.
		But now they're being brought together.
		It's like mentioned in Redfield's The Tenth Insight, where the afterlife world and the physical world are being brought together.
		Now, this is essential for bringing about the new age.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, look, that's getting pretty deep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What does he do with this thing?
unidentified		Keep it locked up.
		Keep it there.
		Don't turn off the switch because the thing that's going to destroy this thing and its cousins, as it refers to, are other demons.
		They're very dangerous, is the photon belt.
		The intensity of the photon belt, the light energy, the spiritual forces coming through the photon belt will destroy all these entities.
		If he lets it go, chances are he'll either die in a car wreck or his house will burn down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man.
unidentified		These are the entities that hover close to the earth.
unidentified		They're seen by psychic entities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I think we've got the message.
		Thank you very much.
		Rodney, now what?
		I mean, there's expert advice.
unidentified		Let it go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'll die in a car crash or your house will burn down.
unidentified		That's a tough decision there, Art.
unidentified		But I think I'll take my chances with letting it go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		With the kids in the house?
		I'd get the kids out of there.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rodney.
		Hello.
		Hi.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Is this the Art Bell Show?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
dr leonard horowitz ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Hey, I hope Rodney's got his insurance policy well paid for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		I'm listening to the through you, through WTDM here in Madison, Wisconsin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Apparently, the call signals stand for We Two Dumb Yuppies.
unidentified		But anyway, we got some concerns here because I don't know if Rodney's been nipping into his bottle spirits or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's ask him that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rodney, have you been doing any controlled substances?
unidentified		I've not done any since last New Year's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Last New Year's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How about the bottle?
unidentified		Not at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Haven't been tipping the bottle?
		Not a bit.
		And you'd swear on anything available, this is all true.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there you go, caller.
unidentified		I got another question, sir.
		Yes.
		As you probably know, in Scandinavia, they are the world leaders in cold-temperature electronics.
		And they analyze brain waves from people's brains.
		They don't freeze the people, but they actually, through cold temperature, can measure these brain waves.
		And I have a physicist electronics friend of mine who allegesly claims that they trapped not one, but three, three spirits, accidentally, and that they are from Sidonia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Arizona?
unidentified		No, Sidonia.
		Sidonia are, Homer mentions them.
		They're the Phoenicians.
		And Homer mentions the Phoenicia.
		We call them the Phoenicians.
		So 1,700 years before the time of Christ, they appeared in the Near East where Sidon, Tyre is.
		They gave us the alphabet.
		Nobody knows where they came from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did they do?
		Well, okay, they got them trapped.
		What did they do with them?
unidentified		Well, here's the situation, Arch.
		Very interesting.
		Now, this engineer alleges this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, listen, Color.
		I've got a break I've got to go to.
		Do you want to hold on?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold on, please.
		Rodney, hang in there.
		We'll be right back.
		Rodney has trapped Everett in a series of RIDPES 3200, Model 3,200 bug things, pet things, and he's got Everett.
		We're trying to figure out what to do.
unidentified		We're trying to figure out what to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here we go again.
		We have Rodney from Arkansas.
		If you're just joining us, Rodney has trapped Everett, who Is a spirit.
		In a sort of a latch-up made up of a number, quite a number, of RIDPest 3200s.
		He confirms that Everett is indeed in there because the temperature has maintained about a seven-degree difference with the rest of the room.
		And it has done this since Everett has been trapped.
		Everett was trapped about 30 hours ago now.
		And so, Rodney, there you are.
		And Caller, you're back on the air.
unidentified		Yes, I have two serious questions to ask of Rodney, but before I ask them, and I hope he's honest when he answers them, I must continue on just for a minute about the Sidoni.
		They are the Phoenicians.
		Homer called them the Phoenicians, but he mentioned that they themselves have a name for themselves, the Sidoni.
		And you have been talking about Sidonia on your shows every now and then.
		It's very interesting.
		In any event, they are apparently a very intelligent tribe that came up with our alphabet.
		1,700 people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir, but that may or may not relate to what...
unidentified		They're related to the Finno-Uralic people.
		But my question now is, this engineer alleges they did actually get a picture of these three spirits.
		Cool.
		Now, Rodney must do the following.
		But first, does Rodney have any stock or is he a CEO of this RIDPest company?
		And two, can he take a picture through a night vision scope because that way you can pick up some temperature differences?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, hold on.
		That's a good suggestion.
		First of all, do you have stock in or are you part of the RIDPest company, Rodney?
unidentified		Neither one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Neither one?
unidentified		No, I'm a factory worker, as a matter of fact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, there's your answer.
unidentified		Okay, what about taking a picture through that night scope?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a night scope?
unidentified		I have no night scope.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Didn't have a night scope.
unidentified		Well, you better get that picture and then send that to Art Bell right away so we can get it and take a good look.
		Otherwise, Rodney, I think you're the fellow who's talking that rolled-up dog poopy, and you better go out and get yourself another phone.
		Right, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		All right, now I've got several pieces of advice by fax.
		My fax machine is going absolutely crackers here.
		Art, what are some things that Everett has predicted, aside from the air disaster, which we've already documented for you as true?
		What else did he predict?
unidentified		Okay, I told you earlier in the show that there was two more questions since the email that I've sent you.
		And the, well, it wasn't really a question.
		It was a statement.
		And he said that within two weeks, we would find the ancient records.
		And I have no idea what this is about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's one.
unidentified		And the other one was what I did tell you at the time was that we could turn off the contraption.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's right.
		That's right.
		That's right.
		And it's cool.
		He'd stay.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Dear Art, I suggest Rodney apologize to Everett.
		Really apologize.
		What the caller said about violating cosmic laws makes good sense.
		I believe there's a greater law we must abide by, and Rodney is seriously breaking it.
		He should let Everett go from Hawaii.
unidentified		Well, I'm seriously considering that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And then this.
		Rodney had better be praying that he does not suffer a power outage.
unidentified		You know, the last blink just a minute ago wasn't a power outage, but I guess the heat kicked on or something.
unidentified		It kind of threw my heart into overdraft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
		Just drew the power down a little bit.
		Every time the power blinks or something, you must really, your heart must increase.
unidentified		Bye.
		music
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rodney in Arkansas.
unidentified		Hi, my name's Jason.
		I'm in L.A. Yes, Jason.
		And the thing I wanted to comment is that that type of pest control thing that you're using, Rodney, that thing, if you look on the directions, which on all those types of things are, they only work on insects and small rodents.
		So being that your cat is not a rodent, it's not going to affect it the way what you're saying that happened is not really going to happen if, being that your cat's not a rodent.
		In short, that's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, you're suggesting the reaction of the cat had nothing to do with the RID pest last year.
unidentified		Exactly, because if you notice, if you look at any of these mechanisms that do this, it'll say on the box, save for household pets.
		That's absolutely right.
		I remember that.
		And the other thing is that as far as the picture goes, this guy that just called before talking about this night vision camera or whatever this crap that he's talking about, what the thing is, is if you notice, whenever you watch sightings or any of these other shows, when people take pictures of families outside of the house and they'll notice a figure that's in the window that wasn't there, there was no one in the house, everyone was outside.
		These were done with regular standard cameras that you buy at the store.
		So if you had a normal, like it's one of those new $25 Polaroids, those Instamatic cameras, or a normal type 35mm camera, if there is such an entity in there, you're going to see it on that average camera, which again, to emphasize it's what everyone sees these things with, with these average cameras.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, what kind of camera do you have, Rodney?
unidentified		An Alta 35mm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would that be good color?
unidentified		There you go.
		And also another thing is on sightings, I want to make this real brief, that if you take a video camera, and again, this works the same thing as with the snapshot type cameras.
		If you take a video camera and you film the area where it's at, obviously you're not going to see anything because, as they say, naked eye cannot see these types of things.
		But if you videotape it and you go back and play the videotape in your VCR, if there's something in the picture in the snapshot, you're going to conceivably see it also on the videotape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		Well, we appreciate the advice.
		Thank you very much.
		Rodney.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rodney, turn off the power.
		I'll be good.
		First time calling align, you're on the air with Rodney.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yes.
		Hi, Arpel.
		This is Mike.
		I'm calling from Memsville, Indiana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I've been to your show for about, oh, maybe a month now, not quite a month.
		Great show, by the way.
		Fascinating.
		I was going to tell Rodney one thing that I have what's called a pest raider three.
		I have five of them in my house because we live in a low-lying area and we have pests, you know, we did have constantly until I got these in.
		They work great.
		Mine sent them out in two directions, and they don't go through walls or anything like that.
		They do bounce around.
		And according to, I've got my manual right here, and it says it's based on pets.
		We've got a little kitten named Pockets In here, and it's had no effect on it.
		My question was: Has he tried using a digital camera?
		We just got a digital camera recently, and I've been taking pictures like crazy.
		And on our printout, all of the kids have these little fuzzy things.
		It's strange, it sounds stupid, but they have these little fuzzy things around them.
		I guess what you'd call auras or something.
		But we took it to a shop to get fixed because obviously, you know, there's something wrong with it.
		And they said there's absolutely nothing wrong with this thing.
		It doesn't do it on everybody.
		But I was thinking, you know, if by some really bizarre thing that might be an aura, maybe he might try using a digital camera.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A digital camera, all right?
		Well, that's a good suggestion.
		Boy, we've had many.
		After listening to all the callers, it's like being between a rock and a hard place on this because half of them say you should set it free, and the other half say, don't, you'll die in a car crash or your house will burn down or something.
		Which way are you leaning?
unidentified		That's going to take some thought, but I'm leaning towards setting it free.
unidentified		If that was me that had been captured in a future life or in the other world, I wouldn't like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		But think about it.
		You might be angry, even vengeful, once you got free.
		Tough choice.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Rodney.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		Smoker David Mace.
		It's been a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Got one comment from your earlier show.
unidentified		The New York Blood Center is now under grand jury investigation regards some of their testing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there you are.
unidentified		And now to Rodney.
		Regards to Dr. Father Malachi Martin, you might consider, I don't think you'll be possessed, but I think maybe Everett will be harassing you when you let him go.
		So when you do turn off the power, you might want to set up another array that's big enough where you can jump in because I don't think Everett would follow you back in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
		You're right, caller.
		In other words, he could be possessed.
		Don't discount that possibility.
		If I was Rodney, I think when I turned off the power, I'd get the kids and the wife out.
		And then I'd go to the main switch box, hopefully outside the house, and turn the power off there.
unidentified		Yeah, but he might want that power back on so that the spirit or entity wouldn't pass through the barrier to get to Rodney.
		Well, I couldn't live there the rest of my life.
		Oh, no, no, but bring in and sell your phone and give Father Martin a call and get an exercise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Get something done on the phone, you mean?
		I wonder if you...
		All right.
		Thank you.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rodney.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, Arch.
		This is Steve from Sacramento.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Steve.
unidentified		And I would just like to make a couple of statements real quick.
		First of all, you can manipulate air temperature with sound waves.
		There's even a refrigerator you can buy that uses sound waves to make your food cold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		The Japanese invented it maybe 10 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think that's why the air might be getting cold?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		Here's a good way to check it.
		Before you ever trapped this thing, turned the power on, that is, did you have the thermostat there when your wife was channeling this thing in?
unidentified		No, because we didn't realize that it was cold at the time until she said that it was cold in that area.
		We never thought there'd be a need to...
		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		And also, I'd like to say you have a unique opportunity here because there have been recordings of spirits on tape recorders using microphones and stuff.
		Right now, if he's close enough to this apparatus, if he can simply flip the phone receiver in there, if this entity wants to communicate, we can do it nationwide right now.
		Give me try that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah?
unidentified		I have to get the cordless.
unidentified		Can you hang on just a minute?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, a cordless phone?
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would mean you'd, let's see, you'd have to throw the cordless phone in there, wouldn't you?
unidentified		No, I'll just put it up close.
unidentified		Now, is that what the caller was asking?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess so.
		I guess so.
		I don't know if you'd have to cross the barrier or not.
unidentified		Well, I'm not going to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't blame you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're not going to actually throw the cordless phone in as you did the cat?
unidentified		No.
		Right?
		Yeah, there's an idea.
		I'll get my wife to retrieve it when she gets back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but wait, no, no, wait.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It'll be on when you throw it in.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right?
		So.
		Go ahead and get your cordless.
		Let's find a decent way.
		This is worth a try.
		This is going to get close.
		I don't know if I'm going to have him throw it in there or not, because then his line would be busy.
		I suppose he could turn the base unit off after that.
		There ought to be a way.
		Find out where the base unit is.
		Are you there?
unidentified		I'm there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now listen.
unidentified		This minute.
		Anton.
		Yeah.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now listen.
		Here's a way you can do it.
		Where is your base unit located?
unidentified		My base unit's about 20 feet from the area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now what I'm suggesting is if you do, we'll try holding it up and then we'll try throwing it in.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And once it's in there, as long as your base unit is on, it's going to hang your phone line up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what you can do is throw it in in the on position and then when you're done with the experiment, you can unplug your base unit.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that'll free your line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see what I'm saying?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so let's give it a try.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Get close first.
unidentified		Okay, I'm on the cordless now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
unidentified		We're just going to hold it up next to it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, hold it up next to it.
		I'll turn the volume up.
		We'll see if we can hear anything.
unidentified		Amen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear absolutely nothing.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but of course, you don't ever hear anything either, do you?
unidentified		Never.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here's what we've got to do now, Rodney.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I want you to throw the phone in there, but after you do it, we're going to listen for, I don't know, a few seconds and see if we can hear anything.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then I want you to go get on the other phone and leave the cordless going so if there's anything that's said during the last few minutes of the program, we'll hear it.
		You see what I'm saying?
		All right, so go ahead and throw the cordless in.
unidentified		Oh.
		Oh.
		All right, it's there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's there and operating inside the field.
unidentified		Yeah, I suppose it's operating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we have no way of knowing if it's working, but I didn't hear it I don't think I heard it disconnect, so I presume it's still on.
unidentified		Right.
		Uh the uh base looks like it is.
		The base lights up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The base is receiving.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then it's it's on inside the field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, whatever you do, don't go and retrieve it.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we'll just listen as we take the last few calls here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rodney.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Art, how in the world are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're listening.
unidentified		Interesting.
		Interesting.
		Yeah.
		Ken, this is Ken.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, Ken?
unidentified		Arkansas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Arkansas.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm in Eldorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
unidentified		How you doing, Rodney?
		Just fine, Ken.
		You holding up?
		All right, huh?
		Hey, I do have one suggestion, and that is this, because of the creative power that we have in us, in other words, as a direct connection with God and your being, pretty much whatever you believe about this being, whether good, evil, whatever, it's going to react to you the same way, to respond to you the same way.
		In other words, you can make a connection, and it's either good or evil, depending on your state of being.
		Does that make sense?
		Yeah, it does.
		So there's really nothing to fear except yourself.
		Right.
		Okay?
		First of all, fear of the unknown.
		Yeah, that's exactly right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		It's a manifestation that is similar to you.
unidentified		You're a spirit being.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what would you say if he flipped the switch and tomorrow you read in the paper there in Arkansas about Rodney's house burning down?
unidentified		Well, I'd come up and help him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I sure would.
		All right.
		All right, sir.
		Thank you very much.
		First time caller line.
		You're on the air with Rodney.
unidentified		How are you doing?
unidentified		Art calling from the other side of the Spring Mountains.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		On a VTAC.
		I just want to let this Rodney know that, you know, this doesn't happen to everybody, and he really should hold on to it and speak to a professional or bring a professional on in there because you just don't let this thing go.
		I know eventually during his lifetime or during the next couple of weeks, if he wants to make himself feel a little better, he should let it go on his own.
		You know, because it's going to go sometime, don't you agree?
		It will escape eventually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
unidentified		Why get...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think it's lying its little spirit butt off.
unidentified		Well, with Everett, where did the name originate anyway?
unidentified		I never got that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
unidentified		Well, you don't know?
		No idea.
		You just named it Everett.
		No, I didn't name it at all.
		Now, when my wife contacted it, she asked him what its name was or what to call it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it said Everett.
unidentified		Right.
		Don't you think Everett will take it easy on you a little bit if you do let it go, say, in about a week or two?
		Or until you get somebody that can easily get it out if I kept him for a year.
		But he might be a little ticked off that I've kept him for 30 hours now.
		Well, I really believe if you let him go, say, in about a day or two, he really, like the other caller said, I think he might be playing games with you, and he probably could leave at any time.
		But Art, he used to hear listen to you in Cleveland.
		I enjoy you out here in Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my friend.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		Have a good morning.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Rodney in Arkansas.
unidentified		Good morning, Art, and good morning, Rodney.
		Good morning.
		Rodney, I think what you've done is super fantastic.
		And if you're joking with all of us out here in the world, have fun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think he is.
unidentified		Well, I don't either.
		I wouldn't call you, Art.
		This is Ron here in Perump, but if you remember right, on Halloween night, I gave you a call and I told your story up and spoke about and spoke in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I absolutely recall these.
unidentified		All right.
		Rodney, did you happen to be listening to that?
		No, I didn't.
		Well, I come across an entity that I spoke with and spoke with him telepathically.
		I don't believe you're in any fear of all, of any problems.
		I think if something's going to hurt you, it's going to hurt you right away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, not if it's trapped in the RID-Pass 3200s.
unidentified		Well, I agree with you, Art, on that fact, but if it is trapped, he's just in a situation that he wants out of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, well, that's for doggone, sure.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, without a lot of time, you're on the air with Rodney in Arkansas.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		I'm Dave from Fort Lauderdale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Dave.
unidentified		We lose you here at 6 a.m., so I haven't been able to listen for the last hour.
unidentified		I'm not sure what's been coming up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've got Rodney on.
unidentified		Yeah, I realize that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who's got Everett?
unidentified		Yes, I know that.
unidentified		I was wondering if it was mentioned before that it might be possible that he has a gray in his possession.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is an ominous song.
unidentified		Yeah, I thought about that whenever you said something about that pitcher.
		That has been brought up before?
		Well, I've been receiving kind of a sense of affirmation over the last several years about topics like this.
		And if it were me, I think I would just ask for some kind of assistance and guidance and see what happens from there.
		Maybe it might be a good idea to see if you can summon some positive forces.
		I'm not sure what to do about it myself, but that's my suggestion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what?
		We're about out of time here.
		And Rodney, I'm really afraid.
		I'm not going to give you any advice because it might be the wrong advice.
		I really sense that you're between very much a rock and a hard place here.
		I'm not at all sure it would be safe for you to release it, and I'm not sure it's safe for you to keep it.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is that?
unidentified		That's the clock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Clock, okay, good.
unidentified		It's 6 o'clock here or close to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's right.
		That's right.
		You're a couple hours ahead, aren't you?
		A couple hours and apparently about four minutes.
		You need to reset your clock.
		So I don't have any advice for you.
		I think, Rodney, that you should not let it go at the very least until your wife gets home.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because you don't know a lot about this, do you?
unidentified		No, I don't.
		As that other caller from Fort Smith said, we've got people here in the area that can handle that.
		I may look locally for help.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Look, the audience will want a follow-up.
		So whatever it is you decide to do, and I put no pressure on you to do anything, would you email me or fax me so I know and the audience knows You're safe and let us know what the disposition of Everett has been.
unidentified		Yeah, I will, and I'll send you that picture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll look forward to it.
		We all will.
		It's quite a dilemma.
		Good luck to you, Rodney.
unidentified		Well, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Well, all right, for copies of the show with Rodney and Everett, or for copies of the show with Dr. Len Horowitz, call 1-800-917-4278.
		I swear, I think he's related to Mike Markham.
		Maybe not.
		1-800-917-4278.
		That's it from the high desert.

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