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Nov. 22, 1996 - Art Bell

03:08:55

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dr. Leonard Horowitz - Emerging Viruses. Rodney the Captured Spirit

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	Talk Radio 790k ABC presents Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you good evening, or good morning as the case may be, a Friday night, Saturday morning, or a Monday night, Tuesday morning as the case may be, in all these great time zones, These many, many time zones from the Tahitian and Hawaiian island chains in the west all the way east to the Caribbean, U.S.
	Virgin Islands, soon Puerto Rico, south into South America and north all the way to the pole worldwide on the internet.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell.
	With all the dangers our world faces, really big dangers, The biggest may be the smallest.
	Viruses.
	And that's what we're going to talk about this morning with Dr. Len Horowitz.
	And he wrote a monstrous book on emerging viruses.
	AIDS and Ebola.
	Nature accident or intentional?
	We'll talk about their nature.
	Perhaps the Gulf War.
	Well, I want to say virus.
	I don't know it's virus.
	Might be a virus.
	We're going to find out.
	We're going to talk generally about viruses and why there seem to be more of them like everything else these days.
	And so we will get to that shortly.
	There was a line in a famous movie that I saw recently in which a female agent, intelligence agent, said, I never let the little things bother me.
	Some little things should bother you, and they are the small ones, the viruses.
	Dr. Len Horowitz, welcome to the program.
	Thank you, Art.
	You are presently on the road, I take it?
	Book signing or something?
	Yes, I'm speaking tomorrow.
	Actually, a Monday night at the... Let's see, where am I?
	Monday night at the Deep River Bookstore in West Hollywood, Santa Monica, Hollywood, California.
	I see.
	Well, at least it has dried up for you.
	It's been very wet through California and in my area.
	It's finally beginning to dry up a little.
	Doctor, what in the world got you interested In viruses, the tough ones, AIDS, Ebola, Level 4, I think they call them?
	Yeah.
	Well, you remember the case of the Florida dentist who infected his patients with the AIDS virus?
	Of course.
	Well, I became the chief investigator of the murder theory in that case.
	At the time, that was July 27th, 1990, when the case broke, I was operating as the chief professional advisor for the largest dental and medical catalog supply company in the world.
	The CEO asked me because of my background.
	I have a master's in public health from Harvard in behavioral science.
	I was a dentist for 16 years.
	I got a degree from Tufts.
	I had another master's degree in health education.
	My background was in media, health education, health promotion, and fear, anxiety.
	I was asked to develop patient educational literature to help allay people's fear of
	going into dental and medical offices.
	You remember how afraid everyone was?
	I still am.
	You've joined millions of Americans who feel the same way.
	And not just because of the possibility of viruses.
	I'm afraid of a dentist, period.
	Well, I can help you in both ways.
	But at any rate, at the time I started to investigate the Florida dental AIDS tragedy because of this assignment.
	And I began by researching the Centers for Disease Control's official investigation reports.
	I found them initially to be scientifically questionable.
	I later found that they were scientifically bogus.
	Then I found about a year later that they were fraudulent.
	They had literally deleted much of the evidence, the incriminating evidence, against Dr. David Acker.
	Who, the bottom line showed, had intentionally injected his patients with HIV-tainted anesthetics because he believed he needed to express a vendetta against the government.
	He believed that he was dying from a virus that the government had purposely created, as well as intentionally deployed.
	Alright, have we proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that Dr. Acker did this?
	In other words, have they looked at What is it that you look at in the AIDS virus that makes it a specific virus traceable from one person to another?
	A DNA sequence, which was done by the world's leading DNA sequencing analyst for the Los Alamos, for the government's laboratory, it was Los Alamos Laboratories, Gerald Myers.
	and that was not the only thing that was relied upon.
	There were numerous other investigations ongoing as to what the alternative explanations were,
	whether it was patient-to-patient transmission, whether it was an accidental injury,
	whether it was the use of unsterilized equipment or instruments, or whether it was a super-infectious strain
	of the virus.
	And none of those theories held water except for the murder theory.
	All right well if I may let me ask you 2020 some years ago did quite a piece on dentists and if the drilling equipment was not Sterilized.
	They in fact proved that blood was held up inside and then when drilling another patient would be transferred.
	So, that was ruled out.
	That was ruled out.
	What they showed is that it's true that sterilization of hand pieces is important, but in that particular case it was not because the patient had not received the use of the same hand pieces or the same 30 instruments.
	So that had been ruled out about a year and a half before.
	In fact, it was the 2020 segment and the Street Stories segment.
	Right.
	How do we know that Dr. Acker had the attitude you described?
	That he felt that the government had done this and he was going to get back at them by killing others.
	How do we know he had that attitude?
	Because I did something that you didn't hear about, nor did any of the American people.
	I cross-matched Dr. Acker's personality profile with those of 36 serial killers studied by the FBI.
	I used the FBI's methods and materials to evaluate and investigate the case, and Dr. Acker maintained a classic organized serial killer personality profile, crime scene profile, and developmental history.
	That's how come I can say with a great deal of confidence, and I published this in December 1994 issue of the British Dental Journal, initially in an article called Murder and Cover-Up Could Explain the Florida Dental AIDS Mystery, and then that subsequently led to the publication of my last book called Deadly Innocence, the Kimberly-Bergalis case.
	Now, the American news media blacked it out.
	I was interviewed on the BBC.
	British dentists and the British people know more about this issue than the American people.
	Well, that's frequently true of BBC reporting.
	It's very thorough.
	So, how many people did he infect?
	Dr. Acker is now known to have infected somehow, they say.
	According to the government, it's a mystery still.
	It's no mystery.
	If you read my material, you read Deadly Innocence, and they say six, and there's definitely six, but maybe as many as a dozen.
	Um, I can understand that you could do a study of Dr. Acker from the perspective of the modus operandi of a serial killer and come to the conclusion that he had done this in a serial manner.
	How did you determine that he had an attitude that he, in effect, had been killed by the government?
	That was what launched me into the Emerging Viruses, AIDS, and Ebola investigation.
	See, because Dr. Acker's motives were screaming loud and clear in the legal testimony.
	In essence, he did what all organized serial killers love to do.
	You know how they play games with, you know, creating catch-22s for the authorities like the Mail Bomber?
	Oh yes.
	Okay?
	This is the type of felon that Dr. Acker was.
	He believed he was infected with the virus because he had gotten a hold of, or in essence what he did was he created a crime that couldn't be solved without implicating the government.
	If they told the truth, then everybody would want to know motives.
	And as I said, the motive was loud and clear, screaming in the legal testimonies, and it was that Dr. Acker had gotten a hold of Dr. Robert Stricker's material.
	Yes.
	You remember the Strecker Memorandum?
	I interviewed him, yes.
	Oh, okay.
	So, do you remember his brother Ted Strecker had obtained through the Freedom of Information Act an extraordinary document?
	A 1970 Department of Defense appropriations request for $10 million for a five-year study to develop immune system-ravaging viruses.
	That's right.
	Germ warfare.
	That's correct, yes.
	Okay, that was the document that drove Dr. Acker crazy.
	And when I found that document, I lived in denial for about eight months.
	I could not believe that this was a legitimate document.
	And then after I was done with that Lee Innocence investigation,
	I finally, curiosity got the better of me.
	I went back into Harvard's Countway Library where I did most of my postdoctoral research
	and I began to dig.
	And what I did in my latest book, emerging viruses, AIDS and Ebola is I tracked that money.
	I tracked that document.
	That document is legitimate.
	I show you exactly where out of the congressional record it was pulled and made classified.
	I then show you where the money went.
	The money went to Litton Bionetics Research Laboratories, a subsidiary of the mega military weapons contracting firm Litton Industries.
	And I show you exactly What they did to take this money and create numerous AIDS-like and Ebola-like viruses, I show you who did this, when they did it, how they did it virtually every step of the way, and because most people can't imagine it, I literally reprinted the government contracts under which these types of viruses were developed, including how much the bioengineers were paid.
	Doctor, backtracking for just one second, I've never heard, how did Dr. Acker get infected?
	He got infected, I believe, in 1985.
	He had a sex partner who was HIV positive, and that sex partner, after the affair, called Dr. Acker, told him that he was HIV positive and that Dr. Acker should get tested, and Dr. Acker lived.
	That's one of his traits, in denial.
	And so he never did get tested until It was December 18th, October 8th, 1987, was when he first really realized.
	He waited two years at least.
	I see.
	Fascinating.
	Let's backtrack.
	Before we begin talking about the origin a little bit, I've got a piece of material on you here, and it says, sure, AIDS came from African monkeys, but what they don't tell you is what they did to the monkeys.
	And I was curious what that meant.
	Well, what that means is that's exactly what I learned.
	What they did to the monkeys is they, and when I say they, I'm talking about now the famed or infamous Dr. Robert Gallo, the alleged discoverer of the AIDS virus in 1984.
	Yes.
	And co-investigators Robert King and Herrera Adamson, Stringer Yang, as well as John Landon at Lytton Biomedics Research Laboratories.
	They took Monkeys, various types of monkeys, rhesus monkeys, woolly monkeys, and they took monkey viruses, like SB40, simian virus 40, which was the 40th monkey virus ever discovered, and other monkey viruses, which were humanly benign, or at least considered at that time to be humanly benign, although we now know, and we have evidence to suggest that people who said that they caused cancer were defunded and demoted and demoralized.
	Uh, but at any rate, they took these monkeys viruses and they recombined them with virtually every animal cancer virus under the sun.
	They recombined them, for example, with feline leukemia virus RNA.
	Chicken leukemia sarcoma virus RNA.
	That caused immune suppression, wasting, and death.
	The cat leukemia caused a laundry list of symptoms virtually identical to what AIDS patients suffer from.
	What were they ostensibly trying to do?
	I mean, surely they were not trying to create something horrible, even if it ended up that way.
	The purpose of their research stated, at least, must have been something positive.
	Yes, indeed.
	I would say that 98% of the people, in fact even Dr. Robert Gallo, I have an interesting story about him, but what gets him off the hook is that he published.
	He left a paper trail in his wildest nightmares or imagination.
	He probably wouldn't have published any at all thought that it would have gotten out accidentally or by intent.
	But what they were doing, they were under Four different types of contracts.
	The first, as I mentioned, was the Department of Defense Biological Weapons Development.
	They believed that the Russians were going to get ahead of us, and for national security reasons, they developed these types of viruses for germ warfare.
	Can't have an AIDS gap, huh?
	Right.
	Exactly.
	And when I tell you who ordered these viruses, you're going to be, like, appalled.
	You know, it'll be unbelievable.
	We'll go into the social-political background.
	I hope we'll have time for that.
	Oh, yes.
	Then they were also developing these viruses because, for the National Cancer Institute, number one, they were still interested in evaluating the cancer virus, cancer theory.
	It still was not determined definitively that cancer viruses cause cancer in humans.
	They knew this to be true for animals.
	During the 1960s, during what was called the Special Virus Cancer Program.
	In other words, they were looking, if I've got this straight, for a viral cause for cancer.
	That's correct.
	Alright.
	And then, not only that, they were looking for vaccines to cure cancer.
	Sure.
	And early diagnostic screening methods to find cancer viruses in tissues in a hopeful effort that once you've found it, you can eliminate it and then prevent cancer.
	I've got it.
	Alright.
	So, that's what they were looking for.
	However, they ended up creating You believe the AIDS virus?
	There's no doubt in my mind.
	As a matter of fact, I was privileged to be the first investigator in the history of the esteemed International AIDS Conference on July 10th of this year to present the first scientific paper saying that these are undoubtedly laboratory creations.
	And as I said, I go into who made them, when they made them, how they made them, and show you the contracts under which they were made.
	So, they've created numerous AIDS-like and Ebola-like viruses.
	How did it get loose?
	Most plausibly, during the 1974 experimental hepatitis B vaccine that was administered simultaneously to 200,000 human subjects in New York City and Central Africa.
	In New York City, the subjects were Rollerbrook State School mentally retarded children, gay men in New York City, So, you're saying it really did get out by accident?
	No, I can't conclude that.
	I conclude that it's highly plausible.
	First of all, this is what I conclude.
	I conclude that it's definitely not natural.
	These are undoubtedly laboratory creations, and I cite all the evidence, and the evidence is overpowering and overwhelming.
	It's obvious to anybody who looks at, gives it a fair shake.
	All right, well, we'll give it a good fair shake tonight.
	Doctors, stand by, and we'll be right back to you.
	My guest is Dr. Len Horowitz.
	His latest book of ten is Emerging Viruses, and they certainly are doing that.
	So you might want to take a couple of hours here and worry about the little things.
	I'm Art Bell and this is the CBC Radio Network.
	Dr. Len Horowitz Doctor, a few questions about the nature of AIDS.
	One is, for example, if you get it, how long does it take you to die?
	It varies.
	From as little as two years to indefinitely.
	You could live with HIV indefinitely.
	You could?
	Yep.
	Well, that's a new conclusion.
	Well, that's not really that new.
	It's just the fact that most people aren't aware of that scientific fact because the media and many, many of the principal investigators have been hyping that once infected, you're gonna die.
	But certainly, that's just not the case.
	Well, as a matter of fact, so much so that insurance companies were paying death benefits before people died based on calculations of when they'd be dead.
	That's correct.
	So, you're saying people could live indefinitely?
	That's correct.
	I mean, right now there's about 13% of the...
	Day community in San Francisco that have lived for more than 16, 17 years with the virus, with the infection, without having any symptoms.
	Likewise, there's about 8% of the hemophiliac population that get pumped full of a ton of viruses and the contaminated blood and blood clotting factors and they still have been maintaining their health.
	It really depends on cofactors like lifestyle risks, like nutrition, like
	exercise, like emotional stability, like relationships, like your spirituality. If you believe in God and you have
	faith that the Lord is with you and that you will be healthy and you have a purpose in life and you have meaning
	in your life and you're involved in helping others. Those are the major factors that boost the immune system which is,
	you know, countered by the AIDS virus. Fascinating.
	How many people in America, for example, do you think now carry the AIDS virus and have no idea?
	Well, estimates range from between 500,000 to a million.
	That's a lot of people to be walking around without knowledge of something that will be infecting others.
	Yeah, and they say of those, probably about 60-80% may not know they're infected.
	Um, there have been a number of things I want to ask you about.
	Recent, um, supposed breakthroughs with medicine soups of various, uh, those sorts of medicines put together that they say now will arrest, or at least, um, Stop the AIDS virus from attacking.
	What can you tell us about that?
	Most of what most people have heard is propaganda.
	It's garbage.
	It was just the same type of hype that was given to us about AZT.
	The fact that they're still giving us hype how wonderful AZT is now for pregnant mothers to prevent the babies getting this virus from their mothers.
	I mean all this is literally hocus-pocus.
	It's garbage.
	It's smoke and mirrors.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	I interviewed Dr. Duesberg.
	Yeah, well see, Dr. Duesberg, I could tell you some fascinating things about Dr. Duesberg's early research, because he developed numerous AIDS-like viruses with Dr. Robert Gallo and under NCI contract.
	In fact, Dr. Duesberg was, and I show you his contract in emerging viruses, AIDS and Ebola, I show you his specific contract, he was taking Type C animal cancer viruses and doing the same types of studies with these viruses that Dr. Gallo was working with monkeys.
	With written biomedics researchers, Duesberg was doing it in chickens.
	And even at one point, you know, Duesberg is claiming to this day, he's the doctor for most of your listeners who may not know Duesberg, he's the doctor that's been claiming that HIV does not cause AIDS.
	Do you agree with him?
	Um, I agree with that.
	Well, actually I agree that HIV is a cause factor.
	I'm less strong about it than he is.
	See, when I see Dr. Duesberg, now you have to understand I'm an expert in media.
	I'm not an expert in virology.
	I'm an expert in media.
	I know how the media is used to twist people's minds, and for what purposes.
	And I can tell you that what Dr. Duesbrick is not saying is more important than the 80% of what he's saying.
	The 80% of what he's saying is that HIV does not cause AIDS, that the drugs, lifestyle risks, poppers, and the AZT, TDI, 3TC, protease inhibitors, all that stuff is killing people.
	I agree.
	It is.
	There's probably more people dying from those drugs than the people dying from the actual virus.
	Let me tell you, that's what he said about AZT, that it's killing people, and he said, look, the immune system does, when you take AZT, show a brief spike.
	It shows a spike, and you get a better count for a little while, but then it quickly goes downhill from there, and he claims that AZT is actually what's killing the people.
	I agree with that.
	See, but what he's not telling you, and the typical government disinformation program goes like this, you may be aware of it.
	80% is peppered, 80% truth peppered with about 20% lies.
	See, it was British poet Tennyson that said, lies peppered with half-truths are the hardest matters to fight.
	And indeed, what Dr. Duesberg is saying is 80% correct, and then the other 20% of what he's not telling you is that he was intimately involved in the development of these types of viruses under the highly funded, largely secret, Special Virus Cancer Program, which ran between 1962 and 1976.
	All right.
	AIDS is particularly devastating in Central Africa, of course.
	Yes.
	In Zaire, for example.
	Right.
	And here we are, possibly about to send a whole bunch of American troops into Zaire.
	And I wonder if you feel there is any particular danger for them from either AIDS or Ebola.
	Well, my take is, on regard to the Ebola, that they have been re-releasing Ebola.
	There's a tremendous amount of both circumstantial and scientific evidence to show that.
	Re-releasing?
	Well, I wasn't even aware that they originally released Ebola.
	I've heard all kinds of things.
	It comes from the inside of caves, maybe crystals.
	Nobody really knows for sure where Ebola comes from, do you?
	Yes, I do.
	comes from most plausibly based on the science John Landon's written
	biomedics research study that began in 1965 where he took 18 monkeys he
	inoculated them with the mother of Ebola which was Marburg he actually the mother
	of Ebola was Marburg the mother of Marburg was what John Landon used so like
	a grandmother of Ebola John Landon took that he inoculated that virus into 18
	Nine of them, he reported, died.
	The other nine were shipped to vaccine production facilities.
	Now you remember the movie Outbreak?
	Of course.
	You remember that to save the United States, the researchers had to find that monkey that lived?
	Before they dropped a fuel air bomb on a community, yes.
	Right, indeed.
	And so they found this monkey.
	The monkey lived because it had developed antibodies.
	And that was the monkey that was required to develop the vaccine.
	And though that movie was basically mostly true, all based on fact, Except for the Hollywood ending where they find this monkey and in 48 hours develop a vaccine to save the United States.
	That shows you what they do with the monkeys that live these experiments.
	They send them to the vaccine production facilities and that's exactly where the first Ebola-like virus broke out.
	The Marburg, it was entitled Marburg, it broke out simultaneously in three vaccine production facilities in 1967.
	In Belgrade, Yugoslavia, Frankfurt, Germany, and Marburg, Germany, where it got its name.
	Wow.
	Um, let me ask you about that movie before we leave that.
	Um, the, uh, the contention was that if something like Ebola got loose, and I've often, I've wondered about that, if it did in a community about that size somewhere in the United States, and it was getting loose just about the way it was in that movie, uh, in real life, I suspect that, uh, that last minute cure would not have been found.
	And that they would have been facing the choice that I thought they were facing, and that is to destroy that community and those American citizens.
	What would happen, do you suppose, Doctor, in modern America, if a community began to come down with Ebola?
	They would do probably what they did in that movie.
	They would cordon it off militarily, and they would seriously consider bombing the place.
	Firebombing the place.
	They would burn the bodies.
	It wouldn't touch the bodies.
	Would that be effective?
	Yes, it would for Ebola.
	Now, you know something worse than that, Art?
	What?
	I predict, unless the American public wakes up, that that's exactly what's going to happen.
	And I'm not the only one.
	I don't know if you've read Tom Clancy's new book, Executive Orders.
	Uh, not yet.
	You probably are aware that Tom Clancy is very akin, very close to the CIA?
	I'm a big Clancy fan.
	Okay.
	Well, you know that the CIA invites him to their seminars?
	Wouldn't surprise me.
	They probably read them.
	Right, exactly.
	Well, in Clancy's new book, he's got the scenario that there are these Muslim I thought of that one.
	Last time there was an Ebola outbreak, I thought, boy, you know, if somebody were to make it down there and get a sample of that, they would have a weapon that would be almost like a nuclear device.
	Okay.
	Right.
	You're not alone in your thinking.
	Right.
	In fact, that's what they did.
	Remember I said to you that they re-released Ebola?
	Yes, you said that.
	I said that.
	Now, here's the evidence for it.
	I told at least 2,000, maybe 3,000 health professionals during seminars between January and a year ago, April, was when Ebola kick-whip broke out.
	I recall.
	Okay?
	Now, starting in January, I was already predicting to healthcare professionals throughout the United States during OSHA compliance and infection control seminars That they could expect another Ebola outbreak sometime soon.
	How was I able to predict that given it had not broken out for 20 years?
	Here's how.
	As a media expert, all you have to do is read between the lines and read the writing on the wall.
	First of all, I'm going to call on your memory here.
	You remember the movie Outbreak was trouncing its competitions in the box office?
	Yes.
	You had the book The Hot Zone, number one on the New York Times bestseller list.
	Absolutely.
	You had Newsweek and Time, cover stories, emerging viruses.
	The emerging viruses are coming.
	Yes.
	Then you had the made-for-television movie.
	called virus based on Robin Cook's book, Outbreak.
	This is Monday night, and then the very next Wednesday, and of course you had a rerun of Andromeda Strain on TV as
	well.
	No doubt about it.
	Okay, then the very next Wednesday after that May 4 television movie was largely promoted,
	you had the real thing happen. Ebola kick went. Broke out.
	Now, when the researchers, two days, three days later, investigated that DNA sequence of that viral strain, Lawrence Altman, MD for the New York Times, in a tiny little sentence, in one article that appeared in the middle of the New York Times, said that, quote, scientists were surprised to learn that the DNA sequence of Ebola ticklet was virtually identical to Ebola Zaire.
	Now, how could that happen?
	What do you need to have happen for a virus that mutates very, very rapidly, that would go over 20, would travel over 20 years, over a thousand kilometers away?
	You're saying they absolutely should have found a different DNA sequence, that it was the same, is too coincidental?
	Absolutely.
	The only thing, the answer to the question, what do you need, is you need a refrigerator.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, that's the trouble with viruses.
	They're too easily kept and too easily, I guess, reproduced.
	So it's pretty frightening.
	There's no question about it.
	You're convinced there is somebody.
	Let's talk about Ebola for a second.
	It seems to burn very hot, very fast.
	And I've used this analogy.
	Tell me if it's correct.
	I live out here in the desert.
	And we have a little bit of brush here and a little bit of brush there and not very dense brush.
	If there's an outbreak, if something catches on fire, it burns very brightly, very fast, because it's very dry here in the desert, but it's not close enough to any other brush, generally, to catch it on fire.
	So fires don't spread over a wide area in the desert.
	You got a little fire and it's out.
	Now, in the forest, If it's dry.
	We've got a different situation.
	One match and it goes up like crazy and consumes a very wide area.
	Is that kind of like Ebola?
	In other words, it'll take out a little village and just about everything dies.
	But if it were to ever get loose in a population center outside Washington, D.C.
	Reston, Virginia would be a good place to talk about.
	If it were to get loose there, what would have happened?
	Well, again, Ebola is fairly rapidly brought under control through the use of universal precautions for infection control.
	Gloves and masks and goggles and sterilization and disinfection methods.
	You can treat Ebola patients very well using those techniques so long as you don't get a blood to blood transmission.
	What about airborne?
	Well, that's the issue.
	I'll show you, in Emerging Viruses, AIDS and Ebola, Art, I show you the viruses even that they cause to be airborne.
	How would you like to have an airborne leukemia virus?
	I wouldn't like that.
	It's not that outrageous because the Reston, Virginia case, though it was not infectious to humans, damn well was airborne.
	Right.
	See, I show you that Landon and Bionetics Research Laboratory researchers Including Dr. Robert Gallo, created a combination of influenza and parainfluenza viruses with acute human leukemia viruses.
	They recombined everything.
	You know a couple weeks ago that movie Pandora's Clock?
	Yes.
	Okay, it was the story of a virus getting into an airplane and then they wouldn't allow the airplane to land anywhere.
	They ended up trying to shoot it out of the sky.
	Yes, correct.
	Well, a reporter from the Miami Herald called me And it said to me, Dr. Horwich, you've just written this book, Emerging Viruses, AIDS and Ebola.
	You're an expert.
	He said, what do you think?
	Is this possible that you could create a virus, a respiratory virus, airborne virus, that could cause heart failure?
	I said to him, that's absolutely correct.
	There's no doubt in my mind that you could do that.
	So he types that in.
	And I said, now, can I talk to you off the record for a minute?
	He says, yes.
	I said, I could even tell you who made those viruses.
	He says, what?
	I said, yeah.
	Those types of viruses were made by Mark Kittigney and Alfred Hellman from the Atomic Energy Commission.
	He says, what?
	How do you know that?
	I said, I have their contracts.
	Made with what intent?
	Well, these were made for, again, the different reasons that we talked about earlier.
	Biological weapons, research, cancer research.
	Would people create a weapon?
	A virus, a killer virus, for which they had no cure?
	Um, you know something?
	I suspect they have cures for AIDS that they're not releasing.
	You do?
	Yes, I do.
	There's a lot of evidence that would suggest that.
	A mass amount of circumstantial evidence and some scientific evidence.
	No matter how dark, uh, your motivations with regard to creation of a biological weapon, seems to me that unless you were completely suicidal, you would, uh, you'd create some defense for yourself and your friends and, you know, whoever.
	Right.
	And unless you had financial motives, you would want everybody to have this defense free.
	I mean everybody you wanted to have it.
	Correct.
	So, going back to why did Ebola kick with breakouts.
	Yes.
	Because based on the evidence that I write about this in Emerging Viruses, AIDS and Ebola,
	at that specific time, Gingrich et al. was threatening to take away $150 million out of the CDC's coffers,
	and they wanted their own airplanes.
	And at the same time, the World Health Organization wanted to implement the Rockefeller University plan for an additional $500 million to establish 14 disease surveillance outposts on the fringes of the tropical rainforest.
	You're saying that this was done in order to get funding?
	Great publicity.
	Great publicity.
	And that's what you do.
	You read the media.
	See, as a media expert, behavioral science expert, you can always look for the motives in the press releases.
	You know that 95% of the news that you read is based on a press release.
	But that's a terribly serious allegation.
	Unfortunately, based on all the scientific facts, as well as the circumstantial evidence, any fool would have to speculate that that is a seriously plausible theory and explanation for the events.
	Again, remember, It was the same strain virtually identical to Ebola, Zaire.
	How could a same virus that mutates extremely rapidly with no known host species go 20 years over a thousand miles and come out the same exact virus or virtually identical?
	You know, what you're saying is so close to Outbreak, but it's not even funny.
	None of it's funny.
	But, I mean, it really is very close to the investigative side of outbreak, isn't it?
	Well, Robin Cook is a physician.
	He did exactly what I did.
	He went into the research literature and he started to dig.
	And what I found in the government documents and the scientific reports would make anyone's hair stand on end.
	I mean, if you're basically a normal human being with basic loving motives and ethics and morals, You can't conceive of what these people have done.
	You just cannot.
	If Ebola were to become airborne and get loose in this country, what would happen?
	Well, Ebola would probably break out in the areas that it was released, and it would quickly burn itself out.
	But it might take a city with it?
	There's no doubt.
	All right, doctor, hold tight.
	We'll be back to you after the top of the hour.
	Dr. Len Horowitz is my guest.
	More on the way.
	Leonard Horowitz is a Harvard graduate.
	He's here talking to us about viruses.
	And I asked about Ebola prior to the hour, top of the hour.
	He said, well, if Ebola became airborne and got loose in one of our cities, it would quickly burn out after taking one of our cities.
	And I suppose then there'd be even more funding, wouldn't there, Doctor?
	Indeed.
	You know, Art, before we begin, you know, I'd like to ask you if we might give your listeners information on where they might get the book.
	Of course.
	Great.
	The information is so important and, you know, I think we'd like to get the documents into the people's hands.
	Yes, yes, of course.
	There is a toll-free number that people can call to get the book.
	It's 1-800-336-9266.
	It's 1-800-336-9266.
	That's 1-800-336-9266.
	The book is $29.95, and for people who can't afford that, they can go to their local libraries and ask the libraries to bring it in.
	Also, the bookstores have it on their bookstore computers right now, so it could be ordered.
	There's going to be a little back order.
	The book has been really selling like hot cake.
	I know it has.
	It's a big book, too.
	563 pages hardback.
	Right.
	And, you know, we produce it.
	It's a beautiful kind of library quality book.
	It absolutely is, yes.
	And then, for lots of free information, I noticed that you talked about your website, and I'm going to have to link to your website, and I hope you'll link to ours.
	We have a fabulous website that exists.
	It's called tetrahedron.org, and we link to all the people who are making a difference in this field Taking political action, looking at issues like AIDS, chronic fatigue, immune dysfunction syndromes, and you know, there's lots of free downloadable information, including how to boost your immune system naturally.
	Information given to us by Joan Priestley, who's been a physician who's been treating very successfully over 600 HIV, AIDS, chronic fatigue patients.
	All right, doctor, we've got, as you mentioned, we do have a very large website up.
	Uh, with just millions of hits, and so we'd be glad to do it.
	It's www.http://www.tetrahedron.org.
	Is that correct?
	That's correct.
	All right, my webmaster is out there, and I'm sure he'll take care of that, and we'll get it up here in minutes.
	Thank you.
	Appreciate it, all right.
	Um, you bet.
	Now, um, I asked you what would happen if Ebola became airborne and got loose in a city, and you told me.
	I guess AIDS is a It's constantly changing on its own, isn't it?
	That's correct.
	It mutates about 5%, a little bit more than 5%, when it jumps from one person to another.
	Every time it jumps?
	That's correct.
	Now that's interesting, Steve, because most people don't know that that alone is an indication that this is a new virus.
	Because older viruses, they stabilize.
	They don't mutate so rapidly.
	I've got you.
	Um, if AIDS ever became airborne, what would the result be?
	Well, again, it's hard to predict that.
	There are, you know, there's the incubation periods, and then AIDS itself is, I mean, it's not, it's a blood-borne pathogen, so it's a difficult virus to go through the air.
	But like I said to you, if you cross the AIDS virus, With a influenza virus.
	Or like they did, and we have the documentation to prove, they crossed the leukemia, the human leukemia virus, with the influenza respiratory virus.
	In other words, you vector it.
	Exactly.
	You mutate it.
	That's what they did.
	That's exactly what they did.
	And here's the disinformation.
	They tell you that we did not have the, quote, molecular genetic technologies available to us to do this.
	We couldn't have made it, said Dr. Gallo to me recently on a telephone interview.
	He says we couldn't have done it because we didn't have the technology to do this until 1975.
	75, well then we do now.
	Well see, oh yes we certainly do now, but he's lying.
	The bottom line is all of his mentors had published, and he himself published doing it.
	They published it as possible.
	They did it even in biological weapons laboratories.
	fact the definitive text on biological weapons oxford university press contributed by david
	baltimore who's the grandfather to the national academy of sciences national research council
	which if you read the strecker material yes that document literally says that it was the national
	academy of sciences national research council informed the department of defense that they
	could do this work for two million dollars a year for five years they could develop immune
	system ravaging viruses for germ warfare and that and that document not only shows that they were
	doing it before 75 but also the textbook published by oxford university press says the same thing
	they were doing it between 1965 and 1975 very crudely and it's like you know they're saying
	that alexander graham bell did not need fiber optics to make his first telephone call
	That's true.
	They didn't need molecular genetic engineering capabilities to produce AIDS-like viruses.
	Well, there might be a skeptic about what you're saying, but I'm not one of them because our government just got finished admitting how it gave children and people who were ill plutonium to see what it would do.
	Any government that would do that Certainly would not stop at producing a virus capable of depressing or even killing the immune system.
	Right.
	No question about it.
	And look what they did on your news report about how they've been covering up the flight crashes.
	Mm-hmm.
	No question about it.
	They would do, and I'm sure they... Whatever can be done, you know, in some lab somewhere, they're doing it.
	Right.
	It's as simple as that.
	They're doing it.
	Whatever we acquire the technical ability to do, we seem to do.
	So...
	I had, not long ago, Dr. Joyce Riley.
	I bet you know who she is.
	Good friend of mine.
	You're a wonderful lady.
	Yes, I had her on the program and she talked about the Gulf War so-called syndrome.
	Cover up there too.
	Major leak.
	Yeah.
	She, as a matter of fact, it winds into what you're talking about because she said the symptoms are so damn non-specific.
	That's very true.
	lead one to believe that it is some sort of biological immune suppressor, maybe not AIDS,
	but something very much like AIDS. And she said that not only are the Gulf War vets catching
	it, but their families, even their friends, are beginning to get this, whatever it is.
	That's very true. What is it? Well, if you read Dr. Nicholson's work, and I believe Nicholson
	is the most advanced researcher in the field of Gulf War syndrome, and he's been now removed,
	politically removed from MD Anderson Cancer Research Center.
	We just placed on our website his new address in our FTP, downloadable public access files, his new address in Southern California.
	But he had come out in the American Journal of Occupational Medicine and Toxicology, published findings in Some 55% of Gulf War Syndrome veterans, a mycoplasma, which is a typical respiratory virus, a lot of people get it, causes pneumonia, but it's not such a hard to treat problem.
	uh... typically but he found a unique strain of it that has the capacity to
	bury itself deep in the cells
	and he found it in fifty five percent of the gulf war syndrome vets
	and he found out in addition to that thirty percent of those
	mycoplasmas had a unique
	gene attached to it
	spliced to it Oh?
	It was the HIV-1 envelope gene.
	The AIDS virus envelope gene.
	Spliced?
	Allows it to go deep into the cells.
	Spliced to it?
	Well, yes.
	That's exactly what he and his wife Nancy are talking about.
	Is there, doctor, is there any way that could have occurred naturally?
	No.
	That's their point.
	Their point is the only place this could have happened was in a lab.
	So, um, you contend this too, then, is engineered.
	Well, exactly.
	And again, it could have happened through contaminated vaccines.
	Now, this is fascinating because the week after, it was on a Friday.
	You ever notice how the media, when the government has to release a story... Always comes out at the end of the day on Friday.
	You got it.
	Sure.
	Have you noticed that?
	Absolutely.
	It's incredible.
	At any rate, that's when they released Nicholson and my co-author, the fellow who wrote the foreword to my book Emerging Viruses, AIDS, and Ebola is W. John Martin.
	He's one of the world's leading vaccine contamination analysts who worked As the FDA's Bureau of Biologics Director between 1976 and 1980 in charge of testing human vaccines for viral contaminations and those two folks had spent weeks going to traveling at their own expense to Washington to testify in front of the Gulf War investigators and they finally released that information on a Friday afternoon saying that most plausibly what gave rise to Gulf War syndrome was contaminated vaccines
	A new 17 component vaccine that a company in South Texas had produced and was given to virtually all of the military personnel and that that was the only thing that could explain why some people who went over there did not get it even though they were exposed to the chemical waste dumps.
	And some of the people who didn't go over there got Gulf War Syndrome because what this vaccine contamination did in some of the vaccine lots which were contaminated, it caused immune suppression.
	In the individuals that got the contaminations.
	Which then, when these people took multiple drugs and interacted badly with their system, more they then got exposed to the chemical waste explosion, fallout, and they developed the chemical sensitivities, the multiple chemical sensitivities.
	So, they came out with this information, it came out on Friday.
	Now what happened the following Monday was horrifying.
	All of a sudden the Pentagon announces a reversal Of tradition and what they had already decided, they were going to now administer to 1.5 million military personnel a new anthrax vaccine to protect all the military personnel against anthrax attacks.
	I recall that, yes.
	Now, I found that extremely horrifying based on the massive amount of evidence.
	I mean, we haven't even gotten into the social political background yet.
	And I talk about this, I mean, we haven't even launched into the most horrifying aspects of my book, Emerging Viruses, AIDS and Ebola.
	We haven't even talked yet about the fact that today's vaccines that we're giving our children, by law, we're required to give our children, are littered with monkey virus contaminants, as well as other animal viruses.
	We haven't even begun to talk about the population control agenda.
	We haven't begun to talk about the fact that the same people who have been promoting population control are the same people who have been behind the development of AIDS-like and Ebola-like viruses, as well as the contaminated blood, as well as the contaminated vaccines.
	All right, well, let's talk a little bit about the vaccines.
	That's horrible.
	You're saying that our children's vaccines are contaminated with monkey viruses?
	Yes.
	And, you know, praise the Lord.
	This past week, if your listeners simply go out, if they don't believe me, that's fine, just go out to your newsstand right now and get Money Magazine, December 96 issue, if they're not already sold out.
	Because that has the first good article exposing the scam.
	To this very day, the FDA has to turn a blind eye to as many as 100 simian monkey viruses.
	Per dose of the oral polio vaccine that we are by law required to give our children.
	How does it get in there?
	Because the vaccine is manufactured as it was in the 50s in monkey kidney tissues that are fully contaminated with simian virus 40, simian cytomegaloviruses, herpesviruses, epstein-barr viruses, all in the monkeys.
	Good Lord, and we're injecting this into our children?
	Yes, indeed.
	And what's worse than that is that the FDA and the authorities have known this.
	And they've known since the 60s that this was a potential cancer risk.
	So then, what do you do with your children?
	What do you tell the authorities?
	I mean, you're supposed to have your children vaccinated by law, aren't you?
	Right.
	Now, as a public health professional, I can no longer in good conscience recommend people get vaccinated with any live viral vaccine until there is a thorough, independent, congressional investigation into all of the documented published facts.
	Alright, those are the children.
	Let me ask you about when you become an adult and you get older, or the very young, both of those are generally recommended every year to get flu shots.
	Right.
	To avoid this latest strain or that latest strain of the flu.
	What about those shots?
	My mother died of the swine flu vaccine.
	She was one of tens of thousands of people Who developed what was called Guillain-Barré Syndrome, which is a common vaccine problem.
	Again, Money Magazine covers that fact also.
	It's a progressive neurological, immunological and neurological thing.
	What happens is that your own white blood cells can no longer distinguish the difference between your own nerve sheath, the myelin nerve sheath, and something foreign.
	So, your own white blood cells start to eat away at your own nerves.
	And that's what my mother developed.
	She developed some paralysis.
	She could barely walk.
	Lots of fatigue.
	And then what happened is shortly thereafter, she developed cancer and died.
	Now last night in my seminar here in California, I had a woman who said, that's exactly what happened to my mother.
	So the swine flu vaccines or the flu vaccines.
	I mean, I don't want to jump ahead.
	I mean, we probably, before we answer this question, look into it deeper.
	I think we need to prepare your listeners.
	We're going into an in-depth, more in-depth view as to who these people are that are doing this and what their driving motives are.
	All right.
	All right.
	Why don't we do exactly that then?
	Who are these people and why are they doing it?
	Okay.
	You remember the Stryker document again, going back to that 1970 Department of Defense appropriations request for $10 million?
	Yes.
	That was Henry Kissinger's order to Melvin Laird.
	How do you like that?
	I don't like it.
	And so I presume, and I'm going to probably jump ahead when I do this, but I presume you're going to say the reason this is basically being done is population control?
	Okay, now let's go into it.
	Alright.
	When Kissinger took over as NSC advisor under Richard Nixon in 1968, he almost immediately ordered Laird to do a reassessment of America's biological weapons capabilities.
	The reassessment came in, and he selected the option for developing these things.
	If you look at the history, how Kissinger got to that position to become the world's nuclear weapons guru, and of course these viruses he was looking for as alternatives to nuclear weapons.
	How did he get to that position?
	Well, I trace that in the book.
	The bottom line is that it was during his stint at the Council on Foreign Relations that Nelson Rockefeller made Kissinger the director of the Council on Foreign Relations Nuclear Weapons Study Group.
	And Kissinger's Uh, Intelligence Association goes back to World War II.
	His family left Germany three months before Kristallnacht.
	He goes back six years later as General Bollings, Chief German Translator.
	General Bollings was Joint Intelligence Commission Director and Director or Godfather to what was called Project Paperclip.
	The exfiltration of approximately 2,000 Nazis out of Pre-war, pre-post-war, and post-war Nazi Germany, under the CIA, first it was the OSS, then became a cover organization for what was called the German intelligence Galenorg, the CIA was founded, and that many of these Nazis were brought into the United States under Project Paperclip, paid $65,000 a year, plus benefits in 1948, to serve American military and industrial interests, rather than go to the Soviets.
	Now, it was Kissinger who was the intelligence's chief Nazi hunting director.
	He was the trainer of the American intelligence assets at the European Command School over Abigail.
	And he trained the Nazi hunters to seek out and find Nazis, not for war crime trials, but for service to American intelligence and American industry.
	Among the people that they brought over was Eric Traub, Hitler's top biological weapons developer.
	Great.
	Just our kind of guy, I guess, huh?
	Yep.
	And we'll take it from there when we get back.
	All right, fine.
	Stay right there.
	Dr. Len Horowitz, Emerging Viruses, AIDS, and Ebola, his latest book.
	And again, we will instruct you on how to get it.
	I do want to notify you already, we have a link to his site.
	So if you want to go up to our worldwide website, there is a link there to Dr. Horowitz's site.
	If you can handle the information, it's available through www.artbell.com.
	We'll be right back.
	Alright, let's try an interesting approach.
	Doctor, how important is population control?
	Well, population control is actually being debated as whether that is a major issue.
	It depends on who you speak with.
	if you speak to Henry Kissinger, George Bush, Nelson Rockefeller, all the presidents
	since virtually George Bush was in 1968 for the Congress heralding the need
	for drastic reductions in their third world populations, you find all the, you know,
	there's a tremendous amount of belief that we need to reduce the populations.
	Let me go back, with your permission, and talk about Kissinger's connection then to Eric Traub
	and bringing the Nazis over.
	Where we left it off was that Kissinger brought in Hitler's, well, you know, Project Paperclip brought in Eric Traub
	and his assistant.
	Now, this is the world's leading virologist.
	He is Hitler's top biological weapons developer.
	He is brought in by the CIA, given clearance, and goes to work for the Navy Biological Research
	Laboratory which becomes affiliated
	with the University of California, Berkeley, where Dr. Peter Duesberg currently and has been hailing
	from.
	Yes.
	Now, they initially set up one of the first major departments for biological weapons development programs in the United States.
	And additional people that Americans know very little about, very little facts are really promoted, But the fact is, Klaus Barbie, other people that were brought in under this project and harbored by the CIA and American intelligence were people like Klaus Barbie, the Butcher of Lyon, Joseph Mengele, the Angel of Death, and virtually all of the top Nazis and all the money that they held were brought out of the Rat Line, which was an underground railroad that went from Germany to Rome, Italy.
	And the money was laundered.
	Half of the Nazi war chest was laundered through the Chase Manhattan Bank, Paris Branch, Rockefeller's Bank, Paris Branch, which remained open throughout the German occupation of France.
	And the other half was laundered through the Vatican.
	And, with the help of two popes, many of the Nazis were given clearance and the money was laundered.
	Now, Kissinger's Rockefeller-Seat bar connection to population control goes even back further than that.
	you might be horrified to learn about what i'm about to tell you
	do you remember the racial hygiene laws that were very prominent in the 1920s in the united states
	in the south sure in other words your listeners probably can't remember this but in the 20s and
	early 30s in some states in the south you couldn't intermarry It was against the law, you'd be arrested.
	That's right.
	And it was based upon, what these laws were based upon, was Rockefeller-funded studies, scientific, allegedly scientific studies, that showed definitively that black people were genetically inferior to whites.
	Well, be that as it may, I believe in surveys of black people in America.
	They, by a fairly solid majority, believe Uh, that, uh, that AIDS and other diseases were specifically, and are being specifically, targeted at them.
	Yeah, I have no doubt that that's a, uh, a clear possibility, if not a high probability.
	And those laws you're suggesting were in place to ensure that it didn't get us.
	Is that right?
	Well, no.
	Here's where I'm going with this.
	You see, what I'm saying is that there was a population control agenda begun early in the 1920s, and here's where it went.
	It started virtually with the research funding with the Rockefellers.
	Hitler, when Hitler published Mein Kampf in 1932 and then started his rise to power in Germany, he cites in Mein Kampf He says, I'm not suggesting anything extraordinary.
	In fact, we know that the Jews are genetically inferior to other white people.
	Blacks are obviously genetically inferior because of the research that is ongoing now in the United States showing that this is the case.
	So he was looking for international support for his, quote, racial hygiene agenda, and he got it.
	He was supported virtually by every country throughout the world.
	And he was even funded by even some Jewish bankers, Warburgs, other people.
	I mean, it wasn't simply Jews that supported him, but he was supported by virtually everyone in the world
	because he embraced the Rockefeller's research.
	Now, that led to all of the studies being done in the concentration camps.
	They're horrible studies where they jab people's eyes with needles to extract eye color samples
	and then genetically determine, you know, what genes were related to these things.
	They did incredibly horrible studies there.
	And that these, interestingly enough, Rockefeller's partner, where much of this research was being funded also, Rockefeller's partner was, of course, Rockefeller owned Standard Oil.
	And their partner was IG Farben, which was the company that used the slaves, slave labor out of the, you know, took the Holocaust victims and used them as slave labor, and they held the patent on the gas that killed them.
	That's Rockefeller's partner.
	At any rate, they then continued that research in genetics, and it just was, it was just completed.
	In what was called the Human Genome Project at Cold Springs Harbor.
	And you've been reading about it in the newspapers now.
	Yes.
	They have literally determined every gene sequence in a human being.
	They've mapped it all out.
	They know every amino acid sequence, every DNA sequence, and every disease predisposition in every race of people.
	This is what started in the 20s, advanced in Hitler's regime, continued By Rockefeller funding and other funding at Cold Springs Harbor under the eugenics program and the Human Genome Project just completed.
	Now what you're reading in your newspapers every day is gene for Parkinson's disease discovered.
	Absolutely.
	Gene for women's breast cancer in Jewish women discovered.
	Absolutely.
	Gene for black predisposition for Ebola infection discovered.
	Genes for sickle cell anemia in black men, discovered.
	Genes for sarcoma in Jewish men of European descent, discovered.
	This is what we are now reading every single day in our newspapers.
	Alright, that's true.
	How much research is being done into not just discovery of these genes and the unraveling of the human genome, but into manipulation of them?
	I guess with regards to AIDS research, they have begun And other research.
	They have begun actual experimentation now.
	Open experimentation.
	Have they not into trying to cure diseases with that information?
	That's exactly where I was going.
	Thank you.
	As a matter of fact, yesterday, the day before yesterday, you saw in the newspaper, they actually came out in the newspapers and said AIDS virus is currently being used for gene therapy.
	In other words, they're now going to be using the AIDS virus... Yes, to vector in other things.
	Exactly.
	Now, so that's what Dr. Gallo says.
	He says, since 1975, they've had the ability to produce designer viruses that can trigger those specific disease predispositions.
	Now, let's go one more step.
	The fact is that last year, a year ago, Troy, we talked about Kissinger's association with Rockefeller with the Council of Foreign Relations, and it's incredible.
	The vast majority of Americans are so blind.
	They have no clue that the Council of Foreign Relations is not a government agency.
	No it isn't. It is a group of the most wealthy industrialists that determine international policy, economic policy and
	other policies.
	Yes, but you are arguing a very dark motivation here.
	You're saying that they are literally designing diseases, and I know where you're going, to limit population or even more horrifically to conduct genocide on certain ethnic That is the alarm that I sound in emerging viruses, AIDS and Ebola.
	And I lay out all of this mass amount of historic evidence that would suggest that this is a highly plausible theory that should be considered immediately.
	Unless, or else, we may just end up dead.
	How much possibility is there that one of these things that either develops, emerges, or is let loose, any of the above, will get us?
	And when I say get us, I mean go racing around and kill millions, even billions of people.
	Art, it is getting us.
	We are dying.
	As I go around the country and do my seminars, I ask for a raise of hands on how many people know people who have died of leukemia, specific types of leukemia that weren't even present, you know, that didn't even exist until the 1970s, 80s.
	I show you graphs of how the specific cancers and what cancers have been going off the roof.
	Prostate cancer.
	Breast cancer.
	Yes, may I ask you about that?
	I heard a statistic that still blows my mind to this day.
	It was released, I don't know, as much as a year ago, in a recent study They said that men, that cancer for men, not related to smoking, very important line, since World War II has increased by 300%.
	You got it.
	How can that be?
	Well, most of that increase has been since 1970s.
	In 1970s it started to rise, 1980s it started to go way up, and then in 90s it's skyrocketing.
	Do you know why that's happening most plausibly?
	No, I don't.
	Because we've not just had AIDS outbreaks or Ebola outbreaks.
	We've had virtually every cancer virus outbreak from these lunatic laboratories.
	They were working specifically with prostate cancer viruses, with breast cancer viruses, with leukemia, lymphoma, cancer viruses.
	These were the specific viruses that they worked with.
	In fact, most of their... See, these are some of the smoking guns.
	Do you know that the specific cancer complex that they researched, they spent most of their money and time researching during the 1960s under this highly funded, largely secret, special virus cancer program, was specifically the leukemia, lymphoma, sarcoma, immune dysfunction cancer complex that never existed in human beings before 1978 with the onset of the first AIDS cases?
	That is precisely what the viruses that they were developing to produce.
	Doctor, I could imagine that some of these things they were working on got out in various ways that were not intentional.
	Can you imagine that?
	I say that that is extremely plausible, and most scientists, including Dr. Robert Gallo himself, have said that that is extremely plausible.
	And then we're spread through various means, blood-borne means and otherwise, just the way everything else spreads.
	Right.
	And now we have 1 out of every 3 people dying of cancer, where it used to be 1 out of 20.
	President Clinton recently announced that all children shall be vaccinated by the year 2000.
	And that's a little worrisome in view of what you're saying.
	And you agree that it is worrisome?
	I'm horrified.
	I'm absolutely horrified.
	You have to be a fool not to open your eyes.
	You know, I'm offering people, your show here tonight, I acknowledge you for hosting it, is providing people with a flashlight to go through a very, very dark night.
	You can, as a listener, you can take this information and throw it out and not think anything of it and, you know, you're welcome to walk into the darkness alone.
	Or you can open your eyes to the facts.
	See, the whole population control agenda has been furthered by the Rockefeller Military-Medical-Industrial Complex, and that's the vaccines!
	See, that 1974 experimental vaccine that I told you about earlier most plausibly brought AIDS to the world?
	Yes.
	That was produced by Merck Sharpened Dome Laboratories, in cooperation with the Food and Drug Administration,
	the Centers for Disease Control, and the National Institute for Allergies and Infectious
	Diseases.
	These are the same people that are promoting massive inoculation programs.
	They have known, we have documented facts, obtained through some of it through the Freedom of
	Information Act, that they knew that these vaccines were contaminated,
	and they still know that these vaccines are contaminated.
	So you have to begin to wonder, what is the agenda?
	It's only, it's either money?
	Well, you know, um, the inclination of the skeptics would be to say, oh, come on, um, conspiracy, conspiracy everywhere here, they knew they were contaminated, I just can't buy into that, but the fact of the matter is, we now know, That a lot of blood was contaminated.
	And in various parts of the world, they were very well aware that blood was contaminated with AIDS, and they continued to produce the anti-clotting agent with massive amounts of blood they knew was contaminated, and spread AIDS like crazy.
	Now, who was associated with the decision to spread that blood?
	You tell me.
	How about Lawrence Rockefeller?
	You see, Lawrence Rockefeller was the director of the New York City Blood Council.
	That was the council of doctors that put together the New York City Blood Bank.
	Those were the international blood bankers.
	Those were the people that decided to send out the 10,000 hemophiliacs and countless others throughout the world that contaminated blood.
	What you've got to do is prove at what level that knowledge reached and where the decision was made to continue to distribute.
	Well, you know what you should do?
	Go out, if you're in New York, you can go out to your newsstands right now and you can get the New York Magazine, the title of which, the cover, is Bad Blood and goes into how, still to this very day, New Yorkers are being contaminated, like, What can you tell me about Hepatitis C?
	as well as they're shipping it overseas as well, and that the vice president is still associated with that,
	or the vice president of Chase Manhattan Bank is still virtually running that organization.
	That's in this week's New York Magazine.
	What can you tell me about hepatitis C?
	I have an acquaintance who just found out that she has hepatitis C,
	and has apparently quite a bit of damage to her liver.
	And she believes that she acquired it around 1970 before they, I guess, really had a good test for it.
	And it's spreading like crazy too, isn't it?
	Yes.
	All the hepatitis viruses are coming about again.
	Here's the story.
	History of hepatitis in the United States.
	Hepatitis virus research.
	And this relates to the AIDS issue tremendously.
	And I'll tell you how the vaccine that most plausibly brought AIDS to the world got contaminated.
	Okay.
	Saul Krugman, from New York University Medical Center, another documented biological weapons contracting firm, in 1965 started to study what was called the Australian Antigen, that was the Hepatitis B virus.
	He used it to study population, Willowbrook State School, mentally retarded children.
	He inoculated hundreds of children, many of them died with what he thought was a cancer virus, Hepatitis B.
	And so, many of them developed hepatitis, died.
	And then, by 1970, he was advanced in his research.
	He felt he was close to developing a vaccine.
	He then handed the research over to Merck Sharp and Dome, a fellow by the name of Maurice Hilleman, who was a world-leading vaccine developer for the military, as well as the largest pharmaceutical company in the world, Merck.
	Now, they worked, as I said, with the FDA, the Centers for Disease Control, and National Institute for Allergies and Infectious Diseases to develop Four subtypes of an experimental hepatitis B vaccine that was used in different parts of the world.
	And what they did is they pulled the viruses out of the children.
	They tried to grow it in the children.
	They couldn't grow enough in the children, they reported.
	They then tried to grow the viruses on cultures.
	They couldn't grow it in the cultures.
	They ended up saying that they had to grow it poor it because they needed massive amounts of virus. They
	ended up growing it in contaminated monkeys. Oh my god. Chimpanzees supplied by Lytton Bionetics
	Research Laboratories whose labs maintained numerous AIDS-like and Ebola-like viruses
	in a laundry list of viruses I reprint in emerging viruses, AIDS and Ebola.
	You are horrified.
	You see everything like airborne leukemia viruses and all sorts of other mixes.
	So they then grow these viruses in the chimps, and of course any AIDS researcher will tell you the closest thing going to the human AIDS virus, HIV-1, is the simian immunodeficiency virus from the chimpanzee.
	They then extract these live hepatitis B viruses grown in contaminated monkeys.
	And of course, when they extract it, they extract all of the live viruses that that monkey contains, such as the herpes viruses, the Epstein-Barr viruses, the cytomegaloviruses, the herpes B viruses.
	Of course, all of these are associated with chronic fatigue.
	Sure.
	And then they inoculate these viruses into the Willowbrook children again, the gay men in New York City, the blacks in Central Africa, and then they use those people's serum to make the vaccines.
	Well, I don't know.
	Have we lost our minds?
	Has it gone too far?
	I know you're out there like a stranger fighting in the wilderness.
	Has it gone too far?
	Uh, it's, it's beyond, it's a done deal.
	I mean, uh, this thing is... It's a done deal?
	It's a done deal.
	Alright, Doctor, I'm going to hold you over for one more hour.
	I want to take some, uh, calls from listeners.
	Are you up for that?
	Yeah, for sure.
	Alright.
	Can we get people the 800 number again while I'm nowhere?
	We will do that when we come back, alright?
	That's great, thanks.
	Stay right there.
	A done deal, huh, folks?
	We'll be right back.
	Really close is true.
	I've seen him blue.
	For me and you.
	And I think to myself.
	What a wonderful world.
	Alright, my guest again, Dr. Len Horowitz, and we will in a moment...
	In fact, let us do that now, before I read this fax.
	I've got a fax for the good doctor, but first, doctor, your new book, Emerging Viruses, AIDS, and Ebola, it is a big book.
	How do they get it?
	Well, people can get it through a toll-free number by calling 1-800-336-9266.
	That's 1-800-336-9266.
	I think it is a good thing that you are not a fan of the book. I think it is a good thing.
	I think it is a good thing that you are not a fan of the book. I think it is a good thing
	that you are not a fan of the book. I think it is a good thing that you are not a fan
	of the book. I think it is a good thing that you are not a fan of the book. I think it
	is a good thing that you are not a fan of the book. I think it is a good thing that
	you are not a fan of the book. I think it is a good thing that you are not a fan of
	the book. I think it is a good thing that you are not And then also, for your folks on the web, they'll get a 20% discount if they connect from your website to ours in order to book over the website via email.
	Alright, good.
	That's www.artbell.com.
	Let me read you a fax from a former research immunologist.
	It says, Doctor, the main reason I left laboratory and clinical research Is the possibility of contracting a disease, not just AIDS or hepatitis, but an odd autoimmune disease.
	After 15 years in the lab, it was alarming how many of my associates were contracting autoimmune diseases.
	Diseases that attack their nerves or the lining of their blood vessels, etc.
	Many researchers contracted, I believe it's microplasmic diseases from cell culturing.
	These diseases were being routinely explained as genetically linked.
	But it is quite clear to me that they are an occupational hazard.
	Too many viruses, virokines, microplastic infections floating around in the air and environment, in a laboratory and in the clinical setting.
	I walked away and became a medical writer.
	I don't believe these diseases are genetically linked at all, but rather manufactured.
	And by the way, I agree.
	Don't get a flu shot.
	They're processed too quickly with too many risk factors.
	Signed, Denise.
	Well, you just heard it from an expert, and that's exactly what we said.
	Uh, you know, that's exactly what I said.
	I know.
	You know, you heard it.
	I mean, I can't tell you the number of researchers that I find that have left labs like Denise.
	They're a pound.
	I had another one in my seminar last night, a brilliant doctor, who said she just got fed up.
	She was working under Fort Detrick Biological Weapons Programs.
	Clark Nicholson had worked at Fort Detrick also.
	I mean, these people are not fools!
	Alright, doctor, we've got a lot of people who want to speak with you, so let's try and take a few calls.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Dr. Len Hurwitz.
	Hello.
	About two years ago, there was a book that said that Blacks and Latinos and Indians were inferior to whites and Asians.
	And I have the feeling that that kind of research in a new society could be used to turn people of color into serfs.
	What's your idea of that?
	Sir, are you referring to the study, I think... The Bell Curve?
	The Bell Curve, yeah.
	Alright, that's what he's talking about.
	Yeah, I see that.
	I conclude that that's part of a mass propaganda campaign.
	That is very clear if you look at it.
	It started, I mean it was starting already before the bell curve.
	Remember the Rodney King beatings?
	Those people in L.A.
	would never have ridden had they not seen that thousands and thousands of times.
	Uh, over and over again in the television.
	You have it today with the O.J.
	Simpson case.
	It says, never in the history has American racial relations been so bad.
	You have, all of this is being drummed up by the media.
	The bell curve is another fraudulent type of program, you know, document.
	Uh, can I ask you who funded that research for that study?
	That's a good question.
	I mean, all right, we're going to talk about the hot zone, and we're going to talk about that, and it's probably... I haven't researched the bell curve, but that's a good point.
	I should, because when you come back down to who funded the hot zone, it's the population-controlling people, it's the Rockefellers, it's the Sloan Foundation, which... Now, let's talk about this for a second.
	Is that okay, Art?
	Well, yes.
	I want to get as many calls as I can in.
	Okay, real quick then.
	The Hot Zone.
	Richard Preston's book that alleged that these viruses are coming out of bat guano at the bottom of Kittum Cave and we're infringing in the tropical rainforest and these bugs are just jumping up at us.
	Well, it's garbage.
	It was funded by the Sloan Foundation, which funded MIT studies.
	For $200,000 a year during the 1960s under the, quote, neurosciences umbrella for, quote, public management, mass persuasion, technologies, research, brainwashing.
	That's who funded that book, The Hot Zone, and the purpose was to let people know that these viruses are going to be coming.
	Now, Kittum Cave is a metaphor for Lytton Bionetics Research Laboratories in Northwest Uganda.
	The Sloan Foundation worked intimately with the Rockefeller Foundation to fund population control studies.
	Now, the other night, another example of how subtle this disinformation is, and the black-white racial violent agenda is, that not only are the Muslims being blamed for bringing in Ebola viruses and releasing them in the United States, but in that movie we talked about Pandora's Clock, you had A white pirate and a black co-pirate, and if the two had guns or knives, they would have killed each other.
	Again, all of these themes are very, very subtle.
	What did you have last week?
	Texaco.
	Not letting black people into bathrooms.
	Why do you think these are constantly coming out?
	It's because there is an agenda.
	The media is largely controlled.
	Is it controlled, or is it just a sort of a A herd instinct type thing.
	In other words, I think a lot of the media has become lazy and they just rip and read these days and they are reading what is being given to them.
	That's exactly right.
	See, the government... I wrote an article about this a couple years ago.
	The government has 10,500 and some odd people every day inundating the mass media with press releases.
	Taxpayer funded press releases that literally tell the herd, the sheep, Which way to go?
	Now, it's incredible the level of denial and indifference you can create by mass public persuasion programs, mass media.
	It's true.
	And, you know, it's like the Jews walked into those Nazi concentration camps, literally after years of being tortured, believing that they were going to take delousing showers.
	I mean, I believe that today's, I mean based on the evidence, today's public health departments, physicians offices, are the gas chambers.
	And the vaccines are very plausibly the gas, delivering the deadly toxins.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Len Horowitz.
	Hello.
	Yes, this is Frank in New Orleans, listening on WSMB.
	Yes, hi.
	Dr. Horowitz said that And in his book about the blood diseases and hepatitis C,
	my sister had to have two liver transplants because of the disease.
	Hepatitis C?
	Of hepatitis C. And they traced it back to blood that she was given.
	Alright, Doctor, do you cover that in Emerging Viruses?
	Yeah, I go over all of the different viruses that were being developed and tested in all the labs in the Special Virus Cancer Program, and they were focusing the hepatitis research, as I mentioned, and I go over that in Northwest Uganda and New York City.
	That's where this was done and of course New York City is the hotbed of all this research because it's the home of the Rockefellers, it's the home of the New York City Blood Council.
	I mean it's interesting that the fellow, the French fellow who allowed 1800 HIV tainted blood samples to go out for 20 million
	dollars in France.
	He's doing time, but yet Lawrence Rockefeller and his boys at the New York City blood bank, you know,
	they don't even get an honorable mention on the 60 minutes episode the other day. It was the government,
	the, uh, you know, undefinable bureaucracy, the government that knew that the
	that the blood was painted that allowed 10,000 hemophiliacs to get this virus. I mean, I
	cannot believe that people are not out in front of Chase Manhattan Bank in New York
	burning Rockefeller in effigy.
	You're really absolutely convinced that he is actively involved in doing this? Are you
	convinced of that? I mean, is there absolute evidence of it?
	Yeah, I mean, it's like, it's documented facts, Art.
	Well then, why aren't you in front of Congress?
	Well, maybe with your help I'll get there.
	That's my goal.
	Alright, first time caller on the line, you're on the air with Dr. Len Horowitz.
	Hello.
	Uh, Mr. Bale?
	Yes.
	Okay, um, I'm out of Jackson, Tennessee.
	Yes, sir.
	Um, what I'm talking about here is I'm, uh, these, uh, some of these Some of these hair samples that they take from people when they have to get a job or something.
	Yes.
	These are sent off to a lab, and I'm sure they're genetically... excuse me, I'm a little nervous here.
	Genetically tested, yes.
	Ostensibly for drugs, but of course, once they get genetic information, they've got it all.
	What I thought was maybe they were trying to limit their liabilities, identifying certain genes that would, in their later years, the employees, they could get rid of before they become Well, it's a good question.
	Doctor, how far has it come?
	In other words, if you give somebody a hair sample, ostensibly for a drug test, they, as you pointed out, they've pretty much unraveled the human genome.
	Do you think they're using this information now, as so many people feared they would, to look carefully at somebody who might contract cancer at age 40, or have heart attack at age 38, or whatever?
	Um, it's probably close to that, if not there.
	Close to that, if not there.
	Uh, so if somebody were to ask you if you were going to get a job, Doctor, and they wanted a hair sample, would you provide it?
	Yeah, well, a blood sample, and this is why many of the, um, military personnel are very concerned about giving blood.
	You bet.
	I'm not certain that the hair, it's possible that they could probably test chemicals in the hair and probably get more information on chemical toxicity or substance abuse from hair samples, but I think if you really want information about the Human genome.
	You want to get some blood.
	You want blood.
	Well, I had heard that hair roots are a rich reservoir of DNA.
	Yeah, that's very plausible.
	And I don't doubt that what you're saying could be very, very possible.
	All right.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Len Horowitz.
	Welcome.
	Oh, hi.
	It's Bill from Youngstown, Ohio.
	Yes, sir.
	I have two questions.
	Oh, by the way, the Rockefellers owned plantations in South America that had slaves.
	Nobody wants to believe that.
	My two questions are, number one, Dr. Harwich, is Dr. Duisburg right when he says that somebody who is HIV positive and lives holistically can live forever and ever and ever?
	And secondly, is there enough information available that some attorneys could start some class action lawsuits for HIV infected people?
	Well, that's a good question.
	If the information is really solid, you would think that it would hold up in court.
	What about it, Dr.?
	Yep, that's right.
	I was in New York meeting with attorneys last week, and that's what's being currently considered.
	Really?
	Yep.
	Now, with respect to this first question, you really already answered that.
	You believe that somebody infected with HIV can, essentially, if they live correctly, live a normal life span?
	Yes.
	And again, go on the website and you can see Joyce Riley is under, in the Research News and Views, there's a public access FTP file.
	It's called RX, Prescription for Immune Dysfunction and Immune Suppression.
	You can download three pages for free of information to boost your immune system and maintain a healthy life even though you're HIV positive.
	Very, very plausible.
	Alright, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Lynn Hurwitz.
	Hello, where are you please?
	Okay, I'm going to first ask you to turn your radio off.
	Yes, I just did.
	That's good.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Oklahoma listening to a Kansas station.
	All right.
	What I'm wondering about, I've called before.
	I have lupus, and I'm very interested in what the doctor's been saying.
	I started having symptoms after I had a baby at 40.
	They came in and asked me if I'd had three-day measles, and they gave me a shot.
	Of, um, oh, rubella, I can't remember the name, I'm nervous too.
	Anyway, but, uh, since then, I came down with this horrible disease, the worst, one of the worst kinds.
	And it's very interesting to me that the things that he, he, he's saying are so true because I have literature here that I can quote about lupus.
	Alright, well, let's ask the doctor.
	Doctor, what is lupus?
	Well, I think the listener is definitely on the right track.
	I think that the situation is she may have been contaminated during a vaccine.
	And like John Martin, Says that all of the live viral vaccines are suspect.
	The condition that she's specifically suffering with, I'm not tremendously familiar with lupus.
	I know that neurological disease, I know it to be a neurological disease, but I don't know a lot about it.
	I know that Martin talks about a host of neurological diseases being associated with vaccine contamination.
	I know that, for example, he talks about even attention deficit disorders and hyperactivity disorders in our children.
	Oh yes.
	And he talks about, he published last year finding, this was published in the Journal of Virology, finding semi-African green monkey gene sequences in a patient suffering from encephalopathy, in a child suffering from encephalopathy.
	And we also look back at the polio vaccines and compare What used to be called polio in many cases now is called meningitis and when I do my seminars it's extraordinary how many people have had meningitis.
	People knew others of people that have had meningitis and this was relatively new only since they're like the 60s after the polio vaccines were administered.
	So again I I think your caller is extremely on the right track.
	It's a horrifying reality.
	As I said, my mother died of this.
	I have a sister-in-law who was a beautiful woman, but she developed Chronic rheumatoid arthritis following a hepatitis B inoculation just some four years ago And this was she can barely hold a baby right now.
	Let me quickly ask you you've written a book about emerging diseases What do you expect in the next several years to be emerging?
	What should we look forward to what's coming?
	I think what's coming right now is Ebola, because they're telling us that this is coming, and we're hearing that time and time again.
	Ebola-like viruses and perhaps other plagues, biological weapons that are going to be released.
	They have a tremendous autonomy of viruses that they could release.
	And so I don't, you know, it's hard for me to say what specifically, but, you know, it could be Ebola.
	It could be anthrax.
	It could be bubonic plague.
	It could be cholera.
	In other words, there's a good wide choice of things out there.
	All right, doctor.
	Hold on.
	We'll get back to you in a moment.
	Bottom of the hour.
	Dr. Len Horowitz is my guest.
	It's all about emerging viruses, AIDS, Ebola.
	Take your choice.
	There's more.
	When it's all right and it's coming home, we gotta get right back to where we started from.
	Love is good, love is good, we are here right next to where we started from.
	Joyce Riley, Dr. Leonard Horowitz, who I've got on the air right now, emerging viruses, AIDS and Ebola and much more.
	Bye.
	They both, uh, sort of sing a similar thread, don't they?
	And I've got a fax from Karen in Sedona, Arizona, says, Tonight shows bringing out the same feelings in me that I felt during the interview with Joyce Riley.
	Tears, sorrow, disgust, anger, betrayal of and by humanity.
	And I must say that I joined Karen in Sedona, in that feeling, and there was a day when I would not have believed any of this.
	I must tell you, doctor, there was a day when the FBI was believable, when they would come forward and say something, it was like gold, you could take it to the bank.
	That day is long gone, and our government has done so many things to us, not for us, but to us, that all of what you say is believable.
	And it's sad.
	It's really sad.
	It's crying sad.
	You know, I appreciate that.
	That is the most mature... Now, I am a behavioral science expert.
	I'm not a virology expert.
	I don't even consider myself an AIDS expert.
	I can tell you that what you're experiencing, what your listener is experiencing, that sadness, is the most mature, adult, normal, human response, appropriate response, for this information.
	Um, the next step is you gotta get beyond that to political action.
	Sure.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Len Horowitz.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi, where are you?
	I am from K-A-R-V in Russellville, Arkansas.
	Russellville, Arkansas.
	Alright.
	And I agree 100% with everything the doctor's saying because I am a victim.
	I took the same shot his sister-in-law took and I now suffer from rheumatoid arthritis.
	And it just, it just kind of amazes you when you take An inoculation trying to prevent a disease and then you end up with a disease much worse.
	It's horrifying.
	Trying to prevent.
	So you took a shot to prevent?
	Hepatitis B. Hepatitis B shot for worse, yes.
	And ended up with rheumatoid arthritis.
	And so like I say, you take something because you think you're going to prevent getting something and end up with something much worse.
	Yep.
	In some ways.
	You know what I'm saying?
	Absolutely.
	You wonder if your risk warrant Just to go on and take it, may I ask you one question?
	Sure, go ahead.
	I know that I was told to sign a disclosure, not a disclosure, but to sign an affidavit when I took this shot.
	Right.
	Releasing them from all responsibility.
	Right.
	Does that include, like, what happened to me, having come down with another disease?
	Very likely.
	Very likely.
	See, that's their game, their business is that.
	That's what I thought.
	That's what their business is.
	Now, how long ago did you have that taken?
	When did the shot happen?
	The shot happened three years ago, but I have been suffering and been being treated for rheumatoid arthritis for two and a half years.
	Right.
	Yeah, that was about six months.
	You know, six to nine months after I had the shot that I come down with it.
	Yeah, in my sister-in-law's case, I think the liability exposure period ended in three years.
	I think you have to file a suit within three years.
	But that's part of their game.
	I mean, it's just a horrifying reality.
	Now get this, this is worse.
	Let me tell you, let me add to it.
	Alright, let me interrupt you.
	Before we leave this, because it relates.
	Doctor, this is by fax, please ask the doctor about the big push to have all emergency care providers inoculated for Hepatitis B beginning about four years ago.
	I was one who fell for it.
	Ask if he's ever heard of unspecific symptoms like muscle aches, degeneration, and so forth.
	Yes.
	As a matter of fact, Dr. Martin and Dr. Nicholson are specifically working in labs to develop diagnostic techniques for these complex infectious diseases where you have bizarre, a whole bizarre you know, series of problems, both immunological and
	neurological.
	You know, again, like lupus. It's a weird disease. Neurological components,
	immunological components, and this is the same thing as golf worship.
	They're telling you it's in people's heads.
	It's stress-related.
	Yes.
	You know, and then the physicians, when you go back, it's horrifying how brainwashed physicians are by the pharmaceutical companies.
	If you go back and you say, well, I'm suffering from, you know, a disease, it looks to me like it's associated with a vaccine.
	They say, you know, it's in your genes.
	Yes, indeed.
	That seems the ready explanation.
	You were about to say, even worse?
	Yeah.
	Now, here's, I have to share this with you because it's a horrifying reality.
	Now our children, the Clinton administration just this year has mandated hepatitis B vaccines for our infants.
	Now this is insane.
	First of all, Hepatitis B vaccine is... Hepatitis B is principally a blood-borne pathogen, a sexually transmitted disease, number one.
	Healthcare workers get it, and teachers get it because they're worried about blood-to-blood exposures when they're caring for people.
	But, now, the manufacturer tells you that every seven years, you have to get your blood rechecked.
	Also, 30% of the people who get vaccinated never develop any protection.
	So, does this mean now, at age 7, we have to, again, check for $175 our children's blood, they're still not sexually active.
	7 years later, check them again, try to get a teenager at age 14 to do anything.
	Okay?
	Now, that's not the worst.
	Here's the problem.
	You read the insert, package insert, and hepatitis B says that some 15 percent develop, 15 percent, every time you take the vaccine, 15 percent develop a little redness and swelling in the injection site.
	No big, no big deal.
	About 12, 13, 14 percent develop cold flu symptoms, lymphadenopathy, swelling of the lymph nodes.
	No big deal.
	I suppose we could live with that.
	10, 12 percent develop worse symptoms.
	8 to 10, more worse symptoms.
	5, 6, more severe symptoms.
	3, 4, very severe, potentially chronic illnesses, more symptoms.
	They say less than 1%.
	I'm telling you, I can't trust these people at all, knowing what they have done.
	I have to assume, as a healthcare professional, and as a public health authority, that you have to assume, when they say less than 1%, suffer from Drastic, life-threatening, chronic illnesses such as chronic rheumatoid arthritis, brain damage, mental retardation, and perhaps even death.
	I have to assume 1%.
	Now, how many children do we have in the United States?
	Well, I don't know.
	We're about 260 million total of that number.
	I don't know how many are children.
	Well, let's figure conservatively 20 to 30.
	I know there's about 50, but let's give these people the benefit of the doubt.
	Let's say there's 20 to 30 million children that are now going to get vaccinated with Hepatitis B.
	Now, that means that between 200,000 and 300,000 of our children over the next seven years are going to be developing severe chronic rheumatoid arthritis, debilitating chronic diseases, or death.
	Alright, and that's from their own figures?
	That's from their own figures.
	Now, how in the world do they justify that?
	It must be a risk assessment, but it's hard to imagine they could justify two or three hundred thousand children.
	See, this is the problem.
	You just hit the nail right on the head.
	They have never done definitive risk-benefit, cost-benefit analyses for any of these vaccines.
	And as a public health professional, as a student in every public health school in the world, you learn before you make health care policy legislation and you mandate things in health care.
	Wait a minute, how does it get past the scientists, the FDA people, those kinds of people?
	How does it get past that?
	Before this is approved for use within the population, how does it get through that without that kind of study?
	Lots of money on the inside.
	This is where I'm telling you, the Military Medical Industrial Complex, Rockefeller Slum, Okay.
	All right.
	Ease to the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Dr. Len Horowitz.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	I'm calling from St.
	Louis.
	Okay.
	You're going to have to speak up good and loud.
	You're a little hard to hear.
	I'm only 23 years old and I've been diagnosed with having the Epstein-Barr virus.
	Right.
	The only thing I can think in relation to that of how I could possibly have gotten it by listening to the show, I realized I'd been vaccinated against having hepatitis about three years ago when I had been working for the slugs here in St.
	Louis.
	Now, within the past month and a half of being diagnosed with this virus, um, the main factor being my lymph nodes swollen and having been tested for other things and coming up negative, within a month and a half, um, they have found the Epstein-Barr virus is now completely just vanished, gone, out of my system.
	Um, it's, I don't know basically how to explain it.
	Now they found that my red blood cells are larger than they're supposed to be, which is a sign of anemia, but I am not anemic.
	I have no idea what's going on, neither does the doctor.
	He's completely confused by all this.
	Are you suffering from fatigue?
	Yes, I have been.
	Sounds like part of a chronic fatigue picture, which is associated with Epstein-Barr virus, and yes indeed, again, I would think vaccine contamination, and I would think, I know, as I show you in the book Emerging Viruses, AIDS, and Ebola, that it was the Epstein-Barr virus and Burkitt's Lymphoma, And non-Hodgkin's lymphoma that they were studying specifically in Central Africa.
	That was one of the earliest things that they were studying and I'm clear that those things continue to break out of their labs.
	Right.
	I know I did some research on that as far as that goes.
	Do they have any information on whether Epstein-Barr virus is present, the actual virus present before someone is diagnosed with the lymphoma?
	Yes, that's what their theory was as early as the late 50s already.
	And I think that that has been the association that's written up in all the medical textbooks.
	Okay.
	All right, thank you very much.
	Have a good morning.
	Well, to the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Lynn Horowitz.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi, Dr. Horowitz.
	Hi.
	I have a couple of things to say.
	First of all, I'd like to find out how the little people of the country can do anything
	about this, if there's anything they can do.
	There's a lot you can do.
	I'll be happy to tell you what you can do.
	Okay.
	Okay, well first of all, you can connect to the website.
	It's right through Art's website, to our website.
	And then go to our resource links, and you will then be placed, connected to all the
	people and all the organizations who are making a difference in this field.
	And the field being chronic fatigue, AIDS, immunizations, immune dysfunction, and all
	Everyone from people who are doing political action to people who are doing clinical research and as well as patient care.
	Okay.
	I've been a nurse for 30 years and I've just been diagnosed with fibromyalgia in the last five years and I've been diabetic since I was 15.
	I have hypothyroidism, herpes, I think that's about it.
	That'll do it.
	That's enough for you.
	How in the world did you contract all of this?
	I don't know.
	Well, again, I highly suspect it was a vaccine contamination.
	Possibly.
	Alright, well, Doctor, I've been talking to a lot of people.
	In fact, this acquaintance of mine who's got Hepatitis C. Absolutely no idea how they contracted it.
	Absolutely no idea.
	Some blood transfusions many years ago.
	Other than that, and that blood was supposedly safe, no idea.
	I mean, people are contracting these strange diseases these days who have no idea how they got them.
	Well, I'm certain that you can thank the Rockefeller Foundation and Rockefeller University and the New York City Blood Bank and their affiliated pharmaceutical industry For all of these current and coming breaks.
	I mean that's the evidence is just so overwhelming you have to be a fool not to open your eyes to it.
	Well I would think this is also overwhelming that other than political action the only thing a person can do is to take individual action to protect themselves and their families.
	Right.
	Well, let's talk about that for a second.
	Yeah, let's.
	Because that's what people want to know about.
	Yeah.
	First of all, you do not have to have your children, in most states, vaccinated.
	You can say for spiritual or religious reasons, exempt out of it.
	Get your physician to write you a note.
	They have specific notes.
	Now, this goes into my situation in New York.
	We'll get into that maybe later.
	Well, doctor, how do you get a physician Who is going to say, look, are you out of your mind?
	You need these inoculations.
	I'm not going to write something that's going to get you out of this.
	How do you find a doctor?
	Well, most of the schools even have those forms that people have to sign.
	And most areas, there are physicians that you can find that will do that for you.
	My family physician did that for us.
	Will most physicians do it, or just some?
	Most will give you an argument, like you're saying.
	But I would say that these people need to read Emerging Viruses, AIDS, and Ebola.
	I mean, that's one of the most urgent reasons why people should read my book.
	Alright.
	Because they've got to, the physicians should read the book, the cell scientists should read the book, and the informed consumers should read this book just so that they know who they're dealing with and how they have been disinformed and what the current and coming risks are with regard to these vaccines.
	All right.
	Well, we are running out of time for this session.
	We'll have you back on the air again.
	The number to order your book is 1-800 3-3-6-9-2-6-6, correct?
	That's correct.
	All right.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Leonard Horowitz.
	Hi.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Dr. Horowitz.
	Good morning.
	I started to say I've enjoyed this show, but that's kind of... The wrong phrase.
	Yeah, the wrong phrase.
	I mean, it's been very enlightening, but some of the most horrifying, I guess, news that I've heard, as long as I can remember, Um, I was diagnosed in 1986 with Epstein-Barr virus.
	Um, I suffered for probably about six years with so many kinds of symptoms.
	I mean, it is too long to go into.
	Um, I was retested in 1994.
	Uh, still showed symptoms of chronic, uh, mononucleosis, Epstein-Barr.
	Um, and back in 86 when I was first diagnosed, I guess they didn't really know as much as they do now, but back before it was called chronic fatigue.
	Um, to my knowledge, I mean, I, I, you know, when I asked the doctor how I contracted this, he was like, you know, well, this germ is, or this virus is present in, uh, water.
	It's, it's everywhere.
	Um, you know, your immune system must have just been at a low and it hit you.
	It's garbage.
	Yeah.
	I didn't take any kind of hepatitis vaccinations.
	I really have no idea how I can correct this.
	All I can say is, you know, in the last ten years, I mean, it has wreaked havoc.
	I've lost two marriages, basically, because of the debilitating effects of the virus.
	I was unable to work for probably a seven or eight year period.
	It was... Did you take oral polio vaccine when you were young?
	Yes, I did, as a matter of fact.
	So did I, actually.
	Most of us did.
	Most of us are walking around with monkey virus genes in our bodies right now because of it.
	Read the Money Magazine article this month.
	December 96th issue of Money Magazine.
	You must get that.
	Okay.
	Bernice Eddie, she was the The Bureau of Biologics Director in charge of testing vaccines, the Salk and Sabin vaccines.
	And she inoculated a dozen monkeys with the Salk vaccine.
	They all killed over, paralyzed or dead.
	Then what happened was she took this information, she took pictures in the photographs, she took those to the director of the NIH.
	He confiscated the photographs, demoted and defunded her.
	10 years later, 1972, she went to Congress, and in front of Congress she says, if you continue to allow these vaccines to go out, in the next 20 years you will have epidemics unlike the world has ever seen.
	Epidemics of cancer, of all sorts of epidemics.
	And that's exactly what we have.
	Exactly.
	It is epidemic, isn't it?
	They're not about to cure cancer, are they?
	This was the other day when the American Cancer Society announced that they had turned the tide,
	now winning the war on cancer. That was such garbage.
	Actually, I've heard that since I've been alive, old enough to watch TV and watch the fundraisers.
	They've always said that.
	Yeah.
	Well, read Emerging Viruses.
	Read my book, Emerging Viruses, Agent Ebola.
	You'll see that the American Cancer Society... Again, this is kind of like a follow-up arm of the Sloan Foundation.
	The Sloan Foundation, which paid for disinformation and population control.
	They brought up chemotherapy.
	You know what their first chemotherapy was?
	Doctor?
	It was the nerve gas that they used in World War I.
	Well, that came sometime after they used to bleed people.
	Yeah.
	All right, Doctor, we're at the end of the session here, but we will have you back again.
	And I know that you're around the country.
	You're going to be where, signing books?
	On Friday, November, let's see, let's see.
	Very quickly.
	Monday, Deep River Bookstore in Santa Monica, California.
	All right.
	All right, doctor.
	It has been a distinct pleasure.
	Thank you.
	Pleasure?
	I don't know if that's the right word.
	It's been very informative, doctor.
	Well, thanks a lot.
	I appreciate your airing all this information.
	It's so urgent that we let people know.
	God bless.
	Thank you, my friend, Dr. Len Horowitz.
	We will be back.
	In fact, this is CBC.
	I'm Art Bell.
	It's a pleasure to be here.
	If you want to hear something a little bit different...
	Call Artbel toll free.
	West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	1-800-825-5033.
	This is the CBC Radio Network.
	It sure is.
	Good morning everybody, I'm Art Bell.
	618-8255. East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033. 1-800-825-5033.
	This is the CBC Radio Network.
	It sure is. Good morning everybody, I'm Art Bell. For those of you who would like a copy of the program with Dr.
	Leonard Hurwitz, who wrote Emerging Viruses, AIDS and Ebola.
	It is a three hour program, and I'm already getting a zillion questions about it.
	The way to order 24 hours a day, including now, is to call 1-800-917-4278.
	That's 1-800-917-4278.
	And that's the way to get a copy of the program.
	seven four two seven eight that's one eight hundred nine one seven four two
	seven eight and that's the way to get a copy of the program in a moment we're
	going to completely change gears here Yesterday morning, I got a call from a fellow named Rodney, somewhere in Arkansas.
	Rodney has, or claims to have, trapped a spirit.
	He's got it trapped, just like in Ghostbusters.
	Or kind of like in Ghostbusters, I guess.
	We'll ask about that.
	And he has trapped it, I think I recall him telling me, with modified bug zappers.
	Have you ever seen a bug zapper?
	Remember sometime you'd have those electrical bug zappers?
	And a bug would come by and... And it's gone, right?
	Somehow he's modified those, has caught a spirit and trapped it in a room, and I talked to him about an hour ago, as of an hour ago, he still had it trapped!
	So we're gonna talk to him and I'll read the facts he sent that got us into this here in a moment.
	In a moment it's off to Arkansas, but first I want to remind everybody out there, yesterday, Whitley Strieber called me just before the program and said, Art, you're not going to believe what I have.
	I'm going to send it to you.
	It's copyrighted, but you can put it up, share it with everybody.
	And he doesn't want you to transfer it anywhere else, but you're welcome to download it, look at it, and see for yourself.
	Whitley Strieber, who wrote Communion, has received, and I'm going to let him tell you about the source of the photograph when he is ready.
	Has received a photograph of an alleged alien that he claims is exactly what he saw.
	So real that that described in communion was not quite the full story.
	He intentionally did not describe exactly what he saw so he would know and you would know through him what the real thing was when somebody finally got a photograph.
	He says, this is it.
	So you can download it, it's up there now.
	The MJ-12 badge I used with a photograph, so you'll know me when you see me on Dark Skies, if you get an opportunity to see that December 12th.
	That's up there.
	A link to the Strange Universe television program.
	Now I'm going to be on Strange Universe Tuesday to find out if there is a television station near you, and about 90% of the country is covered.
	You can go to the link to Strange Universe, their website, And it'll give a listing of all their affiliates.
	That's all on my webpage, as well as a link to Dr. Leonard Horowitz.
	All of it at www.artbell.com.
	www.artbell.com right now.
	I got this yesterday.
	Art, I have finally done it!
	After months of communicating with spirits from another realm, I've channeled a spirit, or some say a ghost, into a room which I have prepared for it.
	The spirit calls itself Everett, and Everett communicates both in our English language and telepathically.
	The room that I have Everett trapped in is sealed off by a series of electromagnetic devices which he cannot stand to be within three inches of.
	Or I suppose it'd be, I'm adding this, zapped like a bug, I don't know.
	I've worked on this since around July of 96, and tonight, at 7.06 Central Time, I captured it.
	The spirit is a non-violent one, and does seem to be somewhat scared.
	I have asked him a few questions that you may find of interest.
	Everett says we're being prepared for the great visit of our cousins from beyond.
	So, I could not resist, and I asked Rodney, that's his name, to please send me a phone number.
	He did.
	I've got Rodney on the line.
	From where in Arkansas, Rodney?
	I'm calling from Fort Smith, Arkansas.
	Fort Smith, Arkansas.
	Alright, is this essentially correct, what you wrote?
	Yes, it is.
	I'm not making a bit of it up.
	Not even a little bit?
	Not even a little bit.
	Rodney, how did you...
	Well, I don't even know where to begin here.
	First of all, how did you decide to even begin trying to raise a spirit?
	Okay, let me start by correcting what I told you last night later in the program.
	When I said bug zapper, I'm not talking about one of them blue things that sit on your yard and zap bugs.
	Oh, you're not?
	No, and a lot of people aren't familiar with them.
	What it is, it's a little device you use in your home.
	You plug it in and it gets rid of pests such as insects.
	and rodents, small mice and things like that by a, like a ultrasonic high frequency sound wave.
	Oh, oh, alright. I was featuring in my mind and I couldn't figure it out.
	How a bug zapper would keep anything...
	Right, I just chose the wrong words.
	Okay.
	Well, I see.
	I see.
	In other words, it produces a sound that does what?
	Can it kill mice?
	Right.
	It would.
	No, it don't kill them.
	It just keeps them away.
	It's an unpleasant sound.
	We can't hear it.
	Right.
	Exactly right.
	And so you found... How did you discover that this was something that would control or keep in a certain space a spirit?
	Last December, I was, me and a buddy of mine was sitting around watching Razorbacks play basketball.
	And my wife and his wife was off in another room and doing what I call channeling.
	They go into a trance and I thought they was putting on a little bit, talking other things.
	And we'd sit around and make fun of them.
	But on this particular night during a break in the game... You made fun of your wife?
	Well, I'd make fun of what they was doing.
	I see.
	I figured it was some strange form of entertainment.
	I frankly have never thought a lot about channelers myself, and I've got a sister who channels.
	On this particular night, during a break of the game, I picked up that little pest controller and pointed it right at them.
	And what had happened, they both jumped up and screamed at the same time.
	Really?
	After they screamed, they sat back down and relaxed, but I mean, I found it odd that they screamed at the same time and jumped up.
	Sure.
	They said that the spirit that they were channeling also done the same thing and left.
	And it left, when it left, it looked like it was being pushed out of the room by a wave, like a wave of water is how they described it.
	Ah, so it was insulted, angry, and probably its ears hurt.
	It probably did, if it does have ears.
	Well, or the equivalent in the spirit world.
	In other words, it did not like that sound.
	It must not have.
	What we've done, I got to thinking about this much later, because it took me until July to finally come up with the idea and put it in place, is we bought about five more of these units.
	You bought five more of them?
	Uh-huh.
	Do you have to modify them, by the way, for your use, or do you leave them stock?
	Well, at first we left them just like they come from the manufacturer.
	And what we done was we set it up in a room.
	We made a platform in the room.
	And that's where my wife would get up there and do her channeling.
	But we had a device pointed at each wall, one at the ceiling and one from underneath the platform pointing at the floor, trying to block off any exit.
	Well, that didn't work.
	She said that he exited through an upper corner.
	of the room. In other words, you didn't have it all covered.
	Right. We flipped the switch and she said he exited in the same manner but up in the
	upper left-hand corner of the room. Alright, so this is like a... before we get to how
	you sealed it off, this is like something that you leave off, you lure the spirit in, it
	gets in there and you flip the switch and turn it on and that's it. That's absolutely
	right. Oh man. Alright, so you You didn't have the whole thing covered.
	How'd you end up finally covering it all?
	Well, my friend, he's an electrical engineer, and he suggested taking the unit out of its housing and putting it in a housing that would broadcast the sound waves in a larger pattern.
	So we had to cover the whole thing, either that or buying more units.
	Right.
	So what we come up with was the casing to a drop light, like what you'd use to work on your automobile.
	Sure.
	Okay, and we took the device out of its manufacturer's housing, put it in this, And, uh, just takes one of them to cover the one wall of the room.
	The room's 12 by 14.
	Uh, the platform we have built is, uh, 5 foot by 4 foot.
	And, uh, that's where everything's trapped right there, actually, I mean.
	So it's a relatively small area where you trap it.
	Right.
	Wow.
	There's a small sofa.
	Uh, didn't you worry a little bit that there would be I don't want to say hell to pay, but hell to pay.
	In other words, if you trapped this thing, it would get very angry and very upset and do who knows what.
	I didn't give it much thought.
	I don't actually do the channeling myself.
	You don't have any relations in the Kansas City area, do you?
	Not at all.
	Nothing I'm aware of.
	You know a fellow named Mike Markham?
	No, I don't.
	You don't know Mike Markham.
	All right.
	Just checking.
	So anyway, you got all this done.
	And then, how did you summon, or how did your wife, I guess, who you had been making fun of, summon this spirit?
	Well, she got up on the platform that I've talked about, sat on the sofa, and she goes into like a trance, I'd say for about five minutes, and then she'll start talking and mumbling, and that's what I used to laugh at, because I didn't think there was anything there that she was really talking to, but now I'm convinced that there are.
	I haven't actually seen it with my own eyes.
	I can tell.
	We have a thermometer outside the area, one on the inside of the area, and it's like eight degrees colder in the center there.
	Really?
	It sure is.
	And it's not directly below an air conditioning duct or some reason why it would?
	No, no.
	Matter of fact, I've got the heat duct turned off right now and covered up just in case there could be a route of escape.
	Oh, that's right.
	That's right.
	I hadn't even thought about that.
	It might get away that way through the ducting.
	So it's colder there, and you can document that?
	Oh yeah.
	I've got a thermometer right now, one reading 72 and one reading about 65 right now.
	Wow!
	Wow!
	And it's been that way since you trapped this entity, and that's been over now 24 hours, right?
	Yes, it's been a little over 30 hours now.
	30 hours.
	Aren't you concerned, having an entity like this trapped, that something terrible might happen?
	Well, it's hard to sleep.
	It's hard to sleep in the same house with it.
	What I'm working on now is a way to transport it.
	And I have to go from A.C.
	to D.C.
	You mean like a portable unit?
	Right.
	And by the way, I've never seen Ghostbusters.
	I've rented in Penn State tonight and didn't think about it until after I'd rented it that I should have got Ghostbusters.
	But I've never seen that.
	Well, yes, they kept entities in a magnetically controlled field.
	And you're keeping the entity controlled with ultrasonic.
	I think it's ultrasonic.
	Right, right.
	And it just doesn't like them, or do you think it has more of an ability than even that?
	In other words, even though it wouldn't like these sounds, you would think to get free, it would just burst through if it had to.
	So there must be some greater factor controlling it.
	Well, I'll tell you what, in the email that I sent you, I told you three things that it has communicated to my wife.
	But it's done two more things since that.
	One of the things is that it said that it's not trapped, that it can leave on its own free will, that we could turn off the units.
	And I don't want to believe that.
	Well, has one ever stuck around like that before?
	Before you put in your units?
	No, not after she was done communicating with us.
	So it could be lying to you?
	Right.
	She's not even in the house now, and it's still reading the same.
	Oh, she's not?
	Right.
	She's in Tulsa at some voodoo or something convention.
	A voodoo convention.
	Hocus Pocus or something.
	How did the two of you get along?
	You get along okay?
	Oh, great.
	It sounds like you've tortured her a bit about all of this.
	Oh, it's just good humor.
	Have you apologized, basically, for some of that torture based on the fact that you've now got an entity?
	She knows that I believe her and I don't ever tease her to where she would be upset.
	This, how do you know the spirit's name is Everett?
	Now that was in the original communication I'd say about eight o'clock yesterday evening and that's where she went to a trance and she actually done the talking to it and repeated what was being said.
	I see.
	And I took the notes.
	Have you heard anything You said Everett communicates in English as well as telepathically.
	Uh-huh.
	Does that mean in English through your wife or in English aloud so it can be heard?
	Through her and also she can know exactly what it's thinking and she says it knows exactly what she's thinking.
	Any other physical documentation of the presence of Everett other than the lower temperature which is very interesting?
	Well, I'll tell you what.
	This morning, about 6.30, I put my cat in there.
	You did?
	I put my cat in there.
	You put your cat in there?
	It hunched all up and hissed for about five minutes straight.
	It wouldn't move.
	I finally went out and got my fishing net out of the garage, and it's got a handle on it, and I stuck it in there and pulled it out, and I haven't seen the cat since.
	You had to capture your cat with a net?
	Right, I'm not going in there.
	How long did you leave your cat in there?
	About five minutes, and did not move.
	Didn't it just, what, sat there sort of all hunkered down?
	No, no, no.
	It was on all four feet with its back hunked way up in the air.
	I imagine.
	Like that, huh?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	But I haven't seen her since.
	You haven't seen her since.
	So I don't blame her.
	I'd have run away too.
	So she's probably run away.
	Right.
	Tortured by the spirits.
	What are you going to do with Everett?
	Well, I don't want to leave it in the house.
	I've got kids and I don't like fooling around with that.
	Sort of thing in the first place, as far as being in the same house.
	I'd like to find a way to transport it and to get some pictures of things like a cat going in there, get some pictures of the thermometers or video.
	Well, what are you going to do?
	Pictures are good.
	I would like to have photographs.
	What are you going to do with Everett?
	Assuming that you can get Everett to transport, where are you going to take him?
	No idea, really.
	Hadn't thought that one through, huh?
	No, I haven't.
	And all we're relying on now is the power company.
	It's not going to have a bump, but... Oh my God, I hadn't thought of that.
	So you don't have portable power?
	No, I don't.
	That's very serious.
	Just an instant of loss of power, and Everett's gone.
	Right.
	So you don't believe Everett with regard to, hey, no problem, turn it off, I'm going to stay?
	Not a bit.
	If Everett's lying about that, then Everett could be lying about other information given to you.
	That's right, that's right.
	But I do find it odd that we did have that, uh, plane crash tonight.
	The, uh, C-130.
	Yes.
	And that was one of the things that, uh, he did say originally.
	He predicted that?
	Right.
	It says, uh, it says, our planes will be confused and air controllers will be stunned.
	Catastrophe will fall upon the world's aviation due to unheard signals From our cousins that are presently trying to contact us.
	And that one's got me a little confused, but I know it has to do with our airplanes.
	Well, I'll tell you, Rodney, I, too, watched ID4 earlier in the day.
	Uh-huh.
	And are you sure that that doesn't come from your having watched that movie?
	No, I watched that tonight.
	This is in the email I sent you.
	Oh, I see.
	Yeah, it is.
	As a matter of fact, that's right.
	That's right.
	Here it is.
	Our planes will be confused and air controllers will be stunned.
	Catastrophe will fall upon the world's aviation due to the unheard signals.
	from our cousins that are presently trying to contact us.
	That's right, it's right here.
	It's right here, and you sent that to me before the fact.
	Right, I sent that yesterday at 8.36 p.m.
	Yeah, that's when you sent it, all right.
	Rodney, do you want to give your last name, or are you... Well, I'd rather not.
	I'm sure there'll be a lot of skepticism and ridicule.
	You're probably right, Rodney.
	And what I'm going to do is open the lines during the next half hour.
	Okay.
	And we'll see if we get skepticism, ridicule, interest, advice, questions.
	Can you ask questions?
	I guess without your wife you can't, can you?
	Right.
	No, there's no way.
	Okay.
	I'm not going to step in this thing.
	I don't blame you a bit.
	Stay right there, Rodney.
	This is CBC.
	This is the CBC Radio Network.
	Rodney, are you still there?
	Yes, I am.
	Good.
	All right.
	We've got a bunch of people who want to talk to you.
	I thought I could unnerve you a little bit.
	Apparently not.
	Man of steel.
	I would not have trapped Everett in the first place.
	I mean, it took guts to do that.
	Right.
	Didn't you worry before you did it?
	I don't think I worried at all.
	I'm still not fearful of it unless Like tonight, I wouldn't be able to sleep at all with my wife not home and being home alone.
	Home alone with Everett.
	Do you have children?
	Yes, I do.
	What do they have to say about this?
	Aren't they worried Daddy's got a ghost?
	They don't really know what's going on.
	So you're sparing them?
	You're really not telling them?
	Right, right.
	I don't blame you.
	And you've really got a constant, since you put the thermometer in there, it's been 8, what, 8 degrees colder?
	Right, 7 to 8.
	7 to 8 degrees colder constantly?
	Yeah, either 7 or 8.
	It hasn't been off 7 or 8 degrees difference since we first put it in.
	It hasn't been 6 and it hasn't been 9.
	All right.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Rodney in Arkansas.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	This is Fritz, the other Fritz.
	All right.
	Petaluma.
	Petaluma, Fritz.
	All right.
	Great program, by the way, tonight, Art.
	Thank you.
	I really appreciate the way you do innovative things like this to get Rodney on the air.
	Well, why not?
	Yeah.
	And nobody else is doing it.
	That's for sure.
	Rodney?
	Yes, sir?
	Have you checked to see if your cat was not responding to the ultrasonic waves as opposed to the entity?
	No, I haven't.
	Check that out.
	Okay.
	I might have to go get another cat.
	Set up another room, too.
	Right.
	And with the waves coming at this entity from all sides, wouldn't they be Penetrating right through to the center of where the entity was stationed?
	No, they're facing away.
	Facing away?
	Right.
	It's like a drop light cover, like a dome shape.
	And it's facing the walls.
	Uh-huh.
	He really has no place to go unless he does go through that.
	Uh-huh.
	Interesting.
	I say he, uh, it.
	Huh.
	Okay.
	Alright, well thank you very much for the call.
	So, it, I guess we ought to really call it, it, what, do you know What it was before... No, no.
	We haven't asked that at all.
	She can see it.
	She said it's not closed, no hair.
	It don't have what we would call genitals.
	Really?
	But it's just not glowing.
	I mean, not like what I would picture a ghost.
	I wonder, has anybody suggested any experiments to you?
	That you might do while you have this entity trapped?
	No, no.
	We know nobody that has any type of information on this, period.
	Well, maybe we'll find somebody out there.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Rodney in Arkansas.
	Hey, it's a pleasure.
	This is Tony from Las Vegas.
	Hi.
	Hey, how's it going?
	Hi, Rodney.
	Hi, Tony.
	Hey, I'm a little skeptical, but hey, I've seen a lot of girls, so I just want to know what shape is the consortium of the instrumentation you've got set up?
	And is it covered like that?
	Does it cover the floor?
	And you say it's dome shaped?
	Right, the housing is.
	The housing for each one, there's six of them in the room.
	One facing the ceiling, one facing the floor, and one on each wall.
	Okay, does the ghost have an electrical field of any kind that's detected?
	Or are you not into that yet?
	Or magnetics.
	Magnetics also.
	Yeah.
	I've got no way of checking that.
	Okay.
	Hey, keep up, you know, let's get something on video.
	Get some live correspondence out to your house and look into this.
	Get MUFON out there.
	Okay.
	All right, thank you.
	Yes, had you thought of that, Rodney, that is calling You know, some sort of professional ghostbuster.
	I mean, what you've got is fairly remarkable and may not last.
	Right.
	I have no idea where to look.
	Maybe the Internet or something.
	I was going to say, shouldn't you get somebody out there?
	Yeah, maybe the Internet or maybe somebody will have a suggestion.
	What are you going to do with regard to videotape?
	Well, there's not really much to videotape other than the temperature change or if I throw some animal in there, I guess.
	Unless it is.
	I'm not sure you should keep throwing animals in.
	Besides, you don't have any more to throw in there, right?
	That's right.
	Describe exactly, when you threw your cat in, throw is probably a poor, poor, poor word, phrase.
	Placed.
	Placed your cat in there.
	But my hands didn't ever enter the... So, in other words, you sort of got your cat up to the, the barrier point.
	What did you throw?
	I really threw it.
	And just... And when your cat landed, What did he do?
	All he done was let out a slight, not quite like what I heard you play there, but something similar to that, not quite as long or as loud, and then hissed.
	I mean, it was a constant hiss, by the way, for about five minutes, and he stayed hungered down, and I thought, well, he's gonna die if I don't get him out.
	I don't know if it was actually the entity or, like the caller said, the noise or whatever that is.
	So did you try calling him out?
	Oh yeah, I tried calling him out and it worried me.
	Then I ran to the garage and got my fishing net.
	And you fished him out?
	Right.
	And when he got out, would you have an open door or something?
	Uh-huh.
	And so he just kept on going?
	Right.
	Well, I can't say I blame him.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rodney.
	Hello.
	Hello there.
	This is really neat being on your show, Art.
	Thank you.
	I've been listening to you for a while.
	Well, there's a couple things I wanted to ask you.
	I guess I have to hold them for another time.
	Please, yes.
	We have a guest here, so.
	Yeah.
	I do want to say that I appreciate those Malachi Martin interviews, though.
	That was really good.
	He might be able to help in this matter.
	But I wonder, OK, Mr. Rodney?
	You know, it's a good question.
	I wonder what he would say about this.
	He would probably say, Rodney, you have no idea what you're into here.
	And, you know, you're going to wake up in the middle of the night with a bedspring through your chest.
	Well, if I could ask a couple questions.
	Yeah, go ahead, ask your question.
	My name is Dan, incidentally, and I'm in St.
	Louis, Missouri.
	I wanted to ask you, first of all, I want to make sure that I understand where you're coming from.
	Under penalty of perjury, so to speak, are you or are you not pulling our leg?
	No, sir.
	Okay, then I'll take your word for it.
	I have something to say.
	I'm no expert on this or anything, but I'm just going by my conscience.
	if this thing with the harassing anybody when you traffic with the like
	you know i can go fucker they trapped a demon or something that was not at
	all okay so if it wasn't harassed anybody actually he lorded in
	a real hard work here more appropriately his wife did
	well truly it seems to me just like this going by my conscience you know
	if you were to be in and if you can if the weather and anybody in your dinner
	and if you're holding it against its will
	then you're not authorized to do that Right.
	There can be repercussions.
	And I'll give thought to that, uh, but then what's the consequences when I let it go?
	He's got a point there.
	Well, you see, it's like, um, if it said, it said that it, well, it itself claimed that it can leave anytime.
	Right.
	But that may have been just, uh, something it said in desperation to get you to let it go.
	Sure, I'd say something like that, wouldn't you, if you were trapped?
	Go ahead, turn it off, I'll stay.
	If he's trapped against his will, then it's sort of like putting somebody in prison and you're not authorized to do it.
	Right.
	And there's what you might call cosmic laws.
	I wouldn't want that to happen to me, I mean, in a future life.
	And I've thought seriously about turning it off, but surely not before the show here.
	And one more thing I wanted to ask.
	I might have missed something you said, but can you see it or not?
	No, I cannot.
	Your wife can see it, though?
	Not unless she gets up onto the platform.
	And instantly, this is how I really believe that it's there, because usually it'll take her some time to start communicating, but instantly she'll get up on this platform, sit on the sofa, and go into a trance and start communicating.
	I mean, just that fast.
	And she can see it and hear it and everything?
	Right.
	Now, she may be pulling my leg, but I mean, we have a temperature difference here, and that's one of the main things I'm going on, and knowing my wife and trusting her.
	Well, have you or anybody other than your wife I've never sensed it in any other way, personally.
	There's a cold presence in the house.
	I mean, not chilly cold, just eerie.
	And then there's this cat.
	Right.
	So, it's all very interesting.
	I would like you to get a magnetometer in there.
	Magnetometer.
	A magnetometer.
	It'll tell you if there's a magnetic field emanating from that area.
	Okay.
	And there may well be.
	Caller, thank you.
	Is there any chance of getting your wife on the air?
	Well, you know what?
	His wife has taken off for where?
	Tulsa.
	Tulsa.
	Now, why would she go to Tulsa to leave you alone with this thing?
	Well, she had this planned for a couple of months now.
	I see.
	Would there be a future time when we might be able to get Mrs. Rodney on?
	I'm sure she would love to do that.
	All right, there you go, caller.
	Well, thank you, sir.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rodney.
	Good morning, Art.
	Hi, Bob.
	What's up?
	Well, you know, I was laying there asleep, and I just heard part of this, and I said, hey, that's something interesting.
	But just some cautions there, Rodney, and a question.
	You know, when Hart has interviewed Malachi Martin and Especially in this last time.
	I think it was five times Malachi said that we have to remember that Lucifer can appear as an angel of light.
	And Courtney made a comment about subspace, which he makes reference to what's probably commonly known as the spirit world.
	Well, the spirit world hasn't really been emphasized too much, but it is inhabited by both good and evil spirits.
	And perhaps Art could get discussion from Brother Malachi in this, but in any case, you're playing with nitro there, and I can't help but feel that a lot of people who might be into spirit transfer or remote viewing or anything else, when they start inviting spirits as spiritual experiences if they're not really aware of
	what they might be getting into it will turn into something like arch we do
	board experience well you know i could certainly turn into something
	negative uh...
	are you at all can i mean during this whole period ronnie surely especially in the beginning of the said you
	totally freaked out
	when you knew you had it uh... didn't you worry that you might have summoned up
	something as a scholar said
	not not like i have to have been talking to your colors But uh, that does raise a little concern to me now.
	In all the excitement, I haven't given much thought to the worry.
	Again, I wonder if you managed to get this spirit Everett out and into a portable holder, so then where do you take Everett?
	Well, I'm leaning toward not doing that now after talking to that last caller.
	Yep, yep, yep, yep.
	Alright, wild card line, you're on the air with Rodney in Arkansas.
	This is fascinating.
	Rodney, I commend you for your adventurous spirit.
	If I was doing this, I would try to get my wife to, you know, this could be a fabulous learning experience, posing questions to the entity.
	About what things are like in the spirit realm, if it's being honest with you, it could be a great chance to learn some things and ask some questions about the hereafter.
	Also, there are inroads you could make, actions you could take to maybe get this story on one of the TV shows, and there is a way to contact that Ghostbuster that sightings used.
	Yeah, do you want publicity beyond this program, Rodney?
	I'm not sure about that right now.
	Well, I mean, obviously, if we gave your last name, I guarantee.
	I know that.
	I guarantee you would be inundated with hard copy, strange universe.
	They'd be the path to your door, as would many others.
	Let's pass on that for right now, Art.
	All right.
	That's your answer.
	He doesn't want more.
	Well, I hope I can interview your wife before too long.
	It'll be very interesting to hear what she has to say, too, when she comes back.
	That's a good question.
	You know your wife.
	I don't.
	If we had her now on the phone from Tulsa, what would she say?
	She would tell you it's real.
	I mean, she's absolutely convinced.
	There's not even a slight doubt in her mind.
	And she's not at all worried about trucking off to Tulsa and leaving you Holding the ghost.
	Not a bit.
	She told me just not to get in there unless I wanted to go into whatever she does.
	But I'm not sure that a person not wanting to could actually do that.
	Can you tell us what model?
	A lot of people will want to know what model ultrasonic thingamajigger you're using.
	It was a 3200.
	It's what was on the... Made by?
	Do you know?
	I think it's called RID Pest.
	RID Pest?
	RID, R-I-D.
	Oh, R-I-D.
	RID Pest.
	RID Pest.
	And a model what?
	3200.
	Modified, though.
	Right.
	Gee.
	All right.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Rodney.
	Hello.
	Uh, hello?
	Hello.
	Oh, is this Art Belcher?
	Yes, it is.
	Oh, I, I, oh my God.
	You've got a very bad phone line, sir.
	Yeah, I do.
	Um, I really do.
	Um, does that make anything better?
	No.
	Okay.
	Can you hear me very well at all?
	Well, I can hear you.
	Go ahead and ask your question.
	Okay.
	Well, I had a question for you, and I had a statement for Rodney.
	All right.
	Got to make it quick, so go ahead.
	Okay.
	What I wanted to say was to Rodney, if this entity has shared good information with him and his wife, and everything has been positive until this point, Rodney, you should trust this Make good with yourself and let him go, um, if it's all been good information up to that point.
	So, in other words, you think Everett should be freed?
	Well, I do, for, for, uh, if Everett has never done nothing but send good information for them.
	Well, now, that's a, that's a, thank you, that's a horrible phone line, sir, I'm sorry.
	That's an open question, though.
	Because I don't, and I can't believe that Everett would stay where he is Without the RID Pest Model 3200 keeping him right there.
	Right.
	And you believe that too, don't you?
	I also do.
	Alright, then that means that Everett fibbed.
	Because he said he would stay even if you turned it off.
	Right.
	But even a good person would do that, trapped.
	That's true.
	It is kind of a spiritual equivalent to kidnapping.
	Right.
	However, I think You're safe, as far as any law would go.
	Certainly, you really couldn't be convicted of doing something for which there is no law.
	I mean, there's a law covering kidnapping people, but not spirits.
	Uh-huh.
	So I think you're safe, except perhaps cosmically.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rodney.
	Hello.
	Hi, guys.
	This is Chuck from West Virginia.
	Hi, Chuck.
	I just wanted to talk to you about everything.
	Yeah.
	A funny thing happened to me.
	I was sitting here thinking, it sounds to me like it might not really be a ghost.
	It might just be some old guy who's been sitting out trying to astrally project, and he was just running around.
	I never thought of that.
	In other words, somebody who went through sleep paralysis, left his body.
	It could be Ed Dames.
	And got trapped in Rodney's little trap.
	Yep.
	And so there's somewhere, there's a body sitting there waiting for it to be snapped back and nothing's snapping back.
	I can imagine that.
	Poor soul.
	Yeah, they'd be lucky if they don't bury the guy.
	Yep.
	It is a thought, Rodney.
	Yes, thank you, sir.
	It is a thought, Rodney.
	Right.
	We don't know the nature of the spirit, do we?
	We sure don't.
	You really are dealing with some unknown stuff here.
	Right.
	Coming on your show, I've learned a lot.
	I may consider, when my wife comes back in the morning... Oh, she'll be back in the morning?
	Right.
	Flipping the switch.
	But I wouldn't dare do it without her.
	You know what I would do?
	I would do a test.
	I would have her contact Everett and again ask, you're really going to say if we turn this thing off and then turn it off?
	And if ever it goes sliding, slipping, and sliding back to wherever, then, uh, well, then you will know that you were definitely lied to, and that would put into question all the information, other information, or, if ever it stays, then I think that would underscore the other information.
	Right.
	Wouldn't it?
	It sure would.
	All right, well, look, uh, there are many, many more people who want to talk to you.
	Do you want to hold on for a bit?
	Sure will.
	All right, Rodney.
	This is Rodney and, I guess, Everett, actually.
	And we're going to get a chance to talk to his wife and confirm all of this.
	Rodney has a spirit trapped in Arkansas.
	What do you think?
	Free Rodney or keep him bottled up?
	We'll be right back.
	back. Stay tuned for more of the best of Art Bell.
	Thanks for watching.
	You're listening to an encore performance of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
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	I'll tell you what you can do, Rodney.
	I've got one idea.
	Okay.
	Do you have a camera?
	Yeah, I do.
	You do.
	Why don't you, at the very least, take a photograph of the whole lash-up that you've got there right now, while it's running, while Everett is still trapped, and send me that photograph.
	Okay.
	Can you do that?
	I sure can.
	Do we have people that can detect it from a photograph?
	You never know about this audience, Ronnie, but at the very least, we would get an opportunity to see your lash-up.
	Right.
	Your laboratory.
	Right, I'll do that.
	The RID Pest Modified 3200s, right?
	Right.
	And you'll give me the address after the show?
	I'll give you the address right now if you've got a piece of paper.
	I'm ready to rest.
	This is priceless.
	I wouldn't miss it.
	Alright, it's Art Bell.
	That's my name.
	Uh-huh.
	P.O.
	Box 4755.
	Okay.
	Perump.
	I know it's a strange name.
	That's P-A-H-R-U-M-P.
	Nevada.
	N-V-A-T-A.
	Envy, zip code 89041-4755.
	Okay.
	And I will then take that photograph and scan it and put it on the web and in our newsletter and stuff like that so people can see it.
	Okay.
	Seeing is sort of believing.
	Now, I've got a fax here from Fairbanks, Alaska, and I don't want you to take it wrong.
	It's from TJ and Nicole up there, all right?
	Uh-huh.
	Please let Rodney know that we believe his wife may have gone to Tulsa to a voodoo conference, in quotes, as a cover-up to visit a lover.
	She has cleverly left poor Rodney, staring into empty space, surrounded by jerry-rigged bug zappers, and even his cat has now left him.
	Well, if she is, I hope she's living it.
	All right.
	First time caller line, you are on the air with Rodney in Arkansas.
	This is Penny from Burbank.
	Hi, Penny.
	And I want to know if this would be true, that he could capture or stop any entity with this RID Pass 3200.
	Well, it's not just one RID Pass 3200.
	But I meant, I meant focusing them, would they all be affected by this same ultrasonic... Well, now you've got to bear in mind that even Everett claims, ha ha, that he's not trapped by this thing.
	Well, I don't believe him.
	I don't either.
	But I do think that this would be wonderful news for Father Malachi because he might be able to use it when he's trying to get rid of possessed individuals, demons.
	No, it's a very good point.
	I don't know whether... Did you hear Father Malachi, Martin?
	Yes, I did.
	The exorcist?
	Okay, there you go.
	So, you're right, ma'am.
	It would be a wonderful tool if we can prove that it is working.
	Is this the same entity that jumped when he first shot it at his wife?
	I'm not sure on that.
	No, I'm not sure.
	Oh, well that would tell us whether more than one would be affected by it.
	Right, because that was back in December of 95.
	So it could be a different one.
	It sure could.
	Do you think that Everett should be set free or that he should hold Everett until his wife gets back?
	No, he should set Everett free because his wife can bring in any of them, any number of times, any time she wishes.
	Right.
	Well, for heaven's sakes, do not do that until you take a photograph for me.
	Well, I won't, and there's no chance I'll do it without her here.
	Yeah, I agree with that.
	Because she can protect you if he wants to attack you.
	All right, wonderful.
	Thank you very much, ma'am.
	Bye.
	Take care.
	So far, it seems to be the vote is going towards setting Everett free.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Rodney in Arkansas.
	Good evening.
	Hello there.
	Should I say good morning?
	I don't know if you realize it or not, but Fort Smith is a gathering place for spirits because of the gallows down here.
	Rodney probably knows about that.
	I've heard about that.
	Gallows?
	Yeah, Judge Parker's gallows.
	Judge Parkers?
	The Hanging Judge.
	One of you want to fill me in?
	Well, there's about no building downtown that's not haunted by some kind of spirit.
	Really?
	Right.
	And they got all upset when we had this storm come through.
	And they're just moving all over the place.
	Well, I certainly remember when the storm came through, it tore that place apart.
	Right.
	Anyway, I'm not a religious fanatic by any means, but I have witnessed, my wife has been, And I have witnessed several clergy exorcise demons from people.
	In Fort Smith?
	Right.
	Some Pentecostal preachers.
	Evangelical Temper, for example, or some of the people over at Spirit 106 Radio.
	Spirit 106 Radio?
	Right.
	It's a gospel station.
	I see.
	I shouldn't laugh, alright.
	And they can go through a house, several of the elders, and pray in each room.
	Well, maybe Rodney should bring one of these people in since you've got them locally.
	Right.
	And also, don't set it free without them.
	Right.
	And another thing you don't want to do is... Because it may have a lot of pent-up anger.
	Right.
	Especially with children.
	It may burn the house.
	And another thing, then take your wife to them.
	And have her exercise too, huh?
	Right.
	That's the best advice I can give, but I have actually seen petite women talking men's voices in some of these Pentecostal churches.
	No offense, but living right there in Fort Smith with all you've told me about the Hanging Judge and all the rest of it, you believe Rodney.
	Oh, I believe Rodney.
	I'm at work right now, and I work about 200 yards from the graveyard.
	They buried most of the people that were hanging.
	And it's just cold as everything in there and, you know, the heater's on.
	All right.
	Well, thank you very much for the call.
	There's somebody right in your own hometown, Rodney, who certainly believes you.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rodney.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Tim in Minneapolis.
	Hi, Tim.
	Hi.
	This is one of the rare times when I have to disagree with art.
	I grew up in a household where my dad did exorcisms for I don't know, 25, 30 years or so.
	Sure.
	And I believe the spirit can probably leave when it wants, and it's playing games with you.
	Well, you're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with Rodney.
	Well, yes you are, because I agreed with Rodney.
	I mean, I don't know if this is for real or not, but if it is, this is what I'm saying.
	I think it can probably leave when it wants, and the reason I say that is, when he threw the cat in there, he could have entered the cat, and when he pulled the cat out, Well, you could suggest that that happened, but how would you account for the fact that there remains, what, a seven degree temperature difference?
	That's my point.
	I believe he's still there and he's playing games with them.
	I think he could have done that, but I think he wants... I mean, spirits love to do that.
	They love to... That's what they do.
	That's why witches can do what they want.
	A potion can't do anything.
	So if he wanted out, he could have got out through the cat.
	Yeah, that's something I didn't think of.
	That's probably true.
	I mean, a spirit could enter a cat, I think.
	But I'm no expert in these matters, so I don't know.
	Me either.
	Spirits like to pretend like you are in control and use that as leverage against you to do what they want in the spirit world.
	Knowing that Everett's there, either voluntarily or not, would you sleep well, Caller?
	No, I wouldn't allow him to be there, number one.
	So why?
	Why would you?
	You'd serve up some sort of eviction notice.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	Well, thank you.
	Had you... You really should think about that, Rodney.
	In other words, Everett really could have jumped into your cat instead of causing your cat to jump.
	Right.
	And just... Well, but maybe not.
	Maybe your Model 3200 RID pests are keep... In other words, the spirit could not leave with those RID pests still operative.
	Even in the cat?
	Right.
	But there's a chance he could have also.
	Well, except your temperature is still low.
	Right.
	So obviously he didn't leave.
	He might be there voluntarily.
	Well, I'm sure he's there voluntarily.
	I'm just saying he could have if that's what he wished to do.
	Or maybe you're going to try and get him to go, and he isn't going to go.
	How about that one?
	In other words, you could turn off the RID pests and all the rest of it, and Everett would still be there.
	Forever.
	I think what we'll do is probably try to throw the switch on it sometime Sunday, and I'll let you know what happens.
	But that'll be after your wife gets back.
	Yeah, she'll be home this Saturday.
	She'll be home Sunday morning.
	All right.
	Wells to the Rockies.
	You're on the air with a broad knee in Arkansas.
	Hello, this is Glennon Bakersfield.
	Hi.
	Hi, I got a couple comments and a really bad joke.
	Alright.
	You want the bad joke first?
	No.
	Okay.
	Cause that might get you blown off the air.
	It'd be better if that happened at the end.
	Okay.
	Um, I don't necessarily believe in ghosts, but I do believe in demons and angels, things like that.
	And, um, from what he said so far, I would have to believe that, um, since Rodney said that, uh, He would say, even after he turns it off, I'd have to guess that the ghost is probably, or the demon or whatever it is, is probably lying to him.
	And if he's lying to him, then it's not necessarily a good spirit.
	And if it's a bad spirit, then he's going to be in trouble when he turns it off.
	That's an awfully good point.
	That's an awfully good point.
	He's also mentioned that he has some other cousins somewhere else.
	Can you imagine how much bottled-up anger this thing must have?
	Yes, I wouldn't necessarily turn that off unless I had the father that was there with me.
	That's a very good point, Rodney.
	I really think it's a good point.
	This thing, I know if I was Everett, I'd be really ticked off at you.
	I might not say it because I'd keep hoping to charm you into letting me go, but I would have a lot of pent-up anger.
	Lots of that.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rodney.
	Hello.
	Hello there.
	Hey.
	You've got to turn your radio off, sir.
	Okay, it's off.
	All right, go ahead.
	Okay, this is Joe from Nashville.
	Yes, Joe.
	Uh, I've got a few comments here about, uh, as far as those, uh, sound waves.
	Is that what's supposedly holding him in there?
	Yeah.
	Wouldn't those be, uh, bouncing off the walls and just, uh, going all through the room itself?
	You know, so the whole room would be saturated with those?
	No, I think they're directional.
	Those kind of waves clearly can be made to be directional.
	I think that's what he's done.
	And also on the thermometers, I don't know how accurate they are, but has he tried switching them, you know, placing them, switching them out, seeing if the readings are the same or if they change, you know, back to where they are now?
	No, that's a very good point.
	In other words, for example, Rodney, have you tried putting another thermometer in there just to test the accuracy of that one
	or have you tried taking that one out? No I haven't that's a good point and
	something else could do is switch them around the one reading warmer put on the
	inside and see if it goes cooler. Exactly. Right. So do that and again it's very
	important that you get a photograph of all this.
	I sure will.
	All right.
	All right.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Rodney in Arkansas.
	How you doing, Art?
	Rodney?
	I got a couple quick things for you, Rodney.
	One is, don't be too... Some of these people are trying to scare you.
	Don't be too mad if he's angry at you.
	Just turn your red pet back on him again.
	He'll run.
	I mean, you got the weapon right there.
	I sure do.
	If he gets nasty, just turn it on him again.
	And if he said he's not trapped, well, don't feel bad.
	He said he's not trapped.
	But you may even want to consider pulling out the old reach board right about now and using that as a kind of telephone.
	Or, you might want to just put a forced sale sign up in front of the house, and while your wife's gone, pack up and let her know by phone, and get the heck out of there.
	Don't take him too seriously, Rodney.
	You didn't mean him any harm.
	Right.
	And I think he can sense that.
	Yeah, and I could use that as a weapon.
	I didn't think of that.
	Somehow I can see you, though, just wheeling around the room with one of the RID vests in your hand, trying to protect yourself, and I don't know about that.
	Yeah, I couldn't see what I was fighting against.
	No, you know, I don't like that idea.
	All right, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rodney.
	Yes, John, Pacifica, California.
	Hi, John.
	Yes, I have some information for you.
	Metaphysical consultant for the last 30 years.
	All right, here's the kind of guy you need, Rodney.
	All right.
	Is what you have trapped there is known by a number of different names.
	Luciferian, Gremlin, that's why they're causing all the plane crashes.
	What they are are astral beings that inhabit the etheric plane close to the physical plane.
	And they cause plane crashes, they cause car crashes, A lot of house fires are happening lately, too, because they live off the life forces given off of people that are killed suddenly.
	Alright, sir, does this sound like... now I've never heard of trapping one of these things this way.
	Does it sound logical that he could have done this?
	Well, the reason he's able to do it now, he wouldn't have been able to do it a year ago,
	is because the astral plane and the physical plane are now coming into alignment.
	They're merging.
	And a lot of the astral entities are being made more dense.
	They're densifying.
	Alright, but I've got to ask again.
	This is a specific question.
	Does it sound logical to you that he could have trapped one of these things the way he has done it?
	Absolutely.
	It does.
	He couldn't have done it, like I said, he couldn't have done it a couple of years ago because The astral plane and the physical plane were too far apart, but now they're being brought together.
	It's like mentioned in Redfield's The Tenth Insight, where the afterlife world and the physical world are being brought together.
	Now, this is essential for bringing about the new age.
	Alright, well, look, that's getting pretty deep.
	What does he do with this thing?
	Keep it locked up.
	Keep it there.
	Don't turn off the switch.
	The thing that's going to destroy this thing and its cousins, as it refers to, are other demons.
	They're very dangerous.
	It's the photon belt.
	The intensity of the photon belt, the light energy, the spiritual forces coming through the photon belt will destroy all these entities.
	If he lets it go, chances are he'll either die in a car wreck or his house will burn down.
	Oh, man.
	These are the entities that hover close to the earth.
	They're seen by psychic entities.
	All right, all right.
	I think we've got the message.
	Thank you very much.
	Rodney, now what?
	I mean, there's expert advice.
	Let it go.
	You'll die in a car crash or your house will burn down.
	That's a tough decision there, Hark.
	But I think I'd take my chances with letting it go.
	Really?
	With the kids in the house?
	I'd get the kids out of there.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rodney.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Is this the Hark Bell Show?
	Yes, it is.
	Yes.
	Hey, I hope Rodney's got his insurance policy well paid for.
	Yeah.
	I'm listening to you through WTDM here in Madison, Wisconsin.
	All right.
	Apparently the call signals stand for we two dumb yuppies.
	But anyway, we got some concerns here because I don't know if Rodney's been nipping into his bottled spirits or not.
	Let's ask him that.
	Rodney, have you been doing any controlled substances?
	I've not done any since last New Year's.
	Last New Year's.
	How about the bottle?
	Not at all.
	Haven't been tipping the bottle?
	Not a bit.
	And you'd swear on Anything available, this is all true?
	Yes, sir.
	Well, there you go, caller.
	I got another question, sir.
	Yes.
	As you probably know, in Scandinavia, they are the world leaders in cold temperature electronics.
	And they analyze brainwaves from people's brains.
	They don't freeze the people, but they actually, through cold temperature, can measure these brainwaves.
	And I have a physicist electronics friend of mine Who allegedly claims that they trapped not one, but three.
	Three.
	Spirits.
	Wow.
	Accidentally.
	And that they are from Cydonia.
	Arizona?
	No, Cydonia.
	Cydonia are, Homer mentions them, they're the Phoenicians.
	And Homer mentions the, we call them the Phoenicians.
	So 1,700 years before the time of Christ, they appeared in the Near East, where Sidon, Tyre is.
	They gave us the alphabet.
	Nobody knows where they came from.
	What did they do?
	Well, okay, they got him trapped.
	What did they do with him?
	Well, here's the situation now.
	It's very interesting.
	Now, this engineer alleges this.
	All right, listen, caller.
	I've got a break I've got to go to.
	Do you want to hold on?
	Yes.
	All right, hold on, please, Rodney.
	Hang in there.
	We'll be right back.
	Rodney has trapped Everett in a series of RID pest 3200, model 3200 bug things, pest things, and he's got Everett.
	We're trying to figure out what to do.
	All right, here we go again.
	We have Rodney from Arkansas, if you're just joining us.
	Rodney has trapped Everett, who is a spirit, in sort of a lash-up made up of a number, quite a number, of RID Pest 3200s.
	He confirms that Everett is indeed in there because the temperature has maintained about a seven degree difference with the rest of the room.
	And it has done this since Everett has been trapped.
	Everett was trapped about 30, in excess of 30 hours ago now.
	And so, Rodney, there you are, and caller, you're back on the air.
	Yes, I have two serious questions to ask of Rodney, but before I ask them, and I hope he's honest when he answers them, I must continue on just for a minute about the Sidoni.
	They are the Phoenicians.
	Homer called them the Phoenicians, but he mentioned that they themselves have a name for themselves, the Sidoni.
	And you have been talking about Sidonia on your shows every now and then.
	It's very interesting.
	In any event, they are apparently a very intelligent tribe that came up with our alphabet.
	All right.
	Alright, sir, but that may or may not relate to what...
	Well, anyway, they are apparently aware of blonde white people.
	They're related to the finoyerolic people.
	But my question now is, this engineer alleges they did actually get a picture of these three
	spirits.
	Cool.
	Now, Rodney must do the following.
	But first, does Rodney have any stock, or is he a CEO of this red pest company?
	And two, can he take a picture through a night vision scope?
	Because that way you can pick up on temperature differences.
	Oh, hold on.
	That's a good suggestion.
	First of all, do you have stock in, or are you part of the Red Pest Company, Rodney?
	Neither one.
	Neither one?
	No, I'm a factory worker, as a matter of fact.
	Alright, there's your answer.
	Okay, what about taking a picture through that night scope?
	Do you have a night scope?
	I have no night scope.
	Then have a night scope.
	Well, you better get that picture and then send that to Art Bell right away so we can get a good look.
	Otherwise, Rodney, I think you're the fellow who's talking that rolled up dog poopy and you better go out and get yourself another phone.
	Alright, thank you.
	Now, I've got several pieces of advice by fax.
	My fax machine is going absolutely crackers here.
	What are some things that Everett has predicted, aside from the air disaster, which we've already documented for you as true?
	What else did he predict?
	Okay, uh, I told you earlier in the show that there was two more questions since the email that I've sent you.
	And the, uh, well, it wasn't really a question, it was a statement.
	And he said that, uh, within two weeks, we would find the ancient records.
	Uh, and I have no idea what this is about.
	All right, that's one.
	And the other one was, what I did tell you at the time, was that we could turn off the contraption and... Oh, that's right, that's right, that's right.
	And it's cool, he'd stay.
	Right.
	Alright.
	Dear Art, I suggest Rodney apologize to Everett.
	Really apologize.
	What the caller said about violating cosmic laws makes good sense.
	I believe there's a greater law we must abide by, and Rodney is seriously breaking it.
	He should let Everett go from Hawaii.
	Well, I'm seriously considering that.
	Alright, and then this.
	Rodney had better be praying that he does not suffer a power outage.
	You know, the lights blinked just a minute ago.
	It wasn't a power outage.
	Oh my.
	I guess the heat kicked on or something.
	It kind of threw my heart into overdrive.
	Yeah, I know.
	It just threw the power down a little bit.
	Every time the power blinks or something, you must really, your heart must increase.
	Right.
	This is the CBC Radio Network.
	CBC Radio Network.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rodney in Arkansas.
	Hi, my name's Jason.
	I'm in L.A.
	Yes, Jason.
	And, uh, the thing I wanted to comment is that, uh, that type of pest control thing that you're using, Rodney?
	Uh-huh.
	Alright, that thing, if you look on the directions, which on all those types of things are, they only work on insects and small rodents.
	So being that your cat is not a rodent, it's not going to affect it the way The way, with what you're saying that happened, is not really going to happen if, being that your cat's not a rodent.
	Right.
	In short, that's it.
	So in other words, you're suggesting the reaction of the cat had nothing to do with the RID pest last show.
	Exactly, because if you know, if you look at any of these mechanisms that do this, it'll say on the box, safe for household pets.
	That's absolutely right, I remember that.
	And the other thing is that as far as the picture goes, This guy that just called before talking about this night vision camera or whatever this crap that he's talking about.
	What the thing is, is if you notice whenever you watch sightings or any of these other shows when people take pictures of families outside of the house and they'll notice a figure that's in the window that wasn't there, there was no one in the house, everyone was outside.
	These were done with regular, standard cameras that you buy at the store.
	So if you had a normal, like it's one of those new $25 Polaroids, those Instamatic cameras, or a normal type 35mm camera, if there is such an entity in there, you're gonna see it on that average camera, which again, emphasizes what everyone sees these things with, with these average cameras.
	Alright, what kind of camera do you have, Rodney?
	A Minolta 35mm.
	That be good, caller?
	There you go.
	And also, another thing is, on sightings, I want to make this real brief, that if you take a video camera, and again, this works the same thing as with the snapshot type cameras, if you take a video camera and you film the area where it's at, obviously you're not going to see anything because, as they say, naked eye cannot see these types of things.
	But if you videotape it, and you go back and play the videotape in your VCR, if there's something in the picture, in the snapshot, you're going to conceivably see it also on the videotape.
	All right.
	All right.
	Well, we appreciate the advice.
	Thank you very much, Rodney.
	Yes, sir.
	Rodney, turn off the power.
	I'll be good.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Rodney.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	Hi, RFL.
	This is Mike.
	I'm calling from Evansville, Indiana.
	Yes.
	Hi, Mike.
	I've been listening to your show for about, oh, maybe a month now.
	Not quite a month.
	Great show, by the way.
	Fascinating.
	Thank you.
	I was going to tell Rodney one thing, that I have what's called a Pest Raider 3.
	I have five of them in my house, because we live in a low-lying area, and we have pests.
	We did have, constantly, until I got these in.
	They work great.
	Mine send them out in two directions, and they don't go through walls or anything like that.
	They do bounce around.
	And according to, I got my manual right here, and it says it's safe on pets.
	We've got a little kitten named Pockets in here, and it had no effect on it.
	My question was, has he tried using a digital camera?
	We just got a digital camera recently, and I've been, you know, taking pictures like crazy.
	And on our printouts, you know, all of the kids have these like little fuzzy, it's strange, it sounds stupid, but they have these little fuzzy things around them.
	Uh, I guess what you'd call auras or something, but we took it to the shop to get fixed because obviously, you know, there's something wrong with it.
	And they said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with this thing.
	Uh, it doesn't do it on everybody, but I was thinking, you know, if by some really bizarre thing that might be an aura, maybe, uh, uh, he might try using a digital camera.
	A digital camera.
	All right.
	Well, that's a good suggestion.
	Boy, we've had many.
	It's a, you know, after listening to all the callers, It's like being between a rock and a hard place on this, because half of them say you should set it free, and the other half say, don't, you'll die in a car crash or your house will burn down or something.
	Right.
	Which way are you leaning?
	That's going to take some thought, but I'm leaning towards setting it free.
	If that was me that had been captured in a future life or in the other world, I wouldn't like that.
	I know, but think about it.
	Angry, even vengeful, once you got free.
	Uh-huh.
	Tough choice.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Rodney.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Smoker David Mace.
	It's been a while.
	Yes, sir.
	Got one comment from your earlier show.
	The New York Blood Center is now under grand jury investigation in regards to some of their testing.
	Well, there you are.
	And now to Rodney.
	In regards to Dr. Father Malachi Martin, You might consider, I don't think you'll be possessed, but I think maybe Everett will be harassing you when you let him go.
	So when you do turn off the power, you might want to set up another array that's big enough where you can jump in, because I don't think Everett would follow you back in.
	You know what?
	You're right, caller.
	In other words, he could be possessed.
	Don't discount that possibility.
	If I was Rodney, I think when I turned off the power, I'd get the kids and the wife out.
	And then I'd go to the The main switch box, hopefully outside the house, and turn the power off there.
	Yeah, but he might want that power back on so that the spirit or entity wouldn't pass through the barrier to get to Rodney.
	Well, I couldn't live there the rest of my life.
	Oh, no, no, but bring in a cellular phone and give Father Martin a call and get an exercise.
	And get something done on the phone, you mean?
	Yeah, I guess that could be done.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rodney.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Steve from Sacramento.
	Hi, Steve.
	And I would just like to make a couple of statements real quick.
	First of all, you can manipulate air temperature with sound waves.
	There's even a refrigerator you can buy that uses sound waves to make your food cold.
	Really?
	Yes.
	The Japanese invented it maybe ten years ago.
	So you think that's why the air might be getting cold?
	Well, alright, here's a good way to check it.
	Before you ever trapped this thing, turned the power on that is, did you have the thermostat there?
	When your wife was channeling this thing in?
	No, because we didn't realize that it was cold at the time.
	Until she said that it was cold in that area, we never thought there'd be a need to... What I'm asking is, did she sense that before you turned the power on?
	No.
	No.
	And also, I'd like to say, You have a unique opportunity here because there have been recordings of spirits on tape recorders using microphones and stuff.
	Right now, if he's close enough to this apparatus, if he can simply flip the phone receiver in there, if this entity wants to communicate, we can do it nationwide right now.
	You want me to try that?
	Yeah.
	I don't have to get the cordless.
	Can you hang on just a minute?
	Oh, a cordless phone?
	Uh-huh.
	Well, that would mean you'd, let's see, you'd have to throw the cordless phone in there, wouldn't you?
	No, I'll just put it up close.
	Now, is that what the caller was asking?
	Uh, I guess so.
	I guess so.
	I don't know if you'd have to cross the barrier or not.
	Well, I'm not gonna do that.
	I don't blame you.
	Uh, so you're not gonna actually throw the cordless phone in as you did the cat?
	No.
	Well, there's an idea.
	I'll get my wife to retrieve it when she gets back.
	Yeah, but wait.
	No, no, wait.
	It'll be on.
	When you throw it in.
	Right.
	Right?
	So... Go ahead and get your cordless.
	Let's try this.
	This is worth a try.
	I guess we can get close.
	I don't know if I'm going to have him throw it in there or not.
	Because then his line would be busy.
	I suppose he could turn the base unit off after that.
	That would be a way.
	Find out where the base unit is.
	Are you there?
	I'm there.
	Now listen, here's a way you can do it.
	Where is your base unit located?
	My base unit is about 20 feet from the area.
	Okay, now what I'm suggesting is, we'll try holding it up and then we'll try throwing it in.
	Okay.
	And once it's in there, as long as your base unit is on, it's going to hang your phone line up.
	But what you can do is throw it in, in the on position, and then And then, when you're done with the experiment, you can unplug your base unit.
	Right.
	And that'll free your line.
	You see what I'm saying?
	Yes.
	Alright, so let's give it a try.
	Get close first.
	Okay, I'm on the cordless now.
	I understand.
	We're just gonna hold it up next to it?
	Yeah, hold it up next to it.
	I'll turn the volume up.
	up we'll see if we can hear anything. I hear absolutely nothing.
	I hear absolutely nothing.
	Right.
	All right, but of course you don't ever hear anything either, do you?
	Never.
	All right, here's what we've got to do.
	Now, Rodney, now I want you to throw the phone in there, but after you do it, we're going to listen for, I don't know, a few seconds and see if we can hear anything.
	Okay.
	And then I want you to go get on the other phone and leave the cordless going so if there's anything that's said during the last few minutes of the program, we'll hear it.
	You see what I'm saying?
	Alright, so go ahead and throw the cordless in.
	Alright, it's there.
	It's there?
	Uh-huh.
	And operating inside the field?
	Yeah.
	I suppose it's operating.
	Yeah, we have no way of knowing if it's working, but I didn't hear it.
	I don't think I heard it disconnect, so I presume it's still on.
	Right.
	The base looks like it is.
	The base lights up.
	The base is receiving?
	Right.
	All right, then it's on inside the field.
	Now, whatever you do, don't go and retrieve it.
	Right.
	And we'll just listen as we take the last few calls here.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rodney.
	Hello.
	All right.
	How in the world are you?
	Well, you're listening.
	Interesting.
	Interesting.
	Yeah.
	Ken, this is Ken.
	Where are you, Ken?
	Arkansas.
	All right.
	Oh, Arkansas.
	Yeah, I'm an Eldorado.
	Oh.
	How you doing, Rodney?
	Just fine, Ken.
	You holding up all right, huh?
	Hey, I do have one suggestion.
	And that is this, because of the creative power that we have in us, in other words, there's a direct connection with God in your being, pretty much whatever you believe about this being, whether good, evil, whatever, it's going to react to you the same way, it'll respond to you the same way.
	In other words, you can make a connection, and it's either good or evil, depending on your state of being.
	Uh-huh.
	Does that make sense?
	Yeah, it does.
	So, uh, there's really nothing to fear except yourself.
	Right.
	Okay?
	There's always the unknown.
	Fear of the unknown.
	Yeah, that's exactly right.
	All right.
	Well... It's just a manifestation, uh, that is similar to you.
	You're a spirit being.
	And what would you say if, uh, if he flipped the switch and tomorrow you read in the paper there in Arkansas about Rodney's house burning down?
	Well, I'd come up and help him.
	I sure would!
	All right.
	All right, sir.
	Thank you very much.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Rodney.
	How you doing, Art?
	Calling from the other side of the Spring Mountains.
	All right.
	On a VTAC.
	I just want to let this Rodney know that, you know, this doesn't happen to everybody and he really should hold on to it and speak to a professional or bring a professional on in there because you just don't let this thing go.
	I know eventually during his lifetime or during the next couple of weeks, If he wants to make himself feel a little better, he should let it go on his own.
	You know, it's gonna go sometime, don't you agree?
	It will escape eventually.
	I don't know.
	It depends on whether it's telling the truth about being there voluntarily, which I don't think it is.
	I think it's lying its little spirit butt off.
	Well, with Everett, where did the name originate anyway?
	I never got that.
	Oh, okay.
	Well, you don't know?
	No idea.
	You just named it Everett.
	No, I didn't name it at all.
	Now, when my wife contacted, she asked him what his name was, or what to call him.
	And it said Everett.
	Right.
	Don't you think Everett will take it easy on you a little bit if you do let it go, say, in about a week or two?
	No, he certainly wouldn't take it easy on me if I kept him for a year.
	But he might be a little ticked off that I've kept him for 30 hours now.
	Well, I really believe if you let him go, say, in about a day or two, he really, like the other caller said, I think he might be playing games with you and he probably could leave at any time.
	I think what you've done is super fantastic, and if you're joking with all of us out here in the world, have fun!
	Well, I don't either.
	my friend thank you very much for the call have a good morning wild card line
	you're on the air with rodney in arkansas good morning rodney
	rodney um...
	i think what you've done is super fantastic and if you're joking with all of us out here in the world uh...
	have fun i don't think he is well i don't either i wouldn't call you
	art this is ron here in perump but if you remember right on halloween
	night i gave you a call and i told you a story i spoke about and spoke it
	I absolutely recall you.
	Alright.
	Rodney, did you happen to be listening to that?
	No, I didn't.
	Well, I come across an entity that I spoke with and spoke with him telepathically.
	I don't believe you're in any fear of all, of any problems.
	I think if something's going to hurt you, it's going to hurt you right away.
	Well, not if it's trapped in the RID Pass 3200s.
	Well, I agree with you on that fact, but if it is trapped, he's just in a situation that he wants out of.
	Well, that's for doggone sure.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, without a lot of time, you're on the air with Rodney in Arkansas.
	Hi Art, I'm Dave from Fort Lauderdale.
	Hi Dave!
	We lose you here at 6 a.m.
	so I haven't been able to listen for the last hour.
	I'm not sure what's been coming up.
	Well, we've got Rodney on.
	Yeah, I realize that.
	Who's got Everett, sort of.
	Yes, I know that.
	I was wondering if it was mentioned before that it might be possible that he has a gray in his possession.
	Well, there is an ominous sign.
	Yeah, I thought about that whenever you said something about that pitcher.
	That has been brought up before?
	Well, I've been receiving kind of a sense of affirmation over the last several years about topics like this.
	For me, I think I would just ask for some kind of assistance and guidance and see what happens from there.
	Maybe it might be a good idea to see if we can summon some positive forces.
	I'm not sure what to do about it myself, but that's my suggestion.
	Well, you know what?
	We're about out of time here, and Rodney, I'm really afraid.
	I'm not going to give you any advice, because it might be the wrong advice.
	I really sense that you're between very much a rock and a hard place here.
	I'm not at all sure it would be safe for you to release it, and I'm not sure it's safe for you to keep it.
	Right.
	What is that?
	That's the clock.
	Clock, okay, good.
	It's six o'clock here, or close to it.
	Oh, that's right.
	That's right.
	You're a couple hours ahead, aren't you?
	A couple hours and apparently about four minutes.
	You need to reset your clock.
	So, I don't have any advice for you.
	I think, Rodney, that you should not let it go, at the very least, until your wife gets home.
	Right.
	Because you don't know a lot about this, do you?
	No, I don't.
	As another caller from Fort Smith said, we've got people here in the area that can handle that.
	I may look locally for help.
	All right, look, the audience will want a follow-up, so whatever it is you decide to do, and I put no pressure on you to do anything, would you email me or fax me so I know and the audience knows you're safe, and let us know what the disposition of Everett has been.
	Yeah, I will, and I'll send you that picture.
	I'll look forward to it.
	We all will.
	It's quite a dilemma.
	Good luck to you, Rodney.
	Well, thank you.
	Take care.
	All right, for copies of the show with Rodney and Everett, Or for copies of the show with Dr. Len Horowitz, call 1-800-917-4278.
	I swear, I think he's related to Mike Markham.
	Maybe not.
	1-800-917-4278.
	That's it from the high desert.

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