Malachi Martin, a Jesuit-turned-independent scholar with expertise in Semitic languages and Vatican affairs, discusses remote viewing’s dangers—like possession and psychological collapse—with Ed Dames, a former Pentagon officer who now runs SciTech. They explore how spiritual entities exploit the technique, with Dames trusting divine protection over faith. Martin critiques Pope John Paul II’s resistance to radical measures like abortion and contraception to curb population growth (5.2B in the 1990s, projected to 7.5B by 2030) while warning of a coming New World Order, where financial elites strip nations of sovereignty. His advice: prayer over speculation, salvation requires baptism but unbaptized souls aren’t doomed—just seek guidance. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good morning, good evening, as the case may be, across all these time zones, covering an area from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands in the west, all the way across flyover country to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, soon Puerto Rico, part of the way, south into South America, north to the Pole, and worldwide on the internet.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
I'm Mark Bell, and tonight, we're going to have Father Dr. Malachi Martin on.
Once again, what a pleasure.
And I've got a bit of a surprise for you.
You may recall that Dr. Martin was, we're going to figure out.
Now, you may recall that in the last program, Malachi was asked about remote viewing, and his response was that it was nitroglycerin for the soul.
After that program, I had a call from Ed Dames who said, you know, I'd like to have a word or two with Father Martin about that.
And so just as sort of a forethought, I guess, I spoke with Ed Dames earlier in the evening, and Father Martin has agreed to speak with Ed Dames.
So at midnight tonight, or in about an hour, we're going to do exactly that.
And that should be nitroglycerin for the radio.
It certainly will be interesting.
Will Pope John Paul II be forced to resign?
Opposing forces battle for power over pivotal issues.
Will there be a Mr. and Mrs. Pope?
Will women be ordained Catholic priests?
Are traditional Christians on the way back to the catacombs?
Will homosexual marriages be sanctioned?
The long-running covert warfare against Pope John Paul II, led by powerful members of his own hierarchy, including cardinals and bishops in Rome, in the U.S. and around the world, has broken into the open over the past five months.
It's going to end within the next 12.
The prize is control of one of the world's most powerful positions.
So predicts former Vatican insider and best-selling author Dr. Malachi Martin in his latest national bestseller, Windswept House.
It's a double-day book.
Already recognized as, quote, one of the most powerful books of the decade, end quote.
As in his earlier bestsellers, Vatican and the Final Conclave, Father Martin again draws aside the thick veil of secrecy that surrounds the world's oldest political power and vast financial empire known as the Vatican.
This time he unveils a deadly global war, a winner-take-all campaign aimed at the target of targets, control of the power cockpit of the world, a war for control of the papacy itself as a nerve center of the only up and running, self-sustaining, worldwide governing structure.
And this evening, I think what I'm going to do is let Dr. Martin speak for himself, but before he does, Doctor, welcome to the program.
Yes, my own background is this, that I was born 76 years ago in a remote corner of Kerry, Ireland, on the Atlantic, in a stonehouse.
And I was educated in Dublin, and then I entered the Jesuit order.
I became a Jesuit in 1939 on the eve of the war.
And I was a Jesuit until 1964.
And in the meantime, I did special studies.
I was trained as an expert in Semitic languages, Oriental art and archaeology, and in anthropology and theology, and getting doctorates out of all that sort of thing.
And I ended up as an expert, first of all, on Middle East questions, and gradually I was co-opted into helping a Pope called John XXIII, the Rolypoly Pope, Angelo Roncalli,
as he was called, and then his successor, Paul VI, who died in 1978, to be succeeded by John Paul II, with an interim Pope of 34 days old, John Paul I. But in the year 1963,
64, I went to Paul VI, whom I knew very well, and asked him for permission to leave the Jesuits, to keep my vow of celibacy, but to forsake my vow of poverty so I could earn my own living, and also forsake my vow of obedience so that I wouldn't have to obey people whose policies I did not like and whose theology I suspected.
I'm not being orthodox enough from my mind anyway, whatever, because one must finally rely on one's own judgment because you'll be judged only on your own judgment, not on what anybody else says.
And I came to New York in that year, 1965, and I've been here ever since for my sins and my happiness.
I became an American citizen, the ritual time five years later.
And I was wondering if you knew the Cardinal, if you ever met him, and if you had anything to say to those folks in Chicago who surely are going to miss him.
Well, I'll tell you, all death is sort of a symbol of human defeat.
You know, life ends.
And this life ended rather abruptly.
We did know that the Cardinal was ill for quite a while, and I think they said pancreatic cancer, the ultimate identified cause.
But it was a quick end because we did not expect it to be so sudden.
And as in many cases like that, it's overnight almost.
He disappears into the cold of eternity, as the French says, Le foie eternelle, into the cold eternal, although eternity itself needn't be so cold as all that, if it's lit up by the love of God or the fires of hell, whichever feeling one ends up with.
So it's always a defeat.
It's always a sense of loss and that sort of thing.
Carl Bernardine was a very distinguished cleric.
He came from South Carolina and he ended up in the most populous and important Roman Catholic community of Chicago in his final apotheosis, in his final development.
He is missed because of the central position he occupied.
And that position should be summed up, frankly and honestly, as being the man in charge of a huge machine.
Yes, he himself indeed would like to have been Pope.
And in the last big public statement of his, which amazed a lot of people, which we'll describe briefly in a moment, he sounded a papal note.
That was a press conference and declaration he held a couple of weeks ago only, in which he proposed that Catholics should seek a new ground of unity, as he called it.
And this is astounding art because for Catholics traditionally, since the time of the Emperor Constantine, the ground for unity has always been the papacy itself, the leader.
And this time Cardinal Bernin was stepping out.
And his fellow cardinals in the United States, especially Cardinal Law of Boston and O'Connor of New York, and the man in Philadelphia, the cardinal there, they disagreed with what he said because they recognized immediately the papal conclave character of that statement.
What Bernardine was doing that day was stating what he thought the church should become.
It was a papal speech.
And I think that by that time he knew that he was doomed to die soon.
But still in all he made a pitch for it because he did belong and was the leader of a faction amongst the cardinals, which is a very powerful faction.
And that faction would rather diminish the importance of the papacy completely and make it much more an affair of consensus amongst the great cardinals and bishops of the church.
So that was his contribution to it, and it stirred a lot of ire in Rome, and it stirred a lot of controversy here.
Now, then as regards his achievement as such, one cannot say that Catholicism flourished during his reign as Cardinal Archbishop of Chicago.
Only one out of every six Catholics goes to Mass in Chicago.
That compares rather badly with the national number.
It's not as bad as that.
And then several churches were closed in his time.
Catholicism as a mode of devotion to God and to Christ and to the angels and saints, which is the essence of Catholicism, did not flourish under Cardinal Bernardine.
We can't fool ourselves that it did.
But he was a great public leader in the sense that he took a lead and he managed very carefully and skillfully, with almost an extraordinary touch, he managed that very powerful body of men, 280, 280 of them, called the American Bishops, or the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, the NCCB, with its political arm, the NCCC.
That's the political arm of the bishops in America.
He managed that.
And he also, during his time, he forced the hand of John Paul II in several points.
And he forced them by using skillfully the Vatican's dependence on American money, American contributions from the bishops, to keep the Vatican out of the red.
And in that he was joined by hundreds of organizations, and that's our business, proposing the same thing.
And by the way, the Clinton administration itself has decided and declared that it itself discourages the idea of any action on the part of the Supreme Court of the United States favoring a doctor-assisted suicide.
How would you doctor argue against somebody who would say, look, I'm in the last stages of a horrible disease.
I'm wracked by pain.
My life is no longer functional in any way that I can measure or want to measure, and I wish not to suffer out these last few days and wish to take my own life or have somebody assist me in that process, whatever the case may be.
In other words, the argument of it's my life, but whose life is it anyway?
The difficulty in answering a question like that, which is to be answered finally, in all honesty, is that this cannot be regarded isolatedly as a personal problem because unless one is totally an atheist and one does not believe in any sense that God has any right or just has a say in anything or that God even exists.
The difficulty is also that what it would open up by way, and even the American government in its comments to the Supreme Court is of that opinion, and Bernardine was too, and most of the organizations, hundreds of them that have communicated with the Supreme Court, say the same thing.
It opens a Pandora's box.
And finally, there's this fact about it, that you can nowadays, within the limits of medical practice and medical ethics, you can obtain palliatives for your pain, which will diminish the stress of it all.
And I've always understood, I may be wrong, I've always understood it, that those palliatives, those drugs used to diminish pain, gradually reduce vitality.
And it don't exactly hasten death, but they don't promote life either.
But they do, by diminishing pain, they bring you closer in a more comfortable way.
And finally, you see, for Christian art is a terribly important thing, that any drop, any moment of human suffering has an eternal value in the life of the sufferings of the man God on his cross on Calvary.
And that, I know, is a hard doctrine, but because Christians believe they're here to prepare for heaven, not to establish a paradise on earth, and if the paradise ceases, then they can wipe themselves out.
If I have pain, if I have a toothache, if I have a breach of birth with a child, if I lose a child, if I have arthritis, if I get a disease, it can be and should be used to merge with the sufferings, the meritorious sufferings of Jesus Christ.
That's the basic Christian doctrine.
For those who are not Christian, I know it's not much consolation, but it still operates in their case.
If I have the occasion and the time and the convenience, it's all a matter of convenience.
If they're calling from, say, Anchorage, Alaska, it's one thing.
If they're calling from 64th and Madison Avenue in New York, it's something else, of course.
That's near where I live as, you know.
But depending on those ordinary human factors, which sometimes determine our faith, depending on those, there is a spiritual treatment, spiritual, not therapy, it's the wrong word to use,
it's a spiritual treatment which can resolve peacefully and successfully the struggle one has with one's sexuality, homosexuality or heterosexuality, or transsexuality for that matter.
But that's a very delicate spiritual operation that must be done with authority and skill.
But it can be done.
It is not an irreparable and unchangeable situation.
No, it's possible.
But the one thing, the one thing that the person involved must get in their mind is it's not a therapy.
It's not the work of a therapist as such.
It doesn't rely on psychological or psychophysical factors, although it treats those factors because they're involved in all sexuality.
Spiritual understanding was also this, that there is no doubt in my mind at all as a priest, and now I've been priesting since 1954 steadily, before that I was in training.
There's no doubt about it.
There is aid, help.
There is aid, succor, in the shape of what is called in Christian theology the grace of God.
The special supernatural help which does repair any damage that our faculties have suffered through living.
And our faculties do suffer, unfortunately.
The way we live and what is done to us, you know, if I'm weird by, I say, a father who is a drug addict and a mother who's a lush, I'm going to be damaged.
On the last program, you said during the next three, three and a half years or so, keep your eyes to the sky.
That something, and Doctor, I must tell you, with the program I did last night, with so many other programs, with the remote viewers, all these different people, American natives, they're all saying roughly the same thing.
You know, if I could break into you, of course, that betrays my Irish blood.
We are always interrupting each other.
Why aren't we?
To improve what the person is saying.
If I could say this much to you, no matter what, along the entire spectrum of belief, from a fuddy-duddy Roman Catholic priest like me, over to something radically different, radically different in belief, there's a common sensation today that we are passing through a window, as people have the expression, from one era, from one condition, human condition, to another condition.
And half of our confusion and our squabbling and our impatience today and our fears, above all our fears, because fear is a very dominant factor today in public and private life and personal life, that is due to the fact that we all sense, without being able to pin it down authoritatively, that we are indeed passing through a window of opportunity.
Yes, there is a thing going on, and it cannot be laughed at.
I remember Freud in 1938 publishing a statement in Vienna.
I followed it because my daddy was a doctor.
I was a young man of 17, but I was engrossed in studies like this.
And he's saying that why is it, he said it at one of these psychoanalytic meetings that was held in Vienna, just pre-war Vienna.
By that time, Vienna was under the grip of Hitler with the Anschluss and the Nazis.
Why is it he said that the majority of you, addressing his fellow psychiatrists, are reporting that a vast majority of your patients are tortured by dreams of barbed wire and bloody bodies.
And like a lot of other people, having found something valuable in nature, he proceeded to imagine what it was.
And that was not scientific.
And he went beyond the data.
But there is a consciousness amongst us all, in spite of our differences due to everything, from sex to color to shape to race to education, that there is something big taking place.
The phrase is, we're passing through a window of opportunity into what we do not know.
And that is confusing because the old world, the one we knew, has passed away.
There's no doubt about it.
We're constructing something or something is being constructed of us, of us, of us.
It's very disturbing because that arouses up the good old territorial imperative, as Robert Audrey used to call it, but it also rouses up this fear of the alien.
Art, actually, you know, and you've got a source of information that most people haven't got with your marvelous syndication and your own intelligence.
There's no doubt about it.
We all know that the big change we sense and are afraid of, in that sense, because we don't know what it is, is in our spirit, in our human spirit as such.
We know there are forces molding it, shaping it as the consensus of a race of people and not merely five billion different consciousnesses.
And sometimes we like the result, and sometimes we don't like it.
But we know it's in spirit.
And by spirit, we mean something other than my flesh.
The skin on my hand and the color of my face and the length of my hair and the timbre of my voice and the look in my eye and the way I walk, what I do.
First of all, I'm a man of God in the sense that I'm supposed to be devoted to God's glory.
I'm a sinner like everybody else, but I do belong to God by avocation, by formal profession.
I have never yet doubted the divinity of Jesus.
I've never doubted the existence of heaven and of hell and of purgatory.
I've never doubted the value of his cross to solve life's problems.
I've never doubted the creation of the world by God.
No, I've never doubted that.
What I have had by way of difficulties were the governing of my own passions and my own fears, above all my fears.
Because I remember my grandfather saying to me, if I could be personal, he said once when I expressed some fears, I was about 18 at that time, and about to leave home forever and not go back, he said, measure your love of God by the quantum, use that word, the quantum of fear in your heart.
There's the general fear which has a little note of panic in it.
And that is something you have to eradicate.
Because that produces confusion and errors in judgment and mistakes and therefore failure.
And it's painful in a very deep sense.
And it doesn't make you more cautious.
It makes you stupid.
Because you make mistakes if you're afraid.
Self-control in that sense is necessary.
There is a fear, though, of God, which is respect for him.
He did make us from nothing according to our beliefs.
But again, in all this, I'm a Christian and a Catholic, so you'll forgive it when it's biased or not biased, but it's one-sided, there's no doubt about that.
It's the Christian point of view.
But it says that, that we do depend on him.
And if it comes to the point of my rebellion against him for the sake of my own passions, for the sake of my own ambitions, for the sake of my own hates and desires, he can dole out to me a punishment beyond belief, beyond imagining, and that for all eternity.
And that's a very healthy balance sometimes in life when life does extend to you something which looks terribly enticing.
It introduces a balance, not always listened to when you're 20 and 30, but when you hit 40, 50, 60, 70 and face the 80s, you suddenly realize that there is a Lord of life and he finally is the Lord of everything.
So that's sort of a fear, yes, but not craven fear, Michael, Art, not craven fear.
Father, the Pope recently said, surprisingly, shockingly for a lot of Catholics and not for some, that evolution is more than just a theory, seeming to affirm the process of evolution, and that was quite a shock for many.
Not at this, in my knowledge of the Holy Father, knowing what he is, we'd better be very clear about this.
This is a personal opinion of the Pope.
not in any way connected with beliefs.
He is, for various political as well as ideological reasons, in favor of regarding the...
The reason I regard it as a metaphysical myth is this, that we know that we have now reached the end of the fossil record.
We know that.
There's no other fossil record to search any longer.
And in that fossil record, since the time of Charles Darwin in 1850, we have not found one, but not one sign of evolution from the point of view of a missing link, linking phylum to phylum, primate to primate.
There's no such thing.
It doesn't exist.
And now we know it doesn't exist.
So evolution is a nice myth because it explains things.
But when you look as a scientist for the proof of it, concrete proof, there ain't no proof there.
That's the difficulty.
So the Pope has made of his own an opinion like that, but he has a political reason as well as an ideological reason for making that statement.
Political reason is that the more powerful cardinals in his Roman court, in his Vatican, and the more powerful academicians in his church whom he has fomented, by the way, they are all evolutionists.
And therefore he wants to play it very safe with them.
He does belong to what is called, a bit too long to explain like this, unless you want to dump, which we can do, he belongs himself to the French school of thought in this matter.
He's very sympathetic.
By the way, Poland has always been sympathetic with France and France with Poland on account of the help that France gave to Poland while it was in the grip of Russia or Prussia or Germany.
There was a great connection between Paris and Warsaw always.
And the French School of Thought, which is a very, very brilliant school of thought in the 17th, 18th, 19th, and early 20th century, has a huge influence on Polish intellectuals.
And the Pope is a creature of that, intellectually.
You see, this poor man, I say that with great sympathy for him, he has to deal with the geopolitics of faith.
That is the fact that the nations of the earth are the children of God and are supposedly, theoretically, and they may call it Catholicism, they're under the mandate of Christ's salvation.
At the same time, he has to deal with the geopolitics of reason, the fate of nations.
And he did that, for instance, in Poland, where he did, he was the instrument with Ronnie Reagan, the government mainly.
He was the instrument of making the first breach in the war of the Soviet Union, which led finally to its dismemberment and the rest is history.
So he has that double function.
And his agony, actually, has been a real agony.
His agony has been the balancing of those two forms of geopolitics.
And no, it says, I'm not trying to butter you up or flatter you.
It's such a profound question because, look, you know, in your ordinary life, passions comes in.
You can't be reasonable, follow reason all the time.
Your passions come in.
Your prejudices, your form of biases, the people that were nice to you and the people you loved, and then the people who were unnice to you and that you didn't like or perhaps hated sometimes.
And then you've got national and ethnic and cultural prejudices.
All that comes in.
And any deviation from reason, any deviation from justice, divine and human, is wrong.
It's a sin in itself.
It can be forgiven, God will forgive all these things and cleanse them all by the blood of Jesus.
But it's a fact that we do err.
And the Pope sitting where he does is more easily guilty of malseasons in high office than I ever will be, because I was never Pope and never will be.
And sometimes both the present Pope and his big mentor, Cardinal Stefan Wyszynski, who's now dead, who is called the Fox of Europe, and who drew circles around the Soviets in his day, by the way.
And they never caught him.
They tried to do anything to him, including kill him.
But he and the present Pope, as cardinals in Poland long before he became Pope, had to make compromises with the Marxists.
And it was dangerous, and it seared his soul, and it left an indelible mark.
Mark, Art, I have always wondered all my life, which are deeper, the wounds of reality that scar my body and my mind, or the deeper wounds to my very being from my own errors and sins.
With that in mind, here is a man who did remote viewing for the U.S. military and now does it in civilian life for a company, his company, called SciTech.
And he has been a guest on this program many times.
I feel like follow my leader in this matter because I'm purely and simply a non-technician as regards psychiatry or psychology or therapy or anything like that.
I'd like to share some of my own experiences the area of remote viewing and spirituality.
Let me give you just a little background about myself as a military officer.
And later on, if you have any questions about my religious backgrounds, we can get you this.
I was both the operations and the training officer for these techniques that I refer to as remote viewing.
My company refers to them as technical remote viewing, which are a very precise Way of extracting details about a target, a person, place thing, or event.
And I essentially civilianized the company.
I took the best members of the military team and now employ them as consultants in my company.
And I teach civilians how to do this.
And so it's now my vocation.
We work as a team against very significant types of targets, for instance, the FBI's Unabomber or the TWA Flight 800 disaster, to attempt to pinpoint the locations of people and things in that regard.
When these techniques were first used within the Pentagon, they were construed by many senior officers to be associated with the occult, as you might guess, and probably have heard about.
My mentor lives in New York City, Ingoswan, and you may or may not have ever met him.
He himself wondered when he discovered the breakthrough techniques that we use.
Prior to the techniques that we use, only natural psychics, very gifted individuals could be utilized for military intelligence collection missions prior to his breakthrough.
But he himself, when he developed these techniques, wondered, wondered aloud to me whether or not these were associated with something that was dark or the shadow.
And so that was the beginning of my concerns also.
And we were a human use team.
There was a board that watched, ostensibly, watched us to see if there would be any deleterious effects on our psyches during the use and the application of these techniques.
It was an experimental team.
Well, the board was not that effective.
And in fact, what happened was we found that in cases where individuals were already mentally unbalanced, we did run into some serious problems.
If I attempt to teach someone how to open one's mind up, I'll use a loose term, then, and they are not balanced individually, physically or mentally stable, we do run into serious problems.
And if that is partially what you are alluding to as nitroglycerin for the soul, then you are correct in that regard.
However, for individuals that are balanced, they can perceive many, many things, including turning this light onto the very deepest, darkest, scariest aspect of all, their own minds.
And if they have the courage to look, they can achieve a great lead in spirituality if they choose.
But to get back to the subject at hand, I have noticed on the part of my seniors, including a major general, a two-star general, and a very high intelligence executive, that remote viewing, these techniques became replacements for religion.
These were people who were in their 50s and 60s who essentially were men without gods.
It was a spiritual vacuum in their lives.
And when these techniques became available to them, either as utilizers or as practitioners, they completely lost their balance and perspective.
I no longer require, I feel I do not require faith.
I am no longer what one would call a man of faith.
And that is because I don't feel that I need faith anymore.
I have absolute trust now.
I've reached a point by looking at certain nooks and crannies spiritually with the techniques that I employ and have learned that I'm so trusting.
When you can see things around you, perceive things around you that are divine and demonic and put them in their places, their respective places, then there are no dark areas.
Individuals who feel presences around them or ostensibly within them.
What these techniques can do, and they are difficult to work.
It takes approximately 45 minutes of pen on paper with a disciplined remote viewer to gain any information whatsoever.
And it takes many more hours to gain a good pattern of what we are dealing with, but its patterns are accurate.
We're able to take that information and determine if, for instance, a presence is angelic, demonic, or somewhere in between, something like a diva or an elemental, all of the various sort and sundries of both religious realities or created beings and material or semi-material beings and their intents.
And that is a very, very useful tool for a modern age where there are so much obfuscations.
It can make life complex, interesting, but in certain regards quite simple.
In fact, I listened to part of one of your programs on Art Show, and I thought if I would be with Father Martin during one of his exorcisms, I could assist greatly by using these methods and techniques, especially employ it as a team, because we do medical diagnostics, to determine whether or not you would, of course, endorse these.
There's another question.
Endorse these techniques.
To determine what we are dealing with, whether it's a psychological trauma, the source of that trauma.
Was it multiple trauma?
Was it trauma over a long period of time?
Or are we dealing with an attachment or attachment?
In fact, in the early days, when I researched many ways that we could use occult, formerly heretofore the appellation was the occult techniques as intelligence collection tools.
When I looked directly into the eyes of someone who was channeling something, you could see certain things.
And I could see that I was being lied to.
I could see that I was being told everything I wanted to be told.
And in subsequent years, after learning these techniques, I was able to really gain a complete appreciation for what these attachments were, the nature of them.
And that became quite fascinating.
And they are desperate to maintain that attachment, as you already know.
But that exposure, that exposure to the knowledge, to the light of truth and awareness, it essentially drives away many of these shadowy forces.
And when people who have been, I'll say, plagued all their life by fear that there's something following me or something around me, sometimes what we have found, what I have found in my work, is that thing, that so-called shadowy agent that has been tailing a person throughout his or her life may sometimes be angelic in nature and not demonic.
It's delicate, but it's repeatable, and the procedures are standardized.
They just need to use their professional tools.
But what I wanted also to say is the connection with God does not go away during the process of remote viewing.
One's soul is not lost.
Your soul is already lost or saved, regardless of using these techniques.
The connection is still there, and you take it with you when you go into this almost, it used to be an altered state.
That was quite a different modality.
But here, one simply turns their attention to an idea.
I'll use that roughly.
So one's attention is half focused upon writing down information on a piece of paper and half focused on something that is in, for lack of a better word, one's collective unconscious.
And yet it's given me more than I could possibly it's given me answers to many different things.
And it's allowed me, most of all, when I wanted to give back the gift, when I wanted to serve, I prayed for about six months to make sure that I knew I couldn't return the gift that I had been given, the answers to all questions.
Well, I was too naive to know that.
Every time I tried to return a gift, I had received dump trucks of gifts back.
So I changed my strategy and just asked to serve.
And what this tool allowed me to do was to precisely determine, well, it took about six months actually to make sure I was correct, how, how to serve, how to serve my God.
And that's what this tool gave me, the precise details of what to do, how to serve, rather than just a general sense.
And that's why one of the reasons I'm so grateful to Ingoswan.
I'm going to let you continue with this when we get back in a moment.
My guests are Dr. Malachi Martin and SciTech Ed Dames.
Maybe we'll talk a bit about the nature of the soul itself.
I'm Mark Bell, and you're listening to the American CBC Radio Network.
Stay right where you are.
From a spiritual perspective, you would think indeed the odd couple, but maybe not.
We're going to find out.
Back now to Dr. Malachi Martin and Major Ed Dames.
And Dr. Martin, I wanted to let you finish what you had started saying and then perhaps explain to us, if you would, why you think remote viewing is nitroglycerin for the soul.
The original statement I made with Arthur last time about this being not relisted for the soul, because, and I think you might even understand it, I do understand this, it is, if it's not done with the proper motivation and not done as it were scientifically,
that is, with proper methods and checks and balances, it can disrupt the soul, it can blow it up, it can cause an explosion in us.
We, from my side, from the point of view of exorcists, and that's when I say we, I really mean that, those engaged in this work, found that those who did remote viewing or channeling without any of those safeguards that you just described,
that they underwent very severe disturbances and disruptions of their personality, their normal persona.
And they also had manifestations that could only be explained in the light of Luciferian intervention in human things.
The theory or the belief behind it is that there is the supernatural order and there is the natural order.
The natural order is what you see, the flesh and bones and blood and earth and metal around us and wood and material things.
And then there's the supernatural order which is the existence of God and all that belongs to God.
And in between there's what we call the middle plateau.
And it's on that plateau that these powers can be exercised, the powers of the soul that apparently can be sharpened and developed.
And my language is pre-scientific and pre-medical and pre-psychiatric yet, and you'll appreciate that, because I don't even purport to be a psychiatrist or a therapist of any kind.
I'm just an egoist and a priest.
Now, when I said it was a natural discipline of the soul, I meant when somebody enters or tries to enter the middle plateau and deal with such powers and faculties and develop them without the proper intention or the proper controls and checks and balances.
And the phenomena that take place in people who do that are those that attract us as a group of exorcists and that demand or require, from our point of view, require the attention that we bestow on it with formal exorcism as such.
Now, the one more thing I want to add in just as a tabulum, as material for talk, for discussion is this, that the difficulty is that the supernatural, as Christians conceived it and still conceive it, is totally unimaginable.
There is no human concept and therefore no human word that can describe it.
Number one.
And number two, it is imperceptible to a man without a special grace from God.
He can't even perceive it.
So much so that if a man has not got faith, he just can't imagine it.
If he loses faith, he does not know he's lost it, because if he knew he lost it, he'd have it back.
The mere fact of knowing you've lost it is a perception itself belonging to faith.
It's complicated as a concept, but that's the reality we have found.
Now, the only practical application outside of religious peace and a calm for people who come for egotism, the only practical example was, strangely enough, for some army officers, purely as private citizens, who came for help because they had delved into the middle plateau and came away very disturbed.
Then there are the normal people who use Ouija boards or who use remote channeling or remote viewing and they entered an area where they were subject to terrible onslaughts from an angel of light,
in that technical sense of the angel of light, and the only succor we could give them was precisely through these ceremonies, which are not therapies at all, because necrocism is not a therapy, it's a confrontation.
That may not throw much light, but it will explain to you why I called it the nitrocern of the soul.
And everything else is absolutely enlightening for me that you've said, and I presume into the harper of all those ideas, as the expression goes, would go the entire question of the green bum programming and the summation that somebody like Corey Hammond drew up for the American Psychiatric Association for NPD,
And I am familiar somewhat with operationally, with the idea of the middle plateau.
Channeling.
The more that we have found one gives up one's own identity, let me go back to an operational perspective again.
I want to emphasize that this was, this evolved, the techniques I used as a military intelligence gathering tool.
And that's important.
It is.
When we looked at the phenomenon of channeling, I already mentioned some of the characteristics that I, behavioral characteristics that I observed, it became very evident to me operationally that channelers never took responsibility for their work or their lack of success or their lack of detail.
It was always well it was somebody else, Manny Mo or Jack, that did that.
And it's not my fault that the information is incorrect.
That was an interesting thing.
Another, the most interesting aspect was, of course, that the channeler gives up one's own identity, turns their identity over to something unknown, something that has convinced them that it's benign in most cases.
But technical remote viewing is essentially a mind tool where we are fully conscious and fully awake.
Even in the early days of the programs where the natural psychics in the Army were employed for intelligence collection purposes, that was an altered state.
And there were some dangers in an altered state.
When we would send, I use that term loosely, an officer to a remote location.
There were instances where in navigating that middle plateau where these people were subject to great angst because they ran into other entities, so to speak, on the way.
And because, and this caused a tremendous amount of grief, we actually had two individuals have heart attacks and employing these techniques.
It was very non-pressing to those of us in the unit.
We settled on to these mind techniques rather than mind-body techniques.
And became, indeed, when used correctly, they became almost a library card to essentially just an endless amount of information.
One can do with that information what one chooses to do, act in any way one chooses to do upon the information.
But nevertheless, it's there to be downloaded.
Sometimes, as in the case of at least one of my former students and in the case of another Army officer who has recently authored a book, these people started to lean towards association with the very entities that they discovered in the middle plateau.
And so it became a quad, they began to engage in what one could term a quasi-channeling behavior.
Well, quasi-channeling is as good as channeling.
Once you have something has its hook in you, it's got its hook in you, and you may be in the shadows, but it's got you.
And that is why one sees, begins to see, a behavioral change.
Frenetic, these individuals become frenetic, lose their balance, make statements that appear incoherent.
And as you well know, and that kind of behavioral change is a red flag.
And when these individuals start to give up their decision-making ability and turn their minds over to something else, or their minds become completely imbued with ego, we lose them.
The majority of people who come to me to learn technical remote viewing are commonplace individuals that are balanced.
They're very interested and enthusiastic.
And we can spot individuals who are nowadays, we have to, because we've had so many disasters, not so many, but when the disasters occurred in the past, whether on the military team or in the case of one or two civilians, former students, they were real disasters.
Another thing that we see, if an individual just cannot get away from, for instance, conspiracy theories, conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy, sometimes that is an indication that someone is perhaps a paranoid schizophrenic.
You see, he, I mean, as sort of, as his ordinary business, he laid out a system of checks and balances from the point of view of intention and method and technique and an intimate knowledge of the various entities that do people this region in which he enters and works.
And that is very different from the loosey-goosey, if I can use that expression, approach to opening my mind and receiving whatever comes into it.
But faith, therefore, on your lips meant something else other than what I mean by faith.
Because obviously, if you do depend on angelic protection and divine protection, you have what, in classical terms, would be called religious faith.
Do you understand me?
Yes, but it's not so.
I have no words to describe this, but you've made several acts of what would be called theological faith throughout your entire discussion of this.
And you have a certain almost childlike dependence on their protection to preserve you, because that's why you venture into this field unafraid in that sense.
You have certain fears or you take care of certain things out of respect for your enemy or for the things that could deceive you.
What I meant by that was that I can perceive what these things are.
And in the past, when I was a young man, before I was exposed and imbued and learned to be a professional in the techniques that I used, I did not know what these were.
And then I needed what I called, in my classical terms, faith.
I had to rely upon a higher power, You know, my God, to protect me from the darkness.
But now I can see into the darkness.
I can shine this light in there and see, aha, over here is this, over there is that.
Now, I only want to introduce a thing which I've talked about before, which I can never put exactly.
It is the supernatural.
The supernatural is the by essence in the Christian tradition and in the Jewish tradition, too.
But since I'm a Christian, I better speak authoritatively only about that.
This idea of the supernatural is disturbing in one sense, but consoling in another sense, because the Christian idea is that the supernatural itself is totally alien to human nature, but has come to human nature to elevate it, and therefore to protect it in this field, especially in this field, but in the normal field of human behavior too.
But that it's alien to it in the sense that I myself cannot of myself, just with my human powers, attain the wisdom I need in order to avoid collision and damage and harm.
That's the idea of the supernatural in Christianity.
It could, given merely the words he has used and the phrases he has used and what he has said, I find no trace of the things that betray the innate weakness of fantasy or pride or self-reliance.
I find a godliness in it and that is one of the keys to it.
He should be protected against it because the grace, supernatural grace is there.
And all I'm doing is saying that that has been with him apparently all along because he cited his own career as a young man and then getting into the dark corners and getting the light to see the lurking dangers that were there, to be able to detect an angel of light, which is really the shadow itself pretending and trying to deceive him.
So yes, the answer is yes.
He can do that with impunity.
But then that would mean that if I were to be fully and completely thorough in that answer, I'd have to sit down with Ed and say to him, all right, now tell me how you pray and how you think and how you behave and how you live and your morality, etc.
And I have no intention of doing that to Ed because he wouldn't do it to me in public anyway.
Well, all right, back now to Dr. Valakai Martin and Major Ed Dames.
And Dr. Martin, is remote viewing something that you would not participate in or as described, is it something that you feel would have value and something you might even try yourself?
Whatever about trying myself, because I'm not a technician or haven't been trained in this, I don't regard it as essentially dangerous.
And in fact, I think at this stage, what we should do is sketch out where the discussion has arrived.
Major Dames has outlined a very careful and tried and tested, I was going to use the word technique, but he will forgive me if it's not exactly that, and if that is not the exact word,
but it's a method of exploring and remote viewing, especially with view to intelligence, military and I suppose civilian, and also as regards human behavior.
Now, and he does, he has pointed out that they have learnt by bitter lessons that certain types of people, certain characters are simply not fitted to be brought along this way because of the dire results that take place.
And he didn't expand on that, and there's no need to.
We can imagine what he means by it.
The position of the exorcist, where we come in, is somebody who has gone off the rails, as it were.
Somebody who has not merely become frenetic, but does seem to be possessed, as the classical term has it.
And in his terms, it is that the shadow has become completely all-powerful over a particular individual.
And the simple technique we use is a technique of confrontation between the exorcist and the exorcist, the possessed person, the presumably a possessed person, and that's the initial problem to find out, is the person really possessed or is it something else.
And the confrontation between the exorcist and the exorciste and an exercise of authority over the shadow and forcing the shadow by the authority of God, of Christ, to depart.
That's roughly the area we have covered.
And by the way, I must ask a simple question of spelling.
I was going to ask you that perhaps we could corroborate in the future, or is there a case that an exorcist case in the past that you found intractable or irresolvable that perhaps my company could turn its attention to?
There may well be, and I think we should talk about that between the two of us outside of the public radio.
But an answer to Belle's question, no.
I'm not even cherry about entrusting myself to the methods and the technology I've used because it seems to me, Major Ed, and I'm speaking as a priest here and as an exorcist, it seems to me that you are overshadowed by a godliness, which I can only ascribe to my Savior.
Now, I'm using my Christian language, and you'll forgive that.
And there's a whole elaboration of that about the humanity of our Lord Jesus and what he has done and what he does and the power that he gives and the authority it gives.
But that's simply, those are the details of it all.
So, Arch, to conclude, my answer to your question, no.
I would have really illimitable trust in the methods that Major Ed James uses and the techniques.
Mr. Art, may I interrupt you and say that the head of the Presidential Foreign Intelligence Board, when briefed on the existence of our program, stated after you want sheet white, that man should not know these things until he dies.
It's a funny inversion of what happened in the garden, according to Genesis.
It really is.
You know, you shall be of God, as if it was a temptation.
But you see, Art, if I could break in there, I really do think that this is a charism that has been developed in Ed Dames and his associates, if he has them, who are like him.
And it is the work of God, because it does enlighten us as to the shadowy personages that inhabit the middle plateau and that entrap people so that finally they end up on my doorstep in a pitiable condition.
And I remember being approached by some members of the armed forces, let me put it very vaguely in the 80s, and their complaint was, and Ed will understand this completely better than I do myself even, look, we have trained officers in certain techniques, and we find that they have now developed symptoms that you describe in your last book about possession.
It's been my experience, Father Martin, that those individuals who have taken lives in combat, the more lives that a soldier has taken, there seems to be a storage area.
It has denial.
And when one is by vocation or by order partakes of things that are spiritual, all this comes out of the closet.
And I have seen soldiers break into pieces and stay broken because they've taken a human life.
I was trying to tell them the condition of the present Pope in relation to the papacy.
In other words, the book says the following.
For some time now, actually for about five to eight years, it's hard to pin it on, there's been a movement amongst the more powerful servants of the papacy, cardinals and bishops, in Europe and in America, to persuade the present Pope to resign and retire, which he can do legally, by the way.
The law of the church says that a pope may resign, and he needs give no reason to anybody on the face of the earth why he resigns.
Now, there has been a pressure on him to resign, and since he turned the age 75 and is now heading, he is in his 77th year and in very bad health, the pressures are enormous on him, so much so that the document they drew up to illustrate their wishes, and this document was in his hands towards the end of the 80s and the beginning of the 90s.
He has yielded so far to this extent that he's drawn up another document which pertains to some legislation he would like to pass before he dies concerning the health of popes.
In other words, supposing a pope becomes a vegetable, supposing he is rendered totally incapable of movement, physical movement, supposing he goes mad, supposing there's dementia there.
He has not signed it because he would trap himself if he did, because he'd be giving rules the rules that should apply to him.
However, the pressure on him has been very big to resign.
And their motives for doing so is this.
They say we have such problems nowadays that only a more forward-looking, more liberal-minded Pope can really collaborate with the forces amongst human society to stave off disasters.
They're talking about two disasters.
They're talking about what they call the population explosion.
We have, what is it, 5.2 billion now.
We're heading, they say, for 7.5 in the year 2030, and so unso we're unsovat.
And that's the number one problem.
And number two problem is education.
The first problem of explosion, they say, can be curbed by abortion, contraception, sterilization.
And sterilization is already being used in third world countries, manufactured by Canadian and American companies.
Now, of course, the present Pope is absolutely adamant.
I mean, you mentioned abortion, contraception, sterilization, and he's airborne with the indignation.
So they say, but we, all right, you can cattle about abortion, but anyway, contraception, can't we lighten up on that to some degree?
Because even the officially blessed form of family limitation by Roman Catholics called natural family planning implies a certain contraceptive mentality.
Certainly.
So that's the difficulty.
But he will say, no, so they say we need somebody who is more receptive.
Secondly, then, within the church itself, we do need, I think today, the modern mind does say it would be better if a priest had the option of celibacy or the option of marriage.
And then thirdly, there is the phenomenon of our age.
One of the big phenomena is the rise of women as such.
Feminism in the good and the bad sense, because there's a good and a bad sense to everything.
And the fact is, why shouldn't women be ordained priests?
Why should it be all male?
Does priesthood depend on testicles?
Pardon my language, but that's briefly the argument that comes down.
Is biology destiny in this manner?
So they say that we need some, we need a forward-looking man who will be young enough and perceptive enough to start moving on these fronts.
Because in that case, then we can collaborate with the vast movement outside by very powerful and flourishing men and organizations for the control of food and the better nourishment.
So the awful figures today for the malnutrition.
And I forget the actual figures, but it's frightening.
He must have children that suffer from malnutrition.
So the pressure on him is great for that.
He has refused so far, obviously, because he hasn't resigned.
I do feel that the pressure has been so great on him, and his health now is so precarious, that it is now 50-50%.
By the way, I'm not a betting man.
As I said, told me before, I lost a few dollars on the Yankees a couple of weeks ago.
My betting is not exactly blessed by God.
But I do feel that it is now 50-50% possible that within one calendar year we would have another Pope.
He may resign or he may die because his health is precarious.
He has Parkinson's disease.
There's no doubt about that.
And by the way, if he's accompanied by episodic dementia in its early stages, but again, I'm not authoritative, but I'm told this.
He has also an osteoporosis, and he breaks things easily if he falls or hits against things.
Now, by the way, the pressure is big because it comes not merely from his own people, his own colleagues, as it were, bishops and cardinals, it comes from very powerful organizations who share the same opinion as those colleagues.
Or the colleagues share the same opinion.
For instance, there's no doubt about it that the thinking of the World Wildlife Fund, in this matter, beginning with Prince Philip of Edinburgh and go on down along, or of the Ford Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation, the Pew and Draper Funds, they all think the same thing.
They're all very keen on controlling the population and they agree with those who would like to see a change of Pope.
And everybody acknowledges the Pope's achievements and his work for peace and his compassion.
We all know that.
But they say we need a younger man now.
The book is about that and about the pressures on John Paul.
And to start with, let me ask you, I had no idea such a document existed.
Would it not, in a way, for him to hold on way past the point where this document would have taken effect had it been signed, for him to hold on and then sign it at the very end, would that not be, in essence, morally wrong, if not sinful?
What grade of immorality, how far it's lenient or mortal, is something else.
And I find it very hard to decide that in the person of my Pope.
And he is my Pope, and I am a priest of his church, and I'm a practicing one.
I say Mass every morning and all that, the usual priest stuff.
Priest behavior.
You know, I don't want to make a big thing out of it, but it's very sacred for me.
It's my ehuram, it's my life.
But yes, it would be reprehensible because then he's putting his own personal position in preference to the good of the universal church, if the good of the universal church would be served by his resigning.
And that's the crucial decision he has to make.
And the book actually ends on that crucial note of doubt in his mind.
All right, I want to ask you about those three areas, that is population, the option of marriage for priests, and perhaps the women's movement and their place in the church.
We'll be right back.
My guest is Dr. Malachi Martin.
All right, here we go.
Back now to Dr. Malachi Martin in Manhattan, where it's getting very late.
It is early morning, and this conversation is so stimulating that I find it difficult to imagine going to sleep, although I'm sure if you told me to go to sleep, I would do so immediately.
to ninety percent or better will prevent birth they will interfere It says that once there's conception, once there's a zygote clinging to the endometrial wall of the womb, that's a human soul, even though it's utterly undeveloped.
And you can't interfere with that once that's there.
Now, most of the abortifascians, most of the pills are abortifacients.
They will evacuate that life once started.
That's why, to a certain degree, many Catholics practice some form of blockage, the old pessary idea, the old condom idea.
Or rhythm.
Well, then rhythm is different things.
A lot of Catholics today, including the authorities, say it's okay if you follow the rhythm of your body and certain moments when the woman is fertile, you avoid.
You see, the difficulty is this, that here's a Catholic difficulty with that.
And it's a real difficulty.
And many Catholics have changed in this point, but it still is a difficulty.
If I block the natural performance of the marital act, let's call it that, that means that I have a contraceptive mentality.
Because the Catholic ideal is to be within the limits of nature and the dictates of nature, to be open to what God sends.
Now, for instance, God does send me the power of walking on a precipice and falling down 300 feet to my death on the rocks below if I don't tempt God by doing that, because I may lose my balance.
But the point I'm making is that He does give us the power of not coming together with my wife, say, when she is in a fertile period, if she has regular menses, by the way.
That's another problem altogether.
And many people try to apply the Catholic natural family planning and find out that she was irregular, and therefore they conceived.
I know one family that conceived six children already.
And actually, I've always thought of the NFP Mentality, natural family planning mentality, as a contraceptive mentality, because de facto I am avoiding contraception.
So, I mean, you know, between that and the actual contraceptive mentality, which says we shall use the condom, or we shall use, you know, the intrauterine apparatus or the pills, de facto, the intention is the same.
However, some moralists and some church authorities would allow you use the natural family planning because it is within the movement of nature.
It's within the prescriptions of nature.
I don't hold that, but that's merely my personal interpretation.
Well, that's Ben Provato, as they say, a well-chosen remark.
But it's never, no Pope has ever said that, and therefore we will increase and multiply and have more Catholics that dominate the population of the world.
I've not found that.
But it's an old shibboleth, chiefly because Catholics used to have orphanages, and with young pregnant women who are unmarried, they would adopt the child.
And there have been many abuses in that regard, by the way.
There was a recent 60-minute program on that, which was dreadfully distressing, the lengths to which they went in order to get the babies that were conceived illegitimately, as they used to say in those days.
So that's where I stand on the matter.
I do not think that any invasion of that serves finally the glory of God.
Well, you see, the sex-ed program, if you examine it nakedly, not to pun, by the way, examine it as it is, it's a program that stimulates sexual excitement and interest.
And then if you turn to the, you know, Catholic couples today, most dioceses in America must go through what they call cana conferences.
They're called cana because cana was the marriage feast at which Jesus functioned at the beginning of his preaching in the gospels.
And the cana conference was supposed to enlighten the fiancées, the engaged couples, as to their obligations.
But again, it has taken in this country, to a large extent, a sexual turn.
And it doesn't educate, because I think that the one faculty we have, the sexual power, the faculty, requires great education, especially today when we've passed through the swinging 70s and the swinging 80s and the 8-ridden 90s.
We need education.
So I would change all that.
I'd make sure we had another sex-ed attitude completely.
And I would not ask children to experiment with bananas and carrots, which they do.
But educate the human being to know that you haven't got to do it all the time.
And when you do it, it must be done within a reasoned existence.
You must be able to afford the child, and you must be able to afford the education and all the other human considerations that make a responsible citizen.
Now, difficulty or easement in this matter is on the one hand subjective and on the other hand, objective.
It's subjective in the sense that a lot goes into it.
Your early background, your nature, Your character, the examples you've had around you, your early habits, the way you're trained.
For instance, let me tell you this much: that in Ireland of my day, I became a Jesuit at the age of 18.
I never dated anybody.
I never went to a dance in my life.
We had no such thing as co-education at all.
We had separation of the sexes, and we didn't look on it as separation of the sexes.
It was the natural way we all behaved.
It was the ambient in which we lived.
We had parties at Christmas and Easter and birthdays in which we all were present, male and female, young boys and young girls.
But there was a regimentation or a rule of life then which governed everything, the clothes you wore and the way you looked and the way you touched.
And of course we were naughty at times, there's no doubt about that.
And there was masturbation, of course.
And there was mutual petting when our parents weren't looking and things like that.
But nothing grave and nothing sustained and certainly nothing permanent at all.
It was a different thing completely.
Now, has it been easy?
Oh, Ed, I'm 76, you know, and I must tell you that the early part of my life, there were struggles.
There's no doubt about that.
Thank God they ended as they did.
About the age of 65 or 70, things cleared up in the sense that it became easier to be reflective about it, not because I lost interest in the male and female aspect of life, but because other things came in that fascinated me more readily.
If life goes on as it's going at the present moment, I do not see...
If the pressures continue to mount on this matter, and they are mounting every year, especially in America and Canada, if they continue to mount, I cannot see the authorities escaping the necessity of allowing the option of marriage.
Why do I say that?
Because if I took a poll tomorrow of the 280 bishops in the U.S., in the United States of America, and of the, I don't know how many bishops there are in Canada, I suppose there are about 20 or 30 or 40, a majority would say, make it optional today.
And they don't always listen to the polls, as I say.
They don't pretend they take them, but they do.
And they have this index of leading Catholic indicators, which indicate the condition of Catholicism.
And it's published that.
They finally are beginning to publish that.
Now, this is regards the actual mounting pressures.
There are big pressures mounting.
And there are underlying faults in the pressure.
For instance, it is said by many priests and many bishops too, stupidly, by the way, they say, well, if we did this, we'd have less deviancy, less pedophilia, which of course is garbage psychologically.
Any psychologist or any psychiatrist will tell you that there's more deviancy amongst married people than amongst celibates.
So it has no bearing on it whatever.
Deviancy is deviancy, and there's more of it in married people, apparently, than amongst the so-called bachelor or celibate crowd of men and women.
So that despite the press is reporting on it because it's a very sensational subject, the actual amount of it you're saying is much less than in the average or in the record.
Yes, because I know it's anecdotal to tell you about it, but I was a U.S. chaplain for the U.S. Air Force with paratroopers in Turkey for a period of my life.
And we used to go on long trips to the radar domes that the USA maintained around the Black Sea, listening to the Soviet broadcast.
And to the time when there was great competition about space and missile development.
And I remember there were long trips, and the men, the officers who drove me always called it an 18-bear trip, or a 30-bear trip.
We had 30 cans of beer because Turkey was terribly hot in the summer.
But I remember talking to them, and the chief chaplain with us in Inchalik, we were stationed in Inchalik, at the base there in southern Turkey, southeastern Turkey.
The chief chaplain was Woody.
He was a Protestant chaplain, a very decent fellow, married with children, and a very decent man, and very good to me.
I was a minor chaplain.
I was a temporary chaplain, by the way.
But I remember the men used to say to me, you know, they say, Father, look, having made a confession to me, made the confessions in the car traveling around, if you were like Woody, if you had a wife and went home at night to your wife and children, we wouldn't tell you all these things.
We wouldn't trust you in the same way.
It's not that we distrust Woody.
We think he's a great guy.
and some of his own people, the Protestants in the force here, have a great love for him.
But they haven't got the same approach, the same intimacy with him as we have with you, because we know that you are ours.
You belong to us in a special way.
And I was only a parish priest temporarily and in various parts of my life, because I was generally in scholarly work or diplomatic work or something like that, or teaching.
But the times I was, the degree of closeness between a pastor and his people, behaving himself, hearing their confessions, serving them, baptizing them, and shriving them when they're sinful, or say they're sinful, and helping them to die in God, the closeness is something unbelievable, Art.
It really is.
And it's all, I think, influenced by the fact that you are totally at their disposal.
Now, by the way, look, there are certain sections of the Catholic Church, like the Maronite Rite, which is the Catholics of Lebanon, who have all been married.
And then there are the Greek Orthodox churches and the Russian Orthodox churches.
Their priests can be married.
Their bishops, no, but they allow their priests to marry.
And they have a very magnificent priestly tradition, you know?
So this is a human law.
Just has developed in the West to be the universal norm.
It says, there is no question that there have been horrible injustices toward women throughout history.
But it seems today as if the feminists are so determined to achieve equality with men that they do not care whether they concurrently bring down the very institutions they are trying to achieve equality in.
I'll tell you, the first thing that strikes me is this, and I've often asked women, very powerful women I know who are leaders in, say there's a group called Women's Leadership Forum, and I know all the leaders very well personally.
I've eaten with them and walked to them and talked with them and discussed things and wobbled with them in a friendly, loving fashion.
I've always asked them, when they happen to use the expression, who wants to be equal to a man?
And if I want to be equal to you, it means that I regard you as superior.
And then there's now a big push to get a study of breast cancer.
But it's mainly women pushing it.
It wasn't done by the academic community.
So there has been injustice there.
And then, there's no doubt about it, in finance and in industry and in the armed forces and in general in public life.
Women were given second place in that sense.
They were considered to be the weaker vessel and just their proper places at home, having babies and cooking and taking care of the house and the family.
Now, there's nothing wrong with all that.
The only thing was that the time came when women were needed in the workforce and when women felt they should go into the workforce.
There's a different force blowing today and it has also entered into the church.
And there's the difficulty.
Now there are some women, just a few, very highly placed in the Vatican as regards decision-making.
And between you and me and the Holy Spirit, if I want something from John Paul 2, and at times I've wanted something for other people, obviously, I always go to one of those women.
Because they have a direct manner, they go straight to the horse's mouth, and they usually get what we ask for.
Because they simply have that, they have this power of communication.
The men are all tied up with their egos.
And they're not.
So it's a good sign.
Now, the difficulty is when you come to the question of ordination, that's a different question completely.
And I must say, it's a trap into which I've seen so many so-called eminent bishops, theologians fall that they finally reduce them to saying, just because you have testicles, you can become a priest.
You know, it comes down to that.
Because you ask them why, there was one man, to give you an example of the difficulty, and it does illustrate for our listeners.
There's one bishop who's very adamant, but he's an Anglican bishop, but a very celibate man and a very good bishop, by the way, he's in Canada.
And he finally was flatteringly reduced to saying that, no, unless you're male, you can't be a priest.
And that determines your ability to become a priest.
And of course, which is a dreadful conclusion, because then it reduces the whole question of priesthood to physical things.
And there's nothing wrong with the physical things, except one would have thought it was a higher reason that you became a priest.
Well, I'll tell you why a woman, a female, God has arranged, as the church says, that women do not become priests.
It's for the very same reason.
I'm not really dodging the question, I'm giving you the reason, but it's a very profound reason, and let's hope the time allows us to at least delve into it.
For instance, Christianity says God the Son became man.
Christianity also says, by implication, God the Father could not have become man, and God the Holy Ghost could not have become man.
And the reason is this.
It's the nature of God, the nature of the Trinity.
The Son can be generated, can be born.
The Father was never born, and the Holy Ghost was never born.
Their natures, their personalities are such that being born in any sense doesn't fit in with their personalities.
Whereas it does with the Son.
He's the Son.
He's generated by his Father and his mother usually.
Now, the basic reason is this, that within creation, as a Catholic sees it traditionally, only a man pictures, reflects, reproduces the function that Jesus chiefly filled, namely as high priest.
Woman does something else.
She actually is the source of eternity.
She is the source of future generations.
She is the source of love and marital bonding.
But she doesn't reproduce at all.
Her function is not to reproduce.
The functions that Christ had as high priest.
It's as simple as that and it's as complicated as that.
It's a long consideration.
And there's a deep theological reason buried there and it's very hard to give it in a few words.
But that's the essence of it.
That only a male reproduce, and not because he's a male, but because he's a son, he's generated.
And the son, Jesus himself was generated by the Father in eternity, and he was generated in Mary's womb by the Holy Spirit.
He reproduces that condition, that origin, that personality of the Son, and therefore he can reproduce, therefore, the functions of that Son as high priest.
That's the essence of the theology of priesthood.
And of course, it doesn't apply to women.
Women have a greater, in the eyes of Christian theology, they have a more noble function.
But you see, I do know that there's this inconsistency in my Pope, which I regret very much, but he has it, and I have to bow in front of consistencies.
Most of our characters are inconsistency, are inconsistent, and his inconsistency is as follows.
That on questions of, say, abortion, contraception, homosexuality, genetic experiments, anything like that, he is absolutely adamant.
Absolutely adamant.
On everything else, he's liberal.
He really is liberal.
By the way, if you go to the Holy Father and say to him, Holy Father, may I commit abortion?
He gets airborne.
He boxes high.
And same thing with contraception, same thing with homosexuality, same thing with divorce and remarriage.
No, sir, nothing like that.
But if you say to him, Holy Father, I would like to see women priests, he becomes pathetic.
He will say to you, I wish I had the power.
There's no sudden, he doesn't come from the airborne, he's not protesting, but he wished he had.
And by the way, in the year 1995, there was a meeting of 15,000 altar servers, you know, those people that served the masses in the churches, in St. Peter's Square, 15,000 of them, and the Pope came out to address them.
And he came out on the famous balcony of St. Peter's.
Now, by the way, there were 4,000 girl servers there, amongst the 15,000.
And he said to them in his speech, to the enthusiastic speech, he said, I hope that some of you or the majority of you will one day celebrate Mass at the altar.
I see, I regard liberalism and the way he's liberal as fatal errors.
I regard it.
But listen, I'm a little man.
No wonder they didn't make me Pope.
I couldn't manage it hard.
I mean, I can't judge him.
Just from my poor little mind, it is very dangerous what he has attempted to do outside of sexual morality.
It is very dangerous.
He has endangered the integrity of his organization, not of the Catholic faith, but the organization itself is in danger due to his liberalism as regards sharing things with other religions.
that's a judgment art I'd be afraid to make because as I say I'm just a poor little fella I really have both.
I really have no...
I would, by the way, I don't think...
The possible replacement.
You see, there is now a race.
Anybody coming from Rome nowadays who tells you the truth and who speaks you Roman language of what they're talking about, they're all talking about one thing and one thing only, the conclave.
Do you know what that means?
It means they're lining up for the next Pope.
There's no doubt about it.
This is the evening of John Paul II's papacy.
We all know it.
And therefore, the papabile, as they call them, the popable ones, have come to the fore, and none of them are to my liking.
And even at 51, I look at the changes that are going on in society.
And I have sort of come to the conclusion that as we get older and society continues to change and change and change, by the time we're ready to go, or near ready to go, we sort of look up and say, Lord, these people are out of their minds.
I just wanted to say this is Dr. Malachi Martin reminds me of some detective story that he's in New York in the middle of the night, and he's mysterious and very fascinating.
And I mean that as a compliment, though.
unidentified
So it just reminds me something out of an old detective novel or something.
He was rector of the house, the last house in which I lived, although he wasn't rector when I was there, the Pontifical Biblical Institute, a Jesuit, a very brilliant man, by the way, and good at his biblical profession as well as in cardinaling.
Well, you see, what happened was that the translators of the new version of the Psalms decided to be inclusivist, and therefore they wiped out any his or hers, his or him.
Right.
That's ridiculous.
It goes to extraordinary lengths.
And the use of the word man was ruled out.
And human even is avoided because the word man is in it at the demands of many feminists.
And really, English becomes re-emasculated as a language.
The archives are now under the care of a man called the Bibliotheca, the Papal Librarian, or the Vatican Librarian.
And it's a position similar to the Librarian of Congress.
It's a very honorific job and it's an onerous job.
He actually must sign permission for you to enter the secret archives.
And in order to get that permission, you have to have a qualification, of course.
You have to be a historian or a researcher on an authorized mission.
And you have to know definitively what you want to get, because there's so much there, and you must know what you're looking for.
And you may then get permission to do so.
Once you get permission, though, it's carte blanche.
They give you full facilities and full easement in your work there.
But it's a difficult thing to get just right off.
You can't get it by simply showing up one day and saying, I'm so-and-so I'm Malachi Martin.
I want to enter the secret archives.
No, there must be.
And usually if it's a priest, he must have a letter from his bishop or from the rector of the institute to which he belongs, a university, an academy or whatever it is, or a theologate or a philosophette or a seminary of some kind or other.
In other words, they insist on very closely monitoring the identity of who entered.
And it has to be so because there are invaluable things there and they've had terrible robberies there.
People they didn't trust and came in and they walked away with very valuable manuscripts, you know, and they were eventually caught one way or the other.
Well, you would think that a place you wouldn't want to steal, if there was any place where you wouldn't want to steal, that would be the place you could.
Well, there was a case in my time there where a very, very rich Brazilian wanted a certain document referring back to a papal prescription in the 16th century or the 17th century.
And he paid somebody, and I arranged the ID and everything else, so they would be accepted.
And he did get in, and he did attempt to steal it.
He was caught.
There are such things as that.
But there are invaluable things there, and things that have never been unearthed.
Oh, I think, I'll tell you what, I think the structure of the near future of the world, I will not see it, I think, unless God prolongs my age to 120 or something like that.
The idea of a national government, of a nation-state, is disappearing.
We're going to have regional authorities.
And we're already slipping into that with our NAFTA and our European Union.
We're slipping into that already.
And even within a vast community such as we have in the United States, what is it, 250 people, 250 million people, I can foresee the day when, for instance, there'll be certain black or white enclaves and accepted by people as such.
Because, you see, I think we're coming to the stage, lady, and I hope it doesn't frighten you or shock you, we're coming to the stage that laws will be made affecting our salaries, our vacations, our education, our birth and death, our medicine, our politics.
Laws will be made by more than Americans.
It won't be Congress.
It won't be the Senate merely.
It will be foreigners.
I mean, non-Americans.
unidentified
I think we're at that stage of reaching.
I got the point.
Yeah, I understand it quite clearly.
That is very factual, absolutely.
The other question is, my ability to predict without, you know, the personification of predictions, like this plane that just went down, now they're saying it was a laser, I always had the assumption, I would say, you know, that it was.
Am I going into a middle plateau without checks and balances there?
It is dangerous for the mind to pursue the whole idea of beings on another planet.
It is dangerous to the mind for the moment because we haven't got any physical basis for it, really, nothing concrete.
Christians should look on it immediately as the presence of beings who also, if they're beings with a mind and a will, have been saved also by the blood of Jesus.
Well, let me tell you about Father Goby, as I call him, Gobby or Goby.
Look, the Virgin Mary from the Gospels and from what we know of her is a woman of very little words.
She's a woman of a lot of actions, but very little words.
And there is no way on the face of God's earth that she could have said all those words that Father Goby puts on her lips in his books.
And I guess if Father Gobi was asked, I'm sure he would say to you, if he were asked, no.
What I've done is I have clothed her thoughts in human words to make them more intelligible.
You understand me?
So that not everything is episima verba, as they say in Latin, the very words of Our Lady.
You know, I don't see, it would take a lifetime for her to say all that about a Gobi, for him to copy it down, you know, from her lips.
Number one.
Number two, as regards Fatima, he is very sound on Fatima, and the Fatima prediction is being worked out at the present moment to our cost.
But in the end, as she said herself to the children, my Maco's heart will triumph.
unidentified
Now, I understand that through, I believe his name is Father Fox.
I saw him on a program recently, and he was saying that he got a message to go to Sister Lucy's convent and that the consecration of Russia to the heart of Mary had been accepted in 1984, and that he expected that the year 2000 would bring about at least the beginning of an incredible new period.
Well, I'll tell you, here's the point, that what Lucy did say and has said more than once is this, that although the consecration hasn't been done as she asked it to be done, what the Pope did in 1984 in St. Peter's Square will suffice.
That's what she said.
That's what Lucy said.
But it is quite clear to you and to me and to anybody looking at it that Russia has not been converted.
Sure.
That hasn't even started.
True enough, since the disappearance of the USSR and the rise of Russia as a separate nation with the other former nations in what they call the CIS, the Confederation of Independent States, the 4,000 churches have been opened, reopened, were closed by the Balshis.
Well, it is because the formation of the Vatican Library was started very early on before most other libraries were begun in Europe and in the world.
And the popes were avid collectors of everything, number one.
And number two, when books and astrology, on astrology, were published in countries in Europe mainly, the local bishops sent copies of them to Rome to be vetted.
And they went into a certain section.
And by the way, there is a section, if we're going to make you laugh after it's true, there's a section there which is for pornography.
Because 100 years ago, many scholars were denying that Kaiphas ever existed.
And they were denying that he was one of the high priests.
Now this comes to confirm it.
And it just illustrates something, Beverly, which is very funny, and which is a backward procedure.
The older we get and the further we are removed from the sources of the Bible, the more confirmation we're getting.
For instance, it's only nowadays we found out a stone on which the name of Pontius Pilate was written.
There were scholars, and their books are still on the shelves in the last century and the beginning of this century, who denied there was ever such a man.
When Caiphas, a Jew, I said to him, listen, I impose an oath on you as a Jew, and I'm a priest.
Tell me, do you claim to be the Son of God?
And he said, yes, I am the Son of God.
And you will see the Son of Man, meaning himself, returning in the clouds of heaven.
That's referring to, he was telling Kaiphas, look, you know from the Bible, from your Bible, from the book of Daniel, you know well, the Son of Man comes in judgment on the nations.
Well, I've been watching, I've been watched by people for a little while, and they try to plug me as paranoid, schizophrenic.
But that's just recent.
That's all recent.
But I've seen, you know, I've been there and done that as far as seeing unidentified UFOs and sightings of unnatural origins.
And it's hard for me to follow up on and participate as much, as interesting as you are, Dr. Malik, as much as I'd like to with these, with some of the things that you do say.
But, let me, if I may, these, I've been watched during UFO events by military planes, I assume, that are also in the area.
And I can't, for the life of me, describe stuff like this to people without them thinking I'm a paranoid schizophrenic.
And, you know, I just kind of wanted your quick comment on that.
Well, number one, Christ himself recommended fasting very much, both by his example, as you've alleged, he just fasted for four days before he started his work, and also when he spoke about dealing with the devil and dealing with evil.
Prayer and fasting, he recommended.
And we've all found, we have all found in the past, that fasting is a very salutary thing.
It does sharpen the wits, and it does make you more attentive to spiritual things.
Why the church has shied away from it?
Well, here I have to appear to be an old curmudgeon and to have the grumbling and grousing.
The reason is this, that a lot of clerics, a lot of prelates, a lot of bishops, a lot of cardinals have lost the spirit of Christianity.
And they themselves like a good square meal four times a day and they think everybody else should have it if they can afford it.
So it's a lack of faith, believe you me, because fasting is a part of salvation.
I'm always glad to greet somebody like that because they can tell me something about us.
unidentified
Well, to come back to the subject we were talking about, Doctor, first of all, regarding the book, I have the address you gave the last time, and I'll send a stamped address envelope and ask you to give me the information.
And in view of various thoughts, and I think in view of your recent book, my theory was that perhaps the papacy would change back to what it was, Bishop of Rome and first among equals.
Well, I'll tell you, of course, we're dealing now with the imponderable, John, you realize.
But my feeling is roughly the same, except that I add in what Our Lady said at Carabando, in which I believe, by the way, in that vision, that appearance she made in Spain, in Carabando, the town of Carabando, which is a part of, it's near Santander in Spain, in which she said that the present Holy Father, the present Pope, is the last Pope of these Catholic times.
But the implication is that these Catholic times are coming to an end.
And Catholic times meant a period of time, roughly since the year 400 AD, 325 to be exact, but 400 AD, when Catholicism grew to be very important and integral to Western civilization.
In fact, it created a Western civilization.
That period is coming to an end because this civilization is no longer Christian and the church itself is being marginalized and sent into a new form of the catacombs.
Now, the Pope was always first among equals, but he always had that little extra thing called the Petrine privilege.
And that I think is going to stay.
But a modified form of papal power is going to come through because of the fact that the political part, the socio-political part of the papacy is going to be diminished even further.
And actually, you and I know today it's a liability to be a Catholic.
unidentified
Absolutely.
But of course, that would be a help with joining, having friends with the Orthodox.
Unless keeping our eyes in the skies, we see the sign and The Queen of Heaven comes.
It's, you know, at that stage, at the age of 81 and my age of 76, we shouldn't really care about it, John, because I think that it's easy after our time down.
The Ark of the Covenant did disappear when Jerusalem was captured by the Romans in 132 AD.
Now, and it appears there's an arch.
The Romans had a habit when they had a big victory, they built an archway, you know.
And the Arch of Titus is in Rome, and on the Arch of Titus there is a picture, a drawing of the Ark of the Covenant.
So far, so good.
There is now a story, a legend, an idea, and in fact somebody has written a novel about it, that actually the Ark survived into Christian times and is now finally in the possession of the Vatican down in the secret archives.
Now, I've never been through all the archives, but I know the Vatican very well.
And if there was such a thing as the Ark of the Covenant there, I would know about it.
I really would, because I was one of the privileged scholars of Judaism in the Vatican itself.
But it probably did go to Rome if it's on the Arch of Titus, pictured there, as amongst the spoils of war.
Do you understand me?
unidentified
Yes, sir.
Can I ask you one more question?
Yes.
Is this a false report that the Vatican is surrounded by Masonic lodges and the Vatican officials are actually controlled by the Mason, Freemasonry Doctor?
I don't know much about it because I remember climbing the Sphinx and climbing the pyramids and entering the pyramids, but I know nothing about the present excavations there.
They are marvelous monuments to the religious instinct of man.
That the entire civilization of Saraonic, Egypt, which is a marvelous civilization, and started way back 3,000 years before Christ, by the way, contemporaneously with the Chinese civilization in 3000, 4,000 BC, that that could attain, could be built on the idea of death.
Everything centers around dying and immortality in the Pharaonic religion.
And it was an amazing achievement.
And the Book of the Dead, one of their most famous books, is full of the very sublime truths.
And they had a beautiful civilization.
It also has its warts, as we say, you know, it has its faults.
There's no English word for it, but it's a putting on note.
You don't want to say, I'll put you on notice that your rent will have to be paid by Monday or something like that.
To put somebody on notice.
That's what it means by the warning.
It's avertimiento in Spanish and Italian, to avert, to alert, to put on notice.
And it's a putting on note that God exists.
And the promise is that when that sign appears, it will be visible to every human being existing at that moment on this globe and that everybody will know their relationship to God.
It doesn't mean they're going to believe in it.
It doesn't mean that they're going to be justified, that they will go to heaven if they die.
No, it just means they will know exactly where they stand in their conscience.
My question is, in Revelations it states that the Earth would be impacted by a star and that a mountain would fall into the sea.
I was wondering what your belief on those might be and that could happen.
It wouldn't necessarily destroy the Earth as we know it.
I think that several predictions, which I trust, but who am I?
Several predictions I trust speak about a part of the continent being washed away by the sea, by a tsunami.
And I don't like to think about that because of the people that would suffer and the loss of lives and the children and the animals and the destruction and the pain.
It takes a longer time than we have at our disposal, but the essentials can be said very briefly.
The New World Order finally, essentially, and as it is now is and will be increasingly, is a new arrangement of global finances.
And it's a new control and direction of the flow of capital and the flow of capital goods.
Have you noticed, for instance, that Russia and China have both been invited by the President of the United States, President Clinton, to join the World Trade Organization?
And both Russia and China have recently become members of the Bureau of International Settlement, which is in Basel, and which is in membership.
Members are always just the heads of the central banks in every big industrial country.
And in other words, the Church in Europe, based in Europe, and spread all over the world, is going to be involved in an economic and a financial and a monetary and fiscal system where it has very little liberty.
And therefore the ancient liberty of the Roman Church to finance itself, to have its own bank, and to have its own funds, is going to be severely restricted.
Number one.
Number two, there are laws now, for instance, in the European Union, which is going to unite every nation from Galway Bay to Vladivostok in one union, monetary union as well as political union, finally, they have laws that are strictly anti-Catholic.
For instance, every constituent member of that union must have laws permitting abortion and financing it.
You see, up to this, in our century and previous to this, the pressure was from below from nations rising up in revolutions and in popular uprisings.
The pressure now is from on top, from those who guide the finances and say, look, in order to manage this financial system, which is now globalist and manages every country's finances, in order to do that, we have to have certain rules.
Nation-state, nation-states, and the idea of nationalist governments and local parliaments, that's all got to be diminished.