Art Bell’s 1996 episode dissects TWA Flight 800’s $1B safety investigation under Clinton, pilot reports of missiles, and moon crater anomalies from callers like Steve in South Dakota. A caller claims hidden doors behind the Sphinx, while Bell defends "Arts Parts"—Roswell fragments with 16-layered bismuth-magnesium alloys—against tabloid smears. Debates rage over government drug ties (Contras-linked), wealth disparities (6 Americans control most of Earth’s resources in a "Hillary village" analogy), and partisan attacks, culminating in Bell’s cynicism about politics. China’s internet ban and conspiracy theories—from werewolves to Clinton assassination claims—highlight the era’s fringe obsessions, leaving Bell skeptical but open to evidence. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest.
I bid you all good evening, good morning, and welcome to the best live overnight talk show in America.
Also, the largest from the Hawaiian and Egyptian island chains.
Racing eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, where I might it's raining like crazy right now.
We'll get to that.
South America North to the pole is definitely worldwide on the internet.
I bid you all good morning.
We have a great deal to do this morning.
It's going to be open.
And uh I'll be breezing through the news for you here in a moment.
Got a really nice letter from Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia.
I'm a big fan of your show, my friend Kurt of Kirkland, Washington.
Um faithfully sends all your tapes and programs to me.
My name is Kun Yen.
I'm a Chinese born in Malaysia and been teaching mathematics to school students for 25 years.
I have visited your beautiful country many times.
I was there in May of June this year, May and June, so I missed the talk about the sea monster found off the island near here.
I'm trying to get a copy of a newspaper here featuring the story to send it to you.
Please continue with your fantastic show.
I admire, get this, the American way of life, and how you pursue the truth, and how you can be so vocal in every belief.
Because here in Malaysia, a person can be put in prison without trial for uttering a tenth of what you guys say on your show, especially part about the government.
What a great country you have.
And I have an autographed picture, which we're going to send.
It would mean so much to me, and so forth and so on.
That's Fu Chan of Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
And I thought that was kind of a nice letter.
Now, there are two newspaper articles, one in the Gilmore Mirror, and I want to thank Russ Green for that, a wonderful article.
He was along on the trip, and Russ wrote a really, really nice article about us and sent it to us.
And there is an article.
Look, let me begin by saying that you really need to go up to my webpage tonight.
You really do.
I call it a tabloid.
and uh...
and somebody uh...
as somebody anonymously uploaded this article to my webpage from uh...
from from canada i suppose and this newspaper called the times open uh...
i think it's Is it in Vancouver?
Yeah, Vancouver Island newspaper group.
Ran this article, and I'll let you decide.
Now, somebody sent me a facts and said this is not a tabloid newspaper.
However, I will read the headlines to you here in a moment.
You can read the entire article up on the webpage.
But I'll read the headlines to you.
Well, no, I'll do it now.
And you decide, you tell me if this is tabloid style or not.
At the top, it says, Times exclusive, NASA hiding aliens.
Then the sub-headlines are, talk show host hiding saucer parts.
Now, let me tell you, nobody talked to me about this article.
Nobody consulted me.
Nobody bothered to ask me or even bothered to try to contact me about this article.
And I'll read you some highlights from it.
You can read the entire article up on the webpage.
Just keep scrolling down and you'll read the whole thing.
But it is incredible, the things they have said in here.
So as far as I can see, they made it up as they went.
They may have listened to the programmers or something.
But with regard to the things they said in here, my God, Feds ready to swoop.
I don't know where they get this stuff.
It's tabloid style.
It may not be a tabloid newspaper, but it sure is tabloid style.
You take a look.
You let me know what you think.
There are new photographs on the webpage.
There are now electron scanning microscope photographs of the alleged Roswell pieces at the Roswell Museum.
And that's the silver, copper, silver layered material, 16 layers.
And we've got the photographs up there for you.
I scanned those and got them up, I think, Sunday.
And Keith has been very, very busy getting all of this up there.
But he thought you would enjoy this article from Canada.
Not a tabloid, huh?
Okay.
So there's all of that and a lot more.
I can't even think of it all right now.
It will occur to me as I go up on the webpage.
Would definitely suggest you go up and take a look.
It's www.artbell.com.
Easy to remember, easy to get to, www.artbell.com.
There is a wealth of new stuff up there for you.
President Clinton wants a billion dollars for more airline safety, security, wants cameras, scanners.
As a matter of fact, they've got a scanner which can look right through your clothes and see you butt naked.
And, you know, it occurs to me that we might be asking for all of this a little early.
I mean, what if a missile brought down Flight 800?
How is the billion dollars going to help that?
Maybe we ought to spend some of it on electronic counterwarfare measures for 747s and other commercial aircraft.
So, in other words, why not wait for an answer on what happened to Flight 800 before going bonkers on spending money?
And a little follow-up: this is all over the place.
I don't know what it means, but weeks after the TWA-800 explosion and hundreds of miles away, get this, an American Airlines pilot claims he saw a missile pass his jetliner in flight.
While the two cases were being investigated separately, report fits a scenario that is one of the theories under consideration in the TWA case that a missile brought down the jumbo jet, killing all 230 aboard.
So here is a pilot who saw a missile go whizzing by his commercial aircraft.
Now that would get your attention, wouldn't it?
If you were sitting there trucking along, probably on autopilot, and there goes a missile.
Too close for comfort.
Iraq.
Two more towns in northern Iraq have fallen with the help of Saddam Hussein and company.
The story coming out now about what occurred in Iraq is rather interesting.
That the U.S. had a facility in northern Iraq that was essentially CIA based there in northern Iraq.
And Saddam knew it, and that's what made him go north.
The CIA guys, once Saddam headed north, had to abandon their facility, probably shred what they could, left a lot behind, equipment and such, and get the hell out of Dodge.
So we extended the no-fly zone in the south and hit him with missiles in the south in response to that.
Now that is the story going around.
I don't know.
I still don't fully understand what's going on here.
In other words, if we're going to all this trouble and expense to chill Saddam and we're trying to train other people to do it, why don't we just do it up front and kill the SOB?
You know, that's my attitude about this.
And I know it seems to many brutal, but I mean, here we are spending all of this money to have covert operations to train people in northern Iraq to kill Saddam or to depose him.
And I don't know how you do that without killing him.
So check me if I'm wrong here, folks, but if we want to kill Saddam, why don't we just do it?
I've got a whole bunch of other stuff here, but I'll try to get to it slowly.
there's some really really good stuff in here and uh...
but i'm going to have to uh...
ration my time or i'm going to run out of it Hurricane Fran has left her mark.
As you know, last week we did a program and talked to all the people out there in the hurricane-affected area.
I'm afraid we're going to have to do it again soon.
The legacy of Fran is the Potomac overflowing its banks, double flood stage, incredible.
West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, the nation's capital, all flooding, 22 dead, the death toll climbing, seven still not found, a billion dollars in damage in North Carolina alone, and now enter soon hortense.
Hurricane, it is a hurricane now.
They said, well, they didn't think it would become a hurricane.
Wrong.
It has.
They say it's too early to determine whether it's going to pose a threat to the mainland.
However, it certainly is posing a threat to Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands.
They say, Hortense, even at this early stage, may dump one foot of rain.
I say again, one foot of rain.
So I hope all of you are okay in the islands this morning.
I think it likely that it will not hit St. Thomas, even St. Croix, hopefully too hard.
And I'd love to talk to you.
So if you are in St. Thomas or St. Croix, you're getting an early preview of Hortense.
You might call me at 1-800-825-5033.
Let me hold the line open a little while for our friends in the U.S. Virgin Isle and see what's going on with Hortense.
And no doubt, the people in North Carolina, well, it's a little early to call it, but the people from Florida to, well, all the way along the eastern seaboard may have something else to worry about.
It's a factory of hurricanes in the Atlantic.
The drug use business continues to be in the news.
And a new study has found that parental attitudes are part of the trouble.
Parents who smoke pot probably will end up with kids who smoke pot.
About 65% of those who tried pot when they were young think their kids will.
Probably they will.
Former Clinton political strategist Dick Morris says he didn't tell a prostitute that First Lady Hillary Clinton ordered a controversial review of FBI files.
So he is denying that.
And while we're on the subject of politics, is the election all over?
The polls show men on dole about evenly split.
Women, on the other hand, favor Bill Clinton by incredible amounts.
I mean, just incredible Amounts.
Now, you can say it's the abortion issue, and maybe to some degree it is, but it's certainly a lot more than that.
Come on, this gender gap is a lot deeper than abortion.
Because women voted in droves for Ronald Reagan, and he was anti-abortion.
So, this gender gap is a lot more than abortion.
And I will ask you about the gender gap.
Why?
But give me some answer, if you would, other than the abortion topic, because I think it's more than that.
Oh, by the way, nobody has yet asked, so I will, what do you think this election year's October surprise is going to be?
I like to in September every year prior to an election.
Ask what you think this year's October surprise is going to be.
So what do you think it's going to be?
By the way, I've got a kind of a half of an idea here, and I want to know if you think it's a good one.
I got a call earlier in the day from Harry Brown's headquarters, and while they are going to try every possible venue and avenue toward getting into the presidential debates, in the end, they think they probably will not make it.
And so they said, hey, Art, on the night of the debates, what would you think of having Harry Brown on?
And I've been thinking about that since I got the message earlier in the day.
And I think that's a pretty good idea.
In other words, generally make a list of those items debated by Bob Dole and Bill Clinton and submit them on the air here to Harry Brown.
It would be very instructional to hear what he would have to say.
So we could then imagine what it might be like had Harry Brown been allowed into the debates.
And so I wonder if you guys think that would be a good idea.
Going back for a second to this article, you've really got to go up there and take a look at it.
Times, huh?
Talk show host hiding saucer parts.
Feds ready to swoop.
Exclusive learn the truth behind art parts.
Let's see.
CFUN.
CFUN broadcasts a popular program of American origin called Dreamworld.
Well, of course, they didn't even get that quite right, but it's Dreamland, Nick.
Dreamland.
And let's see, it says, Bell started out in relative calm.
However, the opportunities surrounding this topic, meaning the parts, have proved just too much, and Bell has gone off the deep end.
Let's see.
All this is fortunate for Bell, because he's at least partly in the UFO business, meaning getting these parts.
But there is a problem, because the feds have to keep their conspiracy going.
They'd undoubtedly swoop down, seize the goods, and then deny their existence.
Therefore, Bell has dispersed his evidence to a number of secret locations.
But aren't they available to accredited scientists?
Obviously, you just don't understand the length of the government's reach.
Then they go on to say lately Bell has been getting a little testy about the whereabouts of what have come to be called R Sparts, which means losing it on the air and yelling at skeptics to phone somebody else's show.
His concern isn't surprising because given the fortune he could extract from them, yeah, right, he either doesn't like money or doesn't have them.
Well, the pictures are up there for all to see.
And many, many people have seen them and handled the parts, so that's silly.
And as far as making a fortune, so far all they have done is cost me a fortune.
So I don't know where they get this stuff.
I have no idea.
But to me, it is tabloid style.
If it is not a tabloid, it certainly is tabloid style.
Take a look at it.
It's on the webpage, and you tell me.
All right.
Arn, I thought you would enjoy this.
In a recent issue of Meat and Poultry magazine, editors quoted from Feathers, the publication of the California Poultry Industry Federation, telling the following story.
It seems the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration has a unique device.
It's for testing the strength of windshields on airplanes.
The device is basically a gun that launches a dead chicken at the plane's windshield at approximately the speed the plane flies.
The theory is if the windshield doesn't crack from the carcass impact, it'll survive a real collision with a bird during flight.
Well, it seems the British were very interested in this, wanted to test it on a windshield on a brand new speedy locomotive they're developing there.
They borrowed the FAA's chicken launcher, loaded the chicken, and fired.
Well, the ballistic chicken shattered the windshield, went through the engineer's chair, broke an instrument panel, then embedded itself in the back wall of the engine cab.
The British were stunned, asked the FAA to recheck the test to see if everything was done correctly.
The FAA reviewed the test thoroughly and had one recommendation.
Next time, use a thawed chicken.
We'll be right back.
unidentified
You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 9th, 1996.
We gotta get right back to where we started from.
Do you remember that day at Shawnee Day?
When you first came my way, I said no one could take your place.
If you get hurt, if you get hurt, by the little things I say, I can put that smile back on your face.
When it's over.
all right, it's coming up.
We gotta get right back to where we started from.
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 9th, 1996.
On page one of the San Jose Mercury for the 9th of September, there is an article on how a Denver, Colorado company called Dog Gone uses a truck-mounted vacuum cleaner to suck prairie dogs out of their holes at 300 miles per hour.
Perhaps these folks might take care of your rabbits and ground squirrels.
Sincerely, Mike San Jose.
Can you imagine that?
Being down in the ground, contentedly trucking along in your hard, no doubt, very hard-worked hole, and all of a sudden, 300 miles an hour, and you're gone.
It looked like St. Croix might be getting a bigger beating than you are.
unidentified
Yes, they did say that St. Croix was going to pass to the south of St. Croix, but it seems as though it's I wouldn't say it's a hurricane, but the winds are high and we are having lots of rain.
Well, listen, by the way, the last I heard, the hurricane was kind of stalled, which is really bad news because, I mean, it's almost just sitting there right now.
unidentified
Yeah, it's just sitting here giving us a lot of rain, but I don't believe it.
What I wanted to mention, you just read the, I guess it was a fax.
I just came in on the program, so I haven't heard too much.
I wanted to mention that I enjoy immensely your program.
I listen to it just constantly.
I'm up and about most of the time that you're on.
In any event, about the gophers, you cut that short, I think you'd better mention that they're swooped up that tube at 300 miles an hour, but the inventor has a foam cushion to soften Oh, yeah.
The purpose of the doggone thing is to transfer from areas transfer gophers from areas where they're not wanted.
Well, what do what do they do for gopher heart attacks?
I mean, if you got sucked out of a hole at 300 miles an hour, foam or no foam, you're going to have a heart attack.
unidentified
Well, the article I read, and I believe it was probably the same one that your person sent in, went on to say that the inventor of this scooper has been under quite a bit of fire from the animal rights group.
Well, I think it's quite a thing because they are, he claims that most of the gophers arrive in the truck after their transport through the tube a little bit dazed, he said.
All right, now, so how do they prevent gopher pileup?
In other words, if one gopher comes flying through at 300 miles an hour and hits the foam, I've got that part, and he lives, he's a little dazed or has a heart attack or whatever, then the second gopher fires at 300 miles an hour, how come he doesn't land on top of the first gopher at 300 miles an hour?
Now, that would be a mess.
unidentified
Well, they go about the gopher colonies with this truck, and they're not scooping up gophers by the large numbers.
They find a gopher trail or a gopher tunnel, and they put the hose down the tunnel, and they'll scoop one or two up, and then they have to spot them again, and they move the truck over to the next.
Yeah, but I mean, how would you prevent, for example, suppose there's a whole family, mom, dad, and three little gopher babies, all sort of in there together.
unidentified
You'll mention the offspring, the little ones, and that.
Seems to me if you just left the other end, you know, like a vacuum cleaner, just blew them out the other end, you could almost put these gophers in orbit.
Just blow them out into low Earth orbit.
All right, well, listen, thank you very much for the call.
On the night of the debates, assuming he is denied access, I could kind of make notes on the questions submitted to the candidates and then submit roughly the same questions to Harry Brown just to see what it would have been like had he been there.
So do I. I mean, that's why I thought it'd be interesting.
All right, thank you very much.
So maybe I'll do that.
His headquarters thought it'd be a good idea, which I thought was very flattering.
I mean, on the night of the debates, it gives him an opportunity to respond.
And the trick would be to make note of the questions asked of the other two candidates and get Harry's answer.
And that way you can sit back and imagine what the debates would have been like or how they would have been altered had the Libertarian candidate been there.
The debate commission is about to meet, and I rather think that Rossbrow and Harry Brown are not going to be in, although they ought to be.
I don't know what the criterion should be.
Perhaps being on all 50 state ballots ought to qualify a person for at least the first round of the debates.
I have thought from the very beginning that this was probably a missile that brought down Flight 800.
I talked to a friend of mine who was retired from the Air Force this last weekend, and the first thing he said when he saw me is, what do you think brought down Flight 800?
I said, a missile, but I don't know what kind or where it came from.
He said, I thoroughly agree.
He said, Aviation Week and Space Technology, which is a magazine that you probably have heard of, is running a whole series of articles on Flight 800.
And he says there was a National Guard air group practicing about 30 miles from where that fight went down.
I mean, not only the act itself, thank you, is bad enough.
If it was an accident, that's horrible.
But it is not as horrible As one federal agency, in effect, keeping it from another, I'm not saying that's what's going on here, but that would be truly horrible.
That would mean the end of everything that we hold and cherish as dear.
And that is, I don't know, the American way.
You just don't do that.
If there is an accident, you own up to it.
You make changes so it never happens again.
You don't hide it.
If you indulge a cover-up, you know, then we're losing it.
In other words, it can only be seen from the air, therefore, it was done from the air.
And I think that is a safe conclusion.
I don't think it necessarily leads one to the conclusion that it's done by saucers.
But done from the air, yeah, I'd say you could draw that conclusion.
Listen to this.
I got this from a certain television station, and I won't mention which, in Hawaii.
Hi, Art.
I'm in the process of tracking down a very interesting guest for you.
I've got a friend named Paul who lives part-time in Honolulu, part-time in Portland, head of a fairly large and successful company.
He has a girlfriend named Anita.
In the past, I brought up the subject of UFOs with both Paul and Anita.
Neither of them knew enough about it to make an opinion or have an opinion.
I suspect they probably thought I was a bit off-kilter.
Recently, Paul and Anita came to Hawaii for a visit.
Anita approached me with great excitement, said she'd met a woman I had to talk to, something about something had really gotten Anita's attention on the subject of UFOs.
And this is her story about the woman.
This woman currently works for the huge hydroelectric power company in the northwest, Bonneville Power.
She apparently holds a major position there.
The woman is a Native American and very much into Native American history, language, and culture.
She can speak and read one of the ancient languages.
The woman has also been in the special forces and apparently holds a high-level top-secret clearance.
According to her, she was contacted by certain officials sometime in the past and taken to a crystal mountain somewhere near Palm Desert, California.
She was shown some inscriptions in crystal that were very, very old and asked to translate them.
According to this woman, they were written in a number of ancient languages.
One of them was the Native American language or petrographs that she's able to read.
She says they have been etched by laser and were holographs, very high-tech yet very ancient.
The message translated simply, quote, we came to this planet.
We seeded this planet.
We will return, end quote.
Anita says this woman is now ready to go public with her story.
She can verify her credentials.
I am in the process of contacting her.
Unfortunately, I work for a mainstream local TV news department, which I will not identify.
Should I take this to my news director, he'd ask me what I've been smoking.
So when I contact a woman, I will give you the information.
Take care.
Love the show.
Dick in Hawaii.
Well, thanks, Dick.
I appreciate that.
We'll follow it up.
I don't care.
People already know I'm crazy, and I'll do this sort of thing, and that's fascinating, so I will follow it up indeed.
this is actually the real real market you have a good look at the top of the entities can't look at the other All right, here's a patch from Montgomery, Alabama.
It says, Hey, Art, a man walks into an antique store and begins looking around.
All of a sudden, he spies a huge brass rat in the corner.
He falls in love with it instantly.
So he takes it to the cashier.
The old grizzly cashier says, the rat, eh?
Yeah, how much, replies our friend.
Well, five bucks for the rat, but $200 for the story, he replies.
So the customer obviously says, well, I'll just take the rat, forget the story.
He leaves the store, his precious brass rat tucked under his arm.
Soon, he begins to notice that a few rats are following him.
So he walks a few more blocks, and the number of rats behind him is increased.
This continues until there are virtually millions and millions of rats behind him.
Afraid of this mass following, the man runs to the sea and throws his brass rat in.
All of the rats plunged in after it and met their watery, twitching deaths.
The man ran back to the antique store, of course.
The old cashier was chuckling to himself.
So, do you now want the story?
No, the man says, but have you got any brass Democrats?
This is interesting, too, and I thought I would get it out to you just because it makes you think.
If we could shrink the Earth's population to a village of precisely 100 people, now think about that for a moment, shrink the entire Earth's population to a village of 100 people, with all existing human ratios remaining the same, the village, Hillary's no doubt, would look like this.
There'd be 57 Asians, 21 Europeans, 14 from the Western Hemisphere, North and South, and 8 Africans.
That's it.
57 Asians, 21 Europeans, 14 from the West, and 8 Africans.
51 would be female, 49 male.
70 would be non-white.
30 would be white.
70 would be non-Christian.
30 would be Christian.
50% of the entire world's wealth would be in the hands of six people, and all six would be citizens of the USA.
80 would live in substandard housing.
70 would be unable to read.
50 would suffer from malnutrition.
One would be near death.
One would be near birth.
Only one would have a college education.
No one would own a computer.
Wow.
When one considers our world from such an incredibly compressed perspective, the need for both tolerance and understanding becomes glaringly apparent.
I thought that was priceless.
And I want to thank Jerry, who's a good friend of mine, for sending it along.
Okay, I believe the answer to that is no, but I will ask Richard for you.
unidentified
Okay, I truly appreciate that because, you know, it was just a black dot, and it was, you know, I was more, you know, interested in the valleys and the stuff on the moon, you know.
And I was thinking to myself, my, have I got a good picture here.
For something to be a black dot, assuming that it was in moon orbit or somewhere near the moon, for you to see it as a dot, it would have to be absolutely gigantic.
unidentified
I would imagine.
And to be that deliberate, that's the reason why I thought, well, maybe I'm catching a satellite going, you know.
Boy, I'll tell you, they used to say there was a direct line from the Arctic right downside of the mountains and dumping into Amarillo, and they were right.
unidentified
Well, that's right.
Well, it's all flat between here and the North Pole anyhow.
All right, well, I want you to hear this because a lot of people think I'm off my rocker and all wet.
Sometimes I am.
But Art as further evidence of the compass deviation phenomenon that you've been discussing on your program, listen to this.
I've been boating in Southern California for about 40 years.
I frequently go to a favorite spot on Catalina Island.
A weekend or two ago, my wife and I traveled to the island from our normal harbor to our normal spot on the island, using the same boat, the same compass, we've been using for six years.
As is my usual practice, I entered the normal course heading into the automatic pilot and off we went.
Well, guess what happened?
When we were about halfway to Catalina, a 21-mile run, I noted on the radar that the ship was not headed for our spot, but was heading about six degrees off course.
After experiencing this, I thought of your comments regarding the magnetic deviations being experienced in other areas.
Now, I tested this on the reciprocal course, in other words, heading back to the harbor from the island at the end of the weekend, and using my normal course from the island to the mainland, I would have missed the harbor entrance if I had not made a correction.
Arn, I tell you, I've used this course for literally decades and have used it with this boat and this autopilot for six years.
Very strange indeed, a ham operator.
Lynn, thank you very much, Lynn.
So, you know, there is something going on out there with regard to magnetic deviation.
You're just not hearing about it anywhere but here.
Listen, I'm going to leave the line because that really is awful.
If you heard the segment with Linda Moulton Howe, which ran Friday and Monday, in lieu of the live Dreamland, by the way, Whitley Streeber is going to be with us, I believe, on the 22nd.
We've rescheduled that.
Oh, as a matter of fact, let me tell you what's coming up on Dreamland.
But first, let me just finish where I was going.
She reported that we now appear to have a videotape of a crop circle actually being formed.
In other words, actually caught on videotape in nine seconds with spherical lights above it, dancing above it.
So I'm looking forward to that evidence.
And finally, perhaps we are getting somewhere on this crop circle business.
September 15th on Dreamland, Dr. Richard Boylan, author of Extraterrestrial Contact and Human Responses.
September 22nd, Whitley Streeber, abductee, author of Communion, and he's got new books out now.
He'll tell you about those.
September 29th, astronaut Dr. Brian O'Leary, author of Miracle in the Void.
October 6th, now October, we devote pretty much to ghostly things, as you may know, culminating in our ghost-to-ghost show on Halloween.
So October 6th begins it with Richard Sennett, author of The Haunted Southland.
On October 20th, Amber Wolf, The Witch's Witch, author of Elemental Power.
As you know, I've wanted to interview a witch.
Amber Wolfe will be coming up October 20th.
October 27th, Dr. Philip Stander and Dr. Paul Schmulling, I believe it is, authors of Poltergeists and the Paranormal Fact Beyond Fiction.
November 10th, Dr. Bruce Goldberg, author of Past Lives, Future Lives.
November 24th, John Michael Greer, author of Paths of Wisdom, Principles and Practice of the Magical Kabbalah in Western tradition.
So that's quite a lineup of what's coming up on Dreamland.
Just thought you might want to know.
Listen, you've got to get to my webpage tonight.
No matter what else you do, you have got to get up there and see this article, which is in full, printed by this newspaper called The Times, which I understand is not a tabloid, though this is a very tabloid-y article, I think.
They never consulted me, never called me, they could have.
It says, talk show host hiding saucer parts.
Exclusive, learn the truth behind art parts.
Fed's ready to swoop.
The entire article is there.
I think you'll get a kick out of it so we put it up on the webpage.
Actually, that's the interesting story because just about two, three weeks ago, a guy came up to a friend of mine in school and pegged me and two other members of my clan as werewolves.
Well, have you considered that perhaps that might be a productive avenue?
unidentified
Well, I have actually thought about that because this kind of weirded me out when I found out about it because there's two ways you can become one of the breed, as we call ourselves.
The plane collides with the mountain, leaving only one survivor who was quietly murdered by the medi-vac flight surgeon on board the military helicopter sent to rescue Miss Shelley Kelly.
And the thing is that I've, on my research, in fact, over tonight on an archaeology show, they were saying how that if one single piece could be found in the Americas, the New World, it would change the entire evolution of mankind in the Americas.
Well, the thing is I have so many pieces and they're just sitting here.
And I was wondering maybe some of your callers might know because what's really interesting is that the gentleman you had on there discussing the Sphinx, I have some stone carvings that are shaped like the Sphinx.
I have others that remind me of Amun Ra, the sun god.
It is a very convincing, credible story, and there's been a lot of scientific inquiry.
And instead of elaborating on it right now, I'll wait till Mr. Hoagland gets here, and he can tell you precisely about it.
I can tell you this, that it has been documented that everything above this machine weighs less.
In other words, they had it down in one of the bottom floors, and as you went up through, it was a many, you know, a tall building.
And as they went up through the floors, every single item when this machine is on weighs less.
That, my friend, is indeed anti-gravity.
unidentified
Well, okay, and have you heard any more about at the end of the Sphinx or at the beginning where the head is at, there's supposed to be like a chamber?
Yes, I've heard a great deal about it, and of course we've had many guests on about that, as I just finished saying.
Incidentally, toward the end of this month, Graham Hancock and his co-author, Mr. Buval, are coming to America, and we're going to have them both back on again.
You know what I think it'd be really cool is if we could get Graham to come down when we go to Egypt, if we could get Graham to fly down from London and give us a tour, wouldn't that be cool?
I sort of thought of that recently.
Now, I'm way out ahead of things here, and I haven't even asked Graham about it.
But I thought that would be particularly an interesting thing to do, and to have Graham give the group the tour.
I don't know if that could be done, but it's worth a shot.
Anyway, we are, indeed, next year, and by the way, it's on the same ship we were on this year, the Mazdan, going to Egypt.
And I'm going into the pyramid.
I'm going to get inside the pyramid.
I want to experience it.
It's just one of those things that I want to get done while I'm here.
If you know what I mean.
All right, we're going to break here at the top of the hour, and we'll be right back with more.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 9th, 1996.
Tonight we'll put all other things aside.
Give in this time and show me some affection.
We're going for those pleasures in the night.
I want to love you, feel you, to wrap myself around you.
I want to leave you, leave you.
I just can't get enough.
And if you will throw, I'll let it go.
I'm so excited.
And I just can't hide it.
I'm about to lose control and I think I like it.
I'm so excited.
And I just can't hide it.
And I know, I know, I know, I know, I know.
I want you
You shouldn't even think about tomorrow.
You're listening to Arkbell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 9th, 1996.
We'll kind of cruise over the news here in a moment and cover what there is to cover.
Our president wants a billion dollars for airline security.
One wonders whether some of that money perhaps ought go for electronic countermeasures to be installed in 747s.
Billion dollars is a lot of money, and we're jumping on it kind of early since we don't know what brought down 800 just yet.
One TWA checked that.
One other pilot, an American Airlines pilot, this is an Associated Press article, by the way, says he saw a missile zip by his airliner, like that, hundreds of miles apart.
But still in all, when you think about it, there should not be missiles passing within sight or near the windshield of any commercial airliner.
And here we've got a pilot saying that such is the case.
Oh, listen, you've got to get to my webpage.
There is this article written by this newspaper up in Canada, which, you know, I called it, perhaps wrongly, a tabloid.
But I'll tell you, somebody sent me a facts and said it's not a tabloid.
But listen to the headlines.
Those of you familiar with the story should know better than this.
It says, talk show host hiding saucer parts.
Exclusive.
Learn the truth behind arts parts.
Feds ready to swoop.
And it's a long article.
It's up on the webpage.
Somebody sent it to the webpage.
And so Keith put it up there.
And I really think that you ought to read this, and you tell me what kind of an article you think it is.
They never consulted me.
They never called me, of course.
Talks about me and arts, parts, and all the rest of it.
But, I mean, come on.
Sheesh.
All the testing, I mean, it's gone to Carnegie Institute, Washington.
All the testing that we've done, every sort of legitimate scientist we could lay our hands on, every government agency we could consult, every rare metals manufacturer in the U.S. that might even manufacture something of this sort, and they're saying talks are almost hiding saucer parts.
Give me a break.
Iraq turns out we had a big operation up in northern Iraq CIA did to overthrow Saddam, probably get him killed or whatever, and so he got upset and chased up there, and CIA guys had to split real quick and leave a bunch of good stuff behind that now no doubt Saddam has.
And that's part of the reason why all of that happened, I am told.
And that is rather interesting, very interesting, actually.
And I just wonder we spend all these millions on CIA guys to chase around and train people to go do what we ought to just do.
You know, if we're going to kill this guy, I said it earlier, then we ought to just kill him, you know, and stop with all this baloney.
If we're going to kill him, we're going to kill him.
Fran, the hurricane, now not a hurricane, of course, but leaving behind a billion dollars damage in North Carolina and flooding all over West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, Washington, D.C. Flooding, flooding, flooding.
A new hurricane is now born named Hortense.
Hortense is hardly moving, threatening now Puerto Rico and my good friends in the islands.
And I talked to a lady in the Virgin Islands at the beginning of the program, and she said it's just raining like hell.
It may dump up to a foot of rain.
And the bad part of it is it's roughly just sitting, kind of wobbling.
It was going six miles an hour, then they couldn't measure any forward movement, and it's sitting and building.
So that's not good.
And it may or may not threaten the U.S. mainland.
We're going to have to wait and see.
I got a call from Harry Brown's headquarters.
They said, hey, the night of the debates, how would you like to have Harry Brown on?
I thought, what a cool idea.
You know, Clinton and Dole will debate.
I think the Election Commission is going to meet, the Debate People Commission, and they're not going to let Harry Brown in.
I really doubt they're going to let the Little Texan in either.
I think this year they're not going to.
I could be wrong, and I hope I am wrong, but I think the odds are that they're not going to be allowed in.
And so if that turns out to be the case, the offer is to have Harry on the show, and he apparently would like to be on the program, so I'm kind of all for it.
I think it'd be kind of fun just to write down the questions that the candidates debate and then throw them to Harry, and then we can all get an idea of what it would be like if they had allowed some other point of view, whether I agree with it or not, into the debates and let Harry answer right here on the air.
What do you think?
Good idea?
You guys like that idea?
Should I do it?
They are offering, and I'm honored they're offering.
We're also talking a little bit about Susan McDougall.
Somebody called up and said that she's protecting the Clintons, taking it in the gut for the Clintons, and I don't think so.
She says she doesn't know anything that will damage them.
And my view is that if she did, she'd sing.
And of course, there's a lot of disagreement about that because a lot of people want to believe that she's got all these secrets that are bringing the Clintons down.
Mike sends me the following, Art, if Susan McDougall sang, who would protect her?
Well, to me, the obvious answer is, Mike, her song would protect her.
And if she's going into a federal correctional institution, which I guess she is, right, for, what, 18 months?
Isn't that what she got?
Or is it more, two and a half years?
I forget.
Whatever it is.
She would sing to keep herself out of prison.
Moreover, with regard to protection, her song would protect her.
If anything, if she really did have all these terrible secrets, then once she was inside a federal correctional institution, her life wouldn't be worth two cents.
Wouldn't be worth two cents.
You know, if what you imagine to be true is true, that's where they'd get her.
Because they'd figure, I mean, I'm just playing now with your theory or conspiracy theory, if the Clintons would do her in for what she knows, then once she was in jail, she'd have no protection at all.
The other hand, if she sang like a bird, she'd have all kinds of protection because Starr wouldn't have put her in jail.
And once she has sung the song, then the song is there for all to hear, and there's no point in doing anything to her because the song has been sung, if you follow me, Mike.
So it seems to me, with regard to what you ask, who would protect her, her song would protect her.
All right.
I want to give out the international number, and I don't do that enough.
I know it.
I keep forgetting it.
We have got a toll-free international line.
I don't care where you are in the world.
You can call us toll-free.
Really, it won't cost you anything.
And I know a lot of people listen on the internet, and a lot of people are able to hear our big 50,000-watt stations out of the country.
So whether you're in Europe or Asia or South America or Central America, if you want to call us, here's how to do it.
Call and get the ATNT operator or get the country code for your country and dial that.
And then call 800-893-0903.
Let me say that again.
Get the AT ⁇ T operator for your country or the USA Direct Access Code number.
Then dial 800, or have her dial for you, 800-893-0903.
And that line is open all the time that I'm on the air.
All right, well, then I don't, you know, I don't mind, I guess, discussing the possibility, but until there is evidence, to just call up and give that like a ball score is pretty flippant and not fair.
And I wouldn't say the Navy or the Air Force or the Army or anybody else shot it down until I had some sort of evidence.
I don't want to believe that.
I'm not saying it can't be so.
It could be that it was a mistake, but I'll tell you, if we shot that airliner down by mistake and we're now covering it all up, then God help us as a nation, it'll tear this country apart.
So I wouldn't be flipping about it, and I hope to hell it's not true.
And once in a while I'm able to pick up your program, and I enjoy it very much, and I wanted to get more information about Major Ed Dame and Courtney Brown, the name of Courtney Brown's book, Cosmic Voyage.
I'm probably going to have Courtney Brown on because Major Dame said a few things about Courtney, not awful, but not totally favorable, and so I thought I'd give Courtney an opportunity to respond.
I am a big believer in these near-death experiences, and I am convinced.
I am absolutely convinced that there is a life after death, that what is within us, and I'm going to be very generic about this to the disappointment of many, continues in some form.
An afterlife.
I do believe in an afterlife.
And I will doggedly pursue guests and people who are doing legitimate investigation into these areas.
I saw a Showtime thing the other night.
It was very good, actually, that reminded me of the program we did last night, actually Friday night, Saturday, about vibration.
About the fact that we are living in a certain vibration.
In other words, all life is an animation.
And this dimension is produced by a specific, very specific vibration.
Of course, it was science fiction, but it was very good, and it was echoes of what we were discussing the other night.
Very, very, very interesting stuff, and I'm going to try to pursue somebody in one of those areas.
But near death, after death, it all may be pretty much the same thing, and it may be a dimensional sort of thing.
And I don't want to get too specific, because I can't be.
When Bush first went in there, when we first went over there, Bush said, we're not going there to take out Saddam Hussein.
Right.
Okay.
If we'd have taken out Saddam Hussein and destroyed his army and him along with it, the Saudis and the Kuwaitis would have came up to us and said, thank you very much, the United States of America, now Yankee, go home.
We wouldn't have a military presence in there anymore or a political presence.
I mean, your premise here is that we would have no enemy, so they'd say goodbye.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't necessarily buy all that, and Iran would still be there, and probably whoever would take over in Iraq would not necessarily ultimately be friendly to us.
So I don't know.
Look, I'm not saying we should have taken the army out totally or totally disabled Iraq.
But in terms of dusting Saddam, yes, sir, I think we ought to do that.
I mean, instead of planning all kinds of CIA guys and spending bazillions of dollars and all that.
In fact, if the KBC people down there would be very, very nice and give KBC a call or write them a letter about Dreamland, I'm sure they would start thinking about it harder.
Also, I will give you another update, and that is the parts incredibly.
The parts found or now in possession of the Roswell Museum have been tested, and they've done electron scanning microscope work on them, and there are 16 layers.
Now, this is something Linda Howe said, but those photographs are now up on my website also.
And so if you want to see, you know, it's amazing that the parts that were sent to me and the parts that were sent to New Mexico have that in common.
Mine, bismuth, magnesium, and zinc, somewhat considerably more rare elements, but both of them layered in a very similar manner, or actually dissimilar, but the layering itself is similar, and that is amazing.
And so we've got those electron scanning microscope photographs up there, as well as the ones of my parts, of course.
So, my parts, just parts, arts parts, whatever you want to call them.
And you ought to take a look at that.
This layering business is amazing.
Call us toll-free at 1-800-618-8255.
Hold it, hold it.
Tom, you're not allowed to give your last name on the air.
Turn your radio off, Tom.
That's number one.
Okay, I got it off.
And number two, please don't give us your last name.
What happened is it's been, I don't know, six months now ago, or seven or eight, whatever it is, a long time ago, somebody sent me some metal fragments that are alleged to have been from the Roswell crash of 1947 or Socorro.
And actually, that is one thing I don't identify, and that is the actual crash site specified in the letters for good reason.
But they sent me all these metal pieces, and we have had them ever since then.
We've been trying to determine what the hell they are.
The ones sent me were bismuth and magnesium.
Bismuth is a very strange element.
And magnesium and layered.
Nobody can duplicate it.
Nobody knows What it is, and so forth and so on.
So, this has been ongoing now for months and months, and we put it through every conceivable test except a few left that we have yet to do.
And we have let contrary to what it says in that you know, why would they write something like that?
Talk show host hiding saucer parts.
I picked that up earlier today, you know, out of the mail, and I looked at that and said, oh my God, look, it's a tabloid.
But, you know, now I'm told it isn't a tabloid.
It's tabloid-like, anyway.
Talk show host hiding saucer parts.
Give me a break.
Where would they get something like that?
We have been so public with this, intentionally been so public with it.
I mean, every result, every scientific result that we've received has been publicized, up there for everybody to see.
We've documented carefully every step we've taken, and you get a headline like that.
Top shows hiding saucer parts.
That's really insulting.
So, I mean, you know, in a nutshell, without giving you the specifics, which would take all night, and I'm not going to do it.
I'm not going to bore the audience to death with that.
By the way, this guy who wrote this article, sticking in my craw, this Nick Kelly.
Guest column.
Nick Kelly.
Talk show host Hiding Saucer Parts.
Nick Kelly.
I'd like to talk to Nick Kelly.
Nick Kelly.
I'd like to talk to you.
Some expression you got there on your face, bud.
I'm getting a lot of requests to repeat this, so I'm going to repeat it.
It is a summary of the world.
It's not very frequent that you can read something like this or ever get something like this, and I will put it up on the web.
Everybody's asking me to do that.
If we could shrink the Earth's population to a village, a Hillary village of about 100, not about, but precisely 100 people, with all existing human ratios remaining the same, it would look like this.
There would be 57 Asians, 21 Europeans, 14 from the Western Hemisphere, North and South, and 8 Africans.
Now that puts it in perspective for you, doesn't it?
57 Asians.
Man, would we be a minority?
51 would be female, 49 male.
70 non-white, 30 white.
70 non-Christian, 30 Christian.
50% of the entire world's wealth would be in the hands of only six people, and all six of those would be citizens of the United States of America.
80 would live in substandard housing.
70 would be unable to read.
50 would suffer malnutrition.
One would be near death.
One near birth.
Only one would have a college education.
No one would own a computer.
When one considers our world from such an incredibly compressed perspective, the need for both tolerance and understanding becomes glaringly apparent.
Isn't that cool?
And a good friend of mine, Jerry Lewine, sent that to me by email, and I thought you would enjoy that.
Incidentally, my email address is artbell at aol.com.
Artbell at AOL.com.
If you would like to send me a fax, you can do so by dialing area code 702-727-8499.
702-727-8499.
Never, ever more than three pages because it goes into memory first.
Anything in excess of three pages is dumped before it prints.
Anyway, you hear rumors, you know, went after a tragedy like that, and I heard two rumors that I thought would have probably been followed up by some additional information.
One rumor was that there was a man that was on the plane before it took off, and he was told to get off the plane, and he was of Middle East descent, I believe they said.
And they said he might have left something behind.
And also, there were two men that supposedly rented a boat off of the, you know, off the plane.
Let me ask you, if there are men that are suspicious, why don't they put out some composite sketches where they could help with witnesses identifying them?
I'm Mark Bell, and I've got a word here about aliens in Vermont.
It's a follow-up fact to that phone call that took a little while to go about the whole sky there.
Mark, I've spent much time in a small town called Danby, nestled near the Green Mountains near Manchester, Vermont.
I have yet to see an alien here, but I assure you, Vermonters are practical, freedom-loving, hunting type folks.
I'm sure they'd consider aliens game, something to be swung over the car hood like a good deer catch.
I don't think they'd want aliens hiding in their territory.
If they didn't bring one home for dinner, they'd go to the other extreme and fight for alien freedom.
Actually, the alien theory might explain someone we used to hire to cut our fields.
We call him the Mad Moor because of the intricate paths he drew through the grass.
A Vermont version of crop circles.
Yikes.
And then there was this just a little bit earlier.
First it was Lachubacabra, the goat sucker.
Then Dick Morris, the toe sucker, toe cobra.
Now it's the Groundhog Sucker, the Ground Cobra.
On page one of the San Jose Mercury for the 9th of September, there's an article on how a Denver, Colorado company called Dog On uses a truck-mounted vacuum cleaner to suck prairie dogs out of their holes and get this 300 miles per hour.
Perhaps these folks might take care of your rabbits and ground squirrels.
As a follow-up to that, somebody has sent me an entire article showing the insidious machine, and the headline is, Swurp.
Well, this sounds like a political explanation for a local crime.
But I think there's something to it.
Sure.
Some pilots brought back drugs.
The CIA probably had some operations going on.
The DEA probably had some sting stuff going on.
And so, yeah, in a sense, some of it happened.
But are they massively dealing drugs?
I don't think so.
unidentified
Well, I think some kind of investigation should be done on it.
And I don't think Congress is doing anything about it.
You know, I've seen an article where a guy who ran the money laundering operation for one of the cartels, for Escobar's cartel, and he was in there saying that he dealt directly with intelligence agencies, and he made a deal where he shipped drugs to the Contras.
So if you want to debate him, call now any of the other numbers, and if I find a good, active debater in the interest of ideological nonsense, I will allow the two of you to go at it and demonstrate for the entire audience how totally without redeeming value this whole race is presently.
And we'll do that in a moment.
So if you're interested in that debate and want to take them on, now would be the time.
Mr. Bell and my debater here, the Democratic Party backed the Family Leave Act, Medical Leave Act, the Republicans and the right-wingers, they're against that.
Now, you go tell me which party is backing family values.
Look at Head Start.
Look at nutrition.
I live out here in the real world.
i take my paycheck i can't afford to buy it by that You know, we go to the grocery store and we'll get hot dogs and potato chips this time, you know, because, you know, that day, that particular day, maybe we only have $5 to spend or $10 to spend.
You think that's anything spectacular?
I've been going to college for six years.
I've had a full-time job the whole time.
And I've been going full-time college.
I've been working my butt off and going to college, and I don't get any government assistance.
I don't get any federal grants.
I don't get any federal assistance.
So I suppose that you think you put in all this study time and all this, and then you're going to go get a job job.
It's your money, right?
You don't have to earn any.
You don't have to give any of it to taxes.
You know how much tax I give?
I give 32% of my wages to go to taxes.
32%.
I'm a college student.
I'm single.
The United States pays less amount of taxes than any of the industrialized nations in the world.
So what?
What makes us have to be like them?
What are they doing so right?
We'll hear you're crying about spending too much on taxes.
Because I feel that that's my earnings.
That's your earnings, huh?
well i've got news for you buddy boy if you were would have been born in uh...
Is it getting out there and slaving away?
Is it helping me out?
No.
If you grow up someday to be a millionaire, you're going to think, oh, my God, I got all this money.
I made it.
I earned it.
It's mine.
I got news for you, buddy boy.
You aren't conjuring up this money out of magic.
You aren't making money.
What you're doing is using the system.
And by golly, if you make money off the system, you deserve to be somewhere.
It comes from work, period.
If I do the work and I earn it, it's mine.
There should be no reason why I shouldn't have to.
There are other socialist people that believe that the government needs it.
I don't think the government needs my wages and my money.
Why should they?
If people wouldn't go on welfare, maybe if they're in hard times, they can stay on welfare for a couple of years, but then they ought to get out and try to find a job and work.
It's not that hard.
There are jobs everywhere.
What do you mean?
Most of the people, this is the hardest working country in the world.
Most of these poor people out here are working two jobs, sometimes three jobs, and they're doing it because the man won't hire him part-time.
No, the reason why they have to work two and three jobs is because half their money goes to taxes.
Do you understand that if they wouldn't have facts...
My tax bill isn't anything compared to what I have to spend on food.
Oh, no kidding.
Neither is mine.
But if I have 32% more of my money, if we didn't have any taxes, that's 32% of my money.
How much that money that I'm paying out for food is going to the big boys, you know, so they can live on the big house and the hill?
I don't know, but I'll tell you how much is going out in mine.
These government workers, they aren't living on the big house on the hill.
They're living in the little house.
$1,800 every month.
$1,600.
And do you know how much of that goes to taxes out of that gross?
I bring home $800, maybe $900.
And my gross is $1,600.
$700 of my wages go a month to taxes.
And I'm just working.
I'm a college student.
I'm trying to earn my pay.
Wait a minute.
This isn't real.
$700 a month?
How much money did you make?
Huh?
How much money do you make?
I make, like I said, a gross $1,600 every month about, and I get to keep about $900 of it.
Are you including Social Security in that?
Of course I am.
And medical care?
I don't have anything taken out right now as far as you can.
I mean, what do you expect?
Are you going to have this money when you get old?
I pay into 401k.
I do everything I need to do.
But I also have to go to college right now.
Most of my money goes to tuition and food, period, and rent.
That's all I have.
But if I had an extra $700 that they take out in taxes, if I had that, what more could I do?
I could invest more.
I could do lots of things.
I don't think the government's going to take care of me.
I can make better investments than they can.
What do they do?
They take my money and then they give it back to me at the end of the year.
What kind of crap is that?
What are you talking about?
What kind of crap?
Well, look, if I had an extra $700 a month, I could invest that.
I could be taking way more interesting than just giving it to the government for free interest.
That's not taking care of me.
That's screwing me.
And that's what big government is like.
Society, okay.
Number one, it's a complex problem.
You might say, okay, give me my money now.
Give me my money now.
But what happens when the boats come to your state, you know, and boy, you're in a gamble?
Oh, my gosh, I'm hooked on gambling.
Well, there goes your 401.
Well, then when you reach 65 and you're laying out in the field, what are we supposed to do with gambling?
You took your 401 and spend it in the boats, huh?
That's where you're all backwards and stuff.
How am I supposed to be?
I feel that I can take better care of my money than the government can, period.
That's it.
I mean, I was the one that earned it.
I'm the one that worked the job.
I thought we already established that, buddy boy.
You aren't creating money out of nothing.
You're dependent on our society.
You're depending on the government regulating the banks and the financial institutions and providing medicine and all the other millions of things that government does for us.
Oh, so you think that more government is better government?
Is that what you're trying to tell me?
Government is the only way that we can buffer the savageness of these predators that are capitalist.
We've had experiences with it in the past.
You know that look what they used to work the child and talk about unsafe conditions.
The fatality on the workplace would be tenfold if it wasn't for government stepping in.
I try to tell people, Communist China and even Russia, they are not what you think they are.
You know, Red China has not really changed.
They're absorbing a lot of economic activity as much as they can.
But they haven't really changed.
They're hardcore commies.
And as for the Russians, they're trying to tell us they've economically and politically changed.
And that's a bunch of horse stuff.
It's just simply not true.
And they're in a nutshell, you know, those two guys arguing for the last 10 or 15 minutes, whatever time I left them on, was the basic argument that goes on on talk shows hours and hours and hours endlessly, the take from the poor and give to the rich versus the rich and we want to keep it argument.
And that is the argument.
You could put it on for 10 or 15 minutes.
You could repeat it for hours.
It's not going to change.
From both sides, it remains the same argument.
So I don't see any reason why somebody who's basically got something different to say, which is Harry Brown, has got something different for a change to say, can't get in the middle and change the dynamics of the argument for a change.
But they're not going to let that happen.
They're not going to let that happen.
And so that's why we'll probably have Harry Brown on the night of the debate.