Sept. 1, 1996 - Art Bell
01:19:44
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| Mind as yet not mapped, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see. | ||
| This is Dreamland. | ||
| It certainly is. | ||
| Top of the evening to you, everybody. | ||
| I'm Mark Bell. | ||
| And Dreamland on the air once again. | ||
| Now 208 radio stations wide. | ||
| Like to welcome WRUF at the University of Florida, Gamesville, Florida. | ||
| Welcome aboard. | ||
| Good to have you. | ||
| WBOWAM in Cherohaute, Indiana. | ||
| They would be 1230 on the dial. | ||
| Welcome aboard. | ||
| KDDA in Dumas, Arizona. | ||
| Hello, Dumas. | ||
| They're 1560 on the dial. | ||
| And KSIM in Sikeston, Missouri would be 1,400 on the dial. | ||
| Welcome to Dreamland. | ||
| That's a lot of welcoming, isn't it? | ||
| It's going to be a very interesting program, as usual, in a moment. | ||
| We will go to Linda Moulton Howe in Pennsylvania, and she has a fascinating report. | ||
| There are some new things going on, my friend, with the samples at Roswell, the museum samples at Roswell. | ||
| There is a new report in, and she will have that. | ||
| There is a lot more going on as well with respect to evidence on the forming crop circle. | ||
| You may recall that from last week. | ||
| Absolutely fascinating. | ||
| It looks as though they have caught a crop circle forming on videotape. | ||
| So that sort of headlines some of what she is going to tell you about. | ||
| Then comes Dr. Stephen Greer, who heads C SETI. | ||
| You're not going to want to miss that. | ||
| So all of that underway in a moment. | ||
| In two copper and silver fragments and concluded, and I'm quoting from the report, that the isotopic ratios measured for the two fragments are not unusual. | ||
| That is, they are typical of terrestrial values, unquote, which is similar to what we experienced also with our bismuth magnesium isotope analysis. | ||
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Right. | |
| But Mr. Callis did find an anomaly that is similar to the mysterious bismuth magnesium material that I've been investigating now for three months, and which allegedly also came from a crashed UFO in New Mexico. | ||
| What Mr. Callis found that surprised him were alternating layers. | ||
| The silver and copper fragments are thinner than a piece of typing paper, and yet in one piece, there were eight alternating layers of copper and silver. | ||
| And in the second piece, there were 19 alternating layers. | ||
| A scanning electron microscope photograph of the 19 layers that was faxed to me from the museum on Friday shows them to be pretty even in width, almost like the stripes on an American flag. | ||
| Whereas our bismuth magnesium, the bismuth is very thin and the magnesium is thicker, but the layers, the whole idea is we are again in layered structure. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I asked Los Alamos National Lab chemist Larry tell us how thick each of their layers is and this is what he told me. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| That report hopefully coming up. | ||
| Microns might be. | ||
| Okay, just a minute. | ||
| Sometimes. | ||
| Okay, here we go. | ||
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All right. | |
| They're on the order of one-thousandth of an inch thick. | ||
| How many microns might that be? | ||
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That's 25 microns. | |
| So each layer was approximately 25 microns thick, of one of copper and then one of silver and then one of copper like that? | ||
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Right. | |
| This is really thin. | ||
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It's very thin, yes. | |
| And to be made up of 19 alternating layers in one thin piece and eight alternating layers in another thin piece, had you or anyone else who had worked on this in the lab encountered these kind of alternating layers like this before? | ||
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Not really, no. | |
| Did anybody have any idea about its construction and what its use might be? | ||
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Well, nobody that I've talked to, but I mean, we haven't done an extensive search or anything, you know. | |
| Did anybody in the lab have any ideas what it might have been made to do? | ||
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No, but as I say, I haven't really talked to that many people. | |
| Because really, I mean, this was not part of our original agreement. | ||
| I mean, we just sort of noticed this and decided to take a look at it. | ||
| Well, it becomes relevant to a certain degree now that we've got pieces of bismuth and magnesium, about 20 to 25 layers of 1 to 4 microns ranging up to 100 to 200 microns. | ||
| The magnesium layer is thicker, and the bismuth is very thin, and it alternates in the pieces that we've got. | ||
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Well, that's very unusual, I would say. | |
| But I don't really know the explanation. | ||
| There's no one test that will tell you if something is extraterrestrial. | ||
| I mean, no one's ever came up with some sort of cookbook recipe for saying whether something's extraterrestrial. | ||
| The isotope ratios has the best chance of actually proving something is extraterrestrial. | ||
| However, if the ratios come out normal, then it's just one piece of the puzzle. | ||
| You don't really know that much more. | ||
| And Art, as you know, I'm still working with other scientists in different labs who are trying to duplicate the construction of the bismuth magnesium layered material and to try to determine what its function might be. | ||
| But I think it is extremely interesting that an alternating layer at micron-alternating levels has now been found in two pieces of metallic fragments allegedly from a UFO crash. | ||
| So the materials in what they have at the museum are not quite as exotic with reference to the bismuth, but alternating layers. | ||
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I mean, boil, boil, boil, boy. | |
| Yeah, we're back to construction again. | ||
| And as he's pointing out, we may never be able to separate something out in terms of extraterrestrial versus terrestrial in terms of isotopes and elements. | ||
| We could be dealing with an intelligence that's using elements from our own planet to construct things. | ||
| We don't know. | ||
| But if we are up against construction that is unusual, and I'm going to be doing more research on this thin layered metallic structure, see what more I can find out. | ||
| We may come into this from another angle, that the structure of these things may have a similarity that is going to point us in the direction of function, perhaps. | ||
| They are different elements. | ||
| There's copper and silver in one. | ||
| There's bismuth and magnesium in ours with a little lead. | ||
| So they're not the same elements, but we're still at that alternating layer, and they're only microns thick. | ||
| All right, Lynn, if you manage to get the electron scanning microscope photographs, I'd be glad to put them on the website. | ||
| Yes, I'm going to do that, and I want to get that on the website so that the scientists can make that comparison. | ||
| Good, good. | ||
| Now, I'd like to move on to the other mystery that we started last week, the videotape of the glowing objects moving over the wheat field at Oliver's Castle in England on August 11th. | ||
| Last week, I interviewed Nick Nicholson, editor of the Circular Review, who had seen the tape through the black and white viewfinder of the camera owned by the college students. | ||
| Mr. Nicholson said he could not see circles forming. | ||
| But tonight, I have an interview with cross-circle researcher Colin Andrews, who has a color copy of the actual videotape recorded around 5 a.m. | ||
| August 11th from the hilltop at Oliver's Castle, looking down on the wheat fields below, where allegedly there was nothing the day before. | ||
| Colin says the snowflake-like symbol can be seen forming. | ||
| This is Colin Andrews. | ||
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But what I see on the color film is, I have to say, extremely impressive. | |
| There's no fudging the issue that the crop circles are not in the field one moment, and seven seconds later, they are. | ||
| And during that seven seconds, two spheres have come into the viewfinder of the camera, and they're very clear. | ||
| They're as clear as anything I've seen related to these spheres. | ||
| And as I know, you also know, Linda, we have now five or six films with spheres of this kind on them moving about the fields of southern England where the crop circles have formed or are prior to their arrival. | ||
| There is no question that these circles are forming underneath the spheres. | ||
| There are actually four spheres in all. | ||
| As two leave the area, a third one comes in from the west, joined by a fourth which comes up out of the field. | ||
| It actually appears to come out of the cereal crop itself and takes the same roof as the first two spheres, which then also move out of the area very fast. | ||
| So in seven seconds, we have the commencement of the construction of the pattern, which is about a seven to ten feet diameter circle, which you can see the plants are oscillating. | ||
| When you say oscillation, you mean you can actually see the wheat moving back and forth? | ||
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Yes, you can see that the heads of the wheat have been pushed over and that the light is actually casting off of the stems as opposed to the heads. | |
| The central circle of the snowflake pattern is around about 60 or 70 feet in diameter, and the whole of that circle is formed in perfectly two seconds, with the arms then connecting, and further circles over those arms are positioned into the field in less than seven seconds. | ||
| Could you compare what you're seeing in the color tape to the Steve Alexander and the two German students videotapes of several years back? | ||
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Yes, they look very, very similar. | |
| Very similar. | ||
| The spheres that we see here on this film look much, much more like the Stephen Alexander film, but they're not pulsated. | ||
| These, I would say, they're probably self-illuminated. | ||
| They do have a certain shrillness, brilliance to them that would certainly give me the impression that they are self-illuminated. | ||
| But not bright lights. | ||
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No, they're not bright lights. | |
| They're absolutely not. | ||
| They're, I would say, well, you can look at them very easily. | ||
| They're not causing any flare on the camera at all, but they're extremely clear. | ||
| And I would guess that they're probably within about 150 feet of the camera itself. | ||
| So this is the best, the clearest material we've, I think, yet seen of these spheres, if they are real. | ||
| Could you compare the size of them to the tramlines, for example, and just guess about how big each one of these objects is? | ||
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Yes. | |
| The first two to appear, one is a little smaller than the other. | ||
| The larger of the two would be approximately 14, 16, 18 inches perhaps in diameter, but certainly less than 2 feet in diameter. | ||
| And the second, I would say several inches smaller. | ||
| And then they are joined. | ||
| In fact, as they exit the field, in comes a third and then a fourth, and they again compare. | ||
| One is a little smaller than the other and about the same sizes as the first two. | ||
| But there are definitely four spheres. | ||
| And so now the question is, what are these objects? | ||
| And if they are the objects that have been making the formations for the last seven, eight, nine, maybe ten years and back, are they someone's technology or are they in fact some kind of non-human intelligence interaction with these formations? | ||
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Well, that's right. | |
| I mean, I think if we can confirm fairly urgently, fairly soon, the authenticity of this footage, this is going to open up a huge can of worms because I have already established that there was a major NATO military exercise in that area that night. | ||
| There was a military presence in that general area that night. | ||
| And of course, people are already beginning to wonder, well, you know, are these fears some part of our technology? | ||
| And are the military directly involved? | ||
| Well, if they are, there's something here new for us all, for sure. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Advanced technology, regardless of whether it's human-made or other intelligence-made. | ||
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That's right. | |
| I have engaged an agency in England at a personal cost to investigate the cameraman, and I'm saying that publicly, of course, for the first time, but I think that's a responsible thing to do. | ||
| And beyond that, you know, I would want to engage the very best people in the world to analyze this footage. | ||
| As far as the man is concerned, I think we need to be a little more satisfied as to what the motives might be and what he's up to, basically. | ||
| Is it true that he is a student registered at Nottingham University? | ||
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No, it is true that he was a student at Nottingham University, but that is not where he is now. | |
| He is a man that has studied American studies, and he is a man that has certainly some very good contacts in the television and video business. | ||
| But having had a discussion with him and listened to his case as to why he was there, he has been totally shocked by what had happened. | ||
| He also tells me that there were a number of military people leaving the area. | ||
| It looked as if they were map reading on a map rating exercise, but that actually is not that unusual in that part of the country. | ||
| It's a military area. | ||
| But the last person to leave this particular team of military personnel looked at him as they passed and said, did you get what you came for? | ||
| That could mean almost anything, of course. | ||
| It alarmed him because he is of the opinion that they observed or might have been part of in some way what was going on in the field and knew that he had filmed it. | ||
| And Art, I will see Colin in a couple of weeks when he and I are guest speakers at the Project Awareness Conference in Tampa, Florida, September 13th through the 15th. | ||
| And I'll see the tape myself. | ||
| For Dreamland listeners who might be interested in attending this conference and also seeing the videotape, you can call a number for ticket information that is 904-432-8888. | ||
| That's 904-432-8888. | ||
| All right, Linda, hold it there. | ||
| We're at the bottom of the hour, and we'll come back and let you finish off in a moment. | ||
| All right? | ||
| All right, stay right there. | ||
| Linda Molten Howe right now from Philadelphia. | ||
| Spheres. | ||
| A crop circle seen on video forming in seven seconds. | ||
| We are moving forward, aren't we? | ||
| This is Dreamland. | ||
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This is Dreamland. | |
| From the Kingdom of Nine, you're here in Dreamland with Art Bell. | ||
| To participate in the program, call toll-free 1-800-618-8255. | ||
| 1-800-618-8255. | ||
| First time callers, area code 702-727-1222. | ||
| Or the wildcard line at 702-727-1295. | ||
| This is the CBC Radio Network. | ||
| It sure is. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| You're listening to Dreamland. | ||
| Let us quickly go and finish with Linda Molten Howe. | ||
| Linda, a remarkable report smears in the air. | ||
| A crop circle forming in seven seconds flat. | ||
| All of this on videotape. | ||
| The ball is beginning to move forward. | ||
| Yeah, and you know that seven seconds time for the formation is consistent with the work of Dr. W.C. Levengood, the biophysicist that I've worked with the last five years. | ||
| And when I did the book Glimpses of Other Realities, Dr. Leavingood was just beginning to get a synthesis of his own material and looking at patterns. | ||
| And one of the pieces, I'll say, of his puzzle data that's in the book and that he has emphasized since is that he never found cooked plants. | ||
| And yet, some of the changes at the cellular level and in the cell pits would be consistent with something like microwave exposure, but it could not be longer than 30 or 40 seconds because the plants would be cooked. | ||
| We don't know the frequency of the energy that is exposed to the plants, but Dr. Levinged at this point is convinced that some kind of a plasma, an intense energy that has a whirling motion is definitely involved in its interaction with the cereal crops in the formation. | ||
| All right, no matter what the source, it's a big story. | ||
| Linda, we need to get your address and information on the air. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| For people who are interested in my books and the documentaries, I have an 800 toll-free number that's 800-707-9993. | ||
| That's 800-707-9993. | ||
| And you can also leave a short message there. | ||
| For people who can fax, it's 215-491-9842. | ||
| 215-491-9842. | ||
| And the address is Post Office Box 300 Jameson, Pennsylvania, J-A-M-I-S-O-N-P-A. | ||
| And the zip code is 1-8929. | ||
| And this will be very interesting, Colin, to see how this keeps unfolding with this videotape. | ||
| All right, as soon as we get any photographs, of course, webpage. | ||
| Webpage, web page. | ||
| All right, Linda, thank you very, very much. | ||
| And we'll talk to you next week. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Take care. | ||
| That's Linda Bolton Howe. | ||
| And that's a remarkable report. | ||
| In a moment, Dr. Stephen Greer from CSETI, the VTEC 950 digital cordless telephone is on sale enough for much longer at this price. | ||
| It is a 900 megahertz phone. | ||
| That means up above cellular. | ||
| It has, well, I'll list the advantages. | ||
| It is totally digital. | ||
| Not just with digital security, but it breaks your voice down into yeses and noes, transmits them, and reassembles them on the other end, kind of a Phone version of the Star Trek transporter or something. | ||
| The result is this telephone delivers to you audio as clear as a phone you plug into the wall. | ||
| Better than a lot of them. | ||
| In other words, perfectly clear, crisp audio on a portable phone. | ||
| Number two, it's private. | ||
| Nobody with a scanner or another portable phone can listen to a word you say. | ||
| It's nothing but white noise. | ||
| I mean, it's just totally unintelligible. | ||
| You don't even know there's a transmission being made. | ||
| It's remarkable. | ||
| Number three, I get a mile distance from mine. | ||
| You may get more or less, but I get a mile from mine. | ||
| And those are three good reasons to take your old phone and throw it away. | ||
| Here's the deal. | ||
| You get the 950 digital cordless phone. | ||
| You get an extra battery pack and a charger. | ||
| All for $159.95. | ||
| Before they're gone, you get one. | ||
| To get one, call C. Crane Tuesday morning. | ||
| They're closed tomorrow for Labor Day. | ||
| Call them Tuesday morning at 7.30 at 1-800-522-8863. | ||
| That's 1-800-522-8863. | ||
| Have you seen the new $100 bills the government's come out with? | ||
| They certainly are ugly. | ||
| Do you believe these were issued simply to stop counterfeiting, as the government tells us? | ||
| Or do you think there might be something else going on? | ||
| Do you know your government spent $32 million with public relations just to get you to accept the new money now? | ||
| For the rest of the story, this new bill is only the first step in a sequence of events that the government has planned for you, and more importantly, your money. | ||
| These events are designed to put more restrictions on what you can do with your own money. | ||
| May even lead to a planned evaluation of the American dollar. | ||
| You must find out what these plans are, and you must begin to take steps to protect yourself and your family. | ||
| Call my friends at North American Trading at 1-800-877-9799. | ||
| Ask for the rest of the story on the new money. | ||
| This information is absolutely free, and you can't afford to be without it. | ||
| So call 1-800-877-9799. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Dr. Greer, Dr. Stephen M. Greer, is widely regarded as the world's foremost authority on the subject of extraterrestrial intelligence and the founder of the international director of the Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence, or CSETI. | ||
| A lifetime member of Alpha Omega Alpha, the nation's most prestigious medical honors society, Dr. Greer is an emergency physician and former chairman of the Department of Emergency Medicine at Caldwell Memorial Hospital in North Carolina. | ||
| He, as director of CSETI, has led research teams throughout the world investigating the existence of ETI, extraterrestrial intelligence, and on several occasions has successfully established preliminary contact and communication with extraterrestrial spacecraft at close range. | ||
| He has met with and provided briefings for senior members of government, military, and intelligence operations in the U.S. and around the world, including senior CIA officials, joint chiefs of staff, | ||
| White House staff, senior members of Congress, and congressional committees, senior U.N. leadership and diplomats, senior military officials in the United Kingdom and Europe, and cabinet-level members of the Japanese government, among others. | ||
| My oh my, and comes to us right now, Dr. Stephen Greer. | ||
| Doctor, are you there? | ||
| Yes, I am. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| You really have been a busy man, haven't you? | ||
| Well, yes, we have been busy, particularly the last two or three years. | ||
| It's been a very intense period of collecting data and witnesses to this issue, as well as briefing world leaders. | ||
| So we've had a full plate. | ||
| All right, we talked for just a second before you got on the air, and with this video of a crop circle forming in seven seconds below spheres, with the research on the various metals that have been purported to be from Roswell, with news on Mars life within a meteorite, with news of the possibility of life on Europa, the ball has been moving forward at an ever-increasing rate. | ||
| I've never seen news breaking like this. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I think it's just a prelude to something that will be unfolding in the next coming months and years where we will have an official and final confirmation on the detection of extraterrestrial life forms in near-Earth proximity, which is one of the projects we're working on. | ||
| And I think a lot of what we're seeing, both in the area of the phenomenon itself as well as things that are coming out from officialdom, is in part a result from the kind of very intense strategy that we've developed through a project known as Project Starlight that got launched about three years ago this summer. | ||
| What is that? | ||
| Well, Project Starlight was initially sort of an internal code name which we used for an effort to collect the best evidence on this issue and begin to meet with the various world leaders and people who run the government out of Washington and elsewhere about this matter and to persuade them that the time had come for a reversal on the secrecy surrounding the subject and to move it into a full disclosure mode. | ||
| And I think we're beginning to see the fruits of that. | ||
| Dr. Doctor, let me stop you. | ||
| That's very strong. | ||
| In other words, it would seem to be something to, in essence, try to force their hand. | ||
| And so how does it do that? | ||
| In other words, what is within Starlight, if you can talk about it, that pushes that ball forward? | ||
| Well, if I have a couple of minutes I can get into in some detail, and I'd like to give you an analogy. | ||
| These metal samples from Roswell, for example, are interesting, and it's a good piece of evidence if it holds up. | ||
| The question is, if you were to put a fully and real autopsy extraterrestrial life form, as well as a fully operational disc, in front of the American people, the world population, a good percentage of them, without any other corroborating vetting of it, would tell you that it was done by Steven Stielberg or George Lucas at Industrial Light Magic. | ||
| And I'm not being cheeky here. | ||
| I really think that's the exception. | ||
| And so that kind of thing is important, but it has to be added to something else. | ||
| And what we have been working on is identifying what can only be called whistleblowers or to use a Watergate term, deep-throat witnesses who have been inside covert programs and who we are collecting together into a coalition of witnesses and who are willing to come forward with this information in a definitive way. | ||
| And the reason this is important is because humans are social animals. | ||
| And if you have at the UN or through a congressional hearing, 20 or 30 of the world's heroes and astronauts and people who have been military heroes in various countries who are standing there in front of the world saying, this subject is real. | ||
| It is of immense importance that it be disclosed to the world. | ||
| Here is what I have personally seen or handled. | ||
| That would change things more than actually putting an ET on the screen or an actual E.T. craft on the screen. | ||
| So part of our strategy has been identifying and putting these people into a coalition, collecting their witness testimony, and then in a preliminary sense, briefing people in the White House and at the UN and at the agency and other facilities saying, look, this is what we have, this is what we intend to do with it, and we believe it's time for there to be a definitive change in the secrecy surrounding this subject. | ||
| And that has actually been met with very positive results and very positive attitudes. | ||
| I've been actually quite heartened by that. | ||
| Who, for example, would you cite, or what position have you, of any government official have you presented with this evidence so far? | ||
| Well, we have met with specific leaders in the Congress, congressmen who have taken it very seriously and who are actually making some inquiries for us at this point. | ||
| We have been able to present this to senior people in the government. | ||
| I really am not at liberty to say who they are. | ||
| No, you don't need to. | ||
| But I can tell you that they would come with a full secret service detail, et cetera, and so on. | ||
| Very senior people. | ||
| And the interesting thing about this is that these people are, number one, not questioning that this is true, but number two, have without exception, and this is not only in the United States, but also at the senior levels of the United Nations and in Europe, told us that while they suspect these programs are ongoing, they have never been briefed on them. | ||
| So it's sort of like going through the looking glass. | ||
| We have sort of, and this we didn't intentionally have this happen, it sort of happened serendipitously, began to be a group that was providing data and briefings to people who we initially thought would have been in the loop, but who turned out to be quite out of the loop on these sort of covert projects and information. | ||
| All right, let me stop you for one second there. | ||
| There is a new NBC series coming up this fall called Dark Skies. | ||
| Yes, I've seen that. | ||
| Matter of fact, I'm going to be advertising it. | ||
| I've seen the two-hour first episode because we're dealing directly with NBC. | ||
| And I will only say this to you. | ||
| It is contended, and this is really nothing new, that there is a group, a subgroup below our federal government, the highest levels of it, that has been controlling this kind of information for years and years and years. | ||
| Is that roughly what you contend? | ||
| That's what it sounds like? | ||
| Well, certainly that's how this would operate. | ||
| And talking to people who are, for example, heads of the Ministry of Defense in the UK, I've met with very, very senior people in the CIA and elsewhere. | ||
| They will tell you that something like this, the only way you could keep it quiet would be to do two things. | ||
| One is that it would operate under the auspices of what's called a USAP, USAP, and this is a proper term for a deep black project that's unacknowledged, and it stands for unacknowledged special access project. | ||
| And there are many special access projects. | ||
| They're just very top secret compartmentalized. | ||
| But the unacknowledged ones, what that means is that if you're my general and I'm a colonel and you ask me about a project that I'm involved in that happens to be a USAP, an unacknowledged special access project, my instructions are to go to you, even though you're my commanding officer and senior, and say, sir, no such project exists. | ||
| And that is exactly how it operates. | ||
| But that's only about 25% of the efficacy of keeping something like this secret. | ||
| Because the real action is going on in covert projects under what's termed work for other programs or contract projects, where you have private corporations which are doing most of the intense security work, most of the intense R ⁇ D on reverse engineering extraterrestrial facilities and technologies and objects and this sort of thing. | ||
| And those then have a layer of protection not only through the USAPS mechanism, but they have a layer of secrecy because of proprietary interests of corporate entities. | ||
| And I point out to people that President Clinton cannot get the formula for Coca-Cola. | ||
| It's locked in Atlanta, and it doesn't matter who he is, he can't get that information. | ||
| Yes, well, there's a level of secrecy that transcends even national liberty issues. | ||
| Let's find out how far it goes. | ||
| Doctor, for example, I'll just ask you straight out. | ||
| Is it possible that our president, President Clinton, is only told what he needs to know? | ||
| Well, it's worse than that. | ||
| He and people like him and senior people who have worked with him that we have met with have told us that they are told less than what they need to know and that even when a direct inquiry is made, I mean a directed inquiry is made, that they still come up goose eggs in terms of being told what's actually happening. | ||
| This is, of course, dangerous because it indicates that there's a breach in the chain of command, which is supposed to be guaranteed by the Constitution. | ||
| And I don't know how much time we had to get into what the implications of this are, but what we have found is that the way this whole thing has been managed, while I think it was set up initially with the best of intentions, has probably spun sideways enough that it's probably operating out of any proper chain of command control. | ||
| All right. | ||
| I am not a great constitutional scholar, Doctor. | ||
| But if you look at the constitutional questions that are generated by such a possibility, could you cite how we would call this strictly unconstitutional? | ||
| Well, to withhold that kind of information from the top of government? | ||
| If a specific inquiry is made and information is not provided, that is a de facto breach of constitutional chain of command. | ||
| And we know that has happened. | ||
| I mean, you know, I've worked with a man who was on Ronald Reagan's National Security Council staff who said, well, you know, that happened all the time, that if the president asked about something and we didn't want him to know, we didn't tell him. | ||
| And when I told him that I was shocked at that, he laughed and said, well, how can you be so naive? | ||
| This is done frequently. | ||
| But the point is, is that on something this important, if you really want to keep it secret, and this is something that Lord Hill Norton told me when I was meeting with him a few months ago, or last year it actually was in England. | ||
| And he had been head of the Ministry of Defense, and he now knows the subject is real. | ||
| But as an MOD head, an MI5 head, he never heard anything about it. | ||
| Well, I heard that story from senior people in the Senate, senior people in our government and other governments. | ||
| And the only way that can happen is for these youth apps to be operating in a very much off-the-radar sort of way, and to have most of the really intense R ⁇ D projects going on in private corporate entities, which have black budget funding and which have funding sources that are multinational and extraordinary. | ||
| And that is, I believe, what we have going on. | ||
| We've been able to actually put this together pretty well. | ||
| But I think that's of less interest to people, I think, in your audience, I would think, than what we're intending to do with this. | ||
| And that is to basically request that there be hearings through the Congress, and failing that, an event through the United Nations where these witnesses can come forward. | ||
| And I would like to say this now and say it a couple of times over the course of the next couple of hours that we have, and to say that one of the most important things that we need, more so than metal samples, because again, I think those are only going to be so convincing, are to have people who are patriotic, not only to our country, but a sense of the needs of the world in 1996, to come forward who know specifics about these programs. | ||
| And we have a program in place for not only their identification and protection, but for being ensured that their testimony and information is heard at the correct levels of government and leadership around the world. | ||
| So this is extremely important because the people around the world have to understand that if we're going to ever move this subject forward in a definitive way, it will require a number of courageous people to step forward and say, look, I have worked on these projects. | ||
| I have seen X, Y, and Z firsthand. | ||
| And I believe that before I die, that it is very important for this information to make its way to the public. | ||
| Doctor, you are, in effect, asking people to come forward and to breach written secrecy agreements that you and I both know they have signed, correct? | ||
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That's correct. | |
| And we are doing that deliberately. | ||
| And I will say to you that the only way that this works is because these people are put into a coalition. | ||
| In other words, if you do this one at a time, and I think the UFO subculture have made a lot of mistakes in this area, you don't do this. | ||
| You don't dribble this stuff out one witness at a time because, A, it has no intended effect. | ||
| The intended effect of making a disclosure doesn't work because there's not critical mass. | ||
| Number two, it's very dangerous because if you have one person doing this at a time or two or three people doing this, they're vulnerable. | ||
| But if you have 20 or 30 of these people doing it at the same time and at an appropriate venue, in other words, you don't do this through a conference at the Holiday Inn or someplace. | ||
| You do this through an event at the United Nations or through Congress or some other suitable venue that has the gravitas and has the prestige to make a difference, and you have the right people there. | ||
| So we're putting out a call, and this is why I'm speaking about this really for the first time on a public program, to say anyone who knows someone like this or anyone listening who is such a person should contact us because we are deliberately gathering these people together and encouraging them to do the right thing on something that is arguably one of the most important issues facing the human race in IT. | ||
| All right, let's say I'm one of those people, Doctor, and I say to you, look, I signed a secrecy agreement. | ||
| How would you appeal to me and say there's a higher reason for you to come forward? | ||
| Well, we have found we haven't had to do that once they understand that we have a credible strategy in place to make good use of their information. | ||
| Now, let me just say that. | ||
| No one has really voiced that concern because they realize that action is not going to be taken against a couple of dozen heroes of our country and of other countries when they come out all at once. | ||
| They're not that concerned about safety and numbers. | ||
| They're safety and numbers. | ||
| But the other thing is that most of these people have realized a long time ago that the justification for this type of program ended some time ago, and certainly it ended with the termination of the Cold War. | ||
| And what we have advised the White House and what we have advised other national security leaders in this country and elsewhere is that with the end of the Cold War, the rationale for many of these deep black projects has ended and that it is essential that we move in the direction of a certain type of glassinos within our own system on this and other related subjects. | ||
| And the implications are not hard for these people to understand that the technology, for example, related to these extraterrestrial devices would obviate the need to continue to use polluting sources of energy. | ||
| Well, I mean, quite frankly, to quote from Al Gore's book title, Earth is in the balance here. | ||
| We're talking about whether or not we're going to have a sustainable civilization on this planet. | ||
| You've got to hold it right there. | ||
| We're at the bottom of the hour. | ||
|
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Standby. | |
| We'll be right back to you. | ||
| CSETI's Stephen Greer, Dr. Stephen Greer, back. | ||
| This is Dreamland. | ||
|
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Dreamland. | |
| From the Kingdom of Nye, we continue with your calls on Dreamland with Art Bell. | ||
| Call Art Now toll-free at 1-800-618-8255. | ||
| 1-800-618-TALK. | ||
| First time callers, Area Code 702-727-1222, 702-727-1222. | ||
| Or the wildcard line at Area Code 702-727-1295. | ||
| 727-1295 in the 702 area code. | ||
| Now again, here's Arkback. | ||
| My guest is Dr. Stephen Greer from C SETI. | ||
| Very exciting stuff, and we'll get right back to it after this. | ||
| GMX is Stephen Greer of CSETI, and we're talking about Project Starlight that's probably going to blow the top right off everything. | ||
| And just so that we might understand where the good doctor stands, Doctor, if you don't mind, I've got a quick question for you. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Let us presume that Starlight is the proof that cannot be denied or will force the hand of government people, and I mean force it. | ||
| Let's assume for a second that you're all set to go and you're going to lay Starlight out to these various high-level people, and you get a knock on your door, boom, boom, knock, knock, knock. | ||
| And here is a fellow or two fellows in a suit, and they say, let's sit down, Dr. Greer. | ||
| We've got to have a talk. | ||
| Yeah, that's happened already. | ||
| Well, all right. | ||
| It's an appeal that I would like to see how you handled. | ||
| In other words, look, Doctor, for national security reasons, we are asking you to cooperate. | ||
| You are, we presume, a patriot. | ||
| This is information that simply can't get out yet. | ||
| What about it, Doctor? | ||
| Well, the point that we make to them is that that's simply not true. | ||
| And, you know, not too long ago, I had a, I was at Barry Goldwater's house outside Phoenix. | ||
| And, you know, he said to me, you know, it was a damn mistake then the way this thing was managed, and it's a damn mistake now. | ||
| And I agree with him. | ||
| And you don't correct a mistake by compounding it by prolonging it. | ||
| And the point that I would make to them is that even if there were arguably good national security reasons to keep this thing quiet 50 years ago, the point is 1996 is not 1946 or 1956. | ||
| And the world simply cannot continue to go on in the manner in which it has over the last 30 or 40 years at denying this thing and also withholding the world from coming to grips with this issue. | ||
| And that's a very important point, is that if you look at the foregone opportunities, what we have lost as a people, we simply can't afford to do that. | ||
| And I'm not just speaking here advanced technological systems that will replace the internal combustion engine. | ||
| I'm talking about a shift in consciousness that will occur as people begin to realize that we're not alone in the universe, that we're one people on this planet, and that we need to begin to put the capability in place to interact in a non-hostile and peaceful way with peoples from other planets. | ||
| That's not going on right now. | ||
| Right now, we're in a situation where this is a subject that's off almost everyone's radar scope, including a lot of our national security people. | ||
| And therefore, there's a lot of risk of something that needs the attention of the world community going without that attention. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, look, let's leave the national security part of it for just a second. | ||
| You're beginning to touch the social aspect, so I'll ask you about this. | ||
| The Brookings report, I know that you know about it. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| It virtually suggests that so many paradigms, scientific paradigms, social would be very disturbed, religious. | ||
| It goes on and on. | ||
| I mean, this is a non-trivial matter. | ||
| So how do you get past that one, the social aspect of it? | ||
| It is a huge, big deal. | ||
| I mean, I'm not going to, please don't let anyone, take from what I said, think that we haven't thought about these implications. | ||
| There's almost nothing that would have the implications a disclosure like this would have. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| But I think that we get kind of locked into a retro view on society and also a very patronizing and patriarchal view. | ||
| And that is to say, oh, well, the people can't handle it. | ||
| The people can handle a lot. | ||
| We handled the advent and the detonation of the first nuclear weapon. | ||
| We didn't all split our throats when we found out that we had a policy of mutually assured destruction with tens of thousands of nuclear warheads aimed between us and the Soviet Union, where a misidentification of something could have resulted in the annihilation of the world. | ||
| I think the world can handle this now. | ||
| And I point out to people that the Brookings report may have had some validities in the 50s and 60s. | ||
| I doubt it has validity now in the 90s. | ||
| Would there be certain kinds of changes that would result from this? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Would they be all negative? | ||
| No. | ||
| Most of them would be positive. | ||
| And even the ones that would be somewhat unsettling at the outset, I think in the long run, would end up being very positive and healthy for society. | ||
| I think ultimately, though, there's a bigger question here, and that is democracy and a constitutional democracy such as the United States and Europe and other places can only be valid to the extent that the people are informed and to the extent that secrecy is contained to truly essential projects. | ||
| Now, there may be aspects of this technology which is not appropriate to be divulged at this point because we have rogue states like North Korea and Iraq and other places. | ||
| However, I point out to people, we also don't have those states possessing thermonuclear weapons. | ||
| And, in fact, you and I can't go down and buy the trigger for a thermonuclear weapon, even though we live in the United States. | ||
| You can control some of these aspects, but what you don't do is continue to deny and deceive and keep the subject in its totality from the body politic of the world. | ||
| All right, I understand. | ||
| I understand, but I want to stop you again for a second. | ||
| And I'm not being contentious just for the hell of it. | ||
| I'm doing it for the betterment of this conversation because you're making a very convincing argument. | ||
| Doctor, I just got back from Russia. | ||
| You know, the Free World thinks that Russia is now a free place, and they're wrong. | ||
| Russia is still pretty much a police state, Doctor. | ||
| I was watched very carefully. | ||
| They've still got nuclear devices. | ||
| They claim they're not aimed at us anymore, But you and I both know retargeting can be done in a very short time. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| The situation there, Yeltsin is either close to death or extremely sick. | ||
| It's very fluid. | ||
| It could change. | ||
| There could be a revolution there. | ||
| Any number of things could happen. | ||
| Russia is a downright mess. | ||
| It's very unstable. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| So, in other words, the threat is not by any means totally gone. | ||
| And on that, you can base a case that we still need deep, dark technological secrets. | ||
| How would you counter that? | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Well, I think there probably is a need for certain technological aspects of this to be kept in a secret fashion until the world becomes a little more stable than it is now. | ||
| And that's probably an understatement. | ||
| It needs to become a lot more stable than it is now. | ||
| But that begs a larger question, and that is, as I mentioned, you can't go out and buy a nuclear trigger for a nuclear weapon, but you know they exist. | ||
| And the point here is that if the world could come to grips with the fact that we're not alone in the universe, that would cause geopolitical and other changes. | ||
| And it would cause a change, quite frankly, in how we view ourselves and our sort of cosmological framework that ICE believe, and national security people that I've spoken to about this also believe, will have, over a five or ten year period, a salutary effect, a very beneficial effect in how the world is operating. | ||
| We will begin to look at all these little internec squabbles and differences between economic systems or religious systems and what have you in a much longer range view because we're suddenly going to have the perspective of seeing this planet as one world that has to begin to deal with the fact that we have other planetary societies out there that are already landing on terra firma and which require our attention. | ||
| I think that will change things, not overnight, but relatively speaking, very quickly in a very positive way, and ironically, will redound to the benefit of society and to long-term geopolitical stability. | ||
| And that's an analysis and an argument that we have made to various leaders around the world as we've been going through the same questions that you're presenting. | ||
| Of course, it's been presented to us by various people in leadership positions. | ||
| All right, we'll try this one. | ||
| I would charge, for example, that such a revelation, when understood, would inevitably result in a very deep erosion, fairly quick erosion, of nationalism. | ||
| Well, it may change nationalism. | ||
| I don't believe that it would necessarily change a certain same degree of patriotic qualities. | ||
| I mean, you know, my family in North Carolina fought in the American Revolution, were one of the original founders of the United States. | ||
| And I consider myself a very patriotic and proud American. | ||
| My uncle designed a lunar module that landed on the moon. | ||
| You know, I feel very strongly about this country, but I also love the Earth, the whole world, and I regard the world as our first homeland. | ||
| And I think another perspective will be added to this, and that is that we'll begin to view ourselves as sentient life forms and that we are one of many intelligent life forms in the universe. | ||
| And I don't believe that that has to detract from the sense that we can be proud of being Americans any more than being an American means that I don't enjoy living in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina. | ||
| You see what I'm saying? | ||
| It's not a zero-sum game. | ||
| Now, will it ameliorate or at least temporize some of the extremes of nationalism that have been very destructive in the 20th century? | ||
| Yes, I think it will, but I see, again, I think that's a positive thing and not a negative. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Fair enough. | ||
| Let us discuss the nature of, if you wouldn't mind, what we know about, excuse the quotes, them, end quote. | ||
| In other words, the nature of who they are and what they want and what the interaction will be will dictate, of course, where we go with dealing with them. | ||
| So who are they? | ||
| Well, you know, at this point, I can say with some confidence that there's at least one and probably several extraterrestrial life forms and phenotypes or body types from various planetary systems that are involved with a project with our planet. | ||
| It's my opinion that they are working together, and this is quite contrary to the folklore and the UFO subculture. | ||
| It is. | ||
| And I'm quite convinced of it. | ||
| And I'm also quite convinced that they do not have overtly hostile intentions, but they have extraordinary concern about our capacity for hostility. | ||
| And to that end, certain things have happened which have been misinterpreted by certain military and intelligent assets in the United States and elsewhere as being signs of hostility. | ||
| Let me give you an example. | ||
| There have been restrictions, I understand, in certain aspects of how we can look into space, where we're looking into space, and how far we can go into space. | ||
| Now, taken from a purely anthropocentric perspective, one in charge of such projects could say, oh, well, you know, these life forms are very friendly to us. | ||
| But I believe what's actually going on is that they view us as being still a bit immature because of our history of extraordinary genocidal violence. | ||
| I mean, you look at this, we've killed almost 200 million people in just this century alone in warfare. | ||
| And so that there is a sense that they perhaps do not believe that we're at that state of maturity that we may wish that we were in. | ||
| And so I think there have been, you know, wars are made out of miscommunications and people misinterpreting the motives of various sides. | ||
| And what CSETI has mapped out through our CE5 initiative is to go to people and say, look, we don't really know fully why they're here, but let's go out there and try to establish bilateral and eventually multilateral communication with these life forms without prejudice and without any assumptions about whether they're here for whatever reasons. | ||
| I think people get way too speculative on this. | ||
| But I think on balance, I have a very hard time being convinced that they're here for an overtly hostile purpose, a la Independence Day and this terrible show that's coming up called Dark Skies that you Referred to earlier. | ||
| But my point here is that we have to be very careful when you're dealing with something here that's not science fiction, but something that's real, that we not go off half-cocked making all kinds of wild assumptions and conclusions. | ||
| And it's my opinion that if we gave this a chance, a sort of a rational but somewhat visionary chance at trying to communicate with these life forms, that we would find that indeed there was some common ground and that we do not need to get either worked up into fear or any kind of conflict-oriented mode. | ||
| I'm afraid, however, that there have been a lot of misunderstandings that have happened in the past. | ||
| All right, let me ask you about this. | ||
| We've had several Mars probes, as have the Russians, that have come to suspicious, untimely ends. | ||
| We are going to launch more Mars probes. | ||
| Are you suspicious these probes were destroyed? | ||
| Well, there are certainly people I'm working with here and in the Soviet Union who feel that. | ||
| I don't personally have any direct evidence that that's the case. | ||
| I could see the theoretical case why that would be the case. | ||
| You have to understand that if we are viewed, I mean, if you came to our planet from somewhere outside our solar system and saw 200 million people being killed by the likes of Stalin and Hitler and Saddam Hussein, et cetera, and so on, and also saw that the United States and the Soviet Union had 40,000 nuclear warheads aimed at each other in a stated policy of mutually assured destruction, where if one launched, everyone would launch everything they had, which would destroy the planet. | ||
| You could be excused a little bit from viewing us as somewhat of a violent race whose technologies have evolved faster than our consciousness or our spirituality or our maturity has evolved. | ||
| And so I think that that can explain some of the things that people have been concerned about. | ||
| Well, then what makes you think we're ready? | ||
| Look, if something came down, if it didn't come down with the protection of landing on the south lawn of the White House or something, obviously that'd be very protected, by the way. | ||
| Well, yeah, right. | ||
| If it came down, I am convinced, Doctor, that those religious people out there, for example, who think that all of this sort of thing represents the work of the devil, would fill these little guys full of so much lead so quickly that they wouldn't land. | ||
| I mean, the problem is you're always going to have your lunatic fringe. | ||
| You have to remember that 5% of Americans do not believe we went to the moon. | ||
| Oh, I know. | ||
| Okay, you know, my uncle designed the damn thing that took Neil Armstrong there. | ||
| What I'm saying to you is that you can't, yes, there are going to be factions and lunatic fringe from various aspects of society. | ||
| And by the way, I think in the UFO subculture, some of the most virulent, paranoid things you will ever hear when you go to one of these conferences. | ||
| But the point here is that if you look at what Billy Graham has said on this, if you look at things that have been said from people I know at the Vatican, I think most of the planet would have a reasonable response to this if the disclosure is rational, neutral, not xenophobic, and not inflammatory. | ||
| And see, this is one of the problems. | ||
| You have to be very careful at how you speak about this thing. | ||
| If you get up and say, Jesus, the sky is falling, and there are extraterrestrials here that are here to eat us for lunch, and they have body parts and vats and underground facilities that they have for snacks, and all the crazy stuff you hear sort of in the public domain, well, yes, of course people would be terrified. | ||
| But I think if you approach this in a way that's more scientific and more rational and say, look, we are being visited by advanced life forms. | ||
| They have not taken over any part of the earth. | ||
| There's no evidence that they are overtly hostile. | ||
| But let us come together as a world civilization to figure out how we might respond to these life forms in a way that does not harm us, does not harm them, but that offers some future together that would be mutually beneficial. | ||
| And I think that's the argument that from the bully pulpit, the statesmen and the leaders that I've spoken to need to be able to speak about this subject in that way. | ||
| All right. | ||
| We'll hold it right there. | ||
| We're at the bottom of the hour. | ||
| Relax. | ||
| We'll be back to you. | ||
| And when we do get back, I'm going to ask you, because that's what we all want. | ||
| I would much prefer they be nice guys than bad guys. | ||
| I think we all would. | ||
| But we should look rationally at what evidence there is for that, which is what we will do in a moment. | ||
|
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The End From the Kingdom of Nineveh, you're here in Greenland with Art Bell. | |
| To participate in the program, call toll-free, 1-800-618-8255. | ||
| 1-800-618-8255. | ||
| First time callers, area code 702-727-1222. | ||
| Or the wildcard line at 702-727-1295. | ||
| This is the CBC Radio Network. | ||
| It certainly is. | ||
| I'm Art Bell, and my guest for CCETI is Dr. Stephen M. Greer. | ||
| Back in a moment. | ||
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| Well, all right. | ||
| A very, very compelling case from Dr. Greer. | ||
| C said he's Dr. Greer. | ||
| And, Doctor, before I ask you another question, I would like you to, if you don't mind, I know that you've got some things that the average person, materials that they can order or purchase or whatever. | ||
| What have you got? | ||
| Well, we have a number of research papers on what our findings are, not only in terms of our assessment of the whole subject matter, but also some of the field encounters we've had in England, Belgium, Mexico, Latin America, around the world, where we have put teams out into the field and where we have had near-landing and landing situations with these craft. | ||
| And they're very interesting reports. | ||
| We also have audiotape and videotape of a presentation that I have made that has quite a bit of footage. | ||
| The interesting thing is that the videotape has about 12 minutes and about 20 different sightings on it. | ||
| And then at the end of it, the videotape shows an extraordinary close encounter we had about two months ago in Colorado where we had one of these crafts come at very low altitude and we were able to videotape it for a couple of minutes as it signaled to us. | ||
| So these are things that people can order. | ||
| We also have a training kit so that if people who want to actually go out into the field and do training on the subject of trying to establish contact with these life forms, there's a very detailed training kit that we have. | ||
| So these things people can order, and there's an 800 number. | ||
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| That's 800-716-6198. | ||
| All right, is that a 24-hour number? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| So they could actually call it right now. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Now, let's circle back to what we were doing at the bottom of the hour for a second here. | ||
| I think you dismiss as horrible some of these portrayals of aliens or even reports, and there have been many well-documented cases where the contact doctor was not necessarily friendly. | ||
| So on what basis or what rational evidence can you present that that kind of stuff is wrong and that these extraterrestrials have nothing but good intentions? | ||
| Well, we don't say that. | ||
| We say that we don't really know the full reason of why they're here yet. | ||
| And, of course, the fact that someone had an encounter that frightened them does not mean necessarily that it was something that was necessarily hostile because that's a subjective reaction. | ||
| We don't really know what's the motive behind some of these encounters. | ||
| But I think beyond that, what your audience needs to know is that 90 to 99 percent of the sort of things that they will hear on this subject, in my opinion, is not necessarily accurate. | ||
| And what I want to say here, and this is perhaps going to be one of the more controversial things that anyone will have ever said on your show, is that, for example, the abduction field is absolutely filled with encounters that people have had not with extraterrestrial or UFO type things, but with hoaxed events that have been done by deceptive covert projects that are purely human in nature. | ||
| And let me give you an example of how far the deceptive interest in this will go. | ||
| There's a person I'm working with who's been an NPR reporter and a public radio reporter for many years, very respected person, who Started digging into this and found out about some facilities where there was a lot of activity going on related to this matter and related to some research and development reverse engineering projects. | ||
| He had somebody who was assigned to him, turned out it was a woman who had been trained to be virtually an automaton robot in terms of her capacity. | ||
| She had extraordinary psychic abilities. | ||
| She had extraordinary special abilities that she had been trained to do. | ||
| She had been physically altered so that she looked like, quote, a hybrid between an extraterrestrial, alleged extraterrestrial, and a human. | ||
| Well, to make a long story short, it turned out after they were able to photograph this person at a distance with the telephoto lens that her eyes, which had been main to look like they were reptilian eyes with vertical slits, had been altered with implanted contact lens type objects that had been put in there artificially. | ||
| And when confronted on this, she broke down and it turns out she had been assigned by a covert cell to this person to provide him with all kinds of disinformation and frightening scenarios and all kinds of fantastic stories of human extraterrestrial hybrid programs. | ||
| What I mean to say to people is that I think the population has been extremely gullible and has been very exposed, in my opinion, to extraordinary things that are not what they appear to be. | ||
| And what I always say to people is, is it real or is it Memorex? | ||
| And I think you've got to be very, very diligent to get to the bottom of what's really going on before you can answer that question. | ||
| Okay, but let's go with that. | ||
| And let's say it's Memorex. | ||
| And let's say there is a group unnamed, not necessarily at the top of government, perpetrating all of this, all of this hoax or baloney, and some of it is baloney generated on its own by hoaxers. | ||
| Look, Doctor, that means that we're dealing with a group that for whatever their motivations, certainly if they're willing to go to these lengths to mislead us with regard to the intentions of them, then we're dealing with a group that isn't about to say, Project Starlight, OG, we give up. | ||
| You're right. | ||
| We're going to have to tell you all the secrets. | ||
| I mean, this is a Nazi-like group. | ||
| Well, I don't want to characterize these activities except to say that extraordinary things have been done. | ||
| Let me give you, there's a man that I'm working with who's a very senior and respected military person, has been involved in various special access projects. | ||
| And what I'm about to tell you has been corroborated by three or four other people. | ||
| And that is that the technology exists and has existed for quite some time. | ||
| And if this is off-the-shelf technology that can fit into a helicopter, into a panel truck, on an antenna in a city, where if they want to target you or anyone in your building with an experience, you'll have it. | ||
| You'll think it's real and you'll pass a lie detector test. | ||
| In fact, what I was told is that if they wanted you to have a personal conversation with your personal God, you would have it and you would believe it was real and you would pass a lie detector test. | ||
| It was real. | ||
| That it is that good and that seamless. | ||
| And all I'm saying is that we have to be very careful about these sort of subjective experiences people report. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Taking that, extrapolating it onto the genuine extraterrestrial phenomenon, and then making all kinds of sweeping xenophobics and fearsome conclusions and fantasies around it. | ||
| We have to be very, very careful that we do not become mouthpieces of disinformation and deception. | ||
| And I do. | ||
| To what end, Doctor, to what end would they be doing this? | ||
| Well, it serves a very good end. | ||
| Number one, many of these stories seem so preposterous on the front of, on just a prima facie basis, that most scientists won't even consider the subject matter because it has that kind of profound turning off effect. | ||
| Number two, and I think this is more important, is that this kind of virulent disinformation, it's very frightening and very xenophobic, has the intended effect of causing people to have one of two responses to this. | ||
| One is to be turned off by it and leave it alone. | ||
| Or two is to believe sort of a meta-story here that somehow we need this covert entity to fight a secret war with these extraterrestrials. | ||
| And to this end, I would say that what Eisenhower said was true as his last speech to the nation, when he essentially said, beware of the military-industrial complex. | ||
| And I'm not putting all military people at all in this, but there is an element that will do almost nothing to keep from maintaining control over something like this and also of this deceiving and misleading people. | ||
| I think we have to be very careful. | ||
| And people say, well, how could this be done? | ||
| I say, well, look, don't be so naive. | ||
| We put plutonium on the oatmeal of children during the development of our understanding of nuclear weapons in orphanages. | ||
| And this has been released. | ||
| The Clinton administration, the Department of Energy, and Hazel O'Leary released this information in 1993. | ||
| Pregnant women were fed radiation. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Radioactive clouds were released over populated areas to see what effect it would have. | ||
| Okay, there is a certain mindset that allows certain people to do these things. | ||
| It doesn't mean that it's not true just because it's horrible. | ||
| It just simply means that we have to be very, very careful, I think, in the civilian community, that we are conservative in terms of what assessments we make based on these sort of subjective experiences. | ||
| Because I've been able to dig into this deeply enough, and I really wish that more ufologists would do this kind of behind-the-scenes digging to see what the capabilities are covertly and what the deceptive capabilities are, because they're very, very extraordinary. | ||
| This story is more extraordinary than the fact, in many ways, that the extraterrestrial life forms are here. | ||
| You're right, it's a big story either way. | ||
| How do you separate the wheat from the chut? | ||
| Very hard work. | ||
| It's a weird balance of having to be, at one hand, open-minded, but on the other hand, very skeptical all the time. | ||
| You have to have your antenna up. | ||
| You have to have a high degree of inquiry and skepticism. | ||
| And I think more importantly, you've got to go to the source. | ||
| You've got to be able to penetrate people who know what they're talking about. | ||
| I mean, I tell people, look, I'm a country doctor in North Carolina. | ||
| You know, I live in a tutor house with four kids and a Wife and a golden retriever. | ||
| I'm not an expert in a lot of these areas, but what I have relied on are people that I've gotten to know over a period of years whom I trust who've been able to demonstrate to me that this is true and to tell me what to look for. | ||
| And what I would encourage people to do is to try to do their homework in this respect because we can't just take every anecdote or story that comes along and mark it as being true and then based on that, make these sort of sweeping generalizations about entire planetary systems of people who are visiting this planet. | ||
| And that's a very dangerous thing to do. | ||
| All right, Dr. Look, I agree with you. | ||
| I agree with you. | ||
| However, if these people are doing what you're suggesting they're doing, that in itself, forget the ETs, on human side is so dark and so foreboding and so sort of Nazi-like if they're out there abducting people to create diversions and so forth and so on, that you're not going to be able to knock their door open. | ||
| We're not trying to knock their door open. | ||
| You see, this is the big mistake everyone has made in terms of their strategy, and that is, you know, if you're in a sea of darkness, you don't change that by steering around the darkness. | ||
| You strike a match, you introduce another element, and that element is light. | ||
| Okay, that's an analogy in terms of what I'm saying that we're doing. | ||
| We are doing on two different levels, trying to change the dynamics of this. | ||
| One is that we are advising points of contact within this covert group that we have, that there should be changes made. | ||
| And let me say to you that at least a third of the people involved in these covert operations and the ruling sort of leadership of that group are in favor of the disclosure we're talking about. | ||
| At least a third, maybe close to a half. | ||
| And we have some personal contacts there. | ||
| And the point is, is that you can persuade. | ||
| I view all humans and all intelligent life forms as educable. | ||
| And so I would not give up on the fact that this can be changed. | ||
| But secondly, you don't rely on them to hand this to you on a silver platter. | ||
| You go out, you collect the best evidence, you find these extraordinary witnesses who have been involved in these projects, who are courageous and heroic and are willing to come forward. | ||
| And then you put together a strategy, and this is what we've been working for three years to do, where this information can then be presented to the public at the very highest venue possible, the most prestigious, the venue with the greatest gravity cost and credibility possible. | ||
| And I think you do that, and then you're not dependent on them capitulating, quote unquote, and you're also not looking for them to hand something to you on a silver platter. | ||
| If they help you, fine, if they come around to understanding that this is a matter which the world needs to begin to deal with, fine. | ||
| But you go ahead and you do it, and you don't get into this sort of strange super system codependency where you're waiting on them to do this for you. | ||
| Now, there's another element here, and that is that people forget about all the time. | ||
| That is the extraterrestrial. | ||
| There are extraterrestrials out there. | ||
| Tonight, somewhere, they're flying over a volcano, they're going over an area. | ||
| I say to people, look, rather than worrying about feeding all of this to some covert group, we have the power as humans and the freedom in the United States and many other countries to go out there to where these objects are being seen, try to establish preliminary communication with them, try to vector them in on a landing approach, and try to establish some degree of confirmed contact with them, quite independent from being given information from this covert entity that you referred to earlier. | ||
| And this is, of course, the main project that CSETI has been doing since 1990, and that is training people to go out there where these objects have been reported in a flap or a wave and try to establish some degree of contact and communication with them. | ||
| And I think that's something we can do. | ||
| The only reason it hasn't been tried before is that people somehow have talked themselves into the fact that it was impossible. | ||
| Well, we have, I think, proven that it isn't impossible. | ||
| All right, that's a good area to move into, and we will in a moment. | ||
| But before we leave it, you said you're married, golden retriever, perfect family American dream, North Carolina out in the mountains, sounds nice. | ||
| Who's come to see you, Doctor? | ||
| Beg your pardon? | ||
| Well, you alluded to the fact earlier that, you know, I said, well, somebody will come and see you. | ||
| And you said, well, they already have. | ||
| Well, yeah, that happened quite some time ago, and it has continued to happen. | ||
| But there are people who have been tied into this project and to these, not the CCETI project, but the project have opened up channels of communication. | ||
| Like what? | ||
| Well, like they've come and visited, or I've been somewhere, and they've taken me to a hotel room, and we sat till 3 in the morning, and it was 64 questions. | ||
| I mean, I'm talking to some very senior intelligence and other people, and we have discussed this. | ||
|
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I mean, did they threaten you? | |
| No. | ||
| No, there hasn't been a threat. | ||
| And one thing I said to them very early on is that when I was 17, I was very, very sick, and I had a near-death experience. | ||
| And I told them, I'm not afraid of death, and while I'm not a rich man, I'm wealthy enough that they can't buy me off. | ||
| And our teams have had very close encounters with the real McCoy, and they're not going to be able to fool us about this. | ||
| So, you know, at that point, one of the big, there was a very senior guy there who had a rank of general. | ||
| And then he turned to me and he said, well, we know exactly what you're about. | ||
| I think that's one of the things you have to do. | ||
| You have to establish to them that if you're going to do this and work on this issue seriously, incredibly, that you're not going to be intimidated. | ||
| And quite frankly, we're not intimidated. | ||
| And I think that this is something people make too much of. | ||
| I don't have any significant fears about this. | ||
| I think that we're doing the right thing. | ||
| We've got some very, very powerful and frankly, some very famous people in the world who support what we're doing. | ||
| They know every move we're making. | ||
| And that's our insurance policy. | ||
| Because one of the things I'll tell you is that every single thing that we have done has been documented. | ||
| There's a paper trail. | ||
| And there are some very, very capable people in the major media and also in some major leadership positions around the world who know what we're doing. | ||
| And they have been instructed that if anything happens to try to deter us from what we're doing, that they are to make all of this publicly available. | ||
| And so we're not concerned about that. | ||
| I think what I tell people that they should be concerned about is what I guess they would say in some quarters, the sins of omission. | ||
| We are the generation which must see that this issue is disclosed, is disclosed in a sane fashion without causing panic, and which then leads to a time when the world can deal with this issue in a constructive fashion and create a foundation for interplanetary relationship, whatever it may be. | ||
| I'm not going to prejudicially say what it might be. | ||
| Nobody knows. | ||
| Listen, Duggar, I like your optimism, but frankly, if I were part of this secret cabal, whatever it is, and you were getting close to a real revelation or forcing somebody's hand, I'd be likely to issue orders to have your door knocked down. | ||
| Well, that may be true, but what I'm saying is I don't think you understand the measures that we have in place to prevent that. | ||
| And I'm not going to go into our security arrangements over the phone on a live stream. | ||
| No, no, but I'll just say we have those things in place, and they've been effective. | ||
| We have not had, and this is what's interesting to anyone in your audience who's listening to this, who may be someone who's a witness who has been in some of these covert projects, not a single person with whom we are working who is one of these people who are witnessed, have been harassed, have been approached, have been told to shut up. | ||
| And I think there's a reason for that. | ||
| Two reasons. | ||
| One is that we're approaching the point where I think a majority of the people in this covert control group are in favor of this thing being disclosed. | ||
| But more importantly, we have this system set in motion where there is a significant degree of protection simply by the numbers of people involved and the people who are in the loop. | ||
| All right, if you had to guess, Doctor, do you think your phone is tapped? | ||
| Oh, I know it is, yeah. | ||
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Uh-huh. | |
| All right, hold on. | ||
| We will be back to you following the top of the hour break. | ||
| Pretty heavy stuff. | ||
| Dr. Stephen Greer is my guest. | ||
| He heads C SETI. |
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