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July 30, 1996 - Art Bell
02:01:58
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - 'Mad Man' Marcum - Time Travels
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You are listening to Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
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This is the CDC Radio Network.
From the high deserts and the great American Southwest, I bid you good morning and welcome to one of the strangest,
unusual talk shows in the world.
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This is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Art Bell.
Good morning.
It is good to be here.
And we are going to do an update to a story we did, I don't know, we'll ask.
I think it was about a year ago.
Maybe more.
All about a young man near Kansas City, Missouri.
Little town near Kansas City, I think.
Who built a... I don't know what it was exactly.
We'll have him tell you.
A time machine?
Maybe.
A dimensional porthole machine?
Maybe.
A human french fry machine?
Very possibly.
It's an interesting story.
His name is Mike Markham.
Actually, I've affectionately, mind you, nicknamed him Madman Markham.
And he is back to give us a report on what has been going on.
It's good just to hear his voice, actually.
Just let me get a couple of things straight.
This fax just came in, dear Art, on the news tonight at 11 p.m.
on KEPT TV Channel 12.
There was a report of a fireball over eastern Oregon, Portland included.
That is from Janet.
I wonder if anybody up there saw a fireball.
Now, this will answer a question.
Dear Art, I'm confused.
Friday you and Richard Hoagland agreed he'd be on Thursday night, Friday morning.
Then last night you said Hoagland would be on Wednesday night, Thursday morning.
Which is correct?
Please announce it again.
This evening.
Thanks.
Answer is, it'll be on tomorrow night.
All right?
Richard Hoagland, tomorrow night.
Because, of course, on Friday morning, I'm going to be leaving at three in the morning Pacific time, a little early, so I can get to the airport.
But I'm going to stay on the air right up until the very last moment.
So, we're going to have Richard here tomorrow night.
Pass the word.
Richard Hoagland, tomorrow night.
That's serious stuff.
And he's got some serious stuff for you, and we obviously didn't get into it properly because of the Centennial Park bombing.
We've got the latest for you on that and all the rest of things, but we're going to go and update a story first.
This is Mike Markham, otherwise known as Madman Markham.
That's affectionate, as you know, Mike.
Um, what is the newspaper there?
Your newspaper?
Uh, the Pink Jones Newspaper.
Okay, well... The Kansas City Star.
The Kansas City Star.
I got an article, I think it was the Kansas City Star, as a matter of fact, about you.
And we're just going to try and update the audience, uh, a little bit.
The article simply said that you had, that you had tried to build some kind of machine, and had taken, borrowed, appropriated, actually stolen, Some power company transformers to get the voltage to accomplish your task.
And that apparently was your undoing.
And we'll get to what the machine was, but the way I got it, you got arrested for stealing the transformers, and you went to jail, did your time.
As a matter of fact, the last time we had you on the program, your parole officer called.
And, uh, I'm a resting officer.
He was your resting officer.
That's right.
Sorry.
Resting officer.
It's been a while.
How long has it been?
A year?
Uh, about 16 months.
Sick?
Wow.
I think it was last April.
All right.
Uh, anyway, he called and begged you, um, in more ways than one to stop this madness.
To, uh, return to being a normal person.
Get a, well, I guess you had a job or maybe you didn't have a job then.
I'm losing track of it all.
At any rate, he didn't want you to continue.
Now, tell the people what it is that you made.
What were you trying to make?
What had you done?
First, you built a little scale model of what's called a Jacob's Ladder, right?
Yeah.
And a Jacob's Ladder is a very high-voltage, low-current thing that drives up the... Yeah, the climbing arc.
Climbing arc, yeah.
At some point, when you had built this scale model, you had taken, what was it, a screw?
Yep.
A metal screw?
Yep, a metal screw.
And you threw it through the arc, or through the field, and that sucker disappeared.
Psst!
Gone!
Yep.
Right?
And then, what, reappeared?
Yeah, about two feet away.
About two feet away, but it just flat disappeared.
I mean, it was gone somewhere.
Yeah.
Through this little machine you had built.
How big was the little one that you built?
Well, it was a 20,000 volt spark at about 100 milliamps.
The transformer itself was stuck in a five-gallon bucket of oil.
Oh, I see.
And the laser, that was a little bit bigger when I started.
The one really, like, really big.
I don't know.
Okay, well, anyway, the little one, how big was it physically?
How tall was it?
Uh, well, basically, it was like a straightened clothes hanger.
Uh-huh, so it was about as tall as a straightened clothes hanger.
Yeah.
Well, that's pretty good size, actually.
Um, okay, so, obviously, at this point, you figured, hmm, anomaly.
It's impossible this screw would disappear.
It might get scorched.
But it wouldn't disappear.
So your next idea was to build a McGungus model of the same thing, right?
Yeah, like a giant version.
This one's so big that it, what, you had to put it on the back porch?
Uh, yeah.
Because, uh, basically I had to hook it straight to the fuse box, the line coming in.
Well, we'll get to that in a moment.
But I mean, how big were the electrodes on this one?
Uh, I use these 3-8 inch thick metal rods.
They're about, uh, about 6 feet long.
6 feet long?
Yeah.
Now that's getting pretty big.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, then you decided, but, and obviously for something this big you need a lot more power.
Yeah.
So, your next move was to try and figure out where you could get, you needed high voltage, right?
Yep.
And, the way I recall it, You needed transformers to step up the regular voltage that comes to your house.
Yeah.
Did you go, by the way, did you go straight to the mains of your house?
Uh, well, I used two 400 amp breakers in the middle of that because a pop of 200 amp breakers were pretty easy.
Wow!
It popped a 400, so I had to go get another one.
It popped a 400 amp breaker?
Yep.
Oh.
My.
Alright, how much voltage Well, okay, first of all, where'd you go to get the Transformers?
Uh, at the time I was living in Stanbury, and King, uh, Stanbury's a small town, and King City's about roughly the same size, and it's about 12 miles away down the road.
Yeah.
Down, uh, Route 169.
I got up from, uh, the substation to that town.
So, the Transformers seemed to be gathering useless dust.
Yeah, they were just setting up that, uh, fence.
Uh-huh.
Just sitting there?
Yep.
Just sort of saying, Michael, here I am.
Here we are.
Actually, how many were there?
Uh, there were, uh, six.
Six.
And, um, after they begged you to liberate them, and you liberated them, how many were there left?
Uh, well, I got all right, that was outside the fence.
All six of them.
You got six of them?
Yeah.
That might have been slightly gluttonous.
Did you need six?
Um... Well, I was planning on doing each one of these.
Like, I was going to try to get as much voltage as I possibly could in each one of these to cut out about 12,470 volts.
So I was going to hook them together like batteries and get higher voltage.
In other words, you were going to hook the secondary of one to the primary of the next?
No, I wasn't going to spare something like that because they'd probably explode then, but... He has a good point.
Yeah.
They sure might.
No, what I did was parallel the primary coil and series the secondary.
Ah, okay.
So you liberated the transformers.
Now, those things must be awful... How heavy are they?
The 25 kilowatts are about 350 pounds.
So I take it you took a truck, right?
Yeah.
How the hell did you lift them up?
I had a couple guys that paid them to help me.
You paid them to help you?
Yeah.
Okay, so they were unwitting dupes?
Well, I don't know.
I haven't talked to them since then because I'm sure they're probably still mad at me.
So that when the police got to you, they didn't get in trouble?
Well, actually they did.
They did?
Yeah, but I don't know. I haven't talked to them since then because I'm sure they're probably still mad at me.
Did you pay them?
Yeah.
Yeah? Well...
But I'm sure they're still mad at me.
I think they got a lot less than I did.
I think they just got a couple years probation.
Well, a couple years probation.
What did they, uh... Let's see, how can I put this?
What did you tell them that you were doing?
I mean, did you tell them...
This is going to be a five-finger discount?
Or did you say we're... Well, actually what I told them was I went ahead and bought these things and changed it to a white car.
Oh, well then, see, they should have gotten off.
Well... Seems like, huh?
Yeah, it seems that way, but... Alright, so anyway... I think the way the cops are looking at it is saying, well, you guys are idiots for believing this guy, so...
Ignorance is no excuse for... Yeah.
Yeah.
Because, uh, basically, there's, like, a lot of building factors, because I've already tried buying those, I don't think they're, like, part of the purchase, they're still pretty mad at me, too, so... They are?
Uh, yeah, I'm surprised they even give me electricity, but... I would think after all this time, you know, they would be forgiving, but no.
Uh... Anyway, uh, so you got the Transformers, you hook them up to this gigantic...
Um, a gigantic Jacob's Ladder, six feet tall, and you did what?
Did you just go throw a switch, or...?
Yeah, well, I hooked everything up.
I just turned the breakers on.
You turned the breakers on.
Uh, what happened at that moment?
Um, well, I got, like, a pretty good-sized spark.
Let's see.
Unwittingly, I dimmed the southern half of Stanbury.
Well, that was very unfortunate.
The entire southern half of the town dimmed down.
Yeah.
Brown out.
How far down do you think that you took the voltage?
Did they ever tell you?
I'm just taking a guess.
Yes, based on the size of the car, we're going to drain probably down to anywhere from 80
to 90 volts.
We have 110.
Oh, that's very bad.
Yeah.
Very bad.
Um, so this naturally got the attention of the authorities, uh, with a big portion of the town going down.
And they, I guess, began to investigate.
How'd they get on to you, by the way?
How'd they catch you?
Um, basically, uh, a friend of mine was, uh, like, shooting birds with a BB gun, and he shot up one of my next door neighbors' sliding glass door windows.
And he had a Daniel Micron porch when he did that.
So, in other words, the cops came for that incident and they saw into your backyard and saw this thing on your porch?
Well, he shot from the front porch.
He didn't go in.
But basically what happened was, the guy that was shooting with the... See, after that happened, a few hours later, I'm assuming the next door neighbor called the cops because she discovered holes in her window.
And anyhow, he said, uh... Did she blame it on your apparatus?
Uh, no.
Basically, there were other witnesses saying this guy shot a BB gun off my front porch, so the cop came and asked for the BB gun.
And I went and got it for him.
And anyhow, basically, the guy that shot the BB gun, he got in trouble for it.
So, basically, he blames me for getting in... I'm assuming he got... He blamed me for getting in trouble for what he did.
Uh, he goes and tells the cops that, hey, he's got all these transformers and they're stolen.
So... Oh, it was a get-even deal, huh?
Uh, yeah.
So the cops... I didn't know that at the time, but I think I'm pretty sure that's what happened.
Now... Well, so what did the cops do?
Just come and knock on the door?
Uh, okay.
That was all that happened.
Okay.
Or did they stand outside with a bullhorn saying, you're surrounded, Markham!
Uh, okay.
Basically, the incident with the BB gun happened about...
Uh, if I remember right, about 2 o'clock, this was on a Sunday.
That happened around 2, then the cop comes in and asks for the BB gun at about 6, then at 11 o'clock that night, they come in and they just walk right in with a search warrant.
Walk right in, huh?
The door was open, they just opened and came right in?
Yep.
Oh man, surprise, surprise.
Yeah, I was woke, basically, it was a pretty cold time, so I was like sleeping right in front of the stove, and I wake up and I'm surrounded by 8 cops.
Eight cups.
A rude awakening.
So that was your undoing.
Then you went to court and you did serve your time, right?
Yeah.
Which was how long?
Sixty days.
Two months.
No fun in the pokey.
Was it miserable?
Actually, it wasn't too bad.
Well, basically what happened was, originally I was going to keep this whole thing a secret just for me and a couple of friends.
Of course.
And, well, after I was arrested, I was pretty sure I was going to go to prison.
So I was going to go ahead and, because at the time I thought I had some sort of time machine apparatus or whatever.
And I went and said, well, maybe I'll go ahead and tell these guys I'm making a time machine and they'll think I'm crazy and stick me in the loony bin instead.
So I went ahead and told them that.
Uh, they end, uh, basically the sheriff gets his word of it, he tells all the newspapers, and all the newspapers put it on AP Wire, and before you know it, everybody knows.
Yeah, and that's probably when we got in touch with you about then, huh?
Yeah.
And, uh, we don't know that it was not a time machine.
I mean, you don't know where that screw went, do you?
Uh, no.
I mean, that's the first theory popped in my head, and that's the only thing I can really think of.
Now, the larger model, how many times did you get a chance to experiment with the Big Mama before they got you?
Actually, I didn't even get to try it once, because with my original one, my laser basically caught fire.
Oh, that's right.
Now tell everybody, where does the laser come into this?
Um, originally I was making a real fancy Jacob's Ladder.
Like, most people have their strobe lights and lava lamps as well.
I have other, like, Tesla Coils, Jacob's Ladders, and stuff like that.
Right.
Um, basically I was making a, uh, I was trying to make, like, a Jacob's Ladder that had, like, a perfect arc.
Like, it reached the top every time.
Yeah.
Before it started arcing at the bottom again.
But, anyhow, it was, like, time to adjust it.
And if I just move it, like, a fraction of a millimeter, it either Sparkity is thick as a barb or whatnot.
So you mean moving the probes or the poles from each other?
Yeah, the electrodes.
Back and forth electrodes, yeah.
Yeah, so anyhow, I've got to use the heat from the laser to basically get the spark going.
Oh, to ignite the spark?
Yeah.
The heat from the laser providing... Yeah, basically it lowers the resistance of the air.
And provides a path?
Yeah.
Check.
So, you were in the middle of all this, and you were getting ready for the... How close were you to the great, grand, big experiment?
Well, I set up the... Unfortunately, I only got to hook up one transformer.
Uh-huh.
Because when you hook those things backwards, they're not very efficient.
No.
No, no, and of course you load down the local system incredibly.
Yeah, and if I'd hooked up all six, I'd probably overload the one on the pole.
Uh-huh, maybe blown it up.
Yeah.
So, I'm just, I'm curious, and I always have been curious, and I don't think I asked you this last time, but had you gotten the big one hooked up?
Uh, that's the Jacob's Lair section done.
No, no, no, no, no, wait, here my question.
Had you actually finished it, and got it working, you know, with the spark going all the way evenly to the top, what would you have done?
Oh, with the big model?
Uh, I dropped off the laser and see if it worked.
I was saying, hey, this is cool, I probably got it.
And basically, basically rebuilt my laser better so I wouldn't catch fire.
Uh, heck, I'd probably get it on tape and go from there.
I know, but what I mean is you threw a screw through the little model.
Yeah.
So what would you do with, what would you have done with the big model?
Uh, if I get, if I got the same results, uh, basically I'd just seen, uh, Basically, I was going to see what, which, which did it do.
If it would, like, send it, like, send it into the future farther, or if it would, like, uh, make the... Well, I mean, what would you have thrown through?
A screw, first?
Uh, yeah, just a bigger one.
And then maybe a cat?
And then... You get the idea.
We'll be back.
Madman Markham is here.
All right, now, back to Madman.
By the way, Madman, I'm curious.
Since we did that program, and I started calling you, very affectionately, Madman Markham, did that stick, do people call you that?
Uh, I don't know if anybody called me that.
Well, it's... I let my hair go.
That's good.
I mean, probably not your face.
uh...
by itself anyway you never did get to do the big one you would like to have
uh... and as i said you i'm sure what was on the right right
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
And then, uh, at what point would you have thrown a biological entity through it?
Let's say, let's just say that your experiment worked and the screw disappeared.
That's what I'd do.
I'd throw a screw through first, I think.
Yeah.
Um, then I would throw maybe something bigger like a hammer through.
Well, I don't know about a hammer.
But, you know, something bigger.
Yeah.
And then, at some point, You would have to put a biological entity through it.
Right?
Yeah.
What would have been your choice?
Uh, probably something like some sort of insect.
Like a catnip bug, like a cockroach, grasshopper, something like that.
Something like that.
Low on the level.
Yeah.
And then slowly edge your way up.
Yeah.
And then eventually, I suppose, if all of these creatures seem to survive, well, what if they didn't come back?
I don't know, I'd be probably thinking, well, maybe, because I think with my small version, I think what I did was I sent it like a roughly half a second in the future and then it caught up with it.
I don't know, that's what I'm thinking.
And that's the reason it reappeared on the table now.
If it don't ever reappear, I'm thinking, I'd be thinking, well, it either went like really far ahead, I'd be waiting forever to catch up with it, or Yeah, these would be the questions, all right.
And so, you would then have to ask yourself, you know, back then, everybody who was listening, me included, figured that you were going to walk through it.
Now, after we did the program with you, it's like your phone was disconnected after a while.
Nobody had heard from you.
People were calling me and saying, what happened to Madman?
And, we can only speculate, we thought you might have built your machine and walked through.
Obviously not.
No.
Yet.
Never got to that point.
Yet.
Now, you are, you are once again, you said there aren't new developments.
You, you, you, you have, um... Well, basically, it's, um, I've improved it since then.
You improved it?
Yeah.
Now, instead of, basically, instead of lasers, I use, uh, like a revolving magnetic field.
See, basically, I figured out kind of like what I did.
It's basically a vortex of electrical energy.
Now, you're going to use, wait a minute, a revolving magnetic field?
Yeah, basically it's a, basically it's a circle of electromagnets.
Basically 24 around, okay, it's seven circles stacked one on top of the other, and in each circle there's 24 electromagnets.
Wow!
Really?
Yeah.
This one's a little bit more complicated than the original.
Oh, no, this is really cool.
Now, did you wind these yourself?
Yeah.
You did?
Yeah.
And how much voltage do you intend to apply to the individual magnets?
Basically, I've been using 5,000 volts DC.
5,000 volts?
Yeah.
Basically, I need the strongest magnet.
Basically, I need the strongest magnetic field I can get.
I've got you.
I've got you.
If you've got high voltage, you won't need much current in.
Yeah, yeah.
And you say this is going to be revolving.
Now, by that, do you mean an actual mechanical revolving, or do you mean... Basically... It's getting tough to explain.
I wish I had a vector machine, I tell you.
Well, no, that's right.
Will it be an electrical... In other words, do you move the field by alternately...
Basically, it's kind of like, you know, like the distributor cap in a car?
Yeah.
It's similar to that.
Okay.
Basically, in each circle, all of them are energized, except for maybe one or two of them.
There's basically, John set it up where there's four different configurations.
All right, so now you really may be making a time machine.
Now, this is pretty cool.
Have you got that part of it built?
Uh, the electromagnets?
Yeah.
You do?
Yeah.
Okay.
Now, we've got to get to the power question, because probably your arresting officer is listening.
Okay?
Yeah, not far.
And he needs to know how you're going to get your power, because he'll leave you alone once he hears.
Well, lucky for me, I've got, like, basically a real cheap generator.
They've got more, they almost gave it to me.
They almost gave it to you?
Somebody gave it to you?
Well, they sold it to me for like 300 bucks, so... How big a generator?
Uh, 15 kilowatt.
Oh, that's a big generator.
Yeah.
That's a big one.
And you get what, 440 primary out of that?
Uh, yeah.
Uh-huh.
Now, transformers.
You need to get the voltage high, right, for the generator?
Uh, yeah, I've got that made, too.
You do?
Yeah.
Basically, heck, I've had, since I was last on your show, I've had some help.
A lot of it, actually.
How big a transformer do you have?
Oh, it's, well, they're quite large, but I've got several of them, because, basically, the total voltage I'm getting out of them is three million.
Oh, my.
Three million volts?
Yeah, that's basically, that's all the generator runs, entirely the, entirely that transformer.
Three million volts, and then you've got the rotating... Yeah, because I got the... I got six of them.
Each one changed 440 to 500,000, but the current's, like, really tiny.
That's... So, there has been, since the broadcast and the publicity, there have been people, obviously, I mean, for you to get this massive stuff built, there have been people helping you.
Yeah.
This is really interesting.
What...
When do you answer?
So, anyway, the arresting officer, what was his name?
Tom Hanson.
Yeah, he was a nice guy.
Does he still talk to you, by the way?
Last time I heard from him was when he called your show.
That was it, huh?
Yeah.
I'll bet he's listening.
I know he's on shift about this time.
Anyway, You're completely independent of the power company.
Well, I still use the power company to run the electromagnets, but... But you can do that legally?
Yeah, basically... Without dimming down the town?
Well, yeah, the electromagnets only use about 8 kilowatts, so it's about the same as electricity, maybe a tiny bit more, but... Right.
You know, you are getting very close now to the technology described in the Philadelphia experiment.
Do you realize that?
They used some sort of radio transmitter, didn't they?
Yes, but they used rotating magnetic fields and RF.
The only difference was they used RF fields as well.
But you're getting very close to what they were doing.
And how close are you now to the first big experiment?
Well, that's another thing, too.
My electrodes are a little bit different.
Basically, it's no longer a gigaplatter.
Okay.
Basically, one of the electrodes is just like a straight piece of rod down the middle, and
the other one is basically a screen mesh.
It's in a tube and it's around that, with basically the electromagnets around that.
And then you're going to apply 3 million volts to that?
Yep.
When do you think you might be getting around to this?
I mean, are we days, weeks, months away?
It's hard to tell now.
Basically, I haven't got all my...
Basically, I'm right in the middle of it right now.
I started last week.
Are people talking to you about this?
Are you getting any advice from people?
Basically, the people at the technical college and stuff, they think I'm a dead man.
So do a lot of us.
Yeah.
Well, on that 3 million volts, there's only 3 milliamps, but that voltage, it's more than enough to do the end.
Oh, like a French fried potato.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
I mean, you would just be a massive charcoal, you know, and pretty loose, dusty charcoal with that.
There would be very little left.
Now that's if, of course, if It has, it doesn't, it doesn't work as designed.
Let me ask you this.
Where did you get this radically different design for your new machine?
Basically, I talked to this, I talked to this physicist, I can't remember the town he's in, it was, geez, it was like a month after I was last on your show.
Right.
Basically, he said, well, there's this, I don't know if you know about this or not, but there's this theory, it's like, how'd that theory go?
Basically, what it boils down to, at the vortex of high electrical energy, basically, theoretically, you can form a hole in the fabric of the universe, and through that hole, theoretically, you can go through time.
So, that's what I'm thinking.
I understand.
In my original experiment where I used a laser, I think the way that happened was that laser was pretty hot, and I never really realized this until just about three months ago.
It was like the laser was really hot, and this was on my back porch, and this was in the dead of winter in December, and it was about 15 degrees outside.
So I was thinking maybe the heat from the laser in the cold air made some sort of tornado.
Right.
Um, and, and so the, how, how tall, how big is the machine physically gonna be?
The new one?
Oh, this one?
Yeah.
Uh, uh, gee.
Well, the, the electromagnets are about, uh, maybe, maybe like from the outer edge to the outer edge, they're about ten feet in diameter.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, they're big ones.
Yeah, they sure are.
Holy mackerel.
Now, are you, are you in an apartment or a house?
Uh, I have an apartment, but I don't have that stuff here.
Also, we've got a secret laboratory.
Uh, well, it's basically just a rented garage.
A rented garage?
Yeah.
Believe me, lots of Sony Corporation began in a rented garage.
Did you know that?
For $500, they began Sony in a rented garage.
Anyway, so you now have a dedicated Building for your experiment.
Yeah, well, uh...
Basically, I've got roommates here, and they're scared to death of my experiments, so... They didn't want to have it there in the apartment?
No, well... I can't say I blame them, actually, but... Well, they don't even want my papercraft generators or my Tesla coils or anything like that in here, either.
Really?
Yeah, they're... Now, that's beginning to get a little pushy.
Yeah.
I mean, your Tesla coils.
Well, the Tesla coils I've got are quite large.
Oh.
They're not just... These aren't the little handheld type.
These are...
Yeah, they draw about 5,000 watts or so.
Well, you don't do anything in a small way, do you?
No, I start small and get bigger as I go along.
Yeah, but I mean, this is a massive change, what you're talking about now.
These magnets, 10 feet and such.
How about the grid that you're putting up?
How tall is that going to be?
Let's see, it's about... I'd say it's about 6 feet.
Tall enough for a man to walk through.
Well, uh, if you, uh, basically this thing's like Lion Flags.
These things are like really heavy.
Yeah.
I mean, okay, I told you there's, uh, seven, uh, circles.
Each circle has 24 electromagnets.
Yes, sir.
Well, uh, basically those are just, well, I use J.B.
Weld to hold them together.
Cause, uh, I can't pick the thing up.
Each one, each individual electromagnet weighs about 200 pounds.
Good Lord!
Yeah, it's probably, basically because of the laminated core, because iron's pretty little, plate metal's pretty heavy when you get that much.
Oh, you've increased your plans exponentially!
Yeah.
Holy mackerel!
Well, this is just, basically I'm just making a, kind of making a small one to see if it works, because eventually I'm going to make one bigger than that.
Bigger than that?
Well, that's another thing, too.
Since your show, this guy in Springfield, Oregon, got a hold of me.
Yeah?
And he's working.
Evidently, there's four other people that's been doing experiments connected to mine.
One's, what's his name, John Terrell.
Have you heard of him?
I've heard the name somewhere, yes.
He's in London, England, and it just so happens he's made some sort of special generator that just basically runs on free energy.
I'm familiar with these people, yes.
Yeah, and that could definitely come in handy for me.
Ultimately, what I'd like to do is build a really giant one.
Yeah.
Basically, this is a small one.
I want to see what controls what.
Like, if the current controls how far I go into the future or the past or whatever.
Yeah.
And what I can do to make it go in reverse.
Go into the past?
Yeah.
And then figure out a way how the heck to control that.
Maybe it will depend on the phase of the electrical current or the way the magnets are rotating.
Who knows?
Yeah.
Any of that's possible.
Ultimately though, if the experiment goes as you hope it will, there's got to come a moment when a human being walks through, or into the field.
Doesn't there?
Uh, yeah.
So, this is where we've always been worried about you, and now with three million volts, this is real serious.
Well, I suppose actually dead is dead, and even your earlier Jacob's Ladder, if things had gone wrong, would have fried you alive.
Yeah.
So this would just be a more spectacular ending.
Uh, yeah.
I'd probably vaporize.
Vaporize, yeah.
That's what I'm saying here.
Vaporization.
Um, but on the other hand, you're really, and this is what I got out of the first interview, you're really serious about this, aren't you?
Oh, yeah.
And you really do believe that you can move things in time, huh?
Yeah.
Do you think, and this is a philosophical question for you, but I've always been fascinated with people working on time machines, and you're down to some serious work now, serious machine.
Do you think it would be a good thing for us to be able to move in time?
Have you given that any thought?
Well, if it does like it does in the movies, then that's got to be great.
I've been talking with some other theoretical physicists and stuff like that.
As far as, like, the quantum mechanics and, like, the physics of it?
Yes.
It'd be similar.
Well, I wouldn't get torn apart.
I'm sure you've heard of a black hole before.
Oh, of course.
It's like, basically, I wouldn't get torn apart since I'm using electromagnetism instead of gravity.
Right.
But the problem is, if I, like, go through it, basically, what I'm thinking is, I might, like, say I want to go ten years in the future.
Well, okay.
I'd like ten years in the future, but I'm in a different universe.
And, unfortunately, the theory, if I go back through, then I'll be in yet another different universe.
I'll never get back to the one I left.
That's a downside.
Downside, yeah.
Mike, when you get ready to get to the human part of the experiment, would you be willing to allow me to come and videotape?
I mean, something like this really ought to be documented.
Oh, sure.
And, uh, it could be used for one of several things.
I mean, to document a new step in physics, the first documented time travel, or, alternately, as a memorial for you.
You know?
Here was the life of madman, excuse me, Mike Markham, um, and here's how he ended.
But he believed in what he was doing.
And so, I'm really serious about this, in a way.
It would make either a great documentation of time travel, or it would make a very good memorial.
Now, surely your parents and your friends... Where are your parents?
I haven't talked to them in, gee, like ten years.
Really?
Yeah.
Okay, then friends, what do they say to you?
Are they concerned about you?
Well, some of them think I'm full of crap.
Some think I'm crazy.
The others are kind of worried.
Have you wondered about whether you're crazy yourself?
Now, I'm not saying you're crazy, and far from it, because actually, I really think you're working in a fascinating area, frankly.
And I might be tempted to do something like that myself.
But have you ever considered your own sanity?
And said to yourself, Mike, I might be nuts.
Well, uh... Is that a yes?
I never really considered it, really.
Never thought about it?
No.
So... Basically, he has it all.
Well, I take that back.
I kind of have, but I just figured, well, if I am him, if not, I'm not.
Case or-oss or-oss, right?
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
All right.
Mike, hold on, because the phones here are going nuts.
The people remember you, obviously.
They want to talk to you.
Stay right where you are and we'll be back to you after the news, alright?
Okay.
My guest is Madman Markham.
His plans have increased exponentially.
In fact, a lot of the work is done.
We'll be back.
Maybe.
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Thank you for watching.
I've been looking for this song.
Love can be strong.
We gotta get right back to where we all started.
Good people, WTAZ.
sent me back and said, we've got it right here in our hot little hands.
How would you like us to send you a copy?
Yes!
Yes!
Alright, I have as my guest, Madman Markham.
of America.
Mike Markham, actually.
Who began by building a simple Jacob's Ladder, controlled by a laser.
Which, if I recall correctly, he took out of a laser disk machine.
He threw a screw through it.
It disappeared.
Then he moved on up.
Borrowed... stole, actually, transformers from the power company.
Got arrested just short of...
His gigantic experiment.
Now, there have been many developments, and he has done the most incredible job.
He's got a garage now, a laboratory, where he has built what he believes to be a time machine.
And it's big.
I mean, the scale of this thing is massive, and we'll catch up on that in a second.
Then we'll launch into the phones and let you talk to him while he's still here, in this time frame.
Honor it.
Alright, back now to Madman Markham.
Madman, because there is an audience that joins us at midnight, just if you would, you've now got, it's out of your apartment, you're not using the power company power anymore, you are using this giant generator, you've got a 15 kilowatt generator, with a 440 output, you've got a whole series of gigantic transformers, how big again please?
Uh, they change 440 to 500,000 each.
500,000 each?
Yeah.
Uh, you've built yourself a grid with a rotating group of 24 magnets?
Electromagnets, is it?
Well, 24 in each circle, then I got 7 circles, so it's 168 all together.
Oh my gosh!
And each one of these is how big?
Uh, it's about 5,000 volts at about 1 amp.
And physically how big are they?
Uh, they're 8 circles, about 10 feet wide.
Man, this thing is gigantic!
This thing is going to be, do you remember that movie, uh, oh, what was the name of it, where in Egypt, where they dug up the big circle?
Do you remember that?
Uh, yeah, Stargate.
Stargate, thank you.
What you're building sounds like Stargate.
Well, it's like a, um, I told you about that guy out in Springfield, Oregon.
He's setting up like a, like a, a really big lab for me.
Yeah.
And, well, I was like, I already had, I already drew up plans for that, like, bigger scale, and for that I plan to use, well, it's going to be a little bit more complicated yet, instead of just like a, it's going to be, basically it's going to use 49 volts two phase at very low frequency.
But before we get to that, I mean, you're going to carry through this experiment before you get to that one, right?
Yeah, basically, well, the reason I'm doing this is to like, Basically, improve it before I make the big one.
It'd be a whole lot cheaper to, like, build a little one, then improve it, rather than build a big one, then tear it back down again.
Alright, now listen to this fax that I just got.
It's from a pastor.
A man of the cloth.
Art, tell Madman if he wants a human volunteer to go through first.
I will do it.
I have, since I was a small child, been fascinated with time travel.
As a matter of fact, I've been doing my own research and testing on time travel.
I've been perusing another route.
Remember the movie, Somewhere in Time?
He's been doing that thing.
But he is actually... Pastor Bradley is volunteering to go through.
Now this brings up a big moral issue.
Because if Pastor Bradley should go the way a fly goes, and you know those little fly zappers?
If Pastor Bradley were to go like that, They could potentially, potentially, they could charge you with, I don't think murder, but maybe manslaughter.
Yeah.
So you would be disinclined, I take it, or do you want a human volunteer?
Well, that's really nice of him, but if I do a human volunteer because of that, I'll probably be the one.
You're going to be the one?
Yeah.
All right.
Well, certainly some scientists have injected themselves with their own serums, you know, to prove.
Here's another practical suggestion for you, just before we go to the phones.
Art, please ask Madman what he thinks about the idea of instead of first even putting animals into the vortex, Here's an idea for you.
Basically strap a camcorder to the end of a pole and put it into the vortex.
Maybe we could safely see what's on the other side when the experiment gets to that stage, that is.
Now that's not a half bad idea, or is it?
Well, wait a minute now.
A camcorder would be a Wouldn't survive the electromagnetic field, would it?
Well, the way it's set up, basically in the center of it... Yeah?
Okay, you got your screen mesh.
Yeah.
I'm thinking of using... I'm just going to use whatever works better, I don't know yet.
But I'm either going to use just like a straight rod, or use like a metal pipe.
No, if the metal pipe works better, then basically a metal pipe acts like, to some degree, like a magnetic shield.
Uh-huh, so that might be an okay idea.
Yeah, but I don't know if I'll get the same results as that or with a rod.
All right, and this.
Dear Art, when Madman Markham mentioned using seven rings of 24 electromagnets, I was reminded of Bob Lazar's description of the drive units On the UFOs, he allegedly studied, although I believe he said they were using 48 sectors per ring, instead of 24.
That's Ron in Birmingham, Alabama.
Have you heard about Bob Lazar's... Do you know the guy?
I heard his name from somewhere.
Well, he worked allegedly at an area called S4, here near where I live, and actually back-engineered some supposedly extraterrestrial vehicles.
Yeah.
And he was claiming that's what they used.
So you're not far away from what he... This is really interesting, actually.
Yeah.
Well, it's like I was kind of like debating on how many I knew it was going to be a multiple of 12, but I didn't know whether to use 24.
Originally, I was going to do 96, but then the ring would be a heck of a 5,000 watts each thing that has to be a pretty good size.
The heck, the ring would be, it used to be 150 feet wide, and that would be too dang... Yeah, I can't believe the progress you've made.
And then to the main unit, you're going to be applying three...
Million volts.
Yeah.
I mean, this is much, much, much bigger than even that.
Yeah, these things, I mean, they're hard as heck to insulate as far as the secondary windings go.
I'll bet.
I'll bet.
What size wire do you have to use?
Oh, it's, well, since our car's only 23 milliamp, it's really tiny.
It's like a, uh, what gauge is it?
I think I call it spools.
It's spools.
It's spools of it.
Well, as I said, look, I think No matter what happens, it is going to be incredibly dramatic.
Yeah, if I remember right, I think it's like 30 gauge.
30 gauge, alright.
Well, it's going to be a very, very dramatic event, and I'm really serious.
I will fly out when you're ready, and I will videotape it, and we will either use it to document actual time travel, or use it as a memorial, which I guarantee will be run on many outlets and many people across the country, We'll see your last millisecond.
You know what would be awful though?
If you went through and it looked like you were zapped and there was nothing left of you.
We really wouldn't know whether you had gone to another... Yeah, that's the down part of it.
If I aim it successful, and it's one of those deals where I end up in another universe, if this thing does like a black hole does, which, essentially, it's the same thing.
It's basically a hole in the space-time continuum.
If it's a successful jump, I'll be the only one that knows it.
Bummer.
Yeah.
Unless, I suppose, You know, I hate to use this analogy, but when a fly hits one of those zappers, it sort of vaporizes.
Yeah.
But there's still a little dust.
Right?
Yeah.
So, there'd be some dust of Markham left.
Maybe some sort of dust.
I mean, it wouldn't totally, or would it, you know more about this than I do, would it If it didn't work out... Well, if the current's only 3 milliamps, it wouldn't vaporize me.
I'd probably be electrocuted and have burn marks all over me, but since the current's only 3 milliamps, it probably wouldn't do a whole lot.
Well, it's going to be dramatic.
That's for damn sure.
I really would.
I'm serious about this.
I'll come videotaping.
If you'll allow me to.
Oh, yeah.
Alright.
If you had to guess, what period of time are we talking about here?
Uh, well, that's, that's, that just is.
That's just it.
Just a guess.
Just a guess.
Assuming things continue to work out on your timeline as you want them to, when, just a
guess.
Well, assuming I don't run into any problems, like technical problems, or probably hits,
maybe I still need to change the electromagnets.
I'm only about halfway done.
That was probably a month.
A month?
Yeah.
I'm worked.
I got a full-time job, so basically I only get to work on our own evenings and weekends.
Well, that's good, because I'm going to Europe here for a couple weeks, and I'm going to have to arrange to fly out there, which I'm going to do, so you need to keep me informed.
I will.
All right, now let's go to the phones and see what people have to say to you.
This is quite remarkable.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Mike Markham.
Hello.
Hi.
Hi.
Where are you, sir?
I'm, uh, this is Tony.
I'm in, uh, his squad in West Nacoma.
Oh, okay.
Uh, Seattle.
Yes, sir.
Uh, what was the name of the guy in Springfield, Oregon who's doing it, too?
Um, well, he's not really doing it, too.
Basically, he's just, like, he's more or less a coordinator between me, a couple other guys, and, uh... Well, can you spell his last name?
It's, uh, uh, Daniel Webb.
Daniel Webb.
Yeah, W-E-B-B.
And did you videotape the Jacob's Ladder and the screw disappearing?
Well, I didn't expect this to happen.
I didn't have one handy.
No, see, this was his very first scale model experiment.
Did the screw disappear and not come back?
It reappeared roughly half a second later.
Half a second later.
And when it disappeared, was it inside a ball of Uh, plasma or what?
I mean... Uh, okay, you know what sparkly... You know what a heat signature looks like, right?
Yeah.
Like, the most source of heat, you'd get wavy lines.
Uh-huh.
Well, this was like, it was like, heck, I'm surprised I even noticed it.
Um, basically, I thought I was seeing things.
Um, basically, this is kind of like amoeba shapes.
They're just going straight up and down.
Uh-huh.
The wavy lines, they were, well, they weren't really wavy lines, unless you, like, pay attention to the background.
Uh-huh.
But, it was kind of like an amoeba shape.
Kind of like a mirage-type shape.
Yeah.
Or heat waves, you're saying.
Yeah, that's going straight up and down.
It was going circular.
Okay.
So, none of this stuff was videotaped?
Unfortunately.
Because I... There's a caller.
Hold on a second.
Because I can remember the original story when he was on the air.
Uh-huh.
He got the screw through, but what was controlling this was this little laser that he had taken out of a... literally out of a...
A CD player.
A CD player, thank you.
And he overloaded the laser.
And that's... Is that correct, Mike?
Uh, yeah.
See, I got to throw this thing through two or three times because I thought I was really flippin' out.
Right.
And I said, cool, I discovered something here.
I gotta get this on tape.
Right.
Probably five seconds after I said that, I was getting ready to turn this stuff off and go borrow a camcorder.
The laser caught fire.
And that's when he started on the bigger one.
The bigger model, which had... Yeah, because the laser was the most complicated part, and I figured, well, I'm going to rebuild the laser, I might as well do a big version.
Right, so to get to the point, then he built the big one-caller, and of course the long arm of the law stepped in to the middle of that experiment.
Well, I hope you get something of the original one on your website.
I'd really appreciate it.
And my question really is, why are you replacing the laser with a rotating magnetic field?
Alright, good question.
Go ahead, Mike.
Well, if I ever jump through it with no laser there, all I have to do is worry about the electric spark fans.
And another thing, a magnetic field, I've found out, is a lot more efficient.
And this was on advice from a physicist, right?
I think that he's on the right track.
I think you were originally, too, but you have made a quantum leap, certainly, going to this rotating magnetic field.
I think you're really on to something.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mike Markham.
Hello, Art.
This is Rick in Ocean Springs, Mississippi.
Well, hello, Rick.
Hey, Madman, I want to tell you what I think you should do I think that you should get a radio frequency.
I think, is the frequency you're using, the rotating frequency, 160 megahertz?
Well, no, he's not using RF.
Oh, he's not using RF.
No, he's using, he's rotating, alternating magnetic fields.
Oh, okay.
As far as the spark goes, I can adjust the frequency of that.
I'm using, like, very low frequencies.
Well, I just remembered something about the Philadelphia experience, 160 RF.
That's correct.
Anyway, what I think that you could do to make your experiment a little easier on you is if you concentrate on sending a message back from the future to yourself at the present time.
That way you would know, I mean like an RF, like what you could do is write down a frequency and a time and put it in a safe place.
No, even better yet, why not just write a note and tell me or someone else where that note is going to be?
Well, it would be for him.
That way he could talk to himself.
And he could tell himself... Well, I know, but it's not Michael that we've got to convince.
Well, I know, but what I'm saying is Michael could tell himself how to actually make his machine.
That way it would be kind of a lazy way to do it.
Well, we'll have his machine.
We don't have to worry about that part.
If we want to prove that he went into the future, then he writes a note And he leaves it in pre-designated place.
And, um, depending, of course now, who knows how far in the future he gets tossed.
Yeah.
But, uh, if it's not too far, then that note is going to appear.
Right.
Well, that's true.
Or he could make a...
Uh, radio, because radio waves are never lost.
I mean, your voice is out there forever, Art.
Yeah, I know, but we can't recapture it, sir.
Once transmitted, it keeps on truckin'.
It's not like we can go catch it.
Yeah, but if you could figure out a way to recapture it, if you could, if you could transmit on tachyon beams, or... Oh, well, now, see, now we're gettin' way out there.
Yeah, I guess.
Alright, I like the note idea.
Uh, that seems, uh, simple to me.
Uh, then there's one other little thing to worry about, Mr. Markham.
And that is, how do you know you're going to go to the future?
How do you know you're not going to go to the past?
Well, that's another, that gets pretty complicated there, but this is a separate business here, is that normally it goes forward.
Now, how it controls how you do it in reverse is, well, there's a couple ways that I've been told.
One's this little special oscillator you have with you, and another, All right, here's the other thing.
I got it wrote down on a piece of paper somewhere, but basically it has nothing to do with basically
changing like, like invert the phase, like invert your phases or something like that.
Alright, here's the other thing.
As in that movie, for you to return, presumably if you get tossed into the future, if the
machine is continuing to run, then that hole remains available for you to jump back through.
Would that be true or false?
Uh, well, like I said, if it's... Every physicist I've talked to, all they've got in common is, basically, it's similar to a black hole except no gravity is going to tear me apart.
Basically, and if that's the case, then I can just, it's like a doorway, I can just walk back in.
Walk back in, yeah.
Alright.
If it's like almost...
If it's identical to Black Hole, except for the gravity part, basically I walked back in on one universe.
Now, logically, like a regular doorway, if you walk back through, you came back where you left.
So my comparison to Stargate, madman, wasn't that far off, was it?
Yeah.
Actually, it reminds a lot of people of that movie.
Particularly the way you're building it.
You know, it sounds like Stargate.
Madman, hold on, we'll be right back to you.
This is Madman, not too far outside Kansas City for the moment in this time frame.
Yes, sir.
Folks, we'll get it on videotape.
At any rate, we're going to take a break here.
If you want to ask Madman a question, come now.
you're listening to the cbc All right.
Back now to Madman Morton.
Madman, last time you were on the air, you gave out your phone number.
Yeah.
And what happened after that?
Basically, I got stuck getting one call after another for the next three days.
Uh-huh.
So people are going to, of course, ask if they can contact you again this time.
And last time I warned you.
Yeah, well, last time I was debating whether I should have used my address or my phone number.
I should have went with the address.
Okay, so you... I didn't really mind it, but it was like I'd get cranky after three days of sleep.
Well, you've got to admit, I warned you.
Yeah.
I did warn you.
Yeah.
Alright, so now you've got an address.
Why don't you go ahead and give your address now so people can write it down and communicate with you.
Okay, it's 209... I'm sorry?
Uh, 209 and a half.
209 and one half.
South 13th Street.
South 13th Street.
Uh, St.
Joseph's, Missouri.
St.
Joseph's, Missouri.
And the zip code?
Uh, 64501.
64501.
Alright, good.
209 and a half, South 13th Street, St.
Joseph, Missouri, 64501, right?
Yeah.
And if you've got Mad Men on top of that, I don't know if the postman will know who I am or not, but... He probably will.
Yeah.
Alright, um... Here's a fax for you.
Oh!
Um... Well, I guess I'll hold that.
Alright, here's a fax.
Dear Art, if this screw went several seconds into the future, Wouldn't it always be those same several seconds into the future?
I don't see how this screw can exist in the present and the future.
If this screw did happen to go into the future, it suggests the screw had to travel backwards in time to get to the present from the future.
Could you please have Mr. Markham elaborate?
Ah, well, what I think happened is...
Actually, it wasn't several seconds.
I've been nice.
I've been nice, but actually, it was about just enough for me to measure.
It was about roughly half a second.
Right.
And what I think happened is when it went through that thing.
Yeah.
After it went through that, well, portal vortex, whatever you want to call it.
Whatever it is, yeah.
Basically, it just went straight from, basically, it skipped over half a second.
Yeah, okay.
All right, now my question.
Have you considered this possibility, Madman?
I mean, there are three million volts.
We're talking serious, serious stuff here.
Now, there might be those who would consider you are, in effect, committing suicide.
Okay?
Yeah.
And, um, that instead of the police coming, because you have not, obviously, you're not breaking the law now.
Yeah.
But, but, you may be, uh, I mean, have you ever thought they might come into that house?
Well, I was going to approach it more gently, but yes.
Well, let's see.
Basically, I'm on probation now.
Basically, they made a condition in my probation to go see a shrink, like roughly once a month now.
So you've been going to a shrink?
Yeah.
And you've told the shrink all about this, right?
Yeah, well, she already knew about it anyway.
Oh, she?
Yeah, she saw me on TV.
Okay, now, oh, this is very interesting.
Now, I didn't know that you've been doing this.
So, now, what does she say after listening to what you've said?
Basically, I told her, well, basically, in her opinion, I'm delusional, among other things, and she put me on Risperdal.
But, evidently, it's not a delusion, because it has no effect on me.
And I've been taking it for, oh, gee, about six months now.
Uh-huh.
So, she thinks you're delusional?
Uh, yeah.
Well, what is her attitude about your going... I mean, she knows you're getting closer and closer to the big one here.
Yeah.
And what's she saying to you about this?
Uh, well, basically... Basically, she has me... It's the same thing.
I go in, she asks, well, anything change, Mike?
And I always tell her, uh, not really.
So... So she probably thinks, time to increase the dosage.
Uh, yeah.
Well, she hasn't really increased it in the past couple months, so... Maybe she figures that's as much as chemicals can do.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Yes, this is Dr. Joe, and I have done, oh, a lot of science fair stuff in my youth, and I continue a hobby of physics.
I'm an amateur, and I'm rather impressed with Madman's Recent research.
I had a couple of suggestions.
Let me ask you this, sir.
Based on what you know, you heard him describe what he's building, right?
Yep.
Should he walk through this?
What would happen?
Not right away.
The first thing that he needs to do is he needs to get a spring-loaded plexiglass, or, excuse me, spring-loaded timer and put it in a plexiglass container and get some sort of ramp that he can roll it on through the A tunnel that he's created and he needs to videotape it and have another timer in the foreground and so that he can see what the difference is.
Kind of like what they did in Back to the Future.
Yes, something like that.
But then assuming that works out and he actually physically walks through a biological entity what do you think will happen?
I have no idea.
Yeah, me either.
Let me give a few more suggestions.
One of them is we need to put one of Art's parts through there and see what happens when it's energized like Stan Dale recommended.
Remember he said if you just oscillate it, it'll... Please, my parts are already scattered all over the place.
One at a time here, please.
They're at universities.
That's a whole other story.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Hello.
Yes, Art Vale?
Yes, sir.
Where are you?
I'm Mark from Murfreesboro, Tennessee.
Hi, Mark.
Hey.
I wanted to ask Man Man, I've been reading a book on the current state of the art in quantum physics and what most quantum physicists tend to think now is that in order to explore time or inter-dimensional travel, you have to generate energies that We're only present at the initial moment of the Big Bang, when the universe existed in ten dimensions.
As the Big Bang cooled, six of the dimensions curled in upon themselves and we were left with four that we know, three of space.
So you're trying to suggest he cannot generate enough energy?
Well, what most physicists say now, in order to explore hyperspace or time, you need to generate an amount of energy called the Planck energy, or 10 to the 19 billion electron volts, which is about one quadrillion times larger than energy currently available All right.
Well, I appreciate that suggestion, but there are, in fact, indications.
If you look at the Philadelphia experiment, if you look at Lazar's work, there are indications that it can be done with much lower voltage if other factors are involved, like this large rotating magnetic field that Madman is talking about.
Right, Madman?
Yes.
The wire I got to use, like in megavolts, basically, the guy I talked to says it worked best, unfortunately I can't generate that much right now, but it worked best to have 40 million volts two-phase.
Now, I'm having a heck of a time insulating three volts.
I don't know, three million volts.
I understand.
Eventually I hope to get to that point, but I can't do that right now.
There are those, Madman, who would say this is crazy and suicidal, and you're going to be a crispy critter, and is there any way to talk you out of this?
I guess if you're a psychiatrist, Gant, then nothing we could say would talk you out of it.
Basically, my ex-girlfriend tried to pop me out of it.
You mean, did she leave you because she couldn't?
Uh, yeah.
That's awesome, I understand.
Alright, first time caller line, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Yes, hi, thank you.
I have a question for both of you.
Alright, where are you?
Where are you dear?
I'm calling from Santa Monica, California.
Santa Monica, alright.
Okay, my question for you Art is I need to find a station where I can listen to you with clarity.
Well, what about KABC in Los Angeles?
What, where's that, 790?
Yeah.
Okay, so you moved from Cogo?
No.
Well, yes, we're on 760, which is KFMB in San Diego, and you can probably receive that, or go to KBC 790.
790, okay, I don't know why I couldn't find you there.
Alright, my question, my comment for Madman is, What kind of protective gear are you going to be wearing in your vehicle?
Are you going to put yourself in?
I don't believe you can just walk through.
Well, it depends.
Well, basically it really depends on what kind of electrode.
It's an electrode, isn't it?
If it's going to be just a rod or if it's going to be a tube.
If it's going to be a rod, hmm.
I would think nothing metal would be a good idea.
No, I'm going to be wearing something like a, more or less, a giant rubber glove.
Yes.
I mean, I don't necessarily get killed, but I'll get the nasty shock of my life.
All right.
Well, good luck to you.
All right.
There you go.
Thank you very much for the call.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Hi.
Yes.
What I'm interested in is, what is your scientific background that eventually got you headed this way?
It was just playing around or what?
Okay, the answer to the question is, just playing around.
You're not a physicist, are you?
No, I just turned 23 last week.
He's just a guy, sir.
Okay, Art, if you would, at the end of the hour, play Louis Armstrong.
Yeah, it might fit.
Um, West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hi, Art.
This is Red from the mighty K-O-M-O.
Come on, Saddle.
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
I would like to ask the madman three questions.
One of them, was it an aluminum screw that he threw through the, uh... Uh-huh.
Um, actually, uh, heck, um, no.
It was, heck, it stuck to a magnet, so it was probably steel.
It was not a sheet metal screw of any kind, then, huh?
Okay, the second question is, is you said that time-wise, could you reverse, as far as the DC current, could you reverse the magnetic field and somehow, if this worked, go back in time?
Would that be the... That's a possibility.
It's one we'll be working on, find out what controls what.
Like putting two magnets together?
Yeah.
Opposite.
Okay.
I'd like to try that.
See what happens.
And the third question is that, uh, and Art might go along with this, could you charge the aluminum and bismuth?
Quit messing with my parts!
My parts are at a university, and they're going to have a million volts applied to them, sir, so... Well, he's got five million.
No, three million.
Three million, okay.
Okay, well thank you, Art.
Alright, thank you very much.
See you, bye-bye.
Alright, bye.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Hello.
Hello.
Yes, this is Lee from Kansas City.
Yes.
And I was really interested, I'm not a physicist or anything, but I was interested in what you're talking about.
And I was wondering, when he goes through, if the minister would go through first, it'd be murder.
So why doesn't he take someone with him, that way when he goes through, they can decide together what's going on over there and then one
could come back.
Well there's a pretty good idea. Is there anybody uh madman who wants to go through with you?
I mean you've got friends who are helping you build this.
Oh actually I know several people but uh I'm assuming they don't have much
faith in me because uh in other words they're willing to help you make coils but
they're not willing to... Well there's another one. What I'm saying is
there's a couple that's willing to like go ahead and be guinea pigs
but they don't got much faith in me because uh they're kind of
well in my opinion they're suicidal but... In your opinion they're suicidal?
Uh, yeah.
You mean, actually, they're thinking the machine isn't going to work, and they're suicidal?
I'm assuming they want to go out in a really spectacular way.
Oh, this would do it.
This would do it.
I'd like to ask him, what is his background?
He's only 23 years old.
Uh, aside from prison, you mean?
No, no, no, no.
I mean your education.
All right.
Uh, Madman, uh, did you get through high school?
Uh, yeah.
Uh, I was doing about, uh, I was majoring in electrical engineering for two years in college before I had to drop out.
Oh, okay.
Uh, besides that, most everything I know I learned by experiment.
All right.
So you're, you're an entrepreneur, a self-learned mad scientist?
More or less.
Okay.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Hello, Art.
Hi.
My name is Eric in, uh, Kentucky.
Yes, hi, Eric.
Hi.
Uh, I was just wanting to give a suggestion for, uh, Mr. Madman.
Uh, maybe you could just tie a string onto something that you throw through?
So you could pull it back?
Yeah, just pull it right back.
You know, that's easy.
Or maybe shot a flashlight through it.
Yeah, I'm fine with both.
It's like you're pulling back out, you know?
Yeah, I was just thinking.
I was just thinking of that.
Well, you know, these things... You could be putting a light through two different mediums if it's actually going somewhere else.
Yeah, these things, obviously, you would try before you walk through yourself.
Oh, yeah.
So, what we've got to do is have you perform the initial experiments, Madman, and then, of course, call me before you do the big one.
I mean, when I say big one, I mean...
Can I jump in?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Definitely call me before that.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Hello?
Going once.
Going twice.
Gone with the wind.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Hello?
Hello.
Yes.
Turn your radio off, sir.
Turn my radio off.
No problem.
That's very important, yes.
Call the wildcard lines, area 702-727-1295.
I have a question for Matt.
Okay, we're not allowed to put your last name on the air, sir.
Okay, Tim.
So let us just call you Tim, and where are you calling from?
Oak Grove, Missouri.
Oak Grove, Missouri.
Alright, go ahead, Tim.
Okay, I have a couple questions for Matt Maymarkham.
Yep.
First off, would he think about doing a Putting a laser with the magnetic field?
Well, I think that the magnets are... Basically, the magnet does the same thing as the laser, only a lot more efficiently.
Yeah.
What originally did it was the combination with laser with 15 degree error is what caused, what originally caused that.
Okay.
The magnetic field basically does the same thing as that, but a lot more efficiently.
Yeah, thinking of using the Laser to help dampen the field possibly more, in conjunction with the magnet.
And because of wave-particle duality, I took a physics class in college, wave-particle duality in light, if you possibly put one at the top and the bottom going together, Well, as you have heard the design, which is significant.
I mean, this is a Stargate-sized thing he's building.
Yes.
What do you think is going to happen to him when he walks through?
What will happen?
Yeah.
What do you think will happen based on the design you've heard him describe?
Well, that's hard to say.
The Philadelphia Experiment, it can happen like that.
Or, well, it just depends.
Now, it's worth reminding man-to-man at this point that, um... Yeah, he could possibly get killed over it, yeah.
Well, even if he gets through, let's say he gets through, remember the results of the Philadelphia Experiment where sailors were, like, half way, you know, buried in the deck.
It was horrible, you remember that?
Yes, and I also heard that people who did survive were crazy over it.
Just went totally crazy.
Well, in this case, though, they might not be able to tell any difference.
Yeah.
So Madman may have an advantage.
Well, actually, basically, I don't know.
I'm thinking what could have been part of that is there might have been some, like, low frequencies in there.
And, well, your brainwaves are anywhere from 0.1 to 10 hertz.
It just so happens that's the same frequencies I'm playing with, so basically I made this sheet metal, like sheet tin helmet over my head.
You're actually, you're actually going to be using frequencies akin to the ones that the harp transmitter is using.
Yeah, basically it's anywhere from .1 to 30 hertz.
Oh, man.
Heck, I'd like to get lower, but it's lower frequencies.
It's like, well, you need like a really giant capacitor, and I can't find one that big.
Oh, well, we might be able to find one.
Madman, you want to do one more hour?
Okay.
All right.
Madman Markham is my guest and he will be back.
At least this time, I think.
We'll certainly be back.
We'll certainly be back.
See there?
I take requests.
I see skies of blue and clouds of white, the bright blessed day, the dark sacred night.
Now Michael, you listen to this.
I think to myself, what a wonderful world.
You're listening to the CBC Radio Networks.
Stay right there.
The colors of the rainbow So pretty in the sky
Are also on the face of the earth Art Bell
Art Bell You're listening to Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
Listeners west of the Rockies can call Art toll-free by dialing 1-800-618-8255.
If you're east of the Rockies, the toll-free number is 800-825-5033.
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This is the CBC Radio Network.
It is, and we are hearing the story, the new story.
And the big plans of Madman Markham.
I call him that.
His real name is Mike Markham.
He's in Missouri.
And he is building, to me, what sounds like Stargate.
It really does sound like Stargate.
We'll get him to describe it again here in a few moments.
I went out and talked to my wife during the break.
I said, Honey, you know, this really sounds like Stargate.
She said that to me it sounds like a barbecue.
And she could be right, I suppose.
Anyway, back to Madman and your questions in a moment.
It's to understand the scale of what Madman Markham is building.
He began with a small-scale model, which he, of this Jacob's Ladder, controlled by a laser.
He threw a steel screw through.
It disappeared for about a full half-second, then reappeared.
Then he built a big one.
He had to appropriate some power company transformers to do it, unfortunately.
And they caught him and put him in jail.
He did his time.
We did a show with him some time ago.
But now, now he's acquired a gigantic generator, and he has built these gigantic transformers, many of them, and electromagnets, and he is building, to me, what seems to be roughly Stargate, actually.
And at some point, of course, he is going to walk through it.
Now, first of all, Madman, are you there?
Yeah.
Okay.
I think that we've got a caller here who wants to know the scale of what you're building, and it'll be well that we explain it.
We have a new audience at this hour.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Are you there?
Yes.
I'm calling from Platte City, folks, and my name's Pat.
I was wondering, how large is this thing?
Are you gonna, like, build it in your basement and do it like that?
Okay, we'll tell you the story.
Here's what's happened.
He did it, you see, on his back porch, originally, and that's when the cops got him.
Uh, that's when he had to do his time.
Now, he has acquired, it is a what, a garage?
Uh, yes.
It's a garage.
Alright, if you would give the audience a sense of the scale of what you have now built.
Um, well, it's the, the, the electromagnets are circular, that's the, And there are how many of them?
Well, there's seven circles.
Each circle has 24 in it.
And each electromagnet is how big?
Including the core and the coil, about 200 pounds.
Good God.
All right.
And so there are seven circles of these... Well, it's gonna be.
I haven't got it pinched yet.
Yeah, right.
But seven circles of 24 magnets each.
And they will be rotating.
And then there will be...
Not exactly a Jacob's Ladder, but either a pole, you said?
Well, it's like a screen mesh.
A screen mesh.
Actually, I use that stuff, you know, it's like a...
And a screen door?
Yeah.
It's that fine, because it's only 3 milliamps, so it won't melt down or nothing.
3 milliamps, but the voltage you are developing is 3 million volts, right?
Yes.
And you are doing this with transformers that you have now hand-wound.
Actually, I used a motor.
Well, I don't blame you.
And they are how big and weigh how much?
Oh, each one?
I have no idea.
Well, let's see.
They're about the size of a small substation transformer.
That's big.
Yeah, this probably weighs maybe, probably a ton or two apiece.
A ton or two apiece.
And how many of them do you have?
Six.
Six.
So here will be the three million volts.
Here will be this incredible circle of magnets, seven circles.
And then at some point you are going to, you're going to go through it.
Now, here's Dave in Houston, Texas.
He says, Madman, I have relatives in St.
Joseph, Missouri.
Is that far from you?
That's west of the town I'm in.
Okay.
My father-in-law owns St.
Joseph Electronics.
If you run short of capacitors or resistors, drop by.
That's where I get all my parts from.
Really?
Yeah.
I go there all the time.
I'm probably their number one customer.
Heck, I stopped them buying a bunch of parts for a Cascade multiplier.
And heck, I'm always happy to see him because every time I go there I spend a couple, heck, last time I was there I spent $1,500.
Oh man.
Alright, well this is Dave in Houston and I guess maybe you've got a little pull now because this is relative, alright?
Okay.
So mention Dave in Houston when you go back next time, maybe he'll get you a discount.
Okay.
Alright, plus of course if you never come back then you can go down and recover.
Anyway, Dear Art and Madman, it sounds like a one-way trip.
You best think about it a little more.
I dream of time travel myself, but I don't feel it's worth my life.
Now that's a good question, madman.
Listen, by the way, I should say, I was talking to my board op op in Oregon during the break, and he said, look, mad as this guy may sound, A, he's really doing it, B, a lot of people thought Thomas Edison was totally out of his mind, and a lot of other inventors who have done things like your Apparently about to do, Michael.
And maybe you're not so mad after all.
And maybe it's people like you that get out on the cutting edge, that really do make the jumps, the leaps in technology that others are afraid to try.
So, little kudos for you there.
All right.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Uh, yes.
Uh, I was wondering, um, I think everyone needs to understand or think about the scale on which he's working.
Um, I'm reminded of another movie, uh, Time Cop.
Uh, what are some of the moral ramifications of what you are doing?
I mean, traveling back in time.
Another, well, he's, he thinks, wait a minute now, he thinks he's going forward in time, not back.
Yes, but he said he was also considering working on going back in time.
Yeah, he, as a matter of fact, he did, and, uh, Uh, it's a very good point.
What do you mean by moral ramifications?
In other words, that he might change something that would affect all of us?
Exactly.
It's a good point.
And we'll have him address that in a second, but here's another suggestion, Madman.
Tell him, before he goes, he should put $10,000 in a reinvesting CD and take his bank book with him.
When he arrives, if he arrives, he'll be a rich man.
Barry in Arizona.
That's worth your consideration.
But what about this caller's question?
The moral question?
That you might instead go back in time, disrupt something, and cause havoc?
Well, that's assuming.
Actually, I would if, like I said, I showed up in the same universe I left, but I've been talking with a lot of quantum physicists and they think, well, they think it's virtually impossible to stay in the same universe.
If that's the case, then whatever I do won't affect this one.
So... That's a good point.
How about that, caller?
That seems to satisfy my... Thank you.
Alright, you're welcome.
Thank you.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Hi, how are you doing?
This is Dave from Kent.
Hi, Dave.
Yeah, I got a question for you, Madman.
Why do you associate the disappearance of the object directly with time?
Heck, I got asked that question last time, too.
It just, well, not a heck over the top.
I didn't really, at first, I didn't really know what to think.
Heck, I thought it maybe, like, teleported or something like that.
Well, basically, it fits, like, basically all the current quantum physics theories and stuff like that.
Have you explored any other possibilities, maybe depending on light waves or something, to describe light waves?
Yeah, that's what I was thinking, too.
Similar to what the field death experiment people set out to do, but they ended up messing up time.
That's why I was concerned about that possibility, too.
Like I said last time I was on the show, maybe that made it feel intense enough to bend light.
Now, let me ask this, Batman.
Are you not at all concerned?
That like in the Philadelphia Experiment, yeah, sure.
You'll go through something, alright.
But, uh, what is the garage floor made out of?
Uh, concrete.
Concrete.
Well, um, suppose half of Madman's, you know, in the concrete.
The other half is above concrete, and there's no one there to help you.
Oh.
Hmm.
That's something to think about, too.
I don't know what would be worse, getting fired or getting stuck in concrete.
Uh, or this.
Uh, Art, if Madman goes back in time, ask him to please find out the following.
A, if Bill really inhaled.
B, if Hillary threw the lamp.
And C, who killed Vince Foster.
Uh, that's also from right there in Kansas City.
So, uh, it's a little request in case you happen to go back.
Yeah.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Hi.
Oh, Wild Card Jack from northwest Colorado.
Yes, sir.
And what a no.
If, uh, you know, with all that electronic equipment and electromagnetic stuff, if you have or have considered using any of Stan Dale's formulas or theories on gravitation or anything like that, maybe diversify your effort a little bit.
Well, he's using a massive rotating magnetic field, sir.
Massive.
Yeah.
Yeah, but the only way to get more massive is to use a particle accelerator.
That's right.
I mean, this will be a very serious magnetic field.
There's no question about it.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Hi.
Hi, how you doing?
Okay.
This is Rick from Indio, California.
Yes, sir.
And I was wondering, in fact, if he does go in time, let's say he goes in like two years.
Yeah.
Well, in that one year time, in real reality, he has died.
What happens, is he dead then, or is he, where is he then?
Can't come back, see?
Well, that goes back to, that goes back to that, it's called the Multiverse Theory is what it is.
Um, like a, okay, like in Time Cop that guy ran into himself and basically a disaster happened.
Yeah.
Well, actually, the way I think it would happen, um, It'd be just like another person.
I'd shake his hand or shake my other self's hand and do whatever, but I wouldn't do anything.
But if I died in part of that time and just basically skipped over that time, the time that I died, I wouldn't know it.
Okay, I was just curious about that.
And also on the UFOs, when they're talking about the UFOs, like the 48 magnets you were talking about?
Yeah.
I think sort of UFOs do work that way, where they've got a magnetic field to where they use our North Pole and South Pole, where they can magnetize the unit itself, and that's how they travel.
Yeah, that could easily be.
I think you're on the right track, but I'm cautious about encouraging you, but it sounds like you're going ahead no matter what.
So again, I will come and I really will videotape this.
This needs to be carefully documented.
Or one of many reasons.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Yeah, hi, I have a question.
Go ahead, we barely hear you.
Yeah, I have a question.
I'm sort of a Star Trek fan, but anyway, what about the question, what if he ripped open sort of a hole in the universe and which would cause You know, this part of the universe to kind of be sucked through it.
In other words, environmental implications?
Well, that would happen with a black hole because of the intense gravitational field, but this is an electromagnetic field.
As far as I know, as long as nobody on the other side came through this side, and nobody on this side came to the other side, nothing would happen.
So it would be a localized effect and it would not Yeah, now if I use gravity instead of electromagnetism, that's another problem.
I read in this book, if you take 1,600 tons of iron, if you could compress it down to the critical diameter for a black hole, it'd be quite small.
It'd be roughly, I think, well, That's the size of a couple hundred atoms clumped together.
That's small, all right.
Yeah, well, it's like, what would happen, it would, it would potentially, it's, it's, it ain't no way to contain this thing.
If you dropped it, it'd sink to the center of the Earth and eventually swallow up the whole darn planet.
Well, uh, I hope that won't happen.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Hello.
Hi, this is Chris, right, from Eastern Kentucky.
Hello, Chris.
I was just wondering, I don't think anyone's, uh, I haven't thought this up yet, but you've kind of hit on it here and there with the Philadelphia experiment stuff.
But what might be the biological implications to you when you go through it?
Well, severe.
I mean, he could be a french fry.
Well, I mean, just beyond that.
There's been a lot of... If I make it.
Yeah, if you make it through, yeah.
Or you could survive it wholly intact.
Or you could come out on the other side with a shredded liver.
I mean, who knows?
Well, what I'm referring to is the electromagnetic field effects on the human body.
There's been a lot of studies on that here.
Yeah, I can tell it is pretty tense, and it does affect the iron in your blood.
I mean, you might end up, you know... I don't think it's... well, it's intense enough to... heck, I never have really bothered to guess, like, how much golf it is.
Caller, do you think that Madman should be allowed to continue as an entrepreneur, since he has not taken anything, or be arrested, or C, institutionalized?
Well, personally, I think he should be allowed to go ahead and go through with this.
I mean, he's not hurting anybody but himself if anything does go wrong.
True.
And if he were to just have been very quiet about this and not let anyone know about it... Well, you know, he was.
He was.
I mean, let's be fair.
And when he got arrested, no one knew about it.
See, that's right.
Until the police moved in on him for appropriating those Transformers.
Uh, he hadn't told us all about any of this.
Well, what I mean is you weren't in the media and you weren't certainly contacted by me until the Kansas City newspaper article appeared.
Yeah.
So he was not seeking publicity until The whole police thing.
Well, that kind of backfired, too.
I didn't want publicity then.
Basically, I went ahead and told them, though, because I thought they'd think, well, don't pick up my nutcase and stick me in a nut house, because I was pretty sure I was going to get prison sentence at the time.
Well, I don't think you're a nutcase.
I think you've got some very strong ideas.
Well, I don't think I'm a nutcase, either.
I was just thinking, well, maybe they'll pick up my nutcase.
I'm sure there'll be a percentage of people that feel that way.
But like I said, you're not hurting anyone.
Uh, and had you not been caught by the police, no one would have known about it.
Don't you agree, Caller, that I should videotape it?
Oh, yes, certainly, and I think that you should make that videotape available to your listeners.
You know I will.
And I'm a fairly new listener, only the last couple of weeks, and I'm just, you know, I love the show.
And I'm really serious when I say either, look, it's going to document what he has done.
I mean, if the guy just disappears without a trace, then we've got something on our hands.
Yeah, definitely.
If he vaporizes and all there's left is madman dust on the floor, then we have a memorial to a brave man who followed his heart, his instincts.
Well, I think he should do one thing before he steps through it.
I think he should patent his setup.
And make his blueprints available to your listeners.
Then you could sell it as either a time travel machine, or an improvement on the Kevorkian method.
Yeah.
You could do a lot of things with it.
I may be able to look at your leaflet while you're at it.
I'm sorry?
I'll make a pre-mention while you're at it.
That's right, and you have no idea how much money that kind of thing normally would cost.
And your machine could run them through like that.
All right, listen, we got a break here.
Caller, thank you.
Thank you, sir.
Madman, hold on.
We'll do one more half hour, okay?
Okay.
Madman Markham is my guest.
We will be back.
Heart Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line.
That's 702-727-1295.
First time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
702-727-1222.
Now, here again, Art Bell.
That's 702-727-1295.
First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
702-727-1222.
Now, here again, Art Bell.
The audience may be reminded that the Sony Corporation began in a garage in Tokyo.
Thank you.
Madman has a garage in St.
Joseph, Missouri.
There, something is destined to occur.
That one way or the other will change his life.
Or even end it.
And we will be there.
Videotaping it.
Alright, Madman, are you there?
Yeah.
Alright, uh... Hello, Art and Madman.
I have a thought for you.
What if you build this thing, get it all set up, turned on, and before you're able to walk through it, something or someone comes through from the other side?
Have you thought about that?
Uh, that's ran through my mind a few times.
And then he goes on to suggest, also, Art, since you're gonna be there, why don't you tie a rope, or maybe a cable, to Madman?
Then a few seconds after he walks through, you can pull him back.
Maybe a rope, but no metal cables.
Sorry.
Is that a good idea, Madman?
Actually, as long as life is tied to me, I might be able to.
That's one way to come back and stay in the same universe, so to speak.
I'm thinking as long as you've got something tethered to you.
Art, you might want to remind Madman, this is friendly advice, not to wear Button fly jeans when he walks through his device.
Metal buttons and three million volts do not mix.
That's from Michael in West Seattle, and that, of course, would be a horrible tragedy, too horrible to even contemplate.
So, I mean, they are really right.
You wouldn't want to wear a pair of pants with a metal fly or buttons.
You're going to want to Actually, it's going to be something similar to a diver's suit, is what I'm thinking.
That would be ideal.
Yeah, like covered in rubber.
Ideal.
Totally non-conductive.
Yeah.
Yeah, that makes sense.
All right.
You're on the air with Madman Markham.
Yeah, I talked to you the first time that I had heard you on Art Bell.
I called you up, and I know you had gotten a lot of calls.
You were kind of tired, I think, when I called you.
Yeah.
But you had said a few things to me, and I was just... A number of things I'd like to ask you real quick here.
One of the things you said about... Now, I think you had said it on the last broadcast about a couch disappearing.
Yeah.
Did you tell me that, or was that on the radio?
Well, you must have told... I don't remember that, so... Yeah, I probably just told you that.
Uh-huh.
Well, tell him, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Caller, wait.
Uh, Madman, what do you mean a couch disappeared?
Uh, that happened in front of four witnesses, too.
What?
Um, well, I didn't really think a whole lot of it, but I figured, uh, something like, one of my friends was saying a joke, we were at a party.
Yeah?
But, uh, anyhow, um, twenty, okay, this was, uh, I don't know, this wasn't too long after I got the utility transformers, um, basically about a week later, we, uh, me and, let's see, one, two, me and three others, let's see, Yeah, me and three other friends were basically like partying.
Okay, a friend of mine stands on the couch, reaches over the counter to get a beer.
Okay, then they go back and that was roughly 7 o'clock.
Okay, at 7.20 another friend of mine goes, Hey Mike, where's your couch?
And I wasn't, this was like in the room next to where I was, like the room I was in.
Right.
I go over there and my couch is not there.
So I figured, well, they're playing a joke on me.
So, anyhow, so I searched for the couch, like, I searched all over the house, can't find it, there's not, a couch is hard to hide.
I was about to say that, yeah.
Yeah, and, well, I couldn't find it anywhere, so I figured, well, maybe they took it outside, but they, there's only, like, the front door, I've seen them carry it out there, I don't think they, they couldn't, they'd have trouble carrying it out the back of those transformers sitting there.
Big ones, yeah.
So, so, when did the couch reappear?
It never did.
You mean this couch, to this day, is gone?
Well, if it ever did reappear, basically, the last thing I heard was that house I lived at before I moved to St.
Joe, when I moved out and some other people took that house over, well, that house burnt down.
They didn't blame it on you, did they?
No, I was nowhere near there.
Caller, go ahead.
Another thing, too, that you had said, which I thought was kind of interesting, You said it to me, and I don't know if you feel, I don't know what you would say about it, about the psychics.
Remember you said that they had kind of like forecasted or told you some things growing up?
There was a couple times you had talked to them and they said something to you about the timeline?
Do you remember saying anything about that?
Are you there?
No man.
Huh?
Do you remember anything about... Something about psychics?
About psychics, and they kind of looked into your future, and they kind of, there was like three different ones over a period of growing up years.
No, basically I just asked them when I was going to die, and they said roughly the same thing.
What did they say?
They said one said I was going to be 87, the other said I was going to die in 2060, and basically the other one said roughly the same thing.
So what do they know?
Yeah.
Alright.
One more thing, one more thing.
Yeah.
This Jacob's Letter concept, I kind of feel, you know, biblically, you look back in the Bible about the Tower of Babel, and it said that they were trying to build a tower to heaven, and that, you know, God had confounded the languages because they could have done it.
And I almost think that this kind of, like a Stargate kind of concept, this, you know, scholars have said that that was some kind of a Stargate, where they were actually trying to get Into a heavenly realm by building this tower, whether it was the pyramids or it was some kind of a... Well, it may take them to heaven.
All right, caller, thank you very much.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Hi, Art.
Hi, Madman.
Yes, hi.
Just real quick, if the Philadelphia Experiment really did happen, you know the government picked up a lot of it.
Oh, by the way, my name's Pete and I agree Anchorage, Alaska.
Okay.
If they really did do the experiments, you know they gathered a lot of information.
You wonder what they've been doing for the last 45, 50 years with that information.
You betcha.
The other thing... But without access to it... You know, even though I know it sounds crazy, somehow Madman may be on the right track.
That's what I'm thinking, too.
I was wondering... I used to work with high voltage transformers in Connecticut.
And when you put a heavy current to this copper and everything, it induces a large current field.
What I'm wondering is, how is a rubber suit going to protect them from that?
Alright, it's a valid question.
As far as the magnetic field?
Yeah, and the high voltage, yeah.
Well, like I said, if I use the tube, more or less the tube within a tube build, basically As long as that's arcing, as long as I don't touch it, I'm sorry.
As long as it's grounded, it's not going to arc to me.
It's not going to arc to me, especially when... See, when I go through this thing, I'm not going to be touching the ground.
I'm going to be in mid-air.
Mid-air.
In other words, you're going to have to almost jump through.
Yeah.
Well, alright.
Hold on, Madman.
We'll be right back.
With his new expanded plans, and actually it's more than plans.
Uh, Madman, about how far done toward the, uh, what I'm calling Stargate, how far done are you?
Uh, let's see, I got, so far I got two of the Circles done, uh, working on my third, and I got seven to do.
Uh, other than that, let's see... The Transformers?
Uh, all those are done.
All done?
Yeah.
Heck, more or less, all I got is the Electromagnets.
And then I got, like, a bunch of experimentin' to do.
So, we could be a month away from a call for the videotaping.
Yeah.
I think I'll talk as well.
Okay.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Hi.
Hi, how you doing?
Where are you, sir?
I am in Lakewood, Ohio.
Alright.
Okay, my question has been previously addressed.
I was just wondering, if it is a door that you could travel through, and then once you get there you could travel back, wouldn't something Possibly come through just on coincidence.
Yeah, that'd be a bad... You wouldn't want that.
Like Pandora's box, that?
Possibly?
No, like somebody from the outside sneak through back to here.
Yeah, just on coincidence of the space where it opened.
Or something.
Like something could be going through that space where it opened.
Oh, yeah, that could be true.
Like open right in front of an airplane or something.
Anything.
That's an awful thought.
Yeah.
I mean, there could be something that we could, you know, that just could destroy the world.
So what would you... Do you urge him to slow up and not do this?
No, not at all.
I mean, I just don't think it's possible because... Well, all right, all right.
Let me rephrase the question.
When Madman... When Michael walks through this, what do you think will happen?
I really don't know, because I think if time travel had been possible, we would have evidence That someone in the future had been coming back, I mean... So you think he's gonna... Well, maybe, no, that's another possibility.
Maybe they can figure out how to go, like, go forward and come back from the point they left, but can't go backwards.
So you think he's gonna be charcoal?
I don't know if anything's gonna happen at all.
Well, no, something will happen.
I just think if it had to have been time travel possible, we'd have evidence.
Oh, I, look, I, you know, that's a defeatist kind of attitude, isn't it, Batman?
Uh, yeah.
I mean, How are we to know until we try?
One thing's for damn sure, and that is, I would say the only thing that won't happen is nothing.
Something with three million volts and those rotating magnetic fields, sure as hell, something's gonna happen.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Yes, this is Sharon in Sacramento.
Hi, Sharon.
Hi.
I have a real technical Our limited technical awareness here, but concerning the mental and biological concerns, I just wanted to mention that Preston Nichols in the fourth Montauk book inadvertently discovered that titanium has shielding properties against detrimental frequencies, and I was thinking maybe he could wear a head shield of some sort under his rubber suit.
Oh, I think he plans a head shield.
Well, I've got one, but it's not made out of titanium.
It's made out of sheet tin.
Okay, well it was the special properties of titanium that I think were important there.
And I think what you're doing is wonderful.
I wish you the very best and I believe that there's a lot of energy in our mental focus and would just suggest that as you move on through this that you focus your intention on experiencing the highest possibility Not ignoring other possibilities, but that intention needs to be real clear that way.
Well, one thing's for sure.
If he fries, we will memorialize him on this show, and we will be sure the videotape is circulated as a great memorial to him, won't we, man?
Amen.
Amen.
That's a good way to end the call.
Amen.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Where are you, please?
Hi, this is Mark in Little Rock.
Hello, Mark!
How you doing?
I wanted to say that a caller called in earlier and was trying to ask a question that was associated with time and travel.
I think the answer to that could be that we only know about existence as life and existence as death and I guess he's trying to figure out is there anything else out there besides that or is there any distance in between?
Well, you may be talking to the man who's going to find that out.
And I just wanted to say, man, you've got some You got some guts, man.
I wish you the best.
All right.
All right, thanks.
There you are.
A lot of support, Matt Ben.
Are you surprised?
I don't think I did last time.
Well, when I was on the show last time, the first call was like, well, basically somebody saw I was going right to Anarchist.
I'm the one who wrote the Anarchist cookbook or something.
Yeah, well, they know better than that now.
But I mean, there's a lot of support.
I'm amazed.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Hello.
Hello.
Yes, sir.
Where are you?
Sacramento, California.
All right.
You're on the air.
Well, a couple of things.
I wanted to ask him why he was doing this.
And the other thing is, is he planning to go Back in time or forward in time?
Well, he thinks forward.
Let's deal with your first question.
It really is a good one, Madman.
Why?
Why are you doing this?
Are you driven?
Is it a compulsion?
Well, it's just something I've discovered.
I've seen where to take it.
Is it like something that... Now, I've seen your plans escalate from the little model to the big model.
Now to the Stargate model, I'm going to call it.
Yeah.
Then there's going to be the Stargate model, hopefully, later on.
Exactly.
Big Stargate model.
Exactly.
Well, this is big.
Now, I think what you're doing now is gigantic.
Well, I'm working with 3 million volts right now.
Hopefully, if everything works out good, I'll be playing with 80 million volts eventually.
That's about how they'll get with all the current insulating materials we've got now.
You may or may not even determine that that much voltage is needed.
I mean, for all you know, you're using ten times what you're going to need.
Well, it's like a...
One theoretical physicist said I need at least 40 million, but basically I'm on a limited budget now, so I'd have to
sell for three.
But I mean, this could blow you right into the 25th century.
Yeah.
All right, a first-time caller line.
You're on the air with Madman Markham.
Hello?
Oh, hello.
Yes, you're on the air, sir.
Where are you?
I'm in Jacksonville, Florida.
All right.
You were talking about how to figure out a way to make sure it worked?
Yes.
I'm thinking, get a cat, a radio transmitter, and... Why not a dog?
Well, you know, anything really that'll... Dogs make more noise, they bark a lot.
Maybe you could hear the dog on the other side barking, or whining.
No, what I meant was... A cat might just go to the other side and sit there like cats do, you know?
Well, you get, like, two stopwatches, start them both at the same time, attach one to the cat, and a radio transmitter.
I don't like this cat idea.
Well, see, the idea is when you find the cat, if you find the cat, if it really works, then stopwatches will be different.
Yeah, that would be true.
But, Madman, I really do recommend a dog.
I mean, cats just... It's, for example, when you say to a cat, come, it doesn't come.
So, if the cat was on the other side, it might just sit there.
Or, for all you know, it'd get on the other side and find a...
Uh, extra-dimensional bird, and that would be the last you'd heard of that cat.
Yeah.
It'd be gone.
At least the dog, you'd say, come on back here, Rover, and he'd be back.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Madman Markham.
Art!
Art, this is Brian from Oahu.
Hello!
Hey, yeah, uh, I need to ask you something.
Yes?
Uh, is this thing gonna generate a lot of heat?
Good question.
Madman?
Um... Um, well, let's see... Um...
Well, there's a current of approximately 3 milliamps.
I doubt it.
Now, as far as the electromagnets go, they'll be running pretty warm.
Yeah, well, what I'm wondering about is...
Maybe I don't wear this rubber suit, and you're going to get a lot of resistance and a lot of heat, and I wouldn't want that melting to you, and especially this tin shield you're talking about.
Well, if I use like the 2% of 2 version, basically... He does have a point.
I mean, what if the rubber suit literally melted into your skin?
God!
Man, use Nomex.
Just get one made, have the zippers pulled out of an old flight suit, a military surplus.
Hey, the other thing, I've got to go real quick.
I know you've got a lot of people wanting to talk to you.
Also, the videotape.
I don't know.
I can't remember exactly how videotape works, but with that type of magnetic field, you may not be able to get the videotape to work.
Well, I'll tell you what we'll do.
We'll take videotape.
We'll take digital cameras.
We'll take movie.
We'll do it right.
Yeah, and one last thing.
Yes?
I know some people mentioned this Montauk Project.
I heard something about an alternative one, two, and three, and then Philadelphia Experiment all tied in.
Yep.
There was supposed to have been an underground experiment, okay?
Apparently, something happened where it scared them enough that they filled this whole thing in with concrete and then stayed away.
Now, that's the government, right?
I've heard that.
Yeah.
Now, if they were worried that you were going to be opening up something that they were scared enough to put concrete in, they'd stop you.
Or, if they realized that you weren't on the right track, they'd leave you alone.
All right.
That's true.
Listen, Madman, we're coming to the end.
We've got to go.
Um, I want you to give out your address for everybody again, alright?
Because there's a lot of people who want to contact you.
Okay.
Before you go, so to speak.
So, um, what is your address?
It's, uh, 209-1-2.
Actually, it's Mike Markham, right?
Yeah, Mike Markham.
M-A-R-K-U-M.
Uh, C-U-M.
M-A-R-C-U-M.
Yeah, U-M.
M-A-R-C-U-M.
Yeah.
Okay, and the address?
Uh, 209-1-2.
209-1-2.
South 13th Street.
South 13th Street, right?
Yeah, uh, St.
Joseph.
Right.
Missouri.
64501.
64501.
So instead of being up three days taking phone calls, you will respond to their letters?
Oh yeah.
Okay, and uh, do you need any help?
You need a big capacitor, right?
Uh, yeah, I need a, let's see, The main thing I need right now is for the output of the cascade multiplier I need like a really big capacitor to take down the ripple of the output.
How big?
10,000 volts at about 25,000 microfarads.
That is going to be a big capacitor.
Yeah, I've seen a few, like AC oil capacitors.
Well, utility companies, they want to part with them, but those are AC oil.
They're electrolytic type.
Well, look, you're reaching a big audience.
Somebody will come up with one for you.
Do not go appropriate one.
Oh, heck no.
All right, those days are over, right?
Yeah.
All right, Madman, I mean Mike.
Thank you, Mike, and it's been a pleasure having you here.
Don't forget, call me before you leap.
I will.
That's like a call before you dig.
Only in this case, call before you leave.
That, folks, is Madman Markham.
Affectionate term.
Thomas Edison or loony bin material.
Who knows?
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