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July 11, 1996 - Art Bell

02:48:34

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Graham Hancock - Message of the Sphinx

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01:22:38

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 11th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning across all these many, many, many time zones.
		From the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands in the west, eastward, over flyover country, that's all about.
		To the U.S. Caribbean, the Virgin Islands, South into South America, north to the Pole worldwide on the internet.
		This is Coast to Post AM.
		Good morning, everybody.
		It is great to be here.
		I'm Arbell, and my guest's coming up, and we are going to devote this evening, mostly to Paul.
		My guest coming up is Graham Hencock, author of Fingerprints of the God, the Message of the Speaker, and a very knowledgeable guy about things Egyptian.
		We have him as a guest time lives, what was it, a couple of weeks ago.
		He has been on a U.S. book tour.
		He just jetted in from Japan, I think, Tokyo.
		We'll find out here in a minute.
		Then slept today and is now awake.
		You know how that is, or maybe you don't, but it's strange.
		Zooming across time zones, you don't know where you are after a while.
		All right.
		We will get to Graham and your hall, so if you want to start stacking up on the lines early, you're going to get a good shot here.
		Because last time we pretty much hogged Graham to ourselves.
		This time, it's your turn.
unidentified		This time, it's your turn.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 11, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from July 11, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The news briefly, Bertha is aiming for the Carolinas, probably going to make landfall somewhere between Myrtle Beach and Charleston sometime between 9 a.m. and noon.
		That would be roughly the time I get off the air in the morning, and six hours from then.
		Three hours from then.
		And so sometime in the morning, but she has weakened some, 80 miles an hour, still a hurricane, no question about it.
		And we'll just have to wait and see.
		There are warnings all the way up to the North Carolina-Virginia border.
		And we'll just have to wait and see.
		This has been one unpredictable hurricane.
		Other than that, you may recall my guest Graham Hancock by great waves of popular demand and a U.S. tour, and I guess a quick trip to Japan.
		Graham, and I suspect that we have him this evening because his time zones probably are as fouled as time zones can get.
		Once you do enough flying, it all mixes together after a while.
		He is author of Fingerprints of the Gods, The Message of the Sphinx.
		It is an area of great fascination to many people.
		Let me give you the call-in numbers because tonight it's your turn.
		If you're a first-time caller to the program, the number is Area Code 702-727-1222.
		The wildcard lines, Area Code 702-727-1295.
		West of the Rockies, 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, it's 1-800-825-5033.
		And here is Graham Hancock.
		Hi, Graham.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, great.
		Welcome to the program.
		Where are you now?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Washington, D.C. Washington, D.C. Recovering from a 13-hour flight from Tokyo, Japan, as you rightly observe.
unidentified		And I must say, these long flights really are...
unidentified		It does make you...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		You see the curvature of the Earth beneath you and how small and how precious it all is and how we are affected incredibly by the rhythms of life on this planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are your rhythms?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you sure?
unidentified		Well, I'm not quite sure when I am or where I am, but I feel pretty good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, your U.S. book tour was a smashing success, was it not?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It went very, very well.
		And in fact, I was in Japan for the same reason, because Fingerprints of the Gods was published in Japan three months ago, and it's just been an extraordinary success there.
		In fact, when I arrived, they announced that they'd sold 750,000 copies, three-quarters of a million copies in three months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my gosh.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It's just gone completely crazy in Japan.
		I was very excited by the visit.
		They're very, to my surprise, very open-minded and welcoming people.
		And I had a great time there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Graham, that's a good general question.
		Why do you think that this whole genre of investigation, this whole area, has gone so absolutely crazy?
		I mean, it just is exploding all over the world, not just here in the U.S. That's right.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It's a universal phenomenon.
		It's happening everywhere.
		And I think that what it is, is that people are waking up everywhere to the big questions, getting less focused on trivial day-by-day issues and asking themselves very, very large questions about who we are and why we are here.
		And it sounds like the ultimate cliché, but what is the meaning of life?
		What is it all for?
		People are asking themselves these questions all around the world.
		And the answers that they're coming to, first and foremost, is that what we've been spoon-fed for the last century by our governments and by orthodox religion and by our economists and by social leaders of all kinds is just not satisfactory at all.
		And people are looking in a much bigger framework these days and asking very large questions and looking for information that just has not been made generally available.
		So people are on a quest.
		They're searching.
		They're looking.
		And this is leading.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, if I ask you that question, Graham, how do you answer?
		You know, that's the biggie.
		What is the meaning of life?
		What does Graham Hancock think it is?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you what I think it is.
		To the best that I can say, I think it's a mystery.
		I think life is a spiritual mystery.
		I didn't think this 10 or 15 years ago.
		I really did think that we were just a kind of chemical accident, a fairly unfortunate chemical accident at that.
		I've completely changed my view on all of these issues.
		And I think that we're involved in a very, very mysterious process that has to do with perfecting and equipping ourselves, preparing ourselves for something bigger and something beyond.
		I've come to regard life as an extraordinary opportunity to learn and to grow and to develop.
		And I don't think that anything that we learn, any experience that we encounter, any challenge that we overcome is wasted.
		I think it's all part of something that we add to ourselves as we go along.
		And I think that every time we take refuge in illusions of safety and security and fail to take the opportunities that life throws at us to transcend ourselves, I think we're letting ourselves down very, very badly.
		I've come to believe passionately that consciousness can and does survive death.
		And since I do believe that, I think that every moment I spend on this planet is precious and must not be wasted.
		And that's the view I honestly and genuinely try to communicate to everybody I talk to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So perhaps the meaning is not designed to be discerned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe the meaning is the quest itself.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		The meaning, you're absolutely right, the meaning is the quest itself.
		This is the journey of life.
		It's to discover as best we can who and what we are.
		And because I have been immersed in ancient texts and ancient wisdom for so long now, I no longer ridicule such notions as reincarnation.
		I think probably we do come back in all kinds of different experiences and lifetimes, because one lifetime is not enough.
		There's a continual process of learning and growing and developing.
		And all the ancient religions say that eventually we reach a moment when we do transcend.
		For the ancient Egyptians, the ultimate objective was to become a star.
		Imagine that, become a star, become a sun in the sky, distributing life throughout the universe, full of light and warmth and altruism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Graham.
		Can I ask you just a straight-out question?
		I had somebody, after your last appearance, they called me up and they said, it's ridiculous.
		You know, we could build the pyramids.
		Who's to say we couldn't build the pyramids?
		What is the evidence that we could not build the pyramids or could not have then built the pyramids?
		What is the best evidence?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, the best evidence is that we haven't done it.
		We haven't built the pyramids, nor anything like them.
		We've built temporary, ugly, meaningless pieces of architecture all around the world that are not connected to any powerful spiritual force.
		You see, the pyramids, the three great pyramids of Egypt and the great Sphinx, are much, much more than just three massive buildings.
		They are a place of spiritual transformation.
		They have an extraordinary effect upon the soul.
		And there is nothing, nothing that we build today which does that or which has that effect because we have lost the knowledge of how to do so.
		Perhaps if we were to expend an enormous quantity of skill and effort and ingenuity, perhaps we could create something like the Great Pyramid.
		Although I can tell you there have been two attempts in modern times, one by an American team and one by a Japanese team, to build a pitiful little 30-foot-high pyramid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what happened?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		And they both failed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They failed.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		The Great Pyramid is more than 450 feet tall and weighs 6 million tons.
		These two modern attempts attempted to do the job, first of all, using what they thought was the technology that was used in the building of the pyramids.
		And you have to understand that, according to Orthodox theory, the ancient Egyptians had basic, very simple copper tools.
		They didn't have the wheel or anything like this.
		So initially, both of these teams, one was from Waseda University in Japan, another involved Mark Lehner of the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago.
		They tried to do the job with simple tools.
		And they really, the Japanese attempt was a total disaster.
		And Mark Lehner and his team managed to build one-third of their pitiful little 30-foot-tall pyramid before giving up.
		And what both of these attempts demonstrated, the Japanese actually had to give up using so-called ancient technology and started trying to use cranes.
		And even this failed.
		It was a dismal, laughable joke.
		And it shows that we don't actually even have the technical ability to do that job with that perfection on that scale.
		But the technical ability, to me, is much less interesting than the spiritual effect of these monuments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How could they have done it, Graham?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, They knew something, many things, that we do not know.
		And actually, I don't know how they did it.
		All I know is they didn't do it the way that our scholars, our Orthodox scholars, tell us they did do it.
		That I'm sure of.
		As sure as I can be of anything on the face of this earth, they didn't build it with teams of unwilling workers and ramps a mile long.
		No, it wasn't done that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, before we go to the phones, this is very important.
		I got several panicked communications.
		This is really interesting, Graham, from some people up in the Bay Area in San Francisco after the last program we did.
		And they were very, very concerned about the commercialization of the opening of the Sphinx.
		Yes, I know.
		I know you are.
		But they wanted to do something.
		So they called the Egyptian embassy.
		And the person there at first kind of poo-pooed the whole thing and said, no, this isn't happening.
		And so the person then forwarded a lot of your information to this official in the embassy.
		And about two hours went by, and the call came, and the embassy guy was totally freaked out, to use the street term.
		I mean, he was very upset.
		He said, my family goes way back, and I'm sorry to say, but it looks as though your information is accurate.
		Sort of thing.
		Yeah, interesting, right.
		So the question is, people who are disturbed about the manner of the procession of the opening of this, who do they respond to?
		Who do they write to?
		How do they become active?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you that there's been a safety development on this because just today I gave a presentation on this matter after coming in from Japan and before having my nap, I gave a presentation on this matter to the Egyptian ambassador in Washington and provided him with full documentation and asked him to look into this, which he promised to do.
		Because my impression is that the majority of officials in the Egyptian government are not fully in the picture about what is happening.
		The control over the monuments of Giza has been delegated to a subcommittee within the Egyptian Antiquities Organization, and that subcommittee is deeply and powerfully influenced by a man called Zahi Hawass, who is the official responsible for the pyramids and the Sphinx.
		And Zahi Hawass is directly personally involved in the project that is taking place at the Sphinx at the moment and indeed plays a starring role in the ghastly commercial promotional videotape produced by the team who are working, who have got the license to do the work at the Sphinx.
		And I'm not sure how much further knowledge of this goes within the Egyptian government, but I think that the more noise we all make about this, the more likely this horrific project is to be stopped.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, where do we direct the noise?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that I believe very strongly in concentration of force.
		And while it would be good for people, I think that what needs to be done is to get a major newspaper or a major investigative television program in this country to actually go to Giza to question all the officials involved, to question the Florida State University officials who are involved in this project,
		To question Joseph Shore, S-C-H-O-R, who is the individual through the Shore Foundation who is largely involved in financing this project, and to get full details on what is happening and to report this.
		And my knowledge of the American media is not as wide as it should be, but I would say that rather than send letters to lots of different programs or newspapers, it would be worth nominating one or two and have everybody write to them and say we're concerned about this matter and we want it investigated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, it's got to be somebody with the resources.
		I would say CBS's 60 minutes might be a good target.
		Yes.
		They have the resources to go there and do as you have suggested.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Graham, what do you think's inside the Chamber of the Sphinx?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, curiously enough, and I can only report this anecdotally, without being able to tell you that it is definitely fact, we've had a leak of information from one of the people involved in the team working at the Sphinx.
unidentified		Oh.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		And that leak of information, and I repeat, I cannot confirm that this is definitely the case, but it is interesting because it's from one of the people who has been working at the Sphinx with this team in the last couple of months using ground-penetrating radar and seismic equipment.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		And that leak of information says that they have found nine underground chambers and that metallic objects have been identified in all of those nine chambers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		That's the information that I was given.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How good do you think that information is?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I think it's pretty good.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I think that it's the genuine obstacle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nine underground chambers, and they've located...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is the equipment sensitive enough to discern the nature at all?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I know nothing more beyond what I've told you just now.
		This was a leak of information.
		People who are working on this project are supposed to be sworn to secrecy and not to tell anybody anything about it.
		But this is the leak that we received.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's some leak.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
		Particularly since if we examine the ancient Egyptian traditions concerning the quote-unquote hall of records, concerning the secrets, the great secret of the gods that they say is concealed at Giza, it speaks of books, documents, records going back to the time of the gods.
		And it says that this record chamber is guarded by metal statues of curious or strange abilities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On that note, we're at the bottom of the hour.
		We're going to come back and take calls.
		Holy mackerel.
		Boy, am I glad we had Graham back.
		That's some leak, isn't it?
		We'll be back with Graham Hancock, author of Fingerprints of the Gods and more in a moment.
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		On this, Somewhere in Time.
		On this, Somewhere in Time.
		On this, Somewhere in Time.
		On this, Somewhere in Time.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast Coast AM from July 11th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Graham Hancock, author of The Message of the Spins, the latest fingerprints of the God.
		New information.
		Leaked information.
		Nine chambers below the Spinx.
		Metallic objects detected.
		Yikes.
		By the way, I just got a fact from Stephen in Lemongrove, California.
		Hey, Art, about the GE Super Radio.
		I'm not one to idly support anything.
		Got one.
		You're going to have to pry it out of my cool dead hands.
		We'll get back to Graham Hancock in a moment.
unidentified		Graham Hancock in a moment.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 11th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I'm a big fan of cats.
		Somebody sent this one line to me that has stuck with me all day today that I absolutely love.
		It simply says, Hi, Art.
		Thousands of years ago, the Egyptians worshipped cats as gods.
		Cats have never forgotten this.
		That's it.
		Is that true, by the way?
		Did they worship cats as gods, Graham?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No.
		I think that there's a grave misunderstanding of the nature of Egyptian religion, and this has partly been spread by our Egyptologists who make it their business to try to trivialize as much as possible this extraordinary ancient civilization.
		Everything about ancient Egyptian religion is symbolic.
		It's symbolism.
		And they use symbolism at several different levels of meaning.
		And all the animal figures, the animal masks which we see in Egyptian reliefs have symbolic functions.
		And often these symbolic functions at root are astronomical.
		The feline symbolism in Egypt is, we're quite sure, is associated with the constellation of Leo, the lion constellation, and represents that constellation and the way that that constellation marks a particular age or epoch.
		And we find that same symbolism expressed in the Great Sphinx, which is a lion-bodied monument.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If Graham Hancock were standing at the door, that first door leading to the first chamber beneath the Sphinx, and you were able to go through it, would you have trepidation or would you march right through?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		No, I would have immense trepidation about going through it.
		These places are not meant to be marched into.
		I do think that they were meant to be found.
		But I think that what is required is a period of preparation, of careful preparation.
		And that's one of the reasons amongst many why I think that the project currently granted a license by the Egyptian Antipodes Organization of the Sphinx must be stopped forthwith and the license must be withdrawn while proper consideration is given to how this matter should be followed up.
		I do definitely believe that these chambers should be opened.
		I think, however, that the question of exactly which teams open them and under what circumstances they are opened should be very, very carefully weighed up and considered by the Egyptian authorities and others internationally should have a very direct input into this because the pyramids and the Sphinx are a legacy of all of mankind.
		And one of the things we should consider is what the ancient texts say about the sanctity and significance of these chambers and about the state of mind of those who enter them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		What can you imagine might be there?
		In other words, maps, machines, religious literature, legacy of mankind-type literature.
unidentified		What would...
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It's material that one could call broadly historical in nature, which records the lost story of human civilization, the civilization that had the capacity 12,500 years ago to conceive of this extraordinary scheme, and that date of 10,500 BC is fully evidenced in my books, Fingerprints of the Gods, and in The Message of the Sphinx.
		So, partly historical in nature, definitely a hall of records containing a sort of time capsule of information from a forgotten episode in human history.
		But also, the Egyptian traditions tell us that what is concealed there touches on the fundamental mystery, the mystery of the immortality of the human soul and of how we should live our lives in order to prepare for the journey that we will make after death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That information could change the entire world.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I believe that that information could change the entire world, and I believe it was intended to change the entire world, and that it was always conceived of as that a time would come when it would do that.
		Look, we're looking here at a very careful attempt to hide away time capsules, and I repeat this is in plural, two places, not just one place at Giza.
		And for me, this is part of the significance that we don't only have a chamber underneath the Great Sphinx, but we also have a chamber inside the Great Pyramid, the doorway to which was discovered by a robot camera in 1993.
		I mentioned this on your last show, but just to fill in those who weren't with us then, the Great Pyramid of Egypt, which weighs 6 million tons, has within its massive superstructure four very unusual features which are not found in any other pyramid.
		And these are narrow shafts which angle up steeply through the monument from inside two of the known chambers of the monument.
		And two of these shafts, they're just eight inches wide and eight inches high.
		You could roughly fit a small dog into the mouth of one of these shafts.
		Two of these shafts go all the way through the body of the pyramid and exit on the outside and actually point at particularly significant stars.
		And the other two shafts from the lower chamber do not exit on the outside of the monument.
		And it was these, both the northern and the southern shaft, that were explored by the German engineer Rudolf Gantenbrich in 1993 with a very high-tech robot camera.
		And in the northern shaft, after a journey of approximately 80 feet, the robot came to a bend in the shaft.
		There were some metal objects observed on the floor, which the camera could not capture in high definition.
		But they felt that they did not want to negotiate it around the bend unless it became stuck in the shaft.
		So they pulled it down.
		They then explored the southern shaft, and they reached the end of the southern shaft after a journey of 200 feet.
		And what was at the end of that shaft was a door, a portcullis door complete with two metal handles.
		And this was the point at which Rudolf Gantenbrink's project inside the Great Pyramid was cancelled forthwith by the Egyptian authorities and has never since been resumed.
		Although in a rather parallel case to what is happening at the Sphinx, and again involving this same Egyptian official, Zahi Hawass, an announcement has been made that a Canadian team will be involved in opening that door later this year.
		And again, there are signs of some sort of ghastly commercial enterprise surrounding this project as well.
		Now, if you were the survivors, let's just look at this theoretically, if you were the survivors of a lost civilization, of a civilization that was destroyed in the enormous cataclysm that brought the last ice age to an end, and a great civilization,
		I believe, and one with a high spiritual knowledge and purpose, if you had survived, if you were amongst the few survivors and you had precious knowledge that you wished to pass down to the future, and you would be far-sighted enough to know that mankind would revert to barbarism and that there would be a time of terrible darkness,
		perhaps for thousands of years, before humanity again reached a level where it could use this information, you would hide it away very, very, very carefully, but you would provide clues that would enable people eventually to find it.
		And I think that that's what we're looking at on the Giza Plateau in Egypt.
		We're looking at the clues that lead to specific locations.
		That shaft which led to that doorway was always a clue.
		The opening of that shaft was sealed until 1872.
		The last five inches of stone over the mouth of that shaft had been left deliberately in place.
		And if you walked into the lower chamber in the Great Pyramid, before 1872, you would just have seen blank walls.
		But a very enterprising engineer went around those walls one day, tapping with a hammer, and found two hollow-sounding points.
		And he chopped those through with a chisel.
		And lo and behold, there were the mouths of these two shafts ascending up at steep angles into the body of the pyramid.
		And it's in these shafts, as I say, that these discoveries were made in 1993.
		And I think the builders of that monument always intended them to be found, but did not intend them to be found by barbarians who would not know what to do with the knowledge hidden there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure what that says about our present state of social affairs.
		But Graham, you mentioned hints.
		Are there any hints about when these things should be found?
		I mean, is there any text, anything that tells us the timeline when these things should be found?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		There is a curious suggestion of this, which is locked deeply into the entire ancient Egyptian system of knowledge.
		And this is connected to the changing patterns of the stars and the great cycle of the constellation of Orion, which, like all the stars in the sky, changes its positions over a 26,000-year cycle.
		And the effect of this change in position is to cause its altitude above the horizon to continuously rise for 13,000 years, then to fall for 13,000 years, then to rise again for 13,000 years.
		And if we go back to the beginning of that cycle, we find ourselves in the period when these monuments, when this incredible site was originally conceived, which I'm absolutely adamantly certain is the epoch of 10,500 BC.
		And it is now a simple astronomical fact that we're at the end of the current cycle.
		We're at the highest altitude, whereas at that time the stars were at the lowest altitude.
		We were then at the first time of Orion Osiris, and we are now at the last time, what would be in astronomical terms literally the last of days.
		And there is a strong indication in that material that this is the time, the time we live in now.
		Of course, you're speaking in terms of vast expanses of thousands of years, and you would have to say, give or take 100 or 200 years, but it is our time.
		This appears to be the time that this was intended to happen.
		And when I look around the world and see the state and the mess that we are in, it frankly seems to me that this is indeed the time when we desperately need a vision from the past, something that will shake us up and help us to understand that we must, absolutely must find a new direction in life as a species if we are not to completely blow it, completely waste and destroy the opportunity we've been given.
		And that's why I'm so concerned about the projects that are taking place at Giza.
		I'm concerned with the secrecy surrounding these projects, and I'm concerned that objects could actually be removed from those chambers and could be taken away without the rest of us knowing anything about it whatsoever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I don't know a lot about the pyramids, but I remember all the old movies, Graham, about the pyramids and sand shifting and walls and rocks coming down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it not possible that if they go blundering in in the wrong way, Graham, there could be destruction?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it's highly possible.
		I would say it's highly possible.
		I would say that the ancient geniuses who created these structures had a profound knowledge of human nature and knew that greed and ego and the lust for power would come into play when these chambers were being discovered.
		And it is most probable, indeed, that they will have taken safeguards to protect against that, which still doesn't mean that the rest of us should be complacent about it.
		Perhaps the safeguard that they created was a psychological one.
		Perhaps the safeguard is us.
		Perhaps it's up to us.
		Perhaps it's up to the world community to assert definitely that these monuments are a legacy of the whole of mankind and that the research and the projects that are taking place at them cannot be monopolized in secret by a few wealthy and powerful individuals.
		Perhaps that's the safeguard.
		Perhaps it's awakening human knowledge which will protect these chambers ultimately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		One quick question, then we've got to go to the phones.
		Here it is.
		My question to Mr. Hancock, this is my facts.
		If the pyramids were not built, as the scholars say it was, by thousands of unwilling workers and made long sand ramps, then tell me, Mr. Hancock, how was it built?
		Please be specific if you are so sure how it was not built.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, we can be sure that it wasn't built with long sand ramps.
		There's simple engineering reasons for this.
		A team of human labor hauling a 2.5 ton block, and 2.5 tons is the minimum weight of a block in the Great Pyramid, cannot haul that block up an incline steeper than 1 in 10.
		Any steeper incline than 1 in 10 is impossible.
		Very detailed engineering studies have been done on this, and Robert Boval, who is, by the way, a construction engineer, my co-author on The Message of the Sphinx, Robert Boval and I report this information in The Message of the Sphinx in considerable detail.
		Now, a 1 in 10 ramp to reach the top of the Great Pyramid would have to be a mile long.
		If it were made of sand or mud or earth of any kind, it would collapse entirely under its own weight.
		The blocks being hauled up that ramp would cause the ramp itself to collapse.
		This is simple physics.
		The ramp would not support the weight of the blocks.
		Therefore, the only kind of ramp you could build which would be sufficiently stable to haul very heavy blocks, and I stress the minimum weight is 2.5 tons, there are blocks of 70 tons in the Great Pyramid, the ramp itself would have to be made of material as stable as the pyramids themselves.
		In other words, the ramps would have to be made of 2.5 ton blocks of stone as well.
		And a one-mile-long ramp reaching a height of 450 feet would occupy many, many times more area, of course, and more weight and millions and millions of times more material than the Great Pyramid itself.
		That material is nowhere to be seen around the Giza necropolis.
		That material that would have had to have been used to make those ramps has never been found.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then, Graham, can you conceive of how it was done?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or is the answer that that is part of the mystery?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		For me, that is part of the mystery.
		But I think it's clear that we are looking at a lost technology or a lost form of human knowledge.
		I pay attention to the many ancient Egyptian traditions that speak of priests using a kind of focused energy of the mind that they called hakau, which we primitively translate as magic, using focused energy of the mind to lift blocks of stone off the ground without effort, literally a levitation of the blocks of stone.
		I don't want to sound like some crazy, but you know, we are so rooted and grounded in our materialistic conception of how things can be done, our society has conditioned us like slaves ourselves to think that difficult tasks can only be accomplished by technology.
		And we fail to realize that we may not be using untapped capacities of the human mind.
		We may have the capacity as a species to do the most wonderful and extraordinary things, to achieve almost anything we can imagine, but we've got so fixed and locked into the technological way of thinking that we always look for a technological explanation.
		And that's why, since we know that there is no evidence, there is no surviving evidence of a high technology from the period of 2500 BC, we therefore go along with the Egyptologists when they come up with these ludicrous theories about slaves and ramps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then, Graham, isn't it possible That once this is opened and it is realized that mankind has been, in effect, going entirely in the wrong direction, in the technological direction, when there was all the while another direction we should have or could have been going in, it will explode everything.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's why this material is in fact so subversive and why there is such hostility and opposition to it by established authorities.
		Because this material questions the entire foundations of modern society, and it questions the entire ethic and philosophy of modern society, which has sought that the whole ethic of our society seeks to persuade us that we are nothing more than material beings and that we must define ourselves entirely in material terms and in technological terms and in terms of the objects that we possess.
		And so insidious and dark and ugly is this philosophy of modern society that we even come to regard other human beings as objects.
		And we're prepared to visit mass destruction on them without the blink of an eye.
		People use the bodies of other human beings as though they are objects to be traded.
		There was a case in England recently of two men who murdered a small child.
		They used his body and then murdered him and disposed of the body without a second thought, without a qualm, without a conscience.
		Monsters like that are the creation of our society.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's happening all over the world, Graham.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it's happening all over the world.
		And thank God something else is happening all over the world as well, which is that people are waking up to the other side of our character, to the possibility that we are capable of transcending ourselves, that we have something wonderful within us, something divine as well as something dark, and that we can reach that.
		But if we stay locked in the mindset of the late 20th century, locked in the mindset of technology and objects, and fail to realize our spiritual potential, then it's going to be a terrible loss.
		So I think we're at a crucial, critical turning point in the life of mankind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it possible, Graham, very quickly, because we're coming to the top of the hour, we never did get calls, is it possible that we will miss it, that Orion will come and go and mankind will not get to this information and or, worse yet, lose it?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I think it's entirely possible that we will miss it.
		I think it's entirely possible that we will miss this window of opportunity that exists at the moment.
		It's very possible, but I also think it's possible that we can seize the opportunity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I promise we go to the phones, relax, Graham.
		We'll be back to you.
		That hour just went...
unidentified		The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		The trip back in time continues with Art Bell.
		The trip back in time continues with Art Bell.
		Premier Network Presents.
		Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast A.M. from July 11th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The sign and the seal.
		Fingerprints of the gods.
		The message of the Sphinx, my guests.
		At the end of his American tour is Graham Hancock.
		Man, what an hour, last hour.
unidentified		Woo!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I meant to get to the phones, and I promise we'll do it here in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Graham Hancock, right back.
unidentified		Graham Hancock, right.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 11th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From Washington, D.C., once again, Graham Hancock.
		Graham, if you could answer one quick question, then to the calls, it's a facts from Torrance, California.
		Would you please ask Graham about a tool that Moses used to write the Ten Commandments?
		In his book, The Sign and Seal, he says that Moses went into the clouds on Mount Ararat.
		When he returned after using this tool, he had to cover his face.
		Was this some sort of powered tool?
		How is it powered?
		Was it a laser?
		What could it have been?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes, thank you for that question.
		It was while I was writing The Sign and the Seal, which is my quest for the lost Ark of the Covenant, that I first started to bump into these strange echoes of a kind of lost system of knowledge from long, long ago.
		Strange descriptions of objects and artifacts that seemed out of place in time and didn't fit with the orthodox view of history at that time.
		And actually, I think that the person who sent the facts is getting a couple of points that I made in the Sign of the Seal mixed up.
		There is a strange tool, I guess would be the word for it, that I refer to in the Sign of the Seal, which was known as the shamir, the stone that cuts rocks, or in some translations, the worm that cuts rocks.
		And this strange device was said to have cut through the hardest of rock without creating any friction or heat, that it was to have been soundless in operation,
		and to have had such a nature that it had to be kept in a lead container, that any other form of container would become dangerous because of it.
		And this strange object is said in ancient Judaic traditions to have been used in the construction of the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem, because there was a prescription against using iron tools in the cutting of the ashlar blocks of the Temple of Solomon.
		And therefore it is said in many ancient Judaic traditions that the shamir was used instead.
		Some kind of device that we don't understand, which was capable of cutting the hardest rocks.
		said that it could engrave tiny letters onto jewels.
		Yes, it does sound like some Like some kind of laser, art.
		With an energy source.
		Now, the other point that the person who sent the facts makes is right.
		The Bible tells us that Moses, in fact, went up Mount Sinai twice, two periods of 40 days.
		At the end of the first 40-day period, he came down with the, supposedly, with the Ten Commandments written on two tablets of stone by the finger of God.
		And he found the Israelites worshiping the golden calf.
		And the Bible says that he destroyed the two tablets of stone at that time.
		He then returned back up the mount, up Mount Sinai, spent another 40-day period there, and came down with two more tablets of stone.
		And this time, when he came down, his face is reported to have glowed so horribly that all his followers were terrified, and that ever afterwards, until the end of his days, he had to wear a veil over his face.
		It sounds like he was bent.
		And when you listen to the descriptions of what went on at the top of Mount Sinai in the Bible and in extra-biblical sources, it does sound very, very odd.
		And for me, the answer to this, and it was really the research I was doing on that, that led me to the research of fingerprints of the gods and from there to the message of the Sphinx, because the background of Moses is the crucial issue.
		Moses grew up in the household of a pharaoh of Egypt.
		In fact, he was groomed as a potential pharaoh.
		And this means that he would have been initiated into all the high wisdom and knowledge of ancient Egypt.
		And I think that much of the magic and miracles associated with Moses needs to be understood in context of his Egyptian background as a high initiate, as a high priest, in fact, in the Egyptian tradition.
		And even the Ark of the Covenant itself, I found, has precedence in Egyptian traditions.
		Golden boxes are described, which when opened produce a jet of flame that comes out and burns, consumes anybody standing around them.
		That's exactly what the Ark of the Covenant did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we are not to open that, are we?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I would say not, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's go to the phones.
		We promised we've got to do it.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening.
unidentified		Hi, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		Speak to both of you, Mr. Bell and Mr. Hancock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in the San Joaquin Valley of California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, go ahead.
unidentified		Just two quick points.
		The first thing is you notice on the back of the $1 bill, the pyramid with the eye.
		Yes.
		Are you familiar with the purpose and what that means?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me tell you what the symbol meant to the ancient Egyptians.
		It meant the immortality of the soul.
		They called it the Benben, and it was the top or the pyramidion, the top point of a pyramid, and you also see the same device on top of all obelisks.
		And it was associated with immortality.
		It was a symbol of immortality, and it was the primary symbol of ancient Egypt.
		I think, and I really think that the evidence for this is very strong, and indeed Robert Boval and I plan a second book and are working on the initial research of that at the moment, which will go into this, that the ancient Egyptian wisdom tradition,
		which was a tradition aimed at the spiritualization of mankind, did go underground after the destruction, the final destruction of Egyptian civilization under the jackboot of the Roman Empire, that this wisdom tradition went underground and that it has found many ways to filter through into the modern world and to express its symbolism in the modern world.
		And there could be no more effective way of subtly impressing that symbolism on millions and millions of people than on placing it on the most common currency, the most widely distributed currency in the world, the U.S. $1 bill.
unidentified		Also, I wanted to quickly mention that as a scientist, many of my friends, I believe you know Dr. Patrick Flanakan, is that correct?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		The name rings a bell, but you better remind me.
unidentified		Okay, I'm holding the book in my hand that was published in 1974 called Pyramid Power by Dr. Patrick Flanakin.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It's autographed.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I had come across the book, yes.
unidentified		It's autographed to me, and in the book, it covers subjects about magnetic fields around the body, how it affects the body.
		He spent many days in the pyramids.
		As a matter of fact, he slept in the pyramid.
		He recorded some of the dreams that he had, incredible dreams.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I can believe it.
unidentified		Are you familiar with the sacred cut that he speaks of, the golden section?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
		And the golden section is expressed in the mathematics of the so-called King's Chamber, which we believe was a chamber of initiation.
		It was used in the...
		And that the frequent out-of-body experiences which modern people who have spent the night in the King's Chamber of the Great Pyramid report are connected to this ancient ceremony, that the initiatory function Of these monuments is still active today, that they're working all by themselves, even without the cultural context that once energized them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, try this out.
		This goes to Mr. Hoagland's work, I believe.
		Graham, the shafts in the pyramid at Giza were used to, quote, tune, end quote, the instrument to the base frequency of the earth.
		Purpose?
		To attempt to keep the earth in tune and prevent geologic disasters.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that when we look at monuments like the three great pyramids of Egypt, we are looking at complex, multifunctional monuments, which do many different things.
		To give a couple of, before I come to that point that you just raised, to give a couple of other examples, we know now that the three great pyramids represent on the ground the three stars of the belt of the constellation of Orion.
		They're laid out in exactly the pattern of those three stars, and indeed in the pattern of those three stars in 10,500 BC.
		So at one level, they're a stellar diagram.
		The Great Pyramid of Egypt is also a mathematical scale model of the northern hemisphere of the Earth.
		If you take the height of the Great Pyramid and multiply it by 43,200, which is not a random number, it would take me too long to explain why, but it's connected to the precession of the equinoxes, then you get the polar radius of the Earth.
		And if you take the base perimeter of the Great Pyramid and multiply it by the same value, 43,200, then you get the equatorial circumference of the Earth.
		So we're already seeing that these monuments can be at one level a model of the Earth, at another level that they map three stars in the constellation of Orion.
		And I think it's highly likely, I'm absolutely certain about the initiatory function of the monument, but extraordinary ceremonies took place inside them aimed at heightening and spiritualizing the consciousness of mankind.
		And we express this in the Message of the Sphinx.
		It is also highly likely that these monuments had a function related to the Earth itself and to the balancing of the Earth itself.
		Many people are unaware that the Three Great Pyramids stand precisely on latitude 30.
		And latitude 30 is exactly one-third of the way between the equator and the North Pole.
		This positioning is not accidental.
		These monuments may well have been designed to have a balancing function.
		And indeed, we go into this to some extent in an appendix in the Message of the Sphinx.
		And those shafts, whilst I'm certain that they had important symbolic and ritual functions, may also have had much more practical functions.
		So I would not dismiss that notion at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's a dumb question for you.
		The Mideast has always been a place that we've had to worry about, war and rumors of wars.
		Suppose there were a war.
		Suppose a nuclear device destroyed the Sphinx, the pyramids, the whole area.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I think that one of the very few things that perhaps could destroy the Great Pyramid would be a direct hit with a nuclear bomb.
		That's right.
		And again, this is a sign of the monstrous direction that our society has turned in, that we are capable of visualizing and creating devices such as these.
		This is one of the terrifying things about humanity, that those things which we imagine in one generation, we bring to fulfillment in the next.
		And when our imaginings turn dark and evil and wicked and cruel, look what we produce.
		Look what we have produced in this century.
		The atomic bomb, the horrible specter of a nuclear destruction and of a nuclear winter, the Holocaust, the mass destruction of the First and Second World Wars, as I was saying earlier, the manner in which people use other human beings as objects without any conception that the human life is a precious gift to be treasured and venerated, a light shining in the darkness.
		we've created the society that can do this and yes we've created the society that has that has harnessed the power of the sun and that can and that and that can through through it through nuclear processes could destroy the great pyramid of egypt well in other We have the power to turn out the light.
unidentified		Yeah, we do.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		We have the power to turn out the light on our own lives.
		We have the power to destroy the beautiful garden of experience that has been given to us.
		We have the power to destroy our own planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Graham and Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, ma'am?
unidentified		I have a strange story to tell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, tell us first where you are.
unidentified		I'm in Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Las Vegas, all right.
unidentified		When I was 11 years old, I had an out-of-body experience.
		A priest from ancient Egypt actually pulled me out of my body.
		And I learned that I was the reincarnation of Khufu's daughter.
		Later on, I joined the Illuminati, and I went to Egypt, and I was initiated in the pyramid.
		When I went to Cairo, when I came out of one of the mosques there, we were touring, a young boy came up to me and he said, I know you.
		And thinking he might be a relative of someone I knew in the space, I said, oh, you do it?
		He said, yes.
		You're Pharaoh's daughter.
		Your pictures are in all the tombs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you react when you hear this kind of thing, Graham?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, I react with a great sense of openness of mind.
		Because I think that I believe in reincarnation.
		I think we're talking in the area of belief here.
		Let's be very clear about this.
		When a scientist, and I mentioned this the last time that we were talking on your show, when a scientist asserts and insists that there is no life after death and no such thing as reincarnation, that scientist is also making a statement of belief, not of fact, because he doesn't know.
		He's making a statement of his particular religious belief, and I find it a very unnourishing and unfulfilling religious belief indeed.
		Such scientists believe in nothing whatsoever apart from the material body.
		So we're in the Area of belief here, and my belief, contrary to the so-called rational view of modern science, is that life is an extremely mysterious process and that we are here to learn and to grow, that it's a precious opportunity, and I think we do come back.
		I think we do live many lifetimes.
		Can't prove it, it's just my belief.
		And it's a belief that has been strengthened by a deep immersion in the study of ancient texts and traditions.
		Now, if it's the case that we come back, then this experience that has just been reported to us may well be a valid one.
		And I can tell you that many, many people around the world today have a sense of an awakening memory.
		There is a sense that the pyramids of Egypt are operating like a beacon, drawing people towards them.
		And imagine this.
		Imagine if you were the survivors, as I spoke before, of a lost civilization with a high wisdom and knowledge, a knowledge that we do not have today, and you believed in reincarnation and not just believed, you knew that it happened, and you knew that you would be reborn 12,000 or more years in the future, and that you knew that part of the deal with reincarnation is that you do not remember past lives, that at the most you get these faint, haunting recollections, but you do not clearly remember.
		Perhaps you would create an alarm clock for yourself.
		Perhaps you would create a beacon that would draw you towards it, and an alarm clock, a symbolic alarm clock, that would awaken those repressed memories of past lives.
		And therefore, I don't think it's necessarily to be scoffed at or entirely an accident that the great pyramids of Egypt have this effect on so many people that they awaken their memories to past lives.
		And perhaps a whole generation is coming back and being awoken.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a fascinating concept, that they are in effect an alarm clock.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes, an alarm clock for the planet, to wake up, to wake up a generation that passed away more than 12,000 years ago and that has come back.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Everything about the ancient Egyptian texts speaks of the recreation of a former world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that we might remember we were here.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, hello, gentlemen.
unidentified		This is Steve from South Dakota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Very sobering and wonderful show, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		And it's a great privilege to speak to you, Mr. Hancock.
		Thank you.
		If there were more humans on this earth who had the sensitivity to our world like Mr. Hancock, I really believe that we'd have a better world.
		I have two questions.
		Number one, I just purchased a tape recently called The Mystery of the Sphinx.
		It was an NBC special hosted by Charles.
		John Weston.
		Yeah, John Anthony West?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		That's about John Anthony West's wonderful work on the Sphinx.
		And John West is an individual to whom we should all pay credit because John was a lone voice crying in the wilderness for 20 years about the implications of the geological weathering patterns on the Sphinx.
		And John single-handedly managed to mobilize the effort and the energy that got that geological study done, which proved that the Sphinx couldn't possibly have been built in 2,500 BC, that the erosion patterns alone demonstrate absolutely objectively that it's thousands of years older than that.
		And yes, so that's the mystery of the Sphinx.
		And it was first shown in 1993.
unidentified		It reinforced the idea that behind the Egyptian sacred science was a complex understanding of number systems and geometry.
unidentified		And I've been musing over the past year or so about the possibilities of a proportional symbolic relationship between the face on Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		I must ask you both to hold on.
		We'll be right back.
		Graham Hancock is my guest on his game for sure.
unidentified		This is Premier Network.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		On this, Somewhere in Time.
		On this, Somewhere in Time.
		On this, Somewhere in Time.
		Now we take you back to the past on Art Bell somewhere in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Graham Hancock.
		If you want to get a beat of Mr. Hancock's intellect, those are the numbers.
		And we will be paying increasing attention phones here.
		I promise.
		I promise.
unidentified		Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell Back now to my guest, Graham Hancock and our caller.
		Caller, you're back on the air again.
		I think you are.
		No, wait a minute.
		As soon as I press a button, you are.
		Let me try this.
		Now I think you're back on the air again.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		Thank you.
		Anyway, first question was that I was wondering about the proportional and symbolic relationships between the face on Mars and the Sphinx in Gisa, and I wanted to know if you had any, if you would reflect any ideas on what you think about this.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you, I'm in regular contact with Richard Hoagland.
		He's a fellow researcher and has become a friend over the last couple of years.
		And I'm a great admirer of Richard's work.
		I think that Richard Hoagland has done incredibly important and courageous work against an enormous amount of opposition in drawing attention to these extraordinary anomalies on the surface of Mars and to certain anomalies on the moon and to anomalies concerning our exploration of those worlds.
		And by FedEx this morning, I received an amazing package of material from Richard Hoagland concerning star alignments over the key landing sites on the moon and at the time of the orbital mission to Mars.
		I think it would be, I can highly recommend, I'm not going to reveal what these computer printouts show me, because this is Richard Hoagland's work and it's his research and I think that Richard himself should talk about this.
		But what I can tell you is that it suggests a stunning series of links, not only in terms of the physical appearance of the monuments, but also in terms of astronomical alignments and in terms of the very secretive exploration of these worlds by our organizations here in the United States, by our scientists.
		A stunning series of alignments and connections have been shown to me in these computer printouts that Richard Hoagland has prepared.
		I am more and more convinced that there is something very, very peculiar going on and that there is indeed a terrestrial connection, as Richard puts it, with these anomalous structures on Mars.
		The material that I'm looking at is quite stunning, and I hope that you'll have Richard on to talk about this at some point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, he wanted me to have you on, almost demanded it, and it's well that I did.
		And I should tell you, since I had you on last, I have Professor Stanley McDaniel on.
		And the professor revealed new studies which are showing that in some cases, the odds of the structures on Mars being anything but being some sort of normal formation, the odds against that are literally now millions.
		Millions.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would agree with him.
		And looking at the star maps that are presently in front of me concerning the locations of those structures and concerning the landing sites for the moon missions as well, I think that we're looking at something quite extraordinary here.
		And I think it's very, very urgent that this work be taken further.
		Everything suggests to me that there is a connection between the structures on Mars and the structures at Giza in Egypt, and that this connection is deep and mysterious, and that there are people today in America, the powers that be, who have financed the space exploration and who have kept large aspects of this secret from the public who are aware of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Graham Hancock.
		Hi.
unidentified		Oh, this is Ken in Cerrillos, California?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Oh, wonderful to get through.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I'd like to compliment Graham on the wonderful way he puts his books together.
		They're very well read and easy to read.
		I appreciate it.
		I had a multiple question on the shafts in the Great Pyramid.
		Yes.
		A couple of things bothered me.
		I was wondering why these shafts were aligned on different stars when the shafts conclude at their bases and angle off, but thereby you can't see up the shafts.
		And I was wondering if these shafts were continued on their normal course, would they possibly align on any chambers that we are unaware of in the Great Pyramid?
		And I had one more question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, hold that one.
		Let's tackle that one.
		It is interesting.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Let's tackle that one first.
		The shafts were never intended as sighting instruments on stars.
		The two shafts from the upper chamber, which cut all the way through the body of the monument and exit on the outside of the monument, the southern shaft of the upper chamber, targeted the lowest of the three stars of Orion's belt in 2500 BC.
		But it was never intended as a sighting instrument by which that star could be seen.
		As a matter of fact, the shaft first goes in horizontally for about eight feet before rising at the 45 degree angle that targets it, like the barrel of a gun, on that star.
		So what is intended here is a symbolic connection with the star, not any kind of fighting instrument.
		And secondly, in terms of hidden chambers, the most inviting shafts are the northern and southern shafts of the lower chamber, which Egyptologists on no good basis like to call the Queen's Chamber.
		The northern and southern shafts of that chamber, neither of them exit on the outside of the monument.
		The northern shaft was partially explored in 1993 until the robot came to a curve in the shaft around which it could not be negotiated.
		Doesn't mean it can't be explored, but it requires further work on modifying the robot to take it round the corner.
unidentified		Might there be a possibility that the shafts might be pointing to something downward rather than just upward?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think you're raising a very good point.
		My impression of all of these features of the Great Pyramid is that they were designed, deliberately designed to stimulate inquiry and to raise questions of exactly the kind that you're asking.
		And the unfortunate fact is that it's only really in the last four or five years that people have started to look seriously into these implications.
		And I want to pay credit here to the vitally important work of my co-author, Robert Boval, who is the discoverer of the Orion correlation, of the correlation between the three belt stars of the constellation of Orion and the three great pyramids.
		And it is also Robert who calculated the alignment of the Southern shaft of the lower chamber with the star Sirius, which was considered to be the celestial counterpart of the goddess Isis.
		Now, it's this southern shaft that terminates, as I mentioned about half an hour ago, in a mysterious door complete with two metal handles at a depth of 200 feet inside the 6 million ton body of the monument, and every indication of a chamber lying beyond that door.
		It may well be that there are many, many chambers within this monument, not just one or two, but dozens, possibly even hundreds.
		There's plenty of room for them, and you could well be right in suggesting that the angles and pointings of the shaft suggest places to look.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Graham, what does one experience when one stands within the pyramid?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, for me, it's above all else, a profound sense of mystery and of the sacred and of an invitation.
		And the invitation says, know me, work me out, work out what I am.
		Don't just stand there awed, but figure me out.
		To me, this is what the pyramid says more than anything else.
		It invites me to use my mind and to try and work out what it is.
		And this is why I feel Egyptologists have done us such a horrible disfavor over the last 150 years by telling us that they have all the answers and that we need not think about this monument.
		It was meant to make us think.
		And through thinking, through stimulating the intellect, it was meant to heighten the immaterial, the spiritual part of ourselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First time caller line, you're on air with Graham Hancock.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Arkbel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in Topanga, California.
		All right.
		I've had a very strange experience with Fingerprints of the Gods.
		Hello, Graham Hancock.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
		Nice to hear you.
		Thanks.
		My cousin attempted to get Fingerprints of the Gods for me at Christmastime.
		She lives in Louisiana.
		She went into the bookstore and ordered it.
		She waited four months.
		At the end of the four months, the manager looked her in the eye and said, this book is banned in the United States.
		You have to go to Canada to get it.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Good God.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I thought you'd want to know that.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Good God.
unidentified		We went out the next day and bought it and disproved them.
		Yes.
		Do you know whether or not that book is banned by the Catholic Church?
		Because I know the Catholic Church is very strong in Louisiana.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I'm not aware of any formal ban on the books anywhere.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		The way that the knowledge filter works in our society is to generally discourage people in one way or another, sometimes by making books difficult to get from reading things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She may have run into a personal ban.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		You may have run into a personal ban.
unidentified		There's a personal bookstore ban.
		She has informed me.
		It's quite comfortable.
		Yeah, there's a new bookstore in town, and she can now get your books.
		You'll be pleased to know.
		Good.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad.
unidentified		But I thought you'd want to know there's book police out there.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there definitely are book police out there.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		There's no doubt about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, man.
		Thank you, and I'm glad it's not a fully...
		Yeah.
		Wildcard Line, you're on there with Graham Hancock.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, all right.
		Graham, hi.
		I have a question here.
		If Moses was inducted into all of the rites and the knowledge of ancient Egypt, which you believe is incredibly superior, it sounds like, why do you think he left all of that and decided to go off and follow what he said at the time was the one true God?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that all of these ancient Egyptian initiates believed in only one true God.
		And they saw the other gods, the reference, the whole concept of multiple gods in the ancient Egyptian system is entirely symbolic.
		And if you get down to the basis of the ancient Egyptian scriptures, you'll find that there is a belief in one and one only self-created deity, Atum, the God, the Genesis figure, who creates himself out of nothingness, out of the primordial ocean, and who then creates all life.
		And all the other gods are simply manifestations of him.
		So there's no conflict within Egyptian religion, with the notion of one God.
		Secondly, I think that Moses had a specific mission which has actually been incredibly successful, which was to spread into another culture the germ of the ancient Egyptian idea, to carry that off and lead to its dissemination around the world.
		And through Judaism and through Christianity, an offshoot of Judaism, I don't think it's an accident that in Christianity we see many features of the ancient Egyptian religion.
		The figure of Christ, I'm sorry if this is going to offend fundamentalist Christians, but the figure of Christ is an Ossyrian figure, the once and future king, the king who is sacrificed, the God, the son of a God, who is sacrificed and who will return, who will come again.
		This is precisely the symbolism of Osiris.
		And I think that what Moses was doing was spreading this concept, this idea, into another culture, and through that culture it is tilted down and around the world in many different ways.
		But I think it all goes back to a common source.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Graham, you likened the pyramid, the Sphinx, to an alarm clock.
		You talked of reincarnation and said that if you knew that you were going to be reincarnated, you would put something there to remind yourself, to an alarm clock, to remind you.
unidentified		Yes, to wake yourself up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that modern man is now hearing that alarm going off, or do you think that we have reached over and we hit the snooze button?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I think we've been asleep for at least the last 2,000 years.
		But I do think that modern man, large numbers of people around the world, are hearing that alarm clock.
		And that's why I feel that we are poised at a crossroads in the story of mankind.
		And that if we survive this period, then future generations will look back on Our time, the time we're living through now, as a time of enormous creativity and a time of renaissance, of rebirth of the human soul, I think that there is an incredible awakening taking place all around the world.
		The only thing that I would urge people to realize who sense this awakening in themselves is to know that they must do the work.
		Do not expect initiation, enlightenment, to be handed to you on the plate in some sort of second-rate New Age text.
		It is necessary to immerse yourself deeply in ancient traditions.
		People must be prepared to do the work.
		When they sense this awakening within themselves, they must also be prepared to work their minds and not expect to receive it handed to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Graham, many modern prophets, many, and I never know what to think of them, but I interview many of them, predict the possibility of catastrophic events.
		Catastrophic events.
		Many of them will say these don't have to happen.
		Others have said it is sealed.
		It's going to happen.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think it's sealed, but I think it's possible.
		I went into the whole issue of cataclysms in depth in my book, Fingerprints of the Gods, and I reported many of the ancient traditions, including those of the Maya, which speak of the coming of a terrible cataclysm.
		But what all of these ancient traditions, every single ancient tradition in the world that speaks of a former cataclysm and of the destruction of a great antediluvian civilization, all these traditions indicate that we ourselves, mankind ourselves, played a role in bringing that cataclysm down on our heads.
		And the suggestion is very strongly the case that if a future cataclysm will come, we ourselves will be instrumental in bringing it about.
		And therefore, the possibility remains that we can change and transform our destiny and that we need not confront a cataclysm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, I'm glad I got through.
unidentified		I'm Kay from Janesville, Wisconsin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Glad to have you.
unidentified		Thanks.
		I have a couple of questions.
		Well, actually, one.
		It's kind of a two-parter, but it's all related.
		You mentioned earlier that you were afraid of the individuals that were going to be getting involved in this next, I don't know, if you want to call it an excavation or digging or whatever.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the expedition that is taking place at the Sphinx at the moment and the plans for a similar expedition to be mounted inside the Great Pyramid for the opening of the door inside that pyramid.
		Yes, I'm concerned about the conditions that surround these projects, about the secrecy, about the hints of heavyweight commercialization and about the possibility of a hidden agenda.
		And I'm concerned that objects and artifacts of enormous significance to mankind under these circumstances could be removed from those chambers and that other artifacts could be replaced within them and that we may never get to the truth as a result of this.
unidentified		Have you ever read the book The Celestine Prophecies?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have read The Celestine Prophecies.
unidentified		Okay, are you kind of thinking something on that order where the government or whoever the powers it may be would be interested in hiding or spiriting away, so to speak, any information that might be enlightening to people, that might be a threat to people?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I think there are definitely people who have an interest in hiding the potentially explosive discoveries that could be made at the Great Pyramids and the Great Sphinx, at hiding them, at keeping them from the rest of the world, of not allowing that information to come out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would say saying they would have an interest in that would be insufficient.
		They would have to do it.
		They would be compelled to do it.
		There would be no choice.
		It would bring everything around their heads down.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes, absolutely.
		There is a huge vested interest in the current system, and discoveries of this nature would change everything.
		And indeed, there are many who would wish such discoveries never to be made.
		And that's why I'm concerned, I repeat, about the secretiveness surrounding the project, because it makes it possible for discoveries to be made and for those important discoveries to be hidden away again and never made public, and for more sanitized and politically correct objects to be placed in the chambers instead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Respond to the simple question before we get to the top of the hour.
		If the Egyptians, Graham, knew so much, why did their civilization fail?
		Why were they conquered by lesser nations?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is the question, is were they ever really conquered?
		Again and again, Egypt was invaded.
		If you go back through Egyptian history, the first thing to note about Egypt is that this was not a militaristic society.
		They were capable of defending themselves when they had to, but fundamentally this was a society that was opposed to military adventures and which concentrated on cultivating the spiritual essence of man.
		And that's why when the Greek historian Herodotus visited Egypt in the 5th century BC, towards the end of the story of Egyptian civilization, he was still able to describe it as the happiest, the most serene, and the most beautiful civilization that he had ever encountered.
		These were not people who liked to go around killing other people.
		Now, Egypt, during its long history, was invaded on a number of occasions.
		The earliest major invasion was by a people known as the Hyksos, who occupied Egypt for several hundred years.
		And during this period of the Hyksos occupation, it appeared that Egyptian civilization had entirely submerged and vanished.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Graham.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		And yet it hadn't.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It resurfaced in full flower when the Hyksos were driven out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Grant, we've got to hold it there.
		Hold it, Grant.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		We've got to go.
		Relax.
		We'll be right back to you.
		Graham Hancock is my guest.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Toast to Toast AM.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast A.M. from July 11th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reincarnation?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if it is so, maybe there'll be more time in your next life, but there's sure ain't much in this one, is there?
unidentified		Yeah!
		Thank you.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 11th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music My guest is Graham Hancock, author of The Sign and the Seal, Fingerprints of the Gods, The Message of the Sphinx.
		And here he is once again.
		Graham, we have some stations that join at this hour.
		And you really laid one on us in the first half hour, and I want you to repeat that.
		You've got new information about the chambers below the Sphinx.
		If you wouldn't mind, one more time, it's a leak that somebody...
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		And they're looking for chambers under the Sphinx.
		Now, this team, as I've outlined earlier on, is operating under conditions of total secrecy.
		And I am deeply disturbed about the nature of this project.
		And my colleague Robert Boval is as well, and so are many, many others of us who are working in this field.
		And we think we ourselves are very anxious to have the research done and to find out in the proper manner what is in these chambers under the Sphinx and in the hidden chamber that we know now exists inside the Great Pyramid.
		But we also feel that this work is presently not being done properly in the right manner and that it is obnoxious and wrong and extremely worrying that there is no public oversight of the research that is taking place.
		And we're therefore calling for these projects to be stopped, for the whole matter to be reviewed very, very, very carefully, and then for projects to be started again, but under proper circumstances with proper public oversight, no secrecy, no hidden agenda, and no commercialization.
		And with that said, what I'll tell you is that not everybody working on the project at the Sphinx appear to be happy with the conditions of secrecy surrounding it either.
		And we have had a leak from one of those individuals, leaked information, and what they tell us, what we were informed of, is that this remote sensing equipment, the ground penetrating radar equipment that they're using, and other remote sensors have detected nine separate chambers deep in the bedrock beneath the Sphinx, and that all of these chambers appear to contain metallic objects.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll call this leak Deep Chamber.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you expect to be able to get more information from this person?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		We are actively pursuing every avenue on this matter, and we are also calling on every concerned individual to apply pressure to get these current projects stopped.
		Because I repeat, the grave danger under these circumstances is that the public may never learn what is in these chambers.
		It's perfectly possible with all this secrecy for objects to be removed from those chambers and for nobody to be told what is happening.
		And this is not the right condition for proper scientific research to occur in.
		So we think the most important thing is for pressure to be put on the Egyptian authorities to stop these projects.
		I spent two hours today with the Egyptian ambassador to Washington presenting him with our dossier of information on this.
		And you mentioned, Art, I think earlier on, that perhaps a good show in the United States to investigate this matter, a powerful show with the resources to do the job, would be something like 60 Minutes.
		You betcha.
		And because the concentration of force is the most effective way to work, I would urge anybody who's concerned about this matter and would like to get this problem investigated to write a letter to 60 Minutes.
		If they get enough letters from enough people, even they will wake up and pay attention.
		Our media have a tendency to tamely follow the orthodox Egyptological line, but they also have a responsibility to listen to the voice of the public.
		And if enough members of the public write to 60 Minutes and demand that they investigate what is going on at Giza to explore the issue of this license that has been granted to a team from the United States, a team that includes geologists from Florida State University, to explore the conditions under which this license has been granted, to put the team members and the Egyptian authorities under the spotlight, then I think the veil of secrecy may begin to be lifted.
		And the whole background to this whole extraordinary story that is unfolding at Giza is contained in our book, The Message of the Sphinx, that I've co-authored with Robert Boval.
		For anybody looking for background information on that, and if 60 Minutes or anybody else wants further specific information, they can always contact either myself or Robert Boval through our publishers who are Crown publishers in New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Either that, Graham, or the forces that are at work are so powerful that there really is no hope.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		60 Minutes or anybody else?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, I believe passionately that there is hope, and that the hope lies in a generalized human awakening and an awakening Of the ancient system of knowledge, which is a system of spiritual enlightenment.
		Just before the break, you were asking me how it was that Egypt, for all its wisdom, could have been destroyed.
		And I started to talk about the possibility that, in a sense, it never was destroyed.
		There were several periods in Egyptian history when that country was overtaken by military invaders.
		Sometimes the light of Egypt would seem to go out, sometimes for as long as 200 or 300 years, and then miraculously it would come back on again when the invaders were driven out.
		There was some secret academy, a secret group of initiates passing down the knowledge behind the scenes.
		They called them the followers of Horus in the ancient Egyptian tradition.
		And they kept this knowledge alive through thousands of years, through the ups and downs of the political misfortunes that any country will suffer.
		And frequently, when Egypt was invaded, as it was by the Greeks, instead of, although the Greeks physically colonized Egypt, Egypt mentally colonized the Greeks.
		And the whole of Greek culture became imbued with Egyptian ideas.
		And thus, through the Greeks, Egyptian ideas spread out around the world.
		And again, in a later time, although the Romans physically crushed and destroyed Egypt, nevertheless, the light of Egypt did not go out.
		And we're convinced that the secret wisdom, the transformatory wisdom of Egypt passed on down through the ages in such wonderful concepts that are expressed in, for example, the Hermetic texts, which, and many people may not be aware that we owe the whole renaissance in the 15th and 16th century to the rediscovery of these Hermetic texts, which are deeply imbued with Egyptian wisdom.
		So I think that the light of Egyptian wisdom is still alive in the world.
		It's still touching people today.
		People are waking up to this extraordinary system of ideas all around the world.
		And if enough of us get together and focus our minds and concentrate on the good enough and on what is good and what is positive and what is worthwhile in mankind, then the dark forces in society will not prevail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it may be that time again.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Graham.
		Hi in art, and I thank you so much for the show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in St. Charles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		St. Charles.
unidentified		Yeah, Missouri.
		I'm listening to you, Graham.
		I'm thinking of what Egypt was, we were told Egypt was like.
		I'm seeing slavery.
		I'm seeing Pharaoh.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Banish those images from your mind.
unidentified		And I'm also seeing our dollar with the pyramid.
unidentified		I don't know if it still has a pyramid.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It does still have a pyramid on it.
unidentified		I'm still seeing slavery.
unidentified		I'm still seeing, you know, even in our society.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		There is no evidence of slavery in Egypt.
		There were one or two abherent pharaohs who may have been involved in a small-scale manner in slavery, but the notion that Egypt was a society that enslaved others is totally false.
		There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever of slavery in Old Kingdom Egypt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's too many movies.
unidentified		It's too many movies.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		You're looking at, this is the nonsensical propaganda of Hollywood, that we keep seeing these images of the pyramids being built by slaves.
		Anybody who has studied the pyramids will tell you it's impossible.
		This was not done by slaves.
unidentified		One more question?
		Yes.
		I don't have the name right, but it was around the first century Apollonus.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Apollonius?
unidentified		It's like Apollo.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Apollonius of Rhodes.
unidentified		Very wise, perhaps the Christ figure changed after Constantine got his hands on it?
		Yes.
		You've heard of this person?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know that Constantine and the jack-booted involvement of the Roman Empire in Christianity was the worst thing that ever happened to this otherwise beautiful religion.
unidentified		And there was this one man that people remembered, but not Christ.
		They didn't remember Christ, but they really did remember him.
		He really is in history, Apollinist.
		I don't know if it's a good thing.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		That does not ring a bell with me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		But I just want to, I really would like to strongly stress to you that if you immerse yourself, as I have done, in the ancient Egyptian texts themselves, and they're all available in translation today, we can read all of the Egyptian books of the dead, the pyramid texts, these wonderful, the book of what is in the duat.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		If you study their scriptures and ideas and look closely at their monuments, you will realize that this was a society that was filled through and through with beauty and truth and a deep and abiding understanding of the mystery of existence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Yeah.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, where are you?
unidentified		Indiana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, go ahead.
unidentified		Did you ever see inside any of the pyramids the carvings of a pharaoh inside of a spaceship working the controls of a spaceship?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		There are no carvings or inscriptions in any of the three great pyramids of Egypt.
		The only place where I have seen carvings which look a bit like somebody operating some kind of technological device, may or may not be a spaceship, could be a telescope, could be any kind of device,
		but it certainly doesn't fit with the historical picture, is in Central America, notably in Mexico and in the Olmec area of Mexico and in the Maya, some of the Maya monuments such as Palenque and in the Olmec area along from La Venta through Villa Hermosa in Mexico.
		You can find artifacts, carvings, very old, from the oldest strata that do appear to be people manipulating some kind of technical device.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let me follow up.
		Mr. Hancock has set my mind on fire with his latest assertion of the pyramids being some sort of spiritual alarm clock.
		Please ask him about the Mayans and their pyramids.
		Could they be of the same design?
		Ever since I've been a child, I was fascinated by pyramids, but when I learned about the Mayan culture and civilization, I became obsessed reading Everything I could, trying to understand about them so it captures my imagination.
		Could these be of the same genre?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I think they are of the same genre.
		I go into this issue in depth in my previous book, Fingerprints of the Gods, which is available in paperback recently, by the way.
		In the Message of the Sphinx, we concentrate entirely on the mystery of Egypt and of the Great Sphinx and the pyramids and the spiritual implications of these monuments.
		But in Fingerprints of the Gods, I did comparisons around the world between many ancient civilizations, and I looked very closely at the comparisons between the pyramids of Egypt and the pyramids of Mexico.
		And yes, there is undoubtedly, undoubtedly, a link and a connection between these monuments.
		And the connection, in my view, is not a direct influence of Egypt on Mexico or of Mexico on Egypt, but it's an inherited common influence, a remote and ancient influence that touched both of those places.
		And for me, it's particularly significant that the three most mysterious pyramids in Mexico, which are the pyramids of Teotihuacan, the pyramid of the moon, the pyramid of the sun, and the smaller pyramid of Cuesal Corato, which run alongside the so-called Way of the Dead in the city of Teotihuacan, just north of Mexico City.
		Teotihuacan is a very mysterious place.
		But these pyramids have an enormous amount in common with the three great pyramids of Giza.
		And I went into that in depth in Fingerprints of the Gods.
		But one thing that they have in common, very important, is what Teotihuacan actually means.
		It means the place where men became gods.
		That there is an ancient tradition attaching to these extraordinary Mexican pyramids, which suggests that they were in some way involved in the spiritualization of mankind, in the recognition or the realization of the immortal part of our nature.
		That is precisely, precisely what the three great pyramids of Giza in Egypt were about.
		They were part, we are convinced, of an ancient spiritual science of immortality to awaken the immortal part of ourselves.
		And yes, to awaken the memory of a previous life.
		This is entirely possible in my case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, separate artifacts that in fact enhance the totality of the evidence, period.
		Yes, definitely.
		All right.
		It is said that at one time the surfaces of the Great Pyramid were covered with smooth, polished stone with a mirror-like finish.
		You discovered the quarry, which was the source of the stone, and what happened to the stones.
		Also, what is the relationship between the capstone mentioned in the Bible and the capstone of the Great Pyramid?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, to answer the first question first, yes, all three of the Great Pyramids, it is known for sure, were once completely encased in polished white limestone.
		And from the very few surviving casing blocks, we are able to say a number of things about this limestone casing.
		Firstly, it was an extraordinary technological feat.
		There were 22 acres of limestone facing stones on the sides of the Great Pyramid.
		Secondly, these stones had an average weight of 16 tons each.
		Thirdly, they were lined up to each other with such precision that in the few remaining casing stones, it is impossible to slip even a sheet of paper, of thin paper, into the joints.
		The joints are so closely aligned.
		And the great Egyptologist William Plinders Petrie, at the turn of the century, likened the precision of the casing blocks to modern opticians' work, to quote him, on a scale of acres.
		They were a remarkable technological feat.
		Now, we know that they covered the entire pyramids from earlier travelers' tales.
		Many of the Arabs, the Arab commentators, wrote about how the pyramids shone brilliantly in the sun with this polished white casing.
		What we're now seeing is this substructure that lies underneath the casing.
		But there was an enormous earthquake hit the city of Cairo in 1301.
		And it is this earthquake that shook loose the majority of the facing stones.
		And unfortunately, those facing stones were then, the remainder, large part of the remainder, were then quarried off the pyramids by the local population and used in the construction of large parts of Cairo.
		As to the source of the stone, it's the Makatim Hills about 20 miles away to the east of Giza across the River Nile.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it is known.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the capstone.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		The missing capstone of the Great Pyramid is an extremely interesting matter.
		We cannot be certain that it was ever in place.
		It is possible that the Great Pyramid never did have a capstone.
		I personally think it probably did have a capstone.
		But since it has been missing since recorded history began, we cannot be absolutely certain of this.
		I've climbed the Great Pyramid three times, and the top of the Great Pyramid today forms a perfect square, roughly 20 feet along each side, with half an additional course of masonry.
		What's happened is that masonry has been knocked off the top and rolled down over the centuries.
		There is enormous significance in Egyptian tradition attached to the pyramidion, the capstone, the top of a pyramid.
		It was called, as I said earlier, the Benben.
		It was the ultimate symbol of the immortality of the soul.
		And my colleague Robert Bavar has argued in his earlier book, The Orion Mystery, that one possibility for what may be hidden inside one of the concealed chambers in the Great Pyramid is indeed this missing capstone, that it was taken off by the high priest at a certain point and placed inside the pyramid.
unidentified		Boy, you'd have to wonder what would happen if they put it back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had the great honor, Graham, before his death, of extensively interviewing Robert Monroe.
		And there are many who would say that his work is the modern equivalent of what was once lost and what you have talked of tonight.
		So we're at the bottom of the hour, rather.
		we've got 30 minutes to go with you.
		But I want you to answer that when you come back, if you would.
		Truly a great man, Robert Monroe, and the Monroe Institute.
		We've talked of lives that go on, people who come back again and again and again.
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		Premier Network Presents, Art Bell, Subware Inside.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AF from July 11th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And my guest is Graham Hancock, about to leave the U.S. Probably the last time you're going to hear from Graham in this country for a while.
		We'll find out about that in a moment.
		Also, I've got the address and fax number for CBS's 60 minutes.
		Stand by.
unidentified		Stand by.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 11th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to Graham Hancock.
		Graham, there you go.
		That's a point of pressure.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		That's great.
		Yeah, and if people put pressure on 60 Minutes, write to them and urge them to investigate what is happening at Giza concerning this license that has been granted under bizarre conditions for the excavations of the Sphinx.
		And if 60 Minutes want further information, definitely the best way is for them to get in touch with me through my publishers who are Crown Publishers of New York, and we'll take it from there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Good enough.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Mr. Bell, Mr. Hancock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, dear lady?
unidentified		Sayetteville, Tennessee.
		All right.
		A few years ago, they had an exhibit of Ramses II that came to Jacksonville, Florida, and I was living there.
		And when I heard that it was coming there, I felt so strange.
		I felt like I had known this man or whatever he was before, never heard of him before or since.
		And after the exhibit left town, I quit feeling that way.
		I don't know.
		I just had this strange feeling like I had lived in that time.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Maybe you had.
		So many of us today are getting this sense of an awakening, and it is powerfully connected to ancient Egypt.
		And all the pharaohs of Egypt, and Ramesses II was no exception, were high initiates in an extraordinary wisdom tradition.
		And that wisdom tradition, above all else, sought the immortality of the soul and emphasized rebirth and reincarnation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, Graham, maybe it's not some sort of new age craziness like the hula hoop racing across the globe, but some sort of mass memory.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Mass awakening.
		Mass awakening.
		One thing I really would caution people against, however, is imagining that any of this is easy.
		And one of the problems I have with the so-called New Age stuff is that it tends to suggest that there is a quick and easy route to enlightenment.
		There isn't.
		We all have to do the work.
		Life is an initiatory journey.
		And we cannot expect to achieve that initiation just easily at the snap of a finger, by reading some lightweight text.
		It's a matter everybody in their personal lives has to expect to work.
		Don't expect it to come easily.
		And it's a matter of how we relate to the world, how we relate to people around us, what we do with our minds and with this precious opportunity that we've been given on this planet to learn and to grow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		Hello, Graham.
		Hi.
		Back in the early 80s, I used to watch this television.
		Can I give the name?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		San Diego.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Television preacher, back in the early 80s, I used to watch a television preacher called Dr. Eugene Scott.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		And he used to sit on the air for hours and read from this book called, I think it was called The Secrets of the Great Pyramid.
		And a book which purported that the passages in the Great Pyramid were sort of like a calendar that sort of pre-recorded modern history.
		Could you expound on that?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm suspicious of the notion which has been expressed in some rather badly researched in my view that specific modern events such as, for example, the Great Depression and other events in the 20th century have in some way been prefigured by the angles of certain passages inside the Great Pyramid.
		I don't think the geniuses who created the Great Pyramid, the spiritual geniuses who created that, were particularly interested in predicting the ups and downs of the modern economy.
		I think that their focus was spiritual.
		I think there is a sense in which the Great Pyramid is a prophetic device and in which it is bringing to a focus today the energies of millions of people around the world.
		And I think that it was always designed to do that.
		But no, I don't think that it specifically predicts particular events.
		I think that, as a matter of fact, I don't think that any destiny is carved in stone.
		I think we make our own destiny as we go along, and we always confront crossroads, and we always have to make choices.
		And the fundamental choice in the world today is the choice between good and evil.
		And all the ancient texts say that evil exists in the world, and that God could not prevent evil from existing in the world, but that mankind was created with the power of choice, that we have the power to choose between good and evil.
		We have the power to choose the destiny that will confront us.
		And for that reason, I reject the notion that the Great Pyramid is specifically prophetic of particular events in our century.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Regarding current social behavior, Graham, my hopes are not met by my observation of current reality.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		We live in dark times.
		We live in dark times and a dark night of the soul.
		And terrible forces are at loose in the world today, which are leading mankind on the path of destruction.
		And too many people are prepared to go along with this and to make excuses for cruel and vicious behavior towards others and to turn a blind eye to cruelty and unkindness and wickedness in the world.
		And this is a terrible mistake that we are making.
		One thing that the ancient Egyptian texts make absolutely clear is that in the life beyond death there is a reckoning and that we will confront with absolute clarity and truth the consequences of our own actions and also of what we failed to do during life.
		And that's why I think it's so important for everybody to wake up to the mystery of life and to realize that this life is an opportunity that we've been given to prepare and not to waste it away and not to allow the darkness that is engulfing the world to continue to spread.
		We can resist it.
		We can oppose it.
		And on what we do about this, we will ourselves be held accountable in the final reckoning.
		That I am sure of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am too.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Thank you very, very much.
		My name is David.
		I'm in Eugene, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, David.
unidentified		And I must say, in a world full of people who use fear to motivate, you are a true soldier because you use courage and knowledge to guide us.
		And I appreciate that.
		Thank you.
		And for Graham, I've been to the pyramids in Chichen, Itsa.
		And I was about 15.
		That was 10 years ago.
		And my father took me and my sister.
		And regardless of how they were built or what their tolerances between stones are, you have to realize that it took a great passion from a great many people to want to build these things and want to put them there for some reason.
		And all I can say is that you have to look forward and you have to realize that there is a reason for their knowledge.
		Let me see.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		No, you're absolutely correct.
		When you go to these monuments with an open mind, as you clearly did, it becomes immediately apparent that you are looking at works of transcendent skill and beauty and spiritual power.
		The principal pyramid at Chichen Itza, which is a steppe pyramid, and it stands in the middle of the great grassy area in the center of Chichen Itza, is called the pyramid or the temple of Kukul Khan.
		And Kukul Khan was the Mayan name for the civilizing deity Quetzalcoatl, who's a very similar figure to the ancient Egyptian god Osiris, a god of resurrection and rebirth.
		And that pyramid of Quetzalcoatl at Chichen Itza is so perfectly situated in relation to the rising of the sun, so perfectly designed in its positioning on the earth, that on the spring equinox, an amazing effect is observed on the northern staircase.
		For three hours and 22 minutes exactly, an illusion of light and shadow creates the figure of a gigantic fettered serpent, and that was the emblem of Quetzalcoatl, undulating up and down that staircase.
		Now, to position the monument so precisely in relation to the rising of the sun on that particular day requires an amazing geodetic and astronomical knowledge, and yet this is just totally overlooked by our Orthodox scholars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have this horrible feeling, Graham, that when we, and if we ever do learn the secrets held within the Sphinx, within the pyramids, we're going to discover that we've been doing it all the wrong way.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure you're right, Art.
		I really completely agree with you on this.
		I think we've been doing it all the wrong way for 2,000 years.
		I think that we've gone down a sidetrack in the evolution of our consciousness.
		We've been held back.
		We've been delayed.
		We've been prevented by dark forces from moving along.
		And those dark forces are within ourselves.
		And it's up to us to overcome them.
		We cannot hand over responsibility for this to any external force.
		It is up to us, ourselves, to realize the potential for beauty and truth that lies within us.
		And if we do not realize that potential, then we alone are responsible for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First-time caller line, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning to both of you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, Pray tell?
unidentified		I am in Portland, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I had a question for Mr. Hancock, and that is, is my now 10-year-old son will be traveling with his grandmother in November of 97 with John Anthony West.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wonderful.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		They're going to go to Egypt with John?
unidentified		Yes.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, they'll have a marvelous journey because John has the deepest and most profound and beautiful knowledge of the mysteries of ancient Egypt.
unidentified		Yes, and I've seen his video on his theories of that area as well.
		But my question to you was, I'm looking for information that my son, who is now 10, who will then be 12, that he can look at and gather knowledge about that is a truer sense of the history of Egypt.
		Because after listening to you and listening to my grandmother, your textbook is not necessarily what the history of Egypt is about.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		What you read in textbooks is definitely not what the history of Egypt is about.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		The standard Egyptological textbooks are extremely misleading and they falsify the story of this wonderful civilization.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		And I'm really glad I had the opportunity to get through because I had a question about some of your books and wondering how technical are they?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, I find I give many talks, public talks, at bookshops and at conferences.
		And I find that many young people attend those talks.
		And I've frequently got through to people under 10 years of age.
		And the new book, The Message of the Sphinx, does contain technical information concerning astronomy, but it's all backed up with very, very clear diagrams which help the more difficult ideas to be understood.
		And I would say, for all of us, the sooner we start doing the work, the better.
		As I've always said, never expect it to be easy.
		And the younger we start on the journey of discovery, the better.
		Definitely, I'm not trying to sell my books on the air, but unfortunately, there are very few books around which look at Egypt from what I think is the true point of view.
		And I would urge your son to have a look at the Message of the Sphinx.
		Have a look at Fingerprints of the Gods.
		Have a look also at the Orion Mystery.
unidentified		The Orion Mystery, that was the other one I couldn't remember the name of.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		That's Robert Boval's previous book.
		And then he and I, and my previous book was Fingerprints of the Gods.
		And both of these books deal extensively with Egypt.
		And then we got together to write the Message of the Sphinx.
		Now, I feel it's my responsibility as an author to write books that are readable.
		Above all else, a book has to be read.
		And I try to tell a story which is a readable story and which will not bore the reader.
		But at the same time, to convey truthful and solid information.
		And that's why I always include footnotes in my book.
		But don't be put off by that.
		The information is all there, and I think it is accessible to young people.
unidentified		Well, that's great.
unidentified		We also homeschool, so it's going to be a great adventure to have a year and a half to work on the information together.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		That's great.
		That's the way to do it.
		And I'm glad you put the emphasis on the word work because we all have to put our minds into gear on this.
unidentified		That's right.
		Exercise that muscle of the time.
		Yeah, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Dear, and good luck to you.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, take care.
		Time is short.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
unidentified		Yeah, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I'm calling from San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I've got two questions for Graham.
unidentified		The first question I have is that how do you think the Islamic fundamentalists of Egypt will react if they find out what's going on at Giza, especially with the discoveries that could be discovered there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that is a good question.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I think that there is this curious political background to what is happening in Egypt, which needs to be taken very carefully into account.
		There is, unfortunately, in extremist Islam, a tendency to believe that anything which precedes the Quran is knowledge that should not be known.
		There's a story concerning the burning of the great library at Alexandria in Egypt, which I suspect is probably not a true story because the first Muslims were great learners and great guardians of knowledge.
		But nevertheless, for what it's worth, I'll tell you the story.
		That when the Muslims from Saudi Arabia invaded Egypt shortly after the time of the Prophet Muhammad, they found this amazing library containing reputedly a million scrolls, all the collected knowledge of the ancient world.
		And they sent message back to the Caliph Umar in Iraq, and they asked him, what are we to do with this library?
		And his reply was the following.
		If it contains material which is contradictory to the Quran, then it is against God, so burn it.
		And if it contains material which is in the Quran, then it is superfluous, so burn it.
		And as a result, the Great Library of Alexandria was burned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm so afraid, Graham, that the knowledge contained in the chambers of the Sphinx, the pyramids, when it is finally opened, will receive a similar order.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but I'm afraid, I want to stress very strongly that I don't think the threat to this knowledge comes from today from Islamic fundamentalists.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It comes from the powerful, wealthy, and secretive groups that are controlling research over that site at the moment for their own personal agendas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My friend, listen, we're out of time.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sorry to hear that, but I do want to stress that we can put a stop to this bad project that is taking place at Giza, and a good one can replace it.
		We don't need to fear the fundamentalists.
		We need to fear the forces in our own society.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Graham, where do you go from here?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I'm going I'm still traveling.
		I'm going from here to South Africa, where I'll be spending a week.
		Fingerprints of the gods and the message of the Sphinx have recently been published there.
		And then finally, I'm going on to Australia for a week, and I get back to England on the 27th of July.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your entire body is going to be a mess for the next year.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		After revolving around the planet in opposite directions twice within a month.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Graham, my friend, it has been a pleasure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when you next grace these shores, we want you back.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I look forward very much to talking to you, Ard.
		I think your show is a great forum for ideas and discussion and awakening the good spirit in people all around the world.
		And that's just what I'd like to close on, that there's so much goodness in people, and it's in all of us.
		And all we need to do is to reach for it and make it strong, and we can send the darkness away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Graham.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wish you a safe journey.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
unidentified		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, and take care, my friend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Graham Hancock, author of Fingerprints of the Gods, The Sign and the Seal, The Message of the Sphinx.
unidentified		The trip back in time continues.
		With Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Premier Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know how you follow that.
		I have no idea how you follow that.
		So we will do it with open lines.
unidentified		Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues, courtesy of Premier Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music Now, during the time that I was on the air, the following cleared the wire.
		Dear Ark, get a load of this.
		The news report, between your program segments, just reported a story of a cat that was choking on its own collar, went to the phone, hit the button for speed dialing 911.
		The emergency operators got a recording of a cat choking and squealing over the phone.
		Paramedics arrived and saved the cat's life.
		They played the tape of the cat on the news, and it was horrific and heart-wrenching.
		You could almost hear the cat saying, I'm choking.
		That's incredible.
		That's from Fritz in Petaluma, California.
		Absolutely amazing story.
		Amazing.
		I'm going to repeat one more time for those of you who would like to get involved in the tragedy occurring at Giza.
		If you would like it investigated, urge 60 minutes to get hold of Graham Hancock.
		Their fax number in New York is area code 212-975-0322.
		212-975-0322.
		We're trying to get the latest coordinates on the hurricane.
		Last I heard it was due to come on shore in a matter now of hours.
		It is weakened.
		Last I heard 80 mile-an-hour winds.
		That may have changed.
		Due to come on shore in the morning, this morning.
		Between Myrtle Beach and Charleston, possibly.
		Any of that is subject to change.
		We don't know.
		If you're in the affected areas, watch your butt.
		AIDS researchers have ended a global conference holding out hope that the very powerful new drug treatments we now have might offer a cure for the deadly disease that has infected now 28 million people.
		They have actually been able to drive the virus to zero, to the undetectable range.
		It is an expensive process, perhaps not for Americans, at about $15,000 per year.
		For the rest of the world, it is.
		It brings very, very serious questions to mind about what we can and should do and the morality of withholding because of the cost of treatment.
		A big horrible debate in Congress yesterday almost seems like part of the quickening.
		Barney Frank, homosexual Barney Frank, a representative Democrat in a big fight with Representative Steve Larden.
		All about marriage of homosexuals gays.
		And it was not a pretty thing to watch.
		There's going to be a vote in Congress today.
		We'll see how it turns out.
		Then there was a brawl.
		What appeared to be a racial brawl.
		More quickening news as far as I'm concerned.
		After the fight at Madison Square Garden in New York.
unidentified		Rick Bow declared the winner.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But punch after punch after punch below the belt, the whole thing then erupting at the end of the fight into a sort of a racial brawl in the audience.
		It was horrible.
		Horrible.
		Not to me an indication that anybody should be opening any of the chambers below the Sphinx just yet.
		My inclination, I've got a lot of material here.
		My inclination is to just open the phone lines, let you guys have it.
unidentified		I've got a...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got a fax here from the co-founder of the Michigan Militia Corps.
		And I'm tempted to read it, except that it'll just lead to more quickening.
		I'll probably read it.
		But right now, what I think I'm going to do is go to the lines.
unidentified		Listen to you folks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So here we go.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Well, good morning.
unidentified		I'm in Lubbock, Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lubbock, Texas.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good.
unidentified		In the Bible, it says, in my father's house are many mansions.
		And if it weren't so, I would have told you.
		I think everything is set up by God Almighty.
		He probably has many people bigger than we are to move stones around or anything he wants done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a good guess.
unidentified		We have quite underestimated God because we've been glorified in ourselves so much that we haven't reached out to bigger things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
		We may have...
		Thank you.
		As I told Graham, I have this horrible feeling that we've been going, when we open all this, if we do, we're going to find out that we've been 90 degrees from whatever path is described in those chambers.
		I guess we'll find out, won't we?
		God, what a fascinating three hours.
		It's going to be a while before I absorb all of that.
		I'm going to have to sit down and re-listen to all of that myself.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yeah, hi.
		Good evening, Art.
		Good evening.
		I wanted to say something about the chambers underneath the Sphinx.
		I heard from some sources that if you are not the chosen people that are meant to find the right room underneath the Sphinx that has ancient artifacts of highly technological, advanced equipment, that's what I've heard.
		Now, I've also heard that there's the tunnel underneath the Great Pyramid used to be open to tourists and to visitors.
		And many, many people would go down there and what they would think would manifest, whether it would actually manifest to everyone or to them.
		And several people got ill and several people, from what I understand, have died from it.
		And then they since closed it off.
		Now, I wanted to address that when Graham was on, but I know he's off now.
		I wonder if in the future he might be able to respond to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can be sure that when, as I said, he returns to these shores, he will be here again, sir.
unidentified		Oh, fantastic, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Amazing, amazing stuff.
unidentified		Keep up the great work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Have a good morning.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		I hate to be the one to tell you this, but somebody has to.
unidentified		The man that you had on is a complete, total, psychobabble-pushing fraud.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's what I think you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think you are a psychobabble, complete just a radical idiot.
unidentified		Number one, he said ancient Egypt had no slaves.
		Give me a break.
		Every human being was no more than a herd of cattle owned by the Pharaoh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, goodbye.
		You know, I'm tired of you.
		You know, do me a favor, Rickmeister, Heitmeister, Blowhard, and call somebody else's show.
		I don't mind an intelligent discourse, but I'm tired of your foul language couched in somebody else's language.
		I'm tired of your foul attitude.
		I'm tired of you.
		Call somebody else's show.
		Grace somebody else's airwaves with your psycho babble.
		Don't call me anymore.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Bill?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		This is Dora from San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
unidentified		Fine.
		I've been enjoying your program tonight.
		Do you know that a friend of yours was there at the building of the pyramids and that he's had a guided tour of the passageways?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I did not know that.
unidentified		And I believe every word he said and anything you want to know in the minutest detail, he has explained.
unidentified		Gordon Michael Scallion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Thank you.
		I have the article.
		Did you fax that article to me?
unidentified		No, I didn't.
unidentified		But millions of other people want to know all these things that you keep talking about on the air, the answers to them, like who built the pyramids?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have a long article, thank you, on Gordon Michael Scallion and what he has seen with regard to the Sphinx and the chambers and the pyramids.
		I have a long article, and I appreciate your commenting on that.
		And it might be a good reason to bring Gordon back.
		I need to contact Gordon again.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, is this Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, yes.
unidentified		Hi, this is Chris and Suzanne.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Chris.
unidentified		Hi.
		I was just captured, my imagination was just captured by your last guest.
		And I wanted to ask you, I wanted to ask him, but have you ever heard of Jose Arguellis who wrote The Mind Factor?
		I wanted to ask Graham if he had ever found in any of the Egyptian writings, in the text, anything that related to the similar information in the mind calendar and perhaps in the way that Jose had interpreted it.
		Do you recall what that's about?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And of course, I could have kept Graham here probably for the next year.
unidentified		Yeah, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But he's back in New York.
		It's what, 20 after 5 now.
		And so I had to let him go.
		Next time he comes back, we will ask.
unidentified		Okay, and he'd be a great guest for the Air Guillaume if you could get him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, and have a good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
		Going, going, going.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		I haven't heard you mention anything about this, and I was just wondering about the energy.
		You know, there was 10, 15 years ago, it was a big thing about pyramid energy.
		And I've experimented with it, and I found it does have, there is an energy to it.
		It's quite subtle, but it's there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I believe that to be so, and perhaps it's magnified with the size of what you have at Giza.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
unidentified		Did you ever hear about the, well, I forget his name, but the scientists who got into it, and he has apparently he had a patent, and then they shut him down on the patent, the U.S. government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not aware of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A patent on a pyramid, you mean?
unidentified		No, no, the energy.
unidentified		Some kind of machine he used with the energy from a pyramid energy company.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not exactly sure how you would patent energy derived from something as ancient as the pyramids, but that's interesting.
unidentified		Yeah, have you ever gotten into that at all, Bunch?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, sir, I have not.
		It is a tempting area of investigation, though, and I thank you.
		And I don't doubt that it may well be so.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		Yeah, this is Dick from Andover, Minnesota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Dick.
unidentified		Yeah, a little different.
unidentified		You had Wayne Green on talking about, what was it, Bob Bell or something like that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, what?
unidentified		You had Wayne Green on before, and he was talking about this guy that invented that machine for zapping your blood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, uh-huh.
unidentified		Okay, Bob Beck, that's who it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		You ever had him on, or can you get him on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think I probably can get him on, and he'd be a good guest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bob Beck, yes.
unidentified		I'd be really interested in that.
unidentified		You made one little mention about he put it on his head and he's out grew hair.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't recall that.
unidentified		Oh, I remember it.
unidentified		I got it on the tape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're interested in that.
unidentified		I think a lot of people would be interested in that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Growing hair?
		Yeah.
		Well, I think the intent of the machine was far more serious.
unidentified		Well, but, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if you need hair, fine.
unidentified		Any port in the storm, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any port in the storm.
		Oh, look, all right, thank you.
		You know, a lot of people worry about their hair, and I wonder why that is, says he, who still has a full head.
		At 51, I'm lucky.
		So I guess if I was losing it, I would certainly feel a different way.
		And, you know, it's funny.
		I talked to my wife.
		And, of course, myself, I have a mustache, and it's graying out now.
		I'm beginning to get gray hairs in it.
		Yes, indeed.
		And then I listen to my lovely wife, who has very long hair, very long hair.
		And every now and then she will say, look, the gray hair.
		And she used to pluck them from her head.
		And I finally talked her out of it.
		And I said, look.
		Let it occur naturally.
		It'll be beautiful.
		And it will.
		I have this, she doesn't wear makeup.
		My wife never wears makeup.
		All unnatural.
		And I feel the same way about hair.
		I think it's rather beautiful.
		There's nothing so horrible about the aging process.
		It simply is a sign of transition.
		Nothing to fear.
		In fact, it holds its own natural beauty.
		Now, I don't know if that communicates anything to you.
		Maybe it sounds like, as hype Meister Gerhart, now banned forevermore from this show, would say, psycho-babble, but it is indeed the way I feel.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I would just like for you to tell some of your skeptics that if they will take the time to go out and buy Hancock's stories, a sign and the seal, I know, and also the fingerprints of the gods, it will change their way of thinking about certain things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, sir, I don't mind skeptics.
		I like intelligent conversation, intelligent discourse, even intelligent dissent.
		It's all fine, and we can sit here and fight intellectually about things.
		But I know who you're referring to, and I've had it with that guy.
		I'm not putting up with that kind of stuff anymore.
		Skeptics fine.
		Idiots, nothing.
unidentified		He's a pain in the neck.
		I'll tell you, I did listen to him.
		That's the first time I've ever heard him tonight.
		I listen to you every now and then, and I had never heard of Grand Hancock until I listened to your program.
		It's been about three weeks ago, and I went right out and got the books, and I did.
		I haven't got the secret of the Sphinx yet, but I intend to get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Message of the Sphinx, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's actually called The Message of the Sphinx.
unidentified		The Message of the Sphinx, I mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, by the way?
unidentified		I'm in Freeland, Washington.
unidentified		That's in the San Juan Islands on the Whippy Island.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, way out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, what Mr. Hancock had to say may have been many things, but one thing it sure as hell wasn't was psycho babble.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate your call.
		Thank you very much.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
		Going once.
		Going twice.
		Are you there?
unidentified		Yeah.
		Go.
		How are you doing?
		This is Mary.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know what that was, but I'm not listening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello, Art Bill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		This is the Kansas Corn Servative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hey, I just listened to what you said about your wife's getting gray hair.
		Yeah.
		She doesn't have to.
		I started turning white when I was 23.
		Yep.
		And now I'm getting it back to its natural color, but I'm not dying it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you doing it?
unidentified		It's a copper shortage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, minerals.
unidentified		You get it.
unidentified		I'm taking collodial minerals that contain copper, and I'm beginning to grow dark hair again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you also taking collodial silver?
unidentified		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Yes, I've heard a lot of good things.
		But again, you know, take all the silver and copper you want.
		The time is going to come when your hair is going to get gray.
		I mean, the aging process is a degenerative process.
		It's not necessarily the end of everything.
		It's just eventually going to be the end of you.
		And it's not necessarily a horrible thing.
		It's just a natural thing.
		I mean, we grow older.
		That is the way.
unidentified		What I originally called in for while Paul Grant was there, I know we don't quote the Bible on your show.
unidentified		You can paraphrase it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you can.
unidentified		There's a passage, I believe it's in Isaiah, that's rather interesting.
		It says, depending upon what translation you read, it says there is a pillar and a monument, or some of the others say an altar to God Almighty in the center of and at the border of Egypt.
		Now, most people assume they're talking about a pillar on one border and a monument over in the center someplace.
		But interestingly enough, there's an upper and lower Egypt.
		And the Great Pyramid of Giza sits right at the boundary between Upper and Lower Egypt.
		It also sits smack dab in the middle of both of them.
		So I think they're talking about one thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One of the things that struck me during that whole interview was his belief in reincarnation, followed by his statement with regard to the way he feels about the Sphinx and the whole Giza area of the pyramids,
		that it is in effect an alarm clock for mankind, that we are meant to be at about this time to learn the knowledge that is within.
		But that when we do, it will reveal to us that we've been doing it all the wrong way.
unidentified		Wouldn't surprise me a bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me a bit either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And not to glorify the guy who sat in that little cabin and blew people up who are involved in technology.
unidentified		It's quite a cabin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, quite a cabin.
		All right, thank you very much for the call, sir, and have a good morning.
		I'm still thinking very, very hard about all of that.
		This was really an interesting program.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 11th, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from July
		11th, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from July 11th, 1996.
		Thank you.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 11, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This story just in, sent to me, I can't say story, sent to me by PAX, Art.
		On the last news break, there was a report about hundreds of sharks invading the Sea of Bengal.
		Bengal, I guess, actually.
		Sea of Bengal.
		Gathering in PAX, the sharks turned over a boat and ate the fishermen aboard.
		Holy cow, Mati and Maui.
		So has anybody seen that report?
		My oh my.
		Why would hundreds of sharks gather, turn a boat over, and eat the occupants?
		I'm telling you, we are cursed to live in interesting times, are we not?
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, how are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay, sir.
unidentified		I've been listening to your show for a couple months.
		I kind of found it accidentally.
		Listen, I just wanted to say a couple things real quick.
		You know, I'm a devout Republican for some unknown reason.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nothing wrong with that.
unidentified		No.
		Well, the thing is I've been kind of hard times, but that's for sure.
		But the thing is, I was listening to they've had some stuff on C-SPAN, and I was listening to these independents talking.
		And I kind of like their viewpoints, but the thing is that I feel that's unfair about the system is that these little guys that make sense to you never get in the limelight.
		Well, they're not getting the experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, there's fair and there's fair.
		Next Wednesday, I'm going to have Harry Brown on.
		He has been nominated as the Libertarian presidential candidate.
		And he's going to be on the program, and he will make sense to you.
		Now, you say it's not fair because they never get the limelight.
		You know, if an idea is powerful enough, and if the time is right, you know, timing really is everything, and enough American people believe and embrace an idea, then it can happen.
		And the only reason it hasn't happened yet is because the two main centrist bodies of thought embrace pretty much the center, a little to the left and a little to the right generally of center.
		And then, of course, there's people like the idiot that I knocked off here a while ago who are way out at the fringe.
		But though they may seem to at times dominate talk radio, or some of it, not here, you know, the main bodies of thought are slightly conservative or liberal from center.
		And that's the truth.
		Now, that's why generally you end up with a nominee of one or the other of those bodies of thought, or political parties, if you will.
		It's not magic.
		It's just the way it is.
unidentified		It's the system that we have to deal with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Well, you know, another thing that I wanted to also bring into the light, too, I haven't heard anybody standing on the American Indian issue.
		You know, everybody seems to care.
		I'm Cherokee Indian.
		And I noticed that a lot of these other people, they don't care what's going on here in our country, you know, to the Native Americans.
		And everyone seems to be concerned with the world around us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You may want to listen tomorrow night.
		I may have.
		Oh, really?
		I may have.
		I stress, may have a very unusual event tomorrow night.
unidentified		Maybe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Robert Morningsky, who is a Native American, may be here.
		And maybe not.
		I don't know.
		I've had a communication from him.
		He's a very interesting individual.
		So if you're interested in things Native American, don't miss it.
		He is said to possibly be holding the final Hopi Prophecies.
		He may be my guest tomorrow night.
		We'll see.
unidentified		Well, I've been listening to you every night, so I'll tune in tomorrow night.
unidentified		Maybe I'll get in another call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe you will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for the call.
unidentified		Same.
		Great.
		Thanks a lot, Arthur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		I don't know.
		We'll see about that.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air, Top O the morning.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm doing.
unidentified		Great show tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I sent you facts before about the Coral Castle.
unidentified		I don't know if you've got it in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think not.
unidentified		Okay, well, I'm calling from Florida.
unidentified		There's a place down here in Miami called the Coral Castle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're in Miami?
unidentified		I'm in Fort Lauderdale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fort Lauderdale?
unidentified		Okay.
		There's a place down here called the Coral Castle, and it's a two-story structure, and it was built by this very slight man from Latvia in the early part of the century, and it was just cut out of slabs of coral.
		And it's a two-story structure with a wall of coral completely around it, and there's one slab, which is a revolving door, which you can just push with your finger and turn it.
		And the thing must weigh about several tons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
unidentified		Yeah, and it was supposedly built totally with blocks and tackles and primitive tools.
		And they tell you when you're going through the tour here that this fellow knew the secrets of the Egyptians or whoever who built the pyramids.
		And it's an amazing structure, and just everything about the place is like maybe something you'd be interested in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		So if you could find out any information about it, it is quite unusual.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll see what I can figure out.
unidentified		All righty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		Have a good morning.
		And glad to have you along.
		That's Florida, WFTL, in Fort Lauderdale, Miami.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Oh, my goodness.
		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my goodness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm pretty well, actually.
unidentified		I am calling in response to the soul sucker.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I took that as very serious.
unidentified		When did this happen?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The last few days.
unidentified		I had something happen on Sunday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like what?
unidentified		Well, it didn't deal with cyberspace.
		And as a matter of fact, the reason I didn't go to my priest is because I wasn't really sure that I was dreaming or awake.
		But I was enveloped in these arms, and it woke me up because they were touching my face.
		And I was trying to push the arms off, and I could not get the arms off.
		Meanwhile, I'm trying to wake up my husband, who was laying to the right of me, and these arms are on the left of me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I wouldn't like that at all.
unidentified		Well, this creature was putting a leg over me, and I would try to push the leg off.
		He was pushing an arm on me, and I was trying to push the arm off.
		Finally, they grabbed my left hand, and they put my hand to his head, and there were little short bristles all over this thing's forehead.
		And I finally screamed, he's back.
		And I woke up my husband, and I said, did you see anything?
		And he said, you're just dreaming, go back to sleep.
		So when you talked about the soul sucker, I just about jumped out of my skin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I jumped out of my skin when I read this because I think it's real.
		And you know what I think happened?
		I think this guy gave his soul away.
unidentified		You think so?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		Well, I tell you what I did.
unidentified		The next night I went and got my rosary out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he went and got white soap and started making crosses.
		I think it's too late.
		When he said, okay, I think it was all over.
unidentified		Well, I hope not, but I got my rosary out and I haven't been bothered.
		But I told myself, if I have this kind of a dream or whatever it was again, I was definitely going to go to somebody higher up and say, you know, you've got to do something to help me here.
		Because I do believe that people can be possessed by the devil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that's what we've got here, and maybe that's what you've got.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if it happens again, I would go consult those who know about such things because I'm not that person.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		You have a good day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you too take care.
		Tough stuff, huh?
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yeah, you didn't ask that guy if he actually saved the cat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The one that was choking?
		Yeah.
		I would guess the answer was yes.
unidentified		You're right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't ask him, but it apparently did not have a bad outcome, or he would have told us.
unidentified		Well, I'd like to have heard, though.
unidentified		I've got a very scary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's sometimes a cat could really choke, but a lot of times they just thing with cats, you know, hairballs.
unidentified		Yeah, well, I've got one of my own.
unidentified		17 years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One of the funniest things I ever saw was a little...
		It's a diagram of the cat brain.
		And have you ever seen that?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No?
		And it segments the little cat brain apart in different parts of the cat brain and it labels them.
		And the most disgusting part of the whole labeling system is it shows the barf gland connected to the lick gland.
unidentified		I think I've seen something similar to that with dogs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I never have gotten over that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
unidentified		Listen, do you play pinball at all?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when I was 13, I owned two pinball machines.
		It was my life's dream to own a pinball machine.
		And I lived at that time in a place called Media, Pennsylvania, and my mom drove me to Chester, Pennsylvania, where we went to this warehouse, and she bought me my first pinball machine, which I proceeded to take apart and clean and refurbish.
		She claims that I bought it for $25, which now as an adult I know is total bull.
		It costs a lot more, and she subsidized the buy.
		But yes, I love pinballs, sure.
unidentified		Well, there's one called Bad Cat.
unidentified		It was made in 1989 to be on the lookout for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I'm not really up on pinballs, but that's the one that I really like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If I had the space in my house, I would have a pinball machine.
		But I don't right now.
		Thank you very much, sir.
		Take care.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Howdy, how you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
unidentified		This is Joe from Detroit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Joe.
unidentified		I've been unable to listen to you for the past couple hours, but I've been trying to dial in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate the fact you've made it.
unidentified		Thank you.
		By the way, I'm talking on a VTEC.
		It's amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		Although I keep trying to tell people.
		It's easy.
unidentified		Well, if they buy it, they've got a 30-day guarantee they'll never send it back.
unidentified		It's amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		It's as clear as, well, I'm talking on it.
		I know.
		A couple of questions about the pyramids.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I don't know if this was covered earlier, but there's a gentleman by the name of Dr. Gene Scott.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Actually, it was covered earlier, and Gene Scott used to sit for hours and hours and hours.
		For all I know, he still does.
unidentified		I believe he still does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he does.
unidentified		He's up there on satellite.
		But he'd never come to the point.
		And your guest was very precise and very illuminating, I guess that's the word I'm looking for.
		And I'd like to compliment you on that.
		But the other thing is when I was very young, or relatively young, I went to the Mexican pyramids.
		And while I was there, it was the eeriest feeling.
		I remember climbing the side of the pyramid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there is something to it.
unidentified		And truly, it was amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		There really is something to it, sir.
		It's not easily put into words.
		It's one of those things that you have got to go experience for yourself.
unidentified		And if the Egyptian pyramids are half as interesting as, and I'm sure they're more, than the Mexican ones, somehow, some way, somewhere, I've got to get there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then you will.
unidentified		You think so?
		Yep.
		I don't know.
		I'm in a very flux in my life, and my finances are such that, well, hopefully you're right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a way to make things happen.
		It will occur to you.
		If you wish for it, if you want it, you will make it happen.
unidentified		You think?
		Yep.
		Well, that's a good positive attitude.
		I'd like to know how I can pick up your program.
		Oh, that was the other question.
		You were talking maybe a month ago or so about shortwave, and then you stopped talking about it.
		I got a shortwave set now, and I'm waiting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, hang in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is not an easy project because there are a number of domestic shortwave radio stations that we could already be on right now, but we don't want that.
unidentified		I understand the logic, but you want to encircle the world better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		So we are presently in contact with and talking to shortwave stations in Eastern Europe.
		And it's not an easy process because we've got to get a satellite hop across the Atlantic.
		That's all got to be...
unidentified		Perhaps by Christmas?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
unidentified		The definite maybe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A definite maybe.
unidentified		A definite maybe.
unidentified		Well, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Is there a station they can pick up after 5 a.m.?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, do you have a satellite dish?
unidentified		I wish.
unidentified		I don't even have one of those mini dishes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, there isn't right now, if you're in Detroit.
unidentified		Yeah, that's the problem.
unidentified		I'm in Detroit, Dearborn, basically Detroit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, give WJR a call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		could carry a bit more of the show.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Well, then, Lloyd...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		3WES and New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		W-H-A-M.
unidentified		And sometimes New York comes in better than Cleveland.
unidentified		It's kind of surprising.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the ionosphere for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I got to run, sir.
unidentified		Okay.
		Well, thanks again.
		You have a great show, and I'll keep listening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Take care.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 11th, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from July 11th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, back to it we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And on the first time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		This is Tony in Portland.
		Yes, sir.
		Quickly, a couple points.
		Morningstar, when you have him on, could you ask what the name of the individual he claims is running things from behind the scenes?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that'll be a natural question, I suppose, yeah.
unidentified		And then you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, I want to be careful here because I don't guarantee I'm going to have him on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He sent me a fax and said he'd be willing to come on, and I will call him today.
unidentified		And then also, Deo and Jim Birkland.
		Yes.
		They've both been to Egypt and ask them about their tales.
		It's absolutely fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jim Birkland?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I will do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Depend on that.
unidentified		Stan Deo also.
		Okay.
		I mean, they've both been there and they both have absolutely fascinating tales.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I will ask them.
unidentified		You'll get a kick out of it.
unidentified		Bye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, bye-bye.
		Take care.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Mr. Bill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Caller.
unidentified		This is Mitch, the magic Christian.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is Art, the average guy.
unidentified		All right, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Mitch.
unidentified		Tonight's the night, man.
		I got a message for you.
		Yeah?
		Yeah, you've got to jive your way through your relationship with Jesus Christ.
		You've danced around when people have asked you direct questions about the Bible and what you believe about it.
		You said, yeah, I've read the Bible two or three times.
		Well, you know, tonight's night.
		If you let me finish, I'm going to box you in, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not going to let you box me in.
unidentified		Well, then hang up on me now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, goodbye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		This is Mark and Decatur.
		Hi, Mark.
		I wanted to mention about Bob Dole and his NAACP invitation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I think from what I'm hearing here, you may have been getting things a little bit wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did I?
		I understand that he said he had a scheduling conflict.
		Is that about right?
unidentified		Well, one thing that basically, yes, what I heard was that he had been invited the day before the invitation, he received it.
		Yes.
		And he said, no, I can't make it that time.
		How about another time?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think it was his reaction to the questioning that followed it that probably got him in a little bit of trouble.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's Bob Dole's problem so far.
		In other words, not so much what he does, but how he does it and the manner in which he responds to questioning about it.
		It's like the way Couric went after him or the way he went after Couric, more likely.
		That's the problem he's having.
unidentified		Well, this whole thing is becoming very discouraging to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is.
		It's discouraging and depressing early on here.
		But maybe we can take a bright look at it and say it can't get much worse.
unidentified		Well, I hope not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate your call.
unidentified		Okay, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is depressing to talk about, and that's the best thing you can hope, that it can't get much worse.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
		This is Bob.
		I'm on the road in central Indiana.
		Hi, Bob.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes?
unidentified		I'll be real brief.
		I know you're coming up on break here.
		Looks like we've got another sign of the apocalypse.
		Did you hear what happened in Madison Square Garden this morning?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		Isn't that incredible?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Isn't that incredible?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		And there was something else I wanted to mention, too.
unidentified		All this bickering and fighting over gay marriages.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		You know what comes after that, though, don't you?
unidentified		Gay divorces.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gay divorces.
		I suppose that would be true.
		In a civil contract that can be made, it can be broken as well, huh?
unidentified		There you go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
unidentified		There you go.
		And, you know, who gets custody of the Judy Garland albums, you know?
		Jeez.
		All right, have a good one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we'll see you later.
		There's going to be a big fight, I'm sure, in the house.
		Well, maybe the big fight's over and the big vote is about to occur.
		On the first time, call our line.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello, Art.
		How are you this morning?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great.
unidentified		Listen, just a curiosity point.
unidentified		I live up here in Reno.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		There is a Reno news review paper that just came out on the 10th.
		It talks about the security officers down in Area 51, which doesn't exist.
		We all know that, just joined a union.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would be a union that doesn't exist tonight.
unidentified		Exactly.
		Exactly.
		I thought maybe if you'd like a copy of it, I will put one in the mail to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whack and hut local number one, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, that's it.
unidentified		That's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, my friend, you're going to get the honors tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what the honors are?
unidentified		Well, I don't, but what are we going to do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going to say goodnight, America.
unidentified		Well, good night, America, wherever you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right, wherever you are.
		A moving target, I suspect, from the high desert where it's drizzling but beautiful.
		I'm Mark Bell.

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