All Episodes
June 28, 1996 - Art Bell
02:44:05
19960628_Art-Bell-SIT-Jim-Berkland-Earthquakes

Jim Birkland, a retired California geologist with 75%+ earthquake prediction accuracy, ties seismic risks to syzygies—sun-moon-Earth alignments—warning of a 3.5-6 magnitude quake near Los Angeles, San Jose, and Seattle by July 6, 1996, amid extreme tides from a blue moon and lunar perigee. He cites animal behavior (missing pets, whale strandings) and human symptoms like pineal-gland headaches as precursors, dismissing planetary theories while criticizing USGS failures like Parkfield’s missed quake. Birkland highlights thrust faults’ hidden dangers, such as Northridge’s 1994 damage to steel-and-concrete buildings, and urges private schools to update seismic safety beyond the Field Act’s public-school mandate. His predictions, rooted in tidal forces and historical patterns, suggest California’s fault lines remain unpredictable despite official reassurances, leaving residents vulnerable to underreported risks. [Automatically generated summary]

Participants
Main
a
art bell
39:35
j
jim berkland
01:35:38
Appearances
Clips
b
brian harrison
rep/r 00:27
k
kathleen keating
00:20
Callers
chris-2 in virginia
callers 00:13
|

Speaker Time Text
Jim Berkland's Earthquake Predictions 00:04:45
unidentified
Welcome to Art Bell somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 28, 1996.
art bell
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning as the moon pulls full this weekend from the Hawaiian and Tahitian Island chains eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north to the Pole, and worldwide on the internet.
unidentified
This is Coast to Coast AM.
art bell
And a lot of you have been asking for him.
I've received facts after facts and phone call and email.
And where's Jim Birkland?
Well, that's who I've got for you tonight, Jim Birkland.
He is a California geologist.
Actually, a fascinating, fascinating guy.
And I'm going to read you the facts that I received, the email actually last night from Jim.
Art, I would be pleased to be on your show anytime.
This summer can't miss for the West Coast terrestrial tingles.
That's in quotes, terrestrial tingles.
The word earthquake frightens, he says, some people enough, so they wanted me fired after naming and predicting the World Series quake.
I was allowed to return to my job as county geologist after two and a half months of suspension after promising, quote, not to predict any more earthquakes on county time, end quote.
We'll find out whether he's on county time right now in a minute.
That's when I began my monthly newsletter.
He is a fascinating guy, a geologist, a predictor of earthquakes.
He is Jim Birkland, and I'll tell you something, folks.
We are entering a particularly interesting time in about an hour.
I think it's in about an hour.
Jim will tell you all about it.
So coming up in a moment, Jim Berkland, geologist extraordinaire.
unidentified
All right, a couple of little announcements here.
art bell
One, everybody's been asking to see a photograph of my crazy wild cat comet.
Comet, in what we call the pinky slink position, is now to be viewed on my webpage as of about an hour ago.
Comet's picture for the first time is up there.
So those of you who wanted to see Comet, there you go.
In addition on my webpage, I'm going to give you two reasons to go to the webpage tonight.
Though Jim Birkland does not have a webpage of his own, my webmaster, Keith Rowland, has located several references to Jim Birkland in earthquake areas of the internet, and there are appropriate links up there now.
So if you want to find out more about Jim Birkland, you can do that also on the webpage.
So myCat Comet and Jim Birkland, not necessarily in that order, up on my webpage, which is www.artbell.com.
unidentified
Easy.
art bell
www.artbell.com.
unidentified
James Birkeland.
art bell
I have in front of me the Who's Who in Science and Engineering Third Edition Award given to James Birkeland.
And those included in this award, Actually, limited, those limited to receiving this award are those individuals who have demonstrated outstanding achievement in their own fields of endeavor and who have thereby contributed significantly to the betterment of contemporary society.
unidentified
The Marquis Whose Who Award.
art bell
Now, I wonder if his earthquake predictions got him there.
I've got a number of, he faxed me, zillions of pages today of California headline stuff.
For example, Gilroy, the Dispatch, a 7.0 monster, it says, back on October 18th of 89.
Geologist is on the money, the story says.
Jim Birkland would rather have been wrong, but Tuesday's Quake made true his prediction, measuring 3.5 to 6.0 on the Richter scale.
Pronounce Syzygy Correctly 00:03:11
art bell
So Jim called that one.
Or this newspaper headline.
California geologist was right on the money with his prediction.
And this is the Seattle Times.
He's too dignified to say, I told you so, but California geologist Jim Birkland did indeed tell us so, and he's got video to prove it.
That's the beginning of the article.
Or this one from the Times-Tribune.
Birkland scores again on Quake.
Earthquake predictor Jim Birkland has scored again, the Santa Clara County geologist who gained notoriety for his World Series earthquake.
Called for an earthquake of between 3.5 and 5.5 to hit within 70 miles of San Jose, January 9th, and or through the 16th, I believe.
And sure enough, 4.2, January 12th, 68 miles south of San Jose.
And on and on and on it goes.
And the secret, he says, is Syzygy.
His name is harder to say than Marseilles.
Marcesa.
Marcesa.
Marcesa, I guess that's his name.
Nobody could get it right.
There's about 25 ways of pronouncing it.
How do you pronounce S-Y-Z-Y-G-Y?
What kind of word is that?
Jim Birkland, hello.
jim berkland
Hello, Art.
It's from the Greek.
Zykos, meaning yoked together like a team of oxen.
art bell
Well, let me hear you pronounce it.
jim berkland
Syzygy.
art bell
Scizard.
Oh, it sounds like there's an R in there.
jim berkland
Well, it shouldn't.
Syzygy.
unidentified
Syzygy.
jim berkland
Unless you have from New York, you might say a little R.
But actually, I put it phonetically on the header of my newsletter so that people, the first time through, they often pick it up.
Syzygy.
And when I went to get that for my license plate, a personalized license plate.
art bell
Yes.
jim berkland
They said, now, what does that mean?
You know, really, here's the story.
art bell
Something evil.
Something nasty.
jim berkland
And I said, well, I explained.
It's the sun, moon, and earth lining up twice a month at new and full moon times.
And she said, well, before you get it, you better check the big book and see if anybody else has it.
And I said, are you kidding?
Well, I went to the big book, and there were 15 people that beat me to it.
art bell
So you would have to be Syzygy number 16.
jim berkland
Well, I had Syzygy Q.
It sounds a little like Suzy Q, and it also Syzygy then Quake.
art bell
How about Syzygy O for original?
jim berkland
Well, but Syzygy Quake is a little more fitting, I think.
I had that on my car for about two weeks, and all of a sudden the cop pulled me over, and I thought, well, what have I done?
He said, I just had to know what that meant.
art bell
Really?
And so you told him, you explained it?
Sure, yeah.
jim berkland
That was the only reason he stopped.
art bell
All right, look, a couple of days ago, this is no kidding, because I read it on the air, so it's documented in my tape replays.
People Feeling Something 00:10:54
art bell
I began to get faxes from people, Jim, saying, hey, Art, have you noticed people being on edge?
Have you noticed people being weirded out in the last couple of days?
We're building towards something.
Other people sending facts and saying the hair on the back of my neck is standing up.
People are beginning to feel something, Jim.
You know, like something is upon us.
jim berkland
This is similar to reports I've had many times in the past, and I have been getting half a dozen in the last week.
I think there is something to it.
I had my own transient, an ocular transient.
We get the zigzag lines almost like I had my own seismogram inside my head and lost visual acuity there for about 20 minutes.
I had before.
I've never related it to earthquakes before, but I'm going to pay attention to what happens in the next few days, very much so.
unidentified
All right.
art bell
You are, just so that everybody knows, you are now on county time, right?
jim berkland
No, no.
I retired.
I retired from the county, so I'm free as a bird.
art bell
Oh, you really are, then?
jim berkland
What I want without fear of censorship.
art bell
So now is the time when you can say about your old boss everything you ever wanted to say.
jim berkland
Yes, I told him he's going to have a prominent role in my book.
art bell
All right.
Who exactly did you work for?
jim berkland
I worked for the County of Santa Clara as their first and only county geologist for 21 years.
art bell
21 years.
jim berkland
And then in 1989, one week exactly after the World Series earthquake, they called me into a person-to-person conference and they said, Jim, because of your recent pronouncements, I'm very troubled.
I want you to go home for a few days and not speak to the media about earthquakes.
art bell
What had you done?
First of all, take me back before that event.
I mean, somehow you predicted this earthquake.
jim berkland
Along with many, many others since 1974.
art bell
Yes.
jim berkland
And so, you know, it is.
art bell
But I mean, you went to the press, or how did you get the information?
jim berkland
Well, in most cases, the press came to me.
In this case, things were piling up to such a degree, I had to get the word out because I felt that people needed to be informed, just like if you saw some funnel clouds beginning to drop.
art bell
Yes.
jim berkland
And we had things like deer clustering around the house with a whole herd of deer coming without fear of people.
We had a little hamster that was very friendly, suddenly bites at the hand that fed it.
art bell
Really?
jim berkland
And we had seagulls lining up in parks like troops on parade and row and file, rank and file.
art bell
Now, you also follow lost dog reports, don't you?
jim berkland
Very, very much so.
That was introduced to me back in 1979 by a physicist with Xerox who called me up while I was home eating and he said, Mr. Birkeland, you know, I've been following your predictions and I agree with you with your upcoming seismic window because the cats are disappearing again.
And I said, what?
He said, yes, I look at the lost and found column in the local paper and I see it lengthens just before local quakes.
Well, I almost hung up on him because I'm a scientist, you know, and this was so outlandish and I've weathered many outlandish ideas and suggestions from others.
But this one threw me until suddenly it's like I really had that light bulb sort of appear over my head.
Our cat, Rocky, had disappeared six days before the strongest quake since 1911.
And I hadn't associated him disappearing with the earthquake that followed, the 5.9, August 6, 1979.
But I had mailed on August 2nd a letter to the U.S. Geological Survey in Denver predicting that between the 7th and 14th we would have such a quake.
art bell
Did you get an answer?
jim berkland
Oh, yes.
But when they said, Jim, we've just looked at your first five years of predictions and you hit the 99 percentile level.
There's only one chance in 100.
What you've been doing is accidental, but we think you've been lucky.
art bell
Lucky?
jim berkland
Yes.
Lucky.
And then they said, if you tell some media person I told you this, I'll deny it.
And he has been true to his word.
And I didn't get it in writing.
When they issued their final report on this, so they were taking predictions from numerologists and astrologers and dreamers and anyone that wanted to file a prediction.
And when they came out with their final report, they said no one achieved the required 99 percentile level, and no scientist even bothered to submit a prediction.
So I called him up immediately, and I said, I'm not chopped liver.
I'm a fellow in the Geological Society and a member of half a dozen other scientific groups.
I've published more than 50 scientific papers, so I am a scientist.
And he said, Well, what I really meant to say was that an insufficient number of scientists had filed predictions to make it statistically meaningful.
That's a little different.
art bell
I see.
jim berkland
But he never changed it in his final report.
And they've done this time after time, and that's why in this month's newsletter, I've just stopped being on the defensive.
I've gotten offensive and said, if they're so damn good, what's their record?
art bell
Well, that's a good question, actually.
Do they have one?
Has USGS ever indulged in official prediction?
And if so, what is there?
jim berkland
With in less frequent, on a less frequent occasion lately, they have at least 12 on record, and they've missed all of them.
art bell
All of them?
unidentified
Yes.
art bell
Well, that's not very impressive.
jim berkland
Well, it's pretty sad.
In fact, their most prominent one was the Parkfield experiment in which they had a 95% chance.
art bell
I remember that.
What a flop.
jim berkland
Yeah, for a six-magnitude or better to hit by the end of 1992.
And it still has not happened.
And that almost was the end of the USGS.
They almost lost their funding a couple of years ago with this, what I call the contraction of America.
art bell
Well, so you either would go to the press, the press would more likely come to you and say, what's going on?
And so you knew this quake was coming somehow.
jim berkland
Oh, yes.
Well, we had the highest tidal force in three years on October 14th, 1989.
We had the full moon and the closest approach of the moon in three years, only three hours apart.
And the exact same thing happened back in 1865 on October 4th.
And October 8th, 1865, a seven-magnitude quake hit the San Andreas Fault near Loma Prieta.
And so with the same conditions developing, I could see the probabilities were there at the start of the year.
And I issued a little pamphlet saying that between the 14th and 21st, there was an 80% chance that there would be a 3.5 to 6 magnitude quake, or 5.5 magnitude at the top.
And then just before that critical period, instead of seeing four or five missing cats in the paper, there were 27.
I mean, it was a whole different universe looking in there.
Instead of a three-inch column of lost and found, it was 12 inches long.
art bell
These are cats that disappear.
Just to dwell on this for a second.
What about cats that are house cats that cannot disappear?
Do people notice differences in their behavior?
jim berkland
Oh, sure.
They'll do things.
They'll not eat their favorite food.
They will follow you around the house as if they don't want you out of their sight.
Or they will demand to get outside and you'll open the door and they won't go out.
They'll expect you to go out with them.
One case, a cat got on the favorite armchair of the owner, and the cat had been forbidden to get on that chair.
It got up on top, as if on a mountain peak, and let out a big yodel.
They'd never heard such a sound come out of this cat in five years.
Four hours later, we had a 4.4 quake, the strongest in about a year in the area.
art bell
How do you think?
This is a silly question, of course, but how do you think these animals are feeling this?
jim berkland
Well, I think they rely upon the Earth's magnetic field for navigation.
And that's how these dogs and cats will come 1,000 miles home.
You take them away and they come back.
That's not magic.
And that's how the whales and dolphins travel and migrate thousands of miles north-south along the Pacific coast, you know.
In fact, Dr. Kirschmink at UCLA has his hypothesis is that they travel in magnetic troughs.
And if you just follow that up, you say, aha, if this magnetic trough, which is going mainly north-south, should be diverted, it should get anomalous and lead onto a beach, then up come the whales and the dolphins and beach themselves.
And if you go out and turn them around, they come back up again.
Yeah, we had Humphrey in the bay.
The last time he came into San Francisco Bay was in October of 1990.
And he got stuck on the mud at Candlestick Park, and they spent a couple of days keeping him wet and throwing lines around and finally towed him off.
And the beautiful picture of him waving his flukes goodbye to San Francisco.
art bell
Going around to the Golden Gate.
jim berkland
Well, did you notice in the column right next to his picture in several papers, 5.8 quake shakes the Bay Area?
He got disoriented as animals will before earthquakes.
I have many, many reports of homing pigeons losing their way prior to significant quakes in the local area.
They fly over the fault line that's under disturbance and they get them disoriented.
art bell
All right.
We are not as much in touch with these primitive, I think they're primitive senses that animals have, but we too are animals, and so people, some people anyway, feel these things, don't they?
jim berkland
Yes, and it's funny, I used to find it much easier to accept that animals could detect these things, and then I started getting calls from people, especially the people with headaches.
Now, nine separate people have called me and they say, well, we've heard you do with animals, but don't let this get around.
But I get these terrible headaches.
And they start three or four days in advance of a local quake.
And I tell my family about it, and they laugh and then make fun of me.
And then, just a few hours or a few minutes before the quake itself, the pain and pressure disappear.
And that's when I know the quake is imminent.
I get the same story again and again.
And the first two such stories came, first one in 1982 and the next one in 1986.
And in between, exactly halfway between, there was a meeting of the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco and they announced for the first time the discovery of the mineral magnetite in the human body.
And it's right between the eyebrows where this pain, this headache is centered.
And that's where the pineal gland is.
And that's where the mystical third eye is supposed to be.
And where the Indian ladies paint the red spot.
There's a lot going on there that we don't understand.
Best Seismic Window 00:15:37
jim berkland
But some people are still attuned in with their primitive sense.
art bell
Ooh, that's fascinating.
jim berkland
Yeah.
art bell
I never thought about that red spot, that Indian girls see.
True.
Now, we're not going to have time for it because we're coming to the bottom of the hour.
But one very special reason I had you on tonight is because we are at a very strange moment, aren't we?
jim berkland
The window's about to open.
The best seismic window of the year.
If you're looking at best, if you're looking on behalf of earthquakes, you know, but the most the clearest seismic window of the year.
We're having the blue moon on the 30th, which is the second full moon in a single month.
And it's only eight hours, I guess it's 18 hours away from the closest approach of the moon for the last six months.
art bell
18 hours.
jim berkland
And this is producing tides all up and down the coast.
That will be the highest of the year.
And the tide changes from high to low in just a six-hour period.
And as this water comes sweeping up the estuaries in the bays, each foot of water weighs nearly one million tons per square mile.
So calculate the square miles and look at that load that Old Mother Earth has to endure, and she will occasionally slip a disc.
art bell
All right.
Well, we'll talk about slipping discs in a moment.
Relax for a few, and we'll be right back to you.
That's why he's here.
That's why Jim Birkland is here.
A retired California geologist, and he'll tell you about this window that we're moving into right now.
Beginning in about a half hour, we're moving into this window.
unidentified
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 28th of June of 1996, my guest is retired California geologist Jim Birkland.
art bell
Many of you know him, many of you don't.
Listen carefully, you'll find out about him.
Back to him in a moment.
unidentified
Jim.
art bell
Yes, sir.
All right.
So we're in this window.
How frequently do we get in a window of this clarity?
jim berkland
No more than five times a year that you have a syzygy and a close approach or perigee on the same day.
As few as two times a year.
But to get them only a few hours apart is about a once-a-year occurrence.
This is about a, yeah, about once a year.
The tides only give you an idea as to when.
For any real earthquake prediction, you need to have when, where, how big, and you should give probability.
So we lick the when, in many cases, with the tides.
So as to the where and how big, you rely upon the local effects.
We know what the tides are going to be years ahead of time.
So then as we approach those critical periods, we should look at the animals, the water levels.
You know, your water well may turn arctesian just before a quake.
It may change its temperature.
unidentified
Yeah.
jim berkland
Changes water quality.
Smell like rotten eggs.
Get turbid.
art bell
You know, I had a fellow years ago called my show who used to measure some sort of radiation that was coming.
jim berkland
Radon gas.
art bell
Radon gas.
Yeah, he measured radon gas.
He used to call my program, and with eerie accuracy, he was predicting earthquakes.
jim berkland
I'm afraid so.
And they even detected it in the spring water in Japan before the big quake there in January 17th last year on the day of the full moon in January of 95.
And the reports finally begin to gather.
They wanted one way to check on the old water, but they hadn't been doing it, see, monitoring it.
So they just got the bottled water that had dates on it, uncapped it, and analyzed each bottle in sequence and found the radon peaked out about a week before the big quake.
art bell
So there is something to that.
jim berkland
Oh, absolutely.
unidentified
Absolutely.
jim berkland
That's one of some 50 clues that have been used at various times by various people.
art bell
So the sun causing a great disturbance in the upper atmosphere might also affect things.
jim berkland
Oh, gosh, yes.
art bell
And then they've been also talking about a connection lately, a geological connection to, I know it sounds strange, but to the upper atmosphere, and they've been tracking these pulses of energy that go way out into the upper atmosphere during a lightning storm.
It's really weird.
I guess you've heard some about that.
jim berkland
And from the space shuttle, the photographs there are incredible.
art bell
That's right, yes.
So there's a lot about gravity that we just plain don't understand.
jim berkland
Yeah, I say, you know, when Newton had the apple hit him on the head, they said it wasn't apple.
I said, well, I really always thought it was a fig because we've all heard of Fig Newton.
And then people said, well, now they make Apple Newton, so it spoiled my story.
art bell
So you use almost 50 different data points?
jim berkland
Well, there's that many available.
I use four or five.
art bell
Four or five.
jim berkland
And even I must admit, as a scientist, that there are some psychics that have the ability to predict earthquakes.
unidentified
Yes.
jim berkland
And just because we don't have the explanation for it now, that doesn't mean it's not science.
art bell
That's true.
You know, of course, of Gordon Michaels Scallion.
jim berkland
Oh, yes.
art bell
And others who do it and do it fairly reliably.
What over the years would you say you can document your accuracy rating to be?
jim berkland
At least 75%.
Back in 1985, as high as 83%.
And then people kind of say, well, Jim, you're only giving us four or five or six seismic windows per year, and I want to plan this trip or plan washing in the upper windows of my two-story apartment or something.
What's happening next month?
So I begin to give the best window for each month.
And so I don't just deal with the cream at the top.
I deal with the best window of each month, and that has made my average drop.
art bell
However, we happen to be at the cream of the crop.
jim berkland
Oh, yes, this time.
art bell
When does that officially begin at night?
At midnight tonight, huh?
jim berkland
Our time here.
My window runs from midnight tonight to midnight on the 6th of July.
An eight-day window.
It always is.
It usually opens the day before the newer full moon, but it can open up to three days before, depending on what the tides show me.
So if anyone gets hold of the latest 1996 DOT tide book that goes free at Sporting Goods stores, they'll see a couple of pages about me and my methods in there.
art bell
Oh, no kidding.
unidentified
Yeah.
jim berkland
It's quite surprising to look in there and see, oh, seismic windows, and they have identified them for each month.
And, for example, in May, it was quite an ordinary month, tide-wise.
The moon and the perigee were some four days apart, and so the tides reached no higher than 7.3 feet at the Golden Gate, the difference between a high and low on a single day.
art bell
Right.
jim berkland
But then in June, on June 2nd, we had an 8.3-foot range, and it gradually declined from that.
And on that day, we had a 7.0 magnitude quake in the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.
We hadn't had a major quake, a 7 or better, since April.
All of May, we didn't get a 7.
And then we got that one on the 2nd, and on the 9th, a 7.7 in ADAC, and the 10th, 7.2 in ADAC, 11th, 7.2 in the Philippines, San Mar Island, and on the 17th, a 7.5 or 8 by one reading, and the Flores Sea.
Well, that meant five major quakes in one month.
art bell
Yeah, I've been watching these.
jim berkland
And it averages only one per month.
So you've got five in the month of June.
Extremely high tide month.
art bell
Right.
Here's my question for you.
I've been watching them.
I get a facts report whenever an earthquake occurs.
And there have been gigantic quakes, as you're pointing out, all around the ring of fire, very nearly, except the U.S. West Coast.
jim berkland
Yes, the last really prominent one was at May 2nd, 5.5 up at Seattle, and my newsletter recipients got their newsletter on the 1st or 2nd of May.
And I had a dozen calls that night saying, thank you.
I kept my kids from going to the Kingdome.
Thank you.
I did work on the you were talking about working on maintenance of all of your equipment.
Yes.
And I went through my generator and fueled it and lubricated it.
It was already when the power went off from the earthquake.
I got lots of reports like that that really gratify me.
art bell
What do you see coming?
Would you care to make, is there a prediction that you would make within the window that we're just about to move into?
Sure.
jim berkland
With every window, I have a prediction or one or more.
art bell
And what do you think?
jim berkland
Okay, there certainly ought to be at least one major quake around the Ring of Fire in this window.
There should be a 3.5 to 6 magnitude quake within 140 miles of Los Angeles.
unidentified
Oh.
jim berkland
2 degrees.
A similar magnitude quake within 70 miles of San Jose.
And a similar magnitude quake within 70 miles or 1 degree of Seattle.
art bell
Wow.
jim berkland
Now, I've hit the only two Seattle quakes of five magnitudes since 1965.
So one last January 28th of 95 and May 2nd of 96.
And both of those I predicted on their media just before the actual quake.
art bell
I've got the Seattle story here.
unidentified
Yeah.
art bell
How do your contemporaries look at you when you do this sort of thing publicly?
Is there a lot of scorn still, or are they beginning to pay some homage to you?
jim berkland
It's gone beyond scorn to real resentment and anger in some cases.
One of my erstwhile colleagues at the U.S. Geological Survey, I went to a session they had on April 18th.
It was commemorating the April 18th, 1906 big one.
Yes.
And just as I came in the door, I heard that they had a quake.
Well, it happened to be the second day of my April seismic window.
And I was wanting to hear about some quakes.
We hadn't had any for several weeks.
And they said, we just had one.
And it turned out to be a 3.7.
Although the first report was a 3.1, which was below my minimum of 3.5, and so I was a little disappointed.
So we went into the meeting, and there they flashed up on the screen, 3.8, and I burst out, all right.
People suddenly looked at me and wondered why I said, well, yes, I predicted at least a 3.5, so that one made it.
And then the beeper went off on the speaker's beeper, and he said, oh, it looks like we've had a little more seismic activity.
We'll show you how this new rapid call-up feature works on our computer.
So he plugged away, and all of a sudden his computer crashed because everybody was calling in at the same time.
And after 20 minutes, they was able to get through to his own station there, and it turned out to be a 4.7, the strongest in three years in the Bay Area.
So that was quite pleasing to me because my range was a 3.5 to 5.5, and it was right in the middle.
And so I saw this bearded geologist who is actually the one responsible for nearly having me fired.
He gave some misinformation to the state geologist.
So I saw him walking down the hall, and so I gave him a big smile, and I said, Al, would you like a copy of my newsletter?
I predicted the quake we just had.
He looked stonelily ahead and shoved this to one side, and he says, I don't want to deal with that.
And he walked out the first door.
art bell
Oh, isn't science wonderful?
jim berkland
So, you know, it's vindication as far as I'm concerned.
art bell
Do you know a fellow named Charles Watson?
unidentified
Oh, yes.
jim berkland
I think he does a wonderful job.
unidentified
He does.
art bell
He's the fellow who sends me the faxes.
jim berkland
Yeah.
art bell
And he is the equivalent of what I used to be.
I used to chase tornadoes.
I was one of those crazy people.
jim berkland
I'm sure you've seen Twister.
art bell
As a matter of fact, I haven't seen it yet.
Oh, no, I'll see it.
And the reason I mentioned Charles Watson is because Charles Watson is, for earthquakes, what I suspect you are, the equivalent of a tornado chaser.
And when he was on the air with me, I asked him, if you knew there was going to be a five-point earthquake in a certain place, and you really knew where the exact epicenter was going to be, would you go and stand on the epicenter?
unidentified
Oh, yes.
art bell
And his answer was a very quick yes.
What would yours be?
jim berkland
Yes, no question.
art bell
No question.
jim berkland
I would like to know where the fault was so I had at least I wasn't straddling the fault.
I wouldn't like to do the splits.
unidentified
Right.
art bell
But other than that, you'd stand relatively at the epicenter.
unidentified
Absolutely.
jim berkland
People say, well, are you leaving the state as I will be next week because of this window?
Absolutely not.
I would hate to miss something.
I'm hoping it happens early on before I leave.
art bell
All right.
Now, let me up the ante a little bit.
Would you stand near the epicenter of a seven?
jim berkland
Well, I might be a little more judicious on that.
I see no reason to be right on the epicenter.
I'd like to be half a mile away.
art bell
Yeah, half a mile away.
jim berkland
Okay, I was 20 miles away from the epicenter of the 7.1 World Series quake.
And that's the only quake that ever frightened me.
But ironically, I was just heading out the door.
I was on the seventh floor of the county building here in Santa Clara County in San Jose.
And most of the staff had already left to dash home and watch the game.
And at three minutes after five, I started out, and then I saw the phone, and I said, well, maybe I'll just check with the Berkeley seismographic station to see if my quake has happened yet.
It could have been a five off the end of the county, and I might have missed it.
So I dialed up the numbers, and I was within one or two digits of getting through when the quake struck.
art bell
Oh, brother.
jim berkland
And for about two seconds, I was exultant.
I raised my fist in the air.
I got my quake.
And then I didn't want it because the tiles were undulating and I was crashing all my rock collection and the books in the library tumbling out and the whole floor was shaking and a giant microfilm reader slammed against me and I kept it from sliding on the floor and I was moving back and forth on the counter and my first comment was to anyone that was still left, we've got a major quake here.
Earthquake Probability 00:12:25
jim berkland
This is a seven.
And my second thought was my boss was at Candlestick Park.
And I said, I hope it's closer to here than to Candlestick.
Because if it had been centered by candlestick, that would have really been devastating.
art bell
Well, as it was, it scared the Jabers.
Yes, it certainly did out of people at Candlestick.
jim berkland
And I had tickets for the next day for my son and I.
And we got to go, what, 10 days later after the delay?
And most of the people sitting around us were there for that first occasion.
So I got some very interesting videotape of comments.
art bell
How close are we, do you think, to what everybody calls the big one for California?
jim berkland
Well, for Northern California, I think we're 20 or 30 years away.
The last major quake on the Slova Prieta area was 1865, and it took 41 years before the big one.
But in Southern California, they are far more overdue.
Their last big one was 1857, another 50 years further back in time.
And when that earthquake occurred, it was on the day of the full moon, January 9th, 1857, and the ground moved 30 feet.
That's why I say I'd like not to be straddling the fault line.
30 feet?
unidentified
30 feet.
jim berkland
There was a round sheep corral that was 30 feet in diameter, and after the earthquake, it was the shape of the letter S. Wow.
And It was slightly larger than the 1906 earthquake, probably an 8.4.
art bell
So what would you say when it does come in Southern California?
Gordon Scallion has talked about a gigantic magnitude quake.
jim berkland
See, unprecedented, and that goes beyond the geology.
art bell
Yes.
But within the limits of what you know, what would you expect in Southern California?
jim berkland
Well, it's preferable to have an 8 on the San Andreas out by Palmdale or Palm Springs than a 7 in the Los Angeles basin.
Just because everything is like a bowl of jelly, and there are so many additional fault lines that can be triggered into action.
That's one thing that geologists used to sort of laugh at.
They said, oh, earthquakes are all independent events except for the occasional foreshock and a lot of aftershocks, the big quakes.
We recognize that.
But a quake in Southern California has nothing to do with the big one in Northern California a week later.
unidentified
Right.
art bell
There is, however, the possibility of a domino kind of effect.
jim berkland
Well, yes.
In fact, after the Landers earthquake in 1992, they changed their plans.
In fact, it was delightful to me.
Just minutes after the Landers earthquake, there began to be a series of earthquakes in volcanic centers such as Mammoth Lake and Yellowstone and Lassen and Shasta.
And there was absolutely no mistaking the pattern.
They were triggered by the effect of this Landers earthquake hundreds of miles away.
Of course, just 50 miles away was the Big Bear quake, 6.8.
art bell
How can that be?
jim berkland
Well, a fault line that is ready to fail doesn't need much to nudge it into action.
If you have your palms pushed together with a sheer couple set up between them, you know, it's ready to fail.
And somebody comes and bumps your elbow, it's going to slip.
art bell
That's right.
jim berkland
It doesn't take much.
If you had a dump truck with the sand in there filled up at the angle of repose, about 34 degrees, and it's all tilted up and it isn't sliding yet, and say a fellow on a motorcycle hits it from the side.
It disturbs the equilibrium there.
And it will cause that whole mass to start to slide out of the truck, even though the movement wasn't in the direction of the tilt of the sand, the maximum slope.
art bell
Well, I've heard a lot of talk lately about scientists wanting to put explosives in fault lines.
jim berkland
Yeah, that, in fact, we first heard about that.
I was going to Berkeley, and an engineering mining professor said, well, there's some talk about spot welding the San Andreas with H-bomb.
unidentified
Spot welding it with an H-bomb?
jim berkland
Well, I'm sure that was tongue-in-cheek, but it gave quite a picture.
But then there were some very clear engineering solutions.
I mean, these were written in our journals with complete candor.
We think we can control the San Andreas by putting in steel themed, steel-reinforced concrete beams across it, you know, bury them.
art bell
Girders.
jim berkland
Just like stitches.
Put stitches in the San Andreas.
Or, of course, the Earth would just bypass those stitches quite easily.
Yes.
art bell
Yes, the forces.
Were they really serious about that?
jim berkland
The stitches, yes, they were serious about that one.
art bell
Was there any reason to believe that anything like that could actually be done?
jim berkland
Well, from an engineering standpoint, I've always been asked, what's the difference between what an engineer does and what a geologist does?
And I said, well, I brought it down to this, that a geologist goes out into the hills and listens to the rocks.
An engineer goes out into the hills and tells the rocks what to do.
art bell
All right.
Well, when we come back after the top of the hour, we're going to be on the air, as you must know, there in the Bay Area.
And I don't want to scare anybody.
In fact, we should issue the standard warning that what we're talking about here is a prediction.
unidentified
Yes.
art bell
Even if it's one with a high probability.
And how probable, by the way, you said that was part of the prediction.
How probable are the earthquakes that you're predicting to come in this window?
jim berkland
Well, this window, it gets the highest rating that I've ever gone, 85%.
I did that for the moment for Atoquake Gulf also.
art bell
Really?
85%.
jim berkland
85%.
Because here we have the highest tides of the year.
We have also the animals doing weird things.
We're getting these people reports.
My magnetic stress indicators have been showing strange behavior in the last few days after being stable for several weeks.
art bell
Really?
jim berkland
And I have checked on a few of the springs and haven't gotten positive data on that.
One spring is very pertinent to the Calaveras Fault.
art bell
All right.
Hold it right there, Jim.
We'll be right back to you.
Jim Birkland, the retired California geologist, back in a moment.
unidentified
The trip back in time continues with Ark Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
More Somewhere in Time of New York.
Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast A.M. from June 28th, 1996.
art bell
Good morning across this great land and well beyond worldwide, I guess.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
My guest is retired California geologist Jim Birkland.
And I want to issue the standard warnings right now.
The Bay Area is coming online at this hour.
They know Jim Birkland.
unidentified
You might not, but oh, they know him.
art bell
And you're going to hear some predictions of something that might be a little scary if you are scared by this kind of thing.
Turn your radio off now.
Please.
unidentified
All right, here we go again, and it never fails.
art bell
It never, ever, ever fails.
We're in now an earthquake window.
As of about 10 minutes ago, we are in the biggest earthquake window of the year.
Blue moon time, magnetic influences, the full moon coming up, tidal influences, and lots of other things.
My guest is Jim Birkland, a retired California geologist, who has predicted many, many quakes and rates what he is predicting now in the 85 percentile range, and we'll repeat those predictions in just a moment.
I just received a earthquake alert bulletin from our mutual friend Charles Watson, and it looks another geologist, and it looks very much like there has just been, just now, a 5.9 preliminary magnitude earthquake near the coast of New Guinea.
How about that, Jim?
jim berkland
Well, we get a five, about three fives of day, actually, on average.
For a quick rundown, if people just write down 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, and those are magnitudes, and then alongside the 8, you put a 1.
That's once a year.
A 7, about 10 a year, actually about 14, but 10.
And then 6, about 1,000 of them.
I mean, a hundred of them, a hundred of them, so one every three days.
And for a five, you put down a thousand, so that's three a day.
And for a four, about ten thousand.
So, see, these are really logarithmic.
The energy involved of the earthquakes and the frequency, which is just the opposite.
In fact, your single eight-magnitude quake may have more energy in it than all of the other quakes that we've had experience that year.
art bell
All right, well, the Bay Area is online now, so let's repeat the basic window information: what this special time is we're in right now, why we're in it, and what you predict to occur within it.
jim berkland
Okay, this is what I call a seismic window, and it's the clearest one of the year with the greatest probability of earthquakes in every seismic area.
Well, most seismic areas in the world, there are a few exceptional areas that have their own time periods.
But for most of the world, the window is wide open now and will stay open through the 6th of July.
And the reason it's open is that it's the day before the full moon, the second full moon in a single month, and so that will make it a blue moon.
And the color doesn't really matter, but the fact that the moon is very close to us at this time makes that full moon when it rises on the 30th.
It'll look huge.
And the tides.
art bell
In other words, it's going to be a lot closer.
It's going to look huge because it is huge.
jim berkland
Yes, yes.
It'll be quite a bit larger.
In fact, that's the only time you can get a total solar eclipse is when the moon is close, because it looks bigger and it'll cover the whole face of the sun.
art bell
Right.
jim berkland
But if the moon is two weeks later at apogee, the far point, rather than the near-point perigee, then you will not get a total solar eclipse.
You'll get an annular eclipse with just like a ring of fire all around this hole, like a doughnut.
And because the moon is too far away to cover up the sun at that time.
And it's not nearly as spectacular as the lunar eclipse, the solar full eclipses.
I went to Peru to see the solar eclipse in Peru in 1994 on 11th, November 7th.
And when the guide, the Peruvian guide, brought us to the sacred valley of the Incas, she said, I am so glad you were able to see our eclipse.
We in Peru have a tradition.
We watch the eclipse and then we wait for the earthquake.
And she caught me by surprise.
I said, Would you repeat that again to my video camera, please?
art bell
All right, look, let's get back to it because they want to hear it.
So you've given us a window now through the 6th of July, a particularly dangerous time.
Missing Pets Boom 00:05:02
art bell
And you predict to occur within this time the following: a 3.5 to 6 magnitude earthquake.
jim berkland
And people, you don't necessarily focus on the 6.
You can focus at the lesser.
Within 70 miles, 1 degree of San Jose, within 140 miles of Los Angeles, within 70 miles of Seattle, and somewhere around the Pacific Ring of Fire, expects a major quake, a seven or better.
art bell
And that could be our part of the ring of fire, too.
unidentified
Oh, sure.
jim berkland
Oh, absolutely.
Just like in 1989, I said the same thing: 85% confident that we would have originally I said a 3.5 to 6 magnitude quake within one degree of San Jose.
And then as we approached that critical period of October 14th through 21st, 1989, the highest tidal force in three years, strange things begin to happen.
We begin to have a tremendous number of missing pets.
The lost and found column about quadrupled in length, much as it would after the 4th of July or after a very severe thunderstorm.
Well, we didn't have the 4th of July in October or a thunderstorm here.
And so when I saw the missing cats go from an average of 4 or 5 to 27, and the dogs go from an average of 20 to 58, I knew something was up.
Well, we have that same situation developing now.
The Los Angeles Times yesterday had 58 missing dogs, which is one of the highest totals they've ever had.
And here in San Jose, the Mercury News had a total of 37 missing dogs, which is the highest since Groundhog Day back in February.
art bell
Nice.
jim berkland
And the missing cats are 16, and just five days ago they were at 9.
So this 16 is the highest since just before the 4.8 quake we had that shook my home here back on the 21st of May.
And we had my newsletter, it was at the printers on that very day, and in that June issue of Thezygy, my newsletter, there was a prediction that we would have a five or better in June, July, or August.
Well, it happened to be a 4.8 on May 21st, but I don't feel too badly about that because I think we were going to get a little more.
art bell
All right.
Well, this is with high confidence.
You're saying that on the West Coast, even if we don't get the big one that's going to occur somewhere on the Ring of Fire, it's going to be boom, boom, boom.
jim berkland
Yes.
I had a call from Tacoma that the Tacoma paper classified section had 38 missing pets, and just about five days ago it was down at 15.
So something drove the animals out.
And everyone's going to have a beautiful object lesson wherever you live in the country and wherever you celebrate the 4th of July.
Because you may not have any quakes around.
But if you have the noise and excitement of the 4th of July, you'll find your dogs going bonkers.
And they will go running blindly away, sometimes out into the traffic or up into the hills and may run 20 or 30 miles.
And you may never see them again.
Or you may find them at the pound.
Or you may find that some neighbor has come across them.
And some small percentage of people that lose their pets will go spend the $30 or $40 required to get an ad in the newspaper.
And so when you actually see the missing pets go from, say, a total of 30 to 90 or 100, you're looking at 90 or 100,000 advances.
Absolutely.
art bell
Absolutely.
Absolutely correct.
Yes.
All right.
You've got to remember, we've got listeners coast to coast and way beyond.
Alaskans all across Alaska were heard, even in the Midwest.
Here's the facts.
Dear Art, please ask Ms. Berkeley, does he see any possibility of this particular quake window through the 8th of July affecting the central U.S., the new Madrid Fault and so forth?
jim berkland
Yes.
There is probably a 25% chance there because they don't have as many quakes as we get here.
art bell
It's just that when they get them, it's not good.
jim berkland
Well, the big one in 1812 was on the day after the new moon on December 16th of 1812.
And that indicates the idea works there too because you don't need the ocean tides.
The solid Earth moves up and down too under the gravitational stress of the sun and moon.
Not the stars and planets.
I don't use those at all because they have less than one-thousandth the effect.
Jupiter and Venus have about one-thousandth the gravitational effect that the moon has.
art bell
So then what about these people that talk about when all the planets align?
That means nothing.
jim berkland
The Jupiter effect is ineffectual, and it was shown to be so back in 1984 or whenever that was supposed to be.
Seward's Silent Seagulls 00:02:20
jim berkland
But the big Alaskan quake, 8.4 on Good Friday of 1964 was on the day of the full moon.
And it occurred when the Cook Inlet was extremely low tide.
The tide varied 35 feet.
And it was at the time of day when it was extremely low.
And that differential stress probably helped to trigger that quake.
It would have happened anyway in a few days or weeks, but the actual extreme tides helped to pick that day.
And on that day at Seward, I had a call from a lady who said, stick with what you're doing.
I was in Seward, and there were no seagulls flying over the waterfront.
They all disappeared.
And there were rats and mice running around in the streets in the daytime.
art bell
All right, and before people think you've totally lost your mind, there's good science behind this.
In other words, animals, as do people, by the way, have a little area.
Identify that for us again, if you would.
Different animals and humans, I guess, of magnetic influence in their head.
unidentified
Yes.
jim berkland
Magnetite is the black sand that's mainly in your gold pan when you're panning for gold.
art bell
Yes.
jim berkland
It weathers out of all kinds of rocks.
And it's the most highly magnetic natural substance on Earth.
It's just Fe304.
Three parts iron to four of oxygen.
And the iron is in two different electrical states, in a valence state.
And it's the valence electron that jumps back and forth from orbit to orbit that makes this magnetic effect.
And so animals make it for mainly navigational purposes.
Even ancient Cambrian life called chitons, primitive sea life, had magnetite in their teeth.
And that not only is it a very hard mineral, but it also might allow them to feed in parallel paths rather than bumping into each other and fighting over every scrap of algae that they're feeding on.
Strange Feelings Before Quakes 00:08:21
art bell
All right.
Let me tell you what I've got here.
I, first of all, I wasn't going to say anything about this, but I woke up with a horrible, horrible splitting headache today.
jim berkland
Oh, boy.
art bell
And I've got already 20, 25 faxes here.
Here's Ron from Birmingham, woke up with a horrible headache.
Oh, boy.
Here's Mark and Susie in La Grande Oregon, woke up with a strange feeling, nauseated, out of balance.
I could go on and on and on.
I thought about it.
I don't know how many years.
So we're sort of right in the middle of this.
jim berkland
Well, a very responsible assistant is associated with what I've been doing for some years.
She gives me the daily lost and found column from the Los Angeles Times.
She woke up this morning feeling very ill.
She couldn't go to work on the regular schedule.
They told her not to come in at all, but I think she went in the afternoon.
And there are many, many people that report these things.
And usually they're very reluctant to discuss it in the open.
It's just a family thing, and they're the butt of jokes.
art bell
Yes, I don't know.
jim berkland
But they know that I've been through those things, and so they confide in me.
And then when they find out they're not alone in the world, that there are a lot of people with these same symptoms, then it's very reassuring to them.
Now, the first time I ever heard about it, and each of these things I get into rather reluctantly, you know, I'm a scientist, and so I have this skepticism sort of built in.
But then I want to see what happens, and so I'm willing to test things.
And so this lady called me from New Brunswick, Canada, where she said she was a native New Brunswicker.
Actually, the first contact was by letter about a week after they had a 5.9 quake on the day of the eclipse of the moon on January 9th, 1982.
And since my wife is from eastern Canada, I sort of an affinity there.
And she heard me on a local station because Stan Friedman, whom you know well, had a science radio show back there.
He just moved into Fredericton, and he knew that their quake fit my theory.
And so they called me from the radio station, did I predict their quake?
Well, I said, no, I predicted the window, but I didn't know what was happening locally there to actually pin down your area as likely.
Well, what do you mean?
I said, well, like the water well changes and the radon gas and the tilt of the ground and any creeping faults and Animal activity, and she said, That sounds interesting.
Do you mind if I roll the tape?
And I said, No, go right ahead.
She said, Just a moment.
Oh, oh, oh, oh, my God, not another one.
And she had a 5.5 magnitude quake while she was on the phone with me.
And I thought, what are the chances you have a transcontinental call, and the 5.5 hits, and the epicenter is on the east end of that call.
unidentified
Unusual.
art bell
Very unlikely, yeah.
jim berkland
So it went on the going home show that night.
And so 10 days later, I got this letter out of the blue.
Mr. Berkel said, Sonia Kudiback, and I've lost her totally.
I hope she contacts me again sometime.
She said, I'm a native New Brunswicker.
I'm a school teacher.
And I heard you talking about what animals get.
I hope you can explain what happened to me.
Otherwise, I feel I'm losing my mind.
I've never had any kind of sinus problem.
And I've also never felt an earthquake before.
But four days before that jolt, my head began to stuff up, and I got a tremendous headache that aspirin couldn't touch.
I was hyperactive.
I couldn't even stay seated at luncheon with some teacher friends two days before the quake.
The day before the quake, I felt compelled to clean my house from top to bottom.
And I'm normally quite content to leave books on the dustballs and the dishes in the sink and go to my studio and paint.
But she was driven like maybe a pregnant woman was before giving birth.
Has to make the nest right for something that's coming.
The next day, she went to bed without supper that night.
Next morning, tried to get up early, couldn't.
She said, I lay back on the bed, and suddenly, as if passing over a mountain peak, why the pressure disappeared and the pain disappeared.
And as I marveled at this first return to normalcy, the first tremors hit.
Now, that was on a Saturday.
The next day, she felt pretty good, and then towards the evening, it began to stuff up again, the headache came, and the next day was this 5.5 aftershock that hit when I was on the phone.
art bell
Why do you think that the pressure is relieved before the quake is felt?
jim berkland
Well, that is kind of an interesting point.
I know sometimes you get the symptoms without the actual rupture.
Right.
But why you would suddenly have a pause just before the actual event?
It's like, well, the animals are often quite noisy until just before the quake.
Birds and insects and everything quiet down.
It's an eerie stillness just before a significant quake.
I've heard this report from many, many people.
And so it's like you're just gathering yourself for the effort.
art bell
I doubt this relates, but I am told that people who are dying just before actual death have a moment of total clarity, total lucidity.
Have you heard that?
jim berkland
Yes, they often make their last statement about what they're seeing or something or saying goodbye to their family.
Yes, that's interesting.
That's an interesting analogy.
art bell
I don't know if it relates at all, but I just have to think of that when you were describing that.
Well, what we're going to do, I hope, is to be taking calls here shortly.
unidentified
Please.
art bell
And what people will do when we take calls is they will ask you about their area inevitably, selfishly, wanting to know.
And I don't blame them a bit, so I'm going to get the jump on them.
I happen to live out here in southern Nevada.
I live about 65 miles west of Las Vegas, about eight miles from the California border, not far from what's called Area 51.
And I think I live in a pretty cool earthquake-proof place.
But I don't, do I?
jim berkland
That's why Yucca Mountain was selected as a site for the nuclear waste depository site.
It's never to expect any quake of greater than five magnitude.
And then after the Landersquake, about four days after, they had a 5.6.
art bell
So, where I am, what could I expect?
Am I in a relatively safe place?
jim berkland
Well, if you get close to bedrock, that's usually a better situation.
Certainly, in 1954, you had a couple of middle-seven magnitude earthquakes there.
Not too far from Fallon.
I mean, that's well to the north of you, but certainly felt them down your way.
Nevada is one of the shakier states.
It's right up there with Washington.
You have to put Alaska first and California second, Hawaii third.
art bell
Really?
Hawaii third, really?
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
jim berkland
Yeah, because of all the volcanic activity.
They've had some eight-magnitude quakes in Hawaii?
Oh, yes.
art bell
When?
unidentified
Well, see, I think it was 1862.
art bell
Holy mackerel.
jim berkland
Oh, it killed a couple hundred people there.
art bell
An eight-magnitude quake in the islands, wouldn't it?
jim berkland
Yeah, on the big island.
That's about the only place that's still shaking really strongly.
art bell
Well, I know, but wouldn't something like that potentially produce a tsunami?
jim berkland
Oh, it could.
A tsunami requires up and down motion on the seafloor.
So the San Andreas Fault isn't going to give you much of a tsunami.
It's like if you have a big dishpan full of water and there's a dish, a big platter in the bottom, if you pick the platter up by the edge and just slip it out, nothing happens.
If you pick it up straight, it's going to make up the water well over the top.
I've got you.
art bell
All right.
Stay put.
We'll be right back to you.
And your calls, Jim Birkland, back in a moment.
unidentified
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
We take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Jim Birkland's Seismic Window 00:15:21
art bell
Can you feel it?
unidentified
The hairs on the back of your neck.
A little bit more paper than usual, sort of tense.
art bell
Maybe a headache.
Well, we're in a window.
unidentified
A big one.
art bell
My guest is retired California geologist Jim Birkland.
And we'll tell you a little more about Jim Berkland in a moment.
Now to Jim Berkland, who is, in fact, a retired California geologist.
Actually, was employed by a county in California.
He'll tell you all about it in a moment because I'm going to read him a facts, many nice facts, but I will choose this one just to bring Jim out.
Jim Birkeland is a blow hard, signed a real geologist.
No name, but signed a real geologist.
You are a real geologist, aren't you, Jim?
jim berkland
Oh, yes.
I felt a little tee under my mattress last night.
art bell
Why don't you tell people what a few of the societies that you belong to, where you were educated, that sort of thing.
jim berkland
Yes, I got my bachelor's in geology at the University of California, Berkeley.
And I worked six years with the U.S. Geological Survey.
Then I went back to school to get my master's in geology at San Jose State University.
And then I worked for five years with the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation as an engineering geologist.
And then I went back to school to work on my doctorate at UC Davis.
I worked three years and did everything but pass my orals and did everything but complete my dissertation.
I had a 250-page dissertation, which I brought with me to my teaching back at Appalachian State University.
And so many other activities and exciting things developed, but I never completed that part of my work.
And then I accepted the role as the first county geologist in Santa Clara County.
And I did teach one class in engineering geology to San Jose State University.
I've published more than 50 scientific papers.
But interestingly, when I tried to publish on earthquakes and seismic windows, I find the critics refusing to accept them for publication.
art bell
Yes, well, I have a feeling the facts are here, unsigned, other than a real geologist, is one of your critics.
jim berkland
Well, I'm a fellow in the Geological Society of America.
I've been a member since 1959.
And I am a member of the Seismological Society of America, the Earthquake Engineering Research Institute, the Peninsula Geological Society, the American Association for the Advancement of Science.
And I founded the Sabre Society, which was an inner professional group that operated for about 18 years here based at San Jose State University.
I take my science very seriously.
And I find that if you close your mind, you're no longer a scientist.
art bell
All right.
I've got a lot of calls here.
A lot of people want to talk to you, so let us go to the lines.
First time caller line, you are on the air with Jim Berkeland.
Hi, where are you, please?
unidentified
Hi, I'm Casey from Modesto, California.
art bell
Modesto, all right?
unidentified
Yeah, I've noticed something strange.
I was sitting outside just a few minutes ago, and I heard a lot of birds singing.
Uh-huh.
And also, I was wondering, is that any sign or anything?
art bell
At this time of night?
jim berkland
It's fairly unusual.
If you haven't heard it before, then you would say it's abnormal.
That's it.
What may be normal for a pet?
You know, my pet is crazy all the time.
My cat is crazy all the time.
I said, well, if it starts acting normal, then look out.
It's acting differently.
art bell
So in other words, whatever is abnormal.
jim berkland
Yes.
Yes.
art bell
All right.
Very good.
Wildcard line, you're on the air with Jim Birkland.
Good morning.
unidentified
Good morning.
This is Dave from Avila Beach, California.
art bell
Hi, Dad.
unidentified
You've had some really interesting guests on lately.
art bell
Thank you.
unidentified
Really appreciate it.
I grew up near the San Andreas Fall at North End, San Bernardino.
And then at age 13, I moved to Alaska and commercial fish in Prince Williamstown and seen a lot of the destruction, the aftermath from the 64 earthquake.
And I have a question.
I'm still in the fishing industry.
I live here in Avalok Beach, fairly close to Parkfield.
And I was wondering, is there any changes in regards to sea mammals or fish before an earthquake?
jim berkland
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
For example, in the three weeks prior to our Loma Prieta quake at Ocean Beach in San Francisco, there were two beaked whales, baby beaked whales, that washed ashore.
And these things were about nine feet long.
They were alive, and they'd never seen live ones before.
Extremely rare.
They brought them over to Marine World and they tried to give them ground-up fish food and they were trying to nurse from the fingers of the keepers.
And so they realized these were younger than they thought, and they brought in milk, and they survived for just a couple of weeks.
But they died, I believe, before the earthquake itself.
While these rare beasts were being taken care of at Marine World, another rare pygmy sperm whale washed up to Santa Cruz Beach.
And that they brought down to the Monterey Aquarium, where they were taking care of that.
That did last past the time of the earthquake.
But just the existence and the washing up of these critters alive would have been newsworthy even if the quake hadn't followed.
So the strongest quake since 1906 in the Bay Area is accompanied by this extremely rare marine mammal beaching.
The worst case of marine mammal beaching in the history of California was in late January of 1971.
And do you know what happened on February 9th of 1971 on the day of the eclipse of the moon?
We got the San Fernando earthquake.
And there were 200 dolphins that had beached on San Clemente Island in late January.
unidentified
Wow.
jim berkland
Right.
unidentified
He's right.
I live close to a nuclear power plant, too.
I'm kind of concerned about that.
art bell
Oh, that's an awfully good question.
Jim, what can you tell us about the nuclear plants?
And in other words, have they been built well enough that if an eight-pointer touches off somewhere in Southern California, the plant's going to stay in one piece, or what do you know about that?
jim berkland
Well, I could say I hope so.
You remember when they completed that plant and they assured us that it had been designed for like a seven-magnitude quake?
art bell
Yes.
jim berkland
And then they discovered another fault offshore that was capable of an eight.
art bell
I know, they're always discovering new faults.
jim berkland
And then they also discovered that the plumbing had been installed on a mirror image rather than the way it was supposed to be.
They had to go back and revise everything.
It was completed.
They had to go back in and tear it up and rebuild it the way the plans were supposed to be.
So, you know, it's a good idea to be skeptical no matter what the source of information.
I hope that people are skeptical about what I'm saying.
But then wait and see what happens.
art bell
But again, for what you are predicting, the boom, boom, boom, along the west coast, that is you're predicting that with about an 85% probability of occurring.
jim berkland
Yeah.
art bell
And that's within the next eight days, yes.
jim berkland
For example, the highest tidal force in the history of the world since 1600 to the year 2200.
It's in a book by Dr. Fergus Wood, a former relief with the East Coast and Geodetic Survey, and it became the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.
Anyway, is a genius and the master meteorologist, oceanographer, and geophysicist anyway.
This book shows all of my seismic windows.
And I didn't run across it until about 1979 after I've been doing it for five years.
So in that book, he described the strongest tidal force that in this 600-year period has occurred on January 4th, 1912.
So as soon as I saw that date, guess what the first thing I did?
Went to the earthquake records.
And in the U.S. earthquake book published every few years by the Department of Interior, they had listed for 1912, 1913 only two quakes for California, Nevada.
One was in December of 1912, down near Oxnard, about a five.
But the stronger quake, the strongest in two years in two states, was near Bishop, about a 5.5.
It was felt strongly in Fresno and Bakersfield.
And that was on January 4th, 1912, the day of the maximum tidal force in 600 years.
And so I brought this information to my friends at the USGS, and they said, Jim, haven't you heard of coincidence?
And I said, yes, I've also heard of corroborative evidence.
art bell
And yes, I mean, after all, Jim, you've been doing this so long now, so long now, that it is science.
I mean, how can they deny that it's science?
jim berkland
Well, when they say I'm lucky, then I say, well, isn't lucky rather a mystical concept?
art bell
Mystical indeed.
In other words, science is nothing if it is not repeatability.
And if you can demonstrate that, then I don't see how they, well, I guess I do see it.
jim berkland
They have a different agenda.
And so often they will say, we can't lend any credibility to this work because other people have looked at it and they failed to find any correlation between tides and quakes.
Well, they are unfamiliar with the 300 articles in the world literature over the last 30 years or so.
In fact, two scientists in 1983 in the journal Nature noted that the pattern of larger earthquakes in Southern California seemed to be that there would be stronger quakes, six magnitude or better, around the time of the nodal point of the moon every 19.6 years.
Now, the nodal point is when it's as high in the sky as it can get, and so it's exerting the greatest gravity at this latitude.
art bell
Yes.
jim berkland
And in 1983, in July, in that issue, they projected ahead to November of 87, four years later, when would be the next nodal point.
And they said we expect there will be a six on the San Andreas system in Southern California around November of 87.
Well, on October 1st of 87, not quite November, the strongest quake since 1982 hit, and that was at Twittier.
First given a 6.1 and later lowered to about a 5.9.
So they'd say, well, it didn't make a six.
Besides, it wasn't on the San Andreas proper.
Well, then on November 23rd of 1987, I was working in my office on the seventh floor of the Santa Clara County building.
I noticed that my pendulum, just a carpenter's plumb bob on about a five-foot cat gut extending from the ceiling, it was swaying about two inches.
And everybody was leaving around dusk.
And I said, look at that.
It was doing that same thing back in 1979 when they had the six and a half magnitude quake down in Brawley.
And sure enough, it was the Superstition Hills fault that cut loose with a 6.3 near dusk, just as predicted by Drs. Kanopoff and Steve Kilston, the astronomer, in their article.
And the next morning, near dawn, as predicted by them, a 6.8 followed.
So they got two quakes in November of 87, predicted four years in advance.
And Steve Kilston, the astronomer, was elated, and I've heard him speak.
I sat in the audience and heard him talking about syzygies and perigees and perihelions and saying the U.S. Geological Survey won't return my calls.
And then Dr. Konophoff had an interesting reaction.
He's an emeritus professor of seismology at UCLA.
A world reputation to uphold.
And after the quake, he was quoted as saying, I've just spent the last four years trying to convince my colleagues I hadn't actually predicted a quake and the damn thing happened.
art bell
All right, here you go.
Here's another one.
East of the Rockies.
You're on the air with Jim Berkland.
Where are you, please?
unidentified
Traverse City, Michigan.
art bell
Welcome to the show.
jim berkland
I remember a Sunday morning episode with Charles Osgood about a lady who was documenting hot springs raisers.
unidentified
Yes, yes.
jim berkland
Olga Kolbeck up here in Calastoga.
I know her very well.
And another gentleman that had sort of radio signals, a headache or something a few days before, or a week before a quake would occur.
Uh-huh.
Well, also I wanted to ask Art if he was at on Okinawa, trying to remember, 75, 74.
art bell
Yeah, I went through some whiz-bangers there, sir.
Yeah, you bet.
I was working, Jim, at a radio station, KSBK, in Naha, Okinawa.
You know where Okinawa is.
And we had a microphone, you know, one of those old RCA ribbon microphones.
It's a big mic.
And it was hung from the ceiling by a tripod.
In other words, three wires that came down from the ceiling and held the mic right in front of us.
And I'll tell you, you get some big earthquakes over there.
jim berkland
You lose some teeth.
art bell
And I was, oh, that's right.
I was on the air, and I watched this microphone take off toward the wall, which was about 45 feet away, and head back toward me.
And I screamed and ducked, and I would have knocked my teeth out.
You know, I just got down on the floor and rode that one out.
So I've been through some pretty big ones.
jim berkland
Well, when the 6.2 Morgan Hill quake hit, my plumb bob began to sort of box the compass.
It swung further and further towards the window.
And it actually began to touch the window.
And so I shouldn't have gotten next to the plate glass, but I did.
And I cushioned it and brought it back to a resting point.
And it continued to then build up the swing again, but never got as far as the window.
But Mike, my colleague said, well, I'm sure glad you took it so easy, because I'd have been scared if we hadn't been next to you.
unidentified
All right.
Here we go again.
art bell
West of the Rockies.
You're on the air with Jim Birkeland.
Hi.
unidentified
Good morning, gentlemen.
art bell
Good morning.
unidentified
I am a geologist.
I've been in the oil business and have worked in California primarily for the last 20 years.
art bell
Where are you now, Bob?
unidentified
I'm living in Golden, Colorado, listening to KHOW.
Okay.
And you do make my day job kind of tough to get to, Art.
art bell
Sorry about that.
jim berkland
That's okay.
unidentified
Anyway, I have three questions.
But a comment first, just a little additional piece of corroborative evidence to support your tidal theory.
Throughout California, I have done some geophysical measurements with gravity meters.
And, you know, just to corroborate your theory on it, the effect that the tidal forces have, we do have to correct for the tidal forces in our gravity meters because gravity is not a constant.
California Retired Geologist's Insights 00:09:27
unidentified
But that's just one little piece of evidence that adds to your theory.
My main questions are this.
The San Andrea tectonics have occurred really for the last 29, 30 million years based on the evidence.
jim berkland
Yes.
unidentified
Throughout the world, of course, it's a multi-billion-year-old cycle.
Do you have any theories that vary much from the general thinking in the geologic community towards plate tectonics and how they affect the movement or how the mantle movement affects the movement of the plates?
And then the second question that I have is, and I'll listen off the air.
Are you familiar with Lawrence Livermore's attempts to drill about a 50,000-foot well in the Carrizo Valley within a half a mile of the San Andreas Fault, stopping every thousand meters or so to drill a horizontal lateral 3,000 to 4,000 feet through the fault zone, continuously coring?
jim berkland
No, I just was aware of what they're doing up in the Tehachapes.
And it was interesting that when they drilled down about over 5,000 feet, they got water samples, expecting it might be juvenile water coming up from below.
And from the isotopic analysis, it turned out to be meteoric water.
It was rainwater that has filtered its way down, which helps to explain why landslides will develop often after the heaviest rainfall, maybe a month or so, as the water percolates down to the slide plane.
The same thing with earthquakes.
And that's why I was telling people up in the northwest.
They had their record, 100-year floods here this last winter.
art bell
That's right.
jim berkland
And I said, oh, boy, these high tide periods coming up towards summer look to be extremely important.
And sure enough, the biggest quake in 31 years did hit on the 2nd of May.
Same way in Landers in 1992, there were tremendous floods in Southern California, and twice the Los Angeles River lived up to its name, was a raging torrent.
You may remember the poignant scene of this.
This young boy, Hispanic kid, was swept down in the current, and the fireman reached over from an overpass and tried to grab his hand, and he slipped free and he drowned.
Well, it was just two months later when the Landers quake hit on June 28th, just two days before the eclipse of the sun.
art bell
All right.
We don't have a lot of time for the top of the hour, but he wanted to ask you about mantle movement and tectonic theory.
jim berkland
Well, I'm not a geophysicist nor a seismologist, and I'm willing to accept that the plates are driven by plumes, heat plumes, coming up from deep down in the lower mantle.
And they come up like in a heated pot of soup.
They form currents that come up and they drive the surface material apart.
And that's constantly placed up in the center, and it goes back down at the edges.
And that is analogous to what happens in the Kilauea fire pit.
They've got a lot of photographs of the kind of mechanism that's been proposed for the plates.
We know when new material comes up, it must go someplace, otherwise, the Earth would be expanding constantly, and then it fit in nicely.
That's where the trenches are, and that's where the oceanic plates are driven down beneath the continental plates in most cases, and create the deeper and deeper earthquakes as you go away from the oceans and deep under the continents.
But at the international meeting of the Geological Society in Montreal in 1972, I raised a question that's never been answered by anybody.
You have to, we're given the plate tectonic theory as a given mechanism.
It's already in operation, but it has to start somewhere.
Did it start with the trenches or did it start with the ridges?
The new material coming up, or the old material sort of going down and dragging the plates with them?
Right.
Well, I think it actually began with the heat, the convection driving up and creating the ridges.
Well, then the Earth's lithosphere, the upper mantle and the crust, can accept an awful lot of compression.
And through a few million years, even a thousand feet of plate can accept this compression.
And then it has to go somewhere.
And so then a trench must be initiated, if this is the right order.
And when it's initiated, it must be an horrendous event.
Just suddenly, whoosh, and you might create a very large earthquake at such a point.
art bell
All right, there's a couple things.
We're breaking here at the top of the hour.
We've got news, but it begs a million questions.
Do you know of a fellow named Stan Deo down in Australia?
jim berkland
Oh, yeah.
art bell
You know, Stan.
unidentified
All right.
art bell
We're going to talk about Stan.
You mentioned heat plumes, and Stan Deo's name came to mind immediately.
So, rest.
We'll be back to you in a few moments, Jim.
jim berkland
Very good.
art bell
California retired geologist Jim Birkland is my guest.
unidentified
The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
More Somewhere in Time coming up.
Somewhere in Time.
Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from the 28th of June, 1996, my guest is retired geologist, California geologist Jim Birkland.
art bell
People on the West Coast know Jim Birkland very, very well because of years and years of accurate predictions of earthquakes.
We are now about a little better than an hour into a big window.
Next few days, next week or so.
It's a big window, folks.
Jim Birkland says there are going to be three earthquakes here on the West Coast: LA area, San Francisco area, and up in Washington.
He'll tell you all about them in a moment.
For those just joining us this hour, we'll try and repeat some of the info.
We'll get back to it and Jim in just a moment.
Jim Birkland.
I want to remind everybody there is a photograph of my wild cat, my wild comet, on my webpage now.
You can see it.
Everybody's asking me to put up a photograph of Comet.
So there he is on the webpage.
And this morning's guest, Jim Birkland, while he doesn't have a webpage there, we found a number of references to Jim Berkeland and earthquakes.
And so we put links in from my webpage, of course, with Keith Rowland right on top of it.
unidentified
Boom, boom, boom.
art bell
We've got those links in.
So if you want to know more about Jim Berkeland, you should visit my webpage.
That is www.artbell.com.
www.artbell.com.
Back now we go to Jim Berkland.
jim berkland
Jim.
unidentified
Yes, sir.
jim berkland
You mentioned the books on tape, and it made me reminded me that I'm a life member of our Lions Blind Center.
And every month I record my Syzygy newsletter for the Blind Center.
art bell
Excellent.
jim berkland
And, you know, another little thing that makes me feel good that people are paying attention to what I'm saying.
art bell
Well, look, I haven't even let you plug it, so let's plug your newsletter.
How do people get what?
Is it a monthly?
jim berkland
Yes.
unidentified
All right.
How do they?
jim berkland
You send me a self-addressed stamped envelope.
I must say, after the 5.1 quake hit Seattle last year, in January, just after I predicted on their television or radio, I got over 2,000 letters.
And so I must beg people to send a self-addressed stamped envelope, and I'll be happy to send them a back issue.
art bell
Now, you be careful.
And I'm going to tell you why to be careful.
I just had Daniel Brinkley on.
He offered to sign some books that he was selling.
He had 5,000 books.
unidentified
5,000.
jim berkland
Well, I can handle 5,000.
art bell
You can handle 5,000.
jim berkland
Yes.
I have a lot of newsletters left over.
Well, you better have every month.
art bell
You better have.
And you really send them a copy, huh?
jim berkland
I sure will.
art bell
Free of charge.
Boy, are you going to be doing a lot of stuff in that envelope?
jim berkland
Well, there's nothing like your show.
I've really been wanting to be on your show for a couple of years.
art bell
Well, people have been bugging me for a couple of years, and I don't know why it took me this long to get it done, but I had several calls about you the other day, and so it just all came together.
Utah's Faulty Debate 00:05:39
jim berkland
Well, perfect timing with this window, the transparent window that just opened at midnight.
art bell
All right, we will, yeah, that's about an hour and 15 minutes ago, West Coast Time.
We'll tell everybody about that again because we had a lot of stations just join us top of this hour.
We're in a big window.
It's a big, strange time we're in right now.
We'll tell you about it in a moment.
Phone calls waiting.
Let's get to these first.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Jim Berklund.
unidentified
Hi.
Hi there.
All right.
art bell
Where are you?
unidentified
I'm in Colorado, the lovely state of Colorado.
And I've got a couple of questions for you guys here.
One, I spent several years working at a major insurance company doing homeowners' insurance.
We worked with the state of Utah, and you know, there's a fault that runs through Utah and up into Colorado.
jim berkland
Was that fault is really probably the most hazardous fault in the United States.
unidentified
Really, that's what I was going to ask you, because I know during our training and during certain times of the year, we were always taught that the longer a fault stays, it builds up tension.
jim berkland
The longer the wait, the bigger the quake.
unidentified
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I was just wondering what would be the conditions to have that hit right.
I know we've felt some, like in southern Colorado, when they've had minor ones along the Wasatch Fault further.
jim berkland
I thought you were especially ripe back in 1982, 83, when the Salt Lake was filling rapidly and spilling out into the Great Salt Desert, the Bonneville Salt Let's, because you were unloading the mountains, the snow was melting and coming down and filling the valley, loading the valley, and the mountains are moving up and the valley is dropping down along the Wasatch Fault.
And this was abetting that.
This was helping it.
Now, it hasn't had a major earthquake on that fault since probably 1600, something.
And that was at the end of what's called the Little Ice Age, when there was a lot more precipitation.
And I'm sure Lake Bonneville was at a higher stand at that time, too.
So it may have had an effect then, but it didn't seem to have much of an effect this time.
There was about a five-magnitude quake out by the airport there in 1982, in I think September.
And that may be all that.
See, the maximum stresses, whatever you impose on a fault line, if the fault line's not ready to fail, and it can only yield the energy that's stored up on it.
So if you've just had a big earthquake on a fault and you happen to have the greatest tides in a thousand years, you're not going to get a great earthquake.
It's already been relieved.
So I'm not concerned, for example, about the southern San Andreas Fault in the South Peninsula of this area.
unidentified
Yeah, because it releases pretty regularly.
jim berkland
Yeah.
unidentified
It's cleared its throat.
And one last question.
Sure.
My mother works at the Mental Health Institute here in town, and she's always saying it gets pretty particularly scary right around the full moon.
jim berkland
Yes, you talk to sheriffs and medical people, maternity wards.
art bell
Talk show hosts.
jim berkland
Yeah?
art bell
Yeah, hey, believe me.
Believe me, believe me, Jim.
I've been doing this for 12 years now, this program, in the all-night portion particularly.
And I'm telling you, I'm telling you, that at a full moon, things get really, really, really weird.
jim berkland
I'll try to get hold of that book by Dr. Arnold Lieber.
It came out about 15 years ago.
It's called The Lunar Effect.
art bell
Yes.
jim berkland
A very small, not a very large book, but full of information.
And he ran into the same problems I have.
He was saying as Day County, Florida psychologist, he had access to all of their suicides, for example.
Yes.
And he found a tremendous correlation with the phase of the moon, especially full moon.
And as soon as he published on it, he was attacked rather viciously by his colleagues.
And it turns out they weren't even arguing about what he was doing.
They were arguing about what they were doing.
They were arguing about the time of death of the victim rather than the time of the attack.
The death is sort of random, sometimes drags out for months.
But the attack time is what was critical, and they were analyzing the wrong end of the situation.
And he had a chapter in there about the Earth and the geophysical environment.
Some articles about the quakes.
Here's something that relates directly to the moon.
When the astronauts landed on the moon, about the first three times, they put seismographs there.
And we established without any question there are lunar quakes.
There are moonquakes.
And they occur almost all at the time of the monthly perigee when the Earth's gravity is strongest because you're closest to the moon.
And when I first heard about that about 1976, and I'd only been at my studies for two years at that point, after I go, here's great corroboration.
Again, I hear, well, come on.
The Earth is 81 times as massive as the Moon.
So it's easy to see how the Earth's gravity could trigger moonquakes, but you couldn't turn that around.
And I said, come on.
Now, the Moon doesn't have a liquid core.
It doesn't have moving plates.
It doesn't have active volcanoes that we know about.
The Earth has all of those.
So if you had the Earth is like a growing baby, and the moon is like an old man.
If you had this baby and an old man lying on a cot side by side and you stroked each of their soles of their feet with a feather, where would you get this reaction?
JPL Printout Revelation 00:13:57
art bell
Yes, exactly.
All right.
Wildcard line, you're on the air with Jim Birkland.
unidentified
Hello.
Hi, it's Diana in Los Angeles.
art bell
Hi.
unidentified
Arn, you do wonderfully incisive programs about subjects that are hard to find, except maybe for the learning channel on TV.
And I've heard Jim before.
And actually, tonight, I want to bring up something that might be startling.
Actually, after the time of the earthquake, friends who are subscribers to JPL.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
94.
Friends who were subscribers to JPL got a printout, and the printout showed that actually we don't have to worry about the San Andreas Fault.
We've already been through the big one.
The moment-to-moment 250 zip code aspects on the JPL printout showed that San Fernando actually lacked the honor.
They had a 9.6 moment magnitude, and Northridge had 9.5, 9.4, 9.3.
Sherman Oaks, Van Nuys, had 8.3 to 8.4.
Up in the hills of Sherman Oaks and Encino was 8.3.
On the other side of the hill, with, say, lax, Santa Monica was like 5.5 to 6.
Century City, Beverly Hills, was 6.6.
Hollywood was 6.6 to 6.
art bell
All right, all right.
We have the idea.
Allow him to respond to this.
jim berkland
What you're giving me are the intensity numbers, usually given in Roman numerals.
And they vary from place to place, but each earthquake has only one magnitude, one energy.
How many sticks of dynamite was it equivalent to?
But the effects are which side of the brick wall were you on?
How far away were you from the explosion?
So there is an infinite number of intensities.
And it varies usually upon your local geologic setting and the type of structure you're in.
But all those numbers you gave me were not, you know, the world has never experienced a nine Richter magnitude, as far as we know.
unidentified
The Lisbon quake of 1755 is about 8.9.250 zip codes.
That's the way it's done now.
So if you don't want to have the federal government pay over an 8.0 for people's damage, regardless of how wealthy they are, and excerpt them from paying taxes in the year that an 8.0 happened, then you're going to pick the lowest magnitude.
And fortunately, the goal was 6.6.
art bell
All right, we get it.
Well, that sounds like a conspiracy theory regarding insurance companies.
Yeah, it really does, doesn't it?
But there have not been.
What would happen, Jim, if an eight-point I mean, she was wielding numbers around there.
If an eight-point earthquake occurred in the Los Angeles basin area somewhere there, what would it do?
jim berkland
Well, it depends on the type of fault.
And if it's a thrust fault like the Northridge quake, it's usually worse on the upper plate where a massive rocks are moving up and over the lower plate, a gently sloping surface.
And if it's a strike-slip fault, it's usually a neater earthquake, a cleaner bundle of energy.
And as I mentioned, you don't get tsunamis from the sideways motions.
But it's very difficult to anticipate.
Like the epicenter of Loma Prieta was 60 miles away from the Lipka.
art bell
Let me try it this way.
You remember the earthquake, the big one in Alaska?
jim berkland
Sure.
art bell
If that earthquake occurred in Los Angeles, what would be the results?
jim berkland
Well, probably 10,000 deaths.
art bell
10,000 dead?
The buildings?
jim berkland
In fact, even the nice steel and concrete buildings that we put so much faith in failed in many places from Northridge.
It's caused a re-evaluation of our whole safety program down there.
art bell
As a matter of fact, the Japanese were very pompous about their building techniques.
jim berkland
Kobe.
art bell
In Kobe, indeed, they claim that, why, we've built earthquake-proof buildings and they went down like tin bins.
jim berkland
It can't happen here.
We've heard that before, yeah.
art bell
And it did.
unidentified
Yes.
jim berkland
Yeah.
Again, skepticism is the word of the day.
Every earthquake is unique, and every earthquake is a learning experience.
And our safety measures are about 10 years behind Mother Nature.
We came up with the Field Act, which in California is probably the single greatest safety act on seismic matters that ever occurred.
And it followed the Long Beach earthquake of 1933, which occurred on March 10th on the day of the eclipse of the moon.
And in researching that two years ago in some old newspapers, I saw some startling information.
The governor was so, and Southern California was so shaken to their core by this 6.3 quake in which dozens of schools collapsed, the old unreinforced masonry schools that were so typical.
They did a quick study.
They hired a commission.
Within three weeks, the commission reported to Governor, I think, Olson at the time, and they said, had that earthquake not occurred at 5.45 in the afternoon, but around 2 o'clock in the afternoon when all of the schools were in full session, we would have lost between 10,000 and 30,000 kids.
Now, that's the reason the legislature got off its dust and adopted the Field Act that same month.
And the Field Act said, something special about schools.
We've got kids in here, and that's our future, and so we're going to design these to a much higher standard.
And through the years, since 1933, the post-Field Act schools have done very well, and the Field Act schools have almost been wiped out by subsequent earthquakes.
But one real caveat there, the Field Act only applies to public schools.
So those parochial and private schools, to whom the buildings have been sold at bargain prices, they still have the same risk.
unidentified
Boy.
art bell
First time caller line, you're on the air with Jim Berglund.
unidentified
Hi.
Hi, this is Linda in Carson City, Nevada.
art bell
Hello, Linda.
unidentified
Hi.
I just have a few comments to make about the behavior of animals before and after earthquakes.
Presently, I have a small dog.
I've only had her for about a year and a half.
But I also have an Amazon parrot that I've had for about 16 years.
jim berkland
Yes.
unidentified
I lived in the San Francisco Bay Area for quite some time.
And even when I could not feel an earthquake, the parrot could.
Because you would be awakened in the middle of the night to flap, flap, flap, flap, bang.
And the parrot would fall off his perch.
jim berkland
And they'll hang upside down for long periods.
unidentified
Oh, he will go onto the side of his cage and not come off.
jim berkland
And if you had an open door, they would fly out and might go clear out the home and not come back.
unidentified
Yeah, well, and lately, the dog will not let me out of his sight.
The parrot has been hanging on the side of the cage.
jim berkland
Well, you're giving me those symptoms that I have.
unidentified
And two deer were down in my backyard at noon less than a week ago.
art bell
Now, see, my fax machine right now is going absolutely crackers with the exact kind of thing this lady just said.
jim berkland
Uh-huh.
art bell
Exactly.
jim berkland
Well, see, this is what I've been hoping to get, a clearinghouse for this kind of exotic information.
And it could be based on the seismic windows known for your particular area.
As I say, most of the windows for the United States are the same window we have that I've been talking about.
But if you lived in the Salton Sea, you would find it didn't fit.
I had one woman around here that would just panicked about earthquakes.
And I said, well, you could get another place down by Brawley, and you could move down there during the windows here and move up back up here during the windows down there.
In fact, there was a fellow in the movie industry that goes to Sedona, where it's very quiet, seismically too, and comes back to his Hollywood work between the windows.
And one night he came back in to the Los Angeles airport, had been here just for about two hours when a five-magnitude quake hit, and I got a rather angry call from him that night.
He didn't tell me about this one.
Well, I don't get them all.
art bell
Right.
All right, East of the Rockies, real quickly, you're on the air.
Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified
Upstate New York.
art bell
Yes, sir.
unidentified
Yeah, Jim, listen, I live right on Lake Ontario, pretty much between Rochester and Buffalo.
And a few years ago, I encountered some geologists going across our farm.
They informed me that they were tracking the Clarendon Fault.
They said it came up from, I believe they said it came up from Pennsylvania.
I don't know if they were trying to scare me or what, but in so many words, they told me that it was quite, it was a fault that showed a lot of activity.
And as it is, they tracked it right across my farm.
And I was just wondering, I subscribed to SeismoWatch, and I have not received anything, any information on this Clarendon fault.
Do you know anything about that?
jim berkland
I hadn't heard that particular fault name, but certainly the St. Lawrence zone, the lineament there, is like a finger pointing down to New Madrid, Missouri.
And there have been a number of seven-magnitude quakes along that major suture.
They call it a geo-suture.
And it's a zone of weakness, and unusual rock types develop along it.
And there have been some very destructive quakes going back into colonial times.
And, of course, you mentioned Pennsylvania.
You know, they had a couple of 4.6s just about two years ago near Harrisburg.
Surprised everybody, the largest quakes in the history of Pennsylvania.
And at one point, I had a list of 12 earthquakes that had been centered in Pennsylvania.
All 12 of them fit my window theory.
unidentified
Oh, my.
jim berkland
And including those in Harrisburg.
art bell
All right, so everybody needs to understand that your window applies not just to the Ring of Fire, not just to California, not just to the West Coast, but anywhere subject to earthquakes.
jim berkland
Well, by inspection, you can find that the Salton Sea trough is out of phase, and that many east-west structures like the Pyrenees Mountains and the Camp Chatka area where the faults are moving.
art bell
Boy, it's been really moving over there.
Jim, hold on.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
We'll be right back.
Retired California geologist Jim Berkland, my guest.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 28th of June, 1996.
Premier Networks presents Heartfelt Somewhere In Time.
Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 28th, 1996.
art bell
In the window, as it were, my guest is retired geologist Jim Birkland in California, the Bay Area.
So, he lives in the area he talks a lot about.
unidentified
We'll talk more to him in a moment, or I should say you will.
art bell
We'll try and get more to the phones as we can.
Back now, Jim Berkland and...
And Jim, very briefly, before we dive back in here, I've got a ton of stuff for you.
The phone lines are boiling.
Let's do it one more time.
A lot of people joined us at 1 a.m. Pacific time.
We're in a window.
We went into a window at midnight that extends now through July 6th.
And you have a very specific set of predictions for what's going to occur between now and then, 85% probability.
What is that?
jim berkland
Yes, four main predictions, specific ones for time, place, and magnitude.
That within 70 miles of San Jose, California, in the south end of San Francisco Bay, I expect a 3.5 to 6 magnitude quake to occur during that time.
And within 140 miles of Los Angeles, the same range and magnitude during the same period.
And within 70 miles of Seattle, the same thing.
Now, the Seattle one, people say, well, they just had this strongest quake in 31 years, so it's easy to hit the aftershocks.
Well, my last window was opened on the 1st of June, and there hadn't been a quake stronger than 3 since the 5th of June.
And on June 1st, just 20 minutes into my window, they had a 3.2, and that hasn't been exceeded since June.
Then, worldwide, most of the major quakes of seven magnitude or greater, about 80% of the major quakes around the world do occur around the specific ring of fire, that world-encircling band of trenches and volcanoes and larger earthquakes.
Disclose Hayward Fault Creep Risks 00:07:56
jim berkland
And normally we get 14 major events per year, so about one a month.
So with my eight-day window, I have about a one in four chance of hitting it just randomly.
But I've been hitting three out of four for about 20 years, 22, yeah, 20 years.
art bell
Yeah, that's quite a record, yeah.
jim berkland
Uh-huh.
So then other seismically active areas in the world should also look to their own local effects.
The tides only really tell you when.
They give you an idea as to when, but they don't really tell you where or how big.
Until you look at your springs or your, if you have hot springs, they may change their temperature.
Often, over a period of months prior to a quake, the volume of water will decrease and the temperature will decrease, and then suddenly the quake will hit and you'll find the temperature is 10 or 20 degrees warmer and may be full of H2S gas or maybe releasing a lot of radon gas that could have been detected days in advance of the earthquake.
The ground may tilt.
If you're near a fault that's been known to creep, it may suddenly increase its creep rate as the Hayward Fault has been known to do now since Christmas time.
It's been creeping 30 times faster than it was for the previous 30 years.
art bell
Yeah, I heard that.
And here's the perfect place for this facts.
Jim, Art, my house sits actually directly on the Hayward Fault.
I was wondering if you could ask Mr. Berkelu if he thinks any movement might occur on this particular fault.
Thanks, Mark, KSFO, San Francisco.
jim berkland
If I were there, the chief movement would be me getting out.
art bell
Getting out?
jim berkland
That would not live on the Hayward.
That's ridiculous.
It moved at least three feet in 1836 and 1868, and it hasn't moved except by slow creep ever since.
I mean, sudden movements with close to seven magnitude earthquakes.
You do not want to have even a steel house on top of such a fault.
Mother Earth doesn't respect our earthquake-proof structures.
And there's no reason to live on such a thing.
That's frightening.
I would plan to move out.
You're going to have to disclose the fact to somebody else, especially if you have young kids.
art bell
When did that come into effect?
You had to disclose.
Say, by the way, you're on a fault line here.
jim berkland
On my arrival into Santa Clara County in 1973, when I started that year, started to work for the county, I found that this bill had just been adopted because largely of the San Fernando earthquake in 1971.
And they said, hey, if your house is on a moving landslide, you have to disclose that because that's a material fact.
But we have no regulations about next to a fault that's either moving or likely to move.
And people always had this feeling, well, I know there's a fault around here somewhere, and not understand that they're right on top of it until the sidewalk begins to move apart.
And this winery down south of Hollister was the first place they ever discovered creeping faults where the fault would move without benefit of earthquakes.
art bell
So in other words, if you lived on the Hayward Fault right now, you would not be sleeping well over the next week or so.
jim berkland
Oh, I would, in fact, probably wanted to visit someplace else for a while.
Little vacation.
If I lived 100 feet away, it wouldn't bother me, except I wouldn't want to go up and work on the chimney or something, you know.
And I would tell the kids, hey, if something happens, and we have our aunt Margaret over in Nevada, you call her, and I'll call her wherever we are when the quake hits, and we'll say, hey, we're all right.
And then we'll call her back and see how the other people are doing.
She's a clearinghouse.
art bell
I was passing through Anchorage after the big quake.
I saw the effects of it.
actually saw it.
And I've had nightmares ever since, Jim, about the Earth actually opening up, and I know it sounds dumb, but swallowing me up, falling down in a crack, and just disappearing into the Earth.
jim berkland
Yeah, well, that doesn't happen.
You get lurching in weak materials.
And of course, you had Ternigan Heights there.
art bell
Look, I saw, it could have happened in Alaska.
jim berkland
But not along the fault.
It's like a landslide.
art bell
Yeah.
jim berkland
This kind of thing.
Yeah, you can slip in and it can move and crush you.
And the houses were built pretty well on Ternigan Heights.
They just moved around like little toys, and that whole thing moved towards the Connecticarm.
And then did you hear what happened about 10 years ago?
They decided instead of keeping that apart, they were going to go back and develop it again.
unidentified
Well, people.
jim berkland
And with the city council and the geologist saying, hey, what kind of a lesson does it take here?
And the city council person said, don't you have any faith in Alaska?
unidentified
Alaska.
jim berkland
It's totally irrelevant.
art bell
Ah, that's a great comment.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Jim Berkeland.
unidentified
Hello.
Hi.
art bell
Hi.
unidentified
How are you guys?
Fine.
I'm calling from Bakersfield.
Oh, boy.
And I'm wondering, you know, living in California, I've always heard about the big one.
And I'm wondering, how likely is it that California will break up into small pieces and the shoreline will be at Arizona?
jim berkland
Geologically, the chances are zero.
unidentified
Okay.
jim berkland
If you can get some other sources of information, then you have to go with that.
But I just totally talked that away.
Down around Tehachapi and here in Altamont Pass, in the Bay Area, they have these giant wind generators.
So I've always told people, don't worry, the minute we start to slide, they're going to turn on those propellers.
unidentified
So it's about the height.
It'll pull the cross right back up to the plate.
art bell
All right.
So you're safe, but you're not safe.
How is Bakersfield?
unidentified
Are we under a major fault?
I know San Andreas is really close.
jim berkland
You're close.
Now, 1952, June the 21st, summer solstice.
You had a 7.7 quake up in the White Wolf Fault at the edge of the Tehachapes.
And that's the largest earthquake in the state since 1906.
It occurred on the day of the new moon.
And one month later, we had an eclipse of the sun.
And the day after that, Bakersfield had its own separate quake, essentially an aftershock, but it was on a different fault east of Bakersfield.
And it was a 6.0.
It did more damage in Bakersfield than the Tehachapi.
Even though the Tehachapi was 500 times stronger.
So Bakersfield is certainly not immune, but definitely the structures have been improved.
Boy, those old adobe structures and unreinforced masonry, those were pretty well filtered out following those earthquakes.
You're in much better shape now than you were then.
art bell
All right.
That's a good answer.
Anyway, California is not going to break off, slide off.
Small portions of it may rearrange, though.
jim berkland
Slowly, slowly.
The maximum movement we've ever had from a single earthquake happened twice in 1899 in southeastern Alaska and again in 1964.
And the up and down motion was a maximum of 47 feet displacement.
Great sections of sea were raised above, and the fish were flopping and the mussels died from the being under the land.
And other great sections were dropped beneath sea level and they had to replace the harbor of Cordova and move the city up into the hills a bit.
And so major land effects can occur, but not turning us into a series of islands.
art bell
All right.
I'm going to get to Sandeo.
I meant to ask you about that, but Wildcard Line, you're on the air right now with Jim Berkeland.
unidentified
Hi.
art bell
Yes.
unidentified
Hi, Art.
art bell
Where are you?
unidentified
Sedona, Arizona.
art bell
Oh, mystical Sedona.
unidentified
My husband and I have lived here 20 years, and I can tell you, indeed, it is a magical town.
jim berkland
We were there two years ago, and our next stop was up into Walnut Canyon, which I'd never heard about before.
unidentified
Oh, that's interesting.
jim berkland
And then I was in Meteor Crater when the first shoemaker levy began to hit Jupiter.
Dog Follows 00:03:01
jim berkland
Very good timing for me.
unidentified
Oh, good.
Art, I'm a big fan of yours for a couple of years, so I'm thrilled against you tonight.
Great.
art bell
Great, thank you.
unidentified
I want to tell you that I've got a question to ask, but first of all, I want to tell you about animals.
art bell
Yes.
unidentified
Our dog, she's half dingo, by the way.
I'm originally from Andrew.
We have a lot of dingos in Arizona.
She is very, very restless.
jim berkland
Tonight?
unidentified
Well, actually, the last few days.
She follows me from room to room.
She's never done that before.
Creeping from the living room into the bedroom to sleep at night, she comes in in little stages, like little sneaking in, you know, and put it back to a bed, and she's right back again.
And today she'll follow me around the house.
I didn't know why.
And also, our birds are very timid.
When I'm coming up to the front door of our house, there's a lot of birds always around the front on our lawn.
I can walk almost up to them.
And a few of them I walked up to tonight when we came in.
And I thought maybe one of them was injured because it wasn't moving away.
I'm getting closer to the birds.
art bell
Look, I've got to stop both of you right now.
And I've got to tell you, Jim, this is the truth.
Yesterday, I don't know why, I walked outside.
I've built this new little spa room out back.
And I walked outside, and there was a bird just sitting there next to the concrete, newly poured concrete.
And I walked up to the bird, and I fully expected it to get up and fly away.
It didn't.
It didn't fly away.
And I reached down, I said, hi, little bird.
Sounds dumb, I know, but that's what I said.
Hi, little bird.
And he didn't budge.
But I could see he was alive.
unidentified
Jim, I reached down and I petted the bird.
I petted the bird.
art bell
And he just looked up at me, and I finally, I finally, I carried him over to another area.
I thought I'd put him near one of our bushes.
And eventually, I sat there and watched.
There was nothing wrong with this bird.
unidentified
He flew away.
art bell
But why would a wild bird allow you to come up and pet him?
jim berkland
Well, that's the kind of reaction that you read about in the book When the Snakes Awake by Helmut Tribuch.
Now, this is the Bible when it comes to bioseismic effects.
And I just, anybody can get hold of that in the library, and I hope they reprint it in softcover.
It was only about a $10 book.
He could not publish in this country because they said it's full of anecdotes and a bunch of old wives' tales.
So he published in his native German.
It was so good that the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Press translated it and made it available to us.
Seismic Controversies 00:06:28
jim berkland
And it is fantastic.
And it explains about the magnetic field changes and the earthquake fogs, earthquake lights, earthquake sounds.
All of these things are real.
And they were totally discredited by high science for many years.
The fellow that called in from Colorado may or may not know about the controversy in the early 60s, 1962.
Colorado began to shake with over 700 earthquakes over the next five years.
unidentified
Yes.
jim berkland
And they'd never felt a quake before.
Well, it happened to be just about two months after they started pumping in this tremendous mass chemical warfare waste.
They were trying to pump down these 12,000-foot holes near Colorado, near Denver.
unidentified
Great.
jim berkland
And it went down through the upper Paleozoic rocks down into the basement below, which they thought was perfectly safe, out of sight, out of mind.
And all of a sudden, the quakes began and began to do some damage.
And one lone geologist, David Evans, I don't know if he's still alive, spoke up and he said, you know, we didn't have these quakes until they started pumping that water down there.
I think it's kind of lubricating the faults and increasing the pore pressure and creating earthquakes.
And the high scientists denied it.
Absolutely not.
Do you realize that's like saying we could raise the Rockies with an eye drop?
And so then they had to shut the pumps down for maintenance, and the earthquakes stopped.
And after a few weeks, they started them up again, and the quakes began after a lag time of a few days.
And then they said, oh, we thought so all the time.
So now it's become known worldwide.
You can cause earthquakes by changing the water, the fluid pressure.
art bell
All right, let me talk for a second, because I promised to do it about Stan Deo in Australia.
Stan has stayed very close to us.
He's a great guy.
He has been looking at these naval satellite photographs, heat imaging photographs, and he has been making predictions based on what he calls heat plumes that show up on the satellite imagery.
And inevitably, where it gets hot and then hotter and hotter, he predicts a quake.
And sure enough, something happens on a fairly regular basis.
His prediction, even though he's not been doing it for a long time, he's been very accurate.
Would you think there might be something to that?
jim berkland
Well, something.
We know that sub-sea volcanoes cause thermal currents and sometimes ash and steam to come to the surface and create new islands.
We know the oceanic ridges are the source of new magma coming up.
I would think that on a worldwide basis, 70% of the world is water and miles deep, that it would be hard to see what's happening with the crust below over broad areas, not just over volcanic vents.
And I would like to know what resulted last month, well, no, earlier this month here, the mid-Atlantic Ridge, the seven-magnitude quake on the 2nd of June was the largest ever measured in that area just north of Brazil and the Guianas.
Yes.
So I would like to know if there was a remarkable heat flow in the days and weeks prior to that.
That would be a unique event, whereas most of our big quakes are around the Pacific anyway.
art bell
All right.
Well, we can certainly find out for you.
We can certainly find out for you.
All right.
We've got a couple of more calls here.
In fact, the whole bank is going crazy, so we better try to take care of me.
Easter the Rockies, you're on the air with Jim Birkland.
unidentified
Hello.
Hey, yes, this is Brad in St. Joseph, Missouri.
art bell
Yes, hi, Brad.
jim berkland
Just here last year.
unidentified
Great.
jim berkland
Pony Express.
unidentified
Oh, yes.
Uh-huh.
brian harrison
Okay, I don't know about that part of the farm belt, but we're getting flooded out.
My question was, though, a few years ago when I was in high school, they were preparing us for an earthquake that somebody had announced was going to happen.
jim berkland
Ivan Browning.
unidentified
Huh?
jim berkland
Ivan Browning.
The geographer, a meteorologist.
unidentified
Yes.
brian harrison
I mean, they crammed us through all the earthquake drills you could think of.
jim berkland
See, that's helpful as long as it wasn't creating any panic.
unidentified
Well, I'm afraid it was.
brian harrison
That's all that was on the news, and everybody figured the housing that was around here couldn't handle it, and we're all going to be homeless.
jim berkland
Well, I understand they called up the National Guard, and they had the school holiday.
unidentified
Oh, they did.
Yeah.
jim berkland
Now, the local paper was, let's see, in Memphis, they were sending me, the radio station was sending me the paper so I could count the animals down there.
And they did reach a high.
You had about a five-magnitude quake a couple of months in advance of that December date.
unidentified
In St. Joe, Missouri?
jim berkland
In near New Madrid, in Missouri.
Yeah, it was in September, and they said, boy, we're getting close to the December critical date, and maybe he's right.
Now, Ivan Browning was also looking at tides from the sun and moon.
But he went way overboard on the data because he was calling for a particular place to have this almost unprecedented earthquake a year in advance.
And you can't, there's no way you can logically do that.
You don't know if that area is susceptible to a big, big earthquake, especially at the time that you've selected a year in advance.
art bell
So that was a big, big miss, is what it was.
jim berkland
Yes, and Unsolved Mysteries came out and interviewed me about that.
art bell
Well, they did?
jim berkland
Yes, and I told them I didn't put any credence in it.
I gave it less than one-half of 1% chance of happening, and they didn't want to hear that, and I got left on the cutting room floor.
art bell
Uh-huh.
Well, those things happen when you're not saying what they want to hear.
Well, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with geologist Jim Birkland.
Hi.
unidentified
Good morning, Mr. Bell.
art bell
Good morning.
Where are you?
unidentified
I'm in Windsor, Ontario.
art bell
All right.
unidentified
Head up that way.
Pardon me?
jim berkland
Head up that way next week to Montreal.
unidentified
Yes.
Well, what I was doing, I was listening to you talk about the York of the Hills area where the nuclear depository area.
Yes.
Yes.
Well, they're doing the same thing here in Canada.
jim berkland
Are they?
unidentified
And they've got an environment.
I was just looking at when you mentioned that, I pull out this environmental impact statement, and it shows a seismic map of Canada and part of the United States.
And the area that they show that they want to put this thing in is on the Canadian Shield near the Hudson Bay area.
Nuclear Waste Sites Discussed 00:06:10
unidentified
And on this map, there's absolutely no seismic activity except for a few little things.
But everywhere else, that map is everything I know about the area.
jim berkland
If you had to have that site, that nuclear waste site, the Canadian Shield, is the best probably in the world.
Maybe Central Australia would match it.
unidentified
So this map would be correct then?
jim berkland
As far as I know, as long as you get away from the St. Lawrence Seaway, and up in Northwest Territories, they've had some very large earthquakes.
But around the Hudson Bay, it's been pretty cool.
art bell
There you are, sir.
All right.
unidentified
Okay, thank you.
art bell
Okay, thank you very much for the call.
And what we're going to have to do is pause here.
Are you you sound very much awake, Jim?
Are you sleeping?
unidentified
Very much, though.
Oh, boy.
jim berkland
I have a cup of coffee here, by the way.
Oh, you do?
art bell
All right.
Well, then, in that case, I would suggest you sit tight, and we'll come back to you after the top of the hour and touch on so much more that's sitting here waiting.
I mean, the folks.
jim berkland
I've got some stories that won't quit.
art bell
All right.
Stay right where you are.
unidentified
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues.
Courtesy of Premier Networks.
art bell
There are a lot of things that we don't understand about magnetism, gravity, earthquakes, the world we live upon.
And Jim Birkland is a guy who makes sense of some of it.
We'll try and make sense of a little bit of it for you here.
unidentified
All right, back now to Jim Birkland.
art bell
Jim, are you there?
Jim?
Hello, Jim.
unidentified
Uh-oh.
art bell
Uh-oh, he says we might have lost Jim.
No, we haven't.
Here he is.
unidentified
There you are.
jim berkland
Okay.
art bell
I thought we lost you.
unidentified
No, no.
art bell
Maybe a shaker.
jim berkland
I hope so.
art bell
No, now, don't.
You're not supposed to say that.
jim berkland
For little ones, Joe, I love them.
art bell
The little ones, yeah, the little ones.
But you are predicting actually three.
What would you call those?
They're not moderate earthquakes.
Do you love those?
Be honest.
jim berkland
Yeah.
art bell
Yeah.
You might even love the big ones, but you wouldn't probably say you would love to.
jim berkland
Well, I wouldn't like to go through Loma Prieta again in that situation where I wasn't sure the building was going to stand up.
art bell
I hear you.
All right.
So many people want to talk to you.
First time caller line.
You're on the air with Jim Birkland.
Hi.
unidentified
Hi.
Thank you for taking my call.
art bell
Sure.
Where are you?
unidentified
I am Minneapolis.
art bell
Minneapolis.
unidentified
Oh, boy.
kathleen keating
I enjoy your program very much, but I do work daily, so I don't get to listen to very often.
What I was concerned about was I'm flying into San Jose Sunday for trial on Monday.
art bell
Or you can sure pick your times.
unidentified
I know.
kathleen keating
I just happened to hear this tonight, and I was wondering, you just said moderate.
unidentified
Now, what do you mean by moderate?
jim berkland
Most likely, it's not going to be over a five.
Most people are going to survive anyway.
You just don't want to take unusual chances.
San Jose did quite well, really, in the Loma Prieta quake.
We had no deaths, and there were some locally poorly situated houses that had a lot of shaking.
Our house here, we lost about two feet out of the swimming pool.
We're not going to worry about that now because we filled it in after the kids grew up, and we have a lawn on top where the pool was.
So we're not going to have any more water sloshing out.
There was a water polo team at West Valley College that all got swept up on the bank as the big saich wave shook out about 10 feet of water.
They were much closer to the fault.
Half of them hung onto the hurricane fence there, and the other half said, surf up, and jump back in the pool to share in this washing.
unidentified
I'm not sure you're being much comfortable.
art bell
Now, comfort this lady.
If she's coming to San Jose on Sunday, right in the middle of the window, the full moon, all the rest of it, where would she best be should there be an earthquake?
I mean, obviously, you stay out of great big, tall buildings.
unidentified
Well, it's Santa Vegas.
jim berkland
San Ave's grown up remarkably in the last 10 years in modern buildings.
I didn't hear of any of them having any problem with the Loma Prieta quake, and I don't expect anything that strong.
art bell
All right, so come west and enjoy yourself.
Thank you.
It's part of what you live with when you live in the West, right?
unidentified
Sure.
jim berkland
Yeah, if I know if I'm going to Minneapolis in the wintertime, I'm going to dress pretty warmly.
art bell
There you go.
So if you come to California.
jim berkland
Keep a loose attitude.
unidentified
A loose attitude.
art bell
Well, you'll fit right in.
All right, wild card line, you're on the air with Jim Berklund.
jim berkland
Hello.
unidentified
Oh, Mr. Berkel.
This is James in San Francisco.
art bell
Hi.
unidentified
I'm an astrologer, and I've noted that the full moon Sunday night is going to be conjunct Jupiter.
Thurston Clark's Insights 00:08:43
unidentified
I find that significant if you don't.
jim berkland
True.
Okay.
unidentified
We'll see what happens.
art bell
Wait a minute, wait a minute.
Now, what he's saying is scientifically accurate.
In other words, the actual effect from Jupiter as compared to the moon.
unidentified
Well, look at, if you look right now, you'll see Jupiter and the moon right together.
Tomorrow, Sunday night, they're going to be 4 degrees apart after sunset.
art bell
Yeah, but so what?
unidentified
Well, because Jupiter has a pull like all the planets.
jim berkland
What happened the last time you had conjunct the moon and Jupiter?
unidentified
Well, we have them every month, but we don't have them on a full moon on perigee, and with the tides going up and the dogs going off, and the magnets coming off.
jim berkland
What I want to see is you're hitching a ride.
unidentified
Yeah, Mr. Bruce Cathy of New Zealand talks about the world grid system.
And he doesn't talk about tectonic plates.
The Russians talk about it, too.
And it's like Plato talked about the hall of the sphere, which is a dodecahedron.
jim berkland
Well, I believe in Holeman's 19.5 degrees.
There's no getting around it.
art bell
Oh, would you like to comment on Mr. Hoagland's 19.5?
jim berkland
Yeah, in fact, I called him when I suddenly noticed that the giant crater in Yucatan is at 19.5 degrees, and none of his publications have talked about that.
And he says, now that is interesting.
art bell
Really?
unidentified
Yeah.
art bell
As a matter of fact, I've got a call into Richard.
I think he's back from Europe, or he might be taking off again.
I'm not sure.
But he is intriguingly an interesting.
He's just a very interesting person to listen to, and I'm beginning to buy into an awful lot of what he says.
jim berkland
Yeah, he talked me into going back to Wyoming to the Cody conference a couple years ago, and I gave a paper on the face on Mars.
Wondering why my other geologic colleagues weren't saying, hey, this thing doesn't look natural.
And I'm about 90% convinced it's not natural.
It's about the size and shape of Ayers Rock in Australia.
And in the 40s, there was a Japanese architect who suggested we'd make a giant face staring up for extraterrestrials to have a look.
There's somebody here a nose a mile long.
So not too far off from Earthlink concept.
art bell
There was a program called The Mysterious Origins of Mankind.
Did you see that?
jim berkland
I think I may have seen one or two.
art bell
All right.
Well, it proposed a theory that suggests that there is, at various times, gigantic crustal movement that everything shifts, and that they have found vegetation up at the North Pole and so forth and so on.
jim berkland
Yeah, well, I worked north of the Arctic Circle in the Brooks Range, and there were poppies and buttercups and everything growing in the hills, and right next to the glaciers and the frozen ground, permafrost is right there, about two feet down.
So you can just picture an elephant wandering around and slipping into some sludge and getting frozen rather quickly, even with the buttercups in his stomach.
It doesn't mean he lived in a temperate climate.
And if he did, why did he need all the hair?
And why'd you have the woolly rhinoceroses and all this stuff?
So, yeah, Sandberg, Ivan Sanderson, and I guess Casey and a few others talk about this massive displacement.
Yes.
Hapgood is another leading proponent.
And there's no question the magnetic field, the magnetic pole moves slowly around.
Absolutely.
But we've never had any indication of a sudden shift of the crust itself.
art bell
So you generally reject that?
Absolutely.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jim Birkeland.
Hi.
unidentified
This is Sunshine and your guests.
Very interesting.
When you spoke of the bird, that you were able to pet the bird.
Yes.
They're proven through research that dogs and cats, I suppose it could mean birds also breed like an MYI.
You know how an MY does the colorization?
Well, they see the heat part of us radiating and know whether we're okay or not, etc.
art bell
That may be.
unidentified
And I wonder if, regarding earthquakes, if they feel certain things in the atmosphere to know exactly what it is.
jim berkland
I think they're kind of stunned.
There was a lady that had a seeing eye dog, a German shepherd, and I've heard this now two other times.
The night before a strong earthquake, the quakes over in Livermore, her dog developed convulsions, and she thought she was going to lose him.
That bet couldn't see what was wrong, and after a few hours, he was okay.
The next morning, she walked out for a morning walk.
She opened up the front door, and she said it was almost like opening up an oven door.
I felt as if the air were layered.
It felt like it had a texture to it.
I don't know how to describe it, she said.
And then the quake happened.
And about two months later, she had moved to another locality south of San Francisco, and they had a 3.8.
And I called her, and she said he had convulsions the night before that one, too.
And then I just read from a seismologist in Mexico City that before the big Mexico quake in 1985, his German shepherd had had convulsions the night before, and he never could understand it.
There's electromagnetic energy out there, and it's affecting our nervous systems.
art bell
I believe that's true.
I firmly believe that's true.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jim Birkeland.
Hi.
Where are you, please?
unidentified
Hi.
Tahoma, Tennessee.
All right.
Well, number one, I'm going to ask about the names of those authors, but first of all, he spoke about the New Madrid fault.
I have a daughter that lives about 25 miles from Realfoot Lake.
jim berkland
Oh, yes.
unidentified
And you said 25% chance, but did you say no prediction for the magnitude?
jim berkland
Oh, probably three magnitudes, three to four.
unidentified
Three to four.
Yeah.
jim berkland
No reason to think larger unless you had some local indicators.
unidentified
Oh, I see.
jim berkland
Yeah, of course, the Realfoot Lake was created when the meander of the Mississippi was cut off by the quake.
unidentified
Yes.
It filled the lake.
jim berkland
Yeah, it was already full.
I just cut it off so it couldn't continue to flow.
unidentified
Yeah.
I wanted to ask the name of the author of the lunar effect.
jim berkland
Dr. Arnold Lieber, L-I-E-B-E-R.
unidentified
L-I-E-V-E-R.
Would I find that in the library?
jim berkland
If you're lucky, it came out about 1979.
And what I liked about it, too, in the back, in the glossary, it has a list of all of the phases of the moon until about the year 2006 or something like that.
unidentified
Oh, well, that's great.
And the last name of when the snakes away is Helmut.
jim berkland
Helmut Tribuch.
And he actually lectured here at Stanford for a semester, and I didn't find out about it until he left.
I'm just kicking myself.
I didn't get a chance to talk to him because he is just a classic scientist and took an awful lot of guff from people that had no right to.
unidentified
Well, this is such an interesting show, I think.
But I want you to spell that last name for me.
jim berkland
T-R-I-B-U-T.
unidentified
B-U-T.
jim berkland
S-C-H.
Tribuch.
unidentified
German.
S-H.
jim berkland
So while you're at it, let me talk to the author, Thurston Clark.
Thurston Clark, C-L-A-R-K-E, who got a Guggenheim and got a National Geographic Award for previous books.
He's recently come out with a book called California Fault.
And he starts at the north end of San Andreas and works his way clear down about the Mexican border talking to people such as myself.
I've got a large part of the chapter in there.
And he interviews predictors and cultists and historians.
It's really an excellent sociological study.
And if you want to get right to the trace, it's chapter 28, Lost Cats and Smashed Pigeons.
Mount St. Helens Subsidence 00:10:43
unidentified
Chapter 28.
jim berkland
Yeah?
art bell
All right, there you are, ma'am.
unidentified
Well, I thank you so much, and it's really interesting.
Thank you.
art bell
Yes, it is.
All right, here's one for you.
Jim, if time allows, could you tackle this one?
Assuming your hypothesis that water table hydraulic pressure frees up the plates, would the drastic lowering of the water table in central California, especially the San Joaquin Valley, cause the area to act optimistically as an anchor or pessimistically as a pivot?
jim berkland
Oh, no, I can't see it at all.
This was written up in We Are the Earthquake Generation by Jeffrey Goodman.
And he referred to the San Joaquin Valley as moving up and down, I guess, dozens of feet.
I worked there with the Bureau of Reclamation for about three years, and there's two kinds of subsidence going on.
A shallow subsidence caused by dry soils getting saturated, and they just collapse.
And that causes up to 20 or 30 feet of subsidence, along with the pulling out the deep water table from the farmers and ranchers.
And that also adds to groundwater table reduction and the surface dropping along with it.
So those two main kinds of subsidence create big problems for canals and topographic surveys and everything else through there, but they're not it will have nothing to do with the plates.
The theory that I talk about is that the fault lines, the shallow, relatively shallow fault lines are where the water collects and increases the pressure.
But it has very little to do with the plate movements, which are thousands of miles across.
art bell
Okay, I've got you.
Quick shift.
I cannot not ask you about the swarming of quakes at Mammoth.
jim berkland
Oh, boy.
art bell
Ah, yes.
And they seem to come in waves, don't they?
jim berkland
Yes, they do.
It's caused, again, a D-level alert from the USGS.
They've had a number of, in fact, one as strong as over four magnitude.
So far, none of their alerts have turned out to be, you know, one of these days, what's liable to happen there?
Well, we know 600,000 years ago, there was probably one of the largest eruptions that ever hit the earth.
And about several thousand feet of Bishop Tuff flowed out, and ash was carried into the sky and left about six inches thick over Nebraska.
Good Lord.
And it would put Mount St. Helens and Pinatubo and everything else to shame.
But just the quakes themselves aren't enough to really shouldn't alarm anyone.
It's that the ground begins to swell and the heat begins to build.
And the earthquake foci, the center where the earthquakes begin, gets progressively shallower.
art bell
Now, I don't know a lot about what you're talking about, but I know that if the ground began to swell, that's really bad.
jim berkland
Yeah.
art bell
Really bad.
jim berkland
And it was doing that 10 years ago, I guess, 1980, when they had a series of six magnitude quakes at the same time as Mount St. Helens erupted.
And I think there was some relationship there.
art bell
I wouldn't like that.
I wouldn't like ground swelling.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jim Birkland.
Hi.
unidentified
Hello.
Hello.
My name is Denise.
I'm from Washington State.
Hi.
Thank you very much, Art.
I love your program.
art bell
Thank you.
unidentified
And my question is, I truly believe, and I told a lot of friends, I happen to have a lot of dreams.
And I almost, when we had the San Francisco earthquake several years ago, we were living in California, Southern California at the time.
For over two weeks, I was having tremendous dreams.
I couldn't even close my eyes without seeing earthquakes.
About four days before the earthquake hit in San Francisco, I told my husband, you can't go on your trip.
And he was going down to San Jose.
I says, because I know it's in San Francisco and you can't go.
And it's just so funny because it happened the day before he was going to leave.
Of course, he didn't go because he freaked out.
But anyway, I've lived in Washington State here two years.
And in December, I was telling everybody that I think this coming year is going to be a very active one for Washington.
And I even took out earthquake insurance in my house this year.
jim berkland
Thank you.
art bell
Well, that's putting your money where your dreams are.
unidentified
Yeah.
jim berkland
Well, did you put in about the flooding, your floods of the century this last winter?
unidentified
Yes, I know.
And one of the reasons why I think we've been having a lot of floodings is a few several months back, Art had a gentleman on or a whole bunch of people talking about, remember when they were saying they felt that the earth shifted and all this stuff?
Just about the same time the earth shifted, our weather changed dramatically here.
jim berkland
Well, the earth didn't shift.
unidentified
Yeah, but we well, when the talk was about.
art bell
Well, what has happened, though, is we're getting very strange jet stream patterns.
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
art bell
And that accounts for where the water goes, doesn't it, Jim?
jim berkland
Oh, sure.
We're the fifth wettest two-year period in the history of San Jose.
And that's why when my June syzygy went out there, it was at the Printers.
I showed that the previous four years that double years that topped this last two, they each were accompanied by quakes of 5.5 to 7.
And so I predicted we would have a 5.
And it happened already in May, 4.8.
art bell
So not only do we have the moon, do we have these tidal forces all coming together at once in the window that we're in right now, but we have the Northwest, which took probably the biggest soaking it's had in a long time.
That's an awful lot coming together.
jim berkland
Oh, yes.
Yeah, and the 5.5 was the strongest quake in 31 years up there.
The Mount St. Helens quake, you had a quake there on March the 20th of 1980 in the middle of a window that was just about equal to the one we're in right now.
It opened on the 16th with an eclipse.
unidentified
Yes.
jim berkland
And there was a 4.3 quake right under the volcano of Mount St. Helens, which was the strongest quake on the west coast during my window.
So I was a bit disappointed, but I was at least pointed into Mount St. Helens.
Then the next couple of days, they had a couple of other threes.
One week later, I was being interviewed by a TBS television crew about earthquakes, and I was waving my arms around the Calaveras Fault, and we talked for about a half hour.
And as they folded up their equipment, we started back to the town.
And they said, well, speaking of other things, Jim, what do you think about Mount St. Helens?
And I said, I think that volcano means business.
I'd give it a 50-50 chance to erupt this year and become the first one since Mount Lassen back in 1922 in the control state.
art bell
And it hits.
jim berkland
They said, you hope you're right.
And it began to erupt that very day.
art bell
All right, Jim.
unidentified
Hold on.
art bell
Jim Birkland is my guest.
He'll be right back.
unidentified
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
We're listening to Art
Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 28th of June, 1996.
art bell
None other like it.
Wide open talk radio in the middle of the night that is not your granddad's talk radio.
I guess that's one way to put it.
Well, you wanted Jim Berkland, so we have had a Jim Berkland fiesta tonight is what we've had.
Jim, you've really been a trooper to stay with us this long.
Do you normally stay up late at night?
jim berkland
Yes, and then usually I go to sleep, put an earplug in my ear to tune to your program.
art bell
Oh, you do?
So you're a listener?
Well, that's cool.
Listen, here's something from down in San Diego, an observation.
This afternoon, I was down at the beach at La Jolla, San Diego area, very exclusive, I might add, and witnessed several sea lions coming in close to the beach, which was crowded with people.
One seal came up out of the water amidst a group of people, stayed on the sand even after the children and adults formed a ring around it.
The seals' behavior was very odd, very out of place.
And I've not seen this curring here before, even though I've been around these coastal waters all my life.
Also, there were no gulls flying in the area.
It was a notable absence.
Also, very curious, is this a possible precursor to the big one, Kurt in Encinitas?
jim berkland
Well, it's a clue.
We have added to the others.
Now, the sea lions have been getting bolder and bolder.
They're quite an attraction in San Francisco, and they're just swarming all over the boat, and that's Fisherman's Wharf.
art bell
Yes.
jim berkland
And now that's happened down in Monterey where they're becoming quite a hazard.
So it may be that some of these emboldened sea lions have worked their way further south.
But I had a call.
A lady was in Mexico and she heard at the beach and just sunning herself by Acapulco and heard somebody yell, Tibron, Tibron.
They looked and they saw this dorsal fin, and it was a lone dolphin that came into this little shallow water.
And a Mexican youth went over and went up to it and grabbed it by the fin and swam around with it.
And everybody was taking pictures.
And it reared up out of the water and let out the most plaintive bleat.
And they all were wondering about this when this seven-magnitude quake came rolling through.
art bell
Uh-huh.
So the answer is maybe.
Yeah.
All right.
One more, and then we'll go back to the phones.
Nuclear Testing and Quakes 00:11:56
art bell
Jim, what, if any, I've wanted to ask this too.
Do you think the French nuclear underground testing, what effect might it have on earthquakes?
And for that matter, anybody's nuclear testing.
Jim, what do you think about that?
jim berkland
Well, when I was going to Davis, we were all up in arms about the testing up in Amchitka with an H-bomb to create a harbor and to see what might happen and that sort of thing.
We signed petitions and there were like eight government agencies and six of them said don't and the two that said yes were military agencies, and so of course they outvoted everybody else and they went ahead with it, but for the next month there were no quakes around the ring Of Fire to speak of.
Nothing really happened.
Now there's no question that within a few tens of miles of an underground nuclear test you often get little shifts in the crust and you get quakes that are considerably smaller than the energy of the blast itself, and this has caught my attention for some time, but I don't see anything to it, although that that very same Mexican quake I just talked about, that happened to be the day of one of the largest blasts they ever did underground north of Las Vegas, the Frenchman's Flat.
And when I saw that I said uh-oh.
And then I looked carefully at the times and the earthquake came before the nuclear blast and I didn't hear anybody say that the blast was triggered by the earthquake.
art bell
Yes well, I've lived in this area for a long time now and I well recall we in Las Vegas we would give out warnings to get away from precarious positions, get off tall buildings, all the rest of it when we'd light one torch one off here well up around the Bay Area.
jim berkland
I could tell when I'd hear when the blasts were supposed to go off and I thought I'd have my pendulum there and I could.
It would actually move.
The house would move past the pendulum about a quarter of an inch, as it would take about 90 seconds for the energy from that nuclear blast near Las Vegas to come up to the Bay Area.
art bell
Okay, here's one more for you.
There was a kind of a secret plan talked about during the Reagan administration when we were busily arming the Contras and trying to see to it that Nicaragua had a peaceful democratic future instead of a communist one.
And there was this quiet talk in the background that there was a plan to literally blast a new Panama Canal all across Nicaragua.
jim berkland
Yeah.
art bell
And we were going to do that with nuclear devices.
What would you say of such a plan?
jim berkland
Oh, I think we've had enough nuclear.
I think we're trying to keep up with the Russians.
They were going to change the course of several of their north-blowing streams to bring them to the south where they do some good with nuclear blasts.
art bell
Right.
jim berkland
And it was just like another race.
I was asked to testify to the Earthquake Prediction Evaluation Council back in 1979.
unidentified
Yes.
jim berkland
And I brought in at the start of my talk a whole list of scientific pronouncements over the previous 15 years that we are 10 years away from effective earthquake prediction.
And the next year, we're still a decade away from earthquake prediction.
And it kept every year, the goal would recede 10 years.
And then I brought up this clipping from Russia, and it said, the Soviet scientists now believe they are five years away from effective earthquake prediction.
And I leaned over this table with all these greybeards around, and I said, gentlemen, we have an earthquake prediction gap.
And nobody laughed.
And I realized when I was up again.
art bell
You're exactly right.
First time caller line.
You're on the air with Jim Birkland.
Hi.
unidentified
Hi, Jim.
jim berkland
Hi.
unidentified
Hi, this is Anne.
I'm calling from Los Angeles.
Yeah.
Art, hi.
art bell
Hi.
unidentified
I just tuned into your program a few weeks ago, and I find it quite intriguing, actually.
art bell
Well, it's a little different.
unidentified
And can I say, you know, I'm on the artistic side of life rather than the scientific side of life.
So, you know, who knows how those can clash from time to time.
What I wanted to ask Jim was, Jim, was there any prediction beforehand about the quake in San Francisco and one at Northridge?
jim berkland
The Loma Frieta quake?
Yeah, you came in late.
I predicted it in the newspaper four days before it happened.
art bell
I've got the article here.
He did.
jim berkland
Yeah.
And I called it the World Series earthquake.
And one week later, I was called in to talk to the boss, and they wanted to fire me.
I was suspended for two and a half months for supposedly panicking the public.
And I was doing my best to lay facts out.
It's like, well, we know this hurricane is coming, but we don't dare tell anybody because it might excite them.
unidentified
Okay, you know, I respect, you know, very much I respect everyone from every walk of life, geologists, seismologists, or whatever.
But, you know, the point you made about scaremongering, you know, that's the thing that worries me.
This lady who called in who wanted to travel to San Jose.
North of San Jose.
jim berkland
No problem.
unidentified
At the 4th of July, now she's concerned about traveling.
jim berkland
I'm traveling myself.
I'm flying out of San Jose at this time.
unidentified
Yeah, but she's concerned about it because, you know, she's had this prediction and what have you.
jim berkland
Again, are you focusing on the higher end of the prediction?
It's a 3.5 to 6.
It may well be a 3.8, which you couldn't feel for more than 75 miles.
unidentified
Well, that's the thing.
You know, there are earthquakes in California every day virtually, you know, but most of them, you know, we don't feel, you know, most of them we're not aware of.
art bell
Well, that's a good question in itself.
Where do we generally become aware?
In other words, you get a 1.5?
jim berkland
I was awakened with a 1.9.
I put an ad in the paper, and everyone that responded, there were six other people, all felt it.
It was about 2 a.m.
So, you know, you had to be very quiet, and you had to be within five miles of it to feel it.
art bell
So, but at the beginning, what, at about three or so?
jim berkland
Well, when it gets to about 3.5, you're pretty sure it's a quake.
When it's 5, you have no doubt.
I had an immediate call after the 5.1 hit Seattle from Laura Lee.
You know about Laura Lee?
Oh, sure.
Okay.
And so I've been on her show about a week earlier, and when the quake hit, the first call I got was from Laura Lee.
Jim, we just heard a big bang, and now my chandelier is kind of waving.
I think we had an earthquake, but my husband just thinks a big truck went by.
And I said, it sounds like a quake to me.
And all of a sudden thing, I had another call, and I call answering, and I got it was another lady from Seattle who had experienced the quakes and knew it was, and they put the two of them together.
art bell
And at a seven-point or greater quake, you generally have to do the laundry?
jim berkland
Oh, yeah.
Well, I didn't in my case, but it came close.
art bell
All right.
Wildguard Line, you're on the air with Jim Berkland.
unidentified
Hi.
Hi, is that me?
art bell
That's you.
jim berkland
Wow.
unidentified
Where are you?
This is Melissa, Houston.
art bell
Houston.
Hi, Maria.
unidentified
I'm a fascinating and very interesting guest, Art.
Thank you.
As always.
I wanted to ask both of you if you are aware that beginning this month, the entire West Coast from Mexico to Seattle will be having a multi-jurisdictional task force exercise.
Exercise 140, I think they call it.
Yes, and it's involving, I guess, huge foreign troops that have been flying in all week into Miramar Naval Air Station and Brown Field.
I don't know much about these military exercises.
I think, Art, you mentioned you were in the military at one time.
art bell
I was in the Air Force, yes.
unidentified
Oh, Air Force, yes.
So, I mean, I wondered if this could possibly sound like some kind of FEMA operation or something.
art bell
All right.
Well, it leads to an interesting question.
I don't know if that is, but, Jim, way behind the scenes, are they doing a lot of preparation and things that they don't tell us about?
jim berkland
I kind of have a hunch along that line.
We keep having these earthquake fairs and informative seminars.
Yes.
But it's really just logical.
I really think that if the federal government could effectively predict earthquakes, they would be doing it.
art bell
Yeah, but would they really?
I mean, let's say the federal government had, through whatever resource, Jim Birkeland or anybody else had knowledge there was going to be an eight-point quake in the Los Angeles area.
I think it's a big toss-up.
I'm not so sure they'd tell people at all.
jim berkland
Well, they would at least tell the government, and they'd say, cancel the leaves, the elective surgeries, postpone those, open up the warehouses, get ready to move foods, check all the batteries, check the reservoirs, that sort of thing.
art bell
Yeah, but the word would get out.
jim berkland
Yes, and that's why I don't think they've really had that.
You know, I've gotten a few rumors at times.
Well, they put all the fire engines outside of the fire station, which is one of the techniques.
And I've heard things about moving ships and so forth.
I remember my old seismology professor, Perry Byerly, at Berkeley, said one of his proudest moments is when there was some concern about an earthquake.
There was a prediction.
art bell
Yes.
jim berkland
And they said, should we move the fleet out into the Pacific?
And he felt this great sense of power that he never experienced before or since.
He said, no, no, in the harbor is the best place to be.
art bell
I guess it would be.
There'd be some protection there.
jim berkland
Oh, yes.
No tsunami if there were that problem.
Open sea is the best place to be for a tsunami where it's only a few feet high.
art bell
So if you were going to look for signs that they knew something we didn't know and they were getting ready for something big, what would you most look for?
jim berkland
Well, reports from the wives of the workers, the word gets out in their coffee clashes and so forth.
But a lot of times, you know, I've already had these reports.
They have just been rumors.
And that's one of the worst things to deal with, the rumors.
I had two little old ladies call me separately after Loma Prieta.
art bell
Yes.
jim berkland
They had heard that the seven was a foreshock to a nine.
And I said, no, no, no, that was a classic main shock, and the aftershocks will decrease in frequency and intensity with time.
And don't worry about it.
The worst is over.
But you need somebody to stem those rumors because they get way out of hand.
art bell
I've always wanted to know about that.
Are there foreshocks?
We talk about aftershocks all the time, but we don't talk so much about foreshocks.
How frequently do you have a, say, a six-point that's followed by a seven-point?
jim berkland
Well, then the six was a four shock, yes.
But you don't, you never can recognize a foreshock until you've had the main shock.
And a lot of this is pretty hard to pigeonhole.
About half of the California quakes of five magnitude or more have foreshocks.
art bell
Oh, they do?
jim berkland
Yeah, about half of them.
And they, like that Long Beach quake in 1933, the day before, there was about a 3.8.
Loma Prieta had two quakes of over five magnitude, one the year before and one two months before.
Interesting, too, I got a call from a fellow on Santa Cruz Mountains who got bedridden.
He could hardly stand for a couple of weeks prior to that quake.
He moved away to get closer to a hospital, and he got better real fast.
He went back on the mountain and he had a relapse.
So his friend was walking along the beach at Santa Cruz with the boyfriend in the waves, was barefooted, and all of a sudden she got this electric shock.
Large Magnet Mystery 00:03:04
art bell
Wow.
jim berkland
And she had to get up onto the dry sand.
And the foot that shock was occurring in was the foot in which a steel pin had been inserted.
Now, this may explain why the snakes crawl out of the ground and worms crawl out of the ground and fish jump out of the water and that sort of thing.
Maybe they are stimulated electrically.
art bell
Maybe they are.
Wildcard line, you're on the air with Jim Berkland.
Hello.
unidentified
Good morning, Art.
Good morning, Jim.
jim berkland
Hi.
unidentified
This is Smoke and Joe from Anchorage, Alaska.
All right.
Regarding the heat plumes, you know, that stand down.
Temperature anomaly, I guess it's Otis files.
Yes.
At the moment, I've been following a couple of plumes, and I think there's one right underneath Alaska at the moment because it's lit up all along the coastline like a corona.
And the other area that's lit up right now is Kemchatka.
jim berkland
Oh, well, yeah, they've certainly been having some big shakes there.
unidentified
The other thing is, I was cruising the web pages in University of Dundee.
Yes.
And they have a 14 Times.
I really love that website.
It's my favorite.
There was a blurb in there.
You know, it's Unexplained Phenomena website.
art bell
Yes.
unidentified
And they mentioned a report of a large magnet which temporarily lost its charge.
jim berkland
Interesting.
unidentified
Yes.
jim berkland
That's also in When the Snakes Awake.
And I've had a couple call me from Pasadena that their refrigerator magnets dropped off the refrigerator the night before the Whittier.
art bell
Oh, my.
unidentified
That is something.
jim berkland
Yeah.
And a jeweler in Tokyo had a big magnet hanging in his window with steel pieces to attract the public to look in and come on in.
unidentified
Yes.
jim berkland
And all of a sudden he heard clank, clank, clank, and he looked over and he thought the magnet lost its power and it had temporarily and then this big quake hit Tokyo.
art bell
My God, how could that?
jim berkland
Scientists say it's impossible.
They say it has to be in a field stronger than itself.
And the Earth's magnetic is only half a gauss.
Exactly.
But as Helmut Tribbage says, stop saying it's impossible.
When it keeps happening, try to explain it.
I mean, come up with the positives.
art bell
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jim Berkeland.
Hi.
unidentified
Good morning, Art.
art bell
Good morning.
Where are you?
jim berkland
Good morning, Jim.
This is Shane from West Texas.
art bell
Yes, sir.
chris-2 in virginia
Yes, I have a thought-provoking question that's been bothering me for quite some time.
With the tectonic plate shifting with a continental drift, I've wondered how is it the pyramids are still perfectly in line?
Central Reference Point 00:03:31
jim berkland
Because Africa has been the most stable landmass.
It's sort of the central area that everything else is relative to.
art bell
The answer might be they knew where to build them.
jim berkland
And it has shifted a tiny bit.
The pyramids are almost exactly north, south, and east-west.
Yes.
And they've explained it from being off about a half a degree or less by the movement of Africa.
But there has not been much.
art bell
All right.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jim Berkeley.
Not a lot of time, so we've got to do a quick one here.
unidentified
We'll give it a try if you will for San Diego.
art bell
Yes, sir.
unidentified
How's the LA quake going to affect us?
art bell
All right.
If there were a quake in L.A., how would it affect San Diego, depending on magnitude, of course, but say a seven.
jim berkland
Yeah, you're 100 miles away from downtown Los Angeles, and so the quake would have to be about a five before you'd even feel it.
And the farther you are away from the epicenter, the more of the energy goes into these long-period waves, a slow roller.
You don't get the real sharp jostling and everything that you do when you're up close.
So it's more of an entertainment.
art bell
You know, at the expense of the people to the north.
All right, Jim, we've done it, I'm afraid.
We're about out of time, Jim.
And I don't know what to say except, wow, what a program.
It's been a real pleasure.
jim berkland
Well, I'll be a little bit disappointed with this exposure if we don't get some kind of jolts to where I expect them.
art bell
Well, I hope you're happy, I guess.
Listen.
jim berkland
Well, keep them small.
art bell
This program, the one we're doing right now, is going to repeat Sunday night, Monday morning.
unidentified
Oh.
art bell
Oh, and then by then, we're going to have what?
unidentified
A full moon?
jim berkland
Yeah, the full moon is on the 30th, and it'll be the highest tides on the 1st.
And this is early in the window is the preferred time.
And I'm really expecting to hear about a number of events.
art bell
A number of events.
All right, so that we're clear, we're at the end of the program.
The window is between now and the 6th of July.
During that time, you said you expect with an 85% reliability factor, there will be three earthquakes.
Give it to us again, real quick.
jim berkland
3.5 to 6 magnitude quake in the San Jose, Los Angeles, and Seattle areas, and a major quake, a seven, around the ring of fire, which could possibly include the West Coast, Western America, but doesn't necessarily happen.
art bell
All right, my friend.
Well, by the way, in an earthquake, Jim, are you better off in a regular bed or a waterbed?
I've always wondered that.
jim berkland
Maybe under it.
I noticed that Mexico City, the desks kind of held up the ceiling.
Waterbed, you get a better ride for sure.
And there was a convention of doctors here when the quake hit, and they were hoping they could count on the waterbed having a similar reaction the next time they have their convention here.
art bell
All right, my friend, that's it.
We're out of time.
Jim Birkland, what a pleasure.
I'm going to give you the honors.
Do you know what they are?
jim berkland
Good night, America.
art bell
Oh, boy, you are a listener.
Jim, good night.
Thank you.
That's Jim Birkland.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Thank you all.
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