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June 12, 1996 - Art Bell
02:53:40
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - John Kierein - Why the Big Bang Theory is Wrong
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Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from June 12, 1996.
From the high desert in the great American Southwest.
I bid you all good evening, good morning, across all these many, many time zones, stretching from the Hawaiian and Tahitian island chains, on eastward to the Caribbean, in the U.S.
Virgin Islands, south into South America, north to the pole, worldwide on the Internet, this Is coast-to-coast AM.
Good morning, everybody!
I'm Art Bell.
It's good to be here.
And I've got all kinds of special stuff coming up for you tonight.
Number one, I would like to make an announcement.
A fairly major announcement.
The scientific report, preliminary, from the scientist working on what has come to be known as Arts Parts, Roswell materials allegedly crashed.
Very interesting materials.
As well as the newest bismuth material from the outer coating of this craft.
Well, the scientific report, the electron scanning microscope photographs, the spectrography graphs, and a full explanation are now available on my webpage.
There are There probably is a total of about six graphs showing this photography.
There are at least eight photographs up there, and the full scientific report is up there.
All of that, now, up on my webpage.
In addition, he says cautiously, we have had submitted yet a second photograph of what is purported to be a chupacabra.
That also is now up on the webpage.
So it's going to be a mad rush up there tonight.
But if you would like to see the science behind what's going on with regard to the materials and the report to date, there'll be a big update by Linda Howe this coming Sunday.
You need to go to my webpage.
If you want to see... I make no guarantees about these anonymously sent photographs of chupacabras, alright?
I make no claims about that at all.
But there is now a second purported Chupacabra picture on the webpage.
So we've got a lot up there.
The full scientific report, I would be very, very interested in your impressions.
The Chupacabra picture, laugh, or get the jitters, or do whatever you want to do, it's all on my webpage as of now.
My webpage is www.artbell.com.
Once again, www.artbell.com, and I would like, by fax or by phone call, your impressions of the scientific data.
There will be a number of people in science who will go look.
And it is a pretty doggone good presentation, if I do say so myself.
So, it took me about four hours to get it scanned in.
Then it took Keith Rowland probably an equal or greater amount of time to get it up on the internet.
So it's all there for you tonight with about a full day's work plus a little bit.
So there you have that.
I got a very, very interesting fax earlier tonight and I would like to read it for you now because it's going to lead into something I am about to do, or more accurately I guess we Are about to do?
Here comes a fact.
Art, I gave a paper last week at the American Association for the Advancement of Science in Flagstaff, Arizona that you could be interested in.
It shows why the Big Bang is wrong.
The redshift is due to the Compton effect that causes the light from distant galaxies to transfer energy to the electrons From intergalactic ionized hydrogen.
The lower energy photons have a longer wavelength, and therefore, a redshift.
The further away the galaxy is, the more electrons the light encounters, and the bigger the redshift.
This means the redshift is not Doppler, and the galaxies are not moving away from us.
Hubble actually agreed with the idea.
It also explains why the redshift on the Sun is greater at the edge than the center, because there are more electrons along the line, uh, the line site to there.
Yes, the Sun has a redshift even though it isn't moving away from us.
Compton himself knew that the Compton effect explained this phenomenon.
Quasars ...can also be nearby with bigger atmospheres of electrons than the Sun has.
With this explanation of the redshift, we are faced with a, quote, static, end quote, universe, filled with low-frequency radiation.
The pushing force from this radiation causes gravity.
This was written to me by a physicist by the name of John Curran.
He has a bachelor's of science degree in physics from Notre Dame.
His business BA from the University of Indiana.
And I've got him on the phone, and in a moment we are going to talk with him.
So stand by for that.
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When do you see this entire picture unfolding?
It's unfolding right in front of us.
The corporate construct runs our government.
And most importantly, they keep us on the two-party system.
As long as they can convince the American people that your choices between evildoers, the Democrats, or evildoers, the Republicans, they have absolute control of you.
The biggest threat would be a genuine third party.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from June 12, 1996.
Now, we're going to go down to Arizona and speak with the man who sent me this fax, John I'm learning how to hopefully get that right.
Is that close, John?
You got it perfect.
Alright.
You are a physicist.
You have been in this field how long, John?
Oh, well, I've worked in physics-related areas of aerospace for about 40 years.
And that is indeed your present field of employment, actually.
Oh yeah, right.
Alright, I'm trying to make sense.
You know, your facts was very interesting, but a lot of people out there are going to... their eyes are going to glaze over and they're not going to understand exactly what you mean.
Now, traditional theory says that the universe began with a big bang, which I guess says there was this densely compacted matter that exploded and in all directions sending matter And planets and suns and stuff out into space, hurling out into space, and that our galaxies, solar systems, are all moving out at a predictable rate.
And this is supposedly proven by observing the redshift.
Now, what is the redshift?
We're going to have to kind of go back to basics here.
Before we can challenge the whole theory, what is redshift?
And traditionally, what is the conventional wisdom regarding redshift, telling us that things are moving away?
Well, the redshift is normally thought to be due to the Doppler effect, which everybody uses.
The train whistle is an example of it.
If the train goes by, you can hear the tone changing in the whistle.
That's sort of the sound relationship of it, or comparison.
Okay, John, get good and close to your phone.
Okay, is that better?
Oh, that's much better, yes.
Okay, good.
What scientists have been measuring, the spectral lines of the elements in galaxies and other distant sources for many years, and when Hubble really first came across the conclusion that the more distant galaxies.
He was looking at the spectra there, and he saw that the lines weren't where they are here on Earth, but were
shifted to the red end of the spectrum.
There was a big preference for red or longer wavelength shifting of these lines than bluer wavelength shifting,
which is what you might expect if the universe had a random distribution of galaxies, some of which are moving towards
us, which would be shifting to the blue, and some which would
moving away from it and shifting to the red.
But he found that there was a very strong preponderance of redshift.
And, in fact, the more distant objects that he was able to get independent measurements of the distance had bigger redshifts.
And so he came up with the conclusion that there was a redshift-distance relationship.
Now, he did not believe, it turns out, that that was due to the Doppler effect.
He said that, in fact, even though he's credited with having discovered the Big Bang, He wrote a book called The Observational Approach to Cosmology that was a summary of some of his lectures that he gave at Oxford.
And in it, he said, you know, I don't think that this really is a Big Bang.
He said, if you had two galaxies that were equidistant away from us, and one of them was moving away from us, but the other was just sitting there, And somehow or other, if light was losing energy as it came towards us, you could tell the difference between the two.
Because one of them, the one that's moving away from us, not only is each photon that comes out would be stretched out over the distance during the time that it takes for it to generate its frequency of light, but the distance between each photon would Also stretch out, and so you wouldn't receive quite as many photons per second from one that's moving away from you than one that's sitting still.
All right, let me try this again.
The redshift then, conventional wisdom said, said objects were moving away from us, and blueshift would show they're moving toward us, is that right?
Right.
We are not thought to be the center, much as we would like to be, of what was the Big Bang, correct?
That's right.
I think Big Bang Theory has it that all galaxies are moving away from each other, and no matter where you stood, it would look like all the galaxies were moving away from you.
Would that in fact be true, or do they find some blue shift before we get away from this whole theory that would indicate something is moving toward us?
Well, there are some blue shifts that are observed, but very few of them.
But most Almost in every case, there's a redshift, especially from the distant galaxies.
And Hubble discovered this relationship that the more distant the galaxy, the bigger the redshift.
And that became known as Hubble's Law.
And when they interpreted this redshift as being due to the Doppler effect, that's when they thought the more distant object was moving away from you faster than a nearby object.
And that's when they decided, hey, if you look back far enough, Uh, it ran time backwards.
Everything would have all been close together, and now it's all spreading apart.
There should have been a beginning.
And they concluded, did they not, from this, that the edge of the universe was about 15 billion years out?
Is that roughly correct?
Yeah, basically that's, in the order of 9 to 15 billion years is the time from the beginning of the Big Bang, and that sort of would be the horizon that you would go to before, you know, things would begin to fade away.
Now, when Hubble He began to think about that, and decided that he could tell the difference, whether the redshift was due to a loss of energy as the light traveled along, or could tell that from a Doppler effect.
He said, you know, the object that's moving away from you, therefore, should be dimmer than the other one.
Right.
And the data didn't agree with it.
And so he says, you know, I think there's some unknown cause, which he called a, quote, That was causing the light to lose energy as it came toward us, and the greater the distance it traveled, the more energy that it lost.
Nobody listened to him then, because everybody became enamored with the idea of a Big Bang, and it was a very dynamic idea, and people began to get PhDs for studying what happened in the first couple of seconds.
And so, even though he wrote the book and paid the discovery and his credit with discovering the Big Bang, He didn't believe in it himself.
All right, this is going to be a dumb question, but does the Big Bang Theory embrace the concept that there was this dense ball of something or another, and nothing other than total empty space prior to the Big Bang?
Just space?
Well, there's another fellow who believes like I do, a fellow by the name of Grote Reber, who was really the very first radio astronomer.
And he tells me the story of when he was at Ohio State.
He went to a symposium where people were talking about the first few seconds of the Big Bang, and there was a graduate student there who was working on his Ph.D.
in physics who kept interrupting them and saying, what happened before the Big Bang?
And they'd say, well, that doesn't make any sense.
Yeah, but really, what were things like before the Big Bang?
Just an empty space.
And Grote said, they became so Agitated with this guy asking this question all the time.
The poor guy, there was no chance in hell he was ever going to get a Ph.D.
from those guys.
I see.
So that's a very bad question for them.
Yeah.
I see.
It didn't make sense for them.
Alright.
Now there are some theories that are related to the Big Bang where they talk about oscillating universes where things would have contracted into a big ball and then expanded and then contracted again and gone back and forth and could therefore have existed Theoretically for an infinite amount of time.
My idea is though, because I don't think that the redshift is due to the Doppler effect, but I think it's due to the Compton effect, which means that between galaxies there are free electrons that are floating around there and as the light interacts with these free electrons, it transmits some small amount of energy to them and comes off with a little less energy and therefore In that process goes to a longer wavelength and causes the redshift.
And so then I don't, you know, none of these ideas that have a Doppler effect redshift make much sense to me now, now that I have begun to understand how this mechanism would work.
Then if you're correct, everything has always been here?
Yes, I mean, well, there's no reason to come up with a beginning, because the whole universe could have been created a second ago with all of our memories, of course.
But there's nothing in this data that would indicate that there ever was a beginning.
It's sort of what some people refer to as the perfect cosmological principle, in that the universe is pretty much the same in every place throughout the whole universe, and all the physical laws are obeyed everywhere and not only now but also for all at
all times as well as at all places
so uh...
using that kind of a cosmological principle you can come up with a static
universe static universe it's always been
always will be yep that's what it looks like
uh... alright now what about this nine to fifteen billion miles out
do we find nothing beyond that or can we simply not see uh...
beyond that or Or are there fuzzy little things out there indicating that beyond this point, there is more?
Well, I think there's more, and what happens is that as you look out farther and farther and farther, the light gets shifted to longer and longer and longer wavelengths.
Until it's shifted out of the visible, and you no longer can see it there, but it then has gone into the longer wavelength, out into the radio wavelength, and you get a smooth background of very, very long wavelength, potentially infinitely long wavelength, but of course, infinitely long wavelength means zero energy, so it's totally lost all of its energy to the intervening material.
And so the whole universe is then filled with very low frequency radiation.
It turns out that this fellow, Grote Reber, that I mentioned earlier, who believed me, I wrote a paper when I talked about the red shift in the sun back about 1968.
And when you read that introductory paragraph where I talked about how the red shift is greater at the edge of the sun or the limb of the sun than it is at the center.
Yes.
And you made a very nice correlation with the number of electrons along the line.
Well, about the same time that I published this, and I said, well, you know, the redshift for cosmology, the general redshift that Hubble discovered, could also be due to the Compton effect.
There was a paper published by Grote Reber that said that the general redshift could be due to the Compton effect.
And he had an entirely different reason for thinking that.
I've been worried about quasars.
Turns out, Groke was the very first radio astronomer.
He was the only radio astronomer for about 10 years in the 1930s to early 1940s.
And he had, in more recent times, decided to extend his astronomy measurements out to very, very long wavelengths, 100 to 500 meters wavelengths.
And he built a very large antenna down in Tasmania, which is this island south of Australia, in which he Try to make these measurements.
And he found that this ionosphere opened up and created a hole there that you could be able to get this long-wavelength radiation to be measured.
And he discovered that the night sky was bright up at the pole of the galaxy.
All right, listen.
Hold on.
We'll come right back to it.
We've got a break here at the bottom of the hour.
And we will indeed be right back.
John Curine, a physicist, back with us in a moment.
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
I'm going to be playing the song called, This Is Not A Story.
This Is Not A Story This Is Not A Story
This Is Not A Story You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from June 12th, 1996.
John Curine, a physicist, is with us.
His degree in physics from Notre Dame.
He believes, he has proven, and is on the way to proving, that our universe was not initially begun by a big bang from a central point that in fact we live in a static universe where things are more or less with respect to each other galaxies standing still static not moving it's it would be a probably it's going to be very disturbing for a lot of people we'll get back to
John, in just a moment, and we will try to get the telephone open for you to ask questions, because this obviously, and we'll get into some of this, has a lot of implications for a lot of people's thinking.
Listen, when you get the phone number from what you're about to hear, do me a favor and write it down correctly.
People are getting dyslexic out there in the late hours, and I got a fax from some poor business that has been inundated with people trying to order our watch, the last of the watches, Are up for grabs right now and so take the number down please oh please carefully and dial carefully because you're disrupting other businesses.
We are giving out the correct number, but some people are just getting it mixed up a little bit. So copy it down
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You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
tonight featuring coast to coast a.m. from june twelfth nineteen ninety six
back now to john kirwan Jon, welcome back.
And, uh, where were we?
Well, I was describing Grote Reber's remarkable measurements that he made at these extremely long wavelengths, longer than anybody else had ever made.
And he had built this very large antenna farm down in Tasmania to make these measurements, and he discovered that the night sky was Extremely bright, except along the Milky Way and at the center of the galaxy, where there were dim spots.
So obviously this bright radiation that he was measuring was coming from outside the galaxy, and the galaxy was absorbing this radiation.
And this really puzzled him, because this radiation was really very bright, much brighter than the so-called 3 degree Kelvin background that people measure at microwave frequencies, or wavelengths.
If you wanted to consider it to be a black body like these guys like to think of as being a remnant of the Big Bang, This temperature would have been like 50 million degrees instead of just three degrees above absolute zero.
So he had some tough explaining to do to explain where this came from.
And then he finally came to the conclusion that there had to be electrons between the galaxies that were given off this radiation.
And somehow or other, they were picking up this radiation from someplace and picking up this energy in order to do this radiation from someplace.
And he came to the conclusion, the same as I had done, From an entirely different aspect, that it must be the Compton Effect that was causing this, that light from distant galaxies was losing energy to these electrons, and the electrons were then sort of heated up a little bit, and were radiating at these low frequencies, and causing this radiation.
So, I wasn't the only one who was saying that the Compton Effect was causing the redshift, and we came about it from entirely two different problems that we were trying to solve.
Would a static universe embrace the theory that things go on forever?
Well, there are... It turns out that before Hubble discovered this red shift, there had been many theories of the static universe that had been undertaken.
Probably the most famous, and one of the very best ones indeed, is the Einstein static universe, which is a description of what the universe was like.
And what Einstein did was he began to think about what would happen to what he called a test mass.
Just take a small test mass and he says, I'm going to shoot this out at a constant velocity and just let it go in free fall.
Just let it respond to only two forces.
Let it respond to gravity and let it respond to radiation pressure from the stars.
And he discovered that in his theory that he came up with that If you did this, eventually this mass would come back to where it started from.
And it would travel a distance that he decided to define as what he called the radius of the universe.
So there was just sort of a finite size to a static universe like this.
In other words, I've got to constantly try to bring you back to Earth here.
Sure.
If you traveled and traveled and traveled, it says you would come back to your point of origin, a circle.
Right.
He described this phenomenon as being like on the surface of a sphere, except he defined it as like a four-dimensional space that he had invented, such that it was a curved space that was closed This turns out to be the kind of a universe that is called a closed, finite, and unbounded, because there's no edge to it.
You don't fall off the edge.
You just sort of stay on a spherical surface.
But there's only a finite amount of area, or in this case, volume, in this universe.
And if you were off to the left a little bit, You'd have the same size sphere, but it may not be exactly the same sphere that you could observe.
So that was sort of an observable universe, but that was what he defined it as.
Now it turns out that there's an interesting phenomenon associated with this, and that is that the size of this static universe is dependent upon the total amount of mass, or the total amount of gravity there is in there, plus the total amount of radiation pressure that's in there.
And that would define the radius of the universe.
And after they discovered the Big Bang, they said, you know, we should have thought that maybe we should have predicted that there'd be a Big Bang, because this static universe that I've come up with here is not really stable to a process.
And by that, what he meant was, suppose we change the amount of mass in this universe By converting it to radiation, like you see the sun doing all the time.
It's slowly burning up its mass and converting it to radiation.
Correct.
Well, then you'd have more radiation pressure, and you'd have less mass, and then the radius would change.
Well, this would mean that the universe would either be expanding or contracting.
Turns out that if that's the process, it would contract.
But he says, well, we can always imagine that there's the reverse process going on that would cause it to expand.
And they said they could imagine it, but I couldn't figure out what it was.
Still, I began to think about it, Tom, and I said, you know, we've got a stability problem when we have a static universe here.
How do we keep it stable to processes like this?
And then I began to think of, well, let's look at this Compton effect process from the point of view of the electron instead of the point of view of the photon.
Now, what happens to the electron?
Well, it's sitting out here between all the galaxies, and it sees radiation coming from all directions.
And it wants to Pick up energy from radiation from one direction and basically move away from that radiation source.
But it sees some coming from the other way.
So it sort of sits there and it absorbs energy without a corresponding increase in velocity.
And it turns out, good old Einstein again, that V equals mc squared.
What happens to it while it gets heavier?
It increases in mass.
So we've got, what we do here, we have Alright, what would this say then about the composition of the universe?
being converted back into mass, and this sort of keeps the universe stable.
And it's this process that partially solves the static universe stability problem.
All right.
What would this say, then, about the composition of the universe?
In other words, would we, for example, be more or less likely to see from another planet,
another system, another sun, similar or dissimilar materials, the atomic scale and so forth and
so on, and we have aluminum here, we have certain other things, terrestrial, would they
be more or less likely to be present elsewhere in a static universe?
Bye folks.
Well, it's hard to say.
That's what really happens.
I mean, the laws of physics ought to be the same everywhere, and you would think the composition is pretty much the same everywhere.
But there are some things that do have a time arrow to them, and that is, you know, entropy is one thing that tends to increase with time, or sort of a disorder in the universe.
And it turns out that at this conference that I gave my paper, Grover Eber was there also.
He showed up from Tasmania, and his title of his paper was but keeps the universe from winding down.
And he'd been thinking about this problem also.
And so this conversion of energy into mass helps from not occurring.
So if that is the case, then really the kinds of materials that there are in the other systems
ought to be about the same as they are here.
Certainly in the nearby stars, that would be the case, but we're talking about more distant galaxies before we get to these kinds of problems.
Alright, in a static universe, explain to me a couple of things.
One, how, time for example, how does all of this relate to time?
Would, in a static universe, Time travel be more or less possible?
I guess I don't know that there's that much difference.
Certainly, you know, things are not getting farther and farther away from you all the time.
It would be easier to go from galaxy to galaxy, you know, if they aren't escaping away from you and that sort of stuff as far as regular travel is concerned.
Time travel, I'm not that up on wormhole theory and all that sort of stuff where people talk about jumping from one place to the other.
Have you thought about that at all?
Not very much.
I would not claim to be making any claims about the ability to do time travel.
What about gravity in a static universe?
Well, the other part of the stability problem was this business of the electrons getting heavier between galaxies.
And I think what happens is, as long as they don't bump into another electron, they just, until when they finally get to the mass of a neutron, they sort of become a neutron plus an electron, and generate more material there, and so as old galaxies die out, the material for new galaxies is formed to create new galaxies, and that's sort of how the universe winds itself back up again.
But, that didn't totally solve this stability problem.
It partially solved it, and it wasn't until I began to realize that if you had two masses that were separated by a distance r between them, and you have this long wavelength radiation, and theoretically it goes all the way out to infinite wavelength, it's very penetrating radiation.
I mean, you can receive your radio station here down in your basement, you know, because the wave will penetrate down into the basement, and the longer the wavelength, the more penetrating it becomes.
Sure.
Then, if you just had a single mass out there, why, if it had this bright background radiation that's equal amount in all directions, it would just sort of sit there and absorb this energy.
But if you had a second mass there, that second mass would attenuate that radiation so that the first mass sees less energy in the direction of the second mass than it sees from everywhere else, and so it gets pushed towards it.
And if the amount of attenuation is proportional to the mass, You'll get a force between these two objects, an inverse r-squared force that basically just is what gravity is.
And that turned out to solve the stability problem of this static universe.
So is gravity then a pull or a push?
It's a push from the outside, by a very long wavelength radiation.
People have attempted to quantize what the gravity force is, just like they quantize light and make photons.
quantize gravity and come up with graviton.
And so what you would have if you did that, thinking about this, is that the unit of force between objects would be
sort of the absence of a photon, or a hole in a photon field sort of thing, like a hole in a semiconductor that
people talk about when they do semiconductor theory.
And so the graviton, then, is just sort of the absence of a photon, or a quantization of the shadow that's cast by one
mass to the other.
And this sort of winds up being a unified field theory.
We've made gravity just be an aspect of electromagnetic radiation.
It's pushing things together.
Why then is there push only on A planet, in other words, why doesn't one experience this same push when we're free of the apparent gravitational field, I say apparent, of the planet?
Well, because you've got an equal amount coming from all directions and it cancels out.
You've got to have the presence of the mass there to act as a shadow for the push to push again.
I see, I see.
So once free of that, you've got it coming from all directions.
Right.
Is this, then, is movement, and it begins to get close to some theories expressed by Richard Hoagland, that there is what's called a zero-point energy that may one day be tapped.
Does that make any sense?
I'm stabbing around here in the dark.
Well, no, I think it does, because what this really says is that there's a preferred frame of reference.
You know, that identifies where gravity is effective or what an inertial frame is.
And that frame of reference is one that's not moving with respect to this low frequency background radiation.
So if you're moving very fast with that, you'll see that that radiation becomes brighter in the forward direction and dimmer in the backward direction.
And so you wind up being preferred not to move real fast with respect to that.
In fact, that's probably one of the reasons you can't go faster than the speed of light, because if you approach the speed of light in this frame, you'll get so much energy hitting you in the front end, it really slows you down a lot, which really manifests itself as being an increase in mass.
All right, John.
I've been reading over the Internet, and I haven't been talking about it too much, About the results, some rather surprising and shocking and unexpected from the tethered satellite experiment.
And I would think that that experiment would have some value in underscoring what you're telling us this morning.
Would that be true?
Well, it might.
As a matter of fact, it turns out that one of the aerospace programs I worked on was a program that was called CRESS.
I was the system engineering manager on that.
Exactly.
We tested for the combined release and radiation effect satellite.
We had some very long booms on that, about 100 meters from tip to tip, not anywhere near
as long as the tethered satellite was, which was 19 kilometers or so long.
We experienced some discharges on our spacecraft that were sort of unexplained.
It may be that they were picking up some of the ... They were acting like antennas for
this long wavelength radiation.
Exactly.
Could very well have been.
The tether ... Some of our scientists on the CREST program got interested in upward shooting
lightning, the so-called red sprites and blue jets.
Yes.
And they shoot up almost to the tethered satellite altitude.
At one time I thought perhaps the tether had been hit by one of these upward shooting lightning shots, but we discovered there wasn't any thunderstorms underneath.
It's a very interesting phenomenon.
Well, did it generate energy that they could not otherwise account for?
Apparently, that's what I'm hearing.
Yes, the voltage and the current that they saw were much higher than they had expected from cutting the Earth's magnetic field.
And that could only be explained by what you believe to be true.
Well, that might be part of it.
I'm not really sure if that's the only explanation yet, but that is an interesting thought.
I haven't really thought about that too much, but you know, that really is quite interesting because nobody else has really made, attempted to make measurements at anything longer than about 500 meters, you know, or about a half a kilometer.
So this is nearly 20 kilometers long.
It may very well have been picking up Some of this background radiation.
Do you know whether there are any other experiments of this type scheduled with future spacecraft?
Well, there are some people very much interested in doing it.
I think Dr. Papadopoulos at the University of Maryland made a big plea to do this, but I think it's falling on deaf ears because of the two problems that they've had both times they attempted to do this experiment, which was quite expensive.
So I don't think that at the present time there are any present plans scheduled.
Well, what I would like to do, if I can, is hold you over until next hour, and I'm trying to absorb a lot of what you've said, and I've probably got about half of it.
Well, it's pretty wild thinking, and it's quite controversial.
Well, there's another question.
How do your colleagues generally accept this?
Well, you know, it's very foreign to a lot of them, even though, you know, there are people like Compton, who's the Nobel Prize winner, who says that the Compton effect redshift was what caused the redshift on the sun.
Right.
And people wouldn't even listen to Hubble, who discovered the redshift, when he said it wasn't Doppler.
And it's a very difficult hurdle to overcome.
One of the main objections that they have is that they think that the Compton effect should cause The galaxy is to be blurred.
John, John, hold on.
We're at the top of the hour.
We'll be right back.
John Curran, right back.
The trip back in time continues, with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
More, somewhere in time, coming up.
The.
so so
so so
Premier Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 12, 1996.
You've got to get up to my webpage.
We've got a major report for you there on what's been come to known as Arts Parts or whatever you want to call it.
Allegedly crashed pieces from a saucer at Roswell.
And the report is a good one.
It is the Scientist's Report, complete with electron scanning microscope photographs, with the graphs of the spectrography done, and an explanation of what these things are.
Not so much what they are, because they don't know what they are, but what they are composed of.
So if you want to take a look at that, it's all up there.
There's also a second entry for a Chupacabra photograph, I make no warranty there.
It comes to me anonymously, but it is very ugly.
It's all now on the webpage, and that is www.artbell.com.
www.artbell.com.
And as some of you have absorbed this information, I would appreciate a fax with a comment from you on it.
It is a rather extensive presentation of the science that's being done, so you might know.
All right.
We'll get back to my guest.
I do have a guest, if you're just joining us.
John Kirine is his name.
He is a physicist.
His degree in physics comes from Notre Dame.
He also has a second BA from the University of Indiana.
He says, our universe is static.
That we did not all begin with a great big bang.
That everything is here and pretty much has always been here.
He's not moving away from us.
the redshift doppler theory is wrong and i would like you to be able to talk with him
and you're going to be able to do that in a moment coast to coast am sure sounds great in the middle of the
night But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
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Looking for the truth?
You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM.
Let's talk a little bit about the shadow government.
Do you believe it's there?
Yeah, we've heard that term, you know, for so many years and I thought it was this group in the Netherlands that sit behind smoked windows and make decisions like, you know, giant players of chess.
But it isn't.
We don't have the government anymore.
What we have is a loose coalition of bureaucracies.
But we have no representation in that government.
So when I look at the Constitution, I see it as a really inspired and eternal document that has been sidestepped in almost every legal way possible.
So the process itself has been intentionally manipulated to facilitate a certain style of government.
And it's taken a while to set up.
But I think it's set up now, and it's working just the way they like it.
We need a systemic change.
In order to let the Republic be representative of the people again.
Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
A bit of a challenge from Sean in Yucca Valley for you.
Welcome back, John.
Okay.
Listen to this.
Art, the discovery of the cosmic microwave background radiation and confirmation of the black body nature of its spectrum have presented overwhelming evidence for an initial hot and dense phase of the universe.
Cosmologies that do not include the Big Bang have not produced any plausible alternative interpretation of the background radiation.
Does John also believe in a flat Earth Or that the moon is made of green cheese?
Is he currently working on a prototype for a water-powered car or a perpetual motion machine?
I bet if you dig deeper, Art, you will find an anti-evolutionary, fundamentalist, Christian motivation for John's pseudoscience.
Pretty rough.
Well, you know, he's a big bang creationist as far as I'm concerned.
You talk about Christian beliefs and that sort of stuff, I guess.
You know, these creationist people who think that the universe was created in a big bang, they treat it as a religion.
And they won't really look at the facts.
You know, the 3 degree Kelvin background, when you extend it out to these long wavelengths that Reber's been measuring, is not 3 degrees at all, but it's 50 million degrees.
And I don't know how he explains that.
He only wants to look at a very narrow part of the spectrum.
John, are you a creationist?
No.
You're not?
Okay, you're not.
Well, I just wanted to clear that up, and had you been, that would have been all right, too.
Let's take a few calls, and I'm getting a bunch of faxes, too, so let's see what the people have to say.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Curine.
Hi.
Curine, make that.
Yeah, Curine.
John Curine.
Hello.
Hello.
All right.
Yes.
I was wondering...
Actually, I wasn't going to ask John a question.
I wanted to ask you a question about a guest that you had had on that you said you were going to have back on, and it was the man, the major, who worked for Sytac.
Major Dames will be on Friday night, Saturday morning.
This Friday?
Yes.
On Saturday morning?
Yes.
Okay.
Okay.
Another comment that I wanted to make.
My son lives in California, and he had been contacted by someone who said he was a part alien.
And that he had a clay type thing.
Alright, well listen, there would be another time for this.
I have a guest right now, ma'am, so.
Okay.
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Kirine.
Hi.
Oh, great.
This is Jennifer from Sonora, California.
Yes.
And I have a degree in Eastern Science, very similar to the Dalai Lama.
And in my studies, I studied ancient Hindu astronomy and I'm wondering if John has
looked into that and studied any of that because it's very fascinating and it gives the origin of the universe and how
it started according to their teachings.
Alright, anything John?
Well I've not really looked into that at all so I really can't comment on that.
Alright then try commenting on this.
The Andromeda Galaxy is blue-shifted, supposedly because it is moving toward us.
Now, how do you explain the blue shift?
Well, I think it's moving toward us.
Actually, it's one of the closest, if not one of the closest, galaxies.
And there is some local movement between galaxies, especially those that are nearby each other, and we do see a blue shift from that.
And I certainly don't deny the existence of the Doppler Effect.
In my work in aerospace, we use the Doppler Effect every day, and clearly that is a Doppler Effect that is going on there.
Okay, well then, if that explains movement toward us, and you admit there is movement, then why can there not be movement, and in fact should be, away from us as well?
Well, certainly there can be some movement away from us as well.
There's probably some local motion of galaxies.
You know, there are gravitational forces between galaxies, and some are Orbiting each other, and so there is this kind of motion.
But that's not what we're talking about here when we talk about the cosmological redshift, or the general, overwhelmingly, what I want to say is the proportionality of the redshift at distance that we see, and where you get these really huge redshifts.
In the case of quasars, for example, there are some quasars that have redshifts that shift the light by as much as a factor of three and four.
There's an interesting quasar case where there are two quasars.
I think it's 3C345 and NRAO112 or something like that.
These two quasars have strikingly different red shifts.
One has a red shift of about 0.6 and another one has a red shift of about 1.8.
So these are among the most distant objects ever detected if you believe that they follow Hubble's law.
Yet one of them is seen to be moving with respect to the other.
They've been making measurements over a period of ten years or so.
And it's a very small movement, but it's well within the amount of the measurement.
And you simply cannot explain how these objects that are that far away could possibly be seen to be moving in the sky with respect to each other.
They're both in the same field of view of the same antenna.
So, you know, it can't be an instrumental effect.
Alright, I've got you.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with John Curran.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
In this closed system model that you've created... Sir, you're going to have to speak way up.
Okay, in this closed system model that you've created, what would they do with static cling-ons?
They wipe them off, I guess.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with John Kirain.
Hi.
Hi, this is Rick in Albuquerque.
Hi, Rick.
And a very interesting guest.
I'd like to ask him a question about the galaxies that appear to be rotating and some astronomers tell us that there's a red shift from the side approaching and they are Receiving and a blue shift from the side coming towards us.
Can he detect the effect that he's talking about and separate it from these other kinds of red shift and blue shift?
Well, certainly I agree that a rotating galaxy will see that phenomena from the Doppler effect.
But they typically will have superimposed on that an overall red shift that is dependent upon its distance.
And it's that overall redshift that I'm talking about that's caused by the Compton Effect.
There's some very interesting examples of some stars, actually, that you can look at their light curves and see them blueshifting and redshifting such that they're obviously orbiting around each other.
They're binary stars, and yet one of them has a A bigger red shift than the other one does.
And so that would mean that one of them would be more distant than the other?
That doesn't make sense at all.
What I think is happening is that one of them has a larger cloud of electrons around it than the other one does.
And that's what causes the difference.
And they still can be orbiting about each other with this kind of blue and red shift going on.
Have you been able to come up with a definitive experimental test so that this will be apparent, analogous to Einstein's
bending of light that was passing close to the sun?
Yes, I think it's there, and in fact, if you go back and read Compton's paper, he wrote
way back in 1923 where he described what the Compton effect was all about, he talks about
the fact that there's a redshift on the sun, and if you look at the center of the sun,
you see a smaller redshift than you do at the limb, and if you make a calculation of
the number of electrons along the line of sight that you see to the center of the sun,
and then you see a thicker part of the atmosphere when you're looking out at the edge, because
you're sort of looking like you were looking at the horizon of the earth here, you can
see more electrons there.
And there is an exact correlation between the number of electrons along the line of sight and the red shift.
But this, I think, is the definitive proof that you've got a red shift that corresponds to the number of electrons that there are.
Well, you've got a big problem.
I think some people have adopted the present theory as a religion without realizing it.
That's the big problem.
It's going to be tough.
All right.
I appreciate your call, sir.
Just another layman question for you, John.
Sure.
If this push effect and consistent radiation that you say accounts for gravity near mass is present, even if faster-than-light travel is not possible, Wouldn't this energy or couldn't this energy be harnessed as a means of propulsion for space travel?
Well, it might very well be possible to tap that energy somehow.
In fact, I tried to do an experiment one time where I tried to take a superconducting material and see it go from normal to superconducting state and The idea being that if it became a superconductor, it might interact with this long wavelength radiation more strongly than otherwise and get heavier.
And so sure enough, we did that, and it got heavier, but we were also condensing the moisture out of the air at the same time.
So I don't think we really proved that we got that effect to occur.
It's not easy.
At first glance, it seems like you ought to be able to tap into this energy, but it's such a persistent energy of the coming from all directions
that it's uh...
not quite idiot personal and that you might think to be able to do that but
but i've basically done is just sort of derived newton's laws gave a reason for
it but uh...
it it still would be would be tough to tap into the energy from other that there
might be a way to do it maybe the test that like the answer alright here is a
here's a real left field question for you
uh... a number of weeks ago i don't do you frequently listen to the program
Yes, off and on.
All right.
I've had this material submitted to me, supposedly from the crash of a craft at Roswell.
Right.
The material that is said to be the outer skin of the spacecraft, which we have sent off now and received testing results on, is a combination of many, many layers of bismuth and magnesium.
At the micron level.
And there are scientists now that are speculating about this material.
We've talked to lots of industries that deal in bismuth.
It's kind of an unusual element.
And the speculation centers around the possibility that it may be either some sort of superconductor.
There are, I forget, 12, 15, 20 layers of this stuff.
It may have actually been a way of gathering energy while traveling through space.
Does any of that make any remote sense to you as a plausible theory?
Isn't bismuth used as a gitter to gather electrons in vacuum tubes?
Didn't they used to do that in the olden days?
I think that might be right, John.
It's possible.
Maybe they were picking up some, using that to capture some of these energetic electrons that are getting heavier and heavier as they are and tapping some of that energy that's stored in them.
That would be a fun thing to think about if you want to talk about speculation.
Yes, indeed.
All right, I appreciate the answer.
Thank you.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Kirine.
Hi.
Yeah, hi.
This is Kurt calling from Edina, Minnesota.
Yes, Kurt.
Great, great program, Art.
Thank you.
I wanted to say, too, that we've started a new band in this area called Expose Area 51.
And we've got a t-shirt, and we want to send it on to you.
All right, well, send it off.
Is that okay with you?
Yeah, it's fine.
Great.
I also wanted to ask if you could tell us any more about that Roswell part.
Oh, well, no.
If you'll go to my website, there's a complete report up there now.
But John is not involved in that.
I just asked him a question about it.
So send it off.
Glad to receive it.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Kirine.
Hi.
Hi.
This is Mark the Astronomer up in Seattle.
I've talked to you a couple times before.
Hi, Mark.
I have a question for your guest.
I would like to know how, I'm following you pretty well, but I'd like to know how this might affect the missing mass problem, if that would, because that seems to be one of the big problems in cosmology right now.
Yes, I think this might very well give some theory for where this missing mass is.
It could be in the form of these These ionized hydrogen that exist between galaxies, you see
the ionized hydrogen, when it gets totally ionized, all you have is free electrons and
free protons, so there really aren't any spectral lines that you can see from it, but you
can't really detect it from spectroscopy.
However, you know, that material there, which if it's really causing the red shift, and
if the electrons are sort of getting heavier out there between the galaxies, I've calculated
that it takes about one electron per 100 cubic centimeters, it should be sufficient to produce
this red shift.
This could be a count for this so-called missing mass that the people find that it necessary to account for some of
the dynamics of the galaxies that That are occurring not only for cosmological purposes, but
even to describe some of the motions of the galaxies Well, you know some have looked into the dark matter
problem as to to explain that is there any correlation with that that problem as well
Well, this would basically be dark matter because you know you don't really it doesn't glow except at these very long
wavelengths where you where?
Reber's been observing at
And so it's dark to the visible.
So you're assuming that our galaxy itself and some of the things that we're seeing in the Milky Way would be some of these electron clouds?
Well, there could be some associated with it, but most of these electron clouds are between the galaxies.
If you're going to get the red shift to be corresponding to the distance, you know, the more distant galaxies need more electrons along the line of sight than the more nearby ones.
Right.
And it's directly proportional to the number of electrons along the line of sight to produce the red shift.
All right.
We've got to hold it there, Caller.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Hold tight, John.
We'll be right back to you.
We're at another break point here.
Great.
All right.
My guest is a physicist.
His name is John Curine.
He believes we live in a static universe.
And we'll be right back.
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.
I'm going to be playing as a young man named Art Bell.
Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
My guest is John Curine from Arizona.
He is a physicist and believes in a static universe.
The redshift is wrong.
The effect is wrong.
We've all been misled.
It's not all going away.
It's just sort of with some minor movement more or less sitting there.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
tonight featuring coast-to-coast AM from June 12th 1996 back now to John Curran in Arizona
John, are you there?
I'm here.
All right.
We've got a lot of people who want to talk to you, so let's move through some calls.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Corrine.
Hi.
Hi.
This is Carl from Minneapolis.
Yes.
I have a couple quick questions for you, John.
Okay.
First of all, your theories of a static universe, your calculations, how does that affect, if at all, the notion of alternate universes or And the second thing I want to say to you is I think it's very curious that so much is being done on static universes because I have heard a number of people who have had what they call near-death experiences come back with knowledge and they say that the universe is static and it's always been here and I was thinking about this myself and I'm wondering this if we have detected black holes
And as of yet, not detected any white holes which should be there if nature is egalitarian.
Is it not possible that we can account for the motion of the universe and its eternal nature by the universe recycling itself through some point or points, in other words, coming out of itself?
Well, you know, a lot of what you say there doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but there still are a lot of other parts of it that are quite interesting.
You know, the idea that there are complementary parts of the universe of equal plus and minus nature, what you call white holes and black holes, sort of brings up the concept that is a question that I don't really know what the answer is.
And that is, is there an equal amount of matter and anti-matter in the universe?
Yes.
And if you ionized anti-hydrogen, you'd get the same effect, because it turns out that the Kaplan effect is independent of what the charge is of the particle that it's interacting with.
It only depends on the fact that it needs to be a lightweight, free particle.
It doesn't have any, it's not bound together as an electron or a molecule.
What about the concept of side-by-side universes?
Uh, those are interesting concepts.
I don't know that my theories affect them one way or the other.
All right.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with John Quirina.
I'll get it.
Yeah, we got it.
Good.
Hi, this is Matt from Laramie, Wyoming.
Hello, Matt.
I've got a question for you again.
All right.
Pretty straightforward, I think.
If gravity has caused our radiation pressure from the outside, if I understand correctly, Why is gravitational force greater on, say, a neutron star than on the Earth, both bodies being the same size?
It must relate to density.
Yeah, basically it relates to density.
All I've done really is to derive Newton's laws, and what this would say is that on a neutron star, the reason the gravity is greater there, even though there's the same amount of total amount of matter, It's that the radius is smaller and you're closer to the center.
So the closer to the center of the mass you are, the greater the force, the bigger, sort of the bigger shadow it casts to you.
It's an inverse r-squared situation.
And that just follows from that kind of a result, basically.
Does that make sense to you?
Well, that sounds a lot like what I learned in physics class.
As I understood from you, however, gravity was caused, according to your theory, by radiation pressure from the outside rather than the amount of mass under your feet.
Well, no, it's the radiation pressure from the outside that pushes you towards The mass, because the mass shields the radiation from the other direction, so that it becomes an unbalanced situation, and the more mass there is there, the more shielding it is, and the more you're pushed towards that mass.
This idea that gravity comes from the outside, it turns out, goes all the way back to the time of Newton, when there was a Swiss physicist by the name of LaSage, who came up with the idea that Gee, what causing gravity would be ultramundane particles, he called them, that were coming from outside.
Ultramundane meaning outside the Earth.
Mundane is the Latin word for coming from Mondo or from the Earth or whatever.
And so this is sort of an old idea, and it was even presented to Newton, and Newton was just sort of, he agreed that indeed that could look like it could Be a cause of it, but he didn't commit himself, one way or the other, to saying whether he agreed or disagreed with LaSage.
And then some later on, there were some people who basically have this very same idea.
There was a fellow by the name of Brush, who was the inventor of the electric dynamo and the carbon arc lamp.
And I think his Brush Electric Company was the first one to introduce street lighting to the world and all that sort of stuff.
When he merged with Edison, they became General Electric.
He, back in 1910, about the same time Einstein was propounding the theory of relativity, came up with the idea that long-wavelength radiation pushing from the outside must cause gravity.
I mean, he did this basically by worrying about the problem of potential energy.
As you began to lift objects higher and higher from the earth, and then pretty soon you got halfway to the moon and it lost all its potential energy.
Somehow, from those kinds of arguments, he came up with this very same idea that long-wavelength electromagnetic radiation was pushing everything together.
He did a whole bunch of experiments trying to prove this, and eventually he changed his ideas and decided that maybe it was short-wavelength when he saw that X-rays could penetrate matter.
Very interesting.
I find I can accept that concept as well as I can traditional explanations of gravity.
Interesting.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with John Curine.
Hi.
Hi, this is Mike from Tucson.
Hello, Mike.
I have a question for your guest.
What does he think about Sir Frederick Hoyle's steady state theory?
And another question, would the mass of the object being observed affect the light spectrum, the Doppler shift?
Okay, the first part had to do with Freddie Hoyle's study of state theory.
And Fred was on the right track when he introduced that.
He really felt what cheated him on this was what he called the perfect cosmological principle.
He felt that the universe ought to be the same at all times and all places.
And so in order to keep the density of the universe constant, he introduced the concept of creating mass from nothing, basically.
Uh, that he introduced between space.
He believed that the red shift was due to the Doppler effect, uh, so that as the galaxies were, uh, uh, separating from each other, as they sort of space-stretched from nowhere, out popped some mass.
Uh, like a spontaneous generation of hydrogen?
Yeah, that's basically what he came up with.
Uh, you know, that, I don't think, I don't need those ideas when I use that the red shift is due to the Compton effect instead of the Doppler effect.
And the universe is not stretching apart anymore, and so I don't have to introduce this concept, and I can still retain Fred's ideas of a perfect cosmological principle.
The other part having to do with whether heavier mass would produce a bigger shift, it turns out that the Compton effect is inversely proportional to the mass, and so it's a bigger effect for electrons than it is for more massive objects, like protons and so forth, which is 1,750 times as big as an electron, 1,747 or whatever it is.
And so the smaller particles, when the photons hit them, actually pick up more energy than the heavier particles, and so they produce the bigger redshift.
All right, caller?
Yeah, yeah, it's a fascinating show to write about.
All right, thank you.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Curran.
Hi.
Hi, good morning.
Where are you?
I'm not far from Portland, Oregon.
All right.
John?
Yes?
Just, if you would please, imagine that a model of the universe would include concentric spheres, and that on each concentric sphere there are positioned various galaxies in a pattern, a very crystalline
pattern.
If we were in the middle, and let's say that these concentric spheres are gradually expanding
outwards, if we were in the middle, near the middle of the universe looking out, would
there be any way to determine whether there is a red shift or a blue shift if everything
from your perspective is going away from you.
You misunderstand.
I don't believe that everything is going away.
I believe everything is static.
It's not moving.
But the light as it travels to us from these distant sources is losing energy to the intervening medium.
I believe there are free electrons between galaxies that are picking up energy from distant galaxies and the more distant galaxy loses more energy than the more nearby galaxy.
So I don't think that they are expanding.
The idea of the music of the spheres here, you're talking about the old pre-Copernican
view of the universe, I guess, that you're bringing up.
Well, it's based on a personal experience that I had as far as kind of an awareness,
you might say, and it's way beyond what the time constraints of this program would allow
to explain how I came at that conclusion.
But I just wanted to know if, as far as from your standpoint, if a person could observe what you have determined exists in a static universe, if a person could observe that phenomenon, or what you have determined exists in a static universe, in a universe where it is expanding.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Well, I think one thing that observations have been made, when Hubble did his observational approach to cosmology, when he wrote that book, and I referred to this very early on in the program at the very beginning, Hubble measured the distance to these galaxies, and he measured the red shift, and he determined that there was a difference between the redshift from an object that is losing energy than there is from the redshift from an object that's moving away from you, in that the object that's moving away from you should appear dimmer than one that's not moving away from you, because not only is each photon stretched out, but the distance between each photon gets separated, so the
You receive fewer photons per second from one that's moving away from you.
And so there is an observational way to distinguish between these two, and he felt that the data
was more consistent with the idea that the light was losing energy than it was that it
was moving away from you.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Curine.
Hi.
Hi.
I'd like information on how to obtain the paper at AAAS and other writings of your guest.
All right.
And also...
Would you comment on the astronomer Arp and his doubts about the red shift and learners
of the Big Bang never happened and also, Paul LaValle, that's recent beyond the Big Bang.
Sure, I'd be happy to.
There's an article that, a technical article that was published in an IEEE journal, IEEE
Transactions on Plasma Science, Volume 18, Number 1, February 1990, called Implications
of the Compton Effect, Interpretation of the Red Shift that I wrote.
It's a pretty good description of all of this stuff.
I think you'll find that quite interesting.
Commenting on ARP, I had some discussions with ARP back in the early 70s when he was at Palomar, and he made some very, he kept making measurements that kept Perturbing the heck out of the Big Bang Theory people, he discovered some galaxies that were connected to other galaxies, and yet they had different red shifts.
And he says, hey, these things look like they're clearly attached to each other, yet one's got a bigger red shift than the other one does, and which would mean one of them would be much further away than the other one.
How can they be attached and yet be separated in the distance so much?
He kept persisting in making these measurements.
This is real data that he's been getting.
And to the point where he got everybody so mad at him that they fired him from his job and ostracized him from the community, and he wound up having to go to Germany to be able to do any work.
He's working at Max Planck Institute in Munich now.
It was a very controversial result.
And Arp was one of the people who showed me some stuff that an Argentinian physicist had
done on the idea that the Compton effect caused the red shift back in those days, too.
I have reference to him in that paper I told you about.
John, do your theories... would you comment on whether you consider that life would be
a very common thing to develop along similar lines or dissimilar lines with dissimilar
conditions?
Would life throughout be common or would you think uncommon?
Well, you know, if indeed the universe tends to be pretty much the same everywhere, you know, we don't have this drastic situation of a Big Bang where it was extremely hot at the very beginning, but it, you know, pretty much the universe tends to be about the same everywhere.
It would seem that the conditions for life ought to be pretty common.
You would think so.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Curran.
Hi.
Hi.
If gravity is then created by radiation from outside external forces, Could it then be possible to create some kind of a shielding to that energy and then thus create anti-gravity?
Oh, very interesting.
Well, you know, when I first came up with these ideas, I did some real fun things trying
to do that sort of stuff.
I charged up some big plates with capacitors and practically burned down the house.
Oh, you did?
And tried to get some measurements like that.
There have been some things that some people have claimed to see some results.
There's some people who talk about electro-gravity where they try to convert static charge into
increases in mass.
If you do, when you do a shield, basically you're just creating the effect of having
more mass there.
So if you're attracted to a more massive object, you should be attracted to the shield.
And I haven't found out a way yet to create a shield that is any different from just stacking up a whole bunch of mass.
But it would be a real fun thing to try to do.
I'm very much interested in stimulating people's thoughts along those lines.
Maybe there's some breakthroughs we can come up with.
Maybe there are.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with John Kirine.
Hi.
Praise the Lord!
I've listened to you for about five years and never got on.
Well, now you're on.
I want to ask the gentleman a question.
All right.
I appreciate the fact that he said that the intensity of the light from the stars diminishes as it comes toward Earth because he said it was absorbed by electrons or whatever instead of the galaxy expanding.
Yes.
You know, the two, um... Yes.
Okay.
I've heard a theory that electrons are being spontaneously produced all through the universe Through whatever wall or dimension, I don't know.
And I'm wondering if you've ever heard of that theory, and I've never heard anybody expound upon it.
All right, where are you, sir?
Memphis, Tennessee.
Have you heard anything like that, John?
Well, that's basically the Hoyle theory that he was talking about, the so-called steady-state theory, where in order to keep the density of the universe constant, he just created the idea that mass would be created from out of nothing and just pop into the universe.
As the universe was expanding.
Now, of course, I don't believe that the universe is expanding, and so I don't need that mechanism to occur, but that is indeed a theory that was widely held and published for many years, and although not always accepted, certainly Fred Hoyle is a well-respected scientist.
All right.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Curran.
Hi.
Good evening.
This is Mark and Redding.
Hi, Mark.
John, I was going to ask you, You're familiar with the Casimir Effect, correct?
Not by that name necessarily, but explain it to me.
Well, the Casimir Effect was where two heavy steel plates suspended from a point above were placed in a vacuum chamber, and as they were brought closer and closer together, the so-called background electromagnetic radiation you spoke about presses, or pushed, These two plates together with a great amount of force, and it was believed that the cause of this was having to do with the difference in electromagnetic pressure on the outside of the plates, and the relatively less amount that was available between the two plates.
Oh, I've got you.
Very interesting.
So, in other words, John, your theory should be able to be proven by two large plates Place together and the some measurement made of the pressure.
There should be an anomaly in the amount of pressure on that between the plates.
Would that not be correct?
It is possible that that could be correct.
However, you know, you have to be very careful there that you're not just measuring the gravitational attraction between the two, just like, you know, in the Cavendish experiment.
Very true.
Listen, my friend, we're going to have to end it here, but I'm going to have you back.
It's been a blast.
I enjoyed it.
John, thank you very much.
Great.
Have a good night.
John Curine, a physicist, and that should give you a little food for thought for the rest of the morning.
I would say.
Let your mind roll over the possibilities.
A static universe.
One that did not start with heat and a big bang.
It sounds plausible.
We'll be right back.
The trip back in time continues, with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
More, somewhere in time, coming up.
The.
So...
So...
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from June 12, 1996.
Um, I'm going to review a little bit of news, uh, for you in a moment.
Uh, for the last two hours, we've had a physicist who believes in a static universe.
Fascinating stuff.
John Curine, his name.
Some of it, uh, hard for us to follow, but, um, If you strained, your mind may have expanded a little bit over the last two hours.
These items came to me today, all in a row.
From the San Diego Union Tribune, a 16-year-old accused of slaughtering, get this, five members of his family in Vista, made his first appearance in adult court yesterday.
Pleaded not guilty to murder and arson charges.
Sixteen-year-old.
Ordered held without bail.
He faces five counts of murder and one of arson.
If convicted, his maximum prison sentence would be 143 years to life.
Seems to me it ought to be the other way around.
Life to 143 years, just in case he would make that length of time.
Investigators said That he confessed to using a hammer and a knife to bludgeon and stab his parents, 50 years of age and 48 respectively, who were visiting from Las Vegas, his grandparents, 78 respectively and 74, and his 10-year-old sister Megan with an axe and set fire to their condominium where those killings took place.
This also from the San Diego Union Tribune.
Brace yourself.
A glance at a woman in the next car appears to be the only explanation that detectives have for a fatal shooting in Spring Valley early yesterday.
Creed Grote, a 26-year-old El Cajon salesman and father of one, died after he was wounded in the head, neck, and chest In the 1 a.m.
shooting near Fairway Drive, his passenger not shot but suffered minor injuries when Groat lost control of the Volkswagen he was driving in the car overturned attack was particularly brutal because of its apparent lack of provocation.
Pulled up alongside a Nissan car occupied by a man and woman while they were waiting for it.
next to him.
Hmm.
Shot to death for a look.
Oh, I'm telling you.
And then this.
To top it off, this is from the USA Today.
Today.
Police failed to save baby thrown from Alabama bridge.
Frantic efforts failed to save a baby tossed off a highway bridge Tuesday In Gadsden, Alabama, police officer Billy Vassar wept, he cried, as he climbed from the Coosa River, where he had made a desperate grab for the floating child, but emerged only with a tiny shirt.
Battling rain and high winds searched without success.
A caller reported seeing a woman drop a baby off the bridge.
The woman has not been found.
If this does not represent the quickening, then you tell me what it is.
If a 16-year-old dispatching his family as Liz Borden did in the old days, allegedly, with 40 whacks and more, is not the quickening, then what is?
It's shooting somebody because they glance at the woman Who is in your car is not the quickening.
You tell me what is.
is if throwing babies off bridges is not the quickening, then you be sure and tell me what it is.
You are listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM.
from june twelfth nineteen ninety six are a baby thrown off a bridge
of kids slaughters his family and someone kills because of uh... uh... because of the glance at a
girl in a car Where is the grand old deity while this is happening?
I think God's absence while these things occur is just more proof that a deity does not exist.
Signed, Mark the Atheist.
Louisiana.
And whenever something bad or a chain of bad things happen, Mark always calls up, excuse me, faxes, and says about this, you know, if there really is God, how could God let this happen?
Mark, I'm beginning to read between the lines.
I'm beginning to think you protest a little too much.
What, Mark, makes you think that a deity micromanages his creation?
Take that one over, Mark.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
I'm on the air?
I hope so.
With who?
Who did you call?
Art Bell.
Bingo.
Oh, I'm hearing another broadcast.
Well, that's because you've got your radio on and you know you shouldn't.
Oh, you're right there.
Yes, I am.
I'm just calling in regards to your thing tonight about a fellow named Creed who was shot.
Uh, yes.
Yes, I grew up with him.
You did?
Yeah, I did.
And I heard from my grandmother another story.
Incident.
Oh, what is that?
And that's that there was an exchange of words at that stoplight.
Well, that certainly was not part of the story in the newspaper.
In fact, it said it was only a glance.
Only a glance?
Yes.
You might want to check the San Diego Union Tribune.
This is in Santee, right?
Or El Cajon?
Uh, let me see, um, the San Diego Union Tribune is a San Diego newspaper, and the article is entitled, it's Friday, June 7th, entitled, Shots Kill Driver in Spring Valley, Passenger Hurt as, uh, car crashes.
Uh, now wait a minute.
That's wrong.
I'm sorry, I've got so many articles here, I'm trying to pick them apart.
Okay.
Oh no, that's not it either.
Alright, well I'm going to have to dig the article out for you, I'm sorry.
That's just fine.
I listen to your show all the time.
I just wanted to add real quick, and I think you're great, and I've been listening to you for about a year and a half now, and I'm just delighted with everything that goes on at this time of the night in radio nowadays.
Well, it's a little different, isn't it?
It is, very.
What do you think about that new movie, Independence Day?
You're talking to somebody who owns a copy of the script.
Oh, my.
That movie, the previews itself, I'm scared.
Yes, well, I think that's exactly what it's intended to do.
Thank you very much, and I'm going to have to... Alright, this was it.
I'm sorry, I had it right the first time.
The San Diego Union Tribune shot, killed driver, and Spring Valley passenger heard as car crashes.
And so you might want to look that up, sir.
It's Friday, June 7th, 1996, San Diego Union Trib.
Wells to the Rockies, you're on the air.
Yeah, Art?
Yes.
Yeah, this is Russell in Los Angeles.
Hi, Russell.
Hi.
First, I was wondering if you got that tape on that NBC thing I talked to you about a while back?
I'm sorry, I don't immediately recall what you're talking about.
Remember, it was Truth or Trash, and it was my friend, and it was the Panama invasion, and it was basically... Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.
That story is apparently absolutely true.
Yeah.
Did you get a chance to look at the tape?
Yes, I did.
How did you like it?
Extremely interesting.
Anyway, what I wanted to talk about was the black churches and this whole thing about Christianity and white separatism.
It just doesn't line up at all.
In fact, if you look at a little bit of church history, especially in this country, probably the greatest spiritual movement of the 20th century was something called the Azusa Street Revival in Los Angeles, and it was started by a black man and a couple other people, and it was pretty tremendous, and the whole modern Pentecostal movement came out of that spiritual movement.
Well, if you look at today's violence, almost all of it is done either in the name of God, a god, a deity, The Constitution.
Where it's done on the part of the government, on the part of people who would protest and make liens and cash hot checks and all the rest of it.
All of this is done by people who respectively waive religion and the Constitution in our face as they make their claims.
Correct?
Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Turn your radio off, please.
Art, this is Bill in Reading.
And I called you, oh, two and a half, a little better years ago.
Started to tell you something about, uh, uh, an experiment that was done in 1952.
And the scientists came out of Roswell.
Pieces you've got.
And about, uh, what Boeing was experimenting with now.
With a plane that takes and takes off conventionally.
Then goes into the ionosphere and refuels.
This was an experiment that was done in 1952 with three scientists, and they'd done a full mock-up.
Now, the men are still alive, and the experiment is going on now.
Where?
In Bowie, up in Seattle.
What are they calling it?
It's a closed project.
So they just called it a closed project?
I don't know what name they've put to it.
How can we prove this?
I could see if I could get a hold of one of the original scientists that was on it.
Alright, look, if you can do that, you put him in touch with me, I'll put him on the air.
Alright.
Alright?
Done deal.
Thank you very much.
First time caller online, you're on the air.
Yeah, that was quick.
I'm calling you from Reno.
This is Sam.
Reno, the most boring city west of the Mississippi.
Now, why do you feel that way?
Well, I just came home and I was, you know, looking around to have a bite to eat late at night.
I mean, it looks like we got one Denny's open unless you want to go to a truck stop.
It's pretty boring.
I got to say that.
But I got a theory.
I wanted to run by you.
And then I've got a proposal.
Why do you want to stay in a boring place?
I'm moving.
I'm thinking of moving.
I'm thinking of heading up towards Seattle, actually.
I'm headed north.
Okay.
34 years in this state, I think I've had it.
Gotta get out.
But I've got a theory here.
You'll be back.
How do we know, Art, that the Art Bell that we see online and that we see that go on the cruises and everything, is not really the Art Bell, but it's just the front, and maybe you're the Kuber Chabra.
That's chupacabra.
Well, see, I can't even pronounce it.
I could easily be... You know, you might be sitting there chomping away right now on the lampshade.
There may be no real art, though.
The whole thing may be... You know, this might be a front.
Here's my proposal.
I mean, haven't you ever noticed how I hardly ever make public appearances?
I know.
Anyway... Give strength to your theory.
Let me talk to you about a proposal.
You know, we've got the 4th of July coming up.
We've got so many problems in the country.
And I sit and wonder about it from time to time, you know, with the black churches burning, and the hate groups, and what's going on with the freemen, and on and on and on.
We had Randy Weaver up here last April taking part in a white supremacist convention up at the Hyatt Regency at Lake Tahoe, and the news media, I found it interesting, when they tried to interview him, He said, well, these were just friends that supported me, but they didn't really get into what they were talking about.
Well, as far as I know, Randy Weaver is not a white supremacist to start with.
He's a white separatist, sir.
Well, well, well, there is a big difference.
There is a big difference?
Yes, there is.
What is the distinction there?
The distinction is people who are white supremacists believe that white people are better than other people of other colors and cuts.
Yeah.
White separatists simply Choose to isolate themselves, but don't necessarily believe themselves to be superior.
That's the difference.
Well, okay, even given that, a lot of the people that attended that function were white supremacists.
I don't make that big a distinction with it.
But in any event, I'm wondering, now with the Fourth of July coming up, if we couldn't have some sort of a take an American to lunch or something.
I mean, I really, you know, we've lost this community spirit.
And how do we promote love?
How do we promote community?
How do we promote acceptance and respect of each other?
I mean, there is, you know, you hear on your program, you know, it's a delight to know that the majority of Americans, I believe, aren't bigoted, and they want to do the right thing and everything.
But like I just said, I just came home, and, you know, when you're traveling on the street, you look at somebody, you don't know whether, you know, they're going to think you're looking at them cross-eyed.
Well, from somebody... Or vice versa.
Yeah, I see.
The casual listener in Reno listening to you would not exactly get the feeling that you're promoting community.
Why's that?
Well, I don't know.
Your first statement when you began the call was, what a boring town.
Well, it is.
I do find it boring.
I understand.
If you're not into casinos and the casino life, it is a little boring.
There aren't the... Well, you're making my point.
Well, that doesn't mean that I don't like people.
I understand, but I mean, in terms of promotion, or the dragging down of your own community, you might consider what you could do to change Reno to be of your liking.
Instead, you're going to pick up sticks and leave and criticize it heavily at the beginning of your call.
So, I don't know, I kind of think you made my argument for me.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello, Art.
I'm driving down the highway.
Almost wrecked.
Uh, don't do that.
Where are you?
Uh, I'm in Kansas.
Uh, about north of Liberal, Kansas right now, coming off of a drilling rig.
Uh-huh.
Uh, the New American Desert.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it's always been rather dry out here.
About 15, 20 inches average rainfall a year anyway in this area.
Beaver, you know, down into Oklahoma, Texas, Panhandle, so.
Well, in that case, it won't take, uh, very much less rain to, uh, turn it into a total desert.
Uh, well, as long as the water table holds out and I can irrigate, we'll eat a little bit.
Well, if it doesn't keep raining, the water table will not hold up.
No, it won't.
They draw water out of the Ookalala.
I think that's the right way to pronounce it.
Aquifer, which covers back down into the Texas Panhandle.
And, uh, it's dropped a lot.
I don't know the footage rate.
I used to keep up with it, and I don't know what it is now.
I figure I'm ahead of the game, because I already live in the desert.
Yeah, that's true.
I had a few points I wanted to bring up, just kind of one-liners, I guess.
On these black churches, they've also been, according to Ken Hamlin on his talk show, 25 white churches firebombed or burned also, and so I don't know necessarily that this is the work of white supremacists.
If it is, I hope they catch them and And nail them to the wall.
Well, you know, I was beginning to buy into that scenario myself that Ken Hamblin was talking about.
Yes, sir.
But if a roughly equal number of white churches and black churches have been burned in the South, and you consider that the black population is about between 10 and maybe 14 percent per capita, there's an awful lot more black churches burning than white.
Oh, I agree.
I think it's irregardless, it's totally wrong, period.
But it's just something that has not been mentioned very much that there are also, I think a couple of days ago, what, 51, 26 black and 25 white congregations Right.
Whoever's doing it, I hope they catch the son of a... They catch him and they nail him to the wall big time.
Well, that's what they're trying to do.
That is, in fact, what they're trying to do.
And if any of you out there have any information that would lead to the capture of or the identification of people who are doing this, contact me.
Contact me.
And I won't say any more about it than that.
One could take the view that this is a general move against, this is an anti-religious move, period.
You can look at this as racially motivated, because even though there are nearly equal numbers of churches, white and black, that have been burned per capita, you'd have to have about 300 white churches burned to be equal to the number of black churches that have burned.
Think about that.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air. Hi. Hi Art, how are you doing? Fine, where are you? I'm in Texarkana, USA. This
is Mitch. You bet.
I wanted to talk, you know, how your ideas on Jesus and all that we talk about, or you talk about quite a bit.
I wanted to say I heard a song the other day that reminded me of you. I don't remember the name.
You might know it better than I do.
It's more of a late 60s, early 70s, but it goes to say, I swear there is no heaven and I pray there is no hell.
Well, those wouldn't be my words.
Well, I know it wasn't your words, but it reminded me of you when, you know, the way you talk about it, yes, sometimes, maybe, and, you know, you have your own little thing of the religion.
I just wanted to say that.
Don't most of us have that, our own concepts of what lies beyond?
Don't you?
You are listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
tonight featuring coast to coast am from june 12 1996 i hear the drums echoing tonight she has only whispers of
some quiet so
so so
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from June 12, 1996.
Tom Odie, morning to you.
I'm Art Bell, it's good to be here.
I want to remind you again, this is very important stuff, everybody.
The comprehensive scientific report on the parts that I have, Now looking very anomalous, particularly, boy, this bismuth magnesium thing is incredible.
Absolutely incredible.
The report is up there on my webpage.
Now, I spent the better part of yesterday morning very carefully scanning the electron microscope photographs.
Then I sent a whole load of stuff.
The report, The photographs, the grass of this photography done to Keith Rowland, who then spent the best part of his day preparing it and getting it up in a cogent manner on my webpage.
So for those of you who want to know, it's up there now.
The science is there.
And you can see the careful approach that was taken and has been taken thus far.
uh... and you can make your own determination and i i would like you to take a look let me know what you think by fax there is also a second chupacabra photograph up there alleged chupacabra photograph people will send me faxes and they will say man you've really been had no i haven't i don't warranty these anonymous photographs to be anything at all other than He said to me in the email that comes with it, you know, here's a photograph, I believe, of a chupacabra.
What am I to think?
I don't know what a real chupacabra looks like, so I can't know what a fake one looks like.
These are for you to decide.
These are just submitted photographs with no warranty from Art Bell whatsoever.
You make of them what you will, but I'll tell you, this second one is also very ugly.
In my opinion, not as ugly In some ways, as the first one.
Nevertheless, very ugly.
Both of them.
Absolutely, profoundly ugly.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hi.
Hi.
Yeah, this is Rob in Phoenix.
Yes, sir.
Yeah, um, I had a theory about the UFOs and stuff.
Um, were you talking about they were spotted in Mexico City?
They've been seeing UFOs over Mexico City, sir, for the last two years.
Okay, and then... On such a regular basis that people are almost bored by it.
Yeah, and they're also in, uh, what, Virginia?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and then Nevada?
Mm-hmm.
Okay, well, anyway, the theory I got is that, okay, in Mexico City, they have, like, really bad smog, right?
Yes.
Okay, and in Virginia, is there a lot of coal mining there, or...?
West Virginia, yes, mm-hmm.
Okay, and then in Nevada, they do a lot of testing.
Yes.
So, maybe the UFOs, um, are there, like, you know, watching, like, the damage being done to, like, the planet?
Possibly.
This is, like, you know, a theory.
As good a theory as any.
I mean, maybe they're going to liquefy Nevada.
Yeah.
West Virginia.
And turn the farms into a desert.
You'll be sorry.
My show will be over.
Well, they can't turn us into a desert.
Well, yeah.
Well, we're made of salt, so, yeah.
We're already a desert.
Yeah.
We're almost water, so this is dust us.
All right, sir, thank you.
However, if something turns, and ABC, again, ran a major story on this yesterday, ABC Evening News, that our farmland in the Southern Plains states may well be, according to scientists, right now turning into a new American desert.
I know.
I know.
It seems impossible, doesn't it?
It comes out of nowhere.
I mean, you knew there was a drought.
We all knew there was a drought.
But a new American desert where our farmland used to be?
I want to sit down and think a little bit about what that would mean.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
This is Rusty Houston.
Hi.
I wanted to tell you that I appreciated your guest earlier.
He was very interesting.
I found him very believable.
I know I've had nothing but complimentary faxes on that guest appearance, so he'll be back.
I was thinking it really might be fun to have him on with Hoagland.
Yeah, that would be interesting to hear them be able to discuss both of their concepts and theories side-by-side like that.
Did you get the same feeling I did that they probably or at least seem to fit together rather well?
Yeah, I think they would dovetail rather nicely because they both seem to conceptualize a lot of ideas.
They're common in a lot of ways.
In fact, I think they would support each other Yes.
Based on some of their beliefs and some of their conceptualizations of how the universe is and how things interact in the universe.
And I think they might well add to and enhance each other's theories.
Yes, very much so.
Very much so.
I wanted to comment that you received a fax from somebody that was decrying your guest and his comment was that He was possibly a creationist and a couple of other things, and that he thought that there might be an engine that runs on water.
Yeah, I know.
And I saw something this last week on Beyond 2000 on the Discovery Channel, and they were showing an engine that they're testing in a vehicle in Europe that uses a combination of, or combines two elements, hydrogen and oxygen.
Right.
And it runs on this.
That's right.
And basically, its byproduct is water.
Yes.
So you could, in essence, say that it runs on water.
Yes.
I just thought it was interesting that that guy was so far out there that he hadn't even heard of this.
I mean, I just watched this on TV and caught it by chance.
No, I know exactly what you're talking about.
And, of course, it separates the hydrogen and runs on that.
Yes, I know about that.
And I thought that it was appropriate to ask the question, make the allegation, and his answer was, I think, complete, and should have satisfied the faxer, and probably has the faxer scratching his head.
Well, if he's not a creationist, then where is he coming from?
I hope he listened to the rest of the program and tried to absorb some of what was being said.
I did not detect an agenda.
All I heard was pure science.
How about you?
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Yeah, uh, Tom Downing of Washington.
Yes, sir.
Yeah, um, I just want to know about, uh, basically your opinion on what you would do if you, you know, you caught a chupacabra near your front door or something, you know?
If I caught one?
Yeah, you know, one came through your front door and you just, uh, what would you do?
Would it knock or chew through?
I don't know.
Um, uh, what if it chewed through?
If it chewed through my door?
Right.
Well, then I would... Call on my alter ego and meet it head-on.
How would you like to meet up with somebody who sounds like me?
You'll let it live, right?
There's your answer.
Thank you for the call.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Uh, yeah.
Uh, Katie from Chicago, Illinois.
Hello, Katie in Chicago.
How you doing?
Oh, just fine.
Uh, you talking about the crops and everything drying up?
Yes.
Did you see the ABC report yesterday?
No, I didn't, but it doesn't surprise me.
Um, I think maybe it's got tied, it's got something to be, uh, tied into the greed of this country.
Um, the greed.
Yeah.
Greed.
Well, You mean nature reacting to greed?
Well, it's a prophecy.
It said that because of this country's... It said they were the breadbasket of the world, but because they were greedy, he would make them the beggars of the world.
Well, can you imagine if our farmland turns to desert?
Yes.
Can you imagine what will happen to this country?
Yes.
We feed, right now, a great deal of the world because we're able to produce so much food.
That's what I said.
It said that we are the breadbasket of the world.
We are.
And if this breadbasket dries up or turns to desert... We will be beggars.
The world will have to feed us.
I advise you to listen Friday night, Saturday morning when I have Major Dames on.
I heard it.
Well, no.
You heard it when he was on last time.
Yeah.
He's coming on it.
This will be again.
This will be new.
So I advise you to listen to that.
What station do you listen to in Chicago?
Um, I don't know.
I just got numbers on there.
It's between, oh God, 99 and something.
I don't know.
82?
All right.
Well, you've got us somewhere anyway.
All right.
Thank you very much for the call.
And the rest of you try to imagine.
If this breadbasket that feeds so much of the world, including us, dries up, what would the consequences be?
And according to the scientists in the report, it could happen in a very short amount of time.
Actually, they say, it may be happening right now.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
All right, it's Andy in L.A.
Hello, Andy.
How you doing tonight?
All right.
Have you read the book, The Dancing Wooly Masters?
No.
It is a lot of what your guest and I was talking about, and it puts the new physics into very plain terms.
Non-technical people like me can understand.
It's great.
I'm going to send it to you.
How did you like what you heard tonight?
You know, I heard the tail end of it.
I heard about the last half hour of it, and I found it fascinating because it's just about the same stuff that I'm reading about right now with gravitons and electrons and what have you.
I do have a technical question for you.
All right.
I know you're a technical guy.
The question is, is there any way to take a magnet And effectively neutralize one of the poles of the magnet.
In other words, I know that you have to have one pole in order to have the other, and that's what magnetism is.
But can you coat the back of a magnet, for example, leaving only one of the poles exposed?
You know what I'm saying?
Yes, I do.
I am not a physicist.
And I suppose that you could shield one pole of the magnet.
Right.
Yes, I suppose that could be achieved.
Would you happen to know, with your technical background, what sort of substances would, in fact, shield electromagnetic energy?
Well, it's not electromagnetic, it's just magnetic that you're talking about.
Okay.
Correct?
Fair, yeah.
No, and I'm going to leave that to my audience, someone in the audience to answer.
I will keep listening.
One other thing I wanted to mention is I'm the guy who sent you a little thing we like to call the Chupacabra song.
Oh, you sent that?
I did, yes.
And I wanted to tell you that I would be most honored if you would at all like to, if you want to put it on your web page.
It would make me happy and hopefully make other people happy because I know it's difficult for you to play songs on the radio.
Well, it's hard for me to play.
Whole song.
You know, whole song.
Yeah, that's right.
I rarely do it.
And I will consider putting it on the webpage.
Great!
Alright, thank you, Andy.
Take care.
Yeah, the Chupacabra song.
I've got it somewhere.
I don't know where.
Somewhere.
Then I've got the song about the greys, too.
I really like that one.
The Dana Ray Band.
Right.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Going once, going twice gone.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
KCMS, right in California.
Top Odie morning.
Did you miss me?
I think.
I did.
You know what?
Happy birthday.
Thank you.
It's coming up Monday.
I know.
Am I the first person to tell you that?
Well, maybe not the first, but... We're all the first person on the radio?
Some of the first, yes.
Oh, good.
You know what?
The reason you're craving a crystal ball is because you're a magician.
The reason what now?
The reason you wanted a crystal ball is because you were a magician.
Oh, I don't know about that, but I do have a crystal ball.
I know.
A real, a real crystal ball.
I know.
I'm jealous.
I'm insanely jealous.
You said it cost about $400?
And I can't even... Yeah, it was really funny.
Bob bought it for me.
Bob Crane.
And he thought... He got his currency all wrong?
And he thought that it was about 40 bucks.
No.
But what happened is, you may have heard the story, after he said he'd buy it, the whole family came out and they were celebrating.
They were having this big celebration.
And Bob couldn't figure out why, and somewhere along the line it hit him that they were celebrating his purchase.
They're having a feast.
So he couldn't, yeah that's right, so he couldn't very well go back on it.
So, do you think that The desert can become farmland then?
Well, why not?
I mean, if the reverse, if the other can happen.
Then it would begin raining a lot and our sand would be replaced by fertile soil.
Right.
And all of a sudden you'd be able to grow wheat in your backyard.
So what are we worried about?
Property values would go up.
Uh-huh.
You could have a pool.
Anyway, the way I figure it, I've got it made because if things are going to turn to desert I'm already there.
It's not going to make any difference.
That's the way I look at it.
That's good.
I like that.
All right.
Thank you, my dear.
That's the young lady we call Ten.
Do you know why we call her Ten?
For your reference?
Because one time I did what no other talk show host had done.
I did a survey of my audience asking, how many of the Ten Commandments have you broken?
And she called up and said, all ten.
All ten.
That pixie-ish sounding little voice has violated all ten commandments, so I call her a ten.
Now you know why.
Coast to Coast AM sure sounds great in the middle of the night.
But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
The Coast Insider is your key to a normal life.
For 15 cents a day, you can wake up refreshed knowing that last night's show is waiting for you with podcasting.
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The Coast Insiders Club is a must-have feature for all Coast to Coast AM listeners.
Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up today.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 12th, 1996.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Yes, I'm calling about Major Gaines and his predictions and everything.
Yes.
Yes, after I'd heard him a couple of weeks ago, I pulled out an old book of mine.
It reminded me a lot of what he said.
You might be interested in it.
It's called Phoenix Rising by Mary Semarang.
Sounds like I'd like it.
Yeah.
She was on that Ancient Prophecies, the very first one.
Oh, yes.
I looked up about the hot winds that blow across the land and will turn the earth into dust bowls.
It sounds like Pahrump will become a sinkhole because it will even dry up the artesian water in the aquifers.
Well, yeah, but it's in the Midwest, not here.
I mean, the climate change they're talking about is affecting a very specific area, the central part of the country, as it did in the 1930s.
So that doesn't mean that our aquifer here is going to dry up.
And we're already desert.
We know how to deal with desert.
Yeah, but doesn't Grump mean big water?
Grump means big water, yes.
But again, we are geographically located in an area that is not being affected by this climate change.
They're talking about the southern plains states.
Right, I understand that.
But, it sounds like... Quit trying to scare me!
Yeah, yeah, Marty.
I would suggest that you read this book and try and get Mary Summer Rain on Dreamland.
She talks about all this kind of stuff.
Do you know how to get hold of her?
Yes.
Through Hampton Roads Publishing Company.
And they have several books you'd be interested in, including Paul Hill's book about UFOs.
Paul Hill?
Uh-huh.
Paul Hill, Paul Hill.
Linda Moulton Howell mentioned him a couple of weeks ago on your Dreamland show.
That's where I heard it, yes.
And it's a scientific analysis of UFOs.
It's a very interesting book.
All right.
Thank you very much.
Sure.
Take care.
I'll look into it.
As I'm looking into so much, and by the way, when you try to go up to my webpage, again, I'm going to give you the address.
I tried it a little while ago, and it was so busy, it said network traffic wouldn't let me in.
So, if you can't get through tonight, try it tomorrow.
Try it tomorrow night.
Try it until you get in.
It's really worth seeing.
It's www.artbell.com.
That's www.artbell.com.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi, this is Charles and Madison.
Hi, Charles.
I'm listening to you on Real Audio, and I'm chatting on Merck, and I was wondering if any of the scientists who are working on the Roswell part had any opinions on what they thought of it, because I'm sure they've tested a lot of different things and what they thought.
Well, we're going to get that on the air.
What they think is, it is quite anomalous, the bismuth magnesium layered parts, and they think that the conjecture is that it may be some sort of superconductor, or some sort of energy gathering device, so that literally the skin of the craft gathered energy, maybe the kind of energy we were talking about earlier tonight, As it traveled.
That is the conjecture.
If you want to see the pure science, it's on my webpage.
Okay.
Have you looked there yet?
I haven't been there yet tonight.
I've been on IRC.
Well, um, chat less and look more.
I was doing both, but they've had a good discussion tonight.
I see.
All right.
Well, do go take a look at that.
The, uh, the real science is up there.
And, uh, so those who have criticized the real science has not been done on this.
Can, uh, We can go take a flying leap because it's up there.
We said we would produce it, and we have.
Go take a look.
www.artbell.com I am Art Bell, and we will be back.
You are listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
tonight featuring coast to coast a m from june twelfth nineteen ninety six
and the
So, I'm going to go ahead and get started.
the the
the the
It's good to be with you.
It's, uh, in fact, great to be with you.
A couple of facts I want to call to your attention.
Bring Your Networks Presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 12, 1996.
Good morning everybody. It's good to be with you.
It's in fact great to be with you.
A couple of facts I want to call to your attention.
One, Art, Arizona is not at fault regarding the time change.
It's the rest of the nation that screwed up as far as the hours go.
The rest of the nation, if they were smart, they'd say the heck with it and do the same thing as Arizona.
Now, who really wants to mess with changing the hours twice a year?
Doug in the Arizona desert.
Doug, you've got a good point.
I, frankly, am sick.
I've got clocks in my whole house.
Every twice a year, I've got to spend about Half the night, redoing computers, fax machines, VCRs, clocks, you name it.
I go through and I've probably got to 40 or 50 clocks of one sort or another and they're all critical and all have to be changed.
So you've got a very good point, Doug.
It's just that most of the nation is doing one thing and Arizona's doing something else.
Arizona may be smarter, but the difference between us We really ought to iron this out.
I really do think.
Now that would be worth doing.
Who would we talk to about this?
Ironing out this hours thing.
Really is a pain in the neck.
Art, in response to your comments about my previous facts, if God did create everything, then he surely has the responsibility to make sure that nothing bad happens.
And not to simply create and run.
He should micromanage.
If he exists.
Too many times people make excuses for a God not intervening in a crisis.
Mark the Atheist, Louisiana.
Mark, why must it be your way?
How are you able to judge and know the way God should be?
Where did you get that insight and power, Mark?
If God decided to create and then not micromanage, But allow something called free will.
Who are you, Mark, to suggest that he's got it all screwed up?
Just wondering.
He's to the Rockies.
You're on the air.
Good morning, Mr. Bell.
This is a socialist from campus.
Well, there's a... Boy, I thought you died.
Well, I've been out here in chupa-stupid land.
You say you're in a stupor?
In chupa-stupid.
A stupid.
My chupa's stupid?
It's not my chupa.
I don't know.
Mr. Bell, there's a lot of things you could talk about.
You know, they discovered another planet the other day around that star.
That's right.
And this one's only eight light years away.
That's right.
You know?
Well, you did have someone on here earlier today, this evening, this morning, and I didn't pay a lot of attention to him.
I should.
But so many of your people are out in the left field, you know?
You know, I'm not saying they're all wrong, you know, but I haven't got time to, you know, to waste on this awful loft theory.
Ron, whatever the case may be, I'm glad you are not dead.
Hey, I want to congratulate you on that show.
Believe it or not, that you did.
What is that?
Believe it or... where you voted people had a story that was true or... Truth or trash.
Truth or trash.
I tell you, I laughed myself silly that night.
I'm glad you enjoy it.
That's a good... You ought to open up those other lines, though.
What other lines?
Well, your 800 lines for that.
You only had one line open for it.
Well, for storytellers, yeah.
The rest of the lines were panel.
Judges.
Well, I had a humdinger of a story.
But I'll wait until... Well, I can't call in on those other lines, though.
Why not?
Well, I don't... My boss here...
Man, I work for him.
He doesn't fucking take in long-distance phone calls.
Oh, you mean you call me on company time?
On your company time, too.
Your 800 number.
Which brings up... We're paying for the call, but you call, though, on your company time.
Right.
I see.
Right.
Okay, well, what... You must have a very liberal boss.
I do, you know.
He's a great guy.
Wealthy, I like.
He's a Christian.
Some wealthy people can be Christians.
You accused me once before of hating rich people.
Actually, I have never met a rich person I didn't like.
That's the truth.
I like lawyers.
You know, out of all the lawyers I've met, I've yet to meet one that I didn't like.
That's really something.
Well, you know, you can't be accused of not providing comic relief.
Yes, sir.
Well, it's been nice talking to you.
I can't think of anything to attack you on tonight.
You're just laid back, you know.
You're hiding behind this Chupa thing.
You aren't talking politics.
I wonder if that's because you're so depressed because you're losing this battle.
What battle?
I told you, when you were all hyped up on that 1994 election, gosh darn, you should have stayed back and listened to me.
That was a very interesting election.
This one's boring.
You were all hyped up on this and I called you that night.
You didn't even want to talk to me.
And I told you then that this was the best thing that could happen to the Democrats.
For one thing, all these beweevils, these Southern Democrats, jumped ship.
So we kind of purged the party, if you will.
Purged the party, yeah.
You know, my theory was these people will expose themselves.
With regards to a purge, you've got a lot in common with other people who have countries that have purged.
You're going to relate me to Stalin.
I'm not a communist, even though my in-laws probably think I am.
Say it again.
I am not a communist.
All right, thank you.
We'll see how that settles in on the audience.
Yeah, that's true.
I was very excited in 94, even 92.
But I'm not excited about this election.
I'm just not.
I'm not excited by Bob Dole.
I'm not excited by Bill Clinton.
I don't even see what the campaign is really going to be about.
Maybe it will get exciting.
But that moment has not yet arrived.
I am More or less, crushingly at the moment, bored by politics.
How many of you feel the same way?
How many of you?
I'm just bored.
I don't see any decisively cutting issues or difference between the candidates.
With regard to things that do matter, like Medicare, they're both out to lunch and lying their butts off to us, you know?
It's going down.
Uh, in the out years anyway, no matter what they do.
Not tackling the really difficult issues of the economy and the debt and what it's going to do.
They're not even talking about that.
There's a mutually agreed pact, I believe, not to talk about the really important issues.
And so I'm bored.
It's absolutely boring.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Going once.
Hello.
Yes, hello.
Uh, yes, I was calling, uh, you know, about, my name is Ron, I'm calling from Stockton.
Okay.
And, uh, about, I was calling about those, uh, metal pieces that you had, I mean, uh... That I have.
Yes.
Yes.
Uh, you know, uh, about six or seven years ago, I don't know if you're aware, that, uh, the Space Shuttle, uh, they, they were gonna do a test or something, uh, experiment.
With these metals, of making them up there because they couldn't do it here.
Yes.
I don't know if that would help you out, because, you know, do you remember that?
I remember such experiments, and experiments with the manufacture of crystals and other things, yes.
Yeah, they said that they were going to pour these two ingredients together, and it was going to be like hard as steel, but like aluminum.
Mm-hmm.
And I was wondering if that would help you out any, you know, far back.
It doesn't help me out.
I don't, uh, I don't know whether this material is that or what this is.
Uh, we have a full scientific report on the materials, and I would suggest you take a look.
Yeah.
Okay?
Yeah, I just thought I'd call you and let you know, just because I heard you saying that, you know, maybe some help or someone, you know, from somebody.
All right, sir.
Thank you.
Well, what we want is interpretation.
We have results.
What we need now is interpretation.
With all of the people that we have talked to, for example, we have not found anybody that can account for the purity of the spike with regard to the aluminum parts, the hardness of the aluminum parts, the mixture of the bismuth magnesium.
Nobody knows of anything like that that has been concocted.
And so we need some help with the interpretation of the results.
In other words, what have we got on our hands?
What would be the use of this?
There are some very intriguing possibilities with regard to Bismuth.
Very, very intriguing.
So it's all up there on the webpage, which is www.artbell.com.
Write it down.
If you can't get through now, keep a trying.
www.artbell.com.
Pure science, the real work is up there to be examined.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hey, Eric in Nashville.
Hello, Eric.
Also board of politics.
You too, huh?
Golly.
So sick of it.
I just can't get engaged.
There's nothing to grab onto.
But you know, I was pretty hyped up about the 92 election, and I was in college at the time, and I wrote an article in the paper and all that, and my cousins All my family out in Virginia, that side of the family is like real liberal, and then my side, my mother and my father, we're real conservative, so every time we go out there into Virginia, it's like a big joke that, oh, don't talk politics, we'll all get into a big argument.
Last time we went out there in 92, we did get into a big argument about it, but last time we went out there last year, everybody was just like, eh, we're bored of it.
Take a hearing, take a talk about it, we're not going to change each other's minds.
And so why bother?
We believe what we believe.
And there's other things in life.
Yeah.
There's a lot more stuff that we can get along with.
And we had a lot better time when we got there and didn't talk politics.
Well, I might get engaged, but so far I don't see Bob Dole winning.
I don't see Bob Dole articulating any difference between himself and Bill Clinton.
I see Bill Clinton pretty much taking whatever Bob Dole does have.
I don't see them arguing the real issues.
I just, I'm not engaged.
Well, you know, if Bob Dole, the biggest weapon he could have would be to bring up anything that, all this Clinton, you know, all the problems with whitewater and all that.
And he's already said he's not going to do that.
Yeah, and he can't do that because people view that as mudslinging.
Even if it's true, they view it as mudslinging and think of it negatively, even if it is true.
And so it's kind of a catch-22.
He really doesn't have anything to fight with.
You're right.
I agree with you on that.
Also, this guy that called up earlier about his big bang paradigm was all threatened by your guests earlier.
I think it's hilarious that these guys can say that about Christianity or something else, but when it comes to their paradigm being confused or challenged in any way, they're as religious, if not more so, than any Christian.
It's absolutely true.
Fundamentalist.
No, it's true.
Absolutely correct.
Well, nice talking to you, Art.
Thank you.
Take care.
That's right.
Challenge the other guy's paradigm.
The guy behind the tree over there.
No problem.
Challenge mine?
Hey, I've got guns.
It is true.
All toes may be stepped on except for those which lay beneath these knees.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Oh, great.
Rick Meister, Gerhardt, conservative in California.
I'm not bored with politics, Art.
Of course you aren't, Hype Meister.
I'm bored with Chinga Cabra hypes, you know?
Right.
Gingle Meister, correct.
There's bigger fish to fry, like one is named Clinton, you know?
U.S.
out of Bosnia, U.S.
out of Haiti.
Wait a minute, wait a minute.
Bob Dole, the other day, said that, as a matter of fact, as far as he's concerned, the presence in Bosnia, the U.S.
presence in Bosnia, should be extended.
Isn't that a shame?
That's disgusting.
Now, there, Mr. Confusing Meister, is a real thing to think about.
There's a real difference for you, huh?
Well, that's why Rick Meister here voted for Pat Buchanan, because Pat Buchanan... You're not going to be able to vote for Pat Buchanan.
He's not going to be the nominee.
But at least I'm going to be able to pounce on the incumbent.
Now is that not correct?
You're going to be able to pounce on the incumbent?
Is that not correct?
How are you going to do that?
I'm going to vote him out of office.
By voting for?
By voting for whoever is in ABC.
Bob Dole you mean?
ABC.
Anybody but Clinton?
Anybody but Clinton.
I don't care if it's whoever you want to pick.
But fine.
You don't like Clinton so much.
Where's the alternative, Mr. Meister?
Well, we're just going to have to turn up the heat on whoever takes his place.
But, you know, like the crook that you do know is worse than the crook that has not yet had a chance to be the crook.
You know?
I mean, Clinton has to go.
That's great.
That's just great.
Sorry.
I'd rather talk about the chupacabra any day.
No.
I don't see the interest in this election.
Yeah, I don't much like Clinton either, and a number of things about Bill Clinton.
But frankly, I don't see much difference.
I really don't.
And the issues you named?
No difference.
None.
So, I don't know.
You're talking about the difference in devils.
That's not much to talk about there.
Mr. Meister, not much.
Thank you very much.
Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Premier Networks.
Music.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Oh yeah, very good.
Listen Art, two things.
Number one, my study of prophecy leads me to believe that there is an outside possibility of a limited nuclear war in the Middle East around the end of February next year.
And we'll just go ahead and mention that cursively.
If it happens, I'll get back to you and tell you why.
You're not by any chance the same man who I'm not making a prediction.
This is based on a fantastic set of mathematics that we don't have time to get into.
Oh, I understand.
Okay, but the second thing is, I've had this theory about gravity since, I think, back in 65.
I was checking my notes, and I think 65 or 68.
that gravity pushes you down instead of pulling you down.
That it's a combination of all electromagnetic propagation in the universe.
And you know, if that's true, that it does explain the 180 degree turns that vehicles can make,
because once you use that type of propulsion, you're not even aware of any movement,
because it pushes on every particle of your being at the same time.
It was a fascinating presentation.
It was the first time that I ever heard of anybody with credibility substantiating what I have suspected and experimented with for so many years.
All right, my friend.
Thank you very much.
Yes, it was fascinating.
And you know what I think would be fun?
I think it'd be fun to get John and Richard together.
I think these two men have more in common than might be apparent.
I wonder if John's heard Richard.
I should have asked him that.
But as I listened to the theory, little alarm bells began to go off.
With regard to a lot of what Mr. Hoagland has had to say, and others, by the way, with respect to the possibility of zero-point energy as well.
So I may go to work on that.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Yes.
Good morning.
Good morning to you.
This is Bill from Salt Lake City.
Hi, Bill.
I don't know whether this is a coincidence or President Clinton is listening to Major Dane.
Dane?
But he said in his little 19 minute episode that we will be suffering from epidemics and pandemics because of the bacterial problem that is being created and that the Poison Control Center and other laboratories won't be able to handle the problem.
Now President Clinton has allocated 250 million dollars to build Twelve centers for early warning of a disease.
A disease, yes.
Right.
Now, maybe they're not telling us the whole story.
Maybe.
Well, you know, that's exactly what I said the other morning when I read that story.
What do you suppose they know that we don't?
That we don't know.
Right.
So, nobody's mentioned that.
I think that we should consider.
Well, I mentioned it, sir, and I appreciate your call.
And with regard to the ongoing argument between, such as it is, and it isn't much, between Clinton and Dole, I don't even know what it is, I think those sort of concerns pale, I said pale by comparison, to predictions, for example, made yesterday on ABC from very mainstream scientists that our farm belt may be about to turn into a desert You want to worry about something?
Worry about that.
You want to worry about the nonsensical arguments between Bob Dole and Bill Clinton?
Go ahead and worry about that.
Uh, just, uh, don't blame me when something comes and kicks you in the butt from behind while you were worried about nonsensical arguments going on.
I'll tell you, uh, well, no, I won't.
I'll spare you.
I think I've already told you.
If politics suddenly gets interesting, you'll find me right back into the middle of it.
But right now, five hours a night of Clinton bashing or whatever?
Boring, boring, boring.
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
Tonight, tonight we're gonna make it happen Tonight we'll put all of the things aside
Give in this...
Tonight we're gonna make it happen Tonight we're gonna make it happen
Tonight we're gonna make it happen Premier Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time
Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from June 12th, 1996.
The most interesting late-night talk radio on the air.
Period.
I think.
Hey Art, the latest edition of the write-up on your webpage of Art's saucer parts is impressive, and I'm convinced you're trying to make metallurgists of all of us, if nothing else.
It is impressive.
The science is well done.
And, uh, we've been kind of holding out for this report.
So those of you who want to know about those parts and that metal, and it is very, very strange, go take a look.
It's up there right now.
The latest picture of El Chupacabra is a sham and you've been had.
No, I haven't.
You see, I just take what is sent to me and I put it up there on the webpage without comment.
I don't endorse it.
I have no idea.
I've never seen a chupacabra, so I wouldn't know one if I ran into one, which I surely hope I don't.
He goes on, I'm sorry to say, uh, that that was my third wife just before I left her.
And then he goes into a very detailed thing that I can't repeat here.
Uh, then there's one other item, and then I'm going to the phones.
It is this.
Alright, years ago, I remember reading about something called long-delayed echoes, or LDE, a mysterious phenomenon.
First noticed by radio amateurs working in the high-frequency spectrum during the late fifties.
Other operators were able to hear their own transmissions return as weak, ghostly echoes after a pronounced delay, usually five to ten seconds.
Alright, I would like to make a comment right now that I am familiar with this phenomenon, not with five to ten seconds, but operating on what's called the 75 meter band, Or around 3.8 megahertz.
I have noticed, and I run a high power, I run a full kilowatt on sideband.
I have noticed several times during my ham career that when I would let up on the mic, I could actually hear an echo of my own voice.
The last, oh I don't know, syllable or two of my voice.
And the mic click, in other words, when I would let up on the mic.
Now, 3.8 MHz should not propagate, and to the best of my knowledge, generally, it should not, does not propagate, particularly as loud as it was, so that such an echo could be heard.
I have no idea what causes, has caused it, but I have observed it no less than about five or eight times in my career.
And as recently as within the last year, there's absolutely no way to explain it that I know of.
People will say, well, it's going around the world.
Well, with the strength that it has been returned to me, even running a kilowatt, there's no way that I can imagine that such an echo could return with that strength from having gone around the world at that frequency.
I don't believe that.
There's something else at work.
I don't understand it, but I appreciate the facts, Joe.
And we know that radio travels at roughly the speed of 186,000 miles per second, so how could it possibly be?
Where in the world are those echoes coming from?
I don't know, Joe, but I observe, and he writes from Burbank, California, I observe that your observations are correct.
I observe that your observations are correct.
Hope that works.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Oops, would have been on the air.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Good morning.
Hello.
Oh, hello.
Yes, sir.
Turn your radio off, please.
Yes, sir.
I just did.
All right.
I wanted to ask you a question.
I haven't been able to listen to you for the last couple of days, and I was wondering when you're going to have that in-depth interview with Major Dane.
Friday night, beginning at 11 o'clock Pacific Time.
Oh, excellent.
If you can, I would like to get an answer to a question.
He said that he was going to be going south and west.
I know.
You want to know where he's going.
I think we are not going to get more of an answer than that.
No, that's not what I wanted to ask you.
He said before that the place to be would be places north.
to avoid problems with different diseases and so forth.
But he's going south.
And it's been kind of curious, it's been on my mind, I was wondering if you might be able
to ask him why he's going south and he recommends other people going north.
Well, it may be that he knows where to go and doesn't want to be crowded.
I have no idea.
It's an interesting question.
I'll ask him.
Okay.
I appreciate it.
I appreciate the show.
All right.
Thank you, my friend.
Take care.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello, Art.
Yes.
I would like to reiterate on something about Reno.
He's pretty correct in saying there isn't too much to do late, late, late at night.
Other than lose your money, drink it, or smoke it away in that town.
You should know you're by Vegas.
A lot to do in Las Vegas, sir.
Well, yeah.
It's getting to be more and more artificial, but it's really catering.
What are you kidding?
It's always been artificial.
It's Las Vegas.
Give me a break.
Yeah.
So it's just like Reno.
Very much the same in a lot of ways.
It's an artificial atmosphere, of course.
That's what it's meant to be.
If you don't want it, don't live there.
That's right.
I lived in Reno for five years, and I got out of there.
I picked up my sticks, like you said.
Where are you now?
Right now, I'm Andrew from Ashland.
Ashland, Oregon?
Yes.
And what is the nightlife like in Ashland?
Well, actually, there's no place to eat here after midnight.
No place at all.
You got your 7-Eleven and you're happy with that.
Well, you know, I suppose the grass is always greener.
Yes, it certainly is up here.
All right, thank you.
This is your first time caller, and I love listening to your show.
Well, thank you.
Take good care.
You take care.
People never like where they are.
It was an epidemic disease in the military service.
I used to laugh at it.
I loved where I was.
I loved even Amarillo.
I loved Amarillo Air Force Base, man.
I had a blast.
I had fun on Okinawa.
I always found a reason to enjoy where I was, and there are so many people.
That never, ever like where they are.
Never.
And it never occurs to them that the grass really is not greener, and so they jump.
And then they discover, well, gee, I thought Reno was boring, or I thought Las Vegas was boring.
These are not boring towns.
They really aren't.
It's all a matter of perspective.
And there's a lot to do, believe me.
I don't know a lot about Reno, but I know a lot about Las Vegas, and let me tell you, there is a lot to do.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
Hi.
Hi.
Turn your radio off, please.
Oh, sorry about that.
Caught me by surprise, like everybody says.
Hey, you keep me awake at night while I drive around Tacoma delivering newspapers.
I'm fascinated by a lot of things you say.
A couple of weeks ago, you had somebody on who was talking about the fact that you bring You've never brought more of a biblical perspective and you said you didn't want anybody preaching?
No, I said that I didn't want people quoting a verse.
Well, there is a gentleman called Chuck Messick, who I've been listening to recently, who has an interesting perspective that kind of comes along with Richard Hogan, a lot of them, but it goes along with Genesis, and it's fascinating.
He talks about the hyperdimensional physics and everything, and how modern science is now finally catching up with some of the old Hebrew texts and what they talk about with physics and things like that.
Some of the things I was listening to his tapes, and I thought, my gosh, this is some of the stuff that Hogan's been talking about, but he's bringing it out of the Bible perspective, and I thought you might be interested in Since he doesn't preach and things like that, but you have so many people that call in that talk about the Bible and have biblical knowledge.
I have no problem with that.
We probably talk about religion more than anybody else.
Yeah, you do.
A couple of comments I wanted to make to you is, you know the lady that called in and talked about the fact that God had separated the races and everything?
And a lot of people... Oh, you mean the purity of God's garden collar?
Right, yeah.
And she said she was a preacher.
Well, I get a kick out of so many of these people who really, you know, they... I guess they think that they really understand and they read between the lines of the Bible, but God never, never called for purity of races.
He called for purity of not worshiping foreign gods.
I know, I know, dear.
And she went back and read the whole book of Ruth.
She found out that Christ Listen, you need not, dear, argue this.
Thank you.
Believe me, you need not argue this.
It was so ridiculous on the face of it.
That was some call.
The lady claimed to be a pastor, and she called up, and she did okay for a minute or so, and it was your typical sort of preachy call about God and the goodness and the devil.
And then she started talking about the purity of God's garden.
How God intended for whites to be pure, and blacks to be pure, and browns and yellows to be pure.
And they should not mix.
And when you mix, you're violating God's law.
Boy, I'd like to hear that one coming at you on a Sunday, hmm?
**thunder** You are listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from June 12th, 1996.
12 1996 west of the rockies you're on the air
hi mr bell Yes?
Uh, this is Lorraine.
I'm calling from East Winnipeg, Washington, and I absolutely love your show.
Thank you.
Couldn't sleep without you.
Um, gee, now that I got through, what do I say?
Um, I thought your show last night was very interesting, to say the least.
Are you referring to the, uh, discussion on the, um, church fires?
Uh, a little of everything.
White supremacy and all this?
Oh, yes.
I think it's absolutely ridiculous.
Where would we be without the other colors in the world?
What do you think about the purity of God's garden?
I thought that was totally ridiculous.
I'm sorry, but I'm totally nervous.
I've got two half-Hispanic children, and like I said, where would we be without The color in this world.
Yes, indeed.
So, uh, I appreciate you being on air, and, um, I'll call you again some other time.
Please.
Thank you very much.
I appreciate it.
Purity of God's garden.
Ooh, where do these people come from?
Thing in his name, too, huh?
Write down those colors in his name!
Yes, sirree, sir.
Protect the purity of God's garden.
Yep, the jet streams probably come under the deck.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air, hi.
Good morning.
The other morning you were posing the question why some days seem to be better than others and why things fall into place so perfectly at times.
Absolutely, yes.
Well, for the very same as above so below reason that that occurs and things like why hatred seems to be getting worse and worse.
Because there's a gravitational relationship between the spheres within our solar system that when their innumerable possible angles, mathematical angles with each other have a different pull on the things that exist on those spheres.
Which is a more complicated way of saying, what's your sign?
Not really at all.
In the book by Frank Herbert Dune, there's a saying, it's an ancient Freeman saying actually that says, truth suffers from too much analysis.
It's just real simple.
If you don't see that the tide changes with the moon and if that doesn't go beyond the
moon then the concept doesn't apply anywhere.
And Keisha said if you know everything about peanut butter you know everything about everything.
One other thing is that we're all pumping air from the same place and if we're going
to have heaven anywhere else, we've got heaven on earth first.
You must have a few other one-liners for us.
I do.
I've got a slew of them.
I've been stuck on them.
Save them up or something?
All right.
Well, I thank you for the call.
Next time I have a bad day, I'll blame it on peanut butter.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
No, he's to the Rockies.
You're on the air.
Good morning.
Yes, this is Mark and Mattery.
Hello, Mark.
Hey, I'm about to deal with... You're not Mark the Atheist, are you?
No, sir.
Well, there is an atheist down there among you.
Yeah, I know, but he's called the Atheist of Louisiana.
Really?
Well, I mean, when he says it all the time.
When you read it, it's the Atheist of Louisiana, but I don't know what city that is.
Anyway, I wanted to kind of address the idea with the...
The universe, whether it's static or stationary, or expanding or contracting, more to the point, whether or not it was created, does have a beginning, or rather is eternally not, it's always been here.
One thing I don't know if scientists have thought about this, I'm not a scientist myself, but I do do a lot of
thinking about things, is that if the universe, now if I'm not mistaken, if the universe is eternal without any
beginning, then that would mean that everything in the universe, all matter, all energy, would have to also be
eternal.
That would mean that the atoms and molecules that make up various parts of our very Earth, although they may have at
one point come from some other source, but they would have to be eternal in age.
You couldn't age them.
You couldn't say they're 4 billion years old or they're 10 billion years old.
Yes.
There'd be no way of determining an age on them.
No, I would tend to agree with you, and it may account for our own eternal nature.
And so I'm wondering if it's possible at all, instead of trying to find that out, whether or not the universe has a beginning or not, or trying to find out sources way outside, If they just were to closely, closely examine the very nature of what we have here on Earth to determine whether or not it had a beginning or not.
Well, I imagine the answer is here somewhere.
Okay.
Oh, and one other thing, if I may.
A lot of right here, the hate movement today, you know, with the white supremacists, where they refer to, they get their hate doctrine from the Bible.
If I'm not mistaken, and hearing the various parts of it, I think what they're saying is that they refer to the black race as being the offspring of Cain, okay?
Now, there's one problem with that.
If you're going by the Bible, and that's what they claim to go by, the Bible says in that very book where it says that Cain was given the mark because he slew his brother Abel, that, well, the flood of Noah.
If Noah and Noah's wife and Noah's three sons and their wives were the only ones who survived the flood, According to the Bible, the nun of Canaan's descendants can be alive.
All right, sir.
I appreciate the call.
Thank you.
The answer rests with peanut butter.
Well, to the Rockies, you're on the air.
Oh, excuse me.
Hang on, Art.
Let me get the radio.
Yes, get that radio.
That's very important.
Hi, Art.
This is Dan from Wonder Valley.
Hi, Dan.
It's been a while since I called.
Well, I'm glad to have you back.
Well, in fact, it's been so long.
Welcome back from China.
That is a long time.
I'll be headed to Europe, uh, Moscow here, uh, around the first of August.
And when you get there, uh, let us know if the Red Square is really red and it's really a square.
I'll probably call you from Red Square.
How would that be?
That sounds cool.
How's everybody there?
Where you are?
I wonder if there's a phone booth in Red Square.
Well, there might be.
Well, anyway.
And push, push 7 for rock and roll.
Right.
Anything else?
Well, I mean, after all this time, surely you must have more.
Oh, a whole bunch of stuff, but, you know, I don't like to get off the wall too many places.
Why not?
Everybody else is.
Yeah, like a ping-pong ball or something.
Jet stream that's supposed to hit the deck?
Yes.
Did he say where?
Whereabouts in the country that it was?
We will specifically inquire about that.
No, he didn't say exactly where.
But I have a feeling it's probably going to be the farm belt.
Yeah, my mom was telling me it looked like another dust bowl, like the 30s or something.
ABC did a big story on it, said it's turning to desert.
Yeah.
Well, they haven't been always right.
No.
No.
Is Mr. Scallion going to come back soon, or do you know?
I don't know.
Yeah.
Well, I'm glad that he missed a few on the windows.
Well, he didn't.
That's the whole point of windows.
He said, If you listen carefully, sir, that his prediction would only be valid for North America if the cycle of four quakes occurred, and they have not yet.
Yeah.
I feel sorry for those folks up in Aleutian.
Yes.
Aleutian had that big one.
Yes, and then there was a big one off the coast of the Philippines as well.
With a ring of fire thing.
Ring of fire thing, yes, sir.
All right, thank you very much for the call.
Have a good morning.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello?
Yes, is this Art?
Yes, it is.
Uh...
I was listening to you talking about how boring politics is.
I heard someone say the other day about Mr. Lamb.
Is he a senator?
Do you think politics is exciting right now?
No, I don't, but I wanted to hear more about The Lamb would be running on a reform ticket.
Uh, Spiro Agnew would... Spiro Agnew?
No, that was wrong.
Excuse me, I'm 80 years old.
You have to remember.
Well, that's all right.
The way politics is going right now, we might as well have Spiro Agnew running.
The little guy with the big ears, Ross Perot, would run with him because of money problems, you know.
Listen, my dear.
Um, my program is over, and, uh, it has been a long time since I've had anybody 80 years old take the honors.
Do you know what the honors are?
Yes.
Alright, well then, let her rip.
In Peoria, it is not night, it is morning, so good morning, America.
From Peoria, Illinois, is that right?
Right.
Alright, Peoria, good night.
Good night.
And, I guess, good night, America.
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