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May 3, 1996 - Art Bell

02:33:17

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Wayne Green - Ham Radio, Cold Fusion, other topics

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	Uh, but I was inundated yesterday with calls.
	Uh, they of course had an earthquake, as you know, in Washington.
	Yep.
	And it was, uh, very sharply felt up there.
	But fortunately, uh, not strong enough to throw people out of bed.
	No, indeed not.
	Alright, Wayne, uh, let us begin at the beginning, because a lot of people don't know who you are.
	Never heard of Never Say Die.
	Probably aren't hams.
	Don't even know what ham radio really is, except Sort of in an obscure way, you know, every time there's an emergency or a hurricane, they've always got a ham on the screen communicating with the people that otherwise could not communicate.
	Other than that, a lot of people don't know a damn thing about ham radio.
	Well, I think maybe it's CB or something.
	That's right.
	That's an eternal kind of sore point with me, by the way.
	Well, golly, it shouldn't be, because if I were getting started today in amateur radio, or in radio, I should say, That's the first place I'd turn.
	Unfortunately, there's many people that turn to things like that and then don't figure out how to go on the next step.
	Amateur radio is certainly a big step ahead from CB, where you can just talk over a short distance and have a lot of interference.
	But with amateur radio, we can talk a long distance and have a lot of interference.
	A lot of CB'ers, Wayne, a lot of CB'ers think it's impossible.
	You know, they think, I can never learn the code, there's just no way I'm ever going to get a ham license.
	But it's not true, is it?
	Well, I point to, we've had kids four years old get their ham license, and I say, you know, is that really beyond you, fella?
	We have girls seven years old that have extra class license, the highest class license that we've got.
	You've heard about the phenomenon of the shrinking male brain, Wayne?
	Mm-hmm.
	And sperm count.
	Well, there's been some good news on sperm counts are up, brain cells down.
	Anyway, look, what do you say to somebody, other than a little girl of four can do it, why should they want to be a ham?
	Why in this modern day and age should they want to get a ham license?
	Well, there's a couple of reasons.
	Of course, it depends somewhat on your age.
	But it does make it so that it is one heck of a lot of fun to learn about electronics and electricity, which provides one heck of a good career path these days for younger people.
	And for older people, it's a way to never have to ever be lonely again, because you turn on the switch, no matter where you are in the world, and you've got friends right there to talk to.
	Yes, that's true.
	That really is true.
	I listen to a lot of people, older people, talking on 75 meters.
	Sometimes I'll just sit and listen.
	It's obvious that these are people connecting with other people that otherwise would be home alone, in front of a TV, not talking to a soul.
	Well, loneliness, I don't know if you've ever felt it, but sometimes, in the past, Before we had little handy talkies that we could take along, I'd go to some city that I hadn't visited before and I'd sit there in the hotel room and I'd say, boy, I wish I had somebody to talk to.
	Well, so I know what the feeling is and it's a terrible feeling of loneliness.
	With amateur radio, if I have my little handy talkie along with me and it fits in my shirt pocket, no matter what city I'm in, in the world, I have people to talk to right there.
	Another thing people say is, I can't afford it.
	It's too expensive.
	And sure enough, Wayne, if you go look through your magazine, or QST at the ads, and you were to go out and buy brand new equipment, it's not cheap.
	Well, by golly, you can get yourself a little handy ducky for two meters for around $200.
	Brand new.
	And of course, if you shop for used, you can outfit a whole station for $1,000 with awfully good equipment.
	Or you could buy used equipment.
	I'm talking used.
	Oh, I see.
	Okay.
	Yep.
	I'm talking about a nice transceiver, a small tower, an antenna, a rotator, and so forth, so that you can not just talk over a few hundred miles locally, but you can talk just about anywhere in the world.
	Well, you've done a lot of what are called de-expeditions, right?
	Well, that's one of the fun things that we have.
	I've had a life of adventure, mostly as a result of my interest in amateur radio and getting on a ship and going to a desert island with five other guys for a few days to set up ham equipment on this island and make as many thousands of contacts as you can in that short period to give everybody A card saying I contacted that country.
	That's fun.
	You know, I think we talked about this before, Wayne, it seems like we did, but I've been a ham since I was 12 or just almost 13.
	And there is a serious good old boys club in ham radio.
	And it's a it's a kind of a networking deal.
	And frankly, Wayne, a lot of jobs that I've had in my life have been as a direct result of ham radio.
	You know, you run into somebody who interviews you, he's a ham, and you've got the job.
	Oh, me too, my golly.
	For instance, I got interested in amateur radio teletype early on.
	And one of the teletype, other teletype pioneers, got me a job with the Guggenheim Museum on a Guggenheim grant, building a color organ.
	And if you're familiar with the Guggenheim uh... museum in new york and that strange mushroom shape
	the reason that building was designed that way to have that color organist the center
	uh... feature of the uh... museum and that's the project i was working on there you go one
	more example a lot of jobs uh... it's been ham radio has been very very good to
	me when it did brought me into commercial broadcasting now
	we're gonna break here at the bottom of the hour but when we come back when i'm
	going to ask you Why people say, you're crazy.
	All right?
	Right.
	Do you think you can handle that?
	All right.
	Coming up in a moment, why so many people think Wayne Green is out of his mind and have thought that for years.
	And he may come back and prove it in a moment.
	You're listening to Arc Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 3, 1996.
	This is a presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 3, 1996.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast A.M.
	from May 3rd, 1996.
	Welcome to the program, those of you who join at this hour.
	Anything is possible tonight, anything at all.
	Who knows?
	But then again, that's kind of the way I like it.
	Now we take you back to the night of May 3rd, 1996, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Thanks for watching!
	All right, now back to Wayne Green.
	Wayne?
	Yeah?
	All right.
	A lot of people, including somebody who just faxed me, said you're crazy.
	You've done things over the years that absolutely, verifiably, have got to put you in a loony bin.
	Why do people say that about you, Wayne?
	Well, I think it's because I'm a little bit out of step as far as time goes with everybody else.
	And I seem to be able to figure out what's going to happen in the future.
	It kind of helped the world get there a little bit, and of course that goes against the grain
	for an awful lot of people and they say, ìOh well, heís nuts.î When I spotted the idea
	of repeaters for amateurs, which we now all know comfortably as cellular telephones, I
	said, ìGee, thatís something that I think people are going to really get a lot of fun
	out of and it has all kinds of potential for making a major industry.î
	I started publishing articles one after the other on how to set up these automatic relay stations for hands.
	Now repeaters are on large buildings or on top of mountains and they simply allow you with a little handheld, you know, small radio to communicate literally hundreds of miles.
	That's right.
	So I started publishing articles on how to build those and how to use them and the readers of my magazine responded enthusiastically saying, we don't want to see any more articles on that or we'll cancel our subscription.
	And, uh, I wrote in my editorial, and I said, no, you're wrong.
	And I published a few hundred more articles.
	Why were they afraid of repeaters, Wayne?
	Why were Ham scared of repeaters?
	Well, it wasn't so much scared as, uh, oh, that's just baloney.
	And, uh, they weren't used to it, and it's out of the ordinary for them.
	So, um, therefore, I'm crazy.
	If Ham's had been meant to have computers, why God would have built them on their backs?
	Right, and if Ham's had meant to be used CW, they would have learned to whistle.
	That's code, folks.
	Right.
	And also, what I very much remember, Wayne, is when computers began to come on the scene, and you started doing all kinds of articles, and then you even devoted a magazine to computers before computers were considered to be anything at all, and they thought you had lost your mind.
	Oh, of course.
	Well, my success with repeaters, which turned into cellular telephones, told me that, hey, you can move the world a little bit with your magazine.
	So when the first microcomputer came on the market, which was January 1975, I immediately started publishing articles on computers in 73 Magazine.
	And five months later, in May, I started putting together the first publication I devoted entirely to computers, which was Byte Magazine,
	which you'll see on the newsstands.
	It's one of the largest magazines in the country.
	I started that in May and the first issue came out in August of 1975.
	I started my second magazine, Microcomputing, in 1976.
	And in 1979, I started the first magazine specifically designed for one computer, which
	was the Radio Shack TRS-80, which was one of the largest selling computers in the country
	in the early days, and still would be if they'd paid any attention to what I told them to
	They lost billions and billions of dollars by ignoring me on that.
	And again, a lot of people hated you for what you did with regard to computers.
	Again, they wrote in, I'm sure, and said, you keep this up, we're canceling.
	Oh, sure.
	How many times has the subscription base of 73 been up and down and up and down?
	Oh, golly, it goes up and down all the time, and I just don't pay much attention to that.
	Unfortunately, I have a very weak point in my character, and that is I'm not money-driven.
	And I just don't really care how much money we're making.
	The idea is to have enough to do things and make things happen.
	Yeah, how come you're not king of cellular?
	Well, I help make it happen, and that's my satisfaction.
	I'm not the king of compact disks, either, but I help make that revolution happen, too.
	By starting a compact disc magazine just almost as soon as the first compact disc came out, known as CD Review.
	And of course, it's one of the largest music magazines in the country.
	Well, how come you get all these things launched and yet you don't get a piece of them?
	Seems like you ought to be getting a piece.
	Well, I never pay much attention to that.
	I get them launched and then a major publisher comes along and says, we want to buy it.
	And I say, OK, go ahead.
	Do you buy it?
	And I do well.
	All right, let's see.
	For a man so into computers, here's a piece of email from a ham.
	It says, I really like old Wayne.
	Read his magazine because of his editorials.
	He's always talking about keeping up with the latest, even Fusion.
	We'll talk about Cold Fusion.
	But I don't see any email address in 73 Magazine.
	You ought to chide him about it.
	Why is there no email address for Wayne Green?
	Well, I don't need the aggravation.
	You can reach me through design73 at AOL.com, but don't.
	Don't, huh?
	No, I got involved with radio teletype back in 1949 and helped pioneer that, published the first articles and then the first books on the subject, and that's what got me into publishing.
	I mean, it was just like email at the time where we had, you know, maybe 50 amateurs all around the greater New York City, and you could sit there with a teletype and talk to any of them at any time, day or night, and I kind of got that out of my system.
	It was a been-there-done-that thing for me.
	You're not on the ARRL Board of Directors, right?
	No, that's correct.
	I'm considered the major enemy.
	Since I've been a member for almost 60 years.
	Alright, the Amateur Radio Relay League is one of the, I guess is the largest ham organization.
	It's been sort of the traditional old line ham representative organization forever and you are not exactly their favorite guy.
	How come?
	Well, I keep chiding them about the things they ought to be doing as the major, you know People in the field, they have a responsibility to help promote the hobby, and here we have what right now is kind of a dying hobby, and I think they ought to do something about that, and I know what they ought to do, and I can explain it to them in the editorials.
	Well, explain it to us.
	What should be done?
	If Amdo Radio is slipping a little bit, why is it slipping, and how can it be fixed?
	The reason it's slipping is because 30 years ago, our beloved ARRL put forth a rule change, proposed a rule change to the FCC, which virtually killed the hobby.
	And what they proposed was that all amateurs would have to go down and get re-licensed and take a new exam and so forth in order to hold onto their privileges.
	And the amateurs responded by a large percentage of them selling their equipment as quick as they could for anything they could get for it, which reflected by putting almost, well, put 85% of the ham radio dealers and stores around the country out of business within a year.
	It put almost 100% of the manufacturers out of business within a year.
	And it killed off almost all of the ham radio clubs.
	Back in the late 40s and all through the 1950s, we had over 5,000 school radio clubs around the country, and these were responsible for getting new hams.
	And in those days, ARL did a poll and they found that 80% of all newcomers to amateur radio were teenagers.
	Indeed, 50% were either 14 or 15 years old because they were in high school.
	And this is where the clubs were.
	Well, this whole infrastructure got blown away within a year by that proposed rule change.
	And we've never rebuilt it.
	Alright, it's actually something that was called incentive licensing.
	Yeah.
	And I was overseas at the time, Wayne.
	I was CARA 6BK on the island of Okinawa.
	oh yeah i visited their back in nineteen forty nine where you are uh... so i i had
	been operating you know that i have full privileges j i could go from the bottom
	of the cw band on side and all the way to the top of the american band
	and uh... when i came home uh... i found out i had a general class license at that
	time i found out suddenly almost all of my privileges has dried
	up had dried up and uh...
	incentive licensing and i was so angry wayne that i almost marched on a double rl headquarters
	I couldn't believe they had done this to me while I was gone.
	Well, I was here fighting it every inch of the way with some of the hands supporting me.
	And of course, the dedicated, devoted A.R.L.
	members fighting me and hating me, and that's the way it went.
	But I did have a partial success.
	If you take a look at it, the general class does have half of the phone bands now.
	The A.R.L.
	proposed that they lose all of the phone bands, and I fought that and fought it and got it so that you only lost half.
	Well, today, that's your relationship with them then.
	Does that still affect your relationship with them today?
	Well, I have a pretty good relationship.
	I know the people down there quite well, and we're good friends.
	But that doesn't mean that they're going to invite me in and say, be on the board of directors.
	Yeah, I wouldn't hold your breath for that.
	i'm i'm a competitor and uh... they are primarily a business organization and so
	every advertisement that i get for seventy three magazine they view as a
	loss to them well i'm sure it is
	is.
	So that's right, you're a direct business competitor.
	Right.
	No question about it.
	How is 73 going?
	Is it going well?
	Well, we're doing quite well.
	We've got about 100,000 readers.
	We're moving along.
	I haven't made any major efforts to build the circulation or build advertising, but because I've been mostly interested in doing other things like this Cold Fusion project and so forth.
	All right.
	Well, we're about to talk about that.
	But what is 73 doing these days?
	In other words, it's gone through various metamorphosis of computers and, as you pointed out, repeaters.
	And so today, what is your magazine concentrating on?
	Well, I'm still trying as I did back when I started the magazine in 1960.
	The idea was to encourage amateurs to build things themselves and so we're still having as many articles as I can get on how to build small projects and have a lot of fun and how to build kits and so forth.
	So people can still do that.
	I thought that day was almost over.
	I mean, you open up modern equipment and look at it these days, and number one, you need a magnifying glass to see the parts.
	Well, we don't build major transceivers much anymore.
	No, not at all anymore.
	But we do build an awful lot of small gadgets that take maybe a night or a weekend to build, and it's an awful lot of fun to have a little, let's say, a little low-powered transceiver that you built yourself over the weekend and you get on the air and you make contacts all around the world with it, with 10 watts or 5 watts, and this little tiny box that you can put in your backpack and take with you on a trip and throw a wire up into a tree and be in contact.
	And that's a lot of fun, and there's a number of those little kits on the market, and they're very reasonably priced.
	All right, let's talk a little bit about propagation, Wayne.
	My AM radio stations depend on propagation, and people living away from a big 50,000 water know that it goes in and out, and in and out, and fades, and so forth.
	And these are conditions similar to those conditions on shortwave.
	And all of this is affected by an 11-year sunspot cycle.
	Activity on the sun, is it not?
	Oh, yeah.
	And we are at a historic low point, I believe, aren't we?
	This is a minimum, and that means that some of our... We have a number of amateur radio bands, different groups of frequencies that we can use, and each one of those amateur bands, as we call them, bands of frequencies, has different propagation characteristics.
	In other words, if I'm on The 20 meter band, which is the most popular of the shortwave amateur bands.
	After a few days of using it, I know that at this time of the morning, I'll be able to talk to Japan, and then a little later, I'll be able to talk to South Africa, and then a little later, I'll be able to talk to South America, and so forth.
	And we know where those reflective layers that the sun builds for us up there on the, up above the earth, We know about where they're going to be.
	And you get used to that.
	On the lower bands, we have an 80 meter band.
	We know that during the daytime, we're not going to make contacts very far, but at night, we can talk coast to coast without too much difficulty.
	You bet.
	As a matter of fact, I do a lot of 80 meter, 75 meter work.
	meter seventy five meter work all right
	when uh...
	where is it going uh... from here Where is ham radio going from here?
	I imagine by this time we would have geosynchronous satellites in orbit and all sorts of things that have not happened.
	Well, of course, geosynchronous satellites cost a lot of money and there is no source for that money for amateur radio.
	We do have a couple dozen satellites up there, amateur radio satellites.
	That we can use, but they're not all talking with each other, making it so that we can make contacts all around the world 24 hours a day.
	Let me ask you a very controversial question about one of those artificial satellites.
	The Mir.
	The Mir space station now has on it an American woman.
	And she is operating the Russian equipment.
	And it is my understanding, or there's been an allegation, that she is not a licensed ham.
	You know anything about that?
	You heard about that, Wayne?
	No, I haven't, but it doesn't surprise me because several of the astronauts have, you know, questionably gotten their amateur licenses.
	Period.
	Right.
	In other words, it's not who you are, but where you are?
	Well, it is in many countries.
	I might say most countries.
	Well, as a matter of fact, the leaders of some countries are him.
	For example, I believe King Hussein of Jordan.
	Yes, I don't think you're going to be able to name very many others.
	By the way, I know a king who's famed quite well, who operated his hab station from his palace.
	Barry Goldwater.
	He's not a leader of a nation, but he's a big figure.
	Right.
	We have some pretty good names on amateur radio.
	Yes, Barry Goldwater.
	And golly, he's been a good friend of mine for 30, 40 years now.
	Barry Goldwater had a very famous conversation uh... with a with with a certain general named lamé.
	You heard about that?
	uh... no i haven't but of course i knew uh... general lamé quite well.
	i have that conversation on tape as a matter of fact of barry goldwater not the conversation itself but barry goldwater saying that he asked general lamé about right patterson air force base and general lamé cut loose with a string of invective and said don't you ever ask me about that again now uh...
	What was upsetting him?
	Well, it was about the supposed alien artifacts from Roswell, and I just can't imagine Curtis LeMay reacting that way if there's not something to it.
	Well, there have been several TV programs recently on the Roswell deal.
	And they didn't leave an awful lot of wiggle room as far as the question of whether a UFO crashed or not.
	Well, it's interesting.
	Listen, we're going to break here toward the top of the hour, but when I come back... That's one of the reasons I'm crazy, by the way, is that I do look into these things and read about them and take them seriously.
	Well, that makes me crazy.
	Right.
	In 1989, two research chemists announced they had triggered a nuclear fusion reaction at room temperature, cold fusion.
	Now, I recall that there was a big hubbub, and I mean, it was sort of like, here it comes, the savior for the world, cold fusion, cheap, available power.
	It was on all the networks.
	And then it all fell apart.
	Other labs tried to duplicate it, my recollection is, and they couldn't.
	And we had story after story after story saying, no, it's a mistake.
	Cold fusion does not work.
	And it's still being debated today.
	But what do you say?
	Does cold fusion work?
	Yes, it works.
	And boy, does it work.
	And of course, yes, there were a few labs that were unable to duplicate the results that doctors Pons and Fleischmann reported back in 1989, but we've found now that some of those labs fudged their figures because it didn't work.
	Hold that thought, Wayne.
	It's a good hook.
	It's what we call a hook.
	And we'll come back and talk about that right after the news.
	Wayne Green of 73 Magazine is my guest.
	And when we come back, we're going to talk about The story that fell apart that should not have, because Cold Fusion is real.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 1996.
	Green for two hours.
	This is a replay of the Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 1996.
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired May 3rd, 1996.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Good to be here.
	We'll fill you in, uh, in the one o'clock hour, or about an hour from now, on some of the latest survey results that I gave the earlier audience.
	I've got a couple things I want to, uh, tell you about right now, and then it's back to Wayne Green in Cold Fusion.
	And that was for your cat.
	Watch your cats, folks.
	Now we take you back to the night of May 3rd, 1996, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	And now...
	All right, back to Wayne Green now.
	Wayne Green is the editor-in-chief, chief guy at 73 Magazine.
	Is that right, are you editor?
	Yes, I'm editor, publisher, janitor.
	Janitor, yes.
	All right, ColdFusion, we were about to take off on that, and I really want to know, and a lot of the audience wants to know, because gee, Wayne, gas prices are hitting new highs.
	If we ever needed energy, we need it now.
	Does ColdFusion really work?
	Yes, it sure does.
	As a matter of fact, I believe within a year, you're going to see the first ColdFusion-powered products on the market.
	And I think they're going to have a small unit which will act as a heater for buildings.
	I got a call recently from one of the readers of my Cold Fusion magazine saying that he had tested out the idea on his kitchen table.
	How does that work?
	How might we duplicate that experiment?
	Well, you can do it with a couple of nickels in a sodium mixture.
	And put a little voltage on it, and you'll find that after a while, it begins to generate a lot more heat than you can account for.
	And, you know, you can put a thermometer in there.
	Well, let's get down to specifics.
	You said a couple of nickels.
	So you would obviously attach one wire to each nickel?
	Right.
	And then you put them in how much solution?
	Golly, how much?
	A glass.
	A glass, all right.
	Right.
	So you just put it in a glass.
	And then apply how much voltage?
	Oh, put about 30 volts on it.
	30 volts?
	Mm-hmm.
	And what period of time is required before you begin to observe the heat?
	Well, it takes a couple of days.
	And then you'll notice that the liquid begins to really heat up and far beyond the amount of energy that you're putting into it.
	Now, It's had a lot of resistance because the oil companies, the coal companies, the gas companies, and the electric companies and their distribution system are in a panic over this.
	Because here is a source of energy that costs about one-tenth that of any of the fossil fuels and has no bad side effects.
	It doesn't create any of the bad things that we get from nuclear energy and so forth.
	How do we measure, Wayne, the fact that we are getting a fusion reaction, or we're getting more energy out than we're putting in?
	How do we make that determination?
	Well, we have an inventor down in Sarasota, Florida, and your program reaches there, by the way.
	Yes, it does.
	Because the last time I was on, I got dozens and dozens of letters from Sarasota.
	And at any rate, we have an inventor down there, Dr. Patterson, who has a patent.
	And it's the first patent, I think, in the history of the United States, just granted a couple of months ago for a device which claims to put out more energy than goes into it.
	And he claimed 20 times in the patent application, and that was accepted.
	However, he demonstrated at a conference in Los Angeles back in December.
	They set up his Patterson cell and had it operating there for all of the engineers and all of the power company people to see, and they were using 1.3 watts of drive, and they were getting 1300 watts of heat coming out of that.
	Holy mackerel!
	Holy mackerel!
	And everybody could see, and all of the instrumentation, it was right there in a clear plastic box.
	So that's 1,000 times more power out than it took to drive it.
	All right, is that using this process or another?
	That's using this process.
	This process.
	Now, what is happening here, after they use these cells for a little while, and then they put them on a mass spectrometer, and that means they measure what kind of elements are there after they've been using the cells compared to what elements went into it.
	If they have palladium and lithium's solution going in, it starts coming out with beryllium, and boron, and silver, and copper, and so forth.
	So what's happening is that we're having a transmutation of elements.
	Well, of course, everybody, all the scientists know this is impossible.
	This is alchemy, and therefore this can't happen.
	Everybody has made a mistake.
	Enormous mistake somewhere, except that it works.
	Well, how can traditional science ignore this?
	In other words, if it's measurable?
	Well, how did they ignore the Wright Brothers for six years after they showed that they could fly, and they still claimed they couldn't, that it was a mistake, and so forth?
	And this has been the history of major breakthroughs in science for centuries.
	If we try this at home, how long will this glass continue to generate heat?
	For what period of time?
	Well, once you get it started, it keeps right on going.
	And one of the problems that they've had in the early days was that after they turned off the power, this kept right on generating heat.
	But they're able to control that now, and they're able to start the reaction on demand and uh... get it started within minutes now
	instead of hours or even weeks of months as a originally took when they first
	started experimenting with this
	how do you convert the heat energy
	uh... into a usable form the well you know it might be a room
	at that point i don't know right but how do you convert it
	could you for example we converted in some method uh... to equal or or or be greater than the voltage you're
	using to activate it Oh, yes.
	Well, now, how are you getting your electricity that's coming out of your wall?
	You're getting it by burning coal.
	I think 70% of the electricity that we use is made from burning coal, then turning the heat into electricity.
	Correct.
	So, in other words... So, this is just another source of heat.
	So, in other words, you could get this reaction going on a large scale and produce large amounts of electricity from that heat.
	Right.
	Or you could do it in something about the size of a bread box to generate electricity for your home.
	The size of a bread box, Wayne?
	Right.
	This cell that was generating 1300 watts was about a half inch in diameter.
	Holy mackerel!
	And you saw this?
	Yes, indeed.
	That is incredible.
	So yes, this is coming along.
	I'm publishing a magazine on the subject called Cold Fusion, and most of my contributors are from Japan, because that's where the major funding is in this.
	The United States government has done everything it can to stop any development in the United States of this.
	Why?
	Why?
	What runs our government?
	We have air pollution problems?
	What runs our government?
	Money.
	Right.
	There is no money coming from anybody that wants cold fusion, and there's plenty of money coming from people who want to stop it.
	It's like anything else.
	There's no constituency for progress.
	How do we poke a hole in that?
	Well, my suggestion is very simple.
	It's NRA, and that doesn't stand for National Rifle Association.
	That stands for Never Re-elect Anyone.
	And flush that stuff out of Congress down there and just keep turning them over so that they can't be bribed by the lobbyists to stop progress.
	Go to the heart of it, Eric.
	What about getting a larger-scale demonstration at some point or in some place, something that they cannot ignore?
	Well, that takes money.
	Now, up until fairly recently, the Navy was investing in some research on this and making very good progress.
	The pressure from Congress has stopped this.
	The Navy has now cut off their funds for research.
	That was the only branch of the government that was doing any research.
	The Department of Energy has made sure that no university in the country will do any research on this.
	And because if they do any research on cold fusion, they will not get money for any other project whatever.
	And of course, almost every university in the country that does any research is getting money from the government.
	I like the part where people can prove this to themselves.
	So once again, you get a large glass, right?
	And you fill it with You fill it with the sodium and... In what form?
	Sodium carbonate.
	Okay.
	And water.
	Okay.
	And put a couple of nickels in it.
	Okay, I want to know, how much sodium should be in the water mixed with water?
	Well, it doesn't make a lot of difference.
	Really?
	Just, you know, you put in some sodium, just a couple of tablespoons.
	Okay.
	Of sodium carbonate.
	And how do we solder wires to the nickels?
	You just use a couple of clips, clip leads.
	Clip onto a nickel.
	Clip onto a nickel, hang it in there, just with a nickel in the liquid, not with the metal of the clip.
	Right.
	Oh, wait a minute, wait a minute.
	You can solder onto nickels, as far as that's concerned.
	Okay, so solder onto a couple of nickels, defacing our government's currency.
	Oh, good Lord!
	I can hear the Storm Troopers coming here with their SWAT team tomorrow.
	Yeah, that's right.
	Alright, and you apply about how much voltage?
	Oh, about 30 volts ought to do it.
	At any particular amount of current, what will it draw?
	That will take care of itself.
	About what would it draw into these circuits?
	I don't know.
	So whatever it draws, nothing gigantic?
	No.
	And you have a thermometer in there.
	Right.
	And then another thermometer outside so you can measure the difference in temperature.
	Right.
	And you'll see that these stay fairly constant for a while.
	And then all of a sudden the temperature in the liquid will start going up.
	And what happens is that the hydrogen in your water that has the sodium in it We'll go into the nickel in your five cent piece, and by the time it gets up to where there's about 85% of the nickel has absorbed hydrogen, and your nickel acts like a sponge as far as that's concerned.
	And when you get about 85% in there, all of a sudden this reaction starts taking place.
	As a matter of fact, one of my readers has suggested that you use nickel or palladium as a filter in order to build up hydrogen for use as a hydrogen fuel.
	What about these trace radioactive, you mentioned beryllium?
	They're not radioactive.
	Not radioactive?
	No.
	Beryllium, boron, silver, copper.
	So there's no danger?
	Even anemone.
	Anemone.
	No danger?
	No danger.
	No, there's no radioactivity involved at all.
	Will it reach then a constant temperature and maintain that temperature?
	Or what is the reaction like as you watch it over a period of time?
	Yes, it does.
	It reaches a new constant temperature.
	Oh, what can you expect?
	How hot will it get?
	Well, that depends on how much you remove the heat.
	Normally, what you do is, as it gets hot, you keep circulating the liquid into a heat exchanger to use that heat.
	Right.
	Otherwise, it'll just keep getting hot and pretty soon blow up.
	Excuse me?
	Blow up?
	Right.
	Well, it'll melt.
	It'll evaporate your liquid.
	And we've had a couple of them blow up if you don't keep cooling the liquid.
	Thanks for the warning.
	So, in other words, you've got to use that energy or it builds and boom.
	Sure.
	Well, that would be true in anything, isn't it?
	Uh, yes.
	Yes, it would be.
	You know, the steam boiler, if you don't take the steam out.
	I've done what I should not do many times, Wayne, and I've charged batteries that say, do not charge.
	Oh, yeah.
	I've had several of those blow up on me.
	Yeah.
	Very unhappy.
	Right.
	Anyway, this is fascinating.
	And so this is real.
	It works.
	The people can go see for themselves, try it for themselves.
	And I guess we need to do something about it.
	One of the major funders in this field is Toyota.
	And indeed, Drs.
	Pons and Fleischman were so humiliated by the media response To the few laboratories that said, oh, this is baloney, and of course the newspapers love anything negative like that, and played it up big.
	Well, Toyota came along to Pons and Fleischmann and said, look, we'll build you the laboratory of your dreams anywhere in the world.
	Where would you like it?
	And they are now in a $25 million laboratory over in the French Riviera.
	Thank you.
	Well, they've got good taste.
	Now, how are they doing?
	I mean, are we getting any reports, or is it all now proprietary information?
	We were getting reports up until just a little over a year ago, and then all of a sudden the lid went on, and there's been no more reports coming out.
	So I expect that we will be seeing a Toyota car within a year or two, maybe three, that is powered by a power source that just will keep on going.
	Indeed, the last time that we saw anything from them, Dr. Fleischman was on British television in an interview, and he held up a bottle about the size of a thermos bottle, and they said, well, Dr. Fleischman, you know, how much power can you get out of that little thing?
	And he says, oh, about 10,000 watts.
	What?
	Well, that's enough to run a car.
	And they said, well, yes, but how often do you have to replenish the fuel in there?
	He says, oh, about every 10 to the 5th years.
	Every 100,000 years.
	It's just so disappointing, Wayne, that it's going to be a Toyota or whatever and not a Chevy or a Ford.
	Well, try to get them interested.
	Good luck.
	What has happened to us as a nation?
	Well, our car companies have never been ahead.
	Just remember that it took the Japanese to force our car companies to make small cars.
	I know.
	I remember.
	And it looks like small cars are going to be back in vogue if these gas prices keep up.
	It also looks like whoever would come out with something like you're saying, Toyota May, is going to own the market.
	Well, that is going to stop the sale of gas-driven cars fairly quickly, I believe.
	Look how much money you can save, and of course, pollution and so forth.
	What would the byproducts be?
	Water.
	Water?
	Yep.
	Water.
	Clean water?
	Yep.
	Water.
	No carbon dioxide?
	Nope, no carbon dioxide.
	Well, you do have some hydrogen and oxygen coming off that have not recombined back to make water again.
	I'm saddened by this, Wayne.
	I mean, if this is true, then it means that the big money interests, the oil companies, the car companies, they just won't embrace it.
	They won't change.
	They're going to have to die before they can be reborn.
	Well, I think we've seen that with the car companies right along.
	Really sad.
	So are you in your magazines following this and telling everybody about it?
	Oh, yes.
	Well, I'm keeping my readers of 73 Magazine up with this and my editorials.
	But in Cold Fusion Magazine, I'm publishing the theory behind why this works.
	And of course that makes it so that the researchers have some clues to go on rather than just experimenting empirically and, you know, testing this, that, and the other thing to see which works best.
	So we're moving along very well with that.
	Alright, look, in Congress, in the Senate, even though you said throw them all out, there are some good people.
	I'm determined there are some good people.
	Surely there's somebody that you or somebody else can go to and get their attention and You know, bring this in front of the public.
	Well, I have written to many of them.
	I've never gotten a response.
	Never a response?
	Never a response.
	Not even a thank you for your letter?
	We're forwarding this to the Department of Energy or something?
	No.
	Well, I'm crazy, you know.
	Yeah, well, that is a problem, isn't it?
	In other words, Wayne Green.
	Oh, Wayne Green.
	Hmm, I've heard this name.
	Oh, yes.
	Just put that letter over there.
	I'm sure that's what you get.
	All right.
	When we come back here from the bottom of the hour, there is something else I want to touch on just as incredible.
	It has to do with this electronic cure for AIDS.
	Is that right?
	You bet.
	All right.
	That when we come back.
	This is the CBC, the American CBC Radio Network.
	Because we're widely heard through Canada.
	And we are going to shortly get the phone lines open for Wayne Crazy Man Green.
	But there's a lot of people throughout history who have done wonderful things that they called crazy.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 1996.
	What you couldn't do, you got me burning up. Oh, oh, oh. I'll get to get to be, I've got to give it up. Oh, oh, oh.
	Oh, oh, oh.
	You're listening to Arkbell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 1996.
	My guest is Wayne Green, he'll be right back.
	Having a chat tonight on America Online, the Periscope area of America Online.
	You'll find a little chat room in there entitled The Grassy Knoll.
	I'm in there right now.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 1996.
	Alright, it's back to Wildman Wayne Green now.
	And Wayne, before we leave the subject and move on to medicinal things, a couple of facts for you, Wayne.
	Could you please ask Wayne how far to separate the nickel pieces in the solution?
	I'd like to duplicate the experiment to prove it for myself.
	That's Jim, I am.
	It doesn't make any difference.
	No difference?
	No, we're in a glass.
	Whether we're one or two inches apart doesn't make much difference.
	Art, please ask Wayne if he knows what the maximum operating temperature of the Patterson cell is.
	A Patterson cell hooked to a Tesla turbine will provide about 80 kilowatts, provided the cell can operate at a steam-producing temperature, and it would fit in the shack you store your gardening tools and lawnmower in.
	Yes, you can operate these at almost any temperature, depending upon the electrolyte Over in Italy, they've been doing it at 500 and 600 degrees.
	And over here, they're doing it at around the boiling point.
	So, around 200.
	So, it doesn't make a lot of difference.
	You can operate it whatever is most convenient for you.
	Okay, Wayne.
	Here's kind of a wrap.
	Oh, by the way, Art, this is a brand new field.
	It is mostly empirical.
	That means that people just test this, that, and the other thing.
	So there's a ground floor opportunity for inventors or tinkerers to get in there and be the next Bill Gates, the next Steve Jobs in this field.
	Because there's almost nothing going on in the United States in this field other than Dr. Patterson.
	So there's just an enormous opportunity.
	It doesn't take long to learn the fundamentals of this.
	Indeed, I have a little booklet out that I mentioned last time on books you're crazy if you haven't read.
	And several of these give you the fundamentals that go into Cold Fusion.
	For instance, there's one by Louis Kervran about transmutation, biological transmutation.
	Another one by Michio Kushi on the Philosopher's Stone that has to do with transmutation.
	once you read these you're pretty well uh... in on the ground floor of uh... how to go ahead and
	start developing your own uh... uh... experiments
	all right when you come to here comes a bit of a wrap uh...
	Art, thanks to Wayne Green's pushing computers over the years, a great number of young people who might have taken up ham radio as a hobby instead took up computers.
	The result is ham radio is becoming an old man's hobby.
	Signed, Charlie, also a ham, ARRL life member.
	So there you are.
	Answer that one.
	Well, we've always had a lot of other attractions.
	And if you promote something, you sell it.
	And the ARL has done virtually nothing in recent years to promote amateur radio in the general media.
	Back in the old days, when amateur radio was growing at 11% per year, the ARL was doing promotion.
	When somebody new got a license, they sent out notices to the local newspapers.
	When somebody would get an award, they would send out notices to the newspapers.
	So there was a constant mentioning of amateur radio in newspapers and so forth.
	But that all stopped.
	All right, let's move on a little bit.
	Last time you were on, you talked to us about, I don't know if it's a cure for AIDS, I guess you have to be careful what you say here.
	Well, it's certainly reported as that, and was reported as that by the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, who discovered this process.
	The first publications of this went into that.
	They now have a patent on it.
	And 14 other hospitals have patents on it, but it's still being kept under wraps.
	It has not been in any of the medical journals, so the doctors know nothing about it.
	Alright, let's review what we're talking about.
	AIDS is a virus.
	Well, maybe.
	Well, maybe.
	I do think they've isolated it and they say it's a virus.
	As far as I know, we have never cured a virus.
	And when people get AIDS, their T-cell count begins to drop.
	The traditional reaction is to give them AZT.
	As a matter of fact, there's even been talk in Congress of mandating AZT for a mother who would be pregnant who tests positive.
	Well, thank you.
	Welcome.
	That's the company that markets AZT.
	One of the books you need to read that's on my list of books you're crazy if you don't read uh... it has is called dirty medicine
	and a lot of that is the history of the welcome company and their promotion of
	a cp which uh... has never
	shown any sign of helping people with aids
	right i'll tell you i i i did often makes it work you know i i i the book i
	interviewed you know doctor dozing Yep.
	I just got his new book.
	All right.
	Dr. Dusing does not think that AIDS is a virus.
	Right.
	He believes that there are many things that will cause it.
	Toxins, recreational drug use, particularly a lot of other things.
	But the immune suppression is not, he says, from a virus.
	And you can't show me there's enough of that virus, if in fact it is a virus, to ever cause anything.
	That's what he believes, and he says that when you give somebody AZT, and I'm not an expert on this, but that the immune system spikes.
	In other words, it does come up, T cell count goes up, because you are in effect challenging the immune system, if not on the way to destroying it with AZT.
	So quickly it goes up, then quickly it takes a big dive.
	Okay, let me talk a little bit about this whole thing.
	Alright.
	I heard a couple of years ago that a fellow named Bob Beck had come up with a solution to the AIDS problem, and I had known him a little bit for several years, so I got in touch with him and he faxed me a bunch of information, including a copy from Science News of the information that the Albert Einstein College of Medicine had discovered and announced that they had a cure for AIDS.
	And what they did was pass a small, a very small, electric current through the blood and they claimed that this then prevented the virus, HIV virus, from hooking on to the white cells and that the virus would then die.
	So they have gone ahead since then And patented that process where they take the blood out of the arm, pass it through the electric current through it, and then put it back in the arm again.
	And of course, this is a way that can take six months or so to do that, and cost $20,000 to $50,000 in the process.
	It has a drawback in that the virus, whatever it is, seems to live in the lymph glands and stay there, kind of hold up in the lymph glands, and then come out after a period of years.
	So what Bob Beck did was say, well now golly, if you want to pass electric current through the blood, you don't have to take it out to do that.
	You can just put a couple of electrodes on your arteries, and you don't want to pass electric current through the heart, so let's do it on the arteries down at the ankles, and put a small voltage on there.
	It takes actually about 25 volts.
	And this will pass the 50 microamperes of current through the blood that you want.
	should clear it up. And indeed according to the Albert Einstein Hospital it
	clears up not only any virus but any bacteria, fungus, parasites or anything
	else that are living in the blood. That's remarkable. So Beck promoted this and I
	said gee this sounds like a good idea.
	So I made copies of his material available along with a very simple electric circuit to provide the 25 volts and to flip it back and forth a few times a second so that you don't build up any resistance to it.
	So it's changing polarities constantly?
	You change polarity back and forth, yeah.
	And I put this in a booklet and sent out several thousand of these.
	And kind of waited to hear from anybody that was having success.
	And I didn't hear very much.
	I did get a call from a fellow over in France, thanking me profusely for saving his son's life.
	But other than that, I didn't hear much.
	And so I said, gee, does this really work or not?
	Because I'm a reporter, not a religious zealot on these things.
	And then in January, Bob Beck gave a talk down at the Global Sciences Conference.
	In Tampa, and I was on the program too, talking about cold fusion and anything else that was in my mind, rattling around, and Bob Beck had his unit there, and had a whole sheaf of laboratory reports of people who were in dire, you know, dying of AIDS, and then a few weeks later, their T-cells were back up, and they were pronounced cured.
	So that kind of convinced me that, well, maybe this is working.
	And so I have rewritten my booklet and brought it up to date.
	And in the latest issue of 73, the May issue, I have a circuit diagram and the parts list and everything for a very simple, what is called a bioelectrifier, which will generate the voltage necessary for this and do it all electronically.
	Beck's unit used a little relay to flip back and forth to change the voltage, and we do it with a couple of transistors instead, or ICs.
	So, at any rate, I have upgraded the AIDS booklet, as I call it, but of course it works for syphilis, gonorrhea, Epstein-Barr, herpes, or just about any other rotten thing that's floating around in the blood.
	Beck came up with one other Does it have any side effects, negative side effects?
	None have been reported from anybody.
	Presumably, if you were dumb enough to pass the current from one arm to the other, it would go through the heart, and if you have a pacemaker, it might stop your heart, and that might be considered negative.
	So, what they're doing now is taking the two arteries that are on either the left or the right wrist and if you
	feel there you'll feel just on either side you can feel these two arteries and they put a
	little wire with flannel wrapped around it tied with silk thread and soak that in salt water
	and use a little strap, one of these elastic straps with Velcro to hold it in place to
	hold those electrodes over the arteries and as you turn up the voltage you can feel it
	go bump, bump, bump, bump, Thank you.
	I've been using it, and what I do is I take an afternoon nap every day for about an hour, and I put this on there and just go to sleep and let it bump away for an hour while I'm sleeping.
	How does it do what it does?
	Well, what it does is pass this minute electric current through the blood And as I say, that prevents any of these bad beasties in there from hooking onto the white cells, and they die.
	But then the problem is to get anything that's in the lymph glands out into the bloodstream.
	Yes.
	And this was the unique thing that Bob Beck came up with, and that is he wound a coil of wire about 150 turns on a one-inch spool.
	And you can take an old spool from a VCR tape and put a couple boards on it to hold the wire.
	Wind the coil and put that in series with the light and a flash gun.
	And this gives you a very short, very high voltage zap.
	And that coil then generates about a 20,000 gauss field for a moment.
	And you put that up near the lymph glands, but first you work for two or three weeks clearing the blood of anything that's in it.
	And this is the report.
	I'm the reporter here, not a doctor.
	And then once you've done that, you want to get this out of the lymph glands and you put this coil up there by the lymph glands and shoot it a few times.
	And you can feel the difference.
	Because it makes you a little bit sluggish as these things come out of the lymph glands into the blood, and then your purifier, or bioelectrifier, whatever you want to call it, takes care of it.
	And then you use it on a few more lymph glands, and you can look in Gray's Anatomy, which is in any library, and is available for about ten or eleven bucks from bookstores, to find out where all the lymph glands are.
	Yes, but Beck reported another side effect to this generator of the electric field.
	He used it on his head, and when he gave his talk at Tampa back in January, he had a full head of hair after having male pattern baldness for several years.
	It even grows hair!
	When is the FDA and the BATF and lots of armed people going to break in and take Wayne Green away?
	Well, as soon as I claim anything for the machine and start selling them.
	So you're not selling them?
	No, I'm not selling them, no.
	All I am is a reporter.
	So you're just You've got the materials, you provide schematics, that kind of thing.
	Free of charge, I guess?
	That's right.
	Well, you have to buy the magazine.
	And oh, my AIDS booklet was free of charge, but I'm charging $10 now.
	And the reason for that is to have some money to help pay for these laboratory tests to prove these things work.
	And we want to build up a little fund for laboratory research on that.
	So, you've got something of a track record now of people that have tried it, who are dying of AIDS, and have cleared of AIDS?
	That's right.
	Hundreds of them.
	God, that's incredible, Wayne.
	And herpes, and Epstein-Barr, and so forth.
	Yep.
	Yes, it seems to work.
	It's not quack city, it really works, huh?
	That's right.
	Well, you know, we have a terrible time in our whole health business.
	Quite a number of the books on my list of books that you're crazy if you haven't read have to do with health, because our medical industry is covering up an awful lot of easy, simple, inexpensive cures for things.
	And of course, it's a cloudy thing because there's an awful lot of quacks, crooks, and so forth in there also.
	and we don't have any way to really figure one from the other other than to
	do a lot of research and uh... find out about why uh... when i do find a book
	that is good and excellent and that makes sense and has a reasonably good uh... backup
	i put it on my list of books that you really ought to read I've also heard, Wayne, people have been talking about collodial silver.
	Right.
	What do we know about that?
	Well, we know that that was what was used to cure an awful lot of illnesses up until the antibiotics came along.
	And then all of a sudden they just dropped it for the new fad.
	And it seems to have an awful lot of value.
	There's a book out on uh... on colloids on uh... the silver colloids that
	people should be looking at and that'll be on my list of books
	but uh...
	one of the things that uh...
	the commercial version of the bob beck device and there's an outfit out in colorado
	that is supplying these so really
	the the unit if you want to build it yourself out of the article in my
	magazine probably cost you thirty forty dollars to build from parts.
	He's selling the unit for $200 for people that don't know which end of the soldering iron is hot.
	Actually, any kid at eight that knows how to solder should be able to put this together.
	But there's a lot of people that are terrified by electronics, and he's got them going for $200.
	But these are not To be used on humans.
	They are plant growth stimulators.
	And there's another jack in there.
	And that's why he's got to sell them, right?
	Right.
	And there's another jack in there that comes out with a couple of silver wires that you put into distilled water with a little bit of salt in it to make your own silver colloids.
	And you want to learn about that because that is almost a magical solution that you can make yourself in a few minutes, just with a couple batteries and two silver wires.
	This is amazing.
	If you want to learn more, I'll be writing more about that as I report on these things.
	What kind of reaction do you get to this kind of thing, both the Cold Fusion and this?
	Do you make people angry with this stuff, Wayne?
	Not really, because I've been writing my editorials in 73 Magazine for 36 years now.
	And the readers of the magazine know that I haven't been wrong yet.
	So when I come along with something new, I don't meet anywhere near the amount of resistance that I used to.
	I haven't been wrong yet.
	What is your, over all the years, Wayne, what is your biggest failure?
	Biggest failure?
	Yes.
	Oh, I guess it's something that fell flat on its face.
	Good Lord, I don't know of anything.
	Oh, there's got to be something, Wayne!
	Some little thing that you were going to do that didn't work.
	Oh, well, shoot.
	I guess my biggest failure, as far as that's concerned, is trusting people.
	And that's cost me a hundred million dollars.
	Um, that makes, unfortunately, an awful lot of sense.
	All right, Wayne, what we're going to do is this.
	Come back and take phone calls from the good people out there.
	Are you up for that?
	Oh, sure.
	There's so much more to talk about.
	I know.
	Well, we'll get to it.
	Because I keep reading books and I say, gee, people should know about this book.
	My gosh.
	All right.
	Well, we'll talk about those things and get calls coming up after the break.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Rolling along with Wayne Green, editor of 73 Magazine, Ham Radio Magazine, and so much more.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 1996.
	This is a video from the first episode of the series.
	This is a replay of the first episode of the series.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 1996.
	My guest is Wayne Green, editor-in-chief of 73 Magazine, Taham Magazine, and we're very, very glad to have him here this morning.
	Talks about all kinds of wild stuff, but stuff that actually works.
	That's the thing.
	Listen, once again, I want to thank everybody in the audience for making this program so number one in so many places.
	More surveys coming in, folks.
	Number one at WHAM in Rochester, New York.
	Number one at KOMO, KVI, Seattle.
	Number one in Portland, Oregon at KEX.
	Number one in Detroit, Michigan.
	Number one in Los Angeles.
	That's right.
	This program has now, in this time slot, displaced the ever number one KFI in Los Angeles and KABC.
	KABC is number one.
	So, I'm going to be popping the cork on some champagne this weekend.
	And celebrating.
	It's all very good news.
	Thank you all.
	Now we take you back to the night of May 3rd, 1996.
	Now we take you back to the night of May 3rd, 1996, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Back now to Wayne Green.
	Wayne, a few facts questions to dispose of quickly if we can.
	Art and Wayne, how about Ebola?
	Isn't that a virus from Tamra in Los Angeles?
	Yes, it is.
	And Bob Beck feels that if they would go over there with this unit, that that would be able to be cleaned up very quickly.
	All right.
	Could you ask Mr. Green if you could put a tank of Cold Fusion inside a hot water tank to heat water fairly quickly?
	Yes.
	One of my Cold Fusion readers called and said that he had, as I mentioned, had tested the Cold Fusion process on his kitchen table and it worked so well that he built a unit and he's now heating his greenhouse with it.
	And he's up in Manitoba, Canada.
	Wow.
	I believe we're going to see, and I've talked to representatives of Dr. Patterson, and I believe that there will be a commercial unit on the market within a year which will generate heat for a greenhouse or a small home.
	Alright.
	Hi Art Wayne, many years ago I sat in Wayne's Brooklyn, New York office and talked about special calls.
	He said if vanity calls ever came to be, this is Ham Radio folks, he would change from W to NSD to simply W. Well, the FCC has now announced the opening of the vanity call sign program May 31st.
	Wayne, will you now file for W?
	Unfortunately, that is not one of the calls that they will permit, so the heck with it.
	So you're going to stick with W-2 NSD?
	Well, I've had it now for almost 60 years, so yeah, I guess so.
	Sixty years, wow.
	Do you know I was once W-2 CKS, Wayne?
	Oh, be darned.
	Well, I know you're now W-6 OBD.
	That's right.
	Right.
	All right, look, I've taken you all over the map here, Wayne.
	I want to give you a chance to light up Well, indeed.
	As I say, one of the things that I do is read an awful lot of books, trying to find those that I think are really important.
	For instance, one of my readers sent in a book that he had written and self-published And I found it so fascinating that I called him up and said, gee, what else have you written?
	And he sent me a second book that he had written called The Last Skeptic of Science.
	And it's a fascinating book.
	And in there he claims, for instance, that there have never been any ice ages.
	And he explains why, and he makes an awfully good case and convinced me.
	He points out that the moon does not make the tides.
	And he points out what does, and how you prove that the moon doesn't make tides.
	And again, it makes awfully good sense.
	He points out that volcanoes are not fed by... Wait a minute, wait a minute.
	Let's back up.
	The moon doesn't make tides.
	What does?
	The sun.
	The sun?
	Right.
	And he proves this by pointing out that you have a number of places around the world where there are no tides.
	You have some places where there's one tide a day and so forth.
	He proves about transmutation because he set up a little experiment which he describes in his book where anybody could set up with some carbon rods and a generator for arc welder and some calcium carbide and make their own volcano And it'll keep right on going once you turn the voltage off, and you have a heck of a job stopping it.
	And then when he got through, they tested what was in the ashes that were left over, and nothing that they put in to start with had a weight of over 20, you know, an atomic weight of over 20.
	When they got through, they had elements all the way up to 83.
	Wow.
	and uh... so you know so much for this uh... transportation being impossible
	so what's what i like what what's happening there is that a of fusion
	reaction of some of the other course it is uh... he uh... discusses
	uh... that the earth changes on its axis Now, you've had Graham Hancock on your program, I believe.
	Yes, I have.
	And I found his book is on my list, Footprints of the Gods, as one of the books that you're just crazy if you don't read.
	Fingerprints.
	Fingerprints, is it?
	Oh, yeah, right.
	Fingerprints of the Gods, right.
	Thank you.
	And in one of your commercials, you mentioned asthma and hay fever.
	My wife is plagued with asthma.
	I have it too.
	And when I read the book about immunization, I said, oh my gosh, that's what happened to me.
	I had no allergies and no asthma and so forth until I got my immunization shots.
	And then all of a sudden I had sinus trouble, ear trouble, and asthma for the rest of my life.
	And this fella in the book, Immunization, points out how that these immunization shots are doing this to millions and millions and millions of people.
	Let me tell you, though, there's a problem, Wayne.
	I'm a world traveler, and so are you.
	You've been all over the world.
	I'm going to Russia, Scandinavia, in August, all over the place.
	And they won't let you go unless you get the shots, Wayne.
	You gotta have the shots.
	I know that.
	I solved that by making my own shot records right away and i i used to check her as the uh...
	with a rubber stamp and so forth
	powerful that's what we're going to do this always
	at that house i don't know i have most of the shots
	and uh...
	but uh... now i know that uh... i i should have had religious reasons for
	not having them uh... do you do does that work
	Oh yeah.
	It does?
	In other words, you can go to the passport people and the customs people and you can say, look, it's against my religion, sorry?
	Exactly.
	No kidding?
	Well, we have semi-freedom of religion in this country.
	Anyway, that was one book that was fascinating, and he just goes into all kinds of things that we've always believed, and scientists always believe, and says, oh, baloney.
	Don't believe everything that they tell you.
	And his other book was called NASA Mooned America.
	And in there he claims that NASA never went to the moon.
	Really?
	That the whole thing was hooked up just like that movie Capricorn 1.
	Yeah.
	And unfortunately, you know, I went in and I said, oh baloney, what a bunch of crap this is.
	Now look, I interviewed Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 astronaut, the other day.
	He was very upset about this.
	Right.
	Well, I would think he would be.
	So we never went to the moon?
	That's what this fella claims.
	And as I say, I opened the book saying, oh, what a bunch of baloney this is going to be.
	He convinced me.
	And I'm not easy to convince.
	Well, either am I, so let me hear it.
	What is it in that book that convinced you?
	Well, several things.
	He had about 30 gotchas, as he calls them.
	All right, let's hear a few.
	For instance, you take the footprints on the moon.
	We've all seen the pictures with the footprints on the moon and the car tracks of the little buggy and so forth, right?
	The lunar lander, yes.
	Right, yeah.
	Well, now, it's dry and hot dry there.
	If you've ever walked in dry sand, you know that you don't leave a footprint.
	You just leave a little dent.
	Well, yeah.
	Right.
	It takes moisture.
	To hold grains of sand or grains of dust together.
	Otherwise, they don't hold together without moisture.
	So if you walk in moist sand, sure, you leave a footprint of moist dirt.
	But if you walk in very dry dust or very dry sand, you don't leave any footprints.
	And these footprints are very clear there.
	Now, wait a minute.
	I'm not sure that's true.
	If you walk on the beach in dry sand or out in the desert, you still leave a depression.
	You leave a depression, but you don't leave footprints.
	And these pictures show clear footprints.
	Now, they showed pictures of a LM.
	When it landed, they were using the retro rockets.
	And yet, when you look at the pictures, there's no hole under them.
	There's dirt and so forth all under them, showing that there's never been any...
	Disturbance?
	...any rockets.
	Huh.
	There's a photograph showing Armstrong and Aldrin saluting the flag.
	Yes.
	And according to the information with the picture, it was taken the day after they arrived.
	So many hours after they arrived.
	Well, if you calculate where the sun should have been at that time, it should have been at about 12.2 degrees above the horizon.
	If you measure the shadow for Aldrin, You find that the sun at that time had to be 26.4 degrees above the horizon.
	If you measure the shadow for Armstrong, the sun had to be at 36.9 degrees above the horizon, and the two shadows cross.
	Boy, isn't that weird?
	Yes.
	But then there's the matter of solar flares.
	Yes.
	And the amount of radiation that you get.
	Yes.
	Information that's available says that it would take about six feet of lead to protect one from those solar flares, once you get outside the Van Allen Belt.
	And they didn't have anything like that.
	That lead was flimsy.
	So, they should be dead?
	They should be dead.
	Long dead.
	So then, where does... It goes through this one after the other.
	I've got you.
	Where does he theorize, then, that all the pictures came from?
	Some studio, like in Capricorn One?
	Right.
	Down in, probably in Nevada, or New Mexico, or Nevada, probably.
	The moon rocks are exactly like what you find in Antarctica.
	And so forth.
	What about the Russians?
	The whole book just goes through one after the other.
	What about the Russians?
	They went to the moon, did they fail?
	No, they didn't go to the moon.
	No, maybe they didn't.
	No, as a matter of fact, the Russians said we can't do it because of the radiation.
	I guess that's right.
	Why did I think the Russians?
	Well, they sent probes around.
	They sent probes, sure.
	That's right.
	Right.
	Well, anyway, as I say, it's a fascinating book, and it convinced me.
	And I'm not an easy sale on that.
	That's amazing.
	I would love to read it myself.
	Well, I have made an arrangement with a fellow, and Well, there's great controversy surrounding all this.
	I've had Richard Hoagland on many times.
	You know Richard, I suppose.
	wants to remain uh... anonymous skewer yes because uh... i think that the a lot of people like to see
	him dead well there's great controversy surrounding all this i've
	had richard hoagland on many times you know richard only out uh...
	yeah i've i've heard uh... somebody sent me a paper some of his dark so uh...
	he's got the new enterprise mission that claims to be going where someone has
	gone before uh... things they went but things there's ancient
	civilizations represented by giant glass domes on the moon.
	Right.
	Then I had Edgar Mitchell on.
	He said that's so much green cheese and bologna.
	Right.
	And now I've got you on.
	Now I've got you on, and you're saying Mitchell is full of green cheese and bologna, basically.
	Right.
	That they never went at all.
	Yep.
	Well, I'm not saying that.
	I'm saying this book says that, and convinced me.
	And convinced you?
	Well, so then you're saying it.
	I'm saying the book convinced me.
	There's a slight difference there.
	I'm a reporter.
	I see.
	All right.
	All right.
	Let's take a few calls just for the fun of it.
	That's just some of the books that I've found that are fascinating.
	All right.
	And I've got a bunch of them that are just really wonderful.
	All right.
	Well, we'll get that info on the air.
	Wes for the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hello, Mr. Bell and Mr. Green.
	How are you gentlemen doing tonight?
	We're both fine.
	Great.
	That brings up a couple of great questions.
	One, I was wondering how you step down the voltage to 30 volts to use in this, I guess, abstract Patterson device?
	Well, with a transformer.
	Just a plain old transformer from AC to DC?
	Well, you want to rectify it, too.
	The transformer works on AC, and then you have a rectifier which changes it into DC.
	There are any number of power supplies on the market, hundreds of them.
	One would think you could even use batteries.
	One can use batteries.
	Would that last for the several days that it takes to... If you can buy enough batteries, sure.
	That's a good point.
	You can use car batteries, and they provide 12 volts, so by the time you have three of those, you've got 36 volts, and you're in pretty good shape.
	That sounds fascinating.
	For what it's worth, this is purely anecdotal, but I had an acquaintance that was working on one of the government research facilities out west, and he had mentioned that he had seen an actual device that was about the size of a suitcase.
	He said they flipped it open and it had two probes.
	There was no external power source.
	It was all inside this suitcase.
	It was designed to stick the two probes in the ground in the sandy soil, Well, I don't know what that is, but I have heard about it from my good friend John Campbell.
	glass, you could have an instant hard stand for some purpose out in a sandy area.
	They said the power source was completely self-contained in there and I don't know how
	it could be any type of battery.
	It would have to be something like a Patterson device.
	I don't know what that is, but I have heard about it from my good friend John Campbell.
	I don't know if you remember him in Analog Magazine.
	He was the editor of Analog Science Fact and Fiction Magazine for many, many years.
	He would tell me about these amazing things that had been tested and proven, but which
	had not appeared on the market.
	Absolutely.
	It was at a defense research facility, so that would probably explain keeping that idea under wraps.
	Where are you calling from, sir?
	I'm calling from Tacoma, Washington.
	Tacoma.
	All right, thank you.
	Remarkable stuff out there, Wayne.
	I've got to wonder how all this stuff can be out there, existing, provable, and yet totally ignored.
	Well, the government is pretty good at keeping secrets at times.
	I know that I'm on the inside as far as the Amelia Earhart case is concerned and knew her and knew what her trip was and so forth and they still kept that secret after 60 years.
	Wasn't there a news item they believed they had found her remains or remains of the airplane on a South Pacific island?
	There's been a number of those.
	They went there in one island and looked for it and found a shoe that they thought might have been hers.
	But there's a book out just 30 years ago by Fred Gorner that told the real story, the honest story of what happened to her and what it was all about.
	It was called A Search for Amelia Earhart.
	It's available in paperback and hardback.
	I've got both copies here.
	Well, I'll buy it.
	What happened to her?
	Oh, she was on a spy mission.
	to take photographs of truck island for the navy and uh... our president uh... roosevelt had been uh... previously the secretary of the navy and knew that they had they wanted to know what was going on in truck island this is back in nineteen thirty six just before world war two so they commissioned her and so uh... they cooked up this whole around the world flight so that she could take those pictures and uh... they had her plane Wayne, hold it right there.
	We've got to cut away.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 1996.
	The Coast to Coast AM concert, with the band, and the audience.
	Tonight's program originally aired May 3rd, 1996.
	Results beginning to come in.
	Thank you all, once again.
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired May 3rd, 1996.
	Results beginning to come in. Thank you all, once again.
	And I really mean that.
	Number one in Rochester, New York.
	W-H-A-M.
	Number one in Seattle, Tacoma, Washington.
	K-O-M-O.
	Number one in Portland, Oregon.
	K-E-X.
	Number one in Detroit, Michigan.
	W-J-R.
	Number one in Los Angeles, California.
	On K-A-B-C.
	Thank you all.
	Listen, we're in a chat room right now.
	I'm in a chat room with a whole group of people.
	If you want to join us, you're welcome to.
	Discussing the show and whatever comes up.
	All you do is go on AOL, America Online, check into, uh, actually go to Keyword and enter the word Periscope.
	P-A-R-A-S-C-O-P, Periscope.
	And when you get inside, you want to go to a chat room called the Grassy Knoll, and you'll find a lot of people in there listening to the program and having a big discussion about it right now.
	So come on in.
	The water's fine.
	Wayne Green is my guest.
	The very controversial Wayne Green.
	Talking about all kinds of things.
	Wayne, you'll be happy to hear this.
	Art, I'm one of the people that has experienced positive results from the electro device.
	After Wayne was on the last time, I sent for his information packet.
	I then had one of the machines built for me.
	It was about $50.
	I must admit, I feel better than ever.
	I have more energy.
	I don't feel sluggish as I used to.
	I notice that my hair is no longer thinning as well.
	A cure for AIDS?
	I have no way of knowing.
	But I can say that a couple of treatments a day with this device has me feeling like a new person.
	Great show, Bonnie, listening in Pekin, Illinois.
	How about that, Wayne?
	Very good.
	I've gotten a lot of response like that.
	A lot.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	And the AIDS booklet, as I say, has been updated with the circuit diagrams, both from Bob Beck and from my readers and with a complete list of parts and how to make it and where to buy the whole kits and everything like that.
	All right.
	And your claim is it will kill viruses.
	That's what Albert Einstein College of Medicine says in their patents.
	Amazing.
	All right, Wayne, let's take some calls or they'll snout me.
	Oh, by the way, it's also patented by MIT, Harvard Hospital, and so forth.
	Stephen's Hospital.
	All right, very good, Wayne.
	Hold on, let's go to some calls.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Where are you, please?
	Hi, I'm in Flint, Michigan.
	Yes, sir.
	I have a little bit of a problem with the thing where he was talking about that there has to be moisture.
	For the, on the moon print?
	For a moon, uh, footprint, yes.
	Footprint on the moon, uh, have you ever worked with cement?
	Uh, yes, and I don't think there's that much cement on the moon.
	Well, it has the same, you know, you don't have, uh... I know there, we can put things together that do that, yes.
	I mean, the bag of cement, you can, like, put your fingerprint in it, and there's no moisture in there.
	Oh, yes there is.
	Well, very little.
	Oh, yes there is.
	How are you going to get something dry here?
	It's not easy.
	It has to be out in the desert somewhere to be really dry.
	Or in an air-locked environment.
	You know, that does a lot for separating grains of sand.
	You know, there's a lot of air in there.
	You know what I mean?
	Right.
	And also, the moon dust is very granulated, very round.
	It packs together very well.
	If it's round, it's not going to pack.
	Yeah, I agree.
	If it's round, it's going to fill in.
	Okay, I see, but I just thought I'd say that you can put a fingerprint in a pile of, you know, cement powder or even like plaster.
	What is your humidity factor?
	Well, you could... No, you've got a good point.
	You're not working in zero humidity at 274 degrees Fahrenheit.
	What's that?
	You're not working in zero humidity with 274 degrees Fahrenheit.
	That's a good point.
	Okay, so basically you're saying that there's water on the moon?
	No, I'm saying that there is no water.
	There cannot be any water and there cannot be any footprints like that.
	You have heard that there is water on the moon?
	You have?
	I haven't.
	If there's no atmosphere, how are you going to have water floating around?
	Well, are you telling me that there is an atmosphere on Moon now?
	No, I'm not.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Thank you very much, sir.
	Take care.
	No, those are good points.
	If it's round, it's going to fill in, and there certainly is no humidity, there's no atmosphere, and there are wildly varying temperatures.
	Well, no, there's one temperature.
	The Sun when it's out, that's right.
	It's very hot.
	Yes Our people have only been there during sunlight.
	They have not been there at night So it's very hot there and those suits are Cannot possibly hold the cooling system that would take care of the amount of heat that there is there.
	All right First time caller line.
	You're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hi.
	I Hi, Art.
	I just kind of dozed off listening to your show.
	Well, I don't blame you.
	I was wondering if you could repeat your address again, a way to contact you.
	All right, sure.
	I'll give it.
	It's Wayne Green in Peterborough, New Hampshire.
	And the zip code is 03458.
	How do you spell Peterborough?
	Any way you want.
	Come on, Wayne.
	P-E-T-E-R-B-O-R-O.
	Well, I know, but how are you supposed to spell it?
	Oh, Peter, like in Peter Rabbit.
	Borough, like in any of the boroughs of New York City, B-O-R-O-U-G-H.
	Right.
	Or B-O-R-O, or B-D-A-S-H-D-A-S-H.
	You really depend on the post office, don't you?
	Well, the 0-3-4-5-8 gets it through.
	Alright.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Where are you, please?
	This is Jim Colling from Houston.
	Great show, as always.
	Thank you, Jim.
	Wayne, with regard to the stuff about the moon, number one, if I write your address, can I get, do you have some information on how to get that book?
	Oh sure, that's in my list of books, you're crazy if you don't read.
	Okay, and also, one more thing, before I get back to those callers, what is your belief about Richard Hogan's feelings about stuff being on the moon?
	Yeah, good question.
	Sandcastles.
	No, I don't put any credence in it.
	Sorry about that.
	But on the other hand, you don't think we went either?
	No.
	No, if there's any pictures like that, they were probably taken somewhere in the out west.
	Alright then, if that's the case, what the hell are they doing with big glass structures out west?
	Well, I just visited one down in Arizona.
	Biosphere.
	Oh, Lord.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Good evening, Jeff.
	Who's in his own biosphere.
	Okay.
	Mr. Green, regarding the cold fusion you were talking about earlier in the show?
	Yes.
	Right.
	If that were to be mass produced, I don't know if I'm saying that right, but, you know, if it were introduced... Manufactured, right?
	Right.
	Would that have any effect on Howard Stern and Baba Booey?
	On who?
	Oh, it's a Howard Stern thing.
	Hey, hey, listen, listen, listen, while you're on Howard Stern out there, you're calling from New York, right?
	Right.
	Yeah.
	Number one, number one, number one, number one, number one!
	Hey, Art, we're listening.
	Yeah, that's good.
	I used to live in New York.
	Really?
	I can talk the language.
	I've lived in Brooklyn for 30 years.
	Oh, that's right.
	You did, I guess, didn't you?
	Yeah, I lived in Brooklyn.
	Brooklyn turns out a lot of strange people, Wayne.
	Thank you.
	You're welcome.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hi.
	Hello, where are you?
	Well, I think I got the wrong number.
	Okay, bye.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	I'd like to ask Mr. Green if he has any information about treating cancer.
	Oh, we sure will ask him.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Boston.
	Boston?
	Yes, sir.
	I'm listening to you on WAM.
	All right.
	Very good.
	WAM gets in here very well in New England.
	Oh, okay, Wayne.
	What's the deal on cancer?
	Okay, there are a number of excellent books on cancer that I've recommended.
	First, by any means, is the one by Dr. Comby called Maximize Immunity.
	I would run, not walk, to get that book.
	The Beck device has been reported numerous times to help with cancer.
	There are just a number of approaches to cancer, none of which are being used by commercial medicine.
	As I say, there's a number of books on my list that have to do with that.
	Alright, let me ask you a little bit about a different kind of cancer, skin cancer.
	There was a report the other day that because of the thinning ozone and exposure to the sun, skin cancers, particularly the awful melanoma, has just gone up horrendously.
	Do you give credence to this theory of the thinning ozone?
	I have not read any books that convince me that this is a major problem.
	There's one by Dixie Rae Lee that's on my list that goes into this and shows that this is mostly hype.
	Mostly hype?
	Right.
	How then do you account for the increased skin cancer?
	Well, I think we're having increased reports of it.
	I'm not sure that the amount of skin cancer is actually increasing.
	There was also a report that men, cancer for men, since World War II, all cancers, have increased, non-smoking related, Wayne, by 300% since World War II.
	Right.
	Now, if you'll read some of the books, you'll find that this ties right in with the increase of dioxin and the increase in fluorides in our water.
	And that these go hand in hand.
	And our water is being fluorided all over the country, and the result of this seems to be an increase in cancer all over the country.
	And, of course, dioxin has been put into our groundwater everywhere.
	Well, dioxin is... ...in our faucets.
	I'm not sure about fluoride, but dioxin is certainly a carcinogen.
	Right.
	There's no question about that.
	All right, hold on, Wayne.
	and we'll be right back to you.
	Now we take you back to the night of May 3rd, 1996, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	you you
	Back now to Wayne Green.
	Hi, Wayne.
	Hi there.
	Alright, back to the phones.
	West of the Rockies, Wayne Green is on the air.
	You're on the air with him, actually.
	Good evening, Art.
	First, I want to say I love your Dreamland program.
	This is the first time I caught your coast-to-coast.
	Oh, well, here you go.
	Glad to have you.
	Where are you?
	My name is David, and I'm from Glendale, Arizona.
	Okay, David.
	I just caught the part where he was talking about the moon mission, and I had a question concerning debunking it as far as how to explain the... Why don't you read the book?
	Well, I might read it, but I just had a question.
	I'd like to.
	My question is, how did they explain the picture of the Earth?
	Oh, that's a very good point.
	It's a very good point.
	They took a picture of Earth from space, from the moon.
	And you're telling me that you do not think that any of our computer simulations could possibly do that, right?
	I wouldn't tell you that.
	Okay, don't tell me that.
	All right.
	Somebody in our chat room listening to you on KARN 920 in Little Rock, Arkansas.
	I make all of my co-workers listen to you at the Arkansas Democrat Gazette, the home of Bill Clinton.
	That's what it says.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, how's it going?
	It's going.
	What's on your mind, sir?
	It's a strange luck, and I have a couple of I did these experiments in the late 80s when I was a doctoral student in nuclear engineering at Rensselaer.
	I'm an RPI graduate.
	I have a doctorate from RPI and two master's degrees from RPI.
	I was a first executive in residence at RPI.
	Well, I have in my hot little hands the original article from Ponds and Fleshman.
	Right.
	I understand you said you're getting power out, but is it chemical power or nuclear power?
	Heat power.
	That's chemical.
	It's not chemical, no.
	It's not fusion because then you'd be dead.
	Because if you got one watt of fusion power, you'd have ten to the ninth neutrons.
	Yes, I understand all of that.
	And we're covering that very thoroughly in Cold Fusion Magazine.
	Have you talked to Steve Jones at BYU?
	Yes, I have.
	And he has been debunked very thoroughly in my magazine.
	Well, I don't think so, because his theory is that... Well, all the other physicists think so.
	I don't think it works the way you say it does.
	Well, at RPI, as I recall reading in the RPI review, you were successful in duplicating Pons and Fleischmann's... No, we weren't.
	You were not successful.
	No one was.
	Oh, no.
	What do you mean, no one?
	Someone at Los Alamos that claimed they did, but no one was.
	Oh, a number of places did succeed.
	A number of them.
	It's all smoke and mirrors.
	It is all smoke and mirrors.
	Yes, I know.
	I've heard that from John Huizinga.
	You would be dead if you had one watt of power from neutrons.
	All right, all right.
	Hold it, folks.
	Let's take this one at a time.
	He says if you had one watt, That you would generate a tremendous... End of the night, neutrons.
	Alright, and how do you... Okay, now pause.
	How do you answer that, Wayne?
	I say that it does not generate those neutrons.
	Do the calculations, run the numbers.
	I know, I have published very scientific articles on this with all of the calculations.
	It doesn't matter where you publish it, you're appealing just exactly how this works.
	You could publish it in a rag, but it... Look, look, look.
	Call her, call her.
	Yeah.
	This has got to be a conversation that people can listen to, and that means you talk, then Wayne talks.
	Hold on, let me turn down my radio.
	Then you talk.
	You turn down your radio, and Wayne, you go ahead and then we'll let him respond.
	Okay, I really didn't want to get into a technical conversation on Cooper pairs and so forth, because this is something that I've just had to learn recently.
	And I don't think this will be of much interest, getting into a technical thing.
	I say, for goodness sakes, read the magazine which has articles by the top scientists in the world on this.
	Okay, my turn.
	And find out what's going on, rather than just going by the negative things that came out as a result of the business contacts.
	Alright, Carl, go ahead.
	Okay, here's the thing.
	I don't think that your magazine is credible because I remember in the late seventies... But you haven't read it!
	No, it's my turn.
	I let you talk.
	You let me talk.
	When I was in the late seventies, I saw this antenna theory come out in Lyndon LaRouche's Fusion magazine.
	Do you think that's a credible magazine?
	No.
	Okay, well that's where this theory first came out, of this antenna theory for AIDS.
	And now you're saying that Cold Fusion is going down the same road.
	You can't duplicate the experiments of Pons and Fleshman.
	No one has been able to do it.
	You're wrong.
	No, I'm not wrong.
	It has been reproduced 100 times in countries all over the world.
	No, I'm not wrong.
	They're not getting nuclear energy out of it.
	They're getting chemical energy.
	Nobody said they were getting nuclear energy.
	Then it's not fusion.
	Then it's not called fusion.
	So why do you want to argue about this coast-to-coast with me on the telephone?
	Why don't you at least read the magazine and get the information?
	I'm not going to buy your magazine because... Okay, well then you don't want to know.
	Oh, I do know.
	If you don't... Oh, you already know.
	I do think... I rest my case.
	Alright, yeah, I think that it's a little unfair for that caller to sit out there and say, it ain't so, and I don't want to read about it and confuse myself with any facts.
	So, that's a little unfair.
	Alright, last year there were ColdFusion conferences in Monaco, in Russia, in Italy, in India, See, the United States has three of them.
	There was one in Japan, and so forth.
	These people are not getting together all over the world because something doesn't work.
	Alright, very good.
	Yeah, it seems like an awful lot of money to spend to set these guys up over in the south of France for no reason at all.
	There's bound to be something to it.
	Is there anything to what he says about it not being an actual cold fusion, keyword, reaction?
	Could it be?
	Well, how else do you have transmutation of elements other than by that?
	Well, the answer is you don't.
	And you have said that after the reaction process has been going on for a while, they look at the contents and they find what?
	They find many elements that were not there to start with.
	For example?
	For example, copper, for example, silver, beryllium, boron, antimony, and so forth.
	All right, good, Wayne.
	Stay right there.
	We'll be back to you after the break.
	Wayne Green is my guest, the editor of 73 Magazine, if you have anything you want to ask or contribute.
	We are here.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 1996.
	Music Music
	Music Music
	you You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Costa Costean from May 3rd, 1996.
	Cold fusion at home, anybody?
	We're going to roll over it again here in a minute.
	I'm getting all kinds of faxes.
	People want to know how to do it.
	We're about to tell you.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 1996.
	Wayne Green.
	Hey, all right.
	Yes.
	On that water thing, there's a book that everybody ought to read, you included.
	All right.
	Have you read Your Body's Many Cries for Water by Batman Gelby?
	I have not.
	By golly, read it, and you will be drinking eight glasses of water a day for the rest of your life, at least.
	I guarantee it.
	I've begun to drink a lot more water, Wayne.
	I think it's good for people.
	I love my groundwater here.
	I have a well also, but I still distill everything.
	Do read that book.
	I know it's painful, Wayne, but I've got a whole stack of facts here saying, come on, get them to repeat the cold fusion experiment.
	We missed the first part of the show.
	I'm sorry, but we're going to have to roll over it once more.
	Cold fusion at home, folks.
	Here's how you do it.
	Wayne Green.
	Okay, let's see now.
	You use potassium carbonate in water, and it doesn't make an awful lot of difference what your concentration is.
	And you have a couple of nickels, which you hang into it, put some either solder on or clip leads onto them, but don't have anything but the nickel in the water.
	And you pass a current through it and if you have a couple of batteries there, 24 to 30 volts or something like that will generate enough current so that you can heat that water.
	You put a thermometer in the water and then a thermometer outside so that you can measure the difference in heat.
	And you will find after a few hours and maybe a couple of days, it depends on how fast the hydrogen from the liquid goes into the nickel.
	That heat will start being generated and the temperature of the liquid will go way up.
	And then you want to have a little stir in there to stir it.
	And that's a simple experiment that you can do on your kitchen table.
	Alright, well we didn't quite cover all the details.
	Now you can solder onto the two nickels.
	Right.
	But you say that you don't want that copper portion of the wire in the water?
	That's right.
	So you only want the nickels in the water?
	In the water, right.
	If you had palladium, that would work a little better.
	But nickel works fine.
	Dr. Patterson has been very successful with his nickel-coated and then palladium-coated on top of that.
	Okay, but, Wayne, you would solder the wire to the edge of the nickel and then just dip the nickel into the water?
	That's correct.
	Okay, and you do that on each side of the glass, and then you pass about 36 volts, 40 volts, something like that?
	Anything around there, sure.
	And then the temperature will begin to build in this process?
	As the hydrogen there and their heat loads up, you will find that it begins to generate extra heat.
	What happens is that if you use a lithium bat, the hydrogen plus the lithium fuses together and becomes beryllium, and then another hydrogen fuses onto that, making it into boron.
	And when you look at the chemical weights of that, you find that when you've made two hydrogens and lithium together, you have a little extra mass left over, and that is what generates your heat.
	Because, you know, we have Einstein's formula, E equals mc squared, which means a little tiny bit of matter makes an awful lot of extra energy.
	Make sense?
	Yes, and one other warning, and that is that the water will continue to get hot, and then if you don't cool that water in some way, it will either boil off or possibly even explode.
	Well, if it boils off, then you can generate, you know, it just will take off on its own, so don't let it do that.
	Just use it to test out the principle, and then you'll find that this works.
	One odd thing, on the last time I was on, some months ago, the thing that attracted the most reader interest was when you asked me about, you know, how you make money.
	And we got into a thing about Ham Radio wanting a tower, and I said, well, you know, the best way to not have interference is to have to live on a 200 acre farm.
	That's right.
	And I said, you know, anybody can do that.
	And, boy, people were interested.
	You know, how do you make money?
	I finally sat down and wrote a little booklet on making money, a beginner's guide, pointing out how anybody can become a millionaire within seven years, and if they're really determined, within five.
	How?
	Well, that's in the booklet.
	What you have to know is the basic secret, and fundamentally it is the way that you aim your life.
	There are three major ways.
	That you can be poor all your life, or not make much money at any rate.
	And number one is to work for a large corporation.
	Number two is to work for the government.
	And number three is to teach.
	And what do our schools and colleges aim you for?
	Working for large corporations, working for the government, and teaching.
	It's true.
	But these are not the routes to making much money.
	The easiest route to making money is to be an entrepreneur and have your own business.
	But this means that you have to learn a lot.
	And you're real stupid if you learn on your own money when there are other people out there who would be delighted to tell you to learn.
	And what I do in my book is say, here's how you go about it.
	Well, so you've got a book on how to get rich, huh?
	How to Make Money, A Beginner's Guide.
	You know, I've always had kind of a strange attitude about money.
	I'm comfortable now.
	I'm not rich, but I'm comfortable, and it's sort of as though, Wayne, when I get enough money to have the toys I want, and my house, and I'm comfortable, and then I sort of don't care whether I have any more or not.
	Isn't that weird?
	Well, no, it isn't.
	I've never been interested in making money.
	Not one of my projects that I've ever started has been for the purpose of making money.
	I've always done things because, heck, somebody ought to do that.
	And then I make money.
	Well, I've noticed that the money seems to come as a byproduct of having fun.
	Exactly.
	I haven't really worked in years, but I've been having an awful lot of fun.
	Oh, well, good.
	You know, we're here for such a short time.
	If you're not having fun, then you need to re-examine what you do.
	Oh, Lordy, why work at something that isn't fun?
	That's crazy.
	I know.
	What a waste of a lifetime.
	I mean, look at you.
	You really did it.
	You've about made a living off ham radio.
	Of course.
	My major hobby.
	And an adventure.
	My gosh.
	Ham radio got me two trips around the world.
	And a hunting safari in Africa.
	I could go on and on about the expeditions to weird places.
	I've been up to Nepal, Lesotho, Swaziland, operated from the King's Palace in Jordan and so forth.
	That's great.
	I've always wanted to take off to a little south, maybe Christmas Island.
	Oh, I've got some contacts for you there.
	Do you?
	You bet.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Where are you, sir?
	Illinois.
	Illinois, all right.
	All right, I've got a question for Wayne, your guest.
	Yes.
	Is that booklet about money, should I, like, send you a couple bucks?
	Send five.
	Five dollars.
	Right.
	And I've got a couple questions.
	Why be cheap?
	I say, why should I be cheap about it?
	Sure.
	Okay, when I transfer the heat to energy, I'm going to try that experiment.
	What would be the easiest way to transfer the energy to usable energy?
	Well, you want to build something a little bit larger than a glass on the table for this.
	And the best way is to have some kind of a cell with your metal in it and the electrolyte and just Uh, exchange that into whatever you want to radiate the heat from.
	In other words, for example, caller, seems to me you could make, you could build a unit and literally put it inside of, uh, a water heater, for example.
	Right.
	And heat the water for your house.
	Yep.
	Yeah, that's interesting, I might try that.
	Um, I also got a question, uh, where can I get your cold fusion exit?
	Oh, uh, Wayne Green, Peterborough, New Hampshire.
	0-3-4-5-8.
	And you'll send me what?
	Well, if you send me a couple dollars, I'll send you an overview on ColdFusion, bringing you up to date on where the state-of-the-art is, and that'll tell you how to subscribe, which isn't cheap.
	That'll be great, I'll do that.
	And I've got one more question.
	If I made that AIDS and the virus killer, You talked about patents.
	Is that legal to make it, just as long as I didn't sell it?
	Oh yes, the patents that have been granted on that are by the hospitals for taking the blood out of the body and passing it through an electric current.
	There are no patents on the device for doing it in the body, in vivo as they call it.
	I also read a little bit of research that was done With some effect, Wayne, people taking slowly the blood out of the body, heating it to a certain temperature, then cooling it and returning it to the body.
	And they thought, and have some good results with that, with regard to AIDS.
	Well, they've had a lot of deaths, too.
	Because if you heat it in a microwave and put it back in the body, it kills you.
	Oh.
	Well, I think it was just a thermal heating.
	Yeah, I hope so.
	Okay.
	Yes, there's a book out by Dr. William Douglas using ultraviolet for that, and that is one of the books on my list of books people are crazy if they don't read.
	All right.
	Ease to the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Mr. Green reminds me of a person who I have done some reading about lately named Buckminster Fuller.
	I wonder if Mr. Green ever knew Mr. Fuller and if you had anything to say about him.
	Yeah, I knew Bucky, and as a matter of fact, see, I'm one of the founders of American Mensa.
	Oh, you are?
	Yeah.
	Those four of us got together and formed American Mensa, and I was the first secretary for the first couple of years.
	But at any rate, we had Bucky at a national meeting that was held up in Canada, and he addressed us and everything.
	It was fascinating.
	What is your IQ?
	My IQ?
	About 175.
	Is it really?
	Yeah.
	Um, another man with a very high IQ, 150 plus, was a guy they're calling the Unabomber?
	Mm-hmm.
	Uh, and I read his manifesto, and if you erase the fact that he's a cold-blooded killer, and you just read the manifesto, there are many parts of it that make some sense.
	Yeah.
	Did you read it?
	Nope.
	Nope.
	That was in newspapers, and I'm sorry to report that I don't read any newspapers.
	You don't read newspapers.
	If it doesn't make Newsweek or Time or U.S.
	News or something like that, I miss it.
	I see.
	I need a filter.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Where are you?
	I'm in North Hills, California.
	All right.
	Go ahead.
	Turn your radio off and go.
	Yes, I'd like to.
	This is my first time calling here.
	What I'd like to say is, if I could just have... Turn your radio off, sir.
	Yes, how's that?
	Just turn it off.
	Okay.
	What I'd like to say is, first off, if I could just have 45 seconds just to mention a couple of things.
	First off, is there an element 15, and if so, how is it spelled?
	Sir, I'm going to ask you again to turn your radio off, and it'll be the last time I'm going to ask.
	Okay?
	Yes, sir.
	It's turned off.
	Yeah, okay.
	Thank you.
	Number two, footprints on the moon.
	Is it regular sand?
	And if there is, there's no atmosphere there.
	Would they leave footprints?
	Number three, the rocket imprints that were left from the rocket leaving, same thing.
	Is it regular sand?
	There's no air.
	Number four, John Glenn on down.
	Oh, hold on.
	Look, we can't take a whole laundry list here.
	Let's take them one at a time.
	Element 15.
	115.
	Oh, 115.
	Is there such a thing?
	How would I know?
	When I went to college, it ended at 92, and that was the end of the line.
	Yeah, as far as we know, there's been speculation about 115 with Bob Lazar and people like that.
	That's all we know about.
	But you're up in the radioactive element there, and I'm working down in the 20s.
	Okay, the sun and the shadows.
	Well, we know what it would be on Earth.
	What would it be there?
	If we'd never been there, how do you know if the shadows would cross?
	Pardon me?
	How would you know if the shadows would cross and what angle everything would be at if we never were there or we're just going off, you know, from here?
	Yeah, well, it's a simple matter of mathematics.
	And the sun shines straight and you can measure the angle.
	It has nothing to do with where it is.
	Atmosphere doesn't change the angles that the sun shines.
	So if you have Two people standing almost side by side and one has a short shadow and the other has a long shadow.
	How do you do that from one radiation, from one light source?
	That's a good point.
	Okay, and as far as the rocket blast on the sand and the footprints, is it regular sand and no air for both of those questions?
	There's no air, no moisture, whatever.
	Okay.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hi.
	Hi, I just wanted to tell you this is the best program you've ever heard.
	I love it!
	Where are you, dear?
	In Oklahoma City.
	Oklahoma City, alright.
	And I'm gonna... I have tons of questions.
	I mean, I could talk to this guy forever more.
	Well, right.
	I answer everything.
	Alright, well go ahead and launch a question.
	Well, I'm going to send off for his things and everything.
	I've got his address.
	I just wanted to tell you that this is just the greatest program you've ever had.
	I'm just laughing.
	I love it.
	Alright.
	Well, I'm glad you're enjoying this.
	High entertainment at the very least, Wayne.
	Alright, time for one more at the bottom of the hour here.
	You're on the air with Wayne Green on the first time caller line.
	Where are you, please?
	I'm at Salt Lake City.
	Salt Lake City, all right?
	I was just curious, you used to advertise an air filter that used ozone, I believe.
	No, it was not an air filter, dear.
	It was something that introduced ozone into the air, ozone and ions, and it takes particulate matter out of the air and it works very well, thank you.
	Well, I wondered, you know, they talk about ozone damaging the atmosphere and so on, so I just wondered if Mr. Green had heard of this and if he had an opinion on it.
	All right, Wayne, are you aware of the machines that introduce ozone and ions into the air?
	Oh, yes.
	As a matter of fact, I think the problem that they're worrying about is a lack of ozone, not too much of it.
	That's right.
	How about the effectiveness of these machines that introduce this into the house air and eliminate particulate matter?
	Well, every report that I've seen says that they work well.
	As a matter of fact, I just had a call yesterday from a chap where they were using that as a health aid for someone who had cancer and was in the last stages of cancer.
	All right, Wayne, we're gonna have to hold it there.
	Stay right there.
	We'll be right back to you.
	I, too, use one of those machines in this house, and I can tell you it works.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 1996.
	This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast AM concert.
	the world.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 1996.
	Interesting item from Reuters News, from Sydney, Australia.
	Gorillas and chimpanzees should be reclassified into the same species group as humans because of the closeness of their DNA, according to a team of Australian and New Zealand scientists.
	That's a new one.
	I've got more and we'll get to it later.
	We're going to do another 30 minutes of phone calls and information with Wildman Green.
	Now we take you back to the night of May 3rd, 1996 on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	All right, back now to Wayne Green, all the way to New Hampshire, where it's no doubt getting late in the morning and the sun will be up soon.
	Is that about right?
	Yep, it should be up here in about, well, I can just see it coming over the horizon probably in about five to six minutes.
	There you are.
	All right, back to the phones, Wayne.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Good evening.
	Wayne Green?
	Wayne Green.
	Oh, I thought this was... I've got a guest.
	Are you not listening to your radio, sir?
	Yes, I am.
	Well, then you should know!
	Well, uh, I thought this was the, uh, uh, Bell Show.
	Yes, it is.
	This is Art Bell.
	Oh, is this you, Art?
	Yes, but I've got a guest.
	No, no.
	Oh, never mind the guest.
	Oh, I, I'm, I'm sorry, uh, well, I had a, I had the answer for you, Art, uh, for that, uh, question on, um, uh, on the moon, or why at least Prince.
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Oh, the reason being is that all of the moon material is paramagnetic, if you recall.
	I don't.
	Yeah, and so it kind of acts as if, you remember like if you have a glass table and you put metal on it, you put a magnet underneath it.
	Now, I hate to tell you this, but I happen to be a specialist on the moon.
	Why would you hate to tell me that?
	Well, I'm a little reticent to say what I know about it.
	Like, I've been listening to you for months and months on Hoagland, and I guarantee you there's nothing on the moon.
	Alright, well, what are your qualifications?
	You're an expert.
	I've studied it for over 60 years.
	I'm, in fact, I'm applying for 31 Nobel Prizes, and I'm not doing... You're applying for 31 Nobel Prizes?
	Yes.
	I'm not doing thesis.
	I'm going to do a presentation, and I guarantee you I'm going to devastate the entire scientific world with the information I have, so... That's what I like, ambition.
	Well, there's several other things.
	A real nice fellow, Dr. Kubrick, at Stanford Research Institute, has been working on the... Cold fusion.
	Yeah, cold fusion.
	I know Kubrick.
	Yeah, he's a nice fellow.
	And, you know, he lost a fellow down there that got killed because they had an explosion.
	Yep.
	That was early on.
	Yeah, right.
	Since then, there's been a couple more explosions, but nobody hurt.
	Well, I'll tell you a little secret.
	I've already played with something that's far, far more overwhelming than cold fusion.
	What is that?
	Well, a friend of mine, an old-timer, has already perfected it, and we're sitting on it.
	What is it?
	Well, what it is, it's superconductivity at room temperature.
	Well, I think I've read that that Has been achieved.
	What do you know about that, Wayne?
	Superconductivity.
	What is the state of the art?
	Well, you know, I've tried to keep up on that, but not to become an expert on it.
	But as I understand it, they have brought the temperature up of superconductivity, but certainly not room temperature.
	It's been brought up to, you know, in the minus, what, 250 or something like that degrees?
	Yes.
	With ceramics.
	We're still waiting for more breakthroughs on that, and that would certainly be welcome, but I'm not sure how that's going to provide energy for the world at inexpensive price.
	It would simply transfer it at reasonable rates.
	Yeah, it would certainly cut down on the cost of moving it around.
	It sure would.
	But if you can generate it at home, you don't have to have wires anymore.
	Yeah, that's a very good point.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Where are you, please?
	Pleasanton, California.
	All right.
	Go ahead.
	Oh, okay.
	I got my radio going so I'm going to turn it off.
	Okay, it's off.
	Um, God, I just, I have a whole list of stuff in front of me.
	So I'm going to try to listen to you forever.
	Um, my first question is, um, kind of like why would, uh, the government want to perpetrate such a sham on us as, as, um, a phony moon landing?
	Forty billion dollars.
	Pardon me?
	Four zero.
	Forty billion dollars.
	Yeah, that makes sense to me.
	The money does.
	But I'm looking at maybe some other angles.
	I realize they have to justify the funds, so they're going to set up a studio somewhere and shoot it.
	And I have a very open mind.
	I haven't decided what I believe yet.
	And as a matter of fact, I'm getting really, in my old age here, Art, you're killing me off.
	I thought I was a strongly convicted person and all of a sudden I'm the I have no convictions at all.
	I changed my mind from one minute to the next here with your show.
	I'm trying to look at what maybe the big picture would be.
	I know they're gearing up the nation for all the little things that they're pulling, kind of like you did with your Rockwell materials.
	I know the other night you mentioned that someone asked you if you were going to definitely tell us the results from this lab.
	Yes, I am definitely going to tell the results.
	What's happened, Wayne?
	You wouldn't know about this.
	Somebody anonymously, from Charleston, South Carolina, sent me materials, supposedly gathered by their grandfather, at Roswell.
	So I have alleged Roswell materials.
	I've got them off, getting them tested in a lab right now.
	And we'll see what happens.
	I have no idea whether I've got junk or treasure.
	We'll find out.
	But that is what the lady was referring to.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	Yes, hello.
	Yes.
	Just turn off your radio.
	Yes, thank you, Wayne.
	Okay, it's off.
	Good.
	Yeah, I've been on the road, so I've been listening to the program here.
	I haven't had a chance to write anything down.
	I've got a lot of questions, but one of the things I want to know is how can I get a transcript of this, because I haven't been able to catch it all.
	All right, sir.
	Listen to me.
	For those of you who want copies of this program, and I know there are going to be many,
	you can get them by calling 1-800-917-4278.
	That's 1-800-917-4278.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hi.
	Hello, Art Bell.
	Hello.
	Boy, it's been a long time.
	Wayne Green.
	Yeah.
	I'm a sightless ham operator, and I'm wondering if it would be possible for you to somehow or another get your 73 magazine recorded for us sightless hams who can't avail ourselves of that.
	That's a good point, Wayne.
	It's not that hard to do.
	Right.
	We used to have that, and I think the service finally didn't have enough customers, so they gave up on it.
	Have you ever considered going through something like the Library of Congress or the American Printing House for the Blind or something like that?
	Well, I don't know much about it.
	Okay, I would like for you to do that, and then can I just get somebody to send you a letter for me and get a list of all this stuff you have available?
	You bet.
	I've got a list available.
	Well, let me ask you this.
	How much money would I need to spend to cover it all?
	Well, the list is free, and from then on you can pick and choose my World War II submarine adventures, my travels, telling people how they can travel inexpensively all over the world.
	I have a book out on how to repair all of the major problems of the U.S.
	government.
	And, oh gosh, I've got a list of books that you're crazy if you haven't read.
	What's the name of the book that debunked the moon myth?
	Oh, that's called NASA Mooned America.
	How appropriate.
	And the author is being very secretive.
	His name is Rene, and I have kind of an exclusive arrangement to sell his books for him.
	Most of the books, I would say, with water to exceptions the book that i recommend that
	people read and that book that i felt because uh...
	and recommending them because you are a read about because i make any money out
	of it of first-of-all i do on the air with wayne green
	winger wayne green
	uh... great like in red bread green
	was was on your concern Turn off your radio.
	Yeah, turn off your radio.
	We have to turn off radio.
	Yes, you do.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hi.
	East of the Rockies?
	Art Bell?
	Yes.
	How you doing?
	I'm doing fine.
	What's on your mind?
	Got a question.
	One comment was, when Wayne earlier tonight talked about the cold fusion experiment, he said that he used sodium bicarbonate.
	Yeah, potassium carbonate.
	It's better.
	Protecting my apartment's better.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	That's it.
	Alright.
	Thank you.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hi.
	Good morning, Art and Wayne.
	Dennis from Portland calling.
	Yes, Dennis.
	I have another celebrity ham operator to add to your list for you.
	Alright.
	Major Jesse Marcel.
	Junior?
	Senior.
	Senior.
	As a matter of fact, I thought Senior had passed away.
	Yes, he had, but that is how the Roswell story was broken.
	A fellow that he used to talk to on the radio very often, a good friend of his, went to a Stanton Friedman lecture and after the lecture walked up to Stanton and mentioned what Marcel had told him and asked him if he'd like to get in contact with him and within a year the Unsolved Mysteries special was on the air and the rest is history.
	I'll be darned!
	I didn't know that.
	Yeah, I spent some time with Stanton Friedman and he Relayed that story to me.
	Pretty interesting how it broke through the Ham Radio.
	Yeah, fascinating.
	Well, score one more for Ham Radio.
	Thank you.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hi.
	Good morning, Art and Wayne.
	Where are you, sir?
	I'm in Odessa, Texas.
	All right.
	And first of all, I wanted to say I don't mean to discredit Mr. Green or anybody in any way.
	And I'm the one that called and told you I know that when you get the results back, you're going to report exactly, you know, what you get back.
	But what is to stop The government from saying, okay, this is what you can say and this is what you can't say, you know?
	Well, me.
	Well, I don't mean you.
	I mean, Mr. Green.
	I see.
	Oh, the government, with one exception, has no control over what I say and usually hates it.
	Amen.
	I have a simple procedure that Congress could enact, which would make it so that every government bureau would cut itself Enthusiastically and cooperatively in half within three years.
	Great.
	I have a question for you, Mr. Green.
	And they would hate it.
	On your book, The Mending of the Government, figuring out what's wrong with the government, why are you not in the running for president?
	I'm not a good administrator.
	Ah, well, we'll vote for you.
	You don't want me in there running things.
	I have ideas.
	I do a lot of research, a lot of reading, and then I say, put it all together and say, okay, here's what the best ideas that I have found anywhere in the world on these things.
	Right.
	Those that can, teach, and those that can't, do.
	Right.
	All right, sir, thank you.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	Call the wildcard lines, area 702-727-1295.
	Thank you.
	702-727-1295. Thank you. East of the Rocky, call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hello.
	Good morning, Art. Good morning, Wayne.
	Good morning, Wayne.
	I'm in Baker, California right now.
	I'm Steve from California.
	I actually live in Victorville.
	I'm a truck driver.
	My question, first of all, is for Art.
	Art, I'm about to head up through 127 into Pahrump.
	I'm having problems with the radio signal.
	What is the station I listen to?
	Try 840 KVEG in Las Vegas or 890 from Utah.
	Okay.
	Either one of those or 1000 from Seattle.
	Okay.
	Alright.
	Thank you very much.
	Is that it?
	My question for you Mr. Green is about the moon thing and everything.
	You explain a little bit here and there, but basically you keep coming back to, well, why don't you read the book?
	Right.
	And I'm sorry, sir, I'm listening to a radio and I drive a truck for a living.
	Okay.
	I, you know, I would like to hear more about things.
	I would just like to hear you explain more because I think you're a very intelligent person, but I would, I, I will, I too am inquisitive, but I don't seem to be hearing much from you other than read the book.
	Okay.
	Well, yes, because that would be the topic for a couple of hours.
	There's the matter of the sun's heat.
	Cold does not radiate.
	You know how a thermos bottle works.
	And therefore, we have this sun's heat because they're there on the moon only in the daytime.
	And you have to have an enormous cooling system to keep them from boiling.
	Number two, the solar flares and the solar wind, which cause our aurora.
	We're protected by the Van Allen Belt.
	As soon as you get out of there, you have a thousand to a million times more radiation than the body can stand, and it takes an estimated six feet of lead to protect you from that, and they didn't have that on any of our trips out there.
	There's no, let's see now, there's no mention whatever at any time of these astronauts seeing the stars.
	And yet that's the one thing that's going to really jump out at you once you're outside there.
	Then there's a matter of the spacesuit pressure.
	It takes at least 5 or 6 pounds per square inch to keep the body from falling apart.
	And yet, if you have 5 or 6 pounds per square inch over our atmospheric pressure, you have something like a football which doesn't bend, and those suits should look like Michelin men.
	Then you have the matter of navigation, where they were able to pinpoint navigate over an enormous distance with almost no corrections, which is almost impossible.
	Then you have the 1967, when this whole thing first got going, and we had 11 astronauts die under strange circumstances all in one year.
	Some of them are reputed to be causing trouble and maybe blowing the whistle on this.
	So, the book goes through all of these things in great detail.
	Alright, good Wayne.
	I'm glad you got to get to that.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hi.
	Hi, yes.
	Let me turn off my radio.
	Thank you, and tell us where you're calling from.
	I'll call from Houston.
	Alright.
	I just wanted to ask, I have seen a special this evening on TV, on Spanish television.
	I'm not sure if y'all can see that.
	No.
	It was all regarding UFO conspiracy and a whole bunch of other things.
	Dave mentioned something about sacred geometry.
	I wanted to see if Wayne knew anything about that.
	No, but I've read enough about UFOs over the years to be quite convinced that they're real.
	I've had experiences myself.
	I've had close friends with experiences.
	And I don't believe that thousands of people are concocting them.
	No, nor do I. Nor do I. No, there is something to it.
	There's certainly something to it.
	There's a lot to it.
	And that's why when we have this SETI, the SETI project of trying to detect radio signals from other solar systems, I think that's a waste of time and money because I believe that we're already, they're already here and in contact with us.
	And I think that radio transmission is something that we will use for a hundred years or so, and then go on to something much better and faster.
	All right, Wayne, it has been wonderful having you here.
	I want to give you a chance to give your address once again, so people can get in touch with you, and we'll have you on the air again.
	Okay, I'd love to.
	My address is Wayne Green, Peterborough, New Hampshire, 0-3-4-5-8.
	And if they want to fax me, The number is 603-588-3205, and don't wear my paper out too much.
	I do try to answer everybody.
	The last time I was on Art, I got over 2,500 letters and faxes.
	My goodness.
	And I got them all answered.
	You got them all answered?
	I got them all answered.
	I can't make that same claim.
	I get an immense amount of mail, and I try to answer what I can, but it's off into the realm of nearly impossible now.
	Well, you've probably got a lot more than 2,500 spread over several months.
	We bring it back in tubs.
	Right.
	I'm still getting letters every day from when I was on in November.
	No kidding.
	Well, now you're going to get lots more mail and your fax number again.
	and uh...
	says all three send as many pages as you want
	uh...
	five eighty eight uh...
	3205.
	All right.
	Wonderful.
	Well, you're a pure joy to have on, Wayne.
	Well, I've got so much more to talk about.
	We need another 10 hours.
	Yeah, well, we'll do it again.
	We'll do it again.
	No problem.
	Right.
	OK.
	Because we haven't even gotten into education and what can be done about that.
	We haven't gotten into longevity, how people can live to be 100 to 150 easily by making some small changes in their life, and on and on and on.
	The only question I've got about that longevity thing, and we'll end it there, Is, uh, does it require that you don't have fun?
	In other words, it seems like everything you do that is healthy for you, supposedly, is not fun, or does not taste good.
	No, that's not true at all.
	I'm eating a good diet now, and it tastes great.
	So... I'm not eating Big Macs, I'll admit that.
	All right.
	Well, we'll leave that for the next show, and we'll find out how we can be 150.
	Wayne, thank you, my friend.
	Well, thank you, Art.
	I've had a wonderful time.
	Just really enjoyed it.
	Looking forward to it again.
	73's.
	See you later, Wayne.
	Good night, America, from the high desert.
	See you Sunday on Dreamland.
	Monday night, Tuesday morning, back with the regular show.

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