Wayne Green, editor of 73 Magazine and ham radio pioneer (W2NSD for 60 years), defends cold fusion as viable despite industry suppression, citing Dr. Patterson’s "Patterson cell" and reader experiments generating excess heat—even in Canadian greenhouses—while dismissing radiation risks. He also promotes NASA Mooned America, exposing alleged Apollo hoaxes through technical flaws like missing retro-rocket marks and impossible lunar footprints, arguing $40B was wasted on staged missions. Skeptical callers debate paramagnetism in moon rocks and "sacred geometry" UFO claims, which Green supports based on personal encounters. His unconventional theories—from AIDS treatments via blood electrification to debunking ozone depletion myths—stem from decades of trusted editorials, though he admits past financial missteps. Ultimately, Green’s work blends amateur science, skepticism of mainstream narratives, and grassroots innovation, urging listeners to question authority while offering hands-on solutions. [Automatically generated summary]
Let us begin at the beginning, because a lot of people don't know who you are.
Never heard of Never Say Die.
Probably aren't hams.
Don't even know what ham radio really is, except sort of in an obscure way.
You know, every time there's an emergency or a hurricane, they've always got a ham on the screen communicating with the people that otherwise could not communicate.
Other than that, a lot of people don't know a damn thing about ham radio.
Of course, it depends somewhat on your age, but it does make it so that it is one heck of a lot of fun to learn about electronics and electricity, which provides one heck of a good career path these days for younger people.
And for older people, it's a way to never have to ever be lonely again because you turn on the switch no matter where you are in the world and you've got friends right there to talk to.
I don't know if you've ever felt it, but sometimes in the past, before we had little handy-talkies that we could take along, I go to some city that I hadn't visited before, and I'd sit there in the hotel room, and I'd say, boy, I wish I had somebody to talk to.
Well, so I know what the feeling is, and it's a terrible feeling of loneliness.
With amateur radio, if I have my little handy-talkie along with me, and it fits in my shirt pocket, no matter what city I'm in in the world, I have people to talk to right there.
I'm talking about a nice transceiver, a small tower, an antenna and rotator, and so forth, so that you can not just talk over a few hundred miles locally, but you can talk just about anywhere in the world.
I've had a life of adventure, mostly as a result of my interest in amateur radio.
And getting on a ship and going to a desert island with five other guys for a few days to set up ham equipment on this island and make as many thousands of contacts as you can in that short period to give everybody a card saying I contacted that country.
For instance, I got interested in amateur radio teletype early on.
And one of the teletype other teletype pioneers got me a job with the Guggenheim Museum on a Guggenheim grant building a color organ.
And if you're familiar with the Guggenheim Museum in New York and that strange mushroom shape, the reason that building was designed that way was to have that color organ as the center feature of the museum.
Well, I think it's because I'm a little bit out of step as far as time goes with everybody else.
And I seem to be able to figure out what's going to happen in the future and kind of help the world get there a little bit.
And, of course, that goes against the grain for an awful lot of people, and they say, oh, well, he's nuts.
When I spotted the idea of repeaters for amateurs, which we now all know comfortably as cellular telephones, I said, gee, that's something that I think people are going to really get a lot of fun out of, and it has all kinds of potential for making a major industry.
And I started publishing articles, one after the other, on how to set up these automatic relay stations for hams.
Now, repeaters are on large buildings or on top of mountains, and they simply allow you with a little handheld, you know, a small radio to communicate literally hundreds of miles in minutes.
And also, what I very much remember, Wayne, is when computers began to come on the scene, and you started doing all kinds of articles, and then you even devoted a magazine to computers before computers were considered to be anything at all.
Well, my success with repeaters, which turned into cellular telephones, told me that, hey, you can move the world a little bit with your magazine.
So when the first microcomputer came on the market, which was January 1975, I immediately started publishing articles on computers in 73 magazine.
And five months later, in May, I started putting together the first publication devoted entirely to computers, which was Byte Magazine, which you'll see on the newsstands.
It's one of the largest magazines in the country.
But I started that in May, and the first issue came out in August of 1975.
And then I started my second magazine, Microcomputing, in 1976.
And in 1979, I started the first magazine specifically designed for one computer, which was the RadioShack TRS-80, which was one of the largest selling computers in the country in the early days.
And still would be if they'd paid any attention to what I told them to do.
They lost billions and billions of dollars by ignoring me on that.
Well, I help make it happen, and that's my satisfaction.
I'm not the king of compact discs either, but I helped make that revolution happen, too, by starting a compact disc magazine just almost as soon as the first compact disc came out, known as CD Review.
And, of course, it's one of the largest music magazines in the country.
No, I got involved with Radio Teletype back in 1949 and helped pioneer that, publish the first articles and then the first books on the subject, and that's what got me into publishing.
And it was just like email at the time where we had maybe 50 amateurs all around the greater New York City, and you could sit there with a teletype and talk to any of them at any time, day or night.
Well, I keep chiding them about the things they ought to be doing as the major people in the field.
They have a responsibility to help promote the hobby.
And here we have what right now is kind of a dying hobby, and I think they ought to do something about that, and I know what they ought to do, and I explain it to them in the editorials.
Well, the reason it's slipping is because 30 years ago, our beloved ARRL put forth a rule change, proposed a rule change to the FCC, which virtually killed the hobby.
And what they proposed was that all amateurs would have to go down and get re-licensed and take a new exam and so forth in order to hold on to their privileges.
And the amateurs responded by a large percentage of them selling their equipment as quick as they could for anything they could get for it, which reflected by putting almost, well, put 85% of the ham radio dealers, the stores around the country out of business within a year.
It put almost 100% of the manufacturers out of business within a year.
And it killed off almost all of the ham radio clubs.
Back in the late 40s and all through the 1950s, we had over 5,000 school radio clubs around the country, and these were responsible for getting new hams.
And in those days, the ARL did a poll, and they found that 80% of all newcomers to amateur radio were teenagers.
Indeed, 50% were either 14 or 15 years old because they were in high school.
And this is where the clubs were.
Well, this whole infrastructure got blown away within a year by that proposed rule change.
Well, I was here fighting it every inch of the way with some of the hams supporting me, and of course the dedicated, devoted ARL members fighting me and hating me.
I know the people down there quite Well, and we're good friends, but you know, that doesn't mean that they're going to invite me in and say be on the board of directors.
Yeah, I wouldn't hold your breath because I'm a competitor, and they are primarily a business organization.
And so, every advertisement that I get for 73 magazine, they view as a loss to them.
We've got about 100,000 readers, and we're moving along.
I haven't made any major efforts to build the circulation or build advertising, but because I've been mostly interested in doing other things like this cold fusion project and so forth.
All right, let's talk a little bit about propagation, Wayne.
My AM radio stations depend on propagation, and people living away from a big 50,000 water know that it goes in and out and in and out and fades and so forth.
And these are conditions similar to those conditions on shortwave.
And all of this is affected by an 11-year sunspot cycle, activity on the sun, is it not?
This is a minimum, and that means that some of our, and we have a number of amateur radio bands, different groups of frequencies that we can use, and each one of those amateur bands, as we call them, bands of frequencies, has different propagation characteristics.
In other words, if I'm on the 20-meter band, which is the most popular of the shortwave amateur bands, after a few days of using it, I know that at this time of the morning, I'll be able to talk to Japan, and then a little later I'll be able to talk to South Africa, and then a little later I'll be able to talk to South America, and so forth.
And we know where those reflective layers that the sun builds for us up there up above the earth, we know about where they're going to be.
And you get used to that.
On the lower bands, we have an 80-meter band.
We know that during the daytime, we're not going to make contacts very far, but at night we can talk coast to coast without too much difficulty.
Well, of course, geosynchronous satellites cost a lot of money, and there is no source for that money for amateur radio.
We do have a couple dozen satellites up there, amateur radio satellites, that we can use, but they're not all talking with each other, making it so that we can make contacts all around the world 24 hours a day.
I have that conversation on tape, as a matter of fact, Barry Goldwater, not the conversation itself, but Barry Goldwater, saying that he asked General LeMay about Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.
And General LeMay cut loose with a string of invective and said, don't you ever ask me about that again.
Well, there have been several TV programs recently on the Roswell deal, and they didn't leave an awful lot of wiggle room as far as the question of whether a UFO crashed or not.
All right, cold fusion, we were about to take off on that, and I really want to know, and a lot of the audience wants to know, because, gee, Wayne, gas prices are hitting new highs.
Well, you can do it with a couple of nickels in a sodium mixture and put a little voltage on it, and you'll find that after a while it begins to generate a lot more heat than you can account for.
And, you know, you can put a thermometer in there.
Well, it takes a couple of days, and then you'll notice that the liquid begins to really heat up and far beyond the amount of energy that you're putting into it.
Now, it's had a lot of resistance because the oil companies, the coal companies, the gas companies, and the electric companies in their distribution system are in a panic over this because here is a source of energy that costs about one-tenth that of any of the fossil fuels and has no bad side effects.
It doesn't create any of the bad things that we get from nuclear energy and so forth.
Because the last time I was on, I got dozens and dozens of letters from Sarasota.
And at any rate, we have an inventor down there, Dr. Patterson, who has a patent, and it's the first patent, I think, in the history of the United States, just granted a couple of months ago, for a device which claims to put out more energy than goes into it.
And he claimed 20 times in the patent application, and that was accepted.
However, he demonstrated at a conference in Los Angeles back in December.
They set up his Patterson cell and had it operating there for all of the engineers and all of the power company people to see.
And they were using 1.3 watts of drive, and they were getting 1,300 watts of heat coming out of that.
And everybody could see all of the instrumentation.
It was right there in a clear plastic box.
So that's 1,000 times more power out than it took to drive it.
Now, what is happening here, after they use these cells for a little while, and then they put them on a mass spectrometer, and that means they measure what kind of elements are there after they've been using the cells compared to what elements went into it.
If they have palladium and lithium solution going in, it starts coming out with beryllium and boron and silver and copper and so forth.
So what's happening is that we're having a transmutation of elements.
Well, of course, everybody, all the scientists know this is impossible.
This is alchemy.
And therefore, this can't happen.
Everybody has made a mistake.
They've obviously made enormous mistakes somewhere, except that it works.
Well, how did they ignore the Wright brothers for six years after they showed that they could fly, and they still claimed they couldn't, that it was a mistake, and so forth?
And this has been the history of major breakthroughs in science for centuries.
Well, once you get it started, it keeps right on going.
And one of the problems that they've had in the early days was that after they turned off the power, this kept right on generating heat.
But they're able to control that now and they're able to start the reaction on demand and get it started within minutes now instead of hours or even weeks and months as it originally took when they first started experimenting with this.
Well, my suggestion is very simple, and it's NRA, and that doesn't stand for National Rifle Association.
That stands for Never Re-elect Anyone and flush that stuff out of Congress down there and just keep turning them over so that they can't be bribed by the lobbyists to stop progress.
And you'll see that these stay fairly constant for a while.
And then all of a sudden the temperature in the liquid will start going up.
And what happens is that the hydrogen in your water that has the sodium in it will go into the nickel in your five cent piece.
Right.
And by the time it gets up to where there's about 85% of the nickel has absorbed hydrogen.
And your nickel acts like a sponge as far as that's concerned.
And when you get about 85% in there, all of a sudden this reaction starts taking place.
well arm and it'll just As a matter of fact, one of my readers has suggested that you use nickel or palladium as a filter in order to build up hydrogen for use as a hydrogen fuel.
We were getting reports up until just a little over a year ago, and then all of a sudden the lid went on, and there's been no more reports coming out.
So I expect that we will be seeing a Toyota car within a year or two, maybe three, that is powered by a power source that just will keep on going.
Indeed, the last time that we saw anything from them, Dr. Fleischman was on British television in an interview, and he held up a bottle about the size of a thermos bottle, and they said, well, Dr. Fleischman, you know, how much power can you get out of that little thing?
And he says, oh, about 10,000 watts.
Well, that's enough to run a car.
And they said, well, yes, but how often do you have to replenish the fuel in there?
He says, oh, about every 10 to the 5th years, every 100,000 years.
Well, I'm keeping my Readers of 73 magazine up with this in my editorials.
But in Cold Fusion magazine, I'm publishing the theory behind why this works.
And, of course, that makes it so that the researchers have some clues to go on rather than just experimenting empirically and testing this, that, and the other thing to see which works best.
Art, please ask Wayne if he knows what the maximum operating temperature of the Patterson cell is.
A Patterson cell hooked to a Tesla turbine will provide about 80 kilowatts, provided the cell can operate at a steam-producing temperature, and it would fit in the shack you store your gardening tools and lawnmower in.
Thanks to Wayne Green's pushing computers over the years, a great number of young people who might have taken up ham radio as a hobby instead took up computers.
The result is ham radio is becoming an old man's hobby.
He believes that there are many things that will cause it, toxins, recreational drug use, particularly a lot of other things.
But the immune suppression is not, he says, from a virus, and you can't show me there's enough of that virus, if in fact it is a virus, to ever cause anything.
So that's what he believes.
And he says that when you give somebody AZT, and I'm not an expert on this, but that the immune system spikes.
In other words, it does come up.
T-cell count goes up because you are in effect challenging the immune system, if not on the way to destroying it with AZT.
So quickly it goes up, then quickly it takes a big dive.
Okay, let me talk a little bit about this whole thing.
I heard a couple of years ago that a fellow named Bob Beck had come up with a Solution to the AIDS problem.
And I had known him a little bit for several years, so I got in touch with him.
And he faxed me a bunch of information, including a copy from Science News of the information that the Albert Einstein College of Medicine had discovered and announced that they had a cure for AIDS.
And what they did was pass a small, a very small electric current through the blood, and they claimed that this then prevented the virus, HIV virus, from hooking onto the white cells and that the virus would then die.
So they have gone ahead since then and patented that process where they take the blood out of the arm, pass it through the electric current through it, and then put it back in the arm again.
And of course this is a way that can take six months or so to do that and cost $20,000 to $50,000 in the process.
It has a drawback in that the virus, whatever it is, seems to live in the lymph glands and stay there, kind of hold up in the lymph glands, and then come out after a period of years.
So what Bob Beck did was say, well, now golly, if you want to pass electric current through the blood, you don't have to take it out to do that.
You can just put a couple of electrodes on your arteries, and you don't want to pass electric current through the heart, so let's do it on the arteries down at the ankles, and put a small voltage on there.
It takes actually about 25 volts.
And this will pass the 50 microamperes of current through the blood that you want and should clear it up.
And indeed, according to the Albert Einstein Hospital, it clears up not only any virus, but any bacteria, fungus, parasites, or anything else that are living in the blood.
So Beck promoted this, and I said, gee, this sounds like a good idea.
So I made copies of his material available along with a very simple electric circuit to provide the 25 volts and to flip it back and forth a few times a second so that you don't build up any resistance to it.
And I put this in a booklet and sent out several thousand of these and kind of waited to hear from anybody that was having success.
And I didn't hear very much.
I did get a call from a fellow over in France thanking me profusely for saving his son's life.
But other than that, I didn't hear much.
And so I said, gee, you know, does this really work or not?
Because I'm a reporter, not a religious zealot on these things.
And then in January, Bob Beck gave a talk down at the Global Sciences Conference in Tampa.
And I was on the program, too, talking about cold fusion and anything else that was in my mind, rattling around.
And Bob Beck had his unit there and had the whole sheaf of laboratory reports of people who were in dire, you know, dying of AIDS.
And then a few weeks later, their T cells were back up and they were pronounced cured.
So that kind of convinced me that, well, maybe this is working.
And so I have rewritten my booklet and brought it up to date.
And in the latest issue of 73, the May issue, I have a circuit diagram and the parts list and everything for a very simple, what is called a bioelectrifier, which will generate the voltage necessary for this and do it all electronically.
Beck's unit used a little relay to flip back and forth to change the voltage, and we do it with a couple of transistors instead, or ICs.
So at any rate, I have upgraded the AIDS booklet, as I call it.
But of course, it works for syphilis, gonorrhea, Epstein-Barr, herpes, or just about any other rotten thing that's floating around in the blood.
Presumably, if you were dumb enough to pass the current from one arm to the other, it would go through the heart.
And if you have a pacemaker, it might stop your heart, and that might be considered negative.
So what they're doing now is taking the two arteries that are on either the left or the right wrist.
And if you feel there, you'll feel just on either side, you can feel these two arteries.
And they put a little wire with flannel wrapped around it, tied with silk thread, and soak that in salt water and use a little strap, one of these elastic straps with Velcro to hold it in place to hold those electrodes over the arteries.
And as you turn up the voltage, you can feel it go bump, bump, bump, bump, bump.
And I've been using it.
And what I do is I take an afternoon nap every day for about an hour, and I put this on there and just go to sleep and let it thump away for an hour while I'm sleeping.
Well, what it does is pass this minute electric current through the blood, and as I say, that prevents any of these bad beasties in there from hooking onto the white cells, and they die.
But then the problem is to get anything that's in the lymph glands out into the bloodstream.
And this was the unique thing that Bob Beck came up with, and that is he wound a coil of wire, about 150 turns, on a one-inch spool.
And you can take an old spool from a VCR tape and put a couple boards on it to hold the wire, wind the coil, and put that in series with the light and a flash gun.
And this gives you a very short, very high-voltage zap.
And that coil then generates about a 20,000 Gauss field for a moment, and you put that up near the lymph glands.
But first, you work for two or three weeks clearing the blood of anything that's in it.
And this is the report.
So I'm the reporter here, not a doctor.
And then once you've done that, you want to get this out of the lymph glands, and you put this coil up there by the lymph glands and shoot it a few times.
And you can feel the difference because it makes you a little bit sluggish as these things come out of the lymph glands into the blood.
And then your purifier, or bioelectrifier, whatever you want to call it, takes care of it.
And then you use it on a few more lymph glands.
And you can look in Gray's Anatomy, which is in any library and is available for about 10 or 11 bucks from bookstores to find out where all the lymph glands are.
But Beck reported another side effect to this generator of the electric field.
He used it on his head, and when he gave his talk at Tampa back in January, he had a full head of hair after having male pattern baldness for several years.
Well, you know, we have a terrible time in our whole health business.
Quite a number of the books on my list of books that you're crazy if you haven't read have to do with health.
Because our medical industry is covering up an awful lot of easy, simple, inexpensive cures for things.
And of course, it's a cloudy thing because there is an awful lot of quacks, crooks, and so forth in there also.
And we don't have any way to really figure one from the other other than to do a lot of research and find out.
And that's why when I do find a book that is good and excellent and makes sense and has a reasonably good backup, I put it on my list of books that you really ought to read.
And there's another jack in there that comes out with a couple of silver wires that you put into distilled water with a little bit of salt in it to make your own silver colloids.
And you want to learn about that because that is almost a magical solution that you can make yourself in a few minutes just with a couple batteries and two silver wires.
One of my cold fusion readers called and said that he had, as I mentioned, had tested the cold fusion process on his kitchen table, and it worked so well that he built a unit and he's now heating his greenhouse with it, and he's up in Manitoba, Canada.
I believe we're going to see, and I've talked to representatives of Dr. Patterson, and I believe that there will be a commercial unit on the market within a year which will generate heat for a greenhouse or a small home.
Many years ago, I sat in Wayne's Brooklyn, New York office and talked about special calls.
He said if vanity calls ever came to be, this is ham radio folks, he would change from W to NSD to simply W. Well, the FCC has now announced the opening of the Vanity Call Sign program May 31st.
And he proves this by pointing out that the uh you have a number of places around the world where there are no tides.
You have some places where there's one tide a day, and so forth.
He proves about transmutation because he set up a little experiment, which he describes in his book, where anybody could set up with some carbon rods and a generator for arc welder and some calcium carbide and make their own volcano.
And it'll keep right on going once you turn the voltage off, and you have a heck of a job stopping it.
And then when he got through, they tested what was in the ashes that were left over.
And nothing that they put in to start with had a weight of over 20, you know, an atomic weight of over 20.
When they got through, they had elements all the way up to 83.
And when I read the book about immunization, I said, oh, my gosh, that's what happened to me.
I had no allergies and no asthma and so forth until I got my immunization shots.
And then all of a sudden, I had sinus trouble, ear trouble, and asthma for the rest of my life.
And this fellow in the book, Immunization, points out how that these immunization shots are doing this to millions and millions and millions of people.
Well, we have semi-freedom of religion in this country.
By the way, that was one book that was fascinating, and he just goes into all kinds of things that we've always believed and scientists always believe and says, oh, baloney, don't believe everything that they tell you.
And his other book was called NASA Mooned America.
And in there, he claims that NASA never went to the moon.
And according to the information with the picture, it was taken the day after they arrived.
Or, you know, so many hours after they arrived.
Well, if you calculate where the sun should have been at that time, it should have been at about 12.2 degrees above the horizon.
If you measure the shadow for Aldrin, you find That the sun at that time had to be 26.4 degrees above the horizon.
If you measure the shadow for Armstrong, the Sun had to be at 36.9 degrees above the horizon, and the two shadows cross.
Boy, isn't that weird?
Yes.
But then there's a matter of solar flares and the amount of radiation that you get.
Now, the scientific information that's available says that it would take about six feet of lead to protect one from those solar flares once you get outside the Van Allen belt.
You can use car batteries, and they provide 12 volts, so by the time you have three of those, you've got 36 volts, and you're in pretty good shape.
unidentified
That sounds fascinating.
For what it's worth, this is purely anecdotal, but I had an acquaintance that was working on one of the government research facilities out west, and he had mentioned that he had seen an actual device.
It was about the size of a suitcase.
He said they flipped it open.
It had two probes.
There was no external power source.
It was all inside this suitcase.
It was designed to stick the two probes in the ground into sandy soil, and it generated enough energy to fuse the sand into glass.
So you could have an instant hard stand for some purpose out in a sandy area.
Well, the government is pretty good at keeping secrets at times.
I know that I'm on the inside as far as the Amelia Earhart case is concerned and knew her and knew what her trip was and so forth, and they still kept that secret after 60 years.
Number one, in Seattle, Tacoma, Washington, K-O-M-O.
Number one in Portland, Oregon, KDS.
Number one in Detroit, Michigan, WJR.
Number one in Los Angeles, California, on KABC.
Thank you all.
Listen, we're in a chat room right now.
I'm in a chat room with a whole group of people.
If you want to join us, you're welcome to.
Discussing the show and whatever comes up.
All you do is go on AOL, Marathon Line, check into, actually go to keyword and enter the word Periscope.
P-A-R-A-S-C-O-P-E Periscope.
And when you get inside, you want to go to a chat room called the Grassy Knoll, and you'll find a lot of people in there listening to the program and having a big discussion about it right now.
So come on in.
The water's fine.
Wayne Green is my guest.
The very controversial Wayne Green.
Talking about all kinds of things.
Wayne, you'll be happy to hear this.
Art?
I'm one of the people that has experienced positive results from the electro device.
After Wayne was on the last time, I sent for his information packet.
I then had one of the machines built for me.
It was about $50.
I must admit, I feel better than ever.
I have more energy.
I don't feel sluggish as I used to.
I noticed that my hair is no longer thinning as well.
A cheer for AIDS?
I have no way of knowing.
But I can say that a couple of treatments a day with this device has me feeling like a new person.
And the AIDS booklet, as I say, has been updated with the circuit diagrams, both from Bob Beck and from my readers, and with a complete list of parts and how to make it and where to buy the whole kits and everything like that.
well you could no you're not you're not where you're being you have to go out of the way that at two hundred and seventy four degrees fahrenheit What's that?
You're not working in zero humidity with zero with 274 degrees Fahrenheit.
All right, let me ask you a little bit about a different kind of cancer, skin cancer.
There was a report the other day that because of the thinning ozone and exposure to the sun, skin cancers, particularly the awful melanoma, has just gone up horrendously.
Do you give credence to this theory of the thinning ozone?
There was also a report that men, cancer for men, since World War II, all cancers, Have increased non-smoking-related Wayne by 300% since World War II.
I just caught the part where he was talking about the moon mission, and I had a question concerning debunking it as far as how they explain the picture of it.
Well, I might read the author of the book.
I'd like to.
My question is, how did you explain the picture of the Earth?
Okay, I really didn't want to get into a technical conversation on twin noop on Cooper pairs and so forth because this is something that I've just had to learn recently and I don't think this will be of much interest getting into a technical thing.
I say, for goodness sakes, read the magazine which has articles by the top scientists in the world on this and find out what's going on rather than just going by the negative things that came out as a result of the business contacts.
Yeah, I think that it's a little unfair for that caller to sit out there and say, it ain't so, and I don't want to read about it and confuse myself with any facts.
You use potassium carbonate in water, and it doesn't make an awful lot of difference what your concentration is.
And you have a couple of nickels which you hang into it, put some either solder on or clip leads onto them, but don't have anything but the nickel in the water.
And you pass a current through it.
And if you have a couple of batteries there, 24 to 30 volts or something like that will generate enough current so that you can heat that water.
You put a thermometer in the water and then a thermometer outside so that you can measure the difference in heat.
And you will find after a few hours, maybe a couple of days, it depends on how fast the hydrogen from the liquid goes into the nickel, that heat will start being generated and the temperature of the liquid will go way up.
And then you want to have a little stir in there to stir it.
And that's a simple experiment that you can do on your kitchen table.
As the hydrogen there in their heat loads up, you will find that it begins to generate extra heat.
What happens is that if you use a lithium bath, the hydrogen plus the lithium fuses together and becomes beryllium, and then another hydrogen fuses onto that, making it into boron.
And when you look at the chemical weights of that, you find that when you've made two hydrogens and the lithium together, you have a little extra mass left over, and that is what generates your heat.
Because we have Einstein's formula, E equals NC squared, which means that a little tiny bit of matter makes an awful lot of extra energy.
And one other warning, and that is that the water will continue to get hot, and then if you don't cool that water in some way, it will either boil off or possibly even explode.
One odd thing, on the last time I was on some months ago, the thing that attracted the most reader interest was when you asked me about how you make money.
And we got into a thing about a ham radio wanting a tower, and I said, well, the best way to not have interference is to live on a 200-acre farm.
And I finally gave up and sat down and wrote a little booklet on Making Money, a Beginner's Guide, pointing out how anybody can become a millionaire within seven years, and if they really determined, within five.
I've always had kind of a strange attitude about money.
I'm comfortable now.
I'm not rich, but I'm comfortable.
And it's sort of as though, Wayne, when I get enough money to have the toys I want and my house, and I'm comfortable, and then I sort of don't care whether I have any more or not.
Well, you want to build something a little bit larger than a glass on the table for this.
Right, right.
And the best way is to have some kind of a cell with your metal in it and the electrolyte and just exchange that into whatever you want to radiate the heat from.
Well, if you send me a couple dollars, I'll send you an overview on Cold Fusion, bringing you up to date on where the state of the art is, and that'll tell you how to subscribe, which isn't cheap.
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That'll be great.
I'll do that.
And I've got one more question.
If I made that AIDS and the virus killer, you talked about patents.
Is that legal to make it just as long as I didn't sell it?
I also read a little bit of research that was done with some effect, Wayne, people taking slowly the blood out of the body, heating it to a certain temperature, then cooling it and returning it to the body, and they thought, and had some good results with regard to AIDS.
Yes, there's a book out by Dr. William Douglas on using ultraviolet for that, and that is one of the books on my list of books people are crazy if they don't read.
Another man with a very high IQ, 150 plus, was a guy they're calling the Unibomber.
And I read his manifesto, and if you erase the fact that he's a cold-blooded killer, and you just read the manifesto, there are many parts of it that make some sense.
And the sun shines straight, and you can measure the angle.
It has nothing to do with where it is.
Atmosphere doesn't change the angles that the sun shines.
So if you have two people standing almost side by side, and one has a short shadow, and the other has a long shadow, how do you do that from one radiation, from one light source?
It was something that introduced ozone into the air, ozone and ions, and it takes particulate matter out of the air, and it works very well, thank you.
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Well, I wondered, you know, they talk about ozone damaging the atmosphere and so on.
So I just wondered if Mr. Green had heard of this and if he had an opinion of this.
Well, every report that I've seen says that they work well.
As a matter of fact, I just had a call yesterday from a chap where they were using that as a health aid for someone who had cancer and was in the last stages of cancer.
Interesting item from Reuters News, from Sydney, Australia.
Gorillas and chimpanzees should be reclassified into the same species group as humans because of the closeness of their DNA, according to a team of Australian and New Zealand scientists.
That's a new one.
I've got more, and we'll get to it later.
We're going to do another 30 minutes of phone calls and information with Wildman Green.
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Wildman Green Now we take you back to the night of May 3rd, 1996, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Art Bell's Somewhere in Time All right, back now to Wayne Green, all the way to New Hampshire, where it's no doubt getting late in the morning, and the sun will be up soon.
Well, I've tried to keep up on that, but not to become an expert on it.
But as I understand it, they have brought the temperature up of superconductivity, but certainly not room temperature.
It's been brought up to in the minus, what, 250 or something like that degrees with ceramics.
But we're still waiting for more breakthroughs on that, and that would certainly be welcome, but I'm not sure how that's going to provide energy for the world at inexpensive price.
Yeah, I've been on the road, so I just been listening to the program here, and I haven't had a chance to write anything down, and I've got a lot of questions, but one of the things I want to know is how can I get a transcript of this?
I'm a sightless ham operator, and I'm wondering if it would be possible for you to somehow or another get your 73 magazine recorded for we sightless hams who can't avail ourselves of that.
And then from then on, you can pick and choose my World War II submarine adventures, my travels telling people how they can travel inexpensively all over the world.
I have a book out on how to repair all of the major problems of the U.S. government.
And, oh, gosh, I've got a list of books that you're crazy if you haven't read.
I've got a booklet out on AIDS and so forth.
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What's the name of the book that debunks the moon?
Most of the books, I would say, with one or two exceptions, the books that I recommend that people read are not books that I sell because I'm recommending them because you ought to read them, not because I make any money out of it.
Yes, he had, but that is how the Roswell story was broken.
A fellow that he used to talk to on the radio very often, a good friend of his, went to a Stanton Friedman lecture, and after the lecture, walked up to Stanton and mentioned what Marcel had told him and asked him if he'd like to get in contact with him.
And within a year, the Unsolved Mysteries special was on the air, and the rest is history.
I want to have a simple procedure that Congress could enact, which would make it so that every government bureau would cut itself enthusiastically and cooperatively in half within three years.
I do a lot of research, a lot of reading, and then I say, put it all together and say, okay, here's the best ideas that I have found anywhere in the world on these things.
Okay, well, yes, because that would be the topic for a couple of hours.
There's a matter of the sun's heat.
Cold does not radiate.
You know how a thermos bottle works.
And therefore, we have this sun's heat because they're there on the moon only in the daytime.
And you have to have an enormous cooling system to keep them from boiling.
Number two, the solar flares and the solar wind, which cause our aurora, we're protected by the Van Allen belt.
As soon as you get out of there, you have 1,000 to 1 million times more radiation than the body can stand, and it takes an estimated six feet of lead to protect you from that.
And they didn't have that on any of our trips out there.
There's no, let's see now, there's no mention whatever at any time of these astronauts seeing the stars.
And yet that's the one thing that's going to really jump out at you once you're outside there.
Then there's a matter of the spacesuit pressure.
It takes at least five or six pounds per square inch to keep the body from falling apart.
And yet if you have five or six pounds per square inch over our atmospheric pressure, you have something like a football which doesn't bend.
And those suits should look like Michelin men.
Then you have the matter of navigation where they were able to pin-point navigate over an enormous distance with almost no corrections, which is almost impossible.
Then you have the 1967 when this whole thing first got going and we had 11 astronauts die under strange circumstances all in one year.
Some of them reputed to be causing trouble and maybe blowing the whistle on this.
So the book goes through all of these things in great detail.
And that's why when we have this SETI, the SETI project of trying to detect radio signals from other solar systems, I think that's a waste of time and money because I believe that they're already here and in contact with us.
And I think that radio transmission is something that we will use for 100 years or so and then go on to something much better and faster.