Marshall Barnes, a three-year investigator of the Philadelphia Experiment, argues it occurred in 1943, citing eyewitnesses like Carlos Allende—Einstein’s student—and sailor Silverman—both deceased or untraceable. Naval records and German battleship photos allegedly support its feasibility, though Barnes admits some may be altered. He plans small-scale replications using electromagnetic fields, despite Navy claims of impossibility, linking it to 1980s radar cloaking techniques. Skeptics dismiss witnesses through character attacks, but Barnes insists the experiment’s optical invisibility, not teleportation, remains scientifically plausible, challenging official denials with emerging quantum theories and mainstream science parallels. [Automatically generated summary]
And we've got Marshall Barnes, a man who has been investigating the Philadelphia experiment for three years.
He will address Columbus State Community College on this coming up May 2nd at 2.45 in the afternoon.
We've got him just ahead of that telling you what he's going to tell them.
And he thinks the experiment did occur.
And so if you have questions, we're about to go to the phones here.
And it's going to be very interesting.
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Back to Ohio now and Marshall Barnes, who's been looking into the Philadelphia experiment for three years solid.
Marshall, there's facts.
A quick comment from you, and then I'd like to go to the phones if we can.
Hi, Art.
I personally knew Carlos Aline, A-L-E-N-E, who's involved in the Philadelphia experiment.
He studied with Einstein in preparation for the experiment.
In fact, he showed me photos of him and Einstein together.
His accounts of what happened during the experiment were incredible.
Please ask your guest about Carlos.
I wish I had more time to go into more detail.
Do you know anything about that?
unidentified
Well, that's now, he says, well, how do you spell the last name of this guy?
The guy, that sounds awfully suspicious, is like Carlos Allen.
It was the guy who started the whole thing, but that guy never worked with Einstein.
So if this fact that you received is correct and it's not some kind of goof up with the name, then, you know, I'd love to find out more about this gentleman because I don't know anything about him.
could you possibly tap into another planet's magnetic field and travel at the speed?
No, I don't believe that at all.
Absolutely not.
In fact, I don't believe in the space warping thing where you generate a gravitational field strong enough to basically bend space-time so that kind of the warped sheet of paper effect.
Because what happens to all the other planets and all the other things that are in between points B and C or whatever?
And rumor over here is that they were making nuclear torpedoes, which they tested in Port Chicago.
Do you know anything about that?
unidentified
No, the closest thing to that that I've heard is that there was some kind of a nuclear accident that happened in Philadelphia, but that happened after the Philadelphia storm explicitly happened.
But the other thing I want to mention is the fact that Einstein, he may have visited the base of Cheerio, but his real base of operation was Princeton.
That's where he, and he would go from that area over to Philadelphia.
But he may have also been where you are, too.
I don't know.
He's funny he used to say that because he used to teach at Caltech, which is right down the street.
Right.
Well, his actual base of operations was Princeton.
He didn't go to Caltech.
I mean, like I said, because I can see him going back and forth, but I do know that his actual base of operations was in Princeton.
Before the news, I said, give me, if you can, your best evidence that this experiment did occur.
unidentified
Well, my best evidence is that it was possible, not that it actually occurred.
I can't prove conclusively that it happened, but I can prove that the opposite research is lying when they say this stuff is only possible.
You know, experiments of this kind are only possible in their own science fiction, because I've got all the evidence to back up how you would go about doing the experiment.
The only thing we've got to figure out is the exact nature of, you know, the voltages and the current density and all that kind of stuff with electromagnetic fields and everything.
Would you like an opportunity to try and duplicate it?
unidentified
Sure, absolutely.
That and a few other things, as a matter of fact.
In fact, I know of a couple of people where, you know, after I get a few other things out of the way, we're talking about trying to figure out a way to actually do it for real.
Not on a large scale, like a naval destroyer, but on a small scale, yeah, absolutely.
Now, knowing that, all it is creating is an illusion.
Would it still create a depression in the water?
Would it still be visible as an anomaly in the horizon?
unidentified
Yeah, okay.
Now, the depression in the water, yes.
In fact, all the witness accounts say that you could still see the outline of where the boat was in the water, but you couldn't see the boat.
And in terms of what you were talking about, like, you know, it disappeared, but it was still really there, that's what the obstacle invisibility thing was about.
The teleportation aspect of it, which has been, some people say it was a mistake, some people say it was done on purpose.
That's a whole other part of the story where that's more extreme, where that something happened and the ship actually teleported.
In other words, it was no longer in the water at all, and it went to some other location, and then it came back again.
That's another part of the story.
But the initial invisibility factor, yeah, it was still in the water.
You could see the depression in the water, but you couldn't see the boat.
What is the best eyewitness testimony regarding Philadelphia?
unidentified
Well, that's where things get really goofy, so to speak.
And that's what the skeptics like to latch on to.
The skeptics, all the skeptics have done has basically attacked the witnesses and indulged in character assassination.
And basically, my whole thing, though, is that, you know, we're talking about a time in history where you didn't have Star Trek, you didn't have Star Wars, you didn't have all the kinds of sci-fi things that we have seen.
I mean, did you see a time with Carlos Allende, who was the main primary witness?
He was only the main one, at least unless you want to include Al Belick, you know.
But Carlos Allende was the main one, but William Moore says that there was another field of gift individuals like this guy by the name of Silverman, who was actually a sailor on the boat.
There was the guy who he gave the pseudonym to of Reinhardt, Dr. Reinhardt, who supposedly actually was one of the scientists that worked on part of the experiment.
They have all these kind of people, which either impossible to track down or they're already dead.
For example, Carlos Allende, he died a couple years ago.
But the thing about it is, Carlos Allende never changed his story.
Carlos Allende never tried to really make any money off his story.
He never did a movie of the week.
He never did a book.
He never did lecture tours.
He didn't capitalize on any way.
He was a recluse most of the time.
And a lot of times he talked about it, he was afraid of what the Navy might do to him.
So you've got a guy who's never seen any of the kind of things that we've seen in terms of optical thefts.
And yet he describes accurately what kind of visual effects would happen if you try to do this experiment.
To me, that's incredible.
I mean, what are the odds that if he was a hoax, that he's going to make this stuff up and accurately describe exactly what would have happened if it would have worked?
Well, it came up with respect to real research and real aircraft that exist now.
unidentified
Right, and that's what I'm talking about.
When I was growing up, my father was a test pilot, and he worked on a lot of black projects, which I've only found out in later years.
One time around 1973, we were on an Air Force base where there are a lot of those kind of projects going on even now.
And we were walking at night to the store, and we saw bright lights in the sky, a pattern of blue lights, and they seemed to hover for a while and then took off instantaneously out of sight.
And as soon as we got to the store, my father used the payphone to place a call to report that sighting.
And I know that if it had been any one of the black projects that were going on at that time in that area, that that wouldn't have happened.
And that has always made me somewhat of a believer, although I'm skeptical about a lot of the reports.
The magnetic fields, the rotating RF fields, all of that made sense to me.
He even talked about what frequency, VHF frequency, the fields were operating at.
Does that make sense?
unidentified
Yeah.
Even some of the stranger parts of this story make sense because there's all this background information.
If anyone reads the Montauk Project books, particularly the second one, Adventures and Synchronicity, there's all this weird background stuff that's connected to the Montauk Project and the base and the land and all this other kind of stuff that seems to leave creatives that idea that there was something going on.
I know the actual nature of the Montauk Project, that makes total complete sense.
Where I run into problems in terms of being able to back anything up about it is basically talking about aliens being involved and all that kind of stuff.
Of course, because you're not going to be able to find any kind of evidence to back that up.
But in terms of the concepts that they were trying to deal with, then I see those concepts popping up all the time, like I mentioned before, in some of the even more mainstream scientific magazines like Discovery Magazine or Scientific American.
I just wanted to say that when I was in boot camp at Fort Knox, Kentucky, back in 1976, I seen something that was like a light that ran through the sky in a triangle pattern, very fast, and we come to an abrupt stop.
I'm sure some of the optical cloaking that you talked about earlier, if somebody were to observe it, to them, it would be, as you said, a ghost ship or magic.
It would appear as magic.
unidentified
Well, actually, I'll tell you a little quick, funny story about that.
When we first started messing around with this invisibility stuff, we actually started to, when we would see things start to look transparent that we knew were there and we knew were solid, we actually started to feel like, you know, get a sick feeling in our stomach, you know?
He believes it occurred and is in the business of separating the myth of it from what he considers to be the reality.
He will, as a matter of fact, give an address on this to Columbus State Community College on the 2nd of May.
He will say the U.S. Office of Naval Research has been covering all this up for many, many years.
We'll be right back.
Hi, this is Art Bell.
I sure wish I knew what I could tell you about Coast to Coast AM that would cause you to listen.
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Hi, this is Art Bell.
Coming up this week on Dreamland, Judy Pope Zion.
Don't want to miss it.
She's author of Last Waltz of the Tyrants and UFOs and the Nature of Reality.
Sounds like hardcore Dreamland stuff, doesn't it?
Well, we've always told you it won't fit in a box.
And if it won't, it'll be on Dreamland right here this week.
unidentified
Dreamland Well, hello there.
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My guest is Marshall Farnes, subject to the Philadelphia Experiment.
Hello, Art.
Please ask Marshall the following question.
There was a supposedly prominent investigator into the Philadelphia Experiment, maybe five or ten years after the experiment, who arranged an appointment with a reporter to release evidence regarding it.
When the reporter arrived, he found the investigator dead for no apparent reasons, no evidence around him.
Did Marshall ever come across this incident or hear about it?
unidentified
No.
Albeit, it sounds the original researcher into the Philadelphia Square was a gentleman by the name of M.K. Jessup.
And Jessup was actually contacted by the Office of Naval Research, the two officers that worked with them that got the Office of Naval Research Connection going in the first place.
And they were asking him about this copy of his supposed Baby Speed that had these crazy annotations in it.
And it was Jessup who realized it came from Carlos Allende, being the same guy who was talking about the boat disappearance.
So I don't know if the fact that you've got was in reference to that, but that's the only thing I know about a gentleman who ended up dying, because he did die of an apparent suicide.
MK Jessup did, although some people believe he was murdered.
Yes, I guess I take exception to the fact that perhaps that ship moved from the space where it was at, because if it did, how could it end up back in the same space as when your previous callers identified?
The fact is, is there is no absolute space in the universe.
unidentified
It's the same way if you're playing ping pong on a train, the ball bounces back and forth on the table.
If you're standing off to the side of the train, the ping pong ball is going to move 40 feet in a matter of seconds or so if you were able to look at it.
Now, how would one do the math to come back to the very same virtual space that one occupied previously if you have changed from that space?
If you asked me something like that to occur as a result of an EMF rotating whatever you described it, however you described it, how could you get back into the same place?
Well, I mean, if you want to be picky about it, I mean, I didn't say it was the exact same spot.
You know, and there's been some discussion.
For example, there's a guy from Australia, not Sam Deo, but I can't remember the guy's name right off the top of my head, but he talked about that, how you could calculate certain things having to do with the arc of the Earth and all this kind of stuff.
There's a certain kind of geometry that he talked about that would have been involved that would enable something like that to take place.
As far as I know, at least that's what I was told when I reviewed the material that that's where it was going.
But I saw a lot of the photographs, reports, let's see, all the medical information on the survivors of the experiment.
And it was pretty interesting reading.
One of the things that they mentioned in there that was created by this electromagnetic field that they generated was that the atomic frequency was changed in the ship and the personnel on the ship.
And that when they started to shut everything down, when they kind of phased back in or whatever you want to call it, that that's when some of the crew members actually meshed with the metal of the ship.
You've obviously pursued as far as you can trying to get whatever official writings there are on this.
What do you meet with?
Do you meet with a dead silence, blacked out papers, no response at all?
unidentified
I didn't give it to the government at all, period.
What I did was I did exactly the opposite.
What I did was I tried to find out the scientific stuff about it.
Did it scientifically make any kind of sense?
And I also did, I checked naval history and like, you know, whether the ship existed and all that kind of stuff.
But I never tried to go to the government itself because of the simple fact that, hey, I can't believe anything they tell me because they're going to lie about it.
I mean, that's why I think, I don't try to laugh at Stanton Freeman and people like that that send in these Freedom of Information Act requests.
So they get back these papers, right?
And they have all these major sections blacked out.
But there is no verification.
There's no guarantee that even the stuff that isn't blacked out is real.
I've always thought they're damn well, Freedom of Information Act or not, if it's really secret, you're not going to get anything back on it, period.
unidentified
Exactly.
And that's why, for example, I'll check naval records.
Like, for example, there was a guy that Jacques Louis says he has as this witness, okay?
And I'm not going to go into all the detail about, but I checked out that guy's whole story.
And when I checked out his story, I was looking at naval records that were published, that were already in libraries, that weren't, you know, in other words, they were already released, and there was a situation where the government could fudge something after the fact.
You know what I'm saying?
Yes.
And so those are the kind of things I looked at.
Like the stuff I found, the photographs of the German battleships and all that kind of stuff.
You know, those are the kind of things I looked at in terms of records and histories and whatnot.
I was in the Navy for some time, and I had a lot of friends that were in the intelligence community in the Navy and spent a lot of time on aircraft carriers.
And I had a lot of them tell me that there was ways of pumping RF through the ship.
I don't know, they had a maze of tubes that were kind of square gray tubes on the ship that they said could actually change the configuration of the ship as it would appear on radar.
Not, you know, not we didn't disappear or anything like that, of course.
But they said that they had ways that they could pump RF through the ship to where it would change the configuration, where it would end up looking like four or five different boats, or it would look like a trawler or a cargo ship.
Now, see, that is an outgrowth of what allegedly they were trying to do at the Troll Velvet experiment is the radar stuff.
Because they were going for both optical and radar invisibility, and because radar was big in World War II, I mean, that's where all the developments in radar really started to take off.
And we ended up with some of the best radar stuff because we had the British help us out, and they're the ones that made the most advances on radar, at least initially.
The German joined the game, too, but the British beat them out.
I mean, they were just better at it.
But what you're describing is an outgrowth of what the Philadelphia experiment was trying to do, one part of it at least.
Right, and then they do optical stuff, too, like they had a couple cranes they kept on the boats.
They'd move out in the middle of the deck.
So if it's all optically, it appeared as though it had cranes on the deck, like a cargo ship or something like that from an optical point of view.
Right, and then the Germans used to do similar kind of things where they would take, they actually had phony smokestacks that they would burn oil in so that it would make it like a destroyer look like it was some other kind of a ship.
So, oh yeah, I mean, the whole camouflage and like, you know, fooling people about what you really are thing, I mean, that's been around.
And that's why that Philadelphia experiment as an optical thing was the next logical step.
They already done everything else you could think of.
I mean, I think you lay out a very good case that they had proprietary interest in taking this as far as they could take it.
And if they didn't take it this far, then they were being neglectful.
That's wrong.
So they had to have.
So I agree with you.
I'm sure they're lying about it.
unidentified
Well, here's the other thing about it, Art.
Guess what?
Okay, the next phase in World War II was, you know, we're going to be fighting the Japanese in the Pacific, right?
Now, the Japanese didn't have radar.
They only had was optical stuff.
So if we could make our ships invisible, they couldn't hit us at all.
They wouldn't even have to worry about radar.
I mean, that would have taken out the opportunity of karamikazes and the whole nine yards.
In fact, I got that from Lieutenant Commander Rain, who's a public affairs officer for the Navy, a guy who doesn't believe in the Philadelphia experiment, but basically backed up everything I was thinking because he told me histories that made sense before I figured what was going on.
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Back now to my guest, Marshall Barnes.
Marshall, guess who I've got online?
I've got the fellow who sent the fax.
You're in Colorado, is that correct?
That's correct.
All right, and you actually had a typo in your facts.
Yes.
And it was not Eleene, as is in here, but rather was.
He actually stuck his arm into the force steel that surrounded the ship that was involved.
And, I mean, there's just real incredible stuff.
And about some of the people meshing with the metal of the ship, you know, he confirmed that too.
And that a lot of the people that were involved kind of disappeared or were institutionalized or whatever, kind of never to be seen or heard from again.
All right.
A lot of that should be traceable in records.
In other words, people rarely disappear, and if they do, usually family members and other people try to find them, and there's a big stink.
Shouldn't there have been a lot of that, Marshall?
unidentified
Yeah, the main thing I'm going to have to try to do is see what records I can find.
Because the problem with records like that, particularly for the Top Secret Project, is they can be destroyed.
They can be lost.
I mean, look what happened with Roswell, for example.
Also, it looks like the crew that might have been involved with the experiment was a skeleton screw, which means they weren't really assigned to the boat.
They weren't on the boat when it was commissioned.
So that's going to be really nearly impossible to try to track down, although I do plan on trying to do that.
Well, I think that the course of investigation you've taken is a good one.
It's approached it from a different angle, as you say, instead of trying to go after the government, get them to admit what they're not going to admit, take a different tact.
And I think that's a good idea.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Marshall Barnes.
Yeah, it supposedly still exists, and the Greeks still have it, although, as it seems to me, I've heard a rumor that now the U.S. has got it back or something.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Marshall Barnes.
Hello, Art.
How are you?
Fine.
Yes, Marshall, I have two quick questions for you and a comment.
Number one, what magnetic resonance field are you using?
unidentified
Well, okay, now I'm working with that kind of material.
I was only testing what effects refraction would have on light and whether or not the refractive light would cause optical mirages like Google describing the experiment, and it does.
I have done that.
But I didn't deal with electromagnetic field or anything.
Which art creates an implosion inside the wave, which would generate the field.
However, you can't quote the EMF.
There is no way.
unidentified
Oh, no, you're not trying to quote the EMF anyway.
In fact, EMF is supposed to be, it's causing this disruption of the air and the water molecules in the area.
And in saltwater, It's feeding all this material into the field, which adds to the mirage.
Basically, it's a lens.
You're creating a weird lens around the boat that's going to give you that kind of right, the right kind of refraction of light that causes the invisibility effect.
I mean, putting it in saltwater was just like, I mean, it was perfect because you will feed into the effect that you want is right all around the boat.
So, all in all, you're convinced all of this is real, and you're going to lay out all this evidence at Columbus State Community College.
unidentified
Yeah, not only that, I even have a documentary.
It's called the Quantum Conspiracy from the Philadelphia Experiments.
It's a videotape.
It's got the video footage of our experiments of light on it.
It goes into the background of the Montauk project and all this other stuff that's associated with it and what it all means for what's going on right now and what's going to happen in the future.
And I've also got a book about finishing up now, which should be, I've got a couple publishers interested in it.
We haven't locked the deal done on that yet, but it will be also coming out as an audio book.
And it's called The Case for the Philadelphia Experiment.
He said, expect a lot of harsh criticism about this and that and this and that.
And I said, well, I don't have any problem with it because my whole point is that what we're discussing, according to the Office of Naval Research, is impossible.
And it's not impossible.
And that's all I have down as evidence.
The only thing I don't have are the actual, like, you know, the equations about the strength of the field at this angle and all that kind of stuff.