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May 8, 1996 - Art Bell

02:46:38

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Hector Armstrong - Chupacabra - Open Lines

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	So, I'm going to go ahead and get started. So, I'm going to go ahead and get started. So, I'm going to go ahead and get
	started.
	So, I'm going to go ahead and get started.
	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from May 8th, 1996.
	From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and good morning across all these many time zones, from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands, all the way east across this great land, to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, south into South America, north to the pole worldwide on the Internet, This is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Well, well, well, we're gonna get in lots of trouble tonight, I suppose.
	I've got a lot of neat guests coming up, and I just have a surprise guest for you tonight.
	Subject, the Chupacabra.
	And I've got a million faxes and emails here.
	Dear Art, we saw a report about the Goat Sucker, or Chupacabra, on our local NBC Channel 4 News today out of Los Angeles.
	The news anchors, Ken and Barbie, did not seem amused.
	Looks like some fairly serious stuff.
	See you on the radio.
	Regards, Bill.
	All right, here we go again.
	Right now, 620 p.m., CBS affiliate, Channel 2.
	There is a long report about the chupacabras, saying that there have been accounts all over the outskirts of Los Angeles now, where dead animals like chickens and rabbits have been showing up by the dozens with two puncture marks in various parts of their bodies.
	No blood on the ground.
	In fact, no blood.
	No signs of struggle.
	My skin is crawling.
	This is getting a little too close to home.
	That's from an archaeologist in Los Angeles.
	Or, Art just got done watching the 6 o'clock news on Channel 2's CBS.
	Did a long-term segment on Chupacabra or the Goat Sucker.
	They showed dead goats, chickens, other various animals.
	This story from Mexico City.
	Reuters, a giant bat-like creature is terrorizing a village in a northern Mexican state where goats are found dead daily.
	With their blood sucked dry, poor farmers from a village there have formed nighttime vigilante squads to track down the flying beast that has been dubbed the Goat Sucker.
	We are telling people to keep the women and children locked up and inside at night.
	This is real.
	There's something out there.
	It may be very old.
	It may be very new.
	I really couldn't tell you, but I can just tell you that it certainly is out there.
	So, coming up in just a couple of moments, a few moments, I've got Hector, or Tito as you wish, Armstrong, who is from Puerto Rico.
	He just happens to be the guy who operates the Chupacabra web page on the Internet.
	Also happens to be Studying this whole thing is at Princeton University in New Jersey, and is as much of an expert as you're going to find these days on chupacabra, which is some kind of horrible new animal.
	Here, somehow, unimaginably, either something new, something from somebody's lab, something created, Or something that has come through the veils, the openings to elsewhere.
	We don't know.
	But we're going to talk about it, and by the way, that is the very topic that is going to be discussed on America Online's Periscope, in their Periscope area.
	If you'd like to join in on the discussion, Here's how you do it.
	You get on America Online quick as you can because it will fill quickly.
	As a matter of fact, I better get on quickly or there won't be room for me.
	And then you go to Keyword on AOL.
	Just click on Keyword and enter the word Periscope.
	P-A-R-E-S-C-O-P-E.
	Periscope.
	And then the chat area called the Grassy Knoll.
	Grassy Knoll.
	What a name for a chat area, huh?
	Yesterday, by the way, resulted in the first cloning of that chat room.
	It was so many people in there, it automatically cloned itself.
	So, I would hurry and get in there.
	The discussion will be, no doubt, about Chupacabra.
	This creature that is now all over our news.
	First in Puerto Rico, then Mexico, Then South America, Central America, Mexico, and now, Chupacabra looks as though it has landed right here in the good old USA.
	So, in just a moment, we're going to go all the way to Princeton University, and we're going to talk to Hector Armstrong, who is from Puerto Rico and knows about the Chupacabra.
	And by the way, if you want to go up to my webpage, there is a link To Hector's Chupacabra page, and you can read all about the Chupacabra and see a drawing of it.
	ugly, ugly sucker that it is.
	To Princeton University in New Jersey we go, and New Jersey we go.
	And to Hector or Tito Armstrong.
	Hector, welcome to the program.
	Thank you very much, Art.
	How are you?
	Just fine.
	What would you prefer to be called?
	Hector or Tito?
	Actually, I'll go by my nickname, which is Tito.
	Tito.
	All right, Tito.
	Welcome to the program.
	You are from Puerto Rico, right?
	Yes, that's correct.
	How long have you been up here going to school?
	Basically, I'm a class of 1996, which means that I was here Since 1990, basically.
	I see.
	Quite a while then.
	Yeah, definitely.
	Four years in the U.S.
	All right.
	What, if I might ask, I guess because of where you're from, but what got you interested in chupacabra?
	Well, some friends of mine went home for break last year in October, and I hadn't been home for a long time.
	And they told me that the new thing in Puerto Rico was the Chupacabra.
	It's something that everybody was talking about.
	It was something that was on the news.
	It was like the latest thing in Puerto Rico.
	So that basically got me informed about it.
	I had not heard about it before.
	And it got me very interested in the subject because everyone was talking about it basically.
	All right, there are a lot of people in my audience that don't have computers, Hector, and they can't go to your homepage.
	So let's begin this way.
	What the hell is this thing, and what does it look like?
	Can you describe it as best you can without being able to show people a picture?
	If you just close your eyes and describe it, what does this creature look like?
	Okay, well, according to most eyewitness accounts, or most reports, This creature supposedly has the shape of a small kangaroo, but it's sort of reptilian in nature with two large red eyes, and so basically it would look like a cross between a small kangaroo and a small dinosaur.
	That's, I think, the best way to describe it, and it has allegedly I was going to ask you about that.
	It looks scaly on its back.
	Exactly, yes.
	Um, and then, it basically looks very, like, typically gray alien, um, in nature, um, with
	regards to its head, and then the body then looks sort of like kangaroo-ish with a tail
	at the end.
	Can this thing fly?
	Um, allegedly it can.
	I mean, there have been some reports that it can fly.
	But, I mean, obviously, due to the nature of this, that hasn't been confirmed in any way yet.
	Right.
	All right.
	It began, I guess, in Puerto Rico, or at least the first reports were there.
	Then I began to hear reports about South America.
	Then I started to hear reports about Mexico.
	And in the last couple days, suddenly Los Angeles, even Oregon, the U.S.
	West Coast.
	How can this thing be spreading so quickly?
	I think the most logical thing to assume is that this sort of thing has been going on already for a while, and it's only because of the exposure of the Chupacabra, or the name Chupacabra, in Puerto Rico that people started to link the name to these sort of happenings that have been going on for a while.
	Well, now wait a minute.
	I'm not sure about that, Hector, or Tito, I'm sorry, we'll call you Tito.
	Tito, because I watch the news very carefully for things like this and we have not been getting reports other than an occasional cattle mutilation of chickens and goats with the blood drained from their bodies and two marks on the outside and four marks on the inside.
	We've not been getting those reports.
	This is fairly recent.
	Okay, well then that means that definitely something stranger is It's going on.
	I mean, my explanation would sound logical, but I guess that if we haven't been hearing about stuff like that, then this is even more mysterious than we previously had thought.
	Right.
	Which is very interesting, indeed.
	It is, and it seems to be spreading quickly.
	If you had to make a guess, or maybe I'd ask you, Tito, what is the best guess about where this thing comes from?
	My best guess?
	That's very hard to say.
	People have been sending me theories ever since I put the webpage on, and they range from very out there to very mainstream explanations.
	I would hesitate to hazard a guess, but basically the consensus, if there is any, seems to be that this is something that is not Native to the Earth.
	I mean, however strange that sounds.
	I think, regarding everything that's been going on, that's our best bet.
	And then, if we go from there, then... I mean, that we go from there, but this is definitely something that hasn't been seen before.
	And everything about it, even its attacks, the way it does this, Samples that have been collected of the creature itself point to something that hasn't been seen, that is not native to the earth.
	Not native to the earth.
	Which, I mean, by that I mean that, for example, the chemical composition of blood samples taken have been, have not been able to be classified in any way.
	And even the way that this creature attacks animals hasn't been seen before.
	So that's basically what I mean by this.
	It is something totally new.
	Well, the theories I get, Tito, are that it may have come through a veil, through an opening from another dimension.
	It may be something new.
	Maybe it's something from one of our labs.
	You know, we're doing a lot of genetic tampering about these days.
	So, you think, though, that it comes from off-world?
	Well, I mean, basically, one of the major theories is, of course, related to the alien theory, especially alien cross-breeding experiments.
	That's a pretty popular theory currently.
	And it posits that this creature was created and then somehow either let loose or some other thing on In Puerto Rico and elsewhere.
	I mean, and then this creature has become a native species to the earth then.
	Do you think it began in Puerto Rico?
	Um, I'm, I'm really not so sure.
	I mean, I think, I mean, due to the, like, like the big, I mean, the, um, the, uh, very, like the very big exposure it got in Puerto Rico and the, uh, the many animals that were, that were found.
	I'd have to hazard a guess that at least this type of creature, this type of chupacabra did start in Puerto Rico.
	Alright, well what seemed to begin as a taste for chicken and goats, recently seems to have turned to a taste for humans.
	There's reports now of human beings being attacked.
	And if one assumes that this creature is a species, and it exhibits normal species characteristics, which means that it breeds, or that there's more than one, then I guess it would be inevitable for it to have more and more contact with human beings, and interaction or altercation is inevitable then.
	But I don't think that necessarily means that the chupacabra is starting to attack humans per se.
	But then again, I mean, I would be on my guard just in case.
	Well, I wouldn't want to meet one.
	Definitely.
	Another theory that some people have forwarded, there's a story running today about how many thousands of people in the U.S.
	are dying because of pollution.
	And there have been a million science fiction movies done about creepy, crawly things that come out of swamps, which, by the way, you've got quite a few of down there in Puerto Rico, I guess.
	Could it be some reaction to toxicity released by man?
	Could that have caused, do you suppose, some kind of mutation?
	That is possible.
	I mean, however, that would mean that the mutation would have happened over a while, because mutations don't usually happen like overnight.
	Well, unless they've got help.
	Exactly.
	It's always a possibility.
	I mean, it does happen in nature.
	This is a fact.
	Okay, well, what can you tell me about what happened in Puerto Rico?
	It's all been very sketchy.
	A gal who's on my Dreamland show, Linda Howe, has gone to Puerto Rico and looked for this creature.
	Now, I don't think I would do that.
	I don't want to hunt up this creature and hope it doesn't hunt me up.
	But what has it done in Puerto Rico?
	What is documented?
	Well, basically there have been documented cases of basically animals being found drained of their blood in Puerto Rico, probably thousands of animals over the past year.
	Thousands?
	Yeah, probably the low thousands.
	There hasn't been an official count because the government doesn't really take this very seriously.
	They're basically keeping their distance, and it's basically been the local people who have taken it upon themselves to basically either be on their guard or try to look for this thing.
	And they have organized a lot of searches for it, and they've come up with nothing so far.
	If they should find this thing, Hector, would you think they should try and tranquilize it, if that's possible?
	Or put a bullet through its little Brain or, you know, what would you see done with it?
	Personally, I mean, I would definitely not, I mean, I would definitely study it because due to what it does and what it is, I think it presents a very interesting, it's a very interesting chance to learn something new.
	I mean, that's putting it mildly.
	This is something that is new and should be studied.
	If it poses a threat, then I guess people will deal with that when the time comes.
	But I mean, since it's only been attacking animals, I don't think it justifies annihilating it for now.
	Yeah, okay.
	Look, sucking blood, or sucking all the blood from a victim, is a either bat or vampire-like thing.
	Could this be a variation of a bat?
	There are blood-sucking bats, right?
	Yes, it's totally possible.
	And due to the fact that a lot of people have reported that this thing flies, then that gives credence to that hypothesis.
	However, I mean, the way that vampire bats work, I mean, since they're so small, then they only suck out very little blood out of their victims.
	They definitely don't drain them dry.
	That's a good point.
	And especially since there's only been observed maybe two puncture marks in most of the victims, most of the animal victims, then that either means that if it is a bat, it's a very big one, and it's something totally new.
	Which may exhibit the characteristics of a bat, but couldn't be called a bat per se.
	But that definitely enters into the whole, you know... How big do you think this creature is?
	People have said that this creature is about maybe four feet tall, maybe smaller.
	That's basically been the consensus out of the many people who have seen it face to face.
	If you, with all your interest in Chupacabra, If you had an opportunity to go home to Puerto Rico, or even here in the States, and come face-to-face with one, would you do it?
	Yeah, I think I would do it.
	You would, huh?
	Yeah, it sounds like something that I would like to do.
	If there had been reports of The Chupacabra or a Chupacabra-like creature attacking humans that I definitely not consider it.
	But I'll tell you one thing, I wouldn't be alone.
	And I'll tell you another thing, I wouldn't be totally without any sort of any means of protection.
	Are you a religious person, Tito?
	Um, not, not really.
	Okay.
	There are many religious people who would say this is a manifestation of the devil on earth.
	And certainly some of what it does is pretty devilish.
	I would guess.
	Put it mildly.
	All right, what I would like you to do is hold on.
	We're going to take a break here at the bottom of the hour.
	You're listening to Tito Armstrong, who runs the Chupacabra homepage on the Internet and is at Princeton University in New Jersey.
	And we'll get back to him and soon your calls and questions about this brand new creature.
	Something new on our Earth.
	From where?
	that was over the speculation that will be right back on the next episode of the show.
	Thank you.
	Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 8th, 1996.
	Top of the morning, everybody.
	Good to be here.
	It's gonna be quite an evening.
	We've got Tito Armstrong from Princeton University in New Jersey.
	He runs the Chupacabra homepage.
	And that's what we're talking about.
	It began in Puerto Rico, but recent reports indicate, guess what?
	It's here now!
	So we'll talk more about that in just a moment.
	Also, I want to remind you, there is a chat going on, if you are a computer person.
	Underway right now on America Online in a place called the Periscope Area.
	Area, really.
	You go and just hit keyword Periscope.
	P-A-R-A-S-C-O-P-E.
	Periscope.
	Type that in for a keyword.
	And then go to the Grassy Knoll chat room.
	you'll find me in there right now and a lot of other people talking about Chupacabra.
	Now, it's back to Princeton University in New Jersey and Tito Armstrong who runs the
	the Chupacabra homepage.
	And Tito, are you there?
	Yes, I am.
	All right.
	One of the people on the chat room that I'm in right now, Tito, wanted me to tell you, and I should not have forgotten this, there have been Ongoing UFO reports in and around Mexico City for about the last year, Tito, and this is really serious.
	I mean, with hundreds of thousands of people seeing these craft almost now so frequently to the point where they take it in stride in Mexico City.
	Do you think there might be some kind of relationship between all this UFO activity, and you have a fair amount down in Puerto Rico, too, and the appearance of Chupacabra?
	I mean, one would think, just because of the sheer volume of sightings, that there has to be a link.
	So, I mean, my best guess, or my only guess, would be that, yeah, there has to be a link.
	But, I mean, that begets the question, exactly what is this link?
	Because we only have that evidence of sightings and that the Chupacabra exists and is on the rampage.
	We don't have anything else yet, so I would hesitate to... I don't suppose we know a thing about chupacabra's sexual habits, do we?
	Um, nope.
	Just that there has to be more than one if it is indeed a real creature.
	That's basically... And then, if there is more than one, then that means that it's... I mean, it exhibits normal... I mean, what you could call animal characteristics, in that it mates and it reproduces.
	I can't think that a lot of us would like a lot of these around.
	I mean, first of all, four feet.
	I mean, you can deal with a bat, the stories of bats that suck blood, and that's one thing.
	But when you start talking about something four feet tall, it's going to have a big appetite.
	Exactly.
	And it's, I mean, the one concrete, true fact of this whole thing is that it's, I mean, whatever it is, it's hurting people economically.
	So, I mean, and the way things work in this country and elsewhere, that basically is reason enough to get rid of these things.
	I mean, if that's good or bad, I don't know.
	I don't know either.
	I mean, wolves, you remember wolves?
	They hurt farmers economically and would kill farm animals.
	Yes.
	And they thought at first they should be eradicated from the face of the earth because they were killing farm animals.
	But now they're taking wolves back into Yellowstone and trying to repopulate, to the astonishment of some farmers out there, trying to repopulate Yellowstone with grey wolves.
	So I wonder, in this modern day and age of politically correct everything, if chupacabra might not be listed as an endangered species.
	Who's to say?
	I mean, if a chupacabra exhibits the characteristics that people say it does, then I guess keeping it under control would be nearly impossible, if that were true.
	And that makes it a lot difficult for it to follow the example of the wolf.
	But then again, I mean, it is way too early to speculate on that.
	You would rather see it studied, I take it, than eradicated.
	At least, well, yes, at first.
	I think it would sound stupid for me to say, yeah, we should eradicate this, I mean, without getting as much insight as we can as to what it is and what does it do and why does it do what it do.
	So, I mean, I definitely take the line that this thing should be studied.
	This phenomenon should be studied.
	Tito, where are you from in Puerto Rico?
	I'm from a city called Ponce, which is on the south coast of Puerto Rico.
	Where has the action, when it began in Puerto Rico, did it begin at one part of the island, or did it sort of spread everywhere?
	I'm not sure.
	The only thing that I can say is that it started in rural areas, possibly to the north-northwest of the island.
	But it definitely was not limited to that area.
	It either spread or was there already.
	So this is definitely not something that was localized in Puerto Rico, even though it's a very small island.
	Alright, look, we've got a link on our webpage over to your webpage.
	So people can very easily jump over there.
	Let me ask you this.
	What's on your homepage that people can see?
	I have various I have articles from many magazines and some newspapers that detail the whole Chupacabra phenomenon from the beginning, from when it became very prevalent in the news.
	I have an article, for example, from a magazine called Strange Magazine, and I have an article from various other internet resources that pretty much sum up what the Chupacabra is and what people have been seeing and what has been the result.
	Which is animals being found with their blood drained.
	That's one part of the page.
	Another part of the page deals with the chupacabras as a cultural phenomenon.
	The way people have been commercializing this.
	Yeah, I think you can get a chupacabra t-shirt now, right?
	Yeah, I own one.
	Oh, you do?
	Yeah, my grandmother sent me one from Puerto Rico.
	Apparently they're selling very well there and in New York.
	That's what I've been hearing.
	When I first heard about this, I thought urban or even suburban legend.
	You know, sort of a myth.
	It sounds like a mythical creature, but now the reports are getting too numerous, too many reports to believe that.
	So one of two things is happening.
	Either we have this urban-suburban legend that is growing by leaps and bounds or La Chupacabra is growing by leaps and bounds because one little Chupacabra certainly could not there's no way that it could spread from Puerto Rico to South America, Central America, North America now all the way up to Oregon for heaven's sakes.
	They've got to be out there doing a bit of breeding.
	Do we know anything about its habitat?
	In other words First, it sounded like a warm or tropical area, semi-tropic area inhabitant, but now it's spreading north into temperate zones, and that's a little frightening.
	Yeah, I mean, I guess you could speculate all day on its habits.
	I mean, just from the evidence we have, I think we can draw a few conclusions in that it's not very basically limited.
	Do we know?
	climates such as Puerto Rico and we may even speculate that the chupacabras or chupacabras
	like creature moves to find either food, I mean just like any other animal.
	Do we know...
	I've been hearing right now that reports from Puerto Rico have been slowly decreasing in
	the past few weeks while reports from Mexico have been increasing.
	Exactly.
	And also in the U.S. as well so that may be another piece of evidence, another clue as
	to what this creature is all about.
	Do we know anything about, for example, is it, do you think, a nocturnal beast?
	Just from what people have been telling me through email, it seems to be mainly nocturnal, but definitely not limited to this.
	There's one report Great.
	one of the magazine articles in the page about a sighting which was
	uh...
	it was chipacabra was witnessed by a woman in puerto rico in broad daylight
	so when it's described in articles it's mostly described as diurnal
	which means that it's seen both day and night great
	uh... has anybody yet managed to take a photograph
	Um, not that I would see.
	I mean, basically, I mean, the way the Chupacabra has been moving throughout the Internet is that people exchange information very rapidly.
	And if someone had taken a photograph, then I would imagine that by now I would have gotten my hands on it.
	People have not.
	It's only been limited to people sketching the Chupacabra and basically either doing an animation or doing a computer image of it, which is, for example, the image that I have on my page at the beginning.
	That would be an artist's rendering of it.
	Okay, I can just tell you I would pick up and run.
	You wanted to talk a little bit, too, about the cultural aspect of this.
	So, give me your best shot there.
	Well, basically, you touched upon it earlier when you were talking about the Chupacabras as a myth.
	I find the subject to be As interesting, or maybe even more interesting, than the whole mystery of the chupacabras, the creature.
	I think that the way, especially Puerto Ricans, have reacted to this, and then Mexicans and Americans and South Americans have reacted to this, points to the fact that the creation of a new type of folkloric beast, similar to, say for example, a leprechaun in Ireland.
	This has become a part of Puerto Rican culture, for good or for worse, right now.
	It's also been given life in the commercial sphere, due to the t-shirts, and there's been a couple songs written on it.
	Songs?
	Chupacabra songs?
	Yeah, in a genre called merengue, which is a type of Latin music.
	There's been a couple songs written about that, and they've been hits in Puerto Rico.
	Um, so that's another piece of the, uh, the cultural puzzle of it.
	And, um, then, I mean, obviously the t-shirts, uh, there's a report, for example, in, uh, of a restaurant being named after it in Miami.
	Really?
	Um, and, uh, an interesting thing is that the whole bloodsucking motif of the chupacabra has been, has been used in, uh, political commentary in Mexico.
	Um, the word chupacabra is now being used to describe politicians.
	Instead of politicians, chupacabras, huh?
	Yes.
	Some politicians have been likened to a chupacabra, sucking the blood out of people.
	It's pretty much very rapidly becoming a part of the vernacular.
	Well, let me tell you what bothers me, Tito.
	As long as this beast Yeah.
	uh... eating goats and chickens and things like that uh...
	we can almost dispassionately discuss it
	yet but they have a uh... they have pictures
	of a man in mexico city or near it who was attacked and looked at two giant bite marks
	and had a lot of his blood sucked and they have been so it's beginning to
	attack human beings that yeah i think you're exactly right
	And if it happens that it starts attacking humans, then this will turn very seriously, basically overnight, and it won't be as funny anymore.
	Yeah, well, we're a great source of quite a bit of blood.
	A human being carries a lot of blood.
	And would a creature, I guess a bat, get sustenance from blood?
	Is blood a, lack of a better phrase, is it a life giver?
	Would it sustain a creature of that size?
	Could it live on blood alone?
	Well, I have a couple sources in Puerto Rico who are telling me that this creature does not like human blood.
	How this person got this information, I really can't say because I don't know.
	I know this person personally, and I trust his judgment, so this is what he's saying.
	And besides that, people who have been emailing me, some people who seem to have some sort of information which I don't know how they got it, they say that this is not the case.
	However, I mean, obviously, you have to take this with a grain of salt, so I really can't tell you.
	Until we see this creature attacking humans, then we can assume that it's going to continue to do this, and maybe, hopefully, the man in Mexico City incident is an isolated event.
	Hopefully.
	But, you know, these reports, I'm quite shocked that the major networks are reporting on this in Los Angeles and elsewhere, and they're treating it not like the UFO stories, where, you know, frequently at the end of the newscast they all have a little laugh and so forth, They're not laughing.
	You mean that their training is serious?
	Yes, that's right.
	Yeah, that is very surprising.
	I think in some ways it's unprecedented.
	And that definitely is another piece of evidence that something serious is going on.
	What that is, we don't really know for sure, but that definitely is something serious.
	And it shouldn't be totally dismissed.
	I mean, you know, obviously, because of the lack of evidence, this shouldn't be taken totally seriously, but, I mean, we should be looking for, you know, to find answers.
	All right, let's take a couple of calls before the top of the hour, Tito, and see what people have to say.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Tito Armstrong about the La Chupacabra.
	Hi.
	Hello, Tito.
	Hello.
	With the Chupacabra?
	Uh-huh.
	Do you think there's any... You talked about it like being from a manifestation from hell or something of that effect.
	No, I did.
	Oh, you did.
	I said, well, obviously a religious person is going to think this thing, the way it looks and the way it operates is from down under.
	And I don't mean Australia.
	Yeah.
	Do you think there's any correlation between that and Howard Stern and Baba Booey?
	Oh, without a doubt, sir.
	Tito, what about you?
	Without a doubt.
	It's unanimous.
	Okay.
	In your ear, sir.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Tito Armstrong.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Art?
	Yes.
	This is Bill from Reno.
	Hello, Bill.
	Yes.
	I believe this Chupacabra thing... Chupacabra.
	Yes, I believe it to be older than we are.
	This is more than likely a Survivor of the Great Extinction living underground.
	Well, now there's something I hadn't thought of, Tito, that this thing may have come from a subterranean location.
	Well, I've been hearing about these subterranean motifs linked to the Chupacabra, and some people have said it.
	I mean, I don't know.
	I don't know.
	I mean, obviously no evidence at all, but I mean, that's just one of the many, many, many, many, many theories out there.
	Yeah, I wouldn't reject that.
	It may have been around for a very long time.
	Well, I think it fits in really well as far as all these earthquakes and whatnot.
	The tunnels are opening.
	It's true.
	Like down in Mexico or South Puerto Rico and then up in Portland.
	It seems pretty strange that they haven't been sighted between the two areas.
	It's a good point.
	Also, I've got a message here that I want to ask you about, Tito.
	From the chat room, it says, please ask more about the blood that was studied from the animal carcasses.
	You mentioned that it was an unknown blood type.
	Yeah, there have been some reports about that this blood was analyzed in a lab.
	And for example, one of the things that was found is that the iron content of it was, there was no correlation between that type of iron content and Any other type of blood that's been found in animals or humans.
	Oh, that's odd.
	Yeah, it is very odd.
	I mean, I really cannot confirm this report at all, but if this is true, then that's a piece of the puzzle right there.
	I mean, from scientific investigation of this and not just any claim of some person who claims to have seen this.
	If this is true, then it could be actual evidence pointing out that this is Something new, I mean, a creature that is not... that has no... that is new to this earth.
	Or, as you said, a mutation of some sort.
	Well, I'll say this much.
	Whatever it is, it seems to me that we've got to get one and study it, and we've got to find out what its sexual habits are like, and whether it's multiplying.
	One can only imagine, with all the reports across this many miles, That it is multiplying rapidly.
	And you've got to wonder, um, how we should react to it.
	In other words, whether it is something new, even though horrible to us, normal, and it should be here, or whether we should, as a civilization, decide we are going to eradicate it.
	But before we do either one or make a decision, we've got to know more about it, which means we've got to get our hands on one.
	Exactly.
	Um, there, I mean, it's...
	And I guess this is time to bring up the government cover-up angle, which is alive and well with the chupacabras, as it seems to be with a lot of things nowadays.
	Some people have said that the government has captured a couple of these creatures.
	And I mean, this is obviously unconfirmed, and I have no way of knowing this is true.
	It's just something someone said in an email.
	Probably at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, no doubt.
	Uh-huh, could be.
	And that they are studying this right now.
	And then, I think if I was a government official, then it would be logical for me to keep this quiet, at least for the time being.
	Until you figured out what you were dealing with to prevent panic.
	Basically, the same philosophy that people have been saying that the government hasn't been forthcoming about UFOs is that they want to avoid a panic.
	So, if I was them and I had a creature, then I would definitely keep it quiet for now.
	All right.
	Tito, hold on.
	We're going to take a break here at the top of the hour.
	My guest is Tito Armstrong, the subject, an unusual one, La Chupacabra, which now is making its debut appearance here in the U.S., so it's worth listening to.
	Anybody want to make a blood donation?
	A lot of calls when we come back.
	I'm going to be back in a minute.
	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from May 8, 1996.
	Good morning, everybody.
	We just did two hours on Chupacabra.
	You know me, I like doing different stuff.
	We have Tito Armstrong here, from Princeton, New Jersey, who operates the webpage that deals exclusively with Chupacabra, if you want to know more about it.
	Go to my webpage and jump to the Chupacabra page.
	That jump is there for you now.
	My webpage is www.artbell.com.
	Alright, it's off into the world of open line talk radio, and I'll outline some of what we're going to do here in a few moments.
	I want to let everybody know, Videon is on.
	We just brought the Videon program up, so if anybody wants to call and see me do my thing, now is the time.
	Off into news here in a moment.
	Credible sources in the U.S.
	forecast that unless present federal law is changed quickly, the next generation in America is going to pay more than 80%, 80% of their income in taxes.
	Try to imagine that.
	I think it will be a revolution first.
	That means you and everybody in America will depend on government for everything over your 20% allowance.
	It is going to happen here unless we stop it.
	Bad news is, we're going to have to stop it, do it ourselves.
	In case you haven't noticed, government gets its power and your money by convincing you.
	It's acting in your interest.
	You know, I'm from the government, here to help you.
	That's how we got into all this.
	Good news is, we can absolutely force Washington back on track.
	It's all in the Sentinel strategy from the American Sentinel Group.
	The information you're going to have to have to light a fire under Washington's butt.
	For a limited time only, it's $19.95.
	Call 1-800-219-8787 and ask for the Sentinel Strategy.
	It's your call.
	The number is 1-800-219-8787.
	Have MasterCard or Visa ready, write it down, call it now.
	and ask for the Sentinel Strategy. It's your call. The number is 1-800-219-8787.
	Have MasterCard or Visa ready, write it down, call it now.
	1-800-219-8787.
	And one more note on Chupacabra.
	Dear Art, I've seen the website, and you have not seen the look of terror as the victims were overlooking their herd of goats.
	Somebody needs to interview these people.
	It was a full-blown news story on KMOL in San Antonio.
	Art, not, it is, he says, Bexar County.
	Bear County is what it is.
	It is real.
	How come Linda Moulton Howe hasn't been here by now?
	These people knew the deal.
	Well, I would imagine Linda Moulton Howe will make it down there if that's going to be a center of activity for Chupacabra.
	I wanted to tell you about some guests that I'm working on.
	I have booked the attorney from the O.J.
	Simpson trial, Gerald Ullman, who's written a new book called Lessons from the Trial.
	He'll be here June 3rd.
	I'm going to book and have been talking with Jerry Parnell, Dr. Jerry Parnell.
	He wrote, co-wrote actually, a book called Lucifer's Hammer, which I have been a big fan of for a very, very long time.
	And also I've been talking with, though I have not booked because he's a busy man, Tom Clancy.
	I talked to Tom Clancy back and forth with a few email messages early this morning, after the program, yesterday morning actually now.
	And so, I even know the title of his new book, but I can't tell.
	And so, indeed, At some point here, we're going to have Tom Clancy on, and I'm really, really looking forward to that.
	I've wanted to interview Tom Clancy for a long time, so that's a little bit of what's coming up.
	Now, this was mentioned on yesterday's show late in the program, and it appears to be true.
	Art, sorry to fill up your mailbox with email, but this new Pepsi drink story is true.
	There's a new Pepsi drink.
	Now, It's a pretty strange story.
	It apparently uses some kind of Brazilian berry.
	While many Brazilians consider the Grana berry, I think it is, to be a sexual stimulant, PepsiCo is making no claims like that.
	It is a new soft drink made with the exotic Amazon fruit.
	Let's just say people are drawn to the berry by its powerful image and mystery, said Brad Shaw, spokesman for Pepsi at headquarters in Summers, New York.
	PepsiCo said Monday it is expanding the test marketing of Josta, that's J-O-S-T-A, a carbonated beverage made with this berry that contains caffeine.
	And they say They say it is a sexual stimulant.
	Now, they may not be Pepsi, they're not making that claim, but everybody else is saying it.
	And I think instead of calling it JASTA, they should call it Love Potion Number 9.
	I don't know if they're going to do that, but I think they ought to.
	The news from Washington, such as it is, really isn't much.
	The big thing today is The fight over the gas tax.
	It's kind of dumb.
	The President had a news conference.
	Bob Dole had a news conference.
	The President said he wanted two good, clean bills.
	A temporary repeal of the 4.3 cent gas tax.
	Temporary.
	He threw that word in.
	And a hike in the minimum wage.
	He'd want that to be permanent.
	Bob Dole said, well, okay!
	Let's do it, but we'll have three clean bills.
	We'll have the repeal of the gas tax.
	I think Bob Dole wants it to be permanent.
	Yes, we'll have a hike in the minimum wage.
	And number three, a union labor act, also clean, called the TEAM Act.
	Well, late in the day, the president said he'd veto number three.
	And Bob Dole said, uno momento, You're going to veto that?
	Well then, then we're back to square one.
	Look, folks, it's what I told you a long time ago about gas prices, and NBC did a big deal on it yesterday.
	They had finally admitted the truth about it all.
	Gas prices are about to fall anyway.
	What the President's gonna do with one day's supply injected into the system is the only way you'd really affect anything, because you're affecting supply and demand.
	But, you know, it's kind of like spitting in the ocean.
	Good old-fashioned supply and demand that's really going to cure this, and it is being cured.
	Foreign oil imports are up.
	Refinery output is up.
	Inventories are up.
	Wholesale gas in the last week went from $0.77 to $0.68.
	More importantly, crude oil has fallen $4 per barrel since February.
	So all of this is going to be apparent at the pump soon.
	Prices should fall by about the middle of this month.
	So that you might know what other nations pay for their gas.
	In the U.S.
	now, we have an average of $1.46 per gallon.
	Britain, $2.99.
	Japan, $3.90.
	forty six cents per gallon britain two ninety nine japan three ninety and in
	the netherlands if you want to to about it will cost you four dollars and
	forty three cents a gallon
	so the whole thing uh...
	the political manipulation of this is exactly that political manipulation
	and it's ridiculous
	Supply and demand is what is either going to cure or kill all of this.
	Anyway, it's a useless argument, and what is of interest is the recent Harris poll that shows Bill Clinton 31 points ahead of Bob Dole.
	And the obvious question is, is there any way, any way that you can see that Bob Dole could possibly, in any way, beat Bill Clinton?
	If there is, if you know of any way, I would certainly be interested in knowing about it.
	And, by the way, one of the reasons that I want to bring the author, the co-author of Lucifer's Hammer in is, I'm beginning to get word of an asteroid that is out there, and I'll try and dig out what information I have on it.
	We've done a couple of what-if shows regarding asteroids, and yesterday morning, coincidentally, I sat down and watched something.
	I wonder how many of you recall a movie called Without Warning?
	Without warning.
	I thought that's one of the best things a network ever put together.
	And I sat down and watched Without Warning again.
	It is one chilling movie.
	I don't think you can get a copy of it.
	I think it was CBS that ran it, and they ran it one time only.
	It was, when was that?
	Was it Halloween?
	I think it was Halloween.
	They did it on the anniversary.
	On Halloween.
	And what a frightening movie that was about a comet headed toward Earth, and I wouldn't want to spoil it for anybody who's not seen it yet, but it had a remarkable ending to it.
	All right, what we're going to do is open line talk radio.
	Kevorkian has struck again in Michigan, and he'll probably end up going on trial once again.
	There's the guy I'd like to interview, Kevorkian.
	I'd love to interview Kevorkian.
	Anybody knows how to get hold of Kevorkian?
	By all means, get hold of them and tell them I want to interview them.
	The Whitewater testimony continues.
	The U.S.
	is threatening China with sanctions because they keep copying our software and it's never ending.
	There's a new report out today saying pollution kills, ooh what a surprise, 64,000 Americans meeting their early grave due to pollution.
	Maybe that's where the chupacabra came from, who knows?
	The Court of Appeals has rejected our President's attempt to further delay the Paula Jones case.
	The President presently has until May 16th to file a petition With the U.S.
	Supreme Court to get all this stopped.
	Otherwise, the President goes to trial.
	A civil trial.
	And yesterday we talked a bit about drugs and I said, I didn't say that we should do it.
	I started something really big.
	I didn't say that we should do it.
	Are you listening to me now?
	I said that it would work.
	That the government, or anybody else, could, in effect, interdict some drugs, hardcore drugs, you know, crack cocaine, perhaps, heroin, that sort of thing, and covertly poison those drugs, and the net effect would be, people would stop using them.
	Well, not all people.
	It's true, the hardcore addicts would continue to use those drugs, of course they'd be dropping dead, So they wouldn't be back for more.
	And everybody who was using them socially would go, uh-uh, I don't want any of that stuff, thank you.
	So, you know, that caused all hell to break loose here on the program yesterday when I said that they called it and said, BLEH, be murder!
	Well, in a war, people die.
	In a war, when people die, they don't call it murder.
	Would it be in this case?
	Well, I suppose technically so.
	All right.
	Anything is fair a game for talk radio here.
	Anything at all you want to talk about?
	Let's rock.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, how you doing?
	This is Rafael from Beckett Field.
	Ah, yes, Rafael.
	Yeah, I'm, uh, listening to you through, uh, I'm telling everybody in Bakersfield, watch it on 840.
	Anyway, I want to talk about drugs.
	in the back of your they should be put they don't give you the blue land
	complete policy i'm telling everybody because you watch it on the
	eight forty listen you know what went on television rafael were radio
	so you gotta listen to it on eight forty
	or of course kanzi are in baker's season alright anyway i want to talk about uh... uh...
	drug remember about fifteen years ago money when i was uh...
	are contaminated with uh... carolina Paraquat.
	It was called Paraquat.
	Paraquat, yeah.
	That didn't stop it at all.
	No.
	But that also didn't kill people.
	Well... Made them very sick, though.
	Made them sick was a big difference.
	Yeah.
	Another thing I want to tell you about is, uh, about, uh... You talk about the character of Clinton all the time.
	Well, I don't know if you remember Reagan.
	I remember Reagan?
	Reagan, yeah.
	I mean, he was married to Jane Wyman.
	Yeah.
	You know?
	Yeah.
	And he got Nancy Wilson impregnated.
	Yes.
	I mean, you know, being a married man.
	But I mean, he did marry her, right?
	Well, after that, but talk about character, man.
	He married her, though.
	Yeah.
	So another thing, the Chupacabra.
	Did the Honorable... That's quite a jump.
	Now we're going to talk about Chupacabra, all right?
	Well, I have a lot of things.
	Oh, you should read the latest Roswell letter, too.
	The... Oh, you mean the one I got?
	Yeah, you're right, I should.
	Yeah, Chupacabra.
	You know, Chupacabra, what it is?
	What is it?
	It's the ghost of Richard Nixon.
	You know, you joke.
	People are joking, but this animal, this creature, this thing is real.
	Moreover, it's here.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, I had a comment about the chupacabra.
	Yes.
	As I listened, I'm calling from Boulder City, Nevada.
	Yes, sir.
	As I listened to your program tonight, about the first time I've ever heard of them, it seems to draw a lot of parallels to another elusive creature, the Sasquatch.
	Oh, yes.
	Something that, you know, people have seen Well, you never know.
	that have never caught and I have a feeling that's going to be the same thing with the
	chupacabra.
	It's been around so long that nobody's ever going to catch it.
	Well, you never know.
	Maybe the dumb thing will run into a boxed alley or something one of these days and they'll
	get it.
	Yeah, that's kind of like sasquatch.
	You think you jump out like the movie Harry and the Hendersons.
	You know what I don't like about this?
	I mean, anything that could run, say, 65 miles an hour, if you were within sight of it, and it decided that it wanted you, it would have you.
	Yeah.
	Just imagine if the Sasquatch was a meat-eater.
	Maybe it is.
	Imagine if it ate people.
	Well, meat's bad enough, but this blood thing... Yeah, it's kind of gruesome.
	Yuck.
	Yeah.
	All right, sir.
	Thank you very much, and watch your neck.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	Yes, hello.
	Yeah, hi.
	I was calling to talk about the chupacabra.
	All right.
	I tried desperately to get through before I really wanted to talk to Tito.
	First of all, I'm in Washington.
	My name's Sean.
	Yes, sir.
	And what I wanted to talk to him about is I spent some time down in Peru.
	Yes.
	In a little village called Ushantita.
	And the shaman down there, which is really unusual, he had a pipe carved out of this creature.
	And the first time I saw the creature, I asked him, through the translator, I said, what is that?
	And he explained to me, through the translator, that that was the spirit that protected the village.
	And that creature that was carved was a winged creature.
	And what was most amazing about it is they had put these two huge red-orange beads in
	the creature as eyes.
	It had wings, big huge ears.
	And I asked him, have you seen this creature?
	And he said, many times.
	And he told everyone at night, he said, if you see this creature, do not follow it into
	Listen sir, I've got a break.
	Do you want to hold on?
	Sure.
	Stay where you are.
	We'll bring you back after the break.
	and i wanted to ask you know if you get uh... had any reports about this at all
	is that it came from the spirit world and it was a protector
	however they believe listen sir i i've got a break do you want to hold on
	here stay where you are will bring you back after the break it's our nickel
	These are the Statler Bucks.
	I keep hearing you're concerned about my happiness.
	But all that thought you've given me is nonsense, I guess.
	If I were walking in your shoes, I wouldn't worry none.
	While you and your friends are worrying about me, I'm having lots of fun.
	Counting flowers on the wall, that don't bother me at all.
	Playing solitaire til dawn with a deck of fifty-one Smokin' cigarettes and watchin' Captain Jangaroo Now don't tell me I've nothing to do Last night I dressed in pale, pretended I was on the couch.
	As long as I can dream, it's hard to slide the swinger down.
	So please don't give a thought to me, I'm really doing fine.
	You can always find me here and have it quite a time.
	Got my flowers on the wall that don't bother me at all.
	Playing solitaire to dawn with a deck of fifty-one Playing solitaire to dawn with a deck of fifty-one
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM, from May 8, 1996.
	It certainly is, and I've got a little information for you here.
	Remember I told you I'm pursuing Dr. Jerry Parnell, co-author of Lucifer's Hammer?
	Let me tell you one of the reasons why.
	I got this delivered to me on the internet today.
	Astronomers are keeping a watchful eye on Mokholtz 2, a comet discovered to be racing toward the sun by an American scientist last month.
	Shortly after the comet was discovered, observers reported the comet had broken up in a manner similar to comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 before its impact with Jupiter in July.
	There is some concern that fragments of comet Markov 2 could impact the Earth in the future.
	Five fragments have been spotted thus far.
	All are headed for Earth's orbit.
	However, astronomers warn, it is extremely difficult to predict the long-term behavior of the comet fragments, and advise the comet will be monitored closely.
	That was from Dr. Byron Weeks, who signs it, Let a smile be your umbrella.
	Ha ha ha ha.
	Yeah.
	West of the Rockies, you're back on the air again.
	Hi.
	Yeah, hi Art.
	Anyway, I was speaking to you about, I didn't catch the first part of What Tito said, but what I was curious about was whether or not, because I actually have, I brought home with me, because I was so amazed at this creature, because the shaman had said that he had physically seen the creature and that it was the protector of the village.
	I have a staff with a carving of this creature on it with the big orange eyes in it.
	Wow.
	And I was wondering, what they believe is it's from the spirit world, but they believe that it comes from Middle Earth.
	And what I was wondering was whether he, Tito, had spoke at all about if there had been any knowledge or anyone had come forth saying that it was the possibility, or if he had any reports, I know they'd be obviously a lot more difficult.
	As in from the earth?
	Not from the earth, but from the spirit world itself.
	Well, yes.
	Yes, all right.
	Look, we had a man from, who was the state director for MUFON in Florida, presently in Los Angeles, who I brought on the program.
	He said there was a report of somebody who had literally seen the earth open.
	Strange.
	I know it sounds strange.
	But this might indeed be the source of these creatures.
	Might be.
	I don't know.
	know I have no way of knowing.
	Alright back to it we go.
	Frankly, I am not surprised by reports of the chupacabra.
	I'm not surprised that these kinds of things are going on.
	Somehow, it all fits in, doesn't it?
	I'm not sure how, but it all fits in with what's going on in the world today.
	It just sort of fits in.
	New diseases, new creatures, new things just about every day.
	Maybe it's always been that way.
	I don't know.
	But it does seem to be accelerating.
	Doesn't it?
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Barbie from Mesa, Arizona.
	Hi, Barbie.
	And I wanted to let you know about that odd soda that you guys have been talking about.
	You mean Love Potion No.
	9?
	That's what I'm going to call it.
	I wouldn't exactly call it that.
	That's guarana that they put in that, which is a really high caffeine herb from South America.
	It is not an aphrodisiac.
	Listen, dear, would you turn your radio off for us, please?
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	I missed one.
	You mean you have multiple radios on?
	I've got to be able to hear you.
	I can only hear the one in the bedroom in the bedroom.
	I see.
	All right.
	Well, you say it is not an aphrodisiac.
	It's not an aphrodisiac.
	Actually, it's an adrenal stimulant.
	Well, maybe that is, for some, an aphrodisiac.
	And maybe if people think it's an aphrodisiac, it is.
	You're right.
	There is a psychological factor to it.
	Yeah, exactly.
	But that's what it is.
	It's guarana, and it's an herb from South America, which is like caffeine.
	It is caffeine.
	That's basically what it is.
	Well, caffeine is thought by many to be a stimulant, an aphrodisiac.
	So maybe in that loose sense, they're classing it there.
	Anyway, it's bound to be popular.
	Have you had any?
	I've used guarana before in conjunction with a diet.
	That didn't do anything for me.
	A diet, huh?
	Sure.
	It's like caffeine.
	It stimulates your nervous system and it depresses your appetite.
	All right.
	Well, thank you very much.
	It seems anything that would do that.
	Water could be said to have aphrodisiac qualities to it.
	I think that would change the name.
	Hey, PepsiCo, change the name.
	You know, if you're gonna stick your neck out, go out all the way.
	Call it Love Potion No.
	9.
	It'll sell like crazy.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, uh, you got the Shadow here from Citrus Heights.
	Hello, Shadow.
	Yeah, I wanna ask you three things.
	First of all, could you play the, uh, the cat, uh, sound effect you got?
	I'm, uh, recording your show, and I'd like to play it back for, uh, my parents' cat.
	For your parents' cat?
	Uh-huh, sure.
	The other thing I want to say, I got an idea for a good guest host when you're on vacation or something.
	Say I am, yes.
	Have you heard of Ray Caraparo?
	I've heard of Ray.
	Are you kidding?
	Of course I'm kidding.
	I just had a story, because I know most of your listeners have never heard of him, and of course us on the West Coast have heard of him.
	So I thought I'd throw that out just to see what your reaction would be.
	My reaction is that my audience would lynch me when I got back in the country.
	I mean, Ray's... Look, I've talked to Ray.
	Ray's actually a very nice guy, but I don't think he'd precisely fit in, you know?
	Oh, anyway, I just want to say hello to everyone working for Premium Security.
	That's the company I work for.
	Premium Security, huh?
	Yep.
	Alright, you got in your plug.
	Okay, bye.
	Thanks, bye.
	Ray's a good guy, actually.
	Ray is every inch the liberal on in San Francisco.
	And I've listened to Ray for years.
	It's the only radio I ever kicked.
	Once I kicked a radio listening to Ray.
	It was a horrible thing to do.
	I regret it to this day.
	He's something else.
	Anyway, by request, here it comes.
	Get any cats you have off your lap.
	I hereby warn you, get them off your lap.
	Or they're going to do a peel out on your lap that you're not going to like one bit.
	Because here comes the... This is so good!
	So good!
	Even my cats, who have heard it now a million times, react the same way every time they hear it.
	They go absolutely nuts.
	I am convinced the following is a real true sound of a cat getting its tail stepped on.
	And you've got to see the expression on your cat.
	Dogs like it.
	Dogs like it.
	They seem to enjoy it.
	When the sound... You know, it's obviously a cat in great distress.
	I really suspect a tail being crunched or something.
	I don't know.
	I don't know how they got it, but I bet that's how they got it!
	Anyway, check this out.
	Turn the volume up and watch your cat's face.
	Here it comes. Absolutely guaranteed.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello, Ms.
	Rell.
	Hi.
	Um, I had a kind of a folklore story from the Philippines.
	It has to do kind of with a chupacabra.
	Yes, yes.
	Over in the Philippines, they have what's called the Manananggal.
	Have you ever heard of it?
	No, I haven't.
	It's a kind of a vampire-like creature where it, at night, leaves the lower half of its body in the room, flies out the window, and goes around the land taking young children.
	Right.
	Anyway, I heard about this down at language school in Psychological Operations for the Army.
	And they talked about how the CIA, back, I don't know, I think it was in the 70s, used to do, they used to grab people, the rebels, they'd grab one of the guys and take him off and kill him, drain out his blood and leave him as kind of a psychological type thing.
	So I don't know how much truth there is to it, but it's kind of an interesting story, it's an interesting folklore, and as you said, there's always a... Well, I would like for all of this to stay folklore.
	The problem is, at the moment, It's not.
	That's true.
	And I don't want to see one of these things.
	I don't want to meet one of them.
	I wouldn't try to catch one.
	And if I saw one, I'd run.
	Turntail.
	You've got it.
	Turntail is right.
	All right.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	But I'm just not surprised.
	A new animal?
	An old animal?
	An animal from down under?
	And I'm not talking about Australia.
	I don't know.
	Something's here, though.
	Knockin' at the door, east of the Rockies, you're on the air, hello.
	I'm Mr. Bell.
	Mr. Culler.
	How you doin'?
	I'm doin'.
	This is Leonard from the Town and Town, and I'm in Auburn, we're callin' ya.
	Bexar County, right?
	Yes, sir, B-E-X-A-R, but it's pronounced B-E-A-R.
	I finally got that.
	Believe me, I made that mistake once, and I got 10,000 faxes from Bexar County.
	I've been tryin' for a couple hours now to get ahold of ya.
	A little footnote on the Chicago?
	Yes.
	It's been there before.
	Back in the late 60s, it was called... It was reported in the newspaper, San Antonio Life and Express News, that there was cattle mutilations and there were sightings of a bird the size of a small airplane.
	The size of a small airplane?
	Yes, sir.
	Great.
	And... Well, anyway, that went on for possibly a couple of weeks and there was...
	Are they running a lot of stories about this now in San Antone?
	Sir, I haven't been home in about a month, month and a half on the catch driver.
	Oh, so you're not in San Antone now?
	Uh, well, I'm from all over the United States.
	Where are you now?
	I'm in Amarillo.
	Amarillo?
	Yes, sir.
	Okay, um, well, alright, thank you very much.
	Yes, there are, I can tell you, I was asking because I already knew.
	There are a lot of stories running now about Chupacabra in San Antone.
	And if you look at a map, If you look carefully at a map and look where San Antonio is, it's no big surprise.
	Look at Mexico, look at San Antonio, and look at the southern U.S.
	border and California.
	I don't know about all the reports we're getting right now from Oregon, but it makes sense that it would be hitting in the border areas first.
	And bear in mind, there is a story from Mexico City, it was on Mexican television network, showing a man who had been unfortunately attacked by chupacabra.
	So it's getting fairly serious.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air, hello.
	Hi Art, this is Debra in Columbia, South Carolina.
	Hi Debra!
	I was thinking about your recent show on the Philadelphia Experiment and the cloaking process.
	Yes.
	That the gentleman said he could reproduce.
	And it reminded me of the chupacabra being able to appear and disappear.
	And I wonder if during these experiments they've maybe opened some kind of door and let something in they didn't know about.
	It's entirely possible.
	Well, thanks, sir.
	I sure enjoy your show.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	Sure, who knows?
	It is absolutely open to speculation at this point.
	Where it's from, whether it's something old, something new, something from somebody's lab, you name it, it's open for speculation right now.
	The only thing that seems fairly sure is that there is something here.
	Something has arrived.
	Figures it'd be something like this, huh?
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Ben from Seattle.
	Hello, Ben.
	I've just got a quick question.
	I'm curious.
	The guest you had on earlier, Tito... Armstrong.
	Right.
	Armstrong.
	He mentioned that there were some hit songs in Puerto Rico.
	Chupacabra?
	As a matter of fact, if you go to his webpage, I believe you can download one of them.
	Okay.
	I was curious if I could access one of those.
	I don't have a computer myself, but I have some friends who do.
	So maybe I'll look for that.
	Talk to your friends.
	I will do that.
	Thanks a lot.
	see you later or to cover
	can't do that at all used to the rockies you're on the air for a little bit of a
	little yes excellent program there
	well it was like i try to do programs that other people don't do
	You know, people say I'm nuts.
	Maybe I am.
	Okay, I'll try to run through the quick list here.
	Matter of fact, last week I heard Stanton Friedman on a Florida program there, radio program, that there was a UFO crash in Brazil somewhere.
	No, no, no, no.
	That's wrong.
	Wrong, wrong, wrong.
	Stanton is going down to a conference in Brazil.
	Well, no, I heard on the program there was maybe either Brazil or somewhere there about South America.
	Well, the rumor was that it was a UFO crash.
	From what I heard from Stanton, it's not true.
	It grew out of the fact that he is going to a conference in Brazil.
	Okay.
	Well, I just thought, well, what they talked about was that there was two bodies.
	One had passed away, then one was taken to the United States and then impossible.
	Yes.
	What do you think?
	Let me ask you what you think.
	you know the uh... alien connections always there is a lot of hybrid uh...
	well you know uh... yet that the way it all about opening that window
	shall we play the uh... well
	what do you think i let me ask you what you think do you think this to become
	briefing israel or do you think it is just some growing myth
	i would not be a surprise if it were real simply is that uh...
	information you gather from different sources.
	They have the wild man in Russia, they call it.
	He was observed at the speed of 45 miles an hour.
	As a matter of fact, I got a kick out of it.
	I was out in the garage moving things around.
	I got to get a car and a restoration vehicle.
	I heard the person call up about the Raptors, and I thought, finally!
	I mean, that sort of speed, something with that sort of potential.
	Sounds like a raptor, doesn't it?
	Well, to have that sort of speed, you know, the Archaeopteryx was sort of the forefront of the bird, shall we say, nowadays.
	It's enough to make a person agoraphobic.
	Well, I mean, it would certainly be quite a day to go out there and park with your dog and then one of these things fly down and scoop your dog up and he's gone.
	Plain of barks disappearing into the sunset, yes.
	In San Francisco art, all hell broke loose today.
	The headlines screamed, Congress assails same-sex marriage, and families intact, and city blasts policy.
	And such regarding a bill introduced to define marriage as one man, one woman.
	A bill introduced to define marriage as one man, one woman.
	When, my faxer says, are people going to decide that they need to speak up?
	Or are we in an era where families are to become non-existent?
	Marriage is a biblical term.
	In states where same-sex marriage is proposed, the statutes force churches and synagogues to fall under the political strong arm of having to perform such marriages.
	If union were the term, it would almost be different.
	But no, the term marriage is used in all cases to 1.
	Make folks feel normal.
	Adoption is next, because when marriage doesn't do it, maybe kids will.
	2.
	Eliminate the objections of the Bible and Koran and such.
	Of leaving churches, synagogues, and temples, and three paved the way for the formation of an official religion in violation of the First Amendment, but who cares under a world government?
	Come on, folks, wake up!
	Art in San Francisco.
	Well, how do you guys feel about that?
	Should marriage be defined by law as one man, one woman?
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Art Bell!
	That's me.
	Hey, John from Sacramento.
	Hello, John.
	Hi, how you doing?
	I'm doing.
	What's the show?
	Yes.
	Just wanted to say, uh... That was it, huh?
	I think that was his attempt at Gabriel's horn.
	It wasn't a very good one, was it?
	That was more like Tim's horn or something.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, who is this, please?
	Who will you call it?
	I'm trying to get ahold of Art Bell.
	Well then, this is your lucky day.
	Oh, finally!
	Yes, where are you?
	Leavenworth, Kansas.
	Leavenworth.
	Right.
	Yes, I'm calling about the chupacabra.
	Yes.
	Because my parents reside in Puerto Rico.
	I had heard about this a long, long time ago when it first came out in the news.
	Right.
	And it was brought out by the mayor of the town where this creature first appeared.
	It's called Canovanas.
	Oh?
	And it's a very small town, almost at the foot of the El Yunque National Forest.
	Right.
	And when he first brought it out, you know, and called the news and the law enforcement, everybody was, like, making fun of him.
	Well, he was just trying to call attention to himself.
	But he persisted with the information that this is really going on.
	And then I think there was an interview in one of the Univision Spanish...
	So, you believe the chupacabra is very real, I take it?
	I think so, because when my parents sent me the newspapers from Puerto Rico, and they had pictures of the animals with this wound on their neck, and I mean, the story was all over the place, and in this Christina show in Univision, They interviewed one of the veterinarians that looked the animals.
	Listen, dear, I've got a break coming up.
	Can you hold?
	Sure, yes.
	Alright, we'll hold you through the news and come right back to you.
	Chupacabra.
	Animals coming across.
	Bloodsuckers.
	Strange times.
	first to live in strange times folks come on baby, don't feel afraid, baby take my hand, don't
	feel afraid, we'll be able to fly, don't feel afraid, baby I'm your man
	la la la la la la...
	music...
	music...
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired May 8, 1996.
	Batten down the hatches, everybody.
	I'm about to change the subject, and it's going to get very serious.
	well i guess we'll do the to cover is very very serious it's only
	but i've got a story here that's been for all your hair so get ready
	let us finish up with this young lady and i'm sorry where were you
	Leavenworth, Kansas.
	That's right.
	Home of the famous prison.
	Yep.
	Got it.
	That is what Leavenworth is famous for, right?
	That's true, and a couple of other prisons are on this place.
	It's called Prison Town.
	Prison Town, huh?
	Well, anyway, on La Chupacabra.
	Yes, going back to the chupacabras.
	Yeah, this animal first appeared in Puerto Rico, and lately it's been appearing all over the place, but it's also been all over the island, too, in different towns, different, you know, like west coast, east coast, southern coast of the island.
	Yes.
	And it's getting pretty weird.
	At first, you know, I was skeptical, too, and I thought, you know, it's just publicity, whatever.
	But then I watched Unsolved Mysteries, and they had sent a crew down there, too, to look into it.
	And some other people that are related to UFOs and things like that also went down there to look into it, but no one has come out with anything real about what's going on.
	Even our Linda Howe from Dreamland has gone down there and interviewed people who have seen this damn thing, and so I too have come around.
	I first thought myth, weird, odd, And so on and so on, but now the reports appear to be everywhere.
	Right, yeah.
	So, we've got it here.
	Are you originally from Puerto Rico?
	Yes, I am.
	I can tell by the way you say chupacabra so well.
	Let me hear you say it one more time.
	Chupacabra.
	Oh, cute.
	Alright.
	And the way it's got its name is because the first animals that were dead were goats.
	And the farmer, you know, named the animal Chupacabra.
	Well, let's hope it doesn't acquire a taste for little Puerto Rican girls.
	I hope not!
	I'll see you later.
	Okay, I love your show.
	Thank you.
	Carry on.
	Take care.
	Carry on.
	Well, carry on in a moment is going to be some pretty serious stuff.
	This comes under the category of I told you so, I guess.
	It comes to me from K.O.N.A., our affiliate in Tri-Cities, Washington.
	Thank you, Fred.
	It is an Associated Press story.
	And Fred writes to me, Art, a little something this morning to brighten your day.
	Associated Press, folks, in case you want to know where it's from.
	Oregon News.
	Members of the Eastern Oregon Militia say they are prepared to declare war.
	I said, declare war on the U.S.
	military if the Freeman standoff in Montana should turn violent.
	Walt Hasse, that's H-A-S-S-E-Y, who describes himself as legal advisor to the militia, says there are no civilian targets.
	He says the targets are going to be the military.
	The FBI, going on here, issued a nationwide alert to law enforcement agencies on April 23rd, warning of a militia war plan.
	Hold you about that.
	Hasse says the Eastern Oregon militia has a plan called Operation Clean Sweep to defend the freemen and protect their rights.
	Hasse warns if federal agents storm in and people are killed in Montana there's going to be retribution.
	He says military members won't have to go to Montana.
	He says there are military targets in other states At the same time, he says, the public has nothing to fear.
	He says, the militia is not involved in terrorism.
	So, the Oregon Militia, according to this story, has plans to go to war against the U.S.
	military if the freemen are attacked.
	I would like to talk to somebody, maybe this man Massey, or a member of the Oregon Militia.
	So I am hereby setting aside a line for somebody in the Oregon Militia, or this man Massey, uh, to call the program.
	Everybody else stop calling my first time caller line, alright?
	I'm gonna try, ever hopeful, to hold this line open.
	Only for members of the Eastern Oregon Militia, Or this Massey fellow who appears to be a spokesman for them.
	And as I said, I'll tell you what, this comes under the category of I told you so, I told you so.
	Anyway, that number open right now is area code 702-727-1222.
	Please call right now.
	seven two seven one two two two please call right now
	seven oh two seven two seven one two two two if you're in the eastern oregon militia or
	if you're this massey fellow
	or if you know about this what do you suppose is going to happen
	if militias begin declaring war on the u.s. military military?
	If they begin attacking, forget civilian targets, if they begin attacking military targets in the U.S., and I've got a list here in that warning, So now, this certainly comes under the category of, here we go again.
	The story I read you was Associated Press.
	Cursed to live in interesting times, huh?
	No wonder LeChupacabra's here.
	If you suffer from headaches, neck aches, low back discomfort, rheumatism bursitis, joint pain, If you bent your thumb back the way I did, what an abysmal injury that was.
	I hurt myself.
	I really, really hurt myself.
	I had pain that can only be described as the worst pain you would have when you have a toothache.
	I mean sharp, jabbing pain.
	You wouldn't think your thumb could hurt that way, but I'll tell you what, it can.
	I used Laprena on it, and it took that pain from a sharp Hurting, jabbing pain, right down to a dull ache.
	And that was an amazing, absolutely amazing transition.
	This is liquid aspirin.
	It's real aspirin.
	In a bottle.
	Well, actually, in a spray bottle.
	Soon to be in a roll-on.
	But right now, a spray bottle, all you do is go, ch-ch-ch, spray on it, rub it in a little bit, and the pain's gone like that.
	You see, I can snap my finger at my thumb and You know, I can do that again, thanks to Luprina.
	Health naturally sells it, and you just have got to get yourself some.
	It belongs in your medicine cabinet.
	Whoever told you you've got to take aspirin by mouth, I guess just didn't know about Luprina.
	The number to call to order is 1-800-308-4565.
	is 1-800-308-4565.
	565-1-866-010.
	What we're going to do again, I mean this, if you're calling my first-time caller line, hang up.
	You'll be wasting your money unless you are a member of the Eastern Oregon Militia, or you are a man named Massey, who is the spokesman for them.
	We're going to set up a little discussion here, I think.
	This is really serious stuff.
	Can you do that?
	Can you threaten to attack the military?
	That's not exactly... I guess it's not exactly calling for the overthrow of the government.
	It's awfully damn close, isn't it?
	So, if you're in the militia, you call me at Area Code 702-727-1222 and we'll get a bit of a discussion going here.
	Here we go.
	This is somebody who we are going to identify only as Jay.
	That's not his real name.
	He is in Oregon, is that right?
	Somewhere in Oregon, not to be identified where.
	Right, Jay?
	That's true.
	Alright, Jay, are you a member of the militia?
	That's true.
	Alright, did you hear the story I just read from the Associated Press?
	I heard the story that you just read.
	Do you know that to be roughly accurate?
	I know that to be roughly accurate, and I also know that Oregon is not the only person involved in this.
	I've been hearing about this now for some days, Jay, and the plan would be then, if the free men are attacked, the Oregon militia, or at least that part of it, and other militias across the country, unnamed, will attack military targets?
	This is true.
	Do you want to give me your reasoning for doing that?
	Simply because the government is overstepping its boundaries here.
	Alright, I take it you sympathize with the Freeman's plight?
	I sympathize with all militias and all militias and the Freeman, yes I do.
	Do you worry at all, Jay, that Were you to begin attacking the military, there would virtually be a war.
	You know, I don't want to talk on this line too long because I'm afraid I'm going to be traced.
	No, you won't be traced.
	Not by me.
	I promise you.
	We've got no caller ID here, despite my jokes, and you're not going to be traced.
	You're not going to be traced.
	Look, this is in the major media now anyway.
	Here it is in the Associated Press, Jay, so it's not like it's a big secret anymore.
	Once it hits the AP, it's out.
	Correct, but they don't know our agenda.
	Well, tell me, what is your agenda?
	We're sick of being limited by government.
	Do you think it's realistic, Jay, To imagine that you can have an effect on the U.S.
	military, that you can have an effect on U.S.
	policy by attacking hard targets, military targets.
	I don't know.
	I seriously don't know.
	Don't you think it would be suicidal?
	I... Probably.
	But...
	The Afghanistan's held a hell of a force against Russia.
	They did.
	It's true.
	Um, can you tell me, or us, all of us, uh, it's not just, you say, the Eastern Oregon, uh, militia.
	Art, um, may I go off the line and call you back at a different number?
	I, you know, your chances of getting through are slim and none, but- I'm protecting myself here.
	I understand.
	Alright, yes you may.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	Damn.
	You know, I don't know what to say to that.
	you Except I guess I've been expecting it.
	it. You know how serious this is? Are you ready for this?
	Are we ready for this?
	Do the people who are about ready to do this understand what they're going to be doing?
	God help us.
	On my first time caller line, you're on the air.
	Yes, now you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Calling from La Grande, Oregon.
	My name is DJ.
	DJ, huh?
	That's right.
	All right.
	I'm 20 years old and I just got off work.
	I listen to you all the time.
	Great show.
	I'm scared.
	I live in the town of La Grande.
	You're Eastern Oregon, aren't you?
	Eastern Oregon.
	That's the paper you read?
	Yeah.
	That's our local paper.
	This hits home, definitely.
	I'm not in a position where I'm not concerned about this yet.
	Did you read what their nickname was?
	No, it wasn't their nickname.
	Motto.
	What's their motto?
	It was, uh, Liberator of the Oppressed.
	Liberator of the Oppressed, huh?
	Yes.
	Liberator of the Oppressed.
	And I guess they were referring to the free men and people like the free men who were having problems with the IRS and government agencies, that kind of thing?
	I suppose so, only, uh... You know, at this point in time, I really don't see who is so oppressed.
	We have it pretty good here in our country, and I think people need to take a step back and look around and really understand.
	Man, I'm telling you, this is dangerous.
	This is very dangerous, Art.
	It scares me, it really does, but I have to take a position myself that says, I'm not going to get too excited about anything until they come to my front door and kick it down and come inside and hurt me or my family or take things away from us.
	Well, you know what?
	By then, it's kind of too late.
	Well, you know, Art, you're right, but I think if I did anything else, I'd be taking an offensive position, and that's not right.
	I hear you.
	Well, thank you.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	Yeah, I understand what he says.
	In other words, become proactive at this point.
	You're becoming offensive.
	You're going into an offensive posture and most people are like that, man.
	I mean, they're not going to do anything until somebody ends up at their door, huh?
	Oh, my God.
	Well, I'm shocked and I'm saddened, but I'm afraid I'm not surprised.
	I really did expect this sort of thing, and I knew in my heart that it was going on below the surface.
	I've been getting vibes of this now for months, so I knew it was going on.
	But this is insurrection, folks.
	This is insurrection.
	Pure D.
	You may not say the words overthrow the government, but I'll tell you what, if you begin attacking military installations, there's going to be a war.
	And I'll tell you a funny thing about wars, you know, I've been in them, I know a little about war.
	And that is, once they start, they're a hell of a lot easier to start than they are to stop.
	When blood flows, look at Ireland, look at the Middle East, look at Somalia, Look, anywhere you want to look where civil wars have raged for years, they sustain themselves.
	No matter what it is, it begins a war.
	Momentum and bloodletting and retaliation, all these things keep it going.
	It's a hell of a lot easier to get going and keep going than it is to stop once it's started, believe me.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	This is Jay.
	Oh, well, you made it back!
	I made it back.
	Alright, good.
	Um, Jay, I'm, you know, this scares the hell out of me.
	I mean, doesn't it scare you guys?
	If I, I'll tell you what, um, our ancestors from the Revolutionary War, did it scare them to establish freedom in this country?
	Right, I'm sure it did, and a lot of them were hung.
	A lot of the people who signed the Declaration of Independence swung from trees and had their lives ruined.
	Sir, we're ready to have this done.
	I can tell.
	I can hear that in your voice and I can read it in the story that I just got.
	My rights have been violated, sir.
	My rights have been violated.
	Are you going to tell me what kind of weapon I can own?
	Well, you're going to tell me what I can and I cannot say in public.
	What do you want to own, Jay?
	What kind of weapon do you want to own?
	That you can't, that is.
	Sir, I have been limited to the amount of rounds I can carry in my firearm.
	I'll tell you what I'm going to do, Jay.
	I'm coming up on a break.
	It's the bottom of the hour.
	I assume that you're on a phone now that you're fairly comfortable with, right?
	I'm on a phone.
	That I am sure that they have the technology to trace.
	I don't want to sit too long and be traced, if it is possible for me to be traced.
	Not that I distrust you, Art, because I listen to your program every day.
	Alright, well look, what I'd like to do is set up a debate between you and anybody else, somebody else.
	Are you willing to go for that?
	If I can be sworn to that I am not traced.
	I'm swearing to you that I certainly will not trace your line, and I wouldn't be part of anything that would.
	So as far as I know, you're perfectly safe.
	If I'm perfectly safe, I'm willing to debate anybody on this subject.
	All right, then I'll find somebody for you.
	In the meantime, you're not going to hear anything during the break.
	I'll just keep you on hold.
	Stand by, James.
	Sir, may I speak to you off the air?
	Yeah, hold on.
	I'm sorry.
	Why don't you ask him what's going on? Why don't you ask him if he starts to know?
	Don't say that you love me Just tell me that you love me
	Just tell me that you love me You
	Good morning, everybody.
	This should be a classic.
	I've got Jay, who says he's a member of the Eastern Oregon Militia.
	And I'm going to bring him up on one line.
	Jay, are you there?
	from may eight nineteen ninety six good morning everybody
	should be a classic i've got jay who says he's a member of the eastern oregon
	militia and uh... i'm gonna bring him up on one line j are you
	there author alright and uh...
	i have for you a debate partner j uh...
	The liberal's liberal from Southern California.
	His name is Charlie.
	Okay.
	And you both know what the topic is.
	You both know who the other person is.
	The air is yours.
	Sure.
	Why don't you go first?
	I don't have to go first.
	You know my position.
	Yeah, your position is the... Well, you know what, let me put it this way.
	Would you say that the act in Oklahoma, was that an act of terrorism in your opinion?
	I think that was an act of terrorism, yes sir, I do.
	Uh-huh.
	Well, then why wouldn't you say what you're endorsing is an act of terrorism?
	I'm being violated by the government, sir.
	You're being violated by the government.
	Do you understand that when you talk about the people who work for the government, I work for the government?
	Sir, what I understand is that I understand that every person in the United States of America is allowed to own whatever kind of firearm they want to own.
	I'm really getting sick and tired of morons like yourself talking about, oh, you know something?
	I should own whatever kind of weapon I want to own, and if I can't, I'm going to go out and kill some kind of police officer so that I can do that.
	Sir, did I ever say I was going to kill a police officer?
	Did I?
	Who do you think you are?
	Did I?
	Did I ever say I was going to go out and kill a police officer?
	Did I ever say I was going to kill anybody?
	Well, you declared war!
	No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
	Did I?
	Say that.
	Haven't you declared war?
	I don't understand this concept.
	You're just like Bill Clinton.
	You twist my words to mean what you want them to mean.
	You're just like the media.
	You want to twist my words to make them mean what you want them to mean.
	This is going to come as a major surprise to you, but in most wars people get killed, don't they?
	Don't they?
	Yeah, and worse people do get killed.
	Well then, if you declare war on somebody, that means you're going to kill them, don't it?
	Did I say I declared war?
	Did I say we declared war?
	No, I did not.
	Aren't you?
	Oh, so they have declared war on you, is that right?
	You bend my words whichever way you want to bend them.
	Just like your man, sitting in Washington, bends my words.
	So under no circumstances will you pick up a gun and, uh, actively go out and kill federal police officers.
	Is that correct?
	I will not go out and kill federal police officers.
	I will not.
	Okay.
	And then, uh... My father is a police officer, sir.
	Well, then what the heck do you guys... Why don't you guys have any respect for authority, then?
	I have respect for authority, but I also have respect for my United States Constitution, sir.
	Oh, you have respect for your United States Constitution?
	Yes, I do.
	Uh-huh.
	Well, let me tell you something.
	You look at those jerks in Montana.
	They don't have any respect for the Constitution.
	What they have respect for is themselves, and that's what you have to understand.
	They have respect for the mighty dollar and for getting as much as they can get, And basically screwing over their neighbors, and that's why their neighbors can't stand them.
	That's what the problem is there.
	In Southern California, where do you live?
	Where do I live?
	Yes, sir.
	In Riverside.
	Riverside.
	So you're making pretty good money.
	Yeah, I work two decent jobs.
	Yeah, I'm making pretty good money, yes.
	So you don't have to worry about them taking 30% of your money out of your pocket, do you?
	Well, who's them?
	The United States government.
	What is this thing you're talking about?
	We elect officials who set tax rates.
	If you don't like the tax rates, then elect somebody else to change them.
	I'd try to.
	Well, maybe if you didn't belong to the extremist moron party and you joined the Republican Party, maybe you could do things in a straight and normal way.
	Sir, that is the typical response I expect from a liberal.
	No, the typical response from an extremist like yourself is this.
	You can't call me an extremist. You don't know who I've been. All you know who I've been is on one issue, sir.
	No, no, no. This is what... The tax rates are too high.
	They're trying to take my guns, so obviously I don't have any power, so I need to get all my guns, and we need to get together and form this little army, and if anybody, we feel anybody's messing up with us, we're going to go out and kill them.
	Do you believe in your religion, or do you have a religion?
	Do I have a religion?
	Yes, sir.
	I tend to lead toward agnostic.
	Okay, you lead towards agnostic.
	So you have absolutely no belief in what our forefathers did to establish this good country, right?
	What the hell does... No, no, no, I want you to answer my question, sir.
	What the hell does some sort of weird Baptist religion have to do with what... So you're stereotyping me as a Baptist from the beginning, right?
	Is that what you're going to call me as a Baptist?
	I don't know what religion you are.
	What religion are you?
	It sounds to me like there's a little bit of prejudice there.
	No?
	Well, what was Jefferson?
	What religion was Thomas Jefferson?
	What religion was Thomas Jefferson, sir?
	You should know!
	You're the genius!
	You tell me.
	You seem to be the genius.
	He wasn't a Bible.
	You tell me.
	What religion was Thomas Jefferson?
	He was a deist.
	He wasn't a deist, excuse me.
	He wasn't a saying extremist Christian.
	Was he a theologian?
	Did you know that?
	Was he a theologian?
	Was he a theologian?
	Yes, sir.
	I don't believe he was a theologian.
	I'm done with this, man, because he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.
	Let me just say, here's the problem.
	You should not go around saying, this is a problem that I have with you guys.
	And number one, you should not be telling me what I have to say, because I have freedom of speech, sir.
	You have freedom to speak any way I wish, right?
	You do not have freedom to threaten.
	I'm not threatening anybody.
	Oh, come on, come on.
	You belong to a militia, don't you?
	Pardon me?
	Don't you belong to a militia?
	I belong to a militia.
	Why?
	Because I believe in what I believe in.
	Just like you belong to the Liberal Democratic Party.
	Why do you belong to the Democratic Liberal... Now, wait.
	Answer my question, sir.
	Why do you belong to the Liberal Democratic Party?
	Because they back what you believe in, right?
	I'm backing what I believe in.
	The Liberal Democratic Party, we don't feel that we need to carry around guns and ammunition because we think the system works.
	And obviously you don't think the system works, do you?
	You think that the system works?
	So if you call 911 right now because a man is breaking into your house with a gun, you are going to be saved, right?
	There's nobody going to kill you.
	And what you're basically saying is you do not feel that the system works.
	Therefore, it is necessary for you to go out and get some weapons and get some guns to protect yourself against the quote-unquote federal system.
	Isn't that correct?
	What I'm protecting myself is against a socialist system, which this president and his administration have set up, and which they are pushing, and which liberals like yourself, which want government to be involved in every decision that I make, want.
	Let me ask you a question.
	Under what circumstances would you actually use that gun to quote-unquote defend yourself against the federal government?
	Give me the exact circumstance so I'll know.
	I'm going to protect myself under anything which is deemed unconstitutional by my party.
	Uh-huh.
	And so if some guys in your group tell you that the government did something constitutional, you're going to get your gun and take action.
	Is that correct?
	Sir, I've got my own mind.
	I can make up my own mind.
	All right.
	Gentlemen, hold it a second.
	The story I've got here, the Associated Press story, says that if the freemen are attacked, if blood flows in Montana, that the Eastern Montana militia will attack military targets.
	Eastern Oregon, sir.
	Eastern Oregon will attack military targets, is that correct?
	That is not the only militia that's involved in this, sir.
	I understand, but that is basically a correct statement?
	That is a correct statement.
	Do you agree with that action?
	If that action is taken, would you agree with it?
	If that action is taken, I will do whatever I can to preserve what rights I have.
	You know, that's a very... You don't even have the nerve to sit there... Hold it a second.
	You don't even have the nerve to sit there and say, you know what?
	If they take that action, you're damn straight.
	Alright, I'm going to get my gun and I'm going to go out and I'm going to kill somebody and do whatever I have to do.
	Why don't you say that?
	You're damn straight.
	Oh, I finally squeezed that out of you!
	You are damn straight!
	You've never asked me that question and you are damn straight!
	Uh-huh.
	And you don't consider yourself a terrorist?
	I do not consider myself a terrorist.
	I consider myself a rebel.
	Uh-huh.
	And you being a rebel, you're going to get your gun and you're going to go out and kill some FBI agents?
	Is that what you're going to do?
	In 1776, John Hancock was a liberal, or was a rebel.
	He established what you're living under today, sir.
	He established what you're living under today, because he was a rebel.
	Let me tell you something, and you get this through your thick skull.
	If you pick up a gun, and you go after federal police officers, A, you're going to get your butt killed, and you deserve to get killed.
	Just like the Afghans did.
	Just like the Afghans did, right sir?
	What you are is a criminal, pure and simple.
	I'm not a criminal.
	I've never committed a criminal act in my life.
	And then you can wrap it around.
	You can say, oh, Thomas Jefferson, and how about the Constitution?
	Don't give me that crap.
	Common sense tells me when you kill innocent people, you are a criminal.
	Period.
	Period.
	I told you I believe.
	Common sense tells me when you kill innocent people, you are a criminal.
	Period.
	Period.
	Who have I killed?
	And you just got through saying...
	I've never killed anybody.
	You just got through saying a minute ago, didn't you, that you wouldn't kill a police
	Didn't you say that?
	I said that I would do what I've been asked to do to military posts.
	I never said I would kill anybody.
	Well, you just said a second ago that if they give the word, you're going to... Do I have somebody out there or what?
	Are you confused or something?
	I'm not confused, I just know that I'm beating a dead horse right here.
	You're going to twist my words, you're going to make me say what you want me to say, just like your buddy Bill Clinton is letting me finish!
	My buddy Bill Clinton, sitting in that damn White House right now, is doing to me, he is restricting my freedoms, he is restricting the freedoms of every Okay, it's Bill Clinton's fault.
	Bill Clinton's too liberal.
	I understand all that.
	All I want to know, and I really honestly want to know this, If these guys in Montana are viciously killed, and they burn down the building, and it's terrible, and they give the orders to you... Are the people in Waco massacred, sir?
	I'm just asking you, what are you going to do, sir?
	I've answered your questions for the last five minutes.
	Were the people in Waco massacred?
	Were they massacred?
	No, not in my opinion.
	Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying right there.
	I'm telling you I will do what my commanders tells me to do.
	All I want to know is a yes or no, if these people in Montan are in your opinion massacred,
	are you going to pick up your gun and take action?
	I'm telling you I will do what my commander tells me to do.
	And if your commander tells you to go out and pick...
	I'm telling you sir, and I'll leave it at this, what my commander tells me to do, I
	That's the bottom line!
	I don't need any more questions.
	I've told you my bottom line.
	You know what your bottom line is, John?
	I am done, sir.
	Your bottom line is that basically you will go out and kill anyone that you have to kill.
	If it's gotten to that point, you're just gonna get yourself killed and a bunch of innocent people killed.
	Period.
	I've got five words.
	you're looking at a revolution well you know
	you know what you know that i'm not talking to this person are let me tell
	you that you're looking at a group of nutcases a small group of nutcases that are going to go out
	get themselves killed they're not going to accomplish anything and they're going
	to make people who are honest on the right people like art bell
	who are on the right look extreme and everybody you know something the right
	the right the political spectrum is going to be severely hurt
	by extremists like yourself which i think is good but i think it's unfortunate that
	people like yourself go out and do that kind of thing but it's got to happen i
	guess So you're saying, Jay, this is going to be a revolution?
	That's what you're looking at, sir, yes.
	I'm done talking to Charlie.
	I don't want any questions you have to say, but if that man is going to sit there and he's going to call me what his party is accusing everybody else of, I'm too talkative, man.
	If he can talk to me civilly, And he can debate the issue without calling me an extremist, without calling me a fascist, without calling me whatever he wants to call me.
	Alright, I'll tell you what let's do.
	Let's reduce it to this.
	Let's talk about the Freeman in Montana.
	Jay, I really would like to hear from you why you think the Freeman need to be defended if necessary with arms and or attacks on the military or a revolution or whatever.
	Why is their protection justified, Jay?
	Sir, they have not been convicted of any crime.
	If I remember right, in the Constitution of the United States, it says that you are innocent until proven guilty.
	The mainstream media and other programs have these people deemed guilty without ever going to trial.
	Minister O.J.
	Simpson got to have his trial.
	Well, you're leaving out, you're leaving out... I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to Mr. Art Bell.
	Alright, I will allow Charlie to respond.
	We'll try to keep it civil.
	Charlie, try not to call names.
	Okay, the part that he's leaving out, had O.J.
	Simpson locked himself out, locked himself in a building, and put up a gun and said, you know what, you guys are not going to arrest me, period.
	You know what would have happened to O.J.
	Simpson?
	O.J.
	Simpson would have probably gotten killed.
	Is that these guys have not been convicted of anything.
	Sir, can I ask you a question?
	No, let me end my point.
	When you refused to be arrested... Can I ask you one question?
	Do you believe that O.J.
	Simpson was guilty or not guilty?
	He gave himself up to trial.
	Charlie, answer his question, Charlie.
	O.J.
	Simpson was found not guilty.
	No, I want to know what you believe, sir.
	I think he was guilty as hell.
	Okay, so he's walking free when he committed a heinous crime as he did.
	O.J.
	Simpson, this is a key point.
	This is a key point.
	It's very, very important.
	O.J.
	Simpson gave himself up to the police.
	He decided, you know what?
	So if I give myself up to the police, no matter who the hell I've killed, I'm free to go as I wish because I've given myself up to the police.
	Right, sir?
	Well, the problem with those guys is... No, right, sir?
	Have those guys around here given themselves up?
	Charlie, answer his question.
	Which is what?
	So if I go out and I kill as many Military people as I possibly can.
	If I give myself up to police, I'm free to go.
	Just like O.J.
	Simpson was.
	No, if you give yourself up to police, then there's a trial.
	They'll probably find your butt guilty, and you'll probably get the death penalty.
	But you gave yourself up to police.
	The guys in Montana... That's what I'm telling you.
	There's a double standard here when it comes...
	When it comes to people that stand on the way that I stand and the way that Charlie wants to see that they stand.
	All I want to see is these guys.
	You know what?
	These guys in Montana... You said OJ Simpson was guilty, correct, sir?
	Let's say... No, let's say they're innocent.
	Let's say the guys in Montana... No, I'm not asking you if he was innocent, sir.
	Let's say the guys in Montana are innocent.
	Let's say they're all innocent, okay?
	All we're asking is that the guys in Montana give themselves up and go to trial.
	If you refuse to give yourself up... Sir, why don't you put them... Why don't you give them a jury of their peers, such as myself, just like O.J.
	Simpson.
	You can't do it until they give themselves up.
	Why don't they give themselves up?
	Alright, that's a fair question, Jay.
	They could give themselves up and surely they would get a trial, correct?
	Correct.
	But whose jury would they have?
	Would they have a jury of people that think like-minded as me, as O.J.
	Simpson did?
	Or would they have people that are not like-minded, like myself, like Charlie?
	In other words, they don't trust the jury system, Charlie.
	Oh, I don't know.
	Maybe Jeff Dahmer should have gotten a whole bunch of, uh... Don't even compare!
	This movement to Jeffrey Dahmer, who slaughtered children and raped children, don't even compare them!
	That is not fair!
	That is not even fair!
	Don't you even compare!
	Don't you even compare!
	That is a totally different story, sir!
	All you want to do is go out and shoot police officers.
	That's what you want to do.
	Don't you even compare.
	Let me tell you something.
	That is a totally different story, sir.
	When it comes to a child who is innocent, who is under 10 years old, is being raped
	and slaughtered by a man.
	That's what you want to do.
	I am not raping and slaughtering anybody under 10 years old.
	No, you're just going out and killing innocent police officers when you get the word from up above that it's okay.
	You go out and blast.
	At least I'll say this for Jeffrey Dahmer.
	He was crazy.
	You're not crazy.
	You're just going to get the word and go out and blast police officers, aren't you?
	You have absolutely no idea.
	Oh, you have absolutely no idea.
	You keep in your mind.
	What the hell do you want to keep in your mind, sir?
	You just said that you'll do whatever your commander tells you to do.
	Now, that's what you just said.
	That's what you said.
	All right, you two.
	We're going to hold it right there.
	And I wanted to give everybody an idea of what's going on out there.
	And I think they've got that idea.
	We'll be right back.
	Alright, well that about does it for this half hour, and I'm not sure where you'd go after all that anyway.
	So we'll be back in most markets in a moment, and you can react to what you've just heard if you wish.
	cursed to live in interesting times I'm going to be a bad guy for a while.
	I'm going to be a bad guy for a while.
	to Art Bell somewhere in time.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from May 8th, 1996.
	The things that happen in the middle of the night, huh?
	Good morning, everybody!
	The largest live overnight talk show in America, in fact, the world.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Good to be here.
	If you don't have a chill running down your spine and the hair on the back of your neck isn't standing up, then you don't have a spine and you don't have hair.
	God, are we in trouble.
	So that you understand what we're talking about this morning
	I'm going to kind of update you here Associated Press story cleared the wire, I don't know, about an hour ago.
	Associated Press.
	Members of the Eastern Oregon Militia say they are now prepared to declare war on the U.S.
	military if the Freeman standoff in Montana turns violent.
	Walt Hasse, who describes himself as legal advisor to the militia, says there are no civilian targets.
	He says the targets will be military.
	The FBI issued a nationwide alert to law enforcement agencies on April 23rd, warning of a militia, quote, war plan, end quote.
	Hasse says the Eastern Oregon Militia has a plan called Operation Clean Sweep to defend the freemen, protect their rights.
	Hasse warns if federal agents storm in and people are killed in Montana, there's going to be retribution.
	He says militia members won't have to go to Montana.
	He says there are military targets in other states.
	At the same time, he says, the public has nothing to fear, says the militia is not involved in terrorism.
	Now, from the Herald and News, Klamath Falls, Oregon, Sunday, May 5th, I have that FBI bulletin.
	And it reads as follows.
	The alleged militia war warning That prompted the FBI to issue an alert to law enforcement agencies contained a suggested list of targets of opportunity, including federal satellite uplinks and communication centers, military fuel depots, military and law enforcement storage facilities and aircraft on the ground, law enforcement communication centers, troop equipping and staging centers,
	Internal Revenue Service Record Facilities, Senior Federal Law Enforcement Officials, Federal Reserve Board Governors, Media Installations that are, quote, not providing the people with what's really going on, end quote, lists ABC, CBS, CNN, and NBC.
	Continuing, the Militia Plan concludes, quote, these are just ideas.
	There are many other targets of opportunity.
	Things that must, in fact, be protected.
	On the list of things to be protected, loyal federal, state, and local officials.
	We need them, it says, when this is all over.
	Secure public water, sewer, and power facilities.
	Things that would otherwise disrupt the civilian population.
	Move to protect outspoken members of the community.
	It also calls for seizing jails and sweeping civilian gun stores
	and confiscating weapons and then it adds at the end, be sure to leave a receipt for
	what you take.
	A couple of faxes.
	Dear Art, on tonight's local news, it was reported that here in central Illinois, A group of 30 militia members calling themselves Freeman Sympathizers have filed liens on the properties of several local government officials.
	They claim this is going on all around the country unknown to the officials involved until a check is done on the property for such purposes as loans as soon as the militia members try to call in liens The police will attempt to arrest them.
	Liberals sue in Illinois are this, hey militia wake up!
	Hi Art, if the militia showed any hint of intelligence they would realize the futility of their beliefs.
	This is obvious by looking at both outcomes of militia activity against the U.S.
	military.
	One, if the militia engages the military in the U.S.
	They'll more than likely be crushed, too.
	Should, by some fluke, they get the upper hand on the U.S.
	military, it would leave this country wide open for attacks from other nations.
	It would be a feeding frenzy between every nation that's ever been hostile to the U.S.
	The militia would be incapable of defending the U.S.
	from foreign military aggression.
	Either way, America loses.
	If the militia wants to make America work, they'd better learn to have their revolution in the voting booth, not in the streets of America.
	Well, that's what I've been warning right along.
	Don't you understand?
	If this occurs, if a war, an insurrection begins, we all lose.
	One way or the other, we lose.
	If the government wins, we lose.
	If the militia, unlikely, wins, we lose.
	If there's ongoing conflict, we lose.
	If there's a war, and there's retribution that begins from both sides, we lose.
	If this begins, you try and figure a way that we win, because I can't.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning, Art.
	This is Gary in Phoenix.
	Hello, Gary.
	Listening to that militia member, it shows exactly how ridiculous their thinking is.
	Just like your facts just said, if they're so grounded in the Constitution, then why aren't they taking the legal constitutional means to change the system that they don't like?
	Well, you heard the militia guy say, well, I tried that, and it didn't work.
	In other words, the people he voted for didn't get elected, and so, as far as he's concerned, then, the system does not work.
	Well, if they have so many supporters around the country, it seems like with all their latest actions that they should be getting enough support now to get their people in.
	Well, you would think so, wouldn't you?
	But I guess, finally, you know, when you form these groups, there's a certain cycle of life to these groups, I think.
	And they form, and they originally start out to be constitutional, and they're going to go out and get involved in the community, and blah, blah, blah, blah.
	After a while, things aren't going their way.
	They get more and more frustrated, and cynical, and paranoid.
	And pretty soon, the conclusion inevitably is, the system does not work.
	It's got to be overturned right well, and you know when you listen and it sickens me to have to agree with
	Charlie, but I totally agreed with Charlie when you listen to their reasoning
	And then when you try to hit him up on any solid issue to try to get him to answer all he did all he did
	But sit there and yell back at Charlie You know and I don't know even the lady that you had on
	last night that debated on this issue Yes, she just her view of reality seems so off base that
	I mean, at first, when this all started, I actually did, like most of the American public, I felt some sympathy towards these guys and thought, okay, they're trying to draw public attention, they're trying to not let happen to them what happened to the people in Waco.
	Well, once they got their attention, Then they could have come out under the protection of the media and the whole nation watching them.
	Now they're just letting this go on and on.
	And, you know, I think this is going to set a dangerous precedent in this country.
	If we keep letting groups like this hold the federal government hostage and at bay like this, you know, we're going to end this tomorrow or the next day.
	The next one is going to be next week.
	And how long are we going to let this go on?
	I don't know.
	My sense is From what I'm hearing this morning and reading, it can't go on much longer.
	And if the federal government allows this to go on very much longer, I can clearly see what's going to happen.
	Right.
	Well, you know, I think, you know, I am really, really against any kind of regulation against any kind of group meeting.
	You know, we have the right to assembly and all that.
	But these groups, I think they're quickly moving to being classified as subversive groups.
	I mean, they are Actually disrupting, you know, the way that our country is operating.
	I mean, you know, now we're trying to be careful about what we say, what the federal government says, because they're worried about setting one of these groups off.
	That's real dangerous.
	We're starting to look like a third world country where we're worried about, you know, all those, you know, ragtag groups that, you know, we have to worry about what we're going to say because they may rise up against us.
	Well, if you were... That's not the America that I grew up in.
	Yes, sir.
	If you were in charge right now, it's been going on six, going soon into seven weeks.
	What would you do?
	Well, you know, actually, I think with what we learned from Waco, where, you know, we can't go in there with tanks, okay?
	We need to tell these guys, we need to bring whoever we need to bring in there.
	If it needs to be Janet Reno walking up the front walk of this place saying, look, It's over.
	Let's sit right here.
	Let's talk about it.
	Let's have media cameras, whatever you guys want.
	Let's end this thing.
	You know, I don't think we need to go in with guns ablaze.
	And we know we've already seen that doesn't work.
	Everybody on both sides is going to get hurt.
	We need to sit down with these people.
	They're obviously looking for attention and cover.
	They don't want to be They don't want to turn into another Waco.
	So go in with Dan Rather, whoever they want to go in, and let it all be open.
	Well, I think that's the only way that we're going to end this.
	You know, as you know, Bogreitz went in and tried to mediate.
	He finally ended up in discussing, look, this is going to end badly.
	These people have an ideology that's pretty close to those folks down in Waco.
	They're not going to give up.
	They are prepared to shoot.
	And once the bullets start flying on this one, I don't see how we're going to get it stopped.
	Right.
	Well, this is scary stuff.
	Yes, it is.
	And I hope that, you know, we somehow through this can be a learning process.
	And, you know, the militias and the federal government can learn how to work together on this.
	Because, like I said, I don't want this to set a precedent where Every month, it's the latest militia group hold up somewhere.
	I know.
	Well, thank you very much for the call.
	Okay, have a good night.
	Take care.
	I'd rather deal with a loose pack of chupacabras.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	This is Jim.
	Hi, Jim.
	I have a couple of comments I'd like to include for you that really fit in with your discussion with With the militia discussion, and also I'd like to point out an advertisement that you do, which is regards to the currency trade and those kinds of things.
	The reason why that problem exists is actually embedded in a Senate report that many people need to read.
	And that Senate report is 93549.
	is 93549. It specifically was done in 1973 and it is.
	The Emergency Powers Statute.
	And it specifically talks about what's happened since 1933.
	And that is the real issue of what is needing to be understood of what has happened to this country.
	You think it's worth having a civil war about, sir?
	No, it's not.
	The war was already declared in 1933 by FDR.
	We were all declared enemies, number one, because the wording in the Trading with the Enemy Act was changed and adopted and conformed to the suggestions of the bankers.
	The bankers?
	That's correct.
	And it's in the Senate report.
	There are no hidden things that are out there about this process.
	So since 1933, you would maintain, we have been, in effect, at war with our government?
	We are in a declared status of national emergency.
	And that is exactly what is enforced through to today.
	And most people don't understand how that all fits with what's going on.
	I understand exactly what you're saying, but And I've heard it many times from many people.
	But if you think that what you just said justifies attacks on the military, justifies people doing what the freemen are doing, so-called freemen, not free, justifies Issuing liens and writing hot checks and all the rest of it, that kind of illegal, obviously illegal activity, then I think you're cracked.
	And I think you don't understand what it is that you're about to bring on.
	Oh, well, a state of emergency has existed since 1933.
	You start attacking the military in this country, you're going to see a state of emergency.
	You're going to bring on exactly what you say you fear.
	Overnight.
	Really want that to happen?
	Well, I would say everybody involved in this better take a big damn deep breath.
	Think really hard about what they're doing.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hi Art, I'm glad to get through tonight.
	There's about four sentences for the militia guys up there in Oregon that they ought to take to heart.
	Number one is, The government can engineer a group to do almost anything it wants to do.
	We can derail Chilean governments and military groups in Chile and Panama.
	And the fact that somebody is steering them towards attacking our military, to me, means that somebody's probably steering them that way.
	Number two is, in the Western Militia of Washington, they had a guy in there who was working himself near the top.
	He was number four in the militia.
	They happened to have access to a policeman who checked his fingerprints.
	Turned out he was a full-time fed agent.
	And he was advocating action.
	They threw him out.
	Three weeks later, he showed up in a Kentucky militia, and he's still a full-time Fed agent.
	Well, I'm sure that's going on.
	I'm sure the Feds have agents in there spying, and I'm sure the militias are spying back, and they're all getting a little more paranoid about each other, and I think this whole thing's getting close to coming down, and I don't like I don't think that the government is trying to bring this on.
	I'm not saying that there aren't agents that are part of sting operations that seem to be encouraging it all.
	Because I'm sure that is going on.
	But as far as really trying to bring this whole thing to a head, so they can have a state of emergency, so that they can have martial law, no, I don't think they want that.
	It would cripple the economy of this country.
	And you know what people say?
	I'm going to hold you over for the break.
	People, just stay right there.
	People think the government wants to bring this on.
	I don't think so.
	Follow the money trail.
	If we start having a revolution in this country, our economy is going to hell.
	Nobody benefits from that.
	The power of the mind is the power of the heart.
	The mind is a tool of the mind.
	Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM, from May 8, 1996.
	Sir, you're back on the air.
	Thank you for holding on.
	Yes, sir, Art.
	We can beat Clinton at the ballot box.
	I tell you, ten days before the last election, when the news media was saying we were only going to get five or ten seats, I worked strongly with the Republican Party.
	We had a scientific study done nationwide.
	We kept it a secret, but we knew we could win both houses 10 days before the election.
	Jimmy the Greek, before he died, in the April newsletter, the Financial Strategic Investment Letter, was given 8 to 5 odds that Clinton would be forced out of office before the election.
	And that went nationwide.
	So I'd encourage these people to put on their good suits, go door to door, get people signed up for the conservative cause, And get him down there to vote, because we still have a lot more on our side than what the news media's putting out.
	But don't fall into the trap of making any rash judgment.
	Wait till after the election, because I don't think he's going to make it there.
	There's 40 to 60 more people going to be indicted in Whitewater, and one of us getting ready to talk in the next week or two.
	That may well be the case, my friend.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	Glad you got to say what you wanted to.
	That may well be.
	But right now it looks a little bleak.
	I don't know about any secret surveys, I know about the public ones, showing the President with about a 31 point lead over Bob Dole.
	And should anything near that be maintained, which it will not, coming into the election, I mean, there's going to be closure.
	Not nearly enough, probably, but there's going to be, it's going to close, of course, as we head toward Election Day, but I'll tell you.
	Doesn't look good.
	And if the margin is big enough, it may well be that Mr. Clinton will bring with him liberals into the House for a majority there.
	That's entirely possible.
	Less likely, the Senate, but entirely possible.
	Well, let's take care of a little bit of business right now, and then we'll go roaring to the top of the hour.
	Sound of a rocket launching.
	Here we go again.
	First time caller line.
	You're on the air.
	Hello, Bob from Santee.
	Hi, Bob.
	How are you this evening?
	A little worried?
	Uh, yeah.
	Well, you know, I think that the country has a lot to worry about.
	Yeah, me too.
	I think that these people are serious, and I think they exist throughout the country.
	Yep.
	And it's actually my belief that there may be random acts of kindness starting to happen all over the country.
	As a matter of fact, I believe that those acts may have already started to occur and the government is trying to keep it out of the paper.
	Well, that would be understandable.
	You know, I know that your program has offered a forum for debate and I think that the most important thing is that the government offer a forum for debate and allow this thing to be publicized and televised.
	Well, I don't know.
	I don't know.
	I mean, if I were in the government, or a spokesman, and I knew that there had been some attacks on military installations or what have you, I would be hard-pressed to know whether I'd be better off publicizing it or keeping it quiet.
	It seems to me like there's a lot of people on edge just waiting for the first shot heard round the country, you know?
	So I'm not sure which is right.
	Well, you know, the people in Waco, at that trial, the jury forewoman, she cried and said that the wrong people were on trial there, and then the judge threw 40 years at the people that were on trial.
	Yeah, I know.
	I know, but what's going on in Montana is not Waco.
	Well, you know, there is a chord of similarity.
	Between the three groups, Weaver, Waco and the Freeman.
	Well, they're standoffs.
	That's the similarity.
	Beyond that, I don't see that the people at Waco, nor do I see that what occurred up at Ruby Ridge, it's not the same.
	I mean, here we've got people that are clearly, simply, In my opinion, thugs violating the law, and writing hot checks, and scheming, and trying to do by sleight of hand what they couldn't do with sweat of the brow.
	Well, what they're doing is much the same as what the government has done with sleight of hand and what's called sophistry in language and legalese.
	Another thing is all three groups... Well, since when, even if what you say is true, Since when do two wrongs make a right?
	Well, you know, it comes to a point where you have a decision to make as to whether you want to submit to this administration's tyranny or the next one.
	You know, what are the choices?
	Tyranny.
	Tyranny, huh?
	Well, you know... Look, I know tyranny.
	I've seen tyranny around the world.
	I've been to nations where there's real tyranny.
	There is a government here.
	Yes, there are regulations and laws and yes, I understand they make people feel oppressed and sometimes the IRS goes too far and the BATF runs in on somebody and does something they shouldn't have done.
	But it's not real tyranny, sir.
	Not the way it is in the rest of the world.
	Well, Art, this isn't the rest of the world.
	This is America.
	Yeah, that's right.
	And America stands for freedom.
	And then when the politicians deprived people of their freedom
	and by trickery and by using the court system as a as a uh... but that's a problem
	for people with uh... it becomes tyranny
	i think that intelligent people should sit down and look at relative levels of tyranny
	or oppression or lack of freedom
	uh... before they decide they're going to turn it all over because i'm telling
	I'm telling you right now, on the other side of whatever happens, it ain't going to be
	Well, you know, one last thing, Art.
	These people teach that we're living in Babylon.
	And they're not talking about the nation of Babylon, they're talking about the system of Babylon.
	I know.
	And it appears that we might be.
	All right, sir.
	We need to change it.
	All right.
	I sure don't agree with you, at least in With respect to the manner of that change.
	Oh, God, this is frightening.
	Well, you know, nothing's forever.
	Huh?
	Maybe that applies to America, too.
	Nothing's forever.
	Why do we think that we deserve to go on if this is what it's been reduced to?
	Maybe we don't.
	We've been lucky, huh?
	We've had it for a while.
	But I think it's about to slip through our hands.
	That's what I think.
	But it's been good.
	Wes to the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Yeah, how you doing, Art?
	I'm doing.
	Real good.
	You know, people don't realize sometimes what a little anger over injustice, what they think can cause.
	In other words, what I'm saying is, you take the people in Oregon.
	That one guy I was talking about, his rights have been violated because of the restriction on his guns.
	But the restrictions on guns does not mean you need to die over that.
	Well, you know, what comes to my mind is you don't know what you've got until it's gone.
	That's right.
	You know, I was in the military.
	I've been in 27 different countries, just like you were.
	It's been a lot of different countries.
	And we've seen where you don't have the freedom that we have in the United States.
	You know, we might disagree with the government and power at that time.
	That's why we have elections, and of course we have Republicans and Democrats, and sometimes... You know, you ask these people.
	I ask them, well, what about the vote?
	Well, I tried that.
	Well, my candidate didn't get elected.
	So, it's like, I give up.
	You know, the only way we're going to change this is barrel of gun.
	That's true, and that's sometimes what people think about, but they don't really think it out.
	Sometimes people will do anything or make any excuse to have a little battle or a little fight and try to act like they're more powerful than they are.
	Just like our games we have.
	Little battles, little fights have a way of becoming big ones.
	And right now, everything's supercharged.
	The government's supercharged, FBI, BATF, everybody's sitting on eggs, you know.
	And these militia people, They're sittin' on eggs.
	Everybody's sittin' on the fence.
	One shot, the wrong shot, the wrong place.
	Easy to get started, hard to stop.
	That's true, that's very true, sir.
	Thank you very much.
	Thank you.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Oh, Art?
	Hello.
	Yeah, hi.
	Kevin from Kansas City.
	Yes, sir.
	You guys have already gone off the air here.
	Right, about 15, 20 minutes ago.
	Yeah, well I'm glad to finally get in.
	Yeah, calling about the Oregon terrorist group.
	Yes, sir.
	Well, I don't give them too much of a chance.
	There's been small pockets of rebellions throughout our history, and all of them have been crushed severely.
	He said, now you can either choose to believe it or not believe it, but he said, we're not the only ones.
	There are groups, similar groups, ready all over the country.
	Now, that may easily be an exaggeration, but it doesn't take much, and a lot of revolutions have begun with very small groups, numerically, percentage-wise, very small groups.
	Well, they say that they're not going to attack civilian targets, but... Yeah, right.
	Yeah, that's what I say, too.
	First chance they get.
	I mean, these people in Montana or whatever, they've been given this long to just give up.
	They haven't.
	And Bo Brice, I think, is also... Bo Brice.
	Yeah, part of the militia movement, if memory serves me correct.
	And if he can't get them to surrender, then, you know... Well, actually, if you recall his words when he came out, at one point he just gave up.
	He said, it's not going to work, it's going to end badly.
	These people's ideology is very close in many ways to that of the people in Waco.
	In other words, it's going to end in fire and death.
	And maybe that is the way it's going to end.
	If it ends that way, then apparently there's all these people who are ready to step in and start attacking military targets, they say.
	Well, I've read some militia material, and from what I understand, and if any militia members are still up and listening and can confirm this or not, any citizen can call a militia.
	If this is true, Then the people in the surrounding town, all they have to do is say, hey, we're forming a militia.
	Now, if these fringe groups want to say, well, hey, you know, they formed a militia, went in and took it.
	Then we're going to declare war on the government.
	Then, you know, hey, go for it.
	But you're just going to get your tails blown off.
	All right, sir.
	I appreciate it.
	Boy, I'll tell you this wears you down.
	I feel worn down after the show this morning.
	Worn down.
	Discouraged.
	It's like you see it coming.
	It's like, uh, I used to live in Amarillo, Texas.
	It's in the panhandle of Texas, up in the middle of the panhandle.
	Amarillo Air Force Base.
	And we used to have these storms in Amarillo.
	And you would look up and there'd be a blue sky.
	And then to the horizon, there'd be clouds that would build to 50, 60,000 feet.
	And there'd be a storm front headed toward you.
	And ahead of this storm front, there would be a solid red wall.
	It was terrifying.
	Many times they sprouted tornadoes, you know, I used to chase the damn things.
	But I feel like one of those solid red walls is headed at us right now, and I've got about as much chance to stop it as I did in Amarillo.
	It's one of those things that you sit back, it's like a spectator sport, you know, you sit back and you watch it.
	And it will inevitably reach you and come sweeping across you, and you've got about as much chance of stopping what's about to occur as you do one of those red walls.
	First-time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello?
	Hello!
	I'm a first-time caller?
	Yes, sir.
	Okay, first-time callers, turn your radio off.
	Yes, sir, turn your radio off.
	It's off.
	Okay, good.
	Go ahead.
	Hello.
	We don't screen calls.
	You're on the air.
	Okay.
	Art, this is Jim of Spokane.
	Hi, Jim.
	And I'm a first-time caller.
	I really don't want to talk about the issues that have been discussed tonight.
	I would like to just make a comment or two about the so-called debate that you had.
	Well, that is the issue we're talking about.
	Whether the militia has a proper stand or, you know, I really am unopinionated about that.
	The one thing I think we could have done for this fellow Jay in La Grande tonight was to, if nothing else, had you talk with him or had a reasonable person debate him.
	Jay didn't say he was in La Grande.
	He said he belonged to that group.
	Well, he was calling from an unidentified point in Oregon.
	Exactly.
	To me, though, he sounded like a very reasonable man, and certainly didn't... Reasonable?
	What's reasonable?
	Excuse me, all right, fine.
	The name-calling aside... The name-calling is the primary thing.
	No, it isn't.
	Nothing was... No, it isn't.
	No, no, no.
	No, it isn't the primary thing.
	The primary thing is a plan to attack the military.
	Well, if you're going to have a debate, name-calling certainly doesn't get you to first page.
	Look, why don't you forget the name-calling and worry about what's really important?
	What's really important is this group out there that says if the free men are moved on, they're going to begin attacking military targets.
	Exactly.
	But what you tried to arrange tonight was someone to debate this fella.
	And we certainly didn't have that.
	You're worried about peanuts.
	I'm not worried about peanuts.
	The elephant's about to step on you and you're worried about peanuts.
	I realize how disastrous this could be.
	But the thing of it is that if we want to have a debate and listen and find out more about their position, Look, look, look.
	I don't control these debates.
	I have a situation where I stand back and I let people go at each other on the air.
	I'm not changing it.
	So if you're bitching about the fact that they were calling each other names, or that Charlie called them names, you're wasting air time.
	Well, I think that you wasted air time having that debate.
	Well, goodbye.
	I don't care what you think.
	You know?
	I don't give a rat's behind what you think.
	I conduct my show the way I conduct it.
	And I give people air time to flat go at it.
	Alright?
	If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen, or in your case, turn off the radio.
	I don't care.
	I conduct this program the way I conduct it so that things are heard here that aren't heard elsewhere.
	If you don't like that, go elsewhere.
	And I presume that's exactly what you'll do.
	Don't let the door hit you in the butt.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi Art, this is Slick Willy from Berkeley.
	Well, I'm not, well, it's my little nickname out here.
	Anyways, just because the militias say they're going to attack military targets, it doesn't mean that they're actually going to attack the military.
	They might consider any federal office or building out there a military target.
	Well, I've got a list.
	I read it.
	Oh, I missed it.
	You missed it, huh?
	Yeah.
	Well, alright, let's see what you think about a couple of the items, alright?
	Okay.
	The list includes Federal Satellite Uplinks, Telecommunications Centers, Military Fuel Depots, Military and Law Enforcement Storage Facilities, Aircraft on the Ground, Law Enforcement Communications Centers, Troop Equipping and Staging Centers, Internal Revenue Records Facilities, Senior Federal Law Enforcement Officials, Federal Reserve Board Governors, and Media Installations.
	Media?
	Yeah.
	Media.
	ABC, CBS, CNN, NBC.
	Media.
	Hmm.
	Hmm.
	Yeah, they're really kind of losing it out there.
	Hmm.
	They are.
	And, I don't know, I just really don't understand why these people... Oh, they're going to defend these, uh... Oh, it's my cat.
	Sorry.
	Oh, that's alright.
	These people out here in, um... You have cats?
	Yeah, I have a cat.
	How many?
	Oh, just one?
	Just one cat.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Um, turn, turn your radio up for a minute.
	Um... I hardly ever tell people, I never tell people to turn radios up.
	Can you turn yours up?
	Yeah, wait, let me catch the cat really quick.
	No, don't catch a cat, don't catch a cat.
	Just turn the radio up.
	She's, she's, the radio's in the other room.
	Oh.
	Hold on.
	That's too bad, alright, well I'll hold.
	Okay, I'm right there.
	Okay, you got your radio up?
	Yep, got it.
	Alright, well...
	Now, now, let your cat hear that.
	Hold your radio up.
	Okay.
	Take a couple seconds here.
	I can't hear you, radio.
	You can't hear it?
	No.
	Oh.
	The cat ran into a little, uh, we got a little cage out here with a little bedding in there.
	Yeah.
	On those little carriers.
	Yeah.
	Oh well.
	Oh well.
	Uh, normally that sound will drive a cat to, uh, the edge of madness.
	Uh, listen.
	I'm afraid the program's over, and frankly, it's just as well that it is.
	I'm going to give you the honors from Berkeley.
	Of all places, you get the honors tonight.
	You know what they are?
	Good night, America!
	That's it.
	Yeah, in more ways than one.
	Well, all right.
	Thank you all.
	We'll do this again tomorrow morning when I've had a chance to recover from the high desert.
	Where people still have time to think.

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