Art Bell dissects the 1996 Freemen standoff, where Montana’s attorney general rejected their all-male jury demand tied to Latin testes ("testicles"), while federal agents searched Unibomber Ted Kaczynski’s cabin for a hit list targeting airline executives and geneticists. Callers debated animal rights—Leonard from South Dakota dismissed cats as soulless, but Bell countered with moral outrage over torture—while Stewart Best linked Kaczynski’s theories to chaos mathematics. Lori from Hawaii shared precognitive dreams preventing disasters, and Don Zaidle argued technology isn’t unnatural, though society may fail to adapt. Early UFO warnings in 1950 mirrored modern fears of science’s societal collapse. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and good morning.
From the Tahitian and Hawaiian islands in the west to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, east, south, into Hammock Country, I call it now, Belize, and farther south into South America, north to the Pole.
This is Coast to Coast AM, live talk radio throughout the nighttime.
And who knows what lies ahead?
Only those with fast fingers know.
You guys.
Open line, unscreened talk radio.
Now, let me begin by reading you the top of a business card from somebody named LR, and I won't give the last name in Trinity, Texas.
It is unique.
He sent it to me in the mail.
His business card says at the top, no business, no plans, no worries, no money, no future.
Too healthy to beg, too lazy to work.
That's his business card.
Then down at the bottom it says, ain't got much, don't want anything, ain't mad at nobody, ain't running for nothing, and waiting for the third of the month.
I mean, even in their own minds, I wonder why women couldn't be part of the jury.
Montana's attorney general said, quote, we are not going to establish a separate justice system just for these people, end quote.
The reporter from Soldier of Fortune says he thinks it's going to be a long-term standoff.
Do you believe these men have a right to, in effect, demand their own justice system, an all-male common law grand jury?
They want to be judged by their own, by their own rules, in their own so-called justice system, which I'm sure would render them a verdict of, no, you don't have to pay taxes.
No, you don't have to obey laws.
Yes, it's okay to threaten local officials who are not doing what you constitutionally think they ought to be.
See, they think they haven't done a thing wrong.
They want a jury that will say, basically, you can put a lien on somebody's property, some official you don't like, and then write checks against it.
So I guess I'm just asking, do you think their demands are reasonable that they be judged by their own system, their own grand jury made up of all male constituents for some indecipherable reason?
Do they think only a man could understand and judge the concepts that they proffer?
Interesting.
Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, the accused suspects in the Oklahoma City bombing, want different trials.
Their attorneys want to separate them, say they plan to use very different strategies of defense.
Twas the first day of hearings in Denver since the trial was moved from Oklahoma City.
The two suspects were moved pre-dawn, in the dark, in a convoy to court.
The judge in the case delayed a ruling on a defense request for CIA documents that McVeigh's attorney says they hope will show that terrorists or white supremacists are responsible for the bombing and not their clients.
Make that plural.
The government is going to be reluctant to turn these over.
It says basically you're going to have to take our word for it.
As more and more people turn to violence to achieve their goals, whether it's threaten violence by the free men so-called in Montana, the bombing of Oklahoma City, or now the Unibomber.
This is bomb central.
Federal agents continued a painstaking search of Unabomber suspect Theodore Kaczynski's cabin Tuesday as evidence mounted higher and higher, linking the reclusive former math professor with the 17-year bombing campaign.
They found in his cabin something called a hit list.
And his hit list included airline executive, geneticists, and computer industry in about that order.
Ten of the 16 bombs that he set off were in those areas.
So evidence continues to mount against the Unibomber.
This piece of email, Art, the only time I read the Unibomber's manifesto was on the Internet.
I received his message through the media that he feels he's contributing through the media he feels is contributing to the demise of our culture.
I too believe in disastrous results of the quickening, though I think technology is not the means to the end.
People's attitudes toward the nature of life will cause the end.
We have it all backwards.
Ironically, the end of the quickening will be nature taking it all back, I'm sure.
And while we're on the subject of nature taking something back, a volcano long dormant on the island of Montserrat is not dormant anymore.
It is belching steam and smoke.
Scientists say the big one may be about to let go.
The area has been pretty well evacuated.
Now, you'd have to be hiding somewhere to not see that Mother Earth obviously is up to something.
Now, there are volcanoes all over the place, either threatening to come alive, simmering, or seemingly just about to end dormancy, a long period of dormancy, and there's something moving around down there.
Hot lava, pressure, change is in the wind.
Can't you feel it?
Beating of the illegal aliens in Southern California, Riverside, was added to today.
or that which we saw was added to, with audio tapes recorded by a highway patrol guy who was there.
And they seem to show the officers, as they beat these people, which began right away, were screaming, get down again and again and again, get down, get down on the ground, they said.
There was no Spanish tried, these people did not speak English, until after the beating.
The CHP patrol officer said, Those SOs, meaning sheriff's office guys, were wailing on those guys.
All I did was grab mine and throw them to the ground.
Then he said there are cameras here, referring no doubt to the choppers circling overhead, but we didn't have any part of it.
Now, I think that the audio tape proves the attack was not racist.
There were no epitaphs being hurled, just night sticks coming down.
So it was not racist.
They weren't saying this or that about them as they beat them.
Still, when you see it, it seems, even with the audio, to be entirely excessive.
As you know, the two beaten have filed a $10 million lawsuit.
It's a lot of money.
Here is a piece of email I received on this subject.
Art, I'm a deputy sheriff in Orange County, California.
I work a split shift.
Usually get to listen to your A.M. Coast Coast show for about an hour on the way home, 2:30 in the morning to 3:30.
First, I want to say I enjoy it.
Now I have a what-if for you.
With all the problems with illegal immigration, in particular from Mexico, what if America took over Mexico by whatever means necessary and made it part of the U.S. A 51st state, if you will.
With all the money we spend trying to help Mexicans out of the U.S., it seems it would benefit everyone on both sides of the border if we took them in.
Land, resources, and all.
What do you think?
Well, I've never thought that was a good idea.
And if you think we have a southern border problem now, if the real southern border of the U.S. were terminating in Central America and we were as lax about enforcing our border as we have been with our present southern borders, our problems would have just begun.
As you know, Americans are evacuating Liberia, formed a couple hundred years ago by freed U.S. slaves.
They are now in a full-blown civil war, and our military is trying to get the Americans out.
A lot of them are holed up in the embassy.
A lot of them have yet to get to the embassy.
Tobacco news.
And ex-Philip Morris exec, a former Philip Morris executive, has admitted in a memo, turned over memo, that Philip Morris tried to determine the minimum nicotine levels to keep smokers hooked.
In other words, as they began to get pressure from the government many years ago, they did research to try and figure out the minimum amount of nicotine they could have in there to keep everybody hooked.
Now, that clearly implies, flies in the face of the executive that said nicotine is not addictive.
In fact, they all said it, remember, lined up like little cigarettes standing on a table.
This facts, Art, ABC documented that the FDA is going to declare cigarettes to be a medical device delivering nicotine soon to be declared a controlled substance.
Aren't you and one in five Americans are going to be, by FDA governmental decree, criminals overnight?
And I guess part of the deal was the judge ordered him or has requested that he pay $1,800 a month for his incarceration fees.
I think Mr. Rostenkowski did about 30 years or so in Congress, and I would have to guess his pension probably is the neighborhood of Tom Foley's, which is about $10,000 a month.
Look, these are people who had financial problems.
One way or the other.
They lost their farms.
They lost what they had.
And I think it's epidemic today.
You blame somebody else.
Whatever it is that goes wrong, it's somebody else's fault.
It's some corrupt official's fault.
It's another way of blaming more directly than many of you do the government for whatever ills you might have.
So that's my take on it.
I think that's what they're doing, and I think that caller had it basically correct.
Now, I observed, by the way, this is, I think, really, really interesting.
Maybe you can explain it to me.
My mail is full, just absolutely stocked full, as the early days of the discussion we had about the Freemen, stocked full of people saying how ignorant I am, how I need an education, how I just don't understand properly these Freemen claims, or I couldn't be saying what I'm saying.
The only support that I had, basically in the beginning now, came from Montana.
Isn't that interesting?
The people of Montana, on the phones, in the mail, had one thing to say.
The people that are really around these so-called Freemen had one point of view.
Everybody elsewhere seemed to want to have another to make of these men some great martyr for some great cause, not paying taxes, being able to make money out of nothing.
And the mail ran the same way.
How uneducated I must be to not understand the system they're using, why it's not okay, why it is okay, I guess they would say, to threaten local officials, to create bank accounts from liens derived from their own justice system, and then to write what amount to hot checks on those accounts.
Well, that's cool.
And if I just had more of an education, I'd understand why that is cool.
Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified
How are you doing, aren't you?
Godless even you.
That aside, our Portland, Oregonian up here, you got the word answer 492, by the way, finally told about the Paulo Verde episode going down there that Doc was letting you know about.
Well, yeah, well, actually, it was about five years ago, and it's come out, and the man ate a lot of lamb.
And it turns out that Oregon was, I don't know if it's our forensic deal down there for catching poachers or whatever, but we're set up to where we can test for this.
And so Oregon's going to kind of start testing.
And I think we're going to be the testers for the country.
But yeah, I've guaranteed Crutchfeld Jacob.
You know, it was proven.
They say it's about a one in a million chance of catching it.
You know, if I would get those odds, I'd be playing the lottery every day.
Now it doesn't look like it's going to be settled at all.
They want a jury of their peers comprised only of men into some sort of grand jury of their choosing.
In other words, their own justice system based on common law, which they say only allows for men to be on the jury, which I thought was kind of strange.
But then I got a fax that explains it, sort of.
Art, the reason that the free men have asked that the jury be all males is rooted in legal terms.
Testimony is derived from the Latin testes and basically means to swear upon one's testicles.
Since women have no testes, they're under the law qualified to neither offer up nor to hear testimony.
So, in other words, no women on the jury.
Now, Lynn, a woman from North Hollywood, listening to KBC, just faxed me, said, Dear Art, as for the Freeman, just build a wall around the compound and declare it to be a federal prison.
And that's all there is to that.
And another woman faxed me and basically said, then if that's the way they feel about testes, then why don't we have them removed?
Dear Art, if California thinks it has problems with illegal immigrant related expenses, education, welfare, and so forth, what's going to happen if the illegals that were roughed up by the sheriffs win their multi-million dollar lawsuits?
How many of the thousands of Mexicans crossing our borders will give the police, pardon the expression, a run for our money?
Tom in Gales Creek, Oregon.
And then responding to the two gals, and again, I want to thank the lady who sent me the Oprah tape of the two girls.
That was an amazing tape.
Two heads, three or four lungs, and everything below the waist, singular.
Two arms, but two heads.
And I asked, what about souls?
And this person writes, two hearts, therefore, two souls.
They are indeed separate personalities, or appear to be, so it would be reasonable to assume that if there are souls, there are two present in these young ladies.
And then we talked about the man who was arrested.
He took a cat.
This is from the Sarasota Herald Tribune, hung it from a tree with fishing line, and allegedly had his pit bull have out the cat.
He was charged with animal fighting and baiting, convicted, could be sentenced to five years in prison, fine, $5,000.
You think that's too light or too heavy?
You're back on the air again.
unidentified
Hello.
Yeah, Mr. Bell, back on the cat kind of thing there.
Well, look, just because I go to China doesn't mean that I have to either observe the way they go after their animals or what they eat.
Now, I'll tell you, when we're in Bangkok, Bob Crane did, we think, eat something that either barked or meowed.
We kind of think barked at one time.
It's hard to say, but he went out, very adventuresome, you know, in Bangkok.
They've got street vendors, and they have these large pots of stewing whatever.
You know, there's a lot of stuff that floats in it, and you don't exactly know what it is.
And Bob got adventuresome, and he went down there, and the guy was very nice, you know, very friendly, very excited that an American would come to one of these little street side vendors and have something to eat.
So he served it up to Bob, and Bob could not handle the odor coming from the food and tried to give it back.
Well, the guy came with a whole bunch of onions and dumped the onions in to mask the odor coming from this whatever it was.
And Bob did, in fact, eat whatever it was.
And to this day, we don't know.
And to this day, I would think he wouldn't want to know.
I had a feeling that women were going to react this way.
I don't think the free men have done a lot to engender support now from women, if this is true.
That only those with the proper plumbing can be judges or witnesses.
And I say, as I said last hour, now, suppose one of these freemen were accused of murder, and the only witness that could absolutely testify and free one of these free men was a woman.
Think they'd allow her to testify, make an exception?
Otherwise, he goes to the gallows.
So it seems to me there'd be a courtroom conversion, or maybe he'd go to the gallows saying, no, thank you.
I just started listening to you, well, I don't know, a few months ago as I came into having insomnia, worrying about what I'm going to be doing next year after I've graduated from school.
If women are not even allowed to testify from men, and there was a woman who could give witness to the fact that a free man did not commit murder, do you think he would have a courtroom conversion and allow her testimony or maintain until the end that her equipment wasn't right?
unidentified
Well, I think these guys are just sleazeballs, so they'll have the conversion.
I just wanted to call and let you know, I know that you're not the Antichrist because I know who the Antichrist is, and I can describe for you exactly how he will die.
I got an email message through the internet earlier today that said that the guy who called me the other day and said all technology is evil was dead right.
So in other words, one day soon, possibly before the end of the millennia, we will have an entire generation of people that doesn't have the slightest idea the entire art that mankind has developed of tying shoes will be lost.
unidentified
Exactly.
That art's gone, and the discipline that came along with learning that is gone as well.
Every night, Americans make a commitment to themselves to wake up at 6 o'clock the next morning, and every morning at 6 o'clock, they decide it'll be 6.15 instead.
i'm a nut about time when the time changes i will put on wwv the national bureau of standards and i will insist that every watch every clock every everything and believe me i must have well i did it the other night so i'm going to guess i've got 30 clocks honest to god that have to be set So it's a horrible time of year, twice a year for me, to go around and reset all clocks.
But for me, a clock is nothing if it's not dead on.
If it's not dead on, it's a piece of garbage.
Not even to be kept around.
Should be just trashed.
And I love clocks that are on time, and I hate clocks that are consistently not on time.
Art, your education, such as it is, is so limited as to be unbelievable.
Rather, you are a twit.
You know the truth in what the Freemen are doing, but just don't report it because you don't have the balls to take a stand and admit they may have a point.
See, when somebody writes something like this to me, what it really means is what an uneducated fool you are that you don't agree with me.
The Freemen of Montana and other places, the Faxer says, Chuck, are doing no more than your government does daily.
Write checks on money they don't have, place liens on property, then spend the money before the lien is collected.
See, all we do, sir, is what you hear from me, and I spend 30 minutes at the beginning of the program doing it every day, is recite the current events, things in the news.
And the things that make the news are not good.
It's not news when it's good.
So don't think there are not good things that are not going on out there.
It's just they're not in the news, and this is a current events-driven program.
So I understand your complaint, but you need, by the way, turn your radio off, please.
That's very important.
You know, if you have a complaint, then you need to take the first step and give us something to chew on here.
It's not unreasonable.
unidentified
Well, sometimes you start out the program and you tell about current events and that type of thing, but then you also go into other things and you open up the line for aliens to call and stuff like that.
I mean, I know that I would, if I killed the guy, I'd be committing murder.
I mean, there's no question about it.
unidentified
Well, you see, that's one place where you could use your brain and just get back at somebody like that, you know, quite effectively without going to jail.
And while I'm on it, I guess I should give you a number.
You know, you can order my book now on the internet.
On my webpage, you can actually order it.
Oh, technology.
Or if you want to send in a check and get it, or you want to have a credit card and want to get it, I'm going to give you a number here to get a book called The Art of Talk.
You can get the hardcover edition, or you can get the audio book, and the number is 1-800-864-7991.
Let me give it to you again.
1-800-864-7991.
Back now to the phones.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hello.
Bart?
Yes.
Hey, I was just calling about those freemen and the fact that they only want men on their jury.
Why Women Are Underestimated00:08:12
unidentified
The jury, yeah.
I know what my m would say about this.
Hang on just a second.
I'm getting over on the side of the road.
I'm on the truck driver.
All right.
She would tell them that, you know, they trust women to raise their children.
You know, they'll trust them with that job, but they won't trust them with anything else.
And have they never heard of the phrase, the hand that rocks the cradle?
Well, we've had more than one generation that have seen Paris, and they're not going back on the farm.
And I don't think the Freemen are going to end up with an all-male jury of their peers, which would probably mean, in their case, people who believe exactly what they believe.
And they said, under those conditions, we'd be exonerated.
The volcano Montserrat is about to let go, they think, in the Caribbean.
If it does, we'll get you fairly close reporting in the Caribbean.
We'll talk to some people in the Caribbean if she lets go, and it's really going to let go.
The scientists say it may be the big one.
In Montana, negotiations have broken off with the Freemen.
Absolutely broken off.
No new talks are scheduled.
They let one reporter in from one soldier of fortune reporter got in and reported back that they demand their own trial, their own common law grand jury, which they say will be all or must be, excuse me, all male.
And I wondered a little bit about why all male.
And then someone sent me a fax and explained it.
Art, the reason that the Freemen have asked that the jury be all male is rooted in legal terms.
Testimony is derived from the Latin testes and basically means to swear upon one's testicles.
Since women have no testes, they're under the law qualified to neither offer up nor to hear testimony.
Hope this enlightens you to their view.
Well, I guess it does.
That's from Dale in Payette, Idaho.
And there has been quite a bit of reaction to that, I might say.
Women ought to be barefoot, pregnant, and ought not to be in the courts one way or the other.
And I sort of wondered out loud what would happen if a free man was accused of murder and the only one who could testify in his defense didn't have the proper body parts.
Would he turn her down?
Or would there be a courtroom conversion?
One has to wonder.
And we've also talked a little bit about this awful story from the Associated Press printed in the Sarasota Herald Tribune.
And I guess a lot of other people have seen it too.
This guy tied a cat up by its tail and hung it from a tree and then allegedly encouraged his pit bull to attack it, which did, ripped it open.
And the cat had to be put to sleep.
Now, I thought the interesting caller was Leonard.
My comment, of course, as a cat lover was if I saw somebody doing this to my cat, I'd probably kill them.
And then I'd probably go to jail.
If I saw the thing coming down, I probably couldn't guarantee what I would do.
That's, of course, not justified, taking a human life because a cat life is being taken.
Well, I believe the answer would be they would both die because there are too many shared internal organs that would cause life to stop.
unidentified
Okay, because I know there was, wasn't there three lungs and two stomachs?
And I guess my concern was if one of the, and I don't want to, this sounds sort of morbid, but if one of the heads were to pass on, would the other one pass on too because they share some organs and they have their own organs?
I would presume that if there was some traumatic damage to the brain of one, that one could possibly even go into a coma while the other remained completely conscious.
That could occur.
But I believe if there was an affliction that would affect one of the common organs, then obviously both would die.
And again, I want to thank the lady that sent me the tape on these two little girls.
Well, things have not exactly improved this year so far.
unidentified
No, no, it's not going very good.
But I want to give you a little bit of insight on some of the feelings that we have here in Montana, or at least in the Bitterroot, where it was pretty hot.
There's about half the people that I know, and I work in the restaurant industry, and I have a lot of contact with people who feel that this is actually might even be a good thing because they don't want all the nuts.
They don't want all the coups coming out here.
They want to keep it rural, a lot of the people.
And some of the other people are really hurting financially, economically.
I'm sure.
And it's just something I wanted to bring up to you.
Not everybody outside Montana is, and people have since changed their minds.
But when this thing first began, man, I was getting calls from L.A., San Francisco.
You named the big city, and they were saying, right on, right on, these guys are right on.
And so I decided, well, let's hear from the people who live there.
So for two or three days, I opened the line to Montana.
And to the person, except for one guy who really wasn't in Montana, it turned out, the people in Montana said, we hate this.
You know, these people actually have been terrorizing us.
And I'm talking about the people close in now, Jordan, and we're sick of it.
unidentified
Yeah.
Well, as far as the people in Jordan go, I really can't say anything about that.
But I do know about the militia members that were, you know, it was highly publicized in the Bitterroot here.
I know a few of them, and I've had the pleasure to, you know, spend even a little bit of time with them.
Really nice people.
Isn't that interesting?
However, you know, there's some other circumstances too.
I mean, like the Freeman, I've heard, what isn't publicized, I don't think, too much is the fact that they are, you know, they're covering, I think, their butts on like some debts and stuff.
They broke bad checks and stuff like that.
Man, you know, everybody has a responsibility if they take out a loan to pay the loan.
And as far as their political views goes, I do agree with some of them.
But, you know, like I said, I'm just calling to kind of let you know that there is a, you know, there's a lot of people who think differently here about it.
I understand that very well indeed, and I'm not going to repeat it because I don't need to.
I took I don't know how many calls from Montana, and that's what kind of changed things, frankly, and began to turn some heads around out in the general public.
And the general public was very, very anti-government, and until they heard from the people in the area, they were on the side of the free men.
And anybody who would think otherwise must not have much of an education.
Boy, if you don't agree with me, you just don't have much of an education.
Check this out.
And I missed it, too.
I could shoot myself.
Art, last night, Gordon Michael Scallion appeared on UPN's TV program, The Paranormal Borderline, and made a startling new prediction for 1996.
Mars moon Phobos is going to be pulled from its orbit and sent on a collision course with the Earth's atmosphere.
Art, the fact that women under Black's Law Dictionary, definition of testimony, cannot legally testify or hear testimony in court of law does not mean that they, like a eunuch, cannot legally present evidence in a court of law.
In the days of old, to testify falsely in a court of law meant the removal of the testifier's testicles upon the discovery of the falseness of said testimony, at least in theory.
Well, then he says P.S. Sicko with a dog needs to have his testimony removed.
Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hello.
Oh, hi, Art.
It's been difficult getting you.
I should be getting you on WOAI.
I'm only 300 miles from San Antonio, but you're fading in and out on me.
Although, if he truly thinks he is, then a message to Leonard would be, I'm sure you'll see F you in hell.
And that's all I can say about Leonard.
But I wanted to address the issue of the police in California to hold over the immigrants.
Yes.
I've been thinking about this for several days.
I have a son-in-law that's a police officer, and I have a dear friend that's police officer.
They both thought it was excessive.
But they both seemed to empathize with the fact that in both cases, the policemen get an adrenaline rush.
And I came up with an idea that maybe, and I asked each one of them at separate times, if you were involved in something like that and you did get the adrenaline rush, if you knew you had the okay to, once the people were cuffed, to beat hell out of the car or the vehicle they were in to release that adrenaline.
In other words, to dissipate one's adrenaline by taking it out on the vehicle.
You are authorized to beat the hell out of that vehicle, smash it into little pieces, while the owners lay cuffed on their bellies on the side of the road.
And they watch the piece-by-piece destruction by baton of their vehicles and the exhaustion of the adrenaline rush the officers otherwise would Use to beat up the individuals.
Hey, Art, I have two items.
I am dismayed by the lack of coverage of the tensions in the Korean peninsula.
Both the local and national news that I've seen barely mentions it.
Well, you're quite correct, and what's going on over there is horrendously dangerous.
Now, I have not heard any news in the last, I believe, 12 hours, but the North Koreans are sending hundreds of armed troops into the DMZ.
It's kind of a show of, I don't know what it's a show of.
It's either the precursor to the resumption of hostilities on the Korean Peninsula, or it's just some sort of political ploy, one of the two.
And it's going to be hard to tell until somebody either takes a shot or not.
But the South Koreans are sitting on pins and needles on very high alert, as is the U.S. About 2 million people are starving to death in North Korea.
And it's a crazed regime anyway, dictatorship.
And you should imagine that they might do something stupid.
Even the Chinese are telling them to cool it, and they're not.
If Rodney King was entitled to $5 million and these illegal Mexicans are suing for $10 million, I wonder how much money that girl in Okinawa that was raped is entitled to.
Well, you know, I hate to say this, but hearing him say that reminded me of a lot of movies I've seen where religious fanatics are trying to beat religion into their offspring.
They've got their son or daughter down on their hands and knees, whipping them, demanding they repent as sinners and become immediately religious.
And that as you're beaten, why you get religion in that manner.
That would just be one of those sort of what would you do if your wife was raped or killed questions.
It's not the same because it's an animal.
Obviously, it's an animal.
So it is probably wrong to feel as I feel, but I do.
So, without apology, I feel that way about animals.
And I kind of wonder at the is it the Christian belief, and I think it is really, that an animal is simply unimportant.
And that's what Leonard really was saying.
Not making any excuses for him because he said it, but is that part of the Christian ethic that an animal's life is simply irrelevant?
So forget it.
Guy doesn't need to be punished or anything else.
Just take the cat and bury it.
Forget about the whole thing.
Somebody wants to use an animal in that way.
I believe the logic goes, God put them on the earth for our enjoyment.
And if that enjoyment is stringing a cat up and setting our pit bull on it to tear its guts out, watch that, and that's our enjoyment, then that's why God put these animals here.
That must be the religious take on it.
At least that's the way I received it.
We'll be right back.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 9th of April, 1996.
Real Audio Revolution00:15:38
unidentified
She has only whispers of some quiet conversation.
She's coming in 1235.
The one that wings meet Premier Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from April 9th, 1996.
While my local station droned on tonight with the local baseball game, I jumped on the internet, tuned in WPSL, then WOAI, and reception is great with real audio.
Forward to the day somebody puts a show on demand through real audio.
I think your sponsors would be elated about being on the air 24 hours a day.
I know I would be.
I guess what he means is somebody would replay it during different portions of the day.
I'm not exactly sure, but I am very excited about real audio.
It's just part of the technology that we're jumping into.
Video, two-way video, audio, bulletin boards, the internet, the webpage, real audio going around the world, international toll-free lines.
We're in the middle of it all.
And coming next, in logical sequence, is shortwave.
We're really jumping into the middle of this one, folks.
And I'm really looking forward to it.
We're going to try to hook up with a European, Eastern European shortwave broadcaster in the million-watt range and get it from here to there by mid-Atlantic satellite.
Then go up and cover Europe and Asia and South America just like a big blanket.
Anyway, in the meantime, if you're hearing us through whatever means on the internet or by long-distance coverage, WOAI, for example, goes blazing, we now know, into Belize.
We've got a fellow who sits down there in a hammock listening to a Sony Walkman, WOAI.
So try and imagine that for a signal from San Antonio.
Anyway, if you're out there internationally, no matter where you are, it is now toll-free to call us because we have an international toll-free line.
So it doesn't matter where you are.
The way you do it is get hold of the ATT operator or get the ATT USA direct access number for your country, dial that, and then 800-893-0903.
That's 800-893-0903.
And from any place in the world, you'll be able to call us toll-free.
Art, why am I sour on religion?
Leonards everywhere are the reason.
Those psychos claim to worship a God who counts all the hairs on our heads and all the sparrows in the trees, then say of a cruelly killed cat, no big deal.
If that's Christianity, get it the hell away from me, Bill in Seattle.
Well, I wouldn't go that far, Bill, and I wouldn't also classify all Christians as in Leonard's corner with regard to the way they feel about animals, not at all.
So I don't want to paint with a broad brush, but with regard to Leonard, who's very strictly religious, obviously that is the way he feels.
Dear Art Cogo, reporting at 1 o'clock a 3.2 earthquake in the Dakotas south of Mount Rushmore.
A lot of Dakota earthquakes lately, have you noticed?
Yeah, well, he claims to be, but, you know, I believe, you know, that, um, you know, God gave us dominion over the animals, but he also said that we're to be stewards of all his creation, which is the animals and the trees, you know, and everything else.
And, you know, I just don't like people stereotyping Christians to be anything like Leonard, because that's not really how they are.
And they've got a couple of senators on coming across with, you know, about illegal aliens and educating them, stuff like that.
And I tried to get a hold of you here the other night, you know, when they had that incident where they know.
And they didn't have a lot of, what do you want to call it, facts about how they endangered a lot of people's lives after the chase and everything like that.
Now, I don't want to really sound like r a bigot, but I happen to be from Texas.
And I'm living in Arizona right now.
And, you know, I'm seeing here what I've seen in Texas about 10 years ago as a lot of illegal aliens coming into the country.
I happen to be in construction trade that I have watched my pay go down.
And then with the other, you know, what do you call it?
Oh, the, you know, the minimum wage go up, that, you know, I'm getting caught in this middle, you know.
And, you know, like, I worked out here about 10 years ago.
I'm working for the same wage I was ten years ago, but doing twice the equipment, twice the work, you know, stuff like that.
And listening to these two senators is what I'm kind of a question I would really like to ask is, you know, I understand a person trying to better themselves anywhere they are at.
But, you know, I've seen us over the last, how many years now, pump money into Mexico.
Well, that is true, thank you, of just about anybody or anything you give money to.
When you give it, it rarely accomplishes its goal.
When it is earned, then it does.
With regard to the aliens that were beaten, no amount of complaining justifies the manner of the beating.
It was excessive.
It was clearly excessive.
Now, having said that, if we would properly police our borders, then this wouldn't happen.
So when you take the kind of approach you're taking, it does run the risk of being dubbed racism or racist.
Instead, try taking the tact that I take, and that is that every country is sovereign, every nation, and we are a sovereign nation.
We have not only a right, but a duty to protect our borders.
And I'm not talking about locking everybody out.
I'm talking about having whatever it takes, a wall, physical or electronic, or both, so that we know exactly who comes and goes from America.
Now, I realize that crops need to be picked, some jobs need to be done that Americans don't do.
A lot of industries are dependent on these workers.
There's nothing wrong with having them here.
And there is every possibility that we could allow, on an as-needed basis, people in to do work.
We can certainly allow people to come and visit and have a manner of tracking them so we know where they are.
I assure you, when you travel as an American with an American passport, they know where you are and what your business is when you come into their country.
And we've got every right to do that here.
And if we were doing it, then we wouldn't be concerned about chasing a truckload of illegal aliens down at 80 to 100 miles an hour because they wouldn't have made it that far.
Am I clear?
I don't begrudge these people wanting to make a better living.
And if I was in Mexico, I'm sure I'd be considering exactly the same thing, particularly since we make it so damn easy.
And I want to say that there's at least one view, and it's mine, is that Americans are born everywhere in the world.
People who yearn for and really strive for liberty and justice for all and seek out our country.
Many of them, even born in Mexico or born in Bosnia or born anywhere else in the world, are more American in my view than many of the people who would close our borders are.
I understand that we have to control our borders, but I think that we have to recognize that the American dream has more to do with liberty and justice for all than it does to do with jobs or lowered wages or raising wages or your view of the future or anything else.
The idea of America for me is an idea that's impossible anywhere else in the world, but that is the idea of liberty and justice for all.
And I too believe that immigration at some certain level is good for us.
Not bad, but good.
And I wouldn't stop it.
I would simply control it.
Now, if you look at the difference between those numbers that we legally allow to immigrate to the U.S. from Mexico, or take any country, but Mexico, and then you look at the numbers that are illegally here, there is such a difference, such a tremendous difference, that something has got to be done.
And it is our federal government's charge to do it.
And if you want to concentrate your efforts on something, your energies on something, petition your local representative to get something done about it.
I've got one cat who is so human in the way this cat acts and so loving, it's my shadow, that we believe, if there is reincarnation, that this one comes back next time as a human.
In other words, this one's so close that the next jump is to humanity.
unidentified
Well, yes, and I also disobservance only partially privileously.
It is an interesting insight, I believe, into Leonard and into a religious extremism.
Because that's what I think it is, religious extremism.
And I guess that's why I'm not so structured in my beliefs.
I have them.
But I fully believe that the God I know would definitely have some harsh words for you when you get up there if you did that sort of thing when you were here.
I mean, you would be judged, it seems to me, on that sort of behavior.
So it's not a non-issue, and that's kind of what Leonard was saying, that it's just an animal.
It's a total non-issue.
None of that sort of behavior is relevant to man's relationship with God.
And sometimes calls like that are just nice to get.
We do a lot of different things on this program.
And I'm firmly convinced that is why it succeeds the way it does.
It's not agenda-driven.
It's not driven by anything in particular.
If current events are what's hot, we do that.
If not, there's a million other things to do.
There is more to life, I am convinced, than politics.
A person can only take so much politics.
And for some reason, Talk Radio at some point has decided for some unknown reason, and I think it may have to do with Rush Limbaugh, that to be successful, it must be political.
It just isn't so.
It is not even an accurate reflection of life.
I mean, look at those people around you, in your office, in your home, your acquaintances, people you know.
How much time do you personally or with your friends spend in a discussion of Clinton versus Dole or the Republicans versus the Democrats?
In real life, tell me, how much of your time do you spend doing that?
I think the answer is not full time.
That you have a life that goes beyond that, right?
Way beyond that.
And that, if anything, that's a minimum amount of your time.
So?
unidentified
This is Premier Networks.
With Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
Uh oh, yes, I believe Bruce Williams is still on someplace, yes.
unidentified
Okay, all right, that's well, I wanted to know that because uh I heard the other day somebody said they were still listening to him, and I thought he either died or retired.
Oh, I imagine her stockings are probably hanging from some of the more important equipment up there and slamming the Russian astronauts and the cosmonauts in the face.
unidentified
140 days, that's a long time to try and have clothes.
Well, to a certain extent, like what I know about it is what I have in my dissertation on dark molecular clouds, in which there's dramatic phase changes in clouds.
For the layman, you have catastrophe theory when you have, say, something like the melting of ice, where it undergoes a phase change, or either it changes from liquid to gas or liquid to solid, whatever.
Well, apparently what Teddy was doing, the unibomber, was he had derived a theory about social relationships.
Now, what's disturbing about it is he could be right, because there was a mathematician named Punkaray in the later half of the 19th century who was really the founder of chaos theory.
And he proved some theorems that he actually didn't believe.
Well, apparently, Teddy has maybe he's proved some theorems.
And we talked about this yesterday, that is there not a possibility that if you could visit 100 or 200 years into the future, that you would find history books praising the Inabomber,
not for what he did, not for the manner of the message delivery, but for the accurate portrayal of exactly what was going on, that technology eventually will be the downfall of mankind, That there will be some sort of revolution akin to the one, uh...
that now had, with a purging of intellectuals and those who uh...
technology, that it will the wall crash and burn and those who had anything to do with the technological age will be uh...
as the Chinese did in their revolution.
purged and there will be some sort of phoenix that will rise from the ashes of the technological civilization, some sort of phoenix that will be a very different future for what is left of mankind after the catastrophic event.
And I kind of took it from there and said, what would you expect to rise from the ashes of that civilization?
In Oakland California, I'm one of these people who I think I've told you this before.
I would, and I have and I continue to I put out food for homeless cats and dogs, but homeless people I would just step right over in in every case.
Animals are humane, but people not quite so.
So for that reason I would say that I would put especially cats and dogs on the same level as people and when it comes to liberals, I would even put them above liberals.
Okay, but I think Leonard's problem is he's he's hung around too many cows for too long.
You know, there is no such thing as this man paints a broad brush and Leonard paints a broad brush, and that's how I find myself comfortably in the middle.
I don't believe in torture of animals, nor am I without compassion for people Morning, you're on the air on my international line.
He said his point was that people don't keep people in the Western culture and stuff like that, but we don't think the same way about us slaughtering cows and pigs and stuff like that.
All right, but look, here's the difference, folks.
Even though I abhor the idea of eating dogs and cats because we in the West have them as pets, even though we don't like the idea that people are eating these animals that we regard as pets, they're not torturing them.
And the discussion we're having is with regard to torture.
And I would regard the torture of a cow the same way I would regard the torture of a cat.
I wouldn't regard it well at all.
And the person who would do it, I think, would be in a moral, mortal danger.
Their soul would be in danger, for I feel it is a sin.
It doesn't matter what kind of animal it is or person.
You don't torture a life.
When you torture life, you show a reckless disregard for it.
And I doubt that our maker is going to be real happy about that.
So as you ascend, if you do, you know, try quoting the passages that you think support the torture of animals, and I doubt you're going to get very far.
I think this guy is missing a big point here, and this is why I don't think we'll ever see the Unibomber being appreciated down the road, is the fact that technology is as much a part of our nature as human beings as it is for lions to chase down impalas on the savannah.
The more I look around, the more I look around at human societies, I'm more and more convinced that we're not as far from the cave-dwelling ancestors that we spring forth from, yeah, socially.
Tried to get through to you Friday, and I was one of those where it was one, two, three, you're gone, and I could hear the delay as it clicked off on me.
You know, it's funny about that volcano because that's one of the things I wanted to talk to you about then, and it was the fact that I'd heard it about a week ago.
Oh, no, I've been mentioning Maserat now for days.
unidentified
Oh, have you?
Okay.
Because we get you till 3 on WJBO, and then I have to listen to you if I can on my car radio while I'm doing my paper route, either on 790, 810, or 550.
There was an article when I was a teenager in it called The Cruelest Game Since Rome, and it was about pit bull fighting or dog fighting, which isn't limited to pit bulls.
Actually, Sharp Hayes are a fighting breed, and there's a lot of outlawed other breeds.
But the whole article went on and described this fight and described this guy, how he'd taken his dog to the fight.
And incidentally, all the pit bulls were trained on cats and some chickens, too.
But they usually use a treadmill with little kittens in a cage, and that's really horrible.
But this guy, you know, his dog won the fight and died later from internal injuries.
And then the parting statement in the whole article was: the guy goes, Yeah, it's pretty tough when you lose a dog when you have a spar like this.
You just really got to love dogs.
And it was just, you know, I don't know if that was artistic license on the part of the writer, but you know, I know how some of these people seem to be.
I've known a person that fought dogs here in Louisiana.
It's common in some areas.
We're still having a problem with cockfighting here.
I got a couple commentaries to make on your program here.
I listen to you talk about a lot of diverse subjects when you always have time for UFOs and time for immortals and stuff along that nature of supernatural and demonic.
But when anyone ever starts talking about Christianity or being born again or some true spirituality, you seem to cut them off.
I would understand, though, the urge to try and find out whether you could.
So why don't you give it a shot one of these days and let us know?
unidentified
I have, actually.
I've prevented a number of things from happening.
how do you know that my my friend and family have from from one one uh...
example there was uh... uh... one of them i don't know what they're called one of those things that are attached to a fluorescent light in my parents' basement.
And I dreamed of a fire in my parents' house, and I was extremely alert to it, and it started smoking a day or two after the dream.
Yes.
And because I was alerted to it, I got everybody, woke everybody up and stopped it when the smoke was coming out.
This is an open program, and we need to hear all views, including those like his.
I don't object to it.
unidentified
Oh, I agree with you, Art.
And there's a lot of people out there that would, you know, just because they don't agree with the show or the topics on a show, they just want to take it all off the air because they don't agree with it.
And I think that that's bogus because, you know, there are people out there like me who enjoy tremendously both of your shows all week long.
And, you know, every night I wake up about 4 o'clock because my girlfriend goes to work, and I listen to you for about two hours.
And then I work on Saturday, on Sunday evenings.
I listen to your Dreamland show, and I enjoy it tremendously.
And he said something about men of faith don't believe in things like that.
I'll tell you a little story.
When I was Give me just a second.
When I was growing up, when I was about eight years old, we were living in an older house in a small town in Kansas.
The small house, we had been told that the people that had lived there before us, there was two or three families that had lived there, and they had only stayed there for maybe a month or a month and a half and then moved out.
Now, I guess you can probably get, no, what you know what I'm getting to.
The house was very haunted, and we had a minister come to the house, and he no longer was in the house, maybe ten minutes, and he said that there was a he got scared himself, just being in the house.
She feels something just wrong.
Sure.
And he said it, the house itself changed his opinion of he had never sensed or felt anything like that.
I saw the wound, but I never related it to a bullet wound.
And in fact, it healed, but the poor cat died of lead poisoning.
And I never knew it until afterward.
It was horrible.
It died in my lap.
And I once, it was a cat named Yesu.
And it was the saddest thing that ever happened to me.
But I once, and in fact, a few times I felt the presence of that cat.
Now, see, that'll really drive people crazy.
The soul of an animal returned?
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
There was, you know, you would take showers.
I know my mom, I wasn't really old enough to understand what was happening, but my mom, she's told me stories to where she would be in the shower and she would get this sense, this feeling that there was somebody in the shower with her.
She would get out because it would scare her to the point where she didn't want to be in the shower anymore.
And you know how windows would fog up, you know, your mirrors in the bathroom would fog up.
She would come out of the bathroom, out of the shower, and the window would be, I don't remember exactly how she put it, but it wouldn't be totally fogged over.
It would be like there would be sections of it that would be fogged.
And they couldn't explain this.
They had, you know, she would, it was either to the point where it wasn't foggy and she would go do something and come back and it would be foggy.
Sorry, I got up late because it'll upset everybody, probably, or most people.
I used to make short trips out of town on weekends, and I noticed coming back on Sunday evenings that there would be animals, dogs, you know, run over in the road, and it just seemed like it was terrible.
There was so many.
I couldn't figure it out.
I finally was told by someone that these were dogs that they'd had in dog fights and they'd hadn't back-hand pickups, and they'd be injured so bad that they wouldn't recover anything.
They'd throw them out backhand pickup if it didn't kill him and they hit the highway in cars that run over him.
I just think pit bulls take too much of a bad rap.
Personally, I own three of them, and I've heard your argument in the past over, you know, you can't say there isn't a mean dog, which I agree, but it's all how you raise them.
And, you know, I hope in one sense that this guy didn't do this for these animal rights activists to get these pit bulls banned in certain areas.
You know, my grandmother passed away here about a year ago, and I was back in Cincinnati, and there's a county over there, I think it's Washington, that you're not even allowed to have a pit bull in that county.
There are a number of cities and areas like that now, sir.
No, look, I don't want to enter the whole pit bull controversy again because I think we pretty well settled it.
While the pit bull may be capable of a greater physical response, and therefore is favored by people who would train dogs to be mean, to eat cats or people or whatever, I don't think the pit bull is necessarily any meaner than any other animal.
It's how you raise it.
It's just the capability of the pit bull that makes people raise it to attack, to be an attack dog.
And it's that capability and perhaps some breeding toward that end, but mostly the capability of the breed that makes people want to train it in a certain way.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
unidentified
Well, I just want to say, you know, I'm kind of old-fashioned.
These people that torture animals, I think they ought to be horse-whipped, some of them.
But I was wondering, Art, what if, kind of for me, if you died and there was like a, you could do your show on the universal level, who would be some of your guests on dreamland?
Do you think your first guest, like, for example, like Ben Franklin or Hitler or Jesus or something like that?
You just, you know, that and then the Freeman, everyone that comes up here, you know, they just, you know, they fully talk about, you know, they don't really talk about really everything else that's good about it.
Well, somebody sent me a fax not long ago and said, well, at least it's a change up from the river runs through it that was bringing all these Californians out here.