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April 8, 1996 - Art Bell

02:50:29

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Open Lines & Unabomber

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	Welcome to Arkbell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from April 8th, 1996.
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning, wherever you may be across all these many time zones.
	Had a wonderful weekend off, and it's good to be here.
	From the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands, west all the way across this great nation of ours, To the Caribbean.
	In the U.S.
	Virgin Islands.
	South into South America.
	Hammock country.
	In Belize.
	North to the bowl.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	And I'm Art Bell.
	Good to be here.
	Very good to be here.
	Back in the saddle again.
	Well.
	There have been two large volcanic eruptions.
	Shooting ash.
	Billowing like a gray carpet.
	Over a small Caribbean island, Montserrat is going up.
	The first of the afternoon eruptions rivaled in size a Saturday eruption that rocketed ash 30 to 40,000 feet in height.
	Monday's eruptions interrupted a news conference by William Amba, head of the Montserrat Volcano Observatory.
	He says now the volcano has entered a stage of higher activity since Wednesday that could produce a, quote, climactic eruption, end quote.
	So Montserrat is going up.
	A lot of other news to talk about.
	Let me, oh yes, of course, let me tell you a couple of things here.
	You know about our international line.
	Well, it is finally perfected and working just spiffy.
	And we would love to have you give it a try.
	Now, on my webpage, we have uploaded most of the world's AT&T direct access numbers.
	Pretty cool, huh?
	You'll find them on my webpage.
	Keith Rowland staying right on top of everything.
	Boom, boom, boom.
	Just like that.
	Whatever's new is up on that webpage.
	So, if you would like to go visit, you may do so at www.artbell.com.
	www.artbell.com.
	A lot of the book signing photos up there, the ones that are going to be in the newsletter, you will find just about everything, as a matter of fact, on that web page, so go take a look.
	Now, the international line, the first truly toll-free international telephone line has been established, accomplished by the brilliant people at AT&T.
	And I should tell you, and I will, loosely, that we are now pursuing a large million-watt-plus shortwave station in St.
	Petersburg, Russia.
	And we may well engage their services, or the services of another large shortwave station, and be up on shortwave In the next months to come.
	Now we've got to get it over there on a satellite, or it may be quicker.
	Who knows?
	But we're going to do an Atlantic hop with a satellite signal, and come down and then go back up on 1 million watts of shortwave.
	So that's a coming.
	In the meantime, if you should hear us on the Internet, and we have real audio sites, as you know, You'll see it up there, also on my webpage.
	You can jump over and take a listen.
	WPSL in Port St.
	Lucie, Florida, and WOAI in San Antonio, Texas.
	So, if you're hearing us on the Internet, because of the big 50,000 watt kaboomers out there, and you're not in-country, you can reach us free of charge, free, by calling the AT&T
	USA Direct Access number for your country and then 800-893-0903. 800-893-0903.
	Fugitive members of the militant anti-government Freeman Group
	have released a defiant written statement on the 15th day of their standoff with the FBI in Jordan, Montana.
	Members of the Freeman posted a statement outside their rule compound.
	Get this, reasserting their independence and denying the validity of the Montana and US governments.
	So, hopes for an Easter surrender obviously failed.
	In their negotiations thus far, the freemen are saying the only way they're coming out is if they can be judged by their own common law court.
	In other words, their justice system, not THE justice system.
	So, what was beginning to look like a short-term standoff now seems more likely a very long-term problem.
	Which seems more likely to you?
	Violence at the end?
	Or a surrender?
	Um, Dear Art, I know you don't often read email messages on the air, but please consider what I have to say regarding the so-called freemen and other anti-government organizations.
	I'm really sick of the media not referring to the freemen as what they really are, anarchists.
	Heavily armed anarchists.
	You said it yourself, on the air, that if the freemen's demands for the abolition of the federal government were to come true, the end result would be anarchy.
	So what does that make them?
	The Freeman, some militias, Posse Comitatus, other like-minded groups, all have got one thing in common.
	A hatred of the federal government that is so deep and paranoid that they have dedicated themselves to its destruction.
	Many of these groups also advocate the destruction of the 50 state governments.
	Somebody sent this to me from Montana.
	Poor Montana.
	To anyone concerned about how Montana's tourism trade will fare under the weight of militia movements, Freeman Frenzy and Unabombers, have no fear, KLCY Radio was here.
	Hosts of the Missoula Station's Wacky Breakfast Club show decided Thursday morning to find a catchy new slogan for Montana, just to make sure visitors still want to come.
	Tongue-in-cheek suggestions include 47 of them in all, Came from every corner of the listenership there.
	The winner, according to popular vote, welcome to Montana.
	It's where you're wanted.
	Second place, Montana, the great escape.
	Other nominations, Big Sky, the favorite place for the FBI.
	Montana, naturally indicting.
	Montana, the last best place to hide.
	And the unique submission from restaurant owner, um, well I won't give his name.
	At least our cows are sane.
	Our cows, folks.
	A lot of trouble going on in Korea.
	South Korea is now giving the North a warning that any more troops showing up in the DMZ are going to be shot.
	And, in fact, North Korea has been sending A large numbers, hundreds of heavily armed North Korean troops into the DMZ.
	Oh boy, is this dangerous.
	They did it for three nights in a row.
	We'll find out about tonight later.
	Tensions are high.
	South Korea and the U.S.
	on the highest alert since the truce with North Korea.
	And I've got a question for you, and I want you to think really hard about this.
	How many of you think that we could actually muster the people to fight another Asian war?
	If it comes down to it, if the Koreans, and they've got about two million people now, starving, decide to do something stupid, and I would not rule it out, how many of you think we could muster, if we had to, enough Americans to go and fight Uh, in Korea.
	Now, I know we have a force there now.
	We would have to have many more.
	Dear Art, further information on the O.J.
	lie detector test story.
	Story was broken by Harvey Levin, investigative reporter for L.A.
	TV station.
	He's been around a long time.
	Says the info from several different stories, uh, sources, rather.
	Here's how I heard it.
	O.J.
	was sent to a doctor, accompanied by Robert Kardashian, by Shapiro.
	But Shapiro had not yet entered his appearance as O.J.' 's lawyer.
	Apparently, it was arranged ahead of time.
	The doctor then sent them to, or called in, a man named Ed Gelb, who is one of the best and most respected in L.A.
	in the field.
	He's not a medical doctor, but is a Ph.D.
	Very well known, and an expert in lie detection.
	It says O.J.
	and Kardashian were both furious, but O.J.
	did take the test.
	This was two days after the murders.
	He failed it miserably with a minus six.
	In the immortal words of Gomer Pyle, surprise, surprise!
	Pat in Boise.
	Minus six, huh?
	Dear Art, Elizabeth has forced me out.
	Sorry I can't call in.
	But you're not the Antichrist.
	If anyone is, it must be me.
	If there's anything I could do for humanity, it would be to remove the error of Christianity.
	How's that, Art?
	The Antichrist is a Jeffersonian constitutional conservative working as a late-night shift typesetter in Livermore, California.
	Reminiscent of the Twilight Zone episode in which Burgess Meredith portrayed the devil working as a linotype operator, a small I don't make this stuff up, Art.
	More about the error of Christianity in the future.
	Jeff, the Antichrist in Livermore, working late as usual.
	Anyway, we'll be right back.
	The Unabomber has been the big news, and I must say, it fascinates me.
	I don't know why.
	The Unabomber fascinates me, and I'm gonna let you hear some of his quotes here in a moment.
	We'll probably talk about them.
	The Unabomber is a serial killer.
	A long one, too.
	17 years this guy killed.
	FBI thinks they've got the right guy, Theodore Kaczynski, a Montana hermit.
	Three murders, 23 injured so far, charged with, and now only, possession of an explosive.
	But they have found chemicals that match the ones used in the bomb.
	A typewriter that they say is a preliminary match to the one that wrote his manifesto.
	Woodworking tools, the writings, as a matter of fact, That's kind of what got him caught were his writings.
	And he used very similar phrases.
	His brother found these writings.
	Can you imagine that?
	Actually thought he was a Unabomber.
	Thought he might be.
	Hired a detective.
	Hired an ex-FBI fellow who said, yes, these look like the same writings to me.
	They allegedly have got some saliva DNA, which would allow them to narrow it to about three percent of the population, should it be a match.
	He committed murder in two states, wounded people in six others.
	Now, California would like to try him, but that is not going to happen.
	What is going to happen is probably a trial in federal court.
	That's my best guess.
	California has not had a lot of luck with high-profile trials lately, and so I think the feds are going to be not interested in letting him go there.
	There has been established a loose connection to Earth First.
	In other words, he apparently went to some of their meetings.
	You know, It's very interesting, I think.
	In a way, the Unabomber is as much of a left-wing environmentalist wacko as Timothy McVeigh is thought to be on the right.
	Now maybe some of you can help me out with this.
	He was a math teacher.
	He's said to have an IQ of a hundred and fifty plus.
	And in his manifesto, he talks a great deal about the Catastrophe Theory.
	Now, I don't know what it is.
	I don't know what the Catastrophe Theory is, specifically.
	And anybody who can help with that, I would appreciate it.
	Is it like the Chaos Theory?
	I am familiar with that.
	But what is the Catastrophe Theory?
	It was offered on one of the Sunday shows, Brinkley, I believe, that he will likely go for an insanity defense.
	Matter of fact, they had Jerry Spence on talking about that.
	And Jerry Spence said, basically, that if this is a man who has the right message, but the wrong delivery, so to speak, and I'm paraphrasing what he said, That a insanity defense is quite likely, because that is saying, in essence, you don't know the difference between right and wrong.
	In other words, the message may be right, but clearly the method was so wrong that you make the case that the guy does not know the difference between right and wrong.
	And that is the way we determine I guess insanity.
	We say somebody is insane if they cannot differentiate between right and wrong.
	Jerry Spence said, These days, many intelligent people have withdrawn from society.
	And I suppose that may be true.
	Not all of them send bombs.
	I'm going to give you a couple of lines from the manifesto of the Unabomber.
	He said, for example, Quote, the industrial technological system may survive, but only at the cost of permanently reducing human beings and many other living organisms to engineered products and mere cogs in the social machine.
	End quote.
	Jerry Spence said, I suspect many Americans may agree with that.
	Do you?
	Then he goes on to say, the Unabomber, quote, industrial technological society cannot be reformed in such a way as to prevent it from progressively narrowing the sphere of human freedom.
	Now this gets right back into the very center of what we were talking about toward the end of last week, and I'm very interested in this.
	You guys know me?
	I'm right on the edge of technological developments of all kinds.
	As a matter of fact, if you want to know the truth, I'm glad they got the Unabomber, because I was afraid he might come after me.
	And he might have.
	In just about every area, computers, satellite, technology, communications, systems, you name it, and we're sitting on it right here.
	And use it!
	So, let's talk about this again.
	Let's listen to this again.
	Industrial technological society cannot be reformed in such a way as to prevent it from progressively narrowing the sphere of human freedom.
	Now that's a very serious charge, and there's probably something to it.
	It's saying that as we progress with each new technological step we take forward, We take a step backward with regard to individual freedom.
	Do you agree with that?
	He goes on, "...freedom means being in control of the life and death issues of one's existence.
	Freedom means having power, not the power to control other people, but the power to control the circumstances of one's own life."
	So, again, I think a lot of you probably would agree with that, wouldn't you?
	So, is he the Unabomber?
	Sure looks like it.
	Now they're proving how he traveled.
	They've got a bus ticket agent who recognized him, a bus driver, another bus driver in California, a Sacramento, California hotel owner, transient hotel owner, So he was in the right place at the right time to do what they will no doubt allege he did.
	In jail, it said he is uninterested in any headlines about himself.
	And he's reading a lot of very old history type books.
	Doing a lot of reading, but not concerned.
	Again, Jerry Spence.
	These days, many intelligent people withdraw from society.
	So, I don't know why.
	I'm very interested in this case.
	And the reason I'm interested, I believe, is because I am so involved in technology.
	And I had callers last week who said it came from the devil.
	It comes from the devil.
	And that I'm probably the Antichrist.
	So, I've been doing a lot of thinking about it before they began to call me the Antichrist.
	I thought about it, and I constantly think about it.
	Ruminate about technology.
	I'm in love with it, but I recognize there is a dark side.
	Anyway, if you want to comment, you're welcome to.
	Particularly on some of the things the man said.
	we'll be right back you're listening to our bills somewhere in time
	tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast a m from people in
	nineteen ninety six the
	the the
	the the video.
	Good to be here.
	Coast to coast and well, well beyond.
	Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired April 8, 1996.
	Good morning, world.
	Good to be here.
	Coast to coast and well, well beyond.
	This, of course, is called Coast to Coast AM.
	And a lot of people have been saying, well, it changes the name of the time.
	I don't think so.
	It's just a few more coasts here and there.
	That's all.
	We'll leave it that way.
	Here's a fax.
	Believe it's accurate, dear Art.
	Report today at noon on our CBS affiliate here in Sacramento.
	A pathologist has confirmed that a woman has died of the disease, the mad cow disease, that affects people.
	Now she had never been to England, worked as a counselor for the local school district in Stockton.
	The pathologist said, we just don't know why.
	But we shouldn't be concerned about eating meat and so forth, since the woman never had been to Europe.
	I would say that somebody ought to be asking some pretty hard questions.
	Mad cow disease?
	Already?
	Somebody sent me something pretty funny, which I thought I would read for you and then we'll go to the phones.
	Imagine, if you will, the leader of the 5th Invader Force speaking to the Commander-in-Chief.
	Now these are aliens, right?
	Talking about us.
	They're made out of meat.
	Meat?
	Meat.
	They're made out of meat.
	Meat?
	There's no doubt about it.
	We picked several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, probed them all the way through.
	They're completely meat.
	That's impossible.
	What about the radio signals?
	The messages to the stars?
	They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them.
	The signals come from machines.
	So, who made the machines?
	That's who we want to contact.
	They made the machines.
	That's what I'm trying to tell you.
	Meat made the machines.
	That's ridiculous.
	How can meat make a machine?
	You're asking me to believe in sentient meat?
	I'm not asking you, I'm telling you.
	These creatures are the only sentient race in the sector, and they're made out of meat.
	Maybe they're like the Orfoli.
	You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage.
	Nope.
	They're meat, and they dye meat.
	We studied them for several of their lifespans, which didn't take very long.
	Do you have any idea the lifespan of meat?
	Spare me.
	Okay, maybe they're only part meat.
	You know, like the Wedeli.
	A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside.
	Nope.
	We thought of that.
	Since they do have meat heads, like the Weddell Eye, but I told you we probed them.
	They're all meat.
	Meat.
	Through and through.
	No brain?
	Oh yes, there's a brain, all right.
	It's just that the brain is made out of meat.
	So then, what does the thinking?
	You're not understanding, are you?
	The brain does the thinking.
	The meat.
	Thinking meat?
	You're asking me to believe in thinking meat?
	Yes, thinking meat.
	Conscious meat.
	Loving meat.
	Dreaming meat.
	The meat is the whole deal.
	Are you beginning to get the picture?
	Oh my God, you're serious then?
	They're made out of meat!
	Finally, yes.
	They're indeed made out of meat.
	And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years.
	So, what does the meat have in mind?
	First, it wants to talk to us.
	Then, I imagine, it wants to explore the universe.
	Contact.
	Other life forms.
	Swap ideas and information.
	The usual.
	We're supposed to talk to meat?
	That's the idea.
	That's the message they're sending out by radio.
	Hello out there?
	Anyone home?
	That sort of thing.
	They actually do talk then.
	They use words, ideas, concepts, oh yes.
	Except they do it with meat.
	I thought you just told me they used radio.
	They do.
	But what do you think is on the radio?
	Meat sounds.
	You know how when you Slap or flap meat, it makes a noise.
	They talk by flapping their meat at each other.
	They can even sing by squirting air through their meat.
	Oh my God, singing meat!
	This is altogether just too much.
	So what do you advise?
	Officially or unofficially, both?
	Officially, we're required to contact, welcome, and log in any and all sentient races or multi-beings in the quadrant without prejudice, fear, or favor.
	Unofficially, though, I advise we erase the records and forget the whole damn thing.
	I was hoping you'd say that.
	It seems harsh, but there is a limit.
	I mean, do we really want to make contact with meat?
	Now, I agree a hundred percent.
	What's there to say?
	Hello, meat.
	How's it going?
	But will this work?
	How many planets are we dealing with here?
	Just one?
	They can travel to other planets in special meat containers.
	But they can't live on them.
	And being meat, they only travel through sea space, which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact with us pretty slim.
	Infinitesimal, actually.
	So we just pretend there's no one home in the universe.
	That's it.
	Cruel.
	But you said it yourself.
	Who wants to meet meat?
	And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you've probed, you're sure they won't remember?
	They'll be considered crackpots if they do.
	We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat.
	So, we're just a dream to them.
	A dream to meat!
	How strangely appropriate.
	We should be meat's dream.
	And we can mark this sector unoccupied?
	Good.
	Agreed.
	Officially and officially.
	Case closed.
	Any others?
	Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?
	Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class 9 star in G445 zone.
	Was in contact two galactic rotations ago.
	Wants to be friendly again.
	They always come around.
	And why not?
	Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the universe would be if one were all alone.
	And then finally, Remember the thing about duct-taping two cats back-to-back?
	Remember that?
	Somebody writes, what do you get when you duct-tape two cats back-to-back?
	Answer, about 130 stitches on your arms and face.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I'm speaking.
	I hope so.
	Great.
	Where are you calling from?
	Well, first of all, I really appreciate what you're doing for letting people become more aware of whether it be Scallion or whether it be Daniel Brinkley or whatever.
	You're giving a great service in the last few years to people's awareness.
	Thank you.
	What you call a quickening, there's another source in Greek who calls it the unveiling, which is the apocalypse.
	Well, the quickening One definition of it is the first feeling of life that a woman has when the child moves.
	So the quickening is not necessarily the end, or if it is, it's the end of one thing and the beginning of another.
	I agree.
	That's why in Greek it is called the unveiling.
	There you go.
	Not the ending, but the unveiling.
	What I wanted to mention, though, is that Daniel Brinkley, in his book, Well, yes, he did.
	As a matter of fact, I'm about to have him back on Dreamland.
	Oh, that's fantastic.
	Anyway, that has already transpired.
	I wrote this down.
	the water eventually uh... yes
	okay as a matter of fact i'm about to have him back on dreamland or a trip
	anyway that has already transpired on the i wrote this down on
	november nineteen ninety five on tom brokaw then be renewed at five
	thirty seven western standard time
	uh... he mentioned that there was an accident similar to chernobyl but half of that now they don't know
	how bad it is he mentioned half as bad in the Arctic Ocean.
	Huh!
	That's a lot.
	This is what I want people to be aware of.
	Alright, go ahead.
	Why there's an unveiling going on is that Revelations 8-8 says that a third of the waters would be dead as well as a third of the fish.
	Now when those bellies start coming up, and they will be coming up this year, Remember that we're in the middle of the trumpets of Revelation 8.
	Alright, I appreciate the call.
	I have not heard them myself, but maybe I'm not listening carefully enough.
	Hitchhikers keep talking about them.
	People take people into their cars and the stories proliferate of hitchhikers saying Gabriel's blowing the horn, or about to blow the horn, and then these people reportedly disappear.
	It's happening out here in the West.
	And I doubted it, and I got a lot of reports from police departments.
	It is occurring.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello, Lawrence.
	Hello.
	Get the vibe here.
	Thank you.
	Yeah, this is Matt Cohen once again from Idaho.
	Yes, sir.
	I was asking last week about the Unabomber's brother and what he would do with the money.
	The answer was forthcoming earlier today.
	Right.
	They will donate it, if they get it, to the families of the victims.
	Seems like a fairly noble good thing to do.
	Yes, it does.
	As far as the Unabomber himself, you know, you get all these stories of, you know, Apparently single white guys lurking out there in the shadows are going to get everybody.
	Me being a single white guy, I wonder if there is some monster within me or something.
	Do you feel it, sir?
	Do you feel the monster lurking somewhere down there, just barely held down by your strong will?
	Sometimes I feel that.
	These people like the Unabomber, they do have some kind of a vision of what the bad things are going on.
	It's like you were saying, I'm fascinated by what this guy says.
	His method of getting attention is quite antisocial.
	But, my goodness, some of the things he says are just so right on.
	I know.
	That worries me as well.
	The man has an IQ in excess of 150.
	That's a bright guy.
	By the way, while we're back on that subject, Gerard, yes, there is similarity between aspects of catastrophe theory and chaos theory.
	In that both theories make predictions about unstable systems.
	Systems which may at first glance look simple, but then may suddenly change their state without warning.
	That's from Ron with a master's degree in math in Birmingham, Alabama.
	So I guess both theories look to the probability or even inevitability That a system that is complex, beyond a certain point, and working, will at some point become unstable and stop working.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air, hello.
	Well, hi, this is Pete in Queezy, Portland.
	Hi, Pete, how are you doing?
	A couple of things.
	Earthquakes and the Unabomber.
	Yes.
	Easter Sunday morning, about six in the morning, we had a couple of earthquakes.
	One was far off in the ocean.
	Yeah.
	And the other was about four miles under Mount Hood.
	Yes, I've been hearing about that.
	Two point something.
	You think Mount Hood's about to come to life?
	Well, we hope not.
	Apparently Lewis and Clark had just missed the last small eruptive phase.
	Well, I think it's obvious with all of the volcanoes around the world now beginning to come to life.
	It wouldn't surprise me if Mount Hood began to rumble.
	It'd be a real mess, all right?
	Oh, we got a multi-million dollar skiing and resort industry up there, and it's downhill to Portland from there, you know?
	Well, it's rather obvious to me that magma be flowing.
	Well, off to the Unabomber.
	Yes.
	Now, as far as I can figure out from his manifesto, he thinks that technology is what's keeping us down.
	Well, that's not quite accurate.
	He thinks technology eventually will take us down.
	In other words, as we advance technologically, socially, we regress.
	Well, that is kind of true, but we started it.
	Remember a while back we discussed the different modes of living, like migratory nomadism and agriculture.
	and uh... building of cities when you when you build a city it's almost like a nuclear
	reactor where you bring uh...
	uh... uranium atoms together they exchange particles and produce heat
	or you bring people together get them to set aside some of their freedoms they exchange
	information and ideas and produce technology as a product
	yes i do Now, I'm thinking that the end result, well, there's a number of ways of reforming that.
	One is to have a big population crash.
	That'll stop the reaction.
	Well, that'll stop a lot.
	Thank you, Pete.
	Look, let's make the case against technology.
	Much as I hate to do that, I understand to some degree what it is doing.
	It is depersonalizing society.
	In other words, in the, quote, good old days, people had to have contact with each other.
	You had to do that.
	Stories, news, current events, what was going on in the community, had to be relayed from person to person.
	This necessitated contact between people.
	For those who wanted to be informed, or hear the latest rumor, or whatever it was, there was social connection with technology, the Internet, things like Videon, which I just dearly love, and I really think they're more positive than negative, but they do allow people to sequester themselves and not have the kind of social contact they once had.
	So that is certainly a possible downside to the technological revolution and probably what the Unabomber to
	some degree was talking about.
	Sound of rocket launching.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello, how are you doing?
	I'm fine.
	This is Fred from New Orleans.
	Hi, Fred.
	How are you doing?
	I think technology is deceptive.
	It's basically like a tool of separation.
	and what not.
	I think the thing about technology is that it's deceptive.
	It's basically, I see it like a tool of separation.
	I think the more that you have, it gives one a sense of power.
	I think ultimately a false sense of Godhood.
	Well, it is power.
	Now, I think you might be stretching it.
	Godhood?
	I don't know about that.
	Not godhood in the straight-up sense of... Information, clearly, is power.
	There's no question about it.
	Sure, sure.
	I think, essentially, you know, the more you have, the more that you want to have.
	And I think the more, it's just like anything else, power corrupts.
	And I think that, you know, one tends to think that the more that I have, that I don't need anything else.
	I can do anything I want to do, and I think that in and of itself is dangerous.
	I think it's also an assertion of self.
	I just think that it basically causes separation.
	I think it can almost be attributed to that.
	I was going to go so far as to make a biblical analogy like the apple.
	I think people do idolize and worship it.
	I really do.
	there's something to that and I think maybe the fear that I think some people
	make sense in it is that there is something there's something wrong with
	it when you get out of control I think people do idolize and worship it I
	really do I think they may not be aware that they do that But I think a lot of people do worship technology.
	That's quite an accusation.
	And I'll think it over.
	I appreciate your call, sir.
	I don't think I worship technology.
	I enjoy it.
	I plunge myself into it.
	But worship, no.
	Technology and all it brings, to me, there's no confusion between that and deity.
	Or God?
	So, I think I reject that.
	I'm very thoughtful about the implications of technology, but I think I reject the argument that I worship it, or that anybody does.
	Oh, maybe somebody does.
	But technology is but man's doings.
	I mean, we're the ones bringing it.
	And if God didn't want us to bring technology to the world, then why is he allowing us to do it?
	One might ask.
	Or you will!
	One might answer.
	Anyway, we'll be right back.
	Welcome to the World of Music.
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired April 8th, 1996.
	Here I am and you're listening to live, overnight talk radio because this radio station cares enough to have live talk radio on.
	Morning everybody, I'm Art Bell.
	Talking about the Unabomber, technology, a lot of what he's had to say.
	Jerry Spence was on over the weekend saying, perhaps, an insanity plea.
	In other words, a man with a right message who doesn't know right from wrong.
	Interesting.
	But here's a faxer who faxed me the Unabomber's written motives for his essay.
	Quote, If we, plural, had never done anything violent and had submitted the present writings to a publisher, they probably would not have been accepted.
	If they had been accepted and published, they probably would not have attracted many readers, because it's more fun to watch the entertainment put out by the media than to read a sober essay.
	Even if these writings had attracted many readers, most of them would have forgotten what they had read as their minds were flooded by the massive material to which the media exposes them.
	In order to get our message, again plural, our message, before the public, with some chance of making a lasting impression, we've had to kill people."
	End quote.
	Now that exposes a mind that very well, indeed, understands it is doing wrong.
	For a specific reason, and would seem to me to rule out the possibility of an insanity plea.
	Interesting.
	All right, reminding you, we do have our international line up and running, and whether you're listening to us long distance on AM or on the internet, and soon, on one million watts of shortwave, no matter how you're hearing us, if you would like to contact us from any other country, Fine.
	I've lost it again.
	Try to keep all my stuff together here.
	What you do is dial the USA Direct Access number, whatever that is for your country, or get the operator, and then simply dial 800-893-0903 from anywhere in the world.
	800-893-0903 from anywhere in the world.
	That number again, 800-893-0903.
	Now, the catastrophe theory.
	Tom Strong, that's T-H-O-M, is known for his development of catastrophe theory,
	a mathematical treatment of continuous action producing a discontinuous result.
	Bye.
	Hmm.
	His theory is an attempt to describe, in a way that is impossible, using differential calculus, those situations in which gradually changing forces lead to so-called catastrophes, or abrupt changes.
	The theory has widespread application in the physical and biological sciences, and in the social sciences.
	So that apparently is one that this man with a IQ of 150 or better followed.
	Somebody sent me an unkind cartoon about Montana.
	It is pretty funny.
	It shows this long, long straight road, apparently cutting through Montana, headed toward the mountains.
	And it says, there's a sign that says, Welcome to Montana.
	Thank you for not blowing up anything.
	And then there's a sign on the right Says speed limit, you name it.
	And then there's another sign that says anti-government militias, 185 miles.
	Nutcase bombers, 230 miles.
	Junction to Idaho and white separatists, supremists rather, 315 miles.
	Cold.
	I don't know where I think this came from.
	From Phoenix.
	The poor people of Montana.
	All of a sudden, I don't think Montana's been this much in the news since it joined the Union.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello, this is Jack in Charleston, South Carolina.
	Hi, Jack.
	I was wondering if the Unabomber had the advantage to be able to use probably one of the highest forms of technology, in other words, a time machine, if he would do it.
	To go back to the past?
	I rather imagine at the moment he would.
	They say he's studying history books and reading books on the medieval times.
	Oh, I wonder if he would go forward to see if his theories prove true.
	Well, it's a good question.
	If you could go forward in time, do you think his theories will prove to be true?
	I really don't think so, because you always have a pretty strong human spirit.
	You know, I heard An attorney, I think, talking about the Unabomber, when he goes to trial, probably won't even be put on the stand.
	But I think that, uh, what would be the point?
	I think he'll demand to go on the stand.
	In other words, just like what he printed in the Washington Post.
	Of course, the thing is, if it's a federal trial, it will not be telecast.
	Will there still be reports coming out from it?
	Yes.
	True.
	If he didn't go on the stand, that'd be his prime opportunity.
	What would be the point of, you know, sending bombs and running his manifesto if he's going to sit quietly in the courtroom?
	It's true.
	I appreciate your call, and you're right.
	I'm sure it'll have something to say.
	Here's another quote from the Unabomber.
	A lot of people are sending them to me.
	Thus science marches on blindly without regard to the real welfare of the human race.
	Or to any other standard.
	Obedient only to the psychological needs of the scientists and the government officials and corporation executives who provide the funds for research.
	And this ABC News, of course, reported the maintenance supervisor of the airport that Secretary Brown's plane was supposed to land at killed himself after an investigation, though it was decided the suicide was not connected at all with the crash.
	Isn't that interesting?
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Mr. Bell.
	That's me.
	I had a couple of comments that I'd like to share with you tonight.
	Fire away.
	I live in Saskatchewan, Canada.
	And on the CTV national news tonight, they said that the FBI had found an unexploded bomb.
	That's right.
	At the Unabomber's residence.
	That's right.
	And had to defuse it.
	So I guess he was planning on more.
	Yeah, apparently.
	You asked earlier if you figured the American people would support another Asian war or would be willing to participate.
	Yep.
	I don't know how Americans would feel about it, but I don't think you could find anybody in Canada that would.
	Not after everything that has happened over there in the last 50 years.
	I rather suspect that the same answer is going to be true in America if Korea suddenly exploded, and it sure could.
	You know, they're kind of tight-lipped on this, but there are 2 million people starving to death in North Korea.
	Making moves into the DMZ, sending hundreds of heavily armed military into the DMZ is very serious.
	Well, it is, and I think there were enough American youngsters lost in the Vietnam War that nobody will ever be willing to take a chance on a repeat of something like that.
	I agree with you, and I thank you for the call.
	You know, obviously they're trying to, to some degree, downplay this.
	And they're suggesting that Korea is, in essence, doing this just to kind of rattle South Korea's cage prior to an election, as China rattled Taiwan's.
	But there really are about two million people already starving to death in North Korea.
	North Korea is not a rational country.
	Its people may be, but I'll tell you, if anything will drive a country to war, It is starvation.
	And if there's anything that will cause an irrational communist government to act, it is internal trouble.
	They will inevitably cause external trouble to save their people.
	So, there you've got it.
	I don't rule it out.
	You should not either.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi, Al.
	Hi.
	I'm calling from Canada.
	Another Canadian call.
	All right.
	All right.
	I have a story that might shock you because I know it shocked me when it happened.
	All right.
	I've never heard of it before.
	In the 80s, my husband suffered a massive heart attack.
	I'm sorry.
	And we were waiting.
	We knew it was bad.
	And there was much hope.
	But 15 days went by.
	He lingered.
	And we were in the lounge.
	Now, he was in the intensive care.
	And we were in the lounge, just across the hall from the intensive care.
	And, um, just about one door down.
	Mm-hmm.
	Like, you get the picture?
	Yes, I do, yes.
	Okay.
	So, we were waiting patiently.
	Because it was, we knew, a very bad day.
	It might be the day.
	And about three o'clock in the afternoon, the doctor opened the lounge door and walked in.
	And I looked up and he just shook his head up and down and turned and walked out.
	And as he did that, and you're going to be shocked when you hear this, my husband's soul came through that lounge and we had the window opened in
	the lounge because at that time there was no air conditioning in the hospital at that particular
	hospital and we had that window wide open and it came right through and it was about and right
	out the window went right out the window let me stop you and ask you yes
	Did you actually see this?
	I actually seen it with my own eyes.
	Alright, and what did it look like?
	Describe as best you can what you saw.
	Alright.
	It was white in color.
	I'm a bit nervous because I know everybody's going to call me a nut.
	It was white in color.
	It was between 12 to 15 inches long, like in that range.
	It was moving so fast, it was very hard, you know, to say the exact range, but it was, I would say, 12 inches long.
	And it was pure energy.
	Just nothing but pure energy.
	It was like cloud-like, but not fluffy like a cloud.
	More compacted.
	No, I understand.
	Yes.
	I don't, uh, listen, ma'am.
	I don't, I don't think you're a nut.
	I believe this, and I thank you for the call.
	Listen, everybody.
	I do believe we have souls.
	I have always believed that.
	And I have my own belief in God, no matter who may think I'm the Antichrist.
	And I'm convinced we have souls.
	Human beings have souls.
	Now, there have been actual experiments.
	I wonder if you knew this.
	In which people, at the moment of death, have been measured, their weight carefully monitored, and at the very moment of death, there has been a detectable three ounce change in their weight.
	People have variously tried to describe this as exhalation of gases and a lot of other things, but what I'm telling you is scientifically established fact.
	Now, you can do with that what you want.
	You can believe it, you can disbelieve it, but it is true.
	Science has discovered there is an actual change in weight at the moment of death.
	So, a soul?
	Yes, I'm not surprised.
	Do I think you're a nut?
	No, I don't.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Art?
	Yes!
	Hey, uh, I'm uh, Jay from Baton Rouge.
	Baton Rouge.
	WGBO country.
	Didn't get a lot of calls from Baton Rouge.
	And I don't think all things but Unabomber.
	Yes.
	Have you gotten any late latest news?
	Well I think so yes.
	Well because one thing I heard just now on the CBS News we get hourly.
	Yes sir.
	Is that apparently they found names of the victims.
	Yes.
	Well, that would seem to cinch it.
	Have you heard that?
	No, that's a new one.
	It seems to me, Bill, a couple of navels in the coffin there.
	I wonder if there were any names of people that were on his list but had not been tended to yet.
	I'd hate to be on that list, wouldn't you?
	Yes.
	And I wouldn't be surprised to find myself on it.
	One thing I was thinking about just now was that Can you see it coming where one day the Unabomber's Manifesto will be required reading in college campuses?
	Yes.
	Can you see that coming?
	Yes.
	To me that seems sad, I guess.
	How people kind of glorify someone like that.
	Well, it is sad because of the manner of the delivery of the message.
	Did you hear what I read a little while ago about what the, uh, Unabomber wrote with regard to why he did it?
	In other words, why he killed?
	Because, uh... Because nobody otherwise would listen.
	That's right.
	You know what?
	He's probably right.
	That's true.
	He's probably right.
	That doesn't make it right.
	That just makes him right.
	And I think it makes him sane.
	Mm-hmm.
	In other words, thank you very much, he was very much aware of the wrong he was doing.
	Killing to make sure his message got out.
	I would suspect, though I don't know, that he regards himself as a martyr.
	I really think that's the way he thinks about himself.
	that he is a martyr necessary to get that information out.
	Those of you trying to get through my international line has been ringing
	three or four times now and I just haven't been able to get to it.
	So, I'm going to go ahead and close this out.
	So, if you're trying to get through, please keep trying to get through, and we will catch it at the right moment.
	We treat that line as we do all the others, and allow it to ring until it is answered.
	Obviously, we don't want people on hold from China.
	So, the way to do it, if you're anywhere in the world, but the USA, Canada, and Mexico, call your AT&T USA direct access number, then dial 800-893-0903.
	You know a place I really want to hear from?
	And I know I have a lot of listeners there.
	The Tahitian Islands.
	Tahiti.
	Or Guam.
	Have listeners on Guam, too.
	So, um, I believe, uh, you could probably call from Guam.
	Somebody ought to try it.
	The USA Direct Access number followed by 800-893-0903.
	And from any point in the whole world, it will be toll free.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello, just wait till I turn off my radio.
	All right, we'll do that.
	And tell us where you are.
	This is the lady truck driver from Saskatchewan, Canada.
	Very good.
	How are you tonight?
	I am fine.
	Okay, I wanted to say one thing.
	I heard about the nurse seeing the soul, spirit or something leave a dead person's body.
	That's right.
	When I was in the UFO, I distinctly remember them putting me back into my body.
	I am serious.
	I've discussed this with Buddy Wynn, that's all documented.
	You remember who putting you back in your body?
	The aliens.
	They slid me back into my body.
	Like a banana back into a banana peel?
	You betcha.
	I know people will say I'm a kook, people will say this can't be happening, but I am 100% sure That I am not my body.
	This has just got to be a house.
	Well, how do you know that it was aliens and not angels?
	Okay, angels?
	I don't know.
	Oh, you're easy then.
	I'm easy.
	I was in a UFO.
	I was in a ship in the sky that was saucer-shaped.
	I know that.
	That's reality.
	There were six other drivers behind me that saw the spaceship.
	You mean truck drivers?
	Yes!
	We were all on the road together.
	This is documented.
	There was, uh, I don't know if I should say their names, the trucking company's names over the radio.
	They may not appreciate that.
	No, they might not.
	So there, there was in all four company, different company trucks out there with six trucks involved altogether.
	Well, that is impressive.
	And you probably ought to... Do you have their names?
	I mean... Yes, everybody can be tracked down and talked to.
	If I had to, I could do all that.
	I wouldn't be saying this over national radio.
	Yeah, I understand.
	Do you know what I would like to do?
	What?
	See if you can arrange this and contact me privately.
	Get me the names and phone numbers of two or three of these people.
	And I'll bring them all on at once.
	I'll try.
	These are truck drivers, you know, nice and shiny armor in the dark.
	I know, I know, I know.
	I will go out of my way to try to arrange it if you can get me the information.
	I'll try.
	All right?
	Okay.
	Thank you, dear.
	I'll give it a shot.
	I'm willing to do anything like that.
	You know me.
	It's very impressive when you have a group of people willing to tell Or who have seen the same thing and are willing to verify.
	Very, very interesting, and I'd be more than willing to do that.
	With that, we'll pause here at the bottom of the hour and be back with more in one moment.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 8th, 1996.
	Music Music
	Music You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier
	Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 8th, 1996.
	This just in, dear Mr. Bell.
	Kogo News just said there are more... That's San Diego, K-O-G-O.
	There are more illegal aliens that got hurt and killed in Temecula, California.
	They were fleeing from Border Patrol agents.
	Kogo said the agents were observing the non-pursuit policy When the aliens flipped the vehicle into a ditch.
	Radicals are blaming the Border Patrol and the Immigration Service for being prejudice.
	Yours truly, Border Patrol.
	And then this.
	Hi Art.
	I wonder if the Unabomber is listening to you right now.
	if he were listening what would you say to him
	uh...
	I don't know.
	More to the point, if he was listening or I could interview him, what would I ask?
	What would you ask?
	I think that I would ask him how he expects all of this to unfold.
	Again, this is a man with a IQ, it is said, of plus above 150, which is way up into the genius category.
	And so I might ask him how it would unfold.
	And while we're on that subject, this.
	Hi Art.
	Stumbled your way by accident while sleepless about six months ago on KSFO in San Francisco.
	Some good friends of mine own Higher Octave, so there was an additional link besides loving the show.
	Brief comment.
	Much spiritual wisdom speaks of Impermanence.
	In other words, nothing is to remain the same.
	Destruction must happen as a precursor to creation.
	Aha!
	The quickening.
	So, how about opening a forum for what people believe might be after the destruction of the world as we know it?
	This would provide a juicy second act.
	All the best, your pal.
	No name.
	Well, that is an interesting question, and it's the one I might pose if I were to be able to, you know, ask the Unabomber anything.
	In other words, he obviously foresees a catastrophe occurring, catastrophic something, and I've had those feelings myself.
	But it will not be the end.
	Oh, the end for some, or even many, But not, in my opinion, for mankind.
	So the question is, if there is a catastrophic occurrence, whatever it would be, social, astronomical, you name it, geophysical, what would come after?
	In other words, if something, in essence, destroyed the present technological civilization that we've got, what do you think would rise like a phoenix from the ashes?
	Oh, that is a juicy question, isn't it?
	Anybody have any thoughts?
	On the international line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Oh, no, wait a minute.
	You've got to press the button for a start.
	Now, on the international line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Oh, hello, Mr. Bell.
	Yes, indeed.
	This is Bob.
	Hi, Bob.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Belize on Key Cocker.
	Ah, in Belize.
	Yes, sir.
	Well, that's absolutely excellent.
	This is our second call.
	Are you the man who called from Belize before?
	Yes, yes.
	I went down to the bank.
	I thought I'd put a little thought in your mind on the new beginning.
	Yes, sure.
	Or maybe not the new beginning, but the money.
	The new money coming out?
	Yes.
	Uh, down here I've noticed that all of a sudden that they're giving a better exchange rate for traveler's checks than they are for American cash.
	What is the, if I might ask, what is the currency that you use in Belize?
	Belizean currency is their own currency.
	I think it's kind of attached to the American greenback.
	I'm not sure.
	Because they're like we are.
	They're in a deficit spending, too.
	Oh, they are, huh?
	Yeah.
	Well, you say, so you're getting a better exchange rate now for the dollar to Belize currency?
	No, I'm getting a better... I would get a better exchange rate if I had traveler's checks.
	Well, it wouldn't be anything to do with the fact that the new American dollars are going to be foreign exchange dollars.
	true and most travel agents are telling people that uh...
	pretty much as you travel throughout the world right now
	for whatever reason travelers checks are worth more and i don't know why
	uh... it wouldn't be anything to do with the fact that uh...
	the new american dollars are going to be foreign exchange dollars from the forty
	percent they are guaranteed gold and
	american uh...
	domestic is only going to be what, script?
	Um, well what you might do, you could do me a big, big favor.
	Can you lay your, can you lay your hands on a hundred dollar bill?
	New one?
	Yeah.
	Uh, no.
	That's too bad because what we're hearing is, uh, the Russians are very concerned and they're saying the new Well, I'm going to leave here probably before the end of the month.
	I'm going to be transferring some money over, American money, but I would suspect I'm going to get greenbacks instead of the new ones.
	If that be the case, I'll get the new stuff.
	I'll surely give you a call from Houston.
	Um, I will look forward to that.
	Is that where you're headed back to?
	Oh yeah, that's where I'll be heading as soon as I leave here.
	Houston and, uh, traveling the roads of the states.
	All right, my friend.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	And, uh, take care.
	That's my believes caller.
	Sitting down there, listening to us on a Sony Walkman.
	I didn't ask him this time whether it was in the hammock or not.
	But laying in a hammock, listening to WOAI on a Sony Walkman.
	A lot of Americans down there enjoying Belize.
	And again, if you are anywhere outside this country, as that man is, and will be for a while yet, simply call the AT&T direct access number for whatever country you're in.
	It varies.
	and then dial 800-893-0903.
	Doesn't matter where in the world you are.
	Even Communist China.
	Uh, the AT&T USA direct access number, and then 800-893-0903.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning.
	Let me turn down the dish here, just a second.
	The dish, huh?
	Good morning to you on satellite F. F1, Channel 5.
	That's where we are.
	Yeah, this is Murfin, Montana.
	Yes, sir.
	Um...
	I always thought it was interesting.
	Nobody's brought up the fact that the Freeman and some of the militia up here throughout the year have stated that they thought the government was controlling the weather.
	There are a lot of people who believe that.
	Well, it's one of the things that they're claiming.
	And also one of the concerns, published in the paper, one of the concerns was that the government was going to
	bombard them with high frequency vibrations.
	Tell you what, I'm going to read you something.
	Just stay on the line and listen to this, alright?
	Okay.
	I debated whether I really ought to read this, whether it would be a violation of this man's security oath, but I'm not going to give his name.
	Dear Art, In 1990, I was stationed aboard the USS Ouellette.
	And was involved in the early stages of HAARP testing.
	My ship was outfitted with classified equipment by the Naval Research Labs and several NRL technicians were aboard.
	Accompanying us on this mission was the submarine, the USS Queenfish.
	The test took place off the coast of Alaska around May, I believe.
	A special antenna system was erected fore and aft And about 15 minutes prior to the testing, the Queenfish was ordered to submerge, and the crew of my ship was ordered below decks into, quotes here, deep shelter.
	Deep shelter is normally used as a defense against nuclear fallout, or EMP.
	My deep shelter station was in the transmitter room of the ship's hull-mounted sonar system.
	This system was offline, powered down during the test.
	At test time, we suffered a massive power surge, and my transmitters lit up like a Christmas tree.
	All 572 transmitter modules activated, and the pulse blew out all 572 fuses.
	We were told that we were involved in missions dealing with national security.
	This is the first time that I've told anyone about this.
	With a power surge that strong, could it have had some adverse effect on me or the rest of the crew?
	Could you please consult Dr. Begich concerning this?
	Please do not mention my name on the air, and he gives his name and his position on that ship.
	What does that sound like to you, sir?
	Yeah, that sounds like it.
	There's no mention, though, of any physiological effects or mental effects there, though.
	No, in fact, he's asking whether there may have been any on him.
	Okay, so not apparent while they were doing it, huh?
	But I regard this as genuine, and I returned the email and asked him if he wanted to be an anonymous guest on the program.
	Well, I hope he responds.
	So do I. Mm-hmm.
	One more thing, Art.
	Remember when this whole thing came down?
	You'll find this sooner, I think.
	When the whole thing came down a couple of weeks ago, and they had the scuffle at the courthouse in Billings.
	Yes, I recall.
	You got a call from a gentleman who claimed he was a free man and he was arrested for not having... He was wanted on a warrant for not having... A driver's license.
	A driver's license.
	Yes.
	Right.
	We all know who he is.
	His first name is...
	I won't mention his name.
	His first name is Steve.
	Steve.
	Figures.
	Alright, thank you very much.
	So, there you are.
	He's Steve.
	I don't... I'm beginning to doubt, number one, whether this is going to end soon.
	A couple of people have left the compound slash farmhouse, whatever you want to call it.
	It's up to you.
	It doesn't look like a compound to me.
	It looks like a series of farmhouses.
	They're calling it a compound, though.
	And I suppose you might do that, get away with it, based on the number of arms they believe are in there.
	That's about the only way you can call that a compound.
	I just don't, number one, think it's going to end quickly.
	And number two, I'm worried that it is not going to end peacefully.
	The late signs are that the Freemans' condition for coming out Is that they will be tried.
	Tried by their own common law justice system.
	Not ours, but their own system.
	That is, the one they devised.
	Well, I guess we know how that verdict would turn out, eh?
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	It's Elizabeth in Vancouver.
	Hi.
	I have to say that I am completely fed up with Art Bell is the Antichrist stuff, and as of now, I want the real Antichrist To call in, identify himself, if he has the guts.
	And vindicate me.
	Yes, and take the pressure off Art.
	Whoever you are and you know who you are.
	Yes.
	Anyway.
	Maybe it serves his purpose at the moment to have me thought of as the one.
	Well, it must.
	I mean, that would be a really evil plot, wouldn't it?
	Yes.
	Anyway, I have two points.
	The Unabomber's manifesto is already being taught in college.
	You know, college is not like Sunday school, where they make you believe something.
	Somebody last week, Elizabeth, called and said if you could go 100 or 200 years into the future, Would you find the Unabomber treated as a hero in the history books?
	No, because the only way we can survive is to have an alternative technology, which was already perfected by the 1970s.
	It just has not been put in place because we are clinging to this defective paradigm, which I talk about all the time, which I've been stalking since the 1980s myself.
	And it's really a shame that this brilliant, talented guy, and if I had his address, I would have written to him.
	And ask him to join my project.
	It's too bad that he put his energies into blowing people up, because you cannot get rid of a defective paradigm by blowing up the people who are enrolled in it.
	Well, he talked to his motivation, though, in doing what he did, and I think he destroyed any possibility of an insanity plea while doing so, because he said, look, here, the message would not have gone out, people certainly would not have read it, had I not killed.
	And so that's why we killed.
	And is he wrong?
	Well, I think he's wrong, and obviously... No, no, no, but is he wrong about that?
	The message would not have gone out unless he killed?
	Yeah.
	He's absolutely wrong!
	I mean, the Art Bell Show is getting the message out better than any other medium I can think of at the moment.
	Maybe so, but it's because he killed Elizabeth.
	That his message went out?
	Yep.
	But my point, Art, is that if the paradigm is defective, you cannot change the paradigm by killing the people who are enrolled in that paradigm.
	I mean, for example, the assumptions that are stated on this show all the time, that human beings are destroying the planet, that science is evil, that technology is bad, that the world is overpopulated, none of those assumptions are true in the least!
	How do you know?
	Because technology is not necessarily bad.
	My best evidence is Sir Joseph Needham's 12-volume brilliant study of technology and science in ancient China.
	Ancient China, which has a completely different paradigm of nature and the environment than we have, developed a very sophisticated technology based on natural materials.
	For example, bamboo has the tensile strength of steel.
	We don't have to have this particular destructive paradigm.
	I mean, we're stuck because Jesus pulled up the fig tree twice.
	That's our problem.
	We're enrolled in a paradigm that is not from our own classical culture, which had a very good accommodation with nature.
	In our culture, four new inventions were introduced each century.
	All right, Elizabeth, I've got to stop.
	Conservative, conservative.
	All right, I've got to stop.
	Conservatives, conservatives.
	Here we go.
	Good place, actually, to stop.
	Thank you very much.
	We'll be right back.
	Oh, I don't believe it.
	Art Bell.
	Yes, sir.
	How are you?
	Fine.
	This is Mike from Tampa, Florida.
	Hi, Mike.
	Oh, listen.
	You know, I want to ask you.
	You know, a subject we haven't come across in a long time was a good old alien autopsy.
	Well, you know what?
	Yeah.
	Not any, not one person has yet knocked a foolproof hole through it.
	Well, you might have just met one right now.
	Let's hear it.
	Okay.
	Mr. Santilli did a real nice number on this one.
	Let's go to the film itself.
	Yes.
	If you noticed of all the cute little items that are on there, all the 1940 items, if you recall the clock, for example.
	I do.
	Okay.
	Um, at 1940, 1950s, at that particular time, everything, and I mean everything, that includes the toilet paper, was military.
	The clock was civilian.
	It was not a military clock.
	It was a 12-hour clock.
	Right.
	Yes, uh-huh.
	That's number one.
	Number two... That's not proof, though.
	No.
	Number two, why don't you see any flashes of anybody taking photographs?
	Well, it is suggested that in the further episodes yet to come, you do.
	You do see flashes.
	You see someone taking photographs.
	Well, you don't see it.
	You see flashes.
	Okay.
	All right, let's go to number three.
	I think this is how he did it.
	Mr. Santilli went to Hollywood and found an antique store.
	Found a working 1940-1950 circuit reel-to-reel that actually works, also with film that we've never used.
	Just one little problem.
	Yeah?
	This film that was used, according to a photographic expert that I had on the program who analyzed a frame of the film, said that it had to have been exposed within two or three years of its being purchased.
	Okay.
	Maximum.
	But also you had a guest on the air who said that it can also be frozen.
	Yeah.
	That implies a conspiracy that spans, you know, a lot of years.
	Well, if they want to test the chemical, if they want to test the film and the age of it, why didn't they test the labels that were on the can or the ink that was on the label?
	That's a lot easier to test the age of.
	Well, there's going to be more testing ahead.
	I mean, look... I could tell you that it wasn't an alien they did an autopsy on.
	Uh, how can you tell me that?
	Huh?
	I think he went to a medical center, he found some college boys who were doing some, studying some forensic medicine, and he said, hey boys, would you like to make some money and pull off the greatest scam ever?
	Yeah, but see, you're just giving me, I think, here's how it could have been done.
	You're not giving me proof.
	Well, you don't have to.
	It doesn't matter.
	But what I'm saying is, if I was to pull this off myself, this is how I would pull it off.
	And it wouldn't take me much money to do it.
	I can get all the material.
	You can get all that material, Art.
	You can find the people who will do it.
	Now, I can tell you this for a fact.
	This is what I believe firmly.
	Okay, myself.
	Well, let us differentiate between what you're calling... Alright, let me tell you a fact, and then let me tell you what I believe is a fact.
	These are different.
	Alright, what I believe is a fact.
	I correct myself.
	Yes.
	Quickly.
	You're going into, uh...
	The hour now, I think.
	I absolutely am, sir.
	Can I hold, or?
	Yeah, you can hold.
	Okay, I'll hold on then.
	Alright, we'll get back to you.
	You're listening to ArcBell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 8th, 1996.
	This is a trailer for the game.
	I'm going to be playing as a woman.
	This is a trailer for the game.
	I'm going to be playing as a woman.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 8th, 1996.
	And I am indeed here.
	Hello, everybody.
	Good to be here.
	All right, back now to my caller.
	You're back on the air, sir.
	How are you, Art?
	I'm fine.
	I should make an apology.
	I guess I should.
	Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I do apologize.
	I should have said I I firmly believe, personally, that I think Mr. Santelli pulled off a stunt on everyone.
	Well, that's entirely acceptable.
	Thank you very much.
	As we would say in Tampa, we think he's full of cacalotoro.
	Speaking of Mr. Ray Santelli, wasn't he involved with a particular diary in the 1970s involving Hitler?
	I don't know.
	He might have been.
	That he has researched... That he has proven wrong or something?
	No, that I don't know.
	No, I'm not aware that was in his past, no.
	Oh, okay.
	Anyway, we're where we are, getting back to the film.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	This is the way, if I was to do this, or if you were to do this, this is the way I would do it.
	Well, the best proof you could give us would be to duplicate it.
	Right, this is how I would duplicate it.
	Well, why don't you do it?
	Why don't I do it?
	I don't have that kind of money.
	So it would have taken a lot of money and planning from way back then.
	I'm sure he did a little research.
	He probably had a couple of grand to blow.
	I think all it would take really.
	Look how much he made out of it.
	Why do you think people like Stan Winston Who made, you know, did so many of the good things in Jurassic Park said he couldn't duplicate it.
	I mean, if you could, I mean, just a commoner.
	And Stan Winston couldn't.
	How do you figure that?
	Well, he said that to you on the air, though.
	He said that.
	See, I'm beginning to think you didn't even see the alien autopsy.
	I saw the alien autopsy.
	I went to a UFO seminar that was here in Tampa.
	Oh, I see.
	Well, you see, when Fox Network showed it, they had Stan Winston and others on.
	Right.
	And that's where Stan Winston said... I remember seeing that.
	Oh, you do?
	And I remember hearing him say that.
	Oh, you do?
	Oh, that's good.
	Right.
	But also, probably nine out of ten you know the way that they do their cute little editing, and probably they edit out maybe asking him if he thinks it's fake, and I'll bet you two to one he said, yeah.
	But of course, we can't say that for fact.
	Well gee, if that was true then, wouldn't you think after the program, Stan Winston would have gone to all the papers and said, they took me out of context, I didn't say any such thing?
	Nah, I don't think so.
	He wouldn't?
	Nah.
	He'd let a misstatement like that stand?
	Sure, why not?
	Oh well, alright.
	Well listen, I gotta go.
	That's a little hard to deal with.
	Here's a fax from somebody in AT&T.
	That's cool.
	Aren't I wonder what the Unabomber's remedy would be?
	A 10x12 cabin without running water and electricity.
	Hey, that's smart.
	Thought I'd give you a blast from the past.
	He he he ha.
	Down and out in the wonderful banana republic of the state of Louisiana.
	Signed, Megan.
	Then it says recycled paper at the bottom.
	Didn't print recycled paper on this side.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yeah, Art, I'd like to make a comment about the North and South Korea situation.
	Yes.
	You said earlier in the first half hour of the show that you were wondering if American people would back that up or not.
	And I think it's pretty much a given that they won't.
	But a situation like that, I don't think they're going to have a chance to basically take a poll because
	it's a lot different than bosnia because so you start to talk real
	they really have real parties they have armor
	if air force you know if a lot different than bosnia
	medical polls again uh... for bosnia's uh...
	or people to one against her so our ballpark
	well uh... so far so good uh... in bosnia but you see if korea develops
	into a quote situation in quote then uh... it's going to be an immediate massive war
	They've got well over a million soldiers ready to come across the DMZ.
	And sending hundreds of very heavily armed soldiers into the DMZ actually is an act of war.
	Right, it's a violation of the truce that they signed.
	It absolutely is, yes.
	Anything could happen over there.
	Right.
	We're not going to have a chance to take a poll.
	Should war break out, there's going to be hundreds dead probably in the first hour, I would say.
	That's correct, yes.
	What they would do, thank you very much for the call, is they would depend on the element of surprise.
	They would quickly take as much geography as they could.
	They would try a lightning move across Uh, the DMZ and, you know, it could begin anyway.
	All it takes is one shot.
	One shot!
	The South Koreans are warning the North Koreans, any more armed people in the DMZ and they will shoot them!
	Shoot them!
	So, one shot, and it's rock and roll time.
	This is, uh, very serious.
	Wildcard line, you're on the air, good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	Gary from Santa Rosa.
	How are you doing tonight?
	I'm fine.
	KSRO.
	Absolutely.
	Yes, sir.
	Question about what would happen after the disaster and how technology would advance?
	Let us say the Unabomber and others who believe as he believes with less violence in trying to get the message across are correct.
	Let's say that the technological civilization crashes and burns.
	No doubt.
	Many would die.
	Something awful would happen.
	I believe it may occur.
	But then what?
	What would rise from the ashes?
	Well, there's sort of two paths I see here.
	One is the idea that, oh, technology caused this, so let's not have any technology beyond a certain sort of rustic point.
	So there would be almost a religious or moral It's sort of like the Chinese Revolution against anything academic.
	Absolutely.
	It wouldn't be a question of suppressing a Galileo, or a Buckminster Fuller, or a Francis Bacon.
	People like that just simply wouldn't be allowed to exist.
	They'd be in sort of a steady state where, yep, we've got just enough.
	We're conceiving about as often as we're dying, and we're producing enough of this and that.
	So that would be it.
	The technological inquisition would be on every corner.
	You think people would be out trying to string up Bill Gates if he lived through it all?
	Oh, absolutely.
	They'd be after him.
	Or, people could say, well, let's look at technology.
	Technology is nothing but applied science.
	The universe is, in a broad way of looking at it, it's technology.
	You know, our bodies are automation.
	Are any of us thinking about what we're going to do with what we ate for breakfast?
	No.
	It's automated.
	The question is, you know, the fault does not lie in the stars.
	It lies in ourselves.
	How can we apply technology in a way that empowers people?
	But we never want to believe that.
	So if there is a catastrophe, I would think technology would be the fall guy.
	Well, sure.
	Why not go after the scientists?
	They speak a different language.
	They look weird.
	Some of them even live in the woods, and even though they don't build bombs, well, maybe they could.
	You know, they're out there, you know, living.
	They even cover their foul little white-coated pockets with pen protectors and look different than the rest of us.
	Oh, yeah.
	Absolutely.
	They speak a different language that not many people understand, whether it's calculus or scientific jargon.
	All right.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	There could be exactly that.
	A counter-revolution, I guess it really would be, if you consider that technology is now a revolution, it would be a big counter-revolution.
	And, of course, Mao promoted that in China, and they literally hung people who wore glasses, figuring they were the readers.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Eric.
	This is Tom from Phoenix.
	Hi, Tom.
	Yeah, I would like to talk to you about two things tonight.
	I was wondering, is there any way you can get Michael Scallion to come on and talk to you over the air or anything like that?
	Of course.
	But we wait until there's specific reason.
	In other words, until something has changed.
	There's not much point in having him back to say essentially what he did before.
	If something new happens, you bet.
	Okay.
	And the second thing, I don't know if you remember, but there was a 15-year-old that called about a month ago, and I'd like to comment on what he was saying that That younger people like to listen to your show a lot.
	Everyone I've talked to, I'm 19, and everyone I've talked to loves your show.
	Well, thank you.
	That's good.
	I'd like to say how great of a show you have.
	Keep up the good work.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	It is true.
	We have a gigantic younger listening audience.
	I'm very well aware of it and happy about it.
	And I think, again, it has to do with the subject material, which we don't limit to politics.
	As a matter of fact, there's less and less reason, at least, to talk about politics.
	Unless you can get yourself wrapped up in the Dole-Clinton race.
	Let's see, what are the latest polls?
	They're showing Dole some... how far behind?
	Way behind.
	It was like...
	Well, I don't want to quote it and be wrong.
	There was one interesting political kind of thing over the weekend.
	Elizabeth Drew, author of a new book called Showdown!
	The Struggle Between the Gingrich Congress and the Clinton White House, says the Republican Congress, despite the fact that it did not get all of its Contract with America provisions through and Gingrich have won because the very philosophy of government has been changed permanently.
	In other words, it will be a very long time before any president dares submit another unbalanced budget.
	And that's thanks to Newt Gingrich and company.
	And you will recall That our guy, our Prez, submitted first an unbalanced budget.
	In fact, it was going to be unbalanced far as the eye could see, then ten years, then seven years.
	Who do you think did that?
	It was indeed Newt Gingrich, wasn't it?
	Newt Gingrich now is very upset with Clinton, so much so that it was reported that Newt Gingrich no longer wants to be in his actual Physical presence.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Whoa, radio, radio.
	Radio, radio.
	The magic words.
	First time call.
	Where from?
	Chet in Boulder, Colorado.
	Yes, sir.
	People's Republic of Boulder.
	Uh-huh.
	And I wasn't sure to call from west of the Rockies or east of the Rockies since the west side of town goes uphill to the Continental Divide.
	And the east side of town goes flat all the way to the Appalachians.
	We know that.
	We have included Colorado as west of the Rockies just for general principles.
	It's not exactly the Rockies as a break-off point anymore.
	People will have to use whichever number works.
	Sounds good to me.
	Okay.
	I first would like to compliment you on your show.
	I discovered your show when I went to work off and on at KHOW in Denver.
	Oh yes!
	For one of our hosts and have become a devotee Which keeps me awake all night, every night.
	I think you're doing a magnificent job of combining technology that you've been speaking about tonight with the family feeling of the global village.
	When you talk about your cats and your bent thumb and your scratches, we feel like we're in your home.
	And yet we have this incredible technology that's taking us all around the world.
	It is amazing, isn't it?
	I think this is the future.
	I feel perfectly comfortable with it, and I think you're breaking all the rules just perfectly.
	Thank you.
	The second thing is, I am getting my first cat in five years tomorrow since my divorce, which is going to keep me company, because I used to work at a zoo and worked with snow leopards and tigers and elephants, and that was a job I thought you would have enjoyed.
	Now, one thing about your cat, Yes.
	I won't max out your credit cards.
	That's right.
	I did.
	It's a whole long other story.
	The real reason I called was the Unabomber.
	Yes, sir.
	Are you familiar with the Earth First people?
	Indeed, there is a loose connection.
	The Unabomber is said to have gone to their meetings, or at least one.
	We have here in the People's Republic of Boulder, you know, we're very ecologically concerned, and I myself am a leftist liberal, although Is it Charles in California?
	Yes.
	Makes me look like Attila the Hun.
	So you don't want to associate yourself with his form of liberalism?
	Not quite that far out the deep end.
	However, in Boulder we are.
	You know, there are a lot of people concerned with animal rights and ecology, etc.
	But the Earth First people, I have seen a book that they put out that showed, with diagrams, how to make a landmine with a shotgun shell.
	For dirt bikes, motorcycles.
	Great.
	How to spike a tree.
	You bury a shotgun shell in the tree.
	Well, let's not.
	Okay, I won't.
	It's pretty obvious.
	But let's not.
	Let it be obvious.
	It's designed to maim and cripple.
	Well, I'm sure it would.
	For the earth-first people to distance themselves From the Unabomber, the way they have, they must think he must be even farther off the deep end than they are, because they're a real radical bunch of, well, loonies, to me.
	And also, do you realize that Timothy McVeigh's trial starts here today, in Denver?
	Oh, is that today?
	That's 15 miles down the road, yes sir.
	That should be something.
	In just a few hours, they've got all the barricades up.
	The TV people have arrived, the hotels are full, it's turning into a show.
	Clearly the Unabomber is the left's version of McVeigh on the right.
	Exactly.
	It's interesting we have them both going on at the same time.
	This is publicity that we would just as soon not get.
	We like the Rockies, we like the Broncos.
	But the McVeigh trial, we really didn't.
	Well look, if you think you've got a bad look at Montana.
	I love the things you read earlier, the road signs.
	That's great.
	Poor Montana.
	I would kill to scam one of your books for our radio station to pass around.
	Oh, I imagine such a thing.
	If you know what radio pays, you know I have no credit cards.
	as a lowly producer, I would have to pay cash somehow.
	Well, of course you can do that. I could see what I could do for you
	with my publisher. That's all I could suggest.
	There is a coterie of us at the station who are spreading the word, the Arkbell word, spreading the gospel to all our daytime hosts, saying, listen to this guy.
	Listen to this guy.
	This is a whole different kind of talk radio, which it is.
	It is that.
	And I'll see what I can do for you.
	Thank you very, very much for the call.
	And I will see what I can do for you.
	My book.
	You know, I've really got to organize myself.
	My book, my book, my book.
	You ought to see the pile.
	I've got about 2,000 pieces of paper in front of me.
	You can actually buy my book on the internet now.
	Yes.
	I'm calling in regards to last Friday's show.
	you can take a jump from my web page to my book page or My book part of my web page, or I don't exactly know how it
	works But you can go up there and actually buy the book on the
	web page in that wild that really is pretty cool First time call our line. You're on the air hi
	Yes, I I'm calling regards of Friday's best Friday show yes
	Turn your radio off, sir.
	That's number one.
	Otherwise, you will sound very confused.
	Sorry about that.
	First, I wanted to say, my wife and I, we are new listeners to your show.
	We're devoted listeners now.
	Well, we're glad to have you.
	On Friday's show, you were talking about remote control.
	Remote viewing.
	Yeah.
	And then the possibility of remote viewing escalating into remote control, being able to control somebody else's thinking or decision process.
	Yeah.
	Have you ever viewed or read Robert A. Monroe's book, Journeys Out of the Body?
	I've done better than that.
	I've interviewed Robert Monroe.
	Yes, in his book, Journeys Out of the Body.
	As you know, he's passed on.
	Oh, he did?
	No, you didn't know.
	I'm sorry.
	You didn't know.
	Yes, he's passed on.
	In his book, he described pinching somebody during an astral projection and leaving a mark.
	Wouldn't that be considered some kind of a remote control?
	Um...
	No, it would... it might be considered some proof of astral projection.
	Hmm.
	Yeah.
	Not remote control.
	Remote control means my sitting here and affecting you to make a certain decision or take a certain action mentally.
	Mind control.
	Yeah.
	What you're talking about is proof of being able to travel out of the body and then return and having a physical occurrence or some physical proof that something happened to you while you were out there.
	Okay, yeah.
	By the way, where are you?
	Uh, I'm calling from Lincoln, Nebraska.
	Alright.
	I am going to make you go to the kitchen in about ten minutes.
	Okay.
	Alright?
	Uh, so, think pretzels there in Lincoln, Nebraska.
	You want pretzels.
	You want a glass of milk.
	You want pretzels.
	And you want them now!
	And if you can't find pretzels, then you want potato chips with a glass of milk.
	I'm telling you, you want it.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hey.
	Hey.
	I got through.
	Yes, it seems so.
	Is this our bell?
	It is.
	Where are you?
	I am calling from Burton, Michigan.
	All right.
	I'm kind of off the subject of what's going on today, but... Look, these are open lines.
	Talk about anything you want.
	I'm a fairly new listener.
	I just started listening to you the past couple of weeks and I really enjoy your show.
	I listen to it every day I go to work.
	Thank you.
	I was curious because I heard you mention HAARP a couple of times.
	What is HAARP?
	It is a special government project Underway in Alaska to actually heat the ionosphere with two stated goals.
	To improve communications, ha ha ha, and to map underground bunkers and tunnels.
	That's HAARP.
	Okay, I was kind of curious about that.
	What does that have to do with... I've heard people make references on your show... Listen, do you want to hold on during the break?
	Sure, if I can.
	Alright, you can.
	Stay right there.
	I'm going to be right back.
	I'm going to be right back.
	Some velvet morning when I'm straight I'm gonna open up your gate
	And maybe tell you about Phaedra And how she gave me life
	And how she made it in Some velvet morning when I'm straight
	Flowers growing on a hill Dragonflies and daffodils
	Learn from our mistakes Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired April 8th, 1996.
	Hey Art, remember the other night you asked something like, what would you do if a spaceship landed?
	And someone came out and said, take us to your leader.
	How would we respond?
	In other words, who would they be taken to?
	Well, for me, I'd say it's your lucky day, guys.
	I was just out for a walk.
	And what can I help you with?
	I am a leader.
	However, I've had a little trouble keeping things together here on Earth.
	Could you help me out?
	Jerry in Hawaii.
	Jerry, it's people like you that are going to do us in.
	You're back on the air again.
	Hello.
	Hey, what I was going to ask was, like I said, I listen to you when I go to work.
	Right.
	And I'm in and out of my car.
	you know periodically and I've only caught parts of your conversations with people talking about
	the photographs of the moon yes and I was wondering what harp had to do with that because
	I've heard references made to nothing has nothing to do with nothing to do with it no sir okay and
	the photographs yes um I don't have a computer and I was wondering how I can probably get copies
	of those photographs where I might be able to look for them or find them or well they can be obtained
	from NASA but you need the particular frames uh to request uh where
	We publish them in the newsletter, so you can get them there.
	Other than that, I don't have much to suggest to you.
	They are up on my webpage, but you don't have a computer.
	That's about all I can do.
	I just got my curiosity up when you were speaking about this, and I keep looking up at the moon and kind of wondering, you know, what's up there.
	Well, good.
	Keep wondering.
	And somehow or another, put your hands on the photographs.
	I'm going to try to do that, because I've seen things in the sky once before, quite a few years ago.
	It just kind of got my curiosity up, and then one day I just turned on the radio station.
	There we were.
	And there you were.
	You were talking about these photographs of the moon.
	Well, I wish there was more I could do to help you, sir.
	I appreciate your call, but that's about all we can do.
	I don't know how else to get them out there.
	They're up on the web page, so if you have a friend with a computer, I suggest you get to that friend.
	My web address, and the web, by the way, is up.
	Somebody sent me a fax and said the web was down.
	That's not down.
	And my web address is www.artbell.com.
	That's www.artbell.com.
	Go up there and take a look.
	Dear Art, for all their objections about technology and big government, Don't the Unabomber and the Freemans sort of make the case for technology and big government?
	Without them, we would not be able to find and convict nuts like these.
	Lynn, in North Hollywood, listening to KABC.
	Art, if North Korea invades South Korea, the South is going to be defeated.
	Why?
	Because Bill Clinton does not trust his battlefield commanders.
	North Korean and Chinese battle tactics have always been to secretly amass overwhelming forces near the borders of their enemies, and then strike without warning, usually on a Korean or Chinese holiday.
	Since the 1950s, the North Koreans have built thousands of miles of underground tunnels near the DMZ.
	They're stocked with tanks, artillery, and troops.
	These underground bases are totally equipped with electricity, kitchens, barracks, and all the amenities of home.
	There may be as many as a million North Korean soldiers located in these underground bunkers and tunnels at any one time.
	All of that is true.
	Watch Korea carefully.
	Either this is a bluff, and even if it is a bluff, if North Korea sends more armed soldiers into the DMZ, it is my feeling That hostilities are going to resume because South Korea is saying, we will shoot them.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Joe in Minneapolis.
	Hi, Joe.
	And I was wondering if you believe in evolution and the progress of technology?
	Do I believe in evolution and the progress?
	Well, technology is obviously progressing.
	No question about that.
	And if you believe in evolution, what if there's posited aliens and aliens, but time travelers?
	Could be.
	I don't rule that out.
	Do I believe in evolution?
	Yes, I do.
	Do I believe the hand of God may be the creative force behind evolution?
	Yes, I do.
	So do I have a great internal conflict, as so many people do, between creation and evolution?
	No, I don't.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello there.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Bill Pham?
	I beg your pardon?
	Mr. Bell?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	I'm calling from Portland, Oregon.
	Yes, sir.
	Your international line didn't work, so I fly all the way from Japan.
	Well, you can call when you get back in Japan.
	I have a question.
	Yes.
	The other night, you mentioned you were in Okinawa.
	Yes.
	You got an interview by Japanese Broadcasting.
	I worked for Ryukyu Hosou.
	Ryukyu Hosou, which I had a Japanese boss, but it was a Japanese company broadcasting in English, KSBK, way back when.
	I see.
	And you were working for the U.S.
	Air Force in Okinawa too, right?
	Yes, I was in the Air Force on Okinawa.
	Then when I got out of the Air Force, I liked Okinawa so much that I got an airplane and went back.
	Okay, one day you sat on the air.
	You got interviewed by a reporter about the existence of an ethnic warhead in Okinawa Bay.
	You try to decline, but you saw the B-52 descending over a reporter's shoulder?
	Yes, indeed.
	Almost every night on Okinawan television, they would have a military spokesman who would completely deny the fact That there were B-52s on Okinawa and they would actually be interviewing the base PR guy who of course was required to deny this.
	And the camera would pan up and here comes this screeching B-52 rattling a rattling the camera and taking off above this guy's head
	it made for quite a sight on oklahoma television and it made the pure guy look of course ridiculous
	with regard to nuclear stockpiles you can bet they're on okinawa you can bet
	they are there you can bet a lot of things that you think might not be
	in fact west of the rockies you're on the air hello
	hello d in the red desert
	and i wanted to talk about the unabomber manifesto Yes.
	Well, there are a lot of people out here that cannot afford such things as computers.
	And even some of them, if they had them, don't know how to use them.
	Right.
	Particularly because they've never had the opportunity.
	And I can see those people Uh, feeling that technology is a threat.
	And then there's the other side of the coin, too.
	Even people who use technology and, um... Have some reservations.
	I'm one of them.
	Well, not only that, but they have reservations because, number one, technology can be so easily abused.
	And it is, um, some of the time.
	But it's so...
	It sometimes seems so vast.
	It is.
	You'll find... It is.
	I mean, look, take, you know, this incredible technology that we have developed called Vidion, you know, the two-way phone?
	Uh-huh.
	Well, on the one side, what a wonderful way for moms to keep in touch with their sons or daughters with a video telephone, right?
	From anywhere in the world to anywhere in the world over a regular phone line.
	That's the plus side.
	But a negative side might be, consider what it would do for the 900 sex lines.
	Yeah.
	So, we take a step forward technologically and possibly at times a step in reverse socially.
	It's true.
	Well, the thing like, you know, my husband and I, we live out here in the desert because we like to live out here in the desert.
	Same reason I'm here.
	And, you know, You know, we've visited cities since we've been out here and you feel like you're just piled on top of.
	And I can understand someone withdrawing from society, like with myself at times.
	I have to sit back and really think about, well, when the government does something or people of the society do something, I have to sit back and think.
	Well, how does this affect me?
	How do I feel about it?
	Sure.
	Because there are times when I don't want to have anything to do with people.
	And I don't want to have anything to do with the government.
	And I don't want the government coming in here and saying, you do this, and you do that, and you live like this, and you go here, and you go there, and you don't go here.
	I don't, to me, I don't feel free.
	So maybe you're the free woman of the desert.
	I think a lot of people at times feel that way.
	We work so hard to build a life.
	We go to school, we go to college, and other people go to the military.
	We do things in life that we have to do to advance ourselves for the future, but sometimes when we get there, it's like Why did we come here?
	Why did we come this far?
	All right.
	No, you're absolutely right.
	And what I said, I sort of stand by.
	And that is, that is that technology makes it possible for us to not interact or to have the choice to not interact with people one-to-one, face-to-face.
	There was a time in this country where if you wanted the latest rumor You had to go to the barbershop.
	At the very least, you had to hang over your fence and talk to your next-door neighbor.
	Now, the latest news, the latest rumors, the latest everything can come to you at the speed of light, right into your own home, in one of zillions of ways.
	Interactive cable, computers, you name it and the information is just like that, if you want it.
	And it enables you to do everything you want without moving, without interacting socially.
	So think about that a little bit.
	It's true.
	First-time caller line, you're on the air.
	Oh my goodness.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Greets, 99th.
	How are you doing?
	Very well, thank you.
	I've got a couple of things to put to you tonight.
	You're a first-time caller, sir?
	No, I'm not.
	Well, then you're not allowed to use this line, I'm afraid.
	Now, wait, wait, wait.
	Call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
	Now, now, you just hit a bunch of touchstones and I can't let you do that.
	Well, now he hung up.
	You can't hit touchstones when you're on the air.
	Not allowed.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, this is the Italian Stallion.
	Long time no hear from you.
	Well, a long time no hear from you, actually.
	Alrighty, I was going to tell you, you know, this technology thing and all that.
	I think what's really ruining, I think that the acceleration where, you know, the technology seems like it's like the quakening.
	It's accelerating faster and faster.
	Yes.
	And the amount of technology being presented to us, eventually I don't think we'll be able to accept.
	Well, at some point there may be Trouble in River City.
	And the question is, if there is some sort of revolution, anti-technological revolution or catastrophe that occurs, what do you think will come out on the other end?
	I really think on the other end... In other words, it's not going to be the end.
	There will be survivors of whatever occurs.
	And so what kind of system, what kind of government, what kind of structure, social or economic, Will we have on the other side?
	I believe, when that happens, I believe that's going to be the thousand euro piece that Nostradamus talked about.
	Because computers as it is, what scares me about computers, my aim at computers is that the way we can, there's theft and our ICBMs and billions of dollars are being stolen through computers.
	And computers, I think, I hate computers.
	I hate people that use them.
	Really?
	I really believe that computers are disasters.
	Why?
	Because of the way they're all tied into the whole world, and how people get on the internet, and now you're seeing kids get into this pornography.
	Do you think the internet is evil?
	Yes, I do.
	I believe it's evil in its own way.
	But other than that, you have a good one, Art, and it's good talking to you.
	All right, take care.
	There.
	Who does that sound like?
	Computers are evil.
	The Internet is evil.
	Who's to say?
	Maybe, huh?
	Have you thought about it very much?
	Have you read that manifesto of the Unabomber, or even parts of it?
	It is, without a doubt, thought-provoking.
	I don't think you can read it without sitting down to do some serious questioning, and that's not to make a hero out of somebody you've killed.
	It's just to consider academically the statements made.
	And a lot of people, even over the weekend, very thoughtful people, George Will and others, suggested Jerry Spence, Others who looked at this and talked about it suggested these are things that many Americans may agree with.
	this attack on technology.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey Art, how you doing?
	This is Derek in Fremont.
	Hi Derek.
	Let's change the subject just a little bit.
	Whatever you like.
	You know how we... You've been to the San Francisco Bay Area, right?
	Yes, of course.
	And you know how they refer to San Francisco as the city?
	Yes.
	Well, you know, we ought to start referring to Earth as the planet.
	Well, it is a planet.
	Well, I know, but I mean, instead of just, you know, the shuttles coming back to Earth, the shuttle's coming back to the planet.
	Oh, I see.
	Don't... doesn't that have a more, uh... fresh ring to it, let's say?
	Well...
	I know what they're referring to, whichever word they use.
	Well, you know, instead of these proper names, let's go to the more definitive or descriptive names.
	Well, the shuttle has decided to return to the third planet from the sun.
	How about that?
	Well, just a planet.
	I mean, what other planet are we referring to?
	Well, that's true.
	All right, thanks for taking my call.
	You take care.
	Take care.
	All right.
	I suppose we could put it that way.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Yeah, you were talking Friday with Sally, I think.
	Okay.
	And I was wondering, I believe we're spending too much money, and the way the system is in those other countries, you were saying about them being in cardboard shacks, this, that.
	Oh, I said if you want to see real poverty, Look outside the U.S., profound poverty in a way that we don't begin to understand it here.
	Yes.
	Well, what I was going to suggest, over there, when you go to court and they find you guilty and you get a death penalty like China and some of the other countries, they take you out in the back and they shoot you in the back of the head.
	That's what they do.
	And that is a death penalty.
	That's correct.
	In this country here, you go get three meals a day, The best medical insurance you can get, the best library, everything.
	So those people with little freedom they got, they know what freedom is.
	And they don't want to lose it by going to their prison.
	Well isn't there a song, you don't know what you got until it's gone?
	Right.
	So like I suggest, we got it too good over here, that's why people don't mind going to prison.
	Well I think it's you don't know what you got when you got it.
	If you've never had Uh, an example of what it's really like to be without.
	And I don't think a guy should get, like, $30,000 a game for sitting when he doesn't stand up for the National Anthem.
	And nobody, I think, should make more than the President makes.
	Really?
	Right.
	Well, what if they do more than the President does?
	And in today's world, that's not too hard to imagine.
	So we've got to break And this is a good time to do it.
	There's a lot of people out there that do more than Mr. Clinton does.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 8, 1996.
	Coast to Coast AM, April 8, 1996.
	Down with flowers on the wall, that don't bother me at all.
	Playing solitaire till dawn, with a deck of 51.
	Smoking cigarettes and watching Captain Jangaroo.
	Now don't tell me, I've nothing to do.
	Last night I dressed in tail, pretended I was on the ground.
	As long as I can dream apart this life is swinging down This is the story of a young man who was born in a village
	in the middle of nowhere He was a boy who was born in a village in the middle of
	nowhere He was a boy who was born in a village in the middle of
	nowhere Tonight's program originally aired April 8th, 1996.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi, Art Bell.
	Hello.
	This is Larry from Bremerton.
	I'm a first-time caller.
	Hi, Larry.
	What's on your mind?
	Well, first off, Gadfrey, I got an earful, so I'll try to cover basics as much as I can without you cutting me off here.
	But first, I'm skeptical about the aliens.
	Why?
	Well, one thing, it seems to me that they'd be a small flock.
	Otherwise, everybody in the world would be seeing quite a few of them.
	Well, if they were a flock, they'd be birds.
	Yeah.
	And also, they wouldn't be the same size as us, right?
	Well, that's right.
	You ought to see some of the birds we've got out here.
	They could be aliens.
	Right.
	Okay, my point is there that why don't we have a spacecraft as big as the Earth hovering every once in a while, or maybe as small as an atom flying through our ears telling us what to do?
	You mean you don't?
	All right, thank you very much for the call.
	Why don't we have a spacecraft as large as the Earth, I think he said, or one as small as something that would fly in your ear and tell you what to do?
	Well, I don't know about the first, but maybe we already do have the second.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Art Bell?
	That's me.
	Oh, I'm getting a delay.
	Don't worry about it.
	Turn your radio off.
	That will help you immensely.
	Okay.
	That's good.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Kingdom City, Missouri.
	Kingdom City, Missouri?
	Yes.
	I was going to just guess.
	The next call was going to come from Kingdom City.
	Oh, really?
	No, I'm kidding.
	Welcome to the show.
	What's up?
	Are we live?
	I am.
	Now, I don't know about your condition.
	No, I mean, what's your time out there?
	Not the same as your time there.
	It's, let's see, 3.09 and 35 seconds.
	Okay, and it's Tuesday morning.
	The 9th?
	No, it's Thursday here.
	Thursday.
	Thursday here in Nevada.
	Are you pulling my leg?
	Yes.
	Okay, good.
	I have some questions about, first of all, a caller here on my radio just earlier asked about HAARP.
	Yes.
	Is that an acronym?
	Yes, it is.
	And can you tell me what it stands for?
	Um...
	High altitude...
	Oral...
	Su-uh...
	Oral.
	It's to heat.
	No, I can't recall exactly what it is.
	And I should be able to.
	It's to heat the ionosphere.
	High altitude radian.
	High altitude.
	Anyway.
	Project.
	Oral research project.
	That might be it.
	Research.
	High altitude research project.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And it's to heat the ionosphere.
	Yes.
	And it's the federal government project?
	Well, sure.
	Yes, it is.
	Uh-huh.
	And why do they want to heat the ionosphere?
	Want to just blow a hole in it, see what'll happen.
	Uh, isn't that kind of speculative and dangerous?
	Yes, it is.
	Uh-huh.
	We don't really know what'll happen.
	Uh, they're gonna just do this on a small scale?
	Have they done it in any kind of a simulated way?
	Um, situation?
	They've done it on a very small scale.
	Uh, the scale is going to get much larger.
	And, uh, they're going to eventually be, uh, running, uh, power levels approaching a hundred billion watts.
	And that's when they think that things like the weather will be affected, human beings may be affected.
	That sort of thing.
	That's kind of... Strange, huh?
	Uh, yeah, and what would be the motive?
	Well, they have stated motives of improving modes of communication, possibly military, or mapping underground tunnels and bunkers.
	How could they map, like, infrared or some kind of... Well, by a very low frequency radiation returned to Earth.
	But remember to get under the Earth, It's got to first go through you.
	Uh-huh.
	Okay?
	Yeah, oh yeah, right, yeah.
	Alright, thank you very much for the call.
	I hope that helps.
	Hey, by the way, do you remember we talked about somebody at the end of the show on last, this last week, called about a two-headed girl.
	There is a two-headed girl.
	She is six, they are six years old.
	They are co-joined twins.
	Siamese twins, they don't like that expression.
	They are co-joined.
	And I've got a picture of them here.
	There are indeed two heads.
	Two heads!
	Thinking, talking, functional, active, healthy, six-year-olds.
	They share one rib cage, three lungs, two hearts, one liver, Two gallbladders, two stomachs, one large intestine, one small intestine, two left kidneys, one right kidney, one pelvis, one pair of ovaries, one uterus, one vagina.
	God, that's incredible!
	And they are normal, otherwise healthy, six-year-olds.
	These are... God, that's incredible!
	Absolutely incredible!
	And so, from the neck up and some of the body, they share, looks like two legs, two arms.
	So they walk normally.
	The arms function normally.
	Each twin apparently able to manipulate one arm, according to the picture I've got here.
	Quite amazing.
	Absolutely amazing.
	God, I would love to interview them.
	But I would imagine their parents would not go for such a thing, although they have allowed magazines to come in now and do stories on these girls.
	Two-headed girl.
	That's really amazing.
	Really, really amazing.
	and true.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Good morning.
	I thought this Unabomber manifesto... Yes.
	You know, I think some of your fathers in college had it right.
	Technology is value neutral.
	I mean, until we touch it, it's like a gun.
	It's just sitting there.
	You know, that's what the gun control is like.
	Well, it may be intrinsically value negative as well.
	Well, yeah, but you know, that's the ambiguity that we have to accept with life.
	That not everything isn't just good or bad.
	It's a little bit of both.
	Almost all the time.
	You know, we like to put things in little categories, but sometimes it doesn't work that way.
	Well, I well understand the pluses of technology.
	I utilize them here, as you know.
	But I also am mindful of the negative side.
	I really am mindful of it, and I think it might be successfully argued that for every step we take forward, technologically, we take a bit of a step backwards socially.
	I think there's a good argument there, because even though we've got more information, we now have the ability never to leave home to get it.
	I'm a classic example of that.
	And we have less of a reason to socialize or interact with each other than ever before.
	And every time we take another step forward, Uh, we slip back a little socially.
	Yeah, but what you're insinuating is that the technology is what has control, and that's not true.
	You choose to stay home.
	You could get in your car and go to your neighbor's house anytime you want.
	I know, but it makes that choice possible where it did not before.
	Yes, but the control is still yours.
	Absolutely.
	It's not technology.
	Absolutely.
	You know, and I think that's one of the main things that I hear when I hear little snippets out of his manifesto.
	He definitely sounds like somebody who feels out of control.
	But there was a day when you could go down to your local barbershop, or for you, beauty parlor, whatever, and you could get the latest news, rumors, and dirt.
	Today, you can sit home and do that.
	If you want to.
	Just an example.
	If you want to.
	Right.
	Well, do people generally take the easy path or the hard path?
	Which path is more likely?
	Well, the easy one.
	I rest my case.
	I rest my case.
	You're so smug.
	Thank you.
	That's Meathead.
	Yeah, Meathead.
	That's right.
	Meat.
	They're meat!
	Nothing but meat!
	Some of you who join the show later won't know what she was speaking about.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	Hello.
	This is John and Rosita.
	Hi, John.
	And I wonder if you got my letter?
	I get a lot of letters.
	What was it about?
	Well, it's just a little diagram.
	You'll probably recognize it when you see it.
	Anyways, I want to talk about the Billings Report.
	The Billings Report?
	I think that was the name of it.
	About the UFO guidelines from the late 50s or something.
	You certainly got me confused.
	I don't know what you're talking about.
	No, the statement says they should keep it under wraps.
	What was the name of that?
	Oh!
	You mean that civilization would be destroyed by knowledge of a superior alien race?
	Yeah, well, I just want to say, first of all, things are almost 40 years old.
	Things have changed a little bit.
	Not only would a flying saucer have to land, our CNN would have to cover it in full, and You know, there'd have to be a lot of coverage for people to believe it as well.
	Oh, that's probably true.
	And even then, look, sir, CNN, while it wasn't around then, all the networks covered man's going to the moon.
	You remember that?
	Well, I didn't show it all.
	And a lot of people don't, for a second, believe it.
	Anyways, I appreciate that.
	I just wanted to say hi, and thanks again.
	All right, thank you.
	A lot of people don't believe we ever went to the moon.
	So there you are.
	It's really neat seeing Bruce of the IRC Chat Channel, who apparently got himself a two-way videon.
	This hour, for the remainder of this hour, I'm going to leave the two-way video system up.
	Bruce looks like a pretty hefty dude, actually.
	And I'll tell you how good it is, Bruce.
	I can see that you're wearing a t-shirt from the book signing.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Good morning, sir.
	Good morning to you.
	Rittmeister Gerhardt, conservative in California.
	I think that one of the most crucial and one of the most under-reported things that happened this past week has been the offing of Ron Brown.
	I really do believe that since this man was in some kind of deep doo-doo to the point of which a special prosecutor had been appointed to look into his misdeeds, He was a bona fide embarrassment to the Clintonistas.
	And another very mysterious fact, which has also been underreported, is that his law partner... So, what are you leading to?
	That you think that the Clintons had him knocked off?
	Is that it?
	Yes.
	And his law partner was murdered in South Africa on the same day.
	Another very underreported thing.
	And now this guy who has The first story was that he was the air traffic controller, and the second story was that he was in charge of the maintenance of the radio navigation equipment.
	He has committed suicide.
	And at first we heard that there were black box found, and then we found out, no, there was no black box found.
	I never heard that there was any black box found.
	From the very get-go, they said this version of the A 737 military version does not carry a black box.
	Well, see, that's nonsense, because every 737 that leaves the Boeing factory, no matter where it's destined for, military, civil, whatever, has black boxes put in it before it goes out the door.
	Well, maybe in some military models they took it out.
	Well, this is beginning to stink.
	I mean, this is beginning to smell like Vince Foster, who the Clintonistas also had knocked off.
	Well, do you have any proof?
	Well, let's just say that when somebody shoots himself in the mouth with a pistol, the gun not only does not remain in the hand... No, now we're back talking about Vince Foster.
	I'm talking about... Paul Ron Brown?
	Well, the suicide of the guy in Yugoslavia... That's not proof.
	No, no.
	I asked for proof.
	I mean, you make an allegation of murder, particularly against the President, which is what you're doing.
	That's right.
	That's what I'm doing, and I'm proud to be doing it on your show.
	Well, you can do it, but it doesn't mean anything if you don't have any proof.
	Well, I think we need to see proof that this is all an accident.
	That's what I think we need to see proof of.
	People are not going to prove that it was just an accident.
	The weather was bad.
	The turn was wrong.
	I think the burden of proof is on those making an allegation of a crime.
	Namely, you.
	Well, that's kind of what Louis Farrakhan says when he's asked about the burden of proof over the murder of Malcolm X.
	Well, in that case, he's right.
	If you make an allegation of murder against Farrakhan or anybody else, the burden of proof is on the people making the allegation.
	For example, when the state Um, when the state makes an allegation, they are required, uh, through, uh, science, through investigative techniques, to go into court, and with a prosecutor, uh, convince a jury that somebody is guilty.
	And so, sir, the burden of truth, uh, truth, yeah, truth, and proof, remains, um, squarely on your shoulders, and you offered up zip.
	A west of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Uh, hello?
	Hello!
	Hey, is this our bill?
	Yes, it is!
	Hey, how you doing?
	My name's Chris, I'm calling from Macon, Arizona.
	Yes, sir!
	Um, I saw your show yesterday, uh, Sunday, I guess.
	Um, it was a re-tape, you were talking about, uh, well, you kept reminding yourself to, uh, to, uh, record some interview.
	Yes.
	On television, about this guy who said, uh, doing some genetic research.
	Remember talking about that?
	Um, genetic research.
	Oh, um, yes, I do.
	About Paranoid.
	The one on Larry King, yes.
	Yeah, that one.
	Do you think maybe Unabomber was talking about that, about ripping the personalities out and becoming a cognitive system?
	Well, he could have been.
	That's just something that kind of caught my mind when you were reading parts of that this morning.
	Mm-hmm.
	Just thought I'd bring that to your attention.
	I got two questions for you, by the way.
	Sure, fire away.
	What's your email address?
	It's simple.
	It's artbell at aol.com.
	Okay, and second, earlier today somebody was touching tones on the, or sending touch tones.
	Yep.
	And you said that's against the rules?
	Yep.
	Is that just irritating, or is there a reason why it's not?
	Well, there are a number of reasons.
	Yes, it is very irritating, number one.
	Number two, there are radio stations who run automation gear by touch tones, and so we don't want to be firing that off.
	Oh, that makes sense.
	So I just, you know, I've got a button here, I just erase it.
	Oh, okay.
	Along with the person.
	That makes sense.
	Anyways, I don't want to take up too much time, because, well, I'm working, so...
	I see.
	Well, thank you very much for the call and take care.
	Appreciate it.
	Always glad to let people know what the real story is.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Art, this is Fred calling from the mighty KOMO in Seattle.
	Hi, Fred.
	And about that caller who said that Ron Brown was murdered by the president.
	That's preposterous.
	Clinton had A clear alibi when that happened.
	Apparently, shortly before the plane went down, he went to McDonald's and was seen shipping golf balls outside the White House shortly thereafter.
	I see.
	So, couldn't have been the President.
	Obviously, though, he meant had it ordered, had it done.
	You know, I don't like this President, but I'm really tiring of this kind of thing.
	That was ridiculous.
	I know.
	And regarding aliens, perhaps already being here on this planet?
	Yes.
	Ross Perot?
	Now, can I say something here?
	Can I get a word in, Larry?
	That's pretty good.
	I think he's an alien.
	Anyway, hey, I love your show.
	Thank you.
	Just bought the book, The Art of Talk.
	Read it, liked it, and keep up the good work.
	Thank you, my friend.
	Take care.
	Well, it was a good, bluntly honest book.
	The repercussions for me for writing that book are going to continue forever.
	I'll tell you right now.
	So many people are so unhappy with me.
	But let me give you a piece of advice.
	They say that everybody's got one good book in them.
	Isn't that what they say?
	The old expression?
	Well, that was my one good book.
	But if you ever get a chance to write yours, do yourself a favor.
	And I went into a great quandary about my book.
	How should I write it?
	Should I tell the truth, or should I sort of gloss over some things?
	Let's put it that way.
	And I decided I was going to tell the truth.
	Nothing but the truth.
	And some people totally, utterly freaked out.
	I'm not an angel.
	I wrote the truth.
	And as a matter of fact, one lady, I think I told you this last week, one lady sent my book back to me.
	And she said, this would never stay on a Christian's coffee table.
	Well, it's the only one that anybody ever sent back.
	And then somebody said, why don't you donate it to the local public library?
	And I think that's exactly what I'm going to do.
	I'm going to donate it to the Pahrump Library.
	As a matter of fact, maybe we'll get that done in the next couple of days.
	Get it over there to the library.
	But she did send it back.
	Now look, if you want a copy of my book, you can get it.
	And or my audio book.
	I did the voice for my own audio book.
	It was like I had to relive the whole thing.
	The number to call to order the book, you can get it on the internet, actually order it there, or call 1-800-864-7991.
	It is called The Art of Talk and you really will enjoy it.
	It is called The Art of Talk, and you really will enjoy it.
	1-800-864-7991.
	you Just prepare yourself for the absolute truth.
	That's all.
	Be shocked not.
	It's the bottom of the hour.
	We're going to break here.
	We'll be right back with more.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 8th, 1996.
	Coast to Coast is a production of NASA NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, California Institute of
	Technology NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, California Institute of
	Technology Music
	Music Music
	Music Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 8th, 1996.
	Good morning everybody, I'm Art Bell.
	And by the way, if you can hear us way out there somewhere, we do have an international number up and running.
	And available for you, um, if I could find that number.
	What you do is you get hold of the AT&T operator, uh, in whatever country you happen to be in.
	And, why can't I ever find what I want to find?
	I keep losing things.
	Well, anyway, I'll dig it out.
	We do have an international line, I just don't happen to have the number handy.
	Because I've got so much stuff up here!
	Ah, here it is.
	You get hold of the AT&T USA Direct Access Number for your country, and then call us.
	Dial that, and then call 800-893-0903.
	That's 800-893-0903.
	And HAARP, the acronym HAARP, is High Frequency Active Oral Research Project.
	That's 800-893-0903. And HARP, the acronym HARP, is High Frequency Active Oral Research Project.
	Thank you. But you know, when you think about it, it is not a hyphenated...
	high frequency is not a hyphenated word.
	Therefore, it ought to be, actually, be H-F-A-A-R-P.
	Huh.
	H-F-A-A-R-P.
	But that sounds more like a senior citizen's organization.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	I had a couple comments about the...
	technology and how you've been talking people been thinking of it is evil
	now you're going to your little while ago didn't it's kind of frightening
	and people have to go straight ahead of i'm i've got to that i
	i think technology it was it does
	the thing and i think we're does have a problem is that it is not
	done equally i don't want to give up running water and or toilets and
	being able to cook at ease So many people in the world have messed up none of these
	things.
	We have such high technology and yet large portions of the world go without running water, toilets, electricity that would make life better and technology should be making life better instead of creating such anger.
	Well then why are things going so socially to hell in this country where we have just about everybody has running water and electricity and the basics And a lot more, frankly, and yet things are sliding downhill.
	How come?
	Well, I was looking at it more planetarian, you know, as a global thing.
	Well, yes, but if you look at a lot of places where there's crushing poverty, no running water, or almost none.
	I'm not talking about the violence.
	No electricity.
	Well, I am, because we're measuring technological advance with respect to social retreat.
	Well, to answer that question, then, I would think, is the fact that people don't get to know each other anymore.
	As an individual, even as a woman, I don't need... I can work and make my own money.
	I can create my own environment.
	I can pay my own rent.
	Any individual can do that.
	At one time in history, in society, people over and under needed each other very much.
	Now we've gotten where we don't get to know people, so whatever fears we have, we don't have them dissipated by people discussing them.
	And people are alone and afraid.
	And so the best way to make yourself safe is say, I'm safe in here and it's bad out there.
	That's my look at it.
	Fair enough.
	I thank you for the call.
	But I'm not sure how we soften the effects of technology and retain our social structure.
	I mean, that's really, really an interesting question.
	How do we do that?
	How do we soften the negative effects of technology, or even cause it to enhance our social interaction, rather than detract from it?
	That's a really good question.
	And wouldn't it be fun to ask the Unabomber that?
	What do you think he would say?
	Probably, Hey Art, has the package arrived yet?
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hey, great.
	Art, my hat's off to you.
	Well, you shouldn't be wearing a hat inside anyway, but thank you.
	Well, it's kind of cold up in Anchorage.
	Oh, you're in Anchorage?
	Yes, I am.
	Okay.
	In reference to HAARP, and I'm glad to hear you got the name dug through your paperwork.
	Well, you know, they really don't have it right anyway, when you think about it.
	That's true.
	It should be H-F-A-A-R-P.
	Granted, and anybody who has access to the computer and the internet and that, in the section of the paper in Anchorage Daily News, In a section called We Alaskans, just about that entire
	section is devoted to hearts.
	It gives the pros and the cons.
	It gives you both sides.
	It also gives reference to Nick Begich, the author of Angels Don't Play This.
	I heard him while he was on your show and he's very informed.
	He's the son of a U.S. Representative.
	I've got to believe that he's got a little more insight on what's going on than just
	say a normal guy like me who's trying to figure things out.
	His father was in politics.
	He's aware of some of the things that they may do.
	I'm kind of curious because he really takes a hard stand on some of the things that Harp has the possibility of doing.
	He points it out in his book and also in this article in Sunday's paper.
	Oh yes, well I am very aware of it, thank you, of the possibility of weather modification at higher power levels.
	The possibility of human effect.
	In other words, the human brain operates, we know, at certain very low frequencies, or is affected, it might be more accurate to say, by certain very low frequencies.
	And the amount of radiation coming back to Earth at the higher power levels could actually affect human thought.
	Or maybe it already is.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Hi.
	Turn your radio off.
	I got it there.
	Good.
	I was just sitting here.
	Oh, this is Dave in Phoenix.
	Yes, Dave.
	I was sitting here watching the Bloomberg television, and they were reporting a UFO over the second largest oil refinery there.
	They said several witnesses saw a blue light.
	Where?
	In Saudi Arabia.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	I just thought you might want to hear that.
	They said it shined a blue opal light on it for several minutes and then disappeared in an unnatural way.
	Ooh.
	Well, that's a new one.
	Yeah.
	Part of the quickening, I think.
	You do?
	Yeah.
	Well, it's probably just one more thing for ufology.
	That's true.
	That's true.
	Wow, this is really neat to get a hold of you.
	Also, I have an idea of Since you're going worldwide for a new name for your show, why not just call it the Art of Talk?
	That's the name of my book.
	Yeah, but it also refers to your show because more than you being Art Bell, your show is a good representation of what talk radio should be.
	Thank you.
	I do believe that.
	Just open lines and whatever happens, happens.
	Yeah.
	Well, that's the name of my book, sir, so I appreciate that, but we're going to keep it Coast to Coast AM.
	It's been that for all these years.
	So we'll leave it alone.
	It became that.
	It used to be, long, long ago, it used to be called West Coast AM.
	And the moment we syndicated and went national, we renamed it.
	And that's going to be the only renaming.
	Art, a short comment concerning Korea.
	I have two friends that were in the army.
	One in the 70s, the other in the 80s.
	Assigned to the nuclear howitzer division in Germany and Korea.
	Have you ever wondered why a million man army is deterred by 15,000 Americans?
	There are only two main passes that cross the DMZ that the North Koreans would invade.
	My friends tell me that in the event, unlikely, of an all-out invasion, nuclear weapons are our first option.
	Three nuclear howitzer battalions are always on a highest state of readiness, about 19 miles from the DMZ.
	One kiloton cannon shells are stored at a military base south of Seoul.
	They'd require about an hour to fly them north to the howitzer battalions.
	There the nukes would wait 100 yards back in an all-terrain cargo vehicle.
	The battalion commander radios, I have an authorization.
	The nukes are driven up and loaded.
	The next hellish hours would consist of cannons firing nukes, blowing up about a square mile at a time as North Korean tanks pour into the DMZ.
	Don't think big.
	These are probably very small and relatively clean.
	P.S.
	The nuclear howitzer division in Germany was transferred to Saudi Arabia before the Persian Gulf War.
	Rich in San Francisco.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi Art, um, this is Rita, I'm calling in from Eastern Oregon.
	Hello Rita!
	Well, I just love your show, but I'm a little disappointed in ya.
	Well, I live with that.
	Okay, well, I understand how you feel about the freemen in Montana, and I understand that they have overstepped their boundaries.
	But I also think that the basis behind what they're doing is correct.
	I mean, you know, the foreclosures and the taxes and things in this country are out of control.
	And I really feel that... May I ask you a question?
	You're in a truck, right?
	I am in a log truck.
	You're what?
	I'm in a log truck.
	A what truck?
	A logging truck.
	A logging truck?
	I'll pull over.
	Do you, uh, do you own that logging truck?
	Yes, I do.
	You do?
	Do you make payments on it?
	Um, no, sir.
	I own this truck outright now.
	You own it outright?
	Yeah, I do.
	Do you have a house?
	Do you make payments on that?
	Yes, I do.
	And if you stop making payments on it, what do you think would happen?
	Well, I understand that.
	That's what I'm saying.
	Yeah, but you don't really, because what you're saying is that too many people are going broke, and so the people that are going broke should not have anything taken away from them, and they can use nefarious, illegal means to keep it from happening, or stand there with guns.
	Oh, no, sir.
	That's not what I'm saying.
	I realized fully that they have overstepped their boundaries.
	Well, then in what manner are you defending their actions?
	Well, I feel that the underlying principle, I think they've taken it a little, you know, they've taken it way too far.
	But I think, you know, the IRS is out of control.
	And our tax system is based on presumption.
	And these 1040 forms that you sign, you presume or you give the presumption to the government that you owe taxes.
	And after that, then that gives them the right to come in and do whatever they want to to you.
	Do you pay your taxes?
	Excuse me?
	Do you pay yours?
	Well, I have until I found out what I found out and I'm not going to anymore, but I'm going to do it legally.
	I'm filing all the correct papers and claiming my sovereign citizenship and my non-resident alien status.
	Well, a lot of people who have done all of that are now filing appeals from jail.
	No, they're not.
	Oh, yes, they are.
	No, they're not.
	They certainly are.
	Not if they've done it correctly.
	Well, look, maybe you are an expert, but there are people, I won't mention their names, who are on the radio, do radio shows, and instruct people and have little programs about how not to pay taxes.
	They've been in jail.
	The experts.
	Well, I know that I've seen enough evidence of people that have done this Yeah.
	And all of our master files are supposedly, and I'm waiting to get mine back, but they are coded.
	And unless you were born in a United States territory, which would be Washington, D.C., Puerto Rico, or Guam, or the like, or you are a federal government employee, you do not earn the wages that the IRS code says you earn.
	You earn compensation for your labor, and it is not the same thing.
	They use words of art and that's not a pun against you, but they turn things around and they use them for their own meaning.
	Well, I'm a little disappointed in you.
	You're disappointed in me?
	Yeah.
	You know, our government is out of control.
	They have created a debt out of thin air.
	Our money is no longer backed in gold.
	That's ridiculous.
	Look, that's ridiculous.
	The debt is not out of thin air.
	The debt bought a lot of military things.
	It bought a lot of infrastructure.
	It bought a lot of Congress's social programs.
	It's not out of thin air.
	Yes it is.
	Our Federal Reserve is totally unnecessary.
	How come we don't just print the money and issue it ourselves?
	How come we sell thousand dollar bills to the Federal Reserve for two and a half cents and then create a bond All right.
	Well, thank you.
	I've heard this story a million times, and you are welcome to follow that trail if you wish.
	But before you get too wrapped up in watching the videos that I know you're watching and reading the books that I know you're reading, I suggest you check With a good, bona fide tax person.
	Not a government tax person.
	Not the IRS.
	Just a good, bona fide tax accountant.
	And tell them your story.
	and see what they say about your chances of getting away with it.
	West of the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning Art.
	This is Bob from Portland, Oregon.
	Hi Bob.
	I've listened to you for a couple of years now, and I've thoroughly enjoyed it.
	Thank you.
	Just a couple of comments.
	When I was in the military, I was in the Arctic in the early 50s, right after the Korean War, and we continually tracked all sorts of unknowns, and they used to laugh and call them hats, high-altitude carrots, in reference to that carrot out of the Howard Hawks movie, The Thing.
	Yes.
	And what always kind of amused me, you know, you never hear anything about all this, but they had hundreds of trackings.
	We were never allowed to put them in the logs.
	And everybody that worked up there, there was probably six, seven hundred of us on the teams, knew about it.
	And I'm just surprised, you know, the government is pretty... At that time, we were involved with the Army and the Air Force.
	There was just hard rules, you just didn't mention them.
	But when our mail people would bring in, all the mail would come in by helicopter.
	And they would see, these things would be so fast and so low that they would disturb the snow in different areas.
	And the guys would be flying in, and the mail would say, hey, we see you've been Visit again, there'd be all sorts of streaks and stuff out in the snow.
	Yeah, there's something going on out there.
	Well, I've always wondered.
	Later on, when I was a police officer in 1967 in Yanville County, Oregon, we had some type of craft.
	It wasn't just myself.
	There was about 30 or 40 people outside their cars.
	All the cops had clicked their radios, and everybody was out looking.
	It was right overhead, and the National Guard Air Force scrambled out of Portland.
	Well, there are things in our skies, I've seen one, that nobody can explain.
	Period.
	And that's the name of that tune.
	I mean, there's no argument about it.
	They are there.
	just so much of this that goes on and just a little bit of my life I've
	experienced you just have to know that something is going on. Well there are
	there are things in our skies I've seen one that nobody can explain period
	and that's the name of that tune I mean there's no argument about it they are
	there now what they are that's a different story. One of our reserve
	police officers is also a in the National Guard They're in the same unit that scrambled for the ones in 1967.
	I think some time ago one of them landed right there in Portland and is now what you know as your convention center.
	It looks like it, doesn't it?
	It really does.
	Two great big double spires.
	Yeah.
	Hey, I just wanted you to know I'm a former cop just working out here at night and I really enjoy your show.
	You're a lot of company.
	Thank you.
	Hey, take care.
	Take care.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hey, Art Kenny at Metairie.
	How you doing?
	Metairie, Louisiana.
	Yes, sir.
	You got it.
	You got it.
	Look, I was listening to the lady logging truck driver.
	Yes.
	And, you know, it made me think.
	I've listened to your program for a while, and a lot of people call up with ways that they can not pay taxes.
	They want to say, well, I don't have to pay taxes.
	The country's not entitled to take these taxes from me.
	And, you know, it seems to me If people would spend as much energy looking into legally how to pay less taxes, they would be so much better off.
	You wouldn't have to hassle with the government.
	You would pay less taxes.
	Really, I mean, there's nothing wrong with that.
	It's not like you're, you know, you're not doing your part.
	No, there's lots of good legal ways to do it.
	Go buy Iris.
	Exactly.
	I'll tell you, three years ago, three years ago, I went from a $40,000 job down to a $20,000 job.
	And I, I looked into, I got an accountant to start doing my taxes.
	Right.
	And for the, I guess for three years, I wound up where I've made less, I pay less taxes, but yet I have more than I had three years ago.
	And there's nothing illegal about it.
	I mean, I'm claiming all the things, doing everything.
	It's just that I have professional help.
	I have people that are saying, this is how you do it and this is what you need to pay and don't pay.
	People can do what they want to do.
	If they think they can claim that it's not constitutional or that they are now citizens of some other sovereign entity and therefore they don't have to and they're not going to pay taxes and they're going to drive on the roads with their trucks but to hell with taxes, well that's fine.
	But once the IRS gets after you, you're sort of a marked person.
	And as you're pointing out, there are lots of legal ways to do it and to pay less tax or very little tax.
	And all you've got to do is go get a person who knows what they're doing.
	And it's a way of raising yourself in status, too.
	I mean, economically.
	So that you're better off economically.
	No, you're absolutely correct.
	Well, listen, I'm afraid we're utterly out of time, so from Metairie, Louisiana, you get the big honors tonight.
	Thank you.
	Good night, America.
	That's the way to do it.
	All right, well, listen, that will do it for tonight.
	It has been a blast, and we will do it again tomorrow night.
	Watch the Korean situation.
	Watch...
	Watch the volcano in the Caribbean.
	And there are just lots and lots of things to keep our eyes on.
	The new story on OJ, that's remarkable.
	You'll be hearing more about that today.
	Continuing vibrations from the plane crash, Ron Brown's.
	Watch that one carefully, too.

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