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April 8, 1996 - Art Bell

02:50:29

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Open Lines & Unabomber

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unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from April 8th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning, wherever you may be across all these many time zones.
		Had a wonderful weekend off, and it's good to be here from the Achaean and Hawaiian Islands west, all the way across this great nation of Paris, to the Caribbean, and the U.S. Virgin Islands, out into South America, country, please.
		North to the Pole.
		This is coast to coast, A.M. Good to be here.
		Very good to be here.
		Back in the South again.
		Well, there have been two large volcanic eruptions shooting ash, billowing like a gray carpet over a small Caribbean island.
		Montserrat is going up.
		The first of the afternoon eruptions rivaled in size a Saturday eruption that rocketed ash 30 to 40,000 feet in height.
		Monday's eruptions interrupted a news conference by William Ambaugh, head of the Montserrat Volcano Observatory.
		He says now the volcano has entered a stage of higher activity since Wednesday that could produce a, quote, climactic eruption, end quote.
		So Montserrat is going up.
		A lot of other news to talk about.
		Let me, oh yes, of course, let me tell you a couple of things here.
		You know about our international line.
		Well, it is finally perfected and working just spiffy.
		And we would love to have you give it a try.
		Now, on my webpage, we have uploaded most of the world's AT ⁇ T direct access numbers.
		Pretty cool, huh?
		You'll find them on my webpage.
		Keith Rowland staying right on top of everything.
		Boom, boom, boom, just like that.
		Whatever is new is up on that webpage.
		So if you would like to go visit, you may do so at www.artbell.com.
		www.artbell.com.
		A lot of the book signing photos up there, the ones that are going to be in the newsletter, you will find just about everything, as a matter of fact, on that webpage.
		So go take a look.
		Now, the International Line, the first truly toll-free international telephone line has been established, accomplished by the brilliant people at AT ⁇ T. And I should tell you, and I will loosely, that we are now pursuing a large million-watt-plus shortwave station in St. Petersburg, Russia.
		And we may well engage their services or the services of another large shortwave station and be up on shortwave in the next months to come.
		Now, we've got to get it over there on a satellite, or it may be quicker.
		Who knows?
		But we're going to do an Atlantic hop with a satellite signal and come down and then go back up on 1 million watts of shortwave.
		So that's a coming.
		In the meantime, if you should hear us on the internet, and we have real audio sites, as you know, you'll see it up there also on my webpage.
		You can jump over and take a listen.
		WPSL in Port St. Lucie, Florida, and WOAI in San Antonio, Texas.
		So if you're hearing us on the Internet, because of the big 50,000-watt kaboomers out there, and you're not in-country, you can reach us free of charge, free, by calling the AT ⁇ T USA Direct Access Number for your country and then 800-893-0903.
		800-893-0903.
		Fugitive members of the militant anti-government Freemen group have released a defiant written statement on the 15th day of their standoff with the FBI in Jordan, Montana.
		Members of the Freemen posted a statement outside their rule compound.
		Get this, reasserting their independence and denying the validity of the Montana and U.S. governments.
		So hopes for an Easter surrender obviously failed.
		In their negotiations thus far, the Freemen are saying the only way they're coming out is if they can be judged by their own common law court.
		In other words, their justice system, not the justice system.
		So what was beginning to look like a short-term standoff now seems more likely a very long-term problem.
		Which seems more likely to you?
		Violence at the end or a surrender?
		Dear Art, I know you don't often read email messages on the air, but please consider what I have to say regarding the so-called Freemen and other anti-government organizations.
		I'm really sick of the media not referring to the Freemen as what they really are, anarchists, heavily armed anarchists.
		You said it yourself on the air that if the Freemen's demands for the abolition of the federal government were to come true, the end result would be anarchy.
		So what does that make them?
		The Freemen, some militias, posse comitatas, other like-minded groups all have got one thing in common: a hatred of the federal government that is so deep and paranoid that they have dedicated themselves to its destruction.
		Many of these groups also advocate the destruction of the 50 state governments.
		Somebody sent this to me from Montana, poor Montana.
		To anyone concerned about how Montana's tourism trade will fare under the weight of militia movements, Freeman Frenzy and Unabombers, have no fear, KLCY Radio was here.
		Hosts of the Missoula Station's Wacky Breakfast Club show decided Thursday morning to find a catchy new slogan for Montana, just to make sure visitors still want to come.
		Tongue-in-cheek suggestions include 47 of them in all, came from every corner of the listenership there.
		The winner, according to popular vote, welcome to Montana.
		It's where you're wanted.
		Second place, Montana, the great escape.
		Other nominations, Big Sky, the favorite place for the FBI.
		Montana, naturally indicting.
		Montana, the last best place to hide.
		And the unique submission from restaurant owner, well, I won't give his name.
	At least our cows are sane.
unidentified		Our cows, folks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of trouble going on in Korea.
		South Korea is now giving the North a warning that any more troops showing up in the DMZ are going to be shot.
		And in fact, North Korea has been sending large numbers, hundreds of heavily armed North Korean troops into the DMZ.
		Oh boy, is this dangerous.
		They did it for three nights in a row.
		We'll find out about tonight later.
		Tensions are high.
		South Korea and the U.S. on the highest alert since the truce with North Korea.
		And I've got a question for you, and I want you to think really hard about this.
		How many of you think that we could actually muster the people to fight another Asian war?
		If it comes down to it, if the Koreans, and they've got about 2 million people now starving, decide to do something stupid, and I would not rule it out.
		How many of you think we could muster, if we had to, enough Americans to go and fight in Korea?
		Now, I know we have a force there now.
		We would have to have many more.
		Dear Art, further information on the OJ lie detector test story.
		Story was broken by Harvey Levin, investigative reporter for LA TV station.
		He's been around a long time, says, the info from several different stories, sources rather, here's how I heard it.
		OJ was sent to a doctor, accompanied by Robert Kardashian, by Shapiro.
		But Shapiro had not yet entered his appearance as O.J.'s lawyer.
		Apparently, it was arranged ahead of time.
		The doctor then sent them to, or called in, a man named Ed Gelb, who is one of the best and most respected in L.A. in the field.
		He's not a medical doctor, but is a Ph.D., very well known and an expert in lie detection.
		Levin says O.J. and Kardashian were both furious, but O.J. did take the test.
		This was two days after the murders.
		He failed it miserably with a minus six.
		In the immortal words of Gomer Pyle, surprise, surprise, Pat in Boise.
		Minus six, huh?
		Dear Art, Elizabeth has forced me out.
		Sorry I can't call in, but you're not the Antichrist.
		If anyone is, it must be me.
		If there's anything I could do for humanity, it would be to remove the error of Christianity.
		How's that, Art?
		The Antichrist is a Jeffersonian constitutional conservative working as a late-night shift typesetter in Livermore, California.
		Reminiscent of the Twilight Zone episode in which Burgess Meredith portrayed the devil working as a linotype operator, a small town newspaper.
		Hmm, at least I work unlike the socialist in Kansas City.
		I don't make this stuff up, Art.
		More about the error of Christianity in the future.
		Jeff, the Antichrist in Livermore, working late as usual.
		Anyway, we'll be right back.
unidentified		Burrish
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Unibomber has been the big news, and I must say, it fascinates me.
		I don't know why.
		The Unibomber fascinates me, and I'm going to let you hear some of his quotes here in a moment.
		We'll probably talk about them.
		The Unibomber is a serial killer, a long one, too.
		17 years, this guy killed.
		FBI thinks they've got the right guy, Theodore Kaczynski, a Montana hermit.
		Three murders, 23 injured so far, charged with now only possession of an explosive.
		But they have found chemicals that match the ones used in the bomb.
		A typewriter that they say is a preliminary match to the one that wrote his manifesto.
		Woodworking tools.
		The writings.
		As a matter of fact, that's kind of what got him caught, were his writings.
		And he used very similar phrases.
		His brother found these writings, can you imagine that?
		Actually thought he was a unabomber, thought he might be, hired a detective, hired an ex-FBI fellow Who said, yes, these look like the same writings to me.
		They allegedly have got some saliva DNA, which would allow them to narrow it to about 3% of the population, should it be a match.
		He committed murder in two states, wounded people in six others.
		Now, California would like to try him, but that is not going to happen.
		What is going to happen is probably a trial in federal court.
		That's my best guess.
		California has not had a lot of luck with high-profile trials lately, and so I think the feds are going to be not interested in letting him go there.
		There has been established a loose connection to Earth First.
		In other words, he apparently went to some of their meetings.
		You know, it's very interesting, I think.
		In a way, the Unibomber is as much of a left-wing environmentalist wacko as Timothy McVeigh is thought to be on the right.
		Now, maybe some of you can help me out with this.
		He was a math teacher.
		He's said to have an IQ of 150 plus.
		And in his manifesto, he talks a great deal about the catastrophe theory.
		Now, I don't know what it is.
		I don't know what the catastrophe theory is, specifically.
		And anybody who can help with that, I would appreciate it.
		Is it like the chaos theory?
		I am familiar with that.
		But what is the catastrophe theory?
		It was offered on one of the Sunday shows, Brinkley, I believe, that he will likely go for an insanity defense.
		Matter of fact, they had Jerry Spence on talking about that.
		And Jerry Spence said, basically, that if this is a man who has the right message but the wrong delivery, so to speak, and I'm paraphrasing what he said, that an insanity defense is quite likely because that is saying, in essence, you don't know the difference between right and wrong.
		In other words, the message may be right, but clearly the method was so wrong that you make the case that the guy does not know the difference between right and wrong.
		And that is the way we determine, I guess, insanity.
		We say somebody is insane if they cannot differentiate between right and wrong.
		Jerry Spence said, these days, many intelligent people have withdrawn from society.
		And I suppose that may be true.
		Not all of them send bombs.
		I'm going to give you a couple of lines from the manifesto of the Unibomber.
		He said, for example, quote, the industrial technological system may survive, but only at the cost of permanently reducing human beings and many other living organisms to engineered products and mere cogs in the social machine, end quote.
		Jerry Spence said, I suspect many Americans may agree with that.
		Do you?
		Then he goes on to say, the Unibomber, quote, industrial technological society cannot be reformed in such a way as to prevent it from progressively narrowing the sphere of human freedom.
		Now this gets right back into the very center of what we were talking about toward the end of last week, and I'm very interested in this.
		You guys know me, I'm right on the edge of technological developments of all kinds.
		As a matter of fact, if you want to know the truth, I'm glad they got the Unibomber, because I was afraid he might come after me.
		And he might have.
		In just about every area, computers, satellite, technology, communications, systems, you name it, and we're sitting on it right here and use it.
		So let's talk about this again.
		Let's listen to this again.
		Industrial technological society cannot be reformed in such a way as to prevent it from progressively narrowing the sphere of human freedom.
		Now that's a very serious charge.
		And there's probably something to it.
		It's saying that as we progress with each new technological step we take forward, we take a step backward with regard to individual freedom.
		Do you agree with that?
		He goes on, freedom means being in control of the life and death issues of one's existence.
		Freedom means having power, not the power to control other people, but the power to control the circumstances of one's own life.
	End quote.
	So, again, I think a lot of you probably would agree with that, wouldn't you?
	So, is he the Unabomber?
	Sure looks like it.
	Now they're proving how he traveled.
	They've got a bus ticket agent who recognized him, a bus driver, another bus driver in California, a Sacramento, California hotel owner, A transient hotel owner.
	So he was in the right place, at the right time, to do what they will no doubt allege he did.
	In jail, it's said he is uninterested in any headlines about himself.
	And he's reading a lot of very old history type books.
	Doing a lot of reading, but not concerned.
	again jerry spence these days many intelligent people withdraw from society i don't know why i'm And I had callers last week who said it came from the devil.
	It comes from the devil.
	And that I'm probably the Antichrist.
	So I've been doing a lot of thinking about it before they began to call me the Antichrist.
	I thought about it.
	And I constantly think about it, ruminate about technology.
	I'm in love with it, but I recognize there is a dark side.
	Anyway, if you want to comment, you're welcome to, particularly on some of the things the man said.
	We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 8, 1996.
		We'll be right back.
		Frequent Radio Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired April 8th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, world.
		Good to be here.
		Coast to coast and well, well beyond.
		This, of course, is called Coast to Coast Day, and a lot of people have been saying why to change the name of it.
		I don't think so.
		It's just a few more coasts here and there.
unidentified		That's all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll leave it that way.
		Here's a facts.
		Believe it's accurate, dear art.
		Report today at noon on our CBS affiliate here in Sacramento.
		A pathologist has confirmed that a woman has died of the disease, the mad cow disease, that affects people.
		Now, she had never been to England, worked as a counselor for the local school district in Stockton.
		Pathologists said, we just don't know why.
		But we shouldn't be concerned about eating meat and so forth.
		Since the woman never had been to Europe, I would say that somebody ought to be asking some pretty hard questions.
		Mad cow disease already?
		Somebody sent me something pretty funny, which I thought I would read for you, and then we'll go to the poems.
		Imagine, if you will, the leader of the Fifth Invader Force speaking to the Commander-in-Chief.
		Now these are aliens, right?
		Talking about us.
		They're made out of meat.
		Meat?
		Meat.
		They're made out of meat.
unidentified		Meat?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's no doubt about it.
		We picked several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, probed them all the way through.
		They're completely meat.
		That's impossible.
		What about the radio signals?
		The messages to the stars.
		They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them.
		The signals come from machines.
		So, who made the machines?
		That's who we want to contact.
		They made the machines.
		That's what I'm trying to tell you.
		Meat made the machines.
		That's ridiculous.
		How can meat make a machine?
		You're asking me to believe in sentient meat?
		I'm not asking you.
		I'm telling you.
		These creatures are the only sentient race in the sector, and they're made out of meat.
		Maybe they're like the Orphole, you know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage.
		Nope.
		They're meat and they die meat.
		We studied them for several of their lifespans, which didn't take very long.
		Do you have any idea the lifespan of meat?
		Spare me.
		Okay, maybe they're only part meat, you know, like the Weddellai.
		A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside.
		Nope.
		We thought of that, since they do have meat heads like the Weddellai, but I told you we probed them.
		They're all meat.
unidentified		Meat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Through and through.
		No brain?
		Oh yes, there's a brain, all right.
		It's just that the brain is made out of meat.
		So then, what does the thinking?
		You're not understanding, are you?
		The brain does the thinking.
		The meat.
		Thinking meat?
		You're asking me to believe in thinking meat?
		Yes, thinking meat.
		Conscious meat.
		Loving meat, dreaming meat, the meat.
		It's the whole deal.
		Are you beginning to get the picture?
		Oh my God, you're serious then.
		They're made out of meat.
		Finally, yes, they're indeed made out of meat.
		And They've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years.
		So, what does the meat have in mind?
		First, it wants to talk to us.
		Then, I imagine it wants to explore the universe.
		Contact other life forms, swap ideas and information, the usual.
		We're supposed to talk to meat?
		That's the idea.
		That's the message they're sending out by radio.
		Hello out there, anyone home?
		That sort of thing?
		They actually do talk then.
		They use words, ideas, concepts.
unidentified		Oh yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Except they do it with meat.
		I thought you just told me.
		They used radio.
		They do.
		But what do you think is on the radio?
		Meat sounds.
		You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise?
		They talk by clapping their meat at each other.
		They can even sing by squirting air through their meat.
		Oh my God, singing meat.
		This is altogether just too much.
		So what do you advise?
		Officially or unofficially both?
		Officially, we're required to contact, welcome, and log in any and all sentient races or multi-beings in the quadrant without prejudice, fear, or favor.
		Unofficially, though, I advise we erase the records and forget the whole damn thing.
		I was hoping you'd say that.
		It seems harsh, but there is a limit.
		I mean, do we really want to make contact with meat?
		Well, I agree 100%.
		What's there to say?
		Hello, meat.
		How's it going?
		Will this work?
		How many planets are we dealing with here?
		Just one.
		They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them.
		And being meat, they only travel through sea space, which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact with us pretty slim.
		Infinitesimal, actually.
		So we just pretend there's no one home in the universe.
		That's it.
		Cruel.
		But you said it yourself.
		Who wants to meet meat?
		And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed, you're sure they won't remember?
		They'll be considered crackpots if they do.
		We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat, so we're just a dream to them.
		A dream to meet.
		How strangely appropriate that we should be meat's dream.
		And we can mark this sector unoccupied?
		Good.
		Agreed.
		Officially and officially.
		Case closed.
		Any others?
		Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?
		Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a Class 9 star in G445 zone was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again.
		They always come around.
		And why not?
		Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the universe would be if one were all alone.
		And then finally, remember the thing about duct taping two cats back to back?
		Remember that?
		Somebody writes, what do you get when you duct tape two cats back to back?
		Answer, about 130 stitches on your arms and face.
		Wild guard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I'm Stegan Arbell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I hope so.
unidentified		Oh, great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		From Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Well, first of all, I really appreciate what you're doing as far as letting people become more aware of whether it be Scallion or whether it be Daniel Brinkley or whatever.
unidentified		You're giving a great service in the last two years to people's awareness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		What you call the quickening is another source in Greek that calls it the unveiling, which is the apocalypse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the quickening, one definition of it, is the first feeling of life that a woman has, you know, when the child moves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the quickening is not necessarily the end, or if it is, it's the end of one thing and the beginning of another.
unidentified		I agree.
unidentified		That's why in Greek it is called the unveiling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
unidentified		Not the ending, but the unveiling.
		What I wanted to mention, though, is that Daniel Brinkley, in his book, Saved by Light, had mentioned that there was going to be a nuclear accident in the Arctic Ocean.
		Right.
		And that this was going to pollute the entire seas as well as waters eventually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of fact, I'm about to have him back on Dreamland.
unidentified		Oh, that's fantastic.
		Anyway, that has already transpired.
		I wrote this down.
		On November 7th, 1995, on Tom Brokaw's NBC News at 5.37 Western Standard Time, he mentioned that there was an accident similar to Chernobyl, but half as bad.
		Now, they don't know how bad it is, but he mentioned half as bad in the Arctic Ocean.
		Now, this is what I want people to be aware of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Why there's an unveiling going on, is that Revelations 8, 8 says that a third of the waters would be dead, as well as a third of the fish.
unidentified		Now, when those bellies start coming up, and they will be coming up this year, remember that we're in the middle of the trumpets of Revelations 8.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I appreciate the call.
		I have not heard them myself, but maybe I'm not listening carefully enough.
		Hitchhikers keep talking about them.
		People take people into their cars, and the stories proliferate of hitchhikers saying Gabriel's blowing the horn or about to blow the horn, and then these people reportedly disappear.
		It's happening out here in the West.
		And I doubted it, and I got a lot of reports from police departments.
		It is occurring.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		Hello.
		Get the volume here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Yeah, this is Matt Cole, once again, from Idaho.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I was asking last week about the Unibomber's brother and what he would do with the money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The answer was forthcoming earlier today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They will donate it if they get it to the families of the victims.
unidentified		It seems like a fairly noble, good thing to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it does.
unidentified		As far as the Unibomber himself, you know, you get all these stories of, you know, apparently single white guys lurking out there in the shadows, kind of get everybody.
unidentified		And me being a single white guy, you know, I wonder if there's some monster within me or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you feel it, sir?
unidentified		I feel it was like you said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, do you feel the monster lurking somewhere down there, just barely held down by your strong will?
unidentified		Sometimes I feel that these people like the Unibomber, they do have some kind of a vision of what, you know, the bad things that are going on.
		And it's, you know, it's like you were saying, I'm fascinated by what this guy says.
		Of course, his method of getting attention is quite antisocial.
		But my goodness, some of the things he says are just so right on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		That worries me as well.
		The man has an IQ in excess of 150.
		That's a bright guy.
		By the way, while we're back on that subject, Dear Art, yes, there is similarity between aspects of catastrophe theory and chaos theory, in that both theories make predictions about unstable systems.
		Systems which may at first glance look simple, but then may suddenly change their state without warning.
		That's from Ron with a master's degree in math in Birmingham, Alabama.
		So I guess both theories look to the probability or even inevitability that a system that is complex beyond a certain point and working will at some point become unstable and stop working.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Well, hi, Arthur.
unidentified		This is Pete in Queasy, Portland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Pete.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
unidentified		A couple of things.
		Earthquakes and the Unibomber.
		Yes.
		Easter Sunday morning, about 6 in the morning, we had a couple of earthquakes.
		One was far off in the ocean off of Coos Bay.
		Yeah.
		And the other was about four miles under Mount Hood.
		Yes, I've been hearing two points something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think Mount Hood's about to come to life?
unidentified		Well, we hope not.
unidentified		Apparently, Lewis and Clark had just missed the last small eruptive phase.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's obvious with all of the volcanoes around the world now beginning to come to life, it wouldn't surprise me if Mount Hood began to rumble.
unidentified		It'd be a real mess, all right?
unidentified		Oh, we've got a multi-million dollar skiing and resort industry up there, and it's downhill to Portland from there, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's rather obvious to me that magma be flowing.
unidentified		Well, off to the Unibomber.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Now, as far as I can figure out from his manifesto, he thinks that technology is what's keeping us down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's not quite accurate.
		He thinks technology eventually will take us down.
		In other words, as we advance, technologically, socially, we regress.
unidentified		Well, that is kind of true, but we started it.
		Remember a while back we discussed the different modes of living, like migratory nomadism and agriculture and building of cities.
		When you build a city, it's almost like a nuclear reactor, where you bring uranium atoms together, they exchange particles and produce heat.
		Well, you bring people together, get them to set aside some of their freedoms, they exchange information and ideas and produce technology as a product.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
unidentified		Now, I'm thinking that the end result, well, there's a number of ways of reforming that.
		One is to have a big population crash.
		That'll stop the reaction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that'll stop a lot.
		Thank you, Pede.
		Look, let's make the case against technology.
		Much as I hate to do that, I understand, to some degree, what it is doing.
		It is depersonalizing society.
		In other words, in the, quote, good old days, people had to have contact with each other.
		You had to do that.
		Stories, news, current events, what was going on in the community had to be relayed from person to person.
		This necessitated contact between people.
		For those who wanted to be informed or hear the latest rumor or whatever it was, there was social connection with technology, the internet, things like Vidian, which I just dearly love, and I really think they're more positive than negative.
		But they do allow people to sequester themselves and not have the kind of social contact they once had.
		so that is certainly a possible downside to the technological revolution and probably what the unabomber to some degree was talking about the you East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello, how you doing?
		I'm fine.
		This is Fred from New Orleans.
		Hi, Fred.
		How you doing?
		I think I was listening to this with a lot of interest on things you were saying when you first came up about technology and whatnot.
		And I think it was kind of quick off in my head that I was thinking about it was that I think the thing about technology is that it's deceptive.
		It's basically, I see it, like a tool of separation.
		I think the more of it you have, it gives one a sense of power.
		I think ultimately a false sense of godhood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is power.
		Now, I think you might be stretching it.
		godhood i don't know about that not gotten in the in the straight-up sense in There's no question about it.
unidentified		Sure, sure.
		I think essentially, you know, the more you have, the more of it you want to have.
		And I think the more of it, it's just like anything else, power corrupts.
		And I think that, you know, one tends to think that the more of it I have, that I don't need anything else, that I can do anything I want to do.
		And I think that in and of itself is dangerous.
		I think it's also an assertion of self.
		You know, I just think that, you know, it basically causes separation.
		I think it can almost be attributed to maybe a similarity to that.
		And maybe I was going to go so far as maybe on the biblical analogy, like the apple.
		You know, you will be like God.
		And I do believe there's something to that.
		And I think maybe the fear that I think some people make sense in it is that there is something there's something wrong with it when it gets out of control.
		I think people do idolize and worship it.
		I really do.
		I think they may not be aware that they do that.
		But I think a lot of people do worship technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's quite an accusation.
		And I'll take it over.
		I appreciate your call, sir.
		I don't think I worship technology.
		I enjoy it.
		I plunge myself into it.
		But worship, no.
		Technology and all it brings to me, there's no confusion between that and a deity or a God.
		So I think I reject that.
		I'm very thoughtful about the implications of technology, but I think I reject the argument that I worship it or that anybody does.
		Oh, maybe somebody does.
		But technology is but man's doings.
		I mean, we're the ones bringing it.
		And if God didn't want us to bring technology to the world, then why is he allowing us to do it?
		One might ask.
		Free will, one might answer.
		Anyway, we'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired April 8th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here I am, and you're listening to Live Overnight Talk Radio because this radio station cares enough to have live talk radio on.
		Morning, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell talking about the Unibomber, technology, a lot of what he's had to say.
		Jerry Spence was on over the weekend saying, perhaps, in insanity fleet.
		In other words, a man with the right message who doesn't know right from wrong.
		Interesting.
		But here's a factor who facts me the Unibomber's written motives for his essay.
		Quote, if we, plural, had never done anything violent and had submitted the present writings to a publisher, they probably would not have been accepted.
		If they had been accepted and published, they probably would not have attracted many readers, because it's more fun to watch the entertainment put out by the media than to read a sober essay.
		Even if these writings had attracted many readers, most of them would have forgotten what they had read as their minds were flooded by the massive material to which the media exposes them.
		In order to get our message, again plural, our message, before the public with some chance of making a lasting impression, we've had to kill people, end quote.
		Now that exposes a mind that very well indeed understands it is doing wrong for a specific reason and would seem to me to rule out the possibility of an insanity plea.
		Interesting.
		All right, reminding you, we do have our international line up and running.
		And whether you're listening to us long distance on AM or on the Internet, and soon on one million watts of shortwave, no matter how you're hearing us, if you would like to contact us from any other country, Okay.
		I've lost it again.
		I try to keep all my stuff together here.
		What you do is dial the USA direct access number, whatever that is for your country, or get the operator, and then simply dial 800-893-0903 from anywhere in the world.
		That number again, 800-893-0903.
		Now, the catastrophe theory.
		Tom Strong, as a TA joint, is known for his development of catastrophe theory, a mathematical treatment of continuous action producing a discontinuous result.
		His theory is an attempt to describe, in a way that is impossible, using differential calculus, those situations in which gradually changing forces lead to so-called catastrophes or abrupt changes.
		The theory has widespread application in the physical and biological sciences and in the social sciences.
		So that apparently is one that this man with an IQ of 150 or better followed.
		Somebody sent me an unkind cartoon about Montana.
		It is pretty funny.
		It shows this long, long, straight road apparently cutting through Montana, headed toward the mountains.
		And it says, there's a sign that says, welcome to Montana.
		Thank you for not blowing up anything.
		And then there's a sign on the right, says speed limit, you name it.
		And then there's another sign that says, anti-government militias, 185 miles.
		Nutcase bombers, 230 miles.
		Junction to Idaho and white separatists, supremists, rather, 315 miles.
		Cold.
		I don't know where I think this came from.
		From Phoenix.
		The poor people of Montana.
		All of a sudden, I don't think Montana's been this much in the news since it joined the Union.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello, this is Jack in Charleston, South Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jack.
unidentified		I was wondering if the Unabomber had the advantage to be able to use probably one of the highest forms of technology, in other words, a time machine, if he would do it, to go back to the past.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They say he's studying history books and reading books on the medieval times.
unidentified		Oh, I wonder if he would go forward to see if his theories prove true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you could go forward in time, do you think his theories will prove to be true?
unidentified		I really don't think so, because you always have a pretty strong human spirit.
		You know, I heard an attorney, I think, talking about the unibomber, when he goes to trial, probably won't even be put on the stand.
		But I think that what would be the point of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think he'll demand to go on the stand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, just like what he printed in the Washington Post, of course, the thing is, if it's a federal trial, it will not be telecast.
unidentified		Well, there would still be reports coming out from it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, true.
unidentified		If he didn't go on the stand, that would be his prime opportunity.
unidentified		What would be the point of sending bombs and running his manifesto if he's going to sit quietly in the courtroom?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
		I appreciate your call, and you're right.
		I'm sure he'll have something to say.
		Here's another quote from the Unibomber.
		A lot of people are sending them to me.
		Thus, science marches on blindly without regard to the real welfare of the human race or to any other standard, obedient only to the psychological needs of the scientists and the government officials and corporation executives who provide the funds for research.
		And this.
		ABC News, of course, reported the maintenance supervisor of the airport that Secretary Brown's plane was supposed to land at killed himself after an investigation.
		It, though, was decided the suicide was not connected at all with the crash.
		Isn't that interesting?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Mr. Bell.
		That's me.
		I had a couple of comments that I'd like to share with you tonight.
		Fire away.
		I live in Saskatchewan, Canada.
		Ah!
		And on the CTV national news tonight, they said that the FBI had found an unexploded bomb at the Uni-Bomber residence and had to defuse it.
		So I guess he was planning on more.
		Yeah, apparently.
		You asked earlier if you figured the American people would support another Asian war or would be willing to participate.
		I don't know how Americans would feel about it, but I don't think you could find anybody in Canada that would.
		Not after everything that has happened over there in the last 50 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I rather suspect that the same answer is going to be true in America if Korea suddenly exploded, and it sure could.
		You know, they're kind of tight-lipped on this, but there are 2 million people starving to death in North Korea.
		Making moves into the DMZ, sending hundreds of heavily armed military into the DMZ is very serious.
unidentified		Well, it is, and I think there were enough American youngsters lost in the Vietnam War that nobody will ever be willing to take a chance on a repeat of something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you, and I thank you for the call.
		You know, obviously they're trying to, to some degree, downplay this.
		And they're suggesting that Korea is, in essence, doing this just to kind of rattle South Korea's cage prior to an election, as China rattled Taiwan's.
		But there really are about 2 million people already starving to death in North Korea.
		North Korea is not a rational country.
		Its people may be, but I'll tell you, if anything will drive a country to war, it is starvation.
		And if there's anything that will cause an irrational communist government to act, it is internal trouble.
		They will inevitably cause external trouble To save their people.
		So, there you've got it.
		I don't rule it out.
		You should not either.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I'm calling from Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Another Canadian call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		I have a story that might shock you because I know it shocked me when it happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I've never heard of it before.
unidentified		In the 80s, my husband suffered a massive heart attack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
unidentified		And we were waiting.
		We knew it was bad.
		And there wasn't much hope.
		But 15 days went by.
		He lingered.
		And we were in the lounge.
		Now, he was in the intensive care.
		And we were in the lounge just across the hall from the intensive care and just about one door down.
		Like, you get the picture?
		Yes.
		I do.
		Okay.
		So we were waiting patiently because we knew a very bad day.
		It might be the D-Day.
		And about 3 o'clock in the afternoon, the doctor opened the lounge door and walked in.
		And I looked up and he just shook his head up and down and turned and walked out.
		And as he did that, and you're going to be shocked when you hear this, my husband's soul came through that lounge and we had the window opened in the lounge because at that time there was no air conditioning in the hospital, at that particular hospital.
		And we had that window wide open and it came right through and it was about and right out the window, went right out the window.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me stop you and ask you, did you actually see this?
unidentified		I actually seen it with my own eyes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and what did it look like?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Describe as best you can what you saw.
unidentified		All right.
		It was white in color.
		I'm a bit nervous because I know everybody's going to call me a nut.
		It was white in color.
		It was between 12 to 15 inches long, like in that range.
		It was moving so fast, it was very hard, you know, to say the exact range, but it was, I would say, 12 inches long.
		And it was pure energy.
		Just nothing but pure energy.
		It was like cloud-like, but not fluffy like a cloud, more compacted.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I understand.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't, listen, ma'am.
		I don't think you're a nut.
		I believe this, and I thank you for the call.
		Listen, everybody.
		I do believe we have souls.
		I have always believed that.
		And I have my own belief in God, no matter who may think I'm the Antichrist.
		And I'm convinced we have souls.
		Human beings have souls.
		Now, there have been actual experiments, I wonder if you knew this, in which people at the moment of death have been measured, their weight carefully monitored, and at the very moment of death, there has been a detectable three-ounce change in their weight.
		People have variously tried to describe this as exhalation of gases and a lot of other things.
		But what I'm telling you is scientifically established fact.
		Now you can do with that what you want.
		You can believe it, you can disbelieve it, but it is true.
		Science has discovered there is an actual change in weight at the moment of death.
unidentified		So, a soul?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm not surprised.
		Do I think you're a nut?
		No, I don't.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Hey, I'm a Jay from Baton Rouge.
		Baton Rouge?
		WJBO country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can get a lot of calls from Baton Rouge.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
unidentified		And I don't think old things about Unibomber today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Have you gotten any latest news?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think so, yes.
unidentified		Well, because one thing I heard just now on the CBS news we get hourly is that apparently they found names of the victims in some of Yida Momber's handwriting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would seem to cinch it.
unidentified		Have you heard that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's a new one.
unidentified		It seems to me Bill, a couple of nails in the coffin there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if there were any names of people that were on his list but had not been tended to yet.
unidentified		I would hate to be on that list, wouldn't you?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I wouldn't be surprised to find myself on it.
unidentified		One thing I was thinking about just now was that can you see it coming where one day the Unobombers Manifesto will be required reading in college campuses?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Can you see that coming?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		To me that seems sad, I guess, how people kind of glorify someone like that in that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is sad because of the manner of the delivery of the message.
		But did you hear what I read a little while ago about what the Unibomber wrote with regard to why he did it?
		In other words, why he killed?
unidentified		Because nobody otherwise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		You know what?
		He's probably right.
unidentified		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's probably right.
		That doesn't make it right.
		That just makes him right.
		And I think it makes him sane.
		In other words, thank you very much.
		He was very Much aware of the wrong he was doing.
		Killing to make sure his message got out.
		I would suspect, though I don't know, that he regards himself as a martyr.
		I really think that's the way he thinks about himself.
		that he is a martyr, necessary to get that information out.
		Those of you trying to get through, my international line has been ringing about three or four times now, and I just haven't been able to get to it.
		So if you're trying to get through, please keep trying to get through, and we will catch it at the right moment.
		We treat that line as we do all the others and allow it to ring until it is answered.
		Obviously, we don't want people on hold from China.
		So the way to do it, if you're anywhere in the world, but the USA, Canada, and Mexico, call your AT ⁇ T USA direct access number, then dial 800-893-0903.
		You know a place I really want to hear from?
		And I know I have a lot of listeners there.
		The Tahitian Islands, Tahiti, or Guam.
		Have listeners on Guam, too.
		So I believe you could probably call from Guam.
		Somebody ought to try it.
		The USA Direct Access Number followed by 800-893-0903.
		And from any point in the whole world, it will be toll-free.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, just wait till I turn off my radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we'll do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And tell us where you are.
unidentified		This is the lady truck driver from Saskatchewan, Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good.
unidentified		How are you tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am fine.
unidentified		Okay, I wanted to say one thing.
unidentified		I heard about the nurse seeing the soul, spirit, or something leave a dead person's body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		When I was in the UFO, I distinctly remember them putting me back into my body.
		I am serious.
		I've discussed this with Buddy Wynn.
		This all documents are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You remember who putting you back in your body?
unidentified		The aliens.
unidentified		They slid me back into my body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like a banana back into a banana peel.
unidentified		You betcha.
		I know people will say I'm a coop.
		People will say this can't be happening.
		but I am 100% sure that I am not my body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This has just got to be a house of Okay, angels?
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're easy then.
unidentified		I mean, I was in a UFO.
		I was in a ship in the sky that was saucer-shaped.
		I know that.
		That's reality.
		There were six other drivers behind me that saw the spaceship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean truck drivers?
unidentified		Yes.
		We were all on the road together.
		This is documented.
		There was, I don't know if I should say their names, the trucking company's names over the radio.
		They may not appreciate that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, they might not.
unidentified		So there was, in all, four company, different company trucks out there with six trucks involved altogether.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is impressive.
		and you probably ought to...
		Do you have their names?
unidentified		If I had to, I could do all that.
unidentified		I wouldn't be saying this over national radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know what I would like to do?
unidentified		What?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See if you can arrange this and contact me privately.
		Get me the names and phone numbers of two or three of these people.
		And I'll bring them all on at once.
unidentified		I'll try.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you?
unidentified		These are truck drivers, you know, Knights in Shining Armor in the Dark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, I know, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I will go out of my way to try to arrange it if you can get me the information.
unidentified		I'll try.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, dear.
		I'll give it a shot.
		I'm willing to do anything like that.
		You know me.
		It's very impressive when you have a group of people willing to tell or who have seen the same thing and are willing to verify.
		Very, very interesting, and I'd be more than willing to do that.
		With that, we'll pause here at the bottom of the hour and be back with more in one moment.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 8, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April 8, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April 8, 1996.
		Music You're listening to Mark Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 8th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's just in.
		Dear Mr. Bell, Kogo News just said there are more...
		There are more illegal aliens that got hurt and killed in Temecula, California.
		They were fleeing from Border Patrol agents.
		Kogo said the agents were observing the non-pursuit policy.
		When the aliens flipped the vehicle into a ditch, radicals are blaming the Border Patrol and the Immigration Service for being prejudice.
		Yours truly, Border Patrol.
		And then this, Hi Art, I wonder if the Unibomber is listening to you right now.
		If he were listening, what would you say to him?
		I don't know.
		More to the point, if he was listening or I could interview him, what would I ask?
		What would you ask?
		Well, I think that I would ask him how he expects all of this to unfold.
		Again, this is a man with an IQ, it is said, of plus above 150, which is way up into the genius category.
		And so I might ask him how it would unfold.
		And while we're on that subject, this.
		HiArt.
		Stumbled your way by accident while sleepless about six months ago on KSFO in San Francisco.
		Some good friends of mine own Higher Octave, so there was an additional link besides loving the show.
		Brief comment.
		Much spiritual wisdom speaks of impermanence.
		In other words, nothing is to remain the same.
		Destruction must happen as a precursor to creation.
		Aha.
		Quickening.
		So, how about opening a forum for what people believe might be after the destruction of the world as we know it?
		This would provide a juicy second act.
		All the best, your pal.
		No name.
		Well, that is an interesting question, and it's the one I might pose if I were to be able to ask the Unabomber anything.
		In other words, he obviously foresees a catastrophe occurring, catastrophic something, and I've had those feelings myself.
		But it will not be the end, or the end for some or even many, but not, in my opinion, for mankind.
		So the question is, if there is a catastrophic occurrence, whatever it would be, social, astronomical, you name it, geophysical, what would come after?
		In other words, if something, in essence, destroyed the present technological civilization that we've got, what do you think would rise like a phoenix from the ashes?
		Oh, that is a juicy question, isn't it?
		Anybody have any thoughts?
		On the international line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Now, wait a minute.
		You've got to press the button first, Art.
		Now, on the international line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, hello.
unidentified		Miss Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
unidentified		Bob.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Bob.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Belize on Key Cocker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Belize?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's absolutely excellent.
		This is our second call.
		Are you the man who called from Belize before?
unidentified		Yes, yes.
		I have went down to bank.
		I thought I'd put a little thought in your mind on the new beginning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sure.
unidentified		Or not maybe not the new beginnings, but the monies.
		The new money coming out?
		Yes.
		Down here, I've noticed that all of a sudden that they're giving a better exchange rate for travelers' checks than they are for American cash.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is the, if I might ask, what is the currency that you use in Belize?
unidentified		Belizean currency is their own currency.
		I think it's kind of attached to American greenback.
		I'm not sure, because they're like we are.
		They're in a deficit spending, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they are, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you say, so you're getting a better exchange rate now for the dollar to Belize currency?
unidentified		No, I'm getting a better.
unidentified		I would get a better exchange rate if I had traveler's checks than greenbacks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, I'll tell you right now, that is absolutely true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And most travel agents are telling people that pretty much as you travel throughout the world right now, for whatever reason, traveler's checks are worth more, and I don't know why.
unidentified		Well, it wouldn't be anything to do with the fact that the new American dollars are going to be, foreign exchange dollars are going to be 40% guaranteed on gold, and American domestic is only going to be, what, script?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what you might do, you could do me a big, big favor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you lay your hands on a $100 bill?
unidentified		New one?
		Yeah.
		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's too bad, because what we're hearing is the Russians are very concerned, and they're saying the new $100 bill is different than the new domestic $100 bill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I wanted to talk to somebody outside the country who would be able to tell me.
unidentified		Well, I'm going to leave here probably before the end of the month.
		I'm going to be transferring some money over to American money, but I would suspect I'm going to get greenbacks instead of the new ones.
		If that be the case, I get the new stuff, I'll surely give you a call from Houston.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I will look forward to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that where you're headed back to?
unidentified		Oh, yeah, that's where I'll be heading as soon as I leave here.
unidentified		Houston, and traveling the roads of the States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my friend.
		Thank you very much for the call, and take care.
		That's my Belize caller sitting down there, listening to us on a Sony Walkman.
		I didn't ask him this time whether he was in the hammock or not.
		But laying in a hammock, listening to WOAI on a Sony Walkman.
		A lot of Americans down there enjoying Belize.
		And again, if you are anywhere outside this country, as A-Man is, and will be for a while yet, simply call the AT ⁇ T direct access number for whatever country you're in, it varies, and then dial 800-893-0903.
		Doesn't matter where in the world you are, even communist China.
		The AT ⁇ T USA direct access number and then 800-893-0903.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Let me turn down the dish here, just a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The dish here.
unidentified		Good evening to you on satellite F1, Channel 5.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's where we are.
unidentified		Yeah, this is Murphy from Montana.
		Yes, sir.
		I always thought it was interesting, nobody's brought up the fact that the Freemen and some of the militia up here throughout the year have stated that they thought the government was controlling the weather.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are a lot of people who believe that.
unidentified		Well, it's one of the things that they're claiming, and also one of the concerns, this is published in the paper, one of the concerns was that the government was going to bombard them with high-frequency vibrations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell you what, I'm going to read you something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just stay on the line and listen to this, all right?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I debated whether I really ought to read this, whether it would be a violation of this man's security oath, but I'm not going to give his name.
		Dear Art, in 1990, I was stationed aboard the USS Olette and was involved in the early stages of HARP testing.
		My ship was outfitted with classified equipment by the Naval Research Labs and several NRL technicians were aboard.
		Accompanying us on this mission was the submarine, the USS Queenfish.
		The test took place off the coast of Alaska around May, I believe.
		A special antenna system was erected fore and aft, and about 15 minutes prior to the testing, the Queenfish was ordered to submerge, and the crew of my ship was ordered below decks into quotes here, deep shelter.
		Deep shelter is normally used as a defense against nuclear fallout, or EMP.
		My deep shelter station was in the transmitter room of the ship's hull-mounted sonar system.
		This system was offline, powered down during the test.
		At test time, we suffered a massive power surge, and my transmitters lit up like a Christmas tree.
		All 572 transmitter modules activated, and the pulse blew out all 572 fuses.
		We were told that we were involved in missions dealing with national security.
		This is the first time that I've told anyone about this.
		With a power surge that strong, could it have had some adverse effect on me or the rest of the crew?
		Could you please consult Dr. Begich concerning this?
		Please do not mention my name on the air, and he gives his name and his position on that ship.
		What does that sound like to you, sir?
unidentified		Yeah, that sounds like it.
unidentified		There's no mention, though, of any physiological effects or mental effects there, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, in fact, he's asking whether there may have been any on him.
unidentified		Okay, so none apparent while they were doing it, so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I regard this as genuine, and I returned the email and asked him if he wanted to be an anonymous guest on the program.
unidentified		Well, I hope he responds.
		So do I. One more thing, Art.
		Do you remember when this whole thing came down, you'll find this interesting, when the whole thing came down a couple of weeks ago and they had the scuffle at the courthouse in Billings?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I recall.
unidentified		You got a call from a gentleman who claimed he was a Freeman, and he was arrested for not having a driver's license.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Right, we all know who he is.
unidentified		His first name is Steve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, no.
unidentified		I won't mention his name.
unidentified		His first name is Steve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Steve.
		Figures.
		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		So there he are.
		of Steve.
		I don't...
		A couple of people have left the compound slash farmhouse, whatever you want to call it.
		It's up to you.
		It doesn't look like compound to me.
		It looks like a series of farmhouses.
		They're calling it a compound, though.
		And I suppose you might do that and get away with it based on the number of arms they believe are in there.
		That's about the only way you can call that a compound.
		I just don't, number one, think it's going to end quickly.
		And number two, I'm worried that it is not going to end peacefully.
		The late signs are that the Freemen's condition for coming out is that they will be tried by their own common law justice system.
		Not ours, but their own system.
		That is the one they devised.
		Well, I guess we know how that verdict would turn out, eh?
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Artist Elizabeth in Vancouver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I have to say that I am completely fed up with Art Bell is the Antichrist stuff.
unidentified		And as of now, I want the real Antichrist to call in, identify himself, if he has any guts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And vindicate me.
unidentified		Yes, and take the pressure off Art.
		Whoever you are, and you know who you are.
		Yes.
		Anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe it serves his purpose at the moment to have me thought of as the one.
unidentified		Well, it must.
unidentified		I mean, that would be a really evil plot, wouldn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Anyway, I have two points.
		The Unabomber's manifesto is already being taught in college.
		You know, college is not like Sunday school where they make you believe something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somebody last week, Elizabeth, called and said if you could go 100 or 200 years into the future, would you find the Unabomber treated as a hero in the history books?
unidentified		No, because the only way we can survive is to have an alternative technology, which was already perfected by the 1970s.
		It just has not been put in place because we are clinging to this defective paradigm, which I talk about all the time, which I've been stalking since the 1980s myself.
		And it's really a shame that this brilliant, talented guy, and if I'd had his address, I would have written to him and asked him to join my project.
		It's too bad that he put his energies into blowing people up because you cannot get rid of a defective paradigm by blowing up the people who are enrolled in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he talked to his motivation, though, in doing what he did.
		And I think he destroyed any possibility of an insanity plea while doing so because he said, look here, the message would not have gone out.
		People certainly would not have read it had I not killed.
		And so that's why we killed.
		And is he wrong?
unidentified		Well, I think he's wrong.
unidentified		And obviously.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, but is he wrong about that?
unidentified		The message would not have gone out unless he killed?
		Yeah.
		He's absolutely wrong.
		I mean, the Art Bell show is getting the message out better than any other medium I can think of at the moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe so, but it's because he killed Elizabeth.
unidentified		That his message went out?
		Yep.
		But my point, Art, is that if the paradigm is defective, you cannot change the paradigm by killing the people who are enrolled in that paradigm.
		I mean, for example, the assumptions that are stated on this show all the time that human beings are destroying the planet, that science is evil, that technology is bad, that the world is overpopulated, none of those assumptions are true in the least.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know?
unidentified		Because technology is not necessarily bad.
		My best evidence is Sir Joseph Needham's 12-volume brilliant study of technology and science in ancient China.
		Ancient China, which has a completely different paradigm of nature and the environment than we have, developed a very sophisticated technology based on natural materials.
		For example, bamboo has the tensile strength of steel.
		We don't have to have this particular destructive paradigm.
		I mean, we're stuck because Jesus pulled up the fig tree twice.
		That's our problem.
		We're enrolled in a paradigm that is not from our own classical culture, which had a very good accommodation with nature.
		In our culture, four new inventions were introduced each century.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Elizabeth, I've got to stop.
unidentified		Conservative, conservatives?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I've got to stop.
		Conservatives, conservatives.
		Here we go.
		Good place, actually, to stop.
		Thank you very much.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Oh, I don't believe it.
unidentified		Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		This is Mike from Tampa, Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Mike.
unidentified		Oh, listen, you know, I want to ask you.
unidentified		You know, a subject we haven't come across in a long time was a good old alien autopsy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what?
		Yeah.
		Not one person has yet knocked a foolproof hole through it.
unidentified		Well, you might have just met one right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's hear it.
unidentified		Okay.
		Mr. Santilli did a real nice number on this one.
		Let's go to the film itself.
		Yes.
		If you noticed of all the cute little items that are on there, all the 1940 items, if you recall the clock, for example.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
unidentified		Okay.
		In 1940, 1950s, at that particular time, everything, and I mean everything, that includes the toilet paper, was military.
		The clock was civilian.
		It was not a military.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean it was a 12-hour clock.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, uh-huh.
unidentified		That's number one.
unidentified		Number two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's not proof, though.
unidentified		No.
		Number two, why don't you see any flashes of anybody taking photographs?
		Still photographs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is suggested that in the further episodes yet to come, you do.
unidentified		You do see flashes.
unidentified		You see someone taking photographs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you don't see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see flashes.
unidentified		Okay.
		All right, let's go to number three.
		I think this is how he did it.
		Mr. Santelli went to Hollywood and found an antique store.
		Found a working 1940, 1950 circuit reel-to-reel that actually worked.
		Off the wood film that we never used.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just one little problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This film that was used, according to a photographic expert that I had on the program who analyzed a frame of the film, said that it had to have been exposed within two or three years of its being purchased.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maximum.
unidentified		But also you had a guest on the air who said that it can also be frozen.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that implies a conspiracy that spans, you know, a lot of years.
unidentified		Well, if they want to test the chemical, if they want to test the film and the age of it, why didn't they test the labels that were on the can or the ink that was on the labels?
unidentified		That's a lot easier to test the age of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's going to be more testing ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, look.
unidentified		I could tell you that it wasn't an alien they did an autopsy on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How can you tell me that?
unidentified		I think he went to a medical center.
		He found some college boys who were studying some forensic medicine.
		And he said, hey, boys, would you like to make some money and pull off the greatest scam ever?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but see, you're just giving me, I think, here's how it could have been done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not giving me proof.
unidentified		Well, you know, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you don't have to, it doesn't matter.
unidentified		But what I'm saying is, this is if I was to pull this off myself, this is how I would pull it off.
		And it wouldn't take me much money to do it.
		I can get all the material.
		You can get all that material, Art, okay?
		You can find the people who will do it.
		Now, I can tell you this for a fact.
		This is what I believe firmly, okay, myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let us differentiate between what you're calling art.
		Let me tell you a fact, and then let me tell you what I believe is a fact.
		These are different.
unidentified		All right, what I believe is a fact.
unidentified		I correct myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quickly.
unidentified		You're going into the hour now, I expect you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I absolutely am, sir.
unidentified		Can I hold or?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you can hold.
unidentified		Okay, I'll hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we'll get back to you.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 8, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April
		8, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April 8, 1996.
		You're listening to Arc Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 8th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I am indeed here.
		Hello, everybody.
		Good to be here.
		All right, back now to my caller.
		You're back on the air, sir.
unidentified		How are you, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm fine.
unidentified		I should make an apology.
		I guess I should, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I do apologize.
		I should have said I firmly believe personally that I think Mr. Santelli pulled off a stunt for everyone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's entirely acceptable.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
unidentified		As we would say in Tampa, we think he's full of Kakala Torlo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know one.
unidentified		Speaking of Mr. Ray Santelli, wasn't he involved with a particular diary in the 1970s involving Hitler?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		might have been here i know that uh...
		Now, that I don't know.
		No, I'm not aware that was in his past, no.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
		Anyway, where were we?
		Getting back to the film.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		This is the way, if I was to do this, or if you were to do this, this is the way I would do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the best proof you could give us would be to duplicate it.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		This is how I would duplicate it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, why don't you do it?
unidentified		Why don't I do it?
		Sure.
		I don't have that kind of money.
		Ah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it would have taken a lot of money and planning from way back then.
unidentified		I'm sure he did a little research.
		He probably had a couple of grand to blow.
		And that's really, I think, all it would take, really.
		Look how much he made out of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think people like Stan Winston, who made, you know, did so many of the good things in Jurassic Park, said he couldn't duplicate it?
		I mean, if you could, I mean, just a commoner, and Stan Winston couldn't.
		How do you figure that?
unidentified		Well, he said that to you on the air, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He said that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, I'm beginning to think you didn't even see the alien autopsy.
unidentified		I saw the alien autopsy.
unidentified		I went to a UFO seminar that was here in Tampa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When Fox Network showed it, they had Stan Winston and others on.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's where Stan Winston said.
unidentified		I remember seeing that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you did.
unidentified		I remember hearing him say that.
unidentified		Oh, you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		But also, probably nine out of ten, you know, the way that they do their cute little editing, and probably they edit out maybe asking him if he thinks it's fake, and I'll bet you two to one he said, yeah.
unidentified		But, of course, we all say that for fact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, gee, if that was true, then, wouldn't you think after the program, Stan Winston would have gone to all the papers and said, they took me out of context.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't say any such thing?
unidentified		No, I don't think.
		He wouldn't?
		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He'd let a misstatement like that stand?
unidentified		Sure, why not?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, all right.
		Well, listen, I gotta go.
		That's a little hard to deal with.
unidentified		That's a little hard to deal with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's a facts from somebody in AT ⁇ T. That's cool.
		Art, I wonder what the Unabomber's remedy would be.
		A 10 by 12 cabin without running water and electricity.
		Hey, that's smart.
		Thought I'd give you a blast from the past.
		Hee hee hee ha.
		Down and out in the wonderful banana republic of the state of Louisiana.
		Signed Macon.
		Then it says recycled paper at the bottom.
		Didn't print recycled paper on this side.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, Art.
unidentified		I'd like to make a comment about the North-South Korea situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		You said earlier in, I think, the first half hour of the show that you were wondering if the American people would back that up or not.
		And I think it's pretty much a given that they won't.
		But a situation like that, I don't think they're going to have a chance to basically even take a poll because this is a lot different than Bosnia because North and South Korea, well, they really have real armies.
		They have armor.
		They have Air Force.
		It's a lot different than Bosnia.
		And I think the polls for Bosnia were 2-1 against or so are ballpark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so far, so good in Bosnia.
		But you see, if Korea develops into a, quote, situation, end quote, then it's going to be an immediate massive war.
		They've got well over a million soldiers ready to come across a DMZ.
		And sending hundreds of very heavily armed soldiers into the DMZ actually is an act of war.
unidentified		Right, it's a violation of the truce that they signed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It absolutely is, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So anything could happen over there.
unidentified		Right, we're not going to have a chance to take a poll should war break out there.
unidentified		There's going to be hundreds dead probably within the first hour, I would say, I would say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		Yes.
		What they would do, thank you very much for the call, is they would depend on the element of surprise.
		They would quickly take as much geography as they could.
		They would try a lightning move across the DMZ.
		And, you know, It could begin anyway.
		All it takes is one shot.
		One shot.
		The South Koreans are warning the North Koreans, any more armed people in the DMZ, and they will shoot them.
		Shoot them.
		So, one shot, and it's rock and roll time.
		This is very serious.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
		Gary from Santa Rosa.
		How are you doing tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		KSRO.
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Question about what would happen after the disaster and how technology would advance?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let us say the Unabomber and others who believe, as he believes, with less violence in trying to get the message across are correct.
		Let's say that the technological civilization crashes and burns.
		No doubt, many would die.
		Something awful would happen.
		I believe it may occur.
		But then what?
		What would rise from the ashes?
unidentified		Well, there's sort of two paths I see here.
unidentified		One is the idea that, oh, technology caused this, so let's not have any technology beyond a certain sort of rustic point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there would be almost a religious or moral, sort of like the Chinese revolution against anything academic?
unidentified		Absolutely.
		It wouldn't be a question of suppressing a Galileo or a Buckminster Fuller or a Francis Bacon.
		People like that just simply wouldn't be allowed to exist.
		There'd be a sort of like a steady state where, yeah, we've got just enough.
		We're conceiving about as often as we're dying and we're producing enough of this and that.
		So that would be it.
		I mean, it would be the technological inquisition would be on every corner.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think people would be out trying to string up Bill Gates if he lived through it all?
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
		Oh, absolutely.
		They'd be after him.
		Or people could say, well, let's look at the technology.
		Technology is nothing but applied science.
		The universe is in a broad way of looking at it.
		It's technology.
		Our bodies are automation.
		Are any of us thinking about what we're going to do with what we ate for breakfast?
		No.
		It's automated.
		The question is, the fault does not lie in the stars.
		It lies in ourselves.
		How can we apply technology in a way that empowers people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But we never want to believe that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if there is a catastrophe, I would think technology would be the fall guy.
unidentified		Well, sure.
		Well, why not go after the scientists?
		They speak a different language.
		They look weird.
		Some of them even live in the woods, and even though they don't build bombs, well, maybe they could.
		They're out there living in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They even cover their foul little white-coated pockets with pen protectors and look different than the rest of us.
unidentified		Yeah, absolutely.
		As I say, they speak a different language that not many people understand.
		Yeah, so whether it's calculus or scientific jargon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		There could be exactly that.
		A counter-revolution, I guess it really would be.
		If you consider that technology is now a revolution, it would be a big counter-revolution.
		And of course, Mao promoted that in China, and they literally hung people who wore glasses, figuring they were the readers.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Ert.
unidentified		This is Tom from Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Tom.
unidentified		Yeah, I would like to talk to you about two things tonight.
		I was wondering, is there any way you can get Mike Scallion to come on and talk to you over the air or anything like that?
		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But we wait until there's a specific reason.
		In other words, until something has changed.
		There's not much point in having him back to say essentially what he did before.
		If something new happens, you bet.
unidentified		Okay.
		And the second thing, I don't know if you remember, but there was a 15-year-old that called about a month ago.
		And I'd like to comment on what he was saying that younger people like to listen to your show a lot.
		Everyone I've talked to, I'm 19, and everyone I've talked to loves your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
unidentified		I'd like to say how great of a show you have.
unidentified		Keep up the good work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Take care.
		It is true.
		We have a gigantic younger listening audience.
		I'm very well aware of it and happy about it.
		And I think, again, it has to do with the subject material, which we don't limit to politics.
		As a matter of fact, there's less and less reason like leads to talk about politics unless you can get yourself wrapped up in the Dole Clinton race.
		Let's see, what are the latest polls?
		They're showing Dole some, I forget how far behind, way behind.
		It was like, well, I don't want to quote it and be wrong.
		There was one interesting political kind of thing over the weekend.
		Elizabeth Drew, author of a new book called Showdown the Struggle Between the Gingrich Congress and the Clinton White House, says the Republican Congress, despite the fact that it did not get all of its contract with America provisions through and Gingrich have won because the very philosophy of government has been changed permanently.
		In other words, it will be a very long time before any president dares submit another unbalanced budget.
		And that's thanks to Newt Gingrich and company.
		And you will recall that our guy, our Prez, submitted first an unbalanced budget.
		In fact, it was going to be unbalanced far as the eye could see, then 10 years, then 7 years.
		Who do you think did that?
		It was indeed Newt Gingrich, wasn't it?
		Newt Gingrich now is very upset with Clinton, so much so that it was reported that Newt Gingrich no longer wants to be in his actual physical presence.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello?
unidentified		Radio, radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Radio, radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Magic words.
unidentified		First time call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where from?
unidentified		Chet in Boulder, Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		People's Republic of Boulder.
		Uh-huh.
		And I wasn't sure to call from west of the Rockies or east of the Rockies since the west side of town goes uphill to the Continental Divide and the east side of town goes flat all the way to the Appalachians.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We know that.
		We have included Colorado as west of the Rockies just for general principles.
		It's not exactly the Rockies as a breakoff point anymore.
		People will have to use whichever number works.
unidentified		Sounds good to me.
		I first would like to compliment you on your show.
		I discovered your show when I went to work off and on at KHOW in Denver for one of our hosts and have become a devotee, which keeps me awake all night, every night.
		I think you're doing a magnificent job of combining technology that you've been speaking about tonight with the family feeling of the global village.
		When you talk about your cats and your bent thumb and your scratches, we feel like we're in your home, and yet we have this incredible technology that's taking us all around the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is amazing, isn't it?
unidentified		I think this is the future.
unidentified		I feel perfectly comfortable with it, and I think you're breaking all the rules just perfectly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		The second thing is, I am getting my first cat in five years tomorrow since my divorce, which is going to keep me company because I used to work at a zoo and worked with snow leopards and tigers and elephants.
unidentified		And that was a job I thought you would have enjoyed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now one thing about your cat?
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I won't max out your credit cards.
unidentified		That's right.
		That's a whole long other story.
		The real reason I called was the Unibomber.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Are you familiar with the Earth-First people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed, there is a loose connection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Unibomber is said to have gone to their meetings, or at least one.
unidentified		We have here in the People's Republic of Boulder, you know, we're very ecologically concerned.
		And I myself am a leftist liberal, although, is it Charles in California?
		Yes.
		Makes me look like Attila the Hun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you don't want to associate yourself with his form of liberalism?
unidentified		Not quite that far off the deep end.
		However, in Boulder, we are, you know, there are a lot of people concerned with animal rights and the ecology, etc.
		But the Earth-First People, I have seen a booklet that they put out that showed with diagrams how to make a landmine with a shotgun shell for dirt bikes, motorcycles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How to spike a tree.
unidentified		You bury a shotgun shell in the tree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's not.
unidentified		Okay, I won't.
unidentified		It's pretty obvious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But let's not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let it be obvious.
unidentified		It's designed to maim and cripple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure it would.
unidentified		For the Earth-First people to distance themselves from the Unabomber the way they have, they must think he must be even farther off the deep end than they are because they're a real radical bunch of, well, loonies to me.
unidentified		And also, do you realize that Timothy McVeigh's trial starts here today in Denver?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, is that today?
unidentified		That's 15 miles down the road, yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be something.
unidentified		In just a few hours, they've got all the barricades up.
		The TV people have arrived.
		The hotels are full.
		It's turning into a show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Clearly, the Unabomber is the left's version of McVeigh on the right.
unidentified		Exactly.
		And it's interesting, we have them both going on at the same time.
		This is publicity that we would just as soon not get.
		We like the Rockies, we like the Broncos.
		But the McVeigh trial, we really didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, if you think you've got it bad, look at Montana.
unidentified		I love the things you read earlier, the road signs.
		That's great.
		Poor Montana.
		would kill to scam one of your books for our radio station to pass around all right is it for sale anywhere or do i have to i i i Well, of course you can do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I could see what I could do for you with my publisher.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all I could suggest.
unidentified		There is a coterie of us at the station who are spreading the word, the Arkbell word, spreading the gospel to all our daytime hosts, saying, listen to this guy.
		Listen to this guy.
		This is a whole different kind of talk radio, which it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is that.
		And I'll see what I can do for you.
		Thank you very, very much for the call.
		And I will see.
		I'll see what I can do for you.
		My book.
		You know, I've really got to organize myself.
		My book, my book, my book.
		If you ought to see the pile, I've got about 2,000 pieces of paper in front of me.
		You can actually buy my book on the internet now.
		On my web page.
		There's a way you can take a jump from my web page to my book page or my book part of my web page or I don't exactly know how it works, but you can go up there and actually buy the book on the web page.
		Isn't that wild?
		That really is pretty cool.
		First time call our line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yes.
		I've been calling in regards to Friday's last Friday show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Turn your radio off, sir.
		That's number one.
		Otherwise, you can sound very confused.
unidentified		Sorry about that.
		Yeah, first I wanted to just say my wife and I, we are new listeners to your show.
		And we're night owls and, well, we're devoted listeners now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're glad to have you.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		And Friday's show, you were talking about remote control.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remote viewing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and then the possibility of remote viewing escalating into remote control, being able to control somebody else's thinking or decision process.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Have you ever viewed or read Robert A. Monroe's book, Journeys Out of the Body?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've done better than that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've interviewed Robert Monroe.
unidentified		Yes, in his book, Journeys Out of the Body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know he's passed on?
unidentified		Oh, he did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you didn't know.
		I'm sorry.
		You didn't know?
		Yes, he's passed on.
unidentified		Oh.
unidentified		Well, in his book, he described pinching somebody during an astral projection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And leaving a mark.
		Mm-hmm.
		And wouldn't that be considered some kind of remote control?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it might be considered some proof of astral projection.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not remote control.
		Remote control means my sitting here and affecting you to make a certain decision or take a certain action mentally.
		Mind control.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What you're talking about is proof of um being able to travel out of the body and then return and having a physical occurrence or some physical proof that something happened to you while you were out there.
unidentified		Okay, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, where are you?
unidentified		I'm coming from Lincoln, Nebraska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am going to make you go to the kitchen in about ten minutes.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right?
		Uh, so pink pretzels there in Lincoln, Nebraska.
		You want pretzels.
		You want a glass of milk?
		You want pretzels?
		Well, then you want them now.
		And if you can't find pretzels, then you want potato chips with a glass of milk.
		I'm telling you, you want it.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey.
unidentified		I got through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it seems so.
unidentified		This is our bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am calling from Burton, Michigan.
		all right uh...
		i'm kind of off the subject of what you're going on today but uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Talk about anything you want.
unidentified		I'm a fairly new listener.
		I just started listening to you the past couple weeks, and I really enjoy your show.
		I listen to it every day I go to work.
		Thank you.
		I was curious because I heard you mention HARP a couple times.
		What is HARP?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is a special government project underway in Alaska to actually heat the ionosphere with two stated goals.
		To improve communications, ha ha ha, and to map underground bunkers and tunnels.
		That's HAARP.
unidentified		okay i'm kind of curious about that uh...
unidentified		what do they have to do with uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, do you want to hold on during the break?
unidentified		Sure, if I can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you can.
unidentified		Stay right there.
		And maybe tell you about Phaedra.
		And how she gave me life.
		And how she made it in.
		Some velvet mornin'when I'm streamed.
		Flowers growing on our hills.
		Dragonflies and daffodils.
		Learn from...
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired April 8th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Art, remember the other night you asked something like, what would you do if a spaceship landed and someone came out and said, take us to your leader?
		How would we respond?
		In other words, who would they be taken to?
		Well, for me, I'd say it's your lucky day, guys.
		I was just out for a walk.
		And what can I help you with?
		I am a leader.
		However, I've had a little trouble keeping things together here on Earth.
		Could you help me out?
		Jerry in Hawaii.
		Oh, Jerry.
		It's people like you that are going to do us in.
		You're back on the air again.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		What I was going to ask was, like I said, I listen to you when I go to work.
		Right.
		And I'm in and out of my car, you know, periodically.
		And I've only caught parts of your conversations with people talking about the photographs of the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I was wondering what HAARP had to do with that, because I've heard references made to HARP.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It has nothing to do with it.
unidentified		It has nothing to do with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, sir.
unidentified		Okay, and the photographs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I don't have a computer, and I was wondering how I can probably get copies of those photographs where I might be able to look for them or find them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they can be obtained from NASA, but you need the particular frames to request.
		We publish them in the newsletter, so you can get them there.
		Other than that, I don't have much to suggest to you.
		They are up on my webpage, but you don't have a computer.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's about all I can do.
unidentified		It just got my curiosity up when you were speaking about this, and I keep looking up at the moon and I was kind of wondering, you know, what's up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, good.
		Keep wondering.
		And somehow or another, put your hands on the photographs.
unidentified		I was going to try to do that because I've seen things in the sky once before, quite a few years ago, but it just kind of got my curiosity up.
unidentified		And then one day I just turned on your radio station.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there we were.
unidentified		And there you were.
unidentified		You were talking about these photographs of the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wish there was more I could do to help you, sir.
		I appreciate your call, but that's about all we can do.
		I don't know how else to get them out there.
		They're up on the webpage, so if you have a friend with a computer, I suggest you get to that friend.
		My Web address, and the web, by the way, is up.
		Somebody sent me a fax and said the web was down.
		It's not down.
		It's up.
		And my web address is www.artbell, A-R-T-B-E-L-L, no space, dot com.
		That's www.artbell.com.
		Go up there and take a look.
		Dear Art, for all their objections about technology and big government, don't the Unabomber and the Freeman sort of make the case for technology and big government?
		Without them, we would not be able to find and convict nuts like these.
		Lynn in North Hollywood, listening to KABC.
		Art, if North Korea invades South Korea, the South is going to be defeated.
		Why?
		Because Bill Clinton does not trust his battlefield commanders.
		North Korean and Chinese battle tactics have always been to secretly amass overwhelming forces near the borders of their enemies and then strike without warning, usually on a Korean or Chinese holiday.
		Since the 1950s, the North Koreans have built thousands of miles of underground tunnels near the DMZ.
		They're stocked with tanks, artillery, and troops.
		These underground bases are totally equipped with electricity, kitchens, barracks, and all the amenities of home.
		There may be as many as a million North Korean soldiers located in these underground bunkers and tunnels at any one time.
		All of that is true.
		Watch Korea carefully.
		Either this is a bluff, or and even if it is a bluff, if North Korea sends more armed soldiers into the DMZ, it is my feeling that hostilities are going to resume because South Korea is saying we will shoot them.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Joe in Minneapolis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Joe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and i'm wondering if you believe in evolution and a progress of technology do i believe in evolution in the progress No question about that.
unidentified		And if you believe in evolution, what if the supposed aliens ain't aliens, but time travelers?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could be.
		I don't rule that out.
		Do I believe in evolution?
		Yes, I do.
		Do I believe the hand of God may be the creative force behind evolution?
		Yes, I do.
		So do I have a great internal conflict, as so many people do, between creation and evolution?
		No, I don't.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Bill, Sam.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I beg your pardon?
unidentified		Mr. Bell?
		Yes.
		Yes.
		I'm calling from Portland, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Your international line didn't work, so I fly all the way from Japan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can call when you get back in Japan.
unidentified		I have a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		The other night, you mentioned you were in Hokinawa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		You got an interview by Japanese Broadcasting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I worked for Ryukyu Hoso.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ryukyu Hoso, which I had a Japanese boss, but it was a Japanese company broadcasting in English KSBK way back when.
unidentified		I see.
unidentified		And you're working for U.S. Air Force in Okinawa, too, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I was in the Air Force on Okinawa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then when I got out of the Air Force, I liked Okinawa so much that I got an airplane and went back.
unidentified		Okay, one day you said on the air, you got an interview by a reporter about existence of ethnic warhead in Okinawa Bay.
unidentified		Well, you tried to decline, but you saw the B-52 descending over reporters' shoulder.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
		Yes, yes, indeed.
		Almost every night on Okinawan television, they would have a thank you for the call.
		They would have a military spokesman who would completely deny the fact that there were B-52s on Okinawa.
		And they would actually be interviewing the base PR guy, who, of course, was required to deny this.
		And the camera would pan up, and here comes this screeching B-52 rattling the camera and taking off above this guy's head.
		It made for quite a sight on Okinawan television, and it made the PR guy look, of course, ridiculous.
		With regard to nuclear stockpiles, you can bet they're on Okinawa.
		You can bet they are there.
		You can bet a lot of things that you think might not be, in fact, are.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, this is Dee in the Red Desert, and I wanted to talk about the Unit Bombers Manifesto.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Well, there are a lot of people out here that cannot afford such things as computers.
		And even some of them, if they have them, don't know how to use them.
		Right.
		Particularly because they've never had the opportunity.
		And, you know, I can see those people feeling that technology is a threat.
		And then there's the other side of the coin, too.
		Even people who use technology have some reservations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm one of them.
unidentified		Well, not only that, but they have reservations because, number one, technology can be so easily abused, and it is some of the time.
unidentified		But it sometimes seems so vast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
unidentified		You'll find some of the things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		I mean, look, take this incredible technology that we have developed called Vidian, you know, the two-way phone.
		Well, on the one side, what a wonderful way for moms to keep in touch with their sons or daughters with a video telephone, right?
		From anywhere in the world to anywhere in the world over a regular phone line.
		That's the plus side.
		But a negative side might be, consider what it would do for the 900 sex lines.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		So we take a step forward technologically and possibly at times a step in reverse socially.
		It's true.
unidentified		Well, the thing like, you know, my husband and I, we live out here in the desert because we like to live out here in the desert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Same reason I'm here.
unidentified		And, you know, you know, we've visited cities since we've been out here and you feel like you're just piled on top of.
		And I can understand someone withdrawing from society and like with myself at times, I have to sit back and really think about, well, when the government does something or people as a society do something, I have to sit back and think, well, how does this affect me?
		How do I feel about it?
		Because there are times when I don't want to have anything to do with people, and I don't want to have anything to do with the government.
		And I don't want the government coming in here and saying, you do this and you do that and you live like this and you go here and you go there and you don't go here.
		I don't, to me, I don't feel free.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So maybe you're the free woman of the desert.
unidentified		Well, and so Mr. Miss, but I think a lot of people at times feel that way.
		We work so hard to build a life.
		We go to school.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I know.
unidentified		We go to college.
		And other people go to the military.
		and we do things in life that we have to do to advance ourselves for the future.
		But sometimes when we get there, it's like...
		Why did we come here?
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you're absolutely right.
		And what I said, I sort of stand by.
		And that is that technology makes it possible for us to not interact or to have the choice to not interact with people one-to-one, face-to-face.
		There was a time in this country where if you wanted the latest rumor, you had to go to the barbershop.
		At the very least, you had to hang over your fence and talk to your next-door neighbor.
		Now, the latest news, the latest rumors, the latest everything can come to you at the speed of light right into your own home in one of zillions of ways.
		Interactive cable, computers, you name it, and the information is just like that, if you want it.
		And it enables you to do everything you want without moving, without interacting socially.
		So think about that a little bit.
		It's true.
		First-time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Oh, my goodness.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Greets, 99th.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very well, thank you.
unidentified		I've got a couple of things to put to you tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're a first-time caller, sir?
unidentified		No, I'm not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you're not allowed to use this line, I'm afraid.
unidentified		Now, wait, wait, wait.
unidentified		Before you cut up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Call toll-free, 1-800-618-8255.
		Now, you just hit a bunch of touchstones, and I can't let you do that.
		Well, now he hung up.
		You can't hit touchstones when you're on the air.
		Not allowed.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hey, R., this is the Italian stallion.
		Long time no hear from you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, a long time no hear from you, actually.
unidentified		Alrighty, I was going to tell you, you know, this technology thing and all that.
		I think what's really ruining, I think at the acceleration where, you know, the technology seems like it's like a quakening.
		It's accelerating faster and faster.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And the amount of technology being presented to us, eventually I don't think we'll be able to accept.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, at some point, there may be trouble in River City.
		and the question is if there is some sort of revolution anti-technological revolution or catastrophe that occurs what do you think will come out on the other end i'd really think on the other hand There will be survivors of whatever occurs.
		And so what kind of system, what kind of government, what kind of structure, social or economic, will we have on the other side?
unidentified		I believe when that happens, I believe that's going to be the thousand-year piece that Nasr Damas talked about.
		Because computers, as it is, what scares me about computers, and my aim at computers, is that the way we can, there's thefts and our ICBMs and billions of dollars are being stolen through computers.
		And computers, I think, are a disaster.
		I really, I hate computers.
		I hate people that use them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		I really believe that computers are disasters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
unidentified		Because of the way they're all tied into the whole world and how people get on the Internet.
unidentified		And now you're seeing kids get into this pornography.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think the Internet is evil?
unidentified		Yes, I believe it's evil in its own way, yes.
unidentified		But other than that, you have a good one, Art, and it's good talking to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, take care.
		There.
		Who does that sound like?
		Computers are evil.
		The Internet is evil.
		Who's to say?
		Maybe, huh?
		Have you thought about it very much?
		Have you read that manifesto of the Unobomber?
		Or even parts of it?
		It is without a doubt thought-provoking.
		I don't think you can read it without sitting down to do some serious questioning, and that's not to make a hero out of somebody you killed.
		It's just to consider academically the statements made.
		And a lot of people, even over the weekend, very thoughtful people, George Will and others, suggested Jerry Spence, others who looked at this and talked about it, suggested these are things that many Americans may agree with, this attack on technology
		First time caller line, you're on the era.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Art, how are you doing?
unidentified		This is Derek in Fremont.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Derek.
unidentified		Oh, let's change the subject just a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whatever you like.
unidentified		You know how you've been to the San Francisco Bay Area, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course.
unidentified		And you know how they refer to San Francisco as the city?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Well, you know, we ought to start referring to Earth as the planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is the planet.
unidentified		Well, I know, but I mean, instead of just, you know, the shuttle's coming back to Earth, the shuttle's coming back to the planet.
		Oh, I see.
		Doesn't that have a more fresh ring to it, let's say?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know what they're referring to, whichever word they use.
unidentified		Well, you know, instead of these proper names, let's go to the more definitive or descriptive names.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the shuttle has decided to return to the third planet from the sun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How about that?
unidentified		Well, just the planet.
unidentified		I mean, what other planet are we referring to?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's true.
unidentified		All right, all right.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		You said that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		All right.
		I suppose we could put it that way.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, you were talking Friday with Sally, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I was wondering, I believe we're spending too much money.
unidentified		And the way the system is in those other countries, you were saying about them being in cardboard shacks, this, that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I said, if you want to see real poverty, look outside the U.S., profound poverty in a way that we don't begin to understand it here, yes.
unidentified		Well, what I was going to suggest, over there, when you go to court and they find you guilty and you get a death penalty like China and some of the other countries, they take you out in the bath and they shoot you in the back of the head.
unidentified		And that is the death penalty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
unidentified		In this country here, you go get three meals a day, the best medical insurance you can get, best libraries, everything.
		So those people, what little freedom they got, they know what freedom is.
		And they don't want to lose it by going to their prison.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, isn't there a song you don't know what you got till it's gone?
unidentified		Right.
		So like I suggest, we got too good over here.
		That's why people don't mind going to prison.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's that you don't know what you got when you got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you've never had an example of what it's really like to be without.
unidentified		And I don't think a guy should get like $30,000 a game for sitting when he doesn't stand up for the national anthem.
unidentified		And nobody, I think, should make more than the president makes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what if they do more than the president does?
		And in today's world, that's not too hard to imagine, sir.
		We've got a break.
		And this is a good time to do it.
		There's a lot of people out there who do more than Mr. Clinton does.
unidentified		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 8, 1996.
		I was walking in your shoes, I couldn't wear it now.
		While you and your friends are worrying about me, I'm feeling lots of fun.
		Down flowers on the wall.
		That don't bother me at all.
		Playing solitaire till dawn with the deck of 51.
		Smoking cigarettes and watching captain bangaroo.
		Now don't tell me I've nothing to do.
		Last night I spent every time the town.
		As long as I can dream, it's hard to spark the swingers down.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired April 8th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		This is Larry from Bremerton.
unidentified		I'm a first-time caller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Larry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's on your mind?
unidentified		Well, first, Gatfrey, I got an earful, so I'll try to cover basics as much as I can without you cutting me off here.
		But first, I'm skeptical about the aliens.
		Why?
		Well, one thing, it seems to me that they'd be a small flock.
		Otherwise, everybody in the world would be seeing quite a few of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if they were a flock, they'd be birds.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		But also, they wouldn't be the same size as us, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, that's right.
		You ought to see some of the birds we've got out here.
		They could be aliens.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Okay, and my point is there, why don't we have a spacecraft as big as the Earth hovering every once in a while, or maybe as small as an atom flying through our ears telling us what to do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean you don't?
		All right, thank you very much for the call.
		Why don't we have a spacecraft as large as the Earth, I think, he said, or one as small as something that would fly in your ear and tell you what to do?
		Well, I don't know about the first, but maybe we already do have the second.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the RLO.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Art Bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's me.
unidentified		Oh, I'm getting a delayed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't worry about it.
		Turn your radio off.
		That will help you immensely.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Kingdom City, Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kingdom City, Missouri.
		Yeah.
		I was going to just guess the next call was going to come from Kingdom City.
unidentified		Oh, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm kidding.
		Welcome to the show.
		What's up?
unidentified		Are we live?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I don't know about your condition.
unidentified		No, I mean, what's your time out there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not the same as your time there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's, let's see, 3.09 and 35 seconds.
unidentified		Okay, and it's Tuesday morning, the 9th?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's Thursday here.
unidentified		Thursday?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thursday here in Nevada.
unidentified		Are you pulling my leg?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, good.
		I have some questions about, first of all, a caller here, well, on my radio, just earlier asked about HAARP.
		Yes.
		Is that an acronym?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
unidentified		And can you tell me what it stands for?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		high altitude oral so uh...
		overall uh...
		it's teaching no No, I can't recall exactly what it is, and I should be able to.
		It's to heat the ionosphere.
unidentified		High-altitude radian high-altitude anyway project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Auroral research project, that might be it.
unidentified		Research.
		High altitude research project.
		Okay.
		And it's to heat the ionosphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And it's the federal government project?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
unidentified		And why do they want to heat the ionosphere?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Want to just blow a hole in it, see what will happen.
unidentified		Isn't that kind of speculative?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We don't really know what will happen.
unidentified		They're going to just do this on a small scale?
unidentified		Have they done it in any kind of a simulated situation?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They've done it on a very small scale.
		The scale is going to get much larger.
		And they're going to eventually be running power levels approaching 100 billion watts.
		And that's when they think that things like the weather will be affected.
		Human beings may be affected.
		That sort of thing.
unidentified		That's kind of...
		Yeah.
		What would be the motive?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		well they have stated motives uh...
		of improving uh...
		modes of communication possibly milk military are mapping underground tunnels and bunkers how could they map emperor But remember, to get under the Earth, it's got to first go through you.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay?
unidentified		Yeah, oh, yeah, right, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		I hope that helps.
		Hey, by the way, do you remember we talked about somebody at the end of the show on this last week called about a two-headed girl?
		There is a two-headed girl.
		She is six.
		They are six years old.
		They are co-joined twins.
		Siamese twins, they don't like that expression.
		They are co-joined.
		And I've got a picture of them here.
		There are indeed two heads.
		Two heads?
		Thinking, talking, functional, active, healthy six-year-olds.
		They share one rib cage, three lungs, two hearts, one liver, two gallbladders, two stomachs, one large intestine, one small intestine, two left kidneys, one right kidney, one pelvis, one pair of ovaries, one uterus, one vagina.
		God, that's incredible.
		and they are normal, otherwise healthy six-year-olds.
		These are...
		Absolutely incredible.
		And so from the neck up and some of the body, they share what looks like two legs, two arms.
		So they walk normally.
		And the arms function normally.
		Each twin apparently able to manipulate one arm, according to the picture I've got here.
		Quite amazing.
		Absolutely amazing.
		God, I would love to interview them.
		But I would imagine their parents would not go for such a thing, although they have allowed magazines to come in now and do stories on these girls.
		Two-headed girl.
		That's really amazing.
		really really amazing and true Thank you.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Kate Good Lester in California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		About this Unibomber Manifesto?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		You know, I think some of your fashion college had it right because technology is value neutral.
		I mean, until we touch it, it's like a gun.
		It's just sitting there, you know, that's what the gun control is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it may be intrinsically value negative as well.
unidentified		Well, yeah, but you know, that's the ambiguity that we have to accept with life, that not everything isn't just good or bad.
		It's a little bit of both, almost all the time.
		You know, we like to put things in little categories, but sometimes it doesn't work that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I well understand the pluses of technology.
		I utilize them here, as you know.
		But I also am Mindful of the negative side.
		I really am mindful of it, and I think it might be successfully argued that for every step we take forward technologically, we take a bit of a step backward socially.
		Because, oh no, I think there's a good argument there because even though we've got more information, we now have the ability never to leave home to get it.
		I'm a classic example of that.
		And we have less of a reason to socialize or interact with each other than ever before.
		And every time we take another step forward, we slip back a little socially.
unidentified		Yeah, but what you're insinuating is that the technology is what has control, and that's not true.
		You choose to stay home.
		You could get in your car and go to your neighbor's house anytime you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but it makes that choice possible where it did not before.
unidentified		Yes, but the control is still yours.
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		You know, and I think that's one of the main things that I hear when I heard little snippets out of his manifesto.
unidentified		He definitely sounds like somebody who feels out of control.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But there was a day when you could go down to your local barbershop, or for you, beauty parlor, whatever, and you could get the latest news, rumors, and dirt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Today, you can sit home and do that.
unidentified		If you want to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just an example.
unidentified		If you want to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, do people generally take the easy path or the hard path?
		Which path is more likely?
unidentified		Well, the easy one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I rest my case.
unidentified		I rest my case.
		You're so smart.
		I like meathead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, meathead.
		That's right.
		Meat.
		They're meat.
		Nothing but meat.
		Some of you who joined the show later won't know what she was speaking about.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		It's John and Resita.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, John.
unidentified		And I wonder if you got my letter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I get a lot of letters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was it about?
unidentified		Well, it's just a little diagram.
		You'll probably recognize it when you see it.
		Anyways, I want to talk about the Billings report.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Billings Report?
unidentified		I think that was the name of it, about the UFO guidelines from the late 50s or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what you're talking about.
unidentified		No, the statement says they should keep it under wraps.
unidentified		What was the name of that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean that civilization would be destroyed by knowledge of a superior alien race?
unidentified		Yeah, well, I just want to say, first of all, things almost 40 years old.
		Things have changed a little bit.
		Not only would a flying self-tarter have to land, CNN would have to cover it in full, and, you know, there'd have to be a lot of coverage for people to believe it as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's probably true.
		And even then, look, sir, CNN, well, it wasn't around then.
		All the networks covered man's going to the moon.
		You remember that?
unidentified		Well, I didn't show it all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And a lot of people don't for a second believe it.
unidentified		Anyways, I appreciate that.
unidentified		I just wanted to say hi, and thanks again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		A lot of people don't believe we ever went to the moon.
		So there you are.
		It's really neat seeing Bruce of the IRC chat channel, who apparently got himself a two-way video.
		This hour, for the remainder of this hour, I'm going to leave the two-way video system up.
		Bruce looks like a pretty hefty dude, actually.
		And I'll tell you how good it is, Bruce.
		I can see that you're wearing a t-shirt from the book signing.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning to you.
unidentified		Rick Meister Gerhardt, conservative in California.
		I think that one of the most crucial and one of the most under-reported things that happened this past week has been the offing of Ron Brown.
		I really do believe that since this man was in some kind of deep doo-doo to the point of which a special prosecutor had been appointed to look into his misdeeds, he was a bona fide embarrassment to the Clintonistas.
		And another very mysterious fact, which has also been underreported, is that his law partner...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think that the Clintons had him knocked off?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that a question?
unidentified		Yes.
		And his law partner was murdered in South Africa on the same day.
		Another very underreported thing.
		And now this guy who has the first story was that he was the air traffic controller, and the second story was that he was in charge of the maintenance of the radio navigation equipment.
		He has committed suicide.
		And at first we heard that there were black boxes found, and then we found out, no, there was no black box found.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I never heard that there was any black box found.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the very get-go, they said this version of the 737 does, a military version does not carry a black box.
unidentified		Well, see, that's nonsense because every 737 that leaves the Boeing factory, no matter where it's destined for, military, civil, whatever, has black boxes put in it before it goes out the door.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe in some military models they took it out.
unidentified		Well, this is beginning to stink.
unidentified		I mean, this is beginning to smell like Vince Foster, who the Clinton East has also had knocked off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, do you have any proof?
unidentified		Well, let's just say that when somebody shoots himself in the mouth with a pistol, the gun not only does not remain in the hand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, now we're back talking about Vince Foster.
		I'm talking about Ron Brown?
		Yeah.
unidentified		Well, the suicide of the guy in Yugoslavia.
unidentified		not proof a uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you make an allegation of murder, particularly against the president, which is what you're doing.
unidentified		That's right.
unidentified		That's what I'm doing, and I'm proud to be doing it on your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can do it, but it doesn't mean anything if you don't have any proof.
unidentified		Well, I think we need to see proof that this is all an accident.
unidentified		That's what I think we need to see proof of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, people are not going to prove that it was just an accident.
		The weather was bad.
		The turn was wrong.
		I think the burden of proof is on those making an allegation of a crime, namely you.
unidentified		Well, that's kind of what Louis Farrakhan says when he's asked about the burden of proof over the murder of Malcolm X. Now, we know what he's doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In that case, he's right.
		If you make an allegation of murder against Farrakhan or anybody else, the burden of proof is on the people making the allegation.
		For example, when the state makes an allegation, they are required, through science, through investigative techniques, to go into court and, with a prosecutor, convince a jury that somebody is guilty.
		And so, sir, the burden of truth, truth, yeah, truth and proof remains squarely on your shoulders, and you offered up zip.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello?
		Hello.
		Hey, is this our bill?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
unidentified		Hey, how are you doing?
		My name's Chris.
		I'm calling from Mesa, Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I caught your show yesterday, Sunday, I guess.
unidentified		it was a re-tape, you were talking about the Remember talking about that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Genetic research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I do.
unidentified		About paranoid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They went on Larry King, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, that one.
unidentified		Do you think maybe Unabomber was talking about that, about dripping the personalities out and becoming a cognitive system?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he could have been.
unidentified		That's just something that kind of caught my mind when you were reading parts of that motivation.
		Just thought I'd bring that to your attention.
		I got two questions for you, by the way.
		Sure, far away.
		What's your email address?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's simple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's artbell at AOL.com.
unidentified		Okay, and second, earlier today somebody was touching tones on the, or sending touch tones.
		Yep.
		And you said that's against the rules?
		Yep.
		Is that just irritating, or is there a reason why I'm not?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are a number of reasons.
		Yes, it is very irritating, number one.
		Number two, there are radio stations who run automation gear by touch tones, and so we don't want to be firing that off.
		Oh, well, that makes sense.
		So I just, you know, I've got a button here.
		I just erase it.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Along with the person.
unidentified		That makes sense.
unidentified		Anyways, I don't want to take up too much time because, well, I'm working.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		Well, thank you very much for the call, and take care.
		Appreciate it.
		Always glad to let people know what the real story is.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Art, this is Fred calling from the mighty KOMO in Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Fred.
unidentified		And about that caller who said that Ron Brown was murdered by the president.
		That's preposterous.
		Clinton had a clear alibi when that happened.
		Apparently, shortly before the plane went down, he went to McDonald's and was seen shipping golf balls outside the White House shortly thereafter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		So it couldn't have been the president.
		Obviously, though, he meant had it ordered, had it done.
		You know, I don't like this president, but I'm really tiring of this kind of thing.
unidentified		That was ridiculous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		And regarding aliens perhaps already being here on this planet?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Ross Perot.
		Now, can I say something here?
		Can I get a word in, Larry?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty good.
unidentified		I think he's an alien.
		Anyway, hey, I love your show.
		Thank you.
		Just bought the book, The Art of Talk.
		Read it, liked it, and keep up the good work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, my friend.
		Take care.
		Well, it was a good, bluntly honest book.
		The repercussions for me for writing that book are going to continue forever.
		Tell you right now.
		So many people are so unhappy with me.
		But let me give you a piece of advice.
		They say that everybody's got one good book in them.
		Isn't that what they say, the old expression?
		Well, that was my one good book.
		But if you ever get a chance to write yours, do yourself a favor.
		And I went into a great quandary about my book.
		How should I write it?
		Should I tell the truth or should I sort of gloss over some things, let's put it that way.
		And I decided I was going to tell the truth, nothing but the truth.
		And some people totally, utterly freaked out.
		You know, I'm not an angel.
		I wrote the truth.
		And as a matter of fact, one lady, I think I told you this last week, one lady sent my book back to me.
unidentified		And she said, this would never stay on a Christian's coffee table.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's the only one that anybody ever sent back.
		And then somebody said, why don't you donate it to the local public library?
		And I think that's exactly what I'm going to do.
		I'm going to donate it to the Prump Library.
		That's what, as a matter of fact, maybe we'll get that done in the next couple of days.
		Get it over there to the library.
		But she did send it back.
		Now, look, if you want a copy of my book, you can get it.
		And or my audio book, I did the voice for my own audio book.
		It was like I had to relive the whole thing.
		The number to call to order the book, you can get it on the internet, actually order it there, or call 1-800-864-7991.
		It is called The Art of Talk, and you really will enjoy it.
		1-800-864-7991.
		Just prepare yourself for the absolute truth.
		That's all.
		Be shocked, nice.
		It's the bottom of the hour.
		We're going to break here.
		We'll be right back with more.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from April 8, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April 8, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April 8, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from April 8, 1996.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from April 8th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell.
		And by the way, if you can hear us way out there somewhere, we do have an international number up and running and available for you.
		If I could find that number.
		What you do is you get hold of the AT ⁇ T operator in whatever country you happen to be in.
		And why can't I ever find what I want to find?
		I keep losing things.
		Well, anyway, I'll dig it out.
		We do have an international line.
		I just don't happen to have the number handy.
		Because I've got so much stuff up here.
		Here it is.
		You get hold of the AT ⁇ T USA direct access number for your country.
		And then call us.
		Dial that.
		And then call 800-893-0903.
		That's 800-893-0903.
		And HARP, the acronym HARP, is High Frequency Active Oral Research Project.
		Thank you.
		But, you know, when you think about it, it is not a hyphenated, high-frequency is not a hyphenated word.
		Therefore, it ought to actually be H-F-A-A-R-P.
unidentified		Huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		H-F-A-A-R-P.
		But that sounds more like a senior citizen's organization.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, all right.
		I had a couple comments about the technology and how you've been talking.
		People have been thinking of it as evil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you heard it down here a little while ago, didn't you?
unidentified		Yeah, it's kind of frightening.
		Some people have some real strange ideas.
		I don't ascribe to that.
		I think technology, if was, it does do good things.
		And I think where it does have a problem is that it is not done equally.
		I don't want to give up running water and indoor toilets and being able to cook at ease.
		But so many people in the world have none of these things.
		We have such high technology, and yet large portions of the world go without running water, toilets, the electricity that would make life better.
		And technology should be making life better instead of creating such anger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, why are things going so socially to hell in this country where we have just about everybody has running water and electricity and the basics and a lot more, frankly, and yet things are sliding downhill?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How come?
unidentified		Well, I was looking at it more planetarian, you know, as a global thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, but if you look at a lot of places where there's crushing poverty, no running water...
		No electricity.
		Well, I am, because we're measuring technological advance with respect to social retreat.
unidentified		Well, to answer that question then, I would think, is the fact that people don't get to know each other anymore.
		As an individual, even as a woman, I don't need...
		I can create my own environment.
		I can pay my own rent.
		Any individual can do that.
		At one time in history and society, people needed each other very much.
		Now we've gotten where we don't get to know people, so whatever fears we have, we don't have them dissipated by people disgusting them.
		And people are alone and afraid.
		And so the best way to make yourself safe is say, I'm safe in here, and it's bad out there.
		That's my look at it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fair enough.
		I thank you for the call.
		But I'm not sure how we soften the effects of technology and retain our social structure.
		I mean, that's really, really an interesting question.
		How do we do that?
		How do we soften the negative effects of technology or even cause it to enhance our social interaction rather than detract from it?
		That's a really good question.
		And wouldn't it be fun to ask the Unibomber that?
		What do you think he would say?
		Probably.
		Hey, Art, has the package arrived yet?
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hey, great.
unidentified		Art, my hat's off to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you shouldn't be wearing a hat inside anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Well, it's kind of cold up in Anchorage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're in Anchorage?
unidentified		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		In reference to HAARP, and I'm glad to hear you got the name dug through your paperwork.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, they really don't have it right anyway when you think about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It should be H-F-A-A-R-P.
unidentified		Granted, and anybody who has access through the computer and the Internet and that, in a section of the paper in Anchorage Daily News, in a section called We Alaskans, just about that entire section is devoted to HARP, and it gives the pros and the cons.
		It gives you both sides.
		It also gives reference to Nick Begich, the author of Angels Books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't play this.
unidentified		And I heard him while he was on your show, and he's very informed.
unidentified		And, you know, he's the son of a U.S. representative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I've got to believe that he's got a little more insight on what's going on than just say a normal guy like me who's trying to figure things out.
		His father was in politics and he's aware of some of the things that they may do.
		And I'm I'm kind of curious because he really takes a hard stand on some of the things that HART has the possibilities of doing and points it out in his book and also in this article in Sunday's paper.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh yes, well I am very aware of it.
		Thank you, of the possibility of weather modification at higher power levels, the possibility of human effect.
		In other words, the human brain operates, we know, at certain very low frequencies or is affected, it might be more accurate to say, by certain very low frequencies.
		And the amount of radiation coming back to Earth at the higher power levels could actually affect human thought.
		Or maybe it already is.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, turn your radio off.
unidentified		I got it there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		I was just sitting here.
unidentified		Oh, this is Dave in Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Dave.
unidentified		I was sitting here watching the Bloomberg television, and they were reporting a UFO over the second largest oil refinery there.
unidentified		They said several witnesses short blue opal light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where?
unidentified		In Saudi Arabia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
		I just thought you might want to hear that.
		They said it shined a blue opal light on it for several minutes and then disappeared in an unnatural way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ooh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a new one.
unidentified		Yeah, it's part of the quickening, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's probably just one more thing for ufology.
unidentified		That's true.
		That's true.
		Wow, this is really neat to get in a hold of you.
		Also, I have an idea since you're going worldwide for a new name for your show, why not just call it The Art of Talk?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the name of my book.
unidentified		Yeah, but it also refers to your show because more than you being R. Bell, your show is a good representation of what talk radio should be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		I do believe that.
		Just open lines and whatever happens, happens.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, that's the name of my book, sir, so I appreciate that, but we're going to keep it Coast Coast AM.
		It's been that for all these years.
		So we'll leave it alone.
		It became that.
		It used to be long, long ago.
		It used to be called West Coast AM.
		And the moment we syndicated and went national, we renamed it.
		And that's going to be the only renaming.
		Art, a short comment concerning Korea.
		I have two friends that were in the Army, one in the 70s, the other the 80s, assigned to the Nuclear Howitzer Division in Germany and Korea.
		Have you ever wondered why a million-man army is deterred by 15,000 Americans?
		There are only two main passes that cross the DMZ that the North Koreans would invade.
		My friends tell me that in the event, unlikely, of an all-out invasion, nuclear weapons are our first option.
		Three nuclear howitzer battalions are always on a highest state of readiness, about 19 miles from the DMZ.
		One kiloton cannon shells are stored at a military base south of Seoul.
		They'd require about an hour to fly them north to the howitzer battalions.
		There, the nukes would wait 100 yards back in an all-terrain cargo vehicle.
		The battalion commander radios, I have an authorization.
		The nukes are driven up and loaded.
		The next hellish hours would consist of cannons firing nukes, blowing up about a square mile at a time, as North Korean tanks pour into the DMZ.
		Don't think big.
		These are probably very small and relatively clean.
		P.S., the nuclear howitzer division in Germany, was transferred to Saudi Arabia before the Persian Gulf War.
		Rich in San Francisco.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		This is Rita.
		I'm calling you from Eastern Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Rita.
unidentified		Well, I just love your show, but I'm a little disappointed in you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I live with that.
unidentified		Okay, well, I understand how you feel about the Freemen in Montana, and I understand that they have overstepped their boundaries.
		But I also think that the basis behind what they're doing is correct.
		I mean, you know, the foreclosures and the taxes and things in this country are out of control.
		And I really feel that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're in a truck, right?
unidentified		I am in a log.
		You're what?
		I'm in a log truck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A what truck?
unidentified		A logging truck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A logging truck.
		I'll pull over.
		Do you own that logging truck?
unidentified		Yes, sir, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you make payments on it?
unidentified		No, sir.
unidentified		I own this truck outright now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You own it outright.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a house?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you make payments on that?
unidentified		Yes, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if you stop making payments on it, what do you think would happen?
unidentified		Well, I understand that.
unidentified		That's what I'm saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you don't really, because what you're saying is that too many people are going broke, and so the people that are going broke should not have anything taken away from them, and they can use nefarious, illegal means to keep it from happening, or stand there with guns.
unidentified		Oh, no, sir.
		That's not what I'm saying.
		I realize fully that they have overstepped their boundaries.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then in what manner are you defending their actions?
unidentified		Well, I feel that the underlying principle, I think they've taken it a little, you know, they've taken it way too far.
		But I think, you know, the IRS is out of control.
		And our tax system is based on presumption.
		And these 1040 forms that you sign, you presume or you give the presumption to the government that you owe taxes.
		And after that, then that gives them the right to come in and do whatever they want to to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you pay your taxes?
unidentified		Excuse me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you pay yours?
unidentified		Well, I have until I found out what I found out, and I'm not going to anymore.
		But I'm going to do it legally.
		I'm filing all the correct papers and claiming my sovereign citizenship and my non-resident alien status.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but a lot of people who have done all of that are now filing appeals from jail.
unidentified		No, they're not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, they are.
unidentified		No, they're not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They certainly are.
unidentified		I'm not sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, maybe you are an expert, but there are people, I won't mention their names, who are on the radio, do radio shows, and instruct people and have little programs about how not to pay taxes.
		They've been in jail.
		The experts.
unidentified		Well, I know that I've seen enough evidence of people that have done this.
		And all of our master files are supposedly, and I'm waiting to get mine back, but they are coded.
		And unless you were born in a United States territory, which would be Washington, D.C., Puerto Rico or Guam or the like, or you are a federal government employee, you do not earn the wages that the IRS code says you earn.
		You earn compensation for your labor, and it is not the same thing.
		They use words of art, and that's not a pun against you, but they turn things around and they use them for their own meaning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm a little disappointed in you.
unidentified		You're disappointed in me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		You know, our government is out of control.
		They have created a debt out of thin air.
		Our money is no longer backed in coins.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's ridiculous.
		Look, that's ridiculous.
		The debt is not out of thin air.
		The debt bought a lot of military things.
		It bought a lot of infrastructure.
		It bought a lot of Congress's social programs.
		It's not out of thin air.
unidentified		Yes, it is.
		Our Federal Reserve is totally unnecessary.
		How come we don't just print the money and issue it ourselves?
		How come we sell $1,000 bills to the Federal Reserve for $0.2.5 and then create a bond to back the borrowing of that money back again when we made it initially?
		How come we just don't issue debt-free money?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, thank you.
		I've heard this story a million times, and you are welcome to follow that trail if you wish.
		But before you get too wrapped up in watching the videos that I know you're watching and reading the books that I know you're reading, I suggest you check with a good bona fide tax person, not a government tax person, not the IRS, just a good bona fide tax accountant and tell them your story and see what they say about your chances of getting away with it.
		The End West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
		This is Bob from Portland, Oregon.
		Hi, Bob.
		I've listened to you for a couple years now and thoroughly enjoyed it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Just a couple of comments.
		When I was in the military, I was in the Arctic in the early 50s, right after the Korean War.
		And we continually tracked all sorts of unknowns, and they used to laughingly call them hats, high-altitude carrots, in reference to that carrot out of the Howard Hawks movie, The Thing.
		And what always kind of amused me, you know, you never hear anything about all this, but they had hundreds of trackings.
		We were never allowed to put them in the logs.
		And everybody that worked up there, it was probably six, seven hundred of us on the teams, knew about it.
		And I'm just surprised, you know, the government is pretty, at that time, we were involved with the Army and the Air Force.
		There was just hard rules.
		You just didn't mention them.
		But when our mail people would bring in, all the mail come in by helicopter.
		And they would see these things would be so fast and so low that they would disturb the snow in different areas.
		And the guys would be flying in and bring the mail, would say, hey, we see you've been visited again.
		There'd be all sorts of streaks and stuff out in the snow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's something going on out there.
unidentified		Well, I've always wondered.
		And later on, when I was a police officer in 1967 in Yamville County, Oregon, we had some type of craft.
		It wasn't just myself.
		There was about 30 or 40 people outside their cars.
		All the cops had clicked the radios and everybody was out looking.
		It was right overhead.
		And the National Guard Air Force scrambled out of Portland and zipped all over the place.
		I never found anything.
		This thing just kind of drifted off.
		But that, of course, was never reported.
		There's just so much of this that goes on.
		And just what little bit in my life I've experienced, you just have to know that something is going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, there are things in our skies.
		I've seen one that nobody can explain, period.
		And that's the name of that tune.
		I mean, there's no argument about it.
		They are there.
		Now, what they are, that's a different story.
unidentified		One of our reserve police officers was also in the National Guard.
unidentified		They're in the same unit, the Scrambled, for the ones in 1967.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think some time ago, one of them landed right there in Portland and is now what you know as your convention center.
unidentified		It looks like it, doesn't it?
unidentified		It really does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Two great big double spires.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Hey, I just wanted you to know I'm a former cop just working out here at nights, and I really enjoy your show.
		You're a lot of company.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Hey, take care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hey, Art Kenny at Mettery.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mettery, Louisiana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		You got it.
		You got it.
		Look, I was listening to the lady Logan truck driver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And, you know, it made me think, I've listened to your program for a while, and a lot of people call up with ways that they can not pay taxes.
		They want to say, well, I don't have to pay taxes.
		The country's not entitled to take these taxes from me.
		And, you know, it seems to me, if people would spend as much energy looking into legally how to pay less taxes, that they would be so much better off.
		You wouldn't have to hassle with the government.
		You would pay less taxes.
		And paying less taxes is really, I mean, there's nothing wrong with that.
		It's not like you're not doing your part.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, there's lots of good legal ways to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go buy IRIS.
unidentified		Exactly.
		I'll tell you, three years ago, I went from a $40,000 job down to a $20,000 job.
		And I looked into, I got an accountant to start doing my taxes.
		And I guess for three years, I wound up where I've made less, I've paid less taxes, but yet I have more than I had three years ago.
		And there's nothing illegal about it.
		I mean, I'm claiming all the things, doing everything.
		It's just that I have professional help.
		We have people that are saying, this is how you do it, and this is what you need to pay and don't pay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, I think it's a...
		If they think they can claim that it's not constitutional or that they are now citizens of some other sovereign entity and therefore they don't have to, and they're not going to pay taxes, and they're going to drive on the roads with their trucks, but to hell with taxes, well, that's fine.
		But once the IRS gets after you, you're sort of a marked person.
		And as you're pointing out, there are lots of legal ways to do it and to pay less tax or very little tax.
		And all you've got to do is go get a person who knows what they're doing.
unidentified		And it's a way of raising yourself in status, too.
		I mean, economically.
		So that you're better off economically.
		No, you're absolutely correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, I'm afraid we're utterly out of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So from Metaire, Louisiana, you get the big honors tonight.
unidentified		Thank God.
unidentified		Good night, America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the way to do it.
		All right.
		Well, listen, that will do it for tonight.
		It has been a blast, and we will do it again tomorrow night.
		Watch the Korean situation.
		Watch the volcano in the Caribbean.
		And there are just lots and lots of things to keep our eyes on.
		The news story on OJ, that's remarkable.
		You'll be hearing more about that today.
		Continuing vibrations from the plane crash, Ron Browns.
		Watch that one carefully, too.

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