Art Bell addresses the 1996 Freemen standoff in Jordan, Montana, where the anti-government group—facing charges like fraudulent liens and violent threats—risks a Waco-like confrontation; local law enforcement confirms no military involvement but cites bad checks and unlicensed traffic violations. Callers debate their sovereignty claims, with Bell dismissing selective law adherence as dangerous anarchy while acknowledging broader militia frustrations. He also critiques Ross Perot’s primaries remark as divisive, contrasts Buchanan’s delegate count (109) with Dole’s victory (1,193), and highlights alarming cancer spikes—550% for breast cancer since 1983, 300% for male non-smoking cancers post-WWII—with no clear cause. Ultimately, Bell warns against extremism while defending lawful order, framing compliance as the foundation of safety amid escalating distrust. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest.
I bid you all good evening.
Good morning, as the case may be, across all these many time zones, stretching from Hawaii and the Tahitian Islands in the west and actually beyond.
East, all the way across this great nation to the Caribbean, the U.S. Virgin Islands, south, well into South America, north to the pole via the internet worldwide.
I would like to mention again two items regarding my webpage, internet webpage.
One, yesterday when we got the Hoagland photographs up, we got them up wrong.
And so they came out kind of scrambled and all wrong.
And that was due to some translation errors in the photographs.
So they're up there now.
And I think you'll find them intriguing.
I particularly recommend the Zond photographs, the Russian photographs.
Take a good look and see what you think.
It's very difficult to look at photographs like that and know exactly what you're seeing because, of course, we have no reference here on earth for what we're seeing there.
Nevertheless, take a good look at the Zond photographs.
They are now up there for download in the proper format.
We had them all messed up last night.
Sorry about that.
So that's all set.
Also, WPSL in Port St. Lucie, Florida, now has their high-quality, high-speed line in.
So I think you'll notice a vast improvement listening to WPSL internet audio now, real audio on the internet.
Same for WOAI.
It's quite clear.
And I wanted to pass on a schedule.
I've been getting a lot of requests.
WOAI in San Antonio carries Dreamland.
That means it's carried on the Internet.
And the time is 1 a.m. to 4 a.m. on Monday morning.
1 a.m. to 4 a.m. Monday morning on WOAI.
So if you want to catch a repeat of Dreamland anywhere in the world, you can do that.
1 a.m. to 4 a.m. Central Time on the WOAI feed in San Antonio, Tech, or from San Antonio.
So really, we've got two real audio feeds up there right now, WOAI and WPSL, with their new improved audio, and it does sound very, very good.
So to get to my webpage, by the way, I've got a whole bunch of photographs from the Portland book signing back.
Even got a photograph of signing a bald guy's head.
I had no idea my wife snapped a photograph of that, but she did, and it came out very well.
So we'll upload that as well as some of the crowd photos and so forth and so on.
We'll do that in the next day or so.
I'm in the middle of scanning them in.
My webpage address for those of you that would like to access it is www.artbell.com.
Once again, www.artbell.com.
It's that easy.
Politics first tonight.
Yes, I have something on the so-called free men in Montana.
The delegates needed to win 996.
The delegates as of tonight, Dole, 1,193, Buchanan, 109, Keys 6, Uncommitted, 16, others, 79.
The primaries Tuesday in California, Nevada, Washington.
All have gone to Dole, predictably.
Dole himself finally saying, quote, the battle is over.
I am the nominee.
He is.
As a matter of fact, Bill Clinton carried all three states, California, Nevada, and Washington in 1992.
So it's over.
Dole is the nominee.
Buchanan publicly saying he's going all the way to San Diego, and I'm sure he will, but it's pretty much over.
He's going to have a big strategy meeting Thursday, Buchanan is.
So they may be making some decisions.
We'll see.
One die-hard Republican interviewed on NBC in San Diego, I thought said it rather well.
And I know it's not flashy, but it's what I believe in.
He said, with regard to politics, balance.
And the way he put it is the following, quote, look, I want to surf in pollution-free water and still be able to make a living.
And I don't think the two should be mutually exclusive.
And I agree with that.
It's kind of where I am.
Nobody in their right mind, either right or left, wants dirty air hanging over their city.
Nobody in their right mind wants dirty water.
You don't want you just said that animals never defecate in the same spot they eat.
And I believe that's true of human beings too, or certainly ought to be.
So in most things, I seek balance also.
Now, if that puts you in the boring middle, then so be it.
I guess I am.
But I want both.
In other words, we as Americans, it seems to me, ought to be able to have jobs.
We ought to be able to earn a living, make our way in the world, and at the same time hope for and realize relatively clean air, some natural lands left for us to roam and for our children.
In other words, I am an environmentalist.
Not crazed, but I'm an environmentalist.
And at the same time, I want to have jobs.
I want to be able to make a living.
That's a kind of a political balance that I find myself in.
Ross Perot, by the way, commenting on the Republican GOP primaries, called them, quoting, beyond sick.
That's what Ross said.
Beyond sick.
Now, what do you suppose he meant by that?
That Dole won?
That Buchanan did not do as well as he should have in Mr. Perot's eyes.
They're calling it an epidemic of breast cancer and citing the following figures.
With regard to the detection of early cancer, in 1983, there were 4,900 cases in America.
In 1992, there were 23,000.
That is an increase of 550%.
A 550% increase?
Well, surely a good portion of it could be attributed to early detection.
Generally, it leads to either a mastectomy or a lumpectomy, one of the two.
But those are startling figures, a 550% increase.
And it goes together rather well, or rather in a rather worrisome way, with the men's cancer stats.
Now, we've had this information for some time.
Since World War II, cancer of all kinds in men, not related to cigarette smoking, has increased 300% for absolutely no scientifically explainable reason.
So what have we got?
Women's breast cancer up 550%.
Men's cancer, all areas, up 300%.
Does anybody have a guess or a clue with regard to the cause?
The second running story on Reuters this morning is militants hole up in Montana.
Members of a militant anti-government group are holed up in a remote farmhouse in eastern Montana, refusing to surrender to federal authorities.
Members of the so-called free men have been named in a federal indictment accusing them of using phony money orders and checks and threatening federal officials.
The group's leaders, Leroy Switzer, I believe it is, 57, Daniel Peterson Jr., 53, disrupted their arraignment at a Billings courthouse Tuesday, forcing federal magistrate to postpone the whole thing.
Now, I think we're going to take a good bite out of this topic tonight.
And I've got a letter that I'm going to read you.
This letter, when I read it, it will be obvious to you.
It is from the Free Men or from supporters of the Free Men in Montana.
It's entitled, Free Men of Montana Under Assault Need Help.
We predicted last year that Janet Reno was going to attack the militia of Montana.
We even gave you the date, Saturday, March 25th, 1995.
We blew it.
We missed it by one year, exactly.
And I'm trying to recall who it was who made that prediction.
And it's somebody involved in the group, but I can't recall who, so I'm assuming this facts is from that same group.
At any rate, it details their side of the story.
And I thought I would read it to you so that we might discuss what's going on and what you think about it.
and kind of go behind the headlines a little bit.
Here we go.
Today, March 25th, 1996, Special Forces units of the U.S. Army made a sweep or roundup of the free men of Montana.
The free men have been a thorn in the side of Janet Reno since she became Attorney General.
She does not like free men.
She does not like men, period, especially free ones.
Janet Reno and the Army of the United States, in clear violation of the Posse Comitatus Act, today assaulted the compound of the free men of Montana.
The free men have been putting together common law courts and filing commercial suits and liens against county, state, and federal officials and judges with some success when acts by government officials violate the rights of free men.
The free men have rightly thrown away their driver's licenses.
Sovereign citizens of free states do not have to ask the state for permission or pay a fee for the right to move about in the public domain or to freely carry firearms.
Free men rightly disobey the unconstitutional and illegal orders of the IRS.
No person is obligated to pay a tax on wages, tips, and salaries to the federal government.
Janet Reno has vowed to assault and arrest free men and is now carrying out her pledge in violation of the U.S. Constitution.
In a live televised interview on C-SPAN in 1993 after she ordered the slaughter of the branch Davidians, Janet, the buck stops here, Reno, was asked by a reporter what can be done to prevent tragedies like Waco in the future.
The Attorney General of the United States of America, Janet Reno, said, quote, next time we will not invite the media, end quote.
That was her solution to prevent the slaughter of innocent children.
Her solution is simply not to invite the media.
That way, the truth will never be told.
Guess what?
She did not invite the media to Jordan, Montana.
As of tonight, ten free men are not free, but are holed up in a building in Jordan, Montana, about 130 miles east of Lewiston, and under assault by Janet Reno, the United States Army, and the fascist, socialist, totalitarian government of the United States.
The United States Army is being used illegally by Janet Reno.
Congress needs to move immediately to impeach President Bill Clinton and Attorney General Janet Reno for violations of their oath of office.
So there you have it of the argument.
They've thrown away their drivers' licenses.
They've refused to pay and regard as unconstitutional income tax of any kind.
They make their own laws.
They claim their own government within the American government or land.
And they claim they are sovereign within their own country.
They actually claim that they have a country.
So there you've got it laid out on their side.
The other side would obviously be that if everybody were to do this, we would have anarchy.
If everybody threw away or regarded as unnecessary their driver's licenses, the slaughter that goes on on our highway clearly would be horrible, horrible.
As bad as the system may be right now, imagine everybody throwing away or not even bothering to get a driver's license.
No vision test, no ability test to drive, just get in a car and go.
Not going to pay income tax.
They have decided that income tax is not legal and that on wages, tips, income of any sort whatsoever, they are not bound constitutionally or legally to pay any kind of tax and they're not going to do it.
So they are manifestly rejecting everything that represents the U.S. government and local governments, and they are suggesting we are a government unto ourselves.
So I wonder how you feel about that.
Is that something that you support?
Do you feel the way the free men feel?
You rally behind them and say, yes, Aries, sir, it's about time somebody stood up to this government.
It's about time somebody told the IRS to take their tax and jam it.
It's about time somebody realized you don't need a driver's license or anything like that to move around on the streets.
And of course, there have been allegations of threats made against the lives of people in the justice system and so forth in Montana.
So obviously, I would enjoy hearing from people in Montana.
We have complete coverage across the state of Montana.
And I'd like to know what people think.
I'd like to know what you think about it.
And I wanted to wait until I had what I consider to be a representative sampling of what it is the free men really feel.
And that's what I think this letter fairly represents.
So I thought I'd let you think about that a little bit and digest that letter and sort of give me a little feedback on how you feel about it.
And by the way, I do understand, as a side note, there are women, there are children, according to reports I've heard, a hold up with these so-called free men.
In other words, there are apparently free women and free children there as well.
I sense we're probably going to talk about the free men a little bit.
I've got a couple of other items, and then we will launch, good word these days, into two-way talk radio unscreened coming next.
unidentified
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
And you know, I may have said some unkind things about ATT, the Bell Company.
You wouldn't think I would with my last name, would you, in the past?
I have said a few unkind things, but I must say, I want to thank the people at ATT.
Though we don't have it yet, they're moving mountains and oceans, literally, to get us an international 800 line, and we think they just might be able to do it.
They're fooling around with all kinds of ideas like gateway cities and all kinds of things that I don't understand.
And their software people and ATT's hardware people are hard at work trying to figure out a way to give us a true international 800 line.
And so I want to publicly thank them for all the work they're doing.
They really are going above and beyond in the attempt to create something that, frankly, has never been.
They're doing something entirely new, and they're trying to do it for us.
So I think they deserve our thanks.
So thank you.
Now, I'm tracking a number of other stories.
And this is one of them.
Hey, Art, there was a woman, Dottie, her name was, from Seattle.
She called you up a few months ago, said something about finding a strange goo-like substance all over her yard, house, and porch.
You and the audience speculated with her from natural to supernatural causes.
It was on the Discovery Channel tonight.
She was on Arthur C. Clarke's Mysterious Universe.
She took that unknown substance to a lab to have it analyzed.
Only thing the scientists could do was rule out animal feces.
In other words, they don't know what it is.
So you may recall that woman said it was going to be on the Discovery Channel, and so it was tonight.
One other item that I'm tracking, and I don't fully understand, I taped something called Paranormal Borderline, which ran at 9 o'clock on UPN, and they had an awful lot of information on there about UFOs, abduction, victims, that sort of thing, implants.
And in a lot of ways, it vindicated what Bud Hopkins and John Mack have been saying, and Nova should be apologizing for.
But I had thought, and maybe I'm wrong, I had thought that Gordon Michael Scallion was due to be on Paranormal Borderline.
I taped it, and they had kind of a headline of what they were doing during the program.
And even though I've got it on tape and I didn't get to watch all of it, I noticed nothing about Gordon Michael Scallion.
Maybe I've got the date wrong.
I thought it was supposed to be the 26th.
Or maybe they did have him on during one of those segments that I did not get a chance to see.
So there you've got it.
Then two other quick things.
Art, our company has a foundation that funds cancer research.
The high incidence of present-day cancer is caused by a lifelong diet heavy on animal fat, synthetic substances in food, and the lack of fresh and raw fruits and vegetables.
Pollution does play a role, but what we eat is the main cause.
And then finally, here's kind of a weird one for you.
Art, what if God was actually a bad guy?
I'd speculate that he or she might create a world much like the one we live in.
How could this world be governed by an all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good God?
Perhaps God, in his old age, is suffering from dementia and is no longer capable of keeping us in line.
It's time to call in Dr. Jack to finish the job.
Oh, geez.
Then mankind would be free of religion's tyranny and could focus its efforts on improving human welfare.
It was amusing because, or interesting, I should say, because George Carlin spoke quite in detail about him feeling that something is definitely going on, that the world is, as he said, heading quickly towards the drain.
Really?
And basically, he was explaining the quickening without using the terms.
And there is, of course, a provision in the Constitution of the state of Texas that allows it to get out of the Union, I guess, under some circumstances.
unidentified
Right, right, which happened about 160 years ago.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Okay, I'm just curious to see if there's any more on it.
Well, Mr. Bell, I was wondering, is it if I'm being paranoid, or is it kind of unusual that somebody just, I don't know what their circumstances were, but somebody just thought up to flood the Grand Canyon and did it?
Or did they have studies to really consider the ramifications on either end of it?
It is ostensibly a scientific experiment to redeposit sediment along the Colorado River banks going through the Grand Canyon and further on down to restore ecologically what has been lost by the damming.
That takes me back to what I said a little earlier.
I think politically I'm kind of balanced.
In other words, I am and always have been, despite what some would allege, I've been an ecologist.
I believe in watching our ecology.
We live here.
This is our earth.
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand that we should not foul the same place we live in.
On the other hand, we shouldn't go nuts and worship the earth either.
So somewhere between worshiping the earth and its resources and squandering them and strip mining and doing things to earth that hurt it, somewhere in the middle there, there's a balance, and that's where I am.
I'm not anti-ecology, nor am I crazily pro-ecology.
I'm just kind of in the middle, and I think that's where more people than not really are.
And because I call myself a conservative, and I am conservative, certainly economically, I'm not blind to other issues, and the ecology is one of those.
There's some, you know, they're not just paranoid or getting this stuff out of thin air.
Things that sort of get on my nerves, for example, Reader's Digest has a column every month called That's Outrageous.
Yes.
A couple months ago, they had an incident in Florida where this old retired Cuban man played cards every weekend, nickel and dime poker with his buddies.
And he was raided by the cops and arrested for having an illegal gambling establishment, and they confiscated his house.
And there was one out here in California.
This got some publicity.
It was a few years ago.
It was a millionaire lived by himself out in Malibu.
Is it a circumstance that is going to spiral out of control, I guess is the question.
In other words, I've said for a long time that the government, the ATF, the IRS, even the FBI, to a lesser degree, have got some hot dogs in their organization that are doing the kinds of things you talked about and that are jumping the gun, pun intended.
Yes.
So you've got that.
unidentified
I think it's healthy for us to try to stop that.
That's what the whole Bill of Rights is about, to try to put brakes on the cops so they don't get too fascistic.
And they are, in effect, declaring Justice Montana, J-U-S T-U-S, I believe they spell it, to be a sovereign place, to be a sovereign place.
And so I thought we should discuss the real details of this case and whether you two feel they are too extreme, how you would deal with them if you were in charge of having to deal with them, what you would do, what should be done, and how we avoid a catastrophic collision here.
Anything could happen here.
They could peacefully give up, fight it out in court on the one side, or there could be other militias that will head in to help them out, ostensibly, make a stand against the federal government.
Or there could be another Waco.
As we discussed the branch Davidians and what they believed in And why they took their stand and what they did.
So we can now discuss the free men and what they stand for and whether we support what they're doing or whether they are over the edge.
One thing I want to make a point of real quick, and that is these guys are hold up there not because they threw away their driver license or anything like that, but apparently they've been writing checks on non-existent bank accounts at a couple of banks and issuing phony money orders.
The question is, though, you see, if it comes down to violence, which it may, will the other militias stand by and say, look, Montana might, the Michigan militia might, but most of the other militias won't.
He came on CNN last night about 2.30 in the morning, and he was going to have a live event with the space shuttle that has just joined up with the mirror.
We're talking about the free men in Montana for the most part and what's going on in Montana right now near Billings.
And I've got a fax here from Troy in Billings, and he says, subject free men are free from the truth.
Your letter from the Freeman supporters is total BS.
First, there are no special forces troops in the area.
None in the state, far as I know.
Second, U.S. Army troops are not in the area, nor are they being used against these people in Jordan.
Local police plus FBI only.
Third, there are 10 Freemen, it's a little hard to read, are not being held captive against their will.
They've been holed up there in self-imposed isolation on their buddy's farm for several months.
There are no women or children, to my knowledge.
Now, I heard a report otherwise earlier today on CNN, so that one's a little foggy.
They totally disrupted the federal court today.
That is certainly true, to the degree that the whole thing had to be rescheduled.
And I in no way represent the information in this letter as accurate, merely as a letter from supporters.
And the reason I read it is to have a discussion with you, the American people, about what it is they believe and why they're in trouble right now.
Now, there have been allegations of all kinds of things that are violations of the law.
Phony money orders, checks, threatening federal officials, that sort of thing.
But beyond that, the so-called free men have certain beliefs that I thought it worthy of discussing with you.
And we may open the line for Montana.
There's nothing like getting information from the source.
So I may do that.
Open a special line for people just in Montana.
But I'm going to read you this letter again.
And bear in mind that what you're hearing is either from the free men or their supporters.
Obviously so as you listen to it.
It's entitled Free Men of Montana Under Assault Need Help.
We predicted last year that Janet Reno was going to attack the militia of Montana.
We even gave you the date, Saturday, March 25th, 1995.
We blew it.
We missed it by one year exactly.
Well, now, let me stop here for a second and say that it was my understanding that some one or several of the free men actually issued arrest warrants, believe it or not, for people in the militia of Montana.
So I would assume, and maybe I should not, that there is no love lost between the two groups, but that could be incorrect.
Anyway, continuing with the letter, today, March 25th, 1996, special forces units of the U.S. Army made a sweep or roundup of the free men of Montana.
The free men have been a thorn in the side of Janet Reno since she became Attorney General.
She does not like free men.
She does not like men, period, especially free ones.
Janet Reno and the Army of the U.S., in clear violation of the Posse Comitatas Act, today assaulted the compound of the free men of Montana.
The free men have been putting together common law courts and filing commercial suits and liens against county, state, and federal officials and judges with some success when acts by government officials violate the rights of free men.
The free men have rightly thrown away their driver's licenses.
Rightly, he says.
Sovereign citizens of free states don't have to ask the state for permission or pay a fee for the right to move about in the public domain or to freely carry firearms.
Free men rightly disobey the unconstitutional and illegal orders of the IRS.
No person is obligated to pay attacks on wages, tips, and salaries to the federal government.
Janet Reno has vowed to assault and arrest free men and is now carrying out her pledge in violation of the U.S. Constitution.
In a live televised interview on C-SPAN in 93 after the ordered slaughter of the branched videos, Janet the Buck stops here.
Reno was asked by a reporter what can be done to prevent tragedies like Waco in the future.
The Attorney General of the U.S., Janet Reno, said, next time we will not invite the media.
That was her solution.
To prevent slaughter of innocent children, civilians rather, her solution is simply not to invite the media.
That way the truth will never be told.
Guess what?
She did not invite the media to Jordan, Montana.
As of tonight, 10 free men are not free, but are holed up in a building in Jordan, Montana, about 130 miles east of Lewiston, and are under assault by Janet Reno, the U.S. Army, and the fascist, socialist, totalitarian government of the U.S.
The U.S. Army is now being used illegally by Janet Reno.
Congress needs to move immediately to impeach the president and Janet Reno for violations of their oath of office.
So, what you just heard, a great portion of it may be total BS, as Troy says.
And in fact, I read it so that you could hear what they are saying, not so that you might know the truth, because I don't know what the truth is.
There were rumors that the U.S. Army was there.
I happen not to believe it.
That doesn't mean it's not true.
I happen not to believe it.
I think that Troy has it right, and it's local law enforcement and the FBI.
Beyond that, a discussion of what the Freemen apparently believe might be in order.
Hi, Art, unless my memory fails me, I seem to remember that the Freemen Group were the ones that issued a warrant for the arrest of the head of the Montana militia.
If such is the case, why is the government referring to the Freemen Group as a militia?
When there seems to be only about a dozen people, ten actually free men involved in the most recent confrontation.
Well, exactly right.
And as far as I know, they are not a militia.
They are, I don't know, what would you call them?
Militants, I guess?
Anti-government militants?
I don't believe they're a militia.
Then this, Hi, Art, been out of the country for a week.
Could you please tell me what happened at the Hoagland press conference?
I'm dying to find out.
Pete, K-E-X.
Well, Pete, log on to my webpage.
I just can't go into all of that right now.
There are the minutes of the press conference up there.
Several articles written in national publications are up there.
Photographs, now corrected from yesterday, are up there.
Yesterday we got the photographs up, but they were not right, and there was a problem in the translation of them.
Tonight they're up there, and I recommend you go get the Zond Russian photographs on my webpage.
And this is from 1966, and this is on the very second page.
This is a quote, quote, the assessment is made when the unpaid tax liability is entered on the appropriate records of the Internal Revenue Service, Dash, which occurs in the case of a taxpayer who voluntarily shows the tax liability on his return shortly after the time the return is filed.
So that shows, and many other Supreme Court precedents show, that once you enter or once you submit a 1040 form under oath, you're stating that you're volunteering and declaring that you're making an income.
unidentified
And luckily, I've never done that, so I don't have anything to fear.
This morning on the Don Island show, George Carlin was one of the guests, and he was saying essentially the same thing he said on the Charlie Rose show.
And I was pretty surprised.
I thought maybe he's an Art Bell fan or just particularly astute.
Whether he listens to the program or not, I have no way of knowing, Pete, but it has been suggested to me that he is now saying roughly what I've been saying for a long time.
And I think it's because he studies very carefully human behavior.
And that's how he comes up with all of his comedy routines.
And maybe as he's been studying human behavior more recently, he hasn't found much to laugh about.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, that could be one of the problems.
Do you ever get the Jim Lehrer news hour from PBS?
Okay, they had a certain Dr. Laura Emmanuelides of the Yale Medical School discussing her specialty, neurological diseases, in other words, Kreutzfeld-Jakob syndrome.
Now, she said that she mentioned that in Slovakia, which is part of what used to be Czechoslovakia, there was a focus, in other words, a small outbreak of CJD infection in which cats were infected.
Latest on that, British Prime Minister John Major says he now will consider slaughtering some of Britain's cattle to ease fears of mad cow disease.
So I knew he'd be eating those words.
British officials had previously ruled out the idea, saying it was unnecessary.
But an influential farmers' union sent the government a letter, called on it to restore public confidence in beef by taking steps to ensure that older cows do not enter the human food chain.
In Brussels Tuesday, European Union veterinary officials reaffirmed their call for a ban on British beef exports.
So I told you the prime minister there would be eating his words, and it looks like he's already begun the meal.
And once again tonight, Vidian is up at the moment.
If you want to check in, you're welcome to.
Lately, I have taken to turning Vidian on, not 24 hours a day, but generally just when I'm on the air.
Because this is an absolutely incredible, incredible technology, but I felt a little like a goldfish in a bowl, you know, so I don't leave it up 24 hours a day.
It allows people to look in, in effect, on my life.
And I am astounded by how much they can see.
I mean, I have people looking right into my other room beneath my pool table watching my cats fight.
So I've taken to putting this up just during my show because, you know, my studio here is part of my home.
And I found that I had to be too careful about wandering about in the house, if you follow me, particularly getting up and all of that.
So I've taken to just putting Vidian up during the times that I'm on the air.
I hope you understand.
Don't mind having it there so you can sit and watch me do the program.
I enjoy that.
Chris in Memphis is presently on watching me.
So I very much enjoy it, but during other times of the day, for reasons of privacy, as the British would say, a bit of privacy, why we've extinguished Vidian during the day.
They are not connected, as far as I know, to the militia of Montana, which, in fact, has had some grievance with them or them with the militia, one way or the other.
So I want to be careful not to tag this to the militia.
Yeah, before the station break, I was commenting on the fact that I spent eight years in the United States Navy.
And I guess what it relates to this is I had a strong sense of patriotism and everything else when I entered the armed services.
And I guess what it relates to this is that I don't understand these militia groups or any groups in the United States that ride upon some sort of personal freedom or patriotism that resort to illegal acts and all sorts of things in order to get their point across.
I can understand protesting and voting and legal means, but I just don't think it's gotten to a revolutionary point in this country yet for people to be acting the way they are.
And I think your response and that of others says exactly that.
I'm going to read to you now.
Dear R, it seems every time I fax you, you ignore my letters.
Well, look, I don't.
I get two or three hundred faxes a night.
So I'll read this one.
Now I fax you to inform you that these so-called free men are not legitimate citizens, yet they claim to be harassed and subjected to government's wrongdoing against them.
Bunk!
In this instance, they are using the anti-government sentiment out there for their own personalized agenda.
These people are regular crooks that run around ripping the common citizens off by passing bad checks and whatever illegal activity they can to maintain their existence.
I do support many of those individuals who wish to be free of our government's taxation without representation or wish to be absolutely self-sufficient from the government.
If they were burning their draft cards, as with the 1960s, I might be supportive.
But this time, these are genuine hillbillies, signed T-Bone.
Well, there's your facts, T-Bone.
And I think that you make a rather good point.
I don't know if I agree with the whole thing.
The truth is somewhere probably in the middle.
I just think that getting this out is the best possible medicine for the American public to be able to digest what may occur.
Now, exactly, who are these people?
Exactly, what do they really believe?
Do you really share those views?
Tossing out driver's licenses, painting your own numbers on a driver's license, excuse me, on a license plate on your car, refusing to pay income tax, harassing local officials, disrupting court procedures when you do get taken to court.
Yeah, I was just wondering, Mr. Bell, if you'd like the opportunity to have on your show probably this country's foremost expert on the Internal Revenue Code Title 26.
And I will entertain having anybody on, whether I agree with them or not.
And it so happens that I really don't agree with, generally, with tax protesters.
People who say, I don't agree with what's being done with my money, so I refuse.
Or they take the tact that, various tax, that income tax is voluntary, or that the 16th Amendment was never properly ratified, and so I'm not paying tax.
I don't join those people.
I pay my tax.
And though I complain, like many of you, about a lot of what's done with it, I support the concept of it.
And I believe a great deal in the freedom of the people.
And the problem these people seem to be having is the restrictions that are being placed on them by a government.
And all I can say is, I have my freedom.
I have my family.
I have everything I need, a lot of what I want, in spite of the government, not because of it.
And as far as, you know, they're saying they're protesting and they're arguing against the government and they're doing things, basically, they're putting themselves in a bad position to where...
You really got what you got because you worked for it, sir, and you live in a system that allows you to do that.
unidentified
Yes, I do.
And I appreciate what I have.
Yes.
I'm going to say I'm damn glad I live in a country where I can do these things.
There you are.
And as far as people go, you know, if you can't appreciate what you have, all I can say is I don't see millions of people flooding the borders into Mexico, Puerto Rico, or European nations.
I see millions of those people coming to this country.
To the best of my knowledge, despite what may have been said in this letter, as far as I know, the U.S. armed services are not present in Montana.
It's the FBI.
It's local law enforcement.
And look, based on what I've seen, and I know that it's going to make a lot of people out there suggest, there he goes again, Mr. Establishment.
I think they're doing absolutely the right thing.
You want an opinion?
There it is.
I think they're doing the right thing, law enforcement, that is.
And if anything, it seems to me they're bending over backwards, trying to avoid a bloody conflict.
Whether that will ultimately be the case or not, I don't know.
Part of that decision rests with the so-called free men who are a hold up.
You know, if they start shooting, the feds are going to shoot back.
But you just cannot declare yourself to be a sovereign little area within a sovereign nation, within a sovereign state.
You just can't do that in America.
You can't start writing bad checks.
You can't start writing illegal money orders.
You can't declare yourself a bank, a sovereign area, and that you're damn well going to do what you please.
And if you do, you should expect trouble.
And that's what they've got, is trouble.
So that's my reading on this.
I nevertheless wanted you to hear a letter from or about that group or from their supporters and hear what they had to say.
And I tend to agree with the facts or several factors that these people are using a legitimate sentiment out there in America right now, an anti-government kind of frustrated, angry sentiment.
They're using it to support general lawlessness.
And that's how I regard this.
I don't want it to turn into any tragedy.
And I certainly don't want a bunch of people who think they're protecting their sovereign rights running out to help these people because I consider them to be engaging in criminal activity and using the banner of anti-government anger to cloak themselves in.
That's the way I'm looking at this, and I know that's what's going to cause a lot of you to say, well, what a sellout, boy.
You must have had a visit from the feds, huh?
No, I'm just looking at this as I believe it is.
Now, we will solicit shortly.
As a matter of fact, let us do that.
Let me open my West of the Rockies line to Montana only.
Montana only.
If you're in Montana, if you know anything about what's going on up there right now, call 1-800-618-8255.
Everybody else, hold off, and we'll get to hear from the area.
It's 1-800-618-8255.
If you're in Montana, if you know something about all of this, if you would like to say, what a bunch of baloney, why there's military forces all over the place.
We see the Army and the Marines, and they're closing in.
Well, then you can call and say that.
If, on the other hand, you want to call up and say, look here, we're right in the middle of it all.
We know what these guys are about.
They're not about a genuine protest.
They're lawbreakers, in our view.
And that's it.
If you want to say that, then you can say that.
But this is an important topic right now.
Why is it important?
I'll tell you.
Because, in my opinion, if these men are allowed to cloak themselves in all of this anti-government sentiment, they're going to draw support that will result in a bloody confrontation that should not be for these reasons.
He got in with some of the wrong people, and I think that he had an identity crisis, and he got mixed up with a bunch of people that he shouldn't have.
I don't know what he plans on starting a revolution or whatnot or what he's got going on in his thick little skull.
And I'm not too happy about anything that's going on up there.
I worry with you about their fate and what they're doing and why they're doing it.
The only thing I'm trying to do here, thank you very much for the call, is to get out some information across the country about what this is and what it isn't.
I don't want to see a flashpoint where there otherwise should not be one.
And I've been fearing this for a long, long time.
You know, something else that would come along that would be like or perceived to be like a Waco.
God help us should there be another Waco.
But I don't think that's what this is.
And I don't want it to be that.
And the only thing that will prevent it from being that is if what's expressed in this letter and, you know, what's flying around by faxes is generally shown to be, frankly, BS, that the U.S. government with the military in violation of the U.S. Constitution is closing in, blah, blah, blah.
That kind of talk and that kind of thing is going to cause a sympathetic reaction in, admittedly, a large anti-government group that's out there right now.
I know it's there.
You know what's there.
We all know it's there.
And I think only a clear understanding of what they're really about and what's really going on will prevent real trouble.
And I said I'd heard reports there were women there and children.
And there may in fact be.
I don't know.
unidentified
Oh, I can guarantee that there are.
I was just there on Sunday, Saturday and Sunday.
Yes.
They give a school, a class, usually once a week, that they usually have 25 people or so that come out to the class and teach from their point of view what's going on.
Another point that might be interesting for you is that they're not writing bad checks.
What they have done is perfected a number of Uniform Commercial Code type liens against many different kinds of people that they feel have tromped on their constitutional rights.
These liens have been perfected and upheld in various courts, and then based on those liens, they're reassigning some of that lien credit to various people, and then they run it back through the system.
So it's not a check on any bank account per se, and they're not writing bad checks claiming they have money in a bank.
In fact, they actually have a special collection account for the liens with the United States Treasury.
I know, but if you write a check in payment for a service or a product or food or whatever it is, and that check cannot be cashed, then it's not a good check.
unidentified
But it's not cashed the normal way.
You put it through directly to the comptroller of the currency, and then it is redeemable for that person.
Somebody must have had trouble cashing a check because that's one of the charges.
unidentified
Right.
Well, I would assume that the government doesn't like these things coming back to them, and so they're kind of upset that this is taking place when, in fact, they are liened, and the liens have been declared valid.
They are a common law type of lien.
And that is the other thing that they really want to do.
They want to get back to the common law as opposed to statutory law.
You know, it really reminds me, this piece particularly called Montezuma, reminds me of the Moody Blues back in the days when they were accompanied by a full orchestra.
They had a statewide task force made up of different tactical teams from throughout the state of Montana that were planning to do something about the Freeman movement here.
Right.
Or excuse me, not about the movement, but about the situation up in Jordan.
We were given information from the FBI, and at the last moment, they stepped in and took over the operation.
From our intelligence, there is definitely women and children up on that ranch up there.
No driver's licenses, no license plates, no paying federal income tax.
unidentified
Well, that's what the check was.
There was one of the freemen that live in the county here had been cited on numerous traffic violations, no license plates like what you say, and fake driver's license or no driver's license or whatsoever.
And they did, in fact, pass a bad check or attempt to to post his bond here in this county.
Well, what is your attitude about what they're doing?
Simple, straightforward.
They are breaking the law?
unidentified
Well, yes.
You know, I feel that everyone has the right to their own views and to voice their views.
But when you step out on the other side and threaten violence against law enforcement officers or anyone of authority, then that's stepping over the line.
What makes this so damn touchy is that there are all these militia groups now and all of these anti-government or even anti-law enforcement organizations that are kind of on the edge.
And I'm not talking about the mainline militias now, but groups that might be inclined to come to the aid of these people.
And there's always the possibility of a violent confrontation.
And it looks to me like the government, the FBI, law enforcement is going out of their way to try to avoid that.
Maybe even too far out of their way.
I don't know.
I think that we just can't allow this kind of thing to go on.
And yet things are very sensitive today.
Buildings are blowing up in our country.
People are very upset with the government for some good cause.
But I just fear what's going to happen.
And I think getting out the truth about what's going on here will prevent such a problem.
unidentified
Well, as far as the local newspapers here and over in Billings, Montana, I'm reading nothing of any of the Montana militia moving in to assist these folks at all.
I understand that this this group actually issued an arrest warrant or something for the head of the Montana militia.
unidentified
I have heard that too.
I couldn't I couldn't give you any type of an official on that.
But we we have freemen that are in this county and we have members of the militia and we've never had a problem with the militia members.
It seems more with the Freeman that think the local law enforcement has no type of authority over them, and that seems to be the main problem that we have in this county around Bozem, Montana.
If you were in charge of having to deal with this, would you take the attitude of just sort of in effect surrounding them or having a standoff and just waiting till hell freeze is over if necessary so that it can end peacefully, or how would you handle it?
unidentified
Well, I think that what's being done is the correct way.
There's a good quote in the Billings paper that stated that taking Lee Roy Schweitzer away from the Freeman was like having half of your brain removed.
In this particular situation, I really, really think that getting the truth out is essential to preventing trouble.
And I can tell you right now, there are faxes, there are stories that are crossing fax machines and across the internet that are making this group out to be heroic, anti-government people deserving of protection with the entire U.S. Armed Services closing in on them and all the rest of it.
And it's a bunch of baloney folks.
Near as I can tell, it's absolute baloney.
So you make up your own mind.
You continue to listen to the people that are calling that know about this.
And you make up your own mind.
If there is a time when there's going to be a conflict, I think this should not be it.
And that those who would think of coming to the assistance of this group should think twice and three times before they do it.
Pick your cause carefully, gentlemen.
I want to say one other thing.
The photographs that we had up yesterday on the internet just were terrible.
And there was a problem in the translation of them going up to the webpage.
And I refer now to the Richard Hoagland pictures.
And here is one sent to me by Fax.
Dear Art, this picture, the one above, of an astronaut and what's in the background, and certainly the Zond photographs seem to cry out for an explanation from the Never a Straight Answer Boys.
I admit I was skeptical, but these are beyond interesting.
They are fascinating.
This is from Mike.
So we've got the photographs up there correctly now for you to download.
And again, I do indeed recommend you see the Zond photographs and several of the others that are up there now.
And if you tried them yesterday and had no luck, try them again today because today they've been put up there properly.
And I want to thank Keith, who worked damn near all night on it to get it done last night.
Well, these guys, they did, first of all, the caller from Spokane is pretty confused.
They did, they have been for a long time, this is nothing new, making up their own checks and money orders on banks that they make up in their minds, I guess.
Well, they decide that, I don't know, it all starts that, you know, that they start to lose money on their farms and things.
I don't understand why, like, their farms will start to go down.
The prices, you know, go up, whatever.
They can't make enough money on their ranches.
And then, so they go in to get loans, and they get their loans.
They default, and the government ends up taking away part of the ranches and things.
And it kind of confuses them.
They start to get pretty upset about this.
So they just, I think they get in their minds that if anybody can just make up a bank, you know, if the banks can just do this to them, then they don't have to go through those banks.
They'll make up their own banks.
So they decide, well, I have a bank, you know, and it's based on my potato crop this year.
And this potato crop is worth about, you know, $300.
So that's how much I have in my bank.
And I can write a checkout on that.
And that's the way they do it.
They'd also done money orders, fake money orders, I just heard on the radio the last break.
So it's not, this is by, they are, the guy was halfway right.
They did have some liens against people, but that had nothing to do with their checks or money orders.
And that, too, is what I had understood from the wire services.
Now, granted, the wire services can frequently get it wrong, and they might have it wrong.
But a lot of what I see here is or should be the subject of genuine interest by law enforcement.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is please pick your causes carefully and before you jump, understand what you're jumping on.
Because I get a lot of fax traffic and I know what's going on out there.
Believe me, I know I'm in touch.
I get faxed by a lot of these groups and I know what's going on.
There's a lot of talk of the Army moving in and as far as I can see, that's baloney.
There's a lot of talk about moving in and crushing the group.
So far, there's been none of that.
In fact, frankly, if you want to know the truth, I think that law enforcement is bending over backwards, maybe even too far because of what occurred at Waco.
Maybe even too far.
In other words, I really am on the side of law enforcement.
And I think they're a little gunshy.
You'll excuse the phrase, I hope, at the moment.
And there needs to be law enforcement in this country.
You cannot just declare yourself to be a sovereign area within a sovereign state, within a sovereign country.
You just can't do that.
And if you have disagreements with the American government, which they obviously do, there are prescribed methods of redress.
Really, there are.
I know that a lot of frustrated anti-government types say, well, it doesn't do any good.
Yes, it does.
You can fight if that's what you want to do.
We have one of the very few systems on the whole face of the globe, if you doubt that, travel a little bit, that allows you all these avenues of redress.
And it is not time to give up on that wonderfully now two centuries old system that does work.
Cumbersome, yes, but it does work.
East of the Rockies, you're on whoops, would have been on the air.
So we have nothing to do with the people that are very little, huh?
unidentified
If you were to put in a third-party candidate in the good old boy system who does not like it, do you think the Electoral College is going to put him in?
You know, see, that is the kind of talk that I think is absolute, utter garbage.
Garbage.
Absolute garbage.
The two main schools of thought in this country are a generally conservative, generally liberal, a sprinkling of libertarianism, a support for Ross Pro and others.
This man is saying it can't be done.
It absolutely can't be done.
Of course it can be done.
It's just that not enough people want to join you to do it.
Well, first of all, you probably understand that I have to put out a disclaimer on what I say just for my own interest, and then I'll tell you what's going on.
Well, a disclaimer is saying that somewhere along the line in my life, I've lied, and so that whatever I say tonight, it can't come back on me, you know, from the government or something.
But since I've already done that, we can go ahead.
A friend of mine came up tonight and told me what had happened at the courthouse today, and he said it was a very pathetic situation.
According to him, Richard Anderson, the magistrate in the 10th District Court, did a terrible job of trying to get this thing out in the open.
Him and Sweitzer immediately got into this verbal exchange back and forth.
And what the judge Anderson doesn't understand that in common law, which is different from his Admiralty Court, is that the common law people get their powers from their own people, which was the people in the background, the seven men, the seven freemen who were in the back of the courthouse.
Well, then, before all right, before you get going, I really do want to ask a question, and that is, the militia of Montana and the Freemen, I understand, there's not exactly been a lot of love loss between them.
Or am I wrong?
And is there a lot of support for them in the militia of Montana?
So if you don't understand something, you know, you have to just throw it in because I want to give it to you the way that he gave it to me.
First of all, when Mr. Schweitzer and the judge Richard Anderson got into it, they got into a technical wording situation.
And of course, the common law does not have anything at all close to resemble what the law that the judge was using, the court system that they were using.
And one of the things that the common law does, they have to ask the people who are in the back of the court, who are their peers, if it's all right to do certain things.
And it required them to nod or say yes and no.
And during this, the first man to be kicked out was Dan Peterson's son, who happened to be the biggest guy there.
When he was nodding, they must have decided that the judge had to get back control of the court, so he started throwing these people out.
The first one to go was Dan Peterson's son, Dan, whose mother happens to be in the building under siege at this time.
And so he got thrown out, and then my friend, he was nodding, and pretty soon six FBI agents who were in the courtroom, I guess there was about 100 of them in the courtroom, giving him all kind of bad looks and stuff, they come over and immediately escorted, physically escorted my friend out of the courtroom.
The other friend of mine who is named who has the one that you were talking about earlier who had been taken from the Gallatin County Jail or thrown into Gallant County Jail for not paying his driver's license or not having a driver's license and stuff, he was on the way over to well, he was headed east and the Livingston Highway Patrol picked him up and somewhere between the time that the Highway Patrol picked him up and the court hearing yesterday, he got the hell beat out of him.
I'm not sure if he got a broken arm or not, but that's what I've heard.
And then in the courtroom today, also again when they handled the same man out who had been negligent on the traffic tickets, they beat the hell out of him in the courtroom.
What I understand is they grabbed him and there's a little room somewhere adjacent to the court, the actual courtroom, and they took him in there, and that's where they beat him up.
Now, one of the things that let me go through here, and one of the biggest things is they were never told what the charges were doing this whole thing today.
First, they were told that it was for issuing fake money, then later the government changed it to a bad chick, which is two completely different charges.
What they're concerned about, the Freemen are really concerned about, is that Schweitzer, when he goes, he's going to be obviously going to go to jail for this thing.
unidentified
They're afraid that he's going to get knocked off.
And the people, the Malaysia people, my people that I've been talking to, the big concern is that we, as a group of Montanans and also as Malaysia people, we feel that we should have someone over in Jordan watching what's going on because we think they're going to pull back the newspaper and the publishers and stuff, and then they're going to take down that farmhouse.
And there are 18 people in it, and there are children in it.
And so what we are afraid of is there will be another Waco.
It would be your view that they have every right to be holed up as they are and not be bothered no matter what they do because they are a law unto themselves, correct?
I believe that common law, which goes back to the Magna Carta, when we get this developed a little bit more and more people understand the common law, they will understand that these people have perfected this.
And my advice to anybody that's in the ⁇ you know, that has responsibilities against these people to be very careful and not to go against their constitutional rights, because what has happened is they will put a lien against you.
If you go against the constitutional rights, like the sheriff in this county has found out, and some of the police officers and the judge who wouldn't allow one man, a constitutional jury last week, I went to that.
I attended that, and the judge would not allow this man to be represented.
I know that he had gone up there to try to Work up some kind of a deal whereby it would relieve the tensions in the community, and he wanted to find a way to negotiate with the Freeman.
And I think what happened then beyond that is that, and there's still quite a few freemen sprinkled around that aren't necessarily part of this compound.
But at this point, it has grown into, I believe, a volatile situation.
There was a piece in a paper the other day.
They had someone in Indiana or in the Midwest somewhere who was a licensed arms dealer had received an order from these gentlemen for the list was unbelievable.
They had it in the paper, and I wish it had it in front of me because it had tens of thousands of rounds of ammunition and anti- Okay, well, the word is out they are very heavily armed.
That's confirmed by the mainstream press and by other people.
The FBI is certainly there, and that's federal.
Look here.
There's always choices in life.
Even if you owe the IRS money, even if you're in debt, there continue to be choices in life.
And you don't have to choose to be holed up in a farmhouse somewhere or a compound, armed to the teeth, ready for a personal Armageddon.
You just don't have to do that.
There are other choices in life.
There is bankruptcy.
There's going out to get another job.
There's going out to get into another career field.
There is life generally.
And life is not an easy path.
Nobody ever said it was going to be a rose garden.
It is not.
So there are choices.
And I disagree that these people have been forced into a situation where they have no choice left.
They do have a choice.
Every step of the way.
They've got a choice to walk out now and have this end peaceably.
As far as I'm concerned, when I look at this situation, law enforcement has been very, very patient.
In fact, maybe a little too much so for my taste, but very patient up until now.
And I would like to prevent this becoming a cause celeb.
In other words, all the anti-government, anti-tax, anti-driver's license, anti-people joining in with these people and having some sort of horrible incident.
Volatile, the caller said.
Well, yes, it is very volatile right now.
But they're making choices.
As we speak every minute, they've got an opportunity to make a choice.
And right now, their choice is to stay holed up, armed to the teeth, ready for a personal Armageddon.
And eventually it will no doubt come.
Listen, a quick word about my book.
I wrote a book, you know, a lot of you don't know because I know there's an awful lot of new listeners out there.
I wrote a book called The Art of Talk.
And I wrote it to be, and I was bluntly honest.
I was really, really bluntly honest.
And I guess maybe too much so for some.
Because I have a lot of people who won't talk to me now.
And one person who bought the book returned to me.
I got it today.
She said, I'm a Christian and I cannot abide the kind of behavior you wrote about in there.
And you have said more than once that you are a free and accepted Mason.
And that you are 99th degree.
I am too a mason.
I bet you're not 99th degree, though.
Well, I'm 32nd.
But what I was calling is, I was wondering, if I faxed you a copy of my dues cards for Scottish Rite, Blue, you know, my Blue Lodge, and I belong to the Shrine.
Yes.
Would you send me some info?
Because I've been told there is no degrees higher than 33rd.
Well, of course you've been told that.
And if what you say is true, you could be able to send me some info.
The party calling said there never can be a third-party candidate, and that the powers that be in the two big parties will always suppress and destroy anybody who would be a third-party candidate, which is baloney.
It came to me from the elections office of our state at which a legal official for Mr. Perot had actually gone to our state, not to me, wanting to change the name of the No Party Party, in fact, to the Reform Party.
You know, people are wondering about this man, but it says to me that it's very obvious that he plans on running when he has his legal department in Dallas doing something.
And basically what the state said is that the party name could be changed, but it would have to be authorized by the no party parties bylaws.
Ms. Peggy Patrick of the legal department of the Reform Party asked if the name of Alaska's limited political party called the No Party Party could be changed to the Reform Party.
All right, now I think I've got your story straight.
I wouldn't worry too much about it.
If you look, and there was a big argument on Brinkley about this over the weekend, if you look carefully at the exit polling information after the last election, Perot is one candidate who took equally from both parties.
In fact, Ed equally.
And that's very cautious, careful, exhaustive exit polling that determined that.
There are a lot of people out there who want to constantly say Perot is the person that got Bill Clinton elected.
That's absolute garbage.
Koki Roberts made that argument very convincingly last week.
The exit polling showed that Ross Perot drew equally from both parties.
Ross Perot is not the one that either party needs to really worry about, in my opinion.
There are two people to worry about as spoilers.
One of them is Pat Buchanan.
The man has several choices to make.
The other is Ralph Nader.
He too has choices to make.
I would presume that in Ralph Nader's mind, he would much rather see Bill Clinton than Bob Dole.
There is a significant possibility that in California, a key state, one that Clinton must have, Ralph Nader would siphon off just enough votes to give it to Bob Dole.
There is an even greater possibility that Pat Buchanan, if he walks away, which he darn well might, would siphon off enough votes to put Bill Clinton back into the White House.
So I wouldn't worry about Ross Perot.
He will take roughly equally as he did last time from both parties.
The ones to watch, believe me, are Pat Buchanan and Ralph Nader.
Guess what I'm going to do right now?
I've had enough debates.
You've heard enough about what's going on in Montana.
What I want right now are two people.
We're going to have a debate.
A person number one should be somebody who would take the side of the free men, who thinks the free men are doing just the right thing.
And they are declaring themselves, in effect, a law unto themselves.
They're declaring themselves to be a law unto themselves, and somebody who believes that is correct.
In other words, I want somebody who believes in what the free men are doing.
Call me at Area Code 702-727-1222.
I want a free man supporter at Area Code 702-727-1222.
Somebody who's going to argue their case who believes in what they're doing.
If that's you, call me now.
And I'm about to screen call, so you'll be wasting your money if you call for any other reason.
I want a free man supporter, 702-727-1222.
Then on any other line other than that, I want a person who would argue against what the free men are doing, who believe, basically, as that Faxer did a little while ago, that they are cry babies, misbehaving children.
And we'll get what's coming to them.
And I will screen calls until I get the two people I want, and we will have a debate.
All right, we're ready to go.
It was that fast.
I've got a good audience.
I really do have a good audience.
And I also have an absolutely genuine person on the line here.
But my point was, if you remember Waco, the government, and this is true in Ruby Ridge also, the government, at the start of a conflagration, comes out, grabs the media, tells them a plethora of lies, and then years later, after the entry that says they're telling the truth is consummated, we find out the truth and what the government says turns out to be a lie.
Well, I can't, I'm not sure we can say that with any certainty.
unidentified
I think we probably get half-truths from both sides.
Why don't we go back 10,000 years to the Cave Men?
Wait a minute.
You're making the case that there's several laws in the United States.
There's a Constitution that everything.
I'll give you a chance to talk here.
You're saying that there's several laws and that these patriots are going out and researching these old archaic laws and that somehow those laws are bad, but the government-I'm not saying they're bad.
I'm just saying that they're bringing up some kind of foundation that really isn't relevant to today.
I know that people say the same thing about the Constitution, but I also look at that as if it's just a-have you researched their side.
Have you opened up the books and seen what they have read?
There's nobody that they answer to other than themselves.
Let's take your case there.
They make their own money, correct?
From what I hear, well, I don't, you know, they pass something out, some negotiable instrument that somehow people accept as being worth something, and it turns out to be worthless.
And you say that money out there.
You're saying this in your own words, and you say that's bad, and you say that's false, and you can't do it.
If they took a loan out against their property and that loan was secured by the property and they defaulted on the loan, supposedly, I don't know how it is in Montana, but in the loan document, it states what's going to happen if you default.
And if they signed it and agreed to it, and then they defaulted.
We apply them, and they're denied every single time, and the judges know what they're doing.
Now, where's the anarchy?
Is there anarchy in obeying laws, and if I find a law, that the law should work, or is anarchy judges taking a certain class of people that have found the law and denying it?
Because everything you're saying is based upon whether, in fact, that law is in fact there.
Okay, let me know that it does.
I've got to think that 250 million or 300 million people, I don't know how many people are in here of the ones that vote.
Okay, if we are, if that many people are fooled, hold on.
But the point is, when you work and you buy into the American system and all of a sudden you're poor, I mean, where did the term, the working poor, come from?
Let me pass by a couple terms to you.
The Rust Belt, the X generation, the lesser generation, the hourglass society.
I think it's our overwhelming emphasis on money and not on the simple.
There's a leak in the American ship, and our wealth ⁇ we're the richest nation in the cosmos, and our wealth is going someplace, but it's not going back to the middle class.
That we know.
I saw Steven Spielberg and company out here, what I like to say, extort the citizens of California out of tens of millions of dollars.
So he put his plan here so he could put some people to work here.
I don't know if you've got a lot, and you do 30 because we had a gentleman that got a ticket for he turned on his turn signal, but he didn't turn it on exactly 100 feet before the turn.
Look, I'm sorry, but I just really can't follow that at all.
There are laws.
Yes, you're supposed to signal sufficiently before you make a turn.
This is to prevent somebody from bumping into you.
Or conversely, it is to prevent somebody coming in the opposite direction from banging into you.
Now, I realize it is a letter of a law.
You're also not supposed to make what are called rolling stops, which is not really a stop at all.
It means you roll up to a stop sign.
You kind of observe or think there is nobody coming in the opposite direction, so you don't stop.
You keep going.
You get a ticket.
Tough.
Those are the rules of the road.
Thank God there are rules of the road.
There's enough people getting slaughtered out there right now.
You know, if everybody went to court and argued that, well, I turned on my turn signal.
Well, when the law says you should have had it on 100 feet earlier to protect the lives of either people behind you or people coming in the opposite direction, then damn it, that's the law.
And I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I don't have a problem with that.
Under what circumstances can I not be arrested when I'm following the law?
How about that?
See, that's the problem I've got with these so-called, put it in quotes, patriot groups.
Everything is taken out to the absolute extreme.
Well, there's a reason for the law.
There's a reason why you're supposed to signal 100 feet before you turn.
There's a reason that you're not supposed to go rolling through stop signs.
And in each case, it does not necessarily include just your welfare.
You know, I challenge this whole concept of I'm a patriot.
I don't have to follow the laws of this land.
By God, they're not constitutional.
Why should I signal 100 feet before I turn?
I am a law unto myself.
We are a law unto ourselves.
We don't have to do that kind of thing.
It's not constitutional.
If I want to roll through stop signs, I'm an individual.
I make that choice because I am the law.
What a bunch of crap.
I'm sorry, but I believe that.
What a bunch of absolute unadulterated crap.
There are laws and rules that are made for the safety and welfare of the people that are ministered to by the elected representatives of the people.
And you may not like it, but that's the way it is.
This is not a pure democracy.
It is a republic, a representative republic.
And if you don't like it, then don't pick up a gun.
Go pick up a ballot.
Go find yourself somebody to lobby.
Get a bunch of people together.
Get some money.
Get some power.
Change what you don't like.
But I just can't abide this.
You know, I'm a patriot.
I make up my own rules.
What's a patriot?
Well, thankfully, he had at least admitted, why, you can be a patriot if you follow the rules and pay your taxes.
They want to act like I'm not going to call them public.
There's one in this city that I know of that I will call a public servant a police officer because when I was harassed two times on a bicycle, and now I have my Mark V Continental parked in my backyard because they're trying to steal it.
I don't know where you're going with that, and it's too bad you couldn't become calm and quiet enough so that we could approach it one thing at a time and find out what you were really talking about.
But I don't think you knew what you were talking about, sir.
And I wanted to say that, first off, are you a person who would advocate the replacing of a government based on law with one based on force and violence?
We rejected taxation without representation is what we rejected.
And that's why we had a revolution.
That's why we rebelled against English law.
And then we wrote our own constitution.
Our own constitution.
So forget England.
Let's begin at the beginning of what we are now.
And we are still a representative democracy.
We are a republic.
See, this is what worries the hell out of me about what's going on out there right now.
There are people running around thinking they are the law.
The law is not constitutional.
Law doesn't apply to them.
They are the law.
There's nobody that has any right to tell me that I've got to turn on a turn signal hundred feet before I turn.
Screw them.
I'm doing it my way.
Well, the laws and the regulations, the laws enumerated and the regulations under them are there for not just your safety, but for the other guys' safety as well.
About, well, it was probably over 3,000, but not everybody got in.
I've got a lot of people up there.
I know.
I was actually able to sign for about, I think, 2,100 and some odd people.
And that had me signing from 12 noon until 8.30 at night, sir.
Oh, boy.
I didn't quit until 8.30 at night.
So what the people who got the doors closed on them did not understand were the hundreds and hundreds of people that were still inside when that occurred.
And that kept me going straight on without break, except once.
unidentified
You were almost up to you when you took your first break.
And what I do know is that no one answered for that, and there's still innocent people in jail.
And I think that we've really got to make sure in this country that the people that we elect and hold power regardless of where they are, and that includes a precedent.
If they break the law, they must answer to it also.