Art Bell and Richard Hoagland tease unreleased photos on Hoagland’s site, while callers debate conspiracy theories tied to Sarah McLendon—criticized by the Washington Post as a "kook"—and the Montana Freeman standoff, where Leroy Schweitzer (57) and Daniel Peterson (53) were arrested amid fraud and militia claims. The episode shifts to same-sex marriage, with callers like Ryan (a Christian homosexual) and Harry Browne clashing over biblical grounds, while Russell Targ insists state recognition should require societal benefits, sparking questions about whether all marriages face equal scrutiny. Meanwhile, Britain’s mad cow crisis—150,000 infected cows, two human cases—contrasts with rising global TB deaths (3M last year), and callers link sperm count declines to plastics or HAARP experiments. Bell concludes by highlighting unresolved tensions between freedom, morality, and science in modern debates. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert and the great American Southwest.
I bid you all good evening or good morning as the case may be and welcome to Coast to Coast AM Live Talk Radio for another week right here.
The only place where you get live, unscreened, unpredictable, sometimes unreliable, but always surprising talk radio.
Lots to talk about this morning, an awful lot going on out there.
I'd like to welcome KMSLAM in Great Falls, Montana.
Welcome to the network.
As the numbers just keep on climbing, good to have you along.
They're 1450 on the dial in Great Falls, Montana.
Great to have you all.
Now, let me see.
What is going on?
Well, at the half-hour mark, coming out of the half-hour mark, I'm going to have information for you that I know you want on Richard Hoagland and some new stuff.
So hang on for that.
I can't really give it out till the bottom of the hour.
But it's big news coming for those of you that have been waiting.
Art has given many varied reasons in the past for not showing up to work.
Among others, he said that his back hurt, or he was too tired from signing books, or got sick.
That's not really true.
Or got sick from eating a barbecued beef sandwich.
That's true.
Or how about a rabbit ate my wiring?
That one was true too.
Well, here are the top 10 excuses he has for missing yet another day of work on Friday, last Friday.
10. Art naturally did not read any of the instructions, especially the safety ones, before using his new shopsmith to construct a new cat bed for Comet.
Let's just say he won't have to worry about his sore thumb anymore.
9. While looking for the Comet, Art accidentally tripped and fell into one of the spring-fed pools in the desert and discovered a new species of the pup fish.
Before he could get out, they devoured the flesh off his right hand clear down to the bone.
8. Art got a big mad cow disease attack after eating that burger at his book signing.
7. After successfully suppressing or downplaying media coverage of the Richard Hoagland press conference, NASA emissaries paid a visit to the one media person who was not cooperating.
They frowned heavily on him.
6. A fan who was locked out of the convention center when at 4 o'clock he left his place in line after 1 hours to go outside for a smoke made sure that Portland would be Art's only book signing.
5. After feeling too much information was getting out on the real purposes of the HART project, a high-frequency beam was bounced off the ionosphere on Friday onto a remote desert location.
Art got a real charge out of that.
4. Comet is actually the reincarnated spirit of the squirrel that Art once killed when he was a kid, came back to seek revenge, ooh, at Carnage.
3. After registering his brand new bomb at the police station, Charlie went to Prump to show it to Art.
Unfortunately, an argument concerning politics ensued, and the trigger was detonated by the high decibel level of Charlie's voice.
2.
Intrigued by Donnell's idea, Art, the electronic genius, modified his select antenna so he could amplify his brainwaves.
A slight miscalculation resulted in the frying of all the circuits in his head.
His famous last words were, I guess I didn't think it through.
And the number one excuse Art will give for not showing up to work on Friday is, following up on the first confirmed sighting of Il Chupacabra in the U.S., Linda Howe found Art on his porch with puncture wounds in his right hand and all the blood drained out of his lifeless body.
Comet then was seen sitting in Art's chair in the studio, staring into the videon camera with a wide Cheshire cat smile on his face and cleaning blood off his whiskers.
Till the Comet Do Us Part Steve in Portland.
Well, actually, the real reason I was not here was indeed my hand.
What happened, so that you all might know, Friday, Thursday night, Friday morning, during the show, my hand, which I thought I had under control, became out of control and began to get larger and larger and larger due to my cat bites, and the area of red began to spread wildly.
So I went to the doctor, who promptly gave me shots, which still hurt, pills, various assorted medicines.
And I've been dipping my hand in hot near-boiling water for a couple of days, and it now appears under control, having receded to the area of the original bite wounds.
And so there you have it.
I was at a bit of a temperature and, you know, typical serious infection.
But I was smart enough to go to the doctor, and it is taken care of.
I'll be right back.
Prime Minister John Major in England wants the entire ban lifted in Europe on British beef.
I don't think he's going to get it.
The government virtually has decided in England they shall do nothing.
They've had 150,000-plus cows infected with mad cow disease.
McDonald's in Britain has taken hamburgers off the menu.
One can presume in 660 outlets there.
They only can get fish now, I guess.
Maybe some morning eggs and stuff.
Eight people are dead.
They talked about possibly killing all 11 million cows, but they're not going to do it.
Today, two more people were diagnosed.
The Labor Party is saying this is a reckless disregard for public health.
Here in the U.S., officials have decided to step up inspections.
And again, at the top of the category of famous last words, which I would love to continue, have to be, it cannot possibly jump species.
Here in the U.S., we essentially have confirmed that, in fact, it has jumped species.
The British government, concerned no doubt, about the economic ramifications of having to kill that many cows, has basically bravely decided to do nothing.
And I think it is a mistake and one they're going to have to eat.
But we'll see.
Now while we're on the subject of disease, there is TB.
Thought to be a disease of the past, it is now anything but.
Now in fact, it is a worldwide epidemic, three million dead from TB last year.
Those are the highest recorded numbers in U.S. history.
A World Health Organization spokesman said the following, listen to this, quote, It's going to slaughter people by the tens of millions in the next decade.
That's pretty serious.
He said, look, we're only a few steps away from breeding enough drug-resistant TB for it to become a global threat, even in developed countries.
It's airborne, and everybody who breathes air should be concerned.
That is the World Health Organization, not Art Bell, the WHO.
Present estimates are 50 million people worldwide are infected by drug-resistant tuberculosis.
So the march continues, disease and plague revisiting us.
Mira Savino's depiction of a bubble-headed call girl and Kevin Spacey's portrayal of a crippled con artist earned them Oscars for best supporting roles at Monday Night's Academy Awards.
Servina won for her role in Woody Allen's comedy Mighty Aphrodite, while Spacey was honored for the crime thriller, The Usual Suspects.
And I saw that just the other day.
If you have not yet seen The Usual Suspects, I highly recommend it.
My wife and I sat there after watching it saying, boy, you know, this one really ought to win.
And it did.
He was incredible in that role.
I thought it was an excellent movie and deserving of the award.
Now politics.
Pat Buchanan to press issues, it says.
With Bob Dole virtually assured of the Republican presidential nomination challenger, Buchanan is looking to influence the party's platform.
Buchanan says he plans to press three main issues at the GOP convention down in San Diego this summer.
Opposition to abortion.
That's in the platform.
Cracking down on illegal immigration and the decline of middle-class living standards.
Buchanan spending the day in California, ahead of that state's primary tomorrow, so Pat's out in California.
Now, he's not ruling out the possibility of a third-party run.
And that will indeed be a fine old mess.
A dole over the weekend on Meet Press said, if Pat Buchanan is a, quote, good Republican, end quote, he will without precondition endorse me.
Well, it looks like there are going to be conditions, and I doubt there is going to be an endorsement.
There might be.
What is a good Republican?
That's a little hard to figure these days.
Buchanan said, look, which way is the Republican Party going, to corporate America or to middle America?
He said, if I leave the, in essence, if I leave the Republican Party, the analogy he used was Ronald Reagan's, that the party, in fact, would have left him.
Others charge it is Buchanan going left.
Buchanan for high tariffs.
Buchanan against free trade.
Buchanan criticizing corporate America, and last week, Buchanan coming out in favor of the stryker replacement bill.
Then, of course, there is Ralph Nader on the left, who will run under or above the Green Party banner.
The Green Party is very liberal, believes in same-sex marriages, and we'll do some on that here in a few minutes.
But he is not for that.
He's going to possibly take advantage of their banner and run as president.
The White House is not happy about that.
Ralph Nader is likely to be Bob Dole's Buchanan.
In other words, Ralph Nader is very likely going to take votes from Bill Clinton.
And people are running around saying, oh my, oh my, oh my, could Ralph Nader cost Bill Clinton California?
Indeed, it could.
If Pat Buchanan, Ross Perot, and Ralph Nader all run through the end game, what effect do you expect on the election?
That's my question.
What effect do you expect on the election if they all run?
Tobacco is very much in the news.
This week, with David Brinkley doing a big thing on that.
Tobacco companies, once revered, rich, smoking, once regarded as suave, now under assault from all directions.
The illegal direction being one of them, lawyers lined up about six deep to sue tobacco companies, more states contemplating joining in.
Can you imagine trying to go to a doctor to get a prescription for your cigarettes every week?
Having to put up with a typical doctor lecture about smoking before you get your smokes.
Forcing the companies to advertise against their own product.
The FDA may regulate tobacco as a narcotic is regulated.
And I thought Cokie Roberts had it right.
If they decide it is, in effect, a drug, nicotine, and it needs to be regulated, how can the FDA do anything other than ban cigarettes?
Shannon Lucid, our American astronaut, to spend 142 days on Mir, the space station.
As a matter of fact, so what we've got here is two Russian guys and one American woman to be together for five months.
The Russians, on hearing she was coming, said, good, women like to clean.
And I'm surprised she still went after hearing that, frankly.
San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown, joined by members of the city's governing board of supervisors, presided, as get this, 175 gay and lesbian couples symbolically tied the knot at City Hall today.
Brown told the couples, quote, I now pronounce you domestic partners.
You may consummate the relationship, end quote.
San Francisco today became the first U.S. city to recognize gay partnerships with a civil ceremony.
Hawaii may be the first state, unless the party can say why it shouldn't be, unless the state, that is, can say why it shouldn't be, to legalize gay marriages in Toro.
What would you say?
What reason, in other words, the Hawaiian Supreme Court has told the state of Hawaii, either you give us a reason why it should not be, or prepare to legalize gay marriage.
And it is widely thought that if that battle is lost and gay marriage is legalized in Hawaii, other states are going to follow.
So there you have it.
Maybe you can come up with a reason.
What is the reason?
Why would you say that gay couples should not be allowed to get married?
What reason would you give?
And as a continuing follow-up to this cat problem with buttered bread, Art, when a cat is dropped, it always lands on its feet.
When toast is dropped, it always lands with the buttered side facing down.
It is proposed to strap buttered toast to the back of a cat.
The two, it is said, will hover, spinning inches above the ground.
With a giant buttered cat array, a high-speed monorail could easily link New York with Chicago.
Here is something that ran on the front page of the Washington Post.
Push to develop deep space planet finder telescope poses challenge to scientists.
In other words, they are preparing now to look deep into space.
It's a program that is yet years away.
And look for life on Earth-like planets with telescopes.
Interesting.
And I've got quite a bit more, but not quite a bit more time.
So let me take care of a couple of things here, and we'll get back to it.
It's going to be an open line kind of night.
Anything you want to talk about is fair game.
Let me tell you about just one more item, and that is an alleged standoff going on now in Montana.
Earlier today, I had heard that those who call themselves free men had been arrested in Montana, that the arrests had gone essentially without incident.
And I believe that is the case regarding those who have been arrested.
Now I am hearing, and I don't want to, I've got nothing on this other than that which was passed on to me earlier tonight, that there are a group of so-called free men or their associates who are holed up in a house.
Could this lead to some kind of Waco incident?
It might.
Are there special forces on the scene?
There may be.
That's what the rumor says.
So exactly what I was afraid of may in fact be unfolding in Montana.
Those of you with information on this, I would appreciate any input you can give.
And we'll kind of follow the story throughout the night.
The FBI, no doubt, on the scene, and possibly, as I said, special forces.
How many people are involved?
I don't know.
It may be quite a number.
We will continue to track this story and try and bring the information to you as we are able.
unidentified
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
He had a four-hour, I say again, four-hour meeting with Sarah McLendon.
He's going back to the press club at her invitation this coming Wednesday, where he will meet with a group of reporters for an extended period of time presenting all the evidence.
But that's not it.
I am now prepared to do what I promised you I would do.
The photographs Richard Hoagland promised, including the Russian photographs that were not presented at the news conference, are as of this moment, according to my webmaster, Keith, now up on my webpage.
Now, what I'm afraid of is it's going to go into absolute utter gridlock the moment I say this, but I guess that's all we can do.
So the photographs that were promised by Richard Hoagland are now on my web page.
Now, how do you get to that?
You go, my webpage is easy to get to if you have a web browser of some sort.
Just put in the name Art Bell, A-R-T-B-E-L-L.
It'll get you there.
If you must put in the entire address, put in www.artbell.com.
Actually, you're supposed to put in the http://forward/slash www.artbell.com.
But the promised photographs are there as of about five minutes ago.
They were dispensed by Richard Hoagland and have been uploaded by my webmaster, and they should be there for your downloading pleasure.
Now, I have not yet seen them, so you will see them before I do.
They were actually uploaded to the web page during the period of time that I sat here talking to you in the first half hour.
So there you go.
And also, I want to thank the people that provided the IRC chat channel.
I got a facts.
It was a bit of anarchy that went up there.
That's the nature of IRC.
But I do want to thank them, and they did a hell of a lot of work trying to get the log of the press conference up, which they did, I might add.
No other medium is able to provide the kind of live, interactive forum that IRC does.
And so it is good.
It was clogged up with some people making uncalled-for remarks, but that's always the case with IRC.
In the meantime, ladies and gentlemen, IRC has been a big help to us, and I want to thank all of those involved, and particularly Buzz up there.
He calls himself Buzz the Radio Spy.
Thanks, Buzz.
I appreciate all the help you gave.
And as a result of that and all that went on, there will now be more from Richard Hoagland.
Sarah McLendon has embraced him, and she is sort of the, I guess Sarah is the queen of the news corps.
Would that be fair?
And so back to the press club, he goes, In the meantime, the photographs you wanted are now on my webpage.
So go get them.
www.artbell.com and let me know what you think, including the Russian photographs that did not get presented at the press conference because of time.
Well, 360 degrees is what it looks like to me as far as this guy's attitude is concerned.
And it amazed me because, like I said, he in the past pretty much embraced the gentleman.
So I was like, who's finally got to this guy?
Very strange.
Also, in reference to Prediction 96 I made for the year 96, there's an article coming out in Fate magazine, April's edition 1996, from Father Thomas Culp, who is writing an extended article on UFOs, the demonic conspiracy.
And this gentleman states in his article that Christians should not be listening to anything concerning UFOs, should not read anything, that if you read your Bible, that the space between earth and heaven was opened up for demons and demons only.
And how can a man and a man leave their families, come together, and become one flesh?
If you attribute your, you know, this is the reason why I believe there are so many divorces, is because God is not in that marriage.
There is something, it's like the mortar between the two bricks.
Now, how can that spiritual coming together of a man and a woman that bring their self to become one flesh, how can that possibly even begin to happen between a man and a man and a woman and a woman?
And you know, I have a warning about this, and you mark my word.
I feel like, you know, how much more can something like this that God has created that man continuously being evil or governments passing laws to slap him in the face, the creator of this nation, continuously slapping in the face without some type of judgment happening like another pestilence besides AIDS?
Yeah, they really let loose on Richard, the Washington Post did.
And when I talked to Richard earlier today, what he said was, you know, why would they do that on the front page of the Washington Post?
If what he's doing is so insignificant or kookified as to be not worthy of a response, why would they blast him on the front page of the Washington Post?
As he said, there has to have been some sort of nerve touched out there, and I agree with that.
He knows he can't get it this year, and I think he'll wind up backing Dole to remain a good Republican, hoping to get the Republican nomination in 2000, assuming Dole doesn't get elected this year.
Well, there's lots of ways that things can develop.
One is Buchanan makes a speech at the convention, but ends up backing Bob Dole, remaining in the party.
Or he can leave the party, diminishing Bob Dole's chances of ever getting into the White House, taking probably about 15%, I would guess, with him, and that would just kill Dole.
The other is that Ralph Nader will run in California.
Well, nationally, but in California, taking California away from Clinton, giving it to Dole.
And I think that if Ross Perot runs, he will take equally, but only in the single digits, from both candidates.
So the real unknowns are Buchanan and our friend, the consumer advocate, Ralph Nader.
unidentified
I'll be surprised if Nader shows up very much at all.
It is going to be interesting to see how all of this unfolds.
And as I said, with all of these wildcards, they are the ones that probably will determine what occurs.
Pat Buchanan has got a big choice to make.
A big choice.
And if I were advising him, which I am not, I would advise him soon to make a conciliatory speech at the convention, to remain in the mainstream of the Republican Party, and to set his sights on 2,000, as this caller just suggested.
We'll see.
We'll see.
It would be interesting to hear from the Buchanan die-hard supporters.
Are you still prepared to do exactly what he says?
In other words, if he leaves the party, and it could happen, if he perceives Bob Dole as moving to the left in terms of the vice presidential candidate he chooses, the positions he takes, if it turns out to be a big fight in San Diego over abortion and other things, it's going to hurt Bob Dole.
No, I haven't heard the things she said on the Michael Jackson show.
What did she say?
unidentified
Well, she used to say all kinds of things about Ronald Reagan and about basically she was a conservative basher with all kinds of conspiracy theories, none of which ever like what?
Well, I cannot give you the specifics, but I do remember every time she'd be on, it would be something totally outrageous.
It would be followed up, and there would be no truth to anything that she would allege.
So they gave me shots here and there, if you know what I mean.
And all kinds of shots.
And I've got pills, and the infection has receded to a more localized area.
And I seem to be alive.
The cat which wrought all this on me is living now in our bathroom, door shut, cat box, food and such.
And I go in every now and then.
I talk sweetly to it.
It goes, that's closest I can come to the sound it makes.
And I'm going to try and make friends with it slowly but surely.
And I'll probably get torn up again.
But, you know, I've got so many pills and so many drugs in my body now that what can it do?
We're talking about a number of things.
Number one, I want you to know once again, with regard to Richard Hoagland, two developments, maybe more.
He had a four-hour meeting with Sarah McLendon, the Dean-us, Duchess, I guess, of the Press Corps.
And he's going back to the press club Wednesday, and there's a big meeting set up, and he will do an entire presentation.
Moreover, the photographs promised went up about 30 minutes ago on my webpage, including the Russian photograph.
People said, well, he doesn't have it.
Yes, he does.
And now we have it.
And it's up on the webpage if you want to see it.
That is www.artbell.com.
And we will also endeavor to get these photographs for our newsletter.
We'll see what can be done.
So there's a very great deal going on about all that, AP stories.
Washington Post wrote a story blasting him.
And in the same story on a separate subject, blasted Sarah McLendon.
She told him he should wear it as a badge of honor.
We'll see where all of this goes.
At any rate, the promised photographs are up there now.
So go get them.
And then let me know what you think.
Obviously, I have not seen them yet.
They went on the webpage at about 11.30, and so I would not have seen them yet, obviously.
I'm on the air.
We're talking about what's going on in Montana.
There's been an arrest of two of the so-called free men in Montana.
The USA Radio Network reports that indeed there is now a standoff underway at a farmhouse, a Montana farmhouse, and any input anybody's got on what's going on would be appreciated.
Whether this is going to turn into some sort of tragic incident or not at this hour, we don't know.
There may be some special forces as well involved.
They will neither confirm nor deny that.
And we hardly know what's going on.
But that's all I know.
Two arrested without incident, and apparently friends and compatriots of these two now holding off the feds, and we'll see what happens.
Same-sex marriages.
There was a ceremony earlier in the day in San Francisco in which a number of same-sex people were, well, San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown, joined by members of the city's governing board of supervisors, presided as about 175 gay and lesbian couples symbolically tied the knot at City Hall.
Brown told the couples, quote, I now pronounce you domestic partners.
You may consummate the relationship, end quote.
San Francisco today became the first U.S. city to recognize gay partnerships with a civil ceremony.
Now, Hawaii may be the first state to legitimize same-sex marriages.
The Hawaiian Supreme Court has ordered the state to come up with some reason why they should not be ordered to do so.
So far, they have not come up with any reason.
A young lady called me last hour and said, Art, it's a ceremony before God.
That's the reason.
But in fact, in many cases, as you know, marriage is a civil contract, a civil ceremony.
So I would simply ask you what you would say.
Why should it not be allowed?
Here is one entrant by facts.
Art, same-sex marriages give twice the chance to tap insurance on the job.
Why stop with two of the same-sex?
Why not three or four?
Why not polygamy?
And I wonder how you would answer that.
I wonder if that would constitute any sort of legal argument about why it should not be.
And then this, Art is the anti-cigarette lobby filled with hypocrisy or what?
Pharmacies in the Kansas City area have removed all cigarettes off the shelves in the event the FDA should declare cigarettes are a delivery system of a narcotic nicotine.
The only way for anyone to legally purchase tobacco containing nicotine would be filled by that same pharmacy.
Is that hypocrisy or what?
That's from David, I guess, in Kansas City.
So there you've got it.
That's kind of in a nutshell what we're talking about.
Lots and lots of things.
In Britain, a mad cow disease spreading two more human beings diagnosed with the human equivalent of mad cow disease.
The British government, led by John Major, saying they are going to do nothing, and they want the ban on British beef removed.
McDonald's serving no more hamburgers in Britain.
The Labour Party is saying that all public trust in the British government has now evaporated.
And I must tell you that if I were in Britain, I'll be damned if I'd eat a hamburger.
So I'm not sure they're going to get away with this.
Perception means a lot, and if the people perceive there that beef, ground beef particularly, is not safe, in the long run, I think they're going to have to eat their words, and they're going to have to do something major.
We had all that lovely 80-degree weather and two whole days of rain, one of them on the first day that Phoenix opened, which seven out of ten years does that anyway.
I listen to you all the time, and I was wondering, there's a couple movies that I've never heard you mentioned that I thought you might want to see sometime.
One would kind of have to do with HARP.
One would do with all this biological stuff that's going on.
It's a lot of fun to listen to, and it's kind of funny to hear people talking about all the stuff that's going on with the satellites and stuff who have no clue about it.
If you want to go up there and listen to talk shows that do nothing but talk about politics until your ears bleed.
unidentified
Yeah, well, I don't even mean that.
I mean just people who listen to the news and start talking about things like that, and it's like you just want to step in and tell them everything, but there's so much more to it.
No, I think, thank you, that affirmative action had its time and its reason and its place, and that time has long since passed.
And that America, if there is a country in the world, I was kind of impressed with something Ronald Reagan said that was replayed recently.
And I can only paraphrase it, but he said, look, you can go to France and live, or you can go to Japan and live, but you can never be French, or you can never be Japanese.
America is a place where you can come, and no matter who you are, you can be an American.
And that is ever so true, isn't it?
You can be an American.
And there is no other country like that in the world.
That is our country.
And I am proud of it.
My position for a long time, I was another thing Lady took me to task for in the letter.
She said that I'm against illegal immigration, which I am.
And she took me to task for being for legal immigration.
She wants to shut it all off.
She said, America's going to become all brown and black, Art Bell, and it's going to be your fault.
Well, immigration has always strengthened us, and I am not for shutting off legal immigration.
I am for shutting the doors to illegal immigration.
And we have every right to control our border.
This has been my position forever, for as long as I've been on the air and longer.
And it still is.
We should enforce our borders, period.
Period.
And then we have, I don't say we should stop allowing people in.
We should control the numbers and control what comes in on their backs and in their bodies.
We should not allow diseased people in.
There's lots of diseases out there that could get us.
So people should be disease-free when they come to America.
We've got enough to handle right now, thank you very much.
And we should qualify people that come to America.
There's nothing wrong with that.
Other countries do it without being called Nazis.
So I'm all for that.
And if you control illegal immigration, you control the largest numbers that are coming into this country.
Couldn't resist.
Here they are.
unidentified
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
Contents, I guess.
If I were walking in your shoes, I wouldn't worry about.
While you and your friends are wearing...
Listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast A.M. from March 25th, 1996.
Live talk radio in the nighttime because it's better.
For example, this just in, latest off the Associated Press, two leaders of an anti-government group have been arrested in Montana while negotiations continue with other members of the group hold up for more than a year at a remote farm.
The U.S. Attorney for the region declines to elaborate on the reported negotiations with members of the fugitive group known as the Freeman.
The group is heavily armed.
Authorities have held off for months on any arrest attempt to avoid a violent confrontation.
Officials say two leaders of the group, 57-year-old Leroy Schweitzer, Schweitzer, I guess it is, and 53-year-old Daniel Peterson, were arrested without incident.
They're charged now in a federal grand jury indictment, along with 10 others, in schemes involving issuance of fraudulent checks and money orders.
Officials say both also face state charges involving the advocacy of violence for political aims.
And that's as much as we know.
Sounds like the official release, but it does confirm what I said earlier.
There is a standoff going on right now.
We'll see what happens.
On same-sex marriage, I agree with the taxer on polygamy and philandering.
No reason to prohibit these if we allow gays to marry regarding rights for gay couples, especially adoption.
Does a six-month-old child have a choice whether to be adopted by a gay couple?
The kids have a right to a standard in parents.
Mike, I don't know.
We may do a debate on this very subject.
A big ceremony in San Francisco earlier today by Willie Brown, a court challenge in Hawaii that may bring same-sex marriage to all of America, unless the state of Hawaii can figure out why it should not be so.
But then, on the other hand, I appreciate your being here.
So if you have learned to sleep during the day, I do that.
And I must say, lately, I've been sleeping very soundly.
Of course, it's been a little invasive to my body.
Things have been happening to me.
You would think, wouldn't you, that somebody that generally stays at home, works at home, lives at home, would be safe.
Not me.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hello.
Hi, Arbel.
Hello.
This is Mike over in Linwood, Washington.
I've been listening to you off and on for the past couple of years due to my schedule.
But the Richard Hoagland, there are some interesting topics, and we got on the subject of ruins, or you did, I should state, and so forth.
But my question is, the chaoticness, what it would bring to the people here, what if their beliefs were on, oh, on the, well, they are, they're on the spirit side.
But what if the Bible tells us straight out about how God created us?
And, well, his words are, let us make man in our image.
As a Christian myself, evidence of such phenomenon doesn't bother me.
In chapter 6 of Genesis, it tells about the sons of God coming unto the daughters of man, and the product were giants, great men of old, men of great renown.
And that was before the time of Noah.
In other words, things were here before the written word.
I believe that may well be so, and I think there is mounting evidence of previous civilizations.
I simply choose to believe, and I do believe, based on talking with many of you, that such knowledge would be disruptive, dangerous to the current paradigm, the religious and scientific paradigm that's here right now.
And in other words, I agree with the report that Richard Hoagland disagrees with.
I agree with the report that says it would just cause terrible disruption, and I happen to believe that.
Then he goes on, gay marriages.
As a Christian, I have to leave it to between God and them to say to other Christians, get over it.
It's going to happen.
Nothing you can do about it.
In order to live in this country free, we've got to tolerate other beliefs with love.
Just as I tolerate on July 4th, when my church will salute the flag during worship and say the pledge of allegiance.
I consider it a breach of church and state, and I don't believe in doing that sort of thing, and I don't do it.
But I tolerate it and just keep loving.
Where were you this weekend?
In St. Louis, they ran Encore broadcasts.
I was afraid the mad cat disease got you.
Well, it did.
And lastly, about comets growling, my friend's cat did that to me for a whole month, and I just growled back.
Now it loves me.
That's Bruce in St. Louis.
I don't know if I'd call it a growl.
Yeah, I guess maybe it is.
I can't even simulate the sound.
But it's kind of like, stay away, sucker, or I'm going for you again.
I'm going to take another piece out of you.
I appreciated your response to the woman that just called expounding her views on marriage.
You were right on the money.
However, further explanation is necessary to my way of thinking.
First of all, I don't agree with same-sex marriages simply for the reason that it is not natural for anything or any human being to act in that manner.
I do believe in God and am firm in the belief that Christ came to this earth and died for our sins.
Having said that, I would like to say it also, the argument that marriage is not man-made or a man-made institution is not, in my opinion, correct.
I've read the Bible front to backs on several occasions.
Don't recall ever seeing a marriage ceremony set down in there.
I recall reading several of the specific do's and don'ts along with the shoulds and shouldn'ts and about the celebrations and gatherings observed by the people involved.
But no specific ceremony have I ever seen written there.
The only reason I mention all of this is now I'm writing it down.
It feels somewhat trivial.
I feel that people like the woman who was complaining about the sanctity of marriage with regard to this subject are really missing the mark by a mile.
Wrong is wrong, and no ceremony or lack thereof is going to make it right.
People search out the truth for themselves and stop relying on what people think.
Well, I can't.
This doesn't make sense.
Ultimately, you are the only one responsible, Dan.
So I'm not sure what Dan said there exactly.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Good morning.
unidentified
Hi, I have my own theory about what's causing the sperm count to drop.
I think it has to do with spirituality in a sort of way.
You know, the theory that people's health, their bodies are kept healthy by their spirit, and the spirit is fueled by some energy that comes from outside their body.
Well, I think that due to overpopulation, this spiritual energy that people draw upon is kind of wearing thin, you know, being used out.
Well, you know, we tend to attribute things to that when we don't know what it is, whether it's a sperm count or AIDS, for example, that we have no cure for.
A lot of people said AIDS was God's vengeance on the homosexuals.
And that has been true of nearly every terrible disease we've had.
Until we find a biological cause for it, we attribute it to God.
unidentified
Well, there's really nothing you can attribute to.
Poisons in the environment, I don't really think, can explain the drop in the sperm count.
Well, regarding this idea that, you know, civilization collapsed, yeah, partly, but a lot of the population is almost what you would call functionally semi-atheist.
I mean, you know, we've got evolution and pragmatics and what have you.
They also said the FBI said that the arraignment is going to be at 1 o'clock in Billings, and that the news conference is going to come off right after the arraignment.
And of course, you know, the Patriots, we don't advocate anything at all toward violence, and anybody considering this, we strongly oppose that.
Well, what is concerning me now is what has always concerned me, and that is that other militia groups will begin moving in that direction, which they probably will.
unidentified
Yes, I can't speak for any other groups, but our group is our legislator suggested that if we go to Billings, that we should take our cameras with us and do this totally peaceful and just make a, you know, let the government know that we're watching them and that any of these arrests that come out, they've got to be strictly according to the law.
And we're also concerned that there's a lot of people, government employees, that are plotting against these people unconstitutionally.
From my understanding of the Bible, and it's pretty much labeled out there pretty clearly that in God's eyes, two men being together is an abomination.
Also, one of the reasons Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of that practice become more and more pronounced, pronounced.
My feeling is somewhat of is the ripple effect of society.
The more things that you let get away, the more rules and rules that you start breaking.
And you try to it just becomes more of a ripple effect where you lose your whole semblance of civilization.
unidentified
Well, you're bringing up a whole other concept here, which is that freedom is safety.
Freedom, everything this society does to make things free is to make things safe.
Well, if you're saying that homosexuality is okay and you should be able to get married and be able to live that type of life, that's exactly what you're professing.
unidentified
I profess to be a Christian.
I also profess that marriage is not solely a religious ceremony in this country.
It is a legal thing.
And the fact is that you can get, as he said before, you can get married in a courthouse without any legal, without any religious ramifications.
You know what I'm saying?
I understand that point.
I'll go back there because that's your stronger of the two.
Well, in a perfect world, yeah, as long as we could all say, you know, they need help or whatever we could say to make us feel better to realize that it doesn't hurt us.
Maybe it hurts them, but it's not any of our business what they do to themselves as long as we're happy and just kind of love each other.
As a matter of fact, there's a lot of studies that prove that polygamy is a lot better for raising children.
Actually, the average people who go into polygamy have much higher IQs than the average citizen.
It's a better atmosphere for raising and being with children.
There's no breakdown of morals there.
I think that Christianity has kind of embedded this fear of the sex that goes on, but that's just our morbid fascination.
You just have to leave people alone.
You have to let them choose their course in life and let them live life and live our own lives and stay out of people's personal, very personal love affairs.
So when it comes down to bringing in mental retarded children because of genetic defects, that's a really tough one.
I mean, maybe there's a line that society just has to say, you cannot do this to someone.
You're a brother and sister.
You need help.
We can't hurt your love affair, but we cannot interfere.
We can't condone a marriage that may bring someone into the world that won't have as good a chance as it living as the rest of us.
Well, okay, to begin with, Anson, this is not the same-sex relationship or partnership, whatever descriptive term you want to call it, is not a part of God's gift of life.
What I'm trying to say is it always comes back to the Bible.
And they continually say, and I hear this over and over tonight, God said there should be no same-sex marriages.
God said this.
Now, the fact is, none of us quite know exactly what God said.
The only thing we know is what God's put in each of our hearts.
And I think that the one things that we can pretty much pick out of the Bible that work are the do unto others as you would have done to yourself.
Don't judge.
Basically, if God said anything, he said, don't be jerks to each other.
Just love each other.
Live and live the life I've given you.
Don't try to crawl in everyone else's lives.
Live your own and live it to the fullest.
Now, you just can't go around saying that God is going to strike these people down or that there's judgment.
Don't even hope for that.
Stay out of that because if there is a God, so help me, if there is, and I hope he is everything you've said he is, he will catch the people that are coming up into heaven that are all these little devout Christians that were like, God, I was there.
unidentified
I stomped all those gays into the dirt and I told them not to live like this.
Well, I was just making the point that I guess I was getting angry, but in a roundabout way, I was getting to the idea that God's going to judge us on our life.
And that when we, you know, I'm trying to relate to what you believe, you know, to the Bible, to his teaching.
I grew up in it very heavily, and I've come to get a very different outlook on it now.
And if you choose to, if you choose to live your life trying to tell others how to live and trying to judge them, you're wasting your time.
That's not your job.
You're just here to live.
unidentified
Wait a minute, Anson.
The minute, please.
I am not trying to tell anybody.
I'm calling just to specifically give my viewpoint on this.
Right, but you wouldn't want, you wouldn't, if somebody said, okay, we're going to vote to see if it's okay for these people to get married, you'd say, no, it's against God's law, and I'm going to vote for no.
unidentified
No, not no.
Now listen to me, Anthon.
I've been called to condemn you.
It's not for me to condemn.
I'm not going to do that.
Not me.
I do not judge.
I am just telling you my belief and that I read the Bible, I believe what God says, everything that's in that Bible is going way back to wherever.
The world's changing, and it's going to die by the wayside unless it learns to open up and love and just teach people to love.
unidentified
But that's something you need to hate.
Lanson even says that in the Bible that the church is going to fade away in the end times.
And if you are with Art Bell and read all his little notes and get his monthly newsletter and all that, and if you keep it with all the subjects that he has, the quickening.
The quickening is here.
I'm sorry.
And yes, the church will be.
I'm worried about whether people are going to use the Bible that's going to be.
And from it, on Anson's side, I seem to detect the theory that for Christianity to Survive, it will have to become the biggest tent of all, embracing homosexual marriage, embracing all that it is been taught it does not believe in.
It will have to embrace all that is said to be wrong, and anything that is done in the name of love will have to be embraced, lest Christianity will die.
Dear Art, I cannot imagine why anyone would want to get married, period.
I tried it.
I didn't like it.
But if gay people want to marry, they should have the same right of choice as any other citizen to equate gay marriages with extreme or bizarre behaviors is a reach.
That's from Liberal Sue in Illinois.
A lot of liberal calls have been coming from Illinois this morning.
I'm in a situation here as a divorced non-custodial parent.
I'm here in Spokane, Washington, and my four-year-old and my 19-month-old daughter are back with their mother and grandmother in Ohio.
There's no basis, as far as communication goes, for being able to reason with these two ladies because they cannot comprehend that children need a father and a mother.
The conversations that you've had on tonight, because I'm an insomniac, don't sleep too much, so I listen to you.
You know, it's been funny listening to people who talk a lot about God, but they don't really know God at all because they just don't believe in Christianity.
The man was making the case that Christianity is on its last legs.
To survive, he said it's going to have to embrace all that it does not embrace.
unidentified
That's right.
And I, except for a few minutes there at the break, I heard most of everything that he said.
When it comes to communicating, I need to ask your advice on how to do this with a mother of two kids who doesn't believe fathers have any rights.
She doesn't believe that if right now I'm negotiating with her for getting my son for the summer.
I don't get my daughter until summer of 97.
She left, well, I was at work.
She left Spokane here in the dead of winter back in 94.
And it's just every time I call to talk to the kids, it's a fight every time I go back there to actually visit them, either for a birthday or for Christmas.
I get my daughter for maybe 30 minutes or an hour at a time.
Well, yes, but you must have certain visitation rights.
unidentified
On paper, I do.
The thing is, the boy is registered as being from the state of Washington, and this is where this thing was handled.
They're living in Ohio under a different set of rules, and it's like you've got to buy attorneys back there.
You've got to buy attorneys here.
I know.
And I'm going back to school to get a better career in a different field so I can take better care of the kids.
And I didn't know if you've ever dealt in a situation like this.
Most women that I have met, most women who call into somebody like you, who get on the radio or get on the talk shows, their attitude is, you know, I would love to have an ex-husband that wants to take an interest in the kids.
I would love to be able to communicate and work things out.
This is an individual where it's like this was a grand master scheme and a plan to begin with way up front.
Look, she's probably manifesting her dislike, active dislike, even hatred for you, by punishing you by not allowing you to see the children.
So I don't think you're going to get anywhere with her.
You're doing the right thing.
Get yourself a career going, afford a lawyer, hire one in Ohio, and go after her.
That's all you can do.
unidentified
My father-in-law, who's about the only friend I have, says, you know, Scott, you know, my daughter's hated me for the last 15, 20 years, and you've just now misplaced that hatred onto you from her.
He says, you've got to realize she's always been tied to her mother.
That's why her mother and I divorced back in the 70s, and you made the mistake of letting the mother-in-law move in with you before you guys even had your marriage off the ground.
Art, I can't put my hands on the reference source right now, but I know I've seen studies of isolated pre-technological societies that practice plural marriages.
And curiously, their family values are very strong.
The social groups practically free of all forms of violence.
I don't recommend that we adopt these practices ourselves, but you cannot convince me that such a society is inherently immoral.
The church I grew up in would hold that such a society must be saved.
And that I do consider profoundly immoral.
So why should I listen to them concerning gays?
Your pal in Escondido, Tom D. P.S. I know what Leviticus says, but Jesus never said one word, not one.
By the way, there's somebody who keeps faxing me, and I can read the top of it.
It says, dangerously mind-opening.
Don't read it.
And no problem, because I can't.
This guy's been faxing me for a long time.
There's something terribly wrong with his fax machine, sir.
Whoever you are, you should save your phone bill or get a new fax machine because there is something wrong with your scanner and your faxes don't ever come out.
Just thought you'd want to know.
I was able to read enough of it, so I hope you can identify who you are.
Well, what about the facts that I just had that said a lot of primitive, relatively primitive pre-technological cultures have been discovered that have extended families, multiple people involved in what appears to be a marriage, and their family values are fine.
unidentified
Right.
Also, that.
But for instance, even the Aborigines in Australia, very primitive society, have marriage.
Yeah, I thought I'd weigh in on our homosexuality issue this morning.
Yes.
Of course, as you well know, by my moniker, I'm a Bible-believing Christian, therefore I've got to come down on the side of our...
My brothers and sisters this morning have been somewhat slow-spoken, I've noticed, and a little bit less than well-armed when it comes to the battle of wits.
Well, hands down, I mean, in the scriptures, what we call and we revere as the written word of God, what has come down to us today, say the King James Version, which is about 350 years old now, it's clearly stated in both the Old Testaments and the New Testaments that it's an unacceptable, sinful behavior.
And as for the, you know, thou shalt not judge, you know, you have to take everything in context.
We're, as Christians, to love all men, just hate the sin.
No, I'm talking about things like, you know, anal sex for one thing.
I'd be willing for there to be laws allowing insurance companies to deny policies to people who have been proven to practice anal sex, whether it be heterosexual or homosexual.
But, of course, as we well know, it's practiced far more frequently in the homosexual community.
We're discussing whether or not there should be marriage.
unidentified
Well, that's one of the, that's one of the, see, when you start, when you start giving a legal imprimatur to a marriage between two people, you are putting your social compact behind it as well.
I mean, it affects the whole fabric of society.
Jay Sekolo, I don't know if you're familiar with him.
Okay, what about all the heterosexuals that get married and have children that run around killing other children or throwing other kids out of windows?
Regarding caller Alice's statement about Christianity being for everyone, I was a Christian, and that God, Little G, never paid the least bit of attention to me.
I also saw at a very young age what Christian dogma was doing to the world, beginning with Genesis, when God, Little G, gave Adam, the guy, domination over the earth, etc., etc.
Right.
Well, Alice, Christianity is not for everyone.
I'm a neo-pagan.
I do not worship anything.
Worship is for slaves.
I have learned to honor the earth, life, human beings, freedom, and choice.
I work with and enjoy the company of beings conveniently referred to as gods and goddesses, beings who have been in consciousness for millennia, who are non-human, non-physical, very wise, and willing to teach, beings who have no need or desire to be worshipped.
These are the same old ones of our pagan ancestors, and pagan means only from the countryside.
The gods of nature, neo-pagans, honor everyone's choice to believe as they wish.
This includes the right of gay men and women to love one another and to marry.
Love and pleasure were the gifts of the goddesses to humankind.
Sex was once viewed as life force.
In this world of violence and suffering, any love engaged in is a big improvement over the status quo.
I support the right of anyone to love.
Great right in the Wiccan religion, the craft of the wise or witchcraft, is the highest sacrament.
Great right is sexual union.
Wow, the joining of God and goddess, man-woman, or male-female energies within each of us.
And that includes the joining of love of any gay couple.
Grow up, Alice.
This is a free country.
Freedom of religion should be honored.
If you don't believe in gay marriages, you should never marry a woman.
Simple.
Let others live according to their beliefs, which are many.
Nobody's advanced the proposition that perhaps God made the earth old to confuse us and challenge us with the element of faith.
Aha.
He would put all these quanders out there because if God were to come down and say, look, I'm the omnipotent being, worship me, where goes our free will, his gift to us.
It's out the window because only a fool would say, oh, heck no.
Does that include the freedom to have a union that is described as an abomination in the Bible?
unidentified
I would say, yes, it does.
I would say, yes, it does.
Yes, it does.
Because, plus, look at it from their point of view and from the point of the view of the society, even though we've gotten completely off of what I was curious about.
But say two people do love each other, okay?
Be they man-man, woman-woman, man-and-woman, and somebody wants to take care of them, fine.
It's good that there's somebody out there who will take care of them.
Because it's better than having, like, a sick, decrepit person leeching off the state.
Religious Opposition to Gay Marriage00:01:43
unidentified
Actually, I think it's nice to see that there would be people willing to do this for each other.
It warms the heart.
Personally, I think that same-sex marriage, it's like no family.
Or it's current pressure regarding gay marriages or all of the other things, what do you think the odds are that the Christians, the religious people, are right.
And as we turn away from all of this, what I call the quickening gets a little quicker.
unidentified
Yes.
Okay, and we turn away from all this.
Are you saying that we turn away from religion and God and it gets quicker?
In other words, simply, I'm not saying that two people of the same sex cannot raise a child who will turn out okay.
I would think the odds of it would be very much against them.
Not necessarily because of their behavior, but because society lays such a pressure on the norm, in quotes, heterosexual relationship, that that child would be up against some pretty tough odds.
Wouldn't you think that would be true?
The child would be against some pretty tough odds.
Now, that was once true, and maybe still to some degree is, of mixed marriages.
Those children, though to a much lesser degree in today's society, were once up against some pretty damn tough odds.
You know, the half-black child or the half-brown or whatever.
They were against some pretty tough odds.
There's no question about it.
Now, society has changed.
It's come a long way, baby, as the commercial says.
But still, to some degree, that child has a rough time in school.
That child has a rough time in life.
With regard to a homosexual marriage and the union, and then the child that would be not produced but nurtured in such a relationship, I would think that child would face a very difficult road.
And either a male and a male or a female and a female cannot be blessed.
And the definition of blessed is to be made happy, you know, by the giver of life because there's going to be no life given, you know, strictly in that type of relationship.
Okay, and then the other thing I thought was sort of somewhat amusing was they keep saying, well, I can love anybody I want if I want to love another man or if another woman wants to love another woman.
Well, before you love anyone, you have to love yourself.
And you have to accept yourself.
And part of accepting yourself is your sexuality.
And if you have a quality in you that's worth passing to someone else, then you would want, and you have that value, it would seem to me, and I think anybody with any logic, that you would find a person of the opposite sex to take whatever those little nuts of value that you see in yourself and pass them on in procreation.
And so I find that when they're saying, well, I can love anybody, it's not.
In what way would such a relationship be different than a heterosexual relationship in which a decision is made not to have any children?
unidentified
Well, that's their choice if they don't want to do that.
Usually you will find, as they get older, the energy, let's say, that the woman is dealing with, you know, she is her body and her mind are geared for bearing children, that usually takes a toll on them.
Now, some people don't do it and they manage, but it's tough on them.
Well, I say again, though, in what measurable way is a heterosexual relationship other than moral or biblically, which decides not to have offspring, how does that differ from the homosexual relationship where there's not going to be offspring?
unidentified
Well, okay, if you're not going to pass on children, it would differ in this manner.
Usually, okay, let me back up two things.
Usually when let's say a person comes into the office, and this will tie in, usually a counselor who's been trained to spot certain things usually finds that a homosexual, either male or female, their first tip-off is not sexual preference, but emotional immaturity.
Now, if someone is mature enough to relate to someone of the other sex, you know, and be able to enjoy that and maybe not bear children, maybe they don't, for some reason they've decided not to do that, whether it be economical or whatever factor they want to do, they have the choice to do that.
But in the other, they have really no choice.
Then they want to go say, well, you can always adopt one.
And you're right in what you said, that the cards are stacked against them.
Being as is you are being raised by two people of the same sex who actually have been united not through a strength, but by a weakness and by actually an emotional disability to get outside of themselves to relate to someone of the other sex who's willing to do that, meet them.
And what role model does the child have to do that?
Until it was politically, now, first and again, political soundness has nothing to do with psychological soundness.
You know, political correctness has nothing to do with psychological soundness.
Okay, up until recently, homosexual was defined in the medical dictionaries as a mental illness.
And now, with the pressure, you know, being politically changed, just like they do textbooks and anything else, we're being made to accept this.
This is not normal.
And it usually comes from emotional focus where somebody found something either with a woman or with their parents that they focused on and life and maturity went and passed them up while they focused on this thing.