Richard C. Hoagland and Ken Johnston’s 1996 press conference revealed NASA’s alleged suppression of Apollo-era lunar photos showing "ruins"—like a 30-mile-high dome from Soviet Zond 3—highlighting anomalies like UV-blocked visor reflections and missing crater evidence. Hoagland pushed for Clinton-era UFO file disclosure, while callers debated pre-flood artifacts, HAARP risks, and mad cow disease’s U.S. threat. Elizabeth linked hemp to economic and health solutions, clashing with critics over religion and gun control. Keith questioned NASA’s motives, framing extraterrestrial evidence as a funding control issue. Ultimately, the episode underscores persistent claims of hidden lunar/Martian civilizations amid institutional resistance and public skepticism. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning as the case may be and welcome to another edition of the largest live overnight radio talk program in America.
Maybe in the world, actually.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
And I'm Mark Bell.
And I know a lot of you.
Billions of you, actually, want to know what's going on with Richard Hopeland at the news conference at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. Well, you're about to find out.
unidentified
If they won't tell you, many of them didn't, we will.
Dear Art, it is beginning to look like the only way most of us are going to learn what happened at the press conference will be if you tell us tonight.
I learned from the National Press Club there were about 18 cameras and 60 guests at the briefing.
C-SPAN told me they didn't cover it because they had other things to do and because they weren't told who would be there besides Richard Hoagland.
But there was coverage, dear art.
I have a tape of the following report with video graphics, which was broadcast on our local news at 5 p.m., Channel 11, NBC, in Minneapolis.
Does NASA have something to hide?
A private science research group called the Mars Mission thinks so.
The former NASA scientists and engineers and other researchers said today that suppressed NASA and Soviet photographs show apparent lunar ruins that may have been created by another civilization.
I want to certainly thank Adrienne Abbott at KOH, which actually is Citadel Communications.
After hearing our show Friday night, actually a repeat of the Friday night show, she got hold of ABC, and ABC ran some actualities from the news conference.
ABC ran a story on the news conference.
So our sincere thanks to our friends up at Citadel and Adrian and the whole group.
The IRC chat channel, I understand, was something of a disaster.
That's because the IRC chat channel is kind of like anarchy.
In other words, you've got a million people on there at once, and so that's what you get.
A million people on there at once.
That's why I don't do it here on the air.
It's simply too diverting and too anarchistic for my tastes.
And so I guess that was a little rough.
In the meantime, knowing that you would want to know what really went on, I have a very tired Richard Hoagland and Ken Johnston on the phone all the way from, I would guess, somewhere in Washington, D.C. Richard?
I am looking at the Capitol Dome of the United States Capitol in the center of power of the United States, the last reigning superpower of the Western world.
And you know, I can't help thinking, if I look to the left, I can see the Washington Monument, and just beyond that, I can see the White House all glistening in the dark on this beautiful, you know, spring evening.
I can't help thinking that there's something radically wrong with this republic, where a group of scientists who are willing to come forward and talk about a problem with this government cannot get coverage on most of the news outlets in this country after they spent a lot of time and effort and put on a two-hour major presentation, which was carried live to the rest of the world.
Telmundo carried this program from Miami by satellite live to all of South America, to Spain, Portugal, the Mediterranean.
I had a live conversation with a producer afterward.
They were so excited by the photographs.
They were so entrenched by the analysis.
They were so in tune with the historical aspect of what we are proposing and what has to happen now.
And in this country, it's as if it did not happen.
And we're the ones that spent, guys, $20 billion to go to the moon.
You see, I have not talked to Brian Lamb directly, and I would love to, because I don't understand the logic.
If you think we're silly and we're out to lunch, fine, ignore us.
If you don't think we're silly and you think there's something interesting, why not put us on the air?
But if you think we're silly and you still show up and you put it on tape so that there's a record of it, but you're not going to use it, that's kind of a waste of time and effort and money, isn't it?
Well, I have to but wonder at a program that ran, instead of what would have been you live, something about FDR's name used in ideological arguments or some obscure something, something like that.
unidentified
Anyway, I can hear someone chuckling in the background.
Ken Johnston is probably the chuckler, and he's on the line with us.
And Ken, you were NASA's data and photo documentation supervisor.
Is that correct?
unidentified
Well, good morning, Mark.
I'd like to kind of clear that up just a little bit.
I was working for one of the prime contractors for NASA at the time.
That was Brown and Root Northrop.
It was a consortium between Brown and Root Corporation and the Northrop Corporation at the Lunar Receiving Laboratory.
They had the contract for the processing of the lunar samples, and my particular function was the supervisor of the Data and Photo Control Department, which handled all of the photographic as well as written documentation about the lunar samples.
How did you get involved with Richard Hoagland, and why, and what is it that you believe?
unidentified
Well, that's a rather interesting story in itself.
About almost a year ago, as a matter of fact, May the 2nd, it will be a year, when Mr. Hoagland was out in the Seattle, Washington area doing a conference seminar on the Mars-Moon connection.
As a matter of fact, one of the gentlemen who listens to your program regularly had told me about Mr. Hoagland and his research on the Mars face on Mars, something that I had been interested in way back when I was more involved in the space program.
So I'd read his book, and I thought, well, what a great opportunity to go and hear the man speak in person, and particularly since he's going to be talking about a connection between Mars and the program I was very intimately involved in, the moon.
So I wrote up a letter of introduction and kind of told him a little bit about myself, what I'd done and been involved in in the photographic portion of that mission, and showed up a little bit early in hopes I could get him to autograph my book.
One of his associates, Rhonda Ekvin, read the letter and said, oh, don't move.
She said, you're the guy we've been looking for.
And I kind of stood there a little bit concerned, but she went in the back, and next thing I know, I've been ushered in the back and introduced to Richard.
And long story short, after the seminar, we made arrangements for them to come over to my house the next day and take a look at some of the data that I maintained on about 500 to 1,000 photographs in my own personal collection.
And I'd explained to them that I had a complete set of all of the photographic data from the Apollo missions at my college, Alma Mater, back in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma City University.
Now, you've got to understand, Art, this was literally days after the bombing.
And the idea that there was a priceless archive of photographs sequestered in Oklahoma City was pretty amazing to me, given the context of what was going on at the time.
But the coincidence that that's, of all the, you know, it's like that old joke from Castle Blanca, of all the gin joints in all the world.
The idea that Ken had placed these photographs outside NASA 30 years ago in that university, literally across the street.
unidentified
It was just a few blocks down the street, and when I was in Oklahoma City, of course, that area was cordoned off, and you couldn't drive next to it, but I was able to drive close enough that I could actually see the tragedy that had happened there.
And, of course, the city was still in a state of shock.
First of all, did you have in that collection photographs that are now not available from NASA?
unidentified
Well, from what I understand from the photographic experts, the prints that I have and the negatives and film strips that I have, these were made off of the first generation, the originals.
And that the data that they're able to extract from it and things that we can see in those has so far superior to anything they've been able to get from other repositories, that I guess the answer is yes.
There's a lot of things in there that you can see that you wouldn't ordinarily be able to find on material that you'd get from other sources.
Well, you're the photographic person, so I'll ask you a hard question.
Is it because you've got a close-in generation of photographs that you can see these things, or in your opinion, were there things that in later photographs simply were erased?
unidentified
I think I probably ought to defer that one to Richard since they've analyzed it.
And mostly I just wind up the person that had a little foresight to think that we shouldn't throw all of the stuff away.
Here is a very critical political question arc because when we got Kim's data and there's a massive amount, it's voluminous and we have only really intensively looked at a tiny portion of a large collection of prints and other material that he has bequeathed to us on this long-term loan arrangement.
The first thing that I wanted to do of course was to check with the official sources with MSSDC.
Our friends here in Washington that we went to a year ago and had the two-day meeting.
We took eight people into the lab and spent two days looking at the photographic processes and the archiving and the record keeping and why were there duplicate numbers at the same frames that were different, the so-called 4822 problem and all that.
And I had one member of our team literally drive 10,000 miles coast to coast with a very complex piece of equipment from Los Angeles to Goddard, set it up and go through tens of thousands of feet of film stock in preparation for this analysis.
And then Carrie Clark, my own administrative assistant now who formerly ran a major photographic laboratory in New York and has been working with us for about three years on this, she went down to Washington from New York and spent two days with John looking at the stills, the Hasselblad stills.
And we had taken the frame numbers for comparison from Ken's data.
And the first thing we found, Ken, and I don't know whether you realize this, is that the numbers on the photographs you have are not the same numbers that are now out of the archive in Washington here.
Particularly that panorama, the one where you can see the intense geometric haze above the horizon, 360 degrees around, that was misfiled.
And they looked and they looked and they looked, and it was only because the head of the lab had remembered seeing that somewhere else, his own memory, that he was able to go and put his hands on it.
And it was one of those puzzles like, well, God, how did this get in here?
This shouldn't be in here.
This is misfiled.
So we put it in order, very complex order, months ago to get comparison photographs so we could look at them side by side prior to this morning's briefing.
And that order has been delayed and delayed and delayed and delayed.
And finally, three days ago, I had Kerry call the head of the lab here at NSSDC, and he had sworn that this had gone out by FedEx a week ago.
And he went to another office and found it sitting on someone's desk.
And we did not get it in time to make the comparison.
So in actuality, Art, I can't answer your question, except qualitatively, it appears that most of this information has disappeared from the current record just because of generational problems.
In other words, there seem to be what we would term foot dragging in the extreme.
And this is a part of a pattern that we've noticed.
I have not seen any over examples that I could put my finger on in this lunar work of outright retouching or airbrushing or faking of pictures or destruction of data.
What I find is a pattern of deception, a pattern of losing information, of mislabeling it, of publishing catalogs where the photographs appear black, but when you order the picture, the picture is stunning and very good.
In other words, I see a pattern of trying to deter people, trying to dissuade people from getting access to the data.
But if you're persistent and you will not be deterred, ultimately the real data can be found.
And this gives me reason to believe that someone somewhere in NASA realizes that someday this is going to come out.
And you know that the major crime is not the crime.
So this looks like plausible deniability because at any point that we get in the process and find real data, someone can always say, oh, they ran out of ink.
Or, oh, they had somebody in from a temp office who filed it wrong that day.
Well, we have held two press conferences before at the National Press Club on this investigation.
The first was in 1988 when the Russians launched to Mars.
We thought it was important that they go and take pictures of Sidonia.
The second was on the date that the Mars Observer spacecraft was supposed to enter Mars orbit, and we had planned to hold a press conference at that time anyway to encourage NASA with Mars Observer to take new pictures of Sidonia.
And we had 100 show up.
We had 100 show up this time.
We had 18 cameras, and we specifically did not reveal Ken's name or Mars Arnik's name or the other participants to simply protect them from undue pressure prior to laying out the data.
The fact that everybody else showed up and didn't claim that we hadn't revealed their names and that we had a track record of providing a good news story.
We had promised them responsible people, formerly with NASA.
We did go to the extent of saying that.
We did go to the extent of saying it was specifically in terms of photographs that were going to be discussed from inside NASA and what was on them.
The idea that you don't provide a name, I mean, in Washington, sources are commonly withheld until the last minute at a press conference.
Do you see the same things that Richard Hoagland sees?
unidentified
The more and more I've been exposed to looking at the data and realizing actually without the aid of any kind of instrumentation, you can actually see some of the anomalies on just the raw film and pictures itself.
One of the most striking things I have found in one of the comments that one of the analysts Was making is says, if you really want to see what somebody doesn't want you to see on the moon, look in the visor of the person being photographed.
And it was a rather unique experience.
We started looking at that with magnifying glasses and looking at the reflections and the curvature of the face mask of the asthmatonal inner surface.
And there's some rather striking pictures that show what appears to be constructed structures, ladders, portals, some very, very interesting things in the visor and a number of pictures.
So the answer is yes.
There are definitely things you can see with the naked eye.
And then when you start getting some of the enhancement and techniques that Alex Cook had done, just a young man in a dark room working by himself.
Ken, you were in the middle of something, so please continue.
unidentified
Well, I was just explaining about whether or not I think it asked us whether we had seen any unusual features in the pictures.
And the answer is, yes, we did.
You have to understand that I'd had these pictures, my own personal set that I kept for myself, which was about a thousand pictures inside of plastic where I could flip through them.
Occasionally, someone would show some interest, and I'd flip to them.
And, you know, good old soldiers, we looked at them, we saw what we were told we were going to see.
But when Richard and his team came over and we took a serious look at it and got out some loops, it was amazing the things that they had seen in some of those 8th and 10th generations.
It just stood out blatantly right on the pictures that I had.
Please ask Ken, and I think you just answered it, if he knew there were artifacts and or structures or anything anomalous in the photos he possessed before he met Richard.
unidentified
Well, the answer I just gave is no, I really didn't have a chance to pay that much attention to it.
I guess when they came over and we started looking at them and they started pointing out some of the features, I was taken back because here I had them in my possession for about 18, 20, some odd years and really never seriously sat down and looked at them.
They were just great pictures of the lunar surface as well as orbital shots and the astronauts in them.
These were men that I had worked with and knew quite well when I was one of the consultant test pilots with Grumman on the lunar module.
And I never considered that there might be something there that I wasn't told to see.
This is very important because a lot of people don't understand.
They almost say, look, Oglund, if you're right, you know, this stuff should be like New York City.
Everybody should have seen it.
You can't be right because all of NASA can't be in on the conspiracy.
You know, you have to be out to lunch.
And what Kim has just described is a crucial piece of information and perspective.
We tend to see in life what we expect to see.
And Kim's own experience, which is what I wanted him to relate to the National Press Corps this morning, is of an honest guy doing a job that was an 18, 20-hour day demanding Chinese fire drill of getting astronauts to and from the moon safely, as rapidly, rapid fire, bang, bang, bang as possible.
Nobody had time in the system to look at and question details and photographs when the official interpreters were telling them this is what you're seeing.
And it's that process of expecting to see what you expect to see, which I think accounts for the fact that you only require a tiny handful of people at the top to manipulate a system so everybody Else, as honest as they are and as hardworking, as motivated as they are, they just don't see it because it's not blatantly obvious.
It requires an educated eye to understand how to look at these photographs to start with.
In addition to Ken, we had Marvin Zarnik, who is an engineer.
His experience goes back all the way to the Mercury program in Gemini.
He was a key engineer responsible for the rendezvous radar development and implementation of procedures in Gemini, and later on he helped train the Apollo crews in the development of rendezvous techniques.
And he was also involved, I believe, in environmental control systems.
And basically, his experience was with the astronauts, with the day-to-day operations, with the engineering, with the process of going to and from the moon.
And he then went to a major aerospace company, McDonnell Douglas, where he spent a lot of times working with both NASA systems as well as military black budgeted systems.
And when he heard me at Ohio State a couple three years ago through the internet, what Marvin did was to set up an independent team called LARGE for Lunar Artifacts Group in St. Louis.
And he presented the results of their team's five-person independent analysis of our claims as of Ohio State.
And Ken, you might want to pick up on some of the things that Marvin said this morning.
And this is good information, Richard, because a lot of people say you're hanging out on a limb by yourself, claiming things that just aren't true with processed photographs that just don't show what you say it shows.
But there's been independent analysis of what you're saying.
So this represented a significant investment of student personal resources.
When he got the frames back, one of the first things he immediately noticed was what he thought was the absolutely lousy quality of this frame 4822.
And he called me up, and he was kind of bitching and moaning, and I asked him to look on the photograph to see if this structure we call the castle, this glittering glass thing hanging nine miles above the moon, was present on his version of this frame.
And he admitted, I mean, he found it, and he was quite excited because this represented the first confirmation outside of my Goddard source that it provided to me initially, that an average person ordering The photograph through NASA could get this frame with this structure.
He then proceeded to send me the original negative after he made duplicates and prints and all that.
And when we got it and compared it to our own data, we then realized that Alex Cook had made a major step forward in the investigation at that point because his frame, the Cook 4822, contained the first stereo pair of the castle.
An image taken a few minutes later showing it had changed the angle and position over the surface so we can get a 3D stereo comparison with actually how big it is and how far away it is.
That was one of the things that the crew did, they would take sequenced shots timed to give them a stereographic view of objects and the linear surface.
All right, since you're the great expert in this area, Ken, how can one photograph or I I assumed, wrong thing to do, of course, that one photograph would be assigned one number?
unidentified
Well, that came as a surprise to me because when we would be looking for specific views of the surface as well as where lunar rocks and things were located, even stereo pairs had sequential numbering back whenever we were getting the original data.
You know, people can get a little bit pissed off at that at the federal level.
Well, here we have, for this one frame, 10 times the number of images all masquerading under one frame number, and nobody has to be a rocket scientist to realize there ain't something, you know, right with all that.
We actually ran out of time at the end, and we were not able to display those to the group this morning.
But we do have two frames now taken from the Zond 3 mission, which were in the press packets.
We had a lot of material in the press packets that they were able to take away from the conference that we, you know, some of which we didn't get to during the actual live presentation.
We had hard copy, it was annotated, it had the proper background sourcing and all that.
We now have a second frame from the Zond 3 mission on July 20th, 1965.
And remember, the first Zond frame showed this 30-mile-high dome-like protrusion at the lunar limb.
This second frame shows a 20-some-mile tower, very massive tower, which is farther to the north on the limb of a photograph taken a few seconds earlier in this 28-frame sequence that we can't get our hands on out of Moscow.
And it is pointed, aimed straight down toward the center of the moon.
In other words, the tower is a tower.
It knows where the local gravity should be pointing it.
And that was one of the most fascinating things I ever saw when Richard Nim showed me, because there is clearly this dome on the limb of the lunar surface with the sun coming up behind it.
And there's this huge chunk.
It literally shows that it has been battered and beat, but it's still pretty much intact.
Now, see, this is a very important piece of information.
When NASA sent the Apollo cruise to the moon, for some reason, and we have our suspicions, but we don't have a memo describing why, there wasn't any negative film sent.
In other words, they didn't send a roll of film that when you bring it back and you develop it, you get a negative from which you can make a paper print.
They sent transparency film, reversal film, slide film, really, ectachrome X rated ASA 64 in 1969.
And then from those transparencies, something called an internegative had to be made.
And from that internegative, you'd make your print.
So there was a two-stage process.
So Ken's prints actually were not second generation.
They were third generation from the original data.
And in that intermediate step, in that second generation process, is where we believe that some interesting hanky-panky went on.
unidentified
Let me interject here.
Sure.
That was one of the questions a lot of people ask when they look at the pictures I have in my collection.
Why is this guy absolutely totally black?
And of course, the explanation I was given at the time is with all the brightness on the lunar surface and the astronauts' white spacesuits, that you had to step down the focus on it, not folks, but the F-Stop.
Yeah, the F-Stop to the point to where it caused the sky and everything to be totally black.
That's the story we were given.
That's the explanation I gave up until just recently.
Well, if you take a reversal film and you expose it, if the moon was as advertised, even if you open the lens wide and you had a time exposure of, let's say, several seconds, the sky should still be absolutely black.
A vacuum is a vacuum, is a vacuum.
There's supposed to be no air on the moon, you know, except for maybe light scattered in the lens from the surface or the spacesuits, which would cause a kind of a graying out.
You know, that sky should be beautiful velvet black, as black as the blackest night you can imagine.
In fact, when you start looking at Ken's prints, which now remember are third generation from the original, taken on the moon, there is a beautiful, very slight bluish haze in the sky.
You know, looking at it on a bright light, just holding the print at the right angle.
And I started to think, wait a minute, why is this sky not black?
Why does it have any haze at all?
Because the photos were not overexposed.
They were very well exposed.
They were perfectly exposed.
I mean, these things have been sitting in archives for 30 years, and they were better in terms of quality than the photos we were seeing right out of the lab at NSSDC just a few months before.
Anyway, so we put these photos under the optical scanner and used the computer algorithms that we've been working with now for several years.
And the most amazing geometric patterns come out of this haze.
Because what the computer is able to do, because it's sensing gray levels and light levels below the human ability to detect light steps.
Sure, sure.
The technology is better than the natural human eye.
That's what technology does.
It amplifies human senses.
So what we're doing is we're simply amplifying information that's already there and making it blatant, whereas if you look at the print, you can barely see that there's something out of place.
If we had the original transparencies, not the prints that Ken has, but the transparencies, it's my bet that we would have amazing detail in the sky you could look at by simply looking at a bright light.
That these photographs were exposed to record the glittering glass domes and structures and ruins that are sticking up above the horizon.
That in fact that was why NASA went with a transparency film.
That they had a special film built which had an ultraviolet sensitive layer that would record that information even better than conventional electricomex film.
And that in the laboratory, by putting a filter in the optical enlarger when you made your internegative, they could remove almost all trace of that offending detail.
So in essence, they had an almost foolproof scheme for taking pictures of real data on the moon and giving to the American people and the press and the world a false, distorted version of the moon that really is.
Well, maybe this will be enough of a spark to ignite yet more massive coverage.
Ken, what's your attitude about that?
Do you think NASA will begin looking hard at this now?
unidentified
I certainly hope they will.
I will say this, though, at the coverage that FOSS gave, the one person that was the rebuttal young man wasn't even born when these pictures were taken, and he's telling you that we're all wet.
I would hope they'd take it seriously and come out and do the analysis.
We've recorded all the steps that they've done to look at these items and look at these artifacts, and all they have to do is just repeat the steps and answer the question, is there something there or not?
Well, I think we need to talk to some real folks, and I'll tell you why.
As we were building up, I got a lot of factors and calls from people in your audience that were basically giving us moral support.
And I think we deserve to answer some of their questions.
And while we have Ken, this is a very important opportunity.
Ken is feeling a little bit lonely right now.
And one of the things that I think he'd like to do is to encourage other folks in NASA who may have done the same thing he did, put data away, you know, look at it inside, ask some questions, but don't quite know who to go to to talk to about this.
All right, as we go back to our two guests, this report of coverage by KBC Television in Los Angeles tonight at 11.30, actually after we went on the air, female anchor.
Well, the man that once said he found a human-like face in a photograph on Mars tonight claims he spotted signs of an ancient civilization on the moon.
Richard Hoagland held a news conference displaying magnified portions of pictures taken by the Apollo astronauts on the lunar surface.
Now he sees a Grecian-like temple, a mile and a half high formation, and what he calls a glass dome.
Apollo 12 astronaut Alan Beam says not true.
He took many of those photos, says he doesn't see any signs of civilizations or little moon condos or anything else.
Other anchor, maybe he needs new glasses.
Female, maybe.
That was the essence of the newscast that ran at 11.30 on KBC television in Los Angeles.
We have a film that was released by NASA in 1969 called Apollo 12 Pinpoint for Science, which was the half-hour official NASA PR film on the Apollo 12 mission.
And we have had that film analyzed frame by frame.
There are some remarkable sequences from that film.
And I have to describe how the film was made, because when the Apollo program was underway, what people have to understand is there was this incredible demand for time.
Ken, how many hours a day were you putting in on Apollo when you were there?
unidentified
Well, for most of it, the early stage, we were putting in anywhere from 12 to 14 hours, seven days a week.
Back in Bath Pays, Long Island at the final assembly plants for the lunar module, we had one guy who had been doing that for like three years, came in, clocked in, turned around, had a heart attack, and died because that was extremely stressful to do that.
There was no time for reflection or analysis or any kind of scientific process that a scientist would recognize.
So it was bang, bang, bang, mission after mission after mission.
And during the, right after the Apollo 12 mission, which occurred in November of 1969, NASA PR in Washington here wanted a film to get out to the news media.
And the procedure was that they would take the photos the astronauts had taken on the moon, the still photos.
They would make up prints, they'd rush them over to this production house, I think it was in Houston, run by Ken Grimm at the time, and they would put them on what's called an Oxbury animation stand.
And they would point a 16mm camera at them.
And they would pan the stills.
And they would make their film from the film of the stills that the astronauts had taken.
On Apollo 12, the astronauts did not take any 16 millimeter motion picture film on the surface outside the lunar module.
They took Hasselblad stills from still cameras mounted on the chest of their spacesuits.
And then those were used to make up the film as part of the elaborate production process when they came back.
Well, we noticed when one of our colleagues, the same gentleman who drove his equipment 10,000 miles from California from Los Angeles to Goddard, when we put one of these original films, which is now 30 years old, it's faded, it's brittle, you know, it breaks in the projector in the Telesini, when we put it on the instrument and had him look at it, there were some remarkable peculiarities about this official NASA-released film.
And what I did was I had him make a videotape copy of the film through this very high-quality electronic system, which he's developed based on German engineering for the Hollywood film industry out in California.
And I had him send it to me, and I put it through our computer process, which is able to take still frames, digitize them, enlarge them, and then using a variety of algorithms, enhance them.
And on those frames from NASA's own film, we have photographs of Alan Bean standing in front of stunning, geometric, tiered, recessed, buttressed lunar ruins over and over again.
Which means people should be able to get access to it and do the same thing with it that we've done with it.
So now we come back to Alan Bean.
Alan Bean is claiming to ABC tonight that he didn't see anything, and as far as he knows, there's nothing there.
Now, what I need to see is the exact wording of his statement.
Remember, the art of politics is the exact language.
The State Department spends a fortune writing draft language for relations between countries because a word or a comma legally has a whole different meaning.
What is very clear here, because we've got the evidence, all right, is a situation very similar to Hillary Clinton.
Hillary Clinton got a document out of her library the other day that she wasn't supposed to have.
We don't know how it got into her library.
She claims she doesn't know how it got to her library on the third floor of the White House.
But the document exists.
We have photographs of Alan Bean standing in front of ruins on the lunar surface.
And until he is confronted face to face with this photo and asked, how can you say it's not there when it's there on official release prints that NASA sent all over the world, and all we've done is go back to the original NASA film and simply turn up the contrast?
The astronauts' visors were gold, and Ken, correct me at any point if I'm wrong here.
They were gold-plated multiple layer of lexan, which is a very hard plastic.
And they had a pull-down gold lexan covering so that they could filter out ultraviolet light.
Now, the first thing I thought of when we got these photographs is, oh my God, here's the greatest tragedy in history.
We send human beings to the moon to explore the moon to find what no one has found before, and because of the basic equipment they had, which was a filter that cut out ultraviolet, they missed seeing the most stunning, obvious thing they should have seen, which is these tiered ruins around them made of glass shining brightly in the ultraviolet.
Because we have photographs of the astronauts with those gold overvisors raised up, looking at the moon directly with the unaided eye through the plastic visor.
unidentified
Right, those were used when looking directly up sun, looking toward sun.
And because these things glow most brightly looking away from the sun, when you look at the Apollo 14 panoramas provided by Ken, you can see Shepard's shadow extending out, and the stuff in the sky, the crud, the glass, the domes, the ruins, are most brightly visible away from the sun when you would put the visor up so you could see.
On Apollo 12 from Ken's archive, we have photographs of P. Conrad looking at Bean and Bean looking at Conrad and taking pictures of each other, and we have ruins reflected in the visors of the other astronaut.
Two years ago, when Alan Bean, and it's interesting that Alan Bean has been picked, you know, obviously he's been picked because we cited him at the press conference this morning as one of the guys that we've got photographs of standing in front of these things.
We also have the lunar module parked right in front of one of these stepped-tiered buttresses, which is identical to the same kind of buttressing we see on the Apollo 14 data, 122 miles away, but at a greater distance.
In other words, we've got convergent data on two different data sets, the NASA film and the prints that Ken put away in the archive, and they're two different sources and they're showing us the same stuff.
The thing that strikes me about Bean is that Bean was a visual guy.
Alan Bean, when he retired from the Astronaut Corps, became an artist.
Alan Bean is a professional artist, and he's a damn good artist.
Now, I used to do art when I was in a museum game back in Springfield.
One of the things that I did was I painted.
And when I went to NBC as an unpaid consultant the night of the first surveyor landing, I came back to the museum from New York in 65 or 66, and I painted the version of what it would have been like to stand on the moon next to a surveyor looking up at the earth, which still hangs in the Museum of Science in Springfield, Massachusetts.
One of my heroes was Chesley Bonstell, who was the first realistic space illustrator of this century.
When Alan Bean retired from being an astronaut, he took his talent and turned into a professional space illustrator.
And he has produced all kinds of artwork, centering and moving around the theme of the Apollo missions to the moon.
So his artistic background and training and curiosity and talent was honed to a fine art, pun intended, in terms of his later profession.
And he's done some very, very, very striking work, which has captured the essence of the Apollo spirit and what we all thought was going on.
Look, if you had the Russian pictures you talk about, and they clearly show large structures, why in the world would you not have shown them right away to catch the attention right away of the Russian people?
Can I jump in on that one?
Yeah, you may, sure.
unidentified
Okay.
The same thing is that we discussed how to present this material, and because it's kind of a progressive process, because when you first look at it, you say, oh, well, that's the moon.
I mean, we've been looking at the moon for thousands of years and seeing it.
And we wanted to present it in such a way to building up to a climax to show that the items last day were just so blatant.
So we were in a process of getting there, and then we got cut short.
Well, see, this begins to add substance then, certainly, to your claims, Richard, and so much so, I would think, that at the very least, it ought to be more than a chuckle item at the end of a newscast, and it ought to engender some serious investigation, even by NASA.
Well, the one area, Richard, that I disagree with you in is the effect this information would have on the present scientific and religious paradigms.
I think it would wreak havoc.
I know you think everybody's ready.
They're not.
I wish you could have been around to get some of the calls I've had from devout Christians who would be horrendously challenged and shaken if your information was validated.
Now, Ken, you've got your neck out a couple of miles or more here.
And how much consideration did you give to going public before you did?
unidentified
Well, fortunately, I'm 53 years old now.
And at the time, I was probably one of the youngest engineers involved in the program.
And each time I listen to Richard talk, I realize that that limbs get a little further out there.
Hopefully there are other people.
In fact, I know there has to be.
Just today when I was listening to Richard talk, he was talking about the fact that most of the documentation and stuff, how to build the Apollo 5 and the Saturn V and the spacecrafts has been, I believe you said Richard, has been destroyed or has been retrieved or what have you.
The FBI went around the country after Apollo, and they literally called back with blueprints from the contractors, from engineers, from private consultants, and they destroyed them.
We could not build a Saturn V today.
You know, if our life depended on it, we would have to reinvent the wheel.
unidentified
A lot of us had the Apollo Operations Hands books or the command and service module, the lunar modules.
Art Bell From a transcript of the press conference at the Press Club in Washington, D.C., skipping down to our guest, Mr. Johnston, he's at the podium.
He's giving his background.
In 1966, he left the Marines and was a consultant and test pilot with Grumman.
He amassed 3,000 hours as a pilot himself.
He was test command pilot at the Johnson Space Center.
Mr. Johnson is describing photos he saw while he was in charge of the photo archive at the Johnson Space Center.
He is describing a viewing of one of the films taken by the astronauts on Apollo footage with plumage that was removed from this film within 24 hours mysteriously.
He was at Johnson through all the missions.
Mr. Johnston is showing letters verifying that he gave Hoagland the photos of Apollo 14 that he has here at the conference.
Okay, again, describing viewing one of the films taken by the astronauts in Apollo footage with plumage that was removed from that film within 24 hours.
Tell us about that, please.
unidentified
Well, in that particular case, this was Apollo 14, and after we had received the film, right after the astronauts returned to Earth, it had been processed in the NASA photo lab.
It was my responsibility to put together a private viewing for the chief astronomer.
That was Dr. Thornton Page and his associate and contributing scientist.
I took the film over and set it up into what's called a sequence camera.
It's kind of like one of the gun cameras they use in the military where you can stop, pre-spring, go forward, back up, and zoom in.
And we were viewing the Apollo 14 footage coming around the back side of the moon as we were approaching a large crater.
Now, due to the sun angle, on the front side that we'd be looking at, we'd be looking at probably more of a crescent at that point.
On the back side, then the shadows and the craters were covering about half the crater.
This particular large crater showed a cluster of about five or six lights down inside the rim and this column or plume or outgassing or something coming up above the rim of the crater where we could see that.
At that point, Dr. Page had me stop and freeze and back up and go back and forth several times.
And each time he had paused a second looking at that, and he finally turned to his associates and says, well, isn't that interesting?
And they all chuckled and laughed.
And Dr. Page says, continue.
Well, I finished up that viewing.
I was told to take it back into NASA bonded storage in the photo lab where the next day I was to check it back out and show it to the rank and file engineers and scientists at Johnson Space Center.
While we were viewing it the second time, some of my friends sitting next to me was telling me, you can't believe what we saw in the back sediment.
Where did you see this view as we were approaching the same crater?
And we went past the crater.
There was nothing there.
I stopped the camera, took the film out to examine if anything had been cut out.
And there was no evidence of anything being cut out.
I told the audience that we were having technical difficulties.
Put it back in and finished.
That afternoon, I ran in and Dr. Pedro at the Lunar Steel Laboratory and asked him what had happened to the lights and the outgassing steam we saw.
And he kind of grinned, gave a little twinkle in the chuckle.
He says, there were no lights.
There's nothing there.
And he walked away.
And we were so busy I didn't get a chance to question him again.
See, this is the kind of thing that it seems to me they cannot ignore.
Now, during the news conference, Sarah McGlendon, I'm well familiar with Sarah, White House reporter, apparently was there, and she asked who constructed These artifacts, another journalist is wondering why the SETI program appears to be searching for extraterrestrial life, yet ignores their data.
Well, what I said, I believe, in response, was that the whole premise of SETI is that there are mathematical symbols that would be coming in on radio.
There'd be coded signals that would differentiate between background radio static and radio telescope and an actual ET signal directed toward the Earth.
And what we have found in the NASA data is geometric mathematical coded data, not in a radio way, but in pictures and photographs.
And we actually have found that same data on the Moon in terms of the Clementine data, which we do not have time to get into tonight.
The whole point of this press conference is there's a whole perspective on the NASA experience that has been restricted from those outside of the agency.
And when you try to bring it to the ordinary press person or even the interested press person, because they don't have the background, you've got to start at square one.
Even with two hours, there was not enough time to present all of what we had assembled.
And we had really winnowed down to the best because we had to present the credentials and the credibility of our presenters to start with.
Of course.
Now, Sarah McClendon, you know, this is a person I really admire as one of the few people in the press who still has the old school integrity.
And she really was fighting, and my press person put me on the phone in a conference call.
In 30 seconds, Art, she agreed to come.
She said, this is the most important thing I can do.
She came in a wheelchair this morning.
She wasn't feeling well.
She was looking with an eagle eye at these pictures.
She has now invited me to come back to Washington next week on the 27th and present this data to her group of investigative reporters that she is schooling at the National Press Club.
And what I'm going to ask her to do is to basically, at the next press conference, put the question to Bill Clinton directly.
Mr. President, why don't you just open these files?
You said in Belfast that the Air Force was telling you that UFOs don't exist, but you want to know.
Here is data from a space program that you're now in charge of.
It didn't happen on your watch, but you, with executive order, can give everyone clemency.
No blame.
Nobody sitting in front of Senate hearings.
Let's just find out what we really have and let's move on.
And Sarah McClendon is the person I'm going to ask to do this.
And with more education here in what she's seeing, I know that she's going to agree to do that.
So we are making progress.
Now, there's something else I've got to tell Ken, because we're on two different floors of this hotel overlooking the Capitol.
And this happened before we went on the air, so he does not know this.
We have a date, Ken, tomorrow afternoon between 4 and 7 to meet with the executive producer of one of the major television network news shows here in Washington to discuss your being interviewed by a major network anchor regarding what we are talking about this evening.
unidentified
Does that mean I'm going out on that rim a little bit working?
And while we're there, Ken, I want to get back to this.
Would you like to make a plea for others like yourself, others that were involved in the program, to come?
unidentified
I was going to say before we broke, a lot of us had the Apollo Operations handbooks for the command modules, lunar modules.
These had the schematics, the drawing, the blueprints.
I saved a lot of that stuff and put them in boxes, hoping to write my memoirs later on in life.
And I know there are a lot of people like myself out there that have things that, for one reason or other, decided to pigeon away in the hole.
And if we could start a public repository for this data that isn't controlled by any agency or government or anything like that, I think it'd be a great opportunity.
That's why I put my data and material with it's now called the Enterprise Mission Group.
So I'm hoping that others will come forward and do the same thing.
We announced at the press club that we have changed the name of the Mars mission to the Enterprise mission.
Now, there's a reason for that.
Mars is too narrowly focused.
We now have demonstrable data indicating strongly ancient ruins on two worlds in the solar system.
I'm beginning to suspect that it's not limited just to that.
There's other NASA data sets that we've been quietly looking at that are very provocative and troubling if you don't understand that maybe you're looking at artificial stuff as opposed to natural stuff.
And that will be discussed in future programs that you and I will do and future things that we will publish.
The point is that we needed a broader focus.
So I've been thinking for the last week or so as we're building up to this, what are we going to do?
How do we move the focus and broaden it from Mars to the whole NASA solar system exploration and probing questions on what is really out there?
And I realized that already the name had been given to us.
But a few nights ago, Alan Keyes, who was a very interesting person, former ambassador to the UN, running for president, he was in the debate in Dallas with Pat Buchanan and Steve Forbes, I believe.
And the thing that was so striking about Alan Keyes is he looked at the camera and he said in essence, I'm going to paraphrase, he said, Star Trek more exemplifies the NASA that should exist now than NASA does.
And I tried to get from C-SPAN, you know, C-SPAN is becoming my pain in the you-know-what.
We tried to get the tape because I wanted to run that tape to demonstrate in the idiom of the day, the presidential race, to these reporters that, in fact, even the candidates, at least one of them, the bright guy in the group, realizes there's something wrong at NASA, that it's business as usual when you're exploring something which is anything but usual.
Anyway, so taking a cue from Alan Keyes, I realized that what the Star Trek community had done many years ago, when they overrode NASA's insistence on calling the first space shuttle Constitution, and wrote 400,000 letters, which I must admit I was responsible for engineering, to the White House, to President Ford at that time, to get him to override Jim Fletcher at NASA and to call it Enterprise.
Succeeded.
The democratic aspect of grassroots America, real citizens voting with their feet for a space program that was worthy of the name, demanded of the White House and got from a President of the United States the first space shuttle of the fleet named Enterprise.
So we decided this morning we're going to call this institution we're framing around a real space program to boldly go where someone apparently has gone before.
On behalf of Ken, Richard, if somebody else out there with artifacts and more than memories stored away and photographs, whatever, wants to get hold of you and is willing to come forward, how do they do it?
Actually, I may be able to do something from here in Washington because there's a computer sitting here in our hotel room, which a friend of mine, a technician, is coming over with a card tomorrow so I can actually dub discs of images which exist on a mag optical drive that we couldn't access all day today.
Very frustrating.
And when I get those, I will motor them over to Keith, and we may be able to actually gather them up before the weekend.
Well, I was at that point feeling a little bit pissed off at CNN because they did not show up.
They promised us on the phone they would show up.
They did not show up.
So I pick up the phone and I said to John, I said, hi, John.
I said, Dick Hogan here, I'm a fan of yours.
And he said, Dick, he says, I'm becoming a fan of yours.
What in the world is going on?
Tell me about these pictures.
And we had a conversation.
He has agreed that he wants to do a major story on this.
He wants to do it while Ken and company are still here in Washington at the Washington Bureau, which means booking satellite time.
We have these huge murals and blow-ups that we have created for the press club that are physical enlargements of photographs several feet across, both in black and white and color, unenhanced and enhanced to compare, that I'll be able to do in the studio.
And barring that, he said he wants to talk to Ken later at some point, and he wants me to send discs, the same discs I'm going to be sending or the same images electronically to your website, I'm going to be sending to Atlanta to John Holloman.
So if people want to see this on CNN, you might just give John Holloman a call or send him a facts and encourage him to follow his nose for news.
And your audience art really deserves some kudos from us because I must say that the calls and the faxes and the solicitations and the good wishes and the feeling that people really cared has been what's kept us going that and a few cups of coffee and some adrenaline.
So thank you one and all.
And with that, we will wish you a fine good night from the nation's capital.
Thought I owed that last couple of hours to you, so you might know what actually went on, as opposed to the little kicker stories we're getting here and there on the news services.
And it sounds like there's a lot more to come, and I'm certainly grateful for the information that apparently is on the way to my web page.
So don't expect it for, I would say, the next 24 hours, but after that, I would suggest to you it'll probably be there.
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All right, Atlantis was supposed to blast off at 1213.
Now, I didn't catch it.
I've got CNN running in the background right now.
It will dock with Mir.
One interesting note I thought during the day, CNN reporting, astronaut Shannon Lucid, gee, is Shannon going to space, is going to spend 142 days on the Mir space station.
The Russians, the Russians said, gee, we're glad she's on the way because, quote, women like to clean, end quote.
And I thought, you know, geez, what an insult.
I mean, here comes an American woman, an astronaut, who's going to be there for 142 days, and their only comment is, oh, cool.
Women like to clean.
We'll be glad to see her.
And I wonder how many women are a little put off by that.
All right, look, I think clearly one of the biggest stories of the day today came from England, and I reported it to you last night in some great amount of detail.
And lo and behold, about an hour after I got off the air, CNN began running it as their lead story, and it has blown up all day long.
It involves the fact, and I told you this yesterday, late in the show, that in England they're talking about the possibility of slaughtering 11 million cows.
There is panic in England.
It's called Mad Cow Disease.
British officials say the country's 11 million beef cattle may have to be slaughtered to halt mad cow disease.
France and Belgium have banned imports of British beef and cattle as panic spread among consumers at home and abroad.
I'm reading to you from Reuters.
British health officials say scientists have found a likely link between mad cow disease and its fatal human equivalent.
In other words, they are concerned that it has jumped species, but they insist the chances of becoming ill from beef is minimal now that safety measures have been implemented to prevent the disease from entering the human food chain.
They've got 10 cases so far in humans.
Symptoms are dementia, loss of muscle control, loss of speech, possible blindness, and then death.
Death, a sure bet, within 3 to 12 months, there is no cure.
So there is beginning to be certainly a European and nearly worldwide panic, and they may end up slaughtering 11 million cattle.
Now, for years, the British scientists insisted there is no chance that this disease will jump species.
Famous last words.
And that phrase particularly applies here.
Famous last words.
From Scott up in Butte Creek Farm, Oregon, listening to KEX HiART, mad cow disease?
What next?
I'm sure the vegetarians of the world are feeling pretty smug right about now.
A doctor on national radio earlier said, if you combined Alzheimer's, multiple sclerosis, and Lou Gehrig's disease, you'd have the equivalent of mad cow disorder.
He also said this disease is caused by a new type of life form, get this, that is even smaller and less complex than a virus.
This really gives a whole new meaning to a Big Mac attack.
P.S. The doctor's information came from today's New York Times, and I would like to stress that there is no indication at all that this mad cow disease has infected any U.S. cattle yet.
I repeat, there is no indication that this mad cow disease has infected any U.S. cattle.
The problem in England is the gestation period for the onset of symptoms is sometimes eight to ten years after ingestion or infection.
And I saw a British health official interviewed earlier tonight on CNN, and they asked him point blank, what could this mean?
What are we in for?
And he said, well, it could be that we'll only have these cases.
Or it could be we'll have several dozen more cases.
Or we could have a complete epidemic on our hands.
We don't know yet.
The interviewer asked him, could it be as serious as AIDS?
He said, well, I can't lie to you.
The answer has to be yes.
It could be.
Anybody for a salad?
And as my friend up in Oregon suggested, I would imagine the vegetarians out there are having a field day with this, as you might well expect.
I've had no luck at all with my hand.
You all know about my new cat, Comet.
Well, Comet proved to be a flashing, streaking ball of orange with a long tail earlier today.
When Comet came home from the doctor, Comet was drugged.
Nevertheless, Comet allowed me, with great protest and some purring, to pick him up.
He is a feral cat.
I tried very hard earlier this morning to make friends with Comet.
And when I reached to pick Comet, reach down and pick Comet up, he turned around and bit the hand that's been trying to feed him.
He didn't bite me a little bit.
He bit me big time.
In fact, those of you who have Vidian, I would be happy to show you what my hand looks like.
My hand has been through, and naturally, you know, he would bite me in exactly the place where my thumb had been sore previously, or at least right next to it.
So now I have not only a sore thumb, but I have a hand that has been turned into dog meat.
Or would that be cat meat?
So now Comet occupies his own little space in our second bathroom with the doors closed.
Boy, I'll tell you what, this cat nailed me.
Ooh, ooh, am I sore?
And I've, of course, done everything for it.
immediately put to proxide on it all the rest of it and i don't i don't know But by man, I'll tell you, my cat, my feral, wild cat, lived up to his name and nailed me, just really laid into me as hard as, you know, if you can imagine a cat biting as hard as a cat could bite.
Obviously scared.
I shouldn't have tried to pick him up.
But I figured, since I did the previous day, why I'd be able to today.
That was a bad, bad decision.
Bad decision.
All right, so you're updated now on what's going on in Britain.
You know, I don't mean to question conventional science, but I'm telling you folks right now, when they tell you something cannot happen, oh, it can't jump species, there's no health concerns, take it with a grain of salt.
And I mean, or two or three or ten grains of salt.
Anybody for a salad.
There will be a vote on the assault weapons ban later today.
Bob Dole does not think that he's got the votes.
As a matter of fact, he probably does not.
And even if he does, the president has promised a veto.
That's a no-brainer.
But I suppose it will serve some purpose to get it at least to the president.
Imagine, if you will, it's your first time flying.
You know me in flying.
I love the idea of flying, and I have tried various forms of it, with various forms of physical injury as a result, all my life.
In Washington State earlier today, imagine it's your first flying lesson.
You take off with your instructor.
You get up in the air.
Your heart's pumping.
It's your first time at the stick.
You're about to get your first opportunity to hold that stick for a moment.
And then your pilot keels over in your lap with a heart attack.
You're only pilot.
It happened to a man named Leland Capps up in Washington earlier today.
The control tower tried to talk Leland down to a safe landing, and he almost made it.
He was going up and down and sideways and every other way, but Leland with the poor pilot, who, by the way, is dead of that heart attack, made not what I would call a landing, but something that would more approach a controlled crash.
Leland, however, lived through it.
Now, I would ask you, if you were up there taking a lesson, you're first, and your pilot had a heart attack and fell over dead, do you think you would A, try to land the plane yourself, or B, promptly have your own heart attack?
And I'm not sure which my answer would be A or B. I don't know which I do.
Taiwan is defiant on the eve of its historic presidential election, standing firm in its war of nerves with China, and buoyed by a fresh sympathetic gesture from us, the U.S. Taiwan's foreign minister,
Frederick Xin, says that Taipei will not make any concessions to Beijing, but he says Taiwan would be willing to return to dialogue with Beijing once the Chinese have completed menacing military exercises, said, quote, they return to their sanity when they do.
In Washington, the Senate passed a resolution deploring China's action and suggesting that if action on our part is required, the President first check please with Congress.
The UAW strike has been settled.
The 17-day strike that idled over 160,000 workers finally settled.
That's good news.
The House has passed an immigration bill, very much watered down from the original, however.
Hillary Clinton has defended her role, said she didn't really have anything at all to do with the firing of the Travelgate people, or the Travel Office people that resulted in the Travelgate business.
And tonight we will continue our what-ifs, because they are so much fun.
And here are yet a few more.
Hey, Art, I've got some what-ifs for you.
What if China uses a low-kiloton warhead on Taiwan?
Well, my answer would be, we need a new Bob Crane.
Two, what if the U.S. underestimates China's military and they're not as backward as we think?
Well, then we might need a new LA.
What if Russia sold China long-range ICBMs for much-needed cash?
Well, then we might need a new Chicago and New York.
What if China has more than 100 ICBMs secretly hidden?
Then we might need a new PROMP.
What if China launches those missiles at us?
Duck and cover.
What if China encases their nuclear warheads in cobalt?
Oh boy, this just gets worse and worse.
What if they use mass biological weapons?
What if the U.S. and China exchange hundreds of nuclear weapons?
This just gets worse and worse.
His what-ifs deteriorate to total nuclear, global thermonuclear war.
And we can only hope that something like that does not occur.
All right.
unidentified
right in the middle of whatever it is we're going to be doing this morning getting to the phones in just one moment You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 21st, 1996.
I've been listening to you the last couple of nights, and one of the things you've repeatedly mentioned and apparently had a lot of calls on from Christians is that what you've been talking about doesn't is not consistent with either Christian faith or biblical model or something like that.
Doctor told me cats can carry the rabies virus and do quite often.
Don't worry about the cows.
Worry about the cat bite.
Nomad.
Well, you've got to bear in mind that the previous day we had had this cat to the vet was tested for rabies and everything else in the world and given shots.
But, yeah, you know, I might come down with mad cat disease anytime here.
Listen carefully.
It should be very entertaining.
I'll start to meet Al probably and screech and jump across the room.
Art, I'm in my mid-20s.
I've neglected getting my will together to this point in my life.
You know, that young immortal complex.
Anyway, I've been thinking what to leave and who to leave it to upon my demise and what info I need to pass on to those when I'm no longer here.
Since we are a part of your life, my question is, have you made a play-if-I-Die date for us?
No, but I had to do that, huh?
Play-if-I-Die.
I just wanted to let you know we're getting very close to the baseball season.
I know that'll make you smile.
Go Cleveland.
It's true, we are getting close to baseball again.
The horrid sport returns like the plague, like the mad cow virus.
Art Unsolved Mysteries is going to do a piece on the death of Vince Foster tomorrow night, Friday, 8 p.m.
And that was on February 25th, see 7 p.m. here on the Pacific coast.
Now, for that special of the 60 minutes on broadcast, it was actually, the video portion of it was actually 46 minutes.
Bill Coate, the producer of that, which I spoke with actually about a month before the special aired, because he sent me a preview copy of the program back in December.
People that are in the field that are studying origins and that kind of thing.
Well, he also mentioned in his press release that he has a 60-minute version of the same program, which is for the same price, $19.95.
And in that press release, it talked about the hammer, which I have a replica of, which was discovered in 1939 down in Puloxy River in Texas in the Cretaceous sandstone, right in and among dinosaur footprints and that kind of thing.
Now, let me get back to the hammer in just a minute because this will blow your mind.
Please.
But in the special, you will remember, in the special that we saw, you'll remember a couple of statements that were made by scientists.
And they kind of were just passed off because, you know, in a one-hour special, they're trying to cover a lot of ground here.
Okay, now, and you've been talking about that a little bit.
Okay, now there was a couple of statements that were made in the special.
One was just before the end of the special, one scientist said, talking about radiometric dating, because evolution requires many millions of years.
And he's made the statement that recent work with radiometric and radioisotopic dating has been showing that maybe the millions of years are only thousands of years because of errors in the method.
Many, many errors and assumptions and errors in the method.
And that statement was made on the special.
And it kind of was passed off.
That was toward the end.
But then another statement was made by a scientist, as you recall, who said he's convinced that mankind has amnesia.
Okay, now, I've been hearing people talk about that maybe there's been many cycles of high-tech and low-tech over the years, but we don't have any proof of that.
The biblical model actually states that before the flood, mankind and civilization was very far advanced.
In the beginning, man was created in the image of God, etc., etc.
And all the evidence we're finding in the geological record shows not only do dinosaurs and man live together, which is correspondent with the biblical model, because they were all created together in the beginning, but also that what we're finding in the geological record, both in arid climates in rock fossils, and also, though, under the ice in areas, are
large trees and plants that, some of which are the same species of those we have today, but are anywhere from five to 50 times larger than they are today.
Tryanosaurus Rex definitely was your basic meat eater.
Man is basically meat.
Many things.
But to a Tryanosaurus, we would have been sort of a bite-size appetizer for a really big man, as opposed to big man.
Here is a story appearing or running in the Arizona Republic used by New York Times news service clients.
NASA rejects scientists' findings of lunar ruins.
The last thing NASA wanted to be doing Thursday was responding to claims that an ancient civilization left artifacts on the moon.
The space agency would have preferred to talk instead about its plans to explore Mars or about an educational campaign that will be unveiled today by Apollo 13 astronaut Jim Lovell to rekindle public support for space research.
No such luck.
Instead, National Aeronautics and Space Administration officials found themselves responding to accusations that they have suppressed evidence of lunar ruins of a lost race.
I've got another Associated Press article here, so I'll tell you what it is.
And what it is is last week when Richard Hoagland was on before, I turned this tape over to my pastor just because he has an interest in science and so forth.
And he saw something much, much deeper in this.
To make a long story short, it goes back to a, I think, called the gap theory, which talks about Satan and his ruining the earth in a pre-adamic time, you know, before Adam was here, which would explain the dinosaurs, you know, quite literally, because they would have been here long before Adam, obviously.
But listen, I was looking through the Bible here, or looking through what's called a concordance, and I found references to crystal.
Here's the what if.
What if these things were made by angelic beings before the creation of mankind?
Anybody's welcome to paraphrase, but I don't allow Bible precise quoting.
You know, no scripture quoting.
We'll get that in church.
But any discussion of religion is welcome on this program.
Or if you want to paraphrase what it says in the Bible, that's fine, too.
I just resist and always have precise quotes.
Oh, this is interesting.
Here's a little article from the London Telegraph.
Most beef eaters already exposed to mad cow agent.
Great.
By David Fletcher, health services correspondent.
Most people who ate beef before the beginning of the mad cow disease epidemic will have been exposed to the agent which causes it, doctors say.
In a report on possible links between human and animal forms of the disease, they say that by the time the first clinical cases were recognized in 1987, many thousands of cattle were already incubating bovine, well, I'm going to call it BSE.
And a great majority of these will have been eaten.
Dr. William Patterson, consultant in public health medicine, and Dr. Stephen Daylor, consultant medical microbiologist at Burnley General Hospital say, in the Journal of Public Health Medicine, I might add, that there can be no dispute that the human food chain has become contaminated with BSE.
But they're still uncertain, technically, whether it can cause CJD.
That's the human form of it.
I'll tell you, this is really a frightening development.
And the people in England are scared.
Well, I remember eating some beef when I was in France.
If you don't turn that radio off, I'm going to have to leave the length.
unidentified
Okay, I was just listening the other day, the Christian that called you, and the reason the Christians try to talk to you with Scripture is so that you'll understand what the Bible means.
Well, that's fine, but that is one of my ground rules on this process.
unidentified
I know, I know.
I love to hear you talk about the cat, and I think you're a wild and witty guy, but there's connections between Richard Holdland, what he's saying about space, God and the pyramids at Giza, what harp is going on.
You know, you make me mad and then you make me laugh, and then I forgive you.
Oh, well, all right.
But there's more to what Richard Hoagland's saying also, and I don't think he realizes what he's dabbling in, and I think he's sort of getting into his own glory there a little bit.
And Osh invited me to dinner and all that.
He's a bright man, he's onto something, but he's going to be like, he's making himself sort of like a stooge for these people who are just blocking him out.
You struggle along, you try to get something out, and then you get accused of being a stooge.
I don't think he's a stooge.
Now, I know exactly what it is you're saying.
You just didn't want to say it all the way.
I've had lots of messages from Christian organizations suggesting that investigating the possibility of mankind having been here for this period of time is an evil thing.
And there's lots of faxes going about the Christian community saying, with respect to programs like the mysterious origins of man, the investigative path of Richard Hoagland and others, scared to death of it.
Look, I more than anybody understand the paradigms that are being threatened here.
I think Richard does not grasp because he is not involved in as deeply as I am looking at and listening to a cross-section of the American public.
So I understand the paradigms that are challenged, the careers, and the basic forces of nature that are being tampered with politically and religiously.
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Thank you.
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So there's GMX.
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And as a secondary benefit, it will let the minerals get through so that when you drink a glass of water, you get to drink the minerals because you need minerals.
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Call 1-800-4060-GMX.
That's 1-800-4060-GMX.
Somebody on video is saying, is that your left hand?
No, it's my right hand.
The same one that was ruined by having its thumb turned backwards, now is in the middle of being infected with mad cat disease.
We'll be right back.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 21st, 1996.
I'm what you would call an American native, what I call an American Indian, and I do American Indian craft work.
Well, I know where to send letters, but where would I send a package if I wanted to send you a gift of a piece of beadwork?
To the absolutely.
Okay, fine.
I wanted to ask you something.
I've been a parapsychologist for 35 years now, and I've read practically everything Brad Steiger has done, and something's starting to bother me.
In one of his latest books, The Rainbow Conspiracy, right at the first of the book, he mentions something that is a little weird even for him.
That supposed, mind you, ex-NASA scientists said that there are underground bases where the government is mixing human parts with a kind of liquid for the graze to eat.
Look, I think that what we eat, the food we eat, contributes to what we are.
Garbage in, garbage out.
It's one more possibility.
There's no question about it.
One more possibility.
With regard to the way we act, to our social degeneration?
Sure.
You can't rule anything out.
You really can't.
And I say this in all sincerity, with respect for science and those who practice it, a lot of times they don't know what the hell they're talking about.
And they've got to take their words and eat their words.
A lot of good that frequently does to people who have consumed British beef, for example.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
unidentified
Yeah, R. Bill, this is Brian from Federal A. Hi, Brian.
Hey, I got a couple comments here.
And the first one's on a lesser note here.
Sure.
Do you know if HAARP is really planning on powering up their system this weekend?
As a matter of fact, tonight, really, is what I've heard, Friday night.
HAARP should be underway.
unidentified
I got an uneducated warning for Leonard and all those other select antenna users out there dialing in on your antenna this weekend might be hazardous to your health.
And each time they finally learned from their mistakes, and they were able to learn from that to where not to think logically, but to take what they've learned and go on and live.
Oh, another great show that I can't get to sleep because of.
Oh, I'm watching, while I'm listening to you, the CBS Up to the Minute News, and they've been showing videotapes from England of cows trembling and falling over and people being hospital beds.
Now, you would think that I would be willing to quit after half that number, but it happened in a flash.
Like, I grabbed the cat, he turned around and sunk his teeth in, and how stupid is it?
Three seconds later, you know, I realized I had been bitten, but three seconds later, as he's trying to get away, because of course I dropped him when he bit me.
Normal human reaction.
I grabbed him again, and he bit me again.
now that's stupid First time caller line, you're on the air.
That does not translate to they have been here or they're making human soup out of us down in underground bunkers or something.
All right.
Well, thank you very much.
You know, people misinterpret a lot of what I say and do, and they generally translate a lot of the material that I have on the air into my belief system.
Well, it just isn't necessarily so.
I am a person who searches for truth wherever it may lead, and I have not found the end of the path with regard to aliens.
I have no idea whether there are aliens.
I have no absolute proof there are, whether they've ever been here or are here now.
I don't.
I present people who talk about it, who deliver evidence, who deliver artifacts, who deliver testimony.
But until I lay my hands on a gray, or I get to run my hand over their rugged little reptilian skin, I'm not going to know for sure.
And that applies to just about everything I go after on this program.
Just because I investigate it does not and should not, in your mind or anybody else's, translate to, I believe in the following.
Because, number one, I didn't even think they had the votes.
Number two, even if they did, the president has already promised a veto.
unidentified
Well, you know, just the fact that they would do that disturbs me, and it bothers me, and Well, I think it shows you where the Republicans are going anyway.
Representative, since you've brought it up, Representative after Representative has said on the floor, look, these weapons are no different than any other semi-automatic weapons.
Let me say, lastly, that your guest that you had on, he gets a lot of criticism, but I want to say that I think from listening to him, he seems to be an extremely intelligent guy.
I happen to disagree with him.
Personally, I feel that societies probably should be separated.
Meaning that the best, the greatest thing that God ever did is separate technological societies by hundreds of light years.
Well, I'm getting, as predictable, I'm getting a million little faxes like this.
Do not mess around with a cat bite.
It can be terribly serious.
I experienced the same with my feral cat.
Go to the emergency room.
I'm not kidding.
Especially if the cat's teeth came down on the top and bottom of a joint.
Uh, yes, they did.
I had 1.2 million units of penicillin, was on Teflex for 21 days.
The injury is no joke.
Yeah, I know.
I'm watching it closely.
I was an Air Force medic, and I, you know, I got peroxide on it early and fast, and Epsom salts, and started on some antibiotics that I've got.
And so I'm watching it.
If it swells or gets weird or begins to streak or infect, I will rush over to the local emergency room and have them stick me in the butt, whatever it is they're going to do.
So I'm watching it.
I'm not going to panic.
unidentified
No!
No!
now if you notice any more that be sure and let me know you You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 21st, 1996.
About the difference between smooth glass and the surface of the moon.
unidentified
That's pretty good.
So in mortals, actually, it's kind of true.
In mortals, the DNA chains shorten with aging.
The DNA chains in tumors, which are immortal, of course, always remember to correctly finish off their amino acid helixes.
You know, In other words, they complete their chains with each cell division, while as people, human beings, mortal animals age, they kind of forget to finish off those chains.
And I was thinking about that woman in France to tie it back to bad news, the one who's going on 121.
It really is true and probably at the both of us, Elizabeth.
unidentified
Well, you know, there are solutions or at least mitigations.
You know, I'm fairly well read for every single thing that has been brought up on this show.
And many of these solutions are synchronistic, but we're just not thinking about it.
For example, if we implemented the hemp plan, we would solve the biomass problem, save the old growth, raise the sperm count, close the ozone hole because there wouldn't be any more chlorinated hydrocarbons or xenoestrogens, and we put a half a trillion a year into the economy.
But we can't grow hemp, and we can't save the forest, and we can't save the sperm, and we can't make farmers rich, and we can't save ourselves because the Christians are politically organized to stop us.
You know, they're afraid we'll smoke that bale of hemp it would take to have a mild high.
I have spoken to my friend, the animal nutritionist in England.
And now it appears we human meat-eaters may be getting the last laugh on the veggies.
Because this disease has the ability to move throughout the food chain.
It appears England today is now studying the milk and dairy products, too.
Oh, God, I forgot about those.
It is possible for it to dump into the dairy herds through breeding.
Also, while the U.S. is playing down the problem here, as the kid of a farmer who's raised beef for 100 years in Illinois, and my folks owned a restaurant that served it, we Americans have been importing breeding stock from Britain for years.
It is indeed possible this disease has come into the U.S. and we just don't know it.
Quietly today, when talking with my family back in Illinois, the beef processing facilities are checking the beef very closely for any signs.
The vet at the plant told my cousin that they didn't want to panic the public yet.
Also, if I didn't tell you, according to the British experts, you can't cook BSE out of a steak either.
If you want to talk to my real expert, let me know.
She said she would be willing to talk to you about it.
2020 called her already for an opinion.
They acted scared when she gave them the entire story.
Of course I would talk to her.
Of course I would.
So I will contact you, the person who sent this information, and we will indeed have your expert on the air.
I'd be more than happy to do that.
This is a hot and current topic.
I really can't believe what's going on in England.
I just can't believe it.
Dear Ardbell, to your mentioning that some comets are harbingers of doom.
Well, isn't it coincidental the current comet will be closest and most visible at the same time Taiwan is to hold its election, this being the burr under China's saddle.
Curious in Seattle, it's signed.
Certainly, my comet was a harbinger of doom, wasn't it?
My personal opinion, and I've got other ideas, and I don't know if I've got enough time to explain into it, but religion has nothing to do with the only logical reason why NASA would want to attempt to cover up the possibility of existing life forms outside of our own solar system or within it.
It's all got to do with who's in control of NASA and who's getting the bucks in the project itself.
To subsequent the fact to give us a desire to reach beyond means we're going to have to grow.
And it means we're going to have to grow beyond the means of those people who are in control of the system itself, and they don't want to let go.
All comes down to, like I said, I don't know how far Prompt is from Henderson, but I was stationed at Nellis in 82 when the plant that creates the propane fuel for the space shuttle program went boom.
Casually, I don't know if you've ever seen a video of that, but it looked exactly like a nuclear detonation.
unidentified
Yes, it did.
And the cloud was white because, you know, liquid propane more or less implodes rather than explodes.
It's one of the most volatile substances in business.
And I personally jumped up and down for joy because I figured I could not understand or believe that the powers to be in NASA would be able to bull Congress into rebuilding that plant to use a propulsion system for a space project that was 30 years outdated.
And, you know, you're talking about a cosmetic difference, and they're arguing about it.
And the only reason I didn't even bother bringing it up tonight is, one, they don't have the votes.
Two, this is a payoff to the NRA.
And three, even if by some miracle it passed, this president is going to veto it.
So it's not going to happen.
I don't even know what they're fighting about.
unidentified
Well, the funny thing is, is people are going to have them whether it's vetoed or not.
They're still going to be available.
They're still going to enter the country, whether they're made here or not.
People are still going to get guns.
And I think one of the things that separates this country from a lot of countries is the fact that the people have enough firepower to fight a police state.
And I think, you know, it hasn't come to pass that that's become necessary, and heaven forbid it ever will.
But I think that's an important factor.
And I think, you know, basically, if you want to, if you say that one person shoots another, and that's wrong, outlaw guns, if one person clubs another to death, you don't outlaw clubs.
I just wanted to say, first off, how can someone who speaks so eloquently as Elizabeth be so naive and want to put millions on welfare by hurting the beef industry?
But when it comes down to it, the one thing that's held our civilization back more than anything else has been Western religion time and time again.
I think it's just gotten to where science is so far ahead of it now that it can't be stopped.
You know, we're just going to keep shooting out there.
But over and over again, Western religions, Christianity in particular, has managed to just really put the whole reins on our ability to evolve and shoot forward.
Of course they're going to figure out ways to explain off anything that happens.
Okay, if there are things on the moon, then maybe God and his angels build them there.
It's God's amusement park, whatever.
But it doesn't matter.
As long as they just explain it off and quit pointing the devil at everything.
I don't care whether you want to attribute the evil part of it to that which is within us that causes us to use them, but as substances, their use is evil.