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Feb. 15, 1996 - Art Bell

02:55:09

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Western Bigfoot Society - Ray Crowe

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unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 15th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening this morning across all these many time zones, stretching from the Tahitian Islands, brings a certain vision, Hawaii, all the way across this great flyover land through the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands South, well into South America North to Santa Country and the Pole.
		This is Live Overnight Talk Radio.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		The program is named Coast to Coast A.M. Ever the Same.
		Always something a little different for you.
		Tonight shall be no exception.
		I want to tell you I've got a big announcement coming up at midnight tonight.
		I have a time in about 55 minutes, something like that.
		Big announcement, and so I will just clench my teeth and not say a whole lot more about it.
		I've now got two other announcements that I'm going to make.
		One is a tomorrow night's program.
		I had occasion to, for about 30 minutes today, talk with the program manager, the director, the guy who is running Project HARP in Alaska, John Hecher.
unidentified		He's in Boston.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I talked to him for about 30 minutes, and I had a whale of a conversation with him, which I did not regard as a satisfactory conversation for a number of reasons, and they will become apparent tomorrow night when I have Dr. Nick Begich back on the program from Alaska.
		And yeah, that's right.
		We're going to talk about HAARP.
unidentified		Believe me, we're going to talk about HARP.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you don't want to miss that.
		That's tomorrow night.
		A little change of plans.
		Dr. Nick Begich's subject HARP is a result of a conversation I had earlier today.
		So we're going to look once again into this incredible project up in Alaska with what's called an ionospheric heater and the implications of it and my conversations with the director.
		And we're going to talk a little bit once again with Dr. Begich about that for reasons, as I said, that are going to become very apparent to you.
		Now, tonight, I'm going to do something here in the first hour in a moment that I've been very much wanting to do and I've been pursuing, as a lot of you know, and that is the story of Bigfoot.
		So I've been looking for somebody who knows something about Bigfoot, and Ray was going to be with us tomorrow evening, but I've moved him up to this evening for the latter reasons regarding what's going to occur tomorrow night.
		And Ray was kind enough to jump up to the position, and so in a moment we're going to a man who heads the Western Bigfoot Association in Oregon.
		His name is Ray Crow and he'll be with us in just a moment.
unidentified		Skiss
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		I think now, as we look back, we can probably say with pretty good certainty that some people in government might have been aware of what was going on and they turned their cheek the other way just to let it happen.
		I also believe that some bigger groups got involved with al-Qaeda to do what they did on that horrible day.
		This wasn't just a small group of people who came in and did their thing.
		There was a much bigger picture there.
		And if you see the events that have unfolded since this tragedy occurred, how we've lost rights, how we used it to go in Afghanistan and Iraq, and how it has really not stopped, because it's going to continue.
		We're going to have more and more episodes and more and more involvement in other countries.
		And just mark my word, this planet is going through an incredible change.
		And thank God we've got you here to talk with us about it.
		Now we take you back to the night of February 15, 1996 on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now I'm going up to Oregon, and I'm not sure we're in Oregon, we'll ask, a place where Ray Crowe is.
		He heads the Western Bigfoot Association.
		Ray, good evening.
unidentified		Good evening.
unidentified		How are you, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine.
		Thank you for taking the time to join us this evening.
		Ray, I have been desperately seeking information, good information, on the whole Bigfoot thing.
		We've heard so much about it.
		I've even got a Bigfoot sound, a yell that purports to be Bigfoot, and I frankly think might be.
		I don't know.
		First of all, Ray, how did you get involved?
		What's the Western Bigfoot Association, and what's it all about?
unidentified		Well, Western Bigfoot Society is just one of those things that popped up out of nowhere.
		I have a little used bookshop, and one of my customers is interested in Bigfoot, and managed to get me interested in it back in the summer of 91.
		And they took me out into the field, and right off the bat, I was finding things.
		As a matter of fact, so many that I thought it was being set up.
		But I finally came to the conclusion, no, it was just coincidental, and there was something out there doing strange things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean you thought they were like the old gold prospectors that would scatter nuggets out in the fields?
unidentified		Yes, exactly, yeah.
		But the group that took me out was the kind that, oh, they like to ride back and forth in their cars with their guns and things like that, and dressed in camo gear.
		And I'd been a naturalist most of my life, and I liked to just get out and snoop around on foot.
		And so I had them deliberately leave me behind, which is something if they were setting me up, they wouldn't have known about.
		But they weren't gone 15 minutes before I found a set of Bigfoot tracks going down the side of the road.
		And that's when I thought I was being set up.
		But then again, I found a...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They chose the location, right?
unidentified		Yes, uh-huh.
		And it was a little campsite, and it was way back up in the hills, and we'd stayed overnight there.
		This is up near Yale Reservoir in Washington.
		Incidentally, you're talking to Portland, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay, good.
unidentified		Yes, and so I found a game trail.
		They told me to watch game trails because the Bigfoot likes to eat deer and elk and things.
		And right off the bat there, I found trees that were broken at heights that didn't really appear to be something a human would have done.
		And then I found a big long hair on one of the trees.
		And to this day, those people won't talk to me because I kept the hair.
		Which has made me think, well, gee, I might very well have a good hair.
		There are ways this day and age to test these things to see whether they're good or not.
		But, gee, I'm getting an awful lot of mileage out of this, and I hate to give it to some scientist to cut up and lose in his back drawer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as a matter of fact, there's some scientist, it's a wire story, that is now, they are testing some Bigfoot fur or hair, whatever you want to call it.
unidentified		Well, yes and no.
		The problem with this is the fellow that selected the hair was on Good Morning America once and said that he faked tracks.
		And so that, you know, we immediately wonder, well, I wonder where the hair came from.
		He submitted some hair once before that turned out to be synthetic fibers.
		Right.
		And so, you know, we're just holding our breath.
		You know, we'll wait and see.
		You know, even the worst drunk coaxer, drug addict, whatever, could see a Bigfoot and could find Bigfoot evidence.
		So, you know, we're not writing him off completely, but we're keeping a pretty jaundiced eye on him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I take it you are sort of a even though you speak on the subject, you're a little bit skeptical, or skeptical at least of the claims made by many people in the field about things.
unidentified		Yes, I am.
		As a matter of fact, I'm very skeptical.
		But I listen to everything, and I don't let my skeptism overrun when I'm talking to somebody.
		No, I think I just let them know like they're telling me the truth.
		I do have a newsletter, and then I write all these things up in my newsletter, and I let my readers decide, well, hey, is this a good report or not?
		If something hokey shows up, I'll try to include that, too.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Ray, what is the best evidence so far that you've seen, and you pay attention to all of this, for the existence of this creature?
unidentified		Well, so far right now, I suppose everybody's seen the Roger Patterson film from October 1967 of the Bigfoot running across the creekbed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		And we all think that's a good photo, and that's real good evidence that Bigfoot actually exists.
		And then we go on from there, and there's footprints found all over hair, dropping samples.
		I've had a lot of hair samples come in, though, and I keep having them checked all the time.
		And, you know, they're bear or horse or dog or something like that.
		Nothing that really stands out as being Bigfoot.
		Same thing, the fecal droppings that come in.
		There's just no way of checking them.
		What we need is for somebody that sees a Bigfoot to just run up and grab a handful of hair out of him.
		I don't have the evidence we need.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		Well, I've come in Joshua, of course.
		We do have one person that's oriented in that direction.
		I don't know.
		I suppose a lot of your listeners have heard of Peter Byrne before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a familiar name, yeah.
unidentified		Okay, he's very well funded from the Boston Academy of Science, has a lot of really high-tech equipment.
		And his idea is using motion detectors and infrared cameras and things that transmit back to the home base to pick up a Bigfoot spur or something moving through the woods that will move his motion detectors.
		It's over 300 pounds.
		And they'll sight one of these things.
		Well, they have a contract with Hillsborough Helicopter here in Oregon.
		And what they will do is go up with one of those infrared devices and hunt for the creature.
		Well, assuming they do find one, then they use the geosatellite location devices to track its movements with, and then they'll try and on the ground get a choke point.
		That is, you know, force it into some place where they can get close to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a really serious effort.
unidentified		And they have a very sophisticated dart device.
		It's not the kind that knocks them out, it's a hollow one.
		And what they want to do is take a tissue sample.
		And this is a device that's been used in Southeast Asia on orangutans and doesn't seem to hurt the creatures at all and seems to be very reliable.
		In this case, and then we'll have our sample.
		That's the equivalent of running up and grabbing a handful of hair, of course.
		We really wish him the best of luck on this, and we support them all we can.
		I have an awful lot of reports that come into my organization, which is Western Bigfoot Society, incidentally.
		Thank you.
		And I'm the director.
		And we're just really, really hoping that something comes.
		He has another year and a half to run on this project, and everything's in place that we know of.
		Reports keep coming in all the time.
		We don't know whether they're good or whether they're bad.
		All right, that's one approach.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is a non-lethal approach to Bigfoot.
		There is a scientist up in Washington State, and I think it was one of the Seattle papers, and then otherwise in other papers, there was a report that suggested he's saying, look, the first Bigfoot any hunter, anybody finds, ought to be shot and killed.
		And when the second one is shot and killed, whoever did it ought to be hung.
		He's saying for the sake of science that at least one Bigfoot ought to be shot, killed, and I presume dissected and examined at great length.
		And that's the reasoning behind what he's saying.
		What do you think about that?
unidentified		Well, we're talking to Dr. Krantz, of course, and he's very well known, and his opinions are very well known.
		We just think they're rather outdated is all.
		You know, back in the 1930s and so forth, if you wanted to find a new panda or a new whatever, he always brought in a corpse and dissected it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		But today, things have changed a lot, and people's attitudes have changed a lot towards things out in the wild.
		And there's a very good probability this thing is human.
		Which brings up a whole new story, of course, in the event that you killed one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it certainly would.
unidentified		Pardon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It'd be called murder.
unidentified		Yes, we'll get to that.
		You've got plenty of time.
		As a matter of fact, I've got a pretty good story to tell you on that, too.
		Anyways, there's an awful lot of people like Peter Byrne.
		Peter Byrne used to be a tiger hunter way back down when.
		But he reversed around and has become a strict conservationist.
		He's just returned recently from Nepal, where he's been working on a wildlife reserve.
		And I had a hint that he was chasing down people who were poisoning tigers and such.
		But he doesn't want to see one of these things harmed in any way, shape, or form.
		That's the reason the DART approach.
		Many other people have thought of tranquilizing him in the past.
		But that could be very dangerous also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, tranquilizers, I think, have to take into account the mass, weight, size of the animal.
unidentified		Exactly.
		And if you're wrong, then the animal could very well die or could get pretty pissed at getting darted and chasing.
		I don't know if I can say that on the radio or not.
		Too late anyways.
		But it could come right after you, too.
		So we tell everybody, you know, just when you see something like that, photograph it, look at everything you can.
		Try to communicate if you can.
		Oddly enough, these things are incredibly curious.
		I have many, many reports.
		As a matter of fact, my first story, I was told by this old fellow up in Carson, Washington, Davis Perry is his name, that if you take a stick and you wrap it on a stump or a tree and make a knocking noise, and you do it in a pattern like three wraps and pause and two wraps and pause, you'll get an answer.
		And so I spent all day wandering around the woods feeling like a fool doing this one day.
		But all of a sudden I got an answer.
		And it just floored me.
		I was just really shocked.
		And I've mentioned this to several other people since then, and they've had the same results.
		Quite a few people, as a matter of fact.
		And I found that there was a society at one time in California, the Bay Area group, where they've done the same thing.
		And they'd even written a paper on it.
		A fellow had made a big drum-like thing and taken it up in the woods and banged it around and had replies.
		Something to do with the curiosity of the things, or maybe it's some communication thing that they recognize themselves and use.
		We just don't really know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Well, what about this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You alluded to the fact that Bigfoot might be human.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What exactly do you think Bigfoot is?
unidentified		Okay, now my personal opinion, and there's lots and lots of people that disagree with this, Dr. Krantz in particular, I think it's an early man, and I'm going for a relic Homo erectus.
unidentified		And I have a lot of reasons for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait, wait.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A relic Homo erectus.
unidentified		Yes, it's something that they disappeared from our scene half a million years ago.
		And scientists believe they're extinct.
		But there's a lot of us that believe, well, there's always a few of them hanging around still in the Caucasus Mountains, in Asia, even in Europe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you talking now about an earlier version of man?
unidentified		Yeah, well, Java ape man, or Peking man, was a Homo erectus.
		I think most people are familiar with those terms, although we have a half a million years of evolution to account for.
		That's why I say a relic.
		One of the main reasons I think this is that the Patterson creature that we were talking about earlier is a female and has breast.
		Humans have breast.
		Apes do not.
		Dr. Krantz believes the thing is a relic ape called Gigantopithecus that supposedly went extinct about the same time.
		I don't agree with him.
		A lot of other people do agree with him.
		I get into a lot of good arguments from time to time.
		There'll be no way of proving that until that dart actually gets into one of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would that one moving video we have lend itself toward one theory or the other?
unidentified		The Patterson one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Yeah, the thing has breast.
		And that's my main thing from it.
		There's a lot of other, one of the arguments is, you know, well, if it's an early man, Why is it hairy?
		Because early men were great brave hunters and they chased antelope over the plains until they dropped and therefore they lost their hair and became man.
		But now science is beginning to look just exactly to the opposite.
		He thinks those early people were scavengers and not hunters.
		Very well, they might be hairy.
		The size, Bigfoots are reported to be pretty good size.
		That one there in California was 7'3, I believe.
		But then Homo erectus is a pretty good guy.
		Leakey has uncovered one in Africa, Naracomi boy, I think they call it.
		He was a six-footer, and generally they're six-footers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm six feet.
unidentified		Okay, right, uh-huh.
unidentified		And which isn't really when you consider our average human span from some of our basketball players and their feet, you can see, well, there's no big stretch of the imagination to get a Bigfoot out of it at seven foot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
		You describe them then, really, as humans.
		In other words, I almost imagine that a Bigfoot could either be part of society or just be a human being not caring one bit for society and living in the wild as other animals live in the wild.
unidentified		That's a yes and no, but we're talking about two different species.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		For instance, Ray, hold your thought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ray, hold your thought there.
		We're at a break point.
		We've got a break here at the bottom of the hour.
		Ray Crow is my guest.
		He's director of the Western Bigfoot Society up in Oregon in Portland, as a matter of fact, and we'll be back with Ray in just a moment.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 15, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from February
		Coast to Coast AM from February 15, 1996.
		15, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from February 15, 1996.
		You're listening to Mark Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 15th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And top of the morning.
		Or evening, everybody.
		Whatever the case may be, welcome in.
		I'm Art Bell.
		And you are listening to Coast to Coast AM.
		My guest is Ray Crowe, director of the Western Bigfoot Society.
unidentified		and he'll be back here in just a moment Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
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		Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up.
		Explore your universe with Coast2Coast AM and George Norrie.
		If this was up to you, would you go back to the moon or would you go straight to Mars?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's not even the question I would ask.
unidentified		There could be scientific reasons to go to one destination, geopolitical reasons to go to another.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There could be tourist business reasons to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe you want to mine an asteroid.
unidentified		And so then when you reach that state, then the solar system becomes your backyard.
		And now you have the freedom to go where you want.
		That's what a space-faring nation needs to do.
		Now we take you back to the night of February 15, 1996 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Music
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going back to Ray Crowe, who is the director of the Western Bigfoot Society, is in Portland.
		We're talking about, Ray, what Bigfoot is.
		And I had a guy joking, obviously, I think, last night, send me a message.
		And the message was, I'm a Bigfoot, and I shave every day before I go to work.
		My whole body.
		Well, if a Bigfoot was hairless, could a Bigfoot, in your opinion, walk the streets of our cities and not be known or discerned?
unidentified		Well, I think he can put a suit on him, probably, and he would probably get by as long as nobody spoke to him.
		I don't think they have an oral language like we do.
		Their throats, I don't think, are built for it.
		But yes, I think he can put a hat on and a suit and a tie, and he can walk down the street if he was all shaved, clean-shaved.
		But that just gets a wet bit away from the music.
		A deer and an elk are in the same family of animals.
		But they're completely different.
		They have different habits, and they do different things, and they have different languages between them, whatever.
		The same is like with early humans and ourselves.
		I don't think we could breed.
		That's not for sure yet.
		But what I'm trying to make you say is there is a big distinction.
		And the thing I'd mentioned to you before about what I was talking about was in Scamania County in the state of Washington, it's against the law to kill a Bigfoot.
		And the reason they enacted that law was to keep people from running up all around in the woods with guns and so forth.
		But it's sort of been picked up as something that should be applied everywhere in the country.
		But to put this to a test once, we thought it'd be fun.
		We went to Carson, Washington, to the Bigfoot campground, and we had a meeting.
		This was last August.
		And our meeting was a mock trial.
		And the actual brunt of the whole thing was that the law reads that if the thing is an ape, and you convince the coroner that it's an ape, then it's only a gross misdemeanor to kill one.
		But if it is indeed proved to be human, then you're going to be bound over for murder.
		And so we had one of our members, Mr. Larry Lund, who's probably listening in.
		He volunteered to be the killer.
		And we got a stuffed gorilla costume and put it in a costume.
		And a bagpiper piped it in.
		And the police brought him in in handcuffs.
		We had a local sheriff was in on it.
		And we had, as a matter of fact, we had three judges show up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's kind of like the modern version of the sculpts trial, almost, isn't it?
unidentified		Well, exactly.
		With the exception of this particular time, we had O.J. on.
		And so we modeled it sort of after that.
		We had a pretty good judge up there, Barney, I can't think of his last name now.
		At any rate, he did a really excellent job.
		And we ended up with a hung jury, so I won't leave everybody hanging here.
		But we had two DNA experts, both of them PhDs, came in and testified.
		We had biologists, police officers, forest people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds like the DNA evidence didn't impress your jury any more than that of the OJ.
unidentified		Well, you know, our prime one came in.
		She had all big bottles of DNA and charts and graphs.
		And I think it really went over the head of most of the jury.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just like the OJ trial.
unidentified		And the other one came in and says, well, more or less like with the OJ type thing, that, hey, these tests were all proven to be invalid from that one place.
		Consequently, these are all in doubt, too.
		Which completely threw our other prosecutor for Lou, speaking of which, she was a very attractive young lady that flew up from Los Angeles to be our prosecuting attorney.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wasn't Marcia.
unidentified		That's what everybody called her.
		But yeah, so that's what the, I say there were a lot of comparisons with the O.J. trial here.
		But the point being is that this thing is thought of.
		People don't really know yet exactly what it is, whether it is an ape or whether it is a man.
		Rover Krantz wants to think that it's an ape because then it is okay to take a specimen to collect one.
		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, of course.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
unidentified		Whereas if it turns out to be human, then of course that would be out-and-out murder then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Scientific curiosity turns into murder.
unidentified		Right, uh-huh.
		And I'm sure if there ever was brought to trial, it'd end up being a circus at any rate.
		But still, the teeth are there, and maybe one of these days somebody, some hunter is going to do that, go up and knock one of them things off and say, hey, here I am.
		You know, I've killed one of them things.
		And, of course, immediately somebody will confiscate the body, and it'll end up being dissected, and he won't get anything out of it other than that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It'll probably be taken to an Air Force base somewhere.
unidentified		That's possible, too.
unidentified		It's possible that's already been done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it is.
		It really is.
		Of course, it'll be an air base in Ohio, no doubt.
unidentified		Yes, I have a tremendous amount of reports come in, and they're scattered all over the map in terms of what this creature is.
		I have people that believe in underground caves where they live as a society.
		I just had a report come in not too long back of a flying saucer near Ashcaudero, California that landed.
		Two of these things got out, took soil samples, got in, and flew off again.
		This is one of the, you know, being a skeptic, this is one of the reports.
		I report them faithfully, but I always have a lot of doubts about them.
		All right, well, I've got one for you, Ray.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stand by just a second.
		I want you to listen to this, Ray.
		Somebody that I respect very, very much, Linda Howe, who appears on my Sunday show Dreamland, got what seems to be a very, very credible tape of an alleged Bigfoot scream or yell actually recorded in the forest.
		And it was quite a long story that I'm not going to burden you with right now, Ray, but here is that sound.
unidentified		Sound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I'd be very much disinclined to run up and grab a hunk of hair of that thing.
unidentified		You know, as a matter of fact, I know the fellow who took that tape originally.
unidentified		Oh, you do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do.
		What can you tell us about it?
		What are you going to do?
unidentified		He thinks it's very good.
		As a matter of fact, I've had other tapes come in, two other tapes come in, and the sounds are very similar.
		There's another, both these are from Oregon, but then I have another one from North California, and they are still very similar.
		I think they've got an actual creature in there.
		I think it's a good tape.
		Yeah, so do I. The one that's from North California, they had done a bunch of tests in laboratories and so forth on it.
		And there were some pitches and things in there that just go outside of the range of anything that anybody else, any other animal normally makes.
		This is one of the, I don't know if it's a communication thing that is, here I am, you know, where's my mate?
		Or this is my territory.
		I don't want anybody else here.
		Even the robin will do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
unidentified		So there again, it's a matter of we've got to learn more about these things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, toward that end, and I'm probably asking you to speculate or guess now, but what else can you do when you're talking about Bigfoot?
		Is there any guess, has anybody made any guess about how many there might be?
		What is the population of Bigfoot?
		I mean it's silly to ask, I know, because we can barely get our hands on one or can't.
		But what do you think it might be?
unidentified		We've made a lot of approaches.
		We've done some analysis of population studies of gorillas and tried to compare them and things like that.
		And supposedly the best guess right now is Dr. Kranz's, and I'll go along with that, that for every 10 or 100 bears, there's one Bigfoot, which would mean across the nation there's thousands of them.
		Because these things occur in every state.
		We have reports from Florida and Pennsylvania are a couple of the biggest report areas.
		And then out on the west coast, of course, Oregon, Washington, and California.
		But there, you know, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, you wouldn't expect them out in these dry areas.
		No, you wouldn't.
		But there, again, it's because we have this thing in our head that, hey, these are deep forest things.
		The only place they live is in Virgin Forest.
		And that's not true.
		They like the secondary areas best.
		They come into the outskirts of communities, raid garbage cans, do all kinds of stuff like that, especially if it's a bad winter and they're hungry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds like what a bear would do.
unidentified		Exactly.
		You can pretty much pattern these things after the bears with the exception that they're a whole different critter.
		Right now we have a sort of a stroke of luck going.
		There's a town called Malala, Oregon, recently in the news from all the flooding and stuff.
		Oh, yeah.
		But anyway, on the Malala River south of town, there's one of the residents down there, and I don't know what his reasons are, but he's been putting cabbages and apples out for these things.
		Consequently, well, they're not really tame, but we get an awful lot of reports out of that area.
		And they seem to be good reports.
		We're getting them from responsible people who seem to know what they're doing.
		And they're going out there.
		At any rate, most recently, just, well, it'll be December now, was the last report.
		And the thing, it was pouring rain in the campground.
		And the thing was standing behind the tree, just staring at some campers.
		Stayed there for quite a while until one of the campers got up and walked towards it, and it faded back into the woods again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was also, Ray, wasn't there a recent, I can't remember whether it was a hard copy or one of those shows.
		They were doing a Hollywood shoot.
		Yes, and they were inside the car and they filmed this creature which walked across, you know, what we saw as the screen.
		They were shooting through the car window.
		Are you familiar with that?
unidentified		Yes, very familiar.
		As a matter of fact, we've studied that tape very closely.
		We had the original, quite a bit of different language than what they had on TV on hard copy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can imagine.
unidentified		But the point is, if you look at it real close, it almost seems like it's baggy in the legs.
		The feet are white.
		Our impression is that it's wearing tennis shoes.
		We don't think too much of that film.
		It might very well be real, but I don't think so.
		As a matter of fact, to tell the truth, the news media isn't really very discriminating.
		They're pretty sensationalistic, actually.
		So if something is reported on the newspaper or the TV or something like that to your listeners, you know, take very seriously the possibility of being hoaxed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let me extend that now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is a fellow named Cliff Crook.
unidentified		Yes, uh-huh.
		There's another one.
		The shadows go all different ways.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me set it up for you.
		I've got a photograph.
		It is Cliff Crook's photograph.
		I guess he says he bought it from somebody.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it shows what purport or looks like an ape with no neck.
		It's almost like the neck is connected directly to the body, and the arms are long, and it's hairy.
		And I know that you've seen it, and it's a fairly sharp, clear photograph of something weird.
unidentified		And what is it that you've made out of that?
		We think it's a model of some kind.
		There's all kinds of things that don't add up in that.
		For instance, it was supposedly taken in the summer, but the trees in the back don't have any leaves on it, like it was late fall or stuff.
		Some of the shadows don't match up.
		That is, they go one way and not the other way.
		Some of the grass in front of the thing, just normal grass is knee-high, meaning, hey, this is more probably just a model of some kind.
		We don't go along with that one at all either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, despite the fact that you've looked at some of these things that have really made the headlines, and you come away doubtful about them, you still have a basic belief that the Bigfoot thing is real, don't you?
unidentified		Exactly, right.
		The problem is about 90% of the reports that come in are hoaxes, errors, one thing or another, but that still doesn't mean I don't pay any attention to them because I know there are some of those reports that are good, and we do our best to investigate them all.
		But you never know.
		For instance, the Peter Byrne that I was talking about earlier once told me a story that he'd investigated of a state policeman that had come and told him about a Bigfoot sighting.
		Well, he went back with a state policeman, and the policeman was very embarrassed because there was just a big black stump there.
		Point being is that had he not gone to investigate that, then it would have gone down as a good sighting just because it was a state policeman.
		And so there are good stories, and there are going to be poor stories.
		That's why I say even drunk or dope addict or whatever, they could see one just as well as anybody else.
		We just have to look at the stories.
		We have one that just came in recently, and we'll be going to investigate that very soon as soon as the roads are open again.
		They're all landslides, closed roads east of Estaceda.
		And this is where a couple had gone into an old mining tunnel, and they were just poking around.
		And here was one of these things inside the front entrance of it.
		This is just east of the town of Estacada in Oregon.
		And that was, let me glance at my note here.
		That was January the 2nd.
		We want to go up there and check that one out real close.
		They reported also that there was a nest or bed inside made of sticks and moss and ferns.
		We'd like to check that out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do we know about the habitat of Bigfoot?
		Is it a nesting kind of thing, do you believe, or lives in caves or generally in the open?
		Or what's the best guess?
unidentified		Very, very mixed.
		We get reports of all these things, and it's hard to nail them down.
		That's why I'd like to nail some of these bed reports.
		I have a lot of bed reports, for instance, where they've done this, well, on sticks with ferns and moss and things.
		So I'm pretty much think that's what they're doing.
		There's other reports, though, that tell of the things just in the snowstorms, just buckling up on their knees and hunching their back and waiting out the snowstorm.
		So in terms of caves, I don't really get many good cave reports.
		This will be, that's one of the reasons we want to check this one out, because it might very well be a good cave report.
		But mostly even then, they're not deep caves like they live underground, but they'll be inside the lip or a rock overhang or something to keep out of the weather.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think Bigfoot would regard modern man as a predator?
unidentified		I'm sure every animal does if he was capable of regarding man as a predator.
		I'm sure many instances where people have taken pot shots at him.
		As a matter of fact, we often wondered, well, gee, what would be the attitude of a Bigfoot with a 22 shell in his shoulder towards white people then?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very poor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very poor.
unidentified		Right, uh-huh.
		And every now and then I do get unsubstantiated reports where these things are actually hurting people.
		But those reports are just really tough to substantiate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what advice would you give somebody if you actually in the woods or wherever else, even out in the open, encountered one of these creatures like any other wild animal, especially a bear?
unidentified		But don't run away.
		Study it.
		Like even if you run from a bear or any wild animal, there's a good chance they'll chase you.
		Whereas if you just stand still and ignore them or look the other way, don't stare them in the eyes.
		But take in all the detail you can.
		It'll be a unique experience if you run across one of these creatures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And try to remember what you can as a good witness.
unidentified		Yes, exactly.
unidentified		And make some notes, time of day, what the weather was, how long the creature's hair was, the shape of its head, of its eyes, things like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One other quick thing.
		I had multiple reports that Dan Rather on his nightly newscast on CBS the other night, twice, once at the beginning of the program, once at the end, made a statement that Bigfoot was being added to the endangered species list.
		Had you heard that?
unidentified		I've heard this, and I've heard that Dan Rather said that, and I've talked to several people about it, and so far the best I can get is until they prove it exists, they can't put it on the endangered species list.
		But, you know, there might have somebody else might have done it anyways.
		I don't really know.
		We haven't substantiated that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you say that there is enough proof of the existence of Bigfoot, even just by tales and photos and some moving video, to justify, if you could do it, would you put Bigfoot on endangered species list?
unidentified		That's a tough one to answer.
		I just don't really know, Art.
		Like we say, there's probably thousands of them.
		Once you put something out, you bring it to official notice, then museums are going to want to get out there and naturalists are going to want to get out there and poke around in their private lives, which may or may not be good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
		Ray, listen, we're out of time.
		And I want to tell the audience all we've done is give them a little tease.
		You're the guy I wanted for Bigfoot, and I've got you.
unidentified		Okay, can I give a pardon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going to have you on April 14th on Dreamland.
unidentified		Okay, bye-bye, Alex.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's Ray Crowe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 15, 1996.
		Music Don't you think you're going to be old?
		They're the party in the future.
		We'll take them all away from home.
		Take them all away from home.
		You're the joke of the neighborhood.
		You can see.
		We'll take them all away from home.
		Take the long way home Humiliation Music
		playing Music
		playing Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired February 15th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Top of the morning, everybody.
		Good to be here.
		Dear Art, love the show.
		We just, this is a fact about the last hour we did, if you're just joining us.
		We did one hour with Ray Crow up in Portland, who heads the Western Bigfoot Society.
		And it was a good hour.
		He'll be here April 14th on Greenland to do a show on Bigfoot.
		But Tom from Alhamara, California said, that tape you play, that's not a Bigfoot.
		That's a novice trying to install Windows 95.
		Yeah, I can imagine that might be the sound.
		Good evening, everybody.
		I'm Arthell, and this is Coast to Coast A.M. we've got a lot to do, and I've got some announcements.
		I spent about 30 minutes of talking with the program manager of the Heart Project.
		That's right.
		The big guy.
		And I'm not going to go into great detail about the nature of that conversation.
unidentified		He was in Boston.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I did invite him on the program.
		His bosses wouldn't let him go on the program, and I told him he'd get a fair and honest interview.
		That I am not somebody who generally pins my guests up to the wall and sweats them.
		I don't do that.
		But without going into detail, he's not going to come on.
		Will come on.
		And despite my best urgings, and I mentioned to him, and he's well aware, has heard the show with Dr. Nick Begich in Alaska on HARP.
		Despite all that and the bad PR that HARP has had, and I said, look, I'll give you a genuine opportunity to come on here and tell your side of the story.
		I did ask him a number of technical questions.
		And to sum it up, I was not at all pleased with the answers I got.
unidentified		And that made me a little angry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I called Dr. Begich up in Alaska.
		And Dr. Begich is scheduled to be here tomorrow night.
		Okay, 11 o'clock tomorrow night.
		And we'll go into some more detail about what the director of HAARP said and what Dr. Begich says.
		But the director of HAARP has absolutely, the program manager has absolutely been given an opportunity to come on this program.
		And I said, repair whatever damage you think has been done to the reputation, public relations reputation of the HAARP project.
		Dr. Nick Begich is articulate, very bright guy with a lot of good, hard scientific data on what HAARP is and what it can do.
		Enough said, that'll be tomorrow night.
		Tomorrow night.
		Now, I've got an announcement to make, and I've been waiting a long, long time to make this.
		It is with regard to my book.
		I wrote a book a lot of you new listeners will not even know because I haven't been talking a lot about it lately.
unidentified		It's called The Art of Talk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I poured a lot of my blood, sweat, and tears into this book.
		First, I thought I would never write a book, but these wonderful people at Paper Chase Press came along.
		I had an offer from HarperCollins and blah, blah, blah, big companies, a couple other big companies, and I didn't do it.
		As I don't do TV, but Paper Chase came along, and they actually came down here and saw me and met with me.
		And they were fans of the show, and I think that's what helped.
		They knew the show.
		They knew what I wanted to do.
		And so we did it.
		And we wrote this book, The Art of Talk.
		It's a hardback book of the highest quality.
		And it's about my life.
		And believe me, I've had a weird one.
		It's about talk radio, the behind the scenes things over the years that I've wanted to be able to tell people about this program and what I've done.
		And I've been doing this program for going on 12 years now.
		Even though it may be new to a lot of you.
		So, you know, obviously in 12 years, you collect a lot of things that you can't really talk about on the air.
		I decided that I was going to write a book that was going to be really bluntly honest.
		And believe me, that's what this book is, bluntly honest.
		Well, it turned out to be a huge success.
		It's actually about to go into the third printing now.
		And finally, we have an offer for you tonight that you're going to love.
		You know, I'm doing a book signing.
		It'll be March 16th at the Oregon Convention Center in Portland.
		And I'm looking forward to seeing you there.
		There will be a very limited number of books for sale there.
		There will be some, but there'll be a limited number, so you'd really be better to order now.
		And I'm going to make it very easy for you to do so.
		About, how long has it been?
		A month, month and a half ago, the Los Angeles Times did a big story on me.
		Oh, boy, I'll tell you something.
		The L.A. Times reporter came up here, and we spent, I believe, about six hours together.
		And he brought with him a photographer who took about six rolls of film.
		Well, the shop they chose to run in the L.A. Times was a really good photograph.
		And so what happened is Paper Chase negotiated with the L.A. Times people, and they got the rights to that photograph.
		And this has been going back and forth and back and forth for a while.
		Anyway, the bottom line is, it is a pretty cool photograph, and we've had it blown up into a beautiful 8x10 photograph, glossy 8x10 photograph, you know, that you could put in a frame.
		And I think you'll like, and I think it catches me in a very fair way, a decent way.
unidentified		I like the picture.
		Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
		You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price.
		The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app.
		You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows.
		That's over a thousand shows for you to collect and enjoy.
		If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
		Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up.
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
		I think now, as we look back, we can probably say with pretty good certainty that some people in government might have been aware of what was going on and they turned their cheek the other way just to let it happen.
		I also believe that some bigger groups got involved with al-Qaeda to do what they did on that horrible day.
		This wasn't just a small group of people who came in and did their thing.
		There was a much bigger picture there.
		And if you see the events that have unfolded since this tragedy occurred, how we've lost rights, how we used it to go in Afghanistan and Iraq, and how it has really not stopped.
		Because it's going to continue.
		We're going to have more and more episodes and more and more involvement in other countries.
		And just mark my word, this planet is going through an incredible change.
		And thank God we've got you here to talk with us about it.
		Now we take you back to the night of February 15, 1996 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Music
		All right, the debates.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I saw the debates, actually not once, but twice.
		I saw them when they began, when they ran live on CNN.
		And then I saw a very, very interesting replay of them.
		I turned on CNN at 9 o'clock Pacific Time, and they were running the debates again.
		But this time, they had a little approval, disapproval meter.
		It was really interesting.
		They had about 40, 35, 40 people, chosen people, who had a little device in their hand.
		And they could, you know, it went between 0 and 10.
		And when they liked something, they could turn it up.
		And when they didn't like something, they could turn it down.
		And they divided this between men and women.
		And they had, as the candidates would talk, I dreamed about this for years.
		It was like a detectometer.
		And these lines would go up and down and up and down, indicating whether the people, individually men and women, were approving or disapproving of what they were hearing.
		It's the dandest thing you ever saw.
		Not a running lie detector or voice stress test, but the next best thing, 35 or 40 people collectively, and by the way, generally seemingly in agreement, judging what the candidates were saying, and they let this graph go during the debate.
		It was amazing.
		Now, I think that I generally found myself pretty much in agreement with those people.
		And you could watch as various statements were made and lines were followed by the candidates or negative remarks were made or positive things were said.
		You could watch a little graph go up and down below the center line, either in approval or sharp disapproval.
		Now, to me, in both cases, the clear winner of the debates was Alan Keyes.
		Dr. Keyes, and I've interviewed him here.
		Articulate, convincing, academically sound, very much the biggest social conservative there, in my opinion.
		Alan Keyes was spectacular.
		Absolutely spectacular.
		The audience seemed to like Steve Forbes, said things designed to please New Hampshire residents that are not wild about tax.
		Steve Forbes came off, frankly, pretty well.
		Lamar Alexander.
		How many of you noticed that as Lamar talked, he was obviously very nervous.
		He was kind of bobbing up and down a lot.
		Had a case of the nerves.
		Pat Buchanan was hoarse.
		I may be there myself.
		I'm getting a cold.
		It's been years since I've had a cold, and I'm coming down with a cold.
		And Pat, of course, has been speaking incessantly.
		And he was hoarse.
		Tired, but hit his populist themes on trade.
		And he hit Bob Dole.
		Bob Dole, kind of, as Bob Dole always is, a bit dour, did not seem to score very well.
		In some areas he did what would be called okay.
		But he was kind of dour Dole.
		You know, Bob Dole.
		Bob Dole is a good guy.
		But at times his presentation seems negative.
		He hit back a couple of times, as Bob Dole does, at Buchanan.
		And there was a bit of a fight that ensued.
		Maury Taylor was received well.
		Simple, he too was nervous.
		He's not an effective speaker, I thought.
		Bob Dornan, the fire-in-the-belly guy, was the one who went after Clinton and not so much the others.
		And in that way, Bob Dornan was certainly a standout.
		But again, I'm going to say it.
		If you were to score this debate on substance and articulate presentation, I'd give it clearly to Alan Keyes.
		And I wonder how many of you would agree with that.
		Now, the roof has caved in on Pat Buchanan, the political roof.
		One of Pat Buchanan's national co-chairmen is down, gone, out.
		He's none other than Larry Pratt, who is the executive chairman of the Gun Owners of America.
		I've had Larry Pratt on the show in the past.
		Today, Buchanan was put in a totally defensive position as the news broke that Larry Pratt apparently in 1992 attended a Colorado meeting with white supremacist leaders or white supremacist leaders,
		Ku Klux Klan, Aryan Nations, those kind of people, were said to be present at the meeting.
		Now, Larry Pratt, hitting back, has said, I had no idea that they were there.
		You know, I go to these kinds of meetings.
		And, of course, you can imagine that Larry Pratt is very much a pro-gun activist, and these kind of people would show up, and they did at the meeting.
	He said he didn't know they were there.
	Nevertheless, Bob Dole hit Pratt, said Pratt is a right-wing extremist.
	Pratt is out.
	And I'm going to tell you right now, and this is what I have been telling you, whether you think what occurred today is fair or unfair, it is only the beginning.
	And the media is going to come after Pat Buchanan and anybody connected with him like a rabid dog.
	They really are.
	Here, to give you some idea, is a fact I got from Peggy down in San Antonio.
	Regarding the Pat and Larry show today, Pat Buchanan should count as lucky stars that no members of the Dole Entourage listens to as much anarchist radio as I do, Peggy, specializes in listening to anarchist radio.
	She monitors them.
	Or else Pat would be trying to explain why he, according to Supreme Commander of the Christian militia Dean Compton, gave his blessings to the 250,000-man armed march to the southern border of the U.S. to, quote, discourage, end quote, aliens from coming across.
	Building a cousin to the hated Berlin Wall, as Buchanan promises, is bad enough.
	Firing on our southern neighbors is nuts.
	Compton went on umpteen talk shows swearing that he had to go ahead and Godspeed from the Feisteep Pat.
	Pat has said on a C-SPAN panel of pundits.longo when asked what he thought about JFK promising a Protestant audience in Houston that he'd be president first before following the Pope.
	He kind of didn't miss a beat, said JFK was wrong and that he, Pat, would never put his church second, even to America.
	Said that what was good for Rome was good for the USA.
	So I have no way of knowing Ms. Pratt's background and whether it's any deeper than was suggested by the NBC report that I saw yesterday, which talked only of people being in the audience when he was at the podium.
	That's all.
	That's all they talked about, people being in the audience.
	All right, maybe it goes deeper than that, and I don't know about it.
	But I'm adding it up from a different perspective.
	Maybe Mr. Pratt is utterly innocent of any involvement that goes beyond being at a certain podium.
	Maybe there is a deeper involvement.
	I frankly have no way of knowing.
	I'm only looking at the way this got handled by the Buchanan campaign, and I think it's wrong.
	Either Pratt, there was something wrong with Pratt, in which case Buchanan should have said, he's out.
	He's out, he's gone.
	But Buchanan said it's lies, lies, lies.
	And I'm looking at this now from Pat's perspective.
	Whether Pratt wanted to go or not, it's always a, well, I'll tender my resignation or a temporary leave of absence while I get this straightened out or whatever.
	Fact is, he's gone.
	And Pat accepted that.
	Now, if Pat really believes that there is no such thing as the press has either cooked up or found out, whichever the case is, I tell you, I don't know.
	Pat should have been the man of his word, not let Pratt go, said, no, it's going to look as though if I let you go on this leave of absence or whatever it is, it's going to look to all the world like there is something wrong, and there's nothing wrong, and you're saying right here, that's what I would have expected out of the Pat Buchanan, I know.
	That's the point I'm trying to make with you.
	Pat's always been a straight arrow, straight-ahead guy.
	Look at his defense of Dim Yanyuk.
	In the face of charges of anti-Semitic behavior and statements and all the rest of it, he defended Dim Yanyuk come hell in high water during very rough times.
	Remember that?
	And he was accused of being anti-Semitic, and he stood his ground, and I frequently said, look, Dim Yanyuk was not convicted in a trial in Israel, a place where you would absolutely expect a conviction.
	He was not.
	And so on that issue, Pat was vindicated, and that's one where he hung tough.
	And the people who respect and stand by Buchanan for whatever else he is, being a man of his word and a man of conviction, I think can't help but view this a little bit the way I do.
	And the way I view this is he shouldn't have let him go.
	Whether Pratt wanted to go, whether Pat let him go, whatever the real, you know, you never really know because it's always a tendered resignation whether it was actually resignation or not.
	You never really know unless you were there privy to the private conversation.
	But the fact of the matter is Pratt's gone.
	Boom, like that.
	And that really smacks of expediency to me.
	And it doesn't smack of the Pat Buchanan that I thought I knew.
	So Pat Buchanan had better get ready because the weight of the oppressive American press is obviously, I'm not going to say is going to descend on him, has already descended on him.
	It was expected.
	And the only question is whether or not it is going to stunt in its very early growth any possibility of a Buchanan presidency.
	And I'm sorry to say that I believe it probably will.
	This has been my view all along.
	And Mr. Buchanan, according to the little moving lines, when he got off on the populist themes of the border and so forth, the numbers seemed to go way up.
	Otherwise, I don't think Pat did as well last night as he might have.
	He was tired, He was hoarse, and he had just had a pretty rough day with the Pratt business.
	So it's swirling out there, folks.
	It's a hornet's nest of allegations, and it's only just begun.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 15, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from February
		15, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from February
		15, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from February 15, 1996.
		You must be one vessel somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast again from February 15th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One thing I've forgotten to tell you, with the audiobook on sale now, you will also get an 8x10 frame signed beautiful photograph.
		In fact, I'm going to be signing all those tomorrow.
		That's going to take up a lot of my time tomorrow, so I'll be signing those like crazy.
		Really is a neat picture.
		I'm happy with it myself, and I'm not that happy with pictures taken of me, but I like this one.
		It's me.
		So you'll get that with the audiobook as well.
		The U.S. military took a laser beam for the first time in history, a laser beam and shot down a short-range missile.
		NBC exclusively had the footage as damned as thing you ever saw.
		There's a missile down in New Mexico flying through the air.
		The laser apparatus moved, tracked it, and fired and shot that thing out of the sky.
		Cost $3,000.
		Patriot missiles, which were shown after the Gulf War not to have been nearly as effective as advertised, cost $650,000 each.
		Again, the cost of the laser shootdown, $3,000.
		Unbelievable.
		Unbelievable.
		Again, don't miss Tomorrow Night's Show on HAARP.
		Because if they're doing that with lasers now, just try to imagine what they can do when they concentrate energy, focus energy on a specific portion of the ionosphere.
		If I keep going on with this, I'm going to get angry because I had a conversation yesterday.
unidentified		We'll talk about that tomorrow night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is a new report, two new reports actually on AIDS.
		One from the government.
		AIDS in America is now up 9%.
		60,000 people in America died last year from AIDS.
		For the second year in a row, it is the leading cause of death for all Americans between 25 and 44.
		It is interesting.
		I see one story that says if you're a heterosexual male or female, the danger of AIDS in America is very slight.
		And then you get this stat, that for the second year in a row, it's a leading cause of death for all Americans between 25 and 44.
		Well, that's not a trivial matter, is it?
		Then I got this from Billy in San Antonio.
		Dear Art, the CBS Evening News reported today there is a new strain of AIDS, the E strain.
		It was first seen in Thailand, and according to Dr. Bob Arnott, it has arrived in the U.S. Oh, happy day.
		It is primarily a heterosexually transmitted strain from men to women and women to men and is more infectious than the B virus common to the U.S. Some cases are based on a single sexual contact.
		Oh my.
		The first few cases have been confirmed in this country and Toronto prostitutes, Toronto, Canada, have been confirmed with it now.
		Meanwhile, Thailand is going through one of the most rapidly progressing epidemics from this strain.
		AIDS is one of the leading causes of death for men between, as I told you, 25, 44.
		Actually, NBC said for Americans.
		Let's hear it, he says, for marriage or abstinence, pray for those infected.
		Billy in El Paso, Texas.
		and that also is my attitude about aids these people are dying and uh...
		any And I guess my emotion with regard to those who are infected is one of compassion.
		They're dying.
		And I don't care what you have to say about your attitude about people's lifestyles or some of the rest of it.
		There are people who have AIDS because of blood transfusions, too many of them.
		There are people who have AIDS because of heterosexual contact as well.
		And even those who have it as a result of IV drug use and homosexual activity, they're still dying.
		And I guess I choose certainly not to use the opportunity to go after the gay community or any other community because somebody's dying of this disease.
		They're dying.
		And I'll tell you something, bad as IV drug use may be, or bad as homosexual activity I may personally view it, these people are dying and we need to find a cure for this before it gets us one way or the other.
		A nonchalant attitude about, oh, well, it won't happen to me, I think is not justified.
		And this news of the new strain is not unexpected.
		There was a lot of other news of the day, and I'll try to get to it as I can.
		Right now, let's go to the phones.
		Here are the numbers.
		First time callers.
		I know a lot of people are going to be commenting on this swirl of controversy around Buchanan.
		It was expected.
		Area code 702-727-1222.
		The wildcard lines.
		Area code 702-727-1295.
		Toll-free west of the Rockies.
		It's 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, it's 1-800-825-5033.
		This is open line talk radio.
		Anything you guys want to talk about is fair game.
		We don't pre-screen calls here, and that at times will be in a comedic way obvious that we don't.
		And at other times, it will bring on topics that you will not hear on other talk shows, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		No, you're not.
		We just missed you.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, I call from L.A. Yes, sir.
unidentified		I talked to you on a fast blast some time ago to ask if you ever had a station running in Florida, like Tampa or somewhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we have a number of stations in Florida, yes.
unidentified		Tampa area?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're heard in Tampa.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tampa, W-E-N-D.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		760 in Tampa, Florida.
unidentified		I'll pass that along.
		Okay.
		The other thing was maybe something that might poke a hole in the alien autopsy.
		Yes.
		As meticulous as the Army has been through that, I guess it's a 20-minute segment that they have been showing on a video that they've done.
		You never saw a still photographer in the room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think in the second video that you have not yet seen, there is a still photographer.
unidentified		Well, wouldn't he be there for each incision to?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea, sir.
		It doesn't necessarily poke a hole in it.
		You're seeing just parts and portions of it.
		Yeah.
unidentified		You never saw it for each individual movement there, like for the opening the skull and all that.
unidentified		You would think each thing would be recorded that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think that pokes a hole in it.
		It just pokes it a little bit.
		It pokes it a little bit.
		It doesn't poke a hole in it.
		I haven't heard one person yet actually prove this to be garbage.
		You know, to be garbage or a hoax or whatever.
unidentified		And what did they say why the film didn't disintegrate after all these years?
unidentified		Did they mention that or some sort of different type of film they've used?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was, I forget now, Kodak XXX, something or another.
		And I had a photographic expert on, and he gave lots of good testimony about that.
		Fellow's done work for the FBI and so forth.
		And so he seemed to think that it was perfectly reasonable that this film was in the shape that it is in because it was kept very well.
		It was more unlikely, according to my expert, that the film could have been kept.
		We know when the film was manufactured.
		Much more unlikely the film could have been kept and exposed at a later date.
		And he had proof that the film was exposed during the time they suggest it was.
		That doesn't mean this is not a hoax, but it means that it would be a hoax that somebody held on to for all those years for what reason.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		It's Charlie Liberal in California.
unidentified		You know, I never thought I'd be grateful to the nuts and the militias, but tonight I must say I'm rather grateful to the nuts and the militias.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I think you're expressing your gratitude to Larry Pratt of Gun Owners of America.
unidentified		I think they've done a great job for their country.
		Let me tell you one thing.
		Even though Pat Buchanan would basically destroy the Republican Party, I have to say that I consider myself to be an American first.
		And I think his getting the nomination would hurt the country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How?
unidentified		Oh, I think he'd be way too divisive.
		Way too divisive.
		Even getting the nomination.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was Ronald Reagan way too divisive for you?
unidentified		Well, comparing Ronald Reagan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, I just asked, was Ronald Reagan too divisive for you?
unidentified		No, Ronald Reagan, I think, was, I put him as being a conservative Republican, maybe very conservative, but nowhere near the extreme.
		But here's the thing.
		You've got all these nuts calling in saying, well, the liberals, the liberals are going to go after Pat Buchanan.
		And actually, I just got through watching TV, and you know who the people who are going after Pat Buchanan are?
		You look at these old news shows.
		You have Newt Gingrich, who basically said Pat Buchanan is no conservative.
		He's an extremist.
		You have Bennett, who I know is a conservative.
		Bennett's not a conservative.
		There's no such thing as a conservative.
		And Bennett said his immigration policies are basically fascist.
		And that's Bennett.
		And then you've got the other Republicans, such as Alexander, saying the guy's too extreme.
		Dole saying the guy's too extreme.
		And I think it comes down to this.
		If your enemies call you ugly, you might not be ugly.
		But when your own family starts calling you ugly, there's a chance that you're actually ugly.
		And I think these people that are in these Republicans need to start looking at some reality here.
		If conservatives are saying this guy's too extreme, then there may be, maybe there's something to that.
		And I think the argument holds some water there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Charlie.
		Thank you.
		My own personal view is that there are a number of things, as you know, that I disagree with Pat Buchanan on.
		The one particular area that I agree with him is on immigration.
		Whether it takes a wall, electronics, human beings, border guards like the one who was just on the air, Charlie, you've got to recall, works for the Border Patrol.
		You've got to wonder when Charlie's out on patrol and sees the running hordes that are coming into this country by the millions, how his attitude transfers into the enforcement of his sworn duty.
		And you've got to wonder whether it does.
		Just a little side note there for you to think about.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		Good morning, Art.
		Yeah, thanks for the Fluid Mac bumper.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		That's a beautiful song.
		It certainly is.
		Yeah, the thing you were saying earlier about AIDS, I think as far as your compassionate heart to people that are sick, I think you're really on the right track.
		But I wonder if you're aware that in the scientific community, there's really no consensus about even what causes AIDS.
		This whole thing about the HIV virus being the cause of AIDS.
		And so therefore we're worried about every little variation of the data.
		Well, it is certainly pause for a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is in question.
		There is controversy.
		I've had guests on the air here who say HIV could no more cause AIDS than man and moon.
		There's not enough of it and all the rest of it.
		Dr. Duesberg, I had on.
		But the fact of the matter is that when all is said and done, the people who die and contract the opportunistic diseases that finally do them in have the HIV virus present.
unidentified		Not all of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are some people that have died of AIDS-like things, but the massive numbers of people dying, 60,000 last year, the great high majority of them had the HIV virus present.
unidentified		But many people that have the virus never get sick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My attitude, there are some that have not.
		My attitude is that drugs, as Duisberg has suggested, other lifestyle things, if you have this virus, probably come and get you much easier.
		In other words, if your immune system is already depressed and you do things that depress your immune system even further, then you're probably going to die a lot faster.
		Whereas if you suddenly resurrect everything and stop the drugs and begin a good lifestyle and eat properly and get nutrition and exercise, blah, blah, blah, blah, then you can forestall the slow slide, inevitable, of the immune system.
		Make sense?
unidentified		I think it very well could be a variety of factors, but I want to keep people from being too fearful about having normal relationships and a normal sex block.
		Because at least so far, I don't know about this type E, but when you look at the statistical evidence, people don't get AIDS from casual sex.
		And I think you do a lot better by being, as you said, not doing drugs, staying away from mainstream medicine.
		I think a lot of times people are getting sick not from AIDS, but from the AIDS drugs, like AZT and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, that's also, thank you, Dr. Duisberg's argument.
		And I buy into that one, too.
		I'm not a big fan of AZT.
		AZT, according to Dr. Duisberg, is as much a killer as AIDS.
		And he feels that AZT, when taken by somebody with a weakened immune system, shows a quick spike in T cell count and then a very, very quick downturn, and that AZT itself murders the immune system.
		Very controversial position, but it may well be the case.
		The immune system is something that tries to muster its defenses against whatever assault is underway.
		And so AZD itself, according to the doctor, assaults the immune system, producing a temporary spike or fight, which is then quickly overcome by both AZT and whatever effect there may be of AIDS.
		Dr. Duisberg probably wouldn't even include that.
		And the patient is killed.
		Now, I have no way of knowing if that is true.
		It's a great debate in the scientific community.
		However, I think you're well to make note of this apparent new strain of AIDS that is predominantly heterosexual.
		AIDS continues to change constantly.
		And we better keep after it, or one of these changes is going to be a change we're not going to like one bit.
unidentified		that's my attitude about it Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		Let me ask you this.
		What is going on to necessitate this so quickly?
		There seems to be a deadline in their brains, and they need to get this done.
		They know their whole New World Order is inches from going up in flames.
		So they're afraid of the awakening, and they know that their collapse is about to take place because we've been asleep at the switch, and we've let incredibly corrupt interests take control of our society.
		Now we take you back to the night of February 15, 1996, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, back to the lines, and here we go.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, Art, this is John out in Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, John.
unidentified		I just wanted to, I know that our weather out here in the Northwest has been in the news lately, but I know lately this year we've had extremely rare weather i know it's been that way all across the country not only around the world but what uh what i've just seen lately is we had a pretty mild winter up until we had a a snowstorm which dropped down into you know about 15 degrees then after that it went up uh almost like a week
		Later, we got all the rain and the floods and stuff, and now we're into like 60-degree weather.
		And last night, I tried to get in to talk to you last night, but we had reports on the radio saying that we have a burn ban in effect now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's been that way all over the country, as you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Up, down, in, out, violent, horrible cold and snow, then ridiculously warm temperatures for the middle of the winter.
unidentified		uh,
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and I know where you're obviously going you're you're playing the harp on this one yeah you got that right I was gonna say hey talk to your guest tomorrow night and say hey you know what's going on well I you even depend on it and I as I said I spent 30 minutes imagine 30 minutes with the program manager of harp on on the phone and I hit him with that and a lot more and I was not pleased with the responses I got and that's why Nick Begich Dr. Begich is going to be here tomorrow night so
		it's coming so you're going to be uh uh talking to uh him about your conversation and uh the things that he said yes great and what and uh and then I'll let of course Dr. Begich go ahead and expand for those who haven't heard it a lot of people out there on what HARP is great Ward I sure enjoy your show and thanks for taking my call thanks for making it sir we will do that tomorrow night I I'm compelled to do that after my conversation and inevitably it's trying to lead
		into, and I don't want to do that tonight.
		It'll make it the center of conversation for tonight, so we'll just hold that one for tomorrow, and I will relate to you then the details of the conversation I had with the program manager of Harp.
		That was a very, from my point of view, a very disturbing conversation.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 15, 1996.
		Music by Ben Thede
		Radio Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired February 15th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alert for tomorrow night.
		I spent 30 minutes on the telephone with the program manager for HARP, the guy who's running HARP in Boston yesterday.
		It was not, in my opinion, a satisfactory conversation.
		I gave him the opportunity to come on this program.
		It was declined because his superiors, he said, wouldn't allow him to.
		With that much known, I put in a call to Dr. Nick Vegas.
		He will be on the program tomorrow night at the beginning, first hour.
		You don't want to miss him.
		I'll just leave that one right there.
		Second item is, and I'll do this very quickly, my book, The Art of Talk, is now on audio tape.
		And we've got a big, big bargain going on for you right now.
		The L.A. Times came up here and took a whole bunch of photographs, and they ran one on the front page of the calendar section of the L.A. Times.
		And we liked it so much that Paper Chase Press acquired it and had copies made, not newspaper-type copies, but full, glossy 8x10s of the same image that was on the front page of the calendar section of the L.A. Times.
		And if you order a copy of my book, The Art of Talk, as of tonight, or the audio copy of my book, which as of tonight is out, you get an autographed version, an autographed version of that photograph, which can be framed.
		I think you're going to enjoy it.
		I hope you will.
		I'm going to be signing my little life away beginning in the morning for you.
		So that's the deal.
		Any copy of my book ordered during this special edition offer, whether it's the audiobook or the book book, gets a personally autographed 8x10.
		The exact same one that was in the LA Times.
		I am taking a break.
		If you're trying to dial in on Vidian, I have the system off tonight.
		We're awaiting some new software.
		And when I hear about that, you'll hear more about it.
		So I'll let you know.
		If you're trying to dial on Vidian, hold up.
unidentified		The big news, the debates.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought clearly Alan Keyes, Dr. Keyes, was the winner.
		And I thought many other things of many of the other candidates which I had articulated last hour, and if you want to comment on the debates, you're absolutely welcome to.
		Pat Buchanan, in a world of hurt over allegations made about Larry Pratt, who runs Gun Owners of America, as executive director of Gun Owners of America, somebody got hold of some information that Larry Pratt was at a meeting in Colorado in 92 with people in the audience who were Aryan types and Ku Klux Klanners and that sort of thing.
		And Larry Pratt had been on Pat Buchanan's, it was very high in Pat Buchanan's campaign.
		He is not now.
		He's gone.
		As of tonight, he's history.
		Actually, yesterday now.
		And so Pat was on the defensive all day long.
		CNN ran a special edition.
		I saw both.
		I saw the live debate, then the one where they had this little line that would go across with people reacting to what the candidates were saying.
		I wonder what you thought of that.
		And I wonder if you agree with me that the walkaway winner of that debate was Pease.
		Absolutely articulate, straight down the line, a social conservative, straight down the line talking about the present state of our society, and a lot of very, very, very, very interesting, proper explanations of what's going on and what's wrong.
		I just thought Keyes was brilliant.
		I've interviewed him on this program, but he was brilliant.
		He was relaxed.
		He, by the way, Alexander certainly wasn't.
		Lamar Alexander, who I thought was a pretty cool potato, wasn't cool last night.
		He was nervous.
		He was bobbing up and down.
		Pat Buchanan was hoarse.
		Bob Dole was dour.
		Steve Forbes was interesting and was received fairly well.
		I thought Forbes did himself some good.
		Buchanan probably drew a straight line or lost a little bit as a result of the debate, I thought.
		Bob Dole probably lost as a result of the debate, I thought.
		It's going to mix things up in a very interesting way in New Hampshire.
		So what was your take on it?
		Did you see it?
		Do you feel in some way different than my take on it?
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air?
unidentified		Yeah, Art.
unidentified		This is Steve from San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Steve.
unidentified		I would like to talk about the whole number system, how it somehow or another ties into this whole world that we're in.
		It's a coincidence that our whole number and the way that we work has some way or another, it's like a bunch of circles, and they're all tied in to everything around us.
		I don't know if you feel no I don't.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I have no idea what you're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Circles and numbers.
unidentified		Circles and numbers.
		Well, like, you and I are two people, totally different.
		Now, somewhere down the line, we are, I guess you could say, related.
		Everybody in this whole world is related in some way, shape, or form.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we share humanity.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		And we also share the same makeup.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea what you're talking about, sir.
unidentified		None.
		None.
		I'm sorry about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am too.
		I'd like to understand what it is you're trying to say.
		Circles and numbers and relationships.
		You're not being very clear.
unidentified		Okay, I'm sorry.
		Maybe I can help you out.
		The way that numbers fit into the world that we are living today play a major role.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said that.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is this sort of a Louis Farrakhan speech, you know, 19 or whatever it was?
unidentified		No.
		No?
		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, what do you mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to have to give it to me quickly and succinctly.
unidentified		Okay, like the Mayan calendar, for instance.
		What about it?
		Numbers play a big role in that, correct?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Numbers play a big role in anybody's calendar, sir.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's 1, 14, and 25 seconds.
unidentified		But it all relates to each other, correct?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		No.
unidentified		Okay, maybe I'm misunderstanding it then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thanks very much for the call.
		Maybe you're just not expressing it properly.
		I don't know.
		But I'm unable to understand what you mean.
		There are all kinds of numbers that are used to measure things like time or dates or times that we revolve around the sun.
		But I don't see it all connected with some unexplainable circles that touch each other, which is what you were trying to talk about.
		It was just a fog to me, I'm sorry.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		This is Peter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can barely hear you, Peter.
unidentified		Can you hear me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're going to have to yell into your phone, sure.
unidentified		Okay, I'm yelling.
		All right, good.
		I listened to your show on Dreamland with Stan Johnson.
		Yes.
		And I listened to your guest tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Concerning Bigfoot.
		Yes.
		And I found some interesting correlations with a group of books that I've been reading.
		It's a four-part collection of channeled work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that makes me suspicious of it right away.
		If there's one area of all this that I think smells, to me it's this whole channeling baloney.
		And I'm sorry, but I do.
		I think it's baloney.
		My own sister used to channel, and I still think it's baloney.
unidentified		Well, you're welcome to your opinion on that.
unidentified		But there is this interesting correlation in that series of books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Sarah.
		Well, look, I appreciate your call, but I'm going to say this to everybody.
		If there's any place where I think there's reason to be suspicious of information obtained through a process they're calling channeling, i it is channeling.
		It's these people who will tell you, uh, go into a trance and tell you that in a past life you were related to some great Roman warrior or something or another, and here's information for the world from that great Roman warrior who now speaks through me, Suwami Bell.
		No, I don't, I'm extremely suspicious of that.
		It doesn't mean that there might not be something too channeling, but I think that for me it means there's so much phony baloney going on in the area that nobody could properly discern if there was something real because there's too much baloney in the middle of it all.
		So I kind of tend to dismiss that pending further and better evidence.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
		Redmeister Gerhardt, conservative in California.
		Okay.
		I never thought I'd...
		Oh, by the way, Charlie is in the customs.
		He's not with the...
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they also, though, would be on the lookout for anybody entering illegally with substances or their own bodies.
unidentified		Knowing Charlie, he's probably there handing them the address to the nearest welfare office.
		Maybe.
		He said something quite amusing, by the way, which is that William Bennett is a conservative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I believe him to be.
unidentified		Listen, William Bennett was opposed to the very reasonable stipulations of California's Proposition 187.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm aware of that.
unidentified		Now, anybody who is opposed to 187 is not only not a conservative, but doesn't even deserve to call themselves a Republican, anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, though, this is measured by Rittmeister Gerhardt.
unidentified		That's right.
		And they are, in fact, probably stealth Democrats who are probably closer to Bob Dole and Bill Clinton than they are to a real conservative.
		But, you know, what the hell does Charlie know, anyway?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, who is, in Rittmeister's opinion, a real conservative?
unidentified		Why, Pat Buchanan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, by a lot of measurements, Rittmeister, Pat Buchanan is a somewhat socialist, in his view, and not typical of mainline conservatives at all, particularly with his ideas on trade.
		And Pat Buchanan is a self-styled, he calls it America firster.
		It would translate to something that I wouldn't agree with, and that is putting up barriers to trade without regard, without having, as the center of the reason for these, fair trade, but just to build the fortress America.
		In other words, to force jobs back into America, to force these lower-paying jobs.
		It's like fighting Mother Nature.
		Things are going to be built cheaply in Mexico and China and Central and South America as they develop.
		The little gidgets and gadgets that are made are going to be made with that cheap manual labor, whether we take part in it or not.
		That's my argument against what he wants to do.
		This is going to happen whether we like it or not.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We can, in effect, close the border.
		We can do that.
		And it will force some lower-paying, lower-wage jobs back into the country.
		It's not going to bring back the $10 or $12 an hour jobs.
		It's not going to do that.
		But it will force these jobs that will then of necessity have to be made here.
		It'll erect some factories that'll start making these things.
		But it'll all be false because the rest of the world will be making these things at a much cheaper price, and they will trade among themselves.
		And America will then be by itself.
		And for a short time, we'll have a rise in the old factory kind of jobs we used to have.
		But quickly, the world will pass us by.
		It is my area of disagreement with Pat, that an abortion.
		And so that's the way I feel about that.
		And I very much otherwise like Pat for a lot of his qualities.
		He's outspoken.
		He says exactly what he feels.
		I admire that in anybody.
		You know I do.
		And Alan Keyes.
unidentified		God, he did a hell of a job last night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just a hell of a job last night.
		I think Alan Keyes was the clear winner of that debate.
		And I sure would like to know how the rest of you feel.
		What an articulate man.
		And seeing and hearing him again reminded me of the interview I did with him.
		I had to drag that thing out and replay it.
		It was very good.
		As was his performance last night.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		How you doing, Art?
		Okay.
		This is Duke.
		I'm a Hoosier Conservative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And I want to get on Charlie's case a little bit, too, if I could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm always open for that.
unidentified		First thing I want to say is that, boy, you can really tell that Pat has him scared.
		He's got all the liberals scared.
		And I was actually informed probably about a week ago that this news was going to come out this week on a local talk show by one of our representatives down there in Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, I'm telling you, it's only the beginning.
		Everybody knew it.
		Pat has a long paper or more likely audio clip trail behind him, and they're going to dredge it all up and beat him to death.
unidentified		The thing to remember, though, is that Pat also knew it was going to come.
		And I think that this is what I have to say about it.
		I think it's great that it's coming out now.
		And I only pray and hope that Pat can still win the nomination with all this out, because if he does, well, that's only going to hurt the White House because the Liberal Trump card has already been laid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, did you see the debate?
unidentified		I watched just a little bit of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you see Pat?
unidentified		He didn't look good, but there were reports that he's been sick ever since Iowa.
unidentified		He's had a cold since the end of Iowa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm getting one right now myself.
		I'm sorry about that.
		And his voice was hoarse, and he had a bad day, and all of that.
		But he had a rough night.
		And a lot of people in New Hampshire, after all, this, what is today?
		Friday morning, right?
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The New Hampshire primary is Tuesday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there's not a lot of time to correct a building negative.
unidentified		I have a hard time believing that having won 37% last time, that he's not going to be able to come pretty close to those numbers again this time.
		We'll see.
		But one more final word in there for Charlie.
		Tab, Buchanan may be a radical, but I think our founding fathers were considered radicals in their day, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		Thank you very much.
		So was Goldwater.
		And they managed to slaughter Goldwater.
		God, I love that man, and I still do.
		And they destroyed Goldwater with a lot less ammunition in the belt than they have to use on Pat Buchanan.
unidentified		is just something you ought to keep in mind Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
		I think now, as we look back, we can probably say with pretty good certainty that some people in government might have been aware of what was going on and they turned their cheek the other way just to let it happen.
		I also believe that some bigger groups got involved with al-Qaeda to do what they did on that horrible day.
		This wasn't just a small group of people who came in and did their thing.
		There was a much bigger picture there.
		And if you see the events that have unfolded since this tragedy occurred, how we've lost rights, how we used it to go in Afghanistan and Iraq, and how it has really not stopped.
		Because it's going to continue.
		We're going to have more and more episodes and more and more involvements in other countries.
		And just mark my word, this planet is going through an incredible change.
		And thank God we've got you here to talk with us about it.
		Now we take you back to the night of February 15, 1996 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Art Bell East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
		Hi, Art.
		I've got a couple things.
		First of all, there's a good New American special immigration issue February 19th about the immigration of the Mexicans and the Chinese, and many of them are communists.
		That's interesting.
		It's a good issue.
		Second, did you hear that the train wreck in Minnesota is now suspected of being sabotaged in the U.S.?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God, no, I didn't.
		Excuse me, ma'am.
		Where did you hear that?
unidentified		I heard it on local St. Louis the local St. Louis radio.
		I don't know whose broadcast it was.
		I mean, ABC or NBC or...
		Yeah, it was part of the network.
		And also, I don't know if you know, but March 11th is the anti-terrorist bill is going to be up for that week to be passed.
		So now we've got this train, right?
		We've got two more weeks, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I appreciate your calling.
		I want some confirmation of that.
		That's a pretty serious allegation.
		It better not be.
		God help us in this country.
		If it's come to this.
		I'm going to need some more input.
		I should have heard that from somebody else.
		If anybody else out there has input on that, I'd appreciate it.
		Have we really entered a day and age where Americans on a regular basis are going to be killing, blowing up, and maiming other Americans?
		Is that what it's come to in America?
		Just like the bombing in Oklahoma City, I'll tell you something.
		If it really does come to that, this nation doesn't have long to go.
		It's a mark of the near end.
		You can put your money down on that one.
		If we've decided in America, whether it's the militias or any of these other nutball groups that are out there, if we have collectively decided the only way to change things is with force and bullets and bombs, then the end, folks, is near.
		Not for mankind, not the world, but this nation.
		So I hope that one's not true.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 15, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from February
		Coast to Coast AM from February 15, 1996.
		15, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from February 15, 1996.
		You're listening to Arc Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 15th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		I'd soon Coming down with a whopper of a cold, so's my wife.
		And I want to thank that little disease-carrying 14-year-old son of mine for delivering it here.
		On schedule.
		It's ridiculous.
		Kids, they get sick.
		They get really sick.
		They pass on whatever it is they've got, and then they quickly get well while the adults come to a near-death experience.
		So, there's nothing like being a talk host, having five hours on the air every night and trying to do it with a cold.
		But I'll tell you what, come hell or high water, sneezing, coughing, and hacking, I'll be here tomorrow night.
		Even with the temperature, I'll be here tomorrow night.
		Nick Vigic, don't you miss it?
		It's all about heart for a very good reason.
		Dear Hart, I also watched the repeat of the debate.
		Agree with your assessment of the best showing by Keys.
		But did you happen to notice how the women's line almost always moved faster than the men's?
		I hate to sound sexist, but it appeared to me that women are a little more easily swayed than men.
		Ooh, that is sexist.
		The biggest difference between men and women seemed to be the speed and the amount of movement on some subjects.
		The women's line was nearly off the scale on at least three occasions, while the men's line only went that far once.
		Well, that is sexist, sir.
		A woman might come forth and say, maybe women are just a little more perceptive and sensitive.
		That brings to mind the commercial with the tennis ball, hit the guy in the noggin.
		You remember that?
		Men have had such a rough go of it lately, haven't they?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
unidentified		Tim in Denver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Tim.
unidentified		Yeah, I also watched the CNN debate or the CNN coverage.
unidentified		And I thought that was an ingenious device they had come up with and a great idea with the audience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've been calling for it for I don't know how long, something just like that.
		And lo and behold, after all these years, there it was on CNN last night.
		Did you, as you watched it, and this is the interesting question, did you generally find yourself in agreement with it as it went along?
		If you'd had the little knob in your hand, would you have been turning it pretty much like the people were?
unidentified		Yeah, about 90% of the time I would say I was in agreement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Same here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Same here.
unidentified		I thought maybe what do you think about this for a future debate if they expounded on it just a bit to where when, you know, the center line that they showed, they had the male and female in the center line.
		Kind of in the middle, and it would stay above a lot of times, and sometimes it would dip below.
		Yeah.
		Maybe if it dipped below, it kind of, if they wired up the debaters, so it kind of delivered a little shock just enough to where it got to a point where they let out a yelp.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And then at the end of the debate, you would be able to tell who won by the person that yelped the least.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Huh.
unidentified		I know, and it would never work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I need something like it for radio.
		I need something like that for radio.
		I don't know what it would be, but I need something like it.
unidentified		As far as the footage in New Mexico of the little laser shot that hit the missile, I thought it was interesting that it did not blow it up.
		It just made it tumble.
		Just took it out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, there's my radio version of what CNN had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you hear that?
unidentified		Yeah, I sure did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, maybe we could do something like that.
		We'd have to work on it.
		I just thought I'd bring that over here and try that.
		Anyway.
unidentified		And Larry Pratt on Nightline?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		I didn't see him.
		I don't see Nightline because I'm already on the air here.
unidentified		Right, exactly.
		Here in Denver, we caught it.
		It comes on at 10.30 in the evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You guys in the mountain states are different.
unidentified		Right.
		And he did defend himself quite well, I thought.
		However, it seemed to be a little too little, too late.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, first of all, it is not surprising that Larry Pratt, who heads up an organization that concentrates on nothing but Second Amendment protections, who's probably, you know, he's been on this show speaking, he's been on a million other radio shows, he goes to all kinds of conventions and gun shows and things like that and speaks to people about the Second Amendment.
		To be able to tie him into Aryan Nations, tie him into the Ku Klux Klan, by saying they were in the audience, that's a little much for me.
		I mean, who the hell?
		There's Aryan Nation people listening to me right now.
unidentified		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All over Idaho, I've heard.
unidentified		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And people, no doubt, in the Ku Klux Klan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, does that mean I sympathize with them because they're in my audience?
unidentified		Exactly.
unidentified		And he also made the point that the government, I mean, the Constitution provides for militias in the events of the nation needing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it does.
		But the real point, thank you, is whether or not the fact that people with these persuasions...
		are connected to him, simply because they were in the audience when he spoke somewhere, is absolutely ludicrous.
		Now, if they had more than that, if they had Mr. Pratt in cahoots with these people, if they had Mr. Pratt specifically addressing the Aryan Nations, or going out of his way to court the Aryan Nations, or accepting courtship by the Aryan Nations or the Ku Klux Klan, then you've got something else.
		I even wonder, frankly, whether Pratt did the right thing by cutting Pratt loose like that.
unidentified		You know, have any of you thought about that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, maybe there's something that I haven't heard, but the only thing I heard on NBC, and they, you know, was the lead item on NBC, the Get Pat item.
		And I didn't hear them say anything other than there were some people.
		people from these organizations in an address he gave in 1992 So what the hell does that mean?
		Not much to me unless they've got something deeper than that.
		And I'm a little concerned that Pat just cut Pratt loose like that on, what shall we call it, the appearance of impropriety.
unidentified		Huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you something.
		There's an awful lot of stuff that they can use against Buchanan.
		He has supplied people with years and years of statements and quotes that are going to be very, very controversial.
		And they're going to beat him to death with this stuff.
		But I was saying that a long time ago, and I think we all know it and do it and now realize that it is true.
		Can he make it through to the nomination and then the presidency with this kind of baggage and wait?
		And the press doing what it's doing?
		It's not very likely.
		I'm going to tell you honestly.
		It's my honest judgment.
		That's a good man.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, my name is Tony and I'm calling from Albuquerque.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Tony.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Glad to have you, KOB.
unidentified		Yeah, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off if you would, please.
		We'll hold.
		You always want to have your radio close by and turn your off.
unidentified		Oh, hand back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
unidentified		I'm calling in regards to a man that had said that pit bulls weren't a recognized breed.
		That's right.
		They are recognized.
		They're recognized by the UKC, the Kennel Club, the United Kennel Club.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And also, American Staffordshire Terriers are similar to pit bulls, but a true pit bull man would say they're nothing alike.
		They can look exactly alike, but technically they have different lines.
		They can look identical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe that's not good.
		I mean, the talk, of course, is of banning pit bulls, right?
		yeah well there's any there is not a an official people breathe they can't they How can you ban something that is not an official breed?
		Maybe you'd be better off if they weren't.
unidentified		That's true also.
		Well, there's a little town, it's a mountain town up in the crest over in the Sandiette Mountains that they actually have banned pit bulls.
		Yeah, they will kill them on site if you are.
		They will shoot them on site.
		If a police officer were to pull you over and you have a pit bull.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They'd shoot it?
unidentified		Yeah, they'd shoot it.
		That's what I hear.
		I don't know if that's happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a little hard to believe.
unidentified		Yeah, it's going on, though.
		And in England right now, pit bulls are being eradicated from England.
		It's under the Dangerous Dog Act.
		Pit bulls and Rottweilers, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you hold with the view, and we've discussed this over the last couple of nights, do you hold with the view that there are no mean dogs born?
unidentified		It's possible for a mean dog to be born due to the fact of too much inbreeding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure it is.
unidentified		Because actually I raise pit bulls myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		I'm not a fighting man that breeds them to fight each other.
unidentified		Although they were bred for that in England about 150 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, listen, I appreciate your calling.
		I happen to believe there are mean dogs.
		Just like there are mean people.
		Dog mean people.
		I know some of them.
		I mean just mean natured.
		I don't think it's a product of environment.
		I think they're born mean.
		They're just mean people.
		Like there's good-looking people and bad-looking people.
		People ugly as skin.
		Shannon Dowery's.
		There's people of all cuts, and that means mentally as well.
		And so I think there's some people just born junkyard dog mean.
		So this is mean dogs.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Alan at St. Louis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alan, I can barely hear you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to have to get into that phone and shout at us.
unidentified		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all right.
unidentified		How are you doing tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm fine.
unidentified		I have to agree with you.
unidentified		I haven't been a big Alan Keyes fan up till tonight, but I watched the late broadcast on CNN.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And, yeah, he just blew me away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was brilliant.
unidentified		He was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely brilliant.
		Relaxed.
		The rest of them were either nervous or dour like Dole or not on his game like Buchanan.
		Boy, he was way off his game.
		Didn't do himself a bit of good at a critical moment.
		You know, the New Hampshire primary is Tuesday.
		He hurt himself.
unidentified		Yeah, well, this all came about today, and I think it just rattled him.
		He wasn't expecting it.
		I don't find it to be a big deal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm kind of angry about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm even a little angry at Buchanan for reacting immediately and dumping Pratt like a hot potato.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If there is no more to it than I understand so far, this whole thing is asinine, and I'm not particularly proud of Pat for dumping Pratt like this.
unidentified		No, it's a non-issue to me.
unidentified		As far as the information we've been given so far, it's not an issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, if that's true, and Buchanan said something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He said it's a bunch of lies, but he still cut Pratt loose.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's political expediency in the place I come from.
unidentified		Yeah, well, it's just catering to the masses.
unidentified		People are going to react to it, so he's catering to the votes he wants to get.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That means he's playing the game.
		I mean, to me, Buchanan was always a man of rock-solid principle.
		Well, if you're a man of rock-solid principle and you come out and say it's a bunch of lies, and then you cut the guy loose, swinging in the breeze, without so much as a how do you do, then you're not the principled person I thought you were.
unidentified		No, but still, he sees it's like within his sights now.
unidentified		He's got the momentum going, and he doesn't want to lose it by then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What does that say?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, I'm not mean to be rapping on Pat, but if he'll do that for this, then what will he do when he gets there at the real center of power to keep it?
unidentified		Well, that's true, but you've got to play the game to some degree or you're not going to win.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I think the man was rising in the polls precisely because he didn't play the game, or at least I didn't think he did.
unidentified		Well, yeah, it may be.
		I'm not real sure.
		I like Buchanan, and I'm still going to stay behind him, although I do agree with you.
		clearly there is no question Keyes won that.
		He was talking to me.
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was communicating.
		And really, thank you very much.
		There was nobody else up there that did that.
		Or at least to the degree, even near the degree Keyes did.
		I thought it was a runaway myself.
		Keyes was good.
		Really good.
		And he's not a player in this election.
		At least I don't think he is.
		Unless New Hampshire folks reacted the way I did.
		And there's a miracle in the New Hampshire primary.
		I bet he goes up.
		I'll bet she goes up.
		What I think Keyes is, is a player in the next election.
		Maybe not this one.
		Maybe Keyes is a vice presidential player.
		There are many possibilities, but I'll tell you, his showing last night is not going to go unnoticed and unremembered.
unidentified		most of what a doctor keys does is remembered well and believe me last night is no exception ScreenLink, the audio subscription service of Coast2Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
		You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year.
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		Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
		Plus, you'll get screened and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell, Summer In Time Shows, and two weekly classics.
		And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests.
		If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
		Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up today.
		Now we take you back to the night of February 15, 1996 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Art Bell First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
		Yeah, hi, this is Mark in California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Mark.
unidentified		Listen, I just got to try to straighten something out here.
unidentified		I'm hearing you go on and on about Pat dumping Larry Pratt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean he didn't?
unidentified		No.
unidentified		Larry Pratt came to Buchanan when this broke, and he requested a leave of absence from his position in the campaign.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, however these things happen, sir, the fact is, it's like people are always, when there's a parting of the ways in high business positions or high government positions, arrangements are always made.
		But the fact is, Pat's gone.
		Pat accepted it.
		And I've got a problem with that, frankly, unless there's more to it than I know.
unidentified		Well, some of the stuff that they put on Nightline tonight, and I was very disappointed in Ted Coppel because he seemed to be not so timid when he did programs on Waco and Ruby Ridge, but he really went after Larry Pratt tonight with a vengeance.
unidentified		He was very aggressive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was the substance of the program in the end, did it show that Pratt had interest connections with Aryan Nations or Ku Klux Klan or whoever?
unidentified		Okay, not that he was forwardly openly endorsing their position, but let me tell you something.
		They showed this guy at some of these conventions and different things.
		And when you go to these, especially when you're in the spike training and some of these things that are going on around here, these seminars, you get to know who's there.
		Now, it's not who's in the audience that they were saying.
		It's who was sponsoring the event and who else was on the platform in the same evening or afternoon that he was there.
		Now, I don't think that that has anything to do with Pat Buchanan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't either.
unidentified		And I also...
		No, I don't either.
		So we understand and accept that this is something that the press is doing.
		However, I also have to say, just because I'm in public life publicly myself, in politics, you pay a consequence when you do decide to share these podiums.
		So, you know, I'm sure Larry Pratt, you know, I'm a member of his organization and I think he's a fine guy.
		And I don't think, I don't never seen or heard anything racist about him or anything like that coming from him.
		Nor have I. But the fact is, you know, he's out there beating his drum and there are some people who resonate with that, whether he agrees with their positions.
		They certainly agree with his.
		And when you move around and amongst some of these groups and some of these organizations, it is just fodder for the press.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then if guild can be established with that kind of loose association, and I consider that mighty, mighty loose.
unidentified		Oh, I do too.
unidentified		I'm so sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then I think Pat Buchanan has no chance because they are going to show other associations.
unidentified		All right, but let me put this plug in for Pat, though, on that note.
		The fact that Prat came to Buchanan and asked for relief from his position only for a period of time so he could straighten this out and then come back.
		See, I heard other people say, hey, Pat should have just fired the guy out of hand right now.
		Get rid of him.
		It's over with.
		Let's move on.
		But see, this is one thing about Pat.
		I think one of the strongest things he has going for him is that he is an honest guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he said tonight, or he said, sir, he said it was lies.
		Pat said what was said about Pratt was lies.
		And if Pat really felt that, then Pat shouldn't have let Pratt go.
		Pat should have stood by what he said yesterday, he believes, and kept him right there and fought for him.
unidentified		Well, he did say tonight, though, he said, look, he said, Larry was standing up for me back in 92 when a lot of other people wouldn't.
unidentified		And he said, and I'm standing up for him right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you know, maybe you think it's a fine line, but I don't.
unidentified		Yes, sir, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
		I do.
		I think that Pat should have put his actions where his words were.
unidentified		And say what?
		No, Larry, you can't.
		And then you've got to straighten this out.
		You've got to stay in here and be my co-chair.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, because to leave is to almost concede that there's a big problem.
		Even if it's just with perception, it's to concede there's a big problem, sir.
		And that's not good for Pat Buchanan.
		He should have been, he should have put his actions where his words were.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 15, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from February
		Coast to Coast AM from February 15, 1996.
		15, 1996.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		The Night's program originally aired February 15th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen to this, Art.
		I'm surprised and disappointed at your reaction to the train wreck.
		You of all people should know by now that if the facts are not known, the news media will make some up.
		As far as I know, there's no evidence that proves the train wreck was sabotage, only speculation.
		Well, no, it's not speculation.
		Actually, sir, it's my understanding the FBI has the train wreck location sealed off and that the FBI is crawling all over it.
		So, you know, that's more than speculation.
		You seem to be making a habit of conclusion jumping and flying off the handle.
		If that's what you want to do, try this.
		Maybe the feds are using what is truly an accident to help justify the passing of another unmeeted terrorist bill that'll further erode our constitutional protections.
		Oh, God.
		As to the militia, don't paint in such a broad brush or you'll damage your credibility.
		Not everyone who joins the militia or sympathizes with their fear of the federal government is a nutball or a right-wing kook.
		When you make this mistake, you fall right in with what the left-wing dominant media wants the American public to believe.
		Bob in Phoenix.
		Bob, I never said the militia did this.
		Clean out your ears.
		You're selectively hearing, Bob.
		I said nutball cases.
		And anybody who would wreck a train to try to make a political point, Bob, is a nutball case.
		Anybody who would blow up a building full of relatively innocent people to redress a wrong done at Waco is a, I would almost use the word I can't use on the air, is a nutball case.
		I didn't use the word militias, Bob.
		I didn't say that.
		Clean out your ears.
		I never said a word about that.
		I said nutball cases.
		Some of them may be in militias, Bob, since you bring it up, and some maybe not.
		People who will assume the moniker of patriot, Bob.
		You know, that's the people I'm talking about, Bob.
		I have no idea who they are.
		Flying off the handle?
		You're damn right I'm flying off the handle.
		If anything's going to pull this country apart, it's going to be nutball cases like this.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Morning, right.
unidentified		This is Steve from Puri, Illinois.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, good morning to you.
unidentified		I have a question.
		It's off the subject a little bit.
		Last Friday you had a guy on Gauss, Andrew Gauss.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, talking about the economy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		That's right.
unidentified		And he was talking about the tax, the consumer tax.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I haven't heard any of the other politicians talking about it.
		I wondered how applicable is it?
		I don't really understand it.
		How can it be enforced?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's enforced every time somebody buys something.
		In other words, he was talking about essentially a tax that would tax on consumption.
		Every time somebody buys something, there's an automatic tax to it.
		It would eliminate all other forms of tax, and there would be a tax only on goods and services.
unidentified		Is it a feasible plan?
unidentified		Why don't the other politicians?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is a feasible plan, sir.
		Of course it is.
		It would, in a very reasonable way, redistribute the wealth.
		Anyway, that's off on another subject.
		Hi Art, the polls are in for February 15th, 1996.
		Now listen to this.
		Best job in the debate.
		I'll be damned.
		Keys, 21%.
		Buchanan, 15.
		Dole, 13.
		Alexander, 13.
		I'll be damned.
		Keys won.
		According to CNN poll, Keys won.
		By quite a margin.
		So I guess there's some other people that read it the way I did.
		I'll be damned.
		Now, as far as an ABC poll regarding Who you would like for the nominee?
		29% said Dole, 26% said Buchanan, 18% Alexander, 13% Forbes, but that would have been taken prior to the debate, I think.
		CNN poll, choice for nomination, 26% Buchanan, 23 Dole, 18 Alexander, 15 Forbes.
		Forbes, I'm sorry.
		That's from Linda in Metae, Louisiana.
		First-time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Art, it's Jeff again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jeff, again.
unidentified		Hey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jeff, Jeff.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If it's Jeff again, you can't call on the first-time caller line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've already called.
unidentified		I had the wrong line the other day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I'm sorry, Jeff.
		You get one shot as a first-time caller, and then after that, you're not that anymore.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yeah, Art.
		Yes.
		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm fine.
unidentified		Yeah, I was calling about the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm coming down with a terrible cold now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you?
unidentified		Yeah, I'm a first-time caller.
		I'm kind of nervous, and I like your show a lot.
		I've, you know, got your book and your newsletter.
		I was calling about the Republicans.
		Is if ever there were a vulnerable president, Clinton would be the one.
		I d I just I don't know.
		Um it's not that there aren't I'm kind of nervous here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, just say what you want to say.
unidentified		Well it just doesn't seem like anybody it's not that there aren't good candidates, but that uh I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Um nobody nobody sets you on fire.
unidentified		Yeah, exactly.
		Exactly.
		It's not like that they're not I mean a lot of them have conviction keys and you know Buchanan, but that there's no overwhelmingly strong obvious candidate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well thank you.
		You actually said that very well by stumbling around and not being able to find the words.
		You really said it very well for many of us.
		Keyes is a candidate of the future or he's a vice president for somebody.
		Maybe even now.
		Maybe the best move Buchanan would make would be to immediately court Keyes if you want to if you want to turn back any allegations of racism or anti-Semitism or that certainly would go a long way toward doing that.
unidentified		That would be a good political move.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I repeat that I really don't enjoy what has occurred yesterday, not so much the allegations about Pratt, but the way it was handled by the Buchanan campaign.
		And I believe Pat Buchanan.
		You know, people are sending taxes saying, well, they did it.
		I'm not that naive.
		The stakes are enormous.
		You know, whether there's anything to the allegations or not, the stakes are enormous.
		And to imagine the candidate did not have a part in the decision to allow Pratt to leave for whatever stated reason is just way too naive for my taste.
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of February 15, 1996 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Woodensville, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
		As I remember, people like Nixon and Reagan both campaigned on the assumption that they were going to be less one-world government and stuff.
		And when they got into office, they appointed more CFRs than anybody.
		And that worries me about Buchanan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say it worries me about Buchanan, but I would say that what we saw yesterday was a concession to the reality of politics as usual.
unidentified		Another thing I wanted to ask you, exactly how long it was that you first interviewed Linda Thompson and the Bigelow Corporation decided to fire you, Raggedy ass?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, two weeks.
		Bigelow didn't fire me at all.
		The grant ran for a year for your smart-eared little self.
		The grant ran for a year that supported that program, and that was all.
		And as far as Linda Thompson is concerned, I interviewed her while she had something to do with and was speaking about what went on at Waco.
		The moment she stepped out of line, I came down on that quickly.
		Only you probably don't remember that, do you?
		Your raggedy-ass little ears don't remember that, do they?
unidentified		Oh, yeah, I remember that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, obviously not, or you wouldn't be...
unidentified		And how can that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you wouldn't be saying the kinds of things you're saying right now would you well how could that uh...
unidentified		I mean, he acts like there's no statute of limitations on murder.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you aware of some?
unidentified		No.
unidentified		Well, then, so I mean, I don't understand how he could be outraged when he turns his TV on and sees women and children being murdered in front of his mother.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you apparently don't understand a lot of things, sir.
		You've got your ears all boxed up, sir, and you're just not hearing things.
		You come back now anytime here.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Art.
		That's me.
		Yeah, I'm here with a friend, and we're listening to you tonight.
		And this is Dave in Sacramento.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Dave.
unidentified		My friend Rick just got a hold of you a little earlier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes?
unidentified		Yeah, he was from Sacramento, too.
		Listen, Talk650 here is pulling some kind of a radio on?
		No.
		No, okay, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or else I'm hearing somebody else talk or something.
unidentified		No, we were listening to the radio.
		Yeah, I got it turned down, though.
		Anyhow, Talk650 over here in Sacramento is pulling some kind of an in-fomercial after your break at 3 o'clock.
		Uh-huh.
		Yeah, it's going for like about 15, 20 minutes into your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's probably paid programming.
		Radio stations, my program, two radio stations, is delivered to them on a barter basis.
		In other words, it is free to them.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they run commercials in it, and we run commercials as a network in it.
unidentified		But our family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's the way it works.
unidentified		It's a coffee for your fans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, if a radio station gets an opportunity to make money...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		I mean, people aren't in business to be nice to people, right?
		They're in business to make money.
		That's correct.
		Oh, well, I guess we're all victims of monitorism, then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what America is based on.
unidentified		Well, some of America is good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I beg your pardon?
unidentified		Some of America is good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I didn't say it was bad.
unidentified		No, I know.
unidentified		I just wanted to put that in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
unidentified		Take care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes.
		Hi, Dave.
		St. Paul at the site of the train wreck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Dave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Appreciate the call.
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
		Say, I got some confirmation from you if you need it.
		I had a relative that was in the building at the time it happened, was alley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
		Yeah.
		Is the FBI calling all over that scene?
unidentified		Yeah, they're calling all over everybody that's anybody that had anything to do with any of the workers or anything.
		They've even interviewed me.
		So the only thing that they know for a fact is that two of the hydraulic levers on the main switching coming into the train yard had been tampered with.
		And that's confirmed.
		And they're also relating to the this is the second incident.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, second major one that's caught the presses in the last two weeks.
unidentified		Right.
		And this has been confirmed that they're just trying to figure out the reasons why now.
		They're trying to track it down to maybe someone that worked with railroad or maybe someone that had a vengeance against one of the employees or someone higher up in the management.
		That's what they're trying to lean towards right now.
		That's what they're trying to ask everybody.
		And of course, everybody doesn't have any whole lot to say, but it hit everybody's device as a surprise.
		Sure.
		And nobody really has a whole lot to offer to it, but they're tearing it apart.
		They're really tearing it apart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's horrendously sad.
unidentified		It is.
unidentified		It's really a sad day in this world when terroristic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I predicted terrorism to come to this country, but, you know, I didn't think it would be from within.
unidentified		I didn't think it would have, you know, jeopardized.
		The people who are behind this aren't thinking of much.
		I don't say a whole lot for people with that kind of vengeance in their minds.
		They don't belong in this world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's people for whatever reason, whether it's some vengeance against merging banks or railroad companies or some sort of political, more likely, motivation behind it all.
unidentified		It's going to tear us to pieces.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tear us to pieces.
unidentified		Yeah.
		It's, I don't know.
		I love your show.
		I listen to you every night.
		And it's maybe with people like you out there, maybe we can have some effect.
		Maybe you can make an influence or make a difference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe if it's...
		If there is an area I can make a difference, this is the area I would like to make a difference.
		Americans have got to realize that their heritage, their nation, their roots, their forefathers, that document we live by is more than just a document.
		And that change in America can be accomplished in the body and the spirit of that document.
		And God help us if we've become so radicalized that the only way we can any longer think we can change things is with booms and bangs and guns and bullets.
		In America, it seems like it's become the first thing that people grab for.
		Not ballots.
		Not grassroots movements.
		But bullets and bangs.
unidentified		See, that's the end.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies?
		No, make that the wildcard line.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Yeah, let me kill my radio real quick, Mark.
		Okay.
		Just to that guy who kills his radio real quick.
		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing fine.
unidentified		Yeah, this is Mike from Montana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Montana, Mike?
unidentified		Yeah, Montana, Mike, exactly.
		Okay.
		I have a few things that I want to talk about.
		Okay, first, you don't like Bill Clinton.
		I listen to your radio and I can tell that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're a discerning individual.
unidentified		Oh, I guess so.
unidentified		Now, I mean, give me your reasons why you don't like Bill Clinton.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We don't have enough program left.
unidentified		Well, what has you done is so bad.
		Okay, now I know you're a staunch Republican.
		I understand that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm a staunch conservative.
unidentified		You're a conservative?
		Yeah.
		Okay, well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not a staunch Republican.
		As a matter of fact, if you want to know the truth, I consider there to be so little difference at the presidential level between Republicans and Democrats that that's as far as I'm willing to go.
		I'm a staunch economic conservative.
		I'm a social mixture.
unidentified		Right, okay, I understand.
		But you know, the president is ju really just a figurehead.
		I mean, he can veto things if the Congress can say overriding by two-thirds margin.
		It doesn't matter if he says no or not, correct?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're turning to something trivial, something that is not trivial.
		A veto is a very non-trivial thing.
		Only in the rarest of circumstances are vetoes overridden.
		So it's not a trivial power.
		Okay, but sir, so far, the president's veto, or threats of it, have managed to keep the larger parts of what's called the Republican Revolution by Mr. Gingrich and others stopped.
unidentified		I understand that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you understand that then it's not trivial?
unidentified		Okay, I'm not saying it's not trivial, but the president, as you know, actually is a figurehead, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		Wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, perhaps the greatest power that a president is that of the bully pulpit getting out there and talking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's one thing that Clinton really does very well is.
unidentified		He's very good.
		He's a Leo.
		He talks.
		He's very good at it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he is good at it, sir.
		I have no idea whether he is, as you are, a Leo.
		I don't even know what he is.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hey, it's me, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		From Los Angeles.
		Yes.
		I'd love the more esoteric parts of your shows, and I like you.
		But I've got to say, Pat Buchanan is not a Republican.
		He's a caveman.
		I was raised as a Republican.
		My mother was a state representative in Connecticut for 15 years.
		And Republicans back then and there were classy, well-educated.
		They weren't uneducated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pat is well educated.
unidentified		How well educated?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said Pat is well educated.
unidentified		Well, he seems to be well educated in the white male.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's a knuckle dragger, I can see, as far as you're concerned.
		But whatever else you say about Pat, and I'm not a full Pat Buchanan fan, except in certain ways, and that's why I'm disappointed this morning, because whatever else he was or wasn't, he was always a man of stone-hard conviction.
		And not one to cut and run, given a little controversy.
		He jumps right into the middle of that, and so I'm saddened by what's happened today.
unidentified		Okay, but his supporters always saying, oh, he's got the liberals on the run and they're afraid and all that.
		Well, I don't see what's so great about making everybody afraid of you.
		Personally, I think he's the playground bully that I always hated when I was growing up.
		He was bloodying people's noses, you know?
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, there is that part of Pat.
		That's why they had him on Crossfire.
		You know, you don't put a wimp on there.
		At least not on the right, I hope.
		And he wasn't that.
		But he's had a lot of things that are going to come back to haunt him, and they are now.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 15, 1996.
		You know me, no one waiting by your time.
		You've been rough.
		I loved you all.
		You know it's just your good side.
		Got me on my knees.
		Dang it, darling, please.
		Midnight at the awaken.
		Send your camel to bed.
		Shadows hanging on facing.
		Tracy the romance in our head.
		Heavens holding our head.
		Shortest your let's live off to a bad new real.
		You're listening to Ark Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 15th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Somebody just sent me a fax and said, boy, with a friend like you, Pat Buchanan doesn't need enemies.
		Let's you and I get something straight, okay?
		I'm not on anybody's campaign staff.
		I don't pretend to be.
		I don't want to be.
		I'm not going to be.
		I do a talk show, and I try to remain as objective as I'm able.
		On any given night, on any given issue, I come in here without a driven agenda to do a talk show with you guys.
		If you want somebody who is on somebody's campaign staff, I think you'll not have a hard time finding them.
		If that's what you want to listen to, there's plenty of people out there who do that.
		That's not me.
		And nor do I intend it or will let it be ever.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Mike in San Francisco.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Mike.
unidentified		Actually, your response to Last Sex was a real good segue.
unidentified		I'm going to introduce a controversial subject.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what we're here for.
unidentified		Correct.
		I wanted to basically toss around some ideas regarding domestic partnerships.
		I'm straight, by the way, even though my location might suggest otherwise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that awful in its own way that your location might suggest otherwise?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Use that idea.
unidentified		It's population.
		Yeah.
		It's not a tendency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's just a population.
unidentified		I know.
		And there's a lot of stereotypes out there that believe that.
		Anyway, what does the word consummate mean to you, just off the top of your head, in terms of an English meaning, not necessarily regarding marriage?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To to seal, to uh that's uh the best I can come up with for the moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To seal, to to seal a bargain, to seal a relationship.
unidentified		Cement.
		Make solid something like that.
		Yeah, okay.
		Okay.
		I was going to suggest a domestic partnership changed in the law such that responsibility for children, responsibility for other family members would somewhat be separated from two people who just wanted to live together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it would solve, I think, a whole lot of controversy over the tax code and over, let's say, special privileges, special classes, special categories of the Well, right now, with our present tax code the way it is, there's actually a penalty to the partnership that we have that we call marriage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can heterosexual marriage.
unidentified		Right.
		So what I'm proposing is that all domestic partnerships be treated the same way from a legal and economic standpoint, whether it is homosexual or heterosexual, provided there are no children and obviously no third parties involved.
		In other words, bigamy is not permitted.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As soon as someone decides to have a child, an entirely different contractual relationship Once we give up on the traditional relationship that we support or penalize, however it may be at the time, with tax manipulation, then why don't we give up on it all?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, why would bigamy, under such a circumstance, remain a taboo?
unidentified		Why would anybody go part of the way?
		Well, no.
		Well, yeah, maybe.
		I'm going most of the way.
		But what I'm trying to preserve is, I think, a value that homosexuality as well as heterosexuality espouses, which is a commitment to spend your life with one person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but once you're ready to cast aside the heterosexual relationship or include with it the homosexual relationship, then you might as well include any form of domestic partnership that anybody cares to talk about, whatever it is.
unidentified		I am intending to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then what's the matter with two wives?
		Two husbands.
		Why shouldn't they be entitled to?
		And they would make that argument.
unidentified		I'm not saying necessarily that that should be illegal.
		I guess what I'm saying is I would treat a one-on-one relationship as something more special than other Relationships.
		The other is up for discussion, I guess, is the way I would put it.
		The main point is I wanted to separate childbearing from living together.
		And that was the main distinction.
		I can concede your other point if you want me to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do, but see, then that makes my point, that the moment we begin moving off the road that we're on now, there is not going to be an end to it, but maybe there will be an end to us.
unidentified		Well, what would be the if I think it would add responsibility to partners who have to decide whether or not to have a child, you would no longer have the same tax penalties and tax benefits that now put incentives in all the wrong places.
unidentified		and there would be no negative stigma to any two people wanting to live together under a contractual basis and keep the privacy of what goes on in their bedroom to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess I'm just...
		I guess I'm just arguing that once we begin down that road, it's a long road.
		And it doesn't stop where you suggest it might stop.
		And it leads to not a place that I want to go.
unidentified		Well, I guess it would stop where the public would let it stop in terms of what they would legislate along the lines of bigamy, for example.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		my suggestion to you is the public would realize quickly that once they made that change, there would be many other changes that would be made.
unidentified		I can't argue because we're not there, but as I say, my main thrust was trying to distinguish the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a legitimate argument, and let's see how everybody responds to it.
unidentified		Perhaps we could solve one of the two problems and not the other as well.
unidentified		If someone could think of a way around that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		It's an argument worth making, and it's an argument worth having the audience respond to.
		To me, it's a road that once you begin going down it and making homosexual relationships inclusive with heterosexual, then you've opened the door to arguments, similar arguments, from literally all kinds of groups.
		So it's not an argument easily made from the way I think about it.
		Was to the Rockies?
		You're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		I'm Cole from California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And let's see.
		I was surprised to see something on an early morning talk show this morning.
		They were covering in part the trial of McVeigh in the Oklahoma City bombing.
		Yes.
		And it showed a clip of one of the mothers of two of the children that were killed in the bombing from an earlier show.
		And this mother and her father expressed some suspicion that they saw that morning before the bombing took place bomb squads in the area ready.
		And I'd never seen that before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe, you know, there's a lot of things, sir, that we don't know about the Oklahoma bombing.
		There may have been some sort of warning issued up that we don't even know about.
		And if there was, you know, there's going to be a bomb or whatever is somebody would say, there are frequently things like that done before bombings.
		Maybe they were alerted.
unidentified		Yeah, that's possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
unidentified		That's possible.
unidentified		Do you know who's going to be on Dreamland Sunday?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do if I look.
		Yeah.
		Let me see.
		Can I get to it?
		It's going to be Raymond Fowler, Raymond, Dr. Fowler, author of Watchers 2 and Betty Andreessen Luca together.
		And I'm sure you're familiar with both those names.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		Okay, thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
		Take care.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, this is Jim in Baton Rouge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jim.
unidentified		I really enjoy your show.
		I have a newspaper route, and so that's how I get to listen to most of it.
		Unfortunately, station here cuts you off a little early.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Baton Rouge is kind of east.
unidentified		Well, I wanted to talk about a couple of things.
unidentified		One of the things I haven't heard addressed, and it may have been a misprint, but I haven't heard anything about that, and that was that, and it's about Mr. Buchanan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And that was that he was for a five-year moratorium on legal immigration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I believe that is correct.
unidentified		And what's kind of a cooling off period.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't necessarily disagree.
		I agree with most of what Buchanan says on immigration.
		Immigration to America.
		I'm not against immigration.
		Not at all.
		It has strengthened us.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But like any good soup, if you throw too many wild ingredients in, you run the chance of spoiling it.
		Immigration has strengthened us, but immigration at the levels we're suffering it now, underline the word suffering, is harmful.
		So I support certainly a big modify.
		I want the borders.
		The word isn't sealed.
		We have a right to know who's coming and going.
		And the other Republicans who are making noises now about how wrong it would be to have a wall or to have enforcement by military or whoever it would take to enforce our borders, they're out to lunch.
		It's a federal mandate that we enforce our borders, and we've ignored it for too long, and it's economically threatening our future.
		Millions of people.
		So I agree with Buchanan on that.
unidentified		Another thing, you may recall a lady that called you earlier in the week, and she was sharing with you about a rainbow she saw.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		And I had the fortune to live in West Texas in Alpine, where you may remember there was an earthquake in April.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's correct.
unidentified		In fact, I was standing outside of my pigeon loft of the water I was changing and I got to feel it, which was quite an interesting experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bet.
unidentified		Just being out on the open ground there.
		But it's pretty open in that area, and there were rainbows, double rainbows, quite often double rainbows actually.
		And I chased one down because I could see where it was near the dump.
		And just like you said, well, actually like she said too, it was gold at the end of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I never found the end of one.
unidentified		But you couldn't get to it because it was just like a mirage.
unidentified		As soon as you'd get to it, it would move away a little bit more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		And actually I chased a couple of the ends of it, and it was incredible to look through it and actually see the rocks and the grass and I guess cattle actually in a couple of instances.
		And they all had kind of a golden glow.
		But it was, I think, because you were looking through the crystals.
		But it was quite an experience.
		But as you said, you really, it looked like you could get to it, but you sure couldn't get to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there really was a day when I thought there might be something at the end of a rainbow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, maybe a little Irish guy and a pot of gold.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something.
		At least something somewhat mystical.
		And so I chased them.
		I did.
		I chased rainbows, I admit it.
		I used to do that sort of thing.
		I used to be fascinated with weather.
		I still am.
		And so I chased rainbows.
		Never got to them.
		Thank you very much.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		I did.
		In a car, too.
		You know, take this road, take that road.
		It's obviously over there.
		I did it with somebody else, too.
		I mean, why not?
		That lady claims she actually reached the golden, glowing end of a rainbow.
		I never made that.
		As this fellow said, it always moved, tantalized me and moved, and then, of course, finally disappeared before I could reach the very end of it.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air, high.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Yes, it's off now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay, good.
unidentified		Vern from Utah.
		Yes, sir.
		I'm concerned with you, Art, about what is reported about an accident, which would damage many people.
		Very unfortunate.
		He referred to it as unthinkable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Horrible if it is done by one of our own.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		But I think it requires us not to stop thinking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, I agree.
unidentified		There are some things, most of which have come by way of your program, that I will just mention.
		It doesn't take a lot of discussion, but let me mention a few that I think might, if we keep thinking, give us some thoughts other than our immediate reaction.
		You had on there a man who was hit by lightning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I did, yes.
unidentified		And had an after-death experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		He mentioned that he had had CIA connection, worked with some agency.
		You asked him the question.
		Had he killed anyone?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		He said yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I recall, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And sometimes when these actions are taken, they misdirect so that it's never known who really did the killing.
unidentified		They try and cause, these agencies do, us to assume it's other than their involvement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What you're saying, you need not take all this time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying you think the government may have wrecked the train for their own purposes.
unidentified		No, I agree with what you have said, that there are among civilian groups and militia groups and also among agency groups hotheads.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
unidentified		And it's possible that these hotheads are able to infiltrate these other groups and influence them.
unidentified		Now, that is being indicated in some of the reports coming out of Oklahoma.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's probably true.
unidentified		That the background of some of these men that are being tried now had influence of others who were hotheads from one agency or another.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't deny it.
		They're on a collision course, sir.
		I've been saying so for a long, long time now.
unidentified		But that doesn't say that citizen groups or militia groups are among those who are really trying to be loyal patriots.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nor, sir, did I say that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't say that.
unidentified		I'm not charging you.
unidentified		I'm just saying I'm recalling some of the things that happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the end, sir, in the end.
		In the end, sir, it doesn't matter who the hell it is.
		It really doesn't.
		Whether it's a nutball, right-wing, left-wing, middle-wing groups, nutball groups doing this, or it's wild-card people in agencies, BATF or whoever, it doesn't matter.
		If this is the direction we're headed, the collision is inevitable and the result is inevitable.
unidentified		Yes, and the moral fiber of a people is at stake.
unidentified		I mean, as a moral factor here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sir, our whole, thank you very much.
		Our whole way of life, the whole idea that is America is at stake.
		Everything.
		It's all on the line, ultimately.
		And if we continue the way we are now, we're going to turn ourselves into another Yugoslavia or worse.
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of February 15th, 1996 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music Back to the lines we go, and the first time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yeah, how you doing, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doing fine.
unidentified		This is the nomad from Denver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Just got one big concern.
unidentified		Where are the Sattler brothers?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're right here.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		I'd love to hear them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean I missed them in a night the whole night I didn't get to the Sattler Brothers?
unidentified		Well, hey, I'm getting pretty concerned here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, sir.
unidentified		you can bring those out for me.
		I sure would appreciate it to wrap up the minute.
		Woo!
		I keep hearing your concerns about my happiness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Denver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Denver, a big country music area.
unidentified		If I were walking in your shoes, I wouldn't be wearing a...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know, I'm just talking.
unidentified		I'm getting my friends a word about me, I'm having a lot of fun.
unidentified		Counting flowers on the wall, that don't bother me at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something about this song, I don't know what it is.
unidentified		Playing solid air so dumb, with the deck of 51...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		This is Lee from St. Louis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing, Lee?
unidentified		Oh, we're fine.
		Just a couple comments.
		One, on this Taiwan incident that could likely happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I think you've got to remember that Taiwan with a population of 21 million has more than a capacity to defend itself against the Chinese military that really doesn't have that much capability to land troops.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, if China goes after Taiwan, sir, it's going to be bloody as hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not saying Taiwan can't defend itself.
unidentified		Oh, I agree with you, but when you're talking several hundred miles, you have to remember that the Chinese Navy is just not capable of sustaining the kind of operations that we had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true, but the Chinese, sir, can rain down missile after missile after missile on Taiwan.
unidentified		But Taiwan could respond in kind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not so sure about that.
unidentified		But they do have a missile technology that we gave them in the late 60s and early 70s, which I'm sure they have worked on since that time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, either way, all I'm saying is it would be bloody.
		It certainly would be bloody.
		And it even might be likely if this election elects a president and decides to mandate independence.
		I think China will strike out one way or the other.
		And if it begins, it's going to be awful.
		And we're going to have a choice to make, not an easy one.
unidentified		I think the choice we need to make is we need to support a fellow democracy.
		And I think we should recognize their independence.
		Because if we were to, then the European countries would, your Asian countries would follow along.
		And I think that would put China in a box where they couldn't really do a lot without.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you know, China doesn't give a rap's back end about what the world thinks.
		They proved that at Tiananmen Square, and they prove it again.
		China's still an absolutely rock-hard communist nation.
		Don't ever make any mistake about that.
		Politically, they're as rock-hard communist as they've ever been, sir.
		I appreciate the call, and we're going to have to spend more time on that.
		And unfortunately, I'm afraid we're going to get the opportunity.
		Let's do the Rockies.
		You're on the air without much time here.
		Oh.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Let me turn the radio down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, turn it down quick because we only have seconds.
		In fact, very few seconds.
		Good night, America.
		Well, you know what?
		That's all you've got time to say, so say it out loud, sir.
unidentified		Good night, America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You got the honors tonight.
		From the high desert, thank you all.
		Nick Begich, tomorrow night.

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