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Feb. 15, 1996 - Art Bell

02:55:09

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Western Bigfoot Society - Ray Crowe

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	Thank you.
	Welcome to the Center for the Arts and Sciences.
	This is a presentation of the Center for the Arts and Sciences.
	Thanks for watching!
	Welcome to ArcBell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 15, 1996.
	From the high desert and the great American southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, across all these many time zones, stretching from the Tahitian Islands, brings a certain vision, Hawaii, all the way across this great flyover land, to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, south, well into South America, north, To Santa country in the pole.
	This is live overnight talk radio.
	I'm Art Bell.
	The program is named Coast to Coast AM.
	Never the same.
	Always something a little different for you.
	Tonight shall be no exception.
	I want to tell you I've got a big announcement.
	Coming up at midnight tonight.
	Our time in about 55 minutes.
	Something like that.
	Big announcement and so I will just Clench my teeth and not say a whole lot more about it.
	I've now got two other announcements that I'm going to make.
	One is a tomorrow night's program.
	I had occasion to, for about 30 minutes today, talk with the program manager, the director, the guy who is running Project Harp in Alaska, John Heckscher, he's in Boston.
	And I talked to him for about 30 minutes, and I had a whale of a conversation with him, which I did not regard as a satisfactory conversation for a number of reasons, and they will become apparent tomorrow night, uh, when I have Dr. Nick Biggage back on the program from Alaska.
	And yeah, that's right, we're gonna talk about HAARP.
	Uh, believe me, we're gonna talk about HAARP.
	So you don't wanna miss that.
	That's tomorrow night.
	A little change of plans, Dr. Nick Begich, subject to HAARP as a result of a conversation I had earlier today.
	So we're going to look once again into this incredible project up in Alaska with what's called an ionospheric heater and the implications of it and my conversations with the director.
	We're going to talk a little bit, once again, with Dr. Begich about that for reasons, as I said, that are going to become very apparent to you.
	Now, tonight, I'm going to do something here in the first hour in a moment that I've been very much wanting to do and I've been pursuing, as a lot of you know, and that is the story of Bigfoot.
	I've been looking for somebody who knows something about Bigfoot, and Ray was going to be with us tomorrow evening, but I've moved him up to this evening for the latter reasons regarding what's going to occur tomorrow night.
	And Ray was kind enough to jump up to the position, and so in a moment we're going to a man who heads the Western Bigfoot Association in Oregon.
	And his name is Ray Crow, and he'll be with us in just a moment.
	In a quick and streamlined fashion.
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	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	I think now, as we look back, we can probably say with pretty good certainty that some people in government might have been aware of what was going on and they turned their cheek.
	The other way.
	Just to let it happen.
	I also believe that some bigger groups got involved with Al-Qaeda to do what they did on that horrible day.
	This wasn't just a small group of people who came in and did their thing.
	There was a much bigger picture there.
	And if you see the events that have unfolded since this tragedy occurred, how we've lost rights, how we used it to go into Afghanistan and Iraq, and how it has really not stopped.
	Because it's going to continue.
	We're going to have more and more episodes, and more and more involvement in other countries.
	And just mark my word, this planet is going through an incredible change.
	And thank God we've got you here to talk with us about it.
	Now we take you back to the night of February 15th, 1996, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Now I'm going up to Oregon, and I'm not sure where in Oregon, we'll ask.
	A place where Ray Crow is.
	He heads the Western Bigfoot Association.
	Ray, good evening.
	Good evening.
	How are you, Art?
	Just fine.
	Thank you for taking the time to join us this evening.
	Ray, I have been desperately seeking information, good information, on the whole Bigfoot thing.
	We've heard so much about it.
	I've even got a Bigfoot Well, Western Bigfoot Society is just one of those things that popped up out of nowhere.
	and i i frankly think might be first of all
	ray how did you get involved what's the western bigfoot association and uh...
	what what what's it all about well western bigfoot society is just one of those things
	that popped up out of nowhere uh... i ever have a little used bookshop one of my
	customers is interested in bigfoot and
	actually have an arrest and back in the summer of ninety one
	And they took me out into the field and right off the bat I was finding things.
	As a matter of fact, so many that I thought I was being set up.
	But I finally came to the conclusion, no, it was just coincidental and there was something out there doing strange things.
	You mean they thought, you thought they were like the old gold prospectors that would scatter nuggets out in the field?
	Yeah, exactly.
	But the group that took me out was the kind that liked to ride back and forth in their cars with their guns and things like that and dressed in camo gear.
	I'd been a naturalist most of my life and I liked to just get out and snoop around on foot.
	So I had them deliberately leave me behind, which is something if they were setting me up they wouldn't have known about.
	But they weren't gone 15 minutes before I found a set of Bigfoot tracks going down the side of the road.
	And that's when I thought I was being shut up.
	But then again, I found a... Who chose... They chose the location, right?
	Yes, uh-huh.
	There's a little campsite way back up in the hills and we'd stayed overnight there.
	This is up near Yale Reservoir in Washington.
	Incidentally, you're talking to Portland, Oregon.
	Oh, okay, good.
	Yes, and so I found a game trail.
	They told me to watch the game trails because the Bigfoot likes to eat deer and elk and things.
	Right off the bat there, I found trees that were broken at heights that didn't really appear to be something a human would have done, and then I found a big long hair on one of the trees.
	And to this day, those people won't talk to me because I kept the hair, which has made me think, well, gee, I might very well have a good hair.
	There are ways in this day and age to test these things to see whether they're good or not, but, gee, I'm getting an awful lot of mileage out of this, and I hate to give it to some scientist to cut up and lose in his back drawer.
	Well, as a matter of fact, there's some scientist, uh, it's a, uh, wire story, that is now, they are testing some Bigfoot, uh, fur or hair or whatever you want to call it.
	Well, yes and no.
	The problem with this is the fellow that selected the hair was on Good Morning America once and said that he faked cracks.
	And so that, you know, we immediately wonder, well, I wonder where the hair came from.
	He submitted some hair once before that turned out to be synthetic fibers.
	Right.
	And so, you know, we're just holding our breath.
	We'll wait and see.
	You know, even the worst drunk coaxer, drug addict, whatever, could see a Bigfoot and could find Bigfoot evidence.
	So, you know, we're not writing him off completely, but we're keeping Pretty jaundiced eye on him.
	Okay.
	I take it you are sort of a... even though you speak on the subject, you're a little bit skeptical, or skeptical at least, of the claims made by many people in the field about Bigfoot.
	Yes, as a matter of fact, I'm very skeptical.
	But I listen to everything and I don't let my skepticism overrun when I'm talking to somebody.
	I just let them like they're telling me the truth.
	I do have a newsletter, and I write all these things up in my newsletter, and I let my readers decide, well, hey, is this a good report or not?
	If something hokey shows up, I'll try to include that, too.
	All right.
	Ray, what is the best evidence so far that you've seen, and you pay attention to all of this, for the existence of this creature?
	Well, so far right now, I suppose everybody's seen the Roger Patterson film from October 1967 of the Bigfoot running across the creek bed.
	That's right.
	And we all think that's a good photo, and that's real good evidence that Bigfoot actually exists.
	And then we go on from there, and gee, there's footprints found all over, hair dropping samples.
	I've had a lot of hair samples come in, though, and I keep having them checked all the time, and they're bear or horse or dog or something like that.
	Nothing that really stands out as being Bigfoot.
	Same thing with fecal droppings that come in.
	There's just no way of checking them.
	What we need is for somebody that sees a Bigfoot to just run up and grab a handful of hair out of him.
	I don't have the evidence.
	We do have one person that's oriented in that direction.
	I don't know, I suppose a lot of your listeners have heard of Peter Byrne before.
	Ah, that's a familiar name, yeah.
	Okay, he's very well funded from the Boston Academy of Science.
	Has a lot of really high-tech equipment.
	And his idea is using motion detectors and infrared cameras and things that transmit back to the home base To pick up a Bigfoot spore or something moving through the woods that will move his motion detectors.
	It's over 300 pounds.
	And they'll sight one of these things.
	Well, they have a contract with Hillsboro Helicopter here in Oregon.
	And what they will do is go up in one of those infrared devices and hunt for the creature.
	Assuming they do find one and they use the geosatellite location devices to Track its movements with and then they all try and on the ground get a choke point.
	That is, you know, force it into some place where they can get close to it.
	That's a really serious effort.
	And they have a very sophisticated dart device.
	It's not the kind that knocks them out.
	It's a hollow one.
	And what they want to do is take a tissue sample.
	And this is a device that's been used in Southeast Asia on orangutans and doesn't seem to hurt the creatures at all and seems to be very reliable.
	In this case, then we'll have our sample.
	That's the equivalent of running up and grabbing a handful of hair, of course.
	We really wish him the best of luck on this, and we support him all we can.
	I have an awful lot of reports that come into my organization, which is Western Bigfoot Society, incidentally.
	Thank you.
	And I'm the director.
	And we're just really, really hoping that something comes.
	He has another year and a half to run on this project, and everything's in place that we know of.
	Reports keep coming in all the time.
	We don't know whether they're good or whether they're bad.
	All right, that's one approach.
	That is a non-lethal approach to Bigfoot.
	There is a scientist up in Washington State, and I think it was in one of the Seattle papers, and then otherwise in other papers.
	There was a report that suggested he's saying, look, The first Bigfoot, any hunter, anybody finds, ought to be shot and killed.
	And the second one, when the second one is shot and killed, whoever did it ought to be hung.
	He's saying for the sake of science, that at least one Bigfoot ought to be shot, killed, and I presume dissected and examined at great length.
	And that's the reasoning behind What do you think about that?
	Well, we're talking to a doctor, Dr. Krantz, of course, and he's very well known, and his opinions are very well known.
	We just think they're rather outdated, is all.
	You know, back in the 1930s and so forth, if you wanted to find a new panda or a new whatever, you always brought in a corpse and dissected it.
	But today, things have changed a lot, and people's attitudes have changed a lot towards things out in the wild.
	And there's a very good probability this thing is human, which brings up a whole new story, of course, in the event that you killed one.
	Oh, it certainly would.
	Pardon?
	It certainly would.
	It'd be called murder.
	Yes, we'll get to that.
	You've got plenty of time.
	As a matter of fact, I've got a pretty good story to tell you on that, too.
	Okay.
	Anyways, there's an awful lot of people like Peter Byrne.
	Peter Byrne used to be a tiger hunter way back down when.
	But he reversed around and has become a strict conservationist.
	He's just returned recently from Nepal, where he's been working on a wildlife reserve.
	And I had a hint that he was chasing down people who were poisoning tigers and such.
	But he doesn't want to see one of these things harmed in any way, shape, or form.
	That's the reason the DART approach.
	Many other people have thought of tranquilizing them in the past, but that could be very dangerous also.
	Well, tranquilizers, I think, have to take into account the mass, weight, size of the animal.
	Exactly.
	And if you're wrong, then the animal could very well die, or it could get pretty pissed at getting darted and chased.
	I don't know if I can say that on the radio or not.
	Ah, you can't.
	Too late anyways.
	But it could come right after you, too.
	So, we tell everybody, you know, When you see something like that, photograph it, look at everything you can, try to communicate if you can.
	Oddly enough, these things are incredibly curious.
	I have many, many reports.
	As a matter of fact, this is my first story.
	I was told by this old fellow up in Carson, Washington, Davis Perry is his name, that if you take a stick and you wrap it on a stump or a tree and make a knocking noise, And you do it in a pattern like three wraps and pause and two wraps and pause, you'll get an answer.
	And so I spent all day wandering around the woods feeling like a fool doing this one day, but all of a sudden I got an answer.
	And it just floored me.
	I was just really shocked.
	And I've mentioned this to several other people since then, and they've had the same results.
	Quite a few people, as a matter of fact.
	And I found that there was a society at one time in California, the Bay Area group, where they've done the same thing.
	And they'd even written a paper on it.
	A fellow had made a big drum-like thing and taken it up out in the woods and banged it around and had replies.
	Something to do with the curiosity of the things, or maybe it's some communication thing that they recognize themselves and you just don't really know.
	All right.
	Well, what about this?
	You alluded to the fact that Bigfoot might be human.
	What exactly Do you think Bigfoot is?
	Okay, now my personal opinion, and there's lots and lots of people that disagree with this, Dr. Krantz in particular, I think it's an early man, and I'm going for a relict Homo erectus.
	And I have a lot of reasons for that.
	A relict?
	Wait, wait, a relict Homo erectus?
	Yes, it's something that sort of, they were, disappeared from our scene half a million years ago.
	And scientists believe they're extinct.
	But there's a lot of us that believe, well, there's always a few of them hanging around still in the Caucasus Mountains, in Asia, even in Europe.
	Are you talking now about an earlier version of man?
	Yeah, well, Java Ape Man, or Peking Man, was a Homo Erectus.
	I think most people are familiar with those terms, although we have a half a million years of evolution to account for.
	That's why I say a relic.
	One of the main reasons I think this is that the Patterson creature that we were talking about earlier is a female and has breasts.
	Humans have breasts.
	Apes do not.
	Dr. Krantz believes the thing is a relic ape called Gigantopithecus that supposedly went extinct about the same time.
	I don't agree with him.
	A lot of other people do agree with him.
	I get into a lot of good arguments from time to time.
	There'll be no way of proving that until that dart actually gets into one of them.
	Would that one moving video we have lend itself toward one theory or the other?
	The Patterson one?
	That's right.
	Yeah, the thing has breasts.
	And that's my main thing from it.
	Uh, there's a lot of other, you know, one of the arguments is, you know, well, if it's an early man, why is it hairy?
	Because early men were great, brave hunters and they chased antelope over the plains until they dropped and therefore they lost their hair and became man.
	But now science is beginning to look just exactly to the opposite.
	He thinks those early people were scavengers and not hunters.
	Uh, very well, they might be hairy.
	The size.
	Bigfoot's are reported to be a pretty good size.
	That one there in California was a 7'3", I believe.
	But then Homo erectus is a pretty good guy.
	Leakey has uncovered one in Africa.
	Narakomi boy, I think they call it.
	He was a 6'0", and generally they're 6'0".
	Well, I'm 6'0".
	Okay, right.
	And, uh, which isn't really one you consider our average human span from some of our basketball players and their feet.
	Uh, you can see, well, there's no big stretch of the imagination to get a big foot out of it, uh, at seven foot.
	Interesting.
	I, uh, you, you described them then really as humans.
	In other words, I almost imagine that a big foot could either be part of society, Or just be a human being, not caring one bit for society, and living in the wild as other animals live in the wild.
	Could that be?
	Yes and no, but we're talking about two different species.
	All right.
	For instance... Ray, hold your thought there.
	We're at a break point.
	We've got a breaker at the bottom of the hour.
	Ray Crowe is my guest.
	He's director of the Western Bigfoot Society.
	Uh, up in Oregon, in Portland, as a matter of fact, and we'll be back with Ray in just a moment.
	You're listening to Arc Bell, somewhere in time.
	tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 15, 1996.
	Thank you for watching.
	This is a recording of the concert.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 15th, 1996.
	And top of the morning, or evening, everybody.
	Whatever the case may be, welcome in.
	I'm Art Bell.
	And you are listening to Coast to Coast AM.
	My guest is Ray Crowe, director of the Western Bigfoot Society.
	And he'll be back here in just a moment.
	Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM has a new name.
	Coast Insider.
	You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price.
	The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app.
	You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows.
	That's over a thousand shows for you to collect and enjoy.
	If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
	Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up.
	Explore your universe with Coast to Coast AM and George Norrie.
	If this was up to you, would you go back to the moon or would you go straight to Mars?
	That's not even the question I would ask.
	There could be scientific reasons to go to one destination, geopolitical reasons to go to another.
	There could be tourist business reasons to go, maybe you want to mine an asteroid.
	And so then, when you reach that state, then the solar system becomes your backyard.
	And now you have the freedom to go where you want.
	That's what a space-faring nation needs to do.
	Now we take you back to the night of February 15th, 1996, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	We're going back to Ray Crow, who is the director of the Western Bigfoot Society, is in Portland,
	We're talking about, Ray, what Bigfoot is, and I had a guy, joking, obviously, I think, last night, send me a message, and the message was, Art, I'm a Bigfoot, and I shave every day before I go to work.
	Uh-huh.
	My whole body.
	Well, if a Bigfoot was hairless, would a Bigfoot, could a Bigfoot, in your opinion, walk the streets of our cities and not be known or discerned?
	Well, I think you can put a suit on him, probably, and he would probably get by as long as nobody spoke to him.
	I don't think they have an oral language like we do.
	Their throats, I don't think, are built for it.
	But, yes, I think he can put a hat on and a suit and a tie and he can walk down the street if he was all shaved, clean shaved.
	But that just gets a bit away from... Well, it does, but I was just trying to find out... Yeah, like, for instance, you know, I say they're a man, but that's like...
	A deer and an elk are in the same family of animals, but they're completely different.
	They have different habits, and they do different things, and they have different languages between them, whatever.
	The same is like with early humans and ourselves.
	I don't think we could breed.
	That's not for sure yet.
	What I'm trying to make you see is there is a big distinction.
	And the thing I'd mentioned to you before about what I was talking about was, in Skamania County in the state of Washington, it's against the law to kill a Bigfoot.
	And the reason they enacted that law was to keep people from running up all around in the woods with guns and so forth.
	But it's sort of been picked up as something that should be applied everywhere in the country.
	But to put this to a test once, we thought it'd be fun.
	We went to Carson, Washington, to the Bigfoot campground, and we had a meeting.
	This was last August.
	And our meeting was a mock trial.
	And the actual brunt of the whole thing was that the law reads that if the thing is an ape, and you convince the coroner that it's an ape, then it's only a gross misdemeanor to kill one.
	But if it is indeed proved to be human, Then you're going to be bound over for murder.
	And so we had one of our members, Mr. Larry Lund, who's probably listening in, he volunteered to be the killer.
	And we got a stuffed gorilla costume and put it in a costume and a bag piper piped it in.
	And the police brought him in handcuffs and a local sheriff was in on it.
	And as a matter of fact, we had three judges show up.
	Wow.
	It's kind of like the modern version of the Scopes trial, almost, isn't it?
	Well, exactly.
	With exception of this particular time we had O.J.
	on.
	And so we modeled it sort of after that.
	We had a pretty good judge up there, Barney, I think his last name now.
	At any rate, he did a really excellent job.
	And we ended up with a hung jury, so we didn't want to leave everybody hanging here.
	But we had two DNA experts, both of them PhDs, came in and testified.
	We had biologists, police officers, forest people.
	Sounds like the DNA evidence didn't impress your jury any more than that of the O.J.
	Well, you know, our prime one came in.
	She had all big bottles of DNA and charts and graphs and I think it really went over the head of most of the jury.
	Just like the O.J.
	trial.
	And the other one came in and says, well, more or less like the O.J.
	type thing, that, uh, hey, these tests were all proven to be invalid from that one place.
	Consequently, these are all in doubt, too.
	Which completely threw our other prosecutor, our prosecutor for Lube, speaking of which, she was a very attractive young lady that flew up from Los Angeles to be our prosecuting attorney.
	Wasn't Marcia.
	Yeah, that's what everybody called her.
	But yeah, I'd say there were a lot of comparisons with the OJ trial here.
	But the point being is that this thing is thought of, people don't really know yet exactly what it is.
	Whether it is an ape, or whether it is a man.
	Rover Krantz wants to think that it's an ape, because then it is okay to take a specimen to collect one.
	Right.
	Oh, of course.
	Uh-huh.
	Whereas if it turns out to be human, then, of course, that'd be out-and-out murder, then.
	Right.
	Scientific curiosity turns into murder.
	Right, huh?
	And I'm sure, though, if there ever was brought to trial, it'd end up being a circus at any rate.
	But still, the teeth are there and maybe one of these days somebody, some hunter is going to do that.
	Go up and knock one of them things off and say, hey, here I am.
	I've killed one of them things.
	Of course, immediately somebody will confiscate the body, and it'll end up being dissected, and he won't get anything out of it other than that.
	It'll probably be taken to an Air Force base somewhere.
	That's possible.
	It's possible that's already been done.
	You know, it is.
	It really is.
	Of course, it'd be an air base in Ohio, no doubt.
	Yes.
	I have a tremendous amount of reports come in, and they're scattered all over the map in terms of what this creature is.
	I have people that believe in underground caves where they live as a society.
	I just had a report come in not too long back of a flying saucer near Ascot, Cadero, California that landed.
	Two of these things got out, took soil samples, got in and flew off again.
	This is one of the, you know, being a skeptic, this is one of the reports.
	I report them faithfully, but I always have a lot of doubts about them.
	All right, well, I've got one for you, Ray.
	Stand by just a second.
	I want you to listen to this, Ray.
	Somebody that I respect very, very much, Linda Howe, who appears on my Sunday show, Dreamland, got what seems to be a very, very credible tape of an alleged Bigfoot scream or yell actually recorded in the forest.
	and it was a quite a long story that i'm not going to bring you with
	right now ray but uh... here is that sound the
	not be very much disinclined to run up and grab a hunk of hair of that uh...
	uh...
	You know, as a matter of fact, I know the fellow who took that tape originally.
	Oh, you do?
	He's out of Los Angeles.
	You do?
	What can you tell us about it?
	What do you know?
	Anything is very good.
	As a matter of fact, I've had other tapes come in, two other tapes come in, and the sounds are very similar.
	There's another, both these are from Oregon, but then I have another one from North California, and they're still very similar.
	I think they've got an actual creature in there.
	I think it's a good tape.
	Yeah, so do I.
	The one from North California, they had done a bunch of tests in laboratories and so forth, and there were some pitches and things in there that just go outside of the range of anything that anybody else, any other animals normally makes.
	This is one of the, I don't know if it's a communication thing, that is, here I am, you know, where's my mate, or this is my territory, I don't want anybody else here.
	Even a robin will do that.
	Of course.
	So, there again, it's a matter we've got to learn more about these things.
	Alright, toward that end, and I'm probably asking you to speculate or guess now, but what else can you do when you're talking about Bigfoot?
	Is there any guess, has anybody made any guess, about how many there might be?
	What is the population of Bigfoot?
	I mean, it's silly to ask, I know, because we can barely get our hands on one, or can't.
	Uh-huh.
	But what do you think it might be?
	We've made a lot of approaches.
	We've done some analysis of population studies of gorillas and tried to compare them and things like that.
	Supposedly the best guess right now is Dr. Krantz's, and I'll go along with that, that for every 10 or 100 bears there's one Bigfoot.
	Which would mean across the nation there's thousands of them.
	Because these things occur in Every state we have reports from.
	Florida and Pennsylvania are a couple of the biggest report areas.
	And then out on the west coast, of course, Oregon, Washington, and California.
	But there, you know, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, you wouldn't expect them out in these dry areas.
	No, you wouldn't.
	But there again, it's because we have this thing in our head that, hey, these are deep forest things.
	The only place they live is in virgin forest.
	And that's not true.
	They like the secondary areas best.
	They come into Uh, the outskirts of communities, raid garbage cans, uh, do all kinds of stuff like that, especially if it's a bad winter and they're hungry.
	Sounds like, uh, what a bear would do.
	Bears... Exactly!
	I know you can pretty much pattern these things after the bears, with the exception that they're a whole different critter.
	Right now, we have a sort of a stroke of luck going.
	There's a town called Malala, Oregon, recently in the news from all the flooding and stuff.
	Oh yes.
	But anyway, on the Malala River south of town, there's one of the residents down there, and I don't know what his reasons are, but he's been putting cabbages and apples out for these things.
	Consequently, well, they're not really tamed, but we're getting an awful lot of reports out of that area, and they seem to be good reports.
	We're getting them from responsible people who seem to know what they're doing, and they're going out there.
	At any rate, most recently, just, well, it'll be December now.
	It was the last report and the thing was pouring rain in the campground and the thing was standing behind the tree just staring at some campers and stayed there for quite a while until one of the campers got up and walked towards it and it faded back into the woods again.
	There was also, Ray, wasn't there a recent, I can't remember if it was a hard copy or one of those shows, they were doing a Hollywood shoot.
	Yeah.
	And they were inside the car and they filmed this creature which walked across You know, what we saw on the screen, they were shooting through the car window.
	Are you familiar with that?
	Yes, very familiar.
	As a matter of fact, we studied that tape very closely.
	We had the original, quite a bit of different language than what they had on TV and hard copy.
	I can imagine.
	But the point is, if you look at it real close, it almost seems like it's baggy in the legs.
	The feet are white.
	Our impression is that it's wearing tennis shoes.
	No, we don't think too much of that film.
	It might very well be real, but I don't think so.
	As a matter of fact, to tell the truth, the news media isn't really very discriminating.
	They're pretty sensationalistic, actually.
	So, if something is reported on the newspaper or the TV or something like that to your listeners, you know, I'd take very seriously the possibility of being hoaxed.
	All right, let me extend that now.
	There is a fellow named Cliff Crook.
	Yes, there's another one.
	The shadows go all different ways.
	Well, let me set it up for you.
	I've got a photograph.
	Alright.
	It is Cliff Crook's photograph, I guess.
	He says he bought it from somebody.
	Yes.
	And it shows what looks like an ape with no neck.
	It's almost like the neck is connected directly to the body and the arms are long.
	It's hairy and I know that you've seen it and it's a fairly sharp Clear, a photograph of something weird.
	And what is it that you've made out of that?
	We don't think, we think it's a model of some kind.
	There's all kinds of things that don't add up in that.
	For instance, this was supposedly taken in the summer, but the trees in the back don't have any leaves on it, like it was late fall or stuff.
	Some of the shadows don't match up.
	That is, they go one way and not the other way.
	Some of the grass in front of the thing, His normal grass is knee-high, meaning, hey, this is more probably just a model of some kind.
	We don't go along with that one at all, either.
	All right.
	Now, despite the fact that you've looked at some of these things that have really made the headlines, and you come away doubtful about them, you still have a basic belief that the Bigfoot thing is real, don't you?
	Exactly right.
	The problem is, about 90% of the reports that come in are Hoaxes, errors, one thing or another.
	But that still doesn't mean I don't pay any attention to them.
	Because I know there are some of those reports that are good and we do our best to investigate them all.
	But you never know.
	For instance, the Peter Byrne that I was talking about earlier once told me a story that he'd investigated of a state policeman that had come and told him about a Bigfoot sighting.
	Well he went back with a state policeman and the policeman was very embarrassed because there was just a big black stump there.
	The point being is that had he not gone to investigate that, then it would have gone down as a good sighting just because it was a state policeman.
	And so there are good stories and there are going to be poor stories.
	That's why I say even a drunk or dope addict or whatever, they could see windows as well as anybody else.
	You just have to look at the stories.
	We have one just came in recently and we'll be going to investigate that very soon as soon as the roads are open again.
	They're all flooded out.
	Landslides closed the roads east of Estacada and this is where a couple had gone into an old mining tunnel and they were just poking around and here was one of these things inside the front entrance of it.
	This is just east of the town of Estacada in Oregon and that was Let me glance at my note here.
	That was January the 2nd.
	We want to go up there and check that one out real close.
	They reported also that there was a nest or bed inside made of sticks and moss and ferns.
	We'd like to check that out.
	What do we know about the habitat of Bigfoot?
	Is it a nesting kind of thing, do you believe?
	Or lives in caves?
	Generally in the open, or what's the best guess?
	Very, very mixed.
	We get reports of all these things, and it's hard to nail them down.
	That's why I'd like to nail some of these bed reports.
	I have a lot of bed reports, for instance, where they've done this, well, on sticks with ferns and moss and things.
	So I pretty much think that's what they're doing.
	There's other reports, though, that tell of the things just in the snowstorms, just Buckling up on their knees and hunching their back and waiting out the snowstorm.
	So, in terms of caves, I don't really get many good cave reports.
	That's one of the reasons we want to check this one out, because it might very well be a good cave report.
	But mostly, even then, they're not deep caves like they live underground, but they'll be inside the lip or a rock overhang or something to keep out of the weather.
	Do you think Bigfoot would regard modern man as a predator?
	I'm sure every animal does if he was capable of regarding man as a predator.
	I'm sure many instances where people have taken pot shots at him.
	As a matter of fact, we often wondered, well, gee, what would be the attitude of a Bigfoot with a .22 shell in his shoulder towards white people then?
	Poor.
	Very poor.
	Very poor.
	Right, uh-huh.
	And every now and then I do get substantiated reports where these things are actually hurting people.
	But those reports are just really tough to substantiate.
	What advice would you give somebody, if you actually in the woods or wherever else, even out in the open, encountered one of these creatures, like any other wild animal, especially a bear, But don't run away, study it.
	Like even if you run from a bear or any wild animal, there's a good chance they'll chase you.
	Whereas if you just stand still and ignore them, or look the other way, don't stare them in the eyes, but take in all the detail you can.
	It'll be a unique experience if you run across one of these creatures.
	And try to remember what you can as a good witness.
	Yes, exactly.
	Make some notes, time of day, what the weather was, How long the creature's hair was, the shape of its head, the size, things like that.
	One other quick thing.
	I had multiple reports that Dan Rather, on his nightly newscast on CBS the other night, twice, once at the beginning of the program, once at the end, made a statement that Bigfoot was being added to the endangered species list.
	Have you heard that?
	I've heard this, and I've heard that Dan Rather said that, and I've talked to several people about it, and so far the best I can get is, until they prove it exists, they can't put it on the endangered species list.
	But, you know, there might be somebody else who might have done it anyway.
	I don't really know.
	We haven't substantiated that at all.
	Would you say that there is enough proof of the existence of Bigfoot, even just by tales and photos and some moving video, To justify, if you could do it, would you put Bigfoot on the endangered species list?
	That's a tough one to answer.
	I just don't really know, Art.
	Like we say, there's probably thousands of them.
	Once you put something on it, you bring it to official notice.
	Then museums are going to want to get out there, and naturalists are going to want to get out there and poke around in their private lives, which may or may not be good.
	It's true.
	Ray, listen, we're out of time, and I want to tell the audience all we've done is give a little tease.
	You're the guy I wanted for Bigfoot, and I've got you.
	Okay, can I give a plug?
	We're going to have you on April 14th on Dreamland.
	Okay, bye-bye.
	Thank you very much.
	That's Ray Crow.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Arc Battle, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast A.M.
	from February 15, 1996.
	The first song I ever wrote was a song called, I'm Sorry, I'm Sorry.
	I wrote this song in 1996.
	I wrote this song in 1996.
	I wrote this song in 1997.
	I wrote this song in 2000.
	you you
	Where is he?
	I'm going to find him.
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired February 15th, 1996.
	Top of the morning, everybody.
	Good to be here.
	Dear Art, love the show.
	This is a fax about the last hour we did, if you're just joining us.
	We did one hour with Ray Crowe up in Portland, who heads the Western Bigfoot Society.
	And it was a good hour.
	He'll be here April 14th on Greenland to do a show on Bigfoot.
	But Tom from Alhambra, California said, that tape you play, that's not a Bigfoot.
	That's a novice trying to install Windows 95.
	Yeah, I can imagine that might be the sound.
	Good evening, everybody.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	We've got a lot to do, and I've got some announcements.
	I spent about 30 minutes talking with the program manager of The Harp Project.
	That's right.
	The big guy.
	And I'm not going to go into great detail about the nature of that conversation.
	He was in Boston.
	But I did invite him on the program.
	His bosses wouldn't let him go on the program.
	And I told him he'd get a fair and honest interview.
	That I am not somebody who generally pins my guests up to the wall and sweats them.
	I don't do that.
	But without going into detail, uh, he's not gonna come on.
	Uh, won't come on.
	And, uh, despite my, uh, best urgings, and, uh, I've mentioned to him, and he's well aware, has heard the show with Dr. Nick Begich, uh, in Alaska on Harp.
	Uh, despite all that, and the bad PR that Harp has had, And I said, look, I'll give you a genuine opportunity to come on here and tell your side of the story.
	I did ask him a number of technical questions.
	And to sum it up, I was not at all pleased with the answers I got.
	And that made me a little angry.
	And I called Dr. Begich up in Alaska.
	And Dr. Begich is scheduled to be here tomorrow night.
	OK, 11 o'clock tomorrow night.
	And we'll go into some more detail about what the director of HAARP said, and what Dr. Begich says.
	But the director of HAARP has absolutely, the program managers, absolutely been given an opportunity to come on this program.
	And I said, repair whatever damage you think has been done to the reputation, public relations reputation of the HAARP project.
	Dr. Nick Begich is articulate, Very bright guy with a lot of good hard scientific data on what HAARP is and what it can do.
	Not sad, that'll be tomorrow night.
	Tomorrow night.
	Now, I've got an announcement to make and I've been waiting a long, long time to make this.
	It is with regard to my book.
	I wrote a book, a lot of you new listeners will not even know because I haven't been talking a lot about it lately.
	It's called The Art of Talk.
	And I poured a lot of my blood, sweat, and tears into this book.
	First, I thought I would never write a book.
	But these wonderful people at Paper Chase Press came along.
	I had an offer from HarperCollins and blah, blah, blah.
	Big companies, a couple other big companies, and I didn't do it.
	As I don't do TV, but Paper Chase came along and they actually came down here and saw me and met with me.
	And you know, they were fans of the show.
	And I think that's what helped.
	They knew the show.
	They knew what I wanted to do.
	And so we did it.
	And we wrote this book, The Art of Talk.
	It's a hardback book of the highest quality.
	And it's about my life.
	And believe me, I've had a weird one.
	It's about talk radio, the behind the scenes things over the years that I've wanted to be able to tell people about this program and what I've done.
	And I've been doing this program for going on 12 years now.
	Even though it may be new to a lot of you.
	So, you know, obviously in 12 years you collect a lot of things that you can't really talk about on the air.
	I decided that if I was going to write a book, it was going to be really, bluntly honest.
	And believe me, that's what this book is.
	Bluntly honest.
	Well, it turned out to be a huge success.
	We're actually about to go into the third printing now.
	And finally, we have an offer for you tonight that you're going to love.
	You know, I'm doing a book signing.
	It'll be March 16th at the Oregon Convention Center in Portland.
	And I'm looking forward to seeing you there.
	There will be a very limited number of books for sale there.
	There will be some, but there'll be a limited number, so you'd really be better to order now.
	And I'm going to make it very easy for you to do so.
	About... How long has it been?
	A month, month and a half ago, the Los Angeles Times did a big story on me.
	Oh, boy, I'll tell you something.
	The LA Times reporter came up here and we spent, I believe, about six hours together.
	And he brought with him a photographer who took about six rolls of film.
	Well, the shot they chose to run in the LA Times was a really good photograph and so what happened is paper chase negotiated with the L.A.
	Times uh... people and they got the rights to that photograph and this has been going back and forth and back and forth for a while anyway the bottom line is it is a pretty cool photograph and we've had it blown up into a beautiful eight by ten photograph uh... glossy uh... eight by ten photograph you know that you could put in a frame And I think you'll like it, and I think it catches me in a very fair way, a decent way.
	I like the picture.
	I like the picture.
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	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	I think now, as we look back, we can probably say with pretty good certainty that some people in government might have been aware of what was going on and they turned their cheek the other way just to let it happen.
	I also believe that some bigger groups got involved with Al-Qaeda to do what they did on that horrible day.
	This wasn't just a small group of people who came in and did their thing.
	There was a much bigger picture there.
	And if you see the events that have unfolded since this tragedy occurred, how we've lost rights, how we used it to go into Afghanistan and Iraq, and how it has really not stopped.
	Because it's going to continue.
	We're going to have more and more episodes, and more and more involvement in other countries.
	And just mark my word, this planet is going through an incredible change.
	And thank God we've got you here to talk with us about it.
	Now we take you back to the night of February 15th, 1996, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	All right.
	The debates.
	I saw the debates, uh, actually not once, but twice.
	I saw them when they began, uh, when they ran live on CNN, and then I saw a very, very interesting replay of them.
	I turned on, uh, CNN at 9 o'clock Pacific Time, and they were running the debates.
	Again.
	But this time, They had a little approval, disapproval meter.
	It was really interesting.
	They had about 40, 35, 40 people, chosen people, who had a little device in their hand.
	And they could, you know, they could, it went between 0 and 10.
	And when they liked something, they could turn it up.
	And when they didn't like something, they could turn it down.
	And they divided this between men and women.
	And they had, as the candidates would talk, I've dreamed about this for years.
	It was like a detect-o-meter.
	And these lines would go up and down and up and down, indicating whether the people, individually men and women, were approving or disapproving of what they were hearing.
	It's the damnedest thing you ever saw.
	Not a running lie detector or voice stress test, but the next best thing, 35 or 40 people collectively, and by the way generally seemingly in agreement, Uh, judging what the candidates were saying, and they let this graph go, uh, during the debate.
	It was amazing!
	Now, I think that I generally found myself pretty much in agreement, uh, with those people.
	And you could watch as various statements were made, and lines were followed by the candidates, or negative remarks were made, or positive things were said.
	You could watch the little graph go up and down below the center line, Either an approval or a sharp disapproval.
	Now, to me, in both cases, the clear winner of the debates was Alan Keyes.
	Dr. Keyes.
	And I've interviewed him here.
	Articulate.
	Convincing.
	Academically sound.
	Very much the biggest social conservative there, in my opinion.
	Alan Keyes was spectacular.
	Absolutely spectacular.
	The audience seemed to like Steve Forbes.
	Said things designed to please New Hampshire residents.
	They're not wild about tax.
	Steve Forbes came off, frankly, pretty well.
	Lamar Alexander.
	How many of you noticed that as Lamar talked, he was obviously very nervous.
	He was kind of bobbing up and down a lot.
	Had a case of the nerves.
	Pat Buchanan was hoarse.
	I may be there myself.
	I'm getting a cold.
	It's been years since I've had a cold, and I'm coming down with a cold.
	And Pat, of course, has been speaking incessantly, and he was, of course, tired, but hit his populist themes on trade, and he hit Bob Dole.
	Bob Dole, kind of as Bob Dole always is, a bit dour, did not seem to score very well.
	In some areas he did What would be called OK.
	But he was kind of dour dole.
	You know, Bob Dole is a good guy.
	But at times, his presentation seems negative.
	He hit back a couple of times, as Bob Dole does, at Buchanan.
	And there was a bit of a fight that ensued.
	Maury Taylor was received well.
	Simple.
	He too was nervous.
	He's not an effective speaker, I thought.
	Bob Dornan, the fire-in-the-belly guy, was the one who went after Clinton, and not so much the others.
	And in that way, Bob Dornan was certainly a standout.
	But again, I'm going to say it.
	If you were to score this debate on substance and articulate presentation, I'd give it clearly to Alan Keyes.
	And I wonder how many of you would agree with that.
	The roof has caved in on Pat Buchanan, the political roof.
	One of Pat Buchanan's national co-chairmen is down, gone, out.
	He's none other than Larry Pratt, who is the executive chairman of the Gun Owners of America.
	I've had Larry Pratt on the show in the past.
	Today, Buchanan was put in a totally defensive position.
	As the news broke that Larry Pratt apparently in 1992 attended a Colorado meeting with white supremacist leaders.
	White supremacist leaders, Ku Klux Klan, Aryan Nations, those kind of people were said to be present at the meeting.
	Now, Larry Pratt hitting back and said, I had no idea That they were there.
	You know, I go to these kinds of meetings.
	And, of course, you can imagine that Larry Pratt is very much a pro-gun activist, and these kind of people would show up, and they did at the meeting.
	He said he didn't know they were there.
	Nevertheless, Bob Dole hit Pratt, said Pratt is a right-wing extremist.
	Pratt is out.
	And I'm going to tell you right now, And this is what I have been telling you, whether you think what occurred today is fair or unfair, it is only the beginning.
	And the media is going to come after Pat Buchanan and anybody connected with him like a rabid dog.
	They really are.
	Here, to give you some idea, is a fax I got from Peggy down in San Antonio.
	Regarding the Pat and Larry Show today, Pat Buchanan should count his lucky stars that no members of the Dole entourage listens to as much anarchist radio as I do.
	Peggy specializes in listening to anarchist radio.
	She monitors them.
	Or else Pat would be trying to explain why he, according to Supreme Commander of the Christian Militia, Dean Compton, gave his blessings to the 250,000-man armed march to the southern border of the U.S.
	To, quote, discourage, end quote, aliens from coming across.
	Building a cousin to the hated Berlin Wall, as Buchanan promises, is bad enough.
	Firing on our southern neighbors is nuts.
	Compton went on umpteen talk shows swearing that he had a go-ahead and Godspeed from the feisty Pat.
	Pat has said on a C-SPAN panel of pundents not long ago, when asked what he thought about JFK promising a Protestant audience in Houston, That he'd be president first, before following the Pope.
	He kind of didn't miss beats, said JFK was wrong, and that he, Pat, would never put his church second, even to America.
	Said that what was good for Rome was good for the USA.
	So, I have no way of knowing Ms.
	Pratt's background, and whether it's any deeper than was suggested by the NBC report that I saw yesterday, which talked only of people being in the audience When he was at the podium.
	That's all.
	That's all they talked about, people being in the audience.
	Alright, maybe it goes deeper than that, and I don't know about it.
	But, I'm adding it up from a different perspective.
	Maybe Mr. Pratt is utterly innocent of any involvement that goes beyond being at a certain podium.
	Maybe there is a deeper involvement.
	I frankly have no way of knowing.
	I'm only looking at the way this got handled by the Buchanan campaign, and I think it's wrong.
	Either Pratt, there was something wrong with Pratt, in which case Buchanan should have said, he's out.
	He's out, he's gone.
	But Buchanan said it's lies, lies, lies.
	And I'm looking at this now from Pratt's perspective, whether Pratt wanted to go or not, it's always as well, tender my resignation, or A temporary leave of absence while I get this straightened out or whatever.
	Fact is, he's gone, and Pat accepted that.
	Now, if Pat really believes that there is no such thing as the press has either cooked up or found out, whichever the case is, I tell you I don't know.
	Pat should have been the man of his word, not let Pat go, Said no, it's going to look as though if I let you go on this leave of absence or whatever it is, it's going to look to all the world like there is something wrong, and there's nothing wrong, and you're saying right here.
	That's what I would have expected out of the Pat Buchanan I know.
	That's the point I'm trying to make with you.
	Pat's always been a straight arrow, a straight ahead guy.
	Look at his defense of Jim Yoniok.
	In the face of charges of anti-semitic behavior, And statements and all the rest of it.
	He defended Demyanuk from hell and high water.
	During very rough times.
	Remember that?
	And he was accused of being anti-semitic.
	And he stood his ground.
	And I frequently said, look, Demyanuk was not convicted in a trial in Israel.
	A place where you would absolutely expect a conviction, he was not.
	And so on that issue, Pat was vindicated, and that's one where he hung tough.
	And the people who respect and stand by Buchanan for whatever else he is, being a man of his word and a man of conviction, I think can't help but view this a little bit the way I do.
	And the way I view this is, he shouldn't have let him go.
	Whether Pat wanted to go, whether Pat let him go, whatever the real... You know, you never really know, because it's always...
	Uh, a tendered resignation, whether it was actually resignation or not, you never really know unless you were there, privy to the private conversation.
	But the fact of the matter is, Pratt's gone.
	Boom!
	Like that.
	And that really smacks of expediency to me.
	And it doesn't smack of the Pat Buchanan that I thought I knew.
	So, Pat Buchanan had better get ready because the weight of the oppressive American press is obviously, I'm not going to say is going to descend on him, has already descended on him.
	It was expected.
	And the only question is whether or not it is going to stunt, in its very early growth, any possibility of a Buchanan presidency.
	And I'm sorry to say that I believe it probably will.
	This has been my view all along.
	Mr. Buchanan, according to the little moving lines, when he got off on the populist themes of the border and so forth, the numbers seemed to go way up.
	Otherwise, I don't think Pat did as well last night as he might have.
	He was tired, he was hoarse, and he had just had a pretty rough day with the Pratt business.
	So it's swirling out there, folks.
	It's a hornet's nest of allegations.
	And it's only just begun.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast am from february 15 1996
	so so
	so so
	you're listening to art bell somewhere in time Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 15, 1996.
	One thing I forgot to tell you, with the audiobook on sale now, you will also get an 8x10 framed, signed, beautiful photograph.
	In fact, I'm going to be signing all those tomorrow.
	That's going to take up a lot of my time tomorrow, so I'll be signing those like crazy.
	Really is a neat picture.
	I'm happy with it myself, and I'm not that happy with pictures taken of me, but I like this one.
	It's me.
	So you'll get that with the audiobook as well.
	The U.S.
	military took a laser beam for the first time in history, a laser beam, and shot down a short-range missile.
	NBC exclusively had the footage.
	It was the damnedest thing you ever saw.
	There's a missile down in New Mexico flying through the air.
	The laser apparatus moved, tracked it, and fired, and shot that thing out of the sky.
	Cost $3,000.
	Patriot missiles, which were shown after the Gulf War, not to have been nearly as effective as advertised, cost $650,000 each.
	Again, the cost of the laser shootdown?
	thousand dollars each again the cost of the laser shoot down
	three grand unbelievable
	Bye.
	Unbelievable.
	Again, don't miss tomorrow night's show on HAARP.
	Because if they're doing that with lasers now, just try to imagine what they can do when they concentrate energy, focus energy, on a specific portion of the ionosphere.
	If I keep going on with this, I'm going to get angry because I had a conversation yesterday.
	We'll talk about that tomorrow night.
	Now there is a new report, two new reports actually on AIDS.
	One from the government.
	AIDS in America is now up 9%.
	60,000 people in America died last year from AIDS.
	For the second year in a row, it is the leading cause of death for all Americans between 25 and 44.
	It is interesting.
	I see one story that says If you're a heterosexual male or female, the danger of AIDS in America is very slight.
	And then you get this stat, that for the second year in a row, it's a leading cause of death for all Americans between 25 and 44.
	Well, that's not a trivial matter, is it?
	Then I got this from Billy in San Antonio.
	Dear Art, the CBS Evening News reported today there is a new strain of AIDS, the E strain.
	It was first seen in Thailand, and according to Dr. Bob Arnott, it has arrived in the U.S.
	Oh, happy day!
	It is primarily a heterosexually transmitted strain from men to women and women to men, and is more infectious than the B virus common to the U.S.
	Some cases are based on a single sexual contact.
	Oh my!
	The first few cases have been confirmed in this country, and Toronto prostitutes, Toronto, Canada, have been confirmed with it now.
	Meanwhile, Thailand is going through one of the most rapidly progressing epidemics from this strain.
	AIDS is one of the leading causes of death for men between, as I told you, 25-44.
	do twenty five forty four actually nbc said for americans let's hear it he says for marriage or absence
	Pray for those infected.
	Billy in El Paso, Texas.
	And that also is my attitude about AIDS.
	These people are dying and any... There's a great stigma attached to having AIDS.
	And I guess my emotion with regard to those who are infected is one of compassion.
	They're dying.
	And I don't care what you have to say about your attitude about people's lifestyles or some of the rest of it.
	There are people who have AIDS because of blood transfusions, too many of them.
	There are people who have AIDS because of heterosexual contact as well.
	And even those who have it as a result of IV drug use and homosexual activity, they're still dying.
	And I guess I choose certainly not to I use the opportunity to go after the gay community, or any other community, because somebody's dying of this disease.
	They're dying.
	And I'll tell you something, bad as IV drug use may be, or bad as homosexual activity, I may personally view it, these people are dying, and we need to find a cure for this before it gets us, one way or the other.
	A nonchalant attitude about it, oh well, it won't happen to me, I think is not justified.
	And this news of the new strain is not unexpected.
	There's a lot of other news of the day, and I'll try to get to it as I can.
	Right now, let's go to the phones.
	Here are the numbers.
	First time callers.
	I know a lot of people are going to be commenting on this swirl of controversy around Buchanan.
	It was expected.
	Area code 702-727-1222.
	The wildcard lines.
	Area code 702-727-1295.
	Toll free west of the Rockies.
	It's 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies.
	card lines. Area code 702-727-1295. Toll free west of the Rockies, it's 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, it's 1-800-825-5033. This is Open Line Talk Radio.
	Anything you guys want to talk about is fair game.
	We don't pre-screen calls here, and that at times will be in a comedic way obvious that we don't.
	And at other times, it will bring on topics that you will not hear on other talk shows, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	No, you're not.
	We just missed you.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, I called from L.A.
	Yes, sir.
	I talked to you on a fast blast.
	I'm trying to go to ask if you ever had a station running in Florida, like Tampa or somewhere?
	Oh, we have a number of stations in Florida, yes.
	Tampa area?
	Yeah, we're in Tampa.
	Oh, okay.
	And then... Let me see.
	Tampa, W-E-N-D, 760 in Tampa, Florida.
	I'll pass that along.
	Okay.
	And the other thing was maybe something that might poke a hole in the alien autopsy.
	Yes.
	As meticulous as the Army has been through that, I guess it's a 20-minute segment that they have been showing on video that they've done, you never saw a still photographer in the room.
	I think in the second video that you have not yet seen, there is a still photographer.
	Wouldn't he be there for each incision?
	I have no idea, sir.
	It doesn't necessarily poke a hole in it.
	You're seeing just parts and portions of it.
	Yeah, but you never saw it for each individual movement there, like for the opening of the skull and all that.
	Each thing would be recorded that way.
	I don't think that pokes a hole in it.
	It just pokes it a little bit, you know?
	It pokes it a little bit.
	It doesn't poke a hole in it.
	I haven't heard one person yet actually prove this to be garbage.
	You know, to be garbage or a hoax or whatever.
	And what do they say?
	Why the film didn't disintegrate after all these years?
	Did they mention that?
	Or is it some sort of different type of film they've used?
	well it was uh... i forget now kodak uh... double x some or another and uh...
	we are not a photographic expert on and uh...
	uh... he he gave lots of good testimony about that goes on work for the fbi and
	so forth and so uh... he seem to think that it was perfectly
	reasonable that this film i was in the shape that it is the end
	because it was kept uh... very well it was more unlikely according to my expert
	that the film could have been kept. We know when the film was manufactured.
	Much more unlikely, the film could have been kept and exposed at a later date.
	And he had proof that the film was exposed during the time they suggest it was.
	That doesn't mean this is not a hoax, but it means that it would be a hoax that somebody held on to for all those years for what reason?
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air, hello.
	Uh, Charlie, uh, liberal in California.
	Well, I never thought I'd be grateful to the nuts and the militias, but tonight I must say I'm rather grateful to the nuts and the militias.
	Actually, I think you're expressing your gratitude to Larry Pratt of Gun Owners of America.
	I think they've done a great job for their country.
	Let me tell you one thing.
	Even though Pat Buchanan would basically destroy the Republican Party, I have to say that I consider myself to be an American first, and I think his getting the nomination would hurt the country.
	Why?
	How?
	Oh, I think he'd be way too divisive.
	Way too divisive.
	Even getting the nomination.
	Was Ronald Reagan way too divisive for you?
	Oh, comparing Ronald Reagan... No, no, no.
	I just asked, was Ronald Reagan too divisive for you?
	No.
	Ronald Reagan, I think, was... I'd put him in as being a conservative Republican.
	Maybe very conservative, but nowhere near the extreme.
	But here's the thing.
	You've got all these nuts calling in saying, well, the liberals, the liberals are going to go after Pat Buchanan.
	And actually, I just got through watching TV, and you know who the people who are going after Pat Buchanan are?
	Who?
	You look at these old news shows, you have Newt Gingrich, who basically said Pat Buchanan is no conservative, he's an extremist.
	You have Bennett, who I know is a conservative.
	If Bennett's not a conservative, there's no such thing as a conservative.
	And Bennett said his immigration policies are basically fascist.
	And that's Bennett.
	And then you've got the other Republicans, such as Alexander, saying the guy's too extreme.
	Dole's saying the guy's too extreme.
	And I think it comes down to this.
	If your enemies call you ugly, you might not be ugly.
	But when your own family starts calling you ugly, there's a chance that you're actually ugly!
	And I think these people, these Republicans, need to start looking at some reality here.
	If conservatives are saying this guy's too extreme, then there may be something to that.
	And I think the argument holds some water there.
	Alright, Charlie.
	Thank you.
	My own personal view is that There are a number of things, as you know, that I disagree with Pat Buchanan on.
	The one particular area that I agree with him is on immigration.
	Whether it takes a wall, electronics, human beings, border guards like the one who was just on the air.
	Charlie, you've got to recall, works for the Border Patrol.
	You've got to wonder, when Charlie's out on patrol, And sees the running hordes that are coming into this country, by the millions, how his attitude transfers into the enforcement of his sworn duty.
	And you've got to wonder whether it does.
	Just a little side note there for you to think about.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air, hello.
	Oh, yeah, good morning Art.
	Yeah, thanks for the Fluid Mac bumper.
	Oh yes!
	That's a beautiful thought.
	It certainly is.
	The thing you were saying earlier about AIDS, I think as far as your compassion and heart to people that are sick, I think you're really on the right track.
	But I wonder if you're aware that in the scientific community, there's really no consensus about even what causes AIDS.
	This whole thing about the HIV virus being the cause of AIDS.
	And so, therefore, we're worried about every little variation.
	Well, it is certainly... Let's pause for a second.
	It is very... It is in question.
	There is controversy.
	I've had guests on the air here say HIV could no more cause AIDS than man and moon.
	There's not enough of it and all the rest of it.
	Dr. Duesberg, I add on.
	But the fact of the matter is that when all is said and done, the people who die and contract the opportunistic diseases that finally do them in, Have the HIV virus present?
	Not all of them.
	There are some people that have died of AIDS-like things, but the massive numbers of people dying, 60,000 last year, the great high majority of them had the HIV virus present.
	But many people that have the virus never get sick.
	My attitude, there are some that have not.
	My attitude is that drugs As Duisburg has suggested, other lifestyle things, if you have this virus, probably come and get you much easier.
	In other words, if your immune system is already depressed, and you do things that depress your immune system even further, then you're probably going to die a lot faster.
	Now, whereas if you suddenly resurrect everything, and stop the drugs, and begin a good lifestyle, and eat properly, and get nutrition, and exercise, blah blah blah blah, then you can forestall the slow slide inevitable of the immune system.
	Make sense?
	I think it very well could be a variety of factors, but I want to keep people from being too fearful about having normal relationships and a normal sex life, because at least so far, I don't know about this type E, but when you look at the statistical evidence, people don't get AIDS from casual sex.
	And I think you do a lot better by being, as you said, not doing drugs, staying away from mainstream medicine.
	I think a lot of times people are getting sick not from AIDS, but from the AIDS drugs, like AZT and so on.
	Alright, well that's also, thank you, Dr. Duesberg's argument.
	And I buy into that one too.
	I'm not a big fan of AZT.
	AZT, according to Dr. Duesberg, is as much killer as AIDS.
	And he feels that AZT, when taken by somebody with a weakened immune system, shows a quick spike in T-cell count, and then a very, very quick downturn, and that AZT itself murders the immune system.
	Very controversial position, but it may well be the case.
	The immune system is something that tries to muster its defenses against whatever assault is underway.
	And so AZT itself, according to the doctor, assaults the immune system, producing a temporary spike, or fight, which is then quickly overcome by both AZT and whatever effect other may be of AIDS.
	Dr. Duesberg probably wouldn't even include that.
	And the patient is killed.
	Now, I have no way of knowing if that is true.
	It's a great debate in the scientific community.
	However, I think you're well to make note of this apparent new strain of AIDS that is predominantly heterosexual.
	AIDS continues to change, constantly.
	And we'd better keep after it, or one of these changes is going to be a change we're not going to like one bit.
	That's my attitude about it.
	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	Let me ask you this.
	What is going on to necessitate this so quickly?
	There seems to be a deadline in their brains and they need to get this done.
	They know their whole new world order is inches from going up in flames.
	So they're afraid of the awakening and they know that their collapse is about to take place because we've been asleep at the switch and we've let incredibly corrupt interests take control of our society.
	Now we take you back to the night of February 15th, 1996, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Alright, back to the lines, and here we go.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hey, Art.
	This is John out in Seattle.
	Hello, John.
	Um, I just wanted to... I know that, uh...
	Our weather out here in the Northwest has been in the news lately, but I know lately this year we've had extremely rare weather.
	I know it's been that way all across the country, not only around the world, but what I've just seen lately is we had a pretty mild winter up until we had a snowstorm, which dropped down into, you know, about 15 degrees.
	Then after that, it went up.
	Almost like a week later, we got all the rain.
	And the floods and stuff, and now we're into like 60 degree weather.
	And last night, I tried to get in to talk to you last night, but we had reports on the radio saying that we have a burn ban in effect now.
	Well, it's been that way all over the country, as you know.
	Up, down, in, out, violent, horrible cold and snow, then ridiculously warm temperatures for the middle of the winter.
	And I know where you're obviously going.
	You're playing the harp on this one.
	Yeah, you got that right.
	I was going to say, hey, start your guest tomorrow night and say, hey, what's going on?
	Well, you can depend on it.
	As I said, I spent 30 minutes, imagine, 30 minutes with the program manager of harp on the phone.
	And I hit him with that and a lot more.
	And I was not pleased with the responses I got.
	And that's why Nick Begich, Dr. Begich, is going to be here tomorrow night.
	So it's coming.
	So you're going to be talking to him about your conversation and the things that he said?
	Yes.
	Great.
	And then I'll let, of course, Dr. Begich go ahead and expand, for those who haven't heard it, a lot of people out there, on what HAARP is.
	Great.
	Well, Art, I sure enjoy your show, and thanks for taking my call.
	Thanks for making it, sir.
	We will do that tomorrow night.
	I am compelled to do that.
	After my conversation, and inevitably it's trying to lead me into, and I don't want to do that tonight.
	It'll make it the center of conversation for tonight, so we'll just hold that one for tomorrow, and I will relate to you then the details of the conversation I had with the program manager of HAARP.
	That was a very, from my point of view, a very disturbing conversation.
	You're listening to Arc Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 15, 1996.
	This is a teaser for the new Coast to Coast AM game.
	A road.
	at all.
	I'm going to play a little bit of that.
	Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight's program originally aired February 15th, 1996.
	Uh, alert for tomorrow night.
	I spent 30 minutes, uh, on the telephone with the program manager for HAARP.
	The guy who's running HAARP.
	In Boston.
	Yesterday.
	It was, uh, not, in my opinion, a satisfactory conversation.
	I gave him the opportunity to come on this program.
	It was declined because his superiors, he said, wouldn't allow him to.
	With that much known, I put in a call to Dr. Nick Begich.
	He will be on the program tomorrow night, at the beginning, first hour.
	You don't want to miss him.
	I'll just leave that one right there.
	Second item is, and I'll do this very quickly, my book, The Art of Talk, is now on audio tape.
	And we've got a big, big bargain going on for you right now.
	The L.A.
	Times came up here and took a whole bunch of photographs and they ran one on the front page of the calendar section of the L.A.
	Times.
	And we liked it so much that Paper Chase Press acquired it and had copies made, not newspaper-type copies, but full, glossy, 8x10s of the same image that was on the front page of the calendar section of the L.A.
	Times.
	And if you order a copy of my book, The Art of Talk, as of tonight, or the audio copy of my book, which as of tonight is out, you get an autographed version of that photograph, which can be framed.
	I think you're going to enjoy it.
	I hope you will.
	I'm going to be signing my little life away beginning in the morning for you.
	So that's the deal.
	Any copy of my book ordered during this special edition offer, whether it's the audio book or the book book, gets a personally autographed 8x10.
	The exact same one that was in the LA Times.
	I am taking a break.
	If you're trying to dial in on Videon, I have the system off tonight.
	We're awaiting some new software.
	And, uh, when I hear about that, uh, you'll hear more about it, so I'll let you know.
	If you're trying to dial in, Vivian, hold up.
	The big news, the debates, I thought clearly Alan Keyes, Dr. Keyes, was the winner.
	And I thought many other things, of many of the other candidates, uh, which I articulated last hour, and if you want to comment on the debates, you're absolutely welcome to.
	Pat Buchanan, in a world of hurt, over Allegations made about Larry Pratt, who runs Gun Owners of America, as Executive Director of Gun Owners of America.
	Somebody got hold of some information that Larry Pratt was at a meeting in Colorado in 92 with people in the audience who were Aryan types and Ku Klux Klan-ers and that sort of thing.
	And Larry Pratt had been on Pat Buchanan's, it was very high in Pat Buchanan's Our campaign, he is not now.
	He's gone.
	As of tonight, he's history.
	Actually, yesterday now.
	And so Pat was on the defensive all day long.
	CNN ran a special edition.
	I saw both live.
	I saw the live debate, then the one where they had this little line that would go across with people reacting to what the candidates were saying.
	I wonder what you thought of that.
	And I wonder if you agree with me that the walk-away winner of that debate was Peace.
	Absolutely articulate, straight down the line, a social conservative, straight down the line talking about the present state of our society, and a lot of very, very, very, very interesting proper explanations of what's going on and what's wrong.
	I just thought Keyes was brilliant.
	I've interviewed him on this program, but he was brilliant.
	He was relaxed.
	He, by the way, Alexander certainly wasn't.
	Lamar Alexander, who I thought was a pretty cool potato, wasn't cool last night.
	He was nervous.
	He was bobbing up and down.
	Pat Buchanan was hoarse.
	Bob Dole was dour.
	Steve Forbes was interesting and was received fairly well.
	I thought Forbes did himself some good.
	Buchanan probably drew a straight line or lost a little bit as a result of the debate, I thought.
	Bob Dole probably lost as a result of the debate, I thought.
	It's going to mix things up in a very interesting way in New Hampshire.
	So what was your take on it?
	Did you see it?
	Do you feel in some way different than my take on it?
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Yeah, Art.
	This is Steve from San Diego.
	Hi, Steve.
	I would like to talk about the whole number system, how it somehow or another ties into this whole world that we're in.
	It's a coincidence that our whole number and the way that we work has some way or another, it's like a bunch of circles, and they're all tied into everything around us.
	I don't know if you feel... No, I don't.
	Okay.
	And I have no idea what you're talking about.
	Circles and numbers.
	Circles and numbers.
	Well, you and I are two people totally different.
	Now, somewhere down the line, we are, I guess you could say, related.
	Everybody in this whole world is Related in some way, shape, or form.
	Well, we share humanity.
	Yes, and we also share the same makeup.
	I have no idea what you're talking about, sir.
	None.
	None.
	I'm sorry about that.
	I am, too.
	I'd like to understand what it is you're trying to say.
	Circles and numbers and relationships.
	You're not being very clear.
	Okay, I'm sorry.
	Maybe I can help you out.
	The way that numbers fit into the world that we are living today play a major role.
	You said that?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Is this sort of a Louis Farrakhan speech?
	You know, 19 or whatever it was?
	No.
	No?
	No.
	Well then, what do you mean?
	You're going to have to give it to me quickly and succinctly.
	Okay, like the Mayan calendar, for instance.
	What about it?
	Numbers play a big role in that, correct?
	Numbers play a big role in anybody's calendar, sir.
	Okay.
	Or time.
	It's 1, 14, and 25 seconds.
	But it all relates to each other, correct?
	No.
	No.
	Okay, maybe I'm misunderstanding it then.
	Alright, thanks very much for the call.
	Maybe you're just not expressing it properly.
	I don't know, but I'm unable to understand what you mean.
	There are all kinds of numbers that are used to measure things like time or dates.
	Or times that we revolve around the sun.
	But I don't see it all connected with some unexplainable circles that touch each other.
	Which is what you were trying to talk about.
	It was just a fog to me, I'm sorry.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	This is Peter.
	I can barely hear you, Peter.
	Can you hear me?
	Oh, you're gonna have to yell into your phone, sure.
	Okay, I'm yelling.
	Alright, good.
	Art, I listened to your show on Dreamland.
	With Stan Johnson.
	Yes.
	And I listened to your guest tonight.
	Yes.
	Concerning Bigfoot.
	Yes.
	And I found some interesting correlations with a group of books that I've been reading.
	It's a four-part collection of channeled work.
	Well, that makes me suspicious of it right away.
	If there's one area of all this that I think smells, to me it's this whole channeling baloney.
	And I'm sorry, but I do.
	I think it's baloney.
	And my own sister used to channel, and I still think it's baloney.
	Well, welcome to your opinion on that.
	But there is this interesting correlation in that series of books.
	Alright, well look, I appreciate your call, but I'm going to say this to everybody.
	If there's any place where I think there's reason to be suspicious of information obtained through a process they're calling channeling, it is channeling.
	It's these people who will tell you, go into a trance and tell you that in a past life you were related to some great Roman warrior or something or another and Here's information for the world from that great Roman warrior who now speaks through me, Swami Bell.
	No, I don't... I'm extremely suspicious of that.
	It doesn't mean that there might not be something too channeling, but I think that for me it means there's so much phony baloney going on in the area that nobody could properly discern if there was something real.
	Because there's too much baloney in the middle of it all.
	So I kind of tend to dismiss that, pending further and better evidence.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Good morning, Art.
	Rick Meister Gerhardt, conservative in California.
	Okay.
	I never thought I'd... Oh, by the way, Charlie is in the Customs.
	He's not with the... The U.S.
	Customs.
	All right.
	Well, they also, though, would be on the lookout for anybody entering illegally with substances or their own bodies.
	Knowing Charlie, he's probably there handing them the address to the nearest welfare office.
	Maybe.
	He said something quite amusing, by the way, which is that William Bennett is a conservative.
	I believe him to be.
	Listen, William Bennett was opposed to the very reasonable stipulations of California's Proposition 187.
	I'm aware of that.
	Now, anybody who is opposed to 187 is not only not a conservative, but doesn't even deserve to call themselves a Republican.
	Well, again, though, this is measured by Rick Meister Gerhardt.
	That's right.
	And they are, in fact, probably stealth Democrats, who are probably closer to Bob Dole and Bill Clinton than they are to A real conservative.
	But you know, what the hell does Charlie tell anyway?
	Who is, in Rittmeister's opinion, a real conservative?
	Why, Pat Buchanan.
	Well, look, by a lot of measurements, Rittmeister, Pat Buchanan is a somewhat socialist in his view.
	And not typical of mainline conservatives at all.
	Particularly with his ideas on trade.
	And Pat Buchanan is a self-styled, he calls it, America-firster.
	It would translate to something that I wouldn't agree with, and that is putting up barriers to trade without regard, without having as the center of the reason for these, fair trade, but just to build the fortress America.
	In other words, to force jobs back into America, to force these lower-paying jobs.
	It's like fighting Mother Nature.
	Things are going to be built cheaply in Mexico, and China, and Central and South America as they develop.
	The little gidgets and gadgets that are made are going to be made with that cheap manual labor, whether we take part in it or not.
	That's my argument against what he wants to do.
	This is going to happen whether we like it or not.
	Oh, yes!
	We can, in effect, close the border.
	We can do that.
	And it will force some lower-paying, lower-wage jobs back into the country.
	It's not going to bring back the $10 or $12 an hour jobs.
	It's not going to do that.
	But it will force these jobs that will then, of necessity, have to be made here.
	It'll erect some factories.
	That'll start making these things, but it'll all be false, because the rest of the world will be making these things at a much cheaper price, and they will trade among themselves, and America will then be by itself, and for a short time, we'll have a rise in the old factory kind of jobs we used to have.
	But, uh, quickly, the world will pass us by.
	It is my area of disagreement with Pat that an abortion, and, um, So that's the way I feel about that, and I very much otherwise like Pat for a lot of his qualities.
	He's outspoken.
	He says exactly what he feels.
	I admire that in anybody.
	You know I do.
	Alan Keyes.
	God, he did a hell of a job last night.
	Just a hell of a job last night.
	I think Alan Keyes was a clear winner of that debate, and I sure would like to know how the rest of you feel.
	What an articulate man.
	And seeing and hearing him again reminded me of the interview I did with him.
	I had to drag that thing out and replay it.
	It was very good.
	As was his performance last night.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	How you doing, Art?
	Okay.
	This is Duke.
	I'm a Hoosier conservative.
	Alright.
	And I want to get on Charlie's case a little bit, too, if I could.
	Oh, I'm always open to that.
	First thing I want to say is that, boy, you can really tell that Pat has him scared.
	He's got all the liberals scared.
	I was actually informed probably about a week ago that this news was going to come out this week on a local talk show by one of our representatives down there in Washington.
	Look, I'm telling you, it's only the beginning.
	Everybody knew it.
	Pat has a long paper or more likely audio clip trail behind him and they're going to dredge it all up and beat him to death.
	The thing to remember though is that Pat also knew it was going to come and I think that This is what I have to say about it.
	I think it's great that it's coming out now, and I only pray and hope that Pat can still win the nomination with all this out, because if he does, well, that's only going to hurt the White House, because the liberal Trump card has already been laid.
	Yeah, did you see the debate?
	I watched just a little bit of it.
	Did you see that?
	He didn't look good, but there were reports that he's been sick ever since Iowa.
	He's had a cold since the end of Iowa.
	Yeah, I'm getting one right now myself.
	I'm sorry about that.
	And his voice was hoarse, and he had a bad day, and all of that.
	But he had a rough night.
	And a lot of people in New Hampshire, after all, what is today?
	Friday morning, right?
	Right.
	The New Hampshire primary is Tuesday.
	So there's not a lot of time to correct Of building negative.
	I have a hard time believing that having won 37% last time, that he's not going to be able to come pretty close to those numbers again this time.
	We'll see.
	But one more final word in there for Charlie.
	Pat Buchanan may be a radical, but I think our founding fathers were considered radicals in their day, too.
	All right, sir.
	Thank you very much.
	So was Goldwater.
	And they managed to slaughter Goldwater God, I love that man, and I still do.
	And they destroyed Goldwater with a lot less ammunition in the belt than they have to use on Pat Buchanan.
	and that's just something you ought to keep in mind.
	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	I think now, as we look back, we can probably say with pretty good certainty that some people in government might have been aware of what was going on and they turned their cheek the other way just to let it happen.
	I also believe that some bigger groups got involved with Al-Qaeda to do what they did on that horrible day.
	This wasn't just a small group of people who came in and did their thing.
	There was a much bigger picture there.
	And if you see the events that have unfolded since this tragedy occurred, how we've lost rights, how we used it to go into Afghanistan and Iraq, and how it has really not stopped.
	Because it's going to continue.
	We're going to have more and more episodes, and more and more involvement in other countries.
	And just mark my word, this planet is going through an incredible change.
	And thank God we've got you here to talk with us about it.
	Now we take you back to the night of February 15th, 1996, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Oh, hi Art.
	I've got a couple things.
	First of all, there's a good New American special immigration issue February 19th about the immigration of the Mexicans and the Chinese and many of them are communists.
	That's interesting.
	It's a good issue.
	Second, did you hear that the train wreck in Minnesota is now suspected of being sabotaged?
	Did you hear that?
	Oh my God, no I didn't.
	Where did you hear that?
	Excuse me ma'am, where did you hear that?
	I heard it on local St.
	Louis, uh, the local St.
	Louis radio.
	I don't know whose broadcast it was.
	I mean, ABC or NBC or... You heard it on one of the network news shows?
	Yeah, it was part of the network.
	And also, I don't know if you know, but March 11th is the anti-terrorist bill.
	It's going to be up for that week to be passed.
	So now we've got this train wreck.
	We've got two more weeks, you know?
	Alright, I appreciate your call and I want some confirmation of that.
	That's a pretty serious allegation.
	It better not be.
	God help us in this country if it's come to this.
	I'm going to need some more input.
	I should have heard that from somebody else.
	If anybody else out there has input on that, I'd appreciate it.
	Have we really entered a day and age where Americans on a regular basis are going to be killing, blowing up, and maiming other Americans?
	Huh?
	Is that what it's come to in America?
	It's just like the bombing in Oklahoma City.
	I'll tell you something.
	If it really does come to that, this nation doesn't have long to go.
	It's a mark of the near end.
	You can put your money down on that one.
	If we've decided in America, whether it's the militias or any of these other nutball groups that are out there, If we have collectively decided the only way to change things is with force and bullets and bombs, then the end, folks, is near.
	Not for mankind, not the world, but this nation.
	So I hope that one's not true.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 15, 1996.
	Thank you for watching.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 15, 1996.
	Good morning, everybody.
	I, too, am coming down with a whopper of a cold.
	So is my wife.
	And I want to thank that little disease-carrying 14-year-old son of mine for delivering it here on schedule.
	Ridiculous.
	Kids, they get sick.
	They get really sick.
	They pass on whatever it is they've got, and then they quickly get well while the adults come to a near-death experience.
	So, there's nothing like being a talk host, having five hours on the air every night, and trying to do it with a cold.
	But I'll tell you what, come hell or high water, sneezing, coughing, and hacking, I'll be here tomorrow night.
	Even with the temperature, I'll be here tomorrow night.
	Nick Vegich, don't you miss it?
	It's all about heart for a very good reason.
	Dear Art, I also watched the repeat of the debate, agree with your assessment of the best showing by Keys, but did you happen to notice how the women's line almost always moved faster than the men's?
	I hate to sound sexist, but it appeared to me that women are a little more easily swayed than men.
	Ooh, that is sexist.
	The biggest difference between men and women seemed to be the speed and the amount of movement on some subjects.
	The women's line was nearly off the scale on at least three occasions, while the men's line only went that far once.
	Well, that is sexist, sir.
	Um, a woman might come forth and say, maybe women are just a little more perceptive and sensitive.
	That brings to mind the commercial with the Tennis ball hit the guy in the noggin.
	Remember that?
	Men have had such a rough go of it lately, haven't they?
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Good morning, Art.
	Tim in Denver.
	Hi, Tim.
	Yeah, I also watched the CNN debate or the CNN coverage.
	I thought that was an ingenious device they had come up with and a great idea with the audience.
	I've been calling for it for I don't know how long.
	Something just like that.
	Lo and behold, after all these years, there I was on CNN last night.
	Did you, as you watched it, and this is the interesting question, did you generally find yourself in agreement with it as it went along?
	If you'd had the little knob in your hand, would you have been turning it pretty much like the people were?
	Uh, yeah, about 90% of the time I would say I was in agreement.
	Same here.
	Same here.
	Uh, I thought it may be, uh, what do you think about this for an, uh, A future debate, if they expounded on it just a bit, to where when, you know the center line that they showed, they had the male and female in the center line, kind of in the middle, and it would stay above a lot of times, and sometimes it would dip below?
	Yeah.
	Maybe if it dipped below, it kind of, if they wired up the debaters, so it kind of delivered a little shock, just enough to where it got to a point where they let out a yelp, and then At the end of the debate, you would be able to tell who won by the person that yelped the least.
	Huh.
	Well, I mean, it sounds a little strange, I know, and it would never work.
	You know, I need something like it for radio.
	I need something like that for radio.
	I don't know what it would be, but I need something like it.
	As far as the footage in New Mexico of the little laser shot that hit the missile?
	Yeah.
	I thought it was interesting that it did not blow it up.
	Made it tumble.
	Just took it out.
	See, there's my radio version of what CNN had.
	Did you hear that?
	Yeah, I sure did.
	You know, maybe we could do something like that.
	We'd have to work on it.
	I just thought I'd bring that over here and try that.
	Anyway... And Larry Pratt on Nightline?
	Yes.
	I didn't see him.
	I don't see Nightline because I'm already on the air here.
	Right, exactly.
	Here in Denver, we caught it.
	It comes on at 10.30 in the evening.
	Yeah, I know.
	You guys in mountain states are different.
	Right.
	And he did defend himself quite well, I thought.
	However, it seemed to be a little too little too late.
	Well, look, first of all, it is not surprising that Larry Pratt, who heads up An organization that concentrates on nothing but Second Amendment protections, who's probably, you know, he's been on this show speaking, he's been on a million other radio shows, he goes to all kinds of conventions and gun shows and things like that and speaks to people about the Second Amendment.
	To be able to tie him into Aryan Nations, tie him into the Ku Klux Klan, by saying they were in the audience, That's a little much for me.
	I mean, who the hell... There's Aryan Nation people listening to me right now.
	Of course.
	All over Idaho, I've heard.
	And people, no doubt, in the Ku Klux Klan.
	Well, does that mean I sympathize with them because they're in my audience?
	Exactly.
	And he also made the point that the government... I mean, the Constitution provides for militias in the events of the nation needing it.
	Well, it does.
	But the point, the real point, thank you, is whether Or not, the fact that people with these persuasions are connected to him, simply because they were in the audience when he spoke somewhere, is absolutely ludicrous!
	Now, if they had more than that, if they had Mr. Pratt in cahoots with these people, if they had Mr. Pratt specifically addressing the Aryan nations, or going out of his way to court the Aryan nations, Or accepting courtship by the Aryan Nations or the Ku Klux Klan.
	Then you've got something else.
	I even wonder, frankly, whether Pat did the right thing by cutting Pratt loose like that.
	You know?
	Have any of you thought about that?
	Now maybe there's something that I haven't heard.
	But the only thing I heard on NBC, and they, you know, it was the lead item on NBC, the Get Pat item, and I didn't hear them say anything other than there were some people from these organizations in an address he gave in 1992.
	So what the hell does that mean?
	Not much to me, unless they've got something deeper than that, And I'm a little concerned that Pat just cut Pratt loose like that on, what shall we call it, the appearance of impropriety.
	Huh?
	Well, I'll tell you something.
	There's an awful lot of stuff that they can use against Buchanan.
	He has supplied people with years and years of statements and quotes that are going to be very, very controversial.
	And they're going to beat him to death with this stuff.
	But I was saying that a long time ago, and I think we all know it and do it now.
	Realize that it is true.
	Can he make it through to the nomination and then the presidency with this kind of baggage and weight?
	And the press doing what it's doing?
	It's not very likely, I'm going to tell you honestly.
	It's my honest judgment.
	That's a good man.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Yes, my name is Tony and I'm calling from Albuquerque.
	Hi Tony, glad to have you.
	K.O.B.
	Yeah, thank you.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	You always want to have your radio close by.
	Okay, I'm back.
	Alright, good.
	I'm calling in regards to a man that had said that pit bulls weren't a recognized breed.
	That's right.
	They are recognized.
	They're recognized by the UKC, the United Kennel Club.
	And also, American Staffordshire Terriers are similar to pit bulls, but A true pitbull man would say they're nothing alike.
	They can look exactly alike, but technically they have different lines.
	They can look identical.
	Well, maybe that's not good.
	I mean, the talk, of course, is of banning pitbulls, right?
	Yeah, well, there's... And if there is not an official pitbull breed, they can't... It's like trying to put your hand on Quicksilver.
	How can you ban something that is not an official breed?
	Maybe you'd be better off if they weren't.
	That's true also.
	Well, there's a little town, uh, it's a mountain town up in the, in the crest over in the Sandia Mountains that they actually, they have banned pit bulls.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	They will kill them on site if you're.
	What?
	They will shoot them on site.
	If a police officer were to pull you over and you have a pit bull.
	They'd shoot it?
	Yeah, they'd shoot it.
	That's what I hear.
	I don't know if that's happening.
	That's a little hard to believe.
	Yeah.
	It's, it's going on though.
	And in England right now, pit bulls are being eradicated from England under the Dangerous Dog Act.
	Pit bulls and Rottweilers, actually.
	Do you hold with the view, and we've discussed this over the last couple of nights, do you hold with the view that there are no mean dogs born?
	It's possible for a mean dog to be born due to the fact of too much inbreeding.
	Sure it is, sir.
	Actually, I raised pit bulls myself.
	I see.
	I'm not a fighting man that breeds them to fight each other, although they were bred for that in England about 150 years ago.
	Alright, well listen, I appreciate your call, and I happen to believe there are mean dogs, just like there are mean people.
	Dog mean people.
	I know some of them.
	I mean just mean-natured, I don't think it's a product of, uh, environment.
	I think they're born mean.
	They're just mean people.
	Like, there's good-looking people and bad-looking people.
	People ugly as sin.
	Shannon Darity.
	But there's people of all cuts, and, uh, that means mentally as well, and so I think there's some people just born, uh, junkyard dog mean.
	So there's mean dogs.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air high.
	Hi Art, this is Alan in St.
	Louis.
	Alan, I can barely hear you.
	You're going to have to get into that phone and shout at us.
	I'm sorry.
	That's all right.
	How are you doing tonight?
	I'm fine.
	Um, I have to agree with you.
	I haven't been a big Alan Keyes fan up until tonight, but I watched the late broadcast on CNN.
	Yes, sir.
	And yeah, he just blew me away.
	He was brilliant.
	He was.
	Absolutely brilliant.
	Relax.
	The rest of them were neither nervous Yeah, well, this call came about today and I think it just rattled him.
	He wasn't expecting it.
	I don't find it to be a big deal.
	I'm kind of angry about it.
	covered the you know the new answer primaries tuesday he hurt himself
	you know what they've all been talking about today and i think it just rattled
	him uh... he wasn't expecting it i don't find it to be
	a big deal i'm kind of angry about it
	yeah i i i mean even a little angry at the cannon reacting immediately in dumping pratt like a hot potato
	Right.
	If there is no more to it than I understand so far, this whole thing is asinine, and I'm not particularly proud of Pratt for dumping Pratt like this.
	No, it's a non-issue to me.
	As far as the information we've been given so far, it's not an issue.
	Okay, if that's true, and Buchanan said something like that.
	He said it's a bunch of lies.
	But he's still cut Pratt loose.
	Right.
	That's political expediency in the place I come from.
	Yeah, well, it's just, you know, catering to the masses.
	People are going to react to it.
	So he's catering to the votes he wants to get.
	That means he's playing the game.
	I mean, to me, Buchanan was always a man of Rock solid principle.
	Well, if you're a man of rock solid principle, and you come out and say it's a bunch of lies, and then you cut the guy loose, swinging in the breeze, without so much as a, how do you do, then you're not the principled person I thought you were.
	No, but still, he sees it within his sights now.
	He's got the momentum going.
	He doesn't want to lose it by... Well, yeah, okay, well then, what does that say?
	Look, I'm not... I don't mean to be rappin' on Pat, but if he'll do that for this, then what will he do when he gets there at the real center of power to keep it?
	Well, this is... that's true, but he... you gotta play the game to some degree, or...
	You're not going to win.
	Yeah, but I think the man was rising in the polls precisely because he didn't play the game.
	Or at least I didn't think he did.
	Well, yeah.
	It may be.
	I'm not real sure.
	I like Buchanan.
	I'm still going to stay behind him.
	Although I do agree with you.
	Clearly there is no question he's won that.
	He was talking to me.
	Yeah.
	He was communicating.
	Really, thank you very much.
	There was nobody else up there that did that.
	Or at least to the degree that even near the degree Keyes did.
	I thought it was a runaway myself.
	Keyes was good.
	Really good.
	And he's not a player in this election.
	At least I don't think he is.
	Unless New Hampshire folks reacted the way I did.
	And there's a miracle in the New Hampshire primary.
	I bet he goes up.
	I'll bet she goes up.
	What I think Keyes is, is a player in the next election.
	Maybe not this one.
	Maybe Keyes is a vice presidential player.
	There are many possibilities, but I'll tell you his showing last night is not going to go unnoticed and unremembered.
	Most of what Dr. Keys does is remembered well and believe me, last night is no exception.
	Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM has a new name, Coast
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	Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
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	And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests.
	If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
	Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up today.
	Now we take you back to the night of February 15th, 1996, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Yeah, hi.
	This is Mark in California.
	Hello, Mark.
	Listen, I just got to try to straighten something out here.
	I'm hearing you go on and on about Pat dumping Larry Pratt.
	You mean he didn't?
	No, Larry Pratt came to Buchanan when this broke, and he requested a leave of absence from his position in the campaign.
	Yeah, well, however these things happen, sir, the fact is, it's like, people are always, when there's a parting of the ways, in high business positions or high government positions, Arrangements are always made.
	But the fact is, Pat's gone, Pat accepted it, and I've got a problem with that, frankly, unless there's more to it than I know.
	Well, some of the stuff that they put on Nightline tonight, and I was very disappointed in Ted Koppel, because he seemed to be not so timid when he did programs on Waco and Ruby Ridge, but He really went after Larry Pratt tonight with a vengeance.
	He was very aggressive.
	Well, alright.
	Was the substance of the program, in the end, did it show that Pratt had interest connections with Aryan Nations or Ku Klux Klan or whoever?
	Okay, not that he was actually, not that he was forwardly and openly endorsing their position, but let me tell you something.
	They showed this guy at some of these conventions and different things, and when you go to these, especially when you're in like the spike training and some of these things that are going on around here, these seminars, you get to know who's there.
	Now, it's not who's in the audience that they were saying, it's who was sponsoring the event and who else was on the platform in the same evening or afternoon that he was there.
	I don't think that that has anything to do with Pat Buchanan.
	I don't either.
	I don't even think that necessarily casts a negative shadow on Mr. Pratt.
	No, I don't either.
	So we understand and accept that this is something that the press is doing.
	However, I also have to say, just because I'm in public life publicly myself, in politics, you pay a consequence when you do decide I'm sure Larry Pratt, I'm a member of his organization and I think he's a fine guy and I don't think, I've never seen or heard anything racist about him or anything like that coming from him.
	Right, nor have I. But the fact is, he's out there beating his drum and there are some people who resonate with that, whether he agrees with their positions, they certainly agree with his.
	And when you move them around and among some of these groups and some of these organizations, it is just fodder for the press.
	And they're catalyzing that.
	If guilt can be established with that kind of loose association, and I consider that mighty, mighty loose, then I think Pat Buchanan has no chance, because they are going to show other All right, but let me put this plug in for Pat, though, on that note.
	The fact that Pratt came to Buchanan and asked for relief from his position only for a period of time so he could straighten this out and then come back.
	See, I heard other people say, hey, Pat should have just fired the guy out of hand right now, get rid of him, it's over with, let's move on.
	But see, this is one thing about Pat.
	I think one of the strongest things he has going for him is that he is an honest guy.
	guy and he thought tonight uh... he said it was a search he said
	it was a lot of stuff that said what was said about that was lies
	and pat really felt that that pat shouldn't have let pratt go
	Pat should have stood by what he said yesterday, he believes, and kept him right there, and fought for him.
	Well, he did say tonight, though, he said, look, he said, Larry was standing up for me back in 92, and a lot of other people wouldn't.
	And he said that I'm standing up for him right now.
	Now, you know, maybe... Well, those are words.
	Those are words, but the fact is... Maybe you think it's a fine line, but I don't.
	Yes, sir, I do.
	I do.
	I do.
	I think that Pat should have put his actions where his words were.
	And say what?
	No, Larry, you can't take the time off to go straighten this out.
	You gotta stay in here and be my co-chair.
	Yes, because to leave is to almost concede that there's a big problem.
	Even if it's just with perception, it's to concede there's a big problem, sir.
	And that's not good for Pat Buchanan.
	He should have been, uh, he should have put his actions where his words were.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast am from february 15 1996
	I'm about to lose control and I think I like it, oh yeah, I'm so excited, and I just can't
	stop, oh yeah, I'm so excited, and I just can't stop, oh yeah, I'm so excited, and I
	Tonight's program originally aired February 15th, 1996.
	Uh, listen to this, Art.
	I'm surprised and disappointed at your reaction to the train wreck.
	You of all people should know by now that if the facts are not known, the news media will make some up.
	As far as I know, there's no evidence that proves the train wreck was sabotaged.
	Only speculation.
	Well, no, uh, it's not speculation.
	Actually, sir, it's my understanding the FBI has the train wreck location sealed off, and that the FBI is crawling all over it.
	So that's more than speculation.
	You seem to be making a habit of conclusion jumping and flying off the handle, if that's what you want to do.
	Try this.
	Maybe the feds are using what is truly an accident to help justify the passing of another unneeded terrorist bill that will further erode our constitutional protections.
	Oh, God.
	As to the militia, don't paint with such a broad brush or you'll damage your credibility.
	Not everyone who joins the militia or sympathizes with their fear of the federal government is a nutball or a right-wing kook.
	When you make this mistake, you fall right in with what the left-wing dominant media wants the American public to believe.
	Bob in Phoenix.
	Bob, I never said the militia did this.
	Clean out your ears.
	You're selectively hearing, Bob, I said nutball cases.
	And anybody who would wreck a train to try to make a political point, Bob, is a nutball case.
	Anybody who would blow up a building full of relatively innocent people to redress a wrong done at Waco is a... I'm going to almost use a word I can't use on the air, is a nutball case.
	I didn't use the word malicious, Bob.
	I didn't say that.
	Clean out your ears.
	I never said a word about that.
	I said nutball cases.
	Some of them may be in malicious, Bob, since you bring it up, and some may be not.
	People who will assume the moniker of patriot, Bob.
	You know?
	That's the people I'm talking about, Bob.
	I have no idea who they are.
	Flying off the handle?
	You're damn right I'm flying off the handle.
	If anything's going to pull this country apart, it's going to be nutball cases like this.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Morning, Eric.
	This is Steve from Curie, Illinois.
	Oh, yes.
	Good morning to you.
	I have a question.
	It's off the subject a little bit.
	Last Friday, you had a guy on Gauze, Andrew Gauze.
	That's right.
	Talking about the economy.
	Yes.
	Right.
	And he was talking about the tax.
	The consumer tax?
	Yes.
	And I haven't heard any of the other politicians talking about it.
	I wondered how applicable is it?
	I don't really understand it.
	How can it be enforced?
	Well, it's enforced every time somebody buys something.
	In other words, he was talking about essentially a tax that would tax on consumption.
	Every time somebody buys something, there's an automatic tax to it.
	It would eliminate all other forms of tax, and there would be a tax only on goods and services.
	Is it a feasible plan?
	Yes, it is a feasible plan, sir.
	Of course it is.
	It would, in a very reasonable way, redistribute the wealth.
	Anyway, that's off on another subject.
	The polls are in for February 15th, 1996.
	Now listen to this.
	Best job in the debate.
	I'll be damned.
	Keys, 21%.
	Buchanan, 15.
	Dole, 13.
	Alexander, 13.
	I'll be damned.
	Keys won.
	According to CNN poll, Keys won.
	By quite a margin.
	So I guess there's some other people that read it the way I did.
	I'll be damned.
	Now, as far as an ABC poll regarding who you would like for the nominee, 29% said Dole, 26% said Buchanan, 18% Alexander, 13% Forbes, but that would have been taken prior to the debate.
	I think.
	said Buchanan, 18% Alexander, 13% Forbes, but that would have been taken prior to the
	debate.
	I think.
	CNN poll, choice for nomination, 26% Buchanan, 23% Dole, 18% Alexander, 15% Forbes.
	Forbes, I'm sorry.
	That's from Linda in Metairie, Louisiana.
	First-time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Art, it's Jeff again.
	Hi, Jeff again.
	Hey.
	Jeff, it's Jeff.
	Yes.
	If it's Jeff again, you can't call on the first-time caller line.
	You've already called.
	I had the wrong line the other time, Art.
	Well, I'm sorry, Jeff.
	You get one shot as a first-time caller, and then after that, you're not that anymore.
	Wild card line, you're on the air.
	Yeah, Art.
	Yes.
	How you doing?
	I'm fine.
	Yeah, I was calling about the... Actually, I'm not.
	I'm coming down with a terrible cold.
	Yeah, I'm a first-time caller.
	I'm kind of nervous, and I like your show a lot.
	You know, got your book and your newsletter.
	I was calling about the Republicans.
	If ever there were a vulnerable president, Clinton would be the one.
	I don't know.
	It's not that there aren't... I'm kind of nervous here.
	Well, just say what you want to say.
	Well... Uh... It just doesn't seem like anybody... It's not that there aren't good candidates, but that, uh... I don't know.
	Um... Nobody sets you on fire.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Exactly.
	It's not like they're not, uh, I mean, a lot of them have conviction keys and, uh, you know, be canon.
	But that, uh... There's no overwhelmingly strong, obvious... Exactly.
	...candidate.
	All right, well, thank you.
	You actually said that very well.
	By stumbling around and not being able to find the words.
	You really said it very well, for many of us.
	Uh, keys...
	Is a candidate of the future, or he's a vice president for somebody.
	Maybe even now.
	Maybe the best move Buchanan would make would be to immediately court Keyes.
	If you want to turn back any allegations of racism or anti-semitism or That certainly would go a long way toward doing that.
	That would be a good political move.
	I repeat that I really don't enjoy what has occurred yesterday.
	Not so much the allegations about Pratt, but the way it was handled by the Buchanan campaign.
	And I believe Pat Buchanan.
	You know, people are sending packages saying, well, they did it.
	I'm not that naive.
	The stakes are enormous.
	you know whether there's anything to the allegations or not the stakes are
	enormous and to imagine the candidate did not have a part in the decision
	to allow Pratt to leave
	for whatever stated reason is just way too naive for my taste
	now we take you back to the night of February 15th, 1996 on Art Bell
	Somewhere in Time A Day in the Life of a Candidate
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Woodinville, Washington.
	Yes, sir.
	Hey, Art.
	As I remember, people like Nixon and Reagan both campaigned on the assumption that they were going to be less one world government and stuff.
	And when they got into office, they appointed more CFRs than anybody.
	And that worries me about Buchanan.
	Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say it worries me about Buchanan, but I would say That what we saw yesterday was a concession to the reality of politics as usual.
	Another thing I wanted to ask you, exactly how long was it that you first interviewed Lyndon Thompson and the Bigelow Corporation decided to fire you raggedy ass?
	Well, about two weeks.
	Bigelow didn't fire me at all.
	The grant ran for a year for your smart geared little self the grant brand for a year that
	supported that program and that was all
	and as far as linda thompson is concerned uh... i interviewed her while she had something to do
	within was speaking about what went on at and wake up the moment she stepped
	out of line by parking down on that quickly only probably don't
	remember that do you are you ready to be as little years don't remember that do
	that Oh yeah, I remember that.
	No, no, obviously not.
	Or you wouldn't be, uh... How can that, uh... Or you wouldn't be saying the kinds of things you're saying right now, would you?
	Well, how could that, uh... Another thing I don't understand is how can Radio Free America still be outraged over mass murder?
	I mean, he acts like there's no statute of limitations on murder.
	Uh, are you aware of some?
	No.
	Oh, well then, um...
	I don't understand how he could be outraged when he turns his TV on and sees women and children being murdered in front of his eyes.
	Well, you apparently don't understand a lot of things, sir.
	Uh-huh.
	You've got your ears all boxed up, sir, and you're just not hearing things.
	You come back now anytime, here.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Art!
	That's me.
	Yeah, I'm here with a friend, and we're listening to you at night.
	This is Dave in Sacramento.
	Hi, Dave.
	My friend Rick just got ahold of you a little earlier.
	Yes?
	Yeah, he was from Sacramento, too.
	Listen, uh, uh, Talk 650 here is, uh, pulling some kind of a radio commercial.
	Alright, listen, you've got, you've got your radio on?
	No.
	No, okay, good.
	Or else I'm hearing somebody else talk or something.
	No, we were, we were, we were, uh, listening to the radio.
	Yeah, yeah, I got it turned down, though.
	Anyway, anyhow, um, uh, Talk 650 over here in Sacramento is pulling some kind of a infomercial after your break at three o'clock.
	Uh-huh.
	Yeah, it's going for like about 15-20 minutes into your show.
	Well, it's probably paid programming.
	Radio stations, my program, two radio stations, is delivered to them on a barter basis.
	In other words, it is free to them.
	Oh, okay.
	And they run commercials in it, and we run commercials as a network in it.
	And that's the way it works.
	That's a little lousy for your fans.
	Well, look, if a radio station gets an opportunity to make money... They're going to.
	That's right.
	I mean, people aren't in business to be nice to people, right?
	They're in business to make money.
	That's correct.
	Oh, well, I guess we're all victims of monetarism, then.
	Well, that's what America's based on.
	Well, some of America is good.
	I beg your pardon?
	Some of America is good.
	Oh, I didn't say it was bad.
	No, I know.
	I just wanted to put that in there.
	All right, sir.
	Take care.
	Take care.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, hi Dave from St.
	Paul at the site of the train wreck.
	Hi Dave, appreciate the call.
	Yeah, I got some confirmation from you if you need it.
	I had a relative that was in the building at the time it happened in the valley.
	Oh boy.
	Yeah.
	Is the FBI crawling all over that scene?
	Yeah, they're crawling all over everybody.
	Anybody that had anything to do with any of the workers or anything.
	They even interviewed me.
	The only thing that they know for a fact is that two of the hydraulic levers on the main switching coming into the training yard had been tampered with.
	And that's confirmed.
	And they're also relating to the... This is the second, you know, incident.
	Well, the second major one that's caught the press's... In the last two weeks.
	Right.
	And this has been confirmed that they're just trying to figure out the reasons why now.
	They're trying to track it down to maybe someone that worked with the railroad, or maybe someone that had a vengeance against one of the employees, or someone higher up in the management.
	That's what they're trying to lean toward right now.
	That's what they're trying to ask everybody.
	And, of course, everybody doesn't have a whole lot to say, but it hit everybody's devices with a surprise.
	Sure.
	And nobody really has a whole lot to offer to it, but they're tearing it apart.
	They're really tearing it apart.
	Well, I think it's horrendously sad.
	It is.
	It's really a sad day in this world when terroristic... I predicted terrorism to come to this country.
	But, you know, I didn't think it would be from within.
	I didn't think it would have, you know, jeopardized... The people who are behind this aren't thinking of much.
	I don't say a whole lot for people with that kind of vengeance in their mind.
	They don't belong in this world.
	Well, if people, for whatever reason, whether it's some vengeance against the uh... merging banks or uh... railroad companies or some sort of political more likely uh... motivation behind it all it's gonna terraced to pieces terraced to pieces yeah it's uh... i don't know uh... i love your show i listen to you every night and uh...
	Maybe with people like you out there, maybe we can have some effect.
	Maybe you can make an influence or make a difference.
	I appreciate the call.
	If there is an area I can make a difference, this is the area I would like to make a difference.
	Americans have got to realize that their heritage, their nation, their roots, their forefathers, That document we live by is more than just a document.
	And that change in America can be accomplished in the body and the spirit of that document.
	And God help us if we've become so radicalized that the only way we can any longer think we can change things is with booms and bangs and guns and bullets.
	In America, it seems like it's become the first thing that people grab for.
	Not ballots.
	Not grassroots movements.
	But bullets and bangs.
	See, that's the end.
	West of the Rockies?
	No, make that the wild card line.
	You're on the air.
	Yeah, let me cue my radio real quick, Art.
	Okay.
	Just that guy who kills radio real quick.
	How you doing?
	I'm doing fine.
	Yeah, this is Mike from Montana.
	Montana Mike?
	Yeah, Montana Mike, exactly.
	Okay.
	I have a few things out there I want to talk about.
	Okay, first, you don't like Bill Quinn.
	I listen to your radio and I can tell that.
	You're a discerning individual.
	Well, I guess so.
	Now, I mean, give me a reason why you don't like Bill Clinton.
	We don't have enough program left.
	Well, what have you done that's so bad?
	Okay, now, I know you're a staunch Republican.
	I understand that.
	I'm a staunch conservative.
	You're a conservative?
	Yeah.
	I'm not a staunch Republican.
	As a matter of fact, if you want to know the truth, I consider there to be so little difference at the presidential level between Republicans and Democrats.
	That's as far as I'm willing to go.
	I'm a staunch economic conservative.
	I'm a social mixture.
	Right, okay, I understand.
	But you know, the President is really just a figurehead.
	I mean, he can veto things, but if the Congress and the Senate are running by two-thirds margin, it doesn't matter if he says no or not.
	Correct?
	Well, you're turning to Something trivial.
	Something that is not trivial.
	A veto is a very non-trivial thing.
	Only in the rarest of circumstances are vetoes overridden.
	So it's not a trivial power.
	And sir, so far, the President's veto or threats of it have managed to keep the larger parts of what's called the Republican Revolution by Mr. Gingrich and others stopped.
	I understand that.
	Do you understand that it's not trivial?
	Okay, I'm not saying it's not trivial, but the president, as you know it, actually is a figurehead, right?
	No.
	Wrong.
	I mean, perhaps the greatest power that a president has is that of the bully pulpit, getting out there and talking.
	Right.
	And that's one thing that Clinton really does very well, is he talks.
	He's very good at it.
	Well, he is good at it, sir.
	I have no idea whether he is as you are a Leo.
	I don't even know what he is.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hey, it's me, Art.
	Hello.
	I'm from Los Angeles.
	Yes.
	I love the more esoteric parts of your shows, and I like you, but I've got to say, Pat Buchanan is not the Republican.
	He's a caveman.
	I was raised as a Republican.
	My mother was a state representative in Connecticut for 15 years.
	And Republicans back then and there were classy, well-educated.
	They weren't uneducated.
	Pat is well-educated.
	How well-educated?
	I said Pat is well-educated.
	Well, he seems to be well-educated in the white male... Well, he's a knuckle-dragger, I can see, as far as you're concerned.
	But whatever else you say about Pat, and I'm not a full Pat Buchanan fan, Except in certain ways, and that's why I'm disappointed this morning, because whatever else he was or wasn't, he was always a man of stone-hard conviction.
	And not one to cut and run.
	I've given a little controversy, you know?
	He jumps right into the middle of that, and so I'm saddened by what's happened today.
	Okay, but his supporters are always saying, oh, he's got the liberals on the run and they're afraid and all that.
	Well, I don't see what's so great about making everybody afraid of you.
	Personally, I think he's a playground bully that I always hated when I was growing up.
	He was bloodying people's noses, you know?
	Well, I mean, there is that part of Pat.
	That's why they had him on Crossfire.
	You know, you don't put a wimp on there.
	At least not on the right, I hope.
	And he wasn't that.
	But he's said a lot of things that are going to come back to haunt him, and they are now.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast am from february 15 1996
	you know i'm just a man with a gun in his hand, hey love, got me on
	my knees, yeah, dangin' darling feet.
	midnight at the oasis, send your camel to bed you
	Shadows paintin' our faces Tracin' the romance in our hands Heaven's holdin' our hands We've been shinin' just for us Let's slip off to a sand dune You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 15th, 1996.
	Good morning, everybody.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Somebody just sent me a fax and said, boy, with a friend like you, Pat Buchanan doesn't need enemies.
	Let's you and I get something straight, okay?
	I'm not on anybody's campaign staff.
	I don't pretend to be.
	I don't want to be.
	I'm not going to be.
	I do a talk show, and I try to remain as objective as I'm able.
	On any given night, on any given issue, I come in here without a driven agenda to do a talk show with you guys.
	If you want somebody who is on somebody's campaign staff, I think you'll not have a hard time finding them.
	If that's what you want to listen to, there's plenty of people out there who do that.
	That's not me.
	And nor do I intend to, or will let it be, ever.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	Hi.
	Mike at San Francisco.
	Hi, Mike.
	Actually, your response to the last fax was a real good segue.
	I'm going to introduce a controversial subject.
	Sure, go ahead.
	That's what we're here for.
	Correct.
	I wanted to basically toss around some ideas regarding domestic partnerships.
	I'm straight, by the way, even though my location might suggest otherwise.
	Isn't that awful in its own way that your location might suggest otherwise?
	You said it.
	It's population.
	It's not a tendency.
	I know.
	And there's a lot of stereotypes out there.
	I know.
	Believe that.
	Anyway, what does the word consummate mean to you?
	Just off the top of your head in terms of an English meaning, not necessarily regarding marriage.
	To seal, to... That's the best I can come up with for the moment.
	To seal a bargain, to seal a relationship.
	Cement.
	To make solid something like that.
	Yeah, okay.
	Okay.
	I was going to suggest a domestic partnership change in the law such that responsibility for children, responsibility for Other family members would somewhat be separated from two people who just wanted to live together.
	And it would solve, I think, a whole lot of controversy over the tax code and over, let's say, special privileges, special classes, special categories.
	Well, right now, right now, with our present tax code the way it is, there's actually a penalty to Uh, the partnership that we have that we call marriage, heterosexual marriage.
	Right.
	So what I'm proposing is that all domestic partnerships be treated the same way from a legal and economic standpoint, whether it is homosexual or heterosexual, provided there are no children and obviously no third parties involved.
	In other words, bigamy is not permitted.
	As soon as someone decides to have a child, an entirely different contractual relationship... Alright, let me ask you this.
	Once we give up on the traditional relationship that we support or penalize, however it may be at the time, with tax manipulation, then why don't we give up on it all?
	In other words, why would bigamy under such a circumstance remain a taboo?
	Why would any Well, what I'm intending to preserve... You're trying to go part of the way.
	Well, no.
	Well, yeah, maybe.
	I'm going most of the way.
	But what I'm trying to preserve is, I think, a value that homosexuality as well as heterosexuality espouses, which is a commitment to spend your life with one person.
	Yeah, but once you're ready to cast aside the heterosexual relationship or include with it the homosexual relationship then you might as well include any uh... any form of uh... uh... domestic partnership that anybody cares to talk about uh... whatever it is.
	I am intended to do that.
	Well then what's the matter with two wives?
	Two husbands?
	Why shouldn't they be entitled uh... and then they would make that argument.
	I'm not saying necessarily that that should be illegal.
	I guess what I'm saying is I would treat A one-on-one relationship as something more special than other relationships.
	The other is up for discussion, I guess.
	The main point is that I wanted to separate childbearing from living together.
	That was the main distinction.
	I can concede your other point if you want me to.
	I do, but then that makes my point.
	The moment we begin moving off the road that we're on now.
	There is not going to be an end to it, but maybe there will be an end to us.
	Well, what would be the... I think it would add responsibility to partners who have to decide whether or not to have a child.
	You would no longer have the same tax penalties and tax benefits that now put incentives in all the wrong places.
	And there would be no negative stigma to any two people wanting to live together under a contractual basis.
	I guess I'm just arguing that once we begin down that road, it's a long road and it doesn't stop where you suggest it might stop.
	And it leads to not a place that I want to go.
	Well, I guess it would stop where the public would let it stop in terms of what they would legislate along the lines of bigamy, for example.
	Well, my suggestion to you is that the public would realize quickly that once they made that change, there would be many other changes that would be made.
	I can't argue because we're not there, but as I say, my main thrust was trying to distinguish the... No, I understand.
	I understand your argument.
	It's a legitimate argument, and let's see how everybody responds to it.
	Perhaps we could solve one of the two problems and not the other as well.
	If someone could think of a way around that.
	Alright.
	Thank you very much.
	It's an argument worth making and it's an argument worth having the audience respond to.
	To me it's a road that once you begin going down it and making homosexual relationships inclusive with heterosexual, then you've opened the door to arguments, similar arguments from Literally all kinds of groups.
	So it's not an argument easily made from the way I think about it.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	I'm calling from California.
	Yes, sir.
	And let's see.
	I was surprised to see something on an early morning talk show this morning.
	They were covering, in part, the trial of McVeigh and the Oklahoma City bombing.
	Yes.
	And it showed a clip of one of the mothers of two of the children that were killed in the bombing from an earlier show.
	Right.
	And this mother and her father expressed some suspicion that they saw, that morning, before the bombing took place, bomb squads in the area ready.
	And I've never seen that before.
	Well maybe, you know, there's a lot of things here that we don't know about the Oklahoma bombing.
	Some sort of warning issued up that we don't even know about.
	And if there was, you know, there's going to be a bomb, or whatever it is somebody would say, there are frequently things like that done before bombings.
	Maybe they were alerted.
	Yeah, that's possible.
	I don't know.
	That's possible.
	Do you know who's going to be on Dreamland Sunday?
	I do if I look.
	Yeah.
	Let me see.
	Can I get to it?
	It's going to be Raymond Fowler, Dr. Fowler, author of Watchers 2 and Betty and Reese and Luca together.
	I'm sure you're familiar with both those names.
	Oh, yeah.
	Okay, thanks.
	Okay, sir.
	Take care.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Yes, this is Jim in Baton Rouge.
	Hi, Jim.
	I really enjoy your show.
	I have a newspaper route.
	That's how I get to listen to most of it.
	Unfortunately, the station here cuts off a little early.
	Well, Baton Rouge is kind of east.
	Well, I wanted to talk about a couple of things.
	One of the things I haven't heard addressed, and it may have been a misprint, but I haven't heard anything about that, and that was about Mr. Buchanan.
	Yes, sir.
	And that was that he was for a five-year moratorium on legal immigration.
	I believe that is correct.
	And what kind of a stand was on that?
	Kind of a cooling off period.
	Well, I don't necessarily disagree.
	I agree with most of what Buchanan says on immigration.
	Immigration... I'm not against immigration.
	Not at all.
	It has strengthened us.
	Right.
	But like any good soup, if you throw too many Wild ingredients in.
	You're on the chance of spoiling it.
	Immigration has strengthened us, but immigration at the levels we're suffering it now, underline the word suffering, is harmful.
	So I support certainly a big modification.
	I want the borders.
	The word isn't sealed.
	We have a right to know who's coming and going.
	And the other Republicans who are making noises now about How wrong it would be to have a wall, or to have enforcement by military, or whoever it would take to enforce our borders, they're out to lunch.
	It's a federal mandate that we enforce our borders, and we've ignored it for too long, and it's economically threatening our future.
	Millions of people.
	Right.
	So, I agree with the President on that.
	Another thing, you may recall a lady that I called you earlier in the week and she was sharing with you about a rainbow she saw.
	Oh, yes.
	And I had the fortune to live in West Texas in Alpine, where you may remember there was an earthquake.
	I do.
	In April.
	Yes, that's correct.
	In fact, I was standing outside of my pigeon hole off of the water I was changing, and I got to feel it, which was quite an interesting experience.
	I bet.
	Just being out on the open ground there.
	It's pretty open in that area, and there were rainbows, double rainbows, quite often double rainbows actually, and I chased one down because I could see where it was.
	You too, huh?
	Near the dump.
	Yeah.
	And just like you said, well actually like she said too, it was gold at the end of it.
	I've never found the end of one.
	But, you couldn't get to it because it was just like a mirage.
	As soon as you'd get to it, it would move away a little bit more.
	That's right.
	Actually I chased a couple of the ends of it and it was incredible to look through it and actually see the rocks and the grass and I guess cattle actually in a couple of instances and they all had kind of a golden glow but it was I think because you were looking through the crystals but it was quite an experience but as you said you really It looked like you could get to it, but you sure couldn't get to it.
	Well, there really was a day when I thought there might be some at the end of a rainbow.
	You know, maybe a little Irish guy and a pot of gold.
	Right.
	Something.
	At least something somewhat mystical.
	And so I chased them.
	I did.
	I chased rainbows, I admit it.
	I used to do that sort of thing.
	I used to be fascinated with weather.
	I still am.
	And so I chased rainbows.
	Never got to them, though.
	Thank you very much.
	Okay.
	Take care.
	I did.
	In a car, too.
	You know, take this road, take that road.
	It's obviously over there.
	I did it with somebody else too.
	I mean, why not?
	on.
	That lady claimed she actually reached the golden, glowing end of a rainbow.
	I never made that.
	As this fellow said, it always moved, tantalized me and moved, and then, of course, finally disappeared before I could reach the very end of it.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air high.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	You have to talk now.
	Okay, good.
	Vern from Utah.
	Yes, sir.
	I'm concerned with you, Art, about what is reported about an accident which would damage many people.
	Very unfortunate.
	You referred to it as unthinkable.
	That's right.
	Horrible, if it is done by one of our own.
	Yes.
	But I think it requires us not to stop thinking.
	There are some things, most of which have come by way of your program that I will just mention.
	It doesn't take a lot of discussion, but let me mention a few that I think might, if we keep thinking, give us some thoughts other than our immediate reaction.
	You had on there a man who was hit by lightning.
	I did, yes.
	And had an after-death experience?
	That's right.
	He mentioned that he had had CIA connections, worked with some agency.
	You asked him the question, had he killed anyone?
	Yes.
	He said yes.
	I recall, yes.
	Yes.
	And sometimes when these actions are taken, they misdirect so that it's never known who really did the killing.
	Because these agencies do, I have to assume it's other than their involvement.
	In other words, what you're saying, you need not take all this time, you're saying you think the government may have wrecked the train.
	No.
	For their own purposes.
	No, I agree with what you have said.
	That there are among civilian groups, militia groups, and also among agency groups, hotheads.
	I agree.
	And it's possible that these hotheads ...are able to infiltrate these other groups and influence them.
	Now that is being indicated in some of the reports coming out of Oklahoma.
	Yeah, that's probably true.
	That the background of some of these men that are being tried now had influence of others who were hotheads from one agency or another.
	And... I don't deny it.
	They're on a collision course, sir.
	I've been saying so for a long, long time now.
	But that doesn't say...
	That citizen groups, or militia groups, are among those who are really trying to be loyal patriots.
	Nor, sir, did I say that.
	I didn't say that.
	I'm not charging you.
	I'm just saying, I'm recalling some of the things that have come up.
	In the end, sir, in the end, in the end, sir, it doesn't matter who the hell it is, whether it's, it really doesn't, whether it's a nutball, a right-wing, left-wing, middle-wing groups, nutball groups doing this, or it's wild-card people in agencies, BATF or whoever, It doesn't matter.
	If this is the direction we're headed, the collision is inevitable, and the result is inevitable.
	Yes, and the moral fiber of a people is at stake.
	Absolutely.
	Our whole way of life, our whole idea that is America is at stake.
	Everything.
	Thank you very much. Our whole way of life, our whole...
	the whole idea that is America is at stake. Everything.
	It's all on the line, ultimately.
	And if we continue the way we are now, we're going to turn ourselves into another Yugoslavia
	or worse.
	you Now we take you back to the night of February 15th, 1996,
	on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Back to the lines we go, and the first time caller line, you're on the air.
	Yeah, how you doing, Mark?
	Doing fine.
	This is the Nomad from Denver.
	Yes, sir.
	Just got one big concern.
	Where are the Stadler Brothers?
	They're right here.
	All right, I'd love to hear them.
	You mean I missed them the whole night I didn't get to the Stadler Brothers?
	Well, hey, I'm getting pretty concerned here.
	Oh, well, sir.
	If you can bring those out for me, I sure would appreciate it to wrap up the night.
	Woo!
	I keep hearing you're concerned about my happiness.
	From Denver, huh?
	Is Denver a big country music area?
	If I were walking in your shoes, I wouldn't be wearing them.
	Yeah, I know.
	I'm stuck on it.
	But you and my friends are worried about me.
	I'm having lots of fun.
	Something about this song.
	I don't know what it is.
	Anyway, East of the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	This is Lee from St.
	Louis.
	How you doing, Lee?
	Oh, we're fine.
	Just a couple comments.
	One, on this Taiwan incident that could likely happen.
	Yes, sir.
	I think you gotta remember that Taiwan, with a population of 21 million, has more than a capacity to defend itself against a Chinese military that really doesn't have that much capability to land troops.
	Well, look, if China goes after Taiwan, sir, it's gonna be bloody as hell.
	I'm not saying Taiwan can't defend itself.
	Oh, I agree with you, but when you're talking several hundred miles, You have to remember that the Chinese Navy is just not capable of sustaining the kind of operations that we had.
	It's true, but the Chinese, sir, can rain down missile after missile after missile on Taiwan.
	But Taiwan could respond in kind.
	I'm not so sure about that.
	They do have a missile technology that we gave them in the late 60s and early 70s, which I'm sure they have worked on since that time.
	Well, either way, all I'm saying is it would be bloody.
	It certainly would be bloody, and it even might be likely if this election elects a president and decides to mandate independence.
	I think China will strike out one way or the other, and if it begins, it's going to be awful, and we're going to have a choice to make, not an easy one.
	I think the choice we need to make is we need to support a fellow democracy And I think we should recognize their independence.
	Because if we were to, then the European countries would, your Asian countries would follow along, and I think that would put China in a box where they couldn't really do a lot.
	China doesn't give a rat's back end about what the world thinks.
	They proved that at Tiananmen Square.
	And they'd prove it again.
	China's still an absolutely rock-hard communist nation.
	Don't ever make any mistake about that.
	Politically, they're as rock-hard communist as they've ever been, sir.
	I appreciate the call, and we're going to have to spend more time on that, and unfortunately, I'm afraid we're going to get the opportunity.
	Well, to the Rockies, you're on the air without much time here.
	Hello?
	Hello!
	Is this the start bell?
	Yes!
	Hi!
	Let me turn my radio down.
	All right, turn it down quick, because we only have seconds.
	In fact, very few seconds.
	He's going to turn down everything.
	Okay, I just want to say goodnight, America.
	Well, you know what?
	That's all you've got time to say, so say it out loud, sir.
	Goodnight, America.
	Ha, ha, ha.
	You got the honors tonight.
	From the high desert, thank you all.
	Nick Begich, tomorrow night.

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