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Jan. 22, 1996 - Art Bell
01:22:01
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Viruses - Ken Goddard
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Time Text
Alright, now, a quick fact.
Art, we live in the Phoenix area, known as the Valley of the Sun since 1960.
Since then, the population, as most people know, has been growing at unbelievable rates.
Yes, Phoenix.
People are moving here from every corner of the country.
They have a tendency to bring with them habits, lifestyles of wherever they came from.
Some of them tend to bring Things like plants, not indigenous to the desert southwest in the earlier days.
If you had sinus problems or asthma, or allergy-related conditions, you were advised to move to Arizona.
Now, even if you've never had sinus problems, allergies, asthma, people develop them when they move here.
I think that it's greatly due to the fact that we have far too many people in this area, which, ecologically, was never designed to support the mass population.
We've got Uh, air, auto exhaust, two types of pollens never known before here.
Uh, we've covered much of the desert with concrete, so it's hotter, more humid.
We've altered our weather here.
The desert is a delicate balance of nature.
Can't survive this kind of abuse.
People don't seem to get the fact that we're killing this once beautiful area.
That's from Carol in Phoenix.
Do you agree with that, uh, Ken?
Yeah, I love the desert, but I was my first, uh, duty assignment of the Riverside and San Bernardino County
Sheriff's Department.
I spent a lot of time out in the desert doing crime scene work.
And early in the morning, I don't think there's anything more beautiful than the desert.
But it's so fragile, so easily destroyed.
Destroyed.
Do you know where I am?
I'm in a little place called Pahrump, Nevada, about 65 miles west of Las Vegas.
Ah, okay.
I'm in serious desert here.
Yes.
And a lot of people look on my desert and they say, what a desolate, no man's, nothing land.
Oh, no.
They have no idea the place teems with life.
It has its own ecology, and as you said, it's really delicate.
Especially early in the morning.
Oh, yes, sir.
Listen, I want to start taking calls in just a second here.
That's exactly what we're going to do.
Attention audience.
But first, this may seem silly, and we've had a lot of fun with it, but there's a little possibility.
I've had these people calling my show and sending me faxes, Ken, who claim to be immortal.
In our human future, Or presently.
Is there even a real possibility, Ken, of, in essence, immortality?
In other words, there seem to be exceptions to almost everything.
There are even prostitutes in Africa that don't get AIDS.
So, could there be an exception to immortality?
Will there even be triggering mechanisms, genetics, that There may be a mechanism for turning that off.
our cells from repairing. Exactly. And if you could give you know that's another one
of these interesting aspects of DNA that I think as we the more we understand it
the more in awe we're going to be of what that is. There may be a mechanism
for turning that off. It may be a philosophical question of do we? Because what happens if we don't die?
I guess what I'm asking you is, if it's a good question, what I'm asking you is, is it possible that of the five and three quarter billion people that are out there right now, there's one or two or ten walking around who've had that switch thrown by nature somehow?
I would be skeptical, and I'm skeptical predominantly because I'm so used to the con game and my work.
Of course.
I'm really not sure.
It's possible that there's been a manipulation.
I suspect the answer is no.
I would love to be disproven because I'd love to see what that genetic switch is.
Wouldn't we all.
How it's used is something else again.
The fiction writers love to dwell on those things.
And as long as we're there for a second, if somebody was wandering around like that, there's one thing they'd know for sure.
And that is that if they were discovered, people like Ken Goddard and his equivalent in every capital in the world would take them and do what we did to frogs in the ninth grade.
There'd be that concern?
There'd be people that would be afraid, that would want that person destroyed?
You'd have all these human emotions that would be unleashed?
There'd be absolutely no reason for a person like that to wash their head up?
All right, let me give out the numbers.
Let everybody know who they're listening to.
It is Ken Goddard.
He's a fascinating guy.
He has a B.S.
in Biochemistry from the University of California, Riverside.
M.S.
in Criminalistics, California State University, L.A.
And he is actually Director of the Forensic Lab up in... And we're going to talk a little bit about Forensic Lab, too, in Ashland.
They don't entirely get funded by the government, even though they are... Well, actually, I guess we'll ask them in a moment about that and then start taking calls.
Here is the quick version of the telephone numbers if you've got any question generated by what we've done so far.
First time callers to the program, area code 702-727-1222.
702-727-1222.
The wild card lines, multiple, are your nickel, but let it rain until it's answered.
Area code, 702-727-1295.
Toll free, west of the Rockies, it's 1-800-618-8255.
free west of the Rockies it's 1-800-618-8255 1-800-618-8255 if you're east of the Rockies
1-800-618-8255.
doesn't matter where it's 1-800-618-8255 And just before we take our first call, Ken, am I right about that?
You are a government agency.
Yes.
Taxpayers pay everything.
Oh, they pay everything?
Absolutely.
Well, except when they declare it's unessential, I suppose, but they pay us then, too.
Oh, that's right.
They did, huh?
Yeah, we were shut down for three weeks.
I understand, though, that you also get public donations?
Through the Fish and Wildlife Foundation, we can get donations.
We're not allowed to have donations sent directly to us.
Oh, no kidding.
That would be a conflict of interest situation.
Okay.
They gave me a mailing address here.
If people wanted to make a donation, is it okay to give that out?
Sure.
We would have to direct the money actually to the Fish and Wildlife Foundation in Washington, D.C.
If you sent it to the Department of Interior, it would go there and would get to us eventually.
We just can't take it directly.
Oh, in that case, I can't give out... Somebody from your agency sent me an address in Eagle Point, Oregon.
And I guess...
I guess maybe that is not the right one, huh?
No, the only people we could take the money from would be the Fish and Wildlife Foundation in Washington.
Okay, this is for the avian care facility there?
Yes, that's a completely separate entity.
Dr. Ralph Wenger.
Okay, is it okay for them to send donations there?
Oh sure, it is.
Well, I mean, we can't get the money, but they're welcome to donate to that.
All right, I'll tell you what.
I won't even give an address.
I'll give an 800 number that they gave me here.
Is that okay?
And I'll provide you with an address for this.
All right, it's 1-800-460-7849.
Again, 1-800-460-7849.
That's a separate entity, and it cares for birds.
Right?
Yep.
All right, and so that's a good thing to be donating to.
And if you want to give out an address, go ahead.
Well, I don't have it here at the Fish & Wildlife Foundation in Washington, D.C.
That would get there, but I'll mail you an address once I get back to work for the Fish & Wildlife Foundation.
All right.
Good enough.
Let's take a few calls.
Out east of the Rockies we go.
You're on the air with Ken.
Hi.
Good morning, Art.
Good morning to you.
Where are you, sir?
And Ken?
I'm in the Detroit area.
Good morning.
We're listening to WJR.
For the first time since you came on here, October 30th, Art, they've taken you off the air after the 4 o'clock news.
After the 4 o'clock news, yeah, I know they made a shift there, and hopefully it'll shift back, but it's just a one-hour shift.
Oh, so that is a temporary thing?
I have no idea.
You'd have to give WJR a call.
Okay, that's what I'll do.
I just wanted to make you aware of that.
Evidently you are, and I wanted to thank you for a good show tonight.
Alright, thank you.
I very much appreciate it.
And Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Hello there.
Oh, yes.
Hi, where are you?
I'm in Janesville, Wisconsin.
Yes, sir.
And I would like to know what I, as just one person in the world, can do to alleviate the problem of the spreading of the disease.
Well, actually, in a lot of ways, that's a very good question from Wisconsin.
What can any single individual do?
One issue is be thoughtful about, for example, if you travel to a foreign country, bringing things back that don't go through quarantine.
That's the whole point of a quarantine, to make sure there's nothing in these fruit, vegetables or animals.
Well, we're on the subject.
I remember driving from Nevada and California or anywhere else into California.
They used to have, and maybe they still do, a little quarantine stop at the California border.
Yep.
And they would ask you about fruits and vegetables and things like that.
Fruits and fruit fly and things like that, absolutely.
Did that work?
Is it working?
It doesn't mean that the little creatures don't get through every now and then.
First of all, they'll tend to ask you, do you have any fruits and vegetables?
And if you say no, they let you typically go through.
And if you lie to them, you could bring one with you.
Unless you're going to search every car, it's really hard to stop a little fly that's, what, 30 seconds and it's gone.
In a perfect world, I guess they would be searching every car, wouldn't they?
Why, I don't know about that.
I don't want to live in a police state.
Well, right, but I meant scientifically pure.
Sure, okay.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean socially or politically pure.
Yeah.
Scientifically, you'd have to have some sort of scientific instrument that would detect all these things, yeah, I guess.
Oh, we can't even make things, we'll detect explosives reliably.
Oh, I know.
Um, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ken Goddard, hello.
Hello, are you coming to Portland all by yourself?
I beg your pardon?
Are you coming to Portland all by yourself?
Uh, I am coming to Portland, uh, well, not by myself.
I'd like to see your cat.
Well, I'm not bringing my cat to Portland.
Okay.
You need to bring somebody to talk to him as an author.
I just have to look at your book.
Alright, sir.
I don't even like taking my cat down the street while we're on the subject.
The listeners out there in the Portland area, do go see him.
There's nothing worse for the old ego to sit there surrounded by all your books and nobody will get near you.
Wouldn't that be awful?
I know the experience all too well.
The author's dream is to be surrounded by hundreds of copies of your book and you have this illusion that people will be climbing over each other and grabbing the last one.
I was at a table in a shopping mall one of the first times I did it surrounded by all those books and for a half hour no one would come near me until finally a small child did a test of what I was doing up there if I was really a writer.
Let's try one more quick call here for the bottom of the air.
I learned to bring somebody with me to talk to.
Well, I'll bring my little Arash, I'll bring my wife, she'll be there, and my wife will
be there.
My wife will be there.
She won't put up with the same words.
All right.
Mind made that, well, this is going to be my only, the only time I'm ever doing it.
All right, let's try one more quick call here for the bottom of the hour.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Hi.
Boy, you're a hard guy to get through to.
Well, you got me anyway.
Where are you?
Okay, I'm in Springfield, Oregon.
Yes, sir.
And I've got a lot of family and friends that are in Wait a minute, sir.
Wait a minute.
He's explaining.
Boy, Ken Gutters, maybe 5% or less is what all of these conspiracy theorists are relating to, but by golly, I am
glad you are down there because you guys are doing ballistics on all of these poachers and everything because you were
never warned.
Wait a minute, sir. Wait a minute. He's explaining. What was it, Ken?
Oh, we help the local folks around here, the local law enforcement folks.
And it sounds like I'm talking to one.
Uh, you may be listening.
Now, both of you, hold on for a moment.
We'll be right back.
Actually, this theme music goes very well with the topic we're right in the middle of tonight with Ken.
Can you name this bumper music?
Hotspot, Hotspot, Hotspot.
Purple deal.
Number to call 1-800-562-6232.
I'll give it to you again.
Write it down.
1-800... Phone calls heavily now.
Back with Ken Goddard.
Are you there, Ken?
Absolutely.
All right, let's rock.
East of the Rockies.
Rockies, speaking of rocks.
You're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Where are you calling from, please?
I'm calling from Murfreesboro, Tennessee.
Yes, sir.
Okay, Mr. Goddard?
Yes.
Okay, I was listening to your show and your discussion on DNA and genetic research.
Uh-huh.
Okay, how far along down the road do you see, one of my instructors at the university was talking about designer babies.
Oh, sure.
Where people could just go into a lab and design their kids.
How far along do you see that down the road?
Or do we want to open that kind of Pandora's box at all?
Look at the way things are progressing.
Something in a neighborhood of 10 to 15 years is probably realistic.
Is it really?
Yeah.
I'm not sure that we want to do that.
I'm not sure we want to do that either.
Kind of like you go down to a place, down to a sitting room outside a lab and there's a little I don't know.
a catalog and you just sort of check off each thing.
You go, ah, blue eyes.
I think maybe it goes back to Christmas present stuff.
My granddaughter, I've got a picture of her.
She's an absolutely gorgeous little child, but she was surprised how she turned out.
That was wonderful that she won.
I don't know.
I certainly if I had a choice I wouldn't want her to have any diseases.
I'd be, what, greedy and angry.
What do we do?
that I want to protect her from everything.
It's a wonderful question. What do we do? Do we take advantage of the technology and what does that do to us as
humans?
Yesterday when they announced this new definitive test for breast cancer,
they said it raises some horrendous questions about whether people even ought to take the test.
We haven't got the cure yet.
Well, so there's that.
Now, being forewarned is forearmed, I suppose, and you could have breasts and ovaries removed.
Do you have that option?
Sure.
Or you could just go for a close scrutiny and monitoring. Recognizing that just because the
gene is there doesn't mean that that's going to trigger anything. But beyond that, if with
an 87% lifetime probability, you know, this information, if it gets to an insurance
company, you're dead meat. That gets back to privacy issues we were talking about before.
We've got to work these things out at a social level.
How do we deal with all this information?
And there's going to be a whole lot more available.
Science is picking us apart.
Yeah, science is getting ahead of our social and political ability to deal with this stuff, isn't it?
Scientists have always done that.
We've caused a lot of grief in our exploration.
I think we accomplished a lot of good, too, but... It's a mixed bag.
Yeah, I mean, scientists need to be taught social consequences.
That has to be part of the education.
I think they are thoughtful.
I think a whole lot more than they used to be.
I mean, it's like the manipulation discovery of what we can do with plutonium, for example.
It's done great good, I suppose.
It had great potential to do horrible harm.
Yeah.
That's right.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Hi.
Yes, sir.
Where are you?
I am in Phoenix.
Phoenix?
Oh, yeah, you bet.
And originally I'm from Eugene, Oregon.
I understand that being in Ashland as you are that possibly a lot of, I want to go back
to the question you had before about devil worshipping, because I have heard some rumors
and I have lived in South America and in Texas and Arizona and Oregon.
And I've heard them from each state.
What are the rumors, sir?
Well, the rumors are concerning, I guess the occult, so to speak.
What about it?
Well, when I was in Scottsdale, Scottsdale, Arizona, before, about a year ago, I met a lady at a cafe, and I kept talking to her.
And she was telling me about how she had basically run out of Ashland, Oregon because she had gotten to mysticism.
And she got into it deeply.
Where are you going with this?
Are you amazed that that doesn't seem to be the type of city that runs anybody?
No, exactly.
I used to play soccer there in high school and in tournaments.
Okay, where are you going with this?
Oh, where I'm going with this is that at one point I was in eastern Oregon, northeastern
Oregon and I had a strange experience that isn't worth talking about because it takes
too long.
But back to this idea.
All right, sir.
Thank you very much for the call.
I'm not sure he was kind of wandering around there.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Hello?
Goodbye.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Good morning.
Really?
Really.
No kidding.
Wow.
Where are you?
My name is Steve.
I'm in the Twin Cities.
It's cold.
I have a comment for you and your guest and then a question.
I've been listening to you Art for about a month or so.
I've been really impressed and this guest is by far your best and you are really intelligent and articulate and this is a great show.
I have a question for you.
You mentioned Last week, Art, when you introduced Ken as a guest, you said that he would be talking about a virus in Australia.
Yes, we spent a long time doing that.
Yeah, you did, and this was concerning rabbits.
Yes.
I heard something about a virus in Australia a couple of weeks ago that was killing horses.
I think it was eating their lungs, and the farmer that owned seven or nine horses that died also caught it.
I feel clouded and dank.
Do you know anything about that, Ken?
Oh, you know, this caller is exactly right.
I don't know whether you've heard about it, Ken.
No, I have not.
Uh, but there was a disease that began killing horses.
And the farmer, as the caller just said, Infected the lungs of the horses.
It dissolved them, Ken.
Dissolved them.
And, uh, the farmer caught the same disease and was killed by it.
Yeah.
And there's crossover.
That's one of the things that is going to happen every now and then.
And it's going to happen more and more.
Now, lately the CDC seems to be saying time and time again, if you listen to them carefully, Look out!
We're setting ourselves up.
Something's coming.
In other words, a new disease, new virus, new something.
We're setting ourselves up for it.
I think that's just predictable from the standpoint of the way history has worked.
These things erupt.
They occur.
And every now and then, they're going to occur in a fairly devastating manner.
You know, we've got a lot of skills, a lot of capabilities to contain these things.
And CDC is clearly one of them.
Well, those are interesting words.
Again, for those who did not hear it earlier, I'll force you to answer the same question because it's a real whiz-banger.
If something got loose, like Ebola or worse, airborne, And you had to do an Operation Clean Sleep or decide whether you were going to and there were thousands of people who would be taken out along with the virus.
I take it a virus could be killed.
With a thermonuclear device, with an airburst fuel-air device, burned up, in other words.
Sure, of course, they're a biological entity.
As a matter of fact, General Schwarzkopf had to face such a decision during the Gulf War.
He talked about it the other day.
They knew exactly where these biological chemical facilities were in Iraq, and they came to the General, and they said, Our scientists believe that if we hit them with these weapons that generate high heat and light, we can destroy them effectively without infecting people.
We believe it's true, but we're not sure.
What are your orders?
Then you wonder why you ever got promoted to a general.
Sure.
Probably asked himself that.
In fact, he ordered them destroyed, and I guess, unless you want to look at the Gulf War Syndrome, it was successful.
One hopes it was, yeah.
Probably.
Knowing some of the lethal types of disease vectors they had, the anthrax and things like that, you certainly want to destroy them.
Suppose the virus was loose, and since I got such good ratings news today, we'll pick Phoenix, okay?
A couple million people in Phoenix.
Yeah.
Now it's a couple of million people.
Same decision?
It's a decision to save the larger and sacrifice the smaller.
This is a common decision at that level on all kinds of things.
Do you look at individual people, their individual faces?
Do you look at the remaining, what, 250 million people in the United States?
We want never to be put in that situation.
Yeah, but you remember the movie, they threw pictures of the women and children down on the table, they threw down copies of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and they said, look here, these are U.S.
citizens you're talking about.
That's right.
Do you set up something equivalent to martial law to try to stop the spread or do you not?
Ah, let's hope we're not put in those situations.
Those are terrifying.
Well, how would you... As a scientist, what would I do?
Well, how would you even... You take Phoenix, for example.
Spread out, sprawling city.
Well, you're picking on Phoenix.
And to try to create a military force that would be around it to contain it.
Forget it.
You can't.
You can't.
The natural human thing is to flee.
To run from something that's threatening you.
You're damn right.
And the more security they put up, the more people try to run.
Absolutely.
It's self-defeating.
So we're talking elimination of the city.
If that maybe is contained by a continent.
Except people get on airplanes.
Well, yeah, we may have a chance to find out about that right now with this rabbit virus in Australia.
Do you think it'll be contained to Australia?
Is there any reason to think it would?
Well, it wasn't contained on that little island!
Well, yeah, if Ed was right, by chief scientist, his understanding was the mosquitoes, and there's a limit to how far a mosquito can go, even airborne.
But I don't think the mosquito is going to make it to the South Pacific.
Well, yeah.
Well, maybe not.
Certainly, maybe not.
There's lots of other things.
I mean, just somebody who doesn't like rabbits here in the United States could get ahold of one and bring it with them.
Well, or then there's always this.
These airplanes, I mean, how long does it take to fly from, say, Auckland To San Francisco.
I went to Australia and I think it was like a 16 hour flight.
That's not very long.
Could a mosquito live for 16 hours?
I would think so.
It could?
You got me.
I assume there's a mosquito expert out there, but I assume they last a lot longer than that.
I do think I have you then.
So that's my point.
In other words, on an airplane, one mosquito is not wildly You don't have to turn your imagination and let it go wild to imagine a mosquito might make it.
Yeah, sure.
We're not in a pristine environment designed for humans.
This is all very interactive, and it's not exactly a wilderness.
We've resolved a lot of things, but there's a lot of things out there we don't understand.
Hopefully it will not turn into a real wilderness from a human perspective.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Hi.
Hello.
Where are you?
I'm in Omaha.
This is Liz.
Hiya.
Hi Liz.
Hi.
I'm a little nervous.
I've never called into a show.
Oh, don't.
No.
I'm very easy to talk to.
You can ask anything you wish.
Okay.
I've got to give you a little background first.
In the early 80s, I was a street person in Phoenix.
And since then, I've kind of changed my life around.
And I'm doing very well living here in Omaha.
And during the time that I was in Phoenix, I did plasma donation, and at one point during this time, the people who ran the place asked us if anyone was willing to take an injection for $40.
And they said it was sponsored by the United States government.
Of what?
I'm sorry?
I'm sorry, what was the injection of?
I'm not sure, they didn't tell us.
Okay, okay.
Did you volunteer?
Yes, I did.
Forty dollars.
It's like a lot of money then.
Boy, it must have been to you.
And so, what do you believe the results of that to be?
Well, I do know for a fact that, like when they analyzed my blood later at a different facility for prostate formation, that a certain protein was a lot higher than what it ever had been before.
It went right off the charts.
Well, I'm wondering if you've ever heard anything about this experiment?
Alright, thank you.
God, what a great question, though, in a way.
Good question, yes.
I can't... I'm not aware of any agency that would do anything like that.
I would never want to... Do you ever hear something... Do you ever hear of the Tuskegee experiments, Ken?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I don't know that your statement's operative.
Yeah, I'd like to think we're more civilized than intelligent and a few other things.
Maybe I'm being optimistic.
Well, then I do believe also there was the announcement by a member of this administration that they fed plutonium to some children.
That sort of thing.
Recently?
No, no, no.
Oh, in the past.
Oh, yeah.
I'm sadly very much aware of that.
I don't think we talk about recent stuff.
That's 20 years from now.
Yeah.
But I mean, if we were doing that kind of thing 20 years ago, I wonder what the hell we're doing now.
Yeah.
I think we're in an era where we hold people accountable.
I hope we are.
We ought to be able to find things like this out.
Well, what about... Now, you're a government agency, so I assume that you are very carefully regulated.
What we do and say?
You bet.
Well, no, not what you do and say.
Well, what you do, not so much what you say, because you've been very open with us.
Oh, I make fun of government employees.
I have government bad guys in my books.
Let me tell you where I'm leading here.
In other words, there are certain things that can and can't be done, I'm sure, in your forensic lab.
You can't begin to Play with designer jeans and start making this and that and you can't... Well, I wouldn't allow it.
I don't know if there'd be anything to stop it.
Right, but you can't design up by regulation viruses and set them loose.
I mean, you're not at that level.
But what about the private sector, Ken?
What regulates that?
Who says that some lab in Kansas City somewhere, privately funded, isn't doing something that would just scare the...
Well, that's a problem.
I mean, even to regulate a laboratory, it's very hard to know what's going on in a lab.
People have made illicit drugs in college chemistry labs while their experiments are going on.
I mean, you know, most things are white powders.
That's a problem.
How much of a police state do you want us to be in?
Where you've got hundreds of thousands of FBI agents, my FBI buddies will whack me on the head, going out looking for these things.
We don't do that.
Alright, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Hi.
How you doing?
Okay, where are you?
I'm in Nashville, Tennessee.
Good to have you.
Go ahead, sir.
Oh, okay.
I wanted to make a couple of comments.
First, Mr. Goddard?
Oh, I make fun of government employees.
I have government bad guys in my books.
Let me tell you where I'm leading here.
In other words, there are certain things that can and can't be done, I'm sure, in your forensic lab.
You can't What about the private sector, Ken?
What regulates that?
this and that and you can't... Well I wouldn't allow it. I don't know if there'd be anything
to stop it. You can't design a... Right, but you can't design a bi-regulation viruses and
set them loose. I mean you're not at that level. But what about the private sector, Ken?
What regulates that? Who says that some lab in Kansas City somewhere, privately funded,
isn't doing something that would just scare the... Well, that's a problem.
I mean, even to regulate a laboratory, it's very hard to know what's going on in a lab.
People have made illicit drugs in college chemistry labs while regular experiments are going on.
I mean, you know, most things are white powders.
That's a problem.
You know, how much of a police state do you want us to be in where you've got What hundreds of thousands of FBI agents, my FBI buddies, will whack me on the head going out looking for these things.
We don't do that.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Hi.
How you doing?
Okay, where are you?
I'm in Nashville, Tennessee.
Good to have you.
Go ahead, sir.
Oh, okay.
I wanted to make a couple of comments.
First, Mr. Goddard, I truly appreciate your I don't know how intellectual it is, I'm just enjoying life
at this point.
Well it's not too often somebody comes along and can have a good moral view and a scientific
view at the same time.
I'm sure you could understand the depth of the whole lean out into an undying own understanding
thing.
Oh yeah, we try to take our work seriously but not ourselves seriously.
I wanted to make a couple of comments, first that guy that you hung up on with the whole
occult thing, I don't know where he was going with it but I'd like to give him my view on
it.
I think it's got a lot of, I've read quite a few books and there's a strong link between
that and the new age movement.
It's pretty dangerous because the new age movement is a rather positive thinking thing and it's rather addictive to a lot of people.
well i would again that is kind of off topic and that that's why i didn't even watered further than that
so i don't see how that the whole place to the right point to make that
small comment about mom mom that map the reason i
started to call about an hour ago Right.
Was the immortality thing.
Oh, yeah.
The immortality question.
Isn't that a wonderful question?
Do we know it?
First of all, I'm pretty convinced that nobody walking this earth is immortal.
And I'm sure that we have the capability, scientifically, to turn the switch on.
Hold on, sir.
Wait a second.
Wait a second, sir.
Hold on.
He said, Ken said, supposedly we had the scientific capability to throw that switch.
Should we do it?
Oh, no, no, no.
That goes right into the new age thing.
Well, no it doesn't.
That's playing God, man.
That's like making perfect babies.
Yeah, that might be true.
I agree with that.
This man and the previous man, We're trying to come at you from a religious point of view, Ken.
Well, that's fine.
Religion's important to our culture.
It is.
We trip across religious cultural issues all the time and are working with the American Indians and the Eskimos.
We have the right to interfere with their religious ceremony.
Where does the kind of work that we've been talking about this morning cross the line, in your opinion, And become God's territory.
And when are we treading?
You just touched upon one there.
Somewhere along the line, it's one thing to understand the genetics and the DNA.
The moment we have the capability to alter it at the inception of a human, then we're playing God.
We're going to do it.
But if we can do it, we will do it.
Sure we will.
If Ken doesn't do it, then somebody else is going to do it.
Yeah, it's going to be done for any number of probably good reasons that may have to
do with wanting a child free of disease.
Then I go back to my granddaughter.
I want her to be happy, healthy and live forever.
Sure.
But imagine how many of us there would be.
Uh, after a while.
Either, uh, if we became immortal or even anywhere near it free of disease.
Yeah, then you've got a decision.
Do you reproduce?
Uh, if you continue to reproduce.
The decision is to stop reproduction or else.
Uh, now wait a minute.
I've got my granddaughter out there.
Hey, Ken, we're at the top of the hour.
How are you doing?
Can you hang in?
Sure, this is fun.
Alright, well, there's more fun than I had for you.
A copy of the Seattle Times.
Uh, Thursday, January 18th.
And it is entitled, under the sports section, Fish and Wildlife.
It says, I'm quoting the headline, Deadly Virus Sweeps Through Sheep Herds.
A deadly flu virus that nearly wiped out a herd of southeastern Washington bighorn sheep two months ago has now spread to the treatment facility and now other herds roaming the breaks.
The virus called the, oh no, astralosis or something, is infecting and causing pneumonia in sheep at the treatment center in Caldwell, Idaho.
It recovered 74, sheep 35 have died thus far of it.
And so there it is, right in the middle of your field.
Ken, have you heard of this?
Yeah, I have.
Something that folks may not be aware of is that we have a laboratory specifically designed to deal with these types of disease vectors.
It's the Madison Health Lab in Madison, Wisconsin.
That was a part of the Fish and Wildlife Service and is now a part of the National Biological Service.
They go after these things much the way we go after our crime scenes.
Trying to figure out what's happening, trying to contain, control.
They have one heck of a job.
Containing control?
Yeah.
Key words, whether it's human viruses or animal viruses or same deal?
And it's a cold-hearted biz, isn't it?
It has to be.
It has to be.
So what happened with AIDS?
What happened with it?
I'm aware of it.
The control and contain part?
Oh, the control and contain part.
It sounds like it broke loose from probably the green monkey and got into humans.
And, uh... Yeah, the control and contain part.
Again, they detected it early, remember?
In San Francisco, patient one or zero, they call them whatever it is.
Yeah.
And, uh, where was the control and containment?
They got past it.
Uh-huh.
Okay, I don't think they had a sense of how, of what they had at that time.
I see.
Art grade program, here's a fact from Scott up in Oregon.
Where you are as a police officer in Oregon, I often deal with people that have poor hygiene skills or who by choice expose themselves to dangerous substances.
I'm far more terrified.
Of bringing home a dangerous virus of bacteria to my family than a bullet from a crook I might encounter.
What can I personally do to protect myself and my loved ones?
If you're talking about giving artificial respiration, they have mouth devices which were issued so that we can do CPR on somebody and not, you know, pick up virus, bacteria from them.
That's a real issue if you have somebody bleeding and you've got a cut.
If you're in a combative situation with someone, you're taking that risk.
As a general rule, Is it better for a person to be isolated and not exposed to whatever is running around out there or is it better for a person to be exposed constantly getting colds and flu and building
In that way their immune system will be exposed.
No question.
You want your immune system functioning fully.
That is the best protection because your immune system is adaptive.
Because I'm out here in the desert and since I work at home now I don't see a lot of people and I don't get colds.
I don't get flu.
Wait till you get on the airplane going to Portland.
I appreciate your letting me, just dropping that in there.
You're right, I've been up, but I've been on airplanes.
I went to the Far East.
I went to Tokyo, Bangkok, Hong Kong.
Survived the trip without a cold or the flu.
You may just have one heck of an immune system, too.
Maybe.
All right, here's another one.
Art, great show.
If your guest goes out to investigate an animal mutilation event with a team and they find everything is true, as Linda Moldenhaus always mentioned, Will they go silent like the government normally does?
If everything is true, how do we define true?
All right, let us say that you go to the site of an animal, a cattle mutilation, and there is no human explanation, or even, let's say, more to the point, you find that there is an extra human explanation.
Cam, this is going to be a hard question.
No, actually, it's not.
I'll answer it.
Um, would you release the information or would you go talk to your boss?
And say, look, boss, whoever your boss is, not who is your boss, is your boss in Washington or here?
No, my boss is in Portland.
Portland, as a matter of fact.
Okay, so would you go to your boss and say, look what I've got, boss, what do we do?
No, the first thing we would do, we would, first of all, probably be looking at each other and probably do a little bit of retesting.
I'm assuming we found something of what we might call high interest.
I should explain it, you know, from my standpoint, I was told there's $50 billion Stars out there in our galaxy and some 50 billion galaxies, you know, the chances of something else out there is really good.
Oh, you're darn right.
Yeah.
We would do just like we do normally, which is we would type up a laboratory report and we would issue that report to the requesting agency, which would be the law enforcement agency out there in, let's say, Phoenix.
If they're investigating, they're the only ones who can release that report.
We can't No, we would keep that report in our files.
We don't purge files.
We don't hide things away.
And I imagine somewhere along the line that case would be of interest to somebody.
So you're saying you wouldn't hide it?
We're not going to hide things.
We're just not.
Everybody in the government says I can.
Yeah, well I'll tell you what.
If this comes about, I'll go on your show.
If they're going to remove us, they can remove both of us.
Take us both out, huh?
Yeah.
Yeah, I understand the conspiracy thing, and I do understand the impact that an alien culture could have on ours.
And you're talking kind of the same kind of situation that we are with the viruses.
Right.
Yes, indeed.
Indeed.
Except this is emotional and psychological as well.
Yeah, but the difference is, you sort of told me that in the case of a virus, you wouldn't make it public.
You know, in other words... Sure.
Sure, do you panic people?
Yeah, and that's exactly what we're talking about.
Well, okay, so then how is evidence of alien presence unlike a virus in that... Well, you know, the honest answer is it's not.
Yeah, I know.
See, so... If I stop to think about it... Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Yeah, and when you get up there with your boss, he might say, now listen here, Ken.
I'm sorry, but you know what we've got here?
Is a panic situation.
Sure.
So, you might not pick up phone call RFL at all.
Huh.
Maybe I... Actually, I might make it difficult on you.
Pull you into that same emotional conflict.
All right.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Hi.
Hello there.
Hi.
Yes, you're on the air, sir.
We don't just pre-screen calls.
Where are you?
Hello?
Hello?
Are you there?
Last chance.
I guess not.
Wild Cloud Line, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Good morning.
Hi, this is Mark at Honolulu.
I just wanted to add a little information to the stuff you were talking about, the horses in Australia.
Oh yes, please.
Okay, it was about seven months ago, it was at a horse stud farm.
That out a little ways from Brisbane on the northeast coast of Queensland, there were about nine horses that came down with this unknown virus.
Was it a lung infection?
Yeah, it was a lung infection.
You know, I have it about right when I said it, because I think I read it in a news release.
It dissolved the lungs.
Yeah, yeah.
And the guy that died from it, his name was Nick Rails.
He's a famous horse trainer there.
But his assistant, his lady friend, she hasn't come down with it yet, and she was as close to those animals as he was.
And one other thing about the rabbits too, because I'm from Australia, the island was only about 50 kilometers off of the coast of South Australia, where the CIRSO, which is a government laboratory, Department were working on this rabbit virus.
Yes.
And so it got unleashed onto the mainland.
And mind you, they had been using myxomatosis for a long time, but the rabbits had become
immune to it.
Right.
And there were actually not hundreds of thousands, I'm talking millions and millions of rabbits
in the proportion that were doing severe damage.
There's no question about it, but if it can make it to 50 miles, then I speculated a mosquito can get on an airplane and make it here.
Now if all the rabbits here in the U.S.
were to die, somebody might say, who cares?
Well, I mean, it sounds like there may be a 1, 3, 5 percent population that are going to develop an immunity.
Also, I haven't heard that part yet.
Yeah, well I don't know but there were people up there and the health authorities and everything in Queensland, I know for sure because it was a big news item for several weeks, really did some heavy duty stuff.
They were going around in biological suits and all kinds of stuff trying to figure out exactly what that was and how come it did All right, thank you very much for the call.
It is frightening, and it's like Mother Nature is bad enough by herself.
What I'm worried about are these guys working in these labs, not like you, Ken.
Well, we've got a lab.
I know, but putting together... I just know what's going on, Ken.
I mean, if you look at what we were doing 40 years ago, the kind of experiments, if you simply come forward to today and imagine the kind of experiments going on genetically... Well, keep in mind that we allow people to patent these genetic designs, which is more of an incentive to experiment.
Alright, good.
Hold it right there.
We'll be right back.
A bit more of a commercial load right now.
You're listening To CBC.
You hear this music on my show almost every night.
It's the awesome music of my favorite group, Kuzco.
We'll now hire Octave.
Our tests in biochemistry that will confirm and identify the individual that the AIDS virus was contracted from.
In other words, it is genetically specific.
Please ask Ken, as a forensic scientist, if someone were to use their AIDS virus as a murder weapon, in other words, transmit it with the intent to kill, are there any statutes presently on the books that would allow for the individual to be actually charged with and convicted of murder?
You're probably asking the wrong person, although I believe the answer is yes, that you can be charged with, if not murder, at least a high level of assault.
If you know you have the AIDS virus, and you assault transfer blood, chemical fluid, or whatever, I don't believe that's true in all states.
You'd have to talk to the local law enforcement people.
Alright, or this one.
Hiram, please ask Ken if a virus I don't know.
That's a nice one.
advantage in other words instead of destroying a host, help a host. Make it
stronger in some way. Hmm, I don't know. That's a nice one.
I'm trying to imagine what a virus would do to help us. Well, no wait a
minute, that's You're talking about genetic engineering here.
Yes, sir.
The viruses are a way of transferring the genetic material.
There you are!
In fact, don't they vector specifically with viruses to introduce genetic material?
So, in other words, let us extend this.
Suppose, suddenly, some little virus were to mutate by itself and go in there and turn that aging switch we were talking about.
You must be a fiction writer.
This is good.
I like that one.
Is that not... I mean, it's not likely, but... No, it's not likely, but boy, what an idea.
What a cool question.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Hi.
Hi.
I was curious if you were aware that those figures that you gave on infectious diseases being up 58%... 87%.
Yes.
Well, actually if you subtract the number of AIDS, people with AIDS, it drops down to 22%.
At least that's what I've heard.
Well, no, I heard the exact opposite, that the AIDS people accounted for 22% of the total figure, the total increase.
So, it's still horrifying no matter which way you look at it, but the fact of the matter is, AIDS is here, and the totality of the increase in infectious disease deaths is up 87%.
That's a non-trivial number.
If nothing else, regardless of how someone might feel about the AIDS virus and the related sexual activities, this is something we need to stop simply because we don't know where it's going.
Caller, anything else?
Yes, I was wondering if Ken was aware of, or he's heard of MHC, major histocompatibility complex?
No, I'm sorry, I don't.
It's an array of immune system genes.
Supposedly, women can smell a difference than men, according to these genes.
You got me.
Yeah, you got me on that one, too.
I've never heard anything like that.
Save, perhaps, the use of some specific cologne.
Yeah.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Hello.
Hello there.
Uh, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Uh, good morning.
Ding dong, Mr. Bell.
This is Pete in Portland.
Hello, Pete.
Yes.
Uh, Ken.
Yes.
You, uh, from physics, you remember conservation laws, like conservation of angular momentum.
Oh, yes, I do.
Things like that.
Correct me if I'm wrong, aren't new conservation laws, the virtual ones, being discovered for the soft sciences, such as, well, in biology, the conservation of genetic information?
The thing that causes a DNA molecule to try to get longer, but also shut genes it doesn't any longer need, or extraneous copies and so forth?
Yeah, this is part of the intriguing part, that my sense is the more I've learned about DNA, the more in wonder you become.
Let me put something to you.
The word elegant is the only word that comes to mind that seems to adjust to that.
Elegant, that's a good word.
Now let me put something to you.
There are three basic strategies that we see in the gross level for conservation of genetic information.
One of them is niche over wealth that plants do.
They spread their genetic material over acres.
They try to command their resources, grow as fast as they can,
put every other type of genetic information in the shade.
We emulate that in agriculture.
We slash and burn.
And we plant what we want in the new sterilized.
and the sterilized infected.
To the both of you, this is a good call.
Hold on, both of you, we're going to take a break and muster at the bottom of the hour
and I'll hold both of you over.
If a caller is that agreeable to you?
You betcha.
Stay right there, and we'll be right back.
We're talking about viruses, nature, and man, and what we're doing on the planet, and all the rest of that with Ken Goddard, who's the director of the National Fish and Wildlife Forensic Lab up in Oregon.
We'll be right back.
You do, you can't imagine how much I do, I love you.
You're dirty and cheap, come here.
You're a little too weak, you've got the things that I hide upon you.
You're dirty and cheap and you're my girl.
Get it on, and I don't want to get it on.
Get it on, and I don't want to get it on.
A National Fish and Wildlife Forensics Lab up in Ashland, Oregon.
He is our guest, and here he is again, and here is Pete.
Pete Portland, thank you for holding on.
You're back on the air.
Okay.
The conservation of genetic information, the first strategy, we emulate plants with agriculture.
The second one is where we come from, we emulate our ancestors by migratory exploitation of patches of an environment, coming back around next season to re-exploit them since they've recovered.
You have the American Indian and the Buffalo, the Wolf Pack and the Reindeer Herd, things like that.
Okay, the third.
and most important strategy, I suppose, is that of making a sealed off ecology, like the biosphere,
that's highly controlled as opposed to the chaotic greater ecology from which it arose.
And that is the strategy of social insects, of the beehive, the termite mound, and the ant nest.
It requires a ruthless central control.
So ruthless that only one set of genes can be permitted to be sent on into the future.
And every component part of that system must have its will bent to that one purpose, by chemical means, by fair or foul.
When we emulate that strategy, we call it city building.
Yeah, that's right.
Now listen, there's a lot of evil that has created a lot of suffering, let's say.
And it's no surprise that we have to do it because it's the one strategy that can get us what we and every other creature on this planet need.
And that is, quickly, technology to get genetic information Off this crusty blue teardrop before some cosmic slush ball or one of a million other things annihilates all of it.
All right.
Well, do you agree with that?
Or do you think that... I don't intend on being a drone, first of all.
I want to fight back.
I'd rather go with a human.
There you go.
All right.
Good answer.
And I'm now going to bring up something that's really odd.
I don't know how to address this with you except to tell you I know it's true in the New Yorker magazine.
The new issue of the New Yorker magazine, there is an article saying that sperm counts, male sperm counts, human, worldwide, are going down at a rate they have never seen before, and if you were to project the rate of decline, would go to zero in our lifetime.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
You sure wouldn't think it by seeing the population explosion, but okay.
Uh, yes, for now.
Okay.
Yeah, sure.
But I mean, that would certainly do the trick, and it wouldn't take very long.
Well, I mean, the theory is that we've got built-in mechanisms to control populations of the Mother Nature variation, some of which are diseased, maybe the system internal ones.
Maybe the ultraviolet.
Sure.
Whatever.
Shouldn't we be reasonably concerned about I think there's a bunch of things we need to be concerned about.
I don't want to live my life in paranoia.
I may change my mind after being on the show this evening.
We've got to go forward as humans.
We've got to live our lives as best we can.
I think it's good that we're cognizant of these things.
things. There are a lot of things we may not be able to do much about other than just social
awareness. Carbofluorocarbons, things of that sort. There are some things we can do if we
recognize there are problems.
One of the biggest battles we've ever had was over the Spotted Owl.
Oh, sure.
A very emotional one.
Yeah, a very emotional one.
And it's cost a lot of jobs and a lot of tempers have been lost over this and people got socked in the nose over it.
If you are, you'll get nailed to the park sign, too.
Yeah, I've heard that.
What is your position on the whole spawned owl thing?
Were they really threatened?
Are they really threatened?
Are the measures they've taken justified in your opinion?
Well, let me add an added part to this whole thing, which... Remembering you've got to live in Oregon.
Oh yeah, that's sure.
They know how to find me here.
There's an interesting twist to all that, which is the barred owl.
The barred owl is a bigger, faster, stronger owl.
Sort of a turbo owl, if you will.
If we do nothing, absolutely nothing as humans, the Bardowl is probably going to drive this Bardowl into extinction.
By mating with it and creating hybrids or just simply driving it to territory.
So one of the interesting questions, should we be out there as federal wildlife law enforcement
officers with our shotguns, shooting every barred owl we can to protect one endangered
species and thereby create another one?
Well, actually, there is a little politician in you, isn't there?
That evades the question, right?
Okay, I tried.
Are the measures taken just fine, in your opinion?
The owl isn't the issue.
The issue is the nature of the habitat.
The owl is simply an indicator species.
That's the crucial issue, that the sense of the forest habitat decline is really the crucial problem.
So in other words, they use the owl to protect the habitat?
The owl, the canary, in the mine shaft.
You're right, it's a sort of answer.
Whether the owl itself is crucial, whether a hybrid, barred owl or spot owl is really a better owl to have out there.
Uh, you know, that's more of a philosophical, biology, whether joy or question.
But I don't think there's any question at all that we're causing damage to our habitat.
And that's something we have to worry about as humans, because that's our fishbowl.
That's where we live.
Great.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Hi, Mike Phoenix?
Yes, sir.
Hi, I'm just watching Species, the climax of Species here.
I haven't seen it yet.
I'm dying to see it.
It is worthwhile.
It's exciting.
I just had a couple of comments.
You had that question on what is the ultimate outcome of someone that's HIV positive.
Yes, sir.
From what I understand, about half of the people, maybe 55%, will ultimately get full-blown
AIDS.
About 20 to 25% will get the ARC.
They'll eventually die a long 20-year death with AIDS-related complexes.
And then there's about 20%, it seems, and the numbers are going down there a little
bit, but it seems to be steadying out.
about 20% will carry HIV positive but they'll be asymptomatic.
Which we need to find out why their immune systems can do that.
That may be our key.
I hope I'm one of those that will be asymptomatic.
I'm not HIV positive.
I have checked that out, but I wanted to just comment, Art, keep up the good work and glad to hear that there's a lot of people here in Phoenix that support your show.
Oh, it's incredible.
Thank you very much for the call.
I appreciate it.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Good morning.
Hi, Ken.
Yes.
One question.
All right, where are you calling from?
Oh, this is Matt from Eugene, Oregon.
All right.
Oh, OK.
OK, Ken, how much time and effort does your department spend on tracking down and investigation of the poaching of deer?
All right.
Oh, OK.
We have 200... Ken Goddard is the director of the Fish and A National Fish and Wildlife Forensics Lab up in Ashland, Oregon.
Here's our guest, and here he is again, and here is Pete.
Pete Portland, thank you for holding on.
You're back on the air.
Okay.
The conservation of genetic information, the first strategy, we emulate plants with agriculture.
The second one is where we come from, we emulate our ancestors by migratory exploitation of patches of an environment, coming back around next season to re-exploit them since they've recovered.
You have the American Indian in the buffalo, the wolf pack and the reindeer herd, things like that.
Okay, the third.
And most important strategy, I suppose, is that of making a sealed off ecology, kind of like the biosphere, that's highly controlled as opposed to the chaotic greater ecology from which it arose.
And that is the strategy of social insects, of the beehive, the termite mound, and the ant nest.
It requires a ruthless central control.
So ruthless that only one set of genes can be permitted to be sent on into the future.
And every component part of that system must have its will bent to that one purpose.
By chemical means, by fair or foul.
And when we emulate that strategy, we call it city building.
We call it civilization.
Yeah, that's right.
Now listen, there's a lot of evil that has created a lot of suffering, let's say.
And it's no surprise that we have to do it.
Because it's the one strategy that can get us what we and every other creature on this planet need.
And that is, quickly, technology.
To get genetic information off this crusty blue teardrop before some cosmic slush ball or one of a million other things annihilates all of us.
Alright, well, do you agree with that?
Or do you think that I don't intend on being a drone, first of all.
I want to fight back.
I'd rather go with a human.
There you go.
Alright, good answer.
And I'm now going to bring up something that's really odd.
I don't know how to address this with you except to tell you I know it's true.
In the New Yorker Magazine.
The new issue of the New Yorker magazine, there is an article saying that sperm counts, male sperm counts, human, worldwide, are going down at a rate they have never seen before, and if you were to project the rate of decline, would go to zero in our lifetime.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
You sure wouldn't think it by seeing the population explosion, but okay.
Yes, for now.
Okay.
Yeah, sure.
But I mean, that would certainly do the trick, and it wouldn't take very long.
Well, I mean, the theory is that we've got built-in mechanisms to control population, the Mother Nature variation from a witcher's disease, maybe the system internal ones.
Maybe the ultraviolet.
Sure.
Whatever.
Shouldn't we be reasonably concerned about I think there's a bunch of things we need to be concerned about.
I don't want to live my life in paranoia.
I may change my mind after being on the show this evening.
We've got to go forward as humans.
We've got to live our lives as best we can.
I think it's good that we're cognizant of these things.
There's a lot of things that we may not be able to do much about other than just social awareness.
You're up in Oregon.
There are some things we can do if we recognize there are problems.
You are up in Oregon.
One of the biggest battles we have ever had was over the Spotted Owl.
Oh sure, a very emotional one.
Yes, a very emotional one.
It has cost a lot of jobs and a lot of tempers have been lost over this and people have got
socked in the nose over it.
Yes, you all have got nailed to the park sign too.
Yes, I have heard that.
What is your position on the whole spot out thing?
Were they really threatened?
Are they really threatened?
Are the measures they've taken justified in your opinion?
Well, let me add an added part to this whole thing, which... Remembering you've got to live in Oregon.
Oh yeah, that's sure.
They know how to find me here.
There's an interesting twist to all that, which is the Barred Owl.
The Barred Owl is a bigger, faster, stronger owl.
Sort of a turbo owl, if you will.
If we do nothing, absolutely nothing as humans, the barred owl is probably going to drive this barred owl into extinction.
Either by mating with it and creating hybrids or just simply driving it out to the territory.
So one of the interesting questions, should we be out there as federal wildlife law enforcement officers with our shotguns shooting every barred owl we can to protect one endangered species and thereby create another one?
Actually, there is a little politician in you, isn't there?
That's a basic question, right?
Okay, I tried.
Are the measures taken just fine, in your opinion?
The owl isn't the issue.
The issue is the nature of the habitat.
The owl is simply an indicator species.
That's the crucial issue, that the sense of the forest habitat decline is really the crucial problem.
So in other words, say, use the owls to protect the habitat?
The owls, the canary, and the mine shaft.
You're right, it's a sort of answer.
Whether the owl itself is crucial, whether a hybrid, barred owl is really a better owl to have out there.
Uh, you know, that's more of a philosophical, biology, splitter-joiner question, but I don't think there's any question at all that we're causing damage to our habitat.
And that's something we have to worry about as humans, because that's our fishbowl.
That's where we live.
Right.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Hi, Mike Phoenix?
Yes, sir.
Hi, I'm just watching Species, the climax of Species here.
I haven't seen it yet.
I'm dying to see it.
It is worthwhile.
It's exciting.
I just had a couple of comments.
You had that question on what is the ultimate outcome of someone that's HIV positive.
Yes, sir.
From what I understand, about half of the people, maybe 55%, will ultimately get full-blown AIDS.
About 20 to 25 percent will get the arc.
They'll eventually die a long 20 year death.
with age-related complexes and then there's about 20% it seems and the numbers are going down there
a little bit but it seems to be studying out at about 20% will carry HIV positive but they'll be
asymptomatic. Which may be we need to find out why their immune systems can do that. Yeah. That may
be our key. I hope I'm one of those that will be asymptomatic.
I'm not HIV positive I have checked that out but I wanted to just comment keep up the good work
and glad to hear that there's a lot of people here in Phoenix that support your show.
Oh, it's incredible.
Thank you very much for the call.
I appreciate it.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Good morning.
Hi, Ken.
One question.
Alright, where are you calling from?
Oh, this is Matt from Eugene, Oregon.
Alright.
Oh, okay.
Okay, Ken, how much time and effort does your department spend on tracking down and investigation of the poaching of deer?
Alright.
Oh, okay.
We have 220 special agents out there throughout the United States.
I would guess between duck, waterfowl hunting, and deer, that's probably two-thirds to three-quarters of the work.
Not counting the state fish and game people.
We support all those folks.
All right, that's a big percentage.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Where are you, please?
I'm in Minnesota.
All right.
I was wondering if Mr. Goddard could tell me anything about whirling disease and also... With the fish?
Yeah, with the trout and also what are the chances of it making it over here to Minnesota?
I can't hang out too long.
I've got to go.
I'm not a fisheries biologist.
I don't know the nature of the vector involved.
I'm not one to answer that.
Madison Health Lab would be one.
Do you know what it is?
I've never even heard of whirling disease.
If my memory serves me, I hate to do this on air because I'm not sure I'm right.
Another interesting thing that I've heard recently, Ken, for what it's worth, is that fish that are normally in the South Atlantic, you know, the Caribbean and down in the warmer waters, are massively showing up in the colder waters to the north, and nobody can figure out why.
You're describing a tremendous number of interesting puzzles.
We ought to get you into the service.
I specialize in these.
I really pay attention to them.
There could be a lot of reasons I suppose for that.
I don't know what they are.
I just read the report.
Do you want to get somebody in, if I can say the words, Washington office, who has a broader scale of knowledge on some of these things?
We have a scientific authority, a tremendously good scientist, whom you talk into being on the show, I think you get a broader sense of answers.
I tend to be narrowly focused in what I know or think I know.
Okay, we'll talk about that.
Believe me, we'll talk about that.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Good morning.
Hi, Art.
Hi, Ken.
Where are you?
I'm from St.
Louis.
Yes.
I understand that biological warfare includes man-made viruses.
So why would AIDS or Ebola be exempt from being man-made viruses?
Well, good question.
Thank you.
They're not necessarily, are they?
I don't know.
You can say they're exempt.
The sense I have, and this is strictly my own sense or opinion, is that the complexity is probably beyond us.
I was going to ask you earlier when you made that same statement, have we ever, is it a true statement to say we have never cured a virus?
Actually never cured a virus, I don't know, cured?
Even the common cold?
Well yeah, because a virus is really a pretty simple creature, it's kind of a protein sheath with some genetic material in the middle that attaches on.
Um, hmm.
Can you think of one we've cured?
No.
I don't know how you define the term.
In any mammal?
Yeah.
So I guess the answer is no.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Hello.
Hello.
Hello, where are you, sir?
Uh, Tennessee.
Tennessee.
Turn your radio off, please.
All right, well, we're going to have to leave the line.
We can't survive that way.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Hello.
Yeah, how you doing?
Hi, David.
How you doing, Ken?
Just fine.
I don't know why that guy asked about the MHC complex, because that really has to do with interleukin 1 and 2.
It doesn't have anything to do with pheromones, you know, for the 5-carbon isoprene grouping expect.
Wait a minute, this sounds like a biochemist here.
We need to get him on here.
My brain's just starting to unravel anyway.
What I wanted to ask you about, for the retrovirus like AIDS, AVT is a reverse transcriptidase drug.
No, I don't.
You'd know more about how it targets the polymerase.
No, I wouldn't.
I'm a forensic scientist.
I'm like art.
I read a bunch of stuff.
I don't necessarily understand all I read.
I think you're trying to ask a question that would require a doctor, a physician, a scientist here.
Yeah, I thought you might have a little more insight because of biochemistry.
My biochemistry is back in 1968, I'm afraid.
I'm not sure that would have to start all over again.
Well, I wanted to ask you this because this is just something I had a weird idea.
I'm a pharmacologist.
I always thought that maybe that we might find a viroid or a bacteriophage that would attack the HIV virus.
Yeah, yeah.
And that might be our drug of the future.
Uh-huh.
I wanted to see what you thought of it.
What I remember studying of all that, it sounds like, you know, that it's something that could happen.
I don't know what prevents it from happening.
I have the slightest clue.
How many viruses do we know about, Ken, in history that have, in essence, burned themselves out?
Ebola, for example, burns quickly and then burns out as long as it's not a densely populated area.
I was wondering, did they ever find the sources?
Not to my knowledge.
Yeah.
You know, whether it burned out or went to a stable state and a host waiting for another better host.
It's like it's always sitting there waiting, isn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah, that would be the unnerving part, I think, is determining what its, what would you call it, dormant host might be.
I like that.
There's some scary crime scene work.
Yes.
That's exactly right.
All right.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Good morning.
Hi.
Hi.
Where are you?
I'm calling from Phoenix.
Yes, sir.
This is Rick.
Yes, Rick.
Hey, I have a question or a topic to bring up.
I read several months ago that the way some things are introduced into our United States
here is because of these freighters and shipping that comes across.
Let's say dock in Hong Kong and then what they theorize is that's how the swine flu
got here is that it attaches itself like to the barnacles of ships and then they bring
it across to Singapore.
Although, keep in mind, we seem to be getting the new variations that come across from Asia, so you kind of suspect that there's the old human transport as well.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Fly flu, everybody flies every day.
We get plane after plane from Hong Kong and Tokyo and Bangkok and far eastern points and
so sure.
We know that they're finding new ones in Asia, new swine flu variants, if you will.
And those are the ones they're trying to make, what, inoculations against.
I see.
So it's certainly something to keep us alert.
Sounds like it's one of those unending things.
Yeah, it does.
What factors would be at work, for example, in China?
Is it hygiene?
Is it the number of people?
China, of course, is peopled.
My understanding is it's close interaction with the swine.
I was in China for a while.
As foolish as it may sound, a diplomat.
You were?
I didn't see that on your bio.
Well, it was sort of a strange deal.
I was sent there to help evaluate whether China and Taiwan could enforce the Endangered Species Act, but I'm not sure that our views were going to be the tremendous views.
But I did get to see a lot of China.
It was fascinating.
I did see a lot of people in close around with twine.
Well, I too was in China last year.
Went up into Communist China.
And the density of the population there is unbelievable.
Yeah.
Unbelievable.
And if something were to ever become loose there, that certainly could be generated there, It could certainly move very quickly through an awful lot of people in that country.
Absolutely.
As you indicated, you have Hong Kong, Singapore, a major airline contact point.
As people, we move about.
It's hard to contain something that would be contagious, like a flu virus.
I don't know how you do it.
You see the face masks in Asia a lot.
That's certainly a reasonable attempt.
We don't do that much here.
You're doggone right.
And I'll tell you a story in a moment.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ken Goddard.
Where are you calling from, please?
Rochester, New York.
Rochester.
Hi there.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
I'm sorry.
We lost you about an hour ago.
Right.
That's right.
They started their morning show back there.
Yeah.
But the reason I'm calling is I wanted to know the publisher.
Oh, it's a good question.
Ken, who is your publisher?
Oh, for the TOR Forge.
TOR is a science fiction publisher who has an open mind and they decide to do some mystery thriller types.
Okay.
They're fun to work with.
And what was the name again?
Prey and Wildfire are the wildlife.
No, no, no, the publisher.
Oh, it's TOR.
TOR, T-O-R.
T-O-R, TOR.
All right.
Great.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Take care.
All right.
I'll give you a choice, Ken.
It's really late.
I'm starting to fade out, and I think I do owe the government a full eight hours of being awake tomorrow, or today.
I think you do, too.
We all want our money's worth here.
Yeah.
So off to work, you off to bed, and then off to work.
And Ken, it has been A sincere pleasure having you on the show.
I thoroughly enjoyed myself.
I hope you'll invite me back sometime.
Depends on the topic.
Depends on it, Ken.
Thank you, my friend.
Sleep tight.
Thank you.
All right, that's Ken Goddard.
Whoa, what a guest.
What a show.
If you want copies of it, you can call 1-866-9999.
800-917-4278.
I'll give that one more time.
Beginning right now, it's a four hour program.
1-800-917-4278.
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