Art Bell

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Jan. 21, 1996 - Art Bell

01:40:34

Dreamland with Art Bell - Linda Moulton Howe - 1700 Missing Cattle - How to Survive an Alien Abduction - Michelle LaVigne

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28:08

michelle lavigne

48:55

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
		This is Dreamland.
		Another Sunday evening and another Dreamland underway.
		Hi, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Should be a good one.
		Linda Howe leads off as usual tonight with her report.
		Last week, a full three hours.
		Followed then by Michelle Lean, who's written a book called The Alien Abduction Survival Guide.
		that should be interesting and does my actions regressed uh...
		i believe by John Mack.
		John Mack regressed her.
		And she'll have a lot to tell us about how to survive if you are one of those or worry you might be.
		He'll be snatched up.
		And anyway, we'll get her story.
		So that will comprise Dreamland this evening.
		Fine.
		Now with all of that out of the way, all the way to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
		And here she is, Linda Howe.
		Hello, Linda.
unidentified		Well, hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Can you hear me fine on this phone now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine.
unidentified		Okay, good.
unidentified		Well, remember that town called Waurrika, Oklahoma, and the strange story in August 1994 about 1,700 cows and calves that disappeared from the A.D. Richardson farm?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I recall well, yes.
unidentified		I've had a lot of people who listen to our program write and say, whatever happened to those cows, whatever happened to the mystery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good, you know, because Linda, we talked about this, I think, last week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of these stories break, and they're gigantic stories, and everybody's waiting with bated breath for some follow-up, and there's nothing.
unidentified		Right.
		It's sort of like keeping 12 plates going on those sticks in the carnival.
		That's what I always think that I'm trying to do, and one's wobbling down, and then I finally try to get to it.
		And tonight, I talked with Mrs. Richardson, who she's in her late 60s, and she speaks very, very faintly on the phone, a very dear woman.
		And you would not be able to hear her, but I can report this.
		First, the good news is that the insurance company finally settled their claim on the missing cattle.
		So that's good for the Richardsons.
		But they are as puzzled as the rest of us about what did happen to those cows.
		And it is a fact that law enforcement never did find any of the Richardsons' cows or calves.
		And if it was a rustling operation, no one to date has been arrested and arraigned for the crime.
		Mrs. Richardson told me that she and her husband, who was born and raised in Hua Rica and who has ranched there since 1949, and that reinforces what the bank president told me, that he had known Mr. Richardson all of his life, that they had their pastures next to each other, that he knew that Mr. Richardson had never done anything that would be suggestive of, like, for example, getting some operation to take his cow so he could get insurance.
		It just doesn't add up into this story.
		And after talking with Mrs. Richardson, it's even, I think, an impossible hypothesis.
		She and her husband came to the conclusion that the only thing they could figure out was that somebody came in the night with many semi-trailers and took the cattle all at once.
		And that would suggest an organized, something organized, even though no one has ever been found guilty of this.
		And when I asked her if anyone had talked about the possibility of UFOs taking the cattle, she said very quietly, I've never heard of such a thing.
		So it is still a mystery, but it went at least to the point of the Richardsons not being hurt as badly as it appeared that they were going to be.
		At one point, there was even discussion that they might have to declare bankruptcy because there were so many cows and so much money involved.
		And maybe we will never, ever know what happened in Hua Rica in August of 1994.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's sad.
		It's sad that it concludes that way, but.
		Well, I mean, you would think 1,700 cattle, I mean, absolutely on this earth couldn't disappear.
		I mean, they just couldn't.
unidentified		That's right.
		And we've had eyewitnesses who have described beams of light coming down around animals, single animals, and taking them up.
		And, of course, we're way out on the end of speculation to suggest this, even though it did come up, did something beam these animals up.
		But perhaps what the Richardsons are suggesting is that there was some kind of an organized and professional rustling operation that was able to get in there with semi-trucks and get the animals out of the pasture and then onto the road, maybe to a slaughterhouse, is the reason why they've never been found.
		But so everyone knows it is a mystery that it appears now perhaps will never be solved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess for insurance purposes and their livelihood, it had to get solved more or less in this way.
unidentified		Yep.
		And after talking with her, she is a dear person, and I don't think people realize how they are elderly and they have been there all of their lives.
		And this was something that was shocking to her.
		She said, I just don't want anything like this to happen ever again, and I don't want to have to talk with people about what happened to our cows because we feel that rustlers did it.
		And that was kind of her bottom line.
		But, you know, there's another thing, as Dreamland listeners know, disappearing animals have long been part of the strange reports associated with glowing lights in the sky, especially when the lights have been glowing orange spheres.
		And in the past two weeks, slow-moving orange-glowing spheres have been seen by several people in Cashmere and Wenatchee, Washington, about 80 miles east of Seattle in the Cascade Mountain Range.
		Last Monday night, on January 16th, Mabel Bill Block were driving to their Cashmere home around 10.30 p.m. on a road near the Wenatchee River when they were so startled by three orange glowing lights in the sky that they pulled over to the side of the road.
		We all of a sudden we saw these lights, three of them, right in a row over the river.
		And I said to Bill, did you ever see those before?
		And he said, no.
		I said, well, maybe they strung some lights across there to keep the aircraft from coming down too low or something.
		And then we saw them moving, and there was no noise.
		And we stopped the car.
		Pulled off the highway.
		And when we pulled off the highway, we got out of the car vehicle and watched them.
		And they were about 400 to 500 feet above the river, glowing.
		They were a bright orange glowing object.
		And I could actually see the flickering of the glow, you know.
		Yeah, like it sparkled?
		Yeah.
		You could actually see like it was burning or something, you know, it was sparkling underneath and they were just gliding along.
		No noise.
		It was kind of weird.
		Not a sound.
		As they proceeded to go up above over the hills, we watched them.
		As we turned around, here come three more, two in the front and one kind of in behind in sort of a triangular formation.
		And they proceeded the same way, up above the river and just glowing very silently, not a noise at all.
		Did anybody else driving along the road stop at Perorga like you did?
		Yes, on the opposite side of the road, they were stopped and looking at them also.
		The ones that were going towards Wenatchee, there was two cars that stopped and watched them.
		So these lights caught the attention of at least three different drivers and three different cars, including yourself, to the point that three cars stopped on the side of the road to watch this.
		Yes, yes.
		And they got out.
		And, you know, I would have went across to talk to them, but, you know, it's not all that safe anymore, and I should have probably.
		Also, just about a week or so before, one of the KPQ telev radio stations, one of the announcers saw these three bright orange glowing objects also.
		Chris Lundgren is KPQ Radio's afternoon newsman in Wenatchee, Washington.
		The week before, on January 8th, not far from Mr. and Mrs. Block's sighting, Mr. Lundgren saw orange glowing lights and reported them on the news.
		And in the sky, probably 300 to 400 feet up, under the cloud cover, were three gold, orange balls of light traveling very slowly north to south.
		And they reminded me, they were in a formation that reminded me of Orion's belt.
		Kind of a 1, 2, 3 formation.
		Meaning like a slanted line?
		Yeah, at a bit of an angle.
		So they were traveling, as I said, very slowly, north to south.
		Now, you got under the cloud cover.
		Any sound?
		No sound, none at all.
		They glowed fairly brightly.
		And unfortunately, I didn't have a camera or binoculars or anything of that nature with me.
		So I stood there probably six or seven minutes and watched these things float towards me much, much slower than an aircraft would have.
		And stood there long enough to try to discount what they were.
		Well, I never could.
		They remained glowing orange-yellow balls of light.
		And after I determined that they were separate, because the one in the center of the three seemed to move a bit to the right, and it would move a bit to the left.
		So they identified themselves as being individual objects.
		After probably a good six or seven minutes, they just simply floated up into the cloud cover one at a time.
		Now, the local sheriff's office was contacted, and so was the National Weather Service.
		But so far, those authorities have no explanation for these slow-moving orange-glowing spheres in the night skies over Wenatchee and Kashmir, Washington.
		And Art, I am reminded of a statement made to me by a deputy sheriff out in Elizabeth, Colorado back in around 1980.
		He said that he made the association that when these red-orange glowing spheres of light showed up in the pastures and that he and other deputies were ordered to go out to try to track whatever these phenomena were, that that's when they had animal mutilations.
		And he said when the orange glowing balls went away, so did the mutilation.
		I don't know if there's going to be a link this time, but I'm certainly hoping that our Dreamland listeners up in the West will keep an ear and eye out for any reports locally of any unusual phenomena, whether it's animal mutilations or anything else,
		because these clearly fall into the category of these very odd red-orange or orange-gold spheres that were reported definitely back in the 60s and the 70s when there were so many flaps back then, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, this is going to seem weird to a lot of people, but I think the reason a lot of UFOs are not seen by people is because of a laughably simple reason.
		They don't look up.
		I'm really serious.
		You know, at night, if there's a light moving, then that might get your attention.
		But during the day, we mostly, if you think about it, Linda, look straight ahead.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, or the object of our attention.
		But rarely is it the sky.
		I mean, unless there's a big jet sound or you look up, you don't look up.
		So a lot of people don't see them because they don't look.
unidentified		Well, what is intriguing is whatever the block saw actually seemed to be in formation.
		Three in a sort of triangular pattern.
		Yes.
		And then followed by three more.
		And that area up there, that Cascade Mountain Range that has the, it's really wilderness in between areas that I've gotten reports, everything from Bigfoot to mutilations to lights on either side of that mountain range.
		Who knows what all is up there, but I sure would welcome hearing from any of our listeners who may have seen anything else, Either like this report or the triangles or the rectangles or the discs or boomerangs or whatever else might be strange out there in the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and to do that, they can get hold of you and/or one of your publications by.
unidentified		All right.
		Well, let's start with.
		My address is post office box 538, and that's in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
		And the zip code is 19006.
		My fax number is area code 215-491-9840.
		And the email address is LMH333 at AOL.com.
		For those of you, that means that's America Online, and it's LMH333 at AOL.com.
		And finally, a toll-free 800 number for information about my books and documentaries and possibly to leave a very brief message is 800-707-9993.
		Again, that's 800-707-9993.
		And I will look forward to hearing from you all and also to let the Northwest people, well everybody actually in the United States to know that the 24-hour UFO hotline in Seattle run by Peter Davenport is taking these reports and trying to collate and tabulate.
		And they are at area code 2067223000.
		I think they are really one of the few places trying to keep track of everything that's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're very active.
		Very active.
		All right, Linda, as always, thank you.
		You're a sweetheart.
		We'll see you next week with another report, I presume, from home.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, take care, Linda.
		That's Linda Howe, who is an investigative journalist, actually, an Emmy Award-winning producer.
		And I never knew what happened after that.
		I only remember falling to my knees, covering my eyes, and praying.
		I've never forgotten all that.
		That was 24 years ago.
unidentified		From Elizabeth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, coming up in a moment, the author of the Alien Abduction Survival Guide, with a clear implication that she was abducted, and we'll find out in just a moment, Michelle Levine.
		Michelle was, I guess, regressed by Professor John Mack.
		The foreword to her book is written by Mark Davenport.
		It should be a fascinating interview.
		It's coming up in just a moment.
		You're listening to, of course, Dreamland on a Sunday evening.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		Glad to have you here.
		We'll be right back.
		You've heard me talk about Microtech the Dynamine.
		Michelle, are you there?
		Let's see.
unidentified		There.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you should be there now.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Oh, hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Michelle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm pretty good.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		How about yourself?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm fine.
		Let's see.
		Where are you?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I'm up in New Hampshire.
		Oh, New Hampshire.
		And it's cold?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll bet it is, and it's also very late.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So thank you for getting up to join us.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I wouldn't have missed it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I guess we should begin at the beginning.
		I know your history with John Mack.
		You have many friends who are in the ufology field.
		But how did all this begin for you personally?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm a lifelong abduction experiencer, and my experiences go back to when I was very, very young.
		I think the first one that I really have any recall of, I was lying in a crib looking through the bars of this yellow crib at a being standing in the room staring at me.
		So it's really kind of hard to pinpoint the very beginning of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you the first in your family?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		No, my family has a long line of abductions, so I really hate to point out the different family members because they have a right to their privacy.
unidentified		Yes, of course.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but my family does go generationally back.
		Most people who have abduction experiences find that that runs for them also.
		It tends to be generational run in family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that would lend some credence to the theory that there's some sort of genetic reason for these abductions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, they would be following a family genetically.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		It appears that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much are you able to recall of specifics regarding who abducted you, what kind of surroundings you were in, how it occurred, how they got you out, how they got you back, what you saw during the course of the abduction, that kind of thing?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, I was really surprised to find out when I started making connections with other abductees that I had more conscious recall than a lot of people.
		I'm not sure why that is.
		Maybe it's because I've been keeping journals of this type of stuff since I was about 16.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		It's like remembering a dream when you wake up.
		If you don't write it down, it's gone in an hour or less.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		It really can be that way.
		And so if you get in the habit of writing things down, you tend to remember them better.
		And also, details tend to fill in as you start writing.
		You say, wait a minute, I remember this led to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So give me your best recollection in as much detail, because that's what everybody craves.
		How does it happen?
		How do they get you out?
		What do they do to you?
		What are your surroundings like?
		In other words, give me your most vivid recollection.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Oh, gee, that is really a scuffed question, if you will, because a lot of my recollections deal with things that aren't considered standard.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		When you look at the average UFO story, the average abduction story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I'm not after that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm after your story.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let me think.
		In general, I'm usually picked up from my home, usually in my bedroom.
		Generally, I'm woken up somehow.
		Sometimes they like to pull my hair or say my name, and I wake up, And I find that the room has usually there's a bluish, like almost an electric powder blue.
		I know it's hard to explain the color light in the room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you married, Michelle?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, this is a lot to be going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where is your husband?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, generally, sometimes he is taking part in this, but most of the time he's lying there on the bed and he's totally oblivious to what's going on.
		He's put in a very deep state of sleep.
		And so, and that's very common, actually, for people who have abduction experiences to have a loved one or a roommate or whatever to be totally oblivious of what's happening to the person, to the abductee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, if I woke up and somebody was pulling my hair to wake me up and it wasn't the one next to me, I just don't know what I'd do.
		I guess because it began early for you, you could tolerate it.
		But I don't see how the average person could maintain sanity.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the thing is, is at one point, it sounds where I am now in my understanding and in my experiences, it makes it sound like it was always easy, but it really wasn't.
		I went through periods of being terrified of what's going on, of not understanding why this is happening to me or how this was happening to me.
		I had periods in my life where I was so terrified to even open my eyes at night because if I woke up in the middle of the night, I thought to myself, my God, they're here, they're here, and I would close my eyes really tight and hope that nothing happens.
		And, you know, so it does, you know, I have run the gambit of emotions.
		Right now in my life, I'm not afraid of my encounters, and I'm not afraid of my visitors, if you will.
		So when I'm woken up by them, it's almost like I expect it.
		You know, after it happens to you so long, and there are methods to learn to get over that startle reflex.
		And once you practice those methods and you conquer the startle reflex, then when they come to you, it's not as threatening.
		You're prepared for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I remember how Peter Pam got out his window.
		How did you get out?
		How do you, I mean, how do they get you from point A, your bedroom, to point B, I presume their craft?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, generally, there's usually a beam of light coming from the craft.
		And I can't say that I remember this every single time I'm picked up, but I do remember it quite often.
		The craft is usually somewhere around the area.
		The beam of light that comes into the room attaches to the craft.
		And when you step into the beam of light, you just sort of float towards it.
		And you float relatively quickly.
		You pass through solid objects.
		And I know that's hard to believe, but you just pass right through walls and windows.
		And you appear in the craft standing on a piece of the seems to close up underneath you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, you listen to Linda Howe, I'm sure, who was on the air prior to yourself.
		And there have been a million reports of cattle mutilations, ductions.
		And in almost every case, I mean, there have literally been hundreds of witnesses to cows going up in beams of light.
		So maybe whether it's a person or a cow or whatever else they want, those reports seem fairly consistent.
		You know, the beam of light for transportation.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
		So there you are.
		You arrive at their craft.
		Then what?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, then usually I'm brought into a small room, an examination-like room.
		First off, there are no corners on these crafts.
		They're all rounded.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're all rounded.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're all rounded.
		The doors seem to be like pocket doors.
		They sort of slide into the wall, kind of like on Star Trek.
		Oh, that's a bad analogy because people say, well, you've seen it on Star Trek.
		But not really, because the doorway is even a rounded.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, it's a seamless kind of architecture.
unidentified		Right.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		It's almost like a, it just always reminded me of a hot tub, kind of like all molded, like in one big piece.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		And even the benches, like in this waiting room that sometimes people are in, even the benches are just molded in one piece off the wall.
		But usually I'm brought into an examination room right away.
		The examination room that I go into most of the time is probably, oh, I would say it's probably maybe 9 by 15.
		It's longer than it is wider.
		It has a catwalk around the top with a black railing.
		The room is very, very white, very brightly lit.
		There's a table in the middle of the room.
		There's a panel on at least one wall.
		There's a panel.
		There's a smaller panel on another wall.
		On the bigger paneled wall, there seems to be writing and symbols on it.
		There are golden knuckled, silver-type, silver metallic-looking instruments on a tray that comes molding off of this panel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you say symbols, have you seen the I-beams, Michelle, from the Sikuro crash?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I have seen them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Those kinds of symbols?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Not exactly.
		Those symbols are much more simple.
		The symbols on the beam are much more simple than the symbols that I've seen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen what are called, well, you've seen Chinese characters.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would that be closer?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Closer in complexity, but not necessarily in form.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is good.
		I asked for detail, and you're giving me exactly what I wanted, a lot of detail.
		And your recollection seemed very sharp.
		Now, so there you are.
		They get you on an examination table or do you hop up there by yourself?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, it depends on what kind of a mood I'm in, actually.
		Usually, though, I know that if I just go along with it and get it over with, it's a lot easier than fighting it and ending up with a headache.
		So generally, I'll walk into the room and I'll sit on the table.
		Lots of times there's a memory lapse.
		I'll be in my bedroom.
		I'll know they're in the room.
		They'll wake me up.
		I'll see the light.
		Next thing you know, I'm on the table.
		So sometimes I'm not given the choice.
		Let me think.
		Let me see.
		So then when I'm put on the table, generally the taller being, a lot of people have like a taller being in events.
		You know, just the little grays, they have the taller gray also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I was going to ask you to describe the beings, but I kind of want to know back to the room?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what do they do to you?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, depending on the typical abduction that happens with me, I generally get sort of an examination from head to toe.
		And I know this sounds kind of silly, but they hold this thing over my body that looks very much like a tiny miniature model of the Sydney Opera House.
		You know, kind of like shells inside of shells.
unidentified		Really?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know it sounds really strange, but that's pretty much the best description.
		Unfortunately, I don't have all the right words for some of these things that they have.
		Sure, I know.
		But they pass that over my body, and I don't exactly know what it does.
		I was told once that it's aligning the energies of my body.
		Whether or not that's what it's really doing or not, I would have to trust that they're telling me the truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you, by the way?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		For the most part, I've learned that a lot of the things that they've told me do seem to be the truth.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		So I do tend to trust them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are people who say they lie.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		Yeah.
		And, you know, they do play head games on people.
		And so I know that sometimes people who are experiencing things that seem like lies, when they get these partial memories and everything, as they start to fill them in, they realize that there was some sort of test or that they were some sort of event.
		And also the ETs have this really silly sense of humor that some people just don't get.
		So when the ETs play a joke on them, I know I'm going to get mail on this one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, wait, wait, this is very interesting.
		Describe their sense of humor.
		You said silly.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Do you mean silly as in dry or just silly as in camp or well let's just let's just put it this way one of the favorite things that they like to do to people is they like to return you to your home and put you in your bed, cover you with your blankets, and then push your blankets, tuck them in underneath your mattress so tight that you can't barely breathe, that you can't move.
		If you have a spouse or even a dog living with you, they'll put the spouse or the dog on top of the blankets to make them even tighter, okay?
		And then they'll look at you and say, sleep tight.
		Now they think it's a riot, okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And maybe they think that's human bed etiquette.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Who knows, you know?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		But the people who it's happening to, if they don't realize that it's a joke, you know, they wake up the next morning, like, my God, what did they do that to me for?
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Michelle.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		They have this wonderful thing they like to do with me.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		They wake me up in the middle of the night, and I find out I have my head in a pillowcase.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Michelle, hold tight.
		When we come back, I want you to describe the beings themselves.
		That's very valuable, and as descriptive as you can be about them, we'll be right back.
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unidentified		Aren't you?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I would say that the small ones average from probably about the height of a doorknob that's like three feet or so to maybe close, maybe a little bit up to four feet or so around there.
		And the taller ones who are noticeably thinner than thinner and I think they're even a little bit longer than the shorter ones tend to maybe go from like four and a half feet.
		I've seen them probably up to about five feet.
		I'm 5'4, so I'm just sort of judging by my own height.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Gosh.
		So they come in all kinds of varieties and sizes.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, they come in an assortment.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's like saying, I think the same question, if somebody said, so what does the average human look like?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, right, my question is, would you think that you are seeing different species, varieties of the same species?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		The same species, different, maybe different sides of the same species.
		Also, to call them grays is really not the best thing either because though the ones that I usually see are sort of an ashen pallor type to them, like sort of a grayish color, I have seen them that have been sort of blue, have sort of a bluish hue to their skin, yellow hue.
		I've had people tell me about golden colored ones, even about ones that seem sort of red colored, and someone even told me about bright purple ones.
		But this is one of the things I address in my book.
		You know, just because I am calling them grays, if someone else was having an encounter seeing them primarily as tan, it doesn't mean that they are different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the way things go these days, they'd probably want to be known as Pleiadian grays.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Politically correct, are we?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		So, you know, the bottom line is, Michelle, you have been abducted all your life.
		And you've written a book which tells people how to survive the experience.
		And that's really what I want to get to, and I'm sure it's really what you want to get to, because there are a lot of people out there, Michelle.
		They call me all the time.
		They claim they're abducted.
		And a lot of them are absolutely terrified.
		I take it that you can relieve some of that fear.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I would hope so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or help them be comfortable with it.
		Or maybe even help them prevent it.
		That's a question I don't want you to answer just yet.
		I'll ask it when we come back.
		Stay right there and rest.
		We'll be back to you after the news, which comes next on most of these affiliates.
		And then more of Michelle Levine and how to survive an alien abduction.
		Stay right there.
unidentified		Stay right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Again, all your life you've been abducted.
		How many times, would you guess?
		Would you put a number to it?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it would be really hard to put a number to it, probably in the hundreds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's a lot.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, my abductions, different times in my life, I either had them, I went through periods of having very intense, very close abductions to having abductions that were sparser.
		When I was in my early 20s, my abductions seemed to be maybe four or five times a year, and then towards my late 20s, they started speeding up.
		So sometimes it's night after night after night after night, and other times I might not have encounters for months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you know about what they want with you?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a really difficult question because there seems to be an awful lot.
		One side of the abduction phenomenon that very few people touch on and that you seldom ever see in the media is that there is a part of the abduction phenomenon that is beyond the medical testing.
		There's actually a community set up in the ET environment where abductees interact with other abductees in sometimes their classes, lectures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean like abductee support groups?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Kind of like that, only also sort of like a UFO high is the way I kind of put it, where people are taught things, they interact with other humans and other ETs.
		And so a lot of my abductions have a lot to do with this experience beyond the medical experiences.
		A lot of times when I'm picked up, I'm asked to teach classes where I have a group of people and I'm teaching them one concept or another.
		Other times after a medical exam, I may be asked to attend a lecture or something.
		So there seems to be an awful lot of learning going on and an awful lot of teaching going on.
		The ETs seem to really...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If there's a lot of learning and a lot of teaching, then you ought to be able to more or less answer my question, and that is, what do they want with us?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, it seems that somehow, if you believe everything that's going on, if you believe, now, and I want to qualify this by saying I know some abductees who are even experiencing this who think it's all some sort of head gain.
		Personally, I don't.
		Personally, I think there's something to it.
		It seems that the ET somehow are here because the earth is going to go through some changes very soon.
		We're talking some sort of consciousness raising, and they are somehow going to take part in this and are assisting us in order to prepare us for this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's about the last thing I wanted to hear you say.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, that is one of the things that that is one of the things that's coming up in a lot of these classes.
		A lot of these classes are being taught about, you know, the nature of eternity and things like that.
		There also seems to be some sort of, like you mentioned before, some sort of genetic purpose in all of this.
		I know people who really believe that somehow the ETs are going to conquer our world and replace our human race with the ET race.
		I don't think that they're going to do that if they are in the way these people believe they are because they could have done it very efficiently and a lot earlier than they are.
		But it could be, and I do have a feeling that maybe there is some sort of intermixing going on that is eventually going to create a race that isn't exactly us, but isn't exactly them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the traditional theory, I believe, is that they have weakened themselves genetically, their entire genetic pool, and they need us to strengthen that.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that the one you tend to believe?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that that's a piece of it.
		I think that there are so many pieces to this puzzle that none of us are getting all the pieces.
		Because if any one of us had all the pieces, we would have put this together already.
		That's a good point.
		And so a lot of us are getting different pieces of this puzzle.
		And some people are so covetant of their own piece that they don't want to look at anyone else's piece.
		So they're ignoring the other information that they're getting.
		As a matter of fact, this was an issue for me recently when I took over as editor of Contact Forum magazine.
		The contact in Contact Forum was an issue for me.
		What is contact?
		What denotes contact?
		Being a physical abductee, being a person who has had physical interaction with non-human intelligence, not just race, but with other, or seemingly other races, I can qualify that one too.
		Having these contacts, it's easy for me to say contact is walking on a spaceship, touching an alien, talking to an alien.
		This is contact, okay?
		Oh, yes.
		But there are other pieces to this puzzle, pieces that I have no concept of understanding and that I could not explain to you.
		Pieces that I haven't even heard of yet.
		I mean, there are phenomenons.
		Look at Linda with the cattle mutilation.
		This is a piece of the puzzle nobody likes to look at.
		I know.
		Okay, especially abductees.
		They say, God, if they do that to cattle, could they do that to me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have they ever?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		According to Linda, and I just interviewed her for contact forum last month.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		She said no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I meant you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have they ever physically hurt you?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Physically.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		They have done things to me that have caused me pain, but I have not had any long-lasting effects.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You sound like my dentist.
		No, no.
		How much pain?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Enough pain that I've been in tears.
		Often, though, I found that when I'm doing something that hurts me, if I tell them they're doing something that hurts me, if I tell them that it's hurt, they stop the pain.
		They might not stop the procedure, but they do something to numb me from not feeling the pain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's better than my dentist massage.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I'm cool to her.
		She's very nice.
		She's a pain-free dentist, and very nice lady.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Look, it's always good to be nice to your dentist because you're going to have to go back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, that's well said, yes.
		All right.
		Suppose I, at my late age, now I'm 50, suppose I were to begin to be abducted.
		Could I do anything about it?
unidentified		First of all, could I prevent it?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, the thing is, and this is an answer that not many people are going to like, especially people who are experiencing this.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I have yet to find one thing that people say works to prevent an abduction that actually does prevent the abduction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard of a million things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Run video recorders all night.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		People I know who've tried that have sleptwalked in the middle of the night and shut off their video recorders.
		I know people who, or the video recorder mysteriously unplugs itself or the battery runs decades, you know.
		I know people who believe that you leave a TV on, they can't bother you.
		You sleep with an amethyst around your neck, they can't touch you.
		You put salt on your windowsills, they can't get by it.
		I mean, I've heard all of them.
		And I've tried several of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or you have.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		And at some points, I've tried them even just to see if they've worked.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Do you know what I'm saying?
unidentified		Yes.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Like, I had a dear friend who insisted, absolutely insisted, that she knew how to stop abductions, that if you hummed on this certain key, I believe it was the A above middle C, and if you hummed on that certain key, there was no way that they could touch you.
		Okay?
		that somehow it changed the frequency of their bodies and they couldn't get near you.
		Oh, yes, I tried it, and I found that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did it appeal to their silly sense of humor?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, I found that if you hum for a half hour, you get a sore, dry throat.
		And it doesn't stop an abduction.
		But subjectively, in subjective reality, it may have worked for someone in the past.
		Say someone has been picked up by aliens, and they're on an examining table, and they start humming on this note, and the ETs are becoming annoyed because this person just won't stop this annoying sound and stun them.
		And the person has put out coal, and so the last thing they remember is lying on his table humming.
		The next thing they remember, they're lying in their bed.
		They have no conscious memory of what transpired in the middle.
		They don't remember what they're doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if that's good or bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe the moral of that story is it's good not to annoy an alien.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		Maybe it was good to annoy them in his case because he might have been very pleased that the next thing he remembered was being home.
		In his subconscious reality, maybe humming worked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'm going to ask you now a serious question.
		I've been joking around a lot, but for somebody who's being abducted, if it can't be prevented, and it sounds like your answer said there's really no way that you found, then what advice do you give to an abductee?
		How do they survive the experience?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, the first thing they have to realize is that they don't have to be a victim, okay?
		Many times when you find out this is happening to you, especially if you get involved with the media blitz and a lot of the scary stuff that they put on TV and things, right away you say to yourself, oh my God, I'm a victim.
		I'm being used, I'm being abused.
		How can I stop this?
		And that's very natural, okay?
		But the next step of feeling victimized is saying, oh, I can't do anything to stop this, and you start to have a low self-esteem.
		First thing you have to do is say, I don't have to be a victim anymore.
		The next thing that you have to do is you have to start taking control of your situation.
		And it's very important.
		And I know that some people are going to say this sounds silly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but I've got to stop you already.
		You know, that sounds so touchy-feely to say, I don't have to be a victim.
		But if you cannot stop the abductions, then you are going to be a continuing victim of abduction.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you, in one reality, okay, okay.
		Granted, that is that, okay?
		But you have to take the next step.
		The one step alone doesn't work, okay?
		And that's why if we were just at one step, I could have put out a pamphlet, not a book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so I'm not a victim.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so then the next thing you have to do is you have to, first of all, you have to start understanding that your emotions are going to run in cycles, okay?
		And you have to start understanding your cycles of emotions.
		I'm trying to nutshell this for you very quickly.
		You have to try to take control of your fear in the times when you're fearful so that in the times when your fear, because these things run in cycles, the times when you're not feeling as anxious, you can do yourself some good.
		That's the time when you start to work on things.
		And this might sound silly to some, but you have to resolve in your mind that you're going to talk to the alien, okay?
		Or to the whatever they are.
		I hate to use the word alien in the pure sense of the word, because who knows if they're extraterrestrial, extraterrestrial, extraterrestrial, or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to use the word beings.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you've got to communicate with them.
		This is done.
		You obviously have done it.
		Is it done mentally, or I take it it is done with telepathy?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		It can be done either way.
		I mean, if you talk, they can hear you.
		You can think to them.
		Obviously, it usually starts with telepathy because when you wake up to find these beings sitting in your room, if you don't startle, which is a common human response is to startle, and this is pickup anxiety.
		Most people actually fear that moment of pickup.
		Do you know how many abductees say to me, if they knock on the door, maybe I go, you know, but why do they have to take me like this, okay?
		So when they get you in that position where they startle you, the best thing you're probably going to be able to do is to think to them, okay, let's talk, or use some sort of words to open a dialogue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do they speak back to us aloud?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, it's not common, but it does happen.
		That's one of the myths that they only talk with telepathy.
		They actually do also make sound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They do.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		And I'm not sure that all of them know how to talk English.
		I couldn't tell you that.
		The ones that I have heard talk English, their voices seem very nasally, and they sound rather mechanical when they speak, but like they're having a difficult time pronouncing some of the words.
		But I think the myth that they don't talk with sound at all comes from the fact that they do seem to prefer telepathy.
		And also, when they do speak verbally, their mouths don't really move.
		It's almost like a small quiver on the slit of their mouth.
		They don't articulate with their lips the way we do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then I wonder how it really is possible to discern the difference between hearing something in your mind and hearing it with your ear.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		You know, I thought about that myself at some point.
		Because if you're half asleep and you're dazed and they come walking in the room and you hear and they contact you, it's harder.
		But if you are in a situation where you've been awake for a little while and you're more conscious of what's going on, it's a lot easier because you hear it inside.
		It passes by the ears.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to ask you a very hard question, Michelle.
		Okay.
		Don't take offense.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		No, I won't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I've had them all, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, good.
		Then you won't mind this one, I hope.
		How do you know you're not crazy as a loon?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I've asked myself that question, too.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		And I'll be honest with you, most people who start exploring this, and myself included, wished at one point that we were crazy as loons because crazy is something you can go see a doctor for and get treatment for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In your case, I know you went to John Mack, and he is a head of the field.
		And John's a wonderful person.
		So you went to him and told him about all of this, I'm sure.
		And he did what?
		Did he regress you?
		Did he talk to you?
		Did he interview you?
		How did he handle your case?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, I was pre-screened by several people before I even met John.
		I was screened by the Mouthline director of my state.
		I was screened by one of John's associates three times, which were off taped and sent to John.
		And eventually, I had an interview with John.
		And during that interview was when he decided that we should probably work on a regression.
		He had asked me to bring a list of maybe three or four questions that I had that he could probably hit on during the regression.
		And I brought him a list of 51.
		I was a little anxious at that time.
		But I'd like to go back to your question about how do I know that I'm not crazy?
		There are physical things that happen dramatically.
		Wake up in someone else's clothing.
		I've had times where I've gone to bed.
		It is a joke in my family.
		I write my name.
		Whenever I have a nice nightgown that I want to keep, I write my name on the tag.
		I know it sounds silly, but I have had times where I have gone to bed in my clothing that I've owned and woken up the next morning with something that I've never seen in my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would be very disturbing.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		It is very disturbing, and it also is something that you really can't do psychosomatically, I don't believe.
unidentified		You have children, how many?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I have three children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are they all yours and your husband's?
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you don't think they ever impregnated you?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I didn't say that.
		I have three children here on earth that are mine and my husband.
		I don't know how many times.
		I couldn't give you an exact number of how many times I may have been implanted with some sort of.
unidentified		Well, there's a reason for that question because other abductees have actually been introduced to what they surmise to be their automated land.
unidentified		Just relax, Michelle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That for a lot of people is a mystery.
		For example, what's going on in Bosnia?
		One way to find out is to get a good radium.
		Plus, whether it's earthquakes in the west, flooding in the Midwest and east now, snowstorms ought to have an emergence.
unidentified		From the Kingdom of Not, you're here in Dreamland with our bell.
		To participate in the program, call toll free, 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
		Or the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, and my guest is Veteran Abductee Michelle Levine.
		I say veteran, it's been going on all her life, literally hundreds of times.
		And so she finally settled in and wrote the Alien Abduction Survival Guide.
		And that's kind of what we're talking about.
		I've got a number of interesting questions, many of them coming in by facts.
		Kind of, some of them sort of silly like she said the alien's humor is on occasion.
		At least I consider them that way, but we will nevertheless ask them.
		In a moment, how many of you remember a time, Ell Levine?
		You are a veteran, aren't you?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I guess so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess so.
		All right.
		These are kind of silly questions I wouldn't think to ask, but two of my facts have.
		Michelle, what if you wanted to be abducted?
		What if you've never been abducted?
		You feel left out.
		You want the scientific adventure.
		You want the thrill, the scare.
		Is there any way to actually go about inviting abduction?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I really couldn't tell you.
		I never really had to give it much thought, to be honest with you.
		And I don't really know anyone who has found a way.
		Aside from the occasional people who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, if you will, it seems that abductees generally are from genetic lines of abductees, or sometimes people who marry into a genetic line that has abductions going on with it will start being abducted by association.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has it ever been an official cause for divorce that you know of?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Officially, I don't know.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if it would be actually officially, but I have seen some marriages break up over it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can imagine, actually.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		But I've also seen some marriages actually make it through the struggle and come out better on the other side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Could you ask your guest, this is a tough one, if she's ever bothered to document for the rest of it something along the line of, say, proof.
		Proof of alien existence, possibly videotaping the event, proof of her abductions, like grabbing some sort of instrument from the examining table.
		And, you know, it really, if it's true, is the most important story the human race will ever realize.
		So it is a good question.
		Have you ever tried to grab something or obtain good, hard proof?
		Or do you have it?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I don't.
		I have, in the past, tried to do things like that, and I never got away with it.
		Lots of times I wasn't doing it for proof to the world because I gave up trying to prove things to the world a long time ago.
		I found that it's not important that so-and-so and his brother-in-law believe me.
		It's important that I believe me.
		I tried to at times when I was trying for my own verification, for my own, you know, I hope I'm not crazy, I tried to get my hands on things.
		I've tried to do things like when they've taken off my wedding ring, which I cannot take off because I've unfortunately gained some weight since I got married, but they managed to get it off Of me, I tried putting it on the wrong hand, things like that.
		They have a wonderful way of playing games with people where they will tell you: you can have this piece of metal, or you can have this book, or you can have this whatever.
		Like, this metal doesn't exist on your planet.
		You can take it home to Earth, and you're going to be the one who's going to prove to the world that we exist.
		Yeah, and they'll do that to people.
		But, you know, the person usually is just so excited.
		I'm going to be the one and I'm going to show the world and I finally have proof.
		And then right before they bring you home, they tell you, well, I'm sorry, plans have changed.
		We can't let you do this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see, there you are.
		There you are, Michelle.
		William Sapphire would say that probably makes them a bunch of congenital liars.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, the interesting thing about this particular scenario is that generally they'll bring the piece back to the person and say to the person, I changed my mind.
		You can have it again.
		And they'll keep doing this back and forth until the person finally says, forget it.
		I don't even want to see that thing.
		Get it away from me, okay?
		And until they really frustrate the person.
		And sometimes, I mean, these head games don't always make sense.
		I'll admit that.
		I know that when I've asked about them, usually I get an answer like, you have to know deception when you see it, or things like that.
		Whether or not those answers are valid, you know, it's hard to say.
		Often we get answers like, you know the answer to that, and that's very frustrating.
		That's more frustrating than the games themselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it really sounds like they do play a lot of games.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, you ask your guest, and I don't know why after what I just heard, but what exactly the aliens have told her about our future and what part they will take in it?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Now, that is a very big question.
		And again, that's another question where I find that either your experiences are such that you believe it, or your experiences are such that you say, well, this is ridiculous and I'm not going to believe it.
		And abductees do differ on whether or not they believe the messages that they're given by the ETs.
		In general, the ETs do have a habit of showing people a reaction test, if you will, showing people visions of incredible earth disasters and catastrophes.
		Recently, though, interestingly enough, when I was younger, many, many abductees were shown visions of nuclear war, nuclear war, nuclear war, nuclear war, over and over and over again.
		They would make you practice, they would put you in a scenario where you actually thought that you were in this nuclear war and you were trying to get away and you were trying to be safe.
		Or they would show you the world blowing up and always reminding me of the Gary Larson cartoon with the aliens on the moon going, ooh, because the world's all covered in mushroom clouds.
		But they would show you these terrible visions of horrible things happening to the Earth.
		And lately, in the last four or five years, the nuclear disaster stuff has sort of shifted from nuclear war to nuclear accidents, sort of like an earthquake happening near a nuclear power plant and there's radiation and fallout and all this stuff.
		You know, there's a lot of theories as to why they're showing us this stuff.
		I know that different researchers have different theories on it and different abductees have different theories on it.
		It seems that they're preparing us for something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Either that or trying to show us something that can and should be avoided or maybe it can somehow be avoided after all, at least up until this moment, no massive nuclear war.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Right, but then again, if they really wanted to do that, why aren't they showing this to the political leaders?
		But we don't know if they're not showing it to the political leaders, because if they were abducted, they're not going to come forward with it.
		But still, abductees tend to have what I call the be-prepared reaction sort of built into them because of these visions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, anybody who has control over nuclear weapons should have such dreams.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Michelle, let us begin taking a few phone calls.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, everybody.
		For Michelle, the only number not given out is our East of the Rockies number, which is 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033 East of the Rockies.
		Let us proceed.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michelle Levine.
		Hi.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Alright.
unidentified		This is Bonnie from Clear Lake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Bonnie.
unidentified		I like you guys.
		I'd like to ask her, when you ask her about her kids, I'd like to know why she doesn't definitively get some DNA tests and prove, you know, whether they belong to her and her husband.
		All right, well.
		And if she has a particular type, blood type, I'd like to know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		Well, I did ask definitively whether they were the children of yourself and your husband.
		You said yes.
		So I don't feel inclined to probe beyond that.
		I don't care whether you've had blood tests or not, but I would like to know what I meant to ask some time ago, and that was whether you have ever seen a child that you believe may have been yours.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		In the ET's company, I assume you mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
unidentified		Yes.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I have been shown children several of different ages.
		Often, often on, I've been told to hold an infant, and I was told that it was mine, and it was clear that the infant wasn't completely human.
		Several times I've had a child, I would say probably about four or five years old, let out to me, and I was told that the child was mine.
		I know that one time when I did ask, because I have memories of having procedures that people call fetal extractions done, I finally asked Hittar, who is one of the great-eyed names, that's the name I have for him, Hittar.
		I asked him how many children I do have in their presence, and this was three years ago.
		He told me 63.
		I don't know.
		I can honestly tell you, I don't have any memory of 63 children, so I don't know.
		Oh, no.
		Not unless you were doing your income taxes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good luck on that claim.
		Listen, what did Professor John Mack, because he is so well respected, and people are probably sitting out there right now saying, ooh, what a crackpot.
		But Professor Mack is anything but at Harvard, and he extensively regressed you and interviewed you.
		What did he conclude?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I honestly don't know if John has made any definite conclusions.
		I know that he is still looking Into the subject.
		He's doing some very fascinating work in South Africa right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I mean, about your regressions, your stories.
		Did you get the impression he believed you or thought you a crackpot?
		I mean, you got through all his screeners.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, and through the regression, and I keep in touch with John to this day.
		I attended support group meetings.
		I work with Pierre.
		I send them an awful lot of referrals.
		I speak to them on the phone often.
		I went to their Christmas party.
		He really doesn't treat me like I'm a crackpot.
		He treats me with respect.
		He asked me, when he has different things.
		As a matter of fact, the film of some interviews he did in South Africa, he asked me to view them.
		I have to qualify that by saying not just me.
		There were several people there.
		But I feel that John has always treated me with respect and that if I were a crackpot in John's eyes, that he probably would have let me go the way of several other people who have come into his company.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
		All right.
		With that in mind.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		But I really, honestly, at this point, I'm so beyond the point of worrying if people think I'm a crackpot or not.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I'm saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm just trying to ask what I know would be in the mind of the people in the audience.
		Okay.
		And it's been with you all your life.
		They're just introduced to you tonight.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Michelle Levine.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Mark in Honolulu, and I'm online with the IRC people.
unidentified		And one of the questions we'd like to know is what kind of changes in Michelle's spirituality has occurred from the beginning to now relevant to her experiences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's a good question.
		And let's even expand it.
		Are you of any specific religion, Michelle?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Not any longer.
		I was raised Catholic, and my family had several religious changes into different Christian religions as I was growing up, none of which I followed very closely.
		And as I got more and more into the understanding of my own experiences, I started asking harder questions.
		You know, it's not easy to accept the box answers when you've seen outside the box.
		And you realize that, wait a minute, this is probably not the complete truth that they're selling me here.
		And you start to ask the bigger questions.
		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, with regard to your spirituality then, would you say it has increased as a result of all this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Changed or what?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		My spiritual life has grown in incredible dimensions as part of the ongoing experience that I'm having, not only with the ETs who I perceive as small and gray, but also with other ETs who seem very humanoid.
unidentified		And I think what happens is that when you in creation,
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		it really kind of gives you a sense of awe, kind of, you know, changes your perspective of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Michelle, is it your view that the proof, if there ever is to be any, of aliens or beings, whatever they are, will come from the spiritual realm, or will it possibly ever come from the scientific community?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I think the scientific, but my personal opinion right now is that the scientific community has had some proof for a while, and pretty much their hands are tied, I think.
		But I think that when the proof does come, it's not going to come in a way that anyone's expecting it.
		I really couldn't tell you.
		I don't think we're ever going to see a UFO land on the White House lawn.
		I don't think that they're going to fly over the Super Bowl and knock the blimp down or anything like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, with their recent experiences of the White House, the lawn, and all the rest of it, I'd say it'd be very inadvisable to land there.
		They're not happy with that.
		All right, Michelle, hold on just a moment.
		We'll be right back to you.
		My guest is Michelle Levine, the book she has written, The Alien Abduction Survival Guide.
		And yes, we will tell you how to get it.
		If you suffer from headaches, neckaches, sports...
		Michelle, let's go east of the Rockies and say you're on with Michelle.
		Hi.
unidentified		George, there's one little quick thing I want to say.
		Do you recall the spaceships that they were seeing in Korea here about two weeks ago?
		Yes, sir, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Remember Standale when you interviewed him?
unidentified		And one of the things he said the first spacecraft that he worked with and designed had a hole in the middle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do recall very vividly, and I am dying to get my hands on some of the Korean photos.
unidentified		Well, he mentioned that that was the first type of spacecraft that he designed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you what.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When we get a photo, we'll talk to Stan, and we'll find out if that's one of them.
unidentified		Okay, and I have two questions to ask her.
unidentified		All right, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, by the way?
unidentified		Double Kirkie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		She stated that she gave classes, and there were people in the classes that she had taken also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Number one, I'd like to know the gender makeup of the people, and number two, I'd like to know what ethnic types there were.
unidentified		Were they from all around the world, or were they from just this general world?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, what a really...
		What about the other humans, Michelle?
		A blend, a mix, all white folks?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, as far as the gender makeup goes, I've taught classes with mixed genders in the class.
		I've taught classes, like one class I did recently was all boys who were teenagers.
		Another class might be all older people.
		Generally, though, you usually see the genders are mixed.
		I've seen, as far as races go, I've seen African American, white.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've seen...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you teach a class, you're teaching human beings on an alien craft, correct?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Usually, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I take it that you are teaching them the basics of what's in your book.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		In some cases, yeah.
		The ideas behind coping with their abduction experiences, between getting control of their fear, getting control of their anger, how to maintain the sense of control, how to relieve the stress and things like that.
		Yes, I do teach that.
		Another thing that I seem to teach a lot about is...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And don't you worry that you are a tool for them in calming people, in getting people to accept this abduction?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever given that any thought?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		You know, I have thought about that in the past, but you know what I've noticed is that if this were something that were bad for people, then you think that you'd see their lives start to fall apart as they learn to work with this and as they learn to handle this, that it would start taking over them and you'd start to see them deteriorate physically, mentally, spiritually.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		And actually, just the opposite happens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they invigorate.
		They grow spiritually.
		All right, Michelle, hold on.
		It's break time.
		We'll try to concentrate more on the phones when we come back.
		My guest is Michelle Levine.
		She has written the Alien Abduction Survival Guide.
		And she has the experience to know what she's talking about.
unidentified		more in a moment Solar power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to read you something.
		I think you'll find this intriguing from Sacramento, California.
		Michelle, I've had several experiences with ETs.
		One incident that remains unsolved in 1978 is I had a dream I was being examined by an E.T. Believe it or not, after that, my wife began producing milk.
		She went to the doctor two weeks later, only to find that she was not pregnant at that time.
		Shortly thereafterwards, the milk stopped.
		Weird, huh?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it's pretty common.
		Abduction experience, there's his wife obviously must have had an abduction experience to find out that they're lactating after an experience.
		The theory is that they could have been carrying a fetus for the ETs, and after the fetus was taken, just like in a normal pregnancy after the baby is born or just before the mother starts lactating to provide sustenance to the baby, it could also be that the hormones after a fetus is delivered are such that the woman starts to lactate for several days after.
		It actually happens to many women, and many women are sort of embarrassed to talk about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, well, I can imagine, sure.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michelle Levine.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Nashville.
unidentified		Nashville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
unidentified		Yes, I'd like to ask Michelle.
		Michelle, how long were you gone pretty much the same amount of time?
		I've got two questions.
		Were you gone pretty much the same amount of time every time, or was it a different amount of time?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, it really varies from time to time.
		It's hard to say when you're sleeping.
		I mean, if I go to bed at 10 o'clock or whatever, and I get up at 6 the next morning and I had an event during the night, I really probably wouldn't be aware of how long I was gone, whether it was one hour, two hours, three hours, whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or whether the time spent there was relevant to the time spent away.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		That's a very good point.
		Often the time isn't relevant to the time spent away.
		Other times when I was a child, I had a missing time where my parents had actually called the police looking for me and a cousin of mine and a cousin's friend who had all gone to play together, the three of us.
		We were playing in the backyard with this cousin's friend.
		It was morning.
		It was about 10 in the morning.
		We were playing.
		We were playing, rolling around the grass and sitting there.
		And I remember hearing silence.
		And I know that sounds strange, but it just got so silent that it made your ears feel funny.
		Looking up and seeing this silvery craft coming towards us.
		And the next thing you know, I'm looking at a dark night sky.
		And it was past 8.30 that night, and we had been gone the whole time.
unidentified		All right, Color?
		Okay, would you do me a favor?
		Yep.
		Okay, and this is not necessarily a credibility question, but then again, it may be how everybody takes it.
		But would you hum the A above high C?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		No, I probably couldn't hum the A above high C very well.
		When I had been doing it, I have a piano.
		When I had been doing it, I practiced for several days against the piano.
		As a matter of fact, when I actually was trying and it didn't work, I changed the key, the pitch of the key a couple of times in case I am stone deaf or something or stone deaf.
unidentified		Tone deaf.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stone deaf, I think it is.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Tone deaf.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		There we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a good point.
		And it's a good point.
		And I guess you wouldn't really have any way of knowing for sure whether you had it right.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		You know, going a half tone up, a half tone down from it.
		But really, I did practice with the piano, you know, hitting the piano and listening to the sound of the piano and matching it and everything.
		And it was a lot of trouble to go through to test a particular theory, but it's something that you do.
		You get obsessed with these little things.
		You want to find out, you know.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's go west of the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Michelle Levine.
		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, hello.
		Good evening, Mr. Bell, to you and your guest.
		Where are you?
		I am down here in the San Joaquin Valley, Tresno, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And KMJ, yeah, the Big 580.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
unidentified		Okay, if I can make a couple of quick comments and a question for your guest?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, I've had the experience, I wouldn't say there's an objection.
		This is approximately two or two and a half years ago.
		I had the experience of being elevated and then turned on my side and examined by somebody or something with an instrument that was shaped like a gun or thereof.
		And they shot something through my abdomen.
		That was the end of that dream.
		And then second, here last year, Ms. Levine, I saw an object.
		It was rather large.
		It was triangular shaped with elevated wings.
		Several lights, streams of lights.
		And I'm sure he wasn't a Jeroid airliner by virtue of the way the lights were arranged.
		Now, prior to this, about a week prior to this, this is during Labor Day weekend or before or after, twice I had the experience I was in a deep sleep, and I was, then all of a sudden I started to awake with a sensation of being scanned with an electronic device,
		and upon waking up, it seemed like when I started to awake or open my eyes, I saw like a large metallic, not a large, but a long, slender, metallic object that disappeared in front of me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I would say you're a candidate for regression.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		He's definitely a candidate for more study.
		I think he should document these things and write them down.
		He should keep, you know, I mean, regression isn't something you should rush into.
		You know, that's something you really should.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's it.
		You know, that brings us to another good point.
		Michelle, is it good for all people to know what they've gone through?
		Or would you say in a lot of cases, it's frankly better they don't know?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, some people don't have the urge to know, okay?
		And, you know, sometimes you know that there's a person who's an experiencer.
		They may have something that leads you to believe that they're an experiencer, but they don't really have that burning to know.
		And it's not really good to push them at that point.
		Hypnotherapy isn't a piece of cake.
		It isn't easy by any means.
		And it isn't something that's a lot of fun.
		And it isn't something that's necessary for a lot of people either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we'll leave it at that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Michelle Levine.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
		Hello.
		Yes, where are you, sir?
unidentified		In Christ in Seminole, Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		First of all, I have a question, and then I have a comment or a suggestion.
		First of all, I should not ask Levin question, therefore I'll ask it in this way, Michelle.
		What types of physical symptoms or physical phenomena have occurred on you after being told you were pregnant, I guess you were told?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, turn your radio on for us while she's answering that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, Michelle.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, sometimes there aren't a lot of physical symptoms.
		Generally, I've skipped periods for months at a time.
		I've had, not to sound too graphic, but I've had swollen, sore breaths.
		I've not necessarily had morning sickness or anything like that that I really can recall.
		Generally, the symptoms are more floating.
		I've felt, I've actually, towards the end of this, which generally goes about two to three months only, I've actually felt movement before I knew that this was happening to me, before I knew what this was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so otherwise a lot of women have these feelings every month, but you're telling us you actually experienced what you believe to be a short-term by our standards pregnancy, right?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		It would really appear to be that.
		Comparing it to my normal full-term pregnancies with my three children, the movement was very much the same.
		There's a very different feeling between the movement of a separate body moving inside of you and say like a gas bubble in your intestine or something or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
unidentified		Caller?
unidentified		Yes, and also, was there anything in the vicinity of your belly button?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		No, actually, I know that a lot of women do have the needle marks in and around their belly button.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I don't seem to get those.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		I wouldn't want those, and that would make the experience very unpleasant.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michelle Levine.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		I'm calling from Madison, Wisconsin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I just had a thought that just occurred to me the other day, and I don't know if it's really a brilliant thought or comment, but I just thought I'd ask your guest.
		A lot of the scientists say that when they investigate the possibility of alien life on other planets, they just go from a real scientific point of view and check atmospheric conditions to see if the weather, the climate there, is suitable for somebody to live.
		And they always seem to compare to us.
		Isn't that kind of an arrogant way to approach things when you may want to consider that there might possibly be alien life that could live in a climate that, say, is 300 below zero, or 400 degrees above zero or something like that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Fair question.
		Scientists the other day announced, Michelle, they'd found two planets 35 light years from here that they believe can sustain or are capable of sustaining life.
		However, these planets are larger than Jupiter.
		That would mean the kind of life they would sustain would have to be.
		Well, it's hard for us to imagine, and should that life ever come here, it would be like Superman coming from Krypton.
		In other words, they would be so dense, so strong, probably so short, they'd be horrors.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, you're assuming then in this question that these beings that we're encountering are indeed from another planet.
		We don't really know that, and they aren't really telling anyone.
		I mean, they could be extra-dimensional.
		They've alluded to that fact.
		There have been abductions that have sort of alluded to that fact.
		They could be extra-temporal.
		They could be from another time.
		They could be from another reality that we don't know, a parallel universe.
		They're really, as far as I know, they really haven't sat anyone down and said, hey, guys, as far as this question goes, this is where we're from.
		I know that they've pointed to stars to people and said, well, you know, this is our star, or that's our star.
		But as far as that goes, but they might.
		Well, they could be.
		And as a matter of fact, in my own personal time that this happened, I was in a room.
		There were stars all over the room.
		I mean, not just on the walls.
		These were like little lights hanging in the sky.
		It's sort of like a three-dimensional type of effect in this room.
		And I said to Hittar, so which place are you from?
		And he said to me, well, can you pick out the one that Earth is around?
		And of course I couldn't.
unidentified		I'm looking at all these lights, I mean little blue ones, little orange ones.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Not having an astronomy background.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, you were.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I'm looking at these things.
		They were pretty, but they didn't mean anything To me, I said, no.
		And then he said, so what difference does it make?
		I could point to any of these, and it wouldn't make any difference to you because you don't have a starting point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He had a good point, and we'll be right back to you, Michelle.
		Michelle Levine, experience abductee.
		All right, let's roll.
unidentified		I'm still awake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		It's getting late.
		First time caller align, you're on the air with Michelle Levine.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you?
unidentified		This is Ed.
unidentified		I'm from San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Ed.
unidentified		Hi, nice to get through to you.
		I have a couple questions.
		Actually, just one major theme for Michelle.
		Actually, I think, Michelle, you're there?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		You're one of the most amazing abductee people I've ever interviewed yet.
		You seem to have quite a clear picture of this whole thing.
		So, you know, you described kind of a collegial atmosphere among people, supposedly humans, that you ran into in your experiences, right?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		In some cases, yes.
unidentified		Have you ever met and talked to these people?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Yes, actually, this is the really neat part that you don't see in the media either.
		It's amazing how many people this happens to, and it's not just me, there's a lot of people that this is happening to, particularly at things like UFO conventions or whatever where people tend to congregate who are into this subject.
		They bump into people and they recognize them.
		Often they might not recognize how come they recognize them until later, but on a regular basis, people do bump into people who they recognize and they know where they recognize them from.
		They remember then.
		They can talk about this.
		And this is something that you're not going to see very much on TV.
		As a matter of fact, I had something recently happen to me just last week where a person who lives in Michigan and I'm in New Hampshire who I know through mail, I had an event, I came home from an event, and I had a very conscious memory of talking to this person there.
		And we talked about a relatively silly subject.
		It was something that would stick out in your mind, but it's not something that you would normally talk to someone about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Michelle, and call her, hold on.
		You know, that is so interesting because it seems to me that's the road to proof.
		In other words, if people in disparate places who have not known each other in any other way are able to separately cooperate a conversation, you're approaching some pretty significant proof, it seems to me.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		It's outstanding.
		It really is.
		Because generally in the past, if one person has had a memory of an event and they remember seeing another event, maybe that other person doesn't really have a memory of it.
		But what we're seeing more and more recently, and I don't know if it's that people are, or that the ETs are allowing people to have more control or that people are learning to control this more, or maybe people are reading the book and they're starting to understand.
		Ah, plug, plug.
		No, but seriously.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we'll get the plug in.
		Don't worry.
		We don't have much time, and I think the caller had another question.
unidentified		Okay.
		My only question was, I think you covered it pretty much all, except I'm just curious to know if this has actually happened to you personally.
		You've actually met people that you have been in Duke with.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		It's absolutely stunning.
		Last week, like I said, last week I had this particularly odd conversation with this person.
		I came home.
		I'm in the habit of writing in my journal, so I wrote down what we talked about in my journals, and then I picked up my email.
		And in my email, I get a letter from this person saying to me, you know, I saw you last night, and this is what we talked about.
		Do you remember?
		And it totally, I was totally elated by it.
		I was so excited by it because it was a two-way conversation, and we came home.
		Both of us went in our separate directions, her to Michigan, me to New Hampshire, and we recalled it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, look, we're at the bottom of the air again, so we'll do your book plug at.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		My email address is Mickey, M-I-C-K-K-E-E, two K's, two Es, at AOL.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you better do that again, slowly.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		M-I-C-K-K-E-E at AOL.com.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		And if the mailbox is full there, which happens very occasionally, but I do get an awful lot of mail there.
unidentified		You will now.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I have a second address.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we'll have to give that out after the break here at the bottom of the hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stay right there.
unidentified		You all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or good morning as this show airs later.
unidentified		My guest is Michelle Levine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And she has been abducted all her life.
		She has written a book about it.
		We're going to get a pencil and paper.
		We're going to be repeating an email address for you.
		And we're going to tell you how you can get a copy of her book in just one moment.
		you here to michelle levine and uh...
		michelle let's uh...
		get the the information kind of stuff out of the way first uh...
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		your other email address is Well, that's hard.
		Yeah, the A-O-L one is the one that gets picked up the most often.
		But once in a while, it does tend to get filled up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know about that.
		All right.
		Now, you have written a book.
		It is a summation of how to deal with being abducted.
		It's called The Alien Abduction Survival Guide by Michelle Levine with a foreword by Mark Davenport and all the rest of it.
		It's very nice.
		It's got drawings in it.
		And one of them, as a matter of fact, is going to make me ask a question here in a moment.
		But how do they get your book?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is available in bookstores.
		It can be ordered.
		But the quickest and most direct way to get it is to order it directly from the publisher.
		That's Wildflower Press.
		And they have an 800 number, which is 1-800-366-0264.
		Or you can get it off the internet from Wildflower Press at Bluewater Publishing, or Bluewater P, which is Blue Water Publishing.
		All one word, B-L-U-E-W-A-T-E-R-P dot com backslash What do they call that thing?
		A tilde?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you, you're better off not doing this, dear.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No one's going to get it.
		The 800 number is the best shot.
		Repeat the 800 number.
unidentified		Okay.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		The 800 number is 1-800-366-0264.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of, or if not most of the photo, or the drawings that you have put in your book that depict human beings depict naked human beings, naked women.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		You make it sound like it's really a nasty picture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No.
		As a matter of fact, they're very well-formed naked women.
		That wasn't where I was going with this.
		I was going even a little further.
		You talk of children that have come from you, and certainly other abductees that have the same sort of story to tell.
		Is impregnation always, do you think, an antiseptic sort of medical procedure, or is there ever sex involved?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, first off, I'd like to separate the nakedness from the sex, okay, because there is sex involved in some of the procedures.
		Often abductees have their clothes removed, but it's not like orgy time, okay?
		It doesn't really connect.
unidentified		I mean, if you're naked and scared, you're not going to be naked and sensual.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		A lot of times abductees do find clothing or have clothing where I hate to say issue to them, but a lot of times people who are in this environment are wearing sort of these kind of one-piece move type long t-shirt type things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they don't issue belts and stockings.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		And generally, a lot of the sex that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that is a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you say sex, you mean sex as we understand it?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, generally, if you see the generally when the sex act happens in this environment, it usually is not between two humans, okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I understand.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		It's usually between a human and an ET.
		Sometimes it's forced.
		Other times, this is something people don't like to remember, but other times it's not, okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is going to get into a very sensitive area, Michelle, but I'm going to presume that with all your experiences and perhaps all your children, this has occurred to you, certainly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What does your husband say about this?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, my husband isn't very pleased about it, to be honest with you.
		I mean, I don't see any husband who would be.
		Well, exactly.
		And unfortunately, though, it is a fact of my life.
		It is something that has happened to me.
		And I wouldn't be surprised, actually, if it's something that may have happened to him because of his possibly having some sort of encounters per association.
		But I know that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you asked him?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Have I asked him if he's ever had sex with an alien?
unidentified		Yeah, that's right.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Actually, to be honest with you, no, I haven't.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I suppose maybe I'll ask him this evening now that you've brought him up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I had to ask him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I just really had to ask that question, so I have to say.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		No, it's a valid question.
		You see, the sex involved with abductions is very real.
		And it is something that people remember.
		People are afraid to mention.
		They're afraid to be labeled perverts or weirdos or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it, gee, dare I delve further?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Go for it.
unidentified		What the hell?
unidentified		Go for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What the hell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is sex with an alien good?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, it depends on what's going on.
		Now, if you are in a position where there is a female alien who straddles your body, stares at you intensely in the eyes, and is basically telling you you are in a situation where you're being dominated and you have to submit to this, that doesn't sound very pleasant to me.
		If you are in a situation where you believe you're having sex with an alien and you wake up to find a tube on your genitals collecting your genetic material, that's not going to be all that much fun either, I'm sure.
		If you are in a situation where you're having some sort of bonding experience with a particular alien who you have an attachment to, you may find that this is something that is very pleasurable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like sex between two humans.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad I asked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michelle Levine.
unidentified		Hello.
		All right.
		Hi, this is Larry from Abilene.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Abilene.
unidentified		Kansas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed, of course.
unidentified		I'm a single guy looking for a nice Jewish alien girl.
		I wanted to know if there's any possibility that I could play guinea pig.
		Everybody says that if they were to see a craft or anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you want to be abducted, right?
unidentified		If Michelle's getting abducted on a regular basis...
		Take my name along.
		I'll play guinea pig.
		I can't be hypnotized, you know, whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		You know, I get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of that.
		Sure.
		Yeah, I want to go.
		want the experience and now that we've added the sex to it i imagine we're going But generally, I get it from 15-year-olds who want to play Star Trek.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		To be honest with you, no, seriously.
		But I really don't know how to get somebody abducted.
		I mean, and I never really gave it a lot of thought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've always thought I'd run the other way.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		You never know what you're going to do until it happens.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I mean, people might be saying, I line up, I'm here, I line up, and then that ship lands in front of them and they're gone.
unidentified		It's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michelle Levine.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Kurt in Medford.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Medford, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		It's Michelle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Hi, Michelle.
		Hi.
		I was, when I was a child, I was abducted several times.
		And it seems that they showed me things that were rather horrifying.
		Like, putting up a view screen, I saw, like, massive tidal waves, like irks falling from the sky, and just scary stuff.
		Volcanic eruptions and a series of different events.
		It sort of horrified me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Earth changes, yeah.
unidentified		Right, exactly.
		And that's one of my questions.
		Maybe you could relate to something about that.
		And the second one is, are we somewhat asleep?
		Like, I don't know if you remember the Twilight Zone that came on several years ago.
		It was about mannequins.
		And they didn't know that when they were human, they didn't realize that they were mannequins.
		And that when they realized toward the end that they were mannequins, they were told, well, why didn't you come back on time?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember that one.
unidentified		Do you remember that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that was a great one.
		Yes, of course I do.
		In other words, Michelle, are we in some sort of altered reality now and the real, boy, real reality, that sounds great.
		The real thing is somewhere else.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you believe what they're telling you, if you believe what they're telling a lot of abductees, then the answer to that would be yes.
		Basically, the way it was laid out to me is that only things that are eternal are real.
		And I don't mean just linearly in time eternal, but I mean things that are real.
		It isn't real.
		Meaning our physical lives here on Earth aren't really part of reality.
		And we're sort of like a node in a physical existence that was created for reality to work some sort of problem out, sort of like a clockwork Earth type of thing.
		And it gets actually really complicated from there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, that was complicated enough for me.
		Hold on one second, Michelle.
		We'll be right back.
		My guest is Michelle Levine, and all mannequins should now listen carefully.
		If you suffer from 800-444-1049.
		Betty and Dreason Luca said the Alien Abduction Survival Guide may be an aid to help one through the journey and psychological maze created by a UFO experience.
		I heartily recommend reading this book.
		That's pretty good testimonial, I should say.
		And it's from Wildflower Press, and I'm going to let you give the number one more time.
		What is the number, Michelle?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		It's 1-800-366-0264.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, back to the phones.
		What's the Rockies?
		You're on the air with Michelle Levine.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Good evening, Arthur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Michelle, this is Mitch, the Magic Christian, in Ventura, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
unidentified		I have a couple of questions, and then I'll take my answer on the air.
		All right.
		Yes, Michelle, have you ever been in contact with anyone from the scientific or medical or military from the federal government of the United States?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Halt.
unidentified		101.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's then Halt there.
unidentified		Have you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has anybody from the government contacted you?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		No, not that I know of.
		I mean, I have some friends who are very conspiracy-minded and wonder if some of the friends I have may be military plants.
		But to my knowledge, no one from the government has contacted me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		That's surprising.
unidentified		Number two, in your conversations with your fellow abductees in what you call the E.T. environment, have you ever found any what you might have perceived to be as Holy Spirit-filled, Bible-believing children of the King, you know, Jesus Christ?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thanks.
		That's why he calls himself the Magic Christian.
		He is indeed a born-again type.
		And it is, actually, it's a very interesting question.
		Of those in the community, those that you rub elbows with, are there generally many Christians or is the group eventually bereft of them?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that there's a very wide assortment of people, and many of the people have very strong Christian beliefs.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		My beliefs tend to be Christian in nature, but not church-religious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I understand that.
unidentified		You know what I mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The question, Michelle, went to others.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, you know, I don't really take surveys when I'm there.
		I don't ask people, so do you believe in the Lord Jesus?
		I mean, this is not the questions that are coming into my mind when I'm interacting with these people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm with you.
		I just thought I'd clarify it, and you did.
		East of the Rockies, you're on there with Michelle Levine.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello, Art.
		This is Mark from Dwight, Illinois on SETCON.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yes, Michelle, I have a few quick questions.
		Sure.
		You mentioned that you asked these aliens some big questions.
		Could you elaborate on that?
		I believe it's about our past or religion or whatever.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me, I didn't hear the question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, he said you asked some big questions about our past, our future, or religion.
		Some big questions.
		He asked, would you elaborate?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not exactly sure that I said I asked, but I guess I do get, volunteered an awful lot of information about things like the nature of the universe, the nature of God.
		And it's really hard to elaborate even in a half-hour segment, never mind, a 10-minute segment or something, about what this all means.
		And to be honest with you, a lot of it, a lot of people would say, well, I'm not sure if I'm going to believe that.
		It's one of those things that's very hard to explain in short terms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I would say I'm not even sure you should believe it based on some of the rest of what you've told us.
		Not because you're fibbing to us, but because they seem to fib.
		Caller, you had a second question.
unidentified		And yes, one more.
		And have you ever sensed any real sensitivity during these alien encounters?
		Or do they come across like typical HMO physicians?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a good one.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, actually, that's one of the big myths out there.
		One of the biggest myths out there that they have absolutely no feelings, that they're little robotic little guys that kind of do their own thing and couldn't give a damn if you live or die.
		And the truth is, if you're lying on a table screaming in horror or they know that if they give you even an inch to move, you're going to scratch their eyes out, they're probably going to ignore you and just go about their duties very robotically and just kind of, you know, just kind of do their work.
		But once you open a dialogue with them and once you start interacting with them and talking with them, you find that they do have emotions, they Do have feelings.
		Sometimes they express things differently than we would.
		Like I mentioned before, they have a sense of humor that I don't think many of us would find incredibly funny.
		You know, I mean, it's definitely not Monty Python, but they do have these emotions, and there is this side of them that you don't experience until you've broken this fear and opened a dialogue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If there's somebody out there, and there are many, being abducted, who have not read your book or, you know, can't get your book or whatever, and in a sentence or paragraph, you had to advise them, what would you tell them?
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		In a sentence, I would...
		In a sentence or paragraph, I think I would tell them that they have to be true to their own heart.
		And as far as anything else that they're exposed to, whether it be my book or someone else's book or a television show or a radio show guest, that they have to learn to be discerning in what they believe and what they don't believe.
		That they have to start keeping a log in a journal of what happens to them.
		Not only does it help you with your memories, but it also helps you to work out the emotions so that the next time you recall it, these things tend to flash back in your mind.
		The emotions won't hit you as hard.
		You have to start taking control.
		You have to start saying, okay, I realize this is happening to me and I can't stop it from happening.
		So how am I going to not only live with it, but I have to learn to cope with it.
		I have to try to turn it around and be my own boss here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as I said to you at the beginning of the program, a lot of that sounds touchy-feely, but if the true fact is that you're going to be abducted and there's nothing you can do about it, you might as well, I suppose, learn to accept it and be psychologically sound with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Michelle, we're out of time.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		It went by really fast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it always does.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, didn't you mention contact form or ISCNI?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		Listen, you've been a sweetheart, and we'll have you back.
		And I appreciate your staying up this late and, you know, being with us.
		So, what can I say?
unidentified		Thank you.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, a lot of fun art.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad I did it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Michelle, thank you, and look out for your mailbox.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		It's going to be good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See you later.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
michelle lavigne ▲ ● ▼		Bye-bye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		That's it, folks.
		We are out of time.
		Again, my special edition book, 1-800-864-7991, from an area near Dreamland in the Pacific Southwest.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		Actually, the high desert.
		Good night.
		This has been Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not matched.
		Yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.

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