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Dec. 20, 1995 - Art Bell

02:54:52

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Emanuel McLittle - Destiny Magazine Publisher

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41:40

emanuel mclittle

01:16:09

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from December 20th, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning as the case may be.
		And welcome to another edition of Coast to Coast AM.
		Live talk radio throughout the nighttime while others repeat, regurgitate, and recycle.
		We're actually here live from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands in the west, all the way out east to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south, well into South America.
		I know that to be true, north to the Pole.
		This indeed is coast to coast a.m.
		You know, working these hours, I confuse myself half the time about which day I'm talking about.
		And I thought I had scheduled Emmanuel McLittle for Thursday.
		Last night, I think I said he would be on tonight.
		So, I called up Emmanuel and he said about same thing.
		Anyway, he's here.
		Emmanuel McLittle is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of something called Destiny Magazine.
		Grew up on Detroit's West Side, so a lot of the hometown folk are going to be listening in Detroit.
		Attended Mumford High School, getting by with poor reading skills, non-existent study habits, and a lackluster work ethic like millions of young black males.
		He was programmed angry.
		During his senior year in high school, Emmanuel and his wife, now 27 years, Sharon, became parents.
		They married, both finished high school at a later time, a high school dropout.
		Emmanuel eventually took a job as a security guard at Mercy College of Detroit.
		Very pedestrian thus far.
		While at Mercy, the school made tuition available to all full-time employees.
		And here's where I think Emmanuel takes off.
		Recognizing the opportunity, he found himself working to complete high school in the evenings while working during the day.
		At 21 years of age, he began his freshman year at Mercy College and caught fire with a thirst for reading.
unidentified		That'll do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His favorite areas of interest were psychology, history, political science.
		In two years, he earned an associate degree.
		The, quote, taste of achievement, end quote, hooked him.
		In just 18 additional months, and I'll tell you, it's like a drug, this high school dropout graduated with a 3.6 grade point average, a Bachelor of Arts degree in sociology.
		The anger had been replaced with a drive to do something about the dark conditions in the very inner city he grew up in.
		A couple of more years, he earned a master's degree in psychology from the University of Detroit.
		By now, he was a different person altogether.
		A candidate for U of D's doctoral program, he had additional schooling to support his growing family.
		In the first job as a parole officer for the state of Michigan, a slow transformation.
		A morphing, I guess, the morphing of Emmanuel.
		His political ideals began to take shape.
		Nothing would be the same after that.
		And now, I guess, well, we're going to find out.
		I wonder if he would label himself Emmanuel Little.
		Welcome to Mick Little.
		Welcome to the program.
		How are you?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, Art.
		How are you?
		I'm glad to be here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're up in Oregon or something, aren't you?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes, in the hills of Oregon, where I've lived for the last year and a half.
		And it is a move that has attached itself to the rear end of this morphing that you're talking about.
		Because it is another piece of my individuality that began way back in those years when I knew and began to progressively know that there was a reality out there different than what was in my head.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a big change from inner city Detroit to the hills of Oregon.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why did you make that move?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know why.
		I sat as a young boy, and what I didn't know at the time was a confusing, sometimes angry, frequently unnourishing environment like millions of young black boys at seven or eight years of age.
		And I found comfort watching Huff and Little Joe ride off into the sunset and sit around a huge fireplace with a living room that looked like all outdoors and speak about principles that I didn't hear spoken about in my home.
		And a love for that outdoors, that distance, that freedom, that sense of family touched me as a child and never left me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was your home like?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Very large family, 12, 14 brothers and sisters.
		Oh, my.
		A confusion, typical problems between black male and black female in terms of my mother and father.
		My mother was dominant in our household.
		My father was less dominant and almost like one of the older brothers in a sense.
		And I'm being this descriptive because later on I will be equally as descriptive in terms of talking about some of the dynamics that exist in black homes today and the connection and links between that kind of environment and what we see as a continuing, lagging problem with blacks being on the bottom rung of the ladder.
unidentified		14 children, Emmanuel.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		All in one home at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's impossible.
unidentified		No, it isn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, it is certainly possible, but it's nearly impossible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did your dad work?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Well, my dad was slung steel at Ford Motor Company's Rewich plant in Dearborn, Michigan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A good job.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, pretty good job.
		He was not around psychologically, provided little support in terms of growing, rendering, and developing young men, six of my brothers.
		And as I said earlier, I found frequent and comfortable escape watching those things like Bonanza on TV that took me to another place.
		And I think that was the genesis of my later years, finding particular enjoyment, not doing some of the things that some of my friends would do.
		I enjoyed a ride 80 miles away into the country, and I enjoyed the hills and the quiet and the cow poop and the sense of serenity that I found, and it never left me.
		And when I was able to decide what I was going to do in terms of where I was going to live, I found a place called Selma, Oregon, that provides a similar scenery and a similar feel to what I found very comfortable at six years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you were watching Bonanza.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I guess it is like country, actually.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But Bonanza was certainly not anywhere near the black culture.
		It depicted a very almost perfect, as you pointed out, value-laden picture of a rather well-to-do white early Western family.
		Yes, very close to that.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		At that particular age, I didn't see color, nor did I see economic status.
		What I saw was a dad and sons who talked about life, who had something to say to each other that was frequently not argumentative, who put their lives on the line for each other in terms of defending each other's ideals and principles.
		There was a freedom there that I did not experience as a child.
		And I'm suggesting to you and your audience that as I grew and finally become age-educated about what it means for whole happy development in a child, I can now suggest that all children have a sense of knowing about what is peaceful and what is happy and what is proper.
		And they don't know their habit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is your father alive now?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		My father is dead 20 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My father is dead 20 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		did you feel and do you now still feel anger toward your father?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't feel...
		If you weren't angry at 13 years old and you didn't know how to sight at 14 and you didn't treat your girlfriend in a rough fashion, you were kind of like a punk where I grew up.
		And so, yes, my resentment frequently was directed towards my father, who I knew had a kind of a lacking in the sense that he was 20 years older than my mother.
		And I never saw anything loving in terms of their exchange with each other.
		I saw arguments and verbal violence more often than I saw anything else.
		And so I had a deep anger towards my parents because there was a sort of knowing inside of me, as there is in millions and millions of young blacks today, that there was some responsibility on their part for the difficulties that I experienced as a young man thrust into a world that was not very friendly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Emmanuel, back away from the phone just a little bit.
		Okay.
		And I think it'll be better.
		You're almost over-modulating a little bit.
		Okay.
		Now, listen, you're on the air right now in Detroit, and you're talking to, no doubt.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		My brothers and sisters.
unidentified		You got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And in the inner city, the same place you were.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That you're not anymore.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what would you say to them?
		Many of them traveling down a very different road than for some surprising reason you traveled.
		What happened to you?
		What can they take from what you did?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Well, I want to mention that I talk to them by way of a 60-page glossy magazine every other month.
		But the route that I took was one that I believe is offered to all of them.
		And when I say them, I mean there are brothers and sisters sitting in Detroit that I haven't seen or spoken to in 20 years.
		And this distance that exists between them and I is the result of my having moved in an entirely different and foreign direction as they.
		And it began with reading and finding out that I wasn't so stupid and throwing off this sense of inferiority that comes with anger, hostility that young men develop.
		And when I sat in a classroom with rather well-to-do white students at Mercy College, and I made the first discovery that I was not stupid, that I had some kind of understanding about life and other things that some of these students did not,
		and that I needed to do nothing but get the mechanics, the reading, the study habits, the discipline to make it through the course material, to carry a decent sized load.
		And that happened for me in the very, very first year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but what made that happen?
		What was the genesis of it?
		Was there some light bulb that came down and went on over your head all by itself?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there was prior to my having got to Mercy College.
		Mercy College came as a result of a series of other things.
		My wife and I were parents at 18 and 19 years old, and we live in the heart of Detroit's bowels, sort of like in its inner city.
		If you know where the Detroit riot started in 1967, it was at a place called 12th in Claremont.
		Well, we lived in that vicinity when we were first married because that is the place where you could get $50 a month apartments, sometimes it had leaky roofs and rather cheap rent.
		And I had what I think to be somewhat of a revelation standing on my porch and watching the whores and the drug addicts walk down the street past my home.
		And I stood on my porch one day and watched my sons who were one and two, three years old, playing in what should have been grass, but mud.
		And I just had a sense at that very moment that I had to get out of here, that I had to take my children out of here.
		And I had only one difficulty.
		I had a value system that was very similar to the mentality that I was surrounded by.
		And I had no money.
		And I had nothing of value except a 1965 Bonneville that had more expensive speakers and skirts.
		I don't know that you remember what skirts are, but I remember my Bonneville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember them on cars and women.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on just one moment, Emmanuel.
unidentified		We'll be right back to you.
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		Looking for the truth, you'll find it on CoastToCoast AM.
		I get asked at so many places, do you really believe that we're being visited?
		It's amazing how many people wonder about that.
		The visitations have been happening since the beginning of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is a very bizarre thing that is taking place.
		But we're having alien creatures visit this planet.
		Our government knows about it.
		They're telling us nothing about it.
unidentified		That is a very serious situation.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's broadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell was recorded on December 20, 1995.
		Music
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, there you are in Detroit, angry, but somehow, what I need to find out is, if you know, what happened to you that could happen to the people listening to you in Detroit and the other big cities, L.A., elsewhere, what is that thing?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that what it is, was to realize that there was no real bars that locked me into 12th and Claremont in Detroit.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		There was nothing really there that held me back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I remember, Emmanuel, when I was young and lived in the Northeast, and we would ride through on the train areas, really rough areas of the Bronx and so forth.
		And I would look at the tenements there, and I would say, to myself, why would anybody stay there?
		Why wouldn't they run away?
		Why wouldn't they grab their family and every penny they could get their hands on and head for the hills?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Well, they don't because they're told that there's nowhere else to be.
		They don't because we are constantly told as blacks that there is a world out there that does not welcome us.
		We are given all kinds of illusions that actually create a psychological prison around those areas that we designate ourselves to live in.
		You see?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how much truth is there in that?
		There's a germ, certainly, of truth in it.
		Now, there was racism.
		There was a lot of racism in early America.
		We went through a metamorphosis, good word, again, and things seemed to get better for a while.
		Right now, frankly, I think they're getting worse again.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I think they're getting worse because we worked too hard to heal the wound.
		And the effort that we took to heal the wound actually tore it open again.
		And there is a little concept that says that there is a point in which one individual or a group of people, a race of people, has to overlook those injuries and harms that took place to them collectively at some time in the past.
		And for blacks, that did not happen.
		There is a sense in America that blacks have to get back, that we have to have some kind of reparations, that we have to be arrogant and angry and hostile towards the descendants of white people who mistreated us.
		And so, instead of taking the route that says in reality that there is a history in the human race where everybody has been somebody else's slave and that at some point the getting back has to stop and there has to be a leveling out of those feelings that demand revenge, you see.
		And so now we are in a place and a political position where we can demand reparations.
		We can demand a right to be racist ourselves.
		We can demand that you accept our harshness and our anger and our hostility.
		And in that state of mind, is it possible to know what the right amount of payback is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Art.
		We will talk about reparations and payback and that kind of thing when we come back in just a moment.
		Emmanuel McLittle is my guest.
		There'll be more.
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
		To Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time
		To
		Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time To
		Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's broadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell was recorded on December 20th, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Emmanuel McLittle.
		He is the editor-in-chief of Destiny Magazine.
		Aptly named, I guess.
		Came from the inner city area of Detroit.
		And we're not going to open the phones yet, but when we do, you know what I think I'm going to do?
		I'm going to restrict my East of the Rockies line to the inner city area of Detroit.
		That might be very interesting.
		So if that's where you are, when we open the lines, everybody else hold off.
		And on our East of the Rockies line, I want to hear from nobody but inner city Detroit people.
		Hello there.
		We're talking to you.
		The number is 1-800-825-5033.
		That's 1-800-825-5033, a spark.
		Something in Emmanuel that lifted him up by bootstraps.
		That's something well-worn phrase, I suppose, and made him decide, I'm out of here.
		I'm into a different life.
		I'm going to educate myself.
		Up, up, and out, as it were.
		We're going to explore that and some other very interesting race-related issues with Emmanuel.
		There's a lot of interesting stuff coming up.
		In the most immediate, reparations.
		We'll talk about that and his attitude about them, compared to Minister Perakon's, for example.
unidentified		Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Art Bell Somewhere in Time Back now to Emmanuel McLittle, who publishes editor-in-chief, in fact, of Destiny Magazine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is the message of Destiny?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		The message of Destiny is that it actually provided a little relief for me in the beginning of my sort of journey to what I believed to be was a sort of reality that I discovered later on had been talking to me inside my head since the day I decided that the Bonneville had to go and that there was no other money for which me to escape where I was, the place that I was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Emmanuel, is this your way of trying to tell other people how to do what you did?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		How to do what I did, and that choices, the choices that we make as individuals, are not a whole lot different than the choices that we make as a whole group, a whole race of people.
		That when you choose wrong, the results will be wrong.
		And that we have for too long chosen out of a sense of anger about slavery and have therefore gone into a direction that has created an environment in our neighborhoods, in our household, that is all wrong.
		And this wrong is reflected in everything, nearly everything that we read, nearly everything that we listen to, nearly everything that we are attracted to in terms of music, in terms of the culture that surrounds the minds of our children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of talk about reparations, Emmanuel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Should there be reparations for black people?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nope.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		No, there shouldn't be reparations for black people because if there should be reparations for black people, then what money is there going to be left to pay for the slavery that took place in the continent where we came from?
		Who pays that reparations?
		And who pays the reparations of all of the other races that have been slaves in the world before us?
		And if you pay reparations, how do you factor in the fact that black Americans live at a much higher level than other blacks anywhere else in the world?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's an absolute truth.
		I heard a black man, and I'm sorry I don't remember where the other day, said, you know, sometimes I hear blacks talking about Africa as though they would wish to go back.
		He said, let me tell you something.
		I went over to Africa here recently, and he said, I looked at the people and how they lived, the way they lived, the sounds that were around me.
		He said, I couldn't get my butt out of there fast enough.
		There's no more way I'd want to live in Africa than the man in the moon.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Nor do all of those people who are constantly hurling attacks at America as being the most racist place on the planet.
		You don't see those people taking advantage of Pan Am's discounts that will take you overseas every weekend.
		And so one of the things that Destiny magazine attempts to do is to provide a language and a basis for understanding that if you bite the hand that gives you the best, the biggest, the tastiest meal you've ever had, then you are responsible for your own negative lot.
		And this is what's happened to blacks in this country on a political, social, and a personal level.
		We have bitten the hand of the nation that allows us to have blacks heading some of the larger cities in this nation.
		And that we, amongst some of the wealthiest, and there would hardly be any basketball were it not for blacks.
		And we are police chiefs and school board presidents and teachers and physicists and scientists.
		scientists in numbers in America that is unmatched anywhere else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bet there's some blacks out there who would say to you, now here he is.
		I'm listening to this guy.
		He's the black guy who ran away to be a white man.
		You know, wanted to live on the Ponderosa.
unidentified		Yes.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Not wanted to, do live on a small ponderosa.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I have experienced that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you don't understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They'd be coming at you from that.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I do understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From that place of anger.
		They'd be saying, well, he's a black man maybe only in skin color only.
		He's a white man now.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		But if I would allow that kind of criticism to put a boulder in the road of my dreams, I would be back there with him, slapping backs and playing Jin Rummy.
		But I'm not, you see.
		And I say it out of no anger and malice whatsoever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not in favor of mixed marriage, are you?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So obviously then you're a connoisseur of your own culture.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And yet, many would argue that you have abandoned your culture with the destiny you have created for yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't there a bit of a problem between those two sometimes for you?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm married to a very, very attractive black woman.
		And culture has no real great value for me.
		I have created my own culture.
		And while I am still a black man, I allow nothing to hem me in in terms of how I shall act, what I shall wear, who I should be, where I should go.
		I'm a free individual.
		And I am suggesting in 60 pages every other month how not only can my brethren, my personal, my family, my racial brethren, my colleagues, the people that I left back in Detroit, how this can be shared and experienced.
		And that as long as we think of ourselves as a group and not as individuals who happen to be a different color, then we will continue to live in a prison and continue to blame white folks for that prison.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but what's wrong with the mixed marriage?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I don't think anything is wrong with a mixed marriage for blacks in a perfect world.
		But for blacks, in my view, and I understand this from sort of like my psychology background where I worked with my people for many, many years, 12 years.
		And you'd have to be blind and a fool to not see that rather than racism, there are some deep pathological problems inside the black community that emanate not in corporate America, but within the confines of the homes where young black men and women grow up.
		And that there is such emotional destruction that that is really the genesis for some of the crime, really the geneses for some of the violence that we see in 20% of the young men who are in prison now and there is a need for some extensive repair and the repair must include a father and a mother.
		Usually let me finish this.
		It would be much more healthy for young black children to see their mother and their father work through their own destinies and work through a life that is transcendent of hostility and hate and anger and failure.
		And I believe that in order to do so, that has to include both members of what it takes to be a family, a black man and a black woman.
		This is not anti-white.
		This is not anti-interracial marriage.
		It is pro the kind of building blocks that's needed to create an organism, a race, of health.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think I disagree with you.
		I think that ultimately in our society, the only hope is that the color differences eventually disappear.
		and actually that is occurring and you probably consider that to be Yes.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And I also consider it quite arrogant for human beings who did not create the color differences, which I believe to be rather beautiful from a panoramic point of view.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And we would be quite arrogant to attempt to get rid of them.
unidentified		yeah but uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		wouldn't we also be arrogant to prevent that change in other words as it occurs naturally whether it's black and brown or asian or white or whatever intermarrying I believe it's forced on us.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		It's being pushed on us.
		It is just now happening in the last 40 years that we have crossed each other's lines.
		And don't get the impression that I am advocating that we don't deal with each other in different races.
		I think it's quite possible for you and I to work in the same marketplace, that we do business together, that we be great friends, and that we sit and break bread together.
		But it is my view that I should not mix with your wife, and that you should not mix with my sister.
		That if you carry that mixing to its ultimate conclusion, then the races do disappear.
		And it would be an odd thing for it to happen for human beings as well as for it to happen to trees or animals.
		This great variety that existed, everything else on earth ought to exist in the human race as well.
		And I am suspicious and have been suspicious for 20 years about this ongoing effort to get rid of it.
		There's something wrong with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what is to say that a black man and a white woman or the other way around or any other combination of colors and ethnicities can't mix and have as nurturing and loving a family?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I'm not saying that that's possible, but in the world that we live in...
		I think that there is something natural that prevents it.
		I think it's very difficult to exist in a mixed marriage.
		I think that the basis of all real love is directed towards your skin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Emmanuel, that's a societal difference.
		It's not a natural one.
		You used the word natural a while ago.
unidentified		It is dark.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I am naturally different in terms of my skin tone than you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean, so what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I say again, so what?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I think it's a wonderful thing to have that difference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is wonderful.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		There ought not to be any difference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't, no, I don't disagree with you.
		It is a wonderful thing.
		But again, I say, so what?
		I mean, if a man and a woman fall in love, regardless of anything, and they provide a nurturing home, I don't, I just, I don't see where the problem with that is.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And you need to explain it to me about it.
		I think that on an individual level, that people are able to come together and have that coming together not be reflected in the fact that they are different colors.
		There is nothing wrong with it.
		But you name me a couple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the unit, there is nothing wrong with it.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You name me a couple who makes the decision to marry each other and they are of different races.
		And I say that if it's possible to strip away the psychological layers, that you will find the fact of that difference having too much of a factor in the decision to marry.
		It's not possible.
		A black man cannot ignore his wife's complexion if she's white.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's leave that for a second and talk about I did, it was toward the end of the O.J. Simpson trial, you know, when they had the famous Race is the Reason speech at the end by Cochrane.
		And I talked to, for a couple of hours, black men down in Los Angeles.
		Then I talked to black women in Los Angeles.
		And I made a very important discovery.
		I discovered there was an extreme anger on the part of black women toward any black man who, after having made it financially, you know, moving on up as it were, took on a white woman or a woman of another color.
		There's an incredible anger.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes, because to black women, it represents abandonment.
		If that man, and I disagree with you, they see it with poor black men who mix.
		They hate it.
		They hate it with a passion.
		Because that is one more man that wasn't at home providing a model for his son that is one more man that one of them could not marry and they see something naturally wrong with their kind going to a different kind.
		It is the ultimate to a black female in rejection.
		It is the ultimate rejection.
		And you must talk to a black female who speaks with you from the point of honesty, who will tell you that one of the reasons that O.J. Simpson is free today is because there was a resentment towards his wife that nobody ever spoke of.
		They were denied.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think that was a big part of the huge factor.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		In other words, she should have never been with him.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And nobody knows how O.J. Simpson and his wife got together.
unidentified		But the story is she chased him.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		She demanded to have him.
		She took him away from his beautiful black wife and family.
		You see?
		And this is the kind of thing that you cannot get an individual to speak about in an honest sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would say, okay, but that happens in the white community.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there's a lot of wives out there who have had their husbands taken away by members of the same sex.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Not a lot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The same, excuse me, race.
		Oh, sure there are.
		Come on.
		The divorce rate in white America is terrible.
		It's probably worse in black America, but it's bad in white America, too.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People leave people for other people all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But in the case of leaving, as you point out, a black woman for a white woman, as he made it, you know, financially, boy, oh boy, I took calls and I'm telling you there was some serious anger.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Yes.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		So it was that bread, honey, and sweet milk that he should have brought home to his community.
		It was the departure of the time that men and women should transcend the first blush of marriage, which is usually quite sexual.
		And that transcends itself seven or eight or ten years, depending on the couple.
		And you get down to where the rubber meets the road in terms of trying to work out the things that divide men and women.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll bite.
		I agree with that.
		But why would a black-white relationship not mature after this initial sexual rush as any other relationship in the same race would or hopefully?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I can only tell you what my experience is, having counseled many such couples, they're in denial about the real reasons that they marry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you counsel them, do you counsel them that they should not be together because they are of different race?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Well, in the 12 years that I did practice, I didn't get into a habit of saying you should do or you should not do.
		A good therapist, and I since then don't believe in the powers of psychology anymore.
		But a good therapist would simply show them the reality that they are trying to avoid in their own minds, and they will eventually tell you themselves that they shouldn't have done it.
		I've heard it a thousand times, that the reason that we all get married in the same race is too often trivial and fickle and do not have enough of the deeper things that life is made out of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Emmanuel 15 years.
		Emmanuel, Emmanuel, I've got to interrupt.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		Stand by.
		We'll be right back to you.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's broadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell was recorded on December 20, 1995.
		We'll be right back.
		Premier Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired December 20th, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you what, it's going to be an interesting one this morning.
		My guest is Emmanuel McLittle.
		He is the founder, publisher, editor-in-chief of Destiny Magazine.
		He grew up in Detroit's inner city.
		Young, angry, black kid.
unidentified		Suddenly, somehow, the light bulb went on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He went and got an education, went out west, and now publishes a magazine with some very interesting points of view.
unidentified		and we'll be right back to him Looking for the truth?
unidentified		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk a little bit about the shadow government.
unidentified		Do you believe it's there?
		Yeah, we've heard that term, you know, for so many years, and I thought it was this group in the Netherlands that sit behind smoked windows and make decisions like, you know, giant players of chess.
		But it isn't.
		We don't have the government anymore.
		What we have is a loose coalition of bureaucracies, but we have no representation in that government.
		So when I look at the Constitution, I see it as a really inspired and eternal document that has been sidestepped in almost every legal way possible.
		So the process itself has been intentionally manipulated to facilitate a certain style of government.
		And it's taken a while to set up, but I think it's set up now and it's working just the way they like it.
		We need a systemic change in order to let the Republic be representative of the people again.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's broadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell was recorded on December 20, 1995.
		The End All right, back now to Emmanuel McLittle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Emmanuel, and oh, I want to specify, I'm going to restrict my East of the Rockies line to Emmanuel's birthplace, Inner City, Detroit.
		And we're about to take calls here.
		So Inner City, Detroit only.
		The number is 1-800-825-5033.
		This will be very interesting.
		All the other lines, as usual, but inner city, Detroit, only on the east of the Rockies line at 1-800-825-5033.
		Now, Emmanuel McLittle, he doesn't want a country where there are mixed marriages.
		He's against them.
		Blacks should not marry whites.
		Whites not blacks.
unidentified		And so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He says he doesn't want reparations for blacks.
		Now, I'm beginning to hear a few similarities with what he's saying and what Louis Farrakhan says.
		Louis Farrakhan is many things, but he is an intellectual.
		He is interesting to listen to, and I'd love to interview him.
		So in some ways, it's not like I'm interviewing Farrakhan here, but I do want to ask, Farrakhan says, if black people were given reparations, Emmanuel, in the form of money, that money would soon and quickly disappear non-productively.
		What Farrakhan wants is in a way what I'm going to ask you whether you want, and that is he wants land, land in America.
		He wants a place where black people in America can be by themselves.
		How do you react to that?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I don't.
		I see myself at the total opposite end of the universe of Farrakhan's thinking.
		I think we have all that we need in this country, and it is called not land, not money, but opportunity.
		I think that living in the most prosperous place on the planet, having an opportunity to do whatever, live whatever, be whatever we want to be, is the great prize that all of the other groups in the world want, and they're streaming across a part of our border to try to experience it.
		We already have it.
		And I believe that American blacks are the recipients of a great gift.
		And let me shock you a little bit more in my thinking that those slave ships that landed on the shores of parts of the African continent, in my view, while it was a harsh experience, it was a harsh ride.
		It was a harsh 1 to 200 years of slavery.
		But had it not occurred the blacks that you see having been lifted up by a tremendous tide would never have taken place.
		And so if you are bothered at all about some of the things that I have said in the past, be bothered by this also, that I am grateful to the powers that be, that saw fit to put my ancestors on one of those boats.
		Because I am an individual here.
		I am all that I am inside.
		And that goes so far beyond what color my skin is, that I am a man that has virtually no consciousness that I'm even black.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure there are a lot of blacks that will call you up and say they can hear that clearly.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Well, I haven't heard it yet from blacks.
		What I am hearing it is from Ardell.
		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, I am...
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		and he's black, but that is supposed to be an automatic right for a man like yourself to live probably in a remote area in a desert town.
		I do.
		And away from all of those white people in California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Well, then how come I can't have it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've misinterpreted what I've said.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you have.
		I'm not saying that there's a thing wrong with what you've done.
		In fact, as I told you earlier, I used to drive through the Bronson.
		My attitude would be when I'd see those tenements, you know, that run alongside the railroad, you go through those areas.
		So why the hell don't those people get out of there?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		But if you were speaking, as you have, to night guests who live in remote areas, this question would never have formed in your mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		no that's not what i'm questioning about what you're saying Emmanuel what I'm questioning I don't care for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Why are you offended by it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, in other words, I don't care whether you live in Timbuktu or in Detroit.
		That makes no difference to me.
		So, you missed that there.
		I'm glad that you live where you live, and I'm glad you're happy living there.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Not as glad as me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but I do question your attitude about mixed marriages, and that's where we have our difference.
		Now, you say you have a lot of differences with Farrakhan.
		I don't see that you have that many differences.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Well, because you're not aware of that.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Because you seem to look at surface.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Farrakhan.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You seem to look at surface, and you hear some of the things coming from me, that you hear similar things coming from Louis Farrakhan, and you don't see anything except we're the same color and we sound similar.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		don't seem to hear that it's two diametrically opposed hearts, minds, and souls, which you don't seem to attribute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, does Louis Farrakhan also believe that the Well, I'm sure you've heard him speak.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think he also believes that races should not mix in marriage?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Well, he may also be capable of telling you when it's noon on a particular day.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And because he's capable of saying something intelligent doesn't make him a good man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		There are many, many intelligent people who see quite clearly that it is healthy for black children to have parents who look like them.
		There is something wrong when men and women of the same race take years to ferret through some of the physical things that impede men from loving women's soul.
		It is compounded when the races are also different, because I tell you, quite honestly, from having felt in the room with hundreds of couples, mixed couples generally are extremely more sexual.
		And there is a lot of psychological sex embodied in the dissension, in the decision to interracially marry.
		And sex is already a problem between men and women.
		Because as fast as he can, a man has to learn for himself, for his wife, and for his children to learn to love his wife's soul and not her body.
		And any honest woman will tell you that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I agree with you.
		I'm just saying, and I'll repeat what I said last hour, and then we'll get to phones because a lot of people want to talk to you.
		But we both realize that most marriages begin with a mainly sexual or passionate attraction.
		Then after months or years pass, one of two things happens.
		Either they find their differences are irreconcilable and the original sexual attraction is gone, or they fall in a deeper, more mature love and understanding of each other.
		You know what?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Wrong, wrong again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, wait, wait, well, let me finish, Manuel.
		And I think that is true.
		The sex remains always to some degree, but they either become soulmates, as it were, and that takes over and continues the bond, or they get to the point where they are very different.
		And to me, that could happen either in a mixed marriage or in a same-race marriage.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		What you call irreconcilable differences is usually men who are not ready to realize that the reasons that he decided to marry this particular woman was frequently too many of the wrong reasons, and she was looking for love in the wrong place and discovered earlier than him that this wasn't it.
		And love is absent.
		So irreconcilable difference is a shallow way of describing what really takes place in the conflict between men and women.
		She wants genuine love.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yo, sure, but look, all I'm trying to get through all of this fog is that these things that go right or go wrong can happen in a mixed marriage or a same-race marriage.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Quicker in mixed marriages.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Quicker in mixed marriages.
		Check the statistics.
		They don't last long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's an interesting point.
		And we'll continue with it.
		Let me jump to the telephones.
		On my Detroit line, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
		How are you, Mr. McLittle?
		Hello, sir.
		How are you?
		Pretty good, pretty good.
		Where do you live?
		Huh?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Where do you live?
unidentified		I live in Detroit.
unidentified		I live on Carter near Dexter.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I know where you are.
unidentified		Yep, but I grew up and was born and raised on Sewer and Bangor and Hancock, all throughout Detroit.
		Actually, I grew up quite like yourself.
		A family of 10.
		Father was self-employed.
		We grew up actually in the nation of Islam.
		We grew up with this influence.
		And as I grew and I went to college in North Carolina, I realized that this Nation of Islam was not representative of Islam.
		I started taking the course that Malcolm took.
		I understood Malcolm as being similar to me.
		He grew up in the streets.
		He was a hustler.
		He was a gangster, the whole ghetto subculture, what you see today.
		Then he transcended to a nationalistic view.
		Quite like yourself.
		Even though you're very educated, you still aspise to these nationalistic views.
		And as I researched and studied more and found out what Islam had to offer, I started to look at situations surrounding race.
		And in the Quran, it says, God created man in the different nations and colors and tribes so that they may come to know one another, not so that they may despise one another.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		This God who loves beautiful color.
unidentified		Okay, but hear me what I'm saying.
		Okay, America, in its attempt with man governing man, in its attempt, identifies people based on color identification.
		So they have taught us well on how to take on these biases and understand, understand me well.
		I don't subscribe to any tenets of racism.
		I know Muslim men and women, black, white, Somalian, Korean, who are Muslim, and they live in harmony.
		They raise their children in harmony simply because they follow a specific type of belief system.
		Now this is what divides mankind and their beliefs.
		So you still, even though you're educated and well educated, have you, you still subscribe to this belief system that America teaches all of us, which is secularism or this understanding.
		And you look at the life choices that you made.
		I've heard this program.
		You took a program off of television as a youngster and it inspired you to sort of run away from your environment.
		I understand that no matter where you live, it doesn't matter where you are, it's how you live.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Brought me back to differ with you.
		I believe that human beings are quite unlike animals.
		Oh yes, because of the spirit.
		Let me finish.
		We are quite unlike animals, and therefore, we have what I believe to be a deeper, intuitive, soul side to us that has no territory, for an example.
unidentified		Oh, yes, it is.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I'm expressing something in where I live, and it's interesting that where I live has become a flash point here.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You express something in where I live that is quite individualistic.
unidentified		Have you ever been out of the country somewhere like Morocco or India?
		No.
		Even Mecca or Medina?
		No.
		You've never been out of the country?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Not for those countries, no.
unidentified		Okay, okay.
		So my point is this.
		No matter where you live or no matter where you run, you still have ideologies that influence us.
		You've been influenced by the Western mentality and the Western ideology to make you hold these views.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I tell you that there is a greater and a stronger influence in me that comes from what I believe to be my individual design.
unidentified		Okay, but even though you're an individual, you cannot function properly as an individual because human beings are community oriented.
		They need each other.
		If a flood was to inflict you, you would eventually have to have another human being, whether they're white, black, brown, purple, it doesn't matter.
		But what I'm saying is if you believe in one creator who created us all, you have to believe that human beings are also one.
		Even though the difference is there, you say that you enjoy these differences and they're needed, but they're also one.
		They all have a heart.
		They all have a soul.
		They all need bread, water.
		They all use the bathroom.
		This is what joins human beings, the universality that I found in Islam.
		You go, you look at the Hajj in Mecca each year.
		You'll find every human being represented there with the same aspiration, the worship of one God, and they're all brothers.
		This is why Islam breaks down this barrier.
		I know Muslims who are married to Caucasian Muslim women.
		I know Muslims who are across the spectrum.
		No matter where you go in the world, you'll find Islam there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, let me jump in.
		Stephanie, hold on.
		Let me jump in just one second.
		Doesn't spirituality, as both of you have discussed it, if it is pure, why does it not simply transcend any skin color differences?
unidentified		Because of what God instructs us.
		He says when he created man, he created man in the best of molds.
		And that when he created this man, that the devil was present.
		And the devil said that I see in this human being there's very little self-control.
		So the devil inspires us to create differences among ourselves.
		I'm from better lineage than you.
		I am better than you because of my race.
		And this is what we, but human beings don't have the ability to govern themselves.
		We don't.
		This is why God sent prophets to teach them our universal message because ultimately the final goal is to die and meet God.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I don't know anything about all of that.
unidentified		A wise man.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		God doesn't share his culture with me, but I think it is quite natural for me to identify, love, and want to procreate.
unidentified		But you're not operating on a natural ability.
		You're operating on what you learned.
		Learned behavior.
		If you want to go back to something natural, seek what prophets had.
		Seek what Moses taught.
		And you ain't going to be able to find it unless you look at the Quran and you'll find human beings have not changed since the time of Adam, since the time of Noah.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Well, we definitely disagree on where we ought to look for truth.
		But you are from my old country, and I'm happy to talk to you.
		And I think that I'd like to get to some of my enemies out well, looking for in Detroit.
unidentified		Who is that enemy?
unidentified		No, no, you're wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You disagree.
unidentified		We're not enemies.
unidentified		That's right.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I don't see you as one.
unidentified		I don't see you as one.
		You did contradict yourself, Mr. McLittle.
		You said, human beings, because you yourself said that you don't look to yourself as a race and you use your intellect and the ability that you have as an individual, but at the same time, you say that in mixed marriages, it won't work.
		How can we say that?
		How can we make a blanket statement like that if two individuals really care about each other and they're not, they love each other?
		Because you have to look at behavior also.
		This is why I agree with you about going back to family, marriage, and solving some of the problems that we face in society.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, you do.
		Hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it.
		We're out of time.
unidentified		Caller, friend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, caller in Detroit, thank you very much.
		So in essence, he was complaining to you about what I was complaining to you about.
		I'm not disagreeing with you entirely, but on this one issue I am, and I think it's going to be interesting, Emmanuel.
		So hold on.
		We'll come back with more.
		Stay right where you are.
		My guest is Emmanuel McLittle.
		He is the editor-in-chief of Destiny Magazine from his home in Oregon.
		And there's more on the way.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast A.M. You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's broadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell was recorded on December 20, 1995.
		We'll be right back.
		We'll be right back.
		We'll be right back.
		You are listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 20th, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going to be an interesting ride this morning.
		Emmanuel McLittle is my guest founder, publisher, editor-in-chief of Destiny magazine, and that kind of says it.
		He came from Center Detroit, lives in Oregon now, and has many views that are very controversial.
		And so it's going to be very interesting.
		I am holding open my East of the Rockies line for people in inner city Detroit.
		It should provide, I think, an interesting contrast.
		I'm not looking for enemies at all, despite what Emmanuel may think of his.
		I'm simply looking for people who would comment from that area which he came.
unidentified		Take Coast to Coast AM with you anywhere on your mobile phone.
		Coast2CoastAM.com can be conveniently accessed on your iPhone and most Android platforms, which means that you are never without your Coast to Coast AM fix.
		If you're a Coast to Coast Insider subscriber, you can listen to the show live in the middle of the night or previous shows 24-7.
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		Keeping up with Coast to Coast AM has never been easier with our Coast Insider service.
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM.
		I get asked at so many places, do you really believe that we're being visited?
		It's amazing how many people wonder about that.
		The visitations have been happening since the beginning of time, haven't they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is a very bizarre thing that is taking place.
		But we're having alien creatures visit this planet.
		Our government knows about it.
		They're telling us nothing about it.
unidentified		That is a very serious situation.
unidentified		Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to Emmanuel McWhittle.
		Emmanuel, I've got two faxes here I want to read you.
		One is sympathetic to you and one is not.
		Which one do you want first?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I get a thrill out of agreement and disagreement, so it doesn't matter to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in that case, you're going to be thrilled to death.
		Here they come.
		All right, dear, thank you for your guest tonight.
		His rational thinking and intelligent choices give me, as a white person, hope that all races may in the future see that we are not different in what we as human beings need in the form of acceptance, love, and belongingness.
		At some point, no matter if you're black, white, or red, you need to give up being a professional victim, which your guest has definitely accomplished.
		I'd be fortunate to rub shoulders with such a person.
		I'd also like to thank your guest for helping me to not feel cheated for being cultureless in America and say thanks again, Art.
		Your diversity never ceases to amaze me.
		That is from Hawaii.
		From Gary, the following comment.
		Your guest is so far off that it is pathetic.
		Emmanuel has made the assumption that race is synonymous with culture.
		This view is horribly defective.
		I am a Bavarian American, my girlfriend, African American.
		We march through life in step.
		In fact, she's listening to the show tonight, laughing at your guest.
		I would ask your guest to demonstrate that Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas is of the same culture as Snoopy Dog Dog, or show me how Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams are in any way related to people such as Rodney King.
		Or on the flip side, show me how I am of the same culture as Charles Manson or Ted Bundy or Hillbillies in Appalachia.
		What's destroying minorities in general in America is their culture, not their race.
		And then he dares me to read it on the air.
		You want to comment?
unidentified		No.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		No?
		Sounds like he's nuts.
		I never insinuated that color was a problem.
		He is confusing something that he might have heard me say earlier, but it isn't worthy of comment.
		And Bavarian married to African, I don't know what that means, and if it didn't make very much difference, the fact that there are different kinds of people, I'd like to ask that fact, the individual that wrote that facts, why it would even enter his mind to explain that they were different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Let's go to our West of the Rockies line.
		You're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
		Hello.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Hello, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you?
		I'm in Los Angeles.
		Yes, sir.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And I've lived about half my life in Los Angeles, half in Detroit.
		I'm here in Detroit.
		And I'm 54 years old.
		And by the way, how old is Emmanuel?
		47.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		47.
unidentified		Oh, okay, good.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
		Emmanuel, Detroit being 80% black and having lived in Detroit, well, you know, you can vary the numbers.
		I don't know how much your estimate is of the black population there.
		But it was almost, you know, one thought, a town.
		And in my estimation, it became almost backwards after the 60s.
		Slight destructed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, had you any idea that you were going to somehow break out of the mold or get away from Detroit in a way which allowed yourself to be free-thinking, you know, it was almost impossible to do it there.
		I can understand where you come from by going to Oregon, you know.
		Well, I didn't come to Oregon right away.
		I have gradually moved and I wasn't leaving blacks.
		I was leaving pathology that I observed from my front porch, the crime, the hell, the stealing, the kind of things that no individual, regardless of color, wants to live around.
		And let me tell you, one of the most threatening things, it seems to me, one of the most threatening things, especially to white liberals, is a black who's free thinking.
		That's right.
		Who thinks for himself.
		If you think for one second that Clarence Thomas, who, while I love him, he's a good friend of mine, I would not have intermarried.
		That's his own personal business.
		I love him no less because he did.
		But if you think for one second that his free thinking didn't scare the hell out of American liberals who have for years guided blacks in their thinking, guided them towards the failure and the hostility that we champion in nearly every program that you see on TV for blacks.
		And yet they don't champion it for their own kids.
		And so I say to you that I am used to, for 12 or 15 years now, whites who look at me and say, how dare you separate from your people?
		How dare you think for yourself and be as you want to be and find appreciation in a white program like Bonanza as though it were not profitable for there to be values there.
		Well, this is what happened to me.
		And I'm fond of I've been calling shows for years talking about the fact that you don't sound much like this contrast that I was looking for.
unidentified		Contrast?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, Emmanuel, stop it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not looking for anything in particular.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You were looking for contrast.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Here's a contrast for you.
unidentified		I used to be black.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're making too many assumptions, Emmanuel, about that.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You said that word, contrast.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		That's not an assumption.
unidentified		You said it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't recall saying contrast.
		I think I said that I was looking for people in the area that you came from.
		I think that's what I said.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Well, I want to introduce you to millions and millions of black Americans who have transcended that thinking, who read my magazine, who call and write my office on a daily basis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, let's try this.
		Are you concerned about hearing from people from Detroit?
		And if so, why?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I'm concerned about your seeking for it.
unidentified		Why?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I'm concerned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why, why?
		Emmanuel, hold it.
		Hold it.
		Hold it, hold it.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Emmanuel, hold it a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If Destiny Magazine is to reach out and to teach people what you say you have learned, then it is exactly those people that you would want to be reaching, isn't it?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		But we haven't talked about Destiny Magazine.
		We've talked about interracial marriages.
		Well, we have, but nearly half of the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But Destiny, my program is not half over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's five hours for your information.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so now, Destiny Magazine, I take it, and I did ask you this earlier, is it not a way, don't you recall my asking, is Destiny not your way of reaching out to talk to the people that are in the situation you were in and in effect tell them how you did it?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		No, it's basically an alternative to what exists in the black press.
		It is points the direction to a reality that is not prevalent, the spoken about, talked about, sung about in our community.
		It is a different way of looking at the issues.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Emmanuel's way.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And that's all it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Emmanuel's way.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Emmanuel's way, Clarence Thomas's way, Thomas Sowell's way, Walter Williams' way, and many, many millions of black Americans who we can't name.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you said free thinker a while ago.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes, free thinker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Freethinker.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I'm ashamed of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does freethinker mean or translate to conservative politically?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		On some things?
		Free is free.
		It's a very simple word.
		I don't think the way I want to think.
		My thinking isn't governed by what somebody else thinks.
		I don't think according to somebody else's approval.
		I do not mind challenges at all to my thinking.
		I am extremely secure in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's just that it sounded like an acronym in your case for conservative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the people that you named.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You reached that conclusion in your own head.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Only based on the people that you named.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		What did I say was conservative?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you named Enoch.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Thomas Soul is an economist, a brilliant economist.
		Walter Williams is a brilliant professor at George Mason University.
		Clarence Thomas is a Supreme Court justice, quite adept at the law and the Constitution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And quite conservative politically.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what you call him.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I see him as brilliant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, there can be free thinkers.
		I'm a conservative politically.
		But there can be free thinkers on both sides, I believe, in both ideologies and extremes in both ideologies.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You consider yourself conservative?
unidentified		You have problems with blacks and dark living the ghetto.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
		No, no.
		When did I say that?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You appear to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When?
		I'll even re-qualify that.
		What did I say that led you to believe that?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Well, what I've been hearing is challenges to the decisions that I've made and the seeking for contrast.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And I say to you that you're going to be shocked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Emmanuel, if you would like me to seek out and find people who just agree with you, I can do that.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We can open the lines and say, only people, only people.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I would have never restricted the line from the east to people in Detroit alone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the East is full of people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see, though, I'm running the show.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You know, I'm looking.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I'm not looking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're absolutely right.
		I'm running the show, and so I'm seeking people from Detroit.
		Not for what you call contrast, but I thought, rather, to let you talk with the people from the exact same area that you came from.
		For what?
		So that, for what I presume to be the same reason that you publish Destiny Magazine.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Which is in every state of the union.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's fine.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		That's fine.
unidentified		It is in every state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, this is your bio.
		You sent it to me.
		You're the one who spent a lot of time talking about Detroit and the time you spent in Detroit and how you got out of there and why you went out of there and we talked about the first hour.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I've been gone from there for 25 years.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't know how to get around in it now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		No.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You're sick-fated to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not.
		No, I'm not.
		And let us go to that line.
		You're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		I have a question for Emmanuel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Where are you, sir?
		Call the wildcard lines, area 702-727-1295.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I don't even know who he is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was just a stupid waste of time, Emmanuel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the first-time caller line, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
unidentified		Hello, Mr. McLittle.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		I'm going to share my radio down here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, by the way?
unidentified		I'm just outside of Portland, Oregon, in Vancouver, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're close.
unidentified		How are you, sir?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		It's beautiful country up there, isn't it?
unidentified		It's gorgeous.
unidentified		I'm sorry I didn't hear what part of Oregon you were in, but the whole state is beautiful, so I hope you're doing it.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Near the Grants Pass-Metford area.
unidentified		Uh-huh, Southern, yes, yes.
		It's beautiful down there.
		Yes, it is.
		I have a question, sir.
		I respect everything you've done, and I commend you for making something of yourself.
		My question is, I am involved in an interracial marriage.
		My husband is 45.
		I'm 37 and Caucasian.
		It is our second marriage.
		I was 25 when we were married.
		I was pregnant at the time.
		We had been seeing each other a couple of years.
		And I find what you're saying about the naturalness of non-interracial marriages, I don't get the naturalness of it.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Well, you see, I don't want to get too psychological and talk to you about your personal relationship.
		I'm just saying a decision that you made that I wouldn't make.
		That's all I have to say about that.
		I wouldn't do that.
		But there is sometimes there are conflicts with people of the same race that should not be ran from, should be dealt with.
		There even ought to be a struggle not to leave.
		That there is something to learn about each individual during this struggle.
		And the tendency to run away from it is a dead giveaway that there is something about yourself, not your mate, that you don't want to see.
		And if life isn't about seeing and developing as a result of progressively more seeing, then it isn't anything.
		So the reason that I wouldn't do it is because I think that marriage is the second opportunity for us to deal with parents, peers, all over again from a mature point of view.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Emmanuel.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		We handled it all right when we were eight, but there was another chance to do it when we were 25 or 26.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Emmanuel.
unidentified		No, I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ma'am, hold on, just one second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Emmanuel, to be fair, you said you kind of gone from you are against the whole concept.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you were getting down to where you were saying.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Salmon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you were saying on an individual basis, you know, that's their choice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I wanted to make it clear, again, that you did say that you were against the entire concept.
unidentified		I said it again.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, fair enough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You lady, if I live next door to you, and we were friends, I'm sure we could be.
		That change, because you married outside your race.
		Right, no.
unidentified		But I understand, but don't you feel, let me tell you that I have an 18-year-old son who is black, a 17-year-old daughter who is white, and we have a 12-year-old who is a little bit of everything.
		And, you know, marriage at its best is work.
		And I think that's true regardless of races involved.
		What I would like to say is that our marriage has brought a tremendous amount of diversity into my life and to my husband's life.
		And it has genuinely strengthened our marriage.
		The work we've had to do around people's personal opinions and how we've dealt with that on an individual and together.
		Our marriage has worked for going on 13 years now and it's strengthened it.
		And the diversity that he's brought into my life, I am very, very thankful for.
		And had I married a man of my own race, I wouldn't have that in my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, ma'am.
unidentified		Thank you.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Let me just say one other thing.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Had you married a man of your own race, you may have been forced to deal with unresolved conflicts with your dad.
unidentified		Oh, well, okay.
		I disagree with you, sir.
		And I just, I find a tremendous amount of personal paranoia around some of the things.
		I mean, that's, I hear a tremendous amount of paranoia in some of your responses.
		And, you know, I was just questioning that.
		Thank you, Art.
		I appreciate you allowing me the time.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		The best of luck to you, lady.
unidentified		Thank you, sir.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're welcome.
		So there are differences.
		And to some degree, Emmanuel, I find you also overreactive to some of this.
		You know, overreactive to some of this.
unidentified		How so?
unidentified		How so?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		How overreactive?
		I simply see what I see.
		And I say what I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's fine.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And I'm not a nice guy.
		I say what I see.
		I'm a real free thinker.
		I hope to make friends with Art Bell.
		But I'm going to say exactly what I see coming out of Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Just as I would, the guy that I stand in back of in the grocery store, I'd probably be a little more friendly.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Emmanuel, where?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I detect some.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Emmanuel.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I'm not right here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Emmanuel.
		We've got a break.
		It's the top of the eye.
		We have no choice on that one.
		It's the clock coming.
		And it's relentless.
		So we'll be right back.
unidentified		The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		We'll be right back.
		We'll be right back.
		We'll be right back.
		listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's broadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell was recorded on December 20th, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest, Emmanuel McLittle, publisher, editor of Destiny Magazine.
unidentified		Grew up in Detroit, lives now in Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does not believe in mixed marriages.
		Thinks there's something inherently wrong with them.
		Does not want reparations, money, nor land for blacks.
		Describes himself as a free thinker.
		And it has produced quite a conversation.
		and it's going to continue in just a moment.
unidentified		Skiss
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		Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Premier Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to Emmanuel McLittle.
		Emmanuel, welcome back.
		Thank you.
		Let's try a different tact here.
		Move away from the mixed marriages for a second and move toward our educational system, okay?
		In America, we had segregated schools for the most part in our early years.
		Then Martin Luther King and so forth.
		Marches, change, laws, equal rights amendments, et cetera, et cetera.
		To the degree the Supreme Court finally ordered that schools be integrated, if necessary by forced integration.
		Bussing.
		What is your view of the mixing of the races in school by forced integration?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Well again my views simply square with what's happening now.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		It is not uncommon for us to see high school graduates who cannot read at a sixth grade level.
unidentified		True.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And this is not happening to a few.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Both countries.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		This is happening to a lot of students.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Both kinds.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And so the solution to educating and developing, which is the purpose of education, to develop young people into strong, whole, happy, and balanced adults, is not working.
		So integrating schools isn't the thing.
		And another shocker, neither is education.
		We needed to learn how to make contact with the technology that is prevalent in our world.
		We needed to read, we needed to write, we needed to add, subtract, and multiply.
		But what makes human beings, human beings, begins long before a child gets to school.
		And when a child doesn't get this ingredient that comes from a whole family or a particularly loving mother or a particularly loving father, then it's possible to go all the way to desertation time at doctorial school and be a fool.
		If education was the solution to all of our problems in society, then we would be hard pressed to explain how the nation is in the mess that it's in in view of the fact that very educated, the best educated lawyers and lawmakers run our country.
		Washington is full of them.
		There is a Rhodes Scholar in the White House, but education didn't do it for him.
		You see, something's wrong with our president.
		He cannot see, he cannot even see that he's moving in the wrong direction.
		He thinks he's moving in the right direction.
		And his degrees didn't fix that.
		So while I am a recipient myself of a lot of education, most of what I've learned in life had nothing to do with degrees and credentials and school books.
		That only helped me to write it and explain it.
		But it didn't help me to be it.
unidentified		that was a cool speech but it kind of um...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it didn't to my satisfaction.
		Or maybe I just need to rephrase it.
		In other words, you think that there should not be integration in the schools.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't say that at all.
		I said integration didn't change.
		Didn't help.
unidentified		didn't help now with no because Yes.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		So then, Because now we are back to, in Milwaukee, like our next cover story will say, certain magnet schools that give inner city kids a choice.
		And some of them are choosing all black schools.
		And in some cases, all black male schools.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Like St. Aloyas.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Emmanuel, why is that better?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I didn't say that it was better.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I'm saying what we are seeing is that reading scores, SAT scores improve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I asked you if it made it worse, and you said yes.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I said that.
unidentified		I said yes.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I said to look to integration for a solution that isn't there made it worse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		So not the actual fact of the integration, but to look to that as a solution made it worse.
		Is that correct?
unidentified		No.
unidentified		Dog on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm having a hard time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess I'm just not getting it.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		If we have been living in the time of wise men, wise men would have told us in the early 60s that to mix white and black children together does not necessarily ensure proper education.
		That proper education can occur in an all-black classroom, in an all-white classroom, in a mixed classroom, in any kind of classroom.
		It isn't the racial mixture in the classroom curriculum, whether or not the children are coming to school from homes prepared to learn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Emmanuel, why, arguably, one thing you did agree on, I hope you agreed on it earlier, I said race relations now in America are getting worse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think you agreed with that, didn't you?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We now have more or less integrated schools.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So why are race relations getting worse?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think race relations are getting worse because this might be a little kajinxed, but in the 60s, we didn't do what many other groups who've come to this country and who were, in any instances, discriminated against.
		There are some people that simply pulled their belts tight, ignored, walked around the discrimination, built their economies, built hospitals, built factories, became very independent, and wreaked discrimination and don't give a damn about who don't like them.
		And instead of doing that, blacks were encouraged by a liberal elite who couldn't stand us then, hate us even worse now, to go into a very different direction and beat against the infrastructure of government as a way of addressing our problems.
		It didn't work.
		It was the wrong direction.
		And now we still aren't there.
		And we have $300 billion that sprinkle through our fingers every year.
		And we still aren't there.
		It was the wrong direction.
		And if we had simply looked at racism for what it was, and I said it, facts to you, or I think I said something to you that racism doesn't have the power that we're all trying to pretend it does.
		It doesn't have the power because if it does, there could be no Emmanuel McLittle's or Will Chamberlains or O.J. Simpens or Clarence Trump.
		There could be none of us, you see.
		So, and we're not extraordinary people.
		We're just normal, ordinary, run-of-the-mill people who made it around what must have been some degree of racism.
		I don't know how much racism I incurred because I never looked.
unidentified		I was busy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
unidentified		Good morning, Emmanuel.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, sir.
unidentified		Grew up on Mack Avenue.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Oh, on the east side.
unidentified		Well, I live in Bloomfield Hills now.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You too have made a transition.
unidentified		Sort of.
		Yes.
		Art wouldn't necessarily be aware of the cap, but one of the things, gentlemen, I'd like to point out is, you know, I think you both got a little bit of sidetracked on some of the other issues here.
		But in your magazine, Destiny, which I have occasionally read, unfortunately I'm not a regular reader.
		I think I will become one.
		The issue that really is important here, Art, I think, is how blacks who don't view liberal ideas and racism as the primary determinant of the outcome of their life can overcome that.
		Mm-hmm.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I do agree with that.
		I do agree with that.
		The sidetrack areas that we've been into occur in his views regarding interracial marriage and that sort of thing.
		So I'm not sure if that's a sidetrack.
unidentified		I have a divergent view from yours, Emmanuel.
		I think that black, particularly black males, have a benefit, Rodney King notwithstanding, when it comes to women, particularly black women.
		Black women are a universe of diversity, ranging from ebony, beautiful black women to women who look like Marilyn Monroe, who are black.
		Were you aware of that, Eric?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Okay.
		Now, so I have a problem with, you know, taking a hard position.
		I'm married to a Cape Verdean woman who's very fair but more African than me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, Emmanuel?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You know, I don't have any comment on this man's choice of marriage.
		I'm glad to hear that he is a light sinker and that he is not only not on Mac Avenue no more, and he and I know what Mac Avenue is like.
		They had good corned beef down on Mac Avenue, but a lot of other things there, too.
unidentified		I appreciate your call.
		One question I would have for you, Emmanuel, and that is, how has objectivism and maybe ideas from people like Ayn Rand, I loved her writing.
		I thought she did.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I loved her writing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my friend.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		What about welfare?
		Emmanuel, if you were the welfare czar or the one who could change it in our lifetimes, as we've known it, as the president has not yet done, which he promised he would do, what would you do with welfare?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how much time I would give individuals to get off of it, but I think that in a future world, it wouldn't exist.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I have never had it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is now the debate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much of the future world should we continue to devote to the welfare of society?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You know, we're not Burmia, anything like that.
		We do have enough wealth in this country to take care of obvious.
		You know, I would want to see a 75-year-old woman who's blind and live alone and doesn't have any money and getting robbed every three or four days.
		There's something that we can do.
		I don't know that I would even give her welfare.
		I would hope all of my hopes and aspirations has to do with the changing of people's hearts and minds.
		And that in my future world, her family, her neighbors, would make the kind of sacrifice out of simple love for the woman that she could live very comfortably and very secure.
		But we, not only do we not want to help our neighbors, we throw our parents away.
		We throw our parents in places where they're beaten and abused.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good question for you, Emmanuel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why are there cultural differences between blacks and whites?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I know that there are huge cultural differences.
		I think that we all live in a culture called American culture, and that blacks have been encouraged to reject it.
		And we've been encouraged to reject it, not because we genuinely hate it, but because this is another point that I've listened to you and I know that you disagree with, but I must say that I learned the lesson as early as 10 years old, living on a block where I didn't have the money to buy a bike, never had a bike until I got to be an adult.
		But there was another kid on the same block who had a beautiful 10-speed.
		I mean, I hadn't heard anything about a three-speed, but this guy had a 10-speed, beautiful red.
		I wanted it.
		And the inference that we sometimes hear that there is no one that wants to control the wealthiest, the most powerful, the most obviously gifted nation in the world is a fallacy.
		There are people who want to change us.
		There are people who want to manipulate, to deal with us, to put us down.
		And I say Part of my reasons for being and doing what I do is I want to see large numbers of my kind racially on the right side of a great struggle that I believe is coming to this country.
		I don't want us to be on the side of those people that I intuitively know hate our guts.
		And we misconstrue who those people are.
		We traditionally think that the haters of blacks are conservatives.
		But the true haters are very, very Marxist in their thinking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's go to Florida.
		You're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
		Hello.
		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm calling from Sarasota, Bill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sarasota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Bill.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		This fellow, what's his name again?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Emmanuel McLittle.
unidentified		Hello, sir.
		Emmanuel McLittle made a mention before of something that is crucial to what he's talking about.
		That's really the basic reason for what, for all the other things you were talking about now, are just scurving the issue.
		And he mentioned it before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lay it out.
unidentified		The home.
		The home, you graduate from high school.
		Say you graduate or you don't graduate, but you grow up, you have children, and you have no idea, except for maybe from your parents, maybe taught you a little bit here and there and what you saw around you.
		But do you ever get educated when you get married, you have children, what to do with that child?
		All the education covers everything, but it doesn't teach you how to raise a child.
		Yes.
		Properly.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		This is where it starts.
		Yes.
		This is the beginning.
		This is actually the beginning.
		If you don't have that, all the cultural differences don't make a dime.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And if you don't have it, in the first 12 years of life, you're out of the oven and almost done.
		I can't tell you.
		I wish I had three more hours to tell you the suffering, the psychologically skent knees, the hurting that I've done, the overcoming of certain blocks in my own mind, getting beyond my own troubles.
		And it all came from having never experienced a whole happy environment.
		And this is an embarrassing thing for black people to talk about.
		But it must be discussed.
		Because if we continue...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here is where I want to stop you for a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We all know bad stats in the black community.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		25% of blacks in jail or on parole, whatever it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Families broken up, numbers of single family households, black women pregnant and early, all the rest of it.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why is that, Emmanuel?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that cultural or is that because of racism?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I don't think it's for racism at all.
		I think that in the early 1900s there was for black America the same scenario that existed for Emmanuel standing on their porch on 12th and Claremount.
		I had to make a decision and I wrestled with that decision for three days.
		That car was the only thing that I had, and yet it was the only thing that I could sell, let go, and move and change my destiny.
		We had an opportunity to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now you're back to telling me about Emmanuel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm asking you why the black community is so right.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		to do a little bit is listen more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I have, listen, I have been laying back.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		We had a similar decision to make in the 1890s and 1900s.
		And they were actually, the different routes were presented to us in the form of W.E.P. DeBose and Booker T. Washington.
		One suggested that we overlook, that we get over our pain of slavery and begin to work hard to develop trade, to go to school, to become lawyers and doctors and build our own destiny and fortunes.
		And another one suggested to us, let's start the NAACP so that they can collect funds from liberals and work to provide for us a means to beat against government in protest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		Hold it right there.
		We'll be back to you.
		Emmanuel McLittle is my guest, founder, publisher, editor-in-chief of Destiny Magazine.
		There is more to come.
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
		I love you.
		You do.
		You keep on me.
		I keep on me.
		You do.
		You're my girl.
		Give it up.
		You keep on me.
		You keep on me.
		Give it up.
		You keep on me.
		Give it up.
		You keep on me.
		When you feel nothing called, you gotta hug Captain at the Halo.
		If you like a cut, I won't get...
		Sounds of a sound Sounds of a sound Sounds of a sound Sounds of a sound Sounds of a sound *Sounds of a
		sound*
		Sounds of a sound
		Premier Networks present Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired December 20th, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		Good to be with you.
		We're talking with Emmanuel McLittle.
		He is my guest.
		He is the editor, publisher, chief guy at Destiny Magazine.
unidentified		and we'll get back to him in just a moment.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's broadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell was recorded on December 20, 1995.
		Music
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to Emmanuel McLittle.
		Emmanuel, you said I should listen a little more.
		I think that translates to you wish I agreed with you a little more.
		In other words, I am hearing what you're saying, and I am comprehending it.
		I'm not necessarily agreeing with you fully, which you're feeling, I know.
		But I think if you look back on the amount of time that I've spoken that I have spoken, we began at 11, we're two and a half hours into it now, I would bet that you had more airtime than I've had.
		So you're getting your say, are you not?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I haven't measured.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I'm having fun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Here comes another call.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Loveland, Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Good evening.
		Mr. McLittle, I have read your magazine and enjoyed it.
		Two issues you've brought up I feel very strongly about.
		One I agree and the other I disagree with you.
		First of all, when it comes to liberals, you couldn't be more right.
		I feel that conservatives use their power and resources to empower big government and big business to continue exploiting people.
		And liberals, on the other hand, find ways to pacify the serf class in America, otherwise known as the poor, to keep them from revolting against this system.
		So I appreciate what you have to say, and I think you're quite right on.
		However, when it comes to mixed-race marriages, I think you couldn't be more wrong.
		I'm a member of a multicultural family.
		I have Asians, Native Americans, and Afro-Americans and Caucasians.
		My husband is Afro-American, and my children range from, we have four, blonde and blue-eyed to ebony black.
		And we didn't marry because we have psychological problems we needed to work out.
		And our marriage wouldn't have lasted as long as it has or been as successful if our marriage was based solely on physical attraction.
		And I feel that when people see us or meet us and are bothered by the choices we have made, it's because the fact that we are in attack.
		Like you.
		I don't know if this marriage until you've attacked it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, one of you, hold it, one at a time here, or we can't hear you.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said something in manual?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I care nothing about who this lady marries.
unidentified		I think you're concerned for society in general and what will progress it and what will hurt it.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you an honest question.
unidentified		Sure.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Do you see the good that you've described in your marriage to be dominant and mixed marriages?
unidentified		Yes.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I don't.
unidentified		Well, I do.
		And I've seen stats that prove that, unlike the stats you quoted, which cite the opposite.
		And the majority of my friends are in a similar situation to mine, as are the majority of my family members.
		And I see only positive outcome as a result of the message.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you one more.
		Can I ask you one more?
		I wonder how you would explain the fact that throughout the entire history of the world, nearly everyone marries a person from their own race.
		Why is that?
unidentified		I think if it's true, that's because they have limited choices.
		For example, if I grew up in Asia, the majority of people I meet and encounter are Asian.
		And I don't know there are a lot of threats.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You know what I'm saying?
unidentified		I know what I'm trying to do.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Everybody that's ever lived married their own kind.
		You think that that's crazier than the opposite?
		I mean, how do you explain that?
		I'm trying to find how you're going to be able to do that.
unidentified		I'm explaining it by saying we have, oftentimes, we have limited choices.
unidentified		Fortunately, I grew up in an area where I had a variety of choices and a variety of people I could get to know and interact with, and it broadened my horizon.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		But it still happens in America, where we have one big part in America, and yet most people marry their own kind.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And you think that it's because they have limited choices?
unidentified		If most people engage in a certain activity, it doesn't condemn it, nor does it make it right.
		In America, something's wrong with people who think we should be limited in our choices of our friendships, and marriage is based on skin color.
		Oh.
		period.
		And as I was going to say, I think what dollars Well, I think you're trying to imply that there should be a limit on marriage, and marriage is preceded by friendship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or followed by.
		One of the two.
		All right, ma'am.
		Thank you very much.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, I don't know if I was getting into our beltware.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are.
unidentified		Oh.
		You're on the air.
		How are you, sir?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		This is Otter Reno, Nevada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		This is old Tom B. Ashley the son of William A. This is Thomas A here talking at you.
		Give you another clue with old William S. Well, look, sir, do you have a question?
		Uh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, go ahead.
unidentified		Well, what do you got going on tonight besides old sick Willie over there in Bosnia?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll see you later, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		I ding dongs, Mr. Bell.
unidentified		This is Pete in Portland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pete, yes.
unidentified		Yes, and hello, Mr. McLittle.
unidentified		Hello, sir.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
unidentified		I correctly perceive that you have no desire for mixed marriages or see a good reason for them, but you do not condone the breakup of people who are, you know, trying to respect each other and make the best of whatever their situation is.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Not in the least.
		In fact, I think I have to reveal something to you quite personal.
		There is mixed marriages in my own family.
		And once...
		Once the marriage has taken place, you never give it up.
unidentified		Exactly.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Regardless of who you're married to.
unidentified		Well, let me tell you a little something about myself.
unidentified		My father was the Assistant Executive Secretary of the Michigan Education Association.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Which is me.
unidentified		Yes.
		And the Executive Secretary of the Oregon Education Association.
		That's his.
		And he, as a labor union leader, is obviously a socialist.
		He's the one who tutored me at the age of three and four in algebra and mathematics and phonetics because I was reading the Dick Jane and Spotted stuff because I was having trouble in school.
		He's the one who told me that American education was woefully inadequate compared with European education.
		He grew up in Germany.
		Now, we went round and round about what was going on in America, vis-a-vis unions and socialism in general.
		And I've come to discover that this socialist welfare state we have now is actually based on the model of plantation socialism.
		And the thing about it is the divisions between us are not by color.
		They're by who works in the big house and who is the field hand.
		Everybody else who's not in the government, in other words.
		Yes.
		Do you agree with that?
		No.
		No, you don't.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I think there is a bigger difference between us.
		And I don't, I'm not a religious person at all.
		I attend no church.
		I worship no way except in a small room in my home, sitting still.
		But I think underneath all of the issues that we fight about is those of us who accept a false bogus notion that we climbed out of some pool of smot rather than the fact that there is an intelligence in the universe that created us.
		I think that that difference is the greatest difference between us.
		That we love or hate each other on this earth.
		That underneath all of the wars where we seem to be fighting about things like economy and borders and territories, the truth, and I believe I've seen this in history, the truth is that there's always a side that has a view of our origin different than the other.
		That to me is a greater difference underneath our consciousness because we talk enough about what we all know in our conscious mind, but there's so much stuff underneath there that we frequently don't say anything about.
		And I think that, is there something bigger than us in the universe?
		And are we different than animals?
		And each of us have decided that on our owns individually, and we cling to or divide from each other in many instances based on that unconscious question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Emmanuel, back to the phones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Hello, Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
		All right.
		Well, first of all, Art, you asked him a question in the last half hour about why the percentage of black men is high in crime and everything else.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I think I have the answer to that.
		I don't understand why it hasn't came about before.
		If you have, say you have 10 white men and two black men, one white man commits a crime and one black man commits a crime.
		In the black race, that's 50%.
		In the white race, that's 10%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, sir, your numbers are incorrect because when we talk about the percentages, we're talking per capita.
		We're not talking the kind of numbers you're talking about.
		Is that correct, Emmanuel?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's correct.
		And this is quite blunt, but many of those who are in jail who happen to be black, they're there because they committed crimes.
		And sadly, some of those crimes were committed because for 30 years we've actually been encouraged to.
		And in subliminal ways, we've been given messages that it's okay to hate whites, that it's okay to rape, rob, and steal from them.
		And we can even make songs and rap music and movies that actually depict our hate for whites.
		And we've been encouraged.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that a culture, Emmanuel?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		It's political.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's political?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not a culture.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think.
		Culture is what people eat and the way they think and the way they dress and where they go to church and what...
		This tendency towards indoctrinating people to believe.
		And I think I'm not trying to take all of the responsibility for where blacks are in the world today.
		But there was a lot of it that came from manipulating liberals.
		And liberals is a nice word for what these people who cannot live without controlling other people has done to this group.
		And there's one thing that might be a little bit different in terms of my way of speaking.
		What I don't see, and I'm happy that I don't see it amongst my people, is we do commit serious crimes against each other and whites, but we are not committing the biggest crimes.
		We're not in any of those planning sessions that take place behind closed doors in the UN and Switzerland and The Hague and on some of those submarines where more meetings are held than you can shake a stick at.
		And we are not amongst those people who want to manipulate an entire world into a form that is politically expedient for a very few people.
		We are not committing the largest of the crime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are suggesting there is a kind of a cabal of high-powered people in high-powered places that are setting the agenda for the world.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Much of our agenda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And for blacks along with everybody else.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and blacks is merely a tool to make it happen in the United States.
		And our instability is no coincidence.
		Nobody that loves his country will allow just an area of TV alone to have transmitted those messages that have been transmitted to the minds, especially baby boomers like you and I, Art, and our child.
		Nobody could allow that to happen unless they had bad designs on the country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Quincy, Illinois.
		All right.
		Basically, I have a question, Mr. McLittle.
		I'm of the generation or the offspring of those interracial marriages, and I was curious as to your opinion on basically where we fall into this whole race category.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can't speak specifically about you, you understand, but I do know that anybody with a willingness to read and research knows that during the 60s, a lot of the marriages and the sexual exchange that took place between radical blacks and feminist whites had nothing to do with love or concern for
		the offspring that is now in their mid-20s.
		And these groupings is only one example of what I mean when I say that there is a getting together by different races that is as devious and as dishonest as devious can get.
unidentified		Well, see, that says, or it has the implications that my whole existence is.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Maybe not me.
		I don't want to talk about you personally.
		I don't know your mother or your dad or your...
		I'm talking about a group of people that existed in the 60s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and this is where I think you're dead wrong, Emmanuel.
		There are some marriages that were based, as you suggest.
		There are also interracial marriages that are based on nothing more than any other marriage is based on, and that is mutual attraction, friendship, love, and eventual maturing of that love, or a breakup, whichever way it goes.
unidentified		Let me ask you this, Mr. McLeod.
		Do you think that over the course of time that we should, I guess, evolve away from individual racism, like races, and be as one as a human race?
		I mean, I had someone ask me when I was applying for college what race I categorized myself under.
		And I looked at the man, honestly, said human.
		And he told me not to get smart with them.
		He was very offended.
		And yes, it is a smart comment, but it is also a very true comment.
		And I don't categorize myself as being black or white.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		You make a good point, and I can't tell you what my view would be in a world where we have transcended, God hope, that we do transcend, because we are much more than our skin colors.
		But we are not in that world now, you see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if we remain separate, Emmanuel, we'll never be in any other world.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		It is futile and immature to want to meld the differences by lower skin color when the real differences are at a deeper level.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		The real differences between blacks and whites are not racial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but what you seem to say is that it'd be okay if eventually someday those differences occur naturally, but you are not willing to take that path to get there.
unidentified		Yeah.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think there needs to be a path taken.
		I don't believe that we are like animals.
		I believe that a greater intelligence than you and I has spoiled the colors on this earth and trees, animals, and people.
		And it is not my prerogative, in my view, to try to remove it.
		I think that it is a brilliant design to have the different kinds of people that exist.
		And I think all of those people ought to remain in existence until something smarter than me and you changes it.
unidentified		But see, perhaps that something that's smarter than you and I is our own innate sense of evolution as a humanity.
unidentified		Excuse me?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I think it's bull.
unidentified		All right, there you go.
		That's pretty intelligent right there.
		See, I don't understand why you see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure that response is that of a free thinker.
		I'm sorry, Emmanuel.
		Well, you know, you're welcome to say what you want, as I said, and I'm letting you say what you want.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I don't regard that as necessarily free thinking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that what you call free thinking is conservative thinking, really.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Then you being a conservative, you and I ought to agree on most things, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think we do on a lot of things.
		For example, I agree certainly with you on what the liberals have done to the minorities in this country, not just blacks.
		And I think there has been a very great deal of damage done.
		Where we disagree, apparently, is in the way that this damage can be corrected.
		Listen, we're coming to the top of the hour, Emmanuel.
		And I will give you a choice to either go to sleep gently now or to stay around for another hour.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I'm having more fun now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in that case, stay tuned.
		There's more fun ahead.
		My guest is Emmanuel McLittle.
		He is the editor-in-chief of Destiny magazine.
		He grew up in Detroit in a rough neighborhood, and he got out.
		He is out.
		He's in Oregon now.
		And we're talking about race relations and race generally, and we'll be back and do more of it.
		You're listening to the best in live talk radio.
		That's right, live.
		It's happening right now from the high desert.
		I'm Art Bell.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's broadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell was recorded on December 20, 1995.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 20th, 1995.
		And this is not the home of your normal talk radio.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk a little bit about the shadow government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe it's there?
unidentified		Yeah, we've heard that term, you know, for so many years, and I thought it was this group in the Netherlands that sit behind smoked windows and make decisions like, you know, giant players of chess.
		But it isn't.
		We don't have the government anymore.
		What we have is a loose coalition of bureaucracies, but we have no representation in that government.
		So when I look at the Constitution, I see it as a really inspired and eternal document that has been sidestepped in almost every legal way possible.
		So the process itself has been intentionally manipulated to facilitate a certain style of government.
		And it's taken a while to set up, but I think it's set up now and it's working just the way they like it.
		We need a systemic change in order to let the Republic be representative of the people again.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's broadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell was recorded on December 20, 1995.
		Music My guest, of course, is Emmanuel McLittle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Destiny Magazine.
		We'll tell you at the end of the hour here, once again, how to get a copy of that if you would like it.
		We'll give out the 800 numbers or get a pencil ready.
		Right now, he's back on the air with Charlie.
		Both of you are back on the air again.
unidentified		Well, I was simply saying that conservative policy has simply been devastating to black people, certainly devastating.
		And the worst part of it has been their interference in the criminal justice system.
		When you have conservatives cutting out inner-city programs and saying, let's build more prisons, well, those prisons are putting black people in those prisons.
		And they talk about let's be less lenient with the laws.
		Those black people, a young black person that commits a crime right now, can expect to do a lot more time rather than any type of rehabilitation type program.
		Those are the conservatives who are locking up black people, and it amounts basically to a return to slavery.
		So I'm sure a lot of conservatives are pretty well at that.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You're typically uninformed, and I would suggest to you that most large cities have more black judges sitting on benches than you obviously realize.
unidentified		No, I understand.
unidentified		I understand that.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I've tried to find out.
		Just a second, sir.
		It is mostly black judges sentencing young black men to prison.
		You need to check your facts.
unidentified		Well, you need to check the fact of who's setting the law.
		A judge does not make the law.
		A judge only goes by the law.
		The people that are sitting making the laws are the white guys with the power going, okay, politically, I think it would be better for me if some kid robbed the liquor store for me to give him, say, eight years rather than two years.
		Therefore, I'll look up on him.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		It is conservatives who, despite, regardless of why they did, they left us alone.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		It is you liberals that mellowed all of the life and ingenuity and genius out of us.
unidentified		Is that right?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And yes, it is.
		And I tell you that I've heard a couple of people say that I was angry.
		If there's anything that's capable of upsetting me, it's liberalism.
unidentified		Let me ask you a question.
		Some of the best doctors that we have right in this country are black doctors.
		Isn't that correct?
		When you talk about genius, do you know that a lot of those black doctors took advantage of quote-unquote liberal programs to get into school?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You almost imply.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You almost imply that if liberalism didn't give it to them, they wouldn't be capable of having it.
unidentified		No, but I'll tell you this, in the 19, certainly doctors who have been doctors for 20 or 30 years, that's absolutely correct.
unidentified		If you look, if you go back to the 1960s, how many highly trained black surgeons did we have there?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You know, your kind of such cowards that you're not strong enough to wreak the havoc that you want to wreak on this country because you resent its president.
unidentified		No, no, no, no, no.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You have to use a race of people as a battering ram to get policies through that shape us in a way that none of us can recognize.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I say that there is so much disingenuousness in liberalism.
unidentified		No, no, no, no, no, no.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		It's because it sucks me when I see President Clinton.
unidentified		It's not about giving anybody anything, but it's because we understand that there has to be a ladder in society and that some people in society have a head start over other people.
		Not because they're smarter, not because they're better, but because of who they are and where they were born.
		And let's face it, a white guy born to a rich family, no matter how intelligent he is, is going to have a head start over a black person born in the ghetto surrounded by drugs.
		That's okay.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		But I came from the ghetto.
unidentified		Absolutely.
		There are a lot of successful black people who came from the ghetto.
		How do you explain them?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		How do we explain intelligent black people who came from the ghetto?
unidentified		I think there are just as many intelligent black people born in the ghetto as there are white people born in a rich family.
unidentified		Unfortunately, you have so many factors around you when you are in the ghetto, such as drugs, such as gangs, it's very difficult even for an average person to break out of that.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Let me inform you of something.
		Blacks by the millions are learning something that liberals haven't caught on that we're learning yet.
		And we're changing our minds quietly all over this country.
		And we see you, my friend, for what you are.
		And no, I don't take this personally.
		I'm talking about liberalism.
		I'm not talking about an individual.
		But you are being seen, and you're so blind that you don't know that the bloods and the crips and the gangsters, the blacks that are in jail, we've had 30 years of watching you manipulate us.
		We see you cruelly.
unidentified		Well, I think unfortunately, whether you're talking about extremism from a white extremist such as Tom Metzeker or an extremist like yourself, I don't think that you can speak for the majority of black people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's see.
unidentified		The majority of black people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		all right we'll hold it there uh...
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Common sense owns what I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Truth.
		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
		Where are you?
		St. Paul, Minnesota.
		Okay.
		Art, I don't know what's wrong with you tonight, but I've always been so impressed.
		You know, for the last, we haven't gotten you here that long.
		I think it's a little better than a year.
		But you're not yourself tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How so?
unidentified		It's just something I'm noticing.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		When you were interviewing Harry Brown, you didn't ask him where he lived.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the gentleman that was talking about that, excuse me, in Emmanuel McLittle's bio, which he sent to me, it specifies where he lives.
unidentified		So I didn't have to ask.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		It is part of speaking about the apparent fixation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is part of the story.
		I'm not fixated on it.
		If necessary, Emmanuel, I would be glad to reread for you, word for word, your own words in your own bio, which stresses where you came from.
unidentified		Is that accurate?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't see a stress ended at all.
		That bio is four or five pages, and you might be reading a line or two that mentions where I currently live.
		Well, there's no stress ended at all.
		What I'm happy to see is the number of people that are what I call perceptive, a tool that we need in these very, very slick 90s where so much of what's wrong is being presented as though it were good.
		And it's over the heads of a lot of people.
		But your audience, very intelligent audience, they see things that I sometimes worry, boy, do people see that?
		And people hear what Tom Broke all tried to do today.
		And man, I'm happy lately that so many people see what I see.
		We stand a chance against those people who some of us want to deny exist.
		Many of us see them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the argument that you just had, or the discussion, we'll call it with Charlie, I found myself easily, without strain, on your side.
		You're undeniably right with regard to what liberalism as a political philosophy has done.
		And you're undeniably right that blacks across America are beginning to slowly change their minds.
		They're catching on.
		Yeah, I agree with all that, Emmanuel.
		The only place that you and I differ is in how we are to get ultimately to where the racial differences don't matter.
		and i think that means a mixing of the races and you don't i mean that Yeah, yeah.
		So that is the difference.
		We have similarities.
		We have differences.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
unidentified		Well, how are you, Ark?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		I did, sir.
unidentified		Once again, you shine brighter than the star.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		I'm calling from Greeley, about 50 miles north of Denver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I wanted to ask your guest, first again, how old is he?
		47.
		How old?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		47.
unidentified		47.
unidentified		The woman from Loveland, I really agreed with.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		She talked to you for a while about some of the things that she's from an area, and we have had a very conspicuous thing go on here.
		And it has had some things to do with color over the last decade.
		I really think that you, sir, are on the right track.
		You stand the right ground.
		You even wield the right sword, but you are hacking at the wrong pieces.
		You may be a bit angry.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And if you become, not usually, not usually, I have not developed the ability to be truly objective with a certain kind of person.
		And liberal is not the word to describe them.
		This is one of the deceptions that America has swallowed.
		We think of them as liberal, but they're far more devious than that word would imply.
		And they have no problems upsetting the pillars and signposts that have guided human destinies to healthier ways of existing since the beginning.
		They have no problems separating us from that.
		They are experts at creating a kind of doubt and confusion in individuals and in whole groups of individuals.
		And it's almost like, it's almost like, do you have a computer, sir?
		Do you know what, you ever had a virus?
		You ever seen the way a virus does?
		A computer?
unidentified		Yeah, I knew something about it.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		It wreaks havoc, turns things upside down, makes things go off when they should come on, twists things around.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And this is more like what liberalism has done to a country that had many of the right goals for human beings.
unidentified		In that extent, I tend to agree with you.
		Can I ask you a personal question?
		Yes, sir.
		Do you ever take on temporary help on your ranch?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		On my ranch?
unidentified		Yeah.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Far it's not that big.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		It's only 20 acres.
unidentified		I'd love to come work with you for a week or two when you needed help in the spring or something.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't get rid of you if you ever set foot here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So beautiful.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for the call.
		The employment line does not begin here.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
		Hello.
unidentified		Wow, I got through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow, you got through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		This is James from Santa Rosa.
		Yes, sir.
		Yeah.
		You know, I was listening to you guys talk about the OJ case for a moment.
		And I've been listening to everybody talk about black and white and everything else.
		And it's starting to really burn me.
		And I looked at that case, and I saw a black man on trial.
		And he looked guilty, but then I looked at who was investigating the case, and he couldn't be trusted.
		He couldn't have been trusted to walk a little girl across the street.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You mean Mark Fuhrman?
unidentified		Mark Fuhrman, yes.
		I don't know if he did something wrong or if he did something right.
		All I know is he should never have been on a case investigating that case.
		And to me, that's why the jury said, sorry, we can't trust the evidence.
		We can't convict a man.
		Who cares if he's black or white?
		The problem was with the investigator.
		Yes.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		There's another problem.
		What's that?
		There is another problem that I would like to make a prediction about.
		If he had worked through the problems that every man encounters with his wife, his first one, it would have never occurred.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean O.J.?
unidentified		Yes.
		Oh, I agree with you.
		You know, O.J. Simpson had problems in his life, but that had nothing to do with the jury, other decision as far as I see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but, Emmanuel, here you go again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying that the reason all this happened...
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		No, no, I'm saying...
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		His first wife?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		If he had not left his first wife, it would have never occurred.
		He'd have never married her.
		He just told her to go home.
		I'm a married man.
unidentified		What are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Emmanuel, what if his first wife had been Nicole?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		His first wife wasn't Nicole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand that.
		But you're saying if he had never left his first wife, this never would have occurred.
		That's fine in hindsight.
		And I'm asking you what...
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Work, understand, persevere through that time that's difficult for every couple.
		That's what needs to have happened with OJ, Emmanuel, and many millions of us.
		Something happens, and I characterize that, I marked the time when I said, when the sex gets customary.
		And I was no different than most other people.
		I married my wife at a very young age because simply she was a beautiful woman.
		An 18-year-old beautiful woman.
		And that was the one reason.
		She was also a very, very nice person inside.
		But I didn't discover that for 10 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's no different than many other people.
		And what my argument with you has been all night is that that can be the very same situation with a black man and a white woman, white woman, black man, or brown or any other color, Asian, whatever.
		These same forces come to bear and the same reasons for initial marriage.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And then actually with an added complication.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't deny that, that there may be an added complication, but the same process over years occurs, and either it matures into a real love, or it does not.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You agree that there is an added complication in interracial marriages?
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Only because of the present state of society.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not because of, in other words, that external complication comes because of external pressures.
unidentified		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not because of some basic cultural or significant difference born of skin color.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
unidentified		This is LaFrance from Austin.
		Hello, LaFrance.
		Emmanuel McLittle, I think that you are right on the money with just about everything that you said.
		I think that you're beyond art and art.
		the people that are listening's heads.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		No, not necessarily, my friend.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		There are many, many people who understand.
unidentified		Yes.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		It's a sort of a coded speech called understanding, common sense, that has been ripped from the psyche of most Americans, not by somebody who did it by accident.
unidentified		I agree.
		I totally agree with what you say.
		But what I have to contain myself with Art is that he tries to rip you apart.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Only because he disagrees and he disagrees vehemently on perhaps something that he's dealing with himself.
		And this is the reason that even you, when you make contact with people in your life that disagree with you, don't get too upset.
		There are other reasons that they disagree.
		Yes.
		And you don't know...
unidentified		Yes, I am black.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		As you sit down and talk to the average white man, guess what you'll find?
		He has the same fears, the same struggles, and life has an opposing wind against his face as it does to yours.
		And you'll find yourself easy to make friends and identify with people and not even see their color anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Emmanuel, we've got to hold it there.
		Clock says, bottom of the hour.
		We'll be right back.
		Emmanuel McLittle is my guest.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast A.M. The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast A.M. More somewhere in time coming up.
		Thank you.
		Premier Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired December 20th, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest, Emmanuel McLittle, founder, publisher, editor-in-chief, big guy at Destiny Magazine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we'll get back to him in a moment.
unidentified		Take Coast to Coast AM with you anywhere on your mobile phone.
		Coast2CoastAM.com can be conveniently accessed on your iPhone and most Android platforms, which means that you are never without your Coast to Coast AM fix.
		If you're a Coast to Coast Insider subscriber, you can listen to the show live in the middle of the night or previous shows 24-7.
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		Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Art Bell We're back to it now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Emmanuel, are you there?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I am here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got a good, strong constitution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to make all five hours here.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I loved every minute of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad.
		All right.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
unidentified		Hello.
		Oh, hi, Art.
		This is Ed.
		I'm calling from San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Ed.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Listen, there's one thing I wasn't quite sure until tonight, but there's one thing I'm convinced of for sure, and that Art Bell has the best show ever.
unidentified		This program is the most exciting that I've ever heard, far or none.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate it.
unidentified		I really thank you for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I think there's a way to look at the conflict and understanding.
		I think Manuel is speaking in terms of concepts or a more right-brain approach, and you're speaking In specifics, or a left-brain approach.
		And a number of the callers have tried to point this out.
		I think the emphasis on the racial aspect is really sort of taken away from the message that he has.
		And what I'd do is I'd like to ask a question of Emmanuel.
		How do you feel about the no-fault divorce?
		My feeling on that is that it's not Wait a minute, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You asked him how he felt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let him answer.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		It didn't help us very much.
		You've heard me say several times that there comes a period when difficulty and all of the fantasies that we went into the decision to select some of our mates is stripped away six, eight, nine, ten, twelve years for some people.
		A difficulty arises that is painful, confusing, and sometimes puts in us a fight response.
		And usually we run away from a pain that we don't want to face.
		It is exactly the pain that we need to face that gives us a boost into that second layer of maturity that is in everyone if we would just stay.
		And there are other things in life that does it, you know, basic training.
		There's a lot of things that does it.
		But one thing for sure that does the most for men and women to reach this level of maturity and perceptiveness is weathering that storm.
		And if I've done anything right in my life, I'm married to my wife for 28 years, February 16th.
		And it has been stormy.
		But recently, there is a friendship growing that I wouldn't exchange for anything.
unidentified		Boy, that's really refreshing.
		You know, you listen to all the talk shows, you listen to these psychologists that come on the air.
		The attitude is, basically, if you got a problem, then ditch the guy.
		If you don't feel like the relationship is working, then ditch them.
		And that seems to be the attitude.
		I've been married for 29 years.
		My wife got a lot of money, and now she's decided to get a divorce.
		And I talk to psychologists, whoever I can talk to, and they all just say, well, if she wants a divorce, there's nothing you can do about it.
		And it really, I understand the reason for the court systems and whatever from the no-fall divorce, but you talk about the basics of the family, the ability to greet those issues and to learn who you are.
		And I think that even more than any racial kinds of difficulties, I think the no-fall divorce has really, really hurt that problem.
		I call it no blame or irresponsible divorce is the way I call it.
		You don't even get a chance to do it.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Do what you can to be patient with your wife.
		Park your car outside our new house.
		And if you loved her, make sure that if she separates from you, she doesn't do it with a firm knowledge that you loved in a way that she cannot duplicate.
		She won't die a happy death, my friend.
		I'm not saying to wish that honor, but don't yourself give up on it.
		Something may have happened to her.
		We're not inside each other's minds.
		We can't make judgments about.
		You can't even make a judgment about your wife.
		I don't know your particular situation, but follow her to work.
		Get on the freeway and get behind her.
		29 years, don't let it go so easy.
		Make your wife know that there's a love, deep love for her in your own self.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now you're sounding more like the psychologist.
		But that's all right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Alicia calling from Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yeah, listen on a scale of 1 to 10, Emmanuel.
		10.
		I am so pleased to hear from a man, a human being, and a black that seems to have a lot of rationale.
		And it seems like you've been paying attention.
		And you know what I'd give the credit to is actual raw experience.
		And that you're giving this back to your race, letting them know that it's the internal combustion, that they must do it, that our handouts, and I've been so sick of this, Emmanuel, I've called and talked until I'm blue in the face.
		You can't keep giving handouts and demand a person to be responsible.
		You cannot spoil children and expect them to be obedient.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Because the stress that comes up through the trunk of a tree and stretches its limbs out to be huge is similar to the same kind of stress that's in human beings.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And if you don't let that stress force you to create ways to get your own food, your own housing, so many other things in the wonderful psyche that God has given us never happens, never grows.
unidentified		Absolutely not.
		It takes oppression and resistance.
		The men should know because they go to a gym and they work out on equipment to force pressure against the muscle.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		To build definition.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I wish they'd do the same for their hearts.
		I don't see a nation full of men.
		I see a nation of feminized men who love comfort and won't stand up, won't have conviction, don't stick with their women and children.
		That's our whole problem, isn't it?
unidentified		Emmanuel, I hope you can reach your people because I can't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much, ma'am, for the call.
		Emmanuel, one great argument going on in this country right now about social services involves exactly how we get people off welfare.
		And everybody wants to change welfare, hates it the way it is, understands the damage, the profound damage it is doing.
		But we're a nation now, particularly in the black community, but whites too, filled with single-family households, mom, two, or three or fourteen kids, whatever.
		And when we, whether it's now or two years from now, take mom off AFDC or welfare, there are infants ranging down to newborns nearly who will suffer as a result of that.
		So we're having a great fight about how we achieve this.
		How do we do that?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Well it would be nice if the mentality that split our families and destroyed that structure of our society would admit it and show us all the connection between storm of families and an eventual policy that would allow you to take people off welfare within 18 months,
		but absent any acknowledgement that something went wrong and ripped our families apart and now, having created these dependent people who could never, like a pet animal, never go out and see for themselves.
		Something is gone.
		I have a problem, a little problem.
		And I'm in a dichotomy about it because if I had the pen, I'd sign the legislation tomorrow that in two years there is no more welfare.
		And yet I know and have come in contact and sat in a closed room with people who never function again in life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So is it a generational change, not a two-year change?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		No, no, it's 25-year change.
		But I don't think that's right.
		If there is a pot that you and I put our money in, you and I ought to agree mostly on where we ought to spend it.
		And too many people, if there is anything close to freedom in America, it has to be connected with what we do with our money.
		And too many people who put their money in this pot don't want it to go to where it's going.
		And eventually, those people have as much right to withdraw their money from where it's being used as those people who believe they have a right to receive it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Art Bel.
		Hi, Emmanuel.
		Hello.
		Yes, Arta.
		Previous caller accused you of being a bigot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, ma'am?
unidentified		I'm from Seattle.
		My name is Roxanne.
		Calling from Seattle.
		All right.
		I listened to you during the Million Man March, and you were very fair.
		And I also disagree with Charlie about the funds.
		All the funds in Seattle are given to the black schools first, the pools get built there first, and then the whites get them last.
		But I have a question, Emmanuel.
		What would you think?
		Would you like it if how would you like it if a million man march, a million man white men had a march?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I don't put a whole lot of stock in marching.
		I'm an individualist.
		If your liver goes bad, it gets fixed one cell at a time.
		And it's not right to ask your stomach cells to come over and help the liver.
		It doesn't work like that.
unidentified		Do you think it's a double standard?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And it is a double standard that has so angered whites.
		I'll tell you, when I was a psychologist, hostility was my specialty.
		And you know what happens to a hostility that you forbid a whole race of people from expressing?
		Do you know how angry whites are, and particularly white men?
		Liberals have got that right.
		But part of the reason is that they're never allowed to vent it.
		They're never allowed to say that they're angry about what has gone on in the black community.
		And they're angry that such a 12% of the people has tilted the country on one side to the point where we're taking in water in our bowels, so to speak.
		That's a right to be angry.
unidentified		Well, I'm not white.
		You know, what would you think if Indians, you know, had a million man march?
		You know, I mean, you know.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I don't think either one ought to have existed.
unidentified		Oh, I see.
unidentified		So you disagree with that totally.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Well, I disagree with the march.
		I don't think it was right.
		And I don't think, if you haven't heard the discussion tonight, you know.
unidentified		No, I tuned in about an hour ago.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm so sorry, Michael.
		One of the things that I say without saying it is it isn't words that changes people.
		It is where the speaker is coming from.
		The intent, the depth.
		What side of his heart is it coming from?
		Is it meant to help or is it meant to hurt?
		And Louis Farrakhan says so many of the right things, but from a heart of rage, from an anger towards...
unidentified		Good.
		None of you raised healthy children.
		I didn't know if anyone had called in or not and brought up that question.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		The first thing that Minister Farrakhan should have repented of was his involvement in the death of Malcolm X, who did nothing.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Who did nothing more than to discover, like I did, that there was something else true other than what he used to think.
unidentified		And the moment that he began to speak it, he was snuffed out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Haven't you convicted a man that has not legally been convicted?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		No, I haven't convicted him.
		I simply said that he boasted of his own involvement in Malcolm X' death.
		I asked, what was his crime?
		What was the crime?
		And why are you so attentive to my opinion about Malcolm X, I mean Lewis Felicon, and so less attentive to the sentence that was passed on this man?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The sentence that was passed on him?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		On Malcolm X. Yes.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		A sentence was passed on him, and he was gunned down, blown to bits in front of three little drivers who watched it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
		But I don't know for certain who perpetrated that.
		I guess you do.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you have personal knowledge.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		He's written it.
		He's said it.
		This isn't the kind of thing that you boast about.
		But amongst the nation of Islam, it was a proud deed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we're running terribly short on time, and before it does run out, I want to give you a chance to give out your number again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So to get your magazine, Destiny magazine, that follows up, I'm sure, on many of the things you've said here tonight.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People would call what number, say it twice at least.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		1-800-545-5842.
		Only after 8 o'clock in the morning.
		That's 1-800-545-5842.
		And a stomach for raw common sense is helpful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Alice from Seattle.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're on the wrong line, ma'am.
unidentified		Oh, could you give me the number?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1-800-618-8255.
		We'll go to that line.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, I'm calling from Los Angeles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
unidentified		And I admire what Emmanuel's saying greatly.
		And my comment would be, would you say, Emmanuel, that most people are scratching at the proverbial surface, the tip of the iceberg, so to speak?
		Yes.
		And they can't get, their understanding is clouded by what they receive, so that there's so much more to understand.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Goes beyond what you're saying.
unidentified		Right.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		What you talk about on the surface, ma'am, is a clever distraction to avoid the deeper and the inner.
		It's a distraction because it's painful in there.
		The discoveries are painful.
		The truth that you are not is painful.
		A reality that you didn't create is painful.
		The brick wall that will smash your head if you don't acknowledge this reality is painful.
		And we all want to avoid pain.
unidentified		So we cannot.
		In a sense, ignorance is bliss.
		Sort of a high.
		And the people at that level who stay in an ignorance, so to speak, are easily deceived.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Easily deceived.
		And they have people who champion that ignorance as if it was something great.
		And as long as we are a society that surrounds ourselves with a hypnotic kind of championing of ignorance, then you will always be able to control the masses.
		And let no one tell you, let no one make you doubt that it's accidental.
unidentified		Oh, I don't.
		And I think that hopefully that with your help and others that art can get beyond the veil.
		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, ma'am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the first time caller line, as time grows short, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
unidentified		Hi, Emmanuel.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		How are you doing today?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, sir.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Listen, what is your religious denomination?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I don't have one.
unidentified		Okay.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Because for me, God is something that you read less about, talk less about, and live.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		I'm interpreting you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Emmanuel, let him finish.
unidentified		I'm interpreting this as you coming from a spiritual and a more deep inner self.
		You need to involve yourself in self-referection.
		There's several levels that you seem to be talking on.
		And one is self-reflection and doing things on your own and taking on responsibility for your place in the world.
		And it seems that everyone needs to understand that we are all connected in some way in life.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		And one of the biggies, sir, one of the biggies is facing the pain.
unidentified		Yes, absolutely.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Life lays right in front of your path.
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Facing it.
unidentified		I'm currently working two jobs, and one is a real estate agent, and another I work a night job from 5 to midnight.
unidentified		And it's not something I enjoy.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		You got kids?
unidentified		No.
unidentified		But I have a fiancé, and we are struggling every single day and every single hour.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Talk about what you see in each other?
unidentified		Absolutely.
unidentified		We're struggling in terms of creating our own reality.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Are you honest with her?
unidentified		Pardon me?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Are you honest with her?
unidentified		Am I honest with her?
		Yes.
		In terms, in what terms?
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		Just your discussions.
unidentified		What you ask about her, what she sees about you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, look, we're going to have to end this on a high note.
		Emmanuel, we're out of time.
		Call her, thank you.
		All the callers, thank you.
		Emmanuel, it has been a pleasure, despite what disagreements we've had.
		It has been a pleasure having you on the program.
		I don't keep a lot of guests for five hours, so there you go.
emanuel mclittle ▲ ● ▼		I've enjoyed it immensely, and I look forward to the day that you and I sit at the same table and sip a cup of coffee together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Emmanuel, thank you for hanging in there, and you have a good night.
		You too.
		Take care, my friend.
		All right, that's it.
		Sorry, we are governed by the clock.
		So, if you would like a copy of this program, you can get it by calling 1-800-917-4278.
		Let me repeat that number.
		1-800-917-4278.
		The program with Emmanuel McWiddle.
		I'm Art Bell from the High Desert.

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