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Dec. 20, 1995 - Art Bell
02:54:41
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Emanuel McLittle - Destiny Magazine Publisher
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Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere In Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from December 20th, 1995.
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning, as the case may be, and welcome to another edition of Coast to Coast AM.
Live talk radio throughout the nighttime while others repeat, regurgitate, and recycle.
We're actually here live from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands in the west, all the way out east to the Caribbean and the U.S.
Virgin Islands south, well into South America.
I know that to be true.
North to the pole.
This indeed is coast-to-coast AM.
You know, working these hours, I confuse myself half the time about which day I'm talking about.
And I thought I had scheduled Emmanuel McLittle for Thursday.
Last night, I think I said he would be on tonight.
So, I called up Emmanuel and he said about same thing.
Anyway, he's here.
Emmanuel McLittle is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of something called Destiny Magazine.
Grew up on Detroit's west side, so a lot of the hometown folk are going to be listening in Detroit.
Attended Mumford High School, getting by with poor reading skills, non-existent study habits, and a lackluster work ethic like millions of young black males.
He was programmed angry.
During his senior year in high school, Emmanuel and his wife, now of 27 years, Sharon, became Parents, they married, both finished high school.
At a later time, a high school dropout, Emanuel eventually took a job as a security guard at Mercy College of Detroit.
Very pedestrian thus far.
While at Mercy, the school made tuition available to all full-time employees.
And here's where I think Emanuel takes off.
Recognizing the opportunity, he found himself working to Complete high school in the evenings while working during the day.
At 21 years of age, he began his freshman year at Mercy College and caught fire with a thirst for reading.
That'll do it.
His favorite areas of interest were psychology, history, political science.
In two years, he earned an associate degree.
The, quote, taste of achievement, end quote, hooked him.
In just 18 additional months, and I'll tell you it's like a drug, This high school dropout graduated with a 3.6 grade point average, a Bachelor of Arts degree in Sociology.
The anger had been replaced with a drive to do something about the dark conditions the very inner city he grew up in.
A couple of more years, he earned a Master's degree in Psychology from the University of Detroit.
By now, he was a different person altogether.
A candidate for U of D's doctoral program, He had additional schooling to support his growing family.
In the first job as a parole officer for the state of Michigan, a slow transformation, a morphing, I guess, the morphing of Emmanuel.
His political ideals began to take shape.
Nothing would be the same after that.
And now, I guess, Well, we're going to find out.
I wonder if you would label himself... Emmanuel Little, welcome to... McLittle, welcome to the program.
How are you?
Good evening, Art.
How are you?
I'm glad to be here.
You're up in Oregon or something, aren't you?
Yes, in the hills of Oregon, where I've lived for the last year and a half.
And it is a move that has attached itself to the rear end of this morphing that you're talking about.
Because it is another piece of my individuality that began way back in those years when I knew and began to progressively know that there was a reality out there different than what was in my head.
Well, it's a big change from inner city Detroit to the hills of Oregon.
Yes, it is.
Why?
Why did you make that move?
I don't know why.
I started as a young boy and what I didn't know at the time was a confusing, sometimes angry, frequently unnourishing environment like millions of young black boys at seven or eight years of age.
I found comfort watching Hoss and Little Joe ride off into the sunset.
And sit around a huge fireplace with a living room that looked like all outdoors and speak about principles that I didn't hear spoken about in my home.
And a love for that outdoors, that distance, that freedom, that sense of family touched me as a child and never left me.
What was your home like?
Roy Louch family, 14 brothers and sisters, confusion, typical problems between black male and black female in terms of my mother and father.
My mother was dominant in our household.
My father was less dominant and almost like one of the older brothers in a sense.
And I'm being this descriptive because later on I will be equally as descriptive in terms of talking about some of the dynamics that exist in black homes today and the connection and links between that kind of environment and what we see as a continuing, lagging problem.
With blacks being on the bottom rung of the ladder.
14 children, uh, Emmanuel.
All in one home at the same time.
That's impossible.
Well, I mean, it is certainly possible, but it's nearly impossible.
Uh, did your dad work?
Well, my dad was, uh, uh, flung steel at Ford Motor Company's Ruich plant in Dearborn, Michigan.
A good job.
Yeah, pretty good job.
He was, uh, Not around psychologically provided little support in terms of growing, wondering and developing young men, six of my brothers.
As I said earlier, I found frequent and comfortable escape watching those things like Bonanza on TV that took me to another place.
I think that was the genesis of my later years finding particular enjoyment not doing some of the things that some of my friends would do.
I enjoyed a ride 80 miles away into the country.
I enjoyed the hills and the quiet and the cow poop and the sense of serenity that I found.
It never left me.
When I was able to decide what I was going to do in terms of where I was going to live, I found a place called Selma, Oregon that provides a similar scenery and a similar feel to what I found very comfortable at six years old.
When you were watching Bonanza?
Yes.
Yeah, I guess it is like country, actually.
Yes.
But Bonanza was certainly not... It was not anywhere near the black culture.
It depicted a very Almost perfect, as you pointed out, a value-laden picture of a rather well-to-do, white, early Western family.
Yes, and at that particular age I didn't see color, nor did I see economic status.
What I saw was a dad and sons who talked about life, who had something to say to each other that was frequently not argumentative.
Who put their lives on the line for each other in terms of defending each other's ideals and principles.
There was a freedom there that I did not experience as a child.
I'm suggesting to you and your audience that as I grow and finally become educated about what it means for whole, happy development in a child, I can now suggest That all children have a sense of knowing about what is peaceful, and what is happy, and what is proper, and they don't know they have it.
Is your father alive now?
My father is dead 20 years.
Father is dead 20 years.
Did you feel, and do you now still feel, anger toward your father?
No, I didn't feel... I felt anger toward my father and everyone else, because anger was One of the personality characteristics that were considered the norm where I grew up.
If you weren't angry at 13 years old and you didn't know how to fight at 14 and you didn't treat your girlfriend in a rough fashion, you were kind of like a punk where I grew up.
Yes, my resentment frequently was directed towards my father who I knew had a kind of a lacking in the sense that he was 20 years older than my mother.
I never saw anything loving in terms of their exchange with each other.
I saw arguments and verbal violence.
balance more often than I saw anything else.
I had a deep anger towards my parents because there was a sort of knowing inside of me,
as there is in millions and millions of young blacks today, that there was some responsibility
on their part for the difficulties that I experienced as a young man thrust into a world
it was not very friendly. Okay, Manuel, back away from the phone just a little bit. Okay.
Okay.
I think it'll be better.
You're almost over-modulating a little bit.
Okay.
Now listen, you're on the air right now, in Detroit, and you're talking to, no doubt, my brothers and sisters.
You've got it.
In the inner city, the same place you were.
Yes.
That you're not anymore.
Yes.
What would you say to them?
There are many of them traveling down a very different road than for some surprising reason you traveled.
What happened to you?
What can they take from what you did?
Well, I want to mention that I talk to them by way of a 60-page glossy magazine every other month, but the route that I took was one that I believe is offered To all of them.
And when I say them, I mean they're our brothers and sisters sitting in Detroit that I haven't seen or spoken to in 20 years.
And this distance that exists between them and I is the result of my having moved in an entirely different and foreign direction as they.
And it began with reading and finding out that I wasn't so stupid and throwing off this sense of inferiority that comes with anger and hostility that young men develop.
When I sat in a classroom with rather well-to-do white students at Mercy College, I made the first discovery that I was not stupid, that I had some kind of understanding about life and other things that some of these students did not.
And that I needed to do nothing but get the mechanics, the reading, the study habits, the discipline to make it through the course material, to carry a decent-sized load.
And that happened to me in the very, very first year.
Well, what made that happen?
What was the genesis of it?
Was there some light bulb that came down and went on over your head all by itself?
Yes, there was.
My having got to Mercy College, Mercy College came as a result of a series of other things.
My wife and I were parents at 18 and 19 years old, and we live in the heart of Detroit's bowels, sort of like in a city.
If you know where the Detroit riots started in 1967, It was at a place called 12th and Claremont where we lived in that vicinity when we were first married because that is the place where you could get a $50 a month apartment.
Sometimes it had leaky roofs and rather cheap rent.
I had what I think to be somewhat of a revelation standing on my porch watching the whores and the drug addicts walk down the street past my home.
I stood on my porch one day and watched my sons, who were one and two or three years old, playing in what should have been grass but mud.
I just had a sense at that very moment that I had to get out of here, that I had to take my children out of here.
I had only one difficulty.
I had a value system that was very similar to the mentality that I was surrounded by.
And I had no money, and I had nothing of value except a 1965 Bonneville that had more expensive speakers and skirts.
I don't know that you remember what skirts are, but I had skirts on my Bonneville.
Of course I do.
I remember them on cars and women.
Hold on just one moment, Emanuel.
We'll be right back to you.
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Looking for the truth?
You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM.
I get asked at so many places, do you really believe that we're being visited?
It's amazing how many people wonder about that.
The visitations have been happening since the beginning of time, haven't they?
It is a very bizarre thing that is taking place.
Look, we're having alien creatures visit this planet.
Our government knows about it.
They're telling us nothing about it.
That is a very serious situation.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's broadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell was recorded on December 20th, 1995.
Welcome back.
nineteen ninety five welcome back anyway there you are in uh... in detroit
angry but somehow
what i'm told what i need to find out is if you know what happened to you
that could happen to the people listening to you in detroit the other
big cities, LA.
and elsewhere.
What is that thing?
Well, I think that what it is, was to realize that there was no real bars that locked me into 12th and Claremount in Detroit.
There was nothing really there that held me back.
Yeah, I remember, Emmanuel, when I was young and lived in the Northeast, and we would ride through, on the train, areas, really rough areas of the Bronx and so forth, and I would look at the tenements there, and I would say, to myself, why would anybody stay there?
Why wouldn't they run away?
Why wouldn't they grab their family?
In every penny they could, you know, get their hands on and head for the hills.
Well, they don't because they're told that there's nowhere else to be.
They don't because we are constantly told as blacks that there is a world out there that does not welcome us.
We are given all kinds of illusions that actually create a psychological prison around Those areas that we designate ourselves to live in.
You see?
Well, how much truth is there in that?
There's a germ, certainly, of truth in it.
Now, there was racism, there was a lot of racism in early America.
We went through a metamorphosis, good word, again, and things seem to get better for a while.
Right now, frankly, I think they're getting worse again.
Yes, they are.
Why?
I think they're getting worse because We worked too hard to heal the wound and the effort that we took to heal the wound actually tore it open again.
There is a little concept that says that there is a point in which one individual or a group of people, a race of people, has to overlook Those injuries and harms that took place to them collectively at some time in the past, and for blacks, that did not happen.
There is a sense in America that blacks have to get back, that we have to have some kind of reparations, that we have to be arrogant and angry and hostile towards the descendants of white people who mistreated us.
And so, Instead of taking the route that says in reality that there is a history in the human race where everybody has been somebody else's slave and that at some point the getting back has to stop and there has to be a leveling out of those feelings that demand revenge.
You see?
And so now we are in a place and a political position Well, we can demand reparations.
We can demand a right to be racist ourselves.
We can demand that you accept our harshness and our anger and our hostility.
And in that state of mind, is it possible to know what the right amount of payback is?
We will talk about reparations and payback and that kind of thing when we come back in just a moment.
Emmanuel McLittle is my guest.
There'll be more.
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
I'm going to be playing the song called, There's No Place Like Home.
It's a song that I wrote in the early days of my life.
I wrote it when I was 13 years old.
It's a song that I wrote in the early days of my life.
to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's broadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell was recorded on December 20th, 1995.
My guest is Emmanuel McLittle.
He is the editor-in-chief of Destiny Magazine.
Aptly named, I guess.
Came from the inner city area of Detroit.
And we're not going to open the phones yet, but when we do, You know what I think I'm gonna do?
I'm gonna restrict my East of the Rockies line to the inner city area of Detroit.
That might be very interesting.
So if that's where you are, when we open the lines, everybody else hold on.
And on our East of the Rockies line, I wanna hear from nobody but inner city Detroit people.
Hello there.
We're talking to you.
The number is 1-800-825-5033.
That's 1-800-825-5033.
A spark.
Something in a manual that, uh, lifted him up, um, by bootstraps?
That's something, uh, well-worn phrase, I suppose, and made him decide, I'm outta here.
I'm into a different life.
I'm gonna educate myself.
Up, up and out, as it were.
We're going to explore that and some other very interesting race-related issues with Emmanuel.
There's a lot of interesting stuff coming up.
In the most immediate, reparations.
We'll talk about that and his attitude about them, compared to Minister Pericons, for example.
Now, we take you back to the past, on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Back now to Emanuel McLittle, who publishes, editor-in-chief, in fact, of Destiny Magazine.
Yes.
What is the message The message of destiny is that it actually provided a little relief for me in the beginning of my journey to what I believed to be a surreal reality that I discovered later on.
It had been talking to me inside my head since the day I decided that the Bonneville had to go and that there was no other money.
I mean, is this your way of trying to tell other people how to do what you did?
How to do what I did, and that choices, the choices that we make as individuals are not a whole lot different than the choices that we make as a whole group, a whole race of people.
When you choose wrong, the results will be wrong, and that we have for too long chosen out of a sense of anger about slavery and have
therefore gone into a direction that has created an environment in our neighborhoods and our
household that is all wrong.
This wrong is reflected in nearly everything that we read, nearly everything that we listen
to, nearly everything that we are attracted to in terms of music, in terms of the culture
that surrounds the minds of our children.
There's a lot of talk about reparations, Emanuel.
Should there be reparations for black people?
No.
No?
No, there shouldn't be reparations for black people because if there should be reparations
for black people, then what money is there going to be left to pay for the slavery that
took place in the continent where we came from?
Who pays reparations and who pays the reparations of all of the other races that have been slaves
in the world before us?
And if you pay reparations, how do you factor in the fact that black Americans live at a
much higher level than other blacks anywhere else in the world?
That's an absolute truth.
I heard a black man and I'm sorry I don't remember where the other day said, you know, sometimes I hear, um, uh, blacks, uh, talking about, uh, Africa as though they would wish to go back.
He said, let me tell you something.
I went over to Africa here recently and he said, I looked at the people and how they lived, the way they lived, the sounds that were around me.
He said, I couldn't get my butt out of there fast enough.
There's no more way I'd want to live in Africa than the man on the moon.
Nor the world of those people who are constantly hurling attacks at America as being a racist, the most racist place on the planet.
You don't see those people taking advantage of Pan Am's discounts that will take you overseas every weekend.
And so one of the things that Destiny Magazine attempts to do is to provide a language and a basis for understanding that if you bite the hand that gives you the best, the biggest, the tastiest meal you've ever had, then you are responsible for your own negative lot.
And this is what's happened to blacks in this country on a political, social, and a personal level.
We have bitten the hand of the nation That allows us to have blacks heading some of the largest cities in this nation, and that we are amongst some of the wealthiest, and there would hardly be any basketball were it not for blacks, and we are police chiefs and school board presidents and teachers and physicists and scientists.
In numbers, in America, what is unmatched anywhere else.
I'll bet there's some blacks out there who would say to you, now here he is, I'm listening to this guy, he's a black guy who ran away to be a white man.
You know, wanted to be, wanted to live on the Ponderosa.
Yes, but not wanted to.
Do live on a small Ponderosa.
I have experience.
Yeah, but you don't understand.
They'd be coming at you from that place of anger.
They'd be saying, Well, he's a black man maybe only in skin color only.
He's a white man now.
But if I would allow that kind of criticism to put a boulder in the road of my dreams, I would be back there with him, slapping backs and playing gin rummy.
But I'm not, you see.
And I say it out of no anger and malice whatsoever.
You're not in favor of mixed marriage, are you?
No, I'm not.
So, obviously then, you're a connoisseur of your own culture.
Yes, I am.
And yet, many would argue that you have abandoned your culture with the destiny you have created for yourself.
Isn't there a bit of a problem between those two sometimes for you?
No.
I'm married to a very, very attractive black woman.
And culture has no real great value for me.
I have created my own culture and why I am still a black man.
I allow nothing to hem me in in terms of how I shall act, what I shall wear, who I should be, where I should go.
I'm a free individual and I'm suggesting in 60 pages every other month how not only can my brethren, my personal family, My racial brethren, my colleagues, the people that I left back in Detroit, how this can be shared and experienced.
And that as long as we think of ourselves as a group and not as individuals who happen to be a different color, then we will continue to live in a prison And continue to blame white folks for that prison.
Alright, but what's wrong with a mixed marriage?
I don't think anything is wrong with a mixed marriage for blacks in a perfect world.
But for blacks, in my view, and I understand this from sort of like my psychology background, where I worked with my people for many, many years, 12 years.
And you'd have to be blind and a fool to not see that rather than racism, there are some deep pathological problems inside the black community that emanate not in corporate America, but within the confines of the homes where young black men and women grow up.
And there is such emotional destruction That is really the genesis for some of the crime, really the genesis for some of the violence that we see in 20% of the young men who are in prison now, and there is a need for some extensive repair.
And the repair must include a father and a mother.
Let me finish this.
It would be much more healthy for young black children to see their mother and their father work through their own destinies and work through a life that is transcendent of hostility and hate and anger and failure.
And I believe that in order to do so, that has to include both members I think I disagree with you.
looks to be a family of black men and a black woman this is not
and top right this is not and five uh... interracial marriage it is pro
uh... the kind of uh... building blocks that's needed to create
and organism or a of health
uh...
i i i think i disagree with you i think that ultimately in our society
the only hope is that the color differences but uh...
eventually disappear
Thank you.
And actually, that is occurring, and you probably consider that to be pathological.
Yes.
And I also consider it quite arrogant for human beings who did not create the color differences, which I believe to be rather beautiful.
From a panoramic point of view.
Actually, I do too.
And we would be quite arrogant to attempt to get rid of them.
Yeah, but wouldn't we also be arrogant to prevent that change?
In other words, as it occurs naturally, whether it's black and brown or Asian or white or whatever, intermarrying... I don't believe it's occurring naturally.
I believe it's forced on us.
It's being pushed on us.
It is just now happening in the last 40 years that we have crossed each other's lines.
Don't get the impression that I am advocating that we don't deal with each other in different races.
I think it's quite possible for you and I to work in the same marketplace, that we do business together, that we be great friends, and that we sit and break bread together.
But it is my view that I should not mix with your wife, and that you should not mix with my sister.
That if you carry that mixing to its ultimate conclusion, then the races do disappear.
And it would be an odd thing for it to happen for human beings, as well as for it to happen to trees, or animals.
This great variety that exists in everything else on earth.
It's about to exist in the human race as well and I am suspicious and have been suspicious for 20 years about this ongoing effort to get rid of it.
There's something wrong with it.
But what is to say that a black man and a white woman or the other way around or any other combination of colors and ethnicities can't mix and have as nurturing and loving a family I'm not saying that that is not possible, but in the world that we live in... If you could, you would prevent it, though.
I think that there is something natural that prevents it.
I think it's very difficult to exist in a mixed marriage.
I think that the basis of all real love is directed towards yourself.
Emmanuel, that's a societal difference.
It's not a...
It's not a natural one.
You used the word natural a while ago.
I am naturally different in terms of my skin tone than you are.
So what?
What do you mean, so what?
I think it's a wonderful thing to have that difference.
I don't disagree with you.
It is a wonderful thing.
But again, I say, so what?
i don't know i don't disagree with you it is one of the day but again i say
so what if a man and a woman fall in love regardless of anything
and they provide a nurturing home uh...
i'd just i don't see where the problem with that is And you need to explain it to me.
I think that on an individual level, that people are able to come together and have that coming together not be reflected in the fact that they are different colors.
There is nothing wrong with it.
But you name me a couple.
In the unit there is nothing wrong with it.
You name me a couple who makes the decision to marry each other, and they are of different races, and I say that if it's possible to strip away the psychological layers, that you will find the fact of that difference having too much of a factor in the decision to marry.
It's not possible.
Well, I... You cannot ignore... A black man cannot ignore his wife's complexion if she's white.
Okay.
Let's leave that for a second and talk about... I did... It was toward the end of the O.J.
Simpson trial, you know, when they had the famous race is the reason speech at the end by Cochran.
And I talked to, for a couple of hours, black men Down in Los Angeles.
Then I talked to black women in Los Angeles, and I made a very important discovery.
I discovered there was an extreme anger on the part of black women toward any black man who, after having made it financially, you know, moving on up as it were, took on a white woman or a woman of another color, there's an Yes, because to black women it represents abandonment.
If that man, and I disagree with you, they see it with poor black men who mix.
They hate it.
They hate it with a passion.
Because that is one more man that wasn't at home providing a mattel for his son.
That is one more man that one of them could not marry.
And they see something naturally wrong with their kind going to a different kind.
It is the ultimate to a black female in rejection.
It is the ultimate rejection.
And you must talk to a black female who speaks with you from a point of honesty, who will tell you that one of the reasons that O.J.
Simpson is free today is because uh... there was a resentment
towards his wife that nobody ever spoke of. It was denied. Now you think
that was a big part of the decision?
It was a huge factor.
In other words, she should have never been with him. And nobody knows how O.J.
Simpson and his wife got together.
But the story is, she chased him.
She demanded to have him.
She took him away from his beautiful black wife and family.
You see?
And this is the kind of thing that you cannot get an individual to speak about in an honest sense.
Well, I would say, okay, but that happens in the white community.
I mean, a lot of wives out there who have had their husbands taken away by members of the same sex.
Not a lot.
The same, excuse me, race.
Yes.
Oh, sure there are.
Come on, the divorce rate in white America is terrible.
It's probably worse in black America, but it's bad in white America too.
Yes.
People leave people for other people all the time.
Yes.
But, in the case of leaving, as you point out, a black woman for a white woman, as he made it, you know, financially, boy oh boy, I took calls and I'm telling you there was some serious anger.
Yes.
Yes.
It was that bread, honey, and sweet milk that he should have brought home to his community.
It was the departure of the time that men and women should transcend the first blush of marriage, which is usually quite sexual.
That transcends itself, seven or eight or ten years, depending on the couple.
And you get down to where the rubber meets the road in terms of Trying to work out the things that divide men and women.
I'll bite.
I agree with that.
But why would a black-white relationship not mature after this initial sexual rush as any other relationship in the same race would or hopefully would?
I can only tell you what my experience is having counseled many such couples.
They're in denial about the real reasons that they marry.
When you counsel them, do you counsel them that they should not be together because they are of different race?
Well, in the 12 years that I did practice, I didn't get into a habit of saying, you should do or you should not do.
I got a good therapist, and I sense then, don't believe in the powers of psychology anymore, but a good therapist would simply show them The reality is that they are trying to avoid in their own minds and they will eventually tell you themselves that they shouldn't have done it.
I've heard it a thousand times that the reason that we all get married in the same race is too often trivial and fickle.
And do not have enough of the deeper things that life is made out of.
Emmanuel, Emmanuel, I've got to interrupt.
We're at the top of the hour.
Stand by.
We'll be right back to you.
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's broadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell was recorded on December 20th, 1995.
The broadcast was recorded on December 20th, 1995.
the the
Tonight's program originally aired December 20th, 1995.
Well, I'll tell you what, it's going to be an interesting one this morning.
My guest is Emmanuel McLittle.
He is the founder, publisher, editor-in-chief of Destiny Magazine.
He grew up in Detroit's inner city.
Young, angry, black kid.
Suddenly, somehow, the light bulb went on.
Went and got an education.
Went out west.
And now publishes a magazine with some very interesting points of view.
And we'll be right back to it.
And looking for the truth.
You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM.
Let's talk a little bit about the shadow government.
Do you believe it's there?
Yeah, we've heard that term, you know, for so many years and I thought it was this group in the Netherlands that sit behind smoked windows and make decisions like, you know, giant players of chess.
But it isn't.
We don't have the government anymore.
What we have is a loose coalition of bureaucracies.
But we have no representation in that government.
So when I look at the Constitution, I see it as a really inspired and eternal document that has been sidestepped in almost every legal way possible.
So the process itself has been intentionally manipulated to facilitate a certain style of government.
And it's taken a while to set up.
But I think it's set up now, and it's working just the way they like it.
We need a systemic change.
In order to let the Republic be representative of the people again.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's broadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell was recorded on December 20th, 1995.
Music Alright, back now to Emmanuel McLittle.
Emanuel, and oh, I want to specify, I'm going to restrict my East of the Rockies line to Emanuel's birthplace, Inner City, Detroit.
And we're about to take calls here.
So Inner City, Detroit only.
The number is 1-800-825-5033.
one eight hundred eight two five five zero three three this'll be very interesting
uh... all the other lines as usual but inner city detroit only on the east of the rockies line
at one eight Now, Emmanuel McWhittle, he doesn't want a country where there are mixed marriages.
He's against them.
Blacks should not marry whites, whites not blacks, and so forth.
He says he doesn't want reparations.
For blacks.
Now, I'm beginning to hear a few similarities with what he's saying and what Louis Farrakhan says.
Louis Farrakhan is many things, but he is an intellectual.
He is interesting to listen to, and I'd love to interview him.
So in some ways, it's not like I'm interviewing Farrakhan here, but I do want to ask.
Farrakhan says, if black people were given reparations, Emmanuel, in the form of money, That money would soon and quickly disappear non-productively.
What Farrakhan wants is, in a way, what I'm going to ask you whether you want, and that is he wants land.
Land.
He wants a place where black people in America can be by themselves.
How do you react to that?
I don't.
I see myself at the total opposite end of the universe of Farrakhan's thinking.
I think we have all that we need in this country, and it is called not land, not money, but opportunity.
I think that living in the most prosperous place on the planet, having an opportunity to do whatever, live wherever, be whatever we want to be, is the great prize that all of the other groups in the world want, and they're streaming across A part of our border to try to experience it.
We already have it.
And I believe that American blacks are the recipients of a great gift.
And let me shock you a little bit more in my thinking that those slave ships that landed on the shores of parts of the African continent, in my view, while it was a harsh experience, It was a harsh ride.
It was a harsh run to 200 years of slavery.
But had it not occurred, the blacks that you see having been lifted up by a tremendous tide would never have taken place.
And so if you are bothered at all about some of the things that I have said in the past, I'm going to be bothered by this also, that I'm grateful to the powers that be that saw fit to put my ancestors on one of those boats, because I am an individual here.
I am all that I am inside, and that goes so far beyond what color my skin is.
That I'm a man that has virtually no consciousness.
That I'm even black.
Well, I'm sure there are a lot of blacks that will call you up and say they can hear that clearly.
Well, I haven't heard it yet from blacks.
What I'm hearing it is from Ardell.
Yep.
In other words, I am... Isn't it strange, Ardell, that you, an intelligent man, would call questions at me about why Emmanuel McLittle lives on a ranch in a remote small town and he's black but that is supposed to be an automatic right for a man like yourself to live probably in a remote area in a desert town.
I do.
And away from all of those white people in California.
I do.
Well, then how come I can't have it?
You've misinterpreted what I've said.
I don't think so.
Yes, you have.
I'm not saying that there's a thing wrong with what you've done.
In fact, as I told you earlier, I used to drive through the Bronx and my attitude would be when I'd see those tenements, you know, that run alongside the railroad, you go through those areas.
So why the hell don't those people get out of there?
But if you were speaking as you have to white guests, Who live in remote areas, this question would never have formed in your mind.
No, that's not what I'm questioning about what you're saying, Emmanuel.
What I'm questioning about... Let me understand it.
Okay, what I have questioned is your attitude about mixed marriages.
I don't care for them.
Yeah, I know.
Why are you offended by that?
I don't care whether you live in Timbuktu or in Detroit.
That makes no difference to me.
So, you missed that there.
I'm glad that you live where you live, and I'm glad you're happy living there.
I'm not as glad as me.
No, but I do question your attitude about mixed marriages, and that's where we have our difference.
Now, you say you have a lot of differences with Farrakhan.
I don't see that you have that many differences.
Well, because you seem to look at surface.
Okay, Pericon.
You seem to look at surface and you hear some of the things coming from me that you hear
similar things coming from Lewis Pericon.
Yes.
And you don't see anything except we're the same color and we sound similar.
You don't seem to hear that it's two diametrically opposed hearts, minds, and souls, which you
You don't seem to attribute.
Okay, does Louis Farrakhan also believe that the... I have no idea what's inside of his mind.
Well, I'm sure you've heard him speak.
Yes.
Do you think he also believes that the Races should not mix in marriage.
Well, he may also be capable of telling you when it's noon on a particular day.
And because he's capable of saying something intelligent, doesn't make him a good man.
That's right.
There are many, many intelligent people who see quite clearly that it is healthy for black children to have parents who look like them.
There's something wrong when men And women of the same race take years to sort through some of the physical things that impede men from loving women's souls.
It is compounded when the races are also different, because I tell you quite honestly, from having sat in the room with hundreds of couples, mixed couples generally are extremely more sexual, and there is a lot of psychological No, I agree with you.
embodied in the detention in the decision to interracially married
and sex is already a problem between men and women because as fast as he can
amanda have to learn for himself
for his wife and for his children
to learn to love his wife's soul and our body and any honest woman will tell you that. I
agree with you.
I'm just saying and i'll repeat what i said last hour and then we'll get to
phones because a lot of people But we both realize that most marriages begin with a mainly sexual or passionate attraction.
Then after months or years pass, one of two things happens.
Either they find their differences are irreconcilable, and the original sexual attraction is gone, or they fall in a deeper, more mature love And understanding of each other.
You know what?
Let me finish, Emmanuel.
And I think that is true.
The sex remains always to some degree, but they either become soulmates, as it were, and that takes over and continues the bond, or they get to the point where they are very different.
And to me, that could happen either in a mixed marriage, or in the same race marriage.
What you call irreconcilable differences is usually men who are not ready to realize
that the reasons that he decided to marry this particular woman was frequently too many
of the wrong reasons and that she was looking for love in the wrong place and discovered
earlier than him that this wasn't it.
And love is absent.
So the irreconcilable difference is the shallow way of describing what really takes place in the conflict between men and women.
She wants genuine love.
Yeah, sure, but look, all I'm trying to get through all of this fog is that these things that go right or go wrong Can happen in a mixed marriage or a same-race marriage?
Yes.
Quicker in mixed marriages.
Quicker in mixed marriages.
Check the statistics.
They don't last long.
Well, that's an interesting point.
And we'll continue with it.
Let me jump to the telephones.
On my Detroit line, you're on the air with the Emmanuel McLittle, hello.
Hello, how are you Mr. McLittle?
Hello sir, how are you?
Pretty good, pretty good.
Where do you live?
Huh?
Where do you live?
I live in Detroit.
I live, uh, on Carter near Dexter.
I know where you are.
Yep, I got, but I grew up and was born and raised on Sewer and Bangor and Hancock, all throughout Detroit.
Yes.
Actually, I grew up quite like yourself.
Yeah.
A family of ten.
Uh, father was self-employed.
We grew up actually in the nation of Islam.
Yes.
We grew up with this influence And as I grew and I went to college in North Carolina, I realized that this nation of Islam was not representative of Islam.
I started taking the course that Malcolm took.
I understood Malcolm as being similar to me.
He grew up in the streets, he was a hustler, he was a gangster, the whole ghetto subculture, what you see today.
Then he transcended to a nationalistic view.
Quite like yourself, even though you're very educated, You still aspire to these nationalistic views.
And as I researched and studied more and found out what Islam had to offer, I started to look at situations surrounding race.
And in the Quran it says, God created man in the different nations and colors and tribes so that they may come to know one another, not so that they may despise one another.
This God who loves beautiful color.
Okay, but hear me what I'm saying.
Okay, America, in its attempt With man governing man.
And it's attempt identifies people based on color identification.
Yes.
So they have taught us well on how to take on these biases and understand, understand me well.
I don't subscribe to any tenets of racism.
I know Muslim men and women, black, white, uh, Somalian, Korean who are Muslim and they live in harmony.
They raise their children in harmony simply because they follow a specific type of belief system.
Now this is what divides mankind, their beliefs.
So you still, even though you're educated and well educated and what have you, you still subscribe to this belief system that America teaches all of us, which is secularism or misunderstanding.
And you look at the life choices that you made.
I've heard this program.
You took a program off of television as a youngster and it inspired you to sort of run away from your environment.
Well, I understand that no matter where you live, it doesn't matter where you are, it's how you live.
Let me beg to differ with you.
I believe that human beings are quite unlike animals.
A notion that we have been... Spiritual as well as physical.
Let me finish.
We are quite unlike animals and therefore we have what I believe to be a deeper intuitive soul side to us.
Spirituality?
That has no territory for an example.
Oh yes it does!
I'm expressing something in where I live and it's interesting that where I live has become a flashpoint here.
I'm expressing something in where I live that is quite individualistic.
Have you ever been out of the country, somewhere like Morocco or India?
No.
Even Mecca or Medina?
No.
You've never been out of the country?
Not in those countries, no.
Okay, okay.
So, my point is this.
No matter where you live, or no matter where you run, you still have ideologies that influence us.
You've been influenced by the Western mentality and the Western ideology to make you hold these views.
And I tell you that there is a greater and a stronger influence in me that comes from what I believe to be my individual design.
Okay, but even though you're individual, you cannot function properly as an individual because human beings are community oriented.
That's right.
We need each other.
If a flood were to inflict you, You would eventually have to have another human being, whether they're white, black, brown, purple, it doesn't matter.
So what I'm saying is, if you believe in one creator, who created us all, you have to believe that human beings are also one.
Even though the differences there, you say that you enjoy these differences and they're needed, but they're also one.
They all have a heart, they all have a soul, they all need bread, water, they all use the bathroom.
This is what joins human beings, the universality that I found in Islam.
You look at the Hajj in Mecca each year, you'll find every human being represented there with the same aspirations, the worship of one God, and they're all brothers.
This is why Islam breaks down this barrier.
I know Muslims who are married to Caucasian Muslim women.
I know Muslims who are all across the spectrum.
No matter where you go in the world, you'll find Islam there.
Let me jump in just one second.
Doesn't spirituality, as both of you have discussed it, If it is pure, why does it not simply transcend any skin color differences?
Because of what God instructs us.
He says when He created man, He said He created man in the best of mold.
And that when He created man, that the devil was present.
And the devil said that I see in this human being there's very little self-control.
So the devil inspires us to create differences among ourselves.
I'm from better lineage than you.
I am better than you because of my race.
And this is what, we, human beings don't have the ability to govern themselves.
We don't.
This is why God sent prophets to teach them our universal message because ultimately the final goal is to die and meet God.
A wise man once said... I don't know anything about all of that.
A wise man once said...
It is quite natural for me to identify, love, and want to procreate my own self.
But you're not operating on a natural ability.
You're operating on what you've learned.
Learned behavior.
If you want to go back to something natural, seek what prophets had.
Seek what Moses taught.
And you ain't going to be able to find it unless you look at the Quran and you'll find human beings have not changed Well, we definitely disagree on where we ought to look for truth, but you are from my own country, and I'm happy to talk to you, and I think that I'd like to get to some of my enemies out there looking for it in Detroit.
Who are your enemies?
No, no, you're wrong.
I'm not.
I'm not.
We disagree.
We're not enemies.
That's right.
I don't see you as one.
You did contradict yourself, Mr. McLittle.
You said human beings, because you yourself said that you don't look to yourself as a race, and you use your intellect and the ability that you have as an individual.
But at the same time, you say that in mixed marriages, it won't work.
How can we say that, how can we make a blanket statement like that, if two individuals really care about each other, and they're not, they love each other, because you have to look at behavior also.
Alright, listen.
This is why I agree with you about going back to family, marriage, and solving some of the problems that we face in society.
Alright, listen you two, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it.
We're out of time.
Caller in Detroit, thank you very much.
So in essence, he was complaining to you about About what I was complaining to you about.
I'm not disagreeing with you entirely, but on this one issue I am, and I think it's going to be interesting, Emanuel.
So hold on.
We'll be back with more.
Stay right where you are.
My guest is Emanuel McLittle.
He is the editor-in-chief of Destiny Magazine from his home in Oregon.
And there's more on the way.
I'm Art Bell. This is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's broadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell was recorded on December 20th, 1995.
This is a recording of the broadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, on Premier Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 20th, 1995.
It's going to be an interesting ride this morning.
Emmanuel McLittle is my guest founder, publisher, editor-in-chief of Destiny Magazine, and that kind of says it.
He came from center Detroit, lives in Oregon now, and has many views that are very controversial, and so it's going to be very interesting.
I'm holding open my east of the Rockies line, For people in inner-city Detroit, it should provide, I think, an interesting contrast.
I'm not looking for enemies at all, despite what Emmanuel may think of his.
I'm simply looking for people who would comment from that area which he came.
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I get asked at so many places, do you really believe that we're being visited?
It's amazing how many people wonder about that.
The visitations have been happening since the beginning of time, haven't they?
It is a very bizarre thing that is taking place.
Look, we're having alien creatures visit this planet.
Our government knows about it.
They're telling us nothing about it.
That is a very serious situation.
Now, we take you back to the past on Arkbell Somewhere in Time.
Back now to Emmanuel McLittle.
It was a pleasure.
Emanuel, I've got two faxes here I want to read you.
One is sympathetic to you and one is not.
Which one do you want first?
I get a thrill out of agreement and disagreement, so it doesn't matter to me.
Well, in that case, you're going to be thrilled to death.
Here they come.
Alright, dear, I thank you for your guest tonight.
His rational thinking and intelligent choices give me, as a white person, hope that all races may, in the future, see that we are not different in what we as human beings need in the form of acceptance, love, and belongingness.
At some point, no matter if you're black, white, or red, you need to give up being a professional victim, which your guest has definitely accomplished.
I'd be fortunate to rub shoulders with such a person.
I'd also like to thank your guest for helping me to not feel cheated for being culturalist in America, and say thanks again, Art.
Your diversity never ceases to amaze me.
That is from Hawaii.
From Gary, The following comment.
Your guest is so far off that it is pathetic.
Emanuel has made the assumption that race is synonymous with culture.
This view is horribly defective.
I am a Bavarian-American, my girlfriend African-American.
We march through life in step.
In fact, she's listening to the show tonight, laughing at your guest.
I would ask your guest to demonstrate that Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas is of the same culture as Snoopy Dogg, snoopy dog dog
or show me how thomas soul and walter williams aren't anyway related to people such as rodney king
or on the flip side show me
how i am of the same culture as charles manson or ted bundy or hillbillies in apalachia
what's destroying minorities in general in america is their culture
their race and then he dares me to read it on the air one comment
No?
I never insinuated that color was a problem.
He's confusing something that he might have heard me say earlier, but it isn't worthy of comment.
And Bavarian married to African, I don't know what that means.
And if it didn't make very much difference, the fact that there are different kinds of people, I'd like to ask that individual that wrote that fax.
Well, it would even enter his mind to explain that they were different.
Okay.
Let's go to our West of the Rockies line.
You're on the air with Emanuel McLittle.
Hello.
Hello.
How are you doing?
Hi.
Where are you?
I'm in Los Angeles.
Yes, sir.
And I've lived about half my life in Los Angeles, half in Detroit.
I'm from Detroit.
And I'm 54 years old.
And by the way, how old is Emanuel?
47.
47.
Oh, okay.
I'm 47.
47.
Oh, okay, good.
I understand.
Anyway, I, you know, Detroit being 80% black and having lived in Detroit, well, you know,
I don't know how much your estimate is of the black population there.
But it was almost, you know, a one thought account.
In my estimation, it became almost backwards after the 60s.
Self-destructed?
Yes.
Had you any idea that you were going to somehow break out of the mold or get away from Detroit in a way?
Well, I didn't come to Oregon right away.
I gradually moved and I wasn't leaving blacks.
it's it's it was almost impossible to do it there but i can understand where you come from
uh... by going to work well i didn't come to work and right away i have
gradually moved uh... and uh...
uh... i uh... i wasn't leaving blacks i was leaving pathology that i observed from my front porch the crime the
hell of it the feeling the uh...
uh... the kind of thing that no individual regardless of color
wants to live around and let me tell you but one of the most threatening thing
it seems to me one of the most threatening thing
especially to white liberals
is a black who's free thinking
that he thinks for himself. If you think for one second that Clarence Thomas who
while I love him he's a good friend of mine
I would not have intermarried. That's his own personal business. I love him no less
because he did. But if you think for one second that his free thinking
didn't scare the hell out of me Out of American liberals who have for years guided blacks in their thinking, guided them towards the failure and the hostility that we champion in nearly every program that you see on TV for blacks, and yet they don't champion it for their own kids.
So I say to you that I am used to, for 12 or 15 years now, Well, this is what happened to me.
me and say, how dare you separate from your people, how dare you think for yourself and
be as you want to be and find appreciation in a white program like Bonanza as though
it were not possible for there to be values there.
Well this is what happened to me and I've been calling shows for years talking about
the fact that you don't sound much like the contrast that I was looking for.
Contrast?
No, Emmanuel, stop it.
I'm not looking for anything in particular.
I thought I heard you say you were looking for contrast.
Here's a contrast for you.
I used to be black.
You're making too many assumptions, Emmanuel, about people.
You said that word, contrast.
That's not an assumption.
You said it.
I don't recall saying contrast.
I think I said that I was looking for people in the area that you came from.
I think that's what I said.
I want to introduce you to millions and millions of black Americans who have transcended that thinking, who read my magazine, who call and write my office on a daily basis.
Alright, let's try this.
Are you concerned about hearing from people from Detroit?
And so why?
I'm concerned about your seeking for it.
Why?
I'm concerned... Why?
Why?
Why?
If Destiny... Emmanuel, hold it.
Emmanuel, hold it a second.
Hold it a second.
If Destiny Magazine is to reach out and to teach people what you say you have learned, then It is exactly those people that you would want to be reaching, isn't it?
But we haven't talked about Destiny Magazine.
We've talked about... Well, yes we have.
We strangely have talked about interracial marriages.
Well, we have, but we... Nearly half of the program.
But Destiny... My program is not half over.
It's five hours for your information.
Yeah.
Okay, so now, Destiny Magazine, I take it, and I did ask you this earlier, Is it not a way, don't you recall my asking, is destiny not your way of reaching out to talk to the people?
Um, that are in the situation you were in, and in effect tell them how you did it.
No, it's basically an alternative to what exists in the black press.
It is, um, it points the direction to a reality that is not prevalent, least spoken about, talked about, sung about in our community.
It is a different way of looking at the issues.
In Emanuel's way.
That's all it is.
Emanuel's way.
Yes, Emmanuel's way, Clarence Thomas' way, Thomas Sowell's way, Walter Williams' way, and many, many millions of black Americans who we can't name.
All right, when you said free thinker a while ago... Yes, free thinker.
Free thinker.
Unashamed of it.
Does free thinker mean or translate to conservative politically?
On some things.
Free is free.
It's a very simple word.
I don't think according to somebody else's approval.
I do not mind challenges at all to my thinking.
I am extremely secure in it.
It's just that it sounded like an acronym, in your case, for conservative.
And the people that you named... You reached that conclusion in your own head.
Only based on the people that you named.
What did I say was conservative?
Well, you named... Thomas Sowell is an economist.
A brilliant economist.
Walter Williams is a brilliant professor at George Mason University.
Clarence Thomas is a Supreme Court Justice.
Uh, quite adept at the law and the Constitution.
And quite conservative politically, arguably.
Oh, I know what you call him.
I see him as brilliant.
Okay.
Well, there can be free thinkers.
I'm a conservative, politically.
But there can be free thinkers on both sides, I believe, in both ideologies and extremes in both ideologies.
You consider yourself conservative?
You got problems with blacks who don't live in the ghetto!
I do?
No, no.
When did I say that?
You appear to.
When?
Alright, alright.
I'll even re-qualify that.
What did I say that led you to believe that?
Well, what I've been hearing is challenges to the decisions that I've made and the seeking for contrast.
And I say to you, Well, you're going to be shocked.
Well, Emmanuel, if you would like me to seek out and find people who just agree with you, I can do that.
No.
We can open the lines and say, only people, only people... I would have never restricted the line from the East to people in Detroit alone.
Well, that, but you see... It's full of people.
You see, though, I'm running the show.
You're the one looking.
I'm not looking.
You're absolutely right.
I'm running the show, and so I'm seeking people from Detroit, not for what you call contrast, But I thought, rather, to let you talk with the people from the exact same area that you came from.
For what reason?
So that, for what I presume to be, the same reason that you publish Destiny Magazine.
Which is in every state of the union.
Well, that's fine.
That's fine.
Look, this is your bio.
You sent it to me.
You're the one who spent a lot of time talking about Detroit.
Uh, and the time you spent in Detroit, and how you got out of there, and why you went out of there, and we talked about the first hour.
I've been gone from there for 25 years.
I wouldn't know how to get around in it now.
No?
No.
You're fixated to it.
Uh, no I'm not.
No I'm not, and um, uh, let us go to that line.
You're on the air with Emanuel McLittle, hello.
I have a question for Emanuel.
Alright, where are you sir?
Call the Wild Card Lines, Area 702-727-1295.
That was just a stupid waste of time, Emanuel.
On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Emanuel McLittle.
Hello, Mr. McLittle.
about that that was just a that was just a stupid uh... waste of time and i think that
uh... on the first time caller line you're on the air with a manual mclintock
uh... hello on the committee will come out here by radio down here
All right.
Where are you, by the way?
I'm just outside of Portland, Oregon, in Vancouver, Washington.
Yeah, you two are close.
How are you, sir?
Beautiful country up there, isn't it?
It's gorgeous.
I'm sorry I didn't hear what part of Oregon you were in, but the whole state is beautiful, so I hope you're enjoying yourself.
Near the Grants Pass-Metcalford area.
Aha!
Southern, yes.
Yes, it's beautiful down there.
Yes, it is.
I have a question, sir.
I respect everything you've done, and I commend you for making something of yourself.
My question is, I am involved in an interracial marriage.
My husband is 45.
I'm 37 and Caucasian.
It is our second marriage.
I was 25 when we were married.
I was pregnant at the time.
We had been seeing each other a couple of years.
I find what you're saying about the naturalness of non-interracial marriages.
I don't get the naturalness of it.
Well, you see, I don't want to get too psychological and talk to you about your personal relationship, because that's a decision that you made that I wouldn't make.
That's all I have to say about that.
I wouldn't do that.
But there is, sometimes, there are conflicts with people of the same race that should not be ran from.
Should be dealt with.
There even ought to be a struggle not to leave.
That there is something to learn about each individual during this struggle.
And the tendency to run away from it is a dead giveaway that there is something about yourself, not your mate, that you don't want to see.
And if life isn't about seeing and developing as a result of progressively more seeing, then it isn't anything.
So, um, the reason that I wouldn't do it is because I think that marriage is the second opportunity for us to deal with parents, peers, all over again, from a mature point of view.
All right, Emanuel.
We could handle it all right when we were 8, but there was another chance to do it when we were 25 or 26.
All right, Emanuel.
No, I, no, I, I... Ma'am, ma'am, hold on just one second.
Emanuel, to be fair, you said you've kind of gone from You are against the whole concept of it.
Yes, I am.
In other words, you were getting down to where you were saying... It's dishonest.
Well, you were saying on an individual basis, you know, that's their choice.
But I wanted to make it clear, again, that you did say that you were against the entire concept.
I'll say it again.
Okay, fair enough.
May I just say that you, lady, if I was next door to you, I have an 18-year-old son who is black, a 17-year-old daughter who is white, and we have a 12-year-old who is a little bit of everything.
But I understand, but don't you feel...
Let me tell you that I have an 18-year-old son who is black, a 17-year-old daughter who
is white, and we have a 12-year-old who is a little bit of everything.
And marriage at its best is work.
I think that is true regardless of races involved.
What I would like to say is that our marriage has brought a tremendous amount of diversity
into my life and to my husband's life, and it has genuinely strengthened our marriage.
The work we've had to do around people's personal opinions and How we've dealt with that on an individual and together.
Our marriage has worked for going on 13 years now and it's strengthened it.
The diversity that he's brought into my life I am very, very thankful for.
Had I married a man of my own race, I wouldn't have that in my life.
Let me just say one other thing.
Had you married a man of your own race, you may have been forced to deal with unresolved conflicts with your dad.
Oh, well, okay.
I disagree with you, sir.
I find a tremendous amount of personal paranoia around Some of the things, I mean, that's, I hear a tremendous amount of paranoia in some of your responses.
And I, you know, I was just questioning it.
Thank you, Art.
I appreciate you allowing me the time.
The best of luck to you, lady.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
So, there are differences, and to some degree, Emmanuel, I find you also overreactive to some of this.
You know, overreactive to some of this.
How so?
How so?
How overreactive?
I simply see what I see, and I say what I see.
And that's fine.
And I'm not a nice guy.
I say what I see.
I'm a real free thinker.
I hope to make friends with Art Bell, but I'm going to say exactly what I see coming out of Art Bell, just as I would The guy that I stand in back of, in the grocery store, I'd probably be a little more friendly.
Alright, well look, Emmanuel... I detect something not right here.
Emmanuel, Emmanuel, Emmanuel!
We've got a break.
It's the top of the hour.
We have no choice on that one.
It's the clock coming, and it's relentless, so we'll be right back.
The trip back in time continues, with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
More somewhere in time, coming up.
I'm going to be a bit of a pain in the ass, but I'm here to help.
I'm going to be a pain in the ass, but I'm here to help.
Tonight's broadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell was recorded on December 20th, 1995.
My guest, Emmanuel McLittle, publisher, editor of Destiny Magazine.
Grew up in Detroit, lives now in Oregon.
Does not believe in mixed marriages.
Thinks there's something inherently wrong with them.
Does not want reparations, money, nor land for blacks.
Describes himself as a free thinker.
And it has produced quite a conversation.
And it's going to continue in just a moment.
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Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Premier Networks.
Back now to Emmanuel McLittle.
Emanuel, welcome back.
Thank you.
Let's try a different tack here.
Move away from the mixed marriages for a second.
And move toward our educational system, okay?
In America, we had segregated schools, for the most part, in our early years.
Then Martin Luther King and so forth.
Marches, change, laws, equal rights amendments, etc.
etc.
To the degree the Supreme Court finally ordered that schools be integrated, if necessary, by Well, again, my views simply square with what's happening now.
what is your view of the mixing of the races uh...
uh... but the in school uh... by forced integration
well again uh...
my view simply square with what's happening now
it is not uncommon for us to see high school graduates who cannot read at a sixth grade
level And this is not happening to a few.
Both colors.
This is happening to a lot of students.
Yep, both colors.
And so, the solution to educating and developing, which is the purpose of education, to develop young people, and to strong, whole, happy, and balanced adults, is not working.
So, integrating schools isn't the thing.
And another shocker, neither is education.
We need it to learn how to make contracts with the technology that is prevalent in our world.
We need it to read.
We need it to write.
We need it to add, subtract, and multiply.
But what makes human beings human beings?
It begins long before a child gets to school.
And when a child doesn't get this ingredient that comes from a whole family or a particularly loving mother or a particularly loving father, Then it's possible to go all the way to dissertation time at doctoral school and be a fool.
If education was the solution to all of our problems in society, then we would be hard-pressed to explain how the nation is in the mess that it's in, in view of the fact that very educated, the best educated lawyers and lawmakers run our country.
Washington is full of them.
There is a Rhodes Scholar in the White House, but education didn't do it for him.
You see, something's wrong with our president.
He cannot see, he cannot even see that he's moving in the wrong direction.
He thinks he's moving in the right direction, and his degrees didn't fix that.
So while I am a recipient myself of a lot of education, Most of what I've learned in life had nothing to do with degrees and credentials and school books.
That only helped me to write it and explain it, but it didn't help me to be it.
Okay, that was a cool speech, but it kind of... It answered your question.
Well, it didn't to my satisfaction, or maybe I just need to rephrase it.
Um, in other words, you think that there should not be integration in the schools?
No, I didn't say that at all.
I said integration didn't change.
Didn't help.
Didn't help?
No, no, because... Did it make it worse?
Yes.
So then... And I began to look to integration for a solution that wasn't there.
Because now we are back to In Milwaukee, like our next cover story will say, certain magnet schools that give inner-city kids a choice.
And some of them are choosing all-black schools.
And in some cases, all-black male schools.
Okay.
Like St.
Aloysius.
Okay, okay, my question is... For some black males in New York.
Alright, Emmanuel, why is that better?
Well, I didn't say that it was better.
I'm saying what we are seeing is The reading scores, the SAT scores improved.
Well, I asked you if it made it worse, and you said yes.
I said... I said that... You said yes.
To look... No, I didn't.
I said to look to integration for a solution that isn't there made it worse.
I see, okay.
So not the actual fact of the integration, but to look to that as a solution made it worse.
Is that correct?
Doggone, I'm having a hard... I guess I'm just not getting it.
We have been living in a time of wise men.
Wise men would have told us in the early 60s that to mix white and black children together does not necessarily ensure proper education.
That proper education can occur in all black Okay, Emmanuel, why?
Arguably, one thing you did agree on, I hope you agreed on it earlier, I said race relations now in America are getting worse.
I think you agreed with that, didn't you?
uh... whether or not the children are coming to school from home prepared to
learn okay emmanuel why
arguably one thing you did agree on i hope you agreed on it earlier i said
race relations now in america are getting worse i think you agreed with
that didn't you uh... we now have more or less
integrated schools Thank you.
Yes.
So, why are race relations getting worse?
Well, I think race relations are getting worse because, um, this might be a little, um, a little kajinxed, but, um, in the 60s, we didn't do what many other groups who've come to this country, and who were, In any instance, discriminated against.
There are some people that simply pulled their belts tight, ignored, walked around the discrimination, built their economies, built hospitals, built factories, became very independent, and rinked it in discrimination and didn't give a damn about who don't like them.
and instead of doing that blacks were encouraged by uh... a liberal elite who can't
couldn't stand us then hate us even worse now
to go into a very different direction and beat against the infrastructure of government as a way
of addressing our problems it didn't work it was the wrong direction
and uh... now we still aren't there and we have three hundred billion dollars
that sprinkle through our fingers every year and You're still out there.
It was the wrong direction.
And if we had simply looked at racism for what it was, and I said it faxed to you, or I think I sent something to you, that racism doesn't have the power that we're all trying to pretend it does.
It doesn't have the power, because if it does, there could be no Emanuel McLittles, or Wilt Chamberlain, or O.J.
Simpkins, or Clarence Thomas.
There could be none of us, you see.
So, and we're not extraordinary people.
We're just normal, ordinary.
One of the many people who made it around what must have been some degree of racism.
I don't know how much racism I incurred because I never looked.
I was busy.
All right, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
Where are you calling from, please?
Good morning, Art.
Good morning, Emmanuel.
Good morning, sir.
I grew up on Mack Avenue.
Oh, east side.
But I live in Bloomfield Hills now.
You two have made a transition.
Sort of.
Yes.
Art wouldn't necessarily be aware of the gap, but one of the things, gentlemen, I'd like to point out is, you know, I think you both got a little bit sidetracked on some of the other issues here, but in your magazine, Destiny, Which I have occasionally read.
Unfortunately, I'm not a regular reader.
I think I will become one.
The issue that really is important here, Art, I think, is how blacks who don't view liberal ideas and racism as the primary determinant of the outcome of their life can overcome that.
Yes.
Well, I do agree with that.
I do agree with that.
The sidetracked areas that we've been into occur in his views regarding interracial marriage and that sort of thing.
I'm not sure if that's a sidetrack.
I have a divergent view from yours, Emanuel.
I think that black, particularly black males, have a benefit, Rodney King notwithstanding, when it comes to women, particularly black women, Uh, black women are a universe of diversity, ranging from ebony, beautiful black women to women who look like Marilyn Monroe, who are black.
Are you aware of that, Eric?
Oh, yes.
Okay.
Now, so I have a problem with, you know, taking a hard position.
I'm married to a Cape Verdean woman who's very fair, but more African than me.
I don't have any comment on this man's choice of marriage.
I'm glad to hear that he is a light thinker and that he is not only not on Mack Avenue no more, he and I know what Mack Avenue is like.
They had good corned beef down on Mack Avenue, but a lot of other things there too.
I appreciate your call.
One question I would have for you, Emanuel, and that is, how has objectivism and maybe ideas from people like Ayn Rand... I loved her writing.
I thought you did.
I loved her writing.
All right, my friend.
Thank you very much for the call.
What about welfare?
Emanuel, if you were the welfare czar or the one who could change it in our lifetimes, as we've known it, as the President has not yet done, which he promised he would do, what would you do with welfare?
I don't know how much time I would give individuals to get off of it, but I think that in a future world, it wouldn't exist.
I have never had it.
That is now the debate.
How much of the future world should we continue to devote to the welfare system?
You know, we're not Burmia or anything like that.
We do have enough wealth in this country to take care of I would want to see a 75-year-old woman who is blind and lives alone and doesn't have any money and is getting robbed every three or four days.
There is something that we can do.
I don't know that I would even give her welfare.
All of my hopes and aspirations have to do with the changing of people's hearts and and that in my future world her family, her neighbors would
make the kind of sacrifice out of a simple love for the woman that she could live very
comfortably and very secure.
Not only do we not want to help our neighbors, we throw our parents away. We put our parents
in places where they are beaten and abused.
I've got a question for you, Manu. Why are there cultural differences between blacks
and whites?
you.
No, that there are huge cultural differences.
I think that we all live in a culture called American culture, and that blacks have been encouraged to reject it.
And we've been encouraged to reject it, not because we genuinely hate it, Well, because this is another point that I've listened to you and I know that you disagree with.
But I must say that I learned the lesson as early as 10 years old, living on a block where I didn't have the money to buy a bike.
Never had a bike until I got to be an adult.
But there was a kid on the same block who had a beautiful 10-speed.
I mean, I hadn't heard anything about a 3-speed, but this guy had a 10-speed, beautiful red.
I wanted it.
And the inference that we sometimes hear that there is no one that wants to control the wealthiest, the most powerful, the most obviously gifted nation in the world is a fallacy.
There are people who want to change us.
There are people who want to manipulate, to deal with us, to put us down.
And I say, part of my reasons for being and doing what I do I want to see large numbers of my kind, racially, on the right side of a great struggle that I believe is coming to this country.
I don't want us to be on the side of those people that I intuitively know hate our guts, and we misconstrue who those people are.
We traditionally think that the haters of blacks are conservatives, but the true haters are very, very Marxist in their thinking.
All right, let's go to Florida.
You're on the air with Emanuel McLittle.
Hello.
Hello.
Where are you, sir?
I'm calling from Sarasota, Bill.
Sarasota.
Hi, Bill.
Hi.
This fellow, what's his name again?
Emanuel McLittle.
Emanuel McLittle made a mention before of something that is crucial to what he's talking about.
Actually, the basic reason for all the other things you were talking about now are discouraging the issue.
And he mentioned it before.
Lay it out.
The home.
You graduate from high school, say you graduate, or you don't graduate, whatever.
You grow up, you have children, and you have no idea, except for maybe from your parents maybe, taught you a little bit here and there, and what you saw around you.
But do you ever get educated, what, when you get married, you have children, what to do with that child?
Yeah, all the education covers everything, but it doesn't teach you how to raise a child.
Yes.
Properly.
Yes.
This is where it starts.
Yes.
This is the beginning.
This is actually the beginning.
If you don't have that, all the cultural differences don't make a damn.
That's right.
And if you don't have it in the first 12 years of life, you're out of the oven and almost done.
I can't tell you.
I wish I had three more hours to tell you the suffering, the psychologically skint knees, the hurting that I've done, the overcoming of certain blocks in my own mind.
Uh, getting beyond my own troubles.
And it all came from having never experienced a whole happy environment.
And this is an embarrassing thing for black people to talk about.
But it must be discussed.
Because if we continue... Alright, alright, alright.
Here is where I want to stop you for a second.
We all know bad stats in the black community.
Yes.
25% of blacks in jail or on parole, whatever it is.
Yes.
Families broken up, numbers of single family households, black women pregnant early, all the rest of it.
Yes.
Why is that, Emmanuel?
Is that cultural?
Or is that because of racism?
No, I don't think it's racism at all.
Okay, why?
That in the early 1900s there was for black America the same scenario that existed for Emmanuel standing on their porch on 12th and Claremont.
I had to make a decision and I wrestled with that decision for three days.
That car was the only thing that I had, and yet, it was the only thing that I could sell, let go, and move, and change my destiny.
And we had an opportunity to do that.
Okay, now you're back to telling me about Emmanuel.
I'm asking you why the black community is in a hole right now.
What you have to do a little bit is listen more, Ark.
Listen, I have been laying back.
What happened to me as an individual happened to a whole group of people.
We had a similar decision to make in the 1890s and 1900s.
And they were actually, the different routes were presented to us
in the form of W.E.B. DuBose and Booker T. Washington.
One suggested that we overlook, that we get over our pain of slavery
and begin to work hard to develop trade, to go to school, to become lawyers and doctors
and build our own destiny and fortunes.
And another one suggested to us, let's start the NAACP so that they can collect funds
from liberals and provide for us a means to beat against government and protest.
Alright, hold it.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
Hold it right there.
We'll be back to you.
Emmanuel McLittle is my guest.
Founder, publisher, editor-in-chief of Destiny Magazine.
There is more to come.
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
On this, Somewhere in Time.
You never told me that I could not love you.
You're dirty, you're sweet, and you count me in.
You never knew me.
You've got the keys that I hide upon you.
You're dirty, you're sweet, you're downright You're a living memory, you've got the keys to the heart of
all of you You're dirty, sweet, and you're my girl
Give it up, there's a door, give it up Give it up, there's a door, give it up
When you're feeling like a call, you've got a hug, can't stand to hear no
Think you like a call, oh yeah Give it up, there's a door, give it up
Give it up, there's a door, give it up Give it up, there's a door, give it up
Give it up, there's a door, give it up Premier Networks present Art Bell Somewhere in Time
Tonight's program originally aired December 20th, 1995 Good morning everybody
Good to be with you.
We're talking with Emanuel McLittle.
He is my guest.
He is the editor, publisher, chief guy at Destiny Magazine.
and we'll get back to him in just a moment.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's broadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell was recorded on December 20th, 1995.
♪♪♪ Back now to Emmanuel McLittle.
Emanuel, you said I should listen a little more.
Um, I think that translates to you wish I agreed with you a little more.
Um, in other words, I am hearing what you're saying and I am comprehending it.
I'm not necessarily agreeing with you fully, which you're feeling.
I know.
Um, but I think if you look back on the amount of time that I've spoken, that I've spoken, we began at 11, we're two and a half hours into it now.
I would bet that you had more air time than I've had.
So, um, you're getting your say.
Are you not?
I haven't measured.
I'm having fun.
All right.
Here comes another call.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
Where are you calling from, please?
Loveland, Colorado.
Welcome.
Thank you.
Good evening.
Mr. McLittle, I have read your magazine and enjoyed it.
Two issues you've brought up I feel very strongly about.
One I agree and the other I disagree with you.
First of all, when it comes to liberals, you couldn't be more right.
I feel that conservatives Use their power and resources to empower big government and big business to continue exploiting people.
And liberals, on the other hand, find ways to pacify the serf class in America, otherwise known as the poor, to keep them from revolting against this system.
So I appreciate what you have to say, and I think you're quite right on.
However, when it comes to mixed-race marriages, I think you couldn't be more wrong.
I'm a member of a multicultural family.
I have Asians, Native Americans and Afro-Americans and Caucasians.
My husband is Afro-American and my children range from, we have four, blonde and blue eyed to ebony black.
We didn't marry because we had psychological problems we needed to work out.
Our marriage wouldn't have lasted as long as it has or been as successful if our marriage was based solely on physical attraction.
And I feel that when people see us, or meet us, and are bothered by the choices we have made, it's because the fact that we are an attack... Did you say people are bothered by your choice?
Like you.
I'm not bothered by it.
I don't know you.
Well, you've attacked it.
Okay, one of you... Hold it, hold it.
One at a time here, or we can't hear you.
Alright.
Uh, you said something, Emmanuel?
I don't... I care nothing about who this old lady married.
I think you're concerned for society in general and what will progress it and what will hurt it.
Let me ask you an honest question.
Sure.
Do you see the good that you've described in your marriage to be dominant and mixed marriages?
Yes.
Oh, I don't.
Well, I do.
And I've seen stats that prove that, unlike the stats you quoted, which cite the opposite.
And the majority of my friends are in a similar situation to mine.
As are the majority of my family members and I see only positive outcomes as a result of it.
Let me ask you one more question.
Sure, ask me.
I wonder how you would explain the fact that throughout the entire history of the world nearly everyone marries a person from their own race.
Why is that?
I think if it's true, that's because they have limited choices.
For example, if I grew up in Asia, the majority of people I meet and encounter are Asian.
And I don't know if that's correct.
You know what I'm saying.
99.2% of everybody that's ever lived married their own kind.
Do you think that that's crazier than the opposite?
I mean, how do you explain that?
How do you explain that?
I'm explaining it by saying we have, often times, we have limited choices.
Fortunately, I grew up in an area where I had a variety of choices and a variety of people I could get to know and interact with, and it broadened my horizons.
But it still happens in America, where we run big pot in America, and yet most people marry their own kind, and you think that it's because they have limited choices?
If most people engage in a certain activity, it doesn't condemn it, nor does it make it right.
In America... So something's wrong with blacks who marry blacks?
Something's wrong with people who think we should be limited in our choices of our friendships and marriages based on skin color.
Oh.
Period.
And as I was going to say, I don't think there should ever be a limit to friendship.
Well, I think you're trying to imply that there should be a limit on marriage, and marriage is preceded by friendship.
Or followed by one of the two.
All right, man.
Thank you very much.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emanuel McLittle.
Hello.
Oh.
Hello, sir.
I was getting into a hard battle there.
You are?
Oh.
How are you, sir?
I'm fine.
You're on the air.
Thank you.
Where are you calling from?
This is out of Reno, Nevada.
All right.
This is old Tom B. Actually, the son of William A. This is Thomas A. here talking at you.
Give you another clue as to where he's at.
Well, look, sir, do you have a question?
Uh, yeah.
Go ahead.
Well, what do you got going on tonight besides those sick lilies over there in Bosnia?
I'll see you later, sir.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
Hello.
I have to reveal something to you quite personal.
Hello, Mr. McLittle.
Hello, sir.
How are you?
I correctly perceive that you have no desire for mixed marriages or see a good reason for
them, but you do not condone the breakup of people who are trying to respect each other
and make the best of whatever their situation is.
Not in the least.
In fact, I have to reveal something to you quite personal.
There are mixed marriages in my own family.
I'm talking about marriage now, quite a sacred institution for me.
Once the marriage has taken place, you never give it up.
Exactly.
With regards to who you're married to.
Well, let me tell you a little something about myself.
My father was the Assistant Executive Secretary of the Michigan Education Association.
Which is me!
Executive Secretary of the Oregon Education Association.
I see.
And he, as a labor union leader, is obviously a socialist.
He's the one who tutored me at the age of three and four in algebra and mathematics and phonetics because I was reading the Dick, Jane, and Spot stuff because I was having trouble in school.
He's the one who told me that American education was woefully inadequate compared with European education.
He grew up in Germany.
Yes.
Now, we went round and round about what was going on in America vis-a-vis unions and socialism in general.
And I've come to discover that this socialist welfare state we have now is actually based on the model of plantation socialism.
And the thing about it is the divisions Between us are not by color.
They're by who works in the big house and who is the field hand.
Everybody else who's not in the government, in other words.
Yes.
Do you agree with that?
No.
No, you don't?
I think there is a bigger difference between us.
I'm not a religious person at all.
I attend no church.
I worship no way except in a small room in my home, sitting still.
I think underneath all of the issues that we fight about is those of us who accept a false, bogus notion that we climbed out of some pool of snot rather than the fact that there is an intelligence in the universe that created us.
I think that that difference is the greatest difference between us, that we love or hate each other on this earth.
That underneath all of the wars where we seem to be fighting about things like economy and borders and territories, the truth, and I believe, I've seen this in history, the truth is that there's always a side that has a view of our origin different than the other.
That, to me, is a greater difference.
Our consciousness, because we talk enough about what we all know in our conscious mind, but there's so much stuff underneath there that we frequently don't say anything about.
And I think that, is there something bigger than us in the universe?
And are we different than animals?
And each of us have decided that on our own individually, and we cling to or divide from each other.
In many instances, based on that unconscious question.
All right, Emmanuel.
Back to the phones.
You're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
Hello.
Where are you calling from, please?
Hello.
Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
All right.
Well, first of all, Art, you asked him a question in the last half hour about why the percentage of black men is high in crime and everything else.
Yes.
I think I have the answer to that.
I don't understand why it hasn't came about before.
If you have, say you have ten white men and two black men.
One white man commits a crime and one black man commits a crime.
In the black race, that's fifty percent.
In the white race, that's ten percent.
No sir, your numbers are incorrect because when we talk about the percentages, we're talking per capita.
Uh, we're not, uh, we're not talking the kind of numbers you're talking about.
Uh, is that correct, uh, Emmanuel?
Yes, that's correct.
And, um, uh, this is quite blunt, but many of those who are in jail who happen to be black, they're there because they committed crimes.
And sadly, some of those crimes were committed because for 30 years, we've actually been encouraged to.
And in subliminal ways, we've been given messages that it's okay to hate whites, that it's okay to rape, rob, and steal from them.
And we can even make songs and rap music and movies that actually depict our hate for whites.
And we've been encouraged to do this.
Is that a culture, Emmanuel?
It's political.
It's political?
Yes.
It's not a culture?
No, I don't think it is.
Culture is what people eat, and the way they think, and the way they dress, and where they go to church.
That's culture.
There's a tendency towards indoctrinating people to believe.
I'm not trying to take all of the responsibility for where blacks are in the world today, but there was a ladder that came.
From manipulating liberals, and liberals is a nice word for what these people who cannot live without controlling other people have done to this group.
And there's one thing that might be a little bit different in terms of my way of speaking, that what I don't see, and I'm happy that I don't see it amongst my people, is we do commit serious crimes against each other and whites, but we are not committing the biggest crimes.
We're not in any of those planning sessions that take place behind closed doors in the UN and Switzerland and The Hague and on some of those submarines where more meetings are held than you can shake a stick at.
And we're not amongst those people who want to manipulate an entire world into a form that is politically expedient for a very few people.
We're not committing the largest of the crimes.
You are suggesting there is a kind of a cabal of high-powered people in high-powered places that are setting the agenda for the world?
Much of our agenda.
And for blacks, along with everybody else?
Blacks, yes.
And blacks, no, too.
To make it happen in the United States, and our instability is no coincidence.
Nobody that loves this country will allow just in the area of TV alone to have transmitted those messages that have been transmitted to the minds of specially baby boomers like you and I are.
Nobody could allow that to happen unless they had bad designs on the country.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
Hello.
Hi there.
Hi, where are you?
I'm in Quincy, Illinois.
All right.
Basically, I have a question, Mr. McLittle.
I'm of the generation or the offspring of those interracial marriages, and I was curious as to your opinion on basically where we fall into this whole race category.
Well, I can't speak specifically about you, you understand, but I do know that Anybody with a willingness to read and research knows that during the 60s, a lot of the marriages and the sexual exchange that took place between radical blacks and feminist whites had nothing to do with love or concern for the offspring that
is now in their mid-twenties.
And these groupings is only one example of what I mean when I say that there is a getting together by different races that is as devious and as dishonest as devious can get.
Well see, that says or has the implication that My whole existence is based on neediness.
No, sir, I don't want to talk about you personally.
I don't know your mother, or your dad, or your... I don't know how your parents... I'm talking about a group, a mentality that existed in the 60s.
John, this is where I think you're dead wrong, Emmanuel.
There are some marriages that were based, as you suggest.
There are also interracial marriages that are based on nothing more than any other marriages based on, and that is mutual attraction, friendship, love, An eventual maturing of that love or a breakup, whichever way it goes.
Let me ask you this, Mr. McGill.
Do you think that over the course of time that we should, I guess, evolve away from individual races, like races, and be as one as a human race?
I mean, I had someone ask me, when I was applying for college, what race I categorized myself under.
And I looked at the man and honestly said, human.
And he told me not to get smart with him.
I was very offended.
And yes, it is a smart comment, but it is also a very true comment, and I don't categorize myself as being black or white.
Yes.
You make a good point, and I can't tell you what my view would be in a world where we have transcended.
God hope that we do transcend, because we are much more than our skin colors, but we are not in that world now, you see.
But if we remain Separate, Emmanuel, we'll never be in any other world.
It is futile and immature to want to meld the differences by lower skin color when the real differences are at a deeper level.
The real differences between blacks and whites is not racial.
Okay, but what you seem to say is That it'd be okay if eventually someday those differences occurred naturally, but you are not willing to take that path to get there.
Yeah.
No, I don't think there needs to be a path taken.
I don't believe that we... I like animals.
I believe that a greater intelligence than you and I has spread the colors on this earth and trees, animals, and people, and it is not my prerogative, in my view, To try to remove it.
I think that it is a brilliant design to have the different kinds of people that exist, and I think all of those people ought to remain in existence until something smarter than me and you changes it.
But see, perhaps that something that's smarter than you and I is our own innate sense of evolution as a humanity, as a human race.
Excuse me?
I think it's bull.
All right, there you go.
That's pretty intelligent right there.
See, I don't understand why you... I'm not sure that response is that of a free thinker.
I'm sorry, Emanuel.
Well?
You know, you're welcome to say what you want, as I said, and I'm letting you say what you want.
Yes.
But I don't regard that as necessarily free thinking.
I think that what you call free thinking Is conservative thinking, really?
Yeah.
Right?
Then you being a conservative, you and I ought to agree on most things, huh?
Well, I think we do on a lot of things.
For example, I agree certainly with you on what the liberals have done to the minorities in this country, not just blacks.
And I think there has been a very great deal of damage done.
Where we disagree, apparently, He is in a way that this damage can be corrected.
Listen, we're coming to the top of the hour, Emmanuel.
Yes.
And I will give you a choice to either go to sleep gently now or to stay around for another hour.
I'm having more fun now.
Well, in that case, stay tuned.
There's more fun ahead.
My guest is Emmanuel McLittle.
He is the editor-in-chief of Destiny.
Magazine, he grew up in Detroit, in a rough neighborhood, and he got out, he is out, he's in Oregon now, and we're talking about race relations, race generally, and we'll be back and do more of it.
You're listening to the best in live talk radio.
That's right, live.
It's happening right now.
From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
We'll be right back.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
tonight's broadcast of coast to coast a m with art bell was recorded on december
twentieth nineteen ninety-five and
and and
and and
and you're listening to art bell somewhere in time on premier
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and this is not the home of your normal talk radio.
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Let's talk a little bit about the shadow government.
Do you believe it's there?
Yeah, we've heard that term, you know, for so many years and I thought it was this group in the Netherlands that sit behind smoked windows and make decisions like, you know, giant players of chess.
But it isn't.
We don't have the government anymore.
What we have is a loose coalition of bureaucracies.
But we have no representation in that government.
So when I look at the Constitution, I see it as a really inspired and eternal document that has been sidestepped in almost every legal way possible.
So the process itself has been intentionally manipulated to facilitate a certain style of government.
And it's taken a while to set up.
But I think it's set up now, and it's working just the way they like it.
We need a systemic change.
In order to let the Republic be representative of the people again.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's broadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell was recorded on December 20th, 1995.
My guest, of course, is Emanuel McLittle.
He is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Destiny Magazine.
We'll tell you at the end of the hour here, once again, how to get a copy of that, if you would like it.
We'll give out the 800 numbers, so get a pencil ready.
Right now, he's back on the air with Charlie.
Both of you are back on the air again.
Well, I was simply saying that conservative policy has simply been devastating on the black people, simply devastating.
And the worst part of it has been their interference with the criminal justice system.
when you have conservatives cutting out inner city programs and saying let's build more prisons,
well those prisons, they're putting black people in those prisons.
They talk about let's be less lenient with the laws.
Those black people, a young black person that commits a crime right now can expect
to do a lot more time rather than any type of rehabilitation type program.
Those are the conservatives who are locking up black people and it amounts basically to a return to slavery.
So I'm sure a lot of conservatives are playing with that.
Well, you're typically uninformed, and I would suggest to you that most large cities have more black judges sitting on benches than you obviously realize.
No, I understand that.
I pointed that out to you.
Just a second, sir.
It is mostly black judges sentencing young black men to prison.
You need to check your facts.
Well, you need to check the fact of who's setting the law.
A judge does not make the law.
A judge only goes by the law.
The people that are sitting making the laws are the white guys with the power going, okay, politically, I think it would be better for me if some kid robbed a liquor store, for me to give him, say, eight years rather than two years, therefore I'll look tough on him.
It is conservatives who, despite, regardless to why they did, they left us alone.
It is you liberals that mothered all of the life and ingenuity and genius out of us.
Is that right?
Yes it is.
And I tell you, I've heard a couple of people say that I was angry.
If there's anything that's capable of upsetting me, it's liberalism.
Let me ask you a question.
Some of the best doctors that we have right in this country are black doctors.
Isn't that correct?
When you talk about genius.
You know that a lot of those black doctors took advantage of quote-unquote liberal programs to get into school?
You almost imply that if liberalism didn't give it to them, they wouldn't be capable of having it.
No, but I'll tell you this.
Certainly, doctors who have been doctors for 20 or 30 years, that's absolutely correct.
If you look, if you go back to the 1960s, how many highly trained black surgeons did we have back then?
You know, your kind is such cowards, that you're not strong enough to wreak the havoc that you want to wreak on this country, because you resent its prominent...
You have to use a race of people as a battering ram to get policies through that shape us in a way that none of us can recognize.
I say that there is so much disingenuousness in liberalism.
It sickens me when I see President Clinton put his hand on a woman's lap.
It's not about giving anybody anything, but it's because we understand that there has
to be a ladder in society and that some people in society have a head start over other people.
Not because they're smarter, not because they're better, but because of who they are and where
they were born.
And let's face it, a white guy born to a rich family, no matter how intelligent he is, is
going to have a head start over a black person born in the ghetto, surrounded by drugs.
But I came from the ghetto.
Absolutely, there are a lot of successful black people who came from the ghetto.
How do you explain intelligent black people who came from the ghetto?
I think there are just as many intelligent black people born in the ghetto as there are white people born in the rich family.
Unfortunately, You have so many factors around you when you are in the ghetto, such as drugs, such as gangs.
It's very difficult even for an average person to break out of that.
Let me inform you of something.
Blacks, by the millions, are learning something that liberals haven't caught on that we're learning yet.
And we're changing our minds quietly all over this country.
And we see you, my friend, for what you are.
And let me take this personally.
I'm talking about Liberalism.
I'm not talking about an individual.
But you are being seen, and you're so blind, that you don't know that the Bloods, and the Crips, and the Gangsters, the Blacks that are in jail, we've had 20 years of watching you manipulate us.
We see you clearly.
Well, I think unfortunately, whether you're talking about extremism from a white extremist, such as Tom Metzger, or an extremist like yourself, I don't think that you can speak for the majority of black people.
Alright, we'll hold it there.
Are you an extremist, Emanuel?
I don't think so.
Common sense owns what I think.
Truth.
Alright.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emanuel McLittle.
Hello.
Hello.
Where are you?
St.
Paul, Minnesota.
Okay.
I don't know what's wrong with you tonight, but I've always been so impressed.
We haven't gotten you here that long.
I think it's a little better in a year, but you're not yourself tonight.
How so?
It's just something I'm noticing.
uh... when you were in a review interviewing harry brown you can ask him where he left
and the gentleman that was talking about that are doing a little excuse me uh...
in uh...
emmanuel mcliddle's uh...
a bio which he sent to me it specifies
where he lives are not So, I didn't have to ask.
It is part of the story.
He's speaking about the apparent fixation.
Yeah, it is part of the story.
I'm not fixated on it.
If necessary, Emanuel, I would be glad to re-read for you, word for word, your own words, in your own bio, Which stresses where you came from.
Is that accurate?
No, I don't see a stress in it at all.
The bio is four or five pages and you might be reading a line or two that mentions where I currently live.
Well... There's no stress in it at all.
What I'm happy to see is the number of people that are what I call perceptive.
A tool that we need in these very, very I don't know.
back in the late 90's where so much of what is wrong is being presented as though it were
good.
It's over the heads of a lot of people, but your audience is a very intelligent audience.
They see things that I sometimes worry, boy do people see that?
People hear what Tom Brokaw tried to do today?
I'm happy lately that so many people see what I see.
We stand a chance against those people who some of us want to deny exist.
Many of us see them.
In the argument that you just had, or the discussion, we'll call it, with Charlie, I found myself easily, without strain, on your side.
You're undeniably right.
with regard to what liberalism as a political philosophy has done and you're undeniably right that blacks across america are beginning to slowly change their minds.
They're catching on, yeah.
I agree with all that, Emmanuel.
The only place that you and I differ is in how we are to get ultimately to where the racial differences don't matter.
And I think that means a mixing of the races, and you don't.
I mean, that's... Yes, I... No, I don't.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, um, that... that is... that is a difference.
We have similarities.
We have differences.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
Well, how are you, Art?
Fine.
Turn your radio off, please.
I did, sir.
Uh, once again, you shine brighter than a star.
What... where are you calling from?
I'm calling from Greeley, about 50 miles north of Denver.
Yes, sir.
Um... I wanted to ask your guest...
First again, how old is he?
47.
How old?
47.
47.
The woman from Loveland I really agreed with.
Yeah?
She talked to you for a while about some of the things that... She's from an area, and we've had a very conspicuous thing go on here, and it has had some things to do with color over the last decade.
I really think that You, sir, are on the right track.
You stand the right ground.
You even wield the right sword, but you're hacking at the wrong pieces.
You may be a bit angry, and if you become... Not usually.
I have not developed the ability to be truly objective with a certain kind of person.
That is not the word to describe them.
This is one of the deceptions that America has swallowed.
We think of them as liberals, but they're far more devious than that word would imply.
And they have no problems upsetting the pillars and signposts that have guarded human destinies to healthier ways of existing.
Since the beginning they have no problem separating separating us from that they are experts at creating a kind of doubt and confusion in individuals and in whole groups of Individuals and it's almost like it's almost like do you do you have a computer sir?
do you ever do you know what you ever had a virus you ever seen the way a virus does and A computer?
Yeah, I knew something about it.
It wreaks havoc, turns things upside down, makes things go off when they should come on, twists things around, and this is more like what liberalism has done to a country that had many of the right goals for human beings.
Now, I tend to agree with you.
In that extent, I tend to agree with you.
Could I ask you a personal question?
Yes, sir.
Do you ever take on temporary help on your ranch?
On my ranch?
Yeah.
Oh, it's not that big.
It's only 20 acres.
I'd love to come work with you for a week or two when you need help in the spring or something.
I couldn't get rid of you if you ever got put here.
So beautiful.
All right.
Thank you very much for the call.
The employment line does not begin here.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
Hello.
Wow, I got through.
You know, wow, you got through.
Where are you?
This is James from Santa Rosa.
Yes, sir.
Yeah, um, you know, I was listening to you guys talk about the OJ case there for a moment, and I've been listening to everybody talk about black and white and everything else, and it's starting to really burn me.
And I looked at the case, and I saw a black man on trial, and he looked guilty, but then I looked at who was investigating the case, And he couldn't be trusted.
He couldn't have been trusted to walk a little girl across the street.
You mean Mark Furman?
Mark Furman, yes.
He... I don't know if he did something wrong or if he did something right.
All I know is he should never have been on a case investigating that case.
And to me, that's why the jury said, sorry, we can't trust the evidence.
We can't convict a man.
Who cares if he's black or white?
Yeah.
The problem was with the investigator.
Yes.
There's another problem.
What's that?
There is another problem that I would like to make a prediction about.
Okay.
If he had worked through the problems that every man encounters with his life, his first one, it would have never occurred.
You mean O.J.?
Yes.
Oh, I agree with you.
You know, O.J.
Simpson had problems in his life, but that had nothing to do with the jury or the decision as far as I see it.
Yeah, but...
Emmanuel, here you go again.
You're saying that the reason all this happened... No.
No, I'm saying... Well, O.J.
left his black wife and married a white woman.
His first wife?
Yeah.
If he had not left his first wife, it would have never occurred.
He'd have never married her.
He'd have told her to go home.
But how are we to know?
He'd have signed an autograph and said, listen, young lady, go home.
I'm a married man.
What are you doing?
Emmanuel, what if his first wife had been Nicole?
His first wife wasn't Nicole.
I understand that.
But you're saying, uh, if he had never left his first wife, this never would have occurred.
That's fine in hindsight.
And I'm asking you what... I'm trying to get something across.
More than leave his first wife, work.
Understand.
Persevere.
Through that time, it's difficult for every couple.
That's what needs to have happened with O.J., Emmanuel, and many millions of us.
Something happens.
And I characterize that I'm not the time when I said when the sex gets customary.
And I was no different than most other people.
I married my wife at a very young age because simply she was a beautiful woman.
An 18-year-old beautiful woman.
And that was the wrong reason.
She was also a very, very nice person inside, but I didn't discover that for 10 years.
Well, that's no different than many other people.
And what my argument with you has been all night is that that can be the very same situation with a black man and a white woman, white woman, black man, or brown or any other color, Asian, whatever.
Uh, the same forces, uh, come to bear, and, uh, same reasons for initial marriage, and then same, same... I say with an added complication.
And, well, may, oh yeah, I, I, I don't deny that, uh, that there may be an added complication, but the same process over years occurs, and either it matures into a real love, or it does not.
You agree that there is an added complication in interracial marriages?
Oh, absolutely.
Only because of the present state of society.
Not because of... In other words, that external complication comes because of external pressures.
I see.
Not because of some basic cultural or significant difference born of skin color.
I see.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
This is LaFrance from Austin.
Hello, LaFrance.
Manuel McLittle, I think that you're right on the money with just about everything that you've said.
I think that you're beyond art and the people that are listening's heads.
No, not necessarily, my friend.
There are many, many people who understand.
It's a sort of a coded speech called understanding, common sense, that has been ripped from the psyche of most Americans, not by somebody who did it by accident.
I agree.
I totally agree with what you're saying.
What I have to contain myself with Art is that he tries to rip you apart.
Only because he He disagrees, and it agrees vehemently on perhaps something that he's dealing with himself.
And this is the reason that even you, when you make contact with people in your life that disagree with you, don't get too upset.
You don't know the reasons that they disagree, and you don't know... For an example, if you sit down and talk to a white man, are you black?
Yes I am black.
If you sit down and talk to the average white man, guess what you'll find?
He has the same fears, the same struggles, and life has an opposing wind against his
face, as it does to yours.
And you'll find yourself easy to make friends and identify with people and not even see
All right, Emmanuel, we've got to hold it there.
Clock says bottom of the hour.
We'll be right back.
Emmanuel McLittle is my guest.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
More, somewhere in time, coming up.
The End.
I'm So Excited I'm So Excited
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Premier Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired December 20th, 1995.
My guest, Emmanuel McLittle, founder, publisher, editor-in-chief, big guy at Destiny Magazine, and we'll get back to him in a
moment.
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Now, we take you back to the past on Arkbell Somewhere in Time.
We're back to it now.
Emanuel, are you there?
I'm here.
You've got a good, strong constitution.
You're going to make all five hours here.
I loved every minute of it.
I'm glad.
All right.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Emmanuel McLittle.
Hello.
Hi, Art.
This is Ed.
I'm calling from San Diego.
Hi, Ed.
How are you doing?
Okay.
Listen, there's one thing I wasn't quite sure until tonight, but there's one thing I'm convinced of for sure, and that Art Bell has the best show ever.
This program is the most exciting that I've ever heard, bar none.
I appreciate it.
I really thank you for that.
Thank you.
I think there's a way to look at the conflict of understanding.
I think Manuel is speaking in terms of concepts or a more right-brain approach, and you're speaking in specifics or a left-brain approach.
And a number of the callers have tried to point this out.
I think the emphasis on the racial aspect is really How do you feel about the no-fault divorce?
Wait a minute, sir.
You asked him how he felt.
Let him answer.
It didn't help us very much.
I'd like to ask a question of the man.
How do you feel about the no-fault divorce?
My feeling on that is that it didn't help us.
Wait a minute, sir.
You asked him how he felt.
Let him answer.
It didn't help us very much.
You've heard me say several times that there comes a period when difficulty in all of the
fantasies that we went into the decision to select some of our mates is stripped away
6, 8, 9, 10, 12 years for some people.
A difficulty arises that is painful, confusing and sometimes...
It puts in us a fight or flight response and usually we run away from a pain that we don't
want to face.
It is exactly the pain that we need to face that gives us a boost into that second layer
of maturity that is in everyone if we would just stay.
And there are other things in life that does it, you know, basic training.
There are a lot of things that does it.
But one thing for sure that does the most for men and women to reach this level of maturity
and perceptiveness is weathering that storm.
And if I have done anything right in my life, I married to my wife for 28 years, February
16th and it has been stormy.
But recently there is a friendship growing that I wouldn't exchange for anything.
Well, that's really refreshing.
You listen to all the talk shows, you listen to the psychologists that come on the air.
The attitude is, basically, if you've got a problem, then ditch the guy.
If you don't feel like the relationship is working, then ditch them.
That seems to be the attitude.
I've been married for 29 years.
My wife got a lot of money and now she's decided to get a divorce.
I talk to psychologists, whoever I can talk to, and they all just say, well, if she wants a divorce, there's nothing you can do about it.
I understand the reason for the court systems and whatever from the no-fault divorce, but you talk about the basics of the family, the ability to greet those issues and to learn who you are.
And I think that, you know, even more than any racial kinds of difficulties, I think the no-fault divorce has really, really hurt that problem.
I call it no-blame or irresponsible divorce, is the way I call it.
You don't even get a chance to say, you know, it works out.
Do what you can to be patient with your wife.
Put your car outside our new house.
And if you love her, make sure that if she separates from you, She doesn't do it with a firm knowledge that you loved in a way that she cannot duplicate.
She won't die a happy death, my friend.
I'm not saying to wish that on her, but don't yourself give up on it.
Something may have happened to her.
We're not inside each other's minds.
We can't make judgments about... You can't even make a judgment about your wife.
I don't know your particular situation, but follow her work.
Get on the freeway and get behind her.
29 years, don't let it go so easy.
Make your wife know that there's a love, deep love for her in your own self.
All right, now you're sounding more like a psychologist.
But that's all right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emanuel McLittle.
Hi.
Hi, this is Aleutia calling from Colorado.
Yes.
Yeah, listen, on a scale of one to ten, Emanuel, ten.
I am so pleased to hear from a man A human being and a black that seems to have a lot of rationale and it seems like you've been paying attention and you know what I give the credit to is actual raw experience.
Yes.
And that you're giving this back to your race.
Letting them know that it's the internal combustion.
Yes.
That they must do it.
That our handouts And I've been so sick of this, Emmanuel.
I've called and talked until I'm blue in the face.
You can't keep giving handouts and demand a person to be responsible.
Yes.
You cannot spoil children and expect them to be obedient.
Because the stress that comes up through the trunk of a tree and stretches its limbs out to be huge is similar to the same kind of stress that's in human beings.
and if you don't let that stress force you to create ways to get your own food, your
own housing, so many other things and the wonderful psyche that God has given us never
happens, never grows.
It takes oppression and resistance.
The men should know because they go to a gym and they work out on equipment to force pressure against the muscle.
Yeah.
To build definition.
I wish they'd do the same for their hearts.
I don't see a nation full of men.
I see a nation of feminized men who love comfort and won't stand up, won't have conviction, don't stick with their women and children.
That's our whole problem is the lack of men.
Emanuel, I hope you can reach your people because I can't.
All right.
Thank you very much, ma'am, for the call.
Emanuel, one great argument going on in this country right now about social services involves Exactly how we get people off welfare and everybody wants to change welfare, hates it the way it is, understands the damage, the profound damage it is doing, but we're a nation now, particularly in the black community, but whites too, filled with single-family households, mom, two or three or fourteen kids, whatever, and when we, whether it's now or two years from now,
take mom off of fbc or welfare uh... there are infants ranging uh... down to uh... newborns
nearly uh... who will suffer as a result of that uh... so we're
having a great fight about how we achieve this how do we do that
well it would be nice if the
if the mentality that split our families and destroyed that structure of our
society would admit it and show us all the connection between strong families
and an eventual policy that will allow you to take people off welfare within
eighteen months but absent
uh... any acknowledgement that something went wrong and ripped our families apart and
now having created these dependent
People who could never, like a pet animal, never go out and fiend for themselves.
Something is gone.
I have a problem, a little problem, and I'm in a dichotomy about it because if I had the pen, I'd sign the legislation tomorrow that in two years there is no more welfare, and yet I know and have come in contact and sat in a closed room with people who never function again in life.
Correct.
So, is it a generational change, not a two-year change?
No, no, it's a 25-year change, but I don't think it's right.
If there is a part that you and I put our money in, you and I ought to agree mostly on where we ought to spend it.
And too many people, if there is anything close to freedom in America, It has to be connected with what we do with our money.
And too many people who put their money in this pot don't want it to go to where it's going.
And eventually, those people have as much right to withdraw their money from where it's being used as those people who believe they have a right to receive it.
All right.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emanuel McLittle.
Hi.
Hello, Art Bell.
Hi, Emanuel.
Yes, our previous caller accused you of being a bigot.
Where are you, ma'am?
I'm from Seattle.
My name is Roxanne.
I listened to you during the Million Man March, and you were very fair.
And I also disagree with Charlie about the funds.
All the funds in Seattle are given to the black schools first, the pools get built there first, and then the whites get them last.
But I have a question, Emmanuel.
Yes.
What would you think, would you like it if, how would you like it if a million men march, a million men, white men had to march?
I don't put a whole lot of stock in marching.
I'm an individualist.
If your liver goes bad, it gets sick one cell at a time.
And it's not right to ask your stomach cells to come over and help deliver.
It doesn't work like that.
Do you think it's a double standard?
Yes.
And it is a double standard that has so angered whites.
And I'll tell you, when I was a psychologist, hostility was my specialty.
And you know what happens to a hostility that you forbid a whole race of people from expressing?
Do you know how angry whites are, and particularly white men?
Liberals have got that right.
But part of the reason is that they're never allowed to invent it.
They're never allowed to say that they're angry about what has gone on in the black community.
And they're angry that such a 12% of the people has tilted the country on one side to the point where we're taking in water in our bowels, so to speak.
Whites are angry.
And they have a right to be angry.
Well, I'm not white.
You know, what would you think if Indians, you know, had a million man march?
You know, I mean, you know, I don't think either one ought to have existed.
Oh, I see.
So you disagree with that totally?
Well, I disagree with the march.
I don't think it was right.
And I don't think, if you haven't heard the discussion tonight, you know... No, I tuned in about an hour or two ago and I heard Charlie... One of the things that I say without saying it is, it isn't words that changes people.
It is where the speaker is coming from, the intent, the depth.
What side of his heart is it coming from?
Is it meant to help or is it meant to hurt?
And Minister Farrakhan says so many of the right things, but from a heart of rage, from an anger towards Jews... I have no rage in my heart for black people or white people.
Good.
Did you raise healthy children?
I didn't know if anyone had called in or not and brought up that question.
The first thing that Minister Farrakhan should have repented of was his involvement in the death of Malcolm X.
Who did nothing.
Who did nothing more than to discover, like I did, that there was something else, true, other than what he used to think.
And the moment that he began to speak it, he was snuffed out.
Haven't you convicted a man that has not legally been convicted?
No, I haven't convicted him.
I simply said that he boasted of his own involvement and Malcolm X death.
I ask, what was his crime?
What was the crime?
And why are you so attentive to my opinion about Malcolm X, I mean Lewis Faircombe, and so less attentive to the sentence that was passed on this man?
The sentence that was passed on him?
On Malcolm X, yes.
A sentence was passed on him And he was gunned down, blown to bits in front of three little brothers who watched it.
Yes, indeed.
But I don't know for certain who perpetrated that.
I guess you do.
Yes, I do.
Oh, you have personal knowledge.
He's written it.
He's said it.
It isn't the kind of thing that you boast about.
But amongst the nation of Islam, it was a proud deed.
Alright, we're running terribly short on time, and before it does run out, I want to give you a chance to give out your number again.
So, uh, to get your magazine, Destiny Magazine, that follows up, I'm sure, on many of the things you've said here tonight.
Yes.
People would call what number?
Say it twice, at least.
1-800-545-5842.
Only after 8 o'clock in the morning.
5 8 4 2 only after 8 o'clock in the morning that's 1 800 545 58 42 and stomach for all common sense
It's helpful.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emanuel McLittle.
Hi.
Hi, I was from Seattle.
Yes.
Oh, you're on the wrong line, ma'am.
Oh, could you give me the number?
1-800-618-8255.
We'll go to that line.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello, Art.
Hi.
Yes, I'm calling from Los Angeles.
Yes, ma'am.
And I admire what Emmanuel is saying greatly.
And my comment would be, would you say, Emmanuel, that most people are scratching at the proverbial surface, the tip of the iceberg, so to speak?
Yes.
And they can't get, their understanding is clouded by what they receive, so that there's so much more to understand.
We'll talk about it on the surface, ma'am.
It's a clever distraction to avoid the deeper and the inner.
It's a distraction because it's painful in there.
The discoveries are painful.
The truth that you are not is painful.
A reality that you didn't create is painful.
The brick wall that will smash your head is painful.
You don't acknowledge this reality.
It's painful.
And we all want to avoid pain.
But you cannot.
In a sense, ignorance is bliss.
Sort of a high.
And the people at that level who stay in an ignorance, so to speak, are easily deceived.
Easily deceived.
And they have people who champion that ignorance as if it was something great.
And as long as we are a society that surrounds ourselves with a hypnotic kind of championing
of ignorance, then you will always be able to control the masses.
And let no one tell you, let no one make you doubt that it is accidental.
Oh I don't.
And I think that hopefully with your help and others...
I don't have one.
can get beyond the veil.
Thank you.
Thank you, ma'am.
On the first time caller line, as time grows short, you're on the air with Emanuel McLittle.
Hi Emanuel, how are you doing tonight?
Hello sir, how are you?
All right.
Listen, what is your religious denomination?
I don't have one.
Okay.
Because you...
For me, God is something that you read less about, talk less about, and live.
Okay.
Because you're not a Christian, you're not a Christian.
I'm interpreting this as you coming from a spiritual and a more deep inner self.
You need to involve yourself in self-reflection.
There are several levels that you seem to be talking on.
One is self-reflection.
and doing things on your own and taking on responsibility for your place in the world.
It seems that everyone needs to understand that we are all connected in some way in life.
One of the biggies is facing the pain that lies right in front of your path.
I am currently working two jobs.
One is a real estate agent and another I work a night job from five to midnight.
It's not something I enjoy.
You've got kids?
No, but I have a fiancé and we are struggling every single day and every single hour.
Do you want to talk about what you see in each other?
Absolutely.
We're struggling in terms of creating our own reality.
Are you honest with her?
Pardon me?
Are you honest with her?
Am I honest with her?
Yes.
In terms?
In what terms?
Your discussions.
Oh, absolutely.
What she sees about you.
Alright, look, we're going to have to end this on a high note.
Emanuel, we're out of time.
Caller, thank you.
All the callers, thank you.
Emanuel, it has been a pleasure, despite what discreements we've had.
It has been a pleasure having you on the program.
I don't keep a lot of guests for five hours, so there you go.
I've enjoyed it immensely, and I look forward to the day that you and I sit at the same table and sip a cup of coffee together.
Emanuel, thank you for hanging in there, and you have a good night.
You too.
Take care, my friend.
All right, that's it.
Sorry, we are governed by the clock.
So, if you would like a copy of this program, you can get it by calling 800-917-4278.
Let me repeat that number.
1-800-917-4278.
A program with Emanuel McLittle.
I'm Art Bell from the high desert.
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