David Kagan, metallurgical engineer and author of Sunstroke, exposes NASA’s $19.5M Solar Power Satellite (SPS) project—a 3-mile-wide satellite beaming microwaves to Earth, risking fatal heating, weather disruption, and weaponized attacks like disabling nuclear warheads or targeting hurricanes. Kagan warns of military tests, including a 2,800-pound U.S. Spartan satellite generating 10MW microwaves, and HAARP’s role in ionospheric experiments with potential global consequences. Callers debate suppression, orbital lasers, and public oversight, while Bell critiques secrecy amid scientific advancements, fearing unintended disasters like acid rain or ozone collapse. Kagan’s revelations highlight how unchecked energy projects could threaten humanity without transparency. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and good morning, respectively, across these time zones stretching from the Tahitian and Hawaiian islands and visions of candy canes all the way across to the Caribbean and U.S. Virgin Islands.
Gotta write that down into South America and north, we believe all the way to the Pole.
This is Coast to Coast A.M. And yes, we're live talk radio all night long.
And we go at click tick this morning.
My guest is going to be David Kigan.
What a great surprise it was.
As you know, I'm a great science fiction fan.
I guess everybody knows that by now.
Only we're going to mix a little science fiction with a little science fact.
David wrote a book called Sunstroke that I had read some number of years ago.
It's actually one of my favorites in the genre of the Andronomist, Andromeda Strain.
Genre, yes, but certainly a different kind of book.
The thing about this book, though, is that this novel you see is based on the True Life $19 and $1.5 million alternative energy proposal prepared by NASA and the Department of Energy.
The story explores the disastrous potential of this particular project.
Someday it could certainly be fact, and we'll find out how far they're going with it or intend to go with it and exactly what it's all about.
But I can tell you this much.
As you know, we need alternative energy very much, and some people work on cold fusion or zero-point energy and various machines.
Well, this is a real project to put a satellite in orbit, where, of course, without the dense atmosphere, why you can collect sunlight in a very, very efficient manner and convert it to energy, then, of course, you've got a problem of how to get it down to the Earth camera on a cable.
So what you can do is send it by microwave.
And that is how sunstroke begins.
He's written another book as well, and we will explore that.
So it'll be a science fiction-laden, fun kind of morning this morning, and I think you're going to enjoy it.
It really is pretty cool, you know, to read a book and be a fan of an author, a book, for a long time, and then suddenly get a letter from him with a second copy.
Now I have two copies of Sunstroke.
This one signed, I might add.
You know, it's something you really enjoyed years ago.
And then to get a letter and find out he's a fan of the show, has been listening to the show.
That's David Kagan.
Since 1986, Mr. Kagan has headed the SpectroScan Corporation, that being a consulting firm specializing in metallurgical testing and analysis of ferrous and non-ferrous alloys and composite materials.
The company employs various non-destructive inspection techniques, including ultrasonics, radiography, radography, I guess it would be, and any current electrical conductivity.
Kagan is a graduate of Northrop University with a Bachelor of Science degree in metallurgical engineering.
He has been under contract with the Quality Control Research and Development Department at Northrop, the California-based manufacturer of the stealth B-2 bomber.
That takes me back to the composite materials part.
And the MX missile.
Kagan has participated in the non-destructive testing programs for the F-5E and YF-17 jet fighter interceptor projects at Edwards Air Force Base.
A lot of you know where that is, about 75 miles northeast of LA.
Also served as consultant for the Materials Research Group at Rockwell International Space Division in Downey, California, for the Garrett Auxiliary Power Division in Tempe, Arizona, and for other firms and military bases throughout the state of Arizona.
Well, sir, a few years back in the late 1980s, I found out that the Energy Department and the Defense Department were going ahead with the development of the Solar Power Satellite Project.
Now, this concept has been around for a while, but I was surprised and shocked to learn that they were going ahead with it.
Okay, so what this project is calling for is an enormous structure.
This is the ultimate satellite that they are considering and going ahead with development now.
It's going to be three miles wide, six miles long.
Now, with a satellite having a solar cell array of that size, we're talking about 5,000 megawatts, 5 gigawatts, which is the equivalent to the output of five nuclear power plants.
You well understand, and for your listeners, I'll just elaborate a little bit more, is that as you have mentioned over the air, a satellite in geosynchronous orbit will be exposed to basically perpetual sunlight on a 24-hour basis.
And by the way, we ought to start by adding that another great science fiction writer, Arthur C. Clarke, prophesies the existence of what is now known as the Clark Belt, which is a certain distance from Earth.
And when you get out at a certain distance, the satellite with respect to Earth is traveling at exactly the same relative speed.
Just before we get to that, the satellites that we're utilizing right now to get the signal everywhere do not automatically, once you put them there, stay exactly where they are.
They stay within what is called a box, a little area.
And I will add incidentally at this time that the solar power satellite, once it is deployed in orbit, will also have to be maintained within its own box with the thrusters being fired from time to time, all under computer control to keep it in a fixed orbit on a 24-hour basis, 365 days a year.
And up there, the solar cells will be converting this sunlight, which is falling constantly on the gigantic array, directly into DC electricity.
Now, these are conventional solar cells that we're talking about that the Energy Department, NASA, and the Defense Department will be installing on the solar cell array for the solar power satellite.
The reason is because they've been tested for many years.
They're silicon cells.
They're cheap, efficient, and reliable.
And they will be converting sunlight up there directly to direct current electricity.
Now, here's where it gets very interesting.
The DC current will then be funneled into the satellite's microwave transmitter.
Now, this is a structure that will be approximately the area of a football field.
And inside it will be approximately 157,000 klystron tubes.
Yes, that's right.
Kalistrons, the same type of tubes that are used in conventional radar.
And they will be converting directly this DC electricity into microwave energy.
The microwave transmission beam from the satellite will be directed at what's called a rectenna.
And that's just a short term for receiving antenna.
Now the antenna, the rectenna we're talking about that will receive the microwave beam from space will be on the order of approximately 8 by 10 miles in diameter.
We're talking about a fairly large structure.
And when the microwave beam hits, strikes The rectenna, the billions and billions of dipoles that would be built into the rectenna will instantly convert the microwave beam back into useful direct current electricity that'll be funneled directly into the utility power grids.
Now, just very, very briefly, I will explain intensities here.
The solar power satellite will generate a microwave beam at a power level of about 60 kilowatts per square meter.
Now, that's at an altitude of about 30,000 to 40,000 feet.
We're talking about 60 kilowatts per square meter.
Now, is it any wonder that, according to the Environmental Protection Agency, according to one of their studies that they ran on this project, on the impact, the terrestrial impact of the microwave beam of this intensity,
they did state quite flatly, I have the document right before me at this instant, that an aircraft passing through the beam at a height of 30 to 40,000 foot altitude, passing through 60 kilowatts per square meter, would cause the passengers aboard to be flash roasted alive like a dinner puff in your microwave.
So, you know, there is a good side to this, but I have a million questions.
For example, what effect now it will burn through a microwave its way through all levels of the atmosphere, from space right on down to the very bottom to Earth.
Right, and you're going to be in big time trouble once the satellite isn't operational.
Yes, because it's been established by the EPA, by their own studies, that the terrestrial radio television communications within a 3,000 square mile radius of the rectiness site will be affected.
They'll be impacted perhaps severely.
Stations will go off the air.
Yes.
And the way to get around that, according to their proposal, is a system of time schedules be arranged where stations will be allotted a certain amount of time in that radius to broadcast.
The rest of the time, which will be most of the 24-hour period, no broadcast will be possible.
Now, this is pretty severe for...
Well, sir, this is government.
This is federal government.
And as you well know, the Federal Communications Commission is part of our government, and they are the folks that are responsible for these restrictions.
And of course, they're going to be playing ball with the project.
Yes, we're talking about heating up the ionosphere.
And what will happen specifically, this is a little on technical side, but it's right up your alley here, is that these microwave heating effects of the ionosphere will result in losses, fading, and scintillation of all telecommunications electromagnetic signals.
It means that our weather systems, which as you know, they're formed in the troposphere as well as in the oceans, above the oceans, the water vapor there, create a lot of our weather.
But our weather ends up in the troposphere.
That's where our clouds form, that rain down on us.
That's where the winds form, the jet streams within the troposphere.
Now, what that means precisely for us, for us mere mortals who live on the surface, is we can expect during the operation of a microwave-powered satellite from space, when that beam is in operation, and they're talking about a 24-hour basis basically to be operating 24 hours a day,
365 days a year, there will be a buildup of heat in the localized region around the beam that will cause, according to my readings of the EPA studies, it will cause severe weather changes.
As if we need anything more from what we've been experiencing.
I would say, Mr. Bellett, there's a strong possibility this is the case in Alaska.
I will tell you this.
This is a certainty.
This is a recorded fact.
This can be checked.
In 1983, that long ago, the Paris Arecibo, that's Arecibo, the Radio Telescope Observatory in Arecibo, Puerto Rico, which is the site of the largest radio telescope in the world.
They made use of that optical, the instrument itself, to broadcast a high-frequency, high-intensity radio Beam to the ionosphere to heat it in the first of a series of tests by the government to determine the aspects, the impact of a solar power satellite microwave beam on the ionosphere.
Now, the Arecibo test was run at 100th the power of the most minimal setting power level of the solar power satellite.
However, it did impact the ionosphere to such an extent where, yes, it did interfere with localized telecommunications broadcasts.
Now, what Dr. Begich is talking about with the HARP project, it is very similar to what was done in 1983 at Arecibo, Puerto Rico.
And only I understand because of the lapse of years that the radio frequency technology has increased.
It has been developed to a greater degree than it was in 83 with the radio telescope there.
And they may be achieving far higher power levels than they did at Arecibo.
If that's the case, then I would say for sure it sounds like it is in conjunction with TESS for the Solar Power Satellite Project.
David, last night, I don't know if you got a chance to listen, late in the show, we began early talking about the man at San Francisco General whose immune system has been destroyed.
It is being replaced with a baboon in ejection of baboon white cells that would then grow into a baboon immune system for this human being.
And baboons are immune to AIDS.
Now, the scientists on ABC that were quoted on ABC last night began to say after the fact, thank you very much, that, well, yes, this could be a slight wiper or there could be a danger that there would be something released to humanity that would affect all of humanity.
And I kind of sat there saying, hey, you know, somebody could have asked us before they went ahead with this.
I mean, what if this should, what if it does go wrong?
Yes, they are just pressing with it, going ahead with it.
And do you know why?
Money.
Money.
Money is involved.
In the case of the solar-powered satellite project in HARP, I really don't know what's involved as far as finances with HARP.
But in the Solar Powered Satellite Project, we're talking about billions of dollars.
And who is receiving these billions of dollars from the federal government?
Of course, the contractors.
It's money.
And the defense industry lobby, the U.S. Defense Department, is in on the SPS solar satellite project.
And it's money.
Money makes the world go round.
Money is what's responsible, you know, partly for the pressing of these projects on us, on the public, whether we want them or not, because these decisions, let's face it, they're made on higher levels than we're living on.
Okay, but what we're talking about here is something that may easily affect all of mankind.
In other words, even broadcasting, long distance broadcasting, ham radio broadcasting, commercial broadcasting disappears in effect, or, worse yet, the weather changes, and we've already got a lot of suspicious activity going on with the weather right now.
Could very well be the we do not know until we can eventually, I imagine, we may have access to the HARP files, these solar power satellite files, eventually, maybe, in 50 years from now.
But in the meantime, we will have to put up with these projects as far as I can see for the time being.
They are set, they are in progress, they are funded, they are going through.
And all we can do is try to learn as much as we can about them in order to protect ourselves and our families in the event of a malfunction.
What one has to visualize is this intense microwave beam coming down to Earth, one that would fry people like a microwave oven if they were to fly through it in an airplane.
This is a subject that's very dear to me, one that I did investigate thoroughly for some stroke the book, and one, a subject which the proposal by the Defense Department and the Energy Department and NASA has not answered to my satisfaction.
Let's talk about just how safe a solar power satellite would be in orbit above us.
Well, the Energy Department claims that the solar power satellite has an inherently fail-safe system that, in an emergency, will automatically defocus the microwave power beam to a harmless level.
And they call it a fail-safe system.
Now, I know for a fact that you've seen the classic movie called Fail-Safe.
And you'll understand why I shudder whenever I hear the term fail-safe.
It usually means just the opposite.
But very briefly, let's look at the satellite's fail-safe system.
I'll be a little technical.
I hope your listeners can bear with me.
I will explain it in as simple terms as I can.
The Energy Department says that each of these 157,000 klystron tubes within the satellite's microwave transmitter space, these klystron tubes will be phased or, that means properly adjusted, to provide a uniform power beam and to enable the beam to be aimed, to be directed at that rectenna.
Now, they claim that each klystron, each individual klystron tube, will be automatically adjusted to a high-frequency pilot signal which will be continuously broadcast to the satellite by a ground-based radio transmitter installed in the rectenna, the receiving antenna on the ground.
Now, they say if the satellite begins to wander for some reason, the thrusters don't work, they say if this occurs, this pilot signal will be lost and the klystrones will to a harmless power level.
The solar power satellite is just too huge, too complex for the so-called fail-safe system to work.
Now, what if an object in space, say a large meteoroid or a man-made object, collides with the solar power satellite, causes it to drift, while at the same time knocks the fail-safe devices out of whack?
Then what?
Well, I can assure you, people will die.
That's what will happen.
And the land and water, the oceans, they'll all be devastated by intense heat.
This is in sunstroke.
This is the crux of the book.
This breakdown of the so-called fail-safe system occurs in sunstroke.
And this is what makes the book a thriller.
This is what causes people to die in the book again and again when the solar power satellite goes out of control and aims its microwave beam down at the Earth at random.
People, of course, aircraft, vessels, they get caught in this beam from time to time.
And of course, everybody aboard these craft dies horribly.
This may be utterly and totally unrelated, but let me try it out on you.
We have a real phenomenon going on all over the world, this thing called crop circles.
Yes, yes, yes, it is something.
And despite the fact that Doug and Dave admitted having a chain in a board and faking some of them in England, they're occurring all over the world.
And the analysis done on the wheat in these crop circles shows that there is a molecular change that can only be duplicated in the laboratory by microwaving.
You can actually take wheat, break it off, microwave it, put it in a microwave oven, cook it, and you get similar molecular changes as what they find in these crop circles.
Now, that leads to an obvious question about somebody with some sort of satellite up there.
Yes, I'm so glad you brought this subject up, Mr. Bell.
If you remember, of course, Sunstroke, the novel, the first chapter, begins with a crop field that is devastated by the microwave beam.
And yes, I do firmly believe that tests of a solar power satellite concept that have been going on these last few years by the United States, by Japan, by Russia, and by France in space, orbital tests, may very well be responsible for these crop circles since these crop circles have mysteriously appeared and are in great profusion just during this last decade.
So it occurred to me that, gee whiz, folks, maybe they're up there with satellites.
The only thing is, everybody's got to know the even well-intended satellite energy system would not be the only obvious use for the ability to cook the ground or water or people or anything below it.
A limited space-to-ground test was conducted in April 1993, January 1994, and just last May, these tests involved a small, very small solar-powered satellite code named Spartan, which weighs 2,800 pounds.
It's about the size of a very large air conditioner unit.
Now these tests are classified.
This has been going on, and the uh as I say, the uh the satellite, the small test satellite code named Spartan, and the uh the current plans that are going now on the draw drawing boards of the Defense Department call for the construction of a large solar power satellite, which will be built alongside the new space station, which is about to get underway.
This is how it will be done.
A space station will be built in orbit on time.
It will be ready and online in the year 2002.
It will be done.
At that time, components for a large solar-powered satellite will be hoisted into low orbit, constructed by astronauts, and lofted into a higher orbit for some very serious space-to-earth tests.
Now, by a large satellite, what I mean is 10 megawatts of microwave energy will be produced by the satellite, which is enough to power about 10,000 homes on Earth.
This is the power outage that they're talking about.
And that, as I did mention, tests of this system, various pieces, various portions, have been going on for 11 years.
For instance, the April 93 test of the Spartan, it involved not only the Spartan satellite, which generated the microwave beam in space, but it involved a 30-centimeter diameter target satellite, which is attached to the Spartan by a tether.
Now, this target satellite acted as a rectenna in space, and it did supply a certain amount of electricity directly to the space station.
It's a novel, science fiction, I'm sorry to say, based on science reality.
The proposed alternative energy idea prepared by NASA and the Department of Energy, one they are planning apparently to deploy.
This giant collector of energy in space that would be miles in size, collect energy directly from the sun 24 hours a day, converting it to microwave energy and beaming it back to Earth.
Now, sounds like a good idea, the output of five nuclear generators.
So you begin to pick it apart a little bit.
And of course, NASA and everybody's saying nothing can go wrong.
Nothing can go wrong.
David Kagan has been in the aerospace industry now for years and years.
We'll get to his qualifications again next hour, but he's well qualified to be speaking on the subject he's speaking to us about.
And we're touching on HAARP.
touching on a lot.
you All right, what happens to an airplane that goes off course and flies into this beam?
Of course, we covered that in the last hour.
Instant incineration.
And what about birds?
Also, if the direction of the beam is accidentally shifted to Perump, Nevada, you won't need to worry about amplitude modulation reception.
This is not funny, Art.
And then Art sent me a second facts and said, hey, you stole my questions.
Well, Art, I just now got your facts.
It's not here.
It's in the other room.
So I did not steal your questions, Art.
They are the obvious.
The one you do add, though, is about birds.
And while you might restrict airspace, certainly, for airplanes to ensure passengers are not cooked like a TV dinner flying through this proposed beam, what about birds, David?
Unfortunately, very unfortunately, I might add, we can probably expect to be losing many dozens of species of different birds that are inadvertently caught in the microwave beam from space.
It would increase in intensity to become a rapid beating in your head, leading to what basically, according to these findings, now I certainly hope human test subjects were not used.
However, the clicking would lead to an intense pounding in the head, which would be something like an intense sinus headache or a migraine.
And then this would lead to eye cataracts almost instantaneously.
You would be blinded by these microwaves flooding from space.
And then you would experience extremely quickly a rapid heating of the vital organs of your body.
So, yes, the microwave beam from space could be used as a devastating terrestrial weapon.
If you can picture this, the microwave beam diameter at the Earth's surface would be approximately 8 miles in diameter, the diameter of the rectenna, as a matter of fact.
This is no mere coincidence.
If you can picture the satellite microwave beam strafing a city, 8 miles in diameter, this beam would be traveling, affecting a region that size, people caught in the beam would experience the symptoms I just described within 30 seconds.
They would die.
And naturally, this would be an extremely efficient weapon against population centers.
Well, I will tell you that just prior to Sunstroke's publication date for the first edition, which was February 1993, just two weeks before the official publication date, the senior editor of the Putnam Berkeley group, Mr. John Talbot, who incidentally is the man who edited Sunstroke, this Sunstroke is his baby.
Now he called me that day to say that Dr. Peter Glazer, who is the man who first proposed the solar power satellite project and the company he's affiliated with, which is the Arthur D. Little Company, a Cambridge think tank.
Now, Senior Editor John Talbot called me to say that Dr. Glazier and Arthur D. Little had contacted Berkeley, my publisher, directly, and that they're trying to suppress the publication of the book of Sunstroke.
Now, Dr. Glazier and Arthur D. Little's attorneys threatened lawsuits against the Putnam Berkeley group and myself.
In other words, if the public realizes what could happen with this and they get wind of it and they decide they don't want it and put on pressure, funding might dry up.
He was in town, from what he told me, he was in town to meet with the director of the Arizona Film Commission to help out with some shootings, some local shootings for Understage 2.
And he stopped by the store.
It was nearby.
It was convenient.
And he saw the book signing going on, thought he'd better check it out.
He did.
And he really loved the book.
Got a hold of my agent last summer.
And he wanted to buy the motion picture rights.
And since then, I have written a scene-by-scene breakdown of sunstroke for a film, for him.
This is called The Treatment for a Screenplay.
And as I say, it's a scene-by-scene breakdown according to the book and within the somewhat limited framework of even a major Hollywood production.
It's a realistic, practical telling of Sunstroke to the film medium.
Yes, it can be considered along the lines of Star Wars.
However, it goes far beyond the simple primitive Star Wars concept in that one satellite could completely wipe out an enemy nation's communications facilities.
Could a single satellite of the type we're talking about be a true dual-purpose or even tri-purpose satellite?
In other words, provide energy when needed and then be focused as a weapon should it be needed and perhaps be used as part of a Star Wars strategy if it is needed.
Yes, the answer to that question, of course, is yes.
The solar power satellite can fulfill all of those functions simultaneously to a certain extent.
If we consider the power being from space would be supplying the U.S. energy grid with electricity, and yes, in the event that, say, for instance, a third world dictator, another one emerges and causes a global hotspot, well, the solar-powered satellite could either be de-orbited to make it even hotter quickly.
If the satellite is geostationary over a receiving site on the ground, it cannot be in sunlight 24 hours a day because the Earth and the receiving site turn.
Very briefly, a satellite in geosynchronous orbit, whether it's a gigantic solar-powered satellite or whether it's an RCA concept communication satellite, when it's in geosynchronous fixed orbit, is exposed to sunlight 24 hours a day.
There's no question about it, but it's a simple fact that these satellites are located above the equator of South America, in that region.
What you're talking about, which is 22,300 miles above that area, they are exposed to sunlight 24 hours a day, regardless of ground conditions, whether it's night or day on Earth.
It makes no difference.
These satellites are constantly exposed to sunlight, as you mentioned at the beginning of the program.
Because such a satellite in geostationary orbit, its speed, its velocity in space precisely matches the orbital speed of the Earth, which is at that altitude 3,580 miles an hour.
These terrestrial-based methods of generating power that you just mentioned are experimental.
They break even point, for instance, for the fusion experiments going on currently in the United States and in Russia has not been achieved yet.
They've come really close.
In other words, they've come really close to matching the amount of energy that's put into the project, that's put into these devices and these reactors, but not quite.
They have not really generated yet energy greater than the input.
So the solar-powered satellite being exposed perpetually to 24 hours a day worth of sunlight, you know, right then and there we see, yeah, it's real practical to have something exposed all the time to sunlight.
There is no night in that area of space that we're talking about, geosync orbit.
There are no clouds.
On occasionally, for instance, today it got cloudy here in Phoenix and not much sun came down.
It was cold.
All of a sudden we went from very warm temperatures, which are abnormally warm I might add.
I'm glad you asked that question, Mr. Bell, because as I mentioned earlier in the show, the solar power satellite microwave beam is basically just radar.
It's souped up, far more intense than normal radar.
Now, I've had the exceptional experience of being at Luke Air Force Base, which is located just about 20 miles from here in Tulson, Arizona.
And Luke maintains an array of ground-based radar units.
Now, at night, in regards to the receiving antenna, the rectenna for a solar power satellite, if you are observing the rectenna area at night, you will see a considerable bluish glow as the air molecules become ionized from the flood of microwaves.
The beam will dissipate the molecules of the clouds, and that gets along, gets back to what we were talking about earlier, about cloud dynamics, the modifying cloud dynamics.
It will dissipate the cloud.
The intensity we're talking about will dissipate the water molecules within the cloud.
And however, you will see in the daylight hours, if it is an overcast day, you will see a breakup of the clouds by the microwave beam.
Now, this is an established fact.
This did occur just during that Aristable Radio Telescope facility test, ionospheric test that was conducted in 1983.
And it probably occurred in Alaska with the HARP project.
There were any ground-based observers that were able to report the fact to the press.
It would have been observed.
Now, as far as we know, microwaves are invisible.
You look at your oven, you turn it on, you don't see anything in there.
But what will be visible in regards to the solar power satellite will be the structure itself in space.
These specular reflections, these are the incident sunlight reflections that will occur just from sunlight in the reflecting off the enormous solar cell arrays.
It will be to such an extent that each one of these ultimate-sized satellites will produce the equivalent in light output to a quarter moon.
Yes, we're talking about 3 miles wide by 6 miles long.
And yes, you will be able to see the solar power satellite project up there.
It will be reflecting the sunlight at night.
During the daytime, it will be as visible as approximately 12 times the magnitude of the planet Venus.
Now, I personally have seen Venus, the planet Venus, low on the horizon at 4 p.m., 4 p.m., 4 o'clock in the afternoon, in bright sunlight, if you know where to look.
Now, this thing will be 12 times brighter than Venus during the day.
Professor Fred Hoyle, he is the Plumium Professor, Cambridge University in England.
He has written about this subject.
He is against the satellite project because it will interfere with optical astronomy.
And this is a bugaboo.
As Professor Hoyle explained it, there's only about 63 days, 63 nights during the year that astronomers are able to make decent observations of the skies because of the atmospheric disturbances going on, because of clouds, because of the moon itself.
Now, the satellite is going to cut down on those days.
It's going to be bad for optical astronomy.
Sure, we've got the solar, the Hubble Space Telescope up there, but even it may be impacted by a solar-power satellite in orbit.
From my readings, from my studying of the EPH solar power satellite terrestrial impact, there is a possibility that the microwave beam intensity at full power could possibly break up a hurricane to a certain extent.
What blows me away, David, is that we are proceeding with these projects, whether it's this or whether it's somebody's immune system, and we do it without asking.
And as I did mention, the best thing is for us to arm ourselves with information, with raw data on these projects.
Find out what they are, what's going on at this time with these state-of-the-art and cutting-edge projects that are sometimes beyond our capability to control.
And these projects, in these biological experiments, in the HARP project, in the solar power satellite project, they are basically beyond our control at this time.
They are going on regardless of whether we want them or not.
Our only recourse is during elections, you know, put it to our elected representatives.
If they don't play ball with us, if they don't want to tell us about it, well, then out they go.
Doom Watch very basically recounts a five-day crisis that begins when a top-secret government experiment conducted at a restricted Air Force base, in this case it's Edwards, near Boron, California, it goes awry.
Now let's just talk very briefly about what this experiment is that goes awry.
As you're well aware of, atmospheric scientists at UCLA and UC Irvine, they're exploring the idea and proposing a strategy to the government at this time of injecting into the stratosphere two exotic gases.
These are chemicals based on the propane, ethane, and pentane molecules.
And they're proposing that these exotic gases be released into the atmosphere to combine with the chlorofluorocarbons, which the CFCs, which everybody knows, is stripping away the ozone.
Yes, these exotic gases would combine with the CFCs to produce, supposedly, according to their studies, an extremely weak and environmentally safe solution of hydrochloric acid that would destroy the CFCs up there.
According to their theory, once the CFCs are destroyed, are removed from the upper stratosphere where the ozone molecules are, where the CFCs are attacking them, once the CFCs are destroyed, are brought down to Earth in the form of hydrochloric acid, then the ozone molecules would be free to reproduce themselves very simply up there, and this would boost our ozone glare.
They're planning on launching at least 100 of them all at once over a test area where the ozone has been depleted.
Now, Doomwatch, which is based on this project, the area that they choose to release the gases is near Edwards Air Force Base, which is by Boron, California, where there is, unfortunately, a deterioration of the ozone layer above that region.
And they can release, in the book, they release the jets over that area.
Now, in reality, this project is very controversial because other researchers have calculated that there's a chance, a good one, that the release of these exotic gases could actually backfire and accelerate ozone depletion.
This is what happened in Doomwatch.
In Doomwatch, the KC-135 tanker jets are launched aloft.
They release and discharge the exotic gases into the atmosphere of Boron, California, near Edwards.
Everything seems to go pretty well for a few minutes, but then an uncontrollable chain reaction occurs that produces a lethal acid rain.
The first victims in the book are an old man, 3108 children.
They are caught in the lethal acid rain.
They die very quickly.
However, the crisis escalates to nightmarish proportions when this chain reaction spreads and begins boiling away the rest of the ozone above the United States during a period of violent activity on the sun.
Now, as you know, as all of your listeners know, the ozone layer above us protects us from deadly ultraviolet and other radiations from the sun.
He's written one of my favorite science fiction books of all time.
It's called Sunstroke.
He's got another book coming out shortly called Doom Watch.
Both of them are Worrisomely, based on real projects planned now, underway.
One has a kind of inverse relationship to the HAARP project in Alaska.
It would collect from the sun in space from geosynchronous orbit a platform of solar collectors, literally miles in size, and then translate that energy into microwave and beam it back to Earth.
We've been discussing the implications of this.
The output of that, by the way, would be equivalent to about five nuclear generating plants.
So that gives you an idea of the size of the project.
It would burn its way through various layers of atmosphere with some kind of disconcerting results.
Ruining AM radio, short wave.
It would be light.
It would disturb the astronomers.
And the possibilities for a weapons systems of the military would be absolutely irresistible.
This would be a beam weapon, literally cooking anything below it as you would cook a piece of meat in a microwave oven.
Just one more item, so that you know who you're talking to.
David Kagan has headed the SpectroScan Corporation, a consulting firm specializing in metallurgical testing, analysis of ferrous and non-ferrous alloys, and composite materials.
He is a graduate of Northrop University with a Bachelor of Science degree in metallurgical engineering, has been under contract with the Quality Control Research and Development Department at Northrop.
You know Northrop.
The California-based manufacturer of the stealth P-2 bomber and the MX missile.
Has participated in the non-destructive testing programs for the F-5E and YF-17 jet fighter interceptor projects at Edwards, 75 miles north of Los Angeles, has served as consultant for the Materials Research Group at Rockwell International Space Division in Downey, California, and so forth.
So I wanted you to know who you're talking to.
It is indeed a science fiction novel, Sunstroke.
However, definitely one of my personal favorites.
And it's worth a serious discussion here, unfortunately, because they actually are planning to do it.
So in a moment, we'll take care of a little bit of business.
Back to David Kagan, and we will begin to take your call.
unidentified
Back to David Kagan, and we will begin to take your call.
Ann in Gig Harbor, Washington, says following, Dear Art, with this and so many other scientific projects now being undertaken both secretly and simply quietly out of the public scrutiny, it appears that nobody could put our situation more accurately and succinctly than God did.
He said, remember, he said, quote, gee, I'm quoting God, quote, your wise men will become fools, end quote.
Deerard, please ask David, what would happen if the microwave happened to hit either a civilian nuclear power plant if the beam would hit a power plant?
That would not be good because primarily we're talking about microwaves interfering at a nuclear power plant with all electrical systems within the plant itself.
Now that takes into account the water cooling system for the reactor core itself.
Now as you well know and you've talked about it on your show numerous times regarding to it would boil that away wouldn't it?
Yes.
It would completely boil cooling water away and that would allow the chain reaction within the nuclear core to go critical.
Anybody that's ever put metal in their microwave oven has found out real quickly how long it takes to burn out a klystron tube and overload the power transformer.
Can a large focused beam reflect enough energy back at the source to destroy the satellite?
In other words, presumably you could create or could you not an SWR standing wave so high that the tubes would self-destruct?
And that the in reference to the solar power satellite itself, that yes, the microwave intensity is such an extent, it is so intense at ground level at the proposed reflector we're talking about, that yes, that could occur.
Mr. Bill, it's one of the problems with this Project as viewed by the Defense Department, and this is why they wish to keep the project basically under wraps as best as they can to a certain extent, is because, yes, it would be a target.
And even though the satellite that we're talking about is so large, that yes, an ASAT, an anti-satellite device, could be deployed by an enemy nation against this satellite.
And yes, it could cause it to go awry.
It could cause the satellite to be, how should we say, compromised.
Yeah, you did get a little bit of one of my questions answered, too, because I was wondering if you had some sort of a steered feedback to overload the system.
Of course, I do believe you have a possibility of defeating it temporarily with something like a chaff field like we used against the Germans and maybe some sort of a reflector to help shield you if you're beneath it.
But I was thinking with something as powerful as this, you could defocus it as much as maybe even 100 times and still have enough radiation there to be fatal to people on the ground.
In other words, you could probably cover better than 250 miles square, you know, like something the size of Kansas maybe.
And another thing I was thinking that the way he was talking, maybe we ought to have a 30,000-foot-tall antenna because we'd more than double our efficiency.
To a certain extent, in regards to the second question, the higher the antenna, the less the loss.
However, what we're talking about initially is the solar satellite being used to generate electricity.
Now, in our scenario and in the Defense Department scenario, that yes, the solar satellite would be used most of the time to generate efficient electricity from space.
That in order, that depends, however, the efficiency, let's talk about that.
That is totally dependent on the rectenna, the receiving antenna, being located as close to the ground as possible to counteract any of the inefficient feedback and loss of current that would occur should the rectenna be higher above the ground.
And in regards to using the Chaffee field against the Germans, now the collar is correct in making the proper analysis that the solar power satellite's microwave beam is of such a great intensity that yes,
even if you hit beneath such a field, such a reflector, the beam, the microwaves from the beam would impinge on each other, impinge on all reflective surfaces, and eventually would reach, unfortunately, so even if you were shielded, in other words, directly above you, there would be reflections that would be occurring from every angle.
That's correct.
Absolutely correct.
There's no way of escaping it, basically.
Sure.
If you see, Mr. Bell, if you see a bright, unblinking, fixed light in the night sky above you, just be advised, seek shelter in a basement or cellar.
Do you have any access to information that says, I mean, I have firm suspicions, David, that there are satellites in orbit carrying things that we don't even want to know about.
We don't want to know about and we can't know about, except to a certain extent.
I do have some contacts in aerospace.
I do know what's going on at this time.
And yes, there are a number, a number of blacked-out military payloads that have been locked into orbit over these many years since the space shuttle has been in operation since 1981.
There is a new kind, you might say perverted, space race that's going on at this very moment now.
the United States, as you know, Russia, Japan, and France are all racing each other at this time to be the first to deploy a solar power satellite in space for obvious reasons.
Yes, Japan has been testing point-to-point microwave transmitters in space for several years now, as reported by Professor Hiroshi Matsumoto of the Kyoto University's Radio Atmospheric Science Center near Tokyo, Japan.
These tests that they've been conducted will culminate in a very spectacular experiment next year in which a satellite will be deployed by the Japanese that will be capable of producing 18 megawatts of microwave energy.
Now it's 18,000 watts, which is a tremendous amount of power.
It will be generated in space and beamed to Earth for their own purposes.
Okay, the only other law I know of that comes to play here is one that I've been familiar with ever since I began playing with electronics, and that was written by a guy named Murphy.
However, I will tell you something real interesting.
My brother and I, we own some property near Dateland, Arizona.
Desert property.
We built a house there a while back, and it's in the boondocks.
It's near Dateland, Arizona, which is really, really in the middle of the desert, middle of nowhere.
There are no power lines.
There are no telephone poles.
In order to communicate, you have to go cellular, and even there, sometimes you're out of luck.
Now, in this region, we spent some summers there building a little summer vacation home there.
And at night, at night, we did detect, and I tried photographing it, but it was a little too dim at the time.
There are what's called cosmic ray bursts.
Now, they vary in intensity, and they have come to the attention of NASA very recently because this is a point of contention among NASA physicists.
However, they do agree that these cosmic ray bursts are caused by possibly flare stars, which are outside our solar system.
Stars that occasionally flare up from time to time and produce a great burst of ionizing radiation.
But by the time it reaches our solar system, the Earth, and passes through the atmosphere, all the energy capability it has is ionizing the air molecules in the upper regions of the atmosphere.
It causes sometimes a bright burst of light.
I have seen this myself.
I have brought it to the attention of Luke Air Force Base specialists.
They have confirmed it, that yes, these occur from time to time.
They are usually visible on bright starry nights in the southwest.
You probably may see them yourself one of these nights.
Besides atmospheric re-entries of satellites and certain spacecraft components that do re-enter and disintegrate and produce great bright light, there are these cosmic ray bursts.
They are apparently a natural source of radiation that impacts the Earth's atmosphere and produces these displays on occasion from time to time.
You just have to be out there at the right time.
However, I will say that NASA takes them seriously enough.
They're considering deploying a series of approximately 23 ground-based arrays to detect this radiation.
Some of them may very well be located near where you are, sir, in Perupon, Nevada.
Haven't you ever wondered when the Defense Department announces the launching of a satellite?
A classified mission?
Haven't you ever wondered what it is?
Haven't you ever wondered when the space shuttle missions, those controlled by the military for deployment again, of satellites that do classified jobs, haven't you ever wondered what those jobs are?
We're talking with David Kagan.
He wrote Sunstroke about a real project, actually.
Science fiction, yes, but based on a True Life $19.5 million alternative energy proposal prepared by NASA and the Department of Energy.
I stayed up to call because I was involved in this project in the early 1980s.
Oh?
I work here at the Radio Observatory.
And in the early 1980s, the project was given to us for us to determine what effect it might have on radio astronomy.
And we had several of our staff scientists work on it, and we just came up with a bunch of bag of worms.
And I wasn't involved in the scientific end as much as I was preparing the report.
But one of the biggest concerns that they came up with is that occasionally these satellites, of course, will fall in the Earth's shadow.
And when they are reilluminated by the sun, these klystrons, of course, will heat back up and the frequency stability will be terrible.
So they'll be sweeping this energy over the entire spectrum, as well as the pointing will just randomly be searching around until the search or the pilot frequency comes back up.
So in a sense, the fiction that Mr. Kagan is writing about is actually reality of these things were ever employed, because every time they cool down and then warm up as they go in and out of the Earth's shadow, they'll just randomly be squirting energy all over the place until they find their dipole array again.
Well, one would presume the pilot would, as the scientists say, be fail-safe and would prevent it from fully turning on and focusing until everything was ready.
But do we trust that that would occur?
Thank you very much, caller.
I don't necessarily trust that that will occur.
And I guess, David, my complaint last night is like my complaint tonight.
I wish that the American public could debate these things a little bit, these things that could conceivably affect all of mankind.
Yes, ideally, it would be best if we had a, for instance, a televised forum where representatives of the U.S. government would debate the merits of these black projects with the American public.
But no, that's not the case right now, anyway.
And we'll just have to put up and bear with these projects as they come.
First of all, I'm sure David is aware that these CFC gases, chlorocarbons, are actually much heavier than ambient atmospheric air, and that there is no CFC gases up at altitude.
And in fact, if you take a can of Freon and put some in a balloon, tie the balloon, it will sink to the floor rather than rise as it would if it had helium in it.
So my question has to do with them spraying those gases from the aircraft, ostensibly, or the excuse that they're giving is to go up there and gobble up the CFCs, but there are no CFCs up there damaging the ozone.
Well, unfortunately, there's too much that's been documented on chlorofluorocarbons and their presence for these last 100 years, their presence up in the stratosphere, and their interaction with ozone molecules has been greatly documented by the government,
by NASA, by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and by the European ozone stratospheric experiment that was conducted two years ago.
Yes, one of the stated purposes of HAARP, the project in Alaska, another black project the government has underway, is the actual altering of the ionosphere.
The intensities involved would cause the atmospheric gases to be ionized.
That is, it would strip away electrons from the atoms themselves composing our atmosphere, causing them to become charged and turn them into a hot gas, which is the classic definition of a plasma.
At this point in time, we're still talking about tests, both small-scale leading up to large-scale.
Now, the large-scale test, as I mentioned about earlier in the program, will involve basically a solar power microwave satellite that can generate up to 10,000 kilowatts of power to a point on the Earth, which is equivalent to 1,000 homes.
If I were a betting man, I would bet that HAARP would be a project to determine exactly what effects the heating of the ionosphere would have without having to go to space and fire something this direction.
Instead, fire it from Earth into the ionosphere, having roughly the same effect on the ionosphere.
And from that, they would then say, well, yeah, we go ahead or we don't go ahead with the reverse process.
As I mentioned earlier, I strongly believe that HARP is based on the Arecebo Radio Telescope Observatory tests that were conducted in 1983 at Arecebo, Puerto Rico.
I do not object to scientific progress, whether it's baboon white cells in a human or it's satellites bringing power down from the sun.
I mean, I'm a progressive person.
I even love everything connected about this kind of thing.
But I just have this nagging, horrible feeling that they are totally oblivious to the fact that we all live on this planet, and one of these things, if not thought out, could cook our butts.
As soon as everyone returns from holiday vacations, which will be the first part of this year, 1996, the coming year, January, I will be meeting with Mr. Martin Wiley, the executive producer, and a hot shot scriptwriter he's bringing in.
We will be hammering out the actual screenplay for the motion picture, and then production will begin.
His book, Sunstroke, I read it years ago, and then suddenly got a letter from him.
I went, wow.
So I thought we would do that this evening based on real technology that you just know they're messing around with up there now.
You just know it.
All right, we're going to break here at the top of the hour.
The only other thing I would like to add is, along with all your other Christmas shopping ideas, I would like you to include, if you would, a copy of my book, which is now selling like crazy.
We're probably two-thirds now of the way through the second printing.
There may not even be a third.
I'm not sure yet.
It is not going to be in paperback.
It is not going to be in bookstores.
And it is going to be pretty rare.
It's called The Art of Talk.
It is a compilation of 11 years of behind-the-scenes talk radio and the most blatantly honest look at myself and my life and what I've done and what's happened behind the scenes that anybody has ever written.
It has ticked off more people than I can count.
If you would like a copy of it for Christmas, they can get it to you that quick.
We'll be right back.
unidentified
You'll distinguish Arkbell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 15, 1995.
Coast to Coast AM from December
Coast to Coast AM from December 15, 1995.
15, 1995.
Coast to Coast AM from December 15, 1995.
Your distinguished art bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an Encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 15th, 1995.
Actually, nothing has moved, landed in Tuzla for two days now, forecast more of the same.
There is a system keeping low clouds, fog, whatever you want to call it, down to ground level, and no airplanes can even see the airport there.
So the word is, what the military always has, hurry up and wait.
All over Europe, men and equipment bottle up and wait.
The alternatives, if this weather continues, are not good.
Fly into Sarajevo, then drive 900 to 1,000 miles into Tuzla.
Not good.
I'd rather wait for the weather.
Brokaw, Tom, is also stuck at Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany, and he has been on the aircraft going in, one of the first aircraft going into Tuzla.
And he's not been able to get in either.
So the nightly report from Mr. Brokaw is coming from Germany.
The budget.
Talks turned ugly, broke off.
Government begins partial shutdown or did so at midnight tonight, today.
It's not going to be a big deal until Monday.
Republicans accuse the president of using phony economic assumptions in his proposal.
President says the Republicans' budget is just all wrong.
Anyway, they'll begin to lay off the non-essential, or is it non-emergency workers?
I really like non-emergency myself because the clear implication is that when they get the budget straightened out and they bring the workers back, the emergency resumes.
I can't get away from that.
Anyway, if they get laid off, I think it's just going to be a big Christmas present for them because, as you recall, they get paid.
Working or not, they get paid.
Now, when you get laid off, how many of you get paid?
I got laid off once from IT ⁇ T, and I recall very well they didn't pay me.
So a little extra Christmas time off with pay might not sound so bad to government workers, I am sure.
Bad news on the drug war, and this, oh, this is really awful news.
I mean, really awful.
Try and imagine this.
I think it's every three years we do a big survey.
University of Michigan does it.
And this is the third survey in a row.
Smoking and drug use are way up among teenagers.
Now, when I say way up, listen to the numbers.
One in three high school seniors smoke cigarettes.
It's up 20% since 1991.
658,000 eighth graders smoke cigarettes, up 33% since 1991.
50%, or one of every two students, all students, now admit using illegal or illicit drugs of some sort before finishing high school.
Now, that's the good news.
Here comes the bad news.
Marijuana use is up 58% since 1991.
Now, I said 58%.
544,000 eighth graders admit to using marijuana now.
Since last surveyed, that is an increase of 158%.
Holy mackerel.
Now, in the 80s, we had a sharp decline in drug use among young people.
It is now up, not just marginally up, not just a little bit up, but it is up alarmingly.
It is up at absolutely epidemic levels.
Very perplexing indeed.
Could it be related to the quickening or something like that?
I don't know.
But it is indeed quite perplexing.
Whitewater.
The 9 o'clock in the morning deadline came and went, and nobody from the White House turned over a blessed thing.
So the Whitewater committee quickly voted to fight, in other words, to fight the White House.
The full Senate will likely follow in voting.
And then we have big trouble.
It'll go straight to the courts, and we will have a constitutional crisis as we had during Watergate.
So there you are.
That's where Whitewater is, and surely it is going to the courts.
Surely, as in Whitewater, it will be delayed until after the election, and then I'm sure, just like Whitewater, it will begin breaking day by day by day.
The Army investigating its ranks for Nazis, white supremacists, skinheads.
They are finding connections between the Army and members of militia at Fort Carson, Colorado, Fort Bragg, North Carolina, Fort Benning, Georgia, Fort Devons, Massachusetts.
That's kind of worrisome, too, huh?
And then there was yesterday's story that you may still wish to comment on because it sure has not left me.
It involves the poor 38-year-old man who received the baboon white cells.
They completely, he's got AIDS and he's dying and it's awful.
And so they destroyed with radiation his entire immune system, what was left of it, gone now.
And they injected him with white cells from a baboon.
The hope is the baboon white cells will multiply and create, literally, a new immune system inside the human being, a baboon one, one that can fight and will fight AIDS.
Now, he would remain HIV positive, just wouldn't get AIDS.
Interesting, interesting media observation.
During the program, yesterday morning, ABC News ran, and I confirmed, so that I'm not called crazy, by going to call after call after call after call, that there were a number of scientists, medical people, who said this, yes, does represent a threat or a possible threat to all of mankind.
Now, that definitely aired last night, I guarantee.
But today, the only news about this man was that he is doing well and his condition is reasonable and they will not know for several months what is going to happen here.
And that is the only news.
Were there any scientists interviewed by anybody who said anything at all about what we heard last night?
No.
It's like the curtain came down on that part of the news.
It is one of the most interesting aspects of the American media that I think I have observed in all my years, and that is that somehow a piece of news can come out, and even if it is absolutely true, the next day it's gone, just like that.
Just like it evaporated into thin air.
This from Rose in Mesa, Arizona.
Art, regarding babooned human bone marrow transplant, yes, Art, you're right about funny little feeling in the back of your head.
I doubt if many animal rights groups will take this on since they tend to object to animals in research on moral and ethical grounds.
Few have the guts to object on medical grounds.
They said animal research hurts animals.
Unfortunately, it also maims and kills humans in many instances.
The Salk polio vaccine was derived from monkey kidney tissue.
Later on, Sabin produced a live weakened polio vaccine, also derived from monkey kidney tissue.
It was an unfortunate choice since monkeys are known to harbor more than 60 viruses, some of them dangerous to humans.
The SV40 virus from monkey kidney cells has been detected in patients who died of brain cancer.
One of the herpes viruses is an inconvenience to monkeys, but fatal to man.
Some scientists fear that a virus originally found in monkey kidney tissue might be linked to multiple sclerosis.
I won't bore you at this time with the lengthy list of medicines and procedures that have been discovered without animal research.
Animal research retards true science by giving misleading results.
So there you are.
And the part of the story now, well, there were two things that bugged me.
One, if there really was a risk to all of mankind, nobody bothered to ask us.
Nobody allowed us to debate it.
Perhaps they consider that we are not sufficiently well-informed to engage in a debate that nevertheless involves our possible future.
That's point one that bothers me.
The second point is that the story, as it broke yesterday morning, quickly sort of evaporated and became nothing more than a condition report on the man during the main news today.
Only in America.
Now, I think we are ready.
Let us begin.
Open line talk radio.
Anything that's on your mind is fair game.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hello, Art.
Hello.
This is the Art Bell for President Campaign Headquarters in Oklahoma City.
My staff that we've put together for you is we realize that there is a possibility that you can save America from your talk show.
I'm convinced that if America is spared from going down the drain like all other great nations, it'll be the conservative talk show host that saves this country.
If you think I can do a good job from here, leave me alone.
I like what I'm doing.
I don't want to be a victim of the Peter principle, which, as you know, says people will eventually be elevated to a position for which they are not qualified.
unidentified
Well, nevertheless, staff is evaluating whether to try to get you the Republican nomination or run you as an independent, and we'll let you know.
What did you think of my slogan for the campaign I sent you two, three weeks ago?
I won't give you that last word, so don't believe me, but it went, don't re-elect that bleep for me.
It just sounds like you're in a concert hall or something.
unidentified
No, I'm not singing tonight.
I'm doing a lot of listening.
But this, I wanted to relate a little story.
The interview you did with David Keegan was very interesting to me because of an incident that happened on November the 12th while I was visiting La Habra, California.
And I was watching a movie in the evening and it was interrupted rather unprofessionally with an unedited news slip.
And the news slip had to do with an announcer reporting an orbital laser firing over Santa Barbara, California, setting forest fires.
And it had shown it was high altitude photography and it was on, it was not still, it was live action and it was a newscaster.
And it set about 12 or say 8 to 10 fires around Santa Barbara.
And I thought, well, this is slipped out of place and they would rerun it at least at the proper interval when the commercials came on.
Well, let me tell you something about news coverage.
One thing that occurs, and one way these stories occur, these wild stories, for example, there was a night when they reported an 8.5 earthquake.
It was reported on Reuters, AP Audio, and Wire Service.
It was reported on all kinds of mainstream press.
Zillions of people called in, said they heard it.
You know what?
It was wrong.
There was no 8.5 earthquake.
There was an 8.0 the following week in the same area, coincidentally.
But there was no 8.5 earthquake.
They got it wrong.
They just flat out got it wrong.
And maybe through packed journalism, by following each other, i have no idea but they had it wrong and they reported it that way for the balance of the night and then the next day they just when they figured out that it was wrong they dropped it you never heard another word about it well that makes art bell who notices things like 8.5 earthquakes look like a fool because i began to discuss it well the next day there was no word about
it not one word not we had previously recorded an 8.5 earthquake actually it was 6.4 or whatever it was and we had reported that in error did they say anything like that no they got it wrong and when they realized they were wrong they simply stopped reporting it so that accounts for some of the disappearing stories not all but some they know damn well
they've got it wrong but do they do they apologize do they run a retraction do they run a follow-up no they just simply stop reporting it and you're left out there twisting slowly in the wind you're listening to art bell somewhere in time tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast a.m. from december 15th 1995.
unidentified
Get back, don't look back, I love you You're doing what we found,
yeah You're doing what we
found, yeah Tonight, tonight we're gonna make it happen Tonight we'll put all of our things aside Give in this time and show me some affection Tonight we're gonna make it happen
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from December 15th, 1995.
It better be a lie, but it looks like the real thing.
I guess I'm going to have to find out.
I'm going to read you this facts.
It's from Mike Miller, who says he's my KABC board up.
Down in Los Angeles.
Reference.
The KABC KMPC Christmas party.
Now, he says, all the brass was here.
Great Hollywood party, blah, blah, blah.
All the higher-ups in programming wished you were here.
Stop.
It's like a telegram, huh?
Then he goes on to say, Shannon Dougherty was distraught over your absence.
This had better not be true.
This had better not be true.
If Shannon Dougherty was distraught at my not being there, I am destroyed at not being there.
So all I can say is this had better be some kind of bored-op kind of joke.
That would kill me.
That would kill me.
That would do me in.
An opportunity to have gone, let's see, to a Hollywood party, mixed it up with the execs at KMPC and KBC, and, but more importantly, to have met Shannon Dougherty in person.
I mean, person could be suicidal over something like that.
Art the quickening will continue to gather momentum as human kind continues to break the laws of nature.
Humans are the only living things that allow their weak to survive.
Boy, you know that's true.
Human beings are the only things that allow their weak to survive.
But you can turn that around and suggest we are the only ones with the power and the intellect to decide to allow our weak to survive.
The other point may be more powerful, but it's hard to contemplate.
It's very interesting.
That's from Paul, listening to KFAB in Omaha.
But this first one.
This KAB, I won't be able to take it.
It's going to ruin the rest of my weekend if this is a true story.
So I have to find out.
Would the board op at KABC, if it is who I think it is, please call my network and leave a hot number, a hotline number, so I can call you up on the air and find out and grind you down and find out if this is really true.
Oh, mind you, after I heard it, and I would just like to be asked about this sort of thing.
And I have a feeling that between last night's program and this morning's program, David Kagan, that they are doing all kinds of things in the medical and scientific community that are beginning to border on earth-changing or mankind-changing slate-wiping kind of events or possibilities without asking us whether or not we think it's a good idea.
unidentified
Tonight was another good example of that.
You know, for six months, we debated this.
Once a month, we have what we call a medical ethics.
And the nursing school, the School of Medicine, everyone's available to come and ask questions.
We have a guest speaker.
And we debated this for six months.
The FDA approved this six months ago.
But at that time, we thought, there is, and I don't know the probability, but there is a chance that there is a virulent strain that could come from this that we don't know of yet to the general public.
And that was the debate is shouldn't general public be in on this debate, not just the medical community.
But you see, you say that was a moral debate, huh?
Well, you say that it was settled by the money argument.
The moral debate was settled by the money argument.
Should we inform the public of what we're about to do here or the dangers of what we're about to do here?
There's an awful lot going on they're not telling us about.
I don't like it.
Cold War is over, sort of.
And we should try and figure out a way to get more honesty, more openness from government, particularly when something is not absolutely locked up into national security.
All right?
Medical experiments, the AIDS virus, and I'm all for fighting it.
It's a horrible disease.
Or energy to replace the forms of energy we have now, which we've got to work on.
All of these things, I am not against them.
I simply want to be informed about them.
Is that a reasonable position to take?
I'm not against them necessarily.
I simply want to understand them and have a chance to consider it and talk with all of you about it and have it laid out and so that we understand.
Well, this is, they showed clips of it earlier this evening, and the spaceships are supposedly huge, and there's nine of them that hover over major populated cities throughout the world and take over.
So it looks completely fascinating, and I didn't get the release date on it, but looks like something we'll be interested in seeing here in the future.
Look, we're possibly dealing with a manufactured biological entity or an alien or something that is supposedly from someplace else.
So, you know, if, let's say that the alien autopsy, and I've seen it, they'd opened it up and there had been lungs and kidneys and livers, and then what would have people said?
They'd have said, oh, come on, it's human.
Can't you see the organs?
unidentified
Yeah, but I was...
I mean, I didn't see it because I was more of a critic of it because...
how can you be a good critic of it without seeing it i guess you can't but Take a look at it, borrow it from a friend, watch it, and then call back.
Sorry for the soup analogy.
I could not resist.
Wild Carline, you're on the air.
unidentified
Yes, I have a request of all of the folks out there that consider themselves conservatives, would like a good opportunity to vote for a conservative for president next November, but are not registered in the Republican Party.
Please register Republican.
You can go back to whatever you're doing after the primaries in your state, but please vote for a conservative in the primary so we can get something besides a Bob Dole running against something like a Bill Clinton.
And matter of fact, our forces are bottlenecking now in Germany, Hungary, just waiting for the weather to clear.
If it doesn't, then they're really going to go through hell.
And hell means landing in Sarajevo and then trying to make it to Tuzla and that area by ground, about a thousand miles, through snow and slush and freezing cold and bad, bad idea.
I vote for waiting for the weather to clear.
I mean, the peace, after all, if it is a real peace, should hold, shouldn't it?
East of the Rockies, you're on the air, huh?
unidentified
Hey, this is Mike from the K-How Control Room in Denver.
But I'm just saying, you know, I've never accidentally peed on the toilet seat and, you know, gone whoops the next morning when I woke up and realized what happened.
I've never, ever forgotten to put the toilet seat up, you know?
But you know you need to make a trip fairly urgently and yet you're asleep and you're asleep and you don't want to do it and then finally you sort of do it and I suppose it could occur that a person.