Art Bell

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Dec. 10, 1995 - Art Bell

01:36:51

Dreamland with Art Bell - Linda Moulton Howe - Ingo Swann - NASA Scientist & Energy - Dr. Brian O' Leary

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20:07

dr brian oleary

56:50

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linda moulton howe

03:06

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not matched, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
		This is Dreamland.
		It absolutely is.
		Good evening, everybody.
		Another Sunday evening.
		Another Dreamland underway.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Got an interesting show planned for you this evening.
		Linda Howe, an investigative journalist, an Emmy Award-winning investigative journalist, used to produce TV documentaries and sort of investigated her way into the world of crop circles and animal mutilations.
		I am, you know, it's kind of a, it's a funny thing.
		I got a fact tonight regarding the very person that she's going to be interviewing, Angel Swan.
		And I'll read the portion of that here in a moment.
		It is a small world.
		So Linda's coming up from Philadelphia, followed by scientist-astronaut Ryan O'Leary.
		He'll be here from Maui, Hawaii.
		And I have good, very fond memories of Maui, where I once lived.
		For about six months.
		And so that's on tap for this evening.
		A couple of notes.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Just that remote viewing is only 15% reliable.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I think the phone reply to the media this past week.
unidentified		Nobody knows the real story of remote viewing.
		The media has no idea what remote viewing is.
		The American public certainly has no idea.
		And so they're all getting off on this.
		Ha ha, look at the government spending, wasting money on psychic research.
		Well, it wasn't psychic research.
		It was threat analysis of this kind of spend money by the Soviet Union.
		And it was imperative at the time that that threat analysis be undertaken.
		Everybody improved it from Congressman.
		Congress for regularly took many years.
		The progress of our projects and everything.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		But from your point of view, how strong and reliable was remote viewing during those Cold War years?
unidentified		We had to aim for 65% in order to be competitive with the other conventional forms of intelligence gathering, and we did achieve that.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		You would achieve 65% accuracy.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
		Or we wouldn't have been a business without.
		Yes, we had to become competitive, or compatible at least with these other conventional forms of intelligence gathering, or we wouldn't have had a penny more.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And if you could be that reliable, then why would there be at this point in the fall of 1995 the kind of release from the Central Intelligence Agency that has just come out and questions this and says it's only 15% reliable?
unidentified		I don't know.
		I don't know.
		I can't, you know, nobody understands the works of the CIA agent.
		No?
		No, I don't think anybody does.
		And I think that the CIA might not understand their workings a lot of the time, too.
		I don't know.
		But I was completely stunned when I sent a copy of that release.
		And I think every other person that was involved with the project show there were easily over 500 to 1,000 people, but totally fluff on steel.
		So, but I don't know.
		I mean, I've never been able to answer all the questions, and I certainly can't answer that, but I think that the real reason will surface here one of these days.
		But in this case, some of the documents from 73, 74, and 75 have been declassified.
		And these are some of the eight martini things that Nora person referred to on the Nightline program.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, could you explain to our Dreamland audience what the Eight Martini is?
unidentified		The Eight Martini, the Eight Martini remote viewing event is one that is so really astonishingly good that it breaks everybody's reality and they have to go out and drink eight martini to recover.
unidentified		That's what it means.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Did you ever have an A T V remote viewing?
unidentified		Oh, yes.
		Can you give an idea?
		Every time I've seen it happen with me or with other people, it's so amazing each time it happens.
		You never get used to it, you know.
		And it just blows your mind.
		And the really good ones just blow you away.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		What would be one of your best?
unidentified		Oh, one of the best ones was probably the one that happened, one of those that happened in 1973, after I said to the project at Ethereum that we would offer remote viewing as foretesting on sponsors, you know.
		So they shipped down a coordinate, and there wasn't big to do about it.
		And it turned out to be, I thought that the coordinate was in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, and I said there's only water here.
		And so Dr. Kutoff, who was working with me, said, well, I mean, he said, well, there must be something around here.
		Look around and see what you can see.
		So further in the haze, I spotted this sort of land sticking out.
		And I said, well, there's a seashore we've got to go over there and look at that.
		So it turned out that this was an island.
		And I said, well, I can call it an island, but that's not enough data to show that this is, you know, that's just an average guess that there would be an island here.
		So we decided that I should draw the contour of the island.
		And we didn't have paper big enough in this locked room we were in, so we had to put a lot of sheets together as I was tracing the shoreline of this island.
		And it's almost a perfect match for the island, which is Corderillan Island in the South Atlantic.
		And then I put some buildings on it and everything, and they had some outhouses which were sort of horse tents, and there was bird doo-doo everywhere, you know, the birds running up this little island.
		So what is on?
		And I said, well, some kind of research came out here.
		But it turned out not only was the contours really recognizable at that island in all respects, but that it happened to be a joint Soviet-French research installation.
		And when the gossip got out that their secret remote or the secret research station had been penetrated by hiking, they protested.
		The French and the Soviets protested to Washington unofficially.
		Yeah, that got into the gossip lines, too, so we were blown away.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, how did they protest in writing to the president?
unidentified		I don't know how they protested, but the phone calls switchboard was lighting up what a fence you've made here.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		But you were that accurate?
unidentified		Well, I mean, you know, if you look at it, you can say 65% very easily.
		That's more, actually.
		And this is before a project got classified even.
		That's been pumped in the public domain.
		So that was the fifth one that really blows away.
		Not only because of the remote viewing and the quality of it, but because of the repercussions and the impact it caused.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		If you were that accurate that two foreign nations would actually respond to Washington.
unidentified		That wasn't a spontaneous thing.
		You didn't call that spontaneous RV.
		It was definitely 65% or more efficient.
		And you know what the result was?
		What?
		We got offered more money.
		Right.
		Right.
		Okay, that's the bottom line, right?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And it kept going on like that for at least 20 years.
unidentified		No, they kept going on like that for, well, for 18 years that I know of, actually.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, isn't there a point where you were remote viewing at least one Soviet submarine and saw something that was like a disc behind it?
unidentified		Yes.
		That was so top secret that way.
		And Howard Blum put it in his book out there.
		Right.
		Right?
		That's how he got a hold of it.
		This blew me away.
		Because I know what the tickets were on that one, you know.
		Yeah.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Did you, personally, I mean, can you feel that this day it was a UFO behind a submarine?
unidentified		Well, if you read Howard Blund's book, you'll see the whole thing.
		He got it all right, except that the table was round to talk square.
		And there was all sorts of crafts sitting there, and Kutoff was on my left, and this Juris Reserve General was on my right, and I was fussing away.
		They gave me the court, and I was fussing away.
		This is one of these big test things that went on, you know, with witnesses.
		And the room was filled.
		And so I was doing my remote viewing, you know, boo-da-doo.
		Right up by the terror crossing thing and I stopped that in my cuts and I looked at that and I oh my god.
		So I whispered over in Hal's ear and I said, Hal, I didn't know what to do.
		I think that somebody shot that UFO and UFO fired on him.
		Well, someone did.
		And poor putoff went as pale as an egg, you know.
		Oh my gosh, he looked at me and he said, whispered back, he said, oh, trying to go, it's your show.
		You do what you think you should do.
		So I just simply can't have this picture of the UFO.
		And this guy sitting on my right hand, he got that in front of me and he says, what paragraph you want?
		And I said, sir, I think it's rather obvious.
		And he took that paper and he stood up.
		And when he stood up, everybody else stood up except me and Putoff.
		And they walked down the room, all of them.
		So Putoff and I went back to the hotel and I said, oh, gosh, we've blown the program.
		So we went out and got drunk on Hargaritas and things like that and went back there.
		He said, all right.
		So two days later, Putoff got a call.
		The call said, okay, how much money do you want?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Did you ever see anything like that disc again in any of the other remote viewing sessions you did?
unidentified		No, but, well, not for the, not then for the sponsors, but, you know, we did a lot of playing around in private work and things like that.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And did you encountered the discs and into this issue of a non-human intelligence?
unidentified		Well, this complicates this particular issue.
unidentified		I'll only say that I know we are not alone in its way.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		So there it is from the master teacher and the inventor of remote viewing that he has a different view on the reliability and the ability for remote viewing to work with other intelligence gathering methods to find some things that they might not have found otherwise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes the flow of my program scares me.
		I don't know how we do it.
		In other words, we'll open up on some topic during the week, and there you will be right on Dreamline.
		That's incredible.
		Absolutely incredible.
		All right, Linda, as usual, we're way short on time.
		So let us have your address, contact number, fax numbers, date of birth, social security number, whatever.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I just thought that this was really important and it was very interesting to hear right from the inventor's map tonight.
		And me, Linda Howell, my address is Post Office Box 538 Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
		The zip code is 19006.
		And I do keep confidences on names for anybody who wants to communicate with me.
		My fax number is Area Code 2154919840.
		And the 800 toll-free number for information about my books and documentaries that have focused on investigations of the animal mutilation, crop circles, the human abduction syndrome, government knowledge, cover-up, all of that.
		The number is 800-707-9993.
		That's 800-707-9993.
		And I always look forward to hearing from our viewers.
		There are some amazing stories out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're still back in your TV days, unless they're staring at the grill at the radio.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Listeners, Dem viewers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there you are.
		All right, Linda, wonderful, a wonderful write-on-the-money report.
		And boy, there's a lot to think about out there.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Linda.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Archie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		That is, of course, Linda Howe.
		And generally, I think she is, she hates me to say this, but she is the leading investigative journalist, we'll put it that way, into crop circles and animal mutilations.
		All right.
		Hawaii and Dr. Ryan O'Leary.
		Doctor, are you there?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm well indeed.
		Thank you.
		I spent six months on Maui.
		It's a beautiful place to live.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
		And I just moved here a few months ago, so I'm just getting acclimated.
		And actually, most of that time I've been on the mainland anyway, going on a tour of my new book.
		So I'm glad to be back here, and glad to be relaxed, and glad to be on a show with an intelligent interviewer for a change.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's very kind of you.
		I take it.
		You've heard the program.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was on Area 2000 a few years ago, so I remember the interview very well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're also able to hear it there in Hawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if you knew that or not, but it's on KHVH.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I didn't know that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		You can hear it right there.
		At any rate, so you were an astronaut, eh?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's not really, that's certainly an impressive credential.
		I was in the astronaut program in 1967 and 68, and that was just, of course, that was during the Apollo program.
		And I was appointed to go to Mars.
		I had just completed my PhD work at Berkeley about Mars, and I was selected as an astronaut to go to Mars, and then I cut it out for the program.
		And when that happened, I was going to say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, before you sort of disavow that, though, you know what I'm interested in?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Well, I disavow it relatively speaking because my whole life has been intensive research over the last 10 to 15 years on the paranormal UFOs, free energy and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, I know.
unidentified		That will fill the bulk of our...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what I want to ask you about is that magic moment, if you can remember back, way back when, when somebody notified you that you were actually going to go to Mars.
		Now, obviously then you thought, hey, I'm going to go to Mars.
		What was that like?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it was exhilarating.
		And it was really quite a process to be selected to.
		Alan Shepard was on the interview committee and he said, would you submit to a hazardous two-year journey to Mars?
		And I kind of hemmed and hawed a little.
		I said, well, I think I would, but I don't know whether my wife would like it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I like that for an answer.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		So then he said, you'd better want to.
		And I said, yes, yes.
		Okay, that's fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you didn't go home and ask your wife first?
unidentified		Well, you see, of course, those were the days of the right stuff.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		I had crew cut.
		I was a fresh PhD from Berkeley.
		And, you know, those were the good old days in Apollo.
		It was a time to be there because NASA in those days had a vision, a purpose, and a goal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about now?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		No, I see a lot of these federal agencies, NASA, the Department of Energy, the DOD, and the CIA and all these secret agencies, as being more and more bureaucratic dinosaurs.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		They really have to do with the realities that are unfolding around us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think happened to our vision, Doctor?
		We did have a vision.
		I mean, Kennedy inspired it.
		We're going to the moon, and then we're going to go to Mars.
		And now, you know, we barely even can get excited about putting up a shuttle.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		It's very sad.
		It's very sad to see the loss of vision.
		And I think it was because basically, well, Kennedy was murdered and it was his vision.
		And so it just kind of floundered.
		It just kind of died.
		Other politicians like Johnson and Spiro Agnew and Richard Nixon tried to stimulate some interest, but by then the peak interest had waned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So many things wrong with our country now, Doctor, that not having a goal, not having a vision, used to unify us as a country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we just, you know, the biggest goal for most people now is to make it to Friday.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		I couldn't agree with you more.
		And that's when I started to get out of my box when I was on the faculty.
		It was interesting, your introduction.
		You said facilities at Cornell, Princeton.
		I was actually in the faculty.
		I was a professor in each of those universities.
		But when I was at Princeton in 1979, I myself had a remote viewing experience.
		I heard the interview with Ingo Swan.
		It was most interesting.
		And it just totally violated my paradigm at that time where I was in the physics department at Princeton being a proper mainstream materialistic physicist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, why don't you tell us about it?
		Are you willing to tell us about that?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Sure, I'll tell you a little bit about it.
		I was sitting opposite a total stranger.
		It was the last day of a training or workshop.
		This one happened to be Life Spring.
		And it was my first experience at trying out some of these exercises to get a person into a state of us and blissful meditation.
		And so that kind of perpped me and got me into a state.
		And I started to, I was sitting on a total stranger who gave me the name of a man, his age, and the fact he was from Mallenton, Pennsylvania.
		And I was supposed to have this person guest.
		Start talking about him.
		This woman, who was the total stranger, knew the man very well.
		So I started describing him, and I said he was a journalist and meteorologist, and he liked to spend a lot of time on Maui and lost his wife by death, all of which happened to be true.
		So at that time, given my worldview at the time, my perspectives, I, well, at first I was exhilarated, but when it was Monday morning and back to work as usual at Princeton, I recalled that my colleagues would love to chatter about claims to the paranormal being pure bunk.
		So I began to realize that, hey, these weren't the folks for me to share this information with.
		And somewhat ironically, right around that time, Robert John, who was the dean of the School of Engineering at Princeton, started his experiments on psychokinesis in the basement of the engineering department.
		And he told me what he was doing, and I didn't tell him what I was doing, but I was stocked to workshop and start to have these different experiences.
		And I started to explore, certainly explore these realms beyond normal materialistic science.
		And that's what really started to open me up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you at all privy, by the way, to any of the results you obtained in that area?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've always been very interested in psychokinesis.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, yes.
		And in fact, you know, that's another thing in your introduction I want to elaborate on a little bit is that I've done a trilogy of books.
		And I call it my new science trilogy.
		And the middle book is called The Second Coming of Science.
		And I devote a whole chapter to the landmark research of Robert John, and that's called J-A-H-N, Robert John and Brenda Dunn and their colleagues at Princeton University.
		And their work basically, well, it started as building up a database on people's influences on random event generators.
		These are electronic boxes that spit out binary numbers, zeros and ones.
		And they're designed to run randomly.
		The zeros and ones are generated like about 100 per second randomly.
		And then an operator goes into the laboratory and attempts to influence the results one way or the other.
		And these are a number of different controlled trials where they would get results.
		And what they found was that virtually everybody that went into the laboratory, you don't have to be an Ingo Swan to do it, it's you and me and anybody else, can actually influence the random event generator and a somewhat repeatable pattern.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To what degree?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		That's personalized, that is matched with the person's own identity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
		To what degree, what is the best they achieve?
		Do you know?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Well, you mean the mind over matter effects are about one part in 5,000, but I can elaborate on that story and talk about filtering techniques to amplify effects to as much as one part in five.
		But at any rate, if you just take the data cumulatively, you find that in the trials where people attempt to influence the results, you do get results.
		And sometimes it's the opposite of intention.
		But the point is it's non-random.
		And so they've been doing these experiments now in Princeton for now 16 years, the same length of time that I've been exploring new science.
		And their results, I think, are very important.
		It provides the database you need from a scientific perspective to establish beyond any reasonable doubt that psychokinesis is real.
		That in other words, we humans can, in fact, virtually all of us, can influence outcomes in the material world.
		And that's a very exciting result.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We can influence outcomes.
		Can we influence material objects?
		In other words, can we actually produce, has anybody documented, I know the Russians have worked heavily on it, physical movement of an object with the power of the mind.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, there have been a lot of experiments on that too.
		I myself haven't attended any of those, but probably the most dramatic demonstrations of that kind of thing that I've seen in my world travels.
		And by the way, my trilogy is based on my world travels photojournalistically.
		I've been around the world many times.
		And Tomas Green Morton in Brazil, I visited him.
		He's written up in The Second Coming of Science.
		And he was able to bend spoons at a distance.
		He was able to materialize perfume from the back of his hand and roll down his fingers to the fingertips and form puddles on the table.
		And there was a case about the eight martini.
		Well, he had a fifth of rum.
		The more that he drank, the more he was able to do, which is kind of the opposite of Sai Baba, who is another very, very talented, he's an Indian Swami that's very well known.
		And I have now visited him privately and personally or with small groups on four occasions now over the last three years.
		And I've seen him manifest many, many things out of thin air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, that leads us down an interesting path.
		The influence of chemicals with regard to attaining some sort of altered state.
		Now, you mentioned alcohol.
		What about the large group of drugs in the LSD family, that sort of hallucinic type thing?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not too familiar with those experiments.
		I know folks like Terence McKenna and others have looked at that.
		But I know that in some instances, it can elevate one's psychic abilities.
		And by psychic abilities, I mean any number of things like psychokinesis, teleportation, remote viewing, and all of these other phenomena that involve the mind-matter interaction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
		That's a brave statement to make.
		A lot of people wouldn't make it.
		Now, would you say these things, and did you, when you were on the staff of these academic facilities?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		No, obviously not.
		It's one of those situations, Arda, you know, it's just like the UFO phenomenon itself.
		The more you look at it, the more you realize there's something to it.
		And most scientists, the people who call themselves scientists, are so smug as to sit in their armchairs and deny evidence.
		It's very obvious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, John.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		You have to go to some effort to observe it.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		And in my case, to go all the way to India and see Saibaba and be able to get in to see him personally, which is in itself a miracle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, John Mack has spoken out at Harvard, and you know what happened to him for that.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Oh, gosh.
		I tell you, I mean, I really feel for John.
		He's a good friend and close colleague.
		And I was at Princeton before I started to come out of the closet in these matters, fortunately, so I didn't have to suffer the heat that John Mack has had to suffer.
		But the positive thing, of course, about staying is that he can have a great deal of influence on further directions of research.
		And his research is very valuable and important.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I'm going to get into a very sensitive area with regard to remote viewing.
		I had Major Dames on the other night and interviewed him.
		I'm sure you're familiar with the name.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Psytech.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's Psytec.
		That's correct.
		And then I had another doctor on following him.
		Both of them said the same thing.
		Major Dames, only a very quick reference to it, but there's been some experimentation with remote viewing, and those in it say they have contact with non-human intelligence.
		What do you know about that?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		I don't know about the SciTech work, to be honest with you.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		I haven't researched that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, not specifically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just meant as a general rule.
unidentified		Have you also heard this?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have kind of tangentially, but again, I'm not a real expert in remote viewing.
		I had my own remote viewing experience, which then triggered this whole new paradigm of science for me and made me just totally change my life.
		And that was my purpose of pointing that out.
		But I would check that out with Ingo Swan or some of the real experts in that area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he clearly said we are not alone.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		That's great.
		I think that that's another than a thread, at least, of evidence.
		You can't, of course, give 100% certainty.
		I basically, it's interesting because a lot of people think that the claims I make are far out, but not really because I'm a very, very cautious scientist, basically, and I seek the scientific method wherever possible to attack questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how do you act?
		As a matter of fact, we've got to take a peer, but when we come back, I will ask you how you attack the UFO field scientifically.
		I would like to know that because that's what we try to do here.
		Maybe that'll give us some leads.
		We'll be back to you, Dr. O'Leary, in just one moment.
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dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		And I would think that, first of all, the scientific method is, of course, the method that's used now within the context of current science, which I think can tell us a lot more than we've given ourselves credit for.
		And certainly in the UFO phenomenon, such things as the ground traces and animal mutilations and multiple witness sightings and all of the relatively hard evidence, I would say, is something that comes from the scientific method, more or less.
		A lot of it is the collection of data.
		The problem is now the interpretation of the data.
		And that is, of course, where there are as many theories as there are investigators.
		And part of the problem there is that the UFO phenomenon obviously has such a high degree of weirdness that we have to be humble.
		It's sort of like a coke bottle falls out of the sky and you're a bushman and what do you make of it?
		Or an aboriginal is walking through the bush and he sees a 747 flying overhead.
		He'll have his own mythology about what's going on, but he won't have the foggiest notion of what's really going on, besides certain threads of evidence that come out with such things as, of course, reverse engineering at Area 51 and genetic engineering through the abduction phenomenon and so forth.
		The ecological crisis and mandate and various channeled works and so forth.
		All of those things are common threads of messages that seem to be coming forward, but we still don't really know what's going on.
		The whole question and debate, it was interesting.
		I was just at a briefing of the board of directors of the Institute of Noetic Sciences, and Steve Greer of CSETI and Jacques Valley and I made presentations about all of this.
		And although Valle and Greer and other people might have various interpretations of what's going on, we really don't know.
		We do know one thing, and that is that we're dealing with dimensions beyond time and space.
		And obviously, when we get into those realms, it's very hard for us to develop some kind of coherent philosophy or theory.
		That's what makes it so laughable for folks like Carl Sagan, God bless him, to assert that the UFO phenomenon is just hallucinations and abductions are hallucinations and to just totally and summarily dismiss the evidence from crop circles and from the anomalies on Mars and so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think he does that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think he has a specific agenda?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, to be honest with you.
		I taught with him at Cornell.
		We were both professors of astronomy at Cornell way back in 1968, and I worked very closely with him, but that's before my own worldview shifted.
		That was before I myself considered it okay to look at UFO phenomena and related phenomena.
		But I can say one thing, is that folks like Carl, there is a very strong ethic within what's called the scientific community to stay inside the box.
		And peer pressure and funding, those are the two big variables that guide the research choices of scientists like Sagan.
		I know, because I was there.
		I did it myself for many years.
		I was in the mainstream.
		So I know how that works.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, for fear of losing some funding, you might not utter a sentence or a word you might otherwise utter.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's right.
		In other words, when it comes to belief system, and boy, there's been some really good research done on this, and we're really right up against it.
		I just, of course, finished my tour and my new book, Miracle in the Void, and I went all over the country, figure eights and doing whole-life expos here and there and doing radio and television.
		And I really got a sense that what we're dealing with here is that many, many people have such strong beliefs that they don't want to hear about this stuff.
		And it's fascinating that people who call themselves scientists are among the worst offenders.
		Science, to me, is the quest for the truth through whatever means, exploratory means, definitive, repeatable experiments, and so forth.
		So what I've taken upon myself is to be like an Indiana Jones of science, if you will, and spend the last 10 years as I have in this just inexhaustible quest for the truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much heat have you taken, Obert?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		This last tour I took a lot of heat, and we'll get to it later in the show, of course, but free energy is a concept that's coming along a lot more rapidly than many people will acknowledge.
		And this is really, in a sense, independent but somewhat overlapping with the UFO phenomenon.
		The people are producing energy devices now that produce virtually unlimited electricity, and this is popping up all over the world.
		Well, the UFO credibility rating, according to Gallup polls, as we know, is in about the 60% range publicly in America.
		The free energy credibility rating is much lower even.
		And so what we're doing here is actually we're creating a new paradigm.
		We're really in a, I think, in the middle of a scientific revolution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doctor, I'm going to have to ask you to hold it right there.
		We've got news coming at the top of the hour.
		I want to ask you about zero-point energy.
		I also want to ask you when we come back, since you've got a PhD in astronomy, about hail-bop.
		We'll do that when we come back in a moment.
		And Dr. Brian O'Leary, Dr. Doctor, can you tell us anything at all about this comet, this hailbop?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, I wish I could.
		It sounds like some of our questions are mismatched, but that's okay.
		But I can make some recommendations of people for you to interview about that.
		You see, what happens to me is that if I focus on an area like free energy or zero-point energy or the UFO question or the face on Mars, I really focus on it for quite a while, and then I'm not as aware of all the breaking stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, that one's breaking.
		There's a big one out there beyond the orbit of Jupiter, and it's going to miss us by quite a bit, 1 to 1.5 AU somewhere in there.
		But it's a big one.
		I thought I would ask.
		Let us then go back to what you do talk about.
		I've got a fact here from Phoenix, Arizona.
		Please ask Dr. O'Leary what he thinks of Hoagland's Mars mission work, the face on Mars, the monuments of Mars.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that I can address quite well because that's an area that I've been quite involved, heavily involved in the research.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		And by the way, I want to let your listeners know that Dick Hoagland is one of several researchers who have looked at this in great detail and have published papers in the peer-reviewed literature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		And there's also, of course, the McDaniel report.
		So what I want to do is kind of just fill you all in on the status of research and so forth is that a number of years ago, Hoagland and others noticed that this very strange object that was photographed by the Viking orbiter in 1976 on the surface of Mars, this is an unmanned reconnaissance probe that was sent up then.
		It took a picture of an object that looked like a large mesa that resembled a human face staring straight up into space.
		It's about a mile across and quite large and looks very Sphinx-like, almost with a headdress.
		And when the scientists first looked at that, and I know these people very well because I was involved in the Mariner missions myself as a scientist at JPL and so forth, that these people, because the possibility that it might actually be an artifact,
		just was so totally alien to the world view of the scientists that were present, after a little nervous, self-conscious laughter, that looks like a face, they pronounced the object being nothing but a pile of rocks that just resembles a human face, just like sometimes you look up in the mountains around Greenland there and see faces and rocks.
		But as the sun changed its angle, Vince DiPietro, a researcher for Goddard Space Flight Center, and Greg Molinar noticed that there was a second picture in another orbit that showed the face at a different sun angle, and it was still very face-like.
		And so Dr. Mark Carlato and I and others, using state-of-the-art image processing equipment, publish in the peer-reviewed literature, places like Applied Optics and Journal of the British Interplanetary Society, some very provocative papers that suggest that these features, especially the face, could be artificial.
		And there are a number of reasons for that.
		One is that the three-dimensional structure of the face is very face-like.
		And so this caused a very interesting controversy.
		Some of us banded together and wanted to influence NASA's decision-making in the Mars Observer mission, which was launched three years ago, which would have provided much higher resolution pictures of the face, to have them target the face as a high priority.
		And that simply didn't happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as a matter of fact, my understanding is, Doctor, that they fought it tooth and nail.
		In other words, they specifically said they would not go back and look at it again.
		And that seemed odd because they didn't have any other things that looked like faces on Mars.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there was a political process where they were in denial for a while and then were provoked into saying, well, okay, we'll look at it.
		But then, you see, one of the ironies of this is, of course, when Mars Observer, two days out of orbit from Mars a couple years ago, when it was coming into Mars, totally lost the signal.
		So we got nothing.
		And of course, there have been allegations that perhaps NASA actually did get pictures but was covering them up.
		And other allegations that, well, maybe there's some alien activity around Mars because Phobos II, the Soviet Union, also failed when it got to Mars.
		So there are a number of speculations, but that's the realm of speculation.
		The realm of solid research suggests very strongly that these objects are artificial constructions.
		And if they are, obviously this is an extremely important element in the whole search for extraterrestrial intelligence.
		And the fact that NASA has been stonewalling this through the years was very eloquently stated in a report by Professor Emeritus Philosophy, Stanley McDaniel at Sonoma State University.
		And he wrote what's called the McDaniel Report.
		And he looked at what scientists call the, or philosophers call the epistemology, fancy word that basically means how do we know what we know, behind investigations into these features.
		And he became very surprised to find that the responsible outside investigations that some of us had carried out through the years in the peer-reviewed Literature were certainly far more solidly based scientifically than the allegations against and the ridicule, the obfuscation, the propaganda issued by NASA and by Carl Sagan on these things.
		Carl wrote an article in Parade magazine.
		He seems to like to do that.
		In this particular one, a number of years ago, one of the pictures of the face appears to have been doctored from its original version, which really, you know, this really gets me concerned because these are the people I used to work with and I thought scientists were totally honest in their approach to scientific questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard Hoagland's work is based on something that he calls tetrahedral physics.
		Now, have you examined that?
		Have you looked at that?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		I haven't, to be honest with you.
		You know, each of these subjects could take a scientist months to do, so I have to make my choices, and it's very difficult to do so.
		I do know one thing is that Dick Hoagland, I admire his work a lot.
		He's an excellent speaker, and I think he has a lot of very valid points to raise.
		However, sometimes arguments based on geometry or latitudes and that kind of thing, I think, need tighter criteria to pin it down, if you know what I mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, then let us skip then quickly to the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He has photographs that he claims show shards and what he claims may even be old buildings or cities on the moon.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		These photographs are very controversial.
		There are some folks that definitely defend that point of view, and there are some others that don't.
		And so I think the jury is still out on that, just like the alien autopsy footage.
		Allegations like that, I think, take years of in-depth work.
		And fortunately, in the case of Mars, that has already been done.
		Thanks to Stan McDaniel and also Dick Hobland and Mark Carlato and a number of other investigators.
		All of us worked together for a number of years to come up with the findings we did come up with.
		And they're all reported in my books, by the way, as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's skip then and jump.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Shift the gears, yes.
		Well, that's really been my love over the last three years.
		About three years ago, I began to investigate this concept.
		I couldn't ignore it anymore.
		There were too many people reminding me of Nikola Tesla and various concepts, T. Henry Murray and these other people in history that came up with devices that evidently produced more electricity than went into it.
		And of course, my initial reaction was like, would be like any mainstream scientist, that smacks of perpetual motion.
		It makes no sense.
		That's funk.
		And so I said, well, okay, I'm just going to spend some time at this.
		And so I first visited with Thomas Bearden, very talented researcher, on these questions.
		And I began to find that 19th century physics going into the 20th century went in a kind of a strange direction because a lot of physicists had forgotten what was called the scalar term or a term in Maxwell's equations of electromagnetics to kind of bring this down to Earth.
		Basically, I think what's going on here, and this is according to the most recent theories of Harold Puttoff, Bernie Haits, and other people who have published some of these ideas in the peer-reviewed mainstream physics literature.
		So here we're talking about mainstream physics theories, not conjecture or even metaphysics.
		And what Putoff and others have come up with, and what I've already come up with myself, virtually independently of that, as well as physicist and Apollo 14 astronaut Ed Mitchell and a number of other people, a number of us have been working on this question for a number of years and we're all coming together, speaking the same language, and it's really good news.
		And basically what it is, Art, is that the vacuum of space and all of time and space is flooded with an all-pervasive electromagnetic field called the zero-point field.
		And it's called the zero-point field because at absolute zero temperatures, when you think that all molecular motion and therefore all energy ceases to exist, the energy does in fact exist, but it is homogeneous and isotropic.
		It means it's the same everywhere and the same in all directions.
		And what that basically means is that it's virtually undetectable and untappable unless you start to do something like accelerate a charge, an electromagnetic charge, within that time-space matrix.
		So to make a long story reasonably short, people have been coming up with devices ever since the time of Faraday in the 19th century that have magnets that are located on wheels that are spun up at a certain threshold RPM.
		And lo and behold, because of the acceleration in the circular motion of the magnets, they interact with the zero-point field and create anomalous amounts of electricity.
		And these things have been observed in the laboratory for a number of years.
		But now the technology for rotating magnetic wheels, cold fusion devices, which many of us believe is a form of zero-point energy, solid-state devices, a number of electrostatic devices, Tesla coils and so forth, what I discovered was that not only is the theory palatable, it's absolutely necessary.
		In other words, one has to hypothesize that this field does exist and that these are the conditions for which you can tap that energy.
		And the energy is virtually unlimited.
		It basically, I think another way of saying it is that it comes from dimensions beyond time and space and totally floods all of time and space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doctor.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Well, one cubic centimeter of it is enough to evaporate all the oceans on the Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, is the second law of thermodynamics invalid?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Well, within the context, and again we talk about boxes, if you talk about, remember now the laws of thermodynamics are based on systems that are in, quote, equilibrium.
		Okay, and non-equilibrium thermodynamics becomes very, very sticky wicket for those that want the universe to be simple.
		And people like India Prigogine, who won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry for chaos theory, his discovery of chaos theory, found that when systems are out of equilibrium, that there are conditions under which they can go through phase changes or enormous shifts in short amounts of time.
		And some of these ideas that Prigogine has come up with, John Archibald Wheeler, a Nobel laureate physicist who also hypothesized the zero-point energy field because a lot of the concepts of quantum theory must depend on the existence of the field.
		There's now an emerging consensus among those mainstream physicists who have chosen to look at the question that this field does exist and is therefore the underlying principle for a number of things like anti-gravity propulsion, non-linear, non-Newtonian motions that you see in the UFO phenomenon, and a whole, it just explains a whole host of different phenomena.
		But the good news about all of this is that it can also solve our energy crisis and stop the greenhouse effect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, stop there for just a moment.
		We'll be right back to you.
		My guest is Dr. Brian O'Leary.
		We're talking energy.
		We'll be right.
		Back to Maui, Hawaii, and Dr. O'Leary.
		Doctor, you're saying that some of that was pretty technical stuff.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have to confess, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so what you're basically telling everybody is there is a way here on Earth or in space to draw on a source of energy that is literally everywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And have you seen such a mission, such a device, demonstrated to actually produce more energy out than it takes in?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and again, by that, I mean it's like the second law of thermodynamics, which is a box that circumscribes a, in other words, the assumption is the system is in equilibrium.
		Well, likewise, these objects actually are objects that tend to interact with the zero-point field and extract a very tiny fraction of that energy.
		And so in a way, in the larger sense, using a bigger box, and of course Dreamland is about getting out of the box, in the bigger box concept, then it's possible because this is simply a previously unacknowledged energy that's been lying in potential.
		It's like a big war waiting to be tapped.
		But we just have to know how to do it.
		Well, I have seen a number of machines worldwide, and this has really astounded me, Art.
		I think, and now when I got into my third of my trilogy, this was three years ago, and I got into this subject, I thought I was going to have an easy time of it and just go around and take pictures of inventors around the world and do a photojournalistic report, which is what my new book is all about.
		But what happened to me was that I saw so many of these demonstrations.
		I saw one in India, Paramahansa Tiwari, for example.
		He has an N machine.
		This was originally invented by the former MIT man who's now in New Zealand, Bruce DePama.
		Well, at any rate, Tiwari is the chief project engineer of the largest nuclear power plant construction project in India, and is a very high-up government official there, as a PhD physicist, and has won all sorts of prizes.
		He's a brilliant man.
		And the Indian government allows him in his off time, and he's going to have more off time in another year when he retires from the project, to develop free energy.
		And so he's developed his own end machine, actually a couple of them, and very dramatically demonstrated to me the concept by basically he accelerated a wheel with magnets on it to a certain threshold revolutions per minute.
		And at that point, enough excess energy was coming off so that you could unplug the motor.
		And then it runs as a generator indefinitely generating electricity.
		Now, the only thing is, the only hitch is in this particular machine, he has to turn it off after a while because it overheats.
		You see, we're not at the commercial prototype stage in some of these technologies, although that's beginning to happen rapidly, too.
		And there are all sorts of professional organizations starting on this whole thing.
		This technology is much further along than you would ever imagine.
		Japan is the most likely place for it to be developed.
		We already are seeing investments by a number of Japanese corporations in this technology.
		And there's another person whom I visited, Shuji Inamata, who is a PhD chemist who works at the Electrotechnical Laboratories at the Tsukuba Space Facility in Japan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, doctor, we're going to have to hold it there for a moment.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		Anyway, Doctor, listen, you've got a bunch of books, and you've got a brand new book I know, Miracle in the Void.
		It's beautiful.
		It's right in front of me.
		Why don't you tell people what they can get, how they can get it, what it costs, all that kind of stuff, telephone numbers, whatever you like.
		Plug away.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's great.
		I appreciate that, Art.
		Well, Miracle in the Void, the subtitle is Free Energy, UFOs, and Other Scientific Revelations.
		And it's a number of things.
		It's about the coming energy revolution, free energy and what it means to our planet.
		It's about existing devices currently and secretly being developed worldwide.
		And this is based on my, well, it's also, in a way, it's like your book a little bit.
		It's both a personal odyssey and a journalistic look at the state of the art based on my journey all over the world and visiting dozens of free energy inventors and theoreticians and other people.
		But it's also a concise examination between the relationship between free energy and the UFO question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sure as hell isn't establishment stuff.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		No, it isn't.
		In fact, I find myself, if anything, and this is very sad, but very often ridiculed, for what I consider very detailed photojournalistic work.
		But then again, we're talking, you know, there's a great Bertrand Russell quote.
		I love this one.
		It's that the resistance to a new idea is proportional to the square of its importance.
		And so, for example, let's take the question of energy, and then we'll get back to the books in a moment.
		But the question of energy, we're talking about a $2 trillion highly polluting energy infrastructure, mostly due to the burning of oil worldwide.
		We know we only have 40 years of oil left.
		20 years ago, I was more a presidential candidate, Morris Udall's energy advisor and speechwriter for his presidential candidacy.
		And I also orchestrated hearings for the Interior Committee and Subcommittee on Energy and the Environment.
		And this was 20 years ago in 1975.
		And during that time, we had an energy crisis.
		We had a perception that we had to develop alternative energy sources.
		And at that time, I was unaware of the zero-point energy or free energy.
		And it was only over the last three years that I did my in-depth research, which resulted in Miracle in the Void.
		So that book is just out.
		And it's doing very well, by the way.
		It's been praised by people like Whitley Streeber and Tom Bearden, Bruce DePama, and a number of other very well-known Dennis Weaver, the actor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, here, let me put in a plug.
		It says, Whitley said, and I had him on here a couple of weeks ago, Whitley said, I love this brilliantly conceived, wise, and wonderful book.
		That's quite a wonderful quote from Whitley.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I really appreciate that.
		And, you know, he's a colleague, along with many of the other people you interview.
		And certainly Whitley, I agree with Whitley, that we're dealing now with recovering lost memories of our essence.
		And that's part of what the UFO phenomenon is about, which makes it so important.
		The phenomenon of contact and the fact that it's happening in ways we may not have preconceived or formulated.
		And so I address that question in this book, as well as the question of the paradigm shift that will inevitably happen when we present free energy to our culture.
		And the Japanese are already doing that, and that's the point.
		And no matter what happens, all the haranguing and suppression that we've had here in America and the expatriation of inventors to other countries is shocking.
		And so my book talks about that.
		It talks about the suppression syndrome.
		It talks about the state of the art.
		And it talks about my own personal grieving process in a way because, you know, there are a lot of folks out there like Lone Eagle, God bless them, but people let their fundamentalist beliefs sometimes run up against the stop here and obviously the government itself and Fagin and so forth.
		We can't put energy on that.
		We have to look at these technologies as they emerge.
		And they're obviously going to change the world so profoundly.
		And that's what really I got into as a personal experience.
		And I found that culturally, virtually everybody is suffering from a severe case of denial.
		And that belief systems, their belief systems being violated is something that most people or many people find untenable.
		And what very often happens, and this was my experience in my book tour around the country, is that when people get out of their denial, and there's a wonderful bumper sticker that says, the truth will set you free, but at first it will piss you off.
		And what happens, and then I got into Elizabeth Kubler-Ross's research on death and dying, that people will, normal people need to grieve the old.
		And the grieving process involves a bunch of irrational emotions that people go through in order to finally accept the new.
		And I see this happening to me.
		I see it happening to all of us, that when our denial is through and we get into anger, then that's a normal progression in the grieving process.
		All right, Doctor, we need to help one another through it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do they get your book?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Okay, yeah, let's get to the punchline here.
		Yes, you can get Miracle in the Void in the States for $25 post-paid by calling 800-842-8338.
		And I'll repeat that for you.
		That's 800-842-8338.
		And I'm also offering a special of my trilogy of books, which really describes the full gamut of my explorations over the last 10 years.
		And that includes my books, Exploring Inner and Outer Space, The Second Coming of Science, and Miracle in the Void.
		And that can be obtained for $55 post-paid by calling the same 800 number that is 800-842-8338.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good.
		All right.
		I've got a bunch of people that would like to ask you questions, so let's take a couple.
		First-time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. O'Leary.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		I'm calling from San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My name is Andre.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I'm wondering if you're familiar with the work that Joe Newman's done.
		We don't have to go overseas to see over Unity devices.
		Joe's got one he's been working with for 30 years now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he was on Johnny Carson with it or something, I think.
unidentified		Yeah, several years ago.
		I've seen it and talked to him several times myself.
		I had been building one up myself and having pretty good results with it myself.
		So anyway, I wondered if you had...
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		And unfortunately, I didn't have a chance to visit with Joe Newman.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		I kind of made an arbitrary selection of inventors, and in fact, I went abroad for most of my because I think there's more action offshore here on this particular question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what he was saying, though, that you don't really have to go offshore, that Mr. Newman has claimed for, I don't know how long now, that he's got such a device.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and there are a number of people out there, and what I did was I picked about, oh, 12 to 20 individuals that I really focused on, like, for example, the Canadian inventor, John Hutchison, who's come up with a solid-state device, which I think is perhaps the archetype of a device that we're going to have in our homes that will replace our fuse boxes and circuit breakers and internal combustion engines.
		And this, I think, is going to happen very soon, like within a few years, because the Japanese, you see, while there have been developments here by folks like Joe Newman and all of the others, and I really give them tremendous credit for their pioneering work in the face of a very suppressive and non-supportive environment,
		but what's happening now abroad, and especially in Japan, is that people like Inamata that I referred to earlier, he's being funded by Toshiba Corporation to develop a superconducting magnet system.
		And you see, this is now, what's happening right now is different from a few years ago.
		And that's what my explorations revealed to me and what Miracle in the Void is all about, is that, hey, this technology is not only one that has been developed by isolated inventors here and there through the decades, but this is going like gangbusters.
		And some of us have even founded a professional organization called the International Association for New Science.
		And we've had now two symposia on new energy.
		And we're going to have a third one in Denver on April 27th to 29th.
		And we hope to have there, there's one device called the Patterson Fuel Cell, which is basically a cold fusion device, which is a whole different subject, but in a way related.
		Yes, which produces over-unity electrical power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I know.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		So these things are happening very fast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, I've got a question.
		And maybe it's a larger question.
		If these devices here or in Japan or in India or wherever in the world they are exist and they really do what they say they do, this is a very capitalistic country.
		And somebody, surely somebody would come out and produce one and say, here it is, put this box outside your home, disconnect the power company, that's it.
		And they'd make themselves a multiple billionaire in the process.
		And so why have they?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is very strange art, but when you get into it, and of course that's what my book is about.
		In fact, I talked about one financier, one potential financier of the project.
		And most people in that world are waiting for commercial prototypes to become actually available.
		with the chicken and the egg problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but all you'd have to do, doctor, is hook up one house, disconnect the power, and say, invite the press in, and say, And we're getting very much closer to that day.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		And so look for it in the news.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		So far, there's been pretty much a media blackout.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying it is going to happen?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		oh yes uh...
unidentified		but the problem is now Is there any reality to that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, oh, absolutely.
		And that's an excellent question.
		In fact, I made a technical presentation to my cousin in Albuquerque, who is the president of the largest bank there.
		And he was in absolute agreement with the technical feasibility of it and the fact that we may be able to have it technically within, let's say, five years, especially if the Japanese develop it as they are.
		But he said that America's economy is designed to not be able to allow for anything that revolutionary for at least 20 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so then what if, Doctor, hold on.
		If I had one then, let's go back to what I said a little while ago.
		And I was able to demonstrate that it worked with one house, just one house, would the government guys dressed in black come and kill me?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think so.
		See, I think the genie's out of the bottle, and that's what part of my research for Miracle in the Void was all about, was I found that there were just untold hundreds of inventors worldwide, many of whom are coming up with research devices that are like preludes to commercial prototypes.
		And two or three people have already come up with commercial prototypes.
		So we're right on the verge of an explosive technological revolution here.
		And so the real question is economics, and I think that's an excellent question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but the problem, Doctor, is that people are killed every day for hundreds or even in the low thousands of dollars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're talking about literally trillions of dollars here.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		So what that means from my point of view is, you see, I looked at the ecological questions too, and there's some very alarming news about the Earth.
		One of it is the possibility that we're already into the greenhouse effect, and that's what's causing a lot of the local weather and climate dreams that are beginning to take place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		If that were the case, then we're going to have to convert from a fossil fuel economy, energy economy worldwide.
		You know, we have tripled our oil consumption since 1975 when I worked with Mo Udall, and that's not good for the Earth.
		And I think most of us at some level realize that.
		So in a way, it forces the issue of economics, politics, and all sorts of things.
		It's like a Pandora's box.
		It's like the UFO question.
		And that's why I studied the two questions in my new book in parallel, because I see the two are very related, not only in terms of technology, but in terms of the influence on us philosophically, economically, spiritually, and so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		Let's try to get one more in here.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. O'Leary.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, this is Bob in Wichita.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Wichita, yes, Bob.
unidentified		When I was in California, Bruce DuPont was on the radio on KPFK with Roy of Hollywood.
		And I got to talk to Bruce.
		And I sent for the literature, which cost $20 at that time.
		And I'm fairly well-versed in reading and all that stuff and some science.
		And I could not decipher what the text was supposed to mean.
		Are you sure?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, part of that is, I guess, the problem of science and translating the concepts of science to the general public.
		I do everything I can, and I know you do too, Art, to interpret scientific information so it's understandable to the layperson.
		Well, all right, but my goal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, I asked you earlier to give us an explanation of how this works, and you did to some degree, but I didn't quite understand still how we get around the second law of thermodynamics.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		The way to get around it is, first of all, think of the system as a larger system, and that there's a concept here than anything involved in the laws of thermodynamics.
		And then that makes it not a law, but a law under only certain circumstances.
		And that includes equilibrium, thermodynamic equilibrium, which is a condition which simply doesn't apply to the universe as a whole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that makes it more like a regulation than a law.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a regulation under a limited set of circumstances.
		It's a limiting case of reality, just like Newton's laws are a limiting case of reality.
		And so, yeah, it applies over a range of circumstances here in the Earth, but it doesn't hold the whole universe in its grip.
		And a number of Nobel laureates have pointed that out, the explication of that second law.
		So it's no big deal.
		It's just that we haven't been aware of this energy source primarily because it behaves the same in all directions and the same at all points.
		So it's very similar to the problem of trying to weigh a beaker of water underneath the surface of the ocean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		there's a good parallel.
		That's a very good parallel.
		Doctor, stand by.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		Relax.
		You've got about seven minutes.
		My guest is Dr. Brian O'Leary from an area near Dreamland.
unidentified		This is Dreamland.
unidentified		Any numbers for learn more about the centability?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Sorry, I didn't catch your question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think he's asking about remote viewing, is that correct?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's wondering if you've got any information or contact numbers.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Off the cuff, no.
		My books do go into it, and I do have a bibliography and a set of references in all of my books, in my trilogy of books, and I do talk about remote viewing in there.
		Besides that, I think that I would check in with people like Ingo Swan.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're second.
unidentified		One more question, if it's okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, go ahead.
unidentified		Okay.
		And I listen to your program a lot.
		First of all, you've got excellent case in music.
		And a couple of years ago, maybe about ten years ago, I wrote a letter to NASA telling him that I had discovered a solar system between the Milky Way and Andromeda.
		And I told them what was there, how many planets were in that solar system.
		And five years later, they write to me and tell me that they have found them.
		But my thing, what I got from my school was they were pretty upset with me because I went without their permission to write these letters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what to make out of all that.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think, you know, anybody with new ideas, whether they turn out to be proven or not, or let's say corroborated by others, and that's part of the scientific method, by the way, is that if somebody has an idea and it's confirmed by somebody else, then that becomes very powerful.
		And that's why when I describe what I consider to be a truth, I really mean it.
		It has plenty of evidence from many, many different directions, just like in the UFO phenomenon.
		So I would say just go with the idea and present it to various people, and if it's corroborated.
		But any authority figure that tries to put you down, I wouldn't let that get in my way.
		I haven't so far.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. O'Leary.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
		Going once, twice gone.
		Wild Guard Line, you're on the air with Dr. O'Leary.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Arkfell.
unidentified		Great show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Just one question for your guests or comment is that the industry would be really happy to have the free energy device because it would help reduce their cost quite significantly.
		And although I can see the utility industry going against that, there's many, many industries that would be in favor of it.
		For example, the automobile industry and it just could use a lot of energy.
		Maybe you could comment.
		I'll hang up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		Yeah, it's the eternal question.
		I don't understand it either.
		While you understand there are a lot of energy-producing industries that would probably come and run you off the road and make you go over a cliff or something if you really had something, there are enough other industries and people with money and entrepreneurs and people who want to get rich that somehow these devices would make it.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, I'm very optimistic about this art.
		I think that they will, and I think that they will be made in Japan.
		I would love this country to wake up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why not here?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Because for whatever reason, and this has been going on, as we know, for a number of years, and it's getting worse and worse as time goes on.
		And we began the show art with talking about the good old Apollo days when we had goals and visions and we united in common purpose.
		And right now we have two very big cosmic questions that are on our platter.
		One is the question of extraterrestrial or interdimensional intelligence, and the other is the question of supplanting our polluting energy infrastructure and creating a clean Earth through the use of some of these new energy technologies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, do you have a favorite of the two theories?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These beings, assuming for the sake of our discussion they exist, would you think be more likely to say they're interdimensional or actually have come here through space?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's both.
		I think it's both of the above.
		It seems like there's enough information that that is so.
		And I think that also interdimensionality is a concept which is getting more and more popular among even mainstream physicists who are positing that that is absolutely necessary to unify the known physical laws, but then put on top of that the phenomena of consciousness and psychokinesis and so forth.
		And then we really are coming up with a unified field theory that makes sense.
		And so I think that's part of what I'm very excited about is unifying all the sciences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doctor, here's the facts.
		Art, of course, this is why the feds raided and sanitized the home and lab of Tesla.
		He was probably 50 years ahead of everybody else in developing free energy, a thousand years ahead of where the government and energy companies wanted him to be.
		You agree?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Doctor?
		Well, the Tesla question was, I mean, the history of Tesla consumes many books.
		I'm not a Tesla scholar, so once again, I don't want to claim any special knowledge about this, but it's pretty obvious that Tesla was developing some technologies that were way out there, including free energy.
		And J.P. Morgan, who funded him, owned all the copper mines around.
		And at that point, Morgan was running ahead with Edison's grid system, which ironically was based on Tesla's AC, or alternating current invention.
		So it's kind of a long story, a long history, but Tesla was pretty suppressed, basically.
		And that's what has happened to all the inventors since then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. O'Leary.
		Hello.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm calling from Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And the question I had was has he met Dennis Lee and has he had any experience with any of his prototypes?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have met Dennis a couple of times.
		Actually, I met him in Las Vegas, of all places, about three weeks ago at the Whole Life Expo there.
		He was also speaking there.
		And he's a good man, and he's all part of this overall effort to create energy sources that make a lot of sense ecologically for the Earth in the long run.
unidentified		And so he's one of the many people.
unidentified		Have you seen any of his prototypes?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		No, I haven't personally visited him or seen his prototypes.
		No, I have visited Troy Reed in Oklahoma and a number of other American inventors, some of whom did not want to be reported in my book at all, which initially surprised me, but then I later discovered, yes, if anybody wants to be discreet in this country, that's the way you have to be.
		And that's one of the reasons why Japan is moving ahead of us.
unidentified		Now, I'm told that the government is very active in discouraging these free energy devices.
unidentified		I'm even told that people have been put in jail like Dennis Lee, and people have been sabotaged.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		There have been innumerable suppression tactics and techniques used against many of these people, and it's very sad.
		A lot of the brightest and best inventors have become expatriated because they found no atmosphere conducive to doing research here.
		For example, Bruce DePama, the inventor of the N-Machine, former MIT faculty member and free energy inventor, is now in New Zealand.
		He had to leave the country pretty much because there really was no support for his work here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's absolutely.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		There are a number of other people, Pones and Fleshman, who developed cold fusion at the University of Utah in 1989.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		They're now in the south of France doing their research, being funded by a Japanese consortium.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's absolutely depressing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, as an American, I find that depressing.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and that's why I think a show like this is a great way to start to get the word out and say, hey, we've been asleep.
		And yes, there have been media blackouts on this, and I know that, and many of the rest of us do, too.
		But we have to network and get this into the system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. O'Leary.
		Hello?
unidentified		Yeah, this is Fritz from Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Fritz.
unidentified		Doctor, do you recall back in September 1989, there was a tremendous UFO landing in Wornevsk, Russia, back there in September, on a playground where the children saw the UFO land and the entities came out.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I read the news reports.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		I haven't done any detailed investigation of that incident.
unidentified		And of course, the whole Eastern Bloc of UFO researchers went over there to check it out.
		And when the media asked the researchers how they can be so certain it was a UFO landing, the answer was yes, we did it with biolocation.
		So bi-location is the Russian word for remote viewing, and they were way ahead of our time.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a very good point.
		And I noticed that in the news clipping.
		And indeed, yes, the Eastern Bloc countries have been doing research on these kinds of things for a lot longer.
		On the other hand, there's so much leapfrogging going on in research in the areas of consciousness, not only remote viewing, but things like the power of prayer or of being able to amplify mind-over-matter effects, such as Bob John discovered at Princeton.
		To be much larger, there was a group called Fendrift that came up with some results that were very great.
		In other words, the ultimate technology from all of this is being able to create our own material reality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor can do it.
		Right, okay.
		Well, let me ask this question, Doctor.
		Do you think ultimately, with the Earth's problems ecologically and so forth, that our answer will come from the hard sciences, or do you think it will come from the parapsychological world?
		How about that?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's certainly not the hard sciences such as we know them and have limited them.
		Although there are some hard scientists now that are going out in a limb, I'm one of them.
		It's quite a journey, and it's the bridging journey.
		And so I think it's both of the above.
		I think that the UFO phenomenon is leading to the unraveling of the greatest mystery of our time.
		And also, I don't want to divert, but I also remind me, Art, that I want to share with you some up-to-date information about what's called the Starlight Coalition, which is a group that's attempting to get the government to release UFO information ASAP.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it would sure be fun to have you and Dr. Sagan on the same show.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, that would be most welcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you enjoy that?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'd be very pleased to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That'd be a fun session.
		I don't know whether he would be.
		It'd be a fiery session.
		It'd be fun.
		Anyway, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. O'Leary.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, good evening, Ert.
		This is Rick from Springfield, Illinois, and I have to agree with your guest.
		I think your show is very important.
		I've followed you from three states in the last six months, and I've been able to catch you wherever I've moved from.
		Thank you.
		You've been talking about a paradigm shift, and I think that Richard Hoagland is working on an incredible paradigm shift.
		He's trying to get a privately planned mission to go to the moon, unmanned mission to the moon.
		And if his theories about the objects on the moon were to be in people's living rooms on pay-per-view, that would create a paradigm shift.
		And I was just wondering what your thoughts are on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doctor?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I would say that Hoagland's scenario is one of many, many parallel scenarios, any one of which might trigger the others.
		That's not so exciting about our time.
		And I don't know whether I necessarily support that as the initial triggering event, but we are in for a paradigm shift.
		And boy, my trilogy of books amply describes that.
		The evidence is just so abundant.
		I think that's the good news.
		The bad news is that this chaotic transitional period is very queasy.
		It's almost like we inhabit these two realities at once.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it right there for a moment.
		We'll be right back to you.
		For several months now, we have been literally preaching to you.
		Dr. O'Leary, back to the phone lines for a second.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
		Goodbye.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. O'Leary.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, I'm calling from San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		San Diego, yes, sir.
unidentified		Yes, can you expand on the scenes of what Neil Armstrong spoke about a few years back, about the universe?
unidentified		And can you tell us about the new comet?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would, okay, well, we already asked about the comet, but with regard to Neil Armstrong, Dr. O'Leary, he has made so many statements that seem sort of halfway out on a limb.
		You know, there are things that we will discover that will boggle our mind, and he said these kinds of things at the White House from an astronaut who's been there.
		What do you make of Neil Armstrong?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I didn't know Neil too well in the program, to be honest with you, and I did know Buzz Aldrin.
		And Buzz, you know, there's a question there.
		The only thing that I can say is that a number of us recently, and I want to give you some up-to-date news that's more than just the quote from Armstrong, which I think is very related to this, and I did want to talk about this, it's really important, is that a number of us have founded and formed what's called the Starlight Coalition and also a congressional initiative.
		And the idea is to bring forward those credible witnesses, whether they be astronauts, former military, or current military, and intelligence people who have had UFO experiences or eyewitnessed events.
		And what we would like to do is to urge the President, well, we have done already, to issue an executive order granting immunity against prosecution for violating secrecy oaths.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
		Oh, is that ever a good idea?
		We're at the bottom of the hour, so hang tight.
		We'll come back and talk about exactly that.
		My guest is Dr. Brian O'Leary, astronaut scientist.
		He'll be back with us today.
		At least you mentioned Buzz Aldrin.
		You got to speak to some astronauts.
		You were at least within the program.
		There must have been a time when you guys went out and had a few martinis, if not eight.
		And was there ever a time that one of them who had been there told you anything about seeing things that they would not otherwise talk about?
		Doctor?
		Are you there?
unidentified		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The doctor seems not to be there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's an interesting point to have lost him, isn't it?
unidentified		Doctor, are you there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as usual, it looks like we've lost the doctor.
		So we're going to have to try to get him back on the line.
		Be patient, everybody.
		This is a fairly normal occurrence.
		Every now and then, the phone company simply dumps us.
		And I don't know what causes that.
		I have no way of knowing what causes that, but we'll try to get him back.
		Usually it's when we're ready to talk about something very critical like this.
unidentified		makes one a little suspicious It's Christmas time from Coos GMX.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remember, you get a signed copy of my book.
		Okay, we're just about there.
		We'll take care of the rest of the commercial messaging right now.
		Now, back to Maui, Hawaii, I trust.
		And, Doctor, are you there?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am, Art.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad to be back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm glad to be back too.
		All right, listen.
		Before we get back into where you were headed, you were in the Apollo program.
		So there had to have been times when you and Buzz Aldrin or you and any other astronaut who did make it into space got to sit down and have a few martinis or ten together.
		Did they ever?
		Did they ever have to?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't happen to me.
		I wish it had, of course.
		But in a way, maybe it's good because it means I'm being just totally honest, that there really is nothing that I know that they told me.
		And I did, it's interesting because I mentioned just before the break that this group called the Starlight Coalition, which was convened by Lawrence Rockefeller and Stephen Greer, Apollo 14 astronaut Ed Mitchell and a number of other people, and the committee asked me on their behalf to write the astronauts that I knew and to ask them just point blank, directly, in a friendly way, did you see anything?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		And so far I have 10 out of 10 very stern no answers.
		Well, that's not unexpected.
		And it doesn't mean that my guess, I'll give you a guess, is that some people probably saw something and some didn't.
		And the ones that didn't weren't debriefed and they're still probably in denial as scientists, as most scientists are, about the whole UFO phenomenon.
		Because of cultural things.
		Culturally, we're so diversified.
		It's really amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here's one from Los Angeles and the same from San Francisco.
		They're both the same.
		Larry, listening to KSVO in San Francisco and Tom from LA wants to know, Art, please quit pussyfooting around.
		There are two obvious questions I'd like answered about this free energy thing and I'm willing to buy the books to find out.
		One, where can I get the blueprints for one of these things?
		Two, where can I see one working?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, yeah, the book does give several names of several organizations that are taking care of these things.
		I can give you a number.
		It's in Colorado.
		It's called the International Association for New Science.
		And we're planning a symposium April 27th to 29th.
		We'll have some actual devices demonstrated and people coming to present their results.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, what is that number, please?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		It's area code 970-482-3731.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		3731.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's where you can see them actually demonstrated.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's an organization called the International Association for New Science.
		It's an organization that I co-founded.
		And it's out of Fort Collins, Colorado.
		And we will be hosting this meeting in Denver April 27th to 29th.
		And that would be a great meeting to come to.
		And the other thing is to just, yes, buy my books because they give you all the information you need to go to the resources that you need to get into this field more in depth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the number to buy your book again is 1-800.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yes, 1-800-842-8338.
		And I'll say that again as 1-800-842-8338.
		Miracle in the Void is the latest of my new science trilogy, and that's available for $25 post-paid, if you call that number, and you'll get it by Christmas.
		Or the whole trilogy of books, my new science trilogy, which includes my other books, Exploring Inner and Outer Space, The Second Coming of Science, and Miracle in the Void, which is really a compilation of 10 years of personal odyssey and photojournalistic and scientific journeys in layman's language to all of these realms of UFO Dom and Face on Mars and crop circles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm curious about something, Doctor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If I were to go to NASA and I were to ask NASA about Dr. O'Leary, who's over on Maui, what do you think NASA would say?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm sure they'd make snide remarks, but it doesn't really matter anymore because I see NASA as kind of a decadent bureaucracy working on problems that are relatively trivial compared to what we need to do to save this planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you see them about the same way Richard Hoagland does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Pretty much, yeah, I agree with him in that respect, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. O'Leary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, this is Doug in Spring Valley, and I have two questions and a comment.
		Yes?
		Okay, two questions.
		Is this power system related to the Tesla system that was supposedly wireless power transmission?
		Well, okay, go ahead.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		Well, that's basically true.
		And Tesla came up with one design, and there have been just literally hundreds of different designs of the kinds of systems that can pluck this energy out of the vacuum.
		So some of it is transmission.
		That was in Tesla's time.
		But now I think we need to bring the context up to date and talk about it in terms of contemporary inventions that are coming along.
		And that includes solid-state devices, cold fusion devices, rotating magnet devices, and certain Tesla devices.
unidentified		Will these devices be encumbered by patents, or will it be possible since they've been tried and tested around the world that it'll be more of an open market?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Will they be?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Very good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Will they be encumbered?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure if they protected by the patent system, but unfortunately, the patent system has been very biased against these kinds of developments in this country.
		So it's been extremely difficult to successfully consummate a patent in this field, in this country, and not run the risk of either having your device confiscated by the Department of Defense, such as what happened with Adam Trombley, or to have the patent law make it such that a big boy could buy you out, make a minor modification, and then run with the money.
		That's part of what's happening here, is that there's a lot of greed and competitiveness, and that's bottling up the system.
		It's like there's a big log jam here in bringing forward free energy, whereas Japan is moving right ahead with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a good and bad answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. O'Leary.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yes, Doctor, calling from Vancouver, Washington.
		Good evening.
		Just wanted to know whether this free energy is the same type of energy that was talked about as universal qi energy from the Chinese philosophers.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		I believe it is, and that's an excellent question because I work with qi or qi, an aikido, the Japanese call it ki.
		Aikido is a wonderful technique to learn how to do things like bend metal, bend spoons, and that sort of thing.
		And I even teach that in workshops.
		And yes, I believe it's a great question because in a way that's the lead end between free energy and consciousness.
		Because free energy or zero-point energy, I think what's happening is that our human bodies can interact with the zero-point field to produce what we call life energy or key energy.
		And of course, that's been directly measured in the laboratory, and it's well established, not only in the Chinese and Japanese traditions, but it's actually a provable scientific psychokinetic reality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. O'Leary.
		Where are you calling from, please?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		This is Dave in Illinois.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Dave.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		You did an interview roughly a month ago with Wayne Green.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		And he seems to publicize a lot of these things.
unidentified		I was wondering if there was any connection between your guest tonight and Wayne.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, do you know of Wayne Green?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I know of him.
		And we exchange our magazines, and I respect, or not magazine, my books for his magazine and his books.
		And I respect his work a lot.
		I think that we're all like pioneers, sometimes lonely, attempting to bring in a new paradigm because, boy, do we ever need it.
		We need it for the earth.
		And as I said before, I think Wayne's ideas are truly revolutionary and a number of other people.
		The government, such as it is now, is not really helping us move into this new era.
		It needs vision and needs leadership.
		And we, at the very least, in terms of science and technology, need a free energy research and development laboratory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we are truly rudderless in the process.
		We don't do the wild thing.
		It's 702-727-1295.
		Okay, first time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. O'Leary.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing fine.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm calling from Minneapolis.
		Okay.
		I talked to you a couple weeks back when we did those compass readings.
		Yes.
		The reason I'm calling is because I heard something disturbing from a friend of mine today.
		He has a close connection to someone who's part of the group that just got laid off from the Area 51 location down there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And what he told me is that this person was so disturbed at what was going on and being laid off and everything that they shared some bits of information with him.
		And what he told me was that they were not doing anything involving UFOs or with aliens, that they had no aliens down there.
		And what is going on there is for the last 20 years they've been genetically altering human beings.
		IT pilots.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, hold on a moment, sir.
		That is an interesting point, this whole business about genetics.
		I assume, Dr. O'Leary, that you have seen the purported alien autopsy.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, I have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could that, rather than being a space creature, be a genetically altered creature, do you suppose?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		That's a possibility.
		I certainly wouldn't eliminate that by any means.
		You know, we're really dealing with a very exotic phenomenon here.
		And obviously, if you start to get into the data, the abduction data and so forth, you come up with a very strong thread, common thread, of genetic engineering that we as a species may have been genetically engineered.
		Now, this seems to violate our scientific, materialistic, and religious worldviews, but it seems to make sense.
		And it could be consistent with our spiritual and scientific tradition if we just hypothesize that we have a soul and that that soul is what's really important and that we embody in these bodies which are physically just basically genetically engineered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. O'Leary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, I'd like to ask Dr. O'Leary if there's any connection with free energy and molecular nanotechnology.
unidentified		How are the two connected?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, where are you calling from?
unidentified		I'm calling from Joshua Tree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Joshua Tree.
		All right.
		In California.
		Nanotechnology, does that have application to the free energy?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		It might.
		I don't.
		I'm somewhat familiar with Eric Drexler's work, and I respect him as a colleague and a person that I had worked with in the past who has proposed nanotechnology.
		I think that that's just another way of saying that these are technologies based on very minuscule scales.
		And indeed, free energy has to do with interactions with this zero-point field, which is really what the 19th century physicists call the ether, or that which precedes the manifestation of matter and energy.
		And there have been a lot of words used for this.
		Nanotechnology, I'm sure, would come into play with this, just like quantum theory.
		Quantum physics now, I think, is going to be useful in pointing out that, yes, not only is the zero-point field real, but that quantum theory itself and some of the paradoxes within it can be reconciled.
		And you ask an excellent question, and that's worth researching.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		West of the Rockies, without much time, you're on the air with Dr. O'Leary.
		Where are you calling from, please?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Bakerfield.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I just want to ask, did you get my case in the mail?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I did, yes.
		I sent it from Bakerfield.
		Oh, yes.
		Thank you very much.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. O'Leary.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, where are you?
unidentified		I'm Lexington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lexington, Kentucky.
		Do you have a question?
		Do you have a question there, huh?
unidentified		I'm turning down my radio.
unidentified		Well, I was thinking about the nanotechnology thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I was thinking, well, when are they going to head that out?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, the question is, when will nanotechnology start to become a physical reality?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any thoughts on that?
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, I'm not an expert in this field, but my guess is that all of these technologies that are being discussed will fuse into a whole new science that will include nanotechnology, free energy, the interaction of consciousness with the environment so that we can create our own realities and interdimensionality.
		These are all things that are knocking on our door.
		And so it's more than just one area.
		These are all areas that I think will come together to form a new science just as we come into the new millennium.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Maybe time for one quick one.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. O'Leary and Maui.
		Hi.
unidentified		Love to talk to you.
		This has been the most awesome week.
		And Dr. O'Leary just topped it off.
		I cannot even believe it.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		This is Jack calling from Reading.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reading.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jack.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Jack.
dr brian oleary ▲ ● ▼		No problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jack.
		I guess that's it.
		Just a compliment.
		Very nice.
		Doctor, we are way out of time.
		I'm going to give the number to get your book, your latest book, of course, Miracle in the Void, and your other materials, 1-800.
		Thank you, and good night, Doctor.
		That's Dr. Brian O'Leary, astronaut scientist with a very long academic set of credentials.
		And all I can say to Lone Eagle is, you should be ashamed of yourself, Lone Eagle, after hearing all of this.
		I did not hear a lot of establishment there, and I just don't know how Lone Eagle did.
		That refers to an earlier fax.

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