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Dec. 7, 1995 - Art Bell

02:43:36

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Remote Viewing - Maj. Ed Dames (first appearance)

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from December 7th, 1994.
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, or in more cases, good morning, and welcome to the best in live, overnight, unscreened, unpredictable, spontaneous talk radio.
	That's what we've got right here.
	We call it Coast to Coast AM.
	Glad to have you along.
	And I was remiss last night in not welcoming yet another new affiliate, WMTN, in Mobile, Alabama.
	Good to have you on board, Mobile, Alabama.
	There's 7-10 on the dial in Mobile, and I'm sure dominate the market.
	Or if not, they will be shortly.
	This is kind of an eclectic radio program.
	A listener named it that, and I've kind of liked it ever since.
	We do all kinds of things.
	And I'll kind of outline where we're going tonight here in a second.
	I just heard a bit of news on our radio network that they plan or they're trying to ban Saturday night specials in Hollywood, California.
	And you know something?
	I have no idea what a Saturday night special is.
	It's a gun.
	Is it a gun that looks cheap?
	Or do you set a limit on how much the gun costs to determine that it is a Saturday night special?
	Is it a gun only used on Saturday nights?
	You know, I've heard this expression for a long time and I never have been able to figure out what a Saturday night special is.
	So one of you anti-gunners out there can probably help me out.
	What is a Saturday night special?
	There is a lot of news, but I have cornered a guest For next hour, who should be of some interest, you may recall the Nightline program a few nights ago that dealt with remote viewing.
	Well, I got a fax from Norio Hayakawa, which reads the following.
	It's kind of interesting.
	Major Ed Dames, U.S.
	Army, retired, has decided to go public art with his involvement in the U.S.
	government's psychic spy operations.
	In response to the half-truths, did you hear that?
	Half-truths and disinformation about the project now being disseminated by CIA and others, as reported most recently on the ABC Nightline program of 11-28-95.
	Dames is the man who actually helped create the Psychic Espionage Unit of the U.S.
	Army's Department of Military Intelligence, heading its operations for about a decade.
	Leading all of its major operations, and serving as its only training officer during the project's entire 28-year history.
	Now, the Major cannot speculate on why the CIA and others have begun this program of disinformation, though he has some ideas.
	What he can and apparently will talk about are other projects not mentioned, Sunstreak, Grill Frame, Center Lane, Stargate, I like that one, as well as Scanate.
	None of these were ever mentioned.
	They are also apparently government programs.
	So this would be the man who would know.
	He ran his unit under the charter of the DIA, Army, INSCOM, but also NSA, DIA, NEA, Navy, Air Force, in other words, all the spooks.
	And it should be very interesting to find out what Nightline told us that was wrong, and what Nightline did not tell us at all.
	And I thought you would be very interested in that.
	And he has agreed to come on for an hour at midnight.
	So we'll talk to him.
	We'll find out.
	Now, it was launched six years ago.
	Galileo has made it to Jupiter.
	It took 20 years of scientific work, and it was indeed, and they needed one, a good day for NASA.
	The probe was launched right on schedule.
	It transmitted photographs and data back to Galileo.
	The 750-pound probe deployed by Galileo entered the atmosphere.
	Parachutes popped out.
	Data began streaming in.
	And it continued for 75 minutes until the probe disintegrated, as it entered the denser aspects of Jupiter's atmospheres.
	Plural.
	At any rate, then Galileo did a rocket burn, placed itself in orbit.
	It will stay there for a couple of years, look at the moons of Jupiter, and look more at Jupiter.
	And then finally burn up in Jupiter.
	We will not get the first data it has sent for several weeks.
	The first photographs should be here by summer.
	It's very interesting.
	We don't know a thing about Jupiter.
	Very little.
	It's about 1,500 times the size of Earth.
	Now, what is interesting about Jupiter is one of the layers of atmosphere, and I know this is very hard for a lot of people to understand, including me, is made up of water.
	That's right, water.
	Just like the stuff comes out of your tap.
	That is part of the atmosphere.
	In fact, some speculate Jupiter may be nothing but many atmospheres.
	It is possible That there might be life.
	If there was going to be life, there would be life in the water portion of Jupiter's atmosphere.
	Now, whether or not it got down that far in 75 minutes of parachute descent, I don't know.
	But one would hope it did.
	It came streaking in at about 100,000 miles an hour.
	That's fast.
	50 times the speed of a bullet.
	And reached temperatures exceeding those on the surface of the Sun, and yet survived, apparently, to send back information to us.
	You've got to wonder if there is some life on Jupiter, what that life thought about what came down.
	Maybe we just provided Jupiter's Socorro crash, or Roswell crash, You'd have to wonder how any life there would view it.
	At any rate, it will be weeks or months before we get to all the information that we will have coming.
	Fascinating.
	Fascinating.
	Abortion.
	The Senate voted to ban rare late-term abortions, 54 to 44.
	That is not veto-proof.
	And the President will veto it.
	And what he cites is, um, the life of the mother and here I do agree it seems to me that if there is any justification for abortion ever it is rape incest and the life of the mother now how can you outlaw a procedure designed to save the life of the mother it seems to me you cannot so
	If this really is what the President is vetoing it for, I would agree with it.
	I am generally pro-life, but that's ridiculous.
	You don't outlaw something that would guarantee the mother would die.
	You can't tell about words and how the President puts things and what's really in the bill, but if that is the issue, I would tend to agree with that, certainly.
	Then there is the continuing forever budget battle.
	There was, as advertised, a seven-year so-called budget submitted by the President.
	He says he can balance the budget in seven years, and he does it by protecting Medicare, Medicaid, education, the environment, and doesn't even raise taxes on working families.
	Now that's quite a feat, if you can do it.
	Trouble is, He hasn't done it.
	Representative John Kasich, Republican, Budget Chairman, said this is a tremendous disappointment, and quote, they'd better come back to the table in a hurry because frankly we're running out of time.
	They've missed the mark by four hundred billion dollars minimum.
	The White House is saying privately, officials at the White House, that the December 15th deadline To either budget or bust is impossible.
	So, at this moment, unless they talk and get it on, it looks like the government will close down just as U.S.
	troops en masse set foot in Bosnia, which is my next topic.
	The deployment is picking up pace.
	GIs from around the country, Germany, other areas in Europe, are moving toward Bosnia.
	Airplanes are taking off.
	Turns out the US, us, is going to get to patrol one of the bloodiest, most dangerous areas in Bosnia, an area called the Pasovina Corridor.
	It is a pass, so named, a narrow pass, and it has been fought over with much blood spilled throughout the length of this war.
	Thousands have died there.
	It is a high location in the mountains, wet, cold, presently full of mud, defended from trenches.
	NBC was there and continued to hear sniper fire.
	Snipers continue their work there.
	And we're going!
	In Washington, one-half, fully, of the U.S.
	House of Representatives, including about a dozen Democrats, endorsed a one-line letter to the President.
	Simply said, quote, we urge you not to send ground troops to Bosnia.
	That is the message from the House.
	The President continues to insist he doesn't need congressional approval to send troops and, in fact, they're already on the way.
	This, um, from DJ in Phoenix, Dear Art, I just heard on the Bob Mohan Show, that's down on KFYI, That Clinton has promised U.S.
	ground troops to be deployed in the Golan Heights area, in order to ensure peace between Israel and Syria.
	Well, that'd be a good place to be in the Golan Heights.
	Great place for U.S.
	troops.
	So, this looks like it's going to be the new job, job one.
	uh... of the u.s.
	military and when they advertise be all you can be i guess they mean peacekeepers russian subs did anybody see peace on russian subs holy mackerel now we were supposedly at peace with the russians as a matter of fact i believe boris calls bill his friend now the cold war is supposedly over But for some reason, Russian subs, now ostensibly quieter than our subs, are shadowing all kinds of U.S.
	assets.
	Dangerously close.
	We've got one Russian nuclear submarine off Bangor, Washington, right now, doing its spy work.
	In June, near Georgia, Russian subs were seen patrolling very sensitive areas.
	In late August, a Russian sub trailed the carrier America in the mid-Atlantic.
	The carrier Lincoln had a very close brush with a Russian sub near Pearl Harbor in Hawaii.
	And these are supposed to be our friends.
	U.S.
	officials have demanded some sort of explanation.
	It is not clear exactly what we're going to do if it is not forthcoming.
	But we have demanded.
	From Scott in Butte Creek there, if there was any doubt that a Cold War is still on, NBC's story tonight on the Russian subs ought to dispel it.
	The Russian military and our own leaders know that the platonic relationship between our two nations is delicate at best.
	The admirals on both sides know in reality they could be fighting each other in a heartbeat.
	Not to train for that possibility would be a dereliction of duty and just plain stupid.
	The scary thing is that our government is acting surprised that the Russians are still preparing for battle with us.
	That proves to me that we are more naive than I thought.
	Scott.
	Scott, I never doubted it for a second.
	This administration, particularly, I believe, is rather naive.
	And so, as I've said in the past, kind of tongue-in-cheek, but not really, we had better keep our plutonium dry.
	That would be a modern twist on an old metaphor, I suppose.
	we'll be right back now as you know i read you a fax yesterday from gordon michael
	scullion who
	will be i believe on the show tomorrow night assuming were able to get through
	and do the interview schedule Thank you.
	He sent another fax, and I thought I would relay it to you.
	Art, many of your listeners called into our switchboard today concerning the state of my health.
	I'm just tired from long hours of intuitive work spanning many years, Had to cut back on my work schedule.
	Thus, no 14 to 16 hour days or late evening interviews.
	I'm sure with proper rest and balance, I'll do fine.
	Appreciate everybody being concerned and well wishes.
	Pass along my deepest appreciation to your listeners.
	Blessings, Gordon Michael Scallion.
	And he will be on the program, as you know, tomorrow night.
	Now, I have received from at least a dozen sources a story from San Diego that might fit in here somewhere.
	A world-renowned geophysicist in San Diego on a lecture tour was found slain, murdered, in his room at a downtown hotel.
	Professor Stanley Keith, I believe it is Runcorn, 73 years of age, of Fairbanks, Alaska, suffered fatal injuries to his head and upper body at the San Diego Hotel on Broadway.
	That's the San Diego Police Department reporting.
	He was a pioneer in the theory of, get this, continental movement known as plate tectonics.
	Now, The man was 73 years old.
	So, you know, that's getting up there, and you can imagine he might die of one thing or another, but he didn't.
	He was murdered.
	Now, why would anybody, I wonder, want to murder a man who might arguably know more about plate tectonics and continental drift and movement Than anybody on the face of the earth right now.
	Why would anybody want to murder such a person?
	Well, I just bet a few of you out there can imagine why.
	I thought you ought to hear that story.
	It certainly surprised me.
	Well, I've got a little more, and then we'll do some open lines, and then we'll do an interview at the top of the hour.
	Following that, it will go back to open lines, and we will do whatever you want to do.
	Very quickly, the 10 top ways to know the quickening is out of control.
	Let's see.
	10.
	A great place to surf the Fortuna Tsunami.
	9.
	Gordon Michael Scallion becomes a travel agent.
	8.
	You keep using South America as your return address.
	7.
	Hale-Bopp crashing into Earth seems like a darn good idea.
	Six, no matter what you do, your eggs always turn out scrambled.
	Five, your ATM balance reads 10.5.
	Four, you buy a select comfort mattress as a flotation device.
	Oh boy.
	Three, you were on land, now you're on water.
	Coined by Art Bell.
	Two, Bob Crane starts selling satellite navigation compasses.
	And the number one reason Your neighbor keeps asking to borrow your boat.
	The top ten reasons why, you know, the quickening has picked up speed.
	That was very nice, and I appreciate it.
	All I got was an initial as an author.
	Thank you.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 7th, 1995.
	This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast AMX-3.
	The Coast to Coast AMX-3 is a commercial aircraft carrier.
	It is a commercial aircraft carrier designed to carry a large number of passengers.
	Saturday night special.
	Ed in San Diego says, Art, it's a gun that costs between $25 and $100.
	I guess you can only use it on Saturday night, huh?
	Look, I know they're talking about cheap guns, small cheap guns, but I just don't see how you can declare something To be bannable based on a low price.
	But that's what they're going to try to do in Hollywood.
	Crazy.
	They do a lot of crazy things in Hollywood, don't they?
	Alright, and then this from Ronald and Shanna.
	Art, just think of it.
	We can defend the Muslims in Bosnia and fight them in the Golan Heights.
	Seems to be some equality there?
	Question mark?
	Have a nice day.
	1320 Super Talk up in Salt Lake City.
	So there you are.
	What I'm going to do is get the lines open now.
	Let's go ahead and do a little bit of two-way talk.
	And at midnight, we will explore the world of the psychic spy and find out, hopefully, what's really going on.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	Yeah, how big is that comic going to get?
	Uh, it looks as big as, sir, it's as big as it's gonna get right now.
	Really?
	Yeah, it's not gonna grow.
	Comets don't, comets don't grow, sir.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Alright, hang on.
	Now, everybody's gotta do that.
	When you first get on the air, click the radio off the minute you hear me answer the phone.
	Uh, let's put his line down.
	Now, where's he gone?
	How hard?
	Isn't it going to get close to the Earth?
	Oh, it'll get closer.
	It'll come within about... Right.
	But won't it grow larger in size?
	I know.
	It'll seem bigger because it's closer.
	Is that what you mean?
	Yeah, that's what I mean.
	Oh.
	Yeah, it'll seem bigger as it gets closer.
	The closest approach, however, will be what's 1.5 AU and 1 AU is about the distance between here and the Sun.
	Oh, okay.
	I thought it was a little bit closer than that.
	No, it may put on the show of the century, though.
	Well, if it's this far away from here to the sun, how's it gonna be halfway across the sky?
	Halfway across the sky?
	Yeah, you said on one of your shows, uh, when the comet goes across the sky at night, it'll be halfway across the sky.
	No, I didn't.
	No?
	No.
	Alright, thanks a lot.
	Alright, thank you.
	I have done all kinds of what-ifs on the air.
	And, uh, I could actually only conclude that he's referring to one of those what-ifs.
	You know, if a comet actually were headed toward Earth.
	A lot of people confuse my words.
	Some of them unintentionally, some of them intentionally.
	I've never said that a comet... Eventually, of course, a comet is going to hit the Earth.
	But I never said that this one would.
	I did a what-if to have a fun show.
	And there are, of course, people who interpret that immediately as meaning, Art said, the comet's going to hit the Earth.
	Well, he didn't, of course, but people will say what they will say for their own specific reasons.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yeah, hi, Art.
	It's Gib at Long Beach.
	How you doing?
	Real good.
	I'm thinking about your thoughts on the quickening.
	Yes.
	I'm trying to figure out What might be a common denominator and where it could be heading, especially with things like Bosnia and whatnot.
	I'm wondering if the connection is moving towards a one-world government, and what your thoughts are on a one-world government.
	Well, as long as I'm part of the power structure, it would be alright.
	It's always scared me, but the more I think about it, Especially around topics like UFOs, it seems like for the planet Earth to take the next evolutionary jump, if you will, we've got to get away from nation-states and start thinking more in terms of a planet.
	Ultimately, if we survive, that will occur.
	I'm not really looking forward to the prospect, and my joke aside, I like being an American.
	I like America.
	I don't want to mesh America with any other country or countries.
	I don't want to share the wealth.
	I'm a selfish pig.
	You know?
	I mean, we've got a good country.
	I like what we've got.
	As long as those were the values that were prevailing.
	Yeah, and as long as they do, there will not be a one-world government, so you don't have anything to worry about.
	But as I said, if there is, I want a high position.
	Where do you think the quickening... I mean, when you talk about all of these things like the quickening, what is your thoughts as to where it's leading?
	You know, that's a very good question, and the honest answer is, I have no idea.
	I am an observer.
	I am not a prophet.
	I am not a religious... I don't come at it from a religious angle.
	I don't think God's about to come down and rapture us all, or part of us.
	I have no idea, sir.
	I leave that to all of you.
	I simply observe the news, close in, close up, day in and day out, for years and years and years, and I clearly see there is an acceleration.
	What are your major things that you're following?
	You've been talking about earthquakes and geological movements lately, but more in terms of geopolitical All right, fine.
	Let's look at that for a second.
	We have a government right now about to go out of business again, shut down, because they cannot agree on how to balance the budget in seven years.
	Now, if you look at the size of the debt and what the debt is going to do in terms of the debt service, And the financial disaster that we're all headed for, that nobody even wants to talk about except Ross Perot briefly during the presidential campaign.
	He knows what's happening.
	So do a lot of other people.
	It is inevitable, and we're sitting here and arguing about a few dollars in the year 2002, one way or the other.
	It's absolutely ridiculous.
	So, economically, we're headed off a cliff, and they're sitting here and arguing about virtual pennies in years.
	And the public is completely consumed with things like an O.J.
	trial.
	Well, I was, but it's gone now.
	Okay, alright, well thanks a lot.
	You're welcome.
	Enjoy your program.
	Thank you.
	Um, militarily, we won the Cold War, and now we are doing what?
	We're going to have troops in Bosnia, the Golan Heights next?
	Maybe we could go insert some troops.
	In fact, why don't we?
	It's logical between the Cambodian people and the Khmer Rouge.
	I'm sure there's a zillion other hotspots we could get into if we wanted to.
	You look at the news, you look at social behavior in this country, and if you don't see a quickening, as it were, then you're blind.
	I'm just an observer.
	You know, I'm just a talk show host.
	I don't pretend to be more.
	I'm not more.
	If I have expertise, it is because I concentrate so heavily every day on international and national news.
	And I've been watching events over many, many years, and there is no question about it.
	It is quickening.
	What is it?
	Where is it headed?
	I'm not a philosopher.
	I'm not a religious icon of any sort.
	I don't have those answers.
	About as close as I can come to giving you a sense of where I feel we are is my old airplane analogy.
	You know, the aircraft going across the Pacific Ocean in the old days of the reciprocal engine aircraft.
	And, uh, you can only carry so much fuel, and there was a little red light in the cockpit that comes on and simply says, point of no return.
	Now, that doesn't mean the plane is gonna crash.
	What it does mean is you now have only enough fuel to go on to your destination.
	You can't turn around now and go home.
	You'll go into the water if you do that and crash.
	For sure.
	So, I think humanity's little red light came on some time ago.
	In the cockpit of the ship of state.
	How's that?
	And we are now headed to whatever is going to come next.
	I don't know what that is going to be.
	I just know that is where we're going.
	I know it is insufficient and I'm giving you a feeling more than I am facts.
	I can document the speed and acceleration of events, but beyond that it is speculation regarding where we're going.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi, yeah, I had a question.
	I missed last night's show, and I would really like to hear the facts sent to you by Gordon Michael Scallion in entirety, if you could do it.
	Um, I guess I could do that.
	I'd love to hear it.
	You would, huh?
	Yeah.
	Alright, well, I'll see what I can do.
	Okay, thanks a lot.
	Where are you calling from?
	From Vancouver, Washington.
	Vancouver.
	Alright, thank you.
	Um... One more time, huh?
	Dear Art, as you are aware, Japan's Kuriel Islands were hit with a magnitude 8.0 earthquake this week.
	How the hell do you pronounce those?
	It ought to be Curiel Islands, I guess.
	There was an 8.0 earthquake.
	He goes on, This is the first of four events I have predicted for the time frame beginning December of 95, And he did predict it, and you can check it in the Earth Changes Report of March of 95, and it signals the beginning of my third forequake scenario for the year.
	Events will now progress quickly.
	On Friday, December 8, 1995, I'm going to be releasing a press and media update to this prophecy, including potential events I see occurring in the U.S.
	As part of this scenario.
	I promise to keep you informed on any updates and I will send you the latest release on Friday the 8th at 9 a.m.
	Eastern Time.
	Means I'll get it at 6 o'clock in the morning.
	I regret my health is such.
	I cannot appear on your program due to its late air time.
	Five years of visions has taken its toll.
	I can, if you wish, though, discuss the update for up to an hour with you by phone at 10 a.m.
	or 2 p.m.
	Eastern on the 8th, which, if appropriate for you and your listeners, could then be rebroadcast on your Friday night, Saturday morning show.
	I do not wish to alarm anyone, but I sense we are close to major geological events occurring in the U.S.
	and elsewhere.
	Since both of my earlier four quake scenarios have occurred in sequence And on time, I can only assume the potential now exists, the complete four quake scenario which has just begun may now occur.
	Even if the percentages of such an event occurring were low, I would still feel that everyone in high-risk areas should be prepared.
	No different than if a hurricane warning were posted.
	I pray the visions I am seeing are wrong.
	And if it should turn out to be so, those who prepared will be better prepared for when it does occur.
	The scientific community and myself are no longer so far apart in our predictions.
	The only difference between us is the time frame and extent of damage.
	Sincerely, Gordon Michael Scallion.
	So, there you are.
	That's it.
	And I will do an interview with him in the morning.
	Hopefully.
	Everything goes okay.
	And I will have that for you tomorrow night.
	And I may combine it with about a 13 or 14 minute talk I had with Stan Dale last night.
	they go together you will see very well indeed.
	Alright, back to the phones.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	I do, Art.
	I do?
	Okay.
	You wanna know a little bit about the, uh, Saturday Night Special stuff?
	Sure.
	Uh, you remember the, uh, 1968 Gun Control Act?
	Yes.
	Well, when they first brought that out, they had some silly thing they put in there about that they could not import guns, handguns, that is, if they were below a certain size.
	If the height and length restrictions, in other words, if it wouldn't fit inside a, if it would fit inside a certain box, it was too easily concealed, And therefore not considered particularly useful for sporting purposes.
	Could I bring up a point?
	Yes, sir.
	In I don't know how many states now, you can go down to your local police department.
	I now live in one of them.
	And you can get a concealed permit.
	You know, after you take a little course and learn a little bit and pay a little money, you get a concealed permit.
	Now, let's talk about the word Concealed.
	If you have a permit for a concealed weapon, what do you want to do with it?
	You want to hide it, right?
	Correct?
	Of course.
	That was one of the beautiful points of the law, you see.
	Just because you couldn't import the gun, doesn't mean you couldn't import the part and then assemble it here.
	I see.
	So that was one thing they could do.
	But my point is, they're trying to pass a law here that will obviate another law.
	If you have a law that says you can have a concealed weapon, but it's got to be big, then you can't conceal it.
	You know what one of the other perverse things that happened from one of the recent laws we had?
	The Brady Law and the magazine ban and things like that?
	Yes.
	So now they've started redesigning all these guns that usually came with the high-capacity magazines.
	They say, well, if we can't stick more shells in it, We'll either use bigger shells or make the guns smaller so they're more easily concealed.
	So how do you think the anti-gunners feel about that when they realize they've figuratively shot themselves in the foot again?
	Yeah, so many of their arguments fall flat and it would be hard to be on that side, to be an anti-gunner, to argue things that simply don't make sense.
	Well, they never had to depend on logic.
	You already know that.
	I mean, I've researched this.
	And yet, sir, you really have to ask yourself, then how do they have so much success?
	Well, put it this way.
	I read one study that said they figure with all the free editorials and articles that are written with an anti-gun slant, that it adds up to about a half a billion dollars in free advertising that That the media generally donates is about what you're looking at.
	It's like sugarcoating everything that our esteemed, quote, president says.
	In other words, if they sugarcoat anything or slant it a certain way, to me, that should count as a bias that we have no counterbalance for.
	And so, consequently, we're left with a little budget.
	Did you realize that the one main group, Handgun Control Incorporated, collect more donations based on the lives they just
	continually use well maybe they're going to be could be uh... depending on
	remembers for a supreme court justice on pornography said
	well i can't define it but i know what when i see it maybe that's
	what you end up with uh... with a saturday night special one of the ugly little cheap little gun that's a saturday
	night special well here a while back i wrote a letter that i was
	intending to send to our local anti-gun newspaper but it never did get sent
	but uh...
	i did make some of the same point there And it pretty well, but it said that it had to do, let me see, where did I find it?
	It had something to do with the, uh, about dangerously inappropriate military looks, for example.
	Like when they talk about the assault weapons?
	Yes.
	You know, in other words, to me, and, uh... Multiple flash things and, uh... And such a thing as excess magazine capacity.
	In other words... No, I've got it, sir.
	I've got it, sir.
	I've got it.
	I've got it.
	Thank you very much.
	Magazines that would hold over 10 rounds and so forth and so on.
	The whole thing is so idiotic.
	Saturday Night Special.
	I mean, what is... I can't wait to see a real description of the Saturday Night Special.
	Does this mean that we would disallow people who don't make a lot of money to have guns?
	It'll be cool to buy a Glock if you want to blow 800 bucks or something.
	But if you want to go buy a cheap gun, you can't have one of those.
	So, the poor people then are economically deprived of a right to protect themselves?
	The whole argument stinks.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi Art, this is Dan in Reno.
	Hello Dan, you're on the wrong line.
	You're not east of the Rockies.
	Yeah, I'm close.
	Call us toll free at 1-800-618-8255.
	You're not allowed to put your last name on the air!
	but uh... you know i'll put your last name on the air uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... anyway let's just
	suffice to say you're damn in detroit
	How's that?
	OK.
	All right, Dan, what's on your mind?
	Yeah, I'll go.
	First time caller of the line, you're on the air.
	Good evening, Mr. Bell.
	Hello.
	I'm finally glad to get a hold of you.
	Yes.
	And I wanted to say thank you very much for finally admitting on the air that you're a selfish pig.
	I've been waiting for years to call you.
	Well, sir, it was just you I had in mind when I said it.
	I knew it would please you.
	My name is Jack.
	I'm calling from Olympia.
	Okay, Jack.
	I've been seduced by your voice for these three years I've been listening to you.
	I'm a lightweight.
	I don't usually make it to the late morning hours.
	It was good to hear that finally from you.
	Well, Jack, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
	And you're really right, and I'm really right, too.
	And I don't mind admitting it.
	I do love America.
	And I don't want to share it.
	Not in my lifetime, anyway.
	So I'm going to sell this tape.
	We'll be back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from December 7th, 1995.
	This is a list of songs from the album.
	Tonight's program originally aired December 7th, 1995.
	Actually, the largest live overnight talk show in America.
	241 affiliates nationwide.
	Alright, in a moment, the world of psychic spying.
	Major Ed Daines, U.S.
	Army, retired, has decided to go public.
	I've got a fax here from Norio Hayakawa about him.
	We'll touch on that.
	And then we'll talk with a major in a moment.
	stay right where you are on november twenty eighth nightline did a show on something
	called remote viewing
	which is uh... sort of a psychic expression and uh... it is said to mean i guess that you can look
	through somebody else's eyes
	and in essence spy uh... as in reading their mind
	It seemed an odd, a very odd thing for Nightline to do, actually, in view of the breaking Bosnia story at the time.
	Onorio Hayakawa has sent me a fax about a man named Major Ed Dames, U.S.
	Army, retired.
	And he helped, apparently, set up the U.S.
	government's psychic spy operations.
	And he says that not everything Nightline said was accurate.
	Not only that, but they barely touched the surface of what really is going on, and here he is, uh, Major Ed Dames.
	Uh, Major, can you hear me?
	Yes, I can.
	Can you hear me?
	I hear you just fine.
	You're not on a speakerphone, are you?
	Uh, I won't be in a moment.
	How's that?
	Oh, much better.
	Okay.
	Much better.
	Uh, good.
	Now, um, is this roughly accurate?
	In other words, did you, in essence, help some part of the government help set up the whole Operation that is still, I guess, ongoing?
	It is no longer.
	I was both the operations officer and the training officer for the unit.
	It was originally an Army unit in 1978.
	It evolved, was passed to DIA in the mid-1980s, and ended up For about, oh, three or four months under the auspices of CIA, but only a shadow of its former self.
	Major, how did you come to be involved, if we might know briefly, to even begin thinking about forming this?
	Do you yourself have some sort of psychic power, or were you simply in charge of the project to gather together those who allegedly did?
	I'm about as psychic as a rock.
	my job at the at very high levels of intelligence in the nineteen
	internally nineteen nine the early nineteen eighties about nineteen eighty eighty
	one wanted to orchestrate the penetration of high-value and uh...
	foreign intelligence project and uh... to with that
	uh... foreign missile delivery systems nuclear weapons systems biological and
	chemical warfare programs to penetrate those together intelligence on them
	There were some of those targets that, by hook or by crook, using agents or satellites or special operations units, short of an act of war, I could not answer the mail, so to speak.
	And so, as a tactic of desperation, I turned to earlier CIA studies And to work that was being done by an operating U.S.
	Army unit using people, natural psychics.
	Joe McMoneagle, who you might have seen the other night on Nightline, was one of those naturals to help me solve problems or give me some type of handle.
	On the problems I was faced with.
	Very intractable problems.
	That was not my primary job.
	you thought this this idea was birthed from your brain that in other words you
	weren't uh... brought in and sat down by some colonel or general and said well
	here is your next assignment major you're going to put this unit together that was not my that
	was not my primary job i put together an effective operating for but the unit
	in fact and its original prime form was already operating in the late
	nineteen seventies
	using natural there was a uh...
	It evolved into something much more powerful later.
	We can talk about that.
	All right.
	What disinformation was most apparent to you in the Nightline program?
	In other words, as I said earlier in the introduction, it seemed very odd they did a show on this right in the middle of the Bosnian thing.
	Very odd.
	I mean, it popped out of nowhere.
	I think it's a really damaged control.
	There are elements of Congress, certain Congressmen, who were involved in supporting the project, and the CIA itself, to avoid embarrassment, wanted to do some damage control.
	I think that was one element.
	I am not sure about that, about their agenda.
	What I am sure about are two points that were erroneous.
	Ted Koppel stated that, or attempted to ascertain, that the CIA statement of spending $11 to $20 million on the program was real.
	That is not in fact correct.
	Stargate, the remnants of the collection group, the intelligence collection group, That was a research project.
	The $11 to $20 million that the CIA says it spent was not on operational, that is an intelligence collection element.
	It was on research funds, research monies, an attempt to establish the validity of technical remote viewing.
	That's my term.
	That's what my company uses.
	And not on intelligence collection.
	That's one point.
	The second point is that Stargate was only the last six months to two years of the program, and only consisted of three remote viewers that worked for the government.
	One, who I trained, and was an excellent remote viewer.
	The other two were naturals, and they were simply tarot card readers that the agency found somewhere, and that were essentially the concubines of a couple of congressmen.
	I'm sorry.
	Well, that's quite all right.
	You say whatever you want.
	How effective is remote viewing?
	A lot of people don't even know what remote viewing is.
	A lot of the audience doesn't.
	They probably didn't see Nightline.
	What is it and how effective actually is it?
	Let me give you some background.
	The reason that those of us in Army Intelligence in the 80s could not use natural psychics was that natural psychics, when they were on target, they were really on the best of the best.
	And there were about five or six of them in the United States.
	But when they were off target, they were really off.
	And it was that lack of consistency that disallowed them from being used on operations, in support of operations where deadly force would be used or where life or death situations prevailed.
	Sure, but I'm sure you had to crunch numbers and they demanded numbers.
	I mean, how else do you prove it?
	They're right X number percent of the time and wrong That was not my job to print numbers.
	There were two aspects of this program.
	It's important to distinguish that.
	Two parallel programs.
	One was a research side of the house that was out in the open.
	That's the kind of thing that was being discussed by Keith Harari and Dale Graff the other night.
	But there was another unit that was very, very secret.
	And that was the unit for which I was operations officer and training officer.
	We were actually the intelligence collectors.
	We did not have to be politically correct.
	That is, to crunch numbers.
	To validate the existence of the phenomenon in the eyes of the U.S.
	Army and people who own the project at DOD level, the research had to continue in order to justify the continued expenditure of funds for the operational element of which I led.
	What has made you decide to go public about this?
	A number of things, not the least of which is that the taxpayers spent a lot of money on the development of this program, and I'll talk about what I mean by that.
	Did we waste our money?
	No, you did not waste your money.
	My company is now helping federal authorities find the Unabombers, and we'll be very successful at doing that.
	That'll be proof of the pudding.
	But that came about from a lot of hard work and a part of U.S.
	Army officers that And a brilliant discovery in 1983 by a man, Ingo Swann, a natural psychic who lives in New York City, who discovered a structured way of how the unconscious mind communicates with conscious awareness.
	How to tap into collective unconscious, if you will, sort of like an automated database, the same way one would search out a database.
	How to allow the unconscious mind to do that and communicate the conscious awareness, detailed, very accurate information, while suppressing imagination, being able to train someone to distinguish between his or her imagination and the data that is associated with a target, a person, a place, a thing or an event, and how to suppress one's uh... potentially to analyze the data report downloading
	from collective unconscious raw
	perceptual information in a very structured way and when you say target you mean a
	specific individual
	what i mean is a person a polite information about a person
	a plate i think an object or any event
	the reconciliation reconstruct an event using these techniques
	what happened in a clip uh...
	and that that would be interesting How does one, if there's a way to explain it, teach somebody with these powers to delineate between their own imagination and what is being remotely viewed?
	That would be quite a trick.
	That was part and parcel of the breakthrough discovery made by Ingo Swann, the person who was a contractor, the natural psychic who was contracted by the U.S.
	government, the Army in this case.
	That was part of his discovery at Stanford Research Institute in 1983.
	He had been there for a number of years and had been the guinea pig of the American Society for Parapsychological Research for many years.
	An extremely gifted natural psychic who turned his attention on himself and said, how am I doing this?
	And was able to put together a model for how he himself, as a naturally gifted psychic, was communicating his unconscious to his conscious
	awareness.
	When he put together this model, which is a set of protocols, behavioral protocols that
	I teach and that he taught me, we are able to discriminate, to teach ourselves how to
	distinguish imagination all the time from what we call the signal, that is the data
	that is associated with our target.
	So the signal is just sort of a part of the overall noise level?
	The signal is that little weak voice, if you will, that is associated with the target as
	opposed to our own background noise, the day-to-day, moment-to-moment conscious noise that we have
	in our conscious mind.
	Is there a way, or you may not want to, and I don't want to push into it, but is there a way to briefly describe to us the methods, the methodology you use?
	Yes, I'll give you an overview.
	The course is a nine-day, very intensive course, so I'll skip a lot, including lectures.
	Basically, we acquire a target.
	We are able to turn our conscious attention and our unconscious mind to the target via a series of stages.
	It takes about 20 minutes for us, as remote viewers, to go through these stages to a point where we can accurately begin to perceive Correctly, elements about a target, a person, place, a thing or an event.
	There are six stages.
	Each one is tantamount to increasingly greater target contact.
	This is done in a state of high attention.
	It's not like the old days where we used altered states, laid down in a bed in a dark room, sort of like a stream of consciousness.
	This is a very structured technique.
	The remote viewer is sitting at a desk with a ream of white paper in front of him or her and a pen.
	Using these protocols, they first perceive a target.
	They're not told what the target is.
	They're only given a random number.
	Their unconscious mind is taught to do all the work.
	They perceive a target first as a gestalt of information, kind of a thought ball, if This is elaborated on the paper in a certain way.
	The next stage is sensory perceptions, where they elaborate, they download, they objectify in words and sketches the colors, the textures, the smells and tastes, the sounds, the temperatures and the dimensions that are present at the site.
	They write those words down and it's done in an order of about four seconds.
	Think of a metronome in front of you where you're moving very rapidly Writing down these percepts.
	The next stage is kinesthetic target contact where they do some cursory sketching of the target.
	The next stage, stage four, is where they begin to make judgments about the data and write down things like people, chairs, meetings, those kinds of things.
	Yes.
	Anyway, we proceed along using these protocols in a very structured manner.
	We're up to the point where we can do accurate, very accurate drawings, distances, directions, vectors of a target.
	We can do clay models of a person, a place, a facility, those kinds of things, an object.
	For instance, right now we're modeling for a federal agency the next set of bombs that the Unabomber is making to use against civilians.
	Wow.
	So that kind of thing.
	That's what my company, SciTech, is doing now.
	At SciTech, or in that government work you did.
	Was there ever any research into whether the target at any point becomes aware in any way or of any change, discomfort, probing, aware in any way that he or she is a target?
	If the target happens to be a natural psychic, somebody that's very gifted, A very gifted naturalist.
	We all have this faculty.
	It's innate.
	It just has to be trained to be useful.
	And there was no structure or grammar, if you will, until the discovery was made.
	If a trained remote viewer or a natural psychic happens to be the target, then sometimes they are aware that they're being targeted.
	But it's fairly rare.
	We go in the back door.
	If our target is a person, Saddam Hussein or Abu Midal or a terrorist, We go in the back door, so to speak.
	We can be in their mind, in their dreams, and they will never be consciously aware that they're being targeted.
	Major, is it possible to, beyond reading somebody, in essence, or remote viewing... I don't know what you mean by reading, actually.
	Well, intuitively reading through them in the remote viewing process.
	What I'm asking is, is it possible to go beyond that and actually control another mind?
	We have never been able to do that.
	Our Soviet counterparts, the KGB team known as the Extra Sensors, that's the Russian term, they attempted those kinds of things, mostly unsuccessfully.
	They tried to stop hearts by experimenting with frogs, stopping frogs' hearts and attempting to move up the ante.
	But they were fairly unsuccessful.
	We never attempted anything like that.
	And as far as I know, we wouldn't be able to do it.
	I would not engage in that kind of thing.
	It's a passive act.
	It collects information and downloads it very accurately.
	Major, this is just conjecture, but do you think that this ability, apparent innate ability in some, Is something that we are coming to in the process of evolution or something that is long forgotten and simply being resurrected by people like you?
	Well, I'm speculating.
	When I say this, and it's my personal opinion, I think it's a birthright.
	I think it was forgotten somewhere way back there, centuries or perhaps millennia ago.
	That's what I believe to be true.
	It has been a periodic, cyclic interest since the mid-1800s.
	Now I think it's going to stick this time.
	Well, the military intelligence people seem to be prepared to say, in essence, we're turning it over to the private sector.
	I assume they meant people like you.
	But if this was so effective for the military, I can't imagine the intelligence folks casting it off to the private sector.
	Well, I've been involved in a lot of very, very deep, dark, black projects in my career, and I have to say that I have never dealt or been assigned to a unit that has suffered more ostracism, been looked upon with more fear, more jealousy than that unit that I was assigned to.
	I can imagine that.
	And it was in the late 70s.
	It was associated with the occult.
	That gave it a bad name.
	And no matter how good we performed, there were others that, senior officers, not just Army, senior civilian officials who were scared to death by this.
	They did not want to hear that it was true.
	When the head of the Presidential Foreign Intelligence Corps at the Pythiad was briefed, he went sheet white and said, man should not know these things until he dies.
	So you can imagine what we were up against.
	I really can.
	Majors, stand by.
	You've got about a four or five minute break.
	Stay right there.
	We'll be back to you.
	My guest is Major Ed Daines, U.S.
	Army, retired.
	Put together the team, one of the teams actually was the leader of that program that you saw on Nightline.
	A lot of inaccuracies there, and we will probe further in a moment.
	You're listening to ArcBell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 7th, 1995.
	Am I the only one?
	No, I'm not.
	I'm not alone.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 7th, 1995.
	Good morning.
	My guest is Major Ed Dames, U.S.
	Army, retired, put together a project.
	Actually, several projects.
	Uh, that involve remote viewing.
	It is a fascinating, fascinating topic.
	He's in the private sector now, and at the moment looking for the Unabomber.
	We'll ask him about that in a second.
	Back now to Major Ed Dames.
	Uh, Major, I assume, uh, publicly having announced that you're looking for the Unabomber, you, uh, check your mail carefully.
	I have certain built-in controls, yes.
	I'm sure you would.
	Are you getting close to the Unabomber?
	We've got the principals, yes.
	They're concentrated in the South Bend, Indiana area.
	I mentioned that publicly once, but for further details we have to provide the law enforcement agency.
	I understand.
	Did they come to you or did you go to them?
	I don't know, Mr. Bell.
	No, no, no, no, you're the agency's president.
	It was a mutual agreement.
	Mutual agreement.
	Where major can this go?
	In other words, as these abilities continue to develop, where do you think the ceiling
	might be?
	I don't know, Mr. Bell.
	I really don't know.
	It would be a world without secrets.
	What kind of a world that would be, I think it might be a better world.
	But I can only speculate, as can you.
	It's a profound tool.
	I understand why it scares people.
	I don't want somebody in my mind.
	I understand that.
	It would be a brave new world.
	And again, I civilianized this to use it against There are practical solutions, but these are outside of law
	enforcement, too.
	We can look at the causes of illnesses and the treatments, those kinds of things.
	Lots of science applications, things that we used before in the military, as a matter
	of fact.
	Where it's going, sky's the limit.
	Sky's the limit.
	Here's a fact.
	Ask your guest, Art, to comment on the suspicious circumstances surrounding the death of Ingo Swann and others who were involved in the original projects.
	Ingo Swann is alive and kicking as of this morning.
	Well, then I don't know where he got this.
	Were there any killed in the early projects?
	There was one death, but it was a heart attack.
	One of the remote viewers, a person using an altered state, had a weak heart and killed over in an operation.
	That was the only death that the project could record.
	Alright, from Variety Magazine, there was a soldier featured recently who had been shot in the head.
	Do you know about this man?
	Apparently shot in the head and developed psychic abilities after that.
	Worked on Saddam Hussein for a while.
	Then, I guess, in fact he was used against Saddam Hussein, they said, during the Gulf War.
	And his conscience began to bother him.
	Do you know anything about this?
	That soldier was my former vice president and he fabricated the complete story.
	He was shot in the head in Jordan on a training exercise.
	He was the safety officer for a gunnery practice, and he stood up in front of his men, and he was shot in the helmet.
	His Kevlar helmet took the round, and he had a headache for two days.
	That's the extent of that.
	I have fired him.
	He was dishonorably discharged from the U.S.
	Army.
	Less than honorable discharge in lieu of a court-martial, and I can't have people like that associated with SciTech.
	So, you've got to be very careful, don't you?
	And I assume you go through a tremendous screening process in trying to determine... How do you, by the way, determine if somebody is genuine?
	If I came to you and I said, look, I can read minds.
	I can see what others are doing.
	I already have that ability.
	How would you test me?
	I don't test you, I interview you, I can train anyone.
	What I'm looking for is someone who is going to use the skills because I am not going to
	invest nine long hard days of my time in someone who is not going to take this back and use
	it in their respective discipline whether that's medicine, we train doctors, scientists,
	musicians, you name it.
	We want to go back and use this in their profession to solve their own problems and to bootstrap
	their own disciplines.
	Some of them have written books.
	If you were to come to me as a natural psychic with that kind of a talent, I would first
	be leery that you had a big ego.
	If your ego was such that you've been told how good you were for many years, I'm going to need to break that down because you have to start from square one with me.
	Think if I were an NBA scout and I saw some kid in the inner city.
	Who could run rings around his peers with a basketball?
	Yes.
	If that kid was prepared to come with me and start from square one in a training camp, I know I can make an all-star out of him.
	But if he's not, then I can't do anything with that.
	Of the two possibilities, would you rather train the untrained and those who have a latent ability that you can bring out, or would you rather have somebody I've been training since 1983 and I think I split down the middle 50-50.
	About half of the people I have trained who have become all-stars rather than just mere professionals said they had no psychic ability to speak up and it turns out that they did and didn't know it and they were superb.
	I think only that it changes the way you look at the world, and that does have certain ramifications.
	and knew it, but were willing to toe the line and submit to the training protocols, which
	are rigorous.
	Is there a physical, psychological price somebody pays for doing this work?
	I think only that it changes the way you look at the world, and that does have certain ramifications.
	It does not empower you, but when you reach a point in training where you can stick your
	head metaphorically up above the cloud and see where you've been, where you're going,
	and your relationship to everything else around you for the first time, that is a fairly life-changing
	event.
	So yes, with regard to that, it does.
	All right.
	There's two sides to every story, and here's another side.
	Suppose I take your course.
	I become an all-star and I decide that I'm going to say target the head of Disney or ABC and I'm going to do this because I think there might be something going on and I find out there's going to be a merger and so I buy the right stock and I start making a lot of money with this power.
	Is that an improper use of the power?
	I prefer to call it skill than power.
	I can't be the judge of that.
	What I'm doing is training people to use this.
	Generally speaking, the more one uses it, for some strange reason, the more ethical one becomes.
	It has a spiritualizing quality to it.
	I don't know why that is, but it does.
	Yes, you could do that.
	It takes a lot of work to do that.
	It would take you a number of days to pull in the right amount of information, but yes, you would be able to do that.
	Would several people with this skill be more powerful than one?
	The way that we employ our company is the same way that we used it in the military mission mode.
	We have six to eight remote viewers working on important projects.
	That's the only way that we can guarantee, and we're the first in history to guarantee that psychically produced data will be dead on on a project.
	That's the only way we can achieve that degree of confidence factor.
	So it's not a matter of additional power, it's a matter of a cooperation so that i can easily corroborating data we we
	have built in control of half the viewing team had absolutely no idea
	what the target some have uh... just a modicum of target information so you've
	got a control group
	we have a control group yet uh...
	uh... how did you proceed from the military side of this
	to the privatized side of this you've got a company it does is kind of work what kind of clients be up other
	than law enforcement looking for the unabomber that sort of thing
	what might typically be a client of yours A lot of science, research and development types of
	companies who are interested in solutions to technical problems or perhaps a new drug, vaccines,
	those kinds of things.
	AIDS research?
	Yes, some AIDS research.
	We actually had almost landed a project to look at the origin of AIDS.
	Now, we have to be careful when we do something like this, too.
	AIDS is both a disease and a virus, so when you're searching the collective unconscious
	the way that we do it in a very rigorous systematic manner, if we are looking for the origin of
	the AIDS virus, we can go back 10,000, 40,000 years where it appeared to be a canine virus
	that jumped ship and became simian or monkey-born.
	But if we look for it, if we just target the topical idea of AIDS, then we see a number of, a couple decades ago, it's beginnings as a pandemic.
	So we have to be very careful about what we call queuing, those search terms.
	Alright, you keep using the term collective unconscious.
	Now, delineate that kind of work with a specific target.
	How do you collect information from the collective, and by that I assume you mean the world's unconscious?
	The global mind.
	Alright, there you are.
	Using the protocols that we use, we turn our conscious attention to a target.
	Our unconscious attention follows.
	Our unconscious attention is already immersed in this global mind.
	It's already there.
	It doesn't go anywhere.
	It simply turns and looks in a direction.
	Look, I'm using that term loosely.
	It focuses upon that specific area that we're interested in.
	I don't suppose you coined the phrase, think globally.
	No.
	Not me.
	Alright, I have had on my program, and will have on tomorrow night, somebody who claims great psychic powers and has documented them to a great degree, Gordon Michael Scalion.
	I've heard of him.
	You know the name?
	Yes.
	He has predicted accurately weather cycles, volcanic action, earlier in the year and in March, a series of earthquakes That he now believes may be culminating in a very, very large series of earthquakes soon.
	In your probing of the collective consciousness, do you run into anything like this?
	Yes, sir, we do.
	Can you tell me anything about what you found?
	In a general fashion, yes.
	In a general way, it appears that Over the years we've looked at these just as an experiment as a military team and compiled results.
	We perceived massive global weather changes that preclude growing crops.
	The vicissitudes of these weather changes will preclude growing crops the way we normally do.
	It will no longer be in North America at least.
	The crops will have to be grown in habitats that are controlled.
	A tremendous problem with epidemics and pandemics, diseases in third world countries, particularly because ozone, it appears that ozone, the ozone problem, is increasing the mutation rate, stressing the Earth's immune system, if you will, and causing microorganisms to mutate much faster than vaccines can be made to keep up with them, causing a lot of deaths.
	We're perceiving a bovine AIDS that kills a lot of babies.
	It's transmitted by the smadrophic growth hormone, the Dairy Men's Association.
	It's a needle that they use to inject this growth hormone to increase milk production.
	Yes.
	That also will transmit this bovine AIDS that will not affect adults as much as infants who lack the immune system to handle it.
	And actually, the situation gets grimmer after that.
	Grimmer.
	All right.
	I am not as sensitive anymore than anybody else, but I watch the news.
	I've done this show, you know, news-oriented program for 11 years now, this particular program.
	So every day I do homework and I watch the news.
	And I have come to coin or use a word called the quickening.
	I call it that.
	Whether it's economic, political, social, in every single area of human endeavor, events appear to be accelerating toward I don't know what, but I can just feel it, and so I've called it the quickening, and it kind of gone on.
	Do you feel what I feel?
	To me it's just the hair stands up on the back of my neck, the other shoe about to fall kind of feeling, the acceleration of events.
	Is there anything to that?
	I think we're in for a lot of character building opportunities, corporately and worldwide.
	One of my best remote viewers, I took the best and the brightest from the military team and employed them in my company.
	One of them is still on active duty with the Defense Intelligence Agency.
	He has an explanation, well actually he has a good description of what he and those of us on the team feel is happening. The Wankel engine, as you know, needs a
	governor on it. It's a rotary engine. It needs a governor because it starts to accelerate
	out of control and it explodes.
	He feels that the globe is in that sort of a modality now, it's accelerating out of control
	without the governor and then it's going to go bam. So I tend to agree with that.
	Most psychics, when you talk to them, will say, here is my prophecy, but it does not
	have to be.
	In other words, a change in human behavior will produce a change in the thread of time in the future.
	Do you subscribe to that?
	Many of my students who are scientists and doctors do subscribe to that.
	I'm more pessimistic by nature, having been a soldier for many years.
	I don't think we're going to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps.
	I think that it's a finger-in-the-dike approach to many things, including the ozone problem.
	So I disagree.
	I think the situation is going to get grim and that we will not, in fact, rise to the occasion.
	As you look into the collective unconscious, I, too, share that half-empty glass of water view with you, by the way.
	But I'm not sure what lies upon the other side.
	I simply know that like the airplane halfway across the Pacific in the old days, the little red light saying point of no return, that's already on for humanity.
	We are going to go on to whatever is next.
	I just don't know what is next.
	Maybe you do.
	I don't think that this is necessarily the forum to discuss that.
	It involves Things that we perceive in the out years and they're fairly esoteric and I don't want to really, as president of SciTech, talk about those things now because they are sort of off the wall.
	Something out there that's very exciting.
	However, we'll pay a heavy price as a world community to get there.
	Like I say, a lot of character building opportunities will be out there for our children and our grandchildren.
	Well, it's nice to know that we'll have grandchildren anyway.
	Some of us will, yes.
	Regarding actual physical Earth changes, geographic major Earth changes, are they coming?
	They are.
	That was a yes?
	That was a yes.
	Look, you've been really kind to come on the air with me this morning.
	You did it on very short notice.
	I want to give you an opportunity to plug your company.
	You want to plug it in some way?
	Oh, I think that our success on the Unabomber Project will probably do that for us, although I thank you for the opportunity.
	I have a training program where very few select people a year are accepted into our Beverly Hills training office for nine days an intensive one-on-one there's
	only one student per course and we teach these skills to those
	students if there are any of your listeners who think that they might want to do
	that they can communicate with me on and and so they could they could
	write you a letter and they could do they could in essence apply yes if they
	wanted to all right Well, Major, it's been a pleasure having you on the program.
	I appreciate your clearing up an awful lot of things that I didn't understand about the kind of work that you do.
	Yeah, I think also the point where the researchers are experiencing only 15 to 20 percent accuracy, those are untrained people in a laboratory environment.
	My corporate team has 80 percent to 90 percent accuracy at the end of three days.
	80 to 90 percent after three days?
	That's right.
	That's how effective... That's what your tax dollars paid for.
	That degree of effectiveness.
	As professional officers, we would not have stuck with something that was ineffective for that many years.
	This thing really worked.
	Well, in a way, though, what you're doing makes what Orwell predicted and wrote about pale by comparison.
	I wonder what kind of world Major Dame's world would be.
	It'd be a different place, that's for certain.
	Major, I want to thank you again.
	Thank you for being here.
	You take care.
	There you have it, everybody.
	That's Major Ed Dames of SciTech.
	He took it from the military into the private sector.
	And remember, Mr. Unabomber, he's checking his mail.
	We'll be back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from December 7th, 1995.
	This is a video of a man who was in a car accident in the United States.
	He was in a car accident in the United States.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from December 7th, 1995.
	You're just about to find out why this program is the kind of program it is.
	Hi everybody, I'm Art Bell.
	For the last hour, we interviewed Major Ed Daines, U.S.
	Army Retired.
	He set up the U.S.
	Army's U.S.
	Government's Spy, Psychic Spy Program, corrected and went far beyond ABC's Nightline Program, of November 28th.
	It's all about remote viewing and perhaps being inside the mind looking through the eyes of others.
	That was last hour.
	I just got a fax.
	I'll read it to you.
	Dear Mr. Bell, My name is Dr. Rod Lewis.
	I am director of the Network for Scientific Intelligence and the editor and publisher of NSI's periodical, The C.E.
	Chronicles.
	Two years ago, we published an expose on the government's use of psychics in intelligence operations.
	The project has recently received national attention, is now known as Stargate.
	We focused on the role of Major Ed Dames, president of the remote viewing company SciTech.
	Major Dames was instrumental in the development of this program along with Colonel John Alexander, now head of the non-lethal weapons program at Los Alamos National Labs and General Albert Stubblebine, former head of Army Intelligence Command, as with most stories of this genre, what you are hearing is only the tip of the proverbial iceberg.
	I have done a number of radio shows on the subject, would be happy to be a guest on yours.
	And so, without letting any grass grow, Under my tail end, I immediately phoned up Dr. Lewis.
	He's on the line.
	He'll be with us in a moment.
	Now we go to Houston, Texas, and Dr.
	Doctor, welcome.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning.
	I'm a little groggy.
	I did not have any intention of being on your show.
	Tonight.
	This morning, as you know.
	I know.
	Sleep until about one o'clock our time.
	So I'm still a little groggy.
	All right.
	Well, when you get a chance, grab a cup of coffee.
	Okay.
	Um, you heard the interview, I take it, um, probably in and out of sleep with the major.
	That's correct.
	Um, would you like to characterize what you heard?
	Do you think what you heard, uh, you would regard as general, uh, generally accurate?
	Sure.
	The information that has been brought forth before, uh, Recently on the Stargate Project.
	Now when we did our story, and let me just preface a little bit my history, I am the director of an organization called the Network for Scientific Intelligence.
	And basically what we do is we monitor what's generally called the black projects or gray projects.
	And what Mr. Dames has been involved in, we have been tracking for the last two years.
	And we did a expose about two years ago In our publication called the CE Chronicles, and it was all about remote viewing.
	Right.
	And we did get some attention.
	It wasn't widely recognized and published as it is now, but Tokyo Broadcasting did a complete series.
	They were doing a television show based loosely on Howard Blum's book out there, which he referred to a group of people called the Aviary.
	And oddly enough, Dale Graff being one of them, But to make a long story short we picked up on this story and developed it and learned some very interesting things and generally what's being said how this project Stargate is being characterized is fairly accurate although there were many things that for obvious reasons Mr. Dames
	Let's begin by defining Stargate.
	What is Stargate, besides a very intriguing name that reminds me of the movie I saw by the same name?
	Well, I find that very odd that they did name it Stargate, because this is something, of course, that the movie didn't come out until two years ago or a year and a half ago.
	And this was a project that was started back in the 70s, this remote viewing project.
	But essentially Stargate was the military, the DOD, Department of Defense's version of what Mr. Dames has taken and is doing privately now, which is using psychics, natural psychics, and then training them to perform remote viewing.
	And originally all the applications were of a military nature.
	However, while they were performing the remote-viewing exercises, they claimed that they were being blocked by external agents.
	I'm not sure exactly what that means, but they alluded to something to do with UFOs.
	Oh!
	That was not mentioned by the Major.
	Well, for obvious reasons.
	He said that it could adversely affect his company, and he even used the term of it being off the wall.
	That's true.
	But let me just read something that we had quoted here in our article called the Aviary, the Aquarium, and Eschatology.
	And for those who don't know what eschatology is, that's just a politically correct term for the end of the world, which apparently the National Security Establishment, for obvious reasons, is very interested in.
	But anyway, we quote here, he claims that SciTech has performed these projects to date.
	Now these are some of the projects that SciTech was engaged in.
	He calls these things Enigma Penetration.
	The Tunguska Event.
	Enigma Penetration.
	Soviet Phobos 2 Spacecraft Imaged Anomaly.
	That has to do with the Phobos 2 probe that went dead outside of Mars orbit.
	Projected Technologies.
	Advanced Deep Space Propulsion Systems.
	Clandestine Iraqi Biological Weapons Facilities.
	A relook at the KAL Flight 007 shootdown, atmospheric ozone depletion, projected consequences and remedial technologies, and the St.
	Exuperty crash site.
	And we go on to say here that Mr. Dane's also made statements regarding UFOs during a phone conversation with Dan Smith.
	It says, remote viewing of many UFO events are blocked by an external agency.
	It says UFO type, viewing encounters, two types of entities, aliens and angels.
	Aliens are more physical, with quasi-physical type craft.
	They are in trouble and need our resources, which they take.
	And if humans are involved, they receive mental impressions to confuse what is really going on.
	And this has to do with the alien abduction phenomenon, I think he's referring to this.
	Doctor, in what area is your doctrine?
	My doctorate is in dentistry and I also have a master's degree in psychology.
	What in the world led you from that to this?
	Well, actually, of course my background is virtually all research-oriented.
	I did practice clinical dentistry for about 10 years and I decided to take a one-year sabbatical to do some research and writing because I've always Had a passion and love for journalism and I just kind of fell into this thing and my life has never been the same since.
	Alright, you're right.
	He only, and very carefully, sort of confirmed between the lines a lot of what Gordon Michael Scallion has been saying regarding earth changes.
	He just rendered a simple yes and To a great amount of pain before any gain for the human race, or even the end.
	This is an area where you apparently know more or are willing to talk about more than he was.
	Is that correct?
	That's correct.
	So talk.
	Well, it appears that the National Security Establishment, and I'm talking about all the I.A.
	agencies, the CIA, the D.I.A.
	The rest of them, the Office of Naval Intelligence, etc., etc., believe it or not, are very interested in this, I guess as you term it, the quickening.
	I do, yes.
	Their reasoning for this is that the end of the world is a matter of national security, so they're very interested in what's coming up around the pike.
	I'm not sure national security even serves what will occur properly.
	Of course it's national security.
	It's the world security.
	It's the end.
	And if you look at what has happened over recent history, you see an inflection point right about 87, 88, 89.
	You had the collapse of the Berlin Wall.
	You had a complete change in strategic policy.
	You've had a shift away from Uh, international strategic problems between the United States and the Soviet Union to a more cooperative environment.
	And I think what happened is, at that inflection point in 88 or 89, their models completely changed.
	And this was partly due to a new view, and it has to do with what they call chaos theory.
	And this was something that was promoted by James Glick in a book called Chaos, the Making of a New Science.
	And this completely changed perceptions, and I think what they learned through non-linear dynamics and chaos theory is that we are rapidly approaching a point because of our presence and our activity on Earth, I'm talking about human activity, that we have upset the balance of things to such a degree that we are moving from stability to chaos.
	And if you follow the theory of Gaia, Earth being sort of a conscious or living organism that it
	behaves much like an organism does and we are sort of parasites on a larger organism and
	only the parasites do one of two things, they kill the host or they exist in a symbiotic
	relationship.
	So if you look at human beings being about the size of viral particles to the Earth,
	we certainly are not in a symbiotic relationship.
	That only leaves one conclusion, and perhaps the Earth may be having what you could call an immune reaction to our presence.
	So I think that this model, this concept of Gaia, has really got the National Security Establishment very concerned, and they're doing everything within their power to learn more about this phenomenon.
	And I think that these things that we're seeing in terms of Natural catastrophes, the possibility of the outbreaks of plagues, cometary impacts, there's just a number of things that I think they see as possible scenarios and they're getting ready as quickly as possible and that's when we're seeing a very radical shift in our military operations and there's much going on in terms of
	We hear about the Patriot Movement, the militias being formed, and what they call the New World Order.
	And these people are very concerned, and how they're reading it is that the military is preparing for some sort of major change and major takeover of the population of the United States in response, possibly, to some sort of cataclysm.
	Would be a natural thing.
	In other words, we have organizations like FEMA, which so many people fear.
	But on the other hand, if there were a great natural catastrophe, if California popped off into the ocean along with a lot of the West or something of that order.
	Well, I had a hard time with that.
	When people were discussing the New World Order, they alluded quite a bit to this was a plot by the Illuminati or the Bilderbergers or different select groups of people who were out to take the world over.
	But my research indicates that this is more preemptive than anything.
	That they know something that we don't know.
	They know something of a catastrophic nature.
	That we don't know.
	That's right, and they're making preparations.
	All right, I've got you.
	Now, why the Nightline Show the other night?
	Why, in the middle of all the news about Bosnia, would Ted Koppel take time out and talk about and reveal the government's involvement in this sort of thing?
	And then sort of wrap it up by saying, well, We did, but we're not all that interested in it anymore.
	We're turning it over to the private sector.
	We're getting out of the biz, that sort of thing.
	What motivations do you see for that program?
	I mean, obviously, if it is as serious as you say, they're still very much into the thick of it.
	Right.
	Well, they can't unload it on us all at one time and just say, well, folks, we believe that California is literally going to slide off into the ocean.
	Like you said, what are you going to do with the 15 million people that would decide to evacuate California all at one time?
	I think what's happening is, in fact, we've seen a number of shows recently, and I catalog all these things, and I noticed in the past two years there have been five shows about a cometary impact.
	Yes.
	One was on The Simpsons, one was on Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman, one was on Ancient Prophecies, one was on Sliders, And I think there was something on NOVA, so there's been quite a bit of information given.
	Of course, they don't come out and say, this is the way it's going to happen, but they certainly are desensitizing us to the idea of some sort of catastrophe that may be looming in the near future.
	So, and that's only one possibility.
	You know, we've seen movies, we've seen the movie Outbreak.
	They talk about A massive plague being released of some type.
	As a matter of fact, it is interesting you would bring that up.
	I'm hearing stories about a new disease in Nicaragua.
	Exactly.
	I'm hearing stories about a new disease that is jumping from horses to humans in Australia.
	All kinds of weird building information in these areas.
	And I guess that goes back to your theory of Earth and us human beings as Leeches.
	Well, it's a parasite.
	Leeches are parasites.
	Non-symbiotic organisms.
	Yeah, there you go.
	But yeah, it's interesting that you should mention that because we followed that story about the Nicaraguan outbreak and they're not really sure what it is.
	They haven't identified it yet, but we have these hot spots around the world.
	We have the Ebola virus and In Zaire that popped up this past summer, and there's just a lot of things I think they're really worried about, and they're telling us about it in the form of books like Laurie Garrett's book, The Coming Plague, Richard Preston's book, The Hot Zone.
	We saw the movie Outbreak.
	And by the way, we have found that they alluded to this Operation Clean Sweep, which if there's any area of the United States that is biologically contaminated, they basically go with a A bomb of some type.
	It's not nuclear, but it's a fuel-air bomb.
	Fuel-air bomb.
	And wipe out.
	And that is true.
	We found out that there is such a thing as Operation Clean Sweep.
	There really is?
	Yes.
	So it wasn't just a movie?
	No, it wasn't.
	It was what I call fiction based on fact.
	That was one of the more frightening movies I'd ever seen, I thought, at the time that I saw it.
	And I guess it is, then, being discovered by the people doing the kind of work the major is doing and when they have, when they look into this collective consciousness and look down line a little bit, they're seeing something awful.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	And in fact, there is, um, there is a department within the CIA and I can't mention the person's name, but if anybody would like to speak with me about it, I can give you the person's name.
	He is the Director of Science and Technology, and he is a member of what we call the Aviary.
	What is that an acronym for?
	Well, it's not an acronym for anything.
	We just call them the Aviary because they all go by bird names.
	Some of the members of this group are Bruce McAbee, and he is known as Seagull, Al Putoff, which is Al, Dale Graff, which is Raven, Jack Verona, which we don't know what his bird name is, Richard Doty, that's a familiar name from Linda Moulton Howell.
	He's with AFOSI and met with Linda Moulton Howell at Kirtland Air Force Base.
	His name is Falcon.
	Christopher Green is Blue Jay.
	Robert Collins is Condor.
	Ernie Kellerhouse is Hawk.
	Scott C.B.
	Jones is Chickadee.
	And Bill Moore, we don't know his name either.
	And John Alexander is Pelican.
	And John Alexander, by the way, is also on the board of SciTech along with General Albert Stubblebine, who is the former head of ENSCOM.
	Incredible.
	Hold on just a moment.
	We'll be right back to you.
	Dr. Rod Lewis is with us.
	He's our guest.
	we'll be right back still somewhere in time on premier radio networks
	tonight an encore presentation of coast to coast am from december 7th 1995
	here it is oh
	so so
	so Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired December 7th, 1995.
	Top of the morning, everybody.
	We're interviewing Dr. Rod Lewis, Director of the Network for Scientific Intelligence and the editor and publisher of NSI's periodical, the C.E.
	Chronicles.
	He's responding in part to an interview we did last hour, subject remote viewing, and we are continuing along with that.
	Now, we may get the phone lines open this half hour, coming up shortly.
	All right, back now to Dr. Rod Lewis.
	Dr. Lewis, are you there?
	Yes, I am.
	All right, well, again, thank you for being up at this hour.
	Here's a fax.
	Referring to you, how does this guy know he's not dabbling in the occult?
	He seems to think it's some kind of high-tech.
	How does he know this?
	Isn't it just refined fortune-telling?
	Well, as a matter of fact, we were just going to comment on that because Ed Dames, or Major Dames, used the term occult, and he said that this scared a lot of people.
	He also alluded to that he was able to train these natural psychics using very specific techniques.
	Now, what we found was that these techniques are just a reconstitution of the black magic rituals used by Aleister Crowley.
	So it's black magic?
	Well, it arose by any other name, I guess you could say.
	Let me read something here.
	Now, it gets very complicated because a lot of this ties in To the psychotronics research that's going on at Los Alamos National Laboratory.
	Okay, but before you do, it's a non-trivial distinction.
	In other words, black magic, the occult, the dark forces, to the people in the audience right now listening who are religious, and there are many, it is a non-trivial distinction.
	Now, is it science, or is it really the dark side?
	And if it is the dark side, then the facts Makes a good point.
	Well, I think it's science that we don't understand, and we're dealing with something, unfortunately, like Madame Curie, when she discovered radioactivity back in the 1800s.
	Unfortunately, we did a lot of things with radiation we shouldn't have, and we learned through a lot of trial and error how dangerous it can be because we don't understand the true nature of what we're working with.
	And I think that's what we're dealing with here, is we're probably playing the part of the Sorcerer's Apprentice, and we may be dabbling in something that we don't have a full grasp and understanding of the gravity in the things that we're dealing with.
	Well, it's never stopped us in the past.
	Well, it never has, and unfortunately, we pay a very high price for that type of error that people tend to engage in.
	But what I wanted to read, again, was another quote from the article that we did called the Aviary of the Aquarium and Eschatology.
	And this is something, a letter that a researcher by the name of Ray Bochet received from two workers out at Los Alamos National Laboratory that's working on this psychotronics research, and it has to do with SciTech remote viewing and the rest of this.
	He says, divulging this information was the result of a moral dilemma.
	When these two individuals, both Christians, became alarmed at the course of their research efforts into psychotronic weapons, Figures.
	Figures.
	Every science fiction movie that one can ever see of this sort always is in that realm.
	an obsessive effort the contact an attempt to control
	what they referred to as not human intelligences or in a child
	and a harness these in a child for military
	and intelligence purposes figures every uh... every science fiction movie
	that one can ever see of the sort always is in that realm in other words they've always got the
	the dark colonel who is trying to take some sort of new science in
	apply it to a weapons system And I guess it's the nature of the military to do that kind of thing.
	So whether it's a movie or real life, it does happen.
	Well, that's what our organization is all about.
	We work very closely with the Stephen Aftergoods Federation of American Scientists.
	And we're very concerned about these new discoveries.
	We believe we're on the brink of some major discoveries in the area.
	What they generally refer to as the new physics, which will give us a very good understanding of how parapsychological phenomenon work.
	Unfortunately, it's being acquired and being implemented by the military establishment, much for untoward purposes, in my opinion.
	You said new physics.
	Tetrahedral?
	That's part of it.
	Tetrahedral physics is one aspect.
	Chaos theory, nonlinear dynamics.
	A lot of theories based on David Bohm, the holographic universe, the book that was written by Michael Talbot, and we're beginning a quantum physics that has to do with quantum and tetrahedral physics.
	All right, I've got a fax here, unsigned, not surprising.
	Dear Mr. Bell and guest, I worked on the remote sensing project at UCSD where they were working, looking at the neural networks to operate jet fighting equipment.
	Does that sound like a project you've heard about?
	Well, this is something that we've worked on in our spare time.
	We have a neural network artificial intelligence program.
	These are basically software programs that can teach themselves.
	They can learn through example, learn by training.
	And yes, this is something that's part of this new physics.
	Would you be willing to take a few phone calls from listeners?
	Sure.
	All right, we'll get to that in a second.
	And one more question for you.
	Can you ask your guest About the Tunguska, is it?
	Tunguska incident?
	Was it really a Tesla experiment gone bad?
	I don't believe it was.
	My research indicates that Tunguska was an impactor.
	Go back and read Duncan Steele's book, Rogue Asteroids, and Doomsday Comet, and he explains the Tunguska event, and I have to tend to agree with his assessment that it was an impactor.
	An asteroid or something, comet.
	Alright, let's try the phones and see where we go.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Rod Lewis.
	Hello.
	No, you're not.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Rod Lewis.
	First time callers, area 702-727-1222.
	Would you please turn your radio off, number one.
	Okay, good.
	Tim, only your first name, and where are you calling from?
	I'm calling from Phoenix, Arizona.
	Phoenix, alright.
	Yeah, I just wanted to talk to the doctor.
	Go ahead.
	Yes, I just wanted to know what some of his qualifications were.
	Well, we went over that at the beginning of the hour.
	Yeah, and I'd be happy to review them.
	I have a bachelor's degree in biology and chemistry.
	I have a master's degree in clinical psychology.
	I attended the University of Texas Dental School at San Antonio.
	Graduated 1983, practiced to 1991.
	I'm a full-time journalist now.
	I'm a member of the Federation of American Scientists, the National Association of Science Writers, and investigative editors and reporters.
	That ought to do it.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Rod Lewis.
	Hello.
	Yeah, excuse me, I've got to dive at the radio.
	Dive at the radio, alright.
	Always dive at the radio, folks.
	Right away, when you get on the air, we have a delay system here.
	Hello again.
	Yes, where are you, sir?
	Madison, Wisconsin.
	Alright.
	Well, what I'm wondering about is, if alien beings or out-of-the-body entities are capable of getting into the picture, how do we know we're not being fed wrong information?
	And I'll get us the answer.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	Sure.
	Good question.
	How do we know... How are we able to verify the validity of the information we get through these kinds of sources?
	Well, we're not.
	And that's part of the problem is that, as Mr. Daines pointed out, these people aren't always correct.
	Also, if you talk with people who claim to be victims of the alien abduction phenomenon, they are fed usually constant streams of information, particularly about eschatology or the end of the world, and many of these events never come true.
	So you're right.
	There doesn't seem to be any consistency in the veracity of what people are being told as far as Uh, their communications, or whatever they're engaged in.
	Okay, the retired major didn't seem inclined to go much into the UFO aspect, and I understand that.
	You are.
	Yes, I am.
	Your qualifications are very impressive.
	Your academic background, very impressive.
	Dr. John Mack at Harvard has sort of been dragged across the bottom of the ship academically for his Look-see into these sorts of areas.
	Aren't you afraid of being barnacled?
	Well, no, not really, because I'm not really affiliated any longer with any academic institution, and I'm not in clinical practice, so I'm not sure what they could do to me other than maybe criticize my sanity, but... Well, colleagues can level some pretty vicious criticism.
	Sure, and I'm always happy to discuss the matter with them, and I don't I don't have all the answers, Art, that's for sure.
	I consider myself a relative newcomer to the field and sort of a novice at all this, but I certainly think there's a lot of things that we don't understand, and certainly science does have a habit of changing rather drastically opinions about how things work.
	One being, for a number of years I can remember as an elementary school student and a junior high school student being told that The dinosaurs died because of climate changes, and this happened very slowly and over millions and millions of years, and now we hear about the KT event, which they think that perhaps what happened was a large impactor hit somewhere around the Yucatan Peninsula, and it was all over in a matter of days.
	So science does have a habit of changing.
	It's just a matter of pursuing it academically and not trying to get carried away into wild speculations, but using the scientific Well, what is interesting to me is, and I don't mind, I've been delving into these areas for years, and colleagues, other talk show hosts use it as a way to take shots at me.
	I don't care.
	But for somebody with, you know, strong academic credentials, I can understand that you might have reason to worry.
	John Mack, Professor Mack, of course, because of his affiliation with the institution.
	But still, Today, things are changing, Doctor, and now we've got Nightline, and we've got a million programs, and a million movies, and a million mainstream media beginning to talk about all of this.
	Is this all one big orchestration?
	I don't know so much that it's orchestration.
	I think it's just a matter of the natural evolution of the scientific process.
	I think, principally because of the computer, That we're able to model a lot of things that we haven't been able to model before.
	And I think this has been a wonderful instrument in terms of us being able to look into mathematical concepts, being able to look in sort of a multi-dimensional way.
	The technology is there, it's just that our knowledge is so far lacking because principally we're still rooted in this idea of a Newtonian universe.
	And that is radically changing, and they're calling this the new science.
	Beginning to crumble?
	It's beginning to crumble.
	It's going to be a major paradigm shift, and I think as we get further into the, quote, information age, we're going to completely rewrite history, and we're going to have a totally different worldview.
	All right.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Rod Lewis.
	Hi.
	Yes.
	Who do you think is going to win the next Tyson fight?
	All right.
	Good question.
	Any insights?
	I have no idea.
	Nor do I, nor do I care.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Rod Lewis.
	Hi, Art.
	This is a killer show tonight.
	Glad you're enjoying it.
	Hey, I just wanted to ask the doctor if there's any relationship between what we're talking
	about here and HAARP.
	Is it a program to stop these changes or to accelerate them or what?
	It is a good question.
	Where are you?
	Hold on a second, doctor.
	Where are you, caller?
	Scottsdale, Arizona.
	Alright, good.
	We did a whole show on HAARP the other night, as a matter of fact, with Dr. Nick Begich.
	And he wrote, Angels Don't Play This Harp.
	So what do you know about harp, Doctor?
	I know quite a bit about it.
	In fact, I've spoken with Dr. Begich.
	We discussed it.
	He's very conversant and very well versed in harp.
	He knows considerably more than I do.
	He's probably the leading expert.
	But we did an issue on harp back in January.
	We were one of the first publications to come out with very comprehensive information about harp.
	It's a very interesting project, and we're not sure what to make out of it.
	We don't really know the reason that it exists.
	Other than to say, we are quite concerned, again, they may be dealing with things that they don't know what the long-term impact.
	Anytime you start messing with the weather and heating the ionosphere, there may be some things, unexpectedly, that may happen.
	Well, are they doing that?
	Are they messing, as you put it, with the weather?
	Well, they've stated that that's part of the project.
	Okay, I hadn't heard that.
	I heard the original charter was to heat the ionosphere, not necessarily to produce weather changes, but to try and affect in some way the ionosphere or the way it reflects radio or whatever, and to look for underground tunnels and bunkers.
	Right.
	That's what I heard.
	Right.
	But weather modification was one of the, in fact, they call them local weather modification, one of the objectives.
	Well, you know, I talk to Alaskans.
	We're on the air all over Alaska right now.
	And the Alaskans are telling me it's cold as hell.
	That's normal.
	But there's no snow on the ground.
	There's no snow virtually in Fairbanks and Anchorage and all the places where there ought to be snow.
	There isn't.
	Well, there's no doubt about it, Arthur.
	The world, the global weather situation is changing.
	And I'm not sure why people are so surprised at this.
	I think what it was is for the last 50 years, Historically, we've had relatively stable weather.
	I mean, the Earth's climate is very, very variable, and extremely variable and unpredictable.
	And I think what we experienced from about 1940 to 1990, roughly, was a fairly stable period in the Earth's climate.
	And this is abruptly coming to an end, and we're seeing changes in weather.
	We're seeing changes in geology.
	We are.
	And I'm not sure... Everything is, in effect, destabilizing, which is another word for chaos.
	Right, exactly.
	We're moving from that boundary of stability to the normal.
	Actually, I think the normal situation is a sort of chaotic environment.
	But the weather situation, if you go back as early as the late 1800s, we had a mini Ice Age.
	In Europe, in fact, in the United States, there was what they called the summer that never was, where we had basically no growing season.
	So, we just may be coming upon something that for a long period of time we had stability for the past 50 years, and now we're just moving back into a more normal pattern of variability.
	When you refer to human beings in the way you did earlier, would you think that that is, or the process of acceleration we're now experiencing, is a result of so many more human beings being on the planet, in other words, a function of numbers, or our behavior, or I'm reaching here, trying to come up with a reason for what seems to be occurring?
	Well, I follow you, and I think it's two things.
	I think, number one, it's numbers.
	Optimally, the number of human beings on Earth has stayed within a narrow range of between 500 million and 1.5 billion.
	And right around 1900, because of the introduction of antibiotics, particularly, we had that logarithmic growth spiral in human population, and now we're 5.5 billion people.
	Now, in and of itself, that's not necessarily bad, although you begin to place tremendous strains on the resources of Earth.
	That's correct.
	But we also have technology.
	Listen, we're near the top of the arrow.
	What I want to ask you is this.
	If the powers that be, wherever they are, who cares, if they concluded through remote viewing or psychic abilities or whatever, that the end was coming, and the reason was because there are so many people on the planet, would they, in your estimation, take steps That would result in fewer people on the planet.
	I believe they would, and I believe this has been a public policy established as early as 1962 with the Club of Rome's position that there are just entirely too many people.
	And in a conference in Cairo last November... I recall.
	Yeah, same thing.
	Listen, we are at the top of the hour.
	There's a million calls here.
	Sure, I'd be happy to field some calls.
	Alright, good.
	Let's field some calls then.
	Coming up next, we'll get more into the telephone.
	So stay right where you are.
	It is a fascinating area, no question about it.
	My guest is Dr. Rod Lewis from Houston.
	And I guess it's just one of those kinds of nights.
	That's why they call it open line, unscreened, spontaneous talk radio.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from December 7th, 1995.
	This is a test.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 7th, 1995.
	It is spontaneous radio, the best of it.
	As it occurs, I'm Art Bell.
	It's good to be here this morning.
	My guest is Dr. Rod Lewis.
	He follows Major Ed Dames.
	Subject, remote viewing, and I guess a little beyond.
	is that fast all right i think this sums it up very well uh...
	Art, the subject of remote viewing, is so fascinating.
	I'm reminded of books by science fiction author Philip K. Dick, such as Ubik, where there were agencies which employed psi-talents to foretell or change the future.
	Other agencies employing anti-psi-talents to nullify the psi-talents.
	Once again, it may be that science fiction may be becoming science fact.
	Yet in this case, it seems awfully far out there.
	Fascinating.
	Yet, if what seems to be around the corner is true, somewhat scary as well.
	Does that sum it up pretty well?
	It sure does, Art, and let me, if you wouldn't mind if I kind of dropped a bombshell on your audience.
	I didn't intend to go public with this.
	They love bombshells.
	Okay, well this is going to be a first that anybody's heard.
	We're going to publish it in our next issue of the C.E.
	Chronicles, but I'll go ahead and throw out a teaser.
	All these things we're hearing about aliens, especially the alien autopsy film, we have the inside information.
	on what that's all about.
	But there is a concerted effort going on right now to convince the general public that extraterrestrials exist, that they're real, that they're here.
	The Alien Autopsy film was a production.
	Unfortunately, the body is not human, that's correct, but it is not extraterrestrial and has nothing to do with Roswell.
	But it was designed by Ray Santilli and his Merlin Group specifically to introduce to the people, the general public, the idea that aliens do exist.
	Ray Santilli's not a filmmaker.
	I'm sorry?
	Ray Santilli is not a filmmaker.
	I believe he is.
	Well, I think that he... Well, not so much a filmmaker, I think, as he was hunting... He claims he was hunting footage of Elvis or some such.
	When he ran into this fellow who had this footage.
	Well, let me tell you this story.
	Two years ago, there was a meeting in Crestone, Colorado, which was attended by 50 people.
	I was contacted by a person very high up in the UFO community, this was two years ago, that they were in possession of a body.
	And the question was, well, what type of body are you talking about?
	Are you talking about extraterrestrial?
	They said no.
	I said, are you talking about non-human?
	They said yes.
	I said, well, is it terrestrial?
	And they said, yes.
	I said, well, who has it?
	They said the Russians.
	In fact, they have a whole locker full of them.
	What?
	And apparently this was part of a genetics experiment that was being done by the Russians under the auspices of the Russian government for approximately 50 years.
	And they had a whole locker full of these bodies, and they were selling them to raise Hard currency for, I think that the number that was quoted to me was a million dollars.
	Holy mackerel!
	Okay.
	So I was approached and asked, Dr. Lewis, what do you think would be the best way to get people to believe that extraterrestrials exist?
	If we had a body, what would be the best way to show this body?
	I said, well, I don't know.
	I said, I assume through a film or something like that.
	And by George, two years later, we have this alien autopsy film turn up.
	And my guess, and this is not, I don't have any hard documentation, but my best guess is it went something like this.
	The group at Crestone basically formed a limited partnership.
	They were contacted or arranged this through Ray Santelli.
	Ray Santelli bought the body, or the limited partnership bought the body.
	They made the film.
	Ray Santelli turned around, sold it to Fox, and of course sold a hundred thousand plus videotapes, so he recovered his investment on it.
	But it had nothing to do with Roswell, but it showed that... Okay, with what motive?
	Not on Santelli's part, forget that.
	The people who wanted, who came to you originally, the person said, what would be the best way to do this?
	What motive would that person have?
	Well, again, it goes back to the research that we've done.
	There is a group called the Aviary, and their responsibility is to control information about extraterrestrials and UFOs.
	You have to remember, Art, that if this story ever broke... Okay, but to inculcate this in our greater intelligence or subconscious, for what reason?
	Well, go back to the Brookings Institute study back in 1959.
	Basically, they said if you want to manipulate the psyche of any group of people, introduce them to a concept that's totally foreign, such as if, let's say, you have a group of aborigines, you go in and you show them high technology and they think it's magic.
	And that way you can control and manipulate a society.
	You have to remember that we have a film A tape of a show called The Outer Limits that was done back in the 1950s.
	I remember it well.
	Okay.
	The episode was called The Architects of Fear.
	The theme was there was a secret cabal of people, 12 or 13 people, that got together because we were on the verge of a nuclear holocaust.
	And they were saying, well, how can we stop this?
	Well, the only way that they figured they could stop it was to stage an alien contact.
	Sound familiar?
	Also, on Star Trek The Next Generation, have your listeners go out and get the episode about Calus.
	Basically, what this episode was, the Klingon Empire was on the verge of anarchy and chaos on Civil Breakdown.
	They brought back their messiah, Calus, in the form of a clone, but the people believed it was the real Calus.
	The idea was to have him as the moral leader and have the political structure Working with him to ensure a stable society.
	This is beginning to make the Kennedy assassination sound simple.
	It is.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Rod Lewis.
	Hello.
	Yes, sir.
	This is Billy from South Lake Houston.
	Oh, alright.
	Houston again.
	You bet.
	Doctor, I was wondering if you're familiar with the Clear Lake Nassau Bay area here?
	Yes.
	Do you know of any remote viewing or psychic activity being used since we've got all the major players?
	And it's a shame PTRH drops us at 4 o'clock so everybody that could possibly get some use out of this is not going
	to be able to hear it.
	Well, I know that John Alexander and Ed Dames have been to Houston and they have been at NASA.
	And there was a report last year that they were involved in some remote viewing experiments of the Mars Observer.
	And we did a story on Ed Dames' remote viewing of what happened to the Mars Observer.
	Right. Would some of these companies be using the remote viewing against each other since it's so competitive and
	the whole area is real tight?
	Well, there's evidence that DuPont Corporation had sent some of its top executives to Robert Monroe and the Monroe Institute, which was doing something similar to Ed Dames, but using out-of-body astral projection techniques.
	All right, caller.
	By the way, in the Houston area, a lot of people move over to Hoodat in New Orleans and continue to listen to the program.
	What's that frequency?
	Hint, hint.
	I think it's 1280.
	1280.
	You sure made my night.
	Thank you, sir.
	Have a good morning.
	And I was privileged to interview Dr. Monroe before he passed away.
	Truly a fascinating man.
	Again, there was an article in the Wall Street Journal about the Monroe Institute, and he uses a device called the Hemisync to induce an out-of-body experience, and some of his clients, I believe the Department of Defense sent a number of people there, including John Alexander, to learn how to do out-of-body experiences, plus, like I said, top executives from DuPont Corporation.
	Well, when I saw the Nightline program the other night, I...
	You know, this whole Roswell-Socorro business.
	Right.
	The government, of course, originally said it's a flying saucer.
	Then they said it's a weather balloon.
	Then for many years, decades, they said nothing.
	Then all of a sudden they came out and said, well, we lied.
	It was a different kind of balloon.
	Well, I believe them.
	Oddly enough, I believe it.
	90% of that is correct.
	Maybe so, but in a way, the program the other night on Nightline Reminded me of that explanation.
	It's like, all of a sudden, here we are announcing, yes, our government has been doing this kind of work, but we're not doing it now.
	Right.
	Baloney.
	I mean, baloney.
	If it is leading in the kind of serious areas that you and the Major talked about, how could they not be doing it?
	Oh, well, they are.
	In fact, Stan Friedman, in Larry King's Area 51 special, he said, quote, The government spends $34 billion a year on black projects, half of which are going into quote, psychological research, aka parapsychological research.
	Right, the unbelievable rapidly becomes the believable.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Rod Lewis in Houston.
	Hi, this is Steve in San Diego.
	Hi Steve.
	Hi, and I have a degree at UCSD In cognitive science, we study the nature of intelligence and I focused specifically in trying to simulate intelligence with computers and neural nets and things like that.
	And so learn about intelligence.
	Now, our basic perspective on the whole department came from a perspective of this, you know, telepathy and these things.
	Generally that there is no evidence for anything transmitting that couldn't be transmitted via some physical medium of some sort.
	You know, be it air or some sort of physical medium.
	And air being like sound or light with visual and all sorts of other cues.
	My fiancé is extremely perceptive.
	She and I are getting married on New Year's Eve, by the way.
	We've gotten to be really good at telling a lot of things and basically kind of reading each other's minds, but we don't call that reading each other's minds.
	We just call that knowing each other really well.
	Excuse me, where are you going with this?
	Well, my point is I'm really interested in how could you... I'm very open.
	I'm really curious about this stuff.
	How could you convince somebody with hard science, in terms of double-blind studies, research results available on the internet or wherever else, that we could look at data that could support, in terms of the nature of the studies and the science behind it all, to convince somebody at UCSD that this is not like my fiancé and I reading each other's minds when we just know each other really well.
	I'll let you answer it, Doctor.
	Well, the thing is, there's plenty of data.
	I mean, there's no dearth of hard data suggesting that this type of phenomenon exists.
	In fact, the doctor who was the co-author of Stargate, I forgot her last name, it starts with a U, but she's a statistician and she said that there's overwhelming statistical information or statistical data that this exists, this phenomenon exists.
	I think it's just that there are very many people that are threatened by the idea that we put an end, a premature end, to their careers, especially all those people that are grounded in Newtonian physics.
	It's not unlike the psychiatry field, where for years and years they have the psychoanalytic view, and now we have a biobehavioral view.
	I'm not so sure I'm not threatened by it.
	I said that to the major.
	Himself.
	It's going to be a very different kind of world.
	I don't know whether it's going to be good.
	He said that you can train somebody or a group to be eighty or ninety percent accurate.
	Now that means they can look at somebody or into somebody's mind or through their eyes or however it is done with remote viewing and if it's real it is going to change the world and I don't know whether it's going to be for the better or not.
	Well, go back and look at a movie.
	Again, this was back in the fifties.
	It was called Forbidden Planet.
	I saw it.
	Yeah, the essence of it was there was an advanced civilization called the Krill, and they were able to command an energy force with their consciousness.
	Unfortunately, what happened was it began to read their id.
	The monster from the id.
	Right, the monster from within.
	Alright, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Rod Lewis.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hello, where are you?
	I'm in Fort Vermillion, Alberta.
	Alberta, Canada.
	Alright, go ahead.
	I'd like to talk a little bit on... You were talking about entities of the unseen with IQs or something?
	Something like that?
	Well, I was talking about things that work at the Los Alamos Laboratories and their attempt to contact what they term non-human intelligences for military and intelligence purposes.
	I have a friend who's a Native American medicine man.
	And he told me about a lot of what you're talking about.
	Well, all right.
	There are many paths, aren't there, Doctor?
	Perhaps to the same destination?
	Could that be said?
	I think so.
	We're now becoming a little bit different in our approach, especially medical issues.
	We talk about holistic medicine.
	You not only treat the disease, but you treat the person as a whole.
	Yes.
	And there's a lot more involved in healing than just treating underlying biological disease.
	Certainly.
	A lot of people are waking up to that one.
	Right.
	So it's very much the same, really.
	There are many paths to this knowledge or to this contact with whatever it is.
	And we're not really sure, are we, exactly what it is that we're reaching out and sort of touching?
	No, and I don't think we're going to know, Art, until we look at it in hindsight.
	It's going to be 20-20 hindsight, and then it's going to be too late, unfortunately.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Rod Lewis.
	Where are you calling from, please?
	This is John in Oklahoma City.
	Hey, good morning, Art.
	Hey, I got a point I want to get across.
	If they could read minds, Sort of like what you're saying?
	Then this would kind of, they could use this in like the court systems, wouldn't they?
	Where they can maybe leave little doubt to guilt and innocence?
	Well, I don't think that's where they want to go with this.
	I think they're using it, in fact, in the intelligence communities, I think the purpose of this is to use it as sort of a screening technique.
	In other words, if their viewers have certain impressions of certain events that are about to happen or have happened, Then they can follow that up with hard intelligence.
	In other words, they can use their satellites or whatever intelligence techniques they use, but it's more for a screening type of activity.
	Is it possible, in your view, to remotely view not only across space, but through time?
	Yes.
	In fact, that's one of the things that we pointed out, that what they call enigma penetration is one of the Well, I'm sure then one of the first targeted things would be the Kennedy assassination.
	That's correct.
	Do you have any thoughts on that?
	happened but yeah it is not only
	something that is used to cross faith and also used to cross time
	well i'm sure than one of the first targeted things would be the kennedy
	assassination that's correct you have any thoughts on that well you have to ask uh...
	major games whether he had had anybody do an enigma penetration on the kennedy assassination
	i really don't know whether uh... that's been accomplished or not
	Seems like it would be a natural.
	I think it would be.
	First time Call Our Line.
	You're on the air with Dr. Rod Lewis.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Where are you?
	Oh, I'm in Salem.
	This is Tom in Salem.
	Oregon, all right.
	Yeah.
	The idea is that time and space are of a different thing.
	They're different dimensions.
	And we're in the transition.
	Between time energy and space nature.
	Okay, your question is?
	Okay, really it's a point more than a question.
	Alright, well then you've made it and we've got a break here.
	Doctor, we'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 7th, 1995.
	Tonight's the night we're gonna make it happen. Tonight we'll put all other things aside. Give in this time and show me
	We're gonna make it happen Tonight we'll put all other things aside
	Give in this time and show me some affection We're going for those pleasures in the night
	some affection. We're going for those pleasures in the night.
	I want to love you, feel you Let my trust around you
	I want to love you, feel you, wrap myself around you. I want to squeeze you, squeeze you. I just can't get enough
	I want to squeeze you, please you I just can't get enough and if you
	and if you move real slow, I'll let it go. I'm so excited and I just can't hide it. I'm about to lose control and I
	Real strong, I'll let it go I'm so excited
	And I just can't hide it All of my blues and soul and I think I like it
	think I might be...
	I'm so excited I'm so excited
	I'm so excited Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time
	somewhere in time.
	Tonight's program originally aired December 7th, 1995.
	A little bit later today I'm going to be doing an interview of Everything Comes Off with Gordon Michael Stallion.
	I'll have that for you tonight.
	Later tonight.
	I think I may do it around midnight so the Bay Area gets to hear it.
	They have concerns about such things there.
	Good morning.
	Back now to Houston and Dr. Rod Lewis.
	And, Doctor, here's an interesting fact that brings up an interesting point.
	Art, as you know, many of our military contractors are California-based companies.
	Could you please ask your guest if he has any knowledge of their concerns or strategic concerns in planning by the U.S.
	military in the event of a catastrophic event on the West Coast?
	Well, unfortunately, I think Most of them are probably not aware because they are operating on a need-to-know basis.
	And basically, in intelligence parlance or military parlance, that just means we tell you what you need to know to do your job.
	So I think they're pretty ignorant as far as actually knowing what's going on.
	Now, the people who do know, of course we have this thing called continuity of government and these underground facilities that basically honeycomb the desert southwest.
	Yes.
	And we hear about things like the Taos Hum and these different phenomena in Area 51.
	And I think in case of a national emergency, like a cataclysm of some type, that they have these underground tunnels, they have air freight, they have ways to move most of the really important personnel and the really important, quote, stuff to these safe areas.
	And I think that's what they would do.
	All right.
	That having been said, the one person who probably ought to know, certainly alluded to the fact that he knows, is Major Dames, correct?
	Right.
	What's he doing in California?
	Well, he hasn't been there very long.
	He moved from Albuquerque, from what I understand, to California, and I believe he's in Beverly Hills someplace.
	He has an office for SciTech.
	I can't say what his motivation is.
	Maybe he believes that Whatever's going to happen, he may have enough forewarning to take a quick vacation, or perhaps his particular area might not be affected.
	Or perhaps something else will happen where he will be basically made immune to whatever's going on.
	What bothers me about what you've said, what Major has said, Gordon Michael Scallion, Stan Dale, I could run through a whole litany, a whole list of people, is that all of you are saying Roughly the same thing, coming at it from different directions, some scientific, some psychic, some pseudo-science, but all of them seem to be, all of you seem to be delivering approximately the same message.
	Even the Hopi Indians.
	Right.
	And if you listen to Robert Morning's guy, he is the official spokesman, I believe.
	I had him on the show.
	Yeah, that's very interesting that science should meet ancient religion at a point.
	We can make a lot of scientific arguments for what we think may happen in the future.
	Of course, this has been prophesied not only by indigenous peoples to the United States, but also in the Judeo-Christian Bible.
	And that's something, again, that the The intelligence community or the national security establishment is very, very concerned about is this fundamentalist perception that we are entering an end time.
	And a lot of people are even talking about things like the Mark of the Beast and the Antichrist and things of that nature.
	What makes this very interesting is that just the belief that people, if they believe it strong enough, it's almost like the self-fulfilling prophecy.
	Perhaps they will actually make it happen.
	In an unwitting way, but they'll never the less make it happen because of their strong belief in it.
	And I think this is a tremendous concern.
	But there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that just from a scientific standpoint, you're talking about ecology, that our days may be compromised, may be numbered.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Rob Lewis.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	One quick question.
	All right.
	Where are you calling from, sir?
	The one comment is, what if Oswald was in the theater at the time?
	Alright sir, before you ask your question, I'm going to ask again, where are you calling from?
	From Edwardsville, Illinois.
	And now, Oswald, what about him?
	Yeah, what if Oswald was in the theater when Kennedy was assassinated?
	In other words, he was set up.
	Two, wasn't there a movie called The most interesting part to that whole thing, because it mixed everything we're talking about.
	coming down. Yes, I'm glad I'd rather tackle the second question.
	Yeah, that was the... One of the best I've ever seen.
	One of the things I was trying to think of. Without warning.
	Without warning. I have it on tape. It is one of the best of the genre. There's no question.
	Now, the most interesting part to that whole thing, because it mixed
	everything we're talking about, Art, it mixed the possibility of
	Earth encountering asteroids. It talks about intelligently guided impactors.
	That's right. Also, did you notice in one part you have the scientist that rushes
	over to the Department of Defense and he's talking to these
	people saying, no, don't send the F-16s after these people.
	What if this had been Muhammad or Buddha or Jesus?
	That makes one wonder.
	What point are they trying to make?
	It does.
	It also makes one wonder about Hale-Bopp.
	A lot of interesting things have been said recently about Hale-Bopp by Richard Hoagland regarding guidance.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Rod Lewis.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	This is Darrell from Salt Lake City, Utah.
	Yes, sir.
	The doctor mentioned some concerns in the intelligence community about beliefs and the Judeo-Christian religion.
	And I was wondering what maybe some of those concerns might be.
	He touched on it a little bit, I know.
	And if there was some type of contingency plan for dealing with their concerns in that area?
	Well, we've already seen the first salvos.
	Obviously the Waco thing was based almost entirely around David Koresh's belief that this was fulfillment of the Book of Revelation.
	And you have this group over in Japan that was Allegedly responsible for the gas attack, and it has an in-time theme.
	There was an article recently written in Atlantic Monthly by Robert Kaplan called Apocalypse Soon, which talks about the government's concern of different millenialist groups.
	There's something like 1,500 millenialist groups in the United States.
	Now if they all get a whim at one time, let's say as we approach 2000, to do something, No telling what could happen.
	You may have total disruption of society as we know it.
	You know, it's an interesting theory, and I have said on a number of occasions that David Koresh, in a lot of ways, fulfilled his own prophecy, ensured that his own prophecy was fulfilled.
	And is it possible that as a society, We are doing what David Koresh did.
	That's a good possibility.
	That is a real good possibility.
	That's what I was saying before, that maybe if we have a belief, we may be actually creating that reality.
	And one of your callers earlier said something about a collapse of space-time and dimension.
	And this is a theory that has been proposed by a number of people, both contemporaries and historically.
	Yes.
	I had a guest last Sunday on my Dreamland program, Moira Timms, and she actually got angry, or on the edge of anger.
	and that we definitely have an influence on reality in our belief systems may be leading
	us to a collapse in our current view and reality of the world.
	I had a guest last Sunday on my Dreamland program, Moira Timms, and she actually got
	angry or on the edge of anger.
	She said there was on that night the report of an eight-point earthquake north of Japan.
	Very, very large earthquake.
	And I reported it.
	And she said, why are you telling people that?
	And I said, well, because it's news.
	I said, we only have about one a year of these, right?
	And, of course, this is in the predicted cycle of Gordon Scallions.
	And so I said that.
	And she said, yes, but that will put people in a mode of thinking That will drive what becomes the reality, which is exactly what we're talking about right now.
	Exactly.
	And again, I think this is what... There's kind of a Manhattan Project going on right now at Los Alamos National Laboratories, as we discussed, and it has to do with parapsychology, and I think this is one thing that they are very concerned about, is that if the belief system becomes so prevalent and so dominant, that this may actually lead to the reality that we're fearing.
	One interesting note, Art, is I've talked to a number of people that talk about time seems to be compressed, time flying by.
	Now, I know people have said, as you get older, time does go by faster, and there's a physiological and a psychological reason for this, but you're also finding it in kids, which normally They're perception of time is that it kind of drags along.
	You're right.
	They're reporting that time is being compressed.
	Oh, now that is interesting.
	Now, it's interesting that if you go back to the Bible, the Judeo-Christian Bible, the term tribulation literally means compression.
	And it says something in there, those days will be shortened, or something like that.
	Or which to us, of course, appears to be an acceleration or a... Right, an acceleration of time.
	Or a quickening.
	Or a quickening.
	Ease to the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Dr. Rod Lewis.
	Hello.
	How are you doing, Art?
	I'm okay.
	Where are you?
	I'm Scott and I'm from Billings, Montana.
	Alright, Scott.
	You might think of this as kind of a silly question, but you know the song, Jimmy Crack Corn and I Don't Care?
	Well, do you know what that means?
	Do you know the meaning of that song?
	Well, I would... No, actually I don't.
	So you go ahead and tell us.
	I could give you a general rendition, but I won't even try.
	What does it mean?
	My point is, I don't either.
	And... Well then, I guess I haven't heard the question yet.
	What I'm trying to say is, I don't believe that there's... I believe that there's a lot of kids out there singing this song.
	And they've got this I don't care thing in their head.
	Well, that's part of it, though, in my estimation.
	Thank you.
	In other words, the doctor just said that children are experiencing an acceleration as well.
	And I guess that would be one protective psychological attitude you could take about what's occurring.
	Jimmy Crackhorn and I don't care.
	Certainly, kids today have a very nihilistic view of the world.
	It's very frightening because they perceive that they don't have a future.
	And I think what you're seeing manifested in things like body piercing, self-mutilation, drug abuse, a lot of the societal problems that we're seeing in kids today, there seems to be a rather A dearth of hope.
	No, I agree, Doctor.
	Here's a good example.
	I've used this on the air, and it's so true.
	There was a time in America, earlier, even in my life, when there was a sort of honor among thieves.
	In other words, a guy would go into a convenience store or a liquor store, and he'd hold up a gun.
	Say, give me your cash.
	And the guy would give him the cash, and the guy would leave.
	These days, in 1995, He goes in with a gun, says, give me your cash.
	The guy gives him the cash.
	The guy with the gun shoots the guy behind the counter just for the hell of it.
	Exactly.
	Exactly.
	And, you know, another thing, too, is sometimes sit down.
	I think what's very telling about our society or the state of mind we're in is watch kids' cartoons.
	And I remember, I don't know how old you are, but I grew up in the 50s and I can remember things like Howdy Doody and... Oh, me too.
	I'm 50.
	You know, fun kind of stuff.
	But now it's almost all very Post-apocalyptic, there's a lot of post-apocalyptic themes, that the world is subjugated, that it's not a very pleasant place to live, and there's just this theme of despair.
	So these children that don't believe they have a future, they may be right?
	In my opinion, they may be.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Dr. Rod Lewis.
	Hi, how are you guys doing this morning?
	Fine, where are you?
	I'm in Eugene, Oregon.
	Yes, sir.
	APNW?
	Right.
	I don't know if he can answer this or not, but I was wondering if you could elaborate more on the non-human intelligence that the government was trying to contact.
	What are these?
	Alright, well the answer I guess is, it's a good question, but they don't know what they're contacting, do they?
	No, they have no idea what they're dealing with now.
	Of course, the immediate speculation is they're probably dealing with some sort of something in what we call the demonic realm, which if you look at the word demon, that's just a Greek word for disembodied intelligence.
	It doesn't really connotate anything evil.
	It's just a disembodied intelligence.
	But there appears to be some things out there.
	We have no idea what we're dealing with.
	And apparently, it's something that they take very seriously.
	And unfortunately, they're trying to use it, again, for military and defense purposes.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Rod Lewis.
	Hi.
	Well, hi, Art.
	I'm so glad to get through to you.
	You made it.
	Where are you?
	I am in Greeley, Colorado.
	I'm north of Denver, about 50 miles.
	All right.
	First of all, sir, you are brilliant.
	You shine like no star I've ever seen.
	I wanted to ask this doctor about the term he was using.
	How is it spelled?
	Esotology?
	It's called eschatology.
	How is it spelled?
	It comes from the root word eschaton, which just means the end of time or the end.
	ESC?
	Yeah, ESC.
	C-H-A-T-O-L-O-G-Y, eschatology.
	And it means what?
	It's just sort of a politically correct term for the end of the world, or the end of time.
	And it applies to both occult and science, or just one or the other?
	It's both a scientific and a religious term.
	The study of eschatology is just the study of the end time.
	And it's usually Referred to or related to Judeo-Christian prophecy based on the Book of Revelation, but a lot of people apply it to any type of ancient prophecy, whether it be Hopi Indian or Muslim or Shinto or whatever.
	And how glad I am to hear you mention some of the Native Americans here, because some of the things I've found in archaeology around this area of the world where I live seem to match up with other Things from other religions and plateaus of where people had societies, if you will.
	And I think that there is a correlation between the way people have understood things in our recent history as far as societies go.
	Some of the religions even match up.
	To some of the things that you and other of our guests have talked about.
	Just a great circle, sort of.
	In other words, we are rediscovering what once was known.
	Would that be about right, Doctor?
	That is a good way to put it.
	You know, things do go in cycles, and you can look at them from very short-term daily cycles to very long-term cycles in civilization.
	I think basically we're going to Return to the point from which we departed in this last 6,000 or 7,000 year cycle.
	Yes.
	Our time is about to end here and I want to give you a chance.
	You have a periodical, the C.E.
	Chronicles, correct?
	That's right.
	I want to give you, you've been so good about doing this, spur of the moment, I want to give you a chance to plug it.
	And for $5 we can send them out a sample issue.
	Our last issue just came out.
	It's called Encounters with the Men in Black.
	We also have a story on Louis Farrakhan's extraterrestrial vision, which I think is quite telling.
	I thought that was fascinating, as a matter of fact, that he did refer to a visitation.
	That's right.
	He met Elijah Muhammad aboard a UFO.
	That's what he says.
	And he called this UFO the wheel, which is actually something about the size of an asteroid.
	Your bulletin board, will it accept new users?
	Yes, it will.
	The only thing, if you just leave a message to me that you heard me on Art Bell, we'll get you set up.
	We won't have to go through all those validation procedures.
	Just leave a message and I'll upgrade your access and you can log on.
	Alright, well it has been surely a pleasure having you on the program.
	Well, thanks a lot.
	Fascinating.
	Doctor, thank you.
	I enjoyed it.
	If we're lucky, Gordon Michael Scallion coming up tonight Thank you very much.

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