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Nov. 19, 1995 - Art Bell
01:28:59
Dreamland with Art Bell - Communion - Whitley Strieber
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Time Text
...tackles his efforts to find a sensible explanation.
Communion, for your information, has sold over 10 million copies worldwide, has been made into a film with Christopher Walken playing Whitley.
It is the best film of all time.
frames.
So Noah's taken every measure.
And you also might want to know, he's passed three independently administered lie detector
tests.
Bye.
He still does not know what happened to him.
So much that it is not explainable.
In his latest book on the subject, Breakthrough, he offers strong circumstantial evidence that the strange beings he calls the Venturers are real.
What's he doing next?
Well, he's working on a book called The Secret School, which is designed to shed light on what he believes their, meaning the aliens, aims or motives might be.
So coming up in just one moment, it's Whitley Strieber and let me clear a little content here and we'll just roar to the top of the hour.
We'll be right back.
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Alright, Thanksgiving is coming right now.
And so right now I want to tell you, if you're not going to be with your family, here's a way you can be in spirit.
Trust me when I tell you, absolutely fresh flowers is, by a dimension, the best deal on flowers in America, period.
They go out, when you call, they cut the flowers, put them in this big triangular box, along with your message.
I don't know where to begin with you.
I tell you, I'm going to sort of jump into a strange question, and then we'll backtrack.
Okay.
A very good friend of mine lives in Las Vegas.
His name is John Lear.
And I have interviewed and known John over the years.
He once told me something on a talk show that he said you had told him that I have never forgotten and never been able to get over.
He said, when you die, don't go to the light.
It's a trick.
Go to the dark.
I said that?
He said that you had said that to him and possibly You've forgotten it, or possibly it was never said, but I wanted to ask you.
Who knows?
I mean, I've said a lot of things in this lifetime.
I wouldn't say I haven't said that.
But at the same time, I don't know quite what the context of it would have been.
I don't remember the conversation.
I had some conversations with Jon, so it's possible, I guess.
Interesting.
I don't know why, what a sentence, kind of an interesting thing to say.
Well, it's, you know, we all have the, you go to the light, obviously the light is a good concept.
Boy, that's creepy.
Isn't it creepy?
I have been talking about, you know, I once wrote a horror story, but it was fiction about that, about the light being a trick.
Oh, really?
Yeah, and it's possible that... Well, I might have done it.
Yeah, I mean that might have been what I was talking about, or it might be that there was a time when I, well let me think now.
I'm trying to remember, I think I read that somewhere.
Which is what gave me the idea for the story, but goodness.
It's certainly an interesting thing to contemplate, though.
It is a trick.
How creepy.
How creepy is right!
Somehow I finally concluded, after this bothered me for literally years, I finally concluded, look, getting into heaven isn't a which-door-do-you-choose kind of situation.
No.
So it's not going to be a trick.
I don't think so, either.
There may have been a time when my The fear system that I was trapped in for so many years would have caused me to cough up an idea like that.
But I don't think anything like that anymore.
I don't think it's a very...
There seems to be a lot of sort of independence, as it were.
I think if you're going to go somewhere bad, it's because that's where you decide to go.
I'm with you.
You know, that's my feeling now.
I don't know if it was then or not, but that's for sure my feeling now.
One of my favorite novels, and I love the genre, was War Day.
I really, really loved War Day.
How do you feel about that as part of what you've done?
Where does it fit in?
Well, it fits in an interesting place because War Day was a Jim Kinetka and I, when we talked at the War Day Scenario, we did not, and what the scenario was, by the way, was that a limited nuclear war could be a very, very, very dangerous affair for two reasons.
One, that a burst of x-rays could be sent out from a Nuclear bombs set off high in the atmosphere that could blow out every electrical, every electronic circuit in a whole hemisphere.
EMP pulse.
Yeah, right.
I mean, it's an EMP pulse.
And that caused, it's interesting, a lot of people in Congress did not know anything about EMP until they read Word.
And they started asking the Defense Department questions about whether or not the United States had a hard an EMP safe communication system, which it did not and does
not.
And so it caused that and it caused some other repercussions because it became obvious that
the idea which was current in those days that a limited nuclear war was winnable and survivable
was not a true idea.
There were some changes in strategic thinking at the time that were probably good because you remember back in those days we were supposedly at the Soviet Union and the United States were ready to push the button at all times.
One of the problems was that we'd been in a stalemate because for a long time The guy that pushed the button first was probably going to get himself blown all to hell.
The difficulty was that if one side became convinced that the other had to push the button first, then they therefore would have to push the button first.
repeat of world war one which would last about ten minutes and then the world
it's looking at the outcome uh... where
you know it's for in world war one once the trains once they started mobilizing
everybody had to fight there was no way to stop that was the danger that was what was so destabilizing
about the uh... limited nuclear war scenario
From that day, when you wrote that, to today, when we supposedly have love and kisses between ourselves and the Soviets, or the Russians, excuse me, and we've got Yeltsin hanging on by a thread, and the possibility of a military guy, if Yeltsin should assume room temperature.
Are we still at risk in reality?
Oh, sure.
It's absolutely a very unstable situation in Russia, and most of the old Soviet missile system is still operational, in theory.
Whether or not those big old liquid fuel rockets that they've got can go anywhere is significant.
No one knows, but it only takes one or two of them to make it to really, really create a tremendous disaster here.
Because some of them are merved and they carry quite a number of nuclear warheads.
Say if they fired off 30 or 40 and two of them made it, our country would be devastated.
I mean, we would really be hit hard.
That's a highly unstable situation politically.
I think it's more dangerous now than it was in 1980.
So do I. I also feel that some things have emerged on our side that are extremely disturbing.
In the fallout from the Aldrich Ames fiasco, it's become clear that the CIA was knowingly feeding Its various governmental clients painted information that it knew had been supplied to it by... In other words, they were passing on intentionally disinformation.
Well, yeah, that they were passing on information that was being generated essentially within the KGB, which is why the United States did not understand that the Soviet Union was falling until it actually happened.
And that's... the reason that's so disturbing is this.
It means, to me, I mean, I know a fair amount about the intelligence community.
James Angleton was struggling for years to try to find a mole within the CIA.
He felt that the CIA had been turned.
James' case came in in verbatim.
My problem is this.
The people who were there are still mostly, a lot of them are still there.
If they're knowingly passing information that was handed to them by the KGP, to the administration, not telling the administration that this stuff is tainted, not telling the National Security Agents and the Defense Department that it's no good, why aren't they KGP agents?
Who do they serve?
How many of them do you think, reasonably, for this to have occurred, Would have knowingly had to have passed on the disinformation.
A significant number.
I mean, way up the line.
Because if you look at the structure of the CIA, it is designed to filter out disinformation like that.
There's lots of safeguards.
And they were all being bypassed.
And Angleton was eventually retired in disgrace.
And everyone said he was paranoid for looking for a mole.
I think that the CIA is a major, major problem at this time, because we can't trust it.
Remember, the KGB stayed intact.
It rocked around a bit at the changeover, but it's basically still an intact organization.
Therefore, why aren't those lines of communication between KGB and CIA still functioning?
There's a big article in Parade Magazine about how Deutsch is going to change things around at the CIA.
But I think there's probably got to be a very, very major housecleaning in that agency before we can even tell what's going on in the Soviet Union for sure.
I have a feeling that the administrations, U.S.
administrations, Let me probe a little on what you might know was passed.
Do you have any idea regarding the importance of the information?
Well, there was quite a long article in the New York Times two weeks ago.
I can't give the exact date.
I don't have it in my head.
And I'm not in my office.
And apparently, it was everything.
It was just a... It read like it was an intelligence chemical of cataclysmic proportions.
In fact, the word cataclysmic was even used in the article.
In other words, it's an absolute disaster.
What do you know of the nature of the information?
Do you actually know what kind of stuff?
Oh, they were vaguer, more vague about that.
I'm sure.
Because they would have to be, but primarily what was passed was a lot of information that created a false picture of the Soviet Union as a healthy, functioning, economic, political, and military organism, when in fact it was collapsing.
Alright, well if you look at motive, the motive for such a thing obviously would come from, for example, the giant uh... defense industry
but wouldn't the primary motive has been wouldn't the soviets have wanted to conceal their weakness
for the united states as long as possible absolutely
of course that i mean there were certainly
a windfall handed to the american defense industry but i'm not i don't
think you can look that far for a conspiracy i mean it they they were
and and also there's another factor in that that uh... and that that the
military build-up we we uh... engaged in in those days may very well have been a
destabilizing influence
in the in the soviet union because it required them to spend so much of their
more of their g m p on military But what I don't think we realized was it was probably far more effective than we ever dreamed it would be because they were much weaker than we thought they were.
However, having said all that again, the present Russian government is incredibly Unstable.
And anything could happen any day.
One of these days we hear Yeltsin had a heart attack and he didn't come out of this one.
And here I am taking over at the Kremlin, whoever it is.
We have absolutely no idea what will happen when Yeltsin's government falls or dies or Yeltsin dies.
i don't think that there's any meaningful information at all insider outsider pressure about that
uh... it's even true by the way that uh... there's a uh...
uh... you're close uh... secret society in europe uh...
devoted to the restoration of of of uh...
They tried to get the Romanians to accept the return of their king recently, unsuccessfully.
And they apparently are planning to get the Romanov heir into St.
Petersburg if the government in Moscow falls into chaos and to declare A new czar.
Oh boy.
So that would create... If there was suddenly someone with Romanov blood declaring a new czardom and saying there would be a constitutional monarchy, the picture would change again.
I mean, who knows what's going to happen there?
All right, and all of that aside, there are also very strong rumors that Iran, possibly others, have obtained old Soviet nuclear devices.
What's your best information on that one?
If they haven't obtained semi-operational nuclear devices or enriched uranium in some quantities, it would be extraordinary.
The Soviet system has been hemorrhaging that kind of stuff because the payment that has been offered has been so huge and it's mostly been gold offered.
of individuals who are presently living in a very, very dismal circumstance are offered the equivalent of four or five million dollars in gold for a relatively easily smugglable amount of enriched uranium, and I'm sure that's been successfully And when you look at the condition that the CIA is in, and the German intelligence is in, which is also in a very poor state, those are the two primary intelligence organizations that could stop something like this.
You see that they're not capable of doing it, and therefore it's happened, and is happening.
If a nuclear device were to detonate in an unfriendly manner, would you expect The primary target to be Jerusalem, Tel Aviv or Washington?
Well, first of all, the detonation will be totally unexpected.
It'll happen all of a sudden with absolutely no warning at all.
Of course.
By a device that's been reassembled on site.
Yes.
It depends on Whether it is intelligence or fanaticism that causes, that guides the hand.
If they're smart, they will do Washington.
If they're not smart, they will do Tel Aviv or Jerusalem.
If they blew up Washington, the world would be thrown into absolute chaos.
I don't know what would happen to the United States.
It would be a break in history.
Would our constitutional system even survive it?
I don't know.
I'm not sure.
I don't think anyone would be able to tell.
It would be at least an open question, I'm sure.
Things would change.
There's no meaningful contingency plans that I'm aware of that speak to the sudden and unexpected and complete destruction of the United States government.
Should that occur, Get your neck out a little further.
We're about at the top of the hour here.
Let's say Washington evaporated.
What would you surmise the U.S.
response to be?
There wouldn't be one.
There wouldn't be one?
No.
How could there be?
There would be nothing to respond with.
We wouldn't have First of all, it wouldn't be a dropped weapon.
It would be something that had been reassembled on site.
Absolutely.
There would be no warning.
There would be no way of telling where it had come from, and there would be absolutely nobody intact to investigate it.
You know, boy... All right, Whitley, we've got a break here at the top.
Okay.
Fascinating area.
Stand by.
We'll be right back to you.
Whitley Streber is my guest.
We began with War Day, and we're way into the future now.
stay right there right and would leave three birds my guess
We're talking about apocalypse, in a way.
His book, War Day, and his comments on the current situation, CIA, nuclear devices getting loose, the possibility of one detonating in our country, and it's all part of what... Apocalypse is not the word I use.
I use the word quickening, as you know, many of you, and what it means is the quickening of social, economic, uh...
events the monetary uh... events uh... the movement toward one world this or that whatever
you want to call it the quickening events the ring of fire
the volcanoes the predictions of scallion and others
events appear to be accelerating and i wonder if you've noticed that uh...
uh... whitley well there is an acceleration
across the board uh...
uh... from uh...
In the UFO area?
Yes.
Yes.
In the past three or four years, there's been what I would describe as just an outburst of sightings and other phenomena videotaped, for example, in Mexico to the point where It's not really disputable that there's something there.
I mean, I don't think that it's possible for a sane person to dispute that.
Hundreds of thousands of people seeing them, yes.
Well, yeah, and video being taken that, as I say, that can't be disputed.
And in fact, over Colorado just recently, there's been a huge UFO sighted.
An interesting thing, by the way, is that the Some of those old stellar calendars that operate on the 26,000 year cycle of the perception of the equinox are indicating a major change of the age taking place.
In some cases 2005 is the year, in others 2012.
I think five or six of those calendars do that.
And of course, our stellar calendar, which is the zodiac, is changing from Pisces to
Aquarius.
It's starting to just...
Really, the most significant part of the change began a couple of weeks ago when Uranus, shortly
followed by Pluto, entered Aquarius to remain there for the duration, I mean, for a very
long time.
And what's interesting is that there is a mathematical study that's been done of the
rate at which human knowledge is increasing.
And human knowledge will be doubling daily by the year 2010, I think, and will reach the infinite in 2012, just on the mathematical statistics.
That's incredible!
Yeah.
Now, what does that mean?
Well, all it adds up to is really something very straightforward.
There is going to be a lot of change around here.
It's not going to be like this for very much longer.
And now I notice that the, now that we're reaching the so-called millennium, the sort of conventional press is beginning to beat the drums for no change.
But that's not going to happen.
There is changes, massive changes on the way, changes in the way we act and think.
a change in the world around us. That book I just wrote, The Secret School, is all about
this and about the changes that are going to take place as I understand them.
I'm with you, Whitley. Animals have instincts. I believe that human beings either had them
at one time and to some degree do or are now developing them. I can't tell which. I'm a
mere mortal. But a lot of us can feel it.
You can feel something about to happen.
The other two are about to come down.
I've been feeling that very strongly since I first had my encounters with the visitors.
I had a real quickening of that take place in 1989 too.
Then again in 1994 when I started writing Breakthrough.
Then again just recently the finishing of The Secret School was accompanied by the biggest
physical encounter I've had with non-human beings in years.
Would you describe that?
Well, I can, sure.
The encounter was directly related to the end of the book and forms the last chapter of the book.
In other words, it was a direct communication that was placed where it was placed in my life to provide me with the last chapter of the book.
The chapter was literally written the next couple of days.
It happened about, I guess, two weeks ago.
It's about a week and a half ago.
It was a week ago last Sunday that it took place.
Are you a messenger?
I have no idea.
I never think about that kind of stuff.
I quit worrying about what the devil I am.
I'm just doing it at this point.
I don't even want to think about it because it might be interesting for other people to think about a thing like that, but to be in here and not to know the answer to a question like that, it's not even something I care to speculate about.
But anyway, this encounter began with a heavy-duty allergic reaction that woke me up from a dead sleep in the middle of the night.
I associate that with the close physical approach of the ones with the great big eyes that people call the greys.
In my life, I have a very strong allergic reaction to their presence.
At the time, at the moment it was happening, I did not see anything unusual in the room.
I just assumed it was an allergy attack.
Well, that's what I was going to ask.
You mean an actual physical sneezing eyes running?
Oh, absolutely.
I mean it woke me up out of a sleep.
Eyes burning.
Slow and nearly closed.
Unable to breathe.
Both nostrils closed.
Sneezing like crazy.
To the point where it felt like the sneezes were going to blow out my eardrums because everything else was sealed up.
And I staggered off into the bathroom to get an antihistamine.
And then went to bed in another room because I did not want to bother my wife with all of this noise.
I mean, I was really... I sounded like a backfiring truck.
I lay down on the bed.
A second later, I saw one of these familiar faces peering in the doorway of the room.
And I thought, Well, that's a surprise.
And what then happened was that I was plunged forward.
The whole book, Secret School, is about moving through time and about experiences.
And you'll find if you talk to people who are inside the witness experience a lot, recently everybody in the whole experience is beginning to realize that they have moved through time, they can move through time, they've been taken back and forth in time.
What can you tell us about the nature of time?
It's been one of my favorite topics all my life.
I wouldn't know this, but in fact this is what we are really beginning to deal with
now.
What can you tell us about the nature of time?
It's been one of my favorite topics all my life.
I'll tell you the lesson I got from, not from the Grays, but from another group of visitors
who I had about a ten month relationship with when I was at my old cabin in upstate New
York.
I'm...
They said this, and this is really interesting, and they were much easier to communicate with than the Grays were.
Difficult, but not impossible.
Their concept of time was you looked at the future as water.
The present was something that compressed water and the past was ice.
You didn't look forward to the future, but rather the future was on your right, the present
in the center and the past on your left.
The real mystery was outside of all three of those things.
They had the idea that you could go back into the past and change the present to some extent,
but not completely because obviously a lot of it is frozen.
But nature being nature, there's always, you know, there's always a way out.
Frozen.
You remember, I'll bet you saw the movie Langoliers, didn't you?
No, I didn't.
I'm sorry to say.
Okay, well, simply, it was a TV movie about an airplane, and all of a sudden, Everybody, except those who had been asleep on the airplane, were gone.
I mean, they were gone.
And what had occurred, without dragging this out, is they had slipped in time back about, I don't know, only 15 minutes or whatever it was.
But it was in a kind of a virtually frozen world, where there wasn't activity and movement as we have it, you know, as we go along the timeline, everything's active.
Everything there was sort of unreal.
And was slowly being destroyed, as in time not being forever.
It's fascinating.
Yeah, fascinating.
If you get a chance to see the Langleyers, you ought to.
So anyway, what happened was this.
I went forward in time, a short distance, probably about 20-25 years and saw myself
and my wife in a garden picking, I mean we were doing something fairly prosaic.
We were picking pecans off the ground.
Probably retired.
We were old, yeah.
We were old.
That doesn't necessarily mean that this is a future that's going to happen, but it's one that obviously could.
It's one place in that water that I'm likely to reach.
Or it wouldn't have happened, but here's what subsequently happened.
For a moment when I was there, myself from there was laughing.
He knew I was going to show up, as he would.
In other words, you knew you were coming?
Sure, I must have.
My memory is changing.
It's beginning to feel like I have memories that are from the future.
There's some kind of a link between myself then and myself now, and I'm beginning to pick things up.
I'll tell you what I think.
I can't, unfortunately, give you very exact predictions about earth changes and stuff, because where I was standing, there weren't any, obviously.
I mean, this place is still there.
I don't know yet.
Maybe in a couple of months or six months time, I'll have more.
But it's like a channel's been opened up to the Whitley of that particular future.
Oh, that's absolutely amazing.
Of course, only one little tiny slice, but maybe next time.
But I'll tell you something.
I want to tell you something.
I've really got a message about this from this already, and there's more to it than I said just now.
Okay.
Because I'll tell you, I know where we are in our history, okay?
And this is where we are.
We're where the Roman Republic was right before it ceased to be a republic and Augustus became the first emperor.
We're there.
We are well on the way to ceasing to be a republic.
It's definitely not a republic as we know it at that time.
And that's all I know about it.
I can't give you any specifics.
But that I do know.
It's some kind of different thing.
I don't know if it's bad or good.
I wouldn't say, but it ain't this.
Boy, we could be blood brothers. I want you to listen to something.
I gave an analogy, and have been over the last couple of weeks, Woodley, the following.
The old movie, High and Mighty.
Maybe you remember that one.
Many years ago.
I saw it when I was a child.
And it was about an airplane.
You go midway across the Pacific.
Well, at that point, about halfway across the Pacific, the halfway point, a little red light came on.
Point of no return.
Now that means if something goes wrong, you go forward.
You're certainly not going back to where you took off from.
And I've been saying on the air, I think mankind's little red light It came on not very long ago.
Sometime in the late 80s.
I think it did too.
I think you're absolutely right.
We're going.
We're going.
To whatever is next.
But here's the thing about time and about it becoming hyper-conscious and getting to the point where the human mind exits time.
Does that mean that we then go back across time and rebuild ourselves and we learn how
to shift between parallel universes into the one where we want to center our attention
into the one that is the most acceptable for us?
Exactly what happens?
I don't know, but I do know this, that the changes that are going to take place are far
more fundamental than just earth changes.
I am talking about a change of mind so great that it becomes possible for human beings
to gain control over the physical environment with the mind.
that the mind is about to make a gigantic evolutionary leap.
I was going to say evolutionary leap.
Absolutely.
No question about it.
My guess is that the whole visitor phenomenon and the cracks that have opened up in reality
and the near death experience like Damien Brinkley's book, Embraced by the Light, my
wife was putting out to me the other day, Saved by the Light, putting out to me the
He describes after his near-death experience a trip back in time just like one I had, right before I had my first visitor encounter.
I mean, he describes this, I had this in Breakthrough and in Transformation, this thing about these nine knocks that seem to be the harbingers of change coming on the side of my house in three groups of three.
Yes.
Other people in the encounter experience have had this.
He talks about it as nine chimes in three groups of three that he heard when he was in the world of the dead.
Same vision, different words.
Same vision, different words.
We're getting somewhere, and I am not at all pessimistic about the human race.
I think that the old car is going to shake and rattle a lot in the next 25 or 30 years, but this is a case of someone being born here, not somebody dying.
Having said all that, there are people like Scallion, as you know, who predict Earth changes, that they too say could be very positive out on the other end.
But along the way, all that shaking is going to cause a lot of human misery, so... Well, I brought the word shaking into it for obvious reasons.
We're not going there without misery.
You go down the birth canal, it can't be fought, let's face it.
I mean, you look at what babies look like when they're born.
That's not fun.
Well, that's sure not the way Mom remembers it.
And it's hard for Mom, too.
And look at old Mom.
I mean, she's having a hard time.
The Earth is.
I was just reading the other day in USA Today that the rate of extinctions of species on this Earth is 50 to 100 times greater than it was anticipated that it would be in 1985.
Because of the expansion of humanity.
You know, I'm not a believer.
I was a big environmentalist ten years ago.
So we're close.
Well, I don't think it matters anymore.
I think it's gone so far that you're wasting your time.
I mean, you can't put a Band-Aid on Niagara Falls.
You know, it's interesting.
That's about where I got to with John Lear.
And you know, he concluded... He still investigates ufology and follows it, but he's kind of retired.
And his attitude, Whitley, is...
Look, enjoy your family, live your life, take it a day at a time, what's going to happen you can't prevent.
Yeah, that's right.
But I think that... You sound just like him.
Well, yeah, I think that you do get a little bit more fatalistic as time goes on in that sense because you begin to see the scale of what's happening here.
It's so huge that It's beyond world historical events.
It's events larger than history, in a sense.
In a way, what we're looking at is mankind in the process of reaching a state that's kind of beyond history, where the mind of man has made an evolutionary leap so great that it is extratemporal We're going to have to hold it right there.
We're going to have a break.
We'll be right back.
Whitley Strieber is my guess.
I'm not sure.
I'm not sure.
71222 or the wildcard line at 702-711-7000.
This is the CBC Radio Network.
It is indeed, I'm Art Bell.
You need not put up with spots on, uh, water spots on Fieber, and a fascinating interview, uh, more of it coming up in a moment.
Headaches, neck aches, sports injuries, low back discomfort.
Whitley Fieber is my guest, and we've got a, um, we're gonna get to the phones here shortly, everybody.
Be patient.
We're going to go through some rapid-fire important questions, hopefully, and then we're going to get to the phone.
So, stand by.
Jody in Hawaii writes, Whitley, that she bought a few years ago Communion.
Scared us badly.
She couldn't finish reading it.
She didn't even want it in the house.
Got rid of it.
Now, because of Dreamland, she's getting ready to read it again.
And I just thought you'd like to know that.
Well, I think she should read Ringford.
Oh, do you?
Absolutely, because that's... I mean, why bother with meaning and transformation when I've got breakthrough net?
Yeah, that's true.
Alright, here comes some tough... I'm going to ask some fast questions.
Hopefully I can get some fast answers, and we can go to the phones.
Okay.
You said you'd had... really were ready to have nothing more to do with UFO research, and now you seem to be back changing your mind.
Yes.
Why?
Well, for two reasons.
I backed away from this whole thing because there was so much, as far as the UFO research goes, there was so much hostility towards me and the UFO community and fear that I could not function.
And therefore, I mean, there was nothing to do but back off.
It was unbelievable.
I still don't understand quite what happened.
It's over now.
I mean, people aren't like that toward me anymore.
They realize that I'm...
I guess so.
They've just gotten used to it.
So it's safe to be back.
But the more critical thing was this.
I was terribly concerned that the visitors were evil and that the human mind had to accept their presence in order for them to really penetrate our reality and that I was a shill for these things.
I did not want that.
I did not want to be Uh, someone who was opening people's minds to something that we in the end could not handle.
And I just basically backed off in 1989 at a moment when things were just on the edge of really, I think there was really going to be a big, big change.
And I just backed off because I was not ready for that.
I did not know what would happen.
Okay.
You made lots of comments that insiders have approached you with unreleased information.
Is that true?
And can you tell us any more about it or is it still undercover?
It's a complicated situation.
I've been approached by lots of insiders, ranging from the leaders of different countries to people inside the various parts of the United States government that are referring to this in different ways, to congressional investigators investigating them and trying to put pressure on me to give me their names, etc.
So it's been a long, boring I'm not very interested in it.
What I can say is this.
There is a very complicated and pretty big thing in the United States, within the government and outside of it, that knows a lot about the UFO business, studies it and has used it in various ways, and has a pretty unsuccessful relationship with the visitors.
I'll show you how I'm successful.
If you go to places near certain military bases, like the Antelope Valley down in California around Edwards, you will find that the ordinary people out there have horrible encounter experiences, almost exclusively.
You go to a place like the Hudson Valley, where I live, and the experiences are still difficult, but they're very livable and they're very interesting by comparison.
The reason is that the way the visitors around those bases and that are connected with those bases are is very, very different from the ways that the ones that are not connected with the bases are because apparently you're looking at an incredibly tough military operation around those bases and something much more humane and much more viable.
Well, I can't imagine a military involvement with the visitors being benign.
Being what?
Benign.
I think it's a disaster.
I think they are locked in a disastrous relationship that they can't get out of, and they have jumped to the conclusion that it's going to be like that for everybody, when it actually isn't.
Loads of people, not just in this country, but all over the world, are learning to really work with this.
And that means not saying it's demons, and not saying it's angels, but learning to work with it on their own terms, without regard to who cares what the visitors are, or aliens are, or not doing.
The point is, what do I get out of it?
Maybe when Eisenhower was warning about the military-industrial complex, he was talking about them.
Well, he could have been.
I don't know.
So the military is involved, obviously.
Yeah, but there's a lot of private money involved there, too.
It's not just the military.
Like, for example, recently the National Reconnaissance Office was caught by Congress with a $1 billion slush fund hidden.
That's right.
And I'm pretty sure that slush fund had to do with this.
Because I said to these guys in the Congress years ago, I said, look, don't bother me looking for the names of people.
I can't help you.
But, you go look for the, follow the money trail.
You follow the money trail at Area 51 and you'll get to the bottom of this.
And that's what they've been to.
You know that's where I am, by the way.
Right out next door.
Yeah, I know you are.
Well, they found out already that a lot of that thing out there isn't funded by the United States government.
it's not the funding, the expenses that are being incurred out there
are not fully covered by the US Treasury and I don't think they know yet how that money comes
You know about the recent autopsy video, do the creatures depicted therein look familiar to you?
I'll tell you, there's one thing about it, just very succinctly one thing and only one is familiar
That is, the covers over the eyes that are removed.
Yes.
I've seen humanoids with eyes just like that.
They were so striking to me, I had a painting made of myself with eyes like that.
Because, of course, I didn't realize they were contact lenses.
I thought they were the eyes.
And that painting is on the cover of a report on Communion.
And I described some of those beings in Breakthrough that I saw.
Okay.
Next step.
And only if the film stock is actually from 1957 or before.
1947?
No, no.
1957 or before.
Tell you what, Super X-Pan stopped being made in 1957.
The film stock is Super X-Pan.
I've had that confirmed by an expert in film stock who could tell just by looking at the quality of the gray colors of the black and white film what stock it was.
You're well aware of the Shell report.
The Shell Report.
No, I'm not.
Bob Shell.
He was an FBI analyst, Whitley, and he took some of the actual imagery, not the lead, but the imagery, and he was given that, and he said two things.
One, it was from that particular year.
He pinned it down all the way to 1945 to 7 and said, because of the kind of film it was, it would have had to have been exposed within That's what Kodak told me also.
However, the film stock I have already determined could be completely counterfeited today from the get go.
It could be seamlessly counterfeited.
What you have to do is you have to find a way to date the chemicals that are in the stock that you're given.
That has not been done yet.
That type of laboratory analysis has not, to my knowledge, been done.
However, I will say this.
If the stock is definitely that old, there's not a recently constructed counterfeit, then I think it has to be real, because I don't think those eye coverings would be something someone could have dreamed up then.
It's too unusual a detail.
See what I mean?
Oh, yes.
Well, I've heard people speculate those were, in effect, sunglasses that, of course, our sun might produce rays that they couldn't handle.
Well, I've seen them wearing them at night, so you figure out what kind of glasses they are.
I don't know what they are.
Really?
Another thing though, and don't forget this, there are people with incredible resources involved in this thing, doing things and trying to do things with it that are absolutely beyond belief.
I mean, in terms of using it as a means of controlling human society and controlling the way our thoughts.
There may even be human beings from the future intervening in this state at this point.
And from the distant past, when there was apparently a very extraordinary civilization on this planet
some thousands of years ago.
How likely is it that we are confusing altogether beings from another place with beings from another time?
It's of course possible.
And since the visitors have a completely breathtaking command of movement through time
who knows where they come from in terms of time.
However, with regard to this Roswell footage, until the chemicals themselves are not just the type of film that's identified, but the chemicals are needed to that period.
It's not certain that it's genuine.
I would say that it's about an 80% chance that it's genuine.
But the 20% is a big 20% because there are people out there with the resources and the
motivation to go to the trouble of counterfeiting that film on empty celluloid.
Absolutely counterfeiting it from the get-go.
I will give you without question that they have the resources.
Let me question you about the motivation.
In other words, why would they do that?
They would do that to first convince the world to put out the film, the thing that's put out, which is a hugely rated thing.
It was incredibly convincing to the public.
Reveal it to be a fraud.
To pull a rug out from under the whole UFO thing.
It would do that.
At least in part.
It's not full.
But I have only got one question.
If that's true, then why did the alien look so totally different from everything everybody's been describing from the beginning?
I know.
Why not make it something... Look like one of the greys?
I've seen them many times.
They don't look like that at all.
That's right.
No, I've wondered about the same thing.
And the sort of...
Uncomfortable similarity to a human being in so many ways, and yet enough subtle differences to give you the heebie-jeebies when you first saw it.
So, um... Yeah.
Very interesting.
Alright, look, you said in older books that the visitors showed you something, a box with a red button on it, maybe, or something like that.
Yeah.
You couldn't remember what they said it was for, but were told that it was important that you would remember When the time comes.
Is that true?
And do you remember what the mission was?
They haven't lied to me about a thing like that yet.
And I've often been very greatly surprised when the answers came.
I don't know yet.
I don't have an answer to that, but I would like to know.
All right.
I would like to turn over questions to the audience.
They're supposed to get a crack at you, and if they don't, I get hung.
So let's try it.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Whitley Streber.
Hi.
Hi.
Where are you, sir?
I'm in Vancouver, British Columbia.
Very good.
Go ahead.
Yeah, I'd just like to know if he's ever read any of Zachariah Sitchin's books.
Yes.
The Twelfth Planet or Genesis Revised?
Revisited, yes.
I had him on the air, Zachariah, on the air, as a matter of fact, with Lee last week.
Well, I met him a few weeks ago, and he turns out to be a really brilliant man.
Oh, yes, yes, indeed.
And I read his books, yes, and my thought is that Sitchin is on to something for a very simple and straightforward reason.
He's on to something because if you look at the historical record, you will find All of the greatest works in stone of mankind date from the beginning of civilization, when we supposedly could hardly even make a pot.
What is that about?
It just doesn't make sense that the Baalbek platform has got stones in it that are so large that we still could not move them.
That's right.
That the methodology by which the Pyramid of Giza was built is unknown.
That the means by which the sarcophagus in that pyramid was hollowed out.
They used a drill press with an 8 ton weight to core that sarcophagus.
We've got the cores.
The angle of declension on those cores indicates the presence of an 8 ton drill press.
There's a big problem with that.
This was an early Iron Age thing.
They did not know how to make any kind of metal that could withstand an 8-ton press against granite.
So, really a lot of what he says underscores a lot of what you're saying and vice versa.
Oh yeah!
He's onto something, I'm sure of it.
Okay, he said, you know about Hale-Bopp, the comet out there?
Yeah.
Beyond Jupiter.
He said he thought Hale-Bopp is not the 12th planet, but it is a harbinger of its coming.
Well, it's an interesting phenomenon, Hale-Bopp, because it's going to be a A major comet, apparently, and cometary passages are associated also with great change, especially when the comets are unknown, as this one indeed was.
It seems to have come out of nowhere.
I do not view the universe as being an accident at all.
I don't think that the Earth-Moon planetary system was even created by accident, simply
because of the fact that, and I'm only speaking now from the standpoint of statistical analysis,
the likelihood of a system like this coming about is so small that it's almost a vanishing
point.
Because you see, we don't live just on the Earth.
We live in a machine that's built of the Earth and the Moon together.
The Moon's rotating around the Earth in the direction it does, and with just the right
amount of gravitational pull on the Earth is what slows the rotation-driven winds of
this planet down to the point where life can exist.
If there was no Moon, We would have a continuous 300 mile an hour maelstrom going on around this planet.
There would be no higher life forms on Earth.
You need not go any further in describing the apparent perfection.
It is that.
Somebody did it!
Okay, well there's where I'm going.
Now, are you adding a case up that talks about a creator or intervention of beings Who themselves have been created?
Well, I will tell you this, that what my experience has led me to is the realization that there is somebody out there who, for want of a better word, I would call God, who is not only incredibly ancient and great, but also extremely personal.
Extremely personal.
More personal than I can express.
Most of us feel it.
It's hard to express.
You just feel that relationship.
You sure do.
I think that this being is creating companions.
It's alone, and it wants companionship, and that's what we're all about.
I wonder when we graduate to companionship status.
I think we've just started to take off, finally.
and and and uh... or or banning all of our old mythologies and coming face to face
with what's going to turn out to be the most extraordinary friend you can ever imagine
almost almost the uh... almost the premise of uh... two thousand one
almost but even less mythological than that I think it's going to be incredibly personal.
That this relationship between the individual and God is going to be like the deepest, oldest, most perfect, most difficult, most beautiful, most sentimental, most objective marriage that could ever exist.
On that note, relax.
You've got several minutes.
Whitley Strieber is my guest.
I'm well aware you're going to want a copy of this interview.
If you do, you can get it by calling 1-800-917-4278.
I'm going to repeat that number, and I will not repeat it again, so perhaps at the end of the show, take it down.
I know you want a copy.
It's 1-800-917-4278.
1-800-917-4278. This is CBC.
1-800-917-4278. This is CBC.
I've heard that if you have been abducted once, then you'll be kept track of, or in all likelihood you will, for the rest of your life.
Is that, do you think, a general truth?
Well, I think that in my own life, the evidence I see of that is that wherever I go, and this has been documented not only by me, but by many other people, it's in many lives, Walking under street lights, driving under them, they will go out.
Electronic appliances are affected by my presence.
There's even an organization in England for people who have this phenomenon around them.
And there has to be a reason for it.
I think we must be giving off some kind of a signal.
My guess is this would be why.
Well, whatever it is, stay away from my network.
One other question.
I have believed for many years that man is a transitional being, not final.
This is another fact.
The step from man to Superman, if you will, is the next approaching achievement in the Earth's evolution and it's inevitable, because it is at once the intention of the inner spirit and the logic of nature's process.
Maybe we don't need any computers or metal aerobatics to prepare us for the next man.
Maybe we don't need religions.
Spiritualism or anything else.
Maybe perhaps being is enough.
Do you agree or are those tools to take us up the steps?
Well, I think that what we need and the reason we're not, the main reason that we're not like that now is that there has to be, we have to be at peace with ourselves internally.
I mean, I'm not talking about peace in Bosnia necessarily.
But enough people have to come to the point where they are in effect not afraid to see themselves as they are, which includes seeing the whole presence of their soul across all of time and everything that it has done and the whole significance of its life.
That's being at peace with yourself.
When you're at peace with yourself in that way and you can see that clearly across what in some of the old esoteric traditions is called the long
time. It's referred to in Ecclesiastes, not in the same words but in the significance of that
particular book of the Bible.
Then you begin to ascend into this hyper-dimensional mind that we've been talking
about. But that's what you have to get to. It's really a matter of finding that kind of... That's
why the visitors said to me, one of the few things they've ever said in clear language was,
have joy. Have joy. Find joy. It's really hard to do. The world is like a test.
There is no doubt about it.
It is constantly pulling you down and pulling you down and pulling you down, so that when you do come to joy, it will be your joy, it will be something you have taken from the universe and brought into your heart forever.
Uh, you said hyper-dimensional.
Yeah.
Uh, so obviously the name Richard Hoagland comes immediately to mind, and you mentioned Bosnia, and do you find it a little more than passing curious, as Mr. Hoagland does, and did recently, that the Bosnian peace talks of all places are being held at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base?
Very unlikely.
Well, Not that unlikely.
It's possible.
There's two reasons it's not that unlikely.
First reason, that it's an extremely secure environment because there's so many very secret things that have gone on there.
Second, is it possible that there's some kind of a contact point with visitors there?
These people are being exposed to it?
Because if they are being exposed to it, they're going to come out with a very, very extraordinary... There are going to be some changes in Bosnia, believe me.
Well, the hypothesis given by Mr. Hoagland was Put simply, you take them down the long elevator to the bottom, and you show them some secrets that make their little squabble look like absolute baloney, and he was hoping there could be some camera shots of them, if there is an agreement, and their faces as they come out, just to try and judge what it is they might have seen.
It's a fascinating hypothesis.
Well, indeed, and I was also struck by it.
I thought it was very strange that That Wright Pat had been chosen, and I even made some inquiries about it among friends who might or might not know what the, why, and the theory was that it was so secure.
So I immediately started asking, well, why is it so secure?
Why that particular airbase would be so secure?
And it's always the most secure facility in the United States.
Camp David's very secure too.
Not that secure.
Not as secure as Wright Pat.
I asked about Camp David, I asked about There's another real secure one, another base that's got a lot of high level security there, but this is the most secure.
Alright, well we'll leave it there.
They wouldn't tell me why.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Whitley Streber, hi.
Yeah, hi Art, hi Whitley.
I wanted to ask you if you've ever looked at the connection between the psychedelic experience and UFO contact or alien abduction.
That's not a bad question.
Where are you, please?
In California.
The reason I'm asking this is because I've done a lot of work with psychedelics for my own spiritual development and to improve my intelligence and so on.
I've noticed, especially with the tryptamine psychedelics, such as psilocybin mushrooms, DMT, and so on, this is a motif that comes up very frequently, is the motif of the little man with big eyes.
Often, there's some high-tech... Alright, we've got it.
We've got it.
Believe me, we've got the question.
Are chemicals one path?
Terence McKenna told me the same thing that this listener is telling me, that psilocybin brought this motif up.
It's interesting.
I think that there's definitely an interdimensional aspect to this thing.
It's almost like a vibratory level in the body that apparently these drugs can change.
Some of them can change this and you begin to be able to look into other worlds.
But you can do that without the drugs, I think.
But they are a path.
I mean, we're not going to... No, I don't know what they're a path into, whether they're a path into memory, or they're a path into really an ability to look into another world, or not.
No, they are an altered state.
Or an altered state.
I do know one thing, that the whole way this country deals with drugs is nuts.
It's crazy.
We're in Looney Land when it comes to that.
We have not figured out how to Deal with these substances, but these substances are so powerful and many of them are so new or so new to this society that it's not surprising that we don't deal very well with it yet.
Give us time.
Hopefully, maybe in the next evolution.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Whitley Streber.
Hi.
Hello Art, this is Dave from Cape Coral, Florida.
Cape Coral, Florida.
All right.
Yeah, I was wondering if your guest could tell us anything about the Philadelphia Experiment.
He seems to know something about time travel.
Alright, Whitley, what do you know about the Philadelphia Experiment?
Did something back then really happen or do you think not?
I don't have an answer to that question as to whether or not something really happened.
I do feel that experimentation with super high intensity magnetic fields suggests that there
can be warping of space-time connected with that.
However, what is strange about the Philadelphia experiment is that the intensity of the fields
that I'm talking about is far greater than anything that we can achieve now.
So whether or not they could have actually gotten a magnetic field going that was that
powerful then, I don't know.
However, you then get immediately into the suppressed work of Nikola Tesla.
And once you start to talk about Tesla, then you get into a whole different ball of wax with regard to things like that.
And the answer then becomes a lot of unusual stuff.
simply because there's no way to tell what the significance of Project HAARP would be
to the natural environment and to the ionosphere.
And they say, well, the actual amount of energy involved is so insignificant compared to the amount of energy in the atmosphere.
But who knows?
Yeah, who knows?
That's right.
I feel the same way.
Yeah, who knows?
And so you think they may be tampering with forces that they have no moral, ethical right to be tampering with without our permission?
Without our permission.
Spending our money on this without our permission.
This whole secret, this whole black budget.
The whole thing.
It's a cancer that's grown up on the body of this American Republic and it should be exercised.
We should have only a line item budget.
Some of it could be classified as line item by line item.
No more great big black hole to drop $50 billion a year into.
That sounds good, but it's not going to happen.
No, it's not, and I'll tell you why it's not.
Because the politicians, the people in power, they like that black hole to drop a lot of money into their own districts and so forth.
Oh, of course.
And in addition to that, The FBI gets stuff on these guys, and they come under control.
And they come to the point where there's things they can and can't do.
I mean, I've seen that happen with federal judges right in my hometown.
All right, let's go back to the phones.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Whitley Strieber.
Hi.
Hi, this is John from Torrance, California.
Torrance, yes.
Living on COGO.
Yes, sir.
I'd like to quickly address a question one of the other callers addressed that would be Uh, when these things, uh, put probes in you to track you, you can short-circuit that.
Um, the fact of the matter is, uh, I was from Rockland County, New York.
I'm sure Whitley knows where that is.
Yeah, sure.
Um, I had an experience when I was about 13.
I was abducted and, and as you know, you know how that goes.
So anyway, years later, through the occult, I know there's a big connection between the UFO phenomenon and the occult.
It's linked very closely.
And I know I've read in Whitley's books that you study witchcraft and the sort.
I went through a period of that years ago.
I looked into that some years ago to write a novel about it.
Right.
And I found that it really enhanced the experience and I was able to cut off...
What do you mean?
Well, I was having communications with these things and then I was told
that I should stop this channeling I was doing and this communication because
it was an abomination and I was told religious things and I've spoken to a major UFO organization
and they've wanted to meet me and they told me not to tell anybody about this because it's...
because people aren't ready to hear it.
Well then what are you doing on a radio show?
Alright, well I get where this caller's going.
Yeah, I do too.
I will say this about the issue of implants.
There's now, I think, one of the MUFON groups, maybe it was the Houston MUFON, He has videotaped the removal of implants from a couple of people, and there's an individual out on the West Coast who had the removal of an implant in him videotaped.
So yeah, in a very practical way, these things apparently do exist and occasionally can be found, usually when they obstruct a person's functioning somehow, when they're not hidden well enough, they can be removed.
The connection between this and the occult, though, and I do want to address this just for a minute.
Good.
I mean, there's obviously the guy that was calling has got fundamentalist Christian beliefs.
Yeah, it was obvious.
Which are fine.
I mean, they may be true.
I don't know whether they are or not.
I'd be the last person to say they weren't.
Betty Luca, who I love and respect deeply, is a very fundamentalist Christian and does a great job with this experience.
Anyway, there is some kind of connection.
There seems to be some kind of connection between, for example, old pagan or pre-Christian religious sites in Europe and UFO activity or crop circle activity and that sort of thing.
What that connection means, I don't know.
Okay, let me stop you there.
I'm glad you answered that way because my question now is, okay, having said that, Whitley, isn't it possible, and don't you wonder, and are you not concerned sometimes, That the people or things or beings you're dealing with are indeed from the dark side.
Yeah, that's why I dropped out for so many years.
Because I was afraid that they were and that I was operating as a conduit to draw them into our world.
So what's changed?
What's changed was that I demanded that they show me.
what they did and they did that. That's why I wrote Breakthrough because I went through
this. I went through ten months of living. There was one of these little humanoid type
beings living in our cabin every night and in fact living in the place during the day
even. We didn't see him during the day but we damn well came close. I got to know a lot
about this and what they were doing.
Well, I admit that the fundamentalists always are saying to me, well, the demons could be very tricky.
That's true.
But what I found were people who were, when I say people, I'm talking about visitors who were just as scared and having just as much trouble in their own way with this as I was, who were imperfect in the sense that I could see lots of different ideologies of contact from different places around.
I've read over 100,000 letters from people.
around the world have this experience.
It's different from place to place.
It's not the same all over the world.
It's like different visitors have different personalities and different personalities
produce different types of contact experience.
In other words, it's more like humans than demons.
I understand, but you would say now you've got nothing more left than some nagging doubts?
No, I think that they are very tough, and they are very difficult to deal with, but that we can get... I got things I consider incredibly valuable to me out of this, and there were two ways I did that.
One was by working through my fears and coming to love the part of me that is afraid and not to try to push it away.
Right.
And two is keeping the questions open about what was happening to me and what this was.
I learned to seek out the questions I couldn't stand not to answer and to live with them.
And those two things are what helped me to expand my mind.
And I think my mind is expanding because of this.
Interesting chronology.
All right.
Stand by, Whitley.
We're at the bottom of the hour again.
My guest is Whitley Strieber.
Boy, what an interview.
If you want a copy of this, it's 1-800-917-4278.
It's 1-800-917-4278.
We'll be right back.
From the kingdom of Nod, you're hearing new members.
Back now to Whitley Strieber.
What an interview.
It has been a good one, Whitley.
You're an easy interview.
Whitley, the bigger picture for a second.
You said eventually humans will, in effect, evolve past perhaps even their physical bodies.
How far are we from this kind of change?
I don't think we're far from it at all.
My guess is that the evolutionary process has started Probably even hundreds of years ago and that some of our visitors could very well be people who are entered into and living in this state already.
I know that I've encountered occasionally human beings in the context of the visitors who seem to be completely comfortable in the situation they were in.
I have had encounters with people who were working with the visitors who in their everyday life did not know it.
And I'm an absolutely confirmed encounter of that and breakthrough.
Is that to suggest that occasionally today that a person, a mortal person, as though some switch is thrown, takes the leap?
Absolutely.
I think it happens all the time.
I think that gradually, right now, we probably live about 95%, 90% on this level.
That at some time in the future we'll be living on this level like 5% and 90% another level.
There's also another interesting thing about this.
I referred to earlier in the interview the relationship between this and the near-death experience.
Yes.
Something I learned from my letters, I have not had too much direct experience of this
myself, is that there is a big connection between encounter with aliens and encounter
with the dead.
The two come together sometimes.
To give you an example, a family is at home.
The son is asleep on the second floor.
The parents are downstairs with the dog.
The dog becomes very nervous.
The wife starts to take the dog out.
As she steps out onto the porch, she sees a huge ball of light go flying away from the
upstairs of the house out across the woods.
The little boy comes downstairs yelling, Mommy, Daddy, little blue men came into my room and
they had his older sister with them.
She said to tell you that she is okay.
She had died recently, just a few weeks previously.
So it is connected.
There is some kind of connection, yes.
You know what he's found, the Cydonia region on Mars.
Now, newer findings on the moon.
The existence of these 500,000 year old ruins would seem to tie in with exactly what you're saying about a past sophisticated civilization here on Earth.
Oh yeah.
Lots of evidence.
First of all, the face on Mars is absolutely central to my own encounter experience.
In the new book, I just finished The Secret School, it starts with my relationship to
the face on Mars.
In 1985, Dick Hoagland and Dr. John Gleidman showed me the pictures that Vince DiPietro
and Greg Molnar had created out of the digital data from the Viking orbiter.
And that face staring up from Cydonia was a stunning thing.
Thank you.
And I embraced that immediately, and I gave Brian O'Leary and Dr. Mark Carlotto money to do a more complete study of it.
Dr. Carlotto is an imaging expert, and I think everyone knows that Brian was going to be the Mars astronaut.
And they did the study that led to the even more detailed photograph of the face that shows almost like teeth in the mouth and so forth.
They published their results in the Journal of British Interplanetary Society and they proved conclusively, at least, that the face is definitely an anomalous object and should be studied further.
And yet, as Mr. Hoagland is quick to point out, NASA goes out of its way to avoid any further look at the Cydonia region.
There's only one explanation for that.
You talk to people at JPL, anyone talking off the record will say the face has got to be studied further.
The fact that they have not only avoided studying it... It's beyond belief.
Two probes, I mean three probes, the two Prometheus probes that Russia sent and the spacecraft,
the recent orbiter that we sent have all mysteriously been destroyed.
You talk about a civilization 500,000 years in the past.
When I saw Dick a couple of weeks ago I said, hell, I think Mars is still alive.
I'm serious about that.
The Russians, they have video of an object approaching their probe just before it disappeared
as it was on its way to analyze the moon for us.
I've heard that.
Well, I've seen the video.
The video is publicly available.
It's no secret.
The Russians themselves... NASA says it's an artifact of the tape.
The Russians themselves say absolutely not that it's an object approaching the craft.
Well, everything is an artifact of the tape.
Remember STS-48?
Yeah.
There's only one explanation for why NASA does what it does.
They know something that they don't want us to know.
All right.
Ease to the Rockies.
You're on the air with Whitley Strieber.
Hello.
Yes.
This is Dorothy in Louisville, Kansas.
Hi, Dorothy.
Yes.
Oh, what an interesting guest.
Mr. Strieber, you mentioned one time about the three NOCs.
I've been experiencing this now very...
Frequently.
Three either three knocks on the door, three knocks on the wall, or the phone ringing three times.
Nobody's there.
Also, on one of my encounters, they were explaining to me how we are all asleep, and our future is really our past.
And then we would come awake.
That we're reliving our past at this time.
Or that time, at the time it happened.
By the way, I have also been given something from them.
It is three blue rocks that vibrate.
Oh, really?
Yes.
Well, that's really interesting that you've been given anything.
I was given a little black stone that's beautifully carved.
It's a little egg-shaped black stone, but there's nothing unusual about it in terms of it might be able to say it's definitely an artifact from another world.
Well, mine are blue, and they definitely vibrate.
They tingle.
If you hold them in your hand, they get extremely hot.
Well, it's certainly better than I visited the aliens and all I got was this lousy t-shirt.
Yeah, right.
In communion, I talked a lot about threes.
You know, Buckminster Fuller considered the building block of the universe.
It's a positive force and a negative force opposing each other in balance and creating a third force.
In Christianity we have the idea of the Trinity.
In some of the older religions there were different ideas of the Triune God or the Triune Goddess and different trinities.
This idea of the two being in balance to create the third I'm going to make you now.
to the visitor experience.
I don't want to plug books.
What I want to plug is the human future.
I think we have an incredible future and the thing we need to do is whatever we can to get ready for it, whatever that means to you, whether it's read my books or I'll make you plug those.
whatever you feel you need to do but to get ready for it because I think this lady is
right.
You're asleep.
Let's wake up.
What of your books, Whitley, is the most important one people could read?
Right now, Breakthrough.
I would say read breakthrough.
Don't bother to read Communion and Transformation.
All of us in the experience went through that together.
We went through the Communion level of the thing of absolute fear, the Transformation level of the thing of starting to find handles where we could start to work this thing.
Breakthrough shows the beginning of the tools that we'll be able to use to really make this work for ourselves.
Without regard to whether the visitors are good or evil, have it in for us or don't have it in for us, that doesn't matter.
That doesn't matter.
We can use this.
Breakthrough they can find anywhere?
Anywhere, yeah.
It's in the hardcover and it'll be in paperback probably next summer.
All right, good.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Whitley Strieber.
Hello.
Hello!
Yes sir, where are you?
I'm calling from Marin in California.
All right.
Yeah.
And I've been a big fan for quite a long time.
I've read most of his books.
And one thing I wanted to ask, you were talking about other races and I was wondering what races are you talking about?
Other races besides the gray.
Oh, OK.
I can tell you what I've seen.
I've seen the greys in two forms.
One is tall.
I've also seen other blonde beings that had very strange kind of empty faces and were shorter.
I have seen and been close to human-like beings who were about three and a half feet tall, whom I at first took to be children but weren't.
Obviously children when I got more clear about what they were.
The one time I saw one of them up close, I thought it was a child sitting under a tree in the woods behind my old house in New York.
I walked up to him thinking he was smoking a cigarette.
He had something between his fingers.
When I leaned over, I saw obviously that I was dealing with something very, very strange.
He opened his mouth and growled and scared the hell out of me.
I ran away.
I didn't do it.
I ask all the researchers I talk to, what's most likely that they're visitors from our future, or visitors from elsewhere, and the most frequent answer I get is, probably both.
Well, I'll tell you what I think they are, just to sum it up quickly.
Some of them are from elsewhere.
Some of them are born and raised here, but essentially from non-human origin.
Some of them are from our future.
Human and non-human.
Some of them are from our past.
Human and non-human.
Our own dead are involved in this and are actively participating.
What's happening is huge.
It's massive.
What would you say to the average person?
If they are on the edge of or beginning to experience an encounter, would you say A. Embrace it and go with it or B. Run like hell?
Neither, I would say.
Take what you can from it, but be cautious and be wise, because if you embrace this totally, you're making yourself out to be a fool.
If you run from it, you're wasting it.
So go for it.
Take what you can from it.
Be careful.
Take each wary step, one at a time.
Exactly.
Take it a step at a time.
I've got you.
All right.
East of the Rockies, not a lot of time.
You're on the air with Whitley Strieber.
Hello.
Yeah, this is Dave in Illinois.
Hi, Dave.
Hi.
And I was wondering if... Well, you were talking about the past sophisticated civilization.
Yeah.
Yes.
And in light of the things on Mars and on the Moon, did you see any correlations between The statement at the end of Transformation and the ancient language thing?
Oh, at the end of Transformation there's a statement in, I believe Betty Luca had uttered some words that she heard the visitors saying.
And I discovered that these were Gaelic, in the old Gaelic-Irish language.
And they meant, children of the northern peoples, you wander in eternal darkness.
And this is a very old, ancient language.
Many of the words in it are very prototypical.
You could be talking about a language that's one of the very oldest of human languages.
So yeah, there could be some kind of connection.
Incredible.
Well, Whitley, it sounds like Whitley Strieber is really back in top form.
And we're glad to have you back.
Well, I'm excited to be back because there was a time when I thought I never would again, and I had given up entirely, but the visitors never gave up on me, and that's why I'm back.
Well, it's great to have you, and I'm honored to have been able to interview you, and it went so well that I would beg that we do it again someday.
Oh, well, you don't need to beg.
We'll do it.
Whitley, thank you so very much.
Oh, it's been a pleasure, Mark.
Take care, my friend.
You too.
Uh, well, wasn't that something?
Um, I'm going to give you a little bit of information prior to the ending of the show here.
That was, of course, Whitley Strieber, and I well understand, because of the massive faxes I'm getting, uh, that a lot of you are going to want copies of this very important program.
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