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Nov. 17, 1995 - Art Bell
01:54:08
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Wayne Green
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I'm Art Bell.
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It is. Good morning everybody, I'm Art Bell.
From the high desert to the nation, this is Coast to Coast AM.
The granddaddy of ham radio, coming up.
The irrepressible Wayne Green.
We'll tell you all about them in just a moment.
All the way from New Hampshire, getting up early.
The great-grandfather of ham radio.
A man who probably sent the first signals with sparks.
A man who has been a supporter and honorary member of the Amateur Radio Relay League Board of Directors nearly since day one, owner and publisher of QST Magazine, it's Wayne Green!
QST, what's that?
How are you doing, Wayne?
Just fine.
How are you this morning?
I thought I'd stick one in you right here at the beginning, sort of set the tone.
A man who has always followed the lawful orders of the ARRL.
A lot of people don't know what I'm doing to you here.
Are you the publisher owner of 73, or just a publisher, or what's the deal?
Yeah, I'm the editor and publisher of 73 Magazine.
Which I started in 1960.
Why did you do that, by the way?
What got you going to publish 73?
Oh, good heavens.
That'll fill up your whole four hours.
No, let's not do that.
Give me the short version.
Well, the very short version is that back around 1949, I got interested in amateur radio teletype.
Had a lot of fun with that and said, gee, somebody out there has got to put out a newsletter on this to get more activity.
And I looked around and there wasn't someone.
So I said, oh, heck.
And at the time I was a television director out at WXCL in Cleveland, Ohio, and they had a mimeograph machine.
So I started Amateur Radio Frontiers, a little newsletter to get people More information about amateur radio teletype.
And that grew very quickly.
And the next thing I knew, I had a column in CQ Magazine, which was one of the two ham magazines at the time.
And then, in 1955, I got the editor of CQ, who hated the publisher, a better job as the editor of Popular Electronics.
And that left CQ without an editor, and I hadn't any thought of that, but pretty soon I had a call from the publisher asking if I wanted to be editor.
So on January 5th, 1955, I became editor of CQ, and five years later I got fired because they owed me over a year's salary.
So I looked around and went to work for a An advertising agency for a while and didn't like that at all.
And decided, heck, I'll start my own magazine.
So I sold all of the toys that I could.
You mean your radios?
No, my Porsche car.
Oh, those kind of toys.
And an airplane and a boat.
And got enough money together to put out the first issue of 73 Magazine in October 1960, or September 1960.
So you did a big roll of the dice.
That's right.
Well, you know, entrepreneurs do that.
So anyway, that got me started and I felt that there was a need for a ham magazine, particularly centered around building things at home and building your own equipment.
And it turned out I was right.
All right.
What I guess I would like to do, because we have an audience made up mostly of non-hams, Well, we'd better tell them what it's about.
We'd better tell them what ham radio is.
When you stand up in front of an audience and address an audience of people who are not hams, and you want to entrance them, you want to interest them, you want to get them going, and tell them why it would be good to pursue a ham license, how do you do it?
Well, there are several aspects to that.
First of all, I try to explain that amateur radio is really a whole bunch of hobbies.
Held together by a license issued by the federal government to use radio frequencies.
Use our radio spectrum.
And amateurs have a whole bunch of different handbands that we can use going through from very low frequencies right on up until the micro microwaves.
So there's a whole bunch of things we can do with this hobby.
Do you believe in adherence to the use of the spectrum as prescribed by the FCC?
Well, now that's a... We want to talk about that for an hour.
I'm going to lead you into a really interesting trap here, Wayne.
Do you generally... I mean, in other words, would you endorse somebody who operates out of band?
Oh, no.
I'm not a big fan of people doing that.
We don't like The government, the way it restricts us on things, but we do have to have some kind of organizing arrangement.
You're falling right into it for me.
I've thought a good deal about this, particularly in the work that I've done up here with the Economic Development Commission.
What is the need for the government?
We do have certain reasons why we have to have government, as rotten as it is.
Yes, sir.
I agree with you again.
All right, so now let me take you down the rest of this path, then we'll get back to AM radio.
The path is, you believe in obeying the FCC regulations as they relate to AM radio, and you don't just cooperate on military frequencies or whatever.
There's got to be some order, in other words.
Oh, absolutely, yes.
Okay, well then, you realize fully, don't you, that these frequencies that we operate on are a matter of treaty.
With other nations.
Yes, I've represented this at the ITU.
I was an official representative at the International Telecommunications Union International Conference.
Exactly so.
So that somebody who would intentionally go and inflict interference, for example, let's say on a military frequency, would get the civilian version of court martial, right?
Yes.
And deservedly so, correct?
Right.
That reflects on my last two hours.
I rest my case.
Now, back to... You know, the other side of that coin is that we had the Nuremberg trials of a bunch of people who said they were following orders.
Yes, sir, I get a lot of faxes just like that.
But you see, going to Macedonia and donning blue and just acting as a trigger uh... of peacekeeping trigger is not the same as uh...
being ordered to put people in gas chambers
well order to order uh... well lawful orders are lawful orders
and i consider michael and has to have been lawful and and certainly putting
people in gas chambers civilians is not lawful order Setting fire to villages in Vietnam is not a lawful order.
Well, and that's a matter of subjective choice.
He didn't think that that was a lawful order.
Anyway, I understand that, and he's paying the price.
Back to AM Radio, Safer Territory.
Why, Wayne, should anybody want to be a ham?
Well, there's a couple of reasons.
Number one, it is enormous fun.
I got hooked on it when I was in my teens, like most hands have, and it has really dominated my life for the last 60 years.
Me too.
So it is just endless opportunities to have fun and adventure.
It is fun, isn't it?
And I've had a lot of adventures as a result of my interest in amateur radio.
It also is the key to success in this life because I think there's been the argument that the world is becoming more and more high-tech.
And amateur radio provides a youngster with the opportunity to get into high-tech and to enjoy it and have fun.
At the same time as learning things that are going to be of enormous value as far as a career is concerned.
I'll tell you something, Wayne, and this I bet is not discussed too frequently, but amateur radio is kind of an old boys club.
There's a lot of networking that goes on, and I can tell you in my career, Wayne, I know for a fact that I've received a number of jobs because I was a ham.
Oh, so have I.
I got to be the secretary of the Music Research Foundation in New York as a result of that, because the Research Foundation was run by the head of a large electric company, and the vice president of that was Graham Claytor, who was a radio teletype app, and I was putting out the radio teletype bulletin.
So I got the new Graham Claytor and when they needed somebody to run the Music Research Foundation I had a good music background so I fit right in and wrote a book for them and had it published and so forth on music as far as psychotherapy is concerned and I also had the psychotherapy background because I'd been a professional psychologist before that.
And another job that I got through Radio Teletype was working on a Guggenheim Foundation grant to provide a color organ.
And you know that weird Frank Lloyd Wright building that they have on 5th Avenue there?
Yes, sir.
Well, the reason that is shaped in that strange mushroom shape Is because the centerpiece was to be the color organ that I was working on.
No kidding.
And that's why they designed it that way, because the whole center of that was going to have this huge color organ in it.
And it was a fascinating device for its time, we're talking 1951, where we had racks and racks of equipment to run projectors, a whole barrage of projectors, each one of which had three different huge, with films in them, So that you could make all kinds of colors and paintings and so forth on this, and run your films forward, backward, at any speed, and so forth.
But that was the centerpiece of the museum.
Well, anyway, I got that job through a radio teletype amp, and things like that have kept happening to me down through the years.
Even though that's not the reason to become a ham, the reason to become a ham is because it's a lot of fun.
Oh, absolutely.
And I'm still not over it.
Wayne, I got my first license when I was 12.
I've been constantly licensed since then.
I'm 50 now, commercially and as a ham.
And the magic has never ended.
To me, still, to this moment, the fact that you can talk to somebody on the other side of the world is absolutely magical.
Radio is magical.
Well, it's also a lot of fun to go to the other side of the world and talk back, which I've done a lot of times.
I've operated from some very weird places.
Well, I've operated from Okinawa's KR6BK for about a decade and had a blast going down in the CW band.
But we're going to glaze over eyes out there again.
How hard is it, Wayne, to become a ham now?
Well, like rolling off a log, I think is the cliche for that.
They have a no-code ham license.
Is that good or bad?
Oh, I think that's good.
So do I. Because I'm not a big fan of the Morse Code.
Nor am I. As being a requirement for getting a license.
I think Morse Code is just dandy for people that enjoy it and want to have fun with it.
And it is a lot of fun to sit there with a key or an automatic key.
And talking this new language.
It's no fun at all.
It's work.
Some people love it.
CW came very easily to me.
Very easily.
But I hated it.
It was slow.
Plotting.
I'm a person of words.
I like to get them out.
And sitting there doing it even at 20.
I can still do 20 words a minute but I hate it.
Well, I have never been a fan of Morse code either, but for a different reason.
I unfortunately have a bent gene or something, which makes it so that I really hate taking orders.
The Navy and I had some arguments over that.
But because it is mandatory for having most of the ham licenses, I just automatically rebelled against it.
And yes, it was easy for me to learn the code.
I had no problem with it.
uh... uh...
matter of fact that when i was in the boy scouts i had to know the code for a
boy scout meeting and so it was getting dressed to go i learned it
and uh... i don't think it took me twenty minutes to learn the code enough
to be able to use it we're gonna get a lot of static here
There's a lot of old-timers who, you know, to them, CW is a religion.
CW is code.
Exactly, and any time you get into a religious argument, all you can say is, there's much to be said on both sides.
Well, bottom line is, you don't object to elimination of code as a requirement to at least get into some level of ham radio.
I have been championing dropping the code as an obstacle to getting a hand license since 1958.
Wow.
You must have been really unpopular then.
Well, that's never stopped me.
No, it hasn't.
And anybody who's read your editorials in 73 for years knows that you've got a bent gene.
Well, I have a couple of them.
One of the reasons that I enjoy putting out the magazine so much is that I have this defective gene which says, gee, if you're enjoying something, let's get some other people to enjoy it, too, and have them have fun.
And so that's a big part of my putting out 73, is because I am having so much fun, and I just have to share it.
Well, if somebody wanted to get into Ham Radio, one of the very first questions you always get is, And it's a valid question these days.
I can't afford it.
Oh, fiddlesticks.
And I'm being polite.
Thank you.
When you go to any one of the ham flea markets, you see wonderful equipment for very inexpensive.
As a matter of fact, you can get your first ham rig for under $200 and have a little handy talking and start getting on the repeaters and talking.
And an old used transceiver and one that was built 20, 30 years ago is just as good as those today as far as the signals are concerned and the way they operate.
So they don't cost much at all for a used transmitter receiver.
All right.
Another question people will say is, all right, no code license.
All right.
So how much study, how much work do I have to put into getting a license to get on the air so I can talk?
Well, we have question and answer manuals which solve that problem and we have, unfortunately I guess, a lot of hams who just memorized the manual and answered the questions and they're fairly simple.
You have to be able to answer questions on Ohm's Law and a few simple things that they, I don't know if they do now, but they used to teach most of the scientific part of it in high school.
and uh... so the first license is a very simple to get you have to know the rules
and regulations and i have a little background on that have some idea of
what the uh...
frequencies are the hand bands and uh... so forth but it's nothing that the person shouldn't
be able to learn in about
or two or three days okay some of the old timers will say
you know where that's leading us It's leading us right down into the same path as the CBers, and Ham Radio will end up being nothing but a big CB band.
I know, I've been hearing that for years.
I know.
So, how do you respond?
Well, I respond to that and say, well, when these people come on the air, it's how you treat them that will govern what kind of operators they are.
Because we have, for instance, in Japan, they have over twice as many hams as we have.
It is true.
Wayne, hold that thought for a moment.
We've got a break here at the bottom of the air, and we'll be right back.
Relax, get a cup of tea or coffee or something, and we'll be right back to you.
Wayne Green, publisher of 73 Magazine, non-trivial guy.
We'll be right back.
You dirty, sweet cat in black, don't you cry, girl I love you.
You dirty, you sweet, oh yeah.
When you're slim and weak, you got the genes of the hive upon you.
You dirty, sweet, and you're my girl.
Get it on, baby, go on, get it on.
Get it on, baby, go on, get it on.
So when you appear, I can call you.
Oh, you got a hard cap, diamond star halo You do like a cow, yeah
We're gonna untame you, that's the truth We got a cloak full of egos
You're dirty, scootin', you're my girl This is the end of side one.
Please leave the cassette exactly where it is, flip it over, and begin again.
Get it on!
There you go!
We're roaming the wild, you got the blues in your shoes and the stockings. You've been the wild out here.
Art Bell is taking calls on the wild card line.
That's 702-727-1295.
First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
702-727-1222.
Now, here again, Art Bell.
Wayne Green, publisher of 73 Magazine, not QST.
First time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
Now, here again, Art Bell.
Wayne Green, publisher of 73 Magazine, not QST.
Boy, that was mean.
He is my guest, and he's kind of a wild man.
and we'll get back to him in just a moment in just one you understand how truly cruel i was to wane
with that open that i gave him that introduction i gave him
uh... because i want to ask about wane uh... what are the current classes of ham licenses that you
can get Well, we start off with the novice license, which is dirt simple to get.
And the technician license, and that is the no-code license, the novice license, requires you to be able to demonstrate that you can copy code at five words a minute, which is so pathetically slow.
I have a booklet that I put out on how to learn the code so that you can pass the test in one hour.
Literally, as soon as you memorize it, you can pass it.
Exactly.
As I say, it took me about 15 minutes to memorize the code.
I give them an hour maximum to be able to copy it five words a minute.
When you sit down for the test, all you have to do is just write down the dots and dashes and then remember what they were.
As a matter of fact, that's better than being able to actually sit there and copy the code at five words a minute, because you want to learn it for 13 words a minute for the next class of license, which is the general class.
You want to, that is just above a plateau of 10 words a minute.
And what happens is this, if you go through the process that many, many hams do, which can be extraordinarily frustrating, is they learn, okay, let's see, da-da-da-dit, that's D. And they set up a look-up table in their mind of the different letters of the code.
And then when they hear da-da-da-dit, they say, hmm, oh yes, that's C, and they write it down.
Well, unfortunately, what you're doing is setting up the look-up table on one side of the brain and writing it down with the other.
And that means that the information has to shuttle back and forth between the left and right hand side of the brain.
Well, you approach the clock speed of the brain Which is about 10 words per minute.
And the fact is that you cannot copy any faster, and they call that a plateau, because when you get up there, you just can't go faster.
And that stops a lot of people.
The 13-word-a-minute requirement is fiendishly desired to be just above that.
And so the truth is, you've got to learn by the sound, and that way you don't have to do the brain conversion.
You hear the sound, it's automatic.
Right.
So I've been putting out tapes to help people do this for many years.
I've got, you know, probably a couple hundred thousand of them out there now.
And what it says is when you sit down to copy the code, copy it at the speed you want to learn.
If you want to learn at 20 words a minute, fine.
Start there.
Don't start at five words a minute and try to gradually build up your speed.
Right.
And you sit down and listen to a mixture of characters coming through.
And when you hear a dip, You write down an E, and then as you keep on going, you write down an E, and it gets to be automatic.
Every time a dip goes by, you write down an E. Sure.
And then you add a T, and when a dash goes by, you hear a da, and you write the T. And after just a few minutes, it's absolutely automatic to write those down.
And you keep adding characters, and you train it so that just, you know, if you're going to type on a typewriter, the Hunton Tech System has limitations.
And that's about the same thing as with Morse Code.
This way, in just a few days, you can learn 20 words a minute, instead of taking years, as some people do.
Alright, so to sum up where we are so far, you can start out by no code, or you can start with the novice license, 5 words a minute, which is the path, I suppose, many would suggest, to the general license, which requires the 13 words a minute.
Now, when you get a general license, you're then allowed to operate a lot more frequencies, Um, and a lot more modes of operation.
In other words, more, a higher license, more privilege, right?
That's correct.
You are able, you're allowed to operate on almost all amateur bands that way.
And there are a few restricted frequencies for the advanced class license, which is also 13 words a minute.
And then we have the extra class license.
Well, before we go past advanced, advanced simply is the same code speed.
But it's a little bit tougher technical test, right?
That's correct.
Okay, and then above that is... Above that is extra class, which requires a 20 word a minute code test, and another even tougher technical test.
And that's the top?
And that's the top.
That doesn't gain you very much over the advanced.
There's just a few little slivers of frequency that you can get.
It's mostly a matter of ego more than Actually getting more frequencies to use.
Right.
And for those who think I've got a crushing ego, and there are many out there, I only have an advanced.
Well, that's what I have.
Now, the reason I led you through all this is because way back when, when I spent all my years on the island of Okinawa operating as KR-6BK, I came home.
Finally decided I had to come home to the United States if I wanted my career to proceed.
And so I did.
And when I got back here, I found out That the ARRL, or the Amateur Radio Relay League, which is the, I guess, the largest organization that represents hams, they say.
Oh, by far, yeah.
Yeah, sure.
Had gone along with the Federal Communications Commissioner, or even convinced them, I'm not sure which way, to take my privileges as a general class ham And reduce them, and create new classes of license.
I was so angry.
I was so angry, Wayne, when I came back, that I used to go on 20 Meters and do broadcasts.
Anti-double RL broadcasts.
I was so angry at the league, and I remain angry, dropped my membership, and I'm still angry about that, to this day.
I mean, I would go make broadcasts on 20 Meters, I would say.
Well, that was the greatest catastrophe in the history of amateur radio.
And it's interesting how it came about.
They had one of the board of directors by the name of Mort Kahn, W2KR.
And he was a multimillionaire as a result of having sold his transmitting manufacturing company to Otis Elevator.
And so he sat on his yacht out in Long Island Sound and became the Hudson Division Director.
From that position, he got the general manager of ARL fired.
But he got him fired and essentially took over the league.
area seven oh two seven two seven one two two two uh... but he got him fired and the specially took over the
league and
in at december of nineteen sixty two
he held an emergency meeting of the board of directors on his yacht
and said look we've got to do something The membership in the league has not grown in 1962.
It's dropped off and we've got to do something.
And we need to do something controversial so that we'll attract attention to the league and get people thinking about it.
And they all sat around and said, well, what should we do?
What should we do?
And they discussed a number of things.
And a fellow by the name of Tom McCann, K2CM, Came up with the idea, hey, let's change the license classes and frequencies a bit and go back to the way it was before World War II, where we had really just two classes of license, Class A and Class B. And so they said, yeah, hey, that's great.
So in the February 1963 issue of QST, the editorial said, We've been looking at the situation in amateur radio, and we find that there's some very serious things wrong.
They never said what they were, but we found some very serious things wrong.
And as a result of that, what we're going to do is propose what we call incentive licensing.
And with this, we're going to take away all of the voice frequencies from all except the highest classes of licenses to advance the next strip.
Right.
They will not, you will not be able to operate on voice on anything but 160 meters and 10 meters and you cannot, you will not be able to operate voice on our main bands of 40, 80 and 20 meters and 15 meters.
Right.
Well, the amateur world responded by tens of thousands of hands saying, I can't go down and take a new test.
I've forgotten everything I knew.
And that means I'm going to have to learn the code again.
And so tens of thousands of them put their equipment up for sale for 10 cents on the dollar.
The result was that within one year, over 85% of the ham distributors in the country, the radio stores, went out of business.
We had, when I started 73 Magazine in 1960, I had over 850 amateur radio stores carrying it on their counters.
This hit in 1963.
By 1964, I was down to 125 stores left in the country.
Wow.
Every major manufacturer of radio equipment went out of business within two years.
Wonderful.
Great effect.
And if the intent was to increase ARRL membership, what happened to the membership after this?
Oh, it dropped.
It dropped a lot.
Because tens of thousands of people just gave up solar equipment and got out of the hobby.
And the sales of amateur equipment dropped 85% in one year.
Wow.
So, no, that was a great catastrophe.
I fought that whole thing for five years, and finally the FCC kind of went halfway and said, okay, we'll take half of the frequencies away, but not all of them.
Yes.
So, if you know, on 20 meters, half of the band is for general class and half of it is for advanced class.
Right.
And so forth.
So I fought that for a long time, but we opened up, we made it so that the manufacturing business went from the United States to Japan as a result of that, and so forth and so on.
By the way, you were mentioning things about bad operating and so forth, and I just started to talk about the Japanese.
About 90% of their licensees over there are no-code licensed.
and they're allowed on all bands with the ten watts of power
and when i operate from some strange place uh... you know like
all uh...
anywhere over in the uh...
in the pacific area from sabah
or brunei or sarawak uh... thailand and things like that i am inundated
by thousands of these japanese amateurs and they are very good operators
They are the best ham operators in the world.
All right, if Wayne Green was the dictator, and you'd make a good one, by the way, of ham radio, and you could either loosen or tighten or change regulations with regard to licensing here in this country, how would you do it?
Well, the first thing I do, of course, is get rid of the Morse Code as an obstacle to getting a license.
Secondly, I would take us to where we had one class of license, and then I would encourage people to learn more because it's fun, not because you have to.
Right.
And point out, hey, look, amateur radio teletype is a blast, but here's what you need to learn to do it.
And packet radio is so much fun, where you're able to type on your computer and send messages anywhere in the world, like the Internet.
You were also, weren't you, Wayne, early, early on with computers, back in the days when it was almost sacrilegious for a ham magazine to enter into the world of computers at all.
You were doing it, and people were raking you over the coals.
Oh, sure, but I was used to that.
We had this disaster in 1963 called incentive licensing.
And up until that time, amateur radio had been growing at 11% per year steadily for 18 years after World War II.
And all of a sudden, we went into a negative growth where we were losing hands by the thousands.
And this went on for several years.
And in 1969, I said, This repeater thing looks like this could be real fun, and maybe we can get the amateurs into this.
And what repeaters are is automatic relay stations, particularly for the high bands, 2 meters, where we stick a receiver and a transmitter on top of a mountain, or a tall building, or a television tower.
And it receives the signals on one frequency and then retransmits them on another.
So you can use a little handheld kind of radio and transmit along distance.
That's right.
A handheld, instead of being able to talk maybe a half a mile or so, all of a sudden could talk a hundred or two hundred miles.
Right.
And I thought that that would be the savior of amateur radio.
So I started publishing articles on how to do this.
And I published them by the hundreds.
And the readers responded immediately with enthusiasm.
They said, if you publish one more damn article on repeaters, I'm going to cancel my subscription.
So, but pretty soon the tide turned and I began to get more and more letters.
Hey, you know, you're right.
This is fun.
Wow.
And by 1972, it was the largest activity in amateur radio in the world.
That's why when the first microcomputer came out in January 1975, I had already published a bunch of articles on computers.
And that's why I said, hey, I had this success with repeaters.
And by the way, it is repeaters and the ham work that made it possible for cellular radio that we have today.
That's a true fact.
And because it was so much fun, I loved it.
Back in 1970, I was skiing on mountains with my, you know, out west and up here in New England with my little handy talkie in my pocket, and I could talk to people for 100 to 200 miles around.
By way of repeaters, I could make phone calls.
This is something everybody needs to have.
Everybody's going to want this.
And the people, the hands in Chicago developed the cellular system where they had receivers all around the town to receive these mobile and handy talkies and then relay them through one master transmitter up on top of the Sears building.
So that was the prototype for cellular radio and of course many of those hands worked at Motorola and that didn't hurt.
At any rate, when the first microcomputer came on the market, It was a kit put out by a little outfit down in Albuquerque,
New Mexico, named MITS.
And they were advertising in my magazine. So I said, hey, I bet I can do this again.
And that's when I started Byte Magazine for microcomputers.
Right.
And sure enough, I was right.
That's turned out to be one of the largest magazines in the country.
Well, then I remember a lot of articles began to sneak into 73 about computers.
Oh, hundreds of them.
That's right.
And you started to take the heat again.
You must really enjoy the hot seat.
Well, it isn't so much that as I know I'm right.
And this is fun, and you're going to love it.
You're going to have a lot of fun.
And not only that, if you really get into it, You have a career path that is fabulous for you.
That's right.
And I've got it.
I don't think I go to a ham fest anywhere where a lot of people don't come up to me and say, hey, I took your advice, and boy, am I making money.
Well, that's the truth.
It is an opening to, as I said, a good old boy system, and it is still that.
But that's not the reason to get into it.
It's just sort of a side benefit.
A big one, albeit, but a side benefit.
Ham Radio is just plain old fun.
And there's teletype.
There's television.
I'm an advocate of fast scan television.
I love it.
There's repeaters.
Have you tried slow scan?
Oh, years ago.
The old robot 400, sure.
Oh, sure.
Years ago.
No, I had a lot of fun with that.
A little story.
When I got word that King Hussein had gotten a ham radio set for Christmas back in 1970, I sent him a telegram saying, ìHey, you need somebody to
show you how to use that, donít you?î So I got a telegram back saying, ìYeah, sure, come
on over.î So I went over to Jordan and sat down with King Hussein for two weeks in the palace
and operated JY1 and showed him how to do it.
In the meantime, I also worked thousands and thousands of stations so that he would have
less of a load of people trying to knock him off the air, looking for a contact with Jordan
because Jordan hadnít been on the air in years.
And all of the people that are trying to contact every country in the world didn't care whether it was King Hussein or Wayne Green, they just wanted to work Jordan.
So I took a lot of the load off by doing that.
And we would sit up all night long at the Ham Radio, and he just loved it and had a wonderful time with it.
and uh... i got to talking with him and i said to you know i've been talking with some of your people here
and you need to get your youngsters interested mammoth radio it would
the a wonderful thing for your country because
right now when they want a string any telephone wires or do any uh...
electronic work they have to bring in engineers
from germany or switzerland or sweden and that these people are costing you five hundred to a
thousand dollars a day to have in here to do simple things like that
and if you can get your kids interested uh... you'll have a whole bunch of
uh... engineers technicians and scientists An asset to your whole nation, sure.
Exactly.
So he said, well, yeah, that's a pretty good idea.
and he rounded up the government and they had me address the whole government of Jordan
Wow sitting around a big table
Wayne I'm going to be a little bit of a
I'm going to be a little bit of a I'm going to be a little bit of a
leading the way in ham radio and still leading the way.
Major troublemaker.
Yeah, major troublemaker, that's you.
Alright, so there you were with King Hussein, telling him he ought to train his young people to be technical.
Well, he got the government around the table, and I explained the benefits to the country of doing this.
And how it would provide them with high-tech career youngsters, which would save them an awful lot of money because we're entering into an age of communications and electronics.
So they bought it, and the result was that they asked me to write rules and regulations for them so that they could have an amateur radio service, and I did that.
And I got out of there just before the big revolution.
Uh, when they, uh, when the Palestinians tried to kill the, uh, King Hussein.
Yes.
And tried to take over the country.
So, uh, in the midst of all that, he was busy setting up amateur radio stations in all of the schools in Jordan.
So, um, in 1973, three years later, I was operating FloScan television and talking to a chap in, uh, Athens on FloScan.
And we were swapping pictures of each other and our family and our hand stations and so forth.
Audience needs to understand.
Slow scan means you can send Ashley by radio a still photograph, these days in color, from right here in my house.
I could transmit one to a guy in Japan and he'd see a picture of me in good detailed color printout on his screen.
That's called slow scan.
Right, because it takes several seconds to send the picture over the narrow band that
we have available for amateur radio.
So all of a sudden a voice broke in, W2MSD, this is Juliet Yankee 1, and it was King Hussein.
He said he was going to be in Washington in a few days and would like to meet me.
So I went down to Washington and met him at Blair House and he handed me an envelope with
two first class round trip tickets for me and my wife to go to Jordan.
He said, I want you to come over and see what you've done.
So we went over and I met over 400 licensed amateurs, all of them in their teens.
He had a driver, the fellow who had been teaching all of these people, drive me from one end of the country to the other and I went to every major city in Jordan and met the amateur radio clubs and they were just at that time about to start putting in their first electronic manufacturing plant.
I visited there again about ten years later, and Prince Rod, a JY2RZ, who is the head of the Royal Jordanian Amateur Radio Society, held a special meeting and had several hundred amateurs there and introduced me as the person having more of an effect on the country of Jordan than anyone other than the king himself.
So, it transformed Jordan from an agricultural country, with shepherds and so forth, into a high-tech country.
Actually, it's done that for America and every other country around the world.
Well, we could do a lot more.
I've been plugging to have the fundamentals of electronics and electricity taught in all of our public schools.
And I'd like to see an eight-year course from grades five through twelve teaching this.
Why are we not doing it, Wayne?
Well, you're well aware of the sad state of our educational system.
I am.
Pardon me, that's the wrong word, of our school system.
Because we have the lowest, the dumbest, most ignorant graduates of our schools of any country in the organized world.
But we make up for it by having it be by far the most expensive school system.
There are a lot of people who think the entire educational system, school system, whatever, across the country ought to be torn down and redone.
Well, it certainly needs that.
But then we have a lot of things.
Our health system is just as bad.
That's the wrong word for it, our sickness care system.
It's also the most expensive in the world and one of the least effective.
I want to lead you into one other area.
I know that you've done a lot of research into cold fusion and published a lot on cold fusion.
Let me tell you what I remember about cold fusion.
You update me from there.
There were a couple of guys from Utah.
uh... from some uh... of university in utah said we've got it
we've got cold fusion and then there was a long pause
and the world scientific community basically said no you don't
we can't duplicate this cold fusion is not a reality it's a bunch of baloney
dead silence since uh... here we are six years later
and both to chaps professors ponds and flashman who were at the university of
utah uh... are now working for a toyota
And Toyota came to them and said, we will give you any amount of money you want for a laboratory anywhere in the world.
Where do you want it?
And they are over in the French Riviera.
Uh, with a dream laboratory.
25 million dollar laboratory.
Wow.
And, uh, as of a year ago, Professor Fleischman, and I know both of them quite well, uh, Professor Fleischman was on Canadian television, uh, on a program called Closer to the Sun.
And, which was about cold fusion.
And he was showing a bottle a little bit larger than a thermos bottle.
And they said, well, now, Professor Fleischman, how much power can you get out of that little thing?
He said, well, about 10,000 watts.
And, well, how often do you have to replenish the fuel?
He said, about every 10 to the 5th years.
Every 100,000 years.
That was a year ago.
Since then, they've clammed up and are not telling us where they are.
But I will be very surprised.
If either the 1999 or the year 2000 Toyota is not powered by a unit about the size of a bread box, which will be a forever power supply and will not require any fuel, whatever.
What's the matter with us, Wayne, that we would turn away, in scientific disdain, two men who would come up with something like that?
What's the matter with us?
Let me go on a little bit further.
I, of course, started a magazine on Cold Fusion last year, so I'm right in the middle of it.
Yes.
One of the problems is that there is no accepted reason for this to happen.
They don't have a good theory to explain it.
Therefore, it's impossible and everybody's made a mistake.
This year, so far, there have been Cold Fusion conferences at MIT in Boston, at Bombay in Monaco.
In Sochi, in Russia, in Tokyo, and there was a fusion conference at the University of Illinois last month.
Now, a chap down in Sarasota, Florida, Dr. Jim Patterson, came up with a cold fusion cell, and he got a patent on it, much to the chagrin of the patent office.
Uh, who had a rule saying we're not going to give any patents on coal fusion because it doesn't exist.
But he got one anyway.
And he demonstrated his cell at Monaco six months ago.
And at that time, he was turning out six times more heat out than the energy required to run the cell.
At the University of Illinois last month, he was turning out 100 times more energy than it took to run the cell.
Wow.
Things are progressing very rapidly, particularly in Russia and Japan.
Japan is the big one.
They're spending about $200 million a year on research.
In the United States, the leading researcher was a professor from a small college in Vernon, Texas, doing it at home in his garage.
And it spent about $5,000 total on it.
Alright, well then I repeat my question.
What is wrong with us?
We are supposed to be the individuals.
We're supposed to be the entrepreneurs.
We're supposed to be the rebels.
But what happened to us?
What happened to us in every field that you can think of.
In electronics, we invented the tape recorder.
Japan developed it.
We've invented one thing after another, discovered it, and then Japan has come along and taken it away and run with it.
And the result is that they have completely taken our consumer electronic industry away.
We do not manufacture televisions here.
We do not manufacture tape recorders, video recorders, or anything like that.
So what's wrong with us?
That's another half hour.
I have proposed solutions.
Now, I mentioned that I was a member of the Economic Development Commission in New Hampshire at the request of the governor.
I told him at the time, I said, if you appoint me to this commission, I'm going to raise help.
He said, well, that's why I'm appointing you.
So the result of it was that I looked into each of these situations, the health care, the education, and so forth and so on, and wrote a series of papers saying, well, now here is what I've found.
Uh, and I had, we held hearings by the dozens and dozens.
Here's what I found.
And here are some proposed solutions to these.
And of course, uh, nobody, I couldn't get people to even read the papers.
Uh, the legislature, I'd sent them out to the legislature and the governor and I'd say, well, now, did you read this?
Well, I haven't had time to read that yet.
And, uh, so I finally got fed up and put all of my reports together and published them as a book.
And I've been distributing that to anybody that wants to find out that there are some simple, inexpensive solutions to virtually all of our major problems in this country.
And I call the book, We the People Declare War on Our Lousy Government.
So there is a way to make Congress honest and stop being a bunch of crooks.
There is a way to have the bureaus tear themselves down.
And for any bureau in the country, any federal or state bureau, To cut itself in half within three years and do it cooperatively and enthusiastically.
But you can't blame it all on the government, Wayne.
No, I do.
But you can't.
In other words, in America, we do have Chrysler, we've got GM, we've got a lot of other very large companies that, even though they pay their dues to the government, they have private money that could be invested and they've got entrepreneurs and they've got People who ought to be financing this kind of work and are not.
So why not?
Well, of course, that comes down to the quarterly dividends.
Yes, we have a lot of problems with large corporations.
When I got into the music business, when the compact disc was invented, I said, hey, this is so great that I believe that this is going to take over.
And everybody said, oh, no, come on.
Everybody's got LP players.
It'll never go anywhere.
So I started a magazine on compact disc called CD Review.
And it soon became the largest music magazine in the country.
And what do you know, the compact disc business was the fastest growing consumer electronics industry in history.
So the CDs have taken over.
But again, of course, they all come from Japan.
How does it feel to be always a step ahead and living a life... I mean, certainly time has proven and given you some rewards in retrospect, but you go through constant hell.
Well, it is a fight.
Now, in the music business, we have six major labels that at the time I started had 96% of all sales.
And there were about several thousand small independent labels that had no way of getting good performers, had no way of getting airplay, had no way of getting distribution in the stores, and so forth, because it was all controlled by this cartel, five of the six being foreign companies.
So I said, hey, this stinks.
So I started pushing independent music, and I did I did a magazine that went out to the retailers, I did a magazine that went out to the independent record companies, and I started putting out samplers of the music that was available on the independent record, because it was the best music in the world.
It was fabulous music, but nobody was hearing it.
So I put out over 150 of these samplers and got them out by the millions to the readers of my magazine.
And the sales of independent music went from 4% up to 12% within three years.
So we generated a few billion dollars of sales for the independent record company.
And I built my own studio here because very few of the recording studios were geared for
digital recording and it required a different kind of studio.
Absolutely.
So I built my own and pretty soon was making recordings and doing recordings for independent record companies and we manufactured them for over a thousand different companies.
Wow.
And I just I can't help doing these things because somebody needs to do it.
Well, somebody does need to do it, and there are not enough Wayne Greens around, and that's what's wrong.
The question is why, and I guess the answer is... Ben Jeans.
Ben Jeans.
And a school system, educational system, that has literally reached out and grabbed and embraced mediocrity, and now we're moving beyond that to even, even if you're not in the mediocre class, why what you're doing is okay outcome-based.
Well, there's a nice book out by John Taylor Gatto, the prize-winning teacher in New York, New York State, New York City, and so forth, called Dumbing Us Down.
That's right.
And a wonderful book.
As a matter of fact, I just put together a list of 49 books that I recommend people read, and I'm going to advertise that.
My next issue is 73.
I also have another booklet here of the editorials that I haven't had space to run yet in the magazine, so I've got a 32-page booklet.
A very tiny type.
Unpublished editorials by Wayne Green.
That's almost like Beatles music.
Never heard.
Well, I run about four pages of very small type each month of my editorials.
And I cover all kinds of things.
I notice one here in this booklet on poisoning yourself.
And of course, I point out that we are poisoning ourselves regularly.
We do it not only with nicotine and with drugs, but we do it with aspartame, or otherwise known as NutraSweet.
We do it with amalgam fillings in our teeth, which put mercury into our systems, which is a deadly poison.
And we've had so many cases of multiple fluorosis and Alzheimer's that have been reversed by taking amalgam fillings out of teeth.
Uh, we do it with, uh... You know, let me tell you something.
Yeah.
I recently had a lot of dental work done.
I asked my dentist about that.
Mm-hmm.
And she, a she.
Right.
Real looker, too.
She said baloney.
That's right.
You know why?
Why?
Supposing that this became generally known that this was causing all of this trouble.
Well, then the lawsuits would be in the trillions.
Make the silicone breast thing look like nothing.
Exactly.
You see, this started over a hundred years ago, and they have no way to really stop it.
Now, the dentists are having over twice as many tumors as other occupations, because they're handling this mercurial at times.
Yeah, well, so are ham radio operators, according to stats.
Yeah, because EMFs also are harmful.
And I don't know if you've read much about vaccinations, but there is no shred of proof that vaccinations work, and we have endless studies showing how much harm they do.
I've heard that from a lot of people.
Right.
Well, there's several... There's a couple of really good books out on that.
And of course, as I say, I recommend... Oh, one of the best books that I've read recently is called Maximize Immunity by Dr. Bruno Combi, a French doctor.
And he has changed my way of eating completely.
But there are a whole bunch of these books, and I've got a list of 49 books that I recommend, and some of them are exciting.
For instance, I have one book that explains how you can communicate with animals, and I don't mean just simple communication, I mean in depth.
Really?
Oh, that really is... I'm going to be asking you about that.
We're coming up here on the bottom of the hour here, but I... Well, that's the kind of things I talk about in my editorial.
All right, well then, let's talk about them.
We'll be right back.
Wayne Green is my guest, editor of The Ham Magazine, 73, and we are going to get phone lines open.
Everybody be patient.
I have got a fax that is going to lead Wayne into a very, very controversial area.
Not that he's going to mind.
Because he's Wayne Greene.
And I'm going to issue a warning here in a moment to all of you, but we are not going to avoid it.
We are going to talk about it in just a moment.
stay right there the
the the the
you Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
That's 702-727-1295.
My guest is Wayne Green, 73 Magazine, Ham Radio, and much more.
And we're beginning to get into the much more category.
seven one two two two several two
seven two seven one two two two
here again art that once again here i am my guest is wane green
seventy three magazine and radio and much more
beginning to get into the much more category i'm gonna get a lot of open in
this half hour so prepare by itself
all right what we're about to talk about i want you to know i want to warn you are right off the bat we are
not endorsing i don't endorse
uh...
is not endorsed by any legitimate medical group
that i know of may be true
I'm not recommending you try it.
In fact, I'm recommending you do nothing until you consult your doctor.
Having said that, I'm going to read you this fax.
Hey Art, have you ever heard of the low-level electrical unit that you can use to kill off viruses, bacterias, and other bugs in our bodies?
Supposedly, it'll kill off flu bugs, cancer, and all that enters our bodies by virtually electrocuting them.
I'll be giving it a try next week, and I'll let you know how it works.
There's a book on this, How to Build the Machine.
I have Candida.
And they say it'll kill it off, too.
I'll gladly send you the name of the book next week, if you're interested.
It's from Annie in L.A.
The reason I read this fax is now already apparent to Wayne Green.
Wayne believes that he has a fast cure for AIDS, and no doubt other diseases, and I knew that fax would set you off, Wayne, and that's a good way to get into this.
I'm not immune to new ideas.
You've been a leader in many areas, and this is yet another one.
You believe, don't you, Wayne, that it is possible to kill viruses, bacteria, in blood, with electrical... Well, let's not make it a matter of religious belief, okay?
The Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York, which transcends religious beliefs, I believe, reported in a paper That they had stopped the growth of HIV by passing a 50 microampere current, now this is a very small current, through the blood, and that that prevented the virus from replicating and caused it to die.
So, this is fact.
Now, the next step is, well, do we take the blood out and pass the current through it, or can we do it while it's in the body?
Well, it's very simple to do it while it's in the body.
The blood is the path of leaf resistance through the body.
So, what a scientist in California said, well, let's put a little contact on the ankle of each leg because all of the blood in the body flows through these very large leg arteries.
Right.
And put enough foliage on there so that the 50 microamperes of current goes through the blood.
And let's see what happens.
And he developed a little device to do this.
In other words, what we're talking about... Let me stop and ask you, are you saying the blood is the best conductor?
Oh, yes.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, it's the lowest resistance, so that's where the current goes.
Okay.
So, he found it took about 30 volts, 35 volts, which is just a few of these little... four of these 9-volt transistor radio batteries.
Right.
And put a couple of contacts on the legs, and then he put a switch in there to switch the polarity back and forth so that it wouldn't polarize.
And tried this on some people, and I wrote about this about a year ago and have distributed pamphlets on how to build a very simple contraption.
And I have had many, many reports of success of saving people's lives that had AIDS.
It also seems to work on Epstein-Barr and herpes, and we don't know how much else.
But, as I say, it's very simple to do, and this fellow that came up with the idea has documented several hundred cures of people in the last stages of AIDS.
I have not, and he has not, heard of one case yet that has failed where people have used this.
I'm kind of encouraged about that, and think that this is certainly something that should be tested by medical science.
And I realize that this is going to be catastrophic for the medical industry, because they're looking for something that they can sell to cure this, looking for a pharmaceutical that they can sell and make millions and billions of dollars.
And here is something that cost maybe 25 cents per person to cure it, and that is just something that is not of great interest to the medical industry.
A ham friend of mine who is the head of a research hospital in Canada is quite interested in developing and experimenting with this, and I went up there and visited him and saw his hospital.
And it's a fabulous place.
It looks like a Hyatt Regency.
And they, I believe, will be going ahead and doing some research on this.
But they're not as controlled by the AMA and the pharmaceutical industry and the FDA as the American system is.
So then what you're telling us is this will be given a good test?
AMA or not, it is going to get a test?
I believe so.
Every time I mention this to any of the People involved with AIDS in this country, they get absolutely furious.
They say it's impossible, it can't be, AIDS is incurable!
Well, you know, we are biological, electrical, biological beings, and I don't think it's impossible.
Let's give it a real try, but as I say, there are clinics now In Mexico and in Jamaica and several other countries that are using this with great success, and they're having enormous success with a number of other illnesses also, and even with cancer.
So, good heavens, let's give it an honest try!
Oh, one of the things that I was starting to talk about was this communication with animals, and this book, Kinship of All Life, is a marvelous little book.
And this fellow learned how to communicate by having to take care of a movie dog who was very intelligent.
And the dog taught him how to communicate.
And pretty soon, this book tells you exactly how to do it.
And I have found that I can communicate not only with animals, but even with flies.
And I know that's completely, totally ridiculous, but it works.
Well, I've always thought you talked to flies.
Let's hear it.
How do you do it?
Well, you have to read the book.
That's the way it goes.
No, I can't.
I can't go into the details on these things.
How about a general... But I do recommend, if I say, a number of books that people really ought to read to find out what's going on.
I want to open the lines and let people talk to you, Wayne, but first I have one more thing.
If you ever want to talk about Amelia Earhart, I know more about that than anybody else in the world.
And I have written about that.
In my editorials in 1973 is exactly what happened to her and why.
All right, so tell us what happened to her, if you can do it quickly.
I've got a bunch of stuff I want to cover.
Okay.
Amelia Earhart, of course we want to know.
And then throw in Judge Crater, if you've got anything on him.
No, no.
But Amelia... See, my father was in aviation right from the beginning, and he started the first transatlantic airline.
And one of the people in aviation that we knew quite well was a chap who was the chief engineer on Amelia's airplane for her trip around the world.
And he came to visit us well before the trip and explained what he was doing in modifying her plane for this trip.
And he said that he was putting on an extra special powerful engine and extra wing tanks because she was actually, the whole trip around the world was a spy mission for the Navy to get pictures of Truck Island and the Japanese installations there because the Navy wanted to know what was going on.
Yeah, I've heard this.
And so he rigged out the plane with these extra wing tanks, and the cameras, and the more powerful engine.
And the idea was that she would fly from Ley, New Guinea, up to Howland Island in the Pacific.
And with the normal engines, it would take her so many hours to get there.
Well, with these more powerful engines, she could go north, take pictures of truck, and get to Howland Island on the same schedule, and have a cover story.
So the only trouble was that she couldn't find Howland Island when she got there, which was a very small, little flat island.
And the result was that she had to head somewhere else, and she had a good deal of gas because of the extra wing tanks.
So let's cut to 1944, when Wayne Green is on a submarine, and they have a submarine rest camp.
And by the way, that all happened because of amateur radio.
Uh, a submarine rest camp on Majuro Island in the Marshall Islands.
And while I was there, I talked to some of the natives and they said, Oh yes, uh, we had a plane crash here a few years ago with a woman and a man in it.
And, um, the Japanese came along a few days later and picked up the plane and, uh, took the two of them away to Saipan.
So, uh, when I got to Saipan, I went ashore and talked with some of the natives there and they said, Oh yeah, they were here.
But you know, it's funny, when the Americans came, they burnt the plane, and just before they got here, the woman was killed by the Japanese, and the fellow that was with her, he died earlier of his injuries.
So, a fellow did a lot of research on this for years, and wrote a book explaining all of this.
And the Navy fought him every inch of the way, The Japanese bought him every inch of the way, but he still got the story.
And he came out and printed that several years ago.
But I was there and serendipitously knew just what was happening.
She was executed as a spy by the Japanese?
That's right.
And probably rightfully so.
Alright.
But they didn't want to admit it because she was the most famous woman in the world.
Right.
I understand.
Alright.
I have one quick technical question.
And I don't want the audience to go away.
It'll be very quick.
Maybe you can answer this for me, Wayne.
It's one I've... Somebody sent a fact, and I've never been able to answer this myself.
I run, you know, I've got an SP-220, and I run full kilowatt here.
And I'm on 75 meters a lot.
Wayne, there have been times when I have been in, you know, talking to somebody, and I've released the microphone, and I actually hear Either the last half or even an entire word of my own, plus the mic click, come back at me.
Yep, I can explain that.
Can you?
How in the hell can that be?
Where is that?
And not at a weak, not a very weak return either, but a strong return.
How can that be?
Let me tell you.
I was on a trip around the world a few years ago, and I stopped off to visit a fellow in Australia who was experimenting with moon bounce on 2 meters.
And he had a humongous antenna system there.
Right.
Well, while I was there, we got on 20 meters and talked with my home station in New Hampshire.
Right.
And they said, hey, while you're there, let's try 75 meters and see how it goes.
So I said, oh, that's great.
So we went down to 75, and my signal there was S9.
Strong signal on 75 meters.
So what you're hearing is your signal going all around the world and coming back to you.
On 75?
On 75.
And the people should know 75 meters is sort of a regional band, thought to be a regional band at best.
Right.
I mean, it certainly should not go around the world.
Well, you said it, and I heard my own signals.
Wow.
All right.
That's what you're hearing.
All right.
Look, I would like to take, if we could, some calls.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
Where are you calling from, please?
Vancouver, British Columbia.
All right.
Welcome.
I was going to ask Wayne a couple of questions or an opinion.
What did he think of groups of people who, like, kind of operate repeaters but only allow certain people to talk on them, like they monopolize the frequency?
Well, that's a good question.
Yeah, I think that sucks, let's put it that way.
Is that easy in one word?
Is that direct enough for you?
Pretty well direct, pretty well.
We've had quite a significant problem with that up here in Vancouver.
They have a problem with that all over.
And it's unfortunate because people do want to keep everybody else out.
And that isn't what amateur radio is about.
Amateur radio is supposed to be open to everybody.
All right, it's a good question.
It leads to another one just before the top of the hour.
Where's Ham Radio going?
Why don't we have geostationary satellites in orbit, Wayne?
Why are we way behind?
Why has Ham Radio lost people from its ranks?
What is the future?
Oh, dear.
We are gaining ranks, but only in the no-code tech.
And we have found, looking at the figures, that they are not upgrading.
Absolutely not upgrading.
And so what they're doing is really getting on the repeaters and talking with each other, but they're not making any effort to learn anymore or to take advantage of the tremendous amount of fun we have doing all of the things that we can do in amateur radio.
In other words, I don't know any good Answer to that.
In other words, super CB.
Right.
Super CB.
The fear of the people who said, that's what we're going to get with no code.
And so you sort of affirmed that that's what we're getting.
That's what we're getting.
So at any rate, that is unfortunate, but that reflects generally what's happened with society in the United States.
That's true.
Again, as you read more, you'll find that vaccinations apparently have a lot to do with this, as does our school system, which makes it so that people are not inquisitive, not creative, and not adventurous.
Our school system is designed to discourage that.
Well, you said, Wayne, and this gets a little deep, there's something I call a quickening.
Events seem to be accelerating, and political, social, economic, every arena you look at, events are accelerating at a very fast pace, and we're not going in a very good direction.
You were in aviation.
My analogy is, in the old days, I love this one, I've been using it for about a week now, Remember in the High and the Mighty, they'd get halfway across the Pacific and a little red light would come on and say, point of no return.
In other words, you'd use up all the fuel.
You could only go forward.
You couldn't go back to your takeoff point.
And I think that, in a lot of ways, humanity's little red light came on here not so long ago.
Well, we have hope in that this is centered primarily in the United States, which is the worst.
Other countries that have followed our lead are suffering the same problems.
Well, I didn't say it was hopeless.
I just said we're going to go on to whatever is next.
There's going to be a change.
Well, obviously.
Yeah, obviously.
That's right.
Absolutely right.
Obviously.
Unfortunately, this is self-sustaining.
The school system makes it so that we do not have The adventures, the guts to go out and make the changes that need to be changed.
All right.
Hold it right there.
We're at the top of the hour.
We'll be right back.
Relax.
I'm going to show you how to do it.
Call Art Bell toll free.
West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
1-800-825-5033.
This is the CBC Radio Network.
It is that.
I'm Art Bell.
to zero three three
one eight hundred eight two five five zero three three
this is the cbc radio network is that i'm art bell my guest is wayne green
editor in chief
seventy three magazine and a lot more magazine periodicals general entrepreneur
an out front guy years ahead of his time.
The kind of guy I like to have as a guest.
yeah he's a rebel i want to devote this hour to moving through as many
questions as we can And I've got some faxes here for you.
Are you there?
Uh-oh.
Uh-oh.
Wayne's not there.
Ah, well, the phone company.
I didn't do it.
The phone company did it to me.
Well, let's see.
How can we cure this?
Where there's a will, there's a way.
Wayne Green, are you there?
Hello.
Well, no, wait a minute.
Hold on.
Let me put you over here.
Wayne, are you there?
Hi, Art.
Oh, good.
I'm sorry.
The good old-fashioned phone company.
Thank you very much.
Indeed.
They did us in.
Well, that's not the first time it's ever happened to me.
Suddenly, it's a weird thing.
Wayne, have you ever noticed that lately something's been going on with the phone company?
And I've been getting an awful lot of... I'm sorry.
All circuits are busy.
Uh, type of thing.
Very hard to dial out.
Maybe it's just a local phenomenon.
I don't know, but it's been deteriorating.
What I was saying is I want to move through in this hour a bunch of quick questions.
Somebody sent me an urgent fax to you.
Did you mention the book, Kinship with All Life?
When you were talking about communication with animals, this is something this poor person has been looking for all their life.
Is that the title of your book?
I'd like to say something to you.
First off, this is John from Wood River, Illinois.
John.
I'm trying to get my guest back.
Okay, I'm sorry.
I gotta go, John.
Thank you very much.
Have a good morning.
I'm trying to get my guest back online is what I'm trying to do.
Wayne, are you there?
I am here.
Oh, man.
You know, so many people are trying to call in, Wayne, that when I lost you, when I just dumped, Um, I thought I had you back, but I didn't, and I couldn't even clear a line.
I couldn't even get a line to call out on, so... Something's going on with the phone company lately.
Um, I want to cover as much as I can very quickly.
Um, did you mention... This is a fax from somebody, and they say it's urgent.
Did you mention a book called Kinship with All Life?
Yes.
Is that your book?
No, no.
Okay, this person has been looking for this book, um, for about 20 years.
And they say, fulfill a lifelong dream and tell me how in the hell I can get hold of this book.
Well, I found... I had a copy.
Somebody stole it.
And I found another one just recently in an occult bookstore in Boulder, Colorado.
Right on the main walking street.
So, in other words, it's not easy.
No.
It's by Boone.
B-O-O-N-E is the fellow's name that wrote it.
So, um, I can give you, I can even give an ISBN number if you, uh, if you want it.
Sure.
Let me dig through my little catalog of books here that I think are, people are crazy if they don't read.
Okay.
And let's see.
That's a good title.
Books You're Crazy If You Don't Read.
Be a good title for a list.
Well, it takes me a little time because I've got 49 books here and I just, I just ran into a review of the 50th.
Okay.
Kinship with All Life is the name of the book.
And it has to do with communication, talking with animals.
With any kind of other life, actually.
It all started with a book.
Oh, here it is, here.
ISBN number.
Got your pencil out?
Yep.
0-06-060912-5.
0-06-060912-5.
Got it.
And that's by J. Allen Boone, published by Harper.
In 19...
A $10 book and worth $100.
Do you think that it would still be available through Harper?
Oh, yes.
Paperback editions dated 1976, and as I say, they're still carrying it in some bookstores.
All right, if we can then, let's move through some calls.
So many people want to talk to you, Wayne.
I do, however, want to give you an opportunity to give out an address and phone number, or whatever it is you want to give out for a list of books that people ought to read, or whatever materials you've got you want to peddle here.
Okay, sure.
The address is Wayne Green, Peterborough, New Hampshire, like in Peter and Peter Rabbit.
Peterborough, New Hampshire, and it doesn't make any difference how you spell it, it gets here.
The zip code is the magic, 0-3-4-5-8.
0-3-4-5-8.
Alright, give the whole thing again.
Okay, it's Wayne Green, Peterborough, New Hampshire, 03458-1107.
As a matter of fact, I get letters just with my picture on it and the zip code.
Alright, is there a telephone number people can call to order things?
Yes, you can order through 800-274-7373.
Okay, and what is it they can order?
Okay, we have Wayne Green's recommended book list.
Mm-hmm.
Which has 49 books that you're crazy if you don't read, and that's $2 just to cover the handling and shipping.
Right.
And I have a 32-page book of my editorials that haven't been published yet, and they cover an incredible variety of subjects, which I think they will find most interesting.
A lot of it is ham-oriented, but a lot isn't.
I'm curious, are these books that are, excuse me, editorials that were too hot to handle?
Editorials that... I just haven't had room to print them yet.
Okay.
I'm 32 pages ahead and I only run four pages a month.
I have a book on the solutions, proposed solutions to all of our major social problems called Declare War, and that's $13 postpaid.
And I have Uncle Wayne's Submarine Adventures in World War II, the inside story of what it's like to be on a submarine on five war patrols and almost get killed a few times.
And that's $7.50 for a 60-page book and so forth.
If anybody writes, I'll send them a list of all of the stuff that's available.
All right.
And the order number, I'll give it again for you, Wayne.
It's 1-800-274-7373.
Right.
That's a pretty good number, 7373.
Isn't that an accident?
I bet you had to work to get that one.
All right.
A million people want to talk to you, Wayne.
It's a rare opportunity for them.
So east of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
Where are you calling from, please?
This is Sam calling from Austin, Texas, KFON.
Hi there.
Hello, Art.
Very intriguing and interesting conversation with Mr. Green.
He's already covered a couple of the points that I was interested in.
I was only interested in also getting access to a subscription to his magazine, 73, and also the specification for this anti-AIDS apparatus that he mentioned.
Well, I don't know if it's anti-AIDS, I don't know if you'd call it that, or anti-malady.
You actually have published the technical specifications for this, right, Wayne?
Yes, I have a little 16-page booklet that explains the history of it and how it works and gives the circuit diagram and so forth.
And I've been sending that out to anybody that sends in a self-addressed stamped envelope.
Make it a large envelope, because it's a five-and-a-half, eight-and-a-half booklet.
Fortunately, in this country, we still have freedom of speech, and I guess that allows you to do this now.
You probably... Well, don't think that the FDA hasn't been here demanding to take them all.
Really?
You bet.
Well, of course, you don't have the machines there, do you?
I haven't photocopied any more yet.
I'm sure they have.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
Hi.
I was just going to chime in here and say when other hams and we get this satellite system hooked up over here and we were playing around on it and we got some other people non-hams over here and they were just absolutely fascinated That we can send a signal up on a satellite and talk on it.
And these people were just tripping out and they thought it was so great and they got interested in it.
Heck, we've got over two dozen satellites up there just for ham radio.
We do, but Wayne, that brings up a really important question.
It seems to me, now I don't want to get too technical for people, but a typical television satellite, You know, that brings you HBO and all the rest of it.
We've got a lot of them up there now.
We have an incredible amount of spectrum available.
Unbelievable amounts of spectrum.
And Ham Radio could literally leave the shortwave bands altogether if we had one or a series of geosynchronous satellites.
And we don't.
And why don't we?
Well, because nobody has done it.
I've talked with the owners Of several of the commercial satellites, when I was a member of the FCC's Long-Range Planning Committee, and the heads of all of the major communications companies were a part of that committee.
And I talked with them about that, and they said, yes, they'd love to make some of their unused channels available for amateur radio communication.
Right.
And I wrote about this in my editorial, and I said, well, now, ARL, do something about this.
The channels are available.
It's a wonderful and incredibly good emergency system that we could set up.
You bet.
Nobody did anything.
You bet.
That's all.
And I've written about that.
And I'll bet I know why.
The path is there, ready to go.
Yeah, I'll bet I know why, too, Wayne.
I'll bet it's because of the phone company.
Because, literally, if HAMS had a geosynchronous satellite in place, it would supplant, literally, would supplant the phone company.
I don't think so.
I think that it's a matter of there being nobody with the guts to go ahead and do it.
That's all.
It takes one person to do these things.
I know, but that would mean I could sit here with a little handheld thing and talk to somebody anywhere on the continent.
Anywhere in the world.
I know, well... As a matter of fact, I've written in my editorials and explained, hey, here is a simple system where you can generate a message with your computer, have it automatically translated to any language in the world, and deliver it anywhere in the world in seconds.
Right, exactly right.
All of that is imminently possible, and we're not doing it, I can only imagine... I mean, of the powers in the world, Wayne, the phone company is one of the bigger ones.
Well, I can't do everything.
I understand.
I'm busy right now promoting cold fusion, and that's taking a lot of work.
And that's exciting work, because this is going to be one of the largest industries in the world within 20 years.
Well, either that or we'll find Wayne Green in a ditch somewhere.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
Hello.
Carson, California, Art.
Hello.
Lovely show.
Enjoying myself listening to that.
That was one of the questions I was going to ask.
Another one I was thinking about was along this line, and this line was Why somebody couldn't launch a big, giant metal ball and people in the backyard bounce laser beams off of it and talk around the world or around the country that way?
Well, I don't know if that's the most efficient.
Repeaters in geosynchronous orbit are much better, aren't they, Wayne?
Oh, sure.
Well, you could use laser, and that would give you a wider bandwidth to use.
But using radio at microwave frequencies does a pretty good job of it.
And it's a lot easier to receive and transmit both ways.
A laser calls for a very, very accurate aiming.
You bet.
All right.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
Good morning.
Yes.
Let me get the radio turned on here.
Turn it off, please.
Yes.
Good morning, Art Wayne.
I have a question.
Perhaps Wayne can follow up on his... I mean, he's quite a fellow at paraphrasing his books.
Oh sure, that's a very simple approach.
cut the federal government back fifty percent with you with uh... this thing
on the congress not decided and uh...
i understand the people of the country would just as soon see them on a
potential cut out that one of the compare phrases book all sure that that's a very simple approach
uh... any bureau can be cut in half within three years and all you have to do is say to the each bureau
uh... every year you spend all you can at the end of the fiscal year so that
you will have a bigger budget next year.
And this is the way they all work.
Now, any money that you save over your budget this year will be distributed to the people in your bureau.
And they will scrimp and save and not hire more people in order to have a big bonus at the end of the year.
Then the next year, you start them with the lower figure and say, any money that you save and don't spend over the budget, you can split among yourselves and let greed take over and do it.
And they'll all do it enthusiastically and happy.
Make sense?
Yeah, in a perverted kind of way.
Well, greed works.
In other words, speed up the process, sort of.
Well, no, this is a way to have the government budget cut enormously just within three years.
I guess it would end up that way, wouldn't it?
Sure.
Very quickly, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
Where are you calling from, please?
I'm calling from Geneva, Ohio.
All right.
This is Lucky.
Okay, you got a question?
Is it possible to convert a TV to a I've run hundreds of articles on how to do that.
Hundreds of them.
And generally CB radios are readily convertible to 10 meters, right Wayne?
That's right.
And they make great little 10 meter radios.
Oh sure, you have whole networks of thousands of hands up there doing just that.
All right, so if a CBer wants to get religion, he might even have the equipment he needs right now.
Now we'll be back with Wayne Green in just a moment of 73 Magazine.
Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
Now we'll be back with Wayne Green in just a moment of 73 Magazine.
We've only got about 20 minutes.
It's the stretch run.
But again, a lot of people want to talk to you.
You're a popular guy.
Well, I'm into an awful lot of different things.
That must be it.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
Hi.
Good morning, Wayne Green.
Good morning, Art.
This is Jake from out here in Paso Robles, California at KPRL.
Yes, sir.
Well, I've been running radio equipment for probably 30 years.
I run a Collins set of transmitter and receiver and been on it for probably as long as radio has been free, almost.
Started out with a crystal radio.
I always understood that radio, the airways were free, and I really don't know how the government got their fingers into it at all myself.
Can somebody answer that one for me?
Well, yeah, I can.
I think Wayne can too, and we did at the beginning of the program.
Wayne and I do seem to agree.
The airwaves are free, yes, but we don't want them to be anarchy or they will not be of use to anybody.
So there is the FCC and other equivalent organizations around the world that try and bring some order.
I mean, if you want to know what anarchy is, listen to the CB Band.
Would you agree with that, Wayne?
Oh, absolutely.
No, we do have to have some control over things.
It is a scarce East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
do anything they want because then a few people will hog it.
This concludes side one.
Please leave the cassette exactly where it is, flip it over, and begin again.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
Where are you calling from, please?
I'm calling from northern Alberta.
Alberta, Canada, all right.
Hi there, Alberta.
I was up in Edmonton recently.
Wonderful area up there.
Turn your radio off.
Okay.
That's very important.
We have a delay system here and it will confuse the caller and me.
Okay.
Okay, go ahead.
I was going to ask Wayne Green if he has any theory on time travel.
I heard the other facts yesterday.
I have my own theory, and I was wondering if you had one.
Why don't you send me a copy of your theory?
I would be most interested to see what ideas you have.
Yes, I have some thoughts on that, but they're nothing that can go in a 20-minute segment.
Also, as a result of the developments in cold fusion, which seems to be centering about the transmutation of elements, And it seems as though the lithium in the lithium solution that is used in this combination is changing into boron, and the palladium is changing into silver, and the hydrogen is changing into helium.
Really?
And things like that.
But one of the results of this is that we've had to re-inspect what an atom is and how it's made up.
And we've had all kinds of interesting theories on it, and I've written a good deal about this in my editorials.
But, the fact is that we have some fundamentals that nobody has been able to understand or agree on.
Like, a very simple one, what is inertia?
Why do we have inertia?
Well, I have come up with a theory which the people in this field, and they are some of the top scientists in the world, agree, hey, this is probably, this looks like why we have inertia.
And it also explains why we have gravity.
And that's another thing that even Einstein was unable to come up with a good, reasonable explanation, simple explanation, for why we have inertia and gravity.
But this cold fusion, uh, confusion, uh, has forced us to rethink fundamentals of physics.
And I've written a good deal about this lately.
All right.
Good.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
Where are you calling from, please?
This is Dave D'Exter in Honolulu, Hawaii.
Yes, sir.
Hello there.
Hi.
The skin diving out there is super.
I dived all six islands just recently.
Well, that's great to help our tourism industry.
I apologize.
I'm actually a popular communications reader.
I'm a short waver.
I have a Kenwood R5000 as well as a Sanji and portables.
Well, we're going to have to throw you off the air then, sir.
I was looking through the call sign book, the big one that gets published out of New Jersey, and I was looking for... Yes, okay.
What about it?
Well, I was looking for the address for W6 Oscar Bravo Bravo and I couldn't find it.
That's me.
Why do you think some hammers don't want to reveal their addresses for QSO reports and such?
That's Art's address.
I looked it up too and it wasn't there.
Well, it's going to be in the next one.
I just renewed my license and I was wanted by the call book for a while.
Address wanted.
They've had it for some time now.
In the next call book, I'll be in there.
OK.
You're broadcast on 80 Meter.
Come through to Honolulu.
Yeah, I get on.
A lot of times, Wayne, after I get off the show, maybe I'll do it this morning.
I get on 75 meters and have a blast.
Well, it goes all around the world, as I said.
Yeah, it does.
All right.
Yeah, sure.
I'll do it.
38, 85, 38, 85.
Lower sideband right after the program.
How's that?
Even with a simple antenna, I just had a halfway sloping dipole.
And I still got into Australia Five-Nine down there.
Beautiful, strong signal.
It surprised the heck out of me.
Can be done.
The sunspot cycle has not been friendly of late.
Oh, no.
It's improving.
The first sunspots of the new cycle have started.
And, Ben, the radio conditions are going to be improving.
By the way, one thing I want to mention.
You had a caller from Fresno, and I forgot to break in and say that they have a fabulous Ragtime Festival every November Uh, in, in Fresno.
And it'll, uh, it's something that anybody near there ought to go hear.
Uh, my star performer, Scott Kirby, who is the top, uh, ragtime pianist in the world, uh, is performing there.
All right.
Good plug.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
Hello.
Wow.
It's me again.
Well, no, you again are only allowed one time.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
Hello.
I need to find out, is it possible to get a copy of the Halloween show?
Uh, of course.
I gave out the number for any of those shows.
Yeah, 1-800-917-4278 is the number.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
Good evening.
Hello.
Mr. Green?
Yeah?
I have three questions for you.
I've got two answers.
You bet!
She wrote a book called A Cure for All Cancers.
She was forced to leave the country and is now in Mexico with a clinic and is doing a marvelous job.
She claims that all cancers are due to liver flukes and she has a very simple approach for solving that with black walnut hull picture, ground cloves, and wormwood.
Let's see, she's got a book out on A Cure for All Aids.
And her book was featured in the window of a research hospital in Canada, in the bookstore, and featured in the window.
So how about that?
All right, there you are.
You've got one more you can ask.
I have both of those books.
And another question I've got is, what do you think about communicating with God?
All right.
Have you had any communication with God on any handbands?
No, not directly.
But if you read any of the books, and there are many of them, about near-death experiences, you'll find that most of the people who have near-death experiences experience God, and they come back much more religious, but they come back not adhering to any of the commercial religions.
There you are.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
Hi.
Do the wild thing at 702-727-1295.
Well, I guess that was a comment.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
Hello.
Hiya, Wayne.
Ken here, up in Seattle.
Hi, Ken.
You probably recall I had the longest article of CQ puttered in the August 56 QST on forwards and antennas.
I've had about 30 or 40 cents, and then about 40 in other magazines done, and whatever.
Good to hear you again, and in regard to the current technique you were describing with batteries, you're probably familiar with the Reif machine also, which is AC.
Well, one of the books that I recommend is called A Cure for All Cancers, and it has to do with the life of Royal Raymond Reif, which everybody really ought to read and find out that this fellow discovered what caused cancer and had a cure for it and as a result they threw him in prison and destroyed all of his super microscopes.
Yeah, there was a guy who did research on microscopes and he found some obscure reference to the right microscope in a library and he couldn't hardly find anything on it and he went even to the Museum of Science in Washington D.C.
and they didn't even have one.
It was destroyed so well.
Another chap has also developed a super microscope called Gaston Mason's, and there's a book by Christopher.
I got it right here.
I got it right at my hand.
Right.
On Gaston Mason's, and that's another one that I highly recommend people read and find out what's going on.
All right.
Well, that's why I said earlier, and I'm going to repeat again and ask in the form of a question, Wayne.
You're tampering with a lot of serious forces of nature here, medical and very Basic forces of nature, and aren't you afraid somebody's going to come get you one of these days?
Well, that's all right.
I've lived a good life and had a lot of adventures.
I'm 73 years old, and if they want to get me, they can get me and shut me up.
You know what?
That's exactly my attitude about life, too.
West of the Rockies.
The major record companies would love to see me dead.
The power companies, the ABA and so forth.
Maybe even the phone company.
There's a lot of people.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
Hi.
Hi, this is Ray from Sutherland, Oregon on KPNW.
Yes, sir.
I wanted to get the author of that book, Kinship of All Life, and the address again for the electric treatment machine that you're talking about.
All right, let's do it again quickly.
J. Allen Boone, D-O-N-N-E, is Kinship of All Life.
And the address?
And my address here, if anybody has any questions, ...is Wayne Green, Peterborough, New Hampshire, 03458.
Okay, good.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
Hello.
Hi, Wayne.
This is Elizabeth in Vancouver, Washington.
You were talking about transmutation of particles and what is inertia and gravity.
Are you by any chance working on ether theory?
Well, of course, that is also... Yes, we're working with that.
With regard to the, I guess you'd call it zero point energy.
There's a lot of controversy about that, and we just don't know whether ether is full of energy or not.
Well, I'm really interested in that right now myself, and I'm working with someone on that, but one last point on what went wrong with America.
Are you aware that the American Association of Pediatric Physicians published an article
on the fact that breastfeeding creates rich, dense dendrites in the cerebrum and bottle
feeding on cow's milk leaves very few twigs on our neural branches?
Oh yes, there's been, as a matter of fact, I think there's an article in Newsweek this
week about that.
So yes, there's a good deal said about that.
There's a wonderful book out that I recommended on how to teach your child in the womb About food, and you can teach it up to a hundred words that it can recognize even before it's born.
So there's some marvelous books that I'm recommending.
All right.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
Hi.
Hi, Wayne.
I'd like to mention a call to you, K6NYC.
Are you familiar with that call?
Oh, sure.
Well, I'm his XYL.
Oh, okay.
And I'm currently the owner of an antenna manufacturing company here in Fresno.
Right.
Mike Stull.
Right.
Right.
Known Mike for years.
I know.
He mentioned it.
In fact, he wanted me to call.
He's kind of got a... He's sick tonight, so he couldn't get on here.
Well, feed him right.
He won't get sick.
If you read Maximize Immunity by Dr. Bruno Comby, he will never be sick again.
Well, I have all your numbers here, so I'll give you a call and get a list of your books.
Oh, sure.
He's got my fax number, too.
Yeah, he does.
He said he wanted to wish you the best and let him know he's thinking about you.
Okay, good.
Well, we could advertise a little bit, too.
Hey, listen.
Our concern right now is PRB-1 antenna heights and tower restrictions.
Oh, it's a good concern.
And we're fighting that just terribly here in this area.
Well, no, it's being fought all across America.
Wayne comments, towers, hams need antennas.
They need to go into the air.
It's a fight, isn't it?
Well, my solution is very simple.
That is, buy a 200-acre farm and the heck with them.
What about all the people, though, that can't?
Well, then they need to read my editorials on how to make money, all kinds of money, so that you can.
It's out there if you have the guts to go for it.
That's a good answer.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
Hi.
Hi.
Yes, sir, you're on the air.
Turn your radio off.
Okay.
And tell us where you are.
Okay.
Where are you?
I'm in Denver.
Denver, alright.
Do you have a question?
Yeah, I wanted to ask him if there's some kind of block you can put on for a ham radio.
My neighbor has one and I can't use my phone, the TV's or nothing.
Alright, so interference question 101.
Yeah, that's very simple.
There are filters that can go on your equipment.
Now the trouble is not his, it's because your equipment is not designed to be operated near any kind of a radio transmitter.
And get together with a ham and he will help you find the filters that you need Uh, to put on each of your, uh, things that are being interfered with.
But all that interference can be cleared completely.
All right, there you are.
So, uh, it doesn't have to be war.
West of the Rockies, you're on there with Wayne Green, and not a lot of time.
Hi.
Yeah, this is, uh, Rick from Seattle, Washington, and I've got, uh, the classic dumb question.
What is the significance of 73 in this magazine?
Okay, 73 has to do with the first landline operators out west, uh, the Morse Code operators on the landlines.
And the gun that opened the west was the Winchester 73.
So they signed their messages, I will you my 73 at the end.
And so when the first hands got started, they continued on with that and just headed 73.
Make sense?
Well, the modern meaning of 73s is goodbye and best wishes.
Right.
Well, that's what they signed at the end of the messages out west on the land line.
And that comes from the gun, huh?
That's right.
As in, goodbye, see you later?
No, well, what they said is, I will you my 73 Winchester rifle.
I've got you.
Right.
Alright, maybe time for one more.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
Where are you?
Hi, I'm in San Diego.
San Diego, yes.
Yeah, I was wondering, what are the penalties for broadcasting wildlife?
Well, that's a very complex situation.
We've got a fellow out in California that has been broadcasting without a license and been fighting the FCC in court.
They have a rule which says that it costs you $500, I believe, a day for doing that, but this fellow has been successfully fighting the FCC on that, so we'll see what happens.
Well, wouldn't it lead, if he should win ultimately, and I know he's had some victories in lower courts, I know who you're talking about, and it would lead certainly to anarchy, wouldn't it, Wayne?
It could, although in some countries they have the FM bands open for that sort of thing, and it has not been a major problem, as yet.
Well, those wouldn't be countries with 260 million people, though.
Uh, no.
Countries like Sweden with, uh, you know, 20 million.
A big difference.
Um, Wayne, it has been a pleasure.
Uh, we've got to have you back.
Uh, it was a very, um... Next time I'll give my fax number.
Well, if you... Look, I've got time.
Give your fax number real quick.
Okay, 603... Right?
6-0-3, 5-8-8, 3-2-1, 3-2-1, 3-2-1.
3-2-0-5.
Get ready.
That's my one at home, my personal number.
All right.
Here they come.
Good night, Wayne.
Okay.
Thank you, Art.
I've had a wonderful time.
Listen, I'll give you the honor.
Just say, good night, America.
Good night, America.
That's it.
From New Hampshire and from Wayne Green and from Art Bell, good night, America's fax number.
Fax them, folks.
6-0-3-5-8-8-3-2-0-5 from the high desert.
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