Dave Esther and Sharon Gill share 70 documented ghost cases from Twilight Visitors, including silent black helicopters near California cattle mutilations (Oct. 16) and entities like Paul, a 1930s pimp whose violent past haunts Astoria’s Liberty Theater—where butter containers explode and cold spots linger. Their tools detect invisible anomalies: 400–500% electromagnetic spikes, sub-audio hums, and misty apparitions tied to unresolved obligations or burial sites, like a Washington inn where an owner’s urn sits amid hauntings. Callers confirm eerie premonitions—waking at deaths, seeing protective spirits—and warn against building on sacred grounds, from Oregon burial plots to nuclear plants over Native American graves. The episode frames ghosts as culturally ignored yet increasingly relevant, urging respectful investigation before earth changes reshape their significance. [Automatically generated summary]
And happy Halloween to you and all of our new affiliates and everyone who's out there.
Remember, last week I interviewed Lassen County, California brand inspector J.D. Hemphill about the two cattle mutilations found on Susanville, California Ranch October 16th.
And Susanville is in northeastern California, about halfway between Alturas and Reno, Nevada, where we've had so many UFO reports and strange sound reports and all kinds of things for the last two or three years.
Well since my report, last Sunday, I have received communications from two different residents who have noticed unusual black helicopter activity after the mutilations and some as recently as this past Friday.
One eyewitness account is from Phil Leroy, a large equipment operator who lives in Red Bluff, California, which is about 100 miles west of Susanville.
Three nights after the two mutilated cows were found in Susanville, Mr. Leroy was out walking his dogs around midnight.
The dogs suddenly had a peculiar reaction to something that Mr. Leroy could not see.
unidentified
And all of a sudden, both of them, the hare stands up on the back of their neck and they start growling and just barking under their breath.
I call it under their breath.
You know, they're not barking out loud.
I'm trying to figure out what the heck's going on because I thought maybe there was some coyotes out here because we've got a coyote pack that runs the creek areas.
So I'm sitting there and I can see something over, I don't know, it's 500, 600 yards from where I'm at.
And it's a dark night.
In other words, there's no full moon or anything.
It was just inanimate light in the area.
And I could see something moving up and down a little bit over there.
In Art, where the two black silent helicopters hovered for 45 seconds, it was over cattle owned by the same family who found the two mutilated cows at their Susanville pasture three days before on October 16th.
This man watched these three air vehicles on October 19th.
If the helicopters are U.S. government, they might be from Fort Bragg further west on the ocean.
But why would they fly 50 feet off the ground and hover over cattle?
And which helicopter design can now be 50 feet above someone and only make a whisper?
Well, I know there have been advances in that technology.
The enduring question for me is why our government, which could get all the cattle it needs, would be interested.
I understand an extraterrestrial connection that there could be that or that they might go down to a farmer's land and snatch up cattle or mutilate them, but I just don't understand why our government would.
And what is interesting to me as a journalist and an investigator of the animal mutilation phenomena over the last 15 years is when you go back into old newspaper records all the way back into the late 60s, into the early 70s and on,
there has been an association, eyewitness association, about dark, silent, always the term is used, silent, helicopters in the air above pastures where animals have been found mutilated.
These dark, silent helicopters turn up.
That has been such a chronic association throughout these almost 40 years now that the worldwide animal mutilation phenomena has been reported that one sheriff in Colorado told me when I was working on the documentary A Strange Harvest that he and others in law enforcement had come to the conclusion that they were dealing with,
he called it creatures not from this planet, and that he speculated that maybe these dark, silent helicopters that in some cases dissolved into clouds even, were some kind of camouflage being used by a non-human intelligence.
Now this man is not trying to say that.
He told me he thought that this was, that these acted certainly like helicopters, but he could not find a design anywhere that matched these particular ones.
Yeah, well if they are morphing machines, if there's anybody out there who knows any group or agency or industry in this country or other that can make such morphing helicopters, I would sure appreciate a call to my office tomorrow at Area Code 215-491-9840.
Or you can write me at Post Office Box 538 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
That's box 538 Huntingdon H-U-N-T-I-N-G D is in Dog O N Valley T A zip code 19006.
My fax number is area code 2154919842 and I would really genuinely like to hear anonymously off the record or anyone on the record who might have any information about this strange helicopter activity in California or any place else and how it might link to the animal mutilations.
And for Dreamland listeners interested in the books and documentary productions that I have done on these various kinds of phenomena, I now have a toll-free number, 800-707-9993.
After Linda Howe's chilling Bigfoot sound, which I have had great deals of fun with, during this last week, a second Bigfoot scream was submitted to me.
And it comes, of course, across the telephone.
We're waiting for the tape.
As Linda's did, I might add.
But I thought this one also quite chilling and a good precursor to what we're doing, and I wanted to get Linda's reaction.
Well, it's interesting in the sense that it has a kind of an odd sustained quality, but it is very different than that very, very high-pitched sound of the one recorded up in Snohomish.
Well, I have been getting even more extraordinary Bigfoot encounter reports, and there's one that I will try to share on Dreamland in the next couple of weeks that I think will be quite fascinating.
That is probably the nation's foremost investigator into crop circles, animal mutilations, that sort of thing.
Now, coming up next, Dave Esther, Sharon Gill, co-writers of Twilight Visitors.
It is very nearly, as you well know, Halloween.
And it is the time for ghost stories.
Now, as many of you who have listened through the years are aware, my attitude about ghosts is a serious one.
Because I do think they exist.
And I think it is one avenue of exploration with regard to whether life after death exists.
It's why we look into it.
In a moment, Dave Ester and Sharon Gill.
unidentified
If you enjoy Dreamland's weekly news segments by Linda Moulton Howe, which features updates about mysterious phenomena, then you might want to know more about her books and documentaries.
Linda Howe is an Emmy Award-winning television producer, writer, and researcher of Earth mysteries linked to non-human intelligences.
Her books and videos provide scientific data and first-hand eyewitnesses.
Linda Moulton Howe's two books, An Alien Harvest and Glimpses of Other Realities, are acclaimed for their quality, depth, photographs, and drawings.
If you are interested in learning more about the mysterious animal mutilations, crop circles, UFO sightings, the human abduction syndrome, and government knowledge about these worldwide phenomena, you will enjoy these books and videos available directly from LMH Productions.
Now, Dave Esther and Sharon Gill, apparently one of the wire services, one of the major ones, we'll find out here in a second, picked up a story about them, calling them ghost hunters, ghost riders, ghosts, well, I guess just people with a general interest in ghosts.
And then ABC News Nightline, normally devoted to hard news, apparently invited them on the program, and they did a show there on ghosts.
Their book is called Twilight Visitors, and let us see if we can connect with them both a feat.
Okay, well, I take it it's going to probably worsen from here, waltzing Matilda, even out of a dead radio.
Oh, it gets bad, but, you know.
Now, what I've always wondered about, since I've got a couple of real-life characters who have gone through this, I want to ask, in Poldergeist, in all of these other movies, nearly the worst has got to occur before people pack up and take off.
Now, as for me, I guarantee you, ghosts in my house, first sign, maybe I put it off to a bit of bad digestion or something.
Second sign, I'm out of there.
So you guys obviously didn't take off.
Now, I know you buy a house, you've got an obligation, but still in all, to have ghosts in your house seems to me would be something that would cause you to put up a for-sale sign and go somewhere else.
unidentified
Well, not really.
If the energy that you pick up from the ghosts are positive, you don't feel threatened.
So, you've got photographs, But again, when you took them, none of this was apparent.
What caused you to take the photographs?
In other words, you must have felt something or known something was going on.
unidentified
I have to admit that this last place we went to, I definitely felt something behind me.
It's an arts and crafts store in Scapoose, Oregon.
And in going up the stairs to investigate where there had been a lot of noise and a lot of the owner had felt a lot of eerie sensations and heard creaking floorboards and various things.
Going up the stairs, I had a very strong feeling something was behind me, so I began shooting pictures.
I got to the top of the stairs, turned around, and just started shooting and picked up this, what looks like a tornado.
Do you have any sense of why something would be visual to a camera and not the human eye?
unidentified
Yes, a lot of the studies, when you go into some research on that, is apparently these entities are visible in a different portion of electromagnetic spectrum than what we can see.
And that's why some films, which are more receptive to the higher frequencies, it will develop into.
Because so many of the things that we, when we're there, I take the electromagnetic readings on a sensor to measure the GOS.
And I get your normal background rate, and it'll be a 0.1, 0.3.
If you take the same magnetometer and you put it in a home where there is no reported problem or ghost or anything else, and you run it and graph it for a few days, do you see jumps in magnetic anomaly?
So in other words, by a factor of many hundreds of percent, it takes a jump.
unidentified
It really does.
And the interesting thing is, Art, is that when you get to the center of the anomaly, as you go off to each edge, you maybe only have 12 inches, 15 inches, and it's back down to 0.1.
Is there anything, I've heard many stories, of course, of I'll tell you what, we'll hold this for a break.
But what I want to ask when I come back, you two, is about the reported chills or cold, even cold to the degree that somebody can see their breath.
That kind of cold that goes along with the presence of whatever it is we're talking about here.
Back to Dave Esther and Sharon Gill in Oregon, subjects of hauntings.
All right, you two, what about this temperature thing?
Have you measured anything or seen anything there?
unidentified
Absolutely.
You know, if I regress it, just a minute, Art.
Sure.
When we go into a place to investigate, now, we're amateurs, okay?
We learn all the time every time we do an investigation and we learn a little bit more.
We take in with us the electromagnetic field meter.
We take in a sound level meter for measuring your sub-audio ranges and then the higher end.
We also take in a thermometer that will measure something of a digital readout because you do get a temperature drop or an increase in temperature whenever an entity is present.
Of those people that will call you up and say, look, something's going on in my home, or we think there is a haunting, and you go and investigate, how many times do you find something versus, you know, it being a bust?
unidentified
I'm not certain that we've ever really found a bust.
There was the one evening that we went down to Sellers Arts and Crafts, and it was real quiet.
We didn't think, we didn't really pick up anything on the EMF, and I didn't figure I picked up anything on film.
So we thought, well, we'll try again when the activity picks up.
That was the night I got the picture of the NFE behind me.
So, you know, I walked down those same stairs with the EMF meter, found absolutely nothing.
It's kind of like they can come and go as they want.
And I think the only time we can find them is when they want us to be found.
I think one of the most important areas to look at first may be what really is a ghost.
In other words, I'm a great investigator, and I'm sure you are too, about whether or not we have a life that comes after this one.
It is probably one of mankind's biggest questions.
And if there are ghosts, and if they are the remnants of or the soul of a departed person, then that is very important evidence toward that, you know, proving that afterlife.
On the other hand, if these are fallen angels or some other form of entity that never once was human, it is something else again.
Which, in your opinion, is it?
unidentified
From the experience that we've had, Art, on the last two years, the so-called ghosts that we work with or investigated and collected stories on have been, for the most part, the departed souls of those that have lived here.
In fact, they've all been Earth.
They've all born, raised, and then died here on this planet.
And when they've died, they've had, for one reason or another, a reason to stay behind.
Instead of going on toward the light or through the tunnel or whatever maze it is that they access into, they've stayed behind.
And a lot of them that we've encountered from the stories and from our own investigations have been because of neither they're lost to confused, unresolved issues, or they're watching over someone until they feel it's time to go on.
They're not, you know, they're not the fallen angels you hear about.
They're not destructive.
I guess you work with ghosts who are a lot like people.
You have good ones and you have bad ones.
For the most part, do you believe people are good, or the most part, do you believe people are bad?
And I guess from that standpoint, it's how you kind of evaluate ghosts.
When we go in, we don't make judgments.
We're very afraid.
We go there simply to observe, to document, and to learn.
Well, Larry, you tend to come down, both of you, on the side that ghosts or poltergeists are generally friendly or good.
But you say there are indeed good and bad.
Now, so many ghosts seem to be manifestations of some tragedy or tragic death.
Wouldn't these many times be the scarier variety?
It seems to me.
unidentified
I would think so.
Now, sometimes it's difficult not to confuse maybe a ghost that's tormented with maybe residual energy left behind because of sorrow or pain that may be imprinted into the area, which you feel in the form of depressions or anxieties.
And it was just a couple of weeks ago that we were called to a historic house in Columbia City.
And the people there said that the owners of the house had loved the place so much that they feel that the lady is there because she didn't want to leave.
She wants to make sure that the house is cared for.
And the caretakers have seen this woman at her wood stove in the kitchen in her white apron as she did every day of her life cooking.
Now, if I went into my kitchen and I saw a lady there cooking and I knew my wife was in bed, it would bother me a lot.
I mean, really bother you.
We can sit here and esoterically talk about these things, but if they actually happen to you, I just don't see how people could keep it together.
unidentified
They called this the Columbia City because the caretaker had gone upstairs to the bedroom to change the quilts on the big feather bed.
And in doing so, found two imprints on the bed, as though two people had sat on the edge of the bed.
They didn't panic.
They called us to come and see what we could find.
And then said, we hope you don't think we're nuts, but, and then told us what had been happening there.
And they're very comfortable with it.
There's no fear there whatsoever.
Yeah, but we also had a story come to us from Ohio about a lady and her husband had moved in, I moved to Ohio from Seattle for a job transfer, and they built a new house.
And while he was away on business in February of this year, it was freezing outside, very cold, and she was upstairs and she heard this child crying.
And so she walked to the edge of the stairs and she seen this little 10 or 12-year-old girl.
She was dressed in a blue dress and a white apron and white socks and black patent leather shoes, but she had no coat on.
And so this lady called down and asked her if she wanted to have a coat, thinking it was maybe one of the neighbor's children or something.
Sure.
And the little girl just vanished.
And the woman who contacted us said that she, you know, thought maybe she was losing a little bit, or maybe just having a hard day.
And then a little while later, she was in the bedroom doing some work, and she heard this little girl crying again.
So she ran back out to the banister of the stairs and looked down and there was this little girl.
This time she walked down the stairs, walked up to the girl, and she put her hands out to give her a hug.
And she was crying.
And her hands went right through her and she vanished instantly.
And this continued for a while.
She thought she was going crazy.
Added to this, the next time the apparition came, there was an old man dressed in kind of like the attire of the grapes of wrath, with a hammer slung to his side, an old hat he had in his hand.
It was like a farm laborer of a Depression era.
And they just kind of stood looking at her.
And she'd have these visions of them.
I call them visions because only she could see them.
Once when she was going to a Christmas party, they were in the back seat, and her husband couldn't see just her.
She started undergoing psychiatric treatments.
So she's thinking maybe something was, she really was losing it.
Well, sure.
And she called because she'd gotten a copy of the book.
She'd read it.
And there were many stories in the book of very similar nature.
And she realized that she hadn't been going crazy, that these were ghosts.
You said generally you do not exorcise or attempt to remove these entities, correct?
That's correct.
In your description of ghosts in the first place, you describe them as confused, misdirected, Or on a mission, but not necessarily pleased about being earthbound and not having gone on to the light or whatever comes next.
Would not an exorcism be a compassionate thing to do?
In other words, when you exorcise a ghost, don't you send it off on the right path?
unidentified
Not if it doesn't want to go.
You know, the belief systems of ghosts and the belief systems of we humans can be quite a bit different.
You know, if someone lived, let's say they were a Chinese and they practiced the Buddhist or the Hindu belief system and they died, practicing some type of a Christian exorcism isn't going to make any difference to them because they don't accept that.
You know, they leave when they want to leave.
It's been our experience that a lot of times that when they're ready to go, they're ready to go, and just by talking to them, they'll leave.
Well, it would imply a consciousness because a lot of the kind of things that you've been talking about seem to be practical joke type things, and that would imply that the entity has a sense of humor.
If you go in and talk about Paul, which the manager really doesn't like to do because she knows that something will happen if you talk about Paul, ABC News Nightling was in the theater with us.
We did the filming for the show.
Before we left the theater, the lady said, I know something's going to happen.
I just don't know what.
And sure enough, the next morning they went in and the butter container had exploded to a point where the top had flown off, which they never found, but it hit the chrome around the edge of the counter and bent it halfway up.
So it was a real impact, but there was butter everywhere, and that had never happened before.
And yet when NBC came out and did a story the next morning or the next afternoon when the manager opens up for the evening, the popcorn had already been popped for him.
Yeah, see, that's an entity with a sense of humor.
unidentified
Yeah.
Now let's talk about this entity.
As far as I know, his name was Paul.
He was a pimp back in the 30s.
And he had two ladies of the evenings that worked for him, Lily and Mary.
And he threw one of them off the balcony when she wanted to get out of the business.
And the other lady got her throat slit in the main theater downstairs.
And yet these three still continue to haunt there.
Paul has appeared to not only the manager, but some of the customers at times, and appears as a six-foot man dressed in white, very slim, with a Panama hat, a white tuxedo, and a devilish smile on his face.
And as soon as you look at him, he grins, and he's gone instantly.
All right, I'll tell you a story in a moment, you two.
Stand by.
My guests, Dave Esther, Sharon Gill, the subject, ghosts.
Right now, the subject is hard water.
It comes, well, you'll see it on glasses when you try to wash them.
We're talking about ghosts.
And again, it is very important, and I take a very serious approach to this topic because I believe there is something to it, as I believe there is something to an afterlife.
And this is one method, and I particularly enjoy these two because they're doing actual measurements and finding actual differences in magnetic flux fields, and they're finding it in photography and all the rest of it.
It's a hands-on kind of thing.
Dave and Sharon, is that the way you decided to follow this as a hands-on kind of operation?
unidentified
Yes.
When we got into it, first of all, the idea of writing about ghosts and folk which takes place, I kind of got attracted into it.
I started collecting the strap.
Really curious.
Because, like you said before, if a ghost is real of life after they tried to eliminate as much as we could that could be explained by, for example, if you're on medication and you've seen something.
Here in the state of Nevada, where I live, prostitution is a legal business in many counties.
My county happens to Be one of them, my county, Nye County.
And there are two houses here, which I won't even bother to name, but they have been haunted for many years by a ghost named Harold.
And why do you suppose, either one of you who wants to answer this, that this kind of business, I hope that isn't coming toward you.
That this kind of business seems to draw that kind of entity to it.
What is it about that business?
Any ideas?
unidentified
Maybe it's not so much the business art as it is the energy that they feel there.
It's been our experience that if you have a household with a lot of turmoil and distress or anger, resentments, they're going to draw in a gulch that feeds on that.
And the repercussions that you get back are the more violent ones.
If you have a family that's, I won't say normal, but has positive energy flow coming from it, whether it controls their feelings or emotions, they tend to draw in the entities that feel on that type of positiveness.
And perhaps in those establishments you have there, there's some type of an energy feel that Harold enjoys being around.
When we come back here after the break at the bottom of the hour, I would like to ask, and in fact I will right now, both of you individually, has there been any time when you've been investigating something and it has scared the hell out of you?
Now, I asked you prior to the break, what has really truly scared you?
And you might both want to respond individually or together.
I don't know.
unidentified
We'll do it individually.
Well, I can honestly say that the most hair raising experience I had was at the Liberty Theater in Astoria.
And the manager told us that she would take us on a tour under the stage.
Now, this building opened for their first opera in 1925, so it's quite old.
And it's like stepping back in time when you go through the front doors.
The air is different.
The atmosphere is totally different, like you stepped into another dimension or something.
And going under the stage, the walls are signed by people like Al Capone.
It was quite a prominent theater in its time.
And there were a lot of famous people that attended various shows.
But going under the stage, it was not only Dark, it was eerie, the air was heavy.
It was a real strange feeling, a place that the further down you went, the more you didn't feel like you wanted to be there.
As you go further under the stage, there are tunnels that run like a maze under the town.
It's like a town built on a town because the town has actually burned to the ground a couple of times.
But it was a place that made me feel very uncomfortable, and I told Dave that I felt like we probably need to go back upstairs because it didn't make me feel good at all.
I had to take the camera down into what they call the ice room where they keep the ice machine.
And that is the domain that Paul hangs out in.
And one of the previous employees had blocked open the door with a five-gallon paint can, a bucket in actuality.
And while she was getting the ice, Paul moved that five-gallon bucket and slammed the door shut on her and locked her in.
There's no lights in that room.
It's pitch black.
And so that's the room I chose to go into because I had to change the infrared, which, as you know, has to be done in total blackness.
And so I walked in at probably about 15 feet to the table and then I had the door closed and walked the table and I unloaded the infrared that was in there and loaded some more.
And as I turned to leave, I literally felt a cold air, a breath of cold air on the back of my neck.
My hair, the back of my neck, literally stood up, just like I'd see in the movies or something.
And I was thinking, my gosh, this can't be happening.
And it was everything I could do to keep from turning around because I did not want to know what was behind me.
I couldn't see it, but I just didn't want to know.
I walked as fast as I could to the door because it just really, it chilled me to the bones.
And I've been to Vietnam.
I've been around.
That's the first time that I was literally frightened so deeply of something that I couldn't see.
When ABC was out, we had a cinematographer with us who was a correspondent during the Vietnam War.
And this man did not want to be left alone in any part of the theater.
And they walked bravely in, but when we were ready to leave, they were firm believers that something was going on in that building.
That it's very confusing, and it makes you wonder whether you're dealing with sort of a remnant of a soul or remnant of something, a person, or you're actually dealing with their soul, which is trapped here on Earth.
Or maybe a little bit of both.
The whole area is fascinating and confusing.
And let's take a few phone calls.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dave and Sharon.
Well, when I say, when I picked up the line, I said you're on the air.
That's an important cue line.
unidentified
I understand.
Okay, fine.
Anyway, ever since I was a child, I had these feelings.
I could see spirits, for example, or people on the other side.
And when I was a little girl, I remember waking up and seeing these people in my room.
And of course, I went to my father and told my father, when you're three and a half years old, what father pays attention to a child that's three and a half and is watching a Dallas football game?
So, and now this year, after I'm 40 now, so this year, I talked to my next door neighbor and I asked her, because I'd heard that she talked about these ghost stories and they were ghosts there, and I explained how these people looked like.
And she told me, you couldn't know them because you didn't move in at the time when this man died.
So evidently I saw the man, you know, that used to live there, not in the house, but the house next door as a child.
And children, overall, at a young age, are able to see into the infrared range, where we as adults have grown so far past that that we've lost the ability.
Cats are very sensitive to areas and things that we know nothing about.
Can't hear, can't feel, can't see.
I don't know what that says about cats, but I believe it to be true.
Now, I also believe to be true essentially what that lady said, and they just affirmed, that there are people that can see things that have developed, in effect, an ability that the rest of us, through the noise of everyday living, have essentially simply forgotten about.
Now, the thing is, is that my friend's aunt's house was right across the street from this place.
When I told her what I saw, she was ironing clothes at the time, and she looked at me and she gasped, and she said, you're just trying to scare me.
And I said, what do you mean?
And she said, oh, that's right.
She said, Maddie died two weeks before you guys moved into the neighborhood.
I described in complete detail the woman who had just died.
Now, they hadn't settled the estate, and I kind of wondered for a long time why that might have happened, and I think I figured it out.
Now, sometime after that, my younger brother fell in with some kids, and they got into trouble, and they broke into that house, and they stole some jewelry and stuff, and they were all caught, and it was all returned.
The only thing I can think of is that maybe in wanting to protect her house, maybe she knew somehow or other that that was going to happen, or she feared it, or maybe she felt that I would tell other people what I had seen, and it would scare children away.
It shows very much a protective, you know, when an older lady passes on, she still is very concerned about her possessions, her home, her things, until they're resolved.
I'm sure, because if you watch and read a lot, a lot of stories have been documented where someone's died and has communicated with someone, or there's been a multi-car accident, and one has come back and the other ones have not.
All right, let me ask either one of you about this.
Would you say it is a good idea, doesn't matter, or a terrible idea to build a house on top of a graveyard?
unidentified
A terrible idea.
I think you could probably expect about the worst.
I know that out here in Oregon, a lot of places are built on Indian burial ground, sacred ground, and we don't know exactly where these places were, but the people whose homes are on this hollow ground do experience some very strange phenomena.
Well, even worse than that, Noah, we had a nuclear plant built up here along the Columbia River by a major international company, and it was built on sacred Indian burial ground.
They hid the fact.
Besides the fault line, we'll talk about that.
But they excavate the bones and artifacts and kept it hid from the public.
That nuclear facility is no longer online.
It was plagued from the day one that it was dealt with problems, substandard material.
It just had nothing but problems.
It only ran for a couple years before it was finally, you know.
I mean, it was always the offline more than it was online.
And, you know, I've never really given it much thought to your question there.
Perhaps by being built on the sacred burial grounds, there's a lot of restless spirits who really resented what was being done.
But yet, ghost spirits on the afterlife, the way I see it, should be and will be in years to come, and I'm talking after the earth changes, that the subject will be handled like a daily weather report, very respectfully, because it's here and we have to deal with it.
And not really so much on the aspect that we cover, the real aspect of entities or ghosts or whatever they are, but sort of the dress up and go get candy aspect or the let's go look at the fireworks.
Well, that'd be for July.
But getting my holidays mixed up here.
But the mask and the candy business and all the rest of it instead of this aspect.
unidentified
Well, you know, there is a different aspect of it over in the Orient, you know, where they honor their ancestors.
Well, I lived on the island of Okinawa, and there is an interesting custom they have, which I got to participate in once, where at a certain time of the year, you go to a cave or a location and you reverently clean the bones of your dead ancestors.
And that makes me ask again about the link between the place of burial and the entities.
In other words, try not to build on top of a graveyard of some sort.
Is it generally true that entities stay close to what was their body?
unidentified
But that's hard to tell because when you become a spirit, you know, you're outside of the realm of space and time you have it.
You operate in a different environment.
And whether they can be next to their bones and instantly they can be, you know, a thousand miles away, we really don't know because there are so many that do come and go as transients, always in motion.
But yet around graveyards there is a lot of activities.
And whether these are just the new ones that have come and haven't quite gained the knowledge they need to continue on, or whether they, because the graveyard is close to where their home and families are, they stay behind.
I mean, my goodness, how can a ghost be like a funnel cloud?
I mean, you can understand a mislike cloud or something, or fog, because that's been portrayed quite often, but a spin, a twirling funnel shape.
Now, in the Liberty theater, we captured on film there a reverse spin vortex, where the spin was reverse of how it normally would be.
And it was like the letter U. It went down, over, and then back up again.
Where this one we captured just last week starts from the floor and goes toward the ceiling, kind of bends along the way, but there's also a shadow that's cast from it.
They have written Twilight Visitors, a compilation of 70 true ghost stories.
We'll be right back.
If you feel the desire to control your own work hours, your work environment, be your own boss, choose your own work companions, then maybe you need to start your own business.
Now, briefly, before the bottom of the hour, back to Dave and Sharon.
Okay, you two, you're back on the air again.
Okay.
I'm glad that you are doing what you're doing.
Very glad because there are not enough people documenting this kind of thing.
It's one of the reasons we put out the newsletter we do.
You know, you talk about them on the radio, and it's great.
It's the theater of the mind, and we can, you know, tell people about these things.
But once you've laid your eyes on a photograph or had an actual experience, it's a whole new realm, isn't it?
unidentified
It really is.
And we really enjoy your newsletter, you know, because when you can visually observe an image, there's no doubt About what it is that you're looking at.
And it's a particular area of interest to me because I want to know myself, as you two do, I'm sure, whether this life is it, and then it's the worms crawl in and the worms crawl out, or whether it doesn't matter and your spirit goes someplace else.
unidentified
We both firmly believe that life goes on.
It goes back to the law of physics.
You know, no energy can be destroyed.
Only transformed.
And so, and, you know, we've, in the 70 stories we've collected, the first, we're working on our second book, collecting stories.
We've probably got as many stories right now as we have in the first book.
But they're more in-depth stories.
We're getting a lot of people contributing stories to us off the internet.
Art, could you ask your guests whether they think it is possible that certain locations on Earth are innately paranormally energized apart from any human influences past or present?
I would think funeral directors would be particularly plagued or blessed, depending on how you look at it.
unidentified
Well, there's one area in one of the towns that is located next to a funeral home, a neighborhood, and we've gotten three different stories from that neighborhood over a different period of time.
From each house, you can throw a stone to the other houses.
Right.
And it's just above a funeral home.
And we often wonder whether or not the entities and apparitions that have come to those people have come from the funeral home or just that's a coincidence.
This is kind of a wild question, but I'm going to ask it anyway.
In the hauntings that occur in cases where bodies are buried somewhere versus cremation?
unidentified
I don't think so.
That's just my personal opinion.
Because whether you burn a body or whether it decays back to the earth, the energy, the essence made up of that individual, is transformed at death into whatever energy fields that exist.
So you cannot destroy the energy, matter.
You can only transform it to a different form.
So it's actually only the body that dies away.
And not the essence of the soul or the spirit doesn't die.
Well, if the spirit remains sometimes near the body, as in the case of a graveyard, would the spirit remain near the ashes in the case of an urn?
unidentified
It could very well, because perhaps it's a resting place for memories.
And perhaps that's all they are to the ghost, are memories of who they once were.
That may be.
Now, we did hear a tale about an inn in Long Beach, Washington, where there's a lot of ghostly activity, and the owner, the previous owner's urn, with his ashes, still sits on the bar.
I mean, people read your books, and then I take it, they contact you, and they want you to come and investigate.
What kind of criterion do you use in trying to decide, you know, we're going to take a trip to Pittsburgh and take a look at this house or whatever?
unidentified
A lot of times we try to line up sightings in a general area that we're going to go to.
Often times it's a story, how compelling is it?
In our book, in the last three chapters, we talk about how to do your own ghost hunting, type of film to use, type of equipment you can use, hopefully to help others who want to explore the unknown to start out with.
And even if you can't buy some type of electromagnetic meter, you can start out with a compass.
In other words, if there is a sudden magnetic flux, the compass is going to be overwhelmed from its normal north pole look-see, and it's going to point in a new direction.
unidentified
Yeah, and depending upon how much it points, is how strong the field is.
Well, that's because you guys write books about it, and so you get contacts.
But what about this fellow?
unidentified
Actually, that was how we got started on our first book, was speaking of our own experiences with other people.
And I always say just go out and start asking people, friends and neighbors and relatives that you have in the area that you're in, if they've had any type of unusual experiences or paranormal events have occurred in their home.
I didn't know that they were at the time until I found out, you know, usually half an hour to 45 minutes later, someone would call me from the hospital and say, you know, so-and-so just died, you know, half an hour ago, 45 minutes ago.
And Dave and Sharon, I thought I might let you know that I was in the basement of your 12th Avenue home in Seaside just today.
Oh.
Don't want it.
And I, did you know that there were children actually, were children haunting the basement?
Yeah, we had children down there.
Okay.
Yeah.
And I do apologize if you get a call from the new resident because we were just going to Seaside, had stayed only three blocks from your house, had drove to Cannon Beach, picked up your book, and found it interesting, went back to Seaside just to look at the house, found the new residents outside that do not know that it was haunted.
And we showed them the book, their jaw dropped.
They said, yes, that is our basement.
So they took us downstairs.
It's now a child's room.
Oh, perfect.
Yeah, and they have not had any culturegeist activity there whatsoever.
But maybe they haven't heard of it, or maybe it's calmed down, or maybe if there's a child with the children, I don't know if that would make a difference.
Or maybe the entities left when Dave and Sharon did.
unidentified
No, actually they did.
And we do have pictures in the book of the people who moved in after us.
They took pictures on Halloween night of their grandchildren dressed up, and they do have a film around them, a mist.
We did see those pictures in the book, yes.
We do.
And she has a story in there about having a low child's voice respond back to my question of whether my daughter was down in the basement.
Yes.
You know, it was just as real.
It was a real low girl's voice.
We found this all very interesting because we picked up your book, read half of it, turned to our bell tonight, and then heard you.
But we'd also like to say that we followed some of your stories, and we followed them all the way up to Astoria, where we did go to the Liberty Theater.
And I do have to agree with you, And I have one question about the theater.
I do feel things.
And when I went into the theater, I felt three separate entities.
And I was very scared.
But the theater people were very nice and let us even sit in the seat where Lily was killed.
I felt great anger in the room for us being there, and I left.
Went upstairs and did feel something that I guess was Mary.
I felt her about the point in the book that you said she'd be halfway up the ramp, but I had not read that yet in your book.
And then when I read it, I realized that that was where you felt it, too.
We went back to take a picture of the bathroom, because we did take a picture of the theater.
I was with my boyfriend.
He asked that we go back.
We went back and I didn't feel her in the bathroom this time, but I did feel her behind me, and I did sort of hear voices.
I'm wondering if there ever were voices heard from the entities that are in the Liberty Theater.
I have never seen an entity of any sort, but I would love to.
So I'm in the category of that one man who called.
And I am, I suppose, curious enough to follow up if there are any haunted houses out there or anybody who regularly gets a visit from a ghost.
I would love to be contacted.
All right.
I want to remind everybody as well, tomorrow night on my regular syndicated program, we do something utterly different.
It's called Ghost to Ghost.
It, too, is a very, very serious approach to this whole matter of entities and ghosts.
We do it every Halloween.
It is not a joke show.
It's not a fun show.
I'm not going to be putting in a bunch of little sound effects and all the rest of it.
We take a very serious, I take and expect you to take a very serious approach to these matters.
They are serious because I believe they are real.
So if you're interested, don't forget tomorrow night, Ghost to Ghost AM.
That's about as much humor as you're probably going to find in it.
It is, however, frightening.
And for some reason, we human beings really enjoy scaring the hell out of each other.
So it's a great opportunity for that.
You guys, I want to give you a chance.
The moments are closing.
Twilight Visitors is the name of your book.
Ghost Tales, 70 of them right now.
How do they get the book one more time?
unidentified
They will call 1-800-WEIRD94.
And we'd also like, if any of the listeners have stories, we'd like, you know, if they'd like to share them with us, we'd be more than happy to consider them in our next book.
Thank you both, and good night from the high desert.
No, there you are.
Dave Esther, Sharon Gill, Twilight Visitors.
Now, again, I want to say this because it is deadline time right now.
If you want our newsletter where you will continually see this kind of thing documented, I'm very intent on that so that you don't have to just believe what I'm telling you.
You can see for yourself.
Art Bell after dark, the newsletter.
It's got to be ordered before the sun comes up in the morning.
It's not after dark then, you see.
The deadline is now 1-800-917-4278.
That's 1-800-917-4278 from the high desert near Dreamland.
Good night.
This has been Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not matched.
Yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.