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Oct. 25, 1995 - Art Bell

02:53:39

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Exploding Whale - The Vince Foster Case

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	Welcome to Artville, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from October 25th, 1995.
	From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all a sparkling good morning from the high desert.
	And welcome you to another edition of Coast to Coast AM Live Talk Radio, cause this radio station cares enough to have Live Talk Radio on instead of recycled, regurgitated, relentless repeats.
	That's right, we're live, and boy do we have a plan this morning.
	Got a couple of things I'm gonna do here.
	There was, and is, every now and then, a game I play called Truth or Trash.
	In it, people will call up and tell incredible stories.
	Many times lying, frankly, their little teeth off.
	Then it's up to the panel to decide if or not the story is true.
	Well, this was about, I don't know, maybe a year ago and somebody called me and told me this story about, pretty fantastic story about a whale watching up on a beach in Oregon and Oregonians not being the brightest bunch up there turned the With the theory that whales like roads, being big, you know, big whale, big road, the government there decided that they would turn the project over to the highway department to dispose of, and it was, oh, it was a gigantic whale.
	Well, I as much as told the person that they spoke with forked tongue, because I just frankly didn't believe the story, What happened to this whale?
	See, the highway department, my wife wants to know.
	Maybe we can find out.
	But after giving the project, we speculate that they probably got together in a bunch of highway guys in a bar somewhere and said, well, what the hell are we going to do here?
	And one of them said, well, why don't we blow the thing up?
	I mean, just absolutely blow it up.
	And we're going to find out if that part of the story could be true.
	Anyway, subsequently, they did blow the whale up.
	and uh... it was uh... it was it was like the WKRP turkey story times ten uh... all i can tell you is a lot lies ahead one of the larger or largest i guess now larger pieces of whale blubber blown to smithereens came down right on top of the car of a guy named walt almanhopper and As much of this story is myth and legend as anything else for a lot of people out there right now, we are going to bring it to real true life and I've done this in two ways.
	One, I've got Waltz Amonhofer on the line.
	Waltz says there's a lot of the story that hasn't been told yet.
	That never really got out.
	So we're going to lay it out In excruciating detail for you shortly, Woodwalt.
	And then the second thing I did is, somebody once was kind enough to send me a high, but a pretty good video, from Channel 2, KATU Television in Portland.
	And I've wished and wished and wished there would be a way that I could bring you this, you know, obviously I can't give you the video, But Channel 2 can, and plans to, and I'll tell you about that.
	What they have done is given me permission to run the Channel 2 Portland report that ran oh so long ago, called A Whale of a Tale.
	And by the way, Channel 2 plans, here I give them a plug, plans A Whale of a Tale as part of a great anniversary celebration.
	To air, so you people in Portland, whatever you do, do not miss it.
	Wednesday, November 1st in their newscasts at 5 and 6.30 and 11 p.m.
	With the series airing Thursday and Friday, November 2nd and 3rd at 5, 6.30 and 11.
	And the people up at Channel 2 were great and they sent me permission To air the narrative part of the KATU story.
	So, you're going to also hear that this hour.
	Next hour, I may have some very serious blockbuster news for you.
	Well, I will either way.
	We may or may not have Chris Ruddy on with a real bombshell for you.
	A whale of a tale, Waltz Amonhofer.
	is going to tell us about it.
	Coast to coast AM, sure sounds great in the middle of the night.
	But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
	The Coast Insider is your key to a normal life.
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	Listen on your way to work and again on the way home.
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	Get a new view of the world with Coast to Coast AM.
	First of all, I want to just thank you for bringing everyone out here to Cornucopia.
	Just phenomenal knowledge.
	I don't know of anyone else that I've ever listened to at radio that just fills my brain and stimulates me.
	But, you know, I was listening to the show and I thought to myself, Do you think George, the common citizen such as you or I, really has any hope towards the future of any privacy or anything else?
	I think we do.
	I think eventually so many people will see the light, see what you see, see what I see, that eventually they're going to say enough is enough.
	And I think that we do have a future and we're going to win in the long run.
	It's going to be bumpy along the way.
	It's not going to be easy, but we will get there.
	That's my take, and you know what?
	As long as I can continue on the earwaves and tell people this, I shall.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring coast-to-coast am from october twenty-fifth nineteen ninety
	five now
	to the state of oregon where walks on the hopper and i hope i've got that name right continues
	to reside Hi, Walt.
	How you doing?
	You're still in Oregon, right?
	Yes.
	Even after all that occurred?
	That's a good place to live.
	You've been not an easy guy to find, and I've got to thank one of my listeners, maybe a friend of yours, who heard the talk about it on the show and supplied me finally with your Number.
	How long ago, Walt, did this occur?
	I mean, it's myth and legend by now.
	Twenty-five years, I think, in November.
	In November?
	Yeah.
	Well, I guess that's why Channel 2 is doing the big special on it.
	Twenty-five years ago.
	What in the world happened back then?
	I mean, we know of this, I saw it on TV, a gigantic whale washed ashore where?
	In Florence, Oregon.
	Florence.
	The coast.
	Uh-huh.
	And so, somehow, I don't know where you entered the picture.
	I mean, did you see the whale and know about the whale before you... No, what happened, Art, is at that time I worked for a national company, and we had a plant here in Springfield, Oregon, and we were planning to build kind of a satellite plant in the Florence area Utilize all the wood waste from the mills in that area down there.
	And why I went to Florence in the first place, we didn't want anybody to know we were down there.
	We were down there looking for property.
	So we didn't want it, you know, how property goes when they know you're looking for property.
	All of a sudden it becomes a lot more expensive.
	That's right.
	So we had been talking to Wilbur Turnick, who was the Port Commissioner at that time.
	I believe he's Port Commissioner again.
	He's been Mayor since.
	I believe that the Port Commissioner is a hell of a nice guy.
	So I got the local air pollution guy, Vern Atkinson, and I had a realtor by the name of Art Wick and my 12-year-old son, and we had an appointment with Wilbur at 9 o'clock in the morning.
	So we got in a car and we drove down to Florence and we went to the Port Commissioner's office I walked in and announced that we were there and they said, well, Mr. Turnick isn't here.
	I said, what do you mean he isn't here?
	We have an appointment at nine o'clock.
	Right.
	And we were, by the way, we were also kind of, we were going to promote a port revenue bond.
	That's the reason we were working through the port commissioner.
	So I said, well, where is it?
	They said, well, he's out at the north jetty.
	There's a whale washed ashore out there.
	So when we got all the information, we thought, well, hell, we're here.
	Let's go see the whale.
	Well, sure.
	Why not?
	Drove on out there, it's quite a ways out there, and it was a large paved parking lot, and you can't see the ocean because there's a huge dune between the parking and the ocean itself.
	So we pulled into the parking lot, and there just happened to be one spot left, so we pulled the car in there, and we proceeded to walk and go up over top of this dune.
	When we got to the top of the dune, you could look down at the water's edge, and sure enough, There he was.
	It was a 20 ton sperm whale.
	20 tons?
	That's what they estimated.
	I'm sure it was every bit of that.
	I saw people standing next to it and they were dwarfed.
	This was big.
	We were able to fortunately get down.
	They were kind of keeping people back.
	But Vern Atkinson, the air pollution guy, knew Wilbur quite well.
	We were able to go right down there to where the whale was.
	The smell, you couldn't believe the smell of it.
	I don't know how long this thing was dead, but it came ashore, and it was just awful.
	It was on its way.
	Yeah, it was pretty bad.
	Somebody the night before had taken a chainsaw and cut the lower jaw off to get the teeth.
	I understand the teeth are ivory.
	Oh, no kidding.
	Yeah, somebody had ripped off the whole jaw.
	So it was a mutilated 20-ton whale.
	Stood around there and chatted around there, and they had people there from the highway department, and we were all kind of talking together, and I said, well, what are you going to do?
	And this fellow that's from the highway department, he says, well, he's not going to blow it up.
	And I thought, well, you know, OK, not a problem.
	So we stood there a while longer, and all of a sudden, this Caterpillar tractor comes rumbling down across the stand with a huge bucket on the front of it.
	in this bucket with 20 cases of 60% powder.
	So I see that and I said, boy, this is going to be big trouble.
	So I said to this guy, I said, what the hell are you going to do with 20 cases of dynamite?
	He says, I'm going to blow it out to sea.
	And I thought, yeah, you're going to blow it out to sea.
	And I said, where do you ever come up with this formula?
	And he says, he talked to somebody and they said, rule of thumb, case of dynamite per
	ton of whale.
	That's what he told me.
	Per ton of whale?
	Yeah, that was his formula.
	Now, I wonder if they might have derived that from, actually, per ton of rock that you want to displace.
	I have no idea.
	I mean, because how would you calculate a whale?
	He said, I'm going to dig on the inboard side of the whale and put the cases on it, and I'm going to blow him out to sea.
	Well, the powder doesn't work that way.
	I got into quite a, well you might say almost an argument about it, you're crazy, you're going to kill somebody.
	If you want to obliterate, if you want to blow up a big rock with dynamite, you put a few sticks of dynamite on the top and put some sand on top and you'll crack it.
	You never go underneath, especially with sand because sand is so dense that all power you have is going to go straight up.
	And Vern Atkinson and Wilbur said to me, come on, John Montauk, this is really none of your business.
	Anyhow, and I said, yeah, and he says, and the guy from the highway department, he says, anyhow, he says, I want to have everybody on top of them dunes up there.
	I'm just curious, Walt, how did you know so much?
	I've had quite a bit of experience, even in the military, with explosives.
	So I said, I'm going to have everybody on top of those dunes up there.
	And I said, yeah, I'm going to be the furthest SOB on the south end.
	And I really was.
	And Vern and Turnick went with me and everybody went way down the south end of this thing.
	And they made a, you know, kind of a big spectacle.
	They put the dynamite in there and run around with the reel of wire.
	And then they waved their hard hats for the all clear and they signaled one another and what have you.
	And let me tell you, they touched that sucker off and it looked like A nuclear explosion.
	When you see the tape, you'll know what I'm saying.
	I was reminded of a fuel-air explosion, or something short of, or near a nuclear explosion.
	It was unbelievable.
	Yeah.
	It was a huge mushroom cloud.
	And this thing was red and black and white and just unbelievable.
	And the big pieces, of course, went on beyond Mushroom cloud.
	They kind of went way up higher.
	And all these people.
	You have to visualize a hundred people or more standing on top of the dune.
	And of course the wind comes in from the ocean.
	The wind was absolutely westerly.
	Yes, it does that.
	And all of a sudden everybody realized, oh God, here it comes.
	In other words, they were blown to such a high altitude that the wind began to grab them.
	This stuff started moving in and people started screaming and running and smell, you couldn't, you'll never believe the smell.
	Well, you know, I understand actually before they began running, right after the explosion, everybody for at least a few moments Rejoiced and clapped and yelled.
	Oh, it was fun, yeah.
	It looked neat.
	It was like, you know, it was kind of a picnic affair.
	Fourth of July times ten.
	Yeah, but here it comes, and I mean to tell you, and we were the furthest ones down, and it was starting to hit us already, and I was standing there, and I'm looking up, and I see one big piece, and it was just kind of floating around up there and flipping around up there, Way up there, huh?
	And that sucker, it just came to an absolute stop.
	And it straightened itself out, if you might say.
	And it came straight down.
	It was like a roadrunner car, Jim.
	It hit my car dead center.
	Your car, Jim.
	And I just had bought this, 98 old.
	It was a gold four-door Regency.
	Oh, no.
	And the people I bought it from was Dunham's Oldsmobile and Eugene here.
	And their slogan, by the way, is the whale of a deal.
	Ha!
	I hit my car with such force that it exploded.
	There wasn't a piece of glass bigger than a quarter of an inch.
	And it pushed the roof so hard down to the flat part of the seat that you sit in.
	And just kind of bent the car.
	I don't know what this piece weighed.
	Probably four or five hundred pounds.
	I saw the photo of your car, Walt, and I presume they declared it a total loss.
	Yeah.
	So, fortunately, nobody was hurt.
	I mean, the reason this story is funny is because the car next to mine had some little children in it.
	So, the story is funny because nobody really got hurt at this point.
	It could have hit that other...
	People were screaming and running, and I don't know, all their clothes were ruined.
	You know, and there's no way to get the smell out of there.
	It even, I guess, you know, the camera crew, which could have stayed in place bravely like those under fire, decided Valor was better.
	Everybody, yeah.
	And they just flat stopped taking pictures and took off.
	See, so I got down there, the people got to my car first.
	Because we were the furthest ones down there.
	That's right, you had said you'd be the farthest away.
	The guy from the, everybody come up, this Jeep arrived with all these hard hat officials.
	Oh my God, whose car is this?
	Well, it's mine, you S.O.B.
	Yeah.
	They said, well, come on to our office.
	I said, I'm not going to your office.
	I said, I'm going to call the Governor.
	I couldn't get a hold of the Governor, but I got a hold of the guy that runs the Highway Commission, and I started telling him the story, and he said, I've got to stop.
	you gotta tell me he says did anybody get hurt my said no because i have to
	stop i have a pretty good look at the funniest story i ever heard of my life
	well is there any way that you know other than what you told us about the decision making this
	Somehow, I mean, you figured this gets turned over to the highway department and, you know, the guys.
	The guys with the dynamite.
	They start chewing it over, trying to figure out how to get rid of this whale, and I just really would like to know how they came to the decision to blow it up.
	I don't have any idea how they came to that decision, but the tape that the San Francisco News Channel did They interviewed quite a few people on the tape, and they said the written report that this fellow wrote, that everything went according to plan.
	And then they said, what happens when you're in a bureaucracy when everything goes according to a plan?
	And six months later, he got promoted.
	He got promoted.
	You know, there's a sort of a thread.
	You say that was 25 years ago, huh?
	Yeah.
	It still seems to work that way today.
	It's worse than it's ever been.
	You know, right after this happened, maybe a year after, I got a call from Sports Illustrated.
	Really?
	I was living in Louisville then.
	And they want to know, you know, if I have any objections to them doing this story on this wheel.
	And I said, I have no objections at all.
	So the fella he worked on it, I still have a copy of it somewhere, and he called me, it was midnight in Louisville, and he called me from Eugene and he said he had just come back from Florence, or wherever this George lived, and he says, I just have to tell you what he said.
	And I said, what did he say?
	He says, well, a typical bureaucrat, he says, I didn't use enough powder.
	I thought more dynamite there wouldn't have been any big All right, it is the bottom of the hour wall hold on when
	we come back I've got a couple more questions for you, and I've got the
	channel to Rendition it'll give everybody the flavor flavor
	We'll be right back This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	on this, somewhere in time.
	I'm going to be doing a lot of research on this.
	the the
	I am Art Bell.
	My guest is blubber victim, Waltz Hamann Hopper.
	Twenty-five years ago it happened.
	Today, the explosion still resonates.
	In a moment, you will hear that explosion and the Channel 2 report from Portland that describes the whole thing in impossibly funny details.
	That was incredible.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from October 25th, 1995.
	This, all those many years ago, was the actual KATU, Channel 2 News report, The whale of a tale, the exploding whale story that many people have thought, in fact, I recall now, the panel thought was absolutely a whale of a tale, but a total lie.
	Well, guess what?
	It wasn't a total lie.
	And here's Channel 2's report from way back then.
	It had to be said, the Oregon State Highway Division not only had a whale of a problem on its hands, it had a stinking whale of a problem.
	What to do with one 45-foot, 8-ton whale dead on arrival on the beach near Florence.
	It had been so long since a whale had washed up in Lane County, nobody could remember how to get rid of one.
	In selecting its battle plan, the Highway Division decided the carcass couldn't be buried because it might soon be uncovered, it couldn't be cut up and then buried because nobody wanted to cut it up, and it couldn't be burned.
	So dynamite it was, some 20 cases or a half ton of it.
	The hope was that the long-dead Pacific gray whale would be almost disintegrated by the blast, and that any small pieces still around after the explosion would be taken care of by seagulls and other scavengers.
	Indeed, the seagulls had been standing nearby all day.
	As everything was being made ready, we asked George Thornton, a highway engineer in charge of the project, for his final observation.
	Well, I'm confident that it'll work.
	The only thing is we're not sure just exactly how much explosives it'll take to disintegrate this.
	Things so the scavengers, seagulls and crabs and whatnot can clean it up.
	Is there any chance it might be more than a one-day job?
	If there's any large chunks left and we may have to do some other cleanup, possibly set another charge.
	The dynamite was buried primarily on the leeward side of the big mammal so as most of the remains would be blown toward the sea.
	About 75 bystanders, most of them residents who had first found the whale to be an object of curiosity before they tired of its smell, were moved back a quarter of a mile away.
	The sand dunes there were covered with spectators and land lubber newsmen, shortly to become land blubber newsmen, with a blast blasted blubber beyond all believable bounds.
	What's going on now on the screen Here's a countdown.
	10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 whoop
	yay look at that ohhh
	ohhh alright Fred you can sit there and bow to your uncle
	here comes the pieces of the blast wow
	our camera stopped rolling immediately after the blast The humor of the entire situation suddenly gave way to a run for survival as huge chunks of whale blubber fell everywhere.
	Pieces of meat passed high over our heads while others were falling at our feet.
	The dunes were rapidly evacuated as spectators escaped both the falling debris and the overwhelming smell.
	A parked car over a quarter of a mile from the blast site was the target of one large chunk.
	The passenger compartment literally smashed.
	Fortunately, no human was hit as badly as the car.
	However, everyone on the scene was covered with small particles of dead whale.
	As for the success of the effort, well, the seagulls who were supposed to clean things up were nowhere in sight, either scared away by the explosion or kept away by the smell.
	That didn't really matter.
	The remaining chunks were of such a size that no respectable seagull would attempt to tackle anyway.
	As darkness began to set in, the highway crews were back on the beach burying the remains, including a large piece of the carcass, which never left the blast site.
	It might be concluded that should a whale ever wash ashore in Lane County again, those in charge will not only remember what to do, they'll certainly remember what not to do.
	So, that was the report.
	Walt, I just want to give them one more little plug here, and then it's back to you.
	Look, this report has only, at one other time in all its 25 year history, been released to anybody to run.
	And that was to, I think, KGO in San Francisco that did a piece on it.
	And so I feel very honored that KAPU allowed us to run it.
	They're very nice people up there in Portland.
	And once again, you can see it for yourself.
	The video that goes with the report, if you're in Portland, It'll be Wednesday, November 1st in their newscast at 5 p.m.
	and 6.30 and then 11 as well.
	With the series airing Thursday and Friday, November 2nd and 3rd at 5, 6, 30 and 11.
	So don't miss it.
	And thanks to Doug Brazil, the news director, and everybody else at KATU.
	It was a rare opportunity and I'm glad we could provide it for you.
	Well, Walt, there it was.
	Sound familiar?
	You know, one thing that's always puzzled me about this is, it's a known fact that if you get underneath the bureaucrats and get them all upset about something, you usually get an IRS audit.
	What I never could understand is, I was the only one who protested what this guy was doing, how the hell he ever directed that piece of wheel to the top of my car, but he didn't.
	Did you get audited?
	No.
	No?
	Um, did they promptly pay up?
	I mean, they paid me in two days.
	In two days?
	Yeah, I got a check in two days.
	I think what they were really afraid of, this thing had really made the newspapers, and the AP Wire Service, and I had people from Germany send me the newspapers and relatives I have over there.
	And I think what they were afraid of is probably all these people could have sued them, at least for new clothes.
	When we got home, we had to rent a car to go home in.
	Yes.
	And it was cold.
	We had to have all the windows down all the way home.
	That's how bad it was.
	Now, when you were in Atkinson, who is not living anymore and was a hell of a big guy, it was so funny because he went in the garage and his wife came out and she made him strip naked in the garage and wouldn't let him in the house.
	Now, you know, you're looking back at this and it's obvious you can laugh.
	But on the day that it actually happened, did people at that moment really see the humor in this?
	I'm talking about the group that was actually there and had all this stuff falling on them.
	They probably weren't laughing.
	It wasn't funny at all.
	It's absolutely amazing that no one was seriously injured.
	That's what I tried to tell this guy when he was doing it.
	I don't know what people would ask.
	and learn from it would not have like that i would like to tell somebody
	you know and and uh... it was like a bit of turned out to be a funny
	story but thank god
	uh... indeed walk i would like to submit uh... just a few moments of questions
	from listeners this is such a famous story that i thought i'd let you take
	a couple calls you will do that or
	i don't know what people would ask uh... it's all pretty self-explanatory but we
	can find out the rockies your on the air with walt common hopper uh...
	it Hello there.
	Hi.
	Hi, where are you?
	In Eugene, Oregon.
	Eugene, Oregon.
	All right.
	Well, you're on the air.
	This is Ron in Houston, Texas.
	I'm on Eugene, Oregon.
	Oh, Ron in Houston, Texas.
	Yeah, that's what I meant to ask, where you were.
	Yes, sir.
	Okay, well, you're on the air with Walt.
	Okay.
	I was...
	Well, that's who you got.
	We're on the air now.
	You're on the air with Walt.
	Okay.
	I have been really impressed with just the levity and the interest in the variation of projects that you bring forward through the people.
	Well, what you're saying in a word is I've got a weird show, sir.
	Thank you.
	I hate to put a damper on it, but some of the things that you brought out over the last two weeks that I've been trying to get through to you... Well, that wouldn't be the moment for it, sir.
	We've got questions here for Walt and only a few more moments with him.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Walt Amannhofer.
	Hi.
	Hello, Walt.
	Well, I was actually not calling with any questions regarding the whale.
	I was trying to get a hold of you if I could ask you a couple other things.
	Well, then you'll have to do that after our guest, sir.
	Wild Card Line 2, you're on the air with Walt Amenhopper.
	Hi.
	Yeah, quick comment first.
	Do you know that this isn't the first time something like this has happened?
	I think it was done once before.
	Right, Northern California.
	When I was in college in 1978, my professor told us about an incident in Northern California where they tried to blow a whale up.
	Same kind of thing.
	Where they tried?
	Yeah, it didn't, um, it just kind of splattered, he said.
	It wasn't quite as, uh, quite a big show as what happened up in Oregon.
	Just kind of splattered all over the place and the main carcass was still left.
	Has anybody, I'm curious, uh, anybody come up with an actual good way to dispose of a whale?
	I saw at the end they sort of buried it in the sand?
	I think that's what they did in this case, too.
	It's just, it's an impossible situation.
	In other words, whales don't Would you say that, Walt, that whales don't really... Well, part of it blew up, but there was so much of it left... I think better than half of it was still intact.
	Then whales don't blow up easily.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Walt Omenhofer.
	Hi, John from Milwaukee?
	Yes.
	Turn your radio off, sir.
	Huh?
	Turn your radio off.
	It's off.
	Okay, good.
	Was there anyone that yelled, uh, THERE SHE BLOWS!
	I don't think so.
	Probably would have been a good idea.
	Okay, thanks.
	Was there any kind of countdown?
	The television supplied one, Walt.
	It was very dramatic.
	But was there any kind of countdown they did otherwise on the site?
	I don't think so.
	All I remember is them waving their hats at one, you know, it was all clear.
	How about fire in the hole or something like that?
	Yeah, they should have yelled thumping.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Walt Oppenhofer.
	Hi.
	Hey, Art, how you doing?
	Walt?
	Good.
	Walt, now what about these environmentalists?
	Are all these guys going crazy because someone blew up a whale?
	Well, they would now, believe me.
	Biologists and everybody and they weren't screaming, That was back in the good old days, let's put it that way.
	Today they would probably scream bloody murder.
	So there's no big protest when someone blew up a whale?
	No.
	Now, bear in mind, this whale had, as Rush would say, assumed room temperature to the point where it was hard to stay in the vicinity.
	So, I guess that's your answer.
	Where are you, sir?
	We're in Houston, Texas.
	Houston, alright.
	I'm wondering about your book.
	Um, well, it's on the way.
	Are you going to get that second edition?
	Um, it's in print now.
	Because I was wondering, what's the big advantage to the first edition?
	Well, listen, I don't want to go into that right now.
	No, you listen.
	Don't tell me to listen.
	Um, well, no.
	Well, all right.
	Goodbye.
	I know who he is.
	He's a guy who calls and yells every morning.
	Welcome to the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Walt Almanhoffer.
	Hello.
	Hey, Walt.
	Sounds like a wild story there.
	I was trying to picture myself being in that scene.
	Oh, this is Bill from Olympia in case anyone cares.
	Um, and I'm trying to imagine watching this oil blow up and all this stuff coming down, and I'm trying to decide, what, do I run or do I watch the fall and dodge the big ones?
	That's a good point.
	In other words, running, you wouldn't see one coming at you, at least if you stood in one place and kind of dodged around a little bit, you'd have a, that's a good point, Walt.
	Yeah, that's what I kind of did.
	I stood there, in fact, I watched the big piece hit my car, figuring, you know, I don't know if a person would ever dodge it or not if it really come at you.
	That stuff moving pretty fast.
	Well, that's what I was kind of trying to figure out.
	Dodge or run, which one would work?
	You know, when you told it, Walt, and thank you, caller, it kind of reminded me, I like Roadrunner cartoons and I used to watch cartoons where things would go up and you kind of pictured it as going way up and then sort of stopping and suspending for a moment.
	That's exactly what it did.
	As it reached its highest point and then of course I suppose then slowly it would seem from the ground that it would begin falling back toward you, that kind of deal.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Walt Oppenhofer.
	Hello.
	Yeah, what kind of car was that?
	It was a 98 Regency.
	A what?
	A Oldsmobile Regency.
	A Regency.
	A brand new one, too.
	Yeah.
	A brand... A brand new, smelly Regency.
	Okay, thank you.
	Yeah, where are you, by the way?
	Oklahoma City.
	Oklahoma City, alright.
	Yeah, a brand new one.
	That must have been heartbreaking.
	I mean, you know, again... Yeah, we can laugh now.
	But, I know how you feel when you have a brand new car.
	Uh, there's nothing like it.
	It must have been heartbreaking.
	Actually, you know, it was a pretty serious thing until after it was over.
	But then it became funny when nobody was hurt.
	At the scene or later at home when you were laughing about it?
	Later at home.
	Uh-huh.
	Yeah.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Walt Omenhofer.
	Hello.
	Uh, yeah, this is Ron from Palmdale.
	Hello, Ron.
	Yeah, this story kind of reminds me of the old days when I used to shoot a fireworks show, Class B to Explosives, and I was wiring a finale for, I'm trying to think of the place, Doesn't matter, wherever it was.
	You were doing a show.
	Yeah, and we were wiring a finale, and I was talking to this guy, old explosives guy, and he told me about a story when they were somewhere in Europe blowing bridges up, and he said, you know, kid, when you want to blow something up, my teacher told me, you figure out how much dynamite you need, and you double it.
	And this guy reminds me of this guy telling me this story.
	Is there actually, Walt, any way to calculate how much dynamite it would have taken to, as they wish to do, obliviate or turn into little tiny particles?
	I think what they should have done if they were going to use explosives, you know, was put some, maybe a case or two in single sticks on top of the well and put sand on top of it.
	so it would do it kind of blow it apart in place more or less you'd still have
	to bury the people but at least you have smaller pieces to bury yeah but and but
	this guy thought he was gonna by putting the dynamite on the inboard side he
	figured he was gonna blow the whole thing out the ocean hmm it didn't work
	that way hmm wild card line you're on the air with Walt Almanhoffer hello oh
	hello hi yeah about that well Yes.
	The right thing to do is put a bar across the whale.
	Do what?
	A steel bar.
	A steel bar?
	Yeah, put it across the whale.
	Yes.
	And then tie a rope and drag it out to sea.
	Then you blow it up.
	That's what they probably could have done.
	In fact, if I remember that time, there was a pretty good-sized tug in form.
	And if I had just, you know, got a big net or something and put around it and put some dynamite in it and drug it out a couple of miles and then touched it off.
	Well, see, that's why I really, the only part of this story that I don't have and I wish I could get and I will pursue is the genesis of it.
	When these guys were sitting around, whether it was in an office or in a bar after work, whatever, you know, how they came up with this.
	That would be good to know.
	The minutes of the meeting where they planned it.
	Well, somewhere he got a rule of thumb.
	Case of dynamite per ton of whale.
	Per ton of whale.
	Did you spend a lot of time arguing with him that this was a bad idea?
	Yeah, well, I got cut off pretty quick, you know.
	You don't argue with a bureaucrat when he's in charge.
	But I tried.
	In the interview, he seemed very confident.
	Very confident.
	Yes.
	Now, you must have seen that interview Actually going on.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Oh, you did.
	So there he was.
	Yeah, he looked pretty proud.
	And his only attitude after all of this was over, reflectively, was that he had not used enough dynamite.
	That's what he told the guy from Sports Illustrated.
	West of the Rockies, running out of time, you're on the air with Walt Amenhoffer.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Art Bell.
	Yes, where are you?
	I'm in Redding, Northern California.
	All right.
	Hey, I have something I thought you might find interesting.
	Oh, well, we've got a guest on.
	Are you listening?
	Well, actually, I've been away from the radio.
	Well, actually, then, I've got to move on.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Walt Oppenhofer.
	Hi.
	Hey, Walt.
	What's happening?
	Hey, Art.
	How are you?
	Well, I'm Art.
	He's a caller.
	I'm Aaron.
	I'm aware.
	How are you all this evening?
	Good.
	Fine.
	What's on your mind?
	Well, you know, I was thinking of some famous different stories waiting on the line, and I recall seeing some pictures of a friend that a friend brought back from Newfoundland one time.
	I don't know how long or far into the winter season you were in, but they had a sperm whale wash up in their town that was fresh dead, and the city made an activity out of utilizing every bit of the whale, as the old whalers did.
	The blubber, the bones.
	All for practical purposes.
	Well, I think, uh, this is just hazarding a guess, but Walt, from what you've told me of the condition of the whale, uh, it's not something you'd carve up and take home for the dinner table.
	Yeah, it was pretty rank.
	I don't know how long the thing had been dead, but it was kind of gooey, you know?
	Oh my God, gooey.
	That's, uh, gooey.
	Oh, that's awful.
	Well, listen, I don't know how to thank you, Walt.
	Well, that's great.
	You have helped correct, actually verify what until now has been myth.
	So bless your heart for staying up with us, Walt.
	And, you know, something like that, of course, never would happen to somebody twice.
	But I'd be careful where I parked.
	Okay.
	Take care, partner.
	See you later.
	The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More somewhere in time, coming up.
	♪♪ What kind of?
	♪♪ ♪♪
	Premier Network presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from October 25, 1995.
	And now we're going to shift gears.
	It's a big shift of gears, everybody.
	But that's what this program does, as you will learn as time goes on.
	There is an investigative reporter that, because of the rate of our affiliate acquisition, a lot of you may not know.
	He is a mainstream, mainline reporter, investigative reporter for the Pittsburgh Tribune Review.
	He has been doggedly hanging on the Vince Foster story when others have fallen away through pack laziness or maybe just being too comfortable, or we don't know, a lot of reasons.
	You know, the press is scared from the story.
	You may recall 60 Minutes a few weeks ago, did a couple weeks ago, three maybe, did a big story on Chris Ruddy, which I consider to be a flat-out hatchet job, in which a lot of Chris Ruddy's interviews left on the cutting room floor.
	We talked to Chris Ruddy shortly after that.
	Chris Ruddy has shocking blockbuster news for you this morning about the Foster investigation.
	There has been a breakthrough.
	And so here he is, all the way from New York.
	Thank you very much for getting up at this hour, Chris, in the middle of the night.
	Well, I'm not really getting up.
	Yeah, that's right.
	You haven't been to bed yet.
	I guess I'm going to sleep through.
	Well, all right.
	There's been a big development, Chris.
	Right.
	When did you learn about this?
	Well, it's not a breakthrough.
	I think it's a foundational earthquake.
	If you thought the Watergate burglary was something significant, I don't think that that even compares to this.
	Today, in Washington, there was a press conference held by Strategic Investment Financial Newsletter.
	Prestigious newsletter, James Dale Davidson, who heads the National Taxpayers Union, hosted it.
	They brought in three forensic handwriting experts, two from the United States, one formerly with the New York City Police Department, another with the Massachusetts Attorney General's Criminal Unit in Boston.
	And a third one, eminent scholar from Oxford University, 30-year lecture on the handwriting and forgery detection, had ruled on the C.F.
	Lewis Diaries, noted English author, several years ago.
	He's been a consultant to British... The bottom line is he's a preeminent world-recognized expert On handwriting.
	And I should underscore that by telling the audience, I spoke with this man earlier today on the telephone.
	Yeah, well, anyone that speaks to him knows that he knows his business.
	And he has been called into dispute.
	We're talking here about, let's say you find an ancient manuscript and you say, well, Shakespeare wrote this.
	If he really did write it, it's worth a million dollars.
	Uh, so usually they call in, uh, the Mike Tyson of handwriting experts, and that is Reginald Ernest Alton, Mr. Alton from Oxford University.
	Right.
	Mr. Alton came in just for the press conference, and they announced the results of their review of a torn note that was found in Vince Foster's briefcase almost a week after he died, pieced together, 28 pieces.
	And they concluded, all three of them, that the note was a forgery.
	A forgery?
	Yes.
	Vince, I'm gonna ask you to do something, because in light of this news, I would say the content of the letter, and I remember the content of the letter, the content of the letter was, in my opinion, Very, very suspicious.
	Well, I'll tell you what I said about it at the time, that it could have come straight out of the White House Press Office.
	Now, do you have a copy of that letter?
	And if you do, would you read it to us, please?
	Or have I caught you by surprise?
	No.
	Just a matter of reaching across here.
	OK.
	Well, I figured somewhere you'd have that.
	I'll tell you what.
	I'll tell you what.
	Let me read it.
	I have it right.
	Maybe I should look in the Table of Contents.
	I'll tell you what, this is a good place.
	Fine.
	I'll take a break.
	It's that important.
	I'll just give you a couple of minutes to find it.
	I got it.
	You got it?
	Yeah.
	Go.
	I made mistakes from ignorance and experience and overwork.
	I did not knowingly violate any law or standard of conduct.
	No one in the White House, to my knowledge, violated any law or standard of conduct, including any action in the travel office.
	There was no intent to benefit any individual or specific group.
	The FBI lied in their report to the AG.
	The press is covering up the illegal benefits they received from the travel office.
	The GOP has lied and misrepresented its knowledge and its role and covered up a prior investigation.
	The Usher's office plotted to have excessive costs incurred taking advantage of cocky and HRC.
	The public will never believe the innocence of the Clintons and their loyal staff.
	The Wall Street Journal editorial editors lie without consequence.
	I was not meant for the job.
	or the spotlight of public life in Washington.
	Here, ruining people is considered sport.
	And that's it?
	That's it.
	The part that really grabbed me was the...
	Just, in a suicide note, it...
	I don't think you would say the public would never believe the innocence of the Clintons.
	Well, it was interesting.
	Mr. Alton said, you know, he said, anytime you have a note that suddenly appears when there needs to be such document, and that it seemingly benefits someone, it's just immediate cause for concern.
	And of course, here you have so many disjointed statements that all the experts believe.
	That these statements had been taken from other documents that he had maybe had written in other contexts and had been put together.
	A good forger will always try to imitate known writings of the person they're trying to forge.
	Well, of course.
	Of course.
	Which is why the letter doesn't mention suicide or death, because Vince Foster apparently didn't write, I'm going to kill myself or goodbye world.
	And yet, that sounded like kind of a summary note.
	Nevertheless, I mean, summarizing everything to this point with something in mind, without having said suicide, it did sound kind of final, a summation of the failure or however you want to look at it.
	At the press conference, there were a number of reporters, a number of television networks.
	I don't think it ran on any of the television networks.
	Well, there we come to a very interesting question.
	Now, Reuters ran the story.
	People have been faxing it to me all day long.
	There's a lot of excitement about it out there.
	Reuters ran the story.
	You say the networks were there.
	CBS and NBC.
	Oh, really?
	Yes.
	How could they possibly ignore evidence of this sort?
	I mean, I guess CBS could choose to ignore it, protecting its 60 minutes division, but What about the others?
	And what about the Associated Press?
	And what about... Well, you know, the Associated Press is the major news outlet in the country.
	And they didn't send a reporter.
	And then they got a copy of the report, and they said they were going to do a full news story, or at least a dispatch.
	I mean, here, Reuters did a major dispatch twice the length that they usually do on these type of stories.
	And the AP editors in Washington were telling people, yeah, we're going to do a story, and it ends up they do what's the classic, bury the story.
	They save it for two paragraphs, literally, at the end of a long story on whitewater hearings that nobody's interested in in Washington.
	That a panel of experts has declared that the poster notices suicide, the government contends otherwise, blah blah blah.
	But this is now Panel of three international forensic experts, and they are saying, apparently, now you tell me, without qualification, it's a forgery.
	How did they come to that conclusion?
	Okay, well before they even get to the issue of forgery, they're also saying that the FBI and the Park Police totally mishandled it.
	That nowhere in forensic examination do you ever compare a note like this, or any note, to one document.
	To make the certification, which is exactly what the Park Police and the FBI did.
	So the big question mark is, why did they suspend the normal procedure?
	And I quote in my article, which you have, the FBI Crime Lab Assistant Director and the former head of the Question Document Unit at the Bureau of State, you know, he wanted a minimum of 10 documents.
	Well, obviously there was funny business.
	The FBI Crime Lab, as we all know, is now Under close scrutiny, there's going to be an international panel put together to look into the FBI crime lab.
	Well, who knows?
	There may be a lot of crime going on there.
	Well, sticking with the note for a second, the declaration that it is a forgery is a blockbuster.
	I mean, if that's a forgery, then the whole damn thing comes apart.
	Well, there's a couple of reasons why.
	First of all, there was a great cause for suspicion.
	Because the note is found in a briefcase that was searched.
	But the police said that they were suspicious of the fact that that briefcase was searched twice and was empty when Nufftown looked at it.
	Second, it benefited the people at the White House and took the onus off of proving that this is suicide.
	Third, it was torn.
	And apparently the expert said any time you have a document, a questioned document that is torn, Mutilated, crumpled, something spilled on it.
	It is oftentimes an effort to make the comparison difficult.
	So already you have a prima facie case, as the English expert said, of suspicion.
	Then you look at the note, and first of all, the note, if you look at the note, which we have a photocopy of, we had a huge blow-up of it, Right.
	and compare it you can see that it is not a match, that the way the stroke structures
	are done, the flow, the slant of the letters is not the same.
	So then from a clear handwriting expertise point of view, which is a good science, it's
	a forgery.
	Well, it is a forgery and the other thing is what they were able to show in large blow-ups
	was that certain letters, like when you write a letter, let's say the letter B, you might
	only write that letter, lowercase b, with one stroke.
	You start at the top, you go down to the bottom, you round it out, and then the last stroke is going over to the next letter, the end of the stroke.
	But a forger will not do it that way.
	He'll write the line down.
	He'll stop the stroke.
	He might take the bow of the letter B and start from the top and bring it around.
	And you can see this on a large blow-up, and that's what they were able to show, that the letter B, for example, was done in three-stroke structures, strokes, unlike Foster, who had a very continuous, easy style of writing.
	We had a dozen documents that we compared it to from three different sources.
	So it's very, very clear that it isn't a match.
	You know, this is starting to get very dangerous for some people, Chris, at this point.
	Like you.
	Like me.
	Like anybody who's got anything to do with saying what we're saying right now, but this has got to lead.
	It's got to lead to the next step.
	And so you're asking a couple of things, aren't you?
	You want, based on this report, you want more coverage.
	You want, what would, where do we go from here?
	If you were in charge of the investigation, if you were The person pursuing this story right now, other than as a journalist, you know, in official charge, and you realize you had a forgery on your hands, where do you go?
	Well, if I was Ken Starr, I realized I had a forgery, I would realize immediately that there's a strong likelihood, as we said at the conference today, that this is a murder.
	You have a much stronger case than it was in America.
	If it was just a simple suicide, they wouldn't have gone to this length to cover it up.
	Either way, though, it's a president-stopping story, possibly.
	In other words, it's obstruction of justice, and that will take the president out of office every time, if he was aware of it.
	Well, whether he was aware of it or not, you know, Nixon wasn't apparently aware of the burglary.
	Apparently this administration may be aware of much that goes on.
	Okay, stay good and close to the phone, you're getting hard to hear.
	Yeah.
	There, okay, that's better.
	So, obstruction of justice at the least, murder maybe, at the most?
	Obviously there was an effort to conceal, mislead, All right, Chris, hold on a second.
	into this obstruct police investigators into this case.
	We have to remember that William Sessions, the head of the FBI, was fired the day before
	Foster's death.
	I do recall.
	And he has charged in a written statement that his firing led to a, quote, compromised,
	unquote, investigation into Foster's death.
	Alright, Chris, hold on a second.
	We'll be right back to you.
	This is big news.
	With all of the other inconsistencies that Chris has listed for us in the past, this goes to me way beyond an inconsistency.
	This is not quite, but well maybe it is, kind of a smoking gun.
	Sorry, but in a case of this magnitude, where you're talking about the President's Council A man who would have information, definitely have information, if such existed, that would damage that president or the first lady.
	And when you've now got a suicide note that the world's experts say is forged, you've got a very serious story.
	I hope you were all listening very closely this morning.
	For Coast Insiders, it offers the ability to download the most recent shows, so you can listen to them at your leisure.
	The new app also has listen live and streaming features, plus recaps, contacts, and upcoming show info.
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	Check out our new app at the Google Play or iTunes stores, or link from the Coast website.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from October 25th, 1995.
	Music.
	A few minutes before the bottom of the hour, Chris.
	You want people To call the Associated Press, don't you?
	Well, as a journalist, I can't suggest for people to call anyone.
	But I could.
	Yeah, well... In other words, you want... I think that the Associated Press should have covered this story, and I think that the American people have a right to know what happened at that press conference today, and what those experts said.
	Now, the Associated Press, what they did was, as I said, they threw it In a article at the very end and a couple of paragraphs, not like Reuters or the other.
	Why is it that the people in London, which have nothing to do with this country directly, have gotten the full story on this doc... They have a half page in the Times of London devoted to this story.
	In today's edition, it's already out here.
	We already have fax copies of it.
	This London Telegraph has a full story on this.
	Do you feel that if the Associated Press picked it up properly, that's the word we'll use, prominently, that then the larger networks would have no choice but to follow on?
	Well, I think that it would have been more likely that the networks would have followed with the story.
	There's a herd instinct, the Associated Press is one of the lead news items, but it's really not their job to determine what The American people should or shouldn't know.
	They should be reporting.
	Not just that there were three experts here that came in and gave their opinion.
	One of the world's preeminent handwriting experts came into this country.
	Kind of the Dr. Lee of handwriting.
	Yeah.
	Well, actually, he has a lot less baggage than Dr. Lee, frankly.
	And unlike Dr. Lee, he asked for no fee to do this analysis.
	Oh, now that's interesting.
	So, in other words, there could be no other...
	External motivation other than trying to get to the truth.
	Well, the funny thing is, um, Dr. Alton knew very little about the case.
	I mean, he's been hearing a lot about it today and he's quite shocked.
	Sure.
	About it.
	But he looked at it just as a matter of looking at this note and comparing it to a dozen documents that Foster is known to have written.
	And he said that it's not a match.
	It was a, it was a forgery and he can see how the forger All right, hold it right there.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	We'll be right back with Chris Ruddy, and we'll tell you how to get hold of the Associated Press.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
	It's a great show.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AF, from October 25th, 1995.
	Actually, in a moment, once again, Chris Ruddy, investigative journalist, with breaking news.
	I consider this to be big, breaking news.
	He works for the Pittsburgh Tribune Review, and he has doggedly stayed with this story,
	and we'll get back to him in just a moment.
	thunder Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM.
	Nobody wants terrorism, obviously.
	But I don't know who to believe anymore.
	Because, you know, if something happens, you would think, oh my gosh, this is real terrorism.
	But then on the other hand, you say, this is just their way of saying we need to implement more
	of these controls.
	Not everything is a conspiracy.
	The problem is, you have to look at everything as if it's a conspiracy.
	Because nowadays, you just don't know.
	Now, we take you back to the past, on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Art Bell Somewhere in Time Art Bell Somewhere in Time
	Back now to Chris Ruddy.
	Chris, you there?
	Yes, I am.
	Alright, good.
	Chris, this really is a blockbuster.
	I mean, this is a...
	To me, as you said earlier, this makes Watergate pale by comparison.
	There you're talking about a third great burglary for some nefarious political purpose.
	Here you might be talking about, at the least, obstruction of justice in that a body was moved and a story was manufactured, or murder.
	Right, whatever it is, it doesn't, it isn't, uh, even if justice was subverted, if the FBI didn't use their proper procedures in investigating this, the park police used an examiner to certify the document that, that never, uh, was certified as a handwriting expert.
	Uh, so obviously no one really cared to properly investigate this.
	Mr. Scalise, one of the experts formerly with the New York City Police Department, was on the House Committee for Assassination, and he was the one that detected or found the palm print of Lee Harvey Oswald on the rifle butt.
	He is an expert in latent fingerprints.
	A note was torn for the audience and the reporters today.
	It's 28 pieces, and they were shown how many fingers had to come in contact with different pieces of paper.
	Mr. Scalise said in his statement that this is consistent.
	The fact that they had no fingerprints or no latent impressions on these papers is consistent with the person who tore it having worn gloves.
	So it's a forgery.
	So we've got a gigantic story.
	So the Associated Press... Now, give me what you can.
	I know this is touchy territory, Christopher.
	Well, the AP today promised a number of people that called in the media world here in Washington and elsewhere that they were going to do a dispatch.
	May have been, you know, a short story, but it would be a story.
	And when people were calling up, they said, yeah, we did it, we're doing it, or we did it.
	Well, we find out what did it meant was two paragraphs, three paragraphs at the end of a very long article on Whitewater and Senate hearings.
	Uh, which is a typical way of burying a story.
	Here they're talking about all these things going on with subpoenas and they're saying, by the way, three experts are saying that the note is a forgery, which is like, you know, sort of saying, you know, writing on the news after the day the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, you know, talking about what happened between the Yankees and the White Sox and saying, and by the way, at the end of that story, you know, there was a bomb dropped on Hiroshima.
	And, you know, it's just patently ridiculous how it was framed.
	Okay, so what happened at the AP?
	So, we're told that this decision was made at the highest levels at the AP.
	That the story would be run this way?
	Right.
	That they were going to do a story, that the AP reporter was frustrated, he was not allowed to write one, and This administration has a very close relationship with the Associated Press, and very rarely do stories get on the AP wire that are critical of this administration.
	I mean, even Clinton making his comments about flip-flopping on taxes.
	Again, that was a story that the Reuters writer wrote.
	AP didn't carry that.
	This has got to bring it to critical mass.
	I'm going to do it.
	I just confirmed the number.
	I don't just give out numbers without confirming them.
	I'm going to give the audience the Washington Associated Press Bureau number.
	There should be outrage.
	The audience should be aware.
	If you call it, in all probability, they're going to say, well, we ran it.
	Just as Chris told you, they will say.
	But it was buried.
	They ran it.
	They ran it so that it Well, almost wouldn't be read.
	And that's outrageous!
	This is a gigantic story!
	So... The Washington Associated Press Bureau number is... Area Code 2027769400 Let me read that again.
	7 7 6 9 4 0 0 let me read that again area code 202 7 7 6 9400 Anybody out there who feels this is an outrage should have that number.
	And it's good, what Chris, 24 hours a day?
	Yeah, 24 hours a day.
	There's people at AP answering the phone.
	And certainly they're open The public has a right to let AP know if they feel something newsworthy, they want to hear about it.
	No one ever said they couldn't call.
	I rarely, if ever, do this kind of thing, Chris.
	But, damn it all, this is a really big story, and if it takes pressure, so that by tomorrow morning, you know, the guy is telling his boss, who'll tell his boss, hey boss, we're starting to get a lot of pressure, On this forgery story, maybe we better sit down and have a powwow about this.
	Well, I think after they get 10,000 phone calls, and all they're doing is answering up phones for the next week, that somebody's going to say, hey, wait a minute, the American people are not fooled
	and uh... you know this is you know it's something reminiscent of uh... you know
	the i've behind the iron curtain before for the berlin wall fell
	it is a little bit of that chris you know i'm overstating it slightly here
	but the point is that here you have a major news event that took place a
	prestigious financial newsletter held a conference
	a preeminent expert They used more examples and exemplars than the government
	did.
	They demonstrated how the government did not handle it properly.
	They demonstrated why it was a forgery over ten separate different points.
	And yet, and yet, and yet, it was not on the top of the news.
	It's not on the top of the newspapers.
	AP ran it in two or three paragraphs at the end of its story.
	I want to ask you a question, Chris.
	I am not I'm a fan of Bill Clinton's, particularly his administration.
	I don't like the way he operates.
	But I'm also not one of his dire enemies.
	I'm not a Rush Limbaugh.
	And I really, really do want the audience to understand that I'm not just out to get a president, but my God, the truth ought to be out on this!
	If this is a cover-up or a big obstruction of justice, whether or not it goes to that level, I just don't see how they can ignore this.
	Well, let's get something straight.
	Truth is not Republican or Democrat.
	It's just truth.
	One of the reasons why I think we're not having progress, as much progress as we shouldn't, getting to the bottom of the foster case... That's why I've said this.
	Well, is that the corruption goes to both parties here.
	Yes.
	That's number one.
	I don't disagree.
	Number two, one of the main supporters of my work, is James Dale Davidson, head of strategic investment, chairman of the National Taxpayers Union.
	He is a former friend of Bill Clinton.
	Gave the maximum amount allowable campaign contribution in 92.
	Went to renaissance weekends with the Clintons.
	To Arkansas balls when he was the inaugurated governor.
	And he thinks that the evidence here is just shocking and overwhelming.
	I didn't come into this saying Boy, I want to get Bill Clinton.
	I'm looking at the evidence.
	Where does the evidence take me?
	It doesn't say Bill Clinton murdered Vince Foster or Hillary Clinton.
	It says that something smells here.
	That Vince Foster, if he's a friend of the President's, or if he's just a local worker at the local deli, he deserves to have the same police investigation.
	You know, you've got to wonder.
	If you'd had this report, and the news conference had already occurred, when 60 Minutes came to you, whether they would have even included this in the report?
	They probably wouldn't have.
	And you know, the funny thing is, a number of people say, well, Mrs. Foster has identified the note.
	Well, as the experts pointed out, the English expert was telling a number of funny stories where People believe, the family members believe, they had actual documents when they really had forgeries of loved ones and things like this.
	That a family doesn't have a particularly trained eye, and if a forger is a good forger, they can fool anyone!
	Well, except, I guess, the full-blown experts.
	I mean, there have been people in museums fooled by forged artwork.
	Uh, but then there are levels of experts they can bring in that absolutely determine this is either the real McCoy or a fake.
	Right.
	And so you have, in effect, done exactly the same thing.
	You brought in the really big guns and their report was conclusive, Chris?
	Uh, absolutely.
	They concluded forgery.
	They didn't say, well, it could have been, it might have been.
	They said it was actually a pretty crude forgery.
	Mr. Alton, the English expert, is quoted as saying something to the effect that the forger was a fairly good forger, but could forger check, but he wasn't a real pro.
	That's how he described him.
	Well, whoever would be involved, presumably, would not have had a lot of time.
	Yeah, apparently there were several days.
	Of course, as you know, it took about a week.
	There were several days, apparently, to put this together.
	The experts believe that they used known handwritings of Vince Foster and copied them.
	And of course, you know, this machine that the White House has, the government has, to simulate handwriting.
	No, I did not.
	Well, yes, they have high, tight High-powered scanners and also pen machines that can mimic the President's signature.
	Well, more than that.
	And in fact, they believe that some of the words and sentences were so similar in stroke structure within the document itself that there's the possibility that in fact whole sentences were lifted from other documents.
	Chris, how would you describe this moment in the continuing investigation?
	Is this a lynchpin?
	Is this a crucial, critical moment where either, dammit, this story is going to be pursued or the princes of darkness that cover this kind of thing up are going to win?
	Well, the problem here is that, you know, Ambrose Evans Pritchard is the great reporter from the English-British Telegraph.
	And he has said, you know, if we had a video of someone murdering Vince Foster, they still wouldn't believe it.
	Ambrose just published a story this Sunday, it wasn't carried on the AP, I wonder why, about a witness that was in Fort Marcy on the night Foster died.
	He came in, he was the first one to spot Foster's car, and he told the FBI and the Park Police that there was a Hispanic man there, sitting next to Foster's car, watching it.
	Menacing him with very menacing looks, followed him as he urinated in the park, and this witness left immediately.
	The park police never went and visited him to interview him.
	They spelled his name wrong in the police report.
	When the FBI visited with him, the FBI said, well, who was this man that gave you menacing looks, this Mexican-American man?
	And the FBI interview statement states very clearly that the witness was unable to identify or would be unable to identify in a lineup or a composite sketch who this man was.
	Well, there it is in the London Telegraph this Sunday, a composite sketch of the man he saw at the park.
	The FBI, out and out, lied in their report.
	Now, this would maybe be a mistake.
	If it happened once, but we have so many instances in this case.
	You know, there were two witnesses later in the park that saw two men in and around Foster's car.
	They've said it on the record.
	One guy was standing with long blonde hair in front of Foster's Honda with the hood up just before the body was found.
	All right, look, Chris, you're pushing this one to the edge and you're beginning to now tamper.
	You know, in other words, If the worst-case scenario is true, which seems now more likely than ever to me, based on the forgery thing, then you're tampering with forces that have already gone an awful long way here and have an awful lot at stake.
	And even though you're a big-time reporter, I'm not convinced that you're safe.
	Well, there's risks involved in anything you do.
	I've taken those risks and will continue to take those risks because this is a very important story.
	The chips will have to fall where they may.
	If they fall on me, I'll just take that when it comes.
	You've given some amount of thought to this, though.
	I mean, what... Well, look, if in fact this was a murder, I am one of the prime people behind exposing it.
	Yeah.
	I guess that's what I was saying.
	Well, and look, and look what, you know, here Mike Wallace did this piece, and I think I said this to you on the last time, you know, my brother called me up afterwards and he said, Chris, I, you know, I've known you your whole life.
	You've always been an honest person.
	You've never wanted a lot of money.
	You've never wanted the big job on Wall Street type person.
	And I just watched this and it makes you sound like you're A, a liar, and B, you're a charlatan trying to make money.
	Yeah.
	I took a pay cut to continue doing this story.
	So what do you say?
	I mean, how do you argue against that?
	Mike Wallace knew that.
	He knew that I'd never reported that Foster was left-handed first.
	That was the Boston Globe.
	But I was going to be held responsible for every error that any newspaper has ever done in this case.
	It only indicates to people out there that, do look into it, that I'm on the right track.
	It only indicates to me I'm on the right track.
	When they have to make such a smear, when Mike Wallace, who's almost 80 years old now, the Dean of American Television Journalism, has to bring down A thirty-year-old reporter, that's how old I am, and try to destroy his reputation.
	That shows that I'm having an impact.
	Well, if we look at it from the other direction, the implication is, and I'm not making the charge, but the implication is that the administration has control of very large segments of the media.
	And I'm not making that charge, but you could almost begin to believe that could be so because of the Associated Press under-reporting, because of 60 Minutes going after you as they did, and because the news now is so shocking that It has to be out there, and it's not.
	So what does that say?
	I mean, if you look at what it says, it says a large portion of the media is in bed with the government.
	Well, or the key media.
	I don't know if everyone, but the key media, the leaders.
	60 Minutes is the lead program.
	You know, Don Hewitt has gone on the record, he's the producer of 60 Minutes, saying that he helped get Clinton elected.
	After the Jennifer Flowers thing, that he edited that tape in such a way that he remade, recast Bill Clinton as the candidate.
	You know, ABC News has a very close association with this administration.
	A former Clinton campaign advisor was the head of the news for a while.
	Rick Kaplan.
	You know, so you see these connections that Clintons are not good at governing.
	But they're very good at dealing with the media, handling the media.
	It is spinning.
	Alright, look, I'm going to end the interview here, and I'm going to give out the number to the Associated Press again, Chris.
	Watch your back, my friend.
	Well, I appreciate it.
	And also, anyone that would like to get a compendium of my reports, From the Western Journalism Center.
	Yes, sir.
	Can call 1-800-952-5595.
	And for the enormous sum, I think, of $12, they get all of these reports that I've done.
	1-800-952-5595.
	Chris, thank you.
	Thank you.
	Get some sleep.
	That's Chris Ruddy, investigative journalist for the Pittsburgh Tribune Review.
	The Associated Press number, 24-hour number, in Washington, if you want to see this followed up on, is area code 202-776-9400.
	202-776-9400 202-776-9400
	Definitely bombshell material.
	The Vince Foster quote suicide end quote note is a forgery.
	We'll be back.
	The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More, somewhere in time, coming up.
	I'm going to be a little bit more.
	I'm going to be a little bit more.
	Somewhere in time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Premiere Network.
	Good morning.
	I'm Art Bell.
	And if you're just joining us, I'm sorry.
	We've had two hours of interviews.
	Both very different.
	One very funny, and one not funny at all.
	The first was with Walt Amenhopper.
	The poor fellow who had his car crushed by a giant hunk-o-well blubber.
	I may play that piece from Channel 2 for the later audience once again.
	In fact, I said I will.
	And the second hour, very serious indeed.
	A very tired Chris Ruddy, investigative reporter for the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.
	Laying out what occurred with regard to an incredible bombshell piece of information just breaking today.
	Some of the world's foremost forensic handwriting experts have declared the Vince Foster suicide notes to be a forgery.
	So you may well have comments on that.
	Alright, so that gives you kind of a background of the last couple of hours.
	Also ran, in the news, a horrible accident.
	Unimaginable.
	I cannot figure it out.
	How could it be?
	I'm sure you saw the terrible pictures.
	A train plowed into a school bus at an intersection.
	It had all the safety features there.
	You know, the ringing bells, flashing lights, the warning arms.
	You know, those arms that come down when a train is going to come.
	And apparently, there was an intersection, as there would be there.
	And here was the bus.
	About the last third, or maybe almost half of the bus, was on the tracks.
	Well, the bells start ringing.
	The lights start flashing while the bus is sitting there, and the arm comes down on top of the bus.
	One witness said there was a car in front of the bus.
	Others are not sure.
	Kids.
	It's just unbelievable.
	And, you know, the students, I am told, panicked, tried to run toward the front of the bus to get them, you know, some way to safety.
	They saw the train coming.
	The driver must have been aware the train was coming, but nothing helped.
	In an instant, there was terror and death.
	Five children were killed, two dozen injured, many of them critically.
	Kids were thrown through windows.
	One witness said there was blood everywhere.
	Bus never moved.
	The driver of the bus, a 54-year-old woman, Was described, understandably, as being hysterical.
	It's just, uh, unimaginable that she would not have put the, you know, even if there'd been a car in front of her, which some say there may have been, she would not have hit the gas, if necessary, pushing that car and her bus into the intersection rather than collide with a train That was doing 50 miles an hour and had zero chance of stopping.
	Why didn't that bus move?
	Only she can answer it, I guess.
	But just an absolutely unbelievable tragedy.
	In Dallas, a very interesting federal court decision A federal court jury in Texas, in Dallas, awarded an abortion doctor and his wife $8 million in a suit against a group of several anti-abortion groups.
	Dr. Norman Tompkins was his name.
	Finally left town, but sued the groups.
	And he won.
	And his wife won.
	The activists, undaunted, basically are saying, well then, so what?
	They take all we have, so what?
	That's how important this is.
	So I wonder how you feel about that.
	Do you think this will put a dent in those who would go and harass doctors that do abortions?
	Will it slow them down?
	I don't think so.
	How do you feel about that?
	California state officials today said that Ross Perot's new party, third party, has now in fact met the early and stiff requirements to qualify to be on the ballot.
	So here it comes.
	There's going to be a third party.
	Dash, dash, dash.
	CBS now says Colin Powell is consulting with potential campaign backer Ronald Lauder, a cosmetics king, With very deep pockets, the kind of money it would take to run Powell in a race.
	So, I guess I'm a pragmatist, you know me.
	I can read the handwriting on the wall and I know that Pat Buchanan has been winning a lot of straw polls and that kind of thing.
	But I'm telling you now, it will come down to Clinton, Dole, And I think Powell.
	Powell is going to run.
	Powell is, for all we don't know about him, we know a little bit about him now.
	He is pro-choice.
	We know that.
	What else do we know about Powell?
	He's a strong leader.
	We know that.
	He's brilliant.
	I think we agree on that.
	He talks about some gun control or sensible gun control laws.
	I would have to hear that defined before I would be able to make a judgment there.
	But in a number of areas, he looks to be a fiscal conservative and a social middle-of-the-roader.
	More a Republican than a Democrat, but it's getting hard to tell these days, you know.
	So if we get a Clinton-Dole-Powell race, I guess it might begin to be appropriate, because I think that's what it's going to be, to ask you which way you would be inclined to go.
	So, which way would you be inclined to go?
	I really think that's the way it's going to go.
	Congress getting ready for a historic vote on the budget, the attempt by the year 2002 on the part of the Republicans to balance the budget, and it's going to be a big fight.
	245 billion dollars in tax cuts for you and me and everybody and huge cuts to go along with it or allow for it.
	President Clinton vows he'll veto it, too radical, too extreme.
	He uses those words a lot lately.
	Bob Dole says it's the most important piece of legislation before Congress in all of his years, and that's a That's a lot of years in Congress.
	Senator Kennedy says, it is taking from the needy to give to the greedy.
	Of course, Senator Kennedy would say that.
	Interesting Reuters news story.
	We're talking about Reuters versus AP.
	And there is an interesting Reuters news story that somebody sent me on internet.
	Regarding former President Jimmy Carter, another story that basically got buried, but I want you to hear it.
	He said yesterday that, listen to this, the federal and state anti-poverty programs of the last 30 years have proven to be an, a quote now, abject and almost unanimous, end quote, failure.
	As if taking a page out of a Republican Party hymn book On socio-economic issues, the 71-year-old elder statesman gave his endorsement to urban development programs that work in cooperation with private industry.
	He said, quote, I would say of the great society programs of the Johnson years, all of the federal programs that have concentrated on low-income areas, what I tried to do, What's been done by other leaders coming after me, in general, the failures have been abject and almost unanimous.
	Now that is one strong statement from Jimmy Carter.
	And one big turnaround, and boy, I'll tell you what, it sure is another, yet another, very under-reported story.
	Alright, in a moment, open lines.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from October 25th, 1995.
	Alright, I've got a lot more material here, but I've already given you enough to sink a ship.
	So, what I'm going to do is just open the lines now, and we'll do open line talk radio.
	It's what we do here.
	Occasionally, it gets very, very serious, and this was one of those occasions.
	Tomorrow morning, I've got something unusual I've got to do.
	I usually don't do interviews.
	WJR in Detroit, as you know Detroit, comes online with the network on Monday.
	Monday night.
	Halloween.
	Boy, are they for a surprise.
	Anyway, they're going to call me in the morning.
	You know, they've got a morning show.
	Everybody's got a morning show.
	And they're going to ask me about my program.
	They're going to ask me about COAST and what it is.
	And I really hate these kind of pre-interviews because I don't have the slightest idea how to say what this is, except to say it's always different.
	You know, it's different every single night.
	It just is.
	And I don't have the words to do these kinds of promos, because I never know what it's going to be.
	And that's about all I can say.
	And I bet that's all I'll be able to say tomorrow morning.
	Well Art, tell us about your show.
	Huh, ha ha ha ha.
	How do I tell them about what we do here?
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Good morning, this is Rittmeister Gerhard in the Bay Area.
	Yes, sir, KSFO.
	Yes, sir, KSFO, KSRO, and boy, a whole bunch of others out here.
	You know, this is getting really, really interesting, and it's really funny to hear how people like Charlie squirm and twist and try to stay out of the way of the wind, even though they're up on the roof.
	You know, we talked last night about how we could grow a brain for him, like that mouse was growing an ear for somebody.
	Yeah.
	I think we would need something larger than a mouse, like maybe a nice big fat rat or a possum, perhaps.
	But there's a little Betsy crawling on my back here.
	Do you hear a little meh?
	Every time I get on the phone, this cat really wants to get close with me for some reason.
	You know why, don't you?
	No, why?
	The phone cord.
	They like phone cords.
	You watch, she will rub up against the phone cord because it's curled, and it's cool.
	But as soon as I put the phone down, it's like nothing's happening anymore.
	Well, it's only when a human is attached to it that it becomes important.
	But it's funny.
	I know.
	You know, it's funny that when Clinton sent these troops to invade Haiti, Which we never should have gotten into.
	Instead of letting this guy fight his own war, letting him free his own country, he sat in this country in a mansion in Washington, D.C.
	John Bertrand Aristide, I'm talking about, sat in a mansion in D.C.
	collecting political refugee checks in the United States while the U.S.
	Army put him back in power and did his fighting for him, this cowardly little squirt.
	Now isn't it funny how four Americans who have been killed in Haiti since this operation commenced.
	All suicides?
	Three of them.
	Three of them suicides?
	Three of them were supposed to be suicides, don't you know?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I know.
	I know.
	And look, it could be.
	I'm not saying it isn't.
	I don't have evidence about that.
	I don't have what I now have on Vince Foster on this case.
	Um, all I can say is this.
	I am not a forensic expert.
	But if you listen to, um, Chris Ruddy, the world's foremost forensic handwriting expert, and the other two, together declared this letter to be a forgery.
	Now, look here.
	At this point, with that kind of information, either one of two things is true.
	Either we are an America faced with undeniable, strong evidence that should be pursued, we are an America that will pursue the truth, or we have become an America that will no longer pursue the truth, no longer gives a damn.
	There's sometimes, even on radio, and you wish you could use a stronger word, but you know you shouldn't and can't.
	Or even if you can at this time in the morning, you shouldn't.
	I don't know which America we are, but I do know a bombshell piece of news when I hear it, and what Chris Ruddy just put on the air is bombshell.
	If we ignore it, then we are the second America.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Going once, going twice, gone.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello, Art.
	This is Jeff from California.
	How are you doing?
	I tried twice.
	I'm doing fine, thank you.
	I tried twice to call the Associated Press number.
	Well, actually, I tried more than that, but I got through twice.
	Oh, you did?
	Yeah, and what happens is it just keeps ringing and ringing and ringing, and then an operator comes on the answer and says, the party you have dialed is not answering.
	And so I checked the number, and I called it again.
	And it did the same thing.
	It is, it is indeed an accurate number.
	Now, before I gave it out, At whatever time it was, in the break, I called it and I made sure it was the right number.
	I said, is this the Maine Associated Washington, D.C.
	Associated Press Office?
	And they said, yes, it is.
	Well, I think they've realized something's cooking because it took me about 20 phone calls before I got through the first time.
	And I don't know how many the second time.
	They've probably rigged the phones up.
	So, people might want to give it a rest for a little while and then try back a little later.
	Yeah, keep trying.
	Oh, by all means.
	And then call during the day as well.
	Let me just ask you to summarize how you felt about what you heard from Ruddy.
	Well, ever since I heard about the gun that was put together, the old Peacemaker, I don't know, I've had a funny feeling about it.
	You know, a parts gun, if you were going to commit suicide, wouldn't you want to at least use something that you knew was going to do the job?
	Yeah.
	I mean, I hear the gun was really pretty shoddy.
	But I mean, this is a bombshell.
	Oh, without doubt.
	If this supposed suicide note or note, either way you look at it, you want to call it a suicide note or not, if it's a forgery, and the best say it is, then the whole thing is going to come apart.
	Oh, I would have to agree with you.
	In fact, I would say this is probably No, I wouldn't even call it an anti-Clinton story.
	It's really the most incriminating thing to the White House that I've ever heard come about.
	Look, I want everybody to know my attitude.
	I am not fond of this president.
	But I've heard you praise him on the air.
	I have, on occasion.
	I've heard you.
	But, dammit, look here.
	We're talking about something more serious, and I'd be doing the same thing if this was George Bush.
	Or even Ronald Reagan.
	I don't give a damn who's in office.
	This is past politics.
	We're talking about crime.
	Yeah, this is worse politics than I think we've ever had in this country.
	And if they prove him really to be involved in Vince Foster's death, it will really be a black eye to the trust we have in that office.
	Well, it's got a black eye already.
	It'll be a blacker eye.
	Yeah.
	And, you know, for the sake of our country, I tell you, the people and the government are moving away from each other about as fast as the militias and the government are moving toward each other.
	And if we don't start telling the truth and pursuing the truth, as a nation, we're... that's it, baby.
	Yeah, we've got to come out and say, If, you know, the press is well, it's going to have to say, well, hey, we might not like it, but this is how it is.
	Let's report it.
	That's going to have to happen.
	There was a day in America, sir, when that's the way the press was.
	Well, maybe someday it will be again, but right now I don't think it is anymore.
	By the way, Art?
	Yes, sir?
	Things that I'm calling from California?
	Yes.
	Let's say a prayer doesn't fall into the ocean.
	I'm only 29.
	I'd like to live to be at least as old as you are.
	Well, I'd like to be older than I am now.
	Yeah, that would be nice.
	You know, there is some indication that should California go, why Southern Nevada might go in with it.
	So, you know, I could be down there with you.
	Well, hopefully, if the first part of California goes, I'll be passing you on the freeway to New Mexico.
	You know what bothered me more than anything else?
	What?
	The letter I got yesterday saying that Gordon Michael Scallion is not selling anything more than one year additions to Earth Change's report.
	Well... Or did you not hear that?
	I didn't hear that.
	I'm a regular listener to your show.
	Then hear it now.
	According to Gordon Michael Scallion, he feels it would be dishonest to sell multiple year subscriptions.
	Perhaps.
	Well, in other words, his money is where his mouth is.
	And you can take that for what it's worth.
	Thank you, my friend.
	We've got to take a break.
	Thank you, Art.
	Have a good one.
	Take care.
	Serious days in America.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from October 25th, 1995.
	This is a video of a man playing the guitar.
	I'm going to play a little bit of that.
	Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from October 25, 1995.
	Well, a lot of faxes coming in, a lot of them on the Ruddy matter.
	And, um, this is just typical, I suppose.
	Mr. Bell, Mr. Ruddy's only chance of surviving is to slowly release information, which may involve other officials.
	And so on and so on.
	And people are killed for a lot less, he says.
	You had better watch your back as well, given the reported scenario.
	Be well and take care.
	Thank you.
	Milton, Seattle.
	Typical.
	Well, yeah, you know, I've thought about it.
	And so what?
	It's not exactly a cavalier attitude.
	I mean, I have thought about it.
	Believe me.
	uh... if what seems to be true is true then obviously powers that would do what they are alleged to have done or now seemingly have done because where does a forgery lead you to one of two very destructive paths for somebody very powerful and there's been a lot of pressure and there's been a lot of manipulation and I'm no fool I know what could happen But, uh, if I don't do it, then who is going to?
	If Chris Ruddy doesn't do it, then who is going to?
	If the Associated Press doesn't do it, as they should, then who is going to?
	If 60 Minutes doesn't do it as they should, then who is going to?
	He should.
	And, um, there are, um, far less noble things to die for, if that is what it comes to.
	Than exposing the truth, or chasing the truth.
	So, there you are.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	You know, it's interesting the way the press is covering this thing with the Vance Foster deal.
	When I was in the service during the breaking of the Watergate story.
	I was overseas in Germany and I was reading European newspapers to get more information than I was getting out of the magazines that I was subscribing to.
	There are similarities in the way the Washington Post had to doggedly pursue under criticism the story.
	Now that is what is happening here.
	Now how long has the press been in this condition?
	I don't know.
	Is it laziness?
	I don't know.
	Back in those days, I think, you know, nobody wanted to report on what Kennedy was doing, because it was the zeitgeist, the spirit of the times in those days was that we leave the president alone, the dirty things about the president alone, going all the way back to... Not quite true.
	We leave the womanizing, or the boozing, or the personal things out, but not this kind of thing.
	The scrutiny to which a public official has been held has gotten more and more, you know, we kept FDR's wheelchair out of, many people didn't even know he was in a wheelchair.
	And nowadays, you know, we know what kind of underwear our president wears, like we're supposed to care.
	Yeah, like we're supposed to care.
	But it was interesting, I used to have to give an update to my friends back in the States about what was going on with the Watergate investigation.
	Not because I got it out of the London paper and I got it out of the English printed German newspaper.
	I don't know what else you do with this.
	Look, you don't ignore it.
	That's all.
	You don't ignore it.
	I guess maybe, according to a lot of the reports I'm getting, the Associated Press may have switched off their phones or they may be so overloaded that, you know, who knows?
	I hope it's true.
	Yeah, this whole thing just stinks pretty badly.
	It has for the whole time.
	uh... have had quite an air to a quite there's too many unanswered thanks note
	who popped into it for instance uh... there's just a guy gets the age of unanswered
	questions like who was it that popped up back up to those wall that'll always be the
	unanswered question
	and who was it that uh... late that foster out with no blood you know it's
	almost tiresome sir and nobody wants to see another presidency
	falter and fail you know as nixon did
	Nobody wants that for America.
	Nobody in their right mind could want that.
	And I know this is going to be seen as Art Bell or Chris Ruddy or both, you know, going after Clinton with an agenda.
	But dammit, that is not what this is about.
	No.
	It's not about that at all.
	I understand it's not about that at all.
	Pleasant and as distasteful as it is, if it is something that needs to be dealt with, it is something that needs to be dealt with.
	Well, Americans have got to sit down and have a conversation, I think, after something like this with themselves and say, are we still Americans really?
	Um, do we, are we still the country we once were?
	Do we still pursue the truth or do we not care anymore?
	Yeah.
	And I guess we'll find out by finding out how many people call up the Associated Press at area code 202-776-9400 and demand they give this the attention, the attention it deserves.
	That's all.
	That's all anybody's asking right now.
	You're doing a good job, Art.
	Thanks for the call.
	In other words... You're American.
	Thank you.
	You've got forensic experts, world-class Stating unequivocally that this is a forgery.
	The note was a forgery.
	Now your mind does not have to do a lot of work to see where it would lead from there.
	And it's not a good place.
	I said it a minute ago, nobody in their right mind wants to see another presidency fail.
	And I'm not even saying that would occur.
	But you could imagine it would be close, or there.
	It's a horrible trauma.
	I lived through Watergate.
	I remember it.
	I was politically aware during Watergate.
	It was awful.
	Actually, it was the breaking of the virginity of the American people.
	Our innocence was lost.
	A piece at a terrible, wrenching piece at a time.
	As that whole thing began to unravel, it was the beginning of the end of the way America was.
	Nobody wants to see that happen again.
	But the alternative is absolutely horrendous!
	The alternative is an America where it may be possible for the government to manipulate the media, where it may be possible for the government to commit crimes, Or persons within the government to actually commit crimes, and with their power and influence, get away with it!
	007 time!
	So, Americans really have to make a decision themselves, and this is one of those times, folks.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air, hello.
	Hello!
	Goodbye.
	Wild Card Line, you are on the air, good morning.
	Yeah, Charlie, liberal in California.
	Did you listen to that, Charlie?
	Yeah, well... Yes or no?
	Huh?
	Did you listen to the interview?
	Ah, parts of it.
	It's a bunch of crap.
	Oh, it is.
	A group of international forensic experts saying it's a forged letter is a bunch of crap.
	Wait, let me tell you something.
	Yeah, you tell me something.
	You guys have been trying to get Clinton for so long that you're in this daydream right now.
	I think all you extremists are basically suffering from mass mental illness.
	I mean, first of all, Bill Clinton had nothing to do with killing his childhood friend.
	Anybody who believes that is A, incredibly stupid.
	That is not what anybody has said.
	Well, I mean, I know you guys aren't very good at reading.
	Dammit, Charlie, stop for a minute.
	Just play like you're an intellectual for a second.
	And talk to me about ignoring, for political purposes, which you are obviously prepared to do, The report of a group of international forensic experts in handwriting who declare this not a forgery.
	Are you telling me, Charlie?
	No, let me tell you something, buddy.
	Are you saying this should not be followed up on?
	I'm telling you, you guys can follow up on it as much as you want, if that makes you happy.
	But you can find experts, as many experts as you want.
	I can go out right now, if I had Enough money on me.
	I could go out right now and find 20 experts that say these guys are out of their mind.
	This is definitely his hand.
	Obviously you weren't listening to the O.J.
	trial.
	Forget the O.J.
	trial.
	If you were, you'd know that people can pay.
	You can either pay for experts But experts are either bought or people will come out and they'll say things just to get attention for themselves.
	Especially psychological experts.
	Boy, are you reaching.
	Boy, are you reaching.
	Experts come basically a dime a dozen.
	Yeah, right.
	Again, you guys have this big type dream that you're going to get Bill Clinton.
	Actually, that's the only way you guys can beat him.
	You really do think that's You know what this is, don't you?
	Well, you guys can't out-campaign him, and you know the only way that you can win the election... Well, now you've got Colin Powell, who's basically a moderate Democrat, if you ask me.
	But you guys can't beat Bill Clinton.
	By the way, since obviously you and I are going nowhere but against the wall on this one, let me ask you that question.
	Given the probability of a Dole-Clinton-Powell race, How would you vote?
	Well, I told you before, I'd have a very difficult... I couldn't vote against Bill Clinton.
	But I would have a very, very difficult time opposing Colin Powell.
	Simply because of his race, I'd have a very difficult time opposing him.
	You know, that's incredible.
	Alright, thank you.
	I will end it right there.
	I would have a difficult... Forget the issues, right?
	Forget the man?
	Forget the character?
	Forget everything else?
	What did he just say, Mr. Liberal Charlie?
	He said, I would have a hard time ignoring or not voting for Colin Powell because of his race.
	If that isn't the most racist damn thing I've ever heard in my whole life, I would have a hard time ignoring him because of his race.
	Not one word about his politics But just because of the color of his skin, oh my God, is
	that ever racist.
	Charles, Charles.
	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM.
	Nobody wants terrorism, obviously.
	But I don't know who to believe anymore.
	Because, you know, if something happens, you would think, oh my gosh, this is real terrorism.
	But then on the other hand, you say, this is just their way of saying we need to implement more
	of these controls.
	Not everything is a conspiracy.
	The problem is, you have to look at everything as if it's a conspiracy.
	Because nowadays, you just don't know.
	You are listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from October 25th, 1995.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art?
	Yes.
	This is Diane from California.
	Hello, Diane.
	Well, I think like everybody that heard the show tonight, I'm horrified.
	Yeah.
	It seems to me, and you know you mentioned Watergate at the beginning of The Grafton Corruption, but I think it goes back to Chappaquiddick.
	Money and power seem to be able to buy a man out of any, or a woman, out of any kind of horrific act they want to perform.
	I heard another one coming back from my second home in Oregon today.
	I was driving back to California.
	And I never listened to Tom like it, but it came on and it was an interesting topic.
	Mm-hmm.
	And it was a young man who had flown down to L.A.
	to picket the new movie Powder that was put out by Disney Studios.
	Yes, uh-huh.
	Did you hear about that?
	No.
	The direct... Call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
	And he's making a Disney movie.
	Oh.
	and he's making a Disney movie.
	Oh.
	Well, I'm sure then, uh, that organization being very sensitive to that sort of
	thing, um, there will be repercussions.
	That was very interesting.
	Let me confirm that story and I'll get it out, alright?
	Yes.
	It's a very interesting story because Disney's stance was... Well, I well know what their stance would be, ma'am.
	Thank you.
	Let me please investigate that story before I air it.
	uh... because that is a very uh... very very serious charge and i'm not doubting your word uh... but should you be wrong about something like that uh... there would be very serious uh... legal repercussions so let me find out about that uh... but uh... even if true uh... it is it is certainly an isolated incident uh...
	Not significant compared to what Chris Ruddy seems to have come up with here.
	You know, Charlie's reaction, of course, I guess, you know, I guess it's going to be typical of the liberals.
	And I guess there is going to be no way, no escape from the accusation that I am, and Chris Ruddy is, simply going after this president.
	And maybe it is that the midget liberal mind, the myopic mind of the average liberal like Charlie, cannot react in any other way, even to serious, not mid-level, but high-level forensic expertise that absolutely demands an explanation, demands an explanation, and they can talk it away by saying that it's Okay.
	uh... conservative not all rhetoric it isn't even close charles
	and it really reveals are great deal about you as a person that you would
	approach it that way i am quite surprised quite
	surprised first-time caller line you're on the air
	uh... are hello
	i can barely hear you do you got to get into the phone and shout out us
	okay i mean you can't get there
	in that last night someone called with a better
	hail bob hillbob comet yes
	Right, and they said a piece fell off?
	It did, yes.
	Uh, I don't think you mentioned it last night, but you did, uh... No, I did.
	I've mentioned it on several successive nights.
	Right, but, uh, you had asked Will we get a warning?
	I did?
	Well, well, I mean, in sort of a general way, I have.
	Yeah, sure.
	If a comet were to hit Earth, would we know about it?
	Yeah.
	Well, uh, on, uh, April 23rd, on your program, Ted Flynn was on.
	Yes.
	And his, uh, topic was Catholic prophecy?
	Yes, correct.
	And he said, uh, before the end, The warning would be great acts of mercy and a white cross would appear in the sky.
	That much I wrote down.
	Um, well, all right.
	Thank you.
	It may be, ma'am.
	It may be.
	And, uh, there was, it's interesting you should mention that because of course I'm assuming you heard the facts I read last night about the piece that broke off, which by the way is not in the shape of a cross or anything like it right now there is a spiral um... that has been noted by recent Hubble photographs a very strange spiral shape to the debris there is a piece that is broken off that is not thirty percent of the comet uh... somebody worried it is a piece that simply is reflecting
	Probably because of the amount of material burning off.
	You know, you take the dirty snowball, if that's what it is, and you break off a piece and you've got fresh snow.
	And so then that begins to get bright.
	The question, the good question is, why is it bright at all right now?
	In other words, it's out beyond the orbit of Jupiter, and whether you're talking about the nucleus of the comet itself or a piece that breaks off, there should not be enough energy from the Sun To be melting and scattering debris as we are now seeing.
	That part of it does not make sense.
	And again, we will question Richard Hoagland about that when he's here Friday night, Saturday morning.
	I don't want you to miss that program.
	Friday night, Saturday morning.
	He's got a lot to say.
	Not so much about the comment, but we will again ask about that because there must be energy to create the burn-off That creates the reflected light that we see.
	And where is that energy coming from?
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Good morning, Art.
	This is Tim Cullen from Pekin.
	The lady who just called not too long ago, about the guy who produced or directed Powder, that's a true story.
	I've got a copy of the story right here by an Associated Press writer.
	Uh-huh.
	It's in a newspaper and it shows the young man picketing in front of the theater.
	Would you do me a big favor?
	Yeah.
	Would you fax that to me?
	I'm not able to because I'm... Alright, then fine.
	Let me just ask that somebody fax it to me and I guarantee they will.
	And as soon as they do, we'll talk about it.
	Okay.
	How's that?
	Sounds good to me.
	Alright, so somebody out there with a fax machine, God knows we've sold enough of them, faxed me that article and I'm glad to cover it.
	I just want to be very careful, very cautious, I'm sure it's totally on the up and up, but the allegation in law is a very serious allegation and I want to be careful and have my ducks in a row before I open my big mouth.
	Having said that, we will be back in some markets in a moment.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from October 25th, 1995.
	Music.
	Wow.
	Wow.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from October 25th, 1995.
	Good morning.
	The unbelievable consistently becoming believable.
	I got the thing on Farrakhan here for you in a minute.
	Unbelievable.
	But believable.
	We live in such a day and age.
	It is fun being alive, isn't it?
	It'd be awful to be gone tomorrow and not know the next chapter, wouldn't it?
	Gosh!
	Somewhere in time, with Art Bell, continues Curtis Times.
	Diane confirms that for me, listening to KBC down there.
	Thank you.
	Thought it might be the L.A.
	The article on powder I read was indeed the LA Times.
	Now, on to Farrakhan.
	This is an ISCNI item, but it's been elsewhere, and it quotes the Washington Post on September 17th, As saying that Minister Louis Farrakhan, leader of the Million Man March in Washington, D.C., told a stunned crowd at a Washington Baptist Church that the march was inspired by an extraterrestrial vision he had ten years ago.
	A UFO, he said, swept him off to a spaceship where the late Elijah Muhammad told him that President Ronald Reagan was plotting a war Lewis Farrakhan was then beamed back to Earth.
	He said, quote, I really don't care if you think I'm a nut, end quote.
	He told the church without elaborating on how his vision was connected to the march.
	Wow.
	Well, maybe I've been pursuing Lewis Farrakhan as a guest in the wrong way, and maybe he would respond to an invitation to Dreamland.
	What do you think?
	Art, the Vince Foster situation, and I think this is good advice for everybody.
	He says, if the truth shall set us free, then a lie, whether blatant or a sin of omission, shall keep us bound, prisoners of those who would have us in darkness and ignorance so they can continue to control.
	The Vince Foster scandal could very well be The tip of an iceberg, when further investigated, could reveal to the American people that our government is built on a mountain of lies.
	When given the truth, history has demonstrated that people will rise up, even in the face of the greatest adversity and danger, to preserve the human spirit.
	Republican or Democrat, conservative or liberal, female or male, young or old, we deserve to be told The truth.
	Most sincerely is your program appreciated by this one signed Isadora.
	There is a name for you in San Diego.
	Well Isadora, that is exactly the way I feel about it.
	I'm not afraid of the truth.
	I'm just not afraid of it and I'm not afraid of where it leads.
	And you may or may not have noticed this about me yet.
	But I do not respond to individual items presented to me ideologically.
	Just don't.
	I respond to them, I hope, directly and pragmatically, and examine each one for its worth.
	I don't, in other words, I don't.
	I do have, I am basically a fairly moderate conservative.
	But I'm not a reactionary.
	I look at each thing as it comes along, and I'm not afraid of the truth.
	I'm just not.
	And if it ever gets to the point where I am, then I need to walk away from this job, and I'm not going to do that.
	Until it gets, and hopefully it never does.
	I mean, if I had to come on here, and in effect, serve my masters, you know, whoever they might be, I couldn't do it.
	Leave it at that.
	I'll just leave it at that.
	I couldn't do it and wouldn't do it.
	What this job is all about, at least not for me.
	Okay?
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Yeah, you are.
	This black job you had on, I saw him on 60 Minutes.
	You're talking about Chris Ruddy?
	I debunked him.
	Everybody's got a conspiracy out there, right?
	I mean, you've got to admit, it's pretty funny.
	I saw the piece, yes, and they not only debunked him, sir, but they left the better part of him on the cutting room floor.
	They took words out of his sentences.
	Did you know that?
	Oh, come on.
	Mike Wallace slapped him around.
	What, are you kidding me?
	He comes on your show, he's like an Art Bell groupie all of a sudden or something.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	So you think this panel of forensic experts, best in the world in handwriting, their analysis saying it's a forgery is meaningless?
	I think for the OJ trial, we know how much these forensic people know about anything.
	I mean, I'll tell you.
	I'll tell you that right now.
	Is that right?
	You're not aware of how much of a science handwriting analysis is?
	Also, Vince Foster, who killed him?
	Clinton killed him?
	Harvey Oswald shot him, I suppose.
	Look, wouldn't you say, obviously you're reacting very much the way Charlie did.
	Wouldn't you say this is evidence that is so strong that it demands that the press, the media, and investigative agencies pursue it?
	You really would tell me it doesn't demand that?
	Well, I mean, it should be on the news.
	I agree with you on that.
	But, I mean, you know, all these cover-ups and things, I mean, with UFOs and things too.
	I mean, why would the government want to hide UFOs from us?
	If they found a flying saucer, why not tell us?
	I mean, your show is based on conspiracy all the time.
	I mean, you know, it makes me nervous.
	No, it's not.
	I mean, you're telling me there's going to be a war at the border?
	I didn't tell you that.
	Between the militiamen?
	I don't know what's going on here.
	I told you that Dean Compton had a plan to send 250,000 militiamen down the border.
	Yes, that is true.
	But what happened with that?
	If we're lucky, not much.
	Well, I mean, this was big news a couple weeks ago.
	You're telling me about a border war?
	Well, hopefully we managed to quiet that one down.
	I hope to hell that's true.
	I brought a Well, okay.
	Well, alright.
	Well, I appreciate talking to you.
	Maybe, you know, you turned me around a little bit there.
	I don't know.
	You know, it kind of makes me nervous, Tom.
	will not do it so we won't have trouble. Well okay, well alright, well I appreciate talking to you.
	Maybe I, you know, you turn me around a little bit there. I don't know, you know, it kind of
	makes me nervous, Tom. Kind of tire. Well it ought to. We live in strange times. I've never said
	there's little green guys.
	I've never met one.
	I've seen a UFO.
	Is it possible the government would know and wouldn't tell us?
	Of course it's possible.
	Of course it's possible.
	Let's see now.
	How long did the government keep their secret about the plutonium they fed, in some cases, to children?
	How long was that?
	Our government?
	Could they keep that quiet for all those years?
	Not only yes, but hell yes, they did!
	They did!
	We didn't find out until Hazel O'Leary walked out, presumably without permission from on high, and told everybody.
	So, could it be they would keep a secret?
	Well, of course it could be!
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Dr. Democrat.
	Well, hello.
	Well, good morning, Art.
	Good morning.
	Hey, as far as this Foster forgery story?
	Yes.
	It's a non-story.
	I tell ya, if the FBI of this country comes out and agrees with those findings, then it would be a story.
	But keep in mind, the FBI have the best experts, handwriting experts, in the world.
	Well, bear in mind, Doc, that the FBI is presently about to be examined by an international panel because of allegations regarding evidence that it may have slanted, allegedly, or even tampered with, Doc.
	In other words, the United States is losing its sovereignty.
	Well, you can look at this as you will.
	Now, I'll do the same thing I did.
	I'm going to give you the same opportunity that I gave Charlie.
	And that is an opportunity to say, honestly, Doc, can you say that the world's foremost forensic handwriting expert and two others just a notch below him coming out and saying, absolutely, this is a forgery, does not deserve headlines and investigation?
	Well, I'm all for looking into it, but I'll tell you this.
	Uh, handwriting analogy is not a perfect science.
	And if you line up ten experts, you might get five and five, six and four, seven and three.
	Uh, people will disagree on this.
	Yeah, but in this case, see, they got three and three.
	And the other thing is, Doc, they weren't paid for it.
	Well, who cares?
	Uh, you guys are drawing conclusions.
	I mean, uh, you guys, uh, every time you get a chance for a conspiracy theory or something, uh, you wanna, you know... Doc, this is not a conspiracy theory.
	Well, it'd have to be Clinton with the FBI.
	The FBI is protecting Clinton because they've looked at this handwriting, this foster letter, and they say it's legitimate.
	So, I mean, like I say, until if the FBI comes out or some other American intelligence agency comes out and says this is forgery, then I would say Clinton is finished.
	But otherwise, until then, it's just a, you know, gossip.
	No, no, doc, doc, doc, doc.
	It is not gossip.
	Well, you know, I don't trust these foreigners anyways.
	I mean, they're all in it for a big buck.
	As far as this Rudy guy... As far as who?
	Uh, what's his name, Rudy?
	Chris Rudy, the guest you had?
	Chris Ruddy.
	Uh, Ruddy, okay.
	He was totally discredited on 60 Minutes.
	So this guy has absolutely... He's just a young punk trying to make money, that's all.
	He thinks he's going to be another Bob Woodward.
	He was totally discredited on 60 Minutes.
	You know what I thought?
	I thought 60 Minutes was discredited.
	When you start pulling things out of the middle of somebody's sentence in the edit room, don't you think there's a few ethical problems with that, Doc?
	Hey, Mike Wallace has more credibility than anybody.
	Mike Wallace has been doing this since the beginning of 60 Minutes.
	Haven't you seen 60 Minutes change over the years, Doc?
	Uh, not really.
	Not really.
	Hey, but anyhow, do I have time for the deficit?
	I don't know.
	I don't know how you can top what you've done, but go ahead, let me hear your deficit speech.
	Okay, when Clinton took office, the deficit was $300 billion.
	Yeah.
	It came out yesterday as $160.
	Uh-huh.
	So he has cut $140 billion in three years.
	He raised taxes.
	Even he admitted, too much.
	Yeah, on the rich.
	Because the rich were getting away with murder under Bush and Reagan.
	Well, wait a minute.
	No, no.
	He told the rich just the other day that he hurt them needlessly.
	He said, I raised your taxes too much.
	Well, he wants their votes.
	He has a campaign in America now.
	I wish you would... If you're so much fun, Doc, you might win once in a while.
	All right.
	Thanks for the call.
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	It's easier talking about flying saucers.
	How can you defend the absolutely indefensible and yet bravely Doc comes forward and tries?
	Absolutely incredible.
	Just absolutely incredible.
	These people are incredible.
	They deserve awards.
	Some sort of award should be given to talk show callers like Doc.
	Unbelievable.
	First time caller, Lyne, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Can you help me?
	Well, no thank you.
	Wildcard, Lyne, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Oh, this is Kiwi in Honolulu, Hawaii.
	Well, hello, Kiwi.
	Um, Doc Democrat, he's just, he's hilarious sometimes, I'll tell ya.
	I mean, this was, this was a reach beyond the pale.
	Well, on his taxes thing and how Clinton's reduced the deficit, albeit he may have reduced the deficit, but like you stated, he did raise taxes, and the way he's financing the deficit right now is through short-term bonds, and that's gonna change here in the next couple years.
	Oh, well, yes, that will change very quickly.
	There's going to be, you're quite correct, there's going to be a Well, I wouldn't.
	have a response come up for renewal absent refinancing dot interest rates
	are considerably higher than they were back when those bonds were originally done that's right
	that that's just a little bit things gonna change anyway so that the thing uh... on uh... mark the atheist
	uh... i wouldn't call myself an atheist but i i definitely say the whole
	uh... bible thing is it's written is a load
	well i wouldn't Why would you say that?
	I'm just curious.
	Well, because... I might question the literal belief in it.
	In every word being absolutely infallible, I'm not there.
	But I'm also not to the place where you are saying it's a load.
	I mean, how can you say that?
	Well, I believe that there's a creator of some kind, but I don't believe that what's written in the Bible is what's true.
	And I would base that on If God, way back when, when God delivered the Bible or the words that we were supposed to live by upon us, why would He only deliver it to one people to be able to give it throughout humanity?
	I don't know.
	If God were all-knowing, He'd know that humans were corrupt and He'd know that humans would use this against other people for their own good.
	So, God, we're all knowing in that case.
	Look, sir.
	Sir?
	Yeah?
	Let's try this out on you, okay?
	Just to challenge your little theory here.
	If God came down, George Burns-like or otherwise, tomorrow, or let's say even a God that was more impressive than George Burns, really looked God-like, alright?
	Went on the air with Dan Rather and gave his message to the world tomorrow night.
	Okay.
	Uh-huh.
	And the American people were appalled After Dan Rather's interview with God, what do you figure the poll would turn out?
	Was it God?
	Wasn't it God?
	Is it real?
	Is it not real?
	Probably about 50-50, something like that.
	According to everything I've read about the Bible, and according to what you've given us as far as information about The different things from Richard Hoagland and such things like that.
	Yes.
	I just find it very, very difficult to believe that if God were delivering a message, whether it be to Dan Rather or Holders or whoever it may be, that he wouldn't deliver it unto, like, all the people.
	Because even Catholics or Christians say that you need to be saved, correct?
	Look, let's have some fun with this.
	Let's say you were God.
	Would you go to Tom Brokaw, Dan Rather, Peter Jennings or Wolf Blitzer?
	Or, wait a minute, I'll give you one more.
	That's all the same side.
	Bobby Batista.
	Well... Pick one.
	You're a god.
	You've got to make a choice here.
	I think I'd go to Lou Dobbs.
	All right.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	Here's another thing to consider.
	If you're a god, you'd have to figure out who to go to.
	I mean, if you went to Dan Rather, The conservatives would deny it.
	They'd be in denial.
	They'd say, see, look at this liberal tripe.
	How can anybody believe that's really God?
	But if God went to William Buckley, imagine what Dan Rather and company would say.
	And all the liberals.
	They'd be shocked.
	They'd be in total denial.
	Well, they're in denial usually anyway.
	But they'd really be in denial.
	So, you know, I don't know who God would pick.
	It'd be too hard a choice.
	I mean, he couldn't even go to PBS.
	Back to the phones.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello?
	Hello.
	Is this Art Bell?
	Yes.
	Yes, this is Elwood from KTA, country up in Spokane.
	Spokane, okay.
	Get close to your phone and yell at us.
	Okay, is that better?
	Ah, yes sir.
	Okay.
	Yeah, I just wanted to give a quick call here.
	We sent for your book.
	Yes, sir.
	And we've got in time for your personal signature.
	Then you will get one.
	And so we haven't received anything quite... Okay, well they're going out now.
	I'm getting faxes from people who have received the book now.
	And they're sort of radiating out from... they're being shipped out of Reno.
	And they've gone out, like books do, at book rate.
	This is a heavy book.
	This sucker's almost two pounds.
	Okay.
	So listen to me now.
	It's gone out book rate.
	And I would say the first people who got them are in Reno.
	We're beginning to hear people now in California getting them.
	So it's on the way to you.
	Bide your time.
	It'll be there soon.
	Great.
	I've got a question, Art.
	Now, your book is, of course, nonfiction.
	You're damn right it's not fiction.
	You bet.
	And you wrote it as true to everything as possible that you know of.
	Yes, sir.
	Absolutely.
	Well, what I'm getting to is that these people that call in all the time about, you know, how can you prove that, you know, there's a God that exists and so forth.
	Right.
	Well, if you take a book that was written, you know, approximately 2,000 years ago, like the Bible, Right?
	You can understand why everybody in this fund would actually question anything that's written in there, whether it's typographical errors or whatever.
	Sure.
	Look, I've got a break.
	I will hold you over.
	So, stay there, alright?
	Okay, I will do.
	Alright.
	The man makes a good point.
	And I'm not saying the Bible is infallible, because I don't necessarily believe that.
	We'll be right back with more.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	on this Somewhere in Time.
	I'm going to play a little bit of the intro.
	Anything is possible tonight, anything at all.
	Who knows?
	But then again, that's kind of the way I like it.
	For Coast Insiders, it offers the ability to download the most recent shows, so you can listen to them at your leisure.
	The new app also has listen live and streaming features, plus recaps, contacts, and upcoming show info.
	Coast Insiders with Android system 4.0 and above, or iPhone.
	Check out our new app at the Google Play or iTunes stores, or link from the Coast website.
	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM.
	Nobody wants terrorism, obviously.
	But, I don't know who to believe anymore.
	Because, you know, if something happens, you would think, oh my gosh, this is real terrorism.
	But then on the other hand, you say, this is just their way of saying we need to implement more of these controls.
	Not everything is a conspiracy.
	The problem is, you have to look at everything as if it's a conspiracy.
	Because nowadays, you just don't know.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from October 25th, 1995.
	Music.
	Thank you for waiting.
	You're back on the air again.
	Art, I appreciate your patience with me.
	I'm a first-time caller.
	I've listened to you for some time, and I'm really excited by the things you've been able to get across.
	I'm really impressed with such people as Larry Wilson and Michael Scalion, and I really am concerned, as with you and other people, with what you call the quickening.
	I'm a Bible student, I'm not a minister, I'm just a Bible student myself, and I became legally blind, and so now I have it on tape.
	But I'm watching the events unfold, and definitely, it is a quickening going on.
	Sure it is.
	And, you know, people, this thing has happened before one time before.
	You know, if the Bible is correct in the flood, you can see the people laughing at old Noah, preaching that there's going to be a flood for 120 years, and then if they can explain away animals walking in the boat, and by the way, people that think that every animal had to get on a boat, Listen, we know that animals descend down, and that they break off, and so forth.
	You don't need every single animal on a boat to kill off the animals we have today.
	But we're having the same thing over again, as history repeats itself, because usually the people aren't listening the first time it happens.
	And it frightens me, and I'm concerned, and to answer one question you had on tonight with several people, if I were to vote today, I would vote for Colin Powell.
	Yeah, I might too.
	And because, I don't know how he's going to react to, you know, the international scene as far as, I know he'd be good in a war situation, but I don't know how he's going to react to these people.
	Look, time fortunately is on our side, and I think he is going to get into the race, and then he is going to have to answer the questions.
	Then we can all sit back and make up our minds.
	Thank you.
	Uh, it's hard to force anybody into saying, uh, if I were to vote today, but it's fun.
	All right, sir.
	Thank you, uh, very much for the call.
	I really appreciate it.
	I'm going to try and end the show on a lighter note.
	I promised the audience I would replay this for the late audience.
	The KATU famous, I mean famous, uh, just one of the most remarkable television events in all of TV history.
	And I got their permission yesterday.
	I called their, uh, went through the hierarchy of Channel 2 in Portland, and they were very nice to me.
	ABC affiliate, I might add, up there.
	But first, I want to read you and show you how good a sense of humor my sponsor has.
	Now, you watch them tomorrow night, they'll be off all of a sudden.
	Dexter has a good sense of humor, though.
	Uh, you remember we were talking last night about the mouse?
	Uh, actually, That is a true story.
	You know, the human ear on the back of the mouse.
	First, I got this fact regarding the ear on the mouse story.
	I concur.
	Your first reaction to the story is, this is an abomination.
	To me, the abomination lies in the idea that I don't feel that these little lives are ours to appropriate.
	And that these kinds of experiments represent a terrible form of cross-species enslavement.
	To make things worse, in this case, it is a matter of convenience and not necessity.
	For if we can grow ears and perhaps livers, etc., on other animals, then surely this procedure could be perfected for people.
	So, that was one reaction to it.
	This was another.
	Subject absolutely fresh.
	We all know the secret to making money is timing.
	Well, Art Bell and Dexter Yard have teamed up to form an exciting new venture, Absolutely Fresh Fingers!
	We are a finger farm in western Nevada.
	All we grow are fingers.
	With Dexter's vast experience in farming and shipping fresh products and Art's vast stable of rabbits, you can now have fresh fingers delivered next day by FedEx to the surgeon of your choice.
	No other finger can compare with the freshness selection price or dexterity of ours.
	They're grown on the backs of rabbits which are fed 100% organic grains and veggies.
	The rabbits, with finger or fingers attached, will arrive in a large rectangular box.
	All your surgeon has to do is clip off the finger and sew it onto your hand and you're on your way home To a finger-lickin' good dinner of roast rabbit.
	Or, you can keep the rabbit as a pet for yourself and or your kids.
	Our absolutely fresh fingers are not only good for amputees, they also make excellent gifts for birthdays, Christmas, anniversaries, etc.
	Imagine, imagine the look on your mother's face when she opens the box and out hops a rabbit with a big thumbs up on its back.
	She'll know you really care.
	They're also great for sporting events.
	There's nothing like an absolutely fresh work, one finger to show support for your favorite team.
	And if you're mad at your boss or your spouse, you can send them one of our extra large middle... Well, you get the idea.
	So many uses and Dexter will even include a card with a handwritten message for you.
	You don't find that anymore.
	All this for $139.95.
	That's right, $139.95.
	No other finger farm can make this kind of deal.
	That's because we cut off the middleman.
	In fact, if you ever find a better deal on Fresh Fingers, let us know and we'll advertise their product instead.
	But we know you won't.
	So call 1-800-FINGERS today And your absolutely fresh fingers will be there tomorrow.
	That's 1-800-FINGERS.
	You'll be glad you did.
	I guarantee it.
	And that, ladies and gentlemen, shows that I have people out there who listen to every single word that I utter.
	It scares me now.
	Earlier in the show, we did something in the first hour the later audience might not have been able to hear.
	It's almost mythology, but it is true.
	It is a whale of a tale.
	A whale showed up on a beach in Oregon.
	I interviewed earlier the man, in the first hour of the show that will repeat, the man whose car got crushed by this incredible piece of whale flubber that came down at probably terminal velocity after the explosion and crushed his car.
	Now, to set it up, for whatever reason, the people in Oregon up there, the Highway Department, decided that a whale is, in many respects, like a road in the sense that it is big.
	So they turned the job of the disposition of this smelly whale over to the Oregon Highway Department.
	I don't know how they came up with the idea of blowing up the whale, as opposed to doing whatever else, but they did.
	My wife and I were talking, and I thought, you know, the guys probably went to a bar somewhere and kicked it around.
	What are we going to do with this big thing?
	Well, anyway, the coverage of this story was done by KATU-TV, Channel 2 in Portland, ABC.
	They are going to, I'm promoting, cross-promoting for them, they're going to broadcast the video from the audio that you're about to hear, called The Whale of a Dale, Wednesday, November 1st.
	In their newscasts at 5, 6.30 p.m.
	and 11 p.m.
	with the series airing Thursday and Friday, November 2 and 3 at 5, 6.30 and 11.
	Thank you, KTU.
	Here is the story that ran, albeit 25 years ago, ladies and gentlemen, 25 years ago in Portland, Oregon.
	Thank you, Channel 2, for permission to rebroadcast this.
	So, those of you that are about to hear this will know, it is not a myth, it is the truth.
	Here is that report.
	It had to be said, the Oregon State Highway Division not only had a whale of a problem on its hands, it had a stinking whale of a problem.
	What to do with one 45-foot, 8-ton whale, dead on arrival, on the beach near Florence?
	It had been so long since a whale had washed up in Lane County, nobody could remember how to get rid of one.
	In selecting its battle plan, the Highway Division decided the carcass couldn't be buried because it might soon be uncovered, it couldn't be cut up and then buried because nobody wanted to cut it up, and it couldn't be burned.
	So dynamite it was, some 20 cases or a half ton of it.
	The hope was that the long-dead Pacific gray quail would be almost disintegrated by the blast, and that any small pieces still around after the explosion would be taken care of by seagulls and other scavengers.
	Indeed, the seagulls had been standing nearby all day.
	As everything was being made ready, we asked George Thornton, the highway engineer in charge of the project, for his final observation.
	Well, I'm confident that it'll work.
	The only thing is, we're not sure just exactly how much explosives it'll take to disintegrate this thing so the scavengers, seagulls and crabs and whatnot can clean it up.
	Is there any chance it might be more than a one-day job?
	Uh, if there's any large chunks left, and, uh, We may have to do some other cleanup, possibly set another charge.
	The dynamite was buried primarily on the leeward side of the big mammal, so as most of the remains would be blown toward the sea.
	About 75 bystanders, most of them residents who had first found the whale to be an object of curiosity before they tired of its smell, were moved back a quarter of a mile away.
	The sand dunes there were covered with spectators and land lubber newsmen, shortly to become land blubber newsmen.
	With a blast blasted blubber beyond all believable bounds.
	Now on the screen you'd be seeing a countdown like for a shuttle launch.
	10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
	You get the idea.
	seven six five four three two one you get the idea
	Our cameras stopped rolling immediately after the blast.
	The humor of the entire situation suddenly gave way to a run for survival as huge chunks of whale blubber fell everywhere.
	Pieces of meat passed high over our heads while others were falling at our feet.
	The dunes were rapidly evacuated as spectators escaped both the falling debris and the overwhelming smell.
	A parked car over a quarter of a mile from the blast site was the target of one large chunk.
	The passenger compartment literally smashed.
	Fortunately, no human was hit as badly as the car.
	However, everyone on the scene was covered with small particles of dead whale.
	As for the success of the effort, well, the seagulls who were supposed to clean things up were nowhere in sight.
	Either scared away by the explosion or kept away by the smell.
	That didn't really matter.
	The remaining chunks were of such a size that no respectable seagull would attempt to tackle anyway.
	As darkness began to set in, the highway crews were back on the beach burying the remains, including a large piece of the carcass which never left the blast site.
	It might be concluded that should a whale ever wash ashore in Lane County again, those in charge will not only remember what to do, they'll certainly remember what not to do.
	There you are.
	We had Walt Amenhaver on early in the show and he said, he described the one particular gigantic piece of blubber in a whale, never forget, The one that flattened his car, and he's the one who bitched that it was not a good idea.
	And they wouldn't listen to him.
	Anyway, he said he was standing there, and he watched this giant piece of flubber go way up into the sky until it got small, and then it just sort of hung there, suspended way up in the sky, and then he watched it slowly begin to descend Like right out of a Roadrunner cartoon.
	And wouldn't you know, the one guy who had objected to this whole project, he had headed square forward, just like in a Roadrunner cartoon, and flattened his car.
	Absolutely unbelievable.
	Anyway, thank you Channel 2 in Portland.
	Those of you, I'm sure, who would like to see the video, which is unbelievable, to go with that, wouldn't want to miss it.
	There it is.
	The absolute truth about what a lot of people thought was only myth.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, man.
	Why are you so damn rude to some of your callers?
	Well, because some people are rude to me, so I'm rude back.
	That ain't what I heard.
	I heard you yelling at some of your callers and being rude.
	I yell at them?
	Sometimes you do.
	You know, there's callers like you that won't turn the radio off when they get on the air.
	Is that rude?
	Yeah, it is.
	Why is that?
	Well, because it's confusing and it makes the caller sound confused.
	I'm not confused.
	Are you confused?
	Turn your radio off, sir.
	Okay, I'll reach it.
	Or I will cut you off.
	That's rude.
	Really?
	You've got about three seconds.
	Two, one, zero.
	You're cut off.
	So you'll have to live with that.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Well, hi there, Bill.
	How are you?
	It's Bob Bocatello.
	How you doing, Bob?
	Looks like you're right up against the top of the hour, yeah?
	You know, it's interesting.
	Both you say you might vote for Powell.
	The liberal Democrat who identifies Powell as a Democrat says, obviously, that if he can get by racial problems he has, he'll vote for Powell.
	No, no, no, no.
	He said he would vote for Powell based on the color of his skin.
	Well, I didn't quite interpret it that way.
	But in any case, what I'm getting at is Powell is more or less being forced as a frontrunner.
	And he said he won't take second fiddle, as I understand it, or as it's reported.
	and uh... you know that the interesting thing uh...
	if clinton uh... it forced out office so we have a choice between gore and powell
	alright uh... essentially that american people are getting a couple
	more uh... to quote this fella
	uh... powell's a democrat or charlie whatever his name was so we're getting another choice between a couple liberals
	do you see it that way well i don't know yet because i don't know enough about powell
	well powell came out of new york university before he went to the point
	But that doesn't necessarily mean anything.
	Well, it does and it doesn't.
	Who gave him his appointment?
	New York University, as you know, was a hotbed of liberalism.
	I know, but then he's got a military background, so you could argue it either way.
	Well, his military background was unilateral disarming the United States while we were grinding up the Iraqis.
	Alright, sir.
	Thank you.
	You can argue it either way.
	You can argue somebody's educational background gave them a liberal bias, or I could argue that his military background would give him a very conservative bias.
	I don't think we know enough yet.
	We don't know enough yet.
	That's the bottom line.
	There's going to be lots of testing time and lots of listening time ahead.
	Now, who do we know a lot about?
	We know a lot about Bill Clinton, and we know a lot about Bob Dole.
	And I don't like the choice.
	Sorry.
	I don't like the choice.
	Now, I'm not saying I'm embracing Colin Powell, because how can I?
	I don't know enough yet.
	I just know I don't like the choice.
	And you look at the polls, you look at all the rest of it, it's going to be Dole, and it's going to be Clinton.
	Sorry.
	I don't like the choice.
	If there's another one, I'm going to investigate it.
	I may not like that one either, but I'm going to investigate it.
	You betcha.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Yeah, how's it going, Art?
	Okay.
	This is Mike from California.
	Yes, Mike.
	I like your radio show.
	I know it's an Everything Goes line, but what you've opened up is a universal cosmic radio show for the forces of good and evil out there.
	That's right.
	Let me explain myself.
	What people have seen so far in these earth changes, they're seeing actual God's power.
	Now, to get into the new world tomorrow... Or nature's power, and maybe nature's power and God's power are one.
	Yes, they are, but in order to have a new world out there, not a new world order, but a new world that's going to be free, with peace and without war, these earth changes must take place.
	The transition is occurring, but also a cleansing of the earth, and that will be the The evil forces, once again, they're going to have to learn their lesson.
	So, as God's agent as I am, I'm telling the chosen people that are out there.
	Alright, well listen, God's agent, the show is over, so you get to say goodnight America and that's it.
	On behalf of God, goodnight America.

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