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Oct. 22, 1995 - Art Bell

02:18:21

Dreamland with Art Bell - Ghosts in the Air with Martin Caidin

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	Is indeed another Sunday evening, Grimland on the air.
	Hi everybody, I'm Art Bell.
	All across America now, 153 affiliates strong.
	Adding this week, WHMP.
	Welcome, Northampton, Massachusetts.
	Glad to be on the air there.
	Northampton, Massachusetts.
	Neat.
	Also, WTMA in Charleston, South Carolina.
	They're a big station down there.
	I want to thank Lisa Cooper and everybody else who had anything to do with getting us on the air in Charleston.
	Good to be there.
	Great to be there.
	And WKBZ in Muskegon, Michigan.
	850 on the dial.
	I'll be darned.
	Muskegon, Michigan.
	Good to have you with us.
	Little thumbnail sketch of where we're going to be going.
	The, uh, well, I can't call her the world's expert on crop circles and animal mutilations anymore.
	Otherwise, I've decided that would mean it would be only Doug and Dave and Linda as experts in prop circles, I guess, huh?
	So we will not call her that anymore.
	We will call her simply an investigative journalist trying to get to the bottom of these mysteries and report the facts.
	Or maybe an Emmy Award winning TV producer and author.
	But all of that's so hard to say.
	Easier to almost put her in there with Doug and Dave.
	And, as I pointed out to her on the line here a little while ago, she has been making some rather recent suspicious trips to Europe.
	But we'll ask her about that.
	In a moment.
	And then it's to the air with Martin Caton, all the way from Florida, who has written a book called Ghosts in the Air.
	I understand he's also written concerning hauntings, true stories of hauntings of aircraft and things pilots have seen and all the rest of it.
	He's been in aviation a long time.
	Martin has written about 200 books.
	I have a lot of respect for anybody who has written more than one.
	So, we'll get to all of that in a moment.
	We all know what information is.
	It is virtually today.
	I mean, if you want to know what's going on, you've got to be plugged in and we can plug you in.
	It's called UFO News to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
	And Emmy Award winning TV producer and author, investigative journalist, Linda Howe.
	I've had enough fun with her by now, I guess.
	Linda?
	Hi, Art.
	I've never met Doug and Dave.
	Never been over there with the board and the chain, huh?
	But some of our Dreamland listeners will understand.
	I had told you that I cringe every time someone says I'm an expert in any one of these mysteries where we don't have any bottom line answers.
	That I am fundamentally a journalist trying to get to the bottom and report facts, and so I do appreciate that change.
	Sure, okay.
	Well, you wouldn't object if we wanted to come take a look in your basement for some big boards and chains?
	No, you can come look.
	Yeah, I see, alright.
	Well, listen, this week I have been getting stories about anomalous phenomena from all over the place.
	Reuters News reported October 18th that crowds of people in a small village south of Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia reported a huge object in the air and this was the quote, as big as a football field and several stories high encircled by flashing red, orange and green lights, unquote.
	The Malaysian Air Force, however, said that they have nothing in their air defense screens to indicate a UFO had violated Malaysian airspace, unquote.
	But that is almost the standard government line now about UFO sightings anywhere in the world.
	Earlier in October, on the 5th, a Buenos Aires, Argentina, video cameraman named Gerardo Ferrero It takes 15 minutes of a huge saucer-shaped object that appeared with violet, red, and green lights.
	And according to the American reporter in Hollywood, quote, the Argentine Air Force has examined the video after also finding a jelly-like substance and scorched earth marks at the San Carlos de Bariloche Airport several miles southeast of Buenos Aires.
	Earlier this week, one of our Dreamland listeners called me, literally, from the site of an animal mutilation, he thought.
	He was using his cell phone while standing next to a dead bull in Rio Dorso, New Mexico, about 45 miles east of Roswell.
	He said he listens to me on Dreamland, has gotten my books and videos, and he says, Linda, this looks exactly like the photographs.
	He said that there are sections of hide and genitals that have been removed, And we had him get in touch with the Sheriff's Office, and he collected graft samples from around the body, which biophysicist W.C.
	Levengood in Michigan will examine.
	And for those Friday who may have watched 2020, Dr. Levengood was featured in one of the segments about some of his work.
	Yes.
	And I'll follow up with him on the graft samples, not only from this mutilation, but some others that we're studying now.
	And right after the New Mexico call, I received another report from a CBS affiliate television reporter in Chico, California.
	Two mutilated cows were found in the same pasture about 900 feet apart on Monday, October 16th.
	The ranch is halfway between Alturas, California and Reno, Nevada, an area that I've had several UFO eyewitness reports from the past year that we've talked about on Dreamland.
	Sheriff Ronald Jarrell's office issued a press release to the news media this time and said, quote, The death of these animals is being considered suspicious in nature as some of these animals' body parts were missing.
	At the present, we do not have suspects and this matter will continue to be investigated.
	Unquote.
	That's a sheriff's release.
	That's rare.
	Yeah, I'm sure they love dealing with things like this.
	Yeah, I know, but they never have an answer.
	Both cows had their rectums and vagina cored out.
	The left ears were taken.
	One cow had all four teeth removed smoothly from the udder, leaving a brown residue as if burned off.
	The other cow's entire udder had been removed in a smooth, oval cut, only high teeth.
	The tongue was removed from deep within the throat of one cow, and its lower jaw flesh was completely stripped down to clean bone.
	Holy mackerel.
	One of the cows was lying in 18-inch high grass on moist soil, but there were no tracks, no signs of struggle, no downed grass anywhere around the body of that cow.
	The strangely cut cow shocked State Brand Inspector J.D.
	Temple.
	But the thing that really got me too is that the predators didn't disturb these carcasses at all.
	Totally untouched.
	And just like I brought the head down to my place here and I have a ranch and I took it out in the field there where I know coyotes run, you know?
	Right.
	And I checked that head yesterday and They hadn't even disturbed it.
	How long have you been a brand inspector?
	This is my 14th year.
	And in those 14 years?
	This is the first time I've ever seen anything like this.
	What was your reaction?
	Well, mystified.
	No blood.
	No death throes and that.
	Uh...
	When they're cut open like that or, you know, mutilated, it really makes you wonder.
	Bye.
	And that was my whole feelings as well.
	How did this take place?
	Right.
	How's it been?
	Well, did anybody discuss how the bodies could be in that condition with none of the grass trampled around them?
	Well, yeah, we all wondered about that.
	Everyone wondered how, you know.
	And everyone wondered the same thing about no blood.
	Because you have quite a lot of blood in a 1,200-1,500 pound cow.
	Now, not only have there been those mutilations in the Chico, California area, or actually between Alturas and Reno, I have received information that more than a dozen cattle have been reported to the Washington County Sheriff's Office in Missouri.
	uh... mutilated the same kind of strange bloodless excisions and the sheriff's
	office has gone so far to report to the uh... independent journal newspaper
	their quote we're not trying to scare anyone but we really don't know
	what it is and we'd certainly like to find out unquote
	uh... these are some of the most refreshing comments from sheriff's
	offices that i've seen uh... in the last decade or so From your point of view, I'm sure.
	Let's take a second, Linda.
	Help me out here.
	Uh, there have been black helicopter sightings near animal mutilations.
	To me, that has never made sense.
	To me, the government could get, you know, all the cows at once.
	No problem.
	Just order up cows and take whatever parts they want.
	They don't need to sneak into a farmer's field in the middle of the night.
	Exactly.
	So, the next most logical explanation is that it is some sort of UFO-related phenomenon.
	Now, if that's the case, if I were to press you to the wall and say, Why?
	What would you say?
	Well, I think that Bud Hopkins' work in terms of the abduction syndrome and focusing on the harvest of ovum and tissue there relates possibly to the mutilation because animals have genitals and internal sexual organ areas removed And it could very well be that Bud's hypothesis is the context in which we might think about this, that something is harvesting genetic material from our planet to be used to create other things, and when you get to that question, what and why, I don't think Bud or I or anyone could say that we really have any real idea beyond the possibility of these
	hybrid suggestions and some abductees think that biological androids are being constructed
	by another intelligence for use just like we might have robots I suppose and who knows
	what that bigger picture is but the fact is this phenomenon continues around us and I
	hope more and more people are going to pay attention.
	I think it's important, and I'm going to let the Missouri and the California Sheriff's Offices know about each other's similar incidents, because that's one of the problems.
	Isolated localities don't know what's going on in other localities.
	And I'll give phone numbers out at the end of this report, but I'd like to share one more interesting thing, because in addition to new animal mutilations, Unusual circles and ovals have been found in at least two United States cornfields this fall.
	Both formations have been about 55 feet in diameter.
	One was discovered in Bad Axe, Michigan, and another near Arlington, Iowa in August.
	And I just learned about it and talked to the farmers today, Mr. Ray Camper and his wife, and it's a very interesting story.
	All right, good.
	It wasn't a completely round circle.
	It was more, after we looked at it more, it was more shaped like an eye.
	Or a football or something like that.
	It was more oblong than what it was round.
	Mm-hmm.
	And the coin was all tipped to the inside all the way around like the spokes on a wheel.
	Right.
	Instead of being in a swirly condition or something like that, why, this was all just straight right towards the center.
	And that brown spot would kind of be the hub in the center of the wheel.
	So, the corn that's lying down, uh, is green.
	Yes.
	Well, it was at that time, yeah.
	And then, when it gets to the center, it was what color?
	Well, it was kind of brown, like it's been, well, I'd like to say scorched or something.
	It was, uh, but just the top layer of stalks were that way.
	Underneath?
	Underneath, it was green, yes, then.
	It was just like one layer of stalks.
	It looked like the corn in the center was Down first, and then as you put the coin in from the center, well then it got several layers thick right in the center then.
	Okay.
	And that coin underneath that first layer of coin was green yet then.
	But the top was brown?
	The top was brown, yeah.
	As if it had been scorched?
	Yeah.
	Now, has anyone, you or anyone else in that area, have you seen any strange, unusual thing in the sky?
	No.
	No, not really.
	There was two or three reported.
	At that time, we had kind of a meteor shower in this area here, and after they found out about this, of course, nobody remembers everything then, and they'd seen a couple red balls, they described them as, In the area, anyway.
	Red bones?
	Yeah, kind of, yeah.
	Glowing?
	Like a meteor falling or something?
	I'd say it's not a meteor.
	Yeah, but they've kind of, everybody's looked at it and ruled out it being a meteor.
	Yeah, that it's not a meteor?
	No, that's what they, that's what they ruled out, anyway.
	And what about both of you?
	Have either of you seen anything like this before?
	No.
	Not in this area, or not anywhere, no.
	And how long have you been farming corn?
	Oh, uh... Well, we just celebrated our 50th wedding anniversary, and... and, uh... About 50 years, anyway, we've been farming.
	So in 50 years, you've never seen anything like it?
	No, never even heard about one out in this particular area, anyway.
	So, as we move along, more people are having experiences with unusual phenomena that are unprecedented in their lives.
	So, it's happening everywhere and I hope our Dreamland audience will continue to get in touch with me about this because this is the way we learn.
	I just don't know what to make of it.
	We're short on time.
	Linda, go ahead and give us, if you would, contact info, numbers, etc.
	Well, first I'll start with the address for people who would like to just talk confidentially and that's Post Office Box 538.
	In Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
	That's H-U-N-T-I-N-G-D-O-N Valley, PA.
	And the zip code is 1-9-0-0-6.
	I'll have a toll-free 800 number for book and video information.
	It has a short length on it, but also for anybody in California or Uh, Ohio or Missouri or Michigan or anywhere now where anomalous phenomena may be occurring.
	You could call and leave your phone number on that 800 line.
	Uh, and I will get back to you.
	And that is 800-707-9993.
	And that is 800-707-9993.
	Again, that is 800-707-9993.
	Very good.
	And for those of you out there with faxes, I am at area code 215-491-9842.
	And I look forward to the reports, and I think, Art, that we have a growing network with our Dreamland audience when a guy will call me from his cell phone standing right next to a mutilated bull in New Mexico.
	No question about it, but I'd rather have you getting the calls than me.
	Linda, thank you very much, and we'll talk to you next week.
	Thanks, Art.
	Take care.
	Linda Howe, and always good to have her on the program, investigative journalist, Emmy award-winning TV producer.
	There you go, Linda.
	Many of you people who know about health know about pycnogenols.
	It is a strange name.
	It is an antioxidant.
	So is vitamin C. Now, vitamin C helps avoid cancer, strokes, heart attacks, increases life expectancy an average of five years.
	It's not what I say, it's what The scientists at UCLA say.
	Now, pycnogenols carry about 20 times the batting power of vitamin C when it comes to fighting free radicals.
	Little tiny nano-technological ginzu knives tumbling through your bloodstream doing damage as they go.
	That's my analogy.
	Free radicals are not good for you.
	They give you premature wrinkling, degenerative disease, circulatory disorders, you get the idea.
	Wanna fight him?
	Pycnogenols are the way health naturally is the company that sells them.
	If you would like to, uh, inquire or buy, these are, by the way, 95% pure grapeseed extract.
	The number is 1-800-856-1119.
	That's 1-800-856-1119.
	How many of you remember a time when you could take a penny to the corner grocery store and there you could buy a nice piece of candy or even a postcard?
	Well, of course, Today, the convenience stores have a bowl of pennies on the counter with a sign that usually says, take one if you need one.
	Can the dollar be far behind?
	You know, you really can't buy anything for a penny anymore.
	In fact, a dollar will only... 800-618... How long is Dreamland?
	It is three hours on a Sunday evening.
	Well, what if you can't be there?
	I've got there.
	And what it will do is to record three hours of a talk show on one side.
	That's right.
	One side, I said, of a 90-minute cassette.
	There's nothing like it.
	It's called Real Talk.
	And it's remarkable.
	AM, FM.
	It is, of course, digital.
	It's got timers.
	It will start and stop when you tell it to.
	It's got ten memory presets.
	It operates on batteries, so you can take it with you, or AC power.
	Works just fine with the, uh, select antenna.
	And as I said, it's big feature is, it'll record three hours of a talk show on one side of a 90 minute tape.
	Price, $139.95.
	Very, very hard to keep in stock.
	And we won't have them very long.
	than $39.95. Very, very hard to keep in stock. And we won't have them very long. So, you
	better, had better let your fingers do the walking in the morning at about 7.30 I would
	Call the Sea Crane Company and get Real Talk on the way.
	The magic number is 1-800-522-8863.
	1-800-522-8863.
	1-800-522-8863.
	There has never been a book quite like Ghosts of the Year.
	The telling of strange and wonderful true events.
	I said true.
	The stories related in this book don't leave any room for argument about what the people have seen and encountered.
	The author, those involved in these events, know what they have experienced is real.
	There are events witnessed in that halfway region, somewhere between heaven and earth, that defy all rational explanation.
	For years, author and pilot Martin Caden has collected these strange but true stories of aerial hauntings from pilots and astronauts.
	His conclusion is simple.
	There is something out there.
	Martin Caden is a professional pilot, a veteran of World War II.
	He has been an FAA examiner, a teacher, lecturer, researcher, and instructor in, get this, telekinetics.
	A bionics researcher and developer, the six million dollar man, remember that?
	Is based on his novel, Cyborg.
	So, the man has a lot of experience.
	Let us go, I believe, to Florida.
	And, oh, wait a minute, let's do it this way.
	I believe to Florida and say, hello, Martin Caden, are you there?
	Martin Caden, you're not there.
	Well, I've had a lot of trouble with this lately, so what we will do is simply take an additional break and get Martin back on the line.
	Somehow or another, someway, these things simply seem to occur, so we'll take care of this and we'll be right back.
	Hey, you don't have to put up with it.
	I know a lot of you do, but you don't have to.
	What am I talking about?
	Hard water.
	Hard water spots on glassware windows in your car.
	That crusty ring in your toilet bowl.
	Hard to remove soap film on shower doors.
	Frozen valves on faucets.
	Hard scale build up in your water heater costing you extra money, about $275 a year, just to heat the water.
	Well, I don't have those problems.
	I've got GMX water conditioning in my home for over a year now.
	Three small units, easy to install, no maintenance, no electricity, no salt.
	That's right, no salt, no back flushing.
	Using magnetic technology, GMX conditions the water, eliminates hard water buildup, yet allows your water to maintain its healthy minerals, making it great to drink and wonderful for plants.
	How can you go wrong?
	For $600, you can treat your entire home and the units come with an unconditional 90-day money-back guarantee and a lifetime warranty.
	You've got nothing to lose except that ugly white stuff.
	Call the folks at 1-800-406-0GMX.
	By the way, they're celebrating their second year on the Art Bell Program, so if you order now, they'll send you a copy of my new book absolutely free.
	Call 1-800-406-0GMX.
	Order today.
	That's 1-800-406-0GMX anytime, day or night.
	By the way, the first printing of my book is out, out, gone.
	History.
	And you actually cannot order it right now, so...
	GMX, I think, are the only people that have copies of it at the moment.
	All right, now, let us go, I think, to Florida.
	Had that been an airplane we were just in, we'd have been in very little pieces on the ground.
	Martin, are you there?
	I am here.
	Oh, good.
	Where are you in Florida?
	We are at the 7th tip of Cape Canaveral, which is the Air Force Station for missile launchers.
	And just above that, You've written a lot of books about all kinds of aviation, and I want to ask you a lot about that.
	certainly help us is the giant distillation of patrick air force base
	in between we've got a huge submarine fleet and a main research center
	so we've got an awful lot of these things around here this is a this is
	active day and night you've written a lot of books about all kinds of aviation
	and i want to ask you a lot about that but first
	i want to get into the realm of the book you have written out called ghosts of the air
	um... i have a very good friend of martin who works for united airlines
	And he has told me some stories about a certain commercial airliner that to this day remains haunted.
	In fact, there was a movie done about it.
	Do you know the case I speak of?
	I know the case, yes.
	What can you tell us about that?
	The thing would be to dismiss completely out of hand and immediately except for one thing.
	There are too many witnesses to the haunting events or the spirits that take place in the airplane.
	And one that can't be put aside is that a new stewardess was aboard the airplane, same kind of a 747, and she was down in the lower lobe galley.
	That's where they do the preparation of food.
	For that type of aircraft.
	Right.
	And my wife is also a premier flight attendant for American Airlines.
	So I get to a lot of these airplanes.
	Now, the girl was down in the galley alone and looked up at the mirror and saw the reflection of the dead pilot.
	Which, and she had never seen his face before, but she recognized it from photographs.
	And he looked at her and said, this aircraft or this type of aircraft will never again crash.
	Which is a pretty hard statement to make and even harder to believe because many crashes are out of our hands completely.
	But she went upstairs and refused ever to come back down again into the galley.
	Now that's what happened with this one particular airplane.
	You were told this by a friend for one reason.
	He knew you.
	If you had been a stranger or a newsman per se without knowing him, I assure you, he never would have spoken to you about this.
	Oh, and he asked me.
	I'm not going to be able to reveal his name until he retires.
	Right.
	Many of the pilots simply will not talk to newsmen because newsmen are insufferably bad in their reporting.
	I know.
	Believe me, I know.
	Well, we got that point out of the way immediately.
	So what happens when an event takes place, And the pilots know what's happened to a great deal, and some of which they don't know.
	The newspapers come out with stories that all conflict with each other, because everybody is grabbing in the dark.
	And that's why the newsmen stay away from these people.
	They don't trust them, they're incompetent, and make up their stories as they go along.
	I don't disagree, Martin.
	I've been interviewed and misquoted enough times to sink a ship.
	Besides that, Uh, it's proven, Martin, when there's a big news event and, uh, the news people, uh, have no news whatsoever, they finally will, in desperation, turn to interviewing and misquoting each other.
	Exactly.
	Unknown but reliable sources.
	That's exactly right.
	Which is actually a bad joke right down the damn line.
	Yeah, I agree with you.
	And the, uh, but this goes on, this is how Ghost in the Air was written.
	Uh, I've been flying for 54 years.
	And I began to collect these stories that were being told by different pilots whom I knew quite well.
	Some of which I didn't know that well, but I was sworn to secrecy on the stories they told me with the events and their names and what happened to them.
	And I kept my promise to them until I decided I had enough stories to do a book where everybody could be identified as to who they were so long as I had their permission.
	So I went back to all these pilots or their families who got their permission in writing.
	And then began to put the book together.
	I'm surprised they would even give you that permission now.
	They only did for one reason.
	Because I went on the hook also.
	By explaining some of the things that had happened to me in the air.
	And with or without other people around.
	Because I put my name on a line.
	I put my neck on a line.
	And they had been reading my stuff for years.
	And I've flown with many of them.
	So that, that, that decided them right there on the spot.
	That was enough to let them go ahead.
	Very good friend of mine also here in Las Vegas, John Lear, son of, uh, you know, Bill Lear, Lear, Jack Fane.
	Yep.
	Um, he was a commercial, was a commercial pilot, still is really.
	And, um, told stories of UFOs.
	And one day they took him into the office and they said, you're not serious about this, are you, John?
	And John said, well, as a matter of fact, yes, I am.
	And they said, well, then goodbye.
	Many of the detailed stories that John Lear had, he had pretty well on his own.
	And when he reported them, and turned them over to the government, he was castigated for it.
	They did a hatchet job on John Lear.
	That's right.
	Because I knew his father very well.
	Bill Lear, and I go way, way back.
	When I used to write for Air News and Air Tech magazines, and I was a war correspondent.
	And we got to know each other quite well, and so we told each other stories.
	Little by little, these things began to come out.
	One of the highlights of your current book, Ghosts of the Air, what are pilots seeing?
	What are the majority of the sightings?
	Are they seeing UFOs?
	Were they seeing entities?
	Or what do you think they're seeing?
	You just named all of them that are included, plus more.
	The point to make is that the book is not on UFOs and ghosts.
	It's ghosts in the air because we now have infrared and other film camera proof of entities that are almost transparent.
	But the book is a collection of things that have happened that seem to be impossible.
	Some involve the airplanes.
	Some involve people.
	Some involve people coming out of the mists of time.
	Some involve World War I fighters, for example.
	In the Battle of Britain, there was a group of British fighter planes, Spitfires, and Hurricanes, diving on a formation of Heinkel 111s, during the Battle of Britain.
	Suddenly, in the midst of the British fighters, a SE-5A, and several other biplane fighters of World War I, dove through the British formation, and at well over 350 miles an hour, which should have torn the wings right off those airplanes, which were fabric and wood, And these World War I fighters went right through the British formation, attacked the German bombers below them, broke up their formation, because they all scattered, and then the fighters went on down and pretty well cleaned up that enemy force.
	Now, how do we believe that this happened?
	There were about 50 British pilots, all officers and sergeants, who all swore And signed sworn affidavits that this is what they saw and this is what happened.
	So they didn't care if anybody believed them or not.
	The best part of this was that on the same day, a force of German fighters were attacking British fighters coming down from high altitude.
	And in this case, they were Messerschmitts mainly making the attack.
	and suddenly in the midst of the Messerschmitts and out speeding them were Fokker fighters,
	were Albert Stets and different German fighters of World War I that did the same thing that
	the British fighters did.
	They out sped them, attacked the British formations, broke them up and the Germans scored heavily
	against their enemy on this particular day and when the airplanes all broke up in the
	battle and separated all the World War I airplanes were nowhere to be found.
	But there were several that were shot down by, or were shooting down some of the World
	War II planes and those pilots remembered their being attacked and their airplane was
	set on fire and they bailed out.
	Well, I don't know what else you'd call that, but ghosts of the air.
	Exactly what it is.
	That's one type of case.
	There's another one in the museum up in Ohio, where they have a B-24 bomber from World War II, which is called a Strawberry Bitch.
	And the airplane is still in pretty good condition.
	It flew about 70 missions of World War II.
	And they used to report strange lights in the museum at night when there were no lights turned on.
	And so they went into the museum and hid during the day and waited till night.
	And sure enough, in the nose of the B-24, which was closed and nobody was in the airplane, a light began to appear.
	And these men were armed.
	And moved toward the nose of the B-24, and in the nose section where the bombardier would sit, all glassed in, appeared a bright light, and they saw a man sitting on the bombardier's seat.
	And they all spoke to him and said, we don't know what you're doing up there, but come on down.
	And that's an order.
	And he smiled at them and he said, I was killed in this airplane.
	Your guns mean nothing to me.
	And he faded out of sight.
	There were seven witnesses to this.
	That was another one taking place like that.
	There are cases like this that just went on and on and on.
	Airplanes that disappeared in World War I, usually a BE-8, Bristol.
	There was one where a British air marshal in World War II, in the beginning of the Battle of Britain, so it was flying along the coast of England, along the eastern coast, saw an old biplane in front of him.
	And immediately pursued it.
	Now, old biplanes are not that unusual because people rebuild airplanes.
	Sure.
	And training airplanes and biplanes as well.
	So he finally caught up to the, almost caught up to the bristle, and noticed it was a World War I model.
	He figured somebody had rebuilt it.
	So he started closing in distance, and suddenly the bristle, the upper wings collapsed.
	The airplane burst into flames, and tumbled to the ground.
	He landed on a golf course, People were running up to the airplane and the airplane was now demolished, mainly burned wreckage, and the pilot was dead.
	Strange thing about this particular event was that the pilot in World War I had died the same way.
	They found the wreckage on the field.
	The numbers on the airplane that had been seen in 1941 With the same numbers as the airplane in 1918.
	1918. Oh, boy. Oh my. And they held full services for that pilot.
	All right. That brings up the subject of time. Hold on just one moment, Martin. We'll be
	right back to you. My guest is Martin Caden. And it does bring up the subject of time.
	And we're going to talk a little bit about the nature of time in just a moment.
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	Alright, well, maybe it's just getting close to Halloween, but these stories are beginning to get to me now.
	Uhh...
	Martin, I've had a number of people on this program that have talked about time and apparent slips in and out of time.
	You just jumped on my bandwagon.
	Well, good.
	Is that what you think is occurring in these kinds of cases, or what?
	Absolutely, because we've also confirmed They slipped some time in being able to measure them with the cesium atomic timers, which go down to about, oh, two billionths of a second.
	But I'll give you two cases, I think three cases, which involve people as well.
	In the Pacific Theater in World War II, there was a B-24 outfit going on in a raid, and they were attacked by Japanese fighters.
	The airplane, one of the B-24s, was shot down.
	Nobody saw it go down.
	And the other planes got home, and when the crews all gathered together, they said, well, let's go look for the airplane that may have landed on the Swall Island somewhere, because there are no Japanese reported in this area.
	Right.
	And this is a B-24 Liberator on the 13th Air Force.
	These people went out again and looked for the bomb, looked for the bomber's records, and looked for the missing sergeant.
	Nobody could find anything.
	They went back to their base, and there was a letter For the commanding officer from the, uh, missing sergeant's mother, of all things.
	How she knew her son was missing, nobody knows to this day.
	And she wrote him and said, I know my son is missing and presumed dead.
	Killed in action.
	But he's not.
	He's alive.
	And this is where you will find him.
	And she drew a map that she sent to the, uh, B-24 outfit.
	The map included an island, Green Island, That was not anywhere on the maps of the Air Force that use these for their navigation and bombing runs.
	And the Major who was in charge said, this is insane, but I can't leave this alone.
	I've got to follow it.
	How she knew her son was dead before they even knew it was just wild.
	Long story short, they went out in the B-24s and they searched through the area.
	They found nothing.
	Then they went to the Navy and said, if you get any new charts of this area, showing this island called Green Island.
	Navy said they came in yesterday.
	They went back out with the B-24s, found the island, and found the shed that this missing sergeant had made for himself, and then died.
	Oh my God.
	Now this is in the official records of the Air Force.
	How much time had passed until they finally got to that island?
	Several weeks.
	So I presume he starved to death, or... Or he became ill.
	Or became ill.
	Or a Japanese force landed on the island, took him prisoner, or killed him.
	But the fact that he was there, and built a shed, and stayed there, and wrote messages and sent SOS, nobody figured out how his mother could have done.
	Did anybody ever go back and interview his mother?
	Yes.
	And all she said, I knew it, that's all I can tell you.
	I knew it as well as I knew my son.
	Now we've got another one in the European theater.
	There are several with B-17s, and I'd like to give you two of them, where the time is so important on this.
	All right, well, time is important.
	Unfortunately, we're about at the top of the hour, which means you're going to get about a six-minute break, so it's probably a bad time to start, you know, start a new story.
	Just as a matter of curiosity, very quickly, did you see the movie called The Langoliers on television?
	No, I did not.
	You didn't.
	It involved an airplane and a slip in time.
	It was very interesting.
	But I will tell you one thing on this, Art.
	Jay Barber from NBC News is a friend of mine for many years.
	We're fellow broadcasters.
	And we just turned out a huge book, which Simon Schuster called The journey through time.
	And a lot of it's explained in there.
	All right, Martin.
	Hold on.
	We'll do our news break here at the top of the hour and be right back.
	The man knows how to tell a story, doesn't he?
	Martin Caden.
	Ghosts of the air.
	More coming up.
	♪♪ ♪♪
	Attention BQ fans, BQ has moved.
	Well, sort of anyway.
	You'll still be able to hear her from 2 to 4 afternoons here on Talk 102.
	But her show is actually on from 11 to 1.
	Confused?
	Anyway, if you want to call BQ, use your number from 11 to 1 and listen from 2 to 4.
	The number is 800-510-TALK.
	So dial from 11 to 1 and listen from 2 to 4 at a regular time.
	It's the all-new BQ View.
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	On Central Illinois Talk Radio, Talk 102.
	A mystery of missing meteors.
	I'm Bob Hirschhorn and this is Why Is It?
	In popular legend, some craters are rumored to have been caused by alien spacecraft crashing into the Earth.
	In fact, the craters do come from objects crashing in from outer space.
	Comets and meteorites.
	But what Eiler Coates of Metterley, Louisiana wants to know is... Why is it there are no meteors?
	Good question.
	I mean, they just didn't get up and walk away, did they?
	I asked astronomer Andrew Fracknoy, a consultant for the Astronomical Society of the Pacific.
	He explained that comets, which are mostly ice, usually just evaporate before they hit the ground.
	All that's left to hit the Earth is a big shockwave, and that's still powerful enough to blast out a good-sized crater.
	Meteorites, on the other hand, have more rock than ice in them.
	Dr. Fracknoy explains that parts of them actually make it to the ground.
	The less icy and more rocky it is, the more of it is likely to be found.
	But again, you have to remember, even if they make it down to the ground, the impact will break them apart, vaporize a lot of them.
	So that it's very rare that the chunk that comes to the Earth from space resembles its original form by the time we see it on the ground.
	So you might find fragments of the meteorites that caused the crater, just don't expect to be too impressed.
	And if you've got a science question, just dial 1-800-WHY-IS-IT.
	We'll try to impress you with our answer.
	For the American Association for the Advancement of Science, I'm Bob Hirschhorn, on the Mutual Broadcasting System.
	This is Talk 102.
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	Mutual News.
	Game two of the World Series goes to the home team, Atlanta.
	The Braves have made it two in a row by four to three over the Indians on a tie-breaking two-run homer by catcher Javi Lopez.
	As varied as the world leaders gathered in New York at the protests against their policies, a virtual disunited nations of demonstrators is on the streets for the UN's birthday.
	Among them, protesters against Cuba's president.
	Cuban-American Jose Aguilar says he can't understand why such a welcome for Castro.
	How could people here think that he is so wonderful and a savior when he is a tyrant, a murderer, he has ruled for 36 years, no free election.
	The people there can't express their views like the people here.
	Castro tonight took his pitch for lifting the economic embargo on Cuba to a church in Harlem.
	He says Washington acts as though there is still a Cold War.
	I'm Jan Johnson.
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	One of the most... 106.
	106.5.
	I'm going to put it on the side.
	It is a complete shortwave radio.
	Martin Caden.
	702 7 area code 702 727 1295 727 1295 in the 702 area code.
	Now again, here's Art Bell.
	Well that's at the lowest price.
	It is a complete shortwave radio.
	Martin Caden.
	Martin, you were about to tell us a couple of stories.
	Um.
	On time.
	On the subject of time and flying.
	What do you know?
	I got a good one for you in the, uh, personnel.
	We have a judge, uh, Judge Ken Bacon from the Midwest.
	And the best thing about Judge Bacon, of course, is his position as a top justice.
	And he's also a pilot.
	Now, the judge was flying in the local area out in the, uh, big cornfield and greenfields.
	And got caught by weather, didn't notice some bad weather coming in.
	He could not make it back to his own field, which would have been dangerous.
	So he began to look for a place to land and set the airplane down.
	And as he was turning through one area, he saw a field below him that wasn't on his chart, and a large concrete paved field.
	And the weather was getting worse, so he started down.
	Landed his airplane, shut off the engine, And began to go through a long row of hangars.
	There was nobody there.
	All the food in the mess halls was half-eaten.
	And sandwiches had bites taken out of them.
	Lights were still on.
	Power was still working.
	The place was completely deserted.
	A ghost airfield with about 150 aircraft on it.
	British aircraft.
	And he couldn't get anybody on his radio, so he finally went back to his own plane when the weather began to change.
	Climbed in his plane and flew back to his own home field.
	Found a thin piece of straw run through a hard rubber tire.
	And went into the main office and said, where the hell is this field?
	They all turned to him and said, so it's happened to you too.
	There is no field there.
	The only sign on the damn airport was some old farmer's field and yet The airport was a runway 6,000 to 8,000 feet long and paved,
	concrete, and they all set to him so it's happened to you too.
	And he never did find that airfield again.
	And he searched for it.
	Now, the thing about Ken Bacon especially is that I believe you can get him on your
	show.
	And if you call Galdi Press, which you know, of course they can set it up.
	May I take a moment just to put down... We've been getting calls on my other phones as to where they can get close to the air.
	Yes, of course.
	It's, uh, 1-800-777-3454.
	Just one more time, 1-800-777-3454.
	That's business out of the way right now.
	All right.
	3454.
	Just one more time.
	1-800-777-3454.
	That's business out of the way right now.
	The best thing about Ken Bacon is the man is here, and that's a...
	He literally flew over a field that appeared out of nowhere through time, was there for a while, and disappeared.
	Now, we have no information for it except the fact that there are jumps in time.
	There are fractures in the thin walls or whatever it is that makes up the stuff of time.
	That sounds more like the guardian angel of a pilot, though.
	In many ways, it is.
	Now, I've had this happen to me also, but I did want to tell you some other ones about Europe with some B-17 bombers, and I'll keep these as short as I can.
	Sure.
	One B-17 is coming back from a major raid on Germany.
	The airplane is shot to hell.
	It's barely able to fly on three engines.
	One of them is burning, and a large formation is flying in and trying to keep up with the other airplanes so they'll have their firepower in case they're hit by any more German fighters.
	In the meantime, they're being outstripped by the rest of the formation.
	And now they're alone in the air.
	And they keep going toward England.
	A second engine dies.
	And the airplane keeps flying.
	Third engine dies.
	Fourth engine dies.
	And the B-17 is now maintaining the same speed as the main formation.
	And there are no engines running.
	It reaches its home field.
	All the airplanes peel off of their landing patterns, including this B-17, which is being watched now by more than 2,000 men.
	The airplane goes through the complete circuit of the field, drops its flaps, landing gear, sets up everything for landing, and the people are all staying away from it and firing flares, and the airplane lands.
	When it lands, it taxis to its tie-down area, and the engines stop.
	Although they've been running all this time, no one knew how because there's no fuel in the damn airplane.
	I'm a...
	So the crews come out and they tell all the men on the field, stay here, we want witnesses to this.
	The ground crews go out, open the hatch, climb aboard, and there are ten dead men aboard that B-17.
	I got this, by the way, from the combat files of the 8th Air Force when I went to Alabama some time ago to research this material.
	This has never been released.
	All right.
	There's one aspect of it I didn't understand or seem contradictory.
	You said while they were in the air, engine 1, 2, 3, and then 4 quit.
	Right.
	Then you said when they got to the ground and taxied to their location, the engine stops.
	Right.
	And there was no fuel aboard the airplane.
	But presumably they had already been stopped, had they not?
	They stopped in the air, somewhere along the way back they restarted.
	They restarted, and then on the ground they stopped and they checked and there was no fuel.
	Now, when they took the ten bodies out of the airplane, it burst into flames without fuel aboard, and the airplane burned to the ground in this melted metal.
	That's one B-17 that did that.
	There are more of these that happened all through the war and in each case with the military got the enlisted men and the officers to sign sworn statements that this is what they had seen and this is what they had been proven by their own objective observations.
	Now maybe this will take you out of your field or maybe not but when you relate these kind of stories about things that have occurred in the air do you think that odd things like this are more frequent Um, in the world of aviation, then they are here on the ground because we get a million ghost stories every year.
	I mean, is it something that just is occurring everywhere or more frequent in aviation?
	It is much more frequent in aviation.
	There's a matter of the tremendous energy that's set off by airplanes moving at 200 to 600 thousand miles an hour.
	And that causes fluctuations in whatever Field of energy in which we exist.
	And it's been happening so many times and happening again and again and again.
	Look, I flew through the Bermuda Triangle maybe 500 times.
	497 were absolutely calm.
	The other three were hell on wheels.
	The last time we did this was in a consolidated BBY Catalina flying boat.
	We flew a B-7, we flew the BBY over to Europe to reenact the flight of the NC-4 in 1919.
	And on the way back from the Azores, we stopped in Bermuda, I picked up my wife and some other guy's wife, and we continued on toward Jacksonville.
	We were about two hours out of Jacksonville, when suddenly the sky began to turn yellow, and the weather had been perfect all this time.
	Yellow?
	Yellow.
	Like murk.
	Like flying on the inside of a lemon meringue pie.
	We had two million dollars worth of new electronics aboard the airplane.
	After about ten minutes, we could no longer see the wingtips of our airplane.
	And we had no autopilot.
	So, we still were not that concerned.
	One, because the sun was low on the horizon and we headed toward that light spot.
	And we kept flying that way.
	All our instruments were dead.
	Every instrument aboard the airplane Except those run by air pressure rolled over and died.
	Two million dollars worth.
	So we kept going and we said, well, let's get down to see how low we can get and still see the ocean.
	We gave it up when the altimeter, which is pressure fed, read 250 feet, but went back up to about 9,000.
	We still never saw anything.
	And then if the radios were dead, the electronics were dead, We kept flying and suddenly we burst out of a veil.
	It seemed like a veil between this yellow murk and the regular sky.
	And we could see clearly now for 150 miles.
	Little by little, every instrument in the airplane rolled over and came back to life.
	By the time we got to Jacksonville Naval Air Station, everything was normal again.
	We had 14 of the Navy's top pilots aboard that airplane.
	Now, you know, people were saying to us, well, that really can't have happened.
	We said, go to hell.
	We don't give a damn what you believe.
	You weren't there.
	You didn't see it.
	You didn't experience it.
	You don't know what you're talking about.
	And we really don't know or care what you think about it.
	Because we were there, and that's the way it happened.
	What do you think you went through?
	We don't know.
	We think it is... We found out later the area was the same specific area.
	about the Bermuda Triangle, where the American Skylab Space Station, the third stage of the
	Saturn V, had orbited for several months. And just about every time we went through
	this one particular area, all the instruments stopped working. So we think it's a force
	field of some kind, and that's all we know about it right now. We were just dazzled by
	the thing.
	Well, you know, there was a thing on 2020, Linda Howe mentioned it on crop circles, and
	one of the people speculating, one of the scientists was talking about possible very
	strong, very narrow, focused magnetic energy that either emanates from or to the Earth
	that causes these, and that there are definite areas where things occur on the Earth, magnetically
	anomalous areas.
	That makes as much sense as anything else, and most likely it's a combination of several factors like that.
	But the idea that we seem to be able to understand all these forces working on the Earth, that's nonsense!
	We're still children walking through a forest in terms of what we know and what we hope to know.
	And we just don't know that much about what's going on out there.
	I mentioned the book on A Journey Through Time, which is exploring the universe for 12 billion years back.
	We learned in here, the idea of a star that is not spherical is impossible.
	We have photographs of stars that are shaped like footballs.
	Mm-hmm.
	And are burning fiercely.
	So, 90% of everything we ever thought or knew or had confirmed about astronomical data, astrophysical data, went right into the garbage can.
	It was all wrong.
	Not because people were stupid, but because we simply didn't know.
	And many things we still don't know.
	Many things we don't.
	In a moment, um, stay right there.
	I'm gonna come back and ask you about astronauts.
	Uh, specifically Neil Armstrong, but I'm sure others and what they have seen.
	So we will take a leap forward, uh, time-wise from some of the stories we've been getting.
	To what some of our astronauts have been seeing.
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	Well now, there are new antioxidants on the market and listen.
	Scientists say they are 20 times more powerful than vitamin C and 50 times the power of vitamin E, another antioxidant.
	They're called pycnogenols, the super-antioxidants.
	You want to remember that if you're a health-conscious individual.
	Why?
	Well, according to Richard Passwater, Ph.D.
	and authority in the field, you're being bombarded by something called free radicals, toxins, environmental and otherwise, that break down cells, damage tissue, cause you to age faster, develop stiff joints, and wrinkle sooner than you ought to.
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	Call 1-800-856-1119.
	That's 1-800-856-1119.
	My guest is Martin Caden, Ghosts of the Air, his latest book out of about 200.
	800-856-1119.
	My guest is Martin Caden, Ghosts of the Air, his latest book out of about 200.
	He's been writing about aviation for a very long time.
	He has been a consultant to the commander of the Air Force Missile Test Center, the
	FAA flight surgeon, and the FAA administrator.
	Just thought you ought to know who you're listening to.
	And in a moment, more of it.
	Absolutely fresh flowers.
	A flower farm.
	Southern California.
	All they do is sell flowers directly to the people.
	No middle people, no middle guy, no florist, none of this baloney.
	You buy them straight from the farm.
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	Not only that, but they are exclusively miniature carnations.
	A beautiful flower, kind of like a small rose.
	And you get every color of the rainbow.
	They last and last and last.
	I see advertisements on TV, these flower companies talking about a week.
	Wait till you see what happens with these.
	Nobody else has this good a deal.
	It's absolutely fresh flowers.
	It comes in a large triangular box, delivered by a friendly FedEx guy.
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	That's the deal.
	$39.95 is the price.
	I suggest you get on the horn now.
	At 1-800-562-6438.
	That's 1-800-562-6438.
	Back now to Martin Caden.
	Martin, our astronauts have seen things, have they not?
	That's 1-800-562-6438.
	Back now to Martin Caden.
	Martin, our astronauts have seen things, have they not?
	They've seen things, but not one single astronaut will say flatly he's seen something that's
	extraterrestrial.
	The closest that I've heard is Neil Armstrong, who's made some very cryptic, unusual statements, most recently at the White House, about things out there that we can barely imagine.
	And, you know, he hints at what might be there, as though he wants to tell, but can't.
	It's tough to explain, though, or to break down.
	Because even Gordon Cooper, when he was stationed in Northern Europe with NATO, reported seeing disks flying so far overhead they could not intercept them with their F-84 from the jet fighters.
	But then, not being able to explain something doesn't give us the right to extrapolate what it might be as fact.
	That's right.
	And I wish we had more time tonight, and I'll come back with you on this, because I've spent 20 years investigating these things.
	I've chased them in jet fighters.
	I tried to ram them more than once.
	Really?
	I chased them in B-25s, and they were extraordinary.
	Now, some of the astronauts reported strange tube-shaped objects in space.
	Well, they turned out to be hoses that came off the ship.
	The other ones cannot be explained, and so we have to walk a middle road.
	But the key, I want to make so clear, Is that not being able to understand or explain does not give us the right to draw a conclusion that's final.
	Right.
	But there's so much in between all this that I think you're going to find fascinating because I spent first with the Continental Air Command of the U.S.
	Air Force working with General Stratemeyer.
	I did some of the very first investigations.
	Now, I fly, as I mentioned, in addition to the planes that we fly here, I've owned a couple of Messerschmitts, a Ju-52, in which I set some world records.
	I've had my own B-17, a T-33 jet fighter, so that it's a combination of collecting everything all around me, plus what I've seen myself, and what I've experienced myself.
	You said you tried to ram something.
	Yes.
	I would think any pilot would think several times before trying to ram anything in the middle of the air, would you try to ram?
	You saw a disk that was glowing during the day, and it seemed to be transparent to some extent.
	And then one of the disks investigated over Washington, D.C.
	was one that had been driving the people crazy up there.
	They tracked it on radar, they had visuals, they had photographs, and one pilot flying an F-94C Starfire said, to hell with this, he went to afterburner and he rammed it, and flew right through it.
	All the instruments in the airplane jumped And he flew right through it as though it was nothing more than a picture of a television screen being shown on the clouds.
	So I tried it.
	If this guy could get away with it, I figured I'd take a chance on that too.
	Makes sense.
	So that's why I tried that.
	If you want me to come back with you and do a UFO one, I will.
	I'd like once more just to tell our listeners that the number to call for copies of Ghost in the Air is 1-800-777.
	34, 54.
	And they're just about sold out on the first big printing and they're going great guns on the rest of it.
	Well, I can imagine why.
	Well, we've just touched the tip of the iceberg and what is really fascinating on all these different fields.
	And Art, I'd be glad to come back with you.
	All right.
	Well, there are a lot of stories.
	What I do want to do is get the telephone lines open here shortly and allow people to ask you questions.
	You up for that?
	All right, good.
	What I'm going to do then is give out my fax number.
	Stay put, Martin.
	Martin Caden is my guest.
	And if you have any related questions from a man who has been all his adult life a pilot and relates a lot of stories like this, now is the time.
	By the way, if you want to fax in a question, our fax number is area code 702-727.
	8-4-9-9, 7-0-2, 7-2-7, 84-99.
	Martin Caden.
	I think he thought the show was over.
	Wrong.
	We're only half done.
	So we'll go back to Martin Caden in just a moment.
	Martin Caden is author of Ghosts of the Air.
	And we're talking about incidents that have occurred in the air.
	That, for lack of any better word, really are ghostly.
	And we'll get back to it in just a moment.
	I don't know if ghostly would be the right word.
	Perhaps paranormal occurrences in the air.
	I don't know.
	What I do know is, GMX is not paranormal.
	I'm here.
	Good.
	Just one fact before we go to calls here.
	Martin, you mentioned the dead commercial pilot who appeared Yes.
	later flights. My understanding is he had been the captain of an L-1011 that crashed.
	He was.
	He was. He supposedly said no L-1011 would ever crash again, but in fact, one did crash
	on approach to an airport in Texas due to wind shear some years later. Were you aware
	of that? And if so, comments. Yes, I am aware of it. And I've got to make the point that
	when the pilot was heard to say no other no 1011 will crash, that wasn't the man talking
	That was somebody telling you what he said, if they heard him correctly.
	So you have to draw the line there again.
	No one recorded it.
	No one had witnesses to what was said or what voice was heard.
	and so that we have one man or one person or two or three
	who heard this voice say this one time and was gone.
	Alright, to the phones and east of the Rockies, you're on the air with
	Art Bell and Martin Caton, hi.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	Say, I'd like to get the spelling on Martin's last name.
	All right.
	That's C-A-I-D-I-N.
	C-A-I-D-I-N.
	Right.
	That's right.
	And once again, could you repeat your number as it goes through the air?
	For the publisher?
	Sure can. 1-800-777-3454.
	Sure can.
	Okay, did you fly out in the Pacific during the war?
	Not during the war, I was in a merchant marine.
	Okay, thank you for your time.
	All right, where are you calling from, sir?
	I'm calling from Madison.
	Madison, Wisconsin.
	All right, good.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with RFL and Martin Kagan.
	Hi.
	Am I on the air?
	You're on the air.
	Okay, yeah, Jack from North Bend, Oregon.
	Hi, Jack.
	Yeah, oh, hi.
	The thing is, and this is probably for your guests, I had had a nice conversation with, you know, Norio Hayakawa?
	Yes, I know him.
	And he was kind enough to give me a tape and a lot of the literature.
	Anyway, do you feel, and I kind of feel maybe, that the Air Force or somewhere in the military, they have a fantastic ability to do holographic work, and possibly, because you can do a space image, you can do it against the clouds, and that may or may not be the question for you, and the next one is... Well, wait a minute, before you move on to the next one, how would you work the holographic scheme into the World War II things that Martin was talking about?
	Well, you really can't, because holograms are a part of the laser technology.
	I don't think that I... Some people imply they could, but I don't feel they can.
	I'm talking about more recent things that seem to be there, but they're not.
	Yeah, I understand.
	I was just pointing out that, obviously, that technology at that time did not exist.
	I don't think so.
	No.
	Alright, number two?
	And number two question is, is I watched a...
	I watched a, oh this is a, this is a supposedly a documentary UFO film.
	It was something about the UFO, supposedly that there was aliens that came down here and landed somewhere in Upper Spain in about 1956.
	And they had some technology that was absolutely fantastic according to the documentary.
	I'm trying to think of the name of the movie.
	It was about a two-hour movie.
	I always have a question about this.
	If their technology was so superior, and it was so available to people, why didn't we ever learn anything from it?
	And why has no one else ever seen this type of ship again?
	Okay, those are good questions.
	But while we're at it, Martin, I live out here in Nevada.
	Uh, out in the wild, high desert country.
	Uh, across the mountains from me, just right across the mountains from me, is an area known as Area 51 or Dreamland.
	I know it quite well.
	Uh-huh.
	Well, there in fact, Martin, they do work on new aircraft, and we don't know what else.
	They are expanding the area of secrecy.
	The President just signed a document Allowing them to expand this area of secrecy and not have to disclose anything about Area 51.
	I'll give you one right now.
	Go right ahead.
	They already are flying anti-matter propulsion out of that area.
	They go very high with aircraft that can take them high with either ramjets or rockets and then they ignite the type of fuel That's about 300,000 times as powerful as a chemical fuel.
	The Air Force let it slip at a meeting, and I have a quote from the Air Force personnel who were shut up very quickly right after this.
	So that's one thing like that that takes place.
	There are also ways of getting different weapons to work.
	Well, we do see things rise vertically behind these mountains and dance about.
	That's all I can tell you.
	to their normal physical status at a later date.
	That's only two out of a much larger number.
	Well, we do see things rise vertically behind these mountains and dance about.
	Now, that's all I can tell you.
	I had one very close encounter out here, Martin, that I still, I don't like relating with a
	triangular object about 150 feet above me that was not flying, Martin, it was floating.
	And I was in the Air Force and I flew enough to know what it takes to, you know, aerodynamically fly versus float.
	And that was very close.
	It's the only one I've ever had like it close up like that.
	And, uh, and I, I don't know that I liked it.
	It could be an anti-magnetic, uh, levitator.
	We've had these for years.
	It could be with fans that are placed within the wing or the body of the vehicle.
	Because right now, they're somewhere in the order of 120 vertical flying unmanned craft that are being used for reconnaissance and weapons delivery.
	Well, this one made no noise, Martin.
	Not even a whisper.
	Let me go to our wildcard line.
	You're on the air with Martin Caden.
	Hi.
	Hello, Martin.
	Hi.
	Where are you, sir?
	This is Owen from Princeton, Minnesota.
	Yes, sir.
	And I'm wondering, you talked about time rift, and my question is, what kind of futuristic people have ripped into current times, and if there aren't any, why not?
	Well, that's a good question.
	Good question, because we don't know if they have or not, and we don't know if they did, if we could detect it while they did it.
	Somebody with that kind of forward knowledge in science And technical advancement could cloak themselves very easily.
	Either that or they would have no more control over it than we do and slip in and out of it unannounced.
	That's also as much a possibility as the other side.
	Or even unwanted.
	And certainly there are enough entities and things seen that are unexplainable that that could be part of it.
	So I certainly wouldn't rule it out.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Art Bell and Martin Caden.
	Hi.
	Yeah, Martin.
	Go ahead.
	How about them two P-51s that were chasing UFOs down near Fort Knox?
	The two P-51s were picked up in a bushel basket.
	Do you recall that?
	I recall that, but some of your facts were a little askew.
	This was 1947.
	There were two P-51Ds of the Air National Guard.
	That's true.
	All four airplanes had seen what they reported as a huge circular disk at high altitude.
	Yeah.
	And the pilots decided to go after it.
	Three of the Mustangs did not have any oxygen on them.
	In fact, none of the Mustangs had oxygen aboard their aircraft.
	And three of the pilots quitted about 14 to 15,000 feet and came back down.
	One pilot, Captain Thomas Mantell, just poured the coal to the P-51 and went after it as high and as fast as his Mustang would fly.
	He lost consciousness due to hypoxia, a lack of oxygen.
	There was a former wife who saw his P-51 come out of the sky with full power doing about six fifty or seven hundred miles an hour just before it
	impacted the ground the pilot was fighting to come out one wing lifted and the nose began to
	lift and the airplane impacted when this happened i was in intelligence in the continental
	air command at mitchell field i was sent out to investigate it
	That's why I have the kind of detail today.
	Okay, I stand correct.
	All right, well we thank you.
	You're not wrong, it's just what you heard.
	All right, we thank you for the call.
	What happens, of course, is these stories get, as a natural course of events, embellished and changed a little bit, I guess, don't they?
	Oh, of course they do.
	It must be tough trying to collect them Intact from the originators so that you don't get them embellished.
	Look, Art, you flew with the Air Force, right?
	Correct.
	You remember a name of a man who won the Medal of Honor?
	Oh, hell, his father.
	He won the Medal of Honor by making a suicide dive into a Japanese battleship.
	I'm sorry, I don't... Colin Kelly.
	My Air Force career is a lot more recent.
	I've heard the name, though.
	Well, this is 1942, and the books today will tell you that Colin Kelly Jr.
	took his B-17 and made a suicide dive into the 23,000-ton battleship Aruna.
	The truth is, Colin Kelly never ran a battleship, never won the Medal of Honor, never attacked any ship in terms of a dive into it, but bomb that battleship from 23,000 feet with 30 Japanese
	fighters attacking him.
	The airplane was set on fire.
	Colin Kelly stayed at the controls of his airplane until all his men bailed out, and
	then he bailed out.
	And just as he did, his airplane exploded.
	His body fell to the ground about 3,000 feet from the tower at Clark Field in Manila, in
	Yes.
	Now that's the true story.
	The true story about Kelly is a far greater one than a man making a suicide dive.
	But to this day, you find very, very few books that tell the truth about what happened that day.
	And the stories, they stick, don't they?
	They stick.
	You'll even find the story told in its original, incorrect form in General McArthur's history.
	Remarkable.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Martin Caden.
	Where are you calling from, please?
	I'm calling from St.
	Louis, Missouri.
	Yes, sir.
	Listen, would you have Martin Caden to tell that really spooky story about the energy that was seen in Vietnam?
	That gives me the chills.
	Thank you.
	Wait a minute.
	Well, he's gone.
	Do you know the one he's talking about, Martin?
	I didn't hear him completely.
	Well, he asked about a very spooky story about some entities that were seen in Vietnam.
	The Big Yellow.
	Oh, well, I'm glad you know what he's talking about.
	What is he?
	David Gower, who's now in St.
	Louis, I believe, is a very large and very husky marine and was leading a patrol.
	Into the bush in Vietnam.
	They were being followed by what they reported to be very large, hairy, about seven foot tall, strange beings that were more animal than human.
	And they tried to get away from them, and suddenly they were attacked by them.
	And David went down on one knee and emptied his BAR into this one creature.
	Most of the slugs were seen going through the creature, Without any damage, several hit him directly in the head and the chest, because David was a marksman.
	And so a creature came at him, that's when David threw away his gun and started to run.
	Now that I understand.
	Right.
	The thing came after him, and he was running for a powerboat in the river, when the thing took a slash at him, and he jumped in the boat.
	The slash ripped the heel off his foot.
	Oh my God.
	Now, he didn't get hurt from that.
	but they poured the power to the boat and took off into mid-river and saw these three creatures standing on the deck behind
	them.
	They're not the only ones to have seen this, but since I didn't talk to anybody else who did see it,
	I refused to put into the book that Steve was told by a friend of a friend of a friend.
	I don't believe in that.
	But this one was someone I knew personally, and we got confirmation from one other person with that.
	Well, that sounds like what somebody else might call Bigfoot.
	It sounds very much like it.
	But since, again, since we don't have any direct terms of identification with photography, I can't go so far as to say it is a relative of Bigfoot.
	Alright Martin, stay right where you are and we'll be right back.
	This is Dreamland.
	And Martin, I've got a fact I want you to hear and then comment on.
	A few minutes here before the top of the hour.
	Dear Art, ask your guest if he can add to the tale, this is really weird, of a B-17 over Germany when the tail gunner lost contact with the rest of the crew after they were hit by flak.
	The tail gunner wanted to move forward to see what happened, but he decided to stay put.
	Now, the plane flew on, became erratic in flight three times as it was descending, but each time smoothing out.
	It landed in a field in Germany.
	When the tail gunner got out, there was no plane.
	Just the tail section.
	It was perfectly balanced, which allowed it to glide.
	If the gunner had moved, he would surely have died.
	From Keith from Tacoma, could that be?
	The story is absolutely true.
	It is?
	It is true, and I've seen photographs of the tail section.
	Well that seems so impossible!
	And yet you're affirming it.
	I'm confirming it completely.
	It's just like a B-17 of a North Africa that killed a pilot of a German Messerschmitt 109.
	The pilot was stuck on the controls.
	The airplane crashed into the B-17.
	The wing of the German fighter cut the B-17 in half.
	And we have photographs of the airplane still in the air flying.
	and you can see daylight through a long jagged tear in the back of the airplane.
	It turned out that when the airplane flew home, that the tail gunner, frightened for
	his life, climbed up forward, the airplane got back to its own field and landed, and
	when it stopped, it broke in half.
	Because the only thing that held that airplane together was that one locked door.
	That just seems absolutely impossible.
	We've got the photograph of the airplane in the air.
	I understand.
	So the story you got from the man with that fax is 100% true.
	All right.
	I didn't expect that answer, but there you go.
	All right.
	I will skip and make this a little shorter.
	It's from Paul, who flew Boeing 737s 1,000 hours in the air all around the country, he says.
	I'm sure you're well aware there are very few reports from airlines regarding flying saucers and such.
	UFO is anything we cannot identify.
	If there's so much of this activity out there, why is it that we professional pilots see so darn little of it and report even less?
	Because I don't believe for a moment that there is that much activity.
	I spend a hell of a lot of time in the air Most of which I never saw anything that we either couldn't identify or that was too far away to identify.
	The word UFO means unidentified flying object.
	How people can claim to identify an unidentified object is beyond me.
	So now you have all these people who have little experience and a very honest And they're very active, but they don't have the experience of studying an object in the air, judging its height, its altitude, and other factors about its performance, and right away they say UFO, which is the only thing they know to say.
	Alright, let's try this approach then, Martin.
	This is reasonable.
	In those cases where pilots have gone out on a limb and reported something, how frequently has there been cooperating evidence from radar?
	Many times, but radar is no confirmation by itself.
	You can get ghost echoes on radar.
	You can get certain machinery that's near the base of a radar station, which will show an airplane leaping up and down 5,000 feet instantly, and it's not happening at all.
	So the radar is not a confirmation by itself.
	It's just one more factor which helps to identify with all the other factors that are involved.
	And you can't take it by itself.
	I don't care who the hell says what.
	You just can't do it because it's not that accurate.
	Well, I think that reflective radar these days for commercial flying is back up anyway to transponder use, is it not?
	It is.
	Well, I'll put it this way.
	I flew for 12 years a Junker JU-52 German tri-motor bomber transport.
	And this airplane was built in 55.
	And the medal was skin-corrugated duralumin.
	And I want to tell you that this is an airplane that forced me to be described as a UFO, and I was intercepted by Navy jet fighters.
	Oh, no kidding.
	Alright, we're at the top of the hour.
	Hold on, we've got one more hour to go.
	My guest is Martin Caden.
	Take a break, Martin.
	We'll be right back to you.
	this is Dreamland.
	I'm going to go ahead and get started.
	Okay.
	Call Art now, toll free at 1-800-618-8255.
	1-800-618-TALK.
	First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
	702-727-1222.
	Or the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
	727-1295.
	In the 702 area code.
	Now again, here's Art Bell.
	Now again, here I am.
	702-727-1222 or the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
	727-1295 in the 702 area code.
	Now again, here's Art Bell.
	Now again, here I am. The only number not given there is for east of the Rockies, anywhere out east, it's toll free.
	At 1-800-825-5033.
	1-800-825-5033.
	My guest is Martin Caden.
	He's written Ghosts in the Air and 200 other books on aviation.
	800-825-5033. My guest is Martin Caden. He's written Ghosts in the Air and 200 other books
	on aviation. And we'll get back to him in a few minutes. It's Facts from Gary in Oakland,
	California. Martin and I was once a passenger on a commercial flight that was approaching
	LAX, that's Los Angeles, for landing.
	The time was late in the afternoon or early evening.
	Somewhere over the LA area, it seemed the light coming in the windows got kind of yellow.
	Actually, it increased rapidly until the entire cabin of the plane was filled with this eerie yellow light that was exactly the color of French's mustard.
	I was not in a window seat, but from where I sat, I could see no detail through the window, just mustard yellow.
	Suddenly, there was a loud bang and a bright flash, and at that very instant, the yellow light was replaced by the normal sky.
	I think it was partly cloudy out there.
	I heard on the news that night that two aircraft had been struck by lightning on approach to LAX that day.
	I believe we were one of them.
	Is it possible that Caden's airplane was in a similar state, but for an extended period of time?
	The aircraft would have been very highly electrically charged, probably glowing with corona all over.
	Is that possible?
	Anything is possible.
	Although I prefer not to accept that explanation, because with that kind of electrical force on the airplane, what little air I got left would have been standing straight up.
	Good point.
	Um, and from Hawaii, this question.
	I've heard the explanation for the Bermuda Triangle, the shifting ocean bottom, releasing trapped gas, causing ships to lose their buoyancy, and basically the same principle for aircraft above the area.
	Do you feel this is the explanation?
	I do not.
	I sailed it, I sailed through that area, I've been in a merchant marine and a coast guard, and I've flown through the area also.
	There's not enough of that kind of force to take effect upon ships the way it has done.
	It's possible it took small ships down, like charter boats or small fishing boats, but not the big ones.
	All right.
	To the phones.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Martin Caden.
	Welcome.
	Hi, Art.
	This is another Martin from KVI Como Country.
	Up in the Seattle area.
	That's correct.
	Yes, sir.
	I have a couple of questions for Martin.
	Number one, the show has been going down two tracks.
	We started out with ghostly-type appearances in the air, and now we're moving more into the UFO or unidentified side of it.
	Earlier in the show, Martin had referenced some infrared photographic evidence, and I'd like the guests to go a little bit more into that, some examples of that.
	And then the second question, which also intrigued me, was later in the show, Martin referenced Uh, that we had over 120 vertically, um, takeoff and landing type aircraft.
	If you have some knowledge in those areas, and I was wondering if you could let us know, um, if you have any books on that type of thing as well.
	All right, fine.
	One at a time here.
	Infrared first, uh, Mark.
	Number one, even in the book, Ghost of the Air, we've got to, we have a number of photographs over infrared that were taken in graveyards and cemeteries and churches.
	Where no persons could be seen.
	When the photographs were developed and the film was developed, it was usually a woman standing or sitting in the midst of the gravestones or in the vestibule of the church.
	And no one has ever yet figured out how she could be seen on infrared, but not on the other film, and certainly not with normal eyesight.
	I, too, have some photographs of that sort.
	Right, and that's in Ghost of the Year.
	All right, now he mentioned all of these vertical takeoff and landing vehicles.
	These are basically unmanned aircraft, because one, they're a hell of a lot cheaper, and two, there must be two or three hundred of these designs, and they're testing them all the time to see what they can do.
	And since they are so less expensive, they don't mind if they lose some.
	In fact, they're designed to go into an area Take photographs, report.
	If they get back or not, it doesn't matter.
	Well, I've seen a lot of information to confirm what you've said.
	As a matter of fact, it seems like, I don't know, 20, 20, 60 minutes, one of those shows, showed some of the robotic aircraft we're beginning to use.
	That's right.
	And I would imagine, many times, to the casual observer, they would surely be regarded as some kind of UFO.
	Well, they are disks, mainly.
	So that when you see him in the air, you're seeing a flying disc.
	And it's real!
	How are we ever going to separate all of this?
	It's going to be fun.
	And it's going to get harder and harder as we go, I'm sure.
	We were talking about that flight I made up from South Texas, where I was declared a UFO.
	And I think it's only as fair to everybody to say what happened.
	What did happen?
	We were flying my JU-52, which is a German tri-motor about the size of a B-17.
	The airplane had corrugated skin.
	And corrugated skin, and this is important, when it's skin tracked by radar, the radar return is magnified by 10 to 1.
	Because that's what happened with corrugated skin on these things.
	Now the airplane was in lousy shape.
	We hadn't rebuilt it yet.
	Half my cylinders weren't working.
	So as we took off and I had Eastern Airlines number two captain with me in the left seat, Vern Reneau.
	We got in the air.
	As we took off, the left engine blew up.
	So we had a nice trail of fire about 30 feet behind the airplane.
	And we just kept going and got in the air.
	It was a pretty good idea.
	We had no brakes.
	As we climbed up, the right engine, the electrical system let go and that thing began to detonate.
	It predetonated with a very loud noise.
	So we were now cruising at about 1,200 feet with just a nose engine pulling us along.
	People were reporting along the entire coast, there's something strange in the air.
	It's on fire, it's exploding, and it's cruising along at about 80 miles an hour at this point.
	They called Corpus Christi.
	Corpus Christi immediately generated, you know, got two jet fighters in the air to try and track us down.
	The radar was now picking us up.
	It's larger and larger and larger.
	I see.
	We're now a thousand feet in diameter on the radar.
	I see.
	So you were the exact opposite of a stealth.
	Exactly.
	And the two jets came circling around us.
	In the meantime, there we are in an airplane with German markings all over it.
	My crew was out there with their middle fingers stuck up in the air outside.
	I see.
	And these two jets flew around us.
	And we heard the call from I have just two brief questions.
	Did you know that you did not have brakes when you took off?
	We did.
	the aircraft. They said, yes, but you're not going to believe what we've got. So we finally
	landed. We landed at Corpus Christi and the Coast Guard was kind enough to tow us into
	a hangar and give us some emergency repairs. I have just two brief questions. Did you know
	that you did not have brakes when you took off? Yes, we did.
	I knew it. Uh huh. Well, we could stop that airplane at about 1600 feet without
	brakes.
	Oh, without brakes.
	With brakes.
	It was a 26,000 pound airplane.
	We could stop at about 600, 700 feet.
	Have you not consulted with the FAA in your career?
	Yes, I have.
	You have.
	What would they say about taking off in such a condition?
	Yeah, I'm sure a lot of stories like that get told, too.
	Well, you know, it's strange, Art, but this story grew out of bounds to where it just became an impossible tale, and what I told you was just what happened.
	Well, I appreciate your honesty, really.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Martin Caden.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Glenn, WFOI, St.
	Augustine.
	St.
	Augustine, Florida.
	Yes, sir.
	Back when I was a kid, 1936 through 1940, there was a lot of talk about gremlins.
	One picture I've seen depicted, it was like a gargoyle or something sitting out on the wingtip of an E-47 or an F4U Corsair.
	There was a lot of talk back then about it.
	Well, I know I've seen... Well, the Gremlins were supposed to be the invisible apparitions that took care of all the troubles that occurred in our airplanes.
	They were called the Gremlins.
	They were Foo Fighters on the ground and in the air.
	But what they were... They were mainly a tongue-in-cheek approach to it.
	And, uh... What exactly?
	Now, a lot of people have heard the term Foo Fighters.
	What are Foo... What were or are Foo Fighters?
	Well, there was no such thing as a Foo Fighter.
	These were electrical phenomena, mainly A collection of electrical forces that would coalesce and then would be attracted by all the electrical emanations of an aircraft, fly alongside it, meld into an electrical arc over the propellers, and sometimes go right through the ship and not hurt anything.
	Or they would sometimes get in a cabin and explode and scare the hell out of everybody, but didn't do any damage.
	So a build-up of static electricity, really?
	Basically, yes.
	Okay, um, back, uh, back to the phones.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Martin Caden.
	Hi.
	Hello there.
	Is this our bell?
	Yes, you're on the air, sir.
	Oh, great.
	Yeah.
	Something's been bothering me for about 20 years or so.
	Where are you?
	Oh, I'm in Alaska.
	Anchorage.
	Anchorage, Alaska, right?
	Right.
	Yeah, I used to live in Ramey Air Force Base, Puerto Rico.
	It's my understanding that that base is closed now.
	But I was basically a service brat.
	And one day I was standing out in my front yard with my dad and a friend of mine.
	There was like a yellow star, you know, at about 30 degrees.
	Um, oh, let's see, which direction would that be?
	That would be toward the east of the island.
	And my friend said, hey, it's moving.
	So I told him, you know, run home and get his telescope, right?
	And so he ran home to get his telescope, and my dad was watching this with me.
	You could hear the fighter plane scrambling on the flight line.
	Back then I think they had voodoos and phantoms.
	And within about 15 to 20 seconds, that object had moved from the eastern horizon all the way to the western horizon and was headed out into orbit.
	And I talked to my dad about that about, oh gosh, 18 or 20 years later.
	And he wouldn't say a word to me about it.
	He didn't even blink.
	So I figured, you know, he had been debriefed or something.
	And I've never run into anybody who has ever... It was in the newspapers, and the military had said that it was a meteorite.
	And I was wondering if anybody had heard anything about that.
	That was back and about.
	1960-07, I think it was.
	Right around in there.
	All right.
	Well, I don't know what can be said about that.
	It couldn't have been a meteorite because meteorites don't climb on them, number one.
	Yeah, they sure don't.
	They can be any color.
	Number two, what you saw and your dad saw, and I'm not putting you down with this at all, what you saw is exactly what you just described, and there's no other explanation for it without further information.
	Yeah.
	You're stuck with what you have, like many of us are.
	Unfortunately, 99.9% of the time, you're also stuck without a camera.
	You know, for all the lecturing I've done to people who call me with these stories, why didn't you have a camera?
	The only thing I've ever seen close up, Martin, I didn't have a camera.
	I still, to be honest with you, don't carry one around.
	It would be a burden.
	I don't Expect I may ever see anything like it again in my life.
	And so I'm not about to tote a camera around for the rest of my life.
	If you've got one handy, fine.
	But the odds of that are pretty slim.
	Nevertheless, there are photographs, Martin.
	There are?
	There are.
	And photographs that defy explanation.
	A much fewer photographs that defy explanation than you might possibly think are because I think we examined thousands of these photographs and we found a good 50% were fake, a good 25% were impossible to tell what they were, and the rest of them were just basically muddy and we couldn't tell what they were.
	That doesn't mean that we said no, there are no such things.
	It means that we weren't capable with our science and technology for identifying these things clearly and surely.
	Well, uh, perhaps not as good as the, uh, as the eye.
	In other words, you see an object, spherical, round, whatever in the sky, uh, with your eye, and you know what you're seeing.
	You take a picture of it, uh, and if it's dark, what you end up with is a light in the middle of the picture.
	Well, what does that mean?
	You got a light.
	You got a light.
	Exactly right.
	Stand by, Martin.
	We'll be right back to you.
	That's the problem I had.
	We were seeing lights out here pop over the mountain over near Area 51 for a long time.
	I got fed up with it.
	One night, I took my video camera out, and I set it on the porch, and I just let it.
	But there wasn't enough light.
	The video camera didn't like that.
	So I took some photographs of it.
	Well, I got them back, and I got exactly what I took.
	A light.
	Uh, albeit a moving light, but a light.
	And what does that mean?
	Nothing definitive.
	No question about it.
	We'll be, uh, right back.
	We all know information is what it's all about, and if you want to be plugged into the latest, hottest, hard data on UFOs, well, have I got something for you.
	Please get a pen and paper.
	It's called UFO News World Report, and it's just brimming with the kind of info you've been looking for.
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	Find out what's happening.
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	Call 1-800-830-9830.
	By the way, to my board op down in L.A., thanks for the facts.
	for $24.95 to BOTS 2757 Anaheim, California 92814. It's guaranteed you'll love it or your
	money back. Call 1-800-830-9830. By the way, to my board up down in L.A., thanks for the
	facts. He knows the way I feel about Shannon Dougherty. If you suffer from headaches, neck
	aches, sports injuries, whatever, there is relief on the way.
	You know, that really doesn't do it justice.
	This is for everybody.
	And why nobody ever discovered it before?
	I don't know.
	Aspirin is great.
	It works.
	Frankly, I think it's better than a lot of the painkillers the doctor's likely to give you.
	It works better on actual pain.
	The others sort of make it dumb.
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	Back now to Martin Caton.
	Martin, are you there?
	I am.
	Alright, little time before the bottom of the hour, but let's take a couple of calls.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Martin Caden.
	Where are you, please?
	Cape Coral, Florida.
	Cape Coral.
	All right.
	Welcome.
	Hey, Art, I wonder if you'd guess to tell us anything about the Philadelphia Experiment.
	I will indeed ask.
	I do not have any faith in the reports on the Philadelphia Experiment.
	There's your straight answer.
	Okay, thank you.
	All right.
	You don't think it happened?
	You don't believe it?
	It sounds like an unlikely tale?
	I believe there was some experiment of some kind going on, but not what we heard and read about it.
	That was just going too far.
	Usually there's some sort of germ of truth to these big stories.
	Correct.
	But this one doesn't carry any weight.
	All right.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Martin Caden.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Marty up in Seattle.
	Yes, sir.
	I just wanted to ask him, I heard a report one time about a pilot that was flying over the hump during World War II, got into trouble and had to turn around and come back, and when he was making his big circle through the mountains, he saw a pyramid in the valley up there that was probably as large as the pyramid in Egypt, and I wondered if you'd heard anything about that.
	We've heard reports of pyramids and other structures, some pyramidal, All right, thank you.
	And I'm going to add a question to it.
	so often cover with clouds and mist that I would lend more credence to the stories that
	come out of there than anywhere else.
	I think it's a very definite possibility, although I have no proof to back up what I'm
	saying.
	Okay, thank you.
	All right, thank you.
	And I'm going to add a question to it.
	I've heard reports, Martin, from some people that are knowledgeable regarding flights over
	the pole areas, Greenland and the pole areas.
	where all of a sudden they reach an area bereft of ice or snow where it definitely ought to be covered.
	And there's been some recent satellite imagery also showing something like that.
	You heard any rumors or mythology about something like that?
	Especially in Antarctica, yes.
	You have?
	There are areas where the shorelines beneath the ice should have been completely frozen
	and when they went down they found, they put down probes, they found that the temperature went up instead of down.
	And the areas were not ice and they've even found evidence of plant life down there.
	They didn't know for a while whether it was ancient or whether it was recent.
	It turns out that some of it is recent.
	Isn't that odd?
	It's not so much odd as it is unusual because...
	We know so little about the area.
	When you think about Antarctica, you have to realize it's the world's biggest desert.
	Well, that's true.
	So, that's a hell of a lot of territory.
	It is.
	All right, Martin.
	Hold on.
	We'll be right back to you.
	Anybody wanting to fax in a question?
	It's area code 702-727-8499.
	8499.
	I'm Art Bell.
	I'm Art Bell.
	My guest, Martin Caden.
	If it's got anything to do with aircraft and odd and unusual occurrences, he's your man.
	This is Dreamland.
	This is TRN and CBC, talk radio network and Chancellor Broadcasting Company, home of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	A lot of people think that to appreciate culture, you've got to enjoy things like this.
	For this, in early Mesopotamia, evidence of the first audit exists in the form of lists on clay tablets.
	A lot of people respond to those things like this.
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	Now, once again, let's join Crash Dummies Vince and Larry as the steering wheel turns.
	When we last left our dummies, Vince was suffering from amnesia.
	Vince!
	Vince, it's me, Larry!
	Larry who?
	Don't you remember, pal, how we remind people to wear their safety belts?
	Gosh, maybe he's taken out one too many telephone poles.
	Suddenly, there was a knock at their car door.
	Who are you?
	I'm Vince's long lost sister here to drum up painful childhood traumas that will hopefully jog his memory.
	Like what?
	I don't know.
	Here, try hitting him with this.
	Larry!
	Vince!
	A fender to the forehead works every time.
	So Vince, do you remember everything?
	Well, I remember people aren't listening, so we've got to tell them to buckle up.
	Yeah?
	I remember safety belts save lives.
	Anything else?
	I remember you owe me $20.
	Tune in next time when Vince says... Thanks for helping me, pal.
	Vince, don't thank me.
	Thank your sister.
	But Larry, I don't have a sister.
	Brought to you by the Ad Council and the Department of Transportation.
	On November 11th, after a Girl Scout meeting, Troop Leader Leanne Graham takes her three children to her sister's house for a visit.
	Walt Burnett goes to a friend's apartment and starts drinking.
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	An appeal to intervene from the Ad Council, the Department of Transportation, and this station.
	October 14th, 1987.
	A small child has been lost in an abandoned well in Midland, Texas.
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	A message from the Education Excellence Partnership and the Ad Council.
	When a beer commercial ends, everyone's happy, and they're jumping around, and they're whatever.
	The thing is, is they not only have appealing activities, they have appealing people out there, too.
	You know, you see beer commercials, and it's done with natural water, and it's cold-brewed, or heat-pasteurized, and all that kind of stuff.
	They make it sound more like a health food, almost.
	But they never show the hangovers, or alcoholism, or anything like that.
	And then in reality, you're happy, and then you're vomiting in the bathroom, and then you're waking up sick the next morning with a really bad headache.
	Any person that says that beer is made for recreational use is stupid, because it's a form of alcohol.
	They just want your money.
	It's the people that sell the product that are getting the most out of it, not the people that use it.
	That's exactly what they're doing there.
	They're all, sell our beer, and it doesn't matter what it takes, just sell it.
	No, they're not honest messages.
	They don't show the flip side of it, the results of alcohol.
	A public service message from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
	Beep.
	Beep.
	If you enjoyed Dreamlands Weekly News segments by Linda Moulton Howe, which features updates
	about mysterious phenomena, then you might want to know more about her books and documentaries.
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	You can dial 1-800-707-9993 to order.
	That's 1-800-707-9993.
	Alright, there you are.
	07 99 93 to order that's 1 800 707 9993.
	All right there you are and we are going to now ask Martin to again his book is
	Ghosts of the Air and I'd like him to be able to give the number again.
	So, give the number again, Martin.
	Right, that's 1-800-777-3454.
	How much?
	How much?
	$20.
	$20.
	Uh, one, and give the number one more time.
	thirty four fifty four
	how much how much twenty dollars
	twenty dollars uh... one and uh... and give the number one more time
	everybody's asking eight hundred
	777-3454.
	All right, there you are.
	All right, could you please ask Martin about all the many UFO sightings near and over Mexico City?
	Oh, this is true.
	He goes on, I read a report that a UFO hit the landing gear of an airliner while it was making its descent for landing at Mexico City.
	Very good show, he says.
	Yes, I also heard that report, and hundreds of thousands of people have been seeing UFOs in Mexico, Martin.
	Anything on that?
	Yeah, and I think it's more of a mass effect of people's minds gathering an ability to see things that may or may not be there.
	If somebody hit the gear of an ocean liner, where the hell is the photograph?
	It's true.
	Well, there never was one.
	Actually though, Martin, I do have some photographs of these UFOs supposedly in Mexico.
	No, I've seen them too, Art.
	My point was, if the airliner was hit, there has to be a complete record of the incident that took place.
	That's true.
	And there should be photographs showing what damage was sustained or not.
	Look, one of the things that always gets me about these reports, and I want to make it clear, I've chased what I call UFOs.
	In jet fighters and other planes.
	And in all the reports on UFOs, and they usually report these things, go off the radar screen at 4,500 miles an hour, or can be seen being tracked, but not once, not one single time, has there ever been mention of a sonic boom of something doing 4,500 miles an hour at low altitude, and at as flat as possible.
	That'd be a big boom.
	It'd knock down a building.
	Well, I'll tell you a little secret, Martin.
	I took a very special Concorde.
	They're going to hate me for telling this story.
	I took a very special Concorde flight from Las Vegas.
	The Concorde does not frequently come west.
	Right.
	And I went to Paris.
	Now, as we traversed the United States in the Concorde, we had to stay subsonic.
	Right.
	By law.
	Well, somewhere along the line I was sitting next to the press relations guy and they've got a mock meter on the Concorde.
	You can sit there and watch it from your seat.
	And we were out over the Midwest someplace or another and apparently some commercial airliner was above or below or roughly on the same course and toyed a bit with the Concorde and the pilot couldn't resist And all of a sudden, we all saw the mock meter go to 1.01, 1.02, and we definitely broke the sound barrier over the Midwest, and we weren't supposed to.
	And I asked the press relations guy about it, and he told me the story about the commercial airliner, because I hadn't seen it, and he said, we're probably going to get fined for that.
	Don't tell anybody.
	So, here I am not telling anybody.
	If nobody filed a complaint, there wouldn't be anything happening to it.
	Was it Concorde or did it climb at that time?
	No, it was not.
	Okay.
	That means that nobody complained.
	See, it's like living where we are down here in Florida.
	We're accustomed to sonic booms all the time.
	Every time the shuttle comes back from space, half our place gets knocked silly.
	You've got a 120-ton ship coming down through us at about 1,100 to 1,400 miles an hour, and we get the triple, we get the double booms all the time from the leading and trailing edge of the machine.
	Most of the complaints that take place, take place only because we've got some unhappy people out there.
	I understand.
	Or more unhappy than they are impressed by what we're able to do.
	So lacking a complaint and tracking it, they wouldn't get fined.
	Exactly.
	How about this one from Phoenix?
	During your many years of investigation into strange airplane phenomena, have you ever found any evidence which might shed some new light on the disappearance of Amelia Earhart?
	Negative.
	I believe she was lost because of very poor navigational procedures.
	Fred Noonan was not a good navigator, and he was a good drinker.
	And that was one of the main problems of that Lockheed 12, the small Electra.
	And that's a tiny airplane for an incredibly big ocean.
	Okay, this one.
	Art, interesting stuff.
	Would you please ask your guest if he's noticed A higher percentage of strange occurrences during times of intense military conflict rather than peaceful periods.
	Absolutely.
	Why do you think that would be?
	Because of the energy being expended both in munitions and the movement of all these different forces.
	You can't move an army without generating a field of electricity, without generating an energy field all about you.
	It's just like a small ship going through the ocean compared to the Queen Mary.
	One's going to raise hell as it goes through the water, and all they're doing is simply going straight ahead.
	Alright, uh, and this.
	Take a commercial pilot today.
	If he sees something like a UFO, I mean, remember close encounters.
	Do you want to report one of those?
	I don't want to report one of those things.
	That's right.
	The question is, what does a pilot face when he reports a UFO?
	Usually the loss of his job.
	Well then, I wouldn't want to be reporting one of those either.
	That's why the only guys who do report him are the ones who do not suffer any consequences for that report.
	Usually when they're retired, when it doesn't matter anymore and even then it's hard to get, I'm sure.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Martin Caden.
	I have a question, but first can I say, one of your guests had talked about the Bermuda Triangle and he said that I think an asteroid hit in that area and It was a magnetic force that was pulling these planes into the sea.
	I don't know.
	Remember that?
	Vaguely.
	Well anyway, then my question is, Martin, could you give us more info on non-lethal weapons and also how ELF waves can be used as weapons?
	The ELF waves?
	ELF waves, yes.
	Extremely low frequency stuff.
	That's between 16 and 30 Hertz.
	Right.
	That's the same frequency on which the Earth itself broadcasts.
	What it does is to render the human being unable to think clearly.
	He loses his judgment and he gets immediately some sort of vertigo, which makes him helpless flying his airplane.
	About 16 helicopters have been subjected to very low frequency or extremely low frequency radio waves Uh, from experimental radio, uh, towers, and all have crashed.
	So, this happens to be true.
	Oh, my.
	Nice weapon.
	Uh, west of the Rockies, you're on the air with Martin Caden.
	Hi.
	Hello, there.
	No, east of the Rockies, you're on the air with Martin Caden.
	Good evening.
	How you doing?
	This is Skye in New Orleans.
	Hi, Skye.
	How you doing, Mr. Caden?
	Good evening.
	Uh, well, two, uh, quick, uh, questions.
	First one is, uh, why don't you explain about the, uh, Uh, the electric, uh, fighters, uh, Foo Fighters.
	Is that the same as St.
	Elmo's Fire?
	It is very much the same.
	St.
	Elmo's Fire and Foo Fighters are both manifestations of the same, uh, unusual electrical condition.
	Okay, and then the other thing was, anything in the air involving, say, uh, airborne troops under canopy, such as maybe pilots, you know, that are bailed out in distress, or Military, civilian, otherwise, of that nature?
	I mean, I didn't get your question as to what happened to them.
	Has there been any kind of unexplained phenomenon involving people who have bailed out?
	Sightings, or even with airborne troops that you know were supposed to be, you know, in the air under canopy.
	I don't know of any like that, but I'd like to tell one of my own, which is putting my neck on the line.
	Sure, go ahead.
	Three of us were flying back from California to the Cape, And we were in a Piper Rastek.
	And, uh, next to me was Eddie Keyes, who flew in Burma in World War II.
	And the NASA engineer was behind us in the backseat.
	He was asleep.
	We were flying along at 8,000 feet in a clear night, and suddenly Eddie says to me, uh, Marty, turn right.
	So I turned to Eddie and said, what the hell?
	Oh, we're going out to Wichita.
	That's straight ahead of us.
	He said, I didn't say anything.
	I said, come on, you just told me to turn right.
	He said, I thought you did.
	Both looked at each other, both tramped our right foot down on the right rudder pedal, hauled the yoke over, poured the coal to it, and got the hell out of there as fast as we could.
	And about 20 seconds later, we saw a bright light coming down from the sky rapidly.
	So we pulled the nose up and killed as much of our power as we could and still had control.
	And right where we would have been in the next 20 or 30 seconds, a giant meteor went screaming down through the sky and exploded on the ground.
	Wow!
	You can tell me, or anybody else, there's no such thing as a warning like this, but we were there, and this is what happened to us, and if we hadn't made that right turn, I wouldn't be talking to you now.
	Wow, is all I can say to that story.
	Hold on, Martin.
	And I mean wow.
	You know, so much of what he says, in debunking what otherwise others might jump on, makes a story like that so credible.
	Angels in the Air?
	I wonder if maybe that'd be a good title for a book, Angels in the Air.
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	In a moment, back to Martin Caden.
	What a fascinating program this has been.
	Stay right there.
	Hey, you don't have to put up with it.
	I know a lot of you do, but you don't have to.
	What am I talking about?
	Hard water.
	Hard water spots on glassware, windows in your car, that crusty ring in your toilet bowl, hard to remove soap film on shower doors, frozen valves on faucets, hard scale buildup in your water heater costing you extra money, about $275 a year, Just to heat the water.
	Well, I don't have those problems.
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	Call the folks at 1-800-406-0GMX.
	By the way, they're celebrating their second year on the Art Bell Program, so if you order now, they'll send you a copy of my new book absolutely free.
	Call 1-800-406-0GMX, order today.
	That's 1-800-406-0GMX, anytime, day or night.
	Very sad about that, actually.
	My first printing is done.
	So you can't order my book, except that is through GMX.
	Very sad.
	It's all sold out, so I guess I'm glad and sad.
	There will be a second printing, and I'll be letting you know about that.
	What do you think of a book title of Angels of the Air, or Air Angels, or something like that?
	Because that sounds like what you met up with up there.
	It does, and there have been some titles with that effect, but not by those.
	I intend to do another book on these, and basically going to the Angels, because I'm a very hard-headed, mechanistic individual, and I should be the last one in the world that I know who believes in such things, and I do believe in them.
	Unless they happen to you.
	That's right, because they have happened so many times now.
	There's no way that anyone has convinced me that all the things I've gotten out of, I did by myself.
	I didn't.
	I had help.
	I don't know where it came from, but sometimes it was more than one hand on a stick.
	And an airplane was pulled out of something bad, and I've gotten to accept this, and it just gives me a great feeling to know that it's there.
	You've been flying a long time, Martin.
	Do you still fly?
	Yes, I do.
	You do.
	A lot of pilots that flew in Vietnam, and that's my era, had kind of a weird sort of Feeling after a while that their number was close to being up.
	And a lot of times, I'm sorry to say, they were right.
	In other words, they would fly and fly almost fearlessly.
	But then they would begin to feel that time was running out or their number was about to come up.
	It almost was.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	And so are you comforted by the feeling that your number isn't going to come up that way?
	I don't know if I'm comforted by it, but I certainly believe it.
	I've been flying for 54 years, and I haven't scratched an airplane yet.
	Thank you.
	After hearing that one takeoff, about that one takeoff, I can't imagine why, but it is miraculous, that's for sure.
	Every word you just said, I deserved.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Martin Caden.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I had a story that I wanted to relate.
	I wanted to see if First of all, if you had ever heard of the story.
	All right, where are you?
	Peoria, Illinois.
	All right.
	We were living down in, in fact, I just moved to Austin, Texas back in 1983.
	And my father, I'm a musician, he was kind of showing me around to some of the night spots and stuff.
	And we went out kind of early one afternoon, right around rush hour.
	And this is in broad daylight.
	And my father had just made it to the parking lot to the car.
	I was about halfway to the car and my step-mom had just come out of the apartment and my father had looked up.
	We heard a really loud roar and he had looked up and there was this huge white light that seemed to really be blazing and it was coming right towards us and my dad's first reaction and he was the serviceman and also the chief inspector for the city of Pekin.
	You'd had quite a bit of experience with just the nature of things that I didn't know about.
	And he thought that it was a jet crashing.
	And it looked as though it were coming right toward us, right over 183, which is a main drag through Austin.
	And as I say, it was rush hour.
	The traffic was packed.
	Let me break in and ask you a question.
	Did this vehicle suddenly disappear without any further sighting?
	Well, what it actually did, it came down and hit the trunk line.
	It was that close to the ground.
	It hit the trunk line on the power line, and it was huge.
	It seemed to be as big as a house.
	And it hit the trunk lines and very slowly moved over the traffic about a car, maybe every two or three seconds, moved all the way to the end of the trunk line.
	The trunk line was burned out completely down through Austin.
	It was hanging off the telephone poles.
	Wow!
	We went out and we were so shook up my dad said stand still in the grass and he got in the car and he felt he told me later that he felt like he was safe from being electrocuted because of the tires on the car and my stepmother had almost grabbed an iron rot staircase and he said don't touch the staircase and this thing made the hair it was like a Maybe a half a block from us.
	We watched it go right by us, very slowly and very clearly.
	Everybody on 183 saw it.
	And it made the hair stand up and the skin tingle on our bodies.
	Alright, well, we're going to hold it there.
	You know, it sounds like a ground version of Foo Fighter, doesn't it?
	It does, and I will say this.
	I've never heard a report like that one before, and I have no answer for it.
	Good honest answer.
	Wow, that's a weird story.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Martin Caden.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Tom from Reno.
	Hi, Tom.
	Pleasure to talk to Mr. Caden.
	I met him down in Melbourne Beach when he did a book signing for his Natural or Supernatural book that had the story.

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