Martin Caidin and Art Bell explore eerie aviation anomalies, from Malaysia’s October 18th UFO sighting near Kuala Lumpur to Argentina’s October 5th saucer with violet lights and scorched earth. Caidin’s Ghosts in the Air details WWII cases—Spitfires joined by biplanes, a B-24 crew finding a missing sergeant on Green Island via a mother’s map, and a B-17 with dead crew landing mysteriously. He dismisses military holograms but suggests Area 51’s antimatter-powered craft or VTOL drones explain some UFO reports, like the 1947 Fort Knox disc that killed Captain Mantel. Infrared photos capture ghostly figures invisible to humans, hinting at forces beyond conventional science—whether extraterrestrial, interdimensional, or still unknown. [Automatically generated summary]
But so that our Dreamland listeners will understand, I had told you that I cringe every time someone says I'm an expert in any one of these mysteries where we don't have any bottom-line answers and that I am fundamentally a journalist trying to get to the bottom and report facts.
Well, listen, this week I have been getting stories about anomalous phenomena from all over the place.
Reuters News reported October 18th that crowds of people in a small village south of Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia have reported a huge object in the air, and this was the, quote, as big as a football field and several stories high, encircled by flashing red, orange, and green lights, unquote.
The Malaysian Air Force, however, said that they have nothing in their air defense screens to indicate a UFO had violated Malaysian airspace, unquote.
But that is almost the standard government line now about UFO sightings anywhere in the world.
Earlier in October on the 5th, a Buenos Aires, Argentina video cameraman named Gerardo Ferrero taped 15 minutes of a huge saucer-shaped object that appeared with violet, red, and green lights.
And according to the American reporter in Hollywood, quote, the Argentine Air Force has examined the video after also finding a jelly-like substance and scorched earth marks at the San Carlos de Barrarchi airport several miles southeast of Buenos Aires.
Earlier this week, one of our Dreamland listeners called me literally from the site of an animal mutilation, he thought.
He was using his cell phone while standing next to a dead bull in Rio Dosa, New Mexico, about 45 miles east of Roswell.
He said he listens to me on Dreamland, has gotten my books and videos, and he says, Linda, this looks exactly like the photographs.
He said that there are sections of hide and genitals had been removed, and we had him get in touch with the sheriff's office, and he collected grass samples from around the body, which biophysicist W.C. Leavengood in Michigan will examine.
And for those Friday who may have watched 2020, Dr. Leavengood was featured in one of the segments about some of his work.
And I'll follow up with him on the grass samples not only from this mutilation, but some others that we're studying now.
And right after the New Mexico call, I received another report from a CBS affiliate television reporter in Chico, California.
Two mutilated cows were found in the same pasture about 900 feet apart on Monday, October 16th.
The ranch is halfway between Alturas, California and Reno, Nevada, an area that I've had several UFO eyewitness reports from the past year and that we've talked about on Dreamland.
Sheriff Ronald Jorrell's office issued a press release to the news media this time and said, quote, the death of these animals is being considered suspicious in nature as some of these animals' body parts were missing.
At the present, we do not have suspects and this matter will continue To be investigated, unquote.
One of the cows was lying in 18-inch high grass on moist soil, but there were no tracks, no signs of struggle, no downed grass anywhere around the body of that cow.
The strangely cut cow shocked state brand inspector J.D. Temple.
unidentified
The thing that really dropped me, too, is that the predators didn't disturb these carcasses at all.
Now, not only have there been those mutilations in the Chico, California area, or actually between Alturas and Reno, but I have received information that more than a dozen cattle have been reported to the Washington County Sheriff's Office in Missouri, mutilated the same kinds of strange bloodless excisions.
And the Sheriff's Office has gone so far to report to the Independent Journal newspaper there, quote, we're not trying to scare anyone, but we really don't know what it is, and we'd certainly like to find out, unquote.
These are some of the most refreshing comments from sheriff's offices that I've seen in the last decade or so.
Well, I think that Bud Hopkins' work in terms of the abduction syndrome and focusing on the harvest of ovum and tissue there relates possibly to the mutilation because animals have genitals and internal sexual organ areas removed.
And it could very well be that Bud's hypothesis is the context in which we might think about this, that something is harvesting genetic material from our planet to be used to create other things.
And when you get to that question, what and why, I don't think Bud or I or anyone could say that we really have any real idea beyond the possibility of these hybrid suggestions.
And some abductees think that biological androids are being constructed by another intelligence for use, just like we might have robots, I suppose.
And who knows what that bigger picture is, but the fact is, are this phenomena continues around us?
And I hope more and more people are going to pay attention.
I think it's important.
And I'm going to let the Missouri and the California sheriff's offices know about each other's similar incidents because that's one of the problems.
Isolated localities don't know what's going on in other localities.
And I'll give our phone numbers out at the end of this report, but I'd like to share one more interesting thing because in addition to new animal mutilations, unusual circles and ovals have been found in at least two United States cornfields this fall.
Both formations have been about 55 feet in diameter.
One was discovered in Bad Axe, Michigan, and another near Arlington, Iowa in August.
And I just learned about it and talked to the farmers today, Mr. Ray Camper and his wife, and it's a very interesting story.
And then when it gets to the center, it was what color?
unidentified
Well, it was kind of down, like it's been, well, like the safe storage or something.
It was but just the base layer of thick were that way.
Underneath?
Underneath it was green yet then.
It was just like one layer of thick.
It looked like the corn in the center was down first, and then they put the corn in from the center, and then they got several layers thick right in the center then.
Well, first I'll start with the address for people who would like to just talk confidentially, and that's Post Office Box 538 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
That's H-U-N-T-I-N-G-D-O-N Valley P-A.
And the zip code is 19006.
I'll have a toll-free 800 number for book and video information.
It has a short link on it, but also for anybody in California or Ohio or Missouri or Michigan or anywhere now where anomalous phenomena may be occurring, you could call and leave your phone number on that 800 line, and I will get back to you.
And for those of you out there with faxes, I'm at Area Code 215-491-9842.
And I look forward to the reports.
And I think, Art, that we have a growing network with our Dreamland audience when a guy will call me from his cell phone standing right next to a mutilated bull in New Mexico.
Linda Howe, and always good to have her on the program.
Investigative journalist, Emmy Award-winning TV producer.
There you go, Linda.
Many of you people who know about health know about pycnoginals.
It is a strange name.
It is an antioxidant.
So is vitamin C. Now, vitamin C helps avoid cancer, strokes, heart attacks, increases life expectancy, an average of five years.
It's not what I say.
It's what the scientists at UCLA say.
Now, pycnoginols carry about 20 times the batting power of vitamin C when it comes to fighting free radicals.
Little tiny nanotechnological ginzu knives tumbling through your bloodstream doing damage as they go.
That's my analogy.
Free radicals are not good for you.
They give you premature wrinkling, degenerative disease, circulatory disorders.
You get the idea.
Want to fight them?
Pycnoginals are the way health naturally is the company that sells them.
If you would like to inquire or buy, these are, by the way, 95% pure grapeseed extract.
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That's 1-800-856-1119.
How many of you remember a time when you could take a penny to the Cornic grocery store and there you could buy a nice piece of candy or even a postcard?
Well, of course, today the convenience stores have a bowl of pennies on the counter with a sign that usually says take one if you need one.
Can the dollar be far behind?
unidentified
You know, you really can't buy anything for a penny anymore.
And what it will do is to record three hours of a talk show on one side.
That's right, one side, I said, of a 90-minute cassette.
There is nothing like it.
It's called Real Talk.
And it's remarkable.
AM-FM.
It is, of course, digital.
It's got timers.
It will start and stop when you tell it to.
It's got 10 memory presets.
It operates on battery, so you can take it with you or AC power.
Works just fine with the select antenna.
And as I said, its big feature is it'll record three hours of a talk show on one side of a 90-minute tape.
Price $139.95.
Very, very hard to keep in stock.
And we won't have them very long.
So, you had better let your fingers do the walking in the morning at about 7.30, I would say.
Call the C-Crane Company and get real talk on the way.
The magic number is 1-800-522-8863.
1-800-522-8863.
There has never been a book quite like Ghosts of the Air.
The telling of strange and wonderful true events.
I said true.
The stories related in this book don't leave any room for argument about what the people have seen and encountered.
The author, those involved in these events, know what they have experienced is real.
There are events witnessed in that halfway region, somewhere between heaven and earth, that defy all rational explanation.
For years, author and pilot, Martin Caden, has collected these strange but true stories of aerial hauntings from pilots and astronauts.
His conclusion is simple.
There is something out there.
Martin Caden is a professional pilot, a veteran of World War II.
He has been an FAA examiner, a teacher, lecturer, researcher, and instructor in Get This Telekinetics.
A bionics researcher and developer, the $6 million man, remember that?
Is based on his novel, Cyborg.
So the man has a lot of experience.
Let us go, I believe, to Florida and, oh, wait a minute, let's do it this way.
I believe to Florida and say, hello, Martin Caden, are you there?
Martin Caden, you're not there.
Well, I've had a lot of trouble with this lately.
So what we will do is simply take an additional break and get Martin back on the line.
Somehow or another, someway, these things simply seem to occur, so we'll take care of this and we'll be right back.
Hey, you don't have to put up with it.
I know a lot of you do, but you don't have to.
What am I talking about?
Hard water?
Hard water spots on glassware, windows in your car.
That crusty ring in your toilet bowl.
Hard to remove soap film on shower doors, frozen valves on faucets, hard-scale buildup in your water heater costing you extra money, about $275 a year, just to heat the water.
Well, I don't have those problems.
I've got GMX water conditioning in my home for over a year now.
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You've got nothing to lose except that ugly white stuff.
Call the folks at 1-800-4060-GMX.
By the way, they're celebrating their second year on the Art Bell program, so if you order now, they'll send you a copy of my new book absolutely free.
Call 1-800-4060-GMX.
Order today.
That's 1-800-4060-GMX anytime, day or night.
By the way, the first printing of my book is Out, Out, Gone, History.
And you actually cannot order it right now.
So GMX, I think, are the only people that have copies of it at the moment.
All right, now, let us go, I think, to Florida.
Had that been an airplane we were just in, we'd have been in very little pieces on the ground.
The thing would be dismissed completely out of hand and immediately, except for one thing.
There are too many witnesses to the haunting events or the spirits that take place in the airplane.
And one that can't be put aside is that a new student was aboard the airplane, same kind of a 747, and she was down in the lower lobe galley.
That's where they do the preparation of food for that type of aircraft.
And my wife is also a premier flight attendant for American Airlines.
So I get to a lot of these airplanes.
Now, the girl was down in the galley alone and looked up at the mirror and saw the reflection of the dead pilot, and she had never seen his face before, but she recognized him from photographs.
And he looked at her and said, this aircraft or this type of aircraft will never again crash.
Which is a pretty hard statement to make and even harder to believe because many crashes are out of our hands completely.
But she went upstairs and refused ever to come back down again into the galley.
Now that's what happened with this one particular airplane.
You were told this by your friend for one reason.
He knew you.
If you had been a stranger or a newsman, per se, without knowing him, I assure you he never would have spoken to you about this.
Well, we got that point out of the way immediately.
So what happens when an event takes place and the pilots know what's happened to a grave deal and some of which they don't know, the newspapers come out with stories that all conflict with each other because everybody is grabbing in the dark.
And that's why the newsmen stay away from these people.
I've been interviewed and misquoted enough times to sink a ship.
Besides that, it's proven, Martin, when there's a big news event and the news people have no news whatsoever, they finally will, in desperation, turn to interviewing and misquoting each other.
Which is actually a bad joke right down the damn line.
Yeah, I agree with you.
But this goes on.
This is how Ghosts of the Air was written.
I've been flying for 54 years, and I began to collect these stories that were being told by different pilots whom I knew quite well, some of which I didn't know that well, but I was sworn to secrecy on the stories they told me with the events and their names and what happened to them.
And I kept my promise to them until I decided I had enough stories to do a book where everybody could be identified as to who they were, so long as I had their permission.
So I went back to all these pilots or their families, got their permission in writing, and then began to put the book together.
They only did for one reason, because I went on a hook also by explaining some of the things that had happened to me in the air and with or without other people around.
Because I put my name on a line and put my neck on a line and they have been reading my stuff for years and I've flown with many of them.
You just named all of them that are included, plus more.
The point to make is that the book is not on UFOs and ghosts.
It's Ghosts of the Air because we now have infrared and other film camera proof of entities that are almost transparent.
But the book is a collection of things that have happened that seem to be impossible.
Some involve the airplanes, some involve people, some involve people coming out of the midst of time, some involve World War I fighters, for example, in the Battle of Britain.
There was a group of British fighter planes, Spitfires and hurricanes, diving on a formation of Heichel 111s during the Battle of Britain.
Suddenly, in the midst of the British fighters, a SC-5A and several other biplane fighters of World War I dove through the British formation and at well over 350 miles an hour, which should have torn the wings right off those airplanes, which were fabric and wood.
And these World War I fighters went right through the British formation, attacked the German bombers below them, broke up their formation, because they all scattered, and then the fighters went on down and pretty well cleaned up that enemy force.
Now, how do we believe that this happened?
There were about 50 British pilots, all officers and sergeants, who all swore and signed sworn affidavits that this is what they saw and this is what happened.
So they didn't care if anybody believed them or not.
The best part of this was that on the same day, a force of German fighters were attacking British fighters and coming down from high altitude.
And in this case, there were Messerschmitts mainly making the attack.
And suddenly in the midst of the Messerschmitts and outspeeding them, were Foker fighters, were Halberstadts, and different German fighters of World War I that did the same thing that the British fighters did.
They outsped them, attacked the British formations, broke them up, and the Germans scored heavily against their enemy on this particular day.
And when the airplanes all broke up into battle and separated, all the World War I airplanes were nowhere to be found.
But there were several that were shot down by, or were shooting down some of the World War II planes.
And those pilots remembered they're being attacked, and their airplanes were set on fire and they bailed out.
There's another one in the museum up in Ohio where they have a V-24 bomber for World War II.
It's just called the Strawberry Bitch.
And the airplane is still in pretty good condition.
It flew about 70 missions of World War II.
And they used to report strange lights in the museum at night when there were no lights turned on.
And so they went into the museum and hid during the day and waited until night.
And sure enough, in the nose of the B-24, which was closed and nobody was in the airplane, a light began to appear.
And these men were armed and moved toward the nose of the B-24.
And in the nose section where the bombardier would sit, all glassed in, appeared a bright light, and they saw a man sitting on the bombardier's seat.
And they all spoke to him and said, we don't know what you're doing up there, but come on down.
And that's an order.
And he smiled at them and he said, I was killed in this airplane.
Your guns mean nothing to me.
And he faded out of sight.
There were seven witnesses to this.
So that was another one taking place like that.
There are cases like this that just went on and on and on.
Airplanes that disappeared in World War I, usually a B-E-8, Bristol, there was one where a British air marshal in World War II, in the beginning of the Battle of Britain, was flying along the coast of England, along the eastern coast, saw an old biplane in front of him and immediately pursued it.
Now, old biplanes are not that unusual because people rebuild airplanes and training airplanes and biplanes as well.
So he finally caught up to the, almost caught up to the bristle and noticed it was a World War I model.
He figured somebody had rebuilt it.
So he started closing in distance and suddenly the bristle, the upper wings collapsed.
The airplane burst into flames and tumbled to the ground.
He landed on a golf course.
People were running up to the airplane and the airplane was now demolished, mainly burned wreckage, and the pilot was dead.
Strange thing about this particular event was that the pilot in World War I had died the same way.
They found the records on the field.
The numbers on the airplane that had been seen in 1941 were the same numbers of the airplane in 1918.
And we're going to talk a little bit about the nature of time in just a moment.
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All right.
Well, maybe it's just getting close to Halloween, but these stories are beginning to get to me now.
Martin, I've had a number of people on this program that have talked about time and apparent slips in and out of time.
Absolutely, because we've also confirmed the slips in time and being able to measure them with cesium atomic timers, which could down to about, oh, two millionths to a second.
But I'll give you two cases, I think, three cases, which involved people as well.
In the Pacific theater in World War II, there was a B-24 outfit that was on a raid, and they were attacked by Japanese fighters.
The airplane, one of the B-24s was shot down.
Nobody saw it go down.
And the other planes got home.
And when the crews all gathered together, they said, well, let's go look for the airplane that may have landed on a small island somewhere because there are no Japanese reported in this area.
And this is a B-24 Liberator on the 13th Air Force.
These people went out again and looked for the bomber records and looked for the missing sergeant.
Nobody could find anything.
They went back to their base and there was a letter from the commanding officer from the missing sergeant's mother, of all things.
How she knew her son was missing, nobody knows to this day.
And she wrote him and said, I know my son is missing, I'm presumed dead, killed in action.
But he's not, he's alive.
And this is where you will find him.
And she drew a map that she sent to the B-24 outfit.
The map included an island, green island, that was not anywhere on the maps of the Air Force that used these for their navigation and bombing runs.
And the major who was in charge said, this is insane, but I can't leave this alone.
I've got to follow it.
How she knew her son was dead before they even knew it was just wild.
Long story short, they went out in the B-24s and they searched through the area.
They found nothing.
Then they went to the Navy and said, have you got any new charts of this area showing this island called Green Island?
Navy said they came in yesterday.
They went back out with the B-24s, found the island, and found the shed that this missing sergeant had made for himself and then died.
Or a Japanese force landed on the island, took him prisoner, or killed him.
But the fact that he was there and built the shed and stayed there and wrote messages in the sand, SOS, nobody figured out how his mother could have done.
Unfortunately, we're about at the top of the hour, which means you're going to get about a six-minute break, so it's probably a bad time to start, you know, start a new story.
Just as a matter of curiosity, very quickly, did you see the movie called The Langeliers on television?
So dial from 11 to 1 and listen from 2 to 4 at a regular time.
It's the all-new BQ view, sort of, on Central Illinois Talk Radio.
Talk 102.
A mystery of missing meteors.
I'm Bob Hershon, and this is Why Is It?
In popular legends, some craters are rumored to have been caused by alien spacecraft crashing into the Earth.
In fact, the craters do come from objects crashing in from outer space, comets and meteorites.
But what Isler Coates of Meadowley, Louisiana, wants to know is...
What happens to the meteors when they make the craters?
Good question.
I mean, they just didn't get up and walk away, did they?
I asked astronomer Andrew Fracknoy, a consultant for the Astronomical Society of the Pacific.
He explained that comets, which are mostly ice, usually just evaporate before they hit the ground.
All that's left to hit the Earth is a big shock wave, and that's still powerful enough to blast out a good-sized crater.
Meteorites, on the other hand, have more rock than ice in them.
Dr. Fracknoy explains that parts of them actually make it to the ground.
The less icy and more rocky it is, the more of it is likely to be found.
But again, you have to remember, even if they make it down to the ground, the impact will break them apart, vaporize a lot of them, so that it's very rare that the chunk that comes to the Earth from space resembles its original form by the time we see it on the ground.
So you might find fragments of the meteorites that caused a crater.
Just don't expect to be too impressed.
And if you've got a science question, just dial 1-800-WHY ISIT.
We'll try to impress you with our answer.
For the American Association for the Advancement of Science, I'm Bob Hirshon on the Mutual Broadcasting System.
This is Talk 102.
WTAZ.
Morton Peoria.
Central Illinois'Talk Radio.
WTAZ.
Mutual News.
Game two of the World Series goes to the home team, Atlanta.
The Braves have made it two in a row by 4-3 over the Indians on a tie-breaking two-run homer by catcher Javi Lopez.
As varied as the world leaders gathered in New York are the protests against their policies, a virtual disunited nations of demonstrators is on the streets for the UN's birthday, among them protesters against Cuba's president.
Cuban-American Jose Aguilar says he can't understand why such a welcome for Castro.
How could people here think that he is so wonderful and a savior when he is a tyrant, a murderer?
He has ruled for 36 years, no free election.
The people there can't express their views like the people here.
Castro tonight took his pitch for lifting the economic embargo on Cuba to a church in Harlem.
He says Washington acts as though there is still a Cold War.
I'm Jan Johnson.
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We have a judge, Judge Ken Bacon from the Midwest.
And the best thing about Judge Bacon, of course, is his position as a top justice.
And he's also pilot.
Now, the judge was flying in the local area out in the big cornfield and grain fields and got caught by weather.
Didn't notice some bad weather coming in.
He could not make it back to his own field, which would have been dangerous.
So he began to look for a place to land and set the airplane down.
And as he was turning through one area, he saw a field below him that wasn't on his chart, a large concrete paved field.
And the weather was getting worse, so he started down.
Landed his airplane, shut off the engine, and began to go through a long row of hangars.
There was nobody there.
All the food in the mess halls was half eaten.
And sandwiches had bites taken out of them.
Lights were still on.
Power was still working.
The place was completely deserted.
He ghost airfield with about 150 aircraft on it, British aircraft.
And he couldn't get anybody on his radio, so he finally went back to his own plane when the weather began to change.
Climbed in his plane and flew back to his own home field.
Found a thin piece of straw run through a hard rubber tire and went into the main office and said, where the hell is this field?
They all turned to him and said, so it's happened to you, too.
There is no field there.
The only sign on the damn airport was some old farmer's field, and yet the airport was runway 6,000, 8,000 feet long and paved, concrete, and they all said to him, so it's happened to you too.
And he never did find that airfield again.
And he searched for it.
Now, the thing about Ken Bacon especially is that I believe you can get him on your show.
And if you call Galdy Press, which you know, of course, they can set it up.
But I take a moment just to put down, we've been getting calls on my other phones as to where they can get close to the air.
The best thing about Ken Bacon is the man is here, and that's that he literally flew over a field that appeared out of nowhere through time, was there for a while, and disappeared.
Now, we have no explanation for it except the fact that there are jumps in time.
There are fractures in the thin walls, or whatever it is that makes up the stuff of time.
Now, I've had this happen to me also, but I did want to tell you some other ones about Europe with some B-17 bombers, and I'll keep these as short as I can.
Sure.
One B-17 is coming back from a major raid on Germany.
The airplane is shot to hell.
It's barely able to fly on three engines.
One of them is burning, and a large formation is flying in and trying to keep up with the other airplanes so it'll have their firepower in case they're hit by any more German fighters.
In the meantime, they're being outstripped by the rest of the formation, and now they're alone in the air, and they keep going toward England.
A second engine dies, and the airplane keeps flying.
Third engine dies, fourth engine dies, and the B-17 is now maintaining the same speed as the main formation, and there are no engines running.
When it reaches its home field, all the airplanes peel off of their landing patterns, including this B-17, which is being watched now by more than 2,000 men.
The airplane goes through the complete circuit of the field, drops its flaps, landing gear, sets up everything for landing, and the people are all staying away from it and firing flares, and the airplane lands.
When it lands, it taxis to its parking area, the tie-down area, and the engines stop.
Although they've been running all this time, no one knew how because there's no fuel in the damn airplane.
So the crews come out and they tell all the men on the field, stay here, we want witnesses to this.
The ground crews go out, open the hatch, climb aboard, and there are 10 dead men aboard that B-17.
Now, I got this, by the way, from the combat files of the 8th Air Force when I went to Alabama some time ago to research this material.
Now, when they took the 10 bodies out of the airplane, it burst into flames without fuel aboard, and the airplane burned to the ground and just melted metal.
That's one B-17 that did that.
There were more of these that happened all through the war, and in each case, the military got the enlisted men and the officers to sign sworn statements that this is what they had seen and that this is what they had been proven by their own objective observations.
Now, maybe this will take you out of your field or maybe not, but when you relate these kind of stories about things that have occurred in the air, do you think that odd things like this are more frequent in the world of aviation than they are here on the ground?
Because we get a million ghost stories every year.
I mean, is it something that just is occurring everywhere or more frequent in aviation?
We found out later the area was the same specific area of the Bermuda Triangle where the American Skylab space station, the third stage of Stato V, had orbited for several months.
And just about every time we went through this one particular area, all the instruments stopped working.
Well, you know, there was a thing on 2020, Linda Howe mentioned it on Crop Circles.
One of the people speculating, one of the scientists was talking about possible very strong, very narrow, focused magnetic energy that either emanates from or to the Earth that causes these.
And that there are definite areas where things occur on the Earth, magnetically anomalous areas.
I'm going to come back and ask you about astronauts, specifically Neil Armstrong, but I'm sure others and what they have seen.
So we will take a leap forward, time-wise, from some of the stories we've been getting to what some of our astronauts have been seeing.
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My guest is Martin Caden, Ghosts of the Air, his latest book out of about 200.
He's been writing about aviation for a very long time.
He has been a consultant to the commander of the Air Force Missile Test Center, the FAA flight surgeon, and the FAA administrator.
Just thought you ought to know who you're listening to.
And in a moment, more of it.
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The closest that I've heard is Neil Armstrong, who has made some very cryptic, unusual statements most recently at the White House about things out there that we can barely imagine.
And, you know, he hints at what might be there as though he wants to tell but can't.
It's tough to explain or to break down because even Gordon Cooper, when he was stationed in Northern Europe with NATO, reported seeing discs flying so far overhead they could not intercept them with their F-84 Thunderjet fighters.
But then not being able to explain something doesn't give us the right to extrapolate what it might be as fact.
And I wish we had more time tonight, and I'll come back with you on this because I spent 20 years investigating these things.
I've chased them in jet fighters.
I've tried to ram them more than once.
I've chased them in B-25s, and they're extraordinary.
Now, some of the astronauts reported strange, like tube-shaped objects in space.
Well, they turned out to be hoses that came off the ship.
Other ones cannot be explained.
And so we have to walk a middle road.
But the key I want to make so clear is that not being able to understand or explain does not give us the right to draw a conclusion that's final.
But there's so much in between all this that I think you're going to find fascinating because I spent first with the Continental Air Command of the U.S. Air Force working with General Stratemeyer.
I did some of the very first investigations.
Now, I fly, as I mentioned, in addition to the planes that we fly here, I've owned a couple of message shipments, the JU-52, in which I set some world records.
I've had my own B-17, a T-33 jet fighter, so that it's a combination of collecting everything all around me, plus what I've seen myself and what I experienced myself.
We saw a disc that was glowing during the day, and it seemed to be transparent to some extent.
And then one of the discs I investigated over Washington, D.C. was one that had been driving the people crazy up there.
They tracked it on radar.
They had visuals.
They had photographs.
And one pilot flying an F-94C Starfire said, to hell with this.
He went to afterburner and he rammed it and flew right through it.
All the instruments in The airplane jumped and he flew right through it as though it was nothing more than a picture of a television screen being shown on the clouds.
So I tried it.
If this guy could get away with it, I figured I'd take a chance on that, too.
And he was kind enough to give me a tape and a lot of the literature.
Anyway, he feels, and I kind of feel maybe, that the Air Force or somewhere in the military, they have a fantastic ability to do holographic work and possibly, because you can do a space image, you can do it against the clouds.
and that may or may not be it the question for you with the next one is Before you move on to the next one, how would you work the holographic scheme into the World War II things that Martin was talking about?
unidentified
well you really can go because uh...
hodograms are a part of the laser uh...
technology i don't think that i uh...
i Because I'm talking about more recent things that things seem to be there, but they're not.
They already are flying antimatter propulsion out of that area.
They go very high with aircraft that can take them high, with either ramjets or rockets, and then they ignite the type of fuel that is anti-matter getting tremendous.
And that's about 300,000 times as powerful as a chemical fuel.
The Air Force let it slip at a meeting, and I have a quote from the Air Force personnel who were shut up very quickly right after this.
So that's one thing like that that takes place.
There are also ways of getting different weapons to work that can reduce people to just about jelly without killing them, and they come back and revive to their normal physical status at a later date.
Well, we do see things rise vertically behind these mountains and dance about.
Now, that's all I can tell you.
I had one very close encounter out here, Martin, that I still don't like relating with a triangular object about 150 feet above me that was not flying, Martin, it was floating.
And I was in the Air Force, and I flew enough to know what it takes to aerodynamically fly versus float.
And I was very close.
It's the only one I've ever had like it close up like that, and I don't know that I liked it.
It could be with fans that are placed within the wing or the body of the vehicle, because right now there are somewhere in the order of 120 vertical flying, unmanned craft that are being used for reconnaissance and weapons delivery.
And the books today will tell you that Colin Kelly Jr. took his B-17 and made a suicide dive into the 23,000-ton battleship Haruna.
The truth is, Colin Kelly never ran a battleship, never won the Medal of Honor, never attacked any ship in terms of a dive into it, but bombed that battleship from 23,000 feet with 30 Japanese fighters attacking him.
And the airplane was set on fire.
Colin Kelly stayed at the controls of his airplane until all his men bailed out, and then he bailed out.
And just as he did, his airplane exploded.
His body fell to the ground about 3,000 feet from the tower at Clarkfield in Manila, in the Philippines.
Now, that's the true story.
The true story about Kelly is a far greater one than a man making a suicide dive.
But to this day, you'll find very, very few books that tell the truth about what happened that day.
The thing came after him, and he was running for a power boat in the river when the thing took a slash at him, and as he jumped in the boat, the slash ripped the heel off his foot.
Now, he didn't get hurt from that, but they poured the power to the boat and took off into mid-river and saw these three creatures standing on the deck behind them.
They're not the only ones to have seen this.
But since I didn't talk to anybody else who did see it, I refuse to put into the book that's told by a friend of a friend of a friend.
I don't believe in that.
But this one was someone I knew personally, and we got confirmation from one other person with that.
All right, stay right where you are, and we'll be right back.
This is Dreamland.
And, Martin, I've got a fact I want you to hear and then comment on.
A few minutes here before the top of the hour, Dear Art, asked your guest if he can add to the tale, this is really weird, of a B-17 over Germany when the tail gunner lost contact with the rest of the crew after they were hit by flak.
The tail gunner wanted to move forward to see what happened, but he decided to stay put.
Now, the plane flew on, became erratic in flight three times as it was descending, but each time smoothing out.
It landed in a field in Germany.
When the tail gunner got out, there was no plane, just the tail section.
It was perfectly balanced, which allowed it to glide.
If the gunner had moved, he would surely have died.
Because I don't believe for a moment that there is that much activity.
I spent a hell of a lot of time in the air, most of which I never saw anything that we either couldn't identify or that was too far away to identify.
The word UFO means unidentified flying objects.
How people could claim to identify an unidentified object is beyond me.
So now you have all these people who have little experience, and they're very honest, and they're very active, but they don't have the experience of studying an object in the air, judging its height, its altitude, and other factors about its performance, and right away they say UFO, which is the only thing they know to say.
Many times, but radar is no confirmation by itself.
You can get ghost echoes on radar.
You can get certain machinery that's near the base of a radar station, which will show an airplane leaping up and down 5,000 feet instantly, and it's not happening at all.
So the radar is not a confirmation by itself.
It's just one more factor which helps to identify with all the other factors that are involved.
And you can't take it by itself, and I don't care who the hell says what.
You just can't do it because it's not that accurate.
The only number not given there is for East of the Rockies, anywhere out east.
It's toll-free.
At 1-800-825-5033.
1-800-825-5033.
My guest is Martin Caden.
He's written Ghosts in the Air and 200 other books on aviation.
And we'll get back to him in, I think.
It's facts from Gary in Oakland, California.
Martin, I was once a passenger on a commercial flight that was approaching LAX, that's Los Angeles, for landing.
The time was late in the afternoon or early evening.
Somewhere over the LA area, it seemed the light coming in the windows got kind of yellow.
Actually, it increased rapidly until the entire cabin of the plane was filled with this eerie yellow light that was exactly the color of French's mustard.
I was not in a window seat, but from where I sat, I could see no detail through the window, just mustard yellow.
Suddenly, there was a loud bang and a bright flash, and at that very instant, the yellow light was replaced by the normal sky.
I think it was partly cloudy out there.
I heard on the news that night that two aircraft had been struck by lightning on approach to LAX that day.
I believe we were one of them.
Is it possible that Caden's airplane was in a similar state, but for an extended period of time?
The aircraft would have been very highly electrically charged, probably glowing with corona all over.
Anything is possible, although I prefer not to accept that explanation because with that kind of electrical force on the airplane, what little hair I got left would have been standing straight up.
I've heard the explanation for the Bermuda Triangle, the shifting ocean bottom releasing trapped gas, causing ships to lose their buoyancy, and basically the same principle for aircraft above the area.
Number one, the show's kind of been going down two tracks.
We started out with ghostly type appearances in the air, and now we're moving more into the UFO or unidentified side of it.
Earlier in the show, Martin had referenced some infrared photographic evidence, and I'd like the guests to go a little bit more into that, some examples of that.
And then the second question was, which also intrigued me, was later in the show, Martin referenced that we had over 120 vertically takeoff and landing type aircraft.
He seemed to have some knowledge in those areas, and I was wondering if he could let us know if he has any books on that type of thing as well.
Number one, even in the book Ghost of the Air, we have a number of photographs or infrared that were taken in graveyards and cemeteries and churches where no persons could be seen.
When the photographs were developed and the film was developed, it was usually a woman standing or sitting in the midst of the gravestones or in the vestibule of the church.
And no one has ever yet figured out how she could be seen on infrared, but not on the other film, and certainly not with normal eyesight.
These were electrical phenomena, mainly a collection of electrical forces that would coalesce and they would be attracted by all the electrical emanations from an aircraft, fly alongside it, meld into an electrical arch over the propellers, and sometimes go right through the ship and not hurt anything.
Or they would sometimes get in the cabin and explode and scare the hell out of everybody, but didn't do any damage.
Number two, what you saw and your dad saw, and I'm not putting you down with this at all, what you saw is exactly what you just described, and there's no other explanation for it without further information.
Much fewer photographs that defy explanation than you might possibly think, Art, because we spent, I think we examined thousands of these photographs, and we found that a good 50% were fake.
A good 25% were impossible to tell what they were, and the rest of them were just basically muddy, and we couldn't tell what they were.
That doesn't mean that we said, no, there are no such things.
It means that we weren't capable with our science and technology for identifying these things clearly and surely.
I just wanted to ask him, I heard a report one time about a pilot that was flying over the Hump during World War II, got into trouble and had to turn around and come back.
And when he Was making his big circle through the mountains, he saw a pyramid in the valley up there that was probably as large as the pyramid in Egypt.
We've heard reports of pyramids and other structures, some pyramidal and of different shapes.
That area is so isolated and it is so often covered with clouds and mist that I would lend more credence to the stories that come out of there than anywhere else.
I think it's a very definite possibility, although I have no proof to back up what I'm saying.
I've heard reports, Martin, from some people that are knowledgeable regarding flights over the pole areas, Greenland and the pole areas, where all of a sudden they reach an area bereft of ice or snow where it definitely ought to be covered.
And there's been some recent satellite imagery also showing something like that.
Have you heard any rumors or mythology about something like that?
If it's got anything to do with aircraft and odd and unusual occurrences, he's your man.
This is Dreamland.
unidentified
This is Dreamland.
This is TRN and CBC, Talk Radio Network and Chancellor Broadcasting Company, home of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
A lot of people think that to appreciate culture, you've got to enjoy things like this.
Or this.
In early Mesopotamia, evidence of the first audit exists in the form of lists on clay tablets.
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Now, once again, let's join Crush Dummies Vince and Larry as the steering wheel turns.
When we last left our dummies, Vince was suffering from amnesia.
Vince!
Vince, it's me, Larry.
Larry, who?
Don't you remember, pal, how we remind people to wear their safety belts?
Oh, oh.
Gosh, maybe he's taken out one too many telephone poles.
Suddenly, there was a knock at their car door.
Who are you?
I'm Vince's long-lost sister here to drum up painful childhood traumas that will hopefully jog his memory.
Like what?
I don't know.
Here, try hitting him with this.
Larry!
Vince!
Fender to the forehead works every time.
So, Vince, do you remember everything?
Well, I remember people aren't listening, so we've got to tell them to buckle up.
Yeah?
I remember safety belts save lives.
Anything else?
I remember you owe me $20.
Tune in next time when Vince says.
Thanks for helping me, pal.
Vince, don't thank me.
Thank your sister.
But Larry, I don't have a sister.
Brought to you by the Ad Council and the Department of Transportation.
On November 11th, after a Girl Scout meeting, troop leader Leanne Graham takes her three children to her sister's house for a visit.
Walt Burnett goes to a friend's apartment and starts drinking.
After coffee, Leanne puts her kids in the car and heads home.
After more drinks, Walt Burnett gets into his car and heads home.
Minutes later, Burnett doing 65 miles per hour runs a red light and broadsides Leanne Graham.
Leanne, her nine-year-old daughter, and nine-month-old son, are killed.
Her four-year-old son survives.
Walt Burnett is only slightly injured.
The preceding story actually took place in Santa Clara, California.
Only the name of the drunk driver was changed.
Next time your friend insists on driving drunk, do whatever it takes to stop him.
Because if he kills innocent people, how will you live with yourself?
Friends, don't let friends drive drunk.
An appeal to intervene from the Ad Council, the Department of Transportation, and this station.
October 14th, 1987.
A small child has been lost in an abandoned well in Midland, Texas.
Minutes become ours.
The entire country waits and hopes and prays.
The rescue team is final.
No country comes to the aid of a child the way we do.
Yet today, millions of children are being lost.
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But the real tragedy is that a lot of these children will never live up to their promise.
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When a beer commercial everyone's happy and they're jumping around in their whatever, The thing is they not only have appealing activities, they have appealing people out there too.
You know, you see beer commercials and it's done with natural water and it's cold brewed or heat pasteurized and all that kind of stuff.
They make it sound more like a healthy normal thing.
They never sell the hangovers or alcoholism or anything like that.
And then in reality, you're happy and then you're vomiting in the bathroom and then you're making up the next thing with a really bad headache.
Any person that says that beer is married for recreation or you just do it because it's a form of alcohol.
They just want your money.
It's the people that sell the product that are getting the most out of it, not the people that use it.
That's exactly what they're doing.
They're going to all sell our beer and it doesn't matter what it takes, just sell it.
No, they're not honest messages.
They don't show the flip-side of the results of alcohol.
A public service message from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
A public service message from the Church of Latter-day Saints.
If you enjoy Dreamland's weekly news segments by Linda Moulton Howe, which features updates about mysterious phenomena, then you might want to know more about her books and documentaries.
Linda Howe is an Emmy Award-winning television producer, writer, and researcher of Earth mysteries linked to non-human intelligences.
Her books and videos provide scientific data and first-hand eyewitnesses.
Linda Moulton Howe's two books, An Alien Harvest and Glimpses of Other Realities, are acclaimed for their quality, depth, photographs, and drawings.
If you are interested in learning more about the mysterious animal mutilations, crop circles, UFO sightings, the human abduction syndrome, and government knowledge about these worldwide phenomena, you will enjoy these books and videos available directly from LMH Productions.
My point was, if the airliner was hit, there has to be a complete record of the incident that took place, and there should be photographs showing what damage was sustained or not.
Look, one of the things that always gets me about these reports, and I want to make it clear, I've chased what I call UFOs in jet fighters and other planes.
And in all the reports on UFOs, and they usually report these things, go off the radar screen at 4,500 miles an hour or can be seen being tracked.
But not once, not one single time, has there ever been mentioned of a sonic boom of something going 4,500 miles an hour at low altitude, and that is flat impossible.
Now, as we traversed the United States in the Concorde, we had to stay subsonic by law.
Well, somewhere along the line, I was sitting next to the press relations guy, and they've got a mock meter on the Concorde.
You can sit there and watch it from your seat.
And we were out over the Midwest someplace or another, and apparently some commercial airliner was above or below or roughly on the same course and toyed a bit with the Concorde, and the pilot couldn't resist.
And all of a sudden, we all saw the Machmeter go to 1.01, 1.02, and we definitely broke the sound barrier over the Midwest, and we weren't supposed to.
And I asked the press relations guy about it, and he told me the story about the commercial airliner, because I hadn't seen it.
And he said, we're probably going to get fined for that.
See, it's like living where we are down here in Florida.
We're accustomed to sonic booms all the time.
Every time the shuttle comes back from space, half our place gets knocked silly.
You've got 120-ton ship coming down through us at about 1,100 to 1,400 miles an hour, and we get the double booms all the time from the leading and trailing edge of the machine.
So most of the complaints that take place take place only because we've got some unhappy people out there.
So lacking a complaint and tracking it, they wouldn't get fine.
How about this one from Phoenix?
During your many years of investigation into strange airplane phenomena, have you ever found any evidence which might shed some new light on the disappearance of Amelia Earhart?
Would you please ask your guest if he's noticed a higher percentage of strange occurrences during times of intense military conflict rather than peaceful periods?
That's the same frequency on which the Earth itself broadcasts.
What it does is to render the human being unable to think clearly.
He loses his judgment and he gets immediately some sort of vertigo, which makes him helpless for flying his airplane.
About 16 helicopters have been subjected to very low frequency or extremely low frequency radio waves from experimental radio towers, and all have crashed.
St. Elmo's fire and Foo Fighters are both manifestations of the same unusual electrical condition.
unidentified
Okay, and the other thing was, anything in the air involving, say, airborne troops under canopy, such as maybe pilots that are bailed out in distress or military civilian, otherwise of that nature?
Three of us were flying back from California to the Cape, and we were in a piper ash stick.
And next to me was Eddie Keyes, who flew in Burma in World War II, and the NASA engineer was behind us in the back seat.
He was asleep.
We were flying along at 8,000 feet in a clear night, and suddenly Eddie says to me, Marty, turn right.
So I turned to Eddie and said, what the hell for?
We're going out to Wichita.
That's straight ahead of us.
He said, I didn't say anything.
I said, come on, you just told me to turn right.
He said, I thought you did.
Both looked at each other, both tramped our right foot down on the right rudder pedal, hauled the yoke over, poured the coal to it, and got the hell out of there as fast as we could.
And about 20 seconds later, we saw a bright light coming down from the sky rapidly.
So we pulled the nose up and killed them as much of our power as we could and still had control.
And right where we would have been in the next 20 or 30 seconds, a giant meteor went screaming down through the sky and exploded on the ground.
You know, so much of what he says in debunking what otherwise others might jump on makes a story like that so credible.
Angels in the Air?
I wonder if maybe that would be a good title for a book, Angels in the Air.
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In a moment, back to Martin Caden.
What a fascinating program this has been.
Stay right there.
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Very sad about that, actually.
My first printing is done, so you can't order my book, except that is through GMX.
Very sad.
It's all sold out, so I guess I'm glad and sad.
There will be a second printing, and I'll be letting you know about that.
What do you think of a book title of Angels of the Air or Air Angels or something like that?
Because that sounds like what you met up with up there.
It does, and there have been some titles to that effect, but not by those.
I intend to do another book on these, and basically going to the angels, because I'm a very hard-headed, mechanistic individual, and I should be the last one in the world that I know who believes in such things, and I do believe in them.
That's right, because they have happened so many times now.
There's no way that anyone has convinced me that all the things I've gotten out of, I did by myself.
I didn't.
I had help.
I don't know where it came from, but sometimes there was more than one hand on a stick, and an airplane was pulled out of something bad, and I've gotten to accept this, and it just gives me a great feeling to know that it's there.
A lot of pilots that flew in Vietnam, and that's my era, had kind of a weird sort of feeling after a while that their number was close to being up.
And a lot of times, I'm sorry to say, they were right.
In other words, they would fly and fly almost fearlessly, but then they would begin to feel that time was running out or their number was about to come up.