Art Bell

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Oct. 15, 1995 - Art Bell

01:44:08

Dreamland with Art Bell - Atlantis - Bigfoot Scream - Frank Joseph and Linda Moulton Howe

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Main voices

42:49

frank joseph

43:31

skip farmbach

06:09

Appearances

linda moulton howe

02:59

ted fraley

02:23

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sunday once again and welcome to Dreamland.
		I am Art Bell and we've got a number of announcements.
		I'll give you a little thumbnail sketch where we're going, much as I know about where we're going.
		First, we'll come Linda Howe in a moment.
		Linda is the world's acknowledged expert on crop circles, animal mutilations.
		She's been doing a lot of work lately on Bigfoot.
		And I would advise you to get out your recorder.
		I have done that.
unidentified		The infamous Bigfoot screen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The one that curls my hair.
		I'm telling you, I don't have a lot of hair here to curl.
		But it does a job on me.
		She's going to have that today, along with another Bigfoot story.
		I think because of a fax that I forwarded to Linda last week.
		So that's going to be very interesting.
		Then along comes Frank Joseph, who has in Wisconsin.
		Together, we are going to explore that because I always thought Atlantis was somewhere out in the Atlantic and sunk.
		So anyway, that'll be a lot of fun.
		And that's coming up here in just a very few moments.
		First of all, I would like to welcome new affiliates.
		Dreamland, now, by the way, had 151 affiliates.
		Growing like an out-of-control weed.
		I don't know if that's a good analogy.
		Anyway, WMBH in Joplin, Missouri.
		Welcome to the program.
		There are 1,450 on the dial in Joplin.
		And another Missouri affiliate, that is KJCFAM in Festus, Missouri.
		Festus, Missouri.
		1,400 on the dial in Festus.
		I said bringing us now to 151 affiliates for Dreamland.
		Wow.
		Now, I got a letter here asking, please, begging me to tell you what sort of software right now.
		Begin calling now and keep calling until you get through.
		Because tomorrow is the deadline.
		This is the weekend.
		The number is 1-800-522-8863.
		The Bible of radio, as far as I'm concerned, and every electronic goodie you've ever wanted in your whole life.
		1-800-522-8863.
		Now, all the way to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
		Linda Howe.
		Hello.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, since I did that Bigfoot story with the audio tape of the Erie screams recorded near Snohomish, Washington in the 1970s, I have received several more encounter reports, including your facts last week.
		And I want to share excerpts from two of them tonight along with a replay of That Bigfoot screen.
		The first story is from Ted Fraley of Carson City, Nevada, who has been haunted by an encounter he had while deer hunting with a friend 35 miles east of Reading, California in the fall of 1956.
		He said it is in his memory etched as if it happened yesterday.
		It frightened him so much.
		It was around 10 p.m. and the two men were shining flashlights around to see.
ted fraley ▲ ● ▼		And right to the back of the meadow, I would say this had to be about 60 yards or so across the meadow, back into the bushes.
		My light fell on the strangest set of incandescent eyes that I've ever seen.
		These eyes were almost like they had lights behind them.
		They were grayish blue in color, and they were very, very bright.
		They weren't like a deer.
		They certainly weren't any bear.
		They certainly weren't a mountain lion.
		They were like none I've ever seen before.
		And Richard saw them right away, and he says, what in the hell is that?
		I says, I don't know.
		You think I ought to shoot it?
		We'll find out.
		I mean, maybe it's a huge mountain lion.
		And I said, no, that can't be a mountain lion.
		It just didn't, they don't reflect like that.
		Richard says, ah, plug it.
		Well, I'm ashamed to say that that's exactly what I did.
		I got out of the truck.
		Of course, the engine was off.
		We had both the spotlights on this thing.
		The eyes weren't moving.
		They were looking right at us.
		And I leveled that 3030 Winchester across the hood.
		And I squeezed off around, aiming just a little bit above the eyes, but right between the eyes.
		And I squeezed off around.
		And the woods came alive.
		I've never heard a scream.
		That tape recording that you played on Art Bell that night was very, very similar.
		Art said it made the air stand up on the back of his head when he heard it.
		But in real life, only 60 yards from this thing, instantly the bushes were just foiling.
		The bushes were totally moving.
		I couldn't see what was bouncing around in there.
		But the screen started at a low ebb, got higher and higher and higher, and I swear the trees vibrated.
		The decibel range was so high, it was totally incredible.
		I looked over at Richard.
		He looked at me.
unidentified		first and last time in my life that I've ever seen a man's hair stand straight up on end.
unidentified		Sounds of a sound
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art?
ted fraley ▲ ● ▼		You got it?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		That's not the end.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, recently, in July 1989, Skip Farmbach of Seattle was visiting a mining claim near Darrington, Washington, a logging town in the foothills of the North Cascade Mountain Range, and he heard sounds that he said were like somebody pounding with a hammer, like building something in the forest, and then something came down from the mountain.
skip farmbach ▲ ● ▼		Fell off an 80-foot cliff, down through the trees, busting branches on its way, hit the ground, fell on a pile of granite boulders that were covered with, I'd say, a two-inch layer of moss, bounced off those boulders, and rolled 150 feet down a hillside and landed at my feet.
		It was just laying there in a heap, and all I had with me was a .22 caliber pistol.
		So here I am on a hillside with a bear laying there dead on the ground or unconscious on the ground.
		And I'm wondering what I'm going to do next.
		If I'm going to die, if I'm going to be mauled to where I can't make it back to the car.
		And while all these things are going through my head and I'm making amends with my maker, the thing starts to move.
		And then I'm forced into a decision of what to do next.
		Trying to stay rational, I decided the best move I could make would be to fire a shot over its head.
		Hopefully that would scare it.
		And in the instant that it ran one way, I would run downhill and escape it.
		Well, it didn't work that way.
		When I fired the shot over its head, it was almost completely vertical.
		What I saw happen there was I saw a hand go out from its left side.
		It rolled kind of slightly onto its right side as that hand came out.
		Then it rolled over to its left side a little bit, put another hand out to its other side, and it stood up vertically, just like a man would do in a helping manner from a laying down position.
		Kind of like a push-up almost.
		Stood straight up, turned around, it had its back toward me this whole time.
		Turned around, looked me straight in the eye, then turned back around after the shot went off, and walked down the trail away from me, like I wasn't even there.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Good heavens.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		What exactly did you see when it turned around?
skip farmbach ▲ ● ▼		What I saw, and here's the part that really has me concerned.
		This creature, when it rolled onto its left side and put its arm out, now I was seeing the right side of its back of its head.
		I could have swore that I heard like a servo-type whine.
		Do you know what that sounds like?
		That kind of sounds that a servo makes that's actuating an electric device.
		I could have swore that I saw or heard that sound and that I saw a silver cone come out of the side of that thing's head.
		But now, there's the problem.
		I can't remember if that was actually on the hillside or if that was one of the dreams that I had because I had nightmares for three years over this thing.
		And anyway, to finish the story, it got up, walked away.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Wait, what did you see when it turned around?
skip farmbach ▲ ● ▼		Oh, when it turned around, okay, I'll give you a full description of the creature.
		From the back side, the hair on the back of its head grew into a tapered cape down to about the middle of its back.
		And I would say that that hair looked to be about 24 inches long, and it, of course, grew from different areas down its neck, but it was 24 inches long as it grew down.
		So I'd call it completely dark, shiny black.
		It looked synthetic to me when I first saw it.
		Over the rest of its body, the hair was about three inches long.
		Its face was completely hair-covered, except for the area right around its eyes, and the area on the bridge of its nose had a little bit of skin showing.
		And that skin was kind of a ruddy-brown pine cone color.
		And it had very deep wrinkles under its eyes and across the bridge of its nose, quite a bit like some of the orangutans or the apes, the bigger apes.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		What about the eyes?
skip farmbach ▲ ● ▼		Its eyes were very deep set and just like coal black marbles in its head.
		Very deep, dark, and sinister looking, I guess you'd say.
		Anyway, it walked out of sight, and I was standing there thinking, well, I'm no better off now, even though it's gone, because the only way I know off of this mountain is the way it went, which means I'm going to have to go that way also.
		And I walked down the trail in the direction that it had left, and now it was about five minutes after I had seen this thing.
		And as I got farther down the trail, I was breathing a sigh of relief because I figured, well, it's gone.
		There's no sign of it here anywhere.
		I just turned around and looked, and I saw it break over the crest of the hill and run toward me.
		Came down at about a 45-degree angle on the hillside toward me and ran as fast as it could through those bushes.
		I saw trees pushed aside.
		I saw trees float in the air.
		I saw rocks fly in my direction.
		Moss, sticks, twigs, everything seemed to be floating in the air behind me as this thing came towards me.
		And I ran with every inch of my life down that hillside.
		I slipped, slid down on a fairly flat sloped rock, went down underneath the vegetation and down into a clay-type pit, a small cave-type thing in the ground.
		By the time I climbed back out of the inside of that through a small opening in the underbrush, I looked behind me and I could still see the trees moving along the hillside as this thing ran back and forth in a zigzag pattern along the hillside looking for me.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, he managed to get away, but he's gone back repeatedly to check the site and has told me in effect today that he has found huge footprints in the area and grass mats inside the mine tunnels suggesting that whatever the Bigfoot was, it's still there somewhere, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, there's something to this.
		Linda, I've got to tell you, I did a really, really neat show Friday night, Saturday morning with Brad Steiger.
		The subject of Bigfoot came up.
		Brad Steiger actually had some what he regarded as Bigfoot hair, actual samples, physical samples.
		So I may need to put you in touch with Brad Steiger.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because there is a man in a university who could help us analyze that.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		That would be very interesting to do and then report on Dreamland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, you gave us a couple of real hair curlers there.
		And that sound, Linda, you know, there are a few things in your life that affect you that stay with you.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that sound is one of them.
		It curls my hair.
		It truly, truly curls my hair.
		All right, Linda, look, we're way short on time here, so give us your address, your 800 number, that kind of stuff.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And I thank you, and look forward to people writing me at Linda Howe, Post Office Box 538 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, zip code 19006.
		Post Office Box 538, Hunting Dunn, spelled H-U-N-T-I-N-G-D like Dreamland, O-N, Valley, P-A, zip code 19006.
		And the toll-free 800 number for information about the books and videos that I have produced is 800-707-9993.
		That's 800-707-9993.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Linda, that was a wonderful report.
		I'm so glad I got it on tape.
		I'm going to do a Halloween show.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when I do, I may replay those stories.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Linda, thank you.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And thank you, Art.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		See you next week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
		All right, that's Linda Howe, generally acknowledged to be the world's expert on crop circles, animal mutilations, and now seriously investigating Bigfoot.
		I never in my life will forget that screen.
		Anybody who's ever heard it, I don't know about you.
		North American trading, for quite some time on this program, has been saying the currency was going to change.
		Well, voila, the currency is changing.
		Now, they announced in the little blurb they sent me that somehow the Treasury Department has said they're not going to collect the old currency.
		Melinda, I don't think I'd have taken a 30-30 shot at Bigfoot.
		That was a classic story.
unidentified		And that, God, that's real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I tell you, I deal in this kind of materials, you know, all the time, and that scream sets me on edge.
		I just, there's something about the frequency and the shrillness of it that is so anti-human.
		Anyway, in a moment, Frank Joseph coming up.
		A couple of things for you first.
		So much to do.
		Laprina is, well, let's see.
		Aspirin is good.
		I take aspirin.
		I'm able to take Amisin.
		Aspirin, and I take anisin.
		That's no free commercial for anisin.
		It's just the truth.
		You know, if I've got a headache, it works.
		In fact, I prefer aspirin as a painkiller to the stuff that cautions you not to drive while you're on it.
		You know, for me, aspirin works very well, and for most humans, it does.
		Why nobody has ever thought of this before is totally beyond me.
		It's Latrina, and a lot of people can't take aspirin.
		Sometimes it'll even give me kind of a burning feeling in my belly.
		And so imagine this, aspirin in a spray can.
		Now think about that.
		Doesn't that make sense?
		If you've got a sore knee, a sore shoulder, a sore back, the way I do so many times, instead of taking pills, which are slower acting anyway, laprina, kind of like the nicotine patch that goes on your arm, laprina sprays on and goes directly, is absorbed into your skin and goes to the exact area that you want to affect.
		It's an incredible idea, and to me it is incredible that nobody thought of it till right now.
		So, to order the Srina.
		And Frank Joseph.
		After completing studies at Southern Illinois University School of Journalism, Frank Joseph was a staff reporter for the Chicago Area Periodicals, like the Winnetka Paper.
		He also has been a featured writer and book reviewer for several national publications, including Fate, Aviation Heritage, Pilot Careers, and so forth.
		Today, he is editor-in-chief of the Ancient American, a four-color bi-monthly magazine of alternative archaeology.
		He is a member of the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago, as well as the Ancient Earthworks Society of the University of Wisconsin at Madison.
		While traveling in Africa, Europe, Central, and South America, following clues to lost civilizations, he co-authored Destruction of Atlantis, Adams Press, Sacred Sites, The Lost Pyramids of Rock Lake, and Atlantis In Wisconsin, both with, I believe it's a Galt Press in Minnesota.
		A veteran scuba diver, Frank Joseph, is a frequent guest lecturer throughout the Midwest.
		We've got him here tonight.
		And I've got his book.
		And let me read you just before we go to him.
		Gunnar Thompson, a Ph.D. at the University of Hawaii, wrote of the book, Frank Joseph makes a strong case for the existence of an ancient memorial center now submerged beneath Rock Lake, Wisconsin.
		His fascinating investigation into long history of the mysterious rock pyramids beneath the waves, the predictable bungling by so-called academic experts, and recent discoveries by scuba divers make for an exciting voyage into America's pre-Columbian heritage.
		So with that in mind, away we go to Frank Joseph.
		Frank, welcome to the program.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		I'm very glad to be on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, Frank?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm speaking to you from St. Paul, Minnesota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		St. Paul.
		Excellent.
		Well, all right.
		This is one that I'm not very familiar with.
		Atlantis, I always thought somehow in the back of my mind, maybe this is just ridiculous, but I'd always thought it was somewhere between America and Africa or something and sank into the Atlantic Ocean.
		Is that the traditional story regarding Atlantis?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		It is a traditional story, and it is the correct one.
		Oh!
		The idea behind the title for my book, Atlantis in Wisconsin, is to show that not the city of Atlantis was located there, but that the Atlanteans, in fact, came to American shores and specifically used a spot in Wisconsin, which I'll talk about later, as a very important part of the copper trade or the Bronze Age.
		The actual city of Atlantis itself, all indications show that it was a very great and splendid and powerful city located about 200 miles due west of the Straits of Gibraltar.
		It was not a continent.
		It was a large-size island, which over time sank.
		And in its final destruction was a very violent volcanic eruption, which destroyed the island totally and sank the island.
		That is what I believe Atlantis really was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, before we leave the original Atlantis, I really would like to know something about it.
		I always thought, sorry, Frank, that Atlantis was mythology, was not real.
		What evidence is there to indicate Atlantis even ever really was?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is a very excellent question.
		It is like trying to prove a murder case without the body.
		You've got a lot of circumstantial evidence, but the body is missing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, if Atlantis were in front of Judge Ito, it would walk.
unidentified		Well, I guess you could say that.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		That's a very excellent analogy.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		I hope to steal that from you and use that in the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have my permission.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		I think Atlantis will be around and remembered long after all that nonsense.
		But, no, as far as the evidence is concerned, trying to explain that or prove that, even on a wonderful radio show like this, is like trying to build a battleship between sunrise and sunset.
		But there are some things that I think I can provide.
		One of the things that I think is particularly interesting is that the date associated for the destruction of Atlantis, the true and proper date after the Greek figures have been scaled down correctly, is about 1200 B.C. And 1200 B.C. is a very pivotal time in ancient history because up until that time there was something known as the Bronze Age.
		It was filled with great civilizations in Turkey like the Hittite civilization, the Mycenaean Greeks, Homer's Greeks were strong.
		Troy was a major city.
		Egypt was at its height under Ramesses III.
		And after 1200 BC, all those civilizations were shattered and Egypt had gone in decline.
		What is interesting about that time also is that we know that there was a major volcanic eruption at that time.
		And it appears that this coincides directly with what Plato told us about, that the Atlantis was destroyed in 1198 BC.
		That is the final destruction for the island and city of Atlantis.
		And I think that is, from that point on, we can move to some wonderful particulars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Before we do, though, there is a most unusual amount of volcanism going on right now, Frank.
		And I think you're going to make the case for lost civilizations, ones that may have disappeared because of volcanism.
		And I don't want to scare anybody, but we've got volcanoes going off all the way around the Ring of Fire right now, including, well, I'm not even going to bother going through the list.
		It's almost all the way around the Ring of Fire.
		Frank, are we going through some sort of repeat cycle?
		And if so, are we at a worrisome moment in it?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		I would definitely say we are, and this fits in directly with what we're talking about in Atlantis, because we are told to all of the traditions, which I've been collecting now since 1980, and the readings of Edgar Casey, which have proved to be incredibly correct, show that the Atlanteans reached a high level of civilization and technology, but that they abused that technology.
		They interfered with the forces of nature, upset those forces, and precipitated their own destruction.
		I see the great parallel taking place now.
		The Atlanteans were not just somebody located on an island.
		They were a worldwide civilization.
		They were the first worldwide civilization, and now that is pretty much what we are becoming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then their worldwide presence meant that there was a worldwide erasure?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		There was a worldwide catastrophe.
		There was almost a total erasure, but it has seared its way into the folk Consciousness of dozens of people around the world who are by no means connected with each other who tell the same story of a great flood from which their ancestors arrived to recreate civilization on foreign shores after most of the original people were destroyed in a horrible cataclysm of fire and water.
		And I think this is the great lesson of Atlantis, not that it is just interesting historically parallel for our time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh no, you're exactly right.
		Now you mentioned Edgar Casey.
		Do you know the name Gordon Michael Scallion?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		I certainly do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To me he is the modern-day Edgar Casey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if there is a real McCoy, Gordon Michael is the living entity.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't see how people can really disagree, I think, fundamentally with him because the things that he's already said have come true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		And he's different than Casey in that he doesn't, he's not transmedium to the extent that Casey was, that Mr. Scallon is also a highly educated man.
		He's able to watch the patterns.
		Whereas Edgar Casey was actually a very unsophisticated man, came from the hills of Kentucky originally, and was a very pure-hearted and very decent man.
		And the things that he spoke were true channeling, I feel.
		One of the few true channels that have ever existed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold tight for just a second, Frank, and we'll be right back to you.
		I want to read this to my Dreamland audience because I believe I owe it to you.
		Gordon Michael Scallion was on my program.
		And I find, I, of course, invited him back, and I spoke with his office last week, and I got a fax from Gordon Michael Scallion, and I find it very chilling.
		I would like to simply read it to you as it is, and you can make of it what you want.
		It's short.
		Dear Art, as you might imagine, with all that's going on in the, quote, ring, end quote, I've been swamped.
		I did want to get back to you and thank you for the offer to be on Coast to Coast again.
		At the present time, my guidance tells me, wait.
		I realize how difficult it is with so much going on and so many people wanting to know what's next.
		However, following my guidance is what allows me to receive prophetic information, and I must trust my inner source.
		I have no new information to share at this time, and my prophecies for 1995 continue to stand as presented in the January issue of ECR and your program.
		Should I receive any updates that could save lives, I will notify all media sources who can reach those in areas that may be affected.
		Which, of course, would include your program.
		Blessings, Gordon Michael Scallion.
unidentified		Now again, here's Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now again, here I am.
		By the way, I meant to mention in my new book, The Art of Talk, there are a couple of the very best of Linda Howe's photographs of crop circles.
		Very, very good.
		The whole book is full of photographs.
		It's not a photo essay, but there are a lot of photographs in there, and you're going to love them.
		Very clear, very well done.
		This book has truly, truly exceeded my expectations, and I'm very excited to have it in my hand.
		I have my own problem.
		I just had, I pay for books too.
		And I just had to order 20 more myself.
		This is on top of the 40 books that I got to start with.
		Everybody I know, and you must stop, is coming to me.
		I can't afford it to get a copy of the book.
		If you want a first edition copy, they're waiting.
		They're going to be gone.
		The deadline's Wednesday at midnight.
		You can order right now, but you dare not wait.
		The number to order the Art of Talk is 1-800-864-7991.
		It's open right now.
		1-800-864-7991.
		Now, we blew the trunk lines out in Fortuna, California for the second time this weekend.
		If you want the free catalog, almost book from C-Crane Company, the catalog, the Bible of radio, I call it, you call right now and before tomorrow or you'll miss out.
		1-800-522-8863.
		1-800-522-8863.
		NBC reported over the weekend that there have been long-distance trunking problems to the West Coast, and I'm afraid we may have been the ones.
		Now, one more item, GMX, GMX, GMX.
		It is magnetic water conditioning.
		It removes scaling from your pipes that otherwise will build in your system, kind of like cholesterol in your veins, eventually bringing on not the doctor, but the plumber.
		It'll coat your water heater.
		It'll make white spots when you wash your car.
		It's terrible.
		You can truly get rid of it with GMX.
		I've got it here at the house.
		It works.
		Simple as that.
		It works.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		This will tell us, and the anthropologists will tell us, that the only people living in the upper Great Lakes were what they call Paleo-Indians or Archaeo-Indians, and not even many of those.
		These were people of an unsophisticated level.
		They were hunter-gatherers, and their interest in copper was of only a decorative nature.
		They used to pick up what is known as float copper, pieces of copper left behind by the glacier.
		But the mining that took place abruptly, there is no indication that the mining, which is still intact, by the way, it is still there.
		You can visit it on Isle Royale, which is this large island in Lake Superior, which is not often visited because it's hard to reach, but the ancient mining is still there, and their ancient tools are still there.
		Upwards of more than a million hammerstones, beautifully made hammerstones, have already been found, many more than a million.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, what do we know about the technology, or what can we surmise about the technology that would have been required to remove that volume of copper?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll give you an idea.
		It is known that the technology that was used to remove That copper, for example, like digging down 60 feet through solid rock, was not obtained until the 18th century.
		Now, to answer your question earlier, why would they remove this copper?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, in order for you to make bronze, you have to have copper.
		Not only ordinary copper, high-grade copper.
		And with that copper, you combine it with zinc and tin in a skillful way, and you create bronze.
		Now, what does that mean?
		Bronze means that if you have a sword made of bronze, you have a superior weapons technology that will beat anything else of your opponents.
		Now, while this mining was going on, 3000 BC to 1200 BC in America, all this huge amount of copper, which disappeared, the Bronze Age simultaneously began in Europe.
		And there are no large natural copper deposits in Europe.
		There are a few, very few, and not enough ever to supply the prodigious amounts of copper that were used and needed by all the civilizations of the ancient world.
		And the mining in America stopped at precisely the same time that the Bronze Age ended in Europe.
		In between, Plato tells us that this great metal-working, seafaring civilization of Atlantis was destroyed 1200 BC.
		So here we have this one date defining three major events.
		The end of the copper mining working in America, the end of the Bronze Age in Europe, and the end of destruction, and the final destruction of Atlantis in the middle, which was the arbiter of this great copper mining enterprise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What I am curious about, again, though, is if this lost civilization was utterly destroyed, not just Atlantis, but what had sprung from it worldwide, why are you confident or even hopeful, based on current conditions and predictions and all the rest of it, that we're going to come through whatever cycle appears prepared to repeat itself somewhat intact?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, I just have this dumb faith in mankind, I suppose.
unidentified		I was hoping for more.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		I should mention, though, correct you there a little bit, although Atlantis itself was totally annihilated and may or may not be found as our own technology develops, the civilizations that it left behind in other parts of the world are certainly intact, and our ruins definitely exist and can be pointed to as identifiably Atlantean.
		So the evidence is really quite strong.
		I don't mean to say that there's only circumstantial.
		There is plenty of hard physical evidence that we don't have a street sign.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, let me deal with that hypothesis.
		Atlantis itself was destroyed, but a lot of what spread from it prior to that destruction remained or survived.
		So then what happened to all those people?
		In other words, why are we not, or are we, their descendants?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that in some degree we are.
		I think that some of their genes have survived all this time.
		The best example of that, I'd say, were the Basque people of the Pyrenees in Spain and France, who are a European people but speak a language which is not Indo-European and who have traditions about their ancestors coming from what they call the Green Isle, the Green Island or Green Isle, which was this beautiful, magnificent city on a green island far out in the Atlantic that was lost in a terrible storm at sea.
		And they preserved these stories and their own genetic heritage pretty well intact in the isolations of the Pyrenee Mountains.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Earlier tonight, you heard the report very clearly, the chilling one from Linda.
		Linda Howe, about the Bigfoot or the creature, or whatever it is.
		We're just using words, some unidentifiable creature.
		How do you deal with such stories?
		That and UFOs?
		And does any of it fit into any of the ancient research that you have done?
		Or do you think it might?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		I think it really does.
		The skeptical mindset that we've had for so long is now proving to be extremely narrow.
		People are afraid they're going to be gullible or something.
		But we have to, there's no such thing as scientific inquiry unless you keep an open mind and don't have a rush to judgment.
		As far as things like Bigfoot are concerned, yes, there are numerous traditions on both sides of the Atlantic about these giants, these people who were at a former time, and some of them had been enslaved to do menial work and who had later come into severe conflict with the so-called civilized people.
		Who's to say that this isn't some kind of a remnant from that time?
		Mythological traditions are not fables.
		They're not stories.
		It's the only way that an unliterate people could preserve the things that were important to them from their past.
		So for us to dismiss these myths as just children's stories is doing tremendous insult, I think, to the folk tradition.
		The myths are important and should be studied and maybe stripped away of some of their poetic elements.
		But going to the core of them, yes, we see there was an Atlantis, and there were strange things, like if you want to call it Bigfoot or whatever, we don't know the real names of what they were.
		The verdict isn't in on any of these things, to be sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that Atlantis will ever actually be rediscovered?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am extremely confident that it shall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Yes, because if we now possess the technology to find the Titanic and the Bismarck, surely we will be able to find the city lost in the sea.
		The trouble is, we have been looking in the wrong places.
		We've been looking in the Caribbean, which is actually not a wrong place.
		We'll find things there.
		We've been looking in the Aegean, and none of these places are where Plato told us it was.
		Plato states pretty accurately, pretty clearly, that it was not outside, not far outside the Straits of Gibraltar, which he called the Pillars of Hercules.
		And if you look there on the ocean floor, now that the ocean floor has been mapped pretty well, what do you find, but in fact, a sunken volcano in the Hirandel Deep.
		It is on a spit of land underwater, not deep underwater either, about 200 feet down, called the Ampere Seamount.
		It's called this By the oceanographers who found it in 1949, that recently.
		And they determined, Dr. Maurice Ewing determined at that time that it was at one time a volcanic island which collapsed into the sea within the past 10,000 years geologically.
		Efforts to go out there, there's a very good chance we're going to find something that will be the greatest news story in all of archaeological history, that's for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would, and let's talk about that for a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's say, for the sake of our discussion, that absolute evidence of such a prior civilization really is discovered.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What sociological implications would that have?
		Maybe even religious.
		It seems to me it would have many, and it would cause all of man to sit down and think really, really hard about what we're doing and about cycles and about what happened to them and what might happen to us.
		I mean, it would have such an impact.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		I think it would have a very chilling and a very necessary effect because here was a people who had it all.
		They had a worldwide, powerful civilization.
		They had vanquished all their enemies.
		They were about becoming wealthier and wealthier, and they lost it all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much of a civilization did they have?
		I mean, deal with, I guess, the mythology of it or what you can tell us from what we really know.
		What did they have?
		What did they do?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		There are two excellent indications for that.
		One is from an ancient source, a wonderful Greek historian by the name of Hisiad, who lived about an Ecumenical Council as a world council, and an ecumeni is a worldwide culture.
		Now, what do we find to back up that?
		Well, not too long ago, Professor Charles Hapgood, who was, until his death about 10 years ago, one of the leading cartographers of all modern times, discovered and dissected a map.
		And I'm not going to get into long parts of this, but this was an ancient map.
		And he found that this map had been preserved in Turkey.
		It's called the Piri Reis map.
		And this map shows that somebody had tremendous geographical information about the coasts of America and even what Antarctica looks like underneath the ice 4,000 years before Christ.
		And the proof which Dr. Hapgood came up with in his book called The Maps of the Ancient Sea King, that book's about 30 years old now, has never been disputed.
		It has been attacked and has never been disputed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How accurate are the representations of that geography?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		I think Dr. Hapgood makes an extremely convincing case.
		He writes for a general audience, but believe me, the academics were down on him viciously, but could not dismantle his evidence.
		He has been able to show that there were an overlay of these maps in this old Turkish map, which relied on maps from, oh, the Alexandrian Library, for example, from the time of the Ptolemaic time, and that relied on even earlier maps.
		And he was able to peel back all the evidence to show, yes, that there were, that's what he calls them ancient sea kings, which coincides now with the Menominee Indian tradition of these sea peoples who came over here and stripped Mother Earth of her copper.
		And of course, archaeologists will say, oh, modern man didn't have a ship that could cross the ocean like that.
		Well, that's a lot of nonsense.
		If ancient man could make the pyramid in Egypt, he certainly could make a boat that could go across the Atlantic Ocean.
		And I think that's what's happened.
		Now, see, that I think is the great realization now, is that it's a moral teaching, Atlantis.
		That is the greatest significance for humanity, is that it was a civilization that possessed great power.
		Because of their materialism and rampant greed, they lost it.
		And, you know, it makes us look at our own world here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it does, and that's a good pause point.
		Hang on just a second, Frank.
		We'll be right back to you.
		Fortunately for humanity, we have none of that going on on this Earth, so naturally we have nothing to worry about.
		Right?
		And maybe that's a perfect segue into North American trading.
		The inevitable question for Frank is one that before you ask it, I will.
		Frank, the audience is full of Christian folk Jews, every imaginable religion.
		Religions based on the Bible or the Quran or whatever it is, all have certain beliefs regarding how we got here.
		How do you reconcile those beliefs with your theories regarding ancient civilizations?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think there's any problem with that at all because in the traditions of, you go from Genesis, which talks about the flood and Noah, and you go in the Quran, and the Quran talks about the land of Ad A.D. And these were people who preceded all the great culture-bearers of Arabia,
		and who, in fact, inherited a lot of their ideas and their civilization from the people of Ad, who had a great palace on an island which disappeared because its people had committed a great sin against Allah in a horrible flood.
		Like I mentioned earlier, you have this tradition amongst virtually every people on the face of the earth, and it seems to indicate, unless you're willing to totally dismiss this as some kind of impossible coincidence, that there was, in fact, a worldwide event, which I think, to answer your question, yes, it impacted the morality, the moral systems of every religion on the face of the earth.
		I think so, because there's always a moral question involved, isn't there?
		For example, Noah is singled out as the last of the generous men.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, let me stop you right there with Noah, because maybe you will have some comment on this.
		We're here at the bottom of the hour, but Frank, are you aware that there's satellite imagery now that has people up on the side of Mount Ararat digging archaeological digs, probably uncovering, I've heard odds 100,000 to 1, That it is anything but an artificial object.
		In other words, they think they may have found and are digging for Noah's Ark on the side of Mount Ararat right now.
		And I'd like your comments on that when we come back.
		So hang in there, Frank.
		You're listening to Dreamland for a copy of this program the Seacrane Company weekend.
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		So if you have not yet made it through to get that and throw away, folks, it's one you keep all year long.
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		So, enough said, I guess.
		Except the number is 1-800-864-7991.
		1-800-864-7991.
		Right now, or 24 hours a day until you can get through.
		Now, we're about to open the lines here, and I'm going to let you ask Frank Joseph anything you want.
		And I've got a couple of questions of my own.
		We'll get those and then the phone numbers to get in on the show because we're opening the lines now.
		First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
		The wildcard lines, area code 702-727-1295.
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		Again, east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		And now back to Frank Joseph.
		Frank, I had a question which I had asked you just prior to the break about Ararat and Noah's Ark.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know anything about that at all?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have.
		I took particular interest in that, of course, as I have of all things in regards to the world deluge.
		And I'll try to explain it in my book as best I can.
		I don't believe that what they're finding there is, in fact, the Ark.
		I do believe that it is an artificial creation.
		It may, however, have tremendous significance for the Genesis story.
		And it appears to be, although it's still the verdict has just committed, but it appears to be a monument to that flood, and a used monument, a kind of a temple or memorial chapel, as it were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would be kind of rough, though, wouldn't it, to build it that far up on Ararat?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, yeah, that's true, but that's typical for places of great sanctity.
		I have to think about places like Delphi, which is way up in the mountains of Greece, or many of the Indian sanctuaries on the west coast, which are high up in the mountains of the Shoshone Indians.
		So in that regard, it would really be quite plausible.
		So I don't think I know for sure that it is not the ark, but the evidence so far tends to show that it, in fact, could be a memorial, a monument that was built to the Great Flood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps you would think that it might be carrying some fair-haired, might have carried some fair-haired people.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't want to emphasize that so much.
		From all indications, especially in its last days, Atlantis was a truly multiracial, multinational society.
		It didn't begin that way, but it certainly ended up that way.
		The basic racial type for the Atlantean seems to be, well, not commonly red hair, of all things, and tall and slender.
		That's the general consensus from traditions on both sides of the Atlantic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let us take a few questions from the audience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How about that?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Be glad to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You ready?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Frank Joseph.
		Hello, where are you calling from?
unidentified		I'm calling from Liberal, Kansas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Liberal, Kansas.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yes.
		Excuse me, Mr. Joseph.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Are you familiar?
		Excuse me.
		Are you familiar with any of the ruins that's in Florida and the pyramids at the left of them in Florida?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I've been diving down there for some years, as a matter of fact, with William Donaho, who's the head of the Atlantis Organization in California.
		And he has led several expeditions down to the Bimini Wall, and I've been privileged to go along with him.
		And I've seen the wall myself.
		It's not a wall, actually, or a road, as it's referred to.
		It appears to be the remains of a breakwater or a harbor facility on the north end of the island of Bimini, which is 80 miles due east of Miami.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, help me out with her question.
		She asked you about pyramids in Florida.
		Now, I've never heard of any such thing.
		Pyramids in Florida?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, off the coast of Florida, there have been many sightings of what appears to be pyramidal-shaped buildings.
		I have not been able to verify that, but because of the subsistence problems in Florida, especially the coastal area, I don't see why that is an impossible find that's going to be made someday.
		The only pyramids underwater that I really know about are the ones that are in Wisconsin that I wrote about.
		And those structures we photographed and have found.
unidentified		And I don't see why the same thing can't be done someday off the coast of Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have photographs of pyramids?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		We have photographs of the stone remains of several of the structures that were found at the bottom of Rock Lake.
		They were made between 1989 and just 1993.
		And they show stone structures between 20 and 60 feet below the water.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can see that your book is full of such photographs, as a matter of fact, isn't it?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, the destruction of Atlantis is the first book I wrote, but the next one that carries those photographs is called The Lost Pyramids of Rock Lake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, even I'm talking about Atlantis in Wisconsin.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Right, we have some shots there.
		There's one shot of a structure underwater on top of a hill.
		It's a ruined little pyramidal structure that we found only about 20 feet underwater.
		And to answer this lady's question, I think relates to it, is that there appears to be, and I don't know the mechanism for this, there appears to have been some kind of a worldwide shift or something that puts structures like this, pyramids, underwater.
		There's a lake in Japan called Lake Biwa, which has pyramidal structures 20 feet below the water.
		The Bimini Wall I mentioned is about 19 or 20 feet.
unidentified		The structures seen off the coast of Florida are supposed to be in shallow waters.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		So there's even a lake in Ireland, Loch Nay, which has pyramidal structures supposedly underwater.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		So there's something that took place, and I think we're finding the bits and pieces of it now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Frank Joseph and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off first.
		That's number one.
		Always extinguish thy radio beauty.
unidentified		Sorry about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		I have a question for Mr. Joseph.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, where are you?
unidentified		Vancouver, Washington.
		All right, go.
		I'm curious as far as his thoughts regarding the last ice age that disappeared about 12,000 years ago as far as what his ideas are as for the cause.
		I've heard that, you know, with Atlantis being in the Atlantic, that when it sank, it allowed the warmer currents from the Gulf and farther south to move up, therefore warming the North Atlantic waters and such.
		And I'd like to know his thoughts on that.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's an extremely interesting question.
		I agree with him.
		I think that refers to one of the earlier sinkings of Atlantis.
		I should explain that Atlantis originally was a rather large, lengthy strip of land in the mid-Atlantic, and over time, pieces, portions of it sank, and only its final destruction was the really violent one in 1200 BC.
		But before that, there were various sinkings.
		And I think as some of that land was encroached upon by the sea, it indeed let up these warmer temperatures, which had tremendously important consequences climatically throughout the northern hemisphere.
		That's been really pretty well demonstrated now.
		There's, I think, a lot of evidence to show that, especially with the ice core drillings now.
		That's a way where you can determine former climates in the world by digging down through the ice and seeing ash layers and so on.
		You can tell what the climate was like 12 or 15,000 years ago.
		And I agree.
		I think that there was this major climactic change that took place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what about the comet question?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, a comet, supposedly, best theory did in the dinosaurs.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, not a comet, I don't think they say, but they do say a large extraterrestrial piece of debris, whether an asteroid or so on.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Excellent question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doesn't matter, we'll talk rock here.
		Rock, snowball, whatever it is.
		Big.
		And there's been a lot of recent concern, and I've got an article in the other room that would curl your hair, about a revisit of a comet we're going to have, which they're wondering the trajectory is within error limits of actually hitting Earth.
		And I'll be saying more about that.
		But the point is, over time immemorial, things have hit Earth, big things.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And where does that fit into any of your theories?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		And that is the mechanism that actually tripped off this major destruction.
		There is a tremendous couple of books written by two wonderful astronomers called Klube and Napier.
		And they have shown conclusively that the Earth passes through a meteor cloud, usually in the November season, every year.
		Now, there's hardly anything left of that meteor cloud now, so you'll see some nice meteor displays.
		It's dissipated over the course of thousands of years.
		But the last time there was a chance for a major impact was in the 13th century BC, right around there, they say.
		And that coincides perfectly with the destruction of Atlantis.
		I might say parenthetically here that the vast majority of these flood traditions that you get from around the world, and even in the Old Testament, in Revelations, in John, this flood is related to a fire from heaven.
		It is called that over and over again.
		Even the myths and the legends associated with the building of the Great Pyramid were that it was to be created as a refuge against a coming flood caused by, as described in the Arab traditions, a planet or a large object falling from space.
		So I believe that in fact was the mechanism that the Earth passed through a large meteor cloud and that the Earth was bombarded, not by just one meteor, but by quite a few actually.
		The Earth was under a bombardment.
		And now that celestial mechanics are being better understood, even establishment astronomers are beginning to understand, yes, the world, our Earth, is subject to bombardments periodically by these meteor clouds, which are sometimes related to the passing of comets.
		Like Enki is probably the comet that you, one of the comets that you might be talking about there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Professor Marsden, well-respected, I'll have to drag the newspaper article out and tell you which one I'm talking about because I can't recall right now.
		But more and more mainstream astronomers are sort of issuing these warning bells.
		That's correct.
		And it's appearing in the press all the time lately about something hitting Earth.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Just look at the latest issue of Astronomy Magazine.
		That's mainstream.
		And on the front cover, it shows the painting, this horrendous painting of a meteor strike off the coast of New York.
		Now, something like that even five years ago, I would say even two years ago, would not have been discussed as something that's a lunatic fringe.
		But when that comet, Comet Shoemaker-Levy, crashed into Jupiter, and the astronomers got a good look at what could happen, that made their hair curl.
		Because if that happened to our world, well, I wouldn't be talking to you now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you wouldn't.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		And so if it could happen to Jupiter, it could certainly happen to Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, first time caller line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air with Frank Joseph and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yeah, I've got some to look at.
		Last month's popular science magazine, it talks about the hurricanes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, where are you, sir?
unidentified		Seattle, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seattle, all right.
unidentified		It says that our government in Alaska is we've built a machine and we're testing it now and we're manipulating the local weather.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		You're talking about Project HARP.
		Right.
		All right.
		Frank, I don't know that you know anything about it.
		And as far as I know, the stated goals of Project HAARP are not to manipulate the weather.
		They are to manipulate the ionosphere and to look for, interestingly, underground caverns and tunnels.
		That one really blew my mind.
		But there is a project in Alaska right now.
		I've seen the antenna arrays called Project HARP.
		Have you heard about that?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know anything about it?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		I think that far more mind-blowing than looking for caves is the manipulation of the ionosphere.
		Because the ionosphere, we are told, is being depleted by the worldwide pollution.
		Now, what is so why would it why is that important?
		The ionosphere is a blockage.
		It is a shield of defense against meteor falls because many times a meteor, unless it hits the Earth, unless its trajectory is absolutely perfect, it's not going to hit the Earth.
		It's going to burn up in the atmosphere, and sometimes the atmosphere gets so thick in the ionosphere, it's supposed to be thick, that it will ricochet off, it'll bounce off.
		Now, if you get a depleted ionosphere, your shield gets weaker, and it's going to allow more of these large extraterrestrial debris to crash into the Earth.
		So, if they're a building, a machine, or an instrument of some kind to strengthen the ionosphere, that means that somebody is concerned to keep out not only cosmic radiation, which it also does that, but it also has a tremendous effect in bouncing off these large meteor falls.
		And as a matter of fact, that is specifically mentioned in the latest issue of Astronomy Magazine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure it will strengthen.
		Is that the stated goal?
		I know that they're going to transmit such high-intensity RF, radio frequency.
		Incredible.
		To heat the ionosphere.
		Now, who knows whether that's going to strengthen it?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		I would say the word heat is probably maybe a cover word or not the correct word to stimulate the ionosphere.
		Because heating it is not going to do much.
		But stimulating it, yes.
		And the way you stimulate it, well, it's an evolved thing, but I can imagine that that's extremely interesting.
		You bring that up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the sun itself stimulates the ionosphere.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		It does.
		It does.
		But it is on the exterior.
		The ionosphere is extremely thick.
		It varies across the planet.
		It can be over 145 miles thick at certain points.
		But we are undermining it from our side by all of our pollutants.
		And it's being stimulated and helped by the sun.
		But it were like taking away the good work the sun does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, a lot of people scoff at the reports of the thinned ozone.
		And I am not one of them.
		The scientific evidence gathered by our own satellites seems to be fairly comprehensive.
		Hold on a moment, Frank, we'll be right to you.
		Seems to be fairly comprehensive regarding the thinning of the ozone.
		And while I'm not a great believer in the warming theory, I have great doubts about that.
		I have not so many doubts about the thinning of the ozone.
		The ozone across North America, for example, over the last decade or so has thinned about 10%.
		I have that wrong.
		It may be a longer period of time, but it's the last 40 or 50 years, certainly.
		It has thinned about 10%.
		That has consequences.
		We are already feeling.
		We'll be right back.
		We all know information is what it's all about.
		800-830 CyberMed software, Joseph.
		And Frank, we've got time for one call, so let's take it.
		And when we get back at the top of the hour, everybody should get a pencil and paper.
		We're going to tell them how they can get your books.
		I don't know how you write so many.
		I wrote one.
		It almost killed me.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Frank Joseph.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm calling from Minnesota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Minnesota.
unidentified		Yeah, it's wonderful state up here.
unidentified		We're cold and chilly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off.
ted fraley ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'll take care.
unidentified		There we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, go ahead.
unidentified		Yeah, I was, um, Mr. Bell, you have a really good show.
ted fraley ▲ ● ▼		I listen to you every week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Yes, it's very interesting.
		I get a kick out of some of this stuff.
		And I was wondering, sir, what do you think?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sir, you still have your radio on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please turn it off all the way.
unidentified		Yes, it is off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
unidentified		Trust me, I turned it off.
unidentified		And I'm just curious if it actually is true or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I'm not sure how that question fits into anything you've been talking about.
		It does little.
		So I'll just turn it around, I guess, and say, Frank, what is your belief regarding UFOs?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, how about if I turn rod to Atlantis?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		That'd be quite a trick, eh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You twist it any way you want.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Okay, here it goes.
		Among the traditions, the peripheral traditions of Atlantis, are that they had flying craft.
		This is first mentioned in Edgar Casey, and it is the hardest pill for most Atlantis scholars to swallow.
		However, there are traditions amongst other peoples, especially the Hindu traditions, about what's something they called vimanas.
		And the vimana is the word for a kind of a flying machine, which is not exactly like you see in our skies today, which harnessed the power of the earth, taluric power, to create a kind of levitating device.
		Now, whether you want to believe this or not, I'm not quite sure I do.
		But it's nonetheless associated, I think, with a high technology that perhaps got fantasized after a while.
		But the Vimana nonetheless persists throughout Hindu literature, and there are even traditions in Peru.
		When I was in Peru last November, I heard some, which talked about how their ancestors, some of them, arrived from the great flood in flying craft, which they called Arichana, which means like the gold fire that flies through the sky.
		So take that for what you will.
		Maybe UFOs are man-made or were, and they've been around longer than we might be led to believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or maybe the ones that we experience today are ones that have always been around?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		There's another story, too.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Outside of Rock Lake, the place where I investigated, there is a large cross, or was a large earthwork in the shape of a perfect cross, like a gun site.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		And that no longer exists.
		It was wiped out.
		But interestingly enough, over that specific spot, there have been a rash of UFO sightings by people in Wisconsin.
		They have seen these craft.
		I mean, I think it's a good idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Frank, Frank, hold it, hold it.
		We'll get back to it.
		UFOs in Wisconsin as well as Atlantis.
		And we'll get back to all of this after the break news, top of the hour from the area near Dreamland.
unidentified		This is Dreamland.
unidentified		Many exercise machines, such as stationary bicycles, have the user move against a variable resistance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Other than the Boston Globe.
		So get ready for that.
		I know people think I'm off my nut a lot of times when I make comments about comets, but in addition to Hailbop, there is Swift Tuttle to be concerned about.
		And I'll tell you all about that in a moment.
		Absolutely fresh flowers, I will tell you about right now.
		It is a flower foreigner for astrophysics is predicting that comet Swift Tuttle could strike the Earth in the year 2126.
		Interesting year.
		Such a collision, Brian Marsden says, could possibly produce a cataclysmic impact more powerful than the one many scientists think wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago.
		He estimates, now you don't really have to worry here, he estimates the odds of such a strike at about 1 in 10,000, making it unlikely but certainly possible.
		he goes on to say one of these passes it will hit now one in ten thousand you say not a no the You might want to check into the odds of being hit by a truck, being struck by lightning, and a lot of other ways that one can demise.
		We're talking about here the demise of the entire human race, not one person.
		But if you want to talk about numbers, compare those numbers for that particular comet to the numbers of going in any one of many other ways.
		And I think you'll begin to follow me.
		And I thought that an interesting bit of documentation to back up what I was telling you a little bit earlier.
		All right, once again, the Sea Crane Company catalog drive underway.
		Last Chanceville here.
		Oh, here is Frank Joseph.
		And oh, oh, I've got something coming on immortality.
		A question, I've got another letter here from an immortal, somebody claiming to be immortal.
		And I think you're going to enjoy that.
		But right now, Frank Joseph, Frank, you have written a number of books, the latest of which is Atlantis in Wisconsin.
		Name the others, if you would, and then tell us how to get them.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, the two books that are available that are dealing with a subject we're discussing tonight are The Lost Pyramids of Rock Lake, which discusses this ancient city at the bottom of a lake in Wisconsin that has been authenticated and found.
		It's the only book on that subject.
		And its companion volume is called Atlantis in Wisconsin.
		They are actually two volumes of the same thing.
		The first volume, The Lost Pyramids of Rock Lake, tells the Indian stories about the structures of the bottom of the lake, and it also follows along our adventure in finding these things, how we found them, and has photographs of them.
		Atlantis in Wisconsin, that deals with the implications of this site with the question of Atlantis and how they brought the copper from Wisconsin, the Upper Peninsula, over to Europe.
		It describes how and when that was done.
		So what I'm doing is both books are sold together as a set over the radio.
		I'm going to do that here.
		I'm going to offer our listeners here a little bit of a discount.
		Individually, they have different prices.
		The Lost Pyramids of Rock Lake costs $10.95.
		And Atlantis in Wisconsin is $12.95.
		So I'm going to knock off $2 if they order both of them together.
		And they can order those books in this special deal on this show only by calling 1-800-777-3454.
		And when can they call?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can they call now?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		They can call anytime.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		It's a toll-free 24-hour number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1-800-777-3454.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that right?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		And if they do call from the show, then we're going to give them a $2 discount if they buy a set.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Here's them a free catalog, too, of all of our other titles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
		Okay.
		Here's one to go along with what I just said.
		Art, I'm sure you must know or ought to know that the astronomers are only attempting to get us afraid of asteroids, etc., in preparation for the arrival of, is it Nibiru?
		Nibiru?
		N-I-B-I-R-U.
		This is, of course, an interpretation, but I'm sure the establishment wouldn't want you to proceed in this direction.
		I don't know what all that means but about it what is No, no, I have no idea.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		But to follow up on what you said earlier about the chances of a collision with the Earth, many of your listeners are probably familiar with something called Behringer Crater.
		It's called Meteor Crater out in the southwest.
		And it's about a mile across.
		It was caused by a meteor, which scientists, by the way, for almost 100 years denied was caused by a meteor.
		And the date for that was always very vague.
		They thought it would happen maybe 20 or 50 or 100,000 years ago.
		Well, most recent dating for that, through simple stratigraphy, has shown that that impact, which took place, and you can see Visit Meteor Crater now in Behringer, was caused only 2,700 years ago.
		Now, that's not very long time ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's not.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		And especially geologic time, I mean, that's just as a wink of an eye.
		So perhaps, I mean, to say that there have been no major collisions that have damaged or destroyed civilizations in the past is ridiculous, because if that happened today, I think the effects on the southwest would be noticeable.
		It would be equivalent to a major nuclear event, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, actually, I've got quite a long letter, and I'm not going to read it, from somebody who claims to be an immortal.
		I'll hold this for coast on my regular syndicated program.
		So I'll let everybody look forward to that.
		In the meantime, though, I have had a number of people, one on the radio, who claimed to be immortal, Frank.
		I've had a number of faxes from people who claim to be immortal.
		That sounds pretty awful, actually.
		I know.
		I've thought same thing myself.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		St. Germain, has he written in, but, well, the soul is certainly immortal, our bodies are kind of unimportant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm afraid these people claim physical or near-physical immortality.
		Now, for example, in the letter I've got here, they claim, well, yes, we can be so scattered or heads can be taken off, and in that case, we're not immortal, but barring cataclysmic physical failure due to whatever cause, they are immortal.
		Now, I would think that such people are not truly immortal in the sense that they would not have made it through the kind of cataclysmic earth changes you and others have talked about.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, immortality is not the word that springs to mind to describe these people, quite honestly.
		so uh...
		i i really can't comment on that and i think really Well, no, I don't subscribe to any of those things, I'm afraid.
		My open-mindedness has certain limitations, I suppose.
		Well, in a rational world, you know, there can be psychological disorders that people can go through, things like that.
		explained in that way i suppose in terms of psychology but i'm afraid i'm not too well the interesting aspect of course of anybody who would actually be immortal would be they might be able to give you some insights into the That was exactly where I was going with that.
		Well, actually, we don't need them, though, actually, because we are bending our efforts very seriously to find the remains of this previous civilization.
		We've done a lot of hard work already in the Caribbean on Dimini.
		We're going to hopefully expand our research in the future to go investigate the Ampere Seamount that I mentioned earlier, that sunken volcanic island off the shores of North Africa, about 200 miles west of Gibraltar.
		And we're doing some serious hard work.
		It's not just theorizing, and that's what I've tried very hard to put into my books, to make Atlantis come alive for people that read about it.
		Not just facts, and it's not just a scholastic attempt or some wacko story.
		I've tried to assemble the material in the most credible and dramatic form, and that's why I'm anxious to share with people and get their reaction from it and show me where I'm wrong and correct it or to point me in the right direction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		People do that to me all the time.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Frank Joseph.
unidentified		Hello.
		Oh, hi, Art.
		I'm really enjoying Frank's show.
		Now, do you think any of the major earthquakes, Frank, lately were caused by a man-made device like HAARP in Mexico?
		I know I can answer that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		We'll see what we can do.
		HAARP has not been activated yet, to the best of my knowledge, so I doubt it's responsible.
		However, the French have been detonating nuclear weapons not far from Tahiti in the South Pacific.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		It's abominable.
		just an absolute obscenity.
		Can you imagine going to these There's an island called the Island of the Gods.
		That's what the Hawaiians call it.
		It's a beautiful island off the coast of the main island.
		And the United States Air Force has been carrying regular bombing missions on that, training missions on that island for the past 10 or 15 years.
		You know, and I think that I don't know.
		I can't see bombing something called the Island of the Gods in this paradise setting is something that's very good.
		And especially, you mentioned earlier the Ring of Fire.
		I mean, here we're sitting off, the French are sitting off of these major nuclear devices.
		I think it's incredible.
		We're playing with geologic forces of which we know very little, virtually nothing.
		And for us to assume that there's going to be no impact.
		And like the lady mentioned, we had this major earthquake in Mexico.
		Now, I'm not saying there's a connection, but maybe there is.
		And I don't think that it's wise.
		I mean, why?
		We've had the atom bomb for 50 years, more than that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, 7.6 on the Richter scale, that is a very serious earthquake.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		It's a very serious earthquake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it is one of a major series.
		And here we've got volcanoes going off.
		And I, too, I am not a rocket scientist, but I do imagine there's a possibility.
		I wouldn't call it playing.
		You detonate nuclear devices under the water.
		You're not playing.
		You're doing something funny.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		And we're not talking about one.
		We're talking about a series of major devices set off in a seismically active zone.
		Now, I mean, common sense would tell me there's going to be repercussions to that, to say nothing of the marine life destroyed, the ecological obscenity that takes place.
		We're doing precisely the same things that the Atlanteans did in their arrogance, thinking, oh, we can do anything we want.
		We can show off our power.
		And what happened is the Earth rebelled.
		The Earth rebelled and destroyed the Atlanteans, tore down their civilization, wiped most of them out, so that they are only a mythological memory now.
		And that is going to happen to us unless we learn from that historical parallel.
		That's what I try to push harder in my work than anything else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you either straighten out our act or we will one day be a mythological memory.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		You got it.
		That's it.
		People 5,000 years from now are going to be saying, oh, America and Europe, those are just myths.
		Just because we have refrigerators and airplanes, believe me, is no claim on immortality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe there won't even be the Empire State Building sticking up out of the sand and water washing ashore as in that movie once.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Frank Joseph and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi, I'm calling from Palm Springs.
		Yes.
		Yes.
		Some time ago, I read a book.
		It's an older book by Charles Berlitz.
		Are you familiar with him?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Charles has done wonderful work.
unidentified		Yes, and there were some amazing photographs in that book, underwater photographs.
		I'm not sure where they were taken.
		I think they were in the Mediterranean.
		I'm not sure, the Caribbean somewhere.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's the island that I mentioned earlier.
		It's called Dimini.
		Oh, right.
		A few miles off the coast of Miami, as a matter of fact.
		And yeah, he reproduced some wonderful photographs in there of the so-called road or wall.
unidentified		Yeah, and it was just these huge monolithic blocks of stone that were just set so tightly, you know, to the blade of a knife couldn't fit through them.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		There are new finds being made down there all the time.
		The last expedition that went down there found pieces of granite.
		Now that's interesting because granite does not appear in that part of the Caribbean.
		The nearest granite would be South Carolina.
		So obviously the thing is made and fitted together.
		It also terminates in a J-form, which fits perfectly into a kind of a refuge for sailing ships.
		The Bimini Wall is also located in the exact spot where the Canary Island Current, which sweeps across from North Africa and straight across the ocean, turns.
		So that if you were going to go back, say, from Europe, you would ride that current, followed up the East Coast, and go back to Europe.
		And that spot is right where that turn is.
		Maybe your last possible landfall.
unidentified		Right.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		So it makes a great deal of sense.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		And of course, archaeologists, you know, they're not willing to rewrite their textbooks.
unidentified		I wonder, is there any connection with the Bermuda Triangle and the supposedly some people say there's some sort of an energy source that may be?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is true.
		All right.
		Thank you, ma'am.
		Very good question.
		Actually, considering the area and the Bermuda Triangle and all the weird things that have occurred, could there be a connection?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there definitely is, and I think that it was pretty well shown what it is.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		It is part of the Atlantean story because in the area of the Bermuda Triangle, there are two what is known as deep-sea holes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute, Frank.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is a great hook.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stay right there.
		We've got to break.
		The Bermuda Triangle, a connection.
		Stay where you are.
		In my book, Lee.
		Incredible.
		All right.
		Now, back to the subject of the Bermuda Triangle.
		You say there is a connection to what's below the water.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Right, there definitely is.
		And the phenomenon that has been taking place in the Bermuda Triangle is definitely real.
		It's too long for me to go into at this point, but most of the things the audience has heard about it are a legitimate phenomenon.
		I have known people that have lived there, that have worked there.
		It's real.
		What is causing it?
		Two deep-sea holes were found there and written about in one of the best books on Atlantis.
		It's called The Secret of Atlantis by Otto Mook.
		And Otto Mook was a German rocket scientist, one of the leading physicists, as a matter of fact, in the 1940s and 50s.
		Well, anyway, he wrote a book called The Secret of Atlantis, and he identified these two deep-sea holes, which are pretty much in the general vicinity of the middle of the Permian Triangle, that were caused by an asteroid that split in two as it streaked over North America and buried itself nine miles deep in the ocean floor.
		Now those asteroids contain some of the largest concentration of pure nickel iron in the world, and that is what is probably causing the magnetic and other anomalies that are taking place there as it interfaces with the other geologic forces like seismic activity, telluric activity, working on nickel iron.
		Like when an earthquake is about to take place, all the pressure develops in the epicenter.
		And that is where these large deposits of nickel iron are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		Frank, we've got to hold it there.
		You've heard of Comet Hailbob?
		Oh, you haven't heard about Hailbob, huh?
		We just got a report.
		We'll talk about it when we come back, that a large piece or chunk of hailbob has broken off.
		Fascinating.
		This is Dreamland.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		1-800-618-T-A-L-K.
		First time callers, area code 702-727-1295 in the 702 area code.
		Now again, here's Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, here I am again.
		Frank Joseph is my guest, author of Atlantis in Wisconsin, we've been talking about so very much, and we'll get back to it in just a second.
		As well as that piece you separate from Comet Hailbop.
		A couple of faxes.
		One of them very important.
		Dear Art, what have we missed?
		It's 11.30 here in Ohio, and our Indians have finally beat Seattle for a 3-2 game lead.
		After much extra inning chat, you're finally on the air.
		We need to know how to get your book.
		What is the four-digit pin number?
		Now, that's a little cryptic, but I know what it means, and it's bad news.
		You see, what happened is, in our newsletter, in my newsletter, they did a wonderful, wonderful ad for my new book, The Art of Talk.
		I mean, wonderful.
		It was beautiful.
		Only one minor problem with it.
		They put the wrong number in to order the book.
		So, my friend in Ohio, they put the wrong number.
		That is, disregard that number.
		There is only one number that you can call to get my book, and I'm going to give it to you right now.
		So write it down.
		And I want everybody to know that the number in the newsletter, I'm so sorry, is wrong.
		It was a comedy, a tragedy of errors, but it's wrong.
		And this person reminded me because when you call the wrong number, you get the little thing that says, give us a four-digit pin number.
		So don't call that number.
		You'll go nuts.
		The only number to get the art of talk, and you better do it before Wednesday at midnight, otherwise you're not going to get a first edition.
		They're about gone.
		My publisher says it's going absolutely nuts.
		The only number is this one, 1-800-864-7991.
		You can call that right now or keep calling until you're able to get through.
		1-800-864-7991.
		Now, I've got a fax for you, Frank.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But first, I really would like to...
		Comet Hale-Bop.
		Have you heard about it?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not familiar with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		It is a newly discovered comet by two men, one named Hale, one named Bop, amateur astronomers, which do discover comets more frequently than not.
		Yes, they do.
		When it's so bright out beyond the orbit of Jupiter, you may want to look into this that at first they thought it might be as wide as 1,000 miles.
		It has a corona or a dust particle corona around it, 2.5 million kilometers wide.
		Later research has shown it, or they're guessing it now to be about 100 miles in diameter.
		It will miss Earth by as much as 1.5 AU, which is quite a bit, but they're saying it will be probably the astronomical event of all time.
		A piece of it has just been seen to break off, which is one-third the brightness of the comet itself.
		Remarkable.
		And all of that is headed our way.
		Not for a collision, I repeat, but headed in our direction.
		So there's a lot going on out there.
		Now, here's the facts.
		Edgar Casey said a main cause of the destruction of Atlantis was a disagreement over the semi-human life forms that they created.
		Did those creatures have souls?
		Could they be owned as property?
		It reminds me of the current question about whether or not life forms can be patented.
		He said, we have, in our society, a second chance to handle technology well rather than blow ourselves up.
		That's from Margaret in Bellevue, Washington.
		I've been interviewing people on nanotechnology, and they tell me, Frank, we're going to be able to create life eventually.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, we're just beginning to have something called genetic engineering, aren't we?
		I mean, the end of the 20th century, and if we're allowed to continue, I'm sure there's going to be just incredible advances to come.
		I don't think it's necessarily an evil or a wicked thing.
		It's just like any science.
		It's just like the Promethean fire that was given to us.
		It can either cook our food or it can burn our house, depending on how we're going to use it.
		So I don't think intrinsically it's an evil thing.
		It depends upon the human spirit behind it.
		Genetic engineering, I think, can be extremely good for regenerating new organs and extending life, not quite to the immortals, but certainly well beyond 100 years.
		So I think it's possible, and yes, there are indications that this technology was known a very, very long time ago.
		Like I said, our civilization was destroyed, and it has been reinvented, and I think science is only just beginning to understand that.
		The name of that civilization was Atlantis.
		That's why it seared itself into the subconscious of literally the world's population.
		I mean, you have this known around the world.
		And an event like this had to have been of great, great consequence.
		And what I've tried to do is to show how it reacted and worked right here, right in America, specifically in the Middle West, but impacted our country.
		And that's the twist I've tried to put on it.
		I don't deal in general theories.
		I tried to show, through documentation and clear logic as I possibly can.
		I've devoted my life to this.
		This is an obsession with me in a way.
		And I travel around the world.
		I try to look at things realistically, and I see, I picked up the trail, and it leads right back to America.
		I think that's a wonderful historical parallel going on here.
		I mean, we're seeing Atlantis in America.
		It's not just in Wisconsin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May I ask?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		We've got to learn from it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to ask a personal question.
		You said you're obsessed with it.
		I am an obsessive, compulsive type myself, Frank, so I understand that.
		Why are you obsessed with it?
unidentified		Well, there's a lot of answers for that.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		I just think personally that it explains an awful lot.
		I think Atlantis is not just something in the past, which it explains, it clarifies a lot of.
		It's a great comment, I think, on what we are now, and it illuminates the future.
		And we're living in a very, very tough age.
		We're standing on the edge of a precipice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I know that age.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		And we can either leap off that precipice and fall to our utter destruction or fly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have used that exact same phrase.
		We stand on a precipice.
		I believe it to be true.
		This is a special moment, a good time to be alive.
		And it may well be that everybody said that in their lifetime for as long as we've been walking around.
		But if I know anything, I know that we're at some kind of special moment.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		It really appears to be that way.
		And I believe that many people feel the same as you, that there is a general sense that there is a great change coming.
		And we're going to have to meet that in a dignified and intelligent way or just try to scramble for ourselves and commit the same mistakes over and over again.
		History does repeat itself.
		The great tragedy is that we never learn from it.
		And hopefully that's why shows like yours and books like mine will try in a general sort of way to shift consciousness so that we can learn from it and see that these things did happen.
		Well, it did happen again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, Frank, if it depends on social trends, if it depends on the behavior, in other words, of mankind, in other words, which way off this precipice we're going to go, I'm sorry, but looking at current behavior, trends, from the nuclear detonations to whatever else you want to talk about, the crime, the blank, soulless stares of children who kill children and others, we're going off the wrong side.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think what it means, no, I don't think so.
		I think it means that, yes, there's a big purge coming.
		There is a big change.
		I don't think it's going to be achieved peacefully, no.
		And maybe not in our lifetimes, maybe.
		But I think this all indicates that, yes, there's going to be a great change, and we're going to wake up from it, those of us that survive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're an optimist.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		There's the survivors of Atlantis, and now there's going to be the survivors of the 20th century.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're an optimistic kind of guy, and I would never hold that against you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wish I shared it.
unidentified		Oh, well, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Frank Joseph.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, this is Austin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Austin, Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Fascinating guest.
		Wonderful.
		You should definitely have him back again.
		Okay.
		The question I have, first of all, is was Atlantis as technologically advanced as we are today?
		And when I say technology, they may have had a different type of technology.
		But as far as knowing about who we are and who the universe is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we'll start with that, but I'd like to ask about space travel.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't believe they had space travel.
		I don't think there's any indication of that.
		I agree with this gentleman 100%.
		Yes, they had a technology that was at least the equal of ours and then more advanced in some ways, but it was of a different type of technology.
		We have evolved electronic and atomic technology.
		I do not believe they had that to much of a degree.
		Perhaps electronics to some small degree.
		But their science appears to have been based on a very close observation of natural forces and that they used these natural forces coupled with their genius to achieve great scientific things.
		One of them, for example, the creation of the Great Pyramid.
		Now, I cannot get into that, that's a huge subject, but I believe, I'm not the only researcher who's done this, by the way, I can't claim that, but many researchers I'm talking about, like Fix and Bobal, have shown that the Great Pyramid was built by Atlanteans who had a superb technology that definitely shows in advance of our own, because the Great Pyramid cannot be duplicated by our technology.
		So yes, they did have a superior technology in some regards.
		It was also based, as Casey said, on the recognition of the ultimate power, which we don't have.
		The ultimate power is spiritual power, not atomic power, electronic power.
		And they harnessed, the Atlanteans harnessed that spiritual power somehow and put it towards material ends.
		And it was okay as far as it went.
		But when it was turned to greed, they destroyed themselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, fortunately, we don't have greed here on Earth now.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		No, well, that's part of the human condition.
		There's nothing even wrong with being greedy or materialistic.
		It's just as a matter of balance.
		How much of it?
		I mean, there's always going to be elements like that.
		That's all fine.
		But it's just as when those values predominate and become tyrannical over our civilization that that society is doomed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so we don't have any of that, so we don't have any.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Say we don't have any of it.
		It's just it's predominating now.
		We're going to have a kind of a cultural pole shift before we have the real thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A cultural pole shift.
		I'll remember that one.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Frank Joseph High.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Excuse me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, I have two questions.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Do you know what the pyramid on the back of the dollar bill with the eye represents?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that is a Masonic symbol.
		That's the all-seeing eye of wisdom.
		But it's interesting that it's located at the top of the pyramid, isn't it?
		The apex.
		That's called the Pyramidian.
		And that is like the all-seeing eye.
		So some people say the Masons have all these old traditions.
unidentified		I don't know.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		I'm not a Mason, but this is very possible.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		But that's a Masonic symbol, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Next question.
unidentified		And what was the purpose of the creation of the pyramid?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		The Great Pyramid in Egypt, you mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any pyramid.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Not just any pyramid because they differ.
		I will tell you about this.
		I've never mentioned this on the air yet in public.
		It's a new book that I'm writing.
		It will be coming out, and I will have it discussed there.
		But I believe that the creation of the Great Pyramid was not as a tomb.
		The creation of the Great Pyramid was, according to the Arabs, and I believe this, as a machine.
		It is a device that still operates, and I can demonstrate how.
		It is a device used to prevent seismic activity.
		It was built to prevent the destruction of Atlantis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you familiar with Richard Hoagland?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you familiar with his theories with regard to tetrahedral physics?
unidentified		Yes, that's right.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		I've studied his tapes and his books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you know the way he feels about the pyramids, and I think that he now carries a theory that parallels yours that says that cataclysmic geographic geologic activity can in fact be prevented by the use of pyramidal technology at the right points on the Earth.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely correct.
		Let me just say this real quick.
		Most people don't realize that the Great Pyramid, the most massive building, most perfect building ever made on Earth, sits at the very center of the world's landmass.
		That means that if you took all of the latitudinal and longitudinal lines, they would cross directly over the Great Pyramid.
		The Great Pyramid embodies all of the elements of the Earth, and it is used as a transducer.
		A transducer is a simple device invented, reinvented in the last century to take mechanical power and transform it into electrical power.
		I believe that is what the Great Pyramid was built as, as a geologic transducer.
		The Atlanteans saw the tremendous catastrophe coming.
		They went to the very absolute center of the world's landmass and created the Great Pyramid as a transducer.
		I know it's a fantastic thing to talk about.
		The gentleman asked the question.
		I have to answer him as quickly and succinctly as I can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate your doing that first on my program, Frank.
		Hold on just a second.
		We'll be right back.
		This is Dreamland.
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		Well, okay.
		Not a lot of time left.
		Frank, you have been so damn good that I'm liable to try to invite you into a session on something called Coast to Coast AM, which I do during the week.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		I'd be honored to be on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would, huh?
		Well, that means that you have to stay.
		Where is it you are again?
		I'm sorry.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I am in St. Paul, Minnesota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Minnesota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, Frank, were I to do that, you would be up very, very late.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm used to that.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		I'm a night crawler by nature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're a night crawler.
		Well, we crawl in the night.
		I'll tell you that.
		All right.
		Very good.
		I want also to give you another opportunity to plug your book, so plug.
		Thank you.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		If anybody is interested in either Atlantis in Wisconsin or the Lost Pyramids of Rock Lake, these are two volumes discussing the same things we've been talking about here.
		They can order them from Galdi Press.
		Here's the number.
		It's 1-800-777-3454.
		You get a free catalog, and anybody calling in from this show gets a $2 discount if they buy the two as a set.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's an awfully good deal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Give the number one more time.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the number is 1-800-777-3454, and it's 24 hours a day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air with Frank Joseph.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Mark from Collinsville, on TechCal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Collinsville, Illinois.
unidentified		Yes, Art, what was your source on the Hillbop breakaway?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
		It would take me a few minutes to dig it up.
		It's the London, I believe it's the London Observatory.
		I read it on the show.
		If you're going to get a repeat of my co-show tonight beginning about an hour after this, I'll dig it out.
		I'll have it for you tomorrow night.
		But I did read it on the coast show, so listen for that.
unidentified		Okay, Mr. Joseph.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I assume you are familiar with the research of Sacrifice Section and the six books that he has written?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir, I am.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		I've read them all.
unidentified		But you're not familiar with Nebrask?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		I don't recall that offhand.
		It's been some time since I've read his books.
		I have this terrible habit of sort of sorting out those things that I can't use at the moment.
		And it's the type of books that I have to go back into.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then let's let him help us both out.
		I don't know what it is either.
		Is that the 12th planet?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know that that is a mythological term which Sitchin uses to define, yes, I'm asking the caller, Frank.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		It is the 12th planet.
		Considering that the Sumerians were exposing the cradle of civilization, could you connect this Atlantean race to the ancient Anuki that the Sumerians referred to?
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I think so.
		The Sumerians also have the deluge myth.
		You can find it in the Gilgamesh epic where they talk about Udnashketim, who came from this island that was sinking and is one of the survivors of this flood.
		I think the Sumerians were definitely people who grew up through contacts between the Atlanteans.
		As they arrived in Mesopotamia, they intermarried with the natives and produced the Sumerians.
		The same thing happened in America.
		The same thing happened in the Nile Valley.
		So when we see these civilizations, they are basically similar.
		They have similar stories, but there are tremendous differences.
		And I think that's because you have this large-scale intermixing going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Frank, we're out of time.
		It has been an absolute pleasure.
		I mean, really the pleasure having you on.
		You're full information, obviously much more than we could get to in this relatively short amount of time.
		And so we're going to invite you on Coast to Coast AM, and I'll be getting back to you on that.
		In the meantime, I hope you sell a zillion of your books.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you very much, Art.
		I am very grateful for the opportunity to get on, and I consider it really an honor to be on the show, which has such a wonderful following and very intelligent questions tonight.
		It was a great pleasure for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They are good people.
		They're a bright audience.
		Frank, thank you.
frank joseph ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		That's Frank Joseph, author of Atlantis in Wisconsin and much more.
		And he was very, to put it lightly, electrifying.
		So we'll have him back.
		All right, a couple of final trailing thoughts.
		One of them is the Seacrane Company Catalog Drive.
		This is my last live opportunity to tell you.
		It's now or never.
		The catalog drive ends tomorrow morning as the weekend ends.
		So it's now or never.
		You want Sea Crane Company catalog?
		You call now and keep calling until you get through at 1-800-522-8863.
		1-800-522-8863.
		The other item is, if you want a copy of tonight's incredible program, we have one waiting for you right now.
		Simply call 1-800-917-4278.
		Or to get a copy of Friday Night, Saturday morning show, same number, or for our newsletter, same number, 1-800-917-4278.
		Thank you all, as usual, from America's great southwest and the high deserts.
		Near Dreamland, I'm Art Bell.
		Good night.
		This has been Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped.
		Yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.

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