Linda Moulton Howe and Frank Joseph dive into chilling Bigfoot encounters—1956’s anti-human scream in California and 1989’s silver-cone mystery in Washington—while Frank shifts to Atlantis, arguing it thrived in Wisconsin’s Rock Lake and Isle Royale, not the Atlantic, citing underwater pyramids and Bronze Age collapse ties. He links Atlantean tech to seismic transducers and warns of modern hubris mirroring their civilization’s downfall, fueled by greed and a meteor cloud catastrophe. History’s repeating unless humanity heeds Atlantis’ lessons, with both guests fearing a violent cultural shift ahead. [Automatically generated summary]
Well, since I did that Bigfoot story with the audio tape of the Erie screams recorded near Snohomish, Washington in the 1970s, I have received several more encounter reports, including your facts last week.
And I want to share excerpts from two of them tonight along with a replay of That Bigfoot screen.
The first story is from Ted Fraley of Carson City, Nevada, who has been haunted by an encounter he had while deer hunting with a friend 35 miles east of Reading, California in the fall of 1956.
He said it is in his memory etched as if it happened yesterday.
It frightened him so much.
It was around 10 p.m. and the two men were shining flashlights around to see.
Well, recently, in July 1989, Skip Farmbach of Seattle was visiting a mining claim near Darrington, Washington, a logging town in the foothills of the North Cascade Mountain Range, and he heard sounds that he said were like somebody pounding with a hammer, like building something in the forest, and then something came down from the mountain.
Fell off an 80-foot cliff, down through the trees, busting branches on its way, hit the ground, fell on a pile of granite boulders that were covered with, I'd say, a two-inch layer of moss, bounced off those boulders, and rolled 150 feet down a hillside and landed at my feet.
It was just laying there in a heap, and all I had with me was a .22 caliber pistol.
So here I am on a hillside with a bear laying there dead on the ground or unconscious on the ground.
And I'm wondering what I'm going to do next.
If I'm going to die, if I'm going to be mauled to where I can't make it back to the car.
And while all these things are going through my head and I'm making amends with my maker, the thing starts to move.
And then I'm forced into a decision of what to do next.
Trying to stay rational, I decided the best move I could make would be to fire a shot over its head.
Hopefully that would scare it.
And in the instant that it ran one way, I would run downhill and escape it.
Well, it didn't work that way.
When I fired the shot over its head, it was almost completely vertical.
What I saw happen there was I saw a hand go out from its left side.
It rolled kind of slightly onto its right side as that hand came out.
Then it rolled over to its left side a little bit, put another hand out to its other side, and it stood up vertically, just like a man would do in a helping manner from a laying down position.
Kind of like a push-up almost.
Stood straight up, turned around, it had its back toward me this whole time.
Turned around, looked me straight in the eye, then turned back around after the shot went off, and walked down the trail away from me, like I wasn't even there.
What I saw, and here's the part that really has me concerned.
This creature, when it rolled onto its left side and put its arm out, now I was seeing the right side of its back of its head.
I could have swore that I heard like a servo-type whine.
Do you know what that sounds like?
That kind of sounds that a servo makes that's actuating an electric device.
I could have swore that I saw or heard that sound and that I saw a silver cone come out of the side of that thing's head.
But now, there's the problem.
I can't remember if that was actually on the hillside or if that was one of the dreams that I had because I had nightmares for three years over this thing.
And anyway, to finish the story, it got up, walked away.
Oh, when it turned around, okay, I'll give you a full description of the creature.
From the back side, the hair on the back of its head grew into a tapered cape down to about the middle of its back.
And I would say that that hair looked to be about 24 inches long, and it, of course, grew from different areas down its neck, but it was 24 inches long as it grew down.
So I'd call it completely dark, shiny black.
It looked synthetic to me when I first saw it.
Over the rest of its body, the hair was about three inches long.
Its face was completely hair-covered, except for the area right around its eyes, and the area on the bridge of its nose had a little bit of skin showing.
And that skin was kind of a ruddy-brown pine cone color.
And it had very deep wrinkles under its eyes and across the bridge of its nose, quite a bit like some of the orangutans or the apes, the bigger apes.
Its eyes were very deep set and just like coal black marbles in its head.
Very deep, dark, and sinister looking, I guess you'd say.
Anyway, it walked out of sight, and I was standing there thinking, well, I'm no better off now, even though it's gone, because the only way I know off of this mountain is the way it went, which means I'm going to have to go that way also.
And I walked down the trail in the direction that it had left, and now it was about five minutes after I had seen this thing.
And as I got farther down the trail, I was breathing a sigh of relief because I figured, well, it's gone.
There's no sign of it here anywhere.
I just turned around and looked, and I saw it break over the crest of the hill and run toward me.
Came down at about a 45-degree angle on the hillside toward me and ran as fast as it could through those bushes.
I saw trees pushed aside.
I saw trees float in the air.
I saw rocks fly in my direction.
Moss, sticks, twigs, everything seemed to be floating in the air behind me as this thing came towards me.
And I ran with every inch of my life down that hillside.
I slipped, slid down on a fairly flat sloped rock, went down underneath the vegetation and down into a clay-type pit, a small cave-type thing in the ground.
By the time I climbed back out of the inside of that through a small opening in the underbrush, I looked behind me and I could still see the trees moving along the hillside as this thing ran back and forth in a zigzag pattern along the hillside looking for me.
Well, he managed to get away, but he's gone back repeatedly to check the site and has told me in effect today that he has found huge footprints in the area and grass mats inside the mine tunnels suggesting that whatever the Bigfoot was, it's still there somewhere, Art.
All right, that's Linda Howe, generally acknowledged to be the world's expert on crop circles, animal mutilations, and now seriously investigating Bigfoot.
I never in my life will forget that screen.
Anybody who's ever heard it, I don't know about you.
North American trading, for quite some time on this program, has been saying the currency was going to change.
Well, voila, the currency is changing.
Now, they announced in the little blurb they sent me that somehow the Treasury Department has said they're not going to collect the old currency.
Melinda, I don't think I'd have taken a 30-30 shot at Bigfoot.
I tell you, I deal in this kind of materials, you know, all the time, and that scream sets me on edge.
I just, there's something about the frequency and the shrillness of it that is so anti-human.
Anyway, in a moment, Frank Joseph coming up.
A couple of things for you first.
So much to do.
Laprina is, well, let's see.
Aspirin is good.
I take aspirin.
I'm able to take Amisin.
Aspirin, and I take anisin.
That's no free commercial for anisin.
It's just the truth.
You know, if I've got a headache, it works.
In fact, I prefer aspirin as a painkiller to the stuff that cautions you not to drive while you're on it.
You know, for me, aspirin works very well, and for most humans, it does.
Why nobody has ever thought of this before is totally beyond me.
It's Latrina, and a lot of people can't take aspirin.
Sometimes it'll even give me kind of a burning feeling in my belly.
And so imagine this, aspirin in a spray can.
Now think about that.
Doesn't that make sense?
If you've got a sore knee, a sore shoulder, a sore back, the way I do so many times, instead of taking pills, which are slower acting anyway, laprina, kind of like the nicotine patch that goes on your arm, laprina sprays on and goes directly, is absorbed into your skin and goes to the exact area that you want to affect.
It's an incredible idea, and to me it is incredible that nobody thought of it till right now.
So, to order the Srina.
And Frank Joseph.
After completing studies at Southern Illinois University School of Journalism, Frank Joseph was a staff reporter for the Chicago Area Periodicals, like the Winnetka Paper.
He also has been a featured writer and book reviewer for several national publications, including Fate, Aviation Heritage, Pilot Careers, and so forth.
Today, he is editor-in-chief of the Ancient American, a four-color bi-monthly magazine of alternative archaeology.
He is a member of the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago, as well as the Ancient Earthworks Society of the University of Wisconsin at Madison.
While traveling in Africa, Europe, Central, and South America, following clues to lost civilizations, he co-authored Destruction of Atlantis, Adams Press, Sacred Sites, The Lost Pyramids of Rock Lake, and Atlantis In Wisconsin, both with, I believe it's a Galt Press in Minnesota.
A veteran scuba diver, Frank Joseph, is a frequent guest lecturer throughout the Midwest.
We've got him here tonight.
And I've got his book.
And let me read you just before we go to him.
Gunnar Thompson, a Ph.D. at the University of Hawaii, wrote of the book, Frank Joseph makes a strong case for the existence of an ancient memorial center now submerged beneath Rock Lake, Wisconsin.
His fascinating investigation into long history of the mysterious rock pyramids beneath the waves, the predictable bungling by so-called academic experts, and recent discoveries by scuba divers make for an exciting voyage into America's pre-Columbian heritage.
Atlantis, I always thought somehow in the back of my mind, maybe this is just ridiculous, but I'd always thought it was somewhere between America and Africa or something and sank into the Atlantic Ocean.
It is a traditional story, and it is the correct one.
Oh!
The idea behind the title for my book, Atlantis in Wisconsin, is to show that not the city of Atlantis was located there, but that the Atlanteans, in fact, came to American shores and specifically used a spot in Wisconsin, which I'll talk about later, as a very important part of the copper trade or the Bronze Age.
The actual city of Atlantis itself, all indications show that it was a very great and splendid and powerful city located about 200 miles due west of the Straits of Gibraltar.
It was not a continent.
It was a large-size island, which over time sank.
And in its final destruction was a very violent volcanic eruption, which destroyed the island totally and sank the island.
I think Atlantis will be around and remembered long after all that nonsense.
But, no, as far as the evidence is concerned, trying to explain that or prove that, even on a wonderful radio show like this, is like trying to build a battleship between sunrise and sunset.
But there are some things that I think I can provide.
One of the things that I think is particularly interesting is that the date associated for the destruction of Atlantis, the true and proper date after the Greek figures have been scaled down correctly, is about 1200 B.C. And 1200 B.C. is a very pivotal time in ancient history because up until that time there was something known as the Bronze Age.
It was filled with great civilizations in Turkey like the Hittite civilization, the Mycenaean Greeks, Homer's Greeks were strong.
Troy was a major city.
Egypt was at its height under Ramesses III.
And after 1200 BC, all those civilizations were shattered and Egypt had gone in decline.
What is interesting about that time also is that we know that there was a major volcanic eruption at that time.
And it appears that this coincides directly with what Plato told us about, that the Atlantis was destroyed in 1198 BC.
That is the final destruction for the island and city of Atlantis.
And I think that is, from that point on, we can move to some wonderful particulars.
Before we do, though, there is a most unusual amount of volcanism going on right now, Frank.
And I think you're going to make the case for lost civilizations, ones that may have disappeared because of volcanism.
And I don't want to scare anybody, but we've got volcanoes going off all the way around the Ring of Fire right now, including, well, I'm not even going to bother going through the list.
It's almost all the way around the Ring of Fire.
Frank, are we going through some sort of repeat cycle?
I would definitely say we are, and this fits in directly with what we're talking about in Atlantis, because we are told to all of the traditions, which I've been collecting now since 1980, and the readings of Edgar Casey, which have proved to be incredibly correct, show that the Atlanteans reached a high level of civilization and technology, but that they abused that technology.
They interfered with the forces of nature, upset those forces, and precipitated their own destruction.
I see the great parallel taking place now.
The Atlanteans were not just somebody located on an island.
They were a worldwide civilization.
They were the first worldwide civilization, and now that is pretty much what we are becoming.
There was almost a total erasure, but it has seared its way into the folk Consciousness of dozens of people around the world who are by no means connected with each other who tell the same story of a great flood from which their ancestors arrived to recreate civilization on foreign shores after most of the original people were destroyed in a horrible cataclysm of fire and water.
And I think this is the great lesson of Atlantis, not that it is just interesting historically parallel for our time.
And he's different than Casey in that he doesn't, he's not transmedium to the extent that Casey was, that Mr. Scallon is also a highly educated man.
He's able to watch the patterns.
Whereas Edgar Casey was actually a very unsophisticated man, came from the hills of Kentucky originally, and was a very pure-hearted and very decent man.
And the things that he spoke were true channeling, I feel.
One of the few true channels that have ever existed.
All right, hold tight for just a second, Frank, and we'll be right back to you.
I want to read this to my Dreamland audience because I believe I owe it to you.
Gordon Michael Scallion was on my program.
And I find, I, of course, invited him back, and I spoke with his office last week, and I got a fax from Gordon Michael Scallion, and I find it very chilling.
I would like to simply read it to you as it is, and you can make of it what you want.
It's short.
Dear Art, as you might imagine, with all that's going on in the, quote, ring, end quote, I've been swamped.
I did want to get back to you and thank you for the offer to be on Coast to Coast again.
At the present time, my guidance tells me, wait.
I realize how difficult it is with so much going on and so many people wanting to know what's next.
However, following my guidance is what allows me to receive prophetic information, and I must trust my inner source.
I have no new information to share at this time, and my prophecies for 1995 continue to stand as presented in the January issue of ECR and your program.
Should I receive any updates that could save lives, I will notify all media sources who can reach those in areas that may be affected.
By the way, I meant to mention in my new book, The Art of Talk, there are a couple of the very best of Linda Howe's photographs of crop circles.
Very, very good.
The whole book is full of photographs.
It's not a photo essay, but there are a lot of photographs in there, and you're going to love them.
Very clear, very well done.
This book has truly, truly exceeded my expectations, and I'm very excited to have it in my hand.
I have my own problem.
I just had, I pay for books too.
And I just had to order 20 more myself.
This is on top of the 40 books that I got to start with.
Everybody I know, and you must stop, is coming to me.
I can't afford it to get a copy of the book.
If you want a first edition copy, they're waiting.
They're going to be gone.
The deadline's Wednesday at midnight.
You can order right now, but you dare not wait.
The number to order the Art of Talk is 1-800-864-7991.
It's open right now.
1-800-864-7991.
Now, we blew the trunk lines out in Fortuna, California for the second time this weekend.
If you want the free catalog, almost book from C-Crane Company, the catalog, the Bible of radio, I call it, you call right now and before tomorrow or you'll miss out.
1-800-522-8863.
1-800-522-8863.
NBC reported over the weekend that there have been long-distance trunking problems to the West Coast, and I'm afraid we may have been the ones.
Now, one more item, GMX, GMX, GMX.
It is magnetic water conditioning.
It removes scaling from your pipes that otherwise will build in your system, kind of like cholesterol in your veins, eventually bringing on not the doctor, but the plumber.
This will tell us, and the anthropologists will tell us, that the only people living in the upper Great Lakes were what they call Paleo-Indians or Archaeo-Indians, and not even many of those.
These were people of an unsophisticated level.
They were hunter-gatherers, and their interest in copper was of only a decorative nature.
They used to pick up what is known as float copper, pieces of copper left behind by the glacier.
But the mining that took place abruptly, there is no indication that the mining, which is still intact, by the way, it is still there.
You can visit it on Isle Royale, which is this large island in Lake Superior, which is not often visited because it's hard to reach, but the ancient mining is still there, and their ancient tools are still there.
Upwards of more than a million hammerstones, beautifully made hammerstones, have already been found, many more than a million.
All right, what do we know about the technology, or what can we surmise about the technology that would have been required to remove that volume of copper?
It is known that the technology that was used to remove That copper, for example, like digging down 60 feet through solid rock, was not obtained until the 18th century.
Now, to answer your question earlier, why would they remove this copper?
Well, in order for you to make bronze, you have to have copper.
Not only ordinary copper, high-grade copper.
And with that copper, you combine it with zinc and tin in a skillful way, and you create bronze.
Now, what does that mean?
Bronze means that if you have a sword made of bronze, you have a superior weapons technology that will beat anything else of your opponents.
Now, while this mining was going on, 3000 BC to 1200 BC in America, all this huge amount of copper, which disappeared, the Bronze Age simultaneously began in Europe.
And there are no large natural copper deposits in Europe.
There are a few, very few, and not enough ever to supply the prodigious amounts of copper that were used and needed by all the civilizations of the ancient world.
And the mining in America stopped at precisely the same time that the Bronze Age ended in Europe.
In between, Plato tells us that this great metal-working, seafaring civilization of Atlantis was destroyed 1200 BC.
So here we have this one date defining three major events.
The end of the copper mining working in America, the end of the Bronze Age in Europe, and the end of destruction, and the final destruction of Atlantis in the middle, which was the arbiter of this great copper mining enterprise.
What I am curious about, again, though, is if this lost civilization was utterly destroyed, not just Atlantis, but what had sprung from it worldwide, why are you confident or even hopeful, based on current conditions and predictions and all the rest of it, that we're going to come through whatever cycle appears prepared to repeat itself somewhat intact?
I should mention, though, correct you there a little bit, although Atlantis itself was totally annihilated and may or may not be found as our own technology develops, the civilizations that it left behind in other parts of the world are certainly intact, and our ruins definitely exist and can be pointed to as identifiably Atlantean.
So the evidence is really quite strong.
I don't mean to say that there's only circumstantial.
There is plenty of hard physical evidence that we don't have a street sign.
I think that some of their genes have survived all this time.
The best example of that, I'd say, were the Basque people of the Pyrenees in Spain and France, who are a European people but speak a language which is not Indo-European and who have traditions about their ancestors coming from what they call the Green Isle, the Green Island or Green Isle, which was this beautiful, magnificent city on a green island far out in the Atlantic that was lost in a terrible storm at sea.
And they preserved these stories and their own genetic heritage pretty well intact in the isolations of the Pyrenee Mountains.
The skeptical mindset that we've had for so long is now proving to be extremely narrow.
People are afraid they're going to be gullible or something.
But we have to, there's no such thing as scientific inquiry unless you keep an open mind and don't have a rush to judgment.
As far as things like Bigfoot are concerned, yes, there are numerous traditions on both sides of the Atlantic about these giants, these people who were at a former time, and some of them had been enslaved to do menial work and who had later come into severe conflict with the so-called civilized people.
Who's to say that this isn't some kind of a remnant from that time?
Mythological traditions are not fables.
They're not stories.
It's the only way that an unliterate people could preserve the things that were important to them from their past.
So for us to dismiss these myths as just children's stories is doing tremendous insult, I think, to the folk tradition.
The myths are important and should be studied and maybe stripped away of some of their poetic elements.
But going to the core of them, yes, we see there was an Atlantis, and there were strange things, like if you want to call it Bigfoot or whatever, we don't know the real names of what they were.
The verdict isn't in on any of these things, to be sure.
Yes, because if we now possess the technology to find the Titanic and the Bismarck, surely we will be able to find the city lost in the sea.
The trouble is, we have been looking in the wrong places.
We've been looking in the Caribbean, which is actually not a wrong place.
We'll find things there.
We've been looking in the Aegean, and none of these places are where Plato told us it was.
Plato states pretty accurately, pretty clearly, that it was not outside, not far outside the Straits of Gibraltar, which he called the Pillars of Hercules.
And if you look there on the ocean floor, now that the ocean floor has been mapped pretty well, what do you find, but in fact, a sunken volcano in the Hirandel Deep.
It is on a spit of land underwater, not deep underwater either, about 200 feet down, called the Ampere Seamount.
It's called this By the oceanographers who found it in 1949, that recently.
And they determined, Dr. Maurice Ewing determined at that time that it was at one time a volcanic island which collapsed into the sea within the past 10,000 years geologically.
Efforts to go out there, there's a very good chance we're going to find something that will be the greatest news story in all of archaeological history, that's for sure.
It seems to me it would have many, and it would cause all of man to sit down and think really, really hard about what we're doing and about cycles and about what happened to them and what might happen to us.
One is from an ancient source, a wonderful Greek historian by the name of Hisiad, who lived about an Ecumenical Council as a world council, and an ecumeni is a worldwide culture.
Now, what do we find to back up that?
Well, not too long ago, Professor Charles Hapgood, who was, until his death about 10 years ago, one of the leading cartographers of all modern times, discovered and dissected a map.
And I'm not going to get into long parts of this, but this was an ancient map.
And he found that this map had been preserved in Turkey.
It's called the Piri Reis map.
And this map shows that somebody had tremendous geographical information about the coasts of America and even what Antarctica looks like underneath the ice 4,000 years before Christ.
And the proof which Dr. Hapgood came up with in his book called The Maps of the Ancient Sea King, that book's about 30 years old now, has never been disputed.
I think Dr. Hapgood makes an extremely convincing case.
He writes for a general audience, but believe me, the academics were down on him viciously, but could not dismantle his evidence.
He has been able to show that there were an overlay of these maps in this old Turkish map, which relied on maps from, oh, the Alexandrian Library, for example, from the time of the Ptolemaic time, and that relied on even earlier maps.
And he was able to peel back all the evidence to show, yes, that there were, that's what he calls them ancient sea kings, which coincides now with the Menominee Indian tradition of these sea peoples who came over here and stripped Mother Earth of her copper.
And of course, archaeologists will say, oh, modern man didn't have a ship that could cross the ocean like that.
Well, that's a lot of nonsense.
If ancient man could make the pyramid in Egypt, he certainly could make a boat that could go across the Atlantic Ocean.
And I think that's what's happened.
Now, see, that I think is the great realization now, is that it's a moral teaching, Atlantis.
That is the greatest significance for humanity, is that it was a civilization that possessed great power.
Because of their materialism and rampant greed, they lost it.
And, you know, it makes us look at our own world here.
Well, I don't think there's any problem with that at all because in the traditions of, you go from Genesis, which talks about the flood and Noah, and you go in the Quran, and the Quran talks about the land of Ad A.D. And these were people who preceded all the great culture-bearers of Arabia,
and who, in fact, inherited a lot of their ideas and their civilization from the people of Ad, who had a great palace on an island which disappeared because its people had committed a great sin against Allah in a horrible flood.
Like I mentioned earlier, you have this tradition amongst virtually every people on the face of the earth, and it seems to indicate, unless you're willing to totally dismiss this as some kind of impossible coincidence, that there was, in fact, a worldwide event, which I think, to answer your question, yes, it impacted the morality, the moral systems of every religion on the face of the earth.
I think so, because there's always a moral question involved, isn't there?
For example, Noah is singled out as the last of the generous men.
Yeah, let me stop you right there with Noah, because maybe you will have some comment on this.
We're here at the bottom of the hour, but Frank, are you aware that there's satellite imagery now that has people up on the side of Mount Ararat digging archaeological digs, probably uncovering, I've heard odds 100,000 to 1, That it is anything but an artificial object.
In other words, they think they may have found and are digging for Noah's Ark on the side of Mount Ararat right now.
And I'd like your comments on that when we come back.
So hang in there, Frank.
You're listening to Dreamland for a copy of this program the Seacrane Company weekend.
Catalog that's about to end tomorrow morning.
So if you have not yet made it through to get that and throw away, folks, it's one you keep all year long.
You've got to get through it at 63.
1-800-522-886.
Wednesday at midnight.
That's it.
They're changing the plate and going directly into the second printing.
So, enough said, I guess.
Except the number is 1-800-864-7991.
1-800-864-7991.
Right now, or 24 hours a day until you can get through.
Now, we're about to open the lines here, and I'm going to let you ask Frank Joseph anything you want.
And I've got a couple of questions of my own.
We'll get those and then the phone numbers to get in on the show because we're opening the lines now.
First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
The wildcard lines, area code 702-727-1295.
Toll-free, it's west of the Rockies, it's 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, it's 1-800-825-5033.
Again, east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
And now back to Frank Joseph.
Frank, I had a question which I had asked you just prior to the break about Ararat and Noah's Ark.
I took particular interest in that, of course, as I have of all things in regards to the world deluge.
And I'll try to explain it in my book as best I can.
I don't believe that what they're finding there is, in fact, the Ark.
I do believe that it is an artificial creation.
It may, however, have tremendous significance for the Genesis story.
And it appears to be, although it's still the verdict has just committed, but it appears to be a monument to that flood, and a used monument, a kind of a temple or memorial chapel, as it were.
Well, actually, yeah, that's true, but that's typical for places of great sanctity.
I have to think about places like Delphi, which is way up in the mountains of Greece, or many of the Indian sanctuaries on the west coast, which are high up in the mountains of the Shoshone Indians.
So in that regard, it would really be quite plausible.
So I don't think I know for sure that it is not the ark, but the evidence so far tends to show that it, in fact, could be a memorial, a monument that was built to the Great Flood.
Well, off the coast of Florida, there have been many sightings of what appears to be pyramidal-shaped buildings.
I have not been able to verify that, but because of the subsistence problems in Florida, especially the coastal area, I don't see why that is an impossible find that's going to be made someday.
The only pyramids underwater that I really know about are the ones that are in Wisconsin that I wrote about.
And those structures we photographed and have found.
unidentified
And I don't see why the same thing can't be done someday off the coast of Florida.
There's one shot of a structure underwater on top of a hill.
It's a ruined little pyramidal structure that we found only about 20 feet underwater.
And to answer this lady's question, I think relates to it, is that there appears to be, and I don't know the mechanism for this, there appears to have been some kind of a worldwide shift or something that puts structures like this, pyramids, underwater.
There's a lake in Japan called Lake Biwa, which has pyramidal structures 20 feet below the water.
The Bimini Wall I mentioned is about 19 or 20 feet.
unidentified
The structures seen off the coast of Florida are supposed to be in shallow waters.
I'm curious as far as his thoughts regarding the last ice age that disappeared about 12,000 years ago as far as what his ideas are as for the cause.
I've heard that, you know, with Atlantis being in the Atlantic, that when it sank, it allowed the warmer currents from the Gulf and farther south to move up, therefore warming the North Atlantic waters and such.
I think that refers to one of the earlier sinkings of Atlantis.
I should explain that Atlantis originally was a rather large, lengthy strip of land in the mid-Atlantic, and over time, pieces, portions of it sank, and only its final destruction was the really violent one in 1200 BC.
But before that, there were various sinkings.
And I think as some of that land was encroached upon by the sea, it indeed let up these warmer temperatures, which had tremendously important consequences climatically throughout the northern hemisphere.
That's been really pretty well demonstrated now.
There's, I think, a lot of evidence to show that, especially with the ice core drillings now.
That's a way where you can determine former climates in the world by digging down through the ice and seeing ash layers and so on.
You can tell what the climate was like 12 or 15,000 years ago.
And I agree.
I think that there was this major climactic change that took place.
And there's been a lot of recent concern, and I've got an article in the other room that would curl your hair, about a revisit of a comet we're going to have, which they're wondering the trajectory is within error limits of actually hitting Earth.
And I'll be saying more about that.
But the point is, over time immemorial, things have hit Earth, big things.
And that is the mechanism that actually tripped off this major destruction.
There is a tremendous couple of books written by two wonderful astronomers called Klube and Napier.
And they have shown conclusively that the Earth passes through a meteor cloud, usually in the November season, every year.
Now, there's hardly anything left of that meteor cloud now, so you'll see some nice meteor displays.
It's dissipated over the course of thousands of years.
But the last time there was a chance for a major impact was in the 13th century BC, right around there, they say.
And that coincides perfectly with the destruction of Atlantis.
I might say parenthetically here that the vast majority of these flood traditions that you get from around the world, and even in the Old Testament, in Revelations, in John, this flood is related to a fire from heaven.
It is called that over and over again.
Even the myths and the legends associated with the building of the Great Pyramid were that it was to be created as a refuge against a coming flood caused by, as described in the Arab traditions, a planet or a large object falling from space.
So I believe that in fact was the mechanism that the Earth passed through a large meteor cloud and that the Earth was bombarded, not by just one meteor, but by quite a few actually.
The Earth was under a bombardment.
And now that celestial mechanics are being better understood, even establishment astronomers are beginning to understand, yes, the world, our Earth, is subject to bombardments periodically by these meteor clouds, which are sometimes related to the passing of comets.
Like Enki is probably the comet that you, one of the comets that you might be talking about there.
Well, Professor Marsden, well-respected, I'll have to drag the newspaper article out and tell you which one I'm talking about because I can't recall right now.
But more and more mainstream astronomers are sort of issuing these warning bells.
That's correct.
And it's appearing in the press all the time lately about something hitting Earth.
I think that far more mind-blowing than looking for caves is the manipulation of the ionosphere.
Because the ionosphere, we are told, is being depleted by the worldwide pollution.
Now, what is so why would it why is that important?
The ionosphere is a blockage.
It is a shield of defense against meteor falls because many times a meteor, unless it hits the Earth, unless its trajectory is absolutely perfect, it's not going to hit the Earth.
It's going to burn up in the atmosphere, and sometimes the atmosphere gets so thick in the ionosphere, it's supposed to be thick, that it will ricochet off, it'll bounce off.
Now, if you get a depleted ionosphere, your shield gets weaker, and it's going to allow more of these large extraterrestrial debris to crash into the Earth.
So, if they're a building, a machine, or an instrument of some kind to strengthen the ionosphere, that means that somebody is concerned to keep out not only cosmic radiation, which it also does that, but it also has a tremendous effect in bouncing off these large meteor falls.
And as a matter of fact, that is specifically mentioned in the latest issue of Astronomy Magazine.
Among the traditions, the peripheral traditions of Atlantis, are that they had flying craft.
This is first mentioned in Edgar Casey, and it is the hardest pill for most Atlantis scholars to swallow.
However, there are traditions amongst other peoples, especially the Hindu traditions, about what's something they called vimanas.
And the vimana is the word for a kind of a flying machine, which is not exactly like you see in our skies today, which harnessed the power of the earth, taluric power, to create a kind of levitating device.
Now, whether you want to believe this or not, I'm not quite sure I do.
But it's nonetheless associated, I think, with a high technology that perhaps got fantasized after a while.
But the Vimana nonetheless persists throughout Hindu literature, and there are even traditions in Peru.
When I was in Peru last November, I heard some, which talked about how their ancestors, some of them, arrived from the great flood in flying craft, which they called Arichana, which means like the gold fire that flies through the sky.
So take that for what you will.
Maybe UFOs are man-made or were, and they've been around longer than we might be led to believe.
Outside of Rock Lake, the place where I investigated, there is a large cross, or was a large earthwork in the shape of a perfect cross, like a gun site.
I know people think I'm off my nut a lot of times when I make comments about comets, but in addition to Hailbop, there is Swift Tuttle to be concerned about.
And I'll tell you all about that in a moment.
Absolutely fresh flowers, I will tell you about right now.
It is a flower foreigner for astrophysics is predicting that comet Swift Tuttle could strike the Earth in the year 2126.
Interesting year.
Such a collision, Brian Marsden says, could possibly produce a cataclysmic impact more powerful than the one many scientists think wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago.
He estimates, now you don't really have to worry here, he estimates the odds of such a strike at about 1 in 10,000, making it unlikely but certainly possible.
he goes on to say one of these passes it will hit now one in ten thousand you say not a no the You might want to check into the odds of being hit by a truck, being struck by lightning, and a lot of other ways that one can demise.
We're talking about here the demise of the entire human race, not one person.
But if you want to talk about numbers, compare those numbers for that particular comet to the numbers of going in any one of many other ways.
And I think you'll begin to follow me.
And I thought that an interesting bit of documentation to back up what I was telling you a little bit earlier.
All right, once again, the Sea Crane Company catalog drive underway.
Last Chanceville here.
Oh, here is Frank Joseph.
And oh, oh, I've got something coming on immortality.
A question, I've got another letter here from an immortal, somebody claiming to be immortal.
And I think you're going to enjoy that.
But right now, Frank Joseph, Frank, you have written a number of books, the latest of which is Atlantis in Wisconsin.
Name the others, if you would, and then tell us how to get them.
Well, the two books that are available that are dealing with a subject we're discussing tonight are The Lost Pyramids of Rock Lake, which discusses this ancient city at the bottom of a lake in Wisconsin that has been authenticated and found.
It's the only book on that subject.
And its companion volume is called Atlantis in Wisconsin.
They are actually two volumes of the same thing.
The first volume, The Lost Pyramids of Rock Lake, tells the Indian stories about the structures of the bottom of the lake, and it also follows along our adventure in finding these things, how we found them, and has photographs of them.
Atlantis in Wisconsin, that deals with the implications of this site with the question of Atlantis and how they brought the copper from Wisconsin, the Upper Peninsula, over to Europe.
It describes how and when that was done.
So what I'm doing is both books are sold together as a set over the radio.
I'm going to do that here.
I'm going to offer our listeners here a little bit of a discount.
Individually, they have different prices.
The Lost Pyramids of Rock Lake costs $10.95.
And Atlantis in Wisconsin is $12.95.
So I'm going to knock off $2 if they order both of them together.
And they can order those books in this special deal on this show only by calling 1-800-777-3454.
Art, I'm sure you must know or ought to know that the astronomers are only attempting to get us afraid of asteroids, etc., in preparation for the arrival of, is it Nibiru?
Nibiru?
N-I-B-I-R-U.
This is, of course, an interpretation, but I'm sure the establishment wouldn't want you to proceed in this direction.
I don't know what all that means but about it what is No, no, I have no idea.
But to follow up on what you said earlier about the chances of a collision with the Earth, many of your listeners are probably familiar with something called Behringer Crater.
It's called Meteor Crater out in the southwest.
And it's about a mile across.
It was caused by a meteor, which scientists, by the way, for almost 100 years denied was caused by a meteor.
And the date for that was always very vague.
They thought it would happen maybe 20 or 50 or 100,000 years ago.
Well, most recent dating for that, through simple stratigraphy, has shown that that impact, which took place, and you can see Visit Meteor Crater now in Behringer, was caused only 2,700 years ago.
And especially geologic time, I mean, that's just as a wink of an eye.
So perhaps, I mean, to say that there have been no major collisions that have damaged or destroyed civilizations in the past is ridiculous, because if that happened today, I think the effects on the southwest would be noticeable.
It would be equivalent to a major nuclear event, actually.
I'm afraid these people claim physical or near-physical immortality.
Now, for example, in the letter I've got here, they claim, well, yes, we can be so scattered or heads can be taken off, and in that case, we're not immortal, but barring cataclysmic physical failure due to whatever cause, they are immortal.
Now, I would think that such people are not truly immortal in the sense that they would not have made it through the kind of cataclysmic earth changes you and others have talked about.
Well, immortality is not the word that springs to mind to describe these people, quite honestly.
so uh...
i i really can't comment on that and i think really Well, no, I don't subscribe to any of those things, I'm afraid.
My open-mindedness has certain limitations, I suppose.
Well, in a rational world, you know, there can be psychological disorders that people can go through, things like that.
explained in that way i suppose in terms of psychology but i'm afraid i'm not too well the interesting aspect of course of anybody who would actually be immortal would be they might be able to give you some insights into the That was exactly where I was going with that.
Well, actually, we don't need them, though, actually, because we are bending our efforts very seriously to find the remains of this previous civilization.
We've done a lot of hard work already in the Caribbean on Dimini.
We're going to hopefully expand our research in the future to go investigate the Ampere Seamount that I mentioned earlier, that sunken volcanic island off the shores of North Africa, about 200 miles west of Gibraltar.
And we're doing some serious hard work.
It's not just theorizing, and that's what I've tried very hard to put into my books, to make Atlantis come alive for people that read about it.
Not just facts, and it's not just a scholastic attempt or some wacko story.
I've tried to assemble the material in the most credible and dramatic form, and that's why I'm anxious to share with people and get their reaction from it and show me where I'm wrong and correct it or to point me in the right direction.
We're talking about a series of major devices set off in a seismically active zone.
Now, I mean, common sense would tell me there's going to be repercussions to that, to say nothing of the marine life destroyed, the ecological obscenity that takes place.
We're doing precisely the same things that the Atlanteans did in their arrogance, thinking, oh, we can do anything we want.
We can show off our power.
And what happened is the Earth rebelled.
The Earth rebelled and destroyed the Atlanteans, tore down their civilization, wiped most of them out, so that they are only a mythological memory now.
And that is going to happen to us unless we learn from that historical parallel.
That's what I try to push harder in my work than anything else.
A few miles off the coast of Miami, as a matter of fact.
And yeah, he reproduced some wonderful photographs in there of the so-called road or wall.
unidentified
Yeah, and it was just these huge monolithic blocks of stone that were just set so tightly, you know, to the blade of a knife couldn't fit through them.
There are new finds being made down there all the time.
The last expedition that went down there found pieces of granite.
Now that's interesting because granite does not appear in that part of the Caribbean.
The nearest granite would be South Carolina.
So obviously the thing is made and fitted together.
It also terminates in a J-form, which fits perfectly into a kind of a refuge for sailing ships.
The Bimini Wall is also located in the exact spot where the Canary Island Current, which sweeps across from North Africa and straight across the ocean, turns.
So that if you were going to go back, say, from Europe, you would ride that current, followed up the East Coast, and go back to Europe.
And the phenomenon that has been taking place in the Bermuda Triangle is definitely real.
It's too long for me to go into at this point, but most of the things the audience has heard about it are a legitimate phenomenon.
I have known people that have lived there, that have worked there.
It's real.
What is causing it?
Two deep-sea holes were found there and written about in one of the best books on Atlantis.
It's called The Secret of Atlantis by Otto Mook.
And Otto Mook was a German rocket scientist, one of the leading physicists, as a matter of fact, in the 1940s and 50s.
Well, anyway, he wrote a book called The Secret of Atlantis, and he identified these two deep-sea holes, which are pretty much in the general vicinity of the middle of the Permian Triangle, that were caused by an asteroid that split in two as it streaked over North America and buried itself nine miles deep in the ocean floor.
Now those asteroids contain some of the largest concentration of pure nickel iron in the world, and that is what is probably causing the magnetic and other anomalies that are taking place there as it interfaces with the other geologic forces like seismic activity, telluric activity, working on nickel iron.
Like when an earthquake is about to take place, all the pressure develops in the epicenter.
And that is where these large deposits of nickel iron are.
Well, of course, we're just beginning to have something called genetic engineering, aren't we?
I mean, the end of the 20th century, and if we're allowed to continue, I'm sure there's going to be just incredible advances to come.
I don't think it's necessarily an evil or a wicked thing.
It's just like any science.
It's just like the Promethean fire that was given to us.
It can either cook our food or it can burn our house, depending on how we're going to use it.
So I don't think intrinsically it's an evil thing.
It depends upon the human spirit behind it.
Genetic engineering, I think, can be extremely good for regenerating new organs and extending life, not quite to the immortals, but certainly well beyond 100 years.
So I think it's possible, and yes, there are indications that this technology was known a very, very long time ago.
Like I said, our civilization was destroyed, and it has been reinvented, and I think science is only just beginning to understand that.
The name of that civilization was Atlantis.
That's why it seared itself into the subconscious of literally the world's population.
I mean, you have this known around the world.
And an event like this had to have been of great, great consequence.
And what I've tried to do is to show how it reacted and worked right here, right in America, specifically in the Middle West, but impacted our country.
And that's the twist I've tried to put on it.
I don't deal in general theories.
I tried to show, through documentation and clear logic as I possibly can.
I've devoted my life to this.
This is an obsession with me in a way.
And I travel around the world.
I try to look at things realistically, and I see, I picked up the trail, and it leads right back to America.
I think that's a wonderful historical parallel going on here.
And I believe that many people feel the same as you, that there is a general sense that there is a great change coming.
And we're going to have to meet that in a dignified and intelligent way or just try to scramble for ourselves and commit the same mistakes over and over again.
History does repeat itself.
The great tragedy is that we never learn from it.
And hopefully that's why shows like yours and books like mine will try in a general sort of way to shift consciousness so that we can learn from it and see that these things did happen.
You know, Frank, if it depends on social trends, if it depends on the behavior, in other words, of mankind, in other words, which way off this precipice we're going to go, I'm sorry, but looking at current behavior, trends, from the nuclear detonations to whatever else you want to talk about, the crime, the blank, soulless stares of children who kill children and others, we're going off the wrong side.
Yes, they had a technology that was at least the equal of ours and then more advanced in some ways, but it was of a different type of technology.
We have evolved electronic and atomic technology.
I do not believe they had that to much of a degree.
Perhaps electronics to some small degree.
But their science appears to have been based on a very close observation of natural forces and that they used these natural forces coupled with their genius to achieve great scientific things.
One of them, for example, the creation of the Great Pyramid.
Now, I cannot get into that, that's a huge subject, but I believe, I'm not the only researcher who's done this, by the way, I can't claim that, but many researchers I'm talking about, like Fix and Bobal, have shown that the Great Pyramid was built by Atlanteans who had a superb technology that definitely shows in advance of our own, because the Great Pyramid cannot be duplicated by our technology.
So yes, they did have a superior technology in some regards.
It was also based, as Casey said, on the recognition of the ultimate power, which we don't have.
The ultimate power is spiritual power, not atomic power, electronic power.
And they harnessed, the Atlanteans harnessed that spiritual power somehow and put it towards material ends.
And it was okay as far as it went.
But when it was turned to greed, they destroyed themselves.
And you know the way he feels about the pyramids, and I think that he now carries a theory that parallels yours that says that cataclysmic geographic geologic activity can in fact be prevented by the use of pyramidal technology at the right points on the Earth.
Most people don't realize that the Great Pyramid, the most massive building, most perfect building ever made on Earth, sits at the very center of the world's landmass.
That means that if you took all of the latitudinal and longitudinal lines, they would cross directly over the Great Pyramid.
The Great Pyramid embodies all of the elements of the Earth, and it is used as a transducer.
A transducer is a simple device invented, reinvented in the last century to take mechanical power and transform it into electrical power.
I believe that is what the Great Pyramid was built as, as a geologic transducer.
The Atlanteans saw the tremendous catastrophe coming.
They went to the very absolute center of the world's landmass and created the Great Pyramid as a transducer.
I know it's a fantastic thing to talk about.
The gentleman asked the question.
I have to answer him as quickly and succinctly as I can.
Well, I appreciate your doing that first on my program, Frank.
Hold on just a second.
We'll be right back.
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Well, okay.
Not a lot of time left.
Frank, you have been so damn good that I'm liable to try to invite you into a session on something called Coast to Coast AM, which I do during the week.
If anybody is interested in either Atlantis in Wisconsin or the Lost Pyramids of Rock Lake, these are two volumes discussing the same things we've been talking about here.
They can order them from Galdi Press.
Here's the number.
It's 1-800-777-3454.
You get a free catalog, and anybody calling in from this show gets a $2 discount if they buy the two as a set.
Well, I know that that is a mythological term which Sitchin uses to define, yes, I'm asking the caller, Frank.
unidentified
Yes, sir.
It is the 12th planet.
Considering that the Sumerians were exposing the cradle of civilization, could you connect this Atlantean race to the ancient Anuki that the Sumerians referred to?
You can find it in the Gilgamesh epic where they talk about Udnashketim, who came from this island that was sinking and is one of the survivors of this flood.
I think the Sumerians were definitely people who grew up through contacts between the Atlanteans.
As they arrived in Mesopotamia, they intermarried with the natives and produced the Sumerians.
The same thing happened in America.
The same thing happened in the Nile Valley.
So when we see these civilizations, they are basically similar.
They have similar stories, but there are tremendous differences.
And I think that's because you have this large-scale intermixing going on.
I am very grateful for the opportunity to get on, and I consider it really an honor to be on the show, which has such a wonderful following and very intelligent questions tonight.