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Oct. 8, 1995 - Art Bell
01:49:41
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Brad Steiger - Paranormal Topics
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Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience
not easily nor neatly put in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
This is Dreamland.
Another Sunday night, another Dreamland.
Good evening, everybody.
I'm Art Bell.
I'll give you a thumbnail sketch of what's coming up tonight.
First, of course, the world's expert, well-acknowledged world's expert on crop circles, animal mutilations, and an extending field.
That's Linda Howe.
She'll be coming to us from Philadelphia.
Then, a man who has written over a hundred books, the latest of which is called The Awful Thing in the Attic.
I thought they were generally in the cellar.
But, uh, this one, uh, definitely is in the attic.
We'll find out.
Brad Steiger, a well-known Brad Steiger, is, uh, going to be my guest.
And so that's kind of a little bit of an idea of what's coming up.
Let me, uh, take care of a couple of items right up front.
We all know that information is what it's all about.
And Linda Howe.
Linda, welcome to the show again.
Hi, Art.
Hi.
I just got in about an hour ago from North Haven, Connecticut, where the Omega Conference was held with Stanton Friedman and Jacques Bellay from California, myself and others, discussing a variety of phenomena, including the current humanoid autopsy controversy.
Of course.
and that last night there was considerable conversation about whether
the camera man uh... died on august third nineteen ninety five in los angeles
uh... a man uh... that matches the name that centilli had originally given
researchers uh... may have died
but i talked with uh... centilli's office as recently as thursday and they
said that as far as they were concerned the camera man they're dealing with is alive and is under
deep cover to protect himself and his family
So that issue is unresolved tonight.
Oh boy, that gave me a little heart jump.
So he's no doubt then still alive, or at least you're told.
Yes, they were telling me on Thursday and part of the conversation and trying to clarify is this man alive or not.
I also talked with Bob Schell in Washington and he had a very interesting comment to make about his own dealers into the intelligence community.
He worked 30 years ago in the Central Intelligence Agency as a zoologist biologist on things that would be related to biochemical warfare, or at least the research into those matters.
Right.
And he says with great firmness that he has not worked for the agency for 30 years, but many of these men do keep friendships with some of the people that they worked with.
And I'm now going to play you an excerpt of one of his conversations recently with one of those colleagues who then referred him to get Another man actively in intelligence who has an extraordinary thing to say about the panels that we have seen in the debris footage that has the two six fingered hands side by side in what is now referred to as the panels or the boxes that the creatures were clutching to their chest according to the cameraman when they came on the scene to retrieve them.
So now first is uh... pop
and that that i have to have more comments and play eight another very
brief audio about extraordinary statement left on my message which i
hear comes bombshell and he is an ex fbi photo of a consultant analyst uh...
right go right ahead with us
i called up my my friend who is
intelligence officially retired
and i think that's correct Did this friend work in the inner sanctum related to MJ-12 or any of the special projects in the Truman administration?
Not to my personal knowledge.
Okay.
Not to my personal knowledge.
Do you mean that he may have?
I doubt that he did.
I know he knows a lot about this stuff.
Okay, well I won't interrupt any further.
Go ahead.
I don't think he was ever officially involved in it.
But anyway, I called him up when I first got into this, and I said, Jim, let me tell you this story.
I told him about the film.
And I said, well, maybe it is.
And he said, well, I figured it was a matter of time.
And I said, Jim, am I getting myself in any personal danger by getting involved in this?
He said, let me get back to you on that.
He called me back three days later after talking to some of his friends.
He said, Bob, I don't think you have anything to worry about because if they had wanted this hushed up, Santilli and the cameraman, both of them, would have been dead a week ago.
He said that?
Yeah.
Okay.
And so, based on that assurance from him, I went ahead and got involved in it.
And I have had no sign that anybody is monitoring me, following me, nobody's threatened me, I see no intelligence involvement at all, which really surprises the hell out of me.
Anything else, any other information that's come to you from sources verifying it in some way?
Only that I have talked to one man who was referred to me by my other friend.
By Jim?
Yeah, this man is an active intelligence officer, very high level.
Who says that he has personally seen one of those control panels, the things with the handprints.
Right.
Years ago, back in the 60s.
And he said he was peripherally involved in a project that was attempting to reverse engineer them.
And what they are is computers.
And he said that after all the years of research they had done on them, They were no closer to understanding him than they were the first they laid eyes on him.
And the knots placed in the palm at the ridges of the lower knuckles, at the tips of the fingers and so forth, they impress one as having some kind of connection to whatever electrical field or nerve impulse there would be.
When he said these things are, The way you put it to me was neuron-based computers.
Neuron-based?
Yeah, not electronic but biological in base.
Which is very curious because there's an article in this month's Discovery Magazine talking about building just such a thing.
Our computer scientists are working in that direction.
That is a very interesting and new concept, the idea of a neuron-based biological computer that would be personally keyed to each of the beings, tailor-made so that whatever their hands and their fields and their telepathic neuron connection to those panels would be, would be their direction.
He also went on to say that there is the distinct possibility that each panel, tailor-made for
each being, could not be cross-used by another being, or we couldn't activate them, and it
may explain, Art, why in the cameraman's statement he said that they, he called them the freaks,
at the crash site were screaming and clutching these boxes or panels so desperately to their
Absolutely incredible.
I mean that is incredible.
Yes.
And the fact that we've been trying to back engineer and that we haven't gotten much further now than where they began 50 years ago There's something about the kind of technology involved.
I'm not surprised.
That's an incredible report.
Absolutely incredible.
Yeah, and it goes on because Dan Tilley had told me that in the autopsy on the being that we have not seen that is under the control of Volker Spielberg in Germany That the other humanoid had a sort of blemished and shriveled look to the skin, and Gentile had almost, I guess he had just inferred that that was an older being.
Well, Bob Schell, in talking about these panels and the individuation of the panels, he said that there is some possible indication that the autopsy that none of us have seen is actually the being that was dead at this crash site when they arrived on the morning of June 3rd and that what the cameraman photographed in Fort Worth in July of 47 the two beings and the one that we've seen that the one we've seen would be the wounded humanoid at the site June 3rd that Spielberg has the autopsy on the first
The dead creature, which the cameraman said, was put on ice in a truck and hauled off to Wright-Patterson.
And the doctors who have seen the autopsy on the second one said it could have been preserved on ice and still had that fluid blood come out from the scalpel.
Leaving two more for a third one to match the cameraman said he flew back two years later in 1949 to do an autopsy.
on another one, leaving in the Bob Schell scenario one being still alive and I now want
to play for you a message that was left on my message machine after a Dreamland report
that I did about two weeks ago and until now talking with Bob Schell it didn't make sense.
Now I'm going to play it just for all of us to think about.
The government made contact in 1949 when they returned the alien that survived.
Bye.
The government made contact in 1949 when they returned the alien that survived.
An anonymous message, I take it.
Yeah, and... Oh, God.
Yeah, now, maybe Shell is right.
Maybe there was a fourth surviving being that went back someplace And that the three autopsies accounted for by the cameraman would be the one dead at the scene, the one injured with the big leg wound, and the third that lived for two years.
And I'm only putting that out as Bob Shell's hypothesis, but something new to consider as we're all trying to get to the bottom of the truth in all this.
Oh, this is amazing, Linda.
You know, something that began as more people than not saying, eh, we think hoax.
Has been building and building and building and building and the evidence we've been getting every week now has been toppling over to the side of this really did happen.
Yes, and one of the men in the audience in North Haven who is a medical doctor, his entire profession, he saw the footage last night.
We saw the unedited autopsy and debris footage.
And he stood up and said that I know something about the Turner Syndrome, which has been proposed as a genetic anomaly, and he said, I can assure you that there is nothing in this humanoid that would match up to the Turner Syndrome.
And we've heard that before, but it was interesting to hear it repeated again from the audience.
All right.
Linda, give out all your information, if you would, please.
This is a remarkable report.
I wish I'd taped it.
Well, thank you.
We can go keep doing this more and more.
Like you, I have an 800 number now for people who would like information about my books and videos, and I can give that out.
Okay.
800-707-9993.
Again, that's toll free.
Again, that's toll free, 800-707-9993.
800-707-9993.
And for people who want to write to me, and you can ask for confidentiality and I will
always honor it.
It is Post Office Box 538 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
The zip code is 19006.
1-9-0-0-6 and again it's post office box 538 and the city is H-U-N-T-I-N-G, D as in
and my fax number is area code 215-491-9842.
All right, excellent.
Linda, I want to advise you, I have received just prior to airtime one of the best stories with regard to Bigfoot,
a fax, that I've ever received, and I'm going to forward this to you shortly.
Great, because one of the stories I'm working on is a collection of the Bigfoot eyewitness sightings that I've
been receiving also since our Dreamland report.
Great, well, I've got to run, but this will be on the way to you, and believe me, it's worth the wait. It'll be there
shortly.
I'm going to forward this to you shortly.
Great, maybe I can do this next week.
All right, we'll look for a follow-up.
Thank you, Linda.
Take care.
That's Linda Howe, as I said, acknowledged to be the world's expert on crop circles, animal mutilations, and deeply involved, as you can hear, in this autopsy business.
And by the way, the wreckage photographs, I repeat, the wreckage photographs, to include Listen very carefully now.
The panels that Linda just talked about, a very, very good resolution picture of those panels, and the bar with the glyph on it, are available on our bulletin board service, which is open now and 24 hours a day.
You're welcome to go in there and download one photo...
Hello there.
Photograph.
GIF file, actually.
Every day, free of charge.
That number is area code 702-727-1709.
Area Code 702-727-1709.
702-727-1709.
702-727-1709.
Author of more than, I know it's unbelievable, but a hundred books on the strange and unknown.
Here he draws upon his 40 years as a psychic researcher to select the eeriest, spookiest, scariest true stories
from his own investigations and from his extensive files of the paranormal.
And, this is mysterious, Steiger and his wife, Sherry, live in Forest City, Iowa, with cats, ghosts, and Scandinavian
pixies.
We're going to have to find out what those are.
But his latest book, which I do not have a copy of, by the way, is The Awful Thing in the Attic.
But you can well imagine that with over 100 books under his belt, that's hard for me to imagine, 100 books under your belt.
At any rate, Brad Steiger coming up right after the break.
Let me just tell you very quickly that my book, The Art of Talk, Hopefully, you've got a pen and pencil there now.
My book, The Art of Talk, is available to be ordered right now.
We'll be shipping this week.
Shipping this week, if you order now.
In addition, I poured my heart and soul into that book, and I think you're going to love it.
It is of the highest quality.
It's a hardcover book, and you can order it right now, throughout the night, if you can get through.
The number is 1-800-864-7991.
Take it down.
1-800-864-7991.
Now, when we come back, it's off to the strange world of Brad Steiger.
This is something I've been waiting for some time to do.
A large honor indeed to interview Brad Steiger.
It is next.
And the world famous Brad Steiger.
Brad, welcome to the program.
Thank you, Art.
Pleasure to be with you.
Brad, have you really written over 100 books?
This book is number 134, Art.
Oh, my God.
I've written the first book in my whole life, which is just coming out, and it drained me and almost killed me.
How do you do it?
It's what I do.
It's my life.
It's my energy.
I'm surprised you have any life left after that.
It was a killer job for me.
Well, anyway.
But you don't have a copy of the book.
I can't believe it.
No, I don't.
I have a copy of The Strange World of Brad Steiger and In My Soul I Am Free, and that's it so far.
So if you are so inclined, I would sure love to have an autographed version.
Well, you certainly will have one, my friend.
First of all, I guess a little background on Brad Seiger.
How'd you get started with an interest in all of this?
I suppose I'd have to go back to the fact that I was reared in a haunted house.
And then I had a near-death experience at age 11.
And I guess a visitor from another world or dimension when I was five and put all those together and I guess I had an early interest.
People think I'm 112 years old but you have to remember I began writing when I was 15.
So people, even my contemporaries, would say, gee, I read your book in high school.
Well, that's true, but I'm not that much older.
I'll be 60 now in February.
I see.
Well, you don't sound it, number one.
And you certainly don't write like it.
Well, thank you.
So I can understand why you began writing early.
Yes.
I really had no choice, Art.
When I was five, and I've told this in a number of books, but I had A close encounter with what today we commonly think of as
an alien being.
I didn't know if it was an elf, a fairy or whatever.
This happened just before I was five.
Interestingly, just only recently I met a woman who now lives in California who grew
up in the neighboring Iowa town next to mine who had an experience with the same being
at the same time and we knew it was probably the same or at least a similar being I should
say because she had an artist commissioned to paint this being.
And when I walked into this art gallery, I was overcome because that was the being.
I've had several artists try to replicate as I've described it, but this was absolutely the closest.
Well, do the best you can for us.
What was this being?
What did it look like?
Well, I grew up on a farm.
I'm a country boy.
I've lived all over the world, New York, the West Coast, Arizona, but I'm still a country boy.
I love it here in Iowa in the Midwest.
So I'm used to seeing at that time at age five, Art, I was used to seeing my father in his coverall.
So I was awakened.
I wasn't awakened, because I'm a night person now, you see.
Your producer said, better take a nap, you're up to be midnight.
I said, I'll go to bed before thirty.
So I'm a night person, and even as a child, as my mother said, I just could not sleep.
I mean, that's just not part of my reality, I guess.
So I would sit on the edge of my bed, and in those days we didn't have electric lights yet.
Uh, we didn't have radio, we didn't have TV, of course.
So, but I would sit on the edge of my bed in our L-shaped house.
I could look in the kitchen window at my parents and I could just kind of hear them.
So it's kind of like an early form of television.
And I'm sitting on the edge of my bed with my parents.
It's an October night and I hear the wash tub from the well, as I said we did not yet have running water, being pulled over under the window.
Now I'm wondering why our massive collie dog isn't just raising all kinds of cane because it's a stranger.
And remember now, I live in the country.
I live way out in the country.
It's not like you live in town and you hear the neighbors next door.
There are no neighbors next door.
So when you hear someone at night, you know, it's not good.
So I hear the tub being drawn over and then I see this smallish man what I first thought was a kind of a helmet on a very large helmet and then I saw that that was his head.
I mean he had a very large head and he was standing looking at my parents in the kitchen through the kitchen window and then it's one of those things we've all done it you know stared at the back of somebody's head and they finally turn around.
Sure.
I kept staring at the back of this person's head, this small man's head or small being's
head, I didn't know what.
And then that being finally then seemed to sense that the watcher was being watched and
turned to look at me.
And of course I will never as long as I live forget when he turned and I saw those kind
of reptilian to me big snake eyes looking at me.
This was only from the light from the kitchen window that all...
All I saw was this large, I couldn't really get color because of course it was at night, but very large head.
I would say it seemed kind of yellowish gray or whatever in the light looking at me with these very large eyes and then the eyes kept getting so it seemed to me as a young child now the eyes kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger until that's all there was for me was those giant eyes and then I awakened the next morning well then somebody would be tempted to say you had a dream
Someone could easily say that.
If that was a dream, Art, it is the only dream I remember from my childhood.
It's a dream that I remember with crystal clarity to the age of nearly 60.
It's a dream that comes back to me very often.
And then, of course, I had this woman who was the same age as I am that I met and did not know as a child growing up because she lived in the neighboring town.
I feel I had these things happen to me for specific reasons.
As I say we met in this art gallery where she had commissioned an artist to paint the
being that came to her when she was a little girl in Iowa.
It was the same or similar being.
What is it on reflection after all these years that you believe you saw?
I feel I had these things happen to me for specific reasons.
From near death experience this being I feel activated something within me.
Hmm.
My Indian name, I was adopted into the Seneca tribe, is Hathya Swath, which means he who testifies.
And I think I am in a large part with these books, Art, I think I am a testifier.
Now I was shown, because I have my near-death experience, this experience, I had giant questions answered for me.
Before I was a teenager.
Well, let's move to that.
Eleven years old, near death.
How did that happen?
That happened in a very severe farm accident, in which, I mean, the word was already out to prepare the funeral type of thing.
My father and my uncle decided they had nothing to lose.
They were going to try to go all the way to Des Moines, where they heard there might be someone who could patch me together again.
What happened to you?
Can you tell us?
It's extremely gory.
I went through a piece of machinery that completely could have decapitated me, really scalped me, and crushed my skull.
So again, this was on my parents' wedding anniversary.
So we were hurrying to get the chores and the work finished so we could go out to eat that night and celebrate their anniversary.
And this is how they ended up celebrating.
So they decided to make a run.
And again, I was in and out of the body.
I went up to first a beautiful light.
And then I realized that I was dying.
And again, the classic, I'm too young to die.
I'm 11 years old.
And then I thought of my mother, you know, my mother, how's my mother going to receive this?
And I was instantly beside her.
I thought of my friends and I was instantly beside each one of them.
I was free of the limitations of time and space.
In pain?
No pain.
Absolutely no pain.
Then, as I said, I was out of the body.
And if I came back to my body, I would...
This is farther and farther away from my body.
It was harder to get back to my body and I kept moving toward this light and then I had a moment of panic when I realized I am dying and I was shown something I cannot put into words.
I've written 134 books, thousands of articles and short stories.
Words fail me.
I was shown a series of geometric designs is the only thing I can say.
Seeing those I've never heard anybody say that before, geometric designs.
life and I was in a state of ecstasy.
Do you remember those things, kaleidoscopes, when you were a kid and you would learn them?
Yes, yes.
Was it that kind of effect?
No, no.
The closest I've seen, my wife, Sherry, does a healing seminar using fractal geometry, and the fractals that she projects, and she has marvelous results in the audience of people being spontaneously healed with this, are the closest that I've seen to these designs.
At any rate then, I was told or given to understand that I was to go back on the body, into the body.
I came back into the body just as they were about to operate.
I was a very husky 11-year-old boy.
I remember sitting up, pushing two interns against the wall.
It was a Roman Catholic hospital.
And one of the nurses then began to speak to me in a very soothing voice.
And I've always, I guess, related to the feminine principle.
And she's managed to call me.
And then I went to a beautiful place where they did the surgery.
A beautiful valley filled with marvelous people and so forth,
who kind of kept me company until I returned to the body this time this day.
So you once again left.
In other words, you came back, you actually became conscious, then once again unconscious.
Right.
I take it they gave you a general and under you went and away you went.
Yes.
The nun then managed to call me.
My first audience for all of this, Art, in my room was a child who was dying.
When I recovered consciousness in a couple days, and the nuns in this Roman Catholic hospital seemed to understand that I had been someplace, that I'd had this near-death experience.
Of course, they didn't call it that then.
And they asked me to speak to the parents.
The child was already in kind of a comatose state, and to assure them, you know, that their child would be going to a beautiful place, that I had been there and I had seen it.
And I was able to bring them comfort and somehow at age 11 and that's what got me started.
I realized if I shared these things that it could bring people hope, inspiration, comfort, realization that there is more.
We are souls inhabiting a fleshly body.
There's more to us than even the most imaginative of us tend to believe.
Okay, I've heard, as a matter of fact, they even did a piece on this on 2020 or 60 Minutes, forget what it was, doesn't matter.
They had a doctor say, well, we believe this area that people go to or this light they see is the The brain, which is dying from the outside in, and as the outside dies, you see this core of light, which is in fact the core of your brain, in an attempt to explain it medically.
If you were standing in front of that doctor and listening to that, what would you say?
Well, I guess one thing I would say is, you haven't been there.
It's fine to theorize about these things.
And you know, I had the most beautiful imitation rose sitting in front of me.
But it's not real.
We can imitate, we can replicate, but then there's the real.
Then there is that which is transformative.
There is that which tells us that what we really know in our hearts, that we are more than physical things.
And so, that's how strongly you feel about it.
You would just say, you haven't been there, it is real.
Well, I think you understand I've really stopped arguing.
with people at this point.
Because there's no point.
There's no point.
I have had, and you know, I certainly am a human being who enjoys, I don't like to say I told you so, and I try not to, but I've had over the years are so many people laugh at me because I talk about UFOs, laugh at me because I talk about ghosts, who then after they've had their experience, they've returned And they don't care who argues with them because they've seen.
Now they know.
They have experienced.
So I taught college for a number of years.
And the bright young ladies in the department used to set me up with the scientists.
Every lunch for me became a debating society.
And when I was young and earnest, I did that.
I debated.
I debated.
And try to sway with intellect and knowledge and footnotes.
Now I realize these are individual mystical experiences.
And once you have had one, you cannot be dissuaded.
You cannot be told.
You don't care what someone thinks or someone believes or disbelieves because you know.
It is that noetic sense of knowing.
It's beyond reason.
It's beyond intellect.
Yeah, it must be a great comfort.
Brad, hold on one moment.
We'll be right back to you.
My guest is Brad Steiger.
Stay right where you are.
I put that forth in my books in the late 60s.
At that time, people weren't ready.
Friends like Jay Ellen Heineck and so forth said, man, you are really off the deep end.
These are solid, clunk clunk, physical.
Of course, Sherry was Ellen Heineck's manager right up to the very end, working with him.
He came very much to see the multidimensional, the paraphysical dimension.
Like I say, I have chased these beings, if you will, all over the world.
What I have seen, what I have witnessed with my own eyes, and of course we know, I don't remember who it was, Arthur C. Clarke or someone who said that the science of an advanced generation would look like magic to us.
So nothing I can say is dogmatic, so please understand that.
What I have seen with my own eyes and my own experience seems to be multi-dimensional or Uh, more than it seems to be physical, but I'm not denying the physical.
I would never do that, but I'm saying the bulk of what we see, I think, is multidimensional or paraphysical.
Um, I'm not gonna, we're not gonna have time for you to answer this completely right now, but I had on my program the other day an individual, and I've had faxes from individuals lately, and I know this sounds crazy and it sounds like a TV series revisited, but they firmly Literally claim they are immortal.
People who claim their aging process has halted.
Is there such a thing in your view?
I think there are ascended masters who walk among us.
I think they're striving for immortality or reversing the aging process.
I think at this point, I think I know who to whom you're referring.
I don't think it's happened yet.
Time will tell, but I don't think we're going to see these people being able to demonstrate what they hope to.
A lot of them are not interested in demonstrating anything at all.
They figure that they'll end up being guinea pigs if they... So I've been approached anonymously.
I was just curious... Well, I think... Okay, maybe... I would say that I think there may be such timeless beings walking among us.
Whoa, that was the question.
All right, Brad.
Stand by.
You've got several minutes, so just relax and we'll be right back to you.
This, of course, from near the area that you're from.
Brad, welcome back.
Thank you.
All right.
With that many books under your belt, I don't know where to begin except having had the early childhood experiences that launched you into this, for those that just joined us at this hour.
Um, you must have studied quite a few haunted houses.
Haunted houses have absolutely fascinated me all my life.
Yes.
What would you, what story would you relate or stories of the best cases of haunting that you've run into?
I would probably have to.
I'm not good at choosing the best when I've been involved with so many.
I know you understand that.
Sure.
I would relate probably, you know, maybe kind of do a pastiche here.
All right, good.
What I've tried to do in this book, this current book, it is a collection of some of my favorite hauntings and you put your finger on something though, Art.
I think When we talk about haunted houses, no matter how scary, if we see a movie about haunted houses or ghosts, on one level they are telling us something very positive, that there is life after death, that something survives.
That's right.
So in the haunted houses, I really began with the whole idea, I mean I was like a botanist if I heard a rare flower was blooming in Brazil.
That I went there to be there when the moon came up.
So that was my attitude.
I wanted to investigate as many as possible.
And in those days, as I say, I was extremely intellectual.
I mean, I was rationalizing, explaining away everything.
And then I ran up against things that, you know, could not be explained by squirrels in the attic or knocking water pipes.
I mean, things that really were on the can.
So one of the houses we investigated, I'll start with this one, I find it one of the most dramatic because I was along with several other 200 pound men lifted into the air by this entity.
This was a situation where a number of murders Over the years that have taken place in this house, I mean, generations apart, but there seems to somehow be vibrations or energies that exist.
And some people may not know when they move in that a murder has been committed in their home.
And somehow they end up replicating the terrible deed that was done before.
Well, this happened to be the case with this house.
And in this, there had been a double murder in the garage.
There had been a double murder in the basement.
When we were called by the police and others to investigate, most of the phenomena were taking place in the basement.
The woman would go down, turn on the faucets, and blood would come pouring out of the faucets.
There seemed to be faces on the wall.
There seemed to be things happening.
But then this one back room in which the murder had taken place, both murders were of a jealous husband who came home and Most hauntings, Brad, seem to be, I've noticed, because of unrequited love, because of a violent death, because of... What do you think happens?
Is it that the soul is somehow unable to move on?
I still have to intellectualize things.
You have to bear with me.
I think there are varieties of hauntings.
I used to, when someone said a soul waiting to move on, I thought, oh no, come on.
Now I see that that truly could be the case in some hauntings.
I think when we're dealing with a ghost phenomena, a ghost is like a photograph.
A ghost is a photograph that somehow replicates itself in the environment.
People say, why are these ghosts always built around terrible things that have happened?
Well, they're not.
There are happy ghosts.
I've gone to places and I hear from people all the time who have a ghost that they consider like a member of the family.
I've heard that too.
Yeah.
So again, there are happy ghosts, but the ones that we seem to hear about without question happen around violent death, as you said, of some nature, great emotion involved, and unfortunately too often the emotion of hatred.
So in this particular case, now did I answer your question?
I'm sorry.
Well, I think you did, but you threw a kink in it when you talked about happy ghosts, and I do have heard of them.
So what does that add up to, then?
Does that add up to...
Some souls who want to be here can be here.
Otherwise... I don't have any final answers.
I have to put them in categories, my friend.
All right.
I have to say that there are those in which it seems there is a malignant energy.
Yes.
Sometimes I think the house itself hates people.
I mean, I think there is an energy within a house.
It may have nothing to do with the people involved, but somehow it poisons The people involved.
For example, almost every major hotel, I don't know if you know this or not, I've run into this, has what they call the suicide room.
Did you know that?
Have you heard of the Miss Paul Hotel here in Nevada?
No, but that may be one, huh?
It is one.
Okay.
It is one.
Where suicides happen, someone comes in, they feel depressed, they don't know, and suddenly they feel encouraged, they feel motivated to do the act.
So you know what I'm talking about.
Yes.
There seems to be a residue of emotions in some places.
In this particular house, I went into the back room with a psychic medium to try to get some impressions, and the door kept trying to close.
Now, to close, Art, it had to move uphill, because this is an old, old house, and the basement, you know, the floor was unlevel.
So it had to move uphill, and then it had to, part of the cement kind of stopped it, So it normally, even if it did blow in the wind, it would
be stopped by this little raising part, segment of the floor.
But this would move itself and try to close and lock me in to the room.
I had a friend of mine, Husky, former Green Beret, whose buddy...
Buddy always goes with me, used to go in these cases.
There are some other good sized men there.
So I said, hold the door open.
Don't let it close because we're trying to pick up impressions here.
When I finally then, when we finished, I said, okay, the darn door wants to be locked or
closed.
Close it and lock it.
Well that was the wrong thing to say and I said it was a little too much of an attitude.
I see.
We went upstairs.
We were just starting to pick up impressions in other parts of the house, and all of a sudden, BAM!
We're here in the basement.
And then it sounds like King Kong coming up from those basement stairs one by one.
Oh, that's where I'd be going.
The door then from the basement throws itself open and every one of us in the room were lifted into the air and then dropped.
Just as if to say, watch your mouth, Sonny.
I had my friends and they ran immediately down to the room that we had just locked and the door had literally been thrown off its hinges.
Oh my God.
Now, how did you manage to, at that point, even stay where you were?
I mean, my feet would be saying, get me out of here.
In those places, Art, I have to dissociate myself.
I mean, I know Again, through meditation, through prayer, through other areas, and this can be carried too far.
My wife is certain that I don't carry it, but I can enter a mental state where I just shut off my emotions, my reactions, and so forth, and just kind of become a camera, you know, recording what I'm doing.
An observer.
I'm in the scene, but I'm observing the scene.
And I think that's part of being a writer, too, because everything that happens to me, I know someday is just for my milk.
Everything that's happened to me, someday I'm going to write about it.
But again, I have to, and my wife is very good about saying, hey now, no, you're not the Brad machine.
Some of my friends have called me when I get into that, oh, the Brad machine is taking over.
So, you know, you're not the Brad machine, now you're back with us and so forth.
But in those cases, I have to, or like you say, I mean, I guess what it did for me too, because I had intellectualized this so much, I realized here again, My massive intellect didn't help at all in that case.
I mean, that door went flying off its hinges.
Something came up, something you could not understand, something you couldn't put in the test tube, something you couldn't put in the formula to explain away.
There was an intelligence, there was a force, there was an energy in that house that didn't want to be messed with.
It wanted to be respected.
Respected.
How many of you were lifted into the air?
Oh let's see, it must have been three women and four or five men.
And each of us men were 200 pounders.
All at once, my friend.
Uh, so you had insulted this entity?
Yes, I had.
Yes, I had.
And I have learned to be circumspect since.
I was young then.
I was much younger then.
Well, then the explorations of different houses, different areas.
Again, you were talking, you know, how to, we said, I said, I don't try to convince people anymore.
There was this one, the house again, originally the police asked us to investigate at the time.
Because so many phenomena.
This was a marvelous home, beautiful home, in which a former local politician had lived.
And when he passed away, his two maiden daughters lived there until their death.
But several people had seen, every night, from the field in which the old stables had been, Papa would materialize, walk across the lawn and into the house, And then you could hear the daughters talking to Papa.
I mean, he would come back each night to them, who now were getting up in years themselves.
I suppose to them, they simply went back in time and it was Papa coming in from checking the horses and having a normal evening with them.
So we investigated.
The caretaker was very cooperative.
The police officer who had put me on to the case, You know, was a good friend.
He'd taken crop circle pictures for me.
He was the eye in the sky.
Sure.
The traffic airplane cop.
Yes.
The eye in the sky.
Right.
So he was going to be with me.
He was the one that had set that up.
And I say he's been very cooperative, providing me flying different places, investigating UFOs.
He suddenly had to be somewhere else that night.
He was shifted in his duty roster and a police officer took his place.
We thought we were all crazy.
So he was with us during the day and thought, you know, he just never resisted a chance art to give me the needle.
So that night we're standing out there, the place where Papa is supposed to materialize or has been seen.
And right as clockwork, you see these like little sparkly lights starting to swirl.
And the policeman says to me, what's that?
I said, I don't see anything.
couldn't resist. It kept forming and forming until in front of us is this image, ghostly
sparking image of a man. And the police officer is going out of his head because I keep saying,
I don't say anything officer.
I couldn't resist because he's been giving me the needle all day.
So just at the time he's pulling out a service revolver, I say, no, no, no, no, no.
I said, I see it.
I'm sorry.
But I said, you kind of had it coming.
He said, yeah, I guess I kind of did.
But he says, what in hell are we seeing?
That's the first time I've ever put my hand in a ghost.
I couldn't resist because the image was so tangible, like a hologram being projected.
I'm sure shooting at it would have been poorly advised.
Poorly advised.
But I did stick my fingers into it and it was a tingly, tingly cold feeling.
You know, like we feel the cold spot in haunted houses.
Kind of like I've got on my spine.
Brad, hold there for just a second.
Oh boy, if that doesn't raise the hackles on the back of your...
Tingly, huh?
Well, I'm going to take you now to another world, inside world, inside your body.
These are called pycnogenitals.
You hand into an entity in a tingling feeling.
Now, see, you must have been in the classic Steiger mode, because there's no way in the world that I'd put my hand inside any entity.
But I have this insatiable curiosity.
Yeah, obviously.
Obviously, you're lucky to still be here, from my point of view.
Well, I've been told that by many people.
I'm sure you have.
So, did you just hold your hand in there or pull it out, or what?
I was respectful.
I'd learned respect by that time, you see.
I just had to.
Where are you going to get an opportunity like this again?
The majority of hauntings are sounds, they're feelings, they're moans, they're groans.
You get a really good materialization of that.
A physical manifestation.
So again it paid me no attention, which again as I say I have to put them in the category.
This was like a strip of film art that was being reactivated and did the same thing every
night.
It walked then into the house, didn't open the door but made the motion and walked through
the closed door and was then moving about.
You could see the light.
It was illuminated and you could see it moving from room to room in the house.
Again we had a number of police officers again interestingly.
A couple of police officers came back after we had left and had the same experience.
And burned rubber getting out of their arms.
That would have been my reaction.
Did they make a report on this or how did they handle this officially?
No, no.
Again, as I say, the majority Are situations where the police or someone has called us in to try to determine, do an exorcism if possible, to my knowledge, even though these are police officers who have read my books, who have made contact, who believe in a larger reality.
You're probably, though, the last turn they make in trying to... Oh, of course, of course, of course.
And, you know, again, that seems unfair on one level, but I understand that.
I understand that, because everyone wants to explain it, and first you go to your chief and say, you know, we have a haunting here, and he says, right, you've been working too hard, maybe you better take some leave.
So this was almost all done unofficial, but I can say I've done it with police captains, lieutenants, chiefs of entire areas, in major cities across the United States, you know, but it's all done on the QT.
Unofficially.
Alright, and this is going to be unofficial too, Brad.
Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman died terrible physical deaths.
O.J.
Simpson's been acquitted of those murders.
Nevertheless, they died terrible deaths.
Would you expect that to be the kind of case And I'm going to hold this good hook.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
But I'm going to ask you when we come back if you would expect that to be the kind of case that would produce after energy.
I'd be very pleased to answer that.
Good.
And you will when we come back?
We'll be right back.
Let me get it straight now.
Young woman is going to what is Okay, just give me a minute now.
Anyway, she goes to this particular office, and much as the case you related, suddenly when she goes there, it is not, she even looks out the window, it's not the campus of today, it's the campus of many years ago.
A woman is sitting at the desk, smiles, a very tall woman, a very elegant woman, stands walks toward her to say, May I help you? I think it was in
what is now one of the music rehearsal or practice rooms, was at one time then part of
the administration. So finally then, she was so convinced she had gone back in time when
she described it. So eventually then in a couple generations old yearbook, they found the
woman that she had seen who was a faculty member and described as very statuesque.
And it was the picture of the woman she had seen.
They were able to trace it.
They were able to go back.
So here again, she had literally walked back in time.
I've had other cases in hotel rooms where people, again, have walked onto another floor where, obviously, it's another time period.
It's a fascinating, fascinating area.
Is it worth trying?
If somebody wanted to actually try to travel in time, I remember how it was done in some way, to eliminate every possible reference to the current modern world, and then went into a state of very strong concentration.
And in despair, and then finally at the right moment, of course, he did travel in time.
I wonder, do you think that is possible?
I think it is possible.
Now, we did it through hypnosis.
We did this live on television.
You did?
Yes, we did.
ABC, if I may mention.
You may.
We, and I didn't realize this was going to happen, we had done a number of experiments in time travel and in out-of-body projection.
We first went on one experiment on one show which was live on TV so there's nothing you can do man, it's live.
So you're really, I mean talk about pressure.
So I sent the subject to the host who was taking over for the regular host to his home in Boston.
Not only did the subject describe his home exactly, described and looked at the makes of the various utilities and so forth, but then all of a sudden it began to describe people coming in the front door and a man thought his wife was alone home.
During commercial, he called his wife because he said, those sound like our friends from New Hampshire.
And sure enough, at that very moment, these friends had dropped by unexpectedly while we were projecting our subject there.
They challenged us then on another show, and they had experts in the audience, to go back to Lincoln's Gettysburg Address.
To send our subject back there and describe, and there are a number of Lincoln scholars, so any detail.
Well, our subject came up with several details.
Incredible.
Again, we're at the bottom of the hour, but it brings up again the question, who's the ghost?
Exactly.
Maybe we are.
Thanks, Brad.
Stay right there.
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I've made a deal with Mr. Steiger. 30 more minutes, he's all mine. Top of the hour after the news.
He's all yours.
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Hang tight, everybody.
We'll get there.
Good night.
All right, back now to the very much world-famous Brad Steiger.
And, uh, Brad, uh, we cut ourselves a little deal here.
You're... I absolutely... I'm an animal lover.
I love cats.
And I guess your wife has Did she author or co-author with you a book on animals?
Yes, we have co-authored Strange Powers of Pets, or Strange Powers of Pets, and now the new one, The Mystery of Animal Intelligence, and she feels especially proud of this one because this was written for the teenage audience.
It is to be a selection of scholastic books so that you know the kids get that right in the school with their catalogs and so forth or it will be on Well, before you leave it, I want to understand a little bit about it.
What is the premise?
How does it approach trying to understand animal intelligence?
And then part of the deal, Sheila...
What is the... well, before you leave it, I want to understand a little bit about it.
What is the premise? How does it approach trying to understand animal intelligence?
What we're trying to do in this book is to gain a respect for animal intelligence.
We have many recognized zoologists, biologists, and so forth,
who say that animals are strictly conditioned reflexes.
That's right.
Let me stop you right there.
I talked to somebody not very long ago who said, you know, if I see a raccoon or a rabbit and I'm driving down the street, I swerve and I squish them every time I get a chance.
You know, I thought when I heard that, Brad, If a person, to me, that's almost as much of a sin personally as killing a human being.
Now, obviously it isn't, but the intentional, mindless taking of life.
I mean, how dare we?
I mean, how dare that person, you know, have such a callous attitude, careless attitude toward life?
Just for the fun of it.
So, what this book is, again, is talking to those scientists, those zoologists, biologists, animal trainers, and so forth, With clear instances of a reasoning capacity of animals using tools, animals doing things that other people like this man you're talking about would not think animals were capable of doing.
So it's really a very rich book, and as I say, it was done specifically for the teenage or the educational market.
We were delighted.
I mean, they started with the first printing of nearly 150,000 on it.
So that the schools, and this is what her, because again, she, you know, with her educational background and ministerial background, she was delighted that we're reaching the young people that way, too.
Indeed.
And the title again?
The Mystery of Animal Intelligence.
Mystery of Animal Intelligence.
And how would people get that?
Well, it should be in all of the stores.
It is, excuse me, it is a tour book, and then the Scholastic people are going to feature it in the, in the, we'll be right, in the schools, where the kids can order it.
So, the parents can be on the lookout for it, and see that their child order it.
And then she has her book of inspiration, called Seasons of the Soul.
And that can be ordered at the same 800 number.
Which is?
number which is 800-777-3456 All right.
I'm curious.
Your research.
How do you decide?
Your time has to be very valuable and a lot of cases and mail and I'm sure pleas for help come your way.
How do you decide what to pursue?
Oh, that's so hard.
And to be frank, I can't do it the way I used to and I don't have I've gone literally every state, every province in Canada and in many, many places around the globe.
I've had to limit that to some degree.
I've put a lot of things on tape now for people.
In the same way with the books, I'm trying to relate more.
We dropped off the lecture circuit two years ago.
It's gruesome, isn't it?
Not to say that we won't do it again, Art, but we were gone two or three weeks out of the month.
We love people.
We love people.
We love the seminar and lecture situation, but we really thought We kind of have to retreat.
We kind of have to really focus on some of the books that we think are important to get out and really work our ministry that way.
We still do work individually when the occasion arises, but I can't go to as many haunted houses as I used to, though.
I mean, even if I'm sitting in the dental chair, someone will come in and say, I have this incredible thing happening in my house, you have to help me.
And you know, we'll always be and always Always want to be suckers for humanity.
I mean, we love people.
We want to work with people as much as we can.
But I'll just be frank.
You know, I've had a limited in recent years with other demands on our time.
All right.
Segway again.
This is an area that I'm recently very curious about.
And I used to laugh about it kind of, you know, all these tales about Bigfoot.
You heard Linda Moulton Howe on Dreamland when you were our guest last week.
She has a tape of a scream of a creature, allegedly Bigfoot rat, and I have never... I mean, I've heard it four or five times now because I keep making her play it.
It is the most blood-curdling, horrible, anti-human... I mean, it's just... Is there a creature like Is there Bigfoot?
Well, there certainly is something because again, when in my younger days and I had some buddies who were, you know, rangers and experienced woodsmen and ex-marines and we would take up on a moment's notice and we have gone all over and I've heard him and I've smelled him and I've found the droppings and I've picked up the hair Uh, and we've been in situations where people, I mean there are thirty men with thirty thirties and thirty-odd sixes ready to go out.
Uh, we found the dead cattle, we found the dogs that were broken in half.
There's something there for a while, but I'm becoming more and more convinced that again it's multidimensional or paraphysical.
Something in, something out.
Something in, something out.
Because, I mean, we've been in situations where nothing could have gone away.
I mean, there, I mean, And again, I've gone, whether it's Tennessee or California, I mean, it's all over, you know.
And I've talked to people who literally go out every weekend, you know.
In the South, they call them skunk apes, and they have their different names, whether it's Wok Wok, or Bigfoot, or Sasquatch.
I mean, I remember friends in Canada sent me, I guess it became kind of a popular tune, Old Daddy Bigfoot, I think it was.
Hit the charts for a while in Canada a few years back.
I mean, there's something there.
I'll tell you this story, which I've never put into print.
All right.
When we were pursuing, we thought, I mean, this was in an area where whatever it was, was creating havoc with the farmers and killing cattle and their dogs.
We managed to get a clump of hair.
And we took it to a very well accredited forensic scientist with a major university.
Yes.
When we came back to pick it up, the man was mad as blazes at us.
And he said, don't get me involved in this type of thing.
And we said, well, what do you mean?
Yeah, we kind of explained to him what it was.
He says, yeah, yeah, right.
Bigfoot.
Well, what's the trouble?
He says, well, you're trying to get me involved in some divorce proceedings, aren't you?
I said, what do you mean?
We said, well, this is I mean, he says it's it appears to be human or and human like.
I mean, and obviously you got this in somebody's bed and now you're trying to bring me.
So, I mean, he wouldn't even talk to us, but we were intrigued.
In other words, it misled this top forensic scientist.
Who does this for police departments all the time at one of the major universities.
Well, no, wait, I still, I'm a little unclear.
He was saying it was human-like, or... Well, first he said it was human hair.
Yeah.
And then when we said, no, wait, wait, wait, we told you what it was.
We told you where we found it, because it was on a barbed wire fence is where we got it.
Yeah.
And, but we knew it was because of the footprint of Bigfoot.
And he said, this is human hair.
What are you trying to pull on me?
So that really baffled us.
In other words, he thought it was human-like.
That threw another bizarre thing in it, because it was long, it was coarse, but it convinced him that it was enough like human that he thought he was being involved unknowingly in a divorce case.
You have talked many times of disappearances.
I keep going back to movies, but I recently saw The Langoliers, which I guess the whole rest of the world saw some time ago.
I actually rented it.
And again, it comes back to either a dimension or a time slip, or I'm not exactly sure what it is, but There are a lot of disappearances, Brad.
They're very hard to account for.
People who just suddenly, literally, blink out.
Yep.
I have the chapter in my book, Men and Women Who Walked Through Doorways to Other Dimensions.
In my book, Awful Thing in the Attic, because as I said, that is one of my favorite topics.
And a man here, I think there's something here if we follow it.
He started out from his house one day walking in the field and then suddenly saw or was aware that it wasn't quite his field and he looked around and it was Not quite his normal environment.
Right.
And the more he walked, he realized that it was so similar, but almost like an echo or a shadow of where he should walk.
Right.
Now, again, I think we can link this in with the legends of the wee people or the elves.
I think there is that Middle Earth.
I mean, again, quote, quote, around Middle Earth.
But that other dimension, that magic theater that is all around us, I think we can walk into those dimensions.
Okay, and do you wrap a lot of this into that Bigfoot Loch Ness?
Well, I think so, because again, the pictures, the photographs, like I say, we have the droppings, we have the hair, we have the footprints, but we don't have the entity itself.
I remember years ago, and are you familiar with the name Bernard Hevelmans or Ivan Sanderson?
I am not.
Bernard Hemelmans is the Belgian scientist who has written a number of books on cryptozoology.
Yes.
Ivan Sanderson was one of my mentors.
He was a regular on the Gary Moore Morning Show.
He was the zoologist that came on, like people do.
Others, David Letterman or Johnny Carson.
Yes.
At an earlier time, it was Ivan T. Sanderson, who was a world-renowned... He was originally from Scotland.
He was the zoologist.
And I remember the late night phone call I got and Ivan says, you know, I have found it lad, at last I have what I have searched my life and Bernie is here with me and they're in the northern part of Minnesota and they found what they believed at last was the corpse of Bigfoot.
Wow.
Now suddenly that became involved in one of the most incredible mysteries.
whatever happened now i thought not too long ago on unsolved mysteries and i
would have there is someone
portraying i've been in bernard and again uh...
it ended up they thought it was uh...
a map from planet of the eight from hollywood but again here we have to eminent zoologist
who distinct of the body of the feel of the body but suddenly when
other scientists came here with this rubber dummy now what happened to
their theory is and again uh... you know not to get anybody in any type of
trouble but as someone told me
the person one of the people responsible let's put it that way because i don't
want trouble for anybody
the person felt that he'd actually shot a human being
and arranged to dispose so that there would not be charges brought
Also, of course, it is unlawful to display a corpse.
So this person may have felt that he was going to get nailed on two counts and did the switch.
But I know that Ivan and Bernard and a few others, eminent zoologists, were in large sense discredited and in some sense never recovered.
And Ivan didn't live long after that experience.
You know Professor John Mack, I take it?
John Mack has gone through tribulation recently with Harvard, which was attempted to tamper a bit with his credentials.
They were actually bringing him nearly up on charges for investigating the alien abduction or abduction syndrome.
And I guess I wanted to ask you a little bit about that and put you out on the same sort of limb regarding people who claim
they are taken brad uh...
what do you think of this these people that keep claiming that they have been
taken into spaceships they've been taken into the earth they've been taken by
alien beings or beings of some kind
i think again i started writing
about abductions in the sixties uh... long before it was popular and i became very unpopular
uh... in research groups are writing about it People felt I shouldn't deal with this, that it was nonsense.
Makes people angry.
Yes.
Now, of course, it's almost de rigueur, you know?
That's right.
I don't have too much patience with those who claim that, you know, 40 million people have been abducted.
I think, certainly, that phenomenon is a very real one.
I think most of the cases happen, again, on the mental level.
I think in out-of-body type experiences.
There are so many similarities between the abduction experience and some near-death experiences, for example.
Oh, it's true, but I'm going to now move you from there right into the hardware phase.
This is from Rick in Reno.
He says, Art, I don't know if you're aware of this, and I wasn't, but Brad co-wrote Al Belick's book, The Philadelphia Experiment and Other UFO Conspiracies.
I think he probably did about 90% of the writing.
And Rick would like to know how much credibility you attach to the Bielek story.
I've interviewed Al Bielek.
Fascinating individual.
A real story of hardware and time.
Yeah.
So that kind of brings us full circle.
What did you think of his story?
Well, I've been very honest with this.
I did the Allende Letters in the 60's and I wrote a book on the Philadelphia Experiment then.
It grew out of an article I wrote for Saga Magazine.
Remember that wonderful magazine?
I do.
It brought me the most incredible mail of people who claimed to have had relatives on board Of people who claim themselves to have been on board, of families who claim they had relatives and institutions after the experiment.
Yes, sir.
I have to say that something happened.
Al, at the time, was the one who quietly provided me with a lot of the information and research.
Now, Al, over the years, has become a friend.
My wife and I were Probably the only people other than two or three relatives at his mother's funeral, for example.
We've loved this man.
We've had him in our home.
We were totally astonished when Al began to say that he was a participant.
Yes.
I'll leave it there.
All I want to say is every time I think there's nothing to this story, Someone, in whom I put a great deal of credence, comes up with another piece, another piece of the jigsaw puzzle.
So, in other words, something happened.
Something happened.
And whether people so identify with it that they become absorbed or... All right, we've got to hold it there.
Rest.
We'll be back.
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1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
1-800-825-5033.
This is the CBC Radio Network.
It certainly is.
1-800-618-8255, 1-800-618-8255, East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033, 1-800-825-5033.
This is the CBC Radio Network.
It certainly is. My guest, the incredible, world famous Brad Stein.
...psychologically, or who brought in discordant energies that really raised Cain. And I've had this happen with Phi
Beta Kappas.
I've had this happen with Dean's List A students, who again thought intellectually they were superior to all this
nonsense.
And just were almost psychologically destroyed. So I say, don't play around with it.
Suppose somebody said, alright, fine, I take it seriously.
I want to try to examine this world as Brad Steiger and others have done.
I want a serious approach to it.
How do you then advise them?
We're not going to party it up, but we do want to try a seance or we do want to try Well, again, I'd be terribly arrogant if I said no one else should approach it that way but me and a few others.
I would never say that because I think this enters into an area of what I call personal shamanism.
I think that we all have these abilities.
I think that we have the ability to reach out and touch higher intelligences, but this must be done again with prayer.
Shame on friends of mine, you know, who fast before they try this, who fast, go through a period of discipline, who go through prayer.
I think it requires, I'm serious, I think it requires that same kind of attitude.
That you become ministers, so to speak.
That you become priests.
That you become shamans.
That you really approach this area with that kind of seriousness and that kind of responsibility.
And then you have every right as a sovereign entity for you to expand your universe as well.
Just move carefully, cautiously.
Move carefully.
Move carefully.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Brad Steiger.
Good evening.
Hello.
Hello.
All right.
Very much like.
Yeah, it's about symmetrical objects and he's seen...
Mm-hmm.
I believe that's possible.
Mm-hmm.
I think they might be like mandalas.
Very much like.
I did not at the age of 11 know mandala, but certainly I have seen some mandalas since
that did resemble.
Some of the Sufi art, even some Persian rugs, if you will, have come somewhat close.
I wondered if maybe some of those rugs were designed in an altered state of consciousness.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm kind of a symmetrical being.
My right half and left side, they have...
They do things like I'll get a pimple on my right cheek and a few days later it'll appear on the left cheek, same side.
Oh, I've heard of people like that, yeah.
Am I a symmetrical bean?
You could be.
Where are you calling from?
Boise, Idaho.
Alright, Brad.
This also occurs to me.
That's the reason I call resonates with me.
I'll get a little skin mark on one side, then I'll get it in the same place on the other.
Interesting.
Interesting.
What, what physically could explain?
You're not a doctor.
I'm not a doctor.
No.
What could explain that?
Again, I think it is your innate desire to be in balance.
And that's really the key.
Maybe I didn't mean to sound pompous a minute ago when I said how seriously we should take it, but the key to all of this is, as my friend Sun Bear would say, the medicine priest, walk in balance.
We have to be in balance before we approach any of these spiritual disciplines or spiritual tasks.
I think you may have within you, my friend, just an innate desire to be in balance, which expresses itself even in physical rashes.
Boy, did you hit that one on the head.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Brad Steiger.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
Where are you?
My name is Larry.
I'm calling from Abilene, Kansas.
Hi, Larry.
I just wanted to say something about the images, the concentric geometry.
No, we're getting a lot on that.
Okay, Larry, let's hear it.
Well, I've experienced something like that myself.
By the way, I'm also a Seneca Indian, so I see.
Okay.
But I get images like that whenever I'm in a feverish state.
And it only happens, not just the fever, but when I'm, say, when I'm sleeping and feverish.
I know exactly what you're talking about with those images.
Isn't that something?
So few people have responded and suddenly, look at the feedback we're getting tonight.
People have had that experience.
I really appreciate your calling, all of you.
Alright, I interviewed Robert Monroe of the Monroe Institute.
Mr. Monroe talks of, speaks of, multi-levels of ascension.
Is that your view of things are there multi multiple levels of ascension
although i i think that almost have to be art i've always avoided
terminology like that i i try to keep everything is but we have to use words that we have to use words
uh... certainly when you're in that you know non non-verbal state when all of this comes
together and eternal vow but then if you do have to try to translate it but i think
there have to be level
just as i believe uh... in powers and principalities i believe in the
hierarchies i i i'm i'm reluctant to one there's one part of me
again that being cold intellectual part that that doesn't want to and
then there's the part of me that experiences and explores that says
I mean, you have to somehow try to put it.
Maybe you're dealing with the infinite, but you do have to put it in finite terms if you're going to communicate.
All right.
Are we at, do you suppose, the lowest level?
In other words, in our physical bodies, are we at the lowest level?
Is everything up beyond us?
Or are there lower levels?
Or what do you imagine?
I know I'm asking for a lot of speculation.
Sure.
I think there are lower levels.
I think it is a really nifty thing to be a human being.
But I think so few of us recognize our potential.
And what I try to do in my books, if I don't sound presumptuous, and I hope I don't, is to get people to explore their potentials.
I don't care.
I've been to lectures where people stand, someone stands up, I disagree with you.
I said, but did I make you think?
The person said, yes, you did.
And that's what I'm trying to do, is get people to explore their potentials.
To realize that they can be so much more than they ever believed they could be.
So I don't think we're at the lowest level.
I think we're at a lower level than the higher beings around us.
But I think we really are a transitional species.
I really think we are the link between ape and angel.
All right.
Hold it right there.
That's a good one.
And from St.
Paul, Minnesota, Lynn would like to know, Brad, whether, a big fan of yours by the way, whether you have read a book called Nothing in this book is true, but it's exactly how things are by Bob Frizzell.
I don't think I've read that one, no.
Because he discusses, you might want to, he discusses the same sort of geometric patterns That you've been talking about.
Okay.
So here it is.
It's just a flood of information.
You say it, Gordon Michael Scallion says it, and all of a sudden we're flooded.
Yeah.
Let's try a quick call, see if we have time.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Brad Steiger.
Good evening.
Hi, Art.
Hi, Brad.
Hi.
I'm calling from California.
Okay.
And I met Brad in 1983 at a Dick Stutzman conference in Arizona, and he told me, telling Some of the things that have happened to me and he told me to write about it and I am a writer but I find that I always have a writing block when it comes to the abductions that I've had and other things.
It's a good question.
Brad, when you're trying to apply, obviously you're successful with that many books, how do you find words to describe the indescribable?
Well, that's the challenge.
That's what writing is all about.
It's translating the thought, that non-physical vibration in our brain, to paper, and then that's only the half of it.
It has to resonate with the same buzz in the people who read it.
So again, the people who are blocked, I kind of do a Zen thing.
I try to write at the same time every day, but I certainly put myself into a very relaxed state.
I don't intimidate myself with that doggone white paper staring at me.
I just say, you know, I can do it.
I've got something to share.
I've got something worthwhile.
People, I love them.
If I'm excited about a subject, I just know there's someone out there who's excited.
I've only written, the only model and guide I've ever had, all these books are, is I write a book that I would like to read.
And that's been my guide from book one to book 134 now.
So a little meditation on her part.
All right, Brad, sit tight.
We'll be back to you right after the top of the hour.
And we are going to have to take a break here, and I want to take one more opportunity, if I could please.
My publisher notified me that the first edition of my new book is going to be very shortly gone.
I want to thank everybody who has gone crazy buying it.
It's out shipping this week.
If you would like a copy of my new book called The Art of Talk, which covers Dreamland topics, covers talk radio, covers my life.
And by the way, we've got a photograph of a ghost in there.
That's what I wanted to talk to you about.
Photograph of a ghost.
Boy, have I got a good one.
It's in my book, and we'll talk about it when we come back.
My book, if you'd like to order at The Art of Talk, call now!
1-800-864-7991.
1-800-864-7991. That's 1-800-864-7991.
World famous Brad Steiger to get a copy of this program.
I repeat now, to get a copy of this program, you may call 1-800-917-4278.
1-800-917-4278.
And I mentioned a photograph of a ghost in my book.
I'm going to be asking... It is in my book.
1-800-917-4278 and I mentioned a photograph of a ghost in my book. I'm
going to be asking it is in my book. There are so many photographs in my book
that it's hard to recall them all but since we're talking about this area I do have a
very very sharp photograph the best I've ever seen of a ghost.
Brad has many in his book.
We'll talk to you about that in a moment.
Again, the number to order my book before the first edition runs out, I can't believe
that's occurring, is 1-800-864-7991.
Do I sound excited about it?
I am, yes.
Brad Steiger.
Hi, Brad.
Hi.
Your latest book is called The Awful Thing in the Attic.
What a great title.
It is a compilation, you say, of some of the best of the best.
Yeah, some of the things we've been talking about tonight.
And you have Now, let me tell you, and then we'll give out the number for your book, but in the book that I am just now coming out with, I have a picture, Brad, a stonemason down in Arizona.
Um, had done some work in about a hundred year old home down in Arizona.
And he took a photograph.
He was proud of his work.
So when he was done, he took a photograph of the stonework.
And I'm telling you, Brad, I've never seen anything like it in my life.
And I've seen a lot of things portending to be ghosts.
Right.
But this was clearly a kind of smoky, I would, I would describe it as a smoky Um, semi-translucent being.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, no question about it.
I mean, clear as it can be.
Uh, I put it in my book, and I, I, every time I look at this photograph, it sends chills down my spine.
This is a ghost!
Yeah.
Well, I've got some of my favorites in the book, as you might suspect.
Sure.
And then, I have the handwriting of a ghost.
The famous Borley Rectory in England, called England's most haunted house for years, The entity began writing when one pastor or Episcopalian moved in and his wife seemed to really somehow activate this sympathy, sort of a sympathical rapport with the entity and began to write
To Marianne, the priest, pastor's wife.
So, one of the investigators of that famous case, Morley Gregory Burns some years ago, but sent me specimens of that handwriting of a ghost.
I've included that in the book as well.
All right.
How do people get your latest?
Well, hopefully, as with all the others, it would be in their favorite bookstore.
But if not, if I may give out an 800 number... You may.
It is 800-777-3454.
That's a good number.
1-800-777-3454.
And they want to ask for?
3454.
Well, that's a good number.
1-800-777-3454.
And they want to ask for?
They want to ask for the awful thing in the attic.
You know, how come you decided to call that instead of the awful thing in the basement?
Everybody knows that bad things are usually in the basement.
Yes, but in a house, in architecture, what is the attic?
What does that represent?
The mind.
So the basement is the earthy part where maybe demons exist, but the demons that exist in the mind might be even more fierce than those that exist in the basement.
Oh boy.
You wouldn't go so far as to say that the better things are in the attic and the more evil Darker things are in the basement.
That would be one level, but if we look at it architecturally, the attic would represent the psyche or the mind or the soul.
So part of the book is also symbolic of art, of saying, you know, we have to keep our attic clean.
All right.
Back to a couple of calls east of the Rockies.
You're on the air with Brad Steiger.
Hi.
Hi.
Just a thought.
You were talking about the geometric images earlier, and I was wondering if there might be any connection between them and crop circles.
Ah.
All right.
Where are you, sir?
Abilene, Kansas.
Abilene, Kansas.
It's a good question, Brad.
It is a good question.
These were so colorful and so intricate.
Now, I have seen some very intricate crop circles, but But who can say?
Who can say?
Maybe this is the primum mobilium.
Maybe that's what I touched and maybe that's what's showing up in the crop circles.
Have you seen images of crop circles that remind you of the shapes you saw?
seen images of crop circles that remind you of the shapes you saw?
No.
No, no. The only thing I've ever seen that reminds me, as I say, is these fractal geometric
designs, fractal geometry.
All right, here's one that was inevitable, a high art, love the show, calling my friends to let them know how to tune in now.
Please ask your guest who he believes Jesus was.
Jesus is whomever you wish him to be, whoever you want him.
This is a powerful entity in his past.
To me, Jesus is our photograph of God.
That's wonderful.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Brad Steiger.
Hi.
Yes, hi.
Brad, years ago you wrote an introduction to a book written by Paul Twitchell called In My Soul I Am Free.
And for the listeners who don't know, Paul Twitchell is an out-of-body traveler, a la Robert Monroe.
And I was wondering, since Paul Twitchell left the physical plane I believe was around 1971.
If you could share some of your experiences with him.
I have heard incredible things about this man who I even heard that was able to change
the local weather according to his wishes and several other phenomenal stories.
Well, I guess you know from reading the introduction, I was present one of those times when he changed the weather.
That's what I recall.
Oh, I would like to hear about that myself.
Well, Paul Twitchell was the living Eckmaster of Eck and Carr.
I was privileged to know him for a number of years.
He was a fascinating fellow.
He never pressured me at all to become an echoist or to join his particular movement.
I guess he recognized me as a young scholar of the unknown, and we became friends on that level.
We would meet just as friends in different cities in the United States, just to spend time.
But I've always felt as though I'm walking through time, and I think Paul Twitchell was one of those who walked through time.
Well, the lady said something about you were present when the weather was changing.
Well, I was present a number of times when, like Powerful Shaman.
I've seen Shaman do it as well, but Paul Twitchell had that ability to seemingly reach up and arrange the thermostat the way he wanted to.
To change from rain to sun or vice versa, depending upon.
He was a remarkable man, and I really felt as though I was privileged to know him at a very important developmental time of my life, and I've included material about him in a couple new books that will be coming out as a matter of fact.
Brad, I've got to ask you about something real serious.
Very serious.
I have been watching over many years now, and because of the nature of the work I do, I'm on top of the news every day.
I have never in my life Seen as many volcanic eruptions, as many earthquakes, as many hurricanes.
I believe we're down to P. That's right.
And in all of record keeping, Brad, it's never been.
What's going on?
Well, I was privileged some years ago from Scientists brought me two semi-trailer truckloads of material in which they had been studying with a staff of thousands the weather.
I put this together in a book called Road Map of Time.
Which outlined everything that's happening now, but I guess it scared the heck out of everybody.
It was the big seller in Britain and Europe, but it did nothing here.
Well, it's scaring me.
I call it, I call it... This was done, the Nazis tried to steal this information in World War II.
These two scientists in Chicago had staff of thousands put all this together, and I put it, they bring me, they brought me, their heirs brought me this material.
I spent two years putting it together.
Uh, called, uh, Roadmap of Time, which I thought was a tricky little title, too, but, um, France and England loved it.
Um, but, uh... What was the... Anyway, this is, this is time cycle art.
Yes, sir.
And we're in it, we're entering a period of volcanism.
Yes, sir.
We're entering a period of volcanism and dramatic Earth changes.
And it's, uh, it's nothing that's happened because we're evil and nasty.
It's just the roadmap of time.
It's the calendar of time.
It's just like, Winter comes for us here in the Midwest, not because of any particular thing we have done or haven't done.
It's the season.
This is the season for volcanism and storms and hurricanes.
Even before we started mucking it up with global warming and so forth.
Brad, is there, as we understand it, and there are the Mayan calendar and people feel there may be errors in the Mayan calendar and feel that literally the end of time is not far ahead.
I feel it's a transition.
I'm the eternal cockeyed optimist.
And I think we're on the very brink of those... I think we're going to see more and more people beginning to make quantum leaps.
I think we are in the process of evolving from homo sapiens to homo spiritus, thinking man to spiritual man.
And, you know, regretfully, in every quantum evolutionary leap forward, we will pray that as many people will be open to this and prepare for this as possible.
We know that some people will resist.
Some people perhaps will not be prepared for that transition.
But we do have an opportunity.
I don't think we're coming to the end of the world.
I think we're coming to a dramatic transitional phase.
Well, certainly something.
Economically, politically, socially, every area you look at right now, I have sort of summed it up by calling it the quickening.
It feels like a quickening.
Things are moving... That's a good term, Art.
Yeah, they're moving faster and faster and faster, and it's headed towards something.
Yeah, that's a very good term.
The number one thing, aspect, question, comment that I get in the hundreds of letters I get every week is, Expressing what you have just said, my friend, that time is accelerating, that people know they're supposed to be doing something.
Yes.
The number one thing I get asked is, what is my purpose?
What is my mission?
And again, I'm not trying to be coy, but I have dealt with this in so many books and I do refer them to certain books where I do try to show people techniques and exercises whereby they can hopefully achieve greater insight into their mission and purpose in life.
So, more spiritualism.
Well, that's... I think we are here for that reason.
I think this is Schoolhouse Earth, and I think we are here given opportunities for graduation and progression.
Or, we have the opportunity to become extinct as the duffel bird, if that's our want.
And yet, more and more these days, Brad, there seems to be evidence of the opposite.
You know, someone takes a wrong turn down an alley and children are shot by gangs who have nothing better to do.
This is all part of this unrest.
As I said, these scientists had studied every aspect of human endeavor, including sociological eruptions, including political unrest, including all of these things.
I don't think I've ever been so disappointed.
I've been so blessed to have so many of my books achieve, you know, hundreds of thousands, millions of copies and so forth.
This book did nothing.
I think it's one of the most important.
And I'm not bragging because I edited it.
I took this material.
I'm not taking credit for any of this material.
I was privileged to put it together, and as I say, I got permission from France, from England, from everywhere.
There were maps and diagrams and charts.
It just disappeared.
Here's something that I want to ask you that I've been wondering about myself.
I have had great success, Brad.
You have had great success in your field.
Are there quiet moments where you wonder and ponder why?
Why are you so successful, whether something special has been given to you or whether you owe something because of it?
I think every person who achieves some level of success has serious moments of pondering why.
All the time.
All the time.
I felt I was, when I died at age 11, I came back an ower.
I mean I felt that I had the responsibility to share this, to share this good news that
we are more than physical things, that we are spiritual beings, that we have an opportunity
to help others.
I think the bottom line is sharing and being one with others.
The oneness is the important thing to me, and again, I feel blessed, and I feel that uh... people played my goodness why do you keep going what
you keep doing that what you keep
and i can't tell about five can't share enough i i'm just uh...
uh... and fortunately my wife is the same way she had near-death experience
as children she is an ordained uh... protestant minister
and i guess we are both just on fire with the deal This is our mission.
See, we look upon it as a mission or a ministry, but I think people will agree, and I get wonderful letters saying, we're so happy, you're so objective, you don't push, you just present.
And that's what I try to do, because I, I, I mean, if anyone, if I sit down beside someone who says, I have the only answer, I have the only way, I know I'm going to get off that bus.
I mean, I'm not going to go on a bus trip with someone who has all the answers, the only way, the only purpose.
Those people worry me as well.
Stand by, Brad.
We'll be right back.
A little bit of business, then we'll be right back.
Back now, a couple minutes before the bottom of the hour.
Are you there, Brad?
I am here, Art.
All right.
Let's see if we can get a couple calls in.
Okay.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Brad Steiger.
Hi.
Uh, wait a minute, let me do that.
Okay, now you're on the air, I think.
Hello?
Hello, where are you?
I'm from Illinois.
Illinois.
Is that right?
Alright.
Uh, hello, Art?
Yes.
Uh, Mr. Steiger.
Yeah?
You mentioned a Mr. Sun Bear.
Yes.
Who I believe established the Bear Tribe Medicine Society.
That is correct.
Who believes that a cycle of civilization is coming to a close.
Mm-hmm.
And you are familiar with the Hopi prophecies.
of a day of purification. Most certainly. In the coming of the blue star, Kachina. And
there is a strong belief among the Pahopian and other Indian tribes that this tail pot
could be a fulfillment of their prophecy. Oh, sounds like it. What tribe are you? I
am just researching. All right.
Okay, because you've picked up a tribal accent there.
I was trying to figure out which one.
I thought so too, Brad.
There is a big comet on the way called Hale-Bopp.
You know about it?
Could it be this blue star?
Well, again, My wife is half Chippewa as well as being Swedish and French.
She has worked with shaman and medicine people of many tribes as have I. I love these people and I feel at one with them.
I feel these things are very much symbolical.
I feel that we are in that time of great purification.
Excuse me, purification is what I choose.
Not the end of the world, but another time of purification in which, you know, and I always hate to be doomsday at all, but as I say, perhaps not everyone is going to make it through, but a time of purification that my wife and I feel is coming.
And maybe this comet will herald it.
Alright, maybe it will herald it in.
More of Brad Steiger and Dreamland in just a moment.
But they exaggerated.
I presume that you try to be very careful about exactly that when you're relating accounts, for example, in the awful thing in the attic.
Exactly.
All right, very good.
Somebody's been waiting a long time here.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Brad Steiger.
Hi.
No problem.
My name is Jack, calling from Philadelphia, Washington.
Hello, Jack.
Hi, Jack.
I'm wondering if you're familiar with an author by the name of Brant, B-R-A-N-T, Kyle from Berkeley, California, published The War in Heaven, 1989, Stone Press, called SR Press.
He, like yourself, has an attention toward I think it addresses the importance of attention in manifestation and how it empowers the manifestation and that perhaps there might be rather than a field of daisies at the edge of the cliff beyond that in empowering manifestations and the cultural symbols that we pay attention to and aside from rather than the idea of perceiving conflict as empowering the dark side rather than acknowledging that there is a war in heaven and that this time of transformation might be
a final contest. He names it the invisible college, that which would further our race
and help us to transform and what he calls a group of spiritual manifestations called
the elementals that have hung around too long and have begun to pervert and feed, harvest
human attention.
You've read enough of my books to know that I have dealt with exactly that topic and that theme very often, and very much believe that there is a war in heaven, if you choose to put it in those terms, that there are powers and principalities, and that we as human beings may indeed be the prize.
and the prize of war, so to speak.
The spoils of war, if you really want to be denigrating, I guess, to some people's ego.
And so I very much believe that.
A British author, you said something about a staggering amount, Art.
He has written a book called The Dark Gods, in which he refers to the stagger effect, which I... Well, in one of my books I say, you know, again, how we deal with negativity is to confront it, always being cautious and so forth, but how, you know, we must drive it back.
So I definitely I don't think I'm familiar with this particular book.
Again, please forgive me because people send me books and things.
I love it, but sometimes I can't always keep up.
But certainly the caller is right.
My wife and I have dealt with that particular theme in a number of our books.
Well, if it is a war and we are the prize, it seems like we ought to be rooting for one side or the other, eh?
Well, and that's the ticklish part, because by their words you shall know them.
But again, as my wife always says so well, How does the negative, the dark side, present itself?
It'll never present us as ugly monsters.
It's always going to be the seductive, beautiful things that they will throw at us to delude us and seduce us.
It requires balance.
It requires discipline and discernment.
Try this on for size.
I'll let it haunt you the way it has haunted me.
Alright.
There is a friend of mine, the son of Bill Lear, John Lear.
I'm sure you've heard the name.
Yes, I know John.
One of my programs years ago, he said something that I'll never forget.
He said, Art, it is my feeling, or I've been told, let me get this straight, that when you die or have a near-death experience, the light is a trick and you should go to the darkness.
I could not accept that from my personal experience, Art, but I would translate what John said, because I know John.
We are certainly acquaintances.
I would interpret that as continual vigilance.
As I said, discipline, discernment, and we must be vigilant always.
One of my books, I guess, that I resonate with in terms of the title is One with the Light, which as we speak is being made into a pilot film for it.
Hopefully, we'll sell it.
There'll be a series which deals with the near-death experience, but also the entire aspect of what it tells us about ourselves, about what we really are and who we really are and how to utilize this energy.
I would not say go to the darkness.
I would say learn to discern and discriminate who the players are.
As I've often said, when some people have said, oh, I want to go for a ride in a UFO, and if the UFO lands, I will get in it and go off to them.
I said, well, before you do that, see the driver's license.
I mean, you want to know who you're kidding aboard with.
There you are.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Brad Steiger.
Where are you calling from, please?
Uh, Utica, New York?
Utica, all right.
Uh, turn your radio off.
Okay.
There you go.
Uh, go ahead, ma'am.
Um, I wonder if Mr. Steiger, uh, his opinion on, uh, meditation or transcendental meditation?
All right.
Uh, I guess that's, we've been talking a lot about that.
In other words, that is the path to The greater understanding, is it not?
Well, certainly meditation, Transcendental Meditation may refer to a particular kind.
I am not conversant enough.
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