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Sept. 24, 1995 - Art Bell

01:45:19

Dreamland with Art Bell - Linda Moulton Howe - Canadian UFOs - Nanodreams - Elton Elliot

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	Welcome to Teamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience
	not easily nor neatly put in a box.
	Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped.
	And yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe, but don't see.
	This is Dreamland.
	It is, and I'm Art Bell.
	Hi everybody.
	It is Sunday once again, and here we are, as scheduled.
	I would like to acknowledge an award given in Phoenix for the best radio talk show.
	This is it, Dreamland.
	It's a great honor, thank you.
	It's in the paper down there, it was in the paper, and it's a great honor.
	And I'm sure KFYI is honored to be carrying it and have it so awarded.
	Thank you.
	As a matter of fact, adding to the Dreamland affiliates This week, WSPC-AM in Albemarle, North Carolina.
	Hello there, North Carolina.
	WFNT-AM in Flint, Michigan.
	Now there's a good place to be, Flint, Michigan.
	Glad to have you on board.
	Make that a K, K-Y-L-R-A-M in Huntsville, Texas.
	Welcome to the network and KSYG in Little Rock, Arkansas.
	Good to have you on board.
	Rounding out the number of affiliates now, carrying Dreamland to a nice, tasty, even 150.
	You can tell the rate at which it is growing along with the other syndicated show now at 217 affiliates.
	It's going nuts out there, folks.
	As usual, Linda Belton Howe.
	Considered to be the world's expert on crop circles and animal mutilations.
	We'll be back into her field, I understand, with a report this evening.
	And then, off into the world of nano-dreams.
	The story of nanotechnology, with Elton Elliott.
	Alton has done a very great deal of work, has written a number of books, and I think you're going to find it absolutely fascinating.
	I know I do.
	So, nanotechnology in your immediate future.
	But first, of course, Linda Howe.
	Let me begin, though, by taking care of this.
	It is a pleasure, and it's kind of right down the alley of Dreamland in a lot of ways, because it sounds High-tech, it sounds unbelievable, but it is true.
	GMX magnetic water conditioning works.
	I'm telling you it works.
	I use it here.
	Welcome to the program, Linda.
	Well, hi Art, and welcome to more new stations.
	I'm glad to hear Dreamland is expanding and glad to hear the Yeah, isn't that something?
	Best talk show award.
	I believe that it was the first time that that award was ever given to an outside show
	or a syndicated program.
	So we're pretty proud of it.
	Well, it's great.
	You know, last week on Dreamland, as we keep trying to stay at the edge of stories that
	are breaking on several fronts, ranging from...
	This hour of Artville was recorded for rebroadcast at this time.
	Please do not call.
	...the paranormal to the whole huge complex UFO phenomena, which now is...
	is featuring the possibility that we're actually being introduced to other life forms through autopsies that the government has hidden.
	Before, and I know you're going to head away from this topic quickly because you've got something else, but before we leave the subject of the autopsy, we were talking, and I think we ought to share this with the audience.
	I've had various faxes saying, well, you know, this didn't look right, or that didn't look right, but Linda, so far, and I have a big information base, and so do you, not one person has shot a big hole into the alien autopsy film as seen, thus far, not one big hole.
	Right, and since I interviewed London music video producer Ray Santilli for Dreamland last week about the alleged Socorro, New Mexico UFO crash and retrieval of humanoid bodies, both dead and alive, on a date of June 3rd, 1947, Completely different from the July 1947 Roswell crash.
	I've received off-the-record communications from three people who say the autopsy film is real.
	One communicator said that in his work for the government that he had read classified government documents about both Corona, New Mexico and a completely different flying saucer crash.
	Flying saucer being the term used in the 40s.
	Located between Socorro and Magdalena, which is where the cameraman associated with the Ray Ventilli film says he photographed both three live aliens and a dead one and a silver disc.
	This contact said that he has actually seen film from the Corona, New Mexico crash site on the Mack Braggle Ranch and emphasized that the non-human beings there were quite different than the Socorro humanoids.
	You said the Corona crash site beings had very large heads with eyes like a cat or reptile, meaning vertical foot pupils, and that the hands had four long fingers, not six fingers, as the humanoids have in the Socorro autopsy.
	So each week, Art, more circumstantial information piles up to support reports that there have been several different UFO crash sites in retrieval since the 1940s.
	Well, maybe it's breaking it all open.
	Yeah, maybe we are at that time, finally.
	And as Ray Santilli said in the interview, he's been receiving information about other films and photos which might be forthcoming in the months ahead, and I'm going to try to stay on top of these events as they unfold.
	And while we've all been informed with the humanoid autopsy footage, and the controversy about whether or not these are real extraterrestrials from off-planet somewhere, Right around us people are reporting encounters with live entities that don't seem to be human either.
	And some of the current eyewitness accounts also involve the animal mutilation mystery.
	Recently I interviewed a Canadian farmer who has lost a dozen cattle since January.
	And even more in 1994 after he saw a strange blowing object in his Saskatchewan pasture last March.
	It was about midnight and he was checking cows about to calf.
	This is his story.
	All the way from Canada.
	I walked out there and checked my cows and got to the end of the trail and then I heard something like a tractor or like a machine running about a half a mile away or a mile away, just a hum.
	A hum, eh?
	And I kept looking around and I spotted this thing down there in the field.
	What did you see?
	It was about a quarter of a mile away.
	It was, uh, kind of greenish.
	Looked like in a saucer shape.
	And it was, uh, it looked like it was sitting maybe about two feet off the ground, eh?
	Like it wasn't really embedded right into the, into the grass and debris down there.
	It was just kind of, maybe lifted up about three feet off the ground, something like that.
	And, uh, I just stared at it, and of course the hair on the back of your neck kind of stands up.
	Mm-hmm.
	And it gives you a funny feeling, and, uh, I had a flashlight.
	I never even lit the flashlight, because I thought, well, I didn't want to be seen.
	I just wanted to watch.
	And then, uh, I made some kind of a remark, like, uh, what in the hell do you bastards want, or something like that, from me, eh?
	You know, I said, real loud, eh?
	And I just watched it, and, uh, there was, I think, two figures, two little figures come around on each side of it, like, you know, from the glare from it, from the machine, you could see.
	These two figures in front, it was, you know, it was dark.
	What did they look like?
	Oh, I don't know.
	They were about, I'd say maybe two and a half, three feet tall or something like that.
	Uh-huh.
	They looked something like a half, a half dinosaur and half man or something like that.
	They kind of had long skinny bodies and longer heads out of me.
	Okay, so something that was sort of lizard-like or reptilian looking?
	Yeah, something like that, uh, I can recall.
	I didn't see no long tails on them or anything, but, you know, they were just, uh... And they kind of just scurried around in front there for half a second and, uh, made themselves more or less visible to me.
	And all of a sudden the thing took off, eh?
	I can't remember if I talked to it before I seen him, or I think I seen him first before I said, what the hell do you guys want from me, you know?
	Mm-hmm.
	And then I, then the thing just lifted up, kind of went into a light, like, changed into a light color, like, uh, you know, Kind of an orangish-yellow color.
	So it went from green to orangish-yellow?
	Yep.
	And, uh, it just hovered above the trees there, and just more or less fit in like a, not like a star, but, you know, like it was, you could tell it was different.
	It was just above the tree line, and I walked to the house here.
	And I woke up to family and said, look, you guys, see that light over there?
	I said, it was just on the ground over there.
	And I said, it was green.
	I said, no, it's bright yellow.
	And, uh, We watched it for a few minutes and finally it started to move a little bit.
	Huh.
	We went to bed.
	After that, uh, did you have any animal mutilations that spring?
	Uh, yeah.
	In fact, I think we did.
	Down in another pasture.
	We had, uh, uh, the kids and the wife went down to check the cows.
	They said there was a calf there with the ears cut off.
	Uh-huh.
	Flush with the head.
	And that was what month?
	That was in 94 of the summer, I guess.
	Okay, so not, uh, maybe a month or two after the sighting in the... Oh, probably two, three months after.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	The calf had the ears cut off.
	Okay.
	When they went and seen it, like, and they come home and told me, and I said, the next day, I said, well, let's go look.
	I said, you know, it's awful odd.
	One or two days later.
	And, uh, then we couldn't find, uh... The calf at all?
	Couldn't find the calf at all and we found the cow.
	Yeah, she was dead, eh?
	She had been mutilated at the back end and the face was done pretty good on her.
	And that was the mutter of the calf that had disappeared?
	Yes.
	And on the head, what was taken from the cow, the mother cow?
	Oh, the tongue and the jaw, like all the meat back on the jaw and the back end of her.
	How long have you been ranching and farming in this same farm area?
	Since about 1970 or 71.
	Okay, so at least 25 years in the same farm.
	Yes.
	And over those 25 years, how many animals have you lost to this unusual death with excisions of tissue?
	Oh, we've got to be in the 20s somewhere.
	The nearest we can figure it's been probably about... Well, we've had 12 this year, so I'd say probably near $20, $24, somewhere in that area over the years.
	Alright, and what's been the average value on the animals that you've lost this year?
	How much, how many dollars per animal?
	Oh, probably around the $800 mark or something.
	That's a commercial call, isn't it?
	Right.
	They're not purebreds or nothing, but it does hurt.
	Yeah, that's about $9,600 or almost $10,000 in animals.
	In this summer, yeah.
	Are you able to get any insurance money on these animals?
	Well, Linda, the problem we have here is the insurance policy reads if it's mutilated, they'll pay.
	But we can't find anybody that wants to come out and tell us they're mutilated, even though they can see it.
	What is it, in terms of your own mind, as you look at these 12 animals this year and the others in the past, that makes them different from predator kills?
	What's the difference?
	Yeah, from your point of view.
	Oh, there's no doubt in my mind.
	Like a predator will pull.
	These are real nice.
	These are cut so nice and carved away with a knife.
	For instance, like even after a few days, the hooves on the cow, you know, they'll pull right off.
	Like they've been, you know, like this.
	The same as if there's any horns on them.
	I never had no horns, no, but two years ago I had one with horns.
	You could grab that horn and pull it right off and all you had left was just the meaty part of the horn inside.
	Right.
	Now this kind of rigging works because it takes time, like two or three years on a normal basis, eh?
	Like, you know, you can butcher a bull, you can kill a bull, take the head and you'll never pull the horns off.
	It can hang there for years, you know what I mean?
	Right.
	And whereas these here, you can grab them and just pull the horn right off.
	There's some form of energy that's exerted on these animals.
	And this is where our problem is coming in.
	If these guys would acknowledge that it's not predators... You could get insurance?
	Yes.
	You know, we'd get something out of it.
	We don't know what we're going to do.
	Are we going to sell the cow herd?
	Are we going to have to move on to something else?
	Because, I mean, there's no crop up here this year.
	So we're pretty well financially strapped right now.
	And this farmer, he doesn't want to have his name known.
	I don't blame him a bit.
	Yeah, and I've talked with so many in the same situation, but he said to me, you know, maybe by at least sharing what's happened to me, that some other farmers will feel like that they can also come forward and maybe if we all started talking about what's happening, we might be able to change things.
	At least I'm hoping that by being able to share these reports like this from this Canadian farmer that we can help other people feel more confident about reporting such things as Animal mutilations or unusual deaths and possible associations with life.
	Well, I can just see sitting down with an insurance adjuster explaining about the disc and the little reptilian half-human beings or whatever he saw.
	No, thank you.
	That's not going to work.
	So, you're right.
	It's the only hope.
	Yeah, and if anyone in Montana, North Dakota, the Great Lakes, or other areas along the U.S.-Canadian border who hear Greenland, ...have had any similar incidents occur on their ranches or farms or know anyone who has, I would really appreciate them contacting me, if possible, by mail at Post Office Box 538 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
	And the zip code is 19006.
	Again, that's Post Office Box 538.
	In Huntington Valley, Pennsylvania, zip code 19006.
	And Art, for information about books and videos now, I have a toll free 800 number, and that is 800-707-9993.
	and that is 800-707-9993.
	Again, that's 800-707-9993 for information about...
	All right, one more number, then we've got to go.
	Do you want to give out your fax number?
	Yeah, thanks.
	It's area code 2-1-5-4-9-1-9-8-4-2.
	And I will look forward for information.
	We got interrupted there at the end.
	Give it again, please.
	2-1-5-4-9-1-9- And 9842.
	Yeah, we're getting interrupted.
	I think you're getting a call.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	Very good.
	Well, we'll get it on again before the end of the program.
	Linda.
	I'm interested in information on all fronts, from the human rights, to mutilations, crop circles, abductions, all of the mystery.
	All right.
	Very good.
	Thank you, Linda Howell.
	Look forward to talking to you next week.
	Again, I suppose, I hope, Philadelphia.
	Yes, I will be here.
	All right.
	Alright, talk to you then.
	This hour of art film was recorded for rebroadcast at this time.
	Please do not call.
	From the Kingdom of Nine, you're hearing Greenland with Art Bell.
	To participate in the program, call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
	1-800-618-8255.
	First-time callers, area code 702-727-1222, or the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
	This is the CBC Radio Network.
	Oh, it certainly is, and the east of the Rockies line is the only one they're not giving.
	It is 1-800-825-5033.
	1-800-825-5033.
	Now, uh, 0-9.
	Now I'm gonna read you the back of Nano Dreams.
	Uh, this is, um, Elton's book.
	Listen to this and let your hair stand on end.
	Nano Dreams.
	Zero nine now. I'm going to read you the back of nano dreams. This is
	Elton's book Listen to this and let your hair stand on end
	nano dreams Welcome to the world of the micro miniaturized future where
	all things are possible But only human wisdom stands between us
	unthinkable disaster.
	you NanoDreams.
	Virus-sized self that can fabricate a spaceship from seawater, Eliminate disease, reverse aging, and increase human intelligence.
	But, devices that can create anything from anything, and are too small to detect, are of necessity, of course, a two-edged sword.
	So, in your future, imagine nano-nightmares.
	Microscopic assassins that self-replicate like a plague as they skip from body to body, Searching for that one special victim or racial type.
	Devices that are physically, that physically invade high security computers and hack them into little data bits.
	Nanomachines that go anywhere, do anything, and have no mercy.
	Pretty chilling stuff, huh?
	Elton Elliot.
	He is a graduate of Willamette University, class of 1980, lives in Kaiser, Oregon, with an ever-expanding family of computers.
	He is many, many times published.
	His stories have been nominated for the Nebula Award.
	Dr. Gregory Benford in the science column of In the May 1995 issue of the magazine of fantasy and science fiction called his anthology, Nano Dreams, a good example of firm thinking.
	We'll find out what he's published as we go to him now from, where is this?
	In Oregon?
	Give us the name of your city again.
	I may have slaughtered it, Elton.
	Where are you?
	Kaiser.
	Kaiser, okay.
	Well, I got it all right.
	Kaiser, yep.
	Good to have you on the program.
	Good to be speaking with you this evening.
	I wanted to congratulate you first on your award.
	Oh, thank you.
	I'm many, many, many a times driving long distances.
	Late at night, I have listened to your show.
	Yes, The Keeper of the Night, I guess we are.
	Yes, absolutely.
	Well, it's kept me from falling asleep.
	It's done that for me, too.
	So far, anyway.
	All right.
	I thought the back of your book did a good job of explaining what it can be on the plus side and what it can be on the negative side.
	So why don't you go ahead and sort of lay this out or expand on what is on the back of your book here.
	What is nanotechnology?
	For those who are new to it, I guess we better begin at the beginning.
	I will begin at the beginning, and what I'm going to do is I'm going to read a direct quote from an author by the name of Eric Drexler.
	He's not just an author, he's also a scientist.
	He was awarded the world's first PhD, as a matter of fact, in nanotechnology from MIT.
	He is the person who coined the term nanotechnology.
	He also writes the introduction to nanodrains.
	And his definition in his groundbreaking book, Indians of Creation, his definition, technology based on the manipulation of individual atoms and molecules to build structures to complex atomic specifications.
	And how I would describe that for lay people in the audience would be as follows.
	Up until now, our technology has essentially been bulk technology.
	To create the telephone that I'm talking to you on, we take various types of plastics, various types of metals, other things, we heat them, we chop them, we combine them together, and we create objects of use.
	Telephones, VCRs, televisions, what have you.
	Our houses, our clothes, everything is done via bulk technology.
	We take something large and we chip away at it.
	Nature doesn't operate that way.
	We ourselves are born from a program.
	And when can we expect it back on the radio?
	Soon.
	And what he's up to is correlating data on Hale-Bopp, the comet, and of course we're going to talk to him as well about a whole bunch of other things, including these new photographs we've got, and the photographs and the alien autopsy, so there's a lot for Mr. Hoagland to comment on, and the answer is soon.
	Fantastic.
	I've got a quick question.
	Is there a way to monitor what he's doing over the internet?
	I've found some articles that have been... You might try a web browse search on the name Hoagland.
	Richard Hoagland.
	See what you can find.
	That's all I can suggest.
	Okay.
	One quick question.
	I'll let you go.
	Do you understand hyperdimensional physics?
	Only vaguely.
	I've had Richard explain it to me a number of times.
	And I can't tell you that I fully grasped it.
	I've got sort of an outline of an idea of what he's talking about, but fully, no.
	Yeah, the last time we had him on the air, he spent a lot of time discussing his problems that he's having with our government and trying to get information and trying to get things done, but he didn't spend a whole lot of time discussing hyperdimensional physics and I was just hoping that next time he would.
	Well, we'll see what we can do.
	Whether he can bring it down to, it's very difficult to bring it down A very complex subject to the level that a relative layman can understand.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, Art.
	I was wondering when Mr. Schell, you said you were going to get him back on the air to interview him again after you talked to the photographer?
	That is correct, yes.
	Is he going to do a recording of his interview audio?
	And possibly let you play it back on the air for us?
	Or is he just gonna relay the information?
	Oh, no, no, no.
	We'll have him on as a guest.
	Sir?
	We will have him on as a guest.
	No, as far as the audio part of his interview with the photographer.
	Oh, that I can't answer.
	It depends on what he gets, sir.
	I have no way of knowing.
	He will talk to the photographer and either Give us second hand or give us access to the photographer or give us a recorded interview from the photographer and I have no way of knowing what he's going to do.
	These pictures you say you received from this anonymous contributor, does the pictures by chance show the part that Mr. Shell was talking about that was in these other films?
	The portion that shows the communication receiver?
	Yes.
	Are you referring to the box?
	Yeah, the box with the imprint for the control panel using six fingers.
	No, he mentioned that there was like a communication satellite or something that was separate from the ship that was supposed to be attached to the ship.
	Yeah, no, I have nothing of that sort.
	What I have is what I described, sir.
	I have photographs of the wreckage.
	Oh, uh-huh.
	Uh-huh.
	Yes, indeed.
	All right, thank you very much for the call.
	And again, because this is so fresh and so immediate, I want to take a second out to tell you, as soon as I'm off the air, and I'm about to be off the air, I'm going to quickly arrange to send these photographs to the bulletin board, and John Byron, he is going to get them up there immediately for you.
	My guess is, this process will take about 30 minutes.
	The phone number for our bulletin board, and you can begin calling about 30 minutes from now, is 702-727-1709, if you have a computer.
	Now, if you would like to subscribe to our newsletter, or get a copy of the incredible, incredible Bob Schell interview, you can call right now.
	800-917-4278.
	As you say, from bulk, to get something smaller and functional, a machine, nanotechnology, starts at the bottom, at the molecular level, and builds up.
	And builds up.
	Kind of like, sort of like nature.
	Exactly.
	We may not do it exactly the way that nature does it, but we know that molecular technology, which is really what this is, another term for it, molecular nanotechnology, we know that it works because nature already does it.
	That's a key factor.
	That's one of the things that a lot of people miss when they first hear about this technology.
	Therefore, once you get accustomed to the notion of shall we say, operating from a program.
	For instance, you could take...
	Let's talk about a house.
	All right.
	Our houses today are remarkably inefficient.
	I mean, they're nice caves.
	They protect us from the elements, but at tremendous cost.
	How about the notion of smart bricks?
	Okay.
	The notion of bricks pre-programmed, for instance, to in the summertime, in the coolness of the evening, to let the cool air in, to open their pores, in the middle of the day when it's hot, to close their pores.
	Wow.
	Period.
	Wow, that's incredible.
	In other words... Well, alright, let me try to understand.
	And I'll give credit to Dr. Arnold Andrews at Sandia National Laboratories who All right, smart bricks.
	Let's explore the notion for a second.
	Let's say we had a smart brick.
	What have we got on our hands here?
	Do we have a machine or do we have some kind of living organism?
	We have something.
	We're going to have to come up with a new term.
	It's not specifically a living organism.
	It is a little different than a machine.
	I would say it's the difference between hardware and software.
	Hardware once again is bulk technology, but a software program in a computer is actually, as far as I'm concerned, the first beginnings of the notion of molecular technology happened with computer software.
	You're stretching my mind.
	Let's say with a brick.
	In other words, how is the brick programmed or different from a normal brick?
	Unit's ability to let air through?
	The brick would be designed with computers.
	Onboard computers inside.
	Very, very tiny, very small molecular computers.
	And it just basically does it to any preset temperature.
	And you can control this by just essentially by voice augmentation.
	You can just call out, let's say for instance, that it's a beautiful sunset and you want to see it from every area of your house.
	Suddenly those smart bricks are now transparent.
	Oh my.
	Elton, how far away from such technology do you think we might be?
	A saying which has been credited to a gentleman by the name of Roger Arnold, who I've never met, but I've heard it's been credited to him.
	He said, if we're lucky, we'll have it in 30 years.
	If we're unlucky, we'll have it in 10.
	That's a way to put it, all right.
	And that, of course, introduces us to the negative side of the possibility of nanotechnology.
	But before we go to the negative side, here's a fact.
	I've got a lot of people.
	This is from all the way up on Kodiak Island, Alaska.
	Okay.
	And it's a question for you.
	Will nanotechnology be able to constantly repair our bodies?
	If so, how soon can I expect to have the body of a 20-year-old again?
	No, wait, there's more.
	Overpopulation and space travel are my concerns if this technology can indefinitely extend human life.
	We'll have to get off the rock, this rock, or stop having children until we can extend life.
	That would change everything.
	I just hope I live to see it.
	If I do, we might run into each other a thousand years from now on some other planet and talk about old times.
	That's from Gary and Kodiak.
	Well, Gary, you might very well be correct.
	We might indeed do that a thousand years from now.
	That would be certainly a fond wish of mine.
	And you're also correct that That when you have longevity, you also change from a culture, and this is crucial, you change from a culture of death, which is what our culture is today.
	The pension funds, insurance companies, they're all based on death.
	True.
	Nanotechnology is going to change our culture.
	It will be a culture based on life.
	And yes, indeed, one of the things they are talking about are very, very small machines inside the human body, going through the human body.
	I don't know if these are things that are permanently in there or if you take an occasional
	drink say for instance and put them in.
	But you can imagine very, very, very small, tiny molecular machines with an on-board computer
	that say use the glucose and the bloodstream for an energy supply that use a flagellum
	like a bacteria to motor through the body.
	They're very small so the smallest capillary that you have in your body to these machines
	is like a 128 lane freeway.
	And they go through and they check for anything that shouldn't be there.
	Let me back up a little bit.
	In other words, from the moment we are born, we are dying.
	Absolutely.
	But nanotechnology might put us in a constant state of repair, in other words.
	Exactly.
	It will put us in a constant state of repair and this will change us.
	This is one of the key things about nanotechnology that a lot of people don't have the guts to talk about.
	And I'm going to talk about it tonight.
	That is, that nanotechnology will change human beings.
	Alright, on that note, hold on, we'll come right back to you.
	If you have not been hooked yet, then you are not hookable and should go away and listen to a music program someplace.
	Elton T. Elliott, back in a moment.
	Let's see if I've got this right.
	If we're lucky, we'll have nanotechnology in 30 or 40 years.
	If we're unlucky, we'll have it in ten years.
	Now, Elton, is it ahead of us?
	And if it is, how dangerous is it?
	I would maintain that it's extremely dangerous.
	Because anything that offers you these type of possibilities is going to have negative consequences that will be equally as large.
	Do we have any way of knowing, this is just a shot in the dark question, Elton, but do we have any way of knowing really what the state of the art is right now?
	In other words, I'm sure that if Elton T. Elliott can come on here and talk about it, our government, other governments, are way deep into it, far into it, and secretly so.
	Actually, what's really fascinating about this technology is how it snuck up on everybody, or at least the possibilities of this technology.
	The one key thing about nanotechnology is that it isn't science.
	It's engineering.
	The difference is that it's engineering in the sense that it breaks no physical law.
	It's just a matter of learning how to do it, as opposed to, say, discovering a whole new scientific theory.
	Because of that, oftentimes it is considered Oftentimes, it's simply dismissed by engineers, because after all, they deal with things that they can build.
	And to a certain extent, until recently, in the scientific community, it received the same type of dismissal.
	But that has changed in the 1990s.
	As a matter of fact, toward the end of the Bush administration, Dr. Drexler briefed The CIA, he briefed all sorts of top government agencies about this, and indeed there were several major generals that were stunned by the military implications and stunned by the fact that nobody knew anything about it.
	This is something where the scientists and the thinkers have really been ahead of, or in this case, Eric Drexler and people like him.
	Theoretical engineers have really been ahead of everybody, including, I might add, the science fiction writers.
	Well, except that, of course, we have no way of knowing what's going on in secret underground labs.
	That's true.
	That's true.
	We can't say certain things.
	We do know that there were, I mean, I know, for instance, the scientists at Boeing were considering stuff like this back in the early 1980s, which they called cellular automata.
	I know that they Japanese right now are spending $200 million a year on nanometer scale types of scientific efforts.
	In the case of Germany, in Europe, I've heard that it's around $100 million a year.
	Outside of Tokyo in Japan, there's a 40-story tall building that That is devoted to nothing but nanotech research.
	So I know foreign governments are doing it, and doing it almost in a crash program.
	And as for the United States, it looks like in this case, I think we're behind the curve.
	The nano curve?
	Behind the nano curve.
	I would hope it's being done.
	The key thing is, I am concerned about this technology being developed secretly.
	I'm very concerned about that.
	Exactly.
	Well, I would be too.
	This technology should be developed out in the open, and we should have free information exchange and what have you.
	I will say right now... But it's not going to happen.
	I mean, that ignores all of human history, including the atomic bomb.
	Oh, absolutely.
	Absolutely it does, although there are some things that are out in the open.
	When Drexler and the people that first talked about nanotechnology chatted about it, they presumed that we would manipulate natural atoms.
	Well, engineers at AT&T have developed artificial atoms.
	Just recently, major breakthroughs have been made in certain types of mathematical puzzles using DNA computers.
	You simply assign certain numbers to strands of DNA and run it through a DNA synthesizer and sequencer and come out with the answer.
	Todd, that's frightening.
	And you can do it a lot faster than you can, say, through a normal computer.
	At the same time, Intel has just sold to Sandia National Laboratories the first computer capable of making teraflop operations, which is a trillion calculations per second.
	A trillion?
	A trillion.
	A trillion.
	This has been out in the press.
	This has made the national news.
	It's been in New York Times.
	They're using this to model nuclear explosions.
	Oh, great.
	On computers.
	Figures.
	See, figures.
	Instead of modeling a cure for cancer or the way cancer cells replicate, we've got to model... We get a computer that fast and we're modeling nuclear explosions.
	And that makes my point perfectly.
	We're at the top of the hour.
	Elton, sit back, relax.
	You've got about five or six minutes or so.
	And we'll be right back to you.
	You're listening to Dreamland from the high desert.
	God, this is fascinating.
	We'll be right back.
	Welcome to the world of music.
	So very substantial.
	And by the way, it's got a lot of photographs that relate to this program.
	Photographs, for example, from Linda Howe of Crop Circles, Complex Crop Circles, that sort of thing.
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	I cover Dreamland.
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	It's the story of my life.
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	Now is that unique stuff or what?
	Back now to our guest, Elton Elliott.
	Uh, Elton, is there a T in the middle of your name?
	Yes, there is.
	There is?
	Okay, well, I have that right.
	I don't know where I got it from.
	Yeah, but I go by Elton, Elliot.
	Alright, good.
	Um, you mentioned a computer right now, one that exists now.
	Actually, one that's being built.
	The government is paying Intel $25 million to build it.
	That will compute a trillion Operations per second.
	What it is, actually, is using the new Pentium Pro chip.
	And it's going to simply take and align around 10,000 of these chips in a parallel processing alignment.
	Elton, at some point there or in the future, do you consider it possible that we will, in effect, create It may be possible to create something like that.
	The reason why I hesitate is because I listened to Mr. Osman talking last week and some of the comments the viewers made about life and how special it is and the question is can we create life If you mean, could we create something that is small on the order of a virus or a bacteria?
	I don't mean that.
	You don't mean that?
	No.
	You mean something that's self-aware.
	Well, let's get into it this way.
	I'm going to ask you the same question I asked him.
	As processing gets faster, storage gets more massive, faster and faster and faster and faster we go.
	At some point, is it not likely that We will create something that is creative.
	That's the only way I can put it.
	Creative.
	And then perhaps aware.
	The question is, I think there are at least two different ways to go.
	And I suspect human beings being human beings will use both.
	I think we'll probably create what would be termed artificial intelligences.
	There's been a lot of effort on that in computers anyway.
	At the same time, we're going to do something else.
	We're going to add intellectually and otherwise physically augment ourselves.
	This is very, very important.
	We are the last generation that will be recognizably human.
	Oh my.
	Oh yes.
	Really?
	If nanotechnology happens, we will be the last.
	Atom has been designed by scientists at AT&T and I believe it's being held together, if I'm not mistaken, by an electronic,
	I mean electromagnetic bottle.
	And...
	And the atom in question Okay, I'm quoting now from Ed Regis' book, Nano.
	The item in question was actually an empty space within a gallium arsenide crystal, to which electrons could be moved one at a time by the application of a light magnetic pulse.
	So that's the answer.
	Oh my.
	Alright, back to the phone lines.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Elton Elliott.
	Where are you, please?
	St.
	Louis.
	Could an implanted computer chip change our thought processes and become politically correct like the government would like us all to be?
	That's an extremely good question and an extremely scary piece of speculation.
	I certainly hope not.
	I will say, however, that what fascinates me is the crudity Maybe we're the ones that are going to make all the developments.
	We're the ones that are going to spread from this planet to others.
	technology how crude they are compared to nanotech.
	I mean, you know, if this is an advanced alien civilization, it seems like they've had a
	long time to come up with something better than what we've seen.
	Maybe we're the ones that are going to make all the developments.
	We're the ones that are going to spread from this planet to others.
	Maybe we are going to be the masters of the universe.
	That's maybe as scary as alien intervention, isn't it?
	Well, it is because I have this... I've always had this dark thought that whoever has the power will enslave.
	And, again, I'm sorry to say all of human history is on my side.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Elton Elliott.
	Where are you calling from, please?
	I'm calling from Salem, Oregon.
	Salem, alright.
	Yep.
	What's your question?
	I have... Well, first of all, turn your radio off.
	Yes, sir.
	All right, go ahead.
	All right, I'd like to talk to Alton Elliott.
	Yes, go ahead, sir.
	Curious, you know, do you consider this a devolution or evolution of humanity?
	Good question.
	Well, that's a very good question.
	A lot of it's going to depend upon what we do with this technology, okay?
	I think anything like this, like I said, this powerful, has the chance to be used for either good gain or good gain, okay?
	I would say right now that change is a very unsettling thing.
	The older you get in life, the more that the things you remember as a child are comforting to you.
	Nanotechnology promises radical change and change that could happen on the order of not years, but days, minutes, hours.
	That's the thing I'm, that's the thing I'm really the most worried about.
	Alright, East of the Rockies, we don't have a lot of time, if you have a quick question, where are you calling from please?
	Minneapolis, Minnesota, and I'd like to know if it isn't abused, could it be a cure for AIDS if it isn't abused, the technology?
	Alright, thank you.
	AIDS, you mentioned AIDS, we talked about AIDS.
	Absolutely.
	There's a pretty direct, immediate application for nanotechnology with regard to AIDS.
	With regard to AIDS, absolutely.
	I would think that should be one of the major areas of research once we come up with an effective molecular assembly breakthrough.
	It would be simply to go through and to determine where that virus is in the body, what are the damaging effects it's doing on the cells, and simply stop that process.
	This is one of the areas where the Human Genome Project is going to help, because it's going to give us a genetic blueprint of the body.
	I understand the AIDS virus manages to attach itself almost in an incredibly perfect manner to the cells that it destroys.
	It's really suspicious, isn't it?
	Yeah, well it is.
	And nanotechnology, one could imagine, Could step right into the middle of that process.
	Absolutely.
	All right.
	Well, this is really something.
	Elton, stand by.
	We're headed again toward the top of the hour.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is a program called Dreamland.
	Dealing with things like you're hearing this evening.
	That's why we're here.
	Happy to be here.
	So from the high desert, don't go away.
	We'll be right back.
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	The nanotechnology makes one wonder if there's going to come a day when mankind will no longer
	work or toil.
	It really does.
	That's going to be very, very interesting.
	The impact it's going to have on money, on what the basis for money is.
	I simply wouldn't.
	I simply wouldn't know how to answer that question.
	Our entire existence will be modified.
	In other words, with nanotechnology comes essentially replication.
	And that's what I was saying when I launched into that commercial.
	Elton, isn't it possible that this would produce a world of people at the extreme who would have nothing to do physically or work to do
	physically.
	They would simply, you know, it's the horn o' the plundy.
	I think that it's very possible that nanotechnology could bring about a world
	where you don't define yourself by work.
	And there are some people who may sit back and become lazy and do nothing
	and become unproductive.
	However, there are going to be plenty of people who are going to be phenomenally creative.
	There are going to be plenty of people who are going to want to essentially go into space.
	One of the things you can do with nanotechnology is you can create world books.
	Well, the entire definition of productivity would likely change, wouldn't it?
	Absolutely, absolutely.
	By productivity I mean things which would be creative.
	New designs of nanotech itself, other types of creativity.
	I think creativity is going to last.
	I think that the technology this is going to give us in terms of space flight, which isn't something we've talked about much tonight.
	No, and let's get to that in just one second.
	I do want to welcome again, because I think they joined in the third hour, KSYG and Little Rock, Arkansas.
	If you're just catching us, this is the third of three hours.
	And to get the whole show, you'd want to give your station there in Little Rock a call.
	Just one joining Little Rock, joining 150 other affiliates.
	This is Dreamland.
	It is a program dedicated to discussions about things that, as I say in my little piece at the beginning of the program, are not so easily or neatly put in a box.
	And nanotechnology definitely is in that category.
	All I can tell you is, uh, let your mind rest, listen carefully, and, uh, open up and receive what we're sending, because this is very important stuff.
	You don't have to put up with it.
	What am I talking about?
	Hard, foul water.
	That's right.
	Hard water gets into everything, fouls it up.
	You know what I mean?
	The white, scaly stuff?
	The statement.
	Our society, the way we see it, is so dysfunctional as it is.
	We are over One with information.
	Now comes nanoscience.
	I mean, we're challenging creation and I have a feeling we're going to lose sick time.
	Now, Elliot, I'm going to throw you something.
	You may reject it or catch it.
	For over 40 years now, abductees and various key people have taken space flights with what we call UFOs.
	It has been reported from many sources that's global wide that the hull of the spacecraft totally become transparent.
	Totally invisible.
	Now, remember the smart bricks with the sunset?
	It looks like E.T.
	is already working with nanoscience.
	All right.
	Well, there you are.
	Yes, that's a good point he makes.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	If, you know, I mean, I don't know.
	I don't profess to know and profess to understand that, you know, the UFO phenomenon one way or the other.
	But if indeed such things are reporting, if such things have happened, then maybe that is indeed possible.
	I would think that any advanced alien civilization would have Would have nanotechnology or nanotechnological capabilities.
	I really like the way you explained it in the beginning.
	Mankind for all these years has been taking big things and in effect whittling them down to make functional smaller machines that work.
	Big to small.
	Nanotechnology is the exact reverse you say.
	Small to big.
	You take the molecular level and you build to big.
	It's creation and that's what That's, I guess, what freaks me out.
	To me, it smells like, tastes like, looks like creation.
	Well, one of the things, and if you talk about big things, one of the things that you could make with nanotechnology ultimately is, let's say, What I would term a large worldlet, which would be say something the size of North America.
	you go out under the asteroid belt, whether the one between Mars and Jupiter, the one
	between Jupiter and Saturn, and take several of the asteroids and essentially, with a lot
	of nanomachines, and create a world that's something the size of North America, make
	it mobile with capabilities of taking large magnetic bottles with certain types of mass
	and forcing it down, you might be able to create an artificial sun, and then, you know,
	essentially travel places. That's one of the things that, one of the things that the human
	This is the last generation of human beings as we know them now.
	particularly when you go from a culture of death to a culture of life.
	You have a lot of people.
	Elton, you said earlier, and maybe some late audience joined, do you really believe this?
	This is the last generation of human beings as we know them now.
	Absolutely.
	The last generation.
	The last generation of human, the way I put it, was the last generation that will be recognizably human.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Elton Elliott.
	Hello.
	Good evening.
	I've just about given up getting any sleep on Sunday night.
	Where are you?
	Madison, Wisconsin.
	All right.
	I want to speak directly to what I think is the heart of the matter here, consciousness.
	Yes.
	Now, a computer stores data in the binary code on a disk or on a hard drive or whatever, and you're talking about downloading information from a human brain, and what I'm missing here is, where has it ever been proven that information is stored in the brain in hard form like that?
	Well, this is exactly what I'm concerned about.
	This is exactly my concern.
	This is exactly my concern when I said that a photograph of a sunset is not a sunset, it's an image of something.
	And absolutely, our minds don't necessarily operate on on-off switches.
	And of course, on the other hand, with the new work in DNA computers, and if you really want to look at it, which don't operate on on-off, but operate off of the four amino acid bases that's in DNA, Um, if you look at DNA, DNA is, in a sense, the computer that runs our bodies.
	Well, it runs our bodies when it runs a frog's body.
	But wait a minute, sir.
	Wait a minute.
	Is not DNA, or can not DNA, uh, in a switch manner, yes-no manner, be turned on and off?
	Okay, in terms of action-reaction, yes.
	I mean, if you touch a frog in the right place, it jumps.
	Its DNA tells it to jump when it's stimulated.
	I think we're getting right to the heart of what the difference is between mankind and the rest of the life forms on this planet.
	I would say that like I said, I've never been sanguine about the notion of just downloading somebody's mind into a machine, so I'd agree with the caller that there are probably concerns that he holds that are valid.
	Well, the only thing I would offer is that a lot of times the only thing that prevents up or downloading is the right interface.
	Well, that's also a very interesting point.
	This entire thing, when you talk about creating life, one of the concerns that I have, and I come from a background where my parents were very, very Christian.
	I come from a very strong Christian background.
	Then you must be challenged by just all over the place.
	I am challenged all over the place by this.
	Yes, indeed I am.
	Absolutely.
	And I would say for those out there who are Christians, you know, if considering what I've said about this is the last generation of humans that are going to be recognized, the last generation that's going to be recognizably human, then it kind of puts a timetable for the second advent, if you believe that.
	Or some sort of divine intervention.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Eldon Elliott.
	Hello.
	Hi, Eric.
	I'm Dreamland.
	This is Owen in Princeton, Minnesota.
	Hi, Owen.
	It seems to me that if this technology is really for real, then we'll have enormous population increase.
	Am I right in my thinking there?
	All right.
	And if I am, then Don't you think that throughout history, good and evil have kind of evened out?
	And if we have sudden population increases, don't you think that we would have many cataclysmic events?
	No.
	No, absolutely not.
	Because that's along the notions that life is limited to the earth.
	And it's manifestly not.
	I mean, if not life, certainly at least living space.
	I think you could very easily foresee Could it be a great jump from the smart brick to the... Smart spaceship?
	develops, various human beings that want to go elsewhere in the universe, whether, you
	know, for the same reason that the pilgrims and others went to America, you could have
	people, I mean you could see an entire sphere, a globe of humanity spreading outward into
	the galaxy.
	Could it be a great jump from the smart brick to the...
	Smart spaceship?
	The spaceship created from seawater?
	No, absolutely not.
	Um, I think that, uh, I think one of the things I, one of the things that I've written about is nanovascular spacecraft.
	And these are... Explain it.
	Okay, well, these are, these are spacecraft that essentially have, that essentially are, are, um, are self-repairing.
	I mean, there was kind of a notion of this, a rather crude notion of this in Star Trek, uh, with a, with a, a race of robots called, uh, the Borg, or half robot, half organic.
	And in this case though, in this case it's far more subtle, but it would be something that would essentially be self-repairing, so that when you go in space at speeds near the speed of light, I mean, very, very, very small particle, I mean, very, very small pieces of matter at near the speed of light can do tremendous damage to any craft.
	So consequently, you're going to have to have capabilities of repairing yourself.
	You're going to have to have capabilities of generating electromagnetic fields and all these sorts of things if you're going to travel in space in a safe fashion.
	The future version of the self-sealing tire.
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	Sure.
	Elton, hold on.
	We'll be right back to you.
	It's bottom of the hour break.
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	Don't go changing, you're right where you should be. Talk 102.
	First, win the battle for understanding. In other words, if we get to the technology before we win the battle for
	honesty and morality, we're dead meat.
	Well, boy, I'll tell you something. This is one of the reasons why Eric Drexler, when he first came up with these
	notions back in the early 70s, I mean, he actually tried, I mean, 20 years ago, he came up
	with some of these ideas.
	He actually sat on them for a while until it was obvious that other people began to develop some of this stuff, and then he tried to get out in front.
	Well, I'm thinking about one right now, and I want to repeat it.
	It was earlier in the program.
	Foresight Institute and others to bring some of these policy issues to the forefront.
	The way that we begin thinking about moral issues is to begin thinking about them.
	Alright, well I'm thinking about one right now and I want to repeat it.
	It was earlier in the program.
	You said, we now have, or are about to have, a computer that computes at a trillion decisions
	Right, uh, right, exactly, a teraflop.
	And now, are we using this to cure cancer?
	Are we using it to better mankind?
	No.
	Uh, what you told me was, we're using this to simulate nuclear explosions.
	Um, yes, absolutely, according to, according to articles in the New York Times and the Portland Oregonian, uh, precisely because the computer is being designed at Intel's headquarters up here in Oregon, not too far from where I live.
	I think it's really fascinating that a company as wealthy as Intel.
	Can't they do their own R&D?
	corporate well i'm not blaming in my mind is i'm just saying
	my i understand that but but but can't they do their own rd where they have to take it from
	the american taxpayers
	i mean i don't know because that's probably what the government's on them
	Oh, yeah, I know.
	I know that exactly.
	I know that's exactly what they're doing.
	My comment, look, it's more of a general comment on humanity and how ready we are for this technology.
	That we would use it to model nuclear detonations.
	Yes.
	Well, I'll tell you something.
	The original mission of Sandia, of course, was to Essentially monitor nuclear weapons.
	Yes.
	Now, the question is, that may be one of the things you're going to do with it.
	They may also do other things with it.
	That'd be nice, but it worries me that that was their first choice.
	Was there justification?
	Well, that's basically the justification for their existence as a laboratory.
	Yeah, I'm sure that's where the money comes from.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Elton Elliott.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Jim coming from Portland, Oregon.
	Yes, Jim.
	I'd like to say to this man that nanotechnologies are much ado about nothing.
	Well, I guess that's just a little nano-humor, right?
	For instance, in the biotechnology field, before nanotechnology could do anything, they had to figure out how the cell works in the first place.
	And they're no closer to doing that now than they were ten years ago.
	Comments, Elton?
	Well, once again, I think that I think we're a lot further along.
	Obviously, if what you're saying is correct and it's much ado about very little, then fine.
	That doesn't particularly bother me in some ways.
	In some ways, it would be a relief.
	It would be comforting.
	I agree.
	Oh, yeah.
	And I utterly, utterly disagree with the last caller.
	He's wrong.
	I think he's wishing and hoping he's not looking at reality.
	I think that's absolutely the case.
	That's why those of us who have watched this field, and we've seen everything that's leading toward this.
	One of the things we're talking about is taking a scanning tunneling microscope, which is what IBM used to spell out atomically their name in that experiment they did a couple years ago.
	Um, and they spelled it out with 35 individual xenon atoms.
	And they used a scanning tunneling microscope.
	Well, since they've... I mean, there's talk about putting, you know, about essentially miniaturizing STMs, putting a whole bunch of them on a... What are STMs?
	A scanning tunneling microscope.
	Oh, thank you.
	Okay, and miniaturizing STMs, putting a whole bunch of them on a chip.
	Now, if you've got a whole bunch of those things able to manipulate individual atoms, if, on the other hand, and if at the same time you have a computer Which is capable of doing a trillion operations per second.
	Okay?
	Then you immediately have some phenomenal capabilities right there by just meeting those two.
	And the other thing is that this computer technology, in terms of it as a driving force for nanotech, I mean, they're getting a trillion operations per second just by putting 10,000 of these computers in parallel.
	What happens if you put a million of them together?
	On the wall card line, you're on the air with Elton Elliott.
	Hi.
	Hi, ding-dong, it's Mr. Bell.
	It's Pete in Portland.
	Hello, Elliott.
	Hello.
	Yeah, like the man was saying, we want to learn about the cell.
	We can build little nanobots, like using like Isaac Asimov's Fantastic Voyage, and put them inside the cell to monitor exactly what is going on, when, and how, and have them communicate with a teraflop computer outside.
	Absolutely, absolutely.
	It's one of the areas It's a perfect application for that and virtual reality to help model some of it.
	Yeah, you know, I really almost wish that I believed as that one somewhat nano-critical caller of a few moments ago believed.
	I think that those who presently are into computers and have even some basic understanding of what's being done right now with the current technology, the Pentium chip.
	Those people are able then to make the leap more easily and understand what it is you're talking about and the unavoidable reality of it, I think.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Elton Elliott.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Great program.
	Thank you.
	I was wondering if you guys saw the movie Zardoz in terms of immortality.
	I've not.
	Where are you, please?
	St.
	Louis.
	Have you seen it?
	Sean Connery was a movie starring Sean Connery back in the early 70s and I've seen parts of it.
	Well anyway, the people wanted to die because they were so bored.
	Now I'm going to give you a best scenario and a worst scenario if it was totally beneficial.
	Just think of things like silicone breast implants and what Penicillin has done to create those super viruses in terms of foresight.
	That's the most beneficial government.
	In terms of the worst, which we see going on today, look at how they purport things like abortion, such like that.
	And they're not going to be trying to increase populations.
	What they'd be trying to do is decrease populations.
	All right, well... You see, in terms of the media, is trying to cause strife.
	All right, sir.
	Thank you.
	You know, this is part of the... Let's look at it on a theoretical basis.
	This is part of the culture of death.
	uh... which which which we have which we have in our society
	uh... nanotechnology will directly radically confront that but on the other hand if you want to talk about about
	about implants and physical changes and whatever what do you think the fashion minded will do i mean today
	they're piercing themselves all over the place they're putting
	tattoos everywhere scarifying themselves
	uh... what will they do with nanotechnology well today's weapon uh...
	is still penicillin or some variant of penicillin
	is it not possible we're always in a fight with viruses new viruses
	it seems like uh... newer ones are coming along they're penicillin resistant batter and batter and batter uh... nanotechnology
	might be the eventual uh...
	Ultimate tool with regard to fighting them, mightn't it?
	Oh, absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	Positively.
	And that's I mean, because these machines are going to be operating on literally on those on those levels, if not smaller.
	And so consequently, it it I mean, remember for somebody to one time talk and said, well, how, you know, how are you going to necessarily lubricate some of these machines?
	Because after all, for them, a dollop of oil is an ocean.
	Yes.
	What is the answer?
	Well, the answer is that they're talking about phased-array diamond structures, diamond-like structures, so that you structure them very, very precisely in very hard patterns so that they simply flow along.
	They actually flow and they are their own lubricant, the very precise nature of them.
	uh... is lubricant concepts that's the only it is my guest he'll be right back
	now you have all news world report a little name change from you for facts
	you have all news world reports please be very polite with them
	that's important for team holding in chemistry uh... in physics of further majorization of things like incoming
	microscope atomic force microscope held not almost be one of that back
	uh... in the worst and buggy days uh... they said machine that works as well
	as a horse ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
	well it is exactly in the end of the fact of the matter is is it is it for
	is it for all these people who who you know are are
	basically critics of this all i can feel like in faith is
	because they don't acknowledge you mimics nature there is a certain inevitability to it
	and and uh... i know You know, it just simply ups the ante for all of us.
	It ups the ante for all of us from a moral point of view, from a political point of view.
	I mean, you asked me just a broad question about political correctness.
	Fly, Elliot!
	I'm appalled by political correctness.
	Fly, Elliot!
	If man had been meant to fly, he'd have been given little wings he could flap, just like the birds.
	Man will never fly, Elliot.
	Never.
	Never fly.
	Nope.
	He's good.
	So there you are.
	Elton, we're at the end of the time.
	The guy in Princeton's right.
	We don't have enough time.
	It has been a great pleasure.
	Thank you.
	And we will have you back, I guarantee, and we will talk more about this.
	I would love to be back.
	Elton, thank you.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	That's Elton Elliott.
	Why, if man had been meant to fly, he'd been given wings.
	You all know that out there, don't you?
	From the high desert, that is about it.
	If you would like a copy of this very important pro... Today, you need... Nevertheless, would you explain that term, the goo?
	The gray goo?
	It's the notion that you create a... that a machine accidentally runs amok, and it essentially takes, oh, let's say, all carbon-based life forms, strips them down to their essential atoms, and just turns out goo.
	So, all of humanity... No, the biosphere of the planet.
	Even worse.
	I mean, I mean, you could do it with oxygen, you could do it with hydrogen, or what have you.
	I mean, you know, that's the danger in terms of, see, we don't need to create something like Terminator 2, okay?
	I mean, the two creatures in there, we don't have to create anything like a robot or something, you just create small invisible machines that disassemble your enemies atom by atom, molecule by molecule.
	Alright, somebody sent a fax here, it says, Please comment on this.
	Reference 1986, a book apparently called Engines of Creation.
	Yes, that's Eric Drexler's book.
	That's the book that I got the definition of nanotechnology.
	That it would be possible to, in effect, create nanotechnology machines that would, quote, lobotomize, end quote, entire populations.
	I mean, I think disassemble is a little more dangerous even than lobotomize.
	I mean, lobotomize is obviously horrific as well.
	Yeah, sure.
	I mean, you could do that.
	On the other hand, though, on the other hand, the technologies that are working on this are developing something called active shields.
	Remember, if you study military history, you know that for every offensive advance, there is eventually a concurrent catch-up by the defense.
	Yes.
	And active shields would be ways of small molecular machines that would simply keep you safe
	from this stuff.
	Keep you safe from Grey Gook, keep you safe from any type of invading molecular,
	in this case, normal viruses, normal bacteria, and any type of artificial virus or bacteria.
	Isn't this off into God's country?
	Well, I thought about that when Mr. Osmond, you know, when he said he didn't want to touch theology.
	It is, after all, creation.
	It certainly would be considered that.
	I'll respond to it in two ways.
	Yes, there are theological concerns with this, obviously.
	However, Arthur C. Clarke one time had a real nice quote.
	The technology of any sufficiently advanced civilization is indistinguishable from magic.
	While I made a corollary, Elliot's corollary, any current generation's technology would seem like magic to previous generations.
	Let's take King Nebuchadnezzar from the Bible.
	Let's bring him up to the present.
	Let's take him into a dark room and turn on the light and turn on a switch.
	Elton, here's the thing.
	That's why I use the word quickening.
	It's all moving at an exponential rate.
	In other words, if you look at what's happened since we've been alive, say, with regard to our fathers and our grandfathers and so forth, the rate of change is just going nuts.
	It's on an exponential curve.
	Yes.
	Well, like I said, I mean, to complete the analogy, what we do right now would be considered magic to somebody from Nebuchadnezzar's time.
	Absolutely.
	What they would be doing in the future, we would consider magic.
	However, it would be based on technology.
	The question is the moral dimension.
	Do we have the wisdom?
	Do we have the wisdom to do this?
	I mean, for instance, if you develop nanotechnology, you have an economic monopoly, but if you go out there and you create smart bricks, how many people do you throw out of work?
	Well, actually, nanotechnology, if developed, makes money a thing of the past.
	There wouldn't be... Absolutely.
	There wouldn't be money.
	You might have something along the lines of a British thermal unit, which would still have some meaning.
	I mean, there would be a medium of exchange.
	You could do that, but it couldn't be based upon anything hard like gold or silver.
	Alright, hold it right there.
	We'll be right back to you.
	You don't have to put up with it.
	What am I talking about?
	Hard, foul water.
	That's right.
	Hard water gets into everything, fouls it up.
	You know what I mean?
	The white, scaly stuff that sticks to about everything, including even your hair, your skin.
	Takes your shower head, gets in your pipes, packs your water heater until you're paying about $300 more a year just to heat the water.
	Well, there is an answer.
	Magnetic water conditioning by GMX.
	I've been telling you about Joan in Boulder, Colorado.
	Well, how about Sam and Kelly in Las Vegas?
	They're also using GMX to unfoul their home.
	They write, quote, Everything Art Bell said about GMX Magnetic Water Conditioner came true in our house.
	Our glasses are clearer, our shower walls cleaner, we're using less soap.
	We're very happy with our investment in GMX, end quote.
	Thanks Sam, thanks Kelly.
	Most of you know I've got it here in my home.
	It magnetically conditions the water so it will not foul up your home, hair, or car.
	The cost?
	$600 for the average house.
	And it comes with a 90-day money-back guarantee.
	Call right now.
	1-800-4060-GMX.
	Ordering is easy.
	Becoming one of the many satisfied GMX customers is a snap.
	Call toll-free 1-800-4060-GMX.
	That's 1-800-4060-GMX.
	The exact opposite of nano, in this case, is absolutely fresh flowers.
	Because their shipment is humongous.
	Gigantic.
	Nothing nano about it.
	If you want to absolutely blow away a female in your life, And it doesn't matter any female, they all react the same way.
	Oh, there's an occasional abby normal female who will say, I hate flowers.
	I've had one in all the years.
	Otherwise, they love them.
	There is no better deal in America than the deal you get when you deal straight with the flower farm.
	You pay $39.95.
	That's all.
	That includes delivery by FedEx next day during the week.
	Get a little handwritten card from you, signed by you.
	And some flower preservative.
	Nothing nano about it.
	You want the best deal in America on flowers?
	Call them now.
	1-800-562-6438.
	That's 1-800-562-6438.
	eight hundred five six to six four three eight that's one eight hundred
	five six too six four three eight
	elva logo i said uh...
	and maybe i ought to be saying thank god i wonder what which it really is that
	i'm i'm may just miss this uh...
	I wonder if it is going to turn into a nano-dream or a nano-nightmare.
	I mean, those are good... It is up to us to make the difference.
	It is up to us by making the public aware of this, by insisting that research be done openly, By insisting that secrecy be a thing of the past.
	Anything that is going to change our behavior.
	I mean, anything that's going to change, excuse me, anything that's going to change ourselves as much as then a technology will, we're going to have to change our behavior to adapt to it.
	Well, there's about as much chance of that as there is of the authorities inviting Art Bell to go visit Area 51 and S4.
	Well, that's probably absolutely true.
	And of course, that opens up a whole other can of worms.
	And that involves the social ramifications.
	For instance, one of the big arguments that's been made, the reason why the government may be covering up things in, you know, Various and sundry places.
	I'm dealing with what the guest at the top of your show talked about.
	Yes.
	One of those reasons might be simply that they're concerned about the social ramifications.
	About social dislocation.
	Of course.
	Well, the fact of the matter is that... I mean, they've got to be able to manage us, right?
	That's right, that's right.
	And they may be able to manage something like that.
	But they can't manage nanotechnology.
	It simply can't be stopped.
	It's happening all around the world.
	I sorrowfully agree with you in a way.
	The genie's out.
	It's not going to be put back in the bottle.
	The trouble is, I've got this awful feeling they're far ahead of the private sector.
	I mean, I'm sure they've got labs working.
	Anything this powerful, anything this powerful, Elton, they're working on it hard.
	You know it.
	If indeed they are working on it hard.
	Then it's going to be, we indeed are going to be living in extremely interesting times.
	Anything that can alter what you look like, how smart you are, where you go.
	The color of your eyes.
	The color of your eyes.
	We haven't even talked about one of the most profound impacts of nanotechnology.
	And that would be?
	And that would be the human mind.
	Alright, that's a good hook.
	The human mind coming up next.
	With Elton Elliott, Nanotechnology.
	If you want to send us a fax, it's area code 702-727-8499.
	Coming up shortly, your calls.
	727-8499. Coming up shortly, your calls. This is Dreamland.
	That's us.
	Talk 102.
	Here's the Talk 102 forecast for central Illinois.
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	Increasing cloudiness tomorrow and a high around 75.
	And Tuesday's outlook, occasional showers and thunderstorms likely with a high near 65 degrees.
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	Keep listening. Greenland continues on talk 102.
	A lot of people think that to appreciate culture, you've got to enjoy things like this.
	Or this.
	In early Mesopotamia, evidence of the first audit exists in the form of lists on clay tablets.
	Well, a lot of people respond to those things like this.
	Farmers.
	Other people go... Is it over?
	For those of you in the... category, you can't expect every cultural activity to appeal to everybody.
	That's why 23,000 arts and humanities groups called the National Cultural Alliance are offering you something everybody likes!
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	Good evening, everybody.
	I'm Art Bell.
	I wish I could tell you that what we're talking about this evening is nono-nonsense.
	But it's not.
	It is the immediate and near future, and it is both a reason to be hopeful and a reason to be frightened.
	And maybe a reason to pray.
	I don't know.
	What would you say, Elton, people ought to do more of out there?
	Be hopeful, frightened, or pray?
	Pray.
	You mentioned the human mind, Elton.
	What applications would there be in nanotechnology for the human mind?
	Well, one of the things that over the years, science fiction writers, of which which is one of the things that I do besides consulting on
	business.
	One of the things that science fiction writers do is they write about the future.
	The future has been a fairly comfortable place to write about essentially and to set stories
	in because there was kind of a consensus future.
	You'd have space flights, you'd go out into the galaxy, you'd form empires or big types of governments and they'd collapse and then they'd come back and then maybe eventually way down the line you'd meet up with God or something like that.
	This was a consensus future.
	Well now technology has essentially And strip that aside, and strip that aside in one way, and that is that nanotechnology offers possibilities in terms of altering the human brain.
	Capabilities, for instance, of directly putting a very, very, say, something the size of a sugar cube or smaller that would contain, for instance, the entire Library of Congress and putting it in our heads.
	I mean, wouldn't you like to be a world-class mathematician, or a world-class scientist, or a world-class, you know, whatever?
	In other words, integrating a nanotechnological computer with a biological unit, i.e., human being.
	Correct.
	And if people think that this is, once again, if they think it's a pie in the sky, recent research has been done.
	Well, I posed a question with my guest last week, and I'll hit you with the same one.
	neurons. In the past, the only way you could do this is by electrodes, which caused all
	sorts of problems in terms of corrosion, electrical damage to the biological systems. And they've
	now discovered a way to circumvent this. Once again, directly from the New York Times.
	Well, I posed a question with my guest last week, and I'll hit you with the same one.
	And this is probably a crude example, but it's one I could think of. There are people
	with disconnected tissue, so that what their eye sees is not transmitted to their brain.
	Now, you might be able to take somebody who's blind and have them see.
	You might be able to take somebody who's blind and have them see.
	I think you would be able to do all sorts of other things, but consider for a moment, we tend to operate With a few exceptions of peak capacity, our minds tend to operate at a certain speed, okay?
	We're presented with some information and some of us are faster than others at correlating that information.
	Imagine if you had human beings capable of correlating information at the speed of a computer.
	Then you have a super race.
	Well, what you have is you have a future in which science fiction writers are in big trouble because we write characters that are knowable to the audiences today.
	And how do you write logically about a character like that?
	Who's smarter than you are?
	Well, again, let me drag you back a little bit.
	If you could get the blind to see, then you could take somebody like me, and you could put something in the optic nerve that would allow me to see in the infrared spectrum.
	Or we could have something to allow you to see into the infrared, into the ultraviolet, I would presume, all along the electromagnetic spectrum.
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	You would be, for instance, in terms of information transfer, take something that's directly connected to your mind, have that piece of information leave your brain, have it disassembled, have it travel at light speed to another part of the galaxy even, have it reassembled, correlate information, come back to your mind.
	How far might we be, Elton, from, and this is the analogy I used last week, I can take information on my hard drive and transfer it in a very short amount of time to another hard drive.
	That's a massive amount of information.
	What would stop us, eventually, from taking the contents of a human mind and, in essence, In essence, copying them.
	Downloading it.
	Or uploading, however you want to look at it.
	My answer is, and other people talk about this in the scientific conferences, and it always makes my skin crawl.
	That's right.
	It does mine too.
	I think that the viewers last week, some of them had some very insightful notions, and one of those insightful notions is that there's something special about life and there's something special about consciousness.
	Other than those that are staring blankly at their radio, we don't have viewers, mostly we have listeners.
	I'm sorry about that.
	No, the point is, and here's the hard question, you said you wouldn't be afraid of these.
	Let's say they hook me up.
	And they in effect uploaded or downloaded all of the information in my brain.
	The question is, hold on to the question.
	On the other end, in this nanotechnological device, what would they have?
	Would they have me?
	Would they have my soul?
	What would they have?
	Okay, let's say that you're out at the beach.
	And you take a picture of a particularly spectacular sunset.
	You don't have the sunset.
	You have an image of the sunset.
	If they take your mind and they put it into a machine, they may not have you.
	They may not have you.
	There may be something about the human body that we don't know about.
	There may be something, in other words, you may need.
	This is why I keep talking about augmenting our own bodies because our minds may need our bodies in ways that we don't understand.
	And that's something this research is going to tell.
	The question is, I mean, if you can augment your body and essentially have virtual immortality, you don't have to worry about, I mean, essentially your body is going to become a machine anyway.
	Alright, I would like to begin to take, would you be willing to take some fast phone calls?
	Absolutely.
	All right.
	Boy, this is just a mind-boggling technology, and I'm sitting here almost wishing that it wasn't.
	Anyway, here we go.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Elton Elliott.
	Good evening.
	Yeah, this reminds me of a couple things that in my past.
	One is, be careful what you ask for.
	The second one reminded me of King Midas and the Golden Touch when he hugged his daughter.
	And the third one would be in the Yes.
	Yes.
	Yes.
	that she ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge?
	Yes.
	That she would be like God?
	Yes.
	All right, very good.
	Okay, but that wasn't necessarily the fruit of the tree of knowledge.
	That was the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
	Yes.
	Good and evil.
	And in the Bible, knowledge meant knowing.
	Knowing somebody meant acting.
	There was some sort of action that went along with eating the fruit of that particular tree.
	In this case, just obeying a direct order.
	All right, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Elton Elliott.
	Hi.
	I'm just more of a believer now about the trust of government, not to trust scientists,
	not to trust nothing.
	I'll tell your viewers to start saving up on water.
	I'll tell you, first of all, I don't have viewers, I have listeners.
	I hate television, so quit saying that.
	Okay, listeners.
	Yeah, thank you.
	Start saving up on water and food and rely on yourselves.
	Thank you.
	You're welcome.
	I would... Second that emotion.
	I would be concerned about the government, I would be concerned about scientists, and I would be concerned in both cases because they're all too human.
	But as for water, the problem with this technology is if you've got small machines that are on
	a molecular level, you can't hide from them.
	I mean they can go through walls, they can get you anywhere, any place.
	The only solution to this is to develop active shields.
	The only solution to being overwhelmed by this technology is to be actively involved
	I'm already overwhelmed and I can't figure out whether it means that we're living in the last great days or the last of the bad days.
	I don't know which it is.
	I'll tell you something.
	In some ways, maybe both.
	In some ways, maybe that's not a self-contradictory concept.
	Gee, maybe we'll be looking back at these as the good old days, back when we had social problems and every now and then somebody got killed by a gang or something or another.
	Well, I don't know if that would be considered good, but... Well, but compared to what could be in terms of the massive destructive power of nanotechnology used incorrectly.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Elton Elliott.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Jerry in Alturas, California, listening to the program.
	Hi, Jerry.
	One of the things I was wondering listening to this nanotechnology is very interesting to me.
	I get to thinking about all of the new viruses that are showing up like Ebola and those strains of viruses.
	And I was kind of wondering, since they haven't been able to find the host or the source of these viruses, if it might not be one of these nanotechnology experiments gone awry?
	Oh, what a damn good question.
	You know, the caller is right.
	Ebola, they have speculated, it comes from crystals and caves, and they've talked about a million different things, but they don't know.
	They have no idea where it keeps coming from.
	Nor AIDS.
	Nor AIDS, right.
	Is it possible?
	I would say probably with biotechnology you could do the same thing you would need to go say as far as nanotech.
	Okay, in other words, yeah, that could be something that could be done with today's technology.
	May have already done.
	I mean, engineering viruses, sure.
	If we can do recombinant DNA with E. coli, sure.
	So we're already there.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Eldon Elliott.
	Where are you calling from, please?
	I am calling from Louisville, Kansas.
	All right, go ahead.
	And I was beginning to think you could only get on by invitation only.
	Oh my goodness, your guest is marvelous.
	I wanted to know, this technology that's come through, is it all Human or aren't the entered or has any of it come from
	alien technology all right that is hold on hold your answer for a second
	Here's a fax art I've always wondered how the aliens could make materials
	that could not be violated by any human means now I believe I know how they do it nano technology
	Could we now be seeing the results of the Roswell recovery of alien saucer material can't believe that we have
	happened upon this technology without some outside
	help Okay, I can I I really think this is I really think this is
	one that I can that I can answer authoritatively Anyway, um...
	Most of the people that came up with the original notions of nanotechnology, most of it came from the brain of one person, Eric Drexler.
	Okay, and Eric Drexler, although I never met him in high school, he and I went to the same, went to high schools near each other in the mid-Willamette Valley in Oregon.
	I mean, I know Eric Drexler.
	I've sat down, I've eaten with him.
	He's human.
	Okay, I mean, the people that came up with this, no, this is not something that is reverse-engineered alien technology or anything like that.
	No, this is human.
	How can you know that?
	Well, I mean... Let me even try this, Elmer.
	How can you account for the rapidly increasing technological revolution, the pace of it?
	How can you account for that?
	When all of previous human history, plot we have taken, there was intervention.
	It might be reasonable to speculate that there's intervention.
	As a matter of fact, what was it, Daniel says knowledge shall be increased, men shall run to and fro.
	I think that's biblical.
	So that notion has been around for a long time, yeah.
	But as for specific, as for the notion that this specific technology is it, I mean, I've The first major conference that was held on the West Coast, NanoCon 1, which was February of 1989, I was present with a whole bunch of other people.
	This is about, within about a year prior to that is when I first became aware of this technology and of the possibilities, and I will tell you, it had an incredible impact on me.
	That is just absolutely... I knew this was the future.
	There was an instinctive understanding there.
	Now, could that sort of instinctive understanding be implanted somehow just, you know, out there in the ether somehow by aliens?
	Who knows?
	And who could tell?
	Alright, we'll be right back to Elton Elliott.
	It reminds me... I'm reminded of the obelisk.
	Of the obelisk.
	And I too, there's no way to know, this is utter speculation, where this technology came from.
	Easily could be the mind of man.
	It's just that, gee, we sure have done this quickly.
	And again, I must wonder, on the edge of this kind of technology, whether these are the last great days, whether the future is going to be there at all.
	And it's going to depend on how man handles This technology, and I have this sour feeling we're not quite ready.
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	If you think the Earth is alive, then the next question is, what is thinking?
	What is it thinking?
	The Earth, that is.
	That's the point where Now, those with an agenda wrap it up in a nice, easy-to-swallow package that the mere mortal who is terribly ill-equipped to ever understand it all thinks to himself, yeah, that'd explain it.
	Yeah, the Earth is alive.
	Fortunately, other than the Native American, most of the proponents of the Living Earth idea always seem to be environmental crusaders on a mission to stop the use of Earth's resources for anything but sustaining a controlled population With technology slightly above that of cavemen.
	The Native American is a pure hypocrite.
	And a perfect example of what happens when you put your trust in myth.
	He goes on to talk about some particular Indian tribe that exploited and polluted the environment until they became extinct.
	So he says, the next time you have a guest who says the Earth is alive, Be that nut and bolts kind of guy you are and ask for something more substantial, like proof.
	Not some sorry excuse like cultures around the world throughout history have believed the earth is alive.
	They also thought it was flat.
	Or that the sun was carried across the sky by chariots.
	If you're afraid to ruffle the feathers of an invited guest, let me ask the tough questions.
	You can't be held responsible for caller's inquisition, besides, When a question demands an answer, like you say on Dreamland, don't these answers demand to be proven before we are to believe them?
	And that was from Steve of Santa Barbara.
	So, um, I thought that you guys ought to hear that before Robert Morningstar does.
	And, uh, indeed, I will, um, let him answer this.
	In the meantime, some of you might want to get a shot in.
	So there you've got it.
	Here are the phone numbers.
	If you're a first-time caller to the program, venturing forth, it's 1, dial 1 first, then our area code, 702.
	727-1222.
	702 7 2 7 1 2 2 2
	The wildcard direct dial lines are area code 7 The toll-free west of the Rockies line 1-800-618-8255.
	1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033.

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