Dreamland with Art Bell - Ancient Egypt - John Anthony West
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Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of a mind as yet not mapped.
And yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
This is Dreamland.
Good evening, another Sunday, another Dreamland.
It's gonna be a good one.
Linda Howe is still in Britain.
She's got new information on the Santilli film.
The one to be repeated, I might add, with new footage here in the USA tomorrow night.
The one that purports to be of an alien... Shall we say examination autopsy?
Shredding very nearly.
It's serious stuff.
And she'll have a new report for us as well as a guest herself.
That will be followed by John Anthony West, who is not an archaeologist, but an Egyptologist.
And, uh, we've got all kinds of fascinating things to talk with him about.
And, uh, so it's going to be a very, very interesting Greenland.
Uh, as would be the case with our newest affiliate, KBEG in Las Vegas.
Uh, last minute apparent, uh, technical difficulties are going to present, uh, prevent them from airing the program this week, but, uh, trust me, It will be on as should be next week.
So, there you've got it, and we'll get on to it all in a moment.
I want to remind my audience of two very, very important things.
One is our deadline for subscription to the newsletter.
The deadline for ordering that newsletter is midnight Pacific Time tonight, or when this program goes off the air.
Um, you don't, so that's it.
I mean, if you want it, you've got to begin dialing now and you've got to get through by the end of the program.
To order the newsletter, simply call 1-800-917-4278.
1-800-917-4278 1-800-917-4278
1-800-917-4278.
In addition, I have new photographs available on our bulletin board as of right now.
One is entitled Roof, R-O-O-F dot G-I-F.
It is a picture of something indescribable, above a roof, with a man standing on the roof.
Download it, you tell me what it is.
The second photograph is simply entitled Alien dot G-I-F.
It is a photograph of an alien, apparently also in some sort of autopsy situation, it would appear.
And the third is entitled Earth.gif.
All brand new, all on our bulletin board.
You can get into our bulletin board by calling Area Code 702-727-1709.
702-727-1709. 702-727-1709. Linda Howe coming up in just one moment.
702-727-1709.
The first thing we try to find out is if the port is really from 1947.
Because, I mean, this is the Mesa Point, this is the connection to the UFO crash, and here's the Coral, which is what happened June the 3rd, 1947.
The first checking was with Kodak, and Kodak was informed about the geometric gear marking on the print, and Kodak Hollywood Um replied to Ray Santilli on June 28th of this year that the original negative stock was definitely manufactured in Watford, New York in either 1947 or 1967.
Now to say for sure which of the two possibilities we have um you have to make a chemical analysis because In the 1950s, Kodak changed the film material, the film stock, from what they had before, which was acetate propionate material, to triacetate and the level of chemical terminate for safety film.
And so the important thing was to take out the original material.
So Ray Santilli was willing to give A piece of the original 16mm orthopoxy film with images on it to Bob Schell, a certified FBI phototechnical consultant.
And I just got four days ago the summary, the full report by Bob Schell, and he came to the conclusion that it is definitely without a shadow of a doubt 1947 original film.
And more than that, he wrote, that you can use it only, you could use this type of film only for two years.
So it must have been exposed between 1947 and 1949.
Wow.
And it would be impossible to take unexposed super double X film from 1947 and then expose it today and get any sort of usable image.
So we can clearly exclude any photographic fake or pottery.
All right, let me be clear, Michael.
Are you able to hear me all right?
I hear you perfectly.
All right, fine.
You're saying, then, the film was actually exposed.
In other words, they gave a clip with imagery on it, as opposed to just liter.
And that proves, with chemical analysis, that it was exposed between 1947 and 1949.
Is that correct?
Right.
This is absolutely correct.
All right.
One thing, Michael, that many people are asking about here in the States is that many of the old films of that kind have little lines and streaks and blurbs in them, and they did not notice that in this film.
Because the film would never, never run through a projector.
Actually, the cameraman developed it and tested it, and it never ran through a projector.
Another thing is that, of course, wait until he chemically cleaned the material before he projected it on beta-cam material.
Of course.
Well, that would answer that as well.
This is beginning to look more and more like the real thing.
I fully agree with you and this is what we try to do.
I'm an independent journalist and UFO researcher and I started to contact Ray Santilli in February when I heard about it the first time and my intention was really to find out if this is true or not and I was very sceptic after I saw the film the first time on May the 5th in the May the 5th viewing And my intention was to verify or to check out the cameraman's plane.
And one part of it was that in July I went to New Mexico and I tried to locate the crash site, the actual crash site, according to the description of the cameraman.
And just to check him out, how good he knows the area, and to see if he finds any traces of any military operation, retrieval operation.
And what happened is, first I got a very vague description by Ray Santilli, then I asked Ray, who always was very cooperative, to call the cameraman and give me a more detailed description.
And after about five hours, we finally reached the cameraman, and I called him back.
And I got a very accurate description, and I followed the description, and it all pointed to an area southwest of the Coral, New Mexico.
And after I reached the location I found exactly what the cameraman described and I called Ray Santilli again and Ray Santilli called the cameraman again and through the Santilli connection I communicated with the cameraman and got and landscape features very fine like like a big rock gate
like a like a like a big boulder on the top of one of the hills around and he said the crash
happened on the northern shore of a small dry lake bed actually we found a small dry lake bed
and on the northern shore you have an excavated and filled up area of about 50 to 60 feet in
diameter Clearly somebody removed something and filled it up with soil from another area which clearly has a different color, a different substance.
You don't find bushes there.
You don't find big stones in it.
It clearly is an excavated area.
I have a background in archaeology and anthropology, so I know what I'm talking about.
And I will go back to this area, then I come back to the USA, and this fall, and we plan actually an archaeological dig.
We want to find out the profile of the filled-up area, how deep it goes, if we find any tectites, because the cameraman said the object was so hot that it turned sand into glass.
All right.
Might we have the name of the FBI analyst one more time, please?
Bob Schell.
and we try to find places of the military operations, tin cans or whatever, maybe we find something datable.
All right, might we have the name of the FBI analyst one more time please?
Bob Schell.
Bob Schell.
And actually he is also an editor of many major photo magazines all over the world.
He is the author of 14 special books on photography, including the Canon Compendium
and the most important book about Canon cameras.
He is editor and photo-technical advisor of Shutterback, PhotoPro, Outdoor Nature Photography and many other photographic magazines.
Actually, he started in the Smithsonian Institution in Washington working for them, and then he specialized in technical photography.
He is a professional photographer, and he is a photo technical advisor and technical advisor of the FBI and other government agencies in Washington.
Well, Michael, we're very short on time, but you have given us big news.
And especially just the day before it is to be rebroadcast here with new footage.
We don't know what kind of new footage here in America on Fox.
So I want to thank you, especially for being there at 3 o'clock in the morning.
And if you would put Linda on for us for just a moment, once again.
Of course.
And thank you very much, Art.
Thank you.
Thank you, Michael.
Hi, Art.
OK, Linda, that's what I would call breaking news.
Yes, I think so and I think that things are going to continue to unravel and unfold in this story because while we were here in this weekend we were receiving information and I think it's going to continue over this week and I would say to everyone here is a good example of how everyone seems to be rushing to different areas of judgment either for or against and right now More and more information seems to be supporting that there's something highly unusual about this film and what none of us know is what exactly is this humanoid?
Which crash did it come from?
The cameraman himself in his own statement sent this until he says that he was taken to a site 10 miles southwest of Socorro between Socorro and Magdalena Not at the Corona Roswell crash site.
Which is not saying that there's not a Corona Roswell site.
What this is implying is more than one crash, more than one collection of bodies.
And my guess is that over the next 12 months, at some point, more footage is going to be released.
Possibly of a completely different type of alien.
We may be in the beginning of the cracking.
Finally, the cracking on this crash and retrieval stuff, but what is so odd to all of us is the first humanoid out, and television and everything else has six fingers and six toes, and it doesn't match any of the other descriptions in government documents.
Indeed odd.
All right, Linda, I've got to go, but I assume next week it will be from Italy, is that correct?
That's right.
Well, Linda, I've got to get out of here.
Have a good flight.
Thank you.
Thank you for the big breaking news.
Yeah, thanks.
Take care, Linda.
And to your guests as well, thank you.
And that is news.
We'll be back.
You don't have to put up with it.
What am I talking about?
Hard, foul water.
That's right.
Hard water gets into everything, fouls it up.
You know what I mean?
The white, scaly stuff that sticks to about everything, including even your hair, your skin.
Yell.
I see.
What do you yell?
The weather, the news, whatever.
And people could hear this?
Not at first, but then I started using a megaphone, a big one.
People could hear for blocks.
So what if people didn't want to hear what you were saying?
Some people expressed that concern, so then I invented something for that.
And that was?
Earplugs.
People prefer radio.
Go figure, now it's everywhere, in cars and elevators, strapped to their heads, music, news, comedy, talk shows.
I had the very first talk show, you know.
Did you really?
Yeah, people would yell up at me from the sidewalk.
We discussed every issue of the day.
Uh-huh, such as?
Shut up up there!
Get off the roof!
And I'd yell back, mind your own business!
Entertaining, let me tell you, people loved it.
I bet, yeah.
Radio, putting the world in your hands.
Excuse me.
20 times the antioxidant value of vitamin C.
I shouldn't really have to say anything more than that.
Go to your library, get some material, study.
When you're ready to order, call the people at Health Naturally.
Here's the number.
1-800-856-1119.
Take it down.
1-800-856-1119.
Health Naturally.
1-800-856-1119. Take it down. 1-800-856-1119. Held naturally. Now, for many years in this
country, there has been a great debate about Barry Goldwater and whether he actually spoke
to General LeMay with regard to UFOs and something held at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.
It's almost been an urban legend.
Thanks to a friend of mine at KCMO in Kansas City, Mike Murphy, Who just happened to have an interview with Barry Goldwater.
We got Barry Goldwater's response to exactly that question.
You need wonder no longer.
Get close to your radio.
It's a little difficult to hear.
It was one of those interviews done with a tape recorder down in the middle of the table.
But there is no mistaking who it is.
I want you to listen to the following very carefully.
An interview of Barry Goldwater.
Listen to what he has to say about General LeMay.
But there's all these conspiracy stories now that are coming out, and the greatest one of all, and now I don't know whether this is folklore or whether this is true, but I've been a flying saucer fan since I was a little kid.
I used to know Major Donald Kehoe.
His mother used to live next door to us.
So back in the 40s, he came out with Blind Saucers Are Real and all these books.
So I'm a little kid, and I've been with this all my life.
And maybe this is folklore, but the story is you tried to find something out about the Roswell crash.
Is that true?
I know that at Rose Patterson Field, the Air Force had And I have to assume it's still there.
Had a room, I think they called the Blue Room or the Green Room, in which was assembled all the information that the Air Force had put together on UFOs.
So I called my friend Kurt LeMay one day, and I said, what about this, Kurt?
Could I see the stuff in there?
Boy, he cussed me out in every four letter word.
Do you remember what he said?
I can't repeat it.
Don't ever ask me that again, and don't ever talk about it to anybody.
I don't want to hear you ever mention it.
Now, I... I can't sit... I won't sit here and say I believe in UFOs, but I can tell you this.
There's about two billion planets in this universe that we know about.
How many other universes are there?
We don't know.
Nobody can tell me that this is the only planet of two billion on which there are living things like people.
Alright, well there you've got it.
In the words of Barry Goldwater, no more an urban legend.
Now you know he said it.
Imagine that as a response to a U.S.
Senator from a U.S.
Air Force General.
Imagine that.
John Anthony West is a writer and independent Egyptologist who has been studying and writing about ancient Egypt for nearly three decades.
He is the foremost exponent of the Symbolist School of Egyptology.
Which sees and demonstrates an ancient sacred science where modern academics see mainly just superstition.
His work, redating the Great Sphinx of Giza via geology, proving it must be at least 10,000 years old or older, was the subject of a 1993 NBC special, The Mystery of the Sphinx, hosted, you'll recall perhaps, by Charleston Heston.
Charlton Heston, that was viewed by 30 million people.
Now this was one of the most successful documentaries ever shown, has escalated into a heated international scholarly controversy.
He won an Emmy in 1993 for Best Research for his work on the video and the show itself, which was actually nominated for Best Documentary Program.
The BBC subsequently produced its own version of that show for its prestigious and popular science series, Time Watch.
Retitled, Age of the Sphinx, the show recorded the second highest ratings of any Time Watch episode, generated still further controversy in the English press.
His non-fiction books include Serpent in the Sky, The High Wisdom of Ancient Egypt, A Detailed Examination of the Symbolist Interpretation of Egypt.
The Traveler's Key to Ancient Egypt and the Case for Astrology.
He's also written a book of short stories, a novel, plays, a film.
His essays and criticism have appeared in the New York Times.
He is presently at work on a book devoted to his work on the Great Sphinx.
Now, here is John Anthony West.
John, welcome to the program.
Thank you, Art.
Pleasure to be on.
You're in Athens, New York, I guess, eh?
That's right.
Athens, New York.
John, how in the world did you get started or even interested in all of this?
Well, it wasn't actually... Long story, but I'll cut it short, even though we've got two and a half hours on.
I initially started out as a writer, novelist, playwright, screenwriter, and so on.
Got very interested while I was living in Spain, back in the early 60s, in ancient science, ancient religion, mysticism, and so on.
Had a novel published in England, and got very friendly with my editor, who was a Cambridge-trained mathematician-turned-publisher.
And we were drinking at a pub one day, and the subject of astrology came up.
And it was a subject I'd studied in some depth, but it wasn't my favorite subject.
The subject of astrology came up.
He said, that's a lot of rubbish.
And I said, well, actually, it isn't.
There's a certain amount of evidence out there.
And if you collected it, direct and indirect, you'd actually have a case.
And he said, well, is that really true?
Let me see.
So I brought this stuff in.
And he said, well, gee, this is, I'm not convinced, but this is interesting.
Would you do a book on it?
And I basically said, well, yeah, you pay me some money, I'll do a book on anything, being flat broke, like most writers at the time.
And then all of a sudden, I had to get professional about this interest.
And in doing the research for that book on astrology called A Case for Astrology, originally my first non-fiction book, I came across the work, the egyptological work of R. A. Schwaller de Lubitz, a French philosopher with the unpronounceable name, and just stopped what I was doing and spent a year in the British Museum researching Schwaller, who at that time hadn't been translated out of French, included a A chapter which really didn't belong in the astrology book, which had interested me so much, on Schwaller's symbol of Egypt in that first astrology book.
And then that generated a lot more interest because, as I said, Schwaller hadn't been translated at the time.
And so publishers came to me and said, well, would you do a book on Schwaller and this interpretation of Egypt?
Well, that interested me more than the astrology, actually.
And I said, you bet.
And you know, another five years to get professional in that.
All right.
Well, I take it your view of the age of Egypt is very different than that of the traditional geologists or Egyptologists.
last 25 years, one way or another, have been devoted to Egypt, with some time in between
to get some stories and plays written and things of that sort, but mostly Egypt.
All right, well I take it your view of the age of Egypt is very different than that of
the traditional geologists or Egyptologists, is that correct?
Well, yes and no.
Dynastic Egypt, the Egypt that everyone knows about, of the temples and the tombs and so on, no, that basically arises around 3000 B.C.
when the Egyptologists and the archaeologists say it arose.
However, the slink and It's complicated, but the present pyramids actually almost certainly date from when they're supposed to date, about 2,500 B.C.
However, they are built, they either replace or in one case certainly are superimposed
upon earlier structures and the strength of course which is central to this whole investigation
dates almost certainly from...
...the time of the first one.
Please do not call.
Talk with Art Bell.
Rebroadcast at this time, please do not call.
♪♪ Talk with Art Bell. First-time callers to Dreamland dial 702-727-1222.
This is Dreamland on the CBC Radio Network.
It is indeed.
My guest is John Anthony West.
We'll be back to him in just a moment.
The deal is almost over.
If you would like to get in on UFO Facts, now to our guest, John Anthony West.
John?
Hello.
Hi.
John, give us a little primer, those of us who don't know a lot about it.
What is the Sphinx?
Ah, what is this thing?
Gigantic statue, 240 feet long, I think the largest statue on Earth.
66 feet high, carved out of solid bedrock, out of a limestone.
It's the body of a lion, and the head of a human being.
Usually assumed to be male, but maybe not.
Could, well, could be female.
And there it is.
You know, titanic statue.
Hard to imagine anybody doesn't actually know, hasn't seen pictures of the Sphinx, what it signifies, what it's meant to represent.
Big arguments about the ancient Egyptians themselves, never.
What do you lean toward?
Well, I'm particularly in the work that's come out in the last couple of years, not just our work, but work of Robert Boval, the Belgian engineer who's done all of the interesting astronomical work around the pyramids and Sphinx.
And our dating, which seems to put us back probably around 10,000 B.C., unless it's the precessional cycle before that.
But it's, it's, it's, see, an astrological significance seems to impose itself upon you.
In other words, the body of the lion, hard to imagine that that's not the sign of Leo.
And the head of human beings, some people think it represents the cusp between Leo and Virgo.
Another way of looking at it is that it represents the axis of Leo and Aquarius.
I'm more inclined to that myself.
But even without the astronomical, astrological interpretation, symbolically it would seem to represent the lion is an old, the great cat is always a symbol in every culture and the Mayans and the Indians and so on in India.
Tiger and the Mayans, Jaguars, the great cat is always a solar symbol and seems to represent the manifest power of the sun and the human head would seem to be the ability of the physical to become spiritual, in other words, to unite again with the celestial or divine source.
So that seems symbolically the strength could be that There was a kind of a metaphysical teaching in and of itself.
Alright, well there is where I want to interrupt you for a second.
As we have evidence of Egyptians remaining today, is there anything to indicate that the Egyptians recorded anything from any previous civilizations as we are now digging into and trying to record what we can find out about the Egyptians?
Depending on how you look at things.
You see, the Egyptians themselves never recorded history.
I mean, it's a very peculiar thing that we know as much as we do about Egypt, from all of those temples and tombs and so on, and yet there's virtually not a shred of history.
Mostly, the Egyptians are concerned with what my friend Graham Hancock in Fingerprints of the Gods calls the science of immortality.
I mean, the Egyptians weren't really interested In fact, the way that we are, the Egyptians were interested, basically, in the meaning of our human existence, which is, from their point of view, the return to the source.
And so what Graham calls the science of immortality is what all of those temples and all of those tombs are dedicated to.
So, by inference, there are, you know, kind of hints and mentions of earlier times, that they kind of surface through the text if you read them carefully.
Okay, well, here's what I was leading to.
As we record today on computers, today on paper, and the Egyptians recorded on stone or into stone and on tablets, is there the possibility that a previous civilization of some sort did not record, as we understand recording, But was more of a metaphysical kind of civilization that may have communicated directly without words as we know them?
Well, that's also possible, but I think more likely they didn't give a damn about what we call facts.
I mean, it doesn't really matter.
Who cares about history?
What matters is what you do with your own life this moment on a day-to-day basis.
And I'm inclined to think that that was more their focus Although they did write into things, and this is the newest work, just in the last five years, Robert Boval and other people are doing this work.
They wrote it in myth and in symbol and in astronomy, basically.
I mean, things are astronomically aligned, and one of the ways in which we're able now, not just our work is geological, but Ms.
Boval's work, which is astronomical, showing that temples and pyramids and so on were aligned
very, very precisely to certain stars and star systems and constellations at certain
periods of time, and there's still more work coming out.
I mean, it's all breaking now.
It's funny, we were talking earlier how things are suddenly happening in such a barrage that
you can't keep up with them, whereas 20 years ago it would be a bit here and a bit there
and you always wondered what was found and what wasn't.
All of a sudden there's a ton of information coming through.
And now, with the astronomy, it's getting clear that if you read the old text correctly,
what looked like funny stories and myths being told, if you read it correctly, you see that
very often it's quite precise scientific information, often astronomical information.
But to what end?
Why that astronomical information was so important to them, that to me is one of the big $64,000 questions out there.
Why should this very slow shift around the zodiac have been of such paramount importance to the ancients?
In other words, why should they build a pyramid in such a way that it's aligned precisely to the cardinal points and drill a shaft?
I mean, you can't imagine how much work it takes to build one of these All right, while we're on the subject of knowledge, we get faxes here.
precisely aligned to zero in on the stars making up the belt of Orion at 2450 BC.
Why should they do such a thing?
Obviously, it's of some real significance to them.
In other words, they've got to know something that we don't know.
And it seems to me...
All right, while we're on the subject of knowledge, we get faxes here.
Here's already a faxed question for you.
Actually, I have some.
Edgar Cayce spoke of a tomb located beneath the feet of the Sphinx.
Edgar said that it contained the Atlantean Library.
I wonder if you could shine any light on this?
I've got a lot of light on that.
It's not a tomb, actually.
It's a chamber.
And there is such a chamber there.
Our friend McGrath found it.
And, using a much less precise method of investigation, the Japanese team before us also found some sort of an anomaly there, but our seismographs, you know, we had a chance to do some pretty detailed work, show that there's very definitely a pretty substantial chamber, about 9 by 12 meters, that's, what, 45 feet by, no, 40 feet, something like that, by 30 feet, something of the sort, under about Under about 15 feet of bedrock.
Between the paws of the sink, exactly where Casey said it was.
Now, our next big move is... I mean, this is part of our video.
The whole world wants to know what's in that chamber, including us.
But so far, we haven't been able to get permission to go look into it.
And, I mean, really, we wouldn't do that.
I mean, we're not archaeologists.
We're geologists.
Renegades, basically.
But, you know, a team of archaeologists, either theirs or ours, Could look into that, and prior to looking all you have to do is drill a hole through the bedrock and stick in a fiber optic camera and see if there's something there.
Is somebody going to get an opportunity, do you think, to do that?
Well, we hope so.
You can imagine that we're basically upsetting the whole apple cart of ancient history, and so the people who make a living selling apples aren't too happy to have us around.
Of course.
On the other hand, You know, it's solid stuff.
We're dealing with highly credentialed geophysicists and geologists, and it's all done according to standard operating procedure.
And, of course, it's very public now.
Millions of people have seen this, and everybody wants to know what's in that chamber.
So we're kind of hoping that we can get, if not necessarily some allies over there, at least people who recognize that we really are doing things according to A standard operating procedure, and if there's something in there we'd like to know, and it's of interest not just to us, but to them as well, and to the whole world, and so we'll see.
But in fact, with or without the library of Atlantis in that chamber, we're in fact quite certain that if we can get back there with our seismographs and all of our equipment, and there's a whole bunch of there now, dating techniques where you can use the isotopic dating You can date stone in a somewhat analogous way to the way you date organic material with carbon dating.
Whether or not that technique is good enough to give you thousands of years rather than geological millions of years, that we don't know yet either.
But the point is that there's a lot.
Even just a couple of months over there wouldn't even be very expensive to mount such an expedition.
We're sure we'd come up with a lot of very, very interesting information that i was a very the chamber is there exactly
where casey that it was a
curiously enough some of the nasty reviews that came up following our show
so that weston completely discredited because he's mentioned that you're
taking the fact that they think
impact predicted the chamber right where there is a chamber of it
tape kathy right information
i think then called what mediumship but now called uh... channeling
I follow Gordon Michael Scallion.
Right.
And very closely.
He's been on the program many times, and he receives many of the same sorts of criticisms.
However, his predictions are eerily correct.
Well, some of them.
Well, yeah, some of them.
Eighty-some-odd percent.
That's a pretty good batting average.
Is it really as good as that?
Yeah, it's really as good as that, yeah.
And, uh, Casey predicted it.
You say it is there.
Oh, I mean, there's no... Again, you know, the seismographs don't channel it.
They don't argue with the seismographs.
I hear you.
All right.
If we should find... Now, this is all way into speculation, but suppose we found the Library of Atlantis.
What would you imagine it might contain?
I can't imagine.
I mean, let's face it, if it were in a language, almost certainly we wouldn't know that language unless it's some early form of hieroglyphs or something like that.
I mean, nobody knows who invented the Egyptian hieroglyphs or where they stem from or whatever.
So, if they're written, if they're written, we're in serious trouble because somebody's got to go around and decipher them.
I would rather hope that it would be some sort of mathematical or technological something or another that would That would reveal itself by measure and geometry and number, because that would... You know, that might not tell us a history, let's say, or a story of what there was, but it might reveal to us in a more universal language, the language of mathematics and geometry, something of that past civilization.
But from my point of view, anything that was demonstrably and provably Of that kind of antiquity would simply be what's needed to blow the cover, let's say, of the whole Church of Progress, which is one of my key interests, really.
It would be great if we had the actual history of Atlantis, but as far as I'm concerned, one of the most important things is simply to blow up, once and for all, the arrogance of modern humanity that thinks it can get away with the stuff it's doing to this planet.
I don't know.
It depends.
under the guise of science scholarship.
Would you then think...
That could be discredited.
Yes.
That would be a very good...
Well, yes, yes, yes.
But if it contained that kind of information, John, I don't know how cynical you are,
but do you think it would be allowed out?
You know, I don't know.
It depends.
You see, a lot of people say this because...
What is it about right that is unleading us?
You take now who should have to take what's all the time.
I mean, if you know the things the way I do, you know, I mean, it's not as though it's there in public view.
For example, you can shut down the pyramid, which in fact has been done periods of time over the last
few years, for months at a time, not let anybody in,
do all kinds of stuff in secret, and God knows what they'd ever find,
because that they could conceal.
The thing's not so easy.
I mean, if they've got a team out there and they're going to drill holes, they're in public view of the whole wide world, including all of my pals, the camel drivers and the guards and people around.
And, you know, it's not a big deal to drill a hole and stick a fiber optic camera in there, but I'm starting to think that if they were doing anything secretly, there's a good chance that maybe we'd find out.
Otherwise, Yeah, otherwise they might well not tell anybody.
Sure.
Well, I mean, if it was information that was basically telling us we're going down the same end road that others have gone down previously, very quickly headed that way, there would be a very strong, strong force which would not want to change direction radically, but continue down the same profitable road we're on right now for Those who are making the great profit.
Hold on one moment, John, and I'll be back with you in just one moment.
This is Dreamland.
If you feel about the Tomb of Ramses, is there something new or some new discovery surrounding the tomb, John?
Well, this is yes and no.
I mean, obviously, this is a major tomb.
of the sons of Ramesses II, the great pharaoh of the New Kingdom.
Supposedly, I think, 50 or 60 of his sons.
He was a very prolific individual, that Ramesses.
I mean, it's one of the great ironies of modern history, or of modern advertising, that Ramesses, who had supposedly, I think, 66 wives and 190 children, had a condom named after him.
But there's Madison Avenue for you.
Anyway, Ramesses This huge tomb, I mean, it's interesting that the Valley of the Kings, with a honeycomb every inch of this over the course of a hundred years, suddenly divulges what seems to be the biggest, one of the biggest tombs ever discovered.
Right.
What they find in there, in other words, if everything's been rifled, then no.
It's, I mean, interesting.
Historically, here you have this great tomb that, you know, puts inscriptions on the wall, presumably.
It's not going to teach them anything new.
If they come in, if they find any bitter piece of it that's unplundered, well, then they might come up with all kinds of marvelous, who knows, gold, jewelry, and things of that sort.
You know, similar to, perhaps, to common fume.
They don't seem to think that there's much chance of that from what I understand.
From my point of view, even if they found that, well, that's more of the same, and it's very interesting historically, it doesn't teach us anything new.
To me, the interesting thing would be a text on astronomy or a text on mathematics or something like that.
Well, who knows?
I mean, you know, things are coming up all the time, so it's certainly a major discovery and something of intense interest, but I'd be surprised if it took our knowledge of Egypt Any deeper or further into that aspect of things, particularly the depth rather than the extent that interests me.
All right, John.
Hold on.
We'll be right back to you.
Rest for about four moments.
When we come back, we're going to open the phone lines.
So get ready.
Questions about Egypt or earlier civilizations, they come next.
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Now, back to our guest, John Anthony West.
And, John, I've got one question for you, and then we'll go to the phones.
Sure.
The question is the following.
Is man evolving or devolving?
Good question.
I cannot say that I can answer it with assurance.
All I can do is give you my opinion.
In one sense, I would say evolving in the sense that the processes of life are organic and universal.
In other words, everything is born, goes through, you know, becomes an infant, and then a toddler, and then a child, and then an adolescent, and then maturity, and then finesse, and death, and renewal, and so on.
So, I would think that what applies to the individual applies to the race and applies to the planet and the galaxy and so on.
Now, is a healthy six-year-old who becomes a drug addict adolescent evolving or devolving or simply not taking advantage of opportunities that are presented?
I think with us, I mean, we're in a big fix.
You know, when you look at ancient civilizations, the further back you go... I mean, this is... These people didn't think the way we do.
I mean, they didn't have our kind of terrible problems.
They lived in a different level of serenity and accomplishments than ourselves.
I mean, we're very, very clever, but incredibly destructive and obviously...
In a state of tremendous chaos.
My guess would be that we're kind of juvenile delinquents.
So, in one sense, we have capacities that maybe the ancients didn't have, but we've bought those capacities and are now in a terrible pickle.
Well, the question, of course, is even if we are evolving, is it toward some sort of terrible destination, the very same one that previous civilizations have Hard to say.
You know, look, we're now just in the process of, I think, demonstrating that there was, for lack of a better word, call it Atlantis.
I mean, there was a high civilization that went down.
Now, why it went down, that it went down cataclysmically, I think that's pretty well demonstrated in two books in particular recently, by Graham Hancock, Fingerprints of the Gods, that Big bestseller in England and Canada, and doing very well over here, came out about a month ago.
Yes.
And that collects all of the information about when and where and how this happened.
And another book by two Canadian researchers, Rand and Rose Flemmart, called When the Sky Fell, which is out in Canada and will be out here shortly.
And they basically take the work of Charles Hapgood, who was a historian of science who Developed a theory called Crustal Shift, which, without going into a long song and dance, explains geologically, and physically, or geophysically, what was responsible for this terrific cataclysm around the time Plato said it happened, about 9600 B.C.
And this was a theory that basically fell through the cracks.
I mean, nobody paid much attention to it.
Though, somehow or another got into a Into an interesting correspondence with Einstein at the time, shortly before Einstein's death.
And Einstein thought that this was very plausible, difficult to prove, but, you know, that it was a well-argued theory, and even with Einstein's imprimatur upon it, it simply fell through the cracks.
And the Planck's book, When the Sky Fell, takes Hapsburg's work, and then there's been a tremendous amount of implementation of that theory over the course of the last 20 or 30 years, and It sounds ridiculous to say it, but the Atlantis described at great length by Plato and his primaeus is actually what's now Antarctica, but it isn't.
It sounds crazy, but it's not at all crazy, and my own geologists, and I'm, you know, in contact with all sorts of geologists who say, well, look, this is, you know, difficult to prove at the moment, but it really isn't.
You know, this is not implausible, and the theory accounts for a number of things that are otherwise inexplicable, like the mammoth extinctions around 11,000 B.C.
and so on.
So I think, and then of course there's our famous chamber between the pause and the think, I'd almost bet odds on that within the next four or five years we really do have stuff so sure That there were these civilizations, or at least a civilization back around 10,000 B.C., that it really gets accepted, you know, even by its most bitter opponents at the moment.
And then what do you say we do about that?
I mean, that went down almost certainly in a great theological cataclysm.
Now, the legends, if you look into the mythology, this is one piece of the puzzle, all the old myths and legends and so on.
Now, a lot of them talk about, Bible included, Old Testament, That, you know, through man's iniquity and, you know, evil and blah blah blah and sin, that the whole thing went kaput and so forth and so on.
Now, okay, you look at this from a rationalist point of view, it looks absurd.
However, from a totally other point of view, there's some very interesting work being done now
by some very brainy guys at Princeton and other universities.
There's an organization called the SSE, the Society for Scientific Exploration,
and Chuck, my geologist, and myself gave a lecture there, one of the presentations at a recent meeting.
But these people are interested in, they're looking into, using very hard-nosed scientific methods, things like psychokinesis and telepathy and so on, and they're finding out, using very delicate instrumentation, that It is, in fact, possible and provable that you can influence effectively the throw of the dice by will and by thinking.
Now, by extension, I mean, this is a very delicate scientific experiment, you know, that shows itself up in very minute statistics, but the implications are enormous, in other words, of how we think and how we feel and how we behave.
Would it be your view that these talents, psychic talents, Are long-forgotten or now developing?
Maybe both.
Certainly we don't, as a general rule, have them, but there's lots of anthropological work about the older and more so-called, to use the word in quotes, I wouldn't use it that way, primitive civilizations and the societies and the tribes, the Aborigines and the Bushmen of Africa and so on, they seem to have these Capacities still, and I mean, to them it's nothing very special.
They just have them.
We've lost them.
Maybe we're in the process of, of, of, um, reconnecting.
Yeah, well, it looks that way.
In other words, a lot of this stuff, hard to judge.
I mean, now everybody, you know, everyone, you know, your, your local friendly neighborhood trans channeler is summoning up beings and the Pleiades and stuff like that.
Now, I'm, I mean, I don't know how to take that.
With a grain of salt?
I just don't know.
I do.
I'm a little iffy on channeling.
I don't know either.
Let's go to the phone here and see what we've got.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Anthony West.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello.
Where are you?
This is Mike.
I'm back in Connecticut.
Yes, Mike.
I'd like to ask your guest if he's familiar with Richard Hoagland and some of his theories.
Yeah, very much so.
Sure.
Oh, really?
Really, really, and we all know he cut it.
Okay.
How do you view Richard's work?
In so many ways, particularly with the Cydonia region of Mars, how do you view that?
Well, there's been a ton of work done on Richard's work.
My feeling is that, obviously, I think Richard would be the first one to say so.
The final proof of the pudding is going to be another Mars shot, but actually with better photographs that says yes or no.
Until that happens, the evidence is now, and there have been a lot of very highly qualified people who have been working on this, the evidence is good enough.
So as far as I'm concerned, the burden of disproof is upon the opponent.
With that kind of strong statement in mind, don't you find it a little curious that NASA continually resists A closer examination of Cydonia, even if there is another Mars shot.
No, I don't find that a little bit surprising.
I'd be surprised if it were the opposite.
In other words, the establishment is always and invariably I mean, the history of everything is an establishment that doesn't want to change its mind for a variety of very interesting and deplorable psychological reasons.
So the fact that it gets out there at all is sort of amazing.
I mean, I'm quite frankly, I'm astonished.
We're talking about the Santilli Show before.
In a way, I'm amazed that it comes out into the open because, you know, it's quite clear that when all of this stuff went on in Roswell, I mean, anybody who thinks that the government, I mean, My immediate reaction on anything put out by the government is that it's not true.
Yes, I'm sorry to say I agree with that.
And so the fact that they let this stuff out, given, you know, if the government is willing to do radiation tests on 20,000 of our own citizens who didn't do anything.
Yes.
They're capable of anything, so in a way, it's sort of surprising that it gets out there at all, because, you know, who thinks this is a democracy?
All right, John, back to another call.
Okay.
West of the Rockies, you're on with John Anthony West.
Where are you, please?
I'm in Boise.
Boise, Idaho.
Okay, all right, go ahead.
Yeah, I made a statement earlier about the Egyptians not keeping track of history, and I think that was an inaccurate That's a great statement, because it was either the first or second Caesar, and they did hieroglyphs on, in one of the hieroglyphs, picturals about him going up into the heavens aboard a spaceship.
I want to know if he's heard of this, or... Who?
No, wait a minute, wait.
The first or the second Caesar?
Yeah.
Went up into the heavens in a spaceship?
Yeah.
No, wait, hold on.
One, if it's the first or the second Caesar we're talking about, Egypt, I mean, there's almost no Egypt left, because under the Romans, there's no independent Egypt.
The civilization of Egypt was still going on.
Oh, maybe it was the pharaoh then.
Yeah, but they're not... It's an interesting point, actually, because the pharaoh, after death, his soul goes, the exact language is, his soul becomes a star and travels across the sky.
In the company of Ra, who is basically the Sun, in his boat of millions of years.
Now, if you take this literally, that he went up there in a spaceship, you can do it that way.
But, you see, the hieroglyphs themselves, the translation is rather difficult.
Now, do they mean that symbolically?
In other words, that his spiritual body went up there?
Or do they mean it literally, that it went up there in a spaceship?
As we imagine our spiritual selves to travel forth.
Yeah, it's hard to say.
And look, the more I mean, if you asked me that question ten years ago, I'd have said, well, I just don't buy the actual, the physical side of things.
They're not talking about spaceships, they're talking about spiritual bodies.
I still actually believe that, but the evidence for extraterrestrial life, as far as I'm concerned, gets better and better.
So that's the same words that I would have said ten years ago are definitely spiritual.
I would now say, well, gee, that's not so sure anymore.
All right, from Mike in Seattle, please ask your guest to comment on the City of Thieves.
These people live near the pyramids, make a living by grave robbing and hacking statues to pieces and selling them about the world.
No, that's not the pyramid.
I think what you're probably talking about is the City of Thieves, if I'm...
There's a little village called Gourna, or Kourna, which is near the Valley of the Kings in Luxor, which is the other side of the Thebes.
T-A-P-B-E-S is the ancient Greek name for what's now Luxor.
And if that's what they're talking about, yes, those guys, over the course of the 20th century, had access to... They built their houses over old tombs and foraging about, came up with all kinds of...
You know, secret passageways, and they found old tombs that, in fact, the Egyptologist hadn't discovered.
Basically, back then, Egyptology was just grave robbing anyway.
And so they were chopping bits and things off and selling them on the antiquities market and so on.
That's what you're talking about, the City of Thieves.
That's the little village of Khornan near the Valley of the Kings.
All right, John.
Hold on.
Right back to you.
Many of you out there don't know there is a new Senate bill right now.
A new Senate bill, a real one.
Not a modern American myth, though discussion about the new money has been that for quite a while.
This, I'm sorry to say, is real.
A bill that will create a new money... Now to John Anthony West.
Here is a fax, John.
Some studiers of Egypt claim that by using the dimensions of the passages of the Great Pyramid, the stream of time can be revealed.
It was reported that by using the Royal Cubit as a measure, events in the past, like the birth of Christ, World War I,
were in fact foretold, and that the measurements will point to the end of the world.
Cease.
That's from Mike in San Jose.
Okay, yes.
Very familiar with the prophecies.
I must say, it's the sort of thing that's kind of hard to disprove because you can jiggle around the numbers and come up with all sorts of things.
My gut sense of the whole business is that I cannot lightly imagine why the ancient Egyptians should be interested in foretelling World War I or World War II or who wins the Super Bowl.
You know, what about the Buddhists and India and China and all the rest of it?
It simply doesn't seem, you know, what about Egyptian history?
They don't seem to have the birth of Mohammed in there or the British conquest of Egypt.
It's just It seems to me a very Eurocentric way of looking at the Pyramid to do something that I don't think the Pyramid was designed to do.
But as I've said, I'm willing enough to be proved wrong, but by jiggling around with those passages, it really is one of those instances where you can make the numbers do anything you want.
And at the same time, the numbers are very significant in the Pyramid.
Yes.
Well, that's what I was going to ask, John.
Very simply, what were the Pyramids designed for?
Well, again, since they never told us, we have to deduce it.
Now, my sense of it is that these really are gigantic, technological, spiritual instruments.
I think that they are designed to facilitate a To facilitate getting into certain states of higher consciousness, which is, I think, quite frankly, what I think we're on this earth for.
I mean, we're... What Shvala Dilubic, who worked out the, what I call, the Symbolist Interpretation of Egypt, which is my basic interest.
We haven't got around to talking much about what all of this knowledge means and where it leads us, but my sense is that what Egypt was talking about was The attainment of a higher state of consciousness that is, in effect, not subject to time or design.
And I think that the pyramid, not just the Great Pyramid, but the other pyramids on the Giza Plateau and the Dark Shore, are in some way or another designed to put people who've done their homework and are suitably prepared into an altered state of consciousness where they actually have these experiences.
I know myself.
Well, can I just... Yes, you may.
I mean, you know, I lead trips to Egypt all the time.
Most of my living comes out of leading trips to Egypt.
And we always do a meditation session in the King's Chamber of the Great Pyramid.
Yes.
And there are very few people who come out of that unmoved.
And I've been in there on a number of occasions with people who were deeply skeptical and didn't want to know.
And they were moved, too.
In other words, they were not prepared.
You know, lots of people go in there expecting something brilliant, and then they get something brilliant.
Or unusual, and just a self-fulfilling prophecy.
You get people in there who are determined not to experience anything, and they come out shaken and moved.
Well, that's something else altogether.
So I think that the purpose of the pyramids is... When the Egyptians talk about, you know, the pharaoh, that question that came at me just before, of going in a spaceship to decide, well, I don't think it's a spaceship so much.
Um, a physical spaceship.
I really do believe that the pyramids are designed in order to give us access to these, to these higher conscious or spiritual states symbolized by the stars.
Alright, we're at our break point here, John.
My interruption, and I'm sorry I interrupted you, was to ask you whether that higher state of consciousness, Have any parallels to what Mr. Monroe at the Monroe Institute has been teaching for so long?
And we'll take that up when we get back.
How long will we be, by the way, can I ask?
You've got about 7 minutes.
Oh, great.
Alright, we'll be right back.
This is CBC.
Mexico and so on, mainly Mexico, are certainly newer than the ones in Egypt and there.
They use a very different geometry in mathematics, and yet there are numerical relationships.
My sense of it is that both of them... There's not a direct connection, I think.
Between Egypt and that earlier pre-Mayan or pre-Mayan civilization, but I think both probably stem from a common source, which I think is that Atlantean civilization that went down around 10,000 BC, because there are enough parallels in the way that they use geometry and mathematics It makes me think that the same order of knowledge is there, but not a direct connection.
In other words, ancient Egyptians didn't go over and colonize Mexico, and then subsequently built their pyramids in a totally different way, even though they're pyramids.
All right.
One more, and then back to the phone.
Please ask your guest how he views the work of Zacharias Sitchin.
It seems very relevant to his area of expertise.
That's from Portland.
Okay.
Well, it's sort of relevant.
I think Fitchin, I think Fitchin is, is definitely on to something, um, with, I mean, particularly in, in dating the pyramids and the Sphinx is older and so on.
Um, his extraterrestrial contact, uh, theory, I think probably has something to it too.
However, um, See, I'm not a Sumeriologist and an Asteriologist, so when he's talking about Sumeria and Asteria, I'm not in a position to argue.
However, when he's talking about Egypt, it seems to me, without going into specifics here, we don't have enough time on a radio show, it seems to me that he's making the data conform to what he wants us to say.
Beyond that, He's effectively what I call a galactic materialist.
In other words, the beings from outer space as it were are just smarter and even more malignant people than ourselves, and have colonized us to be slaves to them, and there is no higher consciousness, there is no meaning, there is no destiny.
And quite frankly, though I respect his work in many ways, I find his philosophy and his conclusions repellent.
Perhaps so, but is it not consistent with history that the strong, the intelligent, those with technology enslave the weak, one way or the other?
Yes and no.
For a while, yes.
Ultimately, I'm not so sure.
Well, maybe there is no ultimately, but in any given... For the time being?
Yeah, but sometimes there are periods where really it isn't just masses enslaved.
You know, there are certain periods, ancient Egypt at least for quite a long period of time, Buddhist Asia for at least a few hundred years.
There are periods of real civilization where it isn't all dog-eat-dog.
Not many, but they're there.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Anthony West.
Hi.
Hi, this is Karen in Houston.
How are you and John?
Hello, how are you?
Fine, fine.
I've got a little response to your question about the evolution of mankind.
Yes.
Speaking from personal experience, I think that can be gauged, and again it has to be on the individual basis, on the level of answer given to questions asked.
When you continually have answers coming to questions that You know, or just sort of not in the norm, then you go, wow, okay.
And if it's forward progress, then that's great.
I can give you an example out again.
All right.
I had a family member in whom I was talking once, well, rather deeply with, about a family problem.
And in order to get a dramatic response from him, a yes or a no, I had to word a question I had to ask about another family
member and say it in such a way that I would get the right response from the heart is
what I was looking for.
And so I had to be a bit abrupt and curt but I said it and then the person sat very calmly
but this dark brown eyed person his eyes flashed blue and then he was very calm and serene
and instead of getting a very verbal answer back he was very quiet and got up and walked
out of the room and came back and his whole personality had changed.
I've never seen this happen before where the brown eyes turned blue but I knew there was something that was emitted there in response and so several days later I happened to pick up a book Oh yeah.
Excuse me, dear.
How do you relate this to my guest?
And in the heart of the book, I opened it and I just happened to open it right straight
to the heart of the book, the middle of the book.
And he has a chapter in there on observations on the eye.
And I'm reading through this and I'm not looking for it.
Excuse me, dear.
How do you relate this to my guest?
Okay, the evolution of things from the spirit and all this, okay.
Nikola Tesla had an associate who said that even in the broadest of daylight that once
the intellect is triggered and you go straight to the what would be the heart of the soul
and the mind, that there would be a point for an instant, even in the brightest day,
you will see a flash of energy in the eye.
Alright, well thank you.
Crystal Gale sang about brown eyes turning blue too.
Any response to that?
Make anything out of that more than I did?
No, it was very interesting, but it's not actually germane to the question of Evolution, or has there been, or hasn't there been?
I mean, it's interesting in the sense that there are moments of higher consciousness, and if that reflects in eyes that are brown, turning blue, well, so be it.
Do you think that, arguably, there are more moments now of increased consciousness, or fewer?
And in our great technological civilization, boy, we've got cellular phones, television, we've got the internet, we've got the web, we've got all of this.
Is this Masking it, and hiding it, and causing us to not raise our level of consciousness, as we should in quiet contemplation, and obscuring a message that we ought to be getting right now?
Good question.
Actually, yes and no, I would say.
The technology in and of itself is deadening.
In other words, anything that does something for you that you don't do yourself, You know, a power mower doesn't build up muscle, but a push mower does.
Anything that the machine does for you is something you're not doing yourself.
On the other hand, suddenly there is access to the whole world of knowledge.
Stuff that absolutely... I mean, a hundred years ago, things weren't available at all.
I mean, you just couldn't find them.
Now, a press of a button puts you in touch with A whole world of stuff that simply wasn't available before.
So in other words, if technology is understood as not a means, an end in itself, but a means toward an end, I mean I'm, from being sort of a, really a neo-Luddite myself 30 years ago, I've now become pretty technophiliac in the sense that, I mean I really think that the stuff is there to be used, and if it's used intelligently, it does open means of doing things.
Still, anything that's of any value is something that you have to do yourself.
No machine will teach you to play the violin or do a martial art.
So you're not saying... Anything that's of value.
You're not saying good or evil, you're saying both.
I'm not... I'm saying actually neither.
In other words, it's a means toward an end.
If it's used intelligently, it facilitates things.
But if it's simply something... I mean, obviously...
What's communicated is what counts.
If rubbish is communicated, well, then that's what you're going to get.
I mean, what did I say?
What is it?
Garbage in, garbage out.
That's what they say.
But nevertheless, as a means of accessing information, it's brilliant.
However, information is just information.
It's not understanding, and understanding isn't wisdom.
The machine isn't going to give you wisdom.
Only study and work.
Lots of stuff that's going to give you wisdom.
Alright, let's go back to the phones.
First time caller line, you're on the air with John Anthony West.
Hi.
You know, in The Secret of the Great Pyramid, he discusses in that book that once the pyramids were faced with granite stone and perhaps coated with a gold film and topped with a crystal, and I just wonder if If your guest has any information on that.
All right, that's a good question.
Where are you, by the way?
California.
California, all right.
Hold on a minute.
Secret to the Great Pyramid, Peter Tompkins' book?
Yes.
I don't know who he's talking about there that says, one, it wasn't faced with ground, it's faced with limestone.
That's anyway the Great Pyramid.
Nobody sure that it's thought that the very top of it, the Pyramidion, as it's called, I just wondered if you had any information on that.
of gold and silver. Yes. Now the question was, would that what? Repeat the question
again. Well I just wondered if you had any information on that. I guess the assumption
was that it was at one time some form of radio, for lack of a better word, radio transmitter.
Hard to say. Certainly it was once a radio transmitter.
I mean, it had a, you know, perfect coating of limestone.
The top of it may well have had, you know, gold or silver or crystal.
Some people think.
Nobody knows.
There's no evidence.
It's gone.
How about a broader definition as conductor of some sort of energy?
Yeah, that, you know, as I said, I mean, it is, in my understanding, it's hard to imagine, particularly when you're inside the thing.
It doesn't feel like a temple, and it doesn't feel like a tomb.
It feels like an absolutely fabulous technological instrument of some sort that has a tremendous emotional impact.
You see, if you go inside any of our technology, it's pretty impressive, but it doesn't move you.
When you get inside the pyramid, you feel like you're in the inside of a symphony.
It's very difficult to describe.
I mean, everybody has this sense.
So, yes, it's an instrument, transmitter, Transducer?
A condenser?
Receiver?
What, a receiver?
Who knows?
But it has this profound effect, and when you go into that King's Chamber, or any of the other chambers, and go quiet, get into a meditative state, you can't do it when there's a whole bunch of people around, like listening to Bach when you're in the middle of the Super Bowl.
When you go in there and you really listen, you get hit with something Inexplicable.
And almost everybody gets hit.
I think the only way you don't get hit is if you're dead inside.
If you're really dead, you probably do get hit.
I think that's what they were used for.
So yes, they're instruments.
Whether or not they're, you know, in the sense of our radio transmitter or something like that, who knows?
But they certainly serve some kind of incredible technological function that we don't really understand.
That we're just beginning to understand.
All right.
All right, John, hold it right there.
We'll...
Now to my guest. We've only got about a minute before the bottom of the hour,
so a quick question from somewhere out east of the Rockies.
Where are you, sir?
Yes, I'm in Montana.
Well, you're on the air with John Anthony West.
Yeah, John, this is Transformer from Montana.
I get the Scallion newsletter, and recently he had a thing about the Pyramid being a time machine.
It was a large crystal It's hard to say, actually.
I mean, in a sense, I would agree it is some sort of a time machine, but it depends on what sense you mean.
A crystal that's movable?
We don't know about a crystal there.
Is it there?
Was it there?
Impossible to say.
I simply can't There's no answer to questions like that until, from my point of view, until you can actually demonstrate it.
All right, your sense is, though, that I think you said in the next three or four year time period there will be great new discoveries?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure there will be, actually.
I mean, our work is very, in a way, even though it kind of blows all of history out the window, it's very orthodox.
It's geology and geophysics and very hard-nosed science.
Of course, if we find the object, if we get into that chamber between the paws of the Franks, and we actually find something that the opposition cannot deny, that in and of itself blows all of history out.
Blows all of history out.
All right, well, there's a good line to hang on.
We are at the break point.
You've got about four minutes.
We'll be right back.
This is Dreamland.
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Now again, here's Art Bell.
The only number not given there was the east of the Rockies number anywhere.
code 702, 727-1295, 727-1295 in the 702 area code.
Now again, here's Art Bell.
The only number not given there was the east of the Rockies number anywhere.
It's 1-800-825-5033.
That's 1-800-825-5033.
The 818CS radio by Sanjean is arguably the best radio for the money.
You can spend about $300 more and get a marginal improvement, but for the money, if you want it, it's 3.
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3 1-800-522-8863. Back to our guest now, an Egyptologist, Smyth West. John, just before
we take any more calls, I assume you haven't done it, so I'm going to try and make you
You've probably got books.
I know you've got a book.
You've got videotapes.
I do, indeed.
So, if somebody wants more info or wants to order your book or videotapes, how do they do it?
Well, I'm glad you asked that question, Art, because I didn't want to inject it into the thing and sound as though I were promoting myself.
I understand.
However, yeah, sure, of course, they're available.
The best way to do it is, there's an 800 number, which is 800-508-0558.
That's 800-508-0558, and ask for operator A, and then they know where the call comes from.
Right.
And there you can get either of my books, That Serpent in the Sky, which is Symbolist Egypt, everything that we've been talking about.
The Case for Astrology, which is all of the evidence that says there really is something to it.
Uh, the video, of course, which is the, you know, the thing I won the Emmy for with Charlton Heston.
And this is the expanded version, which is an hour and a half, which has a lot of the much more speculative stuff that we couldn't get on network television.
That has the Mars stuff with Richard Hoagland and the Edgar Cayce stuff and a lot of things that aren't, that weren't on the, on the one hour show.
And then if you want information about my trips, Say that's what you want, and they'll put you onto where you get the trip information.
How much, John, is the videotape?
Videotape is, I think, I'm not sure, it's either $24.95 or $29.95.
Alright, sure.
One or the other, what's the budget?
They can find out.
1-800-1800-5080558.
Operator A, as in Alpha.
They can find out. 1-800-508-0558. Operator A as in Alpha.
Thank you.
Okay, good.
And I hope you get lots of orders.
Well, I hope I do.
West of the Rockies?
No, I think East.
You're on with John Anthony West.
Hi.
Hello.
We're Mark from Collinsville on satellite.
Collinsville, Illinois.
All right.
Yes, great guest.
John, I've had your book for a couple years.
Thanks.
My prized possession.
I don't loan it out.
And I wish you would have elaborated more on the Tornadoroo in there, but it's a great book.
Yeah.
You said you're interested in astrology.
Yes.
And that one previous caller mentioned such.
Now you're right on one thing about his, he's a little scattered on the Egyptian stuff.
But he mentions the placement of the planets and stars and that.
And Art mentioned earlier about Halba.
And word has it from people that work on the Hubble that this thing is a planet.
And, uh, where'd you get that, please?
What, the comet, you mean?
No, no, no, no, no.
This caller said that, uh, somebody working with a Hubble has indicated this is a planet.
Where'd you get that?
What you're calling a comet?
Yes, sir.
A comet.
Yeah.
I can call in a couple nights and give you a recording.
Yeah?
And maybe take it further.
But that is the word from one person that's working on the Hubble.
All right.
And it's in a thing that's 3,000 miles across.
Uh-huh.
It seems like something, you know, like Halley's Comet, that comes through every, I don't know how often.
Wouldn't something this big have come through before?
Oh, yes.
We've got to sort of think about that last section again.
There are present estimates of 2,000 to 3,000 year repetition.
Yeah, it's not impossible.
I mean, Pluto is, whatever it is, 360 some odd years, and they never would have discovered Pluto.
Without, you know, without fairly major telescopes.
So yes, I mean, that's not the part of... I have no argument about that.
In other words, that's there to be demonstrated.
I mean, I can't say yes and no.
As far as Sitchin is concerned, it's his materialistic philosophy that I'm opposed to, plus the fact that when it gets to Egypt, he's fudging sometimes.
I mean, he's taking data and It's not difficult to do this in scholarship, and unless you're really deeply involved with the subject, it looks as though it's bona fide.
And if you know the text that he's talking about well enough, you can say, well, no, he's twisting it to make it do this and that.
Tsiolkovsky does the same sort of thing.
But of course, so do the absolutely orthodox people.
They're doing it all the time.
What about John Anthony West?
I try not to, but if somebody comes up and says, well, yes, you're fudging it here, or you're making it conform to your own specifications, I'm usually prepared to argue it out, because I'm very conscious of how easy it is to do that.