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Aug. 21, 1995 - Art Bell

02:54:51

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - 95,000 Junk Mail Check - Patrick Combs

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01:24:19

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unidentified		Welcome to Arch Bells Somewhere Inside.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast A.M. from August 21st, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, radiating on out to the Tahitian Islands, the Hawaiian Islands, all the way east to the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, and north magnetic north.
		Welcome, everybody, to Coast to Coast again.
		Another random week of live overnight talk radio underway.
		We make room for a little fun tonight.
		Uses heavy and light, depending on your point of view, from a point of view, heavy from a light loss point of view.
		A computer, uh, computers online, a computer plane crashed, as you know.
		Uh, we now know four dead, five more injured, twenty-five more women.
		Atlantic Southeast Airlines twin-engine commuter plane went down in rural western Georgia Monday.
		Many of the injured are in critical condition with severe burns.
		The pilot, who died after being trapped in the cockpit, had reported engine trouble shortly before it went down.
		Again, staying with the subject of death, three U.S. diplomats killed in Bosnia over the weekend, not shot, but tumbling over in a vehicle, came home Monday in flag-draped caskets.
		Our Secretary of State did what he does best and did the diplomatic thing, led a delegation of cabinet officers and paid tribute.
		So it was purely an auto accident, actually.
		In Israel, more death.
		And here you've got to wonder if the terrorists have not had what they want.
		Finally, Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin has put peace talks with the PLO on hold temporarily as a result of Monday's terrorist attack in Jerusalem.
		A suicide bomber from the militant Islamic Hamas movement killed four, including, I might add, an American tourist.
		It occurred in the morning rush hour bus traffic, and it is attributed to students of the mechanic, the guy they've been looking for for so long now.
		So, temporary hold on peace talks.
		Earlier in the day, they had been saying nothing will disturb the peace talks.
		We're not going to allow this to occur.
		Now, it looks like it may.
		It is precisely what those who are setting off the bombs want.
		So I guess they're going to get it.
		On the other hand, there is not peace.
		So if you are an Israeli citizen, you're probably pretty ticked off right now, pretty angry, because your leadership continues to talk peace with the people that are killing your fellow citizens.
		Now, it's a pretty weird psychology, and I'm not surprised that they've shut them down.
		NASA is going to privatize.
		Yes, NASA is moving to privatize its space shuttle program.
		NASA says it expects to select a single contractor to operate the $3.2 billion a year program.
		They think this will save a billion dollars.
		And I wonder how many of you would like to be on the first shuttle flight to be done by the lowest bidder.
		I'd be some sitting up there on top of that thing.
		Wondering where the lowest bidder might have cut corners.
		Any of you who are good at making top 10 lists ought to give me, send me a top 10 list, I'm sure somebody will, about why you would not want to be on, or why you would want to be on, the first shuttle flight done by lowest bidder.
		Gvorkian, present at another suicide, a 46-year-old woman, has taken her own life.
		It says here, critically or terminally ill.
		However, there are those who are suggesting she was not terminally ill.
		Certainly she was in a great deal of pain.
		Said she was tired of being a bed veg.
		Time to say, see ya.
		That was her note.
		Carbon monoxide poisoning.
		The 25th person to die with Kvorki in there.
		Here's an interesting story.
		Traditional Chinese medicines appear to have the Zrouters, by the way, appear to have the ability to direct alcohol through the digestive system before it can be absorbed into the bloodstream, thus actually preventing intoxication.
		That's what Japanese scientists reported Monday in Chicago during the annual meeting of the American Chemical Society.
		They say the bark and roots of the angelica tree, the plant ovary of the soapberry camellia, and horse chestnut seeds, good lord, and the roots of the Seneca snake root appear to do the trick.
		Sounds like something a witch would make up, doesn't it?
		But listen to this.
		They say, with these substances, no matter how much you drink, it doesn't matter, you can't get drunk.
		The effect, however, has been tested so far only on laboratory rats.
		But wouldn't that be something to give that little witch's brew to some of the hopelessly drunk, inebriated?
		Can you imagine?
		They just buy it and buy it and buy it and drink it and drink it and drink it and nada.
		Nothing happens.
		I guess that would give you up.
		Better than the patch, huh?
		Iraq.
		We believe, of course, Saddam is, we say, preparing to make military moves.
		We are moving troops now, as well as two aircraft carriers.
		And I would ask whether you think this is a real crisis, or are we, as in the CIA, shaking Saddam's tree, hoping he'll fall out?
		There are reports late tonight of one of the men in Jordan, one of Saddam's top men, saying there is about to be a coup in Iraq.
		And Bill of Vista, California wonders, if the enemy of my enemy is my friend, does that mean we join Iraq and bomb Jordan?
	No, Bill, I don't think so, but I understand the thought.
	They're going after Franklin D. Roosevelt.
	As you know, Roosevelt is widely seen in profile with the long cigarette holder in his mouth.
	Well, don't you know, in today's atmosphere, that's going to be a problem.
	And so they want to remove the cigarette holder from Franklin Roosevelt's mouth.
	Should it be removed?
	Should history be rewritten, revised?
	I guess that's the way it is these days.
	If something becomes politically incorrect, you simply erase it, so it never happened.
	O.J. Simpson, the subject of Brinkley on Sunday, the Furman tapes, Central, of course.
	Racist, violent, chilling, even frightening.
	Johnny Cochran accused the media of literally being racist because he says it favors the two white victims.
	F. Lee Bailey was on Brinkley, and I thought he was quite good.
	And you recall the line, the famous line, F. Lee Bailey, quote, you say on your oath, Detective Furman, that you have not spoken of black people as the N-word in the last ten years, end quote.
	Well, of course, he claims he didn't know about the tapes when he asked the question.
	That's hard to believe, but some of the stuff supposedly on the tapes is really, really bad.
	Now, there's a late problem with the tapes, and I'm not exactly clear on what the story is.
	Now, I've heard that the most important tape, the first one, has been erased.
	But then there was somebody on CNN midday who said, oh no, while that tape was erased, the original was not, and we've still got that.
	Meanwhile, Judge Ito ruled that the whole brief filed to allow the tapes in was incoherent, that he couldn't understand it, and he kicked it back to them, and they're having to rewrite it.
	By the way, kind of a side note here, the L.A. City Council just paid $100,000 to a plaintiff for a judgment against, guess who?
	Mark Fuhrman.
	For guess what?
	You got it.
	Excessive force.
	By the way, Bailey says if OJ goes on the stand, it's going to add about a month to the case.
	Otherwise, look for two or three more weeks of the case, I would say now.
	Got this one over the internet.
	Hi, Art.
	My name is Randy, and I omit the last name.
	I'm a police officer in the Seattle area and have been for 15 years.
	In December, I resigned because of the very things that you've been talking about on your show these past few days.
	I could go on forever about the problems in LE today, but the essence is this.
	Cops are just people.
	People who get very little respect anymore, are not paid enough, are subject to the corrupt political system.
	People who are not at all the cream of the crop.
	They're not usually very well educated.
	They're usually underachievers, and they have their own self-esteem issues.
	What I'm saying is there are good ones, bad ones, like everyone else.
	Just like any other group, we cannot be lumped into any one category.
	Trust me, the world is not going to come to an end because of a few dirty cops.
	There have always been a few dirty cops.
	No, I'm not lazy about this.
	Remember, I quit to get away from it.
	I spent years trying to fix things and be a good cop.
	Guess what?
	No one wanted a good cop.
	People who do not want to know what the problems are or how to fix them, they just want to pretend they do not exist.
	You know, that's interesting.
	The second part of his facts Appears to, in effect, contradict the first part.
	In other words, in the beginning, he says, Well, there's only a few good cops.
	Then he goes on to say, But I quit because I was one of those few, or a few bad cops, and I quit because I was one of the few, and there are a lot of bad ones, so I don't know what to make out of that.
	Nuclear proliferation, that's a hard word, proliferation.
	Senator Luger on the weekend, holding hearings this week, said a couple of things that you ought to think about.
	He said, quote, the gravest threat to the U.S. is the proliferation of nuclear weapons.
	Okay, a lot of people say that.
	But then he said of the Russians that highly enriched uranium is now coming out of Russian labs.
	The market is there.
	There are willing buyers.
	And then he said this, quote, terrorists will use this material and square miles of American cities will be vaporized, end quote.
	Now that's pretty rough.
	That's Senator Luger over the weekend.
	Terrorists will use this material and square miles of American cities are going to be vaporized.
	What do you think about that?
	What's to think?
	Hope it's somebody else's city, I guess, huh?
	Nothing much you can do about it.
	The genie is way, and for a long time now, out of the bottle.
unidentified		The After Dark newsletter was started by Art Bell back in 1995, and it's still going strong 13 years later.
		Call right now to subscribe.
		It's $39.95 for one year and contains a variety of different subjects every month, just like we do here on Coast to Coast AM.
		There are stories about the supernatural, strange science, human oddities.
		Plus, you'll find interviews with frequent guests, my monthly column, and much more.
		Call 188-727-5505 or go online at CoastToCoastAM.com.
		Here's some exciting news for Coast to Coast fans.
		If you're already a Streamlink member, you know what a super value our subscriber service is.
		For around 15 cents a day, you get such great features as Podcast.
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		But now, we've greatly expanded our full show library, so you have access to multi-year downloads.
		Imagine having hundreds of your favorite Coast to Coast shows right at your fingertips to listen to, collect, and take on the go with you.
		As a Streamlink member, you also get access to a whole library of Art Bell classic Somewhere in Time shows, available as streamed broadcasts.
		Plus, our fun live chat sessions held twice a month.
		There's never been a better time to join Streamlink.
		Visit CoastToCoastAM.com today to sign up on our secure servers.
		Here's what you missed on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
		Is this a plan to break us here in this country and make the entire planet on a more even keel?
g edward griffin ▲ ● ▼		I definitely think it is.
		I mean, the people that are making these moves, they give speeches on it, they teach it in school.
		You know, this business of redistribution of the wealth, destruction of national sovereignty, these things have been written about and talked openly about for quite a while.
		And that's what they're trying to create for the United States.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of August 21st, 1995, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Politics over the weekend.
		Haley Barber, the RNC chairman, and Don Fowler, the DNC chairman, squared off on Meet the Press.
		Now, it was all about the straw poll.
		Oh, this is interesting.
		Here are the results.
		Let me give them to you of the straw poll in Iowa.
		Dole, 24%.
		Graham, a dead tie, 24%.
		Followed by Buchanan, a respectable 18%.
		Lamar Alexander, Alan Keys, Morray Taylor.
		Richard Luger behind Morray Taylor.
		And finally, Pete Wilson at 1%.
		Now, what can we draw from this?
		Yes, it was just a straw poll, but boy, we can draw an awful lot of conclusions.
		Number one, Robert Dole, as I told you, is not as strong as he thought he was, or people thought he was, or the press thought he was.
		Does this mean that Phil Graham, who got up even with Bob Dole, is then the obvious frontrunner?
		Well, in a way, just because he tied Dole, in my mind, anyway, it makes him the present front runner, but it doesn't say much.
		I am not wild.
		Actually, let me see.
		I like Bob Dole and I like Phil Graham.
		And I don't think either one of them are the right people to run against Bill Clinton.
		Buchanan I like, but I'm not, but I worry.
		You know, I just, there are a lot of things about Pat that are simply too much for me, isolationism, most particularly.
		Lamar Alexander, Alan Keyes.
		Alan Keyes and nice guy, but 8%.
		Maury Taylor, Richard Luger, Pete Wilson.
		I told you Pete Wilson wasn't going to do much, and he did not.
		So I'm not excited about any of the present field.
		Everybody in the poll, of course, came out and put the best face on it said we're happy so what does this mean that i was right about the media hyping dole that he is not the frontrunner everybody thinks he is does this mean graham is strong or just that dole is not now there is a better way to put it that's the way i put it that graham is not strong it's just that dole is not pat buchanan definitely
		stronger than most people thought, but still a long shot.
		Bradley looking as though he's going to make an independent run.
		And the straw poll, of course, very interesting.
		Why was Bob Dole so weak?
		You know, I would say because he's weak.
		Why was Graham so strong?
		I would say he's not.
		He's just looks pretty good compared to Dole.
		is buchanan strong enough do we need a new candidate have both parties lost touch with us as uh senator bradley said could an independent win and what would happen to the two big political parties in america should we elect a third party candidate did you know that recent surveys show uh the u.s uh people in
		the u.s by a margin of two to one want a third political party by the way does anybody out there know what has happened to the republican 11th commandment the one that says we shall not criticize other republicans right down the drain i would say more news and a couple of fascinating items in just a moment you're listening to art bells somewhere in time on
unidentified		premier radio networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 21st, 1995.
		Thank you.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 21st, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting fact about the Citadel in South Carolina.
		Forty percent of all the CEOs, heads of corporations in South Carolina, are alumnis of the Citadel.
		Shannon, of course, is not.
		Sam Donaldson over the weekend said she's a heroine.
		And here somebody has sent me the top ten reasons Shannon Faulkner quit the Citadel.
		Ten, she only wanted the uniforms for Rush Limbaugh's feminazi movement.
		Nine, she wanted to move to Idaho and live with Mark Furman, where she could live off the eggs people throw at their house.
		Eight, she developed severe mental stress trying to figure out how to use the urinal in her dorm room.
		Seven, after spending the last two and a half years and millions of dollars of other people's money in court trying to get admitted to the Academy, she figured she's now qualified to join O.J. Simpson's dream team.
		Six, after her teary resignation press conference in the rain, She was offered a position as a test pilot for Tammy Faye Baker's all-weather mascara.
		Five, after spending $25,000 to remodel a dorm room specifically for her, she was told there wasn't enough money left to buy her a set of Richard Simmons deal-a-meal cards.
unidentified		Hmm, cruel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Four, she got tired of telling her classmates her name was Shannon, not Shampoo.
		Three, she lost the key to her dorm room, the only lockable dorm room at the Academy.
		It fell out of its secret hiding place.
		The crease in her double chin.
unidentified		Cruel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Two, with her newfound fame, she wanted to work on her autobiography and soon to be made into a movie book entitled The Thing That Wouldn't Go Away.
		And one, Senator Packwood made her an offer she could not refuse.
		Now to the story of Patrick Combs.
		This was reported by NBC last night.
		And I was so amazed that I called Patrick Combs on the phone.
		Got his machine.
		And you never know.
		We may hear from Patrick tonight or tomorrow.
		But here is Patrick's story.
		You know the junk mail.
		If you've been living in a place long enough, you begin to get a lot of junk mail.
		I get it.
		Most of us get it.
		You know the kind where you see a check with your name, usually it shows through a little clear screen.
		spot in the envelope and you can just see a check in there and you go yes but it's one of those offers you know and inside the check says this could be yours um this could be your check only in little tiny print somewhere it says non-negotiable it's a big come-on you've all seen them well patrick combs Of San Francisco thought, what the hell?
		So he took the check just for the fun of it, he says, like depositing monopoly money, he says, and deposited the check in his checking account.
		Now, bear in mind, he did not sign it, he did not endorse it, he just put it in the deposit envelope and put it in the first interstate ATM there in San Francisco.
		Well, guess what?
		They honored the check.
		He was sure some teller would look at this and laugh.
		The teller looked at it and put $95,093.35 in his account.
		He freaked out.
		He called the bank, but the bank, over a period of several days, apparently insisted that it was in his account, his money.
		So, in frustration, he drew the money out of the bank and got a cashier's check for $95,000 in change and put it in a safety deposit box.
		Then a couple of days later, the bank realized what they had done and went, oops, and they came to him and demanded it back.
		Well, he has not given it back yet.
		Now, he says he might give it back.
		All he wants is the bank president to call him up and say, let's go to lunch.
		Not a big demand, I suppose.
		Thus far, no comment from First Interstate.
		Now, I'm not an attorney.
		But I wonder what an attorney would say.
		Now, he didn't sign the check.
		It's the bank's mistake.
		I suppose legally he's got to give it back, the more I think about it.
		No way he could keep it, is there?
		Or could he?
		Is it the bank's error, legally?
		I would tend to say he's probably got to give it back.
		And I would also tend to say that he deserves having lunch with the president of the bank up there at First Interstate.
		They're a good bank.
		They're my bank.
		I wonder how many other people now will try this.
		I wonder what happened to the teller who put $90 some odd thousand dollars in somebody's account without looking at the check very carefully, without seeing an endorsement on the back.
		Boy.
		What a mess, huh?
		Anybody catch the Tyson-McNeely fight, not me?
		89 seconds it lasted.
		Shorter than the national anthem that preceded it.
		McNeely gets $500,000.
		Tyson, $25 million.
		The people seem to be very angry.
		I wonder if this kind of thing will end boxing altogether.
		All right, well, there you are.
		I've got a call in to Patrick Combs, the guy who put the check in the bank.
		And if we hear from him, we will put him on the air.
		That would be, I think, fun.
		In the meantime, here we go.
		West of the Rockies, you're number one on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Mr. Bell.
unidentified		This is Earl from Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Earl.
unidentified		How's it going?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Yeah, great.
		Hey, first-time caller, long-time listener.
		Really enjoy your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I don't know.
unidentified		I guess I just wanted to say hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, that's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See you later, sir.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bye-bye.
		Wanted to see if you could get through, huh?
		They think that they have found Noah's Ark.
		I was going to mention this.
		I was going to hold this, but I won't.
		They think they've found Noah's Ark on Mount Ararat.
		This story was on Encounters last night.
		By the way, the promo at the end of Encounters, Eric, who sent me facts from Grants Pass on the alien autopsy footage, is indeed the Roswell supposed film, or is it Roswell?
		Whatever it is, yes, they were promoing that on the 28th.
		You're not going to want to miss it.
		At any rate, they think they found Noah's Ark on Mount Ararat.
		It occurred after a May 15th, 1948 earthquake.
		That was the day of the birth of the nation of Israel, by the way.
		A military satellite found it with a surveillance photo, and you can quite clearly see it.
		It is a ship.
		An archaeologist is just about to begin digging to dig it up.
		He is the archaeologist who was used as the model for Indiana Jones in all the Indiana Jones movies.
		So they're going to begin to dig up the ark.
		Now get this, folks.
		It's larger than the Queen Mary.
		The odds of it being anything in nature, as they look at the satellite photographs, the odds of it being anything formed by nature are about 100,000 to 1.
		What if this really is the Ark?
		What if it is evidence of what once occurred to the world before?
unidentified		What if it is evidence of what once occurred to the world before?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What if it really is the Ark?
		How will it change the world, the way people view the world?
		Do you think it will?
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yeah, my first name is Dave.
		I'm from Kansas City, Missouri.
		Short-term listener, I just got turned on by my uncle the other night, and I heard a conversation about, say, aliens creating the human race.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		I'd like to maybe throw some ideas around about that with you.
		I don't know.
		You seem to be a pretty firm believer of that.
		I don't know.
		What do you think?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're a firm believer, you say?
unidentified		I'm a very firm believer, because uh I pretty much believe that aliens have been visiting this planet for like longer than humans have been around, of course, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you believe that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What evidence do you see?
unidentified		Well, like the abductions that we have, evidence of recently, you know, people saying aliens are always tampering with their genitals and such.
unidentified		Who knows what kinds of experiments, you know, they have been performing in their labs or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
unidentified		I mean, it took like 10 million years from a horse to get from the size of a dog to the size of it is now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And just throwing some fingers around like 2 million years for the human to evolve from extraterrestrial visitation at all.
		I'm just not sure.
		If you meant to ask whether I believe...
		I would say I continue to investigate it, but I have seen even I really haven't seen anything that would cause me to say I believe.
		So that's your answer.
		Even though I'm sure a lot of people out there have other ideas, even though I investigate intensely things in this area, do I believe, as an article of faith, we're being visited?
		No.
		I don't.
		Does that surprise you?
		Any more than I would say I believe or have faith in other things that I cannot put my hand on yet.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Say, you said the other night that you were finishing up your book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is true.
unidentified		Well, sir, I have a suggestion.
		Saturday nights are very boring.
		So if you come up with a new show on witchcraft, you can call it Bell Book and Candle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bell booking.
unidentified		And liven up our lives a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, have me work the seventh day.
unidentified		You enjoy it, Aunt.
unidentified		You enjoy it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, I know, but you can get too much of a good thing in seven days a week, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Basically, my comment is.
unidentified		I love it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I like your title, sir.
		A bell book and candle.
		And, you know, I'm going to do something on witchcraft.
		But I want a witch.
		I want a witch.
		I've got a bulletin here, and we will hold this until the top of the hour.
		Yes, we'll hold this to the top of the hour.
		Should I promo it?
		No.
		We'll just hold it.
		I think I've got a surprise coming for you at the top of the hour.
unidentified		see.
		You've been hearing about the After Dark newsletter for years.
		It was started by Art Bell back in 1995, and it's still going strong 13 years later.
		Ever wonder what's in it?
		Call right now to subscribe.
		It's $39.95 for one year and contains a variety of different subjects every month, just like we do here on Coast to Coast AM.
		Writers from all over the United States pitch in with stories about the supernatural, strange science, human oddities.
		Plus, you'll find interviews with frequent guests, my monthly column, and much more including information about each show that ran in the past month.
		Give it a try by calling toll-free, 188-727-5505.
		That's 1888-727-5505.
		The lines are open right now, even in the middle of the night.
		Or sign up online at www.coastocoastam.com.
		Click through the orange type to that secure server.
		That's coasttocasam.com or 188-727-5505.
		Here's what you missed on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		Is this a plan to break us here in this country and make the entire planet on a more even keel?
g edward griffin ▲ ● ▼		I definitely think it is.
		I mean, the people that are making these moves, they give speeches on it, they teach it in school.
		You know, this business of redistribution of the wealth, destruction of national sovereignty, these things have been written about and talked openly about for quite a while, and that's what they're trying to create for the United States.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of August 21st, 1995, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell Last of the Rockies, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Jonathan Tacoma.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, John.
unidentified		And you started this show off today talking about that guy who deposited the non-negotiable check?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Patrick Combs, yes.
unidentified		Right.
		I just saw on our 11 o'clock news broadcast that story.
		And they said that it was 33 days after he drew the money out is when the bank tried to get the money back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would say pretty pathetic on First Interstate's part, wouldn't you?
		Yes.
		I mean, what happened to the teller who deposited this check?
		I'll tell you, I put my own valid checks in for deposit, but forgot to sign them.
		And they catch it every time.
		And wouldn't you think you'd look hard if you're a teller?
		I mean, how many days does a teller see a $95,000 check in an ATM period?
unidentified		I would imagine not too often.
		Yeah.
		The other thing is they also said that the law is on his side because the bank waited too long.
		They didn't catch the mistake in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can't stand it.
		Let me tell you a little secret.
		We just got a call from Patrick Combs, and we're going to bring him on the air here at the top of the hour.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How's that?
unidentified		That's great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll find out exactly what the deal is with Patrick.
		I thought it was a cool story.
		Absolutely an excellent story.
		And I'm not really sure about the legal ramifications of all of this.
		You know, it seems like it might be his money in a way.
		And it seems, but it really, of course, is not his money.
		But then again, I bet there's going to be a lot of people that are going to run out here and duplicate this now, try and duplicate it.
		On the West of the Rockies line, you're on the air.
unidentified		I are on today, KSRO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're going to have to speak up good and loud, dear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kind of weak.
unidentified		Okay, today, KSRO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Okay, I have two things I'd like to tell you.
unidentified		First of all, I tried to call you with the story about the check the other day, the $95,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And in our same newspaper, we had a headline that read, old decomposed, headless body found in plastic bag.
unidentified		Police suspect foul play.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great.
unidentified		They're sharp, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Okay, what I wanted to tell you is I learned something that was so interesting today, and it's about daytime soap operas, and they're obviously named because soap manufacturers sponsored them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		But I found out that they were begun in the 30s, late 30s, because of the Depression.
unidentified		FDR wanted people to have something to focus on and distract them from their troubles and help them be creative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you watch soaps?
unidentified		No, I don't watch daytime soaps because I said they're not reality, but now with the OJ case, I guess they're not any more outlandish than that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I don't know whether that's a slam on the soaps or O.J. Simpson.
		I disagree with you anyway.
		O.J. Simpson is much better than the soaps.
		When the O.J. Simpson trial concludes and I no longer have it to look forward to, I wonder how life can even continue.
		Of course it will, but for me, because I'm off on those hours, it is at times very exciting.
		How many of you have noticed, as I said last week, it is far more interesting when they don't have a witness on the stand?
		Now that may change OG, you know, his witness.
		But right now, watching the attorneys go at each other and Judge Ito trying to control it all is downright entertaining.
		Wild Cardline, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hey, Art.
		It's Jim calling from Houston.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hi, Jim.
unidentified		I'm really looking forward to that thing next Monday night on the counters, the film.
		Oh, yes?
		I'm involved with MUFON pretty much a lot in Houston, and if I'm going to be making some copies, if you'd like a copy that tape, I'd be glad to send you one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, um...
unidentified		I don't know, are you going to try to watch it, or...?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Am I going to watch it?
unidentified		That's a dumb question, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a dumb question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've got a satellite dish here, so I'll put it on Fox and grab it off satellite.
unidentified		Good deal.
		Let me ask you, Art.
		You were talking about this UFO thing earlier.
		You know, you were saying how you would have to say no to believing in them.
		Well, let me ask you this.
		Well, all of the stuff we always see and read about and pictures and stuff, albeit a lot of it's probably, you know, not UFOs or hoaxes or whatever, do you leave open the possibility that there could be an existence of them?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I kind of felt that because I know in the past when you talked about it with Dreamlander all, you know, you feel pretty strong about it enough to want to have a program like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
		You're absolutely correct.
		But the question was, do I believe in it kind of like an article of faith?
		And the answer is, no, I don't.
		No more than I do a lot of structured religions or a lot of other things in life.
		Thank you.
		I'm going to have to run.
		Look, I might as well be from Missouri, like some of you out there.
		I've got to be able to put my hand on it and touch it.
		And then I believe it.
		Otherwise, I have doubts.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 21st, 1995.
		We'll be right back.
		We'll be right back.
		Oh, Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired August 21st, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Live Overnight Talk Radio.
		And as so many times is the case, because we are live, we can deal with things as they come along.
		This is a most amazing story.
		Junk Mail.
		NBC covered this story last night.
		Junk Mail.
		Everybody gets it.
		As a matter of fact, sometimes you get these letters with a sort of a little clear window in them, and you can see what looks like a check, and you think, oh great!
		Some kind of refund or I've won or something or another.
		Anyway, a check with your name on it.
		Usually, though, when you look a little closer, you notice it says non-negotiable, very small lettering, usually, non-negotiable.
		But it says it could be yours.
		If only you fill this out and you're the lucky winner, whatever, you know how it goes.
		Patrick Combs of San Francisco apparently thought, what the hell?
		So he took this check.
		Now, this is the way NBC covered it: to put the check in the bank, in his account, without signing it.
		Didn't sign it.
		That's very important, I think.
		Went to a First Interstate ATM.
		I like First Interstate.
		They've always been good to me.
		And I used their ATM here in town.
		That is our bank account.
		Well, guess what?
		First Interstate took the check, $95,93.35, and put it in Patrick's account.
		Now, Patrick said it was like putting monopoly money in the bank.
		He thought it'd be funny, I guess.
		He called them, though, after he figured out the money was in his account and insisted that it be removed, I think.
		Anyway, they left it in the account.
		They insisted it was his.
		It was good.
		Finally, in frustration, he withdrew the money out, took the money out of the account, and got a cashier's check for $95,000 and put it in a safe deposit box.
		I wonder if it was at the same bank.
		Well, we're about to find out.
		Anyway, finally, some days later, the bank went oops and went to get the money back from Patrick.
		As of yet, I don't think he's given it back.
		As a matter of fact, Patrick is out of town.
		We found him in Kansas City, Missouri.
		We've got him on the phone.
		What does Patrick want?
		Well, the NBC story said he'd just like to have, say, lunch with the bank president.
		So far, no comment from First Interstate Bank.
		And I was asking, should the bank get their money back?
		I'm not altogether sure.
		Let's see what Patrick thinks.
		From Kansas City, here is Patrick Combs, I think.
		Patrick, are you there?
unidentified		I am, Art.
unidentified		It is really, really a pleasure to be on your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, I'm glad to have you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I take it you are familiar with the show.
unidentified		Absolutely.
		I live out in San Francisco.
		You can't miss it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay, great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, first of all, did NBC get it all right or did they get any of it wrong?
unidentified		NBC got it all right.
		I think they did a really fantastic job with the story.
		They have a limited amount of time, so they can really hardly tell you the truth in this unbelievable odyssey that's happened.
		And the thing that's really visibly absent from their story is the fact that I have a legal claim to that money three different ways.
		I mean, I heard you saying in the introduction, you're not sure that they have a claim back to the money, despite the fact that they want it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm really not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Legally, you know, I'm not an attorney.
unidentified		And I'm not either.
		But let me tell you what I, you know, they did, I got a cashier's check when they insisted that it had legally become mine.
		A teller did.
		But it was, you know, they said, by law, the check can no longer come back because it's been in your account so long.
		So I got a cashier's check.
		Well, then I began to wonder, you know, maybe the teller didn't know the law.
		So I ended up in a law library reading law books for the first time on bank checks.
		And I was reading the definitive law book.
		And it was in there that I learned I have a legal right to the money three different ways.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you going to get a lawyer?
unidentified		No, I'm not.
unidentified		I don't have a plan for getting a lawyer right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you going to try to keep the money?
unidentified		You know, here's the way I feel about it.
unidentified		I have actually always wanted to give the money back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you tried, didn't you?
unidentified		Yeah, I did try.
		You know, I was sitting there.
		Another question you asked was, you wonder if I took it to a different bank and put it in a different safety deposit box.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
unidentified		I left it in First Interstate Safety Deposit Box.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But by law, they can't go in there.
unidentified		No, they can't.
		No, no, no.
		Did NBC report that they wanted to drill the box?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		That's where this started.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did they want to drill the box open?
unidentified		All right.
		Here I was in an airport on my way on vacation, and that's when the bank called me.
		I get three calls all at once from my bank on my voicemail that said, urgent as soon as possible.
		You know, you've got to call us right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		So I call.
		And the third person, I tell the first two people that I'm going to give the money back as soon as I get back from my vacation.
		The third person was a security officer.
		And he told me he's running the show and the way things go.
		And he, first he asked me to return home right then and there to fly back home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute, at whose expense?
unidentified		He didn't.
		He just said, he said, well, then can you fly back right now to give us that check?
		I thought it was the craziest thing I ever heard.
		I was like, you know, no, sir.
		And then he said, then is there somebody else who can open the box?
		And I said, no, sir.
		I'm the only one on the signature card.
		And then he said, well, then will you give me permission to drill the box?
		And I said, no, sir.
		And that's when it really took a different turn because he said, why are you not willing to cooperate?
		And I said, I am willing to cooperate.
		But now I feel a responsibility for this money.
		And I expected that it was the person who wrote the check that was probably out the money.
		And I just like, let's start at the beginning with an official letter.
		Just send me a letter that says, you really work at the bank and that the check really came back.
		And when he said no, he would not give me a letter.
		What I might get is policemen at my door and that I had committed an act of fraud to the tune of $100,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's start, right?
		Let's stop there for a second.
		He said you committed an act of fraud.
		Yes.
		What was the act of fraud?
		Now, you didn't sign the check, did you?
unidentified		No, I didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All you did was drop it in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You filled out one of those little envelopes, ATM envelopes?
unidentified		Yes, I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Drop sucker in there, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then where is the fraud?
unidentified		Yeah, well, that's exactly it.
		Here's how confident I am that I didn't commit an act of fraud.
		I would not be talking on television across the country to 60 million people telling them what I did if I wasn't absolutely confident that I had not committed an act of fraud.
		I know what fraud is now because when he said that to me for the first time, he put fear into me.
		And my fear said, did I accidentally commit fraud?
		Is my whole life going to go down the tubes on an incident?
		Sure.
		And I called the best lawyer in the Bay Area who specializes in bank check fraud.
		And I told him my story, which is very scary to do, because you're like, what am I telling myself here?
		And he'll take me to prison?
		And he laughed, and he said, you didn't commit fraud.
		He said, your bank legally lost the money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
unidentified		It's interesting why they legally lost the money.
unidentified		And, you know, let me remind people, I'm not a lawyer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The check said non-negotiable, right?
unidentified		Art, you're in for the surprise of your life that I got the shock of my life in the Hastings Law Library in San Francisco when I was reading about check law.
unidentified		You can write a check to someone and you can stamp non-negotiable right across the front, and non-negotiable doesn't mean anything on a check.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		That's right.
		Not only did I read it for myself, photocopy it for myself, but I called the author of the book himself and he confirmed it.
		It's a 1990 UCC law.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel.
unidentified		Very potentially dangerous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I should say, because I get a lot of that stuff myself.
unidentified		Well, see, when I read that law, it hit me like, you know what really happened here, and nobody in the media has paid attention to it yet, but I've been trying to tell people that that company in Ohio that issued these checks mailed out 40 million real checks.
		Because what you do to figure out if a check is real is you look in the law book and you see, does it match these four criteria that every check has got to have?
		And whether they write non-negotiable or not, it does not matter.
		If it matches those five four criteria, it's a check.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Patrick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So armed with this information, potentially then, first interstate, if they can't get any satisfaction from you.
unidentified		Could go to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could go to them.
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then it would be your money.
		Gee, I wonder.
		You know, then there was all those other checks out there right now.
		Isn't this likely to tempt a bunch of those people to do exactly the same thing?
unidentified		Yeah, it is likely to.
		I caution people that my story is very different.
		I caution people because I didn't commit an act of fraud because nowhere in my mind did I ever think that the check would cash.
		I just never thought it was possible because it said non-negotiable on it.
		But you are attempting fraud if you go there, you know, putting something in that you believe is junk and you're trying to get cash for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, go back even a step further.
		What were you doing?
		Were you having fun?
unidentified		Yeah, I was having fun.
		You know, my problem is I do things to make myself laugh.
		I'll give you another instance.
		When I went to get my driver's license picture, I wore a wig in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		So, you know, it makes me laugh.
		It's a funny thing to me.
		To me, it wasn't so much funny.
		It was fun.
		Have you ever filled out a deposit slip for $95,000?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Never.
unidentified		And then punched in that many digits.
		I hadn't either.
		But when you do it for the first time, it's a laugh.
		It's a fun, but you can do it with a junk mail check because you feel safe.
		You feel like, I'm not hurting anybody here.
		You know, they're going to see it like I saw it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's talk timeline.
		From the time that you made this deposit, how long was it until you suddenly got some kind of statement saying, guess what?
		There's really all this money in your account.
unidentified		You asked the right question, Art, because that was the burning question on the lawyer's mind, too.
		This is where the bank legally lost the money.
		I put it in on May the 21st.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May 21st.
unidentified		Then on May the 22nd, on May the 22nd, the check got rejected by the third bank to handle it, which was the Federal Reserve Bank in Ohio.
unidentified		The Federal Reserve Bank stopped that check one day after I put it in and said, this is not for real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At least somebody's doing their work.
unidentified		Right.
		Now, it went back through two banks that had acted as clearinghouses, and then on June the 5th, that's the key date, my bank was notified by memo from another bank in Chicago that the check had been dishonored.
		Every law book published about checks will tell you that a bank has got a midnight deadline for bad checks.
		If a check is dishonored, they have by midnight of the next day to let you know.
		If they don't let you know by that date, courts almost always rule that they lost the legal right to the money.
		especially when they find out on june fifth and then they wait until june twenty first with in which to tell me uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		are there any legal When did you first learn that the money actually was in your account?
unidentified		Three days after I deposited it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Three days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gee, usually with big checks, they say 10 days for out-of-state checks, at least.
unidentified		Yes, and they had every right in the world to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But they didn't.
unidentified		No.
		You know, tellers, people are writing me from all over the world, and they're reading my website.
		And I'd like to give it out to your listeners later on so they can see the check for themselves and the correspondence from the banks, and they can see the deposits list and everything.
		But tellers have written to me now, and I've written back and asked them, how do you think this could possibly have happened?
		And their response is, I have no idea because what tellers talk about in their day, what's exciting to them is if they handle a big check.
		If they handle an item over $5,000, it's office talk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and so you know that's it when i got that's just I mean, you don't have any connections in the bank.
unidentified		No, but my friend told me what I ought to do is go try and get a job at the bank now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've got a good point.
		By the way, do you work?
		What kind of work are you in?
unidentified		I am an author, just a guy who Wrote a book.
		This is not my trade normally.
		I knew nothing about bank checks or nothing about bank law.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you are now the George Plimpton of banks.
unidentified		But I did.
unidentified		I wrote a book called Major in Success.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Major in Success.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		It's about success in your career and in your life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did any part of your book include a stunt like this?
unidentified		You know, there's one part in my book that reminds me of, there's two parts in my book that remind me of this.
		I put a line in my book in a chapter called Bold Decisions that does say some of the most exciting, adventurous things in your life will happen because you made a bold and irrational decision.
		And it was my way of saying to people that we all get inspiration, but if you try and think out every decision as if you're buying a home, sometimes you talk yourself out of a good thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, take a chance every now and then in life, right?
unidentified		Yeah, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And have a little fun in life, too.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		It's Bill Gates, you know, saying that it's Bill Gates being a 19-year-old at Harvard and then telling the first guy to make up the personal computer that he had made software when he hadn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you rich?
unidentified		No, no, no, no.
unidentified		I'm far from rich.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would 95 grand do it?
unidentified		$95,000 would turn my finances around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll bet it would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on just one moment, Patrick.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		You never know what you'll hear on Coast to Coast A.M. with George Norrie.
		Are you concerned at all that government is taking us down the wrong path?
		And why are they doing it?
g edward griffin ▲ ● ▼		What is the wrong path?
		The wrong path, in my view, is that government is expanding its power and individuals are losing their freedom to make decisions for themselves.
		The more crisis we have in terms of the economy or potential terrorist attacks or a swine flu and all these wondrous things that are coming at us from all sources, the government comes along and says, okay, we'll solve your problem for you.
		Just allow us to expand our power and we'll take control of your lives and, you know, we'll solve the problems by making you a slave.
		And then you won't have to worry about decisions anymore because we'll make all of them for you.
		So anybody that's awake, I would say, should share my concern.
		But yes, the government is leading us down the wrong path.
		And it's primarily because we're allowing it.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of August 21st, 1995, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to Patrick Combs in of all places, Kansas City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Patrick, you're not out there conferring with a guy named Markham, are you?
unidentified		No.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's an old story.
unidentified		Art.
		Yes.
		I want to tell you two more things, and then let me tell you, in all sincerity.
		This is the best radio interview that I've done yet in that I feel that you are a very attentive, intelligent questioner.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		So I'm going to ask you a question that I haven't asked anybody before.
		But I need to tell you two things first.
		The first is that another law that I read about is called final payment.
		And it says that when a bank gives a cashier's check for the exact same amount as a deposit that it received, courts consider that end of story.
		They look at it and say, that's the bank's way of saying, sure, your check is absolutely good.
		It's called final payment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, so there's a couple of attitudes you could take here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One is, you know, you tried to give the money back, apparently, pretty hard, right?
unidentified		No, I didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, see, NBC then misled us a little bit because they sort of tried to indicate that you went back to the bank after you saw the money in your account, trying to get their attention, trying to tell them, look, it's not real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was not true.
unidentified		No, that would be misleading.
unidentified		Yeah, that was misleading.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, so they did mislead a little bit.
		Okay.
		Yeah.
		Okay, well, so you could take two attitudes now.
		One is, it's not my money, and I've had enough fun, and I'm going to give it back.
		The other is, the law is on my side.
		Let's see what we can do here.
unidentified		Under no circumstances have I been trying to have fun with this.
		It is fun to have $95,000 sitting in your account, even if you believe it's going to go away or it's not rightfully yours.
		But I'm in no way trying to have fun with this.
		Does that make sense?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, not exactly, because it began as fun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Right, but when it went to the media, it's not something I'm trying to have fun with.
unidentified		Because I seriously want the bank to help me resolve this, but they're not calling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what do you want?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's try that.
unidentified		I have always wanted to give the money back.
		And I'll tell you why.
		Because my life is far bigger than $95,000.
		I feel very fortunate because early on, somewhere along the line of my life, I learned principles of success that make any person feel far more valuable than $100,000.
		I'm sure you know this yourself, right?
		You would not leave the country for $100,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I would not.
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what if, legally, the $100,000 could be yours?
unidentified		Well, you know, I don't think that a person, you know, I don't think that you should do what you have the right to do.
		I think you should do the right thing.
		Well, that, of course, is proper attitude.
		But here's where I ran into my own values and considerations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, listen, I'm at the bottom of the arrow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Plus, I'd like you to, would you take calls?
unidentified		Yes, I would.
unidentified		You would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, good.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I am currently refusing to give back the money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it there.
		That's a good hook.
		Hold it right there.
		Patrick Combs is my guest.
		He'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 21st, 1995.
		Coast to Coast AM from August
		21st, 1995.
		Coast to Coast AM from August 21st, 1995.
		Coast to Coast AM from August 21st, 1995.
		You're listening to Artfell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an oncourt presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 21st, 1995.
		My guest is Patrick Combs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He put some junk mail he got into his first interstate account.
		And they credited his account with $90 some odd thousand dollars, $95,000 plus.
		And he's still got it.
		He's got it locked up in a box, in a check, in a cashier's check.
		And we were just discussing, Patrick, certainly your attitude, I think, is commendable, that you want to do the right thing.
		But I've got to be honest with you, if I had the money and I began to see that I might have a legal right to it, I'd think long and hard, long and hard.
		And I'll tell you what it would depend on, and see if you're in agreement with this.
		If the people at the bank were cool and nice and friendly and decent people and they were nice to you, then my inclination might be to give it back.
		But if they were really nasty and really just coming at me, you know, head-on, you got it, then I don't know, I might give my backup a little bit.
		That's about what's happening?
unidentified		You got it.
		You put your finger on it.
		I put it in these words.
		I put it like this.
		You know, they would have the money back already if when they first called me, they were nice, friendly.
		And that's where this whole, you know, take me to lunch thing came from because I almost imagined that they would.
		I thought 12 years at their bank, you know, they will, when they find out that they legally lost money, they're going to get a VP to call me and treat me really nice and then, you know, and thank me for not spending the money right away.
		Now, but I refuse to give that check back under circumstances where I'm being intimidated, where they're trying to make me give it back out of fear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you could have gone down and at least gotten yourself a brand new 100 megahertz Pentium or something like that.
unidentified		I would love a brand new color PowerBook or a brand new Mustang.
		Exactly.
		I have a million things I would love to do with that money.
		It does take responsibility to just sit it in a safety deposit box and even one in their own bank.
		I did not want to lose money that might not be mine.
		And I am clear as a bell that the money, that I have an absolute legal claim to the money.
		But I'm clear on the fact that if I allow my life to be ruled by fear and intimidation, whether it's my fears or somebody else trying to intimidate me, my life will get boring, my life will get unadventurous, and I will feel worse about myself.
		And that's where this kicked in.
		You know, on the day where, oh, you're not going to deal with this, I'm referring to the bank deciding not to deal with this in a legal, upright fashion where we talk human, being the human being, but to try and cover for their mistake by intimidating me and by putting the fear of be Jesus into me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't happen to know who the teller was, do you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to name, but I mean, have you had any discussions with the bank about the fate of the teller?
unidentified		Let me tell you this.
		I worry that a teller will lose their job over this because the bank made a mistake and people realize that.
		But everybody think about this.
		The tellers get paid $5 an hour and they're part-time trained.
		If they make mistakes, it's because they're not being trained the right way.
		But I view it differently when a VP makes a customer service mistake.
		Because VPs are paid a lot of money and they're supposed to have excellent social skills and customer service skills.
		I wouldn't want anybody to lose their job over it, but if someone had to reevaluate the way they were treating their customers or doing their banking business, I would hope that it would be somebody high up in the company.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		All right.
		Mike in Portland says the fraud occurred when he punched the numbers into the machine with his card and pin number and then manually entered the check amount into the machine.
		How do you respond to that?
unidentified		Mike is wrong because fraud is based on intention.
		If I can punch numbers into a bank, let's say if I, Mike, if I walk up to my ATM machine and I literally have a monopoly $500 bill and I punch $500 into it and then I slide that orange dollar bill into the ATM,
		I'm not attempting fraud because the opposing party would have an enormously difficult time convincing a judge that I actually thought that I could get I was actually trying to get the bank to give me money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They would have a better case, wouldn't they, had you signed the back of the check?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then it would show more intent.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But this.
unidentified		Well, they would have a better case, too, if I had tried to erase the words non-negotiable in the corner of the check.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But they were still clearly printed.
unidentified		Oh, of course.
		No, I'm just saying, you know, I was altered or signed or something, then it would have shown that I was trying to get their money, but I wasn't trying to get their money.
		They'd also have a better case, too, if I had spent the money, because that would show that I was trying to get their money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So again, getting back to what you want at this point, you just want a bank vice president, at least, to come to you in a nice, polite way, maybe take you out to lunch, say, look, we want to get this settled.
		We don't want any hard feelings.
		We're going to reopen your account for you.
		Give us our money back.
unidentified		No, see, the more I think about it, the more I think, you know, I've got to stop saying, you know, what I want the bank to do because this is all about the way I want to live my life.
		And I don't want to live my life allowing anybody to rule me by fear or intimidation.
		So I'm just going to do what I have to do to not be ruled by fear and intimidation.
		And if the bank comes on in any way like that, then I'm going to stand my ground.
		And I am fully, you know, I'm going to stand my ground.
		And if the bank doesn't, if that fear and intimidation factor goes by, then you're going to see me give a check back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's take a couple of calls, see what people have to say about this.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Patrick Combs.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Columbia, South Carolina, WVOC.
		Yes, sir.
		Hate to burst your bubble.
		The bank has its money back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does?
unidentified		Yes.
		Here is a simple fact that a lot of Americans don't seem to understand.
		Cashier's checks can be voided by the issuer.
		And if he went to this bank and bought the cashier's check, and it's their cashier's check, they have a record of the number of the cashier's check and they know what it is.
		Trying to get a hold of the piece of paper that's in the safety deposit box is just a loose end.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that was a double-click.
unidentified		The caller is incorrect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's what I'm correct.
unidentified		He's correct in the fact that the issuing bank can void a cashier's check.
		He's incorrect about what it takes for them to void a cashier's check.
		Let me put it two different ways here.
		Number one, if the caller goes to Brady's own bank checks and looks up what it takes for a bank to cancel a cashier's check, he'll see that the majority of courts rule that even if a bank has a good defense, it cannot cancel its own cashier's check unless the court tells it it can.
		Any cancellation before that results in my having the right for a civil suit.
		The second way I'll tell you that the caller is wrong is if he calls the author of Brady's on bank checks, the definitive book on banking law that First Interstate Bank told me they used themselves, the author told me if they cancel your cashier check, you get a lawyer because you have a civil suit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it looks like to me First Interstate is tangled with the wrong person here.
		I mean, some nice old lady maybe who was just joking around would have just given it back, but you sound a little sharp for them, and I think they've got a big headache on their hands.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Patrick Combs.
		Hello?
unidentified		Okay, Art.
unidentified		And is that Peter?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, Patrick.
unidentified		Patrick, I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		This is Owen from Princeton, Minnesota.
		Okay.
		And I want to tell Patrick that he should fight for this money till the end, because it sounds like he's got three different legal claims to it.
		You know, I'd have a lot more fun with 95,000 smacks than a lot of other people.
		You know, if he wants a good time, fight this thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Get a good lawyer, because, you know...
		Patrick, suppose you did as he said, even because you're angry at the treatment they're giving you, and you fought this right down to the bitter end, and you won.
		In other words, there it is.
		The final decision.
		The money actually is yours.
		Besides changing all of America's junk mail forevermore, would you at that point, when they said the money is yours, then would you give it back?
unidentified		No, sir.
unidentified		At that point, I would give it all to charity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Charity?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No 100 megahertz Pentium, laptop.
unidentified		No, I'll tell you why.
		I'll tell you why.
		I would be so proud of the fact that I stood up for myself against a massive institution.
		And I believe, as the Indians used to believe, that gifts have to stay in motion.
		The minute they stop, that they become property.
		And you've changed the fundamental nature.
		So, no, I would give it all away, and I'd be really proud of the fact that I got to play a little bit of Robin Hood.
		You would think of it as a legal gift.
		No, I would, yeah, I would think that the universe gave me a gift because I wasn't trying to get that money.
		It just, you know, it would have just ended up, I was $95,000 richer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd give it all to charity.
unidentified		Yes, I would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are a remarkable person.
		You really are.
		I mean, a lot of people would either just plain give it back to avoid the hassle, not get into a fight because it might end up costing you $95,000.
		How about legal help?
		Would you be your own attorney?
		Sounds like you could be.
unidentified		No, I wouldn't.
unidentified		I think that that could be naive on my part.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would get a Well, you've got F. Lee Belly, but he's busy.
unidentified		I would get a good lawyer who specializes in bank check law.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Patrick Combs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Well, I think we're missing the whole point here.
		That money's just not his.
		I don't care if it's legal or not legal.
		The money is not his.
		And I mean, I can give you a perfect example of how this works.
		I went to an ATM machine at First Interstate.
		I asked for $100.
		And it gave me back, I think it was $120.
		Okay, so it's $20 more than I had in there.
		I wrote a check, sent it back to the bank, sent them a brief note, and got this terrific letter back from a bank vice president pointing out that that money is not my money.
		It's someone else's money.
		And he also said that at any time I wanted a loan at the bank, they'd come in at any time because I demonstrated my faith and integrity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your honesty.
unidentified		So, I mean, it's just not his money.
		It's not an issue.
		I don't know why we're spending so much time on this tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, because apparently there is a legal question.
unidentified		Can I say something here?
		Yeah, go ahead.
		Yeah, it begs two questions.
		My instant response is, it's not my money because I didn't earn it.
		At the value and consideration level, I didn't earn the money.
		It's not mine.
		But it also begs a very serious question, which is, then what is the law for?
		You know, are you...
		Why do we have...
		Why is there...
		Why are there tomes and court cases on what entitles a person legally to money?
		And if a bank is supposed to dishonor a check by a certain amount of time in order to save people from hardship, and we don't follow the rules when it's in our favor, but the bank wants us to follow it when it's in their favor, then what are we talking about?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, isn't there a monopoly card that says bank error in your favor, collect $200?
unidentified		Yeah, that started to seem like a very ridiculous card to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I mean, it could have said $95,000 or so.
unidentified		I mean, those laws, things like the midnight deadline, are laid down for a reason.
		And I really, as much as I want to give the money back, I also think, well, what are the laws for then?
		Because we don't do our money system based on ethics.
		We do it based on laws.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		So are the laws only enforceable when they're on the bank's side is a good question.
		Hold on one second.
unidentified		Why aren't people questioning the bank's ethics?
		Like, hey, you know, Patrick legally got a claim to the money.
		And banks depend on those laws for their profit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
unidentified		So why are they telling him that he's got to give it back?
		Why don't they just go, we're playing by rules laid down in this book.
		We agree to this book.
		It's how we make a lot of profit every year.
		And, you know, we didn't, he got it this time.
		So we move along.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on a second, Patrick.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 21st, 1995.
		Coast to Coast AM from August 21st, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From Kansas City, Patrick Combs.
unidentified		Patrick.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Back we are.
		Let's keep moving.
		West of the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Patrick Combs.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
unidentified		Hold on.
unidentified		Let me turn the radio down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn it off.
		Okay.
		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, we got it off.
unidentified		Hey, just wanted to say I've been listening to Peter all night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Patrick.
unidentified		Patrick, somebody else called him Peter, so I'm...
		Patrick, I just wanted to say that I really commend what you're doing.
		I think it's pretty cool.
		Thank you very much.
		I think you started off with exactly what you're saying.
		You started off doing this because it was something neat, and now the bank's trying to push you around.
		Exactly.
		Still, you're holding on to it saying, hey, it's a principal thing.
		And you're not going to push me around.
		I think that's pretty neat.
		Thank you very much.
		It's not, you know, I really appreciate that because it's not easy for me to stand up against this bank.
		I live now on a day-to-day basis wondering if I'm going to be in court for the next two years.
		When was the last time they contacted you?
		July the 6th.
		It's been that long.
		Yes.
		You know what?
		The last conversation I had with the bank was like this.
		It took every ounce of, the hardest phone call I've ever made in my life, and I called them, and I said, it was the day they expected me to return the money, and I said, I'm not going to give the money back unless we reach a different agreement, because I know that I gained a legal right to that money, and I am upset because of the way that I've been treated in this situation.
		And what I asked him for, and he was in complete agreement to get it for me, was a letter, an official letter from the bank, and some new ATM cards.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you wanted your account restored.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that seems amicable.
unidentified		That's pretty easy for $95,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		So what did they say?
		They said, okay.
unidentified		He said that he would get me a letter, and he said that he would try to get me ATM cards.
		And granted, that wasn't in his control.
		That was another department's control.
		I've never heard from them again.
		I did.
		I got a letter from, you know, that was July the 6th.
		And then on July the 25th, I got a letter from my bank, and I opened it, you know, anxious, nervous, wondering if it was going to be the one that put me in court.
		It said, Dear Patrick, we appreciate you being a longtime customer of the bank.
		You know, we respect your business.
		We're glad we hope you're happy.
		We're happy with having you.
		And we want to offer you as a thank you a $1,000 worth of accidental dismemberment and death insurance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		Why do I need it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You may need $95,000 worth.
unidentified		Exactly.
		I haven't heard anything from my bank now.
		I have no idea why.
		I've heard nothing from them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe they realize their legal position is less than perfect.
unidentified		Yeah, maybe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe they're regrouping.
		Maybe a lot of things.
		Are you afraid to go back now to San Francisco?
		I mean, are you afraid some sheriff is going to be there waiting for you?
unidentified		I'm not as afraid now as I was on July 6th.
		Around July 6th, it's the day that I returned from my vacation to San Francisco.
		And I was very frightened, and so was my whole family.
		As a matter of fact, one of the most things I'll remember the most from this whole episode was I was in an airport.
		This thing has put immense stress on my mother, who on a daily basis lights candles for me and worries I'm going to be in jail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did your mom say?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, how did you even break this to your mom?
unidentified		Well, you know, on the first couple days when it was just completely fun.
		It was just completely fun for three weeks because I just had a great account balance that I didn't intend spending, but it was really fun to walk around.
		You know, if you give someone your phone number, you give it on the back of your bank receipt now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		But when I first told my mother, She goes, Patrick, you have got to stop doing things like this.
		You're not 18 anymore.
		And she goes, you know, don't you spend any of that money.
		I said, I'm not going to spend any of the money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old are you now, by the way?
unidentified		29.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		29?
unidentified		29, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Still a kid?
unidentified		I don't think of myself as a kid, but I think of myself as youthful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, it was kind of a thing that a kid would do.
		In a way, it was youthful.
		It was kind of a prank.
		It began innocently enough, really.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It did, right?
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On your honor, as a tenth of a millionaire, nearly, you would tell us this began as a prank.
unidentified		On my honor.
		Yeah, on every bit of my honor.
		I tell you, it just began as a prank based on my confidence that it would hurt no one, that in no way would it ever go through or clear.
		I walked home laughing to myself over and over, going, you know, in this age of uncertainty, I have certainty in my life.
		I know that tomorrow my bank will call me and go, silly, Mr. Combs, you've put a silly, you know, not real check into the account.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, very, very cute, Mr. Combs.
unidentified		Right.
		Now, here's what my mother said to me in the airport.
		She's in fear.
		I'm going back to San Francisco, and she looks me in the eye and she says, Patrick, I'm not going to tell you not to do things like this in the future or to stop doing this because when you stop taking risks, your life becomes boring.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your mother told you that.
		That's quite an attitude from a mom.
		So in other words, she's actually behind you.
unidentified		She is.
unidentified		She just worries for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a long history, Patrick, of doing things like this?
unidentified		I'm an adventurous person, but I don't have a long, I have no history of doing things like this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You haven't messed with banks before?
unidentified		Never, ever, ever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You haven't hacked your way into any of the things.
unidentified		No, no hacking?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no hacking.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to hang on for a while, Patrick?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		Stay right there.
		We've got a newscast to do.
		Relax, and we'll come back to you after that.
		A tenth of a millionaire.
		Me.
unidentified		You're listening to Mark Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 21st, 1995.
		We'll be right back.
		You're listening to our bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Toasted Post AM from August 21st, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of news stations joining at this hour, so a brief recap.
		We all get junk mail.
		You've seen them.
		NBC covered this last night.
		You know, the envelope arrives and you look at it and through the little window you can see what looks like a check made out to you, right?
		So you rip open the envelope thinking it's a refund or something and it's some incredible amount of money offered to you.
		This could be yours, it will say, if only you are the grand prize winner.
		And the check, of course, always says non-negotiable on it.
		As did this check, the check in question.
		Patrick Combs of San Francisco got one of these in the amount of $95,093.35, according to NBC.
		We'll check that out with him in a moment.
		Because, yes, he's our guest.
		And so what he did is he took the check without signing it and put it in a deposit envelope, put it into the ATM, entered the amount, walked away.
		A few days later, lo and behold, it showed up in his account.
		The money was there.
		Anyway, finally, after enough time passed, he drew the money out of the account, wisely or not, and got a cashier's check for the $95,000 in change and put it into a safety deposit box, same first interstate bank.
		You know how they work.
		The bank keeps a key and you've got a key, right?
		Well, after that, the bank all of a sudden went, oops, what have we done?
		Actually, it took, as I understand it, the Federal Reserve Bank to determine that this was not a proper check.
		And the bank came back to him.
		Now, NBC said, what does he want?
		Patrick says he just wants lunch with a bank VP.
		And that would do it.
		He'd give the money back.
		But, see, we've got Patrick on the telephone right now.
		We found him in Kansas City.
		he's exiled in kansas city uh...
		and so we're talking about whether you have to give the money back or what The money is his.
		And if you would again, legally, in other words, the money is yours, if not morally, Patrick, legally, in the best legalese you can muster, give us the best case once again for the new audience that this money legally may be yours.
unidentified		In short, I've got it three different ways.
		Number one, the words non-negotiable don't mean anything on a check.
		Number two, if a bank does not tell you that the check was dishonored within 24 hours after they found out it was bad, then the money legally becomes yours.
		And then the third reason is called finality of payment.
		When a bank issues a cashier's check for the exact same amount as a deposit that they took in, the courts consider that end of story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so technically, legally, you claim this money is yours.
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here's a fact, sir.
		See what you say to this.
		While I'm very sympathetic to this situation, I'll bet you any judge would inevitably side with the bank since there is the clear admission that this really was not a legit check.
		Also, need I remind you, the bank has lawyers on staff.
		You'll have to pay big, big bucks for yours, Mike, up in Madison, Wisconsin.
		Now, I think his first point is probably not true.
		You're saying it was a legit check.
unidentified		Correct.
unidentified		I think that a judge might take this opportunity to change that law.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		I do.
		I think a judge, because, I mean, if the guy who wrote the law book himself, you know, he's got a footnote in that book that brought it to my attention that says this is a dangerous law.
		If you can write sample or non-negotiable on a check and it doesn't mean anything, then it's a dangerous law.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, maybe there is a society in America, I believe, that fights junk mail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have they contacted you?
unidentified		No, I tried contacting the Direct Mail Association.
		If there is a society, I would truly like to know who they are, and I would contact them myself.
		All right, while we were on commercial, I got a metaphor that I'd like to throw out on you.
		I don't know.
		Listen to this.
		You're driving your car faster than you think the law allows.
		But since it's midnight and no one's around, you think it's safe.
		Police pulls you over, throws you on the hood of the car, and tells you that you've not just earned yourself a ticket, but also a prison sentence.
		You're shocked to learn about a prison sentence, so you go read the law for yourself.
		But what you find is that the law actually allows you to speed in that district.
		What do you do?
		Do you pay the ticket?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you fight.
		I would fight.
		There, of course, is no such law.
unidentified		No, there isn't.
unidentified		But what I'm saying is some people, that's exactly how I feel about my situation because, remember, in what I just said, you're driving the car faster than you think the law should allow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		You know, you think the law.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it should allow, I see, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Well, so the law doesn't even conform to your own morality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is, you know, the argument I liked best.
		It is that the laws are used most times for the bank's benefit.
		And when occasionally the law works the other way around, even though it would be a technicality, I kind of admire you for standing up and saying, no, wait a minute here.
		The law's on my side.
		And so then if the law is wrong, change the law.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is what you're saying, right?
unidentified		Yes.
		Yeah, I'm close to wanting to actually adopt that stance exactly because I really see the importance in doing that because it's the law.
		Exactly.
		If the law is wrong, then let's change it.
		And if the law doesn't conform to my morality, then maybe I ought to really put my best foot forward to have it reversed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		everybody should know and you really mean is up that if you win the money if the money turns out to be an argument I mean, what kind of fool would I look like if I didn't give it to charity after saying this?
unidentified		Of course I mean it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you could have that much in legal fees by the time this gets awarded to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has that occurred to you?
unidentified		If I had that much in legal fees, I couldn't afford this.
		I couldn't do this.
		I would need support from people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You did say you're an author, though, right?
unidentified		I am.
unidentified		I wrote a book called Major in Success.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Might be the subject for a hell of a book.
unidentified		It might be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, The Battle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Patrick Combs.
unidentified		Hi, this is Troy.
unidentified		I'm calling from Fort Myers, Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I'm a first-time caller.
		I have never, in all my years, I'm listening to talk radio, felt my blood pump as hard as it is pumping right now, and I had to call.
		It's the middle of the night for me, and I'm in a car phone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all right.
unidentified		I am, without sounding boastful, but I am a 28-year-old, self-made millionaire.
		I own a very large company that I'm sure most people are familiar with, and I'm not going to name it because I'm not here to plug my company.
		All right.
		I am completely repulsed by what I'm hearing.
		Not only the fact that you're encouraging it, but that he is actually buying into his own instant celebrity status.
		He is having so much fun with this and is trying so hard to exploit this for every bit he can get.
		It is just repulsive to me.
		The only people that I think are rallying around him and are saying, oh, great, go for it.
		You know, stick it to the big guy.
		He's thinking that the whole world believes, you know, stick it to the big guys and you'll always be the hero.
		And that's a bunch of crap.
		The only people that are telling him, good job, are the people who would steal the money anyway.
		So those are not reputable people to be listened to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The only thing I would say, see if you can deal with my argument.
unidentified		I'm going to try hard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'm tired of getting the kind of check that he got.
		I'll bet you I get four or maybe five of them a week.
		You know, as I said, the little clear section where you think you've gotten a check and you're kind of excited and you rip it open.
		I would like to see that stop.
unidentified		Well, but why does that have to do with the bank?
unidentified		He's punishing the bank because somebody mailed him junk mail?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in other words, ultimately, he could prove his point.
		He says the law is on his side in that the words non-negotiable don't mean a damn thing.
		Now, if that's right, that means people are going to have to stop sending out that kind of junk mail.
unidentified		Well, and maybe he has a point to make, but this is not like he set out on a mission.
unidentified		He has fallen into finding some way to rationalize what he's done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that could be.
unidentified		And intelligent, intellectual individuals like yourself have given him two or three ideas and causes to fight for.
		And so now, a very insecure guy who thought he was going to get his butt thrown in jail has had a few guys say nice things, and now he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.
		Now he's trying to plug his book.
		Now he wants people to call him on his Internet site.
		This is a 29-year-old who's never had anything in his life and now has got his 15 minutes of fame and he's playing it for all it's worth and it's repulsive.
		And let me add one more thing.
		As the owner of a big company with a lot of employees, I tell you what, this guy has screwed himself out of a job because I don't know anybody who owns a company that would ever hire this guy.
		He's not showing any signs of leadership, any signs of common sense, or any signs of moral and ethics.
		He's holding a big guy hostage, which means what?
		It means one day if he's ever had a bad experience.
		He's one of those guys who would flip and fall at work and then claim workman's comp and wear a fake neck brace.
		This guy is a loser.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, that's a pretty big attack, Patrick.
		How do you respond to it?
unidentified		Well, you know, mostly when, you know, when an attack is that big, I feel like there isn't a response because his blood is pumping harder than it's ever pumped before.
		There's nothing in the world that I could say that would make him feel any different about me.
		The things that I like to say to other people, and I don't mind him saying it either.
		It's just his opinion.
		The things that I would like to say to other people, if they're wondering how I feel about that, is, first of all, I have an enormous amount going on for myself.
		At least that's how I feel about myself.
		I don't feel like an insecure person who was given ideas by other people.
		He's right that I surely did not set out on any crusade at the beginning.
		I'm not a Ralph Nader who said, you know, I'm going to stick this in here because I'm going to stop junk mail checks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that might have been my idea.
unidentified		But if he himself goes to my website and he reads the account, I can't believe that he wouldn't notice that when things start to happen to you, you form opinions each step of the way.
		With each changing week, you learn something new.
		I have become educated through this process.
		Other people aren't educating me.
		I've learned about banks and NSF funds, banks' unfair handling about money practices.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, I want to say something, too.
		It's not like you're going to make any money by people going to your website.
		You're not going to make a penny from that as far as I can see.
		Point two, you have written a book, and I'm going to let you plug it just for coming on the air with me.
		I don't care.
unidentified		Well, let me add to point two, too.
unidentified		You know, because he called me a loser with nothing going for myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you've got to.
unidentified		I'm an author of a book at 29 years old.
		I do 40 speaking engagements a year around the country.
		I'm self-employed.
		My first year out of college, I made $80,000.
		I usually, you know, I've never been, you know, been fit into the profile that he put before.
		And as a matter of fact, that's why it doesn't bother me, because I think that's the last thing in the world that anybody would call me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've done a few dumb things in my life as well.
		I'm sympathetic at that level.
		And I suppose that his accusation about you're going through a period of rationalization is probably to some degree accurate.
		I mean, it's a process of thinking about it as all this has gone on.
		And it's not as though the bank has contributed to it by being Mr. Nice Guy, or has in fact contributed to a change in attitude.
		So, you know, on the other hand, I do feel sorry for that poor bank teller who may not have a job.
unidentified		Well, you know, and that did come up earlier.
		I went into the bank on Saturday.
		Yeah, on Saturday.
		And on Saturday, I spoke with three of the tellers there and the teller that I had actually spoken with before.
		And no tellers have been fired.
		And she smiled and gave me a big handshake and said, so you're the guy that did that.
		She goes, no, no, don't worry about it.
		None of us are getting in trouble and none of us will get in trouble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Patrick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll try and get to the bottom line when we get back in just a moment.
unidentified		Gunshot
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		Now we take you back to the night of August 21st, 1995, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The End Back now to Patrick Combs, the temporary possessor of $95,000 plus.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Patrick Combs.
		Hello.
unidentified		This is Greg from San Climate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Greg.
unidentified		Yeah, I agree with a guy that just preceded me that called.
		And You know, whatever the situation is with the bank, the big guy, whatever the situation is, somebody made a mistake there.
		And just because it's a mistake, and maybe because the legal grounds are there, that does not mean that that money is that man's.
		It's a wrong situation.
		It doesn't belong to him.
		And morally, there's an obligation to give that money back.
		Even if he winds up in a court situation saying that the money is his, giving it to charity isn't any appeasement.
		He should just turn around and give it back to the bank if he's got any character at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, is it reasonable that he would ask of the bank all you know, all he has asked of the bank?
		Well, but wait, he asked for a letter.
		That seems reasonable.
		And he asked to get his account restored.
unidentified		I understand.
		But the reasonability of it is not the issue.
		The issue is who really legally, you know what I'm saying, morally.
		No, you're confused yourself over whether you're asking yourself a legal question or a moral question.
		Morally precedes everything else.
		Otherwise, you're into situational ethics.
		And if the tide was turned and it was off your back and you were losing $95,000.
		Do you get upset about the fact that the law does not conform to your morals?
		Because I do.
		I think that each of us has got a moral character.
		Exactly, but don't worry.
		No matter what the law states, I believe that your moral character is first and foremost.
		And for you to compromise your own moral character with some kind of appeasement and rationalization just diminishes your own character.
		The first thing I'd like to say is that I agree with this man wholeheartedly.
		Because what he's saying is I have no ethical or moral claim to that money whatsoever.
		And if I've been misheard on this radio to say that I believe I have an ethical moral claim or that I am trying to keep the money, I have been misheard because in every step through every interview I've done, I have said, I want to give the money back.
		But I am not trying to keep this money.
		I'm trying to point out to people, though, that legally I have a claim and my bank didn't approach me like that saying, you know, hey, you're honest and you say that you don't have an ethical claim to it.
		We're honest and we say, you know, that we made a lot of mistakes and we lost the legal right.
		But instead they bent me over the hood.
		You know, I mean, they basically scared me to death so that in hopes that I wouldn't understand that I had rights in a situation or that I hadn't done something wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Patrick, let's say I'm a bank vice president and I'm going to get in touch with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's it going to take, bottom line, for you to give me my money back?
unidentified		We are going to go to lunch.
		We're going to go without lawyers because it's a friendly lunch with two respectable people who are trying.
		See, the last thing I think our country needs is more lawsuits.
		The last thing I want to do is give people an example of another reason to sue.
		I would like to publicly give people an example of a reason not to sue in a way to de-escalate problems.
		And all it would take is to sitting down at lunch, and I want to speak first, and I want to say, you know, I know that ethically and morally, I didn't do anything, I mean, that I didn't do anything to earn the money.
		And I like to have money that I earned.
		And I would like to hear the vice president of the bank say, you know, we don't, you know, we legally lost the money.
		Or we legally at least jeopardized our having money.
		We missed the midnight deadline.
		You're right.
		You know, there is such a thing as a midnight deadline that we're supposed to follow.
		And I would give the money back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all it would take.
unidentified		Because then they wouldn't be asking it back based on fear, you know, trying to scare me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that all you've had from them so far is the scare tactic?
unidentified		Yeah, that's all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You haven't had anybody come to you warmly and nicely?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think that...
		Hold on to that answer.
		We're here at the bottom of the hour.
		So hold on to that answer.
		It's a good hook, and we'll be right back.
		In other words, why wouldn't a big bank be human enough to send some nice guy out?
		And, I mean, that is all that Patrick is asking, that somebody show a little human kindness from a bank.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an on-tour presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 21st, 1995.
		Coast to Coast AM from August
		Coast to Coast AM from August 21st, 1995.
		21st, 1995.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired August 21st, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is the case of Patrick Combs that we talk.
		Patrick, young man in San Francisco, holder at the moment of about $95,000 or so of First Interstates money.
		Guess it's their money.
		Might be Patrick's money.
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what we're talking about.
		A couple of factors of support high art.
		I'm tired of the banks charging us more and more fees with less service.
		ATMs cost banks less than tellers.
		But fees keep going up and we keep losing tellers.
		Banks are really giving it to us, you know what I mean.
		And I'm glad they are getting a little of their own medicine back, signed Ray and this.
		Dear Art, ordinarily I would frown on Patrick for trying to beat the system.
		However, that is not what he did.
unidentified		He used the system to his advantage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And due to the attention, or inattention, rather, or ineptness of several people, he got the money.
		Possession is nine-tenths of the law.
		His requests are reasonable.
		I say more power to him.
		As far as employment goes, I think his actions prove he is intelligent, resourceful, creative, and so far, lucky.
		He would be an asset to any company, from DJ in Phoenix.
		That should make you feel better, Patrick.
		And bear in mind that there are a lot of computer hackers who many call criminals, and in fact, they do take criminal actions, but then they are hired by companies to protect them from people just like them.
		So that could be the case with you.
		Patrick, are you there?
		I am.
		Okay.
		Let's go east of the Rockies and say hi.
		You're on with Patrick Combs.
unidentified		Hi, this is BJ Art from Owensville, Kentucky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I was just wondering, Patrick knows a lot about the laws and everything.
unidentified		And I was wondering if he knew anything about bad check laws and about the non-negotiable thing, not really meaning anything before any of this came along.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all I wanted to know.
unidentified		Good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, when did you begin to research all this?
unidentified		I began to research this the day that, three weeks after I deposited the check, the day that a bank teller told me the money legally became mine.
		I wanted to read it for myself.
		I didn't want to move that cashier check if the teller had been wrong, on the possibility the teller had been wrong.
		As a matter of fact, I did not know what non-negotiable meant in terms of check definition until I read in the law book myself.
		I used to use the word invalid.
		You know, the check wasn't a valid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is the actual definition?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Non-negotiable.
unidentified		What I meant to say, Art, is that I used to use the word invalid until I began reading the law books three weeks after this.
unidentified		And now I understand that in banking terms it's called negotiable or non-negotiable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies again, you're on the air with Patrick Combs.
unidentified		Yeah, this is Scott from Indianapolis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Scott.
unidentified		I just want to tell Patrick, hats off to him.
		I think banks as well as many other large corporations today just get away from the customer service aspect of it.
		I don't feel like he's asking too much.
		Well, I don't either.
		The personal feel from it just isn't there anymore.
		And I think companies tend to act like we need them rather than they need us.
		And they are there for our service.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is a good point.
		And there was a day when you went to a gas station, Patrick, and they used to wipe your windows and say hi to you and check your oil and stuff.
		And banks have kind of gone the same way.
		There's not very much personal attention anymore.
		And you would think when $95,000 is involved, you know, they wouldn't be so adverse to giving you a little personal attention.
unidentified		I really appreciate the caller's comment.
		I also bring to attention that I understand that banks have, you know, they're guarding our money and they have security policies and they have to have security officers.
		My customer service complaint in this situation is that if I didn't break the law, I do believe it's wrong to call me and tell me that they're going to put policemen at my door and that I committed an act of fraud.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They froze your account, right?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a lot of money in your account?
unidentified		No, I don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that's not really doing them a lot of good?
unidentified		No, it's really, it's a non-issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You could tell them, keep my account, give me my check.
unidentified		Yeah, it would be a great trade.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, what would happen if you went into the bank and tried to get that check out?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would they have to let you get it, or could they seize it the moment you went in with your key and they put their key the way they do?
unidentified		I have no idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So right now, the safest place for that check is exactly where it is?
unidentified		Yes.
		I'm not moving the check for the bank's sake because I'm not trying to send the bank signals that I want to keep their money.
		I'm trying to send them signals that I want to give their money back.
		But at the same time, I'm trying to send them signals that I want them to treat me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a human being.
unidentified		As a human being.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not just an ATM.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You're on the air coast to coast, A.M. with Patrick Combs.
		Where are you, please?
		No, you're not.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Patrick Combs.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Tucson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tucson.
		All right.
		Are you on a speaker phone?
unidentified		No, it's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, get good and close to your phone, sir.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, go ahead.
unidentified		Well, I think we have a bit of jealousy with everybody telling them that they're going to get sick and all this because they don't think it's morally right.
unidentified		I think they should go ahead and get sick and throw up and whatever they want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you're thinking they wish they'd done it.
unidentified		Yeah, that's what I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think there's any of that in there, Patrick?
unidentified		I have no idea.
		No, I think that the I appreciate his response because to me it feels like support.
		And I can see that maybe some people would really like $95,000.
		I mean, I would like $95,000.
		Oh, sure.
		But no, I think that the first caller who really laid into me definitely feels that way because he actually believes that I have nothing going on in my life and that I'm a loser and that this Is the biggest event in my life?
		And the thing that I've actually kept track of for myself on a daily basis since this exploded in the media is that my life is bigger than this incident.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you afraid?
unidentified		This is an incident in my life.
unidentified		This didn't make my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm wondering, are you afraid that this incident will become sort of your footnote in history?
unidentified		No, no, no.
		I'm not afraid of that.
		You know, this isn't my first 15 minutes of fame either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good line.
		First time caller line.
		You're on the air with Patrick Combs.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I'm Lori from Layton, Utah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I have a problem with legally and morally.
		Morally, that money is not his, and even if he's trying to teach him a lesson, it's not his money to teach him that lesson.
		I think that that's what's wrong with society now.
		We're going downhill because legally is a lot lower than morally.
		And so I think that what he needs to do is give it back.
		He said he's not going to let them guide his actions by giving it back, by intimidating him, but yet he's willing to let their actions make him keep money that is not morally his.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, certainly banks do use intimidating tactics at times themselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		True, but he is arguing the law, technically.
unidentified		But the whole thing is, morally and ethically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He agrees with you.
unidentified		It's gone down the trope.
		And so that money isn't his to teach them the lesson.
		If he doesn't like a big bank and he doesn't think they're going to have good customer service, go to a small bank.
		The bank we bank with has three branches total, and that's it.
		They have very good customer service.
		They take care of you.
		They say hi to you every time you go in.
		They know who you are.
		So quit doing business with a big bank.
		That's stupid to say that you can teach them a lesson.
		You take your money out of the bank.
		That teaches them a lesson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And to be fair, I'm a first interstate customer myself.
		I have an account there, and they've always treated me very well.
		Now, that may vary branch to branch or person to person or manager to manager.
		I don't know.
unidentified		I like this woman a lot, and I like what she's saying.
		And I also like, this is the first bad incident that I've had with First Interstate.
		I too have had nothing but just fine experiences for the 12 years that I've been with First Interstate Bank.
		I also don't think that it really is my place to teach the bank a lesson.
		And that's why I started off this hour, and maybe she didn't hear it, by saying that this isn't for me about getting them to do anything.
		This is for me about retaining my own sense of honor.
		If I bow down because they told me they're going to wipe me out if I don't give this back, then I'm going to start living my life in fear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, I kind of agree.
		I would expect reasonable, decent treatment under the circumstances, not threats of jail and police and all the rest of it.
		This is the kind of thing that you would first, at least, first want to try to reach some kind of amicable agreement before you start calling in the federales.
		Yeah.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Patrick Combs.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		This is Kirk from Boyting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Kurt.
unidentified		I want to talk to Patrick about a check is a check is a check, and he's entirely correct.
unidentified		You know, you can write a check on a fish or a watermelon or whatever it doesn't, or just a piece of paper.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess the key is whether it's on a banana peel, I've heard him written on banana peels, if you write non-negotiable on it, that peel is still negotiable.
unidentified		Right.
		Yeah.
		Everyone has just missed the point entirely, especially the caller is about, you know, calling you immoral and all that kind of stuff.
		And I'm just, it's ridiculous.
		You know, you have done nothing wrong.
		Nothing entirely.
		I appreciate it.
		The labels of immoral don't bother me because the one thing that I've done throughout this whole thing is say, I have got to retain my integrity through doing this.
		And, you know, if I know I've retained my integrity, it may not match other people's integrity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Patrick Combs.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
unidentified		This is Derek from Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Derek.
unidentified		Yeah, I just wanted to say I applaud him for what he did.
unidentified		I think that if they were dumb enough to let it slip by and legally he can prove that he deserves the money or it doesn't violate the laws, I think he deserves to be able to keep it just on the fact of their stupidity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he doesn't agree with you exactly, right?
unidentified		No, not exactly.
		Because this isn't about their stupidity.
		Actually, I feel like it's not about their stupidity.
		I think that they have a problem in their system.
		And I bet that many banks do.
		I think that many banks are processing more checks than they have the capability to process.
		I think that banks also probably are not educating their tellers the way tellers need to be educated.
		I bet the tellers do not know that non-negotiable doesn't mean anything on a check.
		So, no, I feel for the banks and the system and the number of the checks they're processing, and maybe computers have something to do with this too.
		But I don't feel for the bank about the way an individual treated me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think a teller actually processed this, or do you think it may have been processed by a machine?
unidentified		I have no idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's an interesting question.
		And if it is, I bet they're looking real hard at the software now.
		Well, I'll leave it at that.
		First-time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yeah, what I'm saying is that any check, regardless of what's put on in front of the check, don't mean nothing.
unidentified		But what you put above where they signed, that's what's binding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure I understand that.
unidentified		All right, yeah.
unidentified		Now, if they put right above where a person signs for the check, not non-negotiable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but he never signed.
unidentified		I know he didn't, but I'm saying that Nothing on the front of a check means anything.
		I mean, you put non-negotiable on the front.
		It don't mean nothing.
		Right?
		But you put non-negotiable above where you signed for the check.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
		Would there be that's interesting.
		Would there be anything to that, Patrick?
unidentified		I don't know.
unidentified		I have no idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Patrick Combs.
unidentified		Hello, Lord.
unidentified		This is Cindy in Kansas City, Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Cindy.
unidentified		Hi, I have a question for Patrick.
		If his case should happen to go to court and he should win and the money should be his, and he does give it to charity, would he claim it on his taxes at the end of the year?
		Because I think it'd be a great tax break.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
		You said your income level was pretty good.
		You would be able to claim it then at the end of the year, right?
unidentified		Yeah, if it was a charitable giveaway, I'd have to look.
		I don't know.
		I'm not a tax expert either.
		I don't know.
		It's an excellent consideration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Stay right there.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		The After Dark newsletter was started by Art Bell back in 1995, and it's still going strong 13 years later.
		Call right now to subscribe.
		It's $39.95 for one year and contains a variety of different subjects every month, just like we do here on Coast to Coast AM.
		There are stories about the supernatural, strange science, human oddities.
		Plus, you'll find interviews with frequent guests, my monthly column, and much more.
		Call 188-727-5505 or go online at coasttocoastAM.com.
		You never know what you'll hear on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		Are you concerned at all that government is taking us down the wrong path?
		And why are they doing it?
g edward griffin ▲ ● ▼		What is the wrong path?
		The wrong path, in my view, is that government is expanding its power and individuals are losing their freedom to make decisions for themselves.
		The more crisis we have in terms of the economy, or potential terrorist attacks, or a swine flu, and all these wondrous things that are coming at us from all sources, the government comes along and says, okay, we'll solve your problem for you.
		Just allow us to expand our power and we'll take control of your lives.
		And, you know, we'll solve the problems by making you a slave.
		And then you won't have to worry about decisions anymore because we'll make all of them for you.
		So anybody that's awake, I would say, should share my concern that, yes, the government is leading us down the wrong path.
		And it's primarily because we're allowing it.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of August 21st, 1995, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Music Now, back to Patrick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Patrick, I'm going to let you go here at the top of the hour because you sound tired.
		I know you're in Kansas City.
		It's got to be coming up on 4 o'clock and you've got to get up in about two hours.
		But I do want to ask this.
		If it comes down to it, Patrick, and you're facing jail, possibility of actually going to jail, or giving the money back, and the bank has not budged, and they still have a foul attitude as far as you're concerned, would you then give it back or go to the pokey?
unidentified		I'd probably give it back because my work is really important to me.
		I mean, tomorrow I'm doing a leadership retreat for 140 students.
		I'm not going to go to jail for this and stop doing my work.
		I love my work.
		So I would doubt that I would choose to go to jail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If they push it that far, then...
unidentified		I believe the bank has a bigger legal staff than I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By a lawyer or two.
		All very interesting.
		You're just one of those people who have done one of those things that it will be at least in your life a footnote.
		Look, I'm giving you a chance to plug your book.
		You've spent two hours with me, and that's above and beyond the call of duty out in your time zone.
		It was the NBC story that caught my attention last night, so I could not resist.
		So plug your book.
unidentified		My book is called Major in Success.
		It's about being successful in your career and in your life.
		And the highest compliment that I keep receiving since it's been published is people write to me every week about my book, and what they say is, I read the whole thing cover to cover without putting it down.
		It's the first book I've ever done that on.
		And, you know, when I published that book, I fully expected that it might fall into the category that all books do, which is 90% of books aren't read.
		People read the whole thing, and it only takes a couple hours, but at the end, they say that it changed their life, that it's the first book that really made sense to them on how to become successful and find a job that they love and tap back into that passion for something that they've always wanted to do but didn't think was possible.
		They're all doable steps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so how do they get your book?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where is it?
unidentified		It's in bookstores.
		It's in all major bookstores.
		I have had the finest time on your show, and I want to compliment you from the bottom of my heart that I wanted serious treatment of this subject exactly the way you made it happen.
		I wanted people to get to exercise their right to morals and values about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you have them.
		Those who have accused you of not having them, I think, have been unfair to you.
		It is the way people are, though.
		And you have acknowledged you have no moral right nor claim on the money.
		However, there are some principles, and it just seems to me that what you're asking is not unreasonable, that they deal with you on a human basis, that they restore your account.
		That's it.
		You don't want part of the money.
		You don't want a pound of flesh.
		You just want reasonable treatment.
		And I'll bet you that you'll get it.
		I'll bet you perhaps as a result of this show, I mean, I'm sure there's a bunch of bank people listening to this right now and Listening to you.
		And my guess is that's what they'll do when you get back.
		When do you go back to San Francisco?
unidentified		August 31st.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		August 31st.
unidentified		Well, that's a while yet, isn't it?
unidentified		All my speaking engagements right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Patrick, I wish you all the luck in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if anything should happen and they give you only one call, call me.
unidentified		I absolutely would.
		All right.
		Thank you so much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, my friend, and say hi to Mr. Markham if you should happen to run into him now or in another life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 21st, 1995.
		We'll be right back.
		You're listening to Mark Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an onboard presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 21st, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I told you, this is the kind of talk radio where anything can happen.
		Usually does.
		This is Coast to Coast AM Live Talk Radio Throughout the Nighttime, the largest live overnight program in America.
		From Blaine in Honolulu, how about this for an ethical question?
		Check this out, folks.
		I work for a TV station.
		The station was recently sold.
		The old owners did not stop the automatic deposits.
		So even after they no longer owned us, and technically I no longer worked for them, they accidentally put money in my bank account via automatic deposit.
		They cannot legally remove it without my permission.
		There it sits.
		What would you do with it?
unidentified		Hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he does, well, yes, he does sign it.
		Lane in Honolulu, Hawaii.
		Interesting question, not dissimilar to Patrick's dilemma at the moment.
unidentified		You're welcome to talk about anything you like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought the encounter show last night was fabulous, all about Noah's Ark.
		They think they found Noah's Ark in eastern Turkey on Mount Ararat, May 15, 1948, the very day the nation of Israel was created.
		You believe in coincidences, there was an earthquake, and one of our satellites saw what may be Noah's Ark.
		To give you some idea of how real this may be, the possibility, numerically, that this is something out of nature as opposed to the real thing are 100,000 to 1.
		It is a military surveillance photo that found it.
		I saw it.
		An archaeologist, in fact the very guy who the Indiana Jones movies were modeled after, is beginning a dig on Mount Ararat this summer.
		Now, this thing that they think is Noah's Ark is larger than the Queen Mary.
		Try and imagine that.
		Larger than the Queen Mary, what would it be doing up on Mount Ararat if it is not Noah's Ark?
		On the other hand, if it is Noah's Ark, oh my, that's going to change a lot of things, isn't it?
		There are a number of stories right now in the headlines, including the Roswell or wherever autopsy films, and we had real breaking news on that on Dreamland Sunday to Noah's Ark.
		You know, we're at a very interesting precipice right now, this human race of ours.
		And it's a very narrow little fence we're sitting on.
		And I really frankly wonder what would occur socially if they prove this is Noah's Ark on Mount Ararat.
		Try and imagine it.
		Try and think about it.
		Try and dream about it.
		What if this is it and they think it is?
		What does that mean?
		Paramount, actually, when you think about it.
		It happened once before.
		The earth flooded so that mankind basically, with the exception of those who were saved in Noah's Ark, perished.
		Everybody else gone.
		The animals two by two, remember?
		Could this be it?
		If it is, what does it mean?
		Quite a bit.
		If these aliens that are depicted in this film are real, what does that mean?
		I should say quite a bit.
		Going to be broadcast on Fox August 28th, worldwide, in fact.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Arthur in Santa Clara.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Arthur.
unidentified		I think it is the ark on Mount Arararat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ararat, you think it is, eh?
unidentified		Yeah, they've sent expositions to it.
unidentified		The last one was Buzz Aldrin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, all signs are pointing toward it actually being Noah's Ark.
unidentified		Well, the people that live around there have been on the actual ark for years, but it's in Turkey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		turkeys in turkey right and uh...
unidentified		they have to get permission to uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And as I said, this archaeologist is beginning in the summer of 95, that is now, the dig.
unidentified		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess we'll know soon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of effect would you think it would have socially around the world to learn that's real?
unidentified		Well, it proved that that part of the Bible is true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said it all, sir.
		You said it all.
		It proves that part of the Bible is true.
		And with real scientific proof that a major portion, frankly an unbelievable portion of the Bible for a lot of people, is true.
		The whole Noah's Ark story, you think that'll have an impact?
		You bet it will.
		If we are at that magic moment when we're about to prove aliens are real, will that have an effect?
		Oh, you bet your bottom dollar it will.
		There are a number of stories right now that are really, really interesting.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		I'm Carl Obix, still first-time caller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hey, I'm calling about Mr. Combs and his check.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And, you know, there's a couple of considerations that need to be taken into consideration, and one is the tax liability.
unidentified		It would seem that as soon as that money went into his account, anything over $10,000 is going to be reported to the IRS.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure that's correct.
unidentified		So even if he gets to keep the money, he's going to have a big tax liability on it, $95,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, sure.
		You know, but you run out and you buy some IRAs and you do what you can.
		But you're right.
		But that would not occur, I think, until legally it was determined that it was his money.
unidentified		Well, I'm not sure though, because I think once it goes in his account, that the IRS takes note of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they take note of it, but if he ultimately does not retain the money, then I doubt they could tax him on it.
unidentified		Yeah, that's true.
unidentified		Another thing is the federal government is going to be involved in this because anything that deals with banking comes under the federal jurisdiction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as a matter of fact, thank you.
		It was the Fed that finally, you know, that check cleared, I think he said three banks.
		Three banks.
		And then finally it got to the Fed and they caught it.
unidentified		That's amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know the kind of check we're talking about.
		He didn't even mention the company.
		It doesn't matter because everybody gets a million of them, right?
		This much money, this check could be yours.
		It could be real.
		Well, according to Patrick, the words non-negotiable don't mean a thing.
		I wonder how many people are going to be checking their mailboxes, digging through their trash for whatever might have come yesterday.
		I wonder how many ATM machines out there are going to be filling up on these kinds of checks.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, where are you?
unidentified		I'm out of Hillsboro, Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hillsboro, Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I'm listing on KJC, KGCF, is it?
		KGCI?
		Anyway, DeSoto Station.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Would you like to have quite a bit of more information on Vendel Indiana Jones?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what can you tell us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He is the archaeologist who's doing the dig.
unidentified		I'm all familiar with him.
unidentified		I'm a contributor to his work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell us, you know, give us a thumbnail sketch.
unidentified		Yes, a small contributor, and I'm a first-time caller.
unidentified		I was a little disturbed with the photograph in the Fox Network viewing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
unidentified		It showed no snow on the mountain, and there evidently must have been a previous expedition.
		And Vendel was along as the biblical advisor.
		And on that expedition, they deliberately went up there when there was a snow cover over the ark so that the ground radar could be slid along the smooth snow without vibrations and to get better imaging of what's below.
		Now they found out that each of the chambers within the ark were of the same total area capacity.
		Regardless of the shape of the ark, each of the chambers were of the same capacity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow, so there's a symmetry to it.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		They found out that they had the, of course, it showed one of the stones, it showed the stones that they used over the sides of the ark to stabilize it in the heavy seas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And yes, and they did, and they called them anchors.
unidentified		Yes, and the ark also had an opening in the floor engineered so that as the thing would go up and down, it would breathe at the same rate as a human being.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's incredible.
unidentified		And it would get rid of the refuse of the animal, and at the same time, it would replace the air in the ark.
		So it constantly got fresh air, and I forget how many cycles per minute this thing would go up and down, and automatically from the work of the ocean and the water, it would automatically breathe as a human being and replace the air and get rid of the refuge.
		And there's considerably more that they found out from this ground imaging radar that they Drug over the snowbank that was over the ark.
		Now, the most interesting thing of the ark is that it was made of reeds, and the reeds were basically destroyed by other humans that got in the area and by rock.
		But inside the ark, it was plastered with a concrete substance, and that concrete was still intact after all of these centuries.
		And it had minute particles of metal in the concrete.
		And they have no idea how or what the concrete was constituted of.
		They cannot duplicate it to this day.
		They sent it to several laboratories, and they have no idea how Noah developed this concrete to plaster the inside of the ark.
		And that's why the image of the ark is still visible today, because of this concrete liner that was on the inside of the ark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, the metallic content allows the radar return.
unidentified		Evidently, it was as though the sand they used in the concrete had minute particles of metal in the sand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, well, it would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there are minerals, and it may be that what they used had a high mineral content.
unidentified		Yes, yes.
		Now, but further what you don't know, and by the way, you ought to have Vendel on your program.
		You can spend 10 hours with him easily.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'd love to, and if you know of any way I can do that.
unidentified		Yes, I have a phone number for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a fax machine?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you hold on the line for a moment?
unidentified		Well, now, let's continue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We will continue, but I want you to hold for a moment, all right?
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you hold?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then hold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what I'm going to do is take a quick break and get that phone number, and we'll be right back.
unidentified		Thank you.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 21st, 1995.
		Coast to Coast AM from August 21st, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I've got the information this caller gave me back now to the caller on the line about Noah's Ark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're back on the air, sir.
unidentified		Yes, and you can call me Herr Wilhelm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Herr Wilhelm.
unidentified		All right.
		You're missing the most important excavation Wendel is on.
		He is about to unearth the Ark of the Covenant, the Tabernacle Tent, and all of the temple artifacts of the ancient Hebrew temple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, sir, I've not missed it.
		I am aware of that search as well.
		I've seen a number of programs on it recently, and so I am very well aware of it.
unidentified		He's going back in November and December, and he will probably unearth it probably then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I am aware of it.
		Thank you for the call, sir.
		And here's what I would say.
		Whether it's the Ark of the Covenant, truly an important find, or Noah's Ark on Mount Ararat, proving so many things at one time, it is going to force the world, it is going to force the world to look at the Bible afresh, wouldn't you say?
		To discover the Ark of the Covenant, to discover Noah's Ark.
		Either one of these two would cause the entire world, all religions, to review suddenly what's contained in the Bible.
		It would change many, many things.
		There would, of course, be people who would not believe anything.
		But for the vast majority, if it is proven to them scientifically, oh, believe me, it's going to bring on a lot of changes.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Cancel through false.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Hi, I used to work in a bank and No, I was in Dad Antry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I agree, something needs to be done about those checks because we got so many in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		And we had a system that caught them.
		But I didn't hear the whole interview.
		Did this check have a bank routing number on it?
		Did he ever say that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
		All I know is he told us it went through three banks, and finally the bank that caught it was the federal bank.
		You know, the Federal Reserve.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Well, I have a hard time believing it would go through three banks if it didn't have a routing number on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And here we've got a $95,000-plus check that is not endorsed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He never endorsed it.
unidentified		That is unreal.
		But if there is a legitimate bank on that check and a legitimate routing number, I would say it's that bank's problem.
		Whoever this company banks with that sent the check out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, that's what Patrick suggested, and it seems to me if they can't get the money from Patrick, the bank is probably legally, if the case is that the non-negotiable is in fact negotiable, oh, I'll tell you, this is going to bring on many changes.
unidentified		Yes, it will.
		That's probably a big legal battle between banks and bank against customer.
		Yes.
		So he just went down in the first place and deposited to see if he could get away with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All he did was take it and put it in a deposit envelope, throw it into the ATM, punch up the numbers, and waited a few days, and the money showed up in his account.
unidentified		Well, I don't think he'll end up getting to keep it, but if he does, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you?
unidentified		Would I?
unidentified		I would be too scared to spend any of it, and I think he is too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he hasn't.
		Now, now he went out and he got a bank.
		What do you call it?
		Not a money order, but a cashier's check in that amount and put it in a safety deposit box.
		In fact, one of First Interstate's own.
unidentified		Well, yeah, he's covering his butt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can't wait to see how this comes out.
unidentified		Yeah, well, keep us posted.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, believe me, we will.
		This is the program that stays on top of weird stories, no matter how weird they may be.
		I worry I'm going to get a call from him in the pokey somewhere.
		But he did say coming down to giving the money back or going to the pokey, he would definitely give the money back.
		That remains to be seen.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		KQ Messritt in California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, good morning to you.
unidentified		Well, good morning.
unidentified		know, I didn't get to call you and say congratulations, that you have two of the radio stations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, um...
unidentified		I was going to let you publish my picture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's too late now.
unidentified		You threw them out, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't say I threw him out, but we already went through the photograph thing with the publisher.
		For your newsletter?
		No, oh, no, no, no, no, for my book.
unidentified		Your book?
unidentified		You were going to put my picture in your book?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought about it.
unidentified		Well, oh, well.
unidentified		You can still publish them if you want, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I'll think it over.
		I mean, you initially didn't want it published.
unidentified		Yeah, well, I feel prettier now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You feel prettier?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, do you want to take another picture?
unidentified		No.
unidentified		Oh, very funny.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to say.
unidentified		Sorry.
		You know what?
		I think that FM radio station thing would be cool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is cool.
unidentified		I think it would be really neat.
unidentified		I could have my own radio station.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		You know, to be in in the 90s, you have to have a conspiracy theory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		So, yeah, I'd be conspiracy theory radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, really who could do it well would be somebody in an apartment building.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They could broadcast, I would think, to the majority of the apartment building.
		It would be funny.
		Yeah, you could have, boy, you could have a lot of fun with something like that.
unidentified		I know.
		And it's only $34.
		I could sit here and bother my neighbors for $34.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you mean determine what station they're listening to and zoom in on it?
unidentified		Or something.
		I don't know.
		I'm just thinking all the, I'm thinking of all the practical joke applications.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they're endless.
unidentified		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely endless.
		Yeah, sure.
		You could probably go on and do an end-of-the-world broadcast, you know?
unidentified		Oh, yeah, you mean like what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The comet we've been tracking is incoming quickly, check the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You could interview an astronomer who would say, yes, it's going to be impacting the Earth in 24 hours.
unidentified		You can watch everybody.
unidentified		You know how cruel that would be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then see how many ambulances arrived at the front of your apartment building.
unidentified		Or how many police cars, maybe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many bodies went sailing past your window?
unidentified		Or how many FCC agents come to my house?
unidentified		But you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it's, you know, obviously these are fully legal.
		It's just that they never made any really good ones, and now they've made this very stable, state-of-the-art FM transmitter.
		I mean, technology has come a long way, and it's even in stereo with the sub-carrier and all.
		It's amazing.
unidentified		So, like, could I boost its power in any way?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, see, depend on you to ask a question that I can't deal with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so I don't want to answer.
unidentified		Oh, you know what?
unidentified		The guy with the check, I am so jealous that I did not think of that first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate your honesty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
unidentified		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm not saying that the people who came down on this case really hard were jealous, but I'll bet you some of them were, huh?
unidentified		I know.
		Bloomingdale's look out.
		That's all I'd have to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
unidentified		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
		See you later.
		This check could be yours.
		Non-negotiable.
		New way of looking at all that, huh?
unidentified		New way of looking at all
		New way of looking at all that, huh?
		that, huh?
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 21st, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here is a facts from a very talented person.
		This is the guy who's doing my book cover.
		The cover for my book, he's the artist.
		And he says, hey, Art, Patrick has probably saved banks a lot with this one incident.
		He's saving them money.
		I can't believe an arrogant bank officer can't admit their mistake and have lunch with Patrick.
		I can only hope that somebody associated with his bank heard your show, and the word gets back to the bank.
		One listen to this, and they would know the guy is very intelligent.
		He beat them, and now he appears smarter than them.
		Also, when are you going to let me know about the cigarette on the book cover?
		Right now, John, and this relates to something else going on in the news.
		As you know, Franklin Roosevelt has been depicted for years and years and years the way he was with a big cigarette holder in his mouth in profile.
		Now, I've got a choice of doing a, it's going to be a wonderful book cover, hardback book, by the way, my book.
		And there has been the choice of putting the cigarette, which, and I do smoke them, in with this incredibly, wonderfully done art, or excluding the cigarette.
		And I hereby say, include it.
		I refuse to go the way Roosevelt apparently is getting ready to go, and that is to have his image change.
		I smoke, and while I'm not proud of it, I am certainly not going to play anybody's politically correct, stupid game.
		John, put the cigarette in.
		I smoke them.
		It's real.
		I'm no Franklin Roosevelt.
		I didn't mean to compare myself, but in the sense that I'm not going to bow to the political correct crowd that can all go jump in the largest lake they can find, long walk off, a short pier, all that kind of thing.
		No, put it in is the answer.
		Wild card line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hold on in just a second.
		There we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good deal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in Haver, Montana, on a cellular.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And I'm real sorry I missed Patrick.
unidentified		I tried to get in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
unidentified		I want to compliment him, I hope he's still listening, with the integrity that he's shown in this whole ordeal.
unidentified		And he should expect no less than the same from the bank.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess I agree with that.
		In other words, the guy is not saying he's going to keep the money.
		He's saying, though, that the law, even though it may be a quirk, really is, in his view, on his side.
		And all he wants is maybe a lunch and a letter and his bank account back.
		That's all.
unidentified		Yeah, and that's not a reasonable.
unidentified		That's a reasonable request.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think not.
unidentified		I would like to have seen him put it in an interest-bearing account in another bank.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I thought about that myself.
unidentified		The hardship that he's going to encounter over this, if any, it'd be nice to know he got a little something out of it if he had to give it back.
unidentified		At least enough to pay for his time and trouble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe he'll end up doing us all a favor.
		Now, I may have given him this idea and somebody criticized me for that, but I'll tell you something.
		I'm sick of getting those checks that really aren't checks myself.
		And if this stops that practice, then I'm all for it.
unidentified		I agree completely.
unidentified		This is basically poetic justice for the little old lady in South Carolina that I read about a few years back that misunderstood the check and thought she already had won and went charged up on her credit card.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
		Now, see, I hadn't heard that one.
		Oh, God, that's awful.
		You mean somebody got one of those checks?
		Oh, that's terrible.
		Little old lady in South Carolina thought she had actually won the money when she saw the check, went out, ran her credit cards.
		Oh, that's very sad.
		Some of the checks do look very, very real.
		And what really, I guess, annoys me more than anything else is they put them in the kind of envelope where you can just see a part of the check.
		You know, like a one and a whole bunch of zeros after it and your name.
		So there is a kind of a poetic justice to it.
		And frankly, a couple of people hit Patrick pretty hard on the moral angle.
		But the truth of the matter is, if you listen to him, he does want to give the money.
		He's trying to give the money back.
		He would like to give the money back.
		And his demands, if you want to call them that, are not that outrageous.
		Or maybe from your point of view, they are.
		But I mean, the guy's got a life.
		He's got to continue to have a bank account.
		And I don't know.
		I'm sure we'll get more reaction.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Sir.
		Let me ask.
		I'm not even sure I have the right number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait, but you might not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who are you trying to reach?
unidentified		I'm trying to reach Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've got the right number then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
unidentified		Question.
		Did you hear the deal?
		Let me turn this lower.
		Did you hear the deal about the James Norman?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, turn your radio on.
unidentified		I got it off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		James Norman, no.
unidentified		Works for Forbes Magazine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		He wrote an article, and Forbes would not publish it, so he got media bypass to publish it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Foster.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Call toll-free, 1-800-618-8255.
		Yeah, I know.
		I am aware of.
unidentified		You're aware of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am aware of the story, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, where are you calling from?
unidentified		From Louisiana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Louisiana, all right.
unidentified		So, yes, I think I heard the end of a story yesterday as I was coming in from the event that I think that James lost his job.
unidentified		James Norman lost his job because of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because he published that article?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, was he under exclusive contract to Forbes?
unidentified		Here's what they told him.
		I'm not sure, but they told him you can publish it somewhere else, but we can't publish it.
		Again, he said that Forbes went on to publish it.
		I tried to get hold of the magazine.
		I don't know when they come out.
		I don't know.
		But anyway, the White House, this is the last I heard yesterday, the White House told Forbes not to publish it, to quash this.
		They didn't want this out.
		You know, that is a damn shame.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is.
		I cannot confirm any aspects of that story, of course.
		I guess Forbes, it would depend on the nature of the contract that he had with Forbes.
		I don't know whether he was just under contract or whether he was a freelance journalist that did work for Forbes, actually on the payroll.
		It's going to depend on a lot of facts, and we're going to have to wait and see.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, turn your radio off.
unidentified		He's taking it outside.
unidentified		Anyway, I wanted to talk about Patrick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		First, I'm Marion from Reno.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I was in total agreement the minute I heard it.
		I was going, that's great, because several years ago, they messed up, First Interstate messed up my account and deducted $200 from it that I hadn't spent.
		So I stayed up all night, got all my records in order and everything, took it down to their bank.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And the teller said, well, I can't look at it.
unidentified		If you want to have this fixed, you have to hire an accountant for $35 an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Wouldn't even listen to me, wouldn't even talk about it, and I ended up $200 that I couldn't afford.
unidentified		So I'm just glad that he's drawing attention.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So to you it is poetic justice, eh?
unidentified		Yeah, it is.
unidentified		I don't think he's going to keep the money by the way he talked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In a way, I agree with you.
		I mean, that's awful.
		if you have all the records to prove your case, then somebody, some human being at the bank should be willing to sit down with you and go through it just as a as a service to a customer.
unidentified		Right.
		And especially what I really appreciate is, I mean, I, you know, $200 to them is not that big of a deal.
		But to me, it was a whole week's wages, you know, and no, I hear you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you, and thank you.
		I agree with that lady.
		That's awful.
		You know, and it's not just First Interstate, but it's all of the banks.
		Things are changing, and banks are becoming more technical.
		Everything's being handled now by a computer.
		And there's less chance of human interaction.
		There was a day in America where you knew your teller.
		You know, you knew her by or him by name.
		And, you know, things like this didn't get in the way.
		If there was a mistake, you sat down with them and you worked it out.
		A bank was like a partner.
		And I'm sure, sure, from a PR point of view, they want it to appear that way today.
		And in fact, it should be that way.
		But it is, it's, sadly, it is changing and all of us are becoming numbers.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, York, this is Milton in Phoenix, Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Milton.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
unidentified		Real good.
		You know, I was trying to get a hold when Pat was on the air because I work at a bank here in Phoenix, and I can kind of understand a little bit about where he's coming from.
		And you had made a comment about how they process the items.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, you know, I asked a question.
		In other words, does a human do that or does a machine do it?
unidentified		Well, the machines do it.
		You see, what happens when a person takes a check into the bank, they take it into the tellers, tellers put all their figures into it and give the money out.
		That's basically all they do.
		And then it goes over to a bunch of other people who sit there and all they do is encode the dollar amounts on the checks.
		And then from there, it goes into the machines which processes the checks.
		And it all does it electronically.
		And if all those little numbers at the bottom of the check are on there, then the item is good and it'll pocket and nothing will ever be seen until it's got some way, sometime later down the road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then how do you feel about his position?
		I mean, you heard what he wanted.
		You know what happened.
unidentified		Yeah, I was at the same time he was on the air.
unidentified		I was also on his web.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you were?
unidentified		Yeah, I was.
unidentified		I kind of brought everything over down onto my system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you've got a photograph.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope somebody will take some of what's on his web page and send it to me, attach it to a message on AOL, and I'll get it up on our bulletin board, too.
unidentified		Well, you know, I'll see what I can do about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you, if, you know, the trouble is it can't come in some kind of format other than an actual GIF.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's got to come GIF or I can't use it.
unidentified		Okay, yours is what, Artbell AOL com?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Artbell at AOL.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's my email address.
unidentified		Okay, but like I was saying, you know, if the machine reads all the microline down at the bottom, because any check you'll be able to see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, what about this?
		How do banks know I have occasionally made a mistake and First Interstate always caught it, you know, forgetting to endorse a check.
		He didn't endorse the check.
unidentified		Well, that, I believe, was a teller's mistake, because they're really the only ones who would catch that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you imagine, all right, are you a teller?
unidentified		No, I'm not.
unidentified		I'm not in the operations center.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it possible to understand how a teller, I mean, $95,000, that's a big check.
		That is.
		And how could a teller look at a check for $95,000 and not check to see that there was an endorsement?
unidentified		Well, I think that's a mistake the teller making.
		If I was like the manager of that branch, I wouldn't have that teller there.
		But that's not a position I'm in, unfortunately.
		But most of the time, I have seen so many checks come through that have said non-negotiable, but people try to cash them, and sellers pass them right through.
		Anything from a buck and a half on up to...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you mean a lot of this may be done and never caught?
unidentified		That's very possible.
g edward griffin ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		Wow.
unidentified		That's amazing!
		Here's what you missed on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		Is this a plan to break us here in this country and make the entire planet on a more even keel?
g edward griffin ▲ ● ▼		I definitely think it is.
		I mean, the people that are making these moves, they give speeches on it, they teach it in school.
		You know, this business of redistribution of the wealth, destruction of national sovereignty, these things have been written about and talked openly about for quite a while.
		And that's what they're trying to create for the United States.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of August 21st, 1995, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcardline, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yeah, hey, Mr. Bell, can I respond there to your guess there that you had there, Patrick there with the money?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, I would like to encourage him to contribute as much as he can to the country of Iraq as a friend of Saddam Hussein.
unidentified		I would like to encourage him to contribute as much money as he can to the country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me stop you right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you a friend of Saddam Hussein?
unidentified		Saddam Israel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you a friend of Saddam's?
unidentified		Yeah, I'm a friend of Saddam, and I would like to give some of our old Adam bombs to Saddam so he could drop it on Israel.
unidentified		The parasitic Jew leeches that are sucking our lifeblood out of our country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well.
		Did you catch the slight whiff of anti-Semitism there?
		That wasn't just a whiff.
		That was a full-blown blow in the nose, wasn't it?
unidentified		Want to give that money to Saddam so he can bomb Israel with nuclear weapons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
		Hello there.
		Goodbye.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Ark.
		I'm calling from Fairbanks, where we get your first two hours last.
		This question has been asked.
		I apologize.
		But my point with Patrick is why is it not the company's fault who issued this check?
		If he's correct, that non-negotiable does not make a check non-negotiable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Apparently not.
unidentified		Why shouldn't they be responsible for paying for it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what?
		Legally, he suggested in the end they may be.
		In other words, if that constitutes a valid check, then it may be that the bank, if they can't get it from Patrick, is going to have to take legal steps to try and get the issuer to pay it.
		Look, I'm no attorney.
		I have no idea.
		But there is that possibility.
		And if that should be the case, I would imagine a lot of people going through their trash right now, real quick.
		And I worry that there's going to be a lot of checks and a lot of ATM machines and a lot of tellers are going to, there's going to be a red alert going out to every teller in the U.S. later today.
		Look out, here it comes.
unidentified		But you know, as you stated, Art, and I think many of us out here, I hate that kind of junk mail.
		And there are people such as this little lady that we heard about in North Carolina, this elderly lady, that are fooled by this, that are taken in by it.
		And maybe this is what it will take to stop that nonsense.
		So maybe a lot of good will come out of what Patrick did.
		And I, for one, think he took the right approach.
		I like his attitude.
		He's not trying to cheat them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure he had thought of that attitude.
		I kind of gave him that idea, and then a caller kind of jumped on my case for giving him that idea.
		But it is reasonable, and I'm sick of that kind of mail.
		And if it stops it, then I'm glad.
unidentified		And I am, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Thank you for your show, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for your call, ma'am.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Donna from Bakersfield.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, this is East of the Rockies, dear.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to call 1-800-618-8-8255?
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		Yes, this is East.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
		No, you're not.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Boy, that rang a bell there when you're talking about the telephone company.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, haven't you ever had that happen?
unidentified		Oh, that rang a bell.
		I'm not making a pun either.
		Oh, boy.
		When I was young, my mom sent me to the store one time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And she gave me X amount of money to go to the store and buy something for her.
		And I went to the store, and they did not have what she wanted.
		And I put, this was 42 years old, so this is a long time ago.
		I put in a quarter and called her and said, well, they don't have what you want it.
		She goes, well, then try and get this other thing.
		And then hung up the phone and I didn't get any change.
		And I'll never forget that my entire life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what was it supposed to be, a 10-cent call?
unidentified		Well, it was a nickel then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was a nickel?
unidentified		Yeah.
		Or a dime.
		I don't know, whatever.
		But anyway, it didn't give me any change.
		Then I didn't have enough money to get the other things she wanted.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
unidentified		And I've never forgot that my whole life.
unidentified		I said, I don't know how they can make these machines that they don't give you change.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, it's even, thank you, it's even worse than that.
		Look, I went to a car wash not long ago.
		And the car wash swallowed $5 of my money.
		This is one of those things where you put bills in, right?
		And it swallowed $5.
		And so I left a big note there, you know, hoping that whoever managed the car wash, I left my name and phone number and address and stuff.
		And I thought whoever managed the car wash would make it right, but they didn't.
		So I realized that this is, I suppose, an example of maybe even the quick inning.
		But I consider me and machines to be about even.
		Machines and me.
		Anyway, in our relationship, they have, in my opinion, taken more from me than I have taken from them.
		So I know that sounds like rationalization, and it may be, but it's life in the modern world.
		Maybe we'll talk about this some tomorrow.
		Sort of ethics, situational ethics 101, if you will, for modern America.
		Thank you very much.
		It was a lot of fun.
		Talk radio is best when it is different, he says.

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