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Aug. 20, 1995 - Art Bell
01:24:44
Dreamland with Art Bell - Linda Moulton Howe - Alien Autopsy Film - Robert Morningsky - Hopi Indians
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Time Text
This hour of Art Bell was recorded for rebroadcast at this time.
Please do not call.
Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put
in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
This is Dreamland.
Indeed, someday again, Dreamland on the air.
It's going to be quite a program.
This evening.
I'm Art Bell.
Glad to be here.
We've got yet another new station joining the Dreamland Network.
It is KZIM in Cape Girardeau, Missouri.
That's KZIM, Cape Girardeau, Missouri.
Home, of course, of Rush Limbaugh.
Glad to have them on board.
They also carry the regular program during the week.
Now, Dreamland.
All right.
Let me give you a thumbnail sketch.
Of what's coming up.
In a moment, I understand there is breaking news in England.
Breaking news regarding the Roswell photographs.
Where is our Linda Howe?
You guessed it, just outside London.
She'll be with us in just a moment.
And she has a guest with her, George Wingfield, who has now seen 30 minutes, 30 minutes of the autopsy.
uh... film so uh... look out for that coming up following that
uh... robert morning sky honored to have
robert morning sky with us and if we're lucky uh... linda howell will be right here linda
are you there yes i can hear me clearly
uh... you know sometimes linda i swear we get a better connection when you're
in uh... england than we do when you're in philadelphia
So is this clear tonight?
Clear as a bell.
All right.
Well, I want to say to our new Missouri listeners that the 4th Annual Midwest UFO Conference in Springfield, Missouri is on September 9th and 10th, and there is a number for tickets.
This has been a wonderful conference.
Susan Bedell has been an organizer there for the last three or four years.
And if we can, I'd like to give a phone number for people who could contact Susan Vidal because I think this is a very good conference worth attending.
It's area code 417-882-6847 in Springfield, Missouri.
And that will be September 9th and 10th.
And it's good to know we've got another station in Missouri.
Yes, it is.
Linda, where are you in England, actually?
In Peterborough, north of London, about an hour.
I drove here to meet George Wingfield about halfway, coming back from the Sheffield English Conference, which was held this weekend by the British UFO Research Association, known as BUFORA.
And one of the main subjects was the controversial alleged autopsy of a non-human being first introduced to the public by Ray Santilli in London on May 5th.
And with me is George Wingfield, an English researcher who spoke with us on Dreamland at the Seattle MUFON conference, and who has now been talking with Ray Santilli about new developments in this story.
And he, George, attended this conference where Santilli screened a little more than 30 minutes of the black and white footage of both an autopsy and pieces of debris from what is now described as a crash site near Socorro, New Mexico, not Roswell.
George, can you describe for us what you did see this weekend on film?
Well on film I saw the autopsy sequence which I'd already seen on May the 5th in London and in addition to that I also saw some of the debris some of which bore hieroglyphics and also a very strange looking what appeared to be a control panel or some kind of setting which had the imprints of Alien hands, if we accept these are six-fingered alien hands in the control panel.
Very strange.
Meaning that there were depressions for six finger pads?
Two and two, so there were twelve finger pads all together that you could see on the film?
That's correct, yes.
There were two hand prints, and these were six-fingered hands.
Beyond the fingertips were what appeared to be buttons, which There were two rows of buttons in semicircular arcs beyond the fingertips, and there were a number of grooves.
This is an odd-looking device, I must say.
George, George, excuse me, Linda, Linda, Linda and George.
Yes, there was definitely something which looked like an I-beam.
It was of that sort of section, and there was sort of quite a wide band of hieroglyphics on that.
You said this was now a clearer presentation of some of this footage.
Was there anything about this now that struck you as being particularly impressive to you as being the autopsy of something that was not human?
Well, I think seeing it the second time through, you notice an awful lot of detail which you probably missed the first time through.
Uh, the people who are viewing this for the first time, uh, I think some of them were shocked or, um, really quite, um, turned off by what they were looking at because, uh, most people are not familiar with autopsies, and this is really in your face, and I don't think there's much doubt about it that, uh, what was being autopsied was a corpse of some variety and not, as some people would have you believe, a plastic dummy.
Alright, um, uh, are you able to hear me?
Yeah.
Okay, may I ask George a couple of questions, Linda?
Okay.
George, the apparatus that you were describing, the control board, was this sort of a piece of wreckage, or were you looking at a larger part of a craft?
I don't quite understand.
No, it was a piece of wreckage.
It appeared to have been broken off, and it was part of some console, maybe something of this kind.
Wow.
And the fact that it had those six finger depressions is interesting, Art, because I know that several years ago there was a man working in intelligence in the United States who told me that he had seen some kind of a console in film that had finger pad depressions.
And I always had the idea that it was the four long fingered hands that we've had described all these years.
Perhaps the truth is that there is something about these six fingers that is a reality and we've all been thought or been told that it was something other than that.
All right.
Well, this seems to be a big turnaround and all of a sudden I'm sensing that both of you now feel This footage is the real thing, is that correct?
Well, can I make my position clear?
I think it's too early to make a definite decision on that, and I still hold back.
I still sit on the fence until some more research has been done and that the cameraman has been properly questioned about everything that went on in his story.
Now, I do have the details of his story, which I'll go through here.
It shouldn't take too long, but the detail is fascinating and rather shocking, in fact.
And I'll also say that at this conference in Sheffield, Michael Hessemann spoke, and he has put more research into this than any other UFO researcher.
I've worked quite closely with him.
Yeah, Michael Hessemann is from Germany, Art, and has been a publisher of several books and articles concerning the crop circles and other aspects of UFO research, and he has really gotten into the investigation of this Ray Santilli film.
Go ahead, George.
Michael Hesselman recently, that is in July, went out to New Mexico and he did quite a lot of research,
including a visit to the site which the cameraman clearly indicated was where this crash had occurred,
which is, I think, approximately between 15 and 20 miles southwest of Socorro, New Mexico.
In the plains of St.
Augustine.
That's right, and it's, um, off on the end of a dirt road about 10 miles off the highway, uh, down towards the south from the road which leads from From Socorro to Magdalena, for those of you who know that part of the world.
I can say some more about this later, but let me just make Michael Hesselman's position clear.
He gave an absolutely brilliant lecture this afternoon in Sheffield.
You could have heard a pin drop because people hung on every word.
And as I say, he's done a lot of research here.
He said, this film may very well be authentic.
I don't say this film is definitely the real thing.
I only say that everything we checked out, checked out in favor of it.
Indications that it might be a hoax did not check out.
We have more indications that it is the real thing than we have against it.
And that is a remarkable statement.
And what is it that the cameraman himself has released as his own story about how he came to film this film?
Well, let me just run roughly through the cameraman story, and I'll put a few quotations in here because I have the words in front of me.
The cameraman was in the military from 1942 to 1952.
Despite having polio as a child, he managed to join the Army Air Force as a cameraman.
He worked exclusively as a cameraman in intelligence capacity, and he had top-secret clearance.
Um, he filmed such things as part of the Manhattan Project and the testing of the Trentis site in New Mexico.
On July, on June the 2nd, um, 1947, he was ordered by General McMullen to, uh, take part in a special project which was to film a crash that had occurred in New Mexico and he was to go directly to it.
He flew from Andrews Air Force Base, now Washington, with 16 other officers.
Um, he flew to right field where he picked up more men and more equipment and he then flew on in a C-54 to Roswell, New Mexico.
Immediately they got there, they put all their equipment in trucks and they drove out into the desert and they drove for several hours towards Socorro passing by the Apache Indian Reservation on the way.
They then drove from Socorro towards Magdalena And they turned 10 miles south on a dirt road until they got to a dry lake bed.
This area was completely cordoned off by the military.
And despite a command he'd received from General Tuey in Washington DC, in addition to General McMullen, saying this was the crash of a Soviet spy plane, it was quite obvious this was not a spy plane.
According to his account, there was a large disc on its back, And there was heat still radiating from the ground around it.
There were debris, and some with hieroglyphs on, scattered in the area.
There were strange beings, which he described as freaks, lying beside the craft.
Now this is very similar to the Barney Barnett story, which appears in Stanton Friedman's book.
Barney Barnett came across a disc somewhere on the plains of St.
Augustine, Um, in the Socorro area, and he saw a number of alien creatures lying beside it.
So this is lining up with that particular story.
Um, he says, strange beings obviously from another world.
Uh, large head, dark eyes, no hair, six digits.
This, I'm quitting him now.
This was made all the worse for the screams of the freaks.
That's what he called them.
They were lying by the vehicle.
What in God's name they were, no one could tell.
But one thing was for sure.
They were circus freaks.
Creatures with no business here.
That's his expression.
Each had hold of a box, which they kept hold of with both arms, close to their chest.
And just lay there, crying, holding these boxes.
This is a very shocking account, and it's a brutal account.
Uh, I think we have to really think ourselves back to the 40s where we just come through a world war.
This was the era of Auschwitz, the era of Hiroshima and behavior towards things which are not apparently human was not exactly very sympathetic.
Uh, he says the medical team was reluctant at first to go near the, uh, the freaks because of the freaks.
Uh, but if someone injured, they had no choice.
Uh, he says, once my tent had been set up, I started filming first the vehicle, then the debris.
At about 6 a.m., it was deemed safe to move in.
These creatures, according to his account, have been left lying there for goodness knows how long.
I mean, it might have taken him anything up to 24 hours to get down from Washington.
Uh, this makes it very hard to believe this story.
I mean, when I first read this, I thought this account is totally incredible.
I cannot believe what this man is saying.
But, uh...
Anyway, read it through.
I think, um, the brutality is something which, um, is totally possible in the circumstances.
Um... At about 6 a.m., it was deemed safe to move in.
Again, the freaks were still crying, and when approached, they screamed even louder.
They were protective of their boxes, but we managed to get one loose with a firm strike at the head of a freak with a rifle butt.
These poor creatures, if we believe this account, these poor creatures have traveled halfway across the galaxy.
And they're met with this total lack of hospitality and nothing short of utter brutality.
And I think that in this account, it appears that two of them were actually killed by the military.
The three freaks were dragged away and tied up with a rope and tape.
Obviously, two of them died during this recovery operation.
One of them was dead already from the crash, according to the account, and one of them lived on because the third autopsy was done.
Two autopsies were done in a military hospital in Fort Worth, Dallas, in July, the first
three days of July of 1947.
And a further autopsy was done in May 1949, which seems to indicate that at least one
of these creatures lived on for nearly two years.
He says the craft and the debris were eventually put onto a flatbed truck and moved away and
taken to Wright-Patterson or Wright Field as it was then known.
Alright, listen, I want to stop you both right now and I want to put you on hold for a moment.
This is too important to leave.
I have some things I must get done.
Okay.
So please, everybody, just wait where you are and we'll be back to you.
Great.
Alright, good.
You're listening to Dreamland.
Big news coming from England.
Linda Howe, George Wingfield, Uh, are our present guests, and it's all about the Roswell autopsy, or more accurately, I guess, not the Roswell autopsy, but the New Mexico, I'll call it, autopsy.
And we're getting a lot of new information here, so stay right with us here at the bottom of the hour, and we're going to come back and ask a couple of other very critical questions regarding this breaking news.
This is the film, by the way, that is due to Air worldwide on the 28th of August.
Here in the US, we understand, by the Fox Network.
So, uh, some pretty important information ahead of that broadcast.
You're listening from the high desert to dreamland.
This is the radio network. It is on.
I'm Art Bell.
Good evening.
Back to Linda Howe and George Wingfield in just one moment.
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Linda and George, we don't have a lot of time, but I want to ask a couple of very important questions.
One is with regard to the photographer.
Are there now indications he will come forward and say something?
Well, the photographer has spoken to the Channel 4 TV people who are making this documentary, which is going to be shown on the 28th of August.
And he has spoken to them.
I'm not sure whether it's face-to-face or by telephone, but he will not appear in front of the cameras unless he actually gets a dispensation from the President.
This is what he's demanded, which is not likely to be forthcoming.
However, I can say a few words about the Fox program, which you're likely to see on the 28th.
And before you do, George, I just want to make clear to our Dreamland listeners, Art, that what George was reading from was this cameraman now known as Jack B., period.
The name Barnett apparently was not correct in those first releases.
The cameraman's entire statement was read at the Sheffield Conference, and George Linfield was quoting excerpts from this.
And it's also important now to note that the cameraman himself is placing the location of the crash retrieval that he was involved in filming parts and the autopsies.
George, I'd like you to address that confusion as well.
Ranch in near Roswell which raises the possibility that we're dealing with two
different crashes or more and different bodies and George I'd like you to
address that confusion as well. Well this is very confusing but the the crash the
cameraman refers to occurred on June the 1st 1947 and we believe that whatever
crash the Brasel Ranch crashed a bit later than that possibly mid-june
possibly even July the 3rd which has come to be about the July the 2nd or 3rd
the established date in the literature But these could have been two entirely separate incidents.
That I simply don't know.
All right, I have one more question, then we've got to get out of here.
It is the following.
You have seen the film, the American public has not yet seen the film.
When it is broadcast in America, and Linda, Maybe you'll be qualified to speak on this, or both of you.
How is it going to, in your opinion, affect the American public?
Well, I can tell you what is going to be said in that film.
The researchers, there's a lot of denial and prejudice against the idea that this could possibly have been an alien craft.
and uh... i think an awful lot of research especially people are not into
the field of ufo's will find some alternative solution
and say you're going to be told that these corpses which are seen in the
autopsy are the victims of nuclear testing
the victims of genetic engineering the victims of germ warfare
all sorts of uh... solutions of that kind are going to come up
and i don't buy any of them because frankly i mean
germ warfare nuclear testing Doesn't produce six fingers and six hands.
No way!
No way!
And it doesn't enlarge your head and doesn't make you look like that.
These creatures are creatures, and as far as we know, they are definitely not latex dummies.
There may be other explanations, but I don't buy any of the ones I've just mentioned.
All right, well, we're out of time.
I want to thank you both.
It has been a very meaningful, important report ahead of the broadcast here in America.
So, uh, thank you both.
Yeah, I think, Art, we have to continue to keep an open mind on this.
We may finally be seeing autopsy film from something that is non-human, but the question is now with the cameraman's story, placing it on the plains of St.
Augustine outside of Socorro, we have yet an entirely new story here.
Well, it's a Bonnie Bonnet story.
Right.
Alright, I want to thank you both.
We've got to go.
Thank you.
Right.
And Linda, next week, will you remain there?
I'll be reporting next Sunday, but I don't know from where.
Probably somewhere in England, and I'll call you.
Alright, very good.
Thank you both, and good night from the high desert here in America now.
Ah, this may all work very well together indeed.
Let me give you a quote from Robert Morningsky, who is a Native American of the Hopi Nation.
We are not alone.
The astronomers are wrong.
The scientists are wrong.
They are here.
We cannot see them because they hide.
They hide in plain sight.
We are their servants.
We are their slaves.
We are their property.
We are theirs.
Robert Morning Sky.
Robert Morning Sky is considered to be an elder of the Hopi Indian Nation.
When you hear him, he will sound like he came straight out of Harvard.
For all I know, he did.
I've got a long, very long A bio on him, and I'm not going to go into it, but we'll let him tell us who he is.
I've also got a photograph of him here, and one in full Indian garb, and I'll tell you, it's extremely impressive, and so I'm very proud to introduce to you Robert Morningsky.
Robert, are you there?
Can you hear me?
Yes, sir, I can.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you for the opportunity to talk to you.
Where are you?
I'm in Phoenix, Arizona right now.
I just returned.
I understand you're also a Native American dancer, is that correct?
That's my profession, yes.
I'm actually called a plow bum.
I can quite a few plows, but I am a professional dancer, that's correct.
Before we move on, I take it you are or have become familiar with the I am absolutely fascinated because if you'll allow me a moment to describe where I have just returned from, which I think may surprise you and some of your listeners.
Let me first correct a misinterpretation here.
I am not an elder.
I would not be presumptuous enough to claim that.
I, in fact, have been given honorary status as an elder in Australia from the Aborigines, so I do not want to mislead your listeners nor cause any disrespect to my people in the Hopi Nation.
I have just returned from an area called the Canyonlands in Utah.
Actually, what has happened is that approximately two years ago, while on a vision quest with some individuals, I was instructing them and guiding them through the process, we entered the Canyonlands of Utah.
I don't want to get real specific, but while we were there, we discovered some walls with some ancient glyphs attributed to the Anasazi.
One of the most remarkable walls is one that, in fact, It shows footprints and it tells a story about six-toed ancient ones.
The implication, obviously, if they have six toes is that they have six fingers on their hand.
Yes.
Obviously, this ties in quite well with what is happening with this tape.
These ancient stories told not only in Utah but in Arizona and New Mexico and the glyphs It says that these very ancient ones, the six-toed people,
have been here and have guided man's evolution and his development.
Certainly I think several of your listeners who are familiar with some of the ancient
cultures, the Babylonian, the Mesopotamian, also realize that the numerical system was
a base 12.
And certainly the inference is that if we contemporary human beings use a base 10 based
on 10 digits of our hand, then certainly we can infer that the base 12 may very well have
come from six-toed, six-fingered beings from the past.
So I find this report Absolutely, absolutely confirming some of our research, which actually deals with ancient cultures, but now I'm covering in this film that we have some video evidence of 12-fingered, 12-toed individuals.
I'm fascinated.
I love this.
It is remarkable.
One other area that I know that you've looked into.
is crop circles.
Now, Linda Howe is generally considered to be the world's expert on crop circles.
And crop circles seem to be almost hieroglyphic in nature, or at least as indecipherable in many cases.
And I wonder what you would have to say about crop circles.
What have you discerned from what you have seen?
Most of my information has come, believe it or not, from a gentleman named Colin Andrews, who I met in Australia a few years ago.
I was not familiar with his work.
I didn't know who he was.
He showed me some photographs and we began to go over them.
I was fascinated because many of the symbols are very, very akin to some of the ancient Hopi and the ancient Pueblo Indian glyphs.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and I'm going to suggest that in fact the glyphs that, excuse me, the crop circles that have appeared in the last few years, at least those that I'm familiar with, that these crop circles are intended not so much to define or specifically spell out either a word or a mathematical formula, though certainly I'm convinced that the mathematics is there.
But I believe that virtually everyone who looks at a photograph has some sort of an inner feeling that they recognize that there is something there.
And I believe, I'm going to suggest, that these crop circles are intended to evoke ancient memories.
I believe that we are being sent signals designed to try to wake us up to our distant past.
Certainly some of the crop circles appear to be coming from Mother Earth herself.
And I'm not going to say that this is a written language she's trying to express.
These are outbursts of internal energy, essentially trying to warn we inhabitants that she's in pain, that she's having some difficulty.
But by and large, the very elaborate designs I have seen, I really do believe are intended to evoke memories.
To make us remember, or at least try to get us to remember, that which we have forgotten.
There have been sightings of UFOs or unidentified objects above or near the formation of crop circles.
And what you seem to be suggesting is that it's not an external source like that, but the Earth itself.
Well, actually, they're both.
Actually, some of the simpler ones, the round ones, the simpler shapes do come from Mother
Earth.
However, the more complex ones are being, I believe, manipulated and created by, I'm
not sure I want to go out and say disks, but from a slightly further distance.
I believe that these are beings who were in contact with us thousands and thousands of
years ago and are now trying to reawaken us to what is going on and hopefully ancient
memories.
As a matter of fact, I would suggest that, for example, the face on Mars and some of
the monuments on the Moon, which I don't know if they've been discovered or not, I'm going
to suggest they too are intended much like the monolith.
and the movie 2001 to cause us to recall, I would say across the board that a lot of
the phenomena that occurs now is basically a wake up call, do you remember?
What is it that we are to remember, Robert?
What do they want us to remember?
In the Terra papers that I wrote actually back in college almost 30 years ago, what
I was trying to suggest is that man's evolution, man's development and even his creation have
been manipulated and engineered by beings from the stars.
Native America is replete with stories about star beings.
Virtually every tribe, every nation has some sort of creation story that reveals the origin of man from star beings who descended to this planet.
And that, I guess, is where I should stop and ask you, what was your father's name?
My father's name?
You know, my father died when I was young.
And I did not know him.
I was passed on and essentially adopted by another individual.
That is one of the mysteries of my life.
I did not know his name.
In fact, I can only guess at it.
Then you're adopted father.
I read in the beginning of the Terra Papers that an individual, I guess I'm going to have to resort to that, Had an encounter with what he thought were star people.
That's correct.
And that person is?
My adopted grandfather, we called him Dareny.
D-A-R-E-N-Y, Dareny.
He was relatively fearless, foolish in the eyes of them.
In the sense that he seemed to have no fear.
He would confront situations where perhaps wiser people might walk away from a difficult situation.
He would confront it fully.
He had no fear of death.
A brave person can certainly be called foolish by some and may be admired and respected by others.
He told you stories, didn't he?
He essentially meant he was willing to, not necessarily dare, but to accept virtually
any challenge.
He was not an unwise man.
He always took calculated risks.
I was very proud of him, but a lot of people did consider him a renegade, considered him
a very foolish man at the same time, except I said I'm very proud of him.
He told you stories, didn't he?
Yes, he did.
And curiously enough, I'll let your readers and you and other researchers make a judgment
call, but the story that was passed on to me and that which I'm trying to again relate
is that in August of 1947, less than a month after the famous Roswell crash,
That there was another disk which came down in approximately the Four Corners area of New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, and Colorado.
There were six young men, my grandfather included, who were on a vision quest.
They witnessed the falling of the disk and went to the crash site.
While going through the wreckage, they discovered a live being.
They took him, the bean, with them to their camp and there, over the course of a few months, they were able to nurse him to reasonably good health and then began a communication between the six and this star bean.
Robert, hold it right there.
We'll be right back to you.
My guest is a Native American of the Hopi Nation.
His name is Robert Morning Sky.
More in a moment.
Just about anybody who's anybody knows the way to make money is to have it.
Yeah, but there's more.
You've got to know how to invest it, when to invest it, timing it.
It is your belief, and the belief of the Hopi Nation, is it not, that our Earth, that which we walk on, is a living entity.
Is that correct?
That's correct.
Yes, sir.
Living in the sense... Living in the... In what sense?
Living in the very same sense as mankind.
The arrogance, I believe, and I speak only for myself, but the arrogance of the civilized world and the civilized man suggests that life only is to be respected if it is similar to our own.
Planet Earth, Mother Earth, is no different in its makeup than mankind.
I mean, Mother Earth is neutrons, electrons, protons.
I'm trying to give a scientific description here, and so is man.
The difference is the way in which these minute particles are put together.
Mother Earth simply has the particles constructed in a fashion that mankind simply refuses to acknowledge as life.
I find man arrogant, even in the description a moment ago of the centilitapes and what happened to those extraterrestrials.
I mean, if we are going to treat beings from another place in that fashion, and then we treat Mother Earth in the fashion that we do, I find man highly arrogant in believing that he is the supreme being and refuses to acknowledge rocks, trees, plants and animals as living entities.
If I can explain, in the Hopi world there are figures that are called Kachinas.
We believe that they represent the essence, the soul, the spirit of everything which is around us.
When they appear for example in the mazes or in the villages, They appear just as you and I do as human beings, with a slightly different face, a slightly different head.
All right, Robert.
I am... Robert, I've got to interrupt.
When we come back, I'm going to read you what you are going to consider to be an extremely egotistical fax.
And I want you to respond to it.
So relax a few moments.
We'll be right back to you.
My guest is Robert Morning Sky, a Native American of the Hopi Nation.
And this, from the high desert, is Greenland.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air now with Robert Morning Sky.
Hello.
Hi, how are you doing, Art?
Where are you, sir?
St.
Louis, Missouri.
Yes, sir.
Yeah, I want to concur with Robert in terms of your being alive, and it is talked about in Chris Candy and Daoism, and if you're aware of Don Juan, he talks about exactly the same thing, and the main thing they concur on is that man gets his feet connected on the ground, and is able to pull up energy through the ground, and consequently this leads, as they say, from the mother to the father.
And if you look to read, if you've ever heard of Edmund Bordeaux, he interpreted a number of Athene Gospels, and the main thing that Christ talks about is through the mother you reach the father.
And he'd go up and tell people to grab a tree, And consequently, energy would be coming up through the body.
In Taoism, it goes into very great detail as to how to get your feet on the ground to get connected to the earth.
And in Carlos Castaneda talking about Don Juan, he said that the earth getting connected to it soothes his whole being and taught him freedom.
And when you talk about the earthly mother being the mother of the universe, that's not true.
If you look at Taoism, they say it's yin and yang.
Uh, even in all religions, to talk about God is the unspeakable.
The energy that comes forth from that is, if you look at Indian religion, it's Siva and Shakti, and it's an interplay between male and female, or just opposite the creation.
That is not the creator itself, that comes from the creator.
And you can look at it, whether it's Hinduism, or Vedanta, or Christianity, it's all true.
Believe me, if you just look at these things, if you talk about appreciation of the Mother Earth, it's a matter in terms of all these religions.
I can give you the name of the books and wherever you want to look.
Well, that's all right, we're going to have to... It's getting connected to the ground.
All right, we're going to have to hold it there.
I take it, Robert, you concur generally with that.
Yes, and again, I do want to clarify that I do not in any way wish to portray that the creator of the universe is a female.
Again, let me clarify, it is the creator of earth and man that the Hopi say is a creator.
The creator essence is given generally a masculine role, but in fact does have a female counterpart.
There's a fine distinction in what I did say.
But I do generally concur with what you have said, absolutely.
Yes, sir?
All right.
Maybe we can squeeze one quick one in.
You're on the air with Robert Morning Sky.
Where are you calling from, please?
California, Art.
All right.
Real quick.
Mr. Morning Sky, from what I understand, you're saying with the cycle that's about ready to happen, is that because of some malevolence on the part of mankind, or is it just a normal cycle of nature?
I hate to attribute it to nature.
I would simply say that it is a natural part of the rhythm of the existence in our universe, and that's very simplistic.
I can't hesitate, but man is not causing it.
Man just happens to be at that cusp where the changes can occur.
It is part of the natural rhythm of the universe.
That's something.
All right.
Robert Mornings, guys, stay right there.
He's our guest.
And what a program it is.
Dreamland.
If you want to order our newsletter, get through 1-800... This Hour of Artville was recorded for rebroadcast at this time.
Please do not call.
From the Kingdom of Nine, you're hearing Greenland with Art Bell.
To participate in the program, call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
1-800-618-8255.
First-time callers, area code 702-727-1222, or the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
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This is the CBC Radio Network.
One more time, please, with emphasis.
Our newsletter that is going to have a remarkable photograph of a comet called Hale-Bopp out beyond the orbit of Jupiter, taken with a 90-inch telescope, in the next newsletter.
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At this moment, you may subscribe at the present price of $29.95.
of $29.95. It's going to be going to $39.95. That is a one-year subscription.
Don't let it go.
Get on the phone now and keep at it until you get through.
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1-800-917-4278.
Still time to get the edition with the photograph of the comet.
And in a moment, what I promise you is going to be a remarkable segment
with our guest Robert Morning Sky, the Native American of the Hopi Nation,
because I have the person who sent the facts, Steve, from Santa Barbara on the line.
He sent another one.
This time he sent a phone number, so I called it.
Steve is here.
One of the more remarkable... Now back to Robert.
Robert, are you there?
Yes, sir.
Alright, this fact's very interesting.
Dear Art, Gordon Michael Scallion has stated in one of his newsletters, quote, Shortly, in 1996 or 7, a great gathering of elder and young heart-centered warriors shall convene in the Southwest.
Here, prophecies of old and new shall be revealed, brought forth by both women Again, hesitantly, yes, I am aware.
It is not appropriate for me to, and I believe most of your listeners will understand, this is their place, this is their circle, and it would certainly not be my place to announce or All right.
The man who wrote the early facts, who you've mentioned now several times, Steve, in Santa Barbara.
So I can only say, yes I do, I am aware, but it is not my place to speak of those things.
Alright, the man who wrote the early facts, who you've mentioned now several times, Steve, in Santa Barbara,
the man who believes the Earth is but an inert rock, I just happened to be able to get him on the line.
Steve, you're on the air with Robert Morning Sky.
Good evening, gentlemen.
Hi.
Speak up good and loud for us.
Get close to the phone and go ahead.
How's it?
Fine.
Okay.
Well, I took the facts.
I think the facts pretty much contained a good sampling of what I had to rebut to what Mr. Morning Sky had said.
Well, why don't you do it yourself?
Well, I will condense it real simply.
Mr. Morningstar, I still say that you presented no cogent argument to me in any form whatsoever that the Earth is alive.
If you want to maintain that the Earth and the Universe and atoms are somehow powered by mysterious forces that we do not yet understand and that life as we know it, organisms, fit within that, I'll accept that argument.
But you still presented nothing to me to say that the Earth is relative to a living organism I can only respond with two very brief comments.
One, I suppose what is at issue is the definition of what is living and alive.
based on active activity?
I can only respond with two very brief comments.
One, I suppose what is at issue is the definition of what is living and alive.
I do not believe that what we human beings have either put in encyclopedias or in dictionaries
has a definition. I do not believe that that is appropriate.
Secondly, I absolutely agree.
I don't believe that there is anything I can ever say or do.
I don't believe there is anything that you will ever see that will persuade you.
I respect that.
I am not here to convert.
I believe that you have presented your position quite well.
Hopefully, I have done the same, and the best that either one of us can do is to hope that our listeners and whoever we speak to simply hear our story, and then they can make a choice.
Mr. Morris, I find it a little arrogant of you to assume that I have a very limited perception, that I couldn't possibly feel what you feel, the great mysterious power within this universe.
I will vision quest with you anytime, anywhere in the world.
You name the date and the place, and I'll fly there.
I'm open to amazing possibilities.
You don't know what's happened to me in my lifetime, so you certainly can't make conclusions about my perceptions.
If you want to say that all you've done, I feel, is present a suggestion that what we think of as life is not quite what it could or should be, that life contains more than what we think it is.
Again, if that's what you think, say so, but don't say it's the same thing that makes me
greater than a bowling ball.
Because we're both a compilation of earthly materials, silicone, water, whatever matter
you want to put into it.
We're all atoms and molecules in the end run.
But what is it that makes me greater than my bowling ball?
What is it that gives me intelligence?
What is it that gives me the ability to perceive my universe, register it and communicate it
with others of my kind?
And still you presented nothing to say that the earth is alive, merely that what we consider
alive is much greater, that all the wonders of the universe are actually contained within
living.
And I still assert that you really are claiming that the earth is speaking.
You even said earlier that the earth is hurting.
Those were your words.
And that probably the answer to why it's hurting is contained within your book that you're trying to sell tonight.
Well, as a matter of fact, Steve, that's a little unfair.
I'm going to get him to promote his book because he hasn't even said a word about it.
So I'm going to make him say a word about it in a moment, Steve.
That comment was a little rough, I thought.
Oh, it's accurate.
Well, it's not accurate because he's not been peddling his book.
I'm going to make him peddle it here in a little while.
As a matter of fact, while we're on the subject, we'll get to that, but would you like to respond one more time to Steve?
If I were to respond to Steve, I would say it sounds to me like he is searching, like he is hurting.
And I think that I share your view, Robert, and it's something that you feel at a very deep level, or you don't, I guess.
I want to thank Steve for presenting his thoughts and his perceptions and his reality.
I will simply allow his statements to stand on their own and what I have said to stand on its own.
I again do not believe that I will ever be able to show Steve what I would consider to be a truth and I recognize that, I
understand that, I choose not to participate in either a name calling or a put down
of philosophies.
I'm a storyteller, I'm simply presenting a story.
If he chooses to reject it, that's quite alright.
I'm not going to try and persuade him.
If others can look around them and see what I see, that's quite alright too.
I would say I would allow Steve's words to stand on their own and I would allow my own
words to stand on my own and allow the rest of the world to make their own decision.
His were presented with kind of a tinge of anger, perhaps in reaction to what he senses
Maybe true, but it just does not want to accept.
People frequently react, I notice, in these arenas with anger.
Now, I'm going to do exactly what I just said I was going to do.
And anyway, here's a fact, Art.
Be sure and get the information about his workshop lecture in the Seattle area that he's holding within a few weeks.
He mentioned this, but I've not gotten any information, phone numbers or addresses or anything.
Be sure you get it.
So, let's get it.
Where are you going to be in Seattle and so forth?
I have been very fortunate that I have been invited up to Seattle and Yelm and I'll be in Mount Shasta all within the next couple of weeks.
My appearance schedule, again I've been very fortunate.
I can only at this point since the list is quite lengthy, I do have a contact number that individuals can call either for existing lectures and workshops or if They would care to invite or ask for us to participate later on in the program or whenever.
I can certainly give you the contact number.
Go ahead.
Give it on the air.
The contact number is in care of the Terra Project.
It's area code 602-996-6324.
Um, they can call that number.
We can mail out the schedule.
We are booked between here and the early part of next year.
They can also get information on a book and some other information that we are publishing.
Again, we're simply trying to present a story that is most certainly based in Native America But I believe it applies to the contemporary.
I do not choose to try to persuade anyone, but simply tell a story, and hopefully it fits in with what they see is going on around them.
All right.
You've written, I guess I'd call it a white paper.
I don't know what you'd call it.
It's called the Chair of Papers.
That's what you talk about.
And how could a person get hold of that?
They can contact us through that number.
And we would be happy to send them information on the Terra papers, and we actually have some subsequent papers and data that we make available.
Is there a cost associated with it?
We're asking, essentially, our cost to get this out.
It's $10 for the Terra papers, and that's put into Let's put into additional research and we actually take people out into the field for them to see the glyph, for them to see the circles, and we ask them simply to witness and then allow them to make a judgment call.
Alright, that number is area code 602-996-6324.
Now, should they call during the day, business hours, or 24 hours?
The phone does function during normal business hours.
Should they call after hours, and if there's one of the researchers in the office, they will answer.
If not, there is a message machine.
They can leave their name and number.
We will get in touch with them, or if they leave their address, we will send them the information.
All right, good.
Robert, hold on.
We'll be right back.
You're right in the middle of Dreamland.
On the air, huh?
Yeah, I was talking with a telescope distributing place today.
Yes.
And asked them about the comet too, and they got information on it, and they said it was first detected in 93.
Well, I don't know.
I'm hearing... I'm hearing so many stories right now.
I mean, it's called Hale-Bopp because it was just discovered by Hale and Bopp.
They said on the 23rd of July.
Yeah, well... Yeah, so, um...
So what now?
This telescope distributor is making claims that Hale and Bach were not the first.
Something to that effect.
Let's see, the Daily Telegraph, I reported it?
Yes.
And Sky & Telescope is also supposed to report it?
Oh, look, everybody's almost on it now.
Okay, I was looking at Sky & Telescope and a copy of the most recent Daily Telegraph and I didn't see anything.
Which issues were they in?
Oh, I don't know.
I don't have it.
It was just, you know, this was on the wire services, so I would imagine it'll probably be whatever the next issue is.
And they're saying it's just bigger than something that hasn't been detected that far away before.
Well, let's say it's only a tenth the size that they're worried it might be.
It would still be gigantic!
And let's say that it misses the Earth, but heads toward the Earth's path.
It may come close enough to the Sun so that it will be the astronomical event of, you know, all time.
Yeah, we'll do it.
Maybe it's Gordon Michael's second son.
Time to sell our Comet bills.
Oh, look, there'll be Comet hats, Comet t-shirts, Endo the World t-shirts, you name it.
Everybody will get going on this one soon.
We just happen to be on it a little bit earlier than most.
Okay.
Okay.
Thank you very much for the call.
Maybe we should be in Comet t-shirts now.
What would be a good slogan to put on a comet t-shirt?
A story that you had at the top of the hour.
Unbelievable, huh?
Well, actually it is.
I heard the same story on Rush Limbaugh late in the week last week.
And he checked it out and it was written as a satire in a magazine.
Brinkley reported it on Sunday as fact.
Well, I, like I said, Well, you know, if that's true, then thank goodness.
Because can our society have degenerated to that point?
of course or what the report that it was written
it was not true that actually happen you know if that's true then thank goodness
because it can our society have degenerated to that point uh... thankfully and hopefully you're right
And it is not.
But I can't say that I'm convinced by your call only because ABC and Brinkley reported it on Sunday.
Had it been exposed as some sort of untrue story, you would think certainly by Sunday, ABC would have had that word.
True.
It makes you wonder about ABC.
Or makes me wonder about ABC.
Okay, really, that's all I had.
Thank you.
Alright, thank you very much.
I don't know.
I still kind of lean toward it being true.
And you just can't imagine Brinkley would have reported that.
Robert, here comes yet another caller.
You're on the air east of the Rockies.
Who are you calling from, please?
Yes, this is Mike from Lakeland Connecticut.
Hi, Mike.
Yes, you were speaking earlier about your step-grandfather, I believe, that had come across a crash site.
The purpose of my spending this year in going to the public and telling this story is that I think the timing is crucial.
relationship and how did it end up?
The rest of the story.
Good question.
Thank you.
Yes, I mean the purpose of my spending this year in going to the public and telling the
story is that I think the timing is crucial.
It is part of the ending of the cycle.
The relationship was rather odd in that the star being in communicating with my grandfather
and the other five essentially began to describe what I would call the warrior discipline,
the warrior ways of beings and the stars.
And what my grandfather and his friends discovered was that many of the Native American warrior ways, for example, the use of a vision quest, the use of something as simple as a feather, some of the techniques that were used in war, were in fact born in the stars.
And for my grandfather and the others, this was confirmation that all of the ancient legends that we were born in the stars and that our ways came down to us from the stars, with confirmation to them. Now if you then turn around and
look at this being who my grandfather and the others called the star elder out of
respect for his wisdom and certainly that he came from the stars. The star elder, the being
found himself in a primitive society.
He found himself in a savage world.
Now, if you were to land in the center of the deepest, darkest jungle, and suddenly these primitives walk up to you, and using stones, they begin to play this little game called Nintendo, certainly you're going to be astonished at where did you get this, and how did you know?
So there was surprise on both ends because a star being sees primitives practicing star
ways and primitives see a star being confirming that their ways in fact are born in the stars.
Alright, well we don't have a lot of time so what became of the creature?
The star elder remained for a short period of time.
He returned.
I will say that he has returned at least twice since 1947.
There is an ongoing relationship with a handful of Native Americans and again not wanting
to get into depth but he is alive, he is well and continues to make contact when necessary
because of the situation that occurs here on planet earth and the ending of the cycle.
The ending of the cycle.
You know, I wish I didn't believe that somehow.
I worry about the ending of the cycle.
Robert, you seem to be Prepared for it, rejoicing in it, and I wish I could adopt that same attitude, and maybe I need to study more.
Robert, stand by.
We're breaking here at the top of the hour.
Robert Morning Sky, a Native American of the Hopi Nation, is our guest, and we are honored to have him, as we are you.
This, from the high desert, is dreamland.
It's a dreamland.
It's a dreamland.
.
you From the Kingdom of Nine, you're hearing Greenland with Art Bell.
To participate in the program, call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
1-800-618-8255.
First-time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
Or the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
This is the CBC Radio Network.
It absolutely is, and I want to repeat this announcement.
8255 1-800-618-8255. First time callers, area code 702-727-1222 or the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
This is the CBC Radio Network. It absolutely is and I want to repeat this announcement. It's a
really a big one. We have a new image of the Hale-Bopp comet.
And I want to thank Paul again in Houston for getting it to me.
Thank you, Paul.
The image was obtained, so that you know, from Kitt Peak using a Stewart Observatory 90-inch telescope.
A LaRal 2K x 2K CCD was exposed for 30 seconds while the telescope tracked LBOP.
It is a very serious image and we want to give credit properly to Dave Harvey and Steward Observatory.
This image is now on our bulletin board.
Uh, and you can get to it by calling Area Code 702.
If you have a computer now, 702-727-1709.
702-727-1709.
Uh, if you have a computer, it's called, uh, comet1.gif.
702-727-1709.
702-727-1709.
If you have a computer, it's called comet1.gif.
Now, if you don't have a computer, it is, I can tell you, because I sent it personally by computer to the publisher
who will have it in the next newsletter.
Along, I might add, with the image of the crystal skull, Max, and a photograph of my studio, the one from which I'm transmitting at this very moment.
You can get the newsletter.
It's $29.95 a year.
How you could possibly wait any longer, I don't know.
Every month it gets bigger and better.
And we're going to keep putting this kind of information into it.
The number to order the newsletter right now, and you just please keep trying, 1-800-917-4278.
1-800-917-4278.
It's called the Art Bell.
1-800-917-4278.
It's called the Art Bell.
After Dark Newsletter.
He's a very nice man.
an appropriate title for it.
It's got 300 photos in it.
And it took us forever to put this thing together.
12 countries and a lot of film.
And I think that people might enjoy looking at it.
And if anybody has some strange ritual facts or ideas or anything that could help me in my quest for sort of a universal field theory of ritualism and mythology, they can send it to Carol Llewellyn.
I answer all my letters and I'd love to hear from people who are also involved in these kinds of things.
All right.
And so they would send it and care of the publisher?
Correct.
All right.
Off we go to a land you mentioned someplace in Louisiana.
Hello there.
You're on the air.
Where are you calling from, actually?
I'm calling from Chalmette, Louisiana.
All right.
It's about two or three miles outside of New Orleans.
Yes, sir.
Okay.
All right.
First of all, let me say I really enjoy your program.
Thank you.
And I listen to you every Sunday night.
What station would pick you up in Laurel, Mississippi?
Do you know of any?
I don't even know where that is in Mississippi.
Oh, okay.
I have stations there, but I, you know... You do?
Yeah, I sure do, but I'm not familiar with exactly where that is.
Is it anywhere near... Well, I can't go through the... Okay, that's okay.
You'll hear us.
That's okay, because I just wanted to let my son know because he wanted to tune in.
I see.
Okay, thank you very much.
All right, sir.
Thank you.
I guess no specific question.
Your voice is heard everywhere.
That's not magic.
I don't know what it is.
It is kind of magic, actually.
It is.
It's magic.
A hundred years ago, they would have said it was unbelievable magic.
They'd have burned me with you.
Probably.
I suspect we're kindred souls.
Probably.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Denny Sargent.
Hi.
Absolutely.
I am by no means the greatest author in the world.
As I said in the beginning of my book, I stand on the shoulders of giants.
I would recommend Iliad, who has written numerous books on mythology.
I'm going to give you some authors.
Absolutely. I am by no means the greatest author in the world. As I said in the beginning
of my book, I stand on the shoulders of giants. I would recommend Eliade, who has written
numerous books on mythology. I'm going to give you some authors. I would recommend Carl
Jung, especially his real basic book that is for everybody called Men and His Symbols.
Oh yeah, that works wonderful.
Exactly.
And I recommend, of course, Joseph Campbell and his video series is fabulous.
And any of his works are fantastic.
Okay.
There are some other people like Eric Newman, who people are not too familiar with.
He wrote a book called The Great Mother, which is a survey of goddesses throughout history, which is fantastic.
And this is a relatively new field.
It's kind of a mixing of psychology and anthropology and history.
And I'm trying to take it a step further into the field of ritual.
It's relatively hard.
I mean, global ritualism is my attempt, but it's not a particularly scholarly work.
It's really for just average people.
Most of it was off the top of my head just from years and years of reading and research and traveling.
There's not a lot of, for example, there's not a lot of footnotes, historical footnotes in my book.
All right, ma'am.
There you go.
All right.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Oh, good luck.
Now, let's talk for a second.
Do you know, for some reason, Denny, I have a lot of witches that listen to me, and I don't mean just on this program, you would imagine that, but on my other as well, and I'm constantly getting faxes from them now.
Is not witchcraft full of every sort of ritualism?
It's rich in ritualism, is it not?
I've met a number of I've been to a number of pagan and witchcraft circles in America and pagan circles in all different countries around the world.
Witchcraft is, in spirit, a continuation of pre-Christian European paganism.
Historically, there's not a lot of actual stuff that has been continually practiced.
Most of it, what it is now, is a kind of revival of the faith, of European paganism.
What you're finding is that a lot of witches and quote unquote new age people and a lot of people who are listening to your show, what they're doing is what I call eclectic ritualism.
The whole second part of my book is called eclecticizing or eclectic ritual.
This is a movement that I'm seeing.
And I think witches personify that, Wicca or witchcraft personifies that really well.
But I'm seeing it all through the spectrums of New Age, of Jungianism, of every kind of group that is looking for a kind of global vision of what is going on out there.
I kind of coined the term Eclectic Ritualism, which is people sampling Tibetan Buddhism, people going like yourself to Thai temples and getting some kind of feeling or experience, people going to Hopi ceremonies, people having some Hopi sage in their house and using that ritual, maybe having Tibetan prayer flags, maybe carrying a cross that their mother gave them.
This is Eclectic Ritualism.
To be honest with you, it's the great unspoken movement that's sweeping through America right now.
I kind of put a label on it.
In global ritualism, I kind of addressed it.
I don't really claim to be unique, but I guess I have a lot of friends and a lot of contacts on many different levels.
I know witches.
I know many different kinds of Christians.
I know a lot of new age people.
I know a lot of psychics.
I know a lot of academics.
I know a lot of psychologists.
They're all really doing the same kinds of things.
I know.
And the yoga classes are being held at the My Lutheran Church.
As I said, that's what's bothering me more than anything else, Denny, is that so many of these people are seeing and saying so many similar things that individually you can dismiss them.
Collectively, you can go at your own peril.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Denny Sargent.
Hi.
Hi.
Turn your radio off.
That's number one.
Always turn your radio off.
Tell us where you're calling from.
Well, now he must have gone to turn his radio off.
Well, just as a quick note, do you know what I think the greatest religious movement is right now?
What?
The World Wide Web.
I do.
Because religion means, the root of religion is the Greek word for religios, which means to re-link.
Alright, having said that, and not wanting to expand on it, Collar, are you there?
Hello, Collar?
Hello?
Yes.
Yes, you're on the air, sir.
Okay, hi, this is Mike, Detroit Lake, Minnesota.
In fact, the madness that you mentioned earlier will come to an end.
But I also have to say that my heart, it hurts, it pains to think that there will be those, because they refuse to look around them, they cover their eyes with blinders, are not going to be able to see what is going on.
And I can only suggest that the comet, the eclipse, and what is going to occur between now and its appearance I would suggest that we just let it speak for itself, and if it doesn't seem to speak with a thunder, I would be surprised.
Here's one other fact that seems relevant.
Art, would you please ask To your guest, if he is aware of Terence McKenna's time wave, it is a map of time derived from the Chinese I Ching, or Book of Changes, and claims the end of time to be December 21st, 2012, from Pam and Jeff in Eugene, Oregon.
Thank you.
No, I am completely ignorant of that, and again, can only suggest that it is a major coincidence Or, again, we just simply allow it to speak with it.
Hello.
Good evening, Mr. Fox.
Good evening, sir.
Where are you?
Excuse me?
Where are you?
I'd like to ask your guest if he made the comment that the creator of the universe is female because of the white buffalo that was born, and it's born female.
Correct?
No, not exactly.
What I said was that in the Hopi way, the creator of earth and man is a female.
In fact, the creator of the universe is Ta'iowa.
It has several different names, but it's in fact a male essence.
And so, just a slight distinguishing of what I said earlier.
Does that help you, Colin?
No.
Well, my point was going to be made there.
If you're again familiar with Jeremiah chapter 44 verse 15 to 27?
No.
No.
And I'm afraid I can't give you an opportunity for him to become familiar at this moment.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert Morning Sky.
Hello.
Hi.
Where are you, sir?
East of the Rockies.
Where?
Austin.
You're Boston.
Well, you're on our West of the Rockies line, so thanks for the shot.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Robert Morning Sky.
Hello, how are you?
Fine.
Eric, turn your radio off, sir.
Okay.
And please, also... Yes, I'm calling from Memphis, Tennessee.
All right.
First time caller.
Yes, sir.
Yes, first of all, I think Robert and his grandfather both are right on the money.
Thank you.
And I have to ask you, though, Um, have there been any, uh, let's say a meeting of the minds, so to speak, between the, uh, Medicine Man and that being?
I'm not sure what you mean by meeting of the minds.
Uh, that being that was on the, uh, in the Hope Eye Nation.
Did he talk or communicate with the Medicine Man?
Yeah.
I don't want to imply that all medicine men, but a handful and literally less than a dozen.
Wow, that is indeed remarkable.
All right.
A lot of people trying to get hold of you, so we'll just keep moving.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert Morning Sky.
Where are you, please?
Madison, Wisconsin.
Yes, sir.
Thank you very much for having him on, Art.
Sure.
Robert, you know, we in the Western tradition have been raised with pretty much pitiful preparedness for
the upcoming events.
I mean the meek shall inherit the earth.
It's about all we've got to rest on.
I'm wondering, number one, do Hopis believe in reincarnation and if so what do Hopis believe
they should be doing to prepare for this versus what can the rest of us do to get ready for
this besides maybe go on live in the woods and try to be self-sufficient?
Again, I do not want to speak for the Hopi nation.
That is not appropriate.
But again, in drawing from Hopi tradition, reincarnation as I believe most people speak of it, says that in essence what you do in this life dictates what will occur or what your life will be like when you return to this planet in the future.
The difficulty with that concept is that the Hopi do not generally I believe that reincarnation demands a return to this planet.
In fact, you could end up on a far distant star, you could end up on a planet in another galaxy, perhaps in another universe.
The simplest explanation of Hopi transmigration, the changing of planes of existence, simply says that if you are a chief on this Earthly plane that in going through the door to the next existence that you will be achieved in that plane.
So in that regard, yes, what you do here does dictate what you will do there.
Whether you will be punished or elevated in essence depends on your wisdom as opposed to an outside agency judging.
I'm sorry, and the second part of the question was, what does... I'm sorry, what was it?
It has to do with what we can do to prepare.
For example, I wonder whether all the Hopi will be gathering at the Third Mesa, and where are all of us lousy white folks supposed to go?
Oh, no, no, I would never use the terminology lousy white folk, but curiously, there is a story that in this end cycle, That there will be a messenger who returns from the heavens.
He is known as Bahanna, and in fact is known as the White Brother.
Some literally interpret this as a white-skinned brother.
But again, in referring back to the White Buffalo, I would say that this is the pure essence of a brother, and can only speak for myself and say this is the presence of a star being.
I'm not sure I can attribute this to the star elder that my grandfather is familiar with.
But certainly it could be the precursor to the visit of another star being.
I would only suggest that in order to expand one's awareness, one has to toss away the blinders.
If I can take a moment and hopefully in this analogy explain it better, if you see a bear You may ask one individual, what do you see?
And this individual will say that this is a gentle, compassionate beast of nature.
And if you were to ask another being, another person, they would say, well, this is a nasty, rotten, evil carnivore.
Now, the question that I would suggest is, which is the truth?
Capital T-H-E.
Is it the gentle beast?
Is it the carnivore?
I can only and very briefly suggest one individual's truth is that it is a gentle beast of nature.
The other individual's truth is that it is a carnivore.
What I am going to suggest is the truth is the bear, which does not care what others choose to label it or see it as.
It simply is.
And in the workshops we conduct and when we take people out on the quest, what we are trying to say is, you need to set aside all your experiences, all your judgments, all your learning and simply open your eyes to the bear.
And you will see that at times it is gentle and at times it is not.
We need to, in the workshops I've been approached and say, we need to learn, we need to gain greater wisdom.
I'm going to suggest that, in fact, we do not need to learn, but to unlearn that which we have been saddled with.
We need to open our eyes instead of to blindly accept what is described as in front of us.
All right.
Robert, I want to ask you a question myself.
It's about the nature of our soul.
Obviously, the Hobie believe, as we believe, there is a soul, something that lives beyond the physical body.
From your description, it sounded like reincarnation, but not quite.
You seem to believe there's a big cosmic bowl of soup, sort of containing not just multi-cultures, but multi-species, and that one might come back, as you said, on a very distant, very distant star.
Is that right?
That's correct, sir.
I can only suggest And it's probably dangerous in a very brief period of time to say that there is out there an essence of which we have been born, whether one chooses to call it God or some other title, I'd leave that to the individual.
But I can only suggest that we choose, and in our workshops we talk about Earth 101, we have chosen to experience Life on this plane, some of us choose to be male, some choose to be female, some choose to be doctors, lawyers, attorneys.
There are numerous things, but it is much like a university.
We have chosen to be in this place to learn what we feel we need.
Having completed that course, It may be necessary to repeat the course.
It may be necessary, having been a male doctor, to return and now become a female doctor.
I don't believe punishment has anything to do with it, karma that has turned against us.
I think it is a learning process that we do have a connection far out there, and this is our learning process.
This is our Earth 101, and perhaps at some point the only way that we can understand peace Well, the taste is certainly strong in my mouth.
Hold on just one moment.
We live and taste a life where there is madness, where there is chaos, where we are in fact
murderers and rapists and cruel, vicious beings.
Perhaps some of us actually need to experience that in order to learn.
The taste is certainly strong in my mouth.
Hold on just one moment.
Robert Morning Sky, we are honored to have him as a guest, a Native American of the Hopi
Nation.
We'll take more calls in a moment.
Or Central, Illinois. Partly.
Thank you.
I wish I didn't have to hear all this baloney.
But I hope you get something out of this program and I'm glad you called.
Can I ask you one more thing?
Yeah, sure.
This idea of what is time, couldn't it simply be described as a form of knowing?
Yes, or perhaps consciousness.
Uh, is the perception of time, doctor?
Yes, definitely.
I think that time is a layer of consciousness.
It's a degree of consciousness.
And since we're, I feel, here all about learning in some way or another, uh, we are here, in fact, to learn about time as well.
Oh, good, good answer.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Snow.
Hi.
Hi, this is Terri from Monterey, California.
Monterey, beautiful place, yes.
Very much so.
Doctor, when one has what one would call deja vu, those moments where you think I have seen
this before or even moments where you can consciously remember seeing something that
you know is going to happen and then it does shortly in your life, is that a part of future
progression?
Yes it is.
Deja vu often is, in a sense, a past experience, coming back, an echo of somewhere you may have been already and you recognize it again.
The kind of precognition, which is the second form, frequently comes when your mind, which at different levels of consciousness can go outside of linear time, shoots forward to present to you an event or a feeling, an emotion, or sometimes even a face of an individual that will be an important player in your learning process in your life.
Okay, so then we generally should look upon that as something that we should think about.
I think it's something that you ought to take into consideration.
I wouldn't change everything because you had such an experience, because sometimes the mind plays tricks on us.
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