Art Bell’s Dreamland explores Bigfoot screams in Utah and a 1992 encounter with an 8-10-foot, hairy creature near a mutilated deer, echoing 1976 Montana cases tied to UFOs. JoAnn Parks’ 18-pound crystal skull, Max, defies skeptics with flawless machining and visions of "mansion worlds" or higher dimensions, healing osteogenic sarcoma tumors spiritually. Star Johnson links its energy to ascension, while callers describe unexplained physical sensations—water turning blood-like, cancer remission—though documented proof remains elusive. Max’s imagery, from pyramids to extraterrestrials, suggests stored historical vibrations, reinforcing its role as a metaphysical tool over predictive prophecy. [Automatically generated summary]
Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not met, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
This is Dreamland, Sunday night in the high desert, Dreamland, on the air again.
Hi, everybody.
I'm Art Bell.
This is an intelligent program.
Linda Howe, as usual, something about Bigfoot, I think.
Remember that horrendous scream?
Maybe she's got it one more time.
We'll find out.
After airing that scream, we've been getting a lot of response, shall we say.
People who have heard similar horrendous things.
So that'll be Linda Howe coming up in a moment.
And then Joanne Harks, the owner of the ancient Texas Crystal Skull.
Max, the Crystal Skull, along with Star Johnson Moser, who is going to, in some way, back her up.
We're going to find out.
Lady Starr has done a lot of work with the skull.
Now, Joanne is in Texas, and Star is in Missouri.
So all of that is just ahead on Dreamland.
And as I listened to the open, I thought I was hearing phrases of my own like the air we breathe and things that can be put in a box and things that can't.
I thought, hmm.
Alpine, that's the air we breathe.
And it comes in, of course, we will find the world's expert on crop circles and animal mutilations and has branched out really into other areas of UFO-related phenomenon.
Linda Moulton-Howe.
Linda, welcome to the program.
unidentified
Hi, Art.
Hi.
Well, you know, those recordings of that alleged Bigfoot screen near Snowhomish, Washington, that I played again last weekend, were heard by another Dreamland listener who lives in central Utah.
She said that she could not believe that in the week after hearing the alleged Bigfoot screams on Dreamland, she heard the same kind of sound near her Utah mountain home.
She has asked to remain anonymous, but allowed me to record an interview with her about the sounds in an area of central Utah where friends of hers also encountered a Bigfoot-like creature in 1992.
I will call her Mrs. Smith, and here now are excerpt from this week's interview.
All right.
Mrs. Smith.
I listened to your recording, and I just thought, well, that's interesting.
I've heard that before on the tape, okay, that I had a friend given to me years ago.
And I thought no more of it.
But then we went to our property, and we were just working around there.
And that evening, we went to bed.
It was about 11 o'clock, and we heard this bomb.
Family Encounter Stood Out00:03:36
unidentified
And I thought I recognized it, but then I paid no attention to it, and we just went about our business.
And I went to bed, and this creature, whatever he is, whatever it is, squealed all night long into the morning.
And so then morning came, and I called my husband, asked him if he had heard the sound, and he said yes, and it went all night.
And I said, well, that was Bigfoot.
In that same central Utah area three years ago, a family of five that she knows had a face-to-face encounter with a Bigfoot-looking creature while deer hunting.
The family doesn't want to be interviewed either for radio, but Mrs. Smith remembers what happened.
They saw this big buck that was just frozen, like it was suspended.
And I told them that I have just understood that when Bigfoot comes around, that it the animals just freeze.
And she said, that's how they perceived everything around there, like everything was in a frozen state.
And so she shot the buck, and she and her husband and her children got out, and they proceeded to get the buck, and then they felt like something was staring at them.
And so they turned and looked, and here they thought this great huge bear was hunched over.
And see that it stood out with the big boy.
It was about 100 to 200 feet from them.
And he was staring right at them.
And he says the arms dangled way down past the knees.
And when he turned to look at each of the family members, he turned from his waist, his upper torso turned.
And they described how it looked, how it had the hair on the face, how the eyes had hair except for, you know, where the pupils and things are.
And then that was it.
But they just said it was about eight feet tall or taller.
And that was about it.
And they said it had the twined dog and the brown hair.
And then he went up the mountainside.
And they just stood there for them.
And they just couldn't believe what they had seen.
And then finally they collected their faculties together.
And the girl went over and looked at the footprints because it had just snowed.
And she just said they were enormous.
And I said, oh, my guys, why didn't you take a picture or something?
And so they came down into the camp.
And when they came into the camp, they told their friends about it.
And of course, their friends didn't believe them.
And then they went back the next day, and there was a deer there.
And she thought it was very unusual because the rectum of the deer had been cored out.
Now, historically, Bigfoot has been associated with animal mutilations, in which rectums have been cored out as well as other excisions since going back to at least the early 1970s.
And in one famous case near Elizabeth, Colorado, east of Colorado Springs, A rancher watched a huge, hairy Bigfoot creature run from the pasture and knock down a section of fence around his ranch house.
This was investigated by several scientists and it was reported to the sheriffs there.
I talked with the sheriff and deputy when I was working on my documentary, A Strange Harvest, about this incident where this big, huge, they estimated above eight foot tall hairy creature had literally run into the fence, knocking it down and the big creature ran across the yard.
Strange Big Foot Cases00:13:47
unidentified
And not far from there, at that same time period, two cows had been found dead with erectins poured out and other typical excisions of tissue associated with unusual animal death, raising, again, that issue, is there some connection between these creatures and maybe some of the mutilations?
And in one of the strangest big foot cases on record, the Cascade County Sheriff's Office in Great Falls, Montana had a 1976 file on a rancher who was out hunting and encountered a creature at least eight feet tall with reddish-brown hair.
And in this case, the eyes were reported to be glowing red.
The rancher shot at this Bigfoot creature, and it disappeared in a flash of light, and that sentence was officially reported in the Casgate County Sheriff's file.
Wow.
Yeah, what is it that could disappear in a flash of light?
And at the same time, the Casgate County Sheriff's Office was flooded with animal mutilation reports and eyewitnesses who were saying and reporting moving lights and discs above pastures and above their homes.
Is it possible that it could be that kind of creature?
unidentified
Well, you know, we are in such unexplored, unknown territory.
I suppose anything is possible.
But I personally am intrigued by the idea that there is some connection between these creatures that have been linked in several states, even including South Dakota.
Big moving lights and these strange, big, hairy creatures on the ground, also associated with mutilations.
It's possible that they may have a technological link to what we refer to as the disk craft, or someone else has postulated the possibility that we could be dealing even in some of these cases with very sophisticated holograms that somehow have been engineered to do work on this planet and that in actuality are not strictly biological and have this escape mechanism of going back
into some kind of an electronic form if threatened in some way.
All that sounds like science fiction and highly speculative, but the rancher went far enough to call the Cascade County Sheriff's Office and report that he had shot with his 30 octagon rifle right at this huge creature in front of him and that it disappeared in a flash of light.
I'm telling you, folks, get out your recorder quickly.
Hit record.
You've never heard a sound like this, and if you ever do, you'll be running.
I sure would be.
So one more time.
unidentified
Here we go, and as you listen to it, just ponder this question, but it remains to say, could these sounds and these Bigfoot creatures be part of the UFO phenomenon?
Spent about 30 minutes with him, and I was sort of impressed with the guy because he unabashedly will say he's coming at this from a commercial point of view.
He's not a ufologist.
He's a guy who's working on a film about Elvis Presley, for heaven's sake.
Ran into the film, and I found his easy admission of all that to be credible.
I don't blame him.
That's not saying that the photos are real, but then he gave me permission, Linda, to publish those five photographs in my newsletter.
unidentified
Right, that George Wingfield and I talked with our Dreamland audience about from Seattle.
That's where this one we're going to be talking about came from.
unidentified
And it is perfectly machined.
I believe that one even has moving teeth in the skull.
And the big question has been, could this be a modern 20th century creation to be planted to cause a big host?
That was what some people argued.
However, others who were associated with that dig and that find insist that where the skull was found was associated with artifacts and layers that simply defied the 20th century explanation.
And then, if it is prior to the industrialized age, how could anyone in past centuries have taken one solid piece of quartz crystal and carved it with the fineness of this skull, which you probably have a photo of.
I do.
And do so so that even the teeth, as I understand it, could move.
I have never held this in my hands.
I have talked with people who have, and they say that there is something eerie about its infection.
And do you want to give out any information quickly?
unidentified
Well, I'm always looking for reports on Bigfoot, mutilations, abductions, globals, all of the unusual, unexplained phenomena.
And I would love to hear from people at my fax number, area code 215-491-9842.
Or please write to me at post office box 538 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, zip code 19006.
I always keep confidences, and I only share the names of people who give me permission, and the big value is getting reports and getting the information.
Clyde C. Snow, who's a charismic anthropologist, and Max was in the state coroner's office in Oklahoma City.
They have studied it.
Betty Pat Gatlin, who pioneered putting faces on skulls, she has studied it.
And they said whatever carved this had such a high technology of just what the human skull was that it's just almost impossible to duplicate.
This one's 18 pounds and 2 ounces, and it's anatomically correct from one side to the next.
It's carved with 28 teeth with wisdom teeth carved in.
And it's got the pineal, what they call the pineal gland.
Beneath it, it's the only ultraskull, meaning that there's an ultra indention beneath it.
And what that is, it's got the mastatoid bone that it sits back on, and that ultra indention is the medulla obligata that connects our neck to our spinal cord.
So everything that we possess in our skull, Max possesses in his, and it's all in the right spot.
Plus, it also has major inclusions that go down the cheek line, and these inclusions are so great that they come up through the surface.
Where the surface is slightly cracked open, you can put your fingernail inside of some of these cracks.
So this is not considered really the type and the quality of a quartz crystal that a crystal carver would use or could use to carve into with diamond fit tools.
They would pass over any number of these major inclusions and it's going to instantly shatter.
They wouldn't have had diamond tip tools by the cells.
unidentified
Well, that's two reasons why they realize that the Mayans use them in a ceremony.
But again, they're not believed to be created by the Mayans for those two reasons because they did not possess diamond-fit tools that we know of, and there's no crystal mines in any Mayan site.
So, Star, I'm going to just ask you, in your opinion, is Max the real thing?
unidentified
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And what I've been learning from Max, I can scarcely find the words to describe, that I will say that my entire life has been totally changed since Max came into my life.
Well, I once saw a movie about a healer, and it was a wonderful movie, actually, and I can't recall the name of it right now, but everybody in the community, once they figured out that she could heal, demanded to know where the power came from.
And if it didn't come from God, they said, then she must be a witch, and they damn near burned her at the stake.
So you two potentials, hold on there just a moment.
However, as you recall, and that's what people are going to want to know here, where this power comes from.
And if it doesn't come from God, then look out.
unidentified
Well, that's what I was going to bring up, because I've written several articles for magazines.
And I do believe that MAX, I believe that all good things come from God.
So I do believe that MAX is a gift from God.
So I feel that God has given us many gifts and tools in many forms, such as our preachers, our Bibles, our books, to help us all along our own spiritual path to truth.
And I believe that MAX is simply one of those gifts and tools given to help us along for those who wish to open their heart and mind and receive.
All right, I've got a question by Fax, and we'll get to the phone shortly.
Dear Art, would you ask your guest if the crystal skull that she describes is similar in appearance to the one shown at the beginning of the TV series Arthur C. Clarke's Mysterious World?
unidentified
That skull is the one in the British Museum.
It is.
Yes.
Max is not clear like that.
Max shows that he's gone through many, many earth changes.
What's happened is, and what causes these earth changes and these cracks is that over eons and eons of time, the rock that Max was carved from has looked like it appears that it's gone through about, oh, maybe five or six major earth changes like volcano eruptions, heat, and it cracked open, forming these major inclusions and leaving these different earth changes, looks in them, where there's parts cloudy and parts to clear.
And then it would take literally hundreds of thousands of years for each one of these inclusions to repair itself.
And whatever it graph, it crossed right through the inclusion.
So those are clear, and this is what got the scientists so intrigued, because not because of Max's clearness and lack of inclusions, it's because of these inclusions that's got them so completely baffled as to how he was created.
If they want to leave me a donation, also I have videos, I have documentaries on the skulls, I have books, I have little skulls to stay with Max to pick up his energies.
If they want to buy something, that's fine.
But no, I don't charge people to come here.
I tell people that Max is a personal experience, and that's what he is.
He's helped many, many people in various different ways.
I can never predict.
It's just like going to Lord's and getting to the water, what's going to happen.
You just don't know.
Max is a very, very personal experience, and he's helped many, many people in many ways.
All of them, every one of them, is a personal experience.
I have many people come here that are just not sick.
They just know that Max is a calling.
He opens up the key to the mind, letting some unseen energy force test the center, but it just needed a little push.
He seems to answer questions for people that for some reason those questions would have come before.
Now, these are some of those explainable things.
I don't even begin to understand Max because of how people relate to him.
Well, for the first five years, we always called Max again a closet skull.
Once I didn't know particularly what I had, it was a learning process, and I had to learn completely about what Max is, what he does.
He seems to guide me through dreams.
He does say he wants to be with the people.
He loves people.
He wants to help people.
And I didn't go anywhere for the first five years.
People came to me, and I went out a couple of times a year.
But just in the last year, I've had so many people calling and asking me, please bring Max to our organization, our UFO show, our bookstore, our museum, that I started going out with him two or three times a month.
When I was working with the healer, all types of people come from all over the world.
We worked with cancer people.
He worked with my own child.
They gave her three months to live.
She had osteogenic sarcoma, and she was 12 years old and had her left leg amputated to the left hip.
And it was very, only 1,500 children live in the United States.
The healer worked with her.
She touched the skull.
They did keep her going, and the tumors completely remissioned from her lungs, and she lived for over three more years, very well.
However, the healer, when he got sick and he could no longer do his healing work, she became sick again and passed away when she was just 16 years old.
They've healed all kinds of hit things there.
But I never know what's going to be healed.
It's just people, it's almost like the healing comes from within the person.
The power of the skull is the healing within the person who holds the belief system.
May I say something as, because I do spiritual healing with Max, that what I feel is that Max is programmed with the wisdom of the ancients through sound and light, and that he holds the divine order in there.
And so when we can connect the person's energy fields back into the divine pattern, into the divine balance and the divine order, so that the person's energy works balanced and correctly, that then the body has what it needs, has the power of the light to be able to overcome disease.
Okay, these are the things that I hear people who do acupuncture, I hear people who do chiropracty, I hear people who do all these sorts of things say roughly the same things, that it puts you back in line or puts you in line with some greater force.
Are these all similar things?
unidentified
Yes.
They all that I worked with, did work, the Red Hat, the llama, they did work for the meridian or acupuncture points of the patient's body.
I worked through what is called the axiotonal grid system, which is that invisible network of light, the pathways of light that connect all of the subtle bodies from the without to the within and from the above to the below.
Right, but it would be nice to have a little documentation.
unidentified
Right, right.
I've had lots of people tell me in letters they've been healed for various things.
One person walked in and said she hadn't heard in three weeks, and her ear popped open the minute she got Max's energy field because he gives off energy in a two and a half block radius.
Going back to this movie I was talking about, I recall that when Ellen Burston would put her hand on somebody, there would be an actual exchange of heat, a feeling of heat.
unidentified
That's what they feel off of Max.
People who are tuned to the crystal feel this big heat that comes off of him.
I don't even try to explain it.
I'm telling you that I don't know why these things happen, but it just seems to happen.
Have you had moments when you wondered about yourself?
unidentified
Well, certainly.
Because when you're dealing with the unseen forces and the supernatural, what we call supernatural occurrences, of course, you're going to wonder about what is real.
Yes.
But what has been just incredible in this journey has been meeting other people who are sharing the same kinds of experiences.
All right, question by facts from Honolulu, Hawaii.
Are all skulls made of clear quartz or are skulls made of, I think it says, fluorite or amethyst or other crystals?
unidentified
I know of the ones that are made from the clear quartz, like Max.
And then they have the, there's an amethyst skull in a private collection in San Jose, California, one in San Jose, California, I mean one in San Jose, Mexico.
These are in private collections.
They're small.
And they're made of rose quartz.
I think that Max also goes to the Native American Indian ceremonies.
And one of the indigenous elders there said they had one.
It was black quartz, a black skull.
And these people, the Native Americans, also talk about the skulls in time.
You go through the sweat lodge, the medicine wheel, the sacred pipe.
And indigenous elders from all over the world have talked about the skull.
So I was wondering, what do you think about the people in Chicago that sit in their room and are scared to open a window or a door to die in there because they figure somebody would rob them?
I was just curious if either one of the ladies tried to find, besides our get answers and regards to some of the things that, future things that might happen, we know what we're talking about.
All right, yeah, sure.
I can even amplify on that one.
Ladies, I've had, I have a good friend whose name is Gordon Michael Scallion.
Gordon Michael Scallion has made some incredible predictions.
Has Max given anybody the ability to, or has Max caused anybody to look into the future?
And if so, what has been told?
unidentified
To me, no, I don't believe that Max, for myself, is used as like a crystal ball.
I do believe he's mainly for his person's spiritual side and their heart and their body and their mind and their soul.
Now, several people have said that Max has said that we have to clean up our acts, that he's here for a definite purpose to help mankind and to help him to move along their own path.
But, you know, Star, might answer a little bit, elaborate on that, son.
Well, what Max has shown me is that which we are moving towards.
Most people who look ahead see many possible futures, not all of them necessarily pleasant.
You either avoid hearing or listening or thinking about that or...
unidentified
And the earth is always changing.
I mean, I was in California during all the fires.
I was in the Midwest during all the floods.
I've been in California during earthquakes, you know.
And undoubtedly, there is a shifting of form that is happening, a purification and a cleansing.
And we can choose to look at all of these changes, which have always been and always will be, with fear, or we can, you know, look at them with more open eyes.
But again, so many people, intuitives, say that we're headed down a very terrible path and that it does not have to be the future and that the future is Dependent on our behavior.
unidentified
Exactly.
Yes, if we focus on love and oneness, then that's what we are creating as co-creators.
I appreciate it.
Okay, I appreciate that.
I believe.
But if we focus on negativity and fear, then that's what we're going to create are things.
But a pragmatic cold view of what's going on around us right now, societally, economically, politically, boy, you name it, it's a mess and arguably getting messier.
Earthquake activity, strange weather, all the rest of it seems to be intensifying.
If the future is nothing but a bunch of multi-dimensional mansions and all looks cool, then why are we in this mess?
unidentified
I believe that the lid is being blown up, all of the denial and all of that which has been held inside and stuffed and not looked at for generations and generations, and that all of that is coming out now, that it can be healed.
I guess I was trying, and I'll try one more time, to delineate between sort of a psychic.
In other words, I'm trying to find out whether there's the real power in Max, which you both seem to be insisting there is, or whether it's people believing in Max.
I mean, I've understood the whole basis of voodoo was that you could be hurt even by somebody if you believed they could hurt you.
She can, but it's going to have to be after the break.
Ladies, we're coming up with the brakes.
Tight, relax for a few moments.
One more hour with Joanne and Star and Max the Crystal Skull.
There are only 13 ancient crystal skulls in the world.
Joanne has one of them.
We'll be back.
Was it 20, 20 or 60 minutes?
One of them went down there and exposed the Filipino healers.
That's what I recall.
unidentified
You can't say that about all the Filipino healers, and I will say that in the five years that I traveled with this healer, I saw some incredible miracles happen.
Well, I'd just like to say that I find it very interesting, and I've read about the crystal skulls and all that, but I just have some really negative feelings about stars rolling the whole thing, that's all.
This healer that I worked with was not so much into the manifestation as he was into people believing in the power of God within themselves to heal themselves.
And that was the focus of this healer.
There are other healers who are into, you know, big manifestation.
Back now to Joanne and Stuck and to a call somewhere east of the Rockies.
You're on the air.
Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified
Oklahoma.
I know the late Joe Pine from the Korean War.
He exposed some of the people that were cutting the band-aids with their hands and then they were pretending to pull chickens and turkeys out of people's fatty areas and it was already there and stuff.
There is some power imbued in Crystal, and I must admit, I would like to get next to Max myself for a little while.
Of the people that approach Max, not the psychics, not the sensitives, but normal people.
And you tell them this story, I'm sure, because it's sitting there in the Max box and everybody can see it.
So they come over to the house.
And what do they get out of it?
unidentified
Are there people who come over and say, And then all of a sudden they approach it and they start touching it and they start feeling this energy field coming off of it.
And then some people feel absolutely nothing and they write me weeks.
It's a delayed reaction.
They write me weeks and months later saying, well, I didn't think anything was going to happen, but all of a sudden it hit me like a bomb.
He appeared to them and told them something.
Sometimes they don't remember what it is.
But we feel, I feel that Max is like calling in his loose fragments, if that makes any sense, that he's calling to people.
And all of these people who come into contact with him and come into his presence, they're all little loose fragments around here that he's calling back in the presence to tell them something, whether they remember it consciously or unconsciously.
It's like the shepherd calling in a sheep.
He's, for some reason, calling in these loose fragments.
I wondered, there's a lot of question about Max's origin.
Yes.
Have you ever considered the fact that if you knew what's the face that matches the skull, whether it was a model or whether it was the original person or being who owned the skull, so to speak, if you knew what that face looked like.
You mean was it a self-portrait?
Was it a self-portrait or was it a portrait of an ideal type, of the type of person who, the craftsman that crafted the skull?
And what I wanted to ask is I was doing some research, and the question that Starr had, Starr had said that the skull had hold some secrets and that it had keys to the mysteries and opened doors of chambers.
And I had done some research about nations.
And they're associated with skull and crossbones and Egyptology.
And then Egypt, you know, Egyptology is associated with pyramids and chambers.
So I was wondering if this skull had any relation to this type of thought.
Well, when we take photographs, research photographs of the skull, you can see various images in it.
You can see pyramids, several pyramids under its nose that goes back inside.
You can see something that looks like Bigfoot.
You can see underwater scenes, inner-earth scenes.
You can see extraterrestrial that fits in its eye.
And one of the things that's really interesting, as I mentioned, I was just down in the Yucatan, and I noticed that NASA's nose indenture is shaped exactly like the Mayan arches in the sacred sites.