Art Bell

All Episodes

Previous Next

July 19, 1995 - Art Bell

02:51:12

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Presidential Candidate - Alan Keyes - Open Lines

Participants

Main voices

01:36:05

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 19th, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest.
		And great it is and a beautiful night.
		I bid you welcome from Tahiti and the Hawaiian Islands, east to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, north to we believe the North Pole, and south down into northern South America.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. I've calculated even though the borders have extended, we still were in and out of Dover Coast.
		So I guess it works.
		Hi, everybody.
		Welcome to the program five hours of uninterrupted live, unscreened talk radio.
		The most dangerous type and the most fun.
		We're going to start with something a little bit different this morning.
		I have on the line in just a moment Alan Keyes, presidential candidate.
		Bill is a, actually it's Ambassador Alan Keyes, former ambassador to the U.N. and very much a conservative, a pro-life moral conservative, he calls himself.
		And we're going to talk to him about his presidential candidacy.
		In some of the material he sent me, says Alan Keyes electrifies the grassroots, and we've got all kinds of straw poll results here from Salt Lake City, Utah, showing Dole ahead, but Keyes second.
		Dole at 33, Keys at 20.
		Chicago Conservatives, straw poll.
		Graham 36, Keyes 35.
		Clayton County, Georgia, Keyes wins it, 30%.
		Graham 26.
		Dole 15.
		Fresno, California, May 6th, Dole 39, Keys 31.
		Wilson-Dorn and Graham Trail.
		April 8th, Oklahoma City, Graham wins, 50%.
		Keyes, number two, Dole, and Buchanan follow.
		So a few key straw poll results, if you'll excuse the metaphor.
		And we're going to talk to Alan Keyes, Ambassador Keyes, right now.
		So let's do it.
		Ambassador Keyes, welcome to the program.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are somewhere in, I guess, Central California?
unidentified		That's right, Camarillo.
		I think.
		Also, I'm staying at the West Lake Hiats, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, nice to have you out here in the West.
		Well, thank you.
		Ambassador, I would ask you to stay good and close to the phone and give us lots of audio if you can.
		I guess I'm going to ask you first, why do you want to be president?
unidentified		I got into the race mainly out of concern over the assault that was being mounted against, number one, the pro-life blank and the Republican platform, and number two, the strong commitment that the party has had to stand up for what I believe are the key issues in the country affecting the moral and material environment for the marriage-based family.
		Those issues, which were articulated in a very forthright fashion at the 1992 convention, played an important role in 1994, have been, I think, put on a back burner, or at least there's been an attempt to put them on the back burner by some of the leadership in the party.
		And so it was in that context that I stood forward and began to articulate in a forthright fashion my concerns about that and to get a response around the country that encouraged me to believe that there are a lot of people in the Republican Party who believe that these issues need to be addressed, and I think they deserve a voice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think of Bob Dole's position on his pro-life position?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A little shaky?
unidentified		Well, more than a little shaky, I think.
		But at the moment, entirely unclear.
		I think both Dole and Graham have been very reluctant to deal with this issue in a forthright way.
		And even though they point to their record and talk about, well, there I am, I don't have to say any more about it, I think that the key thing that you have to do on the pro-life issue in America is to articulate it.
		That's what people who are in the national spotlight need to do.
		That's the way they exert leadership on this issue.
		So if they're not willing to talk about it, they're not really committed to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, you're cutting up the pro-life pie right now with Pat Buchanan.
		How would you define a difference between your position and his on pro-life?
unidentified		I don't know that there is one.
		I think we're both strongly committed to keeping the pro-life plank in the Republican platform.
		I think that that's been important to me.
		I do think that Pat may have gotten a little shy at first about this issue because in the first stages of the campaign he wasn't articulating it.
		When I stood up, for instance, in Louisiana, I was the only candidate who was putting this forward at the time.
		And in, I think, Arizona after that, it was still the case.
		But gradually, I think others came to realize, one, that this issue itself, pro-life, is very important.
		And I'm glad to see that that has put it back, I guess, in a position of prominence.
		And others, like Phil Graham and others, are now beginning to recognize that the grassroots people of the Republican Party are insisting that the real moral crisis of this country be put front and center and that we have to address it or we're not going to be able to deal with most of the other problems that we're facing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Here's one way to address it.
		The other day I heard, and I can't recall who it was, somebody calling for congressional hearings on when life begins.
		Is that a good idea?
unidentified		Well, I actually think it's not a relevant question.
		I think that whole debate is based on a misunderstanding of the issue.
		It is not for us to make that decision.
		And it really, if you think seriously about the principles that are involved, the Declaration of Independence says that it is an issue of creation.
		We are created equal, not born equal.
		And therefore the question is, simply, are we dealing with an offspring that partakes of human nature?
		And the way in which we determine that is not by looking at what goes on in the womb.
		You know, dogs come from dogs, cats come from cats, human beings come from human beings.
		And so you only look at the parentage.
		You only look at that question of whether the mother and father are human.
		If the ancestry is human, the offspring is human, and therefore entitled to respect, which is due to the nature of human being, not because
		of their development but simply because of their God endowed nature all right so in a nutshell at the moment of creation at the moment of creation and of course that moment precedes any human activity or involvement and nature is then transmitted by virtue of the lineage of the mother and the father not by virtue of one stage of development in the womb or anywhere else how do you assess what is your own assessment of the race when you get very pragmatic and you look at it Alan Keyes,
art bell ▲ ● ▼		even Pat Buchanan, nearly everybody else but Bob Dole right now seems a long shot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that pragmatic?
unidentified		Not at all.
		I think this race is wide open.
		And I don't understand why people are being taken in by early numbers that basically are based on name recognition and pretty much nothing else.
		I mean, and if I were Bob Dole right now, I'd be seriously worried because his position in the last several months has done nothing but erode.
		He started out as a frontrunner in the mid-50s.
		He's now a frontrunner tending toward the mid-40s.
		That earlier looked to me like a tendency that's going to last.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, being an early frontrunner traditionally has not been very lucky.
unidentified		You just have lots of time to lose your position.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		Nowhere to go but down.
		What about the Speaker of the House?
		Now, he's kind of waffling about here and there and suggesting that, well, if there becomes a sudden vacuum in the race, why he might jump in.
		What's your take?
		Do you think he will?
unidentified		Well, I don't think there is going to be a sudden vacuum in the race.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to hope there's going to be one.
unidentified		Well, no, not at all.
		I think we're building up a grassroots campaign that isn't going to depend on a vacuum.
		We are creating a new reality in the Republican Party by consolidating what I think is the pro-life moral majority, if I can put it that way, at the Republican grassroots.
		We are energizing people, getting new people involved, pulling people out who have been non-committal in the past, and we're busily organizing over these months and over the course of the next several months to put together what I think will be the strongest grassroots campaign that's been seen in American politics since the late 60s.
		And that's our objective, and that's what we're working to achieve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ambassador, you gave a speech recently on C-SPAM that electrified a lot of people.
		I had a lot of calls on this program about it.
		People were very excited.
		What was the genesis of that speech?
		What electrified people about that?
unidentified		Now, do you mean to speak in New Hampshire?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I believe that's the one.
unidentified		Well, I think that the main thing that caught people was that I was articulating what a lot of people feel, that we have been dealing with our problems in this country for a long time as if we could throw money at them, as if we could spend money on them, as if they were the result of economic factors and money problems.
		And yet it's increasingly clear that those problems are related to phenomena that have at their root moral rather than material causes.
		Mainly the collapse of the marriage-based family due to, I believe, the adoption of a corrupt concept of freedom that actually contradict the moral and emotional attitudes that are needed to sustain family life.
		And so a lot of people have come to the conclusion that we don't have money problems, we have moral problems.
		There was a line in the speech that was very much, I think, on the minds of people who responded to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you believe the definition of freedom has been corrupted?
unidentified		Well, you know, freedom is defined in the Declaration of Independence as based on the idea that unalienable rights come from God.
		And if your rights come from God, then they must be respected out of respect for God's authority.
		And they must be exercised in a way which also preserves and respects that authority.
		So the understanding of freedom is naturally tempered with a sense of respect and responsibility towards the authority from which they come.
		Freedom and responsibility therefore go hand in hand.
		In the last 20 or 30 years, we've redefined that.
		Freedom has been defined in terms of will and choice and convenience and self-gratification with no sense at all that there are any constraints or responsibilities that go along with it.
		And that is, I think, epitomized in this doctrine of abortion, where freedom is defined in such a way that you need to respect not even the basic principles of freedom itself, and that in the end ends up being self-destructive.
		And so freedom is defined in such a way that it can be exercised so as to destroy its own premises, and that means that it comes to an end.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's see how really pro-life you are.
		You know, the big test, of course, is always rape.
		If a 16-year-old girl is raped, no abortion, Ambassador?
unidentified		No abortion.
		The rape exceptions have no ground in principle.
		You cannot punish an innocent human being for the sins of one of its parents.
		And the notion that you can take the life of an innocent child because the father is guilty of rape is, I think, a travesty of justice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about the psychological survival of the victim?
unidentified		Well, I think that you would want to do everything you can, but I think that in the context of that moral universe, you know, as a mother also, I would understand that the innocent life of the child is not to be abused for the sake of the father.
		And I think that that moral balance would, you know, properly counsel, prevent psychological damage from being permanent.
		There are going to be awful, I think, trauma to go through with rape anyway, whether a child is there or not.
		And the counseling that is needed to help someone survive the rape would have to take account of the need to prepare them also for the lives of the child, including preparing them for the decision to make as to putting the child out to adoption or in other ways that would relieve the lifelong burden of the mother.
		I don't think that would necessarily be something that the mother would have to be burdened with forever.
		So you'd want to work with and counsel the mother to get her through this difficult situation.
		But I think you could do that in a way that would preserve as well the life of the child.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A tougher case, incest.
unidentified		Same argument holds.
		You cannot punish the child for the sins of its parents.
		And it's simply unjust.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One final category, the toughest of all, perhaps, the life of the mother.
unidentified		Well, see, the life of the mother exception isn't tough at all for me, because in principle, that's the one exception that has to be made.
		Because according to our doctrine of liberty, we have an unalienable right to life.
		That word unalienable means that it cannot be surrendered under any circumstances whatsoever.
		And so we cannot coerce the mother into doing something that, according to our doctrine of freedom, she has no right to do.
		How do you delineate?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but how do you delineate?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are two lives as you have defined them.
unidentified		That's right.
		So the mother cannot be forced to give up her life.
		And since she cannot be forced to do it, the state cannot put her in a situation where she is coerced to give up her own life in order to save the life of the child.
		That does not mean that one could not counsel her as to what the moral choice might be, especially as a parent.
		You know, I think parents, when we put ourselves in the way of having children, are also putting ourselves in the way of the obligation to risk our lives for their sake.
		But that is not something I believe that the state can coerce.
		And so in that situation, you have to make, in this case, an exception where there is a direct threat to the physical life of the public.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you are very strictly, then, pro-life.
		I think we've defined that here in the last few moments.
		Suppose you were to be the Republican candidate running against Bill Clinton.
		The polls all show, and the American liberal press constantly repeats them, that about two-thirds of the American people are pro-choice.
unidentified		That's not true.
		The only way they reach that figure is by including, as pro-choice, rape, incest, life of the mother, exception makers.
		And they are not pro-choice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They are pro-life.
unidentified		They are pro-lifers who disagree with me on a couple of points, but they are still in principle pro-life Americans.
unidentified		And when you count them as pro-life, over 50% of the American people are pro-life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		But would that full two-thirds number be realized when people looked at your very strict definition of pro-life situation?
		No, not at all.
unidentified		I think that within the context of the Republican Party and the pro-life movement, the three exceptioners have worked with the one exception people like myself and the 100%ers for a long time.
		That is what the pro-life movement is composed of and has been composed of.
		I go to pro-life gatherings all the time where all three varieties of pro-life people are included and they've worked together for years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where do you disagree with Pat Buchanan?
		I'm not talking now about pro-life.
		I'm just talking generally.
		What would be your biggest disagreement with Pat Buchanan?
unidentified		Well, I think the biggest disagreement, and one that actually exemplifies a fundamentally different approach, is on the immigration issue, where I am strongly in favor of measures like Proposition 187 that limit illegal immigration and seek to enforce the law so as to maintain the distinction between legal and illegal immigration.
		But I do not accept the notion that immigration overall is to blame for America's problem and we need a ban on immigration and so forth and so on, which Pat Buchanan has accepted.
		I think that's important.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He wants, he says, a timeout, a period for assimilation.
unidentified		Yeah, I think that that's important.
		We cannot shut the door.
		We can regulate immigration, but immigration is part of the American heritage, and we do not, I believe, have the right to shut our minds to that heritage or our doors to the hope that this nation necessarily arouses in the hearts and minds of people around the world.
		And it would be unfair.
		I mean, all of us are but some generations removed from being immigrants of one kind or another ourselves.
		And I think it's entirely incongruous.
		It's also just false to blame this country's problems on immigration.
		You know, if we have a problem, it is a problem with the corruption of our own character, our own standards, our own sense of our moral identity as a people.
		And that problem wasn't fomented by foreigners.
		It was fomented by, I don't know, liberal Harvard professors and others who are quite homegrown products, unfortunately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about his isolationism?
		The one area I disagree with, Pat Buchanan, is his amount of isolationism.
		And do you share those views generally with him or disagree?
unidentified		Well, no, I think I am not an isolationist.
		I believe that America has an important leadership role to play.
		I believe in our engagement in that leadership in the world for the sake of our interests and our principles.
		I do believe that in certain areas, like the World Trade Organization and so forth, we have engaged in an unconscionable surrender of sovereignty that shouldn't have been tolerated and should not have been supported.
		But I don't consider that isolationism.
		I just consider that to be prudent foreign policy.
		And you don't surrender to a foreign-dominated body control of your border for trade purposes.
		It doesn't make any sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Ambassador, hold on just a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back to you.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ambassador Keys, you're back on the air.
		I want to take you around the world a little bit now because there's plenty to talk about.
		We'll start outside the country and with the biggest mess of Bosnia.
		Yesterday, our Secretary of State, Warren Christopher, seemed to come full circle in a very short time and was back talking about airstrikes, airstrikes again to try and protect what's left of the so-called safe zones.
		And I'm recalling, gee, didn't we just lose an F-16?
		And gee, the last time we had airstrikes, didn't they take UN hostages right away?
		And that stopped it.
		And the UN, as far as I know, is still there, huddled in their own little safe areas.
		And here we have the Secretary of State talking about airstrikes again.
		It kind of blew my mind.
		What do you think?
unidentified		Well, see, I don't understand why it is that we are insisting on taking measures supposedly to defend enclaves and so forth and so on when we won't take the decisive step of lifting the arms embargo And letting the Bosnian government defend itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dead right.
unidentified		It doesn't make any sense.
		This whole UN policy of maintaining a military imbalance that encourages the Serbs to continue the war in the belief that their military advantage will lead to victory.
		They won't lift the arms embargo.
		They perpetuate that situation.
		And then they send in so-called peacekeepers to defend people who could defend themselves by way of not defending them because they can't shoot and they don't do it.
		It doesn't make any sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it doesn't.
		Even the liberal Joe Biden was up standing on the floor yesterday, San Flora, saying, genocide, genocide, genocide.
		It is genocide.
		And if anything, I almost feel part of it.
unidentified		Well, see, I think they've been set up, though.
unidentified		In a situation like that, the worst thing that you can do is to leave one side disarmed in the face of the other so that it cannot defend itself even when it has the will and moral wherewithal, which I think the Bosnians certainly do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then, how is the president's position morally defended, period?
unidentified		I don't know, you see, because I think that we ought to have the courage to exert the kind of leadership that we need to in this situation.
		And if that arms embargo is wrong, we should not be constrained to pursue a wrong-headed policy just because our allies don't have the sense to abandon it.
		And I think under those circumstances, that's a time when American leadership has sometimes to be exerted on the basis of our ability to act unilaterally.
		And I think also we need to induce our allies to understand that you shouldn't have peacekeepers in a situation where there is no peace to keep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's for sure.
		But to seemingly return to a policy that was just demonstrated as a failed policy, you know, here within the last couple of months is incredible.
		They're absolutely without direction.
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ambassador, hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		Take a rest.
		Drink a cup of coffee or something.
		We'll be right back to you.
		Ambassador Alan Keyes, candidate for president.
		We'll be back in a moment.
unidentified		We'll be back in a moment.
		We'll be back in a moment.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 19th, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is presidential candidate Ambassador Alan Keys.
		We'll get back to him in just a moment.
		Let me take care of a little bit of business here right at the beginning, and then it'll be clear sailing to the top of the hour.
		We've only got them for an hour, so we've got to make max use of the time.
unidentified		We've only got them for an hour, so we've got them for an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to Ambassador Alan Keyes.
		Ambassador, welcome back.
		Hi.
		Yesterday, the President gave his long-awaited, anticipated speech on affirmative action.
		The bottom line seems to be that he would like to keep it.
		He talks about no quotas, no preferences for individuals, unqualified individuals, no reverse discrimination.
		But, said the President, quote, we should make a simple slogan, mend it, but don't end it.
		And so there you are, Bob Dole, Phil Graham, everybody out criticizing the president's position.
		Here's your chance.
		Do you agree or disagree?
unidentified		Well, I think the president's position is basically a lot of double talk.
		It represents no change in the existing situation.
		The thing that I've noticed about the proponents of quotas and all of that is that now that they've realized that the overwhelming majority of the American people are against those things, they're turning around and saying, oh, quotas?
		We never were favoring anything like that.
		Far be it from us to have ever suggested anything like that.
		It's all double speech.
		And what essentially Clinton's speech was today was the same thing.
		How may I ask, are you going to have a situation of preferences when you don't have reverse discrimination?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		How do you have affirmative action without quotas, really?
		I don't understand that either.
unidentified		The notion, if you were to return to the original notion that you were going to have, oh, I don't know, outreach, if you were going to make sure that certain portions and areas of the country and disadvantaged groups of people were given information access, that you made sure your recruiters for companies would visit high schools that were in these areas, make sure kids were apprised of opportunities, helped to create programs that would give people who were disadvantaged special training and so forth.
		That kind of action, I don't think anybody in the country objects to, especially if you're targeting disadvantage to bring people up to an even place at the starting line.
		That is different than establishing quotas and preferences that are based on gender, based on sort of biological factors and racial factors.
		I think most Americans see that as simply unfair.
		It's a return to the principle that you're going to be judged by your lineage, your heritage, your background, and so forth and so on, instead of being judged on the basis of your individual merits.
		And I think that that contradicts a long-standing American tradition that goes all the way back to the beginning of the colonies in this country where people came here to escape that kind of system of ancestral privilege in the old world.
		It is just a wrong principle, and I think it contradicts the basic American sense of fairness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Congressman Mfumi, who heads the Black Caucus yesterday, said, quote, Senator Dole, Senator Graham, Governor Wilson, Mr. Buchanan, we challenge you and others as yet unmentioned, that would be you, I guess, to once again present improved alternatives to fight discrimination.
		In other words, you're going to do away with affirmative action.
		How do you continue to fight discrimination?
unidentified		Well, as I just said, I think if you are worried about the disadvantages that have resulted from past patterns of discrimination, the usual argument made for affirmative action, then target those disadvantages.
		Go to those areas where you have low-income people, where you have poor educational systems, where you have people who have been deprived maybe in terms of educational opportunities in the past, and target those disadvantages.
		But the mere fact that my children, for instance, are black children, should not mean that in spite of their favorable economic circumstances, they get special privileges in the society and special consideration.
		It is wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you use the word target.
		Target how?
		I mean, how do you target the disadvantaged without providing advantage?
unidentified		But what I'm saying is, when I say target the disadvantage, the notion that you provide help for people, say scholarship help to people who are from low-income families.
		I don't think people object to this.
		And yet that's a form of affirmative action for low-income people, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
unidentified		But it's not something people object to because it's not based on a racial classification or gender.
		If you're somebody who is in need and has the ability, we'll help you out.
		And I think that the same is true in terms of job training and other things of that sort.
		It could be true even in terms of job recruitment to make sure that in the pool of applicants who you are considering for a job, you have people of diverse backgrounds.
		But I think what people would object to is the notion that once you get into the pool for consideration, you are going to be given a job based on your skin color instead of based on your qualifications.
		So I think all of those things, right up to the point where you make that judgment, are things that people would accept.
		But once you're at the starting line, they want you to be judged on a fair basis based on your individual merit and qualification.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess we have come a long way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The obvious question I should ask now as a follow-up since we're in this category is, can a black man be elected president in America today?
unidentified		Well, sure.
		I think that a person can be elected president in America if what they are offering to the people of the country corresponds to what is on the hearts and minds of a majority of the voters at the time they stand for office as the key challenges, the key agenda for policy facing the country.
		And I think that that's going to be the determining factor in 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		There are two big hearings going on right now, Waco and the Whitewater hearings, looking into the death of Vince Foster.
		If you want to give me your take on either one, that's fine.
		But my question is instead sort of political.
		Let's, for a second, imagine that something turns up in Whitewater that creates a bigger vacuum than anybody expected.
		In other words, it gets the president.
		Would you rather run against President Clinton or whoever else the Democrats might come up with?
unidentified		Well, you know, I think that most Republicans would certainly prefer that you have a malingering Bill Clinton, who is suffering from what appears to be a low-grade but reasonably fatal political fever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, gee, that's going to give him a tough choice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Suppose they come up with something that would, in effect, take him out.
unidentified		Well, but that's the point I'm making.
		If you take Clinton out, there would be the possibility, I think, that the Democrats would actually turn to somebody electable and who would give the Republicans a run.
		It would not necessarily decide the outcome, of course, because I think that as shown in 1994, the American people, I think, are very deeply suspicious of the agenda that Democrats have to offer and of the dominance in the Democratic Party of a liberal reed socialist wing that really prefers government-dominated solutions and high taxes and high government spending.
		I think any Democrat is going to have to run with that wing of the party hanging around their neck, which I think is basically one that does not correspond to the values and preferences of the American people.
		So the Republicans would still have their best shot in a long time at controlling both the White House and the Congress, but it might be a little tougher than if you're running against the weakest vote.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've probably got better information than I do, and you can jump away from this one if you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But is there anything in your opinion contained in what will come out in Whitewater or in the Waco hearings that would disable the President?
unidentified		Well, I don't know that I have any better information than you do.
		I kind of doubt it.
		But I would say that my impression is that nothing that comes out in the Waco hearings is going to damage the President.
		I think what comes out in the Waco hearings ought to seriously damage Janet Reno, but then what has already come out should have resulted in her resignation.
		I think in terms of Whitewater, my guess is that the direct Whitewater things are not going to...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then it was done.
		The children that did survive were then later interviewed by psychiatrists who said they were not abused.
		And yet yesterday in the Waco hearings, here came a now 14-year-old who claimed Koresh had sex with her when she was 10.
		Now, I presume you saw or heard about that testimony.
unidentified		I certainly did.
		I didn't see the testimony.
		I heard about it.
		My wife watched it, and I talked to her just earlier this evening, because I was out doing my can't say anything.
		And I have to say that we're looking at an effort, I believe, to distract the attention of the public from the real issue.
		Because the question of whether David Koresh did at some point abuse children does not then solve the question of whether Janet Reno made a correct judgment when they stormed that compound in a way that they, I think, could have been reasonably certain was going to result in the destruction of life.
		Did they have a proper foundation and basis for taking that step?
		All the evidence that has come out so far suggests that they did not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Secretary of the Treasury Rubin was on one of the Sunday shows here a couple of weeks ago, and they asked him repeatedly whether the president authorized the final assault on the compound at Waco, and he refused each time to answer that question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that a question that should be answered In the hearings.
unidentified		Yes, it is.
		I think it's a question that should be answered because we need to determine, one, just where the responsibility lay.
		Of course, the responsibility in the sense I believe always lies with the president, you know, when it's his administration.
		But I think that the actual line of decision needs to be clear, and also the extent of Bill Clinton's incompetence needs to be made clear.
		Because I think if he was involved and did authorize the final assault, then he bears the ultimate responsibility for that disaster.
		If he was not involved, then I think that's a clear indication of incompetence, because he should have been.
		That was, after all, a situation in which you had the lives of 85 Americans, including children, at stake, where the government was heavily involved.
		And if Bill Clinton was not keeping himself abreast of it and informed, and if he had not left instructions that before any final decision was made, he was to be involved, then he's an incompetent who certainly ought to be removed from office in the next election.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, the Secretary of the Treasury and others have expressed pre-worry about the hearings that what will come out of it will damage gun control efforts.
		Now, I found those statements odd, as if they know something we don't.
		If David Koresh is simply portrayed as a crazy child molester or whatever it is they're going to portray him as, in what way would that damage gun control efforts?
		There must be something that they imagine that's going to come up that's going to make the government look like the jack-booted thugs that somebody called them some time ago.
unidentified		Well, I think there is a lot of fear about that because there have been a lot of questions raised about whether or not their approach to that question was, one, justified and two carried out in a competent way that respected the rights of the people who were involved.
unidentified		I think those are questions about the overall attitude toward gun control and gun regulation and how it's being enforced that are on the minds of a lot of law-abiding citizens in this country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what is your position?
unidentified		Well, I'm a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, and I believe that the whole gun control agenda is actually based on a false premise, the notion that human beings are not responsible for their acts, but instead their instruments are.
		And I think that that's an absurd denial of human moral capacity and accountability.
		So I think that both in principle and in fact, because empirically gun control also doesn't have any impact on crime.
		It's a phony solution for a real problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, then what is the motivation for those pushing for it?
unidentified		Well, I think it's twofold.
		I think you have people who are just opposed to gun ownership and would like to see people in this country disarmed and wish the Second Amendment out of the Constitution.
		I think you have others who are deluded into believing that you can take the totemic approach to crime control, set the gun up as a totem, and if you only remove it, that's going to deal with the problem.
		Of course, you're removing it from the wrong hand, and it does not have an impact on the real problem.
		I think there are also others who are simply, you know, I believe, subscribing to an agenda that's been around for a long time, in which you want to produce a society in which the citizens are not armed.
		The government is the only armed party, which then makes it a society easier to control and easier to subjugate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're describing the fear, the main fear, I think, of the militias.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've always rather thought the gun controllers are doing it because they're powerless to do anything else, and the gun is basically defenseless politically and an easy target.
unidentified		Well, see, that's what I mean by the totemic approach, because I think it's basically setting the gun up as a totem, and then by getting rid of the totem, you're getting rid of the problem.
unidentified		It's an excuse for looking like you're doing something, even though it has nothing to do with the real issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your take on the militias and the investigations?
unidentified		Well, you know, I think that's partly a phony issue.
		If there are people who are involved in real lawbreaking and real crime, then investigate those crimes and deal with the lawbreaking.
		The mere fact that people are part of the militias and are exercising their Second Amendment rights, if they do so within the law, is not an issue at all.
		And I don't think that it should be raised as well.
		I think the militias are being demonized as part of the campaign to demonize gun ownership overall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The anti-terrorism legislation that's pending, I recall seeing a militia fellow stand and look a senator in the eye and say, if you pass this, it's not a matter of when, or rather if, but only a matter of when, referring to an armed conflict.
unidentified		Well, you know, I think that the counterterrorism legislation does have in it a lot of off-the-shelf elements that aren't related to really dealing with the problem of terrorism, in which they are giving powers to the president to determine what terrorist groups are in very broad language, but I can think could be dangerous not just to militias, but to anybody who happens to have a political opinion that's adverse to the government in power at the time.
		And I think that those kinds of steps are not necessary.
		This notion that we have to give up our liberties in order to have security in this society returns us, I think, to the false reasoning that has led human beings to be subjugated by despotic governments for centuries before this country was founded.
		This country is based on the notion that liberty and order can go hand in hand.
		That requires, of course, that you have a self-disciplined citizenry and a government that respects the rights of that citizenry.
		And that's what you ought to be working towards.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds like there's a lot of libertarianism in Alan Keyes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that true?
unidentified		Well, I think at one level there is.
unidentified		I mean, there are limits to that libertarianism, because I think in the end, yes, government exists to secure our rights, but our sense of what our rights are has to be grounded in a firm sense of the difference between right and wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		What would President Alan Keyes, for example, then, do with regard to the drug war?
		Almost everybody agrees what we're doing right now is not working.
		Now, there has been a call for a national referendum on drugs.
		Legalize them or get really tough.
		What do you think?
unidentified		Well, see, I don't think you can legalize drugs at this stage of the game because to legalize would be a grant of permission, which I think would just add an element that completed the moral destruction of this society, which is already moving along at a fast enough pace as it is, I believe.
		So I think that you have to get serious about enforcement, but you also have to get serious about the moral education that arms people against drug use.
		I think that's the real source of the drug problem in America.
		It's an aspect of the moral collapse of the country.
		Because in point of fact, if you have a citizenry that has a decent respect for itself, drug abuse would not be a serious problem because people would realize that it is incompatible and inconsistent with the rational exercise of their freedom.
		But we don't have that sense of a strong moral identity because it's no longer being inculcated in our children, no longer be passed along with a sense of standards and self-discipline.
		So I think that you have to have tough law enforcement, you have to have a moral restoration that then is based, I believe, on the Nancy Reagan approach.
		That you don't teach kids about the moral calculus of drug use.
		You teach them that it is morally wrong and that you don't do things that are morally wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would that mean in terms of, for example, where you would want to see money put in fighting drugs?
		Would you want to interdict?
		Would you want to treat?
		Would you want to do all of it?
		How would you come down there?
unidentified		Well, you see, I think that on the one hand, you do have to have a serious effort to reduce the flow, always keeping in mind that you'll never reduce it to nothing.
		And one of the things I learned when I was on the White House conference for Drug Free America chairing the international committee, we got lots of information, lots of testimony, all of which suggested two things.
		One, you can have an effective interdiction program that cuts the flow of drugs, but you can't cut it off.
		And two, the reason you can't cut it off is that demand creates its own supply.
		And you always have somebody to supply the drugs, and they'll find some way to get them in so long as you have demand.
		So you have to look at the demand side, and that, I think, has to be based on education.
		Not education, by the way, based on this notion of teaching people the danger of drugs and all of this.
		That has to be an element of it.
		But the key element needs to be, I think, the moral rearmament, particularly of our young people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How about enforcement?
		Most of our, the majority of our inmates in jail are in there on at least drug-related problems.
		Do you continue to arrest users?
		Do you go after the sellers?
unidentified		What?
		I think you have to do both, with a particular emphasis on going after the sellers and those who are profiteering from drug abuse, but you also can't let the users off the hook.
		I think a more effective way than maybe imprisonment and so forth for users would be to stigmatize and remove certain privileges.
		That would include things like driving and other things like that, so that you are disabling those who are disabling the society through drug abuse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		This is sort of the vision thing.
		I call it the quickening.
		I've been doing talk shows now for this one for over a decade.
		Events are accelerating.
		Political, economic, in every sector of society, they're accelerating, and I've been calling it the quickening.
		You're calling it a moral degeneration.
		You think they are the same things?
		Are they related?
unidentified		Well, yes and no.
		Sometimes I think we can be too impressed with how times have changed.
		I guess I believe that the more things change, the more they remain the same.
		And that in point of fact, we don't face a problem today that hasn't been with human beings since time immemorial.
		We are a society that has built wonderful computers, and yet we act as if we can't keep our children out of bed with each other.
		Yet this was a skill that even the most primitive society mastered several thousand years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ambassador, time may be immemorial, but I'm out of it.
		I'm out of it.
		We're out of it.
		And you have to get up early in the morning.
		Let's do it again, all right?
unidentified		Yes, indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ambassador Keyes, thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 19, 1995.
		Music by Ben Thede.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired July 19th, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Last hour, we interviewed Ambassador and Presidential Candidate Alan Keyes.
		And that took up the entire hour, and that wasn't enough time.
		I could have covered about 100 miles more territory with a man.
		Certainly an interesting individual.
		Hanging in, I would say, the second part of the pack, if you will, despite some polling information.
		Sort of in a category with, I think, Pat Buchanan.
		And I don't know even how to assess the race anymore.
		Is it different straw polls, different polling information tells us all kinds of things?
		Dole is up, Dole is down.
		Keys is up, Keys is down.
		Buchanan is hot and catching fire or not.
		I don't know that I know, and I guess there's just, we'll have to wait.
		We are again adding affiliates to the network, going to the 192 mark.
		There's going to be a big celebration when we hit 200 coming shortly, WAZL in Hazleton, Pennsylvania, and KIOV in Payette, Indiana, another station in Indiana.
		So those two stations on the way.
		192.
		So we're, you know, it's hard to say because it goes in big spurts, sort of.
		But it's possible, I suppose, that we're going to Hit 200 within the month, and we will use that as a mark to celebrate.
		There's no doubt about it.
		That's awfully big.
		I don't know how it got so big.
		I want to update you on the Roswell situation before we get into the news.
		And there is some updating to do.
		Boy, there's a couple interesting things.
		The Roswell film, the stills of what, or from that film, I've got a couple of comments, and then I've got some information from Congressman Schiff on this particular set of 16 millimeter films.
		Hi again, Art.
		Why did Congress really decide, let's see, no, wait a minute.
		That's one I want to hold.
		Here we go.
		I recently downloaded all five pictures of the alien bodies supposedly obtained from Roswell, New Mexico in 1947.
		And I've got to tell you, my first impression of the pictures really disturbed me.
		They seemed so real.
		They do seem so real.
		If the pictures are not authentic, then I think this is one of the best alien special effect models I've ever seen.
		But it appears the story of the film and pictures is beginning to get the attention of the network news services.
		I was watching KNXV, an ABC affiliate, Phoenix, Arizona, tonight, around 10.15 Phoenix time, when a segment of the news mentioned a congressman from New Mexico requesting the Air Force release films of the dissection of an alien body found in the wreckage of a crashed UFO in 1947.
		Supposedly, the Air Force reply was the films of the dissection were, quote, just an experiment gone wrong, end quote.
		I couldn't believe what I heard.
		Is the Air Force acknowledging something here?
		Maybe some listeners could confirm what I heard tonight.
		Wow.
		Next item.
		This is a newspaper article, I presume, from New Mexico, I think probably from New Mexico, written by Leslie Linthium, I believe it is, journal staff writer.
		It is either the scoop of the century or a very gruesome hoax.
		After watching a grainy 15-minute film purporting to show the autopsy of a space alien captured in the Roswell incident in 1947, U.S. Representative Stephen Schiff is unsure.
		The New Mexico Republican is not exactly endorsing the footage reportedly taken by a U.S. Army photographer on the Roswell Army airfield in 1947, but on the other hand, he's also not dismissing it as bunk either.
		He said, quote, there's one thing for sure.
		If this is a hoax, it certainly was elaborately done.
		It looked real to me.
		End quote.
		If the footage is verifiable, it would be the first-hard evidence that it was a UFO, not an Air Force experiment gone awry, as the government contends.
		And there's a lot more to the article, but the bottom line, obviously, to it is that Congressman Schiff is very interested in the film.
		Now, as you know, we interviewed Ray Santilli, the man who is in possession of that film, and in fact, then the next night repeated that interview.
		That was last night, now the night before.
		God, the days just run together.
		And I thought that he was, Mr. Santilli, that is, was very credible.
		Not because he's in the UFO community, and maybe because of that, but because he just ran into the film.
		He just ran into the film and he's dealing with it the way he does everything.
		That's his business.
		You know, he's in the business.
		And so somehow, his falling into it when he was in search of early film from Presley's career, I don't know, it just sort of makes sense.
		His attitude about it sort of makes sense to me.
		Now, I'm going to repeat this only once, maybe once more during the morning.
		There are two ways for you to see these photographs.
	The first way is if you own a computer and you know how to download, you can call our bulletin board, which is available 24 hours a day.
	There are five photographs entitled Roswell1.gif through five, and you can see them that way.
	Or they are now in the hands of our publishers of the newsletter.
	That's right, they've already got the photographs, and they're being set up, and they're going to be printed in our newsletter.
	Our newsletter is, many of you already get it, so you've got it made, is $29.95 for a full year.
	A full year.
	Comes to you every month without fail.
	It is getting to be a significant newsletter.
	We cover things on this program, things that we do on Dreamland.
	The whole spectrum is in the newsletter.
	Lots of photographs.
	We've gone to color.
	You're going to love it.
	Anyway, the Roswell photographs, by special permission from Ray Santilli, are going to be published in the next newsletter.
	And it's a go-under press.
	So if you order now, you will get that one.
	I'm telling you.
	I'm telling you.
	Jump on the newsletter now.
	If you don't have a computer, if you can't get them that way, then get them this way.
	back in a moment with the rest of the news.
unidentified		r Purr Well, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We touched on it with Ambassador and Presidential candidate Alan Keyes.
		Affirmative action.
		The president finally had his words to say on affirmative action.
		And while he says no quotas, no preferences for unqualified individuals and no reverse discrimination, at the same time, he seems to want to have it both ways.
		He said, quote, we should have a simple slogan, mend it, but don't end it, end quote.
		And a lot of us, and I agree with the ambassador here, don't understand how you keep it without having quotas, preferences, because that's the core of affirmative action.
		Anything you do, even a scholarship, which I do not object to, is in a sense, when given to a minority because of a perceived discrimination that has occurred, is a sort of a preference, isn't it?
		So the question is, what do we do?
		And Congressman Mfumi, who heads the black caucus, asked Senator Dole, Senator Graham, Governor Wilson, Mr. Buchanan, we challenge you and others as yet unnamed, thinking no doubt there'll be more candidates, to once again present improved alternatives, or I guess any alternatives, to fight discrimination.
		If not affirmative action, then what?
		Now, here's a fax on the subject from Ivan in Lincoln, Nebraska, who writes, Art, I heard the president today during his speech on affirmative action make a comment concerning the BATF officers present at the good old boys picnic.
		The comment was something to the effect that if there are any racists in government law enforcement, they should find work elsewhere.
		So let's see if I've got it right here.
		If you're a citizen and have white supremacist views or racist views, the government will come to your house and kill your wife and shoot your kid after killing your dog.
		But if you're in the government, you should find work elsewhere.
		Sounds awfully unfair to me.
		That's Ivan in Lincoln.
		Bosnia could not be worse, but it is by the day.
		The Serbs are rolling over everything in sight, the last being the so-called safe area.
		They've got to think of a new name for these areas.
		They're not really exactly safe areas, are they?
		They are numbered targets, and the last is Zepa, the second so-called safe haven to fall within the last two weeks, without, I might add, even a little bit of resistance from the UN.
		Bosnia, as NBC observed, is in free fall.
		Tens of thousands of more refugees are now on the move.
		Officials now admit they have no way to defend an even larger Muslim enclave, Grazhda.
		The flying in of European troops, this was an idea proffered by the French, I think, a couple of days ago.
		It's now out.
		They say too dangerous.
		Helicopters coming in, too dangerous.
		Sorry.
		The latest idea, yesterday's idea, well the day before, as you know, they talked about renewed airstrikes.
		They opted an ante yesterday and said, well, maybe what we'll do is threaten massive airstrikes if Garajda is attacked.
		It's tragic, and probably I shouldn't laugh, and I'm laughing not at the tragedy, which is awful.
		I'm laughing at the absolutely ridiculous, almost keystone cop-like response of the Clinton administration to this whole thing.
		Obviously, arm the Muslims, but even if it's getting late for that, I mean, it's almost over.
		Get the UN the hell out of there and then get out of the UN.
		That's what I would like to see happen.
		Susan Smith, trial, Union, South Carolina.
		A bombshell piece of testimony yesterday.
		The ex-boyfriend of Susan Smith was on the stand telling about their troubled love affair.
		And he said, this is Tom Finley, I think he's a 28-year-old, said, on the day of the murders, Susan Smith came to him and told him that she'd been having a sexual relationship with his father.
		Then later, and as a matter of fact, he thought at that point she was suicidal.
		Then later, she came back and told him, no, she made up that story.
		A week before the murders, he had written her a letter in which he had said in part, quote, they're saying to Susan, there are some things about you that aren't suited for me.
		I don't want to be responsible for anyone else's children, end quote.
		Now, if she is convicted, she, with a unanimous vote, faces the death penalty.
		And I've got the same question for you today I had yesterday.
		Susan Smith, you know, I think that anybody who would drown their own two children or kill their own children is arguably, either at the time of the crime or still, crazy as a loon.
		It was horrible.
		What happened was horrible.
		But you would have to be crazy to do that.
		I mean, you just have to be.
		And so do we in this country, should we in this country, execute crazy people?
unidentified		You think she was crazy when she committed those crimes?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think a lot of you are going to say yes.
		And so then the next question is, should we execute Crazy people in this country.
		The OJ trial.
		Now, there's some pretty interesting testimony occurring in the OJ trial.
		And yesterday, the tow tuck truck driver, you know, the guy who took the Bronco to the impound yard, had first said, actually the day before, he didn't see any blood.
		But then he got on the stand yesterday and said, well, you know, I wasn't wearing my glasses.
		And so, you know, I didn't see very well.
		And you've got to wonder, why is a tow truck driver out there without glasses?
		So it sort of took away from that testimony.
		And I was wondering, and still really am, why the defense has bothered to put on a case at all.
		There was some interesting testimony from a cameraman who has helped OJ by claiming or by adding to the claim that authorities framed him for the murder of his ex-wife and, of course, Ron Goldman.
		Willie Ford said that he saw no bloody socks when he filmed Simpson's bedroom room, and none could be seen in the videotape screened in court.
		Now that, ladies and gentlemen, is absolutely significant.
		Absolutely significant.
		Art, have seen the alien photos and caught the interview with the gentleman who is the rights to the film.
		Interesting that all the creatures were female.
		Maybe they heard we had freshly cut flowers here on Earth, huh?
		But that was 47, which brings me to this.
		After 48 years, are we any more prepared to meet our extraterrestrial neighbors or treat their remains with some respect?
		That's an interesting question.
		There is more news, but I guess I better get started on the phone lines.
		Well, Waco, I need to comment on Waco.
		We'll get it in.
		Let me open the phone lines.
		There's more, actually more than Waco.
		It's getting to the point where the amount of research I do, maybe I need to cut down.
		It seems like I come in prepared to do about two shows.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi.
		I got through.
		This is Miriana from Portland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Portland.
unidentified		Hi.
		I hope you've got my condolence card on Ghost.
		I was walking through my bookstore and I saw this beautiful Arizona landscape and I thought art has to have this.
		So I trust you and your wife enjoyed it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Also, in one of my letters, I suggested you go see Braveheart, and I hope you did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I have a copy of it, dear.
unidentified		Oh, great.
		Terrific.
		Odds and ends tonight.
		I won't talk about Bosnia because it's just too hard.
		But on the guest that you interviewed earlier in your program, on the drug question, he was absolutely right in terms of you need to deal with demand because supply is always going to find a way.
		So if you don't deal with demand, it doesn't matter how many fields in Colombia you bomb because it will always come up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that probably still should not stop you from pursuing both avenues.
unidentified		Well, that's true.
		But if you deal with demand, then supply will dry up economically.
		Newsweek did have a story about gangs in the military.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a little bit more.
		I know.
		I read it.
unidentified		It was really weird.
		I'm looking forward.
		If I dialed everything correctly, I signed up for your newsletter.
		I'm looking forward to the Roswell photos.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they're unbelievable.
unidentified		Someone called in the other night and said, you know, there was some flack about why were they all female?
unidentified		Well, even our own Air Force, I realize this is Earth, but they did studies on women would be better pilots because of coordination or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would we even assume that their sexual organs, whatever they might have or might not have, in fact, how do we even know they have them?
unidentified		Right, really.
unidentified		Well, someone called in and said, you know, that's a very important thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, our female, thank you.
		A female is our perception, right?
		We define that by the differences between men and women, human beings, right?
		But who is to say that a creature from anywhere else would be sexually defined in the same manner we are?
		That's very presumptuous.
		Yeah, one more time.
		You hear me on this.
		We're publishing the Roswell photos in our newsletter.
		You still have time to order our newsletter.
		We're doing stuff like this all the time, and I will continue to do it because you know I pursue things of this sort.
		So, if you want the newsletter, if you want the photographs, in this next newsletter, you need to get on the stick now.
		I'll be giving you the deadline.
		I got the photos to the publisher yesterday.
		The number to order, our newsletter is Art Bell After Dark.
		All right, I see I'm at the bottom of the hour.
		I'm out of time.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 19th, 1995.
		The End
		The End
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an on-to-presentation of Coast to Coast A.M. from July 19th, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, the following is from Chimbo In Sun Curry, Wisconsin, listening to WTDY Art.
		Good morning.
		Are you planning on having your bullet board system hooked up to the internet like TeleNet?
		The answer is yes.
		To go on, he says, I must say you are becoming very popular on the internet.
		For your listeners who use computers, I suggest visiting the IRC channel, PoundSignArt-Bell.
		The dash in the middle, I guess that's PoundSignArt-Bell.
		It's full of listeners right now from coast to coast and beyond.
		It's a sort of virtual reality feedback session about your show.
		Keep up the good work.
		OJ Guilty, go, Marsha, go.
		Susan Smith, Guilty.
		Execute, says Timbo up in Sun Prairie.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air first.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is The Economist in Monterey.
		Uh-huh.
		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing.
unidentified		Well, I heard about your little affirmative action problem there, and I've got a solution for you.
		My problem?
		Yeah, instead of throwing it out, why not mend it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the president's statement.
unidentified		Right, and I'm here to give you how to mend it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you mend it?
unidentified		Okay, so you have a quota for a government contract on a bid, and you pass by the first company, and it's the lowest bid, but it's the best price, and it's owned by a white person.
		Then you got the second bid, which the government accepts, and it's owned by a minority company.
		So there's the problem.
		You don't want to result in all this inefficiency, so you make the company who won the bid, the second lowest bidding price, reimburse the first company or compensate them for the amount that they would have had to spend extra.
		Do you understand what I'm saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where did you study economy?
unidentified		No, I'm just saying this in purely compensatory grounds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand, but I mean it seems so ridiculously complicated and socialist to me that I just can't figure out where you got such a thing.
unidentified		No, if one person is made worse off due to a policy goal that requires racial equality, Now, that's ridiculous.
		Right.
		In other words, why would you have a quota system unless you're going to compensate those who you're taking?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then to a lesser degree, everybody else who lost the bidding of all sorts of stripes and sexuality, why, they deserve some sort of compensation.
unidentified		But they couldn't bring the job in under the price, which results in efficiency.
		You don't want to sacrifice efficiency for racial equality, do you?
		And if you do, then you want to compensate those and make up for that loss of efficiency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, send that in a letter to the president.
		Actually, it sounds to me like something he'd like.
		I'm sure that'd sound good to him.
		Briefly, oh, God, that was incredible.
		On Waco, there was a lot of sound and fury and some substance yesterday in the hearings.
		I must say that I have been affected by what I heard yesterday.
		Now, you'll recall, and I've said a million times, that the children that came out of Waco alive, who were examined by psychiatrists and the whole battery of people they had to look at them, said that, no, they were not molested.
		They were not mistreated.
		But yesterday came a 14-year-old girl testifying that at 10, she was indeed sexually molested by David Koresh.
		Does this justify the raid and the manner of the raid and all the rest of it on the compound?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it give me pause for thought with regard to the way I've thought of Koresh?
		Yes, it does.
		A 10-year-old girl.
		A 10-year-old girl.
		What kind of religion demands a 10-year-old girl giving up her virginity to the leader?
		Wasn't he always reading from the Bible?
		Which Bible was that?
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		My mom said that she's sorry about your ghost, and it made her cry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Made me cry too, dear.
unidentified		Yeah, and also...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I haven't said anything about it in a while, but I've got something to say.
		It was very sad, but I'll tell you this.
		From terrible, even tragic things can come good things.
		And what the audience has done is a good thing.
		And we'll talk a little bit about that.
unidentified		And also, she was wondering, how is Shadow?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How is Shadow?
		Shadow, all right, listen on the air.
		Where are you, by the way?
unidentified		Sacramento.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sacramento.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old are you?
unidentified		13.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		13.
		you tell your mom i said hi and i'll tell both of you know about shadow i've never I went down on this tragic day when Ghost left, and for about an hour after the decision, terrible decision, I just, or I really didn't know what to think or do.
		And so I said, I'm going to go adopt a cat.
		And I went down to the animal shelter, and we looked at, I guess, hundreds of cats.
		Oh, man, there were cats everywhere.
		And I went through them all.
		There were many, many pitiful, beautiful, cute little cats.
		And we got to the final, I wanted to see every single one of them.
		We got to the final little shelter area packed full of cats.
		And here comes this little black imp of a sort of a waif of a cat, which immediately climbed up me.
		You know how cats do that.
		And nuzzled my neck and started licking my ear and climbed Right up on my shoulder.
		Never seen anything like it.
		Now, that hasn't changed.
		This is a cat that has an unnatural love of human beings.
		I've never seen anything like it.
		She is such a love bug that it's driving my other cat totally to distraction.
unidentified		And she's, you know, I've got a 17-pound cat, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Biggin.
		Really a big one.
		And this little gal, I don't think she could be more than like three pounds maybe at the most.
		She pushes my 17-pound cat around like he's so much like a dust bunny on the floor.
		You know, I mean, she just moves him around the house where she wants him.
		He's scared of her.
		I don't get it.
		So they're going through cat adjustment right now.
		But in answer to your question about Shadow, she's a human being lover.
		Boy, oh boy, oh boy, is she a lover.
		There was a story that ran that I've got to get out because it's just, it's too incredible.
		It was entitled Money Shot, and NBC ran it, and it's short and sweet.
		10 years ago.
		10 years ago, there was a lady golfer who was injured when, listen carefully, her own golf ball ricocheted off some train tracks and hit her in the face.
		Did her damage.
		Her own golf ball.
		So she turned around and sued the country club and won a $40,000 judgment.
		That was a decade ago.
		Today, well, now yesterday, in Maine, the Maine Supreme Court upheld the judgment.
		Now, of course, there's probably more to the story somehow, something there has to be that we haven't heard.
		But you fire a shot, it ricochets, comes back and hits you in the face, and you get to successfully sue the country club where it occurred.
		That's crazy.
		Now, there's got to be something, obviously, that I don't know about this case because it's crazy.
		How can that be?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
unidentified		This is Jerry from Minneapolis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, I wanted to comment on those Waco hearings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		No surprise there, I suppose.
		But I thought it was very inappropriate to have this poor little girl testify today.
		I did not think that was germane to what this hearing should be finding about, since there was no jurisdiction on the part of the federal government to pursue any of this line of questioning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think, nevertheless, though, Jerry, it had impact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It did on me.
unidentified		Oh, it had great impact.
unidentified		It was a great political game scored by the Democrats and showed the Republicans were not prepared to follow a line of questioning about Mr. Jewell, the father of this poor girl, who was in a severe custody battle with his wife and is associated with the Cult Awareness Network, which is famous for their brainwashing techniques.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And a lot of people suggest that cult awareness is the one that kind of got a BATF going on all this in the first place.
unidentified		Exactly what I'm saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But still, Jerry, it has modified my view of Quoresh, because my previous view of Quoresh definitely was colored by the questioning of the children who survived.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I thought, no, this guy has not been molesting children, but he was.
unidentified		Well, I never thought highly of Quresh at any time.
unidentified		It still does not justify an assault on the compound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it doesn't.
unidentified		And I do question total validity of her comments, that poor girl today, she may be being manipulated right now.
unidentified		And a lot of those graphic terms she was using, I think, were used to score political points more than anything else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, everything, Gary, is political.
unidentified		I have less doubts about how this thing is going to go along based on kind of what happened at the fireworks today.
unidentified		It's so highly charged, and to bring this poor girl out as your prima facie number one witness was, I think, really a pathetic ploy, and it showed the Republicans were not ready to deal with it because they wouldn't touch her with a 10-foot pole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, and I understand that.
		Thank you very much, Jerry.
		Of course, they couldn't, and I think he's right.
		I think they were indeed not prepared for it at all.
		In Los Angeles yesterday, actually there were two separate shooting incidents.
		One of them involved a gunman with a semi-automatic weapon.
		He decided he was working for the city of L.A. He walked into the municipal building and started shooting the people he worked with.
		He shot four of them dead.
		Police have got him.
		He's under arrest tonight.
		All of the people worked for the city.
		Now, this was almost also told in the news.
		It's getting to the point, that used to be a big story.
		You know, people would be shot.
		Somebody would go on a rampage, and there would be big gun control stories.
		There would be big arguments about gun control and all the rest of it.
		Now, it's just another shooting rampage story.
		You know, and it's kind of getting buried in the back of the news.
		I wonder if we're going to get to the point in America where, oh, somebody went on a rampage and killed a bunch of postal employees.
		It's just not news anymore.
		Maybe we're going to get to that point.
		Isn't that awful?
unidentified		Rawr Rawr Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		This is Dr. Bob.
unidentified		I'm going to talk a little bit about alien life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
unidentified		One of the things I do is molecular astrophysics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you say.
unidentified		I do this.
unidentified		Anyway, one of the interesting characteristics that we found in molecular clouds, we've actually found amino acids.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The building blocks of alien.
unidentified		That's right.
		Also, amino acids are very prevalent in the solar system.
		Well, people were concerned about the sex of aliens.
		It turns out that competitively, having sexes is a favorable ecological, or well, is a favorable, you know, for the species to evolve.
		Do you follow what I'm saying?
		Oh, yeah.
		So if the Roswell aliens did have a sex, it would not be surprising.
		It turns out that from what has been pieced together in the actual scientific journals and things about extraterrestrial life, is that there will be characteristics.
		And it will be probably carbon-based.
		And the reason for that is that carbon is produced in the supernova of stars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that right?
unidentified		That's right.
unidentified		So carbon is more abundant than any of the other elements, possibly like silicon, as was reported in a Scientific American article probably two decades ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		You know, I just, I have one question for you, and maybe you could try and answer it for me.
		I hear you go on other talk shows and take big-time shots at me for talking about subjects like this.
		You don't make those criticisms to my face or my ear directly.
		You know, face to face.
		Wait a minute, face-to-face.
		And yet you come on my program and that is your chosen topic.
		I, sir, think that is highly hypocritical.
unidentified		Can I respond?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, now go right ahead.
unidentified		Okay, I'll respond this way, because I think a lot of the evidence that you've presented has, you've not shown me any spectrums.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's your response.
		Haven't shown me any spectrums.
		I said I think that it is very highly hypocritical of you to go on other talk shows.
		And yes, I do listen to other talk radio.
		You know, I spend a lot of time with talk radio.
		So for you to go on another show and blast me, you know, in sort of that sickening little laugh that people attach to anything that approaches this kind of subject, and just and tell this other talk show host, well, thank God you don't talk about that kind of thing like that crazy bell or whatever it was you said.
		And then to come on this program and pick as your topic the precise thing that you criticized is about as hypocritical as a person can get.
		Have a good morning.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Now, I was thinking, you know, in the schools, if they would put in teaching like entrepreneurship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Put in hooked on phonics and beyond phonics so the kids come out learning.
unidentified		You know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		It would be great.
		And another thing, people can buy land, but then what happens when they come in and start the farming?
		If they run over a rat or they come up with this phony fairy shrimp, the fairy shrimp used to be sold in comic books as, what was the name of those little shrimp?
		Little monkeys?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Little shrimp.
unidentified		Sea monkeys or something?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whatever, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, and they found all over the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're not talking about the little seahorse things, are you?
unidentified		Yeah, they're fairy shrimp.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what a fairy shrimp are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I know about the rats and all the rest of it.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They go too far.
unidentified		I know.
		And another thing, you know, on the bait, on the David Koresh thing, they said they accused him of molesting children, right?
		But according to some of the people who were around, Kores says that is not true.
		Why don't they use the BTF to go in on Mambla?
		You see, David Koresh is politically correct, but Mambla is...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a good question.
unidentified		Yeah, MABLA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		North American Man-Boy Love Association.
unidentified		Yeah, why don't the BTF go on something like that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's a really good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't have a really good answer.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, by the way?
unidentified		Oh, San Francisco, Alice.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		San Francisco.
		All right, thank you.
		You know, he's got an awfully good point.
		I mean, NAMBLA is an organization devoted to, by its name tells it all, the North American Man-Boy Love Association.
		So I wonder if the BATF has investigated that.
		Rolled some tanks on their headquarters or something.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		How you doing?
		This is Bryce in Wichita.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Bryce.
unidentified		KFH.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		First of all, I wanted to express concern.
		I haven't heard Leonard call on any talk shows across the nation at all.
		I wonder if he's okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's unknown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
unidentified		You're obscure.
		I'm not sure what I'm doing, Leonard.
		He's ubiquitous.
		He used to be on everywhere.
		But anyway, I got a question for you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, if Leonard has died, you think he's up there?
unidentified		Yeah, I think he is.
		Leonard was always consistent.
		You know, Leonard never, you know, I kind of liked hearing him because he was always consistent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that Leonard was a compelled preacher?
unidentified		Oh, very much so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I wonder, do you think that somebody like that has a better chance of getting to heaven than somebody who is simply quietly devoted to their God?
unidentified		I have no idea on a question like that.
unidentified		Good afternoon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes?
unidentified		After Whitewater hearings are over and the Waco hearings are over and such, and they don't find anything, or they find a little bit, but it's no big deal, really.
		What are the conspiracy theorists going to do?
		Is it going to be a backlash then against the Republicans?
		I've already heard Mr. Nichols on Harder's show saying that Dole was in on the conspiracy now to keep Whitewater safe and shut, which is ludicrous, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I talked to Ambassador Alan Keyes last hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you hear that interview?
unidentified		No, I did not.
unidentified		Too bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I asked him, look, what if, let us imagine, there's something that's going to knock out President Clinton in Waco, in the Waco hearings or Whitewater.
		Would that be good or bad?
		And he admitted that would be bad because then the Democrats might actually put somebody up who could be electable.
		Right.
		So there's a lot of different ways to look at what's going on right now and what the Republicans would do if they actually came up with a smoking gun.
		It really is a very, very interesting question because remember, folks, politics rules, doesn't it?
		So if they had the smoking gun, ask yourself, what would they do with it?
unidentified		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 19, 1995.
		I'm about to lose control and I think I like it.
		I'm so excited and I just can't hide it.
		I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I want to.
		I know, I know, I know, I know.
		Thank you.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 19th, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's something, folks.
		The Roswell story is beginning to build, and I'm going to update you first on that.
		What we've done in the first two hours of the show is our number one was an interview with Ambassador and Presidential candidate Alan Keyes.
		We did a full hour with Alan Keyes.
		If you get a repeat of the program three hours from now, you'll get to hear that.
		If you missed it, I recommend hearing it.
		It was a good interview.
		We ran them through the paces.
		The Roswell story is growing, and there are a lot of stations joining us at this hour, and I've got some responsibility to update them.
		So I'm going to give you a very quick version.
		This facts I found fascinating.
		Hello, Art.
		I recently downloaded all five pictures of the alien body supposedly obtained from the Roswell, New Mexico crash in 1947.
		I've got to tell you, my first impression of the pictures really disturbed me.
		They seem so real.
		If these pictures are not authentic, then I think this is one of the best alien special effect models I've ever seen.
		But it appears the story of the films and pictures is beginning to get network news attention.
		I was watching KNXV, an ABC affiliate in Phoenix, tonight, around 10.15 Phoenix time, when a segment of the news mentioned a congressman from New Mexico requesting the Air Force release the films of the dissection of an alien body found in the wreckage of a crashed UFO in 1947.
		Supposedly, the Air Force reply was that the films of the dissection were just, quote, just an experiment gone wrong, end quote.
		Couldn't believe what I heard.
		Is the Air Force acknowledging something here?
		Maybe some listeners can confirm what I heard tonight.
		That's from Mel in Chandler, Arizona.
		And from the New Mexico newspaper, I believe, the following story on Congressman Schiff.
		Listen to this.
		It is either the scoop of the century or a very gruesome hoax.
		After watching a grainy 15-minute film purporting to show the autopsy of a space alien captured in Roswell in 1947, Steve Schiff is not sure.
		The New Mexico Republican is not exactly endorsing the footage reportedly taken by a U.S. Army photographer on the Roswell Army Airfield in 1947, on the other hand.
		He's not dismissing it as bunk either.
		He said, quote, there is one thing for sure.
		If this is a hoax, it was certainly elaborately done.
		It looked real to me.
		If the footage is verifiable, Schiff says it would be the first real evidence, hard evidence, of the man's contact with UFOs.
		So there you've got it.
		Congressman Schiff now beginning to get involved in this story as well.
		So it's growing, and the photographs are incredible, nothing short of incredible.
		There are two ways that I've been trying to get them to you.
		One is by computer.
		If you're a computer owner and you know how to download, you can get them from our bulletin board.
		They're on the internet as well.
		Our bulletin board number is area code 702-727-1709.
		We interviewed Ray Santilli.
		Hope you got to hear it.
		He gave us specific permission to publish the internet photographs, the five that we have, in the newsletter.
		They are now in the hands of the publisher, and the newsletter is getting ready to go to press.
		They are awesome photographs.
		If you don't have a computer and you want to see the photographs, having our newsletter is one way to see it.
		I'll be giving you the deadline, but it's coming up.
		In other words, you can order the newsletter now, subscribe for a year, and it's well worth the money.
		I mean, we cover everything on this program, Dreamland, the whole Shmere, with things just like this and have been doing it since we began the newsletter.
		There are interviews, there's just a raft of inside information about the network.
		Alan Corbett writes a monthly column on all the inside goodies going on.
		I write a monthly column or so.
		And on and on and on.
		The newsletter is $29.95.
		All five Roswell photographs are going to be in the next issue.
		If you order now.
		Bosnia is deteriorating quickly.
		Another safe zone has fallen, not confirmed by the UN, but they're saying they've got Zepa.
		There are tens of thousands more refugees on the move.
		The latest in a long string of ideas from the administration is when and if, I think it's when, the Serbs move on Garazda, we go in with heavy bombing from the air, really massive bombing and airstrikes.
		So that is but the latest as safe zones, which ought not be called safe zones.
		They ought to simply be assigned target numbers.
		And I'm sure they are by the Serbs.
	They're not safe at all.
	The president on affirmative action wants it both ways.
	Says there ought not be quotas, preferences, reverse discrimination, but at the same time says that why our slogan should be, well, what was it he said, we should have a simple slogan, mend it but don't end it.
	Well, how do you have affirmative action without having quotas, without having preferences?
	Affirmative action, by its very nature, has to have them or it is nothing.
	If you're not giving a preference based on a past discrimination of some kind, then what are you doing?
	So I don't know what the president meant, but people clapped.
	Waco.
	The hearings are going on.
	Now, I'm going to say this again.
	It was a brilliant move on the part of the government.
	But still, I thought it was true.
	Undeniably true.
	14-year-old girl got up on the stand yesterday, stand, well, she came to the hearings, and said when she was 10, Koresh had sex with her.
	Gave a very graphic description.
	And doesn't justify what they did to the children and the adults at Waco.
	But boy, I'll tell you what, it sure does color my impression of Koresh because I had recalled that Janet Reno said it was for the children that children had been molested.
	And then the children that came out and survived Waco and that were examined by a psychiatrist were said not to have been molested.
	And yet here was a young gal saying indeed she was at 10.
	So I wonder where in Koresh's religious philosophy it enabled him to have 10-year-olds and such.
	It colors my impression of Koresh.
	O.J. Simpson trial goes on and on and on and on.
	The tow truck driver who the day before said he'd towed the Bronco to the impound yard, didn't see any blood, yesterday got back up on the stand and said, well, I might not have seen it because I didn't have my glasses on.
	I don't see too well with my glasses.
	And I was sitting there thinking, well, then why is he tow truck?
	You know, what's he doing out there towing anyway?
	There was some good news for the defense yesterday.
	This is pretty serious.
	The police camera person who went to O.J. Simpson's house and took photographs never saw a bloody sock when he filmed in Simpson's bedroom.
	Never saw the sock.
	Moreover, when the camera panned in the area where the socks should have been, they weren't there.
	This bolsters Simpson's claims of being set up, doesn't it?
	So what do you think about that?
	L.A. A gunman with a semi-automatic weapon who worked for the city of L.A. Took a semi-automatic and killed four of his fellow workers yesterday.
	Police got him, though.
	He just went crazy and started killing a bunch of co-workers.
	Now, you know, my question is, do you realize how used to these stories we're beginning to get?
	It was one of the last stories NBC ran yesterday.
	And it's going to get to a point where people going on rampages with guns is not going to be big news anymore.
	It's just, you know, it's just going to be another guy goes on a rampage and kills co-workers story, and eventually it'll drop out of the news altogether.
	And at that point, I guess it has become a regular thing.
	Whitewater hearings also continuing to not much effect yet.
	So there's a lot in the news, and a lot I haven't covered, and I'll sort of drop a lot of the rest of it in as we continue this morning.
	Right now, back to the telephones.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		This is Travis calling from Bakersfield.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Travis, speak up good and loud for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not real strong.
unidentified		Yes, I'm calling from Bakersfeld on the mighty KNZR.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		A few days ago, you had talked about the gangs in the military.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And it sounded like you sound kind of chilled about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chilled about it is right.
		I was in the military.
		How a gang member could get through basic training in tech school and get on an aircraft carrier and start to stake out turf on an aircraft carrier is a little bit of a stretch, but I guess it's occurring.
unidentified		Yes, well, I've got a little bit more news for you that might kill you a little bit more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
unidentified		I knew about this 10 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You did?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How?
unidentified		I was in the military.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you saw gangs.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gang members.
unidentified		Gang activity on base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On base.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		This was in Long Beach.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		I don't know why I'm laughing.
		I mean, it's just so incredible.
		The bloods, the Crips in the Navy, the Marines.
		We got some Marine Crips, Dewey.
		I find that almost impossible to believe.
		I appreciate your call, and I guess I shouldn't doubt it, because God knows anything is possible these days.
		But I just, you know, I know about the Marine Corps, and it's just, it seems impossible to believe.
		I suppose it could occur maybe out at sea, maybe on an aircraft carrier.
		But even there, you know, even there, I can't imagine it.
		Gangs in the military.
		Gangs in the military.
		Well, at least they'll be trained well, huh?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
unidentified		This is Joe from Niles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Joe from Niles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's going on?
unidentified		Well, the reason why I called you, I heard the most disturbing news on the radio on the news break.
unidentified		You know, that Susan Smith trial?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		They wouldn't even show the pictures to the jury when they were taking the car out of the lake, and one of the little babies' hands was on the window.
		It made me sick.
		You know, the way I feel, they should give her the same kind of death.
		Death, put her in the back of the car, strap her in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Joe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that when she committed that crime, she was crazy?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then you are in favor of executing crazy people?
unidentified		Well, no, really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not?
unidentified		Well, yes, in a way, because...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can't be in a way with, Either you're going to strap her in, as you just said, and roll her into the river the way they were.
unidentified		That's the way they should.
		They should let it go.
		You know, my father was a police officer for 30 years back home in my hometown.
		And he said when anybody takes their own life or shoots somebody else, at the time they do it, they're crazy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		Well, you know, there is something to that.
		At that moment, whenever they pull the trigger, tighten the carotid artery, choke the life out of somebody, you know, roll them into the river or whatever, at that moment, they are crazy.
		And so I am asking and have been asking, should we, is temporary insanity, should temporary insanity, be a legal defense?
		Yes or no?
		You're saying really whether or not we ought to be executing crazy people.
		I mean, I think she probably was.
		At the moment she did that.
		I think she was nuttier than a fruitcake.
		And now, so how does that bear on what the punishment really ought to be?
unidentified		Burrish
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		West of the Rockies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, aren't you west of the Rockies?
unidentified		Yes, Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's west of the Rockies.
unidentified		Okay, I want to talk to you about grenades.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Grenades, all right?
unidentified		Yes, during the Waco hearings, it seems awfully convenient.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which category on grenades do you want?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		$100, $200, $500?
unidentified		I'll take grenades for $500.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Grenades for $500, all right?
unidentified		I think it was just a little too convenient that the package just happened to break open, and the United Parcel man just happened to call the ATF and let them know about the grenade package being supposedly delivered to the compound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But these, wait a minute now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These were not live grenades.
unidentified		are not a little case I don't think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got one of them myself.
unidentified		Yeah, according to that guy, he said he's never even heard of one as being a paperweight, which seemed kind of funny to me.
		But anyway, another thing I wanted to talk about, you had a poll, or someone had a poll that said 52% of the people don't trust the government.
		Yeah.
		I think that number should be a lot higher because the people doing the poll were probably paranoid in the first place and didn't really want to admit the truth.
		That's probably a lot higher.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're probably right, sir.
		Thank you.
		I do.
		Maybe it was once.
		It's got a hole drilled in the bottom of it.
		But it still looks to all the world like a real grenade.
		and i don't think there's anything wrong with grenade casings it's when they're filled with uh...
		I don't think you can.
		Sure you can't.
unidentified		I remember.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm hesitant to tell this story, but I will.
		Back in the days when I worked for KDWN in Las Vegas, one day I brought my grenade in, and they were doing a two-person talk show there, and I almost can't even remember who the two were.
		At any rate, I just slid the studio door open, and I rolled this grenade into the room.
		Kind of went tumbling over and over and came to rest on the floor right in front of the both of them.
		And it really did elicit quite a reaction.
		I really, of course, you don't play those kind of practical jokes anymore, but I did do that.
		And I've done actually worse.
		I have a sad, sick propensity for enjoying practical jokes.
		Though, believe me, I've had enough played on me, so there's been proper vengeance, I'm sure.
		I never, never will forget that.
		Actually, the expression on their faces, well, it just can't, there's not a word picture in radio that can convey it properly.
		But when you're a talk show host and you see a grenade Rolling across your floor, it was really pretty dirty tricky.
		Wildcard line, you are on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Charlie, liberal in California.
		Yay.
		First of all, I want to congratulate Bill Clinton on making the correct decision on affirmative action.
		Know there's a lot of idiots out there who don't realize that we still do need affirmative action.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then maybe you can explain what he didn't seem to be able to, Charles, and that is how do you say no quotas, no special privilege, but we're going to keep affirmative action.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is affirmative action, Charles?
unidentified		Because affirmative action is basically goals.
unidentified		They're not specific numbers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so I mean there are goals that may not be enforced in any way whatsoever, correct?
unidentified		Well, I think that's true to the extent.
		But I think here's what the problem is.
		There is still racism out there.
		The problem, Charles, is that the president's position means I don't understand that concept.
		I know that's over your head.
		I know that your basic concept of justice means just that, just us, just us right-wing white people.
		Really?
		But the bottom line is this.
		If there is racism out there, then certainly people who are applying for jobs, we certainly should be able to open some doors so those people can get through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do we do that?
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do we do that?
unidentified		I think we do that by keeping the doors of education open that Republicans, extremist Republicans like yourself, want to close by cutting education.
		And I think we do that by certainly opening some doors to some federal contracts.
		Again, wait a minute, wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But wait a minute now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a quota, if not a preference.
unidentified		I love it when you bring your voice up a few octaves, that means you're trying to make a weird conservative point.
unidentified		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean it's an untruth?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean that to give a preference is not to give a preference.
unidentified		Let me tell you something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Congratulations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're making every bit as much sense as the president did yesterday.
unidentified		Let me tell you something.
		There are thousands and thousands of companies out there.
		Most of them are white.
		There are very few minority companies.
		Certainly, we can open some doors for some minority companies, and we can say, hey, we have room for them.
		You know, I do not understand why you guys want absolutely everything in this country.
		Charlie?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Charles, do you hear that music?
unidentified		I got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have a break coming up.
		Now, I might be tempted to let you debate somebody on this because you're so obnoxiously...
		Hold on, hold on.
		Stay right where you are.
		Any intelligent folk who would like to debate the man who, like the president, makes no sense at all on this, come now.
		We'll do it after the break.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 19th, 1995.
		Goodbye.
		Thank you.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired July 19th, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At 192 affiliates, adding WAZL Hazleton, Pennsylvania, and KIOD in Payette, Indiana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, we're getting big.
unidentified		Fast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going over 200 soon, and we will party.
		At 200, we will party.
		All right, I said it was coming.
		It was inevitable.
		Here it is.
		Sir Charles the Ridiculous is prepared to defend the president's position on affirmative action.
		It's really interesting.
		I just don't understand how you have it without having it.
		But if ever there was a president adept at having his cake and eating it too, it is Bill Clinton.
		So let's, I can't remember who's where.
		Who's on this?
		Oh, I can tell you.
unidentified		Charlie, actually, your breathing gives you a chance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're a mouth breather.
		All right.
		Here's DJ in Phoenix.
		Subject affirmative action.
		And the president had to say about subject in general.
		DJ in Phoenix, meet Charles the Infamous.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		DJ, go right ahead.
unidentified		Well, good evening to you, Charlie, and I'll make you a deal right up front.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can't cut a deal like that.
unidentified		DJ's word is don't act like any names, and you won't have any problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		DJ, speak up good and loud, or you're going to get buried by this guy.
unidentified		Okay.
		All right.
		So why should we keep affirmative action, Charlie?
		We should keep affirmative action because we still need affirmative action.
		We still need protection for minority groups.
		We still have racism in this country.
		And the problem is that we don't know where that racism is.
		And when you have minorities generally having to go to the white power structure and ask them for jobs, we need to make sure that those people have equal ground to compete.
		And affirmative action is a way of doing that.
		Don't we have minority representation in the Congress?
		Don't we have minority representation in the Senate?
		You can say we have some minorities in the presidential cabinet.
		Actually, that's not as true as it used to be thanks to that Supreme Court rule.
		Let me make my point.
		You asked the question.
		The problem is that when a black person is going to qualify, say, as a police officer or a black company wants to get a certain contract, that company generally, or that black person generally has to go to a white person and ask that white person for a job.
		Now, if you're a white person.
		Let me make my point.
		If that white person happens to dislike black people, have a cousin who happened to be a buddy of his that he wants to push up a couple notches, and guess what?
		That minority person is not going to get that position.
		Well, guess what, Charlie?
		It happens to white people, too.
		It happens to Asian people.
		It happens to black people.
		Of course, it happens to people, and it's not.
		I'm not sure it's happened to you before.
		It's called nepotism.
		Whatever the hell it's called, we have to protect certain people in our society.
		Why do they deserve preferential treatment over anyone else?
		Are it created equal?
		This is what I don't understand about.
		According to the Constitution of the United States of America, all men are created equal regardless of their color.
		It's true.
		And everyone's preferential treatment to me why somebody needs preferential treatment.
		There happens to be something called bigotry that's always been there and it will always be there.
		People are wrong, whether they know it or not.
		And it doesn't make any difference.
		Less than it was, say, 30 years ago.
		You agree with that?
		There is a law against racism.
		If you don't think there's a law against race, I'll tell you what.
		You buy an apartment complex and write no Spix or Spaniards.
		Discrimination.
		And see how fast before you get your butt sued if you don't let a co-law against racism.
		Discrimination, Charlie.
		That's not racism.
		Discrimination is a result of racism.
		Racism is a thought.
		It is an idea.
		Once you start putting that idea into racism, you can only enforce laws against the results.
		People's opportunity.
		That's where I have a problem with it.
		And we have to do something about it.
		We cannot allow people, skilled people, not to get positions that they are generally qualified for.
		Why do we have to do anything about it?
		This is what I love about you right-wing knuckleheads.
		I love this part about when somebody else is being denied their rights, when somebody else can't get a job because of their color, all of a sudden you guys scream, oh, we shouldn't do anything about that.
		Because basically, your philosophy is this.
		I got, as long as I'm protected, as long as my rights are protected, I don't give a damn about the person who might be a couple notches down on the economic ladder, somebody else.
		I only care about my rights.
		Nobody promised everything would be Hunky Dory and Peachy King.
		No, no, no.
		The right to pursue happiness.
		No one guaranteed happiness because they guaranteed you the right to pursue it.
	And if you don't make it, they'll let you.
	I'll tell you what our society did promise.
	It did promise that you're not going to be denied a job because of the color of your skin.
	It is wrong in this society, and we still need to do something about it.
	You guys might want to turn your back on racism and let people be denied jobs because of the color of their skin, but we're not going to do it.
	We believe that everybody in society should have an opportunity, not just certain people.
	Then what about the people that do not get those jobs because of the color of their skin that happens to be opposite of that which is favored by affirmative action?
	What about those people?
	Why don't you name it?
	You want to champion rights?
	Champion their rights, too.
	All men are created equally.
	Why don't you name one segment in American society where the minorities outnumber the white people in that segment, and I'd be glad to address it.
	If you happens to be less than 50%, does not qualify them for a minority.
	If you look at every single law enforcement agency, and I've done this, and several people are going to be able to do it.
	And you'll find a person of color in every single one.
	If you've the majority of people at the power structure, most of the supervisors are white men.
	I took a fireman's test about four years ago.
	I didn't even talk to a black person.
	I wasn't interviewed by a black person.
	I didn't see a black person.
	Maybe you were there on the wrong day, Charlie.
	Did you go back and find out if there was anyone in that position that happened to be outsick that day?
	No, I'm on another side.
	No, I'm just dealing with something that you can't do.
	I'm just dealing with something that you conservatives don't know a damn thing about.
	The reality is this.
	White people generally control this society, which is fine.
	There's more white people than black people.
	It's fine.
	This is fine.
	Now, all of that is fine, is it?
	Having said that, having said that, a black person who is going out to get a job should not be in fear that he's not going to get that job because of the color of his skin.
	And why should a white person go out and be in fear that they are not going to get that job because of the color of their skin?
	Let me tell you.
	How do you care what the color of someone's skin is?
	That's not a good issue.
	That's good for you.
	Unfortunately, there are a lot of people.
	How do you know what society is?
	I don't give a damn what color your skin is, but unfortunately, there are a lot of people in society that do.
	That's what the problem is.
	As soon as we get rid of racism in society, we won't need to protect people on that level.
	You will never get rid of racism, Charlie, because racism is an idea.
	Well, then it's a problem.
	Unfortunately, all you need to do is try to educate.
	Fortunately, there is a lot of people.
	And the only thing that you are doing is digging your own affirmative action grave because you are really angering those racists out there that are not aware of the people who are in their heartcore.
	This is what I don't like about you conservatives.
	You're really angering those racists out there.
	I don't give a damn if I anger some damn racists out there.
	You hear me, racists out there?
	I could care less if you're angry at me.
	If you deny a person a job because of this color of their skin, you are wrong.
	And they're not going to agree on that.
	And as much as I hate to admit that I agree with you, Charlie, on that particular point, I do agree with you.
	However, under the eyes of the law, if you break the law, you go to jail.
	It doesn't matter what color your skin is.
	It doesn't matter what income level you have.
	It doesn't matter what your national origin is.
	It doesn't even matter what language you speak.
	You go to jail.
	That is injustice.
	That's the same thing in the workplace.
	It's supposed to be the same thing in the workplace.
	It should be the same thing.
	The problem in the workplace is that what happens is that when you have certain people who decide who gets those jobs, if we don't say that some people, because of the color of their skin, there should be some doors open to them, they're going to say, hey, you know what?
	Maybe my uncle Charlie should get that contract.
	He really needs it.
	And he doesn't hold it.
	You know something?
	I was living in the city and two black people mugged me the other day.
	So those black people can't be trusted, so maybe they shouldn't get a job.
	Now you know good and well because I'm white and I know that white people speak like that in private, don't they?
	Well, that certainly is the racist thing for you to say, Charlie.
	You know the white people, I happen to be white.
	My uncle says stuff like that.
	And I certainly, if he was trying to decide, if he had to decide between a black person getting a contract and a white person, he's going to pick a white person.
	He's the one hiring that person for his business, isn't he?
	Even if he's done it's a federal contract.
	Well, then you have to pay by the difference in the rules, don't you?
	Yes, you do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right, all right, all right.
		I'm getting into the middle of this now.
		Time's up.
		Thank you both very much.
		That was a good, spirited debate subject, subject of worth giving it a little bit of time.
		So I did.
		And you're welcome to comment on it.
		and we'll be back with more.
unidentified		crickets crickets Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now to another subject.
		You'll all recall the story of Ghost, my cat.
		Maybe you all don't recall it, but it was tragic, awful.
		I had a cat who some total jerk came whizzing by my house where we really don't have stray animals and threw it out of a moving car.
		And it took refuge under my home, crawled through a little block of cinder block hole.
		And it was kind of like a Roadrunner cartoon for days and days.
		I tried to catch this cat.
		I tried to trap it in various ways and means.
		A wonderful lady in Los Angeles sent me a have-a-heart trap.
		And finally, without going and describing all the pain I went through, I got Ghost and took Ghost the next day down to the vet to get shots and all that sort of thing so I could make Ghost a pet, give it a home.
		Turned out it had feline leukemia.
		As like one of the worst calls I ever got from anybody, Ghost had feline leukemia, and we had to put her down.
		God, it was sad.
		Just a cat, I know, but it was really sad.
		So then I went down to the animal shelter, adopted a cat, which I now have named Shadow.
		Shadow is the lover of the world, and she crawls up.
		That's how I found Shadow.
		She crawled up on me, all the way up me, nestled in my shoulder, and started licking my ear.
		And, you know, so it was like she chose me.
		It was an obvious choice, and it's worked out well.
		But the result, the end result of the whole thing was I said, look, if you've got a couple extra bucks, send them off to the Prump Animal Shelter.
		Because when I was down there, I saw these people were buried, you know.
		They had no more room for dogs and cats.
		We are the largest county in Nevada, second or third largest in the whole country.
		Big county.
		Big responsibility.
		A lot of animals.
		Not enough money.
		Not enough people to help.
		Not enough of anything.
		So I said, if you've got a couple bucks in Ghost Memory, send it off.
		This is one of the letters that arrived from those of you that sent in a couple of bucks.
		Dear friends at the Prompt Valley Animal Shelter, I am a white kitty with blue eyes.
		Someone dumped me out on the street a long time ago, and fortunately for me, a nice lady came by, picked me up, took me home with her.
		At first I was scared, but then I realized I was riding in a nice new Cadillac that was white and had blue leather seats.
		I knew right then that I had nothing to fear.
		I was absolutely stunning in that car.
		My adopting mother drove me to my new home, a rambling ranch-style house perched atop a hill, surrounded by about three acres of wonderful property of all kinds of grass, bushes, trees, pretty flowers, and my very own bubbling fountain in the front yard.
		This is now my territory to take care of, which I do religiously every day.
		It's a big job, but I manage it quite well with the help of my friends, the raccoons, foxes, possums, skunks, lizards, little garden snakes, and birds.
		Oh, lots of birds.
		When I get too hot, I scratch on the screen, and my mother lets me in where it's air-conditioned.
		If it's rainy or windy, or if I get cold, one scratch on the screen gets me inside where it's warm and dry.
		If I'm wet, I get a rub down with a big old fluffy towel.
		And of course, I've got my own private dining area where I'm never given anything except that which pleases my palate.
		My parents know I simply won't eat anything I don't like, so there's no need giving it to me.
		It took a long time to train them, but they've finally gotten the message.
		By the way, I sleep with them in their king-size bed, too.
		Got my own foam rubber pillow, which is placed right between theirs.
		They worry about me if I'm out at night.
		About once a year, I have to go get shots.
		I hate it when that happens.
		Oh well, that's life in the big city.
		I was listening to Art Bell tonight with my mother, and I heard about Ghost.
		It made me cry.
		The same fate could have happened to me.
		I asked my mother if we couldn't do something to help the other little animals and the nice people at Perump.
		She said she thought that's a good idea.
		So here's our check.
		I hope lots and lots of other people will send something in too.
		This could really be a great thing.
		Now I'm thinking that just maybe Little Ghost was not really an earth kitty at all.
		I'm thinking that just maybe Little Ghost was really an angel kitty.
		Put here just temporarily to perform a good deed that couldn't be accomplished any other way.
	Stop and think about it.
	If you were an angel kitty, where would you go to get the word out?
	Well, of course, you'd make a nuisance of yourself right under Art Bell's house.
	Stay under there being cute and clever.
	Just long enough to become famous all over the United States and have everybody all concerned about you.
	You just thought you put Ghost to sleep.
	No, no, no.
	Ghost had everything planned.
	She simply checked out.
	Said mission accomplished.
	She hasn't got the time to hang around there any longer.
	Other animal shelters need help too.
	She's somewhere else now, putting the same act on again and again.
	When she gets tired, she'll quit and let someone nice find her and take her home.
	Just like I did.
	I thought that was so touching that I thought it was worth reading on the air.
	And so there you have it.
	It's typical.
	Here's another one.
unidentified		Here's another one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very short.
		This is from a 92-year-old blind lady who only has $595 a month.
		She's a darling happy lady.
		She listens to radio all night.
		This pleases her and is like giving herself a birthday present.
		You might thank her on the radio.
		Thanks, Judy.
		So thank you.
		Thank you all.
		And I suppose one more time, I will give out the address of the Pahrump Animal Shelter.
		So, as I said, in the memory of this incredible, it was quite an odyssey, all right, but in the memory of this cat and for others, you might send them a couple bucks.
		I promise you this.
		They're going to build a new animal shelter area for cats.
		And I promise you, when it is built and it's about to begin, from what you have sent, I will take photographs of it and I will publish them for you.
		It is the Pahrump Animal Shelter, Post Office Box 460, 460.
		That's Post Office Box 460 in Pahrump.
		Do not laugh at the name of my town.
		I'm going to spell it for you.
		It's P-A-H-R-U-M-P.
		P-A-H-R-U-M-P, Nevada.
		Zip code 84041.
		I hope that's right.
		That was scratched out here.
		84041.
		So, one more time.
		Anybody who's willing.
		A couple bucks is just great.
		To the Pahrump Animal Shelter in memory of Ghost.
		Post Office Box 460, Pahrump, Nevada.
		P-A-H-R-U-M-P.
		Zip code, I think, 84041.
		And I'm going to check on that.
		If I've got to correct that zip code, it doesn't feel right.
		Maybe it is.
		But if I've got to correct that zip code, I will do so.
		And again, to all of you who donated and made possible what's about to happen, which is going to save many, many animals, from me, and I'm sure from Ghost.
		Thank you.
		We'll be right back with more from the high desert.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You'll listen to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 19, 1995.
		We'll be right back.
		Premier Radio Networks.
		Networks presents Art Bell Summer in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired July 19th, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm really stuck on this piece of music.
		This has happened to me with more Cusco.
		I hear it, then I hear it again, then about the third time, I get stuck.
		I love this.
		I absolutely love this piece of music.
		It's so different.
		It's so good for the soul.
		It's just good music.
		That nice.
		Anyway, welcome back.
		Final live hour.
		Then those radio stations that go on and take a repeat of the first portion of the show that many times has been missed will get a repeat of the interview with Ambassador Keyes, presidential candidate Alan Keyes.
		Very dynamic individual.
		And one station that is going to be carrying that, there's a big surprise.
		In fact, let me again repeat, KDXU.
		KDXU in St. George, Utah now carries the show, and they're doing it early.
		It was due to begin, we thought, around the 26th, but lo and behold, there we are.
		So let me hold open my toll-free line for about a half hour here, west of the Rockies, for people in or hearing St. George, Utah, 890 on the dial, 890.
		And so if you are one of the people hearing St. George, Utah on 890, brand new, I don't know, this morning.
		Maybe they were here yesterday.
		I don't know.
		Anyway, they're here.
		So if you're listening on KDXU, 890 on the dial from St. George, Utah, big signal.
		Give us a call at 1-800-618-8255.
		Everybody else, please hold off and let the listeners of KDXU get through.
		The number again, 1-800-618-8255.
		We'll find out when we came on there.
		Maybe it was, maybe it was just tonight.
		I mean, who knows?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Montana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Montana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
unidentified		And I believe in re-embodiment, in mercy, and justice.
		And I like to talk about the Smith murders.
		I think that in any case, anybody who's impaired by being insane on a permanent or temporary basis is still responsible for their actions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the argument, of course, are they?
unidentified		and well, they've...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever been crazy?
unidentified		Have I ever been crazy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Probably on another embodiment.
unidentified		I have been.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		no forget another body and some talk about this one as there ever been I mean utterly, totally out of damn control.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever been in that state?
unidentified		Out of control?
unidentified		No, not this embodiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I think most people have.
unidentified		You mean where you would actually not responsible for what you do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you're just nuts.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		I don't know what you've done when you were in that state, so it's a little hard to respond to your comment about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not asking, it's not a matter of what was done.
		It's a matter of that loss of control.
		I'm just asking you, have you ever been to that state, that kind of loss of total control?
		And you said no.
unidentified		No, no, that's not listening about him.
		I have.
		I've gotten really, really angry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		But look, I admitted, there have been a couple of times in my life I flat lost it.
		And so I'm thoughtful on the matter.
		In other words, because I can remember at those times, I probably could have killed.
		I probably could have done anything.
		I probably could have committed suicide.
		I lost it about twice.
		And I think it's happened to a lot of people.
unidentified		And so I agree.
unidentified		I think that has happened to a lot of people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that's not a defense.
unidentified		I don't think so.
		No.
		I think that when it comes down to the bottom line, you're responsible for your actions, even if you're permanently insane.
		And the reason I say that is because if you're really insane on a permanent or a temporary basis, you're still responsible for putting yourself in that situation.
		Now, I know people are going to argue, well, what if you were abused and so on and so on and so on?
		But perhaps people that were abused, in fact, were abusers and other embodiments, and that's their lesson learning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd rather talk about president embodiments.
unidentified		I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No problem.
unidentified		I can do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, then, by extension, you support execution of those people.
unidentified		Exactly.
unidentified		You know, the thing is, if you believe they have the opportunity to come back, that means they can come back with a clean slate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, we were going to stick thank you with this embodiment.
		Thank you.
		So maybe next time they'll be back.
		I don't care about next time or last time.
		Right now we're discussing this time, this body, this life.
		You know.
		West of the Rockies, actually on my KDXU line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Good evening.
		This is Big Daddy.
		I'm in Ivins, Utah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ivins, Utah?
unidentified		Yeah, right next to St. George.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, in that case, maybe you can tell me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When did we start showing up on 890?
unidentified		This is the first time I picked you up.
unidentified		I've been digging you out of the buzz out of San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So this is coming in a lot stronger, needless.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		KDXU is coming in well.
		I couldn't get you on K-Don very well.
		It was in and out from this location.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, KDXU.
		Listen, Utah is a very difficult area.
		We have an affiliate, of course, in Salt Lake and some others, but St. George was a big, old empty spot, and boy, does it get filled by KDXU.
unidentified		Say on the Waco testimony today, the young lady testimony was quite riveting.
unidentified		However, under what provision does alcohol, tobacco, and firearms have anything to do with sexual cases in the state?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, technically they don't.
		In fact, even the FBI wouldn't, unless a minor had been carried across state lines.
		The involvement of the BATF and the FBI and the military was justified by federal weapons alleged, I said alleged violations.
		It was justified by alleged drug activity.
		There was a report, accurate or not, of a methamphetamine lab possibly being there.
		I never saw any methamphetamine, did you?
		But that got the military involved.
		That's why you're able to go around Posse Comitatus and get the military involved.
		So there you go.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hello there.
		Hi.
		Hi.
unidentified		Is this Art?
		Yes.
		Okay.
		Hey, we're here in Carmel, California.
		This is George.
		Hi, George.
		Right next to Monterey, right on the coast, and I'm getting 890.
		Oh, you are?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then there's City.
unidentified		Oh, I don't know when it came on, but we're getting there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know when it came on either.
		I'm always surprised by these things.
		I mean, I knew it was coming like on the 26th that it was planned for, but we're there early.
unidentified		I've been listening to you for about seven or eight years, first time I called you.
unidentified		But here's something that you might want to think about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And that has to do with the militias that were organized in the wheat-growing country about 20 years ago when the sheriffs were trying to foreclose on homes.
		Yes, it was the standard middle-class guy raising a family trying to get his kids to college.
		Sure.
		And a lot of it happened because there was a Cold War with Russia.
		The federal government put up a lot of money to subsidize these people so that we could sell wheat to Russia to have them dependent upon this country for their food supply.
		And the consequence was that some of these people overspent, which is a normal human characteristic when you have good times and wheat went to $5 a bushel and no one ever thought it would ever go that high.
		And so when the subsidies were taken off, the heavy loans and mortgage against the farm tried to be foreclosed and the sheriff would come out to try to collect the property and all the farms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what was the result of this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, was there a gigantic clash?
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were farms protected from foreclosure by the militias?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did it all end up?
unidentified		Well, they tried to scare the sheriff off, and I can't give you the final detail, but I do know that that was an origin of some of the militias.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		Thank you.
		I'll tell you something else, too.
		There are areas now where militias are very predominant, where the sheriff and local law enforcement people are frightened to have to deliver some sort of legal paper, where, in fact, they will not.
		So that sort of begins to establish a kind of a what?
		Sort of a little areas of kingdoms within the country, little armed camps that actually are able to prevent what otherwise would be a legal service because everybody knows they've got a whole bunch of guns there and they're probably willing to use them.
		Sure, it'd probably cause anybody, sheriff or otherwise, to think twice, I would think.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Aud, how are you doing, Mr. JR from Chico, California?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chico, California?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's KPAY country.
unidentified		Yes, and I went over to the band for that radio station in Utah, and lo and behold, it was there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's kind of a minor cheat to do it that way, but it's, I believe, as we say, within the boundary of the law.
		Well, it's, yes, it is, but I'll say it's gray area.
		All right, so anyway, what's on your mind?
unidentified		I want to talk about this 14-year-old girl and her situation of making the accusation against David Grush.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, uh-huh.
unidentified		To my knowledge, and I'd like to put this out to you, there was absolutely no evidence that this ever happened, correct?
		In other words, they didn't have I.E. semen samples or pictures or that.
		Essentially, it's just her evidence, correct?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		We're entering into an area where if right now, if I said over the air, excuse me, Mr. Arpell, I'm bringing you to court because you sexually molested me, what weight would that have?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I doubt that it would get to court because in order to make that accusation, you would have to go to the police, then ultimately the district attorney, who would bring charges against me if there was sufficient evidence.
		If not, it would never get to court.
		So we're not discussing a court matter here.
unidentified		We bet, but somehow, because this girl is making an accusation, that's all it is, is now somehow it's validated that Koresh molested children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, only insofar as people are willing to believe what she said.
unidentified		Yeah, but I think you said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said, yes, I said that her testimony affected the way I thought about Koresh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it did.
unidentified		Well, see, that's exactly my point, is you have to have a discipline not to think like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you don't.
unidentified		Well, yes, you do.
unidentified		Well, no reason why.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you don't, though.
		Well, I'm allowed to think anything I want.
		I didn't say, I didn't come on there and say, David Koresh is obviously guilty of child molestation because of what she said.
		I never said that.
unidentified		You said that it influenced me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My opinion of David Koresh, that's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I stand by that.
unidentified		Exactly.
unidentified		And what I'm saying is, is that we have to be disciplined against that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, no, no, but, sir, no, we don't.
		And I don't want to listen to the reason.
		There is no reason.
		I'm allowed to think that.
		And I am thinking that.
		That doesn't mean that I think Koresh necessarily absolutely did it.
		Or, boy, did she ever convict him of child molestation.
		I didn't say that either.
		I said, I tended to believe what she said.
		Yeah, I think she was coached.
		But I think she was telling the truth.
		And so it, you know, that's just, I think.
		It's not he's convicted of.
		It's just, I was affected by that testimony.
		I admit it.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Kansas City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kansas City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I'm old Joe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Old Joe?
unidentified		And how old are you, Joe?
		Oh, God, my bones hurt.
		I'm old, but I'm just barely 59.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		59?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not old, Joe.
unidentified		I know.
unidentified		I'm going over the hump this fall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		anyway what's on your mind well uh...
unidentified		one of the main differences between the mexican population and the american population as far as formatting the revolution is concerned is that No.
unidentified		No?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds like an extension of my earlier call.
		And so the difference is...
		Well, that's true.
		And for that matter, the Mexicans are not really you.
		there's a lot of guns in Mexico, sir.
unidentified		I mean, All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
		Yeah, that's true.
		There's a lot of guns in Mexico.
		What do the people think there are no guns in Mexico?
		Wrong, no.
		Now, there are fewer guns to the north in Canada.
		I wouldn't say they've been exactly disarmed either, but it's pretty well along the way up there.
		That was a lot of guns in Mexico.
		Plenty of guns.
unidentified		Plenty of guns.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, are you still holding this for KDXU listeners?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
unidentified		I'm calling from near Santa Rosa, California, where you also have a station, but I was checking to pick it up, and sure enough, it's there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, thanks for the report.
		And if you have something quick to say, go ahead.
		But I was really kind of, I guess I was hoping to get mainly people up there in Utah hearing it for the first time.
		And, of course, there you are at one of our regular affiliates.
unidentified		Yeah, well, I pick you up on about 12 or 13 different stations from here.
		I have an old ATS-803 that hey, that's a great radio.
		Yeah, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, sir.
		Thank you very much.
		I appreciate the call.
		But that kind of escapes slightly the spirit of what I'm saying here.
		I'll do this till the bottom of the hour.
		Take people listening to KDXU, just sort of celebrating the fact that they're there.
		On my KDXU line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, turn your radio off.
unidentified		Oh, it's going off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Number one, turn the radio off.
unidentified		I just was listening to a conversation.
unidentified		I know you're trying to get Utah, but I just wanted to say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
		See?
		See, you're cheating.
		That's cheating.
		See, I'm holding a line open for KDXU.
		On my KDXU line, you're on the air.
		Are you there?
		No?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Sir, out of nigh, good morning.
unidentified		This is Sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		New Orleans, yes.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		Boy, Charlie Lilbert had me laughing earlier.
		I tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was a good one.
unidentified		Who was that guy in Phoenix?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		DJ.
unidentified		DJ, this is for you.
		I commend you.
		You were fantastic.
		You blew his fecal mallard out of the proverbial water.
		I mean, he reminded me of me.
		He spoke with fact, and Charlie, like all of them, don't want to be confused with fact or misled with the truth.
		They can holistic.
		Just can't handle it.
		And I've got a theory about Charlie.
		I think it's one of two.
		Either he's practicing for public office and he wants to get the liberal vote, of course, or he's a stealth conservative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A stealth conservative?
unidentified		Yes, he's playing that role.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see, in order to actually help the conservative cause.
		Don't think that hasn't occurred to me.
		But the trouble is, he does it too well.
unidentified		Yeah, you can tell it's filmed to the core.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's it.
		It really is to the core.
		All right, sir, thank you.
		No, I believe that.
		I used to think Charlie was actually trying to do damage to the Democrats with his rhetoric.
		And one might imagine that.
		But no, I'll tell you, it's the truth.
		He believes, incredibly as it may seem, what he mouths.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
unidentified		This is David Morting again.
		I was listening to Charlie's debate a little bit.
		He sounded like he was back in the 60s and 70s.
		I think they'll never get up to the 90s at all.
		I was talking to a young man.
		He was an entrepreneur, and he's a black American.
		And we talked about this affirmative action thing a little bit.
		He said it was good for the 60s and 70s, but now there's too many stuff in the books or on the law book to correct that if something does happen into that area.
		And that's what he was talking about.
		So the idea is now to focus on people that are handicapped or something like that.
		That's what it was originally for in the first place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		Thank you.
		No, it wasn't.
		It was originally to correct past discrimination, severe discrimination.
		And I think that affirmative action at one time was justified.
		I think that time is over.
		And I think the focus now should be clearly on equal rights and equal opportunity.
		And I can't recall who said it, but whoever he was, he was correct.
		I have no objection to laws that demand equal opportunity.
		Opportunity, chance, competitive fair ground.
		I support that sort of thing, but not preferential treatment.
		And I can't see how you can have your cake and eat it too unless you're Bill Clinton.
		In other words, we shouldn't have quotas, we shouldn't have preferences, but we should have affirmative action.
		That's a ridiculous statement on the face of it.
		Affirmative action is quotas and preference, or it is nothing but two words, affirmative action, and means nothing.
		So yeah, you're darn right.
		I enjoyed hearing Charlie wiggle.
		It was very, very entertaining.
		There's simply no case there.
		We're going to break here at the bottom of the hour.
		I want one more call from a listener to KDXU in St. George, Utah, which slipped in as an affiliate.
		890 on the dial, big signal on the West of the Rockies line, 1-800-618-8255.
unidentified		You're listening to Arch Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 19th, 1995.
		Make happen tonight, all of us think the panel is home and so We're going to have a black habit now.
		I'm going to be speaking to Warbell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an ongoing presentation of Coast to Coast Again from July 19th, 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		Openline Unscreen Talk Radio.
		This is it.
		From Britain in San Francisco, for what it's worth, I can hear St. George here in San Francisco.
		Congratulations.
		And yes, I've been so angry I've lost complete control, only for a few seconds at a time.
		But there is a state of being that is blinding.
		Fortunately, most of us can avoid that frame of mind for long periods of time.
		Apparently, Susan Smith cannot.
		It really is a very interesting topic.
		Here's my one more call from up in Utah.
		Where?
unidentified		Ivans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ivins, Utah.
		Listening to KDXU.
		Here you are.
		Welcome to the program.
unidentified		Oh, thank you.
unidentified		Glad I was able to get through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's because I held this line open.
		So you're the last one who's made it through without competition from the rest of the West.
		But I wanted to celebrate, you know, the new station.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
		Okay.
		Well, you have a good talk radio station going on.
		Your signal's loud and clear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'll bet it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're running 10,000 watts on 890, and that gets around.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, it sure does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you do for fun in Ivan's?
unidentified		Oh, for fun.
unidentified		Well, mostly some yard work once in a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yard work.
		Actually, you know, it's funny.
		As you get older, yard work actually does get to be fun.
		And that's how you know you're getting older, because when you were younger, oh man, we're talking serious drudgery here.
		I used to have a lawn so big, sir, and I had a good mower.
		I had a lawn so big that when I finished mowing it, it was time to start on the first piece again.
unidentified		There you go.
unidentified		Yeah, that's great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Endless lawn.
		All right, well, listen, thank you very much, and KDXU, for sending you along.
		I did.
		You know, that's horrible.
		I mean, it's horrible.
		A lawn so big that even going out and spending like an hour and a half, two hours a day doing nothing but cutting lawn, by the time you're done, it's time to start on the first thing again.
		So it's like a never-ending situation.
		I used to pray for cold weather.
		Anyway, Art just spent the last half hour trying to call.
		Lots of busies.
		Think I'd rather try my chances getting through this way on facts.
		Couple things.
		I listened with great interest the other night to the interview with Race and Tilly.
		I thought he was eminently credible.
		A breath of fresh air in the UFO biz.
		With regard to that, and also Mr. Hoagland, since there are so many conspiracy theorists and so many theories, I wonder how you sort through it all and decide what you think is credible.
		That's a really good question.
		I don't know.
		I sort through and try to find and present the most credible sounding things I can.
		As we explore these areas that are arguably a little different and a little abnormal, I try to find people in these areas that sound credible.
		Beyond that, how do you establish the credibility of somebody making claims that cannot be firmly established yet?
		You can't.
		So you just, you know, you sort through.
		That's all.
		Art, a question and a comment.
		And on to the meat of the facts here.
		A question.
		Why do we call tuna fish tuna fish?
		We all know that tuna is a fish.
		So why do we say it twice?
		We don't say we're going to have a steak cow for dinner or a chicken fowl, so why do we say tuna fish?
		I have no answer for that.
		And his comment.
		I think that all of the conspiracy theories are false.
		There is no trilateral commission.
		God never say that.
		There is no one world order.
		It's all bunk.
		In fact, I think that all the conspiracy theories is a conspiracy.
		God, I like that, sir.
		And I like your comment on tuna as well.
		And that comes from Rick in the Dallas, Oregon.
		I think it's the Dallas.
		Isn't that the way they say it?
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
		Hello.
		Greetings from Reno.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reno!
unidentified		Soon to be the home of the tallest structure in Nevada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The tallest structure in Nevada since when?
unidentified		That's the truth.
unidentified		You haven't heard of the Silver Legacy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Silver Legacy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean they're going to make it bigger than Stupek's Tower?
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then Stupek has got to keep building.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much bigger than Stupek's Tower is it going to be?
unidentified		I can't answer that.
unidentified		I don't really know how many classified.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably classified because they know that if they were to tell Stupek how big it's going to be, Stupek would go beg for a foot or two more.
unidentified		Right.
		Yeah.
		Say, listen, I haven't heard you make mention of any title suggestions for your book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know why?
		Because I don't want to get that started.
		I'll run one by you.
		All right?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That I thought of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think of the art of talk?
unidentified		That's great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just thank you.
		that's just I'm writing a book.
		I'm writing a book.
		They chased after me to write a book.
		So yeah, I'm doing it.
		And that's just one I thought of, the art of talk.
		But I don't know if it sufficiently says what it is.
		But I thought it fairly good, the art of talk.
		But see, I don't really want to get this started.
		That's why I'm not mentioning it.
		So try not to call me on the air with suggested titles for a book.
		Send it to me in the mail or fax it to me.
		Otherwise, we're going to get caught in that quagmire, and I'm never going to be able to get it stopped.
		Hello, Art.
		Loved the debate tonight.
		I will say this.
		Charlie made a very strong case for retaining the 15th Amendment, but I don't recall anybody trying to repeal that.
		If one were to apply the 15th Amendment in this argument, one would see that affirmative action is, by application of quotas and preferential treatments, unconstitutional.
		But then that's never bothered liberals before.
		That's from Kevin down in Phoenix.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
		Hello.
		I've been trying to get a hold of you for two weeks.
		Patience finally paid off.
		And I know you just got through.
		I just got through.
		Hear you saying you didn't want any suggestions for your book, but I've been trying to get through it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's like, see, now you started on the air, and you can't get it stopped.
unidentified		Inside the bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Inside the bell.
unidentified		And have a picture of a big bell like the Liberty Bell and have your body figure inside the bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you what.
		There's already an artist that we have who is going to do our book cover.
		And I'll tell you a little story about that.
		This artist used to live in Tennessee.
		And he sent me as a present a work of art that he did.
		I mean, it was really so very good.
		I framed it.
		It's been hanging on my wall in my living room for some time now.
		It was tremendous.
		I can't describe it.
		I wouldn't do it justice.
		But suffice to say, this man has now moved to Las Vegas.
		And we talked the other day, and I again thanked him for this wonderful work of art.
		He's a commercial artist.
		And I told him about the book, and I said, you know, would you like to design a cover for the book?
		And he said, well, heck yeah.
		So he's going to design the cover for the book.
		And that's how it's going to happen.
unidentified		Oh, can I say one more thing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		It's on your commercial on Cusco.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I had bought the One Record, Ferramac 2, for myself and my grandson for graduation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I wanted to get him both of them.
		So I called up to find out the price, and they said it was $29.95.
		Plus, they charge you for the shipping and handling, and that costs me more than it does to buy them here in Fresno.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For CDs, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're buying CDs.
unidentified		CDs, yeah.
		And I can get the CDs for $15.95 plus tax.
		And then when you, by the time you pay the shipping and handling for the pair off the special you're running, it costs more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that shouldn't be.
unidentified		I know.
unidentified		I wanted to let you know about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
unidentified		Because you said there was a tremendous savings, and there isn't.
unidentified		It costs you $2 more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe it depends on the store.
unidentified		Maybe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
unidentified		Okay, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See you later.
		I guess that's over an average.
		Maybe there are some people that cut rate everything.
		So that could be.
		Well, you know, do as you will.
		I think getting it directly from the record label is kind of nice.
		And I think that you can only go by averages, and I think when they say, in fact, they do say that in the ad, on average, over the stores.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yes, sir.
		I was wanting to know if I could come in on one thing about the O.J. Simpson trial.
		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Owensboro, Kentucky.
		Okay.
		The thing about it is that I had a problem with is when they had the videographer on there or the photographer on there shooting the camcorder.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		That was pretty late in the afternoon.
		And wouldn't you think Dennis Fung had done been through there and everything?
		Just one thing to bring up to the viewers and might want to think about it for a day before they start watching it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if it's the case, then the prosecution is going to have to go back and obviously introduce testimony to demonstrate why those socks weren't there.
unidentified		I personally believe the defense team is kind of getting slammed around, really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, you know, there's an argument that says they should never have even put on a defense, and they were ahead of the game when the prosecution got done and probably would have been guaranteed a locked-up jury.
		And there are those saying the defense is slowly harming themselves.
		Do you think they will put OJ on and would you if you were his attorney?
unidentified		Negative.
		I don't think he would.
		And also if I was his attorney, I wouldn't.
		Possibly incriminating himself.
		Of course, you said earlier, and I perfectly agree with you there on the fact that if OJ gets up there, he may be an actor and stuff, but when you get up there against Marcia Clark, she's one tough lady.
		Oh, man.
		Like your show?
		Keep it up to good work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		One Tough Lady is right.
		She is.
		You know, I've criticized Marcia Clark a lot because I think she has a propensity to whine, and I don't like her arguments made to Judge Ito.
		They're whiny.
		But when she gets on a witness, that is one wail of a woman.
		That came out well, actually.
		One wail of a woman.
		She really can go after somebody, a witness.
		She has a talent for that.
		She's in the right job.
		And it would be something to behold.
		Personally, I'm going to guess they are going to put him on the stand.
		I'll bet you.
		You know why?
		He wants to.
		He has told his attorneys that he wants to take the stand.
		Now, they can tell him no, but I don't think they can really tell him no.
		I mean, he's on trial for his life.
		If he wants to sit on that stand, ultimately, he will.
		That's my view.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Back to the topic of that 14-year-old girl at the Waco trial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I believe that your other caller, that her testimony was false.
unidentified		It was as though she was reading a well-typed script.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure, sir, she was coached for her testimony.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That does not necessarily make the story false because she was coached.
unidentified		She looked as though she was either bribed or threatened to give that testimony.
unidentified		Just watching her face and listening to her voice, it just did not look like it was something which had happened to her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a fair assessment in yours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if I agree with it.
unidentified		Thank you, Black.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, sir.
		And, you know, I don't know if I agree with that or not.
		It seems to me the probability of a little 14-year-old talking about a rape at 10.
		You know, I'm sure she was coached.
		Everybody who's going to give congressional testimony, nearly, is coached one way or the other about what to expect, how to approach it, and so forth and so on.
		And so would you be if you had to go testify in front of Congress.
		That doesn't make the story false, nor does it make it true.
		But while I watched it, it affected me.
		And it affected the way I think about Quresh.
		Because I'll say it again, previously, despite what Janet Renos had to say, the testimony really was that Janet Reno was full of it and there was not child molestation, that sort of thing going on.
		Well, maybe there was.
		And no matter how you look at it, you've got to admit they made some points.
		Not in justification of going in there with gas and killing everybody doesn't justify that, but it justifies concern, if true.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		Hello.
		Hey, is this Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm John Noble, Oklahoma, USA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excellent.
unidentified		Hey, how are you doing?
		Fine.
		I was stationed over Clark there.
		I knew you was over there.
		I was over there from 781 to 73.
		Wonder if you was there about that time period.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me see.
		Very close.
		Clark Air Base, yes.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, I was working on radios over there, and I was going to ask you if you remember the old R390.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you spend more time on Clark or in Angeles City?
unidentified		more time on Clark.
		Very few times than I ever...
		Yeah, I tripped in there a few times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'll tell you, that was an adventure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Deep DC.
unidentified		Boy.
		I remember there was one guy that got shot in a movie theater down there while I was there, an American.
		Yeah.
		And they were having all kinds of problems over there at that time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sir, there are always problems in the Philippines.
unidentified		Just wondering about all that, Art.
unidentified		This first time I tried to call you, I managed to get through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate the call, sir.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		R390?
		Yeah, of course I remembered the R390.
		Great receiver.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Dr. Democrat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Howdy.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		I did get your second photograph, Doc.
		It is going to be in the book.
unidentified		Oh, thank you.
unidentified		I imagine everybody will be impressed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, me too.
unidentified		But anyhow, on this affirmative action, let's get something straight right away.
		The Supreme Court did not abolish affirmative action, okay?
		What they did is said that quotas is wrong and senicides are wrong.
		They didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, and so Bill Clinton agrees with the Supreme Court, and that's exactly what his speech was about yesterday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bill Clinton is taking cover behind the Supreme Court, Doc.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why don't you tell it like it is?
unidentified		Well, he's sworn to uphold the law.
		And so there is a middle ground on affirmative action.
		It's not cut and dry, like you were saying.
		And the middle ground is this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes?
unidentified		That businesses should be encouraged, they should have the spirit, and they should have the goals to do what is right.
unidentified		And that is to hire some minorities that are qualified because otherwise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, Doc, you know what that is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the thousand points of light.
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's George Bush's thousand points of light.
unidentified		And even Jeke Gingrich yesterday said we better not move too fast on this.
		He knows what I know.
		If you divide this country, if you go back to all this race card stuff again, I don't know if we can survive it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, forever.
unidentified		Anyhow, before we go to the bottom of the business.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we cannot survive equal opportunity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I'm talking about people who are really emotional about this, the minorities.
		And just keep in mind that America is made up about one-third of America's population is minorities.
		And if you get one-third of the people angry at society, what's going to happen to our inner cities?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Burn us all.
unidentified		That's really the issue, believe me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying they'll burn our cities down.
unidentified		Republicans are trying to divide it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doc, thanks.
		Yeah, they'll burn her.
		Thousand points of affirmative action light.
		Yes, sir, Reeseir.
		If that's what he was calling for, then that's utterly legitimate.
		And I have no problem with it at all.
		But see, I was listening to him, and he seemed to be saying to me that he wanted to change affirmative action, not eliminate it, but change it.
		Now, if it's utterly voluntary, if a whole thing is voluntary, then we're talking about a thousand points of affirmative action light.
		And I have no problem with that at all.
		None whatsoever.
		But that just isn't what I heard our president say.
		And it seems to me that if you retain affirmative action, then you're saying there must be, because of the definition of it, there's got to be some Sort of preference given, some sort of a quota fulfilled, it inevitably, inexorably leads to that.
unidentified		It must lead to that.
unidentified		So, how do you have both?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you have both?
		No, I'm sorry, Doc.
		I just didn't hear it as a thousand points of light speech.
		I heard it as we shouldn't end it yet.
		I'm pretty sure that's what he said, Doc, actually.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going once, going twice, going three times, gone like the wind.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		This is Kathy again from Palm Desert.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm fine, Kathy.
unidentified		Great.
unidentified		Took me about three hours again to get through to you tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm glad you made it.
unidentified		Great.
unidentified		Listen, you caught my attention about, oh, what was it, about 40 minutes ago when you were talking to the trucker about some story about putting a, was it down a hole?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the microphone down the hole.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		What do you know about that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's somewhere between myth and truth.
		Maybe there's a germ of truth in it.
		The Associated Press did run the story.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And because I was doing talk radio the night it ran on AP.
		So I heard it.
		They claimed they lowered this microphone down to the ground, the deepest hole ever drilled, and they heard all this screaming and yelping and human agony and misery and thousands of voices in agony.
		And that's what I know.
unidentified		Wow.
unidentified		Well, you don't know where the hole was, where the place was?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was somewhere in Scandinavia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some Scandinavian Denmark or Sweden or somewhere in there.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
		Pretty interesting.
		You know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you had been the one listening to the headphones and you heard that, Kathy, would it change your life?
unidentified		Possibly.
		Very possibly.
		But I don't know.
		I mean, kind of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, Kath, we're out of time.
		Show's over.
		I got to go and all that.
		Tell America good night.
unidentified		Good night, America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, America.
		Thank you.
		Tomorrow night, same time, same station.

▲