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July 9, 1995 - Art Bell

01:45:22

Dreamland with Art Bell - Linda Moulton Howe - Alien Autopsy Film - Earthlight Theory - Greg Long

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33:39

greg long

36:26

linda moulton howe

09:32

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		This hour of Art Bell was recorded for rebroadcast at this time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please do not call.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped.
		And yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
		This is Dreamland.
unidentified		Good evening.
unidentified		It is Sunday evening, and this indeed is Dreamland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you're just tuning in for the first time, and many of you out there are as the network continues to grow at an accelerated pace, you're in for a real treat.
		This is a different kind of program.
		We do it once a week.
		We have a regular syndicated program, an all-night talk show, which I'm sure you'll get familiar with if you are not yet.
		But Dreamland occurs but once a week, Sunday evening.
		It examines, as the little billboard just said, two very important areas, two important questions for mankind.
		Whether there is another life following this one, and we follow all kinds of avenues in trying to answer that question.
		And whether we are being, have been, or will be visited from others.
		And we'll touch on just about all of it, one way or the other, I'm sure, this evening.
		First, way out in Seattle, Seattle, is Linda Howe.
		And Linda is at the MUFON convention, a big contab going on up in the Seattle area, obviously of the big people in the UFO world.
		And so since we have a reporter on the spot, that's where we'll go in just a moment.
		That will be first.
		Do you have scaling in your house, in your pipes, in your water heater, in everything you drink, in all of the water that you wash your clothes with, wash your car with?
		Do you have scaling in there?
		Well, it's easy to find out if you've got the guts to go check.
		All you've got to do is go take the aerator off your faucet and look in there and see if you see white, crusty stuff.
		Or for a real adventure, go ahead and look at the shower head and see if it's coated and clogged.
		Well, I had all that.
		Hello, Linda.
		Are you there, Linda?
		Oh, gee.
		Have we lost Linda?
		Let's try this again.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Linda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Linda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you are there.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we've never left the phone.
		Maybe there was a button on your end or something that didn't get pushed.
		Right here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, good.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am in Seattle.
		It has been an extraordinarily, I think, fruitful UFON conference, exploring both some of the more details of historic areas like the old Blue Book report up to the current day controversies around Roswell.
		And in between, I have received new reports about crop circle formations in the United States, in Inman, Kansas, and Alva, Oklahoma, and new mutilation reports from Maple Valley, Washington, and Kansas City, Missouri, which I'll be reporting on in future Dreamland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'm getting the sense, Linda, that we're in the middle of a serious UFO flap right now.
		I'm getting reports right and left, faxes, you name it.
		Before we go on, Linda, I've got to jump in.
		I said we're heard all over the place.
		We've got a new station this evening, I think number 128 for Dreamland.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is KSTP AM, Minneapolis, St. Paul, Minnesota, 50,000 watts, covering a good part of the central part of the country.
		So I wanted to get that.
		Thank you, Linda.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Right, and we also are sitting in a city where there's another 50,000 watt AM 1000 KOMO that's carrying Dreamland right now.
		And this is one of these areas where we're always getting reports from lights to abductions to animal mutilations to the possible Bigfoot screens that we were discussing a month ago.
		But this weekend, the subject that I think has captured everyone's imagination is what happened in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947.
		And is there a factual basis for looking at the film that's going to be released concerning the controversial Ray Santilli Merlin Productions purchased 16 millimeter film that we have discussed on Dreamland with everybody from Stanton Friedman to many others, including Dan Silver, who saw that London screening.
		With me right now is George Wingfield, who is from England, was here, and one hour ago presented to the 500 and some Bufon assembly approximately five black and white photographs of a being that is seen lying on some kind of a table.
		There is no hair.
		It is nude.
		The head is much larger in proportion to a human head, but many other parts of this torso are human-like.
		There are six distinct fingers on the hands, and there are six distinct toes on the foot.
		The eyes are larger.
		These appear to be photographs from the autopsy.
		Now, having set this up and that these black and white photos in the film are extremely controversial, I would like to now go to George Wingfield, who is with me right here and who talked with Ray Centille in London just last Tuesday about this film and what Race and Tilly is trying to do to prove whether or not it is actually film of an autopsy of a non-human being taken
		from somewhere in New Mexico in 47.
		And with me now is George Wingfield.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		George.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, George.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Where would you right now say is the very best argument for the veracity of this film, given the fact that Congressman Schiff and possibly other congressmen have been being shown this Ray Santilli film as recently as the last two weeks in Washington, D.C.?
unidentified		Well, there are several things about this film which are very curious to see, and we have to consider very carefully.
		When the autopsy sequence was screened on May 5th in London, Ray Fantilly invited one of England's leading pathologists to view this and give an opinion on what he saw.
		People have generated Ray Santilli and Deputy Charlotte Ford and everything else, but this only emerged later that he invited the pathologist along.
		And this doesn't strike me as being the action of a guilty man he's trying to put across the scalp.
		Now it's interesting to know what the pathologist actually thought of this autopsy sequence.
		First of all, he thought we're definitely dealing with a dead body here.
		We're not dealing with any kind of a plastic dummy or a cleverly contrived Hollywood dummy or something of this kind made to look like an alien.
		Now, although it has a lot of human characteristics, it also does look very peculiar, as Linda has just described.
		The figure is about five foot tall, which is not, you know, rather larger than we'd expect an alien grey to be, the traditional description.
		It has a large head, but it's not that large.
		It has very large eyes, which apparently had some kind of a dark membrane across them, which during the autopsy is scraped off into a bowl by the surgeon, who incidentally looks as if he's done this before.
		There are various other features, like the six fingers and the six toes on each hand and foot.
		It appears to be a female.
		There's no head hair or body hair at all.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And the reason it appears to be a female is that there is something that looks like a vaginal opening?
unidentified		That's correct.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May I ask a question to both or either one of you?
		Is it uncommon in human beings for there to be six fingers, six toes?
		Is that possible?
unidentified		It's possible.
		It's extremely rare.
		It's a condition known as, let me think, polydactylism or polydactyl.
		It's extremely rare, but apparently sometimes you get a gene which sets in.
		So in certain tribes in some remote part of, I don't know, South America or somewhere or other, you might find that this is much more common than it is in the world at large.
		I've never seen anyone with six fingers, but there was a Queen of England who had six fingers.
		That was Anne Boleyn, and she had six fingers on just one hand.
		But to have six fingers, six toes, all around, I think is extremely rare.
		And another thing about this is that apparently there are two autopsy sequences, and they show two similar but different creatures being autopsied.
		And again, the other one has six fingers, six toes, and is entirely similar to the first one, but clearly a different creature.
		So if this is a hoax or some completely fraudulent footage, where on earth have the perpetrators obtained these creatures?
		One suggestion, of course, is that maybe these are doctored corpses and somebody's maybe sewn on additional digits or altered the head by some kind of plastic surgery to look much larger than it should be, and that this is otherwise a normal human corpse.
		But the proposal just didn't think so.
		He saw no external signs of any doctoring of this kind.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And when you see a close-up on the foot, especially, it is definitely like looking at fully integrated foot, except there are six distinct tones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Linda, are these photographs of reasonable quality?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		They're very high quality, actually.
		George has two very good photographs that Ray Centille gave him of the foot and another of, I believe, it was the head.
		We also have what we were describing in the six photographs that were shown here at MUFON.
		They were actually taken from apparently documentary footage that's being prepared by M4 in England, right?
		Channel 4.
		Yes, M4, Channel 4 in England for release, I believe, in August.
		And this was a trailer for this upcoming film.
		And some enterprising person videotaped and then put out in the computer scanned images, and that was part of what you were showing today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		It's beginning to sound a little exciting.
		Linda, I know you.
		we've talked to you now for years and I would like you to now break out a little bit and give me I haven't.
		What is your assessment?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, I am puzzled because as George said, I don't have the feeling that I'm looking at a mannequin.
		It does have the, whatever one has, an intuitive sense of looking at something in photographs as we humans are used to looking at things.
		It does have at least that intuitive sense of some kind of an actual body.
		What I think I am especially struck by, my very first reaction was, this, whatever it is, this humanoid, does not look like a single drawing, a single description from the abduction literature, from so-called military and intelligence civilian weeks,
		the descriptions that have ranged from the small greys with the thin, long arms to the taller grays, to the so-called reptilian insect, tall humanoids that have hair or don't have hair.
		This is different, and yet the eyes, George saw clearly in the film in London that the surgeon lifted away from the two eyes a dark membrane.
		And those eyes are very large, and they would be considered to be a solid, black, very large eye if you encountered them with the membrane.
		One interesting point, and George, you should address this.
		If I understand it, the surgeon seemed to lift out this membrane with such swiftness that it almost implied the surgeon may have already known that this was something that could be lifted off.
unidentified		It looked to me, he did it each eyeball a swift flick, and he'd removed that membrane, which filled up into a dish of fluid.
		It looked to me as if he'd been doing this before.
		And of course, there were no false moves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's no way to know that this was the first, second, third, or fourth alien body they might have autopsied.
unidentified		Oh, that's up to you.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Exactly, Art.
		And one of the things that keeps coming to me is the information of a variety that suggests that there were many other crashes that our government had been dealing with prior to 1947.
		That for some reason, someone somewhere seems to be trying to draw the line at 1947, even though there's an increasing amount of information that things were happening before July, at least.
		And in this film, George, isn't it true that the date for this particular autopsy seems to relate to a being that was taken somewhere in June, not July?
unidentified		Well, apparently, according to the, I can give you the whole story behind the film and where it purportedly came from.
		And the man who entered Mr. Santilli is still in contact and has met on many occasions the cameraman who allegedly took this footage in New Mexico in 1947.
		And the story is similar to the Roswell story that we know, but it's different in several respects.
		Just go back one moment to the corpse during the autopsy.
		I have a line here from the pathologist's report saying that what appeared to be the membranes covering the brain were shown being cut and the brain being removed.
		However, the appearances were not those of a human brain.
		This is England's leading pathologist to speak.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And the color of the mask taken from the skull appeared very dark on the film, where human brain tissue would appear white.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gee, we seem to go up and down and up and down on this thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First, people seem to be leaning toward it as a fraud, but after listening to the two of you this evening, it sounds like, well, it sounds like...
unidentified		Yes, I can't say for certain that this is genuine, but when I first saw it, I was extremely skeptical, and I had all sorts of objections and misgivings about its origins and about Mr. Santilli himself, his company, his motives, this, that, and the other.
unidentified		Several possible amachems in the film, like the phone hanging on the wall, I thought was probably not available in the 1940s.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		The curly phone cord.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any more news on that?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is definitely consistent with what military had available in the 40s.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Curly phone cords were used.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, that removes one large one.
		Plus, we've got to imagine that it could be authentic film, and Mr. Sandilli could be playing it for all it's worth.
		And frankly, an awful lot of people, if they had their hands on that film, would play it for all it's worth.
		So that doesn't surprise me.
unidentified		No.
		Well, he certainly has played it for all its worth.
		I mean, he's got deals going now with Channel 4 Television in Britain.
		And he's going to be showing a documentary which includes much of the footage in Britain and France, Germany, and Italy.
		And I think he's quite pleased.
		He is in quite a good position financially now as regards what he played out initially on the film, which is reported to have been $100,000.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		But at the same time, he is approaching experts to get their verification about some things on this film.
unidentified		He's certainly approaching experts.
		I mean, he doesn't seem to be afraid of the experts.
		He says, okay, I can't be 100% certain it's genuine, but I'm going to put it in front of the appropriate experts who can authenticate it and to verify that we are dealing with the right thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, the big question, what about those photographs?
		Are they proprietary?
		Is there a chance you could get them to us?
		Could they appear on the Internet?
		Is there any way people can see them?
unidentified		Well, they are, in fact, on the Internet, and I'm not quite sure.
		Nothing very expert in these things.
		I'm not quite sure whereabouts on the Internet they are.
		But I'm not sure that Fox haven't purchased copies of these five still.
		And they probably have a page on the World Wide Web somewhere that is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good enough.
		You two, hold on just a moment.
		I'll be right back to you.
		We all know that information is what it's all about.
		And for those of you who like looking over the edge, well, I've got some really hot news for you.
		It's called UFOFAC's World Report, and it's a hot monthly newsletter packed with just the kind of information you've been looking for.
		The latest hard data on UFO sightings, encounters, abductions, and more.
		Gleaning information from around the country and around the world, UFOFAC's newsletters put together by a staff of professional journalists.
		It's an easy ad to do, North American Trading.
		1-800-877-9799, North American Trading.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got a moment just before the bottom of the hour, and rather than go back to Seattle, I'll hold them through the break, and we'll go back to them and wrap this up.
		Let me take just one moment to again welcome our brand new affiliate, JSTP AM in Minneapolis, St. Paul, Minnesota.
		50,000 big wants on 1,500.
		Now, also, we've got a bulletin board service up, and I wanted to let you know that we've got a lot of new stuff this weekend on the bulletin board.
		A lot of new goodies.
		So if you'd like to call our bulletin board, here is the number.
		Area code 702-727-1709.
		Once again, the bulletin board service with all the materials from Dreamland and Coast at 1 Area Code 702-727-1709.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		This hour of Art Bell was recorded for rebroadcast at this time.
		Please do not call.
		Oh.
		Call Art Bell.
		Toll free.
		West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back, everybody.
		It's a dreamland.
		I am Art Bell.
		We'll get to the poem shortly.
unidentified		I think you ought to know who you're listening to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Those of you who are new to the program.
		Linda Howe, worldwide, is, I think, generally acknowledged to be the world's expert on crop circles and animal mutilations and things of that sort.
		And toward that end, just before we go back to her, she has a lot of materials available.
		So listen to this about Linda Howe.
unidentified		If you enjoy Dreamland's weekly news segments by Linda Moulton Howe, which features updates about mysterious phenomena, then you might want to know more about her books and documentaries.
		Linda Howe is an Emmy Award-winning television producer, writer, and researcher of Earth mysteries linked to non-human intelligences.
		Her books and videos provide scientific data and first-hand eyewitnesses.
		Linda Moulton Howe's two books, An Alien Harvest and Glimpses of Other Realities, are acclaimed for their quality, depth, photographs, and drawings.
		If you are interested in learning more about the mysterious animal mutilations, crop circles, UFO sightings, the human abduction syndrome, and government knowledge about these worldwide phenomena, you will enjoy these books and videos available directly from LMH Productions.
		You can dial 1-800-707-9993 to order.
		That's 1-800-707-9993.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And now back to the lady herself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lindy, you there?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am, Mark.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Can you hear us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hear you just fine.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, one of the things I think that George Wingfield and I would like to let the Dreamland, the viewers know is that there is always a distinct possibility that the film and the photographs are a desperate effort on somebody's part to dispredit Roswell.
		That's always been a possibility, and we've talked about that on Dreamland, and we have talked about the issue of why is it that anyone working for the United States government in 1947 on something as sensitive as an autopsy of a non-human being taken out of an unknown craft from someplace else in the universe, why would they ever be allowed to have any copies of any film?
		George Wingfield, who is with me, has talked with Ray Santelli, who purchased this film, about the photographer, and I think it's worth our hearing some comments.
		George?
unidentified		Yeah, the photographer, the cameraman who took this footage back in 1947, supposedly, is absolutely key to this.
		And of course, he hasn't come forward into public view.
		We have an idea of what he's called, but I won't give a name.
		We know that he's roughly 80 years old, and he lives in the United States.
		And two years ago, he wanted to raise some money, and he offered this film to Mr. Santilli.
		The circumstances were rather peculiar.
		Santilli was in the States trying to purchase early footage of Elvis Presley film, which he succeeded in doing from the very same man.
		And this is the story we've heard.
		There's a lot of verification is needed here.
		This is all very recent, and I haven't even seen the Elvis footage, but I'm assured that that was purchased, and that is included in some segment of some video or something which they've put out.
		Okay, so the cameraman, having sold the Elvis footage, which must be from about 1960, I would imagine, calls up Santilli, who's still staying in his hotel near the airport, wherever this is, and says, I've got something else which might interest you.
		And he shows this footage, this 9.7 footage, to Santilli, who is apparently amazed and says, well, what is all this about?
		I simply don't understand.
		Because Santilli's not a person who knows anything about UFOs or Brothers or anything.
		And when it gradually dawns on him that there is something about it here, this is what he tells us, he determines he'll try to buy it.
		But negotiations take quite a time, over a year, and he hasn't got the money and he has to borrow money from a colleague.
		And eventually this leads up to the purchase in last November of the footage.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And George, isn't it the photographer, explained to Centilli that he had only distant pieces that he had not given over to the military because he did not think the quality was high enough?
unidentified		That's correct.
		The cameraman says that he worked for the military in the 1940s.
		And in June of 1947, this is a month earlier than is generally supposed, he was called, he was sent from Washington, D.C. down to Roswell to take part in a clear-up operation, which was to clear up the debris of the crashed flying disc.
		And also, this involved, he didn't know at the time, it involved the recovery of alien bodies, which were subsequently autopsied in a military hospital in Dallas, Texas.
		And he took several hours of film footage.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		16 millimeter film.
unidentified		It was a 16 millimeter film.
		He took probably five or six hours.
		And most of it he developed himself and submitted To his superiors, which is what they wanted.
		And they got they wanted, but there's quite a lot of footage left behind at the end of it.
		In fact, about 90 minutes worth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then this footage that we now have is what was left over rather than extra copies that he made?
unidentified		That is what I understand.
		I hope I have that correct.
		I mean, I'm working on this the whole time, and I'm trying to make sure that the story I'm being told is consistent, and wherever I can, I'm trying to check what I'm told, or cross-check it with other people, and cross-check it in some way.
		It's not always very easy, especially if I don't have access.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, I want to ask the both of you a question now.
		Obviously, these photographs have probably made the round at the MUFON conference up there, and there are a lot of experts.
		What is the general reception by others at MUFON?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Very confused and puzzled.
		I would say that everyone from Michael Swords to others who either share a medical background or an academic background, at least in the conversations with me, they have universally said this is extremely puzzling.
		If this was to be a so-called hoax, why would the body that is being autopsied match what we've all been conditioned to see over the last 20 years, these gray skin-arm things?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Why is it that this first release of something that purports to be 16-millimeter film and photographs of a non-human being from a crash disk in retrieval somewhere in the summer of 47, in this case it seems to be June, not July, why would it not look like anything that anybody else has ever described?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		This is very, very puzzling if it is even supposed to be a hoax.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've got to go, but I want to thank both of you for the update.
		And without having been at MoofOn, you have given us the best word picture we could possibly have obtained.
		Thank you.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's definitely the conversation we left, a panel discussion in which a whole bunch of us were in discussions, and we carried it right on into Dreamland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excellent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Linda, thank you next week back home.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'll be back in Philadelphia with a very interesting update on that Bigfoot screen story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm looking forward to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, I want to hear it again.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		All right, I will play it again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you both, and good night.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, there you've got it.
		There is the update from the big MOFON conference going on up in Seattle, armed with new footage.
		Now, listen, all you web crawlers out there, if somebody manages to get any of these photographs on the web, do one of two things, please.
		Either upload them to our bulletin board system or send them to me.
		My email address, you can attach them to email and I'll get them to the board.
		My email address is artbell at aol.com.
		That's artbell at aol.com.
		Put no space between the art and the bell if you're elsewhere on the network rather than on AOL.
		All right, in a moment, Greg Long.
		Now, here's a man who has investigated, researched, and written about the UFO phenomenon for 19 years.
		He is, in fact, a field investigator for the Mutual UFO Network, or MOVON, and the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies.
		Like many people of his generation, he grew up with the subject of UFOs throughout the 50s, 60s.
		UFOs were a regular staple of newspaper, TV, and radio accounts.
		Frequently joked about.
		Disappointed with the outcome of the Condon Committee's study of UFOs at the University of Boulder, Colorado in 1969, the UFO subject faded from his mind until 1975.
		Coming back from overseas after about two years, Long discovered there was a major flap of UFO sightings that had occurred while he was gone.
		So, renewed interest, Long began investigating and researching UFOs in earnest.
		In 1980, he interviewed Kenneth Arnold in Boise, Idaho.
		Arnold's sighting of nine UFOs over the Cascades in Washington state on June 24th, 1947, was the seminal event that ushered in the modern era of UFO sightings.
		Shortly thereafter, long focused on 20 years of documented UFO sightings, and on, and we'll hear a lot about this, the Yakima Indian Reservation in Washington State.
		In 1990, the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies published Long's study of those sightings.
		The book is examining the Earth Light Theory.
		The Yakima UFO microcosm presents and analyzes nearly 200 UFO reports and accounts substantiated by photography and multiple witness observation.
		And by the way, in his book, he's got quite a number of these photographs of what appear to be orange balls of light.
		I guess that's the only way I can put it.
		Accompanied, by the way, by sounds, which we have a short recording of.
		I think you're going to find that fascinating.
		And also, there is a relationship to earthquakes.
		All of that and more with Greg Wong from, I believe, up in Oregon in just a moment.
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		Let's find out where in Oregon Greg is.
		Greg, welcome to Dreamland.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Daniart.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Glad to hear your voice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good to be here.
		Still, I check on a daily basis, but I seem to still be here.
		Greg, you have been researching primarily in one area, haven't you?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it involves, when you say orange UFOs, is one way you put it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are they orange craft, do you believe, or orange balls of light or energy, or what do you think it is you're studying?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, the way to answer that question is to step back and look at the history of UFO sightings in the modern era and look at the amount of data that's been gathered over this near 50-year period.
		You know, currently the Center for UFO Studies has over 200,000 reports.
		The Muthon UFO network has likely as many.
		And, of course, private investigators have their own files, and we have files of information in other countries.
		There is a massive body of data to be analyzed.
		And the UFO subject is really very complex and varied.
		And if you look at the data, just doing a broad survey, you'll notice that we have different shapes of objects.
		Not only objects that are lights, but objects that look like craft, if you will, or technological machines.
		What I'm interested in doing is taking one portion of this data and trying to find an answer to what that particular object might be.
		And in the body of literature, there is a consistent pattern of observations and reports and photographs of an object that is described as a sphere or a ball of light.
		And I was very much attracted to pursuing this line of inquiry because of a number of sightings that I was aware of on the Yakima Indian Reservation.
		And the Indian Reservation is located just to the east of the Cascade Mountains, actually at the foothills of the Cascade Mountains.
		And it was over those mountains that Kenneth Arnold did observe nine objects on June 24th, 1947.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kenneth Arnold was a pilot?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		He was a pilot.
		He was a private businessman that did his business by air.
		He was selling and installing firefighting equipment in the Pacific Northwest.
		And on this particular day, he was interested in trying to find a downed military transport plane, a C-47, that had crashed there on Mount Lanier.
		And on this particular day, he was looking for it.
		There was a reward.
		I think it was a $500 reward.
		And he happened to see these nine objects.
		Of course, at that time, people did not have any concept of what flying saucers, as they were then soon called, were.
		But he went ahead and reported what he saw as a patriotic American.
		And, of course, this created a tremendous sensation across the country and the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, bear in mind, everybody, this is 1947, right?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		This predates the Roswell events by several weeks.
		But this area of the country, the Pacific Northwest, is very interesting because not only of Kenneth Arnold's sighting, but because of a tremendous wave of sightings that occurred during that time period over the next 46 weeks.
		Hundreds and hundreds of sightings occurred up in this area and were documented very carefully by Ted Bloker in a book called the UFO Report of 1947.
		But at the foothills of the Cascades, there is the Yakima Indian Reservation.
		It's over a million acres of land, which are held by the Yakimas and the Clickatas and some other Indian tribes since the Indian Wars of the 1840s.
		And I had moved to the Tri-Cities in eastern Washington and read a newspaper report in 1978 about sightings that had been going on up there, and there were objects that were being photographed by the local fire control officer Bill Vogel.
		And I decided that this was an opportunity to really dig into something that was close to home.
		It was in my own backyard.
		And so I went up and met Bill Vogel and began looking into his reports and looking at his photographs.
		And consistently, what was being shown over and over again in his life was this particular object, which was a sphere, usually orange or reddish-orange in color.
		And there were so many of these photographs that he had taken, and he was a very solid, level-headed man.
		He was, as I said, the fire control officer.
		He was employed by the U.S. government and the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, he was kind of up on top of a hill or a mountain overlooking a large area of forest and looking for fires.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's why he was there, right?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's right.
		What he had is he had a network of observers.
		Actually, he was based down in Topanish, which is down there in the middle of the reservation.
		But his fire lookouts would travel up to a number of peaks, 3,000 to 4,000, 5,000-foot-high peaks, and these peaks overlook the Indian lands there.
		Much of the Indian Reservation is heavily forested, and, of course, during the summer there's the tendency for fires in the Pacific Northwest through the river and forest up here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, and you've got a photograph of one of the stations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it Sophia?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Sopelia, yeah, Sopelia Lookout Station, yes.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it was that kind of station where these photographs were taken.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, one of the photographs was taken by a fire lookout from a Fetus Peak lookout station.
		It was a daylight photograph.
		I think you can see that in the book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		There were other photographs that were taken actually on the valley floor there by Bill Vogel and also by an electrical engineer from Seattle named David Akers.
		David Akers was asked to go out to the reservation by J. Allen Hynek and to actually do a stakeout or a set up an observation post at various places on the reservation and look for these things.
		And David Akers himself also managed to observe them and photograph them.
		So here we have photographs by actually three photographers.
		We have observations by David Akers, by Bill Vogel, by the Park lookouts, and also by ranchers and policemen on the reservation.
		So it was evident to me in looking at this data on a preliminary basis along with Vogel that indeed there was something physically real here, something that could be studied and analyzed.
unidentified		What did they think they were seeing?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, they really had no idea.
		Actually, a lot of these reports began filtering into Bill Vogel in the late 1960s.
		When he first heard these reports, he was a bit skeptical.
		But being an official and being responsible for his fire network, he had to certainly keep an open mind about it and record what he had been hearing.
		It wasn't until September of 1971 when he was actually patrolling, looking for possible fires after a lightning storm, that he became, I guess, what you might call a believer, because at that time, he saw a teardrop-shaped object, a very bright luminescent object with what he called a rat's tail, which was hanging off the upper end of it, which had flashing multicolored lights on it.
		And he succeeded in actually photographing it and watched it slowly traverse Highway 22 to the south over a period of about 30 minutes.
		And he concluded, because it was soundless and because of its shape, that this was not any known aircraft or phenomenon that he was familiar with.
		So at that point, he became much more interested and much more open-minded about what his fire lookouts were bringing to him as far as reports went.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So all of this at this point, with a number of reports in the photographs, and I've got them here in your book, began to seem like something of substance.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And at that point, we will pick up the story when we come back from the news.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going to break here at the top of the hour for the news.
unidentified		You're listening to a program which is a bit different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'll discover that as it continues.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's called Dreamland, Sunday Evening.
unidentified		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		We deal with topics that a lot of other people wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then again, that's why we do it.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		We'll be right back.
		Right?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So from the original 47 sightings to the Indian Reservation to more investigation and more interest and photographs.
		And so where are we?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, the activity on the reservation that was recorded by Bill Vogel and his fire lookouts and others was very, very intense during the 1970s.
		Starting in late 1960s and picking up and increasing through 1972, 1975, 1976, UFOs became almost a nightly affair on the reservation.
		The amount of documentation that Bill Vogel has, which was substantial, doesn't come to reflect the number of sightings that were there.
		When I went up to the reservation studying this year after year, I had so many leads to follow, I could never possibly pursue all of them.
		In fact, I once thought what I really needed was about a half a dozen researchers and a few full-time secretaries to keep track of it.
		There's something very unique, something very special about this place in Washington State.
		The connection between Arnold's sighting and these sightings, I'm not certain what it is beyond the fact that they were both very close in geographic space.
		But where we are today is activity still continues to go on there.
		I'm in contact with an investigator there now who's looking into some current sightings.
		But it's not as intense as it was.
		Now the question is, why was it so intense and why has it tapered off?
		What I tried to do after amassing all this evidence was try to find patterns and try to find some kind of theory, some kind of hypothesis that we could test with the data as well as with physics to try to determine exactly what was going on.
		You know, your earlier question that you posed to me was: you know, are these balls of light a natural phenomenon or are they a technological device of some type?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		So the tectonic strain theory of UFOs, which is the theory that I test in this book, was something that I took a very close look at.
		It's probably worth trying to explain that.
		The Pacific Northwest is an earthquake-prone part of the country.
		I'm sure your listeners are familiar with Mount St. Helens, Mount Rainier, Mount Adams, the whole Cascade Mountain range is a result of major volcanic activity going back eons at that time.
		And we're on what is called the ring of fire.
		And earthquakes are prevalent up here.
		In fact, there's a lot of them that are beginning to occur in Oregon.
		There's more activity going on today than there was a few years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, let me stop you there, Greg.
		I don't know if you have studied it, but I have several studies purporting to show that the number of six-point-plus earthquakes over the last many decades has increased at an alarming rate.
		An alarming rate.
		And, of course, I've had Gordon Michaels Gallion on and others who have talked about the earthquake activity and what has occurred, what they have predicted, and what has come true.
		And there is a lot of activity going on.
		There's also a current large UFO flop going on.
		Oh, is that right?
		Oh, yes, yes.
		And the quake reports hit me daily.
		So are you suggesting, and can you document, a connection?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, the tectonic strain theory of UFOs, let's take a look at that, and that way I can answer your question.
		As humans, what we really are are very, very small beings that live on a thin crustal skin on planet Earth.
		And the Earth is 8,000 miles in diameter.
		And of those 8,000 miles, only 25 miles of that distance is composed of what we really call the surface of the Earth, the rock that we live on.
unidentified		And this rock is really composed of plates.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		These plates are moving under pressure caused by subterranean forces, by liquid magma, which is boiling beneath us.
		And when these plates move up against each other and slip suddenly, of course we have an earthquake.
		The Yakima Indian Reservation, as it turns out, is actually heavily faulted.
		There are signs of earthquake activity going on there today, and there was low-level earthquake activity going on during the 1970s.
		Mount St. Helens is about 180, 200 miles to the southwest.
		Again, we have the Cascade.
		So I took a look at this theory, which has really been promulgated by Michael Persinger in Canada and also supported by John Durer with the U.S. Geological Survey.
		And what it says is that in earthquake-prone areas, there is a buildup of pressure that is eliciting some kind of energy, which is ionizing the Earth's atmosphere above the surface of the Earth and forming a ball.
		And then this ball can move and appear to be intelligent in its activities as the energy column or energy stream beneath it moves along fault lines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so you appear now to be arguing this is perhaps a natural phenomenon associated with earth or tectonic pressure.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, that indeed is a possibility.
		What I've done since Yakima is I've extended my research out to look at data from other sites, other states and other countries around the world.
		And I'm also digging back into decades of sightings.
		I'm going back to the 1940s and 50s and working my way back to where we are today.
		And there are some clear indications that there are certain geographic areas where there is a clustering of earthquakes or earthquake faulting or signs of activity in the area and these lights.
		Now, one way to be able to prove that there is a connection between earthquakes and UFOs is to be able to have a database that's large enough to do that.
		By pinpointing the geographic areas, we can go in and look at seismic activity that's gone on there over a span of time.
		We can take a look at UFOs that have been sighted there and see if there's any direct correlations between them.
		Michael Persinger and John Durer have done that with Yakima.
		They feel that there is a strong statistical correlation, a preponderance of data that shows that shortly before or after earthquakes, lights are seen.
		And it's very compelling.
		The problem is, is that mixed up with these balls of light on the Indian Reservation, there were also reports of Bigfoot.
		There were also reports of what appear to be abductions, as we understand them.
		There are also reports of encounters of humanoids.
		And also beeping sounds and other kinds of strange noises.
unidentified		All right, well, there's a good place to tell me.
unidentified		I've got an audio recording here, a short audio recording.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How was this obtained?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		This is a recording that was made by a UFO researcher named David Jacobson.
		And in April of 1975, April 19th, actually, he recorded this on the Chulalop Indian Reservation, which is just above Seattle in the Puget Sound area.
		I don't know all the details about it, except that there was something that was being heard up there many years earlier.
		I think it was 1966 in Hoopdall, Washington, there was a similar beeping sound that was heard that skeptics interpreted as being the sound of a soft, wet owl.
		But he had recorded these, and actually Bill Vogel had this recording and provided it to me.
		Since this recording, I have been in touch with another researcher who has acquired other recordings from other independent investigators and has had them all analyzed and has shown clearly that it's not an owl.
		They do share the same frequency band and similarities, and they seem to be the same sound.
		Now, the interesting thing about this particular tape that you have is that it was recorded in April of 1975, and at the same time, in the same month, on the Yakima Indian Reservation, which would have been several hundred miles to the east, Bill Vogel was receiving reports of beeping sounds.
		And in fact, I interviewed a witness on the reservation who himself had heard these.
		I found this extremely interesting because here we have independent witnesses.
		We had a recording.
		And then most recently, as I mentioned, there have been some other recordings that have surfaced of the same sound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ari is that real?
unidentified		Yes, but it appears to be associated with something that he's seeing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, clearly from what he said, he was seeing an object.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not certain whether he really saw an object or I think he might have only gotten part of the narrative.
		He was attempting to find an object.
		It was located somewhere above him in the trees.
		They attempted to see it, but I don't believe actually they ever saw it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's play it.
		Let's let the audience decide for themselves.
		It is an hot-beeping sound.
		The audio level was very low.
		I hope you'll be able to hear it.
		Here is the sound.
unidentified		Here.
		Again, the object is quite close by.
		The purpose is to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's it.
		The object is quite close by, he said, and the compass is steady.
		So you're right, he didn't really say that he was seeing an object.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		He was assuming that there was an object.
		Now, let me just take a brief moment, if I could, Art.
		I went through my files and I pulled out some representative samples of newspaper stories that were being published in the early 1970s around the country, which, interestingly, were reporting beeping sounds which were associated with objects.
		Here's one dated July 17th, 1972, Elliott Lake, Ontario.
		This is from the Espanola Standard, Ontario, Canada.
		Three girls here heard a loud humming noise with an intermittent beeping sound coming from the area over the high school.
		They also heard what sounded like magnified voices coming from something behind the high school.
		They then saw a giant red ball about the size of a full moon, which is quite interesting.
		Here's another report from the News American of Baltimore, Maryland, dated August 30th, 1972.
		On August 14th, 1972, a young man named Greg Faltersack told police that he was driving along a country road.
		He was surrounded by mist and woods when he saw something.
		At that moment, the electrical system in his Plymouth went out, and he heard a strange beeping noise.
		Here's another report from Centralia, Washington.
		This is March 18, 1971.
		June Wadsworth observed a UFO in the sky.
		It had multicolored red and green blinking lights and was emitting a strange beeping sound.
		I have numerous accounts here.
		I probably have at least two dozen of these.
		And it's clear to me that in some cases there is an object associated with it, and in many cases it is a ball of light.
		So there seems to be something rather intriguing here that perhaps balls of light are emitting a beeping sound.
		They do affect automobile engines.
		They do affect animals in some cases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would suggest a large electromagnetic field to affect an automobile.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, that's true.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the other hand, that would not necessarily be out of line with something that would be produced by pressure, I suppose, from the Earth.
unidentified		Gee, this is all guesswork.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are a lot of people talking about beings of light.
		I'm sure you've heard that phrase a million times.
		Any connection, do you think?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, there's another report that I should mention to you, and it's The Interrupted Journey by John Fuller, which is an interesting chronicle of Betty and Barney Hill's, you know, famous abduction case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		You know, in preparing for your show, I went back and looked in here, and on page 123, there is the transcripts of the interviews that were held with Betty and Barney Hill.
		And at the close of their experience, when they left the scene, they saw a bright, huge ball, which was orange.
		I'm quoting it right here.
		It was a bright, huge ball, orange.
		It was a beautiful, bright ball.
		And as they were driving away, they heard a beeping sound, which seemed to be coming from behind their automobile.
		So it may be that the beeping sounds are being emitted by balls of light, which are craft which are carrying beings.
		So the problem is putting all these pieces together, and the only way to do it is to go to particular areas like Yakima or be able to gather enough data from disparate locations from independent observers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've given us a lot of evidence suggesting both natural and unnatural.
		You're the guy who has studied this for so long.
		What is your best guess?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, my best guess is that we really don't have an answer.
		I mean, I think that it's worth testing the tectonic strain theory of UFOs further.
		That's my specific goal.
		I now have amassed thousands of reports from newspaper sources and from investigators' files and articles.
		There's enough data now that we can look at these cluster areas and look at the seismic record and see if we can see a direct correlation in time with objects and with earthquakes.
		Michael Kersinger's work is very, very compelling and very interesting.
		The problem is with Yakima, he never really showed any direct correspondence in time between an earthquake and a ball of light.
		That is, when an earthquake occurs, there should be a ball of light.
		Well, he never found that.
		He found an interesting pattern in which balls of light would appear about six months after a low-level earthquake.
		They never could match the two together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Greg.
		Hold it right There, we'll be right back with you.
		I know there will be a lot of people who will have reports for you, people who have seen balls of light or even beings of light because we have had many, many, many such reports.
		So, it is an interesting area to look into, and we'll do more of it in a moment.
		You may think your home's your castle, but not if you've got home.
unidentified		There are many, many...
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Get in touch with George Wingfield, who was on earlier with Linda Woltenhow.
		I know that he has some reports of balls of light that are associated with those.
		There are some news clippings I have from several years ago in which observers had reported some orange balls of light.
		That's fascinating.
		There may be something going on there.
		That sort of opens a Pandora's box now.
		Not only do we have earthquakes, but we have sometimes the Bigfoot associated with ball of light sighting.
		We have abductions, and now we have crop circles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bigfoot fascinates me.
		I've never been able to find an expert to have on the program and talk about Bigfoot.
		Maybe you can fill us in a little bit.
		Let's go to the phones again.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Greg Long.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Lexington, Kentucky.
		All right.
		It's interesting that you happened to mention Bigfoot because that was what my question was about.
		Good.
		Something that had occurred to me, and I'll try to make this brief, that you said there's been an association with Bigfoot and UFO.
		I've also heard in the literature that there's an association between UFOs and aliens genetically altering human beings through the course of history.
		What I'm wondering is you might pose to this guest and some of your other guests in the future, if they've ever considered that the human race, where it would have been, say, thousands of years ago, is what Bigfoot is today, and we're the new improved version.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		All right, we're on Bigfoot, so let's stay there for a moment.
		Are we an improved version of Bigfoot?
unidentified		Is he some sort of relic of what we once were or what?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's beyond me.
		I'm not an anthropologist.
		You know, Bigfoot, up here in the Pacific Northwest, it has been observed Bigfoot in areas where UFOs have been seen.
		At Yakima, for example, I know Esta Cata, Oregon, which is east of Portland, there have been sightings of UFOs as well as Bigfoot sightings, too.
		Bigfoot was also heavily reported in Pennsylvania in the 1970s.
		And that Bigfoot, though, was a much different variety.
		It had fangs and glowing red eyes and extremely vicious and a very violent creature.
		And it was observed in Rome, Ohio, for example, in Dennis Pelichis, who I'm not sure if he's active in the field anymore, but he had documented right in his hometown sightings of this Bigfoot creature and UFOs that were operating over a farmer's property there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You like sounds, Gray.
		I'll tell you, Linda Moulton Howe, did you happen to hear, I think it was two weeks ago, she had the sound of something that sounded horrible.
		I mean, it raised the hair on the back of your neck.
		We're going to hear it again next week.
unidentified		And it certainly could have been like the creature you just described.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sounded awful.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		I'd love to hear that.
		You know, I have a recording as well that I might send you art.
		I'll just send it to you later.
		It's also a Bigfoot try up in Sonomish, Washington.
		Sonomish has historically been a very active area for Bigfoot.
		But to answer your caller's question about whether Bigfoot is or whether we are a successful genetic experiment, I guess you might say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		I really don't know how to answer that.
		Grover Krantz is someone you might want to invite here on your show.
		He's been studying Bigfoot for 20 years.
		He is an anthropologist at Washington State University.
unidentified		Ah.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		And has published a book called Bigfoot Prints and has done an excellent job in looking at plaster casts and hair samples and all the data that he has managed to gather over the last year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he would be very interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you get me contact information for that?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Sure, I can.
		I certainly will be glad to do that.
		There are some other people.
		Give me some time to think about it that I can mention to you as well you might want to invite on your show to cover that subject.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm always interested, and we're in a constant search for good people in these areas.
		You're the first one I've ever had, Greg, that has researched balls of light for as long as you have.
		And as I said, if this morphing business is accurate, then it's horrendously frustrating.
		It must be for you to even consider such thing.
		Greg, we're at the top of the hour.
		So just relax.
		We'll be back in about five minutes.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Greg Long is my guest, investigator, author, and there is more to come on Dreamland.
unidentified		East.
unidentified		Well, all right, the Alpine Air Purification.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So back to the phones very quickly.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Greg Long.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, how you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, where are you?
unidentified		My name is Jim, and I'm in Mesa, Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jim.
unidentified		I have two things relating to, I guess they're balls of light.
		One was an instance where my wife and I and a friend of ours were driving in a car on Interstate 40 at like 2 in the morning, and there was no other cars on the road.
		We were in the desert in California, approaching Arizona.
		And we seen up ahead what we thought was a truck coming the other direction on the highway.
		And when we got closer, it wasn't a truck.
		It was just one big light hovering over the highway.
		It just was a round globe of bright light where you had to squint your eyes, and it got to the point where we had to stop the car to a dead stop, and then it just blinked out and disappeared.
		The light had taken up three lanes of the highway.
		It was just hovering in the air.
		It wasn't moving anything.
		And it was in the desert.
		There was no buildings or any reflection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting, you would say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You say it just poofed out?
unidentified		It just blinked out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just blanked out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that is interesting, Art, because the balls of light that were observed on the Yakima Indian Reservation were either hovering or moving slowly and typically went out like a light switch being thrown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let me read you this.
		From Vincent in Kent, Washington.
		Art.
		I lived in Yakima, 1973 to 83.
		I operated the City of Yakima Senior Center from 73 to 75.
		Some of the old timers told me about these balls of light.
		The ones who saw them thought they were balls of flames.
		Sometimes they would float over north, float north over, I believe it's Antonim Ridge from the reservation.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Antietam.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Antietam Ridge.
		From the reservation to the city of Yakima.
		Some said they saw them bounce on the ground, and some just went poop, and they went out like a candle going out.
unidentified		Some thought they even started fires.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's Vince in Kent.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's very interesting.
		I can hope I can talk to Vince.
		I'd like to know more about what he knows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, toward that end, I try to allow my guests to always do this, the ones who don't pipe up first.
		I know you've got a book, and so tell them how to get your book, and if you would like...
		I know.
		If you would like to supply a phone number or an address for people to contact you, you are welcome to do so.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me do that, and I'll take what happens.
		If anyone's interested in buying, examining the Earth-like theory, it does cost $19.95, and you can purchase it from the Center for UFO Studies.
		The address is 2457 West Peterson Avenue, Chicago, Illinois, 60659.
		I'll repeat that one more time.
		Center for UFO Studies, 1995, for the book.
		The address is 2457 West Peterson Avenue, Chicago, Illinois, 60659.
		And I would like to hear from people.
		I'll give your listeners my address and phone number.
		Okay.
		But I'm looking for data, and I'm sure there's people out there who have observed these things and perhaps even photograph them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		My address is P.O. Box 819, Delomath, Oregon.
		And that's spelled P H I L O M A T H D Lomath, Oregon, 97370.
		I'll repeat it one more time.
		P.O. Box 819, Delomath, Oregon.
		Spelled P-H-I-L-O-M-A-T-H.
		Oregon, 97370.
		My phone number is Area 503-929-3557.
		I'll repeat it one last time.
		Area 503-929-3557.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, that ought to do it.
		Good luck.
		I hope you like being on the phone.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		I hope I can get some sleep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Greg Long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Hi, I'm in Baton Rouge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		I lived in North Carolina back in the 80s, and there was a, I think, fairly well-known legend or set of stories about lights that danced through the hills and hollows in some part of the Piedmont or the Appalachians.
		I wonder if you were familiar with that.
		Well, I am familiar with spook lights and ghost lights.
		A lot of those reports, which are of small balls of light, in this case we're talking about several inches to maybe a few feet in diameter, are reported from the Appalachian or middle southern, I guess, area of the state, as well as the Midwest, parts of the Midwest.
		I can't pinpoint exact areas.
		There are the Brown Mountain Lights, I believe, in North Carolina, which is a famous locale for observations of these kinds of lights.
		But there's a long, extensive body of literature on what are called spook lights or ghost lights, which have some connection to folklore, although I'm not really convinced that it has anything to do with myth or legend.
		I think they are real.
		But typically they are small, and they are often white in color or bluish or, again, orange in color.
		But they don't seem to be related to the kind of things we're talking about here.
		Well, they very well may be.
		You know, if when I got into the subject, I wrote to the U.S. Geological Survey, and I said, give me all you know about earthquake faults in the United States.
		I got a map that's about four feet by two and a half feet in dimensions.
		And the United States, remarkably, is very, very heavily faulted.
		The only area of the United States that is not filled with faults is the upper Midwest portion of the United States.
		The Appalachians and the eastern seaboard are heavily faulted.
		And I wouldn't be surprised if some of these things that are being observed in those areas are related to earthwides.
		Well, and, you know, keep in mind, of course, that much of the seismic activity in the last couple of hundred years, New Madrid, Charleston, you know, there have been some major quake faults up in the New England area, too.
		Like you say, much of what we see or have seen in recent history has been on the West Coast, but there's been a lot of that kind of activity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was recent activity in New England.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was recent activity of all places in South Dakota.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Is that right?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there is, thank you, there's all kinds of earthquake activity going on, and there are a lot of people, and I don't know what weight you give to this, Greg, but there are a lot of people out there who feel something is getting ready to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know it's a very vague statement, but believe me, there are a lot of people that feel it.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, there are a lot of precursors to earthquakes, and I'm sure you're familiar with what the Chinese are doing, using animals, fish and aquaria and birds and small animals, in which the Chinese have small armies, if you will, of people who do nothing but watch these animals' behavior.
		And often before major earthquakes, these animals will become frightened and frenzied and run around their cages and squawk and scream and everything else.
		And it's not beyond comprehension that people have some sensitivity to changes in electromagnetic fields and vibrations in the earth and that kind of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're doing right.
		I happen to believe that for one.
		It is interesting the balls of light appear, seemingly appear after an earthquake and not before.
		So they're not of much predictive value, apparently.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, the tectonic strain theory does call for the appearance of these before and after earthquakes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, before as well.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, before and after them as well.
		I guess I should have qualified that earlier.
		It's a lag time of about six to nine months, typically, which is what Persinger is talking about, where these balls of light will be observed, and then there is an earthquake.
		We do know that there are earthquake lights.
		This is well documented.
		There was a flurry of earthquake activity in Japan in the 1960s, and a number of photographs were taken of glows of light which were emanating from the surface of the Earth.
		These were typically described as being like an overturned bowl or a half circle of light.
		There's been a lot of literature that's been compiled over the last 50 or 60 years.
		There's a researcher that was named Galli in Italy who compiled a large catalog of observations of ball of light and luminescent kind of phenomena in Italy, which also is earthquake problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Back to East of the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Greg Long.
		Hi.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
unidentified		Oh, I'm Anna from Springfield in Ohio.
		I saw one of those orange balls about 12, 15 years ago.
		I don't recall.
		I couldn't sleep when I woke up out of a dead sleep.
		And I come downstairs.
		I was mad because I couldn't sleep.
		Had more milk, went back upstairs and sat on a bed.
		And I didn't have curtains up on my backside of my windows.
		And I saw this orange ball come real slow and then it stopped and it just went down to the ground.
		There's a lake behind our home.
		And one night I had one of those little gray guys standing by my bed.
		And I swung at it and told it to get the hell out of here and it went.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's interesting.
unidentified		Yeah.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		You know, the ball of light, again, you know, we're trying to unravel this mystery of what's causing them.
		As I said earlier, there seems to be an association between balls of light and the so-called encounter reports.
		You know, Ed Conroy, again, looking through some of the literature, it's such a math of this, but Ed Conroy worked for the San Antonio Express and wrote a book called Report on Communion, in which he looked at Whitley Streeber's accounts to try to provide validity for them.
		And he himself saw on Streeber's property when he was invited out there a ball of light which was moving in an undulating fashion.
		It had the apparent size of a golf ball and moved just above the trees.
		So there seemed to be some compelling connection between balls of light and aliens, if you will, or the abduction scenario, what have you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's hold it right there for a second.
		Greg Long is my guest.
		I kind of like that lady's idea.
		Some of the rest of you might bear it in mind.
		Ever faced with a gray or an alien face to face?
		She told it, get the hell out of here.
		And it did.
		That's probably worth remembering.
unidentified		North American Trading has done a very wild wonderful program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I have never seen an alien ever.
		I love your program.
		I got hooked on this.
		I'm only 15.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've never seen an alien either, so don't worry about it.
unidentified		I've never seen anything.
		I did one day see a small ball of light a couple miles from my home floating just above the treetops.
		It was very tiny.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, the only problem with balls of light in Florida and parts of the South is that the scientists are so easily able to say swamp gas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that not true, Greg?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's true.
		But, you know, if you look at really what swamp gas is, it's a very diffuse chemoluminescent phenomenon.
		It tends to be very diffuse and hazy and fuzzy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what did you see, sir?
unidentified		Was it a distinct...
		Oh, well, it was just, well, if I looked out my window, it was just right above the treetops.
		And, well, I live very close to the water, so we couldn't have been swamped out because I was not far from the ocean.
		And it was, well, it looked very far away.
		It was a really tiny, small ball of white, and it was just, it wasn't pulsing or flashy.
		It was just solid light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then did it disappear and fly away?
unidentified		Or how did it, or did you just get tired of watching?
		Well, I just kept watching.
		It suddenly just, it moved a little to the left, did a little small triangular pattern, and then took off to the south.
		Took off?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you.
		See, that sounds like a craft to me.
		That sounds much more like something capable of its own movement.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's true.
		Again, that's why it's important to look at all these reports in the finer details, because some of these balls of light that are simply hovering in one place and going out, again, they suggest an energy being depleted, and now with the energy gone, the light form is going to vanish.
		But objects that are hovering and then shooting off at high speed or in some direction, an angle, output in the atmosphere.
		I don't think that can be accounted for by an electromagnetic beam or a column or something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, back again for a second to the earthquakes, because I have a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How deep is your database of information to suggest a correlation between the two?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's deep in the respect that there are many cases where these balls of light or other lights, again, balls of light are really the signature that you're looking for in correlating lights with earthquakes.
		But in some cases, I have flashes of light and sparkles and bursts of light and that kind of thing.
		But there is an interesting pattern where many of these balls of light are seeing around mountains.
		And, you know, mountains are caused by the upthrusting of rock from the earth.
		And that upthrusting is caused by plates that are moving one against the other one.
		So if you look at particular geographic areas and look at the landscape, look at the topography, and look at what is being observed there, there is, on the face of it at least, a correlation.
		But the work has to be done in terms of going into the seismic database.
		And looking at actual earthquake activity and looking at the appearance of the lights and when they happen.
		That hasn't been done yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		Thank you.
		Greg Wong is my guest.
		He'll be back in just a moment next week on Dreamland.
		Dr. James Lewis, author of the new encyclopedia of afterlife and phenomena.
		That should be very interesting.
		Next week on Dreamland, don't forget our bulletin board number, area code 702-727-1709, 24 hours a day.
unidentified		The End Talk is cheap, so get your money's worth.
		We're Talk 102.
		Each day, more than 3,000 American children smoke their very first cigarette.
		I didn't know that.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Is that an accurate statistic?
unidentified		Naturally, at least 3.1 million adolescents are smokers.
unidentified		Oh, you must be kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not.
unidentified		The majority of smokers are hooked before they're 15 years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		That's not possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
		Smoking, an equal opportunity killer.
		Sponsored by the LA Coalition Against Tobacco.
		Everyone likes the summer, especially burglars.
unidentified		According to FBI statistics, over 26% of out-of-the-re-ins occur between Memorial Day and Labor Day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So when you go away, burglars go to work.
unidentified		That means you need room.
unidentified		This hour of Art Bell was recorded for rebroadcast at this time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please do not call.
unidentified		From the Kingdom of Nine, we continue with your calls on Dreamland with Art Bell.
		Call Art Now, toll-free, at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-TALK.
		First time callers, Area Code 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Or the Wildcard line at Area Code 702-727-1295.
		727-1295.
		In the 702 area.
		Now again, here's Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, and welcome back.
		Greg Long is my guest.
		For 19 years, he's been researching balls of light.
		And it's almost hard for me to imagine somebody spending that number of years on it, and yet so many have seen them.
		So many of you have seen them.
		Well, maybe I can understand it.
		At any rate, back to him and a bunch of faxes here in a moment.
		The Sea Crane company has got GE Super 3 radios in.
		And I'll tell you, the Super Series of GE3s, I'm not going to go through the whole history, but they are the most sensitive front-end AM radios that I think are sold anywhere.
		They're just absolutely incredible.
		The GE3, when it first came out, was a big disappointment.
		Everybody went, wow, we thought it would be an improvement over the other great GE series, and it wasn't.
		Well, they got recalled, and whatever was wrong, they fixed it.
		And it is truly super.
		It's a portable.
		It operates on batteries, D cells, just like the old Zenith Transoceanic, or you can plug it into the wall, and it comes with a plug actually attached to go right into the wall.
		It's got a large speaker, so the AM reproduction is superb.
		It's got a large ferrite antenna, and I guess that's part of the reason it does so well on AM.
		And of course, these sell out immediately.
		And I mean immediately.
		So if you want one, you must be on the phone early in the morning, Monday morning.
		I doubt they'll be.
		I bet they're all sold out by, oh, I don't know, 11 o'clock.
		No later than.
		They're $59.95.
		And I'll tell you something: Bob Crane, I don't think he makes very much on these, or maybe he doesn't make anything at all.
		The reason we sell them is because we want you to have good AM reception.
		Actually, he better make a couple bucks on them, but I'll tell you, it's not certainly not much.
		This is near rock bottom, $59.95.
		If you want one, and the phones are busy, try back after 10 a.m.
		But I'll tell you, get on it at 7.30 Pacific time.
		1-800-522-8863.
		1-800-522-8863.
		Hope you have that number written down.
		All right, back to Greg Long.
		Greg, are you there?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm still here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I grew up in Yakima.
		My dad, who was 56 years old when I was born, mentioned seeing these balls of light several times while hunting the lower valley well before I was born in 1949.
		He thought little of them.
		He simply referred to them as lightning balls.
		No big deal to him or his hunting buddies.
		So apparently a lot of people had seen these, but lightning balls, again, that requires lightning, doesn't it?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		Yeah, we'd have to know what the weather conditions were at the time that this father saw these.
		You'd have to have lightning to have ball lightning.
		So it says that the weather is clear, there has to be some other explanation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Another one.
		I've been listening to your guest, Greg, tonight, and it reminds me of a recent experience which may not be related.
		About two months ago, I had a photograph taken of my aura, which showed, interestingly enough, an orange ball of light above my aura.
		The photographer stated, so he's got this photograph and is willing to supply it.
		He may upload it to my bulletin board service.
		I hope so.
		Which is open 24 hours a day.
		Don't remove your face, Pete.
		He says he's going to remove his face.
		That would take away from it.
		It's area code 702-727-1709, open 24 hours a day.
		So you're also welcome, by the way, Greg.
unidentified		Are you on computers and the internet, that sort of thing?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not yet.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		I want to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I highly recommend it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I think you'll find that, you know, your ability to reach out and investigate will really be enhanced.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Greg Long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Well, hello.
unidentified		That was quick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, good.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		This is Dorothy Cohen from Liberal Kansas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Excuse me.
		I have three things to discuss.
		Number one, approximately a year ago, July or August, New Lenox, Illinois, man and his wife coming home.
		He is a scientist with a major government installation.
		It had started to rain.
		They had just come over a railroad track, and they saw a blue light following them.
		They thought it was the police car coming up on him, so he slowed down because he thought he was speeding.
		And it caught up with them and came into the car.
		Don't went nowhere.
		It just lit up the car, but it was a big blue ball of light.
		Now, it was raining.
		They came on to where I was.
		They said they had come directly there.
		The lights were off because there had been a noise of an explosion or something.
		That it had a power transformer.
		Now, they thought they had come directly, which I wasn't more than four minutes away from where they were, but there was a good half hour to 45 minutes time lapse from the time that blue light was in their car to the time they got to the house.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting.
unidentified		But they didn't also, well, what they did was ball lightning, is it blue?
unidentified		This had followed them down the highway.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is a problem with something following an automobile.
		Typically, ball lightning appears to be attracted to some metallic objects when they enter homes, and they usually explode with a very loud report.
		In fact, they've been known to kill people when they explode.
		There are accounts in the UFO literature of balls that do follow automobiles for miles and miles.
		We've got a problem here, though, with the weather.
		Certainly it's possible for ball lightning to enter into an automobile if there is some kind of crack between the window and the door or that kind of thing.
		So it has to be researched more.
		The loss of time, that fits the missing time phenomenon with abductions.
		At the same time, perhaps there's the automobile.
		Although if they were driving and lost consciousness for 30 minutes, I would tend to think they would have driven off the road.
unidentified		Well, they thought that they had just continued on their way, but when I reminded them when the electric went off, there had been a good half hour to 45 minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Greg, are there a lot of reports of disruptions of vehicles, operation, in other words, engines stopping, that sort of thing, associated with the appearance of the balls?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		You know, Mark Rodeger, who's the scientific director of the Center for UFO Studies, looked at that very question about vehicle interference.
		And he took a database of several hundred reports and looked at correlations between UFOs and car stoppages, you know, engines going out and that sort of thing.
		He did notice that there was a subset of ball of light phenomena that seemed to be associated with that, but the preponderance of car stoppages really were more structured-looking objects.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's interesting because, Greg, I've been hearing reports lately that scientists have actually developed some sort of device that can produce an EMF-type pulse that can stop a car.
		I mean, they're doing research so that, you know, police, instead of having a high-speed car chase, can point this at a car and stop the engine.
		So, you know, it's not outrageous, apparently, that there would be this sort of energy possible.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, certainly.
		There's a famous case called the Val Johnson case in which a sheriff's deputy in, I think it was Minnesota or Michigan in the late 1970s saw a ball of light which was suspended over a highway and this thing came hurtling at him and hit struck his automobile and he became unconscious for a period of time.
		And the car was studied by the Center for UFO Studies working with General Motors and they looked at the windfield and a bent antenna and chips of paint that were burnt off of the car and that kind of thing.
		And it certainly is possible that you can generate some kind of ball or beam of energy and disable engines and people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose that ball lightning though would have a great deal of EMF energy contained in it, wouldn't it?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, boy, who knows.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Greg Long.
		Hi.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, if you would, for us, please, and tell us where you're calling from.
unidentified		Columbia, Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Columbia, Missouri, all right?
unidentified		Yes, first of all, I want to say a great show.
unidentified		Is there some way I can get hold of the theme music you use?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's Ray Lynch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ray Lynch does it.
unidentified		It's called the O of Pleasure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like OH, O of Pleasure.
unidentified		Ooh.
		Okay.
		All right.
		Question for Greg Long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Not a question.
		You were talking about ghost lights.
		Back in the late 50s, down around Carthage, Joplin, Missouri, they had some ghost lights out in the inner lands.
		Even had a little telescope set up you could put a quarter in and view them.
		And we had a kid there in a high school named Bill Underwood who made that his science project.
		And he studied them and used very powerful refractive optics and resolved the images of the ghost lights.
		And it turned out that they were made by headlights on a highway some miles away.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm familiar with that study.
		The Marfa lights in Texas, people have been looking at those as well, and they're looking at the idea that headlights are actually being observed at some distance and being distorted through haze or simply distance and are being resolved with the human eye as balls of light.
		So there are some explanations for these things.
unidentified		That's not everything.
unidentified		Excuse me?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		That might not explain everything, but no, it would tend to explain some of these that tend to hover always over the same location and don't seem to ever be seen anywhere else.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		And it tends to suggest that there must be something that's repeating over and over again there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you were to compile and look at your database, what percentage of the reports would you classify as resolvable by natural phenomena?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, Art, the problem with that is not being able to do the seismic correlations yet.
		There is, I guess, a fairly significant number of these objects that are reported that suggest to me something natural in the respect that they are very short-lived.
		They tend to move up from the ground.
		For example, they look like they're coming up from behind a tree or a promontory or a ridge or something.
		They hover for a period of time and they go out.
		They aren't doing anything that you would associate with intelligent maneuver or surveillance or moving toward people or that kind of thing.
		The ones that follow automobiles for a period of time, the ones that are dividing and merging together and entering other objects, I have some cases where balls of light are ejected from other objects and descend to the ground or move toward the observer.
		You know, that's another question.
		I do think that there is probably a fairly significant body of UFO reports that are in the ball of light category that ultimately will be explained as being natural.
		The problem, though, as we've mentioned throughout the show, is balls of light that are associated with craft-like objects or abductions or close encounters and that kind of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Greg, stand by.
		We'll be right back to you.
		I saw one craft, ladies and gentlemen, one.
		It was silent, triangular, about 150 feet above me.
		There was no mistaking what it was.
		It was not a ball of light.
		It was a solid, very solid, very large object, not flying, but floating.
		I was in the Air Force, and I know what it takes for aerodynamic flight.
		So while there are balls of light, there are also craft, unmistakable craft, and there are a lot of mysteries up there.
		Many of them simply not explainable.
		Totally inexplicable.
		And that is why we do this program, trying to get to the root of it.
		We'll be right back.
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		Back now to Greg Long.
		Greg, are you there?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you been tempted, Greg, in your years of investigation, or maybe it's happened, I'm sure it has, from moving to an investigation of what seemed to be lights or lights in the sky or balls or whatever they are, to so many reports of objects?
		I ask that because of my own experience.
		I mean, Greg, what I saw wasn't a ball of light.
		There was no mistaking what it was.
		I mean, there was, but it was something, it was either technology that we don't even hint at, that we have, or it was from somewhere else.
		That's what I saw.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know what you're saying because they were looking at it, and one of them is lights, you know, lights in the sky and balls of light and that kind of thing.
		And of course, the structured objects and that sort of thing.
		Yeah, I guess I would say I have been tempted in that.
		It's hard to make a connection between the two.
		And yet, in cases where balls of light have been seen in concentrated areas like Yakima, there have also been, in some cases, structured objects that have been observed.
		You know, in my study, I did uncover sightings that these fire lookouts had of some silver-shaped cigars and disc-shaped objects.
		And so you have to ask yourself whether these are definitely two distinct phenomena, one of them natural and one of them that is manufactured, either on this planet or from another one.
		And it's very frustrating because when I hear of a sighting such as yourself and others have of boomerangs and triangles and this kind of thing, you tend to want to think, well, they must be manned by someone.
		They must be from some other planet.
		But if we're dealing with a phenomenon that at its source is energy and there is a capability of disguise itself too, and that's the kind of latest thinking that Willie Striever has, you know, we have a phenomenon that is vastly more complex and much more frustrating, maybe impossible to explain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, under the circumstances, manned might not be the right word, staffed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Greg Long, where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Pennsylvania.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, welcome.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		You're talking about ball lightning?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe.
unidentified		Okay.
		When I was 12, I stepped out in the porch of my uncle's house.
		It was about 10 a.m. in the morning.
		And about two feet in front of me, this ball about the size of a basketball made of what appeared to be some sort of electrical charge just passed in front of me.
		Scared the life out of me.
		And I ran in the house, come back out, and it was gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, there you go.
		See, that would be my reaction.
		Ball of energy right in front of me.
		Goodbye.
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm out of here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you did that, and when you came back, it was gone.
unidentified		It was absolutely silent.
		No noise.
		I never saw anything like it before or since.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		What was its color?
unidentified		White.
		White.
		And the edges had like a static discharge appearance, like as if it were electric.
		That's right.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any memory of what the weather was like?
unidentified		It was clear.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		It was clear.
unidentified		Okay, that's interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good report.
		Thank you.
		We're so far out of time, Greg.
		But I guess the reports...
		It's such an incredible phenomenon, and it's so widespread.
		That story, I guess, is fairly typical.
unidentified		Ball lightning, clear weather, energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's your best guess?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, you put me on the spot, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you always say that for last, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, you put the guy on the spot.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, my conclusions after these many years of studying this is that indeed the phenomenon is real.
		You know, we talk about technological devices, triangles and spacecraft and that kind of thing.
		Remarkably, my research has uncovered a significant number of photographs of balls of light, not only in this country, but in other countries such as the Hestelin sightings in Norway in the late 1980s as an example.
		There really is a lot of good photographic evidence.
		So I have to conclude that balls of light, spheres of light, are real, definitely real.
		I think there's some subcategories in which some of these things are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Define real for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Real, you mean really?
greg long ▲ ● ▼		They're made of matter.
		That is, they're a form of energy.
		We can see them.
		We can record them not only on film, but with our observational, our personal observational systems or visual systems.
		They're there.
		They've been repeated all over this country and other countries independently of each other.
		So indeed, it's real.
		My conclusion is, as far as whether it's a UFO phenomenon or not, is that indeed it is a UFO phenomenon in that we don't understand what it is.
		It remains unidentified and unexplained.
		In that case, it is a classic UFO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good enough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Greg Long, give me your phone number very quickly, one time.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Okay, it's area 503-929-3557.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It has been a pleasure having you on the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Greg.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you very much, Ernest.
greg long ▲ ● ▼		I enjoyed it tremendously.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
		All right.
		If you would like a copy of this program, or any Dreamland program, or you would like to subscribe to our newsletter, the Art Bell After Dark newsletter, the number to call is 1-800-917-4278.
		That's 1-800-917-4278, 24 hours a day.
		Or don't forget our bulletin board system.
		Lots of new stuff up there this weekend.
		Just put up there this weekend.
		Area code 702-727-1709.
		Well, it's been another good one.
		Thank you all.
		And from the high desert, good night.
unidentified		People next door with the big house and perfect kicks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nice people, right?
unidentified		Still, wouldn't it be kind of fun to make them squirm with envy?
		That's right.
		Have a cookout.

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