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July 9, 1995 - Art Bell
01:45:03
Dreamland with Art Bell - Linda Moulton Howe - Alien Autopsy Film - Earthlight Theory - Greg Long
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This hour of Art Bell was recorded for rebroadcast at this time.
Please do not call.
♪♪ Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination
of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
This is Dreamland.
Good evening.
It is Sunday evening and this indeed is Dreamland.
If you're just tuning in for the first time, and many of you out there are as the network continues to grow at an accelerated pace, You're in for a real treat.
This is a different kind of program.
We do it once a week.
We have a regular syndicated program, an all-night talk show, which I'm sure you'll get familiar with if you are not yet, but Dreamland occurs but once a week, Sunday evening.
It examines, as the little billboard just said, two very important areas, two important questions for mankind.
Whether there is another life following this one, and we follow all kinds of avenues in trying to answer that question.
And whether we are being, have been, or will be visited from others.
And we'll touch on just about all of it one way or the other, I'm sure, this evening.
First, way out in Seattle, Seattle is Linda Howe and Linda is at the MUFON convention a big con tab going up going on up in the Seattle area obviously of the big people in the UFO world and so since we have a reporter on the spot that's where we'll go in just a moment that will be first.
Do you have scaling in your In your house, in your pipes, in your water heater, in everything you drink, in all of the water that you wash your clothes with, wash your car with, do you have scaling in there?
Well, it's easy to find out if you've got the guts to go check.
All you've got to do is go take the aerator off your faucet and look in there and see if you see white crusty stuff.
Or for, you know, a real adventure, go in and look at the showerhead and see if it's coated and clogged.
Well, I had all that.
I live out... Hello, Linda?
Are you there, Linda?
Oh, gee.
Have we lost Linda?
Let's try this again.
Hello, Linda.
Art, can you hear me?
Oh, you are there.
Yeah, we've never left the phone.
Maybe there was a button on your end or something that didn't get pushed.
Could be.
Right here.
Oh, good.
Yes, I am in Seattle.
It has been an extraordinarily, I think, fruitful Nupon Conference, exploring both some of the more details of historic areas, like the old Blue Book report, up to the current day controversies around Roswell.
And in between, I have received new reports about crop circle formations in the United States,
in Inman, Kansas, and Alva, Oklahoma, and new mutilation reports from Maple Valley, Washington,
and Kansas City, Missouri, which I'll be reporting on in future Dreamland.
Alright, I'm getting the sense, Linda, that we're in the middle of a serious UFO flap right now.
I'm getting reports right and left, faxes, you name it.
Before we go on, Linda, I've got to jump in.
I said we're heard all over the place.
We've got a new station.
Um, this evening, uh, I think number 128 for Dreamland.
Oh, wonderful!
It is K-S-T-P-A-M, St., uh, Minneapolis, St.
Paul, Minnesota, 50,000 watts, covering a good part of the central part of the country, so I wanted to get that thank you, Linda.
Right, and we also are sitting in a city where there's another 50,000 watt AM1000KOMO that's carrying Dreamland right now.
You bet.
This is one of these areas where we're always getting reports from lights to abductions to animal mutilations to the possible Bigfoot screams that we were discussing a month ago.
This weekend, the subject that I think has captured everyone's imagination is what happened in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947, and is there a factual basis for looking at the film that's going to be released concerning the controversial Ray Santilli, Merlin Productions purchased 16mm film that we have discussed on
Dreamland with Ray, with everybody from Stanton Friedman to many others including Dan Silver
who saw that London screening.
With me right now is George Wingfield who is from England, was here and one hour ago
presented to the 500 and some Newfoundland assembly approximately five black and white
photographs of a being that is seen lying on some kind of a table.
There is no hair.
It is nude.
The head is much larger in proportion to a human head, but many other parts of this torso are human-like.
There are six distinct And there are six distinct toes on the foot.
The eyes are larger.
These appear to be photographs from the autopsy.
Now, having set this up, and that these black and white photos in the film are extremely controversial, I would like to now go to George Wingfield, who is with me right here, and who talked with Ray Santilli.
Uh, in London, uh, just last Tuesday about this film and what Ray Santilli is trying to do to prove whether or not it is actually film of an autopsy of a non-human being taken from somewhere in New Mexico in 47.
And with me now is George Weinfeld.
George, where would you right now say is the very best argument for the veracity of this film, given the fact that Congressman Schiff and possibly other congressmen have been being shown this Ray Santelli film as recently as the last two weeks in Washington?
Well, there are several things about this film which are very curious indeed, and we have to consider very carefully.
When the autopsy sequence was screened on May 5th in London, a recently invited one of England's leading pathologists to do this.
Give an opinion on what he saw.
People have, um, denigrated Ray Santilli and said that he's a charlatan and so forth and everything else, but, uh, this only emerged later when he invited the pathologist along, and this doesn't strike me as being the action of a guilty man he's trying to put across the scale.
Now, it's interesting to know what the pathologist actually thought of this, um, this autopsy sequence.
First of all, he's thought we're definitely dealing with a dead body here.
We're not dealing with any kind of a plastic dummy or a cleverly contrived Hollywood dummy or something of this kind made to look like an alien.
Now, although it has a lot of human characteristics, it also does look very peculiar, as Linda has just described.
Um, the figure's about five foot tall, which is not, you know, is rather larger than we'd expect an alien prey to be, the traditional description.
It has a large head, but it's not that large.
It has very large eyes, which apparently have some kind of a dark membrane across them, which, during the autopsy, is scraped off into a bowl by the surgeon, who incidentally looks as if he's done this before.
There are various other features like the six fingers, the six toes on each foot.
It appears to be a female.
There is no head hair or body hair at all.
And the reason it appears to be a female is that there is something that looks like a vaginal opening?
That's correct.
Yes.
May I ask a question of both or either one of you?
Um, is it uncommon, uh, in human beings, uh, for there to be six, uh, fingers, six toes?
Is that possible?
It's possible.
It's extremely rare.
It's a condition, uh, known as, um, Let me think, polydactylism or polydactyly.
It's extremely rare, but apparently sometimes you get a gene which sets in certain tribes in some remote part of, I don't know, South America or...
Uh, somewhere or other.
You might find that this is much more common than it is in the world at large.
I've never seen anyone with six fingers, but there was a Queen of England who had six fingers, that was Anne Boleyn, and she had six fingers on just one hand.
But to have six fingers and six toes all around, I think is extremely rare.
And another thing about this is that there are, apparently there are two autopsies here.
And they show two similar but different creatures being autopsied.
And again, the other one has six fingers, six toes, and is entirely similar to the first one, but truly a different creature.
So, if this is a hoax or some completely fraudulent footage, where on earth have the perpetrators obtained these creatures?
One suggestion, of course, is that Maybe these are adopted corpses and somebody's maybe thrown on additional tickets or altered the head by some kind of plastic surgery to look much larger than it should be and that this is otherwise a normal human corpse.
The pathologist didn't think so.
He saw no external signs of any fluctuating of this kind.
And when you see a close-up on the foot especially, Art, it is definitely like looking at fully integrated foot, except there are six distinct toes.
Linda, are these photographs of reasonable quality?
They're very high quality, actually.
George has two very good photographs that Ray Finchley gave him of the foot and another of, I believe it was the head.
We also have what we were describing in the six photographs that were shown here at MUFON.
They were actually taken from apparently documentary footage that's being prepared by M4 in England, right?
Channel 4.
Channel 4 in England for release I believe in August and this was a
It's beginning to sound a little exciting.
Linda, I know you.
and then put out in the computer scanned images and that was part of what you were showing
today.
Alright, it's beginning to sound a little exciting.
Linda, I know you, we've talked to you now for years and I would like you to now break
out a little bit and give me, I mean you're sitting there looking at the photos.
Right.
I haven't.
What is your assessment?
Well, I am puzzled because as George said, I don't have the feeling that I'm looking at a mannequin.
It does have the whatever one has an intuitive sense of looking at something in photographs as we humans are used to looking at things.
It does have at least that intuitive sense of some kind of an actual body.
What I think I am especially struck by, my very first reaction was, This, whatever it is, this humanoid does not look like a single drawing, a single description from the abduction literature, from so-called military and intelligence civilian weeks.
The descriptions that have ranged from the small greys with the thin long arms, to the taller greys, to the so-called reptilian insect, tall humanoids that have hair or don't have hair.
This is different and yet, The eyes.
George saw clearly in the film in London that the surgeon lifted away from the two eyes a dark membrane and those eyes are very large and they would be considered to be a solid black very large eye if you encountered them with the membrane.
One interesting point and George you should address this.
If I understand it the surgeon seemed to It almost implied the surgeon may have already known that this was something that could be listed off.
It looked to me, he did it, he tried for a swift flick and he'd remove that membrane which filled up into a dish of fluid.
It looked to me as if he'd been doing this before.
There were no false moves.
Well, there's no way to know that this was the first, second, third or fourth alien body they might have autopsied.
Exactly, exactly, Art.
And one of the things that keeps coming to me is the information of a variety that suggests
that there were many other crashes that our government had been dealing with prior to
1947, that for some reason, someone somewhere seems to be trying to draw the line at 1947,
even though there's an increasing amount of information that things were happening before
July at least.
And in this film, George, isn't it true that the date for this particular autopsy seems
to relate to a being that was taken somewhere in June, not July?
Well, apparently, according to the... I can give you the whole story behind the film and where it purportedly came from.
And the man who entered Mr. Santilli is still in contact and has met on many occasions the cameraman who allegedly took this footage in New Mexico in 1947.
And, um, the story is similar to the Russell story that we know, but it's different in several respects.
Just get back one moment to the, to the corpse.
During the autopsy, I have a line here from the, um, from the pathologist's report, saying that, um, what appeared to be the membrane covering the brain were chain being cut, the brain being removed.
However, the appearances were not those of a human brain.
This is England's leading pathologist speaking.
And the color of the mask taken from the skull appeared very dark on the film, where human brain tissue would appear white.
That's right.
Gee, we seem to go up and down and up and down on this thing.
First, people seem to be leaning toward it as a fraud, but after listening to the two of you this evening, it sounds like... Well, it sounds like...
We should keep an open mind.
Yes, I can't say for certain that this is genuine, but when I first saw it I was extremely skeptical and I had all sorts of objections and misgivings about its origins, about Mr. Santilli himself, his company, his motives.
There's that and the other several possible anachronisms in the film, like the phone hanging on the wall I thought was probably not available in the 1940s.
The curly phone Is there any more news on that?
Yes, it is definitely consistent with what military had available in the 40s.
Curly phone cords were used.
Okay, I'll try it.
Alright, well that removes one large one.
Plus, we've got to imagine No.
uh... it could be authentic film uh... and mister sandily could be playing it
for all it's worth and frankly an awful lot of people if they have their hands
on that film would play it for all it's worth so that doesn't surprise
me uh... well uh...
he certainly has uh... played it for all it's worth and he's got
deals going now with channel 4 television in britain and he's going to be showing a documentary which includes
much of the footage in Britain and France, Germany and Italy and I think he's
quite pleased.
He's in quite a good position financially now as regards what he paid out initially on the film which is reported to have been a hundred thousand bucks.
But at the same time he is approaching experts to get the He's certainly approaching experts.
I mean, he doesn't seem to be afraid of the experts.
He says, OK, I can't be 100% certain it's genuine, but I'm going to put it in front of the appropriate experts who can authenticate it and verify that we are dealing with the right thing.
And I believe I can.
Now, the big question, what about those photographs?
Are they proprietary?
Is there a chance you could get them to us?
Could they appear on the Internet?
Is there any way people can see them?
Well they are, they are in fact on the internet and I'm not quite sure, um, nothing very expert in these things.
I'm not quite sure whereabouts on the internet they are.
But I'm not sure that, um, Fox, uh, We all know that information is what it's all about and for those of you who like looking over the edge, well I've got some really hot news for you.
like what some of the people are going to have to do hold on just a moment
i'll be right back to you we all know that information is what it's all about
and for those of you who like looking over the edge well i've got some really
hot news for you it's called you for facts world report and it's a hot
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The latest hard data on UFO sightings, encounters, abductions, and more.
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Alright, we've got a moment just before the bottom of the hour and rather than go back to Seattle, I'll hold them
through the break and we'll go back to them and wrap this up.
Let me take just one moment to again welcome our brand new affiliate, KSTP AM in Minneapolis, St.
Paul, Minnesota, 50,000 big watts on 1500.
50,000 big watts on 1500.
Now, also we've got a bulletin board service up, and I wanted to let you know that we've
got a lot of new stuff this weekend on the bulletin board.
A lot of new goodies, so if you'd like to call our bulletin board, here is the number.
Area code 702-727-1709.
Once again, the bulletin board service with all the materials from Dreamland and Coast at 1, area code 702-727-1709.
Once again, the bulletin board service with all the materials from Dreamland and Coast
at 1-702-727-1709.
We'll be right back.
This Hour of Art Mail was recorded for rebroadcast at this time.
Please do not call.
Call Art Bell toll free.
West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
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1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
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Welcome back, everybody, to Dreamland.
I am Art Bell.
We'll get to the poem shortly.
I think you ought to know who you're listening to, those of you who are new to the program.
Linda Howe, worldwide, is, I think, generally acknowledged to be the world's expert on crop circles and animal mutilations and things of that sort and toward that end just before we go back to her she has a lot of materials available so listen to this about Linda Howe
If you enjoy Dreamland's weekly news segments by Linda Moulton Howe, which features updates about mysterious phenomena, then you might want to know more about her books and documentaries.
Linda Howe is an Emmy Award-winning television producer, writer, and researcher of Earth mysteries linked to non-human intelligences.
Her books and videos provide scientific data and first-hand eyewitnesses.
Linda Moulton Howe's two books, An Alien Harvest and Glimpses of Other Realities, are acclaimed for their quality, depth, photographs, and drawings.
If you are interested in learning more about the mysterious animal mutilations, crop circles, UFO sightings, the human abduction syndrome, and government knowledge about these worldwide phenomena, You will enjoy these books and videos available directly from LMH Productions.
You can dial 1-800-707-9993 to order.
That's 1-800-707-9993.
And now back to the lady herself.
Call 1-800-707-9993 to order.
That's 1-800-707-9993.
And now back to the lady herself.
Lindy, you there?
Can you hear us?
I hear you just fine.
All right.
Well, one of the things I think that George Wingfield and I would like to let the Dreamland viewers know is that there's always a distinct possibility that the film and the photographs are a desperate effort on somebody's part to discredit Roswell.
That's always been a possibility and we've talked about that on Dreamland and we have talked about the issue Why is it that anyone working for the United States government in 1947 on something as sensitive as an autopsy of a non-human being taken out of an unknown craft from someplace else in the universe, why would they ever be allowed to have any copies of any film?
George Wingfield, who is with me, has talked with Ray Santelli, who purchased this film, about the photographer, and I think it's worth our hearing some comments.
George?
Yeah.
The photographer, the cameraman who took this footage back in 1947, supposedly, is absolutely key to this.
And of course he hasn't come forward into public view.
We have an idea of what he's called, but I won't give a name.
We know that he's roughly 80 years old and he lives in the United States.
And two years ago he wanted to raise some money and he offered this film to Miss Santilli.
The circumstances were rather peculiar.
Miss Santilli was in the States trying to purchase early footage of Elvis Presley's film.
Uh, which he succeeded in doing, from the very same man.
And, uh, this is the story we've heard.
There's a lot of verification that's needed here, and it's all very recent, and I haven't even seen the Elvis footage, but I'm sure that that was purchased, and that is included in some segment of some video or something which they've put out.
OK, so the cameraman having sold the Elvis footage, which update from about 1960 I would imagine, He calls up Santilli, who's still staying in his hotel near the airport, wherever this is, and says, I've got something else which might interest you.
And he shows this footage, this 9.7 footage, to Santilli, who is apparently amazed and says, well, what is all this about?
I simply don't understand.
Because Santilli's not a person who knows anything about UFOs or Roswell or anything.
And when it gradually dawns on him that there is something of value here, He's what he tells us.
He determines he'll try to buy it, but negotiations take quite a time, over a year, and he hasn't got the money, and he has to borrow money from a colleague, and eventually this leads up to the purchase in last November of the footage.
And George isn't it true that the photographer explained to Santilli that he had only this Not given over to the military because he did not think the quality was high enough.
That's correct.
The cameraman says that he went to the military in the 1940s, and in June of 1947, this is a month earlier than is generally supposed, he was called, he was sent from Washington, D.C.
down to Roswell to take part in a clear-up operation, which was to clear up the debris of the crashed flying disc, And also, it's made of type.
It involves the recovery of alien bodies, which is essentially an autopsy in a military hospital in Dallas, Texas.
And he took several hours of film footage.
16mm film.
This is 16mm film.
He took probably 5 or 6 hours.
And most of it, he developed himself.
submitted to his superiors which is what they wanted and uh they got what they wanted but
there's quite a lot of footage left behind at the end of it in fact about 90 minutes worth
so then this footage uh that we now have is what was left over rather than extra copies that he
made that is what i understand i hope i have that correct i mean i'm working on this the whole time
and i'm trying to uh make sure that the story i'm being told is consistent and whenever i can i'm
trying to check what i'm told or cross check it with other people and cross check it in some way
It's not always very easy, especially if I don't have access.
All right, well, I want to ask the both of you a question now.
Obviously, these photographs have probably made the round at the MUFON conference up there, and there are a lot of experts.
What is the general reception Very confused and puzzled.
I would say that everyone from Michael Schwartz to others who either share a medical background or an academic background, at least in the conversations with me, they have universally said this is extremely puzzling.
If this was to be a so-called hoax, why would a body that is being autopsied last 20 years, these gray thin-arm things.
That's true.
Why is it that this first release of something that purports to be 16mm film and photographs
of a non-human being from a crashed disc and retrieval somewhere in the summer of 2016
of 47, in this case it seems to be June, not July.
Why would it not look like anything that anybody else has ever described?
This is very, very puzzling if it is even supposed to be a hope.
It is.
Alright, well we've got to go, but I want to thank both of you for the update.
And without having been at MoveOn, you have given us the best word picture we could possibly
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Yeah, it's definitely the conversation.
We left a panel discussion in which a whole bunch of us were in discussions, and we carried it right on into Dreamland.
Excellent.
Linda, thank you.
Next week, back home?
Yeah, I'll be back in Philadelphia with a very interesting update on that Bigfoot screen story.
I'm looking forward to that.
In fact, I want to hear it again.
All right, I will play it again.
Thank you both, and good night.
Thank you.
All right, there you've got it.
There is the update from the big move-on conference going on up in Seattle.
Armed with new footage.
Now listen, all you web crawlers out there, if somebody manages to get any of these photographs on the web, do one of two things, please.
Either upload them to our bulletin board system, or send them to me.
My email address, you can attach them to email and I'll get them to the board.
My email address is Art Bell.
At AOL.com.
That's ARTBELL at AOL.com.
Put no space between the ART and the BELL if you're elsewhere on the network rather than on AOL.
Alright, in a moment, Greg Long.
Now, here's a man who has investigated, researched, and written about the UFO phenomenon for 19 years.
He is, in fact, a field investigator for the Mutual UFO Network, or MUFON.
And the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies.
Like many people of his generation, he grew up with the subject of UFOs.
Throughout the 50s, 60s, UFOs were a regular staple of newspaper, TV, and radio accounts.
Frequently joked about.
Disappointed with the outcome of the Condon Committee's study of UFOs at the University of Boulder, Colorado in 1969, the UFO subject faded from his mind until 1975.
Coming back from overseas after about two years, Long discovered there was a major flap of UFO sightings that had occurred while he was gone.
So, renewed interest, Long began investigating and researching UFOs in earnest.
In 1980, he interviewed Kenneth Arnold in Boise, Idaho.
Arnold's sighting of nine UFOs over the Cascades in Washington State on June 24, 1947, was the seminal event that ushered in the modern era of UFO sightings.
Shortly thereafter, long focused on 20 years of documented UFO sightings, And on, and we'll hear a lot about this, the Yakima Indian Reservation in Washington State.
In 1990, the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies published a long study of those sightings.
The book is examining the Earth Light Theory.
The Yakima UFO microcosm presents and analyzes nearly 200 UFO reports and accounts, substantiated by photography and multiple witness observation.
And by the way, in his book, he's got quite a number of these photographs of what appear to be orange balls of light.
I guess that's the only way I can put it.
Accompanied, by the way, by sounds which we have a short recording of.
I think you're going to find that fascinating.
And, um, also there is a relationship to earthquakes.
All of that and more with Greg Wong from, I believe, up in Oregon in just a moment.
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Can't pick them up on a scanner.
No way.
It's just so much white noise and... It's just... Every aspect of this phone is better.
Except the price.
It's not cheap.
But good things rarely are.
So, if you're fed up with what you've got and you want a real portable telephone, I suggest you call Bob Crane at 730 in the morning at 1-800-522-8863.
1-800-522-8863.
Let's find out where in Oregon Greg is.
1-800-522-8863. 1-800-522-8863. Let's find out where in Oregon Greg is. Greg, welcome to Dreamland.
Good evening, Art. Glad to hear your voice. Good to be here.
Still, I check on a daily basis, but I seem to still be here.
Greg, you have been researching primarily in one area, haven't you?
Yeah, that's right.
And it involves, when you say orange UFOs, is one way you put it, are they orange craft, do you believe, or orange The balls of light or energy or what do you think it is you're studying?
Well, the way to answer that question is to step back and look at the history of UFO sightings in the modern era and look at the amount of data that's been gathered over this near 50-year period.
You know, currently the Center for UFO Studies has over 200,000 reports.
The MUFON UFO network has likely as many, and of course private investigators have their
own files and we have files of information in other countries.
There is a massive body of data to be analyzed and the UFO subject is really very complex
and varied and if you look at the data just doing a broad survey you'll notice that we
have different shapes of objects, not only objects that are lights but objects that look
like craft or technological machines.
Yes.
What I'm interested in doing is taking one portion of this data and trying to find an answer to what that particular object might be.
In the body of literature there is a consistent pattern of observations and reports and photographs
of an object that is described as a sphere or a ball of light.
I was very much attracted to pursuing this line of inquiry because of a number of sightings
that I was aware of on the Yakima Indian Reservation.
The Indian Reservation is located just to the east of the Cascade Mountains, actually
the foothills of the Cascade Mountains.
And it was over those mountains that Kenneth Arnold did observe nine objects on June 22,
Kenneth Arnold was a pilot.
He was a pilot.
He was a private businessman that did his business by air.
He was selling and installing firefighting equipment in the Pacific Northwest.
And on this particular day, he was interested in trying to find a downed military transport plane, a C-47 that had crashed there on Mount Lanier.
And on this particular day, he was looking for it.
There was a reward.
I think it was a $500 reward.
And he happened to see these nine objects.
Of course, at that time, people did not have any concept of what flying saucers, as they were then called, soon called, were.
But he went ahead and reported what he saw as a patriotic American, and of course this created a tremendous sensation across the country and the world.
Now bear in mind everybody, this is 1947, right?
Yeah, that's right.
This predates the Roswell events by several weeks.
But this area of the country, the Pacific Northwest, is very interesting because not only of Kenneth Arnold sightings, but because of a tremendous wave of sightings that occurred during that time period over the next four to six weeks.
Hundreds and hundreds of sightings occurred up in this area and were documented Uh, very, uh, carefully by Ted Blocher in a book called the, uh, UFO Report of 1947.
Um, but at the foothills of the Cascades, there is the Yakima Indian Reservation.
That's over a million, um, uh, acres of land, which are held by the Yakimas and the Kwikitas and some other Indian, uh, tribes.
Mm-hmm.
Since the Indian Wars of the 1840s.
And I had moved to the Tri-Cities in eastern Washington and I read a newspaper report in 1978 about sightings that had been going on up there and there were objects that were being photographed by the local fire control officer Bill Vogel.
And I decided that this was an opportunity to really dig into something that was close to home.
It was in my own backyard.
Sure.
And so I went up and met Bill Vogel and began looking into his reports and looking at his photographs and consistently what was being shown over and over again in his slides ...was this particular object, which was a sphere, usually orange or reddish-orange in color.
And there were so many of these photographs that he had taken, and he was a very solid, level-headed man.
He was, as I said, the fire control officer.
He was employed by the U.S.
government and the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
So, in other words, he was kind of up on top of a hill or a mountain, overlooking a large area of forest and looking for fires.
I mean, that's why he was there, right?
Well, that's right.
What he had is he had a network of observers.
Actually, he was based down in Toppenish, which is down there in the middle of the reservation, but his fire lookouts would travel up to a number of peaks.
Uh, 3,000 to 4,000, 5,000 foot high peaks, and these peaks overlook the Indian lands there.
Much of the Indian reservation is heavily forested, and then, of course, during the summer, there's the tendency for fires in the Pacific Northwest due to the timber and forest up here.
Sure, and you've got a photograph of one of the stations.
Is it Sopelia?
Yeah, Sopelia.
Yeah, Sopelia Lookout Station, yeah.
Right.
So, it was that kind of station where these photographs were taken?
Well, one of the photographs was taken by a fire lookout from Thetis Peak Lookout Station.
It was a daylight photograph.
I think you can see that in the book.
Yes.
There were other photographs that were taken actually on the valley floor there by Bill Vogel and also by an electrical engineer from Seattle named David Akers.
David Akers was asked to go out to the reservation by J. Allen Hynek.
And to actually do a stakeout or set up an observation post at various places on the reservation and look for these things.
And David Akers himself also managed to observe them and photograph them.
So here we have photographs by actually three photographers.
We had observations by David Akers, by Bill Vogel, by the fire lookouts, and also by ranchers and police there on the reservation.
So it was evident to me Uh, in looking at this, uh, data on a preliminary basis along with Vogel, that indeed there was something physically real here.
Uh, something that could be studied and analyzed.
What did they think they were seeing?
Well, they really had no idea.
Uh, actually a lot of these reports began filtering into Bill Vogel in the late 1960s.
When he first heard of these reports, he was a bit skeptical.
But being an official and being responsible for his fire network, he had to certainly keep an open mind about it and record what he had been hearing.
It wasn't until September of 1971, when he was actually patrolling, looking for possible fires after a lightning storm, that he became, I guess what you might call a believer, because at that time, He saw a teardrop-shaped object, a very bright luminescent object with what he called a rat's tail, which was hanging off the upper end of it, which had flashing multicolored lights on it, and he succeeded in actually photographing it, and watched it slowly traverse Highway 22 to the south over a period of about 30 minutes, and he concluded, because it was soundless and because of its shape,
Uh, that this was not any known aircraft or phenomenon that he was familiar with.
So at that point, he became much more interested and much more open-minded about what his far lookouts were bringing to him, as far as reports went.
So all of this at this point, uh, with a number of reports in the photographs, and I've got them here in your book, uh, began to seem like something of substance.
Yeah, that's right, exactly.
And at that point, we will pick up the story when we come back from the news.
We're gonna break here at the top of the hour for the news.
You're listening to a program which is a bit different.
You'll discover that as it continues.
It's called Greenland Sunday Evenings.
I'm Mark Bell.
We deal with topics that a lot of other people wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole.
And then again, that's why we do it.
We'll be right back.
Welcome to the World of Tanks!
Yes.
Good.
Alright, so from the original 47 sightings to the Indian Reservation to more investigation and more interest and photographs and so where are we?
Well, the activity on the reservation that was recorded by Bill Vogel and his fire lookout and others It was very, very intense during the 1970s.
the 1970s. Starting in the late 1960s and picking up and increasing through 1972, 1975, 76, UFOs
became almost a nightly affair on the reservation. The amount of documentation that Bill Vogel has,
which was substantial, doesn't come to reflect the number of sightings that were there.
When I went up to the reservation studying this year after year, I had so many leads to follow, I could never possibly pursue all of them.
I once thought what I really needed was about a half a dozen researchers and a few full-time secretaries to keep track of it.
There's something very unique, something very special about this place in Washington State.
The connection between Arnold sighting and these sightings, I'm not certain what it is beyond the fact that they were both very close in geographic space.
Um, but where we are today is activity still continues to go on there.
I'm in contact with an investigator there now who's looking into some current sightings.
But it's not as intense as it was.
Now the question is why was it so intense and why has it tapered off?
What I tried to do after amassing all this evidence was try to find patterns and try to find some kind of theory, some kind of hypothesis that we could test with the data as well as with physics to try to determine exactly what was going on.
Your earlier question that you posed to me was, you know, are these balls of light a
natural phenomenon or are they a technological device of some type?
Right.
So the tectonic strain theory of UFOs, which is the theory that I test in this book, was
something that I took a very close look at.
It's probably worth trying to explain that.
The Pacific Northwest is an earthquake-prone part of the country.
I'm sure your listeners are familiar with Mount St.
Helens, Mount Rainier, Mount Adams.
The whole Cascade Mountain Range is a result of major volcanic activity going back eons of time.
And we're on what is called the Ring of Fire.
And earthquakes are prevalent up here.
In fact, there's a lot of them that are beginning to occur in Oregon.
There's more activity going on today than there was a few years ago.
Doc, let me stop you there, Greg.
I don't know if you have studied it, but I have several studies purporting to show that the number of six-point-plus earthquakes over the last many decades has increased at an alarming rate.
An alarming rate.
And of course I've had Gordon Michael Scallion on and others who have talked about the earthquake activity and what has occurred, what they have predicted and what has come true.
And there's a lot of activity going on.
There's also a current large UFO flop going on.
Oh, is that right?
Oh yes, yes.
And the quake reports hit me daily.
So, are you suggesting And can you document a connection?
Well, the tectonic strain theory of UFOs, let's take a look at that, and that way I can answer your question.
As humans, what we really are are very, very small beings that live on a thin crustal skin on planet Earth.
When the Earth is 8,000 miles in diameter and out of those 8,000 miles, only 25 miles
of that distance is composed of what we really call the surface of the Earth, the rock that
we live on.
This rock is really composed of plates.
These plates are moving under pressure caused by subterranean forces, by liquid magma, which
is boiling beneath us.
When these plates move up against each other and slip suddenly, of course we have an earthquake.
The Yakima Indian Reservation, as it turns out, is actually heavily faulted.
There are signs of earthquake activity going on there today, and there was low-level earthquake activity going on during the 1970s.
Mount St.
Helens is about 180-200 miles to the southwest.
Again, we have the cascade.
So I took a look at this theory, which has really been promulgated by Michael Persinger
in Canada, and also supported by John Durer with the U.S.
Geological Survey.
And what it says is that in earthquake prone areas, there is a buildup of pressure that
is eliciting some kind of energy, which is ionizing the Earth's atmosphere above the
surface of the Earth and forming a ball.
And then this ball can move and appear to be intelligent in its activities as the energy column or energy stream beneath it moves along fault lines.
Alright, so you appear now to be arguing this is perhaps a natural phenomenon associated
with Earth or tectonic pressure.
Well, that indeed is a possibility.
What I've done since Yakima is I've extended my research out to look at data from other
sites, other states and other countries around the world.
And I'm also digging back into decades of sightings.
I'm going back to the 1940s and 50s and I'm working my way back to where we are today.
And there are some clear indications that there are certain geographic areas where there
is a clustering of earthquakes or earthquake faulting or signs of activity in the area
in these lights.
Now, one way to be able to prove that there is a connection between earthquakes and UFOs is to be able to have a database that's large enough to do that.
By pinpointing the geographic areas, we can go in and look at seismic activity that's gone on there over a spate of time.
We can take a look at UFOs that have been sighted there and see if there's any direct correlations between them.
Michael Persinger and John Doerr have done that with Yakima.
They feel that there is a strong statistical correlation of preponderance of data that shows that shortly before or after earthquakes, lights are seen.
And it's very compelling.
The problem is, is that mixed up with these balls of light on the Indian Reservation, there were also reports of Bigfoot.
There were also reports of what appear to be abductions, as we understand them.
There are also reports of encounters of humanoids.
And also beeping sounds and other kinds of strange noises.
Alright, well there's a good place to tell me.
I've got an audio recording here, a short audio recording.
How was this obtained?
This is a recording that was made by a UFO researcher named David Jacobson.
And in April of 1975, April 19th actually, he recorded this on the Tulalip Indian Reservation, which is just above Seattle, in the Puget Sound area.
I don't know all the details about it, except that there was something that was being heard up there.
Many years earlier, I think it was 1966 in Hooftal, Washington, there was a similar beeping sound that was heard that skeptics interpreted as being the sound of a soft, wet owl.
But he had recorded these and actually Bill Vogel had this recording and provided it to me.
Since this recording I have been in touch with another researcher who has acquired other recordings from other independent investigators and has had them all analyzed and has shown clearly that it's not an owl.
They do share the same frequency band and the similarities and they seem to be the
same sound. Now the interesting thing about this particular tape that you have
is that it was recorded in April of 1975 and at the same time in the same
month on the Yakima Indian Reservation which would have been several
hundred miles to the east, Bill Vogel was receiving reports of beeping sounds
and in fact I interviewed a witness on the reservation who himself had
heard these.
I found this extremely interesting, because here we have independent witnesses, we had a recording, and then most recently, as I mentioned, there have been some other recordings that have surfaced of the same sound, so it is real.
Yes, but it appears to be associated with something that he's seeing.
I mean, clearly, from what he said, He was seeing and he said an object
Well, I'm not certain whether he really saw an object, Art.
I think he might have only gotten part of the narrative.
He was attempting to find an object.
It was located somewhere above him in the trees.
They attempted to see it, but I don't believe actually they ever saw it.
All right, let's play it.
Let's let the audience decide for themselves.
It is an odd beeping sound.
The audio level was very low.
I hope you'll be able to hear it.
Here is the sound.
Again, the object is quite close by.
All right, that's it.
The object is quite close by, he said, and the compass is steady.
So, you're right.
He didn't really say that he was seeing an object.
That's right.
He was assuming that there was an object.
Now, let me just take a brief moment, if I could, Art.
I went through my files and I pulled out some representative samples of newspaper stories that were being published in the early 1970s around the country, which, interestingly, were reporting beeping sounds, which were associated with objects.
Here's one dated July 17, 1972, Elliot Lake, Ontario.
This is from the Espanola Standard, Ontario, Canada.
Three girls here heard a loud humming noise with an intermittent beeping sound coming from the area over the high school.
They also heard what sounded like magnified voices coming from something behind the high school.
They then saw a giant red ball about the size of a full moon, which is quite interesting.
Here's another report from the News American of Baltimore, Maryland, dated August 30, 1972.
On August 14, 1972, a young man named Greg Faltersack told police that he was driving along a country road.
He was surrounded by mist and woods when he saw something.
Uh, at that moment, the electrical system and his, uh, Plymouth went out, uh, and he heard, uh, a strange beeping noise.
Hmm.
Uh, here's another report from Centralia, Washington.
This is, uh, March 18th, 1971.
June Wadsworth, uh, observed a UFO in the sky.
It had multicolored red and green blinking lights and was emitting a strange beeping sound.
I have numerous accounts here.
I probably have at least two dozen of these.
And it's clear to me that in some cases there is an object associated with it.
And in many cases it is a ball of light.
So there seems to be something rather intriguing here that perhaps the balls of light are emitting a beeping sound.
They do affect automobile engines.
They do affect animals in some cases.
That would suggest a large electromagnetic field to affect an automobile.
Well, that's true.
That's true.
So, on the other hand, that would not necessarily be out of line with something that would be produced by pressure, I suppose, from the Earth.
Gee, this is all guesswork.
There are a lot of people talking about beings of light.
I'm sure you've heard that phrase a million times.
Any connection?
Well, you know, there's another report that I should mention to you, and it's The Interrupted Journey by John Fuller, which is an interesting chronicle of Betty and Barney Hill's, you know, famous abduction case.
Oh, yes.
You know, in preparing for your show, I went back and looked in here, and on page 123, there is the transcripts of the interviews that were held with Betty and Barney Hill, and at the close of their experience, When they left the scene, they saw a bright, huge ball, which was orange.
I'm quoting it right here.
It was a bright, huge ball, orange.
It was a beautiful, bright ball.
And as they were driving away, they heard a beeping sound, which seemed to be coming from behind their automobile.
So, it may be that the, you know, beeping sounds are being emitted by balls of light which are craft which are carrying beings.
So, the problem is putting all these pieces together and the only way to do it is to go to particular areas like Yakima or be able to gather enough data from disparate locations from independent observers.
Well, you've given us a lot of evidence suggesting both natural and unnatural.
You're the guy who has studied this for so long.
What is your best guess?
Well, my best guess is that we really don't have an answer, right?
I mean, I think that it's worth testing the tectonic strain theory of UFOs further.
That's my specific goal.
I now have amassed thousands of reports from newspaper sources and from investigators' files and articles.
There's enough data now that we can look at these cluster areas and look at the seismic records and see if we can see a direct correlation in time with objects and with earthquakes.
Michael Persinger's work is very, very compelling and very interesting.
The problem is with Yakima, he never really showed any direct correspondence in time between an earthquake and a ball of light.
That is, when an earthquake occurs, there should be a ball of light.
Well, he never found that.
He found an interesting pattern in which balls of light would appear about six months after a low-level earthquake.
They never could match the two together.
All right, Greg.
Hold it right there.
We'll be right back with you.
I know there will be a lot of people who will have reports for you.
People who have seen balls of light.
Or even beings of light.
Because we have had many, many, many such reports.
So it is an interesting area to look into.
And we'll do more of it in a moment.
You may think your home's your castle, but not if you've got...
...your own castle.
many minutes uh... get in touch with george wingfield who was on earlier
with uh... linda bolton how i know that he has some reports of all the light
and associated with those uh... there are some news clippings i have
years ago in which observers had reported some orange balls of light. That's fascinating.
There may be something going on there. That sort of opens a Pandora's box now. Not only
do we have earthquakes, but we have sometimes the Bigfoot associated with ball of light
sighting. We have abductions and now we have crop circles.
Bigfoot fascinates me. I've never been able to find an expert to have on the program and
talk about Bigfoot. Maybe you can fill us in a little bit.
Let's go to the phones again.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Greg Long.
Hi.
Yes.
Where are you, sir?
I'm in Lexington, Kentucky.
All right.
It's interesting that you happened to mention Bigfoot, because that was what my question was about.
Good.
Something that had occurred to me, and I'll try to make this brief, that you said there's been an association with Bigfoot and UFOs.
I've also heard in the literature that there's an association between UFOs and aliens genetically
altering human beings through the course of history.
What I'm wondering is you might pose to this guest and some of your other guests in the
future if they've ever considered that the human race where it would have been say thousands
of years ago is what Bigfoot is today and we're the new improved version.
All right, thank you.
All right, we're on Bigfoot, so let's stay there for a moment.
Are we an improved version of Bigfoot?
Is he some sort of relic of what we once were, or what?
Well, that's beyond me.
I'm not an anthropologist.
You know, Bigfoot up here in the Pacific Northwest, It has been observed, Bigfoot, in areas where UFOs have been seen.
At Yakima, for example.
I know at Estacada, Oregon, which is east of Portland, there have been sightings of UFOs as well as Bigfoot sightings, too.
Bigfoot was also heavily reported in Pennsylvania in the 1970s.
And that Bigfoot, though, was a much different variety.
It had fangs and glowing red eyes and extremely vicious and a very violent creature.
And it was observed in Rome, Ohio, for example, and Dennis Pelichas, who I'm not sure if he's active in the field anymore, but he had He had documented, right in his hometown, sightings of this bigfoot creature and UFOs that were operating over a farmer's property there.
You like sounds, Gray.
I'll tell you, Linda Moulton Howe, did you happen to hear, I think it was two weeks ago, she had the sound of something that sounded horrible.
I mean, it raised the hair on the back of your neck.
We're going to hear it again next week.
And it certainly could have been like the creature you just described.
It sounded awful.
I'd love to hear that.
You know, I have a recording as well that I might send you, Art.
I'll just send it to you later.
It's also a Bigfoot try-up in Sonomish, Washington.
Sonomish has historically been a very active area for Bigfoot.
But to answer your caller's question about whether Bigfoot is, or whether we are a successful genetic experiment, I guess you might say, I really don't know how to answer that.
Grover Krantz is someone you might want to invite here on your show.
He's been studying Bigfoot for 20 years.
He is an anthropologist at Washington State University, and has published a book called Bigfoot Prints.
He has done an excellent job in looking at plaster casts and hair samples and all the data that he has managed to gather over the last 20 years.
Oh, he would be very interesting.
Can you get me contact information for him?
Sure I can.
I certainly would be glad to do that.
There are some other people.
Give me some time to think about it and I can mention to you as well.
You might want to invite on your show to cover that subject.
I'm always interested and we're in a constant search for good people in these areas.
You're the first one I've ever had, Greg, that has researched balls of light for as long as you have.
And as I said, if this morphing business is accurate, then it's horrendously frustrating.
It must be for you to even consider such a thing.
Greg, we're at the top of the hour, so just relax.
We'll be back in about five minutes.
Okay.
All right.
Greg Long is my guest.
Investigator, author.
And there's more to come on Dreamland.
East.
Well, all right.
The Alpine air purification.
Back to the phones very quickly.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Greg Long.
Hi.
Hi, how you doing?
Okay, where are you?
My name is Jim and I'm in Mesa, Arizona.
All right, Jim.
I have two things relating to, I guess they're balls of light.
One was an instance where my wife and I and a friend of ours were driving in a car on Interstate 40 at like 2 in the morning and there was no other cars on the road.
We were in the desert in California approaching Arizona.
Yes.
And we seen up ahead what we thought was a truck coming The other direction on the highway.
And when we got closer, it wasn't a truck.
It was just one big light hovering over the highway.
It just was a round globe of bright light where you had to squint your eyes.
And it got to the point where we had to stop the car.
So we did stop, and then it just blinked out and disappeared.
The light had taken up three lanes of the highway.
It was just hovering in the air.
It wasn't moving any of it.
And it was in the desert.
There was no buildings or any reflection.
Interesting you would say that.
You say it just poofed out?
It just blanked out.
Just blanked out.
All right.
Yes, that is interesting, Art, because the balls of light that were observed on the Acomanian Reservation
were either hovering or moving slowly and typically went out like a light switch being thrown.
All right.
Let me read you this from Vincent in Kent, Washington.
Art, I lived in Yakima, 1973 to 83.
I operated the city of Yakima Senior Center from 73 to 75.
Some of the old timers told me about these balls of light.
The ones who saw them thought they were balls of flames.
Sometimes they would float over north, uh, float north over, I believe it's, uh, Antietam Ridge from the reservation.
Antietam, yes.
Antietam Ridge from the reservation to the city of Yakima.
Some said they saw them bounce on the ground and some just went poof!
And they went out like a candle going out.
Some thought they even started fires.
That's Vince and Kent.
Well, that's very interesting.
I hope I can talk to Vince.
I'd like to know more about what he knows.
Well, toward that end, I try to allow my guests to always do this, the ones who don't pipe up first.
I know you've got a book, and so tell them how to get your book, and if you would like.
Now, I caution my guests, because there's a lot of people out there, Greg.
I know.
If you would like to supply a phone number or an address for people to contact you, you are welcome to do so.
Well, let me do that, and I'll take what happens.
If anyone's interested in buying Examining the Earth-Like Theory, it does cost $19.95, and you can purchase it from the Center for UFO Studies.
The address is 2457 West Peterson Avenue, Chicago, Illinois, 60659.
I'll repeat that one more time.
Center for UFO Studies, 1995.
For the book, the address is 2457 West Peterson Avenue, Chicago, Illinois, 6-0-6-5-9.
You're right.
And I would like to hear from people.
I'll give you, your list is my address and phone number.
Okay.
But I'm looking for data and I'm sure there's people out there who have observed these things and perhaps even photographed them.
That's right.
My address is P.O.
Box 819 Delomas, Oregon and that's spelled T.H.
P-H-I-L-O-M-A-T-H, Philomath, Oregon, 97370.
I'll repeat it one more time.
P.O.
Box 819, Philomath, Oregon, spelled P-H-I-L-O-M-A-T-H, Oregon, 97370.
119, Delamuth, Oregon, spelled P-H-I-L-O-M-A-T-H, Oregon 97370.
My phone number is area 503-929-3550.
And I'm going to call you back.
And I'm going to call you back.
I'll repeat it one last time.
Area 5-0-3 9-2-9 3-5-5-7.
All right.
Well, that ought to do it.
Good luck.
I hope you like being on the phone.
I hope I can get some sleep.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Greg Wong.
Hi.
Hi.
I'm in Baton Rouge.
Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Yes, sir.
I lived in North Carolina back in the 80s, and there was a I think fairly well-known legend or set of stories about lights that dance through the hills and hollows in some part of the Piedmont or the Appalachians.
I wonder if you're familiar with that?
Well, I am familiar with spook lights and ghost lights.
A lot of those reports, which are of small balls of light, in this case we're talking about several inches to maybe a few feet in diameter.
...are reported from the Appalachian or Middle Southern, I guess, area of the state, as well as the Midwest, parts of the Midwest.
I can't pinpoint exact areas.
There are the brown mountain lights, I believe, in North Carolina, which is a famous locale for observations of these kinds of lights.
But there's a long, extensive body of literature on what are called spook lights or ghost lights, which I have some connection to folklore, although I'm not really convinced that it has anything to do with myth or legend.
I think they are real.
But typically they are small and they are often white in color or bluish or, again, orange in color.
But they don't seem to be related to the kind of things we're talking about here.
Well, they very well may be.
You know, when I got into the subject, I wrote to the U.S.
Geological Survey and I said, give me all you know about earthquake quality in the United States.
I got a map that's about four feet by two and a half feet in dimensions.
And the United States, remarkably, is very, very heavily faulted.
The only area of the United States that is not filled with faults is the upper Midwest portion of the United States.
The Appalachians and the Eastern Seaboard are heavily faulted, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of these things that are being observed in those areas are related to Earth life.
Well, and keep in mind, of course, that much of the seismic activity in the last couple hundred years Yeah, New Madrid, Charleston, you know, there have been some major quake faults up in the New England area too, like you say.
Much of what we see or have seen in recent history has been on the West Coast, but there's been a lot of that kind of activity.
There was recent activity in New England, there was recent activity of all places in South Dakota.
Oh, is that right?
Yes.
So, there is, thank you, there's all kinds of earthquake activity going on.
And there are a lot of people, and I don't know what weight you give to this, Greg, but there are a lot of people out there who feel something is getting ready to happen.
I know it's a very vague statement, but believe me, there are a lot of people that feel it.
Well, you know, there are a lot of precursors to earthquakes, and I'm sure you're familiar with what the Chinese are doing, using animals, fish and aquaria, and birds and small animals.
by which uh... the chinese have uh...
uh... small army if you will of people who do nothing but uh... watch these
animals behavior and often before major earthquake these animals will become uh...
uh...
frightened and frenzied and run around their cages and squawk and scream and everything else
and uh... it's not beyond uh...
comprehension that people have some sensitivity to changes in uh...
electromagnetic fields and vibrations in the earth and that kind of thing
You're darn right.
I happen to believe that for one.
It is interesting the balls of light appear, seemingly appear, after an earthquake and not before.
So they're not of much predictive value apparently.
Well, you know, the tectonic strain theory does call for the appearance of these before and after earthquakes.
Oh, before as well?
Oh yeah, before and after them as well.
I guess I should have qualified that earlier.
It's a lag time of about six to nine months, typically, which is what Persinger is talking
about, where these balls of light will be observed and then there is an earthquake.
We do know that there are earthquake lights.
This is well documented.
There was a flurry of earthquake activity in Japan in the 1960s and a number of photographs
were taken of glows of light which were emanating from the surface of the Earth.
These were typically described as being like an overturned bowl or a half circle of light.
There's been a lot of literature that's been compiled over the last 50 or 60 years.
There's a researcher that was named Galli in Italy who compiled a large catalog of observations of ball of light and luminescent kind of phenomena in Italy, which also is earthquake-prone.
Alright, back to east of the Rockies.
You're on the air with Greg Long.
Hi.
Hello?
Hello there.
Oh, I'm Anna from Springfield in Ohio.
I saw one of those orange balls about 12, 15 years ago, I don't recall.
I couldn't sleep one night.
I woke up out of a dead sleep.
And I come downstairs and was mad because I couldn't sleep.
Had more milk, went back upstairs and sat on the bed.
And I didn't have curtains up on my back side of my window.
And I saw this orange ball come real slow and then it stopped and it just went down to the ground.
There's a lake behind our home.
And one night I had one of those little grey guys standing by my bed.
And I went along at it and told it to get the hell out of here and it went.
Well, that's interesting.
You know, the balls of light again are, you know, we're trying to unravel this mystery of what's causing them.
As I said earlier, there seems to be an association between balls of light and the so-called encounter report.
You know, Ed Conroy, again looking through some of the literature, it's such a mess of this, but Ed Conroy worked for the San Antonio Express and wrote a book called Report on Communion, in which he looked at Whitley Strieber's accounts to try to provide validity for them, and he himself saw on Strieber's property when he was invited out there, a ball of light which was moving in an undulating fashion.
It had the appearance size of a golf ball and moved just above the trees.
So, there seems to be some compelling connection between balls of light and aliens, if you will, or the abduction scenario, what have you.
Alright, let's hold it right there for a second.
Greg Long is my guest.
I kind of like that lady's idea.
Some of the rest of you might bear it in mind.
Ever faced with a grey or an alien face-to-face?
She told him, get the hell out of here.
And it did.
That's probably worth remembering.
North American trading has done a very wonderful program.
Thank you.
I have never seen an alien ever.
I love your program.
I got hooked on this.
I'm only 15.
Well, I've never seen an alien either, so don't worry about it.
Never seen anything.
I did one day see a small ball of light a couple miles from my home.
Oh?
Floating just above the treetops.
It was very tiny.
You know, the only problem with balls of light in Florida and parts of the South is that the scientists are so easily able to say, swamp gas.
Is that not true, Greg?
Well, that's true.
But, you know, if you look at really what swamp gas is, it's a very diffuse chemiluminescent phenomenon.
It tends to be very diffuse and hazy and fuzzy.
So what did you see, sir?
Was it a distinct... Describe it.
Oh, well, it was just... Well, if I looked out my window, it was just right above the treetop.
And, well, I live, uh, very close to the water so we couldn't have been swamped out because I was, uh, not far from the ocean.
And it was, well, it looked very far away.
It was, uh, really tiny, small ball of wood.
And it was just, uh, it wasn't pulsing or flashing.
It was just solid light.
And then did it disappear?
Fly away?
Or how did it, uh, or did you just get tired of watching it?
Uh, well, I just kept watching it and suddenly just, it moved a little to the left, uh, did a little small triangular pattern and then took off to the south.
Took off?
Hmm.
Alright, uh, thank you.
See, um, that, that sounds like a craft to me.
That sounds much more like something capable of its own movement.
Yeah, that's true.
Again, that's why it's important to look at all these reports in the finer details, because some of these balls of light that are simply hovering in one place and going out, again, they suggest Back again for a second to the earthquakes, because I have a question.
the light form is going to vanish.
But objects that are hovering and shooting off at high speed or in some direction,
an angle up to the atmosphere, I don't think that can be accounted for by
an electromagnetic beam or column or something like that.
All right. Back again for a second to the earthquakes, because I have a question.
How deep is your database of information to suggest a correlation between the two?
Well, it's deep in the respect that there are many cases where these balls of light or other lights,
again, balls of light are really the signature that you're looking for in correlating lights with earthquakes.
But in some cases I have flashes of light and sparkles and bursts of light and that kind of thing.
But there is an interesting pattern where many of these balls of light are seen around mountains.
And, you know, mountains are caused by the upthrusting of rock from the Earth.
And that upthrusting is caused by plates that are moving one against the other one.
So, if you look at particular geographic areas and look at the landscape, look at the topography, and look at what is being observed there, there is, on the face of it at least, a correlation.
But the work has to be done in terms of going into the seismic database and looking at actual earthquake activity and looking at the appearance of the lights and when they happen.
That hasn't been done yet.
All right, good.
Thank you.
Greg Long is my guest.
He'll be back in just a moment.
Next week on Dreamland, Dr. James Lewis, author of The New Encyclopedia of Afterlife Beliefs and Phenomena.
That should be very interesting.
Next week on Dreamland, don't forget our bulletin board number.
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According to FBI statistics, over 26% of our home break-ins occur between Memorial Day and Labor Day.
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That means you need to...
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And when you go away, burglars go to work.
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From the Kingdom of Nine, we continue with your calls on Greenland with Art Bell.
Call Art Now, toll free at 1-800-618-8255.
1-800-618-TALK.
First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
702-727-1222.
Or the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
1-800-618-TALK. First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
727-1295.
702-727-1222. Or the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295. 727-1295 in the 702 area
code. Now again, here's our panel.
Thank you and welcome back.
Greg Long is my guest.
For 19 years, he's been researching balls of light.
And it's almost hard for me to imagine somebody spending that number of years on it, and yet so many have seen them.
So many of you have seen them.
Well, maybe I can understand it.
At any rate, back to him and a bunch of faxes here in a moment.
Uh, the Sea Crane Company has got GE Super 3 radios in.
And I'll tell you, uh, the Super Series of GE 3s, uh, I'm not gonna go through the whole history, but, uh, they are the most sensitive, uh, front-end AM radios, uh, that I think are sold any- anywhere.
They're just absolutely incredible.
The GE 3, when it first came out, was a big disappointment.
Everybody went, wow.
We thought it would be an improvement over the other great GE series, and it wasn't.
Well, they got recalled, and whatever was wrong, they fixed it.
And it is truly super.
It's a portable.
It operates on batteries, D-cells.
Um, just like the old Zenith, the trans-oceanic, or you can plug it into the wall and it comes with a plug actually attached to go right into the wall.
It's got a large speaker so the AM reproduction is superb.
It's got, um, Um, a large ferrite antenna, and I guess that's part of the reason it does so well on AM.
And of course, these sell out immediately.
And I mean immediately.
So, if you want one, you must be on the phone early in the morning, Monday morning.
I doubt they'll be... I bet they're all sold out by, oh, I don't know, 11 o'clock.
No later than.
They're $59.95.
And I'll tell you something, Bob Crane, I don't think he makes very much on these, or maybe he doesn't make anything at all.
The reason we sell them is because we want you to have good AM reception.
Actually, he better make a couple bucks on them, but I'll tell you, it's not, it's not, certainly not much.
This is near rock bottom, $59.95.
If you want one, Uh, and the phones are busy.
Try back after 10 a.m., but I'll tell you, get on it at 730 Pacific Time.
1-800-522-8863.
1-800-522-8863.
Hope you have that number written down.
Alright, back to Greg Long.
Greg, are you there?
Yes, I'm still here.
8863. Hope you have that number written down. All right, back to Greg Long. Greg, are you there?
Yes, I'm still here. All right. I grew up in Yakima. My dad, who was 56 years old when I was born,
mentioned seeing these balls of light several times while hunting the lower valley
well before I was born in 1949.
He thought little of them.
He simply referred to them as lightning balls.
No big deal to him or his hunting buddies.
So, apparently, a lot of people have seen these, but lightning balls, again, that requires Lightning, doesn't it?
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, we'd have to know what the weather conditions were at the time that this, uh, his father saw this.
Uh, you'd have to have lightning to have ball lightning.
So, uh, if the weather is clear, there has to be some other explanation.
All right.
Another one.
I've been listening to your guest, Greg, tonight, and it reminds me of a recent experience which may not be related.
About two months ago, I had a photograph taken of my aura.
Which showed, interestingly enough, an orange ball of light above my aura.
The photographer stated, so he's got this photograph and is willing to supply it.
He may upload it to my bulletin board service, I hope so.
Um, which is open 24 hours a day.
Uh, don't remove your face, uh, Pete.
He says he's going to remove his face.
That would take away from it.
It's area code 702-727-1709.
Open 24 hours a day.
So, you're also welcome, by the way, Greg.
Are you, uh, on computers and the internet?
That sort of thing?
Well, I'm not yet.
I want to be.
Well, I highly recommend it.
And I think you'll find that, you know, your ability to reach out and investigate will really be enhanced.
Yeah, that's right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Greg Long.
Hi.
Well, hello.
That was quick.
Well, good.
Where are you?
This is Dorothy Cohen from Liberal, Kansas.
Yes.
Excuse me.
I have three things to discuss.
Number one, approximately a year ago, July or August, Uh, New Lennox, Illinois.
Man and his wife coming home.
He is a scientist with a major government installation.
Uh, it had started to rain.
They had just come over a railroad track and they saw a blue light following them.
They thought it was a police car coming up on them, so he slowed down because he thought he was speeding.
And it, um, caught up with them and came into the car.
It went nowhere.
It just lit up the car, but it was a big blue ball of light.
Now, it was raining.
They came on to where I was.
They said they had come directly there.
The lights were off because there had been a northern explosion or something.
They said it hit a power transformer.
Now, they thought they had come directly, but that wasn't more than four minutes away from where they were.
But there was a good half hour to 45 minute time lapse from the time that blue light was in their car to the time they got to the house.
That's interesting.
But they didn't know that what they did was ball lightning with the blue.
This had followed them down the highway.
Well, there is a problem with something following an automobile.
Typically, ball lightning appears to be attracted to some metallic objects when they enter homes, and they usually explode with a very loud report.
In fact, they've been known to kill people when they explode.
There are accounts in the UFO literature of balls that do follow automobiles for miles and miles.
We've got a problem here, though, with the weather.
Certainly it's possible for ball light to enter into an automobile if there is some kind of crack between the window and the door or that kind of thing.
It'd have to be researched more.
The loss of time, that fits the missing time phenomenon with abductions.
At the same time, perhaps there's...
the automobile, although if they were driving and lost consciousness for 30 minutes, I would
tend to think they would have driven off the road.
Well, they thought they had just continued on their way, but when I reminded them when
the electric went off, there had been a good half hour to 45 minutes.
All right, thank you.
Greg, are there a lot of reports of disruptions of vehicles, operation, in other words, engines
stopping that sort of thing associated with the appearance of the balls.
I'm out.
You know, Mark Roddiger, who is the Scientific Director of the Center for UFO Studies, looked at that very question about vehicle interference, and he took a database of several hundred reports and looked at correlations between UFOs and car stoppages, you know, engines going out and that sort of thing.
He did notice that there was a subset of ball of light phenomena that seemed to be associated with that, but the preponderance of It's interesting because, Greg, I've been hearing reports lately that scientists have actually developed some sort of device that can produce an EMF-type pulse that can stop a car.
I mean, they're doing research so that, you know, police, instead of having a high-speed car chase, can point this at a car and stop the engine.
So, you know, it's not outrageous, apparently, that there would be this sort of energy possible.
No, certainly.
There's a famous case called the Val Johnson case, in which a sheriff's deputy in, I think it was Minnesota or Michigan, in the Uh, in the late 1970s, uh, saw a ball of light, which was suspended over a highway, and this thing came hurtling at him, and it struck his automobile, and he became unconscious for a period of time.
And the car was studied by the Center for UFO Studies, working with General Motors, and they looked at the windshield, and they bent antenna, and, uh, chips of paint that were burned off of the, uh, of the car, and that kind of thing.
And it certainly is possible that you can generate some kind of ball, or, or beam of energy, and disable, uh, you know, engines, and people.
That's really something.
I suppose that ball lightning, though, would have a great deal of EMF energy contained in it, wouldn't it?
Yes, it would.
So, boy, who knows.
Ease to the Rockies.
You're on the air with Greg Long.
Hi.
Hi.
Turn your radio off, if you would, for us, please, and tell us where you're calling from.
Columbia, Missouri.
Columbia, Missouri, aren't it?
Yes.
First of all, it's a great show.
Is there some way I can get hold of the theme music you use?
Oh, yeah.
It's Ray Lynch.
Ray Lynch does it.
It's called the O of Pleasure.
Like O-H.
O of Pleasure.
Okay.
All right.
Question for Greg Long.
Yes.
Or not a question.
You were talking about Ghost lights.
Back in the late 50s down around Carthage, Joplin, Missouri, they had some ghost lights out in the hinterlands.
Even had a little telescope set up you could put a quarter in and view them.
And we had a kid there in high school named Bill Underwood who made that his science project and he studied them and used very powerful refractive optics.
Yeah, I'm familiar with that study.
of the ghost lights and it turned out that they were made by headlights on a highway
some miles away. Yeah, I'm familiar with that study. The MARFA lights in Texas, people have
been looking at those as well and are looking at the idea that headlights are actually being
observed at some distance and being distorted through haze or simply distance and are being
resolved with the human eye as balls of light.
So there are some explanations for these things.
It might not explain everything.
Excuse me?
That might not explain everything, but... No, it would tend to explain some of these that tend to hover always over the same location and don't seem to ever be seen anywhere else, and it tends to suggest that there must be something that's repeating over and over again there.
A question.
If you were to compile and look at your database, what percentage Of the reports, would you classify as resolvable by natural phenomenon?
Well, you know, Art, the problem with that is not being able to do the seismic correlations yet.
There is, I guess, a fairly significant number of these objects that are reported that suggest to be something natural in respect That they are very short-lived.
They tend to move up from the ground.
For example, they look like they're coming up from behind the tree or promontory or ridge or something.
They hover for a period of time and they go out.
They aren't doing anything that you would associate with intelligent maneuver or surveillance or moving toward people or that kind of thing.
The ones that follow automobiles for a period of time, the ones that Uh, or dividing and merging together and entering other objects.
I have some cases where balls of light are ejected from other objects and descend to the ground or move toward the observer.
You know, that's another question.
I do think that there is probably a fairly significant body of UFO reports that are in the ball of light category that ultimately will be explained as being natural.
The problem, though, as we've mentioned throughout the show, is balls of light that are associated with craft-like objects or abductions or close encounters and that kind of thing.
All right, Greg.
Standby.
We'll be right back to you.
I saw one craft, ladies and gentlemen, one.
It was silent, triangular, about 150 feet above me.
There was no mistaking what it was.
It was not a ball of light.
It was a solid, Uh, very solid, very large object, not flying, but floating.
I was in the Air Force and I know what it takes for aerodynamic flight.
So, while there are balls of light, there are also craft, unmistakable craft, and there are a lot of mysteries up there.
Many of them simply not Explainable.
Totally inexplicable, and that is why we do this program, trying to get to the root of it.
We'll be right back.
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Back now to Greg Long.
Greg, are you there?
Yes, I am.
Have you been tempted, Greg, in your years of investigation, or maybe it's happened, I'm sure it has, from moving to an investigation of what seem to be lights or lights in the sky or balls or whatever they are, to so many reports of objects?
I asked that because of my own experience.
I mean, Greg, what I saw wasn't a ball of light.
There was no mistaking what it was.
Well, I mean, there was, but it was something.
It was either technology that we don't even hint at, that we have.
Or it was from somewhere else.
That's what I saw.
Yeah, I know what you're saying because they were looking at it.
One of them is lights, you know, lights in the sky and balls of light and that kind of thing.
And of course the structured objects and that sort of thing.
Yeah, I guess I would say I have been tempted in that it's hard to make a connection between the two.
And yet, in cases where balls might have been seen in concentrated areas like Yakima, there have also been, in some cases, structured objects that have been observed.
You know, in my study, I did uncover sightings that these car lookouts had of some silver-shaped cigars and disc-shaped objects.
And so, you have to ask yourself whether these are definitely two distinct phenomena.
One of them natural, and one of them that is manufactured, you know, either on this planet or from another one.
And it's very frustrating because when I hear of a fighting such as yourself and others
have of boomerangs and triangles and this kind of thing, you tend to want to think,
well, they must be manned by someone.
They must be from some other planet.
But if we're dealing with a phenomenon that at its source is energy and there is a capability
of disguise itself too, that's the kind of latest thinking that Wimpy Streber has.
You know, we have a phenomenon that is vastly more complex and much more frustrating, maybe impossible to explain.
Under the circumstances, manned might not be the right word.
Staffed.
Craig Long, where are you calling from please?
Pennsylvania.
Well, welcome.
Hello.
Uh, you're talking about, uh, ball lightning?
Well, uh, maybe.
Okay.
When I was 12, I stepped out on the porch of my uncle's house.
It was about 10 a.m.
in the morning.
And, uh, about two feet in front of me, this ball about the size of a basketball, made of what appeared to be some sort of electrical charge, just passed in front of me, scared the life out of me.
I ran in the house, came back out, and it was gone.
Well, you know that?
There you go.
See, that would be my reaction.
Ball of energy, right in front of me.
Goodbye.
Exactly.
I'm out of here.
And so you did that, and when you came back, it was gone.
It was absolutely silent.
No noise.
I never saw anything like it before or since.
What was its color?
White.
White.
And the edges had like a static Discharge appearance, like as if it were electric.
That's right.
Do you have any memory of what the weather was like?
It was clear.
It was clear.
Okay, that's interesting.
That's a good report.
Thank you.
We're so far out of time, Greg.
But I guess the reports... You know, on the other hand, I do understand why you're studying this.
It's such an incredible phenomenon.
And it's so widespread.
That story, I guess, is fairly typical.
Ball lightning?
Clear weather?
Energy?
What's your best guess?
Well, you put me on the spot, Art.
Well, you always save that for last, Greg.
You know, you put the guy on the spot.
Well, my conclusion after these many years of studying this is that, indeed, the phenomenon is real.
You know, we talk about technological devices, triangles and spacecraft and that kind of thing.
Remarkably, my research has uncovered a significant number of photographs of balls of light, not only in this country, but in other countries, such as the Hesselin sightings in Norway in the late 1980s, as an example.
There really is a lot of good photographic evidence.
So I have to conclude that balls of light, spheres of light, are real.
Definitely real.
I think there are some subcategories in which some of these things are... Define real for me.
Real, you mean... Well, they're made of matter.
That is, they're a form of energy.
We can see them, we can record them, not only on film but with our personal observational systems or visual systems.
They're there, they've been repeated all over this country and other countries independently of each other.
So indeed, it's real.
My conclusion is, as far as whether it's a UFO phenomenon or not, is that indeed it is a UFO phenomenon, in that we don't understand what it is.
It remains unidentified and unexplained.
In that case, it is a classic UFO.
Good enough.
Greg Long, give me your phone number very quickly, one time.
Okay, it's area 5039293557.
It has been a pleasure having you on the program.
Thank you, Greg.
Well, thank you very much.
I enjoyed it tremendously.
Good night.
Alright, if you would like a copy of this program, or any Dreamland program, or you would like to subscribe to our newsletter, the ArcBell After Dark newsletter, The number to call, uh, is 1-800-917-4278.
That's 1-800-917-4278.
24 hours a day, or don't forget our bulletin board system.
Lots of new stuff up there this weekend.
Uh, just put up there, this weekend.
Area code 702-727-1709.
Well, it's been another good one.
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