Linda Moulton Howe examines the Alien Autopsy film at MUFON’s Seattle convention, detailing a 1947 Roswell autopsy of two five-foot-tall humanoids with six digits and large eyes, confirmed as dead bodies by a London pathologist on May 5th. Ray Santilli’s company sold it for $100K, raising doubts about its authenticity despite the cameraman’s claims. Greg Long shifts focus to Yakima’s orange balls of light, linking them to seismic activity via tectonic strain theory, though some reports—like beeping sounds in April 1975—defy natural explanations. These phenomena, from fault-line lights to structured objects like Art Bell’s Air Force sighting, suggest an unidentified energy source, challenging conventional science and expanding UFO definitions beyond traditional "grays." [Automatically generated summary]
If you're just tuning in for the first time, and many of you out there are as the network continues to grow at an accelerated pace, you're in for a real treat.
This is a different kind of program.
We do it once a week.
We have a regular syndicated program, an all-night talk show, which I'm sure you'll get familiar with if you are not yet.
But Dreamland occurs but once a week, Sunday evening.
It examines, as the little billboard just said, two very important areas, two important questions for mankind.
Whether there is another life following this one, and we follow all kinds of avenues in trying to answer that question.
And whether we are being, have been, or will be visited from others.
And we'll touch on just about all of it, one way or the other, I'm sure, this evening.
First, way out in Seattle, Seattle, is Linda Howe.
And Linda is at the MUFON convention, a big contab going on up in the Seattle area, obviously of the big people in the UFO world.
And so since we have a reporter on the spot, that's where we'll go in just a moment.
That will be first.
Do you have scaling in your house, in your pipes, in your water heater, in everything you drink, in all of the water that you wash your clothes with, wash your car with?
Do you have scaling in there?
Well, it's easy to find out if you've got the guts to go check.
All you've got to do is go take the aerator off your faucet and look in there and see if you see white, crusty stuff.
Or for a real adventure, go ahead and look at the shower head and see if it's coated and clogged.
It has been an extraordinarily, I think, fruitful UFON conference, exploring both some of the more details of historic areas like the old Blue Book report up to the current day controversies around Roswell.
And in between, I have received new reports about crop circle formations in the United States, in Inman, Kansas, and Alva, Oklahoma, and new mutilation reports from Maple Valley, Washington, and Kansas City, Missouri, which I'll be reporting on in future Dreamland.
Right, and we also are sitting in a city where there's another 50,000 watt AM 1000 KOMO that's carrying Dreamland right now.
And this is one of these areas where we're always getting reports from lights to abductions to animal mutilations to the possible Bigfoot screens that we were discussing a month ago.
But this weekend, the subject that I think has captured everyone's imagination is what happened in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947.
And is there a factual basis for looking at the film that's going to be released concerning the controversial Ray Santilli Merlin Productions purchased 16 millimeter film that we have discussed on Dreamland with everybody from Stanton Friedman to many others, including Dan Silver, who saw that London screening.
With me right now is George Wingfield, who is from England, was here, and one hour ago presented to the 500 and some Bufon assembly approximately five black and white photographs of a being that is seen lying on some kind of a table.
There is no hair.
It is nude.
The head is much larger in proportion to a human head, but many other parts of this torso are human-like.
There are six distinct fingers on the hands, and there are six distinct toes on the foot.
The eyes are larger.
These appear to be photographs from the autopsy.
Now, having set this up and that these black and white photos in the film are extremely controversial, I would like to now go to George Wingfield, who is with me right here and who talked with Ray Centille in London just last Tuesday about this film and what Race and Tilly is trying to do to prove whether or not it is actually film of an autopsy of a non-human being taken
Where would you right now say is the very best argument for the veracity of this film, given the fact that Congressman Schiff and possibly other congressmen have been being shown this Ray Santilli film as recently as the last two weeks in Washington, D.C.?
unidentified
Well, there are several things about this film which are very curious to see, and we have to consider very carefully.
When the autopsy sequence was screened on May 5th in London, Ray Fantilly invited one of England's leading pathologists to view this and give an opinion on what he saw.
People have generated Ray Santilli and Deputy Charlotte Ford and everything else, but this only emerged later that he invited the pathologist along.
And this doesn't strike me as being the action of a guilty man he's trying to put across the scalp.
Now it's interesting to know what the pathologist actually thought of this autopsy sequence.
First of all, he thought we're definitely dealing with a dead body here.
We're not dealing with any kind of a plastic dummy or a cleverly contrived Hollywood dummy or something of this kind made to look like an alien.
Now, although it has a lot of human characteristics, it also does look very peculiar, as Linda has just described.
The figure is about five foot tall, which is not, you know, rather larger than we'd expect an alien grey to be, the traditional description.
It has a large head, but it's not that large.
It has very large eyes, which apparently had some kind of a dark membrane across them, which during the autopsy is scraped off into a bowl by the surgeon, who incidentally looks as if he's done this before.
There are various other features, like the six fingers and the six toes on each hand and foot.
May I ask a question to both or either one of you?
Is it uncommon in human beings for there to be six fingers, six toes?
Is that possible?
unidentified
It's possible.
It's extremely rare.
It's a condition known as, let me think, polydactylism or polydactyl.
It's extremely rare, but apparently sometimes you get a gene which sets in.
So in certain tribes in some remote part of, I don't know, South America or somewhere or other, you might find that this is much more common than it is in the world at large.
I've never seen anyone with six fingers, but there was a Queen of England who had six fingers.
That was Anne Boleyn, and she had six fingers on just one hand.
But to have six fingers, six toes, all around, I think is extremely rare.
And another thing about this is that apparently there are two autopsy sequences, and they show two similar but different creatures being autopsied.
And again, the other one has six fingers, six toes, and is entirely similar to the first one, but clearly a different creature.
So if this is a hoax or some completely fraudulent footage, where on earth have the perpetrators obtained these creatures?
One suggestion, of course, is that maybe these are doctored corpses and somebody's maybe sewn on additional digits or altered the head by some kind of plastic surgery to look much larger than it should be, and that this is otherwise a normal human corpse.
But the proposal just didn't think so.
He saw no external signs of any doctoring of this kind.
Well, I am puzzled because as George said, I don't have the feeling that I'm looking at a mannequin.
It does have the, whatever one has, an intuitive sense of looking at something in photographs as we humans are used to looking at things.
It does have at least that intuitive sense of some kind of an actual body.
What I think I am especially struck by, my very first reaction was, this, whatever it is, this humanoid, does not look like a single drawing, a single description from the abduction literature, from so-called military and intelligence civilian weeks,
the descriptions that have ranged from the small greys with the thin, long arms to the taller grays, to the so-called reptilian insect, tall humanoids that have hair or don't have hair.
This is different, and yet the eyes, George saw clearly in the film in London that the surgeon lifted away from the two eyes a dark membrane.
And those eyes are very large, and they would be considered to be a solid, black, very large eye if you encountered them with the membrane.
One interesting point, and George, you should address this.
If I understand it, the surgeon seemed to lift out this membrane with such swiftness that it almost implied the surgeon may have already known that this was something that could be lifted off.
unidentified
It looked to me, he did it each eyeball a swift flick, and he'd removed that membrane, which filled up into a dish of fluid.
It looked to me as if he'd been doing this before.
And one of the things that keeps coming to me is the information of a variety that suggests that there were many other crashes that our government had been dealing with prior to 1947.
That for some reason, someone somewhere seems to be trying to draw the line at 1947, even though there's an increasing amount of information that things were happening before July, at least.
And in this film, George, isn't it true that the date for this particular autopsy seems to relate to a being that was taken somewhere in June, not July?
unidentified
Well, apparently, according to the, I can give you the whole story behind the film and where it purportedly came from.
And the man who entered Mr. Santilli is still in contact and has met on many occasions the cameraman who allegedly took this footage in New Mexico in 1947.
And the story is similar to the Roswell story that we know, but it's different in several respects.
Just go back one moment to the corpse during the autopsy.
I have a line here from the pathologist's report saying that what appeared to be the membranes covering the brain were shown being cut and the brain being removed.
However, the appearances were not those of a human brain.
Gee, we seem to go up and down and up and down on this thing.
First, people seem to be leaning toward it as a fraud, but after listening to the two of you this evening, it sounds like, well, it sounds like...
unidentified
Yes, I can't say for certain that this is genuine, but when I first saw it, I was extremely skeptical, and I had all sorts of objections and misgivings about its origins and about Mr. Santilli himself, his company, his motives, this, that, and the other.
Several possible amachems in the film, like the phone hanging on the wall, I thought was probably not available in the 1940s.
But at the same time, he is approaching experts to get their verification about some things on this film.
unidentified
He's certainly approaching experts.
I mean, he doesn't seem to be afraid of the experts.
He says, okay, I can't be 100% certain it's genuine, but I'm going to put it in front of the appropriate experts who can authenticate it and to verify that we are dealing with the right thing.
We've got a moment just before the bottom of the hour, and rather than go back to Seattle, I'll hold them through the break, and we'll go back to them and wrap this up.
Let me take just one moment to again welcome our brand new affiliate, JSTP AM in Minneapolis, St. Paul, Minnesota.
50,000 big wants on 1,500.
Now, also, we've got a bulletin board service up, and I wanted to let you know that we've got a lot of new stuff this weekend on the bulletin board.
A lot of new goodies.
So if you'd like to call our bulletin board, here is the number.
Area code 702-727-1709.
Once again, the bulletin board service with all the materials from Dreamland and Coast at 1 Area Code 702-727-1709.
We'll be right back.
unidentified
We'll be right back.
This hour of Art Bell was recorded for rebroadcast at this time.
Linda Howe, worldwide, is, I think, generally acknowledged to be the world's expert on crop circles and animal mutilations and things of that sort.
And toward that end, just before we go back to her, she has a lot of materials available.
So listen to this about Linda Howe.
unidentified
If you enjoy Dreamland's weekly news segments by Linda Moulton Howe, which features updates about mysterious phenomena, then you might want to know more about her books and documentaries.
Linda Howe is an Emmy Award-winning television producer, writer, and researcher of Earth mysteries linked to non-human intelligences.
Her books and videos provide scientific data and first-hand eyewitnesses.
Linda Moulton Howe's two books, An Alien Harvest and Glimpses of Other Realities, are acclaimed for their quality, depth, photographs, and drawings.
If you are interested in learning more about the mysterious animal mutilations, crop circles, UFO sightings, the human abduction syndrome, and government knowledge about these worldwide phenomena, you will enjoy these books and videos available directly from LMH Productions.
Well, one of the things I think that George Wingfield and I would like to let the Dreamland, the viewers know is that there is always a distinct possibility that the film and the photographs are a desperate effort on somebody's part to dispredit Roswell.
That's always been a possibility, and we've talked about that on Dreamland, and we have talked about the issue of why is it that anyone working for the United States government in 1947 on something as sensitive as an autopsy of a non-human being taken out of an unknown craft from someplace else in the universe, why would they ever be allowed to have any copies of any film?
George Wingfield, who is with me, has talked with Ray Santelli, who purchased this film, about the photographer, and I think it's worth our hearing some comments.
George?
unidentified
Yeah, the photographer, the cameraman who took this footage back in 1947, supposedly, is absolutely key to this.
And of course, he hasn't come forward into public view.
We have an idea of what he's called, but I won't give a name.
We know that he's roughly 80 years old, and he lives in the United States.
And two years ago, he wanted to raise some money, and he offered this film to Mr. Santilli.
The circumstances were rather peculiar.
Santilli was in the States trying to purchase early footage of Elvis Presley film, which he succeeded in doing from the very same man.
And this is the story we've heard.
There's a lot of verification is needed here.
This is all very recent, and I haven't even seen the Elvis footage, but I'm assured that that was purchased, and that is included in some segment of some video or something which they've put out.
Okay, so the cameraman, having sold the Elvis footage, which must be from about 1960, I would imagine, calls up Santilli, who's still staying in his hotel near the airport, wherever this is, and says, I've got something else which might interest you.
And he shows this footage, this 9.7 footage, to Santilli, who is apparently amazed and says, well, what is all this about?
I simply don't understand.
Because Santilli's not a person who knows anything about UFOs or Brothers or anything.
And when it gradually dawns on him that there is something about it here, this is what he tells us, he determines he'll try to buy it.
But negotiations take quite a time, over a year, and he hasn't got the money and he has to borrow money from a colleague.
And eventually this leads up to the purchase in last November of the footage.
And George, isn't it the photographer, explained to Centilli that he had only distant pieces that he had not given over to the military because he did not think the quality was high enough?
unidentified
That's correct.
The cameraman says that he worked for the military in the 1940s.
And in June of 1947, this is a month earlier than is generally supposed, he was called, he was sent from Washington, D.C. down to Roswell to take part in a clear-up operation, which was to clear up the debris of the crashed flying disc.
And also, this involved, he didn't know at the time, it involved the recovery of alien bodies, which were subsequently autopsied in a military hospital in Dallas, Texas.
So then this footage that we now have is what was left over rather than extra copies that he made?
unidentified
That is what I understand.
I hope I have that correct.
I mean, I'm working on this the whole time, and I'm trying to make sure that the story I'm being told is consistent, and wherever I can, I'm trying to check what I'm told, or cross-check it with other people, and cross-check it in some way.
It's not always very easy, especially if I don't have access.
I would say that everyone from Michael Swords to others who either share a medical background or an academic background, at least in the conversations with me, they have universally said this is extremely puzzling.
If this was to be a so-called hoax, why would the body that is being autopsied match what we've all been conditioned to see over the last 20 years, these gray skin-arm things?
Why is it that this first release of something that purports to be 16-millimeter film and photographs of a non-human being from a crash disk in retrieval somewhere in the summer of 47, in this case it seems to be June, not July, why would it not look like anything that anybody else has ever described?
This is very, very puzzling if it is even supposed to be a hoax.
Yeah, it's definitely the conversation we left, a panel discussion in which a whole bunch of us were in discussions, and we carried it right on into Dreamland.
There is the update from the big MOFON conference going on up in Seattle, armed with new footage.
Now, listen, all you web crawlers out there, if somebody manages to get any of these photographs on the web, do one of two things, please.
Either upload them to our bulletin board system or send them to me.
My email address, you can attach them to email and I'll get them to the board.
My email address is artbell at aol.com.
That's artbell at aol.com.
Put no space between the art and the bell if you're elsewhere on the network rather than on AOL.
All right, in a moment, Greg Long.
Now, here's a man who has investigated, researched, and written about the UFO phenomenon for 19 years.
He is, in fact, a field investigator for the Mutual UFO Network, or MOVON, and the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies.
Like many people of his generation, he grew up with the subject of UFOs throughout the 50s, 60s.
UFOs were a regular staple of newspaper, TV, and radio accounts.
Frequently joked about.
Disappointed with the outcome of the Condon Committee's study of UFOs at the University of Boulder, Colorado in 1969, the UFO subject faded from his mind until 1975.
Coming back from overseas after about two years, Long discovered there was a major flap of UFO sightings that had occurred while he was gone.
So, renewed interest, Long began investigating and researching UFOs in earnest.
In 1980, he interviewed Kenneth Arnold in Boise, Idaho.
Arnold's sighting of nine UFOs over the Cascades in Washington state on June 24th, 1947, was the seminal event that ushered in the modern era of UFO sightings.
Shortly thereafter, long focused on 20 years of documented UFO sightings, and on, and we'll hear a lot about this, the Yakima Indian Reservation in Washington State.
In 1990, the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies published Long's study of those sightings.
The book is examining the Earth Light Theory.
The Yakima UFO microcosm presents and analyzes nearly 200 UFO reports and accounts substantiated by photography and multiple witness observation.
And by the way, in his book, he's got quite a number of these photographs of what appear to be orange balls of light.
I guess that's the only way I can put it.
Accompanied, by the way, by sounds, which we have a short recording of.
I think you're going to find that fascinating.
And also, there is a relationship to earthquakes.
All of that and more with Greg Wong from, I believe, up in Oregon in just a moment.
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Can't pick them up on a scanner.
No way.
It's just so much white noise.
And it's just every aspect of this phone is better.
Except the price.
It's not cheap.
But good things rarely are.
So if you're fed up with what you've got and you want a real portable telephone, I suggest you call Bob Crane at 7.30 in the morning at 1-800-522-8863.
Well, the way to answer that question is to step back and look at the history of UFO sightings in the modern era and look at the amount of data that's been gathered over this near 50-year period.
You know, currently the Center for UFO Studies has over 200,000 reports.
The Muthon UFO network has likely as many.
And, of course, private investigators have their own files, and we have files of information in other countries.
There is a massive body of data to be analyzed.
And the UFO subject is really very complex and varied.
And if you look at the data, just doing a broad survey, you'll notice that we have different shapes of objects.
Not only objects that are lights, but objects that look like craft, if you will, or technological machines.
What I'm interested in doing is taking one portion of this data and trying to find an answer to what that particular object might be.
And in the body of literature, there is a consistent pattern of observations and reports and photographs of an object that is described as a sphere or a ball of light.
And I was very much attracted to pursuing this line of inquiry because of a number of sightings that I was aware of on the Yakima Indian Reservation.
And the Indian Reservation is located just to the east of the Cascade Mountains, actually at the foothills of the Cascade Mountains.
And it was over those mountains that Kenneth Arnold did observe nine objects on June 24th, 1947.
This predates the Roswell events by several weeks.
But this area of the country, the Pacific Northwest, is very interesting because not only of Kenneth Arnold's sighting, but because of a tremendous wave of sightings that occurred during that time period over the next 46 weeks.
Hundreds and hundreds of sightings occurred up in this area and were documented very carefully by Ted Bloker in a book called the UFO Report of 1947.
But at the foothills of the Cascades, there is the Yakima Indian Reservation.
It's over a million acres of land, which are held by the Yakimas and the Clickatas and some other Indian tribes since the Indian Wars of the 1840s.
And I had moved to the Tri-Cities in eastern Washington and read a newspaper report in 1978 about sightings that had been going on up there, and there were objects that were being photographed by the local fire control officer Bill Vogel.
And I decided that this was an opportunity to really dig into something that was close to home.
It was in my own backyard.
And so I went up and met Bill Vogel and began looking into his reports and looking at his photographs.
And consistently, what was being shown over and over again in his life was this particular object, which was a sphere, usually orange or reddish-orange in color.
And there were so many of these photographs that he had taken, and he was a very solid, level-headed man.
He was, as I said, the fire control officer.
He was employed by the U.S. government and the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
Actually, he was based down in Topanish, which is down there in the middle of the reservation.
But his fire lookouts would travel up to a number of peaks, 3,000 to 4,000, 5,000-foot-high peaks, and these peaks overlook the Indian lands there.
Much of the Indian Reservation is heavily forested, and, of course, during the summer there's the tendency for fires in the Pacific Northwest through the river and forest up here.
There were other photographs that were taken actually on the valley floor there by Bill Vogel and also by an electrical engineer from Seattle named David Akers.
David Akers was asked to go out to the reservation by J. Allen Hynek and to actually do a stakeout or a set up an observation post at various places on the reservation and look for these things.
And David Akers himself also managed to observe them and photograph them.
So here we have photographs by actually three photographers.
We have observations by David Akers, by Bill Vogel, by the Park lookouts, and also by ranchers and policemen on the reservation.
So it was evident to me in looking at this data on a preliminary basis along with Vogel that indeed there was something physically real here, something that could be studied and analyzed.
Actually, a lot of these reports began filtering into Bill Vogel in the late 1960s.
When he first heard these reports, he was a bit skeptical.
But being an official and being responsible for his fire network, he had to certainly keep an open mind about it and record what he had been hearing.
It wasn't until September of 1971 when he was actually patrolling, looking for possible fires after a lightning storm, that he became, I guess, what you might call a believer, because at that time, he saw a teardrop-shaped object, a very bright luminescent object with what he called a rat's tail, which was hanging off the upper end of it, which had flashing multicolored lights on it.
And he succeeded in actually photographing it and watched it slowly traverse Highway 22 to the south over a period of about 30 minutes.
And he concluded, because it was soundless and because of its shape, that this was not any known aircraft or phenomenon that he was familiar with.
So at that point, he became much more interested and much more open-minded about what his fire lookouts were bringing to him as far as reports went.
So all of this at this point, with a number of reports in the photographs, and I've got them here in your book, began to seem like something of substance.
Well, the activity on the reservation that was recorded by Bill Vogel and his fire lookouts and others was very, very intense during the 1970s.
Starting in late 1960s and picking up and increasing through 1972, 1975, 1976, UFOs became almost a nightly affair on the reservation.
The amount of documentation that Bill Vogel has, which was substantial, doesn't come to reflect the number of sightings that were there.
When I went up to the reservation studying this year after year, I had so many leads to follow, I could never possibly pursue all of them.
In fact, I once thought what I really needed was about a half a dozen researchers and a few full-time secretaries to keep track of it.
There's something very unique, something very special about this place in Washington State.
The connection between Arnold's sighting and these sightings, I'm not certain what it is beyond the fact that they were both very close in geographic space.
But where we are today is activity still continues to go on there.
I'm in contact with an investigator there now who's looking into some current sightings.
But it's not as intense as it was.
Now the question is, why was it so intense and why has it tapered off?
What I tried to do after amassing all this evidence was try to find patterns and try to find some kind of theory, some kind of hypothesis that we could test with the data as well as with physics to try to determine exactly what was going on.
You know, your earlier question that you posed to me was: you know, are these balls of light a natural phenomenon or are they a technological device of some type?
So the tectonic strain theory of UFOs, which is the theory that I test in this book, was something that I took a very close look at.
It's probably worth trying to explain that.
The Pacific Northwest is an earthquake-prone part of the country.
I'm sure your listeners are familiar with Mount St. Helens, Mount Rainier, Mount Adams, the whole Cascade Mountain range is a result of major volcanic activity going back eons at that time.
And we're on what is called the ring of fire.
And earthquakes are prevalent up here.
In fact, there's a lot of them that are beginning to occur in Oregon.
There's more activity going on today than there was a few years ago.
I don't know if you have studied it, but I have several studies purporting to show that the number of six-point-plus earthquakes over the last many decades has increased at an alarming rate.
An alarming rate.
And, of course, I've had Gordon Michaels Gallion on and others who have talked about the earthquake activity and what has occurred, what they have predicted, and what has come true.
And there is a lot of activity going on.
There's also a current large UFO flop going on.
Oh, is that right?
Oh, yes, yes.
And the quake reports hit me daily.
So are you suggesting, and can you document, a connection?
These plates are moving under pressure caused by subterranean forces, by liquid magma, which is boiling beneath us.
And when these plates move up against each other and slip suddenly, of course we have an earthquake.
The Yakima Indian Reservation, as it turns out, is actually heavily faulted.
There are signs of earthquake activity going on there today, and there was low-level earthquake activity going on during the 1970s.
Mount St. Helens is about 180, 200 miles to the southwest.
Again, we have the Cascade.
So I took a look at this theory, which has really been promulgated by Michael Persinger in Canada and also supported by John Durer with the U.S. Geological Survey.
And what it says is that in earthquake-prone areas, there is a buildup of pressure that is eliciting some kind of energy, which is ionizing the Earth's atmosphere above the surface of the Earth and forming a ball.
And then this ball can move and appear to be intelligent in its activities as the energy column or energy stream beneath it moves along fault lines.
What I've done since Yakima is I've extended my research out to look at data from other sites, other states and other countries around the world.
And I'm also digging back into decades of sightings.
I'm going back to the 1940s and 50s and working my way back to where we are today.
And there are some clear indications that there are certain geographic areas where there is a clustering of earthquakes or earthquake faulting or signs of activity in the area and these lights.
Now, one way to be able to prove that there is a connection between earthquakes and UFOs is to be able to have a database that's large enough to do that.
By pinpointing the geographic areas, we can go in and look at seismic activity that's gone on there over a span of time.
We can take a look at UFOs that have been sighted there and see if there's any direct correlations between them.
Michael Persinger and John Durer have done that with Yakima.
They feel that there is a strong statistical correlation, a preponderance of data that shows that shortly before or after earthquakes, lights are seen.
And it's very compelling.
The problem is, is that mixed up with these balls of light on the Indian Reservation, there were also reports of Bigfoot.
There were also reports of what appear to be abductions, as we understand them.
There are also reports of encounters of humanoids.
And also beeping sounds and other kinds of strange noises.
unidentified
All right, well, there's a good place to tell me.
I've got an audio recording here, a short audio recording.
This is a recording that was made by a UFO researcher named David Jacobson.
And in April of 1975, April 19th, actually, he recorded this on the Chulalop Indian Reservation, which is just above Seattle in the Puget Sound area.
I don't know all the details about it, except that there was something that was being heard up there many years earlier.
I think it was 1966 in Hoopdall, Washington, there was a similar beeping sound that was heard that skeptics interpreted as being the sound of a soft, wet owl.
But he had recorded these, and actually Bill Vogel had this recording and provided it to me.
Since this recording, I have been in touch with another researcher who has acquired other recordings from other independent investigators and has had them all analyzed and has shown clearly that it's not an owl.
They do share the same frequency band and similarities, and they seem to be the same sound.
Now, the interesting thing about this particular tape that you have is that it was recorded in April of 1975, and at the same time, in the same month, on the Yakima Indian Reservation, which would have been several hundred miles to the east, Bill Vogel was receiving reports of beeping sounds.
And in fact, I interviewed a witness on the reservation who himself had heard these.
I found this extremely interesting because here we have independent witnesses.
We had a recording.
And then most recently, as I mentioned, there have been some other recordings that have surfaced of the same sound.
Now, let me just take a brief moment, if I could, Art.
I went through my files and I pulled out some representative samples of newspaper stories that were being published in the early 1970s around the country, which, interestingly, were reporting beeping sounds which were associated with objects.
Here's one dated July 17th, 1972, Elliott Lake, Ontario.
This is from the Espanola Standard, Ontario, Canada.
Three girls here heard a loud humming noise with an intermittent beeping sound coming from the area over the high school.
They also heard what sounded like magnified voices coming from something behind the high school.
They then saw a giant red ball about the size of a full moon, which is quite interesting.
Here's another report from the News American of Baltimore, Maryland, dated August 30th, 1972.
On August 14th, 1972, a young man named Greg Faltersack told police that he was driving along a country road.
He was surrounded by mist and woods when he saw something.
At that moment, the electrical system in his Plymouth went out, and he heard a strange beeping noise.
Here's another report from Centralia, Washington.
This is March 18, 1971.
June Wadsworth observed a UFO in the sky.
It had multicolored red and green blinking lights and was emitting a strange beeping sound.
I have numerous accounts here.
I probably have at least two dozen of these.
And it's clear to me that in some cases there is an object associated with it, and in many cases it is a ball of light.
So there seems to be something rather intriguing here that perhaps balls of light are emitting a beeping sound.
Well, you know, there's another report that I should mention to you, and it's The Interrupted Journey by John Fuller, which is an interesting chronicle of Betty and Barney Hill's, you know, famous abduction case.
You know, in preparing for your show, I went back and looked in here, and on page 123, there is the transcripts of the interviews that were held with Betty and Barney Hill.
And at the close of their experience, when they left the scene, they saw a bright, huge ball, which was orange.
I'm quoting it right here.
It was a bright, huge ball, orange.
It was a beautiful, bright ball.
And as they were driving away, they heard a beeping sound, which seemed to be coming from behind their automobile.
So it may be that the beeping sounds are being emitted by balls of light, which are craft which are carrying beings.
So the problem is putting all these pieces together, and the only way to do it is to go to particular areas like Yakima or be able to gather enough data from disparate locations from independent observers.
Well, my best guess is that we really don't have an answer.
I mean, I think that it's worth testing the tectonic strain theory of UFOs further.
That's my specific goal.
I now have amassed thousands of reports from newspaper sources and from investigators' files and articles.
There's enough data now that we can look at these cluster areas and look at the seismic record and see if we can see a direct correlation in time with objects and with earthquakes.
Michael Kersinger's work is very, very compelling and very interesting.
The problem is with Yakima, he never really showed any direct correspondence in time between an earthquake and a ball of light.
That is, when an earthquake occurs, there should be a ball of light.
Well, he never found that.
He found an interesting pattern in which balls of light would appear about six months after a low-level earthquake.
Hold it right There, we'll be right back with you.
I know there will be a lot of people who will have reports for you, people who have seen balls of light or even beings of light because we have had many, many, many such reports.
So, it is an interesting area to look into, and we'll do more of it in a moment.
You may think your home's your castle, but not if you've got home.
It's interesting that you happened to mention Bigfoot because that was what my question was about.
Good.
Something that had occurred to me, and I'll try to make this brief, that you said there's been an association with Bigfoot and UFO.
I've also heard in the literature that there's an association between UFOs and aliens genetically altering human beings through the course of history.
What I'm wondering is you might pose to this guest and some of your other guests in the future, if they've ever considered that the human race, where it would have been, say, thousands of years ago, is what Bigfoot is today, and we're the new improved version.
You know, Bigfoot, up here in the Pacific Northwest, it has been observed Bigfoot in areas where UFOs have been seen.
At Yakima, for example, I know Esta Cata, Oregon, which is east of Portland, there have been sightings of UFOs as well as Bigfoot sightings, too.
Bigfoot was also heavily reported in Pennsylvania in the 1970s.
And that Bigfoot, though, was a much different variety.
It had fangs and glowing red eyes and extremely vicious and a very violent creature.
And it was observed in Rome, Ohio, for example, in Dennis Pelichis, who I'm not sure if he's active in the field anymore, but he had documented right in his hometown sightings of this Bigfoot creature and UFOs that were operating over a farmer's property there.
And has published a book called Bigfoot Prints and has done an excellent job in looking at plaster casts and hair samples and all the data that he has managed to gather over the last year.
I have two things relating to, I guess they're balls of light.
One was an instance where my wife and I and a friend of ours were driving in a car on Interstate 40 at like 2 in the morning, and there was no other cars on the road.
We were in the desert in California, approaching Arizona.
And we seen up ahead what we thought was a truck coming the other direction on the highway.
And when we got closer, it wasn't a truck.
It was just one big light hovering over the highway.
It just was a round globe of bright light where you had to squint your eyes, and it got to the point where we had to stop the car to a dead stop, and then it just blinked out and disappeared.
The light had taken up three lanes of the highway.
Yes, that is interesting, Art, because the balls of light that were observed on the Yakima Indian Reservation were either hovering or moving slowly and typically went out like a light switch being thrown.
I lived in North Carolina back in the 80s, and there was a, I think, fairly well-known legend or set of stories about lights that danced through the hills and hollows in some part of the Piedmont or the Appalachians.
I wonder if you were familiar with that.
Well, I am familiar with spook lights and ghost lights.
A lot of those reports, which are of small balls of light, in this case we're talking about several inches to maybe a few feet in diameter, are reported from the Appalachian or middle southern, I guess, area of the state, as well as the Midwest, parts of the Midwest.
I can't pinpoint exact areas.
There are the Brown Mountain Lights, I believe, in North Carolina, which is a famous locale for observations of these kinds of lights.
But there's a long, extensive body of literature on what are called spook lights or ghost lights, which have some connection to folklore, although I'm not really convinced that it has anything to do with myth or legend.
I think they are real.
But typically they are small, and they are often white in color or bluish or, again, orange in color.
But they don't seem to be related to the kind of things we're talking about here.
Well, they very well may be.
You know, if when I got into the subject, I wrote to the U.S. Geological Survey, and I said, give me all you know about earthquake faults in the United States.
I got a map that's about four feet by two and a half feet in dimensions.
And the United States, remarkably, is very, very heavily faulted.
The only area of the United States that is not filled with faults is the upper Midwest portion of the United States.
The Appalachians and the eastern seaboard are heavily faulted.
And I wouldn't be surprised if some of these things that are being observed in those areas are related to earthwides.
Well, and, you know, keep in mind, of course, that much of the seismic activity in the last couple of hundred years, New Madrid, Charleston, you know, there have been some major quake faults up in the New England area, too.
Like you say, much of what we see or have seen in recent history has been on the West Coast, but there's been a lot of that kind of activity.
So there is, thank you, there's all kinds of earthquake activity going on, and there are a lot of people, and I don't know what weight you give to this, Greg, but there are a lot of people out there who feel something is getting ready to happen.
I know it's a very vague statement, but believe me, there are a lot of people that feel it.
Well, you know, there are a lot of precursors to earthquakes, and I'm sure you're familiar with what the Chinese are doing, using animals, fish and aquaria and birds and small animals, in which the Chinese have small armies, if you will, of people who do nothing but watch these animals' behavior.
And often before major earthquakes, these animals will become frightened and frenzied and run around their cages and squawk and scream and everything else.
And it's not beyond comprehension that people have some sensitivity to changes in electromagnetic fields and vibrations in the earth and that kind of thing.
It's a lag time of about six to nine months, typically, which is what Persinger is talking about, where these balls of light will be observed, and then there is an earthquake.
We do know that there are earthquake lights.
This is well documented.
There was a flurry of earthquake activity in Japan in the 1960s, and a number of photographs were taken of glows of light which were emanating from the surface of the Earth.
These were typically described as being like an overturned bowl or a half circle of light.
There's been a lot of literature that's been compiled over the last 50 or 60 years.
There's a researcher that was named Galli in Italy who compiled a large catalog of observations of ball of light and luminescent kind of phenomena in Italy, which also is earthquake problem.
You know, the ball of light, again, you know, we're trying to unravel this mystery of what's causing them.
As I said earlier, there seems to be an association between balls of light and the so-called encounter reports.
You know, Ed Conroy, again, looking through some of the literature, it's such a math of this, but Ed Conroy worked for the San Antonio Express and wrote a book called Report on Communion, in which he looked at Whitley Streeber's accounts to try to provide validity for them.
And he himself saw on Streeber's property when he was invited out there a ball of light which was moving in an undulating fashion.
It had the apparent size of a golf ball and moved just above the trees.
So there seemed to be some compelling connection between balls of light and aliens, if you will, or the abduction scenario, what have you.
Again, that's why it's important to look at all these reports in the finer details, because some of these balls of light that are simply hovering in one place and going out, again, they suggest an energy being depleted, and now with the energy gone, the light form is going to vanish.
But objects that are hovering and then shooting off at high speed or in some direction, an angle, output in the atmosphere.
I don't think that can be accounted for by an electromagnetic beam or a column or something like that.
Well, it's deep in the respect that there are many cases where these balls of light or other lights, again, balls of light are really the signature that you're looking for in correlating lights with earthquakes.
But in some cases, I have flashes of light and sparkles and bursts of light and that kind of thing.
But there is an interesting pattern where many of these balls of light are seeing around mountains.
And, you know, mountains are caused by the upthrusting of rock from the earth.
And that upthrusting is caused by plates that are moving one against the other one.
So if you look at particular geographic areas and look at the landscape, look at the topography, and look at what is being observed there, there is, on the face of it at least, a correlation.
But the work has to be done in terms of going into the seismic database.
And looking at actual earthquake activity and looking at the appearance of the lights and when they happen.
For 19 years, he's been researching balls of light.
And it's almost hard for me to imagine somebody spending that number of years on it, and yet so many have seen them.
So many of you have seen them.
Well, maybe I can understand it.
At any rate, back to him and a bunch of faxes here in a moment.
The Sea Crane company has got GE Super 3 radios in.
And I'll tell you, the Super Series of GE3s, I'm not going to go through the whole history, but they are the most sensitive front-end AM radios that I think are sold anywhere.
They're just absolutely incredible.
The GE3, when it first came out, was a big disappointment.
Everybody went, wow, we thought it would be an improvement over the other great GE series, and it wasn't.
Well, they got recalled, and whatever was wrong, they fixed it.
And it is truly super.
It's a portable.
It operates on batteries, D cells, just like the old Zenith Transoceanic, or you can plug it into the wall, and it comes with a plug actually attached to go right into the wall.
It's got a large speaker, so the AM reproduction is superb.
It's got a large ferrite antenna, and I guess that's part of the reason it does so well on AM.
And of course, these sell out immediately.
And I mean immediately.
So if you want one, you must be on the phone early in the morning, Monday morning.
I doubt they'll be.
I bet they're all sold out by, oh, I don't know, 11 o'clock.
No later than.
They're $59.95.
And I'll tell you something: Bob Crane, I don't think he makes very much on these, or maybe he doesn't make anything at all.
The reason we sell them is because we want you to have good AM reception.
Actually, he better make a couple bucks on them, but I'll tell you, it's not certainly not much.
This is near rock bottom, $59.95.
If you want one, and the phones are busy, try back after 10 a.m.
But I'll tell you, get on it at 7.30 Pacific time.
My dad, who was 56 years old when I was born, mentioned seeing these balls of light several times while hunting the lower valley well before I was born in 1949.
He thought little of them.
He simply referred to them as lightning balls.
No big deal to him or his hunting buddies.
So apparently a lot of people had seen these, but lightning balls, again, that requires lightning, doesn't it?
Number one, approximately a year ago, July or August, New Lenox, Illinois, man and his wife coming home.
He is a scientist with a major government installation.
It had started to rain.
They had just come over a railroad track, and they saw a blue light following them.
They thought it was the police car coming up on him, so he slowed down because he thought he was speeding.
And it caught up with them and came into the car.
Don't went nowhere.
It just lit up the car, but it was a big blue ball of light.
Now, it was raining.
They came on to where I was.
They said they had come directly there.
The lights were off because there had been a noise of an explosion or something.
That it had a power transformer.
Now, they thought they had come directly, which I wasn't more than four minutes away from where they were, but there was a good half hour to 45 minutes time lapse from the time that blue light was in their car to the time they got to the house.
Well, there is a problem with something following an automobile.
Typically, ball lightning appears to be attracted to some metallic objects when they enter homes, and they usually explode with a very loud report.
In fact, they've been known to kill people when they explode.
There are accounts in the UFO literature of balls that do follow automobiles for miles and miles.
We've got a problem here, though, with the weather.
Certainly it's possible for ball lightning to enter into an automobile if there is some kind of crack between the window and the door or that kind of thing.
So it has to be researched more.
The loss of time, that fits the missing time phenomenon with abductions.
At the same time, perhaps there's the automobile.
Although if they were driving and lost consciousness for 30 minutes, I would tend to think they would have driven off the road.
unidentified
Well, they thought that they had just continued on their way, but when I reminded them when the electric went off, there had been a good half hour to 45 minutes.
Greg, are there a lot of reports of disruptions of vehicles, operation, in other words, engines stopping, that sort of thing, associated with the appearance of the balls?
You know, Mark Rodeger, who's the scientific director of the Center for UFO Studies, looked at that very question about vehicle interference.
And he took a database of several hundred reports and looked at correlations between UFOs and car stoppages, you know, engines going out and that sort of thing.
He did notice that there was a subset of ball of light phenomena that seemed to be associated with that, but the preponderance of car stoppages really were more structured-looking objects.
It's interesting because, Greg, I've been hearing reports lately that scientists have actually developed some sort of device that can produce an EMF-type pulse that can stop a car.
I mean, they're doing research so that, you know, police, instead of having a high-speed car chase, can point this at a car and stop the engine.
So, you know, it's not outrageous, apparently, that there would be this sort of energy possible.
There's a famous case called the Val Johnson case in which a sheriff's deputy in, I think it was Minnesota or Michigan in the late 1970s saw a ball of light which was suspended over a highway and this thing came hurtling at him and hit struck his automobile and he became unconscious for a period of time.
And the car was studied by the Center for UFO Studies working with General Motors and they looked at the windfield and a bent antenna and chips of paint that were burnt off of the car and that kind of thing.
And it certainly is possible that you can generate some kind of ball or beam of energy and disable engines and people.
The Marfa lights in Texas, people have been looking at those as well, and they're looking at the idea that headlights are actually being observed at some distance and being distorted through haze or simply distance and are being resolved with the human eye as balls of light.
That might not explain everything, but no, it would tend to explain some of these that tend to hover always over the same location and don't seem to ever be seen anywhere else.
And it tends to suggest that there must be something that's repeating over and over again there.
Well, you know, Art, the problem with that is not being able to do the seismic correlations yet.
There is, I guess, a fairly significant number of these objects that are reported that suggest to me something natural in the respect that they are very short-lived.
They tend to move up from the ground.
For example, they look like they're coming up from behind a tree or a promontory or a ridge or something.
They hover for a period of time and they go out.
They aren't doing anything that you would associate with intelligent maneuver or surveillance or moving toward people or that kind of thing.
The ones that follow automobiles for a period of time, the ones that are dividing and merging together and entering other objects, I have some cases where balls of light are ejected from other objects and descend to the ground or move toward the observer.
You know, that's another question.
I do think that there is probably a fairly significant body of UFO reports that are in the ball of light category that ultimately will be explained as being natural.
The problem, though, as we've mentioned throughout the show, is balls of light that are associated with craft-like objects or abductions or close encounters and that kind of thing.
It was silent, triangular, about 150 feet above me.
There was no mistaking what it was.
It was not a ball of light.
It was a solid, very solid, very large object, not flying, but floating.
I was in the Air Force, and I know what it takes for aerodynamic flight.
So while there are balls of light, there are also craft, unmistakable craft, and there are a lot of mysteries up there.
Many of them simply not explainable.
Totally inexplicable.
And that is why we do this program, trying to get to the root of it.
We'll be right back.
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Have you been tempted, Greg, in your years of investigation, or maybe it's happened, I'm sure it has, from moving to an investigation of what seemed to be lights or lights in the sky or balls or whatever they are, to so many reports of objects?
I ask that because of my own experience.
I mean, Greg, what I saw wasn't a ball of light.
There was no mistaking what it was.
I mean, there was, but it was something, it was either technology that we don't even hint at, that we have, or it was from somewhere else.
Yeah, I know what you're saying because they were looking at it, and one of them is lights, you know, lights in the sky and balls of light and that kind of thing.
And of course, the structured objects and that sort of thing.
Yeah, I guess I would say I have been tempted in that.
It's hard to make a connection between the two.
And yet, in cases where balls of light have been seen in concentrated areas like Yakima, there have also been, in some cases, structured objects that have been observed.
You know, in my study, I did uncover sightings that these fire lookouts had of some silver-shaped cigars and disc-shaped objects.
And so you have to ask yourself whether these are definitely two distinct phenomena, one of them natural and one of them that is manufactured, either on this planet or from another one.
And it's very frustrating because when I hear of a sighting such as yourself and others have of boomerangs and triangles and this kind of thing, you tend to want to think, well, they must be manned by someone.
They must be from some other planet.
But if we're dealing with a phenomenon that at its source is energy and there is a capability of disguise itself too, and that's the kind of latest thinking that Willie Striever has, you know, we have a phenomenon that is vastly more complex and much more frustrating, maybe impossible to explain.
When I was 12, I stepped out in the porch of my uncle's house.
It was about 10 a.m. in the morning.
And about two feet in front of me, this ball about the size of a basketball made of what appeared to be some sort of electrical charge just passed in front of me.
Scared the life out of me.
And I ran in the house, come back out, and it was gone.
Well, my conclusions after these many years of studying this is that indeed the phenomenon is real.
You know, we talk about technological devices, triangles and spacecraft and that kind of thing.
Remarkably, my research has uncovered a significant number of photographs of balls of light, not only in this country, but in other countries such as the Hestelin sightings in Norway in the late 1980s as an example.
There really is a lot of good photographic evidence.
So I have to conclude that balls of light, spheres of light, are real, definitely real.
I think there's some subcategories in which some of these things are.
If you would like a copy of this program, or any Dreamland program, or you would like to subscribe to our newsletter, the Art Bell After Dark newsletter, the number to call is 1-800-917-4278.
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Or don't forget our bulletin board system.
Lots of new stuff up there this weekend.
Just put up there this weekend.
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Well, it's been another good one.
Thank you all.
And from the high desert, good night.
unidentified
People next door with the big house and perfect kicks.