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March 19, 1995 - Art Bell
01:32:10
Dreamland with Art Bell - Linda Moulton Howe - Unexplained Phone Calls - The Dark Side of Religion - Jordan Maxwell
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Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience
not easily nor neatly put in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped.
And yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
This is Dreamland.
Indeed it is.
Another Sunday evening and Dreamland's on the air.
Hi everybody, I'm Art Bell.
As you just heard on this program, we explore areas not so easily pinned down and put in a box.
I'd like to welcome a whole raft of new radio stations to the network.
KTBR AM in Roseburg, Oregon.
Welcome, another in the family of the Oregon stations.
WINK AM in Fort Myers, Florida.
Welcome to Dreamland and the network.
Good to have you on board another Florida station.
WTDY in Madison, Wisconsin.
Welcome.
KHSN in Coos Bay, Oregon.
Welcome.
And KDWN.
It's been a long wait for some people in Las Vegas for Dreamland, but you are online, so welcome to that entire group of radio stations.
Great to have you online.
First, as always, we will go to Philadelphia, and we will speak in a moment with Linda Howe.
Then, coming up, Jordan Maxwell, who will talk about a chapter of a book he wrote called, The Book the Church Doesn't Want You to Read.
And he'll focus on religious texts, implications that human history has been manipulated by Non-human entities pretending to be gods, pretending to be gods and angels.
And that should be fascinating.
He'll also talk some about Area 51.
That was odd.
And now, Jordan Maxwell.
Jordan, welcome to the program.
All right.
Yes.
How are you?
I'm going to put you over on another place here, Jordan.
Hold on just one second.
Let me put you over here.
And are you there?
Yeah.
OK, good, Jordan.
Where are you?
I'm in Burbank, California.
Downtown, beautiful Burbank.
Downtown.
Thanks, downtown Burbank.
All right.
Jordan, I don't have a bio on you.
I have a little bit of information that Linda sent me.
We've only got a minute before the bottom of the hour.
Tell us about Jordan Maxwell.
Who are you?
Well, I am an author and a teacher and a lecturer, and I've dealt for many years with the subject of the occult societies, ancient theologies, secret societies and their influence on us today in our
modern day world and especially how it influences our theological and political
concepts and belief systems. I believe that the more we change the more
we stay the same that so much of what we believe and understand today has been
around for thousands and thousands of years. And as you introduced me
a while ago I really wasn't interested in talking about the book necessarily but
I do have a book out with Steve Allen called the book your church does not
want you to read at It's a general anthology on the background of ancient religions and where a lot of the concepts and ideas have come from.
Well, we're going to get to the part that the church doesn't want us to know about, I'm sure, and I'm sure that it involves the way we were placed on Earth.
Well, that obviously has something to do with it.
I thought so.
I guess that.
All right, Jordan.
That gives them a little teaser.
We're going to break here at the bottom of the hour and we'll be right back to you.
Stay right there.
Jordan Maxwell.
Sounds like it should be a fascinating night.
Conventional wisdom, Jordan, says that either we came from the slime and sort of crawled our way on the land at some point, and then the process of evolution finally got us here the way we are now, or the Creator, the man we call, the being that we call God, put us here as in Adam and Eve and the Bible.
Are you saying it didn't occur either one of those ways?
Well, actually, I'm not saying I know for sure, but I think that there is a lot more we need to know about how the Bible came into existence and how so much of what is in the Old Testament was actually based on even earlier records.
And I personally think that maybe intervention into our evolution How would you go about making the case for intervention?
Well, I can't do it as well as those who have written on the subject.
There have been some very illuminating studies done on how the ancient creatures that we find that rather simulate the man.
And we know that they've been around for thousands and thousands of years, and then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, pops up the human as we know it today.
And the jump in evolution, or the jump in the creation, just cries out that someone intervened in our evolution.
And I don't know that much about the particular subject, but I am inclined to believe that there has been some sort of a Intervention, because when you read in the Old Testament that God said, let us make man in our image, immediately you have a problem, as most Bible students, with who is us and our.
Later on it says that man has become as one of us.
Talking with the rabbi many years ago, he made the point that When you read that particular scripture where God said, come let us make man, it was not saying that God was creating man at that point.
It was actually saying, come let us make man in our image, according to our likeness.
Implying that man was already here, but for being so great he wasn't that great, and consequently whoever They were, or whoever God is that's talking to himself, someone is saying, let's take what is here and refashion it.
Let's make man in our image, after our likeness.
Well, do you think there was an event like the obelisk in 2001 or something of that nature?
well if i recall that there was a picture and one of the doctor ryan
fitchin uh... work that pictured and uh... human laying on a table with glass
rod going into the body and people standing around it and this
was all the way back to the samarian era
uh... i'm just wondering and i don't know for sure this is not a feel in which i am uh... proficient in but i
i just wonder if we weren't
in some way or another uh... manipulated into being uh... the the creatures that
we are today uh... from higher force
Let me talk about something for a second that I think you are somewhat familiar with.
MyArea51.
I say MyArea51 because it is just adjacent to me here.
Jordan, what are they doing there?
Well, I'll tell you.
I went up to see Pat and Joe, good friends of mine, up at Little Alien, and I took two friends with me, Paul Tice, the publisher, and Ivy West, a lady from Hawaii who has a radio show, and she happened to be in town at the time, and I was on my way to speak at Mesquite, I believe it was, and I was speaking at a UFO Congress there.
This was the first weekend in December, and on our way back on a Sunday morning, the three of us decided that we would go up to Area 51, because the three of us had never been there.
We met, and we had lunch up there and talked with the people, and then When they were closing up that night, the Little Alien, I asked Joe, well, where do we go to see UFOs?
And so he said, well, if you're going to see anything, go out to the right, go out on the highway, turn right and go a couple of miles and you'll see a black mailbox.
Well, we were so excited, the two people with myself, and so we drove out onto the highway and I turned left instead of right.
And we drove about almost 20 miles looking for a black mailbox and talking and not realizing we're going in the wrong direction.
And we got out and so when we finally decided we've gone too far and it's too late and we need to turn around we stopped to turn the car around and right where we stopped happened to be a very well kept dirt road leading off into the desert.
And of course it occurred to all of us that well maybe we'll take a drive on the dirt road and see where it goes.
So we did.
And we drove about three miles into the dirt road, and that night in particular was very overcast.
It was rather windy, overcast.
The clouds were moving very quickly.
And so we were driving, as I said, about three miles into the interior of the desert, and all of a sudden I got spooked.
I really legitimately became afraid that we were somewhere we were not supposed to be.
It just occurred to me.
And I said, look, I'm going to turn around and go back, because we're not supposed to be here.
And so they said, well look it, we've already come this far, and we've already, you know, and it's this late, at least we can do is stop for a few moments.
So it sounded halfway reasonable, so I said, all right, just for a couple of minutes.
So we turned the car around, shut the lights off, and we got out.
I have no idea in the world where we are, out in the middle of nowhere.
And we looked all around, there was nothing on the horizons anywhere, and then above our head, We looked up and lo and behold there were two large round glowing white plate or saucer shaped things and I have no idea in the world where and while watching these two things floating just they were not flying but they were going from they were coming from north going south right over the top of our heads right at the cloud line.
And then right behind them were five others that broke out of the clouds.
And there was seven brilliantly white, glowing brown things.
And as I said, I have no idea in the world what in fact we were looking at.
Jordan, being something of a ufologist and with a lot of interest in Area 51, after all, going to Area 51, of course you had your handy cam there, right?
No, not really.
Sure.
Not even a little brownie camera.
Nothing.
Nothing at all.
Sure.
So I don't know what the world it was and I have no idea in the world why we didn't have anything but we didn't.
So that was too bad but we didn't.
Oh my.
So that was it.
So we didn't have anything at all and we were not able to take any pictures and I'll tell you I don't think That we were able, I don't think we would have been able to take pictures at all because I suspect that we would not have been able to actually photograph these things because they, I believe, they have the ability to mask themselves
From a camera.
So I don't think it would have done us any good if we had a head.
Jordan, what do you know about Area 51, aside from the sighting that you just had?
Well, I really don't know that much about it.
It's history.
As I said, I talked with my friends up there and they gave me a little bit of the background.
I'll tell you what I feel.
My gut feeling about Area 51 and that area where we call the little alien is located.
Once you go up there, you have to be there yourself to understand what I'm saying.
There is a definite, definite feeling there that there's something going on and that there's definitely something spiritual happening there.
And so I am totally sure that there's something going on up there, but I just don't know what yet.
And so I'm fascinated by that place.
and i really don't know what what the play about the military part of it
that was one of the things that was of frightening me really legitimately
hearing me as the i i wasn't really too worried about what we were seeing in the
sky as much as i was uh...
what maybe the military was going to uh... come down on our heads and we were
out in the middle of nowhere and they could take us away we'd never be found
Actually, I think they have a civilian security service up there.
Well, probably.
All right, Jordan, you talk a great deal about symbols and mythology.
Yes, that is actually the subject which I am most interested in, is the influence of secret societies and fraternal orders on us today.
And how they affect us.
And that's the thing that I have been very interested in for some time.
If you go back into the occult symbols that are used in religion and the secret societies of paternal orders, you will find that we're using the same symbols today.
I'm hearing something in the background there, Jordan.
Yeah, I am too.
Hold on just a minute.
Okay.
Oh, that's a much better phone, Jordan.
Whatever it was you were using, don't use it again.
Okay.
This is much better.
Okay, very good.
Now, back to what I was saying.
Occult symbols and emblems and how they have been used in the ancient world is very important to understand because the same symbols and emblems are being used today.
It's a fascinating study when you get into the secret societies and the fraternal orders, and that has been the one place where I have always been fascinated.
All right, give us an example.
Well, let me explain how I got into this.
All right.
My mother had an uncle, when I was a child, had an uncle who worked in the Vatican, Secretary of State's office.
And on occasions, every couple of years, he would come back to visit the family.
And he would talk for hours with my father and friends about the intrigue going on throughout the world from the Vatican Secretary of State's office viewpoint.
I have two uncles who are retired federal judges.
My great-grandfather was a senator from the state of Florida.
So Senator Claude Pepper was a good friend of our family.
So I grew up listening to politics and religion from behind the scenes, and I became aware At a very early age, that there's just not too much difference between politics and religion.
One of my uncles used to say that there's never been a political movement in the world that wasn't a little religious, and there's never been a religious movement that wasn't a little political.
So I have come to understand since then.
I started my research into this quite legitimately because I was fascinated listening to these people talk.
And I began back in 59.
Jordan, what were you trying to determine?
I understand the fascination with religion and politics, but as you went back, what were you trying to figure out?
What was the basis of the beginning of the search?
Well, yes, good question.
I got the idea, somehow or another, the idea got across to me that the whole story behind religion and politics and the ancient world It's a story that has been systematically kept from view by the powers that be in almost all civilizations and in all nations, that there has always existed.
And I'm just grabbing for generally thoughts which led me to do my research.
Well, the obvious question is, what were they trying to hide from us?
Well, I think it was because the mystery schools of the ancient world were designed To protect certain very valuable knowledge, which was not to be allowed to the profane or to the mundane people.
And so there was occult or hidden, and I should clarify that the word occult simply means hidden, that there were hidden influences in government and religion all the way back into the Sumerian and pre-Sumerian Egyptian times.
There were priesthoods.
And those priesthoods were the holders of wisdom and knowledge, and that kind of wisdom was not given to the common people.
And I believe, and I was able to deduce that from hearing the kind of conversation, that that was still going on today.
There is much knowledge that is readily available to those who are in a position to obtain it, but that there is much that has been hidden from us.
And I don't think that that is in keeping with the American system, where certain societies and groups would keep knowledge from the people.
And consequently, I decided to, on my own, try to get to the bottom of where all of this stuff, you might say, comes from.
Where did all of these religious concepts and belief systems originate?
I'm born in December 28th so I'm told I'm Capricorn which is the searcher out to the ends of all things and that's really true for me because I have always been interested to go to the back and go to the bottom line to see where did things originate.
I'm still trying to understand though, did you hear a conversation when you were young, did you hear somebody say something that led you to believe there were great secrets that mankind somehow or a few of mankind possessed that we didn't know about?
Yes, not exactly in those words, but the general tenor of the conversation was that I remember my mother saying, don't repeat these things that you hear the men talking about.
The general idea was that there is a priesthood or an order of power in the world.
For instance, a classic example I can give you today is that group that meets up in Northern California, the Bohemian Society.
The Bohemian Society meets for a couple of weeks in July every year, and they have a symbol and they have ceremonies in front of bonfires at 12 midnight, and I have pictures of this, where presidents and all of the big shots in government and industry meet for two weeks out of the year, as I said.
I've heard of it.
And they have an owl that looks to be at least 12 to 15 feet high.
No.
And this owl stands in front of a bonfire, and I see all of these important people dressed in capes and robes, and they're all dressed in... And the article said that the owl is used by them to symbolize wisdom, because you can see things in the dark.
Obviously, the people who lead this world are very wise, because they can, like the owl, can see things in the dark, implying that there is a whole world of knowledge out there that we're not privy to.
As normal citizens, and I think it's an idea whose time has come to at least make people aware of some of the tricks of the trade of politics.
Well, what do you think goes on at these meetings?
I mean, somehow in my mind's eye I just picture our Vice President and President Clinton dancing around a giant owl, and I'm trying to figure out what you think goes on at these meetings.
I mean, is there some imparting of knowledge or sharing of knowledge or is it sort of like a ritual?
I think rituals have a lot to do with it.
I think that there are certain spiritual values and knowledge which is held in common by the association which is acted out in ritual.
As I said, the fire beneath the owl There are obviously overtones, occult symbols and emblems which have occult overtones.
An obvious question would be, many of the rich and powerful are said to be interested in an international single order, or the one world government if you want.
Is it somehow all related to that?
I tend to believe yes.
I think so.
And even just a general uh... business acumen would tell me that uh...
uh... it's easier to manipulate one government than two hundred and fifty
so if you're going to manipulate government why don't you just have one
government and then you can control the entire world and this is not so uh... foolish as it might sound
It sounds like a melodrama for a movie.
It does.
Secret of the Bell or something.
And then I would even further speculate that somehow all of this is a world source.
Well, that is one of the things which I totally believe.
I think that there is some sort of a connection between The world government, if you please, some sort of an overstate over the world, and most... I have heard politicians and I've heard knowledgeable people in the United Nations is based on some sort of a world system of government.
Oh yes.
And consequently, if there is in fact some sort of a system in which all nations are aware and they honor certain things, even if they get cantankerous and Get out of line.
All nations and politicians and diplomats are aware that there is a world order of sorts.
All right.
Jordan, hold it right there.
We're at the top of the hour.
Relax.
We'll be back to you.
We will try to make some sort of galactic sense of all of this when we come back.
Jordan Maxwell is my guest and you're listening to dreamland From the kingdom of nigh, you're hearing from the king of
kings, the king of kings.
From the kingdom of nigh, you're hearing dreamland with Art Bell.
To participate in the program, call toll free 1-800-DREAMLAND.
It certainly is.
Dreamland underway for a Sunday evening.
I'm Mark Bell.
It's a busy night.
All right.
To Jordan Maxwell.
Jordan, are you there?
Yes, I am.
All right.
code seven oh two seven two seven one two two two or the wildcard line at seven oh two
seven two seven one two nine five this is the cbc
radio net it certainly is dream at dreamland underway for a sunday evening
i'm mark bill lots of busy night alright to jordan maxwell jordan either
yes i am alright uh... linda howell mentioned in her piece the rising sun
yes and that caught my attention because that's a symbol that i have been uh...
very familiar with for a long time and the implications of the rising sun are horrendous
because of the we can take that all the way back as i said before much of the
symbolism goes back into the
ancient and prehistoric world I don't believe there's ever been a symbol used more frequently and more widely used than that of the rising sun.
But it would make sense.
Early man, Jordan, would have, I think, worshipped the sun, would have looked at the sun as one of the biggest things in his world.
Absolutely.
And the sun represented life, it represented warmth and light on the earth, and life, L-I-F-E, life on the earth.
But it also is a very important symbol in the occult societies of Freemasonry.
For instance, the communist symbols that are used during the Communist Party and Soviet Union.
The Soviet National Coat of Arms used the rising sun.
The Nazi symbol of the swastika was the sun in motion.
If you go through a flag book, Flags of the World and Hallow Tree, you'll find the sun And it's rising as a symbol that is used by almost every culture in the world.
And that's why it's a very important symbol, and as you say, it's because the sun was so important to ancient man.
But I'm saying that there is another significant connection can be made to that rising sun symbol, in that it represents spiritual and intellectual enlightenment.
And consequently, it was used as a symbol in the illuminated societies, or Even the Bavarian Illuminati used the rising sun to symbolize the coming of an age of enlightenment that would be dominated by the different various societies.
Well, enlighten me a little.
What is the Illuminati?
Well, there were many different Illuminatis as such.
The Jesuits were referred to as the Illuminati.
The Bavarian Illuminati, of which has been fairly well talked about in political circles, was a southern German, the Order of Freemasons, who infiltrated into the Grand Lodge of England and had for a time great sway as if it were a secret society within a society.
Freemasonry was already well in existence in England and in Europe, in 1717 is when it was founded and in 1775 74 75 and 76 the Bavarian Illuminati which was a hybrid occult order insinuated itself and moved into and joined itself to the Grand Lodge of England and became very
Oh, it became very powerful in its ability to manipulate Masonic government, edicts, and education, etc.
And so, the influence of secret societies, as I said, on government has been an issue which people have been looking at for some time.
I particularly believe that the governments of the world today are in fact Being very heavily influenced and manipulated by fraternal orders, secret societies.
A classic example of the kind of thing I'm talking about is you go to any good university and there's going to be things which are called Greek letter societies.
Physicians have their own fraternal orders.
Attorneys have their fraternal orders.
Politics has its.
I believe that so much of what we see happening in our country, and I'm mostly concerned with our country, that so much of our politics, our religion, our social institutions, are being directed behind the scenes by secret societies, fraternal orders.
Even those societies which are semi-secret and supposedly open for review, I believe that For instance, behind what we call Scottish and York Rite, I believe, is a higher degree of Freemasonry.
And consequently, I find no fault with the Freemason next door.
But I do believe that behind British Freemasonry is a higher form of Occult Freemasonry.
And so I'm very concerned about the influence that secret societies' fraternal orders have on us.
You know, Jordan, let me say something, and maybe you can come back at me in some way.
I'm not a great believer in conspiracy theory and if you look at the world today to imagine that a single entity of any sort or a single secret society or even a group of them are in charge is is to me ludicrous because Jordan there is so much disorder in the world and I mean disorder that it's hard to imagine there's any central control on how do you refute that?
Well I don't.
I'm not saying that there is one all-encompassing society.
Or even many.
Or even many.
but i do but if you will recall uh... freemasonry the britain uh... the grand
lodge freemasonry uh... that which we call the scottish right freemasonry has a symbol on their
on their largest ordo obcao order out of chaos and the idea is that uh... with the influence of
powerful forces behind the scenes you can bring order out of the chaos
that we see we know for instance that much of the uh... is uh... that we have in the streets in the crime
that we have in this country is organized that is uh... we even have a term
organized crime so i i don't find that it's uh...
i mean i believe that most of what we see happening in our world today
wars and the uh... revolutions of the bloodshed and all the anarchy going on
i believe someone is causing it i do not subscribe to the uh...
To the theory that things just happen, because I know better.
I know that in big business and big money and big government, things don't just happen.
So the wars we've had, the great social disruptions that we've had, these have been orchestrated, planned?
I think so, yes.
I think that for the most part they have been.
They have been heavily influenced.
Organizationally accepted reference books and history books will talk about conspiratorial apparatus going on in Germany and in England, and we have such things as Benton team conspiracies, and we know that there has been this kind of thing going on.
I mean, why would there in law enforcement today in this country, federal, state, and local, why do they have divisions called the criminal conspiracies division?
If there isn't such a thing as a criminal conspiracy.
Wait a minute, Jordan.
Why would a criminal conspiracies division imply that that group themselves was a criminal conspiracy?
In other words, they are organized to try and find criminal conspiracies and it doesn't take too much imagination to know that criminals conspire.
Well, then you've just answered what I've said.
I'm not saying that the entire The world is in the hands of one group or one group of societies, but I'm saying that the concept of a criminal conspiracy is something that we have always dealt with.
There have always been brotherhoods and secret societies and paternal orders, the assassins and the religious orders.
We know that these things go on throughout the world.
They always have.
uh... it's logical to me that if there are many other smaller
uh... societies manipulating or causing chaos are causing disruption uh...
why couldn't there be uh... an organized effort on the part of very powerful
people who have the money and the background in the experience
uh... too frightened people into doing things uh... that they would
not ordinarily do by writing
We know Hitler did that.
Then the next logical question is, to what end?
In other words, what motivation or what motive do these people have?
Well, I think that they have various motives at different times in history.
We know that Adolf Hitler used chaos in the streets and bloodshed to frighten the people.
I believe that that's, this is my opinion, I believe that Our government has allowed, purposely allowed, according to a plan, allowed violence to go on, allowed terrorism to go on, and when people are found guilty of terrorist acts, murder in fact, that they are eventually allowed to go back on the streets, and we know that that is true, that we do put many criminals back on the streets because we just don't have room for them.
However, if you don't pay your income taxes, they will find why they allow murderers back on the street, is because there is a very small percentage of 1% in the population of killers.
Well, as a matter of fact, I think, Jordan, the statistics show that about 7% of the criminals Commit some incredible percentage of the violent crime that goes on.
In other words, it's a very small nucleus of very recidivistic criminals.
Yes.
And if you were to take them out of society, and of course the powers that be, we're talking about law enforcement and government, pretty well know with the high technology we have today, they pretty well know who they are.
And most usually know where they are.
Now, if they wanted to take them out of society and therefore take out this threat of violence and rape and mayhem, they could do it.
And this government is the most powerful entity on earth.
And if they chose to take someone out of service, they could do it very easily.
They got a hold of Adolf Hitler on the field of battle throughout the world 60 years ago when they were a lot less sophisticated than they are now.
They were able to get a hold on the Great evil empire of the Soviet Union.
This country is able to get a hold on anybody at any time they please.
They will send in the military and bring you back to this country anytime they please.
This government that we live under is a very powerful entity.
Consequently, if the violence continues, if the lawlessness continues, the drugs are coming in by the boat full, it's because someone I believe Is looking the other way purposely.
And I would go a step further and say that there is influence in our government to allow this kind of crime to go on because it's good for politics.
I've heard judges talk about this.
Yes, and you think that influence would be the secret societies?
Yes.
Because I know that, for instance, the classic example is that the Mafia itself is a Masonic order.
It was founded by Giuseppe Mazzini in Garibaldi of Italy.
Both are high degree Freemasons.
And so much of the underworld is a Masonic order.
They use Masonic symbolism.
It's a fascinating story when you get behind all of these different societies and criminal societies.
And what about all the good the Masons do?
Well, I'm not talking about the guy that lives next door to you.
I'm talking about the people that live down the street.
The local lodges?
Yeah, the local lodges.
I'm talking about occult Freemasonry.
Societies within societies.
As I said, the Grand Lodge era, the Grand Lodge of England was founded in 1717, but in 1774-75, Illuminati Freemasonic, the Illuministic Freemasons moved into Freemasonry and began using it.
Alright, how does all of this, or even the higher realms of the Freemasons, connect to anything Well, if we go back to the building of the pyramid, the whole idea of being a Freemason comes from the word Masonic, or Mason.
And we know that that word is used in relation to anyone who builds with bricks.
And if you go back to Egypt, all of these symbols and emblems that are used in modern day Masonry go back to Egypt, because they were the great builders of temples and pyramids with brick.
And of course there were other great temples before Egypt, but the symbolism is primarily Egyptian today.
And they were the great brick builders.
And so consequently today when you go to college or high school and you graduate, you get a degree and you come out with a square mortarboard.
The square mortarboard that you wear when you graduate comes from the mortarboard that brick masons or plasterers and brick masons used in building with plaster and cement and bricks.
so that when you uh... you you we've been you know using those symbols in education and university
uh...
the symbolism is just profound once you get into it and see how all of these
things have come down to us the presumption the presumption being that
uh... mankind could not have with technology at the time built pyramids
uh... hence it was uh... extraterrestrial technology that gave the
otherwise earthly masons the ability to put all this together
Is that about right?
I tend to find that that's probably about right, in my opinion.
I think that the people who built the pyramid, the peoples who built that pyramid, if they were people at all, had cosmic companionship in their work.
I mean, they said they did.
All of the ancient cults and societies go all the way back to Babylon.
I have always talked about the influence of the gods on their work.
And that secrets then were imparted that the masons or masonry today retains?
Yes, yes.
And I think that that is quite true.
Even the architecture today, which is used, architects will tell you that there is, you know, going back to the Middle Ages, there were the trades, the architectural trades, and they were called Masonic Orders, and from that we get our modern day unions, and the idea of protecting the crafts, they call it craft masonry.
We have something called state craft.
There is a new hotel in Las Vegas that is definitely a pyramid.
I wonder if the Masons had anything to do with that.
Well, I shouldn't be a bit surprised.
All right, I want you to hold on for a second.
I want to get the numbers out.
We're about to open up the lines when we come back from the bottom of the hour break.
So if you would like to call us, here are the phone numbers.
First-time callers at area code 702-271-222.
I feel like I ought to set up a line for masons, past a certain degree.
Wildcard lines, area code 702-727-1295.
702-727-1295. Toll-free, west of the Rockies, 1-800-627-8000.
Rockies won eight...
That's 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, it's 1-800-825-5033.
1-800-825-5033.
My guest is Jordan Maxwell.
That's 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, it's 1-800-825-5033.
1-800-825-5033.
My guest is Jordan Maxwell.
We're talking about ancient symbols and groups and mythology, and we'll be right back.
Alright.
Without pulling punches, Jordan, are you there?
Yes, I am.
I'm going to just deliver this to you the way it came over the facts, and I want to get your response.
Art, I am disappointed that you would give this man a forum.
As a Jew, I know that conspiracy theories are as deadly as any fighting words.
Please ask him, what is the difference between Freemasonry and Catholicism, or the difference between Catholicism and Judaism, and I think you'll uncover his true colors.
What about it, Jordan?
Well I consider Freemasonry a fraternal order coming out of the 1717 England based on the old operative Masonic orders or the old operative orders of Freemasonry coming from the Middle Ages and today Scottish and York White Freemasonry is nothing more than a fraternal order operating in something called Speculative Freemasonry, it's not necessarily made up of people who actually work with bricks, but now it is the philosophers and business people of the world who also are members of Masonic orders.
But when we get into the Catholic Church, I believe the Catholic Church itself is a Masonic order of sorts, in that it is based on some ancient cults that have come out of the ancient world. Its
symbolism is very easily traced back to both Syria,
Persia, Egypt, and especially the Sumerian and Babylonian. I don't know
what the person was getting at.
I haven't mentioned anything about...
Judaism? No, you haven't. No, I don't intend to.
I'm just talking about the mere fact that we do have societies operating in the world.
Doctors will tell you that.
They belong to societies.
All right, let's try this one.
Art, ask your guest, what is behind the war in Northern Ireland?
Does the new truce mean some hidden groups have united?
If so, why?
I think that probably has something to do with it.
I was interested in that because I have some great color pictures of the marches of the different groups.
operating in northern ireland and they're very much masonic they they are
even some of the articles coming out of northern ireland talk about the masonic
brotherhood who have joined together to fight
uh... the british and then there are others who were there to establish
british rule secret society so
uh... so the answer in short is yes uh...
Hyart, please ask your guest to tell you about Albert Pike and the book he has written and the subjects that he talks about in his book, Morals and Dogma.
I think it'll blow you out of the water.
Will it?
Yeah, well, Albert Pike has been considered the great, you know, Freemasonic high priest, and that he was during the Civil War and after.
He was probably very heavily connected with the Order of the Golden Circle and the Order of the Golden Triangle, which later joined and became known as the Ku Klux Klan.
And so, Albert Pike has had some very racist comments in his book, Morals and Dogma.
But, you know, I don't feel much like talking about Albert Pike over and above the fact that he was very heavily involved in Politics of his time.
All this does not somehow connect to anti-semitism or racism, does it?
I don't think so, no.
Matter of fact, some of the most malign people in the world have been Jews.
I believe that Jews have been malign because someone behind the scene seeks to cause, if they're going to do something, if a criminal society is going to do something, it would be better to have a scapegoat in case you get caught.
And consequently, I believe Jews have been made a scapegoat by other societies who are not Jewish.
Not at all.
Alright, I wanted to get that clear.
Some of the most important people in this country today are very important and wealthy people in the country we know have a tremendous influence on our government, or very Protestant.
Alright, having said all that, to the telephones.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
Hi.
Yes, hello Mr. Bell, Mr. Maxwell, very, very interesting.
Thank you.
This is my first time hearing Dreamland.
On your dissertation regarding intervention, I guess most people think divine intervention
like a term, and I just wanted to point out that in Genesis 6, it says, and I quote,
And the sons of God found the daughters of men fair and went into them, which certainly
suggests commingling or intercourse, the possibility of a little higher species.
On the other issue, going back way before the illusion mysteries, way back before the
Sumerians, these ancient mysteries and wisdoms were not evil to begin with, because there
is documentation that Jesus spent time at the pyramids, you know, in studies.
But when men, we'll say evil men, found out about it, they infiltrated, but it's not the
symbols themselves that are evil.
It's what men did to them.
Of course.
Where are you calling from?
I'm calling from Las Vegas.
Las Vegas.
In KTWN.
Excellent.
Glad to have you along.
Thank you very much for the call.
I agree with you.
You agree with her.
In other words, the symbols of themselves are not evil.
It's how they're used and by who they're used.
But the point is that There are societies and organizations, and organized societies, and some good and some bad.
And I'm saying that we know that there are societies which are dedicated to overthrows of governments.
We, even the Freemasons, will admit that the Illuminati did, in fact, operate within Freemasonry at a time, and that's even in their own literature.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
Hello.
Do you know who Tex Marr is?
Yes, I do.
I don't know that much about him, but I know who you mean.
Basically, he's saying the same thing you are, but the Illuminati is like Satan worshippers?
Yes.
Well, as I said, there's quite a bit of literature out, and a lot of it is very legitimate, and very good research material on secret societies, etc., and the satanic groups, and we have a lot of that going on, and I'm aware of his writings.
I'm trying to stay middle of the road and just make the point that there are some very powerful societies that work throughout the world that we need to take our heads out of the ground and actually look at the very good possibility, because we know that even in our own country that there are parties.
We call them the Democratic and Republican Party.
They're groups of power groups.
We even have a term, special interests.
And, uh, the people of the country are always, uh, at war and at odds with special interests.
Well, I'm talking about, uh, orders of people and fraternal orders.
Why do you think it has them on the back of the one dollar bill, the Novus Ordo Seclorum or the new order of the world?
So we're talking about an order of things.
I mean, Adolf Hitler called his, um, his monstrosity an order of things, uh, the new order.
All right, ma'am, where are you?
I'm Wichita.
Wichita.
All right.
Thank you very much for the call.
The New World Order.
Yes.
The word New World Order.
It's actually the New Order or the New Secular World Order.
The godless world, Jordan?
Well, you know what I find interesting about that is that there's been so much written about that, but I have at least seven major reference works, which I have photocopied articles from ...on the chief cornerstone, or the triangle on the pyramid.
And all seven of these reference works, most have been found in theological seminaries.
The word for the Messiah in Hebrew, in, I think it's Psalms 118-22, the Messiah is referred to as the chief cornerstone, the builders rejected.
And then, twice in the New Testament, Jesus is referred to as the chief cornerstone the builders rejected.
The word seems to be a Greek word, which means, in the New Testament, a Greek word which means a triangle which sits on top of a pyramid, the pyramidon.
And so, the pyramid, I believe, the original pyramid, the Cheops, the one we call Cheops Pyramid, I believe is a very important religious symbol.
Put here by deity, the divine.
I don't know how you would, you know, how you view the divine, but God is such.
How do you view the divine?
Is the divine an extraterrestrial, Jordan?
I believe that the divine, I believe in a, well I have two concepts that I'm trying to intermingle in my mind for years.
I believe in an overall spiritual force in the universe that, for lack of a better term, We could just call the presence of God. I believe in the
presence of a divine force in the universe, but I'm also very
I'm I'm very suspicious that there could be other life forms out there that
that are more highly advanced than we and who have come here and
intervened in our evolution and and continue to this day to intervene in our life is
Is that what you think you saw at Area 51?
Well, that I don't know.
I really don't know what it was I saw at Area 51, but I'll tell you, if what I actually, if what we, the three of us, saw at Area 51 was real, if it was not a holograph bounced down on our atmosphere by a satellite, if it was a real thing we were seeing, Then one of two things is true.
Either our technology, and I mean human technology, has far, far surpassed anything that we normally would think that we have, or there is, in fact, extraterrestrial presence here.
Well, gee, either way, it's an interesting story.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
Where are you calling from, please?
From Fort Smith, Arkansas.
KWHN is now carrying Greenland.
Excellent.
As of tonight.
Yes, sir.
I've always suspected that it's supernatural.
About two years ago, I've had some experience in a certain area that has changed my life.
I've seen some things that I can't put into words, but one question that I had, I believe there is a balance in that power, but in the period of history called the Dark Ages, did that Do you have any significant power shift or swing one way or the other in your theories?
That's an interesting point.
I had never really thought about that, actually.
If we're to understand that extraterrestrial life forms have influenced us in our evolution, in our theology and government, then it's a very good point that maybe Some evil forces were at work to keep the human race in the dark.
We know that at that time the Catholic Church was the dominating force and that only the priests were allowed to be educated.
So out of that came what was called the Dark Ages.
And of course with the Age of Enlightenment or the Renaissance, there began a revolution or a rebellion against that kind of Well, I'd be very interested.
so it gave birth to a new age of enlightenment. Jordan, these secrets that we talk about,
that the society shares, or that the rich and powerful share, who knows, are these documented,
are these secrets somewhere on some holy grail kept from our eyes? And if so, where do you think
that somewhere is? Well, I'd be very interested if I ever, before I pass away, I'd like to be able
to know what was in the Vatican Library that was taken from the Alexandrian Library and the ancient
text and all of these ancient things which have been kept from our eyes in the Vatican Library.
I know that in the Himalayas Mountains there are just an incredible collection of ancient
documents. And one never knows where these things are, but I'm sure that there is a whole
Oh, no.
Mystery School still in operation today throughout the world.
Alright, let's keep moving.
We have a lot of callers.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
Hi.
Hello there.
Is this Jordan Maxwell?
Jordan Maxwell.
Turn your radio off, sir, and tell us where you're calling from.
I'm calling from Carmel, California.
Okay.
Alright, turn your radio off, please.
Yeah, I will.
Hello?
Yes, go ahead.
Yeah, I'm calling from Carmel.
I've been listening to you a lot and I enjoy it.
First of all, I'd like to say that the Protestant Freemasons were augmented by the Catholic Knights of Columbus.
It had nothing to do with Freemasonry, but were competitive because the Catholics thought they needed a group to Well, it seems to me, and Jordan, you might want to comment on this, if you've got enough secret societies all in some way in competition with each other, or trying to attain power or influence or whatever you do with secret societies, that the end result would be a kind of a
chaotic uh...
mess anyway uh... so instead of some conspiracy that's doing something
specific they're all in contention and we have chaos
well i uh... you know my answer to that is i'm not saying that there is one
overall all-encompassing conspiratorial apparatus over the world however
that is not foreign to christianity because christianity all christians
will understand and remember that the scripture says the whole
world is lying in the power of the wicked one that there was a demonic force
behind uh... the the the governments in the world uh... that we
know today The Apostle Paul, it was Paulanist New Testament theology that said that we are at war, not with flesh and blood, but with principalities and
And secret societies and powers behind the throne, spiritual entities.
So, the whole idea of secret societies and even one great order of secret society operating in the world is not foreign to Christianity.
So, and the mere fact that in the old times, in the Old Testament, every time angels appeared to the prophets or to the people in the Bible, they always appeared in the form of men.
And even in the New Testament theology, the Apostle Paul says to be hospitable to all men, for some have entertained angels unaware.
The implication being is that you could be talking to an angel and don't even realize it.
So the mere fact that someone like myself would say that it is at least possible, if not plausible, that extraterrestrials may look like us, may have created us in their image, and we might in fact be talking to one and wouldn't even know it, It has a lot of credibility in Christianity.
All right.
Very quickly, east of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
Hi.
Hi.
My name's Randy.
I'm calling from Chandler.
Chandler, Arizona.
Uh-huh.
Wait a minute.
You're not east of the Rockies, are you?
No.
I bet you I called the wrong one, didn't I?
I'll bet you did.
Thank you very much for the call.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
Hi.
Hello.
How are you?
I'm fine.
Where are you?
I'm in Oregon.
Oregon, alright.
Okay, my name's Janine, and I'd like to say that I agree with his comment about crime in America, saying that if we wanted to do away with these violent criminals, that we could do it.
That we could do it, and it hasn't been done, and it's very bizarre that we're in a country that would keep people in prison for long terms for the use of marijuana, yet allow Rapers and murderers out after a very small time spent in prison.
Well, I couldn't agree more.
I agree, too.
I mean, it is a nonsensical policy.
There's no question about it.
Jordan, we are again at the top of the hour, so we've got to pause here.
All right, pause we shall.
If you must leave us at this hour, I'm sorry, there is one more hour to go.
But it will not be carried by all stations.
Hopefully, KTWN, which just picked up the show, will indeed begin carrying the third hour soon.
I just wanted to mention that and we'll be right back in all other time zones.
This is the CBC Radio Network.
Back now to Jordan Maxwell.
Are you there, Jordan?
Yes, I am.
All right.
I have a quote I'd like to quote in relation to our economic situation.
Yes, go right ahead.
Back in 1948, the book Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, Brave New World.
Yes.
In the introduction, written by Julian Huxley, It's an interesting quotation.
We're talking about 1948.
It says, quote, As political and economic freedom diminishes, sexual freedom tends compensatingly to increase.
And the dictator, unless he needs cannon fodder and families with which to colonize, empty, and conquer territories, this dictator will do well to encourage that freedom.
In conjunction with the freedom to daydream, All right.
under the concept of the movies and the radio it will help his
it will help to reconcile his subjects to the serpent to which is now their
fate uh... let me give you a quote from somebody who just sent a
fax in charleston south carolina
this man on dreamland saying the catholics are a group subversive in
nature Well, I just hate it when people attack a very wealthy church that is, quote, very moral and has not changed like other churches.
I am a Catholic and the Pope is not Jim Jones or David Koresh.
This guy must be suffering from paranoid delusions.
How do you respond to that?
First of all, I never said that the Pope was like Jim Jones.
There seems to be an awful lot of people putting words into my mouth that I didn't say.
Well, this will give you an opportunity to unsay them or to clarify them.
Yeah, that's right.
The fact of the matter is that the Catholic Church has been guilty of, and is today guilty of, intervening into political affairs, be it throughout the world.
As I said, My mother had an uncle and I used to sit and listen to him talk about the Vatican, the Jesuit assassinations, how Jesuits were used to assassinate people, how the assassins in the Middle East provided narcotics and drugs.
It is a very well-known story that the Catholic Church has been involved in very powerful syndicates and underworld organizations and one needs only to see Movies like Godfather 3, where it even talks about the P2 or Propaganda Due Lodge of Freemasonry operating in the Vatican.
People need to get their heads out of the sand and find out that the Catholic Church is not the holy sanctimonious organization that they think it is.
Religion, generally speaking, across the board, I don't care if it's Jewish, if it's Catholic, Protestant, or Islamic, or any other Religious organizations have been involved in political movements, and any time you get... But, Jordan, of course they have.
The Catholic Church, the bishops, I think, just made a statement about the Republican plan, saying, more or less, it's mean-spirited.
They didn't use those words, but, you know, they said it would produce more abortions, and or whatever.
In other words, whether it's Catholics or anybody else, of course religion is involved in politics.
How could it not be?
Absolutely.
But I'm saying it is even involved on a far more esoteric level.
It's a far more deeper level.
Has the Vatican been involved in the politics of Europe?
It has engaged itself in the murder and the violence in Europe, in revolutions.
We know that the Jesuits are guilty of all sorts of intrigue in government.
I am sure there's a lot of blood that has been shed during the Middle Ages, during the Reformation, the Inquisitions.
As a matter of fact, I believe that the Catholic Church became, and I didn't bring the Catholic Church up, but since it's been brought up, let me say this.
I believe that the Catholic Church is a very wealthy organization.
It is a very prominent theological institution in the world for the very reason that at a time, at certain periods in history, you had to be a Catholic or you were beheaded.
You were put to death on the stake and burned at the stake.
And until such time as we find out how these great religious institutions got to be great and large because of violence and bloodshed and murder.
There is nothing holy about how the Catholic Church got to be a great empire.
It got to be that way by being... Yeah, Jordan, you seem to be angry at religion.
Yes, because I'm tired of Jews calling in saying that I have said something against the Jewish people.
Then I get Catholics calling in saying I've said something against the great and holy church.
All I am saying is something that great people in the past have written on from the founding of this country is that there is, in fact, a phenomena in our world today, and that is the existence of secret societies and fraternal orders operating behind our professions, our institutions of higher learning, our governments, and our theological institutions.
And until such time as we wake up and find out who prints the money, where the ideas come from, who has the power, Behind the scenes, and as long as we are going to continue to hold on to antiquated, outdated concepts and ideas about how holy we are as a people and how righteous and holy our institutions are, we're never going to get to the bottom of how we got in the mess we're in today.
Alright, well, be careful not to pull any punches here, Jordan.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
Hi, my name is Renzo.
Okay, you're going to have to speak up, you're very hard to hear.
I live in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.
Alright.
Well, Art, this is the worst guest you've ever had on.
Why do you say that?
Well... Jordan, you're so full of it, I'd like to come down there and slap you, you little jerk!
I guess, is that the extent of it, or is there gonna be... Like, maybe... You, you, you... You just say these things that make no sense.
Alright, call her like when... Hold on, Jordan.
Call her, hold on.
Call her like what?
Like you said, I believe, I think... He has nothing to support this.
You're so full of it.
Aliens.
Affecting society?
How?
Chaos happens.
There's too many people here.
Okay, is that it?
Yeah, that's it.
Alright.
Uh, you wanna respond, Jordan?
I don't think there's anything to respond to.
I mean, he had his opinion, and I've got mine.
Alright.
We'll leave it there, then.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
Hello?
No.
Ease to the Rockies.
You're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
Hi.
Hello, Jordan.
I would like to ask you some questions about some things I've been hearing you say.
I'm right now trying to form an opinion about what I think of secret societies.
I've had friends of mine tell me about groups like the CFR, the Trilateral.
I've had to mention a word like the Illuminati that you've mentioned.
They call it the Order of the Illuminati.
I'd like to know what you think about all those.
I tend to believe that some of the greatest people in our history have believed in such things.
I don't know really what to think of it yet.
I'll get off the phone and let you comment.
Thanks a lot.
I think you're very informative.
All right.
Thank you.
I tend to believe that some of the greatest people in our history have believed in such
things.
If you will let me, I would like to quote George Washington.
In, let's see, 1798, September 25, I have a photocopy of a letter by George Washington
to one of his friends where he said, I have heard much of the nefarious and the dangerous
plans and the doctrines of the Illuminati.
and and then a second letter he said that was not my intention
to doubt that the doctrines of the illuminati and the principles of jacobin
ism had not spread in the united states on the contrary no one is more truly
satisfied of this fact that i am
then he goes on to say george washington goes on to say that individual who talks about freemasons and then he said
i do not believe that all freemasons are guilty of this kind of
thing of this kind of uh... conspiratorial
action but in that he says but that individual of them individuals
of them may have done this, or that the founder or instruments employed to found the democratic
societies in the United States may have had these objects in mind, and actually had the
separation of the people from their government, is too evident to be questioned.
And then Benjamin Disraeli.
July 14, 1856, Benjamin Disraeli said to the House of Commons, quote,
There is in Italy a power which we seldom mention in this house.
I mean the secret societies.
It is useless to deny, because it is impossible to conceal, that a great part of Europe, the whole of Italy and France, and a great portion of Germany, to say nothing of other countries in the world, is covered with a network of these secret societies, just as the surfaces of the earth are now being covered with railroads."
I can go on and read about 25 other great quotes from leading industrialists, leading leaders throughout the world, religious and political, talking about the existence of political and criminal secret societies that are working in our country today.
And I think that until such time as we look at and get a clear view as to where these institutions have come from, this special interest that we're all concerned about, And believe me, there's nothing more powerful than a special interest that's been around for hundreds of years, knowing how to manipulate people.
And history books are filled with this.
All right, Jordan.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
Yes.
Good evening, Art.
This is Greg in Mountain Home.
How are you doing?
Oh, fine.
Mr. Maxwell, I'm listening to your conversations tonight with great interest.
I was wondering, in my readings of all this, and I've been I've been reading about this for a number of years, not as many as you.
It seems to me, and I've never really been able to put my finger on it, but it seems to me that there's an interlocking between these organizations.
Not necessarily one all-encompassing organization, as Art would like to put his finger on, but that individuals from one group belong to an organization, and another group belong to another group, and that the ideas and Yes, I have seen the same thing and that's been known and commented on by many authors and writers and researchers in the field that many of the names of prominent members that were known to be members of certain secret societies in Europe, their names keep turning up in American societies and we can trace that kind of thing.
for at least those records that we do have of these societies.
So you're right, yes, there is a...
connections can be made between individuals.
For instance, the CFR, the Council on Foreign Relations in our country.
It's not a secret society as such, but it is a semi-secret order
in that we don't know and we're not privy to know all of its workings behind the scenes.
All right.
Are the guys and gals in CFR also likely to be the same ones dancing about the owl?
No, I don't think so.
I think some of them may be.
But we know that the CFR is connected to something in England called the British Institute or the Royal Institute for International Affairs.
You've got to know that any time you're talking about big money, Big government and political power, you've got to know that there are going to be fraternal orders and special interest groups involved in this kind of thing.
Now because we, on our level where we live, the common people aren't bothered by such things or involved in such things, we tend to think that everything is going along just fine.
I don't think so.
I think that there's a very powerful presence of something called special interest in international politics and uh... i think we see a
operating all around us and we just haven't opened our eyes to see and listen with
our ears well enough to catch
all of these connections that can be made and believe me there are a lot of
very uh... highly educated academic
people who have written on this subject not just me
All right, back to the phones.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
Hi, this is Dave in Wichita, and I have a question for Jordan.
First of all, I went to a Jesuit high school, and let there be no doubt, a Jesuit private high school, let there be no doubt that there are highly organized societies within the Jesuits.
Another thing, too, regarding your question, Art, how is this taught?
Is it all written down somewhere?
Well, it harks back to the ancient Greek times with the mystery plays in which these symbols were utilized in terms of acting out a play.
Oh, yeah.
Who only the initiates knew how to interpret.
And this is carried back all through the centuries to the Bohemian closet.
And I was wondering if he could elaborate on that, Jordan.
Well, that's exactly right, because they do have the mystery plays and skits that are put on at the Bohemian Society.
And the Bohemian Club, and I think it's interesting that it's called the Bohemian Grove, because when you get into grove worship, it's a whole new thing with the Druids, and the Druids of England and Northern Europe, and their grove worship.
And if you'll remember that the ancient Druids had a priesthood, the Druid priest, and one of the symbols of their magic was the magic wand, like Merlin the Magician.
Yes.
And magic wands were always made out of hollywood.
And I believe that we still have the magic worked on us by Hollywood, and there's a lot of symbolism and emblems that are used in movies and motion pictures.
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, they're looking for the Cup of Christ.
Why is Adolf Hitler looking for the Cup of Christ?
Why is Darth Vader wearing the Nazi helmet?
All of these are symbols and emblems denoting something, and I believe that there's something serious involved in it.
i don't think it's all child's play and i'd know that people
who were involved in such research know that there is something very serious
about the occultism that is going on in our country today
sorry wildcard line your turn with jordan maxwell either a proper training
yes uh... mister maxwell twenty couple of uh... comment but i think you're
right on and i really appreciate your uh... outspokenness
and i think you really get on the head with that comment uh...
that that are blinded to do the fact we want to identify with the fact that money
organizations and hold ourselves up
That's all I want to say.
Thank you.
There's some support.
It seems, Jordan, as though you're either received well with those who agree or almost violently from those who disagree.
Well, the people who are violently disagreeing, I believe, are in... What's the word?
They're rejecting because they are rejecting just totally, right off the top.
They're in denial.
Well, I've got to say, Jordan, I listened to you talk about Catholicism for quite a while.
I'm not Catholic, but if I were Catholic and devout, I'd probably want to hit you on the head.
Well, I'll tell you what.
If you were a member of the family of people who were burned at the stake, their heads were cut off, hot lead was poured in the face of human beings, children, hot lead was poured down their throat, people were beheaded, Murdered throughout the thousands were murdered at that at a time in France and Germany by the church There's been a lot of a lot of crime committed by churches and religious organizations throughout the world Indeed wars have been fought.
Well, I know and I'm not I'm not attributing anything bad to the Catholic people today but I am saying you better do some history, you know research into your history and of how the church got to be so powerful in a dog-eat-dog world how did the catholic church get to be as powerful as it is?
They got to be that way because history says it was a very despotic and powerful movement in europe and if you didn't join, you're dead.
I didn't mean to set you off again, Jordan.
uh... standby will be right back to you for another thirty minutes you're listening to dreamland on
the cbc radio network
and from the kingdom of mind
we continue with your calls on three months without bail Call Art now, toll free at 1-800-618-8255.
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Now again, here's Art Bell.
All right, here we go again.
Dear Art, please ask your guest if the Mormons use secret hand signals to identify each other.
This is a great show.
Fabulous guest.
Thanks, Greg and Linda.
Salt Lake City.
Well, I guess they ought to know.
What about it, Jordan?
I think they do, though I'm not a Mormon, so I can't say for sure.
But I do know that the Mormon Church is absolutely, without a doubt, based on I'll call it Freemasonry.
Both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were Freemasons.
They were very heavily involved in Freemasonic activities even at the time of his death and some very formidable historians and writers such as James Billington in The Fire and the Minds of Men.
He's a very good historian along with many others who have commented on Joseph Smith and Brigham Young's connections with the secret societies of Freemasonry.
I'm sure that there is a lot of Masonic stuff going on.
Alright, so we have covered a lot of Western religions.
What about the Eastern religions?
Hinduism, the Muslims, the Buddhists.
What about the other big religions around the world?
Well, they are the ones that were the actual Beginnings of all of this that we have on the West I mean the whole idea of all of this secret societies and orders Came out of the ancient East and so the assassins as I said in the Arabic orders We know that this is where these things have actually began Thousands and thousands of years ago and so much of our religions religious institutions are based on These formidable sects from the East from the ancient East
So, all of this is religion?
In other words, religion is the secret order?
I think so.
I think that's very accurate.
I think all of this can be tied back to ancient belief systems, priesthoods, and religion in general.
Yes.
Alright, I just wanted to clear that up.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
Hi Eric, this is Moki.
I live in Kenosha, Wisconsin.
Okay, you've got to speak up good and loud.
This is Mokey, I live in Kenosha, Wisconsin.
Right, I got that.
Go ahead.
I wanted to ask Jordan, well, I agree with everything that you said.
I've always believed that the government lies to us about everything and that we don't really know what's going on and that we've contacted aliens and that they have technological breakthroughs that we don't know about and that they control us through TV and radio and cable and newspapers.
And I had a theory and I wondered if you had heard of it and what you had to say about it was that I also believe that they lie to us about how many people there are on the planet.
They say there's five billion and really there's like closer to like a million people.
A million?
Excuse me?
When you watch on TV like the Indy 500 and then when you watch Like a sports show or a basketball game or a concert, those people in the audiences are either the same people that they use or holographic images.
All right, all right.
Thank you.
You want to identify with any of that, Jordan?
Well, I'm sure that there's more than a million people because I see that many on the freeways in the morning here.
So I'm sure that there's a lot more, but I appreciate his comment.
I'm sure that there's a lot more than I am.
It is interesting, though, bringing up about how the government lies to us, and I'm quite sure that happens all the time.
I know it does.
All right.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
Yes, I'm surprised you didn't think about our importation of a airbrush on the Nazis when they knew they were losing the war, and also the fact that the Pope We could have stopped the death camps by communicating to anybody that had anything to do with any of the extermination camps.
Alright, thank you.
The Nazis?
Well, let me tell you what we do know from actual factual records.
We do know that the Vatican provided the passports for all of the leading Nazi officers and generals and all of the leading Nazi officials so that they could Travel, once they saw that the regime was going down, the Vatican did supply the passports for the Nazis to go to Central and South America.
That we know for sure.
How do they explain that?
Well, because if you remember that Mussolini, the Italian dictator, was connected to, politically, Adolf Hitler, and the Pope of Rome was also very heavily connected to the government in Italy.
And consequently, it appears that the Pope was in league with, because he in fact did, Pope Pius XII, did in fact sign two concordances, or contracts, with Adolf Hitler.
I have pictures of him sitting with Adolf Hitler signing these contracts to give both
financing and political support to Adolf Hitler if he would then assure the church that it
would be the only religious institution allowed under the new order of the Nazi empire.
And so we know these things are actual factual history.
I can send you the documents proving it.
You can look in the encyclopedia or a dictionary under the word Concordat and it will tell
you it was a contract signed by Adolf Hitler and the Pope of Rome.
Hey Jordan, do you want to leave, do you want to give out a phone number or an address for
information or books or whatever?
Yes.
I want to also say I'm not attacking any particular organization.
That much does seem clear to me.
I've come to the view now that you're after all of them.
I'm after all of them.
It's a special interest, period.
My address, if you just write to Jordan Maxwell, P.O.
Box 7442.
Burbank, California.
7442 Burbank, California.
91510.
That's 91510.
And I have a phone also, if anyone is interested.
818-769-1071.
Give it again, please.
That's 818-769-1071.
Oh, you'll get some calls.
Well, I would hope so.
I have videos.
one is interested uh... eight one eight nine one oh
seven one give it again please uh... eight one eight area seven six nine
one oh seven one
well you'll get some calls so i wish i would hope so i have videos i have
videos which i have uh...
done uh... presentations which i have i I have slide presentations documenting everything I've been saying.
I have audio tapes and material, so if you're interested in any of this kind of research, I'll make it all available to you.
Give me a call or write me at the P.O.
Box 7442, Burbank, California, 91510.
All right.
Very good.
Back to the lines.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
Yes, Art.
It is my pleasure.
I'm a long-time listener, first-time caller, and I just wanted to pass along some things and ask a couple of questions.
I'd like to take my answer off the air.
I love the subject.
I know this is very volatile.
You're striking a lot of nerves out there.
I myself am a Freemason, and I'm a Scottish Rite Mason, and I'm third generation.
You know, there's a lot of good in masonry, and I wanted to put the plug in for that.
Do you want to admit to all this?
I myself am not privy to any of this stuff.
There's a lot of allegations.
Well, surely even at your level of masonry, if all of this would be true at the top, there would be lots and lots of rumors and talk of it, even at your level.
Well, that's the thing.
There's nothing but the absence of rumor.
All of my experience is nothing but good, good moral men that are trying to improve themselves and to make a positive influence in the world.
Well, my answer to that is that I also have experience in masonry, though I am not one, but members of my family were.
I understand what you're saying.
I am not in any way imputing anything bad to Freemasons as people, but I will tell you that there is something to be looked at in the history of the Scottish and York Rite as it is connected to the Grand Lodge in England.
And there's a lot of very important information I have on that.
If you'd like to write me, I'll send you all of this material and be happy to send it to you.
Aha!
So, Jordan, you are genetically a Mason.
Well, I've been connected to it for a long time.
I've been connected to it in that many members of my family have been Masons.
I have ministers or priests in my family.
Italian background, so like I said, my mother's uncle worked in the Vatican, so I'm not impugning badness to anyone.
I'm just saying that there are some very important things we need to know about how big government and big theology and big money operate.
And we need to look at this.
And there could very possibly be some information concerning these orders that we need to know as Americans.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
Hi, Art.
Hello.
Speak up good and loud.
Tell us where you're calling from.
My name's Bill.
I'm calling from Kenosha, Wisconsin.
All right.
Well, Art, can you tell me any of your personal experience with what is publicly unknown?
Because I want to know what makes you want to have this show.
Because I personally have never run into anything unusual.
Well, it's, I guess, well that's a little off topic here, but I like exploring areas that I have not previously explored and things that I don't know about and that's what makes me have this program and that's what has me uh... seeking mister maxwell on the air as well as others uh... the unknown uh... ideas that are new to you uh... many of you it's the idea expose yourself to new things first-time caller line you're on the air with jordan maxwell that i've done i'm doing all right where are you i'm fine i can't believe i got through my name is randy in the wall and yes randy uh... the comment i'd like to make got jordan with the first person i have heard
that had the same concerns I've had.
I've got a brother who's an assistant U.S. attorney, and I had an ex-stepfather who was a federal judge.
And the penal judicial system in America is such a disgrace.
All the people that fill the prisons in America are basically there for drugs
and for all these minor offenses and so forth.
And the few percentages of hardcore criminals that can't be, you know, conditioned with therapy
and released into society, if they cleared out all the people that didn't belong,
basically, there'd be so much room for people that do belong,
plus maybe white-collar crime, to me, which is, you know, total, total insanity.
Yeah, I agree with you 100%.
I totally agree.
It's funny, my ex-stepfather, who was a federal judge, would go around putting drug dealers in jail for 30 years, and then come home and get drunk, you know?
And I'd see this and go, it just doesn't make sense to me, you know?
Oh, I know.
I just wish I would have finished my school and became a lawyer, but one person can't fight the whole system, you know?
And the whole OJ trial is a complete sham.
I'm more for the defense just for the fact that I've never missed 2020 or Dateline or any of this stuff.
And there's so many prosecutors persecuting.
I consider them persecutors because They're putting so many people in jail.
My brother was a DA locally in New Orleans, and he said they're all in it for the money.
They want to make a name for themselves and get a paycheck.
All right, sir.
Thank you.
Of course, that's New Orleans, Louisiana, which, by the way, has probably more murders and more crime right now than any other city in the nation per population.
Yeah, and it's not by mere chance.
I don't think it's by mere chance that even in the state of California, we do not have a California justice system.
We don't have a Hello Art, I agree with a lot of the points that are being made by your guest.
here in california called the uh... california criminal
justice and i don't think it's by chance that they use those terms
why would they call it a criminal
justice right up west of the rockies you're on the air with jordan
maxwell or uh...
agree with the one of the point
uh... being played by uh... by your guest
uh... i'm uh...
thirty-second that's right but all right well i'm i'm hearing echo on you
for some reason Oh, really?
Yeah, you're a 32nd degree mason?
Yes.
And one point that I would like to make is that, like a hammer, a hammer can be used to build or destroy and religion And so many of these societies have been used for either good or bad.
I would agree with a lot of the points that your caller makes.
I don't see him as attacking anyone myself.
I appreciate that, but I'm not.
That's not my purpose to attack anyone, but I'm drawing attention to the fact that behind government And great theological movements have been societies and fraternal orders, and we here in America need to understand that if we're going to keep control over our country and our lives, we need to be given all the facts.
And we need to be able to look at all the facts, because the brain is like in a parachute.
It doesn't work if it's not open.
So we need to open our minds and open the history books and look at where we've come from as a people, because we're not going to continue to have our freedom.
If we keep putting our heads in the sand and we don't want to admit that we all have something to look at, and these secret societies and fraternal orders and special interests operating in this country need to be investigated and looked at.
And I am totally convinced that if we don't do that soon, we're not going to be able to continue to be free in this country.
Just out of idle curiosity, Jordan, but with what you're saying, if what you said were to be true, and these organizations have the power that you're suggesting They're trying to gather.
They'd kill you.
They may yet.
I'm just starting.
Well, it's true.
I had an FBI man here in Southern California call me and say, we've been watching you for some time.
And the people who work in the FBI, he said the working class people in the FBI appreciate what you're doing.
We appreciate what you're doing.
We are wholeheartedly behind you and your efforts to try and wake the people up.
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