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March 19, 1995 - Art Bell

01:32:10

Dreamland with Art Bell - Linda Moulton Howe - Unexplained Phone Calls - The Dark Side of Religion - Jordan Maxwell

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18:26

jordan maxwell

59:01

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe, but don't see.
		This is Dreamland.
		Indeed, it is.
		Another Sunday evening and Dreamlands on the air.
		Hi, everybody.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		As you just heard, on this program, we explore areas not so easily pinned down and put in a box.
		I'd like to welcome a whole raft of new radio stations to the network.
		KTBR AM in Roseburg, Oregon.
		Welcome.
		Another in the family of the Oregon stations.
		WINK AM in Fort Myers, Florida.
		Welcome to Dreamland and the network.
		Good to have you on board.
		Another Florida station.
		WTDY in Madison, Wisconsin.
		Welcome.
		KHSN in Coos Bay, Oregon.
		Welcome.
		And KDWN.
		It's been a long wait for some people in Las Vegas for Dreamland, but you are online.
		So welcome to that entire group of radio stations.
		Great to have you online.
		First, as always, we will go to Philadelphia, and we will speak in a moment with Linda Howell.
		Then, coming up, Jordan Maxwell, who will talk about a chapter of a book he wrote called The Book the Church Doesn't Want You to Read.
		And he'll focus on religious texts, implications that human history has been manipulated by non-human entities, pretending to be gods, pretending to be gods and angels.
		And that should be fascinating.
		He'll also talk some about Area 51.
		That was odd.
		And now, Jordan Maxwell.
		Jordan, welcome to the program.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
		I'm going to put you over on another place here, Jordan.
		Hold on just one second.
		Let me put you over here.
		And are you there?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good, Jordan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I'm in Burbank, California, downtown, beautiful Burbank.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Downtown Burbank.
		All right.
		Jordan, I don't have a bio on you.
		I have a little bit of information that Linda sent me.
		We've only got a minute before the bottom of the hour.
		Tell us about Jordan Maxwell.
		Who are you?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I am an author and a teacher and a lecturer, and I've dealt for many years with the subject of the occult societies, ancient theologies, secret societies, and their influence on us today in our modern day world, and especially how it influences our theological and political concepts and belief systems.
		I believe that the more we change, the more we stay the same, that so much of what we believe and understand today has been around for thousands and thousands of years.
		And as you introduced me a while ago, I really wasn't interested in talking about the book necessarily, but I do have a book out with Steve Allen called the book Your Church Does Not Want You to Read.
		It's a general anthology on the background of ancient religions and where a lot of the concepts and ideas have come from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're going to get to the part that the church doesn't want us to know about, I'm sure, and I'm sure that it involves the way we were placed on earth.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that obviously has something to do with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought so.
		I guess that.
		All right, Jordan.
		That gives them a little teaser.
		We're going to break here at the bottom of the hour, and we'll be right back to you.
		Stay right there.
		Jordan Maxwell, sounds like it should be a fascinating night.
		Conventional wisdom, Jordan, says that either we came from the slime and sort of crawled our way onto land at some point, and then process of evolution finally got us here the way we are now, or the Creator, the man we call the being that we call God, put us here, as in Adam and Eve and the Bible.
		Are you saying it didn't occur either one of those ways?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, I'm not saying I know for sure, but I think that there's a lot more we need to know about how the Bible came into existence and how so much of what is in the Old Testament was actually based on even earlier records.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		And I personally think that maybe intervention into our evolution might be a place to start to look how we got here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How would you go about making the case for intervention?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can't do it as well as those who have written on the subject.
		There have been some very illuminating studies done on how the ancient creatures that we find that are rather similar to man, and we know that they've been around for thousands and thousands of years, and then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, pops up the human as we know it today.
		And the jump in evolution or the jump in the creation just cries out that someone intervened in our evolution.
		And I don't know that much about the particular subject, but I am inclined to believe that there has been some sort of an intervention.
		Because when you read in the Old Testament that God said, let us make man in our image, immediately you have a problem, as most Bible students, with who is us and our.
		And then later on it says that man has become as one of us.
		Talking with a rabbi many years ago, he made the point that when you read that particular scripture where God said, come, let us Make man, it was not saying that God was creating man at that point.
		It was actually saying, Come, let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, implying that man was already here, but for being so great, he wasn't that great, and consequently, whoever they were or whoever God is, it's talking to himself, someone is saying, let's take what is here and refashion it.
		Let's make man in our image, after our likeness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, do you think there was an event like the obelisk in 2001 or something of that nature?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if I recall, there was a picture in one of Zachariah Sitchin's works that pictured a human laying on a table with glass rods going into the body and people standing around it.
		And this was all the way back to the Sumerian era.
		I'm just wondering, and I don't know for sure, this is not a field in which I am proficient in, but I just wonder if we weren't in some way or another manipulated into being the creatures that we are today by some higher force.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let me talk about something for a second that I think you are somewhat familiar with.
		My Area 51.
		I say my Area 51 because it is just adjacent to me here.
		Jordan, what are they doing there?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, I went up to see Pat and Joe, good friends of mine, up at Little Ailey Inn.
		And I took two friends with me, Paul Pice, a publisher, and Ivy West, a lady from Hawaii who has a radio show, and she happened to be in town at the time.
		And I was on my way to speak at Mesquite, I believe it was.
		And I was speaking at a UFO Congress there.
		This was the first weekend in December.
		And on our way back on a Sunday morning, the three of us decided that we would go up to Area 51 because the three of us had never been there.
		We met and we had lunch up there and talked with the people.
		And then when they were closing up that night, the little alien, I asked Joe, well, where do we go to see UFOs?
		And so he said, well, if you're going to see anything, go out to the right, go out on the highway, turn right and go a couple of miles and you'll see a black mailbox.
		Well, we were so excited, the two people with myself.
		And so we drove out onto the highway and I turned left instead of right.
		And we drove about almost 20 miles looking for a black mailbox and talking and not realizing we're going in the wrong direction.
		And we got out and so when we finally decided we'd gone too far and it's too late and we need to turn around, we stopped to turn the car around and right where we stopped happened to be a very well-kept dirt road leading off into the desert.
		And of course, it occurred to all of us that, well, maybe we'll take a drive on the dirt road and see where it goes.
		So we did.
		And we drove about three miles into the dirt road, and that night in particular was very overcast.
		It was rather windy, overcast.
		The clouds were moving very quickly.
		And so we were driving, as I said, about three miles into the interior of the desert, and all of a sudden I got spooked.
		I really legitimately became afraid that we were somewhere we were not supposed to be.
		It just occurred to me.
		And I said, look, I'm going to turn around and go back because we're not supposed to be here.
		And so they said, well, look, we've already come this far.
		And it's this late.
		At least we can do is stop for a few moments.
		So it sounded halfway reasonable.
		So I said, well, just for a couple of minutes.
		So we turned the car around, shut the lights off, and we got out.
		I have no idea where we are, out in the middle of nowhere.
		And we looked all around.
		There was nothing on the horizons anywhere.
		And then above our head, we looked up, and lo and behold, there were two large round, glowing white plate or sponsor-shaped things.
		And I have no idea the world were.
		And while watching these two things floating, they were not flying, but they were coming from north, going south, right over the top of our heads, right at the cloud line.
		And then right behind them were five others that broke out of the clouds.
		And there were seven brilliantly white, glowing brown things.
		And as I said, I had no idea in the world what, in fact, we were looking at.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jordan, being something of a ufologist and with a lot of interest in Area 51, after all going to Area 51, of course you had your handicam there, right?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		No, not really.
		Not even a little brownie camera.
		Nothing.
		Nothing at all.
		So I don't know what the world it was, and I have no idea in the world why we didn't have anything, but we didn't.
unidentified		So that was too bad, but we didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		So that was it.
		So we didn't have anything at all, and we were not able to take any pictures.
		And I'll tell you, I don't think that we were able, I don't think we would have been able to take pictures at all, because I suspect that we would not have been able to actually photograph these things because I believe they had the ability to mask themselves from a camera.
		So I don't think it would have done us any good if we had to have that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jordan, what do you know about Area 51, aside from the sighting that you just had?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I really don't know that much about it.
		It's history.
		As I said, I talked with my friends up there, and they gave me a little bit of the background.
		I'll tell you what I feel.
		My gut feeling about Area 51, and that area where we call the little alien is located.
		Once you go up there, you have to be there yourself to understand what I'm saying.
		There is a definite, definite feeling there that there's something going on and that there's definitely something spiritual happening there.
		And so I am totally sure that there's something going on up there, but I just don't know what yet.
		And so I'm fascinated by that place.
		And I really don't know what to say about the military part of it.
		That was one of the things that was frightening me, really, and legitimately scaring me, is that I wasn't really too worried about what we were seeing in the sky as much as I was what maybe the military was going to come down on our heads, and we were out in the middle of nowhere, and they could take us away, and we'd never be found before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I think they have a civilian security service up there.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, probably.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jordan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You talk a great deal about symbols and mythology?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that is actually the subject which I am most interested in, is the influence of secret societies and fraternal orders on us today and how they affect us.
		And that's the thing that I have been very interested in for some time.
		If you go back into the occult symbols that are used in religion and the secret societies of paternal orders, you will find that we're using the same symbols today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm hearing something in the background there, Jordan.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I am too.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, just a minute.
unidentified		Okay.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's a much better phone, Jordan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whatever it was you were using, don't use it again.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is much better.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, very good.
		Now, back to what I was saying.
		Occult symbols and emblems and how they have been used in the ancient world is very important to understand because these same symbols and emblems are being used today.
		And it's a fascinating study when you get into the secret societies and the fraternal orders.
		And that has been the one place where I have always been fascinated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, give us an example.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me explain how I got into this.
		My mother had an uncle, when I was a child, had an uncle who worked in the Vatican Secretary of State's office.
		And on occasions, every couple of years, he would come back to visit the family.
		And he would talk for hours with my father and friends about the intrigue going on throughout the world from the Vatican Secretary of State's office viewpoint.
		I had two uncles who are retired federal judges.
		My great-grandfather was a senator from the state of Florida.
		So Senator Claude Pepper was a good friend of our family.
		So I grew up listening to politics and religion from behind the scenes.
		And I became aware at a very early age that there's just not too much difference between politics and religion.
		As one of my uncles used to say, that there's never been a political movement in the world that wasn't a little religious, and there's never been a religious movement that wasn't a little political.
		So I have come to understand since then.
		I started my research into this quite legitimately because I was fascinated listening to these people talk, and I began back in 59.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jordan, what were you trying to determine?
		I understand the fascination with religion and politics, but as you went back, what were you trying to figure out?
		What was the basis of the beginning of the search?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, good question.
		I got the idea, somehow or another, the idea got across to me that the whole story behind religion and politics and the ancient world is a story that has been systematically kept from view by the powers that be in almost all civilizations and in all nations, that there has always existed.
		And I'm just grabbing for generally thoughts which led me to do my research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the obvious question is, what were they trying to hide from you?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think because the mystery schools of the ancient world were designed to protect certain very valuable knowledge, which was not to be allowed to the profane or to the mundane people.
		And so there was an occult or hidden, and I should clarify that the word occult simply means hidden, that there were hidden influences in government and religion all the way back into the Sumerian and pre-Sumerian Egyptian times.
		There were priesthoods.
		And those priesthoods were the holders of wisdom and knowledge, and that kind of wisdom was not given to the common people.
		And I believe, and I was able to deduce that from hearing the kind of conversation, that that was still going on today.
		There is much knowledge that is readily available to those who are in a position to obtain it, but that there is much that has been hidden from us.
		And I don't think that that is in keeping with the American system where certain societies and groups would keep knowledge from the people.
		And consequently, I decided to, on my own, try to get to the bottom of where all of this stuff, you might say, comes from.
		Where did all of these religious concepts and belief systems originate?
		I'm born in December 28th, so I'm told I'm Capricorn, which is the searcher out to the ends of all things.
		And that's really true for me because I have always been interested to go to the back and go to the bottom line to see where did things originate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm still trying to understand, though.
		Did you hear a conversation when you were young?
		Did you hear somebody say something that led you to believe there were great secrets that mankind, somehow or a few of mankind possessed that we didn't know about?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and not exactly in those words, but the general tenor of the conversation was that I remember my mother saying, don't repeat these things that you hear the men talking about.
		The general idea was that there is a priesthood or an order of power in the world.
		And these people, For instance, a classic example I can give you today is that group that meets up in Northern California, the Bohemian Society.
		The Bohemian Society meets for a couple of weeks in July every year, and their symbol, they have a symbol, and they have ceremonies in front of bonfires at 12 midnight.
		And I have pictures of this, where presidents and all of the big shots in government and industry meet for two weeks out of the year, as I said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard of it.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		And they have an owl.
		They have an owl that looks to be at least 12 to 15 feet high.
		And this owl stands in front of a bonfire, and I see all of these important people dressed in capes and robes, and they're all dressed in.
		And then the article said that the owl is used by them to symbolize wisdom because you can see things in the dark.
		Obviously, the people who lead this world are very wise because they can, like the owl, can see things in the dark, implying that there is a whole world of knowledge out there that we're not privy to as normal citizens.
		And I think it's an idea whose time has come to at least make people aware of some of the tricks of the trade of politics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what do you think goes on at these meetings?
		I mean, somehow in my mind's eye, I just picture our Vice President and President Clinton dancing around a giant owl.
		And I'm trying to figure out what you think goes on at these meetings.
		I mean, is there some imparting of knowledge or sharing of knowledge, or is it sort of like a ritual?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I think rituals have a lot to do with it.
		I think that there are certain spiritual values and knowledge which is held in common by the association which is acted out in ritual.
		As I said, the fire beneath the owl, there are obviously overtones, occult symbols, and emblems which have a cult overtone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An obvious question would be, many of the rich and powerful are said to be interested in an international single order or the one world government, if you want.
unidentified		Is it somehow all related to that?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I tend to believe yes.
		I think so.
		And even just a general business acumen would tell me that it's easier to manipulate one government than 250.
		So if you're going to manipulate government, why don't you just have one government?
		And then you can control the entire world.
		And this is not so foolish as it might sound.
		It sounds like a melodrama for a movie, but it does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The secret of the belly or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then I would even further speculate that somehow all of this world source.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is one of the things which I totally believe.
		I think that there is some sort of a connection between the world government, if you please, some sort of an overstate over the world.
		And most...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		And consequently, if there is, in fact, some sort of a system in which all nations are aware and they honor certain things, even if they get cantankerous and get out of line, all nations and politicians and diplomats are aware that there is a world order of sorts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jordan, hold it right there.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		Relax.
		We'll be back to you.
		We will try to make some sort of galactic sense of all of this.
		When we come back, Jordan Maxwell is my guest, and you're listening to Dreamland.
unidentified		Dreamland is a production of the U.S. Department of State.
		From the Kingdom of Nine, you're here in Dreamland with Art Bell.
		To participate in the program, call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
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		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is.
		Dreamland underway for a Sunday evening.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		It's a busy night.
		All right, to Jordan Maxwell.
		Jordan, are you there?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Linda Howe mentioned in her piece, The Rising Sun.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and that caught my attention because that's a symbol that I have been very familiar with for a long time.
		And the implications of the rising sun are horrendous because we can take that all the way back, as I said before.
		Much of the symbolism goes back into the ancient and prehistoric world.
		I don't believe there's ever been a symbol used more frequently and more widely used than that of the rising sun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it wouldn't make sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, early man, Jordan, would have, I think, worshipped the sun, would have looked at the sun as one of the biggest things in his world.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		And the sun represented life.
		It represented warmth and light on the earth and life, L-I-F-E, life on the earth.
		But it also is a very important symbol in the occult societies of Freemasonry.
		For instance, the communist symbols that are used during the Communist Party and Soviet Union.
		The Soviet national coat of arms used the rising sun.
		The Nazi symbol of the swastika was the sun in motion.
		If you go through a flag book, flags of the world and halitry, you will find the sun in its rising as a symbol that is used by almost every culture in the world.
		And that's why it's a very important symbol.
		And as you say, it's because the sun was so important to ancient men.
		But I'm saying that there is another significant connection can be made to that rising sun symbol in that it represents spiritual and intellectual enlightenment.
		And consequently, it was used as a symbol in the illuminated societies, or even the Bavarian Illuminati used the rising sun to symbolize the coming of an age of enlightenment that would be dominated by the different various societies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, enlighten me a little.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is the Illuminati?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there were many different Illuminatis as such.
		The Jesuits were referred to as Illuminati.
		The Bavarian Illuminati, of which has been fairly well talked about in political circles, was a southern German order of Freemasons who infiltrated into the Grand Lodge of England and had for a time great sway as if it were a secret society within a society.
		Freemasonry was already well in existence in England and in Europe in 1717 is when it was founded.
		And in 1775, 74, 75, and 76, the Bavarian Illuminati, which was a hybrid occult order, insinuated itself and moved into and joined itself to the Grand Lodge of England and became very powerful in its ability to manipulate Masonic government edicts
		and education, etc.
		And so the influence of secret societies, as I said, on government has been an issue which people have been looking at for some time.
		I particularly believe that the governments of the world today are in fact being very heavily influenced and manipulated by fraternal orders, secret societies.
		A classic example of the kind of thing I'm talking about is you go to any good university and there's going to be things which are called Greek letter societies.
		Physicians have their own fraternal orders.
		Attorneys have their fraternal orders.
		Politics has its own.
		And so I believe that so much of what we see happening in our country, and I'm mostly concerned with our country, that so much of our politics, our religion, our social institutions are being directed behind the scenes by secret societies, fraternal orders, even those societies which are semi-secret and supposedly Open for review.
		I believe that, for instance, behind what we call Scottish and York Rite, I believe is a higher degree of Freemasonry.
		And consequently, I find no fault with the Freemason next door, but I do believe that behind British Freemasonry is a higher form of occult Freemasonry.
		And so I'm very concerned about the influence that secret societies, fraternal orders have on us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jordan, let me say something, and maybe you can come back at me in some way.
		I am not a great believer in conspiracy theory.
		And if you look at the world today, to imagine that a single entity of any sort or a single secret society or even a group of them are in charge is to me ludicrous because, Jordan, there is so much disorder in the world, and I mean disorder, that it's hard to imagine there's any central control.
		How do you refute that?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not saying that there is one all-encompassing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or even many.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Or even many.
		But I do, if you will recall, Freemasonry, the Grand Lodge Freemasonry, that which we call the Scottish Rite Freemasonry, has a symbol on their lodges, Ordo ob Chao, order out of chaos.
		And the idea is that with the influence of powerful forces behind the scenes, you can bring order out of the chaos that we see.
		We know, for instance, that much of the that we have in the streets and the crime that we have in this country is organized.
		We even have a term, organized crime.
		So I don't find that it's, I mean, I believe that most of what we see happening in our world today, wars and the revolutions and the bloodshed and all the anarchy going on, I believe someone is causing it.
		I do not subscribe to the theory that things just happen, because I know better.
		I know that in big business and big money and big government, things don't just happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the wars we've had, the great social disruptions that we've had, these have been orchestrated plants.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I think so, yes.
		I think that for the most part they have been.
		They have been heavily influenced.
		And even the organizationally accepted reference books and history books will talk about conspiratorial apparatus going on in Germany and in England.
		And we have such things as Benzentine conspiracies.
		And we know that there has been this kind of thing going on.
		I mean, why would there, in law enforcement today in this country, federal, state, and local, why do they have divisions called the criminal conspiracies divisions if there isn't such a thing as a criminal conspiracy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we know that organizations...
		Wait a minute.
		Why would a criminal conspiracies division imply that that group themselves was a criminal conspiracy?
		In other words, they are organized to try and find criminal conspiracies, and it doesn't take too much imagination to know that criminals conspire.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you've just answered what I said.
		I'm not saying that the entire world is in the hands of one group or one group of societies, but I'm saying that the concept of a criminal conspiracy is something that we have always dealt with.
		There have always been brotherhoods and secret societies and fraternal orders and the assassins and the religious orders.
		We know that these things go on throughout the world.
		They always have.
		I'm just saying that it's logical to me that if there are many other smaller societies manipulating or causing chaos or causing disruption, why couldn't there be an organized effort on the part of very powerful people who have the money and the background and the experience to frighten people into doing things that they would not ordinarily do?
		We know Hitler did that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then the next logical question is, to what end?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, what motivation or what motive do these people have?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that they have various motives at different times in history.
		We know that Adolf Hitler used chaos in the streets and bloodshed to frighten the people.
		I believe that that's, this is my opinion.
		I believe that our government has allowed, purposely allowed, according to a plan, allowed violence to go on, allowed terrorism to go on.
		And when people are found guilty of terrorist acts, murder, in fact, that they are eventually allowed to go back on the streets.
		And we know that that is true, that we do put many criminals back on the streets because we just don't have room for them.
		However, if you don't pay your income taxes, they will find why they allow murderers back on the street is because there is a very small percentage of 1% in the population killers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as a matter of fact, I think, Jordan, the statistics show that about 7% of the criminals commit some incredible percentage of the violent crime that goes on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, it's a very small nucleus of very recidivistic criminals.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
		And if you were to take them out of society, and of course the powers that be, we're talking about law enforcement and government, pretty well know with the high technology we have today, they pretty well know who they are and most usually know where they are.
		Now if they wanted to take them out of society and therefore take out this threat of violence and rape and mayhem, they could do it.
		And this government is the most powerful entity on earth.
		And if they chose to take someone out of service, they could do it very easily.
		They got a hold of Adolf Hitler on the field of battle throughout the world 60 years ago when they were a lot less sophisticated than they are now.
		They were able to get a hold on the great evil empire of the Soviet Union.
		This country is able to get a hold on anybody at any time they please.
		They will send in the military and bring you back to this country anytime they please.
		This government that we live under is a very powerful entity.
		Consequently, if the violence continues, if the lawlessness continues, the drugs are coming in by the boat fulls, it's because someone, I believe, is looking the other way purposely.
		And I would go a step further and say that there is influence in our government to allow this kind of crime to go on because it's good for politics.
		I have heard judges talk about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and you think that influence would be the secret societies.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Because I know that, for instance, a classic example is that the Mafia itself is a Masonic order.
		It was founded by Giuseppe Mazzini and Garibaldi of Italy, both high-degree Freemasons.
		And so much of the underworld is a Masonic order.
		They use Masonic symbolism.
		It's a fascinating story when you get behind all of these different societies and criminal societies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what about all the good the Masons do?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not talking about the guy that lives next door to you.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not talking about the people who live down the street.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The local lodges.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the local lodges.
		I'm talking about occult Freemasonry, those societies within societies.
		As I said, the Grand Lodge era, the Grand Lodge of England was founded in 1717.
		But in 1774, 75, Illuminati Freemasonic, the Illuministic Freemasons, moved into Freemasonry and began using it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How does all of this, or even the higher realms of the Freemasons, connect to anything beyond the human race?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if we go back to the building of the pyramid, the whole idea of being a Freemason comes from the word Masonic or Mason.
		And we know that that word is used in relation to anyone who builds with bricks.
		And if you go back to Egypt, all of these symbols and emblems that are used in modern-day masonry go back to Egypt because they were the great builders of temples and pyramids with brick.
		And of course, there were other great temples before Egypt, but the symbolism is primarily Egyptian today.
		And they were the great brick builders.
		And so consequently, today when you go to college or high school and you graduate, you get a degree and you come out with a square martyr.
		Square martyr that you wear when you graduate comes from the martyr that brick masons or plasterers and brick masons use in building with plaster and cement and bricks.
		So that when you were even using those symbols in education, in universities, the symbolism is just profound once you get into it and see how all of these things have come down to us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The presumption being that mankind could not have, with technology at the time, built the pyramids.
		Hence, it was extraterrestrial technology that gave the otherwise earthly masons the ability to put all this together.
		Is that about right?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I tend to find that that's probably about right, in my opinion.
		I think that the people who built the pyramid, the peoples who built that pyramid, if they were people at all, had cosmic companionship in their work.
		I mean, they said they did.
		All of the ancient cults and societies go all the way back to Babylon.
		I have always talked about the influence of the gods on their work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that secrets then were imparted that the Masons or Masonry today retains?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
		And I think that that is quite true.
		And even the architecture today which is used, architects will tell you that there is, you know, going back to the Middle Ages, there were the trades, the architectural trades, and they were called Masonic Orders.
		And from that, we get our modern day unions and the idea of protecting the crafts.
		They call it craft masonry.
		We have something called state craft that is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is a new hotel in Las Vegas that is definitely a pyramid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if the masons had anything to do with that.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I shouldn't be a bit surprised.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I want you to hold on for a second.
		I want to get the numbers out.
		We're about to open up the lines when we come back from the bottom of the hour break.
		So if you would like to call us, here are the phone numbers.
		First-time callers at Area Code 702-27-1222.
		I feel like I ought to set up a line for Masons past a certain degree.
		Wildcard lines, area code 702-727-1295.
		Toll-free, west of the Rockies, 1-800-618-8255.
		That's 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, it's 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		My guest is Jordan Maxwell.
		We're talking about ancient symbols and groups and mythology, and we'll be right back.
		All right.
		Without pulling punches, Jordan, are you there?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, fair.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to just deliver this to you the way it came over the facts, and I want to get your response.
		Art, I am disappointed that you would give this man a forum.
		As a Jew, I know that conspiracy theories are as deadly as any fighting words.
		Please ask him, what is the difference between Freemasonry and Catholicism, or the difference between Catholicism and Judaism?
		And I think you'll uncover his true colors.
		What about it, Jordan?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I consider Freemasonry a fraternal order coming out of the 1717 England based on the old operative Masonic orders or the old operative orders of Freemasonry coming from the Middle Ages.
		And today, Scottish and York White Freemasonry is nothing more than a fraternal order operating in something called speculative Freemasonry.
		It's not necessarily made up of people who actually work with bricks, but now it is the philosophers and business people of the world who also are members of Masonic orders.
		But when we get into the Catholic Church, I believe the Catholic Church itself is a Masonic order of sorts in that it is based on some ancient cults that have come out of the ancient world.
		Its symbolism is very easily traced back to both Syria, Persia, Egypt, and especially the Sumerian and Babylonian.
		I don't know what the person was getting at.
		I haven't mentioned anything about Judaism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you haven't.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't intend to.
		I'm just talking about the mere fact that we do have societies operating in the world.
		Doctors will tell you that.
		They belong to societies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's try this one.
		Art, ask your guest, what is behind the war in Northern Ireland?
		Does the new truths mean some hidden groups have united?
		If so, why?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I think that probably has something to do with it.
		I was interested in that Because I have some great color pictures of the marches of the different groups operating in Northern Ireland, and they are very much Masonic.
		Even some of the articles coming out of Northern Ireland talk about the Masonic Brotherhoods who have joined together to fight the British, and then there are others who are there to establish British rule, secret society.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the answer, in short, is yes.
		Hiart, please ask your guest to tell you about Albert Pike and the book he has written and the subjects that he talks about in his book, Morals and Dogma.
		I think it'll blow you out of the water, will it?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, Albert Pike has been considered the great pre-Masonic high priest, and that he was during the Civil War and after.
		He was probably very heavily connected with the Order of the Golden Circle and the Order of the Golden Triangle, which later joined and became known as the Klu Klux Klan.
		And so Albert Pike has had some very racist comments in his book, Morals and Dogma.
		But I don't feel much like talking about Albert Pike over and above the fact that he was very heavily involved in politics of his time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All this does not somehow connect to anti-Semitism or racism, does it?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
unidentified		No.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Matter of fact, some of the most maligned people in the world have been Jews.
		I believe that Jews have been maligned because someone behind the scene seeks to cause if they're going to do something, if a criminal society is going to do something, it would be better to have a scapegoat in case you get caught.
		And consequently, I believe Jews have been made a scapegoat by other societies who are not Jewish at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wanted to get that clear.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		And some of the most important people in this country today are very, you know, very important and wealthy people in the country we know have a tremendous influence on our government or very Protestant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, having said all that, to the telephones.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes.
		Hello, Mr. Bell, Mr. Maxwell.
		Very, very interesting.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		This is my first time hearing Dreamland.
		On your dissertation regarding intervention, I guess most people think divine intervention like a term.
		And I just wanted to point out that in Genesis 6, 2, it says, and I quote, and the sons of God found the daughters of men fair and went into them, which certainly suggests commingling or intercourse, the possibility of a little higher species.
		On the other issue, going back way before the illusion mysteries, way back before the Sumerians, these ancient mysteries and wisdoms were not evil to begin with because there is documentation that Jesus spent time at the pyramids, you know, in studies.
		But when men, we'll say evil men, found out about it, they infiltrate it.
		But it's not the symbols themselves that are evil.
		It's what men did to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		I'm calling from Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Las Vegas and KWN.
		Excellent.
		Glad to have you along.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		I agree with you.
		You agree with her.
		In other words, it is not the symbols of themselves are not evil.
		Are not evil.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		It's how they're used and by who they're used.
		But the point is that there are societies and organizations and organized societies and some good and some bad.
		And I'm saying that we know that there are societies which are dedicated to overthrows of governments.
		Even the Freemasons will admit that the Illuminati did in fact operate within Freemasonry at a time, and that's even in their own literature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
		Hello.
unidentified		Do you know who Texmar is?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know that much about him, but I know who you mean.
unidentified		But basically, he's saying the same thing you are, but the Illuminati is like Satan worshipers?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, as I said, there's quite a bit of literature out, and a lot of it is very legitimate and very good research material on secret societies, et cetera, and the satanic groups.
		And we have a lot of that going on, and I'm aware of his writings.
		I'm trying to stay middle of the road and just make the point that there are some very powerful societies at work throughout the world that we need to take our heads out of the ground and actually look at the very good possibility.
		Because we know that even in our own country that there are parties, we call them the Democratic and Republican Party.
		They're groups, the power groups.
		We even have a term special interests.
		And the people of the country are always at war and at odds with special interests.
		Well, I'm talking about orders of people and fraternal orders.
		Why do you think it has that on the back of the $1 bill, the Novus Ordo Siplorum, or the New Order of the World?
		So we're talking about an order of things.
		I mean, Adolf Hitler called his monstrosity an order of things, the new order.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, ma'am, where are you?
unidentified		In Wichita.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wichita.
		All right.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		The New World Order.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		The word New World Order, it's actually the New Order or the New Secular World Order.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The godless world.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what I find interesting about that is that there's been so much written about that, but I have at least seven major reference works which I have photocopied articles from on the chief cornerstone or the triangle on the pyramid.
		And all seven of these reference works, most have been found in theological seminaries.
		The word for the Messiah in Hebrew, in think it's Psalms 118, 22, the Messiah is referred to as the chief cornerstone, the builders rejected.
		And then twice in the New Testament, Jesus is referred to as the chief cornerstone, the builders rejected.
		The word seems to be a Greek word, which means, in the New Testament, a Greek word which means a triangle which sits on top of a pyramid.
		It's a pyramid on.
		And so the pyramid, I believe, the original pyramid, the Cheops, the one we call Cheops pyramid, I believe is a very important religious symbol put here by deity, the divine.
		I don't know how you would, you know, how you view the divine, but God as such.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you view the divine?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is the divine an extraterrestrial, Jordan?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I believe that the divine, I believe in a, well, I have two concepts that I'm trying to intermingle in my mind for years.
		I believe in an overall spiritual force in the universe that, for lack of a better term, we could just call the presence of God.
		I believe in the presence of a divine force in the universe.
		But I'm also very suspicious that there could be other life forms out there that are more highly advanced than we and who have come here and intervened in our evolution and continue to this day to intervene in our lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you think you saw at Area 51?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that I don't know.
		I really don't know what it was I saw at Area 51, but I'll tell you, if what I actually, if what we, the three of us, saw at Area 51, was real, if it was not a holograph bounced down on our atmosphere by a satellite, if it was a real things we were seeing, then one of two things is true.
		Either our technology, and I mean human technology, has far, far surpassed anything that we normally would think that we have, or there is, in fact, an extraterrestrial presence here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, gee, either way, it's an interesting story.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		From Fort Smith, Arkansas.
unidentified		KWHN is now carrying Dreamland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excellent.
unidentified		As of tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I've always suspected of the supernatural.
		And here a few, about two years ago, I've had some experience in a certain area that has changed my life.
		And I've seen some things that you just can't put in words.
		But one question that I had, I believe there's a balance in that power.
		But in the period of history called the Dark Ages, did that have any significant power shift or swing one way to the other in your theories?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		That's an interesting point.
		I had never really thought about that, actually.
		If we're to understand that extraterrestrial life forms have influenced us in our evolution, in our theology, in government, then it's a very good point that maybe some evil forces were at work to keep the human race in the dark.
		We know that at that time, the church, the Catholic Church, was the dominating force and that only the priests were allowed to be educated.
		And so out of that came what was called the Dark Ages.
		And of course, with the Age of Enlightenment or the Renaissance, there began a revolution or a rebellion against that kind of thing.
		And so it gave birth to a new age of enlightenment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jordan, these secrets that we talk about, that the society shares, or that the rich and powerful share, who knows, are these documented, are these secrets somewhere on some holy grail kept from our eyes?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if so, where do you think that somewhere is?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd be very interested if I ever, before I pass away, I'd like to be able to know what was in the Vatican Library that was taken from the Alexandrian Library and the ancient text and all of these ancient things which have been kept from our eyes in the Vatican Library.
		I know that in the Himalaya mountains there are just an incredible collection of ancient documents.
		And one never knows where these things are.
		But I'm sure that there is a whole mystery school still in operation today throughout the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's keep moving.
		We have a lot of callers.
		First-time caller line, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
		Hi.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Is this Gordon Maxwell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jordan Maxwell, turn your radio off, sir, and tell us where you're calling from.
unidentified		I'm calling from Carmel, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Yeah, I will.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, go ahead.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm calling from Carmel.
		Right.
		I've been listening to you a lot, and I enjoy it.
		First of all, I'd like to say that the Protestant Freemasons were augmented by the Catholic Knights of Columbus.
		And it had nothing to do with Freemasonry, but were competitive because the Catholics thought they needed a group to compete with the Freemasons.
		So there are two different, completely different groups.
		One is the Knights of Columbus, and the other is the Freemasons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it seems to me, and Jordan, you might want to comment on this.
		If you've got enough secret societies all in some way in competition with each other or trying to attain power or influence or whatever you do with secret societies, that the end result would be a kind of a chaotic mess anyway.
		So instead of some conspiracy that's doing something specific, they're all in contention and we have chaos.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, my answer to that is I'm not saying that there is one overall all-encompassing conspiratorial apparatus over the world.
		However, that is not foreign to Christianity because Christianity, all Christians will understand and remember that the Scripture says the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one, that there is a demonic force behind The governments in the world that we know today,
		the Apostle Paul, it was Paulinist New Testament theology that said that we are at war not with flesh and blood, but with principalities and secret societies and powers behind the throne, spiritual entities.
		So the whole idea of secret societies and even one great order of secret society operating in the world is not foreign to Christianity.
		So in the mere fact that in the old times, in the Old Testament, every time angels appeared to the prophets or to the people in the Bible, they always appeared in the form of men.
		And even in the New Testament theology, the Apostle Paul says to be hospitable to all men, for some have entertained angels unaware.
		The implication being is that you could be talking to an angel and don't even realize it.
		So the mere fact that someone like myself would say that it is at least possible, if not plausible, that extraterrestrials may look like us, may have created us in their image, and we might in fact be talking to one and wouldn't even know it, has a lot of credibility in Christianity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Very quickly, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		My name's Randy.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I'm calling from Chandler.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chandler, Arizona.
unidentified		Charlotte.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not East of the Rockies, are you?
unidentified		No, I bet you I called the wrong one, didn't I?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll bet you did.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oregon, all right.
unidentified		Okay, my name's Janine.
		And I'd like to say that I agree with his comment about crime in America, saying that if we wanted to do away with these violent criminals...
		That we could do it, and it hasn't been done.
		And it's very bizarre that we're in a country that would keep people in prison for long terms for the use of marijuana, yet allow rapers and murderers out after a very small time spent in prison.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can agree more.
		I agree, too.
		I mean, it is a nonsensical policy.
		There's no question about it.
		Jordan, we are again at the top of the hour, so we've got to pause here.
		All right.
		Pause we shall.
		If you must leave us at this hour, I'm sorry.
		There is one more hour to go, but it will not be carried by all stations.
		Hopefully, KDWN, which just picked up the show, will indeed begin carrying the third hour soon.
		I just wanted to mention that, and we'll be right back in all other time zones.
unidentified		The End It's the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're back now to Jordan Maxwell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you there, Jordan?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I have a quote I'd like to quote in relation to our economic situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, go right on.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Back in 1948, the book Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, Brave New World, in the introduction written by Julian Huxley, has an interesting quotation.
		We're talking about 1948.
		It says, quote, as political and economic freedom diminishes, sexual freedom tends compensatingly to increase.
		And the dictator, unless he needs canon father and families with which to colonize empty and conquered territories, this dictator will do well to encourage that freedom in conjunction with the freedom to daydream under the subdoke, the movies, and the radio.
		It will help to reconcile his subjects to the serpentube, which is now their fate.
		End quote.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let me give you a quote from somebody who just sent a fax in Charleston, South Carolina.
		This man on Dreamland saying the Catholics are a group subversive in nature.
		Well, I just hate it when people attack a very wealthy church that is, quote, very moral and has not changed like other churches.
		I am a Catholic, and the Pope is not Jim Jones or David Koresh.
		This guy must be suffering from paranoid delusions.
		How do you respond to that?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		First of all, I never said that the Pope was like Jim Jones or that there seems to be an awful lot of people putting words into my mouth that I didn't say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this will give you an opportunity to unsay them or to make them.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		To clarify them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		The fact of the matter is that the Catholic Church has been guilty of and is today guilty of intervening into political affairs, be it throughout the world.
		As I said, my mother had an uncle, and I used to sit and listen to him talk about the Vatican, the Jesuit assassinations, how Jesuits were used to assassinate people, how the assassins in the Middle East provided narcotics and drugs.
		It is a very well-known story that the Catholic Church has been involved in very powerful syndicates and underworld organizations, and one needs only to see movies like Godfather 3, where it even talks about the P2, a propaganda douethyth of Freemasonry operating in the Vatican.
		People need to get their heads out of the sand and find out that the Catholic Church is not the holy, sanctimonious organization that they think it is.
		Religion, generally speaking, across the board, I don't care if it's Jewish, if it's Catholic, Protestant, or Islamic, or any other religious organizations have been involved in political movements, and any time you get...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Catholic Church, the bishops, I think, just made a statement about the Republican plan saying more or less it's mean-spirited.
		They didn't use those words, but they said it'd produce more abortions or whatever.
		In other words, whether it's Catholics or anybody else, of course religion is involved in politics.
		How could it not be?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		But I'm saying it is even involved on a far more esoteric level.
		It's a far more Deeper level has the Vatican been involved in the politics of Europe.
		It has engaged itself in the murder and the violence in the Europe, in revolutions.
		We know that the Jesuits are guilty of all sorts of intrigue in government.
		I am sure there's a lot of blood that has been shed during the Middle Ages, during the Reformation, the Inquisitions.
		As a matter of fact, I believe that the Catholic Church became, and I didn't bring the Catholic Church up, but since it's been brought up, let me say this.
		I believe that the Catholic Church is a very wealthy organization.
		It is a very prominent theological institution in the world for the very reason that at a time, at certain periods in history, you had to be a Catholic or you were beheaded.
		You were put to death on the stake and burned at the stake.
		And until such time as we find out how these great religious institutions got to be great and large because of violence and bloodshed and murder, there is nothing holy about how the Catholic Church got to be a great empire.
		It got to be that way by being.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Jordan, you seem to be angry at this.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Because I'm tired of Jews calling in saying that I have said something against the Jewish people.
		Then I get Catholics calling in saying I've said something against the great and holy church.
		All I am saying is something that great people in the past have written on from the founding of this country is that there is, in fact, a phenomenon in our world today, and that is the existence of secret societies and fraternal orders operating behind our professions, our institutions of higher learning, our governments, and our theological institutions.
		And until such time as we wake up and find out who prints the money, where the ideas come from, who has the power behind the scenes, and as long as we are going to continue to hold on to antiquated, outdated concepts and ideas about how holy we are as a people and how righteous and holy our institutions are, we're never going to get to the bottom of how we got in the mess we're in today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, be careful not to pull any punches here, Jordan.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
unidentified		Hi, my name is Renzo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're going to have to speak up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very hard to hear.
unidentified		I live in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Well, Art, this is the worst guest you've ever had on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you say that?
unidentified		Well, Jordan, you're so full of it.
unidentified		I'd like to come down there and slap you, you little jerk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess, is that the extent of it, or is there going to be...
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I think maybe...
unidentified		You...
unidentified		You just say these things that make no sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, caller, likewise...
		Hold on, Jordan.
		Call her, hold on.
		Call her, like what?
unidentified		Like he says, I believe, I think, he has nothing to support this.
		You're so full of it.
		Aliens.
		Affecting society?
		How?
		Chaos happens.
		There's too many people here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, is that it?
unidentified		Yeah, that's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to respond, Jordan?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think there's anything to respond to.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he had his opinion, and I've got mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We'll leave it there then.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
		Hi.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Jordan.
unidentified		I would like to ask you some questions about some things I've been hearing you say.
		I'm right now trying to form an opinion about what I think of secret societies.
		I've had friends of mine tell me about groups like the CFR, the Trilateral.
		I've had them mention a word like the Illuminati that you've mentioned.
		They call it the Order of the Illuminati.
		I'd like to know what you think about all those, the one-world government, the worldly conspiracies, and that sort of thing.
		I don't know really what to think of it yet.
		And I'll get off the phone and let you comment.
		Thanks a lot.
		I think you're very informative.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		I tend to believe that some of the greatest people in our history have believed in such things.
		If you will let me, I would like to quote George Washington.
		And, let's see, 1798, September 25, I have a photocopy of a letter by George Washington to one of his friends where he said, I have heard much of the nefarious and the dangerous plans and the doctrines of the Illuminati.
		And then a second letter, he says, it was not my intention to doubt that the doctrines of the Illuminati and the principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States.
		On the contrary, no one is more truly satisfied of this fact than I am.
		Then he goes on to say, George Washington goes on to say, that individual, he talks about Freemasons, and then he says, I do not believe that all Freemasons are guilty of this kind of thing, of this kind of conspiratorial action.
		But then he says, but that individual of them, individuals of them may have done this, or that the founder or instruments employed to found the democratic societies in the United States may have had these objects in mind and actually had the separation of the people from their government is too evident to be questioned.
		And then Benjamin Disraeli.
		July 14, 1856, Benjamin Disraeli said to the House of Commons, quote, there is in Italy a power which we seldom mention in this House.
		I mean the secret societies.
		It is useless to deny because it is impossible to conceal that a great part of Europe, the whole of Italy and France, and a great portion of Germany, to say nothing of other countries in the world, is covered with a network of these secret societies, just as the surfaces of the earth are now being covered with railroads.
		End quote.
		I can go on and read about 25 other great quotes from leading industrialists, leading leaders throughout the world, religious and political, talking about the existence of political and criminal secret societies that are working in our country today.
		And I think that until such time, as we look at and get a clear view as to where these institutions have come from, this special interest that we're all concerned about, and believe me, there's nothing more powerful than a special interest that's been around for hundreds of years, knowing how to manipulate people.
		And history books are filled with this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jordan.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
		Yes.
unidentified		Good evening, Art.
		This is Gregan Mountain Home.
		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, fine.
unidentified		Mr. Maxwell, I've been listening to your conversations tonight with great interest.
		I was wondering, in my readings of all this, and I've been reading about this for a number of years, not as many as you.
		It seems to me, and I've never really been able to put my finger on it, but it seems to be that there's an interlocking between these organizations, not necessarily one all-encompassing organization as Art would like to put his finger on, but that individuals from one group belong to organization and another group belong to another group, and that the ideas and the personnel kind of interlock in a network.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, yes.
		I have seen the same thing, and that's been known and commented on by many authors and writers and researchers in the field that many of the names of prominent members that were known to be members of certain secret societies in Europe, their names keep turning up in American societies.
		And we can trace that kind of thing for at least those records that we do have of these societies.
		So you're right.
		Yes, there is a connections can be made between individuals.
		For instance, the CFR, the Council on Foreign Relations in our country.
		It's not a secret society as such, but it is a semi-secret order in that we don't know, and we're not privy to know all of its workings behind the scenes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are the guys and gals in the CFR also likely to be the same ones dancing about the owl?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think so.
		I think some of them may be.
		But we know that the CFR is connected to something in England called the British Institute or the Royal Institute for International Affairs.
		You've got to know that anytime you're talking about big money, big government, and political power, you've got to know that there are going to be fraternal orders and special interest groups involved in this kind of thing.
		Now, because we, on our level where we live, the common people, aren't bothered by such things or involved in such things, we tend to think that everything is going along just fine.
		I don't think so.
		I think that there's a very powerful presence of something called special interest in international politics.
		And I think we see it operating all around us, and we just haven't opened our eyes to see and listen with our ears well enough to catch all of these connections that can be made.
		And believe me, there are a lot of very highly educated academic people who have written on this subject, not just me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		Back to the phones.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
unidentified		Hi, this is David in Wichita, and I have a question for Jordan.
		First of all, I went to a Jesuit high school, and let there be no doubt, Jesuit private high school, let there be no doubt that there are highly organized societies within the Jesuit.
		Another thing, too, regarding your question, Art, how is this taught?
		Is it all written down somewhere?
		Well, it harks back to the ancient Greek times with the mystery plays, in which these symbols were utilized in terms of acting out a play who only the initiates knew how to interpret.
		And this is carried back all through the centuries to the Bohemian Club.
		And I was wondering if he could elaborate on that, Jordan.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's exactly right, because they do have the mystery plays and skits that are put on at the Bohemian Society and the Bohemian Club.
		And I think it's interesting that it's called the Bohemian Grove, because when you get into grove worship, that's a whole new thing with the Druids and the Druids of England and Northern Europe in their grove worship.
		And if you'll remember that the ancient Druids had a priesthood, the Druid priest, and one of the symbols of their magic was the magic wand, like Merlin the Magician.
		And magic wands were always made out of hollywood.
		And I believe that we still have the magic worked on us by Hollywood.
		And there's a lot of symbolism and emblems that are used in movies and motion pictures.
		Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, they're looking for the cup of Christ.
		Why is Adolf Hitler looking for the cup of Christ?
		Why is Darth Vader wearing the Nazi helmet?
		All of these are symbols and emblems denoting something.
		And I believe that there's something serious involved in it.
		I don't think it's all child's play.
		And I know that people who are involved in such research know that there is something very serious about the occultism that is going on in our country today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, your turn with Jordan Maxwell.
unidentified		Hi there.
unidentified		I'm calling from San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Mr. Maxwell, I just want to make a couple of comments.
		I think you're right on, and I really appreciate your outspokenness.
		And I think you really hit it on the head with that comment that our blindness is due to the fact that we want to identify with these sanctimonious organizations and hold ourselves up.
		That's all I want to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		There is some support.
		Yeah, well, it seems, Jordan, as though you're either received well with those who agree or almost violently from those who disagree.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the people who are violently disagreeing, I believe, are in, what's the word?
		They're rejecting because they are rejecting just totally, right off the top.
		They're in denial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've got to say, Jordan, I listened to you talk about Catholicism for quite a while.
		I'm not Catholic.
		But if I were Catholic and devout, I'd probably want to hit you on the head.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you what.
		If you were a member of the family of people who were burned at the stake, their heads were cut off, hot lead was poured in the face of human beings, children, hot lead was poured down their throat, people were beheaded, murdered throughout, thousands were murdered at a time in France and Germany by the church.
		There's been a lot of crime committed by churches and religious organizations throughout the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed, wars have been fought.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know.
		And I'm not attributing anything bad to the Catholic people today, but I am saying you better do some history, you know, research into your history of how the church got to be so powerful.
		In a dog-eat-dog world, how did the Catholic Church get to be as powerful as it is?
		It got to be that way because history says it was a very despotic and powerful movement in Europe.
		And if you didn't join, you're dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't mean to touch off again, Jordan.
		Stand by.
		We'll be right back to you for another 30 minutes.
		You're listening to Dreamland on the CBC Radio Network.
unidentified		Dreamland on the CBC Radio Network.
		From the Kingdom of Nye, we continue with your calls on Dreamland with Art Bell.
		Call Art now toll-free at 1-800-618-8255, 1-800-618-TALK.
		First time callers, Area Code 702-727-1222, 702-727-1222.
		Or the wildcard line at Area Code 702-727-1295.
		727-1295 in the 702 area code.
		Now again, here's Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here we go again.
		Dear Art, please ask your guest if the Mormons use secret hand signals to identify each other.
		This is a great show.
		Fabulous guests.
		Thanks, Greg and Linda.
		Salt Lake City.
		Well, I guess they ought to know.
		What about it, Jordan?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I think they do, though I'm not a Mormon, so I can't say for sure, but I do know that the Mormon Church is absolutely, without a doubt, based on occult Freemasonry.
		Both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were Freemasons.
		They were very heavily involved in Freemasonic activities, even at the time of his death, and some very formidable historians and writers, such as James Billington in The Fire in the Minds of Men.
		He's a very good historian, along with many others who have commented on Joseph Smith and Brigham Young's connections with the secret societies of Freemasonry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we have covered.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		So I'm sure that there is a lot of Masonic stuff going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so we have covered a lot of Western religions.
		What about the Eastern religions?
		Hinduism, the Muslims, the Buddhists?
		What about the other big religions around the world?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're the ones that were the actual beginnings of all of this that we have in the West.
		I mean, the whole idea of all of this, secret societies and orders, came out of the ancient East.
		And so the Assassines, as I said, and the Arabic orders, we know that this is where these things have actually began thousands and thousands of years ago.
		And so much of our religious institutions are based on these formidable sects from the ancient East.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So all of this is religion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, religion is the secret order.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
		I think that's very accurate.
		I think all of this can be tied back to ancient belief systems, priesthoods, and religion in general.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		I just wanted to clear that up.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		This is Mochi.
		I live in Kenosha, Wisconsin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you've got to speak up good and loud.
unidentified		This is Mochi.
unidentified		I live in Kenosha, Wisconsin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, I got that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		I wanted to ask Jordan, well, I agree with everything that you said.
		I've always believed that the government lies to us about everything and that we don't really know what's going on and that we've contacted aliens and that they have technological breakthroughs that we don't know about and that they control us through TV and radio and cable and newspapers.
		And I had a theory and I wondered if you had heard of it and what you had to say about it was that I also believe that they lie to us about how many people there are on the planet.
		They say there's five billion and really there's like closer to like a million people and that like a million?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me.
unidentified		But when you watch on TV like the Indy 500 and then when you watch like a sports show or a basketball game or a concert, those people in the audiences are either the same people that they use or holographic images.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to identify with any of that, Jordan?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure that there's more than a million people because I see that many on the freeways in the morning here.
		So I'm sure that there's a lot more.
		But I appreciate his comment.
		I'm sure that there's a lot more than I'm it is interesting, though, bringing up about how the government lies to us, and I'm quite sure that happens all the time.
		I know it does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I'm surprised you didn't say anything about our importation of their brush on the Nazis when they knew they were moving to war, and also the fact that the Pope could have stopped the death camps by excommunicating anybody that had anything to do with any of the extermination camps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Nazis?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me tell you what we do know from actual factual records.
		We do know that the Vatican provided the passports for all of the leading Nazi officers and generals and all of the leading Nazi officials so that they could travel once they saw that the regime was going down.
		The Vatican did supply the passports for the Nazis to go to Central and South America.
		That we know for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do they explain that?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, because if you remember that Mussolini, the Italian dictator, was connected to, politically, Adolf Hitler, and the Pope of Rome was also very heavily connected to the government in Italy.
		And consequently, it appears that the Pope was in league with, because he in fact did, Pope as Pius XII did in fact sign two concordances or contracts with Adolf Hitler.
		I have pictures of him sitting with Adolf Hitler, signing these contracts to Give both financing and political support to Adolf Hitler if he would then assure the church that it would be the only religious institution allowed under the new order of the Nazi Empire.
		And so we know these things are actual, factual history.
		I can send you the documents proving it.
		You can look in the encyclopedia or a dictionary under the word concordate, and it will tell you it was a contract signed by Adolf Hitler and the Pope of Rome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Jordan, do you want to give out a phone number or an address for information or books or whatever?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I want to also say I'm not attacking any particular organization.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that much does seem clear to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've come to the view now that you're after all of them.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I'm after all of them.
		Yes, it's a special interest period.
		My address, if you just write to Jordan Maxwell, P.O. Box 7442, Burbank, California.
		7442, Burbank, California, 91510.
		That's 91510.
		And I have a phone also, if anyone is interested, 818-769-1071.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Give it again, please.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		That's 818 area 769-1071.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you'll get some calls.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I wish I hope so.
		I have videos.
		I have videos which I have done, presentations which I have.
		I have slide presentations documenting everything I've been saying.
		I have audio tapes and materials.
		So if you're interested in any of this kind of research, I'll make it all available to you.
		Give me a call or write me at the P.O. Box 7442, Burbank, California, 91510.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Very good.
		Back to the lines.
		First-time caller line.
		You're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
unidentified		Yes, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		It is my pleasure.
		I'm a long-time listener, first-time caller.
		And I just wanted to pass along some things and ask a couple of questions.
		I'd like to take my answer off the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Okay, I love the subject.
		I know this is a very volatile.
		You're striking a lot of nerves out here.
		I myself, and I'm a Freemason, and I'm a Scottish Rite Mason, and I'm third generation.
		But I just wanted to say, you know, there's a lot of good in masonry, and I wanted to put the plug in for that.
		Do you want to admit to all this?
		I myself am not privy to any of this stuff.
		There's a lot of allegations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, surely, even at your level of masonry, if all of this would be true at the top, there would be lots and lots of rumors and talk of it, even at your level.
unidentified		Well, that's the thing.
		There's nothing but the absence of rumor.
		And, you know, all of my experience is nothing but good.
		Good moral men that are trying to improve themselves and to make a positive influence in the world.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, my answer to that is that I also have experience in Masonry, though I am not one, but members of my family were.
		I understand what you're saying.
		I am not in any way imputing anything bad to Freemasons as people, but I will tell you that there is something to be looked at into the history of the Scottish and York Rite as it is connected to the Grand Lodge in England.
		And there's a lot of very important information I have on that.
		If you'd like to write me, I'll send you all of this material and be happy to send it to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Aha!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, Jordan, you are genetically a Mason.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I've been connected to it for a long time.
		I have been connected to it in that many members of my family have been Masons.
		I have ministers or priests in my family.
		I'm an Italian background.
		So, like I said, my mother's uncle worked in the Vatican.
		So, I'm not impugning badness to anyone.
		I'm just saying that there are some very important things we need to know about how big government and big theology and big money operate.
		And we need to look at this.
		And there could very possibly be some information concerning these orders that we need to know as Americans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
		Speak up good and loud.
		Tell us where you're calling from.
unidentified		My name's Bill.
unidentified		I'm calling from Kenosha, Wisconsin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Well, Art, can you tell me any of your personal experience with what is publicly unknown?
		Because I want to know what makes you want to have this show.
		Because I personally have never run into anything unusual.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's, I guess, well, that's a little off topic here.
		But I like exploring areas that I have not previously explored and things that I don't know about.
		That's what makes me have this program, and that's what has me seeking Mr. Maxwell on the air as well as others.
		The unknown.
		Ideas that are new to you, many of you.
		It's the idea.
		Expose yourself to new things.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
unidentified		Yes, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm fine.
		I can't believe I got through.
		My name is Randy in New Orleans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Randy.
unidentified		The comment I'd like to make, Jordan was the first person I have heard that had the same concerns I've had.
		I've got a brother who's an assistant U.S. attorney, and I had an ex-step brother who was a federal judge.
		And the penal judicial system in America is such a disgrace.
		All the people that fill the prisons in America are basically there for drugs and for all these minor offenses and so forth.
		And the few percentages of hardcore criminals that can't be conditioned with therapy and released into society, if they cleared out all the people that didn't belong, basically, there'd be so much room for people that do belong, plus maybe white-collar crime to me, which is total, total insanity, that that's the first time I heard anyone else making those sort of comments.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you, 100%.
unidentified		I totally agree.
		It's funny.
		My ex-stepfather, who was a federal judge, would go around putting drug dealers in jail for 30 years and then come home and get drunk.
		And I'd see this until it just doesn't make sense to me, you know?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I know.
unidentified		And it just you know, I just wish I would have finished my school and became a lawyer, but you know, one person can't fight the whole system, you know, and and uh the whole OJ trial is a complete sham, you know.
		The pen I mean, I'm more for the for the defense just for the fact that I've seen on all the I've never missed twenty twenty or like Dateline or any of this stuff.
		And there's so many prosecutors, persecute.
		I consider them persecutors because they're putting so many people in jail.
		And my brother was a DA locally and all this in New Orleans, and he said they're all in it for the money.
		They want to make a name for themselves and get a paycheck, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		Thank you.
		Of course, that's New Orleans, Louisiana, which, by the way, has probably more murders and more crime right now than any other city in the nation per population.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it's not by mere chance.
		I don't think it's by mere chance that even in the state of California, we do not have a California justice system.
		We don't have a United States justice system.
		We have something here in California called the California criminal justice system.
		And I don't think it's by chance that they use those terms.
		Why would they call it a criminal justice system?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jordan Maxwell.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		I agree with a lot of the points that are being made by your guest.
		I am a 32nd-degree Scottish Rite Mason.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, I'm hearing echo on you for some reason.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're a 32nd-degree Mason?
unidentified		Yes.
		And one point that I would like to make is that like a hammer.
		A hammer can be used to build or destroy, and religion and so many of these societies have been used for either good or bad.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		So I agree.
unidentified		I would agree with a lot of the points that your caller makes, and I don't see him as attacking anyone myself.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate that.
		Because I'm not, and that's not my purpose to attack anyone.
		But I'm drawing attention to the fact that behind government and great theological movements have been societies and fraternal orders.
		And we here in America need to understand that if we're going to keep control over our country and our lives, we need to be given all the facts.
		And we need to be able to look at all the facts because the brain is like in a parachute.
		It doesn't work if it's not open.
		So we need to open our minds and open the history books and look at where we've come from as a people, because we're not going to continue to have our freedom if we keep putting our heads in the sand and don't want to admit that we all have something to look at.
		And these secret societies and fraternal orders and special interests operating in this country need to be investigated and looked at.
		And I am totally convinced that if we don't do that soon, we're not going to be able to continue to be free in this country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just idle curiosity, Jordan, but with what you're saying, if what you said were to be true, and these organizations had the power that you're suggesting they're trying to gather, they'd kill you.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		They may yet.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just starting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's true.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I had an FBI man here in Southern California call me and say, we've been watching you for some time, and the people who work in the FBI, he said, the working class people in the FBI appreciate what you're doing.
		We appreciate what you're doing.
		We are wholeheartedly behind you in your efforts to try and wake the people up.

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