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March 17, 1995 - Art Bell
01:59:35
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Michael Brown - Apocalypse
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From the high desert and the great American southwest, I bid you all good evening or good
morning as the case may be. And welcome to another edition, a Friday night, Saturday
morning edition of Coast to Coast AM, live out across this great land, across all these
time zones, from Christmas Island and Tahiti and the Hawaiian Islands, east into the Caribbean,
south into northern...
South America and, of course, north to the North Pole.
Fair coverage, huh?
Good to be here, everybody.
And we are going to take a bit of a turn, as I do so many times on this program.
It's my feeling that talk radio should be no single thing.
And I've conducted it that way for years and years now.
We're going to have a guest.
Uh, tonight.
His name is Michael Brown, and he will come from the Christian perspective.
He has written a book called The Final Hour.
Uh, Michael, uh, is an investigative journalist.
He actually broke the Love Canal story.
You remember that?
And, uh, now author, I think, two times over, at least, since then.
We'll tell you about his books, but this should reach out and grab you.
The reports come from deep in the former Soviet Union, where towering apparitions of Jesus and Mary seem to announce the fall of communism.
From the damp, windswept peat of Ireland, where visions are given of the crucifixion from war-torn Yugoslavia, where the Virgin has appeared since 1981, and a mountainside in Venezuela, where the sun pulses and spins and throws off colors of great splendor.
During the past century, And especially the last ten years, we on Earth have been experiencing a major supernatural episode.
Reports of unusual events, spiritual events, coming from every habitable continent.
That's a bit of a teaser, and he will explain what he means, and we will talk of many things in a few moments when Michael Brown is here.
I think you're going to enjoy it.
I think I am too.
I am not uh...
a catholic uh... but i've always thought uh... catholicism a beautiful
uh... truly beautiful religion
and uh... in just a moment uh... we will embark and find out uh...
catholic view of what's going on in the world and you all know
with predictions and prophecy and uh... these are things we're going to touch on
by the way i want to thank virginia at ancient prophecies we've had a
wonderful uh...
relationship returning on to michael brown she's the one who uh... is
responsible for suggesting
michael as a guest All right, let's do it.
I think he's in New York.
Let's try and connect with Michael Brown, author of The Final Hour and more.
Michael, good evening, well, good morning there, I guess.
Good morning, nice to be with you.
Good to have you.
Michael, where are you actually?
Albany, New York, actually, just north, about eight miles, about three miles north of New York City.
all of the things that we're told here. All right, Michael, instead of reading, I've got
sort of a bio on you here, but I thought I would let you tell us what you have done and
how you have come to the final hour.
In other words, what is your history?
You were a journalist, right?
I started out as a newspaper journalist, local reporter in Niagara Falls, involved in the
exposure, the breaking of the story of the Love Canal toxic waste dump, as well as the
entire situation of hazardous waste across America.
I wrote a book back in 1980, Coal Laying Waste, that kept me busy for ten years afterwards,
traveling around warning about this danger.
I lived in New York City for much of my career.
I wrote a book on the mafia, I wrote another book on the environment, I wrote a lot of
science articles, or books.
I wrote a book called A Search for Eve, which was about a theory that through DNA they had
tracked the first human being back to her common ancestor of female ancestry in Africa.
I am the...
Things of that nature.
I was a contributing editor at Science Digest and so forth.
I used to write magazine stories.
I don't want to leave your early work for just a second.
We've got plenty of time.
Christian phenomenon for lack of a better term.
I can only imagine and would love to have you tell us a little of what it was like when that story was breaking.
But then to jump to the end of it for a second, I saw a piece not very long ago that seemed to suggest Well, there's a lot of misunderstanding because of what the Love Canal is and what the Love Canal is not.
moved away from Love Canal and that it just cost a whole bunch of money and wasted a bunch
of money and the whole thing was for naught.
I'm sure you've seen those pieces.
Well, there's a lot of misunderstanding because of what the Love Canal is.
Because there were two Love Canals, what the Love Canal is and what the Love Canal is not.
You see, in 1978 there was an evacuation of the 238 homes that were closest to this leaking
chemical.
Two years later, after a lot of protest, there was an evacuation of people who lived somewhat
farther away and were not, in many cases, really in the type of danger those original
inhabitants were, but were moved for really political and psychological, emotional reasons.
And it's that outer zone that parts of which they're thinking of re-inhabiting or are re-inhabiting
and making it seem like Love Canal was a lot of hot air, but it wasn't.
It was toxic air and those homes closest to Love Canal could never be re-inhabited because
they don't exist.
They've been bulldozed over and dumped in a special landfill.
So there's a lot of misunderstanding.
Could a person live at ground zero today or is it still basically uninhabitable?
Absolutely not.
There's a huge fence that makes that a zone of contamination for good.
You couldn't even enter it walking down the street.
You'd have to scale the fence and go into this large mound of clay.
A lot of the homes that I initially investigated are now under this mound of clay that protects
it from rainfall and therefore stops the leaking.
How was it discovered?
Well, there had been reports for a couple of years about PCBs.
That's a type of chlorinated chemical that's rather poisonous, seeping into some pumps,
into cellars, in basements, ringing the site.
I know PCB is used in transformers, electrical transformers.
It used to be.
It's a coolant, that's right, and also used in the manufacture of certain plastics and so forth.
Very similar to DDT as far as a family of chemicals.
And then in 1978, there was a memo that I got my hands on and it showed that benzene, which is a human cancer-causing agent, was in the air of some of the homes near Love Canal.
I went in there and I did kind of an informal health survey in May of 1978.
I was really nonplussed by how many people were claiming that their dogs were going bald, losing their fur, developing tumors allegedly, and all these ailments they were claiming from dizziness to epilepsy and breast cancer that seemed to afflict them once they moved near this place known as Love Canal, an old hydroelectric channel that has been filled up with, like I said, chlorinated material from years gone by.
I told the health department about this.
The health department was planning, or henceforth did plan, to have a health survey of its own, which a couple of months after that turned up rather hard scientific indications of high rates of miscarriage and perhaps even birth deformities.
Some liver enzyme indicators are among those living closest to the chemicals, and issued an order of evacuation.
So as you investigated, it was one of those things that sort of slowly became apparent and dawned, and the magnitude of it became apparent.
Once after MAD-78 everything snowballed, by August 2nd, 1978, people were streaming away from the site on orders of the state, and it became a major national story, the first toxic waste crisis in America.
Alright, so that was Love Canal, and then you say you wrote about the Mafia, and I've always been curious about that.
We had a reporter in Las Vegas who did a lot of reporting about the Mafia, ended up drowning in Hawaii.
Not necessarily under suspicious circumstances, but that leads me into the question.
Don't you worry a little bit when you write about the Mafia?
Isn't that a worrisome thing to do?
I think it is if you don't have proper guidance.
I was writing specifically about a murder story that had occurred involving a gangster
from Newark, New Jersey, which is kind of a hub of mob activity in the United States.
I lived there, Michael, I know.
At Branchbrook Park.
And at any rate, he had got caught in this murder with several other people, or a couple
other people, and turned into state witness in order to himself avoid jail and ended up
betting on over 70 of his former buddies, including a lot of heavy hitters.
I mean, they used to call them stone cold killers in the parlance.
And so I kind of wrote the story, and I always was in consultation with county district attorney investigators, with high-level detectives, with FBI agents, with federal marshals, and I kind of knew where I could step and where I couldn't.
I thought for a moment when you said, with the right consultation, you went to the equivalent of the Godfather and got his blessing to do the book.
I took the approach that the Godfather was a lot of hot air and that these people really
are basically just scum of the earth.
I got on shows like Carrie Lee and Regis Chauvet when it was just a local New York show and
said as much.
And lived?
And lived.
Tell me, did you ever get any dead horse heads in bed with you or even something lesser,
letters or threats.
No, well there was a jewel thief from Miami who threatened to hurt me if I put his name in my book.
Um, that'll do.
Alright, so, um, let's find out then, how in the world do we get from that sort of secular, serious investigative reporting to something like the final hour?
How do you make that trip?
Well, in 19, I was born a Catholic.
I fell away from the faith, I guess around late junior high, in junior high school and high school, certainly in college, even though I went to a Jesuit university in New York City.
And for years afterwards, I was in, I guess you'd call it the fast track in the Upper East Side of Manhattan, and with no time certainly for Sunday Mass or anything of the sort, which was kind of considered superstition.
But in 1983, in the middle of writing that Mafia book, by the way, I had a series of
experiences that to me indicated that there was actually a force of evil in the world.
I used to think, I think a lot of us think of evil as a generic term, something that
means negative, people who do what's not right, criminals and so forth.
But, you know, to think in terms of actual evil force, a devil or... Real, real evil, the devil.
Yeah, and I started to have experiences indicating to me that it was a real force.
And of course, I was close enough to it, writing about it.
These experiences, including a rather dramatic dream I had, ended up turning me into a full-time
Christian writer.
Catholic, you returned?
I returned to the church very quickly in 1983 after this dream.
Tell us about your dream.
and I am a very good friend of his. I have been in touch with him for a long time. He
has been a great friend of mine. He has been a great friend of mine. He has been a great
friend of mine. He has been a great friend of mine.
One night I was coming back from socializing down in the Lower East Village of Manhattan.
It was a Friday night and I was single at the time.
I don't know.
I was a fast lane stuff, you know, and again it was right at the, towards the end of this
Mafia book I was writing.
Drugs?
No, I mean I wasn't, I wasn't.
Not that fast.
I was, I may have had a couple drinks that night.
I went to sleep and I woke up, oh, middle of the night.
I didn't look at the clock, or at least I don't remember.
It was probably the first time, around three o'clock in the morning and I woke up because
I had a very startling dream.
I dreamt that I was on this, like a hospital gurney and there were these luminous, emerald
I was in a luxury apartment building and I had awakened because they had shown me this
face materialized on my door and it was this elongated face with a very pointy chin, a
typical demonic face with a goatee, the classic sunken jowls and so forth staring at me and
it was a very living face, an etched face on my door and it was the most terrifying
thing I've ever seen in my life. It made anything like the mafia seem like kids play. I woke
up and I paced around for a while and I went back to sleep and a dream continued where
it left off and I asked one of the entities again who it was and he said his name was
I associated him with being angels and he showed me this face again and I woke up again and I was up for an hour just terrified.
The dream continued where I left off. It was a three-parter.
Oh, brother.
This time I was told to say, vanish.
And I woke up, I remember I just, I was beside myself.
And I think it was the very next day I went to see a sister of mine in Stanford, Connecticut.
And my mother had been by there recently.
I am not Catholic, but the beginning of the genre of the movies that I have seen is the
exorcist. Now, I have seen the movies of the exorcist, but I have not seen the movie of
the exorcist. I have seen the movie of the exorcist, but I have not seen the movie of
No movie ever scared me as much as The Exorcist.
And I guess it was because it involved the church and it all seemed so very real.
So I've got a question for you.
Do those things go on?
Yes.
Yes, but with greater frequency than the movie indicates, and with better success.
There are many, many thousands of cases of demonic possession, but most of the cases, of course, are not quite as dramatic as that.
But there are people I have talked to, priests, including one from the Los Angeles area, who
have been involved in exorcisms that are literally, literally as dramatic as some of the parts
of the movie.
Not that they have a twist around the back and not that there is pea soup flying across
your movie screen, but certainly physical manifestations of levitation and just tremendously,
in some cases, gruesome phenomena.
And that occurs.
But like I said, they get rid of these spirits, whereas the movie kind of displayed the devil
is more powerful than the force of good.
Or he made a jump and lived at the end, yeah.
Do you think that's what you saw in your dream?
Was it a manifestation of evil, of the devil, or of yourself, or the evil within you, or what was it?
A combination.
I think it was showing me literally that the devil was at my door.
That, you know, when you brush against evil, it leaves something behind.
And all of us fool around with evil forces when we basically, I don't want to be preachy, that's for others to do, but I'm not very good at it, but that's what happens when we sin.
We start to, and we do this as a society, too.
You can become possessed as a society.
We begin to invite a man.
Listen, we've got a break right here.
We'll be right back to you, Michael.
Michael Brown is my guest.
more in a moment uh... once again from albany new yorkers michael brown back
again michael hi uh...
alright this is why how do you know
how if i would ask you how you what you saw how do you know it was real how do you know it wasn't just
a As they say, a bit of undigested baloney or something.
You had no doubt you were encountering something that was extremely unusual and certainly wasn't
your standard dream.
And that was, as I said, I don't know, I mean you could say it was subconscious, but that
was one in a series of, quite frankly, many other events that began to occur, indicating
to me that all of this talk about poltergeist phenomena, and I had done research earlier
as a journalist writing for the Atlantic Monthly and other publications and as a newspaper
reporter, I had done some investigating into people who claimed haunted houses and experiments
with parapsychology and all of that other junk and so forth.
I think that all of us are tied in that when you really look at things there is a dimension
outside of the body and you better be careful what you fool around with because it can bring
something to your door.
I do a program on that kind of thing, Michael.
It's called Dreamland and it deals with UFOs and it deals with life after death.
If there is such a thing, it explores those possibilities and occasionally, of course,
If there is such a thing it explores those possibilities and occasionally of course it
it moves into those realms.
moves into those realms.
We talked with a lot of people like Dr. Moody and others who believe, well I'm sure you're
We talk to a lot of people like Dr. Moody and others who believe, well I'm sure you're
well aware of what they believe, and I take it that your view of that sort of thing is
well aware of what they believe, and I take it that your view of that sort of thing is
negative.
negative.
Well, not all of it.
Well, not all of it.
I mean, for instance, you take the near-death experiences that you just alluded to, without
For instance, you take the near death experiences that you just alluded to, without relating
relating to any one researcher, I think there are some cases that are extremely interesting
to any one researcher.
and very valid and very uplifting and very true.
We have to be careful, Art.
I mean, I know parapsychology inside out.
I mean, I was to a mind science foundation.
I interviewed J.B.
Ryan, who coined the expression ESP.
I mean, I used to investigate scientific experiments with this stuff and wrote a book about it,
and I understand that a lot of it is valid, but a lot of it can get into occultism, and
that degenerates very quickly into New Age and witchcraft and all of these other things
that you have to be very careful about.
We'll get to that.
What is the best evidence that there really is a God?
What would you say?
Well, to me there's so much evidence.
I guess life itself is the best indication to me.
I mean, to think that all of this organization came out of chaos is ridiculous.
I mean, what are the odds that just a mass of water and soil would produce the high-level organisms that we see all around us and that we are ourselves?
Like I said, I did a book I call it search for Eve, which was on these theories of
evolution.
I went to Africa, I went to cave sites in Israel, I went to DNA laboratories in Berkeley
out in your neck of the woods and also up to Hawaii looking at all this evidence.
And what I found really, Art, is that scientists have no idea what happened or how this could
happen.
They all, they may pretend in some of these textbooks that they understand evolution,
but they really don't.
And so I think that the miracle of life itself is the best evidence of God.
How long do you think we've been on Earth, man that is?
I don't know.
I mean if you believe in their dating techniques, radiocarbon dating and thermoluminescence,
I guess you could argue that modern man, anatomically modern man, has been around for 100 to 200,000
years and in kind of an ape-man form for hundreds of thousands of years previous.
Well, you're an investigative journalist.
Do you believe that generally, or do you believe that man has only been here, say, 6,000 years?
I don't know about the 6,000 year figure.
I think that was devised by a clergyman back several centuries ago in England.
Well, a lot of people cling to it, Michael.
I know they do, and I wouldn't cling to any dates, and that goes for any realm.
I don't believe too much in radiocarbon dating anymore.
I saw a case, I went to interview Richard Leakey, who is probably the foremost fossil hunter in history, and indeed one of the major scientists on the face of the planet Earth.
He had a famous discovery called Skull 1470 that made the cover of Time Magazine, and then a short while later he said, We were off by a few hundred thousand years or so and of course that didn't make the cover of Time Magazine but I'm very skeptical when they try to say something is a million years old or two hundred thousand years old.
Do you think it would be easier or is it as easy to accept Are you convinced?
God is more subtle than the devil is.
The devil kind of comes crashing around.
Are you convinced? Now I know what you saw on your door.
Look, God is more subtle than the devil is. The devil kind of comes crashing around.
I think all we have to do is look around us right now in American society to see the footprints of old Sloughfoot.
I mean, not to be facetious about this, but there are a lot of manifestations right now.
You turn on MTV and it's like peering into a witch's coven.
I mean...
There's a lot of stuff going on everywhere, whether it's the crime rate, the criminal justice system, which is turning out to be very interesting right now, isn't it?
Oh, yes.
And just a lot of bizarre events going on that I think are leading up to some type of high point event.
We're seeing a rise in societal manifestations of actual metaphysical evil.
I don't want to use too many philosophical words here.
Alright, what does the final hour mean?
The final hour talks about the final hour of our era.
And what I say in the book, I report on various prophecies from around the world, a lot of them coming from the Catholic That's right.
and the alleged apparitions of the Virgin Mary that say that we are approaching, as
I said, some type of major series of events that are going to break down or purify us,
break down this evil, purify us from this evil and lead us into some type of major reawakening.
I think that we do need a wake up call.
Are these the final days?
The final days to me implies the end of the world or the end of the book of Revelation.
And I'll say this, I think that we're going through parts of the book of Revelation, but
I never would say that we're approaching the end of the world.
We're approaching the end of an era, and therefore it is the later days of an era.
You wrote, during the past century, and especially the last ten years, we on Earth have been experiencing a major Supernatural episode now Give me an example of what you mean the apparitions the Virgin Mary
Is it bigger than that?
Last night, for example, on this program, Michael, we had caller after caller from New Orleans, Louisiana, where crime is so far out of control.
They had over 420 murders last year.
It's a fairly small city as they go.
The police department has just got corruption all the way through it.
They're trying to do something about that.
We've got kids killing kids, seven-year-olds throwing, eleven-year-olds throwing seven-year-olds out of windows.
We've got, I watched a black guy look into a television screen the other day, and say, look, you know, I don't care about my own life, and I don't give a damn whether I live or die.
I'm already resigned to the fact that I'm gonna die, so if you ask me what I think about your life, you can only imagine.
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
And of course, New Orleans is also a great center of voodoo.
These manifestations, I even look at things like what we're seeing with the legal system in the O.J.
Simpson case.
That sounds nearly trite, but it's not trite.
It's a very major thing going on right now.
We're starting to see just how wayward our society has become.
And I think, quite frankly, that when people say, well, what are these prophecies about?
What's going to come?
I say that, first of all, they're starting to materialize before our eyes.
We are already seeing The precursors of events that will probably occur, and I think California right now is the center of this activity as far as actual warnings.
I had on the show not long ago Michael Scallion, Gordon Michael Scallion.
I'm sure you know of him.
I've heard of him.
You've heard of him.
He predicts a series of earthquakes this year, Michael, that will culminate with some nine-point earthquakes.
Palm Springs, California, going on up the coast toward Seattle and so forth, and, I mean, tremendous, gigantic earth changes.
He may have even been on the Ancient Prophecies program.
I believe he may have been.
And there are so many prophets predicting the same sort of thing.
You know, California breaks off and falls off and the whole thing.
How do you react to that sort of prophecy?
Something is happening in California.
Los Angeles since 1992 has only gone at the most six months without being declared a disaster area.
You've had, of course, floods, and you've had fires, and you've had riots, and you've had earthquakes.
That's right.
And if you look, matter of fact, if you look at the ten most costly disasters in American history, in all of American history, going back to The Great Chicago Fire, or the 1906 San Francisco Earthquake, or whatever you want to consider.
And adjusting for inflation and change in value of the dollar, of the top ten worst disasters in American history monetarily, six or seven, might be seven now in light of the recent flooding, of these disasters, of these ten disasters, have occurred since 1989, and four or five since 1992.
Something seems to be afoot and a lot of the activity is in California
And and what I see is that this is building momentum and building momentum right until we're going to have perhaps
one of these major earthquakes or a major storm of
unprecedented proportion whether in California or on the East Coast here
or wherever However, I...
You know, I even look at this earthquake in Kobe, Japan.
The name Kobe means the doorway of God.
In Japan, there were 5,000 were killed.
And you start to wonder, you know, is God trying to tap us on the shoulder before stronger medicine?
It's a very good question, and I must say that a lot of us who are not gifted prophets still feel something, and there are a lot of people out in the audience who have this general sense of unease that something big is coming soon.
I see that everywhere.
I do a lot of research across denominations.
Not just the Catholic realm, but also the Protestant realm, and I've interviewed Jews, and I've interviewed all kinds of different people, and there is a common thread.
There is this feeling, this unsettled feeling.
That something is going to give soon, or a series of events are going to give soon.
A lot of us are kind of waiting perhaps a little bit too obsessively about one major event like an asteroid, or the big one in California, or a tidal wave somewhere.
But something.
something but i think that we're going to see a lot of regional events of
perhaps unprecedented proportion in the coming years and decades
all leading up to some type of high point event and we can discuss that
later if you want Yes, indeed.
A lot of the prophets I talk to, again, and I talk to many of them, seem to suggest that prophecy is not a done deal.
Scallion said it, others have said it, that there are many possible courses, or roads, or realities, or dimensions, or however you want to phrase it, that we can move down, and that we don't have to move down the one toward the big disaster.
That's true.
We believe that from the Catholic perspective also.
See, we're told that.
Now, I know that there are a lot of non-Catholics who have all kinds of misgivings about apparitions that we claim come from the Virgin Mary, and I understand some of their complaints and considerations and so forth, but I've been to a lot of these places from, like you said, the former Soviet Union to Medjugorje to South America.
At some of these places, the Virgin Mary gives secrets that seem to pertain to future events.
And sometimes she directly prophesies.
And this is what she says.
This is exactly what she says.
These are events that will come if we continue what we're doing now.
There's always that if.
They're conditional prophecies.
They can be changed.
Just like in the Bible, prophecies could be changed.
When Jonah warned Nineveh, It was if Nineveh did not repent it would be destroyed and Nineveh at least initially did.
Repet wasn't destroyed.
I think we're at the same place right now.
Yes, although as I look at our present direction, I see no change of course yet.
It looks like we're headed straight down the highway to doom.
And more so Europe and other parts of the world, even in the United States.
But it's really becoming flagrant here, and we better shift course, or I think the Lord is going to shift course for us.
You also wrote, whether you're a believer or disbeliever, Catholic or Protestant, Gentile or Jew, you're about to enter a series of unearthly events, call them alleged events, unlike any reported in 2,000 years.
Now, there's always a lot of jitters, I guess, when centuries turn the page.
And, you know, I forget what they call it, the millennium madness, I think.
Yeah.
So, how much of what's going on right now do you think is that?
How much is really a problem headed toward 2000 here?
Well, a lot of it is millennial madness, a lot of it is psychological.
I don't associate it with the year 2000 so much as the change of era that could occur
after the year 2000 or before.
It could occur tomorrow for all we know.
We have to be careful because these are human time frames.
And things don't work like that in the supernatural.
If you hear a prophecy that gives specific dates, usually it turns out to be a joke,
something wrong, kind of a deception.
And so I don't put too much stock in the year 2000, but I do believe that in the next few years or few decades,
we are really going to see some enormous events, unless things change very rapidly.
Alright, you actually went to the physical locations and investigated some of these events regarding the Virgin Mary's that the rest of us, Michael, have only heard rumors and talked and stories about.
Was it real?
Medjugorje in former Yugoslavia is real and I've been there four times now.
How can you say that?
Why do you say that?
What did you see that convinced you?
Well, I've got to say, too, when I first arrived at this place where it said the Virgin Mary has been appearing to six young people since 1981, since June of 81, I thought it was a case of collective hysteria for the first few hours I was there.
As a matter of fact, I was disgusted at myself for flying all that way.
But before I left, five or six days later, it was the most incredible experience of my life.
And it's the feeling of peace there.
You feel like you're You're not on the planet Earth.
It's somewhere between here and heaven, this tranquility, the power of God.
I saw the sun do stuff that I didn't think the sun could do.
I realize this is kind of a supernatural phenomenon because the sun certainly couldn't have been doing this or else everybody on Earth would have seen it.
It was throwing off colors and pulsing and there was a disc that moved in front of it.
A disc?
Like a disc that, not a UFO or anything, but just something that seemed to be shielding the sunlight so you could stare at the sun for ten minutes without blinking.
And without seeing sunspots.
And instead of sunspots, at one point in association with Medjugorje, I saw these reddish, purplish
hearts floating across my field of vision.
And just the...
I saw other aerial phenomena while I was there, not UFOs, but rather more like the signs and
wonders described in the New Testament.
And I think really the most impressive thing was just this feeling in your heart of peace
here you are in the stony hinterlands of Yugoslavia with nothing around, with no pools, with no
TV, with no air conditioning, a lot of times with no heat if you're there during the cold
months and you didn't want to leave.
And a peasant village that's right out of pre-World War II.
And I mean, where people still used horse and buggy or horses to cart around their firewood.
When you ask yourself, did I really see this or did I see what I wanted to see, how do
you answered.
Well, by going back again, I guess.
And that's what I did three other times.
Three other times?
Three other times.
Wow.
All right, we're here at the top of the hour, so rest.
We've got several minutes.
Just relax, and we'll get back to you in a moment, Michael.
Michael Brown is my guest, author of The Final Hour.
And yes, we'll ask him about UFOs and such.
We'll be right back.
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Good morning, everybody.
If you are just joining us at this hour, we are discussing the final hour.
Not of this program, but of mankind, I guess.
The final hour.
My guest is Michael Brown.
He is a Catholic.
He was a secular investigative journalist.
He broke the Love Canal story.
He wrote a book on the Mafia.
He's done lots and lots of secular journalistic work.
And now he's writing books and reporting on spiritual events that are going on all over the world, particularly in the last and next decades.
It is a fascinating subject, certainly, and I've got facts here with regard to witchcraft.
All right, back now to Michael in Albany, New York.
Michael, are you there?
Yes, I am.
Here's a fact, and by the way, anybody wanting to send in a question for Michael, my fax number is area code 702-727-8499.
702-727-8499.
Art, in the immortal words of Marsha Clark, I object.
You have an interesting guest.
I'm looking forward to hearing the rest of what he has to say, but He is a rather confused person about witches.
Speaking as a practitioner of modern witchcraft, Wicca.
Witches do not worship Satan.
Satan is a Christian heresy, and very much part of the Christian theology.
Wicca is not a Christian religion, and to us, Satan is simply a fictional character from someone else's literature.
For a witch to worship Satan, or use satanic symbols, makes as much sense as would you worshipping Captain Marvel, Superman, or the Incredible Hulk.
That's Paul, down in Phoenix.
You want me to respond to that?
Yeah, sure.
Respond any way you want.
I would really draw a differentiation between Falker, a comic strip character, and this tremendously nefarious force who is a real force in the world and in our lives, and also can cause a lot of supernatural phenomena.
With witches, most people practicing Wicca or witchcraft are not evil people, but they, I believe that, and excuse me for sounding pretentious when I refer to things like this as I did in the previous half hour, but it's a deception and that's where the confusion is.
You see, witchcraft does relate to demonic activity.
It goes back to ancient Babylon.
It goes back to Neanderthal times in Europe when they had uh... pantheism and worship of
horned headed creatures and so forth representations on the old cave walls or at least relics
soon after the uh...
croman young man i should say not neanderthal and uh... and then it came through history through ancient
babylon through these strange gods and goddesses
and uh... it came through egypt at the time of the pyramids and it came through
the secret societies of europe and then the witchcraft in germany the secret societies that uh...
took took uh... a foothold even here in america
and now we call it witchcraft and the new age movement to the occult and so
forth I believe that a lot of it taps into a real supernatural
force, but it's a force from the dark side that causes tremendous spiritual blindness so
that they don't see the devil, so that they don't see the working of actual demonic
entities.
I strongly suggest that they get away from that quick.
While we're on the subject of getting away from it quick, one thing did once scare me.
Somebody had delivered to me anonymously an old, even ancient, Michael Ouija board.
When I used to work in Las Vegas, up at the radio station, it was delivered to me.
And it looked a zillion years old, and I guess it was.
Some strange things happened associated with that Ouija board, and I didn't even play with the damn thing.
What do you have to say about Ouija boards?
Are they an invitation to the dark side?
Well, it's like taking a bullhorn into downtown New York City to Times Square and saying, hi out there, anyone who wants to come into my parlor is welcome.
I mean, would you do that?
That's what you're doing in a spiritual realm with a Ouija board.
You're saying, whoever wants to come through, come on in, and guess who's going to come in first.
You have to be careful with that, with tarot cards, with astrology and so forth, because these are all things that are mentioned, even biblically, as being extremely dangerous and putting you in touch with wizards and witches and the dark side.
And again, I don't want to insult any of your listenership, but you have to be very careful with this stuff.
I've seen phenomena with the Ouija board.
I used to investigate that type of thing to see if there was anything behind it.
I've been in the rooms when they turn stone cold all of a sudden, and everyone gets prickly skin, and it's a big thrill and everything, and these messages come through the board.
But who's sending these messages?
What are the fruits?
What happens to people who fool around with this stuff?
And the answer is that often they get into a lot of trouble.
And you know, if you want to look at actual cases of possession, you'll be amazed how many of those cases
started out with tarot cards or Ouija boards.
You'll be amazed because again, you're inviting something in that you don't understand.
Another thing I don't understand and I've struggled to understand
and I've done shows on it for years, UFOs.
I finally I saw one myself, Michael.
I had a serious, serious experience.
Close in, something just floated above me.
A big triangular craft of some kind.
I won't go into all the details, but it scared the hell out of me.
And it was either technology that we have developed and surely know nothing about, or it was from somewhere else.
I don't know.
I don't know what it was.
To this day, I don't know what I saw.
So many people, of course, as you know, millions of people have had these experiences.
And I want to start out by saying that I hope I have an open mind in some regards,
and I don't discount the possibility that a small percentage of these are extraterrestrial.
But I'll say that I've seen tremendous indication that it's more of a spiritual phenomenon than a physical phenomenon.
In other words, something from another dimension as opposed to another planet.
And we have to, once again, we have to be careful of the dark side.
We're told in the Bible that Satan will send lying wonders in the air.
Wonders in the air were warned about, uh, biblically, as well as through some of these Marian, uh, prophecies.
And, uh, we look, I think that there was one study that indicates as many as 8 million Americans are claiming sometime in their lives to have been abducted by, uh, UFO-nauts.
That's right.
And, uh, I think, uh, if you look at the descriptions, I don't think so.
It is classic demonology.
These are entities that have the slanted eyes, they are little, they are mean looking, they
leave bad effects, they leave bad odors a lot of times.
And they come through, they can go through the wall, they haunt you the rest of your
lives.
It is not like a craft landing from some other planetary system and visiting you once, taking
a sample and then heading back for home.
I think that we are seeing our actual manifestation and materialization of forces of good and
But rather it is an ongoing spiritual phenomenon and therefore I think that it is part of this
supernatural episode.
evil in direct combat.
And we are on that battleground.
We are in the middle of that crossfire right now.
And that is why there is a tremendous interest right now among the American people in this
phenomenon because they are seeing it.
Seventy-nine percent of the American people believe in miracles according to the Gallup
people believe in miracles according to the Gallup survey last December.
survey last December.
And that is because they are seeing things like this.
Yes sir.
And that's because they are seeing things like this.
Some people are seeing UFOs like you did.
Some people are seeing UFOs like you did.
Some people are going to Medjugorje like I did.
Some people are going to Medjugorje like I did.
Some people are having experiences with angels.
Some people are having experiences with angels.
Other people are having dreams or are noticing that weird things happen with Ouija boards.
But Michael, yours was clearly spiritual.
Mine was such a gray area.
I saw a craft, something that almost could not have been of this earth.
And so I'm left wondering out in the middle of nowhere what it was, but your experience
was kind of spiritual and seemed very clear.
I know.
And I've run into people, including a brother of mine who saw this craft pretty low in the
sky, not too much higher than a house.
Gover said it was enormous one time years ago.
And again, you think, gee, it seems mechanical, doesn't it?
But you don't know what this type of phenomena is.
Again, maybe it was.
How do I know what you saw?
How do I know?
I know from the type of person you are that you saw something.
But, you know, I couldn't pretend to know and explain exactly what it is you saw or what a lot of people have seen.
But I do know that the descriptions of quite a few of these cases reek of spiritual phenomena.
Alright, you investigated... I know you investigated telekinesis, didn't you?
I did.
That's phenomenal.
Is it real?
I mean, are people able to move things or affect material things with their mind?
Well, there's certainly a... Yeah, I believe the short answer is yes.
And the long answer, and I won't make it that long, is that I've been in laboratories where they did experiments with what they call random event generators and found out that people could divert the randomness of these machines against odds up to I think it was ten billion to one against chance.
These atomic type machines or machines run on thermal noise.
So there's a lot of evidence for that.
But once again, you've got to be careful because I used to think of it as just a scientific pursuit, another power of the mind, some kind of electrical dynamic coming from the brain.
Yes.
But it often isn't.
Often, again, often you've got to be careful because it can come From the dark side with a certain entity playing games with us, just like games are played with UFOs and Ouija boards and everything else.
Isn't there a danger, Michael, that coming from the Christian perspective, you would tend to perhaps miss something that is real and has a scientific explanation, and that you would miss it and tend to label it from the dark side?
Yeah, I mean, I think that can happen.
I think that anyone from any perspective, none of us have the whole picture, and we are narrow in our own ways, and I probably have done that in cases.
But I'll tell you, I mean, when you're talking about something like the Ouija board, I've been there, I've seen it.
I know what happens with that.
It's not good.
For example, if extraterrestrials, or what some would think as extraterrestrials, were actually to ever land, and the door opens up and the little green or grey guys or whatever they are walk out, I am convinced that enough Christians in this country would be absolutely convinced they were devils, that they'd be filled full of lead and they'd never make it to the bottom of the ramp.
Well, that might.
Again, I think I said that I don't discount the possibility of life on other planets.
As a matter of fact, it seems to me nearly absurd that Earth would be the only inhabited planet.
But I hasten to add that when you have eight million people claiming these experiences, that something's happening.
Something's happening, but I don't think it's from outer space, because I think that there would be, if it was extraterrestrial, and it affected 8 million people, we would have seen a lot more of it.
In other words, we would have had a lot more physical evidence.
There are many people predicting that there will be many beings, many craft, and many people talk about 1995, believe it or not, and the years between now and the year 2000, as having, I'm sure you've heard these rumors.
I certainly have.
One more very important thing I want to ask you about.
I've had a zillion calls here about events going on in California, Oregon, up the coast.
People picking up hitchhikers.
Oh yeah.
And you know where I'm going with this of course.
I read about it.
And there's something about the hitchhiker saying the horns are about to blow or whatever.
Gabriel's Trumpet.
That's right.
That's why I call my new book The Trumpet of Gabriel.
Because I looked at that hitchhiker phenomenon.
I don't know.
I don't know what is going on.
It's a classic case whether it's California or the state of Maine or all across the country.
I interviewed some people who actually picked up the hitchhiker and claimed to have picked up the hitchhiker.
Gabriel, the trumpet is approaching Gabriel's lip, or Gabriel is lifting a trumpet to his lip, or Christ is
coming soon, or whatever, and as you know, disappears from the back seat of a car.
Right.
And we have to remember that this type of hitchhiker phenomenon has been reported since the 1880s in this
country.
It wasn't cars back then, it was the horse and carriage, but I can't fathom it.
I don't know where it's coming from, but I do know that it's too widespread to be nothing.
When you interview people, how do you judge or try to judge their credibility?
I mean, as they tell you a story, do these people seem credible to you?
Do they seem kind of off the edge a little bit?
Religious fanatics?
I'm sure you have listeners who consider me a religious fanatic.
In fact, ten years ago, or twelve years ago, I would have considered myself, looking at myself now, a religious fanatic.
So I can understand certainly where they're coming from.
There certainly are people in any walk of life who go off the edge or who believe everything
and anything.
I'm asking you whether those people were in that category, in your opinion.
Those people were the hitchhikers?
Yes, sir.
Not the ones I interviewed?
No.
I'm not going to get into that.
But I can't speak for the others who are claiming this.
Often it seems like a rehashed myth.
In other words, often you can't get to the base of the rumor of these hitchhikers because they're really just uh... inaccurately reporting story they heard
you know third-hand from somebody who also heard it third-hand it's often just a rumor
but there have been some cases that i believe are legitimate
michael hold on we'll get back to you in just a moment i'm about to open up the
telephone lines if you would like to ask michael a question uh... come now first-time callers at area code six
702-727-1222.
The Wild Card Direct Aisle Lines, area code 702.
702-727-1295.
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Love You欸 Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
That's 702-727-1295.
702-727-1295. That's 702-727-1295. First time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
702-727-1222.
Now, here again, Art Bell.
Here again, I am.
Here's a fax just got in from Michael Brown, and I guess myself, a message.
I was asleep at 2 a.m.
when your show starts here in Ohio, and in a dream I was sitting next to you and you were reading Michael Brown's book to me.
My wife and mother were also in the room.
You took a break from your reading.
You gave me the book so I could look it over.
The book was very old and shaped like a frame.
Like picture frame!
With small print on aged paper with a hollow center area.
In the center area there was an old doll and loose rose petals.
I woke up with a start and there you were introducing Michael Brown.
And Michael Brown is my guest and my faxer wants to know if he interprets dreams.
And actually in view of how he got started on this journey that's probably a pretty good question and one we will pose with your calls in just a moment.
Dreams.
Dreams were a big subject in the O.J.
Simpson trial.
I came up, in fact, with a witness again the other day, Michael, and your journey, the present form, was launched with a dream.
Do you interpret dreams, or have you attempted to have yours interpreted?
I don't.
I'm mainly confused by them.
I don't pretend to have a lot of answers that I wish I did have.
There have been cases like in the Philippines where people have claimed to see the Virgin Mary and thousands of people claim to have seen rose petals that fell to the ground with images on them of Jesus or Mary and kind of Christian symbols.
I don't know if that's relevant at all, but I don't try to interpret dreams because it's It's just never worked for me, and it's something that I don't feel comfortable with.
This is the end of side one.
Please leave the cassette exactly where it is.
Let's launch into the world of telephones here.
See what we've got.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Brown.
Good morning.
Yes, good morning.
Thank you.
Where are you, sir?
I'm in Eugene, Oregon.
Eugene, Oregon, all right.
Yeah.
Michael, I wondered if you'd ever considered that My own belief is that we create our own reality, and my own personal belief is that evil doesn't really exist except in our minds.
And like people that you meet, we're all capable of what we would consider evil acts, but we're innately good.
There's nothing innately evil about us as people.
I believe the same is probably true of Other spiritual entities, I've had experiences and out of body experiences and I've had experiences that scared the heck out of me.
With a positive attitude I was always able to overcome and go move beyond.
All right, well, it's a good question.
Let's frame it this way.
Evil, each one of us with individual evil possibilities within, versus real evil.
And you are convinced, Michael, there is real evil.
I am, and I think there are too many coincidences.
Let's start with the word evil.
What does it spell backwards?
It spells the word live backwards, and I think that that's really a good definition of what evil is.
It twists things around.
turns them backwards, I think there's too much consistency.
Whether it's with Charles Manson and all of the symbols associated with him,
or going back centuries before to witches in Germany, or like I said centuries before that to pagan times in old
Egypt, consistent symbols like the swastika
that come through old Babylon right to the Nazis and the current day skinheads who do a lot of
evil deeds.
I think that there's just too much consistency to say, oh it's an artifact of our imagination,
it's just a convenient way of explaining negativity, and that all we need is a positive frame of mind.
I think your caller is right, that a positive way of looking at things
can transcend a negative experience.
We call positive thinking faith.
And I think with faith you can get above that.
And I don't think that we should overly dwell...
on people book but uh... you don't have to expose certain problems in
order to find a remedy
and i think that uh... saying that that we could do we construct our own reality
uh... it well i mean it's true to a certain extent through the way you act in life uh... you create your own
reality but i think you can go a little bit too far with that there are
certain things that exist their time honored
whether or not they're spoken of in in moses time around time there are tremendous
similarities in the spiritual realm and uh... i i i i i'm telling you right now that uh...
if the caller could have seen some of things uh... i've investigated i
don't think you have any doubt about the existence of an actual
metaphysical force all right well if that's true then uh...
you you uh... you mentioned charlie matson and i've always thought he
to when you look at him that man is evil
He's the embodiment of evil.
There's no question about it.
But then, should there not be a defense in the American justice system that basically says the devil made me do it?
Well, I don't know.
I mean, I'll say this, that a lot of times when the devil's involved, or demons, because there's not just one.
I used to think, well, okay, if there's a devil, what do I have to worry about?
There's nearly six billion people on this planet.
What are my chances of being the next Linda Blair?
I wasn't really, you know, I thought it was just kind of a freakish spirit.
But in fact, there's not just one spirit.
There are millions of forces out there.
and when you tap into those through sin, when you draw them to you because of how you are
conducting your life, whether it is drugs, whether it is certain types of sexual activity,
whether it is occultism, whatever it is, when you draw these forces into your life, you
are going to draw with them some of those negative supernatural phenomena.
and then you have to shake it.
Michael, as a matter of interest, how many times or how many cases of possession
have there ever been of people who are not believers?
Well, I think that there's a lot of cases of that, whether they're strict atheists or not, I don't know.
Agnostics.
I think you could argue that a guy like Hitler was possessed.
I think just calling him a politically evil person or a negative person who created his own reality,
well, I mean, it's true to a certain extent, but if you look at the Nazis,
you will find tremendous occultism in the background of those Nazis.
They were practitioners of witchcraft, of astrology, and things of this nature.
So there's a running theme here that goes, I think, way beyond something that's just an artifact of our primitive imagination.
Alright, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Brown.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Where are you, sir?
I'm in Denver.
Denver, alright.
And I used to live up in Jackson, Wyoming.
I ran into a hitchhiker, and I'm not a... I wouldn't call myself a... I hate to use the term Bible-thumper, but I'm not.
I picked up a gentleman one day, north of Jackson.
He had very Christ-like features as far as his hair and face.
He was wearing a white shirt, tan pants.
And I gave him a ride about five miles to the Jackson Airport.
He didn't tell me any gloom and doom or anything.
He was very quiet.
But as I let him out of the airport, I said, you know, do you have, you know, what you need to, you know, you don't have any baggage.
And he looked at me and he had these really piercing blue eyes.
And he said, I have everything I need right here.
And in his hand, he was holding a Bible.
And that was strange.
I mean, I'm not... Hitchhikers.
All right, well, I certainly appreciate the story, sir.
There's one for you.
And you hear that quite frequently, especially when they describe the eyes, of course.
It sounds like the classic descriptions of a manifestation of an angel or something of that type.
I believe so, yes.
I've seen a lot of stories, Michael.
They've had a lot of shows on about angels, guardian angels, that sort of thing.
Do you believe in those?
I do.
I believe they're all around, and I believe that that's the positive side of all this.
You've got to be careful that it's not a deception, whether from the imagination or from another realm, but I believe that this whole explosion I'm going to tell you something, and I'm going to stick to my story here.
Over the years, I've done programs with a fellow named John Lear.
He is the son of Bill Lear, who invented the Learjet.
He is a ufologist.
He's studied UFOs for a long time, and he has come in recent years to the spiritual side of the question with regard to UFOs and he thinks in fact
that they may be demonic in nature and he said to me something once that I've never
shaken, Michael.
He said that he had good information and believed that when the choice comes, when you die,
when you pass over to the other side, you should not go toward the light.
He said, the light is a trick.
You should go toward the darkness.
And I've never been able to shake that.
I don't know.
I still feel a little more comfortable, I guess, with the light.
If it's holy, I think what you should do is pray.
There is so much phenomena going on that, you know, even these near-death experiences are fascinating and I read them and I think, like I said before, that a lot of them are valid, but others you have to be careful with because they start to get in the realm where they seem like some type of deception.
So we have to be so careful in this realm.
Some of the near-death experiences, That's right.
And what do they see?
And then there's one other aspect that we haven't touched on yet with near-death experiences, and they're not told
Michael They're rarely told but there are people who have near-death
experiences that don't involve the light They don't involve a good experience. In fact just the
opposite they involve Something very frightening Michael. That's right. That's
right. And what do they see they when they have these experiences in that tunnel?
Instead of seeing an angel of light they they see demonic faces and beast-like
Claws heading towards them and they usually come back and change their lives. Yeah
As a matter of fact, I just read a book that's out now about a woman who had an experience that seemed like very close to hell.
So there are positive and negative experiences after life, just like there are during life.
Isn't that a little like the experience you had with that dream?
Well, in the way of being a conversional experience, I would say yes.
I felt that even though I wasn't involved in any evil in the way of... I was a reporter reporting on the mafia, and I had done some investigating, like I said, into psychic phenomena, which is now... now they call it New Age.
You know, even though I wasn't involved in that stuff myself, I was close enough That I think that the situation was becoming dangerous for me on a spiritual scale, and I think that's why I talk about it now, even a dozen years later.
Some of it was rubbing off on you?
Well, again, I was getting too close for comfort, and I don't want to see other people go through the same turmoil that I had to go through to get out of it.
Alright, Ease to the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Brown, good morning.
Hello there.
Yes sir, you're on the air.
Where are you calling from?
I'm calling from Jacksonville, North Carolina.
Okay, go ahead.
I had a question actually about the trumpets of Jericho or something like that.
Of Gabriel.
Gabriel, yes.
Yes, that's it.
What exactly is that?
Can you explain what that is and the significance here of Yes, we absolutely will, sir.
Listen on the air.
Michael, there is a movie I've seen that I've recommended to people because it was such a shocker.
Have you ever seen a movie called The Rapture?
I have not.
With some hesitation, because it's a shocker, I recommend it to you.
Now, The Trumpets of Gabriel.
Well, I mean, biblically, whether it's in the Book of Revelation or elsewhere, the trumpet is used to announce something.
And, of course, Gabriel is the angel who announced the coming of Jesus to Mary.
And is there a significance with an announcement of major events coming?
Say, all these alleged hitchhikers saying that Gabriel is bringing the trumpet to his lips.
Does that mean chastisement?
Does that mean, like what you mentioned, with events coming in the world?
A lot of people think that we're on the verge of some type of manifestation of Christ's power.
Some type of, perhaps, phenomenon that will bring people back.
I don't know, but again, This hitchhiker phenomenon comes right from, is not related at all to Marion Apparitions, and yet it's part of the Supernatural episode.
There's so much going on right now, and I don't pretend, and I hope I haven't come across that pretentiously, because I don't pretend to have the answers.
I'm just trying to observe and report, and to warn.
But something's coming down.
Something big's about to happen.
Something big is about to happen.
And as in 2010, you wouldn't necessarily say it's something wonderful.
Well, at Medjugorje, the Virgin Mary gave these six visionaries nine or ten secrets, depending on... some of them have ten secrets, some have nine.
And these secrets pertain to events coming to the world, or at least some of the secrets do.
And I interviewed one of the visionaries named Mediana, who said that The first three secrets she was given have to do with events that will come as warnings to mankind, along with some kind of great miracle.
She says that when the first secret unfolds, a lot of the media will just explain it away as a natural event.
It will be some type of disaster or catastrophe on a regional scale.
We'll hear about it and we'll see it, but we won't know.
Everyone won't experience it at once.
And then she says that another event will come, and this time it'll be a lot harder for the scientists and for the
media to just...
Ignore it.
...prove true.
And then, uh, then his third great miracle.
And then later on she says that the, the, especially the ninth and tenth secrets have to do with the...
the very grave events for the world.
And now again, like you very astutely pointed out, a lot of these prophecies can be conditional,
but these Medjugorje secrets seem to involve something of rather unprecedented proportion.
Well, I just know I feel it.
I'm not a particularly religious person, I should tell you, Michael.
I guess I'm agnostic, but I feel something, and a lot of other people in the audience
feel something coming.
And this seems to jive with what you're saying, jive with what Gordon Michael Scallion
and others are saying.
And as I listen to you talk about an event followed by another larger event,
I am calling from Vancouver, Washington. By the way, didn't you win a Pulitzer Prize for
some of your work?
You should have mentioned that, Michael.
He's nominated for the gold medal and from my understanding came in second, but they
don't really have a formal second place.
You can't verify that.
You should have mentioned that, Michael.
I had no idea.
Well, you know, being nominated and winning are two different things.
I would say it's a great honor and would have been worth mentioning.
Anyway, caller, anything else?
Yeah, I read a lot of your work, Michael, and I think you're one of the foremost and best writers within the Marian movement.
One of the sections in the book, and I think might have been the final hour, maybe one of the other books that has always kind of bothered me, was the references to communism getting its start really from Uh, an organized human demonic organization that bankrolled communism in Russia.
Are you familiar with what I'm talking about?
Yes, the Illuminati.
Okay, the Illuminati.
And everything I've ever heard about this has never, uh, I mean, I know of nothing factual that actually points to this.
Alright, let's ask.
Well, you know, I don't think you can really prove it.
There's, again, a lot of these things operate in a different, quite frankly, a different dimension.
But there are organizations that have been very humanistic and, quite frankly, anti-Christian that are based in some of the ancient mystery religions, like the Egyptian stuff we mentioned earlier.
and now they are considered just kind of like social clubs.
But some movers and shakers in the banking world and government and so forth belong just
for political purposes and yet seems tied into organizations that in the past have bankrolled
people like Vladimir Lenin and of course the one who brought communism to full force in
the Soviet Union.
So I think there is something to it.
And frankly the one who wrote about this was Pat Robertson in a book called The New World
Order.
I think there's something behind it, but I'm no expert at it.
All right, I want to ask you about the New World Order, and we haven't even touched on the Antichrist yet, so hopefully I can dredge another hour from you?
Sure.
Great.
All right, Michael, stay right where you are.
We're headed toward the top of the hour.
My guest is Michael Brown, his latest book, The Final Hour.
And oh my, what it seems to say.
We'll be back.
you're listening to Coast to Coast AM.
I'm going to play a song for you.
Call Art Bell toll free, west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
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This is the CBC Radio Network.
There is a great battle on earth going on between good and evil.
During the past century, my guest has written, and especially the last 10 years,
we on earth have been experiencing a major supernatural episode.
My guest, Michael Brown, nominated, we just found out, for a Pulitzer.
The man who broke the Love Canal story is here talking about the supernatural.
And what it means.
And what it means to us.
And why all of this is going on and what it's building toward.
And we're going to get back to them in just a very few moments.
It's going to be a caller intensive hour.
So get on the phone or the fax machine if you have a question.
This may be a good way to launch into this hour.
Dear Art, I'm a Christian with a very strong faith, but have had odd experiences in the past few years and would like to ask Mr. Brown whether his investigations have discovered if there is any particular gemstones that are associated with Satan or any more associated with God.
It seems strange, but I wear a large variety of gemstone jewelry And certain ones make me feel anxious or depressed, while others give me an energetic, peaceful feeling.
Some gemstone rings I wear on my left middle finger even seem to decrease the circulation.
I'm not a flake, but I'm curious, since I believe God made all things, including all the natural stones which are set into jewelry.
I would appreciate Michael Brown's view based on his research, Charlotte, up in Portland.
Michael?
Oh, wait a minute, let's press a button.
Michael, there you are.
Yeah, I don't know, I really don't know anything about gemstones and all that, but it makes me a little bit wary because it gets into all this crystal New Age type things, and I don't know, I mean, I guess I'm Christian enough that if I'm going to wear something it's going to be a cross, a crucifix, but I really don't know.
It's something that may make him feel anxious because it's tied into Some of it can be tied into the occult.
Again, this gets back to ancient pagan practices.
You know, they call it New Age, but it's old age in a new bottle.
It's just rehashed occultism, and we have to be careful.
A new label.
All right, let's as much as we can go to the phones.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Brown.
Hi.
Hi, my name is Darlene Miller calling from New Orleans.
Yes.
Hi, first of all, I want to thank Art Bell and, of course, his speaker, Michael Brown, because I think this subject is long overdue.
You mentioned spiritual warfare, and that is exactly what is going on.
Most people don't realize where this warfare is taking place, but the battlefield is in the mind.
Well, I would also say in New Orleans, you're on the front lines.
Yes, exactly.
I called into a talk show about a week ago, and when I mentioned that, a lot of callers behind me called in and were furious.
And that's the deception.
They have been deceived.
And I like when Mr. Brown used that word, deceived, because that is exactly what is going on.
As much as I don't want to sound like a preacher or what have you, I think the more you get into the Word of God, the more He reveals to you the spiritual things, the spiritual mysteries that You can begin to see spiritually the things that are happening, the things that are anti-Christ.
You mentioned evil demons and devils.
Well, there's only one devil and he has a host of demons that he dispatches to do all of his demonic activities.
Also, the angels are there to combat those.
That's also a warfare going on as we speak.
As we talk, there may be angels sitting right by you, listening.
And this big airway that you have, Art Bell, it's great because he wants his word, God wants his word to get out to as many people as possible.
Okay, I hope that's what we're doing.
She touched on the Antichrist, and I meant to ask you about that, Michael.
The Antichrist.
Who is he?
Is he around now?
Is he due to be around soon?
What's the deal?
Well, I'll start out by being candid and saying I don't know.
But I'll also add that to be frank about it, Art, there are a lot of prophecies coming from the Catholic realm that say that the answer may be yes.
I mean, we don't know the legitimacy of many of these prophecies, but I have a chapter
in the book about one woman in South America, I went to see her in Ecuador, who claims to
be having apparitions of the Virgin Mary, and claims, and I say claims and I emphasize
that because I don't know if it's true or not, but she claims that she was told as part
of her message that the Antichrist is alive in the flesh and he's a young man.
Now, this sounds preposterous to a lot of people, and in fact, if you look historically,
we've seen claims like this throughout history, especially in the 13th and the 14th centuries.
But there certainly is a spirit of Antichrist rising right now, and one wonders if perhaps
there is going to be a big shakeup, there is going to be this new world order, and there's
going to be an attempt at one world religion, and then a lot of things are going to come
down, both natural events, societal events like perhaps riots and chaos, and the spiritual
events like perhaps some type of political leader who will, if not the Antichrist himself,
will be some type of precursor.
So there's just a lot of battling going on, and it's going to materialize more and more
into the physical realm.
Alright, economically, politically, I would say the new world order is on the way, Michael.
Anybody with any common sense looks at how things develop, and they develop first economically, and we are now hooked up economically, without any doubt, if not interdependent, and the political changes inevitably follow that.
So we're headed, you know, toward a one world something.
Does it have to be, in your opinion, evil?
Well, it certainly doesn't have to be.
Or will it be?
It's very dangerous.
Art, I've got to be honest with you, I'm wary a lot of times of the United Nations and what they propagate.
Indeed.
Because if you have anything that can control the world from a single source, you have to be wary that that single source is going to end up being evil.
Um, throughout history the world has never been united as one world, and you're right.
There are movements in that direction.
There are some frightening things when you look at what's happening in Brussels with unifying Europe, and you look at the trade agreements and so forth.
I don't want to be paranoid.
Because I think we can, you know, we can start to be chicken little here sometimes.
Sure.
But on the other hand, look around you.
What's going on here with this globalism?
And what bothers me is that when you do have globalism, like United Nations Religious Program, they have a spiritual program that tries to unify religion.
They always try to unify it under a pagan belief system, and there's a real anti-Christian bent.
It's true.
You've traveled to Medjugorje three times, you said, and around the world.
Four times.
Four times.
And checked out people who have seen these apparitions, and I'm curious, since you've been close by, have you ever seen one yourself?
I have never seen an apparition.
I've seen manifestations of the Virgin Mary in Venezuela.
I'll tell you about that one second, but I'd like to add that some of my most profound experiences We're in the former Soviet Union.
Way in the hinterlands, I mean in peasant villages back before the fall of communism, villages that don't have telephones, don't have radio, don't have newspapers, and yet in village after village, widely separated remote villages, they were all reporting phenomena back in 1987 with the Virgin Mary and with visions of Jesus that seem to portend some major event,
which perhaps ended up being the fall of communism, and some unsettling prophecies about
a great future war that may well involve the Soviet Union and China.
I'm very concerned about the former republics of the Soviet Union.
I'm very concerned about the Islamic element there.
I'm very concerned even about Turkey, which isn't part of the Soviet Union, but can cause a lot of Islamic unrest in the Soviet Union and in China.
You know about the riots now going on?
When I saw that recently I said, watch out, because I've been wondering about Turkey for
years now.
And we have to be very wary of what could happen with these former republics of the
Soviet Union.
Because when the Virgin Mary came to Medjugorje, it was in Yugoslavia, and in 1981 she came
saying, peace, have peace, because if you don't, there's going to be, she implied, a
hideous conflict.
And at the time no one paid attention because Yugoslavia looked like it was going to make
the easiest transition to democracy and capitalism.
That's right.
And right now we know what happened.
It degenerated into a hideous conflict.
Well, you have the same ethnic mix in the former republics of the Soviet Union.
The same ethnic hostilities, but on a much greater level.
I am especially interested in the fact that all of these apparitions in the Soviet Union
began on the first anniversary of Chernobyl.
I am also interested in the fact, and this is a coincidence, that the word Chernobyl
is a Ukrainian word for a bitter herb that we would translate as being wormwood.
If you look in the book of Revelation, wormwood has a lot of implications.
Yes, it does.
Wow.
And what, again, what is striking to me, and you can't appreciate this because you did
not, I had to send you the interview I had with Gordon Michael Scallion.
You two are traveling down exactly the same roads, giving exactly the same warnings.
It's just that you're coming from a Christian perspective, and he was coming from pure prophecy, if you will.
Not connected, at least in his mind.
Well, maybe it was.
You two, though, are going down such a similar road that it's frightening.
uh... west of the rockies you're on the air uh... michael brown hi
hi this is jenny in santa rosa california ksro yes uh...
Michael, I'm very impressed with your credibility and your background.
The lady from New Orleans was quite right.
This is spiritual warfare that we're in.
Being so fleshly, of course, we take it that way and interpret it from that point of view, rather from a spiritual.
The two comments I want to make are, one, the scripture is very clear that Satan will appear as an angel of light, because, I mean, if he appeared as the evil being that he was, he'd reveal himself and people would flee and not be deceived.
And the question I have for you, Michael, is Um, these apparitions of the Virgin Mary, um, in various places, and I'm not denying that these things are occurring.
What I'm, um, pointing out is what I believe is the source.
We are told very clearly in Scripture not to consort with the dead, that necromancy is against what the Lord wants for us.
So how Is it consistent with Scripture and God's Word that people could be consorting with Mary, who would be a dead human being?
Well, it's a very good question, and I have to say that back, I think, in Exodus and Deuteronomy, when we're told about sorcery and enchanterism and so forth, necromancy is communicating with the dead.
We should not consort with mediums and people who allow spirits to talk through them.
But I think you have to draw a distinction between occultic communication with the dead and holy mysticism.
You look at Christ. Christ in his transfiguration spoke to the dead.
He was still in human form when he spoke to Moses and Elijah.
He had the apparitions of Moses and Elijah along with a couple of his disciples.
So there is a precedent for it, and I think that these appearances of the Virgin Mary are quite distinct from that type of occultism.
Although I've got to also tell you that there are cases of people reporting to Virgin Mary that turn out to be either products of imagination or exaggeration or spiritual deception.
So that does happen.
But I do think that we're right now in Revelation 12 and we're starting to begin Revelation chapter 13.
And chapter 12 of Revelation talks about a woman clothed with the sun.
and appearing in the remote hinterlands like Yugoslavia.
And I think that if you look back at that and what is said in Genesis about the woman putting her heel to the snake, the serpent's head, I think that we begin to form a precedent for what's going on.
Michael, from AP down in San Diego, would you ask your guest his impression of Hal Lindsey's writings and Elizabeth Clare Proffitt's teachings?
Elizabeth Clare Prophet, from what I understand, and I don't know anything about her, but certainly a lot of people say that it gets into this New Age stuff, and I'd like to stay away from that.
And Harold Lindsay, Harold Lindsay's a Christian.
He gets into a lot of Biblical prophecy from the Protestant perspective, or from the non-denominational perspective.
He goes further than I do.
He says things in a stronger way than I would as a journalist.
Again, as I mentioned, I can't sit here from my vantage point and tell you that we're in the The last days that we're approaching some final coming or final judgment, but I will say that guys like Lindsay are feeling some type of prophetic impulse, something like you're feeling too, Art.
Something is coming down the pike, and we better be prepared for it.
Michael, I have a question.
I have a question. In the book of Hebrews it speaks in reference to vessels of destruction
being created, almost giving the impression, and I wanted to find out your opinion, that
we really have no choice when it's all said and done. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Not quite.
It says that God created vessels of destruction as well as vessels for glory.
Meaning that there are vessels that were created for the dark.
and that there were vessels created for light.
Maybe you're talking about UFOs.
Well, and that there is no choice.
That there is no choice.
That these individuals are predestined to be as they are.
Is that what you're saying?
Yes, correct. Absolutely.
All right, that's what he means.
Well, you know, there's so many references in the Bible to vessel.
I just, while you were talking, quickly punched into my computer, and I think you can find the word vessel in 20 books, it says here.
But I don't know, when it comes to evil, I think that's a choice.
I don't think that God We've got to pause here at the bottom of the hour.
Michael Brown is my guest.
ourselves or that we hook into. I shouldn't say we create because it was here before we ever existed.
As Christ said that he saw Satan fall like lightning.
Alright, Michael, we've got to pause here at the bottom of the hour.
Michael Brown is my guest. He is the journalist that broke the Love Canal story.
From a Christian perspective, he's talking about his new book now, The Final Hour.
The century of good versus evil, and there is more, and we'll tell you, by the way, in just a moment, how to get this book.
we'll be right back music playing
music playing music playing
music playing Art Bell is taking calls on the wild card line
That's 702-727-1295.
First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
702-727-1222.
Now, here again, Art Bell.
Good morning, everybody.
1-2-9-5. First time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
702-727-1222. Now, here again, Art Bell.
Good morning everybody, my guest is Michael Brown, an investigative journalist and now an author.
His book, The Final Hour, is the one we're spending a lot of time with.
Michael has a very distinguished background.
He's in Albany, New York, and we will be getting back to Michael in just a moment.
I've got a number of faxes, a number of questions, and we're going to find out, in fact, we're going to pry the information from him about exactly How you go about getting his book, and because it is somewhat Christian in nature, you can't walk into any bookstore.
I presume you can walk into some and get them.
We'll find out exactly how you can get them, so get a pencil and paper ready.
Now, once again, here's Michael Brown from Albany.
Michael?
Yeah?
Let's tell him how to get your book.
I guess you can't walk into any bookstore and get it?
Well, you can in some, but you can order it through Walden's, the Christian bookstores, the Catholic bookstores.
But in some parts of the country there's a problem because the secular stores don't often carry some of the Christian prophecies, even though the books sell as much as what they do carry.
But there is an 800 number that's available Monday morning.
and they can call out and get the book also.
Alright, let's give it to them.
I'm going to try and say it here, you tell me if I'm wrong.
I've got 1-800-576-6477.
Yeah, that's, yeah, 800-576-6477.
Good.
And they can call it Monday morning?
That's right.
And they can order either the trumpet of Gabriel and or the final hour?
That's true.
Okay.
All right, excellent.
I'd like to, in the remaining time, spend as much time on the phones as we can.
On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Michael Brown.
Hi.
Hi, calling from Sault Ste.
Marie, Ontario.
Ontario, yes.
Yeah, for Canada there.
Yeah, I just had a question, or actually a comment, I guess, for Michael there.
This is about all the Bible, the book of Revelations there.
It had this thing that was mentioned a couple of times about this Babylon, the great thing, eh?
And I just wondered if Michael or Mr. Brown there knew anything about that, what that was or anything.
Well, certainly in...
If you look in the book of Revelation and you see the reference there to Babylon, it
is very striking.
It seems like nearly a description of where I used to live, New York City, or I guess
you could say Los Angeles too.
A place where all of the merchants of the earth came and had all of these luxuries and
all of these jewels and precious stones and pearls and linen and purple and silk and all
of this other stuff.
And also with intessentiality and all kinds of promiscuity and so forth, perversion.
And of course we know what happened to Babylon.
It was destroyed.
So maybe it pertains, the fall of Babylon pertains to what is going on in American cities
these days, especially New York and Los Angeles and San Francisco.
Michael, how do you view AIDS?
I find it peculiar that it strikes the way it does.
There's always plagues that take innocence with them.
I'd be a liar if I told you I didn't have some of the earmarks of a classical plague.
But I know that that raises tremendous ire with people, and yet it seems kind of site-specific.
It does, but as you mentioned, of course, it takes with it innocence.
As all chastisement does.
Here's a fact.
My wife has been following the apparitions for some time now.
She receives something called the Blue Letter that reports on what Mary has revealed to the visionaries.
Since she began appearing, the message has been to pray, pray, pray, especially as a family.
Let's see, as a family, I'm sorry.
Recently, she revealed to the visionaries that people have been responding to her plea for praying, fasting, and penance, and have in some way alleviated or decreased the degree of one of the seven secrets which have been revealed to the visionaries.
So, I guess, suggesting there has been progress?
I think that's true in some regard.
At least things have been postponed.
Now that 7th secret at Medjugorje, was it the 7th or 8th that was lessened there?
That's been reported now several years back.
So again, pointing out that these can be conditional prophecies.
However, I think if you take things in its totality, we've got a long way to go if we're going to prevent, like I said, major purifications from coming.
But I like that fact because it shows that there's hope.
There's a lot of hope.
We can pray our way out of this.
This is the end of side one.
please leave the cassette exactly where it is, flip it over, and begin again.
See if you like this one. It's reported in the English translation of the Bible that Jesus instructed his
followers to love your enemy.
If Satan is the enemy, how does your guest interpret that?
I like that you're referring to human enemies, and he is not human.
Anything but.
Indeed.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Brown.
Good morning.
Good morning, calling from St.
Louis.
Yes.
Yes, Michael, I really like the way you communicate your ideas.
I was wanting to... I agree with the lady from Louisiana, another caller who remarked on the spiritual warfare, and I'd like to boil it down further to the spiritual issue of control of the planet versus freedom of the planet spiritually.
And what I see presently right now is a huge amount of money, government funds being thrown at our social problems, crime, illiteracy, and drug addiction.
And yet those problems are not diminishing, they're multiplying and expanding like wildfire.
And the field that it's supposed to be handling has been assigned to handle this area, these experts and professionals in the field of psychiatry and mental health, which is not a science and it has no proven method to justify its existence.
Their theory is that man is a mere animal, a soulless being, and these treatments have been used to rationalize doing all manner of things, and I was wondering if you could comment on that.
Well, I have pretty strong feelings on this, and again, I don't want to sound like Mr. Know-it-all, because I recognize how very little I do know, and I mean that sincerely.
However, I've got to say that there are a lot of things in psychology and psychiatry that are mislabeled.
A lot of the schizophrenia and psychosis, other forms of psychosis, including, of course, multiple personality, I think speaks
more to possession and spiritual problems than to something quote psychological unquote.
I think that calling it a psychological term like schizophrenia is a smoke screen that
prevents us from solving the problem.
If we would look at the spiritual roots of a lot of the problems in our society, whether
it's drug use or crime or whatever, then I think we could make real progress.
And the same with somebody who is quote mentally ill unquote.
Therefore, Michael, what is a psychiatrist doing?
In my opinion, not too much.
They're collecting big paychecks.
But simply tampering about and stirring the evil pot, basically.
Look at their success rate.
I mean, I'd gladly compare the success rate of a deliverance minister or an exorcist with that of a psychiatrist or a psychotherapist.
Well said.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Brown.
Hello. No, you're not. First time caller line, you're on the air with Michael Brown. Good morning.
Michael, I have spoken with Arthur before regarding the enthusiasm the public has around the world for killing its
children, its fetuses.
Do you suspect that the enthusiasm for this practice might lie in something that you've outlined already in the
conversations that you've had earlier tonight?
Yeah, it's a good question.
What is it now?
1.5 or 6 million abortions a year, Michael.
Any comment?
37 billion worldwide.
I mean, I think we always have to look at the worldwide perspective because this crisis is an international one.
I think abortion is the biggest problem in human history.
Everyone is waiting for the big one or some event that will destroy a city, but every year in this country, with 1.5 abortions, that's like wiping out the cities of Dallas and Buffalo combined.
So I think the chastisement in some ways is already here through our own hands.
But I'll tell you, you get this constantly through these Marian apparitions and the most
credible ones.
If we don't stop this blood practice, which is really nearly a blood sacrifice, unknowingly,
it's an unknowing blood sacrifice, if we don't stop this practice, then I think you can expect
some truly, truly major events to happen, including in Western Europe with a natural
event and in the former republics of the Soviet Union with warfare and natural disasters here
in America.
We're starting to see, with Hurricane Andrew, with these bizarre storms that have hit the
East Coast, we're always hearing, storm of the century, storm of the century.
California earlier this week, storm of the century geographically with so many counties involved.
How many storms of the century do we need?
Holland, which is one of the most liberal countries on Earth, just was flooded out.
I mean, we're constantly hearing about the Mississippi flooding, or the Rhine flooding, or like I said, the earthquake in Kobe, or volcanoes and so forth.
When are we going to wake up and realize that something is fundamentally wrong, and that these events are going to increase in frequency and intensity until we wake up.
And if we don't wake up, then we're going to see something of global proportions.
We're going to see some type of nearly cosmic event.
All right.
On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Michael Brown.
Hello.
I'm on?
You're on.
Turn your radio off.
Oh, great.
Okay.
Where are you, sir?
I'm in Moscow, Idaho.
All right.
Yeah.
And anyway, what I'm calling about is that I personally, I feel that I've had two experiences with angelic presences.
One was when I was 11 years old.
It was in December of 69.
It only lasted for a short time, but it was after a church service.
By the way, my background is Lutheran.
That's not to say that I'm a particularly good Lutheran, but, you know, I've always taken it seriously.
But the second time that it happened was in January of 93.
And earlier in that day, I was in my university.
I'm a graduate student.
And anyhow, we were talking in class about the possibility of supernatural events being considered in history.
And anyhow, I mentioned about Mejiguri, that this was something that you had to take seriously.
Not that I was any expert on it, but I knew a little bit about it.
You know, particularly the fact that there were predictions of a war, and of course this was in Bosnia, and we all know what happened there.
So anyhow, I remember at the point that I started talking about that, there was a certain feeling of warmth that I felt within myself.
And later on, when I came back home from class, I felt very... I really did feel like there was an angelic presence, an incredible feeling of warmth, Love, peacefulness, and it stayed with me for, I would say, over an hour.
And after that, I actually ended up writing a beautiful poem, which was published in a local publication, which had quite a bit of what you might call subtle religious imagery.
But at any rate, I just basically wanted to come out of the closet and say that this is for real.
Alright, thank you.
Michael, are the incidences of this kind of thing increasing?
And I'm sure you're going to say they are.
How do we document that fact?
Well, of course, you know, as you know, with a fax machine and telephones and TV, things can seem more intense than they really are.
And in recorded history, because they didn't have the type of communication system we have, and because they didn't have the recording and reportage we have, we can't really compare.
But it certainly seems as if... This much I can tell you.
With Marian apparitions, apparitions of the Virgin Mary, I have spoken in the last two and a half years in 108
cities and everywhere I go I run into people who are having experiences like your other caller or
even stronger experiences visually, seeing things or hearing prophecy. I know that I
didn't hear this three years ago or four years ago or ten years ago, so something is
definitely going on. Like you said, if nothing else you can sense it. If you talk to bishops
and priests they will tell you that they have been around for a long time and
they have never seen anything approaching this. So I think there is an objective reason
to think that it is increasing tremendously in frequency and intensity. I hope we heed the reason for
this whole episode.
All right.
You don't have to answer this.
I'm going to try to pin you to the wall a little bit here.
Given no change in course, And I mean no change in course, and I don't think there's going to be one.
I guess I'm pessimistic here.
How long do you think we have before there is a major event?
Well, the Medjugorje visionaries said that they're going to live to see the secrets that they were given unfold.
They're in their late twenties.
One of them said that before the events begin to unfold that she will alert her spiritual
director who is a priest who is probably 55 years old at least right now, which implies
that he will see the events. So I think in our lifetimes, if we are in our
40s and 50s certainly, but I think even as decades we are seeing things already, we are
going to see more and more as this decade, as this century, as this millennium starts
to approach its uncertain conclusions.
So, I'm not saying something's going to happen in the year 2000.
I want to make that clear.
We can, as you said, get into this millennial madness.
Sure.
I think the next few years are going to be very interesting, and I think I've got to play hard.
I'll play it straight from the shoulder, because that's the way I like to talk when I get in this realm.
America doesn't change course, and it's a good country with good people with a good heart and a good spirit.
It was founded on Christianity.
And even Washington had an alleged apparition of an angelic or female being, a beautiful being.
If it doesn't change current course...
America, as we know it, is going to basically disassemble.
It's going to fall apart.
It's not going to be recognizable in 25 to 30 years through not just natural disasters, but through societal chaos and rioting and economic problems.
I think you're going to see some very interesting economic things in the future, as well as all of these other events.
I would, again, keep an eye on all kinds of events occurring in parts of the country as being precursors for larger storms and larger societal chaos, larger crimes.
The knocks on the door will get more frequent, more urgent, and louder.
Until the door itself is blown in.
And I think that we may well see the breakdown of our technological society.
In some ways, our society has become artificial.
In many ways, it's become artificial.
And I think that this artificiality, this plasticity, this plastic way of living, is going to be broken down and we're going to live humbler and simpler lives.
And I think that there's going to be widespread devastation through plagues, And new plagues.
There's even a movie out right now called Outbreak, and I think we should pay attention to prophecy, not just from the religious realm, but also from some of our artists, because they too feel this prophetic impulse.
I just read a book called The Hot Zone, and it scared the hell out of me.
I read the same book, and it's incredible what a virus can do and what kind of viruses can mutate.
Watch out for viruses.
Watch out for viruses.
In the last couple of days, there has been a report of this new flesh-eating disease in Minnesota, so there you are.
Michael, it sure has been a pleasure having you on.
Pleasure being with you, Art.
And I hope lots of people call up and order your book.
1-800-576-6477.
uh... one eight hundred five seven six six four seven seven the trumpet of gabriel and the final
hour all i can say is michael thank you
Well, thank you.
It was a pleasure.
It's been a great three hours.
Take care, Michael.
You take care, too.
Okay, that's Michael Brown.
And I hope you enjoyed it.
That was a good, solid three hours.
And by the way, those of you, and I imagine there are going to be many, and I'm going to have to ask for a little bit of patience from the audience, those of you who would like to order copies of the program you've just heard, May do so beginning now at the following telephone number.
Please take it down.
The number to order copies of this program, $19.50 for three hours, would be 1-800-917-4278.
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