Art Bell

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March 17, 1995 - Art Bell

01:59:31

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Michael Brown - Apocalypse

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33:23

michael brown

01:07:16

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I did you all good evening or good morning as the case may be.
		And welcome to another edition, a Friday night, Saturday morning edition of Coast to Coast AM, live out across this great land, across all these time zones, from Christmas Island and Tahiti and the Hawaiian Islands, east into the Caribbean, south into northern South America, and of course, north to the North Pole.
		Fair coverage, huh?
		Good to be here, everybody.
		And we are going to take a bit of a turn, as I do so many times on this program.
		It's my feeling that talk radio should be no single thing.
		And I've conducted it that way for years and years now.
		We're going to have a guest tonight.
		His name is Michael Brown.
		And he will come from the Christian perspective.
		He has written a book called The Final Hour.
		Michael is an investigative journalist.
		He actually broke the Love Canal story.
		You remember that?
		And now author, I think, two times over at least since then.
		We'll tell you about his books, but this should reach out and grab you.
		The reports come from deep in the former Soviet Union, where towering apparitions of Jesus and Mary seem to announce the fall of communism.
		From the damp, windswept peat of Ireland, where visions are given of the crucifixion from war-torn Yugoslavia, where the Virgin has appeared since 1981, and a mountainside in Venezuela, where the sun pulses and spins and throws off colors of great splendor.
		During the past century, and especially the last 10 years, we on earth have been experiencing a major supernatural episode.
		Reports of unusual events, spiritual events coming from every habitable continent.
		That's a bit of a teaser, and he will explain what he means, and we will talk of many things in a few moments when Michael Brown is here.
		I think you're going to enjoy it.
		I think I am too.
		I am not a Catholic, but I've always thought Catholicism a beautiful, truly beautiful religion.
		And in just a moment, we will embark and find out the Catholic view of what's going on in the world.
		And you all know with predictions and prophecy, and these are things we're going to touch on, by the way.
		I want to thank Virginia at Ancient Prophecies.
		We've had a wonderful relationship.
		For turning me on to Michael Brown.
		She's the one who is responsible for suggesting Michael as a guest.
		All right, let's do it.
		I think he's in New York.
		Let's try and connect with Michael Brown, author of The Final Hour and More.
		Michael, good evening.
		Well, good morning there, I guess.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Nice to be with you, Eric.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good to have you, Michael.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, actually?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Albany, New York, actually just north, about eight miles, about three miles north of New York City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Albany, New York, near the Big Apple.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Old Cuomo country, but he's no longer here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but he's still on our TV screens.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he still pops up, doesn't he?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think he's selling Doritos with the ex-governor of Texas.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		It started to be selling some of the things that were sold here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Michael, let's, instead of reading, I've got sort of a bio on you here, but I thought I would let you tell us what you have done and how you have come to the final hour.
		In other words, what is your history?
		You were a journalist, right?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		So I started out.
		I was a newspaper journalist, local reporter, Niagara Falls, involved, like you said, in the exposure, the breaking of the story of the Love Canal toxic waste dump, as well as the entire situation of hazardous waste across America.
		I wrote a book back in 1980 called Laying Waste that kept me busy for 10 years afterwards, traveling around warning about this danger.
		And I lived in New York City for much of my career.
		I wrote a book on the mafia.
		I wrote another book on the environment.
		I wrote a lot of science articles.
		Or books.
		I wrote a book called A Search for Eve, which was about a theory that through DNA they had tracked the first human being back or common ancestor of female ancestry in Africa and things of that nature.
		I was a contributing editor at Science Digest and so forth.
		to write magazine stories and then about five years ago went into full-time research into what i would call i guess christian phenomena for lack of a better term in other words I don't want to leave your early work for just a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got plenty of time.
		Radio is such a luxury.
		Michael, the Love Canal thing, I've read and heard so much about that.
		I can only imagine and would love to have you tell us a little of what it was like when that story was breaking.
		But then to jump to the end of it for a second, I saw a piece not very long ago that seemed to suggest that a big mistake had been made and that really people did not have, shouldn't have moved away from Love Canal and that it just cost a whole bunch of money and wasted a bunch of money and the whole thing was for naught.
		I'm sure you've seen those pieces.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a lot of misunderstanding because of what the Love Canal, because there were two Love Canals, what the Love Canal is and what the Love Canal is not.
		You see, in 1978, there was an evacuation of the 238 homes that were closest to this leaking chemicals.
		Two years later, after a lot of protest, there was an evacuation of people who lived somewhat farther away and were not, In many cases, really in the type of danger those original inhabitants were, but were moved for really political and psychological, emotional reasons.
		And it's that outer zone that parts of which they're thinking of re-inhabiting or are re-inhabiting and making it seem like Love Canal was a lot of hot air, but it wasn't.
		It was toxic air.
		And those homes closest to Love Canal could never be re-inhabited because they don't exist.
		They've been bulldozed over and dumped in a special landfill.
		So there's a lot of misunderstanding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could a person live at ground zero today or is it still basically uninhabitable?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely not.
		There's a huge fence that makes that a zone of contamination for good.
		You couldn't even enter it walking down the street.
		You'd have to scale the fence and go into this large mound of clay.
		A lot of the homes that I initially investigated are now under this mound of clay that protects it from rainfall and therefore has stopped leaking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How was it discovered?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, there had been reports for a couple years about PCBs.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's a type of chlorinated chemical with rather poisonous seeping into some pumps, into cellars, in basements, ringing this site.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know PCB is used in transformers, electrical transformers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It used to be.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		It's a coolant.
		That's right.
		And also used in the manufacture of, was used in the manufacturer of certain plastics and so forth.
		Very similar to DDT as far as a family of chemicals.
		And then in 1978, there was a memo that I got my hands on.
		And it showed that benzene, which is a human cancer-causing agent, was in the air of some of the homes near Love Canal.
		And then I went in there and I did kind of an informal health survey in May of 1978.
		And I was really non-plussed by how many people were claiming that their dogs were going bald, losing their fur, developing tumors allegedly, and all these ailments they were claiming from dizziness to epilepsy and breast cancer that seemed to afflict them once they moved near this place known as Love Canal, an old hydroelectric channel that has been filled up with, like I said, chlorinated material from years gone by.
		And I told the health department about this.
		The health department was planning, or Henceforward did plan to have a health survey of its own, which a couple months after that turned up rather hard scientific indications of miscarriages, high rates of miscarriage, and perhaps even birth deformities and some liver enzyme indicators among those living closest to the chemicals and issued an order of evacuation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So as you investigated, it was one of those things that sort of slowly became apparent and dawned, and the magnitude of it became apparent.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Once after Madison made everything snowballed, by August 2nd, 1978, people were streaming away from the site on orders of the state, and it became a major national story, the first toxic waste crisis in America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So that was Love Canal.
		And then you say you wrote about the mafia, and I've always been curious about that.
		We had a reporter in Las Vegas who did a lot of reporting about the mafia, ended up drowning in Hawaii, not necessarily under suspicious circumstances, but that leads me into the question, should you worry a little bit when you write about the mafia?
		Isn't that a worrisome thing to do?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I think it is if you don't have proper guidance.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I was writing about, specifically about a murder story that had occurred, involved a gangster from Newark, New Jersey, which is kind of the hub of mob activity in the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I live there, Michael, I know.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Branchbrook Park.
		And at any rate, he had got caught in this murder with several other people, or a couple other people, and turned into state witness in order to himself avoid jail and ended up ratting on over 70 of his former buddies, including a lot of heavy hitters.
		I mean, they used to call them stone-cold killers in the parlance.
		And so I kind of wrote the story, and I always was in consultation with county district attorney investigators, with high-level detectives, with FBI agents, with federal marshals, and I kind of knew where I could step and where I could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought for a moment when you said with the right consultation, perhaps, you know, you went to the equivalent of the Godfather and got his blessing to do the book.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		No, what I did is I took the other approach.
		I took the approach that the Godfather was a lot of hot air and that these people really are basically just scum of the earth.
		And I got on shows like Kathy Lee and Regis' show back when it was just a local New York show and said as much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And lived.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		And lived.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you ever tell me, tell me, did you ever get any dead horse heads in bed with you or even something lesser, letters or threats?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was a jewel thief from Miami who threatened to hurt me if I put his name in my book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That'll do.
		All right, so let's find out then, how in the world do we get from that sort of secular, serious investigative reporting to something like the final hour?
		How do you make that trip?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, in 19, I was born a Catholic.
		I fell away from the faith, I guess, around late in junior high school and high school, certainly in college, even though I went to a Jesuit university in New York City.
		And for years afterwards, I was in, I guess you'd call it, that fast track on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, and with no time, certainly, for Sunday Mass or anything of the sort, which was kind of considered superstition.
		But in 1983, in the middle of writing Vet Macia book, by the way, I had a series of experiences that to me indicated that there was actually a force of evil in the world.
		Not just, I used to think, I think a lot of us think of evil as a generic term, something that means negative, people who do what's not right, criminals and so forth, but to think in terms of actual evil force, a devil, a real evil, the devil.
		Yeah, and I started to have experiences indicating to me that it was a real force.
		And of course, I was close enough to it writing about it.
		And these experiences, including a rather dramatic dream I had, ended up turning me into a full-time Christian writer.
		Catholic?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You returned?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I returned to the church very quickly in 1983 after this dream I had, in which I saw an evil face.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
		All right, yeah, let's talk about that a little, oh, an evil face.
		So your dream, yeah, tell us about your dream.
		I guess we ought to understand what it is that made you turn this corner so dramatically.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, this is a part of really a series of events that occurred over several months.
		But one night I was coming back from socializing down in the, actually in the lower east village of Manhattan, and it was Friday night, single at the time, and I came home.
		Again, it was a fast-lane stuff, you know.
		And again, it was right towards the end of this mafia book I was writing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Drugs?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		No, I mean, I wasn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not that fast.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I may have had a couple drinks that night.
		I went to sleep and I woke up, oh, middle of the night.
		I didn't look at the clock, or at least I don't remember.
		It was probably the first time, around 3 o'clock in the morning.
		And I woke up because I had a very startling dream.
		I dreamt that I was on this, like a hospital gurney, and there were these luminous entities, for lack of better terminology, around me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		With their hands over me, as if they were like healing me or delivering me or something.
		And my feet were towards the door of my apartment.
		I lived on 90th and 3rd on a 12th floor of a luxury apartment building.
		And I had awakened because they had shown me this face materialized on my door.
		And it was this elongated face with a very pointy chin, stereotypical demonic face, you know, with a goatee, the classic sunken jowls and so forth staring at me.
		And it was a very living face, an etched face on my door.
		And it was the most terrifying thing I've ever seen in my life.
		It made anything like the mafia seem like kids' play.
		And I woke up, Art, and I paced around for a while.
		I went back to sleep, and the dream continued where it left off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's bad.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		And I asked one of the entities, again, who it was, and he said his name was Michael.
		And I associated them with being angels and showed me this face again, and I woke up again, and I was up for an hour just terrified.
		When I went to bed again, the dream continued where it left off.
		It was a three-parter.
		This time I was told to say, vanish.
		And I woke up.
		I remember I just, I was beside myself.
		And I think it was the very next day I went to see a sister of mine in Stanford, Connecticut.
		And my mother had been by there recently visiting.
		And she said, Ma left you something.
		I'm staring at it right now.
		I said, what's that?
		And she went upstairs in their condominium and came back down with a statue of the Archangel Michael.
		And that was kind of at the beginning of my conversion.
		I started to go into church again quick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		I can understand that.
		My gosh, what an experience.
		I'm recalling, Michael, again, I'm not Catholic, but the beginning of the genre of the movies was The Exorcist.
		No movie ever scared me as much as The Exorcist.
		And I guess it was because it involved the church, and it all seemed so very real.
		So I've got a question for you.
		Do those things go on?
unidentified		Yes.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but with greater frequency than the movie indicates and with better success.
		There are definitely cases of, there are many, many thousands of cases of demonic possession.
		But most of the cases, of course, are not quite as dramatic as that.
		But there are cases.
		I have talked to priests, including one from Los Angeles area, who have been involved in exorcisms that are literally, literally as dramatic as some of the parts of the movie.
		Not that their head twists around in the back, and not that there's pea soup flying across your movie screen, but certainly physical manifestations of levitation and just tremendously, in some cases, gruesome phenomenon.
unidentified		That occurs.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		But like I said, they get rid of these spirits, whereas the movie kind of displayed the devil as more powerful than the force of good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or he made a jump and lived at the end.
		Do you think that's what you saw in your dream?
		Was it a manifestation of evil of the devil or of yourself or the evil within you?
unidentified		Or what was it?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		A combination.
		I think it was showing me literally that the devil was at my door.
		That, you know, when you brush against evil, it leaves something behind.
		And all of us fool around with evil forces when we basically, I don't want to be preachy, that's for others to do, but I'm not very good at it.
		But that's what happens when we sin.
		We start to, and we do this as a society, too.
		You can become possessed as a society.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We begin to invite them in.
		Listen, we've got a break right here.
		We'll be right back to you, Michael.
		Michael Brown is my guest.
		more in a moment.
		Once again, from Albany, New York.
		Here's Michael Brown back again.
		Michael, hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Why?
		How do you know, if I were to ask you what you saw, how do you know it was real?
		How do you know it wasn't just, as they say, a bit of undigested baloney or something?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, it could be.
		I just never had a three-part dream before and haven't had one since.
		I guess you had to be there.
		It was a feeling that was, you know, right to the quick.
		I mean, it was right to the heart.
		You had no doubt you were encountering something that was extremely unusual and certainly wasn't your standard dream.
		And that was, as I said, I don't know.
		I mean, you could say it was a subconscious, but that was one in a series of, quite frankly, many other events that began to occur indicating to me that all of this talk about poltergeist phenomena, and I had done research earlier as a journalist writing for the Atlantic Monthly and other publications,
		and as a newspaper reporter, I had done some investigating into people who claimed haunted houses and experiments with parapsychology and all of that other junk and so forth.
		You know, I think that all of this tied in, that when you really look at things, there's a dimension outside of the body, and you better be careful what you fool around with because it can bring something to your door.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I do a program on that kind of thing, Michael.
		It's called Dreamland, and it deals with UFOs, and it deals with life after death.
		If there is such thing, it explores those possibilities, and occasionally, of course, it moves into those realms.
		We talk to a lot of people like Dr. Moody and others who believe, well, I'm sure you're well aware of what they believe, and I take it that your view of that sort of thing is negative.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, not all of it.
		I mean, for instance, you take the near-death experiences that you just alluded to without relating to any one researcher.
		I think there are some cases that are extremely interesting and very valid and very uplifting and very true.
		We have to be careful, Art.
		I mean, I know parapsychology inside out.
		I mean, I was to Mine Science Foundation.
		I interviewed J.B. Ryan, who coined the expression ESP.
		I mean, I used to investigate scientific experiments with this stuff and wrote a book about it.
		And I understand that a lot of it is valid, but a lot of it can get into occultism.
		And that degenerates very quickly into New Age and witchcraft and all of these other things that you have to be very careful about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll get to that.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		This is the end of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is the best evidence that there really, really is a God?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would you say?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, geez, to me, there's so much evidence.
		I guess life itself is the best indication to me.
		I mean, to think that all of this organization came out of chaos is ridiculous.
		I mean, what are the odds that just a massive water and soil would produce the high-level organisms that we see all around us and that we are ourselves?
		Like I said, I did a book called A Search for Eve, which was on these theories of evolution.
		I went to Africa.
		I went to cave sites in Israel.
		I went to DNA laboratories in Berkeley out in Earnecula Woods and also out to Hawaii looking at all this evidence.
		And what I found, really, Art, is that scientists have no idea what happened or how this could happen.
		They may pretend in some of these textbooks that they understand evolution, but they really don't.
		And so I think that the miracle of life itself is the best evidence of God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long do you think we've been on Earth?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Man, that is?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if you believe in their dating techniques, radiocarbon dating and thermoluminescence, I mean, I guess you could argue that modern man, anatomically modern man, has been around for 100,000 to 200,000 years and in kind of an eight-man form for hundreds of thousands of years previous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're an investigative journalist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that generally, or do you believe that man has only been here, say, 6,000 years?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I don't know about the 6,000-year figure.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I think that was devised by a clergyman back several centuries ago in England.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, a lot of people cling to it, Michael.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I know they do, and I wouldn't cling to any dates, but that goes for any realm.
		I don't believe too much in radiocarbon dating anymore.
		I saw a case, I went to interview Richard Leakey, who's probably the foremost fossil hunter in history, and indeed one of the major scientists on the face of the planet Earth.
		And he had a famous discovery called Skull 1470 that made the cover of Time magazine.
		And then a short while later, he said, oops, we were off by a few hundred thousand years or so.
		And, of course, that didn't make the cover of Time magazine.
		But I'm very skeptical when they try to say something is a million years old or 200,000 years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think it would be easier or is it as easy to accept that there is a God as it is that there is a devil?
		Are you convinced?
		Now I know what you saw on your door.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		God is more subtle than the devil is.
		The devil kind of comes crashing around.
		I think all we have to do is look around us right now in American society to see the footprints of old Slewfoot.
		I mean, not to be facetious about this, but there are a lot of manifestations right now.
		You turn on MTV and it's like peering into a witch's coven.
		I mean, there's a Lusatanic symbology throughout our musical culture right now and witchcraft rights and there's a lot of stuff going on everywhere, whether It's the crime rate, the criminal justice system, which is turning out to be very interesting right now, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		And just a lot of bizarre events going on that I think are leading up to some type of high-point event.
		I think that we're seeing a rise in societal manifestations of actual metaphysical evil.
		I don't want to use too many polyphyllic words here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, what does the final hour mean?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		The final hour talks about the final hour of our era.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		And what I say in the book, I report on various prophecies from around the world, a lot of them coming from the Catholic realm, including apparitions and alleged apparitions of the Virgin Mary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		That say that we're approaching, as I said, some type of major series of events that are going to break down or purify us, break down this evil, purify us from this evil, and lead us into some type of major reawakening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I think that we do need a wake-up call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are these the final days?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		The final days to me implies the end of the world or the end of the book of Revelation.
		And also this.
		I think that we're going through parts of the book of Revelation, but I never would say that we're approaching the end of the world.
		We're approaching the end of an era, and therefore it is the later days of an era.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You wrote, during the past century, and especially the last 10 years, we on Earth have been experiencing a major supernatural episode.
		Now, give me an example of what you mean, the apparitions, the Virgin Mary.
		Is it bigger than that?
		Last night, for example, on this program, Michael, we had caller after caller from New Orleans, Louisiana, where crime is so far out of control.
		They had over 420 murders last year.
		It's a fairly small city as they go.
		The police department has just got corruption all the way through it.
		They're trying to do something about that.
		We've got kids killing kids.
		Seven-year-olds, 11-year-olds throwing seven-year-olds out of windows.
		I watched a black guy look into a television screen the other day and say, look, you know, I don't care about my own life, and I don't give a damn whether I live or die.
		I'm already resigned to the fact that I'm going to die, so if you ask me what I think about your life, you can only imagine.
unidentified		Sure.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		And, of course, Norway Lynn is also a great center of voodoo.
		These manifestations, I even look at things like what we're seeing with the legal system in the O.J. Simpson case.
		That sounds nearly trite, but it's not trite.
		It's a very major thing going on right now.
		We're starting to see just how wayward our society has become.
		And I think, quite frankly, that when people say, well, what are these prophecies about?
		What's going to come?
		I say that, first of all, they're starting to materialize before our eyes.
		We are already seeing the precursors of events that will probably occur.
		And I think California right now is the center of this activity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		As far as actual warnings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I had on the show not long ago Michael Scallion, Gordon Michael Scallion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure you know of him.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I've heard of him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've heard of him.
		He predicts a series of earthquakes this year, Michael, that will culminate with some nine-point earthquakes.
		Palm Springs, California, going on up the coast toward Seattle and so forth.
		And, I mean, tremendous, gigantic earth changes.
		He may have even been on the Ancient Prophecies program.
		I believe he may have been.
		And there are so many prophets predicting the same sort of thing.
		You know, California breaks off and falls off and the whole thing.
		How do you react to that sort of prophecy?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Something is happening in California.
		Los Angeles since 1992 has only gone at the most six months without being declared a disaster area.
		You've had, of course, floods and you've had fires and you've had riots and you've had earthquakes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		And if you look, matter of fact, if you look at the ten most costly disasters in American history, in all of American history, going back to the Great Chicago Fire or the 1906 San Francisco earthquake or whatever you want to consider,
		and adjusting for inflation and change in value of the dollar, of the top 10 worst disasters in American history monetarily, six or seven, might be seven now in light of the recent flooding, of these disasters, of these ten disasters have occurred since 1989 and four or five since 1992.
		Something seems to be afoot and a lot of the activity is in California.
		And what I see is that this is building momentum and building momentum until we're going to have perhaps one of these major earthquakes or a major storm of unprecedented proportion, whether in California or on the East Coast here or wherever.
		You know, I even look at this earthquake in Kobe, Japan.
		The name Kobe means the doorway of God in Japan there where 5,000 were killed.
		And you start to wonder, you know, is God trying to tap us on his shoulder before stronger medicine?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a very good question.
		And I must say that a lot of us who are not gifted prophets still feel something.
		And there are a lot of people out in the audience who have this general sense of unease that something big is coming soon.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I see that everywhere.
		We see that.
		I do a lot of research cross-denominationally, not just the Catholic realm, but also the Protestant realm.
		And I've interviewed Jews, and I've interviewed all kinds of different people.
		And there is a common thread.
		There is this feeling, this unsettled feeling, that something is going to give soon or a series of events are going to give soon.
		A lot of us are kind of waiting perhaps a little bit too obsessively about one major event like an asteroid or the big one in California or a tidal wave somewhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But something.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Something.
		But I think that we're going to see a lot of regional events of perhaps unprecedented proportion in the coming years and decades, all leading up to some type of high-point event.
		And we can discuss that later if you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
		A lot of the prophets I talk to, again, and I talk to many of them, seem to suggest that prophecy is not a done deal.
		Scallion said it, others have said it, that there are many possible courses or roads that we could, or realities or dimensions, or however you want to phrase it, that we can move down and that we don't have to move down the one toward the big disaster.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
		We believe that from the Catholic perspective also.
		See, we're told that.
		Now, I know that there are a lot of non-Catholics who have all kinds of misgivings about apparitions that we claim come from the Virgin Mary.
		And I understand some of their complaints and considerations and so forth.
		But I've been to a lot of these places from, like you said, the former Soviet Union to Majigoria to South America.
		And at some of these places, the Virgin Mary gives secrets that seem to pertain to future events.
		And sometimes she directly prophesies.
		And this is what she says.
		This is exactly what she says, that these are events that will come if we continue what we're doing now.
		There's always that if.
		They're conditional prophecies.
		They can be changed, just like in the Bible, prophecies could be changed.
		When Jonah warned Nineveh, it was if Nineveh did not repent, it would be destroyed.
		And Nineveh, at least initially did repent, wasn't destroyed.
		I think we're at the same place right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, although as I look at our present direction, I see no change of course yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It looks like we're headed straight down the highway to doom.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		And more so Europe and other parts of the world even than the United States.
		But it's really becoming flagrant here.
		And we better shift course or I think the Lord is going to shift course for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You also wrote, whether you're a believer or a disbeliever, Catholic or Protestant, Gentile or Jew, you're about to enter a series of unearthly events, call them alleged events, unlike any reported in 2,000 years.
		Now, there's always a lot of jitters, I guess, when centuries turn the page.
		And, you know, I forget what they call it, millennium madness, I think.
		So how much of what's going on right now do you think is that?
		How much is really a problem headed toward 2000 here?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, a lot of it is millennial madness.
		A lot of it is psychological.
		I don't associate it with the year 2000 so much as a change of era that could occur after the year 2000 or before.
		It could occur tomorrow for all we know.
		We had to be careful because these are human timeframes and things don't work like that in the supernatural.
		If you hear a prophecy that gives specific dates, usually it turns out to be a joke, something wrong, kind of a deception.
		And so I don't put too much stock in the year 2000, but I do believe that in the next few years or few decades, we are really going to see some enormous events unless things change very rapidly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You actually went to the physical locations and investigated some of these events regarding the Virgin Mary that the rest of us, Michael, have only heard rumors and talk and stories about.
unidentified		Was it real?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Magigoria in former Yugoslavia is real.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		And I've been there four times now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How can you say that?
		Why do you say that?
		What did you see that convinced you?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've got to say, too, when I first arrived at this place where it said the Virgin Mary has been appearing to six young people since 1981, since June of 81, I thought it was a case of collective hysteria for the first few hours I was there.
		Matter of fact, I was disgusted at myself for flying all that way.
		But before I left five or six days later, it was the most incredible experience of my life.
		And it's a feeling of peace there.
		You feel like you're not on the planet Earth.
		It's somewhere between here and heaven.
		This tranquility, the power of God.
		I saw the sun do stuff that I didn't think the sun could do.
		I realized this is kind of a supernatural phenomenon because the sun certainly couldn't have been doing this or else everybody on earth would have seen it.
		But it was throwing off colors and pulsing and there was a disk that moved in front of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A disk?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Like a disk that, not a UFO or anything, but just something that seemed to be shielding the sunlight so you could stare at the sun for 10 minutes without blinking.
		And without seeing sunspots.
		And instead of sunspots, at one point in association with Magigoria, I saw these reddish, purplish hearts floating across my field of vision.
		And just the, I saw other aerial phenomena while I was there, not UFOs, but rather more like the signs and wonders described in the New Testament.
		And I think really the most impressive thing was just this feeling in your heart of peace.
		Here you are in the stony hinterlands of Yugoslavia with nothing around, with no pools, with no TV, with no air conditioning, a lot of times with no heat if you're there during the cold months, and you didn't want to leave.
		And a peasant village that's right out of pre-World War II.
		And I mean, where people still used horse and buggy or horses to cart around their fire with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you ask yourself, did I really see this or did I see what I wanted to see?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you answer it?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, by going back again, I guess.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		And that's what I did Three other times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Three other times.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Three other times.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We're here at the top of the hour, so rest.
		We've got several minutes.
		Just relax, and we'll get back to you in a moment, Michael.
		Michael Brown is my guest, author of the final hour.
		And yes, we'll ask him about UFOs and such.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		It absolutely is.
		I might add celebrating now 150 affiliates for this particular radio program.
		That's 100 and actually 151.
		And for Dreamland, the century mark.
		100 affiliates now for Dreamland.
		Good morning, everybody.
		If you are just joining us at this hour, we are discussing the final hour.
		Not of this program, but of mankind, I guess.
		The final hour.
		My guest is Michael Brown.
		He is a Catholic.
		He was a secular investigative journalist.
		He broke the Love Canal story.
		He wrote a book on the mafia.
		He's done lots and lots of secular journalistic work.
		And now he's writing books and reporting on spiritual events that are going on all over the world, particularly in the last and next decades.
		It is a fascinating subject, certainly.
		And I've got a fax here with regard to witchcraft.
		All right, back now to Michael in Albany, New York.
		Michael, are you there?
unidentified		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's a fact.
		And by the way, anybody wanting to send in a question for Michael, my fax number is area code 702-727-8499.
		702-727-8499.
		Art, in the immortal words of Marsha Clark, I object.
		You have an interesting guest.
		I'm looking forward to hearing the rest of what he has to say, but he was a rather confused person about witches.
		Speaking as a practitioner of modern witchcraft, Wicca, witches do not worship Satan.
		Satan is a Christian heresy and very much part of the Christian theology.
		Wicca is not a Christian religion, and to us, Satan is simply a fictional character from someone else's literature.
		For a witch to worship Satan or use satanic symbols makes as much sense as would you worshiping Captain Marvel, Superman, or the incredible Hulk.
		That's Paul down in Phoenix.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		You want me to respond to that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Respond to any way you want.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I would really draw a differentiation between Hulker, a comic strip character, and this tremendously nefarious force who is a real force in the world and in our lives, and also can cause a lot of supernatural phenomena.
		With witches, most people practicing witchcraft are not evil people, but I believe that, and excuse me for sounding pretentious when I refer to things like this as I did in the previous half hour, but it's a deception, and that's where the confusion is.
		You see, witchcraft Does relate to demonic activity.
		It goes back to ancient Babylon.
		It goes back to Neanderthal times in Europe when they had pantheism and worship of horned-headed creatures and so forth, representations on old cave walls, or at least relics soon after the Croman Yong man, I should say, not Neanderthal.
		And then it came through history, through ancient Babylon, through these strange gods and goddesses, and it came through Egypt and the time of the pyramids, and it came through the secret societies of Europe, and then the witchcraft in Germany, the secret societies that took a foothold even here in America.
		And now we call it witchcraft and the New Age movement or the occult and so forth.
		And I believe that a lot of it taps into a real supernatural force, but it's a force from the dark side that causes tremendous spiritual blindness so that they don't see the devil, so that they don't see the working of actual demonic entities.
		And I strongly suggest that they get away from that quick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		While we're on the subject of getting away from it quick, one thing did once scare me.
		Somebody had delivered to me anonymously an old, even ancient, Michael Ouija board.
		When I used to work in Las Vegas, up at the radio station, it was delivered to me.
		And it looked a zillion years old, and I guess it was.
		And some strange things happened associated with that Ouija board, and I didn't even play with the damn thing.
		What do you have to say about Ouija boards?
		Are they an invitation to the dark side?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's like taking a bullhorn to downtown New York City, to Times Square, and saying, hi out there, anyone who wants to come into my parlor is welcome.
		I mean, would you do that?
		You know, that's what you're doing in a spiritual realm with a Ouija board.
		You're saying, whoever wants to come through, come on in.
		And guess who's going to come in first?
		You have to be careful with that, with tarot cards, with astrology and so forth, because these are all things that are mentioned, even biblically, as being extremely dangerous and putting you in touch with wizards and witches and the dark side.
		And again, I don't want to insult any of your listenership, but you have to be very careful with this stuff.
		I've seen phenomena with the Ouija board.
		I used to investigate that type of thing to see if there was anything behind it.
		I've been in the rooms when they turn stone cold all of a sudden and everyone gets prickly skin and it's a big thrill and everything and these messages come through the board.
		But who's sending these messages?
		What are the fruits?
		What happens to people who fool around with this stuff?
		And the answer is that often they get into a lot of trouble.
		And you know, if you want to look at actual cases of possession, you'll be amazed how many of those cases started out with tarot cards or Ouija boards.
		You'll be amazed because, again, you're inviting something in that you don't understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Another thing I don't understand and I've struggled to understand, and I've done shows on it for years, UFOs.
		I finally saw one myself, Michael.
		I had a serious, serious experience.
		Close in, something just floated above me, a big triangular craft of some kind.
		I won't go into all the details, but it scared the hell out of me.
		And it was either technology that we have developed and surely know nothing about, or it was from somewhere else.
		I don't know.
		I don't know what it was.
		To this day, I don't know what I saw.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		So many people, of course, you know, as you know, millions of people have had these experiences.
		And I want to start out by saying that I hope I have an open mind in some regards, and I don't discount the possibility that a small percentage of these are extraterrestrial.
		But I'll say that I've seen tremendous indication that it's more of a spiritual phenomena than a physical phenomena.
		In other words, something from another dimension as opposed to another planet.
		And we have to, once again, we have to be careful of a dark side.
		We're told in the Bible that Satan will send lying wonders in the air.
		Wonders in the air we're warned about biblically as well as through some of these Marian prophecies.
		And we look, I think that there was one study that indicates as many as 8 million Americans are claiming sometime in their lives to have been abducted by radonauts.
		That's right.
		And I think if you look at the descriptions, that they're classic, it's classic demonology.
		These are entities that have the slanted eyes.
		They're little, they're mean looking.
		They leave bad effects.
		They leave bad odors a lot of times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		True.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		And they come through, they can go through the wall.
		They haunt you the rest of your lives.
		It's not like a craft landing from some other planetary system and visiting you once, taking a sample, and then heading back for home.
		But rather, it's an ongoing spiritual phenomenon.
		And therefore, I think that it's part of this supernatural episode.
		I think that we are seeing art.
		Actual manifestation and materialization of forces of good and evil in direct combat.
		And we're on that battleground.
		We're in the middle of that crossfire right now.
		And that's why there's a tremendous interest right now among the American people in this phenomenon because they're seeing it.
		79% of the American people believe in miracles, according to the Gallup survey last December.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		And that's because they are seeing things like this.
		Some people are seeing UFOs like you did.
		Some people are going to Majiguria like I did.
		Some people are having experiences with angels.
		Other people are having dreams or are noticing that weird things happen with Ouija boards.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, Michael, yours was clearly spiritual.
		Mine was such a gray area.
		I saw a craft, something that almost could not have been of this earth.
		And so I'm left wondering out in the middle of nowhere what it was, But your experience was kind of spiritual and seemed very clear.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		And I've run into people, including a brother of mine who saw this craft pretty low in the sky, not too much higher than a house.
		Go over and said it was enormous one time years ago.
		And again, you think, gee, it seems mechanical, doesn't it?
		But you don't know what this type of phenomena, again, maybe it was.
		How do I know what you saw?
		How do I know?
		I know from the type of person you are that you saw something.
		But, you know, I couldn't pretend to know and explain exactly what it is you saw or what a lot of people have seen.
		But I do know that the descriptions of quite a few of these cases reeks of spiritual phenomena.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You investigated.
		I know you investigated telekinesis, didn't you?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That phenomenon.
		Is it real?
		I mean, are people able to move things or affect material things with their mind?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's certainly able.
		Yeah, I believe the answer is, the short answer is yes.
		And the long answer, and I won't make it that long, is that I've been to laboratories where they did experiments with what they call random event generators and found out that people could divert the randomness of these machines against odds up to, I think it was 10 billion to one against chance.
		These atomic type machines or machines run on thermal noise.
		So there's a lot of evidence for that.
		But once again, you've got to be careful because I used to think of it as just a scientific pursuit, another power of the mind, some kind of electrical dynamic coming from the brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		But it often isn't.
		Often, again, often you've got to be careful because it can come from the dark side with a certain entity playing games with us.
		So just like games are played with UFOs and Ouija boards and everything else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't there a danger, Michael, that coming from the Christian perspective, you would tend to perhaps miss something that is real and has a scientific explanation, and that you would miss it and tend to label it from the dark side?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, I think that can happen.
		I think that anyone from any perspective is, none of us have the whole picture, and we are narrow in our own ways, and I probably have done that in cases.
		But I'll tell you, Art, I mean, when you're talking about something like the Ouija board, I've been there.
		I've seen it.
		I know what happens with that.
		It's not good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For example, if extraterrestrials, or what some would think as extraterrestrials, were actually to ever land and the door opens up and the little green or gray guys, whatever they are, walk out, I'm convinced that enough Christians in this country would be absolutely convinced they were devils, that they'd be filled full of lead and they'd never make it to the bottom of the ramp.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, that might be.
		Again, I think I said that I don't discount the possibility of life on other planets.
		In fact, it seems to me nearly absurd that Earth would be the only inhabited planet.
		But I hasten to add that when you have 8 million people claiming these experiences that...
		Something's happening, but I don't think it's from outer space.
		Because I think that there would be, if it was extraterrestrial and it affected 8 million people, we would have seen a lot more of it.
		In other words, we would have had a lot more physical evidence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are many people predicting that there will be many beings, many craft, and many people talk about 1995, believe it or not, and the years between now and the year 2000 as having, I'm sure you've heard these rumors.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I certainly have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One more very important thing I want to ask you about.
		I've had a zillion calls here about events going on in California, Oregon, up the coast, people picking up hitchhikers.
		Oh, yeah.
		And you know where I'm going with this, of course.
		I wrote about it.
		And there's something about the hitchhiker saying the horns are about to blow or whatever.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Gabriel's trumpet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		That's why I call my new book, The Trumpet of Gabriel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Because I looked at that hitchhiker phenomenon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what do you conclude?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I don't.
		I don't know what is going on.
		now you it's a classic case whether it's California or the state of Maine or all across the country people are claiming that Oh.
		You know, and claimed to have picked up the hitchhiker who, you know, says Gabriel, the trumpet is approaching Gabriel's lip or Gabriel is lifting a trumpet to his lip or Christ is coming soon or whatever.
		And then, as you know, disappears from the back seat of a car.
		And we'll have to remember that this type of hitchhiker phenomenon has been reported since the 1880s in this country.
		It wasn't cars back then, it was the horse and carriage.
		But I can't fathom it.
		I don't know where it's coming from, but I do know that it's too widespread to be nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you interview people, how do you judge or try to judge their credibility?
		I mean, as they tell you a story, did these people seem credible to you?
		Did they seem kind of off the edge a little bit, religious fanatics?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		You know, I'm sure you have listeners who consider me a religious fanatic.
		And in fact, 10 years ago or 12 years ago, I would have considered myself, looking at myself now, a religious fanatic.
		So I can understand certainly where they're coming from.
		And there are, there certainly are people in any walk of life who go off the edge or who believe everything and anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it gets to be sometimes the, Those people with the hitchhikers?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Not the ones I interviewed.
		No.
		But, you know, I can't speak for the others who are claiming this.
		Often, it seems like a rehashed myth.
		In other words, often you can't get to the base of the rumor of these hitchhikers because They're really just inaccurately reporting a story they heard third hand from somebody who also heard it thirdhand.
		So it's often just a rumor.
		But there have been some cases that I believe are legitimate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Michael, hold on.
		We'll get back to you in just a moment.
		I'm about to open up the telephone lines.
		If you would like to ask Michael a question, come now.
		First time callers at area code 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		The wildcard direct dial lines, area code 702-727-1295.
		702-727-1295.
		Toll-free west of the Rockies.
		It's 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
unidentified		Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		That's 702-727-1295.
		First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here again, I am.
		Here's a facts just got in for Michael Brown, and I guess myself message.
		I was asleep at 2 a.m. when your show starts here in Ohio, and in a dream, I was sitting next to you, and you were reading Michael Brown's book to me.
		My wife and mother were also in the room.
		You took a break from your reading.
		You gave me the book so I could look it over.
		The book was very old and shaped like a frame, like a picture frame, with small print on aged paper with a hollow center area.
		In the center area, there was an old doll and loose rose petals.
		I woke up with a start, and there you were, introducing Michael Brown.
		And Michael Brown is my guest, and my Faxer wants to know if he interprets dreams.
		And actually, in view of how he got started on this journey, that's probably a pretty good question and one we will pose with your calls in just a moment.
		Dreams.
		Dreams were a big subject in the O.J. Simpson trial.
		They came up, in fact, with a witness again the other day, Michael.
		And your journey, the present forum, was launched with a dream.
		Do you interpret dreams, or have you attempted to have yours interpreted?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I don't.
		I'm mainly confused by them.
		I don't pretend to have a lot of answers that I wish I did have.
		I will say that the rose petals, there have been cases like in the Philippines where people have claimed to see the Virgin Mary and thousands of people claim to have seen rose petals that fell to the ground with images on them of Jesus or Mary and kind of Christian symbols.
		So I don't know if that's relevant at all, but I don't try to interpret dreams because it's just never worked for me and it's something that I don't feel comfortable with.
unidentified		This is the end of side one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please leave the cassette exactly where it is.
		Let's launch into the world of telephones here.
		See what we've got.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Brown.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Eugene, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Eugene, Oregon, all right.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Michael, I wondered if you'd ever considered that my own belief is that we create our own reality.
		And my own personal belief is that evil doesn't really exist except in our minds.
		And like people that you meet, we're all capable of what we would consider evil acts, but we're innately good.
		There's nothing innately evil about us as people.
		And I believe the same is probably true of other spiritual entities.
		I've had experiences and out-of-body experiences, and I've had experiences that scared the heck out of me.
		With a positive attitude, I was always able to overcome and go move beyond.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, it's a good question.
		Let's frame it this way.
		Evil, each one of us with individual evil possibilities within versus real evil.
		And you are convinced, Michael, there is real evil.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I am, and I think there are too many coincidences.
		Let's start with the word evil.
		What does it spell backwards?
		It spells the word liz backwards.
		And I think that that's really a good definition of what evil is.
		It twists things around, turns them backwards.
		I think there's too much consistency, whether it's with Charles Manson and all of the symbols associated with him or going back centuries before to witches in Germany, or like I said, centuries before that to pagan times and in old Egypt.
		Consistent symbols like the swastika that come through old Babylon right to the Nazis and the current-day skinheads who do a lot of evil deeds.
		I think that there's just too much consistency to say, oh, it's an artifact of our imagination.
		It's just a convenient way of explaining negativity and that all we need is a positive frame of mind.
		I think your caller is right that a positive way of looking at things can transcend a negative experience.
		We call positive thinking faith.
		And I think with faith, you can get above that.
		And I don't think that we should overly dwell on evil, but you do have to expose certain problems in order to find a remedy.
		And I think that saying that we construct our own reality, well, I mean, it's true to a certain extent.
		Through the way you act in life, you create your own reality.
		But I think you can go a little bit too far with that.
		There are certain things that exist, they're time-honored.
		Whether or not they're spoken of In Moses' time or in our own time, there are tremendous similarities in the spiritual realm.
		And I'm telling you right now that if the caller could have seen some of the things I have investigated, I don't think he'd have any doubt about the existence of an actual metaphysical force.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if that's true, then you mentioned Charlie Manson, and I've always thought he, too, when you look at him, that man is evil.
		He's the embodiment of evil.
		There's no question about it.
		But then should there not be a defense in the American justice system that basically says the devil made me do it?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		I mean, I'll say this, that a lot of times when the devil's involved or demons, because it's not just one...
		There's nearly 6 billion people on this planet.
		What are my chances of being the next Linda Blair?
		I wasn't really, you know, I thought it was just kind of a freakish spirit.
		But in fact, there's not just one spirit.
		There are millions of forces out there.
		And when you tap into those through sin, when you draw them to you because of how you're conducting your life, whether it's drugs, whether it's certain types of sexual activity, whether it's occultism, whatever it is, when you draw these forces into your life, you're going to draw with them some of this negative supernatural phenomena, and then you have to shake it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Michael, as a matter of interest, how many times or how many cases of possession have there ever been of people who are not believers?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that there's a lot of cases of that.
		Whether they're strict atheists or not, I don't know.
		I think you could argue that a guy like Hitler was possessed.
		I think just calling him a politically evil person or a negative person who created his own reality, well, I mean, it's true to a certain extent.
		But if you look at the Nazis, you will find tremendous occultism in the background of those Nazis.
		They were practitioners of witchcraft, of astrology, and things of this nature.
		So there's a running theme here that goes, I think, way beyond something that's just an artifact of our primitive imagination.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Brown.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Denver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Denver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And I used to live up in Jackson, Wyoming.
		And I ran into a hitchhiker.
		And I'm not a, I wouldn't call myself a use the term Bible sumper, but I'm not.
		But I picked up a gentleman one day north of Jackson.
		He had very Christ-like features as far as his hair and face.
		He was wearing a white shirt, tan pants, and sandals.
		And I gave him a ride up about five miles to the Jackson airport.
		He didn't tell me any gloom and doom or anything.
		He was very quiet.
		But as I let him out at the airport, I said, you know, do you have what you need for your, you know, you don't have any baggage?
		And he looked at me, and he had these really piercing blue eyes.
		And he said, I have everything I need right here.
		And in his hand, he's holding a Bible.
		And that was strange.
		I mean, I'm not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hitchhikers.
unidentified		All right, well, I certainly...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's one for you.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		And you hear that quite frequently, especially when they describe the eyes, of course.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		It sounds like the classic descriptions of a manifestation of an angel or something of that type.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Angels are real?
unidentified		Oh, I believe so, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've seen a lot of stories, Michael.
		They've had a lot of shows on about angels, guardian angels, that sort of thing.
		You believe in those?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I do.
		I believe they're all around, and I believe that that's the positive side of all this.
		You've got to be careful that it's not a deception, whether from the imagination or from another realm.
		But I believe that this whole explosion of people with angel experiences is another aspect of the supernatural episode in progress, this spiritual warfare.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'm going to tell you something, and I'm going to stick to my story here.
		Over the years, I've done programs with a fellow named John Lear.
		He is the son of Bill Lear, who invented the Lear jet.
		He is a ufologist.
		He studied UFOs for a long time, and he has come in recent years to the spiritual side of the question with regard to UFOs.
		And he thinks, in fact, that they may be demonic in nature.
		And he said to me something once that I've never shaken, Michael.
		He said that he had good information and believed that when the choice comes, when you die, when you pass over to the other side, you should not go toward the light.
		He said, the light is a trick.
		You should go toward the darkness.
		And I've never been able to shake that.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I still would feel a little more comfortable, I guess, with the light.
		If it's holy, I think what you should do is pray.
		There is so much phenomena going on that, you know, even these near-death experiences are fascinating, and I read them, and I think, like I said before, that a lot of them are valid, but others you have to be careful with because they start to get in the realm where they seem like some type of deception.
		So we have to be so careful in this realm.
		Some of the near-death experiences mimic the UFO experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, and then there's one other aspect that we haven't touched on yet with the near-death experiences.
		And they're not told, Michael.
		They're rarely told.
		But there are people who have near-death experiences that don't involve the light.
		They don't involve a good experience.
		In fact, just the opposite.
		They involve something very frightening, Michael.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's right.
		And what do they see?
		When they have these experiences in that tunnel, Instead of seeing an angel of light, they see demonic faces and beast-like claws heading towards them, and they usually come back and change their lives.
		Matter of fact, I just read a book that's out now about a woman who had an experience that seemed like very close to hell.
		So there are positive and negative experiences after life, just like there are during life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that a little like the experience you had with that dream?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, in the way of being a conversional experience, I would say yes.
		I felt that even though I wasn't involved in any evil in the way of, I was a reporter reporting on the mafia, and I had done some investigating, like I said, into psychic phenomena, which is now they call it New Age.
		Even though I wasn't involved in that stuff myself, I was close enough that I think that the situation was becoming dangerous for me on a spiritual scale.
		And I think that's why I talk about it now, even a dozen years later.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some of it was rubbing off on you?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was, again, I was getting too close for comfort.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		And I don't want to see other people go through the same turmoil that I had to go through to get out of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Brown.
		Good morning.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		You're on the air.
		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		I'm calling from Jacksonville, North Carolina.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Okay, go ahead.
unidentified		I had a question, actually, about the trumpets of Jericho or something like that.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Of Gabriel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gabriel, yes.
unidentified		Yes, that's it.
		What exactly is that?
		Can you explain what that is and the significance here of what that meant by, say, the Maker?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we absolutely will, sir.
		Listen on the air.
		Michael, there is a movie I've seen that I've recommended to people because it was such a shocker.
		Have you ever seen a movie called The Rapture?
		I have not.
		I, with some hesitation, because it's a shocker, I recommend it to you.
		Now, The Trumpets of Gabriel.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, biblically, whether it's in the book of Revelation or elsewhere, the trumpet is used to announce something.
		And, of course, Gabriel is the angel who announced the coming of Jesus to Mary.
		And is there a significance with an announcement of major events coming?
		I mean, all these alleged hitchhikers saying that Gabriel is bringing the trumpet to his lips, does that mean chastisement?
		Does that mean, like what you mentioned, with events coming in the world?
		A lot of people think that we're on the verge of some type of manifestation of Christ's power, some type of perhaps phenomenon that will bring people back.
		I don't know, but again, this hitchhiker phenomenon comes right from it.
		It's not related at all to Marian apparitions, and yet it's part of the supernatural episode.
		There's so much going on right now, and it's, and I don't pretend, and I hope I haven't come across pretentiously, because I don't pretend to have the answers.
		I'm just trying to observe and report, and to warn that something's coming down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something big is about to happen.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Something big is about to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And as in 2010, you wouldn't necessarily say it's something wonderful.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, at Medjagoy, the Virgin Mary gave these six visionaries nine or ten secrets, depending on some of them have ten secrets, some have nine.
		And these secrets pertain to events coming to the world, or at least some of the secrets do.
		And I interviewed one of the visionaries named Mediana who said that the first three secrets she was given have to do with events that will come as warnings to mankind along with some kind of great miracle.
		And she says that when the first secret unfolds, a lot of people will just, and a lot of the media will just explain it away as a natural event.
		It will be some type of, well, I take it to be, some type of disaster or catastrophe on a regional scale.
		And we'll hear about it, we'll see it, but everyone won't experience it at once.
		And then she says that another event will come, and this time it'll be a lot harder for the scientists and for the media to just approve.
		And then this third great miracle.
		And then later on, she says that the, especially the ninth and tenth secrets, have to do with very grave events for the world.
		And now, again, like you very astutely pointed out, a lot of these prophecies can be conditional.
		But these medical secrets seem to involve something of rather unprecedented proportion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I just know I feel it.
		I'm not a particularly religious person, I should tell you, Michael.
		I guess I'm agnostic, but I feel something, and a lot of other people in the audience feel something coming.
		And this seems to jive with what you're saying, jive with what Gordon Michael Scallion and others are saying.
		And as I listen to you talk about an event followed by another larger event, and recalling what Gordon Michael Scallion said, you're both walking down exactly the same path from different perspectives, and that sort of scares me a little.
		Let's get back to the phones.
		We've got so many calls here.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Brown.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		My name's Tom.
		I'm calling from Vancouver, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Mr. Brown, by the way, didn't you win a Politic Prize for some of your work?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		The Lincoln L work was nominated for the gold medal, and from my understanding, came in second, but they don't really have a formal second place.
unidentified		You can't horrify that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You should have mentioned that, Michael.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had no idea.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, being nominated and winning are two different things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would say it's a great honor and would have been worth mentioning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, Collar, anything else?
unidentified		Yeah, I read a lot of your work, Michael, and I think you're one of the foremost and best writers within the Marian movement.
		One of the sections in the book, and I think it might have been the final hour, maybe one of the other books, that has always Kind of bothered me was the references to communism getting its start really from an organized human demonic organization that bankrolled communism in Russia.
		Are you familiar with what I'm talking about?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the Illuminati.
unidentified		Okay, the Illuminati.
unidentified		And everything I've ever heard about this has never, I mean, I know of nothing factual that actually points to this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's ask.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think it can really prove it.
		Again, a lot of these things operate in a different, quite frankly, a different dimension.
		But there are organizations that have been very humanistic and, quite frankly, anti-Christian that are based in some of the ancient mystery religions, like the Egyptian stuff we mentioned earlier.
		And now they're considered just kind of like social clubs.
		But some movers and shakers in the banking world and government and so forth belong just for political purposes and yet seems tied into organizations that in the past have bankrolled people like Vladimir Lenin and of course the one who brought communism to full force in the Soviet Union.
		So I think there's something to it.
		Quite frankly, the one who wrote about this was Pat Robertson in a book called The New World Order.
		So I think there's something behind it, but I'm no expert at it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I want to ask you about the New World Order, and we haven't even touched on the Antichrist yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So hopefully I can dredge another hour from you.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great.
		All right, Michael, stay right where you are.
		We're headed toward the top of the hour.
		My guest is Michael Brown, his latest book, The Final Hour.
		And oh my, what it seems to say.
unidentified		We'll be back.
		You're listening to Coast to Coast A.M. Call
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		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is a great battle on Earth going on between good and evil.
		During the past century, my guest has written, and especially the last 10 years, we on Earth have been experiencing a major supernatural episode.
		My guest, Michael Brown, nominated, We Just Found Out for a Bulitzer, The Man Who Broke the Love Canal story, is here talking about the supernatural and what it means and what it means to us and why all of this is going on and what it's building toward.
		And we're going to get back to him in just a very few moments.
		It's going to be a caller-intensive hour.
		So get on the phone or the fax machine if you have a question.
		This may be a good way to launch into this hour.
		Dear Art, I'm a Christian with a very strong faith, but I've had odd experiences in the past few years and would like to ask Mr. Brown whether his investigations have discovered if there is any particular gemstones that are associated with Satan or any more associated with God.
		It seems strange, but I wear a large variety of gemstone jewelry, and certain ones make me feel anxious or depressed, while others give me an energetic, peaceful feeling.
		Some gemstone rings I wear on my left middle finger even seem to decrease the circulation.
		I'm not a flake, but I'm curious since I believe God made all things, including all the natural stones, which are set into jewelry.
		I would appreciate Michael Brown's view based on his research, Charlotte up in Portland.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Michael?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's press the button.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I really don't know anything about gemstones and all that, but it makes me a little bit wary because it gets into all of this crystal New Age type things, and I don't know.
		I mean, I guess I'm Christian enough that if I'm going to wear something, it's going to be a cross, a crucifix.
		But I really don't know.
		It's something that may make him feel anxious because it's tied into, some of it can be tied into the occult.
		Again, this gets back to ancient pagan practices.
		They call it New Age, but it's old age in a new bottle.
		It's just a rehashed occultism.
		And we have to be careful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A new label.
		All right.
		Let's, as much as we can, go to the phones.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Brown.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, my name is Darlene Miller, calling from New Orleans.
		Yes.
		Hi.
		First of all, I want to thank Ard Bell and, of course, his speaker, Michael Brown, because I think this subject is long overdue.
		You mentioned spiritual warfare, and that is exactly what is going on.
		Most people don't realize where this warfare is taking place, but the battlefield is in the mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would also say in New Orleans, you're on the front lines.
unidentified		Yes, exactly.
		I called into a talk show about a week ago, and when I mentioned that, a lot of callers behind me called in and were serious.
		And that's the deception.
		They have been deceived.
		And I like when Mr. Brown used that word, deceived, because that is exactly what is going on.
		As much as I don't want to sound like a preacher or what have you, I think the more you get into the Word of God, the more He reveals to you the spiritual things, those spiritual mysteries that you can begin to see spiritually the things that are happening, the things that are antichrist.
		You mentioned evil demons and devils.
		Well, there's only one devil, and he has a host of demons that he dispatches to do all of his demonic activities.
		Also, the angels are there to combat those.
		That's also a warfare going on as we speak.
		As we talk, there may be angels sitting right by you listening.
		And this big airway that you have, Ardel, it's great because he wants his word, God wants his word to get out to as many people as possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I hope that's what we're doing.
		She touched on the Antichrist, and I meant to ask you about that, Michael.
		The Antichrist, who is he?
		Is he around now?
		Is he due to be around soon?
		What's the deal?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll start off by being candid and saying I don't know.
		But I'll also add that, be frank about it, Art, there are a lot of prophecies coming from the Catholic realm that say that the answer may be yes.
		I mean, we don't know the legitimacy of many of these prophecies, but I have a chapter in the book about one woman in South America.
		I went to see her in Ecuador, who claims to be having apparitions of the Virgin Mary and claims, and I say claims, and I emphasize that because I don't know if it's true or not, but she claims that she was told as part of her message that the Antichrist is alive in the flesh and he's a young man.
		Now, this sounds preposterous to a lot of people.
		In fact, if you look historically, we've seen claims like this throughout history, especially in the 13th and the 14th centuries.
		But there certainly is a spirit of Antichrist rising right now.
		And one wonders if perhaps there is going to be a big shake-up.
		There is going to be this new world order, and there's going to be an attempt at one world religion, and then a lot of things are going to come down, both natural events, societal events like perhaps riots and chaos, and the spiritual events like perhaps some type of political leader who will, if not the Antichrist himself, will be some type of precursor.
		So there's just a lot of battling going on, and it's going to materialize more and more into the physical realm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Economically, politically, I would say the new world order is on the way, Michael.
		Anybody with any common sense looks at how things develop, and they develop first economically, and we are now hooked up economically, without any doubt, if not interdependent.
		And the political changes inevitably follow that.
		So we're headed toward a one-world something.
		Does it have to be, in your opinion, evil?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, it certainly doesn't have to be.
		Will it be?
		It's very dangerous.
		I've got to be honest with you.
		I'm wary a lot of times of the United Nations and what they propagate.
		Indeed.
		Because if you have anything that can control the world from a single source, you have to be wary that that single source is going to end up being evil.
		Throughout history, the world has never been united as one world.
		And you're right.
		There are movements in that direction.
		There are some frightening things when you look at what's happening in Brussels with unifying Europe, when you look at the trade agreements and so forth.
		I don't want to be paranoiic because I think we can start to be chicken little here sometimes.
		But on the other hand, look around you.
		What's going on here with this globalism?
		And what bothers me is that when you do have globalism, like United Nations Religious Program, they have a spiritual program that tries to unify religion.
		They always try to unify it under pagan belief system, and there's a real anti-Christian bent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
		You've traveled to Medjugoya three times, you said, and around the world four times and checked out people who have seen these apparitions.
		And I'm curious, since you've been close by, have you ever seen one yourself?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I have.
		I've never seen an apparition.
		I've seen manifestations of the Virgin Mary in Venezuela.
		Tell about that one second.
		But I'd like to add that some of my most profound experiences were in the former Soviet Union.
unidentified		Oh.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Way in the hinterlands.
		I mean, in peasant villages back before the fall of communism.
		Villages that don't have telephones, don't have radio, don't have newspapers, and yet in village after village, widely separated remote villages, they were all reporting phenomena back in 1987 with the Virgin Mary and with visions of Jesus that seemed to portend some major event,
		which perhaps ended up being the fall of communism, and some unsettling prophecies about a great future war that may well involve the Soviet Union and China.
		I'm very concerned about the former republics of the Soviet Union.
		I'm very concerned about the Islamic element there.
		I'm very concerned even about Turkey, which isn't part of the Soviet Union, but can cause a lot of Islamic unrest in the Soviet Union and in China.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know about the riots now going on.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		When I saw that recently, I said, watch out, because I've been wondering about Turkey for years now.
		And we have to be very wary of what could happen with these former republics of the Soviet Union.
		Because when the Virgin Mary came to Medjugoria, it was in Yugoslavia.
		And in 1981, she came saying, peace, have peace, because if you don't, there's going to be, she implied a hideous conflict.
		And at the time, no one paid attention because Yugoslavia looked like it was going to make the easiest transition to democracy and capitalism.
		And right now we know what happened.
		It degenerated into a hideous conflict.
		Well, you have the same ethnic mix in the former republics of the Soviet Union, the same ethnic hostilities, but on a much greater level.
		And so I'm especially interested in the fact that all of these apparitions in the Soviet Union began on the first anniversary of Chernobyl.
		And I'm also interested in the fact, and this is a coincidence, that the word Chernobyl is a Ukrainian word for a bitter herb called, that we would translate as being wormwood.
		And if you look in the book of Revelation, wormwood has a lot of implications.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it does.
		Wow.
		Again, what is striking to me, and you can't appreciate this because you did not, I had to send you the interview I had with Gordon Michael Scallion.
		You two are traveling down exactly the same roads, giving exactly the same warnings.
		It's just that you're coming from a Christian perspective, and he was coming from pure prophecy, if you will.
		Not connected, at least in his mind.
		Well, maybe it was.
		You two, though, are going down such a similar road that it's frightening.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Brown.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, this is Janae in Santa Rosa, California, KSRO.
		Yes.
		Michael, I'm very impressed with your credibility and your background.
		And the lady from New Orleans was quite right.
		This is spiritual warfare that we're in.
		And being so fleshly, of course, we take it that way and interpret it from that point of view, rather, from a spiritual.
		And the two comments I want to make are, one, the scripture is very clear that Satan will appear as an angel of light.
		Because, I mean, if he appeared as the evil being that he was, he'd reveal himself and people would flee and not be deceived.
		And the question I have for you, Michael, is these apparitions of the Virgin Mary in various places, and I'm not denying that these things are occurring.
		What I'm pointing out is what I believe is the source.
		We are told very clearly in Scripture not to consort with the dead, that necromancy is against what the Lord wants for us.
		So how is it consistent with Scripture and God's word that people could be consorting with Mary, who would be a dead human being?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a very good question.
		And I have to say that back, I think, in Exodus and Deuteronomy, when we were told about sorcery and enchanters and so forth, necromancy is communicating with the dead.
		We should not consort with mediums and people who allow spirits to talk through them.
		But I think you have to draw a distinction between occultic communication with the dead and holy mysticism.
		You look at Christ.
		Christ in his transfiguration spoke to the dead.
		He was still in human form when he spoke to Moses and Elijah.
		He had apparitions of Moses and Elijah along with a couple of his disciples.
		So there is a precedent for it, and I think that these appearances of the Virgin Mary are quite distinct from that type of occultism.
		Although I've got to also tell you that there are cases of people reporting the Virgin Mary that turn out to be either products of imagination or exaggeration or spiritual deception.
		So that does happen.
		But I do think that we're right now in Revelation 12 and we're starting to begin Revelation chapter 13.
		And chapter 12 of Revelation talks about a woman clothed with the sun and appearing in the remote hinterlands like Yugoslavia.
		And I think that if you look back at that and what is said in Genesis about the woman putting her heel to the snake, the serpent's head, I think that we begin to form a precedent for what's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Michael, from AP down in San Diego, would you ask your guest his impression of Hal Lindsay's writings and Elizabeth Clare Prophet's teachings?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Elizabeth Clare Prophet, from what I understand, is, and I don't know anything about her, but certainly a lot of people say that it gets into this New Age stuff, and I'd like to stay away from that.
		And Hal Lindsay, Hal Lindsay's a Christian.
		He gets into a lot of biblical prophecy from the Protestant perspective or from the non-denominational perspective.
		He goes further than I do.
		He says some things in a stronger way than I would as a journalist.
		Again, as I mentioned, I can't sit here from my vantage point and tell you that we're in the last days or that we're approaching some final coming or final judgment.
		But I will say that guys like Hale Lindsay are feeling some type of prophetic impulse, something like you're feeling too, Art.
		Something is coming down the pike, and we better be prepared for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Brown.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm calling from Fort Smith, Arkansas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Michael, I have a question.
		In the book of Hebrews, it speaks in reference to vessels of destruction being created, almost giving the impression, and I'm wanting to find out your opinion, that we really have no choice when it's all said and done.
		you know what I'm talking about but we have not met Well, what it says that God created vessels of destruction as well as vessels for glory.
		Meaning that there are vessels that were created for the dark side and then that there were vessels created for light.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Maybe you're talking about UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, and that there is no choice.
		In other words, that these individuals are predestined to be as they are.
		Is that what you're saying?
unidentified		That's correct.
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's what he means.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, there were so many references in the Bible to Vessel.
		I just, while you were talking, quickly punched into my computer, and I think you can find the word vessel in 20 books, it says here.
		But I don't know, when it comes to evil, I think that's a choice.
		I don't think that God creates evil.
		I think that that's something that we create ourselves or that we hook into.
		I shouldn't say we create because it was here before we ever existed.
		As Christ said that he saw Satan fall like lightning.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Michael, we've got to pause here.
		It's the bottom of the hour.
		Michael Brown is my guest.
		He is the journalist that broke the Love Canal story.
		From a Christian perspective, he's talking about his new book now, The Final Hour.
		The century of good versus evil.
		And there is more.
		And we'll tell you, by the way, in just a moment, how to get this book.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		music
		Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		That's 702-727-1295.
		First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		My guest is Michael Brown, an investigative journalist and now an author.
		His book, The Final Hour, is the one we're spending a lot of time with.
		Michael has a very distinguished background.
		He's in Albany, New York, and we will be getting back to Michael in just a moment.
		I've got a number of faxes, a number of questions, and we're going to find out, or in fact, we're going to pry the information from him about exactly how you go about getting his book.
		And because it is somewhat Christian in nature, you can't walk into any bookstore.
		I presume you can walk into some and get them.
		We'll find out exactly how you can get them.
		So get a pencil and paper ready.
		Now, once again, here's Michael Brown from Albany.
unidentified		Michael?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's tell him how to get your book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess you can't walk into any bookstore and get it?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can in some, but you can order it through Waldens, the Christian bookstores, the Catholic bookstores.
		But in some parts of the country, there's a problem because the secular stores don't often carry some of the Christian prophecies, even though the books sell as much as what they do carry.
		But there is an 800 number that's available Monday morning, and they can call that and get the book also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's give it to them.
		I'm going to try and say it here.
		You tell me if I'm wrong.
		I've got one 800-576-6477.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's 800-576-6477.
unidentified		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they can call it Monday morning.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they can order either the trumpet of Gabriel and or the final hour.
unidentified		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		All right, excellent.
		I'd like to, in the remaining time, spend as much time on the phones as we can.
		On the first-time caller line, you're on the air with Michael Brown.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, calling from Sault Ste.
		Re, Ontario.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ontario, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, from Canada there.
		Yeah, I just had a question or actually a comment, I guess, for Michael there.
		This is about the Bible, the book of Revelation there.
		It had this thing that was mentioned a couple times about this Babylon, the Great Thing, eh?
		And I just wondered if Michael, Mr. Brown there, knew anything about that, what that was or anything.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, certainly, if you look at the book of Revelation and you see the reference there to Babylon, it's very striking.
		It seems like nearly a description of where I used to live, New York City, or I guess you could say Los Angeles, too.
		A place where all of the merchants of the earth came and had all these luxuries and all of these jewels and precious stones and pearls and linen and purple and silk and all this other stuff.
		And also was into sensuality and all kinds of promiscuity and so forth, perversions.
		And of course we know what happened to Babylon.
		It was destroyed.
		So maybe it pertains, the fall of Babylon pertains to what's going on in American cities these days, especially New York and Los Angeles, San Francisco.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Michael, how do you view AIDS?
unidentified		Well, I find it...
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I find it peculiar that it strikes the way it does.
		There's always plagues that take innocence with them.
		I'd be a lawyer if I told you it didn't have some of the earmarks of a classical plague.
		But I know that that raises tremendous ire with people, and yet it seems kind of site-specific.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does, but as you mentioned, of course, it takes with it innocence.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		As all chastisement does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's the facts.
		My wife has been following the apparitions for some time now.
		She receives something called the Blue Letter that reports on what Mary has revealed to the visionaries.
		Since she began appearing, the message has been to pray, pray, pray, especially as a family.
		Let's see, as a family, I'm sorry.
		Recently, she revealed to the visionaries that people have been responding to her plea for praying, passing, and penance.
		And have in some way alleviated or decreased the degree of one of the seven secrets which have been revealed to the visionaries.
		So, I guess suggesting there has been progress?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I think that that's true in some regard.
		At least things have been postponed.
		Now, that seventh secret at Majiguri, was it the seventh or eighth that was lessened there occurred that's been reported now several years back.
		So, again, pointing out that these can be conditional prophecies.
		However, I think if you take things in its totality, we've got a long way to go if we're going to prevent, like I said, major purifications from coming.
		But I like that fact because it shows that there's hope.
		There's a lot of hope.
		We can pray our way out of this.
unidentified		This is the end of side one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please leave the cassette exactly where it is.
unidentified		Flip it over and begin again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Steve, if you like this one, it's reported in the English translation of the Bible that Jesus instructed his followers to love your enemy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If Satan is the enemy, how does your guest interpret that?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I think it's referring to human enemies, and he was not human, anything but.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Brown.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		I'm calling from St. Louis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yes, Michael, I really like the way you communicate your ideas.
		I was wanting to, I agree with the lady from Louisiana, another caller who remarked on the spiritual warfare.
		And I'd like to boil it down further to the spiritual issue of control of the planet versus freedom of the planet spiritually.
		And what I see presently right now is a huge amount of money, government funds being thrown at our social problems, crime, illiteracy, and drug addiction.
		And yet those problems are not diminishing.
		They're multiplying and expanding like wildfire.
		And the field that is supposed to be handling, has been assigned to handle this area, these experts and professionals in the field of psychiatry and mental health, which is not a science and it has no proven method to justify its existence.
		Their theory is that man is a mere animal, a soulless being, and these treatments have been used to rationalize doing all manner of things.
		And I was wondering if you could comment on that.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have pretty strong feelings on this.
		And again, I don't want to sound like Mr. Know it all because I recognize how very little I do know.
		And I mean that sincerely.
		However, I've got to say that there are a lot of things in psychology and psychiatry that are mislabeled.
		A lot of the schizophrenia and psychosis, other forms of psychosis, including, of course, multiple personality, I think speaks more to possession and spiritual problems than to something, quote, psychological, unquote.
		And I think that calling it a psychological term like schizophrenia is a smokescreen that prevents us from solving the problem.
		If we would look at the spiritual roots of a lot of the problems in our society, whether it's drug use or crime or whatever, then I think we could make real progress.
		And the same with somebody who is, quote, mentally ill, unquote.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Therefore, Michael, what is the psychiatrist doing?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		In my opinion, not too much.
unidentified		They're collecting big paychecks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But simply tampering about and stirring the evil pot, basically.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Look at their success rate.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I'd gladly compare the success rate of a deliverance minister or an exorcist with that of a psychiatrist or a psychotherapist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well said.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Brown.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you're not.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Michael Brown.
		Good morning.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Michael, I have spoken with Arthur before regarding the enthusiasm the public has around the world for killing its children, its fetuses.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Do you suspect that the enthusiasm for this practice might lie in something that you've outlined already in the conversations that you had earlier tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a good question.
		What is it now?
		1.5 or 6 million abortions a year, Michael.
		Any comment?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		37 billion worldwide.
		I mean, I think we always have to look at the worldwide perspective because this crisis is an international one.
		I think abortion is the biggest problem in human history.
		And, you know, everyone's waiting for the big one or some event that will destroy a city.
		But every year in this country, with 1.5 abortions, that's like wiping out the cities of Dallas and Buffalo combined.
		So I think the chastisement in some ways is already here through our own hands.
		But I'll tell you, I mean, you get this constantly through these Mary apparitions and the most credible ones.
		If we don't stop this blood practice, which is really nearly a blood sacrifice, unknowingly, it's an unknowing blood sacrifice, if we don't stop this practice, then I think you can expect some truly, truly major events to happen, including in Western Europe with a natural event and in the former republics of the Soviet Union with warfare and natural disasters here in America.
		We're starting to see with Hurricane Andrew, with these bizarre storms that have hit the East Coast.
		We're always hearing Storm of the Century.
		Storm of the Century.
		California earlier this week.
		Storm of the century geographically with so many counties involved.
		How many storms of the century do we need?
		Holland, which is one of the most liberal countries on earth, just was flooded out.
		I mean, we're constantly hearing about the Mississippi flooding or the Rhine flooding or, like I said, the earthquake in Colbay or volcanoes and so forth.
		When are we going to wake up and realize that something is fundamentally wrong and that these events are going to increase in frequency and intensity until we wake up?
		And if we don't wake up, then we're going to see something of global proportions.
		We're going to see some type of nearly cosmic event.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Michael Brown.
unidentified		Hello, I'm on.
unidentified		You're on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off.
unidentified		Oh, great.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Moscow, Idaho.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And anyway, what I'm calling about is that I personally, I feel that I've had two experiences with angelic presences.
		One was when I was 11 years old.
		It was in December of 69.
		It only lasted for a short time, but it was after a church service.
		By the way, my background is Lutheran.
		That's not to say that I'm a particularly good Lutheran, but I've always taken it seriously.
		But the second time that it happened was in January of 93.
		And earlier in that day, I was in my university.
		I'm a graduate student.
		And anyhow, I talked, we had a lot of And anyhow, I mentioned about Najiguri, that this is something that you had to take seriously.
		Not that I was any expert on it, but I knew a little bit about it.
		And particularly the fact that there were predictions of a war.
		And of course, this was in Bosnia.
		And we all know what happened there.
		So anyhow, I remember at the point that I started talking about that, there was a certain feeling of warmth that I felt within myself.
		And later on, when I came back home from class, I felt very, I really did feel like there was an angelic presence, an incredible feeling of warmth, love, youthfulness.
		And it stayed with me for, I would say, over an hour.
		And after that, I actually ended up writing a beautiful poem, which was published in a local publication, which had quite a bit of what you might call subtle religious imagery.
		But at any rate, I just basically wanted to come out of the closet and say this.
		This is for real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you.
		Michael, are the incidences of this kind of thing increasing?
		And I'm sure you're going to say they are.
		How do we document that fact?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, you know, as you know, with a fax machine and telephones and TV, things can seem more intense than they really are.
		And in recorded history, because they didn't have the type of communication system we have, and because they didn't have the recording and reportage we have, we can't really compare.
		But it certainly seems as if this much I can tell you, with Marianne Apparitions, Apparitions of the Virgin Mary, I've spoken in the last two and a half years in 108, last count, 108 cities.
		And everywhere I go, I run into people who are having experiences like your other caller, or even stronger experiences visually, seeing things or hearing prophecy.
		And so I know that I didn't hear this three years ago or four years ago or 10 years ago.
		So something is definitely going on.
		Like you said, if nothing else, you can sense it.
		And if you talk to bishops and priests, they'll tell you that they've been around for a long time and they've never seen anything, anything approaching this.
		So I think there's an objective reason to think that it is increasing tremendously in frequency and intensity.
		And I hope we heed the reasons for this whole episode.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You don't have to answer this.
		I'm going to try to pin you to the wall a little bit here.
		Given no change in course, and I mean no change in course, and I don't think there's going to be one.
		I guess I'm pessimistic here.
		How long do you think we have before there is a major event?
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Magic Ray visionaries said that they're going to live to see the secrets that they were given unfold.
		They're in their late 20s.
		One of them said that before the events begin to unfold, that she will alert her spiritual director, who's a priest who's probably 55 years old at least right now, around 55 years old, which implies that he'll see the events.
		So, I mean, I think in our lifetimes, if we're in our 40s and 50s, certainly, but I think that as far as, I think even this decade, we're seeing things already.
		We're going to see more and more as this decade and as this century, as this millennium starts to approach its uncertain conclusion.
		So I'm not saying something's going to happen in the year 2000.
		I want to make that clear.
		We can, as you said, get into this millennial madness.
		But I think the next few years are going to be very interesting.
		I think, I've got to play, I'll play this straight from the shoulder because that's the way I like to talk when I get in this realm.
		If America doesn't change course, and it's a good country with good people with a good heart and a good spirit, it was founded on Christianity.
		And even Washington had an alleged apparition of an angelic or a female being, a beautiful being.
		If it doesn't change current course, America as we know it is going to basically dissemble.
		It's going to fall apart.
		It's not going to be recognizable in 25 to 30 years through not just natural disasters, but through societal chaos and rioting and economic problems.
		And I think you're going to see some very interesting economic things in the future as well as all of these other events.
		I would, again, keep an eye on all kinds of events occurring in parts of the country as being precursors for larger storms And larger societal chaos, larger crimes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The knocks on the door will get more frequent, more urgent, and louder.
unidentified		Until the door itself is blown in.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		And I think that we may well see the breakdown of our technological society.
		In some ways, our society has become artificial.
		In many ways, it's become artificial.
		And I think that this artificiality, this plasticity, this plastic way of living, is going to be broken down, and we're going to live humbler and simpler lives.
		And I think that there's going to be widespread devastation through plagues and new plagues.
		There's even a movie out right now called Outbreak.
		And I think we should pay attention to prophecy, not just from the religious realm, but also from some of our artists, because they too feel this prophetic impulse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just read a book called The Hot Zone, and it scared the hell out of me.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		I read the same book, and it seems it's incredible what a virus can do and what kind of viruses can mutate.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Watch out for viruses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Watch out for viruses.
		In the last couple of days, there has been a report of this new flesh-eating disease in Minnesota, so there you are.
		Michael, it sure has been a pleasure having you on.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Pleasure being with you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I hope lots of people call up and order your book.
		1-800-576-6477, The Trumpet of Gabriel, and the final hour.
		All I can say is, Michael, thank you.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		It was a pleasure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's been a great three hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, Michael.
michael brown ▲ ● ▼		You take care, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's Michael Brown.
		And I hope you enjoyed it.
		That was a good, solid three hours.
		And by the way, those of you, and I imagine there are going to be many, and I'm going to have to ask for a little bit of patience from the audience, those of you who would like to order copies of the program you've just heard may do so beginning now at the following telephone number.
		Please take it down.

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