Art Bell

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Feb. 12, 1995 - Art Bell

01:51:59

Dreamland with Art Bell - Future Life & Past Lives - Dr. Bruce Goldberg

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25:38

bruce goldberg

01:04:00

linda moulton howe

09:43

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		This hour of Art Bell was recorded for rebroadcast at this time.
		Please do not call.
		Please do not call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily ignored.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped.
		And yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
		This is Dreamland.
		Sunday evening once again in Dreamland.
		Hi, everybody.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		And I think you're going to enjoy this evening as, in a way, kind of a follow-up to what we've done with Cork Michael Scallion and beyond, of course.
		But we'll follow up on a couple of those things as well.
		Because our guest is going to be Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		And his specialty is hypnosis, past life regression, future life progression.
		Wait a minute now.
		Future life progression.
		Seems to me if we can look into the future, we can look into the future.
		So we'll ask him about some of what Gordon Michael Scallion said, predicted.
		By the way, on that subject, our lines are just jammed with people trying to order that tape.
		And my recommendation to you is at continue to try, if you're trying to get a tape of Gordon Michael Scallion, begin tomorrow also during regular business hours.
		Repeat during regular business hours.
		You can continue to try tonight or try tomorrow.
		And the number to call to get copies of Dreamland programs to subscribe to our newsletter or to order the tape of Mr. Scallion that so many are trying to get is 1-800-917-4278.
		1-800-917-4278.
		just one moment, Linda Howe will do an opening report for us, and I understand she's got a very interesting one.
		Many of you health-conscious people know about anti-oxidant
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Frazier said that his two cows found 25 feet apart from each other, both lying on the same side with the same excisions, had four of their six teeth removed in neat circles.
		But as usual, the local livestock investigator told the sheriff's office that it was predator, and that has been the formal conclusion.
		Since the newspaper did an interview with me and some others, I've received phone reports from local residents who say that they have seen odd lights in the woods back of their homes not far from the pastures where the mutilated animals were found.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Linda, as a matter of interest, which predator is it that removes tongue and teeth?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		As far as I know, Art, none of them are capable of doing the kind of surgery I've seen with my own eyes.
		And when I was in Colorado in January and presented the update on our research about animal mutilations the last 12 months, I showed the sheriffs a whole series of photographs done by Texas A ⁇ M and University of Utah wildlife specialists on what predators do do to cattle, to sheep, to goats.
		None of the photographs resemble any of the high strangeness bloodlust cases, and it impressed the sheriffs as in Alabama, the rancher knows that what he's dealing with is not predator, but for some reason, we are still living in a time when it is easier to deny this strange phenomenon than it is to just simply face it, deal with it straightforwardly, and investigate it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Now, if there are any Dreamland listeners in the Alabama area who hear about unusual animal deaths, I would greatly appreciate your calling me at 215-491-9840.
		There is apparently an upsurge of activity in Alabama, and I would appreciate fresh first-hand reports.
		My address is Post Office Box 538 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, and the zip code is 1-9006.
		Again, the phone number for unusual animal death or strange light reports is 215-491-9840.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we're on the air in Birmingham.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it close to that?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Birmingham and Mobile, I don't know what the mileage is, but hopefully Birmingham listeners, maybe if you hear about something in the Mobile area, you can contact me because it's one of the big challenges getting information out of even local areas, let alone the states.
		Now, in December, I reported about a man in Atlanta, Georgia who watched helicopters escort what looked like a darker patch of blue sky that he could see moving against the lighter blue sky.
		He wondered if the helicopters were escorting some kind of flies, UFO, or new aircraft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, last week I received a letter from another Dreamland listener who heard the Atlanta Man's report and talked to me about a United States government technology that might explain what the Georgia man saw and according to her is based on extraterrestrial technology.
		The woman asked to remain anonymous even though she agreed to give this first-hand report about her conversation with a Central Intelligence Agency employee who has been involved in a project to make aerial craft invisible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh my.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		shades of the philadelphia experiment He is an engineer, had been an engineer since college, ended up in management probably by the time he was in his 40s, and somehow got associated with the CIA.
		He was in Washington, D.C. and very smart man, and my husband had been an engineer, and so we would talk engineering.
		I had a little concept of what he was discussing.
		It was fun.
		And then once we got into some of the things that, you know, well, gee, you're going off to Vienna and you're going off here and there.
		You're doing a lot of top secret things, aren't you?
		And he'd kid me a little bit and say, no, of course not, Linda.
		I wouldn't ever be able to do anything like that.
		And just, you know, enough so I began to realize that he was involved in some things with the CIA, technical type of things that really were none of my business, and so I probably shouldn't pursue it.
		One night, however, after many, many months of just kidding around, he said to me, okay, I'll tell you what, I'll discuss something with you that's very interesting that I've been involved in for a while, and obviously this is something for you alone, and we were in an area where no one else would have heard.
		And he told me that they were working on a very top-secret airplane that would be invisible.
		It would fly over, you would not see it, you would not hear it.
		Everyone knows there's technology that can, I guess, inhibit sound.
		That's not a problem.
		But is there something that literally someone can walk in front of you or something can pass in front and you won't see it?
		I said, well, how on earth does that work?
		And he said, well, it's altering of the cones and the rods in your eyes when it passes by.
		And I don't really know the technology, but taking a picture or whatever else, you know, you've got to have the lens working and all the little mechanisms have to be working to receive the light into the eyes so that it registers.
		And something cuts off the light re, I don't know.
		You'd have to ask an engineer how that works.
		But that is indeed the way they would do it.
		So it's there.
		As it flies by, it doesn't do anything to itself.
		It does something to your cones and your rods so that you cannot receive the light to see it.
		I just remember him telling me that there was indeed a project and it did indeed work.
		So whatever the reasons and the plans for it, I don't know.
		But it was sort of precipitated by your asking him questions if he had knowledge about things extraterrestrial.
		Yeah, definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		That's an important report.
		And, you know, Linda, the visual spectrum to the human being is not very much different except in frequency than the audio spectrum.
		And you can do that with audio.
		You can virtually cancel audio.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, in fact, one of the footnotes to this, what I consider to be a very important report, too, was my own experience at Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque back in April 1983 when I was talking with Air Force Office of Special Investigations Agent Richard C. Doty about extraterrestrial phenomena.
		And he told me then, now this is 1983, that the government knew that the non-human intelligences that are interacting with our planet could deflect photons so that light would be deflected away from the human retina, thus making the alien craft invisible when desired.
		And this raises the interesting question that perhaps the popping in and popping out characteristics of the UFO phenomena so often reported by eyewitnesses relates to a photon deflection technology.
		And perhaps this woman's report is about CIA technology development that mimics that effect.
		It might be more technology than what people speculate about in terms of interdimensional doorway popping in, popping out.
		This may be strictly technology.
		And if any of our Dreamland listeners have any more information about photon deflecting technology or technology that would affect the cones and rods of the human eye by objects flying over so they become invisible, please contact me at my post office box 538 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
		And the zip code is 19006.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is liable to get us a contact, all right, either you or me or both of us by somebody we don't want to talk to.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, slowly by slowly steps.
		I think at least Reamland, I am becoming extremely convinced that we have a lot of listeners with a lot of solid information and that they are learning that they can communicate anonymously and we will protect that but still share the information which we all need to know.
		And just another small follow-up, you have been talking with Gordon Michael Scallion about the future and you will be doing more so tonight with your guest.
		Recently in the last three or four weeks I've been getting phone calls and letters from abductees that I have had files and dialogue with over the last few years and they are reporting what they call these virtual reality dreams that seem more real than life itself.
		And what they claim that they are seeing in the dreams are volcanoes and earthquakes.
		It raises a question which I know you're going to be discussing tonight.
		Is there something coming up here in the future that is going to involve more earthquakes and more volcanoes?
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well you're like another source.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then you have talked to a number of people who have said this or what?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have had at least a half a dozen phone and letter reports From abductees who don't know each other.
		They're in different parts of the country.
		And periodically, I will get phone calls and letters and what's on their mind.
		And right now, what is on their mind is upcoming earthquakes and volcanoes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My, my, my.
		All right.
		Very good.
		I appreciate that, Linda.
		And I assume next week, I shouldn't assume, will you be in Philadelphia?
		Where are you going to be?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I will be in Philadelphia as far as I know.
		And I look forward to continuing correspondence from our Dreamland audience.
		This letter and this interview, I think, gives you an idea of how strong the content can be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Linda.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And thank you, Orange.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		And I'm going to repeat her phone number for those listening to WYDE in Birmingham, Alabama, or anybody else who has information on this technology that she just talked about.
		God, that's fascinating.
		Modifying the light and the way it's received in the cones and rods in your eye.
		Linda's phone number is Area Code 2 Donahue, Joan Rivers, Regis and Kathy Lee, CNN, and CBS News, among others.
		He's also served as a consultant on the film version of The Search for Grace, which was made into a movie for CBS starring Lisa Hartman and Ken Wall and aired in May of 1994.
		He also, by the way, in December, was on a program called Other Side, the Other Side NBC Television, where he progressed a studio audience member into a future life and then later guided the entire studio audience into the future of this life and a future lifetime.
		December 3rd, CNBC re-ran his 1993 interview with Tom Snyder, and there they talked about physics and progression.
		So he's been all over the media.
		Now he's over it a little more.
		Here with just a couple of minutes before the bottom of the hour is Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		Hi, Dr. Goldberg.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It's nice to reincarnate back on your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, glad to have you.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I have some good news for both you and your listeners in reference to the topic that seems to be getting a lot of attention these days, and that is that we can discuss this in more detail, of course, but progressions done by my patients, and I mean thousands of them, have shown that there will be no more major earthquakes, larger than the Northridge earthquake anyway of last year, for the rest of the century.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		So the gloom and doomers are not going to get it right this time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good news.
		And I'm glad to have something over on the other side.
		But I would ask you this.
		I can understand how one could easily document regression.
		You could go back and look at history and records, and you could go through careful documentation, I know you've done that, and prove that your information is accurate.
		With regard to the future, how do you document it?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can document age progression first.
		And obviously, this is what we did on the three patients that were kind enough to come on the other side with me two months ago when NBC here at the show were patients who I had worked with about five years prior to the show.
		And what we did was I followed them up.
		I followed them through.
		One of them was a case of a woman who had AIDS, and she was able to proceed into the future where she was able to be taken off experimental medication that was not working, and her immune system would respond between, let's say, four and five times the quality that it would have done had the medication worked.
		That's exactly what happened.
		Her CD4 count is now six times what it was back about in March of last year as a result of being taken off the medication.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And she came off that medication based on the progression?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, she came off the medication.
		She chose, we're going to talk about how we choose frequencies.
		She actually chose her ideal path in which she was told by the physician that the medication was not working and that it's her option whether she wants to fly off and get the side effects.
		And she said, okay, take me off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, take me off.
		All right, doctor, hold on.
		We'll be right back to you.
		Dr. Bruce Goldberg is my guest.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We're Talk 102.
		We're Talk 102.
		This hour of Art Bell was recorded for rebroadcast at this time.
		please do not call Talk with Art Bell.
		First time callers to Dreamland, dialed 702-727-1222.
		This is Dreamland on the CBC Radio Night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, and I've got some information just in from USGS, the Alaska Information Center.
		Brace yourselves.
		There was a 6.2 earthquake today felt over a large area of Alaska.
		I've got a second fax on it as well.
		It was 6.2 in, let me see.
		Well, here's another fax.
		We listen to you on KFAR Fairbanks, Alaska.
		There was a 6.2 earthquake in south central Alaska today.
		And that's from Dan and Susan.
		And then combined with the USGS report that I have, also calling that.
		And a 6.2 earthquake in New Zealand, probably an aftershock.
		Northern Peru today, 5.7.
		And the California-Nevada border, 3.7.
		In Las Vegas, they had a mild one, 3.3, and 2.2.
		Make that two very mild ones.
		Then this facts.
		Good evening, Art.
		Please take a moment to welcome KYOS Merced, California.
		Back to Carrying Dreamland Live.
		And thanks for listening to their listeners.
		Yes, indeed.
		Thanks for listening to your listeners.
		KYOS, back live with us on Sunday evenings.
		Now, Yate.
unidentified		Now, back to Dr. Goldberg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bruce, are you there?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I'm certainly here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		We were talking a little bit about how you can document some of these things.
		And again, the nice thing about when you work with this, I've been doing this for 20 years now, is that with people who I work with over many years who I can then follow through on those three patients that were kind enough to go on the other side interview two months ago, these people had gone forward in time, back in 1989 all the way to About 92, when I worked with some of these people.
		And this was now anywhere from two to five years after the fact.
		The perceptions that they had received and the ideal frequency that we're going to talk about how people can actually control their destiny was actually able to manifest themselves.
		So they actually documented the progressions.
		Now, if you can document age progressions, then using simple extrapolation principles, you can also then make that a reasonable theory, let's just say, or hypothesis as to the future lives coming true, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Makes sense to me.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		In fact, I've worked with newscasters who predicted, in fact, in past life specialized in my older book, there was a radio host who predicted a baseball score result.
		There was a newscaster who predicted, if you will, or progressed himself to perceive actual news items that actually came true.
		Many of these were local and they were not logical items like a small plane crash and a fire in the city and the name of the person who died and things like that.
		So there are lots of little things that give more credence to the idea that these progressions are, of course, reality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One of the first things everybody would ask about this, Dr. Goldberg, if you can really begin to predict events, then you could predict the stock market.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You could predict all kinds of financial trends and events that, frankly, could get you rich.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And the answer is you can do it.
		The problem here is this.
		You have something called the laws of karma.
		And this is what it means.
		It isn't just one future.
		It's not like this is what I always have a problem when people tell me about their psychic readings or some of the prognostications or even their own precognitive dreams that they have.
		Because you're getting a frequency or an option.
		If you're not on that frequency, then the lottery number you get or the stock market reading you get is not going to be relevant to you.
		You have to be on the same frequency where that perception or progression is attained.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let me tell you just one little bit about Gordon Michael Scallion, what he said, about how his visions come.
		He said, almost like a television screen that plays in front of you, but not just one, three.
		He said, two of them will be fainter.
		One of them will be brighter in contrast and is the most probable future, but he agrees it could go, it could change, it could go another direction.
		He says he's learned to pick this brighter, more probable future.
		Does that make any sense?
		That kind of coincides.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it does.
		What he's saying basically is that in Path I Visualize and also in The Search of Grace in the back of it, I give the complete explanation of how the quantum, physics, space-time, continuum works.
		What I break it down to very simply are five basic options people have.
		And the one that's ideal, if you will, that the one they can choose and be programmed to, is going to be the one that's going to be pretty much their framework of their reality.
		Now, what that means, for example, let's say that Mr. Scallion and others, and let's talk about people like Casey and Nostradamus and biblical predictions and all the ones that unforced to show gloom and doom.
		I'm not saying those aren't going to occur.
		What I'm saying is that I know I'm not going to be on that frequency, and anybody else who uses very simple techniques of switching tracks can actually be switched away from that track where that negative frequency is a reality to a more positive one.
		I'll give you a good example of this.
		The best thing I can relate to is that in 1977, when I developed the field of progression hypnotherapy, I decided to do a little research, an unpublished research experiment.
		I wanted to take about 500 people into the future, specifically going to the end of the century, because of the various things I've mentioned, the Casey and the Notes for Domestic and the Bible and things like that.
		So what I did was I found out that about 80% of these people showed that on the frequency they were on, that in May of 1988, they all came up with the same figure, May of 1988 a nuclear war began.
		Now, you know, I don't read the papers every day, but, you know, I don't remember one.
		In fact, a nuclear war is going on right now on a certain frequency.
		We're not on that frequency.
		That's how similar and how different they are.
		It's on the same longitude and latitude.
		It's on the same, shall we say, dimension, if you will, out there, except this the parallel universe that it represents, which is proven, by the way, by quantum physics, since 1957, we know about parallel universes that has been documented at Princeton University, of all places, that they are that off, just like a radio frequency is, if you change a dial, you're a hair off, you've got a different frequency, you've got a different show coming in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, you're in California, right?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I'm in Los Angeles, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Los Angeles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My advice would be stay on a different frequency.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, but my point is that it's not just the point is to choose the ideal frequency and stay on that one rather than just say staying off, just say, then staying off all the others.
		You have to know where you're coming from.
		You have to have a scorecard with the players on there.
		And most people, they don't have that.
		What they do is they just unfortunately get hit by this gloom and doom.
		We were talking a little bit before the show about how back, I remember I was doing a radio interview here in Los Angeles on KFI Radio, a big radio station out here, and I was regressing and progressing the host of the show into the future.
		And she went to the 23rd century.
		And it was a great, great show.
		But what happened was that she was very nervous during that show because that was November of 1991.
		And the following month, the seismologist at Caltech predicted a major, major earthquake in the Midwest, in the Mississippi River Valley, covering like about 10 or 12 states.
		And it was supposed to be the worst earthquake in the world's history.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember it, yeah.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And guess what?
		And the news cameras were there, and CNN was there, and everybody was there.
		And December 7th, Pearl Harbor Day of 1991, occurred exactly 50 years, by the way.
		And guess what?
		Nothing happened.
		And this was one of the most prominent men in this field who is not on the news very much these days, fortunately.
		But my point here is that you can't predict earthquakes scientifically.
		Now, psychically, of course you can get vibrations, and patients of mine can get progressions showing that.
		But if you look around and perceive the other four major options, you'll find that there are no major earthquakes on at least one, if not two, of the major frequencies.
		And if you're on that frequency, the Northwoods earthquake of last year here or some of these others, you mentioned 6.2.
		I don't like any earthquakes at all.
		But you know something?
		6.2 is not going to put California into the ocean.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
		It certainly is not.
		There's no question about it.
		Those are just quakes that occurred today.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		But what I'm saying is that people feel that the so-called big one, you know, they had, I remember on the local news here just in Los Angeles about a week or so or 10 days ago, they interviewed a Caltech scientist, osmologist, and he said, well, you know, there's so much pressure built up.
		We haven't really had a big earthquake.
		The big one since 1810 or something Crazy figure.
		So he says, We're really due for it.
		He says, Well, when's it going to be?
		He says, Well, it could be tomorrow or in 75 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Well, actually, I think they narrow it down to the next 30 years.
		It could be tomorrow or within the next 30 years.
		But science is out there also warning right now of a big earthquake.
		So you're right, you're running against the trend, but that's fine.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		The point is that is not to be scared by, this is what you call playing defense.
		And see, my point here as a therapist is empowerment.
		Number one, I'm not saying, believe me, I'm the last person in the world to do things of complete folly.
		I didn't move from the East Coast to the West Coast because I wanted to be in the middle of the Pacific Ocean on a dinghy, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe this is why somebody accosted Dan Rather and demanded to know the frequency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But what I'm saying is that, look, if you send the energy out that you're worried about the possibility, what if, then you actually create an energy level that can make that a reality.
		If you take an empowered point of view, and if you take the point of view that, you know something, I don't really worry about earthquakes.
		There's not a daunting I can do about them anyway.
		I'm going to think positively and program myself and my parallel universe on a positive level, guess what?
		You now have decreased significantly the likelihood of that disaster occurring.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If that's a universal truth, then those who predict doom and gloom are bringing it on.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're only bringing it on to themselves.
		You have to have millions and millions of people actually send that negative energy out to do that.
		That's why, for example, those of your listeners out there who may have, not that this is a scientific treatise, but if they ever read, for example, the Seth material, Jane Roberts books in the early 70s, they would talk about, Seth, the discarnate entity, would talk about how, well, you know, these earthquakes and these typhoons and all these little things are brought about by the global magnified negative energy.
		Quantum physicists have actually documented the fact that energy does have a certain effect.
		In fact, there was a scientist, a neurologist up at Stanford by the name of Carl Pribbham, who's now retired in North Carolina now.
		But when he was there for 30 years, he came up with the holonomic memory theory, or brain theory, which states and combines neurology with quantum mechanics, which says that not only does a thought create a hologram, but that hologram creates parallel universes marrying into quantum physics, and you literally have a three-dimensional representation of your reality and your future and your parallel futures by just having thoughts occur in your mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if we can do this with regard to external events, doctor, then I would think that the power to heal oneself would be overwhelmingly strong.
unidentified		Well, it is.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		In fact, in my older book, Past By Sutralize, I talked about a case of hysterical blindness of a woman who was able to use a regression and cleansing techniques to reverse that.
		I deal with allergies every week in my office.
		I have psychosomatic illnesses.
		I have patients who have everything from asthma, migraine headaches, to colitis, to spastic stomach, and colons, etc.
		These are people who are making tremendous, and of course the immune system.
		Let's talk about, let's not forget about the woman who was on the other side with me, Mary.
		She was able to build up her immune system where she's almost out of the AIDS classification now.
		That's how good her immune system is these days.
unidentified		Actually, there are quite some number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've been reading a book called You Don't Have to Die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I can't remember the name of the author, but there were a lot of similar cases documented in there of people who have literally actually brought themselves out of the AIDS classification by raising their T4 count.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And also people who have remiss cancer tumors, because see, the research today, I had a call from an old friend from NIH, and she wants me to work on a research project with her, one of the grants in the future, in reference to my techniques, just as more of a theoretical backup.
		And I said, fine, but what they're doing is now they're finding that the classic AIDS research isn't working.
		Just as in Mary's case, she had to be pulled off the drug because it wasn't working.
		What they're doing now is they're using the cancer research, because in cancer, you know, the problem with cancer is that the T lymphocytes, which fight cancer for the most part, they won't attack their own cells.
		That's why cancer, which is nothing but a normal cell that has become abnormal, the immune system doesn't attack its own.
		So that's why people, the tumors grow and grow and grow.
		And they're trying to use some of the ways to stimulate the cancer immune system to deal with AIDS.
		Now, what's also interesting is this.
		Carl Simonton, back in the 60s or early 70s, when he developed the visual imagery techniques for fighting cancer by using the, you know, you imagine the cancer is a piece of meat and your immune system is a bunch of sharks and things like that.
		What he did was, he did that on more of a psychological hypnotic viewpoint because his wife, Stephanie, was a psychologist.
		But at Penn State University, among others, I'm familiar with Penn State because my undergraduate background in biochemistry, is that they came up with, they found out that when patients were exhibiting hypnotic levels, alpha levels, which also includes meditation, that they would actually increase the amount of T lymphocytes produced when they would do these biochemical, they would take certain aspects of their spinal fluid to see what the, and brain mind barrier extracts to see what the production of the immune system was.
		And they found out that in alpha, the production of T lymphocytes was always increased.
		So therefore, we have scientific and absolute biochemical evidence to show that when people do things like relax levels of alpha, that they actually increase their immune system.
		In fact, I have a new scientific article coming out later this year, which will be a survey of the medical literature, it's not my research, showing how the medical literature shows that there is an adrenal corticosteroid produced by the adrenal gland called DHEA slash S. And what this does, the production of this slows down the aging process.
		And the purpose of this article is to show how by using alpha levels like meditation, hypnosis, yoga, biofeedback, et cetera, that you actually will look younger.
		In fact, patients of mine that I see in my Los Angeles office, when they come in here and they've been practicing yoga meditation for 20 years, I can tell automatically because they never look their age.
		And neither do I. I mean, you see pictures of me.
		I don't look my age either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you don't.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I don't have a picture in the attic with a snear on it either.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's done by alpha techniques.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, listen, I'm curious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As you progress somebody toward a future life, wouldn't it be possible to discern their rough date of death?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		In fact, you can get the exact date of death, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do people want to know?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it's interesting.
		A lot of them don't, of course, but inquiring minds want to know, I guess, is a way of doing it.
		What they really are more interested in is not so much the exact date, because certain things you can prevent.
		You can prevent getting hit by a car if you didn't leave your house, that day, yes.
		But you can't prevent Necessarily dying of old age or dying in your sleep at 3 o'clock in the morning in the year 2020.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then they want to know the manner.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		They want to know the manner.
		They also want to know: is this this ideal frequency?
		I mean, did they accomplish what they wanted to, even though we're all going to die at the given for the biological body?
		But the question is: if they had a better frequency and a more fulfilled life, and they left their mark to their children and to the universe on a much more positive note, wouldn't it be better to die even younger or maybe even more traumatically, if you will, than to live out a longer life and just be sort of like taking up the oxygen?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's a fascinating concept.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you been able to document the death of anybody?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
		As a matter of fact, I'll tell you a very interesting case.
		This is one where I was working with this gentleman who was an attorney from the East Coast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, hold on.
		That's a good hook.
		Let me take a break here.
		We'll be right back with Dr. Goldberg.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you what happened.
		This attorney wanted to know what his ideal future was, so he was using my progression tapes that I always give a patient when I work with him.
		And he perceived himself having his ideal future where his wife was going to die in a car accident on the Capitol Beltway in Washington in a snowy February night.
		And he said, Doctor, he says, this is a great frequency, but my wife dies.
		And I said, well, it's your choice.
		He says, well, is this like murder?
		And I said, no.
		I mean, your wife, she chooses her death.
		If that's what you want, she will choose her death.
		You don't let the brake line of a car.
		You're just progressing yourself into the future.
		Well, as it turned out, he chose that ideal future.
		And then I moved to the West Coast, and I didn't hear from him for a few years.
		And finally, he called me, and he said, you know, doctors, my wife has completely turned around.
		Everything is fine.
		I said, well, how is your wife?
		And he said, oh, well, that's one thing I have to tell you.
		She did die in February.
		This is about a year or two before that, in the Capitol Beltway on a snowy night, just like he perceived in his age progression.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Now, the question is, again, did he tell his wife about the thing?
		As a matter of fact, yes, he did.
		His wife absolutely hated me.
		She must have thought I had three sixes on my skull.
		I mean, she did not like anything to do with my work at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		She just despised it, so she just rejected everything, so it wasn't a great conversation that he had with her.
		But at the same time, on the principle here is that, believe me, I don't wish anybody's death, but remember, everybody chooses their own death.
		His wife literally chose to have that happen.
		She was informed about the situation and just ignored him.
		And as it turned out, his progression was extraordinarily accurate, and that's what happened.
		She's no longer on the earth plane in this frequency anyway.
		But here's on our preservation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would the implications be of having changed that, do you think, if he just said, oh, well, of course I don't want my wife to die, absolutely not allowed her to go out on any of those nights and had changed it?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, interestingly enough, you know, if this is a change of the space-time continuum, you would think, and that would cause major problems.
		Some people would say, but you know something, it really wouldn't.
		What would happen was that if she lived, okay, then he still would have done his thing, done his, that wouldn't have necessarily changed his other aspects of the frequency.
		And then because she lived and her thoughts would create a new reality and his thoughts would create additional realities, they would simply just make certain addendums and changes to their frequency in the space-time continuum.
		I don't think it's the same thing as if you stopped the assassination of President Kennedy or if you stopped the bombing of Hiroshima.
		Those would be a lot more significant aspects to the space-time continuum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would she, in your opinion, have died anyway within a short time?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		See, that we don't know because, you see, I don't do that.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		We don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right, I understand.
		Doctor, we've got to hold right there.
		Fascinating point, too.
		Dr. Bruce Goldberg is my guest.
		Good evening, everybody.
		You're listening to Dreamland on a Sunday night from the CBC Radio Network.
		I wish to say good evening to everybody.
		I am Art Bell.
		My guest is Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		He'll be back in a moment.
		Another facts in.
		Dear Art, Anchorage, Alaska.
		We felled it too.
		At least a six-pointer.
unidentified		P.S. Gurgle, gurgle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, a little chilled Alaskan humor there from Rocky and Pam.
		Thanks very much, folks.
		Very encouraging.
		Very positive.
		Maybe if everybody feels that way, we are doomed, according to Dr. Goldberg.
		Actually, according to Dr. Goldberg, we're not at all.
		I want to take a second out.
		We've got a pretty heavy commercial load.
		We're booked tight, actually, with a waiting list to get on this program to give you some idea of its popularity.
		Neat nine.
		Back now with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		Doctor, would changing the impending death of yourself or another be like fooling Mother Nature?
		Would it be like that?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		No, not really.
		You can't fool Mother Nature.
		You can just simply sidetrack her.
		I mean, basically, you know, technically, there are things that you can do.
		We fool Mother Nature, if you will, or try to disguise it with modern medicine.
		I mean, people live longer than they ever did before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And so that doesn't cause the space-time continuum to go into some sort of like a reverse zit here.
		I mean, people still go on.
		But let me show you, one of the things that I think both you may relate to this, as well as I'm sure your listeners will, is the idea of a lot of these events like progressions and regressions in our body experiences, et cetera, are preceded by dreams.
		In the case that was made into the movie, The Search for Grace, my new book, this was a woman who was murdered by the same man 20 times in 46 lives.
		And when she came to see me, she was getting these nightmares, these literally post-traumatic stress disorders type of nightmares of being murdered by a man looking differently, but she realized or felt it was the same person.
		When she went through all these exotic experiences and was able to remove this karmic bond, if you will, this negative karmic trait and karmic debt, if you will, and she was able to break off this relationship, just before doing that, she had dreams of herself being murdered by him in her current life, had she not have ended that relationship.
		And literally, had she not have done this, I don't take credit for this case, it's really hers.
		I only train patients to do their thing, you know.
		But she had, literally, had she not have done that, she probably would have been murdered.
		He tried to murder her on three different occasions.
		It was a very, very exotic case.
		But my point here is that she was able to change her future By having some sneak previews by dreams, but also by being able to literally raise the quality of her own soul's energy by using the very simple techniques that we use.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And interestingly, without the world coming apart.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And no earthquakes at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hate to even bring this up, but I'm going to do it.
		The O.J. trial, as you know, they talked about dreams in the OJ trial.
		He reportedly had one, and they made a big deal out of it.
		Marcia Clark, the prosecutor, said, a dream is your heart's wish or your heart's desire.
		I can't remember.
		She was quoting Disney.
		Is that what a dream is?
		What is a dream?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I tell you, Marcia Clark does not have degrees in psychology, I grant you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, she thinks she does.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Although you should see her toplist, they'll pick up the inquirer.
		But anyway, the idea.
		Are you serious?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do they have a top, topless picture of Marcia?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure, yeah.
unidentified		It's censored, but yeah, make a topic, sure.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		This is before she got her briefs.
		But the point here about dreams, what dreams are, physiologically, see, I deal with like real hard science.
		And what dreams are, when you have a dream, it doesn't matter what the theme is.
		The dream that you're having is actually a remnant of anywhere between 30 and 50 fragments of dreams.
		They really do mean nothing.
		Now, when they do actually come true, like a precognitive dream, or when you redream about a past experience that it actually documents and lays out as a past-life regression, that's fine.
		You're getting a nice scenario coming in.
		But most dreams are just absolutely nothing but, you might say the mind doodling at night.
		They really don't mean anything.
		They're not necessarily the heart's want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have said that, the random firing of synapses.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, do you think people all want to take a swan dive into some fjord?
		I mean, a lot of these dreams, which are really nothing but out-of-body experiences, are when people are floating in the air and they feel like they're going to splat on the ground, but they're never quite splat.
		You know, they just sort of like fall and they keep on falling.
		And these beautiful dreams, some of them, what about the sexual dreams?
		Does that mean that all these sexual dreams people have, they're trying to do half the county?
		I mean, you know, it's not quite, some of them are just wishful thinking, sure.
		Some of them are actual reviews of real past and future experiences.
		And some of them are nothing but a big, you might say, antipasto of just things that are going on in different levels.
		So I wouldn't sell the farm based on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Falling.
		I talked to somebody the other day, Doctor, who said, we're talking about falling dreams.
		He said, I actually have come to the point where I'll have a falling dream and I'll wake up or no, wrong.
		I'll realize midway down, actually realize that I'm dreaming.
		And in order to have the experience, I willed myself to go ahead and fall the rest of the way.
		And he said, I landed or crashed, more like it, and laughed and got up and shook myself off and woke up.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, he had now, see, now that you now change the terminology.
		Now he had a lucid dream, which means that you now know that you're dreaming, which really changes the rules now.
		The lucid dream is actually almost a somnambulistic or very deep-level hypnotic trance, is really what you're doing when you're doing that.
		But now he's changing the rules.
		See, most people, if you talk about their dreams of falling, they never splat.
		They simply, they wake up beforehand.
		Either they wake up yelling or screaming, or they just wake up and they say, you know, that was kind of pleasant, but I really wish I wasn't falling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With a start.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I usually wake up with kind of a start.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		What that is, is basically it's a conscious remnant of an out-of-body experience.
		All dreams are out-of-body experiences.
		This has been documented for nearly 40 years now.
		So basically, he now is now changing the terms by being a lucid dreamer, which is very hard to do.
		It takes a lot of training, actually, to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But wait a minute.
		You're changing the story on me midway here.
		You're saying now, first you said all dreams are basically random synapses firing.
		Now you're saying all dreams are out-of-body experiences.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're both.
		One is not necessarily a problem with the other.
		I mean, out-of-body experience simply means that when you're dreaming, the soul, the subconscious mind, the spirit, is leaving the physical body, and when it enters into it, the synapses that you're referring to, the firing of synapses and the hypothalamus and all the storage of memories, etc., are simply just retrieving what you did when you took your little trip out of the body.
		I mean, that's part of the system.
		But see, the point here is that when you, most people don't dream of splatting or landing, what they do is they simply wake up beforehand.
		He changed the rules by being a lucid dream, and now you're in a different ballgame.
		Now you're in a, you have, you add another gear to the car here, you see.
		So now he can control that dream any way he wants to.
		You know, there was a great movie called Dreamscape.
		I don't know if you remember, it came out about five or six years ago, where people would dream about actually the dreams were reality and they were dreaming about this plot to kill the president or whatever they were doing.
		It was a great movie where the dreams were actually real and they were implanting real dreams into people to do their thing.
		Of course, it was science fiction, but again, it's based upon science.
		But no, dreams are actually most people, when they die at night, those people that are old, you know, elderly or dying of natural causes, if you will, they will die in the middle of the night in the dream levels because the dream levels represent a very uptight and very tense area as compared to the unconscious mind, whereas during the waking day, the dream levels or the daydream levels of alpha or hypnosis, or simple daydreams, as you would call it, is really the more relaxing part of the day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you take somebody through regression or progression, how much of what you learn do you tell, and how much on a regular basis would you hold back?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, I hold back almost nothing because I don't have to hold back anything.
		They're telling me.
		I don't tell them.
		I'm not a psychic.
		I ask them the questions.
		It's almost like an O.J. Simpson interrogation here.
		I ask them the questions, and they say, I see, where are you?
		I'm in a carriage driving in London in 1921 with rhinestones on the boots, whatever.
		They tell me everything.
		Now, the patients who will not be able to recall, where of course I will tape those sessions when they have what we call hypnoamnesia, those are people who are in a fairly deep level of trance.
		And that's only going to be about maybe 20% of the population that will do that.
		80% minimum will have complete, absolute memories of everything that they do.
		So I don't have to withhold.
		I don't have to have past-life regression interrupt this over anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is the process that will prevent recall, do you suppose?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, there are a couple of things.
		Number one, if a person is perceiving anything that's traumatic and they don't want to recall it, just like a person will not remember, you know, if you ask most people to describe what they were like in junior high school and high school, they would probably tell you they were the captain of the football team and had 17 cheerleaders, when in fact they probably had, you know, penholders in their pocket and very thick glasses, you know?
		I mean, People have a tendency to exaggerate their background to avoid the negativity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, what leads you to believe that they would not exaggerate the existence of a past life or a future life?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, two fantasized.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, in the search for grace, this was a case where I'm not a real big person on documentation.
		I do have cases that are fairly documented over the years, but this was a case where I turned over to CBS, who then hired an independent research to look at the material.
		As it turned out, not only was the woman accurate on two dozen facts that she gave, but two of the things she reported in trans, namely her age at her death, she said she was 32 and not looking forward to her 33rd birthday, and she said the name of her son was Cliff.
		The newspaper reports said that she was 30 years old and her son's name was Chester Jr.
		As it turned out, surveying the birth and death certificates, which in New York State where this occurred, you have to get the political permission of the governor's office, and nobody could get that unless you're a family member, and this woman is far from a family member.
		As it turns out, she was right, they were wrong.
		So therefore, not only does this case document, but it documented on facts that she should have told me the false data had she just read newspaper reports.
		It now stands as one of the most documented cases of a century.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, it seems irrefutable, but again, my question, past that case, in how many cases of this sort do you suppose what you get is fanciful?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, I'll tell you, when I do the regression, I can't speak for anyone else.
		When I do a regression, I at times use what we call the federal model to make it as objective as possible.
		I'm really not particularly worried about the data because when I do check them out or I hire researchers to do that, when I don't have the time or the ability to go across the country on these things, I find a tremendous validity to it.
		I mean, whether they're dealing with the ancient continent of Atlantis or Lemuria or they're dealing with the 34th century progression on another planet, obviously unless you're real patient, you know, you're going to have to wait around for that.
		But the regressions that I get from other patients, not just Ivy, the one in the search for grace, but others, are very, very valid.
		In fact, I've had people who just used my past life regression tape.
		Here's a very interesting woman who she heard me on a radio show out of Boston and she ordered this tape and she went into a past life that took her into North Carolina in the late 1600s where she was working in a farm or plantation for cotton or whatever it was.
		And she then took a vacation, decided to check this out, went into the court records.
		And by the way, the court records on the East Coast do have inventory going back to the 1600s.
		They're actually kept on court files.
		And in fact, it turned out that the number of bushels of cotton that she read out in trance that she remembered was actually on the court records.
		And her name, the dates, the family that she had, all of that verified.
		So she literally documented her life just by playing a past life regression tape.
		And she'd never been south of the Mason Vixen line in her life.
		She was a good old New Englander from heart.
		And so here's an example of another case of people actually validating it.
		So I think the information, if properly done, we're assuming the person is a competent therapist.
		We're assuming that the patient trusts the therapist and that this isn't some sort of a game or joke and that there is, you know, the person is in a decent level of trance.
		That really isn't difficult at all.
		And I think the information properly done is extremely valid.
		So valid that not only am I, but my colleagues are, as a forensic consultant, hypnosis, age regression, just age regression, not past life, is used in all major police departments in this country.
		Every LAPD, NYP, all of them, they all have either people like me outside consultants or captains or sergeants or lieutenants or et cetera.
		People who are trained to use investigative hypnosis to go back to get data that can be corroborated in the penalty in their investigation.
		And it's done all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's remarkable.
		One of the things, again, just for a second, I can't resist on the OJ trial.
		One of the things you recall with respect to this dream, the introduction of this testimony was made possible because OJ had said to somebody, I had a dream of this, and so I think it would affect my lie detector test results.
		Would you think that to be a valid comment?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, I think that, first of all, the dream should never be, if you talk to any attorney, the dream should never be admitted.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I mean, this is going to be automatically a case for appeal against you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Traditions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do agree.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Secondly, the polygraph is not admissible either, so you have two not inadmissible things that should be inadmissible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Having said that, though.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Having said that, the dream himself, if the dream convinced him one way or another, that's one thing.
		If the dream upset him, see, the live detector, a polygraph, which of course is not admissible, only detects emotional spikes in your system.
		When you lie, you're supposed to have, you worry about it and get stressed and the BMR, the basic metabolic rate, and the heart rate and the pulse rate is supposed to go up, and that's what the live detector is measuring.
		That's all it measures.
		John Dillinger was infamous for being able to take live detector tests when it was admissible and pass them.
		And that's true.
		It's quite true.
		And ask an FBI agent.
		They'll tell you about that.
		I have former agents who work with me who told me that, and I've also read reports on that.
		He had no superego, no soul, literally.
		He could just simply lie like a trooper, didn't think he was lying, or he could just get away with it.
		So if anything, if he dreamt about his old TV series being canceled, anything that would upset him, then that would make the live detector, of course, spike and jump and make him sound like he was lying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he was really right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, he was right, of course, but it didn't have to be the dream.
		He could have just gone over one of his games where he only gained 20 yards against the Dolphins in 1972.
		That could have done it, too.
		It could have been anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I also take it, by the way, that somebody who could consistently pass a lie detector test and lie successfully could have a session with Dr. Goldberg and come away having fooled you.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know something?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I've thought of that myself, and a pathological liar or maybe a paranoid schizophrenic who's very good at that, it hasn't happened yet, but it did happen to a colleague of mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		The man, do you know the book Abduction by John Mack?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I talked to Dr. Mack not long ago here on the air, so yes, I know all about that.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was a case that apparently got by him, and I don't know the details of that particular situation, but I have never run into that.
		I mean, I've been on so many television shows with patients of mine, radio and TV shows, that if anybody was trying to dupe me, or whether it be one of these organizations like a certain one in Buffalo, New York, that we both, I'm sure, know very well, who like to plant people in places like that or research laboratories to try to say, oh, guess what?
		This is a magician, and the whole thing's a scam, you know.
		But I have never had that.
		I've been doing this for over 20 years, and boy, I'll tell you, I'm a real target.
		If anybody wants to try to do that, boy, you know, I mean, I'm very public with this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly what I was thinking.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I've never had that problem, but then again, whether it's good karma or whether it's simply the fact that I really do feel that with hypnosis and with proper techniques, it really would be tough.
		I think I could detect the liar or somebody who's trying to fake it in a New York Minute.
		Because I've had one occasion where a husband of a wife I was working with who was trying to corroborate a past live tie, and he was just trying to patronize his wife.
		And, of course, I saw him separately, and he did try to fudge it.
		And I said, look, I said, I know what you're trying to do here.
		And I really don't appreciate it.
		He said, how'd you know, Doc?
		And I said, it's my job to know, you know.
		So this was not exactly the good way to prepare for Valentine's Day, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Fascinating.
		Well, we're off on a fascinating track.
		And what I would like to do shortly is open the telephone lines, maybe out at the bottom of the hour here, and allow people to ask you questions.
		I didn't realize you knew so much about dreams.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, well, you see, you have to in this field.
		Remember, my background is with my medical background with a dental degree, and of course, a lot of intensive study in neurology here.
		Dreams are nothing but hypnosis interspersed between the unconscious dream cycle, the sleep cycle.
		So if you do this field, if you do what I do and don't know a lot about dreams, then you're really sort of like in the wrong ballpark here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you produce, in other words, in a hypnotic trance, can you, in effect, produce a dream?
unidentified		Well, a hypnotic trance is a daydream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is a daydream.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		So basically, the only difference is the person doesn't snore usually, and that the fact that they're interspersing the hypnotic level with the conscious mind proper or willpower or beta brainwave level, whereas at night, the nocturnal dream, or what we call the regular dream, is going to be interspersed with the theta and delta of the unconscious mind.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		That's the only difference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One last OJ question, then I'm done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know you deal with obsessive, compulsive people.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And my take on the OJ thing has been that he was obsessive and compulsive about her, and that she may have broken the straw of the camel by a little bit of taunting.
		I mean, you taunt an obsessive, compulsive person, and you may well push them over the edge.
		Is that a reasonable take?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It's a reasonable take, but you see, what you're doing here is you're making the same assumption that a lot of people both in and out of the media do, and they assume that he's guilty, and that still isn't something that has been demonstrated yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, with the amount of evidence I calculate he is either A, guilty, or B, was framed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No other answer seems very likely.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I agree with that, too.
		But my point here is that he was definitely obsessed.
		he was obsessed with his football career.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you talk to any of his fellow athletes, We're at the bottom of the hour.
		But basically, you gave me the answer I wanted.
		Thank you very much.
		Dr. Goldberg, back in a flash.
		If you're listening to Dreamland.
unidentified		Top 102.
		This hour of Art Bell was recorded for rebroadcast at this time.
		Please do not call.
		All right, we're about to open the phone line, so listen carefully.
		From the Kingdom of Nine, we continue with your calls on Dreamland with Art Bell.
		Call Art Now, toll-free, at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-TALK.
		First time callers, Area Code 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Or the wildcard line at Area Code 702-727-1295.
		727-1295 in the 702 area code.
		Now again, here's our bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now again, here I am.
		The number given the 800 number was for west of the Rockies.
		That's 1-800.
		1-800-let's see, 618-8255.
		I confuse myself.
		1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies.
		It's 1-800-825-5033.
		East of the Rockies.
		1-800-825-5033.
		And in just a moment, back to Dr. Goldberg and your calls coming up.
		Fascinating topic.
		We're going to try to go through several questions quickly.
		I've got several faxes, and they're relevant.
		Okay.
		Art, one question posed on other programs, my programs, is, when you die, should you go to the light or the dark?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You always go to the light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Always go to the light.
		White light.
		We had somebody who came on the air and troubled me greatly and said, the light is a trick, go to the darkness.
		And then, let's see, when your guest talked about parallel dimensions, are we each on a different dimension as individuals, or are we all in the same dimension?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's an infinite number of universes, as we call it out there, but you and your family and the people that we're talking to right now are on a certain parallel universe.
		So we are on the same one.
		However, there are plenty of others out there too, and if you're able to see those, which you could do with progression techniques, then you can be programmed and switched to your ideal path.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art, the soul only leaves the body at what is called death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When we project out of body, we are extending our consciousness to a point or place, a point or place, and the soul stays in the body.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's really not true.
		Your soul leaves the body a lot, actually.
		It leaves it during the dream levels.
		That's three hours a night.
		It leaves it through the four hours that you spend in daydreams or hypnotic levels during the waking day.
		So the soul is out of the body for seven hours out of every 24-hour cycle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's go to the phones.
		I promised.
		Call the wild card lines, area 702-727-1295.
		Okay, let's try it again.
		Rod, we don't allow last names on the air.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So let's just say this is Rod.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, Rod?
unidentified		This is Rod calling from Round Lake Beach.
unidentified		From Illinois?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Illinois.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Okay.
		Yeah.
		I had a dream.
		I was wondering if Dr. Gold would understand this.
		Now, I'm a paranoia schizophrenic.
		Yeah.
		And I have these out-of-body experiences.
		I have them every night.
		I go into these deep meditations.
		And what I dreamt was that I had this girlfriend and I was walking under these power lines by my home and my pants started to glow and they were like under a black light.
		I seen three gold statues coming out of the sky.
		One of them was me, one of them was my sister, one of them was my brother.
		I came down and I got bigger.
		As they got bigger and they got closer, they got bigger, I could walk and meditate at the same time.
		I was dark out.
		The sun had been down for a couple hours and my girlfriend wanted a dollar for some smokes.
		I said, no, I had $700 in my pocket.
		She went to the top of the hill.
		I was at the bottom.
		Everything got foggy and white.
		Now, as it got foggy, the only way I could tell my way home was by the trees.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we're almost out of time.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, basically, Rod, the fact that you gave me a history of paranoid schizophrenia is a problem in the sense that the actual mechanisms of your brains functioning with the dream is going to be a little bit distorted than others.
		However, these dreams mean whatever they mean to you.
		Remember that these are fragments of 30 to 50 different dreams.
		It sounds like you're trying to make sense out of it.
		And what I'm saying is that enjoy the dream or go on with your life and don't put a lot of faith in it.
		All it is, is just a dream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you say paranoia, schizophrenia, would modify the way that...
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		The fact that the way he fires his synapses and the way he interprets things and the way he even acts behaviorally will be affected because of the syndrome itself because it is a psychotic behavior.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		So therefore, what that means is that the mind levels in the dream levels are also going to be off on more, shall we say, exotic levels than people who don't have that particular syndrome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
		West of the Rockies, you're on with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is John from San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, John.
unidentified		I got a question for Dr. Golud.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Goldberg.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It's Goldberg, and welcome from the OGO.
unidentified		I apologize.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Sorry.
unidentified		I have a question about nightmarish dreams.
unidentified		The question is that when someone has a nightmarish dream one night and wake up the next morning having this nightmarish dream continue on and on and on and on until it becomes a memory at times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute, Caller, I have a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you say continues on, you have the same dream again or the dream actually continues where it left off?
unidentified		Well, what this dream I had in a nightmarish dream is that it happened in a nighttime and it has to do with things with the Army.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I repeat, Caller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't need to know the content of the dream, but does it continue or does it repeat?
unidentified		It repeats itself over and over and over like a memory.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now this is very important.
		The repetition of the dream is one of the ways your subconscious mind, or your soul, as we call it, is trying to tell you that you haven't dealt with something.
		That's the key here.
		When you resolve something, for example, you're talking about something that happened in the earlier part of this life.
		You mentioned the army.
		I assume you were in the army?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Okay.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Now, there was something about that dream that you did not deal with or that is representing something that you didn't deal with, and that's why you're having this little sort of like alarm clock going off.
		Whatever that is, that needs to be dealt with.
		Once that is dealt with, you will no longer have those dreams.
		In my particular specialty, when people come to see me and have past life dreams, some of them are very violent endings, when we go through the experiences and when they learn to raise their soul's energy by what we call cleansing techniques, which they're also partially trained to use via tapes, then they no longer have the dreams, just like Ivy in the search for grace, she no longer had the dreams of being murdered once she realized who Johnny was and once she was able to overcome that obsession and that attraction to him.
		So you need to deal with this, is what I'm saying.
unidentified		But Doctor, would this help be like in an aggression sort of hypnosis to bring out what this jury was?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		It would help you to find out what it is, but more importantly, interestingly enough, that isn't even that important.
		What's important here is that this is a little complicated, but your soul's energy where you're functioning right now is compromised, which is why you're vulnerable to those dreams.
		Once you raise the soul's energy, you don't even have to understand the content.
		You will automatically be able to rise above the issue, just like building up your immune system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		However, you're going to make the same parallel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's just like the immune system then.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Right, it's exactly the same thing.
		It's the energy immune system, actually.
		So, but the point is, in your case, I think because you seem to be more intellectually involved with this and want to know what's going on, the laying this out in an age regression would be a way of having you lay out the complete scenario.
		Once that's done, you'll never have those dreams again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		Hello, where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		I'm calling from Kenosha, Wisconsin.
unidentified		My name is Renzel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I was wondering, well, I have these dreams, but I wake up.
		I feel like I slept.
		I sleepwalked.
		That's how vivid it is.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Right?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Do you find yourself actually in different physical positions, like in a different room when you come out of these dreams?
unidentified		No.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay, because you actually can sleepwalk even as an adult.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It's rare, but it does happen.
unidentified		Well, the dream, I come back to the bed, and it's a recurring dream.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But do you have other people where you live that might have testified whether you actually did walk and leave?
unidentified		No, I don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		All right.
		I'll add something.
		Doctor, my younger sister did exactly that when she was young.
		It was absolutely frightening.
		She would get up in the middle of the night and she would walk.
		By the way, whatever she was dressed in, she would walk.
		It was really eerie and really scary.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And a few times she walked right out of the house and down the street.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But I'll bet she grew out of that as she grew older.
		She did, yes.
		Now, most people will grow out of it.
		However, some people have other remnants of that.
		For example, I used to date this young lady who would call me at 3 o'clock in the morning.
		Sometimes I was actually up.
		And she wouldn't have any idea what the call was about.
		She would talk, very intelligent, she was very bright, she was very articulate, and she would say, listen, I'll see you tomorrow.
		And then I would say, gee, how come you call me at 3 o'clock?
		And she goes, I didn't call you at 3 o'clock.
		I swear I didn't call you.
		She would swear in a Bible that she'd be called.
		And in fact, she did.
		So this is a form of an adult form of somnambulism, as they would call it.
		But basically, these deeper dreams, is there something else you're trying to make out?
		Obviously, you're having very deep dreams.
		I don't doubt that.
		But is there anything else going on that, I mean, you would know if you slept, walk, because you would have like your feet would be dirty or you'd be cold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd have physical signs.
		Right.
		Yeah.
		Okay.
		Let's move on.
		You're on the air coast to coast with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		Good evening.
		No, you're not.
		Let's see.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Lost in a dream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's Lost in a Dream.
		Dr. Bruce Goldberg is my guest, and you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, hi.
		I like to know like I always have dreams about God talking to me.
		So what is that?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It's like it's really God talking to me.
		Most likely, it's one of two things.
		We call this your higher self or your superconscious mind, and the other is what are called masters and guides.
		Those are the two most likely candidates.
		The problem is, is that when you have this higher energy or perfect being, if you will, communicate with you, most people will assume it's either God or Jesus or whatever their belief system is, and usually that's not the case.
unidentified		Is not?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		So isn't we all trying to go up to the highest to get to the heavens?
unidentified		Right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		The problem is that you see, unfortunately, I explained this more in my older book, Tasklight Visualize, which has a complete dissertation about the different plane concepts.
		We're on the earth plane.
		This is the lowest of five planes that make up the karmic cycle.
		Therefore, the 13th plane is what you would call the God plane, or heaven, nirvana, whatever you want to call it.
		There's no communication between the God plane or manifestations and the earth plane.
		All you can get are what's on the lower five planes.
		Now, you can, however, access your higher self, which is you in your perfect form, or you can access a master or guide, which is somebody that you've probably known in past lives who has perfected themselves, but instead of going on to the God plane or the higher planes, has decided to stay around and help you and others to perfect themselves.
		But there's no real documentation or way we can even metaphysically, let alone scientifically, show that a person is actually contacting God.
		Their higher self or masters and guides are far more logical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so we are on the lowest plane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just as a matter of curiosity, when there is an apparition, when there is a ghost or a spirit, or whatever it is that people call these things that appear, and it appears here on earth, is it in effect slumming?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Slumming, did you say?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Slumming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, I mean, there are times when, for example, I had a woman I just saw from Norby, California, who was actually being tempered.
		She was influenced by the spirit of her late husband in a previous life who was actually trying to dominate her and causing her all kinds of problems with her current husband, as well as drinking all kinds of other things.
		And all it was was an attempt at a past life possession, which of course doesn't work very well.
		But sure, there are entities that float around.
		There are no real demons or evil spirits per se.
		What there are are poltergeists or ghosts or astral bodies, as we call them, that simply have not reincarnated, and they simply hang around.
		Sometimes they annoy people.
		Sometimes they just simply are wandering and troubled spirits.
		But you made a comment before, which ties into this, which I want to reinforce again.
		This is a very serious one.
		When you said that, I don't know who it was, and I don't really want to know who it was, but that person who said that when you see the white light, go to the darkness, that's a real, I mean, if anybody has had that experience, if anybody has anybody tell them that, please call me at my 1-800-CARMA4U number or 1-800-527-6248, I want to speak to you immediately.
		That is the worst possible advice anybody could ever give you.
		The white, it always represents purity.
		If you look around with rituals and all kinds of techniques, white is always pure.
		Even white magic, which I really have a problem with anyway, but at least they use the term white in that aspect.
		But whenever somebody says go to the darkness, boy, that is the worst possibility.
		When a person has a near-death experience, they will always, almost always, anyway, remember this, they will always be surrounded by a white light.
		They will go to a white light, and the white light will be the way their sort of like escalator, if you will, to the higher, to the soul plane before they reincarnate.
		So white light is very, very, very important.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad you told me that, Doctor, because it was me that was told that on the air, and of course, along with everybody else, and it has troubled me for years.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Well, it's something that to me, had you not, and I'm glad you brought it up because people actually do that.
		They give that kind of advice.
		Usually the person giving that advice either doesn't know anything or more importantly is that they're trying to get people into the other aspects like negative projection techniques, black arts, voodoo, hoodoo, you name it.
		There are so many problems like that around what IPAS because I work with people to deprogram them from these influences.
		And white is always, you'll never lose with white.
		When somebody sees an aura and they see a white, golden or yellow or orangey kind of aura, that's positive and pure.
		When they see a grayish or blackish overtone, that person's in trouble.
		Usually they're dying or something is occurring that is not really metaphysically positive here.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		My name is Saul.
		I love you.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just give us your first name and where you're calling from.
unidentified		I'm calling from Rossville, Illinois.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Hi, this is Dr. Goldberg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can I help you?
unidentified		Well, yes, I was wondering, well, you know how all science fact has proven that the Bible basically is wrong?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you say the Bible is wrong, I don't know what you specifically mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean, Cole?
unidentified		Yeah.
		Well, people would listen to this show and think that you're evil.
		They don't.
		In church, they say that aliens aren't real.
		Et cetera, et cetera, you know.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, you have to understand, you know, to me, I don't like the word wrong here.
		I prefer that everybody's entitled to their belief system.
		And the Bible, of course, has made certain predictions which are supposed to occur in the next four or five years.
		And those will be either right or wrong.
		I can tell you that.
		And I can tell you that they're not going to happen.
		But basically, you have to determine your own faith.
		See, the spiritual aspects of metaphysics really fit very nicely in any form of religion, if you want to call it that, if you will.
		But to me, the point is not what you believe in, not whether you're Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Islamic or whatever it is, is what you do with it.
		And the do unto others is really a karmic principle, not just a Christian principle.
		So I don't think it's incompatible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but doctor, a lot of Christians out there would say the things you deal with, regressions, progressions, you talk of spirits, you talk of spirit levels, and all of that, to the average Christian is evil stuff.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, but so did Jesus talk about that, and so did the apostles.
		I mean, spirits have been around forever, and the idea of Easter coming up, you know, if you will, is nothing but reincarnation.
		So, I mean, it's a question of, I think, the names that we give it, and maybe I come across, you know me very well, I come across from this from a very scientific perspective.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And to me, it's a clinical discipline.
		So to me, although I do agree and believe in the theory because I've tested it clinically myself, however, my bottom line as a therapist in Los Angeles here is that patients come to me because they have real issues, habits, phobias, they're victims of negative projection techniques, they have all kinds of things from sexual dysfunction to various forms of psychosomatic issues.
		And using these techniques and energy cleansing techniques, which by the way are backed by hard science, simply helps them to resolve issues, to grow, to empower themselves, which is my main point here, is having people become independent of drugs and of people like me even, therapists, is to go on with their lives.
		And to me, hey, if that's evil, then, you know, sign me up for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
unidentified		I'm sorry.
unidentified		The line is not too great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, where are you calling from?
unidentified		Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oregon, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your question?
unidentified		Last week I had my first aggression to work on a specific issue.
unidentified		But instead, I found myself as a light being on Alpha Centauri.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And I was very surprised about it.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now you bring up something very, very interesting.
		In my older book, Past Lives, Future Lives, there's a chapter called Bob and the Light People.
		What you're describing is what we call a light people regression, in which instead of being in a physical body, you are in pure energy, namely light.
		This is a very relatively rare occurrence.
		It's about maybe 3 to 5% of my regressions.
		And my guess is that the information that you were trying to attain was probably very difficult to get, was it not?
unidentified		Yeah.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		A light people regression is actually a very almost like a sensor type of regression.
		It's very difficult to get.
		But this is, you are not paranoid schizophrenic here or psychologically disturbed because of this.
		If anything, what you're experiencing is potentially a very therapeutic experience.
		I don't know how experienced the therapist that you were working with was in dealing with light people.
		This is not something that everybody has in their argumentarium.
		But it's got tremendous potential.
		The problem is, when I used to practice dentistry, this would be like taking out an impacted wisdom tooth.
		It's a very difficult situation to get data from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, what, um, I'm sorry, we're very short on time, about 20 seconds.
		What are the who are the light people?
		What are you talking about?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		The light people basically are extraterrestrials, if you will, who actually came to the Earth and actually created the karmic cycle.
		What they did was they inhabited the physical body of man before there was Homo sapiens and actually did a lot of nasty things which caused them to be trapped in the physical body, namely their energy.
		And that's why we have a karmic cycle.
		And Alfred Tretorium, among others, is considered to be one of the sources.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's it.
		We're out of time for this hour.
		We'll be back with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		Boy, I'm glad I've asked.
		We'll come back and talk more about the light people in a moment.
		This is CBC.
unidentified		CBC.
		55-1-800-618-8255.
		First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
		Or the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		This is the CBC, Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed, it is.
		Sunday night, Dreamland underway.
		East of the Rockies, east of Buckies only.
		It's 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		Facts from Sam P. I want to comment on this from the doctor.
		Hi, Art.
		I had an interesting dream that the doctor may be able to help explain.
		For many years, I've suffered from migraine headaches.
		A few months ago, I had a headache that lasted for two or three days.
		The pain from this headache was in a small area just above my left eye.
		my dream was of a shaman he passed his hands over my face until he found the area that my pain The finger stopped short of my face, but a great force of energy hit the area of my pain.
		He repeated it five or six times.
		When I awoke, my pain was gone, and I've not had a headache in the area since.
		The dream was very vivid, and I felt the pain when the energy force hit me.
		Can the doctor give any insight?
		That's Ray from Santee.
		Doctor?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I love that fact.
		That's great.
		It just shows the power of the energy that the mind can create.
		This is what I talked about.
		If you don't think about earthquakes and negative things, then you don't really make that happen.
		But if you do start worrying about it, you can create it.
		What he did was in the dream levels, which is where almost all of the therapy that I train the patient to do occurs, there you have your subconscious mind accessing your higher self, or what we call the superconscious mind.
		There are no defense mechanisms around to annoy it and to waste time and to cause interferences.
		He can access his masters and guides along with his higher self.
		That shaman image could have been either a master or a guide or his own higher self projecting beautiful, perfect, positive energy, a white light kind of energy, not a dark light, at him and literally raise up his physiology, if you will, by causing a constriction of the blood vessels, which is needed to make the headache literally go away.
unidentified		This is beautiful.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		In fact, I have a headache tape that my corporation markets, which helps people use these simple techniques to help project that positive energy.
		And he did it naturally by himself.
		And I think that is great.
		That is absolutely perfect.
		And what he just did was show the principle of empowerment.
		It's a great fact, so I'm glad he got the results.
		And what he did just there, anyone can do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		All right.
		Before we get back to the lines, which we're going to do, I don't want to leave the light people.
		I want to understand the light people.
		One more time, please.
unidentified		Okay.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Now, the light people, remember, evolutionary-wise, the ultimate evolution of our species or of our being is really pure energy.
		The physical body is gorky on its best day.
		So, you know, they say in a couple of hundred years we won't have fingers and toes because of the clothes that we wear and things like that.
		Well, the light people represent, going back literally a couple of million years ago in regressions that I've done, I've had these light people come up over various periods of time from places like Alpha Centauri and other systems, other galaxies.
		And what these people were, they were pure energy beings, extraterrestrials, if you will, who had no physical body.
		They came to the Earth and have been coming many, many times, apparently.
		And what they did was they decided to play and say, you know, it would be kind of nice to occupy that nice physical body of a human being just to see what it's like.
		To feel the emotions, to almost like, just like anything else.
		And that is apparently one of the theories that I put forth in Past Lives, Future Lives, my older book, because I've had a lot of clinical evidence to support that.
		That these people, they came here and they took over the body and instead of just playing with it and just experiencing it, they misused the physical body.
		And that originally is how the karmic cycle was created, apparently.
		And I've done literally hundreds and hundreds of these light people regressions over the years since I've done over 30,000 of them.
		And this matter, this parent, this material comes up over and over again.
		The chapter in Past Lives Visual Lives called Bob and the Light People is a perfect example of how that manifested and how this man's energy, frequency, vibration, or rate was reduced when he entered the physical body and how he had to work his way out of it in order to perfect himself, which of course he wasn't when he saw me.
		And this is an example of light people regressions occur in between 3% to 5% of the regressions.
		If anybody does this a lot, they're going to have these come up.
		And this is one of the explanations as the extraterrestrial origin of all of us.
		So technically, none of us are purebred.
		We're all extraterrestrial in our energy and our origin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When somebody is possessed, you remember Linda Blair?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Certainly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The exorcist is a good piece of it.
		That's right.
		But there are real possessions or what seem to be real possessions.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's happening?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is that?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, what that is, again, as I mentioned before, what it is, is a, let's assume that you are an entity, you die, you clinically die, and instead of reincarnating, maybe you die traumatically, physical illness or a car accident or something like that.
		So what you're doing is now you're a troubled spirit.
		You don't want to enter into that white light because, like some People have said before, you know, some people say, oh, the white light evil, that's dangerous.
		Satan's behind it, you know.
		It's almost like the Saturday Night Live church buddy routine here, you know.
		Well, what happens here is that so people don't enter the white light.
		Now they hang around as a poltergeist or a troubled spirit, and then they say, you know, I don't really want to be this way.
		Well, there's a body over there.
		Maybe it's a loved one.
		Maybe it's someone they knew.
unidentified		Maybe it just isn't.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Maybe you're just in the way.
		And they simply kind of attach themselves to you just like a parasite would be hooked up into your intestinal tract.
		And they stay with you until they're exorcised away.
		Now, exorcism really doesn't work very well, interestingly enough, but super conscious mind taps that I've done with patients, like this woman I described in Northern California, who was able to literally exorcise away, if you will, or cleanse away this attachment of a man that she knew in a past life who, by the way, murdered her and got away with it about 150 years ago.
		You see, and he was still trying to control her from the proverbial grave.
		And these possessions are simply entities trying to attach for various reasons, usually not very good ones, but they're not necessarily evil spirits.
		They're just simply troubled spirits.
		It's almost like you go to a city and you don't know where you are and you're lost.
		And instead of just trying to find out where you are, you kind of like prevent other people from getting to work on time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got you.
		All right.
		Easter the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
		I want to ask a question about Centauri and Delight People, but first I want to find out, since listening to the program Gore and Michael Scallion the other night, how can you not think about earthquakes?
		It's like saying, you know, don't think about a purple elephant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can think about it all you want to.
		I'm just telling you that my patients tell me, I'm not a psychic, I'm a therapist.
		I get information.
		I'm like a reporter.
		My patients tell me that by the end of the century, which is only five years away, there will be no major earthquakes in Southern California.
		I'm talking about Southern California because my patients, although they're international, a lot of my local patients are freaking out when they see those network shows about this or the scallion and other kinds of predictions.
unidentified		What I'm just saying is that my patients tell me, think about it.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		My patients tell me that there is not going to be that catastrophe in the limit.
		Yes, there'll be earthquakes, but they won't be the major ones that make Nebraska, the west coast of the United States, that some people perceive.
		That is not going to happen.
		I'll tell you right now, I'll stake my reputation on it.
		And I didn't move to Los Angeles from the East Coast just because I want to be in the middle of the Pacific Ocean somewhere.
		So what I'm saying is that you can think of anything you want to, but if you project the positivity and ignore all these doom days, it's almost like predicting seven of the last three recessions.
		You can always say negative things, but the point is that you're only sending out the wrong kind of energy.
		It's not going to help you, yet it can harm you by allowing yourself to be part of a negative frequency where these things will occur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Carler, you had a question about the white people?
unidentified		Yes, it seems like I was wondering what you thought of Charlotte McLean's writing.
unidentified		It seems I think she wrote about light people.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, Charlotte McLean really wrote about, you know, driving in Peru with no hands, too.
		But Charlotte McLean brought a lot of people into the field, and I thank her for that.
		However, her writings really weren't dealing with light people so much as the classic out-of-body experience that she experienced in the Andes in South America.
		And basically, what she was doing was reporting things that other people have reported.
		So there really isn't anything new or unusual about Sharlene McLean's experience, except that it happened to Sholen McLean, you're not a skeptic about her writing.
		I'm not a protagonist about her.
		She's not a scientist.
		She's entitled to her opinions.
		She can write anything she wants to.
		Basically, her books are nothing more than metaphysical diaries, basically.
		And she's entitled to it.
		I mean, she's not Kenneth Wringle, Michael Sabaum, or Ray Moody, I can tell you that.
		And I don't respect some of the comments that she's made.
		For example, she once made a comment in a Playboy interview, which I read, which says that the crystals that were the source of energy, by the way, on Atlantis, and I'll agree with that for my regressions, are used on NASA space capsules.
		Let me tell you something.
		I work with NASA scientists.
		Some of them are patients of mine.
		There are no crystals on our space modules.
		None.
		None whatsoever.
		So statements like that are incorrect.
		They make the field, shall we say, laughable, and it does not help the credibility of the field.
		However, if you look at the good points about what she's done by bringing the numbers of people into the field via, I think the sales of all metaphysical books or New Age books in those days in the early 80s, something like increased by 35% after her bestseller of Out of the Lymph came out.
		So in that case, God bless her for that.
		But she's not exactly somebody I refer to when I write a scientific article.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		First time call her line.
		You're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
		Hello.
		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you calling from?
unidentified		Oh, I'm calling from Seattle.
unidentified		My name's Linda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Linda.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Linda.
unidentified		Hi.
		I was wondering, in your research, do people in their past lives, do they have different genders or even like in Hinduism, are they different species?
		Is there any learning reason for that?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I don't regress people to different species.
		Transmigration, if you're referring to the Tibetan and Hindu aspect, has never been confirmed by me.
		I've done over 30,000 regressions in over 10,000 patients, and I've never regressed anyone to be ahead of lettuce yet.
		Everybody's always human.
		Some people are more human than others, however.
		But what I'm saying is that so, but they do change sexes.
		You change races.
		You change socioeconomic status.
		You reincarnate and choose the karmic sub-cycle, if you will, that will help you to manifest your own spiritual growth.
		That is the only point of being on the earth plane and being in a reincarnated body is spiritual growth.
		Everything else is secondary or tertiary.
		So if you have to be black or Asian or white or American Indian or South American Indian, whatever, whatever you have to be is what you'll be and that's what you will choose the framework.
		However, you always have free will and therefore you can make poor choices, which unfortunately a lot of people do, and that's why they run into the karmic problems that they do and have the proverbial karmic egg on the faces sometimes, the answer that they do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		West of the Rockies, you're on with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Tim calling from Portland, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Tim.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Tim.
unidentified		And I guess we're having the worst snow in 25 years here today, so.
		Wow.
		Which isn't much for a lot of the part of the country, but northwest we don't get a lot.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It keeps you listening to the radio, however.
unidentified		Yes, at home warm and listening to the radio.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		What's your question, Tim?
unidentified		I've got two things.
		One is how do I find a good person in the area for regression?
		And the second is Sometimes I'll be asleep and I'll just wake up like bolt upright and just wondering what causes that.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, let me answer the first one first.
		I can't make referrals.
		There are a couple of pages in the back of my new book, The Search for Grace, as well as Past Life Specialize, which give some recommendations.
		I can give you some more material if you contact my 1-800-CARMAR4U or 1-800-527-6248 number.
		My staff will be happy to send you information, which will make your choice a little bit easier by giving you some background.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you hold it, hold it, hold it.
		You're so good at talking 100 miles an hour, you've got to slow down for phone numbers.
		Okay.
		So do it.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		1-800-527-6248.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		All right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Now, what that will do is that will give you a little background.
		I will send you out a packet which will tell you some of the things a little bit about the field.
		And what you would do is take that information, read it over, and then you quiz anybody who alleges themselves to be a past life therapist.
		If they don't know that material, if they don't know the basics, then you don't want to be there.
		You always want to work with somebody who knows more than you, you know, in the field.
		As far as waking up bolt-like upright, that is most likely from a dream, which, again, can have fantasy components, or it could actually be an actual past-life death of yours that you could be reviewing, or it could be simply you returning from the out-of-body experience that all dreams are.
		You know, when you return from an out-of-body experience, it's almost like parachuting.
		And sometimes you land on your butt, you know, and sometimes you roll over and land like you're supposed to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So sort of whoosh I'm back.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Right, wish you're back, and sometimes I wish I wasn't back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cute.
		East of the Rockies, you're on with Dr. Goldberg.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good evening, gentlemen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you?
unidentified		This is Jim in St. Louis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Jim.
unidentified		Dr. Goldberg, what can you tell us about your patients' progressions and their what do they know about the day when we will finally be confronted with these non-human intelligence that have been visiting us for so long and where exactly our place in the universe?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about the extraterrestrial contact then.
unidentified		Yeah, right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, basically, if you're looking for the extraterrestrials to hold a press conference at the UN very quickly, it's not going to happen.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It's about the 24th century when the extraterrestrials make the regular contact that will make them a part of our society.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know that?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, because that's what patients tell me.
		I mean, in Past Life Future Lives, I document about the next 500 years, and in the 24th century, apparently it becomes more of what you might see on old Twilight episodes to the degree that they become literally a part of our society.
		We make a lot of travels to other planets.
		We have exchanges, scientific exchanges.
		We do all kinds of things that become more of a regular basis.
		But the contacts, we're still going to have many contacts, as we do now occasionally, but they're not going to be the regularity.
		It's still going to be the people that think of it as fringy or the scientists or the government trying to repress the information, the usual things that the Pentagon types do, but you're not going to have the regular, regular contact until the 24th century.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that our government now knows they exist?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		Are you kidding?
		I mean, between the, I mean, if the incidents in New Mexico don't scare people or in Area 51, or I mean, I mean, the government cover-ups and the Rosswell incident, and I mean, this is, it almost makes me ashamed to be an American, you know, I mean, and I'm very patriotic.
		I work with people who retire from the government, of course.
		I don't work with active agents, but I work with people who've been involved in it.
		Let me tell you something.
		The government has so many things that they could tell and will not because they're afraid of a panic, which I think right now is about non-existence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll give you this, Doctor.
		If our government was able to keep secret the fact that they fed radiation in milk to six-year-old children, they could certainly keep the other secret.
		Oh, sure.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, they could always simply, what they've done is they could simply just do what they did.
		I'll tell you one thing.
		The government was very bright.
		I mean, I'm not very ethical, but very bright.
		What they did was they fed the news releases to the media and encouraged Hollywood with the 50s movies, you know, the old Space Brothers routine, because they figured the more they make fun of it via Hollywood, the more money's made off of it, the less people are going to take it seriously.
		And in fact, they were correct.
		Now, of course, they lost because now there's so much evidence cropping up and Linda Howe's reports and others and the idea of things surfacing in people's experiences.
		When you have ex-presidents who talk about their UFO experiences, you know, what do you do now?
		You know, did you say it was all swamp gas in Atlanta?
		I mean, you know, you can't keep the old scams going anymore.
		So now people are getting a lot more sophisticated, and there are simply too many cases and too much evidence piling up.
		But again, apparently our society isn't ready for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You sound a lot more sure these days to me of this sort of thing than you were when I first began interviewing you long ago, Doctor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that true?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, it's only been a couple of years, a year and a half or so, but I'm just starting to see as far as, I mean, I don't have any doubt.
		I've never doubted the extraterrestrial contact, if you will, because of my work going back over 20 years, and I have cases of extraterrestrial contact going back about 17 or 18 years ago.
		What I have been more acquainted with with some of my more recent patients have been simply the extent of the government cover-up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we've got to hold it right there.
		Hold it right there.
		Dr. Bruce Goldberg is my guest.
unidentified		This is CBC.
		This Hour of Art Bell was recorded for rebroadcast at this time.
		Please do not call.
		We continue now with your calls to Dreamland with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We do.
		I'm Art Bell.
		I want to remind everybody trying to get hold of the scallion tape.
		It's been irreversibly busy at the phone number that we've been giving you.
		I will continue to give you this number.
		If you cannot get through tonight, by all means, during business hours tomorrow, we're going to staff the phones with people, and you should be able to get through.
		So begin trying during business hours tomorrow at 1-800-917-4278.
		That's 1-800-917-4278.
		At that number, you can also get copies of this Program and any guest interview we've done on Coast.
		We'll get to yet another very interesting facts in just a moment.
		All right, about three years ago, my mother died.
		Shortly after, I had an awake experience.
		That's awake.
		I dreamt that she was sitting on a bed at my father's house.
		All my family members walked past her, but I stopped.
		I could even smell like fresh flowers.
		I could smell her like fresh flowers.
		I had such a calm feeling over me.
		All she did was project into me that she was okay and that I, and my future was going to be fine, and not to worry.
		She really impressed me with the fact that everything was going to be fine.
		I have since then sensed her presence near or about me on several occasions.
		Doctor?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		What you're getting is your mother, your late mother, was trying to tell you that she is okay on the other side, and she was trying to see people when they cross into spirit, they tend to make contacts with people they felt the closest to, or let us say, a very strong bond.
		And what she was just trying to show you is that there is life after death.
		It's nothing to fear.
		And she was also trying to give you a little precognitive doubt about your future, as well as to have you say, really, basically, is like, please don't worry about me.
		Don't bereve me.
		Go on with your life, and you have a bright life in front of you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do your colleagues, a lot of them, think about your view on all of this?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, my colleagues, interesting enough, a lot of my patient referrals come from my colleagues.
		So I have psychiatrists, psychologists, MFCC social workers who refer to me.
		The ones that may not agree with me or don't have my experience and deal with more conventional methods, if you will, they know me well enough to know that they may not agree with me, but they don't doubt my psychological stability or my approach towards it.
		They just may not agree with me, just like they have a First Amendment right and a right to have a different opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is, however, a lot more building respect for people now in your field than there used to be, isn't there?
unidentified		Oh, sure.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, you have like, you know, you have people like Ray Moody and John Mack, who are physicians.
		You have myself.
		You have Kenneth Ring, a psychologist, University of Connecticut.
		You have people, the Elizabeth Kubler-Rosses, and you have many people with real degrees and a lot to lose.
		See, we have a lot to lose if we're doing something strange.
		With all due respect to people like the Shirley McLane's or other actresses who write books, they don't really have a tremendous amount to lose when it comes to licenses and the practices and things like that, whereas we as professionals do.
		More importantly, what's really important on my level here, I feel, is not just my own credibility and my colleagues, which is very high, thank goodness, but more importantly, the scientific backup of what we're dealing with is very important.
		In the field of psychotherapy, you know, I was at a psychology meeting and one of my colleagues who is very conventional, very, very conservative, and very anti-what I do, he says, you know, he says, I don't really like what you're doing.
		I don't believe it.
		And I said, well, you know, you're entitled to your opinion, but you must understand that out of all the 250-plus divisions of the American Psychological Association, the only division that's backed by a hard science is this field.
		Quantum physics, as hard as it is for people to understand, is a hard science, and that's what demonstrates the space-time continuum, the parallel universes, and all aspects of going back and forward in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but doctor, there was a day not very long ago when somebody like you would have been professionally burned at the stake.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Sure, that would have been about 30 or 40 years ago.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not that long ago, really.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Not that long ago.
		Well, but basically, you're right.
		That's why cases like the Bridie Murphy case, when it came out in 56, with Maury Burns, because he was a businessman, but there were people who were around that who were doing that, medical people, who were trying to be right into the corner when that case came out because they didn't want to be associated with it.
		But now, of course, things have changed.
		There is a field.
		Just to show you the science of the credentials here, not only does the American Psychological Association have Code 270, which is parapsychology, but the most respected organization in the world for science has got to be the American Association for the Advancement of Science in Washington, D.C. Yes.
		And guess what?
		December 1969, over 25 years ago, they inducted into their brethren the field of parapsychology.
		It's been there.
		It's not been removed.
		It's respected.
		Duke University goes back to the early 1920s with its research.
		It is a hard science, mathematically based.
		In fact, it's more solid.
		Most of psychology, if you will, of therapy, is really in the same category as astrology as far as being a pseudoscience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we've got a lot of calls.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
		Hi.
		Hi.
		So where are you?
unidentified		San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Wes.
unidentified		Excuse me?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		How are you doing, Wes?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Is your name, Wes?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		Oh, I'm sorry.
unidentified		Okay.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		What's your question?
unidentified		In your words, how would you define God?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, God is really the energy level that is really perfect, and we are striving to do that.
		We have a remnant of the God's energy.
		I've described God as an energy force, not as a man with a beard and a white cane.
		But the energy force that we have that represents our higher self, our superconscious mind, is actually a remnant of the God energy that we came from and will eventually go back to.
		So you see, this really is very compatible with all the, with just about every religious system I've ever studied.
		The only difference is the names and mechanisms are changed to protect the innocent.
		But basically, God is nothing but the perfect energy that you will eventually reunite with and actually have nightly reunitings with him because when you go into your dream level, you do access your higher self, whether you know it or not.
unidentified		But why do we leave him to begin with?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Why do we need it, you mean?
unidentified		No, why do we leave them to begin with?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I mean, the reason is very simply.
		I described before about the extraterrestrial concept, about the idea of these light people playing around with human bodies.
		Unfortunately, human nature, being what it is, has a tendency to kind of like do things it's not supposed to do.
		And if you look around with the pollution of the environment and all kinds of medical things and using drugs, abusing drugs, we simply have a tendency to kind of like go astray.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, put it another way, a short way, free will.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Free will, or the defense mechanisms, as we say therapeutically, is the reason why we are in the, as they used to say in Laurel Mahati, what another fine mess you've gotten me into.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, turn your radio off.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		Granite City, Illinois.
		Excellent.
		I have a question.
		I've had this same dream.
		I guess for about eight years.
		I have it once a year.
		And it's this house that I go into and it's got like three levels.
		Well, I guess probably for about five years the house is always real dark.
		There's no electricity.
		And then there's this passageway that uh you can crawl through, but I've always been too afraid to crawl through it.
		Well then the last uh I guess I guess about three years ago I did crawl through it.
		Well there's always someone with me.
		Well this I had it I guess about two months ago and the dream was totally changed where the house it had electricity on and it was being remodeled and it was all like the house was all cleaned and everything was new.
		Well I had like this girl that was with me taking me through the house and the passageway was opened and it became a hallway.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		All right so now things have changed now did your did your life change was there some major issue that you were dealing with in your life that coincided with this dream opening up now?
unidentified		I'm more spiritual.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well that that could be part of it because you see what when you have a repeated dream even if it's annual I don't know whether it's the same time of the year that you got this dream but this means that you're not getting something and your higher self is trying to communicate with you.
		If you become more spiritual and become more, which is the point of being on the earth plane anyway, if you do that, now you're starting to get it.
		And if you get it, your dream now opens up just like the house becomes lit.
		And just because now you become more aware and enlightened, if you will, that's what you're doing in your life right now with the spiritual acclamation that you're making.
		So basically what you're doing is you got it, as they used to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, very good.
		I have an annual nightmare, Doctor.
		It occurs right around April 15th every year.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You and Leona Helmsley have the same nightmare.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
unidentified		Hi, hey, you know this, Mark in California?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Mark.
unidentified		Yeah, he gave his explanation of God.
unidentified		What does explanation of the devil?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, the devil really, you know, we don't really have any evidence of a devil other than certain reports and things of theological nature.
		Basically, what the devil could represent is the negative thoughts people have when they read too many newspaper articles that are negative, or when they watch the 11 o'clock news too many times, or just listen to the naysayers that say the world's going to end and the sky's going to fall and all that kind of stuff.
		The devil really doesn't exist.
		The God concept does exist as perfect energy, but I'm not a believer in the demonic aspects of the devil.
		I've never seen it.
		Even the attached entities that I work with with my patients who've not been very nice to them, but they haven't made them split peas soup and they haven't taken their soul away and they haven't put them into some dungeon of hell for eternity.
		I have not seen any evidence of that.
		So to me, the devil is just in your mind if you allow it to be or if you have to watch old Flip Wilson TV shows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		What about talk radio, Doctor?
		Now, you didn't mention that, but I'll mention it.
		Talk radio concentrates mainly on the negative because we concentrate on the news.
		And if you read the news, the news is mainly negative.
		And we talk about these things.
		Is it demonic?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, you know, I wouldn't say it's demonic.
		I don't think the news is trying to say, take your firstborn and slit its throat, you know, things like that.
		But don't forget, the people who write the news, if you reported the news, or not specifically personally you, but if the news was presented with a more, shall we say, equal time of positivity to negativity, then I think that would affect a lot of people.
		There was a recent psychological study that showed that people who did not read the paper and watch the 11 o'clock news had about 35% improvement in their hot level.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I believe it.
		I believe it.
		Well, unfortunately, positive things really are not news.
		With rare exceptions, positive things are not news.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, basically, nobody wants to read about how somebody had a good day or somebody didn't pay themselves on the way home from work.
unidentified		You're right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then we crave the negative.
unidentified		Right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But then again, I guess what I'm saying is that we do crave the negative, and that, of course, represents television ratings and newspaper sales and things like that.
		But you see, I think it's because society has been programmed for negativity.
		You see, society, by definition, has literally not empowered people, but made them codependent.
		That's the big evil word here.
		And the codependency, when people need, like, why do people need to go to a therapist every week?
		They don't.
		Why do they have to go to a chiropractor to get their back straightened out every week?
		They don't.
		Why do they have to have Coca-Cola or coffee every day or cocaine or any other drug they're using?
		They don't.
		But if they're convinced that they do and they become codependent, then that codependency marries itself to things like negative news.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the question is, which drives which?
		I could do a one-hour program weekly on nothing but good news.
		It would have, according to the ratings, about two listeners.
		So in other words, we don't do things like that.
		We do, the media does, what people want.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But don't forget, right now, we're doing a talk show.
		This is Dreamland.
		The topic and the theme for the show tonight has been very, I think, uplifting.
		This hasn't been a negative.
		This hasn't been a gloom and doom show.
unidentified		If anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I'm representing the opposite of the scallions and the other predictors.
		I'm representing the opposite here by saying that I will stake my reputation.
		I've said on national TV radio before, that you're not going to have these gloom and doom predictions that people are starting to brainwash the public with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but what do you have to lose?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If L.A. is obliterated, you're going to have to go to the bathroom.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have to lose my reputation, but also I also have to lose the credibility of the field as well as a home and a couple of dogs and myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, I understand.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		What I'm saying is that my point here is that here you've done three hours of a show that's been, if anything, uplifting.
		And of course, maybe you can't do this on your overnight show every week or every weekday night, but my point is that I think that if the public, just like if you market something in a certain way, you could literally change the public's taste by marketing things in a certain way.
		I think if the media was presented in a little bit different capacity, rather than my cup is half empty or not even a drop in there, I think people would be a lot happier.
		And I think that it may take a while, just like it takes a while for certain networks to beat their competition in the ratings and become the number one network after a while.
		But then again, in the 70s, who would have thought that ABC would be the number one network in the mid-70s?
		You know, I mean, things can happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, things happen.
		That's right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good evening, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening.
unidentified		Yes, Dr. Goldberg.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
unidentified		Yes, my name is Todd, and I'm calling from Mansfield, Ohio.
		Okay.
		And talking about dreams, there was one though that had occurred to me, though, as a matter of fact, just this past January, though, and I've been trying to get it figured out, though, for some time.
		And what it is, it's not just bits and pieces, though.
		To me, though, it seemed as though it was just the continuing story.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, is this a repeated story or a segment after a segment after a segment here?
unidentified		Well, actually, let me go into it, though, with you.
		Basically, what it is, is all I can say, though, is it started out with my watching a musical group perform live, though, that I knew from back in the late 60s.
		And then it shifts to where they have finished performing, though, and one of the members comes down, and just by coincidence, I remember this person dying a few years ago anyway, or quite a few years ago.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Did they die in the dream?
unidentified		No.
		Okay.
		But what happened was they, you know, they come down and sit near where I'm sitting, though, and we get into a conversation, and I talked with this woman, though, and I asked her if she, you know, I said, was injured though, and she says, no, I haven't died, though.
		I've just been out of the spotlight for some time.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, this person's obviously trying to communicate with you, all right?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Is there some sort of message that she's trying to impart upon you other than the fact that she's not dead?
unidentified		Well, I don't know because the thing of it is I've never even met this person, though.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, oh, you haven't met this person?
unidentified		No, I've never met this person.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Huh?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		How do you know she's dead then?
unidentified		Because of news reports and that, though.
unidentified		I mean, from what I understand though, she died back in the 70s.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, this is a famous person or a person.
		Okay, I told you.
		All right.
		Well, this person apparently is trying to communicate with you.
		Why, I don't know yet, but is there some sort of an ending to this where something has happened recently that has changed this or completed this stream?
unidentified		Well, the only thing I know is that something compelled me later that day to have played on a local radio station that is nearby where I live, though, to a solo that was by this group.
unidentified		And I don't know why, though, but something just compelled me to.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is like a medium of communication.
		Apparently, I think what you're having here is a little bit different than your usual dream.
		I think this person is actually quite possibly trying to communicate with you.
		What I can suggest, there is an out-of-body experience tape that if you call my 1-800-527-6248 number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Slower, slower, slower, slower.
unidentified		Okay.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		1-800-527-6248.
		If you call that number, I'll send you information about both my books, Past Lives, Future Lives, and The Search for Grace.
		But also, there's an out-of-body experience tape which will help you not only to facilitate your own out-of-body experiences, but this, along with the superconscious mind tape, can help you to access and to communicate on a two-way level with this probably departed spirit.
		I mean, this is a woman who actually clinically died a few years ago, or back in the 70s, I think you said.
		That you can actually communicate.
		I think this has got a lot of positivity for you here.
		I don't want you to be afraid of this at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, look, we're about out of time.
		Let me just ask you this.
		Bruce, what's next?
		What are you going to do?
		You're going to write another book, do more television, another movie?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I'm actually developing a television series right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A series?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, a reality show based on this work.
		And I'll be doing more lectures, and I'll be continuing with my patients and doing more television radio interviews and writing more scientific articles as well as I don't have plans for another book right now.
		My new book just came out, The Search for Grace, just came out last, in October, actually.
		But I will definitely keep you posted about what I do, as you know.
		And I keep on, you might say, business as usual, except on a higher spiritual level.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And be assured, we will have you back on Dreamland again.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I always love reincarnating with your doctor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		My pleasure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		And indeed, it was a pleasure to have him on Dreamland this evening.
		All right, we're out of time.
		I'm sorry.
		That's it.
		We are controlled by the clock.
		I do want to say this.
		If you're trying to get the scallion tape, which a trillion people are trying to do, and you can't get through tonight, call beginning tomorrow during normal business hours, 1-800-917-4278.
		On behalf of everybody, and there are many, who make Dreamland possible.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Thank you.
		good night This has been Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not packed.
		Yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.

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