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Jan. 22, 1995 - Art Bell
02:01:50
Dreamland with Art Bell - Gordon Michael Scallion, Michael Lindemann - Earth Changes. LM Howe Animal Mutilations
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Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience
not easily nor neatly put in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped.
And yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
This is Dreamland.
Good evening.
It is another Dreamland.
And as promised, Gordon Michael Scallion in just a moment.
A lot of people have been waiting for his appearance this evening.
I'm one of them.
Now, I want to preface this entire program with a bit of a warning.
If predictions of natural disaster, earth changes, earthquakes, big time in the news recently bother you, I would recommend that you tune out now.
If you have small children in the room, I recommend you spirit them away.
Uh, because some of this material is no doubt going to be disturbing, uh, in view of the recent, uh, Earth changes that have occurred.
So in just one moment, uh, Gordon Michael Scallion, we're gonna take care of a little bit of business here.
First, WIBX-AM in Utica, New York.
Uh, welcome to the network.
Uh, Dreamland's hopping now, I think, 92 stations as we continue to grow at just an incredible rate.
So that's, uh, WIBX in Utica, New York, I think you're going to enjoy this program.
And it will take you a little while to figure it out, so just sit back, relax, and prepare yourself.
Gordon Michael Scallion is the author of The Future Map of the United States, 1998 to 2001.
He is an internationally known and respected futurist, and a spiritual visionary, now considered by many to be one of the most accurate intuitives of our time.
Educated originally in electronics, Mr. Scallion experienced a health crisis.
We'll ask him about that.
And subsequent spiritual awakening in 1979 that left him with a gift of prophecy.
Some of his more notable published prophecies are the April 22nd, 1992 Los Angeles, California quake, the June 28th Landers and Big Bear, California quakes, the January 17th Northridge quake, As well as three of the most significant natural disasters of our times.
Hurricane Andrew, the blizzard of 93, and the Mississippi floods of 93.
He has appeared on the Fox television program, Sightings and Encounters.
And the NBC television special, Ancient Prophecies.
He will also be featured, or was, in Ancient Prophecies 2.
That was a two-hour prime-time follow-up special.
Mr. Scallion's prophecies are updated monthly in his newsletter, The Earth Changes Report, and we will be telling you how to get it.
So, in just one moment, and after these commercial messages, Gordon Michael Scallion.
Many changes, almost earth changes, have occurred in Mexico, and I guess most of you know about it.
To imagine that a currency devaluation could never occur here in the United States is naive.
It could eventually occur.
Lots of things could happen.
Gordon Michael Scallion to the telephones.
Mr. Scallion, welcome.
Good evening.
Good evening, I guess it is.
What should we call you?
Gordon is fine.
Gordon, you've got... Do you prefer the term intuitive?
Intuitivist is a term that I'm comfortable with, or futurist.
Okay.
Futurist or intuitive.
They're both good.
Now, there was a brief reference in the little thing I read, the bio at the beginning, to how all this occurred to you.
Can you give us a brief history?
In the 70s, I was living in Florida, and my real-world job at that time was electronics.
And in 1979, while I was with a client, I lost my voice.
It would be like someone had turned a switch.
You mean it just stopped?
Just stopped.
Right in the middle of a presentation that was about a quarter of a million dollar presentation.
Oh my.
And the client thought I was having a stroke.
I didn't know what I was having.
And so I was then taken to a hospital.
I wasn't in pain.
It was more of a fear and just being very, very frightened, not knowing what was wrong.
And while I was in the hospital, they were going to keep me overnight for observations and do tests in the morning.
And so that night I was watching television and just writing some notes, just trying to pass the time and not think about it.
And the room filled up with all forms of light.
Uh, colors and rainbows.
Um, at which time, of course, I thought that, uh, indeed there was really something terribly wrong with me.
And, um, I reached for the nurse call button and, uh, went to grab it and, uh, pulled and the call button, uh, ended up swinging on the end of the bed and I couldn't reach it.
And, uh, I had IVs in both of my arms and the bottle started swinging back and forth.
Um, And so I looked up and I was trying to figure out how I can disconnect these bottles and go out into the hallway.
And then something just came over me and I calmed down for some strange reason.
And a person appeared, or at least the form of a person, and proceeded to tell me to write down some things.
And I don't know if at that time if I was Totally terrified.
Or whether... I remember at that time I was thinking that maybe it was something in the IVs that I was reacting to.
Some kind of a hallucinatory experience.
Of course.
I wrote down what she had said and about 20 minutes later a nurse came through the calls and I asked her if there was any kind of equipment being used in the hallway or if there was anything going on.
Uh, I'm really afraid to even tell her what had happened.
Um, so I stayed up, uh, a good part of that night.
I did not sleep.
The next morning, my, um, my, the nurse came in, the doctor came in, asked me how I was, and I was able to speak.
I responded.
And so he ran through some tests, and it suggested that, uh, I might, uh, want to see a different kind of a doctor.
Um, and, uh, that doctor, of course, was, um, was a psychiatrist.
Of course.
Um, going through some stress, at which time I was living on a 30-foot sailboat.
I didn't think I was.
Uh, so after the test, I, um, I left the hospital, went outside, and, uh, I remember there was an Irish setter dog sitting, uh, waiting for his master, I assume, and I could see all these rainbow colors on this dog, and then I looked at people, and I can also see these various colors, and the trees, and, uh, So I just shook my head and I went back inside and I said, look at my voice is okay now, but there's something wrong with my eyes.
Gordon, just back up for a second.
What did the psychiatrist say to you?
What was his conclusion?
I went to him the next day, the day after I got out.
And he suggested that I go through at least three, a battery of three exams.
And that he also thought that I might want to do some other things.
and uh... over after the first uh... exam he said
he said i really don't see anything that would indicate
uh... you know deep stress in your life and uh... he said but i i really think you should get a
drug test and stuff like that he said i know you don't take drugs but i really
think you should do that if there's something that uh...
maybe on your boat because of the fumes or something sure uh... so i went to
that test and then uh...
I said, well, why don't you look at these notes?
And he said, no, no reason to do that.
He wouldn't do it.
And so I finally... Well, that's odd, isn't it?
Because you would think that he would imagine there would be a clue there to the origins.
Yeah, so I dismissed him.
And I had a friend I used to go sailing with who was also a gestalt therapist.
And so I called him up and I told him what had happened.
And he just loved to sail.
Anything for an excuse to go sailing for him and get out of his practice.
He says, well, I think that you ought to have a session with me on your sailboat.
And so we picked up a case of beer and out we went sailing and we talked and he says, well, let me see your notes.
And I said, well, I don't have them now.
And he says, well, when we go back, let me see them.
He took the notes and he says, I'll think about this and I'll call you tomorrow.
He says, we'll have to go sailing again though.
It'll take several sessions.
Yeah, so the next morning he called me up bright and early.
It was like 7 o'clock.
And he said, have you seen the morning paper?
And I said, no.
And he says, well, the thing on your list is here.
He says, we've got to talk.
I can imagine, yeah.
He gave me some encouragement.
We did a lot of talking for the next week or so, but the phenomena got so strong that I just couldn't deal with it.
I had a lot of early life religious background growing up.
Very strong religious background.
And I just felt that maybe the problem was that I was having too good a time in life.
And every guilt feeling in my body started to come out.
And I just decided that I just had to leave the area.
I just couldn't.
I figured if I moved away, the phenomena would stop.
And so I packed up everything and went back to New England.
And it did stop for about two months.
Your steps are logical, and I think anybody in your position would have done exactly the same thing.
Change your life, change the phenomenon.
And so then it was quiet for a couple of months?
A couple of months, very quiet.
Nothing really was happening.
And then other kinds of phenomena started happening.
At first it was, you know, seeing streaks of light out of the corner of my eye, like my peripheral vision, I would see these streaks of light.
And it was almost like seeing a piece of a moving picture, but I couldn't quite pull it into focus.
Yes.
And so every time I would do that, I would end up with these severe headaches that would literally put me in bed for, you know, a good part of the day.
And so over the period of the next month, I was seeing all kinds of things that I now know are auras.
I would see them on everything.
And then I started noticing a pattern that certain colors seem to indicate certain things.
Gordon, you may be more of a student than I am, but I seem to recall that Nostradamus and others also suffered severe headaches.
I think my experience now after being in this field for 15 years and meeting some very gifted intuitives and healers out there is that that's a common trait that seems to go through it, especially if you push hard.
Uh, trying to develop the ability, uh, whatever level you're doing it.
You know, when the body is not quite ready for it, you push too fast, these headaches, and I have observed that, uh, literally with, uh, with hundreds of clients of mine and, uh, and numerous, uh, very gifted people, as I said.
Gordon, is it your view that the gift that you have, uh, is exactly that and relatively unique to you, or do you think that you've somehow simply developed what all of us may have?
I think that the gift was given to all of us by our Creator, and I think what happens is that depending on how you're wired, we have to get in here to astrology and other belief systems, but in a capsule I can only explain my rationale from what I've been through, and it was that Each of us come wired a certain way, and it's like we all have these abilities.
Some of us can do it more easily.
I've met people, for example, who are what I would consider extraordinary intuitive.
I mean, these people are so gifted, and yet I know them personally, and they'll never use that gift because there's some part of their background that just will not let them use that gift.
And so I think it has to do with How we're moving through life, and I think once we recognize that this is not a negative thing, that this can be used for good and for service to our brothers and sisters, then I think it flourishes.
It kind of blossoms.
When did you turn the corner from being frightened of it, which certainly would have been my reaction, to trying to mull over what was happening to you to the point where you said, I guess I've got a gift and we're going to start using this positively.
Where'd you turn that corner?
I wish I could say that there was a point where I actually made that conscious decision based on a whole bunch of rationale and just good, warm feelings.
But what happened was that two men appeared at my door one day.
I was living in a very secluded place.
No one knew where I was, not even my family.
And my family did not know until recently, in fact, after all these years of what I do.
The only reason they knew it is because I was on national television and they found out that way.
And so these two men came to the door and they said they knew who I was, they knew about my experience, they knew about my losing my voice.
There were things that I hadn't told anybody.
And one person said, look, my friend here is ill and he's dying.
And he says, and we don't know what to do about it, but we were told that you could.
And I kept saying, well, who told you?
I said, you know, how do you know this?
And I said, I can't do any of these things.
And after about probably a good half an hour of this kind of conversation going back and forth, the man finally said to me, he says, look, if you just hold on to his hand, He says, um, and just allow things to flow through you.
He says, you'll be able to help him.
And, uh, and finally, uh, I think he literally badgered me into it.
I finally made the statement.
I said, look it.
I said, I can't help you.
I said, I don't know.
First thing about any of this.
I said, I'm, I'm really going through a hard time right now.
And he said, well, what do you see?
Just what do you see?
Quick.
And I remember I said, I see mercury poisoning.
And then, uh, they both looked at each other and, uh, he said, well, tell me what else you see.
And then I told him, I said, well, I see men in white jackets kind of working in some kind of a laboratory, and I see that the equipment looks very old, like it was in the 30s and 40s and 50s.
It looks like, you know, an old time period.
And then I said, I also see it affecting liver, and then all of a sudden I started saying medical names that I absolutely did not know.
I remember one of the words was the parasympathetic system and I started babbling on and finally I caught myself and I said, wait a second.
I said, I'm sorry.
I said, I don't know what I'm talking about.
I said, you really need to go see a doctor.
And one of the men turned to me and he said, I am a doctor.
And he said, this is my friend.
This has been my, he's been my partner for my whole life.
And he said, he's dying.
And so we talked a bit more.
I gave him some suggestions.
He left.
And then everything was quiet for maybe a couple of months, six weeks.
And then all of a sudden he came back.
And he said, I just want to let you know that my friend is well.
And then he just started sending people to me.
And then for most of the 80s, people from around the world started coming.
And that's how I got through it.
I got through it literally by being forced into it.
And as I got into it more and more, it seemed like it was something that was helpful, but it certainly was taking a toll on me physically and mentally.
And then in 1991, after doing thousands of various consultations, it stopped.
I no longer could see things for people, and it was like a rest.
And I thought it was like a blessing.
I just said, finally this has stopped.
Yes.
And then all of a sudden, I started seeing visions of the Earth.
As a living consciousness.
Just like the same way I was seeing these individuals going through pain and trying to get them back on path, I saw the same thing with the earth.
And the earth all of a sudden became a living being to me.
And this was not part of my aware consciousness.
My thoughts weren't environmental at all.
I was in a different place.
More technical is kind of my thought process and how I work.
Yes.
And that's when I We're going to move quickly and earth changes.
whole focus and then began to say that people need to know about what's going to be happening
so they can prepare or hopefully if enough people get together we can modify what's going
to happen.
We're going to move quickly and earth changes.
Do you still retain the ability to in effect call a human condition to, was there any healing
involved Gordon or was it just the intuitive ability to call what it was that was wrong?
It was diagnostics.
I was kind of like a giant x-ray machine.
I could diagnose what was going on and give corrective remedies for it.
So some part of my super-consciousness had this knowledge from some place.
But as far as the actual healing, That's not something that I've ever done or that I'm aware of.
Many people have said to me, and I literally had hundreds of letters of people saying that I had shook their hand or something, but that is not something that I consciously am aware of.
Yes.
So you don't claim it?
No, I do not.
Okay, good.
I guess everybody out there knows that lately we have had some Extreme.
The Japan earthquake is just awful.
I was talking to you before the show about it and we both feel the same way.
It's horrible.
The death toll up now around 5,000 or over.
It may be over by now.
And just tremendous human misery.
And so earthquakes are on many, many minds out there.
I have your predictions for 1995.
And I must say, Gordon, this kind of scares me a little bit, and I don't scare that easily.
And I guess you would say, don't be scared, be prepared.
So we're going to talk a little bit, if we can, out of the bottom of the hour here, about what you believe is coming.
And about how you feel about all of this.
There must be a terrible, weighty feeling of responsibility to be able to diagnose people's ills, or even more so now, being able to predict Earth changes.
It must be a crushing responsibility.
Have you learned to deal with it?
No, I haven't.
Very selfishly, there isn't a night that goes by when I don't say a prayer that I wish that I would see something different.
I mean, there's so many positive things in the world, and I really, you know, given my druthers, I would focus a lot on... On the positives.
On the positive, and in particular on children, which is a... Alright, Gordon, I understand.
We've got a break right here.
We'll be right back.
This Hour of Artville was recorded for rebroadcast at this time.
Please do not call.
We continue now with your calls to Dreamland with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nigh.
Well, inevitably, that one always comes up.
We're not continuing with calls.
We may or may not get to them with Gordon Michael Scallion.
We'll see how the time Uh, goes, we've got a lot we've got to get in, and once again, in just a moment, Gordon Michael Scallion, a gifted intuitive.
Now back to Gordon Michael Scallion, and, again I want to warn, we're about to get into the predictive segment here, and, um, there are going to be some predictions, I feel, that will disturb some people.
If you are disturbed by this sort of thing, please, now, tune out.
With that caveat, back now to Gordon Michael Scallion.
Gordon?
Yes.
I guess I would like to get into the predictive area now.
There are things you would like to warn people about.
What's ahead?
Okay.
Before I begin, I'd like to preface it by indicating that one of the jobs of a futurist is to present their vision with the understanding that they're not always correct.
They're not 100%.
I see my role much as a weather person.
I see things coming.
I can warn.
I was a sailor when I was in Florida.
I always listened to the weather reports because if there was going to be a storm or hurricane blowing or a spout or something, I wanted to know about it so that I could prepare for it.
Sure.
That's kind of the role that I play.
Having said that, Well, let me interrupt you again.
Having said what you just said, I have to ask, what is the rough accuracy percentage?
I note that you keep careful track of your predictions, so I would assume you track the accuracy.
Yes, we have a staff that does that, and there are other people who do it as well.
We just completed 1994.
It was done back last Friday, and I just saw the draft of it this weekend.
You mean 95?
Oh, 94.
I see accuracy on 94.
What we do is we publish in the month of February, in our Earth Changes Report, we publish all of the hits and misses that we did.
So if we say something, We publish it, and we say we were right or we were wrong on this.
Right.
And we're trying to establish that there's a pattern here, or a track record.
Of course.
And we found that for each 100 that we had predicted, there were 13 errors, 13 misses out of each 100.
All right, that helps us judge what we're going to hear.
That's incredible.
That's absolutely incredible.
And that was for 94.
I have here your 95 predictions.
Right.
And I'm not going to read them.
I'll allow you to go ahead and give us the highlights or the stuff that's really important to know.
Okay.
Probably what would be helpful is to get an overview of the year first, like a little capsule.
1995 is going to be perhaps the most dynamic year.
It obviously already started that way from a geophysical point of view, but there's a lot more dynamics coming this year.
In the 14 or 15 years that I've been seeing Vision, the ones that I saw in December, which is the ones that I published in January, were so vivid, so clear.
And it's not all gloom and doom.
There's some very positive things that are going to happen this year.
The things that are going to happen that people need to know about Is that the weather patterns that we've been seeing, these erratic weather patterns, these are going to increase significantly.
So people who, especially in the Northwest, Oregon, Washington, coastal areas, and also Southern California from L.A.
down to San Diego, those areas in particular, weather-wise, are going to go through a constant Stress conditions.
Rain is the keynote that I see for 1995.
Massive flooding.
Instead of when we had the floodings in the Mississippi, we're going to see floodings now throughout the country.
We're also going to move to three seasons in many parts of the country in 1995.
Instead of having four seasons.
Three seasons.
Like New England, for example, has four seasons.
We're only going to have three in 1995.
Uh, the weather is going to change that much.
The, uh, the temperatures.
One of the predictions I had made back in, uh, December 7th was that we were going to see a winter where we were going to break weather records, uh, day after day.
That it was just going to be running warmer and warmer and warmer, uh, followed by, uh, by rains.
And, uh, and so We're going to see that.
We're going to see that in the northeast.
We're going to see that in the southeast part of the country as well.
So, major weather pattern changes.
And the keynote, if we were to look at it in 1996, looking back, and we were to say, what was 95 like?
We would say it was the year of the wind.
Because all I see visions of are constant rain, Driven by strong winds.
Massive tornadoes.
Whatever we experience, the total number of tornadoes and cyclones and things of that nature, in any year in recorded history, 95 will exceed those, significantly so.
So we're going to be seeing a lot of wind damage.
So the weather elements are all going to change.
And it's going to be a constant thing rather than a sporadic.
Those things have already begun to occur, of course, in the Northwest and even Southern California and here in the desert where I am.
It's been a very strange year, Gordon.
Yes, yes.
When you see these things, when you see wind and rain and flooding and tornadoes, do you see them vividly as one of us would observe a movie, or in what manner do they become apparent to you?
They come one of three ways.
One is that it'll occur in a dream state, which is a loose dream,
and I can see it in full detail, and because it's lucid, I can actually interact with it.
The other way is I see it is I see it consciously.
It'll just snap into my mind wherever I happen to be, and it's kind of like watching three television screens.
There's usually three visions showing some aspects of the same thing.
So for example, I might be watching a scene that's on a beach.
And the second scene might be more colorful and I might see waves coming in.
And then in the third scene, I might see waves and wind and everything, you know?
So what I've learned is that these three visions are three aspects of the same Prediction, and the one that's the most colorful out of the three is usually the one that I pay attention to.
I think what it's showing me is that not everything is a reality that will necessarily happen.
It's the potential of a reality happening.
Do you interpret then the brightest one as the most probable reality?
Yes, and then eventually what happens is that If I see many visions that I don't see again and I don't publish those, I only publish the visions that I see at least three times.
If I see the same vision three times over a period of weeks or months or even years, then I will publish it.
I've learned.
Usually by the time I see it for the third time, it's usually just one screen and the other two screens are kind of a grayish color and kind of washed out and less detail.
And what that tells me is that The other two probabilities no longer are there.
That what I'm seeing is probably going to occur.
Can you force it?
Can you force seeing something or does it just come involuntarily?
If I'm with a group, for example, if I'm doing a class or I'm doing kind of a public presentation, and people are there and ask questions about
a subject matter, very often it will induce the vision. The difficulty always is
interpreting the vision. They're not symbolic. The visions that I typically see are actual
experiences. I have to look at all three of these visions. And again, I've trained
myself to look for the ones with a brighter color.
If you were to begin to have one right now, how would it affect you?
Would you suddenly stop and pay attention to it?
Would you be able to continue?
In other words, how disruptive is it to your immediate environment?
I've had to literally train myself to be able to shut them off.
Um, after the second or third time where I almost, uh, had major car accidents, I literally had to work to train it.
So what happens is the visions are still running, uh, and I kind of see through them.
It's kind of like, uh, I just, I fix my eyes and kind of, uh, A stare glazed, and I'm able to see right through the vision, and I'm focused on something far, farther away.
Because typically the visions that I'm seeing, even though they're in my mind's eye, to me, they appear to be three or four feet in front of me, when I'm looking at them.
I can even see periphery vision of these trees.
So I've learned to be able to tune around it.
But the vision will just keep running, and then if I don't pay attention to it, the vision will come back.
As though it's not finished, it's going to play to you either now or later.
Right.
Fascinating.
One more question.
When you see, for example, flooding, high winds, all the rest of that sort of thing, how are you able to identify when it will be and where it is?
That's probably the most difficult thing, but I've had some help along the way.
Usually what I do is I look for some things.
I've trained myself to look for details, and that's why I wait three visions.
The first detail I might be able to tell... I'll give you an example.
You know, the recent Japan quake that occurred in Kobe.
I published and predicted that there was going to be a quake that was going to occur, and it gave the magnitude range.
In the vision, I actually saw the needle swinging back and forth.
And so I knew that it was going to be somewhere in the mid-7 range.
And then I saw the islands of Japan.
And I saw the big sign, I saw a map, I saw Honshu.
So I knew it was somewhere in the region of Honshu.
But I didn't know the timing of it.
I just knew that it was there.
And I looked to see the terrain.
Was there snow on the ground?
Was it warm?
Was it cold?
And, um, that's where the difficulty goes, because with Japan, for example, I've had, um, before, uh, December 7th, when I did my predictions for 95, um, I probably had 10 predictions, uh, for different pieces of Japan, different quakes entirely.
Uh, and three of those have already occurred.
Since December 7th, I've had over 20 visions, uh, of Japan.
And so, there are multiple ones, and, and, so it becomes very difficult.
Hazily, what'll happen is that I'll, uh, If it's something very, very important, I've noticed, if I think about it, you know, like if I'm searching, wondering, you know, is this going to be in the wintertime?
Sure.
You know, sometimes I'll actually hear a voice, an inner voice in my head, that will... In fact, on the April 22nd, 92 LA quake, in the June 28th, a voice told me a range of a week.
It gave me a week range, and the same thing on Hurricane Andrew.
I had some kind of an inner voice that it's going to occur between this date and this date.
That doesn't happen very often.
It seems to happen maybe one in a hundred times.
Otherwise, I just have to really pay attention, write every detail I can about the vision, wait for it to occur three times, and hope I have enough information.
All right, now comes one of those predictions that I warned everybody about.
This is a shocker.
And with the Richter scale reading of the earthquake in Japan in mind, tell us what you're predicting for the Palm Springs area.
I see a quake greater than magnitude 9.
This year?
I see it this year.
That is a 9 earthquake.
I'm sure I don't need to tell you, but that's of catastrophic proportion.
What we also need to know is that, with probably most of your listeners, and most of us don't know, is that when they publish an actual quake event, like let's say it's a 7.0 quake, a 7.0 quake is usually an average of many sensors scattered throughout an area.
Sure.
And so, for example, at ground zero, the quake may have been greater than seven.
Now on Northridge, Many of the sensors, and I was able to get a printout of the actual recordings off of the photograph, it hit 9.1.
So, it went all the way from a low of 6.2 to a high of 9.1, and then we came out with an average.
So, I believe we've already seen, you know, it's a key point to 9, but a sustained 9 is what I'm talking about now.
I'm talking about something where The seismograph, if we were to measure a 50 to 100 mile radius, we would see that kind of an impact.
I really believe the, we're not talking about the San Andreas Fault now flipping.
I don't see it as that at all.
What I actually see happening is the tectonic plate itself bulging.
And I think we'll have a few warning signs that people can watch for before that happens.
For example?
I've been predicting for two years that we're going to have a birth of a new volcano in California, Mammoth Lake.
There's indications now that something is going on there.
There's enough geologists working in that area right now trying to figure out what's causing all the trees to die and things that are going on.
If that should become a reality, that's a signal, and we would, you know, if all of a sudden we start seeing on the news that this volcano is beginning to break the ground, start to come out with some venting and some steaming, then within, probably within weeks, we would see the quake.
Another warning sign, I've been given kind of a sequence scenario.
The scenario was that the quake would hit in Japan first, This would be within a period of about two weeks, we would see four quakes in the world in specific places with magnitudes that would be greater than seven.
The sequence was that it would happen first in Japan.
The next sequence would be that we would see something that would occur in the Indian Ocean someplace.
The third sequence would be that it would go back to Japan.
And then the fourth sequence is that it would hit the west coast of the United States, and specifically here.
I've targeted Palm Springs, but I really see this almost as a fracture in the ground.
I see it much larger than that.
So if this sequence starts, now this sequence may have begun, but my sense is that, at least I'm hopeful, that this quake will come later in the year rather than earlier.
Because I haven't had any visions It sure feels as though the sequence is underway now.
You say you're hopeful it'll be later in the year.
that would be early warning signs. If the sequence starts of the fourth, these things will all occur
within a matter of two to three weeks. It sure feels as though the sequence is underway now.
Are you, you say you're hopeful it'll be later in the year.
It would seem to me to be kind of a stretch to say this is not the sequence because it's going
to have to roughly repeat itself if it's later, isn't it? Yes. The, you know,
Yes.
Right now, there's nothing significant going on in the Indian Ocean, so that would be the next thing to watch for.
I have felt that there is going to be a quake this year in Japan greater than eight.
I'm quite certain that that will occur in the region of Honshu this year.
That hasn't occurred yet.
There's triggers that There's like three triggers, and the triggers that I see are early February, we miss that, we go to maybe the early summertime, like June, and if we miss that, then we look into December.
Those are like three potential windows for this sequence to happen.
Gordon, what's the range of damage?
Can you tell us about that at all?
The extent range?
I'm not sure that I even understand what I see.
I can only describe what the vision that's indelibly marked in my brain because this particular quake, the prophecy in 1989 that was given to me was that there would be three quakes in California before even larger things happen.
The first one they said would be about a sixth and it would occur You know, in the L.A.
area, and I defined where it was, the magnitude and the epicenter, and it said it would follow by a quake that would be larger, in the 7 range, and that would occur a few months later.
And then the third one would be larger, which would be in the 8 range, 8.3 range.
Now, that has not occurred yet.
The first two quakes have occurred.
The one that I've been watching, or this Palm Springs area quake, rips all the way to Bakersfield.
So it goes from Palm Springs to Bakersfield.
If you get your map out and draw a line between those two, you'll have a pretty good idea of the terror that I'm seeing.
What I saw was that it was clearly Los Angeles, and I've been there a couple of times, so I'm familiar with the city.
And the thing that disturbed me was that when I saw the vision, all I could see was this glitter everywhere.
And I thought it was water at first.
I thought water had come in.
And then when the vision repeated itself, I realized that what we were looking at was 10 to 15 feet of glass in the street.
So the buildings themselves, the windows had all popped out and had fallen down to the pavement and literally had filled up and covered cars.
What had happened is that that whole area had almost become isolated.
Like Santa Barbara was kind of like an island, so part of California had become flooded.
So when the thing had cracked, coastal water had rushed in and filled it.
So the actual terrain itself had shifted and dropped.
At least that good portion of that portion of California had lost its land and had become reclaimed by the sea.
Holy mackerel.
Gordon, we've reached the top of the hour and maybe it is well that we have.
What a moment.
Stay right where you are.
We'll be right back to you.
We're going to do some news and a couple of things.
We'll be right back to you.
You're listening to Gordon Michael Scallion.
I'm Art Bell.
The program is called Dreamland.
We'll be back.
Welcome back.
This Hour of Art Bell was recorded for rebroadcast at this time.
Please do not call.
From the Kingdom of Nye, this is Greenland with Art Bell on the CBC Radio Network.
My guest is Gordon Michael Scallion.
The predictions are very ominous.
If you are frightened by this sort of thing, then your best bet would be to tune out.
And again, if there are small children in the room, you might want to spirit them away.
We'll get back to Gordon Michael Scallion in just a moment.
Gordon Michael Scallion.
Gordon, I guess we've got to move fast because there's a lot we've got to get in.
Palm Springs and the Los Angeles area, you predicted a nine point plus quake and saw glass as one would see water from a high altitude.
Yeah.
Gordon, I'm going to ask you a very selfish question.
I'm located near Death Valley and west of Las Vegas.
Should I not be comfortable about that?
Your state will experience earthquakes this year, and in the short term, the area that you're in, based on my future map, would indicate that in the short term here is the next couple of years, there wouldn't be a concern that I would see.
In 98 to 2001, my visions show your area to be at high risk.
The things to watch for is to... My future map shows things occurring in stages.
I have insets.
This is the first thing that will happen, and the second thing, and the third thing.
And so, if the first thing does not happen, then you simply forget everything I've said.
It would not have any validity.
Alright.
But if they do happen, then the conditions are such that it may very well happen.
In other words, pay attention.
Yes.
Briefly, for the Portland, Oregon area, we've got a lot of people listening there.
Within 50 miles, you're predicted to be hit by a magnitude 7.2 earthquake, plus or minus 0.3, is that correct?
Yes.
That area, I went up there.
Usually, if I get enough visions on an area, then I try to at least one time go to the area.
When I'm there in the area, the visions come to me while I'm there, and they're very intense.
I assume it's because I'm in that actual energy space.
The warning there was that there would be a quake to the south and southwest of Mount Rainier first.
And that would bring Mount Rainier to eruption.
This is an old prediction.
This is one of my first predictions I did back in 92.
Mount Rainier is not officially active.
There's some things going on there, but it's still not active.
Right.
My sense is that I expected that to go off last year, the last quarter of last year.
In fact, I thought that the visions were getting so bright that I figured that we were very close.
The visions haven't changed, so I still see that.
There was a small quake there in that region of around the Four Range.
But the 7 has not occurred, so I carried that forward to 95.
I still see that as something to watch out for.
When that happens, it's going to blow out to the southwest part of the volcano, and it will put Seattle under ash.
Moving east, you have predicted, brace yourselves everybody, on the New Madrid Fault, in the 95-96 span, to be hit by a magnitude 9 0.0 earthquake, plus or minus 0.5, yes?
Yes, and that one I may have to update soon, because since I published that particular prediction, it's been several months, and I have seen visions very recently that are getting intense.
I think it will be a larger quake than that.
Now, that area in 1812, I believe it was, in that range anyway, They had a tremendous quake there.
So it's an area that's waiting to go.
I believe it will occur after, however, the L.A.
quakes begin.
So I see that later, and that's why I thought 96.
You additionally see political changes.
You see eventually 13 states seceding from the Union, beginning with Texas.
Is that correct?
I see, uh, I see 13 colonies, not 13 states succeeding, but I see, um, when I look to the future, uh, 98 to 2001, I see that there's been a complete change in our geophysical structure of the United States, which would require new maps, and I also see a new economic structure and a new political structure.
And what I see is colonies, where several states, uh, band together.
This happens and is created because of two factors.
One is that the United States can't, and even now it can't, handle the debt service that it has.
Every time one of these natural disasters occurs, it's another 10 or 20 billion dollars.
You can't get insurance in many places now in the West Coast, and this is going to just get worse.
So I see it as part of that, and also part of the fact that earthquakes have just caused such a condition that states have to band together, and they become colonies.
We still have a presidential figure, but the colonies are independent.
And we move more to a different, there's new commodities and exchanges that's not in New
York City anymore, and colonies actually barter between each other through this exchange,
more for real goods, which is silver, gold, or commodities of one form or another.
Precious metals, yes.
Right.
Circling back for a second to the New Madrid fault, can you tell us what specific areas
will realize the greatest damage?
If you were to take a pen and put it on Missouri...
Just put it in the center of Missouri.
And then if you were to take every state around Missouri, each one of those states will be hard hit as a result of it.
So it isn't an isolated area.
The quakes that I'm predicting, the first ones that occurred, I had predicted to watch for a vertical thrust quake.
I was on program called sightings over a year ago and more than a
year ago and I said watch for a Vertical thrust quake that will occur in the Los Angeles
area and that's going to signal that a change of the quake A vertical thrust is when the land is thrust up very
sharply very quickly rather than a rolling action where a quick kind of rolls
like a wave What I see happening is that the that the magma of the
earth the earth core itself is shifting its position I believe it began its first shift in 1932.
And it's accelerating it now.
It's kind of sloshing around like water in a bottle that you would move around.
And it's going to cause large sections of land to be distorted in one place.
So in some places you're going to see land thrust upwards.
In another part of the world you'll see land that will actually thrust downward.
And this is, if we follow any mythical Studies such as lost continents like Lemuria or Atlantis.
This is what my visions have indicated and actually it indeed did happen
And this is in a cycle that's repeating itself again But we're gonna we're gonna see a very large area and the
new mid-field thought will be one such area with a landmass will be
pushed upward very fast and Then it will settle back down very fast. So really the
world as we know it is about to change Yeah, and it seems like we have a lot of indications
You know, in 1991 when I made my first public appearance and I said these things, you know, I said we're going to see erratic weather, we're going to see fires, we're going to see quakes.
I mentioned all these things and at that time there wasn't a lot going on in the world.
But if we look at 1991 to now, we see that the world has really changed.
We have an electronic media system that immediately focuses on and shows us major things.
What we're not seeing every day is what I see on all of our computers here.
We're tied into every news service in the world just about.
And so I'm aware of so much that's going on that just isn't being published.
Right now, unless there is a major loss of property or a major loss of life, these things just aren't getting published, but they're very significant events.
The world is changing.
What you have summed up with in your predictions is 95 to 97 will be seen as the beginning stages of what will become known as and fulfilled as Armageddon.
Yes.
That's what this is, Gordon?
No.
It begins at Armageddon.
It's from the biblical text and from both testaments, but most of the biblical work, or the Koran for that matter, or any text, is open to interpretation.
Scholars really aren't sure.
It was written in such a way as to force you to really think about what's being said.
And I can only share what my understanding is based on my vision.
Because many times I see visions of the past.
I don't see just of the future.
I see of the past.
And sometimes these visions can last for an hour.
It's like me attending a lecture.
And so I've learned an awful lot about ancient cultures.
I just got back from Egypt where I learned all about the Great Pyramid of Sphinx, what's going on, and why that's probably the most important thing in 1995 that's about to happen.
What is going to happen there?
There is going to be major discoveries made momentarily here.
I am involved in it in a small way, but we are going to find the records that were left, like an archive, like a time capsule that was left there.
And what it's going to show is that the site there, the structure, is much older than anybody could imagine.
And it's also going to have prophecies for our days, for the years, for the 90s, literally, up to the year 1998.
So we're going to have prophecies for our times, plus we're going to have a record of the people who built them, where they came from, Uh, their knowledge that they knew that, uh, the changes were going to come, that Earth changes were going to happen during that time period, and so they archived this information to be found at a later time.
And this is all going to come to the surface, and it's going to completely change history, and it's going to change our understanding of who we really are.
Uh, we've really been here a lot longer, and, uh, and we've gone through Earth changes before.
Um, you predict twelve volcanoes worldwide are gonna go off.
Twelve new ones, yes.
Twelve new ones, yes.
And, um, I guess there have been a lot of studies with regard to nuclear warfare about, um, the upper atmosphere and what would happen and the nuclear winter and all the rest of that.
Well, it seems to me mankind, even with all his bombs, ...is not going to be able to compete with 12 volcanoes going off at once, and the world, it seems to me, would enter a sort of nuclear winter, would it not?
Yes.
What we're going to see is... Pinatabo itself was responsible for changing weather more than a half a degree.
And so we saw a major change in the amount of usable light just from one volcano.
The ones that I see occur around the world, some of them are smoldering now from the first eruption, others will be quiet.
The kind of fallout that I see is going to cause, there'll be one particular case, there'll be three days of total darkness, pretty much globally.
And then some amazing, it'll be called a miracle, no one will really know what happened, but all of a sudden, the third day, the blackness will go away, and the sun will come out again.
So, we go through that, but I don't see it as a nuclear winter, but we do change our weather patterns.
Some countries, we end up having a dust bowl repeat itself here in the United States as a result of it.
And so, this happens in 96-97 timeframe, is when the results of all this will happen.
But we'll start to see the volcanoes here.
The one that I've been predicting for two years to watch for, to signal this beginning of this, uh... with a volcano in mexico
called up public a petal and uh... that uh...
began at uh... to to be active on jersey active and made
acting evacuated about seventy five thousand people there that in the past month
so they had that's getting ready to go off and that that will signal the start
of that what uh...
what advice would you have for people and uh... there are massive numbers of
people affected by your immediate predictions really all of us but uh... in the most affected areas
uh... gordon what advice would you give them
They're listening.
Some of the things that I'm saying are, you know, people will hear this one of two ways.
They'll either hear it and immediately go into a denial, And and other people will hear it and panic and then
another group will hear it and want to know what we can do Should I should I put my stakes and move should I do this
and that I guess I'm asking representing that group and asking I
I think that the most important thing that people can do is is
Pretty much what your show is about It is it's learning to to trust that inner part of us that
has answers for all these things but is able to sort out truth from from fiction and and and
and right from wrong and just guidance and direction and And I'm convinced that the only thing that I can really tell people and to encourage them to do is to begin to really trust your intuition and begin to listen within.
I can tell you things like get an emergency preparedness kit, which I think everybody should do anyways.
Our family, all of our family here, we have one in each of our cars.
So we have enough for three days if we got ourselves isolated.
We have a lot of things put away, emergency rations and generators.
You can do all of that stuff, and I've done it, and then I forgot about it.
I did what I could do.
But I know that the possibilities are that when something happens, I might not be in my car, or I might not be in my house, where I can have access to this.
I might be on the road someplace.
And so I know that in the end, it's going to have to be some form of inner spiritual guidance that's going to allow me to get through these times.
What about the way man will treat man during this time?
Gordon, in other words, with even minor disturbance, Los Angeles generally breaks into riots and people are doing each other harm and violence.
With the kind of changes you're talking about, what will the social implications be?
In many cities we're going to see martial law.
We'll see the National Guard first, and then next we'll see the military.
And this will occur.
We're also going to see the best of people.
We're going to see people do extraordinary things, and people open their doors.
We're going to see the best and the worst of us during these conditions.
Cities themselves are going to be the most difficult place to be.
Rural areas, Are you going to, are you going to fare better?
There's lower numbers.
If you take a place like Los Angeles, for example, you know, everything is connected by bridges.
All water comes in from a long distance through aqueducts.
You look at Manhattan themselves, and Manhattan is going to be devastated before the end of this decade.
Everything comes over a bridge or an aqueduct.
You lose water, and all we have to do is just look at what's going on in Kobe.
I mean, here was an earthquake preparing this country.
And they had drills, and they really worked at this.
And yet, all of that, I'm convinced that many of the people who were saved were saved from an intuitive flash, you know, to maybe be away that day, or to pay attention to your dreams that are constantly giving us guidance.
So much of it came to naught.
The earthquake buildings that wouldn't fall down, the highways and railway trestles that wouldn't fall down.
Gordon, they all fell down.
Yes, they did.
You know, and the same thing is going to happen in the Bay Area of California, and it's going to happen in New York, and it's going to happen in L.A., and it's going to happen in San Diego.
These things are... These things will happen.
We're talking about a whole new type of Earth movement that we haven't seen before.
Gordon, short on time, you have a newsletter, all of these predictions and much more.
This sort of thing is in the newsletter.
Why don't you tell them how to get it?
The easiest way is that you can call our 800 number between 9 o'clock and 5 o'clock Eastern Time,
and that's 1-800-MATRIX-3, 1-800-628-7493, 1-800-MATRIX-3.
Or they can write for a free information package from our institute,
and they can write to MATRIX, PO Box 336, Chesterfield, New Hampshire, 03443.
And, um, either one will, um, will get some information out your way.
That is where you are, is in New Hampshire?
Yes.
This is, uh, um, one of my visions, uh, back in, uh, 92, 82 rather, guided me to, uh, to come up to this area.
Is New Hampshire, through all of this that's coming, Gordon, a good place to be?
Parts of it are.
The 50 miles from where I am would not be towards the coast.
Anything near a coastal area or any kind of a tributary, a river, major rivers, like the St.
Lawrence Seaway or the Mississippi, which will break all the way and go down to the Gulf.
So you want to be away from water.
And personally, I love water.
So if I was given my choice, I would still be down in Florida.
But the place where I am is, my visions have indicated, is a solid long-term area.
Well, you mentioned Florida.
Just before we go, you predict 100 mile an hour winds hitting the south, hitting Florida, I guess, the Florida Keys, Georgia, the southeast.
Yeah, that has occurred since I published that back in early December, but there's more.
I see a lot more wind coming, and it's not just in the hurricane season, but I see it occurring in the spring and continuing.
Like I said, 95 is going to be the year of the strong winds, and you're going to see that everywhere.
Not just in Florida, but you're going to It's going to be across the country.
Gordon, it's an incredible, immediate future you have drawn for us.
Very sobering.
I want to thank you for being here.
You've agreed to come on perhaps later in the year.
We desperately want to have you on again.
Sorry this is all the time we have, but boy, what a pleasure.
My pleasure.
Thank you, Gordon.
Okay, good evening.
Take care.
Well, there's a lot for you all to think about.
Gordon Michael Scallion.
And I guess I have no comments on the predictions made.
But they're really not needed, are they?
Good evening, I'm Art Bell, and this is Dreamland.
We'll be back.
From the Kingdom of Nigh, you're hearing Dreamland with Art Bell.
To participate in the program, call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
1-800-618-8255.
First-time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
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It certainly is.
Good evening.
First time callers, area code 702-727-1222 or the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
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It certainly is. Good evening. Dreamland underway for a Sunday night.
Gordon Michael Scallion was our first guest.
That hour and a half speaks for itself.
We're going to, um, in sort of a reverse order here, go now, uh, to Colorado, where Linda Howe, you never know where Linda's gonna be, and, uh, this week it happens to be Colorado so we're going to go get a quick report from her and then we're going to proceed West to the Santa Barbara area and yet another futurist Who's been on the program before who I'm I know that you're going to enjoy Michael Lindemann
So, from something, by the way, called the 2020 Group.
Right now, though, to Colorado and Linda Howe.
Linda, good evening.
Hi, Art.
Hi.
This week, I have been in Denver, Colorado, for the Colorado County Sheriff's Association's annual meeting.
The association asked Dr. John Altshuler, a pathologist and hematologist, to present data from our 1994 Animal Mutation Research Grant that we've been doing for the last almost 12 months.
Dr. Altshuler and I are now preparing a written summary of our 1994 work, which clearly has shown in several unusual animal deaths, including two buffalo in Colorado, that disease and predators were not the culprits.
In approximately one-quarter to one-third of the cases this year and in previous years, we have been able to see that the excisions reveal cooked hemoglobin, meaning the tissue was cut with high heat, as I've reported before on Dreamland.
We also showed the Sheriff several tissue samples from the mutilator's excisions, meaning tissue was cut from where the excisions had been made in the first place.
And we let the sheriff handle them to see how hard that tissue is, almost like plastic, compared to normal cowhide, which is soft and pliable.
The sheriff themselves said that it was one of the best demonstrations that they had seen, because when you can feel tissue that it feels like plastic versus normal raw hide, you know that something unusual has happened.
And when Dr. Altshuler looked at these hard tissues under a microscope the cellular changes are consistent with the presence of high heat.
Another finding from our research was to confirm that biochemical and biophysical changes in pasture grass under or near mutilated animals has shown the impact of some kind of an energy field.
I have interviewed Dr. W.C.
Levengood, the Michigan biophysicist in the past, who has examined the plant and has concluded, even from current cases this year, that an intense energy field is involved at the mutilation sites, which suggests an advanced technology.
The research that we've been doing will also become part of the dialogue and the library source material in our new Institute for the Study of Contact with Non-Human Intelligence on America Online.
ISCNI has been created and organized by my colleague, Michael Lindemann, who you are going to introduce in a moment.
Yes.
And I would just say that I think that we share a goal, which I know that our Dreamland listeners do, Is that if in a year from now we have a crossroads for reporting for people to interact on in an electronic way in computers about unusual phenomena and they know that when they plug in to ISCNI
They are plugging into some of the most reliable and up-to-date information, the hard news, instead of speculation, then we will, I think, be achieving one of our goals, and that would be a crossroads that people can come to, report, and get reliable information.
Excellent.
All right, Linda.
With regard to animal mutilations, having established that, you know, it's not predators Where do you go next?
Where does the research head from here?
One of the big problems is how do we make the link between the evidence of technology interacting with plants and animals and what is the technology and who is applying the technology?
Well that has been all of our frustrations and we do have eyewitnesses and one of the goals that I'm going to have in the next year is to try To have more documentation of eyewitnesses who in the past have said, I'll tell you off the record, but I won't go on film or in some public record.
One of the benefits of something like Dreamland, of ISCNI, of increasing very straight reporting about unusual phenomena is that more and more people are beginning to feel comfortable to say, well look, if this will help someone else to report, Then I will go on the record.
And if, even though this may not be hard proof, if I can get four, let's say, of the seven people who have talked to me about their either broad daylight or total conscious night encounters with beams of light in which they have seen animals go up, or the disks that they've seen in pastures and they've been reluctant to talk about, I think at least it's building a stronger circumstantial link And who knows, in this next year or so, maybe someone somewhere in the world with the prevalence of camcorders is going to be able to capture something that becomes harder.
I have heard recently a report that, I'm trying to get the videotape, that someone in the northeast has on videotape what looked like a helicopter and that it changed on the tape into a disc.
Those are not hard proof, but they are going further because we now have more people with things like camcorders out there that may catch something.
And then we have this hard physical medical data that is saying we're not dealing with predator and disease in many of these cases.
Most likely not satanic calls.
We've got a worldwide phenomenon.
It appears to be tied with an energy field that is related to a technology.
Now we have to find out where the technology is.
Linda, give us your address and phone number, and I want everybody to know we're very short on time, but she, Linda, has a number of books out.
In fact, tell them about your books, Linda.
Well, the newest one, Glimpses of Other Realities, Facts and Eyewitnesses, is focusing on some of the harder data in crop circles, the investigations there, the animal mutilation, abduction syndrome, or animal mutilations and the human abduction syndrome, and what abductees have had to say about why there is this strange animal mutilation phenomena apparently linked, from their point of view, with something off-planet.
And the pattern of different types of entities, non-human entities, that people have reported around the world for the last 40 years.
That book is out and available along with a brand new documentary that I did this year called Strange Harvest 1993.
And that looked at cases in the United States and other parts of the world just in the year 1993.
Prior to that are other videos and books which, in the interest of time, I can describe in another program, but people can also write to me for information about this work at Linda Howe, Post Office Box 538, Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
Zip code 1-9-0-0-6.
That's post office box 538, Huntingdon, H-U-N-T-I-N-G, D as in dog, O-N, Valley, P-A, 1-9-0-0-6.
And the fax number there is area code 2-1-5-4-9-1-9-8-4-2.
And in your upcoming guest, Michael Lindemann, I just want to say I am very excited and enthusiastic about IFCNI.
I will be contributing as a faculty member news stories and I hope that our listeners will join us in cyberspace with what may be in the future some very, very interesting dialogue classes and Yes, well it's a very important resource.
Alright, next week is it back to Philadelphia?
confidence that they can have dialogue about facts and with some credibility.
Yes, well it's a very important resource. All right, next week is it back to Philadelphia?
Next Sunday I will be in Puerto Rico and I'll let you know where.
Oh, now that'll be exciting.
Yeah, by the next Sunday, that Sunday and the next Sunday, I'll have a lot to report, both for you and ISDNI.
Excellent.
Linda Howe, as always, thank you and talk to you next week.
Yeah, my best to Michael.
Okay, take care.
Linda Howe, and in just a moment, Michael Lindemann.
Lindemann was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin in 1949.
As a conscientious objector during the Vietnam War, he developed a lifelong interest in arms control, foreign affairs, and government policy.
He earned a BA degree in psychology from Antioch University, followed by two years of study at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley.
He later combined his political and psychological interests as educator, social analyst, and futurist.
In 1989, he founded the 20-20 Group, a private research organization studying forces that shape the future.
Since 1990, Michael Lindemann has earned national recognition for contributions to the study of the UFO phenomenon.
He first examined the subject from the angle of its possible connection to covert weapons development and social policy, finding substantial evidence in support of UFO claims.
He launched the Visitors Investigation Project in 1989 to conduct and publish UFO research and much more.
Just a bit of an introduction to a man who has now opened cyberspace.
That's right, cyberspace.
Internet connections, which of course connects everybody together and is a vital Very good to be here, Art.
the research that we talk about here on dreamland. Here is Michael Lindemann. Michael.
Very good to be here, Art. Thank you.
Thank you. And I guess we should begin by telling everybody exactly what this new adventure into cyberspace that you
have launched is all about.
Well, I, of course, I was listening to my colleague and esteemed friend Linda Howe speak well of it, and I always
thank her for that.
Linda has been a marvelous, pivotal contributor already to the development of this project.
What we have is an online Institute known as ISCNI or the Institute for the Study of
Contact with Non-Human Intelligence.
We have an online address at America Online, which many of your listeners will know is
the fastest growing general network provider, computer provider in America.
No doubt about it.
A fabulous place.
We're very pleased with our association with America Online and in particular the area
of America Online that we are specifically sponsored by, which is the Electronic University
Network which places us squarely in an academic framework, which is where we want to be, to
position this as credible, reasonable, non-negotiable.
Not jumping to conclusions, but bringing to bear upon the subject of human contact with other intelligence, all of the skills of intellectual inquiry, scientific research, as well as personal experience and speculation and philosophy, all of that has a place, all of it together in this environment, which Uh, has, uh, for anyone involved with America Online, you can visit it for free, have a look around, join in the message board, look at our public library, have a look at our bookstore, all of that, for the cost of the general America Online membership, which, uh, will, uh, have a million and a half people already there.
Yeah, I think they'll, they give people ten free hours, don't they?
Well, to start off, indeed, you can look at, you can join America Online for free for a month with ten free hours to have a look around.
And then if you want to go further with ISC and I, as Linda mentioned, she is one of a number of well-known researchers offering courses, classes, special private study groups.
For people who become our members, and all of that information, I don't want to take the hour talking about this.
I greatly appreciate your willingness to let me say this on the air.
But if anyone would like more information, there are two easy ways to reach us.
If you are already online, on the internet, or on America Online, you can contact us at ISCNI, this is our internet address, ISCNI at AOL.com.
If you are on America Online already, simply punch in I-S-C-N-I, that is our email address.
If you're on the internet, I-S-C-N-I at AOL.com, and I would recommend when you send us an email, say you heard about it on the Art Bell Show.
We'd like to know that.
Good.
In addition, if you would like to call us on our toll-free number, You can dial 1-800-41-ISCNI.
That's 1-800-41-ISCNI.
You will get an answering system.
If it is busy, it's because it's clogged up.
Please try again.
It runs 24 hours a day, but if it's clogged up, you'll have to call again.
We would be happy to send information.
We can send free software for anyone who wants to try it out.
On America Online, and we can send any kind of information.
And I'm sure that people, you know, some of your listeners will want to try this.
All right, Michael, good.
Tell us now about 2020.
What is 2020 besides a great name and the name of a TV show and the name of an organization?
What is 2020?
The 2020 Group Art was and remains my private research and publishing company.
I founded it in 1989 with not a thought, not a thought in my head about UFOs.
What I wanted to do in 1989 was examine forces shaping the human future.
I still want to do that today.
That's exactly what I'm about as a futurist, as a social thinker.
What I found out to my great surprise, and I still to this day, five and a half years later, I pinch myself every couple of days.
I say, are you nuts?
What is this?
What's going on here?
I found out That the UFO phenomenon and the whole constellation of phenomena associated with human claims of contact with other intelligent life is going to be one of the fundamental forces shaping the human future.
I would go so far as to say it will rank among either at the top or very near the top of the most important forces shaping the 21st century human existence.
That was not something I expected to find.
It was not something I wanted to find.
It is still something that makes me uncomfortable.
I can imagine, sure.
I believe it's a fact.
I can absolutely imagine that it would be a road that you would go down from the center that you began with very hesitantly.
Absolutely.
In fact, you know, there are days, and I've had this conversation with Linda Howe, and I've had it with other people who have essentially devoted their life to this.
None of these people started out to do that art.
Linda Howe is a gifted filmmaker, winner of several Emmys.
Other people, Bud Hopkins, a world-class artist with art hanging in various great museums.
Stanton Friedman, a propulsion expert and nuclear physicist.
These are people who didn't need or want UFOs in their life art.
That's right.
These are people who didn't need UFOs to feel complete or special.
They were already accomplished.
They already had the recognition.
They already had the job.
They didn't need UFOs.
So, to me, one of the most impressive things going in was the quality of the people who have made it their business to look into this.
One of the most impressive things about it.
People have a very wrong idea that most of the people associated with this subject, or who are taken in by this subject, are, you know, airheads, we're bees and stuff.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
These are among the most capable people.
Well, even in my career field, Michael, I do a regular weekday show, as you know, that deals mostly with very terrestrial
topics.
Yeah.
And it's a risky business, don't you know?
And invites a lot of ridicule.
And I get it. And I let it just sort of drop off of me.
I don't mind it I'm willing to take the heat because I think this is a very very important.
These are important areas to investigate It's an important part of our humanity, and I won't turn my back on it.
I know you have not well I know you won't turn your back on it.
I commend you totally for the amount of attention you've given it and the platform you give to People like Linda Howe and myself and others to talk about this.
I mean, the reach of your program is certainly a testament, not only to your own dedication, but also to the fact that out there in the world there are lots of people, Art, who already have made up their mind that this is important.
That's the good part.
That's the good sign.
But on the other side, there are people taking risks, more and more people taking risks, and some of them run afoul of the status quo, the inertia that says this is still nonsense, leave it alone, it'll go away.
We have an example, for example, this book called The Fire Officer's Guide to Disaster Control.
It's an example of what can happen to capable authors when they take a risk.
The Fire Officer's Guide to Disaster Control, in its first edition, was one of the most often used training manuals for fire departments around America.
In 1992, the authors, Kramers and Baume, brought out a second edition in which Baume, in particular, an attorney, And a well-known author and educator took an enormous risk, personally and professionally.
he put in this popular training manual for fire officers
chapter sub chapter portion of a chapter in which he dared to say
that the ufo phenomenon is absolutely real and could oppose
detrimental impact on society
and therefore it was high time
for fire departments around the country to recognize that they could not hide
from the possibility that there would be
ufo events in which the fire department would be the first line of defense
And I bet he took a flash fire of criticism.
Michael, we're at the top of the hour, so relax, get another cup of coffee or whatever it is you're drinking, and we'll be back to you in just a very few moments.
Michael Lindemann is my guest from the 2020 group.
This is dreamland.
Orvartel is recording.
1-800-618-TALK.
From the Kingdom of Nigh, we continue with your calls on Dreamland with Art Bell.
Call Art now, toll free at 1-800-618-8255.
1-800-618-TALK.
First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
702-727-1222.
Now again, here's Art Bell.
Now again, here I am.
Good evening.
Dreamland underway.
Michael Lindemann is my guest and we'll get back to him in just a moment.
Now again, here's Art Bell.
Now again, here I am.
Good evening.
Dreamland underway.
Michael Lindemann is my guest and we'll get back to him in just a moment.
A quick thing, Michael Lindemann.
Michael.
Yes, sir, Art.
Sir, Art.
Michael, we had Gordon Michael Scallion on.
Yeah.
And some of the predictions were shocking and dire.
Yes.
As a futurist who deals with, I guess, present trends in predicting future trends as opposed to having visions.
Yes.
I'm sure that you've looked at, talked to, and kept track of a lot of futurists and a lot of people who do make predictions.
Yes.
What comments do you have?
Well, I would have to comment like this.
Number one, there is a strong likelihood of major earthquakes along the west coast of the United States.
That's simply a fact.
uh... very uh... straightforward scientific uh...
organization known as the southern california earthquake uh...
study uh... counselor whatever it's called uh... star earthquake center
but just the other day predicted an eighty six percent chance of a quake
measuring seven plus within the next twenty five years Now, of course, that's extremely tame compared to what Gordon Michael Scallion is saying.
Yes.
But we know that we live in an earthquake zone that is overdue for major quakes.
One of the things they pointed out is that over the last century there has been only one quake in Southern California measuring 7+.
And that happened a year and a half ago, the Landers quake, which was mysteriously non-destructive.
Yes.
Because of being in a weird place and an unusual kind of quake.
But, there should have been, according to statistics, seven quakes of seven-plus magnitude during that same period of time, which means we're way the heck overdue, and we can expect it.
At the same time, we see devastation in many other parts of the world.
The so-called Ring of Fire, which is so named because of a tremendous amount of volcanic and seismic activity that circles the Pacific Plate, which is the plate which is literally crashing into the coast of California and causing the mountains and the seismic activity that we have in this part of the world.
All of that activity is definitely on the rise, and as far as that goes, straight science says scallions write about big quakes.
On the other hand, The redrawing of the map of the United States has no precedent in known history.
If we look at what we think has actually happened...
In the way of continental drift, we see, for example, that the shape of the continent of Africa, the shape of the continent of South America, the shape of the subcontinent of India, have not substantially changed in hundreds of millions of years, despite the fact that they have migrated thousands of miles across the face of the planet.
In other words, it is more likely that whole landmasses will move intact than it is that large pieces of that landmass will suddenly disappear into the ocean.
This is a fact of geologic science, okay?
It is a fact that we can corroborate going back close to a billion years in terms of what we know about the apparent movement of continental landmasses, and therefore, As regards the redrawing of large portions of the landmass of the planet, I have to say, science is flatly and strongly opposed to Gordon Michael Scalian's vision.
All right.
Having said that, Michael, I'm telling you, I don't get nervous that easily, particularly about this kind of thing, but with what just occurred in Japan and a long trail of recent earthquakes, something is going on.
Well, there is a great deal of seismic activity on the planet.
And I started by saying that that is true and that is predictable.
Therefore, we can say that there is likely to be additional seismic activity.
I, myself, am not particularly happy about living in Southern California.
I have no plans to be here much longer.
That's a fact.
As one who studies human behavior, just for a second, playing with the idea that Mr. Scallion's predictions are accurate, should such a major earth change occur, what would you predict, Michael, with regard to social behavior?
Well, there will be several things that have to be taken into account.
What we've seen in Kobe, Japan is a good example of what we saw here last year with the quake that happened literally one year ago, the Northridge quake, which is said to be a 6.7.
The Kobe quake, therefore, about five or six times more powerful.
But I, being 100 miles from the epicenter of the Northridge quake, was thrown out of bed at four in the morning.
I was quite stunned.
I had no idea.
I really thought the thing had happened down the street.
I was quite shocked to learn it happened 100 miles away.
The first thing I learned, however, was that I was flat broke because I hadn't had the good chance to pull any money out of my ATM the day before.
And the first thing I found out was we had a 12-hour power outage.
Well, you know, people have to realize is a lot of things go haywire right away when the electric grid goes down.
Therefore, even a moderate quake It turns into a devastating social phenomenon very, very quickly.
People should not...
Underestimate this.
Even a quake substantially less than what Scallion is talking about causes devastating ripple effects.
And people have to know if they're anywhere near a quake zone, you've got to do more preparation probably than you've done.
You will find yourself in bad shape if you don't.
And that, I think, is just prudent.
As regards a quake of the magnitude Scallion is talking about, There is no real precedent in modern times for the kind of devastation that could occur.
Well, that's why we have people in groups like the 2020 Group.
If you were to project, just project, based on a tragedy of that magnitude, what would you think?
Let's concentrate on this country.
Now, the Japanese, interestingly, because of their culture, I suppose, Reacted in a very different way.
Flashlights that cost $12 before the earthquake cost $12 after the earthquake because people would be ashamed to do anything else.
There was no looting.
There was no problem.
Here, you just can't imagine that, can you?
You know, I think I can imagine it, Art, and I think there will be some of both kinds of behavior.
There will be people who find themselves in a situation where it's easy pickings, and there will be lots of other people who look around, as they did in the Northridge quake, as they did in the aftermath of the Hurricane Andrew thing.
They looked around and they said, hey, my neighbors have lost everything.
Yes.
Time to get serious and be a human, you know?
I think the American people have been sold short in terms of the so-called loss of morality and all the rest.
I would look to the American people to rise to the occasion, in all honesty.
And I would, of course, like you, expect there would be a certain amount of looting, a certain amount of taking advantage.
But I would not expect to see a lot of gouging of prices.
I would not expect to see a lot of wholesale plunder.
What I do think there would be, though, is over time, as days tick by, as resources literally run out, that is when people begin to realize that they are actually in a life-threatening situation.
They've survived the quake, but their nerves are on edge because there are aftershocks, probably many aftershocks.
Yes.
They discover, the very first thing they find out is there is no way out of town because everyone's trying to leave at the same time.
And so lots of cars are having accidents, lots of cars are running out of gas, lots of cars are overheating, and what happens is the freeways, which are half devastated to begin with, become clogged with useless vehicles, and that becomes a very big problem.
All right, Michael, I'm going to ask you to comment on this.
I've heard reports and rumors, and I don't know what you want to call them, that a certain degree of ability to forecast earthquakes is now present.
With that as the working hypothesis here, if the authorities were to learn, say, 12 hours or even 24 hours ahead of time, that there was going to be a scallion-sized earthquake in the Los Angeles area, would it be worth warning the people?
Very, very hard call.
I think the 12-hour time frame is right on the edge of almost not enough time.
If it were 24 hours, if it were 36 hours, if they really thought they could take the risk of giving people that much warning, I think it would probably behoove some kind of organized evacuation.
But nobody wants to go to the enormous trouble of that kind of an evacuation if there's a 50% chance of being wrong.
Uh, of having that much egg on their face, of going to that much cost, I think it's going to be a while before their confidence levels line up.
Now, if there were, if there was an 80% or a 90% chance that the earthquake would hit in six hours, I think it would be highly risky.
uh... to try to uh... pull off an evacuation like that and if i were in
the situation of having to make that call it would be a very
hard day i don't know if it would make sense
so in other words uh... you might actually get more people killed
uh... by by uh... trying to evacuate in in the short uh...
term than you would by just saying nothing
And I think that makes sense, Michael, and I'll bet you if they had such a prediction, they would keep their mouths shut.
I think that they would.
I think the window of six hours or so is too short.
If it starts to turn into 24 hours, it becomes a possible evacuation.
But, you know, we have found that these very sudden, high-level movements of people are just Horrendously difficult.
We don't have any way of coordinating it.
All of the civil defense training and everything that we've been through when we were kids, we find out in the aftermath, it was all baloney.
So in other words, you would be faced with a horrid decision.
In other words, you would think, well, I could warn them and get people off of terrible locations, get people off the side of cliffs, at least, that sort of thing.
But you wouldn't be able to do that because There'd be no way to avoid starting the panic that we're talking about here, and the balance would be in more lives lost there, so you would make the decision not to say a word.
What a God-forsaken decision that would be.
It'd be a very, very hard decision.
Again, I think it has a lot to do with time frame.
I think it has a lot to do with what the prediction really is, where they think the thing is going to hit.
Um, I'm not aware that, uh, that they have, um, the kind of predicting, uh, capability that you say, although I have heard rumors to that effect, as you have.
Um, I know that they're looking for a bigger window of warning than six to 12 hours.
That's that, that's the very, the most difficult place or timeframe to make the call, because it's like you're, you're, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Is there any way to weave these coming predicted Earth changes by Scallion and others into the whole UFO phenomenon, which you have accurately said will be one gigantic story and one great effect on mankind?
Both would seem to have a great effect on mankind.
Is there any way to weave the two together?
They are being woven together.
And despite the fact that I I feel that science cannot rationally support the very extreme parts of Scallion's prediction.
I will say that there are many UFO contactees and abductees who have been told That there will be great disasters on this planet.
This is one of the most robust themes that comes up time and again when people are reporting the content of their abduction.
This has become, I think the signal is more strident.
And more consistent today than it was even a couple of years ago.
Yes.
I hear time and again that the abductees are being warned.
They are being shown graphic images.
They are seeing earth disasters.
They are seeing war.
They are seeing riots, starvation.
They are seeing many very unhappy images.
So there's a definite correlation.
Why this is occurring?
I don't know.
Is this symbolic?
Because we don't understand what abduction truly is.
I am not ready to say that abduction is literally what it appears to be, though I can say with absolute certainty that something profound is happening to people, no doubt.
Why are they being visited by these visions?
That is a real mystery.
Yes, I've talked to a number of abductees who tell Terribly similar stories to Mr. Scallion's.
So, from that avenue and from every avenue available, psychic avenue, we seem to be getting roughly the same story, and it's not a very pretty one.
It's of earth changes, political changes, social changes, exactly the sort of thing that your group studies.
That's right.
And of course we, you know, there are people who will point to that art and say, this is exactly what is meant by so-called millennial fever.
That we are approaching the millennium, that people get a little unhinged at the millennium, for reasons that can, you know, trace back to the collective unconscious, or the Jungian archetypes, or whatever you like.
And that it really doesn't amount to a hill of beans, we're gonna survive, we're gonna coast on through, and we'll look back on it and say, wasn't that all a bunch of silly business?
Gee, I hope they're right.
I hope they're right, too.
On the other hand, I think very rationally we have to say we are in a time of great uncertainty.
We are in a time of great upheaval.
There are good signs on the horizon.
There are not good signs on the horizon.
You said just a minute ago when you were talking about gold and so forth that the currency calamity that is occurring today in Mexico could have ripple effects around the world.
Well, that's just straight economics.
There's no magic about that.
It's true.
We are in a time of great uncertainty in our own country.
We are in a so-called recovery, but a lot of people don't feel it.
We are in a time when the political system has taken a very startling turn to the right, because a lot of people are very... I think that's a signal, essentially, that people are feeling extremely insecure and want a party that represents good, solid, conservative values, that says they can bring back a better time.
And I'm not saying that the Republicans are liars.
I think they're absolutely serious about what they mean to do.
I don't think they're going to succeed.
Not because they're bad or stupid, but because it's a very hard nut to crack.
And I think we're up against some extremely powerful forces that have nothing to do with being a Republican or a Democrat.
Michael, aren't we in a way, as we propose the $40 billion in loan guarantees to Mexico, Aren't we a kind of a fork in the road with nationalism going down one road and internationalism going down the other?
Isn't it finally to the point where economics is forcing the hand of politics in the international arena?
Well, that is certainly one thing that is occurring, without a doubt.
And, of course, anyone who looks at the international side knows that they're doing everything they possibly can to cobble together an international Uh, economic order, uh, bringing down, uh, tariffs if they can, uh, having, uh...
Yes, it is.
Hold it right there.
currencies and currency exchanges and an interlocking of currencies so that no one country can go
into a tailspin the way Brazil did some years ago, the way Mexico is today. All of that
is very much part of the economic order that is emerging at this time. At the same time,
there are powerful nationalistic forces and this is one of the things that threatens to
tear the world apart.
Yes, it is. Hold it right there. That's a good place to hold it. Michael Lindemann is
This is my guest from the 2020 group.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Dreamland.
Remember to get a copy of this program with Visa or Mastercard.
You can call 1-800-917-4278.
You can call 1-800-917-4278. They're there right now.
Planned on a Sunday evening, the premier program of its kind in America.
I'm Art Bell.
My guest is Michael Lindemann, and we will take some calls this hour.
Sorry it's so late to be getting to the phones, everybody, but it's been a busy night.
Let me give you the East of the Rockies number as well, if you're East of the Rockies and you have questions for Michael Lindemann.
The number is 1-800-825-5033.
is 1-800-825-5033. Repeating, east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
Absolutely.
On the line as we can with Michael. Michael, are you there?
Yes, sir.
Okay, there's a lot of people out there, Michael, with questions about predictions, with questions
about what you think is coming, and who knows what they want to know, but let's get to the
phones. Are you up for it?
You bet.
Okay, good. Here we go, ladies and gentlemen. On our east of the Rockies line, you're on
the air with Michael Lindemann. Where are you calling from, please?
Allentown, Pennsylvania.
Pennsylvania, yes, sir.
I'd like to know, as far as your predictions, what you think is coming.
I'm not sure.
What do you predict as far as the future of the human race?
Yeah, alright, that's a good overall question.
We'll take a quick shot at it.
Try to answer, the future of the human race.
We're going to go through some very rocky times.
I believe they will last anywhere from 10 to 25 or 30 years.
I believe we will come out of it relatively good, but I believe it will be a time of learning a lot of
lessons about how to live more sanely on this planet,
and I believe that if we don't learn those lessons, if we really are as pig-headed as we've been in the past,
it could go very hard on us, and I believe that this is a time when people are going to
have to make some very tough decisions about more rational living on
this planet, but I believe we're going to come out okay.
Well, in other words, there is a happy ending somewhere out there.
Yeah, it's a ways out.
There's going to be some tough times.
All right.
On the East of the Rockies line, you're on the air with Michael Lindemann.
Hi.
Yes.
Hi.
Where are you, sir?
I'm in Kemmel, Ohio.
Okay.
And I just wanted to know, basically, the abduction theory?
Yes.
Yes.
I went to bed one night and woke up the next morning with a funny scar on my arm.
and some strange memories of something that I really don't remember actually happening,
but I can't explain it.
And I was just wondering, you know, why?
How much credibility he gives to these abduction things?
Yes.
Well, let me say, in your particular case, sir, we would have to do a lot more talking before I could
determine if there was any likelihood that you experienced an abduction.
Sometimes people do...
Come up with scars overnight which have nothing to do with abduction, but let's just say that in a general way I have become convinced over a period of a number of years starting very skeptical and quite ignorant of the subject I have become convinced that there is a phenomenon a legitimate phenomenon which we call abduction and Which seems to involve highly anomalous events in people's lives.
They do not invite these events.
They are perfectly rational, sane people with nothing to gain by creating this hideous distortion and distraction in their life.
It appears that it is associated with a form of intelligence that is not known to us.
And we term that alien, but I think alien has connotations which may be inaccurate.
But I would like to say there is a genuine phenomenon.
It is affecting Many, many thousands of people.
That is my personal opinion.
I'm just curious, sir, does that comfort you or frighten you?
Neither.
It more or less confuses me.
Basically because during that brief, you know, like overnight, it seems like I lost 12 hours.
All right.
Thank you very much.
Lost time.
A lot of people reporting lost time, too, Michael.
That is correct, yes.
Okay.
I'd like to comment for just a second on the abduction phenomenon, because the most unusual thing that is occurring in abduction research today, in my opinion, is something that I was not expecting.
But it is very obviously occurring, and that is that many people, who even a year or two ago, Art, would have said to you that their abduction experience was very traumatic, very unwanted, very negative.
Have changed their mind or are in process of reevaluating their abduction experiences into something that they now term transformative, important, special.
They feel singled out.
They are on a mission.
They have been picked, chosen for something extraordinary.
It is a spiritual awakening.
This is a trend in the attitude of the abductees themselves, which is the most puzzling thing I've seen yet.
And it is happening to a lot of people.
Alright, on the first time caller line, you're on the air with Michael Linneman.
Hello.
No, my guess is they're not there.
On the west of the Rockies line, you're on the air with Michael Linneman.
Hello.
Yes, I was wondering what if any role the crop circles are playing in the prophecy?
Alright, where are you calling from?
Tacoma, Washington.
Tacoma.
Crop circles?
I take it you looked into crop circles along with Linda, Michael?
Well, I must confess I haven't done anywhere near the work that she has done, so I key off people like Linda Howe in terms of trying to address the crop circles.
What we can say with certainty about the crop circles is some of them are not explained by any of the Customary explanations starting with the explanation of hoax and there have been a bloody lot of hoaxes We have to acknowledge that right off the top But some of them are not adequately explained by any known explanation to date what they are Remains to me a huge enigma.
I am NOT going to comment beyond that I do not know if they have anything to do with signals being sent to us by some alien intelligence Some people think that so I'm not ready to say so.
All right on the wildcard line.
You're on the air with Michael Linneman.
Hello Hello, Art.
This is Bill the Fugitive calling from Seattle.
Yes, Bill.
And Michael, you're one of my heroes.
Oh, thank you.
I talked to you a couple weeks ago in regards to your video countdown to Alien Nation.
Yes.
And the question I have tonight is, what information do you have about an underground base located here in Bothell, Washington?
I don't know specifically about the base you're referring to, but what I do know is that there are underground bases littering the landscape.
There are many, many underground bases.
They have been built over a period of more than 50 years.
They were begun under a program known as the Continuity of Government Program.
They have continued to this day.
The level of sophistication is unexpectedly high.
The size, the number, the cost, and everything else about underground-based construction in this country is literally off the scale in terms of the general black budget and the general public expectations.
Now, we go the next step and we say, as many people do allege, aliens are in some of these underground bases.
Hideous, grotesque experiments are conducted in these underground bases.
I know nothing about that.
My personal opinion is I tend to doubt it.
But the existence of the bases themselves, there is no doubt whatsoever.
No question.
Absolutely none.
And there are hundreds of them at a minimum.
All right.
Good morning, you're on the air.
Oh, good evening, I'm sorry.
You're on the air with Michael Lindemann.
Hello.
Hello there, where are you?
Uh, Phillipsburg, Pennsylvania.
Yes, sir.
I was just wondering, uh... Turn your radio off, please.
Everybody's got to do that when they get on the air, otherwise it's going to be hopelessly confusing.
Okay.
Alright, go ahead.
To what effect would Pennsylvania be affected by all these abnormalities.
Alright, thank you.
Okay, Pennsylvania is, I think, in a rather good position, actually.
Pennsylvania is made primarily out of solid granite, as far as I know.
It is not... it remains, as far as I know, on all of the maps
that have been redrawn after the disaster.
That doesn't mean you're not going to feel the effects, because I don't think anyone is going to escape feeling the
effects.
But even in the worst-case scenario, as far as I know, most of Pennsylvania rides it out pretty well.
Congratulations.
Not a bad place at all.
Hi there, how are you doing?
Phoenix.
place at all.
Alright, on the west of the Rockies line, you're on the air with Michael Lindemann.
Hi.
Hi there, how you doing?
Okay, where are you?
Phoenix.
Phoenix, yes sir.
Yes sir.
I'm calling regarding underground base theory and such, are there underground bases?
uh... located in phoenix if you know like maybe glendale area
let me say i i really cannot pinpoint the location of very many underground
bases what i do know for a fact is that the former director of uh... the sort of leading
underground base in america base called not whether which is the presidential
underground bunker in times of nuclear war that basically exists a little bit
outside of washington dc a man by the name of j leo barasa who was to
be director of that base for many years
uh... went on the larry king show about a year and a half ago and said that he
knew for a personal fact but there was at least one gigantic underground base in
every state of the union and that was a very very conservative estimate
But what are we talking about here?
We're talking about an underground base, Mount Weather being an example, with a 200,000 square
foot floor plan.
Built out of solid granite and capable of withstanding a direct nuclear hit at ground
level.
How far would that be located from where I'm at?
Well, the one I just mentioned is in Virginia, but what I am saying is that this gentleman
said there was at least one such base in every state of the union.
I know for a fact that those are only the bases associated with the so-called continuity of government.
Okay, and with these underground bases, do you think experimental aircraft would be tested from them?
That is not their principal purpose.
Their principal purpose is to ride out times of grave disasters such as nuclear war or other grave disasters, but nuclear war was certainly the principal motivating factor.
There are underground laboratories which are needed, which are built specifically to house them or to shield them from, for example, cosmic radiation, if that kind of radiation would cause a problem in the experiments being done and so forth.
There are bases that are done that are underground simply because that is the best place to get uniform temperature and humidity, which some laboratories require.
So these are other reasons.
Another reason is underground bases are used for the storage of sensitive materials, currencies, ...sensitive chemicals and so forth, as well as underground nuclear waste.
There are many reasons to build these bases.
Michael, a sociological question here.
I had a guest last week talking about underground bases, and what he basically said was, he's opposed to them, he's opposed to the secrecy surrounding them, he's opposed to the entire concept of them, and as far as he's concerned, it makes a nuclear conflict All the more likely.
What would be your view of that?
I would say that there was, throughout the period of the Cold War, a fabulous conceit.
Let me put it that way.
That an elite group of people, numbering some tens of thousands, would ride out any conceivable disaster.
And that because they knew they could do that, They took risks, which today appear to be totally insane.
I do believe we have at least gotten almost out of that mentality, but there are certainly people who still believe it, and there are certainly people still preparing for it.
Art, we are not out of the woods.
All right, and we're not out of time, but we're close.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Lindemann.
Hi.
Hello there.
No, you're not.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Lindemann.
Good evening.
I'm looking at my National Geographic Atlas here and I see that the Pacific Mid-Atlantic runs right smack into California at the Baja Peninsula and goes right into the continental United States.
Why wouldn't that permit some kind of a very large earthquake?
I'll listen for your answer.
California is a sitting duck for an earthquake.
There's going to be an earthquake.
No question.
Probably several.
No question.
All right.
Ease to the Rockies.
You're on the air with Michael Linneman.
Hello.
Hello there.
Going once, twice, three times.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hi, this is Bob in Phoenix.
Hello, Bob.
Things we've got to keep our eye on are public officials, and if they all of a sudden take off for a coffee break and never come back, they're probably headed for the underground tunnel.
Well, that's an interesting point.
As a matter of fact, there has been a so-called brain drain to some of these underground bases.
There's talk, for example, that a lot of these people are being relocated to the center of Australia, to a wonderful place known as Alice Springs.
I have no technological reason to think so.
I have heard rumors to that effect.
There are certain people who think so.
uh... several of our agencies and others from international agencies are that
maybe the spookiest underground based on the planet but there is some talk of that so it is your ideas all a
little bit science-fiction even though i totally
it's a chance that the uh... earthquake command a i have no
technological reason to think so i have heard rumors to that effect there are
certain people think so i have no proof what do you think about the rain
uh... michael on the and uh... its relationship to uh...
birth movements The rain that we're having?
Yes, tremendous rain.
Well, what we have to notice is that weather in general is becoming more extreme.
This has been Discussed for some years now, we are seeing, for example, great wind storms of higher magnitude than we've been seeing in the past.
We are seeing record rains in various parts of the world.
We are also seeing record droughts in various parts of the world.
All of this looking like a more extreme weather conditions than we've seen before.
Okay, Michael, and this is important.
The extreme is real.
I sit here as a talk host reporting on this kind of thing all the time.
I say, hey, look, the weather is stranger now.
The earthquakes are more now.
But I'm never sure, Michael, and I know that you do this kind of work.
So, in other words, when we say it is getting more extreme, we're right.
Yes, you are right, and we have to be very careful because, having said, we see a tendency toward more extreme.
For example, we see a tendency toward higher mean global temperatures.
Only a few tenths of a degree, but it is there.
We have to ask ourselves, is this within natural variation?
Because there are cycles.
They run a long period of time.
They do not necessarily mean we're heading for, you know, global catastrophe.
These cycles have a way of turning around.
The planet is highly absorptive of these changes, so we don't know yet whether this really points to disaster, but we have to say if, for example, human behavior is contributing, as it may be, to the so-called global warming effect, and there are people who say that's not really happening.
I happen to think it is, Art, but it's up for grabs.
We don't have proof.
Okay, so we have to just say, well, okay, how does the data fall today?
In my book, the data says we are Contributing to the changing climate toward more extreme.
And we should behave ourselves in a way that would ameliorate that.
That's what I would say.
Alright.
Michael, time is so short.
For one, we're going to book you for an entire show shortly.
Okay, I'd love it.
Two, I want to give you an opportunity to plug whatever it is you want to plug right now.
ISCNI or whatever else you would like to plug, go right ahead.
All right, thank you very much.
I would like to just say again to your listeners, ISCNI is the Institute for the Study of Contact with Non-Human Intelligence.
It is a new online information service on America Online.
I'll give you two ways to reach us.
If you are already online on the Internet or on America Online, our email address is ISCNI at AOL.com.
That's I-S-C-N-I at AOL.com.
Send us an email.
We'll send you information by email.
Mention the Art Bell Show.
Let us know you heard it on Art Bell.
If you don't have a computer and want information, or if you're not online yet, call our 800 number.
It's 1-800-4-1-I-S-C-N-I.
It's 1-800-4-1-I-S-C-N-I.
We'll send you information.
My guess is you're going to get a lot of response.
Well, I appreciate it very much to be able to tell your listeners, Art.
All right.
Is there any last thought you would like to leave everybody with?
I'd like to say this.
As it's often been said, watch the money, and this year we are seeing money going into UFO research on a scale that has never been seen before.
This is something I want to pursue with you next time we're together, Art.
There are millions of dollars of private money going into UFO research today, and that says to me that, you know, the fix is in.
Michael, it has been a pleasure.
Thank you, sir.
It always is a pleasure, and we will have you back again soon.
We'll contact you to arrange a date.
We appreciate it and look forward to it.
Thanks again.
Thank you, Michael.
Michael Lindemann of the 20-20 Group, and now a new online service called ISCNI, as the power of the Internet grows.
I'll leave you with these thoughts.
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What a dreamland it has been.
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We'll begin once again next Sunday at 7 o'clock Pacific Time.
Good night.
This has been Dreamland.
A program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience
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Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not that.
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land.
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