Gordon Michael Scallion’s 1979 visions—later validated by a gestalt therapist—predicted 1995’s catastrophic earthquakes (9.0+ in Palm Springs, 7.2 near Portland, New Madrid Fault) and volcanic eruptions, including Mexico’s Publica Petal, causing global darkness and land distortions like lost continents. Linda Moulton Howe’s 1994 research, funded by a Colorado sheriffs grant, ruled out disease or predators for animal mutilations, citing cooked hemoglobin and grass anomalies linked to advanced energy tech. Michael Lindemann’s ISCNI (AOL.com/ISCNI) explores non-human intelligence, with researchers like Bud Hopkins and Stanton Friedman documenting UFOs, abductions, and underground bases tied to continuity programs. Millions now fund such investigations, signaling a shift toward accepting anomalous phenomena as real—challenging mainstream skepticism and hinting at deeper, interconnected forces shaping humanity’s future. [Automatically generated summary]
Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
This is Dreamland.
Good evening.
It is another Dreamland.
And as promised, Gordon Michael Scallion in just a moment.
A lot of people have been waiting for his appearance this evening.
I'm one of them.
Now, I want to preface this entire program with a bit of a warning.
If predictions of natural disaster, earth changes, earthquakes, big time in the news recently bother you, I would recommend that you tune out now.
If you have small children in the room, I recommend you spirit them away.
Because some of this material is no doubt going to be disturbing in view of the recent earth changes that have occurred.
So in just one moment, Gordon Michael Scallion, we're going to take care of a little bit of business here.
First, WIBXAM in Utica, New York.
Welcome to the network.
Dreamland topping now, I think, 92 stations as we continue to grow at just an incredible rate.
So that's WIBX in Utica, New York.
I think you're going to enjoy this program.
And it will take you a little while to figure it out.
So just sit back, relax, and prepare yourself.
Gordon Michael Scallion is the author of The Future Map of the United States, 1998 to 2001.
He is an internationally known and respected futurist and a spiritual visionary, now considered by many to be one of the most accurate intuitives of our time.
Educated originally in electronics, Mr. Scallion experienced a health crisis, we'll ask him about that, and subsequent spiritual awakening in 1979 that left him with the gift of prophecy.
Some of his more notable published prophecies are the April 22, 1992 Los Angeles, California quake, the June 28th Landers and Big Bear California quakes, the January 17th Northridge quake, as well as three of the most significant natural disasters of our times.
Hurricane Andrew, the Blizzard of 93, and the Mississippi Floods of 93.
He has appeared on the Fox television program Sightings and Encounters and the NBC television special Ancient Prophecies.
He will also be featured or was in Ancient Prophecies 2.
That was a two-hour prime time follow-up special.
Mr. Scallion's prophecies are updated monthly in his newsletter, The Earth Changes Report, and we will be telling you how to get it.
So, in just one moment, and after these commercial messages, Gordon Michael Scallion.
Many changes, almost earth changes, have occurred in Mexico, and I guess most of you know about it.
To imagine that a currency devaluation could never occur here in the United States is naive.
It just stopped right in the middle of a presentation.
It was about a quarter of a million dollar presentation.
Oh, my.
And the client thought I was having a stroke.
I didn't know what I was having.
And so I was then taken to a hospital.
I wasn't in pain.
It was more of fear and just being very, very frightened, not knowing what was wrong.
And while I was in the hospital, they were going to keep me overnight for observations and do tests in the morning.
And so that night, I was watching television and just writing some notes, just trying to pass the time and not think about it.
And the room filled up with all forms of light colors and rainbows.
At which time, of course, I thought that indeed there was really something terribly wrong with me.
And I reached for the nurse call button and went to grab it and pulled.
And the call button ended up swinging on the end of the bed, and I couldn't reach it.
And I had IVs in both of my arms, and the bottle started swinging back and forth.
And so I looked up and was trying to figure out how I can disconnect these bottles and go out into the hallway.
And then something just came over me, and I calmed down for some strange reason.
And a person appeared, or at least a form of a person, and proceeded to tell me to write down some things.
And I don't know if at that time if I was totally terrified or whether I remember at that time I was thinking that maybe it was something in the IVs that I was reacting to, some kind of hallucinatory experience.
I wrote down what she had said, and about 20 minutes later, a nurse came through the calls, and I asked her if there was any kind of equipment being used in the hallway or is anything going on.
I'm really afraid to even tell her what had happened.
So I stayed up a good part of that night.
I did not sleep.
The next morning, my the nurse came in, the doctor came in, asked me how I was, and I was able to speak.
I responded.
And so he ran through some tests and suggested that I might want to see a different kind of a doctor.
And that doctor, of course, was a psychiatrist.
He thought that maybe I was going through some stress, at which time I was living on a 30-foot sailboat.
I didn't think I was.
So after the test, I left the hospital, went outside, and I remembered there was an Irish setter dog sitting waiting for his master, I assume.
And I could see all these rainbow colors on this dog.
And then I looked at people, and I can also see these various colors and the trees.
And so I just shook my head, and I went back inside, and I said, look at my voice is okay now, but there's something wrong with my eyes.
I went to him the next day, the day after I got out, and he suggested that I go through at least a battery of three exams.
And then he also thought that I might want to do some other things.
And so after the first exam, he said, I really don't see anything that would indicate deep stress in your life.
And he said, but I really think you should get a drug test and stuff like that.
He said, I know you don't take drugs, but I really think you should do that to see if there's something that's maybe on your boat because of the fumes or something.
I think my experience now, after being in this field for 15 years and meeting some very gifted intuitives and healers out there, is that that's a common trait that seems to go through it, especially if you push hard, trying to develop the ability, whatever level you're doing it.
You know, when the body is not quite ready for it and you push too fast, these headaches.
And I have observed that literally with hundreds of clients of mine and numerous very gifted people, as I said.
I think the gift was given to all of us by our Creator.
And I think what happens is that depending on how you're wired, we have to get in here to astrology and other belief systems.
But in a capsule, I can only explain my rationale from what I've been through.
And it was that each of us come wired a certain way.
And it's like we all have these abilities.
Some of us can do it more easily.
I've met people, for example, who are what I would consider extraordinary intuitive.
I mean, these people are so gifted.
And yet I know them personally, and they'll never use that gift because there's some part of their background that just will not let them use that gift.
And so I think it has to Do with how we're moving through life.
And I think once we recognize that this is not a negative thing, that this can be used for good and for service to our brothers and sisters, then I think it flourishes.
When did you turn the corner from being frightened of it, which certainly would have been my reaction, to trying to mull over what was happening to you to the point where you said, uh-huh, I guess I've got a gift and we're going to start using this positively.
I wish I could say that there was a point where I actually made that conscious decision based on a whole bunch of rationale and just good, warm feelings.
But what happened was that two men appeared at my door one day.
I was living in a very secluded place.
No one knew where I was, not even my family.
And my family did not know until recently, in fact, after all these years of what I do.
The only reason they knew it is because I was on national television, and then they found out that way.
And so these two men came to the door, and they said they knew who I was.
They knew about my experience.
They knew about my losing my voice.
There were things that I hadn't told anybody.
And one person said, look, my friend here is ill and he's dying.
And he says, and we don't know what to do about it, but we were told that you could.
And I kept saying, well, who told you?
I said, you know, how do you know this?
And I said, I can't do any of these things.
And after about probably a good half an hour of this kind of conversation going back and forth, the man finally said to me, he says, look at, he says, if you just hold on to his hand, he says, and just allow things to flow through you, he says, you'll be able to help him.
And finally, I think he literally badgered me into it.
I finally made the statement.
I said, look at, I said, I can't help you.
I said, I don't know the first thing about any of this.
I said, I'm really going through a hard time right now.
And then everything was quiet for maybe a couple of months, six weeks.
And then all of a sudden, he came back.
And he said, I just want to let you know that my friend is well.
And then he just started sending people to me.
And then for most of the 80s, people from around the world started coming.
And that's how I got through it.
I got through it literally by being forced into it.
And as I got into it more and more, it seemed like it was something that was helpful, but it certainly was taking a toll on me physically and mentally.
And then in 1991, after doing thousands of various consultations, it stopped.
I no longer could see things for people, and it was like a rest.
And then all of a sudden, I started seeing visions of the earth as a living consciousness.
Just like the same way I was seeing these individuals going through pain and trying to get them back on path, I saw the same thing with the earth.
I mean, the earth all of a sudden became a living being to me.
And this was not part of my aware consciousness.
My thoughts weren't environmental at all.
I was in a different place.
More technical is kind of my thought process and how it worked.
And that's when I shifted my whole focus and then began to say that people need to know about what's going to be happening so they can prepare or hopefully if enough people get together, we can modify what's going to happen.
we're going to move quickly into earth changes do you still retain the ability to in effect um call a human condition to to um what was it It was diagnostics.
I could diagnose what was going on and give corrective remedies for it.
So some part of my super consciousness had this knowledge from some place.
But as far as the actual healing, that's not something that I've ever done or that I'm aware of.
Many people have said to me, and I literally had hundreds of letters of people saying that I had shook their hand or something, but that is not something that I consciously am aware of.
I guess everybody out there knows that lately we have had some extreme.
The Japan earthquake is just awful.
I was talking before the show about it, and we both feel the same way.
It's horrible.
The death toll up now around 5,000 or over.
It may be over by now.
And just tremendous human misery.
And so earthquakes are on many, many minds out there.
I have your predictions for 1995.
And I must say, Gordon, this kind of scares me a little bit, and I don't scare that easily.
And I guess you would say, Don't be scared, be prepared.
So, we're going to talk a little bit, if we can, out of the bottom of the hour here about what you believe is coming and about how you feel about all of this.
There must be a terrible, weighty feeling of responsibility to be able to diagnose people's ills, or even more so now, being able to predict earth changes.
Very selfishly, there isn't a night that goes by when I don't say a prayer that I wish that I would see something different.
I mean, there's so many positive things in the world, and I really, you know, given my brothers, I would focus a lot on the positive, and in particular on children, which is a great question.
Before I begin, I'd like to preface it by indicating that one of the jobs of a futurist is to present their visions with the understanding that they're not always correct.
They're not 100%.
I see my role much as a weather person.
I see things coming.
I can warn.
I was a sailor when I was in Florida.
I always listened to weather reports because if there was going to be a storm or a hurricane blowing or a spout or something, I wanted to know about it so that I could prepare for it.
Probably what would be helpful is to get an overview of the year first, like a little capsule.
1995 is going to be perhaps the most dynamic year.
It obviously already started that way from a geophysical point of view, but there's a lot more dynamics coming this year.
In the 14 or 15 years that I've been seeing vision, the ones that I saw in December, which is the ones that I published in January, were so vivid, so clear.
And it's not all gloom and doom.
There's some very positive things that are going to happen this year.
The things that are going to happen that people need to know about is that the weather patterns that we've been seeing, this erratic weather pattern, these are going to increase significantly.
So people who, especially in the Northwest, Oregon, Washington, coastal areas, and also Southern California from L.A. down to San Diego, those areas in particular, weather-wise, are going to go through a constant stress conditions.
Rain is the keynote that I see for 1995.
Massive flooding.
Instead of when we had the floodings in the Mississippi, we're going to see floodings now throughout the country.
We're also going to move to three seasons in many parts of the country in 1995.
Three.
We're going to have four seasons.
Like New England, for example, has four seasons.
We're only going to have three in 95.
The weather is going to change that much, the temperatures.
One of the predictions I had made back on December 7th was that we were going to see a winter where we were going to break weather records day after day, that it was just going to be running warmer and warmer and warmer, followed by rains.
And so we're going to see that.
We're going to see that in the Northeast.
We're going to see that in the southeast part of the country as well.
So major weather pattern changes.
And the keynote, if we were to look at in 1996, looking back, and we were to say what was 95 like, we would say it was the year of the wind, because uh all I see visions of are constant rain driven by strong winds,
massive tornadoes, whatever we experience with the total number of tornadoes and cyclones and things of that nature, and any year in recorded history, 95 will exceed those significantly so.
So we're going to be seeing a lot of wind damage.
So the weather elements are all going to change, and it's going to be a constant thing rather than a sporadic thing.
One is that it'll occur in a dream state, which is a lucid dream, and I can see it in full detail, and because it's lucid, I can actually interact with it.
The other way is I see it consciously.
It'll just snap into my mind wherever I happen to be.
And it's kind of like watching three television screens.
There's usually three visions showing some aspects of the same scene.
So, for example, I might be watching a scene that's on a beach.
And the second scene might be more colorful, and I might see waves coming in.
And then in the third scene, I might see waves and wind and everything.
So what I've learned is that these three visions are three aspects of the same prediction.
And the one that's the most colorful out of the three is usually the one that I pay attention to.
I think what it's shown me is that not everything is a reality that will necessarily happen.
And then eventually what happens is that if I see many visions that I don't see again and I don't publish those, I only publish the visions that I see at least three times.
If I see the same vision three times over a period of weeks or months or even years, then I will publish it.
I've learned.
Usually by the time I see it for the third time, it's usually just one screen and the other two screens are kind of a grayish color and kind of washed out in less detail.
And what that tells me is that the other two probabilities no longer are there, that what I'm seeing is probably going to occur.
If I'm with a group, for example, if I'm doing a class or I'm doing some kind of a public presentation and people are there and ask questions about a particular subject matter, very often it will induce the vision.
The difficulty always is interpreting the vision.
They're not symbolic.
The visions that I typically see are actual experiences.
I have to look at all three of these visions.
And then, again, I've trained myself to look for the ones with a brighter color.
I've had to literally train myself to be able to shut them off because after the second or third time where I almost had major car accidents, I literally had to work to train this.
So what happens is the visions are still running and I kind of see through them.
It's kind of like I just fix my eyes in kind of a stare glaze and I'm able to see right through the vision and focus on something farther away.
Because typically the visions that I'm seeing, even though they're in my mind's eye, to me, they appear to be three or four feet in front of me when I'm looking at them.
So I can even see periphery vision of these trees.
But I've learned to be able to tune around it.
But the vision will just keep running, and then if I don't pay attention to it, the vision will come back.
That's probably the most difficult thing, but I've had some help along the way.
Usually what I do is I look for some things.
I've trained myself to look for details, and that's why I wait three visions.
Like the first detail I might be able to tell, I'll give you an example.
You know, the recent Japan quake that occurred in Kobe.
I published and predicted that there was going to be a quake that was going to occur, and I gave the magnitude range.
In the vision, I actually saw the needle swinging back and forth.
And so I knew that it was going to be somewhere in the mid-7 range.
And then I saw the islands of Japan, and I saw the big sign.
I saw like a map.
I saw Honshu.
So I knew it was somewhere in the region of Honshu, but I didn't know the timing of it.
I just knew that it was there.
And I looked to see the terrain.
Was there snow on the ground?
Was it warm?
Was it cold?
And that's where the difficulty goes, because with Japan, for example, I've had before December 7th, when I did my predictions for 95, I probably had 10 predictions for different pieces of Japan, different quakes entirely.
And three of those have already occurred.
Since December 7th, I've had over 20 visions of Japan.
And so there are multiple ones.
And so it becomes very difficult.
Hasually what will happen is that if it's something very, very important I've noticed, if I think about it, you know, like if I'm searching, wondering, you know, is this going to be in the wintertime?
You know, sometimes I'll actually hear a voice, an inner voice in my head that will, in fact, on the April 22nd, 92 LA quake and the June 28th, a voice told me a range of a week.
It gave me a week range, and the same thing on Hurricane Andrew.
So I had some kind of an inner voice that it's going to occur between this date and this date.
That doesn't happen very often.
It seems to happen maybe one in 100 times.
Otherwise, I just have to really pay attention, write every detail I can about the vision, wait for it to occur three times, and hope I have enough information.
What we also need to know is that what probably most of your listeners and most of us don't know is that when they publish an actual quake event, like let's say it's a 7-0 quake, the 7-0 quake is usually an average of many sensors scattered throughout an area.
I've been predicting for two years that we're going to have a birth of a new volcano in California, Mammoth Lakes.
There's indications now that something is going on there.
There's enough geologists working in that area right now trying to figure out what's causing all the trees to die and things that are going on.
If that should become a reality, that's a signal, and we would, you know, if all of a sudden we start seeing on the news that this volcano is beginning to break the ground, start to come out with some venting and some steaming, then probably within weeks, we would see the quake.
Another warning sign, I've been given kind of a sequence scenario.
The scenario was that a quake would hit in Japan first.
This would be within a period of about two weeks, we would see four quakes in the world in specific places with magnitudes that would be greater than seven.
The sequence was that it would happen first in Japan.
The next sequence would be is that we would see something that would occur in the Indian Ocean someplace.
The third sequence would be is it would go back to Japan.
And then the fourth sequence is that it would hit the west coast of the United States.
And specifically here, I've targeted Palm Springs, but I really see this almost as a fracture in the ground.
So I see it much larger than that.
So if this sequence starts, now this sequence may have begun, but my sense is that at least I'm hopeful that this quake will come later in the year rather than earlier, because I haven't had any visions since the Japan quake other than more quakes in Japan.
So those are two scenarios to watch for that would be early warning signs.
If the sequence starts of the four, these things will all occur within a matter of two to three weeks.
It sure feels as though the sequence is underway now.
You say you're hopeful it'll be later in the year.
It would seem to me to be kind of a stretch to say this is not the sequence because it's going to have to roughly repeat itself if it's later, isn't it?
Right now there's nothing significant going on in the Indian Ocean, so that would be the next thing to watch for.
I have felt that there was going to be a quake this year in Japan greater than eight.
So I'm quite certain that that will occur in the region of Honshu this year.
That hasn't occurred yet.
There's triggers that there's like three triggers, and the triggers that I see are early February, we miss that, we go to maybe the early summertime, like June, and if we miss that, then we look into December.
Those are like three potential windows for this sequence to happen.
I can only describe what the vision is indelibly marked in my brain, because this particular quake, the prophecy in 1989 that was given to me, was that there would be three quakes in California before even larger things happened.
The first one, they said it would be about a sixth, and it would occur in the LA area, and I defined where it was, the magnitude and the epicenter.
Then it said it would follow by a quake that would be larger in the seven range, and that would occur a few months later.
And then the third one would be larger, which would be in the eight range, 8.3 range.
Now, that has not occurred yet.
The first two quakes have occurred.
So the one that I've been watching, or this Palm Springs area quake, rips all the way to Bakersfield.
So it goes from Palm Springs to Bakersfield.
If you get your map out and draw a line between those two, you'll have a pretty good idea of the terror that I'm seeing.
What I saw was that it was clearly Los Angeles, and I've been there a couple of times, and so I'm familiar with the city.
And the thing that disturbed me was that when I saw the vision, all I could see was this glitter everywhere.
And I thought it was water at first.
I thought water had come in.
And then when the vision repeated itself, I realized that what we were looking at was 10 to 15 feet of glass in the street.
So the buildings themselves, the windows, had all popped out and had fallen down to the pavement and literally had filled up and covered cars.
What had happened is that that whole area had almost become isolated.
Like Santa Barbara was kind of like an island.
So part of California had become flooded.
When this thing had cracked, coastal water had rushed in and filled it.
So the actual terrain itself had shifted and dropped to a good portion of California, or at least that good portion of that portion of California, had lost its blend and had become reclaimed by the sea.
Your state will experience earthquakes this year, and in the short term, the area that you're in, based on my future map, would indicate that in the short term here is the next couple of years, there wouldn't be a concern that I would see.
From 98 to 2001, my visions show your area to be at high risk.
So the things to watch for is to, my future map shows things occurring in stages.
I have an inset.
It says this is the first thing that will happen, and the second thing, and the third thing.
And so if the first thing does not happen, then you simply forget everything I've said.
It would not have any validity.
But if they do happen, then the conditions are such that it may very well happen.
Moving east, you have predicted, brace yourselves, everybody, on the New Madrid Fault or New Madrid Fault in the 95-96 span to be hit by a magnitude 9.0 earthquake, plus or minus 0.5, yes?
I see 13 colonies, not 13 states seceding, but I see when I look to the future, 98 to 2001, I see that there's been a complete change in our geophysical structure of the United States, which would require new maps.
And I also see a new economic structure and a new political structure.
And what I see is colonies where several states band together.
This happens and is created because of two factors.
One is that the United States can't, and even now it can't handle the debt service that it has.
Every time one of these natural disasters occurs, it gets another $10 or $20 billion.
You can't get insurance in many places now in the West Coast, and this is going to just get worse.
So I see as part of that, and also part of the fact that earthquakes have just caused such a condition that states have to band together, and they become colonies.
We still have a presidential figure, but the colonies are independent.
And we move more to a different, there's new commodities exchanges that's not in New York City anymore.
And colonies actually barter between each other through this exchange more for real goods, which is silver, gold, or commodities of one form or another.
If you were to take a pin and put it on Missouri, just put it in the center of Missouri, and then if you were to take every state around Missouri, each one of those states will be hard hit as a result of it.
So it isn't an isolated area.
This is an entirely...
I had predicted to watch for a vertical thrust quake.
I was on a program called Sightings over a year ago, more than a year ago, and I said watch for a vertical thrust quake that will occur in the Los Angeles area.
And that's going to signal a change of the quake.
A vertical thrust is when the land is thrust up very sharply, very quickly, rather than a rolling action where a quake kind of rolls like a wave.
What I see happening is that the magma of the Earth, the Earth core itself, is shifting its position.
I believe it began its first shift in 1932.
And it's accelerating it now.
It's kind of sloshing around like water in a bottle that you would move around.
And it's going to cause large sections of land to be distorted in one place.
So some places you're going to see land thrust upwards.
In another part of the world, you'll see land that will actually thrust downward.
And this is, if we follow any mythical studies such as lost continents like Lemuria or Atlantis, this is what my visions have indicated actually indeed did happen.
And this is in a cycle that's repeating itself again.
So we're going to see a very large area, and the new drift spot will be one such area, where the landmass will be pushed upward very fast, and then it will settle back down very fast.
Yeah, and it seems like we have a lot of indications.
You know, in 1991, when I made my first public appearance and I said these things, I said we're going to see erratic weather, we're going to see fires, we're going to see quakes, and I mentioned all these things.
And at that time, there wasn't a lot going on in the world.
But if we look at 1991 to now, we see that the world has really changed.
We have this electronic media system that immediately focuses on and shows us major things.
What we're not seeing every day is what I see on all of our computers here.
We're tied into every news service in the world just about.
And so I'm aware of so much that's going on that just isn't being published.
And right now, unless there is a major loss of property or a major loss of life, these things just aren't getting published.
What you have summed up with in your predictions is 95 to 97 will be seen as the beginning stages of what will become known as and fulfilled as Armageddon.
It begins at Armageddon, you know, it's from the biblical text and from both Testaments, but most of the biblical work or the Quran for that matter or any text is open to interpretation.
Scholars really aren't sure.
It was written in such a way as to force you to really think about what's being said.
And I can only share what my understanding does, is it based on my visions.
Because many times I see visions of the past.
I don't see it just of the future, I see it of the past.
And sometimes these visions can last for an hour.
It's like me attending the lecture.
And so I've learned an awful lot about ancient cultures.
I just got back from Egypt where I learned all about the Great Pyramid of the Sphinx, what's going on, and why that's probably the most important thing in 1995 that's about to happen.
There is going to be major discoveries made momentarily here.
I am involved in it in a small way, but we are going to find the records that were left, like an archive, like a time capsule that was left there.
And what it's going to show is that the site there, the structure, is much older than anybody could imagine.
And it's also going to have prophecies for our days, for the years for the 90s, literally, up to the year 1998.
So we're going to have prophecies for our times.
Plus, we're going to have a record of the people who built them, where they came from, their knowledge that they knew that the changes were going to come, that earth changes were going to happen during that time period.
And so they archived this information to be found at a later time.
And this is all going to come to the surface, and it's going to completely change history, and it's going to change our understanding of who we really are.
We've really been here a lot longer, and we've gone through earth changes before.
And I guess there have been a lot of studies with regard to nuclear warfare about the upper atmosphere and what would happen and the nuclear winter and all the rest of that.
Well, it seems to me mankind, even with all his bombs, is not going to be able to compete with 12 volcanoes going off at once.
And the world, it seems to me, would enter a sort of nuclear winter, would it not?
What advice would you have for people, and there are massive numbers of people affected by your immediate predictions, really all of us, but in the most affected areas, Gordon, what advice would you give them?
Some of the things that I'm saying are, you know, people will hear this one of two ways.
They'll either hear it and immediately go into a denial, and other people will hear it in panic, and then another group will hear it and want to know what we can do.
I think that the most important thing that people can do is pretty much what your show is about.
It's learning to trust that inner part of us that has answers for all these things, that is able to sort out truth from fiction and right from wrong and just guidance and direction.
And I'm convinced that the only thing that I can really tell people and to encourage them to do is to begin to really trust your intuition and begin to listen within.
I can tell you things like get an emergency preparedness kit, which I think everybody should do anyways.
All of our family here, we have one in each of our cars.
So we have enough for three days if we got ourselves isolated.
We have a lot of things put away, emergency rations and generators.
You can do all of that stuff.
And I've done it, and then I forgot about it.
I did what I could do.
But I know that the possibilities are that when something happens, I might not be in my car or I might not be in my house where I can have access to this.
I might be on the road someplace.
And so I know that in the end, it's going to have to be some form of inner spiritual guidance that's going to allow me to get through these times.
We'll see the National Guard first, and then next, and we'll see the military.
And this will occur.
We're also going to see the best of people.
We're going to see People do extraordinary things and people open their doors.
We're going to see the best and the worst of us during these conditions.
Cities themselves are going to be the most difficult place to be.
Rural areas are going to fare better.
There's lower numbers.
If you take a place like Los Angeles, for example, everything is connected by bridges.
All water comes in from a long distance through aqueducts.
If you look at Manhattan themselves, and Manhattan is going to be devastated before the end of this decade, everything comes over a bridge or an aqueduct.
You lose water, and all we have to do is just look at what's going on in Kobe.
I mean, here was earthquake preparedness country.
And they had drills, and they really worked at this.
And yet all of that, I'm convinced that many of the people who were saved were saved from an intuitive flash, you know, to maybe be away that day or to pay attention to your dreams that are constantly giving us guidance.
And the same thing is going to happen in the Bay Area of California, and it's going to happen in New York, and it's going to happen in L.A., and it's going to happen in San Diego.
These things will happen.
We're talking about a whole new type of Earth movement that we haven't seen before.
50 miles from where I am would not be towards the coast.
Anything near a coastal area or any kind of a tributary, a river, major rivers like the St. Lawrence Seaway or the Mississippi, which will break all the way and go down to the Gulf.
So you want to be away from water.
And personally, I love water.
So given my choice, I would still be down in Florida.
But the place where I am is my visions have indicated is a solid long-term area.
We're going to, in sort of a reverse order here, go now to Colorado, where Linda Howe, you never know where Linda's going to be, and this week it happens to be Colorado.
So we're going to go get a quick report from her, and then we're going to proceed west to the Santa Barbara area and yet another futurist who's been on the program before, who I know that you're going to enjoy, Michael Lindman.
So from something, by the way, called the 2020 Group.
This week, I have been in Denver, Colorado for the Colorado County Sheriffs Association's annual meeting.
The association asked Dr. John Alchuler, a pathologist and hematologist, to present data from our 1994 animal mutilation research grant that we've been doing for the last almost 12 months.
Dr. Alchuler and I are now preparing a written summary of our 1994 work, which clearly has shown in several unusual animal deaths, including two buffalo in Colorado, that disease and predators were not the culprits.
In approximately one-quarter to one-third of the cases this year and in previous years, we have been able to see that the excisions reveal cooked hemoglobin, meaning the tissue was cut with high heat, as I've reported before on Dreamland.
We also showed the sheriff several tissue samples from the mutilators' excisions, meaning tissue was cut from where the excisions had been made in the first place.
And we let the sheriff handle them to see how hard that tissue is, almost like plastic, compared to normal cowhide, which is soft and pliable.
The sheriffs themselves said that it was one of the best demonstrations that they had seen because when you can feel tissue that it feels like plastic versus normal raw hide, you know that something unusual has happened.
And when Dr. Alchiller looks at these hard tissues under a microscope, the cellular changes are consistent with the presence of high heat.
Another finding from our research was to confirm that biochemical and biophysical changes in pasture grass under or near mutilated animals has shown the impact of some kind of an energy field.
I have interviewed Dr. W.C. Levengood, the Michigan biophysicist in the past, who has examined the plant and has concluded, even from current cases this year, that an intense energy field is involved at the mutilation sites, which suggests an advanced technology.
The research that we've been doing will also become part of the dialogue and the library source material in our new Institute for the Study of Contact with Non-Human Intelligence on America Online.
ISCNI has been created and organized by my colleague, Michael Lindemann, who you are going to introduce in a moment.
And I would just say that I think that we share a goal, which I know that our Dreamland listeners do, is that if in a year from now we have a crossroads for reporting, for people to interact in an electronic way in computers about unusual phenomena,
and they know that when they plug in to ISCNI, they are plugging into some of the most reliable and up-to-date information, the hard news instead of speculation, then we will, I think, be achieving one of our goals, and that would be a crossroads that people can come to, report, and get reliable information.
One of the big problems is how do we make the link between the evidence of technology interacting with plants and animals and what is the technology and who is applying the technology.
Well, that has been all of our frustrations, and we do have eyewitnesses, and one of the goals that I'm going to have in the next year is to try to have more documentation of eyewitnesses who in the past have said, I'll tell you off the record, but I won't go on film or in some public record.
One of the benefits of something like Dreamland, of ISCNI, of increasing very straight reporting about unusual phenomena is that more and more people are beginning to feel comfortable to say, well, look, if this will help someone else to report, then I will go on the record.
And if, even though this may not be hard proof, if I can get four, let's say, of the seven people who have talked to me about their either broad daylight or total conscious night encounters with beams of light in which they have seen animals go up or the disks that they've seen in pastures and they've been reluctant to talk about, I think at least it's building a stronger circumstantial link.
And who knows, in this next year or so, maybe someone somewhere in the world with the prevalence of camcorders is going to be able to capture something that becomes harder.
I have heard recently a report that I'm trying to get the videotape that someone in the Northeast has on videotape what looked like a helicopter and that it changed on the tape into a disc.
Those are not hard proof, but they are going further because we now have more people with things like camcorders out there that may catch something.
And then we have this hard physical medical data that is saying we're not dealing with predator and disease in many of these cases, most likely not satanic cults.
We've got a worldwide phenomenon.
It appears to be tied with an energy field that is related to a technology.
Well, the newest one, Glimpses of Other Realities, Facts and Eyewitnesses, is focusing on some of the harder data in crop circles, the investigations there, the animal mutilation abduction syndrome,
or animal mutilations and the human abduction syndrome, and what abductees have had to say about why there is this strange animal mutilation phenomena apparently linked from their point of view with something off-planet, and the pattern of different types of entities, non-human entities, that people have reported around the world for the last 40 years.
That book is out and available along with a brand new documentary that I did this year called Strange Harvest 1993.
And that looked at cases in the United States and other parts of the world just in the year 1993.
Prior to that are other videos and books, which in the interest of time I can describe in another program, but people can also write to me for information about this work at Blenda Howe, Post Office Box 538, Hunting Dunn, Valley, Pennsylvania, zip code 19006.
That's Post Office Box 538, Hunting Dunn, H-U-N-T-I-N-G, D-A-Zindog, O-N, Valley, P-A, 19006.
And the fax number there is area code 215-491-9842.
And in your upcoming guest, Michael Lindemann, I just want to say I am very excited and enthusiastic about ISCNI.
I will be contributing as a faculty member news stories and hope that our listeners will join us in cyberspace with what may be in the future some very, very interesting dialogue classes and the crossroads where more and more people can come with some confidence that they can have dialogue about facts and with some credibility.
Linda Howe, and in just a moment, Michael Lindemann.
Michael Lindemann was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin in 1949 as a conscientious objector during the Vietnam War.
He developed a lifelong interest in arms control, foreign affairs, and government policy.
He earned a B.A. degree in psychology from Antioch University, followed by two years of study at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley.
He later combined his political and psychological interests as educator, social analyst, and futurist.
In 1989, he founded the 2020 Group, a private research organization studying forces that shape the future.
Since 1990, Michael Lindemann has earned national recognition for contributions to the study of the UFO phenomena.
He first examined the subject from the angle of its possible connection to covert weapons development and social policy.
Finding substantial evidence in support of UFO claims, he launched the Visitors Investigation Project in 1989 to conduct and publish UFO research and much more.
Just a bit of an introduction to a man who has now opened cyberspace.
That's right, cyberspace, internet connections, which of course connects everybody together and is a vital link in furthering the research that we talk about here on Dreamland.
Well, of course, I was listening to my colleague and esteemed friend, Linda Howe, speak well of it, and I always thank her for that.
Linda has been a marvelous, pivotal contributor already to the development of this project.
What we have is an online institute known as ISCNI, or the Institute for the Study of Contact with Non-Human Intelligence.
We have an online address at America Online, which many of your listeners will know is the fastest-growing general network provider, computer provider in America.
We're very pleased with our association with America Online and, in particular, the area of America Online that we are specifically sponsored by, which is the Electronic University Network, which places us squarely in an academic framework, which is where we want to be,
to position this as credible, reasonable, not jumping to conclusions, but bringing to bear upon the subject of human contact with other intelligence, all of the skills of intellectual inquiry, scientific research, as well as personal experience and speculation and philosophy.
All of that has a place, all of it together in this environment, which has, for anyone involved with America Online, you can visit it for free, have a look around, join in the message board, look at our public library, have a look at our bookstore, all of that for the cost of the general America Online membership, which all half a million and a half people already there.
Well, to start off, indeed, you can join America Online for free for a month with 10 free hours to have a look around.
And then if you want to go further with ISCNI, as Linda mentioned, she is one of a number of well-known researchers offering courses, classes, special private study groups for people who become our members.
And all of that information, I don't want to take the hour talking about this.
I greatly appreciate your willingness to let me say this on the air.
But if anyone would like more information, there are two easy ways to reach us.
If you are already online on the Internet or on America Online, you can contact us at ISCNI.
This is our Internet address, ISCNI at AOL.com.
If you are on America Online already, simply punch in ISCNI.
That is our email address.
If you're on the internet, iscni at aol.com.
And I would recommend when you send us email, say you heard about it on the Art Bell Show.
The 2020 Group Art was and remains my private research and publishing company.
I founded it in 1989 with not a thought, not a thought in my head about UFOs.
What I wanted to do in 1989 was examine forces shaping the human future.
I still want to do that today.
That's exactly what I'm about as a futurist, as a social thinker.
What I found out to my great surprise, and I still to this day, five and a half years later, I pitch myself every couple of days.
I say, are you not safe?
What's going on here?
I found out that the UFO phenomenon and the whole constellation of phenomena associated with human claims of contact with other intelligent life is going to be one of the fundamental forces shaping the human future.
I would go so far as to say it will rank among either at the top or very near the top of the most important forces shaping the 21st century human existence.
That was not something I expected to find.
It was not something I wanted to find.
It is still something that makes me uncomfortable.
In fact, you know, there are days, and I've had this conversation with Linda Howe, and I've had it with other people who have essentially devoted their life to this.
None of these people started out to do that art.
Linda Howe is a gifted filmmaker, winner of several Emmys.
Other people, Bud Hopkins, a world-class artist with art hanging in various great museums, Stanton Friedman, a propulsion expert and nuclear physicist.
These are people who didn't need or want UFOs in their life, art.
These are people who didn't need UFOs to feel complete or special.
They were already accomplished.
They already had the recognition.
They already had the job.
They didn't need UFOs.
So to me, one of the most impressive things going in was the quality of the people who have made it their business to look into this.
One of the most impressive things about it, people have a very wrong idea that most of the people associated with this subject or who are taken in by this subject are airheads, wear beanies and stuff.
I commend you totally for the amount of attention you've given it and the platform you give people like Linda Howe and myself and others to talk about this.
I mean, the reach of your program is certainly a testament not only to your own dedication, but also to the fact that out there in the world, there are lots of people, Art, who already have made up their mind this is important.
That's the good part.
That's the good sign.
But on the other side, there are people taking risks, more and more people taking risks, and some of them run afoul of the sort of the status quo, the inertia that says this is still nonsense, leave it alone, it'll go away.
We have an example, for example, this book called The Fire Officer's Guide to Disaster Control.
It's an example of what can happen to capable authors when they take a risk.
The Fire Officer's Guide to Disaster Control, in its first edition, was one of the most often used training manuals for fire departments around America.
In 1992, the authors, Kramers and Bame, brought out a second edition in which Bame in particular, an attorney and a well-known author and educator, took an enormous risk, personally and professionally.
He put in this popular training manual for fire officers a chapter, a sub-chapter, a portion of a chapter, in which he dared to say that the UFO phenomenon is absolutely real and could pose detrimental impacts on society.
And therefore, it was high time for fire departments around the country to recognize that they could not hide from the possibility that there would be UFO events in which the fire department would be the first line of defense.
And some of the predictions were shocking and dire.
Yes.
As a futurist who deals with, I guess, present trends in predicting future trends as opposed to having visions, I'm sure that you've looked at, talked to, and kept track of a lot of futurists and a lot of people who do make predictions.
Number one, there is a strong likelihood of major earthquakes along the west coast of the United States.
That's simply a fact.
A very straightforward scientific organization known as the Southern California Earthquake Study Council or whatever it's called, Earthquake Center, just the other day predicted an 86% chance of a quake measuring 7 plus within the next 25 years.
Now, of course, that's extremely tame compared to what Gordon Michael Scallion is saying.
But we know that we live in an earthquake zone that is overdue for major quakes.
One of the things they pointed out is that over the last century, there has been only one quake in Southern California measuring 7 plus, and that happened a year and a half ago, the Landers Quake, which was mysteriously non-destructive because of being in a weird place and an unusual kind of quake.
But there should have been, according to statistics, seven quakes of seven plus magnitude during that same period of time, which means we're way the heck overdue, and we can expect it.
At the same time, we see devastation in many other parts of the world.
The so-called Ring of Fire, which is so named because of a tremendous amount of volcanic and seismic activity that circles the Pacific Plate, which is the plate which is literally crashing into the coast of California and causing the mountains and the seismic activity that we have in this part of the world.
All of that activity is definitely on the rise, and as far as that goes, straight science says scallion's right about big quakes.
On the other hand, the redrawing of the map of the United States has no precedent in known history.
If we look at what we think has actually happened in the way of continental drift, we see, for example, that the shape of the continent of Africa, the shape of the continent of South America, the shape of the subcontinent of India have not substantially changed in hundreds of millions of years despite the fact that they have migrated thousands of miles across the face of the planet.
In other words, it is more likely that whole landmasses will move intact than it is that large pieces of that landmass will suddenly disappear into the ocean.
Now, this is a fact of geologic science.
It is a fact that we can corroborate going back close to a billion years in terms of what we know about the apparent movement of continental landmasses.
And therefore, as regards the redrawing of large portions of the land mass of the planet, I have to say science is flatly and strongly opposed to Gordon Michael Scallion's vision.
Just for a second, playing with the idea that Mr. Scallion's predictions are accurate, should such a major earth change occur, what would you predict, Michael, with regard to social behavior?
Well, there will be several things that have to be taken into account.
What we've seen in Kobe, Japan is a good example.
In fact, we saw here last year with the quake that happened literally one year ago, the Northridge quake, which is said to be a 6.7.
The Kobe quake, therefore, about five or six times more powerful.
But I, being 100 miles from the epicenter of the Northridge quake, was thrown out of bed at 4 in the morning.
I was quite stunned.
I had no idea.
I really thought the thing had happened down the street.
I was quite shocked to learn that it happened 100 miles away.
The first thing I learned, however, was that I was flat broke because I hadn't had the good sense to pull any money out of my ATM the day before.
And the first thing I found out was we had a 12-hour power outage.
Well, you know, people have to realize is a lot of things go haywire right away when the electric grid goes down.
Therefore, even a moderate quake turns into a devastating social phenomenon very, very quickly.
People should not underestimate this.
Even a quake substantially less than what Scallion's talking about causes devastating ripple effects, and people have to know if they're anywhere near a quake zone, you've got to do more preparation probably than you've done.
You will find yourself in bad shape if you don't.
And that, I think, is just prudent.
As regards a quake of the magnitude Scallion is talking about, there is no real precedent in modern times for the kind of devastation that could occur.
And I think there will be a little of, or there will be some of both kinds of behavior.
There will be people who find themselves in a situation where it's easy pickings, and there will be lots of other people who look around, as they did in the Northridge quake, as they did in the aftermath of the Hurricane Andrew thing.
They looked around and they said, hey, my neighbors have lost everything.
Hey, time to get serious and be a human.
I think the American people have been sold short in terms of the so-called loss of morality and all the rest.
I would look to the American people to rise to the occasion, in all honesty.
And I would, of course, like you, expect there would be a certain amount of looting, a certain amount of taking advantage.
But I would not expect to see a lot of gouging of prices.
I would not expect to see a lot of wholesale plunder.
What I do think there would be, though, is over time, as days tick by, as resources literally run out, that is when people begin to realize that they are actually in a life-threatening situation.
They've survived the quake, but their nerves are on edge because there are aftershocks, probably many aftershocks.
They discover the very first thing they find out is there is no way out of town because everyone's trying to leave at the same time.
And so lots of cars are having accidents, lots of cars are running out of gas, lots of cars are overheating.
And what happens is the freeways, which are half devastated to begin with, become clogged with useless vehicles.
I've heard reports and rumors and I don't know what you want to call them that a certain degree of ability to forecast earthquakes is now present.
With that as the working hypothesis here, if the authorities were to learn, say, 12 hours or even 24 hours ahead of time that there was going to be a scallion-sized earthquake in the Los Angeles area, would it be worth warning the people?
I think the 12-hour timeframe is right on the edge of almost not enough time.
If it were 24 hours, if it were 36 hours, if they really thought they could take the risk of giving people that much warning, I think it would probably behoove some kind of organized evacuation.
But nobody wants to go to the enormous trouble of that kind of an evacuation if there's a 50% chance of being wrong, of having that much egg on their face, of going to that much cost.
I think that it's going to be a while before their confidence level is high enough.
Now, if there was an 80% or a 90% chance that the earthquake would hit in six hours, I think it would be highly risky to try to pull off an evacuation like that.
And if I were in the situation of having to make that call, it would be a very hard day.
So in other words, you would be faced with a horrid decision.
In other words, you would think, well, I could warn them and get people off terrible locations, get people off the side of cliffs, at least, that sort of thing.
But you wouldn't be able to do that because there'd be no way to avoid starting the panic that we're talking about here.
And the balance would be in more lives lost there.
Is there any way to weave these coming predicted earth changes by Scallion and others into the whole UFO phenomenon, which you have accurately said will be one gigantic story and one great effect on mankind?
Both would seem to have a great effect on mankind.
And despite the fact that I feel that science cannot rationally support the very extreme parts of Scallion's prediction, I will say that there are many UFO contactees and abductees who have been told that there will be great disasters on this planet.
This is one of the most robust themes that comes up time and again when people are reporting the content of their abduction.
This has become, I think, the signal is more strident and more consistent today than it was even a couple of years ago.
I hear it time and again that the abductees are being warned, they are being shown graphic images, they are seeing earth disasters, they are seeing war, they are seeing riots, starvation, they are seeing many very unhappy images.
So there's a definite correlation.
Why this is occurring, I don't know.
Is this symbolic?
Because we don't understand what abduction truly is.
I am not ready to say that abduction is literally what it appears to be, though I can say with absolute certainty that something profound is happening to people, no doubt.
And of course, we, you know, There are people who will point to that art and say this is exactly what is meant by so-called millennial fever, that we are approaching the millennium, that people get a little unhinged at the millennium for reasons that can, you know, trace back to the collective unconscious or the Jungian archetypes or whatever you like, and that it really doesn't amount to a hill of beans, we're going to survive, we're going to coast on through, and we'll look back on it and say, wasn't that all a bunch of silly business?
On the other hand, I think very rationally we have to say we are in a time of great uncertainty.
We are in a time of great upheaval.
There are good signs on the horizon.
There are not good signs on the horizon.
You said just a minute ago when you were talking about gold and so forth that The currency calamity that is occurring today in Mexico could have ripple effects around the world.
Well, that's just straight economics.
There's no magic about that.
It's true.
We are in a time of great uncertainty in our own country.
We are in a so-called recovery, but a lot of people don't feel it.
We are in a time when the political system has taken a very startling turn to the right because a lot of people are very I think it's I think that's a signal essentially that people are feeling extremely insecure and want a party that represents good solid conservative values that says they can bring back a better time and I'm not saying that the Republicans are liars.
I think they're absolutely serious about what they mean to do.
I don't think they're going to succeed not because they're bad or stupid but because it's a very hard nut to crack and I think we're up against some extremely powerful forces that have nothing to do with being a Republican or a Democrat.
Michael, aren't we in a way, as we propose the $40 billion in loan guarantees to Mexico, aren't we a kind of a fork in the road with nationalism going down one road and internationalism going down the other?
Isn't it finally to the point where economics is forcing the hand of politics in the international arena?
Well, that is certainly one thing that is occurring, without a doubt.
And of course, anyone who looks at the international side knows that they're doing everything they possibly can to cobble together an international economic order, bringing down tariffs if they can, having more universal currencies and currency exchanges and an interlocking of currencies so that no one country can go into a tailspin the way Brazil did some years ago, the way Mexico is today.
All of that is very much part of the economic order that is emerging at this time.
At the same time, there are powerful nationalistic forces, and this is one of the things that threatens to tear the world apart.
Okay, there's a lot of people out there, Michael, with questions about predictions, with questions about what you think is coming, and who knows what they want to know.
But let's get to the phones.
Are you up for it?
You bet.
All right, good.
Here we go, ladies and gentlemen.
On our East of the Rockies line, you're on the air with Michael Lindemann.
I believe they will last anywhere from 10 to 25 or 30 years.
I believe we will come out of it relatively good, but I believe it will be a time of learning a lot of lessons about how to live more sanely on this planet.
And I believe that if we don't learn those lessons, if we really are as pig-headed as we've been in the past, it could go very hard on us.
And I believe that this is a time when people are going to have to make some very tough decisions about more rational living on this planet.
I went to bed one night and woke up the next morning with a funny scar on my arm and some strange memories of something that I really don't remember actually happening, but I can't explain it.
Well, let me say in your particular case, sir, we would have to do a lot more talking before I could determine if there was any likelihood that you experienced an abduction.
Sometimes people do come up with scars overnight which have nothing to do with abduction.
But let's just say that in a general way, I have become convinced over a period of a number of years, starting very skeptical and quite ignorant of the subject, I have become convinced that there is a phenomenon, a legitimate phenomenon, which we call abduction, which seems to involve highly anomalous events in people's lives.
They do not invite these events.
They are perfectly rational, sane people with nothing to gain by creating this hideous distortion and distraction in their life.
It appears that it is associated with a form of intelligence that is not known to us, and we term that alien, but I think alien has connotations which may be inaccurate.
But I would like to say there is a genuine phenomenon.
I'd like to comment for just a second on the abduction phenomenon because the most unusual thing that is occurring in abduction research today, in my opinion, is something that I was not expecting, but it is very obviously occurring, and that is that many people who even a year or two ago would have said to you that their abduction experience was very traumatic,
very unwanted, very negative, have changed their mind or are in process of reevaluating their abduction experiences into something that they now term transformative, important, special.
They feel singled out.
They are on a mission.
They have been picked, chosen for something extraordinary.
It is a spiritual awakening.
This is a trend in the attitude of the abductees themselves, which is the most puzzling thing I've seen yet.
Well, I must confess I haven't done anywhere near the work that she has done, so I key off people like Linda Howe in terms of trying to address the crop circle.
But what we can say with certainty about the crop circles is some of them are not explained by any of the customary explanations, starting with the explanation of hoax, and there have been a bloody lot of hoaxes.
We have to acknowledge that right off the top.
But some of them are not adequately explained by any known explanation to date.
What they are remains to me a huge enigma.
I am not going to comment beyond that.
I do not know if they have anything to do with signals being sent to us by some alien intelligence.
Talked to you a couple weeks ago in regards to your video countdown, Alien Nation.
Yes.
And the question I have tonight is, what information do you have about an underground base located here in Bothow, Washington, and associated with FEMA Region X?
I don't know specifically about the base you're referring to, but what I do know is that there are underground bases littering the landscape.
There are many, many underground bases.
They have been built over a period of more than 50 years.
They were begun under a program known as the Continuity of Government Program.
They have continued to this day.
The level of sophistication is unexpectedly high.
The size, the number, the cost, and everything else about underground base construction in this country is literally off the scale in terms of the general black budget and the general public expectations.
Now, we go the next step and we say, as many people do allege, aliens are in some of these underground bases, hideous, grotesque experiments are conducted in these underground bases.
I know nothing about that.
My personal opinion is I tend to doubt it.
But the existence of the bases themselves, there is no doubt whatsoever.
Let me say, I really cannot pinpoint the location of very many underground bases.
What I do know for a fact is that the former director of the sort of leading underground base in America, a base called Mount Weather, which is the presidential underground bunker in times of nuclear war, that base exists a little bit outside of Washington, D.C. A man by the name of J. Leo Barassa,
who was the director of that base for many years, went on the Larry King show about a year and a half ago and said that he knew for a personal fact that there was at least one gigantic underground base in every state of the Union, and that was a very, very conservative estimate.
But what are we talking about here?
We're talking about an underground base, Mount Weather being an example, with a 200,000 square foot floor plan built out of solid granite and capable of withstanding a direct nuclear hit at ground level.
Their principal purpose is to ride out times of grave disaster, such as nuclear war or other grave disaster.
But nuclear war was certainly the principal motivating factor.
There are underground laboratories which are needed, which are built specifically to house them or to shield them from, for example, cosmic radiation if that kind of radiation would cause a problem in the experiments being done and so forth.
There are bases that are done that are underground simply because that is the best place to get uniform temperature and humidity, which some laboratories require.
So these are other reasons.
Another reason is underground bases are used for the storage of sensitive materials, currencies, sensitive chemicals and so forth, as well as underground nuclear waste.
I would say that there was, throughout the period of the Cold War, a fabulous conceit, let me put it that way, that an elite group of people, numbering some tens of thousands, would ride out any conceivable disaster.
And that because they knew they could do that, they took risks which today appear to be totally insane.
I do believe we have at least gotten almost out of that mentality, but there are certainly people who still believe it, and there are certainly people still preparing for it, Art.
Yeah, I'm looking at my National Geographic Atlas here, and I see that the Pacific Mid-Atlantic trench runs right smack into California at the Baja Peninsula and goes right into the continental United States.
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I wouldn't have thought to permit some kind of a very large earthquake.
Seems we ought to keep our eye on our public officials, and if they all of a sudden take off for coffee break and never come back, they're probably headed for the underground tunnels.
Yes, you are right, and we have to be very careful because having said we see a tendency toward more extreme, for example, we see a tendency toward higher mean global temperatures.
Only a few tenths of a degree, but it is there.
We have to ask ourselves, is this within natural variation?
Because there are cycles.
They run a long period of time.
They do not necessarily mean we're heading for global catastrophe.
These cycles have a way of turning around.
The planet is highly absorptive of these changes.
So we don't know yet whether this really points to disaster, but we have to say if, for example, human behavior is contributing, as it may be, to the so-called global warming effect, and there are people who say that's not really happening.
I happen to think it is art, but it's up for grabs.
We don't have proof.
Okay, so we have to just say, well, okay, how does the data fall today?
In my book, the data says we are contributing to the changing climate toward more extreme.
And we should behave ourselves in a way that would ameliorate that.