Art Bell

All Episodes

Previous Next

Nov. 15, 1994 - Art Bell

02:50:48

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - John Hogue - Prophecy

Participants

Main voices

37:22

john hogue

01:49:11

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 15th, 1994.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest.
		I bid you all good evening or good morning, depending on, of course, upon your time zone.
		Welcome to another edition of Coast to Coast AM Live Talk Radio Throughout the Nighttime on the TBC Radio Network.
		I'm Mark Bell, and I told you I was working on something, and I've got a surprise coming up for you in just a moment.
		Affiliate number 130 is going to be WCSS AM in Amsterdam, New York.
		Yet another New York affiliate, so those of you with relatives in New York, I want to let them know in the Amsterdam area that we're on the way.
unidentified		Huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I did tell you there was going to be a surprise this morning, didn't I?
		Or did I not mention?
		There is something about prophecy, predictions, and the next millennium that has every one of us on the edge of our seats.
		Whether it's Nostradamus predicting the rise and fall of Hitler, Old Testament prophets foretelling the coming of Christ, a psychic reading your tarot cards, or the weather woman predicting the rain, there is something in all of us that's hopelessly enthralled and terrified about the future, and yet left begging inevitably for more.
		Witness the overwhelming popularity of NBC's Ancient Prophecies coming up again this Friday night.
		It was a two-hour special which first aired in March.
		Then, in a very unusual move, testament to the popularity, it was re-aired just six weeks later because of a popular outcry as a result, actually, of the absolutely overwhelming number of calls that NBC had praising the special and wanting more.
		Inevitably, people want more.
		Well, what a surprise for you.
		John Hog, a scholar featured in ancient prophecies and a noted expert on Nostradamus, has compiled hundreds of known prophecies and predictions in his latest book, The Millennium Book of Prophecy, 777 Visions and Predictions.
		In a book that physically embodies the future, Hoag has created an astonishing and fascinating encyclopedic handbook of hundreds of visionaries across history and across many cultures.
		John Hoag is the world's leading authority on Nostradamus and other prophetic trends and traditions.
		He is the author of Nostradamus and the Millennium, which has been published in nine languages and sold more than 600,000 copies worldwide.
		As we swiftly approach the year 2000, people are thinking and talking about the next millennium in human history.
		Will it herald a brave new world or the fiery apocalypse?
		Coming up in just a moment will be the man who will be featured on Ancient Prophecies this coming Friday evening as our guest this morning.
		His name is John Hoag.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		Psh Psh you Thank you.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 15, 1994.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And now, up to, I believe, the Seattle area and my guest, John Hogue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, John.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the program.
		It's great to be here.
		You're quite a catch, and I want to thank Virginia at Ancient Prophecies for helping me get you.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I want to thank her, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This will be fun.
		John, I guess you're an old hand at radio.
		You know about radio.
		The first question I guess I want to ask you is, can we really know the future?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is difficult to know something that has not happened yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		But what we could probably get a sense of is what directions we are going, the directions that are being born in this present moment.
		And that, I think, is in my work of 20 years of scholarship and prophecy, I'd like to kind of get the focus back to the present so much prophecy scholarship makes one obsess on the future rather than reflect on what we're doing in the present to make that future.
		I am a firm believer after 20 years of studying the world's different prophetic traditions above their particular or hopefully beyond their particular religious biases and expectations.
		What I gather is that there is indeed quantum futures.
		Many, many different ways we can go down certain roads by collective decisions.
		Well, for instance, like we go down a different road now since Tuesdays last week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll say.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And that is going to open up a whole bunch of quantum futures that would not have happened if the Democrats had done better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then, how, John, should we think of prophecy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it, when it's catastrophic, simply should be regarded as, say, a warning?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I think the most positive way to use the most pessimistic prophecies is as a warning.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Certainly you have the 16th century prophet Nostradamus calling his own prophecies my threats.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My threats.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that really what he called them?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, in French, in old French, it's literally my threats.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And the message behind the mystical crypticness of that is that you don't the point of making a threat is not to have it come true.
		It's to actually wake up and uh say, ah, well, I don't want that to happen.
		I'm going to make you wrong, Mr. Master Damas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, John, Tuesday accepted, if you look at the social trends in America with regard to crime and people driving babies into lakes and all the rest of that sort of thing, there are times when I'm not very encouraged about the future.
		Tuesday was encouraging to me, but that came from sort of combination of frustration, even anger.
		And if you look at the social align as it progresses, I think it's more in the down direction than the up direction.
		I guess I'm a pessimist in this area.
		How do you feel about it?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is a collective vision from many different times and many different religious and prophetic disciplines, which indicate that we are in for about 30 years of chaos.
		But out of those 30 years of chaos, to steal a quote from Nietzsche, stars will be born.
		And one of those stars will be an entirely new way of looking at politics, an entire new way of looking at religion, the move from a nation-state point of view to a global state point of view.
		These are unstoppable.
		The reaction, in short, what I'm saying in one word is change is coming.
		And we all have, on collective and individual levels, ways to react and respond to that change.
		Some people want to move back to the past.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they do.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And if one, we can elaborate in probably more detail a little later about it, but in predictive astrology, and this is not the astrology of the newspapers, which is like reading free words on the cover of a book and saying you know what astrology is.
		Astrology has a lot more to do than that.
		And one of the fields that I'm involved in is predictive astrology for political movements, what is called mundane or political astrology.
		And definitely in the next two-year period, you'll see a very strong desire to move back to the fundamentals of what we know.
		But after 1996, you see the energy of the collective, if you will, moving towards the unknown and saying yes to change.
		So it's going to be difficult because we're really doing things we've never done before in our history.
		When I started the study of prophecy, I had a passion since I was a little child to study history and read about 7,000 books of history, the history of the past, in the fascination of the patterns that continually are repeated in the past.
		Later, around time at the end of high school, I started studying the works of future history, that is, scriptures of different religions and prophecies, and saw, to my understanding, the same patterns repeating in the future history.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, one way, I guess, of deciding with regard to the accuracy of future prophecy would be to look at past prophecy.
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And has it been very accurate?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, there are tens of thousands of people in our history who have claimed to be soothsayers.
		It's very difficult to find more than 100 that have a documented track record of prophetic success in the last, well, thousands of years of known history.
		And in my book, I have collected roughly a hundred prophetic sources that have some very clear documentation of their past successes.
		They had to be either successful if they had only one prediction, for the prediction to be at least 75% accurate.
		Or if they had other predictions, a series of predictions, to also have a 75% accuracy rate.
		Some had it even higher than that, but nothing lower than that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who was best?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a difficult question because what makes a man like Nasrdamas obscure in his prophecies and his culture is the intolerance of the time towards making predictions.
		If Nasradamus had lived as a Hopi elder where he didn't have to worry about that and could just speak openly in simple language, he might have an easy acceptance of what Edgar Casey or a Hopi elder has today, because in those traditions of prophecy they didn't have to hide it.
		So it's a difficult question to answer.
		I would say that, of course, Nasudamus would have to be one of them simply because the 200 of his over 1,000 prophecies that are clear enough to indicate success are so stunning in their accuracy that they have to be included.
		And Egger Casey for this century is probably one of the most accurate.
		And surprisingly enough, some of the latter half of the 20th century's more controversial mystics have actually some very accurate predictions concerning our near future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let me tell you, John, I've been doing this show now for about nine years.
		Not in syndication that long, but all together for about nine years in a row now.
		And in the last, I'm going to say, eight months, I've been getting a raft of calls, John.
		People saying, boy, do I have a feeling of impending doom or impending occurrence or impending something.
		People just calling saying, something really big is going to happen.
		And I wonder if you've noticed that.
		I wonder if it's just millennium fever, you know, as we approach the beginning of something new or the end of this, whatever.
		Have you noticed that also, kind of a widespread feeling of something?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I've been watching it build for about 10 years.
		And I've also tried to find correlations in prophetic traditions about it.
		And there are many, especially in the native peoples of the world.
		Many of the American Indian seers that I've studied and met tell me that the Earth's energy goes through a cycle of where it increases.
		In one case, one man from the Yellowknife tribes of northern Canada told me that he believed that a 35% increase in the energy of the world will begin in the 90s and peak in the year 2012.
		2012 is also the end of the Mayan calendar, the most accurate calendar of the ancients.
		A calendar that does not have a loss of a day or a leap day or something for 320,000 years.
		It's so accurate.
		Expanding on this theme, there are not only the Christian millennial timekeepers coming to an end of the thousand years that always comes from Christian thought, but most of the time cycles of the ancients are all coming to an end and resuming again around this time.
		And that only happens every 26,000 years.
		So this is very significant time.
		The millennial hysteria of the 990s was a very localized experience.
		The millennial hysteria that we're about to enter will probably not be experienced again in known human history.
		It's quite significant crossroads at the end of time as we know it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could it be the end of time?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that anybody's prediction?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is in the book, I have a chapter called The Crossroad at the End of Time, where the bottom of the page runs a timeline of all fulfilled prophecies that are dated in the 20th century, and then it goes off into the future millennia.
		That is one of the hardest disciplines to be good at.
		There's only a handful of prophets in history who can say on this day, on this year, this will happen, you know, and say it's centuries before it happened.
		This is one of the things Master Thomas was very good at.
		And so I've listed them, and they're quite dense in the timeline for the first few pages as we go through the 20th century.
		But after the year 2000, they start to dwindle, and then by 2012, they almost vanish.
		And then you only have from the same control group of prophets maybe three or four dated predictions for the next eight or nine millennia.
		Well, there's two possibilities.
		One is that the people of this grand cycle of time who grew up in this energy cannot see beyond this cycle.
		That's one possibility.
		And it will be for the people of the new grand cycle of time to make their predictions about the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The other, of course, being there is nothing to see.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		There is nothing to see because we run into a ditch through our own predictability.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And the third possibility is that we find enough people collectively find the answer to what makes them so predictable, and human race becomes a spontaneous, life-affirmative race, and therefore hard to predict.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you fancy one over the other?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I think it's a choice that each of us has to see which one do we want to have happen, and which one are we going to make efforts in our personal lives to have happen?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I know for me, the last one is the one I'm working for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, very admirable, but again, I go back to my, I suppose, doomsday scenario, and that is that I see a social slide underway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if I had to predict one of the outcomes you just talked about based on present trends, I don't think I'd be very hopeful.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It is a question I deal with for two decades in my own personal life as well.
		I mean, I've seen about every angle on doomsday that I think that exists out there in different cultures.
		I have also, in the first half of this book, probably arguably have written the most terrifying scenarios on doomsday.
		However, I've also in my work discovered equal number of prophecies that counterbalance the doomsday, often from the same people, which indicates to me that there is clearly a choice and that personal responsibility for the future is definitely the hidden message, the key.
		And, of course, it is very scary, and the change is scary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, I've talked to alien abductees.
		I've talked to prophets on this program of various sorts, and almost all of them will say the same thing.
		This is one possible future.
		It does not have to be this way.
		Nevertheless, as I said, when I look at trends, I see it headed the wrong way at the moment.
		What's the negative side?
		What's the downside?
		What sort of end scenarios do you see?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, the main, now that the dust of the Cold War is off the prophetic crystal ball and we can review the prophecies of Armageddon a second time, one thing I observe is that the Cold War scenario never had much weight.
		In fact, it was one of the last warnings before Armageddon that Russia and America become friends before China and with a Middle Eastern consortium of terrorist nations wage perhaps a war that's not East and West, but the Northern nations versus the Southern nations.
		And this war would be waged over ecological stresses and the breakdown of what are called super systems.
		That's the sustainability of foods, the sustainability of political structures, of economy, all these things being sorely stressed by having far too many people on the planet, far too much pollution on the planet, and the stress of the way we live our lives.
		And these are actually the major factors beyond religious and political stresses that will cause World War III.
		And the two windows for it are between now and 1999, and if it does not happen then, then even if we have all these wonderful treaties with everybody and it seems like we really passed into the new millennium of peace, if we don't deal right now in the next 10 years with our ecological situation and our sustainability of these super systems, they will break down on us by the two thousand twenty's and you will have the third world war then
		Well, the scenario will probably Depends on how China Is introduced into the greater world And how China deals with that It's kind of a balance between how China And he's the one that made the prediction about the sleeping giant of China.
		Watch out when I'm paraphrasing that when that giant awakens, the world will shake.
		And China will awaken.
		It is their destiny to become a superpower in the next 10 years and fill the void left by Russia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then it may well depend as China awakens on China's mood when China wakes up.
		John, can you hold through the break here?
		Or stand by?
		We'll be right back to you.
		John Holb, the world's leading expert on Nostradamus, the man who's going to be on Ancient Prophecies is coming Friday.
		We'll be back in just a moment.
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
		Sunshine's a new morning.
		You're going, you're going home You're going home
		Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is John Hope.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He is none other than the world's leading expert on Mustard Domits, on profits in general.
unidentified		And he'll be back in just a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I know John's listening right now, so I've already got a fax.
		By the way, if you want to send a faxed question in, you can begin those now.
		And this is the question.
		I'll let John think about it as we take care of the commercial continuity here.
		I purchased John Hoag's 1987 book entitled Nostradamus in the Millennium back in 1988.
		I'd like to know what revisions the author would incorporate in a new book on the interpretations of Nostradamus' predictions in the seven years since this book was published.
		That's from AP in San Diego.
		and uh...
		we'll get the answer to all that uh...
unidentified		a_p_ in just a moment You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 15th, 1994.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, as we begin this half hour, John, welcome back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, to the question with regard to your book and the seven years since you've written it, would you change anything?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's an excellent question.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		In fact, I've been spending the last year rewriting that book, and it's now going to be released as Nostradamus, The New Revelation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no kidding.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And it is by Element Books, and it will be distributed by Penguin.
		And tomorrow I embark on a five-city tour to introduce this book.
		And it is something I've wanted to do for these seven years because about 60% of my original manuscript, which I wrote in 1986 for Nostamas and the Revelations, was considered basically too hot to handle by the publisher at that time.
		And since that time, a lot of what I said that didn't get into that book has been more pertinent to the mid-90s than it was in the mid-80s.
		And so I have reissued all of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Give us a little preview.
		That sounds too good to let go, too hot to handle.
		What was too hot to handle and what's in there that we should know about.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Nuclear terrorism as a major threat to a civilian reactor in southwestern Europe around April of 1996 and July of 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that is hot.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And the fact that some of my astrological interpretations of Nasudamas concerning earthquakes did take place at the Killari-Latur quake.
		I said in the first book that around October of 93 was the window for a massive earthquake in India.
		And I was off by one day, which is the night of September 30th, 1993.
		Unfortunately, I was also accurate about October of 89 being a major earthquake.
		That was the San Francisco quake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, I hit one that I've got to tell you about, and my audience will back me up on this.
		Do you recall the Japanese earthquake 8.0 or 8.1 or called that about eight hours before it occurred, and I did so here on the air.
		I said there is going to be a very large earthquake somewhere in the next few hours, or at most couple of days, and I got off the air, you know, at 4 a.m. Pacific time and went and took a little nap.
		When I woke up, my fax machine was full of facts and saying, my God, we don't believe it.
		And I really did call that one.
		And the way I did it, John, was not because it came to me suddenly, but I've learned that when we have sun eruptions, when we have flares, solar flares, we typically have earthquakes.
		And we were having a massive solar flare that night.
		And so I stuck my neck out on the air, and I said, we're going to have a big, big earthquake in the next few hours.
		And sure enough, John, there it was.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, there's been a lot of ancient study even in China about earthquake science concerning not only looking at objective symptoms of things in the cosmos in our local atmos, the solar system that might influence that, but also in the way animals behave, the way that there seems to be an electromagnetic wave of energy that some sensitive people feel before an earthquake.
		I know I've had a few experiences of that.
		And growing up in Southern California, I've weathered a few whoppers like the Silmar quake.
		And I know in my own situation, I was once when I was finishing this book, sitting here in Seattle, it was on a sultry summer day, and suddenly I noticed that all the animals and the birds stopped making noises.
		And I kind of got up and went, hmm, that's kind of that we might have an earthquake soon.
		And then we did, within three hours, have a 4.3, which actually was big enough to shake things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of the prophets that I've had on this program, John, have talked about incredible earth changes.
		I've heard things from a massive meteor or asteroid of some sort heating in southern Nevada, of all places, thank you very much, to California cracking off and falling off into the ocean with nothing left but islands on up through Washington.
		I've seen maps that show that.
		What do your prophets say about that possibility?
		Earth changes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, in my opinion, after studying this, one of the areas that suffers from the most exaggeration in interpretation is probably Earth changes.
		And I do feel that we're definitely going to get some massive earthquakes and seismic activity in the next 10 years, particularly around the spring of 2000.
		But I think a lot of those maps, like the Scallion map and others, are actually quite over-exaggerated.
		And I doubt very much that we will see that kind of a shift of lands.
		I'll give you an example.
		One prediction showed England sinking, southwestern England sinking into the Atlantic seven years before the end of the world.
		Now, if one loosely attributes that to the year 2000, as many people point to, then it should have sank around 1992, 93.
		What did happen at that time, objectively speaking, is that southwestern England experienced its heaviest rains in history.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I recall that, yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		So now you have visions of a man like Nasser Damas maybe getting it right that it saw big floods, but getting it over-exaggerated and saying, oh, it's sinking of southwest England.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I mean, certainly if you were under the rain in certain areas, it felt like sinking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or maybe England avoided one possible future.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and on top of that, maybe one of history's greatest prophets overexaggerated in what must be very difficult for people who have these visions to deal with.
		You know, you're just minding your own business, and suddenly you see this stunning experience beyond what you understand.
		And then when you come out of it, you try to share it in what you understand from your own conditionings, mindsets, hopes, and fears.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a good question, John.
		What do the prophets go through?
		You can only imagine having some kind of vision like that involuntarily would scare the hell out of you.
		You'd question your own sanity.
		I would imagine you'd go through all kinds of changes.
		How have most prophets through history handled it?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Again, it depends on the culture and how the culture accepts its soothsayers.
		In the case of someone like Nasr Damas, he had to be very secretive about it because he might be burned as a witch.
		Whereas if, again, a Hopi shaman had such visions, his culture would, or an aboriginal shaman had such a vision, his culture would support and nurture his ability to communicate it.
		So a lot of one common thread in a lot of prophetic experiences is some kind of shock that is either subtle or quite objective, like a blow to the head or something like Peter Hurcose, that takes you out of your normal way of looking at things.
		Another way is through mystical practices like meditation or the practice of magic or deep devotional prayer or the way a Sufi can whirl and whirl on a dime for hours, as the founder of the whirling dervishes, Rumi, did for something like 36 hours, and then when he fell down, it is said he became enlightened.
		He discovered his what would be in Christian terms his Christ consciousness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder how many prophets through history, John, who have had these visions involuntarily, instead of being Accepted by society have ended up in loony bins.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Oh, many, many, many.
		It's a funny similarity.
		I once had a mystic in India tell me that the difference on the surface between a madman and an enlightened master is on the surface doesn't look very different because they both look like they're out of their mind.
		One he described as falling below the mind.
		And what he said, the enlightened person transcends the mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I got an interesting message on internet yesterday that I was going to hold for later in the program, but it's appropriate to read it now.
		I had a lady yesterday who called me and said she was hearing voices.
		Hearing voices.
		She thought people were electronically putting them in her head.
		Somebody sent me a message on internet and said, if you talk to God, it's praying.
		If God talks back, it's schizophrenia.
		And I suppose these prophets are sort of hearing from God or a God power or a power and are diagnosed as schizophrenic many times.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, that same person on internet who said that I would not want them to say that in the middle of Cairo about Muhammad going up on the mountain.
		Indeed.
		However, it is a fine line.
		It's a very fine line between madness and messianism.
		That's what makes it so dangerous and at the same time a great risk for the seeker of truth because you do go on the fringes of your own mind and see what's there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and so if you began to have terrifying visions, John, uncontrollable, terrifying visions that came to you as dreams or even in waking hours.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Have I had them?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if you had them, would you go to the world and offer them up, or would you keep your mouth shut?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is from my own personal experience, because it has happened sometimes, that I think to adequately study this rather fringy subjective subject as prophecy, you have to have one foot firmly grounded in scholarship, and you have the other one extended out into the more subjective sides of one's consciousness and experiment with these things.
		I can say for myself that it is definitely takes a grounding in a certain discipline of self-awareness to not get identified with what is seen to the extent that one takes it so seriously that one becomes almost pathologically responding to what one sees.
		Given it must have taken a tremendous centeredness of a man like Nostradamus to foresee his own death, to foresee the deaths of loved ones and the passage of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		While we're at it, can you give us sort of a brief primer on Nostradamus in general?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people who are not familiar with him know the name, but don't know much about him, really.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		His name became a world-known name during World War II because both sides, the Nazis and the Allies, used his prophecies and propaganda to prove that their side would win.
		The man that was born in 1503 and died in 1566, and if he hadn't predicted a single prophecy, and still often does go down in history books, is one of the great healers of the 16th century, a man who almost single-handedly cured three cities of plague and whooping cough.
		Of course, what most short histories will say of Master Thomas is that he also wrote this series of ten volumes of four-line poems called quatrains in a book called The Centuries, which was a history of the future till the end of time.
		And they will say many people have attributed different interpretations for the centuries, the last four and a half centuries, to this obscure work.
		And of course, in the new book, I expand on just looking at interpreting the prophecy and take a step back.
		And actually, my study of Nasudamas is about a 15-year study in three steps.
		The first book, that was in 1987, was beginning from the usual homily point of view of narrative.
		The second book, this one that's released now, is a little more critical and a little more stepping back from mere interpreting and saying, well, what really is this phenomenon called Nasradamas?
		How many people have triggered a controversy that remains quite hot four and a half centuries later?
		Many greater men have come and gone whose controversies have died.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does this reflect a more objective point of view from you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, did you go through some changes personally as you looked at this, continue to look at it over the years?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		I really feel that one must, if only a corpse remains the same, and if one is open to growing and learning, I mean, I always hope that each book is a quantum leap from the last.
		When I write another work on collective prophecies, which I intend to do towards the end of this decade, I hope it'll be a whole quantum leap from Millennium Books Prophecy and what it has to say.
		I hope that I'll always keep growing and learning.
		And the book certainly, after 78 years, has more angles, more facets to the diamond, so to speak.
		And eventually what will happen is at the end of the century I will have a complete prophecies of Nostradamus, which hasn't been done in completeness since 1962 by Edgar Leone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, maybe that's ominous by itself.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would like to release it on July of 1999, the famous doomsday prediction of Nostradamus, and kind of as a pull-the-tale of the interpretive devil, if you will.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		If I'm going to do all this work over the next five years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hope we're about to read it.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, this book that's coming out, Nostradamus' New Revelations, is out, and I'm very happy with it.
		It's really the book I wanted to do in 1987.
		And it's fully new illustrations.
		All my books are coffee table books with pictures and illustrations having an interplay and text and image on each page.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you get right down to the nitty-gritty, you talked about the prediction of the plagues, even the curing, I guess, of some of the plagues.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would you consider his most significant predictions to have been?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, from the past, certainly the ones made on the French Revolution are quite chilling in their accuracy.
		His accurate description of Napoleon and the time that he would rule, 14 years as emperor.
		The rise and fall of Adolf Hitler, who he called Hister.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And Napoleon he called Napoleon Roy.
		Napoleon the King.
		It is an anagram from Ne.
		Paul Laurent.
		It was a classic anagram for that.
		A man that would hold, never would be seen a man holding such a ferocious name as a French king.
		And the I mean, in the case of Hitler, he called him the captain of Greater Germany.
		Hitler called his empire Gross Deutschland, Greater Germany.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And that he would break unions in 37, 41, 42, and 45.
		He talks about a great empire falling through an invasion through the Ardennes forest.
		And it's not in code.
		He says the Ardennes.
		And the quatrain is numbered Quatrain 45 of that particular volume.
		In fact, it's Century 5, 45.
		Now, the only major invasions that have happened through the Ardennes where a whole empire has fallen was in 1940 when Hitler went through the Ardennes to defeat France and thereby, of course, defeat its empire's holdings around the world.
		That's one interpretation.
		Of course, he did it again a few years later where he tried the same trick for the Battle of the Wolch, which is going to be celebrating its 50th anniversary very soon.
		In this case, his Nazi empire fell.
		That was his last chance, last gamble.
		And May, that is, 5, of 1945 is the, could be the prediction, the ending date of World War II.
unidentified		well that's an awful lot of accuracy you know that uh...
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		and then i mean that just give another example you have uh...
unidentified		Right.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I mean, when you look at the famous prophecy of the flight of the king, Louis XVI, and his family, they tried to escape the Republican France.
		And in it, he describes the night he will come by the forest of Rien.
		A married couple, devious route, Queen White Stone, a monk king in gray in Varennes.
		Now, first off, on this quadrain is number 20.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, we've got to pause right there.
		Okay.
		Hold on quadrain 20.
		We'll be right back.
		John Hog, the world's leading expert on Nostradamus.
		We'll be back with this in a moment.
unidentified		The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		Premier Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 15th of November, 1994.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back or into the program.
		If you are one of those just joining us at this hour, we are honored to have with us.
		Surprise, surprise, everybody.
		John Hogue, who is none other than the world's leading authority on Moster Dominance.
		He is also the man who will, if not be the anchor for, certainly the main authority for, the Ancient Prophecies television show coming up at, we believe, 8 o'clock in all time zones this Friday evening.
		John Hogan, we're talking about no surprise there, prophecy, predictions, soothsayers, our past, and our future.
		And we'll get back to him in just a moment.
unidentified		you Thank you.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 15th, 1994.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music For many, many years now, John Hoag has been studying prophets and prophecy and soothsayers, and here he is Back once again, and we were discussing Quatrain 20, I believe.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		This is Quatrain 20 of Century 9.
		And I will read it again quickly and take it line by line.
		It's basically about the flight of King Louis XVI and his family, and Queen Marie Antoinette, from Paris in an attempt to escape revolutionary France in 1791.
		And it took place on the night of June 20th, 1791.
		The quat train is number 20.
		And it says, By night he will come by the forest of Rienne.
		Rienne is, they posed as a married couple and not as royalty.
		They took a large coach and they did pass that forest on their way on a northern route out of Paris.
		They disguised themselves as a married couple and they took a lot of changes in their route because they couldn't find enough horses, the right horses, so they had to change for fresh horses.
		So the next line says, a married couple, devious route.
		They changed their route from the original plan.
		Then he says in the next line, Queen White Stone.
		Now, that is an apt description in three words from Marie Antoinette.
		Her hair had turned white from the stresses of the revolution.
		The diamond necklace scandal attributed to her was one of the major steps towards a revolution, the White Stone.
		And she was dressed in white, witnesses say, as this wife disguise.
		The other description was given to the king as looking like a Carmelite monk in gray.
		They wear a gray smock and a gray hat.
		And in the next line, he says, a monk king in gray in Varennes.
		This was reported by witnesses in the town of Varennes, the town where the coach was stopped by the mayor, who was a revolutionary, and the guards then drove the coach back to Paris.
		The final line talks about the result of this.
		Elected cap causes tempest, fire, and bloody slicing.
		Now, when you read that just offhand, it looks like a little gobbly goop.
		That's why it's important in the study of Nasudamas to really know your history and know it intimately, all the little details.
		For instance, it is known that when Louis XVI of the House of Bourbon became a monarchical, well, a constitutional monarch in the beginning of the Revolution, they had him drop his royal name and take the oldest name of his family, which was Capé.
		He was called citizen Capé, not King Louis.
		So elected cap.
		He was an elected king.
		First time France ever had that, elected by the masses.
		And the causes tempest, the next two words, is a metaphor often used for the French Revolution as the whirlwind or the tempest in old French.
		And certainly it was, poetically speaking, because Master Thomas was a poet as well.
		And also the whirlwind is a dating that comes up in a lot of these revolutionary French prophecies because of exactly a year to the day before the storming of the Bastille, there was a huge cyclonic storm that hit northwest France.
		And there were a lot of cyclones and tornadoes that actually went past Paris and up all the way to Tours.
		And it was called the whirlwind.
		You can see it in old French newspapers, which I have at the time.
		So anyway, the elected cap causes tempest, fire, and bloody slicing.
		Of course, fire is a description of the wars and the revolution.
		And the bloody slicing, of course, is the guillotine, if we are to attribute this kind of interpretation.
		I think it's pretty hard not to, after looking at all the other bits of evidence.
		Now, I mean, this is quite condensed in a prophecy that is over 300 years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had no idea that so much of it was so specific, John.
		I thought it was more open to interpretation.
		But as you apply the history that you so carefully checked on, it seems very specific.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is true for a lot of the prophecies, that they're quite obscure.
		And I have a few theories I'm proposing in the new book on Master Damas about that.
		To give you an example, one of the most famous prophecies of Master Damas, which made him famous in his own time, was Century 1 Quatrain 35 concerning his own king, King Henry II, dying in a jousting tournament, being blinded in the eye through a gilded cage.
		His helmet visor was made of gold, and a piece of a javelin, well not javelin, a piece of a jousting stick penetrated the cage right behind his eye, blinded him, and basically gave him a mortal wound.
		And this is one prophecy, one quantum future, if you will.
		Now there are about a dozen other prophecies, clearly using anagrams for Henry II, that describe in detail the man conquering northern Italy, keeping the peace between the Protestants and Catholics and citizens of France, and basically becoming someone equal to, if not transcending, the power of Charles V of the Holy Roman Empire, well, his contemporary.
		And now none of that happened.
		Now, and most scholars go, well, Master Damas got that one wrong, didn't he?
		And maybe he did.
		However, another possibility, and perhaps one of the reasons why so many of the quatrains are obscure, is maybe that was a quantum future that could have been accessed if he'd heeded the warning not to joust.
		So what we may be doing now, and I pose in this essay in the book, that many of the famous 200 or so quatrains that most scholars like myself like to cite about the accuracy of Nasadama's made, if the king had not followed that quantum future and followed the other one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John must have forced you to do a lot of thinking about the nature of time.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		I mean, that's that's one of my core passions about all of this.
		I I always love uh a good time travel story.
		I mean when I was a little kid I saw you know the uh time machine and I ran off and read the book by H.G. Wells and I love I have a passion for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A couple of questions for you.
		Facts in.
		Dear Art, will you please ask John who he was referring to regarding recent prophets which he described as startlingly accurate?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		You mean as mystics?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Modern-day mystics, prophets that you did describe as very accurate.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, Edgar Casey was one.
		Count Louis Haman, who died in 1935, was better known for his pseudonym Kiro, the palmist bookwriter about palmistry.
		His books are considered like the Bible of palmistry readers.
		He was quite a good prophet in the hardest disciplines of dating times for events and naming outright things.
		Edgar Casey, who died in 1945, certainly is one of the great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How about real modern day?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anybody out there right now?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, surprisingly, someone who died just recently, who was quite controversial in Oregon, as a mystic that was, well, people call him Osho now, but his name at that time was Baguan, you know, the Bagwan.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		The Bagwan, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Baguan, yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Very accurate.
		That was quite surprising to me because as far as I understand from examining his, I mean, one of the other major pursuits I have other than prophecy, and probably will write a lot of books about it in the following decade, is it's a close examination, intimate examination of new religious movements because they may end up being the great religions of the next millennia.
		And so that's what I pose.
		So I study them and keep in touch with them.
		In the case of this man, he was very anti-future in most of his visions of how he saw things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anti-future.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, he basically felt that tomorrow never comes and the past is dead and you only live now.
		I found that rather intriguing, that a man who has such strong views about living in the now should be so accurate about predicting the future.
		I mean, he has had his daily discourses throughout his life transcribed into over 700 books, 350 of which are in English.
		And I have perused through all of them and gathered what I usually do in my work is I gather anything that's prescient or prophetic, and I put it on a little card.
		I have this big wall in my flap where I have fall cork, and I just pin them all up on the wall, and then I use my bit of dyslexia in a way that's very helpful, and that is that you can see things vertically and backwards and forwards a lot easier when you're a bit dyslexic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if a large event occurs, you go to the wall.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I go to the wall.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And what I immediately observed is that the incredible accuracy of past predictions the man made about India, about things that would happen, the fact that he had foreseen the AIDS way ahead of a lot of people and described a lot of things that people just laughed him off the map for about condoms and gloves and safe sex and that it would be part of policy soon in many countries.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are there any contemporary predictions or any at all regarding what would seem to be AIDS and where it's going to go, John?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Unfortunately, many.
		And to expand the theme, not just AIDS, but in my first book on Nasodamus, I was pretty focused on AIDS, but one of the things, to answer further that question, first fact, that it is expanded to include all diseases, if you will, that affect the immune system of not only man, but his animals and his food chains.
		And there, in the Millennium Book of Prophecy, I look at many prophecies in what I call the chapter, the Lemming Syndrome, looking at plagues.
		And there are a lot of prophecies about ozone holes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, are there really?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and often it comes up as swords cutting the sky.
		That's the way some Renaissance German prophets talk about it and let in lethal rays by cutting up the sky.
		If you were a man from the 17th century or 16th century, you might view a rocket as a sword.
unidentified		Indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed, and we just sent up a sword here in the last few days to take a very good and careful look.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I believe they dispatched a little baby sword while they were up there to take a good look at the ozone hole.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's been retrieved now back on Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I guess we're reviewing the information right now, but the indications are that the ozone hole has expanded.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, and then you get Master Dalmas talking about a great plague from the skies covering the entire northern hemisphere.
		And then he dates it beginning around 1993.
		And you get the Swiss mystic of the early 20th century saying, I'm sure she didn't know about Goddard's toy rockets at that time.
		She was around making this prediction at that time.
		She said, in the near future, people will make pencil planes that will punch holes in the atmosphere, let in lethal rays that will kill tens of millions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure sounds like rockets to me.
unidentified		Yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And of course, ultimately, what I hope people will do when they read this book and see the correlation of all these different times, people saying the same thing generally, is not to feel chest fall and think, oh, there's nothing we can do, but to actually become more activistic,
		you know, and put more pressure on their governments to be more responsible about CFCs and other things that eat the ozone layer and maybe encourage more for NASA to look at projects that actually can replenish the ozone.
		I saw something recently in Discover magazine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be done.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Oh, certainly.
		We can fix it.
		That's the thing.
		I hope that people will not use these prophecies to just feed their lack of ability to respond, responsibility to the situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Try this one out for size.
		Art, could you ask John, please, to comment on the angelic earthquake warnings in Seattle?
		Are you familiar with them at all, John?
		There have been many recent angelic warnings.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		There was also the same happening for Jupiter on a freeway, Santa Monica freeway about a month before the strikes on Jupiter by the Comet Shoemaker Living.
		Yes.
		Again, like the Earth changes, one of the other areas where there's a lot of exaggeration is usually the collective visions of armies of angels in the sky, which happened many times before, or angels coming down to make warnings concerning an event.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're actually having angel mania across America right now.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It's one of the many symptoms of kind of somewhat authentic and mostly mass hysterical events that are going to be common in the next seven or so years concerning millennial feelings.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Now, certainly my own studies of the occult and astral projection, I mean, at one time I was even one of the 50,000 or so white mice in the experiment that Robert Monroe was doing with the Gateway program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I know all about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I interviewed Robert.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Great work what he does.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		So, I mean, I know that there are definitely a lot more people around than we can see just with the physical eyes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Some of them are nice, some of them not so nice, some of them quite evolved, and it could be very easily attributed to angelic projections onto those people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you attribute it instead to what Mr. Monroe suggests occurs with the soul?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		With the soul?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With the soul.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, with the soul, in essence.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I remember in his Far Journeys, the book Just Before Ultimate Journeys, he talked at length about people, what he called it, as being on the sixth plane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, although they could not really understand those who were in the seventh plane.
		And I think, yes, I mean, I certainly would say there's definitely many mystics, including someone, again, like Osho, said, always open yourself to higher energies.
		You know, and if they, I mean, the thing where I would be more standoffish is to say, or just simply not less identified with, is to say that sometimes what we personify is not that what we're seeing is in a persona, but it's how we, again, interpret what's happening.
		We see the persona of an angel, for instance, when people have had near-death experiences.
		I've also had one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you have?
unidentified		Yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I was in an auto accident.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it's the start of this new Millennium Book of Prophecy I described, my own.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, would you be willing to describe that for us?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, basically, I had had a very, it was back in 1981 on Ash Wednesday in March of 81.
		I had just come back from India from a meditation retreat.
		And I was hovering at the door to, I was going to go visit my girlfriend, Time, who was about a two-hour drive down from Palfert East to Long Beach.
		She was going to fix me dinner.
		And I just called her up and said, I'm coming.
		And so that's a preamble.
		And then I was at the door, and I couldn't go any farther.
		I had this immense feeling that something, like you were saying before, big was going to happen, something momentous.
		It felt like a little ant that was going to be crushed by something I couldn't even see.
		And I said to my mother, I said, why can't I get out of here?
		What is happening?
		And I just hovered and waited there at the door, and then something kind of just pushed me out.
		Got in the car.
		20 minutes later, I was going through an intersection in Long Beach, and someone ran the red light.
		At 55 miles an hour, it hit me in the driver's door of my little two-door Maverick.
		And it was quite an amazing experience to see the force of that collision.
		I was wearing my seat balance while I'm still here.
		It was almost like steel and metal and plastic started ripping away from me like garments, like sheets being ripped.
		It was amazing to see the fluidity of things in that one shattering moment.
		And at that moment, I was propelled into all I can explain is a golden void.
		It was vast like the sky.
		It was everything and nothing at the same time.
		Very paradoxical experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have never had such an accident, so I've got to stop you and ask you.
		Go back to that moment of metal crushing.
		Was it fast in time, John, or did it play out slowly as you think of it now?
		Did it play out as it was occurring slowly to you?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the funny thing about these events.
		Time really gets warped, and it did play slowly.
		It's almost like it stood still.
		And yet, it was paradoxical, too.
		It's where it's where, not only in the accident, but even in that golden space.
		I could live a million years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, John, did you have time to think you were going to die?
unidentified		Well, we can follow that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're going to have to follow that.
		We're going to have to break here.
		We'll be right back.
		My guest, the world's expert on Nostradamus, John Hope.
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		on this Somewhere in Time.
		Music by Ben Thede
		Music by Ben Thede
		You are listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 15th, 1994.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is John Hope.
		John Hope, on the Interprofit Intelligence Program.
		Coming Friday evening on MP.
		I suspect 8 o'clock or checking local listings.
		He is indeed the world's expert on local dogs.
		And I suspect many other profits.
		Toothpayers.
		And that's what we're talking about.
		We'll get back to him in just a moment.
		You're listening to America's largest, fastest-growing all-night talk show.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Pewds
unidentified		Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell Somewhere in Time Once again, John Hoag.
		John, we were right in the middle of a car crash.
		And there it was, the metal crunching about you.
		And I've often wondered, you know, myself, and I think a lot of us have, were we to be involved in something like that, what would that last instant be like?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, in my case, I can only speak for that it was having had a brush with sudden death, I have come out of it with one desire, that is that next time when I actually do die, I'd rather die a much slower way where I can watch it stage by stage and try to retain awareness through the whole process.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Many of the mystics of the East say that death is the ultimate orgasmic experience of life, is the culmination of life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe even take notes that your relatives can publish.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, or all I can say is that having experienced brushes with sudden death, it would be more blessing, even if there's pain in a slower death, to be available, to see it as it comes, in my opinion.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I'd rather be open to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
		All right.
		Well, I don't want to stop you from your story.
		Anyway, here, the car crashed, and I guess you, what happened to you?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was no time to think about dying because I wasn't dead in a way.
		I was thrown into this state of goldenness, and it's very difficult to explain in dialectics of words what this was, except that it was quite paradoxical that I was everywhere and nowhere at the same time, and that I was not thereing, so to speak, as much as I had been daring in my body just the moment before as a person in a body.
		And I recall presences there who were very loving and impressing upon me without words, without anything, in fact.
		It was like pure communication that I didn't have to go back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you, John?
		Sorry, I've got to ask these questions.
		Did you have a consciousness as you have at this moment as you talk with us?
		Was there a consciousness or was it something beyond what we know as consciousness?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would say it was my first very strong, well, one of my first very strong tastes of a glimpse of what our consciousness can be if we get beyond our identifications with our conditionings,
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		our predictability, our ideas that we just take for granted as truth when in fact we never, unfortunately most cultures don't even help us to question everything and to doubt everything that is put in our brains as children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it was a raised consciousness.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was an awakening.
		And it was a glimpse of what is possible.
		And in a way, since the experience, it has made it much easier to deal with the trials and tribulations of life.
		But the effort is for me to remember that there was this.
		I only have a taste of it as a memory now in my conscious state.
		But there are times when, through meditation, through the practice of the science of self-observation, I can get detached from my emotions and my feelings and be able to watch them.
		And in that state, there are times, even in my daily meditation, where I feel the gap of that same state is possible, is there.
		And so, I mean, for 20 years now, I've been a practitioner of meditation techniques.
		Many of them I describe in the narrative for the new book because there are many prophecies concerning meditation as the next step after superstitious and orthodox religions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, I still want to get through this.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		You had so much to cover.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said you had a choice.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, I had a choice, and I had a glimpse of the potentials of the next years of my life, and in that split second, I saw about the potential that could fill seven decades' worth of living.
		Just in a split second.
		And I realized that once I got back, I'd never, since I, this is the state, not only of myself, but the state of everyone when they're awakened, that glimpse that I had, I thought, well, when I go back to normal Long Beach, California, I'll probably kick myself.
		But I also know that if I live, if I even manage to live those seven more decades, it'll be all like a snap of a finger compared to what I have just tasted.
		And so I definitely am one of those people that's come out of a near-death experience.
		I was gone for 20 minutes.
		They were down in normal time and space continuum.
		The paramedics were working on the other man, and they basically couldn't get my door open, and then they thought I was dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you say gone?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, they saw me slumped over, ashen faced.
		They thought that I had been concussed or dead, and they were working on the other man who had hit me.
		And I know all this because of witnesses.
		And when I decided to go back, I kind of came back into my body, and the first thing I noticed was that my body wasn't broken.
		And I looked around, and I saw that the dashboard had been made into an accordion.
		It took most of the force of the collision.
		In another split second, he would have hit me square in the door, and that would have killed me.
		The foot pedals were tied in a bow tie.
		I still don't know how that happened, but they were all tied in a bow tie.
		Drive shaft was bent.
		Seats were at odd angles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now you were in one piece.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I looked and I kept saying, well, there's no cuts, no bruises, no broken bones.
		I was very calm and cool when I came back.
		I felt like I was a time traveler coming back from a million light-year journey or something.
		I was so deeply refreshed and calm, and yet surrounded by chaos and destruction, you know, and I hear this tap, tap, tap, and I look and see this ashen-faced paramedics saying, screaming through the window, can you get out?
		And I went, um, yeah.
unidentified		About my bad.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		You know, I think he was asking me for the parameters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you tell them about it?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		No.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't tell anyone about it for about a week, but I never felt the same after the experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody who's been in that says that.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It's almost like you get such a strong shock to your attachments to what you think is life and what you think is your fear of death that when you're so deeply shocked on that level, you come out of it, you never can get the connection to your attachments, to your points of view about life and death in the same way.
		I've heard many people having the same experience having said that, even if they experience different things.
		I mean, one thing I experienced when I was out of my body in that state was that I tried, parts of me somehow were trying to reach the people I was attached to and loved.
		Like, I remember hovering over my mother, trying to tell her that something happened.
		Instant same time, I kind of felt I was going into my girlfriend's body and watching her cutting carrots in the kitchen.
unidentified		Wow.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And then she stopped and folded her hands thoughtfully.
		And later, a few weeks afterwards, I asked her what she was feeling at the time.
		And what she told me, what I recall her saying is, after you called, I went into the kitchen and started cutting vegetables and cutting carrots.
		And about 20 minutes into it, I realized you were not coming and something terrible had happened to you.
		I just had this feeling that something very bad had happened.
		And I got the phone call from the hospital.
		So that was some objective verification of what I was experiencing outside of my normal conscious state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if something like that wouldn't change your life forevermore, I cannot think of anything that would.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And what I try to do in applying it to this book is that taking the personal experience to the impersonal, to the collective, if the prophets are indicating that all humanity is going to have a brush with sudden death in the coming decades on a collective level, global level, hopefully we can use that as the same shock to change the way we live.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe it will take that, and one can only wonder about the form it will take.
		Look, I've got several questions, so we've got to try to run through them quickly and then get the lines open at the top of the hour.
		Correct.
		All right.
		Could you have John address Notre Dame's prophecy on the description of the Antichrist?
		I've heard that the Antichrist was born February 2nd, 1965.
		I believe there is mention of a man in dark blue or a dark blue turban thanks adolf in Wichita, Kansas.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the blue turban interpretation comes from one of the finer scholars of the last generation of Nastradamians.
		It was Erika Cheetum.
		And that was in lieu of her interpretation that it was blue or black turbans of the Ayatollah of Iran.
		Definitely a potential candidate.
		But just quickly before I get into that, Nastradamus predicted three Antichrists that would take us three steps towards Armageddon.
		The first was Napoleon.
		Second was Hister, or Hitler.
		The third is a contemporary who will make his moves shortly after, a few years after, a celestial event with a comet.
		That's either dating 1986 or 1994 with Comet Shoemaker-Levy hitting Jupiter and the previous one being Halley's Comet.
		Now, so we're definitely in the time to see who that is.
		Now, my interpretation on this is similar to many others, that it is someone from the Middle East or North Africa.
		But where I vary from other scholars is that I think that the person who Nashdam is called the Mahbus, M-A-B-U-S, is not a major figure like the first two Antichrists, but someone more like an Oswald or a Gavrilo Princip who assassinates France Ferdinand and triggers World War I. Someone who could be as minor as one of the 200 members of Abu Nidal, a terrorist group, who has a suitcase full of plutonium or something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about the blue helmets of the UN, John?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, blue, I'm actually re-examining all applications of the word blue in old French.
		Right now I'm going through a process where I'm looking at every 34,000 plus words of Nasradamas and taking an exhaustive study of their etymology through the centuries.
		And so I'm still, I'm re-examining all that about the blue helmets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		That'll come out in the next book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I am an officer in a civil defense organization in the Kansas City area listening to you on KCMOA 10.
		Ask your guest what we here in the Midwest need to know about the next few years.
		What do we need to prepare for?
		What does he think is headed our way?
		How does he think we ought to prepare?
		That's from Independence, Missouri.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that the people in Missouri should continue to work hard to prepare for earthquakes and be more earthquake conscious and try to make their towns safer.
		And it would be good for people to learn earthquake drills and do some of the things that people in California and the West Coast do.
		Because there's a good chance of some earthquake activity taking place in the next 10 years in that region.
		Certainly the gosh, it's such a loaded question, so many angles to it.
		Essentially, what everybody has to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They can take it, Joan.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, is be open to the unknown.
		And this is true of the Midwest.
		It's true of all peoples of the world.
		Be ready.
		You know, the thing is that we always think we're afraid of the unknown.
		But in fact, we're afraid of what we know because we keep thinking what traumas that have happened in our knowledge of the past is going to be repeated in the future.
		And then we somehow are conditioned to think that the unknown is something terrifying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you prepared to argue history does not repeat itself?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think we've reached a point in our evolution where for the first time the human race has to grow up.
		That means one of the things that we have to stop doing is repeating history and being so predictable.
		I'm quite, essentially I'm anti-prophetic, and I have a rather strange eccentric angle of dealing with that.
		I learn every nook and cranny about the subject.
		In a way, my discipline is more of an Eastern form of Tantra, where you know a thing and transcend it rather than repress it.
		And I think essentially what everybody needs to see is how we keep repeating the mistakes of the past and we call it the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you checked your own attitude for denial?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		This is the key in my work is in the narrative.
		I try not to talk down to people as if I know anything.
		In fact, I have notes at the beginning of the book saying, look, you know, I'm just another person.
		What I'm sharing with you is that my study is exhaustive and my practice of meditation has been two decades now.
		And I claim that that helps me to kind of step back and not only view my own biases and prophetic hopes and fears, but also, on a collective level, see that reflected in the rest of the world.
		And that at least in my posing, my work.
		It's very important to know your own prophetic biases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Greetings, John and R. A question.
		Are there any prophecies concerning people being attracted to people they have known in past lifetimes?
		This would be a gathering of old souls whose paths have crossed in one or more previous lives.
		I've had some startling indications that this gathering is actually occurring.
		Are there prophecies about this?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, one concerning Osho, again, actually just recently, before he died, said that many of the great masters and adepts and bodhisattvas, that's people, devotees that are dedicated their many lives to helping humanity grow and kind of hurdle over this most difficult passage that we'll probably ever see, are among us today.
		And perhaps that, again, is another reason why some people authentically are experiencing something angelic and attributing that label to it.
		But there's a lot of energy and a lot of forces and a lot of souls in the world right now trying to help this world move through this.
		And I would add that we have 5.5 billion souls actually in Earth bodies right now.
		It's probably the most significant number of people in the world in one time.
		And one would think that the coming ages may see a decrease, a dramatic decrease in population.
		So it's almost like a last chance for a lot of people for a very long time to incarnate on this planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, is there really any way, as I look ahead, if I were to try my hand at prophecy, I would say that the continuing population build will not continue.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It cannot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It cannot, right.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Unless we have a quantum change leap in our technologies.
		I mean, we could sustain 50 billion people on this planet and spaciously.
		But to do that, we would have to change 180 degrees a lot of what we hold as hallowed icons of truth and justice and morality.
		I mean, it would be a very different world.
		I mean, that is possible.
		However, the way the trend is going, we are too divisive right now, too split, too schizophrenic in our dividing the world into 300 nations, 300 mindsets on God, it goes on and on.
		This is one of the things that will not survive well in the coming century simply because of the necessity of human survival to drop anything that does not help planned parenting, does not help population control.
		I mean, it's going to be a tough time for people in Orthodox religions, like leaders of Orthodox religions like the Pope, to hold on to ideas like contraception as being a sin when what is screaming all over the world is that too many people blindly being birthed into this world without enough resources is a greater sin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I could not agree more, and I'm afraid that if we're awaiting Rome's change of heart and mind on this issue, the world is doomed.
		John, here's another one.
		Iran's recent agreement with Russia will be the hook predicted in Ezekiel 37 and 38, which will bring God down into Israel and start the beginning of the last days, as from Dennis in Missoula, Montana.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		The indications for Armageddon are that many of the final steps towards that are there, including the fact that peace will be at hand in the Middle East, that it will appear that the Arab and the Jew have found a way to live in harmony in the Middle East.
		Other indications are this will happen around a time when the Euphrates dries up.
		There are times in the last few years when the Atatürk Dam project, a big, huge water hydraulic project in Turkey, just the headwaters to the Euphrates, has cut off the flow of the Euphrates by 75% at times.
		The Middle East has a very serious problem with water shortage.
		Certainly, if the Euphrates dries up, or they estimate that if things go the way they are going, in 10 years it will be dried up.
		There could very easily be a war in that area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, John, let's hold it right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I need to get to the top of the air and do something here very quickly, and then we will open the telephone lines.
unidentified		The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		Now we take you back to the past on Art Bell somewhere in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is kind of the final wave of the stations joining us at this hour.
		If you are joining us at this hour, I'm sorry for you.
		You have missed two hours, two incredible hours, with John Hoag.
		But you haven't missed it all because he's still here.
		Who's John Hogue?
		John Hog is none other than the world's leading authority on Nostradomus.
		He's got several books published.
		will tell you all about them shortly we've been talking about the nature of Nostradomus, Soothsayer's Prediction, the nature of time, near-death experiences.
		And you'll get the taste of it in just a moment.
		We're about to open up the telephone lines.
		I do want to once again promo the fact that you will see John Hoag this Friday on Ancient Prophecies on the NBC Television Network, 8 o'clock p.m.
		Most time zones, if not all.
		check your local television guide.
		John is the technical expert and will be seen frequently on We'll get back to John Hogue in just a moment.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 15th, 1994.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you all are ready, let us bring back once again John Hoag.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		If you wouldn't mind, let's travel to the world of who knows where and see what's out there.
		We don't screen calls, John, so anything can happen.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I'm ready.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, anything can happen as in nobody being there.
		Or how about this one?
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Hogue.
unidentified		Yes, John.
		This is Brian from Austin, Texas.
		Hi, Brian.
		I was wondering, what did you what was your conjecture about how Nostradomus came by his prognostication?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, he claims that it was a gift of his progenitor's.
		Is genetic or hereditary.
		He also said that his son wouldn't have the gift, that it would die with him.
		So essentially, that's his claim.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for the call.
		On the wild card line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Morning, Mr. Bell.
		Hi.
		I'd like to ask your guest, what does the Nostradamus prediction say will be the condition of Israel at the end of time?
		And this Sam, by the way, from Chico.
		Chico, all right.
		And if he's ever read the book I mentioned to you last week called The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, in which the Zionist group that wrote the book say that a descendant of King David will rule the world.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is a common hope of many prophetic traditions, Judeo-Christian, Judaic, the Hindu, the Muslim, all are waiting for a certain messianic figure that is going to rule the world, basically.
		The Christians think the second coming of Christ, the Muslims think about the 12th Imam.
		The Buddhists are waiting for Maitreya, the friend.
		And in the end of Millennium Book of Prophecy, I have a page full of lists that even cites Eskimo prophets, Eskimo Messiahs, as well as the mainstream messiahs.
		And it's basically called Name That Messiah.
		And essentially, what I'm getting at is that almost every religion, every prophetic tradition, has their man as the man coming back and all the others as false prophets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is, nevertheless, a great commonality there.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and that's certainly they're all seeing something.
		They're all seeing something happening around now.
		So that is very significant.
		What we need to do is perhaps be a little less identified with the personifications and the particular politically correct slant of each religion so that we can step back a bit and just look at the phenomenon.
		Something amazing is coming.
		Something messianic is coming.
		But whether it's a person or whether it's an impersonal experience of a collective lift in consciousness, an impersonal messiah, if you will, that is, rather than looking for someone to take on your sins and your burdens and your responsibilities, you as an individual suddenly awaken to your own Buddha consciousness or Christ consciousness within on a collective scale.
		That may be what the Aquarian Age is about, rather than a return of the Piscan Age Messiahs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Makes me feel as though I had a brace against my desk.
		All right, on the wild card line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
		Good morning.
unidentified		All right, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		Simi Valley, California.
		Okay.
		I've got a problem with Nostradamus' claim of the Antichrist and Armageddon I'd like to comment on.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		The Bible says, I've studied biblical prophecy for 15 years.
		I'm not a Bible thumper, and I don't go to church, but I'm pretty much, I try to be a Christian and everything.
		But the Bible says that the Antichrist will be a European and will take over the second symbolic rising of the Roman Empire, which today we know as the European Union.
		And I think by the late 90s, we'll see Europe rise up like a United States of Europe type of deal, which will become global, and the Antichrist will take that over, and then sign a treaty with Israel, a global type treaty, like a New World Order type of deal.
		And seven years after that, it's called the Seven Year Tribulation, and that's when the Lord's going to return.
		And in between that time is when World War III will happen, Armageddon, and all the other fun things, the earth changes and everything we've been talking about.
		And I'd like to know your guest comment on this.
		Oh, yeah, Armageddon.
		I think that's when the Western nations and the Asian army, the 200 million-man army, will come marching across the Middle East and across the Euphrates River.
		And they'll try to prevent the Lord from returning, and he'll wipe them out and set up the Millennium Kingdom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, that's a lot to comment on.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, essentially, for a long, something very significant happening in our time.
		I'm going to dedicate almost a whole book to it in a few years.
		You have one of the most influential religions in the world, is Christianity right now.
		And it has the Judeo-Christian ethic.
		It is basically whether a person is actually a Christian or not, is quite dominant in the world of our modern-day civilization.
		Also, what is quite dominant is a mass idea of interpreting the Bible a certain way.
		And one of the dangers in collective interpretation is that if you can convince enough people that a certain set of things have to happen before your man, your Messiah comes, And you're almost trying to self-fulfill the destruction of half the world.
		And that is...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose we're quite capable of bringing it on, aren't we?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, consider this.
		You know, a man like Pat Robertson was trying to become President of the United States.
		Now, the man is a sincere man.
		However, if he had become President of the United States and with his deep convictions in that particular doomsday scenario, which is pretty much the man from Simi Valley pretty much expressed the basic idea of this that you get on most evangelical shows, which I do watch in my study.
		And now, if that man becomes President of the United States, can he be completely sure that on an unconscious level, there isn't a part of him that might want to fall into fulfilling that as the most powerful man in the world and do things in his policy that kind of backs backwards into those self-fulfilling prophecies?
		As John, as David Koresh fulfilled his own Well, the thing, another kind of danger point in the messianic ideas of the Christian world is that there are this has not been the first time, perhaps the last time that certain sects of Christianity has put their spin on the revelation prophecies.
		And Jim Jones did it, Koresh did it.
		And all I'm saying is for us to be aware that even the mainstream Christian church has a certain collective interpretation these days that a lot of destruction of the earth and of people has to happen before the second coming of Christ.
		Whether that's prophecy or projection is something we all have to ask ourselves when we look at prophecy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then you would not be all that comfortable with the election to that office of somebody of that sort?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, no.
		I would be more comfortable with someone who is a little more disassociated with his wish-fulfilling desires on a religious level.
		I think it would...
		It's...
		Yes, basically that's what I would say.
		Zealots are dangerous, you know, even well-meaning zealots and not so well-meaning zealots.
		I mean, zeal has a certain way of getting one rather narrow and single-pointed, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So extremism, even perhaps an instated cause of liberty, could be damn dangerous.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
		I mean, I'll never forget the day that someone read me a speech.
		It was in the 60s, and I was really feeling frustrated about the lack of law and order.
		And somebody read me this speech.
		And it was a really beautiful speech about what we must do for law and order and protect our homes and families.
		And I listened to him and went, wow, that's really great.
		Who wrote that?
		And the man said, Adolf Hitler, 1927.
unidentified		And I was like shocked, you know, having realized that...
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		You see, consciousness, self-awareness, as far as I'm concerned, is the only virtue.
		And unconsciousness is the only sin.
		If you're...
		And I speak, of course, it's just one man, my experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Collectively, yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		That a lot of...
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you could call it a good thing that we heal a lot of the childhood diseases that allows most children who would have died for the 1920s, who have died for their five years old, now got to live and have full lives.
		But is it completely a good thing?
		Or is there an unconsciousness in it?
		Because certainly, by creating a longer-lasting life, we have had this population explosion, which is now threatening the life of the planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Or perhaps even a better example would be Bangladesh or one of those countries where people are, as an actual course, starving to death, literally dropping in the streets.
		We've had lots of recent examples of it, seen all the pictures.
		And we go running over there and feed them.
		And we feed them to the point that they're ready to multiply.
		They have very little else to do other than sex.
		It's a great enjoyment.
		They do lots of that.
		And so in the end, our action really, if you get down and dirty about it, causes the extended suffering of many more.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		To see it's like we do things halfway.
		And it's very much a symptom of unconscious reactions to things.
		Even when people in their hearts and in their sincerity reach out to help, it's like we have...
		Because we are not fully conscious of the consequences of our responsibilities, it seems that we in our good there's a hidden curse and sometimes in our evil actions there may be a hidden virtue.
		I guess I've lived too long in the East and I basically have lived quite a lot of my time in India in the last decade and Thailand and other places in the East.
		And I feel with living with the people in the East that they have a very different way of looking at things.
		More, I wouldn't say amoral because we've attributed that word to be negative.
		I would say more transmoral.
		There are certain where you kind of the watcher of good and evil but not the good and evil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mentioned Thailand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bangkok, John, is in the process, according to a lot of people that I've talked to, of self-destruction with regard to AIDS.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and Bombay is even worse right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even worse.
		We've got to get to these phone lines, so talk around them here on the Tollfree line.
		You're on the air with John Hoag.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I was wondering, you touched on things like Armageddon and the Antichrist, but I never hear you talk about the prophecy that's probably one-third of the Bible.
		And why don't you give credence to Jesus Christ?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, that's where you're prophets.
		Where are you calling from, sir?
unidentified		I'm calling from Clearwater, Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Clearwater, Florida.
		All right.
		John, what about that?
		There is a very great deal of prophecy in the Bible.
		Very clear, even itself, very specific.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I think I have about 200 of my 777 prophecies in the Millennium Book of Prophecy are from the Bible, from the Old and New Testaments, from the three Isaiahs and the 23 Daniels.
		And that's one thing I want to say is that there's actually many people writing under the name Isaiah and Daniel and other prophets that I include In this work, I also talk about, I never mention when there's a prophecy by Jesus, I have dozens of them in the book.
		They're fantastic prophecies.
		But I don't call him Jesus, I call him by the name he really had, Yeshua.
		And I do that as a statement, editorial statement, to show how things can be changed with time.
		All the religions seem to suffer from revision as the millennia have passed by.
		And it's difficult to separate the orthodoxy and the dogma from the actual living teaching of any catalyst for a new religion, be he Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad, and what have you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so the answer is he needs to read your book.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, the answer I would also say is that often people say, well, it says in scripture, this and that.
		And I often interrupt and say, oh, you mean Buddhist scripture?
		They go, no, no, I mean in scripture.
		And I go, oh, you mean the Quran?
		No, no.
		And it's just like, what I try to expose in my work is the kind of the blinders that every group has.
		I mean, I've talked to the How Lindsays of nearly every mainstream religion, and they have, with as much conviction and sincerity, showed me how their prophecies are right and the Christian prophecies are wrong and vice versa.
		And so this kind of single-pointed fixation of each dogmatic point of view of each religion is something that really has to be examined in the coming years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can hear the edge of almost anger in his voice.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, I'm sure what I was saying has hurt him and maybe thousands of others in the last five minutes of things I've been saying.
		Rather than be hurt, just observe it.
		See if it's true for you.
		If it's not, it's not.
		I'm no threat to Jesus Christ or Muhammad or anybody else.
		I'm just a man.
		I just have an experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but you're John Hoag.
		You do major network television shows.
		You're here on a national radio show.
		To many, you are bigger than life, and they hang upon every word.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm glad you put that out because the responsibility of each person is to, you know, look at it, and I would hope they will doubt what I'm saying in the way the word originally was intended, in its Indo-European roots, to hover between yes and no.
		Not to be skeptic in that I walk in already saying no or doubting as being something negative.
		Doubting is neutral.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's a good point to break, and that's what we're going to do right here at the bottom of the hour.
		My guest is John Hog.
		He is the world's expert right now on Nostradamus and his predictions.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 15, 1994.
		Coast to Coast AM from November
		15, 1994.
		Coast to Coast AM from November 15, 1994.
		Coast to Coast AM from November 15, 1994.
		Premier Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 15th of November, 1994.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back to the best, the largest live overnight talk radio program in America because this radio station, the one you're listening to, cares enough to have live talk radio on at this hour.
		Our guest is John Fog.
		He is the world's expert on Mostradamus, predictions, prophecy.
		He can be seen this coming Friday night on Ancient Prophecies, the television show on NBC.
		If you have questions, we'll get back to them in just a moment.
unidentified		sad music
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 15th, 1994.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music Music Music Music Music Back now to John Hoag from Denver, Colorado.
		Could you please ask Mr. Hoag the following?
		In your opinion, you stated that there are a quantum of possible futures.
		Could you elaborate?
		And then also, would you comment on the statement, a future already known is the past?
		That's from Denver.
		John?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, that there is, I love that quote, actually, because there is some truth to that.
		I would say, you always hear about Generation X, the youngest generation, coming out of the baby busters and boomers, as having no future.
		Well, frankly, I've not yet found anybody to support that any generation has had a future.
		I don't think we've had a future.
		We've been always repeating the past and calling it the future because I feel we program our generations to follow the same mindsets that we followed into wars and waves of extreme left or right leaning and what have you.
		I mean, It's the pattern that is almost all too predictable without any sense of clairvoyance.
		So that was the first half.
		It isn't the future.
		I agree.
		We're repeating the past.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And let's see, what was the other part?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The quantum of futures.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, the quantum future is, in the case of Nasradamus, most 900 of his prophecies are very obscure and open to all kinds of interpretation.
		There's some reason for that.
		One is that they're wrong.
		Second, since there's an estimation that his history of the future goes into the 9th millennium after Christ, so they might be about events way beyond even our existence on this planet, which is also inferred in his prophecies.
		The one that I think is most likely is that they are these quantum futures, these roads of collective potentials that, because a major figure like the King of France didn't survive a jousting accident,
		didn't avoid it, did not trigger a whole set of French history which, since French history was dominating the continental European history for so many centuries, would have taken us perhaps a completely different angle, which would have made Hitler and World War II and Napoleon and all that just a lot of obscurity in the quatrains.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or if Kennedy hadn't been shot.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		There's an indication implied in the prophecies that if this is attributed to Kennedy, then he would have been a great king.
		It's the same with the abdication of Edward VIII to marry Wallace Simpson.
		The indication is very clear there that Nasadamus didn't have a lot of high words to say of George.
		King George came after him.
		I said he wasn't a man ready for kingship and that the real great king was the one they forced out and became Duke of Windsor.
		In my final book on Nasadamus, I'm going to look at those quantum futures and actually try to translate them or interpret what I think are rather than obscure prophecies, but actually quantum futures that we didn't follow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would imagine with the many, many years of research you've done, both into real history and his predictions, you probably are just about to the point where you may be one of the world's best people to actually interpret.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess the ultimate judge on that will be time, and the people of the future will have to examine my works.
		I mean, what I try to do in all radio and TV shows is I try to get tapes and transcribe everything.
		And actually, what I did in Nastrodamos and the Revelations is be a little critical of some of my prophetic interpretations from the first Nastridamus book, using myself as the kidney pig, if you will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to ask, John, is some portion of your wall devoted to your own interpretations?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's unavoidable.
		It's unavoidable if one has a mind that is conditioned in one particular corner of the world to see things in a certain way.
		There's no doubt that I will taint it, the prophecy.
		The difference that I propose to your listeners is that my study and practice of meditation probably makes me better able to take a step back from my own prophetic biases and examine them as well as the interpretation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
		Good morning.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Good morning.
		I'm calling from Lake Elsinore, California.
		Two real quick questions.
		I read a prophecy of Nostradamus where he says that on July 7th, 1999, his prophecy will be fulfilled.
		I like your comment on that.
		I've also read a prophecy.
		It's called the Prophecy of Malachi, in which he states that the last Pope is going to be Peter II when all the Antichrist tribulation stuff happens.
		And I like your comment on both of those.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, the end of prophecy in 99, John.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's quatrain 72, I believe, of century 10.
		And it's actually 1999 in seven months.
		So it's July of 1999.
		And it's a pretty horrific warning.
		Basically, the great king of terror descends from the sky, and they will resurrect the king of the Mongols.
		I look at that.
		The final line is, before and after Mars rules happily.
		Or it can be interpreted, before and after war rules happily.
		Problem with the key.
		First about the great king of the Mongols.
		Now that's Genghis Khan.
		And I wonder, is this a riddle, or is this literal, or is this poetic?
		Or is this one of his clues to dating the time of when to start looking for this difficult window that ends in 1999?
		I did find out that in the end of the 80s, after Tiananmen Square massacre, the leaders, the old leaders of China, rehabilitated Genghis Khan in Chinese school books, put him back in and made him as a noble model of all that was good in being a tyrant.
		So in a way, bringing back to life Genghis Khan does not have to mean that actually a reincarnation of Genghis Khan or an Eastern leader, but simply it's already happened.
		So 1989 would be the beginning, one end of the window that ends with the other end in 1999.
		Now, there's a hopeful clue inside this prophecy, and that is the link is Mars.
		Now, most interpreters of Nasodamas, I would criticize them for not looking at the occult significance of the application of words in prophecies.
		Man was a mystic and an occult scientist.
		Mars is, everything in the occult has two aspects, one negative and one positive.
		Now, Mars can be quite negative if it's the god of war.
		That's the lower vibratory potentials of the planet in astrology.
		In the higher forms, it is Mars the Magus, the magician, the one who holds the rod of Hermes, which is the rod of a religious point of view that sees as above so below all is divine.
		It is almost comparable to the tantric point of view in the East that all is divine.
		So how can you divide the world into black and white?
		You embrace the world as one divine thing of either lower energies or higher energies in the play of the divine.
		So that's the Hermetic point of view.
		So before and after Mars rules, in fact, that was even something David McCallum said so well in his Shakespearean style in Ancient Prophecies Part 1, Mars rules.
		And what they didn't do in the show is, which is one of the few criticisms I have of the show, is that they don't really spend enough time giving you both sides of the prophetic angle.
		I will predict for you that probably this doomsday theme of Friday's show will probably be much doomier and gloomier than I would like them to portray.
		Hopefully as we do more and more of these shows, they'll run out of dark things to say and give me a chance to talk about all the alternatives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you at all familiar, while we've mentioned Mars, with the work of Richard Hoagland with regard to the new geometry and the face on Mars and the newer revelations and the photographs of the structures on the moon?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I think I have his most recent picture book on that, the Martian faces.
		I remember when that first was seen years and years ago.
		We will only know, hopefully in our lifetime, we'll find out whether it was just one of those funny freaks of fate that the Mars probe just had an accident and shut off or whether it was shut off.
		Certainly, if those images are proven to be humanoid-made by intelligent life, can you imagine anything that would overnight topple, shift the axis of political and religious opinion as significantly as all the prophecies about the Earth axis shifting?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you brought it together perfectly.
		No, I certainly couldn't.
		And maybe it is the event.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And in fact, I contend in the Millennium Book of Prophecy that there's two ways of looking at all the shift of the Earth's axis prophecies.
		Either it's a shift, physical shift of the Earth by 40 degrees, as Ruth Montgomery's spirit guides seem to indicate, or it is a shift in consciousness.
		And certainly I think we're a few years away from having some understanding that there is intelligent life out there that no one can deny.
		I would almost say that we've been slowly prepared for it for the last 50 years.
		And to where when it does finally happen, we almost take it for granted.
		And that there's intelligent life out there.
		But in another aspect, Arthur C. Clarke said it best in one of his sequels to 2001, I think 2060 or something, where he said when they discovered that there was life on Jupiter in his fictional story, overnight, a lot of the people solved their differences on national levels and became a global body.
		The UN overnight became the law of the Earth.
		Simply because now there's someone out there that we have to deal with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people fear that right now.
		A lot of talk about it on talk shows.
		On the Toll-Free Line, you're on the air with John Hogue.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Good morning, gentlemen.
unidentified		This is Vinny in Wichita.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Vinny.
unidentified		Mr. Hogue, excuse me, was just touching on what I was going to ask about.
unidentified		If there's any prophecy in Nostradamus concerning UFO abductions and contact with intelligence of an extraterrestrial origin, I'll hang up and listen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a really good one.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, Vinny, I'm trying right now in my study of the etymology of all the words to look at all the possible angles to the old French word étrangier, which is étrangé in modern French, and see if foreign or alien, whatever, can be applied in those futuristic terms.
		At this moment in my study, I would not say that there is something that stands up and screams in my face saying it's about extraterrestrial events.
		There are, of course, in other traditions of prophecy, a lot of indications of that.
		And in my next book on the collective prophecy theme, I'm going to deal with that.
		But in Nasradamus, it's a little obscure.
		But we'll see.
		Maybe on the third book, when I've done this re-examination of all the usages of words, I might come up with some interpretations in that matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, are you familiar with a rather obscure document called The Pope's Predictions?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is perhaps concerning the St. Malachi predictions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is a document that purports to have been from the diary of a Pope.
		I can't recall just which one.
		I'm sorry, I've got it here somewhere.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm not aware of it.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I'd love to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That came from a Philippine newspaper which predicts events in 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if you have not seen it or heard of it, I'll try and get you a copy.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that'd be great.
		Usually there's so much of a wealth of prophecies out there.
		And then I have to go through a process where once I get it, then I have to verify where it's really from before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, let's go back to the phone.
		A lot of people on here.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John.
		Hoag, where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Evans, Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, go ahead.
unidentified		Good evening, guys.
		Just a couple points here, real quick.
		Your guest seems to be suffering from a syndrome I've noticed among certain people who'd like to deny the truth of the Bible.
		They'll try and say that it's all a lie or that.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I didn't say that.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		So what are you suffering from?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's suffering from a terminal narrow-mindedness, in my opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that is my opinion.
unidentified		Well, I'll just move on then.
		You said something about how we're going to have to reduce population.
		Do you believe in population control?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good straight-out question.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		That would be a straight answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be the exact answer that I would give him, too.
		And he would argue long and hard against it, as would the Vatican.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
		Good morning.
		Hello there.
		Going once, going twice, going three times.
		On the second wildcard line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
unidentified		Hello.
		Oh, hi.
		This is Pat from Boise KIDO Territory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boise, Idaho, yes.
unidentified		Right.
		I'm going to bring it down to a more earthly level.
		What does Nostradamus have to say about the Ring of Fire and specifically the Cascades?
		And just saw a program on the Discovery Channel tonight about a lot of new faults discovered under Los Angeles and the Northridge quake putting a lot of pressure on those faults.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, nothing specifically about the Ring of Fire.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		That's the ring of volcanoes that rings the entire Pacific coasts of Asia, Australasia, and North South.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Frequent geologic movement.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Now, there's a lot more said in Egukesi and other prophets than Natsudamis.
		Certainly there is one obscure prophecy that has a clear, in most people's interpretation, contemporary story, but it doesn't mention the city except that it's called the New City.
		And it only mentions the time in May that would happen, this earthquake, but it does not mention the year as far as I can see so far in looking at it.
		And because of that prophecy, almost every May in L.A. there's a hysteria about, oh, this is the May of the big one.
		You have a lot of people crying wolf about it.
		I will only say that getting back to what you said earlier about the physical phenomenon, that the alignment of planets merging behind the Sun and pulling away from Earth's orbit in May of 2000 certainly will cause a lot of solar flare activity, will cause a lot of gravitational pull.
		And I mean, it's not, this is, let's make this clear, this is not a clairvoyant prediction.
		It's simply looking at the phenomenon around that that seems to me to be one of the best windows for an earthquake having on the San Andreas fault of that magnitude.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A good time to go visit the friends in Midwest somewhere.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but I hope that my interpretation is dreadful only in that it's dreadfully wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
		Where are you calling from, please?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Memphis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Memphis, Tennessee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I had a question about a quat train that Memphis is, well, the term Memphis is in it.
		I don't know which Memphis, but it talks about the Great Mercury of Hercules.
		And it mentions the words Flirta Lee.
		The roads will be greatly improved.
		I do not have the century and number, but I wonder if you remembered it.
		Not offhand.
		There's over a thousand of them.
		But I do remember the reference to Memphis.
		And so far, I think it's probably one of Nostradamus' classical allusions to modern Egypt rather than Memphis on the Mississippi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds like you're safe.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Bill.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for the call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose anything, any word or city name in modern day uttered by Nostradamus is going to be a cause for worry.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Yes.
		I would say that the difficulty with Nostradamus is that he has created clearly and consciously a very obscure device.
		And he's done that to keep the controversy of his prophecies going for centuries.
		And I would say that it's worked, and ultimately it can be, if used rightly, what we're really talking about here is for the last few hours is how we affect the future today.
		And the controversy of future is, you know, without Notre Dame, we wouldn't be thinking about it so much in the last few centuries.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the toll-free line, your turn with John Hoag.
		Good morning.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Well, this is Tom of Kansas City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Tom.
unidentified		John, I'd like to know, did Notre Damas predict any good news for our future?
		Secondly, did he predict when the Antichrist would come into power?
		And if so, what would life be like under his rule?
		So I'll hang up and listen on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you from Kansas City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good news?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, there is.
		If we get through this next difficult period, something of a messianic nature will take place starting in the year 2002 and usher in a millennium of peace.
		In a thousand years from that time, mankind will kind of go to sleep again, get unconscious again.
		And then there's a very catastrophic change for Earth in the year 3797.
		Basically, it's destroyed by fire.
		However, in his distant prophecies, he talks about the races of man will long ago left Earth and will be living in cancer and for a longer time in Aquarius.
		Now, the way I look at the old French is that you can't live in a constellation unless you are living in the world of a constellation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, John, we've got to hold it there.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		We'll hold the question with regard to life under the Antichrist until after we come back, all right?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Very good.
		John Hoag is my guest.
		What an honor to have him here.
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
		Music
		You are listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast A.M. from November 15th, 1994.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I predict John Hogue will be with us all five hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really went out on a limb on that one.
unidentified		Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues, courtesy of Premier Networks.
unidentified		Music
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, are you there?
		Yep.
		Good.
		You're really up for one more hour, huh?
unidentified		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Your prophecy will be fulfilled.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want a spot on your wall.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I just have a prophecy to add to your gold prophecy.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It's from Hermes Trismagiskis from 1st century A.D., when he said, Fortunate is the man who knows how to read the signs of the times, for that man shall escape many misfortunes, or at least be prepared to understand the blow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I love it.
		All right, on the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
		Hello there.
		Hello there on the toll-free line.
		Going once, going twice, gone.
		On the wildcard line, it's your turn with John Hogue.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, this is sunshine.
		And may I hang Art?
		Because we lose you this hour.
		Did you hear his response?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry?
unidentified		May I hang out?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
		What is your question?
		Yes, what is your question?
unidentified		Thanks.
		I have a couple of things.
		John, were you aware of that cloth train that they put in one of those yellow rag sheets about O.J.?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm trying to get a copy of it.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I don't think it holds much weight.
unidentified		I wondered if it was.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I get that question a lot.
		Did O.J. do it?
		Well, I think at least my study of prophecy is focused on more matters that affect us all, personally, like the movements of the leaders of political and religious changes and earth changes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it somehow bad karma to use prophecy for lesser things?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, an example might be able to answer by an example.
		What often happens to great visionaries, prophets, is that they sometimes, when they've made truly successful and authentic predictions, there's a temptation for them to get into the gin mill of spinning out predictions by the dozen for a lot of tabloidal papers.
		I used to keep for years a log of the New Year's predictions for each year of the National Inquirer and then check to see if any of them came true.
		And I mean the sequence of accuracy was just pure chance if anything happened.
		It seemed very few ever were fulfilled.
		And one of the people who I feel is truly authentic, who's kind of fallen for that rut, is Jean Dixon.
		And I mean, she definitely authentically predicted many remarkable things.
		But in 1988, end of 88, she made a whole bunch of predictions for 89.
		And almost all of them would be dreadfully wrong, except for one that was quite right.
		She said that the Berlin Wall would be sold as souvenirs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		So she still got it sometimes.
		She still got it.
		But yeah, I just simply, I haven't had time in the publicity to actually look and see if there's any correlation.
		I mean, I will look.
		I look at anything crazy or not and see if it has some application.
		Certainly, my own rules of interpreting Mastodon, because the trial has become such a public collective thing, I will have to take a more serious examination of the quatrains, see if there's anything that indicates O.J. Simpson or what have you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One has to wonder if you actually go looking for something like that with the volume of the quatrains if you're not almost sure to find something.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is another aspect of my work which I start with this second book in Nasr Damas, is the fanaticism of interpretation or disinterpretation.
		The blind believers who will just pull out anything.
		I mean, there's some books out now that are a new low in Nasradamus interpretation, making all kinds of wild claims that are just dreadfully wrong.
		And it's amazing how the claims always come out about a year after publication, so they get some profit from their prophecy before the books are all on receivership shelves because they're just so dreadful.
		But the other side of the coin of fanaticism is the blind debunker.
		The people who will come into the subject of non-stadams with their conclusions already made and then just try to find bits and pieces here that they can cram up their own conclusions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Phil class of predictions.
unidentified		The James Randy of the Realms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, I've got four very fast questions here, and I'd like fast answers if we can get them.
		One, this comes by facts.
		Have a few questions on different areas of interest.
		One, are there any predictions about the fall of the English monarchy?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are some that could be applied to it.
		A change of reign has come up a few times.
		I've even commented on it in the previous book.
		However, it is pretty obscure.
		It could be a change of the reign of centuries, or the reign of many things.
		So there again, there are many Ostradamas quatrains that really expose the interpreter and the interpretation rather than actually Clarify a future event.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There have been very recent difficulties, as you know, for the monarchy.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let's keep moving.
		I've got four of them.
		Two, I once read in an Ostradamus book of the total destruction of New York City, which I believe was called New World City.
		Do you still see this?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's based on the Garden of the World, which has been interpreted since the mid-40s to be the Garden State, kind of the old law of an Ostradamas that you pick something nearby, the real event, when you really want to talk about New York or the new city.
		And again, the prophecies dealing with an earthquake or natural disasters hitting the new city could also apply to New York.
		He also might have described it as the Hollow Mountains.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or the Garden State, New Jersey.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And also the fact that, well, potentially the quattra numbering of 97 could mean 1997 as a window around that time.
		But New City could also apply.
		There's the latitude 45 is where the city is supposed to be.
		And when I look at a good map of the world, there's only one major city that even comes close to exactly being under latitude 45, and that's Belgrade in Serbia.
		And in fact, the northern new suburb, Novi Belgrade, new Belgrade, new city, if you like, is even closer.
		So I threw out in the new revelations the new interpretation saying, you know, all New York City interpretations aside, maybe it's talking about Belgrade.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that within the next year, this world will turn on its axis, causing massive changes?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		The period of time, if you look at Edgar Casey's plotting of it, as well as Master Damas, it would seem like 98, 99 through 2000, 2001, if you look at the Pyramid Prophets-Chaldean time cycle, that's your window.
		Between 2001 and 1998 is your window for this.
		Now, I feel, I wouldn't have said this 10 years ago, but I feel more inclined to think that it is a shift in perspective, in paradigm, rather than a shift in the axis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and finally, this is from LS in Southern California.
		The last question.
		If you were me, would you move out of Southern California soon?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, if I were to answer that, I would be taking on many responsibilities.
		I would be presuming that you're not there how to put this.
		This is a loaded question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've already answered it.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's about my place to tell you what to do.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		My place is to provide you data, and it's your place to make your decisions in your life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Well, good morning, gentlemen.
unidentified		Hello.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		John, what's your prediction on this new Republican bill that's circulating that says this?
		Young mothers, 18 years old and younger, are going to have their welfare cut off.
		Then, if they cannot support that child, their child is going to be put in an orphanage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let me translate that very direct political slam as Bessie could get it in, into a wider question, John.
		There is certainly a move toward a much more conservative atmosphere in America.
		I mean, the changing the House, the Senate, the whole thing, the whole business is changing, and our direction is changing.
		What do you make out of this?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Very simple.
		We've weathered through the extreme left of the Johnson years, and we swang, now we're swinging to extreme right.
		What's basically happening is this is a symptom of collective anger in the world.
		People made a very angry collective vote.
		And the problem with anger is, I'm not saying I'm for or against it, I'm just simply stating the sentiments of anger, is that it often, when a gesture is done in anger, it tends to polarize rather than unite.
		The thing that I see is that there's a very great opportunity for American politicians in the next two years.
		I think the message, as far as I would look at it as a prophetic scholar, is American people want it to work.
		So they want people to find consensus and bipartisanship in the general sense.
		And when I felt that I was kind of vindicated by the recent poll, over 62% of people want the government to work.
		They don't want it to be seen as a pro-Republican right-wing idea.
		They just want the Congress and the President to work together to make the government work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, John, do you predict that the Republicans will blow it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, they will take this mandate to mean let's go for a good, hard shift to the right instead of let's govern in the center?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
		Unfortunately, I would like to be optimistic and think that they will follow more Bob Dole's point of view about that contract, but I think Newt's point of view is going to win out, and an extreme elements of the party are going to have a very divisive, maybe even split, the Republican Party.
		It would be unfortunate.
		I would love to see there be a balance, but I think what will come out of the next two years is the American people will neither be extreme right or extreme left.
		They will see the real revolution lies within being in the center.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, on the wildcard line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, calling from St. Louis, KSD.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just one question.
unidentified		I wonder if we can get John's telephone number again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you bet we can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, tell them about your books and give the individual numbers once again, if you would, please.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the Millennium Book of Prophecy, for this book, it is 1-800-331-3761.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And then for the Nostradamus, the New Revelations, It is 1-800-253-6476.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you told me which of the books, is it the first one that's selling, you said, just like crazy?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is actually happening with both books.
		It's like the poor printers can't keep up with it.
		As soon as they get into the bookstores, they go.
		So if you don't find it in your bookstore, the other thing you do is just order, have them, they're on the computers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can go down to B-Dalton or whatever.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Or any bookstore that has a computer access to any warehouse of books, and you can backorder them.
		They're rushing as fast as they can to keep them in print in the bookstores, that is.
		But if you follow the 1-800 number, you're sure to get one on order.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		You have not seen the television program you're going to be on this Friday, correct?
		Correct.
		Do you watch it?
		Do you want to watch it, or are you sitting on pins sitting there if you do watch it?
		I'm curious.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm always concerned as we talk about TV is the realm of the soundbite.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I mean, basically of a little bite of information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is, yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And the difficulty is that in the last Ancient Prophecies I did, I was filmed for several hours talking about things.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And I, like on this show, I do the half-empty or half-full device.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm sure you thought, God, I got a lot of really great stuff in.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And mostly because of time constraints and the theme, it was almost all the pessimistic prophecies.
		So I want to warn everybody that I think you ought to watch it, but don't be too surprised if you only hear mostly all my negative points of view about things.
		Just understand that everything I say that's negative on that show, I've also countered with a positive alternative.
		And I am lobbying very hard in Ancient Prophecies 4 and 5 that will come out next year to have them finally exhaust the negative doomsday and look at what I like to call as Bloomsday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You understand why they're doing what they're doing, of course.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		The problem with television, I mean, I understand.
		It's the nature of the beast.
		Sensationalism comes before understanding.
		But the show is doing very well.
		It's creating a lot of interest.
		It's almost becoming a mini-series when it was only supposed to be just a one-time deal.
		I'm hopeful, and I want to help them as much as I can to really fill all the dimensions of the prophetic situation, of the genre.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe they'll make, John, a slow transition, dropping a little bit in here and a little bit in there, and they will decide, oh, my goodness, this seems to sell too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you'll open them up in that way.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I mean, in a way, it's been an uphill battle even with Millennium Book of Prophecy.
		I mean, I probably got one of the most terrifying examinations of Doomsday, but I have 350 pages of alternatives.
		I don't think there are many books, if any books, out there at this moment that try so exhaustively with hundreds of prophecies to show that there is creative alternatives to the future.
		They've been there working in the prophecy business for centuries, but because of the mindset, most people are fixated on the negative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but I'm no different than they are.
		You've mentioned several times now this most terrifying version of Doomsday.
		What is it?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, simply, what I've done in the book is I've changed, I've updated the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse and changed the allegory to the Four Hell Riders of Doomsday, and I've updated it.
		Basically, what I've done is taken groups of doomsday predictions into four dimensions in this cycle.
		The Trailblazer is overpopulation.
		Basically, she's the human breeding urge run amok.
		And she's the trailblazer because almost all the problems that can lead to a third world war are based on too many mouths to feed, too many thirsts to quench.
		And she is followed by earth trauma.
		And I have very beautiful illustrations made by an artist in Australia for each one of these in full color.
		And she is, Earth Trauma is the harbinger of doomsday through ecological breakdown of Earth's climate and food chains.
		Now, the third Hell Rider is the Lemming syndrome, and that is the harbinger of plagues.
		He's basically the stress of modern living, breaking down man's immune system and his will to live.
		Now, the fourth and final Hellrider is I have him looking like a terrorist with a halo made of the nuclear symbol, and he's got a little happy face button on his shoulder.
		And basically, he is the Third World's War.
		Rather than the Third World War, he's the Third World's War.
		It is a future nuclear holocaust that may be more possible now because the Cold War has ended.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all I can say is, John, thank God none of that seems to be happening, huh?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I often say with the book when they ask, well, what do you think will happen with this book 10 years later?
		I said, I hope we're sitting here 10 years from now, and the first half of the book will read like fiction from a Stephen King novel.
		Never happened.
		John, the last half will read like, hey, that really did happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, John, all right, hold on a moment.
		We'll be right back.
		I was being as facetious as I could be.
		I know you look at it positively, but I'm afraid I see the glass about half empty.
		And most of the four you just mentioned, I would actually be as in progress.
unidentified		We'll be back to this in Premier Network.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
		Music by Ben Thede
		Music
		by Ben Thede Music by Ben
		Thede Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell somewhere in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John Hogue, the world's foremost expert on Nostradamus, is my guest and has been my guest for the last four and a half hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got about 25 more minutes to do of one of the better shows we've had in a long time, I think.
unidentified		Pewds
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 15th, 1994.
		Um...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, John, here we go.
		Hi, John.
		All the prophecies about Mount Rainier and earthquakes aside, I would like to know your spin on the UN's recent interest in the Northwest, that park they're talking about, and all the new activity.
		What is the relationship, if any?
		There's been a lot of supernatural phenomenon as well.
		Any comments?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, this is the land of Twin Peaks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure is.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And right now we're having quite a leaden sky with, as Tom Robbins, who's expatriate of the South, who lives up here, says, thousands of little water guppies battering themselves against windowpanes.
		A lot of rain up here.
		But to answer your question, well, there's a lot of UFO activity up here.
		I mean, this is the area where the term flying saucer was created.
		I often joke to my friends that it must be because of our space needle looking like a flying saucer on a stand, you know, like saying welcome, folks.
		But just kidding aside, the doorway to the Pacific Rim is going to be Seattle.
		I think it's very significant that APEC was held here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And it's definitely going to be the window.
		It's closer to Asia than any other major city on the American West Coast by the curvature of the Earth.
		So Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't anticipate it becoming even closer yet to you.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, well it's ambiguous.
		It's a little ambiguous.
		Now, maybe it's ambiguous because I live here.
		That's my prophetic bias, but my feeling is more towards the...
		if there's a seismic activity in relationship to rainier or one of the big volcanoes up here having an episode um...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		i would be more concerned if i lived in tacoma i suppose you would consider that to be uh...
		the great final honor that is to say a prophet's final moment going up in his own prophecy well uh...
		it would serve me right it would be the final honor to my prejudice and would no doubt if that were to have a band with no doubt grant the wish of a number of colors is more so i would feel like uh...
		i make a million friends of the million enemies in every show i'm sure you do on the toll-free line you're on the air with john hoag hello all about yes uh...
		that would turn my radio well that's good everybody do that soon as you get on the air where are you calling from sir andrews california all right ksro i got a few questions well go ahead okay one thing and then real clear in the program so far is why not why nostradamus well i'm not i don't know if that's in your category answer not john is it well like uh...
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		why not uh...
		and what why uh...
		upon what do you based that statement have you ready not done he had a lot of properties but what is the validity of the process what the track record well we've been documenting that all evening long uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and so on about how much of the program have you heard so all program all program well then you've no doubt heard the long chain of uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		or perhaps you didn't in the first hour i don't know but the long chain of uh...
unidentified		predictions that indeed have been accurate with great detail well this is exactly the point i want to bring up again just for the listeners uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		the other point is exactly why prophecy i want to let's look at the profit roll in society play okay well that's a little better i was gonna say your questions are very consistent uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		why prophecy uh...
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		john well two ways use prophecy either to obsess on tomorrow and kind of avoid the the ability to respond the responsibility of today or to use prophecy like you use science fiction like you use futurology or any other speculative look at tomorrow as a reflection of where you're going today that's a good answer on the first time caller line you're on the air with john hoag hi hello there yes sir you're on the air uh...
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		with one right uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		what about what lindsey williams said the other day about that diseases taking over the inner cities yes all right that that actually is a good road to go down john diseases we had lindsey williams on he was talking about a lot of diseases and uh...
		indeed aids not just aids lots of other diseases uh...
		the c_d_c_ uh...
		c_m_a_c_ making predictions of diseases we've never seen before uh...
		penicillin now uh...
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		not so effective against diseases or antibiotics yes sir yes well i have a whole that's what the whole chapter of the lemming syndrome is about it's a re-examination of the seven
		final plagues of the book of revelation and st. John the Divine's predictions backed up by other prophetic traditions of other religions and which actually are a little clearer in in some respects to what he's saying but basically looking at the seven final plagues and the argument I posed my interpretation of them is that in some degree all seven of those plagues are with us today as another symptom of the old dying and
		to pave the way for a new cycle of centuries, a new history of mankind, or humanity, as I like to call it.
		And, of course, the seven final plagues deal with the immune deficiency diseases with crowding, with stress, with pollution, and eventually get more subtle with mindset.
		You know, the false, the opiate of false prophets, that again, returning to the controversial interpretation I have, that what is anti-Christ is the rigid orthodoxy of current religions rather than a person.
		And finally...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Must want some more of those calls, huh, John?
unidentified		Yeah, well, it's the hazard of my profession.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No doubt.
		All right, here is a call.
		On the wild card line, you're on the air with John Hogue.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have to speak up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We can barely hear you.
unidentified		You were talking about near-death experiences?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, uh-huh.
unidentified		And my first one, I was told I was to have to die three times and come through the fire.
		And during that time, with all the suffering, I'd become more spiritual and progressed.
		What I try to do is put a stop to the hate that's going on, because I think that's the only thing that can stop what everybody...
		because I think everybody is trying to fulfill this prediction of the earth and everything coming to the end.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's exactly what we've been talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, uh...
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It's a great point.
		I mean, it's something I'd like to say is that there's something more terrifying to people than doomsday.
		It's the personal responsibility to counter it.
		I think that some people might find the second half of my book, which is all very detailed alternatives, somewhat on a subtle level, more frightening than the old familiar doomsday.
		I mean, we all know how it'll end if we follow the track into the ditch, you know.
		But what if we don't go into that ditch?
		Then it's very ambiguous.
		Then it's like, my God, we really have to create ourselves, create a new world.
		That millennium of peace won't happen unless we create it.
		And that's going to be a great challenge, much more challenging in a way than fighting Armageddon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But on the other hand, if you look down the strand of time, John, if you look ahead in time, there's always going to be a door off to the side that would lead to destruction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And while we might not walk through that door today or tomorrow or even in the year 2000, what are the odds that we can go down this strand of time forever without finally walking through that damn door?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, in the question I sense that there's...
unidentified		there's...
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		basically there's always death and rebirth.
		and there are cycles.
		There are golden ages and dark ages.
		And we're at pretty much the bottom now of a dark age, and we're going to start rising out of it in the next few centuries.
		According to the Indian mystic Maribaba, by 700 years from now, the whole world will be an enlightened paradise.
		It'll peak then, 700 years from now.
		And then we take for granted the enlightenment, we take for granted how beautiful it is, and then naturally start sinking into another cycle and go into the dark.
		And it seems that this is the way it is here in this certain plane of existence.
		It seems to be a classroom that goes up and down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, at the bottom of each one of those cycles you're talking about, I see one of those doors.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Oh, absolutely.
		I mean, there is a choice for extinction or to continue.
		Definitely.
		It's almost like it's a person who's kind of the Peter Pan syndrome.
		You know, the human race is like a person, it can be described as like a person who's never really wanted to grow up and now is facing the issues of adulthood and on some level reaches a crisis where they either go, I'm going to commit suicide or I'm going to grow up and deal with my problems.
		And I think on the collective level, the human race is really looking like that, Peter Pan going, well, you know, I could always be divided against myself and fight my little wars and abuse the earth, but now I've become so big on this planet that the world has become small in comparison to my bigness and my power, and now I am poised to destroy myself if I just keep going down the road I've been going.
		And we may destroy civilization.
		That is an option.
		But I think it's going to be a personal choice of each human being on the planet to say, well, do I want to say yes to change and growing, or do I want to hold on to stuff that's fossilized about my life?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		On the first-time caller line, you're on the air with John Hogue.
		Hi.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Mike from Milwaukee, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Mike.
unidentified		Yes, Jesus Christ said he was the way, the truth, and the life.
		And Muhammad, that's a narrow way.
		And you can call Jesus Christ, I don't know whatever name he was called by, but he did say that.
		Well, as Buddha, so did Muhammad, so did Krishna.
		Well, the devil is a liar, and he takes many forms.
		And broad is the road to destruction, and narrow is the way to life.
		That's what the Bible says.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but the Hindu priest, with as much sincerity as you, has said exactly the same thing about your side of your point of view.
		And Muslims have the same about the other and vice versa.
		And all this name-calling-condemning in the name of God has given us about 5,000 wars in the last 3,000 years.
		Is this something we can continue with?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So much anger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's so much anger out there, isn't it?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		because people are afraid.
		Anger is kind of an assertive expression.
		People are scared out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can't blame them for that.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		No, I can't either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, good morning from Spanaway.
unidentified		How are you today, sir?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine.
unidentified		Yes, I'd like to say accolades to you and your guest, John, for mentioning the specifics regarding population control.
		I've been in favor of that for longer than I can remember.
		And I'd like to thank you both for making that point clear and bringing it to the public eye once again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've always believed it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sounds like John has too, and it sounds like it's center in most prophecy.
unidentified		I believe that speaking of civilization, whether we can preserve it or bury it, I believe that the fulcrum here, the centerpiece, if you will, that will determine our survival will be whether or not we can bring the population under control.
		And I feel that if we can't, perhaps the damage is irreparable already.
		But on the hope that we can, I would say fine.
		But the way things are headed now, given the global population count, I do not see too much hope for the 21st century, a personal viewpoint.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I share it, but we've got an eternal optimist here, John Hoag.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you really are an eternal optimist now, aren't you?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Pretty much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hang on to it, John.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would say about the situation is I think it will get much worse before people, mainstream sense, will understand that we are on a war against our fossilized beliefs.
		This is really the third world war that I personally would like to wage.
		Not a war against people, a war against ideas, but a war against my own stupidity and the collective stupidity of man.
		That's the real enemy.
		And hopefully, the good that can come out of the curse of things getting far worse in the next few years, because they will, is that people on all levels of life won't need to listen to some fringy fellow talking about prophecy and his books or stuff like that.
		We'll just see it in their present, that this doomsday is happening and we don't have to have it happen.
		It will be really a choice over life or death.
unidentified		And it will...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good way to put it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		My name's Scott.
		I'm calling from Portland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Scott.
unidentified		I hope this question is relevant.
		It seems like it might be in the field of John's expertise.
		I was wondering if there were any similar instances of Christ's resurrection by other Messiahs in your vast reading of ancient religious texts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting question.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there are.
		And also, there are many virgin births.
		Quetzalquatl, the Messiah of the Indians, The Red Indians was also born of a virgin.
		So Jesus' particular special role in the history of gynecology is not singular, but plural.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remarkable.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Tom from Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Tom.
unidentified		Hi.
		I had a comment and a question.
		As far as the narrow way of Christianity, I think that was meant entirely spiritual and not theological.
		And I share your objection to the dogmatism of that.
		And a question I had for you, John.
		Assuming the life and death cycle of humanity is analogous to sleeping and waking, let's see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Put in a word.
unidentified		Pardon me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, I think we're asleep now.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Assuming mankind is physically extinct, what might happen to the souls that could not reincarnate?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, in a way, there's a lot of theories about this, and let's specify these theories.
		I would say, voice that one of the theories is that they may have to move to other worlds more suitable to their state of awareness or sleepiness and incarnate there.
		That's one theory that's proffered in mystical circles.
		I'm not saying I believe or disbelieve in that.
		I mean, certainly one can see a judgment day of sorts is coming, just as one could say that it's the judgment day of water that at 100 degrees it boils, or the judgment day of paper that when it gets as hot as 451 degrees, it burns.
		The six billion people on the planet enough CFCs to punch holes in the ozone, and all these things could be like that old straw that breaks the candles back, as it were.
		And somebody could sit back and say, that's Judgment Day.
		And you don't actually need a God, a personification of the divine, to say, okay, we're going to bury this right now.
		It's our own actions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Suicide, then.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It's a suicide out of fear of change or fear of growing up.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've got very little time left.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with John Holb.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Arch.
unidentified		Calling from KEX, Portland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Great guest.
		John, my question to you is, I've listened to most broadcasts, and some of your obviously outstanding in your comprehension, your expertise in the area.
		And I've read all of Nostradamus' quatrains and understand hardly any of them, but some of them are quite interesting.
		My question to you is, I'm kind of basing this on a few things you said about current politics and near political happenings.
		How much do you feel you can separate your personal emotions from your prescience?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is the issue that in my work I always try to pose to people.
		I always think it's a shame that few scholars or more scholars don't say, in my opinion, in my interpretation, I mean, I like to take responsibility for my interpretations.
		And in the beginning of the book on Millennium Book of Prophecy, I do say a note to the reader that you've got to take my interpretation and see if it resonates with you.
		And to remember that I'm just another judging, self-righteous human being trying to sleepwalk into awareness.
		And that I have something to share.
		And if it resonates with you and it works for you, good.
		If it doesn't, drop it like a bad habit.
unidentified		Very well put.
unidentified		And thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		And unfortunately, we're about out of time.
		John, a lot of what you've said this morning has resonated with me.
		I don't know that it's resonated in the way you've wanted it to, but most of what you have quoted sort of on the negative side before just then turning positive in your way, the negative side of it, of course, has resonated with me.
		And I don't see the upturn, the uptick, the pulling out of the bottom.
		To me, we're still at the bottom, or it's even going to get worse.
		And I just, I see bad signs all around me, socially, economically.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I do, too.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It's going to get worse, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Before it gets better.
		But it will turn.
		But it could get worse all the way through until 2012.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, look, we're utterly out of time.
		We could do hours and hours, but we can't.
		John, boy, what a trooper you've been.
		John, we'll do it again sometime.
		I guarantee it's been fabulous.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It's been a great show, Art.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Love to be on anytime you need.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, John.
		Take care.
		John Hope, who can be seen, I might add, this coming Friday evening.
		At 8 o'clock, we believe.
		Check your local listings.
		If the program name is Ancient Prophecies, John Hope will be featured prominently.
		That's it, I'm afraid.
		Thank you all, from the High Desert.

▲