Art Bell

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Nov. 13, 1994 - Art Bell

01:59:51

Dreamland with Art Bell - Talmud Jmmanuel - ETs and the Bible - Jim Deardorff and Linda Moulton Howe - Animal Mutiliations

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31:08

jim deardorff

54:24

linda moulton howe

10:03

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dr richard boylan

01:55

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
		This is Dreamland.
		It is Dreamland.
		It is Sunday evening.
		I'm Art Bell, and I'd like to welcome you to the program.
		It is going to be a good one.
		It is going to be a very controversial program.
		So, I want to warn you right up front, my guest is going to be Jim Deardorff.
		And he has written a book after many years of research called Celestial Teachings.
		And this book, When All Is Said and Done, I Believe, postulates that Jesus was an alien.
unidentified		Was an alien.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if that sort of idea is something that is incompatible with your listening, then you would want to tune out right now.
		Very controversial program coming up with Jim Deardorf.
		Now, very briefly, before we get to Linda Howe, and she is here from the state of Colorado this evening.
		You can never tell where Linda is going to be.
		She jets about.
		I want to warn you that we're on deadline now for the newsletter.
		Our network, my program, has put out a newsletter, beginning of the program.
		Our researcher, you never know where she is going to be.
		This evening she is in Colorado for a specific reason.
		Her name is Linda Howe, nationally renowned, probably the America's expert in the field of cattle mutilation.
		And she continues to research in that area.
		And here she is, Linda Howe, in Colorado.
		Hi, Linda.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
		I'm in Levita, west of Walsenburg, where a rancher found three of his cows dead and mutilated the week of October 24th.
		In the pasture were five partial circles about four feet in diameter not far from where the cows were found.
		And we have been in the process of gathering grass from those pastures and from these incomplete circles for analysis by Dr. Levengood in Michigan.
		And I hope to do a report on his biophysical findings in probably next month.
		And on Monday of this past week, there was a second buffalo mutilation near Kiowa, Colorado, east of Colorado Springs.
		A veterinarian did a knee cropsy and found that all but four inches of the penis tissue had been removed into the abdomen of the buffalo, just like the first buffalo in October that we reported in the week of October 19th.
		I've gotten lab results back now on that first buffalo.
		There was no evidence of bacteria or virus in any of the major organs or excision sites, meaning that buffalo was not diseased.
		And the lab report simply says cause of death unknown.
		It is interesting because this is in contradiction to the veterinarian speculation at the time that it was a sick buffalo who had died and that maybe predators had cut into the buffalo.
		We now have hard laboratory analysis and saying there was no presence of bacteria or virus, which is underscoring why it is so important for us to get to these animals fresh to do lab tests to separate out speculation and rumor from hard medical facts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Linda, are you starting to have any hope that other than proving that it was not another animal or other than proving that it was not some other human force, we can eventually get and actually find out what's behind these things?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They are really weird.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and as you know in my books and documentaries, I have been showing both in literature and in the films, at least eyewitness, firsthand eyewitness testimony that link non-human creatures to the pastures where these animals have been found, to silver discs sitting in pastures where these animals have been found, odd beams of light that people have described, seeing animals going up into the beams and coming back down.
		And even though this eyewitness testimony is still not accepted in the current Earth paradigm that we are interacting with some other intelligence in the universe, I think that we are moving slowly forward towards this kind of acceptance, this revolution that we're not alone in the universe.
		And part of what's pushing this is the fact that I and others are going out and interviewing people who are eyewitnesses.
		And out here in Kiowa, there are several residents who have seen odd moving lights this fall.
		And near the buffalo corrals, one man saw what he first thought were a line of motorcycles moving over the pastures very rapidly.
		But what seemed to be the headlights moving on the motorcycles suddenly just disappeared.
		The way eyewitnesses say that a light in the sky popped out, these were lights on the ground moving rapidly that appeared to simply pop out, leaving that eyewitness completely baffled about what he had seen.
		That issue of camouflage and deception, which may have been what's been helping keeping us blind and deaf to this phenomenon, has long been a question in the animal mutilation mystery.
		And even Sheriff Lu Girotto in Trinidad, Colorado was the first law enforcement official in 1979 to hypothesize that many of the mysterious helicopters associated with mutilations are, in fact, a camouflage technology by, and this was his quote, creatures not from this planet who disguise their activities by looking like carbon earth objects.
		That is at least the opinion of one sheriff who has been investigating mutilations in Colorado since the 1970s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, one thing's for sure, Linda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any craft that would, in essence, hover in the air or be seen to be hovering in the air, would, to us earthlings, the only explanation for such a craft, conventionally, would be a helicopter.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Right, and it also leads to one of the most interesting contacts that I have had from our dreamland audience.
		This is a man named Mike Harris from Atlanta, Georgia.
		He contacted me, and I did an interview that I think just goes right to the heart of the issue of camouflage and what kind of technology may be around this planet and what our own government may know about these kinds of camouflage techniques by whatever this off-planet technology is, and that our government may be experimenting with similar kinds of camouflage.
		And right now, I'm going to play for you a brief excerpt.
		This is an eyewitness testimony by Mike Harris, Atlanta, Georgia, two years ago.
unidentified		So I heard this helicopter.
		It was way off to one side.
		I heard another helicopter way, way, way far off to the other side.
		And then this thing flew over the house.
		It was almost clear.
		It was like it made no noise.
		I mean, I jumped up and ran outside.
		It was gone already, but I definitely saw it.
		It blocked the sky for a while as it went over.
		It was very big, at very low altitude, and it made no noise.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Now, would you pause and explain to me what you meant by it was clear?
unidentified		The closest thing I can come to it is have you seen the movie Predator?
		Have you seen how he turned on his electronic camouflage where he kind of blended in with stuff, but you can still kind of see an outline?
		But the closest I can come to describing what I saw, it was something like that.
		And the size of this?
		As big as a very large aircraft.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Meaning like a 747?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Two or three hundred feet in diameter.
unidentified		Maybe not quite that big, maybe 150 feet, something like that, because it was so low.
		It was right over the trees.
		So I'm sitting at the kitchen table right next to the door, looking out at the trees, like right over the trees, and I tell you, I got scared for a second.
		I thought it was like a shadow and something was going to crash on us or something.
		So I ran outside, looked, because I knew they were running all this low-altitude military stuff.
		The helicopter was way off to the side.
		I could hear it out.
		I never could see it.
		That was below the tree-like me.
		But this definitely went over.
		Definitely went over.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now, when you looked out the window and you said it was, you were hexphere and it was like a shadow going over, do you mean that it cast a shadow on the ground and that's why you knew there was something there even if you couldn't see it?
unidentified		It was kind of like a shadow.
		It was just like a piece of the sky got kind of dark, but you could still...
		It's like a patch of darker daylight moving.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And in that patch of darker daylight, was it all blue like the sky or was it other...
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		If it had been stationary, I don't think you would have noticed it too much.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so it was this blue was moving against the blue sky.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And what was the shape of this darker blue?
unidentified		I couldn't see the entire thing.
		I could see it.
		It was not uniform, and I didn't really see it very long, but it went from like the back of my head back over the other side of the house, and it came over.
		So I'm looking at kind of an oblique angle up through the trees at it, and when it went by, it rocked the clouds, and the clouds appeared again.
		But it was broad daylight, you know, the sun was out, and if it would have been a metallic thing, normal metallic, whatever.
		I mean, we get blimps come around for the sporting events here in town and stuff like that.
		I used to see in those the Fuji blimp with a good ear and all that.
		The shameless whale blimp.
		It wasn't that.
		Was this oval, though?
		I really couldn't testify to that.
		Okay.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		It was a block of moving blue color that was darker than the sky.
unidentified		I couldn't see the edges, the outside edges to left or right.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now when it went in front of the clouds, do you mean that the clouds literally were behind a blue object?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Yes.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And the military aerial craft that were in the sky were what again?
unidentified		There were some helicopters and some C-130s.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Did they seem to be in an offensive or defensive position in or around this border moving object?
unidentified		Helicopters were like escorts on both sides of it.
		The helicopters were definitely escorting.
		Well, they were roughly this way.
		They were parallel course, parallel speed.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Which raises an even more interesting question, Art.
		If that object may have been something maybe off-planet, why were helicopters escorting it?
		And if it wasn't off-planet, was that an example that we already are in our own atmosphere working with camouflage technologies that may or may not have to do with deflecting photons or holography?
		All issues that have come up through the abduction literature that we have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, Linda, what an absolutely fascinating report.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, the way I understood it was a large section of dark blue moving against a blue sky.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Wow.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and it implies something.
		I remember back in the literature, in UFO cases, going back into the 50s and 60s, that there were these mentions that people said that they saw a silver disc in the sky, broad daylight, and then suddenly it would pop out the way they're described at night, but at night it's a light that disappears in a dark sky.
		These were cases where a silver disc pops out and what's left is sky.
		Well, back then, I think it was considered that that was literal.
		Now, today, we're becoming more sophisticated.
		It's very possible that what this man has just described would be exactly the technology that people were describing silver discs popping out and being a blue sky.
		It could be some kind of a field that then mimics the environment around it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What I wonder, Linda, we have something called noise canceling technology that actually is fairly well developed right now.
		And you can mask a noise like an engine of a helicopter or a jet by creating a noise 180 degrees out of phase with it and literally broadcasting that noise as you go to those then on the ground.
		There would be absolutely no noise.
		One would cancel the other.
		And you've got to wonder if they've not developed some technology, wherever they got it, that does, in essence, the same thing to the visual spectrum.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And going along those lines, it was 11 years ago in 83 when I was at Kirtland and that Richard Doty was showing me a briefing paper about allegedly what some of the government insiders knew concerning some of this intelligence.
		And he said from what he gathered that we were dealing with a technology with one of these groups out there that could deflect photons.
		And if you deflect photons from any object, those photons aren't going to reach our retina or that specific retina.
		And that means that would essentially appear as it would disappear.
		If we don't have photons hitting the retina of our eyes, we don't see the chair or the table in front of us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		It may be deflection, it may be holography.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		It's also possible that there could be sophisticated holographic images that are being used exactly like chem flux.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		Linda, look, a lot of people want to contact you, so I'm not going to let a week go by.
		I want you to provide your number and your address and the reason why people should contact you.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, the phone numbers tonight that I'll give out will be for the Learning Annex.
		I've been getting several calls, people wanting me to repeat this number, where I'll be speaking in Manhattan on November 30th and then Toronto on December 1.
		The registration number in New York City is area code 212-570-6500.
		And the registration number in Toronto is area code 416-964-0011.
		And November 30th and December 1, and if any of our Dreamland listeners make either of these learning annexes, please come up and shake my hand and introduce yourself.
		And then I continue to be impressed by the very solid eyewitness account that I'm receiving in letters.
		And I would like to encourage people with subject matter and their own encounters over many of these subjects, including those who may have government knowledge from their own experiences and could share with me totally confidentially.
		And that is Linda Howe, Post Office Box 538 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, spelled H-U-N-T-I-N-G, D-U-N-DOG, O-N, Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
		The zip code is 19006.
		And once again, that's post office box 538, Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, 19006.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wonderful.
		Linda, that was a great report tonight.
		We're going to look forward to talking to you again next week, Philadelphia or elsewhere.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		That's me.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Next week, I believe I should be back in Philadelphia before I go up to New York and Toronto for the Learning Initiative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Talk to you next week, Linda.
		Thank you.
		That's Linda Howe, and she reports on, well, I don't have to tell you.
		You just heard it.
		We've got another new affiliate.
		I may have mentioned this a week ago, but I don't think they caught it, so let's do it for their benefit.
		It is KNRYAM in Monterey, California.
		Right down on Cannery Row, I guess.
		That's KNRY in Monterey, California.
		And I believe that brings our affiliates for this program to an incredible 82, 82 affiliates now for Dreamland.
		All right, coming up, Jim Deardorff and Celestial Teachings.
		And as I said a moment ago, and I want to say again right now, when we boil it all down, I believe that Jim teaches that though it may not be so, there is significant probability after all his years of research, that Jesus actually was, repeat, was an alien.
		Now, if this kind of thing specifically bothers you, if you are going to be unreasonably disturbed by it, I suggest you tune out.
		If you are interested in what the man has to say and will listen with an open mind, stay right where you are.
		Because in just one moment, Jim Deardorff.
		You're listening to the CBC Radio Network.
unidentified		CBC Radio Network
		From the Kingdom of Node, we continue with your calls on Dreamland with Art Bell.
		Call Art now, toll-free, at 1-800-618-8255, 1-800-618-TALK.
		First time callers, Area Code 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Or the Wildcard line at Area Code 702-727-1295.
		727-1295 in the 702 Area Code.
		Now again, here's Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now here again I am.
		Hello, everybody.
		I think you're going to find this Fascinating.
		Let me read from the back of his book, That Might Help, Celestial Teachings.
		Celestial Teachings explores and analyzes a document called the Talmud of Emmanuel.
		It was discovered in 1963 after being buried and encased in resin for nearly 2,000 years.
		The discoverer was assassinated and the document was burned.
		Fortunately, a significant portion of it had already been translated and put into safe hands.
		Is this the true origin of the Gospel of Matthew?
		Or is this a cruel hoax?
		James Deardorf provides the astonishing answers after six years of research.
		Now we will go, as you could, with his book, and explore it with him.
		Here is, well, wait a minute, let me put him over there and put him here, I think.
		Jim Deardorf, welcome to the program.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Ark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You come to us, I think, from up in Corvallis, Oregon, right, Jim?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's where Oregon State University is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you actually are Professor Jim Deardorf, correct?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Emeritus.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		I've been retired for about eight years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		Well, I'm curious, first of all, what in the world led you to this whole area from a traditional academic background, Jim?
		This is quite a jump.
		How did you make it?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I had been just a research professor or researcher first in the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado for 16 years, a senior scientist, and moved back to Oregon State in 1978 and continued my research there.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		But not too long after that, I became more interested in ufology and looked into the Edwards Meyer case of Switzerland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Billy Meyer.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Billy Meyer.
		And that got me interested in looking into more and more things.
		And I came across this document called the Talmud of Manual.
		It's a translation, anyhow.
		And at that time, it was still only in the German language, and we're struggling to translate it into English.
		But it purports to be the true teachings of Jesus.
		I know there's a lot of channelings around that purport to do the same thing, and they all differ from one another.
		But this one has much more of the ring of truth to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jim, how did you come upon this document?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you get it?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's part of the Meyer case literature documents.
		He has all these contact notes.
		He has some channelings, too, that were given to him.
		And this document, like it says, like you mentioned, he discovered in 1963 with the help of a priest in Jerusalem who befriended him, whom he befriended.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So maybe we better give a little bit of background on the Meyer case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you give the audience, not all of them certainly are familiar with the Billy Meyer case, an outline of how Billy Meyer got all of this or what happened to Billy Meyer?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's a contactee way back from the age of five, which takes him back into the early 40s.
		And his contactors first told him, or eventually told him they were from the Pleiades.
		And one of his contactors, a woman named Asket, took him all around the Middle East and encouraged him to partake and study all the various religions right at their roots as best he could.
		And it was in 1963 when he was doing that in the Middle East that he came across this document that's buried in this cave near Jerusalem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, what happened to Billy Meyer?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How was he contacted by people from Pleiades?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Is it?
		Yes, that occurred later for 10 years after his Middle East ventures.
		He didn't have any contacts until 1975, then his contacts began.
		And about 1977, we began to hear about it from the people who had investigated the case the most.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but the Talmud of Emmanuel came from the Middle East about 10 years prior to those Vertnal virtues.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was discovered in 1963, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so you came upon this document written mostly in German.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's written in, it's been translated from the original Aramaic, with the help of this priest who learned and understood some Aramaic, into Meyer's language, which is German or Swiss German.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then you what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You had it translated into English, Jim?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, I had to go by a crude translation that had a lot of mistakes in it that came out in 1984, I believe it was.
		And later I tried to make my own corrections to it.
		It purports to say a lot of interesting things that New Testament scholars would find astounding, but yet would, I think, find no way a hoaxer could do.
		So I've been trying to turn myself into a New Testament scholar the last ten years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess you would have to, wouldn't you?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Just about.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Just to see what their viewpoint would be and what their approach is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's hard to know where to start with this.
		As you looked at this document and then, as you mentioned, became a New Testament scholar, what did you begin to conclude about it?
		Or how did you try and decide whether you had a real document in your hands or whether you had a clever fake in your hands?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's evident right from the beginning that it's very similar in certain respects to the Gospel of Matthew.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		So similar that you know that if it isn't a hoax that was made after or from the Gospel of Matthew, then it was the original document from which the Gospel of Matthew drew as its source from which the Gospel of Matthew got formed, and then later the other Gospels.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if this was the document from which the Gospel of Matthew was written...
		I see.
		Well, if that's true, then how do you account for the apparent major differences between it and the Gospel of Matthew.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, you see, this document is totally heretical to Christianity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand that.
		That's why I'm asking, how do you account for those differences?
		In other words, if one was sourced for the other.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, the compiler of Matthew would have had to filter out everything that was unacceptable to Christianity in the early second century.
		Paul's teachings had taken hold 70 years or so later in the middle of the first century, and the early Christian church then followed that route.
		The people that might have believed in Jesus'true teachings, most of them ended up as Gnostics, enemies of the early church, and they didn't have any central authority or any organization, and their teachings just varied all over the place, and they didn't have anything written down that kept them going like the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it that it says that would surprise us or shock us, I guess, that Jesus is an alien?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what it says?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Not quite.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		There's a small correction necessary there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		His father was an alien.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		The one that mentioned it, Gabriel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, his father, what?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		His father was the alien.
		His mother is Mary, the earthling.
		That makes Jesus half alien.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Half alien, half human.
unidentified		Yes.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember a week or two ago you had an abductee on your program named Katerina?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do, yes.
		Uh-huh.
		Katerina Wilson.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Do you know that her mother is sure that Katerina's birth was an abnormal thing, that she'd had an alien father?
		Well, it's very similar to that in this case, except that the aliens in the case of Emmanuel, which we believe to be his original name, those aliens were very poor humanoid in appearance and everything.
		You could hardly might well just call them humans, too.
		Advanced.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but there's a big difference, Jim.
		Either you're human or you're not.
		You may look like a human, but if you are not of human origin, if you're not from Earth, then you're not a human, right?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, this brings into a lot of question-based uncertainties.
		We don't know if these pleians are still genetically compatible with us or not, but they could well be.
		Whereas we know the greys and other aliens like that must have to do a lot of genetic manipulation to make any hybridization like that work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hmm.
		All right.
		Well, how do we approach this subject?
		In other words, what in these teachings gives you reason to believe that they are valid versus what we find in the Bible?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, in my book, I just go through these systematically after I try to...
		Yeah, well, to get to the easiest things, perhaps the UFO-like aspect of the star Bethlehem would be one thing that you'd find pretty convincing when you read along.
		And you would understand that, well, this is just what they might call a UFO in those days when they don't have that word.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, a bright star in the sky, or seemingly a star, but, of course, moved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so traditionally, if that were seen today, it would certainly, certainly be called a UFO.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and you have to figure out some way that the wise men, the Magi, could have been informed back in their own home country to the east, wherever that was, to drop everything and start going to the west in the direction that this object in the sky led them.
		But still, they had to know that it had to do something with the birth of a marvelous child.
		So this is something a UFO and its occupants can do, talk through mental telepathy, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is certainly true.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		And that got the wise men as far as Jerusalem.
		And there they asked around of Herod if he knew where this child was, and Herod didn't know, so he convened the chief priests and scribes, and they figured out that according to the book of Micah, chapter 5 or something like that, this child should be born in Bethlehem.
		So they directed him towards Bethlehem, and about that time the object reappeared after Wahi's men got started towards Bethlehem and led them the rest of the way directly to the very birthplace, which, of course, again, no star can do.
		So it was just a minor alteration that the compiler of Matthew's Gospel did.
		He changed an unknown object in the sky that had strange powers that nobody could understand then into a more normal object and try to make it look acceptable enough so that he could retain part of the story anyhow, as much as he could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the theory is it was a UFO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was of extraterrestrial origin.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		So that is just one of many major heresies.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		You could go on to another one and say that.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we might as well lay it all out and drive everybody crazy right here at the beginning.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Emmanuel being a contact T would be another one.
		Apparently, during those 40 days and nights when he was supposedly out in the wilderness being tempted by the devil, this was right after the baptism at the Jordan.
		The thing that actually came down from the sky wasn't a spirit that resembled a dove or anything.
		It was a UFO at that occasion, too.
		And then after that happened, Emmanuel went into the UFO and it took off.
		And instead of being in the wilderness for 40 days and nights, he was away receiving contactees, instructions, and learning what his mission was and all that for 40 days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is a bit of a difference, all right.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but one thing that hasn't changed very much is that even today, you know, UFOs are called by quite a few people instruments of the devil in fundamental branches of Christianity, anyhow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there's no question about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I get people calling them that all the time.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		It was easy for the compiler of Matthew's Gospels, after he read what happened in the Temple of Emmanuel document, to make that little alteration and change it to the devil to have it be this strange object in the sky that could do these powerful things.
		Well, another, just a single sentence in the Tablet Emmanuel mentions Emmanuel having spent many years in India in his youth.
		So there you'll recall the stories you've probably heard of those lost years having been spent in India from other sources.
		And this confirms that.
		Of course, again, Holfer would say it's the other way around, so it doesn't prove anything that way.
		But if anything, that's just one brief sentence in the whole Calvin Emmanuel, which is a longer document than the Gospel of Matthew is by several chapters worth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Jim, you have a great advantage.
		You have studied these documents carefully now for six years.
		Are you convinced in your own mind they are authentic?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so I would say so, although there's a possibility that some of the alterations that crept in after Meyer first published it, and then his contact resumed, this gets back to the Meyer case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		His contact resumed in 1989, and he was told that the Talbot Emanual, as he had it, had quite a few errors in it that hadn't been carefully enough edited and everything originally, and that his contactor told him what the corrections were, and he entered all those in and got a revised vision, changed the first numbers around, stuff like that.
		But it's only about 5% changed from what it was, so we can probably ignore that here.
		But it sort of muddies up the waters, I think, a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it does, and who is to know whether he made corrections that made the document more accurate or made corrections that were themselves inaccurate?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you say it only represents about 5% of the total document at best.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and actually, my book came out before we had those corrections available in the final version, so I was just going by the earlier version.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, do the corrections that you've seen in your estimation make it more or less credible as a document?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		About 50-50.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Some do, and some could be construed as being suspicious elements.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, we're still dealing with a document, at least 95% of a document, even if you erase the changes that were made, which purports that what we believe to have been Jesus was, in fact, not all human, correct?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, half alien from aliens who faded from the Pleiades.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about motive?
		I'll tell you what.
		I'll ask you about that in just a moment.
		Jim Deardorff, stand by.
		We'll be right back to you.
		Steal teachings.
		And he maintains that Christ was actually only half human.
		The other half alien.
		Jeremy there?
		Yep.
		Okay, good.
		If you were sitting down trying to convince somebody that these teachings were correct and you just had but a few moments to kind of capsulize what you've written about this document, how would you do it?
		What would you tell them?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wouldn't try to in just a very few minutes.
		The best example I know of is a little bit complicated and takes maybe three or four or five minutes.
		Okay.
		But before we get started on that, I thought you wanted to go through all the heresies, the main, just the main...
		Okay, after Emmanuel returned from India, having studied under the great masters and gurus there, when he taught in Palestine, he naturally taught reincarnation and karma rather than resurrection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's another one.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's another big one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it sure is reincarnation and karma.
unidentified		Yeah.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		You've had, I think, aspects of that on your shows before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		So it wouldn't come as any surprise to your listeners.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but it's going to come as a surprise to many that that was actually taught in depth.
		I mean, what did he teach about it?
		Can you give us any idea?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, he taught that the human spirit starts out as a very small, tiny piece of true God, which he, in the Talbot Emmanuel, Emmanuel calls God by the name Creation, which we might change to Creator.
		And that through many, many successive lifetimes, that human spirit gradually becomes more and more knowledgeable.
		One can, of course, try to get in contact with it through meditation or listen to your conscience at the right time to interact with it, but otherwise each past life is a forgotten subject in each new life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting, Jim, the reference to the creation as opposed to the creator, that one might in effect not, I don't know if worship is the right word, but follow or speak to or try to be one with the process itself of creation as opposed to the creator, is that right?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		I think so, and because creator sort of cleans up an image of something centralized at some point, you know, you call he or she or it, but it's more of a pantheistic view, I think, Albert Emanuel has.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		That God is everything, everywhere, and that's the spiritual aspect of everything, intelligence behind the creation of everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		So what else about reincarnation?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		I don't believe he taught any transmigration of the soul to animals after death, but just to other humans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just to other humans.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		So that differs from a Hindu view that you might have come across.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did it speak to?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did he speak to with regard to the nature of the soul again?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, nothing particularly definite except that it evolves through successive lifetimes and eventually, zillions of lifetimes later, apparently will merge back again with the creation.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		And thereby the creation is always receiving new input from evolved souls all over the universe, which it then evolved too, because it's continually receiving more and more knowledge and wisdom from all these evolved souls that merge with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, that is as much heresy as we can fit into this hour, Jim.
		Oh.
		So relax for a few moments.
		We'll do some news here at the top of the hour and come back.
		Well, I told you this was going to be a bit controversial.
		This should be an interesting program.
		Professor Jim Deardorff is my guest.
		And we'll get back with him in just a moment.
unidentified		I switch me marry.
unidentified		Huh?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Demand better.
unidentified		Visit your neighborhood Oldsmobile retailer today.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		It was listed in the Gospel of Matthew that Jesus had.
		And then they traveled around quite a lot.
		Emmanuel gradually eating more and more.
		The farther, I guess, they got away from the Palestinian area, the more confident he could be that his identity wouldn't be found out.
		Traveling through Anatolia, which is the area of Turkey nowadays, and then back eventually towards India and Kashmir.
		So going across on the Silk Road, they call it, travel during those days.
		Takes about two years just to go one way from there to India.
		So then he lived out a very long life there in India.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And lived out his life.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you, Jim, this.
		How large is this document, the Talmud of Emmanuel?
		How large is it?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		It's about four or five chapters longer than the Gospel of Matthew.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't take into account any of the teachings he made in India and Kashmir and all over there.
		So that was a part that was lost.
		They just start out translating the first part and got as much of it done as they can.
		And suddenly this priest who was doing the translations after Meyer had left back for Switzerland and was mailing him sections of translations every so often, this priest was caught up, found out, had to flee for his life, and eventually assassinated in 1976.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here's a question from somebody who sent in a fax, Jim.
		How does this document impact on the book of Revelation?
		Specifically, what does it suggest Revelation refers to?
		Can we expect a return of Jesus?
		If so, when?
		How would this occur, and what conditions will accompany his return?
		What is the purpose for his return?
		Full of questions.
		Signed Brad.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Okay, it doesn't really impact the book of Revelations at all.
		The book of Revelations is apparently the dream work of the writer of the Gospel of John, at least some scholars think so.
		And it's just not related to anything that Talmud Emmanuel has to say.
		It's the Gospel of Matthew is much more closely related, and some of the parts of chapter 24 in Matthew that speak of the second coming are in the Talmud Emmanuel.
		So it says he will be alive, that would be reincarnated in some human at the time of his second return.
		And that would be with this, what is it, blaze of light or something in the sky, which you can imagine UFOs, perhaps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
		Could be.
		Is there a prediction in this document of when that might occur?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Nothing exactly, but the time period of two millennia is mentioned in the future.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		So it's obviously our time, and of course, skeptics can have quite a lot of fun with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have seen a number of documents.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Most interestingly, are you familiar with something called the Pope's predictions?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		No, unless they came from the Fatima incident.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, not specifically.
		It says in them that there will be visitors coming our way.
		These are supposedly predictions made by the Pope.
		In the year 1995, and that there will be many visitors, some of whom will seem strange to us, but will revive the earth.
		In other words, ecologically and so forth and so on, from what they call a burn, or is called in the Pope's predictions, a burned cinder.
		So somewhere between now and the year 2000, would that be your best guess?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, roughly in then, but it's too indefinite.
		It could be another 10 years after that, for all I know.
		But according to the Talmud Emmanuel, they're not going to come to revive the earth or anything.
		They're going to come to, well, I don't know what they're going to do, to try to deal with what's left after various catastrophes.
		The idea of catastrophism is in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The earth changes, the burning surfaces.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		The changes, floods, and all that.
		And perhaps even a man-made war that probably would have a nuclear weapon involved.
		There's that hint of that in there.
		Without, of course, the word nuclear or anything being there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I have to say obviously all of this then um I guess puts you uh right in line with uh listening to and studying what a lot of abductees have to say.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Sure, so I've been trying to keep up on that, of course, over the years, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hope this program has helped you in that regard.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, although I wish we could get a station closer to Cortellis, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jim, are you convinced, you are pretty well convinced that this document is accurate?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm wondering how this has affected, if it has affected, your personal faith, whatever it was.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe this would be the appropriate part to try to set forth an example of why I think this isn't anything that could be a hoax by looking at a particular verse and comparing it with the Gospel of Matthew.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would be, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go right ahead.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Okay, it's the minor things, I think, that point to me the most likelihood that it's not a hoax.
		Anyone could read up on major things and try to write a nice, flowing, coherent story that follows the Gospel of Matthew in its main outline and has all these heresies in it.
		Although I wouldn't be able to do so myself because it all flows too interestingly and smoothly.
		But looking at some minor points, there's one spot in Gospel of Matthew, chapter 13, verse 53, where it speaks about Jesus having come into his own country and taught in their synagogue, but there he was rejected.
		You remember the rejection story?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, uh-huh.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		And then the prophet without a country, without honor in his own country.
		Well, it's always been a little bit strange to some scholars.
		Well, I just mentioned that he went to his own country and taught.
		In the Talbot Emmanuel, it says he went to Nazareth and taught.
		And this is what every scholar has inferred must have been meant there because they know that's where he is said to have grown up, his own hometown.
		So just a few verses past there, there's another spot beginning in chapter 14 in Matthew where it mentions that at that time Herod the Tetrarch heard about the fame of Jesus and then proceed on with the story of the beheading of John the Baptist.
		Well, in the time of Emmanuel, it's a little bit different, saying that at the time that Emmanuel dwelled in Nazareth, this is when that happened, the time he visited Nazareth.
		And by leaving that one word Nazareth out there in the Gospel of Matthew, it's always been a puzzle to Gospel scholars whether this whole episode is a flashback or not.
		Because it says it occurred at that time, but there wouldn't have been time for this to have occurred if you go over the chronology of the story and the way it's situated there.
		And in retrospect now, with the Talmud Emanuel explanation here, we can see that there's surmise that the word Nazareth was taken out by the man, the scribe who compiled the Gospel of Matthew, because that was to punish Nazareth for not having believed in Jesus' works there that he did.
		Not having the faith and not permitting him to show his mighty works there.
		And so this is quite, it was quite a serious thing to the early church to have an instance when Jesus couldn't perform his healings and miracles.
		And so to punish Nazareth for doing that to him, when he came to his father's story, he just left out the word Nazareth.
		He just replaced it in one instance saying it was in his own country.
		So this is a very minor thing.
		Most scholars haven't even known about it.
		When it was first noted, as far as I can tell, it was by a scholar in 1989, long after the Talmud Emanuel had come out.
		And so it's nothing that a hoaxer could have thought up by himself unless he was really a clever, original scholar himself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are there, Jim, a lot of examples like that?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I picked out about 35 that I put in that category.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's quite a few.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		And I found about another 170 that I thought are all in the favor of the Talmud Emmanuel being genuine rather than the Gospel of Matthew.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, when you did your research, Jim, were you, you know, there are various ways of setting out to prove something one way or the other, and I'm wondering whether you were sort of trying to prove that the Talmud of Emmanuel was authentic and picked out each example that would give credence to that argument,
art bell ▲ ● ▼		or were you objective rather, as you did at picking out things on both sides and, in fact, compiling a positive-negative list?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		No, I was mostly on the positive side because you have to be fully interested in it and pretty well convinced in advance that it couldn't be a hoax before you'd want to retire early from a successful career and then spend years looking into this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That certainly would be true, yes.
		Yes, absolutely.
		Devoting the rest of your life to it, in effect.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		That's the way it worked, although I keep trying to look at the other side of the argument as I go along here, and it just indicates over and over scholars have taken the wrong route, especially where it ever, in any case where there was something embarrassing for the early church, they picked a solution that was as least unsatisfactory as possible that they could get.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I absolutely do not put it beyond mankind to have done this.
		History is full of examples of mankind doing this sort of thing, and so it could easily be.
		Jim, I would like to begin to take some calls from the audience and questions.
		And so let us do that in just one moment.
		Professor Emeritus Jim Dairdorf, who has been studying and would be glad to talk to you about a document called The Talmud of Emmanuel.
		And we'll be back with him in just a moment.
		We've got the phone numbers.
		That'd be a good idea, huh?
		If you are a first-time caller to the program, the number is Area Code 702-727-1222.
		702-7272.
unidentified		This is a pre-recorded, previously broadcast report.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The wildcard direct dial lines are Area Code 702-727-1295.
		702-727-1295.
		And toll-free, wherever you are, it's 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		Jim, are you there?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's go to the lines and see what awaits.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		I was wondering, since you're giving out telephone numbers, should I give out one for celestial teaching?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We absolutely will get to it, Jim.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So stand by.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On our toll-free line, you're on the air with Jim Deardorff.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, this is Emily Colling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Emily.
unidentified		I've been listening to some of the comments made by Jim Deardorff.
		Yes, uh-huh.
		I need to mention or preface that I am a parapsychologist, a ufologist, and a contactee.
		And I do need to say that his research, in my estimation, is not foreign to me.
		I really accept the fact that Jesus is an alien.
		In fact, I would go so far as to say that Mother Mary may have been an abductee who may have been implanted with a listen, even abductees have to turn their radios off when they get on the air.
		Okay, hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, thank you.
		Everybody, you need to do that when you get on the air.
		Turn your radio all the way off, or you will find it confusing, and you will, in fact, sound confused.
		So hopefully this lady has done it.
unidentified		I'm sorry.
unidentified		Yes, so that is not foreign to me, although he probably will get a lot of challenges from the religious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very angry calls, I would expect it.
unidentified		But I do support his research, and I do believe in whatever findings he seems to be coming up with right now.
unidentified		And thank you for allowing me to come through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for coming through.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Emily.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there you go, Jim.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Support.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so I think it's an appropriate idea that Mary must have been an obductee of some sort.
		And even Joseph must have been contacted by the extraterrestrial who was involved here because of the passages in Matthew which say he was contacted in a dream by an angel.
		Well, you can see how easily a real event there would have been altered into a dream to make it sanctionable for the early church.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jim, let me ask you this.
		I spoke earlier and didn't follow up on motivation or what their intentions are.
		What have you been able to deduce with regard to their intentions toward us?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, in terms of planning Emmanuel's life and his mission, it seems to have been the idea that earthlings at that time were beginning to be far enough along that we should have some of the right ideas given to us,
		preferably from one of our own, so that we can bandy them about in our brains and discuss them as well as all the false ideas that lead to false religions that were around at the same time, too.
		They don't seem to want to force their views upon us.
		Maybe that's impossible anyhow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what are we to them?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		We seem to be related to them.
		That's why they're genetically, so to say, so much the same.
		And in Edward Myers' contact notes, there's long stories of the history of Earth that involved the pleadians earlier, where the pleadians are said to have not acted too honorably in various instances many thousands of years in the past.
		And they therefore feel some obligation back a couple thousand years ago as well as now to see if there's certain little things they could do to implant the right ideas in people's heads so that we can at least discuss them and try to push good ideas along with the bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So these, let me pick up on that.
		These aliens are not necessarily that honorable?
		Is that correct?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		In the past, right.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		As you probably know, many of them stayed here for long-term visits back many, many thousands of years ago and became known as gods and goddesses, you know, and started these mythologies all over the earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And again, you would think the subjects of those myths, insofar as there may be some truth based in them, were aliens?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		You maybe read some of Zachariah Sikkim's work on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		And it would seem that those aliens that allowed themselves to become worshipped as gods and goddesses, maybe some of them couldn't prevent it, but others had known better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, in effect, took advantage of the poor savage human being and allowed us to worship, knowingly building that myth.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and at times helping to get religions going that soon went very far astray.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gee, what scoundrels?
		All right, Professor, hold on just a moment.
		We'll be right back to you.
		Professor Emeritus Jim Deardorff is my guest.
		And I'm sure this is going to be a fun remainder to the program.
		You should really enjoy this.
		I know I'm going to.
		You're listening to Dreamland coming to you on a Sunday evening.
		This is a program that examines alternative theories.
		We're squarely into one this evening.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		From the Kingdom of Nye.
		This is a pre-recorded previously broadcast.
		Call Art Now toll-free at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-TALK.
		First time callers, Area Code 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Or the wildcard line at Area Code 702-727-1295.
		727-1295.
		In the 702 area code.
		Now again, here's Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now again, here I am.
		Good evening, everybody.
		Jim Deardorff, Professor Emeritus, is our guest.
		He, for six years in retirement, has been researching these documents called the Talmud of Emmanuel, and it maintains quite a bit of heresy, actually.
		It's entitled Celestial Teachings, and we will tell you how to get it in just a moment.
		Let's continue with calls.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Jim Deardorff.
		Hi.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		This is the anarchist here in San Diego?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		May I ask your guest, does he believe that what he calls human beings can be born without a soul?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't, although it's uncertain to me what time of gestation, at what time in gestation the soul or spirit typically enters the baby's body.
		Whether it's a few weeks after birth, which is what Edward Meyer was told, or whether it could be as late as birth.
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A few weeks after birth.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		No, a few weeks after conception.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, after conception.
		Yes.
		All right.
		Or as the baby is actually born into the world.
		Of course, it is a very important question, Jim, because of the modern controversy with regard to abortion.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you're a little unclear from this work when that occurs.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, we wouldn't be able to trust anything we heard anyhow, and unless we could check it out for ourselves, then we have no device that will test for the presence or absence of the Holy Spirit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We certainly have no such device.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Maybe a psychic could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorf.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Good evening, Art.
		Good evening, Professor.
		Good evening.
		I find some of your explanations for Christ interesting.
		it would as a matter of fact explain immaculate conception resurrection and most of the miracles that he performed in front of people and um...
		i was wondering if you had any um...
		ideas on on Yes, although traveling around quite a lot.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		So northern India, Kashmir, and perhaps other places a little farther away.
unidentified		Do you think that would lead into Hinduism and other religions in the area?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, Hinduism, of course, had been going on for many, many centuries earlier.
unidentified		Oh.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		But it might have reinforced it, you know, a little bit because he would have been teaching rather similar things.
unidentified		Are there any records of any travels in North America or speculation on that?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		I haven't looked into that.
		There is a book on that I know.
		I don't remember its title.
		Just from the Table of Emanuel, what Meyer had to say after he was told by this priest who had evidently skimmed through this whole document before it was destroyed and told Meyer the gist of his having gone on to India and all that that didn't ever get translated.
		There is no hint that he went on to America, which might have had to be done by a UFO, I guess.
unidentified		Well, thank you very much, Professor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you very much for the call.
		And here is a faxed-in question from Oklahoma City.
		Art, please ask your guest how he equates this in respect to the other Gospels, which also say that Jesus was God's Son, and in respect to other writers of the time that are not in the Bible, such as Flavius Josephus.
		This is a pretty important question.
		It might help a lot of people decide whether they believe him or not.
		Cameron in Oklahoma City.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, the crux of the question seems to evolve about the phrase God's Son.
		And you could understand how the people at that time, if he were to tell them he was the son of Gabriel, a celestial angel, wouldn't know quite what to think.
		And that could have been equated to God's Son right then and there.
		So the idea that he was God's son, it wouldn't be too surprising if that came about for that reason, but I think Paul was the one who got it going.
		And Paul indeed might have had the idea from the previous writings that had been around in the Hellenistic literature, like Cameron suggested.
		So to Paul, it wouldn't have been a totally new idea to say that Jesus was God's Son.
		I believe he's the first one to have come up with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		This is from Sylvia in Vancouver.
		To you, Jim.
		do you have any information which would add to or refute the information from Annie Kirkwood, my program of 1023-94, about the devastating earthquakes in 1995 through the year 2000, the volcanic eruptions and the Earth polar shift, which is supposed to occur then?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		No, the telemanual does suggest that severe earth changes will happen, but how severe is left unclear, and when is certainly left unclear in terms of any precise time.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		So, no, I wouldn't be able to help you on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and from finally, from Lawson in San Clemente, Professor, Lawson would like to know if anybody in the religious community has spoken out in support of your work or has studied your work or has even commented on your work, one way or the other?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Not in the mainstream reputable scholars community.
		You can't get them to talk about it.
		It's one of those taboo topics.
		Almost every one of these heresies is a taboo topic that can't be written about in the New Testament literature, even the scholars' literature, as radicals.
		Some of them seem to be the mainstream Christians.
		And so if you were to interest someone in this who is a scholar, he wouldn't be able to talk about it to his colleagues because they would call him crazy or up the wall or off the wall or something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, at least.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Jim Deardorff.
		Good evening.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, turn your radio off, please.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn it off.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, where are you calling from?
unidentified		I'm calling Ark Bell.
unidentified		Is it okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, where are you calling from?
unidentified		Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what is your question?
unidentified		I have five points.
		Joseph is Aramaic and Glastonbury, and karma is in conflict with the teachings of Christ.
		And I can say why dead seas grows, and the life score sees the green physical.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I've caught at least three of those, five.
		The Calvin Emanuel indicates that Joseph of Aramasia was the key figure in recognizing that he wasn't dead at the crucifixion and therefore getting permission to take him off the cross and take him to his own tomb and then rushing to get some help from actually a couple of fellow friends he knew from India that were in that Jerusalem area.
		They were the most skilled, being Hindus, in the use of herbs and salads.
		And so Joseph of Arimathea entered in there, but we don't hear anything more about him after the entombment period.
		And so if he went on to Glastonbury or wherever, the Talmud of Emmanuel has nothing to say about that.
		As to karma, there's quite a few teachings in the Gospel of Matthew that look like Emmanuel had taught karma, and it's certainly in the Talmud of Emmanuel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For those who don't know Jim, how would you default?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Karma is the Hindu concept that goes along with reincarnation that it usually does.
		That if you do a lot of bad acts through ignorance in this life and don't realize your mistakes and errors and don't repent, then in some future life you'll have some harsh learning experiences where you may be subject to similar treatment that you unfairly dealt to others until you finally do learn your lesson and your conscience gets strong enough to be able to tell you in future wise not to do anything like that
		again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Karma has always seemed so unfair to me, Jim.
		In other words, without conscious, underlying the word conscious recollection, of any previous life, to in effect have to pay for what those have done previously seems grossly unfair.
		I suppose cosmically somehow it may be fair, but it seems very unfair.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it does.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		And finally, nowadays, if one's interested, one can undergo past life regression and look into some of your past lives and start studying this and unlock those doors that have been locked for all those lifetimes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Jim Deardorff.
		Good evening.
		Hello.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Enjoy your show very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		And Professor Deardorf, I'm enjoying your presentation very much.
unidentified		And my question is, is there anything in the Talmud of Emmanuel that speaks to the Gnostic belief that the agency in the Old Testament wasn't the true God, that he was the demiurge?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, not really in terms of demiurge, which doesn't get mentioned in the Talmud of Emmanuel.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		But it suggests that most of the times in the Old Testament where a voice is speaking to some prophet or God or an angel appears in a burning bush, that sort of thing, that this was an extraterritorial UFO event going on, like the wheel being by Ezekiel, and the experiences in that book of the Old Testament.
unidentified		Does it give us any guidelines as to knowing which things are on which sides?
unidentified		Because Jesus talked about the Father, and obviously Jesus believed that was a good agency, and yet there was this demiurge side of things that was an adversary towards mankind.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		The Talmud Emmanuel would indicate that the Father concept was a concept fed in by the scribe who compiled the Gospel of Matthew to replace the creation idea that was in the Talmud Emmanuel with something more familiar to the scribe.
		So even that is, of course, heretical and quite different from the two documents.
		It would indicate that maybe 85% of what Jesus purports to say in the Gospels weren't his true sayings at all, because they were so often heretical one way or another, they had to be altered.
		That's why the scholarly group called the Jesus Seminar.
		They've come up with a similar conclusion, but they would disagree on which verses are true and which are false relative to the Talmud of Manhattan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I I think that perhaps bothers me more than anything you've said professor because I I tend to believe it.
		In other words, what doesn't fit into mankind's image or what mankind is not comfortable with, mankind tends to change to fit nicely into the little box that makes him comfortable.
		And so I'm terribly afraid that some early scholars may have done exactly that.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		That's why we have this contradiction even in the New Testament.
		Some places it's mentioning God being a spirit, like in the Gospel of John.
		Other places, like in Matthew, God is pictured as a male, you know, on a throne and being a sort of a human and not a spirit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, more of an image that we would tend to be comfortable with.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Or an extraterritorial type image.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorf.
		Good evening.
unidentified		Good evening.
unidentified		This is Heather from Portland, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Heather.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to have to speak up good and loud for us.
unidentified		Okay.
		The question I have for Professor Deardorf is, I read the Talmud of Jujamel called Emmanuel, I guess is how you're pronouncing it.
		I pronounced it Jujamel at the time.
		There was a lot of very anti-Jewish kind of undercurrent, very virulent, I thought, message in that particular book.
		Would he have a comment about that?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty disturbing.
		It makes you realize that you don't have to believe anything in there being true, even if you think the Talbot Emmanuel is genuine.
		You don't have to accept any teachings in there that you don't think are right.
		And there are several possible explanations for this.
		One is that Emmanuel was born in that country and presumably had had past lives as a Jew.
		And this is the sort of thing he'd seen going on all this time.
		Terrible, terrible, what do we call it?
		Bad things done from some Jews upon other Jews and so on.
		And he would be totally upset about this.
		That makes you wonder if he had been born in a totally different nationality, if he wouldn't have spoken out vehemently about that other country's rulers and countrymen.
		But another aspect seems to be that in the Talmud Emmanuel, he does not condone ignorance.
		He thinks the people of Israel themselves, for having accepted false teachings by the Pharisees and scribes, are in store for a lot of bad karma.
		And this is something that they'll just have to face up to.
		And so this is sort of a prophecy sort of thing that some of this bad language against the Israelites seems to amount to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Professor, on the first time caller line, you're on the air with Jim Deardorff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening.
unidentified		Yeah, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Joe from Albuquerque.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Joe.
unidentified		Good show you got tonight.
unidentified		And I'd just like to ask your guest one question, and that is if he is familiar with the book Holy Blood, Holy Grail.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I've read that.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		I have that book.
unidentified		And what is your response to that?
unidentified		And I'll hang up and listen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jim.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't connect with the Talmud of Manual hardly in any way.
		It has a lot of interesting stuff about what happened in many centuries after the start of the Christian era and in like 1000 AD and so on and there.
		But it just doesn't connect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does not relate.
		All right.
		On the Toll-Free line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorf.
		Good evening.
		Hello there.
		No, you're not.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Jim Deardorf.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, good evening, Arthur.
unidentified		This is Jim in St. Louis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Jim.
unidentified		Professor Deardorf, thanks for doing the show.
		A most interesting discussion.
		My question for you was, I'd like for you to tell me what you know about the First Council of Nicia and the editing process that the Bible went through, specifically regarding the Talmud's teachings of reincarnation and reincarnation.
		And what is your opinion as to the reasons that these men might have chosen to cut certain things out of the Bible, whereas just take it at face value?
		Take it for what it originally was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's an interesting question.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Let's see.
		When was it?
		I think it's actually the Second Council of Trent or something rather late, in 400 or 500 A.D., that reincarnation was declared an anathema by the Church.
		I think maybe the First Council of Nicaea was earlier, maybe talking about the Aryan controversy or something.
		Anyhow, it was booted out at that time, indicating that there had been a resurgence of the idea of reincarnation amongst certain branches of Christians, and evidently some of these have been followers of the well-known early Christian called Origin.
		Why they felt so antagonistic against it is that you just can't have reincarnation be a truth and resurrection both.
		The resurrection concept has your soul sort of being born with you at birth and it survives death but then becomes later resurrected, not to have any future lives, which is quite different from reincarnation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, Jim, with the installation of the one lie, you then literally had to sit down and modify almost everything else or anything else that was in direct conflict, and there would have been a very great deal in that category.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Correct?
		Well, every time reincarnation occurred in the Gnostic documents and so on, very little of those Gnostic documents ever survived.
		Some of them were found later, you know, in Upper Egypt in 1940.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Professor, hold it right there.
		Professor Emeritus, Jim Deardorff, his book, Celestial Teachings.
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unidentified		Dreamland right.
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		This is a pre-recorded, previously broadcast program.
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		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure is.
		And this is Dreamland.
		Good evening.
		My guest is Professor Emeritus Jim Deardorf.
		He's here talking about his research and his book, Celestial Teachings.
		And we'll get back to the professor in just a moment.
		All right, back now to Professor Deardorf.
		Professor, are you there?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
		All right.
		Here's a couple of questions by facts.
		Dear Art, this is really fascinating information, but I'm a little confused about something.
		Is Emmanuel another name for Jesus?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
		It indicates that Emmanuel was his true given name at birth, and you'll find the name Emmanuel, spelled with a capital I or E, in the Gospel of Matthew, in the birth story there, but as a fulfillment of the prophecy of Emmanuel being born of a maiden or a virgin, that's in Isaiah.
		And you'll find other verses right before it and afterwards that emphasizes pretty strongly, no, his name is Jesus.
		And it makes you wonder why the writer of Matthew's Gospel wanted to claim that this was a verification of the Messiah prophecy if the name prophesied was Emmanuel.
		If his name hadn't been Emmanuel, he hardly would have stumbled upon that as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the answer is yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it purported to have actually been penned by Christ?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		The Temple of Emmanuel itself?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, that's another long story.
		One of his disciples penned it, most of it in India, apparently.
		And only later after Emmanuel's death did his eldest son carry back the long story that several scrolls worth, apparently a copy along with it, back to Palestine.
		The copies, one copy was probably distributed around and helped get Gnosticism going, which flourished in the second century.
		And the other copy was the one that was encased in ros and then hidden in the original tomb site.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With regard to that one, Professor, was the original Talmud ever carbon dated before it was destroyed?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, not at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was destroyed when?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Apparently in 1974.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so no carbon dating then.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Right, and no photographs of it either, and so, you know, this is nothing a scholar could touch, just the claim of an alleged historical Aramaic document.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and then finally, I've read much of Jesus' travels to India during the missing years, but have never heard about his travels after the crucifixion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has Professor Deardorff seen any other documentation on this period?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, actually, that's what I've been looking into most the last three or four years.
		There's some 15 or so independent little bits of evidence indicating he had been traveling around that area from Iran, Iraq, eastward, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Kashmir.
		Most of it's in Kashmir, where his tomb is claimed to be.
		It's called the tomb of Yuz Asaf, and that's another name given to him.
		He would have had to travel under different identities, or he'd become known by different names.
		And the legend is very strong that this man was the same as Emmanuel or Jesus, partly because of the imprints of scars on his hands and feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Professor Ed in Port Orchard, Washington would like to know how to get hold of you.
		Is there a place people can either write or call to talk to you?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I could give you my phone number afterwards or my email address.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why don't you give your email address for starters, Professor?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is that?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Okay, it's D-E-A-R-D-O-R-J.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do that again, please.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		D is in dog.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		D-E-A-R-D-O-R-J.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		And then the little at symbol at U-C-S dot O-R-S-T dot E-D-U.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's D-E-A-R-D-O-R-J at UCS.orst.edu.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that is your internet internet address.
		Okay.
		Well, that that will help some.
		I would not advise you to give you give out a telephone number on the air.
		You would live to regret that one, Professor.
		But maybe is there an address where people could write?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't have a P.O. box, so it would be my home address, but maybe I shouldn't do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, maybe you shouldn't do that as right.
		Okay, on the wildcard line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorf.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, this is Sananda from KPI Country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've been Washington, yes.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		And I wanted to answer some questions that were asked about this Talmud of Emmanuel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		First of all, yes, it is legitimate, and that this event that everyone's waiting for to occur in 1995 has to do with a photon belt.
unidentified		I don't know if you have heard about that.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
unidentified		Excuse me?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		I have heard of it.
unidentified		You have heard of it.
		And that this knowledge that is coming to humanity is something that has been planned to occur for a long time.
		And the opposition, or this knowledge suppressor, which people call the Antichrist, indeed wouldn't want to have any of this information coming across because it does go against what traditional religion has held to be true.
		Jesus was a name given to Emmanuel after his death by Saul of Tarsus.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I agree there.
unidentified		That became known as Paul.
unidentified		And that the religion, Christianity, basically right now, is the product of Paul rather than the product of Emmanuel.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's exactly what the Talmud of Emmanuel would lead you to believe.
		That Paul started Christianity and the true teachings had to be suppressed as Gnosticism and they all soon got led astray and turned into a lot of extra gibberish added on.
		But you asked about the legitimacy of the Talmud Emmanuel and all I can say is everyone has to explore that for themselves.
		You're just certainly not going to take any one person's word for it.
		I find it legitimate, but that's only because I've studied it carefully after finding the Meyer UFO contactee case legitimate too and studying that from 1980 on.
		You probably wouldn't find the Talmud Emmanuel legitimate if you hadn't looked into the Meyer case earlier, so there's a lot of research that one would have to do there.
unidentified		Well, the civilization that we have here does have its origin, its genetic origin from the Pleiades.
		And humanity hasn't been told that yet either.
		So that's going to be real interesting when here in 1995 this information starts to come out and the ancient records that have to do with papyri and scrolls are brought so that there's proof that what's being claimed now has documented validity to it.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, it'll be interesting to see if anything like that does happen in 1995.
		I've seen an awful lot of predictions of things like that, earthquakes that didn't come true.
		But the idea of the earliest earthlings coming from the Pleiades is in the midst of quite a few different Indian tribes in the U.S., like the Cherokees and forgotten forefathers.
unidentified		The Omayans.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And as to the photon belt, oh, that was predicted, as I recall, I think a year and a half ago that was supposed to show up and it didn't show up.
		And now I think in another book it's predicted to occur within the next, you know, sometime between now and 1995.
		And if anything happens there, I don't know.
		It doesn't make too much sense to me.
unidentified		I think the thing that's going to be most rejected by religions is going to be that Jesus, the man who is called Jesus Christ, whose actual name is Emmanuel, when they attempted to crucify him, that he went into a coma rather than into death.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		That's what Emmanuel says, yeah.
unidentified		Yes.
		And that going into that coma state, and them with the technology they had during that time, didn't understand the difference between a state of comatose and a state of death.
		And when he was taken down off of the cross in the state of coma that they believed was death, that totally invalidates what's being taught by traditional Christianity now.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm pretty well convinced of that.
		But let me add that if you look a little bit more into the idea that he did go to India in his youth and learned all about meditation, he could have very well learned about the deepest state of meditation called samadhi, which is sort of like an out-of-body experience, a very extended one.
		So he probably was sort of out-of-body when he was in that comatose state.
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you, caller.
		Professor, I must say that I'm pleasantly surprised.
		I thought by this time this evening, you would be the one being crucified, and it has not at all worked out that way.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, you just have such nice callers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a fact.
		We do.
		On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorf.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi.
		I'm calling from Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seattle, yes.
unidentified		I was wondering, maybe it covers a little bit why this occurred just this one time so long ago, and is the second coming that some people think is going to occur going to be another kind of alien human mutation, and what the reason behind these two, if there is going to be a second one, these two things happening is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would, I sort of went over the first part of your question earlier, that mankind was about ready to get the two teachings, so they were tossed out to us through one of our own who was educated himself and went to India to learn those parts of the truth there that he could and got the rest of it from the Pleians as a contactee before starting his ministry.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		And as to the second coming, I don't know anything more about that than basically what the Gospel of Matthew says in chapter 24, although that has some editorial alterations in it from the Talmud of Emmanuel, that there will be the second coming, but what'll happen then is quite unclear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the toll-free line, you are on the air with Professor Deardorf.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello, hi.
		My name is Carolyn.
		I'm college from Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, I want to say here, I just turned my area down, okay?
		I want to say the people that have been abducted by U.S. Holes, are they any kind of related to Christ?
		I want to ask who is the Antichrist?
		And will it be a rapture or anything like that?
		And what kind of people will be raptured up and what personality of these people?
		Do you ever read about that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, where does the rapture fit into all of this, Professor, or does it not?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		From the Talmud Emmanuel, I wouldn't know that it does fit in.
		The part in the Gospel of Matthew says one will be taken and one will be left behind in various circumstances.
		That has no counterpart in the Talmud of Emmanuel.
		It seems to be the idea of the scribe who wrote the Gospel of Matthew.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		And whether some will be taken up, the Talmud of Emmanuel leaves that open.
		Perhaps something like that might happen.
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about abductees, Professor?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where do they fit into this picture?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's totally unclear, too.
		There's nothing in the Talbot of the Manual that would prepare you for the abduction phenomenon.
		So whether they're the idea that they're hybridizing us so as to have offspring related to themselves that their own spirits can inhabit that would be able to live on Earth after catastrophes, that would perhaps fit in closest to anything because these catastrophes to Earth are predicted, and it's predicted that a large segment of Earth's population actually will die in them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so the theory, then, would be that they are modifying us genetically in order that there be some survival or continuation of the species.
unidentified		Is this a pre-recorded pre-scale?
		This is Sham Carr from the Prince.
		Are you related at all?
		This individual purport to be Christ living in Britain is supposed to appear everyone's TV set at the same time.
		Or are you related to, you know, or are a follower of L. Ron Hubbard and Dianetics?
		Because I think this smacks of Dianetics somehow.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		I'm, of course, not related to any of these people.
		I've vaguely heard of Benjamin Crabb.
		Did you mention Maitreya?
unidentified		Lord Maritrea.
		I think it's Maritreya.
		I might be pronouncing it incorrectly.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		I was thinking of the Buddhist Bodhisattva, Maitreya, who's supposed to have his second coming, and there's some connections there, perhaps, that get back to Jesus in India.
unidentified		Are you familiar with L. Ron Hubbard and the Dianetic theory that he?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		I looked into it a little bit.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		I do think he had a few little things that he was correct on, reincarnation being one of them, but I wouldn't go along with much of the rest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So no direct connection there, anyway?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		No.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorf.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, sir.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Good evening.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		You mentioned that you have translated some of the book of Matthew, but not all.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		My specific question is on Matthew 13 and some of the parables of Jesus Christ, specifically Matthew 13, 37, where the parable of the good seed and the Son of Man is explained in private to the disciples.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		And in the Talbot of Emmanuel, that parable is in there, the sowing of the seed, that the various seed lands on the hard rocks, or finally in the good soil.
		But the explanation for it is not there in the Talbot of Emmanuel, as I recall.
		And certainly nothing about evildoers being tossed into the furnace of fire and stuff.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, the field, there is two, and then the field being the world and the good seed.
		And then those are the children of the kingdom.
		And then the tares are the children of the wicked one.
		And the enemy that sows them is the devil.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		The concept of the devil doesn't appear in the Table of Emmanuel.
		That is very much the writer of the Gospel of Matthew's idea.
		It appears sprinkled all over the Gospel.
		But that same parable is in the Table of Emanuel to indicate that those who are far enough along to be able to accept the teaching would be able to accept it.
		And for them, the beneficial aspects would be as if things are multiplied many fold.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		The word Talmud, what does that translate mean?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		I think it's, when I looked it up, it's a Jewish word that goes back even before the Talmud of Jerusalem or the Talmud of Babylonia to have the meaning, original meaning in Aramaic or Hebrew, of teachings received by a disciple.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		So this would be teachings received by the disciple who wrote the Talmud of Emmanuel detailing Emmanuel's experiences and teachings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we've got about a minute on the wildcard line.
		You're on the air with Professor Deardorf.
		Hi.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Good evening.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		This is Fritz from Phoenix calling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, Jim, it's time that you came on, Dreamland.
		Tremlin has made a full circle now.
		You let the cat out of the bag.
		Fantastic with your research on Delemaya.
		And let's go a little step farther.
		The books of Abraham, Moses, Muhammad, and Joseph Smith will also be rewritten, and That will be a fact.
		And now, Jim, why don't you tell him the rest of the story about Emmanuel that he has already recycled?
		Are you aware of it?
		I'm aware that he has probably had different past lives and perhaps a future life or two between then and now.
		Is that what you mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I assume that is what he means, yes.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		There's no way of proving any of that, and I think it's just conjecture to say that so-and-so had been his past life, even if he had been told that from one of his kid in contact.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, on that note, stand by.
		We'll be back to you.
		Professor Emeritus Jim Deardorf is my guest.
		We'll be back.
unidentified		We'll be back.
		From the Kingdom of Nye, we continue with your calls on Dreamland with Art Bell.
		Call Art now toll-free at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-TALK.
		First time callers, Area Code 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Or the wildcard line at Area Code 702-727-1295.
		727-1295.
		In the 702 area code.
		Now again, here's our bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now again, here I am.
		My guest is Professor Jim Deardorff, Professor Emeritus.
		The discussion circulating around his book, Celestial Teachings.
		And we'll get back to him in just a moment.
		Professor Deardorf, are you there?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Oh, again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I would like to read this to you and let's see how you answer it.
		This comes from Lawson in San Clemente.
		As you know, despite Sean Morton's defense of Billy Meyer, a major and respected segment of the UFO community has rejected Meyer as a hoax and has repudiated him with some pretty convincing evidence, which I've seen firsthand.
		I think it would be intriguing if you could maneuver Professor Deirdorf into a discussion of his support of Billy Meyer in light of the suspicious nature of Meyer himself.
		What do you say to that?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it'd be a separate three-hour program, at least, to go over the Meyer evidence, the photographs, and the movie film.
		Out of 500, 700 relevant photos having UFOs in them, there's bound to be several photographs that have questionable aspects to them.
		And what you have to realize is that every one indicates a UFO is partially eclipsed behind a tree that's not a model tree, and if a tree in the distance is indicative of a large object out there in terms of nothing that a photographer could have hoaxed through any means available in 1975, you know, those computer techniques weren't available then.
		The fact that Meyer case is rejected by the spokesman for most of the main UFO organizations is not surprising because they reject all contactees as being oxides or mistaken people.
		It was only since about 1985 that the UFO organization came to realize that there were so many abductees around that they had to consider them as genuine and start studying them seriously.
		But they continue to reject the contact Ts because they've received more normal or favorable treatment from the ETs in comparison to the abductees, and it just makes better press to think that those that are being anxious over their treatment may be more truthful than those who've received better treatment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and from Tom in Portland, Oregon, how does Dr. Deardorf relate current animal mutilations and crop circles to your studies?
		And I am curious about that.
		Linda, how, as you know, reports on animal mutilations.
		Are they connected?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Not completely with the Meyer case, per se.
		It doesn't have anything to say.
		Well, it has a few things to say about animal mutilations, or about crop circles anyhow.
		But I believe this is misinformation that the plebeians are giving Meyer, and Meyer believes that information he's gotten since 1989 indicates that crop circles are all hoaxes, essentially.
		Sort of the impression one gets reading his later contacts.
		And he propagates this on believing it's true, and in my own opinion, it's not true, and there's ample evidence that most of them are genuine.
		And same with the animal mutilations.
		So I think the plebeians are adding their own Christopher Mill Hill, giving reason why skeptics can continue to reject the Meyer case, just so that he won't be turned into any giant guru and start a new religion or anything like that, or that they'll be treated as gods and goddesses again and the plebeians themselves.
		I can see this as a motivation why they would try to help discredit their own contactee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Professor Diardorf.
		Good evening.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Good evening.
		Do you totally disbelieve the teachings of the Bible?
		And what made you get into the studies of this document?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good question.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		It was the Talmud Emmanuel itself that got me started looking into this, and then I suddenly realized that, well, everyone's got to start looking into this for themselves.
		Why should I just accept what one minister or pastor tells me when there's all these other major religions in the world?
		And all there are hundreds of millions of people that believe just what they're told in their traditions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me rephrase his question, or repeat it, rather.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you totally disbelieve the teachings of the Bible?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		No, I think there's a lot of truth in various parts, but you have to hunt and Select for the truth, and that's where everyone will be bound to go astray.
		Like, I believe in the Golden Rule.
		That's in Matthew 7, 12.
		I believe it is.
		Well, of course, it's in the Talmud Emmanuel 2.
		But many scholars think that the Golden Rule is something that was fed in at a later date and was never spoken by Jesus or Emmanuel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorf.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Christana in Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the program.
unidentified		Thank you.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I'm just wondering if people could write you in care of your publisher.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's a good idea.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		I was going to try to get that in and didn't get to sip it in at time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, why don't we repeat the telephone number and an address where they could write, Professor?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Wildflower Press, the telephone number, 1-800-366-0264.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and an address?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Post Office Box 726.
		Newburgh, Oregon.
		That's Newberg, N-E-W-B-E-R-G.
		Oregon, that's O-R 97132.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's post office box at 726, Newberg, N-E-W-B-E-R-G, Oregon, 97132.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And those letters would get to you.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		They would get forwarded to me, and you could even ask them to purchase a telemetry manual filth there if you wish.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, very good.
		On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorf.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
		I've been listening to the show with much interest.
		About 1980, I met Bill Jenkins, who was the talk show host of Open Line on KABC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And he loaned me a copy of some auto-writings that he did.
		And in them, your show is bringing some of it back from memory.
		He wrote that Mary was transported to a spaceship, and she was artificially inseminated to create a very strong body for Jesus.
		That the spirit that inhabited him originally was not Jesus.
		That Jesus' spirit did enter that body when he was baptized in the water.
		And the reason for dunking him under the water is that the energy of his spirit was so strong that it would do damage to the people who were around unless the exchange took place underwater.
		And I've got it packed somewhere, and I don't know where.
		If I had it at hand, I would send a copy to you.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Talmud of Manual doesn't say anything definite about how Mary was impregnated, presumably it was some sort of Immaculate Conception in some technical E.T. way we wouldn't begin to understand, but perhaps she was abducted to do it.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
unidentified		Well, this was just what, as I'm remembering, of course, this was back in 1980, which was several years ago that I read it.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		This was an automatic writing with it?
unidentified		Yes, as I understood, someone was channeling through him, and he did this out of typewriter.
unidentified		And there were other subjects that were covered, but that's what's coming to my memory tonight.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		The Talmud of Emmanuel would indicate that the baby born in Bethlehem had his same spirit from then on that entered his body, and he never had an exchange of spirits during any baptism or anything.
unidentified		Well, that's just what happened to be what was in this document that Bill Jenkins wrote me.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's a lot of channelings that come through, and some claim that Emmanuel was an esteem, and that isn't borne out by Talmud Emmanuel.
		Some would say that he married Mary Magdalene or something, and that isn't borne out by Talmud Emmanuel either, although it has Emmanuel getting married later in life, maybe at age 40 or so in India, to some Indian woman and having several children,
		and the oldest child being the one that after he died carried back the writings, Talbot Emmanuel, all the way back to Palestine and circulated one copy there, apparently, and buried the other one for posterity to dig up a couple thousand years later.
unidentified		Well, I just thought it was an interesting coincidence that I had read this document many years ago.
unidentified		It is, and listening to your show tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		Thank you very much for that.
		Interesting, Professor.
		A lot of support for what you've said coming from all kinds of different sources.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		I think channelings have that purpose.
		We hardly know what the sources are, whether they're spirit voices or exotescal voices or what.
		But they seem to slip in a few little snippets of advanced information what we might not have thought much about as being true, and they're later borne out to be true.
		But then they have to give a lot of misinformation along with it so that we won't just come to rely on them for all our thinking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, on the toll-free line, you're on the air without a whole lot of time left in the program, unfortunately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the show.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Hi, calling from Anchorage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anchorage, Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		I was listening to a program, and I've been reading a book, William Brambley, a book by the name of The Gods of Eden.
		And in that, I also have another one called The Other Bible.
		And it brought reference to the Apocrypha, the Christian Apocrypha, which speaks of Jesus' earlier life and his journeys over to the East.
		And I just was curious if your guest there was familiar with either William Bramley or the material I just spoken about.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		If I have William Bramley's book, God of Eden, is it?
		He does blame about all wars, all wars on earth as having been caused by extraterrestrials one way or another, and I don't really go along with that.
		I think human beings have enough problems with them that they're able to start their own wars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We certainly have done very well in that category.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		And as to the Apocrypha, I'm not aware of that they themselves, well, I guess the Acts of Thomas gives some glimpse of Jesus being in India, but it's mostly Judas Thomas, being there after the crucifixion and years, and that would be borne out.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		It's as if someone tried to write it out and put it in a very sort of a Christian context, but tried to squeeze in little bits of truth so that it might get through and not be just totally destroyed as a bad Gnostic document.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wildcardline, you're on the air with Professor Deardorf.
		Good evening.
unidentified		Hi, I was wondering if Professor Geardor or you have ever heard of anything such as Frax magazine or any of the publications about hackers getting into the United States.
		Excuse me.
		United States of America, how should I put this?
		the United States of Paranet, which is the U.S. government's computer network office of the Internet.
		I was wondering if you have heard of any hackers hacking into that and any of their stories about how some of the U.S. technologies...
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		So actually, I've never even heard of this track magazine, but anyone who wants to tune right into internet and tune into their Alt Internet UFO section can say whatever they want, of course, and everyone's free then to read it and comment upon it.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Don't have to be a hacker for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Toll-free line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorf.
unidentified		Hello.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Oh, is that me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
unidentified		You would be the one.
		All right.
		I was going to say an idea somebody told me about as far as how Mary was impregnated, she was raped by a Roman guard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Raped by a Roman guard.
		Well, that certainly is not in line with what is in the Talmud.
		Is that correct?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		But that's one of the stories that I've heard of that's gone around.
unidentified		Right.
		And another thing, too, I'm not trying to be an unfriendly car or nothing, but I was wondering, do you have a speech impediment?
		Or, I mean, as far as, like, a lot of times when you're saying, it seems like maybe what you're saying may not be true because you start to, like, stutter or hesitate.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		I'm not all that good a speaker.
		That's why I concentrate on writing a few books or two.
		It's easier for me to kind of put across ideas that way.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Right.
		That it, Color?
		Yeah, that's about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you.
		On the first-time caller line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorf.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
		Hello.
		This is Ron from Bellevue.
		And on the first time caller, of course, I've been listening to the professor, and he mentioned the word heresies, and I think that's exactly what he's doing, in spreading heresies.
		I would like to ask him, number one, do you expect us to believe that the Romans, who were expert at death, don't know a dead man when they see one?
		Two, how would Jesus have removed the stone after three days?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let's hold it there.
		Well, I don't even know that we're still that expert in modern day with regard to death.
		So with regard to the Romans knowing death when they see it, what would you say, Professor?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		According to the Talmud Emmanuel, this spear thrust did occur that has a verse about that in the Gospel of John.
		Evidently, the writer of John and Luke also had a brief glimpse at this Talmud Emmanuel and couldn't do much with it because it was so full of heresies, but that got into the Gospel of John.
		And it would appear that when he was in his out-of-body state, I read up on this, and they say you don't feel any pain at all to your body when you're in the out-of-body state, and such a thing needn't drive you back into the body.
		And so in that condition, if he didn't evince any physical clinching or anything, it's only natural that the Roman guard would have considered him to be dead.
		Although he might have wondered when he saw blood come out, but a corpse isn't supposed to bleed, so he was sort of remiss in that respect, probably.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about the removal of the stone?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's sort of like in the Gospel of Matthew, there was this extraterrestrial in the tomb of Emmanuel that did come down there, and he was the one who rolled the stone away, and just to show the two Marys that were there that the tomb was empty and that Emmanuel had survived the crucifixion as he had prophesied he would after three days and nights.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		So it wasn't Jesus or Emmanuel rolling the stone away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with...
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Good evening.
unidentified		Good evening, Professor.
		My wife, Ostella Carlos, she's written several books, one about St. Paul, one about St. Luke, and we're on the Mary book when she died, and she also did one on Judas.
		But we are familiar with it.
		Jesus was educated in Egypt, of course, Joseph of Arimathea, her uncle, and also took him to India and Persia.
		And in India, they were going to assassinate him because he was also being friendly with the lower caste.
		And the Brahmins were going to assassinate him.
		But have you heard that also, that there was some talk that he was also in North America because the Indians talked to them there about a white prophet or something way back?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		We had another caller who had about the same question about the North America part.
		And nothing that Talbot Emmanuel, or my own knowledge, connects with that.
		Actually, Talbot Emmanuel doesn't say he was in Egypt either, except for that brief flight when he was just an infant with Mary and Joseph.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorf.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, thank you.
		You're welcome.
		I'm anxious to get on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I hope I make it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on.
unidentified		Oh, thank you.
unidentified		Is this our bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, go ahead, sir.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		You're on.
unidentified		Thank you.
		What is the meaning Of the animosity between Judaism, Christianity, and other world religions.
		And secondly, in your opinion, guest, what is the final result intended?
		Thank you.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Well, the animosity between Jews and Christians sort of developed naturally when Christianity evolved from Paul's teaching.
		And the Jews that did convert to Christianity were pretty darn disappointed that a lot more of the Jews didn't convert, but just stayed with their strict Judaism.
		So this was one of the problems.
		Some of the Gentiles were easier to convert than the pagans.
		Now, as to the last part of your question, maybe Art can rephrase it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, I don't know that I fully understood it myself, so I really can't.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I had problems with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you too, huh?
		Okay, on the wildcard line, very little time.
		You're on the air with Professor Deardorth.
unidentified		Yes, would Professor Deardorf be kind enough to give to the listening audience the Lord's Prayer according to the comment of Emmanuel as given on page 121 of his book, and also comment on 1 Chronicles 29 and 18.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're into too much of a serious question there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What difference is there in the Lord's Prayer, Professor?
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		There is a lot of difference.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		I was looking at this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we're way out of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I'm afraid we'll just have to suffice by saying this later.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		There's a parallel to it, and in the Talbot Emanuel, it's a prayer to one's spirit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Professor, we're out of time.
		I want to thank you for being on the program.
		And it was a fascinating session, and we will do this again sometime, but we're flat out of time.
		Got to go.
jim deardorff ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thanks a lot, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, thank you.
		And with regard to the person who asked about his speech patterns, I think that's more of a revelation about the ignorance of the caller.
		Thank you all, and we'll be back next Sunday with another Dreamland.
		Thank you all, and from the high desert, good night.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This has been Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not matched.
		Yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.

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