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Nov. 13, 1994 - Art Bell
01:59:55
Dreamland with Art Bell - Talmud Jmmanuel - ETs and the Bible - Jim Deardorff and Linda Moulton Howe - Animal Mutiliations
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Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience
not easily nor neatly put in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
This is Dreamland.
It is Dreamland.
It is Sunday evening.
I'm Art Bell, and I'd like to welcome you to the program.
It is going to be a good one.
It is going to be a very controversial program, so... I want to warn you right up front.
My guest is going to be Jim Deardorff, and he has written a book after many years of research called Celestial Teachings.
And this book, um, when all is said and done, I believe, uh, postulates that Jesus was an alien.
WAS an alien.
So, um, if that sort of, um, uh, if that sort of, uh, idea is something that is incompatible with your listening, then you would want to tune out right now.
Very controversial program coming up with Jim Deardorff.
Now, um, very briefly, before we get to Linda Howe, and she is here from the state of Colorado this evening.
You can never tell where Linda's gonna be.
She jets about.
Um, I wanna warn you that the, uh, we're on deadline now for the, uh, newsletter.
Our network, my program, has put out a newsletter at the beginning of the program.
Our researcher, uh, you never know where she is going to be.
Uh, this evening she is in Colorado for a specific reason.
Her name is Linda Howe.
Uh, nationally renowned, probably the, um, America's expert in the field of, um, uh, cattle mutilation.
And, um, she continues to research in that area.
And here she is, Linda Howe in Colorado.
Hi, Linda.
Hi, Art.
I'm in La Vida, west of Walsenburg, where a rancher found three of his cows dead and mutilated the week of October 24th.
In the pasture were five partial circles about four feet in diameter, not far from where the cows were found.
And we have been in the process of gathering graphs from those pastures and from these incomplete circles for analysis by Dr. Levengood in Michigan.
And I hope to do a report on his biophysical findings in probably next month.
And on Monday of this past week, there was a second buffalo mutilation near Kiowa, Colorado, east of Colorado Springs.
A veterinarian did a necropsy and found that all but four inches of the penis tissue had been removed into the abdomen of the buffalo.
Just like the first buffalo in October that we reported in the week of October 19th.
I've gotten lab results back now on that first buffalo.
There was no evidence of bacteria or virus in any of the major organs or excision sites meaning that buffalo was not diseased and the lab report simply says cause of death unknown.
It is interesting because this is in contradiction to the veterinarian speculation at the time that it was a sick buffalo who had died and that maybe predators had cut into the buffalo. We now have hard laboratory analysis
and saying there was no presence of bacteria or virus, which is underscoring why it is so
important for us to get to these animals fresh to do lab tests to separate out speculation
and rumor from hard medical facts.
Linda, are you starting to have any hope that, other than proving that it was not another
animal or other than proving that it was not some other human force
Um...
Uh, we can eventually get and actually find out what's behind these things.
They are really weird.
Yes, and as you know in my books and documentaries, I have been showing both in literature and
in the films, at least first hand eyewitness testimony that link non-human creatures to
the pastures where these animals have been found, to silver disks sitting in pastures
where these animals have been found, odd beams of light that people have described seeing
animals going up into the beams and coming back down.
And even though this eyewitness testimony is still not accepted in the current earth
paradigm that we are interacting with some other intelligence in the universe, I think
that we are moving slowly forward toward this kind of acceptance, this revolution that we're
not alone in the universe.
And part of what's pushing this is the fact that I and others are going out and interviewing
people who are eyewitnesses.
And out here in Kiowa, there are several residents who have seen odd-moving lights this fall.
And near the Buffalo Corrals, one man saw what he first thought were a line of motorcycles moving over the pastures very rapidly.
But what seemed to be the headlights moving on the motorcycles suddenly just disappeared.
The way eyewitnesses say that a light in the sky popped out, these were lights on the ground
moving rapidly that appeared to simply pop out, leaving that eyewitness completely baffled
about what he had seen.
That issue of camouflage and deception, which may have been what's been helping keeping
us blind and deaf to this phenomenon, has long been a question in the animal mutilation
And even Sheriff Lou Girodo in Trinidad, Colorado, was the first law enforcement official in 1979 to hypothesize that many of the mysterious helicopters associated with mutilations are, in fact, a camouflage technology by, and this was his quote, Well, one thing's for sure, Linda.
who disguise their activities by looking like common earth objects.
That is at least the opinion of one sheriff who has been investigating
mutilations in Colorado since the 1970s.
Well one thing's for sure Linda, any craft that would in essence
hover in the air or be seen to be hovering in the air would to us earthlings, the only explanation for such a
craft conventionally, would be a helicopter. Right and it also
leads to one of the the most interesting contact that I have had from our Greenland
audience.
This is a man named Mike Harris from Atlanta, Georgia.
He contacted me and I did an interview That I think just goes right to the heart of the issue of camouflage and what kind of technology may be around this planet and what our own government may know about these kinds of camouflage techniques by whatever this off-planet technology is and that our government may be experimenting with similar kinds of camouflage.
And right now I'm going to play for you a brief excerpt.
This is an eyewitness testimony by Mike Harris, Atlanta, Georgia, two years ago.
All right.
I heard this helicopter.
It was way off to one side.
I heard another helicopter way, way, way far off to the other side.
And then this thing flew over the house.
It was almost clear.
It was like it made no noise.
I mean, I jumped up and ran outside and was gone already, but I definitely saw it.
It like blocked the sky for a while as it went over.
It was very big and very low altitude.
It made no noise.
Now, would you pause and explain to me what you meant by it was clear?
The closest thing I can come to is it's Have you seen the movie Predator?
Yeah.
Have you seen how he turned on his electronic camouflage where he kind of blended in with stuff but you can still kind of see the outline?
Right.
But the closest I can come to describing what I saw, it was something like that.
And the size of this?
As big as a very large aircraft.
Meaning like a 747?
Oh yeah, yeah.
At two or three hundred feet in diameter?
Maybe not quite that big.
Maybe 150 feet.
Something like that.
Because it was so low.
It was right over the trees.
So I'm sitting at the kitchen table, right next to the door, looking out at the trees.
Right over the trees.
And I tell you, I got scared for a second.
I thought it was like a shadow and something was going to crash on us or something.
So I ran outside to look.
Because I knew they were running on a small altitude.
Military stuff.
The helicopter was way off to the side.
I could hear that.
I never did see it.
I was below the tree line to be, but this definitely went over,
definitely went over, you never saw it.
Okay, now, when you looked out the window and you said it was, they were, had fear
and it was like a shadow going over, do you mean that it cast a shadow on the ground
and that's why you knew there was something there even if you couldn't see it?
It was kinda like a shadow, it was just like a piece of the sky got kinda dark,
and, but you could still, it was still daylight color,
It was like a patch of darker daylight.
Can you imagine that?
It was like a patch of darker daylight moving.
And in that patch of darker daylight, was it all blue like the sky or was it other... It was, um...
Blue like the sky, but slightly darker.
Okay.
If it had been stationary, I don't think you would have noticed it too much.
Okay, so this blue was moving against the blue sky.
Mm-hmm.
And what was the shape of this darker blue?
I couldn't see the entire thing.
I couldn't see it.
It was not uniform, and I didn't really see it very long.
But it it went from like the back of my head back over the other side of the house and it came over so I'm looking at kind of an oblique angle up up through the trees at it and when it when it went by it brought the clouds and the clouds appeared again but it was broad daylight you know the sun was out and if it would have been a metallic say normal metallic Whatever.
I mean, we get Blimps come around for the sporting events here in town and stuff like that.
I'm used to seeing those before she played for the Goodyear and all that.
She handed me the wheel, Blimp.
It wasn't bad.
Was this over?
I really couldn't testify to that.
Okay.
It was a block of moving blue color that was darker than the sky.
I couldn't see the edges, the outside edges to the left or right.
Okay, now, when it went in front of the clouds, do you mean that the clouds literally were behind a blue object?
Yes.
Yes.
And the military aerial craft that were in the sky were what again?
There were some helicopters and some C-130s.
Did they seem to be in an offensive or defensive position in or around this blue moving object?
Helicopters were like escorts on both sides of it.
The helicopters were definitely escorting?
That's well done.
Well put, this way.
They were parallel course, parallel speed.
Which raises an even more interesting question, Art.
If that object may have been something maybe off planet, why were helicopters escorting it?
And if it wasn't off planet, was that an example that we already are in our own atmosphere Well, I'll tell you Linda, what an absolutely fascinating report.
may not have to do with deflecting photons or holography.
All issues that have come up through the abduction literature that... Well, I'll tell
you, Linda, what an absolutely fascinating report. Now, the way I understood it was a large section of
dark blue moving against a blue sky. Right. Wow.
Yes, and it implies something.
Remember back in the literature in UFO cases, going back into the 50s and 60s, that there were these mentions that people said that they saw a silver disc in the sky, broad daylight, and then suddenly it would pop out the way they're described at night, but at night it's a light that disappears in the dark sky.
These were cases where a silver disk pops out, and what's left is sky.
Well, back then, I think it was considered that that was literal.
Now, today, we're becoming more sophisticated.
It's very possible that what this man has just described would be exactly the technology that people were describing
silver disks popping out and being a blue sky.
It could be some kind of a field that then mimics the environment around it.
What I wonder, Linda, we have something called noise-canceling technology that actually is fairly well-developed right now.
And you can mask a noise, like an engine of a helicopter or a jet, by creating a noise 180 degrees out of phase with it, and literally broadcasting that noise as you go.
To those then on the ground, there would be absolutely no noise.
One would cancel the other.
And you've got to wonder if they've not developed some technology Uh, wherever they got it, that does, in essence, the same thing to the visual spectrum.
Right, and, uh, going along those lines, it was 11 years ago, in 83, when I was at Kirtland, and, uh, that Richard Doty was showing me a briefing paper about, uh, alleged, allegedly what, uh, some of the government, uh, insiders knew concerning some of this intelligence, and he said, from what he gathered that we were dealing with a
technology with one of these groups out there that could deflect photons and if you deflect photons from
any object those photons are going to reach our retina or that specific retina and that means
that would essentially appear as it would disappear if we don't have photons hitting the retina
of our eyes we don't see the chair or the table in front of us yes that's right wow
Neat.
It may be deflection, it may be holography.
It's also possible that there could be sophisticated holographic images that are being used exactly like camouflage.
Sure.
Linda, look, a lot of people want to contact you, so I'm not going to let a week go by.
I want you to provide your number and your address and the reason why people should contact you.
Okay, well the phone numbers tonight that I'll give out will be for the Learning Annex.
I've been getting several calls, people wanting me to repeat this number where I'll be speaking in Manhattan on November 30th and then Toronto on December 1.
The registration number in New York City is area code 212-570-6500.
And the registration number in Toronto is area code 416-964-0014.
On November 30th and December 1, and if any of our Greenland listeners make either of these learning annexes, please come up and shake my hand and introduce yourself.
And then I continue to be impressed by the very solid eyewitness account that I'm receiving in letters.
And I would like to encourage people with subject matter and their own encounters over many of these subjects, including those who may have government knowledge from their own experiences and could share with me totally confidentially.
And that is Linda Howe, Post Office Box 5.
38 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, spelled H-U-N-T-I-N-G, D as in dog, O-N, Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
The zip code is 1-9-0-0-6.
And once again, that's post office box 538, Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
1-9-0-0-6.
Wonderful.
Linda, that was a great report tonight.
We're going to look forward to talking to you again next week.
Philadelphia or elsewhere?
That's right.
Next week, I believe I should be back in Philadelphia before I go up to New York and Toronto for the learning unit.
Talk to you next week, Linda.
Okay.
Thank you.
That's Linda Howe, and she reports on... Well, I don't have to tell you.
You just heard it.
We've got another new affiliate.
I may have mentioned this a week ago, but I don't think they caught it, so let's do it for their benefit.
It is K-N-R-Y-A-M in Monterey, California.
Right down on Cannery Row, I guess.
That's K-N-R-Y in Monterey, California.
And I believe that brings our affiliates for this program to an incredible 82.
82 affiliates now for Dreamland.
Alright, coming up, Jim Deardorff and Celestial Teachings.
And as I said a moment ago, and I want to say again right now, when we boil it all down, I believe that Jim teaches that though it may not be so, there is significant probability, after all his years of research, that Jesus actually was Repeat was an alien.
Now if this kind of thing specifically bothers you, if you are going to be unreasonably disturbed by it, I suggest you tune out.
If you are interested in what the man has to say and will listen with an open mind, stay right where you are.
Because in just one moment, Jim Deardorff.
You're listening to the CBC Radio Network.
From the Kingdom of Nye, we continue with your calls on Dreamland with Art Bell.
Call Art Now, toll free at 1-800-618-8255.
1-800-618-TALK.
First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
702-727-1222.
Or the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
1-800-618-TALK. First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
727-1295.
702-727-1222. Or the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295. 727-1295. In the 702 area
code. Now again, here's Art Now again, ears are down.
Now I hear, uh, here again I am.
Hello, everybody.
I think you're gonna find this fascinating.
Let me read from the, uh, back of his book that might help, Celestial Teachings.
Celestial Teachings explores and analyzes a document called the Talmud of Emmanuel.
It was discovered in 1963 after being buried and encased in resin for nearly 2,000 years.
The discoverer was assassinated and the document was burned.
Fortunately, a significant portion of it had already been translated and put into safe hands.
Is this the true origin of the Gospel of Matthew?
Or is this a cruel hoax?
James Deardorff provides the astonishing answers after six years of research.
Now we will go, as you could with his book, and explore it with him.
Here is, well, wait a minute, let me put him over there and put him here, I think.
Jim Deardorff, welcome to the program.
Hi, Art.
Hi.
You come to us, I think, from up in Corvallis, Oregon, right, Jim?
Yeah, that's where Oregon State University is.
And you actually are Professor Jim Deardorff, correct?
Yes, emeritus.
I've been retired for about eight years.
I see.
Well, I'm curious, first of all, what in the world led you To this whole area from a traditional academic background, Jim, this is quite a jump.
How'd you make it?
Yes, I had been just a research professor or researcher first in the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado for 16 years, a senior scientist, and moved back to Oregon State in 1978 and continued my research there.
Not too long after that I became more interested in ufology and looked into the Edward Meyer case of Switzerland.
Billy Meyer?
Billy Meyer.
Uh-huh.
And that got me interested in looking into more and more things and I came across this document called the Talmud of Manuel.
It's a translation anyhow.
And at that time it was still only in German language and we're struggling to translate it into English.
But it It purports to be the two teachings of Jesus.
I know there's a lot of channelings around that purport to do the same thing, and they all differ from one another, but this one has much more of the ring of truth to it.
How did you, uh, Jim, how did you come upon this document?
How did you get it?
Well, it's part of the Meyer case literature document.
He has all these contact notes, he has some channelings, too, that were given to him, and this document, like It says the convention he discovered in 1963 with the help of a priest in Jerusalem who befriended him, whom he befriended.
Maybe we better give a little bit of background on the Meyer case.
Can you give the audience, not all of them certainly are familiar with the Billy Meyer case, an outline of how Billy Meyer got all of this or what happened to Billy Meyer?
Yeah, he's a contactee way back The age of five which takes him back into the early 40s and his contactors first told him or eventually told him they were from the Pleiades and one of his contactors a woman named Ascot took him all around the Middle East and encouraged him to partake and study all the various religions right at their roots as best he could and it was in 1963 when he was doing that
uh...
middle east that he came across this document
buried in a cave near jerusalem well i mean what happened to billy meyer how was
he contacted by people from pleiades is it yes that occurred later
uh... for ten years after middle east ventures
he didn't have any contact until nineteen seventy five and his contact began
And about 1977, we began to hear about it from the people who had investigated the case the most.
All right, but the Talmud of Immanuel came from the Middle East about 10 years prior to those other, now very famous... No, it was discovered in 1963, yeah.
Right.
All right, so you came upon this document written mostly in German.
Yeah, it's written and it's been translated from the original Aramaic.
with the help of this priest who learned and understood Khmer Mek into Myers language which
is German or Swiss German.
And then you what?
You had it translated into English Jim?
Well I had to go by a crude translation that had a lot of mistakes in it that came out
in 1984 I believe it was and later I tried to make my own corrections to it.
It purports to say a lot of interesting things that New Testament scholars would find astounding
but yet would I think find no way a hoaxer could do.
I've been trying to turn myself into a New Testament scholar the last ten years.
I guess you would have to, wouldn't you?
Just about.
Just to see what their viewpoint would be and what their approach is.
Well, it's hard to know where to start with this.
As you looked at this document and then, as you mentioned, became a New Testament scholar, what did you begin to conclude about it, or how did you try and decide whether you had a real document in your hands or whether you had a clever fake in your hands?
Well, it's evident right from the beginning that it's very similar in certain respects to the Gospel of Matthew.
So similar that you know that it isn't a hoax that was made after after or from the gospel of Matthew, then it was the
original document from which the gospel of Matthew drew as its source, from which the gospel of
Matthew got formed, and then later the other gospels. Well, if this was the document from which the
gospel of Matthew was written...
A copy of it, I would say.
I see.
Well, if that's true, then how do you account for the apparent major differences between it and the Gospel of Matthew?
Well, you see, this document is totally heretical to Christianity.
I understand that.
That's why I'm asking, how do you account for those differences?
In other words, if one was sourced for the other...
Yes, well the compiler of Matthew would have had to filter out everything that was unacceptable to Christianity in the early 2nd century.
Paul's teachings had taken hold over 70 years or so later in the middle of the 1st century and the early Christian Church then followed that route.
the people that might have believed in Jesus' true teachings, most of them ended up as Gnostics,
enemies of the early church, and they didn't have any central authority or any organization,
and their teachings just varied all over the place, and they didn't have anything written
down that kept them going like they did.
Alright, well let's cut through it here and try and find out exactly what is in this document.
What is it that it says that would surprise us or shock us, I guess, that Jesus is an alien.
Is that what it says?
Not quite.
There's a small correction necessary there.
Alright.
His father was an alien.
The one that mentioned Gabriel.
I'm sorry, his father what?
His father was the alien.
His mother is Mary, the Earthling.
That makes Jesus half-alien.
Half-alien, half-human?
Yes.
Do you remember a week or two ago you had an abductee on your program named Katerina?
I do, yes.
Uh-huh.
Katerina Wilson.
She knows that her mother is sure that Katerina's birth was an abnormal thing, that she'd had an alien father.
Well, it's very similar to that.
Well, there's a big difference, Jim.
Either you're human or you're not.
You may look like a human, but if you are not of human origin, if you're not from Earth, then you're not a human, right?
might just call them humans too.
Advanced.
Well, there's a big difference, Jim.
Either you're human or you're not.
You may look like a human, but if you are not of human origin,
if you're not from Earth, then you're not a human, right?
Yes, this brings into a lot of question various uncertainties.
We don't know if these plebeians are still genetically compatible with us or not, but
they could well be.
Whereas we know the grave and other aliens like that must have to do a lot of genetic
manipulation to make any hybridization like that work.
Hmm.
All right.
Well, how do we approach this subject?
In other words, what in these teachings gives you reason to believe that they are valid
versus what is not?
What do you think of the UFOs? What do you think of the UFOs?
What do you think of the UFOs?
The UFOs are the most dangerous things on earth.
The UFO-like aspect of the star Bethlehem would be one thing that you'd find pretty
convincing when you read along.
the next one.
You would understand that, well, this is just what they might call a UFO in those days.
Absolutely.
They don't have that word.
Right, a bright star in the sky, or seemingly a star, but of course moved, and so traditionally, if that were seen today, it would certainly, certainly be called a UFO.
Yes, and you have to figure out some way that the wise men, the magi, could have been informed
back in their own home country to the east, wherever that was, to drop everything and
start going to the west in the direction that this object in the sky led them.
But still they had to know that it had to do something with the birth of a marvelous
child.
So this is something a UFO and its occupants can do, talk through mental telepathy, you
That is certainly true.
And, uh, that got the wise men to as far as Jerusalem, and there they asked around of, uh, Herod, uh, they knew where this, he knew where this child was, and Herod didn't know, so he convened his chief priests and scribes, and they, uh, figured out that according to the Book of Micah, Uh, chapter 5 or something like that, uh, this child should have been, should be born in Bethlehem.
So, they directed him towards Bethlehem, and about that time the object reappeared, that's why his mind got started towards Bethlehem, and led them the rest of the way directly to the very birthplace, which, of course, again, no star can do.
So, it's just a minor alteration that the compiler of Matthew's gospel did to change a Unknown object in the sky that had strange powers that
nobody could understand them into a more normal object and try to make it look
acceptable enough so that he could retain part of the story anyhow as much as he could hmm, so
The theory is it was a UFO it was of extraterrestrial origin. Yeah, all right
So that is just one of many major heresies Thank you.
You could go on to another one and say that... Right, we might as well lay it all out and drive everybody crazy right here at the beginning.
Okay.
Emanuel being a contactee would be another one.
Apparently during those 40 days and nights when he was supposedly out in the wilderness being tempted by the devil.
This is right after the baptism at the Jordan.
The thing that actually came down from the sky wasn't some spirit that resembled a dog or anything.
It was a UFO with that occasion, too.
And then after that happened, Emanuel went into the UFO and it took off.
And instead of being in the wilderness for 40 days and nights, he was away receiving contactees' instructions.
And learning what his mission was and all that for 40 days.
Wow.
That is a bit of a difference, all right.
Yeah, but one thing that hasn't changed very much is that even today, you know, UFOs are called by quite a few people instruments of the devil.
Fundamental branches of Christianity, anyhow.
Oh, there's no question about it.
I get people calling them that all the time.
It was easy for the compiler of Matthew's Gospels, after he read what happened in the Talmud Immanuel document, to make that little alteration and change it to the devil.
He would have it be this strange object in the sky that could do these powerful things.
Well, another, uh, just a single sentence in the Talmud Immanuel mentions Immanuel having spent many years in India in his youth.
Yes.
So, there you'll recall the stories you've probably heard of those lost years having been spent in India from other sources.
And this confirms that.
Of course, again, Holster would say it's the other way around, so it doesn't prove anything that way.
Well, Jim, you have a great advantage.
You have studied these documents carefully now for six years.
Are you convinced in your own mind they are authentic?
possible Matthew is by several chapters.
Well Jim you have a great advantage.
You have studied these documents carefully now for six years.
Are you convinced in your own mind they are authentic?
Yeah, so I would say so although there is a possibility that some of the alterations
that crept in after Meyer first published it and then his contacts resumed.
This gets back to the Meyer case.
Yes.
His contact resumed in 1989, and he was told that the Talbot Emanuel, as he had it, had quite a few errors in it that hadn't been carefully enough edited and everything originally, and that his contactor told him what the corrections were, and he entered all those in.
Got a revised vision, changed the birth numbers around, stuff like that.
But it's only about 5% change from what it was, so we can probably ignore that here.
But it muddies up the waters, I think, a little bit.
Well it does, and who is to know whether he made corrections that made the document more accurate, or made corrections that were themselves inaccurate.
But you say it only represents about 5% of the total document at best?
Yeah, and actually my book came out before we had that Do the corrections that you've seen in your estimation make it more or less credible as a document?
I see.
by the earlier version of the book.
Do the corrections that you've seen in your estimation make it more or less credible as
a document?
About 50-50.
Some do, and some could be considered being suspicious elements.
I see.
Well, okay, we're still dealing with a document, at least 95% of a document, even if you erase
the changes that were made, which purports that what we believe to have been Jesus was
in fact not all human, correct?
Yeah.
Half alien from aliens who say they're from the Pleiades.
What about, uh, motive?
I'll tell you what, I'll ask you about that in just a moment.
Jim Deardorff, stand by, we'll be right back to you.
And, uh, he, uh, maintains that Christ was actually only half human.
The other half, alien.
Jim, are you there?
Yeah.
Okay, good.
Um, if you were sitting down trying to convince somebody that these teachings were correct, and you just had but a few moments to kind of capsulize, um, what, what, uh, what you've written about this document, How would you do it?
What would you tell them?
Well, I wouldn't try to in just a very few minutes.
The best example I know of is a little bit complicated and takes maybe three or four or five minutes.
Okay.
But before we get started on that, I thought you wanted to go through all the heresies.
That's true, I do.
So let's stay with that for a moment.
Okay.
After Emmanuel returned from India, having studied under the great masters and gurus there, When he taught in Palestine, he naturally taught reincarnation and karma rather than resurrection.
Well, there's another one.
Yeah, that's another big one.
Yeah, it sure is.
Reincarnation and karma.
Yeah.
You've had, I think, aspects of that on some of your shows before.
Absolutely.
So it wouldn't come as any surprise to your listeners No, but it's going to come as a surprise to many that that was actually taught in depth.
I mean, what did he teach about it?
Can you give us any idea?
Well he taught that the human spirit starts out as a very small tiny piece of true God
which he in the Talmud Immanuel called God by the name creation which we might say is
the creator and that through many many successive lifetimes that human spirit gradually becomes
more and more knowledgeable one can of course try to get in contact with it through meditation
or listen to your conscience at the right time to interact with it but otherwise each
past life is forgotten subject in each new life.
Interesting Jim the reference to the creation as opposed to the creator.
That one might, in effect, not, I don't know if worship is the right word, but follow or speak to or try to be one with the process itself of creation as opposed to the creator.
Is that right?
I think so, and because creator sort of cleans up an image of something centralized at some point, you know.
You call he or she, but it's more of a pantheistic view, I think, that the Talmud Immanuel has.
I see.
That God is everything, everywhere, and that's the spiritual aspect of everything, the intelligence behind the creation of everything.
Okay.
So, what else about reincarnation?
I don't believe he taught Any transmigration of the soul to animals after death, but to other humans.
Just to other humans.
That differs from the Hindu view that you might have come across.
What did it speak to, what did it speak to with regard to the nature of the soul, again?
Well, nothing particularly definite, except that it evolves through successive lifetimes and eventually, zillions of lifetimes later, apparently will merge back again with the creation.
All right, well that is as much heresy as we can fit into this hour, Jim.
So relax for a few moments.
all over the universe which it then evolves too because it's continually receiving more
and more knowledge and wisdom from all the evolved souls that merge with it.
Alright, well that is as much heresy as we can fit into this hour Jim.
Oh.
So relax for a few moments, we'll do some news here at the top of the hour and come
back.
Okay.
Well I told you this was going to be a bit controversial.
This should be an interesting program.
Professor Jim Deardorff is my guest.
And we'll get back with him in just a moment.
Can I switch my battery?
Huh?
Demand better.
Visit your neighborhood Oldsmobile retailer today.
It is listed in the Gospel of Matthew that Jesus had And then they traveled around quite a lot.
Emanuel gradually teaching more and more.
The farther, I guess, they got away from the Palestinian area, the more confident he could be that his identity wouldn't be found out.
Traveling through Anatolia, which is the area of Turkey nowadays, and then back eventually towards India, Kashmir, So going across on the Silk Road, they call it, traveled during those days.
Takes about two years just to go one way from there to India.
So then he lived out a very long life there in India.
And lived out his life?
Yeah.
Let me ask you, Jim, this.
How large is this document, the Talmud of Immanuel?
How large is it?
Four or five chapters longer than the Gospel of Matthew.
I see.
It doesn't take into account any of the teachings he made in India and Kashmir and all over there.
So that was the part that was lost.
They just started out translating the first part and got as much of it done as they can and suddenly this priest who was doing the translations after Meyer had left back for Switzerland and was mailing in sections of translations every so often Priest was caught up, found out, had to flee for his life, and eventually assassinated in 1976.
Alright, here's a question from somebody who sent in a fax, Jim.
How does this document impact on the book of Revelation?
Specifically, what does it suggest Revelation refers to?
Can we expect a return of Jesus?
If so, when?
How would this occur, and what conditions will accompany his return?
What is the purpose for his return?
Okay, it doesn't really impact the Book of Revelations at all.
The Book of Revelations is apparently the dream work of the writer of the Gospel of John, at least some callers think so.
And it's just not related to anything that Talbot Emanuel had to say.
It's the Gospel of Matthew is much more closely related and some of the parts of chapter 24 in Matthew that speak of the second coming are in the Talmud Immanuel.
So it says he will be alive, that would be reincarnated in some human at the time of his second return.
And that would be with this, what is it, blaze of light or something in the sky which you can imagine could be UFOs perhaps.
Yes, of course.
Could be.
Is there a prediction in this document of when that might occur?
Nothing exactly, but the time period of two millennia is mentioned in the future, so it's obviously our time, and of course, skeptics can have quite a lot of fun with that.
I have seen a number of documents.
Most interestingly, are you familiar with something called the Pope's Predictions?
No, unless they came from the Fatima incident.
No, not specific.
It says in them that there will be visitors coming our way.
These are supposedly predictions made by the Pope in the year 1995.
And that there will be many visitors, some of whom will seem strange to us, but will Well, roughly in the end, but it's too indefinite.
and so forth and so on, from what they call, or is called in the Pope's predictions, a
burned cinder. So somewhere between now and the year 2000, would that be your best guess?
Well, roughly in the end, but it's too indefinite. It could be another ten years after that,
for all I know. According to the Talmud Immanuel, they're not going to come to revive the earth
They're going to come to... Well, I don't know what they're going to do.
To try to deal with what's left after various catastrophes.
The idea of catastrophism is in there.
The Earth changes, the burning speakers?
Earth changes, floods and all that.
And perhaps even a man-made war.
probably would have a nuclear weapon involved.
There's a hint of that in there.
Without, of course, the word nuclear or anything being there.
So, uh, you have to say, obviously, all of this, and I guess puts you right in line with
listening to and studying what a lot of abductees have to say.
Sure, so I've been trying to keep up on that, of course, over the years too.
Well, I hope this program has helped you in that regard.
Yes, although I wish we could get a station closer to Corvallis, Oregon.
Jim, are you convinced...
You are pretty well convinced that this document is accurate.
I'm wondering how this has affected, if it has affected, your personal faith, whatever it was.
Well, maybe this would be the appropriate part to try to set forth an example of why I think this isn't anything that could be a hoax by looking at a particular verse and comparing it with the Gospel of Matthew.
It would be, yes.
Go right ahead.
Okay, it's a minor Minor things, I think, that point to me the most likelihood that it's not a hoax.
Anyone could read up on major things and try to write a nice, flowing, coherent story that follows the Gospel of Matthew in its main outline and has all these heresies in it.
Although I wouldn't be able to do so myself because it all flows too interestingly and smoothly.
But looking at some minor points, there's one spot in Well, it's always been a little bit strange to some scholars.
where it speaks about Jesus having come into his own country and taught in their synagogue
but there he was rejected.
Do you remember the rejection story?
Yes.
And then the prophet without honor is his own country.
Well it's always been a little bit strange to some scholars.
Why I just mentioned that he went to his own country and taught.
In the Talmud Immanuel it says he went to Nazareth and taught.
And this is what every scholar has inferred must have been meant there because they know
that's where he is said to have grown up, his own hometown.
So just a few verses past there, there's another spot beginning in chapter 14 in Matthew where
it mentions that at that time Herod the Tetrarch heard about the fame of Jesus and then proceeds
on with the story of the beheading of john the baptist On the time of Immanuel, it's a little bit different, saying that at the time that Immanuel dwelled in Nazareth, this is when that happened, the time he visited Nazareth.
And by leaving that one word, Nazareth, out there in the Gospel of Matthew, It's always been a puzzle to gospel scholars whether this whole episode is a flashback or not.
Because it says it occurred at that time, but there wouldn't have been time for this to have occurred if you go over the chronology of the story and the way it's situated there.
And in retrospect now, with the Tell Me the Manual explanation here, we can see that it's surmised that the word Nazareth was taken out by the Man, the scribe who compiled the Gospel of Matthew because that was to punish Nazareth for not having believed in Jesus' works there that he did.
Not having the faith and not committing him to show his mighty works there.
And so this was quite a serious thing to the early church to have an instance when Jesus couldn't perform his healings and miracles.
And so to punish Nazareth for doing that to him, when he came this far in the story, he just left out the word Nazareth.
He just replaced it with one instance saying it was in his own country.
So this is a very minor thing.
Most scholars haven't even known about it.
When it was first noted, as far as I can tell, it was by a scholar in 1989, long after the Talmud Immanuel had come out.
And so it's nothing that a hoaxer could have thought up by himself unless he was really a clever original scholar
himself.
Are there, Jim, a lot of examples like that?
Yeah, I picked out about 35 that I put in that category.
That's quite a few.
Yeah. And I found about another 170 that I thought are all in favor of the Talmud Immanuel being genuine rather than
the Gospel of Matthew.
Now, when you did your research, Jim, were you... You know, there are various ways of setting out to prove something, one way or the other, and I'm wondering whether you were sort of trying to prove that the Talmud of Emmanuel Was it authentic and you picked out each example that would
give credence to that argument or were you subjective as you did it, picking out things on
both sides and in fact compiling a positive and negative list?
No, I was mostly on the positive side because you have to be fully interested in it and
pretty well convinced in advance that it couldn't be a hoax before you'd want to retire early
from a successful career and then spend years looking into this.
That certainly would be true, yes.
Yes, absolutely, devoting the rest of your life to it in effect.
That's the way it worked, although I keep trying to look at the other side of the argument as I go along here, and it just indicates over and over that scholars have taken the wrong route, especially where it ever In any case, where there was something embarrassing for the early church, they picked a solution that was as least unsatisfactory as possible that they could get.
I absolutely do not put it beyond mankind to have done this.
History is full of examples of mankind doing this sort of thing, and so it could easily be.
Jim, I would like to begin to take some calls from the audience and questions.
And so let us do that in just one moment.
Professor Emeritus Jim Deardorff, who has been studying and would be glad to talk to you about a document called the Talmud of Immanuel.
And we'll be back with him in just a moment.
Give us the phone numbers.
That'd be a good idea, huh?
If you are a first-time caller to the program, the number is area code 702-727.
This is a pre-recorded, previously broadcast program.
This is a pre-recorded, previously broadcast program.
The wildcard direct dial lines are area code 702-727-1295.
702-727-1295.
And toll free, wherever you are, it's 1-800-727-1295.
1-800-618-8255.
Jim, are you there?
Yes.
Alright, let's go to the lines and see what awaits.
I was wondering, since you're giving out telephone numbers, should I give out one for Celestial Teachings?
Oh, we absolutely will get to it, Jim.
Okay.
So, stand by.
On our toll-free line, you're on the air with Jim Deardorff.
Hi.
I've been listening to some of the comments made by Jim Deardorff.
Yes.
I need to mention or preface that I am a parapsychologist, a ufologist, and a contactee.
And I do need to say that his research, in my estimation, is not foreign to me.
I really accept the fact that Jesus is an alien.
In fact, I would go so far as to say that our Mother Mary may have been a... may have been implanted with a Listen, even abductees have to turn their radios off when they get on the air.
Okay, hold on.
Yes, thank you.
Everybody, you need to do that.
When you get on the air, turn your radio all the way off or you will find it confusing and you will in fact sound confused.
So hopefully this lady has done it.
I'm sorry.
Yes, so that is not foreign to me, although he probably will get A lot of challenges from the religious.
Very angry calls, I would expect.
Right.
But I do support his research and I do believe in whatever findings he seems to be coming up with right now.
And thank you for allowing me to come through.
Alright, thank you for coming through.
Thank you, Emily.
So there you go, Jim.
Support.
Yes, I think it's an appropriate idea that Mary must have been an abductee of some sort.
And even Joseph must have been contacted by the extraterrestrial who was involved here because of the passages in Matthew
which say he was contacted in a dream by an angel.
Well you can see how easily a real event there would have been altered into a dream to make it sanctionable for the
early church.
Alright, Jim, let me ask you this.
I spoke earlier and didn't follow up on motivation or what their intentions are.
What have you been able to deduce with regard to their intentions toward us?
Well, in terms of planning Emmanuel's life and his mission, it seems to have been the idea that Earthlings at that time were beginning to be far enough along that we should have some of the right ideas given to us, preferably from one of our own, so that we can Bandy them about in our brains and discuss them as well as all the false ideas that lead to false religions that were around at the same time, too.
They don't seem to want to force their views upon us.
Maybe that's impossible, anyhow.
Well, what are we to them?
We seem to be related to them.
That's why they're genetically, so to say, so much the same, and in Myers, Edward Myers' contact notes, There's long stories of the history of Earth that involve the Pleiadians earlier where the Pleiadians are said to have not acted too honorably in various instances many thousands of years in the past and they therefore feel some obligation back a couple thousand years ago as well as now to see if there's certain little things they could do to plant the right ideas in people's heads so that we can at least discuss them and try to
pushed good ideas along with the bad.
So let me pick up on that.
These aliens are not necessarily that honorable, is that correct?
In the past, right.
As you probably know, many of them stayed here for long term visits back many, many
thousands of years ago and became known as gods and goddesses and started these mythologies
all over the earth.
And again, you would think the subjects of those myths, insofar as there may be some
truth based in them, were aliens?
Sure.
You maybe read some of Zacharias Thickken's work on that.
Oh yes.
It would seem that those aliens that allowed themselves to become worshipped as gods and goddesses, maybe some of them couldn't prevent it, but others have known better.
Encouraged?
So, in effect, took advantage of the poor, savage human being and allowed us to worship, knowingly building that myth?
Yes, and at times helping to get religions going that soon went very far astray.
Gee, what scoundrels.
All right, Professor.
Hold on just a moment.
We'll be right back to you.
Professor Emeritus Jim Deardorff is my guest.
And I'm sure this is going to be a fun remainder to the program.
You should really enjoy this.
I know I'm going to.
You're listening to Dreamland, coming to you on a Sunday evening.
This is a program that examines alternative theories.
We're squarely into one this evening.
We'll be right back.
Call Art Now, toll free at 1-800-618-8255.
1-800-618-TALK.
First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
Call Art Now toll free at 1-800-618-8255. 1-800-618-TALK.
First time callers area code 702-727-1222. 702-727-1222.
Good evening, everybody.
Jim Deardorff, Professor Emeritus, is our guest.
one two nine five seven two seven one two nine five in the seven oh two area code now again
here's our bell now again here i am good evening everybody jim deardorff uh professor emeritus
is our guest he for six years uh in retirement has been researching uh these documents
uh called the talmud of emmanuel and it maintains uh quite a bit of heresy actually
Uh, it's entitled Celestial Teachings, and I'll, I'll, we will tell you how to get it in just a moment.
Uh, let's continue with calls on the toll-free line.
You're on the air with Jim Deardorff.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
Hello.
This is the intercom here in San Diego.
Yes.
May I ask your guest, uh, does he believe, uh, that, uh, what, uh, he calls human beings can be born without a soul?
All right.
No, I don't, although it's uncertain to me what time of gestation, at what time in gestation the soul or spirit typically enters the baby's body.
Whether it's a few weeks after birth, which is what Edward Meyer was told, or whether it could be as late as birth.
I don't know.
A few weeks after birth?
No, a few weeks after conception, I meant.
Oh, after conception?
Yes.
All right.
Or as the baby is actually born into the world.
Of course, it is a very important question, Jim, because of the modern controversy with regard to abortion.
That's right.
And so you're a little unclear from this work when that occurs?
Well, we wouldn't be able to trust anything we heard anyhow unless we could check it out for ourselves, and we have no device that will test for the presence or absence of a human spirit.
No, that's true.
We certainly have no such device.
Maybe a psychic could.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorff.
Hi.
Good evening, Art.
Good evening, Professor.
Good evening.
I find some of your Explanations for Christ, interesting.
It would, as a matter of fact, explain Immaculate Conception, Resurrection, and most of the miracles that He performed in front of people.
I was wondering if you had any ideas on... You said that He lived His life out in India?
Yes, although traveling around quite a lot.
So, Northern India, Kashmir, and perhaps other places a little farther away.
Do you think that would lead into Hinduism and other religions in the area?
Well, Hinduism, of course, had been going on for many, many centuries earlier.
But I might have reinforced it, you know, a little bit.
Because he would have been teaching rather similar things.
Are there any records of any travels in North America or speculation on that?
I haven't looked into that.
There is a book on that I know, I don't remember its title, just from the Tablet of Manuals.
What Meyer had to say after he was told by this priest who had evidently skimmed through this whole document before it was destroyed and told Meyer the gist of his having gone on to India and all that that didn't ever get translated.
There was no hint that he went on to America which might have had to be done by a UFO I guess.
Well, thank you very much, Professor.
All right, thank you very much for the call.
And here is a faxed-in question from Oklahoma City.
Art, please ask your guest how he equates this in respect to the other Gospels, which also say that Jesus was God's Son, and in respect to other writers of the time that are not in the Bible, such as Flavius Josephus.
This is a pretty important question.
It might help a lot of people decide whether they believe him or not.
Cameron in Oklahoma City.
Well, the crux of the question seems to revolve about the play's God's Son, and you could understand how the people at that time, if he were to tell them he was the son of Gabriel, a celestial angel, wouldn't know quite what to think, and that could have been equated to God's Son right then and there.
So, the idea that it was God's Son, it wouldn't be too surprising if that came about for that reason, but I think Paul was the one who got it going, and Paul indeed might have had the idea from the previous writings that had been around in the Hellenistic literature like Cameron suggested.
So to Paul it wouldn't have been a totally new idea to say that Jesus was God's son.
I believe he is the first one to have come up with that.
All right.
This is from Sylvia in Vancouver.
To you, Jim.
Do you have any information which would add to or refute the information from Annie Kirkwood, my program of 10-23-94, about the devastating earthquakes in 1995 through the year 2000, the volcanic eruptions, and the Earth polar shift which is supposed to occur then?
No, the telemetry manual does suggest that severe earth changes will happen, but how severe is left unclear, and when is certainly left unclear in terms of any precise time, so...
No, I wouldn't be able to help you on that.
Alright, and finally, from Lawson in San Clemente, Professor, Lawson would like to know if anybody in the religious community has spoken out in support of your work, or has studied your work, or has even commented on your work, one way or the other.
Not in the mainstream reputable scholars.
You can't get them to talk about it.
It's one of those taboo topics.
Almost every one of these heresies is a taboo topic that can't be written about in the New Testament literature.
Even the scholar's literature is radical.
Some of them seem to be to mainstream Christians.
And so if you were to interest someone in this who is a scholar, he wouldn't be able to talk about it with colleagues because they would call him You know, crazy, or up the wall, or on the wall, you know, something like that.
Yes, at least.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Jim Deardorff.
Good evening.
Hello there.
Hello.
Yes, turn your radio off, please.
Turn it off.
Yes.
All right, where are you calling from?
I'm calling Art Bell.
Is it okay?
Yes, where are you calling from?
Oregon.
Oregon.
Okay, what is your question?
I have five points, Joseph of Arimathea and Glastonbury, and Karma is in conflict with the teachings of Christ, and I can say why, and Dead Sea Scrolls and the Life Scores, these would be the physical.
Okay, well I've caught at least three of those, five.
The Talmud Immanuel indicates that Joseph of Arimathea was a key figure in recognizing that he wasn't dead at the crucifixion and therefore getting permission to take him off the cross and take him to his own tomb and then rushing to get some help from actually a couple of fellow friends he knew from India that were in that Jerusalem area.
They were the most skilled being Hindus in the use of herbs and salt.
And so Joseph of Arimathea entered in there, but we don't hear anything more about him after the entombment period.
And so if he went on to Glastonbury or wherever, the Talmud of Immanuel has nothing to say about that.
As to karma, there's quite a few teachings in the Gospel of Matthew that look like Immanuel had taught.
karma and it's certainly in the Talmud of Immanuel.
For those who don't know Jim, what, how would you define, what is karma?
Karma is the Hindu concept that goes along with reincarnation that, it usually does,
that if you do a lot of bad acts through ignorance in this life and don't realize your mistakes
and errors and don't repent, then in some future life you'll have some harsh learning
experiences where you may be subject to similar treatments that you unfairly dealt to others
until you finally do learn your lesson and your conscience gets strong enough to be able
to tell you in future life not to do anything like that again.
Karma has always seemed so unfair to me Jim, in other words, without conscious, underline
the word conscious recollection of any previous life.
To in effect have to pay for what those have done previously seems grossly unfair.
I suppose cosmically somehow it may be fair, but it seems very unfair.
Yes it does, and finally nowadays if one's interested one can undergo past life regression and look into some of your past lives and start studying this and unlock those doors that have been locked for all those lifetimes.
All right.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Jim Deardorff.
Good evening.
Hello.
Hi, Art.
Hello.
Enjoy your show very much.
Thank you.
And Professor Deardorff, I'm enjoying your presentation very much.
And my question is, is there anything in the Talmud of Immanuel that speaks to the Gnostic belief that the agency in the Old Testament wasn't the true God, that he was the demiurge?
Well, yes.
Not really in terms of demiurge, which doesn't get mentioned in the Talmud of Immanuel.
But it suggests that most of the times in the Old Testament where a voice is speaking to some prophet or God or an angel appears in a burning bush, that sort of thing, that this was an extraterrestrial UFO event going on, like the wheels and the wheel seen by Ezekiel and the experiences in that book of the Old Testament.
Does it give us any guidelines as to knowing which Things are on which side?
Because Jesus talked about the Father and obviously Jesus believed that was a good agency and yet there was this demiurge side of things that was an adversary towards mankind.
The Talmud Immanuel would indicate that the Father concept was a concept fed in by the scribe who compiled the Gospel of Matthew to replace the creation idea that was in the Talmud Immanuel with something more familiar to the scribe.
So even that is, of course, heretical and quite different between the two documents.
It would indicate that maybe 85% of what Jesus purports to say in the Gospels weren't his true sayings at all, because they were so often heretical one way or another, they had to be altered.
That's why the scholarly group called the Jesus Seminar, they've come up with a similar conclusion, but They would disagree on which verses are true and which are false relative to the Talmud of Man.
Yes, I think that perhaps bothers me more than anything you've said.
Professor, because I tend to believe it.
In other words, what doesn't fit into mankind's image, or what mankind is not comfortable with, mankind tends to change to fit nicely into the little box that makes him comfortable.
And so I'm terribly afraid that some early scholars may have done exactly that.
That's why we have this contradiction even in the New Testament.
Some places it's mentioning God being a spirit, like in the Gospel of John,
and other places, like in Matthew, that God is pictured as a male, you know, on a throne,
and being sort of a human and not a spirit.
Again, more of an image that we would tend to be comfortable with.
Or an extraterrestrial type image.
Yes.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorff.
Good evening.
Good evening.
This is Heather from Portland, Oregon.
Hello, Heather.
You're going to have to speak up good and loud for us.
Okay.
The question I have for Professor Deardorff is, I read the Talmud of Jejemel, called Immanuel, I guess that's how you're pronouncing it.
I pronounce it Jeugen all the time.
There was a lot of very anti-Jewish, kind of undercurrent, very virulent, I thought, message in that particular book.
Would he have a comment about that?
That's pretty disturbing.
It makes you realize that you don't have to believe anything in the air to be true.
even if you think the Talmud Immanuel is genuine, you don't have to accept any teachings in there
that you don't think are right.
And there are several possible explanations for this.
One is that Immanuel was born in that country and presumably had had past lives as a Jew.
And this is the sort of thing he'd seen going on all this time, terrible,
terrible, what we call it, bad things done from Jewish,
from some Jews upon other Jews and so on.
And he would be totally upset about this.
It would make you wonder if he had been born in a totally different nationality, if he wouldn't have spoken out vehemently about that other country's rulers and countrymen.
But another aspect seems to be that in the Talmud and Manual, he does not condone ignorance.
He thinks the people of Israel themselves, for having accepted false teachings by the Pharisees and scribes, are in store for a lot of bad karma.
And this is something that they'll just have to face up to, and so this is sort of a prophecy sort of thing, that some of this bad language against the Israelites Seems to amount to.
Alright, Professor, on the first time caller line, you're on the air with Jim Deardorff.
Good evening.
Yeah, Art, hi.
Hello.
Joe from Albuquerque.
Hi, Joe.
Good show you got tonight.
And I'd just like to ask your guest one question, and that is if he is familiar with the book Holy Blood, Holy Grail.
Yes, I've read that.
I have that book.
And what is your response to that?
I'll hang up and listen.
Alright Jim, thank you.
It doesn't connect with the Talmud of Immanuel hardly in any way.
It has a lot of interesting stuff about what happened in many centuries after the start of the Christian era and in like 1000 A.D.
and so on in there.
But it just doesn't connect.
It does not relate.
All right.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorff.
Good evening.
Hello there.
No, you're not.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Jim Deardorff.
Hello.
Hi, good evening.
This is Jim in St.
Louis.
Hello, Jim.
Professor Deardorff, thanks for doing the show.
A most interesting discussion.
My question for you was, I'd like for you to tell me what you know about the first council of Nicaea and the editing process that
the Bible went through, specifically regarding the Talmud's teachings of reincarnation and what
is your opinion as to the reasons that these men might have chosen to cut certain things out
of the Bible, whereas just take it at face value?
Take it for what it originally was?
Alright, thank you.
That's an interesting question.
Let's see, when was it?
I think it's actually a 2nd Council of Trent or something.
Rather late, as in 400 or 500 A.D.
That reincarnation was declared an anathema by the church.
I think maybe the first Council of Nicaea was earlier, maybe talking about the Aryan controversy or something.
Anyhow, it was booted out at that time, indicating that there had been a resurgence of the idea of reincarnation amongst certain branches of Christians, and evidently some of these had been followers of the well-known early Christian called Origen.
Why they felt so antagonistic against it is that you just can't have reincarnation be a truth and resurrection both.
The resurrection concept has your soul sort of being born with you at birth and it survives death but then becomes later resurrected not to have any future lives which is quite different from reincarnation.
But Jim, with the installation of the one lie, you then literally had to sit down and modify almost everything else or anything else that was in direct conflict, and there would have been a very great deal in that category.
Correct?
Well, every time reincarnation occurred in the Gnostic documents and so on, very little of those Gnostic documents ever survived.
Some of them were found later, you know, in Upper Egypt in 1940.
All right, Professor, hold it right there.
Professor Emeritus Jim Deardorff.
His book, Celestial Teachings.
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Good evening, my guest is Professor Emeritus Jim Deardorff.
He's here talking about his research and his book, Celestial Teachings.
And we'll get back to the professor in just a moment.
All right, back now to Professor Deardorff.
Professor, are you there?
Yes, hello.
Hi.
All right, here's a couple of questions by fax.
Dear Art, this is really fascinating information, but I'm a little confused about something.
Is Emmanuel another name for Jesus?
Yes, indeed.
It indicates that Emmanuel was his true given name at birth, and You'll find a man with the name Immanuel spelled with a capital I or E in the Gospel of Matthew in the birth story there, but as a fulfillment of the prophecy of Immanuel being born of a maiden or a virgin that's in Isaiah.
And you'll find other verses right before it and afterwards that emphasizes pretty strongly, you know, his name is Jesus.
And it makes you wonder why the writer of Matthew's Gospel One to claim that this was a verification of the Messiah prophecy if the name prophesied was Immanuel.
Alright.
If the name hadn't been Immanuel, he hardly would have stumbled upon that.
So the answer is yes.
Is it purported to have actually been penned by Christ?
Is it telling Immanuel itself?
Yes.
Uh-huh.
Oh, no, that's another long story.
One of his disciples penned it.
Most of it in India, apparently.
And only later, after Emmanuel's death, did his eldest son carry back the long story that several scrolls worth, apparently a copy along with it, back to Palestine.
The copies, one copy was probably distributed around and helped get Gnosticism going, which flourished in the second century.
And the other copy was the one that was encased in rosin and hidden in the original tomb site.
With regard to that one, Professor, was the original Talmud ever carbon dated before it was destroyed?
Oh no, not at all.
It was destroyed, uh, when?
Apparently in 1974.
Okay, so no carbon dating then.
Right, and no photographs of it either, and so, you know, this is nothing a scholar could touch, just the claim of a leaked historical Aramaic document.
All right, and then finally, I've read much of Jesus' travels to India during the missing years, but have never heard about his travels after the crucifixion.
Has Professor Deardorff seen any other documentation on this period?
Yes, actually, that's what I've been looking into most the last three or four years.
Oh, uh, some 15 or so independent little bits of evidence indicating he had been traveling around that area, uh, from Iran, Iraq, eastward Afghanistan, Pakistan, and, uh, Kashmir.
Most of it's in Kashmir, where his tomb is claimed to be.
Uh, it's called the Tomb of Yusuf, and that's another name given to him.
He would have had to travel under different identities, or he'd become known by different names, and, uh, the legend is very strong that this man was the same as Emmanuel or Jesus, partly because of the imprint of
scars on his hands and feet.
Professor Ed in Port Orchard, Washington would like to know how to get hold of you.
Is there a place people can either write or call to talk to you?
Yeah, I could give you my phone number afterwards and my email address.
Why don't you give your email address, for starters, Professor.
What is that?
Okay, it's D-E-A-R-D-O-R-J.
Do that again, please.
D as in dog.
Yes.
D-E-A-R-D-O-R-J.
Okay.
And then the little at symbol.
at?
at ucf.orst.edu okay
uh that's d-e-a-r-d-o-r-j At UCS dot O-R-S-T dot E-D-U.
Yes.
And that is your internet address.
Okay, well that will help some.
I would not advise you to give out a telephone number on the air.
You would live to regret that one, professor.
But maybe there is an address where people could write.
Well, I don't have a P.O.
box, so it would be my home address, but maybe I shouldn't do that.
Yeah, maybe you shouldn't do that is right.
Okay, on the wildcard line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorff.
Hi.
Hello, this is Fernando from KPI Country.
Up in Washington, yes.
Yes, and I wanted to answer some questions that We're asked about this Talmud of Immanuel.
Yes.
First of all, if it is legitimate and that this event that everyone's waiting for to occur in 1995 has to do with a photon belt.
I don't know if you have heard about that.
Yes, actually.
Excuse me?
I have heard of it.
You have heard of it.
And that this knowledge that is coming to humanity is something that has been planned to occur for a long time.
And the opposition, or this knowledge suppressor, which people call the Antichrist, Indeed wouldn't want to have any of this information coming across because it does go against what traditional religion has held to be true.
Jesus was a name given to Emmanuel after his death by Saul of Tarsus.
Yes, I agree there.
That became known as Paul and that the religion Christianity basically right now is the product of Paul rather than the product of Emmanuel.
That's exactly what the Talmud of Emmanuel would lead you to believe.
That Paul started Christianity and the two teachings had to be suppressed as Gnosticism and they all soon got led astray and turned into a lot of extra gibberish added on.
But you asked about the legitimacy of the Talmud Immanuel, and all I can say is everyone has to explore that for themselves.
You're just certainly not going to take any one person's word for it.
I find it legitimate, but that's only because I've studied it carefully after finding the Meyer UFO contacting case legitimate, too, and studying that from 1980 on.
on. You probably wouldn't find the Talmud Immanuel legitimate if you hadn't looked into
the Meyer case earlier, so there's a lot of research that one would have to do there.
Well, the civilization that we have here does have this origin, this genetic origin from
the Pleiades, and humanity hasn't been told that yet either.
So that's going to be real interesting when here in 1995 this information starts to
come out and the ancient records that have to do with papyri and scrolls are brought so that
there's proof that what's being claimed now has documented validity to it.
It'll be interesting to see if anything like that does happen in 1995.
I've seen an awful lot of predictions of things like bad earthquakes that didn't come true, but the idea of The earliest Earthlings coming from the Pleiades is in the midst of quite a few different Indian tribes in the U.S.
like the Cherokees and the Mayans.
And as to the photon belt, that was predicted, as I recall, I think a year and a half ago that was supposed to show up and it didn't show up.
And now I think in another book it's predicted to occur within the next, you know, sometime between now and 1995.
And if anything happens there, I don't know.
Doesn't make too much sense to me.
I think the thing that's going to be most rejected by religions is going to be that Jesus, the man who is called Jesus Christ, whose actual name is Emmanuel, When they attempted to crucify him, that he went into a coma, rather than into death.
That's what the calendar manual says, yeah.
Yes, and that going into that coma state, and them with the technology they had during that time, didn't understand the difference between a state of comatose and a state of death.
And when he was taken down off of a cross, in the state of coma, That they believe with death, that totally invalidates what's being taught by traditional Christianity now.
Yes, I'm pretty well convinced of that.
But let me add that if you look a little bit more into the idea that he did go to India in his youth and learned all about meditation, he could have very well learned about the deepest state of meditation called Samadhi, which is sort of like an out-of-body experience, a very extended one.
So he probably was sort of out-of-body when he was in that comatose state.
Exactly.
All right.
Thank you, caller.
Professor, I must say that I'm pleasantly surprised.
I thought by this time this evening, you would be the one being crucified.
And it has not at all worked out that way.
Well, you just have such nice collars.
That's a fact.
We do.
On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorff.
Hello.
I'm calling from Seattle.
Seattle, yes.
I was wondering, maybe you could cover this a little bit, why this occurred just this one time so long ago, and is the second coming that some people think is going to occur going to be another kind of alien-human mutation, and what the reason behind these two, if there is going to be a second one, these two things happening is?
Alright.
Well I would, I sort of went over the first part of your question earlier that mankind was about ready to get the two teachings so they were tossed out to us through one of our own who was educated himself and went to India to learn those parts of the truth there that he could and got the rest of it from the Pleiadians as a contactee before starting his ministry and after the second coming I don't know anything more about that than basically what the Gospel of Matthew says in chapter 24, although that has some editorial alterations in it from the Talmud of Immanuel, that there will be the second coming, but what will happen then is quite unclear.
All right.
On the toll-free line, you are on the air with Professor Deardorff.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
My name is Carolyn.
I'm calling from Seattle.
Yes.
Okay.
I want to start right here.
I just turned my radio down.
Okay.
I want to say, the people that have been abducted by UFOs, are they any kind of related to Christ?
I want to know, who is the Antichrist?
And, uh, will it be a rapture or anything like that?
And what kind of people will be raptured?
And what personality of these people do you... Have you read about that?
Alright, where does the rapture, uh, fit into all of this, Professor?
Or does it not?
I...
From the Talmud of Emanuel, I wouldn't know that it does fit in the part in the Gospel of Matthew that says one will be taken and one will be left behind in various circumstances.
That has no counterpart in the Talmud of Emanuel.
It seems to be the idea of the scribe who wrote the Gospel of Matthew.
I see.
And whether some will be taken up of the Talmud of Emanuel, leave that open, perhaps something like that might happen.
I don't know.
What about abductees, Professor?
Where do they fit into this picture?
Well, that's totally unclear, too.
There's nothing in the Talmud or the manual that would prepare you for the abduction phenomenon.
So, whether there was the idea that they're hybridizing us so as to have offspring related to themselves that their own spirits can inhabit that would be able to live on Earth after catastrophes, that would perhaps fit in closest to anything because these catastrophes to Earth Are predicted and it's predicted that a large segment of Earth's population actually will die in them.
And so the theory then would be that they are modifying us genetically in order that
there be some survival or continuation of the species.
This is a pre-recorded, pre-recorded...
Yes.
Are you related at all to where this individual, purport to be Christ, living in Britain, is supposed to appear on everyone's TV set at the same time?
Or are you related to, you know, or a follower of L. Ron Hubbard and Dianetics?
Because I think this smacks of Dianetics somehow.
I'm, of course, not related to any of these people.
I vaguely heard of Benjamin Crabbe.
Did you mention Maitreya?
Lord Meritreya.
I think it's Meritreya.
I might be pronouncing it incorrectly.
I was thinking of the Buddhist Bodhisattva Maitreya who's supposed to have his second coming and there's some connections there perhaps that get back to India.
Jesus in India.
Are you familiar with L. Ron Hubbard and the Dianetic Theory?
I've looked into it a little bit.
I do think he had a few little things that he was correct on, reincarnation being one of them, but I wouldn't go along with much of the rest.
All right.
So no direct connection there anyway?
No.
Okay.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorff.
Hi.
Good evening, sir.
Good evening.
You mentioned that you have translated some of the book of Matthew, but not all.
My specific question is on Matthew 13 and some of the parables of Jesus Christ.
Specifically, Matthew 13, verse 37, where the parable of the good seed and the Son of Man is explained in private to the disciples.
In the Talmud of Immanuel, that parable is in there, the sowing of the seed, that the various seed lands and the hard rocks are finally in the good soil, but the explanation for it is not there in the Talmud of Immanuel, as I recall, and certainly nothing about evildoers being tossed into the furnace of fire and stuff.
Well, the field, there is two, and then the field being the world and the good seed, And then those are the children of the kingdom.
And then the tares are the children of the wicked one.
And the enemy that sowed them is the devil.
The concept of the devil doesn't appear in the Talmud Immanuel.
That is very much the writer of the Gospel of Matthew's idea.
It appears sprinkled all over the Gospel.
But that same parable is in the Talmud Immanuel to indicate that those who are far enough along to be able to accept the teaching,
would be able to accept it and for them the beneficial aspects would be as if things have
multiplied many fold.
The word Talmud, what does that translate mean?
I think it's a, when I look it up, it's a Jewish word that goes back even before the
Talmud of Babylonia to have the meaning, original meaning in Aramaic or Hebrew of teachings
received by a disciple.
So, this would be teachings received by the disciple who wrote the Talmud of Immanuel, detailing Immanuel's experiences and teachings.
Alright, we've got about a minute.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorff.
Hi.
Good evening, this is Fred from Phoenix.
Well, Jim, it's time that you came on Dreamland.
Dreamland has made a full circle now.
You let the cat out of the bag.
Fantastic.
With your research on Bill and Maya.
And let's go a little step farther.
The books of Abraham, Moses, Muhammad, and Joseph Smith will also be rewritten, and that will be a fact.
And now, Jim, why don't you tell them the rest of the story about Emmanuel, that he has already recycled?
Are you aware of it?
I'm aware that he has probably had different past lives and perhaps a future life or two between then and now.
Is that what you mean?
I assume that is what he means, yes.
There's no way of proving any of that, and I think it's just conjecture to say that so-and-so has been his past life, even if he had been told that from one of his kid in contact.
All right.
Professor, on that note, stand by.
We'll be back to you.
Professor Emeritus Jim Deardorff is my guest.
We'll be back.
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area code.
Now again, here's Art Bell.
Now again, here I am.
My guest is Professor Jim Deardorff, Professor Emeritus.
The discussion circulating around his book, Celestial Teachings, and we'll get back to him in just a moment.
Professor Deardorff, are you there?
Hello again.
Alright.
I would like to read this to you and let's see how you answer it.
This comes from Lawson.
In San Clemente, as you know, despite Sean Morton's defense of Billy Meyer, a major and respected segment of the UFO community has rejected Meyer as a hoax, and has repudiated him with some pretty convincing evidence, which I've seen firsthand.
I think it would be intriguing if you could maneuver Professor Deardorff into a discussion of his support of Billy Meyer, in light of the suspicious nature of Meyer himself.
What do you say to that?
Well, you know, it would be a separate three-hour program at least to go over the Meyer evidence, the photographs and
the movie film.
Out of 500, 700 relevant photos having UFOs in them, there's bound to be several photographs that have questionable
aspects to them.
And what you have to realize is that everyone indicates a UFO is partially a clip behind a tree that's not a model
tree, and if a tree in the distance is indicative of a large
object out there, in terms of nothing that a photographer could have hoaxed
through any means available in 1975, you know, those computer techniques weren't available then.
The fact that Meyer case is rejected by the Spokesman for most of the main UFO organizations is not surprising because they reject all contactees as being hoaxers or mistaken people.
It was only since about 1985 that the UFO organization came to realize that there were so many abductees around that they had to consider them as genuine and start studying them seriously.
But they continue to reject the contactees because they've received more normal or favorable treatment from the ETs in comparison to the abductees, and it just makes better press to think that those that are being anxious over their treatment may be more truthful than those who've received better treatment.
All right, and from Tom in Portland, Oregon, how does Dr. Deardorff relate current animal mutilations and crop circles Not really with the Meyer case, per se.
It doesn't have anything to say.
Linda Howe, as you know, reports on animal mutilations. Are they connected?
Not really with the Meyer case, per se. It doesn't have anything to say.
Well, it has a few things to say about animal mutilation or about crop circles, anyhow.
But I believe this is misinformation that the plebeians are giving Meyer, and Meyer believes it.
Information he's gotten since 1989 indicates that crop circles are all hoaxes, essentially.
Sort of the impression one gets reading his later contacts.
And he propagates this on believing it's true, and in my own opinion, it's not true.
There's ample evidence that most of them are genuine, and same with the animal mutilations.
So I think the Pleiadians are adding their own Chris to the Mill Hill, giving reason why skeptics can continue to reject the Meyer case, just so that he won't be turned into any giant guru and start a new religion or anything like that, or that they'll be treated as gods and goddesses again, and the Pleiadians themselves.
I can see this as a motivation why they would try to help discredit their own contactees.
All right, on the toll-free line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorff.
Good evening.
Good evening.
Do you totally disbelieve the teachings of the Bible, and what made you get into the studies of this document?
All right, good question.
It was the Talmud Immanuel itself that got me started looking into this, and then I suddenly realized that, well, everyone's got to start looking into this for themselves.
Why should I just accept what one minister or pastor tells me?
When there's all these other major religions in the world, and all their hundreds of millions of people that believe just what they're told in their traditions.
Let me rephrase his question, or repeat it rather.
Do you totally disbelieve the teachings of the Bible?
No, I think there's a lot of truth in various parts, but you have to hunt and select for the truth, and that's where everyone will be bound to go astray, like I believe in the Golden Rule.
That's in Matthew 7, 12, I believe it is.
Well, of course, it's in the Talmud Immanuel, too.
But many scholars think that the Golden Rule is something that was fed in at a later date and was never spoken by Jesus or Immanuel.
All right.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorff.
Hi.
Hi.
This is Kristana in Seattle.
Welcome to the program.
Thank you.
Hi.
Hi.
I'm just wondering if people could write you in care of your publisher?
Yes, that's a good idea.
I was going to try to get that in.
Didn't get to slip it in on time.
Alright, why don't we repeat the telephone number and an address where they could write, Professor.
Wildflower Press, the telephone number 1-800-366-0264.
Alright, and an address?
All right, and an address?
Post Office Box 726 Newberg, Oregon.
That's Newberg, N-E-W-B-E-R-G.
Oregon, that's O-R-9-7-1-3-2.
Okay, that's Post Office Box 726, Newberg, N-E-W-B-E-R-G, Oregon, 9-7-1-3-2.
And those letters would get to you?
They would get forwarded to me and you could even I've been listening to the show with much interest.
I've been listening to the show with much interest.
About 1980 I met Bill Jenkins who was the talk show host of Open Line on KABC.
And he loaned me a copy of some auto writings that he did.
And in them your show is bringing some of it back from memory.
He wrote that Mary was transported to a spaceship and she was artificially inseminated to create a very strong body for Jesus.
That the spirit that inhabited him originally was not Jesus.
That Jesus' spirit Did enter that body when he was baptized in the in the water and the reason for dunking him under the water is that the energy of his spirit was so strong that it would do damage to the people who were around unless the exchange took place underwater and I've got it packed somewhere and I don't know where if I had it at hand I would send a copy to you.
Well tell me the manual uh It doesn't say anything definite about how Mary was impregnated.
Presumably it was some sort of immaculate conception in some technical E.T.
way we wouldn't begin to understand, but perhaps she was abducted to do it, I don't know.
Well, this was just what, as I'm remembering, of course this was back in 1980, which was several years ago that I read it.
This was through an automatic writing, was it?
Yes, because I understood someone was channeling through him and he did this at a typewriter.
And there were other subjects that were covered, but that's what's coming to my memory tonight.
The Talmud of Immanuel would indicate that the baby born in Bethlehem had his same spirit from then on that entered his body and he never had an exchange of spirits during any baptism or anything.
Well, that's just what happened to be what was in this document that Bill Jenkins wrote.
Yeah, well, there's a lot of channelings that come through, and some claim that Emanuel wasn't a theme, and that that isn't borne out by Talmud Emanuel.
Some would say that he married Mary Magdalene or something, and that isn't borne out by Talmud Emanuel either.
Although it has Emanuel getting married later in life maybe at age 40 or so in India to some Indian woman and having several children and the oldest child being the one that after he died carried back the writings, Talbot Emanuel all the way back to Palestine.
Well, I just thought it was an interesting coincidence that I had read this document many years ago.
It is.
And listening to your show tonight.
It is.
Thank you very much for that.
Interesting, Professor, a lot of support for what you've said coming from all kinds of different sources.
Yeah, I think channeling has that purpose.
We hardly know what the sources are, whether they're spirit voices...
or at the top of the board who could walk but they seem to flip in the field
with the so advanced information we might not have thought much about
the thing to and uh...
they're later born out to be true but then they have to give a lot of
misinformation along with it so that we won't have come to rely on them for all
our thinking moves all right on the toll-free line you're on the air
without a whole lot of time left in the program unfortunately uh...
welcome to the show Hi, um, calling from Anchorage.
Anchorage, Alaska.
Yes, sir.
I listen to the program, and I've been reading a book, William Brambley, a book by the name of The Gods of Eden.
And in that, I also have another one called The Other Bible.
And it brought reference to the Apocrypha, the Christian Apocrypha, which speaks of Jesus' earlier life, his journeys over to the East.
And I just was curious if your guest there was familiar with either William Bramley or the material I just spoken about.
If I have William Bramley's book, Gods of Eden, is it?
He does blame about all wars, all wars on earth that have been caused by extraterrestrials.
One way or another, and I don't really go along with that.
I think human beings have enough problems with them that they're able to start their own wars.
We certainly have done very well in that category.
And at the Apocrypha, I'm not aware of that they themselves, well, I guess the Acts of Thomas gives some glimpse of Jesus being in India, but it's mostly Thomas, Judas Thomas being there.
after the crucifixion years and that would be borne out.
It's as if someone tried to write it out and put it in a very sort of a Christian context,
but tried to squeeze in little bits of truth so that it might get through and not be just totally destroyed as a
bad Gnostic document.
All right, wild card line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorff, good evening.
Hi, I was wondering if Professor Deardorff or you have ever heard of anything such as Frack,
magazine?
Or any of the publications about hackers getting into the United States?
Excuse me.
United States of Ameri... The United States... Oh, God, how should I put this?
The United States of Paranet, which is the U.S.
government's computer network office of the Internet.
I was wondering if you have heard of any hackers hacking into that and any of their stories about how some of the U.S.
technology... No, and what does this have to do with the subject we're discussing?
So actually I've never even heard of this crack magazine, but anyone who wants to tune
right into the internet and tune into their alternate UFO section can say whatever they
want of course and everyone's free then to read it and comment upon it.
You don't have to be a hacker for that.
Uh huh.
Toll free line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorff.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
Oh is that me?
Well I don't know.
You would be the one.
Okay, I wasn't sure if I was up or not.
Alright, I was going to say, an idea somebody told me about as far as how Mary was impregnated.
She was raped by a Roman guard.
Raped by a Roman guard.
Well that certainly does not, is not in line with what is in the Talmud, is that correct?
That's correct, but it's one of the stories that I've heard of that's gone around.
Right, and another thing too, I'm not trying to be an unfriendly card, but I was wondering, do you have a speech impediment or, I mean as far as, like a lot of times when you're saying it, it seems like maybe what you're saying may not be true because you start to like stutter or hesitate and I'm not all that good a speaker, that's why I concentrate on writing a few books or two.
It's easier for me to try to put across ideas that way.
Right.
Right.
Is that it, caller?
Yeah, that's about it.
Alright, thank you.
On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorff.
Hello.
Hello, this is Ron from Bellevue.
And, um, first time call, of course.
I've been listening to the professor, and, uh, he mentioned the word heresies, and I think that's exactly what he's doing.
It's spreading heresies.
Uh, I would like to ask him, number one, uh, do you expect us to believe that the Romans, who were expert at death, don't know a dead man when they see one?
Uh, two, how would Jesus have, uh, We moved the stones after three days.
Alright, well, let's hold it there.
Well, I don't even know that we're still that expert in modern day with regard to death.
So, with regard to the Romans knowing death when they see it, what would you say, Professor?
According to the Talmud Immanuel, this fierce thrust did occur that has a verse about that in the Gospel of John.
evidently the writer John and Luke also had a brief glimpse at this Talmud Immanuel
and couldn't do much with it because it was so full of heresies but that got into the Gospel of
John and it would appear that when he was in his out-of-body state I read up on this and they say
you don't feel any pain at all to your body when you're in the out-of-body state and that
such a thing needn't drive you back into the body and so in that condition if he didn't
against any physical flinching or anything it's only natural that the Roman guard would have
considered him to be dead.
Although he might have wanted when he saw blood come out, but a corpse isn't supposed to bleed, so he was sort of remiss in that respect probably.
What about the removal of the stone?
Well, it's sort of like in the Gospel of Matthew, there was this extraterrestrial in the tomb of Emmanuel that did come down there and he was the one who rolled the stone away and just to show the two Marys that were there that the tomb was empty and that Emmanuel had survived the crucifixion as he had prophesied he would after three days and nights.
Alright.
But it wasn't Jesus or Emmanuel rolling the stone away.
All right.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with, uh, would have been with Professor Deardorff.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air.
Good, uh, evening.
Good evening, Ark.
Professor, my wife was Taylor Carlisle.
She's written several books, one about St.
Paul, one about St.
Luke, and we're on the Mary book when she died, and she also did one on Judas, but we are familiar with it.
Jesus was educated in Egypt, of course.
Joseph of Arimathea, her uncle, And also took him to India and Persia.
And in India they were going to assassinate him because he was also being friendly with the lower caste.
And the bombers were going to assassinate him.
But have you heard that also, that there was some talk that he was also in North America because the Indians talked to them there about a white prophet or something way back?
We had another caller who had about the same question about the North America part.
Hi, thank you.
I'm anxious to get on.
my own knowledge connects with that. Actually, I tell them Emanuel doesn't say he was in
Egypt either except for that brief flight when he was just an infant with Mary and Joseph.
All right. On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Professor Deardorff.
Hi. Hi. Thank you. You're welcome. I'm anxious to get on.
You're on. Yes. I hope I make it.
You're on.
Oh, thank you.
Yes, go ahead, sir.
Thank you.
What is the meaning of the animosity between Judaism, Christianity and other world religions?
And secondly, in your opinion, guess what is the final result intended?
Thank you.
All right.
Well, the animosity between Jews and Christians sort of developed naturally when Christianity evolved from Paul's teachings and the Jews that did convert to Christianity were pretty darn disappointed that a lot more other Jews didn't convert, but just stayed with their strict Judaism.
So this was one of the problems.
Some of the Gentiles were easier to convert than the Pagans.
Now, as to the last part of your question, maybe Art can rephrase it.
Well, no, I don't know that I fully understood it myself, so I really can't.
Okay, I have problems with that.
Yeah, you do, huh?
Okay, on the wildcard line, very little time.
You're on the air with Professor Deardorff.
Yes, would Professor Deardorff be kind enough to give to the listening audience The Lord's Prayer, according to the Talmud of Immanuel, is given on page 121 of his book, and also comment on 1 Chronicles 29... Well, alright, we're into too much of a serious question there.
What difference is there in the Lord's Prayer, Professor?
There is a lot of difference.
I was looking at this page... Okay, we're way out of time, so...
I'm afraid, I'm afraid we'll just have to, uh, it'll have to suffice by saying it's a letter.
Just say there's a parallel to it, and then tell the manual it's a prayer to one's spirit.
Alright, Professor, we're out of time.
Uh, I want to thank you for being on the program, and, um, it was, uh, it was a fascinating session, and we will do this again sometime, but we're flat out of time, gotta go.
Okay, thanks a lot, Art.
Professor, thank you.
And with regard to the person who asked about his speech patterns, I think that's more of a revelation about the ignorance of the caller.
Thank you all, and we'll be back next Sunday with another Dreamland.
thank you all and from the high desert, good night.
This has been Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor
neatly put in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not that.
Yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
Please join us again next week at this time for Dreamland.
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