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Sept. 18, 1994 - Art Bell

02:09:53

Dreamland with Art Bell - The Nature of Souls and Spirits - David Scott

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01:23:45

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Broadcast Program Welcome to Dreamland.
unidentified		This is a pre-recorded, previously broadcast program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Dreamland.
unidentified		Good evening, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's Sunday evening.
		Welcome to another Dreamland.
		I'm Art Bell, and there's a bunch of news to catch you up on and a couple of programming notes, and we'll launch as usual with Linda Howe this evening, parked in Denver, Colorado.
		First, though, I would like to welcome to the Dreamland group, KTUCAM, in Tucson, Arizona.
		KTUC, one of the regular affiliates on the syndicated program, now joining Dreamland.
		Welcome Tucson.
		And the person who had most to do with that, I guess, Mike Gabrielson, who is the program director at KTUC.
		Good to be in Tucson now with Dreamland.
		Also, WAIVFM, the station manager there, Richard Parker, in Peru, Illinois.
		So Richard, thank you for getting us on in Peru, Illinois.
		Welcome to those two of it.
		Now totaling 75 as Dreamland continues to grow, racing toward kind of a catch-up, I guess, in the number of affiliates with our regular syndicated program.
		Now, just, I guess, moving away from our usual topic for just a moment, for those of you that have not heard it, I would like to announce there has been an apparent agreement of some sort with regard to Haiti.
		Colin Powell, Jimmy Carter, and Sam Nunn, as you know, were in Haiti trying some last-minute bargaining with the military dictators there.
		This has apparently been successful, and an invasion which actually had already been ordered with airplanes in the air and all the rest of it, averted at the last minute.
		U.S. troops will enter Haiti tomorrow at about noontime under the auspices of U.N. Resolution 940-940, and hopefully there will be a peaceful entry into Haiti.
		Now, that is problematic.
		The dictators have agreed to step down, but apparently do not necessarily, though they may, leave Haiti.
		If there is to be violence in Haiti, there may be violence at the announcement of the dictators giving up power.
		So all of this is news.
		We will continue to monitor, but there will not be an immediate invasion.
		There will rather be an orderly entry, they say, of U.S. troops into Haiti later on tomorrow, beginning at about noontime.
		Most of the national news will be covering that event.
		That would be noontime, I suppose, East Coast time.
		So that is the status.
		Haiti, we will not be going on live at the 11 o'clock hour because of this, and we will be catching you up on it on another syndicated program tomorrow.
		That is breaking news, and I wanted all of you to get it.
		Now, for Dreamland, let us go all the way to Denver, Colorado.
		Actually, not as far as we usually go, to find Linda Howe, who's doing who knows what in Denver, but has a report for us.
		So Linda Howe, good evening to you.
unidentified		Hi, Ark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I'm glad to hear that a nonviolent solution appears to be in the works for Haiti.
unidentified		That is good news.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it would seem, Linda, yes.
unidentified		And I am in Colorado, where I spoke at the International Forum on New Science in Fort Collins this weekend.
		Subjects range from healing and free energy research to unexplained phenomena, including crop circles, animal mutilations, and the human abduction syndrome.
		Many people were talking about the question, what evidence is there that human abduction involves physical non-human entities from some origin instead of mental hallucinations?
		And the fact is, and has been reported by several human abduction research in the last two or three years, is that one out of four people in the abduction syndrome remember full conscious encounters with non-human beings.
		One such abductee is a Colorado woman that I interviewed today who has seen non-human creatures in her apartment.
		She desires to remain anonymous but has agreed to share her experience with our dreamland listeners, and I'd like to play an excerpt from that interview now.
		1993, it was in spring, March or April.
		I was getting ready to go to bed, turn out all the lights except the one I always go through right by the entrance to my apartment.
		Lay down and from where my bed is, I can see into the living room and through the candlelight through.
		And I was startled because right as I messed up, there was these three real short little beans near the door to my bedroom that was open.
		And these scenes were so small, the top of their heads just went to like the door handle about three feet.
		Like that.
		And they looked like babies.
		And I'm thinking, my God, these were like little white babies.
		And I didn't see the eyes of the face.
		The minute I saw them, I couldn't move.
		And like by my bed and everything, I couldn't even reach, put my arm outside the bed to grab it.
		I mean, I was just startled.
		If my mom had a peer in my bedroom, I still would have been startled that time of the night.
		And I remember I couldn't move, and I was telling myself, you will remember, you will remember.
		And I was trying to, I was looking at their torso.
		And I was trying, like, okay, I cannot move, but I'm going to remember everything about you or whoever you are.
		And their skin was like onion skin.
		I mean, it's almost like if you see someone's fingerprint, you can see the lines in there.
		You could actually see the texture.
		And their skin seemed so thin, but it reminded me like a fingerprint or onion skin.
		And it was so white.
		It was almost like there was a light inside them.
		It was so bright from the tree.
		And that's all I remembered at all.
		They must have gotten close to you for you to see something when they passed them.
		Oh, they were coming straight towards me.
		When I saw them at the door, and I could see the height right there, I mean, they did not, they just kept coming.
		And when I was shocked, when I saw them, I tried to move to grab my gun because I was startled, like, what is this, or who's in my room?
		And immediately, as I had visual contact, I immediately could not move.
		And that's why I told myself, okay, you've done something to me where I can't move.
		But it's kind of like trying to remember someone who's mugging you, trying to get a good description.
		Except I didn't look up and saw the eyes of the face.
		I only could concentrate on their tussle because it was just a matter of seconds.
		They were coming so fast.
		And I remember little, tiny, tiny, thin, long arms.
		Now, to listeners listening to this, they may think, this is a scary story.
		But you're still here.
		Now, what would you say to the listeners now?
		You've had multiple encounters with something that you would consider to be non-human, right?
		Right, definitely.
		And it's happened since you were a child, and you are still here.
		What is your sort of residue now from a life of interaction with something we're all trying to understand that's not human?
		What do you feel that they want from you?
		I feel like I'm being studied by not one, but several different groups.
		It's almost like, okay, what did this group do?
		Let's go see.
		And I feel like, well, at times, like a lab mouse with no say-so, no clear answers.
		But some groups, it seems like they're more interested in human emotions, how people react to certain situations.
		Some, it's physical, physical examination.
		Do you think that this is anything to be actually afraid of?
		I guess it's a human thing.
		It must be because spiritually I feel like I'm tied into God and things like that.
		But each time you're abducted, you don't get self-assured.
		It's not like, okay, I've been abducted several times.
		I'm coming back.
		I'm going to be okay.
		Each time they take you, you wonder if you're ever coming back.
		Because there's nothing you guarantee.
	They don't talk to you.
	They don't tell you, it's okay.
	We're just taking you for this and this, and we'll bring you back.
	It's the most isolated, loneliness feeling any person can experience because you're an environment that is somewhere else that you can't do anything about.
	You wouldn't know where you're at or how it works.
	You just know one minute you see something, they're taking you through the doors, taking you through the walls, through the windows.
	You feel relieved when you're returned, but you're traumatized when you're returned, but usually there's no big time, right?
	Not always.
	Not always.
	It depends if you're looking at a clock or a watch, you know, if you can keep track of it.
	Now, in terms of people who are hearing about the abduction syndrome and conferences in which there are discussions with abductees and with researchers and investigators, if you were personally, from the basis of multiple interactions with this,
	whatever the non-human intelligence or non-human intelligences are, were to just speculate on how things might unfold in the future about whether we're going to have some kind of public interaction, what would you speculate?
	I think this is going to continue to increase.
	Leading up to...
	I think one day they will make themselves known.
	I think one day you're going to look outside and the sky is going to be filled with crap.
	And others feel that they can discuss encounters like this with investigators totally off the record and confidence.
	And then all of us are gaining, I think, more insight to the fact that this is not simply a mental experience.
	There are too many people who are reporting absolutely concrete something that they're interacting with.
	And that is part of, I think, why we all continue to try to monitor the abduction syndrome.
	Because if she's right, if someday the skies are going to be filled with discs, as many abductees have said, the world better be a little more up to speed than it is now on the fact that we're not alone in the universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it seems as though most UFO investigators are now beginning to follow the abductions as the best path to trying to figure out what's going on here.
unidentified		Great.
unidentified		And I thought that she was especially honest and especially summarizing in so many of the other people's experiences that I've had conversations with at so many people, even anonymously, they still don't want to discuss anything in public.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Linda, where will you be next week?
unidentified		Next weekend, I should be back in Philadelphia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, back home finally.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, wonderful.
		Well, thank you for the report.
		She was emotional.
		She did sound very straight to me, Linda.
		It was a good report.
		I appreciate it.
unidentified		Yeah, and next week we'll go on to some other topics, and I'm sure glad we're not going into some military situation in Haiti.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cross our fingers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Linda.
unidentified		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		I don't know that we're not going into, quote, a situation.
		We are going into one, but it is not going to be as, at least at the very moment they hit the shores, as contentious as it might have been.
		So we'll be examining this whole question of what's going on with Haiti over the next 24 hours, and no doubt talking about it on the syndicated program.
		In a moment, David Scott, I think you'll find him a fascinating guy, will be talking about life after death.
		I think Mike Rigby is David's mentor and helped bring him here, and I think you're going to enjoy it, and we'll get to David Scott in just a moment.
		I want all of you to listen to me very closely if you've got any savings, money kicking around, extra money.
		A sense of humor and perspective are what is needed to get through this life, according to David.
		He's a musician, songwriter, author, philosopher, student of quantum physics, and seeker after spiritual truth.
		All these things and more are parts that make David who and what he is, a human being like any other, trying to get through life and make some sense out of it all besides.
		Author of the soon-to-be-released book, Way of the Ultimate Warrior, David stresses the importance of creating a solid, spiritual foundation in one's life as a way to battle many obstacles and challenges that one faces as they sojourn upon the earth.
		Understanding the varying degrees of spirituality and beliefs of others, David focuses on principles that will surely assist anyone desiring to create their own heaven on earth while all around them there is chaos.
		David has studied all his adult life the many and varied religious beliefs of the world in his search for the truth.
		He has learned there is a common link between all of them, the reality of the spirit of man.
		He has learned too that spirituality and science are now beginning to merge together in quantum physics.
		His studies in the field have confirmed his belief the universe is not an accident, that there is an intelligent design behind it.
		His studies at Brigham Young University were heavy on music, philosophy, and religion.
		Not content with the rigid environment found within a university setting, David set off on his own to explore this life, to discover the truth to be found in it.
		He was not disappointed in his search.
		He said, quote, I haven't found or learned all there is to know and learned concerning the Spirit and its relationship to eternity.
		But I have learned for sure that we continue to live after this life and that this life really isn't what it appears to be.
		There is definitely something going on bigger than we can possibly imagine.
		Because of David's understanding regarding the spiritual nature of life, Mike Rigby, publisher of the popular book Life in the Unseen World, and a guest here, asked that he share the story behind his newest release, Heavenly Ways of Earth's Graduates.
		The true story of three Allied soldiers killed in World War I who were actually permitted to return and report their experiences and share their insights.
		Wow.
		As to most of those living still on Earth, he says it's an exciting opportunity.
		I'm sure it is.
		There's a lot to find out about a man named David Scott, so let's go find it out, shall we?
		David, welcome to the program.
		Thank you, Lord.
		I'm happy to be here.
		That's quite an introduction.
		I'm glad you sent that to me.
		I was kind of curious about what approach you were going to take, David.
		You are convinced, are you not, there is a life that follows this one, some sort of consciousness?
		Oh, yes, there's most certainly a life after this existence here on Earth.
		Most certainly.
		Well, I know that you concur with others that I have interviewed that the life after this one will occur in spiritual planes.
		Is that correct?
		Yes, it is correct.
		See, what happens, Art, is that we come to this earth to learn as much as we can, pretty much to understand how to live by faith, how to create, how to use our thought and everything like that.
		Depending on what we do in this life, will determine the quality of life that we have after we leave this life.
		Interesting.
		David, did you see a movie called Defending Your Life?
		That's a wonderful movie.
		Wonderful movie.
		Is anything like that, do you suppose?
		Well, Defending Your Life, Albert Brooks was great in that movie.
		That movie, Albert Brooks is killed, and he is brought to Judgment City, and he is forced to sit there in what he felt was a judgment session, reviewing areas of his life.
		And in that movie, he was seeing something like nine or ten hours of his life, or days of his life, where they determined the amount of fear that he demonstrated throughout his life.
		That's right.
		And in the course of The movie, certain principles came out that much in your life has to do with how you relate to fear, how you react to certain situations, and what you do to overcome that fear.
		And that in a certain way is true.
		In other ways, there are the things in there that are purely theatrical.
		Of course.
		But, I mean, you could almost describe where he was in that movie as a spiritual plane, middle ground of some kind.
		And is that what you feature we will go to?
		Well, we go to, Dr. Tenvart, when you die, you'll, for instance, I guess everyone's now familiar with Theta Edie's book, Embraced by the Light.
		Absolutely.
		And she experienced the opportunity to go to a plane of existence that is far higher than what others have described in their experiences.
		She says she actually met Christ and was permitted to tour around the universe, so to speak, and see all the creations of God.
		And in that setting there, she was able to, as she called it, a life review.
		And this is the interesting thing that I thought was fascinating, because it's just not her that was relating this story about the life review.
		It was many others where she said that not only does she have the opportunity to see her life, but she had the opportunity to view it from the perspective of the individual that she was relating with at the time.
	For instance, if you hurt someone's feelings, not only were you able to see you hurting that person's feelings, but you were also able to feel how that person felt when their feelings were hurt.
	So we will be exposed to ourselves.
	That is, it's going to be some sort of mirror of review of what we have done.
	We're going to see, we're going to, it's going to call to our attention everything we've ever said, everything we've ever thought, everything we ever did in life.
	There are no secrets hidden.
	Wow.
	All right, David, we're at the bottom of the hour, so rest for a moment.
	We'll come back and get much deeper into this.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, David Scott is my guest from, I believe, probably, well, I guess up in the Salt Lake City area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we're talking about life after death, what it's going to be like, what's up there, what we can expect.
unidentified		What's up there?
		This is a pre-recorded, previously broadcast program.
		You're here in Greenland with Art Bell.
		To participate in the program, call toll-free, 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
		Or the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is.
		Hi, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Engrossed right up until program time here.
		It was a little confusing with the situation going on in Haiti, but again, there is a tentative, perhaps tentative is the wrong word to use, an agreement with regard to what's going on in Haiti.
		Back now to David Scott.
		And David, I would say that life after death or the possibility of it has been an abiding, deep interest of mine.
		It's one of the things that provoked this program.
		And I would ask you, how you know?
		You apparently know, so how do you know?
		What proof would you cite, the best proof that exists that there is life after death, that there are these planes of existence that we do come back again?
		Well, you know, aside from the fact of the many accounts, for instance, Dr. Raymond Moody's in-depth studies in his book, Life After Life and More Life After Life, and other credible people such as Dr. George Ritchie, in his book, Return from Tomorrow.
		My own personal experiences, not that I have to say right at the beginning, I myself have never had a near-death experience, but I've had many experiences dealing with the spirit, personal experiences of the nature of you can't deny them.
		And as for myself, I know that there is a life after death, that there is something far more greater waiting for the human being than people can ever possibly imagine in their hearts or minds.
		In the movie we mentioned a little while ago, one of the questions he asked was, is there a hell?
		And the answer was, no, not really, but L.A. is getting pretty close.
		That's the truth.
		And so I would ask you very much the same sort of question.
		Is there, in your view, a hell?
		Well, you know, as you're probably well aware, there are millions of people throughout the world who believe that there is.
		And that they believe that if you don't do certain things in this life, you won't go to heaven, but you'll go to hell.
		Now, I personally believe, after countless years and hours of study on the subject, yes, there is a hell, but let me explain that.
		There are different spheres of existence in the spiritual realm.
		Many people have said who have gone there and seen them suggest that there are seven spheres of existence.
		There are three below and four higher.
		And the lower spheres, or the darker realms, constitute what is hell.
		Now, I just finished reading a book called Wanderer in Spirit Lands.
		Briefly, it's an account of an individual from Italy who died and was permitted to return, and he had a hell experience.
		Yes, they're not very widely publicized, David, but I was going to bring that up.
		There are a number of people who have had NDEs and claim quietly, as you can imagine they would, they went instead to a hell.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just completed a book a friend of mine suggested to me.
		It's called To Hell and Back by a man who actually died and went to hell called Dr. Maurice H. Rawlings.
		And his book, I wouldn't really highly recommend it because it doesn't go into the depth that you would think it would.
		It has an agenda to it, and his agenda in the book is to literally scare the hell out of you.
		But he describes several instances where people died, and instead of waking up in a brilliant paradise pasture, they were in hell.
		And their experience so terrified them that they wouldn't talk about it.
		When they got back in their bodies, there was one instance on the operating table, the guy was resuscitated, and he begged the doctors, don't let me die.
		Don't let me die.
		I am in hell.
		And, you know, that sort of experience lets you understand that what we do here is so much the more important.
		Well, it does put that slant on it, yes.
		What is the best description you've heard of what hell may be?
		I mean, surely people have told us, have they not?
		Well, from what I've been able to gather was that hell is a very dark land.
		And just as there are several levels of the upper realms, there are several levels of the darker realms.
		Darker realms.
		And the book I just mentioned, Wandering Spirit Land, he describes having gone to the darker realms, but there were still realms below him.
		And he said that there was literally a ring of fire around the lowest realm.
		Fire.
		Uh-huh.
		This isn't the traditional lake of fire and brimstone he's referring to.
		It's a barrier, where ones from higher realms can pass through to it, but those on the other side of it can't pass beyond that barrier.
		All right.
		Where do spirits fit into this?
		And by that I mean spirits.
		For example, I've got some photographs, David, of what I believe to be ghosts.
		Right.
		Now, where do ghosts fit in?
		Are ghosts people that simply have not gone to any spirit realm at all and are somehow trapped here?
		Or is in fact this earth a spirit realm?
		Yes, that's very true.
unidentified		This earth itself is a spirit realm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see, as it's described, if you remember when Mike was on your radio show, he talked about Life in the World and Scene, where Hugh Benson described that in concentric circles around the earth are realms of spirituality.
		That's right.
		And that the ones closest to the earth were the darker realms.
		People who have seen ghosts, yes, I believe that there are spirits trapped here on earth, and what traps them here is their unwillingness to give up the temporal cravings, the appetites that we are all endowed with, that they are still attached to the things of this earth.
		Okay, well, that implies some kind of choice.
		Yes.
		And a lot of ghost stories and spirit stories seem connected to people who die violently, or people who die at a very bad moment and have unrequited love, or some tremendously emotionally important thing that was going on when they died.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this is very true.
		Many people who do die of a violent nature, let's say they were murdered, they're so full of rage that someone would actually take their life that their entire being is filled with revenge.
		And they will do whatever.
		And let me say here, Art, it's very possible for a spirit to interfere with your life.
		A spirit from the darker realms is quite capable of interfering with your life.
		Without your ongoing knowledge that that is occurring, I mean, you're just sitting there saying, God, I've really had some bad luck here in life.
		And it's very possible.
		Now, you see, again, though, I have to say here, that if you are being challenged by a spirit from a dark realm, it's because of your choices that you've made.
		If you're so focused on spiritual matters and if you pursue a spiritual path, you're protected from these things yourself by your own will, you see.
		But most people, they seem to live their lives in such a way as to negate any possibility of a hereafter or a life after death or any consequences thereafter or any blessings thereafter.
		And we merrily go along with the flow.
		David, let me ask you about the nature of the soul, since it is apparently the thing that traverses from one existence to another.
		Is it?
		Yes, it is.
		There were some very early studies that I just can't shake from my mind, David, regarding people who died and were actually measured with regard to weight and actually were measured to have had their weight changed at the very moment of death.
		And there was no other explanation anybody could give other than that it was the soul.
		Yes.
		The spirit.
		It's essential to understand that spirit is matter.
		It's a refined form of matter, But matter nevertheless.
		Is it matter in the sense it is energy?
		Well, energy is matter, matter is energy.
		But the thing is that the soul, the spirit, is actually a refined, it's refined matter, and it vibrates at a higher frequency than your physical body.
		If you consider everything around you is one huge vibration.
		Everything in the universe vibrates at some sort of level.
		And as I've discovered and as are related in Life in the World Unseen and Heavenly Ways of Earth's Graduate, they talk a great deal about the vibrational level of an individual.
		And so, yes, when a spirit leaves the body, you're actually losing matter from the body.
		So, yes, I would say it could be measured.
		That's remarkable.
		Hold that thought, David.
		I'll come right back to you.
		That's one.
		Back now to David Scott.
		And we were discussing the nature of the soul, and you're saying it is matter, in effect, and it vibrates.
		Oh, yeah.
		At what frequency?
		If I knew that, I wouldn't be talking to you right now.
		Well, there you are.
		I was going to say, like Dan Rather, people are going to be stopping you on the street saying, what's the frequency?
		This is true.
		So we don't really know, but you believe that at some level it vibrates at a frequency.
		Well, you see, what happens is, is that when you come here to Earth, you come here with a certain agenda.
		It's personal for each individual who's ever lived, who is living out, who will live in the future.
unidentified		You come here with a certain agenda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that agenda primarily is to create your own spirituality, to progress spiritually.
		And as you progress spiritually, you raise your vibrational level just a little bit, and just a little bit more, and just a little bit more.
		And then eventually, you're going to be able to see around you the spirits that are tied to this earth, or you're going to be able to receive direct communication from your spiritual servers or your Heavenly Father.
		And you're going to be a clear conduit in that regard.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everything vibrates that way.
		Huh.
		So it is possible then, as you progress, to actually talk to the spirits that have gone before.
		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are countless instances of that ever since recorded history.
		Of course, many people put it down as meth.
		Well, they sure do.
		One way it's done, it is said, is with Ouija.
		Yeah, I do believe that the Ouija board can receive communication from spirits, but you've got to understand what spirits are you talking with.
		Well, I don't know if it's the Ouija board or just the fact that people are sitting down and actually trying to communicate with spirits.
		Right.
		And so you think they do?
		Well, maybe it all depends.
		Is it through the course of their own will?
		Are they moving that little triangle around the board?
		Or is it to such a degree that a spirit is actually communicating through you?
unidentified		I can tell you this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My own personal belief is that anybody communicating through a Ouija board isn't something that you would want to listen to anyway.
		A lot of people say that such an attempt to communicate is inherently dangerous, that you might call up things you might not be so happy about.
		Do you agree with that?
unidentified		It's very possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Part of the thing that you need to understand is that the spirits that live nearer the earth in the darker realms are constantly roaming the earth, roaming around in their own misery, and they want everyone else to be miserable, and they will attempt to influence you to, you know, think in a certain way.
		Well, I would think then that somebody sitting down and playing about with a Ouija board would be just inviting these spirits who are kind of looking for trouble anyway.
		Well, I would think so too, yes.
		Yeah.
		To come in and cause trouble.
		So you would say to anybody considering playing in such areas, don't do it.
unidentified		Yeah, don't do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you see, the thing is, you've got to remember that if a spirit is tied to this earth, his vibrational rate is just a little bit higher than yours, which means it's easier to bridge the gap.
		When you're trying to communicate or when you're trying to receive revelation from a higher source, their vibrational rate or their spiritual plane is so much higher that they have to lower their vibrational rate to talk to you.
		It's a lot more difficult, specifically when you're kind of caught up in the everyday goings-on of life.
		You don't listen.
		All right.
		Well, what you're telling us about what happens after we die, David, is markedly different than is described, or most people would say, is described in the Bible.
		How do you reconcile these differences?
		Well, you know, I truly believe the Bible to be an inspired work of our Father in heaven.
		There's no question about it.
unidentified		But think about this for a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Bible is only a couple of thousand pages long, and much has been written after the fact, and much has been left out, and there has been much taken out, for instance, the Apocrypha.
		And so there's much spiritual truth that is out there that isn't dealing with the Bible, which isn't dealt with in the Bible.
		Now, see, now also, too, the Bible was specifically written for one purpose, and that was to teach the gospel of Jesus Christ.
		That's right.
unidentified		You see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the Bible is specifically designed to put people on the path of spirituality and to find the truth themselves.
		Anything I'm telling you, you can find out for yourself.
		There's nothing I'm saying that you can't go out and find out for yourself.
		Would you describe what you believe and the avenues you pursue as kind of a new wavy sort of thing?
unidentified		A new age type thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A new age, yeah.
		Ah, geez, I have a real problem with that.
		Yes, new age philosophy and new age thought is truly The popular thing now.
		Specifically, it's popular for people who want to justify.
		Oh, I'm trying to say this in a nice way, trying to justify their current lifestyle.
		Instead of calling on their Heavenly Father, they call on the universal intelligence.
		Instead of following after one perfect man, they say, you know, you create your own reality and everyone, you know, there are great teachers throughout the world, Buddha, Gandhi, you know, all these things.
		It's interesting then.
		You accept some New Age philosophy, but you don't embrace it to the exclusion of more traditional beliefs.
		You mix them together, sort of.
		Well, see, the thing is, is that New Age philosophy, there is some truth in New Age philosophy.
		There's no question about it.
		There is a life after death.
		There is spiritual planes of existence of all those avenues.
		There are people on this earth that can communicate with spirit who have passed on.
		And there's active communication going on between the spirit world and people.
		There's thousands, if not millions, of people throughout the world who have had some spiritual experience with someone from beyond our current existence.
		I'll tell you what I believe right now, so there's absolutely no confusion in the minds of anyone.
		The God is the God of the Bible.
		That's right, and Jesus is the Christ, the only way to the Father.
		All right.
		Well, then back to the mechanics, because that's what I find absolutely fascinating, these different spiritual planes.
		Is there any way that a person can know what spiritual plane they are destined for, or anything about their next life, or for that matter, their past lives, before they die?
		Well, yes, yes, and I don't know.
		Yes, you can know what you can expect when you die.
		And you can know at this very instant what are your thoughts right now.
		What's your true desire in your heart this very moment?
		And if you know what that is, then you pretty much have a good idea of what kind of plane of existence you can experience if you were to die at this moment.
		Boy, I don't know, David.
		If I do that, I'm going to be honest with you.
		I've done things in my life that I'm not proud of, that I worry may be held against me in some judgment city-like place if I'm forced to even review all of my own actions.
		I'm not so sure.
		You know, I have my doubts.
		I've been okay, but then again, maybe I haven't.
		Well, did you learn from your experiences?
		Did they make you a better person?
		That's the question that needs to be asked.
		Also, too, and this is something that I find absolutely astonishing to me.
		People seem to think that Father is sitting up there with a baseball bat, just waiting for Art to screw up one time, and he's going to bop you one time.
		That's right.
		You know, and they worship Father not because they love him, but because they fear what's going to happen if they don't.
		And the thing is here, is that everything that happens in this life, every minor detail, is for your own benefit.
		You see, Father doesn't see the sin.
		He sees what the benefit of the sin is going to create.
		You see, he also sees that there is going to be an opportunity for you to grow from it.
		Everything is good in the sense that you're going to learn from it eventually and progress higher.
		When you put your hand on a hot stove, that was a bonehead thing to do, but you're never going to do it again.
		Well, right.
		But you say this on the one hand, but on the other hand, you say, well, there are planes that equate to hell.
		So it's as though on the one hand there's forgiveness, but maybe there isn't.
		I mean, maybe, in a sense, if you've not been good, you're headed to a lower plane.
		But what if I told you Father had absolutely nothing to do with that choice?
		Well, then I'd wonder, wonder, David.
		I really would, because I would think that that would be the realm of, you know, the person that does see over those things.
		See, the wonderful thing is that he's given us free choice.
		He's given us the right to choose whatever it is we want to do with our lives here.
		If we choose to do unwise things, if we choose to be a mass murderer or to live in an immoral way of life, we essentially will become such a person that will only feel comfortable and only be able to exist in a certain realm.
		On the other hand, if we live our life in forgiveness and we continually strive to serve and we continually seek to know the truth, then we're going to be in an entirely different existence, solely based on what the desires of our heart is.
		Well, there are a lot of people who would say that what you're doing, the areas you're investigating, you should not be investigating.
		The things you're looking into, you should not be looking into.
		Oh, absolutely.
		I've gotten that a lot.
		I'm sure you have.
		Specifically around where I live.
	So how do you answer that?
	Ah, it's my choice.
	I want to know the truth.
	I'm unwilling to accept any man's word for anything.
	I, too, am a big believer in the pursuit of truth, and so we go ahead, David.
	Perhaps at our own peril.
	Who knows?
	Stay right where you are.
	We're at the top of the hour, and we'll be back.
	David Scott is my guest, and we're exploring the unknown.
	We'll be back.
unidentified		That that's even a remote possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		One, you have to recognize that when one gets started searching for something, you run into all.
		For example, mountain ranges.
		I searched for 35 years, and I went to geologists, I went to all kinds of people to get some kind of an indication.
		What caused mountain ranges?
		God caused mountain ranges.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the answer you got?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		Okay, then who is God?
		All right?
		If you want to go that route, that's wonderful.
		The unfortunate thing about that type of thing is there is a long history in our past where misinformation has become burning.
		And that's what I become concerned about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I'm a big boy.
		I can face up to facts the way they really are.
unidentified		And you tell me, I mean, you don't believe in the Big Bang.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You in essence tell me that everything always has and always will be here.
		And the only constant is change.
		That's a very difficult concept for most people, me included.
		Always has been and always will be.
unidentified		Okay, let's take one more step into what we mean by there's no by change.
		All right.
		All right.
		We know for a fact now the Hubble From the Kingdom of Nine.
		We continue with your calls on Dreamland with our bell.
		1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-TALK.
		First time callers, Area Code 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Or the wildcard line at Area Code 702-727-1295.
		727-1295.
		In the 702 area code.
		Now again, here's Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From Provo, Utah, my guest is David H. Scott, and he's here talking about the world unseen, I guess.
		It's another book title, but indeed it is the world unseen, but I guess you can know about it, and we're talking about it, and we'll talk more about it with David in just a moment.
		First, 800.
		Going back now to our guest, David Scott, and I think, David, you will be interested in this facts that just arrived for the two of us.
		A statement for you and Mr. Scott.
		This comes from Eric in San Francisco.
		My mother recently passed away with cancer, and she was definitely conscious right up until the last minute, was not on any medications.
		And she kept saying, quote, they're trying to get me to come across the ridge.
		And she would say, quote, but I'm not ready yet, end quote.
		She left this world so peacefully with a smile on her face that I definitely believe she saw something much better beyond our plane of reality.
		What do you think of that one, David?
unidentified		Well, you know, that is something that happens quite often.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you a short story of what happened to me last year.
unidentified		My very closest friend I have ever had on earth passed away last year.
		He, you know, was the epitome of a Greek god, the picture of hell.
		And he graduated BYU in exercise physiology, had the body to prove it, you know, all that stuff.
		Well, he was diagnosed not only with one form of cancer, renal carcinoma, but when they did the MRI, they discovered that it spread to his lymph system and his bones.
		And he lingered on for about seven months after the diagnosis.
		Well, towards the end, I was sitting in his room and I was holding his hand and his father was in the room with us.
		And he opened his eyes and looked up in the corner of the room.
		He says, Dad, they're here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're here?
unidentified		Yeah, Dad, they're here.
unidentified		And his dad would say, who's here, Roger?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who's there?
unidentified		And all Roger would say is, they're there.
		They're here now.
		And he closed his eyes and went back to sleep.
		And shortly thereafter, he died.
		So yes, I do know that, see, as one becomes closer to dissolution or to death, the thinner the veil becomes.
		And the more that you're going to be able to, you see, your spirit is partly here and it's partly there.
		And sooner or later, it's just going to just float out of the body and be taken onto wherever it goes after it's died or after death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's explore for a second near-death experiences, which I guess we're doing.
		There was a show on that I can't shake from my mind, and now I can't even recall what program it was.
		It may have been 60 Minutes or, you know, 2020 or a program like that.
		And they interviewed a doctor who had for years been getting near-death experiences in the operating room.
		I don't know whether you saw this program or not, but the Angels program, the Patty Duke?
		Well, I don't know.
		At any rate, this doctor took a neon sign and put it up above the operating room on a high cabinet where nobody could see it except somebody who would actually literally float up to the ceiling, as so many people have said they do.
		And I forget, the neon sign could be programmed to say different things.
		And it said something stupid like when the popsicles bloom in August or something or another, I can't remember what it was, but something that only somebody who had been up to the ceiling in the operating room would be able to see.
		Nobody has ever come back able to describe what that sign says.
unidentified		I saw the program that you're referring to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		I have no answer for you.
		On the one hand, you could say, well, maybe nothing happened.
		Maybe they didn't flow out of their bodies.
		On the other hand, maybe they did flow out of their bodies and came back and it was Such an interesting experience to them, or such a scary experience to them, they didn't want to say anything to anybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe.
		The other thing that was very important, I thought, in that program, was a doctor who said, Look, what these people see when they die is to be expected.
		If you look at the way the brain dies, it dies from the outside moving inward.
		They see a bright light that gets brighter.
		That would be expected as the neurons in the brain stop firing and they continue firing inside the bright center, the bright light, and all the rest of it.
		It's a normal physical reaction.
unidentified		Right.
		And that's what some doctors say.
		On the other hand, in that same program, they interviewed doctors of the same field, psychiatrists, who have died themselves, who have experienced that near-death experience and refute that.
		They said that was the most real experience they've ever had in their entire lives.
		They didn't know it could have been a hallucination of a dying brain.
		So we're back to square one.
		On the one hand, you have people saying, well, yes, this is a true event.
		On the other hand, you have physicians, doctors, people in society we highly respect saying, well, this is a hallucination of the brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		And so I guess it boils all down to if it happens, it has to happen to you for you to really know for sure, or you live your life by faith.
		I choose to live my life by faith.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I choose, and you apparently do as well, to try to pursue the truth.
		And I wonder, what do you think will be the best avenue, David, to try to prove, though we may never be able to, that there is an existence beyond this one.
		If you were to choose a single avenue or even multiple avenues of research to try to decide for sure whether or not it's true, how would you pursue it?
unidentified		Well, as I have pursued it, which is empirical, relating everything to myself.
		Of course, you have to gather evidence from other people's experience, but then you have to compare it with what your experience has been in life.
		If you choose to live your life in such a way as to be open to the possibility that there is a spiritual level of mankind, evidence will be presented to you throughout your lifetime that you are a spiritual being.
		On the other hand, if you don't believe those things, you're not going to find evidence for it.
		Sort of like when a physicist tries to determine whether or not light is a wave or a particle, they have experiments that show that light is both a wave and a particle.
		But now what they're discovering is that when you go into the experiment, you'll find precisely what it is that you're looking for.
		So one scientist who feels it's a wave will prove that it's a wave.
		And one scientist who thinks it's a particle will prove that it's a particle.
		You see.
		It's just a matter of what you are going into with your personal prejudices or your personal bias.
		That's the best I can do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's go to the telephone, if you wouldn't mind, David, and let's begin to take some questions.
		This is, if anything, certainly a fascinating, absolutely a fascinating topic.
		So you up for that?
unidentified		I'm ready.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, David.
		Here it comes on the toll-free line.
		Good evening.
		You're on the air with David Scott.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
		You're on the air, sir.
		Turn your radio off.
unidentified		Okay.
		Yeah, hi.
		I just tuned in from San Francisco.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I caught a little bit of the show before, just making sure you're talking about spiritual things, basically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we are.
unidentified		Right.
		I've been a Christian for seven years, and I found that Jesus is the only one who claimed, I am the truth.
		He said, I am the way in the truth.
		And I heard a message today which was very interesting.
		The pastor spoke about how Satan, the God of this age, has blinded the eyes of unbelievers.
		And he said that in Scripture, each third, according to Scripture, he took a third of the demons with him.
		And also that a third of Jesus' ministry was dealing with the demonic realm.
		And so the demonic realm is a very much, and the Bible says there's powers and principalities which influence our lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's address that.
		The demonic realm, the devil.
		There is, in essence, a kind of hell, you said.
		Is this a domain?
unidentified		Yes, it is, actually.
		The domain of the dark realms are presided over by spirits who possess great forces of will or thought and able to subject lesser beings to their will.
		The information that was just provided to us concerning the host of heaven, the third of the host of heaven, these beings that were cast out of heaven were at one time angels of light.
		And they chose to rebel against our Father in heaven and his plan of salvation.
		And they were cast down to the earth where they will remain to this day, will remain to the end of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would imply that after death, David, free will or some form of free will in the spirit realm continues?
unidentified		Yes, absolutely.
		See, we will never ever be denied our free will or our free choice.
		That is one of the absolute truths that our Father in heaven has laid down.
		Even after Christ returns to the earth again and cleanses the earth and all that stuff, men and women will still have a choice as to whether or not to choose to follow after Christ or choose to follow after their own path.
		People will always have an opportunity to choose wherever they're at.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		On the first time caller line, you're on the air with David Scott.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		I just have one question.
		I'm calling from Fairbanks, Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fairbanks, Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And I sort of believe the way he does, but I have a question that's bothered me for eons that I need the answer to.
unidentified		And that is: if this is true about we have after life and that we come here to learn, how is it that today there is more people alive on Earth than there was 500 years ago?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's a very good question.
		Thank you.
		It's one everybody asks, and I should have asked it myself.
		The population continues to grow, David.
		The forecasts are that shortly after the turn of the century, the Earth's population will double.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How can this be?
unidentified		Well, you have to understand, Father has a lot of children.
		There's a lot of people still waiting to come down to this earth for their mortal probation and their time here to grow.
		It will be thus, even more so as time draws nearer to the second coming of Christ.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, are these, in essence, fresh souls?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if that's the right term or not.
unidentified		Well, are you referring to reincarnation?
unidentified		There's a lot of debate to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in effect, you have been referring to reincarnation, or if not, by that name, then a rose that smells just like it, you have been talking about coming back and proceeding with one's spiritual life and becoming more perfect, and that is, in fact, reincarnation, is it not?
unidentified		Well, I guess from one perspective it is.
unidentified		My definition of reincarnation is where a spirit has lived a life on this earth before, who has died before, and who has been brought back in a rebirth in another body on this earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reincarnation seems to sound like it to me.
unidentified		Yeah, that's what it sounds like to me, too.
unidentified		As far as reincarnation is concerned, now there are...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, if that is the ensuing process, and you seem to confirm that it is, then are these, in essence, fresh souls, souls that have not been on the Earth plane previously?
unidentified		Well, you know, I hesitate to answer that question specifically, but I'll attempt to do so in a way that satisfies the common interest.
		I have a personal belief that we have opportunities to grow, to continue to experience life to the degree where we accomplished what we came here for.
		The books that I've mentioned, Life in the World Unseen, Heavenly Ways of Earth Graduates, they both say that reincarnation is in fact a legitimate way of growth.
		That we do have multiple opportunities to come back here, but it's through the grace of God to determine whether or not that spirit will have the opportunity to do so.
		For instance, if they were deprived of their full existence here in a murder or a bad accident or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Okay, well, that says we come back.
		It doesn't address the question of the ballooning population.
		In other words, are these souls that have been elsewhere, been on standby, been in other lives, other civilizations prior to this one?
		Where are they all coming from is the question.
unidentified		Well, we all have existed before we even came to this earth, long before this earth was even created.
		We have existed with our Heavenly Father in His kingdom long before this earth was created.
		So yes, there are souls still waiting to come to this earth.
		Some have been reserved to come to this earth in this day and time because they are such powerful spirits and that they will be used to guide others to the truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, on the wildcard line, you're on the air with David Scott.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening.
unidentified		How you doing?
		I'm amazed I got through in some ways, but then again, didn't.
		My name is Michael, and I'm calling because I could be Jesus Christ reincarnated, but I'm not putting the world on my shoulders, people.
		It's your responsibility.
		Basically, anything you want to ask, the guy put it very, very good to you on your show.
		That was excellent.
		A1 plus for that.
		But through God, okay, and the understanding of Jesus Christ and his beliefs, everlasting life.
		You can go anywhere in the universe you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a specific question, sir?
unidentified		Basically, I don't have any kind of question, but your talker tonight is right in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, glad you're enjoying it.
		His name is David Scott.
		On the first-time caller line, you're on the air with David Scott.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in San Diego.
		Okay.
		My name's Scott.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Scott.
unidentified		And I'm sorry, I forgot the fellow's name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		David Scott.
unidentified		David Scott?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Hi, David.
		The question you just got posed to you?
		Yes, Scott.
		I think, when I think about that, I think that perhaps we have concurrent, you know, because if it keeps going like it is, there'll be unlimited number of souls on the planet.
		I think there's concurrent lives here.
		Well, one right after the other.
		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, he said concurrent.
unidentified		Concurrent.
		Like, when I meet somebody, like, it could be a male, could be a female, could be another race, we have a lot in common.
		I think people get married to each other like that, and they don't even know the fact that they're having the same soul in different bodies.
		Right.
		Does that make sense?
		Well, it does make sense.
		I'm not convinced that that's a true doctrine.
		Then again, though, let me say this.
		I don't know everything there is to know.
		I know a little bit of the truth, but there's a whole mess of truth out there to learn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And anyone who says with finality that one thing or another is true or not true, well...
		Then you know they're wrong since they say that.
		Well, they demonstrate a great deal of arrogance in thinking that there is...
		Father has a whole mess of mystery platform for people to learn and understand, and this is one of them that I confess I'm in the dark on.
		Well, I'll introduce another good show, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		Well, I am too, David, but I continue to explore, and as I said earlier, a lot of people get angry about that.
		They say you shouldn't be exploring anything.
		It is all written in that book, and while I don't want to turn this into a religious show on this topic, it's impossible not to brush up against religion.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they get angry.
		They get frustrated.
		They say, you're going in areas you shouldn't be going into.
		You should stay away from this for your own good.
		But nevertheless, David, here we are, and we'll do more of it in a moment.
unidentified		Stay right there.
		This is a pre-recorded previously broadcast program.
		You're here in Greenland with Arpel.
		To participate in the program, call to 618-855.
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		First time calling.
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		Or the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
unidentified		Good evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Ard Bell.
		My guest is David Scott, and we're talking about life after death, if there is one, kind of exploring what it might be like and what it's really all about.
		And it's one of the central questions I guess most humans strive to answer.
		And we are going to get back to David in just a moment.
		And I've got outside the body and exactly what it is.
		North American trading sells gold.
		But some people have the gift of being able to lead their body consciously and explore on their own the temporal realms of existence, going from place to place on Earth, in the flicker of a thought.
		I mean, I've heard people talk about traveling in space, traveling away from the Earth.
		Shirley McLean, others have described that kind of travel.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you leave your body in book life, you're still in this sphere of spiritual existence.
		Now, in the scriptures, in the Bible, there are many instances where Paul discusses leaving his body and being caught up to the third heaven and such like that.
		And that does happen, too, where you are lifted out of your body by the Spirit of God and taken to a higher spiritual plane for whatever reason.
		When you leave your body here, it's part of a money impression and I have the belief that you experience things on this level of existence still.
		So it's in this, in other words, it's confined to this, what we call this spiritual realm.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, there is an interesting story of a, I'm trying to remember the book I read on it, about a man who learned how to leave his body and explore different spiritual realms.
		But his wanderings were limited to just the first three or four spheres and nothing more.
		Is this, in your view, a dangerous thing to do, or is it a good idea?
		Well, I would kind of say that exercise caution if this is a pursuit that you're endeavoring to pursue.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me go back to the phones.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with David Scott.
		Good evening.
		Where are you calling from?
dave talbot ▲ ● ▼		From Los Angeles.
dave talbot ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Hello.
dave talbot ▲ ● ▼		David.
unidentified		Hi.
dave talbot ▲ ● ▼		I've spent a little time in this experience, and it seems like whoever created us put us in a realm of either having faith or living in fear or gradations thereof.
		And the other one was truth or dishonesty or denial.
		And I think we're experiencing a society today that lives very much in denial and dishonesty.
		And we have to make some choices as to which direction we're going to go because we have some very bad problems on our hands.
		Now, I used to have my doubts.
		And, you know, Art was talking about previous experiences.
		Well, St. Augustine, I guess, had some pretty bad experiences and came out of that life and changed it.
		But one of the scriptures, writings that I kind of was confused about was Christ said not to pour new wine into old wines, actually.
		Pour new wine into new wine sects because the old one before the fermentation process is over would crack and we'd lose it.
		And I often wonder, what the heck does this mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what the Lord is speaking of when he refers to that is that if you're going to receive new truth into your life, if you're going to receive higher ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ, you yourself have to become a new vessel.
		You have to become purified in your own existence as you are now.
		You have to alter the way that you think, the way that you look at life, the way that you happen to judge things in your life.
unidentified		And that's that you have to become a person to receive that new truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you were to try to understand much of what the Lord tried to teach us and remain at the level of spirituality that you're at now, you would not be able to understand nor contain the truth that the Lord is trying to give to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So when he says you can't pour new wine into old wine skin lest they burst, he's referring to you being the wine skin.
unidentified		You have to become a new wineskin to receive the new truth that he's trying to teach you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		More or less saying that you can teach an old dog new tricks?
unidentified		Well, I don't know.
unidentified		Sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sorry, I couldn't resist.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with David Scott.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Mr. Scott, how are you doing tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fine, thank you.
unidentified		Jody in Albuquerque.
		Hi, Jody.
		I've got two questions, and I hate to dwell on religion.
		Okay.
		But just exactly, who is Jesus?
		Was he an insurrectionist?
		Was he a teacher, a philosopher?
		Or was he really God?
		Also, how exactly do you live your life to stay out of hell?
		Sounds like a scary place.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it does.
unidentified		Well, let me address who Jesus was and is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jesus came to this earth for a specific reason, and that is to show the way to all people who have ever lived on this earth, the way back to the Father, the way back to our Father in heaven.
		Not only did he have to endure every trial and every temptation that we have endured, but he had to overcome them in such a way as to have never succumbed to those temptations.
		So not only was he a man, but he was also a perfect man who lived on this earth.
		His teachings have been only to point to the Father in a way of understanding what we need to do to get back to our Father.
		So he is the Savior of the world in that sense.
		When you say Savior, he is the only one by which you can reach the Father.
		All right.
		I want to return to these different spheres of existence or levels of spirit existence.
		What can you tell me about them?
		Do we know anything about them?
		In other words, what's where?
		Well, we do know that there are different levels of existence, the highest level being where our father lives, the lowest one being where there is no light, that there is just a dark realm.
		Yes, well, I think most of us imagine that we're going to fit into something in between those two, and so that's where my curiosity is peaked.
		What kind of existence is a spirit, our spirit, going to have in one of these middle levels?
		What do we have to look forward to?
		Well, again, like I said earlier, it all depends on what you decide to do with your life in this world.
		And if you choose to do what everything the Savior told you to do, to point out the right path, you'll end up in the higher realms.
		If you choose to follow after your own lust, your own greed, your own desire for power at the expense of other people, you're going to find yourself in a dark realm.
		Well, okay, again, I guess I should be more specific about what I'm asking, David.
		I'm not answering your question.
		No, you're not.
		What I'm asking is actually what's there.
		Let's say we go to one of these middle realms.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's there?
unidentified		I got you now.
unidentified		I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what has been described in Heavenly Ways of Earth Graduates, and again in a wonderful accounting of this in Life in the World and Scene, is pretty much a realm.
		Let's just take a realm in the middle spheres, okay?
		That realm is pretty much described as one that has halls of learning.
		It is a realm of light.
		Sort of like, let's say you live in this world here, but it's continual light.
		Everything is in perfect order.
unidentified		There is no sadness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is no despair.
		There is no depression.
		You're free to choose the path of learning that you want to learn.
		The hulls of learning are fascinating to me.
		Betty Eady describes them a little bit in her book.
		Daniel Brinkley in his book, Saved by the Light, describes them a little bit.
		And what you find is that it's pretty much the same way here, only it's perfection.
unidentified		It's continual summertime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does that get close to answering your question?
		It sounds a little like you're going to a very warm, light library.
		You're going to a realm of existence where everything is set in order and you have all of eternity to progress.
		Your whole life is centered around your progression there, to serve others as best you can, to learn the higher ordinances, to reach higher spheres.
unidentified		That's what the halls of learning are for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it individualized, David, do you think?
		Look, I understand you may not be able to answer some of these questions, but, you know, heaven for David Scott and heaven for Art Bell might be, if we were to try and describe them right now, very different sorts of things.
		I'm not altogether sure that I would be happy going to a place of light where I could learn.
		For me, heaven might be an entirely different concept.
		In fact, it is.
		And so what do you say about that?
unidentified		I agree with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree that you're...
		And I'll answer that by posing a question in this way.
		What if your beliefs or your thoughts literally create what you receive in this life and the life after?
		What if that literally your thoughts create your heaven or your hell?
		Well, yeah, I mean, we can play all kinds of whatever games.
		I'm very interested in what actually is.
		I understand you have no way of knowing that.
		Well, you see, the thing is, the point I was just making there is that your thoughts, your beliefs, everything that is you is what will create, what will make up what you receive in the next life.
		Can you follow my meaning?
		Yes.
unidentified		And that's exactly what I'm saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who you Are, what you are, what you're comfortable with, what your thoughts are concerning life after death will determine what you do in this life, will determine what you endeavor to accomplish.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, in effect, we are all busily on this earth creating our own heaven or hell.
unidentified		That's correct.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with David Scott.
		Hi, where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		This is Fritz from Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Fritz.
unidentified		As man progresses in his evolution and grows up, it becomes now easier and easier to grasp your question, David.
		Who am I?
		Where do I come from?
		And where do I go?
		David, at these shows like this that educates the public, keep up the good work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Odds to you too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, Fritz.
		And have a good evening.
		Just a little praise there, David, on the wildcard line.
		You're on the air with David Scott.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
		Art, Bob in Vegas.
		I have a past signal on 780, but at least I can barely get to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, glad you're hearing it, Bob.
unidentified		And, you know, I had a very strong experience when I was 12.
		I later found out I had the experience of the white light, which was really a spiritual experience.
		I had to go through finding, finding, finding later in life.
		Then I found through Good Death and then to a thing called Subhut.
		David, have you ever heard of Subhut?
		S-U-U-D?
		Can you repeat your question, please?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		S-U-B-U-D.
unidentified		S-U-B-U-D.
unidentified		Subut, it's a Shashili Buddhi Dharma, a man from Indonesia, or it's a spontaneous spiritual letting go or initiation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I'm sorry, Bob.
		I don't understand what you mean.
		Yeah, I'm having trouble grasping what you're asking me.
		What are you asking, Bob?
unidentified		Well, I wanted to be heard of Subwud because we found Subwud in England and brought it all over the world.
unidentified		Okay, simple way of letting people experience the union with life force or spirit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, I guess we both don't know what you mean.
		Sorry, Bob.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with David Scott.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Hi.
		This is Colin from Eugene.
		2020, KPNW.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I kind of had a point, I guess, to make about, well, this is what I was thinking about when the caller asked about the past lives, about population explosion.
		Yes.
		I kind of think that everyone that was ever around for all time is kind of coming back now.
		I think he said something about when the coming of the second crisis gets closer, more people will be coming.
		And I kind of believe that everybody that was ever around is coming back to this plane now for whatever people talk about, Armageddon, or whatever you want to call it.
		I kind of think maybe that might be an idea.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's certainly a possibility.
		That they're going to get everybody back in the pool for the big event?
		Yeah, it's certainly a possibility, but that's, again, out of my realm of understanding.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, David.
		Fair enough.
		First-time caller line.
		You're on the air with David Scott.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, Art.
dave talbot ▲ ● ▼		This is Bob in Everett, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Bob.
unidentified		We have a problem up here.
unidentified		Oh?
dave talbot ▲ ● ▼		KVI is not carrying Dreamland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, what are they doing?
dave talbot ▲ ● ▼		They have somebody else on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
dave talbot ▲ ● ▼		Do you know what the story is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea.
unidentified		I'm listening to you on, I think, 1120.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that'll be KPMW.
		Is that Spokane?
		No, 1120 would be KPMW, Eugene, Oregon.
dave talbot ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's coming in pretty good, but not like having you here with us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
dave talbot ▲ ● ▼		So there's life, there's no life after Art Bell in KVI land tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, these things occur from time to time.
unidentified		I had a great time in Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad.
dave talbot ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, bye-bye.
		And on the toll-free line, you're on the air with David Scott.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
		I'm Peter from Quincy, California.
		Hello, Peter.
		Got a couple of simple ones here.
		Well, actually, not really simple.
		Since we're diving in and out of the Bible, I'm not real familiar with nitpicking out of the Bible, but I do know that there's one passage in the Bible that says that even those who do not find Christ will still be able to find the way.
		And I wonder how David can sit there and say that Christ is the only way.
		And what about those of us, and this is where this comes out of, I was born a telepath, empath, high-level psychic abilities, and I've always been that way.
		And most of the Christian religions have made me very leery of any religion.
		So I don't get in with any of them.
		I am walking my own path in the spiritual levels and stuff like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's a very good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do those who, in effect, walk their own path, can they find the correct path?
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see, it's similar to having many tributaries and many streams flowing into a great river.
		For each individual that's on earth, there's a separate path one must walk to find the one true path.
		There's only one way to the Father, and that's through Jesus Christ.
		Now, whether you have to find your way to Christ your own way, that's your life.
unidentified		That's the way you need to travel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For someone to come to an individual and say, listen, either you believe the way I believe or you're going to hell is not of God.
		That is someone who doesn't understand the gospel of Jesus Christ.
		All right.
		Good enough.
		Let's keep moving on the wild card line.
		You're on the air with David Scott.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, my name is Robin.
unidentified		I'm calling St. Louis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Robin, speak up good and loud.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kind of hard to hear.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Yes, this is something that happened to me and my brothers about 15 years ago, back when we were about 13 or 14 years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can barely hear you, my friend.
unidentified		All right, I'll try to speak up.
		Is that a little better?
		Yeah.
		All right, I said this is something that happened to me and my brothers about 15 years ago, back when we were about 13 years old.
		But in two separate instances, my two younger brothers were sleeping in the same room together, and me and my older brother, we had a room together.
		And on both occasions, something appeared in the room.
		And like I said, only one of us in each room seen it.
		And the other one that was there sleeping more or less couldn't be woken up at the time.
		And the two that did see it said that this thing was as tall as the room, probably eight and a half feet tall.
		They said that it was a huge muscular, that it was so much darker than the regular, what you would consider, you know, dark, you know, at night, say two in the morning, that you could see it, you know, like, you know, plain as day.
		And my two brothers said that it was a, you know, huge muscular, and it was, you know, pitch black.
		And the only thing on it that wasn't incredibly dark was the eyes.
		They said that the eyes were a glowing red, you know, and it, you know, had a big black bald head.
		It didn't have any horns or anything like that.
		But they both assumed, you know, obviously, that it was some kind of demon.
		And that it stood there, you know, like the foot of the bed staring at him for probably an hour or two.
		And like he said, I was in the room in one instance, and I remember my brother pushing me, you know, to wake me up.
		And as soon as I woke up and went to like, you know, roll over and look, it's like I fell out there asleep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you for that story.
		And David, what about these creatures?
		Now, there's a whole area here we can explore, but offhand, what he just described, what would you think he encountered?
		Well, there are people who are coming into this earth right now who are very powerful spiritual beings that the adversary truly would like to destroy.
		The work that they came to do would be the direct opposite of the work that the adversary would want to have happen.
		And so it wouldn't surprise me a bit that the adversary would destroy this individual or in some way intimidate him, scare him, or in some way cause him to fear.
		Because fear is the direct opposite of faith, is the direct opposite of power.
		That's like a discussion we were having a little while ago about choices that you must make.
		And faith is one, and I guess fear is the result of not making the first choice.
unidentified		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with David Scott.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Darren from Santa Barbara and Diane from Reemstown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Is your guest saying that you have to be Christ, a Christian, in order to go to heaven?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you're saying, David?
unidentified		No, I'm not.
unidentified		I'm not saying that at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are many people, thousands, if not millions of people, who've lived on this earth who have never known or accepted Christ as their personal Savior.
		Now, I know that there's many fundamentalists out there who disagree with me on this.
		But you see, the thing is, simply this.
unidentified		Our Father in heaven loves all his children.
unidentified		Like an atheist or a theosophist?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't matter.
		If that person lived his life in such a way on this earth as to warrant a certain kingdom or a certain inheritance in this life, he will receive that inheritance no matter what he believes.
		Now, let me say this.
		There are certain ordinances and things like that that will, only people who receive those ordinances will receive the highest kingdom or the highest sphere.
		but that's beyond the scope of this conversation right now.
unidentified		One other thing, I had a Ouija board night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're not going to have time for that.
		We did cover Ouija, but David, we're right up at the top of the hour, so hang loose a few moments.
		We'll be back to you.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is CBC.
unidentified		CBC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To her with regard to any Dreamland topic.
		And she's got a documentary called A Strange Harvest back in 1993 that is available for $35, Glimpses of Other Realities, which is a tremendous book with very careful graphic documentation, which costs $45.
		If you would like to correspond with her or order one of those books, you can write to her, Linda Moulton Howe, H-O-W-E, Post Office Box 538, Huntingdon, that's H-U-N-T-I-N-G-D-O-N, Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, zip code 19006.
		That's Linda Moulton Howe, Post Office Box 538, Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, zip code 19006.
		Let me talk for a second about fax machines, because they are very much the center of the information superhighway that everybody keeps talking about.
		You'll hear me get faxes all the time.
		Many of them now are sent by the new Sanyo fax machine that we've been selling for, oh, I don't know, a couple of months, I guess it is.
		This is more than just a fax machine.
		It will send and receive faxes on the phone line you've got right now.
		You don't need to order a second line for it.
		It will copy any material, a picture, a photograph, cartoons, newspaper articles, or typewritten pages.
		At the push of a button, you put them in, push a button, it copies them.
		So it's a combination, really, fax machine, copy machine.
		The copy mode, by the way, has got enlargement and reduction functions.
		It's got all the goodies on it you would expect and more.
		We did as we always do with products.
		We went out and tried to find the best we could find.
		That's how we settled on Sanyo.
		If we find something better or at a better price, we will carry that and show Sanyo to the door.
		But right now, if you want the best, this is what we adjudge it to be for the price.
		The price is $349.95.
		So if you're ready to get into the age of facts, here's the machine to do it with, and Seacrane is the company to supply it.
		If you'll call them at 7.30 in the morning, they're in fairly short supply right now.
		You can get one on the way, and they will, by the way, hand it to you for that price.
		That includes shipping and handling.
		The fax machine, the Sanyo, from the Seacrane Company.
		1-800-522-8863.
		That's 1-800-522-8863.
		The Sea Grain Company.
		Do you remember the time when you could take a penny to the corner grocery store and be able to buy a nice piece of candy or maybe even a postcard?
		Well, of course, today, the convenience stores keep a bowl of pennies on the counter where the sign says, take one if you need one.
		Can the dollar be far behind?
		You really can't buy anything for a penny anymore.
		In fact, a dollar bill will only buy what a dime would just a few years ago.
		It's true.
		The only form of money that still buys everything that you can buy
		used to is gold over a hundred years ago an ounce of gold traded for twenty dollars and with it you could buy a really nice new suit today you can cash in an ounce of gold almost anywhere in the world and nearly four hundred dollars is put in your pocket it still buys a fine wool suit maybe that's why wise conservative people with well thought out financial plans are moving back to the money that has a 6,000
		year's success record gold.
		No other financial holding offers the safety, security, and privacy of genuine gold.
		My friends at North American Trading will be happy to show you how you can own gold in privacy and safety.
		It's simpler than you might think.
		Call 1-800-877-9799 today and ask for their free information.
		Investors have always turned gold during times of inflation and economic uncertainty.
		Don't wait till it may be too late.
		call 1-800-877-9799 you don't have to be rich to own gold just smart back now to rw Whitfield R.W. says civilizations have come and gone there has been another one in which flying machines or flight was attained and R.W. What I wanted to ask you was that may be so and I don't rule out that possibility but if that is so where's any evidence of it any evidence of prior flying machines other than the pyramids you talked
		those uh...
		there is but in a large technological civilization surely even with eight hundred mile an hour winds and a polar shift there would be some evidence uh...
unidentified		there is let me clarify it one thing a couple of things From the Kingdom of Nye, we continue with your calls on Greenland with Art Bell.
		Call Art now, toll free at 1-800-618-8255, 1-800-618-TALK.
		First time callers, area code 702-727-1222, 702-727-1222.
		Or the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295, 727-1295 in the 702 area code.
		Now again, here's Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell, this is Dreamland.
		We're discussing what may come next, what may lie beyond.
		And as sort of a necessary part of that discussion, there is some religion without apologies.
		It is there.
		It mixes.
		It's part of the mix.
		And so you will continue to hear that.
		Just smart.
		Back now to my guest, David Scott.
		And David, one of the other things that we track carefully on this show is UFOs, aliens, all that sort of thing.
		As with what you've been telling us, in that field, there's an awful lot of evidence that something is here visiting.
		Something has been here.
		Something is on Earth and continues to visit Earth.
		Right.
		Somebody just sent me a fax which asks the following.
		Were aliens also created by God?
		Or is man God's own unique creation?
		Oh, no.
		Father has created worlds unnumbered.
		We can't even begin to count the number of worlds he's created.
		And there are other civilizations outside of this world that Father created.
		Now, Abraham was told that there are other civilizations.
		But he was only given an accounting of this world because it was this world that only pertained to him and us.
		Yes, there are advanced civilizations.
		What they're composed of or what their purpose is, I don't know.
		All right.
		This is from Murray.
		Ask David, though we may die and live again, what will happen to the Earth?
		Will the Earth live again?
		And what will the Earth become as it progresses through its own path to perfection?
		Does the Earth, in fact, go through a cycle as man does?
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
		Yes, everything that the Father has created, he created spiritually first.
		Everything that you can ever imagine has always been created spiritually first.
		The Earth is in itself going through its own probationary existence.
		When it has finished with this particular existence, it will then become cleansed and purified and become the home of all the people who inherit the highest realm.
		This, in essence, will become the highest realm for those spirits who inherit that at the final time.
		Let me see if I'm getting this right.
		Are you suggesting that matter has its own spirituality?
unidentified		Yes, it does.
		Yes.
		Oh.
		Yes.
		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's something new.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then its own vibration, as does our soul, you said.
unidentified		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you consider that everything is composed of...
		of matter including us each particle of matter inherits automatically the light of Christ or the light of our heavenly father but I always I always thought there was a delta, a difference between biological matter, which is a vessel for the soul, and matter-matter, you know, the rock, the vessel.
		I understand what you're asking.
		It is quite a stretch, I guess, for most people to believe that matter, such as a rock, has a spirituality to it.
unidentified		But let me say this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't have the spirituality of a sentient being like you and I. But it is composed of spiritual matter.
		Does that make sense?
		Well, it does.
		It may take me a while to grasp it, and I'm going to think about that.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with David Scott.
		Hi.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Yes, hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
unidentified		Yes, my question is, is, you know, the free will and predestination, I grew up believing in that also, but now, the way technology is, we're learning that we're comprised of electrons and chemicals.
		And like an overabundance of testaron can make us violent and aggressive.
		You know, so chemicals really can, I think we're going to find out in the years to come, the chemicals are sort of pushing us towards our own character.
		And if that's the case, for instance, like in another thing, the environment, like if someone was badly abused or neglected as a child, they're going to grow up in a certain manner and possibly tend to be abusive to others and may be violent.
		So where is our free will in this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, you still have your free will, but I have to be very careful on how I address this question because when you're speaking of someone who has been violently abused in their lives in some way or another, and to place the expectation of living their life in a normal manner as though they were raised in the perfect environment is unreasonable.
		On the other hand, though, that individual, whoever they may be, came into this world to learn a certain thing, and that thing may have been that the only way they can learn it is by going through such an experience.
		And if they grasp the principle or grasp the understanding of their existence here on earth, they can turn every negative into a positive in their life.
		And so they have a choice to make.
unidentified		I still don't see where the choice is.
unidentified		You just have to be saying they're brought into this world to learn a certain lesson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I have the same.
unidentified		And therefore they're programmed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have the same exact problem.
		On the one hand, you're saying everything is predestined and they're going to have to learn this lesson.
		That's the one hand.
		But the other hand, you're saying there's free choice and they don't have to do it that way.
		No.
		There is absolutely no predestination at all.
		You have certain weaknesses, certain characteristics that you're inherently born with, certain things that you need to learn and understand.
		Those things may, certain incidences in your life may be permitted to occur in order for you to have a greater understanding or learn a greater lesson.
		It's not like you come to this earth and it's already planned out every experience, everything that's going to happen as though it was set in motion.
unidentified		That's astrology.
		Well, how about the chemical imbalance and so forth?
		Like they've tested if you have a high dosage of testosterone that you do become violent and aggressive.
		And if we're all comprised of chemicals, and I don't believe we're all the same, you know, you have varying degrees from one spectrum to the other, that some people come into this world with violence already embedded in them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
unidentified		And then where is their free choice?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, where are you calling from then?
unidentified		St. Louis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		St. Louis.
		All right, great.
		So where is their free choice?
		They are chemically predestined.
		Well, we're starting to get into a realm where I haven't the wisdom to address that question.
		I appreciate you saying that.
		Surely we cannot know it all, but it is a very good question, isn't it?
		It's a great question.
		It's one that the individual who's experiencing that has to find the answer for themselves.
		All right, David.
		On the first-time caller line, you're on the air with David Scott.
		Hi.
		Thank you very much, David, from Arsenal, Utah.
		Yes.
		James, Dave State, just up the roadaways.
		Yes.
		Been reading an interesting book by another local author by the name of James L. Thompson.
		It's called Aliens and UFOs, Messengers or Deceivers.
		And you've touched on a couple of the issues regarding UFOs in their relationship to the spiritual world.
		My personal opinion, I don't deny the fact that we may have visitors from other places in the universe visiting us.
		But I think where you see a lot of the things with abductions and some of the things interfering with free will, I think you may be seeing manifestations of what you've been calling some of the darker realms, maybe.
		Could be.
		I think Paul mentioned Satan as the prince of the power of the air in the book of Ephesians.
		And James Thompson in the book here talks about Dr. Frank Salisbury who wrote the Utah UFO display.
		And he talked about an incident that happened back in 1967 in the eastern part of the state where a fourth grade boy announced to his family that a UFO was going to appear over the school the following day at a specific time.
		And when they asked him how he had found that out, it was through a Ouija board they had been playing with.
		I'm curious, sir.
		Did it appear?
unidentified		Yes, it did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've had my own personal experiences with death in the family and so forth.
		And I believe, as your guest does, that spirit is matter.
		It's more finely, more refined, But it can manipulate matter.
		I've definitely seen that.
		My father passed away, and we had some real strange things happen afterwards.
		I was about 16 at the time, and just things that no one could explain as far as physical things in the house breaking.
		And he did die unexpectedly at a rather young age.
		So those may have been some manifestations of some anger or, you know, some rage, like you say.
		All right.
unidentified		Anyway, thanks for your guests.
unidentified		It's been an interesting show tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, indeed it has.
		Thank you.
		And while we can't answer all questions, we are here to explore, and we certainly are getting that done anyway.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with David Scott.
		Good evening.
unidentified		Yes, good evening, Art.
unidentified		This is Martin up in Anchorage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Martin, Anchorage, Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		This is a real good show.
		You're touching a lot of different subjects, and all of them I'm interested in.
		First off, we've talked a lot of times.
		I'm writing a book on UFOs.
		I'm a theologian.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		I've studied the Bible and other religions, and so we have a lot in common.
		I also had a near-death experience.
		I don't know if I've described that to you, Art, but.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you're not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go right ahead if you'd like.
unidentified		Sure.
		I actually, it was about 15 years ago, and I won't get into the details, but I actually, I was gone for several minutes.
		My wife called the ambulance, the neighbors came, and I was out of my body looking down on them at the time.
		And watched my body turn ghost white, and them frantically trying to revive me.
		And the ambulance pulled up in the front.
		I could hear the ambulance drivers talking as they came up the steps.
		And I was up hovering, I would say about 10 feet above my body around the ceiling.
		That was my vantage point.
		To answer your question about why they didn't see the light that the doctor put up, the neon sign, I would say it was because you're not focused on material things like that, Art.
		You've entered into a spiritual realm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a very good answer.
unidentified		Yeah, you're seeing a light that's so much brighter than any neon sign.
		Those are things all focused on what's happening, the people, and what's significant.
		I believe these experiences happen for a reason.
		The Divine Creator is doing all of this and wants us to be enlightened as much as we're able to.
		You know, these little experiments that we do to try to break it down and figure it out intellectually are really insignificant, and he wants us to focus on the spiritual things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's a very good answer.
		a very good answer and uh...
		it's simply because It is simply insignificant and not relevant to what the person is experiencing?
		Well, I wish I had thought of it.
		Yeah, very, very good answer.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with David Scott.
		Hi.
unidentified		Oh, I'm sorry, I've gotten the wrong number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Very good.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with David Scott.
		Good evening.
unidentified		Good evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am, you're on the air.
unidentified		Go ahead.
		Okay.
		I've been listening to your program.
		I've listened a couple of times before, but I'm not a regular listener.
		I think earlier in the show, you were talking about is the only way to find God or whatever is through Jesus Christ.
		I would like to just say that my own, I found answers that satisfied me through the exertative readings, which was that Jesus was the man and that Christ is the power.
		And the power can be reached through any belief, any faith, whether it be Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a very good point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		I'm calling from Central Point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Central Point, Oregon.
		All right.
		K-O-P-E.
		Yes, David, the same.
		I guess that is in a way the way I feel.
		In other words, as you pointed out, there may be many paths, and spirituality is a path, and it need not be as precisely described in the Bible, but I certainly have a belief in a larger being.
		And yes, I'm satisfied in my own mind and comfortable with my belief, and hopefully that'll get me where I want to go.
unidentified		Well, it will eventually get you to where you want to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As your caller stated, there are many, many paths to the one straight and narrow path that's referred to.
		And each individual is traveling their own path to enlightenment and understanding.
		And they're the only ones that could find that path for themselves.
		So those of us who keep our own counsel with regard to our spirituality are not necessarily going down the wrong path, only a different road to the eventual same destination.
		Is that about right?
		That's correct.
		Or to the eventual same conclusion.
		Okay.
		Yeah, that's correct.
		All right, good.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with David Scott.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, David.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had a problem with some of the things that David was saying about father, always associating with father.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know that's a very Christian concept in terms of certain theologies, but there is a concept of mother as being sacred.
unidentified		Oh, yes, and you're absolutely correct.
		Or God without gender association.
		In fact, higher creative forces really are beyond gender identification.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't agree with that.
		But you see, that's the wonderful thing.
		I don't have to be right.
		I'm just interested in the truth.
		That doesn't make me wrong.
unidentified		I feel that, right, there is gender, and there is that which is beyond gender.
		you deal with those forces that create universes, galaxies, dimensions, and the infinitesimally small beings that exist on this planet and many planets and the larger beings as well.
		It's an enormous project.
		I think dividing it by gender and alienating and identifying only with one gender.
		Limited.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I fully understand and appreciate what you're saying.
		I think, though, that it doesn't really matter.
		Yeah, that's what I was going to say, too.
		Why does it matter?
		Father is just a term that you're using.
		I'm referring to my God as my father.
		Yes.
		And somehow or another, if this entity is what we all think it's cracked up to be, she wouldn't mind.
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're going to discover that things that you once believed aren't true and things that you believed were true are not.
		You're going to come to the, you're going to understand.
		You're going to know everything eventually.
		And it doesn't matter if you know it all at one time.
		All right.
		On the first time caller line, you're on the air with David Scott.
		Good evening.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I'm Paul calling from Salt Lake City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Paul.
unidentified		Yes, I was just wondering, David, are you getting any of your ideas from Mormon theology?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I get a lot of my ideas from Mormon theology, but I also get a lot of my ideas from studying the works of Nietzsche.
		And I've read the works, some of the works and teachings of Buddha.
		I've read the Quran.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		I'm wondering have you identified yourself as a Mormon on this broadcast that just tuned in?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, he hasn't, but you're welcome to if you would like to.
		Are you Mormon, Dave?
		I am Mormon.
		Okay.
		But it doesn't matter.
		It really doesn't matter.
		The point being is that what I'm telling you now is hopefully for the purpose of furthering enlightening the individual person.
		I'm not here to push any particular religion or dogma because the spiritual experience goes beyond religion.
		How, though, as a matter of curiosity, do you think the Mormon church would react to what you're saying?
		That answers it very well, David.
		Stand by.
		We're at the bottom of the hour, and we'll be right back.
		You're listening to Dreamland on the CBC Radio Network.
		We're talking about what may or may not come after.
		David Scott says he thinks he knows and he's been telling us about it and will continue that process.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Stay right where you are.
		Radio Network.
		It is.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Dreamland.
		And I'm about to read a fax in a moment.
		I can do that because I have a fax machine that follows, right?
		Numbers 1-800-522-8 Awesome, which follows up on something I said earlier, David.
		Art, I'll be trying to get through on the wildcard line, but in the event I can't, I'd like to give you some specifics on the experiment you alluded to with regard to weight loss at the time of death.
		Although I remain pragmatic and skeptical on the subject, I continue to keep an open mind for my own insight.
		It is interesting that you referenced unexplained weight loss, as I'm quite familiar with the specifics of this alleged phenomenon.
		The experiment reportedly was conducted at Massachusetts General Hospital sometime in the 30s or 40s.
		I'm unable to recall exactly.
		Nevertheless, the procedure was reported, I believe, in a book called The Third Eye.
		A terminally ill patient was placed on a balanced beam scale, which weighed the bed, mattress, clothing, and bed liner against an opposing weight that kept the assembly in perfect balance throughout the dyeing process.
		In this manner, any fluid losses and or weight of expelled air could be accounted for at the moment of clinical death.
		At that precise time, the actual weight loss was calculated at three quarters of an ounce.
		In 1960, I called Massachusetts General.
		They would neither confirm nor deny the report.
		Additionally, there have been numerous reports by nurses who reportedly have observed the appearance of some sort of astral body leaving the physical one at the time of death.
		That's the facts.
		And, David, is that familiar to you?
unidentified		Yes, that's the experiment I was aware of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
		Three-quarters of an ounce, a non-trivial amount of weight.
		Well, yeah, that's significant, which can't be accounted for, in my opinion, in any other way.
		Would you like to see experiments of the same sort repeated if it could be done in this modern day?
		Well, you know, Art, I look at that, and it would be wonderful if you could actually prove through scientific methods the existence of a spirit.
		But it wouldn't really matter anyway because people are going to believe what they want to believe.
		Well, that's true.
		Back to the phones.
		A lot of people want to talk to you.
		Toll-free line, you're on the air with David Scott.
		Hi, where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		This is Todd from Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Todd.
unidentified		Hi.
		I wasn't sure if I was getting online.
		I think they bumped you back an hour in Seattle for the president's speech.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
		Yes, I guess that's what's happened in Seattle.
		He went on the air, I believe, at about 6.30 or so.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
unidentified		Well, anyway, so I might be an hour late in what I'm calling about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's quite all right, my friend.
unidentified		I was calling about your understanding that all religions were leading to the same path.
		And I was just calling to say that if you can believe that if you want, but then you have to strip out biblical Christianity from that because it's inconsistent with all the other paths being equal to it.
		It's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
		It does argue with it.
		It says it just isn't so, doesn't it?
		And David, how do you deal with that?
		Well, not all paths are equal, and that isn't what I said.
		They all lead to a specific path, or they can lead to a specific path.
		There's only one way, I think the specific scripture says, is narrow is the gate and straight is the way, something of that nature, that leads them to eternal life.
		And if you're not on the right path, in my opinion, there's only one way to the Father, and that's through Jesus Christ.
		However, does that mean everyone who happens to believe in a Buddha or another sort of God, are they going to go to hell because they don't happen to believe in Jesus Christ?
unidentified		Well, what I believe we're judged on is that which we know.
		If they've been told of the gospel and they refuse Jesus Christ and believe in the other and exclude Jesus Christ, then yes, they will.
		If they've heard the truth and denied it, but Jesus says no one gets to the Father but through me.
		And if they haven't heard that, I don't know what the answer is, whether they'll go to hell or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What you're saying is that if a missionary went to China and taught people the gospel of Jesus Christ and they refused to believe that and clung to their own belief system at that moment, then they've had their chance.
		I come from the perspective that they have to have a testimony that what they're being taught is true to receive that sort of condemnation.
		If they receive the testimony of the Holy Spirit that the gospel of Jesus Christ is true, then they have no argument against having been taught the gospel.
		On the other hand, if they don't receive the testimony of the Spirit, I don't see how they can be held accountable for something that they truly didn't believe was true.
		All right.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the with David Scott.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yes.
		Question is for Mr. Scott.
		All right.
		Okay.
		Mr. Scott, the spatial planes of realms that you're referring to, do you think of them as the same as parallel dimensions?
		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, that's a good question because they do exist on different vibrational levels or in different dimensions.
unidentified		Do you get circles within circles on this?
		I'm trying to define your concept.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Imagine the Earth.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now imagine concentric circles around the Earth.
unidentified		That's what I thought.
unidentified		The concentric circles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		One above the other.
		All right, ma'am, where are you?
unidentified		This is Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alaska.
		All right, very good.
		Thank you.
		And so then, concentric circles, different levels of spiritual existence that go outward from Earth?
unidentified		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The lowest ones being nearer the Earth, the highest spheres being further from the Earth.
		All right.
		On the first time caller line, you're on the air with David Scott.
unidentified		Hi.
		Oh, hi, Art.
		Yeah, this is Lee Fresno.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fresno, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, listen, David, I hate to tell you, but, you know, Jesus said that he is the way.
unidentified		He said, I am the way, the truth, and the life, and no man comes unto the Father except by me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he's confirmed that, Caller.
		I'm listening to this program, too, and I've heard him confirm that a number of ways.
		He simply said that people on other paths will come to the same point eventually, or that they can come to the same point eventually through a different path.
unidentified		Well, hopefully they'll be still living when that happens, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's not altogether certain.
		An individual, well, an individual will have the opportunity to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ.
		After all, when Christ did die on the cross, he did go to the spirit world and taught his gospel there.
		And so those spirits who lived, if Christ lived on the earth, never had the opportunity in this life to receive the gospel.
		And so he not only organized his gospel here on this earth, he also organized it in the spirit world, which tells me that if you don't have the opportunity here, you will have the opportunity there.
unidentified		Well, you know, as for myself, and I believe that most other Christians, so I think that we're just going to take the safe way and believe the pal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's fine.
		Nobody has said that you should not, sir.
		And whatever you're comfortable with is a fine path to be on.
		And if you're on the straight and arrow, that described in the Bible, I don't think anybody, certainly David, has no problem with that.
unidentified		Do you, David?
unidentified		Oh, absolutely not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is the place to do it.
unidentified		This is the place to perfect yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a lot easier here than it is in the spirit world, I'll tell you.
		All right.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the ill with David Scott.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		My name is Deanna, and I'm calling from Kentucky, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
unidentified		Hi there.
unidentified		I want to share with you my experience of when my mother passed away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please.
unidentified		And she was very ill for about 11 months.
		She was dying of cancer.
		She was in the hospital last few months, and she was in a coma.
		And the day of her death, all the family was around.
		I was to the side of her bed holding her hand.
		And I started to say a prayer to myself, which I didn't normally do.
		And as I was, I looked up through the ceiling, and I saw my grandmother that had passed away the year before she had, and a man, but I have no idea who he was.
		And as my grandmother and this man came through the ceiling, my grandmother said to my mother, come on, Aline, we have to go.
		That was her name, my mother.
		Right.
		And my mother said, oh, she didn't respond at that time.
		And I'm talking about telepathically, I guess, because my grandmother again said, come on, Aline, we have to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think that was telepathic communication?
unidentified		oh, spirit.
		But then I heard my mother say, I'm hurrying as fast as I can.
		Not only did I see my grandmother and whoever this other man was, but I also saw my mother's spirit come from the toes through her body, up through and left through, I guess what you call the third eye, and the three went off into the ceiling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, that must have been very comforting for you.
unidentified		It was wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I would also imagine, ma'am, I'm sorry, David, that it must have changed your life ever since.
unidentified		It has.
unidentified		It has tremendously.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		You know, Art, that's a fascinating story.
		And there's thousands, if not millions, of people all over the world who have had these kind of experiences.
		At the end of the program, if it's okay, I'd like to give out an address for people with these kind of stories to contact me with, because I would love to hear from them.
		You're more than welcome to, David.
		I think that this is very much like the UFO business that we follow.
		You get story after story after story to the point that it's just impossible to deny that it may be so, David.
		And maybe we're just hearing things that we want to hear.
		I don't know, but there are so many stories so specific like that lady that was just on that sound so real that I don't think it can be denied.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To me, it's just a reaffirmation of what I've already believed for three years.
		Well, that's what I say when I say we may be just sort of stoking up our own beliefs here, but I really think there is something to it.
		That's why I do this program, David.
		I think it's an important interchange.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with David Scott.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, where are you, sir?
unidentified		Wichita, Campbell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wichita, yes, sir.
unidentified		I just want to give you, I'm a born-again Christian, so I get a little perspective.
		The one thing I just want to make a couple quick points.
		One, Hebrews 9, 27 it says that it's committed to men once to die, then to judgment.
		So you can only accept Christ here on this earth.
		And after you die, your fate is determined.
		And once you die, the Bible says that either your spirit goes into eternal Hades or eternal waiting place for the final judgment, or it goes to be with the Lord in heaven.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But as far as you're concerned, no negotiating in the spirit world, huh?
unidentified		No, because Hebrews 9, 27 says, once the die, then the judgment, your spirit waits for judgment in either heaven or hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		Well, there you are, David.
		Here it is again.
		Somebody's saying, look, you're not going to do any negotiating or you're not going to be able to modify or change your behavior once you leave this earth.
		Everything then is already determined.
		Well, of course, I said it many times earlier that I know that that's not so.
		I think many times people interpret the scriptures to a way that they want it to mean.
		And it discounts a loving and gracious Heavenly Father or Mother, for that matter.
		Father loves all his children, and he wants all his children to return back to him.
		And he will provide them every opportunity to do so, however long it may take.
		Even in the spirit world.
		Even in the spirit world.
		All right, on the wildcard line, you're on the air with David Scott.
		Hi.
unidentified		Mr. Scott, you know, like the manipulation of vibration is like the contestance of musicianship.
		So do you think that maybe this could lead to a heightened, like, an acute ability to hear things in the spiritual and physical realm that others can't?
		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Put another way, are musicians closer to God?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, well, I'm a musician, so obviously that's true.
unidentified		I'm just kidding.
unidentified		Here's the thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Musicians, I don't know if occupation or artistic talent make any difference, but I do know that an individual who has the ability to raise their vibrational level will hear and see things that normal people or people on our lower vibrational levels cannot.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Well, do you have a favorite pre-20th century composer?
		A pre-20th century composer?
		Like before the turn of the century?
		I love Debusay.
		Oh, that is so cool.
		Can I ask you, if you have any comments on the infinite nature of the Overtone series, I'd be glad to hear them.
		Thank you.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's something I never studied for except for this program tonight.
		Listen, all right.
		While we're on the topic, or still near the topic of near-death experiences, you said you would like to hear from some people that have had them.
unidentified		Yes, I would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How would they contact you, David?
		They can contact me at P.O. Box10, Provo, Utah, 84603.
		Or they can call our book line number at 1-800-846-2233.
		I'm sorry, what were the last four?
		846-2233.
		2233.
		And that's if they'd like to order any of the two books I was talking about, Life in the World I'm Seeing and Heavenly Ways of Earth's Graduates.
		And that is your book, Heavenly Ways of Earth Graduates?
		The book that I've written is called The Way of the Ultimate Warrior.
		The Way of the Ultimate Warrior.
unidentified		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with David Scott.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
		Turn your radio off for us, please.
		And tell us where you're calling from.
unidentified		South Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		South Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		I just wanted to...

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