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Sept. 4, 1994 - Art Bell

02:06:04

Dreamland with Art Bell - Past Lives and Future Lives - Dr. Bruce Goldberg

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	This is a pre-recorded, previously broadcast program.
	Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience
	not easily nor neatly put in a box.
	Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped.
	We get things every bit as real as the air we breathe, but don't see.
	This is Greenland.
	From the high desert, it's Sunday evening and it's another Greenland.
	Good evening everybody, I'm Art Bell.
	We are going to go exploring about the possibility of a life after this life, and after the next life, and before this life, and before that life.
	Dr. Bruce Goldberg is going to be our guest this morning on Greenland.
	This morning?
	This evening.
	This evening.
	I guess in some areas I'll be right.
	This will be replayed and it'll be morning.
	At any rate, it's awfully good to be here.
	Going back east now, as we always do, our weekly reporter.
	The much-renowned Linda Howe.
	And so back now to Philadelphia and Linda Howe.
	Linda, good evening.
	He says, hi Linda!
	Hi!
	Can you hear me alright?
	I hear you just fine.
	Okay.
	I thought that I would start tonight updating that extraordinary story of the 1700 missing cattle from Waureka, Oklahoma.
	Friday I talked with both the Sheriff and with the President of First Farmer National Bank there.
	The first hard piece of data is that Mr. Richardson's cattle have four distinct brands, and so far as of Friday, none of those brands have shown up in any sale barns, which was one of the investigations by the Texas and Southwestern Cattle Raisers Association in Fort Worth.
	They sent investigators Between Texas, Oklahoma, and other states looking for these brands in the event that they had been stolen for resale.
	That's kind of the equivalent of the police going to pawn shops after a big burglary.
	Exactly.
	Now, the president of the bank said, told me that he knows in his bank that he holds many invoices of cattle purchases by the rancher Mr. Richardson.
	that would be equivalent to this number of animals and he said that Mr. Richardson has been a rancher for 30 years and has developed a style of matching cows with their newborns as pairs and then selling the cow and that calf and that is his business and that of the 1700 they were divided evenly between cows and their calves The sheriff did confirm it would have taken at least 25 double trailer trucks to have moved that many animals.
	And his problem is that they have not been able to come up with any evidence whatsoever that any kind of truck activity occurred in Waurika.
	And the sheriff is doubly puzzled because they have not been able to find evidence that there were that many cattle in this particular pasture.
	But there are mixed Uh, data on that.
	Uh, the banker says that he has, uh, seen, uh, the number of cattle, uh, that the rancher had reported, uh, or some form thereof.
	And as of Friday, this remains a mystery, and I learned two other details.
	Two other ranchers in Marica, Oklahoma, since the spring, have respectively lost approximately 25 head of their animals And they were reported to the bank, but they did not go into this kind of headline news.
	The assumption was that maybe they were rustled, but as of Friday, those cases had never been solved either, and those brands had never showed up in any of the sale barns.
	So, as of this Labor Day weekend, the 1,700 animals are still a mystery at the Sheriff's Office.
	And at the bank, and Mr. Richardson's residence in Warrick, Oklahoma.
	How could possibly that number of cattle just... Extraordinary, isn't it?
	Yes.
	And I kept thinking as I was talking to these people, and we were sticking just with the facts, but I could not help thinking about that interview that I did with one of our Dreamland listeners who wrote me this summer about finding the mutilated animal out in Sand Springs, Oregon.
	In a kind of depression in the ground with the ear missing, eye missing, tongue, genitals and rectum cut out and having that cow hint say to him, well I've seen these big white lights come at night and send down beams of light over these cattle and I've watched these cattle rise in these beams of light and then I've heard the cattle be dropped down to the ground.
	Alright Linda, I know that, I got a newspaper article from New Mexico Which talks about the incredible number of cattle mutilations there.
	In fact, the newspaper locally is calling for an investigation.
	And I know you've been reporting a lot of what's going on down there.
	Right.
	You are going out there, aren't you?
	Yes, and next Sunday I'll be reporting from New Mexico.
	And I will be talking with several of the veterinarians and the ranchers.
	And others that have been working with us on these cases that I have been giving updates on now since May 14th when we had two steers found at either end of a lake about two miles apart and Dr. John Altschuler in Denver flew down to meet a veterinarian, Tim Johnson, from Taos and they did tissue excisions and necropsies of those animals right in the field.
	I have videotape of it.
	And in both of those steers, under the microscope, the tissue had been cut with something hot enough to cook the hemoglobin.
	Why?
	So it is continuing to be an intense flurry of mutilations in northern New Mexico, and there's been a host of moving light, unidentified light sightings in southern Colorado, so who knows what I'm going to run into.
	But on this Labor Day weekend, as we are headed into the last quarter of 1994, I thought it would be valuable to go back to one of the most credible multiple eyewitness reports of unidentified aerial objects this entire year to date.
	It was March 8th, around 9.30 p.m.
	in Michigan.
	Dozens of 911 calls were being made to the police department in Holland City, Michigan.
	The police dispatcher recorded the calls and then phoned a National Weather Service radar operator to see if he could confirm the presence of anything in the sky.
	I have an audio tape dubbed from the unaltered master tape at the police department in Holland City, Michigan.
	First, I would like you to hear one of the very first callers who describes a circle of lights.
	All right.
	Direct from the PD up there, I guess.
	Have you heard anything about these lights that are flickering up here in the, what is it, the east, east-southeast area?
	It's strange.
	This device is way up in the sky.
	And we wondered if you had heard anything about it.
	And I was like, well, you might not have somebody take a look.
	It's different.
	I've never seen anything like it.
	I don't know.
	It's strange.
	But it's right out east-southeast.
	It's way up.
	And it's just a circle of a lot of different lights flickering.
	And it's different than an airplane.
	Now, I'm going to play for you.
	That was obviously, Linda, as the sighting was going on.
	That was pretty exciting.
	Well, yes, and it goes on.
	This tape has many of the eyewitnesses.
	And now, I'm going to play an excerpt from the conversation between the Holland City, Michigan police dispatcher and the radar operator who is seeing three and four objects on his radar screen between 6,000 and 12,000 feet elevation.
	Moving in a triangular formation, estimated to be 25 miles from end to end, and moving at enormous speed.
	Wow.
	Alright, go ahead.
	Once again with our new audio system.
	I think it's coming in.
	Yeah, I've never seen, now I'm getting multiple injuries.
	One of the people that called on it, I hit Dan Hampton to talk to, said it looked like a bunch of cylindrical objects.
	Oh my God, what is this?
	They were going together and coming apart.
	Yeah, well there's three, and they're lengthwise.
	And I'm getting a third one now and they're about, they're separated by about, looks like
	about 5,000 feet in height and about maybe, I'm not so sure, about maybe, I don't know,
	they're separated by about 60 kilometers.
	And they're very, they're very strong returns.
	I'm getting a real, they're spiking so it's something pretty, it's something pretty solid,
	no precipitation or anything, especially up at that height.
	Yeah, I'm not sure, in Highland City, just I made a message, he said, you know, can we
	identify any further, he said it looks like three to four of them.
	I'm seeing three, I'm seeing three and they're separated by, they look like a triangle on
	my scope.
	I'm looking one around down by, let's see, I'm seeing one down near South Haven, I'm seeing
	another one over Lake Michigan about northwest of Benton Harbor and another one over, well,
	west of or east of Merritt Harbor which would be I'm seeing three of those.
	They're very strong.
	I'm getting another one down in, uh, Berrien County.
	These are huge returns.
	I've never seen anything like this.
	Not even when I'm doing storms.
	These aren't storms.
	I've never seen anything like this.
	Not even when I'm doing storms.
	These aren't storms.
	They're just popping up all over the place.
	This is strange.
	The officer said that green and red lights, it does not look like an airplane.
	They come together and then they separate and they just keep doing that all the time.
	Boy, if that doesn't raise the hair on the back of your neck, nothing will.
	That's right.
	And after this March 8, 1994 report by dozens of Michigan residents, a policy of no comment ensued at the National Weather Service Office, which is a federally funded agency under the Department of Commerce.
	As always, Art, the question is raised.
	What does someone in the United States government know about this phenomenon that it does not want to share with us the public?
	That question has been important since the 1940s and now 50 years later is still unanswered.
	And I guess that's at the heart of why we do Dreamland.
	I guess it is, Linda.
	That's one of the best prepared presentations of a sighting I've ever heard.
	I mean, you've got the actual eyewitness screaming it to the police, then you've got the radar operators confirming it.
	That's right.
	And remember him saying he had never seen anything like this before during his weather radar experiences.
	These were solid spikes.
	This was not something that he was confusing at all with weather.
	In his line, they're beginning to spike.
	This is not weather.
	These are solid objects.
	That's right.
	And think about staying in the other parts of the tape, which we don't have time to go into.
	These are moving across the scope.
	You know how the scope, the hand sweeps around.
	They were moving at such a rapid rate and yet they were going in and out, in and out of this maintained triangular formation.
	What are the odds of getting a copy of some of that, Linda?
	In terms of, uh, you mean more of it?
	Well, an audio copy of it.
	Is there any chance you might get me an audio copy of what you've got?
	Yeah.
	I would really appreciate that.
	And then you might be able to use it further.
	You can depend on that.
	Yeah, I would very much appreciate a copy of that.
	And Linda, one more item.
	Gee, that was exciting.
	The other item is that tape which I had sent to you.
	Linda, I've obtained 35mm photographs of this creature from Puerto Rico.
	And I'm going to have them scanned and put up on the internet so everybody can get hold of them.
	I know that you have now seen the videotape and I talked with you a little while ago.
	Is that anything you recognize?
	No.
	And as I explained to you, I am going to show this videotape and the photos that I have to a zoologist at the university, one of the big
	universities here, and I will see what scientific comment there is,
	and hopefully do it as an audio cassette interview, and if there is any story here, I'll report it on an
	upcoming Dreamland in the next few weeks.
	All right. I will look forward to it.
	It sounds like your plate is full, and you're off to New Mexico.
	When do you actually leave, Linda?
	I will leave Wednesday, and by next Sunday, hopefully I will have some, I think, some very interesting
	eyewitness reports, as well as, we hope, some more information back from the
	veterinarian pathologists who have been studying the most recent animals in the world.
	And for those listeners who are not up to date, Eli Ronich, who I have interviewed and have done updates on the continuing A loss of his animals to this strange phenomenon had his up to his 15th mutilation this past week and another rancher not far from his ranch has had two and a mysterious death of a third animal bringing the total of the mutilations in that Angel Fire Espanola area of New Mexico up around Taos since May 14th
	uh... to uh... at least seven cases that we've worked on and we've heard that
	half a dozen other ranchers have had mutilations which they have not reported so
	uh... this is equivalent to the phenomenon last year in alabama that my
	new documentary strange harvest nineteen ninety three is about
	when they had over thirty reports of animal mutilations in northeastern alabama in a
	short period of time also
	okay i know you're uh... you're very busy linda but if you could possibly get
	that people often the before you take off for new mexico i sure would
	Alright.
	And the other thing is, Linda, a lot of people here listening to this program would like to write to you, so take a deep breath and give us your address slowly.
	It is Linda Howe, H-O-W-E at post office box 538 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
	English spelling H-U-N-T-I-N-G-D as in dog, O-N, Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
	And the zip code is 19006.
	And for those of you who have faxes, I'm happy to also get faxes at area code 215-491-9842.
	Wonderful.
	Linda, thank you.
	Good luck in New Mexico.
	Take care.
	All right.
	All right.
	Bye-bye.
	That's Linda Howe, and she will be coming to us from New Mexico.
	Next week, next Sunday on the program, so you're not going to want to miss that.
	Boy, there's a lot going on.
	I've never heard audio tapes.
	I've never heard audio tapes with that much solid witness evidence on them.
	That was good.
	Very good.
	All right, I want you to listen to me for a moment.
	If you have any savings, if you have investments, if you have money, you've got to hear this.
	Listen to me very carefully.
	Our money, the U.S.
	dollar, is in some trouble.
	It has been going down and down compared to the yen.
	The bond market has been in a devastating downward slide.
	There are problems on the horizon.
	Our government has said they will issue a new money.
	They announced that now two months ago.
	One for use inside the U.S., one for use outside the United States.
	So if you have some extra money, we are suggesting that you convert some of it to gold.
	It just makes sense.
	Gold always delivers.
	It's always there.
	It retains its value.
	Way back in the 30s, had you an ounce of gold in the form of a gold coin, and you held that money, until now, Then and now, you would be able to buy a fine wool suit with that gold.
	It's the best way I can think of to explain it.
	And, of course, $20 now wouldn't begin to buy you a fine suit.
	If you had a $20 bill, it would buy you today what you can get today for $20.
	But the gold would still get you the fine wool suit.
	That's the best way to explain how gold holds its value.
	So, call North American Trading and let them tell you all about gold, and they will.
	They've got a free newsletter.
	All you've got to do is call them in the morning.
	Make that Tuesday morning, I guess, at 1-800 877-9799.
	That number again, 1-800-877-9799.
	In just a moment, Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
	It's not that often that I get a chance to tell you all about a product that has affected my life, like the Alpine Air Purification System.
	And not just my life, but my wife's as well.
	My wife suffers with asthma, and believe me, our home is a very different place since we turned on the Alpine system.
	In my case, I blow it directly into the intake of my central air conditioning, and the entire house smells mountain fresh.
	The unit is totally portable.
	It requires no installation.
	Just plug it in, turn it on, and your air will become clean and energized just the way nature does it.
	You ever see a thunderstorm with all the lightning coming down, smell the ozone and the ions?
	Well, you've really got to experience this one to believe it.
	I'm a smoker, and it's amazing how it also gets rid of odors.
	On top of that, there's no real risk involved.
	No risk.
	You get a 30-day money-back guarantee.
	That's right.
	Try it and see for yourself how it works.
	So if you've got allergies, asthma, or if you just care about the air you breathe, and that's the best reason, call 1-800-717-HOPE.
	Order your Alpine air purification system.
	I tell you, your home or office will start smelling like mountain air.
	The Alpine system is rock solid.
	It's built to run 24 hours a day and last 15 years.
	So call them at 1-800-717-HOPE.
	That's 1-800-717-HOPE.
	It's your air, and it's your health.
	Dr. Goldberg, right after the break at the bottom of the hour, let me tell you a little bit about Dr. Goldberg.
	He graduated from Southern Connecticut State College in June of 1970, earned a BA degree in biology and chemistry.
	...attended the University of Maryland School of Dentistry, receiving his Doctor of Dental Surgery degree, May of 1974.
	Upon completion of a general practice residency program in dentistry, he set up both a general dental and hypnosis practice in Baltimore, where he practiced until 1989.
	Dr. Goldberg moved his hypnotherapy practice to Los Angeles in 1989, and then retired from dentistry at that point.
	In 1984, Dr. Goldberg received an M.S.
	degree in Counseling Psychology from Loyola College.
	The American Society of Clinical Hypnosis trained Dr. Goldberg in the techniques and clinical applications of hypnosis in January of 1975.
	This organization trains only licensed dentists, physicians, and psychologists in the use of hypnosis.
	Dr. Goldberg has appeared on a lot of television and radio shows throughout the country.
	He's conducted live, past-life regressions on Donahue, Oprah, Joan Rivers, Regis, Kathie Lee, and other CNN stations.
	Throughout, through lectures, television and radio appearances, and newspaper articles, including interviews in Time and the Washington Post, he's been able to educate many people as to the benefits of hypnosis.
	He's conducted more than 30,000 past life regressions and future life progressions since 1975, and none of his patients have ever been harmed through the use of these techniques.
	In addition, Dr. Goldberg distributes cassette tapes to teach people self-hypnosis and to guide them into past and future lives.
	Dr. Goldberg gives lectures and seminars on hypnosis and regression and progression therapy as well.
	He's also a consultant to corporations, attorneys, and the local network media.
	So if you've ever wondered whether you lived before and may live again, this is going to be an evening you're not going to want to miss.
	He just had a CBS movie entitled The Search for Grace.
	I know he's proud of it.
	He should be.
	I saw it.
	It was a wonderful movie.
	Dr. Goldberg is next.
	From the Kingdom of Nye, this is Dreamland with Art Bell on the CBC Radio Network.
	Well, good evening everybody.
	I'm still, um, that report from Linda Howe is still Resonating within my brain, that was really something.
	Dr. Bruce Goldberg is going to talk to us about lives, past lives, future lives.
	The foreword to his book, by the way, is by Raymond Moody, Dr. Moody, who has been a guest here any number of times.
	This is an area of particular fascination for me, as many of you know.
	So now, to Dr. Goldberg.
	Dr. Goldberg, are you there?
	I certainly am, Jim.
	It's a pleasure to reincarnate with you.
	Oh, yes, to reincarnate with us.
	This is what they call in football, a three-peat.
	That's right.
	Look, a lot of people, even though we warned them and promoted your movie, don't know about Search for Grace.
	The Search for Grace.
	Tell them about your movie and about that case, doctor.
	Well, one of the criticisms that not only my work, but my colleagues have had over the years, is that even though the clinical cases are very dramatic and very impressive, and of course that's my main purpose, People come to my Los Angeles office, not to document lives, but to solve clinical issues.
	But they say, well, can you prove it?
	Can you substantiate with evidence?
	And what I did was I had a case that was approached to me by a producer who wanted to do a movie for CBS.
	And I said, OK, so I went to my files, and there was a patient of mine that I worked with on the East Coast.
	I regressed her into 46 lives.
	And number 46 was a life that she lived in Buffalo, New York, as a woman who was, shall we say, A very disturbed woman, if you will, a woman who was unhappily married, and she was having numerous affairs on her husband, and finally she met up with the wrong guy at the wrong time, and he murdered her on May 17th, 1927, Buffalo.
	Her name was Grace Doze, and she gave me about three dozen facts and trance, which were very specific, including her last name, where she lived, her mother's maiden name, her husband's occupation, where he worked, etc.
	And, uh, I, uh, did initial research just to check on the velocity of this.
	And, of course, the newspapers report murders the last couple hundred years or so.
	You'll always read about some, even if you're a Jane Doe.
	And, in fact, they did have this, uh, case where, uh, the name was checked out and a few facts were checked out.
	So I then, uh, just did the initial research.
	And then I turned it over to, uh, uh, CBS themselves.
	And they had an independent researcher verify the other material.
	As it turned out, Out of about the three dozen facts she gave, not only were every one of them verified, with the exception of two.
	Two of the facts that she gave were in dispute, which of course was a problem, but not a big problem.
	And the two facts where she said that she was 32 years old when she was murdered, and she was not looking forward to a 33rd birthday, and that her son's name was Cliff.
	Now, the newspaper reports that she was 30 years old, and they said her son's name was Chester Jr., Chester being her husband.
	My husband's first name.
	As it turned out, doing the research, now New York being a closed state, you cannot just go into the Department of Public Health records and look up a birth certificate as you can in California and probably can in Nevada.
	What you have to do is you have to go to the governor's office, and you have to fill out a requisition slip, and you have to go to a big bureaucracy.
	CBS got that commission, of course, with no problem.
	As it turned out, in 65 years, 1927 to 1992, the only entity, meaning a person or corporation or any other
	specific situation, to request and to get permission to get into the records was CBS News in 1992.
	And as it turned out, she was right, the reporters were wrong. She was born on January 21st, 1895. She was 32 years
	old. Her son's name was Clifford C. Doze.
	And the only way she could have known that is one of two ways.
	Either she was in fact the reincarnation of Grace Dove, which is what I feel she is, or somehow she accessed her soul.
	Either way, it establishes reincarnation, or at least a life after death, or a permanence of the soul.
	Alright, how do we know, Doctor?
	You know, Doctor John Mack was on our show a couple of weeks ago, and he was set up by a lady.
	Um, and, uh, and she got him.
	I don't know if you're familiar with that story or not.
	No.
	Uh, Dr. John Mack was set up.
	Um, a lady came and, uh, told him a story and he made it part of his book, uh, one of many case studies.
	And she came back later and said, ha ha ha, it was a setup.
	I set you up.
	None of this really happened.
	Okay.
	And I'm just wondering, um, what, how can you know for sure that, um, she did not research this lady's life and, and get the facts?
	Because the only way, she was not a member of the family.
	Okay, that, that's a given.
	She was from a totally different part of the country.
	And even if she did research the facts, you see, I'll accept that premise.
	The problem here is that this is now one of the most documented cases of the century.
	It's even better than the Bridie Murphy case, because now we have the real, we call her Ivy.
	It's not her real name, but that's what I call her.
	Uh, if she did research the facts, she would have given all the information that was in the newspaper report, including the false data of her age and her son's name.
	She could not possibly have known that.
	In fact, I tell you, I had an interesting confrontation.
	I was doing an interview the day before the movie.
	The movie aired May 17th, and on May 16th I was interviewed on WGR Radio in Buffalo, which is a 50,000 watch station, which I've worked with for about 12 years or so.
	I've done interviews on and off over the years.
	And the host of the show, who's an old friend of mine, his name is Tom Barrelly, you may know him.
	And Tom says, you know, I did some research, Doctor, and I have a person I want to speak to.
	And I said, sure.
	Now, what he said was that the Department of Public Health said that for $10, anybody can walk in there and get the birth certificate of anyone, including Governor Cuomo.
	Right.
	Right?
	And I said, really?
	I said, let me speak to the person.
	Using my L.A.
	Law cross-examination vest.
	Right.
	And I spoke to him.
	He's a very nice gentleman.
	He's a supervisor.
	And he said that, oh, excuse me, but Doctor, I think before you even ask me any questions, that there's been an error here.
	You see, Mr. Bally spoke to one of my employees in reference to that, and my employee gave him the wrong information.
	You see, I am the supervisor, and any request for birth certificate goes to my office before they're released.
	Nobody...
	Jesus Christ couldn't get a birth certificate without having a family member, being a family member, or having an absolute permission granted.
	There's nobody that can get in here without a request filled out, signed in triplicate, and filed in the Department of Public Health.
	Right.
	So what he did was totally validate the idea that she could not have possibly known.
	There's no way she could have known.
	Not only that, but grace those, what people don't know unless they read the new book, is that this is a woman whose family disowned her.
	I mean, nobody wants, there's no pictures of her, there's no, uh, there's I mean, there's legal records of her marriage and her birth and her death certificate, of course, but this is not the person that people talk about at Thanksgiving dinner.
	This is a woman who was just ostracized, if you will.
	So there's no way that it's physically impossible for her without getting into the Department of Health records, unless she did a James Bond routine.
	There's no way she could have possibly gotten that information, and that makes it extremely very valuable, especially those two facts.
	Now, in John Mack's case, I don't know about that case, but I'll tell you what, I guarantee I can tell you the source.
	The source is most likely an organization called Sissy Cop, based in Buffalo, New York, by a man named Paul Kurt.
	A name I'm sure you probably know.
	He's a parapsychological debunker who would like to use magicians to settle people.
	But this woman, not only does she not, do I know she was not set up because of that, but here's another interesting fact.
	Here's a woman who, she refused all interviews.
	I'm like her agent here.
	She refused to go on, all the panel shows wanted to do interviews with her, and in fact people now want to.
	In fact, major magazines and newspapers wanted to interview her.
	She refuses any and all publicity.
	She's not...
	Yeah, it's another good measure.
	Yeah.
	And I guess you also, by the way, another thing too, is here's another interesting measure.
	People always talk about the finances.
	You know, they always like to get down to the old greenbacks.
	And this is not gold coins, but American dollars.
	But what they said to me was that, well, what about the right piece?
	Well, Ivy, or the real Ivy, signed over the rights to me.
	She did not get a cent from this.
	In fact, her advice to me was, prior to me dealing with CBS, she said, I want you, Dr. Goldberg, to get the message out in only the way you know how to do.
	Which means, of course, using the media for education and getting the point across, as I am well known to do.
	So here's a woman who got nothing out of this.
	Zero.
	I mean, no one knows who she is except for me.
	In fact, I'll show you another validation, which is kind of indirect.
	I got a call from an attorney in Buffalo, New York, who called me about a few days after the movie aired.
	The granddaughters of Grace Phillips, who are alive, they're baby boomers, if you will, they had to contact an attorney to get to contact me.
	They want to meet the real Ivy, because they obviously believe that she is the reincarnation of their grandmother.
	And so, I mean, here is an attorney and four granddaughters, one of which who looks exactly like the real Grace Stowes, have already contacted me trying to get me to hook up with the real Ivy.
	So, I mean, there's so much information coming up here.
	There's so many things that are happening that are just, there's nothing to disavow it.
	There's everything to support it.
	And like I say, what is her benefit?
	She has nothing to gain by it.
	So, I mean, this is something that the research itself was very properly done, and it was done by an independent organization, not by me.
	And therefore, you know, I mean, there's no way to disavow it.
	So, I mean, this is not going to be a reincarnation of what Dr. John Mack went through.
	All right.
	Doctor, I want to understand what launched you into this whole search in the first place.
	In other words, how did you get from retirement, dental retirement, To where you are now.
	What launched you into this search to find out about reincarnation?
	First, when you mention retirement from dentistry, which is true, although I do do malpractice consulting, you have to understand your listeners who do not know me, I am a very young retired dentist.
	When I was going to college in the late 60's and dental school in the early 70's, I in the 60s I was not interested in watching plays or the
	movie like Hair.
	I had no interest in reincarnation.
	I was a very straight biochemical biochemistry student at Southern Connecticut State College
	in New Haven.
	So I had no interest whatsoever in any form of metaphysics until about 1972 when I took
	an astrology course.
	I started reading about astrology and then I read the Briding Murphy case.
	Maury Bernstein subsequently has become a very good friend.
	But I read the Briding Murphy case and I found that as a scientist and clinician I found
	extremely interesting i think you know i want to put this hypothesis
	In dental school, I decided I wanted to use hypnosis for pain control and apprehension control, which is very important.
	It's an excellent use for dentistry and I used it for 13 years in my dental practice.
	However, I wanted to test the hypothesis while I was a resident being trained in Florida I took a course by the American Society of Clinical Hypnosis, which, by the way, does not believe in, nor in any way accept the concept of reincarnation.
	I mean, they're a very hard-line, very conservative, very straight-laced, if not reactionary group.
	I sure didn't get my stimulation from them.
	I see.
	And the very first patient I decided to test this on was a friend of mine.
	She was a graduate student at Florida State University in social work.
	And she went into nine different lives.
	Which I thought was interesting.
	Now, now, now, wait a minute.
	You said you decided to test it on one of your patients.
	What made you, was it the earlier research you had done?
	I mean, what culminated in, hey, I know hypnosis.
	I'm going to try this and I'm going to see if there's anything to it.
	That must have been quite a step.
	Actually, it really wasn't.
	I'll tell you why.
	I'll tell you why that wasn't such a big quantum leap.
	The quantum leap was taking, was deciding to do the hypnosis for dental purposes and to use it in my practice, which is what the American Society trained me to use it for.
	While I was being trained, one of the psychiatrists who was training me, You're a young doctor and I was just right out of dental school.
	Most people take this course for the CE units and they go home and they put a plaque on the wall and they talk to their grandchildren about it later on, but no one ever uses it.
	Very few of us ever use it because you are very talented.
	You've got a great voice and technique and you're very assertive and you've got a lot of characteristics here that are ideal.
	From my perspective, I want you to use this in your practice.
	I said, I drove hundreds of miles to take this class and I didn't do it just to impress my wall with my other degrees.
	I said, I intend to use this very fully.
	So that was a very nice compliment.
	When I got back though, testing the hypothesis, you don't just read about hypnosis, you have to do it.
	It's a very clinical and very hands-on approach, if you will.
	So using hypnosis on my, this was admittedly a patient who was a friend of mine, a colleague, if you will, later on.
	She said, look, if you're going to do hypnosis, why don't you do it with me?
	I think this is kind of fun.
	I'd like to try it.
	You know, it's relaxing.
	It's automatically a positive thing to do.
	So I think the worst I could do is just learn a few techniques and, you know, if I fail, whatever, it's a friend of mine.
	No harm, no foul, as they say.
	I would think anybody who would volunteer for it would automatically be considered to be a good prospect, wouldn't they?
	Well, she was open-minded.
	What I didn't know until later on, until after working with her, was that she was a somnambulist, which is the relatively rare kind of person, about 1 in 20, who can actually go into a very deep level of trance, speak foreign languages fluently in trance, and even give enough information for complete validation.
	But that really wasn't my interest at the time.
	I didn't perceive it at that time.
	I didn't do progression and focus on me doing a documented case on CBS in 1974.
	As it turned out, she went into these nine different lives.
	And what was interesting was that While I was working with her, I wasn't doing anything therapeutic, at least purposely.
	I was just using experiments, techniques, and asking questions, and finding out how to deepen the lead-trans level, and doing some of the things that we do in hypnosis.
	She had two habits and a phobia that I wasn't even aware of.
	She was a smoker, but a very infrequent one.
	She had a bulimic habit, which is an eating disorder, which of course is easy to hide, if you don't live with the person, or don't know them that well.
	And then she also had a fear of water, which I didn't know, because we used to go to the beach I don't know.
	And she would never go into water, but you know a lot of women don't like to do it because
	of skin issues or whatever, they just like to sun tan themselves, but she was afraid
	of the water.
	As a result of going through these regressions, she overcame each of those three issues.
	And I wasn't even trying to work with her, I never gave her any direct suggestions or
	any techniques.
	She just by going through the experience and by going through what I didn't know at the
	time was a technique I was led to document and develop called the super conscious mind
	type which we'll talk about, was able to actually help her to raise her own soul's energy and
	rise above the issue like the immune system if you will and was able to permanently, I
	mean I knew her for about 13 years or 12 or 13 years later.
	She eventually moved up to the East Coast and I knew her professionally as she was a colleague.
	So here's a woman who overcame these issues very, very extremely.
	So that really got me into the idea that you know something, this deserves more attention.
	I immediately developed a part-time practice even before I developed my full-time, my dental practice.
	I was actually a resident at the time and when I moved back to Baltimore to open my dental office, I practiced dentistry only two years full-time.
	and hypnotherapy part-time within two years hypnotherapy was now my full-time
	practice and dentistry was about ten hours a week so it was a very
	intense dedication and commitment very early to hypnotherapy.
	Alright, something I really want to ask you about
	in it it's that moment in other words you may have heard read done research
	about people with prior lives and all the rest of it but I doubt that it can compare to getting your first subject
	under and that moment when you realize you have led them
	into another life it must have raised the hair on the back of your neck
	Well, it did.
	What happened was that, see, what happened first in dealing with my colleague here, she went through the life that she went through first, was a life in which she drowned on board a ship in about the early 1700s.
	And she went through the death experience, including the suffocation and everything that, the helplessness and the hopelessness of drowning, what it means, which is not something that people would want to think of how to spend a nice Sunday
	evening.
	And that experience which was very emotional but of course perfectly safe at the same time
	when I saw that, when I saw the intensity, this is a woman who was, I knew her, she was
	a very bright, very quick mind, very global, very open minded person.
	But here's a woman who is not an actress.
	She wasn't a theater major, she was a social work major.
	And here she was going through these contortions, these intense things.
	And I said, boy, this isn't real, but I'm going to eat my proverbial hat.
	And as it turned out, this was very critical in an immediate relief of that particular
	phobia which again I didn't know existed.
	And within about three or four days, when I saw her next, she was swimming in the, you know, in the ocean, not just watching it.
	And that was, to me, extremely impressive.
	I said, boy, this is, you know, this is like when the student is ready, the teacher will be there, and Stephanie is the mother of the proverbial invention.
	So, in other words, you hope to get back on the horse and ride again.
	Basically, I like to think of myself as not really solving people's problems or curing people, but simply training them to do it themselves.
	and what I did with her was train her to access literally her higher self which we'll talk
	about and she was able to overcome these issues really mostly by herself, just needed a little
	what I call karmic tweak as I call it.
	But the effect upon me was dramatic in the sense that I thought to myself, whoa, this
	is like the light bulb going over your head or this is the thing that I said to myself,
	I'm going to now devote more time to this, I'm going to check this out and I'm going
	to do more and more of it.
	She referred a lot of her classmates to me and other people that she knew in town.
	This was Tallahassee, Florida, which was a Florida State University.
	Hold on, Doctor.
	We'll be right back to you.
	My guest is Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
	He'll be back in a second.
	Do you have hard water?
	I certainly did.
	I have well water.
	to work with and it just got more and more interesting and more and more therapeutic.
	All right, well that's how it all happened. Hold on doctor, we'll be right back to you.
	My guest is Dr. Bruce Goldberg. He'll be back in a second.
	Do you have hard water?
	I certainly did. I have well water. Really good water as a matter of fact, except it was hard as
	well water would be. And it does a lot of predictable things.
	Decreases water pressure as it clogs your pipes.
	This, uh, uh, this, um, uh, I don't know what you'd call it.
	Uh, gunk.
	Junk.
	Um, and, it'll, it'll put spots on your glassware.
	You'll know you have it if you have that.
	Pours suds in, uh, soap and shampoo in the shower.
	Uh, you already know about all that.
	So, if you have hard water, you know about it.
	It's scaling is what it's really called.
	Out at the end of the water pipe, I had a lot of it, and, uh, Uh, or at least some of it.
	And when they put this on, they said, look, in a few days, it's going to start falling off.
	And sure enough, it did.
	I would never have advertised this had I not first used it.
	Then the scaling and the pipes broke out too.
	And then my water began to clear.
	And when it did, it was fantastic.
	And it is.
	This water is better for your skin, hair, food, clothes, appliances, car, pool, spas, whatever you've got that uses water.
	It's all done with space-age magnetic technology.
	That's GMX.
	It's a magnetic conditioning, water conditioning system.
	It's about $400 for the average residence.
	Comes with a 90-day money-back guarantee.
	If it does not do what we say it does, you get your money back.
	Simple as that.
	Call toll-free 1-800-400-1999.
	That's 1-800-400-1999.
	And now the C. Crane Company and the D.L.
	Digital Telephone.
	I spend a lot of time on the telephone, folks.
	That's 1-800-400-1999.
	And now the Sea Crane Company and the DL Digital Telephone.
	I spend a lot of time on the telephone, folks.
	Half my life, it seems.
	And so, of course, a portable telephone is just the ticket for me.
	Except I couldn't stand normal, portable telephones.
	Your neighbors interfere.
	You get hummed, click, disconnect.
	You know how they sound.
	I get them here on the air.
	You know how they sound.
	Usually real hummy and wishy.
	What does happen to us, past lives, future lives, Are there rules to reincarnation?
	Is everybody reincarnated?
	What's the deal?
	Well, the deal is actually more fully explained.
	I'll summarize it for you, but in my older book, Past Lives, Future Lives, the Ballantyne publication, I go through the chapter where I talk about what happens in
	between lives and how you choose your next life.
	In fact, there are techniques and tapes that are available that people can actually go
	through that experience.
	I call that the super-conscious and the soul plane.
	We can talk about that later too.
	But basically what happens is that when the soul, you have to understand the soul is equivalent
	to this radio signal.
	This radio signal is electromagnetic radiation.
	Television signal is also the same kind of radiation.
	It's harmless radiation.
	Yes.
	Right?
	And your soul is, and we've proven this scientifically over many years, this soul is, in fact, electromagnetic radiation.
	We can photograph it, we can weigh it, we can, uh, we can prove it exists or not.
	Wait a minute, you're running too fast.
	We can weigh the soul?
	Well, interestingly, there was a man named McDougal in the early part of the century who did a, uh, a study where he had people on these, they had, of course, signed permission for this.
	He had these on these very large analytical balances.
	When I was studying chemistry, we used to use these very fine balances to measure very small weights of matter.
	Well, he had a gigantic version of these analytical balances, and what he did was he had people who were about to die, and they gave him permission to allow them to weigh them while they were dying.
	And what happened was that at the moment of death, upon the expiration, And of course, they were hooked up with various, you know, machines to show when they actually physically crossed the spirit, as we call it, or clinically died.
	Yes.
	There was about a three-quarter of an ounce of difference in the weight.
	Oh, my.
	And that was actually quite a reliable study.
	I've heard of this, and so you're telling me that was a real study.
	Oh, yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	McDougal was a very qualified man.
	Well, what happened to that data?
	Well, the data's around, just that the study was done about 1913, so scientists today, nobody has decided to replicate that recently that I know of.
	Why not?
	Well, you have to understand, you're dealing with a litigant in society, and how many people, it's hard to get bodies cadavered for medical school, let alone people to put themselves on balance.
	Right, would you lie here while you die, please?
	I don't think you're going to teach me, as in the paper, please sign up and call this number, 1-800-DEAD.
	How many, do you know how many individuals were involved in that study?
	I really don't.
	I read the original study years ago, about 20 years ago, but it was a study that was done, I believe it was done in Duke, but I'll have to double check.
	Anyway, it was a real bona fide study and it can be searched.
	That's incredible.
	Alright, we're at the top of the hour, so I've got to pause here.
	Dr. Bruce Goldberg is my guest.
	Past Lives, Future Lives, that incidentally title of a book he's also written.
	We'll be back.
	From the Kingdom of Nine, you're hearing Greenland with Art Bell.
	To participate in the program, call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
	1-800-618-8255.
	First-time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
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	Network.
	Good evening to all you three-quarters of an ounce tights.
	Maybe some of the... I wonder if it varies around.
	Some have more soul than others.
	There's a question to ask.
	We'll get back to Dr. Goldberg and ask it in just a moment.
	We were talking about the idea of the in-between life state, and I was referring to the idea that the soul or the subconscious mind, which is identical to a radio or TV signal, meaning electromagnetic radiation, in neurology or medicine we refer to this as the alpha brainwave level, which has been documented since the early 50s.
	Well, as it turns out, what happens is that there is a rather standard scenario that occurs during the in-between life experience.
	But first, let me just go back to the scientific aspect of this.
	We can weigh the soul.
	It's approximately three quarters of an ounce, as was done in the early 1900s.
	We can photograph it.
	Krillian photography, developed by the Russian researcher Krillian in the early 40s, shows that you can take the human aura, or the soul, that you can actually photograph.
	Alright, I have a question about that.
	What is Krillian photography actually taking a picture of?
	In other words, I can imagine that a human body would have an aura of A thermal energy around it, or even some kind of very weak electromagnetic energy.
	What is it photographing?
	What you're actually photographing is the actual soul, because what goes on here is that the thermodynamic energy you're referring to, such as our 98.6 body temperature, would not emanate very far off the body.
	No, it would not.
	Early photography shows that when the animal, human or lower animal or even plant, There's a dramatic increase in the aura around the body.
	You can't do that with thermodynamic or with the electromagnetic.
	It's like the gravity around the Earth doesn't change very much.
	Alright, then my question is, what force, well you're going to say the force of the soul, what force is it actually measuring?
	Scientifically, it's got to be seeing something we can measure.
	Electromagnetic radiation is worth measuring.
	That's about right.
	Electromagnetic radiation?
	But there's no transformer pumping up the voltage.
	It's not becoming a 100,000 watt signal from a 50,000 watt.
	The body doesn't change that much.
	So then what permutations in the aura are you able to observe?
	Well I mean you have to understand when they take these photographs, a photograph is a photograph, we don't know the exact myth of what they're getting, it is definitely the representation of our aura or our electromagnetic field around our body, but the point is that it does violate most of the physical laws that we're trained in.
	Right.
	I've just never understood Kirlian photography.
	What kind of special process is being used?
	What kind of photograph?
	Not just regular... Well, we're going to have to reincarnate the late Dr. Kirlian to find out because I've never done the procedure.
	I've just seen the photograph.
	But basically what we say, we can photograph it, we can weigh it, we can observe the phenomena via automatic lighting and other indirect ways of perceiving the presence of a soul.
	So we know that the soul, there's no question, that is not even a debate anymore.
	It hasn't been for many decades.
	For some people, doctor, it is.
	It is, but not for scientists, okay?
	Alright.
	The late public, you know, there's a Flat Earth Society too, but I'm not a member, you know?
	I don't have a card.
	Anyway, so the presence of the soul is important because it does actually show that there is a life after death.
	And of course, things like the documented cases and other things that we can do just only add to the data.
	What happens in between lives is very interesting.
	You mentioned a very good, a very dear friend and a very qualified man, Ray Moody, who of course termed the term near-death experience in 1975 in his book, Life After Life.
	Well, as it turns out, his experience, the core experience of a near-death experience, is very similar to what happens when a person actually does die in a past life.
	What they do is they do go through the tunnel, if you will, most of them do.
	There's a variation, but there's a core experience there.
	They do have the presence of light and colors and sometimes sounds.
	They do have the presence of a guardian angel, if you will, a loved entity.
	It might be an image of a Christ or another religious leader.
	uh... image of a grandparent or some other person that they've known who's
	on the other side uh... they do have this feeling of of uh... empowerment of
	of peace freedom from physical whatever they were suffering from
	whether it be a heart attack or a spear in the chest whatever it may be
	and of course they're always perfectly safe when they do this
	Now, what happens in between the mechanism now?
	Well, again, I want to stop you for a second.
	I saw a couple of physicians.
	I think it was, oh, I don't know, it was CBS or some network recently did something on the near-death experience.
	They had physicians who came on presenting the other side saying, look, The brain has synapses as the brain dies.
	It dies from the outside, rushing toward the center, so we are not surprised that people who are dying see a bright white light that gets smaller and smaller and more intense as the outer portions of the brain die.
	How would you counter that?
	Well, I would counter it very simply, and I would counter it not only with the work of Ray Moody, but also with a very good colleague and a mutual friend of ours, Dr. Kenneth Ring from the University of Connecticut.
	It's a great book, but it's very technical.
	What happens here is that, you see, what Dr. Ring reported, and Dr. Ring didn't really report this that much until later on.
	Ring was the one who really focused on the idea of precognitions as a characteristic of near-death experience.
	What happened was that Dr. Ring would report in his book, and subsequent books afterwards, that people would have these premonitions of future events, and they were documented.
	They logged them in the new computers, and they kept registries of these.
	and these people would not only perceive them at the corner of a room where they could see the dials of what their
	blood pressure was when they were having a near-death experience,
	which of course they can't see when you're lying on a sled in an OR,
	but they also would report their cousin getting in a car accident three weeks ahead and things like that that were
	actually documented.
	Now I know the woman, it was a woman that was on this network, especially I saw it myself,
	and I understand her power-smith and her mentality, but she also has a reputation of being very hard-nosed,
	anti-power psychology.
	You have to understand there's no such thing as an objective opinion.
	What you can't describe though, what you can't explain, she was dealing with the neurophysiology
	of which I have a background and I understand what she was saying, but you can't explain
	the precognition or what I call progression in parent-wife mutualized where these events
	actually come true.
	They do not come true when people are out of this near-death experience in the normal
	way he said.
	When I talk about psychics or sensitives or people who have that experience, I'm talking
	about only people who have had this experience as a result of the near-death experience.
	Okay.
	So therefore, that gives again indirect but very substantial evidence.
	Anyway, they go through, there are various different procedures.
	Everybody has their own mentality.
	For example, in parent-wife mutualized, I described a talk show host from Baltimore
	who is now in New York, Harry Martin who is now at WABC-TV in New York, who went to this
	like dome experience where he would choose his next life.
	He was in like a dome experience in almost the equivalent of a network headquarters where
	you'd have monitors showing all your parent-wives, your future options and then he would have
	his nurses and guides, his higher self would be there, his departed relatives, all kinds
	of devices for what to choose in his next life.
	Other people might report being on the Himalayan mountain tops or whatever you feel comfortable
	with what you're given but there is an in-between life state where you are at.
	Aspecting what we call your higher self which as you'll see is very important for the therapeutic
	Components of what I do all right. I've got a touch on it Religion is going to mix in all of this for a lot of people
	and so I would ask you is there any report?
	that these people give of a review a judgment of any sort with regard to the life just
	lived You know, it's very interesting.
	That question has come up in the past, and I'll tell you, I don't know anybody in the world that has the experience I have of doing over 30,000 aggressions on 10,000 individual people in 20 years, and I have never had that.
	I've never had anybody ever report to me what you're calling the judgment or the judgment day, if you will.
	What they get is a very objective overview Of what they've done, and not focusing in on their faults, but simply, okay, now this is what you've done, and this is what needs to be done, and this is what your options are, and what do you want to do?
	That's a kind of a judgment though, isn't it?
	Not really.
	A judgment to me is when you, like, you are bad evil, you go to hell, you go to heaven, you go to purgatory.
	That's judgment.
	Well, yes, but maybe we are in the end required to in effect judge ourselves.
	Well, you could always say, Judgey, not let thee be judged.
	But what I'm thinking is that there isn't the idea of somebody, some white bearded, white sheeted person with pointy fingers, so to speak.
	It's a very objective, very beautiful, peaceful, ethereal experience that's described in various different forms, but that seems to be the bottom line when you have this overview.
	So I call it global assessment.
	And this is done from what we call the soul plane.
	I described the various plane concepts in past lives, future lives, for those of you listening that are interested in more detail.
	This is basically gotten from metaphysical literature.
	But basically, they have this, they're on a different dimension, if you will, where there are no physical laws as we know it.
	Anytime you leave the Earth plane, even in a near-death experience, assuming that you're going to what we call the astral plane or the next highest plane, there are no physical laws as we know it.
	in this space time continuum which means that past, present and future are all simultaneous
	which is more fully explained in the new book The Search for Grace which is just cut off
	the presses published by In Print Publishing and is just out now.
	And what I'm trying to say is that you have a way of where you have the choice.
	It's not like where people say you know I just I have bad karma so that's why I've done
	what I've done.
	That's what I call the karmic cop out or the ex-fusitis as I call it.
	And to me that I will always confront as you know me I'm not exactly a shy person.
	I will always say look you choose this.
	You may have made some mistakes, or maybe you didn't follow the path that you wanted to do,
	You may have made some mistakes or maybe you didn't follow the path that you wanted to
	do but you can always correct it.
	but you can always correct it.
	There are very few things in life that you really can correct.
	There are very few things in life that you really can't correct.
	In fact quantum physics which is the basis of this field says that our thoughts create
	In fact, quantum physics, which is the basis of this field, says that our thoughts create the reality.
	the reality.
	Therefore the only thing that we know of the universe and I can assure of this is there's
	Therefore, the only thing that we know in the universe, and I can be sure of this,
	is there's only one mind out there, and that is your mind, or my mind, or your listener's mind.
	only one mind out there and that is your mind or my mind or I will always say, look, you choose this.
	We don't know there's any other mind out there.
	We don't know what else even exists in reality, but we do know that our thoughts do create a reality.
	In fact- All right, a quick technical question about this plane.
	When you're on this plane, I take it you have a kind of consciousness,
	and your consciousness is a product of the life just lived, and you retain that until the moment
	you make your choice about the next?
	You actually retain, now you retain the life of which you just lived, but you also,
	this is what we call your ultimate consciousness, which is, by the way, a constant in quantum physics
	equations.
	That's how scientific it is.
	You have a consciousness and an awareness of all your past lives.
	All your future lives, all your parallel frequencies, and all the possible combinations and permutations
	for you to select from.
	It is a global menu.
	Wow.
	See, so this is why there's no excuse I have suggested.
	Now, people can always deny things and use their defense mechanisms as people want to do, but the point of my therapy is to get people beyond the defense mechanism.
	Doctor, while you're on that plane, it seems to me that almost, for some people, might be considered to be an eternal hell.
	That is, sentenced to live life after life after life after life after life.
	Well, actually, you have the right The eternal hell that people would describe.
	This is going to offend certain people and I'm not running for office.
	Basically, according to my research and my experience, and again, it is voluminous, the hell that we talk about or people have related to is really the earth plane.
	What you're living in right now is the hell.
	There's nothing below the earth plane, no matter how you slice it.
	I've never had any evidence of anything below the earth plane.
	Put another way, this is as bad as it gets.
	As bad as you allow it to be.
	You can always improve things.
	I mean, I have dramatic cases that are reported in both books.
	I mean, Ivy, there's a woman, let's just deal with Ivy for a moment, the real Ivy, was murdered by the same man 20 times.
	and 46 lives who tried to murder her on three different occasions in her current life and
	had she not have gone through this experience she probably would be belly up or face down
	in her 21st experience of being killed by this man that we call Johnny in this life
	and Jake in the 1927 Buffalo life.
	So here's a woman who is constantly, the hell with being murdered by this guy, the victimization
	and the karmic retribution if you will of not learning the lesson of finally standing
	up to your rights and getting on with your life and removing this obsession, obsessive
	compulsive disorder as we call it and to rise above this.
	And that was really the whole point of the book.
	See, the Search for Grace book, the reason why that is very different from Past Lives, Future Lives, is because the Search for Grace not only is a documented case that's fully documented, but it also reads as a non-fiction murder mystery.
	You know, the Buffalo Police Department today considers the Grace Stowe case an unsolved murder.
	And I had a very nice conversation with a man named Sandy Constantino, who is the Tanawanda where she was actually murdered, the chief of detectives, and he, at least he was in 1992, and he said to me, he says, well, doctor, you know, we know who the murderer was.
	He's a history aficionado.
	And I said, Sandy, you know who it is?
	Go ahead, who is it?
	Knowing police mentality, since I'm a forensic consultant, I knew he would be the husband.
	And I said, well, that's very good, Jenny.
	The problem was that Chester Does had a broken leg the day of the murder, which, of course, was reported in the newspapers.
	And he said, yeah.
	And I said, plus, he also didn't drive a car.
	He was also illiterate.
	So therefore, he must have, unless he rented a cab and said, excuse me, cab driver, take me to this place where I can murder my wife and then bring me home and help me get through the door on my crutches, it wasn't the husband.
	He said, well, I guess you're right.
	So who wasn't?
	And I said, well, you can't try a man for a past life murder.
	Don't worry about the actual real murderer.
	Well, all right.
	Through your assistance, has Grace been murdered for the last time?
	Yes.
	The real ID now, this is now six years after this regression was done.
	And by the way, some interesting things have come up here.
	She, by the way, is in a very healthy relationship.
	She broke off the relationship with the man we call Johnny, or at least he was called Johnny in both the book and the movie.
	and uh... she's very very healthy she's a very young woman actually
	uh... but very very bright and uh... professionally trained woman and she's
	going on like very happy she loved the movie she loved the new book and she's
	uh... a very totally empowered person who you wouldn't even really recognize
	from her behavior now as to when i saw her six years ago
	but the interesting thing about this case though uh...
	again it reads as a non-fiction murder mystery that of course was solved
	It's also showing the principle of synchronicity, which is very well attuned throughout the entire book, which is the Jungian concept that says there are no coincidences.
	And what was what was synchronistic about this case was not only the fact that she would hook up with me, but that CBS, the network itself, was actually introduced us indirectly, including the writer of the movie, over a 10 year period of time that I wasn't aware until long after the fact.
	So it was a very, very kind of unusual circumstance that led us to all get together, where not only she was able to resolve her issues, but also this was able to be dramatized in a relatively accurate form.
	On May 17th.
	By the way, for the benefit of your listeners, if they saw the movie, the 11 o'clock news after the movie did show me on a little clip showing an actual regression in one of my other patients.
	And some of your listeners may have also seen me on the Jerry Springer Show that was aired in January where he was taken into both a past and future life.
	In his past life he shared a life where he was actually helped by his current wife's daughter.
	So there was a karmic tie with his past life experience in medieval England.
	But again, the point of all this is that this is a case where you have past, you have karmic ties, relationships.
	We know each other in past lives.
	We know the significant people in our lives.
	Victimization, which is always the issue I deal with, the idea of relationship ties, of empowerment, of overcoming issues.
	It doesn't matter what the issue is, as long as it's truly possible and the patient is motivated, anything can be accomplished.
	And by the way, another theological reference here.
	In the movie, the very end of the movie they showed the real gravestones being buried and the marker on the grave said, ye shall be born again, which was a really not quite exact quote from John chapter 3 verse 7.
	The real quote is, ye must be born again.
	And on May 15th, 1994, two days prior to the airing of the movie, Alex airs the writer and myself placed a marker on the real Grace Doe's grave, which was unmarked for 65 years, and in fact that is there now.
	The movie was also aired synchronistically and not with intent, the network didn't do it for that reason.
	It was aired exactly 67 years to the day from her death, and not only that, but it aired to the hour because she was killed, murdered, apparently according to the coroner's report, at approximately 10 p.m.
	Eastern Standard Time.
	And the movie was aired between 9 and 11 p.m.
	on May 17th of this year, so it was to the exact moment that she died.
	Okay, I'm curious.
	What has the reaction of the movie been like?
	Have you had a lot of people coming forward to you saying, oh my God, this is what I need, I need to talk to Dr. Goldberg, I need to get this or that worked out.
	What's the reaction been like?
	Well, the reaction has been unbelievably positive.
	I mean, I'm even surprised, and I've been in television for 15 years.
	When you're on the 11 o'clock news nationwide, You're going to get a variety of responses.
	My secretary has not logged in any calls of people saying, you're a jerk, I hate you, goodbye, or you're the devil, reincarnate.
	I haven't gotten those, so most of those people wouldn't call me anyway.
	But what I've gotten was a vociferous response of very, very nice people who, of course, wanted therapy and wanted experiences.
	What's very interesting about this is that This is what I want to talk about now for a few minutes.
	What I said on the news, and this is a three-minute clip that went nationwide.
	I know you saw it in Las Vegas.
	Yes.
	What happened was I discussed, if you recall the news clip, I discussed accessing the higher self, the super-conscious mind level, perceiving the soul's awareness, perceiving the past and future lives, being able to change your future by empowerment.
	and what people responded to as lovely as they were and were so appreciative, and this
	is one of the reasons why I did it, was that they said, you know doctor, I've never in
	my entire life ever watched 11 o'clock news and had somebody talk about the super conscious
	mind on the 11 o'clock news.
	And they just never got it before.
	I mean, you know, it just never came, especially from a credible source.
	And therefore that was one of the main effects people got, even those that, of course, many
	of them had their experiences and came to see me.
	I'm still getting lots of referrals from that.
	But what they said was that, we really appreciate you having the guts to say that, having that air, and being willing to take that stand, knowing that the potential response, the response is all positive.
	I mean, and I knew it would be, but the point was that I have a certain karmic purpose or sub-cycle in this life of education, And I do not believe in education by, shall we say, by eggshellness.
	I believe in education by confrontation and by do-whatever-has-to-be-done.
	And the network was kind enough to, they edited, of course, it down, but they left the soundbites in and the key points.
	So it was a very nice response and very appreciated.
	Even people who didn't come to see me just called in.
	I had calls from all over the country.
	People said, you know, I can't come to Los Angeles to see you, but you know, doctor, keep up the good work and I'm really glad to see what you did.
	That's wonderful.
	All of this begs all kinds of questions to me about the nature of time itself.
	The nature of time.
	Is there anything you can say about that?
	Sure.
	As a matter of fact, in past lives, future lives, you understand, when I was dealing with Valentine, they didn't want me to devote too much time to the technical aspects of quantum physics, because that would turn it off the public.
	Sure.
	So I had to wait until the new book.
	The Church of the Grace has three appendices in the back.
	Appendix C has the actual self-analytic exercise, but Appendix A and B We'll give the complete background of how this therapy works, what we call transpersonal psychology.
	It will also tie in the space-time continuum in quantum physics, and it will give examples, diagrams, and it's very simply written so that you don't have to be a physicist or a scientist to understand it.
	What we're saying here... Alright, hold it.
	We'll tackle this when we come back.
	We've got a bottom-of-the-hour break right now.
	Dr. Bruce Goldberg is my guest.
	His book, his latest book, The Search for Grace, was recently a CBS movie.
	I hope you had an opportunity to see it.
	We will be opening the telephone lines and taking questions for Dr. Goldberg.
	So, if you're of a mind to ask one, put your dialing finger to the telephone and get going.
	Coming up shortly.
	From the Kingdom of Nigh, we continue with your calls on Greenland with Art Bell.
	Call Art now, toll free at 1-800-618-8255.
	Call 1-800-618-8255.
	702-727-1222.
	Or the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
	727-1295.
	In the 702 area code.
	Now again, here's R. Fell.
	From the high desert, this is Dreamland.
	Good evening everybody, I am R. Fell.
	line at area code 702 727-1295 727-1295 in the 702 area code. Now again, here's Art Bell.
	From the high desert, this is Dreamland. Good evening everybody, I am Art Bell. My guest is
	Dr. Bruce Goldberg and we're going to get back to him and more about past and future lives and the
	nature of time in just a moment.
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	Alright, back now to our guest, Dr. Bruce Goldberg, and I was asking him a little bit about the nature of time.
	After all, if we come back in a succession of lives, Both in the past and then into the future, it would certainly suggest, or it seems to me as you follow this, it would begin to suggest something about the nature of time itself.
	What about it, Doctor?
	Well, what the quantum physicists state, and actually prove, both mathematically and experimentally, is that all time is simultaneous and functions in a continuum.
	So there really is no beginning and no end.
	Past, present, and future events are really occurring all at the same time.
	The analogy that I use in both Past Lives, Future Lives and The Search for Grace is a simple one of a helicopter.
	If you're listening to the radio during the early morning and you're driving on the freeway or highway where you live, and uh... you hear this uh... helicopter report about this
	about the traffic patterns if you are in this car and there's a helicopter
	directly above you by two hundred feet
	you have a cb and the helicopter has a cb so you're a karmic good buddy
	here and then there's a car five miles behind you where you just
	came from and five miles ahead of you where you're going to you can't see a
	car five miles in front or behind you on the freeway or highway
	It's too far.
	But the helicopter, because it's 200 feet above the freeway, can perceive all three cars simultaneously, which means your past, present and future.
	It can also communicate with these cars because it has a CB and all these three cars have CBs.
	And what's interesting is that when you go into an alpha level, Natural hypnosis, which is really a natural state that we
	go through, through three to four hours of our waking day,
	every time you daydream, every time you watch television, read a book,
	driving in a car, by the way, 25% of the time it's documented you're in alpha or hypnosis.
	When you go into your REM cycle, the dream levels at night, which as you'll see is when basically all the therapeutic,
	the therapy actually occurs.
	That's another three hours a night.
	So you're spending about six to seven hours a day in a 24-hour day, or 2,500 hours a year for every year of your life, going through natural hypnosis, which is why it doesn't feel particularly unusual.
	Alright, so that I may understand, then, time is just something we have to invent.
	Well, time is only a concept that, of course, it's a label, just like you label anything else.
	But what I'm saying here is that, using the concept of quantum physics and what I've just described, when you enter into a hypnotic level, you actually are doing automatically an out-of-body experience.
	You don't have to go to the corner of the room and observe and watch the silver cord.
	You actually are leaving your body every time you enter a daydream level.
	When you leave the body, you are now entering what I call the freeway of life here.
	and you are really now being the helicopter rather than the car
	and therefore you are now able to go either back or forward in time
	and since our thoughts, and this is where physics and mathematics really go together very well,
	since our thoughts go faster than the speed of light, we call that in physics a tachyon,
	going faster than the speed of light means that you're going in reverse time sequence.
	So mathematics and physics, conventional, not just quantum physics,
	but even conventional physics has proven that we can actually be a time machine and go back and
	forward in time.
	So therefore all our past and future and present and future lives are occurring right now.
	We just label it for our own convenience, but we are not really accurate.
	We are on the earth plane, but not when you leave the earth plane
	and therefore using hypnosis, which you're doing is an out of body experience,
	which means you're now leaving the earth plane, entering into either the astral plane or anywhere up to the
	solar plane and able to perceive your past, present and future.
	Alright, we've got to get to telephones here, but here's a question that came in by fax.
	I've got a lot of them.
	Please, please, please, ask your guest if God is just a mathematical equation.
	No, actually, what God is is very interesting.
	This is something that is going to both disappoint and thrill some of your listeners.
	You can pray, you can go through all kinds of mentalities and rituals all you want to.
	You will never contact God by doing that, because God has no conception to the lower five planes, or the karmic cycle.
	What God is, is not a mathematical constant.
	It's actually the energy that we have a remnant of.
	Our superconscious mind, which is a clinical term, and it's actually provable by the way,
	it's denunciable, our superconscious mind or what your listeners would know in the literature
	as the higher self, is actually a remnant of the God energy.
	The only time you're ever going to meet the God energy is when you are perfect, when you
	ascend into the higher planes and go to either whatever you believe in, whether it be the
	13th plane, the all that is, nameless plane, there's all kinds of names for it, they're
	all man-made if you will, but yet is it God?
	God is energy and energy is the basis of the universe.
	The Big Bang Theory, which I by the way buy as a concept, and feel proven otherwise, says
	that the universe began as a pencil point full of energy that exploded.
	It was energy, not matter, that proceeded.
	In fact, the basis of the universe is energy, nothing else.
	So the God energy is nothing but a perfect form of that energy, of which we have a remnant of, and therefore, yes, there is hope and salvation.
	And not only that, but I've done progressions.
	I developed the field of progression hypnotherapy in 1977, when I asked a patient to go to the origin of a problem, and she decided to go to the 23rd century, rather than back in time, as I suspected she would.
	And I've taken patients as far forward as the 36th century.
	And that is documented in past life, future life, and so yes, there is going to be quite a future for us, for human forms, and the compliance of course.
	It seems to me you'd be in a position to do a little of what would appear to be prophecy.
	I mean, can you tell us what's coming?
	Well, you see, interestingly, the answer is yes but no.
	I am not going to prophesize about anything, because what I try to demonstrate, more so in the search for grace now, rather than the path I specialize with, I didn't really have that much time to do it there, is that there are not just one future, but there are parallel universes out there.
	So, to make it simple, even though there's an infinite number of parallel dimensions, which was, by the way, demonstrated in Princeton University in 1957, by a man named Hugh Ebert III, who received his PhD in quantum mechanics, which is the actual technical name of quantum physics, I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do
	that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to
	be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that.
	I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able
	but your best frequency is number four.
	If you were then to perceive all five frequencies, which is what I do in my Los Angeles office, and by the way, your listeners can do that via tape, which I'll talk about later, then you can switch tracks and go to number four.
	So if I were to give you some scenario and say, well, you know, in 1999 this is going to happen, That will happen on a certain frequency, but not necessarily the one in which you are on.
	Now that's fascinating.
	Let me tell you why that's fascinating.
	I've had a lot of people who do prophecy, and most of them say, Doctor, this is a future.
	It does not have to be this way, or there are alternatives to it.
	And almost to the person, they always say that.
	And that kind of coincides with what you're saying about About the way it's... What they're doing is they're reading books like mine, and books by Fritz Kopper, and books by Fred Allen Wolf, and books on quantum mechanics, and what they're doing is being very educated.
	I'm glad you had that experience, because I don't.
	Most of the people that I have known and I have checked out, I feel like the reincarnation of Houdini half the time, but most of the psychics and channelers and mediums I've checked out, especially in Southern California, have, shall we say, not weathered well with the test, and they have tried to become very Well, this is the future, I see it, and that's it, and everything, and they don't really get it.
	So I'm glad to see there's another end of the spectrum.
	But yes, there is, there's always what we call a plastic future, which I described in the back of the Search for Grace, as in Appendix A.
	And what I'm saying here is that, and this is not me, but the quantum physicists saying that there are alters.
	So therefore, somebody who wants to give a prophecy, which is when you see shows like recently Encounters on Fox and the Ancient Prophets NBC, when they showed about how the world's going to end, or you're going to have major catastrophes in the next five years.
	It's absolute garbage.
	It's quoted by Cayce in the Bible and Nostradamus, and they're welcome to their opinion, and that's a parallel frequency, but it's not the one that I'm on, folks, and if you're on my frequency, You're gonna be able to live in California without swimming.
	Alright, look, we've gotta get to the telephones.
	On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
	Hi.
	Hello there.
	Boy, ring, ring, ring, and then they're not there.
	On the wild card line, I'm here with Dr. Goldberg.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Jim and Chico.
	Listen to K-Pay.
	Yes, Jim.
	Years ago, I had a encounter with a ghost.
	What are those exactly?
	Well, the ghosts, the poltergeists, are actually astral bodies.
	When you die or clinically cross into spirit, as the term that we use, you now become a less material form of a body that we call an astral body.
	So what you're getting are the different planes.
	In that astral dimension, or astral plane, there are no physical, as we know, So now what you see is a body that actually represents a space-time continuum.
	That's what people call ghosts.
	Doctor, while we're on the subject of ghosts, I've got some pictures of ghosts.
	The doggonest things I've ever seen.
	I consider them to be legitimate.
	One partially materialized and another of a group of people in period dress, taken recently,
	mostly materialized.
	They'll stand the hair on the back of your head up.
	Do you think that's possible?
	Oh yes, as a matter of fact, ghost photography was actually developed by such people as Hans Holster about 30 years ago, and I've known some people on the East Coast who do that.
	There's also something called electronic voice phenomena, where you can have a regular tape recorder, And go by a cemetery or even an older house that's been around, say, for 50, 60 years, and you can actually get voices of people that are ghosts or poltergeists that are actually living in that house.
	So, this is a phenomenon that's very well-documented, and in fact, I've seen some of the photos.
	I know, Hans, I've seen some of the photos myself, and yes, they will raise the hair in the back of your neck.
	Yes.
	And they are, what's even more significant are the apparitions that are perceived as a woman who died in Chicago, by the cemetery or by the large gate of the house and he
	appears every so often every several years. There are many stories of that, many
	well documented also that have been documented by TV cameras as well as by
	Polaroid films which you can't fudge real well if you know the UFO literature.
	That's right.
	Uh, I'm referring to Gulf Breeze and other cases.
	Uh, so therefore, these are very impressive evidence.
	What's most impressive, though... Alright, I am going to... Listen, Doctor, I'm going to get you copies of some very impressive photographs.
	Clear 35mm photographs.
	I would absolutely love to see them.
	Alright, good.
	On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
	Where are you calling from, please?
	I'm calling from Oregon.
	Oregon, yes, sir.
	Go ahead.
	Turn your radio off.
	Turn my radio off.
	Turn your radio off.
	It's off.
	Alright, go ahead, you're on the air.
	No, uh, you're gonna go ahead, sir, or should I move on to another call?
	No, I'm on.
	Alright, go!
	Um, I wanna tell you, um, I, uh, my father died, uh, soon after I had an opportunity to go to England, and my father, uh, appeared to me. I did not dare open my eyes, but he was
	there. And he said, you know, you've already been a nice guy. Just take care of your mother. And
	I was like I said, I was afraid to open my eyes, but he was there. Were you very close with
	your father? Yes, because you see, this is I tell you why I asked that because a poltergeist
	or someone who's recently crossed to spirit will usually communicate only with one member of
	the family.
	They may communicate with others, but they usually pick the person they feel closest to to relay their last messages or their advice or their presence that they are going on to a bigger place.
	And obviously he chose you rather than your mother.
	Did she have this experience?
	No, he's not there now.
	He's not there.
	But probably didn't, so he probably chose him.
	So this is very common.
	People, you know, one of the things I deal with in my Los Angeles office are bereavement
	issues.
	A lot of my patients are middle-aged people who have teenage sons or daughters who are
	either killed or murdered or died by accident or parents or loved ones, grandparents, and
	they can't get over the bereavement, which has depression and many of the characteristics.
	Not only can they do that by accessing them in their super-conscious level, but they can
	also perceive future lives with them so that they...
	So then is the plane kind of like jail where you're allowed to make one phone call?
	Well, it's not quite... You have more than one phone call, and I wouldn't like to consider it jail, which is a confinement.
	It's sort of like a place... And it's not a purgatory, either.
	I'm being a little... I know, but it's... But you're listening out there... Unfortunately, they've been brainwashed to think of it in forms of that, and that's what I'm trying to clear up.
	It's really a very open place where whatever you're dying from, if you're suffering from a disease, an illness, pain, you are totally free from it.
	It's a very ethereal, beautiful, like a library in the sky, if you will.
	But the communication, you'll find that these communications that people receive from these spirits, if you will, or poltergeists, are really quite positive and very beautiful.
	They're not like desperate.
	Sometimes there is a difficulty in a traumatic death which has to be worked out and one of the techniques which I'd like you to deal with more here is the idea of what we call a super conscious mind level where the patient is trained to access their own higher self Not only can they perceive their own past and future lives, but they can also access the part of loved ones, they can access their own guides and be instructed as to how they can help empower themselves and to go on with their life and to accomplish goals and do many other things as well as future events.
	Haven't you ever wondered, though, doctor, whether it's something we really ought to be doing, in other words, accessing this higher self?
	While we're here, is it something we're really intended to do, or are we tampering with Mother Nature?
	Well, here's the thing.
	You can't fool Mother Nature, as the old imperial commercial was.
	Basically, there's something called forbidden knowledge, which I know a lot of my colleagues don't like me to talk about, because they don't seem to have this experience, or they're afraid of it.
	But forbidden knowledge means that at a certain moment in time, if you're not supposed to know something, you don't.
	There is no way I can or the patient can by accessing their higher self receive information
	that is supervised by their own higher self which is a perfect part of them and can't
	make a mistake on the towards day.
	There is no way they will get something unless they are ready to receive it.
	Most of the time they don't get the information they want because they are not ready for it
	the other way around.
	So in other words if we can do it, it's okay.
	It's okay.
	Any information you are going to have any kind of negative entity, there is no possession
	possibility.
	The only thing you can do is benefit and grow from it and empower yourself and overcome
	the number one fear that people have which is resolved by this therapy.
	I think I've got it on the wild card line.
	You're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
	Hi.
	Good evening, Art.
	Hi.
	Hello, Dr. Goldberg.
	Hi.
	California talking.
	What part of California?
	California.
	Okay.
	California.
	I'd like to know if you could explain this experience to me I had in the early 70s.
	We were sitting on a roof watching the eclipse of the moon.
	Mm-hmm.
	I was just sort of gazing at the moon and the stars and everything.
	It was a really beautiful dark night and I could see a lot.
	And it was like all of a sudden I popped my head through almost like a rubber boot and like popped my head through a hole in space or something.
	And all of a sudden I was looking down a 45 degree angle at like shooting stars and cartwheels.
	Just all kinds of fireworks and everything.
	You know, everything just changed.
	Alright, now did you ever see the movie, uh, 2001?
	Yeah, I've seen that, but this was way before that.
	Okay, well, basically, the reason I mention it is because there was a scene at the very end which is really what you're describing.
	What you did was an out-of-body experience.
	What you did was, while you were looking at this eclipse of the moon, you actually were entering into it and were in an alpha level, a natural daydream, which you go through, as I mentioned, six to seven hours every day.
	You did something different, though.
	What you did was, and the moon is important, too, because the moon has a very strange effect upon us.
	Well, I'm a cancer also, so that might have something to do with it.
	Well, that's very good.
	That moves your planet, and that's a double influence.
	And the eclipse makes it like a quantennial influence, okay?
	You know, I've done... I've had plenty of out-of-body experiences also, but this was, I was... This was a very deep and very significant one.
	This was one where you were actually doing some plane traveling.
	You probably were in a different dimension.
	You either could have gone to the actual mental, causal, or etheric plane,
	and therefore you weren't just doing an out-of-body experience on the earth plane.
	Eyes opened up, they had a scalpel over me ready to cut open my chest and do open-open heart, you know, massage.
	What happened during that time that you were out now?
	Very much like what you speak of.
	My experience was of a feeling of a cylinder of a color of a green-blue.
	I went, I don't know, I was there in an experience of multiples of the same kind of cylinders
	with an obvious significant soul partner next to me, but not everyone had that.
	You see, now what you were doing then, let me just interrupt you, this is beautiful because
	everybody's experience is personalized to whatever you expect.
	If you expect a cylinder, you get a cylinder, but what these cylinders represent are the
	parallel frequencies of your future options, you see?
	Yeah, well that's what the time thing, see, I was aware of all things being forward and
	backwards was all the same.
	Time was time.
	Right.
	I mean, kind of like in the song Amazing Grace, when you live 10,000 years, you have as many days as when you first began.
	Right.
	That was a very overwhelming feeling.
	And Art, you know, when he was explaining to you about the helicopter and trying to give you perspective on that before and after, my perception of that, and how I've tried to explain it to people since, is if you were sitting in the middle of your bed or a vastness somewhere, And he stacked all the books that you've ever read and all the books that you will ever read around you.
	And you could experience each one of those books completely as though the day you were reading them.
	And you could appreciate them all at one time, but that whole experience was just the ability to read.
	That's a good analogy.
	It's a very good analogy.
	In fact, instead of using letters in a book, if you put that as energy itself and just absorbing the energy just like you would feel the rays of the sun, Then you really get the concept of a space-time continuum.
	Yeah, that was just my simplest way to explain it to people, because I haven't told too many people because they think I'm a little screwy.
	Well, you know, I very much appreciate your call for two reasons.
	One, it was a beautiful experience, and secondly, since you're from Missouri and you like to be shown, I appreciate your mentality behind it.
	I really appreciate it.
	Thanks, thank you very much, ma'am.
	Okay, thank you.
	Bye-bye.
	That was a good one, too.
	That was very good.
	But I have something else I'd like to bring up, too, just to show you where people are coming from, because what he's describing It's something that really is attainable.
	When I work with my patients in Los Angeles here, what I do is I give them self-hypnotic tapes so they can go into both past lives, future lives, super-conscious mind taps.
	They can go to the soul plane area to go in between the life to see how they choose their next life to access their higher self.
	These are things that are attainable by the average person even without seeing someone like myself, so this is a very natural experience.
	And, you know, it's something that they don't have to just be a specifically chosen person to do.
	Everybody can do this.
	All right.
	Why don't we go ahead and tell them, first of all, how do we get your book?
	How do we get your tapes?
	OK.
	The older book, Past Lives, Future Lives, is a Ballantyne book.
	It's available anywhere.
	And the new book, The Search for Grace, is hot off the presses, so it might not be in the stores or the malls for a few weeks yet.
	But they can always contact 1-800-KARMA-4U or 1-800-527-6248.
	And if you call my number, and that number will even be open tomorrow, I'll be happy
	to send you information about the various tapes, about the books.
	You can order the books directly from me if they're not in your bookstore, and you can get them autographed that way.
	And you can also get some more information.
	I'll be doing, on October 1st in Los Angeles, I'll be doing a workshop on taking people into future lives at the Marina Del Rey, and I'll be happy to send them specific information about that in an upcoming All right, by the way, thank you very much for the autographed book.
	I've got one here in search for Grace.
	The number is 1-800-527-6248, correct?
	Correct.
	And by the way, if you have a copy of the book in front of you, you'll notice that there's two eyes looking at this woman from the early 1900s, which is supposed to symbolize Grace.
	Those eyes are my baby blues from one of those newspaper photos.
	Those are your eyes?
	Those are my eyes, yes.
	My eyes have seen the great as they say.
	Hi there.
	I am in Phoenix.
	You betcha.
	Alright, on the toll-free line, you're on the air with Dr.
	Goldberg.
	Hi.
	Hi there.
	Where are you, sir?
	I am in Phoenix.
	Phoenix, KFYI, yes.
	You betcha. First time we talked, I had rain on the roof.
	Long time ago.
	Dr. Goldberg, did you happen to practice dentistry in the University of Southern California at any time?
	No, I practiced dentistry in Baltimore for 13 years and I moved out to Los Angeles in the early part of 1989, so I never practiced dentistry out here.
	There's a wonderful Dr. Goldberg who gave me a root canal without anesthesia and we
	are without anything.
	Well, it wasn't me nor a relative of mine, but I'll tell you one thing.
	When I did dentistry for 13 years, I would use hypnosis on the majority of my patients.
	That was one of my reputation.
	But about 25% of the people that I work with in my practice then could go through root
	canals, oral surgery, fillings, any kind of procedure and not have any form of local anesthesia
	I find that incredible.
	I've had root canals.
	I know root canals.
	I hate them all.
	Dad, you can really do that, doctor?
	Oh, sure.
	Well, I'm retired now at a very young age, but did you have a question, sir, though, about your experience?
	Well, no, I just wanted to... I was hoping it was the same Dr. Goldberg.
	We had no hypnosis either.
	But Art, and I would like you to know, as you probably know that to, along with the different time span and all the experience, to know one woman well is to know all women.
	Well, either that or perhaps the other way around.
	It's my experience that I know no woman well.
	I mean, you know them and you love them, but I'm not sure you ever really understand the feminine mystique.
	Anyway, back to the phones.
	On the first-time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Jennifer from Joshua Tree, California.
	Hi, Jennifer.
	I did miss the first part of the show, so I hope the questions I have haven't already been discussed.
	But I wanted to ask Dr. Goldberg, when you're on the actual plane, is there any danger?
	That is a good question.
	Jennifer, basically, you are When you're on the astral plane, you have what's called a silver cord, and there is no danger of you truly dying.
	People in near-death experiences, the only time they actually die is, of course, when medical reasons will expire.
	But when you're having a near-death experience naturally, without being as a result of a heart attack or something medical, you are perfectly safe.
	In fact, if you do it via tapes, like the tapes I was talking about, There's always a white light protection on those tapes to help you to, just in case, to give you additional protection, if you will, just so that the experience is as pleasant as possible.
	There's never any danger.
	If anything, the only danger in life is not going through these experiences because then you deny yourself the access of your higher self.
	So you're perfectly safe, and like I say, the out-of-body experience tape is a very complicated one in the sense that you don't just play it once and all of a sudden go to Cleveland.
	But it takes a little bit of conditioning, but it's a very beautiful experience, and it's one that, like I say, anyone can do.
	Have you had some experiences that you've had out of my experience that you can recall, Jennifer, that you're referring to?
	No, no.
	Well, actually, there was one experience, and I don't know if you would call it an astral thing, but I did have one experience where I was doing some pretty heavy thinking about nature and the Earth, and I felt You know, I had my eyes closed and I felt like I had just zoomed away from the earth and saw everything in kind of a different way.
	Well, that's what you're describing.
	What you're describing isn't.
	That's one of the characteristics of a near-death experience.
	You may not have heard the earlier caller who was watching an eclipse on a rooftop.
	Yeah, I did hear that.
	Well, he was describing a more exotic one.
	His was more visual with the lights and things like that, but basically The feeling of freedom of the physical body, a disorientation, a feeling of peace and serenity, a feeling of loving energy around you.
	This is what an out-of-body experience is characterized by.
	See, a near-death experience is only one kind of out-of-body experience.
	All right, listen, thank you very much.
	Doctor, I want to ask you, you know, I asked him at the time, did it scare you?
	And, you know, there are people who have been scared to death.
	I mean, if you've got a heart condition or something, and suddenly, like that man who called, your head pops into another dimension, it seems to me it could almost Scare you to death?
	But he doesn't.
	The proof of that is the fact that the near-death experience of people who are being resuscitated from a cardiovascular episode of myocardial infarction or others, they're the ones that come back.
	If it was so death-defying, they'd all be dead.
	That's a good point.
	On the wild-card line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
	Hi.
	Yes, uh-huh.
	Where are you calling from, ma'am?
	I'm calling from Salt Lake.
	My name's Barbara.
	Salt Lake, okay.
	Uh-huh.
	I wanted to ask the doctor an interesting question.
	Is it curling photography?
	Yeah, Kirlian photography was developed by a Russian physicist in Kirlian in the early 40s.
	They photograph the aura, right?
	Right, right.
	I was wondering if the test was ever made on a person that was dying, and if they did photograph that, if the aura faded into the body, or did it gather into a mass and rise above the body?
	Well, that's a very good question.
	The problem is that I don't know of any technology where they've had video cameras of Kirlian.
	It's always still photos.
	And I don't know of any research of that being done.
	The only thing I know that's close to that is what I mentioned earlier, the McDougall research, where they weighed the body right when it was expiring, and there was a three-quarter of an ounce difference.
	Oh, hey, but surely they've done Kirlian photography of dead bodies.
	Oh, oh, sure.
	I mean, Kirlian photography of a dead animal or plant will show nothing.
	Nothing.
	Yeah, that we know.
	I just don't know of a time-lapse situation where they've, you know, while the person or the plant are almost dying doing that.
	Alright, alright.
	Thank you very much.
	On the first time on the line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
	Hi.
	This is Robert from St.
	Louis.
	Robert from St.
	Louis.
	Okay, Robert, speak up good and loud for us.
	Alright, I had a story I wanted to know if you ever heard of anybody else who's seen something like this, but when we were growing up, this was about 15 years ago, And one of my brothers, or two of my brothers, they've seen what we thought to be a demon.
	One brother said that one night, I guess he was about 13, he woke up and he said he was standing at the foot of the bed.
	He said it was about 2.30 in the morning.
	And he said this thing was as tall as the room, probably eight and a half foot tall.
	He said it was standing probably eight feet away from him.
	He said it was so much darker than what you normally consider dark at night
	that you could see it like the light's on.
	And he said it was dark as a pitch black.
	He said it was huge, muscular.
	What did this, let's call it this spirit, do with anything?
	It didn't do anything, but he said it stood there staring at him.
	He said it had glowing black eyes, and he said that it stood there at the foot of his staring
	at him for about two hours.
	Yeah?
	And my older brother, you know, when my one brother told everybody...
	All right, we're going to have to hold it there.
	We're getting some weird kind of echo.
	Demons, uh... Well, basically, I wouldn't call that a demon.
	Obviously, I understand where you get the concept of demons, especially when you describe it with black eyes.
	However, what it looks like is one of two things.
	It could have been simply an energy manifestation of... Remember, your mind creates your reality, so you can create anything you want.
	Second, assuming this wasn't a dream or hallucination, which it doesn't seem to sound like it, The other thing it could be is it could be one of their own guys.
	Could be trying to communicate with them.
	You notice there was nothing threatening or physically negative done by this entity.
	Right.
	It was just there staring at them.
	Do people perceive, I guess, as a result of their environmental conditioning, they might perceive it to be a demon, or an angel, or any number of things?
	Right.
	I mean, see, to me, I don't even, like, for example, the concept of angels is another one I have a problem with, in the sense that I'm not saying there aren't spirit entities that are what you would call angels, but I wouldn't call them angels.
	I would call them Masters or guides or a representation of your own super-conscious.
	I've never myself had a patient describe a winged entity with a chubby little cheek, you know, floating around.
	But they do describe entities that are of energy form, that are actual bodies or things that are even beyond that.
	And so therefore, again, we can call them angels, just like we can call past, present, and future isolated
	and think that's a reality.
	But, you know, it's just a matter of, there's a lot of things out in the universe, energy-wise, that we don't label and aren't trained with in our normal educational aspect, that, you know, we can also call different things.
	All right.
	A lot of calls, little time.
	Toll-free line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	This is Benita Plymail from Albuquerque.
	Albuquerque.
	All right.
	Welcome to the program.
	Thank you.
	Um, when you, when you were listening to Linda at the beginning of the program?
	Yes, uh-huh.
	And she was telling about the witnesses?
	Yes, uh-huh.
	On my radio, I couldn't hear you at all.
	It was just beeping.
	And so we didn't get any of that, uh... Well, I'm sorry to hear it.
	I don't know what to tell you about that.
	We'll repeat some portion.
	Alright, thank you.
	Alright, thank you.
	Uh, too bad she missed that.
	First time caller... No, I was going to ask if she was missing any cattle, you know.
	First time caller on the line.
	You're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	My name is Ron from Murray Island, KVI country.
	I'd like to tell Dr. Goldberg an experience I had in 1976.
	I was in Bisbee, Arizona and this was late at night around 11 o'clock and I was on my way home.
	I was living in a teepee up in the Zacatecas Canyon.
	I looked up at the sky and noticed this, it was a half moon and there was a massive cloud blowing from the west towards the east but it wouldn't pass the moon and I thought that was quite unusual so I kept staring at it figuring something else was going to happen and sure enough one Cloud Man burst across the moon leaving these Gossamer
	trails behind and then two more followed that and I looked back into the cloud mass and there was
	cookie cutter shaped in the cloud mass and these three running Cloud Men which I call
	them just went across the moon and over to the east and I was wondering if that had any
	special significance.
	Well you know what you're describing here sounds like more like an energy mist of experience
	in other words an energy form that was taking form and when you say it didn't pass over
	the moon that's kind of interesting because that's the way the energy would be in the
	It would be something you could see through, whereas a cloud would actually block out the moon.
	All right.
	We'll have to hold it there.
	Thank you very much, caller.
	Doctor, hold on.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	We are ruled by the clock.
	We will break here and be back with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
	He's my guest.
	His latest book, The Search for Grace, was a CBS movie.
	Hope you caught it.
	If not, maybe in repeats.
	You're listening to the CBC Radio Network.
	Huh.
	This is a pre-recorded, previously broadcast program.
	Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nine toll free at 1-800-618-TALK.
	First time callers, 702-727-1222.
	702-727-1222.
	Or use the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
	This is Coast to Coast AM on the CBC Radio Network.
	a T-A-L-K. First time callers, 702-727-1222. 702-727-1222.
	Or use the wildcard line at 702-727-1295. This is Coast to Coast AM on the CBC Radio
	Network.
	From an area just adjacent to Area 51, the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM on
	This is Dreamland.
	I'm Art Bell.
	And in a moment, I've got a fax here for Dr. Goldberg that I find fascinating, and I bet he will too.
	And we'll get back to him in just a moment.
	Do you have hard water?
	And now, the fax that I wanted to read to Dr. Goldberg.
	Although I have been a meditator for over 30 years, I still have not been able to figure out this recurring enigma.
	Perhaps you can shed some light on it for me.
	Before I go to sleep, my body stays on the bed and I go through my third eye and start shooting out into space where I'm traveling through millions of stars.
	I come to a clearing where it is light, where there is some sort of huge, crystalline-appearing structure.
	I go inside the structure and there are many of what I'll call high beings in there.
	It's like a meeting of some kind.
	I am then outside the structure, don't remember what went on inside, although I know I've been inside.
	Then I return to my body and bed.
	Any ideas about this?
	Is my higher mind protecting me from something?
	And if it is, why would I go in the first place?
	From Diane in the San Diego area.
	Doc Oldberg, what about that?
	Well, Diane in the San Diego area, listen on Kogo, you have just described my entire practice and life's work.
	What you've done is the third eye area is actually an energy chakra.
	And what you've done is gone through that into an out of body experience.
	Alright?
	What you're doing is traveling what used to be called astral projection or remote viewing now.
	And then you've done a super conscious mind tap where you're accessing your own higher self.
	Then she's gone to the soul plane where you choose in between lives.
	These higher beings she's referring to are actually her masters and guides.
	What she's getting is forbidden knowledge which is why she can't remember it now.
	And when she comes back into the body, she's perfectly safe of course, but doesn't remember what she's not supposed to remember, but eventually she will get that data when she is ready for it.
	I mean, this is beautiful.
	I hope that you're listening to this and I hope you give me a call sometime because I'd love to speak to you in person.
	This is a fantastic experience.
	And by the way, you can actually get this experience a lot easier and you can actually get to the level where you can raise your energy so that you can recall this knowledge and information.
	By using techniques like the out-of-body experience and soul plane ascension.
	So using the tapes would also help you to facilitate that.
	But that is absolutely beautiful and a complete summary and synopsis of everything I represent.
	All right.
	Excellent.
	I thought that might fit in.
	From Joel on the low desert at KNews, he would like to know, among other things, do animals have souls?
	Actually, Animal Psy, as we call it, is in the research.
	It goes back to Duke University for about 50 years or so.
	Animals have souls.
	The problem with that concept, or the difficulty with that old Eastern concept, is that animals do not, I repeat, do not reincarnate as humans.
	I have never, in 30,000 past life regressions, ever regressed a gopher or anybody to a head of lettuce.
	So everybody, when you're human, you stay human.
	But animals do have their own souls.
	In fact, I request people who have been or seen or contacted their departed animal, cat or dog or others, That have been, in fact, in the process of reincarnating and can perceive some of their past lives.
	I'll be darned.
	All right, one more quick one, then back to the telephones.
	Are all souls the same, or are there alien souls, in other words, non-human being entities that are encountered?
	Well, technically, if you read Past Lives, Future Lives, you'll see that all the... when I request people to the original, the first life on the Earth plane, Uh, they usually describe themselves as what we call light people, which are extraterrestrial in origin.
	Therefore, technically, all of our souls and all of our basic makeup really has an extraterrestrial base to it.
	Wow.
	Alright, on the, uh, wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
	Hi.
	Hello, this is Fritz calling.
	Yes, Fritz, from, uh, Phoenix, I believe.
	That's right.
	Last Friday night, a young man was killed by lightning here in Phoenix.
	We had a very heavy thunderstorm.
	Now, he was walking to his car.
	the lightning hit him. He had a tremendous fear of lightning. When a storm was announced,
	Yes.
	he would park his car very close to the exit door to minimize the distance. This man had
	a premonition that something was happening, that lightning would happen somewhere in his
	life. Explain this comic incident.
	Well, basically, if he had the premonition of it, I mean, that's a progression.
	That's what, you know, people do with, they can be trained to do.
	In my office, when I work with my patients, when they perceive their future, they can perceive actual, the choices and select it.
	If he perceived that and he decided that that was his fate, remember, you choose your death, he could have also perceived himself to be on a different parallel frequency where he has not died.
	Just because he got hit by lightning and died in this life, and I'm not trying to negate that or to dilute that, It's a serious event, but comically it isn't, because he's living now on other parallel frequencies where maybe he is manifesting his true karmic purpose.
	So in other words, karmically, you could be struck by lightning many times.
	Right.
	Karmically, it's your time to go.
	It's your time to go.
	But remember, you only die on one or more parallel universes.
	There are others right now where he is still alive, in his current life.
	It's a different dimension.
	If you're listening to the radio, and of course you don't do this when you're listening to art, but if you were to change the dial, you'd get a different channel coming in without moving the box, just by changing the dial.
	It's a different frequency.
	And so it is with the soul and life.
	Alright, on the toll-free line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	This is that liberal in Memphis whose liberal ideas are as far up in space as this guy's.
	Alright, when people say that to you, You're spaced out, it's ridiculous, how do you respond?
	I mean, after listening to all of this, if he is not convinced, or at least curious, and still regards it as spaced out comic book stuff, what do you say to somebody?
	What I say is basically, I call what I do, this is my demographic technique.
	When the student is ready, the teacher will be there.
	If this gentleman wants to think of this as being hogwash, whatever he wants to, he's not ready for it, and he's entitled to his opinion.
	I'm a First Amendment activist.
	However, eventually he will die in this life.
	He will reincarnate.
	And while he's in the Soul Plane, he will then, unfortunately, a little bit late for this life, realize the error of his ways.
	So maybe, maybe, if he's lucky in the next life, his call will be friendlier.
	Or even more, even better, maybe if he sees the light, he'll be a little bit more, shall we say, attuned in this life, and maybe kind of like open up a little bit more.
	Alright, on the toll-free line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Joyce in Irvine, California.
	Irvine, yes, Joyce.
	I'm having a good time listening to the show tonight.
	I had attended one of Dr. Goldberg's seminars at the Whole Life Expo in Los Angeles a couple of years ago, and he took the group through a past life as well as a future life progression.
	I didn't remember too much about the past life, but the future life progression had a profound effect on me.
	Just the information coming through was very clear, dates, and he asked us to get the date and to get our names and the situation that was occurring.
	And the emotional impact, what it brought up applied to the situation that I was in in my present lifetime.
	Did you also see the parallel frequencies or the other options?
	Well you had us go through the five different frequencies and I did do that and I picked the one that was the highest, that I saw as the highest and I can't say that I've really seen a big I don't know.
	or mental change in this lifetime, just more of a spiritual shift in attitude.
	That's the point.
	You say future lives, you're really referring to age progression in this life I assume.
	No, you had us go into like a future lifetime.
	No, I did, but what you're referring to right now, in order to see a change in this life,
	In this lifetime, right.
	if you're perceiving a future life, then what you're focusing in on is really that future
	life and yes, you can raise your, what you will manifest in this life will be a spiritual
	uplifting, but you won't necessarily know where you are because you're now focusing
	in on the future life, not the future of this life, you see.
	Right, right.
	But basically the techniques that you learned there can be applied also if you want to specify
	to the current life.
	I don't know if you've got one of the age progression tapes or the future life progression tapes.
	No, I just attended that one seminar.
	Okay, because the progression tape will actually guide you into the future of this life or, it's your choice, the future life and you can then actually lay out the future of this life, not just having to be patient and wait for 100 or 200 years from now to pursue the future life.
	Actually, it was about 1200 years in the future.
	Really?
	Well, you're getting close to a sequester, if you know what I mean, you know, the woman who was in 36th Century.
	Well, I really very much appreciate your call there and for your friends and any of your people you know there, I'll be doing the whole Life Expo in November.
	I wanted to ask you, do you do like small group lectures or seminars?
	Well, basically I do the learning annex class and I do occasionally, I do those, but most of the time I don't because most of my time is spent with my full-time practice here in Los Angeles.
	Uh, public speaking is, I mean, I'm asked to do a lot, but I usually don't do that much, but, uh, occasionally I will, if, uh, if the spirit moves me, and with people like you, and your attitude, that usually gets me to be moved a lot more than others, than most.
	Okay.
	Alright, thank you.
	Uh, there's a big temptation for you.
	Um, on the wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
	Hi.
	This is Jody K. Latrino.
	Hi, Jody.
	Hi, uh, Dr. Goldberg.
	Yes, Jody.
	Could memories of a past life be just memories of a It's a very good question and I hear it a lot.
	We call that the genetic lineage theory, but let me tell you the problem here.
	The problem with the genetic lineage theory is that, number one, Ivy, who has graced those in a past life, and this was documented by CBS, ...was not in any way related genetically to Grey's Toes.
	In fact, about less than one-half of one percent of any of the regressions I've ever done has anybody ever stayed in the same family.
	But more importantly, from my undergraduate background in biochemistry, the chromosome, or DNA, dies, or becomes dust when the physical body... There's no way the DNA can reincarnate, because it actually... And it's like having a cell die.
	This is actually deoxyribonucleic acid, but It's impossible for the chromosomes to survive death.
	In a way it does, though.
	The DNA is the messenger, but the message survives.
	What's surviving, though, is the energy.
	That's where the soul comes in.
	The soul is like the DNA, only the soul isn't DNA.
	The soul is electromagnetic radiation.
	Again, unless you're hung up on the term DNA, It's not DNA, it's the soul energy that survives, that carries the messages, as does the DNA in the physical body when you go through fertilization and recreation of a species.
	But understand, almost all of the regressions that I've ever done, I mean 99.5%, have been of people of different family lines, which would destroy completely the concept of any genetics.
	I see.
	Okay, thank you.
	Thank you.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
	Hi.
	Yes.
	Dr. Goldberg?
	Yes.
	If you are to be reincarnated, how come abortion is considered such a big issue in this country, if you're just going to simply going to be reborn somewhere else?
	Abortion is considered a big issue.
	It has nothing to do with, really, a reincarnation.
	It's a big issue because it's an issue, as is gun control, as is everything else in the world I can think of.
	It's simply an issue that has been based upon society's mentality.
	Religion has a lot to do with it.
	You know, there is a correlation between Uh, this country's belief, which is only 40% reincarnation, and the theological systems, which do not like to believe in reincarnation, even though it's a part of all religions, because it conflicts with the self-interest of, if you believe in reincarnation, what do you need the church for?
	You see?
	So it's simply a political issue, or it has nothing to do with the reality of the universe's function.
	It might be interesting, though, to ask, is abortion then, Doctor, just sort of another karmic trail, I guess?
	It's a good question.
	It's actually a karmic choice.
	Let's say that you're about to reincarnate.
	You've already chosen a body.
	But now, of course, you would know this from the higher planes, which is why it's a little bit of a moot argument, but let's say that, for example, that you chose a body and your mother decides to have an abortion three or four months in the term.
	It's kind of a karmic crap-out, really.
	Yeah, it's sort of like, you know, you just go like, aced out here, okay?
	So what happens?
	Well, the soulless energy will just simply say, okay, I can't be with that family now, you could always reincarnate the next time she has, A fetus that maybe isn't aborted, or you could just choose a different family and just maybe wait a few years or a few decades.
	The soul cannot be destroyed.
	Once you create energy, you can't either lower it nor can you destroy it.
	It's there for eternity.
	So then, in a lot of ways, if you're trying to give an explanation from your point of view with regard to the legal dilemma on abortion, abortion wouldn't karmically It's not a crime at all from a karmic perspective.
	What's a crime is when people limit themselves and don't empower themselves or become codependent or become nothing but a follower rather than a leader.
	That is the karmic crime because the purpose of being on the earth plane is to raise the energy of the soul to perfection.
	Period.
	Spiritual growth is it.
	It's not accumulating fortunes.
	It's not accumulating stocks and bonds or becoming president of a corporation.
	It's to grow spiritually.
	The only way I know to grow spiritually is to associate with a higher energy, which is
	your super-conscious, and to be able to be empowered in all aspects of your life.
	That is everything we've described when it comes to labels or philosophies or debates
	or controversial issues.
	Those are not empowerment issues.
	Those are issues of societal mentalities of trying to be controlled or to control others.
	The purpose of spiritual growth is simply to be empowered.
	Hi, I have a question for you.
	Salt Lake.
	I've had spirits in my house.
	I have a question for you.
	Alright, where are you calling from?
	Salt Lake.
	Salt Lake, alright.
	Yes.
	Okay, I'm here.
	Turn your radio off, ma'am.
	It is.
	Okay, thank you.
	I have to get to it first.
	What's your question, ma'am?
	I've had spirits in my house.
	I've had them for 23 years, and now they're gone.
	Mm-hmm.
	They're just gone.
	Where'd they go?
	Are you going through bereavement now?
	Oh, no!
	Okay.
	Well, basically, they've gone because they've either solved or they've accomplished their mission, okay?
	And they've either gone to, they've ascended, perhaps, or they simply just decided they no longer need to be around that place.
	It maybe had nothing to do with you.
	Well, someone from the church was here, high up in the church, and he was talking to me.
	He didn't know about this.
	Out of nowhere, he said, you have spirits in your house.
	And he said that I'm a bridge for them.
	Well, maybe you just did your job, ma'am, and they're gone.
	Yeah, so celebrate it.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	The Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Jim in St.
	Louis.
	Hi, Jim.
	Dr. Goldberg, thanks for coming on the show.
	First of all, Art, I'd like to, if I may, make one comment, and then I have a couple of questions for your guests.
	Sure, go ahead.
	The comment I'd like to make is, again, thanks for the show Friday night with John Lear.
	That was the most intense show you've ever done, and it seems to fall in line with a lot of what Dr. Goldberg is talking about, the soul being a universal thing that's just carried simply by a house By people, whatever, extraterrestrials.
	He touched on that a little bit.
	That was most interesting.
	Okay, the main questions I have for Dr. Goldberg.
	Dr. Goldberg, hey, how's it going?
	It's going fine, by the way.
	John Lear is also an engineer, so it's nice to have scientists comment on this rather than some of the people that tend to comment on this.
	Right, I totally respect John Lear, and hearing him talk, I think, I believe, I may be one of the minority, but I believe totally that he He knows something that the rest of us don't know, but although I know that a lot of people think he's a total quack.
	Do you have a question for me, Dad?
	Yeah, do you have a question?
	Yes, sir, I do.
	Go ahead.
	My questions are, you've been talking a little bit about astral projections.
	How can I, with my girlfriend, sit down and for us to both go through this and to experiment?
	The very simple thing you should do is call 1-800-527-6248.
	And let me, my office will be open tomorrow.
	You can give me your full name and address and I'll be happy to send you a list of the tapes.
	The one that you're looking for is the Out of Body Experience Tape.
	This is a self-hypnotic tape that you and your girlfriend can use together or separately and it will train you and give you all the techniques to lift out, have a very safe trip and come back to the body perfectly at ease with memories of what you've experienced and what we call now, we call this actually remote viewing.
	But it's a very simple technique.
	I mean, it takes a little conditioning, but it's something that is perfectly safe, and you can do it by tape very simply.
	And also, the cost of travel is very reasonable.
	Sure.
	There's really an air war going on right now with the out-of-body levels.
	It's very cheap.
	On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I'm calling from Gilroy, California.
	Yes, sir.
	I've done some research on the theory about the Druids and the Kundalini.
	Which is a Druid belief of anti-man or body that... The Kundalini is an Eastern approach.
	It's not a Druid approach.
	It goes back to the ancient Indians.
	I mean, we're talking like India-Indians, many, many, many, like you know about... Yeah, it was brought by the Aryans.
	Anyway, what I was calling about is that they built... as they conquered the Chonkas, built up a solar body that was sort of depicted in the
	second volume of Martian Chronicles.
	Well, the Martian Chronicles is a fiction thing, but by Ray Bradbury. Do you have a
	question that's based on non-fiction?
	Yeah, we're very short on time.
	Okay, the Kandalini, you conquered the chakras.
	You don't conquer the chakras or any of the vortexes.
	You don't conquer them.
	You simply have them.
	All right, all right.
	Well, we're going to have to hold it there.
	He's going on and on.
	Dr. Goldberg, we're out of time.
	It really has been a pleasure.
	Go ahead and give out one more time the number.
	Okay, the number is 1-800-527-6248.
	The books are Past Lives, Future Lives, which is a Ballantyne book and is readily available and has been for six years.
	The new book, The Search for Grace, is published by InPrint Publishing.
	If you can't get it yet at your local bookstores or malls, you can get it through my office.
	You can get autographed copies as well as a listing of the various tapes that are involved.
	And Marina Del Rey on Saturday, October 1st, and I'll be in November 13th at the Hope Expo at the L.A.
	Hilton.
	All right, it is.
	Dr. Goldberg, what a pleasure.
	We will, of course, do it again.
	Thanks a million.
	Take care.
	Dr. Bruce Goldberg, and I'm sorry, as you know, we are very much ruled by the clock, and I've got to go.
	I've got to go.
	That's all the time there is.
	I'll just remind you, if you would like a copy of this program, I can imagine you would want to archive this.
	The number that you can dial right now is area code 503-664-7966.
	For the staff and management of the network, I'm Art Bell.
	Good night.
	This has been Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience
	not easily nor neatly put in a box.
	Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not that.
	Yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
	Please join us again next week, at this time, for Dreamland.

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