Art Bell

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Sept. 4, 1994 - Art Bell

02:06:00

Dreamland with Art Bell - Past Lives and Future Lives - Dr. Bruce Goldberg

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33:13

bruce goldberg

01:03:28

linda moulton howe

10:10

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		This is a pre-recorded reading for a broadcast group.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
		This is Dreamland from the high desert.
		It's Sunday evening and it's another dreamland.
		Good evening, everybody.
		I'm RBL.
		We are going to go exploring about the possibility of a life after this life and after the next life and before this life and before that light.
		Dr. Bruce Goldberg is going to be our guest this morning on Dreamland.
		This morning, this evening.
		This evening.
		I guess in some areas I'll be right.
		This will be replayed and it'll be morning.
		At any rate, it's awfully good to be here.
		Going back east now, as we always do, our weekly reporter, the much-renowned Linda Howell.
		And so back now to Philadelphia and Linda Howell.
		Linda, good evening.
		He says, hi, Linda.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Can you hear me all right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you just fine.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I thought that I would start tonight updating that extraordinary story of the 1,700 missing cattle from Laurica, Oklahoma.
		Friday I talked with both the sheriff and with the president of First Farmer National Bank there.
		The first hard piece of data is that Mr. Richardson's cattle have four distinct brands, and so far as of Friday, none of those brands have shown up in any sale barns, which was one of the investigations by the Texas and Southwestern Cattle Raisers Association in Fort Worth.
		They sent investigators between Texas, Oklahoma, and other states looking for these brands in the event that they had been stolen for resale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's kind of the equivalent of the police going to pawn shops after a big burglary.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Now, the president of the bank said, told me that he knows in his bank that he holds many invoices of cattle purchases by the rancher, Mr. Richardson, that would be equivalent to this number of animals.
		And he said that Mr. Richardson has been a rancher for 30 years and has developed a style of matching cows with their newborns as pairs and then selling the cow and that calf.
		And that is his business.
		And that of the 1700, they were divided evenly between cows and their calves.
		The sheriff did confirm it would have taken at least 25 double trailer trucks to have moved that many animals.
		And his problem is that they have not been able to come up with any evidence whatsoever that any kind of truck activity occurred in Guadarika.
		And the sheriff is doubly puzzled because they have not been able to find evidence that there were that many cattle in this particular pasture.
		But there are mixed data on that.
		The banker says that he has seen the number of cattle that the rancher had reported or some form thereof.
		And as of Friday, this remains a mystery, and I learned two other details.
		Two other ranchers in Wawika, Oklahoma since the spring have respectively lost approximately 25 head of their animals, and they were reported to the bank, but they did not go into this kind of headline news.
		The assumption was that maybe they were russelled, but as of Friday, those cases had never been solved either, and those brands had never showed up in any of the sale barns.
		So as of this Labor Day weekend, the 1,700 animals are still a mystery at the sheriff's office and at the bank and Mr. Richardson's residence in Waurika, Oklahoma.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How could possibly that number of cattle just extraordinary, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And I kept thinking as I was talking with these people, and we were sticking just with the facts, but I could not help thinking about that interview that I did with one of our Dreamland listeners who wrote me this summer about finding the mutilated animal out in Sand Springs,
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Oregon, in a kind of depression in the ground with ear missing, eye missing, tongue, genitals, and rectum cord out, and having that cowhand say to him, well, I've seen these big white lights come at night and send down beams of light over these cattle, and I've watched these cattle rise in these beams of light, and then I've heard the cattle be dropped down to the ground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Linda, I know that I got a newspaper article from New Mexico, which talks about the incredible number of cattle mutilations there.
		In fact, the newspaper locally is calling for an investigation.
		And I know you've been reporting a lot of what's going on down there.
		You are going out there, aren't you?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and next Sunday I'll be reporting from New Mexico, and I will be talking with several of the veterinarians and the ranchers and others that have been working with us on these cases that I have been giving updates on now since May 14th when we had two steers found at either end of a lake about two miles apart.
		And Dr. John Alchiller in Denver flew down to meet a veterinarian, Tim Johnson, from Taos, and they did tissue excisions and necropsies of those animals right in the field.
		I have videotape of it.
		And in both of those steers, under the microscope, the tissue had been cut with something hot enough to cook the hemoglobin.
		So it is continuing to be an intense flurry of mutilations in northern New Mexico, and there's been a host of moving light, unidentified light sightings in southern Colorado.
		So who knows what I'm going to run into.
		But on this Labor Day weekend, as we are headed into the last quarter of 1994, I thought it would be valuable to go back to one of the most credible, multiple eyewitness reports of unidentified aerial objects this entire year to date.
		It was March 8th, around 9.30 p.m. in Michigan.
		Dozens of 911 calls were being made to the police department in Holland City, Michigan.
		The police dispatcher recorded the calls and then phoned a National Weather Service radar operator to see if he could confirm the presence of anything in the sky.
		I have an audio tape job from the unaltered master tape at the police department in Holland City, Michigan.
		First, I would like you to hear one of the very first callers who describes a circle of lights.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Direct from the PD up there, I guess.
unidentified		Have you heard anything about these lights that are flickering up here in the, what is it, the east, east, southeast area?
		The stream of Christmas lights is way up in the sky.
		And we wondered if you had heard anything about it.
		And I was like, wow, you might not have somebody take a look.
		It's different.
		I've never seen anything like it.
		I don't know.
		It's strange.
		But it's right out east-southeast and way up.
		And it's just a circle of a lot of different lights flickering.
		And it's different than any airplane.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Now, I'm going to play for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was obviously, Linda, as the sighting was going on, that was pretty exciting.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, and it goes on.
		This tape has many of the eyewitnesses.
		And now I'm going to play an excerpt from the conversation between the Harland City, Michigan police dispatcher and the radar operator who is seeing three and four objects on his radar screen between 6,000 and 12,000 feet elevation moving in a triangular formation estimated to be 25 miles from end to end and moving at enormous speed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		All right.
		Go ahead.
		Once again with our new audio system.
		I think it's coming up.
		Coming up anyway.
unidentified		Yeah, I've never seen, now I'm getting multiple attributes.
		One of the people that called it, I hit happened to talk to said it looks like a bunch of cylindrical objects.
		Well, oh my god, what is that?
		They were going together and coming apart.
		Yeah, well, there's three, and they're lengthwise.
		Now I'm getting three of them.
		And you're getting a third one now.
		And they're about separated by about 5,000 feet in height.
		And about maybe the message is about 50 kilometers.
		They're very...
		They're very strong returns.
		I'm getting a real spike that's perfectly solid.
		Let's look at the bathe.
		Yeah, I'm not sure in the House three to send me a message to help you identify these curves because it looks like three to four of them.
		I'm seeing three.
		I'm seeing three, and it's separated by, it looks like a triangle on my scope.
		I'm looking one around down by South Haven.
		I'm seeing another one over Lake Michigan about northwest of Benton Harbor.
		And another one over, well, west of, or east of Benton Harbor, which would be near Decatur.
		I'm seeing three of those.
		Very strong.
		I'm getting another one down in Berrien County.
		These are huge returns.
		I've never seen anything like this.
		Not even when I'm doing storms.
		These aren't storms.
		They're like popping up all over the place.
		This is strange.
		Actually, the officer says it's green and red lights and does not look like an airplane.
		But they come together and then they separate and they just keep doing this all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, if that doesn't raise the hair on the back of your neck, nothing will.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And after those March 8, 1994 reports by dozens of Michigan residents, a policy of no comment ensued at the National Weather Service Office, which is a federally funded agency under the Department of Commerce.
		As always, Art, the question is raised, what does someone in the United States government know about this phenomenon that it does not want to share with us, the public?
		That question has been important since the 1940s and now 50 years later is still unanswered.
		And I guess that's at the heart of why we do Dreamland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess it is, Linda.
		That's one of the best prepared presentations of a sighting I've ever heard.
		I mean, you've got the actual eyewitness screaming it to the police.
		Then you've got the radar operators confirming it.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And you remember him saying that he had never seen anything like this before during his weather radar experience and that these were solid spikes.
		This was not something that he was confusing at all with weather.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And his line, they're beginning to spike.
		This is not weather.
		These are solid objects.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And think about staying in the other parts of the tape, which we don't have time to go into, as these are moving across the scope.
		You know how the scope, the hand, sweeps around.
		They were moving at such a rapid rate, and yet they were going in and out, in and out of this maintained triangular formation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are the odds of getting a copy of some of that, Linda?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		In terms of, you mean more of it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, an audio copy of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any chance you might get me an audio copy of what you've got?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would really appreciate that.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And then you might be able to use it further?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can depend on that.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I would very much appreciate a copy of that.
		And, Linda, one more item.
		Gee, that was exciting.
		The other item is that tape which I had sent to you.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Linda, I've obtained 35-millimeter photographs of this creature from Puerto Rico.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm going to have them scanned and put up on Internet so everybody can get hold of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know that you have now seen the videotape, and I talked with you a little while ago.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that anything you recognize?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		No.
		And as I explained to you, I am going to show this videotape and the photos that I have to a zoologist at the university, one of the big universities here.
		I will see what scientific comment there is and hopefully do it as an audio cassette interview and if there is any story here I'll report it on an upcoming dreamland in the next few weeks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I will look forward to it.
		Sounds like your plate is full and you're off to New Mexico.
		When do you actually leave, Linda?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I will leave Wednesday.
		And by next Sunday, hopefully I will have some, I think, some very interesting eyewitness reports as well as, we hope, some more information back from the veterinarian pathologists who have been studying the most recent animals.
		And for those listeners who are not up to date, Eli Wanich, who I have interviewed and have done updates on the continuing loss of his animals to the strange phenomenon, had up to his 15th mutilation this past week.
		And another rancher not far from his ranch has had two and a mysterious death of a third animal, bringing the total of rancher, the mutilations in that Angel Fire Estanola area of New Mexico up around Paus since May 14th to at least seven cases that we've worked on and we've heard that half a dozen other ranchers have had mutilations which they have not reported.
		So this is equivalent to the phenomenon last year in Alabama that my new documentary, Strange Harvest 1993, is about, when they had over 30 reports of animal mutilations in northeastern Alabama in a short period of time also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I know you're very busy, Linda, but if you could possibly get that tape off to me before you take off for New Mexico, I sure would appreciate it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and the other thing is, Linda, a lot of people here listening to this program would like to write to you, so take a deep breath and give us your address slowly.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		It is Linda Howell, H-O-W-E at Post Office Box 538 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
		English spelling H-U-N-T-I-N-G-D is in dog O-N, Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
		And the zip code is 19006.
		And for those of you who have faxes, I'm happy to also get faxes at area code 215-491-9842.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wonderful.
		Linda, thank you.
		Good luck in New Mexico.
		Take care.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bye-bye.
		That's Linda Howell, and she will be coming to us from New Mexico next week, next Sunday on the program.
		So you're not going to want to miss that.
		Boy, there's a lot going on.
		I've never heard audio tapes.
		I've never heard audio tapes with that much solid witness evidence on them.
		That was good.
		Very good.
		All right.
		I want you to listen to me for a moment.
		If you have any savings, if you have investments, if you have money, you've got to hear this.
		Listen to me very carefully.
		Our money, the U.S. dollar, is in some trouble.
		It has been going down and down compared to the yen.
		The bond market has been in a devastating downward slide.
		There are problems on the horizon.
		Our government has said they will issue a new money.
		They announced that now two months ago.
		One for use inside the U.S., one for use outside the United States.
		So if you have some extra money, we are suggesting that you convert some of it to gold.
		It just makes sense.
		Gold always delivers.
		It's always there.
		It retains its value.
		Way back in the 30s, had you an ounce of gold in the form of a gold coin, and you held that money until now, then and now, you would be able to buy a fine wool suit with that gold.
		It's the best way I can think of to explain it.
		And of course, $20 now wouldn't begin to buy you a fine suit.
		If you had a $20 bill, it would buy you today what you can get today for $20.
		But the gold would still get you the fine wool suit.
		That's the best way to explain how gold holds its value.
		So, call North American Trading and let them tell you all about gold.
		And they will.
		They've got a free newsletter.
		All you've got to do is call them in the morning.
		Make that Tuesday morning, I guess, at 1-800-877-9799.
		That number again, 1-800-877-9799.
		in just a moment, Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		It's not that often that I get a chance to tell you all about a product that has affected my life like the Alpine Air Purification System.
		And not just my life, but my wife's as well.
		My wife suffers with asthma and believe me, our home is a very different place since we turned on the Alpine system.
		In my case, I blow it directly into the intake of my central air conditioning, and the entire house smells mountain fresh.
		The unit is totally portable.
		It requires no installation.
		Just plug it in, turn it on, and your air will become clean and energized just the way nature does it.
		You ever see a thunderstorm with all the lightning coming down, smell the ozone and the ions?
		Well, you've really got to experience this one to believe it.
		I'm a smoker, and it's amazing how it also gets rid of odors.
		On top of that, there's no real risk involved.
		No risk?
		You get a 30-day money-back guarantee.
		That's right, try it and see for yourself how it works.
		So if you've got allergies, asthma, or if you just care about the air you breathe, and that's the best reason, call 1-800-717-HOPE.
		Order your Alpine Air Purification System.
		I tell you, your home or office will start smelling like mountain air.
		The Alpine system is rock solid.
		It's built to run 24 hours a day and last 15 years.
		So call them at 1-800-717-HOPE.
		That's 1-800-717-HOPE.
		It's your air and it's your health.
		Dr. Goldberg, right after the break at the bottom of the arrow, let me tell you a little bit about Dr. Goldberg.
		He graduated from Southern Connecticut State College in June of 1970, earned a BA degree in biology and chemistry, attended the University of Maryland School of Dentistry, receiving his Doctor of Dental Surgery degree May of 1974.
		Upon completion of a general practice residency program in dentistry, he set up both a general dental and hypnosis practice in Baltimore, where he practiced until 1989.
		Dr. Goldberg moved his hypnotherapy practice to Los Angeles in 1989 and then retired from dentistry at that point.
		In 1984, Dr. Goldberg received an M.S. degree in counseling psychology from Loyola College.
	The American Society of Clinical Hypnosis trained Dr. Goldberg in the techniques and clinical applications of hypnosis in January of 1975.
	This organization trains only licensed dentists, physicians, and psychologists in the use of hypnosis.
	Dr. Goldberg has appeared on a lot of television and radio shows throughout the country.
	He's conducted live past-life regressions on Donahue, Oprah, Joan Rivers, Regis, Cathay Lee, and other CNN stations.
	Through lectures, television, and radio appearances, and newspaper articles, including interviews in Time and The Washington Post, he's been able to educate many people as to the benefits of hypnosis.
	He's conducted more than 30,000 past life regressions and future life progressions since 1975, and none of his patients have ever been harmed through the use of these techniques.
	In addition, Dr. Goldberg distributes cassettes to teach people self-hypnosis and guide them into past and future lives.
	Dr. Goldberg gives lectures and seminars on hypnosis and regression and progression therapy as well.
	He is also a consultant to corporations, attorneys, and the local network media.
	So if you've ever wondered whether you lived before and may live again, this is going to be an evening you're not going to want to miss.
	He just had a CBS movie entitled The Search for Grace.
	I know he's proud of it.
	He should be.
	I saw it.
	It was a wonderful movie.
unidentified		dr goldberg is next From the Kingdom of Nye, this is Dreamland with Art Bell on the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, good evening, everybody.
		I'm still, that report from Linda Howe is still resonating within my brain.
		That was really something.
		Dr. Bruce Goldberg is going to talk to us about lives, past lives, future lives.
		The foreword to his book, by the way, is by Raymond Moody, Dr. Moody, who has been a guest here any number of times.
		And this is an area of particular fascination for me, as many of you know.
		So now to Dr. Goldberg.
		Dr. Goldberg, are you there?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I certainly am, Yam.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It's a pleasure to reincarnate with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, to reincarnate with us.
unidentified		This is what they call in football a three-peat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Look, a lot of people, even though we warned them and promoed your movie, don't know about Search for Grace, the search for grace.
		Tell them about your movie and about that case, Doctor.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, one of the criticisms that not only my work, but my colleagues have had over the years, is that even though the clinical cases are very dramatic and very impressive, and of course that's my main purpose, people come to my Los Angeles office not to document lives, but to solve clinical issues.
		But they say, well, can you prove it?
		Can you substantiate with evidence?
		And what I did was I had a case that was approached to me by a producer who wanted to do a movie for CPS.
		And I said, okay, so I went to my files, and there was a patient of mine that I work with on the East Coast who I regressed her into 46 lives.
		And number 46 was a life that she lived in Buffalo, New York, as a woman who was, shall we say, a very disturbed woman, if you will, a woman who was unhappily married and she was having numerous affairs on her husband.
		And finally, she met up with the wrong guy at the wrong time, and he murdered her on May 17, 1927, Buffalo.
		Her name was Grace Does and she gave me about three dozen facts in Trance Which were very specific, including her last name, where she lived, her mother's, her maiden name, her husband's occupation, where he worked, etc.
		And I did initial research just to check on the validity of this.
		And of course, the newspapers report murders the last couple hundred years or so, you'll always read about something, even if you're a Jane Doe.
		And in fact, they did have this case where the name was checked out, and a few facts were checked out.
		So I then just did the initial research, and then I turned it over to CBS themselves, and they had an independent researcher verify the other material.
		As it turned out, out of about the three dozen facts she gave, not only were every one of them verified, with the exception of two, two of the facts that she gave were in dispute, which of course was a problem but not a big problem.
		And the two facts were she said that she was 32 years old when she was murdered and she was not looking forward to her 33rd birthday.
		And that her son's name was Cliff.
		Now the newspaper reports that she was 30 years old and they said that her son's name was Chester Jr., Chester being her husband, her husband's first name.
		As it turned out, doing the research, now in New York being a closed state, you cannot just go into the Department of Public Health records and look up a birth certificate as you can in California and probably can in Nevada.
		What you have to do is you have to go to the governor's office and you have to fill out a requisition slip and you have to go to a big bureaucracy.
		CBS got that permission, of course, with no problem.
		As it turned out, in 65 years, 1927 to 1992, the only entity, meaning a person or corporation or any other specific situation, to request and to get permission to get into the records was CBS News in 1992.
		And as it turned out, she was right.
		The reporters were wrong.
		She was born on January 21st, 1895.
		She was 32 years old.
		Her son's name was Clifford C. Does.
		And the only way she could have known that is one of two ways.
		Either she was, in fact, the reincarnation of Grace Does, which is what I feel she is, or somehow she accessed her soul.
		Either way, it establishes reincarnation or at least a life after death or a permanence of the soul.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, how do we know, Doctor?
		You know, Dr. John Mack was on our show a couple of weeks ago, and he was set up by a lady, and she got him.
		I don't know if you're familiar with that story or not.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. John Mack was set up.
		A lady came and told him a story, and he made it part of his book, One of Many Case Studies, and she came back later and said, ha ha ha, it was a setup.
		I set you up.
		None of this really happened.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm just wondering, how can you know for sure that she did not research this lady's life and get the facts?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Because the only way she was not a member of the family, okay, that's a given.
		She was from a totally different part of the country.
		And even if she did research the facts, you see, I'll accept that premise.
		The problem here is that this is now one of the most documented cases of the century.
		It's even better than the Bridie Murphy case because now we have the real, we call her Ivy, not her real name, but that's what I call her.
		If she did research the facts, she would have given all the information that was in the newspaper reports, including the false data of her age and her son's name.
		She could not possibly have known that.
		In fact, I tell you I had an interesting confrontation.
		I was doing an interview the day before the movie.
		The movie aired May 17th, and on May 16th, I was interviewed on WGR Radio in Buffalo, which is a 50,000-watt station, which I've worked with for about 12 years or so.
		I've done interviews on and off over the years.
		And the host of the show, who's an old friend of mine, his name is Tom Barreley, and you may know him.
		And Tom says, you know, I did some research, Doctor, and I have a person on the line I want you to speak to.
		And I said, sure.
		Now, what he said was that the Department of Public Health said that for $10, anybody can walk in there and get the birth certificate of anyone, including Governor Cuomo.
		And I said, really?
		I said, let me speak to the person, using my L.A. Law cross-examination vest.
		And I spoke, John was very nice to Ellen.
		He's a supervisor.
		And he said that, oh, excuse me, but Doctor, I think before you even ask me any questions, there's been an error here.
		You see, Mr. Bowerley spoke to one of my employees in reference to that, and my employee gave him the wrong information.
		You see, I am the supervisor, and any request for birth certificate goes to my office before they're released.
		Nobody, Jesus Christ couldn't get a birth certificate without having a family member, being a family member or having an absolute permission granted.
		There's nobody that can get in here without a request filled out, signed in triplicate, and filed in the Department of Public Health.
		So what he did was totally validate the idea that she could not have possibly known.
		There's no way she could have known it.
		Not only that, but Grace knows what people don't know unless they read the new book, is that this is a woman whose family disowned her.
		I mean, nobody wants, there's no pictures of her.
		There's no, there's, I mean, there's legal records of her marriage and her birth and her death certificate, of course.
		But there's no, this is not the person that people talk about at Thanksgiving dinner.
		This is a woman who was just like, just, you know, just ostracized, if you will.
		So there's no way that it's physically impossible for her without getting into the Department of Health Records, unless she did a James Vond routine.
		There's no way she could have possibly gotten that information, and that makes it extremely very valuable, especially those two facts.
		So now in John Mack's case, I don't know about that case, but I'll tell you one fact.
		I guarantee I can tell you the source.
		The source is most likely an organization called SissyCop based in Buffalo, New York, by a man named Paul Kurtz, a name I'm sure you probably know.
		He's a parapsychological debunker who would like to use magicians to set up people.
		But this woman, not only do I know she was not set up because of that, but here's another interesting fact.
		Here's a woman who she refused all interviews.
		I'm like her agent here.
		She refused to go on, all the panel shows wanted to do interviews with her.
		And that fact, people now want to do.
		In fact, major magazines and newspapers want to do interviews with her.
		She refuses any and all publicity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's another good measure.
unidentified		Yeah.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And I guess you also, by the way, another thing too is here's another interesting measure.
		People always talk about the finances.
		You know, they always like to get down to the old greenbacks.
		And this is not gold coins, but American dollars.
		But what they said to me was that, well, what about the right fees?
		Well, Ivy, or the real Ivy, signed over the rights to me.
		She did not get a cent from this.
		In fact, her advice to me was, prior to me dealing with CBS, she said, I want you, Dr. Goldberg, to get the message out in only the way you know how to do.
		Which means, of course, using the media for education and getting the point across, as I am well known to do.
		So here's a woman who got nothing out of this.
		Zero.
		I mean, nothing, no one knows who she is except for me.
		And in fact, I'll tell you another validation, which is kind of indirect.
		I got a call from an attorney in Buffalo, New York, who called me about a few days after the movie aired.
		The granddaughters of Gray Stoes, who are alive, they're baby boomers, if you will, they had to contact an attorney to get to contact me.
		They want to meet the real Ivy because they obviously believe that she is the reincarnation of their grandmother.
		And so, I mean, here is an attorney and four granddaughters, one of which, who looks exactly like the real Gray Stowes, have already contacted me trying to get me to hook up with the real Ivy.
		So, I mean, there's so much information coming up here.
		There's so many things that are happening that are just, there's nothing to disavow it.
		There's everything to support it.
		And like I say, what is her benefit?
		She has nothing to gain by it.
		So, I mean, this is something that the research itself was very properly done, and it was done by an independent organization, not by me.
		And therefore, you know, I mean, there's no way to disavow it.
		So, I mean, this is not going to be a reincarnation of what Dr. John Mack went through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Doctor, I want to understand what launched you into this whole search in the first place.
		In other words, how did you get from retirement, dental retirement, to where you are now?
		What launched you into this search to find out about reincarnation?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay, first, when you mentioned retirement from dentistry, which is true, although I do do malpractice consulting, you have to understand your listeners who do not know me, I am a very young retired dentist.
		When I was going to college in the late 60s and federal school in the early 70s, 70s or 74, in the 60s, I was not interested in watching plays or the movie like Hair.
		I had no interest in reincarnation.
		I was a very straight biochemistry student at Southern Connecticut State College in New Haven.
		So I had no interest whatsoever in any form of metaphysics until about 1972 when I took an astrology course.
		I started reading about astrology.
		And then I read the Bridney Murphy case.
		Maury Bernstein subsequently has become a very good friend.
		But I read the Bridney-Murphy case, and I found that as a scientist and clinician, I found that extremely interesting.
		And I think, you know, I want to test this hypothesis.
		In dental school, I decided I wanted to use hypnosis for pain control and apprehension control, which is very important.
		It's an excellent use for dentistry.
		And I used it for 13 years in my dental practice.
		However, I wanted to test the hypothesis.
		While I was a resident being trained in Florida, I took a course by the American Society of Clinical Hypnosis, which, by the way, does not believe in nor in any way accept the concept of reincarnation.
		I mean, they're a very hardline, very conservative, very straight-laced, and if not reactionary group.
		And so I sure didn't get my stimulation from them.
		And the very first patient I decided to test this on was a friend of mine.
		She was a graduate student at Florida State University in Social Work.
		And she went into nine different lives, which I thought was interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, no, wait a minute.
		You said you decided to test it on one of your patients.
		What made you, was it the earlier research you had done?
		I mean, what culminated in, hey, I know hypnosis.
		I'm going to try this and I'm going to see if there's anything to it.
		That must have been quite a step.
unidentified		Actually, it really wasn't.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you why.
		I'll tell you why that wasn't such a big quantum leap.
		The quantum leap was taken with deciding to do the hypnosis for dental purposes and to use it in my practice, which is what the American Society trained me to use it for.
		While I was being trained, one of the psychiatrists who was training me, he said to me, he said, you know, doctor, he says, you're a young doctor, and I was just right out of dental school.
		And he said, you know, most people take this course to the CE units, and they go home and they put a plaque on the wall and they talk to their grandchildren about it later on, but no one ever uses it.
		Very few of us ever use it.
		He said, you are very talented.
		You've got a great voice and technique and you're very assertive and you've got a lot of characteristics here that are ideal.
		So I want you to just know that from my perspective, I want you to use this in your practice.
		And I said, you know, I said, I drove hundreds of miles to take this class, and I didn't do it just to impress my wall with my other degrees.
		I said, I intend to use this very fully.
		So that was a very nice compliment.
		When I got back, though, so testing the hypothesis, you don't just read about hypnosis, you have to do it.
		It's a very clinical and very hands-on approach, if you will.
		So using hypnosis on my, this was not really a patient, she was a friend of mine, a colleague, if you will, later on.
		She simply said, look, if you're going to do hypnosis, why don't you do it with me?
		I think this is kind of fun.
		I'd like to try it.
		Just, you know, it's relaxing.
		It's automatically a positive thing to do.
		So I figured the worst I could do is just learn a few techniques.
		And, you know, if I fail, whatever, it's a friend of mine.
		No harm, no foul, as they say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would think anybody who would volunteer for it would automatically be considered to be a good prospect, wouldn't they?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, she was open-minded.
		What I didn't know until later on, until after working with her, was that she was a somnambule, which is the relatively rare kind of person, about one in 20, who can actually go into a very deep level of trance, speak foreign languages fluently in trance, and even give enough information for complete validation.
		But that really wasn't my interest at the time.
		I didn't perceive at that time, I didn't do a progression and focus on me doing a documented case on CBS in 1974.
		As it turned out, she went into these nine different lives.
		And what was interesting was that while I was working with her, I wasn't doing anything therapeutically at least purposely.
		I was just using experiments, techniques, and asking questions and finding out how to deepen the lead trans level, doing some of the things that we do in hypnosis.
		She had two habits in a phobia that I wasn't even aware of.
		She was a smoker, but a very infrequent one.
		She had a bulimic habit, which is an eating disorder, which of course is easy to hide if you don't live with the person or know them that well.
		And then she also had a fear of water, which I didn't know because we used to go to the beach, and she would never go into water.
		But you know, a lot of women don't like to do it because of skin issues or whatever.
		They just like the sunpan themselves.
		But she was afraid of the water.
		As a result of going through these regressions, she overcame each of those three issues.
		And I wasn't even trying to work with her.
		I never gave her any direct suggestions or any techniques.
		She just, by going through the experience and by going through what I didn't know at that time was a technique I was led to document and develop called the superconscious mind type, which we'll talk about, was able to actually help her to raise her own soul's energy and rise above the issue, like the immune system, if you will, and was able to permanently, I mean, I knew her for about 13 years or 12 or 13 years later.
		She eventually moved up to the East Coast and I knew her professionally at colleagues.
		So here's the woman who overcame these issues very, very extremely.
		So that really got me into the idea that, you know, something, this deserves more attention.
		I immediately developed a part-time practice.
		Even before I developed my dental practice, I was actually a resident at the time.
		And when I moved back to Baltimore to open up my dental office, I practiced dentistry only two years full-time and hypnotherapy part-time.
		Within two years, hypnotherapy was now my full-time practice, and dentistry was about 10 hours a week.
		So it was a very intense dedication and commitment very early to hypnotherapy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, something I really want to ask you about, and it's that moment.
		In other words, you may have heard, read, done research about people with prior lives and all the rest of it, but I doubt that it can compare to getting your first subject under and that moment when you realize you have led them into another life.
		It must have raised the hair on the back of your neck.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, it did.
		What happened was that, see, what happened first in dealing with my colleague here, she went to, the life that she went through the first, was a life in which she drowned on board a ship in about the early 1700s.
		And she went through the death experience, including the suffocation and everything that the helplessness and the hopelessness of drowning, whatever it means, which is not something that people would want to think of how to spend a nice Sunday evening.
		And that experience, which was very emotional, but of course perfectly safe.
		At the same time, when I saw that, when I saw the intensity, this is a woman who was, I knew her, she was a very bright, very quick mind, very global, very open-minded person.
		But here's a woman who is not an actress.
		She wasn't a theater major.
		She was a social work major.
		And here she was going through these contortions, these intense things.
		And I said, boy, if this isn't real, then, you know, I'm going to eat my proverbial hat.
		And as it turned out, this was very critical in an immediate relief of that particular phobia, which, again, I didn't know existed.
		And within about three or four days, when I saw her next, she was swimming in the ocean, not just watching it.
		And that was, to me, extremely impressive.
		I said, boy, this is like when the student is ready, the teacher will be there, and necessity is the mother of the proverbial invention.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, you helped her get back on the horse and ride again?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Basically, I like to think of myself as not really solving people's problems or curing people, but simply training them to do it themselves.
		And what I did with her was trained her to access literally her higher self, which we'll talk about.
		And she was able to overcome these issues.
		She was really mostly by herself, just needed a little what I call karmic tweak, as I call it.
		But the effect upon me was dramatic in the sense that I said to myself, whoa, this is like the light bulb going over your head.
		Or this is the thing that I said to myself, I'm going to now devote more time to this.
		I'm going to check this out, and I'm going to do more and more of it.
		She referred a lot of her classmates to me and other people that she knew in town who this was Tallahassee, Florida, which was Florida State University is like one of the major industries in town, if you will.
		And so I had a lot of, I had this in practice, and I had a lot of experience and a lot of people to work with, and it just got more and more interesting and more and more therapeutic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, that's how it all happened.
		Hold on, doctor.
		We'll be right back to you.
		My guest is Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		He'll be back in a second.
		Do you have hard water?
		I certainly did.
		I have well water.
		Really good water, as a matter of fact, except it was hard, as well water would be.
		And it does a lot of predictable things, decreases water pressure as it clogs your pipes, this, I don't know what you'd call it, gunk, junk.
		And it'll put spots on your glassware.
		You'll know you have it if you have that.
		Pour subsing of soap and shampoo in the shower.
		You already know about all that.
		So if you have hard water, you know about it.
		It's scaling is what it's really called.
		Out at the end of the water pipe, I had a lot of it, or at least some of it.
		And when they put this on, they said, look, in a few days, it's going to start falling off.
		And sure enough, it did.
		I would never have advertised this had I not first used it.
		Then the scaling in the pipes broke out too.
		And then my water began to clear.
		And when it did, it was fantastic.
		And it is.
		This water is better for your skin, hair, food, clothes, appliances, car, pool, spas, whatever you've got that uses water.
		It's all done with Space Age magnetic technology.
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		It's about $400 for the average residents.
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		If it does not do what we say it does, you get your money back.
		Simple as that.
		Call toll-free 1-800-400-1999.
		That's 1-800-400-1999.
		And now the Seacrane Company and the DL Digital Telephone.
		I spend a lot of time on the telephone, folks.
		Half my life, it seems.
		And so, of course, a portable telephone is just the ticket for me.
		Except I couldn't stand normal portable telephones.
		Your neighbors interfere.
		You get hum, click, disconnect.
		You know how they sound.
		I get them here on the air.
		You know how they sound.
		Usually real hummy and wishy.
		What does happen to us?
		Past lives, future lives.
		Are there rules to reincarnation?
		Is everybody reincarnated?
		What's the deal?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, the deal is actually more fully explained.
		I'll summarize it for you.
		But in my older book, Past Lives, Future Lives, the Valentine publication, there's a chapter where I talk about what happens in between lives and how you choose your next life.
		And in fact, there are techniques and tapes that are available that people can actually go through that experience.
		I call that the superconscious and the soul plane.
		We can talk about that later, too.
		But basically, what happens is that when the soul, you have to understand the soul is equivalent to this radio signal.
		This radio signal is electromagnetic radiation.
		Television signal is also the same kind of radiation.
		It's harmless radiation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And your soul is, and we've proven this scientifically over many years, this soul is in fact electromagnetic radiation.
		We can photograph it.
		We can weigh it.
		We can prove it exists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait, wait a minute.
		You're running too fast.
		We can weigh the soul?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, interestingly, there was a man named McDougal in the early part of the century who did a study where he had people on these, they had of course signed permission for this.
		He had these on these very large analytical balances.
		When I was studying chemistry, we used to use these very fine balances to measure very small weights of matter, solids.
		Well, he had a gigantic version of these analytical balances.
		And what he did was he had people who were about to die.
		And they give him permission to allow them to weigh them while they were dying.
		And what happened was that at the moment of death, upon the expiration, and of course they were hooked up with various machines to show when they actually physically crossed the spirit, as we call it, or clinically died, there was about a three-quarter of an ounce difference in the weight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And that was actually quite a reliable study.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've heard of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you're telling me that was a real study?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		McDougal was a very qualified man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what happened to that data?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, the data's around.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		the study was done about 1913, so science of today nobody has decided to replicate that recently that I know of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why not?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well you have to understand you're dealing with a litigant society and how many people it's harder to get bodies cadavers to medical school, let alone people to put themselves on boundaries.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, would you lie here while you die, please?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I don't think you're going to see too many ads in the paper.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Please sign up and call this number, 1-800 dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know how many individuals were involved in that study?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I really don't.
		I read the original study years ago, about 20 years ago, but it was a study that was done, I believe it was done in June, but I'll have to double check.
		Anyway, it was a real bona fide study, and it can be searched.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible.
		All right, we're at the top of the hour, so I've got to pause here.
		Dr. Bruce Goldberg is my guest.
		Past Lives, Future Lives, that incidentally, title of a book he's also written.
		We'll be back.
unidentified		We'll be back.
		From the Kingdom of Nine, you're here in Dreamland with Art Bell.
		To participate in the program, call toll-free, 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
		Or the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		This is the CBC with Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening to all you three-quarters of an ounce types.
		Maybe some with a little.
		I wonder if it varies around.
unidentified		Some have more soul than others.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a question to ask.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll get back to Dr. Goldberg and ask it in just a moment.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we were talking about the idea of in-between life state, and I was referring to the idea that the soul or the subconscious mind, which is identical to a radio or TV signal, the electromagnetic radiation, in neurology or medicine, we refer to this as the alpha brainwave level, which has been documented since the early 50s.
		Well, as it turns out, what happens is that there is a rather standard scenario that occurs during the in-between life experience.
		But first, let me just go back to the scientific aspect of this.
		We can weigh the soul to approximately three-quarters of an ounce, as was done in the early 1900s.
		We can photograph it.
		Kurlian photography, developed by the Russian researcher Kurlian in the early 40s, shows that you can take it's a human aura or the soul that you can actually photograph.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I have a question about that.
		What is Kurlian photography actually taking a picture of?
		In other words, I can imagine that a human body would have an aura of thermal energy around it or even some kind of very weak electromagnetic energy.
		What is it photographing?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		What you're actually photographing is the actual soul, because what goes on here is that the thermodynamic energy you're referring to, such as our 98.6 body temperature, would not emanate very far off the body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it doesn't.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Releophotography shows that when the animal, human or lower animal or even plant, is excited, there's a dramatic increase in the aura around the body.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You can't do that with thermodynamic or with the electromagnetic, like the gravity around the Earth doesn't change very much, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then my question is, what force, well, you're going to say the force of the soul, what force is it actually measuring?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Scientifically, it's got to be seeing something we can measure.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Electromagnetic radiation is what it's measuring.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		That's about light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Electromagnetic radiation.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But there's no transformer popping up the voltage.
		It's not becoming a 100,000 watt signal from the 50,000 watt.
		See, the body doesn't change that much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so then what permutations in the aura are you able to observe?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, you know, you have to understand, when they take these photographs, the photograph is a photograph.
		We don't know the exact myth of what they're getting.
		It is definitely the representation of our aura or our electromagnetic field around our body.
		But the point is, is that it does violate most of the physical laws that we're trained in in physiology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, I've just never understood, clearly, in photography, what kind of special process is being used?
		What kind of photograph?
		Not just regular.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're going to have to reincarnate the late Dr. Curlian to find out because I've never done the procedure.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I've just seen the photograph.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But basically what we say, we can photograph it, we can weigh it, we can observe the phenomena via automatic writing as other indirect ways of perceiving the presence of a soul.
		So we know that the soul...
		That is not even a debate anymore.
		It hasn't been for many decades.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For some people, Doctor, it is.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It is, but not for scientists, okay?
		Delayed publicly, you know, there's a Flat Earth Society, too, but I'm not a member, you know.
		I don't have a card.
		Anyway, so the presence of the soul is important because it does actually show that there is a life after death.
		And of course, things like the documented cases and other things that we can do just only add to the data.
		What happens in between lives is very interesting.
		You mentioned a very good, a very dear friend and a very qualified man, Ray Moody, who of course turned near-death experience in 1975 in his book, Life After Life.
		Well, as it turns out, his experience of the core experience of a near-death experience is very similar to what happens when a person actually does die in a past life.
		What they do is they do go through the tunnel, if you will.
		Most of them do.
		There's a variation, but there's a core experience there.
		They do have the presence of light and colors and sometimes sounds.
		They do have the presence of a guardian angel, if you will, a loved entity.
		It might be an image of a Christ or other religious leader.
		It might be an image of a grandparent or some other person that they've known who's on the other side.
		They do have this feeling of empowerment, of peace, of freedom from physical, whatever they were suffering from, whether it be a heart attack or a spear in the chest, whatever it may be.
		And, of course, they're always perfectly safe when they do this.
		Now, what happens in between the mechanism now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, I want to stop you for a second.
		I saw a couple of physicians.
		I think it was, oh, I don't know.
		It was CBS or some network recently did something on the near-death experience.
		They had physicians who came on presenting the other side, saying, look, the brain has synapses.
		As the brain dies, it dies from the outside, Rushing toward the center.
		So we are not surprised that people who are dying see a bright white light that gets smaller and smaller and more intense as the outer portions of the brain die.
		How would you counter that?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would counter it very simply, and I will counter it not only with the work of Ray Moody, but also with a very good colleague and a mutual friend of ours, Dr. Kenneth Ring from the University of Connecticut, who wrote a book in 1980, which no one seems to have ever heard of called Life or Death.
		It's a great book, but it's very technical.
		What happened here is that, you see, what Dr. Ring reported, and Dr. Moody didn't really report this that much until later on.
		Ring was the one who really focused on the idea of precognitions as a characteristic of near-death experience.
		What happened was that Dr. Ring would report in his book and subsequent books afterwards, that people would have these premonitions of future events and they would document it.
		They logged them in with little computers and they kept registries of these.
		And these people would not only perceive them at the corner of a room where they would see the dials of what their blood pressure was when they were having a near-death experience, which of course they can't see when you're lying on a slab in an OR, but they also would report their cousin getting in a car accident three weeks hence and things like that that were actually documented.
		Now, I know it was a woman that was on this network, especially I saw it myself, and I understand her cowlessness and her mentality, but she also has a reputation of being very hard to know as anti-parapsychology.
		See, I have to understand there's no such thing as an objective opinion.
		What she can't describe, though, and what you can't explain, she was dealing with the neurophysiology of which I have a background, and I understand what she was saying, but she can't explain the precognition or what I call progression in paranoia featuralized, where these events actually come true.
		They do not come true when people are out of this near-death experience in the normal waking state.
		We're not talking about psychics or sensitives or people who have that experience.
		We're talking about only people who have this experience as a result of the near-death experience.
		So therefore, that gives, again, indirect but very substantial evidence.
		Anyways, there are various different procedures.
		Everybody has their own mentality.
		For example, in Past Lives Future Lives, I described a talk show host from Baltimore who's now in New York, Harry Martin, who's now at WABC-TV in New York, who went to this dome experience where he would choose his next life.
		He was in a dome experience and almost the equivalence of a network headquarters where you'd have monitors showing all your past lives, your future options, and then he would have his masters and guides.
		His higher self would be there, his departed relatives.
		He had all kinds of advice as to what to choose in his next life.
		Other people might report being on the Himalayan mountaintops or whatever you feel comfortable is what you're given.
		But there is an in-between life state where you are accessing what we call your higher self, which, as you'll see, is very important for the therapeutic components of what I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I've got to touch on it.
		Religion is going to mix into all of this for a lot of people.
		And so I would ask you, is there any report that these people give of a review, a judgment of any sort with regard to the life just lived?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's very interesting.
		That question has come up in the past.
		And I tell you, I don't know anybody in the world that has the experience I have of doing over 30,000 aggressions on 10,000 individual people in 20 years.
		And I have never had that.
		I've never had anybody ever report to me what you're calling the judgment or the judgment day, if you will.
		What they get is a very objective overview of what they've done and not focusing in on their faults, but simply, okay, now this is what you've done, and this is what needs to be done, and this is what your options are.
		Now, what do you want to do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a kind of a judgment, though, isn't it?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Not really.
		A judgment to me is when you are bad evil, you go to hell, you go to heaven, you go to purgatory.
		That's judgment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, but maybe we are, in the end, required to, in effect, judge ourselves.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, you could always say, judging not, let ye be judged.
		But what I'm thinking is that there isn't the idea of somebody, some white-bearded, white-cheated person with pointing finger, so to speak.
		It's a very objective, very beautiful, peaceful, ethereal experience that's described in various different forms.
		But that seems to be the bottom line where you have this overview.
		It's what I call a global assessment.
		And this is done from what we call the soul plane.
		I described the various plane concepts in Translified Future Life for those of you who listeners that are interested in more detail.
		This is basically gotten from metaphysical literature.
		But basically, they have this, they're on a different dimension, if you will, where there are no physical laws as we know it.
		Anytime you leave the Earth plane, even in a near-death experience, assuming that you're going to what we call the astral plane or the next highest plane, there are no physical laws as we know it.
		In fact, you're in the space-time continuum, which means that past, present, and future are all simultaneous, which is more fully explained in the new book, The Search for Grace, which is just Hut Off the Presses, published by In Print Publishing, and it's just out now.
		And what I'm trying to say here, you have a way where you have the choice.
		It's not like what people say, you know, I just, I have bad karma, so that's why I've done what I've done.
		That's what I call the karmic cop-out, or the excuseitis, as I call it.
		And to me, that I will always confront, as you know me, I'm not exactly a shy person.
		And I will always say, look, you choose this.
		You may have made some mistakes, or maybe you didn't follow the path that you wanted to do, but you can always correct it.
		There are very few things in life that you really can correct.
		In fact, quantum physics, which is the basis of the field, says that our thoughts create the reality.
		Therefore, the only thing that we know in the universe, we're not even sure of this, is there's only one mind out there, and that is your mind or my mind or your listener's mind.
		We don't know there's any other mind out there.
		We don't know what else even exists in reality, but we do know that our thoughts do create a reality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, all right, a quick technical question about this plane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you're on this plane, I take it you have a kind of consciousness, and your consciousness is a product of the life just lived, and you retain that until the moment you make your choice about the next?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You actually retain, not only do you retain the life of which you just lived, but you also, this is what we call your ultimate consciousness, which is, by the way, a constant in quantum physics equations.
		That's how scientific it is.
		You have a consciousness and an awareness of all your past lives, all your few lives, all your parallel frequencies, and all the possible combinations and permutations for you to select from.
		It is a global menu.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		See, so this is why there's no excuse side of successes.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Now, people can always deny things and use their defense mechanisms as people are want to do, but the point of my therapy is to get people beyond the defense mechanisms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, while you're on that plane, it seems to me that almost, for some people, might be considered to be an eternal hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is, sentenced to live life after life after life after life.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, you had the right point, but the wrong term.
		The eternal hell that people would describe, this is going to offend certain people, and I'm not running for office.
		Basically, according to my research and my experience, and again, it is voluminous, the hell that we talk about, what people have related to, is really the earth plane.
		What you're living in right now is the hell.
		There's nothing below the earth plane, no matter how you slice it.
		I've never had any evidence of anything below the earth plane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Put another way, this is as bad as it gets.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		As bad as you allow it to be.
		You see, you can always improve things.
		I mean, I have dramatic cases that are reported in both books.
		I mean, Ivy, here's a woman, let's just deal with Ivy for a moment, the real Ivy, was murdered by the same man 20 times in 46 lives.
		He tried to murder her on three different occasions in her current life.
		And had she not have gone through this experience, she probably would be belly up or face down in her 21st experience of being killed by this man that we call Johnny in this life and Jacob in 1927 Buffalo life.
		So here's a woman who is constantly, the hell was simply being murdered by this guy, the victimization and the karmic retribution, if you will, of not learning the lesson of finally standing up to your rights and getting on with your life and removing this obsession, obsessive compulsive disorders will be called, and to rise above this.
		And that was really the whole point of the book.
		See, the Search for Grace book, the reason why that is very different from Past Lives, Future Lives, is because the Search for Grace, not only is it a documented case that's fully documented, but it also reads as a nonfiction murder mystery.
		You know, the Buffalo Police Department today consider the Grace Does case an unsolved murder.
		And I had a very nice conversation with a man named Sandy Constantino, who is the Tanawanda wish, who was actually murdered, the chief of detectives.
		And he, at least he was in 1992.
		And he said to me, he says, well, doctor, you know, we know who the murderer was.
		He's a history of the Shinado.
		And I said, Sandy, you know who it is?
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Who is it?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Knowing police mentality, since I'm a forensic consultant, I knew he would assume it would be the husband.
		And I said, well, that's very good, Sandy.
		The problem was that Chester Does had a broken leg the day of the murder, which, of course, was reported in the newspapers.
		And he said, yeah.
		And I said, plus, he also didn't drive a car.
		He was also illiterate.
		So therefore, he must have, unless he read to the cab and said, excuse me, cab driver, take me to this place where I can murder my wife and then bring me home and help me get through the door in my clutches, it wasn't the husband.
		He said, well, I guess you're right.
		So who was it?
		And I said, well, you can't try a man for a past life murder.
		So don't worry about the actual real murderer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, through your assistance, has Grace been murdered for the last time?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		The real ID now, this is now six years after this regression was done.
		And by the way, some interesting things have come up here.
		She, by the way, is in a very healthy relationship.
		She broke off the relationship with the man we call Johnny, or at least he was called Johnny in both the book and the movie.
		And she is very, very healthy.
		She's a very young woman, actually, but very, very bright, a professionally trained woman, and she's going all right, very happy.
		She loved the movie.
		She loved the new book, and she's a very totally empowered person who you wouldn't even literally recognize from her behavior now as to when I saw her six years ago.
		But the interesting thing about this case, though, again, it leads as a non-fiction murder mystery that, of course, was solved.
		It's also showing the principle of synchronicity, which is very well tuned throughout the entire book, which is the Jungian concept that says there are no coincidences.
		And what was synchronistic about this case was not only the fact that she would hook up with me, but that CBS, the network itself, was actually introduced to us indirectly, including the writer of the movie, over a 10-year period of time that I wasn't aware until long after the fact.
		So it was a very, very kind of an unusual circumstance that led us to all get together, where not only she was able to resolve her issues, but also this was able to be dramatized in a relatively accurate form on May 17th.
		By the way, for the benefit of your listeners, if they saw the movie, the 11 o'clock moons after the movie did show me on a little clip showing an actual aggression in one of my other patients.
		And some of your listeners may have also seen me on the Jerry Springer show that was aired in January, where he was taken into both a past and future life.
		In his past life, he shared a life where he was actually helped by his current wife's daughter.
		So there was a karmic tie with his past life experience in medieval England.
		But again, the point of all this is that this is a case where you have karmic ties, relationships.
		We know each other in past lives.
		We know the significant people in our lives.
		Victimization, which is always the issue I deal with.
		The idea of relationship ties, of empowerment, of overcoming issues.
		It doesn't matter what the issue is, as long as it's humanly possible and the patient is motivated, anything can be accomplished.
		And by the way, another theological reference here, in the movie, the very end of the movie, they showed the real grave being buried, and the marker on her grave said, ye shall be born again, which was a really not quite exact quote from John chapter 3, verse 7.
		The real quote is, ye must be born again.
		And on May 15, 1994, two days prior to the airing of the movie, Alex Ayers, the writer, and myself placed a marker on the real Grace Doze's grave, which was unmarked for 65 years.
		And in fact, that is there now.
		The movie was also aired synchronistically and not with intent.
		The network didn't do it for that reason.
		It was aired exactly 67 years to the day from her death.
		And not only that, but it aired to the hour because she was killed, murdered, apparently, according to the coroner's report, at approximately 10 p.m. Eastern Time, Eastern Standard Time.
		And the movie was aired between 9 and 11 p.m. on May 17th of this year.
		So it was to the exact moment that she died.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'm curious.
		What has the reaction to the movie been like?
		Have you had a lot of people coming forward to you saying, oh my God, this is what I need.
		I need to talk to Dr. Goldberg.
		I need to get this or that worked out.
		What's the reaction been like?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, the reaction has been unbelievably positive.
		I mean, I'm even surprised, and I've been in television installments for 15 years.
		When you're on the 11 o'clock news nationwide, you're going to get a variety of responses.
		Now, what I got was I really, I don't, my secretary has not logged in any calls of people saying, you're a jerk, I hate you, goodbye, or, you know, you're the devil reincarnate.
		I haven't gotten any of those.
		Most of those people wouldn't call me anyway.
		But what I've gotten was a vociferous response of very, very nice people who, of course, wanted therapy and wanted experiences.
		What's very interesting about this is that, this is what I want to talk about now for a few minutes.
		What I said on the news, you know, this is a three-minute clip that went nationwide, and I know you saw it in Las Vegas.
		What happened was I discussed, if you recall the news clip, I discussed accessing the higher self, the superconscious mind level, perceiving the soul's awareness, perceiving into past and future lives, being able to change your future by empowerment.
		And what people responded to, as lovely as they were and were so appreciative, this is one of the reasons why I did it, was that they said, you know, Doctor, I've never in my entire life ever watched the 11 o'clock news and had somebody talk about the superconscious mind on the 11 o'clock news.
		And they just never got it before.
		I mean, you know, it just never came, especially from a credible source.
		And therefore, that was one of the main effects people got.
		Even those that, of course, many of them had their experiences and came to see me.
		I'm still getting lots of referrals from that.
		But what they said was that, we really appreciate you having the guts to say that, having that error, and being willing to take that stand, fearing, you know, knowing of the potential response, the response is real positive.
		And I knew it would be, but the point was that I have a certain karmic purpose or sub-cycle in this life of education.
		And I do not believe in education by, shall we say, by eggshellness.
		I believe in education by confrontation and by doing whatever has to be done.
		And the network was kind enough to, they edited, of course, it down, but they left the soundboards in the key points.
		So it was a very nice response and very appreciated.
		Even people who didn't come to see me just called in, and I had calls from all over the country.
		People said, you know, I can't come to Los Angeles to see you.
		But, you know, Doctor, keep up the good work.
		I'm really glad to say what you did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's wonderful.
		All of this begs all kinds of questions to me about the nature of time itself.
		The nature of time.
		Is there anything you can say about that?
		Sure.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of fact, in Past Lives, Future Lives, you understand, when I was dealing with Valentine, they didn't want me to devote too much time to the technical aspects of quantum physics in order that it would turn off the public.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		So I had to wait until the new book.
		The Search for Grace has three appendices in the back.
		Appendix C has an actual self-healing exercise, but Appendix A and B will give the complete background of how this therapy works, what we call transpersonal psychology.
		It will also tie in the space-time continuum in quantum physics.
unidentified		Yes.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		and it will give examples, diagrams, and it's very simply written so that you don't have to be a physicist or a scientist to understand it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What we're saying here We'll tackle this when we come back.
		We've got a bottom-of-the-hour break right now.
		Dr. Bruce Goldberg is my guest.
		His book, his latest book, The Search for Grace, was recently a CBS movie.
		I hope you had an opportunity to see it.
		We will be opening the telephone lines and taking questions for Dr. Goldberg.
		So if you're of a mind to ask one, put your dialing finger to the telephone and get going.
unidentified		coming up shortly From the Kingdom of Nye, we continue with your calls on Dreamland with Art Bell.
		Call Art now toll-free at 1-800-618-8255, 1-800-618-TALK.
		First time callers, Area Code 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Or the wildcard line at Area Code 702-727-1295.
		727-1295 in the 702 area code.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now again, here's Art Bell from the high desert.
		This is Dreamland.
		Good evening, everybody.
		I am Art Bell.
		My guest is Dr. Bruce Goldberg, and we're going to get back to him and more about past and future lives and the nature of time in just a moment.
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		All right, back now to our guest, Dr. Bruce Goldberg, and I was asking him a little bit about the nature of time.
		After all, if we come back in a succession of lives, both in the past and then into the future, it would certainly suggest, or it seems to me as you follow this, it would begin to suggest something about the nature of time itself.
		What about it, Doctor?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, what quantum physicists fate and actually prove both mathematically and experimentally is that all time is simultaneous and functions in a continuum.
		So there really is no beginning and no end.
		Past, present, and future events are really occurring all at the same time.
		The analogy that I used in both Past Life, Future Lives, and the Search for Grace is a simple one of a helicopter.
		If you're listening to the radio during the early morning and you're driving on the freeway or highway where you would live, and you hear this helicopter report about these traffic patterns, if you are in this car and there's a helicopter directly above you by 200 feet, and you have a CB and the helicopter has a CB, so you're a karmic good buddy here, and then there's a car five miles behind you where you just came from and five miles ahead of you where you're going to, you can't see a car five miles in front or behind you on the freeway or highway, it's too far.
		But the helicopter, because it's 200 feet above the freeway, can perceive all three cars simultaneously, which means your past, present, and future.
		It can also communicate with these cars because it has a C D and all these three cars have C D's.
		And what's interesting is that when you go into an alpha level, natural hypnosis, which is really a natural state that we go through through three to four hours of our waking day, every time you daydream, every time you watch television, read a book.
		Driving in a car, by the way, 25% of the time, it's documented you're in alpha or hypnosis.
		When you go into your REM cycle, the dream levels at night, which as you'll see is when basically all the therapeutic or the therapy actually occurs, that's another three hours a night.
		So you're spending about six to seven hours a day in a 24-hour day or 2,500 hours a year for every year of your life going through natural hypnosis, which is why it doesn't feel particularly unusual.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so that I may understand then time is just something we had to invent.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, time is only a concept that, of course, it's a label, just like you label anything else.
		But what I'm saying here is that, using the concept of quantum physics and what I just described, when you enter into a hypnotic level, you actually are doing automatically an out-of-body experience.
		You don't have to go to the corner of the room and observe and watch the silver cord.
		You actually are leaving your body every time you enter a daydream level.
		When you leave the body, you are now entering what I call the freeway of life here, and you are really now being the helicopter rather than the car, and therefore you are now able to go either back or forward in time.
		And since our thoughts, and this is where physics and mathematics really go together very well, since our thoughts go faster than the speed of light, we call that in physics a tachyon.
		Going faster than the speed of light means that you're going in reverse time sequence.
		So mathematics and physics, a conventional, not just quantum physics, but even conventional physics has proven that we can actually be a time machine and go back and forward in time.
		So therefore, all our past and future and present and future lives are occurring right now.
		We just label it for our own convenience, but we are not really asterisk.
		We are on the Earth plane, but not when you leave the Earth plane.
		And therefore, using hypnosis, what you're doing is an out-of-body experience, which means you're now leaving the Earth plane, entering into either the astral plane or anywhere up to the soul plane, and able to perceive your past, present, and future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we've got to get to telephones here, but here's a question came in by facts, so I've got a lot of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please, please, please ask your guest if God is just a mathematical equation.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		No, actually, what God is very interesting.
		This is something that is going to both disappoint and thrill some of your listeners.
		You can pray, you can go through all kinds of mentalities and rituals all you want to.
		You will never contact God by doing that because God has no conception to the lower five planes or the karmic cycle.
		What God is, is not a mathematical constant.
		It's actually the energy that we have a remnant of.
		Our superconscious mind, which is a clinical term, and it's actually provable, by the way.
		They're demonstrable.
		Our superconscious mind or what your listeners would be known in the literature as the higher self is actually a remnant of the God energy.
		The only time you ever go to meet the God energy is when you are perfect, when you ascend into the higher planes and go to either whatever you believe in, whether it be the 13th plane, the all-that-is, nameless plane, there's all kinds of names for it, that they're all man-made, if you will.
		But yet there is a God.
		God is energy, and energy is the basis of the universe.
		The Big Bang theory, which I, by the way, buy as a concept until proven otherwise, says that the universe began as a pencil point full of energy that exploded.
		It was energy, not matter, that preceded it.
		In fact, the basis of the universe is energy, nothing else.
		So the God energy is nothing but a perfect form of that energy, of which we have a remnant of, and therefore, yes, there is hope and salvation.
		And not only that, but I've done progressions.
		I developed the field of progression hypnotherapy in 1977 when I asked the patient to go to the origin of a problem, and she decided to go into the 23rd century rather than back in time, as I suspected she would.
		And I've taken patients as far forward as the 36th century.
		And that is documented in past life visualized.
		And so, yes, there is going to be quite a future for us for human forms and different climates.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seems to me you'd be in a position to do a little what would appear to be prophecy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, can you tell us what's coming?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, see, interestingly, the answer is yes, but no.
		I am not going to prophesize about anything because what I tried to demonstrate more so in the search for grace now rather than pass by future life, because I didn't really have that much time to do it there, is that there are not just one future, but there are parallel universes out there.
		So to make it simple, even though there's an infinite number of parallel dimensions, which was, by the way, demonstrated in Princeton University in 1957 by a man named Hugh Ebert III, who received his Ph.D. in quantum mechanics, which is the actual technical name of quantum physics, in Princeton, and Princeton is not exactly a matchbook university.
		It was mapped out by Martin Kruskal, his supervisor, during the next few years.
		But we've demonstrated parallel universes for 37 years.
		Now, what this shows is that, let's say, to keep it simple, from the experience of doing 17 years, you and I and everybody out there have at least five major groupings of different futures.
		We call them frequencies.
		Let's say frequencies one through five.
		And let's say that you are on frequency one right now, but your best frequency is number four.
		If you were then to perceive all five frequencies, which is what I do in my Los Angeles office, and by the way, your listeners can do that via tape, which I'll talk about later, then you can switch tracks and go to number four.
		So if I were to give you some scenario and say, well, you know, in 1999, this is going to happen, that will happen on a certain frequency, but not necessarily the one in which you are on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's fascinating.
		Let me tell you why that's fascinating.
		I've had a lot of people who do prophecy, and most of them say, Doctor, this is a future.
		It does not have to be this way, or there are alternatives to it.
		And almost to the person, they always say that.
		And that kind of coincides with what you're saying about the way it...
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And what they're doing is being very educated.
		I'm glad you had that experience because I don't.
		Most of the people that I have known and I have checked out, I feel like the reincarnation of Houdini half the time.
		But most of the psychics and channelers and mediums that I've checked out, especially in Southern California, have, shall we say, not weathered well with the test.
		And they have tried to become very, well, this is the future.
		I see it, and that's it, and everything, and they don't really get it.
		So I'm glad to see that at another end of the spectrum.
		But yes, there's always what we call a plastic future, which I described in the back of The Search for Grace in Appendix A. And what I'm saying here is that, and this is not me, but the quantum physicists saying that there are altars.
		So therefore, somebody who wants to give a prophecy, which is when you see shows like Recently Encounters on Fox and The Ancient Prophets in NBC, when they showed about how the world's going to end or you're going to have major catastrophes in the next five years, it's absolute garbage.
		It's quoted by Casey and the Bible and most Shadamas, and they're welcome to their opinion, and that's a parallel frequency, but it's not the one that I'm on, folks.
		And if you're on my frequency, you're going to be able to live in California without swimming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, look, we've got to get to the telephones.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		Hi.
		Hello there.
		Boy, ring, ring, ring, and then they're not there.
		On the hard line, I'm here with Dr. Goldberg.
		Hello.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Hi, this is Jim and Chico, listening to K-Pay.
unidentified		Yes, Jim.
unidentified		Years ago, I had a counter with a ghost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are those exactly?
unidentified		Well, the ghosts and culture, guys, they're actually astral bodies.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		When you die or clinically cross into spirit, that's the term that we use, you now become a less material form of a body that we call an astral body.
		So what you're getting are the different plane.
		In that astral dimension or astral plane, there are no physical as we know.
		So now what you see is a body that actually represents the space-time continuum.
		That's what people call ghosts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, while we're on the subject of ghosts, I've got some pictures of ghosts.
		The doggunnest thing I've ever seen.
		I consider them to be legitimate.
		One partially materialized, and another of a group of people in period dress taken recently, mostly materialized.
		They'll stand the hair on the back of your head up.
		Do you think that's possible?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, as a matter of fact, ghost photography was actually developed by such people as Hans Holzer about 30 years ago, and I've known some people in the East Coast who do that.
		There's also something called electronic voice phenomena, where you can have a regular tape recorder and go by a cemetery or even an older house that's been around, say, for 50, 60 years, and you can actually get voices of people of ghosts or poster guys that are actually living in that house.
		So this is a phenomenon that's very well documented.
		And in fact, I've seen some of the photos, I know Hans House, I've seen some of the photos myself, and yes, they will raise the hair in the back of your neck.
		And what's even more significant are the apparitions that are perceived.
		There's a woman who died in Chicago by this cemetery or by this large gated house, and she appears every so often the next number of years.
		There are many stories of that, many well-documented also that have been documented by TV cameras as well as by Polaroid films, which you can't fudge real well if you know the UFO literature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I'm referring to Gulf Fluor and other cases.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		So therefore, these are very impressive evidence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I am going to I would absolutely love to see them.
		All right, good.
		On the Toll Free line, you're on the air with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		I'm calling from Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oregon, yes, sir.
		Go ahead.
		Turn your radio off.
unidentified		Turn my radio off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off.
unidentified		It's off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, go ahead.
		You're on the air.
		No?
		Are you going to go ahead, sir, or should I move on to another call?
unidentified		No, I'm on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, go.
unidentified		I want to tell you, my father died soon after I had an opportunity to go to England, and my father appeared to me.
		I did not dare open my eyes, but he was there.
		And he said, you know, you've already been a nice guy.
		Just take care of your mother.
		And I was, like I said, I was afraid to open my eyes, but he was there.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Were you very close with your father?
unidentified		Yes.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Because you see, this is, I'll tell you why I asked that, because a poltergeist or someone who's recently crossed into spirit will usually communicate only with one member of the family.
		They may communicate with others, but they usually pick the person they feel closest to to relay their last messages or their advice or the presence that they are going on to a bigger place.
		And obviously he chose you rather than your mother.
		Did she have this experience?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, he's not there now.
unidentified		He's not there.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But he probably didn't.
		So he probably chose him.
		So this is very common.
		People, you know, one of the things I deal with in my Los Angeles office are bereavement issues.
		A lot of my patients are middle-aged people who have teenage sons or daughters who either were killed or murdered or died by accident or parents or loved ones, grandparents, and they can't get over the bereavement, which has depression and many of the characteristics.
		Not only can they do that by accessing them in their superconscious level, but they can also perceive future lives with them so that they...
		Well, it's not quite.
		You have more than one phone call, and I wouldn't like to consider a jail, which is a confinement.
		It's sort of like a place, and it's not a purgatory either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm being a little purposely.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		But your listeners out there, unfortunately, they've been brainwashed to think of it in forms of that, and that's what I'm trying to clear up.
		It's really a very open place where whatever you're dying from, if you're suffering from a disease, illness, pain, you are totally free from it.
		It's a very ethereal, beautiful, like a library in the sky, if you will.
		But the communication, you'll find that these communications that people receive from these spirits, if you will, or poltergeists, are really quite positive and very beautiful.
		They're not like desperate.
		Sometimes there is a difficulty in a traumatic death which has to be worked out.
		And one of the techniques which I'd like you to deal with more here is the idea of what we call a super conscious mind level, where the patient is trained to access their own higher self.
		Not only can they perceive their own past and future lives, but they can also access departed loved ones.
		They can access their own guise and be instructed as to how they can help empower themselves and to go on to their life and to accomplish goals and do many other things, as well as seeing future events.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Haven't you ever wondered, though, doctor, whether it's something we really ought to be doing?
		In other words, accessing this higher self while we're here.
		Is it something we're really intended to do or are we tampering with Mother Nature?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's the thing.
		You can't fool Mother Nature as the old Imperial commercial is.
		Basically, there's something called forbidden knowledge, which I know a lot of my colleagues don't like me to talk about because they don't seem to have this experience or they're afraid of it.
		But forbidden knowledge means that at a certain moment in time, if you're not supposed to know something, you don't.
		There's no way I can or the patient can, by accessing their higher self, receive information that's supervised by their own higher self, which is a perfect part of them and can't make a mistake on its worst day.
		There's no way they'll get something unless they're ready to receive it.
		Most of the time, they don't get the information they want because they're not ready for it.
		It's the other way around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, if we can do it, it's okay.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It's okay.
		Any information you think you're going to have, any kind of negative entity, there's no possession possibilities.
		The only thing you can do is benefit and grow from it and empower yourself and overcome the number one fear that people have, which is resolved by this therapy, which is xenophobia or the fear of death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I think I've got it.
		On the wild card line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good evening, Art.
		Hello, Dr. Goldberg.
		Hi, California talking.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		What part of California?
unidentified		California.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay, California.
unidentified		I'd like to know if you could explain this experience to me I had in the early 70s.
		We were sitting on a roof watching an eclipse of the moon and I was just sort of gazing at the moon and the stars and everything.
		It was really beautiful dark night and I could see a lot.
		And it was like all of a sudden I popped my head through a, almost like a rubber boot and like popped my head through a hole in space or something.
		And all of a sudden I was looking down a 45 degree angle at like shooting stars and cartwheels and just all kinds of fireworks and everything.
		You know, everything just changed.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		All right, now did you ever see the movie 2001?
unidentified		Yeah, I see it.
unidentified		This was way before that.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, basically, the reason I mentioned that is because there was a scene at the very end, which is really what you're describing.
		What you did was an out-of-body experience.
		What you did was you were, while you were looking at this eclipse of the moon, you actually were entering into it and were in an alpha level, an actual daydream, which you go through through, as I mentioned, six to seven hours every day.
		You did something different, though.
		What you did was, and the moon is important too because the moon has a very strange effect upon us here.
unidentified		Well, on cancer also, so that might have.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's very good.
unidentified		That's okay.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		The moon's your planet, and that's a double influence.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And an eclipse makes it like a quantinial influence, okay?
unidentified		You know, I've done, I've had plenty of out-of-body experiences also, but this was, I was taking away.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		This was a very deep and very significant one.
		This was one where you were actually doing some plane traveling.
		You probably were in a different dimension.
		You either could have gone to the astral, mental, causal, or aetheric plane, and therefore you weren't just doing an out-of-body experience on the earth plane.
unidentified		Eyes opened up, they had a scalpel over me ready to cut open my chest and do open heart.
unidentified		You know, massage.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		What happened during that time that you were out now?
unidentified		very much like what you speak of.
unidentified		My experience was of a feeling of a cylinder, of a color of a green-blue.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You see, now what you were doing then, let me just interrupt you, and this is beautiful because, you see, everybody's experience is personalized to whatever you expect.
		If you expect a cylinder, you get a cylinder.
		But what these cylinders represent are the parallel frequencies of your future options.
unidentified		You see?
		Yeah, well, that's the time thing.
		See, I was aware of all things being forward and backwards was all the same.
		Time was time.
		I mean, kind of like in the song Amazing Grace, When You've Live 10,000 Years, you have as many days as when you first began.
		That was a very overwhelming feeling.
		And Art, you know, when he was explaining to you about the helicopter and trying to give you a perspective on that before and after, my perception of that and how I've tried to explain it to people since is if you were sitting in the middle of your bed or a vastness somewhere and you stacked all the books that you've ever read and all the books that you will ever read around you and you could experience each one of those books completely as though the day you were reading them and you could appreciate them all at one time but
		that whole experience was just the ability to read.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good analogy.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It's a very good analogy.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Instead of using letters in a book, if you put that as energy itself and just absorbing the energy just like you would feel the rays of the sun, then you really get into the concept of a space-time continuum.
unidentified		Yeah, that was just my simplest way to explain it to people because I haven't told too many people because they think I'm a little screwy.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I very much appreciate your call for tourism.
		Well, one, it's a beautiful experience.
		And secondly, since you're from Missouri and you like to be shown, I appreciate your mentality behind it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really expect it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, ma'am.
unidentified		Okay, thanks, Rob.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bye-bye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was a good one, too.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		That was a very good one.
		I have something else to bring up, too, just to show you where people are coming from, because what you're describing is something that really is attainable.
		What I do, when I work with my patients in Los Angeles, what I do is I give them self-hypnotic tapes so they can go into both past lives, future lives, super conscious mind taps.
		They can go to the soul plane area to go in between the life to see how they choose their next life to access their higher self.
		These are things that are attainable by the average person, even without seeing someone like myself.
		So this is a very natural experience.
		And it's something that they don't have to just be a specifically chosen person to do.
		Everybody can do this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, why don't we go ahead and tell them, first of all, how do we get your book?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do we get your tapes?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the older book, Past Lives, Future Lives, is a Valentine book.
		It's available anywhere.
		And the new book, The Search for Grace, is hot off the presses, so it might not be in the stores or the malls for a few weeks yet.
		But they can always contact 1-800-CARMAR4U or 1-800-527-6248.
		And if you call my number, and that number will even be open tomorrow, I'll be happy to send you information about the various tapes, about the books.
		You can order the books directly from me if they're not in your bookstore, and you can get them autographed that way.
		And you can also get some more information.
		I'll be doing, on October 1st in Los Angeles, I'll be doing a workshop on taking people into future lives at the Marina Del Rey.
		And I'll be happy to send them specific information about that and an upcoming speaking engagement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, by the way, thank you very much for the autographed book.
		I've got one here, Search for Grace.
		The number is 1-800-527-6248, correct?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		And by the way, if you have a copy of the book in front of you, you'll notice there's two eyes looking at this woman from the early 1900s who's supposed to symbolize grace.
		Those eyes are my baby blues from an old newspaper photo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Those are your eyes?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Those are my eyes, yes.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		My eyes have seen the grace, as they say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's fascinating.
		All right, on the toll-free line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I am in Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Phoenix, KFYI, yes.
unidentified		You betcha.
		First time we talked, I had rain on the roof a long time ago.
		Dr. Goldberg, did you happen to practice dentistry in the University of Southern California at any time?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		No, I practiced dentistry in Baltimore for 13 years, and I moved out to Los Angeles in the early part of 1989, so I never practiced dentistry out here.
unidentified		That was a wonderful Dr. Goldberg.
unidentified		You gave me a root canal without anesthesia, and we are without anything.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, it wasn't me nor a relative of mine, but I'll tell you one thing.
		When I did dentistry for 13 years, I would use hypnosis on the majority of my patients.
		That was one of my reputation.
		But about 25% of the people that I work with in my practice then could go through root canals or surgery, fillings, any kind of procedure, and not have any form of local anesthesia behind it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I find that incredible.
		I've had root canals.
		I know root canals.
		I hate them.
		Oh, my God.
		You can really do that, Doctor?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm retired now at a very young age, but did you have a question, sir, though, about your experience?
unidentified		Well, no, I just wanted to, I was hoping it was the same Dr. Goldberg.
		We had no hypnosis either.
		But I would like you to know, as you probably know, that to, along with a different time span and all the experience, to know one woman well is to know all women.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, either that or perhaps the other way around.
		It's my experience that I know no woman well.
		I mean, you know them and you love them, but I'm not sure you ever really understand the feminine mystique.
		Anyway, back to the phones.
		On the first-time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Jennifer from Joshua Tree, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jennifer.
unidentified		I did miss the first part of the show, so I hope the questions I have haven't already been discussed.
unidentified		But I wanted to ask Dr. Goldberg, when you're on the astral plane, is there any dangers?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are we on the airplane?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Very good question.
		Jennifer, basically, you are, when you're on the astral plane, you have what's called a silver cord.
		And there is no danger of you really dying.
		People in near-death experiences, the only time they actually die is, of course, when they, medical, for medical reasons, will expire.
		But when you're having a near-death experience naturally without being, as a result of a heart attack or something medical, you are perfectly safe.
		In fact, if you do it via tapes like the tapes I was talking about, there's always a white light protection on those tapes to help you to, just in case, to give you additional protection, if you will, just so that the experience is as pleasant as possible.
		There's never any danger.
		If anything, the only danger in life is not going through these experiences because then you deny yourself the access of your higher self.
		You're perfectly safe.
		And like I say, the out-of-body experience tape is a very complicated one in the sense that you don't just play it once and all of a sudden, you know, go to Cleveland.
		But it takes a little bit of conditioning, but it's a very beautiful experience and it's one that, like I say, anyone can do.
		And have you had some experiences that have you had out-of-body experience that you can recall, Jennifer, that you're referring to?
unidentified		No, no.
unidentified		Well, actually, there was one experience, and I don't know if you would call it an astral thing, but I did have one experience where I was doing some pretty heavy thinking about nature and the earth, and I felt, you know, I had my eyes closed, and I felt like I had just zoomed away from the earth and saw everything in kind of a different way.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what you're describing.
		What you're describing isn't.
		That's one of the characteristics of a near-death experience.
		You may not have heard the earlier caller who was watching an eclipse on our rooftop.
unidentified		Yeah, I did hear that.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, he was describing a more exotic one.
		His was more visual with the lights and things like that.
		But basically, the feeling of freedom of the physical body, a disorientation, a feeling of peace and serenity, a feeling of loving energy around you.
		This is what an out-of-body experience is characterized by.
		See, a near-death experience is only one kind of out-of-body experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, listen, thank you very much.
		Doctor, I want to ask you, you know, I asked him at the time, did it scare you?
		And, you know, there are people who have been scared to death.
		I mean, if you've got a heart condition or something, and suddenly, like that man who called, your head pops into another dimension, it seems to me it could almost scare you to death.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But see, it doesn't.
		The proof of that is the fact that the near-death experience, the people who are being resuscitated from a cardiovascular episode, a myocardial infarction or others, they're the ones that come back.
		If it was so death-defined, they'd all be dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good point.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, ma'am?
unidentified		I'm calling from Salt Lake.
unidentified		My name's Barbara.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Salt Lake, okay.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
		Uh I wanted to ask the doctor an interesting question.
		Uh is it curling photography?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, curling photography developed by a Russian uh uh physicist in Curling in the early 40s.
unidentified		They photographed, they uh photographed the aura, right?
		Right, right.
		I was wondering if the test was ever made on a person that was dying, and if they did photograph that, if the aura faded into the body, or did it gather into a mass and rise above the body?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		The problem is that I don't know of any technology where they've had video cameras of curlions.
		It's always still photos.
		And I don't know of any research of that being done.
		The only thing I know that's close to that is what I mentioned earlier, the McDougal research, where they weighed the body right when it was expiring, and there was a three-quarter of an ounce difference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but surely they've done curlian photography of dead bodies.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I mean, curling photography of a dead animal or plant will show nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nothing.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that we know.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I just don't know of a time-lapse situation where they've, you know, while the person or the plant or animal is dying doing that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right, thank you very much.
		On the first time, Galine, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, this is Robert from St. Louis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Robert from St. Louis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Robert, speak up good and loud for us.
unidentified		All right, I had a story, and I wanted to know if he ever heard of anybody else who seen something like this.
		But when we were growing up, this was about 15 years ago, and one of my brothers, or two of my brothers, they seen what we thought it to be a demon.
		One brother said that one night, I guess he was about 13, he woke up and he said it was standing at the foot of the bed.
		He said it was about 2.30 in the morning.
		And he said this thing was as tall as the room, probably 8.5 foot tall.
		He said it was standing probably 8 feet away from him.
		He said it was so much darker than what you normally consider, you know, dark at night that you could see it like the lights on.
		And he said it was darker than pitch black.
		He said it was huge, muscular.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		What did this, let's call it this spirit do, if anything?
unidentified		It didn't do anything.
		But he said it stood there staring at him.
		He said it had glowing black eyes.
		And he said that it stood there at the foot of his staring at it for about two hours.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah?
unidentified		And my older brother, you know, my one brother told everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we're going to have to hold it there.
		We're getting some weird kind of echo.
		Oh, demons.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, basically, I wouldn't call that a demon.
		Obviously, I understand where he kept the concept of demon, especially when he describes black eyes.
		However, what it looks like is one of two things.
		It could have been simply an energy manifestation of, remember, your mind creates your reality, so you can create anything you want.
		Second, if it's assuming this wasn't a dream or hallucination, which doesn't seem to sound like it, the other thing it could be is it could be one of their own guides could be trying to communicate with them.
		You'll notice there was nothing threatening or physically negative done by this entity.
		It was just there staring at them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do people perceive, I guess, as a result of their environmental conditioning, they might perceive it to be a demon or an angel or any number of things?
unidentified		Right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I mean, see, to me, I don't even, like, for example, like, the concept of angels is another one I have a problem with in the sense that I'm not saying there aren't spirit entities that are what you would call angels, but I wouldn't call them angels.
		I would call them masters or guides or a representation of your own superconscious.
		I've never myself had a patient describe a winged entity with a chubby little cheek floating around.
		But they do describe entities that are of energy forms, that are astral bodies, or things that are even beyond that.
		And so therefore, again, we can call them angels just like we can call past, present, and future isolated and think that's a reality.
		But, you know, it's just a matter of there's a lot of things out in the universe energy-wise that we don't label and aren't trained with in our normal educational aspect that we can also call different things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, a lot of calls, little time.
		Toll-free line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Benita Plinemale from Albuquerque.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Albuquerque.
		All right.
		Welcome to the program.
unidentified		Thank you.
		When you were listening to Linda at the beginning of the program, she was telling about the witnesses.
		Yes, on my radio, I couldn't hear you at all.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		It was just beeping.
unidentified		And so we didn't get any of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sorry to hear it.
		I don't know what to tell you about that.
		We'll repeat some portion.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		Too bad she missed that.
		First time caller line.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I was going to ask if she was missing any cattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		My name's Ron from Murray Island, KVI country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Murray Island, all right.
unidentified		I'd like to tell Dr. Goldberg an experience I had in 1976.
		Sure.
		I was in Bisbee, Arizona, and this was late at night, around 11 o'clock, and I was on my way home.
		I was living in a teepee up in Zacadakis Canyon right there.
		And I looked up at the sky and noticed this, it was a half moon, and there was a mass of clouds blowing from the west towards the east, but it wouldn't pass the moon.
		And I thought that was quite unusual.
		So I kept staring at it, figuring something else was going to happen.
		And sure enough, one cloud man burst across the moon, leaving these Gothamer trails behind.
		And then two more followed that.
		And I looked back into the cloud mass, and there was cookie-cutter shaped in the cloud mass.
		And these three running cloud men, which I call them, just went across the moon and over to the east.
		And I was wondering if that had any special significance.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		What you're describing here sounds like more like an energy mist of experience.
		In other words, an energy form that was taking form.
		And when you say it didn't pass over the moon, that's kind of interesting because that's the way the energy would be.
		It would be something you could see through, whereas a cloud would actually block out the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We'll have to hold it there.
		Thank you very much, Color.
		Doctor, hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		We are ruled by the clock.
		We will break here and be back with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		He's my guest.
		His latest book, The Search for Grace, was a CBS movie.
		Hope you caught it.
		If not, maybe in repeats.
		you're listening to the c_b_c_ radio network you're listening to the c_b_c_ radio network This is a pre-recorded, previously broadcast program.
unidentified		Music Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh, toll-free at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-TALK.
		First time callers, 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. on the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From an area just adjacent to Area 51, the high desert.
		This is Dreamland.
		I'm Art Bell.
		And in a moment, I've got a facts here for Dr. Goldberg that I find fascinating, and I bet he will too.
		And we'll get back to him in just a moment.
		Do you have hard water?
		And now, the facts that I wanted to read to Dr. Goldberg.
		Although I have been a meditator for over 30 years, I still have not been able to figure out this recurring enigma.
		Perhaps you can shed some light on it for me.
		Before I go to sleep, my body stays on the bed and I go through my third eye and start shooting out into space where I'm traveling through millions of stars.
		I come to a clearing where it is light, where there is some sort of huge, crystalline appearing structure.
		I go inside the structure and there are many of what I'll call high beings in there.
		It's like a meeting of some kind.
		I am then outside the structure, don't remember what went on inside, although I know I've been inside.
		Then I return to my body and bed.
		Any ideas about this?
		Is my higher mind protecting me from something?
		And if it is, why would I go in the first place?
		From Diane in San Diego area.
		Doc Oldberg, what about that?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, Diane, in the San Diego area, listen on Cogo.
		You have just described my entire practice and life's work.
		What you've done is the third eye area is actually an energy chakra.
		And what you've done is gone through that into an out-of-body experience.
		What you're doing is traveling, what used to be called astral projection or remote viewing now.
		And then you've done a superconscious mind tap where you're accessing your own higher self.
		Then she's gone to the soul plane where you choose in between lives.
		These higher beings she's referring to are actually her masters and guides.
		What she's getting is forbidden knowledge, which is why she can't remember it now.
		And when she comes back into the body, she's perfectly safe, of course, but doesn't remember what she's not supposed to remember.
		But eventually she will get that data when she is ready for it.
		I mean, this is beautiful.
		I hope that you're listening to this, and I hope you give me a call sometime because I'd love to speak to you in person.
		This is a fantastic experience.
		And by the way, you can actually get this experience a lot easier, and you can actually get to a level where you can raise your energy so that you can recall this knowledge and information by using techniques like the out-of-body experience and solar plane ascension.
		So using the tapes would also help you to facilitate that.
		But that is absolutely beautiful and a complete summary and synopsis of everything I represent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, excellent.
		I thought that might fit in.
		From Joel on the Low Desert at K-News, he would like to know, among other things, do animals have souls?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Actually, animal psi, as we call it, is in the research, goes back to Duke University for about 50 years or so.
		Animals have souls.
		The problem with that concept or the difficulty with that old Eastern concept is that animals do not, I repeat, do not reincarnate as humans.
		I have never in 30,000 past life regressions ever regressed a gopher or anybody to a head of letters.
		So everybody, when you're human, you stay human.
		But animals do have their own souls.
		In fact, I've regressed people who have been or seen or contacted their departed animal, cat or dog or others, that have been, in fact, in the process of reincarnating and can perceive some of their past lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll be darned.
		All right.
		One more quick one, then back to the telephones.
		Are all souls the same or are there alien souls?
		In other words, non-human being entities that are encountered?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, technically, if you read Past Lives, Future Lives, you'll see that all the, when I regress people to the original, the first life on the Earth plane, they usually describe themselves as what we call light people, which are extraterrestrial in origin.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Therefore, technically, all of our souls and all of our basic makeup really has an extraterrestrial base to it.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, there's Fritz calling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Fritz, from Phoenix, I believe.
unidentified		That's right.
		Last Friday night, a young man was killed by lightning here in Phoenix.
		We had a very heavy thunderstorm.
		Now, he was walking to his car when the lightning hit him.
		He had a tremendous fear of lightning.
		When a storm was announced, he would park his car very close to the exit door to minimize the distance.
		Now, this man had a premonition that something will happen with, that lightning will happen somewhere in his life.
		Explain this comic incident.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, basically, if he had the premonition of it, I mean, that's a progression.
		That's what people do with, they can be trained to do.
		In my office, when I work with my patients, when they perceive their future, they can perceive actual choices and select it.
		If he perceived that and he decided that that was his fate, remember, you choose your death, he could have also perceived himself to be on a different parallel frequency where he has not died.
		Just because he got hit by lightning and died in this life, and I'm not trying to negate that or to dilute that, it's a serious event, but karmically it isn't because he's living now on other parallel frequencies where maybe he is manifesting his true karmic purpose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, karmically, you could be struck by lightning many times.
unidentified		Right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Karmically, it's your time to go, it's your time to go, but remember, you only die on one or more parallel universes.
		There are others right now where he is still alive in his current life.
		it's a different dimension.
		Just like if you're listening to the radio, and of course you don't do this when you're listening to art, but if you were to change the dial, you'd get a different sound coming in without moving the box just by changing the dial.
		It's a different frequency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so it is with the soul in life.
		All right.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		This is that liberal in Memphis whose liberal ideas are as far up in space as this skies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		When people say that to you, you're spaced out, it's ridiculous.
		How do you respond?
		I mean, after listening to all of this, if he is not convinced or at least curious and still regards it as spaced out comic book stuff, what do you say to somebody?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		What I say is basically, I call what I do, this is my demographic technique.
		When the student is ready, the teacher will be there.
		If this gentleman wants to think of this as being hogwash, whatever he wants to, he's not ready for it, and he's entitled to his opinion.
		I'm a First Amendment activist.
		However, eventually he will die in this life.
		He will reincarnate.
		And while he's in the soul plane, he will then, unfortunately, a little bit late to this life, realize the error of his ways.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So maybe, maybe if he's lucky in the next life, his call will be friendlier.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Or even better, maybe if he sees the light, he'll be a little bit more, shall we say, attuned in this life, and maybe kind of like open up a little bit more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, on the toll-free line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Joyce in Irvine, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Irvine, yes, Joyce.
unidentified		Yes, I'm having a good time listening to the show tonight.
		I had attended one of Dr. Goldberg's seminars at the Whole Life Expo in Los Angeles a couple of years ago, and he took the group through a past life as well as a future life progression.
		And I didn't remember too much about the past life, but the future life progression had a profound effect on me.
		And just the information coming through was very clear, dates.
		And he asked us to get the date and to get our names and the situation that was occurring.
		And the emotional impact, what it brought up applied to the situation that I was in in my present lifetime.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Did you also see the parallel frequencies or the other options?
unidentified		Well, you had us go through the five different frequencies.
		And I did do that.
		And I picked the one that was the highest that I saw as the highest.
		And I can't say that I've really seen a big physical or mental change in this lifetime, just more of a spiritual shift in attitude.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You see, that's the point.
		You say future lives.
		You're really referring to age progression in this life, I assume.
unidentified		No, you had us go into like a future.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		No, I did, but I mean, what you're referring to right now, in order to see a change in this life.
unidentified		In this lifetime, right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		If you're perceiving a future life, then what you're focusing in on is really that future life.
		And yes, you can raise your spirit.
		What you will manifest in this life will be a spiritual uplifting, but you won't necessarily know where you are because you're now focusing in on the future life, not the future of this life, you see?
		Right, right.
		But basically, the techniques that you learned there can be applied also if you want to specify to the current life by using, I don't know if you got one of the age progression tapes or the future life progression tapes.
unidentified		No, I just attended that one seminar.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay, because the progression tape will actually guide you into the future of this life or it's your choice the future life and you can then actually lay out the future of this life not just having to be patient and wait for 100 or 200 years from now to perceive the future.
unidentified		Actually, it was about 1,200 years in the future.
		Really?
		Well, you're getting close to sequester, if you know what I mean.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		The woman who is in the 36th century.
		Well, I listen to Joyce.
		I really, I very much appreciate your call there.
		And for your friends and any of your people that you know there, I'll be doing the whole ass expo in November here.
unidentified		I wanted to ask you, do you do like small group lectures or seminars?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, basically, I do the learning annex class, and I do occasionally, I go out, I do those, but most of the time I don't, because most of my time is spent with my full-time practice here in Los Angeles.
		I don't really do that much public speaking.
		I'm asked to do a lot, but I usually don't do that much.
		But occasionally I will if the spirit moves me and with people like you and your attitude, that usually gets me to be moved a lot more than most.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		There's a big temptation for you.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
		Hi.
unidentified		This is Jody KOH Reno.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jodi.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Dr. Goldberg.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Jody.
unidentified		Could memories of a past life be just memories of a progenitor or ancestor that have passed down through the DNA like physical ability or geneticism?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It's a very good question, and I hear it a lot.
		And we call that the genetic lineage theory, but let me tell you the problem here.
		The problem with the genetic lineage theory is that, number one, Ivy, who has Graced O'Es in a past life, and this was documented by CBS, was not in any way related genetically to Graced O's.
		In fact, about less than one half of 1% of any of the regression I've ever done, has anybody ever stayed in the same family?
		But more importantly, from my undergraduate background in biochemistry, the chromosome or DNA dies or becomes dust when the physical body, there's no way the DNA can reincarnate because it actually, it's like having a cell die.
		This is actually deoxyrebonuclear nucleic acid, but it's actually, it's impossible for the chromosomes to survive death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not a problem.
		In a way it does, though.
		I mean, the DNA is the messenger, but the message survives.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		What the message is, really, what's surviving, though, is the energy.
		See, that's where the soul comes in.
		The soul is like the DNA, only the soul isn't DNA.
		The soul is electromagnetic radiation.
		Again, unless you're hung up on the term DNA, it's not DNA, it's the soul energy that survives.
		That carries the messages, message, as does the DNA in the physical body when you go through fertilization and recreation of a species.
		But to understand, almost all of the regressions that I've ever done, I mean, 99.5%, have been of people of different family lines, which would destroy completely the concept of any genetics.
unidentified		I see.
unidentified		Okay, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes.
		Dr. Goldberg?
		Yes.
		If you are to be reincarnated, how come abortion is considered such a big issue in this country if you're just simply going to be reborn somewhere else?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Abortion is considered a big issue.
		It has nothing to do with really a reincarnation.
		It's a big because it's an issue, as is gun control, as is everything else in the world I can think of.
		It's simply an issue that has been based upon society's mentality.
		Religion has a lot to do with it.
		there is a correlation between this country's belief, which is only 40% of reincarnation, and the theological systems, which do not like to believe in reincarnation, even though it's a part of all religions, because it conflicts with the self-interest of if you believe in reincarnation, what do you need the church for?
		So it's going to be a political issue, or it has nothing to do with the reality of the universe's function.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It might be interesting, though, to ask, is abortion then, Doctor, just sort of another karmic trail, I guess?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It's a good question.
		It's actually a karmic choice.
		If you, let's say that you're about to reincarnate, you've already chosen a body, but now, of course, you would know this in the higher planes, which is why it's a little bit of a mood argument.
		But let's say that, for example, that you chose a body and your mother decides to have an abortion three or four months in the terms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's kind of a karmic crap out, really.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's sort of like, you know, you just go aced out here, okay?
		So what happens?
		Well, the soul is energy.
		It will just simply say, okay, I can't be with that family now.
		You could always reincarnate the next time she has a fetus that maybe isn't abort.
		Or you could just choose a different family and just maybe wait a few years or a few decades.
		The soul cannot be destroyed.
		Once you create energy, you can't either lower it nor can you destroy it.
		It's there for eternity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then, in a lot of ways, if you're trying to give an explanation from your point of view with regard to the legal dilemma on abortion, abortion wouldn't karmically be that great crime that a lot of people from any karmic perspective.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		What's a crime is when people limit themselves and don't empower themselves or become codependent or become nothing but a follower rather than a leader.
		That is a karmic crime because the purpose of being on the earth plane is to raise the energy of the soul to perfection, period.
		Spiritual growth is it.
		It's not accumulating torches.
		It's not accumulating stocks and bonds or becoming president of a corporation.
		It's to grow spiritually.
		And the only way I know to grow spiritually is to associate with a higher energy, which is your super conscious, and to be able to be empowered in all aspects of your life.
		And that is everything we describe when it comes to labels or philosophies or debates or controversial issues.
		Those are not empowerment issues.
		Those are issues of societal mentalities of trying to be controlled or to control others.
		And that purpose of spiritual growth is simply to be empowered.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the tomine, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
		I have a question for you.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		Salt Lake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Salt Lake, you are.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, ma'am.
unidentified		It is.
		Okay.
		Let's get into it first.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		What's your question, ma'am?
unidentified		I've had spirits in my house.
		I've had them for 23 years, and now they're gone.
		They're just gone.
		Where'd they go?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Are you going through bereavement now with these spirits?
unidentified		Oh, no.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, basically, they've gone because they've either solved, they've accomplished their mission, okay, and they've either gone to, they've ascended, perhaps, or they simply just decide to they no longer need to be around that place.
		It maybe has nothing to do with you.
unidentified		Well, someone from the church was here, high up in the church, and he was talking to me.
		He didn't know about this.
		Out of nowhere, he said, you have spirits in your house.
		And he said that I'm a bridge for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe you just did your job, ma'am, and they're gone.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You now are deep-bridged.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so celebrate it.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		The wild card line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Jim in St. Louis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jim.
unidentified		Dr. Goldberg, thanks for coming on the show.
unidentified		First of all, Art, I'd like to, if I may, make one comment, and then I had a couple of questions for your guests.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, good.
unidentified		The comment I'd like to make is, again, thanks for the show Friday Night with John Lear.
		That was the most intense show you've ever done.
		And it seems to fall in line with a lot of what Dr. Goldberg's talking about, the soul being a universal thing that just carried simply by housed by people, whatever, extraterrestrials.
		He touched on that a little bit.
		That was most interesting.
		Okay, the main questions I have for Dr. Goldberg.
		Dr. Goldberg, hey, how's it going?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It's going fine.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And by the way, John Lear is also an engineer, so it's nice to have scientists comment on this rather than some of the people that tend to comment on this too.
unidentified		Right.
		I totally respect John Lear.
		And hearing him talk, I think I believe, I may be one of the minority, but I believe totally that he seems to, he knows something that the rest of us don't know, but although I know that a lot of people think he's a total quack.
		I do have a question for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, do you have a question?
unidentified		Yes, sir, I do.
		My questions are.
		You've been talking a little bit about astral projections.
		How can I, with my girlfriend, sit down and for us to both go through this and to experiment with this?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Very simple.
		What I would suggest you do is call 1-800-527-6248 and let me, my office will be open tomorrow.
		You can give me your full name and address, and I'll be happy to send you a list of the tapes.
		The one that you're looking for is the out-of-body experience tape.
		This is a self-hypnotic tape that you and your girlfriend can use together or separately, and it will train you, it will give you all the techniques to lift out, have a very safe trip, and come back to the body perfectly at ease with memories of what you've experienced.
		And what we call now, we call this actually remote viewing, but it's a very simple technique.
		I mean, it takes a little conditioning, but it's something that is perfectly safe, and you can do it by tape very simply.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And also, the cost of travel is very reasonable.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		There's really an air war going on right now with the out-of-body level choice.
		It's very cheap.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Dr. Goldberg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
		Calling from Gilroy, California.
		sir i've done some research on the um the theory about the druids and the kundalini uh which is a druid uh belief of uh uh an anti-matter body that uh It's not a Druid approach.
		goes back to the ancient Indians, I mean, we're talking like India Indians, many, many, many, like, you know about Anyway, what I was calling about is that they built, they, that as they conquered the Chankras, they built up a solar body that was sort of depicted in the second volume of Martian Chronicles.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Martian Chronicles is a fiction thing by Ray Bradbury.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Did you have a question that's based on non-fiction?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're very good at non-fiction.
unidentified		Okay, the Kendallini, you conquer the Chakras.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You don't conquer Chakras.
		Chakras are anything vortexes.
		You don't conquer them.
		You simply have to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		Well, we're going to have to hold it there.
		He's going on and on.
		Dr. Goldberg, we're out of time.
		Sure.
		It really has been a pleasure.
		Go ahead and give out one more time the number.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the number is 1-800-527-6248.
		The books are Past Lies, Future Lives, which is a Valentine book and is readily available and has been for six years.
		The new book, The Search for Grace, is published by In Print Publishing.
		If you can't get it yet at your local bookstores or malls, you can get it through my office and you can get autographed copies as well as a listing of the various tapes that are involved.
		So you're Southern California people.
		I will be in Marina Del Rey on Saturday, October 1st, and I'll be in November 13th at the Hope Expo at the LA Hilton.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, it is.
		Dr. Goldberg, what a pleasure.
		We will, of course, do it again.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Surely.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Two million.
		Take care.
		Dr. Bruce Goldberg, and I'm sorry, as you know, we are very much ruled by the clock, and I've got to go.
		I've got to go.
		That's all the time there is.
		I'll just remind you, if you would like a copy of this program, I can imagine you would want to archive this.
		The number that you can dial right now is area code 503-664-7966.
		For the staff and management at the network, I'm Mark Bell.
		Good night.
unidentified		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This has been Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped.
		Yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.

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