Art Bell

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Sept. 25, 1994 - Art Bell

01:57:16

Dreamland with Art Bell - Close ET Encounters with Dr. Richard Boylan

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Main voices

19:25

dr richard boylan

01:03:59

linda moulton howe

09:45

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peter davenport

01:13

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to Dreamland.
		Barriers in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not met, and yet seems every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
		This is Dreamland.
unidentified		Good evening, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's Sunday evening.
		Welcome to another Dreamland.
		I'm Art Bell, and there's a bunch of news to catch you up on and a couple of programming notes, and we'll launch as usual with Linda Howe this evening parked in Denver, Colorado.
		First off, I would like to welcome to the Dreamland group, KTUCAM, in Tucson, Arizona.
		KTUC, one of the regular affiliates on the syndicated program, now joining Dreamland.
		Welcome, Tucson.
		And the person who had most to do with that, I guess, Mike Gabrielson, who is the program director at KTUC.
		Good to be in Tucson now with Dreamland.
		Also, WAIVFM, the station manager there, Richard Parker, in Peru, Illinois.
		So Richard, thank you for getting us on in Peru, Illinois.
unidentified		Welcome to those two affiliates, now totaling 75 as Dreamland...
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		That state has had animal mutilations reported since the late 1960s.
		And recently there have been four animals reported to the El Paso and Elbert County Sheriff's Office in Colorado, two counties that had literally hundreds of animal mutilations between the 60s and the 80s.
		And another interesting piece of news while this is going on in Colorado is that the Anchorage Daily newspaper reported on August 29th that 3,000 caribou in the Alaska Peninsula near the community of king salmon have disappeared and that wildlife biologist for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game are puzzled.
		Even many of the caribou had radial callers for scientists to track.
		The newspaper reported that where game experts expected to find a healthy herd of 15,000 to 20,000 caribou this summer, they can find only 12,000.
		At least 3,000 animals, possibly more, are either dead or missing.
		Ken Pitcher, the regional wildlife supervisor, was quoted as saying, quote, we just got kind of smacked between the eyes with this sudden and inexplicable decline.
		We're just kind of struggling with what is going on here.
		A fishing game veterinarian was involved in helping with the radio coloring, and he detected no obvious signs of disease among any of the animals handled by biologists.
		And he said, quote, it's really one of those puzzling things.
		It's a little more mysterious than a, they had a, what they think was, a also sudden disappearance of the herd a few years ago that was never fully explained.
		So that falls in the category, again, of missing animals.
		And then on September 13th, at 4 o'clock in the afternoon, an eyewitness in New Mexico, north of Las Vegas, New Mexico, reported to the local sheriff that he had found a dead and mutilated cow.
		There was another dead cow nearby that was not cut.
		And most astonishing of all, a cow was moving across the pasture on its side with its back moving toward an unusual sound coming from a canyon near the pasture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Moving on its side, Linda?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Moving on its side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By itself?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was nothing.
		I mean, this was the astonishing part of this eyewitness account.
		And you're going to hear this in a moment.
		He's standing there near the mutilated animal and a dead animal nearby, and suddenly one of the cows in the pasture just comes into his view moving toward and with simultaneously with a very odd and loud and tense sound that is coming from a nearby canyon.
		And he has a 30-yard 6 rifle because he's out hunting, as you will hear him explain.
		He's out hunting some bear he has a 30-yard 6, and he ends up trying to shoot at the sound, and this stops the animal moving.
		But it is still a very strange story, as you will hear as I play this excerpt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		And then he went up into the mountain because I was hunting beer.
		I was walking through the canyon.
		And it's about half a mile away from the house.
		And when I came up on my cow, and I saw it rain and hole.
		And it kind of kicked me out.
		And it kept getting closer.
		I saw another cow, but it didn't have a hole.
		It didn't have the mouth in the gate.
		And I was just looking at it, and all of a sudden I heard that noise.
		And the noise can be sounded.
		I've heard it before or you know, when it dates in the middle of the day, about two o'clock in the evening, two or three.
		But it didn't break me, and I didn't think about it.
		And I get recorded, I looked out, and I looked up toward the canyon, but it was the area.
		Like the opposite.
		And the area that I don't have here about a party two months ago.
		And I didn't pay attention, I thought it was somebody blinking, a dark welder, somebody blinking.
		And it sounds like a dark world.
		Sounds like a or something like that.
		But it to me it sounded like a dark world.
		And that's what the first thing that came into my mind.
		And those things came into my mind about that noise.
		And all of a sudden everything like happened, you know, when I heard that noise and all of a sudden I heard the cows that I had passed I was looking up the canyon, I had passed those cows, there were quite a few cows.
		And I looked back because I heard the button of the uh the stamp.
		And I turned around and I saw them all running the opposite direction.
		So when I turned both of it, I turned back to look at the computer, you know, or to look towards where that sound was coming from.
		And as soon as I saw that, I see this cow that was at the other side of the bench.
		And when I saw it, being pulled, it was on the other side of the bench, but it was being pulled right to the top of the brush or right like through the brush.
		And I would see the cow at a good maybe 50 feet being drugged and then making a, uh, uh, it wasn't like, it was like an animal that was being tortured or being, uh, how can I say, I explained it, uh, it wasn't like a regular, you know, moaning of a cow, you know?
		It was like an animal being tortured?
		Yeah, it sounded like, uh, that it was being heard or, or was heard or, like, you were being tortured or something.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Darring.
unidentified		Yeah.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And, now, to get this clear, when you say it's being dragged, do you mean that it's floating off the ground or it's being dragged on the ground?
unidentified		Yeah.
		And it's being, like, just, uh, uh, it wasn't, it was being dragged, not in the air.
		The cow was able to touch the ground with its feet, but sideways, the cow was going sideways.
		Okay, now, when you say sideways, do you mean that it's back?
		Well, it went, the back was going towards the, the, the found part of the cow.
		Okay.
		It might get up, but it couldn't get up.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now, what you mean is it's literally lying on the ground moving sideways.
unidentified		Right.
		Now, did you see tracks on the ground where that animal had been dragged?
		There was no tracks.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And, at that point, he lifted up his.30-06 rifle, he said, maybe out of instinct, and shot at the sound, or shot toward the sound, and the sound stopped, and the animal stopped moving.
unidentified		Wow.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And, at that point, this man was, uh, upset.
		And, he turned around, and he said, you know, he had one thing on his mind, was to get other people out there to take a look at the situation, and to call the sheriff.
		And, he ran back to a trailer where he was camped, made the phone call.
		He said it took him about 15 minutes to get to the trailer, made the call to the sheriff, and to the other people, ran back, and maybe 30 minutes max had elapsed.
		And, when he got back there, he couldn't believe his eyes that the cow that had been being dragged toward the sound, and the other animal that he thought was dead, but not cut, were gone.
		They were not there, anywhere.
		And, the only animal in the pasture was the first mutilated animal that he came across.
		To make this even more mysterious is, when some of the sheriff's and these other people got to the scene, they all looked for signs of the animal that was being dragged, and for the signs of the other animal, and for signs of trouble.
		And, the ground was damp from a recent rain, but as this eyewitness said, it was so strange to him, because he had watched this with his own eyes.
		But, they couldn't find evidence of this.
		It was as if somebody had come along and vacuumed the grass or something, the way he put it, because there should have been some tracks there.
		We have gotten tissue from the animal that was behind, and some other material that we're going to investigate.
		And, in the weeks ahead, I will try to continue to update this story, and for me particularly, after 15 years of trying to...
		to find out what is happening in the animal mutilation mystery and constantly running into what appears to be at least circumstantial links to something non-human, the sound of things like turbines or helicopters or as he's describing here, this Welder's arc torch zoom sound have been reported in the past and things have not been seen in the air.
		And then there are the people who have reported seeing animals going up in beams of light with no sound.
		Any way you cut it, this is an eyewitness report of something that happened recently that does fall into the category of these unusual animal deaths over the last 30-some years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you talk to the man, Linda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How would you judge his credibility?
unidentified		Well, he is a humble carpenter.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		He does not want any, he doesn't want anybody to come and, you know, where he is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He doesn't want to be on hard copy either.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		He does not want to do anything.
		This is his most, you know, an anonymous eyewitness report, which is valid because the newspapers in New Mexico did report this story.
		But he doesn't have anything to gain.
		He very honestly reported it to the sheriff's office and reported it to other people because he was so astonished.
		And further, I have had a veterinarian go and examine the animal.
		And there is, from the standpoint of the vet, the jaw was stripped clean in an unusual fashion, as has been reported in all the unusual deaths.
		And he thought that in and around the jaw area that there was sign of a high heat.
		So again, this is a very puzzling story, but it is consistent with the high strangeness that's been reported in these events in the past.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, there's that incident, and then we've got the stuff going on in New Mexico, and now you're talking about Colorado.
		I have a question for you, Linda.
		Right.
		As we look out over the years of the kinds of things that you investigate, there have been intense periods of activity.
		Are we in one of those now?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I would say that 1989 was at the beginning of what seems like a cycle again, where it was reported many dozens and dozens of cases in Idaho and other places.
		And then as we got into the 90s, there were more mutilations being reported from Canada through more scattered parts of the United States.
		Last year, the whole northeastern Alabama story was so filled with lights, with strange helicopters, with strange sound helicopters, and with mutilations, and people videotaping these odd-moving lights that you had everything that's been reported over the last 35 years concentrated in Alabama.
		But it also included South Dakota and Canada and England and Scandinavian countries and Germany, France in the past two or three years.
		And now this year, it has been, in some ways, we've had some of the highest strangeness mutilation cases because Dr. John Alchiller and I are working on this research grant.
		We're able to work with more veterinarians in pathology labs, and I have tried to report some of the very interesting cases like the Las Vegas and the continuing SAGA in northern New Mexico.
		And in these cases where we've had strange, unexplained excisions of skullbone, for example, with no known way that this could have happened, especially when there was no excision on the outside of the head, these kinds of high strangeness cases have definitely been a part of this year as much as any time.
		And now we've got an eyewitness to a cow literally moving on its side across the pasture toward a very intense sound coming from a canyon but with nothing visible.
		And these are the what makes this phenomenon so hard to investigate because there are pieces of it that a lot of people say, well, it just can't be true.
		But it's been going on for 35 years and how it will continue to evolve for the rest of this year is what I'm going to try to keep up with because there are mutilations that are being reported in a variety of places, not with the intensity of New Mexico and Colorado and other places currently, but it is not confined just to the west.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know that you had planned to be home this weekend, this Sunday, and you are not because it's continuing to go on.
		So off you go on more adventure.
		What about next Sunday?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Wherever I am, I will try to give you an updated report on the Colorado situation.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, what a report.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Linda.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wonderful.
		Talk to you next Sunday.
		That is Linda Howell.
		And she's on the move.
		This is one of those periods of time of high activity, apparently.
		And she's on the move throughout the U.S. West.
		And you just heard fascinating, absolutely fascinating stuff.
		Dr. Richard Boylan, a practicing clinical and research psychologist, specializing in cases of apparent abductions of humans by aliens, has just published a new book that is rocking the usual placid world of ufology.
		Why all of us?
		Well, until now, the predominant view of alien abductions has been that they are traumatic affairs that cause people great psychological harm.
		Not so, says Dr. Boylan.
		By applying his professional expertise to the more than 100 cases of apparent alien abduction, Dr. Boylan concludes that alien abductions may not be a bad thing for most people.
		In fact, he's found that 59% of the experiencers achieve a positive attitude toward the encounters after a brief adjustment period.
		That's almost 6 out of 10.
		In every case studied, persons who exhibited severe trauma related to UFO events were also found to have experienced human-induced trauma that preceded the abduction experience.
		Reliving the trauma of the alien abduction through hypnosis triggered the release of earlier traumatic memories.
		Hypnotists and researchers who are not professionally trained to make such subtle distinctions are quite likely to confuse the trauma from previous human-induced experiences with the trauma from the abduction and consequently reach unsupportable conclusions about the true nature of alien abductions and their effects on humans.
		In a moment, we'll connect with Dr. Boylan taking an exam.
		Dr. Boylan, are you there?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, Art.
unidentified		Hi, and hello to all our listeners out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's good to have you back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We interviewed you, I think, long ago, didn't we, in Area 2000 doing that program?
unidentified		I think that may, yeah, well, it happened.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		We're certainly happy to be back, and certainly have some updated findings to share with everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very briefly, because we've got about a minute, give us a little bit of your background, Doctor.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm a clinical psychologist, and I also do research and some consulting.
		I've got a master's in education, a master's in social work, and a PhD in psychology.
		These degrees are from Fordham, UC Berkeley, and UC Davis.
		I've been a former county mental health director.
		I've been a psychotherapist for 23 years.
		My interest in UFOs stems from 1947 as a little pike about eight years old when Henry Darnold saw his disc over not where near Washington State, and then the Roswell crash made the papers.
		I was a disappointed little pike when the papers came up the next day and say it was a weather balloon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, and we're about at the bottom of the hour, did you believe the recent we lied, here's the real truth, it was a balloon explanation?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		No, and I'll tell you briefly why.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		Well, fine.
		I want to hear that.
		Hold that explanation.
		We'll do it right after the break.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so stay right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Richard Bolan is my guest.
unidentified		close extraterrestrial encounters his book more in a moment From the Kingdom of Nigh, we continue with your calls on Dreamland with Art Bell.
		Call Art Now, toll-free, at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-TALK.
		First time callers, Area Code 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Or the wildcard line at Area Code 702-727-1295.
		727-1295.
		In the 702 area code.
		Now again, here's Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now again, here I am.
		Good evening, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell.
		My guest is Dr. Richard Boylan.
		Dr. Boylan, are you there, Doctor?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You said that you do not believe the recent announcement by the Air Force regarding what happened so long ago, back in 1947.
		Why don't you believe it?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've got three reasons.
		First of all, in 1947, the Army Air Corps Intelligence Office put out a news release on the National Wire Service that they had captured a downed extraterrestrial vehicle and took the vessel and its dead occupants into custody.
		Next day, they issued a retraction saying it was a weather balloon with a radar target dangling from it that fighter pilots would use for target practice.
		Well, subsequent to that, 47 years later, the Air Force, a couple Fridays ago, said that they lied the last 47 years.
		That it wasn't a balloon with a radar target dangling from the bottom of it.
		It was a balloon with a high-altitude particle sniffer hanging from the bottom of it to detect if the Russians had recently set off a nuclear weapons test.
		Now, there's two problems with that.
		Well, three, actually.
		The first one is that several years ago, Air Force General Bose went public and said that we concocted the weather balloon story to cover up the fact that we had to get that disc and those dead bodies out of there.
		We need to buy time.
		We didn't want anybody crawling all over the place, so we put out the weather balloon story.
		The second problem with it is that, as I understand, the Russians did not begin atomic bomb testing until 1949, so it didn't make much sense to be sending up a detector for tests in 1947.
		The third reason is that I have been told by a Central Intelligence Agency agent in Sacramento, who also carries Office of Naval Investigation credentials that I've seen personally for myself, who told me that there were two crashes in New Mexico.
		One, indeed, the Roswell saucer, which they retrieved, and the dead occupants inside, extraterrestrials.
		And another one farther to the west in New Mexico, where, again, the military special unit retrieved the downed UFO and its occupants.
		Only one of them was alive, and this extraterrestrial was taken into custody and detained and lived for several years.
		So those are the three reasons why I don't think the Air Force Balloon Hoax No. 2 has any better of an explanation than Air Force Balloon Hoax No. 1 was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why then, if you look at it from their point of view, Doctor, it's kind of strange that they would bother midway in this giant cover-up, you know, to sort of admit lying and then concoct another very similar story.
		I mean, why even go through all that?
		Why not just let time take care of things and stick with your original story?
		Why bother with all this extra stuff?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Especially with such a pathetic story that most eighth graders could develop a better cover-up story than that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I think there's two things going on here.
		One of which is that the government accounting office, the congressional investigating body, is hot on the trail of Roswell.
		As you know, Congressman Schiff ordered a study to retrieve the documents from the various agencies on the Roswell saucer retrieval, or as he put it more delicately, just what exactly happened at Roswell.
		I have written to my senator, Senator Feinstein in California, and she has graciously responded and joined Congressman Schiff in ordering the GAO investigation, requesting that, I guess, would be the correct phrasing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, Doctor, where does it go from here?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it now close down because of their explanation?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, no, no.
		Let me pursue this.
		So now we've got two, and I understand there's a third congressperson going to join this.
		The GAO, I have gotten Senator Feinenstein was kind enough to send a report from the national, an international security expert for the government accounting office saying that he is now getting full cooperation from the agencies involved.
		And I understand from a usually well-informed source that they've gotten nine feet of documents from a Department of Defense documents catch in the Midwest related to this and are now pouring through those.
		So there's pressure because the truth is going to come out on Roswell if anybody still needs to be convinced.
		The second thing Is that I think what is going on here is an extremely sophisticated disinformation psychological warfare project.
		And here's what I mean by that.
		If you were in the shoes of the cover-up folks in the government on the UFO matter, and if you knew that forces were at work, as they are with the GAO and so forth, and all these witnesses to Roswell, whose depositions have been taken by this Washington, D.C. law firm and all ready to go the minute Congress holds hearings, and people are working on having Congress hold those hearings.
		If you knew that all this excrement was in the fan, so to speak, and it's all going to come tumbling out, then how do you do damage control?
		Well, one of the things you can do is, first of all, get people used to the idea that the government has been lying to them about UFOs.
		And this silly dispatch they put out a couple Fridays ago conditions people by saying we lied for the last 47 years, but here's a better version of what actually happened.
		Number two, by putting such an absurd, almost identical false explanation for the saucer retrieval and the dead extraterrestrial body retrievals out, they are,
		to the average person, beginning to make it very clear that not only has the government lied, but that the government has not been doing a very good job of covering up this with believable alternatives.
		And it's sort of like the story of how you boil a frog.
		You just increase the water temperature one degree at a time, and by the time you reach boiling point, the frog doesn't care because what's one more degree?
		And so the American people, by the time this comes out, they're used to A, the government's been lying to them, and B, that there's pathetic stories that you shouldn't believe, and everybody kind of knows that the government's been covering up this anyway, so that it's more likely to be a big yawn when the final shoe drops.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know about a big yawn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if the final truth was we lied, they were aliens, I'm not sure that's a yawn.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the Gallup polls and other polls have indicated that about half or a little better than half the American population believe UFOs are real.
		And I think if you push the same folks another notch, they'd say the people who are piloting them are real.
		And if you push them another notch, I would imagine the majority of those would say there's certainly a strong likelihood that some of those craft have come down and landed on the ground.
		So I go around the country speaking to people not only at UFO conferences, but in shopping malls, you know, as I talk about my book of bread, and I'm hitting a cross-section of America.
		And I want to tell you, people are not grabbing their hearts and falling over with heart attacks when they get some evidence that UFOs are real.
		Everybody kind of knows.
		You may remember Art a couple of years ago in The New Yorker, there was this wonderful cartoon that showed this couple in their bedroom, and the man is being hauled off by four extraterrestrials out the door, and his wife, who's really kind of nonchalant about the whole thing, is sitting up in bed looking at the TV.
		And her only question to him as he's being hauled off by the four ETs is, do you want me to take Murphy Brown for you so you can see it when you get back?
		You know, in other words, to get that cartoon, the American people have to be so used to the game plan, the drill of how E.T. encounters go that a group shows up, they take you out of the bedroom, you're gone about an hour, and you come back, that they would get that cartoon and get the point behind it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're a psychologist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're suggesting we are being conditioned.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, let me put it a little starkly.
		Here's as stark as I can put it.
		The UFO cover-up is the largest, single, and longest-lasting psychological warfare project in the history of the world.
		The most money has been spent on it, and it has been directed internally at the American public by its own governmental agencies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's stark enough.
		Listen, before we leave Roswell, which we will, you said there was a second crash.
		What can you tell us about that?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Not a whole lot.
		This individual did not go into more detail.
		I kind of put two and two together with what Randall and Schmidt and San Friedman have been researching about rumors of a second crash that went down more or less on the plains of San Agustin near Day Chill, where we now have the National Radio Astronomy Observatory, the largest complex of radio deep space listening dishes in the world and sending dishes.
		That's another story.
		And that there are conflicting reports about said craft, but there are some indications that people saw some activity out that way.
		All I'm saying is that this CIA official who had nothing to gain by pumping additional data in my head volunteered this up when he was trying to infiltrate into my research group.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Infiltrate?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, he wanted to attend meetings that were designed for people who've had E.T. experiences.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		He didn't have one, and I would imagine he was doing it on Uncle Sam's time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
		Fascinating.
		All right.
		You've written a book called Close Extraterrestrial Encounters.
		You've researched, what, about 100 years ago?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, 100 carried cases now plus.
		131 is going to walk in this week.
		And these are ones I've talked to at length, not just quick phone calls or corridor conversations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're a very bright guy with very impressive credentials, and so my question, I think, is meaningful.
		Through all this research, this is sort of a cover statement.
		Have you concluded absolutely, without question, in your own mind, this is real, we are being visited, they are here or have been here or are coming?
		What have you concluded?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, to answer that, we have to go to a couple of levels.
		I'm using in my research the traditional approaches of the behavioral and social sciences, which are to gather a number of cases and look for statistical patterns in them and the causes for those results.
		And this is inductive research for the technical-minded among you.
		And obviously, screening people for psychological normalcy.
		I've had some hoaxers come in, very few.
		I've had some people who were psychologically unbalanced come in, very few.
		I've had a few who, in my opinion, were sent by military intelligence or intelligence agencies anyway, who were trying to sell me a bill of goods that was palpably false, disinformation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, I'm curious.
		It would be very, very important for you to weed out the hoaxers right at the very beginning, or at least during the process, so that you don't end up like a couple of other recent researchers with egg on your face when somebody later comes back and says, guess what?
		I made it all up.
		You know the story of John Mack.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and the Donna Bassett infiltration.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		I've had a couple of those folks who did that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you weed them out?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Over time, they expose themselves.
		Some are obvious.
		You know, I've been at psychological counseling for 23 years, and I can pretty well spot people who are not in good contact with reality or seem overly driven with an exotic agenda that doesn't line up with known facts.
		In a few cases, people who have some other problems going on in their life can pass an E.T. experience on and be somewhat hard to detect for a while because it's hard to tell whether the oddness is coming from the other experiences in their life or from their E.T. experience.
		But soon enough, they trip themselves up because their accounts don't line up with what we are now getting to be a fairly clear profile of how E.T. contacts go.
		They make up just the wrong kinds of little details and elements, and they kind of give themselves away that their story is of human manufacture and not of actual experience.
		Of my research sample, if we may say, last time I took a measurement, 89% of the folks were psychologically sound, normal, upstanding people.
		They include people like a Republican political figure, a business person, somebody who works for the phone company, a housewife, an artist, state workers, and people from all cross-sections of life, media journalists, former intelligence officers, former military officers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I've got to do this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Republican political figure, you can't give us a name, can you?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, no.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		I have saw me as a professional psychologist and my confidentiality rules.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, I had to ask you.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I do not mean he was elected to office, but he very closely works with political affairs to make certain, shall we say, political initiatives and measures move forward with success towards their conclusion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, yes.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		That's probably vague enough to be safe.
		So all cross-sections of life, people who've got everything to lose and nothing to gain from telling false stories.
		First of all, they're coming to a psychologist.
		Some of them have expressed, and all of them probably hold in their heart the fear that I might just slip a butterfly net over them and haul them off to the mental hospital for telling such tall tales.
		But they nevertheless courageously tell it as it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		While we're on that subject, that's very interesting, Doctor.
		I want to ask you this.
		Number one, what percentage of your colleagues do you think would have somebody perhaps hauled off for telling such a story?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's hard to say.
		I have some inkling from some of the people I've talked to, for whom I was not the first mental health professional they've talked to, in, I would say, eight or nine cases at least out of the 130 people that talked to another psychologist,
		psychiatrist, whatever, and got the raised eyebrow or got the fancy explanation about how they were distorting something that there was actually some trauma of childhood that their mind has twisted around or is just a dream or real nervousness and shifting in the chair to where this person got so upset by the uncomfortableness of the therapist that they shut right down and changed the subject.
		They didn't want to push it any farther.
		Maybe they felt the next step was going to be the butterfly net.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly so.
		Doctor, I got a letter this week from a physician back in the Midwest, and I won't go into any more detail than that, but he was concerned, came to me, wrote to me, because he has now had three people come to him with these experiences, and he's just a regular doctor, physician, and doesn't know what to do.
		So I thought I would ask you, what should he do?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I would suggest he buys my book, and the reason for that is one of the chapters was designed to be especially aimed at therapists, and certain doctors kind of fit in that model, particularly in rural areas where it's not easy to get at a therapist.
		Chapter 16, Special Counseling for Experiencers, talks about kind of an approach that any good professionally trained medical person can probably use with some beneficial help.
		I also want to let him and all the others out there know that we've just formed an association for therapists who work with people who've had close extraterrestrial encounters.
		It's called the Academy of Clinical Close Encounter Therapists.
		It has been recognized by the state of California and the federal government as a nonprofit educational organization.
		Dr. Leo Sprinkle is the president.
		Dr. Ronnie Kill, the acting surgeon general of Finland, is vice president.
		I'm the secretary treasurer.
		We have another couple therapists on the board of directors.
		And we have people, therapists starting to pour in their application forms.
		The point of this is to pull together all of these professionals who are sitting out there, psychiatrists, psychologists, mental health specialists, hypnotherapists, social workers, physicians, and others, who are sitting in isolation in towns and villages around this country and indeed around the world,
		scratching their heads, puzzled, because this patient comes in and after they trust him, looks around kind of furtively and says, Doc, you probably won't believe this, but last night there was this individual standing in the corner of my room and all the place was lit up.
		And I went out through the window and the window didn't even bother to open.
		The 1890 went right out through the closed window, pane glass, and on and on, one of these typical accounts.
		All of these poor therapists and medical professionals sitting out here in isolation, we need to come together, be there for each other, pool all the information we're getting in one place, and develop and advance the art of how to rapidly and briefly debrief and help people move rapidly through the strangeness and the scariness and
		the unusualness that they experience to a place of subtleness and resolvedness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doctor, we've got to hold it there.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		Stay right there.
		We'll be back to you.
		Dr. Richard Boyle is my guest.
		more in a moment.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		Talk 102 from the Kingdom of Nine.
		You're here in Greenland with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is a pre-recorded, previously broadcast program.
unidentified		1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
		Or the Wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is Sunday Evening Memes Dreamland.
		My guest is Dr. Richard J. Boylan, Ph.D. clinical psychologist and author of Close Extraterrestrial Encounters.
		And that is indeed what we're talking about.
		We'll get back to him in just a moment.
		To Dr. Richard Boylan.
		And, Doctor, are you there?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of all these 130 now cases that you've studied, is there any case that you would like to take the time to relate to us, you know, to give us some details on, one that you find particularly intriguing?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Sure, and I think I'll stick with one from one of the people who've chosen to go public in the book so that they already understand that it's okay to talk about their case.
		One that really kind of strikes me is a fellow who was a very typical kind of a kid living in a rural area.
		And one day he was outside.
		There was kind of clouds blowing up, and he thought maybe a windstorm or a rainstorm was going to happen.
		His mother called him to come out and see the beautiful clouds.
		His brother and his two brothers and his father were in front of the TV set and didn't choose to move and come out there.
		But he went out with mother to see the sky.
		And then things began to get very strange and different.
		Wind began to swirl.
		Their dog began to act very erratic.
		And he noticed a lead-colored cylinder coming down out of the cloud.
		His mother became frantic at this and called him to come back to her.
		And he, of course, being a curious little boy, kept looking and looking at the cylinder.
		He noticed his mother had a look of dread on her.
		And all of a sudden, the cylinder came down very close to the ground, and there were four beings which floated up a long hill towards his mother and him.
		His mother turned to him in an utter state of fright and screamed for him to run and began to ran herself.
		But the being closed in on her and she kind of froze up and floated her off behind their garage.
		He looked to the left and saw a kind of praying mantis type extraterrestrial figure headed towards him with a long head, a moderate torso, long skinny limbs, long fingers, thin, and a gentle appearance with that kind of characteristic crook to the elbow and the arms and wrists and the legs that make people think of sort of the kind of stick figurish Praying Mantis insect,
		although they're clearly talking about a humanoid extraterrestrial here and not an insect.
		And he put his head at the corner of the house and rubbed his pants.
		He was so scared that the Praying Mantis extraterrestrial grabbed his arm and suddenly felt no longer afraid.
		The being led him across their yard and down the hill to the spaceship which was kind of lead-gray appearance.
		And they got inside the craft and then were put on a metal table and so forth.
		There was a kind of examination with a long white metal tube used as a kind of scanning device right across his body, some other procedures.
		And after this, there was an injection of some liquid put into his spine.
		And then a couple other beings came into this internal room in the UFO.
		They were seated at a bunch of controls.
		He could see out his yard outside the window of this craft.
		They then took out a book and told him this was the Book of Truth, that he had known its contents but had forgotten it.
		It looked like a bunch of kind of Chinese type letters he couldn't understand and very wiggly lines of text.
		But somehow the idea about what the book had to say burst into his head, even though he obviously didn't know how to read this language, and he got that it was about the contents, about the need and the laws of balance in the universe, the love of all living things, dangers coming for the earth, coming changes, and so forth.
		And he was then told that when he reached 33 years of age, which was a long way off for a grade school age boy, that he would have a greater understanding of events and that for now he need not bother to consciously remember this experience.
		He was told a sort of a parting message from the extraterrestrials.
		They took this book of instruction or book of truth and turned it over.
		There's a bright orange symbol that looked like a sun, except it's the rays or arms of fire, if you look coming off the central circle of this sun-like symbol, rotated in a direction to the left, I believe.
		And he was told that you should remember this symbol.
		And then he placed a tool placed in his ear and squeezed and he got a stomach reaction, like some energy of balance had been shifted in his body.
		And then he was left out of the craft and out in the fields.
unidentified		And he went home.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		When he got in there, his entire family, including his mother, were seeing from the television set.
		And even though many hours had gone by since the incident, his mother asked him if he had had fun playing the woods and he said yes.
		And everybody acted as though nothing had happened, even though he was late for dinner and had an unexplained absence.
		When he got done coming out of this experience, all that he consciously remembered as a child was these kind of trash canny looking kinds of metallic vehicles coming out of this turbulent sky and clouds and then walking home late for dinner when we got together and used some hypnosis to remove the block of what happened
		in between, then the rest of the details of this story came tumbling out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old is this man now?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		He is in his mid to late 30s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what occurred to him at 33?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		On his 33rd birthday, nothing happened, but during that year, he began to have dreams of flying through space and reunions with aliens that had visited him when he was 11.
		And he got a deceit message that he should Go, here's where it gets real interesting.
		Go to the mountains, and there would be some answers to his questions.
		He felt the dream was intriguing, but a little silly to drive around in the mountains, waiting for something to happen.
		So he called his older brother, who he'd always been close to, and the older brother told him he had had the same kind of dream, identical dream, the same night.
		And so with the same idea that he should go driving in the mountains, that he would know where to go and that something important would happen.
		So these two brothers kind of embarrassed to admit to each other that they felt a strong impulse to act on this message, so they got in a car and went up into the northern Sierra Foothills in Northern California out of Grass Valley and worked to some of the National Forest Roads, their roads up there.
		And every time they came to a turn, they kind of instinctively knew which fork they should take.
		And sometimes it would be one brother and sometimes another to say turn here, but the other one would instantly agree with them.
		Already had that feeling himself.
		They got to a ridge way up in the mountains with a view of the setting sun.
		And they got out in a clearing and waited a while there while the sun went down.
		And then there's some rustling in the bushes, and they were surrounded by a dozen deer all looking straight at us.
		And his brother, who had had some previous ET experience, knew that he said they're here.
unidentified		And he was referring to extraterrestrials.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		In other words, he didn't think those deer were deer.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		That's not usual deer behavior for a whole herd to come out and surround a couple of humans and keep standing still and stare at us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely not.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		And then after that, they went a little farther up in the clearing, and he got in an open space, you know, between a number of tall pine trees.
		And he began to lift his arms as though he had no control over it, and his body started to float off the ground.
		And yes, what was going on?
		And his brother said you're being initiated.
		His brother had had previous ET contact.
		They were then surrounded by several beings of four feet tall or slightly less size who were dressed in hooded black robes with hoods over their heads so that their faces were in the shadows.
		They put their hands on his body and he immediately was lifted up to the tops of the trees and kind of rotated around up in the air in a kind of a giddy ride, if you will.
		This was a very straight-laced kind of guy.
		It's almost like DGs were telling him, loosen up and kind of go with it.
		He was given some telepathic messages about their version of God, the One.
		He was told they're from a golden planet that's part of a confederation that oversees the spiritual conduct of the universe and that the Earth is in transition and that they're coming to bring us, the Earth, into a family of planets when our gradually increased awareness of other intelligent life universe has come to a point that we can accept that.
		And then he's brought down the ground and speeches went, slipped back into the shadows, and he and his brother got in their car and drove home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then this is the testimony of not one, but three people?
unidentified		Well, him and his brother.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So two people.
		Yeah.
		Wow.
		I'm sure that you looked carefully at these two.
unidentified		How did you judge their credibility to be?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Excellent.
		This fellow is a highly respected international businessman.
		Interestingly enough, has been over to Europe and particularly Russia and is helping them make the transition to democracy and setting up a free enterprise as opposed to a communist form of economic structure, since he has some background in that, has seen his destiny as helping Russia.
		It's sort of like his mission to bring the world community together, his little contribution, and feels very distinctly that this is a direct spin-off of his extraterrestrial encounters and the sense of mission that most experiencers seem to get.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, these messages that the aliens seem to give, gave in the case of both brothers, seem to be almost godlike.
		That is to say, addressing us as a race, telling us what lies ahead, what troubles there may be, what Earth needs to do.
		It's very godlike, isn't it?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wouldn't, with all respect, choose the phrase godlike.
		It is real parapsychological.
		You know, it suggests very strongly, and I've talked to a number of experiencers with similar accounts, including people two or three at a time, multiple witness cases.
		And it's very clear that, first of all, the extraterrestrials are telepathic.
		Number two, that they have some ability at clairvoyance, or perhaps they have some technical devices, maybe even time travel, but one way or the other can see into the future.
		However, it's a probable future.
		Nothing said in concrete.
		Each of us has choices we make, and each choice we make changes the future in one direction or another.
		That they have some ability.
		Obviously, a telekinesis can move things that way.
		They have a number of abilities that some of the most advanced humans, perhaps Zen monks or yoga practitioners or other practitioners of the mental arts or spiritual disciplines, have developed, but are rather rare among average humans.
		But these are rather commonplace among them.
		And they use these for the purpose of going around to different planets, in this case Earth, that are at an earlier stage of development and helping them to make the transition to the awkward stage we're at now where we're just bright enough to be dangerous to ourselves.
		We've stumbled on nuclear power and space travel.
		And we now have instant global communications and extremely powerful space-based weaponry.
		We could either move to the 21st century with an increasing mental and spiritual and cultural development to match our high-tech hardware, or we could blow ourselves up.
		And they would like to see us advance less materialistically, with more mental and spiritual cultural development, more concern for the planet's ecology, more concern for each other, not letting wars of decimation go on, not letting those kind of silent wars of mass famine going on, but come together as a people.
		They want to meet us, but they want to meet us as one human race planet Earth, not a bunch of warring duchies and dukedoms and narrow-minded countries.
		They want to deal with us as earthlings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your message to everybody in your book, and I guess whenever you talk on the subject, is that their visits here are either friendly or at minimum benign, not threatening, not something to be frightened of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You stick by that?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
		It's really fair to anybody who stops to think about it that if they were here for conquest, they could have done that a long time ago.
		And certainly on a military science basis, it would have been smart for them to do it a long time ago.
		There is, in my view, substantial evidence going back into the archaeological record of extraterrestrial contact.
		I think many of your viewers are well aware of a number of researchers and writers who've talked about evidence in primitive cave paintings, rock drawings by ancient people showing people wearing helmets and the ancient traditions of Native Americans in this country,
		particularly Hopi and Zouk, Lakota Zoo traditions of star people coming down, the Aboriginals in Australia having a similar tradition, and so forth around the world.
		Certainly the Mayan high culture of astronomy and numeric sciences and has a tradition of space beings and space beings to come back and so forth.
		So it's real clear that if they wanted to wipe us out, when we were still at the Stone Age, they could come in and dust us, and for that matter, they could do it today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So your view then of their presence is one of custodial care and watching over the human race?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, not so much custodial.
		What I'm touched by, by the extraterrestrials in the main, there may be a few renegades here and there, but the vast, vast, vast majority of them who operate in a loosely confederated way have approached us with a great deal of respect for our intelligence, for our free will, for our right to develop gradually.
		In the modern era, we've seen a program of gradualistic exposure of their presence.
		In 1947, we started seeing some saucers.
		In the 50s, there were reports of UFOs landing, people extraterrestrials getting out and walking around.
		In the 60s, we started having extraterrestrial contacts with humans, studying Barney Hill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're at about a break point here, Doctor.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And, you know, the 70s, we started having close encounters.
		The 80s, we had videotape of them.
		And now in the 90s, all hell is breaking loose.
		We have flats all over the place.
		Right over Sacramento, where I am, but last night there was a slow-moving green light with the colours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, hold it right there for a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back with Dr. Richard Boylan.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
unidentified		This is a pre-recorded, previously broadcast program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It absolutely is.
		I'm Mark Bell, and this is Dreamland on a Sunday evening.
		My guest is Dr. Richard Borland.
		He is a clinical psychologist with extensive credentials.
		His book, Close Extraterrestrial Encounters, Positive Experiences with Mysterious Visitors.
		And yes, we're about to get the telephone lines open.
		So if you want to begin lining up, that's just fine.
		Back to Dr. Richard Berlin.
		Doctor?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening again.
		And what I would like to do, if you're up for it, is open the telephone lines.
		It's not all that frequently these folks get a chance to talk to an expert with your qualifications.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		That's just fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So let us do that.
		Let's see what's out there.
		On the toll-free line, you are on the air with Dr. Boylan.
		Hi.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		You're on the air.
		Where are you calling from?
		San Diego.
		San Diego, okay.
unidentified		What is your P.O. box in Peru?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's post office box 4755.
		4755.
		That's right.
unidentified		And the zip code.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		89041.
unidentified		89051.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, 401, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		401.
unidentified		401.
		Yes.
		Okay.
		That's all I want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you very much for the call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the first-time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Borland.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Okay, one on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you are.
unidentified		Yes, hello.
		Hello.
		Yes.
		I had a question for Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have a guest here, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a question for my guest?
unidentified		Well, I just wanted to, if you would repeat that Friday night thing about the new money and the Federal Reserve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but not right now, sir.
		Sorry about that, Dr. Boland.
		They seem to have other things going here.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Boylan.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello, Ark.
		This is Mark Palicedro listening to you on KQMS.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Reading, yes.
unidentified		Working there in Reading.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I had a question for, is it Dr. Boylan?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Well, I noticed that you talked about some of your patients being in, or clients being in the Grass Valley area.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, taking a ride up there, I've had one of, I don't want to indicate that most of the people I've talked to on this topic have been therapy patients.
		Most of them have come in under my research project, which is a side effort to report their experiences.
		And let me become more familiar with their story.
unidentified		Well, I guess the point I'm coming to is that you said there's been a lot of sightings in the Sacramento area.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And, of course, last year and the year before, there were a lot of sightings in the Clear Lake area, and prior to that, Off-Point Arena.
		I find it interesting that all these sightings seem to sort of, well, centrally located to a lot of those sightings, or at least along the same latitude as Beale Air Force Base, where there has also been an awful lot of activity.
		I've personally seen vehicles that were glowing spherical-type craft coming out of that general area within the past four months.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Now, you talk about at night?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Usually right around quarter of 11 at night.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		What about their glow or their illumination struck you as different than general military aircraft?
unidentified		Well, it was almost like an incandescent bulb floating in the sky rather than a set of landing lights.
unidentified		And this was fairly large things that appeared to be about 50 feet in diameter.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Now, you're talking about light fairly uniformly all the way around the outside skin of this vehicle.
unidentified		Yes, as though the entire skin was lit up.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, or a plasma field just right off the skin.
		Yeah, that's similar to what I've seen at Area 51 and at the Northrop Aerospace Plant near Lancaster, where the U.S. manufactures its own copycat saucers.
		I was up at a National Forest Fire Lookout Station with binoculars up by Roman Lake looking at Beale last must have been six months ago.
		And I saw several lighted vehicles in the sky hovering near Beale, lit up like Christmas tree with different colored lights and drifting ever so slowly up towards those slightly rising hills to the east of Beale's main tarmac.
		But hovering there mostly.
		I don't know if this matches up anything with what you saw.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's gone now, but it certainly sounds similar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The entire vehicle lit up.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, there's some very strange stuff going on at Beale.
		Beale is a highly classified base.
		The cover story is that they used to keep the Blackbird SR-71 reconnaissance spy plane there before they sent them down to Holloman.
		And now they're going back and using the U-2s.
		Well, there are U-2s there, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
		There are strong indications from folks who have seen activity there that the Aurora, the plane that isn't supposed to exist, is being operated out of there.
		And there may be even more classified material going on.
		There are persistent UFO sightings in the general area.
		And it may not be an accident that this space surveillance base that, by way of various technologies, pulls down information from the edge of space about what's going on from that vantage point is also a place of a lot of UFO sightings.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's keep moving.
		A lot of calls, Dr. Toll-Free Line, you're on the air with Dr. Richard Boylan.
		Hi.
		Thank you.
		Turn your radio off, number one, and number two, tell us where are you calling from?
unidentified		Seattle, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seattle.
		All right, go ahead.
		Go ahead, sir.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		In the 7.30 hour, Dr. Boyd, you asked Dr. Boylan a question, you know, I think, are the aliens or the extraterrestrials among us?
		And then he went into a long explanation of what he was going to come by, but he never answered the question.
		So are they here now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was all right.
		That was kind of a composite question.
		I was simply trying to ask you what you have concluded, Doctor.
		In other words, are they really here?
		And so let's get specific.
		Are they here among us on an everyday basis?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		All I can tell you is from my research and from unimpeachable sources that I am in contact with, that's a little tricky question.
		There's no doubt that they are here making, in the sense that extraterrestrials are making physical and intense telepathic communication contacts with human beings every day in great numbers.
		My own personal estimate, based on my work and Robert Durant's research and the Roper poll, which I think exaggerates the count, I've broken it by a factor of four down.
		Using kind of a composite of those sources, I've estimated that there are 3,000 extraterrestrial contacts a day going on in the United States alone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Per day.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Per day.
		And certainly the rest of the world is having its own fair share as well.
		Now, in addition to not all of these are physical showing up where a person is pulled to the side of the road and gets out of the car and meets an individual or somebody pops up in their bedroom.
		Some of these are mental contacts where intense amounts of information are dumped in their head during telepathic communications, often during the night hours.
		Now, in addition to this, there are extraterrestrials who repeated reports used cloaking, or to put it more specifically, disguise their appearance by a kind of mind projection of a visualization of themselves as a rather ordinary-looking human being so that when they walk by you,
		what you see is an ordinary fellow human being dressed conventionally walking by you, but it's actually an extraterrestrial who is convincing your mind that you're seeing a human instead of UET's actual more odd appearance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, I think that addresses the question.
		In the little poop sheet they sent along with your book ad here, it says, the Secretary General of the UN has asked all nations to recognize the reality of UFOs.
		What did he say, and when did he say that?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not familiar with that exact quote.
		The UN took a General Assembly took a resolution some years ago in the late 70s that the phenomenon of UFOs appeared to have enough reality basis that there should be an intense study of it.
		And there's been subsequent effort to get the UN to move ahead on that since then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure that was it then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That sounds about right.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Certain people have talked, highly placed individuals.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to give away privileged conversations, but internationally famous UFO researchers that anybody would recognize instantly have talked with the UN leadership, and it's pretty clear that they're aware of the ET phenomenon and are trying to, in their own way, find a way to deal with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Dr. Richard Boylan.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Phoenix.
unidentified		Phoenix, Henry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Henry.
unidentified		In Phoenix.
unidentified		I wanted to ask our guest here, is he convinced that they have considerable power to influence and to even deceive if they wish and put over whatever information they want to on a telepathic or whatever manner to humanoids?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Yes.
		Are they practicing to deceive, Doctor?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would want to distinguish the two questions, whether they are influencing individual humans and human cultural evolution.
		Yes, certainly they say that they're doing that.
		Individual experiences are experiencing it.
		They're being prompted to take up special projects that are serving the purpose of both bringing out the E.T. reality and moving ahead humanity towards more peaceful and cooperative, less violent ways and getting the ET reality message out.
		Practicing to deceive in the sense of an unnecessary deception just to be crooked or dishonest, I have seen no evidence of that.
		If by deception we're saying that the ETs at time find it useful or necessary, for example, when they're visiting a small child, to create a visualization in the child's mind that the individual in their bedroom is Easter Bunny or Casper the Friendly Ghost or some such, or maybe even a familiar family figure.
		Then if that's deception, then they're doing that, but it's well intended to reduce the shock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or, Doctor, deception in order to cloak the reality of their presence.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, they certainly can do invisibility technology at both the individual and at the craft level.
		In fact, that's part of what bedevils our military is that they have no defense against the extraterrestrials.
		The extraterrestrials can cross into any base.
		They can walk through walls, into a room.
		Security means nothing to them.
		They can take on the appearance of a highly placed Air Force colonel and walk in, and everybody salutes them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, how could the military service then not regard them as a severe national security threat?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		They do indeed, exactly that.
		That is quite clear that the National Security Agency successfully resisted a freedom of information lawsuit to divulge documents that they held about ETs and UFOs, and they said that if we were to release these documents, this would constitute extremely serious damage to the national security of the United States.
		That's code language for it.
		This stuff's above top secret.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when they closed Project Blue Book, I believe the statement was these, whatever they are, pose no threat to national security.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, they pose no threat to the well-being of the United States in the sense that these are not hostile invaders.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		When we talk about national security, I was using it in the sense of the military and intelligence establishment, which is used to being in charge of the running of the affairs of the United States and of the world, being vested by a higher culture and technology that can run circles around them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, do you think their statement then meant no threat to the security of the social structure of the United States or the people of the United States?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Right, there is No danger there.
		In fact, the gradualism, the last 47 years, ETs have very slowly and laboriously, gradually gotten us used to the idea that they're here, that they make contact, what they're about, what they look like, what their communications are,
		that they're about ecological and social balance, respect for individual gradual understanding, the friendly invitation of us to join the larger community of intelligent civilizations out there, if only we'd adopt a little better manners.
		That is a gradualism that shows a lot of respect for us.
		They're definitely not a conquering power, and they're not arrogant in their superiority.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Richard Boylan.
		Good evening.
unidentified		Good evening, Art.
unidentified		This is Greg up in Mountain Harrow, Idaho.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine.
unidentified		I was just wondering, you know, now he's talking about these visitors as extraterrestrial, but how about if they were, what's his opinion as far as maybe transdimensional?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a good question, Doctor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Extraterrestrial, transdimensional visitors from time, what's most likely, or is it a combination thereof?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I prefer the term extraterrestrial because we have the best evidence for that.
		The ETs have said that they're from other planets.
		They've shown a number of experiences when, either in mental communications where they find the individual in their car or their bedroom or wherever, or on board craft.
		They've shown them their home planet.
		In one case, a golden-looking place.
		In another place, a desert kind of planet.
		They've shown their home star system.
		In one case, one race said to one experiencer that we come from four light years away.
		That's certainly not the only place they're coming from.
		So it's pretty clear that BTs perceive themselves as coming from different star systems.
		Now, I do not take particular issue with either the transdimensional nor the time travel explanations.
		I don't think those are alternative in the sense that they're from our future or from our past and that they're just earthlings that have evolved and, let's say, and come from the future.
		Because the ETs indicate that they come from other planet sources.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Plus, with the description you gave us, there would be some pretty nifty tricks of evolution ahead.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
		Now, I think in getting here, given the nature of space-time and the bending thereof to make extensive travel in any kind of reasonable time frame, it may literally be true that the time on the E.T.'s home planet would be different than the time on planet Earth.
		It may or be from their point of view, either in our future or in our past from their home planet's time and vice versa.
		Also, I'm no expert on quantum physics or astrophysics, but the little bit I've read and particularly as applied to these issues suggests that almost any substantial jump across space is going to require sufficient bending, so to speak, of the space-time continuum that it's going to involve more than the standard four dimensions we're used to anyway.
		So the short answer is I think the correct answer may well be all of the above, that they're extraterrestrial, that their time is not our time, and that to get here they had to jump dimensions.
unidentified		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Dr. Richard Boylan.
		Where are you calling from, please?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I'm calling from Seattle, and I've come into the program somewhat late, but I thought I would call to amplify just a bit what you're talking about there.
		I call because I am the relatively new director of the National UFO reporting hotline based in Seattle.
		I took over that position just about 30 days ago, and I just thought I would call to share with you and with your listeners the fact that what has come over this hotline in the last 30 days or so is just nothing short of astonishing.
		And I speak as a relatively experienced bufologist.
		I have taken probably at least four calls in the last 30 days, point of fact, more like the last 15 days, from people who have had, it would appear, if we can believe what they say over the telephone, and in most cases I think we can, appear to have had personal interaction with either ships or beings.
		And I think it's very important to share with the American, your listeners, the American people, the fact that something clearly is going on that our government is not even talking about.
		Thought I'd just call to share that with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate it, and I'm sure you do too, Doctor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's really the same thing you're saying.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		We've had flaps, and it's very interesting, like the Michigan flap over Lake Michigan near the shores of the state of Michigan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		You know, it was all over the Michigan papers, but I was up in Dayton, Ohio last weekend at a UFO conference and asked the audience there how many people heard about the Michigan flap and Ohio touch its borders with Michigan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, we nobody heard of anything.
		Okay, doctor, we've got to pause here.
		Every line is lit.
		Stay right where you are.
		We'll be right back.
		Dr. Richard Boylan is my guest coming up on the hour.
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		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and, of course, one world political order and then one world government?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, first part of the question about the technologies being used to deceive us, there's no question that the least elements within the United States, I'm not sure the government that the Congress and the President are in control of is involved totally here.
		It seems to be compartmented off in some very black operations, but somebody who will not let the National Security Council know who they are has retrieved the saucers, is keeping them, is using the technology.
		We know because another part of that same 92 trip that we talked about in my Area 51 sightings, I saw the place where those craft are made.
		I saw the self-same craft in very brief operational test flights at 3 in the morning above the Northrop secret aerospace facility, a factory buried in the Tachapi Mountains, northwest of Lancaster, California.
		I saw four craft there rise up off a path above the Northrop facility and reach a brief altitude and take about a mile of loop and come back, and they were the same color and the same glow.
		And this time I was closer to them.
		There was no mountain range in the way.
		And I saw that when they landed and the glow came off the skin of the craft, that it went back to a metallic kind of aluminum color.
		And I could see little backlit portholes in the side of the craft.
		So it's very clear that this is a technology that elements within the aerospace industry industry and military intelligence have acquired and mastered to some degree.
		Now, whether this is being used to deceive us, I think the agenda appears to be in the overt world to rapidly advance our military advantage over the rest of the world by stealth and anti-gravitational and propulsion technologies that jump well ahead of where we would have been just by guessing by gosh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, that would certainly do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The establishment, in other words, you don't lean toward the...
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think that.
		I think there is a dark side that would like to use this technology to gain leverage and power.
		I don't know that they're so much interested in New World Order as being the fattest cats on the block.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, that's always been our game.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Richard Boyland.
		Hi.
unidentified		Well, hello to you both.
unidentified		This is Mike Colin from Kapa, listening to 830KHVH here in the island.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wonderful.
unidentified		I just wanted to say to Dr. Boyland, I agree with a lot of what he said.
		I've been in contact myself with an extraterrestrial energy for about a year and a half.
		And some of the things that Dr. Boyland has said, he verifies with me.
		Although he does say that there is another scenario that's very possible, and that one you've just alluded to slightly.
		But to take it a step further, those men, primarily the men of money and oil, the men of power and greed, who see a future where they could be in control in cahoots, if you will, with a dark force or a barbaric race of ETs who haven't yet manifested themselves because they're a little bit at bay, because the benign ETs, the ones that I'm in contact with, are here and they're kind of watching for us.
		But they're afraid that we are not going to grow up and make the jump necessary to get rid of the paradigms of money and theology and politics that control us.
		And if that's the fact, they will withdraw because if we can't grow up and take care of our own planet ourselves and throw off these men who will control us and keep us in fear, they're going to stand back and say, we will not keep you people on the plantation where we are your caretakers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you.
		Doctor, why is it unreasonable to presuppose, after all, for every force on Earth that has the power to do great good, from atomic energy on, there are uses that are beneficial, as in cancer research or treatment, and uses that are horrible, as in dropping bombs and killing millions.
		Why shouldn't we presuppose that ETs, particularly if there are many races, are probably both good and bad?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, we proceed from evidence.
		There does not seem to be evidence of a race-wide set of baddies out there that have demonstrated a track record of evil doing.
		I don't find that.
		I don't find any other professionals that are researching this who find it either.
		What there does appear to be is some limited evidence of a few bad apples in the barrel among E.T.s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, we'll have to pause there.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		Hold on.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Richard Boylan, that's D-O-Y-L-A-N, is my guest.
		We'll be right back.
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		What happened?
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		Back now to Dr. Richard Boylan.
		Doctor, are you there?
unidentified		I am indeed, Art.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, here we go once again.
		First-time caller line.
		You're on the air with Dr. Boylan.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, how are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		Well, gentlemen, I'm talking to you through the miracle of Clear Channel Radio.
unidentified		I'm moving KSTP out of Minneapolis, and I'm about 30 miles east of Dickinson, North Dakota on Highway 94.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wow.
		It is a miracle.
		All right, well, you're on with the doctor.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Listen, I'd like to make one point, and that is that coming up here, I've only seen this promo in a movie theater, and that is for an upcoming Star Trek film entitled First Contact, where supposedly at the end of the film, First Contact is made.
unidentified		And I wanted to ask the doctor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I believe that's going to be with Jody Foster, isn't it?
unidentified		I don't know.
		I think so.
		The first question is, earlier in the conversation, you made reference to the Revelation.
		And I wondered as to your thoughts about the great deception as this relates to the emergence, if you will, of ETs and the announcements that are forthcoming.
		And secondly, in speaking with some of the spiritual people that I and my wife are associated with, they've indicated a spiritual transition in the general population of the world.
		And I wanted your thoughts on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First contact, that motion picture, so many other motion pictures, part of a plan to get us ready?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		I believe there's been a history that certainly is documented back to World War II of the government using the film industry and thematic films to condition the public to everything from patriotism to hatred of the enemy to other purposes.
		There are consistent reports of CIA advisors on the sets of close encounters of the third kind and to help with the storyline there.
		Certainly that the CIA has admitted in recent years that they have plenty of assets within the media and the film industry would certainly be part of that.
		As to the announcement, I think that that is upcoming.
		A source, the former Air Force intelligence officer within the aviary, says that the government is expecting an alien landing in the United States Southwest in the springtime of this coming year within a few miles of federal public land.
		And the source claims that world leaders, including the U.S. President, will be involved and presumably present for the landing.
		And that later in the year, there will be a further series of landings that will get publicity, possibly newspaper or even television photographic coverage worldwide.
		Now, I always have to be a little cautious with this kind of a source because the potential for disinformation is there, and yet the source has been pretty much on the money in the past.
		Let's say for the sake of argument that this leak is accurate, that the government is operating from the perception that they don't have any longer than next springtime before it pops out in the open.
		And this, by the way, is equivalent to the predictions of everything from the Native American shamans and other peoples to what the ETs have told experiencers and what psychics and remote viewers have seen looking ahead into the near future.
		All of them converge on 97 as the big year.
		So if you were sitting in government and you knew that the jig was up by the end of spring 97, you would be putting the pedal to the metal in terms of getting the American people ready for the UFO reality and E.T. presence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Beginning right after the election.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I would expect after November 5, after everybody's won or lost the presidency and the congressional and senate seats and local, all the damage that's been done and all the gains that have been gained are done, that we're going to see a level of disclosure accelerate that's going to make the leaks we've seen this year look pale by comparison.
		And I do not expect that President Clinton's positioning the National Conference on what we should do in space next, given life on Mars, in November after the election, is any coincidence.
		Everything that's been done so far has been very well thought through and carefully, meticulously planned.
		So I think that that may well be one more major shoe-dropping leading to the announcement early this coming year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you expect a great spiritual attending to the second part of this question, a great spiritual change following first contact?
unidentified		Yes, but I already see that happening now.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		I noticed with all the people who attended the Star Knowledge Conference on the reservation in June that there was certainly more of an attending to the spiritual and metaphysical implications of contact with beings from outer space,
		our own coming to our own fullness of awareness of psychic powers, telepathic unity, our common origin as conscious, intelligent, evolved creatures, our familyhood across space.
		All of this sort of spiritual growth and awareness I see permeating the UFO community more and more as I go around to conferences and talk to people.
		And I think that what has been true for those who have taken the time to focus on UFO information will turn true for the general public as they too become exposed to UFO reality by the public media treatment of it in the near future.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Borland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, please?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I'm calling from Ohio.
unidentified		Listen to WMAN and Mansfield.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, okay.
		My question, I have two quick questions for your guest.
		The first one is, are the ETs warning of nuclear explosions and Earth shifting on its axis?
		Okay.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		A number of experiencers have been shown scenarios, telepathically shown scenarios of the future.
		In some of these scenarios, nuclear explosions going off have been featured.
		Now, what is unclear to this researcher anyway is whether the ETs are showing them the absolute future, by golly, that's what's ahead for us, or whether they're showing them the probabilistic future.
		In other words, if you guys don't clean up your act and start treating each other better, that's what's going to happen.
		It's not terribly clear which of those is the case.
		As far as pole shift, I've not seen that specifically shown experiences in these future forecasts by the ETs, but certainly major geophysical calamities, shakings, land subsidence.
		It's not clear whether that might be associated with a pole shift or not, so I can't give you a definitive answer on that second part.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		At what point in time do you think we'll see a widespread alien presence on Earth?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Widespread is a relative term.
		Right now, there's a number of ETs on Earth every day.
		I estimate that there are 3,000 ET close encounters with humans, you know, personal face-to-face daily.
		And probably that's a conservative number.
		Now, if you're talking about open circulation in public and society, I think we will see first open contact next year.
		And I think events will evolve from there, depending on a mutually negotiated degree of readiness by Earth's representatives and the ETs as they work out some kind of safe haven for the ETs to land at and to continue to communicate.
		And as people get more used to them, I think we'll see a natural evolution of people saying, hey, you guys are welcome over in our community.
		Here's a place where you can feel safe.
unidentified		And, you know, it'll spread out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds a lot like the work of CSETI.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, CSETI has started the ball rolling by, you know, sending out the hand of hospitality by way of light signals and levels of telepathic outreach, to which CETs have responded by near-craft flybys.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Getting on the ground and face-to-face, maybe handshake-to-handshake, is the next logical evolution of that, and I think we will see the opening salvos of that next year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Richard Boyler.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm calling from Edmonton, Alberta.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Canada.
		Good.
		Okay.
unidentified		I get you on call by a shortwave and has a strong AM reception.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I just want to give a little bit of background for my question.
		First of all, as you know, Canada and the United States are the world's largest trading partners.
		They're NORAD partners.
		They liberated Europe together.
		And they're probably the countries that work the most closely in the world.
		So I'm wondering with all these frequencies they're talking about being emitted from various places, do you think that Canada and the U.S. would simply share it between themselves, or would they share it with some of the other allies?
		And also, Canada and the United States cooperated quite heavily in the space program, but now they're talking about bringing in Japan, the European Union, and Russia and having five of the major powers working together.
		And I'm wondering what direction you think they're going to take with this.
		And lastly, is there any strategic advantage to the North Magnetic Pole being in Canada?
		Does that have any effect on things?
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Canadian-oriented questions.
unidentified		Doctor?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, as far as sharing, yes, the U.S. and Canada are strong partners.
		I would think the U.S.-U.K.
		is almost as tight a bond.
		But clearly, the sharing of UFO information has gone already beyond that with the USSR now, Russia, and France and Italy and other NATO partners.
		And that will continue and escalate as things break out in the open.
		There's already a worldwide network among the industrialized nations of a joint policy among the intelligence communities, et cetera, of shared UFO information and enforcement of adequate cover-up.
		In terms of cooperation, I think we're going to see a breakout well beyond the U.S. as the global aspects of the ET presence become known.
		It'll be quite clear that the only appropriate response to the ET ambassadors is going to be a group that can speak for Earth and not just make it an American event.
		And I think we will see a demand by all the countries of the world that a worldwide representative group engage the ETs in dialogue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, you haven't plugged your books, and I'm going to make you do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got two books, Extraterrestrial Entertainment.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		We've actually got another one out now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, three books in.
		This is old info.
		Extraterrestrial contact and human responses.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's out of print now, superseded by my newest book, Close Extraterrestrial Encounters, is mainly about my research with ET encounters and what the ETs have done and said with people.
		The newest book is called Labor Journey to the Stars.
		That's just out this year and available from me.
		And if I may, Art, just give a phone number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You may.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		If people want to get either that book or close extraterrestrial encounters, Labor Journey to the Stars or Post Extraterrestrial Encounters, you can call for an order at area 916-455-0120.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		And we'll be happy to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any particular hour that people should call?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, at specific time, if I'm tied up, we'll get back to you with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So this number is coming to you?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Yep, it's coming to my office, and I can fulfill those orders.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, it's area code 916-455-0120.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you ever autograph books for...
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		That's not an extra.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Richard Boylan.
		Hi.
		Hello, Art.
unidentified		This is Bob up in Colomo Country, Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Bob.
unidentified		Hi, I have a question and a suggestion.
		Suggestion first.
		Have you gotten around to having your parts tested for superconductivity themselves?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what, oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're working on that now.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Because along the lines of Dr. Hoagland and...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All the...
		Almost every scientist has said that.
		Right.
unidentified		I was just wondering if you have been being tested, and do you update us on that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing the best I can.
unidentified		I'm sure you are.
		You're doing a great show tonight, by the way.
		Thank you.
		Another question for the doctor is, if these parts have been released as part of a disinformation type of campaign, wouldn't that imply that they are obsolete already and that they're not a danger to anybody?
		But first, in opposition to that, what about, was it Major Dames that said that they were from the future, possibly?
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and let's form a question from that.
		That was said to me that these parts could be part of something that came from another time frame or even dimension.
		Our future.
		What sort of credence do you give to those who discuss the possibility that we are being visited from the future?
		Or another dimension?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, it was a part of disinformation.
unidentified		It's hard to know.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Anything that's put out in the public has probably already been superseded by black budget research and development.
		I would probably agree with the caller on that.
		As for the parts, if they are authentic and if they are off-planet in origin coming from the future from another dimension, people always raise the question about whether the extraterrestrials are merely from other star systems or whether they're from another time, you know, the future of the past, if time jumped or whether they are from other dimensions.
		My answer tends to be all of the above, at least in a minimalist sense.
		Clearly, the ETs have told us repeatedly and shown that they are from other star systems.
		To get here from other star systems involves exceeding the speed of light and clearly as transdimensional travel, so at least in that minimalist sense, they are from other dimensions.
		Given the fact that time is not a standard across the galaxy, but is contingent on the space-time fabric, it's almost guaranteed that the time the ETs are operating from in their home planet and the time we're operating from are not one and the same, and that therefore almost by definition they have to be from at least partially in our future or past.
		And simultaneity would be very difficult to accomplish.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very quickly, time for one last, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcardline, you're on the air with Dr. Richard Boylan.
unidentified		Good evening, Art Richard.
		Say, I'm in Pocatello on panels, Bob, and we are listening to KVEG.
		You know, following up on this idea about disinformation, I mean, I understand it's possible, and of course you don't hear much about it anymore.
		But 20 years ago, the government was experimenting around with high-power pulsed CO2 lasers, and it is possible to create, with known technology, to create these crop circles and things using the infrared radiation at the very high power levels from space.
		And of course, what this woman said brought that to mind.
		It would occur probably in a few milliseconds, and you might see some ionization occur overhead as it came through the ionized layers.
		But to what end?
		I mean, as you look, Brzezinski's book, Between Two Ages, it talks about, you know, the East and the West uniting in the ecological battle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir, I'm afraid we're going to have to hold it there.
		I appreciate the question.
		It really concerns crop circles.
		And, of course, Linda had an incredible piece at the beginning regarding the videotape and the formation of a crop circle in about a second.
		They've got that on videotape, Doctor.
		Any comments on crop circles and the possibility of origin?
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		Well, obviously, whoever's laying down the crop circles is using extreme high technology.
		I could imagine that the U.S. may have back-engineered that technology to a level to affect crops from space, but I cannot imagine the U.S. military using the very subtle and spiritual glyphs and uplifting messages that appear to be embedded both physically and mentally in the crop circle.
		That is just not the military mind at work.
		It appears to be the artistry and high intelligence of a highly developed civilization and not government issues.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pre-contact communication.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		That's my best read on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, it has been an absolute pleasure, and as I said earlier, it's been one heavy show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My friend, thank you, and we will have you back on again.
dr richard boylan ▲ ● ▼		I always enjoy it, Art, and thank you for wonderful hosting here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Dr. Richard Boylan.
		Boy, time goes quickly, doesn't it?
		If you would like a copy of this particular program, and I'll bet you do, you can get it by calling 1-800-917-4278 beginning right now.
		That's this evening's Dreamland at 1-800-917-4278.
		I'm Mark Bell from the high desert.
		Good night.
		This has been Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped.
		Yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
		Please join us again next week at this time for Dreamland.
unidentified		WTAZ, Milton Peoria.
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